[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did have a, there was a native Colombian, funny guy, who was in the camp with language training and an instructor, and he'd been an airline pilot. Regaled us with all sorts of wonderful stories about crashing DC3s in the jungle and walking away, you know. It's going to be wonderful.

[Assistant] So did anyone on the training staff at the camp try to justify or explain why it was you were going through that particular kind of discipline of training?

[User] I don't remember that.

[Assistant] It was just assumed that that's what Peace Corps was all about?

[User] That's what Peace Corps volunteers did, I mean, that was the training. I mean, I think it was great training. I mean, it was, yeah, I mean, I left there. I was in the best physical shape I'd ever been in.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The other thing that we did, which was really interesting. We went out in groups of three or four. We were given a map and a compass. Did you do that?

[Assistant] No.

[User] A map and a compass and.

[Assistant] Poncho.

[User] Poncho and sleeping bag and, you know, packs and food and some money. You're here now, the campus here, we'll see you in two days. And that was, actually that was a lot of fun. That was frustrating and it was fun and it was a great thing to do.

[Assistant] You didn't do it solo, though.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A map and a compass and.

[Assistant] Poncho.

[User] Poncho and sleeping bag and, you know, packs and food and some money. You're here now, the campus here, we'll see you in two days. And that was, actually that was a lot of fun. That was frustrating and it was fun and it was a great thing to do.

[Assistant] You didn't do it solo, though.

[User] No, not solo. We did it in a group of maybe three or four. And again, I mean, I've got stories about that stuff. I mean, the decision making, you know, you're sort of like, we have no idea, where are we, you know, anybody know where we're at? Got no idea. What do we do now? Where do we go? Did you bring the matches? And then, I mean, some wonderful things happened on that trip. