[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I think I probably had input because we had some meetings. Part two was primarily drafted at Headquarters, but several Headquarters people would come down, particularly during the working group meetings and things, and we would have discussions about part two and then kind of kick things around. So we were pretty much aware what was going to be in it, but I didn’t get personally involved in putting it down on paper like I did part one with the original draft, no.

[Assistant] Glynn Lunney, we interviewed him, he mentioned in his interview that he was a little concerned at that time about Headquarters coming in after the fact and maybe possibly destroying some of the rapport that had already been built up, and he felt that JSC PAO people were perfectly capable of handling everything. Do you have any specific memories about that issue or that time?

[User] Well, I remember that after we were pretty well into the preparations for the mission, that Headquarters took a lot bigger interest in it and got more heavily involved. I agree with Glynn. I think if it was left up to us, we could have handled it fine. I don’t recall I had any real trepidation that Headquarters was going to mess things up, because they got pretty heavily involved in the TV plans and the photo plans and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Was that more part two?

[User] Yes, yes, particularly the TV plans on part two. But I thought the JSC people, Lunney and Stafford and everybody involved, we handled things pretty well, I thought.

[Assistant] In part one of the plan, the one you were more involved in, how exactly was it decided and signed off that information would be handled?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, because I was over there.

[Assistant] Were the commentators there or here?

[User] No, they were here. I think the Russians had some commentators in their control center. In fact, they may even have had one or two here. But I know they had interpreters here, translators to help the American press go from Russian to English on the Soyuz end of it. But, no, I think we went into Moscow about five days before the mission started and stayed until five days after it ended. So I wasn’t in this news center or doing commentary here for that mission at all.

[Assistant] Those innovations that they had, did we adopt any of those?

[User] No, not really, no. No, I don’t ever recall us providing little individual receivers for our press.

[Assistant] Interesting idea, though.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they were here. I think the Russians had some commentators in their control center. In fact, they may even have had one or two here. But I know they had interpreters here, translators to help the American press go from Russian to English on the Soyuz end of it. But, no, I think we went into Moscow about five days before the mission started and stayed until five days after it ended. So I wasn’t in this news center or doing commentary here for that mission at all.

[Assistant] Those innovations that they had, did we adopt any of those?

[User] No, not really, no. No, I don’t ever recall us providing little individual receivers for our press.

[Assistant] Interesting idea, though.

[User] Yes, it is. But you couldn’t go three or four miles away and receive it; you had to be fairly close to the news center to get it. But they could wander around. You could go to lunch and that sort of thing and still get the air-to-ground. But it was kind of interesting, because once they kind of decided that it might to be to their benefit to do some of this public information, they kind of got into the spirit of it.

[Assistant] Do you feel like it changed the way they handled things after that somewhat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was interesting. It was interesting.

[Assistant] After ASTP there was a period of about six years where there weren’t any flights. What kind of effect did that have on the Public Affairs Office? Were there cuts as far as the number of personnel? What exactly did you do during that time period?

[User] Well, we didn’t have any cuts, but there was also in that time period where we didn’t have any hiring authority either. By normal attrition you’d lose some people. As I recall, there was not any people sitting around and complaining about “I don’t have anything to do,” because we still had a lot to do in preparing for Shuttle and covering the normal day-to-day operation of the Center.\n\n There was always interest in something that was going on at the Center. We were still bringing in new astronauts every once in a while, and the media was interested in that. It wasn’t as frantic or as hectic or as busy as mission periods, but it was not a period that I recall where we really had to go out and scrounge for something to do either.

[Assistant] In ’78 they announced the new class of astronauts, including women and minorities. How did the public react to that, or the press? Was there a lot of interest?

[User] Yes, there was a lot. When we had the first women and the first minorities there, there was a lot of interest in that. Then when we started bringing in payload specialists from other countries and that sort of thing, there was a lot of interest, particularly in their home country, a lot of media interest. We managed to keep busy.

[Assistant] Were you involved in any of the Shuttle approach and landing tests?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, there was a lot. When we had the first women and the first minorities there, there was a lot of interest in that. Then when we started bringing in payload specialists from other countries and that sort of thing, there was a lot of interest, particularly in their home country, a lot of media interest. We managed to keep busy.

[Assistant] Were you involved in any of the Shuttle approach and landing tests?

[User] Yes, I think I did commentary on—I think it was maybe on the second. It’s the one Joe [H.] Engle was involved in, and I don’t remember now who did those. I know Engle did. Did John Young do some of those? We didn’t really have a Shuttle control center set up yet, and it was either the first or second one that I did commentary, and we operated out of what had been sort of the Sim Sup [Simulation Supervisors] area, where they did some of the simulations from. Or it was an area off from the—I don’t know if it was Sim Sup or whether it was the SPAN [Spacecraft Analysis Room]. It may have been the SPAN area, the Spacecraft Analysis Area there. But it was a much smaller room off to one side of the MOCR itself, because they were reconfiguring for Shuttle. But I did do at least one. I remember doing at least one of the manned drop tests, but I don’t recall that I did more than one. We only did two, didn’t we? I can’t remember.

[Assistant] I’m not sure how many. Do you remember? Two.

[User] Yes, and I did one of those. I don’t recall that I did both of them, but I just don’t remember.

[Assistant] In 1981 you became deputy chief of the Media Services Branch. How did your position change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I think I did commentary on—I think it was maybe on the second. It’s the one Joe [H.] Engle was involved in, and I don’t remember now who did those. I know Engle did. Did John Young do some of those? We didn’t really have a Shuttle control center set up yet, and it was either the first or second one that I did commentary, and we operated out of what had been sort of the Sim Sup [Simulation Supervisors] area, where they did some of the simulations from. Or it was an area off from the—I don’t know if it was Sim Sup or whether it was the SPAN [Spacecraft Analysis Room]. It may have been the SPAN area, the Spacecraft Analysis Area there. But it was a much smaller room off to one side of the MOCR itself, because they were reconfiguring for Shuttle. But I did do at least one. I remember doing at least one of the manned drop tests, but I don’t recall that I did more than one. We only did two, didn’t we? I can’t remember.

[Assistant] I’m not sure how many. Do you remember? Two.

[User] Yes, and I did one of those. I don’t recall that I did both of them, but I just don’t remember.

[Assistant] In 1981 you became deputy chief of the Media Services Branch. How did your position change?

[User] Only the title changed, because prior to that I had had several—in fact, I’d had that same title before I went upstairs to the administrative assistant, and prior to that I was in some title, like news operations manager or something. But the job never did change; just the titles changed. So that was all that changed. It was after that, ’81, when I came back down, that’s when we did the training program for the neophytes. So that was a little different than stuff I had been doing, but I still did a lot of the same stuff I had done.

[Assistant] You were still doing some commentary on the early—did you do it on the first flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and I did one of those. I don’t recall that I did both of them, but I just don’t remember.

[Assistant] In 1981 you became deputy chief of the Media Services Branch. How did your position change?

[User] Only the title changed, because prior to that I had had several—in fact, I’d had that same title before I went upstairs to the administrative assistant, and prior to that I was in some title, like news operations manager or something. But the job never did change; just the titles changed. So that was all that changed. It was after that, ’81, when I came back down, that’s when we did the training program for the neophytes. So that was a little different than stuff I had been doing, but I still did a lot of the same stuff I had done.

[Assistant] You were still doing some commentary on the early—did you do it on the first flight?

[User] The first Shuttle flight?

[Assistant] Yes, the first Shuttle flight.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Only the title changed, because prior to that I had had several—in fact, I’d had that same title before I went upstairs to the administrative assistant, and prior to that I was in some title, like news operations manager or something. But the job never did change; just the titles changed. So that was all that changed. It was after that, ’81, when I came back down, that’s when we did the training program for the neophytes. So that was a little different than stuff I had been doing, but I still did a lot of the same stuff I had done.

[Assistant] You were still doing some commentary on the early—did you do it on the first flight?

[User] The first Shuttle flight?

[Assistant] Yes, the first Shuttle flight.

[User] To tell you the truth, I don’t remember. We got to flying so many things, so many of them, and I did do a number of the Shuttle ones early on, but I couldn’t tell you which ones I did and which I didn’t. I don’t know.

[Assistant] As you mentioned earlier when we first talked about the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident, the public interest, of course, and the way things were handled, it was a little different than what the plan had called for. But obviously there was a lot of public interest before the flight ever took off because of the teacher in space and then some of the other things that we’re talking about, as a journalist in space. Do you want to talk about that for a minute, let us know what you remember about that period?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The first Shuttle flight?

[Assistant] Yes, the first Shuttle flight.

[User] To tell you the truth, I don’t remember. We got to flying so many things, so many of them, and I did do a number of the Shuttle ones early on, but I couldn’t tell you which ones I did and which I didn’t. I don’t know.

[Assistant] As you mentioned earlier when we first talked about the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident, the public interest, of course, and the way things were handled, it was a little different than what the plan had called for. But obviously there was a lot of public interest before the flight ever took off because of the teacher in space and then some of the other things that we’re talking about, as a journalist in space. Do you want to talk about that for a minute, let us know what you remember about that period?

[User] Well, yes, there was an extraordinary amount of interest in the teacher in space. In fact, all during the time she was here, she and her backup, Barbara [R.] Morgan, were here during the training, we got a lot of interest from media.\n\n When it looked like they were going to fly a newsman in space, why, things got very interesting. It got as far as people submitted their applications, and they were down to the point where they were going to probably make a selection. Of course, the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident kind of blew that out of the water. But a lot of news guys had applied, particularly a lot of them that had been covering the program for years. So there was a lot of interest in that phase of it, but it just kind of fizzled out. I’m surprised they haven’t mounted another campaign in the last few years. I don’t know where that stands.

[Assistant] Of course, then things changed again after the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident, and slowed down for a little bit as far as flights were concerned. Then in ’87 you became the chief of the Media Services Branch.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To tell you the truth, I don’t remember. We got to flying so many things, so many of them, and I did do a number of the Shuttle ones early on, but I couldn’t tell you which ones I did and which I didn’t. I don’t know.

[Assistant] As you mentioned earlier when we first talked about the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident, the public interest, of course, and the way things were handled, it was a little different than what the plan had called for. But obviously there was a lot of public interest before the flight ever took off because of the teacher in space and then some of the other things that we’re talking about, as a journalist in space. Do you want to talk about that for a minute, let us know what you remember about that period?

[User] Well, yes, there was an extraordinary amount of interest in the teacher in space. In fact, all during the time she was here, she and her backup, Barbara [R.] Morgan, were here during the training, we got a lot of interest from media.\n\n When it looked like they were going to fly a newsman in space, why, things got very interesting. It got as far as people submitted their applications, and they were down to the point where they were going to probably make a selection. Of course, the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident kind of blew that out of the water. But a lot of news guys had applied, particularly a lot of them that had been covering the program for years. So there was a lot of interest in that phase of it, but it just kind of fizzled out. I’m surprised they haven’t mounted another campaign in the last few years. I don’t know where that stands.

[Assistant] Of course, then things changed again after the\n\n Challenger\n\n accident, and slowed down for a little bit as far as flights were concerned. Then in ’87 you became the chief of the Media Services Branch.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did your job change any at this time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The last day of ’92, yes.

[Assistant] Did you have any particular reason for retiring then, or just the right time?

[User] I was getting old. [Laughter] And, frankly, I wasn’t having as much fun as I had been, and NASA was going through some changes, Headquarters and senior management here. Of course, I was very attuned to working with directors like Kraft and [Aaron] Cohen, and these were guys that I had worked with for years, because they’d come up through either the program office or the flight operations there, flight directors and that sort of thing, and I knew them well.\n\n But a couple of years before I retired there, we must have gone through four or five Assistant Administrators for Public Affairs at Headquarters. It seemed that they would last for a year or two, and then somebody else new, and they all had different ideas. Like I say, I’d been there a few months of thirty years, and I had about four years in the navy that counted toward retirement. I was getting up pretty—I was about almost sixty-eight when I retired, I guess, because I was thirty-eight when I went to work for NASA. I’d gone through the fun times, and I was ready to retire, ready to quit and play golf.

[Assistant] Yes, enjoy yourself.

[User] Yes, that’s right. Travel some, so that’s I did.

[Assistant] Well, before we wrap it up, I want to ask Rebecca and Jennifer, if you don’t mind, if they have any questions.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was getting old. [Laughter] And, frankly, I wasn’t having as much fun as I had been, and NASA was going through some changes, Headquarters and senior management here. Of course, I was very attuned to working with directors like Kraft and [Aaron] Cohen, and these were guys that I had worked with for years, because they’d come up through either the program office or the flight operations there, flight directors and that sort of thing, and I knew them well.\n\n But a couple of years before I retired there, we must have gone through four or five Assistant Administrators for Public Affairs at Headquarters. It seemed that they would last for a year or two, and then somebody else new, and they all had different ideas. Like I say, I’d been there a few months of thirty years, and I had about four years in the navy that counted toward retirement. I was getting up pretty—I was about almost sixty-eight when I retired, I guess, because I was thirty-eight when I went to work for NASA. I’d gone through the fun times, and I was ready to retire, ready to quit and play golf.

[Assistant] Yes, enjoy yourself.

[User] Yes, that’s right. Travel some, so that’s I did.

[Assistant] Well, before we wrap it up, I want to ask Rebecca and Jennifer, if you don’t mind, if they have any questions.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant]
Okay. Rebecca?

I have a couple of brief ones. Those early days, when you were writing the news releases, when you were first here at JSC, was there an approval process before you could submit those to the press?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that’s right. Travel some, so that’s I did.

[Assistant] Well, before we wrap it up, I want to ask Rebecca and Jennifer, if you don’t mind, if they have any questions.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant]
Okay. Rebecca?

I have a couple of brief ones. Those early days, when you were writing the news releases, when you were first here at JSC, was there an approval process before you could submit those to the press?

[User] Oh, yes. Yes, it had to be approved by the program manager. Whatever you were writing about, they wanted to approve, but that was usually no problem because that’s who you got the information from to begin with. But there was an approval process, yes.

[Assistant] When you talked about the pool, the press pool that began after Apollo 13, Roy Neal was the first—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant]
Okay. Rebecca?

I have a couple of brief ones. Those early days, when you were writing the news releases, when you were first here at JSC, was there an approval process before you could submit those to the press?

[User] Oh, yes. Yes, it had to be approved by the program manager. Whatever you were writing about, they wanted to approve, but that was usually no problem because that’s who you got the information from to begin with. But there was an approval process, yes.

[Assistant] When you talked about the pool, the press pool that began after Apollo 13, Roy Neal was the first—

[User] Well, we’d had pools. There’d been press pools before that, but not in the control center.

[Assistant] Who determined the rotation of who went in and went out? Did you leave that to the press?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Yes, it had to be approved by the program manager. Whatever you were writing about, they wanted to approve, but that was usually no problem because that’s who you got the information from to begin with. But there was an approval process, yes.

[Assistant] When you talked about the pool, the press pool that began after Apollo 13, Roy Neal was the first—

[User] Well, we’d had pools. There’d been press pools before that, but not in the control center.

[Assistant] Who determined the rotation of who went in and went out? Did you leave that to the press?

[User] Yes, it was up to them. We didn’t try to tell them. We said, “You tell us who you want, and this is the time periods, and tell us who’s going to be here at each one of the—.” No, we left it up to them.

[Assistant] And contingency plans, was there one for Apollo 11 for PAO in case there was a problem?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we’d had pools. There’d been press pools before that, but not in the control center.

[Assistant] Who determined the rotation of who went in and went out? Did you leave that to the press?

[User] Yes, it was up to them. We didn’t try to tell them. We said, “You tell us who you want, and this is the time periods, and tell us who’s going to be here at each one of the—.” No, we left it up to them.

[Assistant] And contingency plans, was there one for Apollo 11 for PAO in case there was a problem?

[User] Yes, there was one for every mission, and a lot of it was the same, kind of boilerplate. But if there were any unique things about the mission, why, you had to include that. Like, one of the missions, I can’t remember which one, we flew a radioactive something or other. It was to power one of the lunar surface experiments.

[Assistant] Was it Apollo 13, where it had to come back? Is that the one?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was up to them. We didn’t try to tell them. We said, “You tell us who you want, and this is the time periods, and tell us who’s going to be here at each one of the—.” No, we left it up to them.

[Assistant] And contingency plans, was there one for Apollo 11 for PAO in case there was a problem?

[User] Yes, there was one for every mission, and a lot of it was the same, kind of boilerplate. But if there were any unique things about the mission, why, you had to include that. Like, one of the missions, I can’t remember which one, we flew a radioactive something or other. It was to power one of the lunar surface experiments.

[Assistant] Was it Apollo 13, where it had to come back? Is that the one?

[User] No, I don’t think it was 13. I don’t remember which one it was, but it was a scientific experiment that utilized some kind of radioactive source for power. There was a lot of people concerned that “Well, what if something happens on launch, like what happened to the\n\n Challenger\n\n ?” What will be the problems that this will cause to people in the launch area?\n\n So if there were unique kind of things like that, they were addressed in the contingency plan, but a lot of it was the same each time, because you’d go through the same powered phase and that sort of thing. But it was updated for every mission, yes.

[Assistant]
Jennifer?

I have a questions for you as well. The Oral History Project recently interviewed John McLeaish, and he talked about promoting products like Tang for companies. Did you ever do anything like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, there was one for every mission, and a lot of it was the same, kind of boilerplate. But if there were any unique things about the mission, why, you had to include that. Like, one of the missions, I can’t remember which one, we flew a radioactive something or other. It was to power one of the lunar surface experiments.

[Assistant] Was it Apollo 13, where it had to come back? Is that the one?

[User] No, I don’t think it was 13. I don’t remember which one it was, but it was a scientific experiment that utilized some kind of radioactive source for power. There was a lot of people concerned that “Well, what if something happens on launch, like what happened to the\n\n Challenger\n\n ?” What will be the problems that this will cause to people in the launch area?\n\n So if there were unique kind of things like that, they were addressed in the contingency plan, but a lot of it was the same each time, because you’d go through the same powered phase and that sort of thing. But it was updated for every mission, yes.

[Assistant]
Jennifer?

I have a questions for you as well. The Oral History Project recently interviewed John McLeaish, and he talked about promoting products like Tang for companies. Did you ever do anything like that?

[User] Never did promote them personally. We got involved, John and I and several other people. Those companies had to submit what they wanted to do, to our office for approval. So I got involved in that sense, but I don’t think any of us ever personally went out and promoted products. It was more of approving or disapproving what they wanted to do with their product.

[Assistant] So in terms of advertising per se?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] '68.

[Assistant] 1968 forward. And you are?

[User] Ellen Shively.

[Assistant] OK. We usually start by going back to the time just before you joined the Peace Corps and then bring it up to joining.

[User] OK.

[Assistant] And if you want, you can put in a little bit of your family background and so forth, where you grew up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ellen Shively.

[Assistant] OK. We usually start by going back to the time just before you joined the Peace Corps and then bring it up to joining.

[User] OK.

[Assistant] And if you want, you can put in a little bit of your family background and so forth, where you grew up.

[User] Well, I'm a, I live in San Diego, California, and I grew up in a Navy family. My mother is a native here in San Diego and married a sailor. And I myself am a registered nurse, graduated from Florida State University. And when I was at Florida State, I joined the Army Student Nurse program and went into the Army for six and a half years as a nurse. At the end of six and a half years of active duty, I'd been stationed in Okinawa and we were getting a lot of casualties in from the Vietnam War, and I was reading the Stars and Stripes about the public outcry against being in Vietnam. And so I became disillusioned with the Army and decided to get out.

[Assistant] OK. You were essentially a ward nurse during that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] OK.

[Assistant] And if you want, you can put in a little bit of your family background and so forth, where you grew up.

[User] Well, I'm a, I live in San Diego, California, and I grew up in a Navy family. My mother is a native here in San Diego and married a sailor. And I myself am a registered nurse, graduated from Florida State University. And when I was at Florida State, I joined the Army Student Nurse program and went into the Army for six and a half years as a nurse. At the end of six and a half years of active duty, I'd been stationed in Okinawa and we were getting a lot of casualties in from the Vietnam War, and I was reading the Stars and Stripes about the public outcry against being in Vietnam. And so I became disillusioned with the Army and decided to get out.

[Assistant] OK. You were essentially a ward nurse during that time?

[User] Yes, a medical surgical nurse.

[Assistant] What originally got you into nursing? Any experiences in high school? Or had you done any travel, any volunteer work or anything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I'm a, I live in San Diego, California, and I grew up in a Navy family. My mother is a native here in San Diego and married a sailor. And I myself am a registered nurse, graduated from Florida State University. And when I was at Florida State, I joined the Army Student Nurse program and went into the Army for six and a half years as a nurse. At the end of six and a half years of active duty, I'd been stationed in Okinawa and we were getting a lot of casualties in from the Vietnam War, and I was reading the Stars and Stripes about the public outcry against being in Vietnam. And so I became disillusioned with the Army and decided to get out.

[Assistant] OK. You were essentially a ward nurse during that time?

[User] Yes, a medical surgical nurse.

[Assistant] What originally got you into nursing? Any experiences in high school? Or had you done any travel, any volunteer work or anything?

[User] Well, I had done some travel and liked the military and we were stationed as a family with the Navy, my dad being in the Navy in Japan. And some of my friends' fathers were doctors, Army doctors, and we had an Army nurse at our high school. So I wasn't prone to being ill, but I started in college as a PE major. But at Florida State they had a very strong nursing program. And I'd grown up Southern Baptist and I thought, well that's, maybe I'll be a medical missionary. So I went over to the nursing school one day and introduced myself, and she told me how to enroll.

[Assistant] How long did you live in Japan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, a medical surgical nurse.

[Assistant] What originally got you into nursing? Any experiences in high school? Or had you done any travel, any volunteer work or anything?

[User] Well, I had done some travel and liked the military and we were stationed as a family with the Navy, my dad being in the Navy in Japan. And some of my friends' fathers were doctors, Army doctors, and we had an Army nurse at our high school. So I wasn't prone to being ill, but I started in college as a PE major. But at Florida State they had a very strong nursing program. And I'd grown up Southern Baptist and I thought, well that's, maybe I'll be a medical missionary. So I went over to the nursing school one day and introduced myself, and she told me how to enroll.

[Assistant] How long did you live in Japan?

[User] Two years.

[Assistant] And how old were you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I had done some travel and liked the military and we were stationed as a family with the Navy, my dad being in the Navy in Japan. And some of my friends' fathers were doctors, Army doctors, and we had an Army nurse at our high school. So I wasn't prone to being ill, but I started in college as a PE major. But at Florida State they had a very strong nursing program. And I'd grown up Southern Baptist and I thought, well that's, maybe I'll be a medical missionary. So I went over to the nursing school one day and introduced myself, and she told me how to enroll.

[Assistant] How long did you live in Japan?

[User] Two years.

[Assistant] And how old were you?

[User] I was in high school. I was a sophomore and a junior. From '50 to '53 I think were the actual, well, years.

[Assistant] But that was a completely a Department of Defense school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two years.

[Assistant] And how old were you?

[User] I was in high school. I was a sophomore and a junior. From '50 to '53 I think were the actual, well, years.

[Assistant] But that was a completely a Department of Defense school.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So there weren't Japanese students.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was in high school. I was a sophomore and a junior. From '50 to '53 I think were the actual, well, years.

[Assistant] But that was a completely a Department of Defense school.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So there weren't Japanese students.

[User] No, no. It's Yokohama American High School.

[Assistant] Did you have any contact at that time with Japan, Japanese culture? Any sense of, you know, that some other part of the world that wasn't American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So there weren't Japanese students.

[User] No, no. It's Yokohama American High School.

[Assistant] Did you have any contact at that time with Japan, Japanese culture? Any sense of, you know, that some other part of the world that wasn't American?

[User] Yeah, we lived on the economy for, I'd say, the first six or eight months that we lived in Japan and we took trips as a family and a couple of student trips to various places. Went up to Tokyo, went down to Atami, Kamakura, where the great lying Buddha is. The church group at the base climbed Mount Fujiyama. So that was a good weekend experience. Everybody took the trains in Japan, so I think we didn't have TV. So we spent, uh, weekends poking around Yokohama.

[Assistant] Did you have Japanese friends?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. It's Yokohama American High School.

[Assistant] Did you have any contact at that time with Japan, Japanese culture? Any sense of, you know, that some other part of the world that wasn't American?

[User] Yeah, we lived on the economy for, I'd say, the first six or eight months that we lived in Japan and we took trips as a family and a couple of student trips to various places. Went up to Tokyo, went down to Atami, Kamakura, where the great lying Buddha is. The church group at the base climbed Mount Fujiyama. So that was a good weekend experience. Everybody took the trains in Japan, so I think we didn't have TV. So we spent, uh, weekends poking around Yokohama.

[Assistant] Did you have Japanese friends?

[User] Yes. My family cultivated the friendship with a young man. His name was Kenji. And they corresponded with Kenji in subsequent years. And we would go on trips with Kenji and see his friends and where he worked and spent some time going to Japanese restaurants with him.

[Assistant] Let's stop for just a moment. [tape break] We're talking about your time in Japan and then from Japan, you came back to San Diego? Or were you then college age and you went on to Florida?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we lived on the economy for, I'd say, the first six or eight months that we lived in Japan and we took trips as a family and a couple of student trips to various places. Went up to Tokyo, went down to Atami, Kamakura, where the great lying Buddha is. The church group at the base climbed Mount Fujiyama. So that was a good weekend experience. Everybody took the trains in Japan, so I think we didn't have TV. So we spent, uh, weekends poking around Yokohama.

[Assistant] Did you have Japanese friends?

[User] Yes. My family cultivated the friendship with a young man. His name was Kenji. And they corresponded with Kenji in subsequent years. And we would go on trips with Kenji and see his friends and where he worked and spent some time going to Japanese restaurants with him.

[Assistant] Let's stop for just a moment. [tape break] We're talking about your time in Japan and then from Japan, you came back to San Diego? Or were you then college age and you went on to Florida?

[User] Let's see. From Japan, we came to California. And I did my high school here in San Diego. Lincoln High School. And then my dad got transferred to Florida, and that's how I ended up at Florida State University. I did actually a year at San Diego State. And then I transferred to Florida State.

[Assistant] Did you learn Spanish at all while living in San Diego?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. My family cultivated the friendship with a young man. His name was Kenji. And they corresponded with Kenji in subsequent years. And we would go on trips with Kenji and see his friends and where he worked and spent some time going to Japanese restaurants with him.

[Assistant] Let's stop for just a moment. [tape break] We're talking about your time in Japan and then from Japan, you came back to San Diego? Or were you then college age and you went on to Florida?

[User] Let's see. From Japan, we came to California. And I did my high school here in San Diego. Lincoln High School. And then my dad got transferred to Florida, and that's how I ended up at Florida State University. I did actually a year at San Diego State. And then I transferred to Florida State.

[Assistant] Did you learn Spanish at all while living in San Diego?

[User] No, not at the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you became a nurse, went to Okinawa. Do you recall anything about Peace Corps or Kennedy during the sixties? I mean, you were in Okinawa then I suppose.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let's see. From Japan, we came to California. And I did my high school here in San Diego. Lincoln High School. And then my dad got transferred to Florida, and that's how I ended up at Florida State University. I did actually a year at San Diego State. And then I transferred to Florida State.

[Assistant] Did you learn Spanish at all while living in San Diego?

[User] No, not at the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you became a nurse, went to Okinawa. Do you recall anything about Peace Corps or Kennedy during the sixties? I mean, you were in Okinawa then I suppose.

[User] I would have, let's see. If it was 1961, I would have been graduating from college. My immediate assignments were in North Carolina, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And then I went to Hawaii, which is where I was born, for duty. I went to the same hospital that I'd been born in, Tripler Army Medical Center, and I did duty there. I actually was a public health nurse, Army health nurse. So I was stationed out at Schofield Barracks. And we had had friends, family friends from the past, that I reacquainted myself with and some local Chinese American Hawaiian people. So Hawaii was really a lovely assignment, but from Hawaii, I went to Okinawa and that was where the war was escalating, in my opinion. As far as the Peace Corps goes, being in the Army, I think I knew there was a Peace Corps, but I didn't know much about it.

[Assistant] Well, the beginning and the excitement of the early '60s sort of, were you aware of it I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not at the time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you became a nurse, went to Okinawa. Do you recall anything about Peace Corps or Kennedy during the sixties? I mean, you were in Okinawa then I suppose.

[User] I would have, let's see. If it was 1961, I would have been graduating from college. My immediate assignments were in North Carolina, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And then I went to Hawaii, which is where I was born, for duty. I went to the same hospital that I'd been born in, Tripler Army Medical Center, and I did duty there. I actually was a public health nurse, Army health nurse. So I was stationed out at Schofield Barracks. And we had had friends, family friends from the past, that I reacquainted myself with and some local Chinese American Hawaiian people. So Hawaii was really a lovely assignment, but from Hawaii, I went to Okinawa and that was where the war was escalating, in my opinion. As far as the Peace Corps goes, being in the Army, I think I knew there was a Peace Corps, but I didn't know much about it.

[Assistant] Well, the beginning and the excitement of the early '60s sort of, were you aware of it I mean?

[User] Peripherally.

[Assistant] And Kennedy's message of, you know, ask not.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would have, let's see. If it was 1961, I would have been graduating from college. My immediate assignments were in North Carolina, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And then I went to Hawaii, which is where I was born, for duty. I went to the same hospital that I'd been born in, Tripler Army Medical Center, and I did duty there. I actually was a public health nurse, Army health nurse. So I was stationed out at Schofield Barracks. And we had had friends, family friends from the past, that I reacquainted myself with and some local Chinese American Hawaiian people. So Hawaii was really a lovely assignment, but from Hawaii, I went to Okinawa and that was where the war was escalating, in my opinion. As far as the Peace Corps goes, being in the Army, I think I knew there was a Peace Corps, but I didn't know much about it.

[Assistant] Well, the beginning and the excitement of the early '60s sort of, were you aware of it I mean?

[User] Peripherally.

[Assistant] And Kennedy's message of, you know, ask not.

[User] Oh yes. Oh yes, we all knew that. And maybe that was from the medical missionary concept, you know, maybe that was in the back of my mind.

[Assistant] So was that still an active idea when you were in Okinawa, that the choice might have been to become a medical missionary?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Peripherally.

[Assistant] And Kennedy's message of, you know, ask not.

[User] Oh yes. Oh yes, we all knew that. And maybe that was from the medical missionary concept, you know, maybe that was in the back of my mind.

[Assistant] So was that still an active idea when you were in Okinawa, that the choice might have been to become a medical missionary?

[User] Maybe. Maybe.

[Assistant] But clearly you didn't want to continue being an Army nurse.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe. Maybe.

[Assistant] But clearly you didn't want to continue being an Army nurse.

[User] Right. And I said, I've got to get out of this War Corps and there was the Peace Corps, and I think I used that terminology. I want to leave the War Corps and join the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, interesting.

[User] I probably read an advertisement in a paper or saw something somewhere that.

[Assistant] What did your family say?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And I said, I've got to get out of this War Corps and there was the Peace Corps, and I think I used that terminology. I want to leave the War Corps and join the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, interesting.

[User] I probably read an advertisement in a paper or saw something somewhere that.

[Assistant] What did your family say?

[User] They were cool with that. My mother had a wonderful attitude about travel. If dad came home and said, Patty, we have orders to go to Hawaii or Florida or Washington State or Tennessee, she would say, oh goody, let me look on the map and see where it is and when do we start packing? So our whole family had a very positive attitude about changing four schools in one year. It was nothing to us. We had a good family, tight knit family.

[Assistant] And how many siblings?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I probably read an advertisement in a paper or saw something somewhere that.

[Assistant] What did your family say?

[User] They were cool with that. My mother had a wonderful attitude about travel. If dad came home and said, Patty, we have orders to go to Hawaii or Florida or Washington State or Tennessee, she would say, oh goody, let me look on the map and see where it is and when do we start packing? So our whole family had a very positive attitude about changing four schools in one year. It was nothing to us. We had a good family, tight knit family.

[Assistant] And how many siblings?

[User] Four of us kids.

[Assistant] Brothers or sisters?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were cool with that. My mother had a wonderful attitude about travel. If dad came home and said, Patty, we have orders to go to Hawaii or Florida or Washington State or Tennessee, she would say, oh goody, let me look on the map and see where it is and when do we start packing? So our whole family had a very positive attitude about changing four schools in one year. It was nothing to us. We had a good family, tight knit family.

[Assistant] And how many siblings?

[User] Four of us kids.

[Assistant] Brothers or sisters?

[User] I was the third out of four. An older brother, six years older, who joined the Air Force. So we had Navy, Air Force, and then I went in the Army. The next four years older sister, who likes the fashion world and the business world and material things, and she's always gravitated toward the good life. And then a younger sister who, uh, who graduated from San Diego State in English and looked for a job in Southern California in 1970. And there was the peak of the baby boomers and couldn't find a job. So she answered a call to go to Australia, where they needed teachers thoroughly. And went there for two years and stayed up, stayed there, and she lives there to this day.

[Assistant] Yeah. Can you move the mic around? I'm sorry.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Four of us kids.

[Assistant] Brothers or sisters?

[User] I was the third out of four. An older brother, six years older, who joined the Air Force. So we had Navy, Air Force, and then I went in the Army. The next four years older sister, who likes the fashion world and the business world and material things, and she's always gravitated toward the good life. And then a younger sister who, uh, who graduated from San Diego State in English and looked for a job in Southern California in 1970. And there was the peak of the baby boomers and couldn't find a job. So she answered a call to go to Australia, where they needed teachers thoroughly. And went there for two years and stayed up, stayed there, and she lives there to this day.

[Assistant] Yeah. Can you move the mic around? I'm sorry.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, it should be. OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was the third out of four. An older brother, six years older, who joined the Air Force. So we had Navy, Air Force, and then I went in the Army. The next four years older sister, who likes the fashion world and the business world and material things, and she's always gravitated toward the good life. And then a younger sister who, uh, who graduated from San Diego State in English and looked for a job in Southern California in 1970. And there was the peak of the baby boomers and couldn't find a job. So she answered a call to go to Australia, where they needed teachers thoroughly. And went there for two years and stayed up, stayed there, and she lives there to this day.

[Assistant] Yeah. Can you move the mic around? I'm sorry.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, it should be. OK.

[User] Shall we do a test and see if it's?

[Assistant] No, we're OK. But the War Corps, Peace Corps dichotomy didn't disturb your family, that you were sort of going 180 degrees?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, it should be. OK.

[User] Shall we do a test and see if it's?

[Assistant] No, we're OK. But the War Corps, Peace Corps dichotomy didn't disturb your family, that you were sort of going 180 degrees?

[User] No, I was that typical third child where the parents overcome the obstacles of the first two kids and the third one, no matter what they're like, is a piece of cake and slides through the slats. And so anything I did, they were pretty much for it.

[Assistant] Do you recall the process of applying? I mean, did you gather information about Peace Corps or just sort of send off a letter and hope you'd be picked?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I remember going to the Honolulu Library. I was living in Honolulu at the time. And uh, looking up Colombia and I read about the drug problems that they had and the machismo of the South American male. And I was a bit put off by Colombia, so I wrote back and said, no, I don't think I'm interested in going to South America. Where else do you have? And then a second reply came back, you know, we were all maybe a phone conversation. Maybe. Although I don't remember very many long distance phone calls, but maybe a phone conversation or a letter. I don't have it anymore. It said, what about Ethiopia? So again, I went to the library to look up, where in the world is Ethiopia? And I think most Americans knew one or two things about Ethiopia. They knew about Haile Selassie.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they knew about Abebe Bikila, the long-distance runner.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] So I said, Ethiopia, that's the place for me. I think that I would like to go to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Were you a hiker then or did that come later?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they knew about Abebe Bikila, the long-distance runner.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] So I said, Ethiopia, that's the place for me. I think that I would like to go to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Were you a hiker then or did that come later?

[User] Well, I was always an outdoors person. Growing up, we couldn't afford to stay in motels with all of our travels, so we'd stay in state parks and had a trailer. And did the. [tape break] So yeah, the outdoors life was part of growing up.

[Assistant] Because isn't Addis Ababa twelve thousand feet higher or so?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was always an outdoors person. Growing up, we couldn't afford to stay in motels with all of our travels, so we'd stay in state parks and had a trailer. And did the. [tape break] So yeah, the outdoors life was part of growing up.

[Assistant] Because isn't Addis Ababa twelve thousand feet higher or so?

[User] Not that high.

[Assistant] Ten thousand?

[User] It's, uh, Addis Ababa is, yeah, it's on the high plateau, I guess you'd call it.

[Assistant] Yeah. And did you have a sense, some sense of the project you were being asked to join, other than the location?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not that high.

[Assistant] Ten thousand?

[User] It's, uh, Addis Ababa is, yeah, it's on the high plateau, I guess you'd call it.

[Assistant] Yeah. And did you have a sense, some sense of the project you were being asked to join, other than the location?

[User] Yes. Well, I'd asked to go as a nurse.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's, uh, Addis Ababa is, yeah, it's on the high plateau, I guess you'd call it.

[Assistant] Yeah. And did you have a sense, some sense of the project you were being asked to join, other than the location?

[User] Yes. Well, I'd asked to go as a nurse.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.

[User] Yeah, as a registered nurse. I think some of the projects. There was a malaria control project, and I think there was a trachoma for the eye project. But I'd say 100 percent of us in the nursing area went to dresser schools. They told us about dresser schools. So we're teachers in a dresser program. And dresser, as far as I can tell, is an English term, a World War I term, that means medical aid, medical assistant, nursing assistant. And later found out that in Ethiopia, it's the Ethiopian equivalent to an LPN, licensed practical nurse, licensed vocational nurse.

[Assistant] So you finally sorted it out with Peace Corps which project you were going into. Packed everything up, which should have been no problem for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, I'd asked to go as a nurse.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.

[User] Yeah, as a registered nurse. I think some of the projects. There was a malaria control project, and I think there was a trachoma for the eye project. But I'd say 100 percent of us in the nursing area went to dresser schools. They told us about dresser schools. So we're teachers in a dresser program. And dresser, as far as I can tell, is an English term, a World War I term, that means medical aid, medical assistant, nursing assistant. And later found out that in Ethiopia, it's the Ethiopian equivalent to an LPN, licensed practical nurse, licensed vocational nurse.

[Assistant] So you finally sorted it out with Peace Corps which project you were going into. Packed everything up, which should have been no problem for you.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You'd been doing it all your life. And where did you go for the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, as a registered nurse. I think some of the projects. There was a malaria control project, and I think there was a trachoma for the eye project. But I'd say 100 percent of us in the nursing area went to dresser schools. They told us about dresser schools. So we're teachers in a dresser program. And dresser, as far as I can tell, is an English term, a World War I term, that means medical aid, medical assistant, nursing assistant. And later found out that in Ethiopia, it's the Ethiopian equivalent to an LPN, licensed practical nurse, licensed vocational nurse.

[Assistant] So you finally sorted it out with Peace Corps which project you were going into. Packed everything up, which should have been no problem for you.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You'd been doing it all your life. And where did you go for the training?

[User] Well, the first place we met was Philadelphia, some large hotel in Philadelphia. I think we stayed there for probably five or six days.

[Assistant] Was it a complete nurse program that you would?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You'd been doing it all your life. And where did you go for the training?

[User] Well, the first place we met was Philadelphia, some large hotel in Philadelphia. I think we stayed there for probably five or six days.

[Assistant] Was it a complete nurse program that you would?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. What was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the first place we met was Philadelphia, some large hotel in Philadelphia. I think we stayed there for probably five or six days.

[Assistant] Was it a complete nurse program that you would?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. What was it?

[User] No, it was. Well, I don't even know if it was all Ethiopia anymore. Because it seemed like there were a lot of people in the room, many more people than went to our training group. So I think it was an all Peace Corps volunteer staging area.

[Assistant] OK. What year was this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was. Well, I don't even know if it was all Ethiopia anymore. Because it seemed like there were a lot of people in the room, many more people than went to our training group. So I think it was an all Peace Corps volunteer staging area.

[Assistant] OK. What year was this?

[User] Would have been '68. Probably March of '68.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And it seemed to me like other than orientation into what is the Peace Corps and some filling out some questionnaires, is this what you really want to do? And these are the consequences and talk about it in round circles. It seems like one of their weeding out objectives was to give us a five dollar bill and say, you're going to spend two nights away from here. Or three. It was either two or three nights in this block in Philadelphia and they had a grid. And I was to stay in the confines of one block and I was to come back on the third day. So two nights out. And it was a survival test. So that's what we did. We were each one individual. There weren't teams.

[Assistant] Just by yourself?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Would have been '68. Probably March of '68.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And it seemed to me like other than orientation into what is the Peace Corps and some filling out some questionnaires, is this what you really want to do? And these are the consequences and talk about it in round circles. It seems like one of their weeding out objectives was to give us a five dollar bill and say, you're going to spend two nights away from here. Or three. It was either two or three nights in this block in Philadelphia and they had a grid. And I was to stay in the confines of one block and I was to come back on the third day. So two nights out. And it was a survival test. So that's what we did. We were each one individual. There weren't teams.

[Assistant] Just by yourself?

[User] By myself. Five bucks. See you on the third day from now.

[Assistant] I never heard that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it seemed to me like other than orientation into what is the Peace Corps and some filling out some questionnaires, is this what you really want to do? And these are the consequences and talk about it in round circles. It seems like one of their weeding out objectives was to give us a five dollar bill and say, you're going to spend two nights away from here. Or three. It was either two or three nights in this block in Philadelphia and they had a grid. And I was to stay in the confines of one block and I was to come back on the third day. So two nights out. And it was a survival test. So that's what we did. We were each one individual. There weren't teams.

[Assistant] Just by yourself?

[User] By myself. Five bucks. See you on the third day from now.

[Assistant] I never heard that.

[User] And I did it.

[Assistant] Yeah. What did you do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] By myself. Five bucks. See you on the third day from now.

[Assistant] I never heard that.

[User] And I did it.

[Assistant] Yeah. What did you do?

[User] Well, it was pretty interesting. I remember sitting on the steps of a large cathedral and wondering, um, you know, where was I going to spend the night? So Philadelphia has these row houses. So on my block were some row houses and there was a woman standing, a black woman standing at the mailbox, and she had a letter in her hand. And I walked by and I said hello and we exchanged some, uh, greetings. And she said, can you read this letter for me? And it was a call to jury duty. And she said, well, I'm 83 years old and I don't read or write, and I don't think I should be on a jury. So I wrote a letter for her to.

[Assistant] Did you go to her house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was pretty interesting. I remember sitting on the steps of a large cathedral and wondering, um, you know, where was I going to spend the night? So Philadelphia has these row houses. So on my block were some row houses and there was a woman standing, a black woman standing at the mailbox, and she had a letter in her hand. And I walked by and I said hello and we exchanged some, uh, greetings. And she said, can you read this letter for me? And it was a call to jury duty. And she said, well, I'm 83 years old and I don't read or write, and I don't think I should be on a jury. So I wrote a letter for her to.

[Assistant] Did you go to her house?

[User] So I said to her, uh, I told her what I was doing, and I asked her if I could give her a dollar and a quarter and could stay the night at her house. And she let me do that.

[Assistant] That's wonderful.

[User] She said, my son will be home at 5:30 or so. Come back then. And so I did, and I stayed the first night with her. And the second.

[Assistant] And you wrote the letter for her?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She said, my son will be home at 5:30 or so. Come back then. And so I did, and I stayed the first night with her. And the second.

[Assistant] And you wrote the letter for her?

[User] Wrote the letter. Very pleasant. And the second night I said, well, I can't do this two nights in a row. So the second night I found a flophouse hotel. And uh, so I stayed there and I remember the man above me was a peg leg. So he'd walk around and he'd go, step, thump, step, thump, step. Scared me to death. I was afraid he was going to come down and he'd have a black eye patch.

[Assistant] Captain Hook.

[User] So yeah, it was sort of like the Outward Bound solo where you're on your own.

[Assistant] But in an urban setting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Wrote the letter. Very pleasant. And the second night I said, well, I can't do this two nights in a row. So the second night I found a flophouse hotel. And uh, so I stayed there and I remember the man above me was a peg leg. So he'd walk around and he'd go, step, thump, step, thump, step. Scared me to death. I was afraid he was going to come down and he'd have a black eye patch.

[Assistant] Captain Hook.

[User] So yeah, it was sort of like the Outward Bound solo where you're on your own.

[Assistant] But in an urban setting.

[User] Uh huh, in an urban setting. And so I just walked the streets for those two days. I remember some outdoor markets. It was not a threat to me for some reason. I guess I was secure enough. Well.

[Assistant] How old were you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh, in an urban setting. And so I just walked the streets for those two days. I remember some outdoor markets. It was not a threat to me for some reason. I guess I was secure enough. Well.

[Assistant] How old were you?

[User] Let's remember now that I've been in the Army six and a half years.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So I wasn't 21 years old right out of a college. Uh, let's say a Lutheran college in the Midwest, so to speak.

[Assistant] Well, I was going to ask you about your impression of the others in the group with you at that point. It must have been a big mix.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let's remember now that I've been in the Army six and a half years.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So I wasn't 21 years old right out of a college. Uh, let's say a Lutheran college in the Midwest, so to speak.

[Assistant] Well, I was going to ask you about your impression of the others in the group with you at that point. It must have been a big mix.

[User] Yeah, it was. I was probably one of the older ones. Yeah. Because I think I probably was 28. Yeah, 28. I think I was in the Peace Corps 28 through 30. Yeah. So I was probably 28 years old and there were a lot of the right out of college. But having been in the Army, I was used to young people. You know, the younger people.

[Assistant] Was there talk at that point in the group, when you went in the circles and everything, were there young men there who were trying to avoid the draft?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I wasn't 21 years old right out of a college. Uh, let's say a Lutheran college in the Midwest, so to speak.

[Assistant] Well, I was going to ask you about your impression of the others in the group with you at that point. It must have been a big mix.

[User] Yeah, it was. I was probably one of the older ones. Yeah. Because I think I probably was 28. Yeah, 28. I think I was in the Peace Corps 28 through 30. Yeah. So I was probably 28 years old and there were a lot of the right out of college. But having been in the Army, I was used to young people. You know, the younger people.

[Assistant] Was there talk at that point in the group, when you went in the circles and everything, were there young men there who were trying to avoid the draft?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Because this was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was. I was probably one of the older ones. Yeah. Because I think I probably was 28. Yeah, 28. I think I was in the Peace Corps 28 through 30. Yeah. So I was probably 28 years old and there were a lot of the right out of college. But having been in the Army, I was used to young people. You know, the younger people.

[Assistant] Was there talk at that point in the group, when you went in the circles and everything, were there young men there who were trying to avoid the draft?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Because this was.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Did you have any particular reaction to that or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Because this was.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Did you have any particular reaction to that or?

[User] Well, remember, I'm out of the War Corps into the Peace Corps mentality now. And I had some feelings about going to Vietnam, even though later on I went myself. But um, yeah, I probably actually did have a little reserve saying, you know, this is a national effort, but I didn't vocalize it a lot. But I think I did stand out as probably more starchy and more regimented in my thinking than the average. But I didn't hold it against them, I remember that. I probably was puzzled, having grown up in the military and having been in the military, I was probably a little puzzled about it. But I had enough exposure to non-military types.

[Assistant] But even someone coming with six years of life experience beyond college would have, you know, there might be some differences between those just out of college.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Did you have any particular reaction to that or?

[User] Well, remember, I'm out of the War Corps into the Peace Corps mentality now. And I had some feelings about going to Vietnam, even though later on I went myself. But um, yeah, I probably actually did have a little reserve saying, you know, this is a national effort, but I didn't vocalize it a lot. But I think I did stand out as probably more starchy and more regimented in my thinking than the average. But I didn't hold it against them, I remember that. I probably was puzzled, having grown up in the military and having been in the military, I was probably a little puzzled about it. But I had enough exposure to non-military types.

[Assistant] But even someone coming with six years of life experience beyond college would have, you know, there might be some differences between those just out of college.

[User] Yeah, there was. And I, you know, I felt a little bit on the periphery. Yeah. I didn't feel quite as carefree as I thought.

[Assistant] After this wonderful Philadelphia experience, what was next?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, remember, I'm out of the War Corps into the Peace Corps mentality now. And I had some feelings about going to Vietnam, even though later on I went myself. But um, yeah, I probably actually did have a little reserve saying, you know, this is a national effort, but I didn't vocalize it a lot. But I think I did stand out as probably more starchy and more regimented in my thinking than the average. But I didn't hold it against them, I remember that. I probably was puzzled, having grown up in the military and having been in the military, I was probably a little puzzled about it. But I had enough exposure to non-military types.

[Assistant] But even someone coming with six years of life experience beyond college would have, you know, there might be some differences between those just out of college.

[User] Yeah, there was. And I, you know, I felt a little bit on the periphery. Yeah. I didn't feel quite as carefree as I thought.

[Assistant] After this wonderful Philadelphia experience, what was next?

[User] Oh, we went to the Virgin Islands, Saint. Let's see. We went to Charlotte Amalie was the name of the town. We flew there.

[Assistant] At the end of this Philadelphia thing were you told, well, you're in the Peace Corps and you're on your way to train, to become? So did you know the project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think I knew I was going to go to a dresser school. Yes.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] But they gave us. I remember at Philadelphia right at the end, they said, OK, there's no involvement. This is on the government if you want to turn around and go home. And a lot of people decided that this wasn't for them at that point.

[Assistant] After Philadelphia?

[User] Mm hmm. So they went home. So then we got on this Caribbean Airlines and I still remember the turbulence in the air and we all looked at each other like, what's holding this plane together? And are we going to get there in the plane or are we going to get there in a parachute? It was pretty exciting. And so we were on the major Virgin Island with Charlotte Amalie was the town, and I think we were there for six weeks. So we went out of the town to the other side of the island, to a little old, I think was an old army camp or something like an army camp would be. It was long buildings where we all stayed in bunk beds.

[Assistant] It sounds like a barracks.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, like an old barracks. And it was on a hillside. And this great, beautiful, sparkling Pacific Ocean in front of us. And Mandalay Bay or Mandahl Bay was a Sunday excursion that we all looked forward to because we didn't go swimming. I mean, we worked six and a half days a week. We were in training.

[Assistant] Doing what?

[User] It was culture immersion and language immersion, and then some psychological circles sitting around. I remember they had facilitators and one of the facilitators that asked posed this question to us. What impact will you have on your country, on this country that you're going to? For me, I was a registered nurse, so you're going to go in and you're going to teach these people how to improve their health. You're going to prolong their life. You're going to help them have healthier babies so the population will explode. And are you willing to take the consequences of the impact that you'll have on this country? I remember that posed as a question. The other part, the language immersion, was fun. We literally buried English. So we had a little ceremony one day where we took a shovel, and for three days we were not to be allowed to speak one word of English.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Now the language teachers were brought over from Ethiopia, and I still remember them. They came up and walked up the hill and they had their shammas wrapped around them. So they look like biblical characters. The shammas is the blanket like coat that's worn in Ethiopia, covers the head and the shoulders, and it's a blanket. There are different weights of the blanket. And in the mist of the morning, I still remember these five or six people coming up dressed in their national dress and appearing before us as though they were two thousand years from the past and they were to be our language teachers. And I still have a vivid memory of the first impression of that.

[Assistant] And the language being?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Now the language teachers were brought over from Ethiopia, and I still remember them. They came up and walked up the hill and they had their shammas wrapped around them. So they look like biblical characters. The shammas is the blanket like coat that's worn in Ethiopia, covers the head and the shoulders, and it's a blanket. There are different weights of the blanket. And in the mist of the morning, I still remember these five or six people coming up dressed in their national dress and appearing before us as though they were two thousand years from the past and they were to be our language teachers. And I still have a vivid memory of the first impression of that.

[Assistant] And the language being?

[User] The language they taught us was Amharic. And that's the national language of Ethiopia. It's not the most populous tribe, but it was Haile Selassie's language and so it was the official government language. Turned out where I was sent was a Tigrinya speaking area. But anyway, we learned the basics of Amharic, and they used the technique of mimicking and drama and pointing. And so, for example, I still remember the teacher pointing to what's in front of us now is a terepeza. And so the theory was that you didn't learn to translate. We didn't want to say this is a table. Yihi terepeza. Ya terepeza. So we learned. And to this day, I don't think, when I'm thinking about Amharic, I don't think table. I think terepeza.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And then she would get us up there and she would talk about the morning and so she would hold her hands out and she would point the finger coursing over the course of the day. And she would say in the morning is la ansat. So everybody knew that was morning and then evening time. So we got the idea of the day, time.

[Assistant] Now this was just a three-day intensive? Or did it continue?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The language they taught us was Amharic. And that's the national language of Ethiopia. It's not the most populous tribe, but it was Haile Selassie's language and so it was the official government language. Turned out where I was sent was a Tigrinya speaking area. But anyway, we learned the basics of Amharic, and they used the technique of mimicking and drama and pointing. And so, for example, I still remember the teacher pointing to what's in front of us now is a terepeza. And so the theory was that you didn't learn to translate. We didn't want to say this is a table. Yihi terepeza. Ya terepeza. So we learned. And to this day, I don't think, when I'm thinking about Amharic, I don't think table. I think terepeza.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] And then she would get us up there and she would talk about the morning and so she would hold her hands out and she would point the finger coursing over the course of the day. And she would say in the morning is la ansat. So everybody knew that was morning and then evening time. So we got the idea of the day, time.

[Assistant] Now this was just a three-day intensive? Or did it continue?

[User] Oh no, it was. No, it was probably five weeks.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. But it started with the burying thing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no, it was. No, it was probably five weeks.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. But it started with the burying thing.

[User] We buried English for three days.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] Yeah. And we don't use a lot of English in our classes.

[Assistant] And the group you were working with, was it all the dresser program or was it a mix?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We buried English for three days.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] Yeah. And we don't use a lot of English in our classes.

[Assistant] And the group you were working with, was it all the dresser program or was it a mix?

[User] No, it was mixture. Community organizing and water resources and teach, regular school teachers. And so, yeah, we didn't have. Once we get to Ethiopia, we divide it off for some dresser training. But in the Virgin Islands, it was, we were mixed.

[Assistant] So in an ordinary day, say like in the third week of training, how much time was being given to language training as compared to area studies and the other stuff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And we don't use a lot of English in our classes.

[Assistant] And the group you were working with, was it all the dresser program or was it a mix?

[User] No, it was mixture. Community organizing and water resources and teach, regular school teachers. And so, yeah, we didn't have. Once we get to Ethiopia, we divide it off for some dresser training. But in the Virgin Islands, it was, we were mixed.

[Assistant] So in an ordinary day, say like in the third week of training, how much time was being given to language training as compared to area studies and the other stuff?

[User] Quite a bit. I had a fairly decent foundation in Amharic. I could go to the marketplace.

[Assistant] Well, were you told that you were going to be tested and that's part of selection?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was mixture. Community organizing and water resources and teach, regular school teachers. And so, yeah, we didn't have. Once we get to Ethiopia, we divide it off for some dresser training. But in the Virgin Islands, it was, we were mixed.

[Assistant] So in an ordinary day, say like in the third week of training, how much time was being given to language training as compared to area studies and the other stuff?

[User] Quite a bit. I had a fairly decent foundation in Amharic. I could go to the marketplace.

[Assistant] Well, were you told that you were going to be tested and that's part of selection?

[User] Well, you know, this test that I hear about other people, we never. I think we did go in front of some people and they asked some questions, but it wasn't a matter of being deselected if you didn't master the language. Well, one of the reasons being that we knew we were teaching in English because English is the medical, the uniform medical language in Ethiopia. The doctors were from East Europe. The nurses were, many of them were trained in Lebanon, Beirut. American University in Beirut. So they had to have a universal language and English was the medical.

[Assistant] So you were aware of that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Quite a bit. I had a fairly decent foundation in Amharic. I could go to the marketplace.

[Assistant] Well, were you told that you were going to be tested and that's part of selection?

[User] Well, you know, this test that I hear about other people, we never. I think we did go in front of some people and they asked some questions, but it wasn't a matter of being deselected if you didn't master the language. Well, one of the reasons being that we knew we were teaching in English because English is the medical, the uniform medical language in Ethiopia. The doctors were from East Europe. The nurses were, many of them were trained in Lebanon, Beirut. American University in Beirut. So they had to have a universal language and English was the medical.

[Assistant] So you were aware of that.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Were there separate psychiatric interviews or have they given it up by then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Were there separate psychiatric interviews or have they given it up by then?

[User] I think maybe a psychologist was there, but that was.

[Assistant] The circle.

[User] In the circle where we were given these challenges. We had some culture and then we had a team building, team building, and maybe there was a psychologist overviewing. But I was never aware that we were being psychoanalyzed. Although some people, you know, they've broken the training and they said, this isn't. I can't take this. So maybe there were psychological interviews for them. But I don't ever remember going to a psychiatrist.

[Assistant] So being selected wasn't an issue. You mean you were pretty well convinced that you were in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think maybe a psychologist was there, but that was.

[Assistant] The circle.

[User] In the circle where we were given these challenges. We had some culture and then we had a team building, team building, and maybe there was a psychologist overviewing. But I was never aware that we were being psychoanalyzed. Although some people, you know, they've broken the training and they said, this isn't. I can't take this. So maybe there were psychological interviews for them. But I don't ever remember going to a psychiatrist.

[Assistant] So being selected wasn't an issue. You mean you were pretty well convinced that you were in?

[User] For me, yeah. And I was comfortable with the prospect of two years overseas.

[Assistant] But was it a cloud over the training? Who's going to go, who isn't?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the circle where we were given these challenges. We had some culture and then we had a team building, team building, and maybe there was a psychologist overviewing. But I was never aware that we were being psychoanalyzed. Although some people, you know, they've broken the training and they said, this isn't. I can't take this. So maybe there were psychological interviews for them. But I don't ever remember going to a psychiatrist.

[Assistant] So being selected wasn't an issue. You mean you were pretty well convinced that you were in?

[User] For me, yeah. And I was comfortable with the prospect of two years overseas.

[Assistant] But was it a cloud over the training? Who's going to go, who isn't?

[User] For some of them. There were people who, I still remember a woman very doubtful whether she wanted to be a part of this. So people left, you know, on a weekly basis from the training.

[Assistant] And it didn't, it wasn't wrenching? I mean, oh my God, they're taking so-and-so away kind of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For me, yeah. And I was comfortable with the prospect of two years overseas.

[Assistant] But was it a cloud over the training? Who's going to go, who isn't?

[User] For some of them. There were people who, I still remember a woman very doubtful whether she wanted to be a part of this. So people left, you know, on a weekly basis from the training.

[Assistant] And it didn't, it wasn't wrenching? I mean, oh my God, they're taking so-and-so away kind of.

[User] Well, not for me. I mean, I've been in the Army, so I was used the people coming and going out of my life.

[Assistant] The team building activities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For some of them. There were people who, I still remember a woman very doubtful whether she wanted to be a part of this. So people left, you know, on a weekly basis from the training.

[Assistant] And it didn't, it wasn't wrenching? I mean, oh my God, they're taking so-and-so away kind of.

[User] Well, not for me. I mean, I've been in the Army, so I was used the people coming and going out of my life.

[Assistant] The team building activities?

[User] Other people might have.

[Assistant] Yeah. What were the team building activities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, not for me. I mean, I've been in the Army, so I was used the people coming and going out of my life.

[Assistant] The team building activities?

[User] Other people might have.

[Assistant] Yeah. What were the team building activities?

[User] Well, I remember there was some kind of a business and we were making widgets, and I think they wanted to make us aware of competition. We were given a project to produce widgets and we had to devise how we could produce these widgets. And the exercise at the end, the psychologist I guess it was or whoever was in charge of it, said now this group was very intense on the product, whereas this other group was very intent on the process, you know, bringing everybody in. And so it was very enlightening for us to see how we reacted under pressure to produce something.

[Assistant] Uh-huh. And the entire training was six weeks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Other people might have.

[Assistant] Yeah. What were the team building activities?

[User] Well, I remember there was some kind of a business and we were making widgets, and I think they wanted to make us aware of competition. We were given a project to produce widgets and we had to devise how we could produce these widgets. And the exercise at the end, the psychologist I guess it was or whoever was in charge of it, said now this group was very intense on the product, whereas this other group was very intent on the process, you know, bringing everybody in. And so it was very enlightening for us to see how we reacted under pressure to produce something.

[Assistant] Uh-huh. And the entire training was six weeks?

[User] In the Virgin Islands. Now it continued once we got in the country, once we went to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] How did it wrap up in the Virgin Islands?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I remember there was some kind of a business and we were making widgets, and I think they wanted to make us aware of competition. We were given a project to produce widgets and we had to devise how we could produce these widgets. And the exercise at the end, the psychologist I guess it was or whoever was in charge of it, said now this group was very intense on the product, whereas this other group was very intent on the process, you know, bringing everybody in. And so it was very enlightening for us to see how we reacted under pressure to produce something.

[Assistant] Uh-huh. And the entire training was six weeks?

[User] In the Virgin Islands. Now it continued once we got in the country, once we went to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] How did it wrap up in the Virgin Islands?

[User] Well, we made our decision whether we're going to stay or go.

[Assistant] OK. And was there a closing ceremony or just last day kind of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the Virgin Islands. Now it continued once we got in the country, once we went to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] How did it wrap up in the Virgin Islands?

[User] Well, we made our decision whether we're going to stay or go.

[Assistant] OK. And was there a closing ceremony or just last day kind of?

[User] Oh, I don't remember a ceremony.

[Assistant] Then what happened?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we made our decision whether we're going to stay or go.

[Assistant] OK. And was there a closing ceremony or just last day kind of?

[User] Oh, I don't remember a ceremony.

[Assistant] Then what happened?

[User] Then we got on a plane and went to Ethiopia, to Addis Ababa.

[Assistant] From Virgin Islands?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I don't remember a ceremony.

[Assistant] Then what happened?

[User] Then we got on a plane and went to Ethiopia, to Addis Ababa.

[Assistant] From Virgin Islands?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] What about, at what point? Hmm?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then we got on a plane and went to Ethiopia, to Addis Ababa.

[Assistant] From Virgin Islands?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] What about, at what point? Hmm?

[User] I don't remember any home leave.

[Assistant] When did you pack for overseas? I mean, didn't you have to take, you know, enough handkerchiefs for two years kind of thing? Or was that provided? You could get it once you got in country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] What about, at what point? Hmm?

[User] I don't remember any home leave.

[Assistant] When did you pack for overseas? I mean, didn't you have to take, you know, enough handkerchiefs for two years kind of thing? Or was that provided? You could get it once you got in country?

[User] Um, I don't remember a whole lot of luggage when I got to Addis Ababa. I think I had a suitcase and a backpack, so I don't. I might have come home. I don't remember that. I can't remember if there was a little interval where they said, you go home for 10 days and then we'll see you at the New York airport. Because it seems like that would be very expensive. I think once I started the training, the expectation was that I was going to Ethiopia. I think. I think so.

[Assistant] And there was a big screening out that happened in Philadelphia, so the numbers kept going down. And then more. Was it a charter flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember any home leave.

[Assistant] When did you pack for overseas? I mean, didn't you have to take, you know, enough handkerchiefs for two years kind of thing? Or was that provided? You could get it once you got in country?

[User] Um, I don't remember a whole lot of luggage when I got to Addis Ababa. I think I had a suitcase and a backpack, so I don't. I might have come home. I don't remember that. I can't remember if there was a little interval where they said, you go home for 10 days and then we'll see you at the New York airport. Because it seems like that would be very expensive. I think once I started the training, the expectation was that I was going to Ethiopia. I think. I think so.

[Assistant] And there was a big screening out that happened in Philadelphia, so the numbers kept going down. And then more. Was it a charter flight?

[User] Hmm. Maybe.

[Assistant] Well, that's OK. You got to Ethiopia.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I don't remember a whole lot of luggage when I got to Addis Ababa. I think I had a suitcase and a backpack, so I don't. I might have come home. I don't remember that. I can't remember if there was a little interval where they said, you go home for 10 days and then we'll see you at the New York airport. Because it seems like that would be very expensive. I think once I started the training, the expectation was that I was going to Ethiopia. I think. I think so.

[Assistant] And there was a big screening out that happened in Philadelphia, so the numbers kept going down. And then more. Was it a charter flight?

[User] Hmm. Maybe.

[Assistant] Well, that's OK. You got to Ethiopia.

[User] Yeah, we got to Ethiopia, stayed in a hotel.

[Assistant] You're in Addis?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hmm. Maybe.

[Assistant] Well, that's OK. You got to Ethiopia.

[User] Yeah, we got to Ethiopia, stayed in a hotel.

[Assistant] You're in Addis?

[User] We were all, yeah, we were in Addis. And resumed some training there, some more language.

[Assistant] What was your first impression? I mean, now you're finally in the country where you're going to be serving. Do you recall your initial reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we got to Ethiopia, stayed in a hotel.

[Assistant] You're in Addis?

[User] We were all, yeah, we were in Addis. And resumed some training there, some more language.

[Assistant] What was your first impression? I mean, now you're finally in the country where you're going to be serving. Do you recall your initial reaction?

[User] They characterize Addis Ababa as a large village. A city that's a large village. And I remember walking on the streets and, you know, right across the border here in San Diego is Tijuana. So I think I had some acculturation from that, from living in Japan, which was early fifties. From Okinawa, which is up. [tape break] Shocked at any conditions, but I think the poverty and the lack of infrastructure, the limitations on drinking the water. The people still in their, most of the people still wore their native dress, even in the city.

[Assistant] Were there a large number of Americans in and around Addis? Because Peace Corps was pretty big by then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were all, yeah, we were in Addis. And resumed some training there, some more language.

[Assistant] What was your first impression? I mean, now you're finally in the country where you're going to be serving. Do you recall your initial reaction?

[User] They characterize Addis Ababa as a large village. A city that's a large village. And I remember walking on the streets and, you know, right across the border here in San Diego is Tijuana. So I think I had some acculturation from that, from living in Japan, which was early fifties. From Okinawa, which is up. [tape break] Shocked at any conditions, but I think the poverty and the lack of infrastructure, the limitations on drinking the water. The people still in their, most of the people still wore their native dress, even in the city.

[Assistant] Were there a large number of Americans in and around Addis? Because Peace Corps was pretty big by then.

[User] Yeah, Peace Corps had a presence, a large building, but there were a lot of Ethiopians working there. A large presence. I don't remember seeing, for example, a British colony or an Italian colony in Addis Ababa. I think there was a French school, but you didn't see too many Americans. Now we were all in a hotel. I think it was for foreigners. I still remember that very vividly. Um. And we had our training in another hotel I remember on the rooftop. The weather was wonderful. It was summertime, so we did our training on a rooftop. Yeah. So I wasn't impressed by a large number of foreigners. As a dresser program, we did tour some hospital that had been built by the Seventh Day Adventists. That was good. Yeah, we saw some hospitals.

[Assistant] So you remember who the director of the project was at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They characterize Addis Ababa as a large village. A city that's a large village. And I remember walking on the streets and, you know, right across the border here in San Diego is Tijuana. So I think I had some acculturation from that, from living in Japan, which was early fifties. From Okinawa, which is up. [tape break] Shocked at any conditions, but I think the poverty and the lack of infrastructure, the limitations on drinking the water. The people still in their, most of the people still wore their native dress, even in the city.

[Assistant] Were there a large number of Americans in and around Addis? Because Peace Corps was pretty big by then.

[User] Yeah, Peace Corps had a presence, a large building, but there were a lot of Ethiopians working there. A large presence. I don't remember seeing, for example, a British colony or an Italian colony in Addis Ababa. I think there was a French school, but you didn't see too many Americans. Now we were all in a hotel. I think it was for foreigners. I still remember that very vividly. Um. And we had our training in another hotel I remember on the rooftop. The weather was wonderful. It was summertime, so we did our training on a rooftop. Yeah. So I wasn't impressed by a large number of foreigners. As a dresser program, we did tour some hospital that had been built by the Seventh Day Adventists. That was good. Yeah, we saw some hospitals.

[Assistant] So you remember who the director of the project was at that time?

[User] Uh, let's see. David Levine comes to mind. I think he was the Ethiopia director.

[Assistant] He would have been the country director. And then there was someone who was directing or heading the dresser project.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, Peace Corps had a presence, a large building, but there were a lot of Ethiopians working there. A large presence. I don't remember seeing, for example, a British colony or an Italian colony in Addis Ababa. I think there was a French school, but you didn't see too many Americans. Now we were all in a hotel. I think it was for foreigners. I still remember that very vividly. Um. And we had our training in another hotel I remember on the rooftop. The weather was wonderful. It was summertime, so we did our training on a rooftop. Yeah. So I wasn't impressed by a large number of foreigners. As a dresser program, we did tour some hospital that had been built by the Seventh Day Adventists. That was good. Yeah, we saw some hospitals.

[Assistant] So you remember who the director of the project was at that time?

[User] Uh, let's see. David Levine comes to mind. I think he was the Ethiopia director.

[Assistant] He would have been the country director. And then there was someone who was directing or heading the dresser project.

[User] Could have been a woman by the first name of India. She might have been the dresser coordinator.

[Assistant] So once you got to Ethiopia and you were in the hotel and you began further training, were you then training just with the dresser group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Could have been a woman by the first name of India. She might have been the dresser coordinator.

[Assistant] So once you got to Ethiopia and you were in the hotel and you began further training, were you then training just with the dresser group?

[User] Yeah, we divided off. Yeah, I don't remember any community developers or high school teachers or anything. I think we were 12 nurses, 12 of us, all going to dresser.

[Assistant] All women?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Did you continue the language training or was it expected that you'd just go out in the streets and talk to people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we divided off. Yeah, I don't remember any community developers or high school teachers or anything. I think we were 12 nurses, 12 of us, all going to dresser.

[Assistant] All women?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Did you continue the language training or was it expected that you'd just go out in the streets and talk to people?

[User] No, I think we continued the language training. I still remember that.

[Assistant] Yeah. How long was the in-country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Did you continue the language training or was it expected that you'd just go out in the streets and talk to people?

[User] No, I think we continued the language training. I still remember that.

[Assistant] Yeah. How long was the in-country?

[User] Probably another three or four weeks. I remember for some reason we went to Dire Dawa. I think we went to see the hospital in Dire Dawa. And there was a leper hospital facility we toured. You know, Dire Dawa is pretty far east, so that was pretty far away. So that was a real treat to go to Dire Dawa.

[Assistant] Did you fly?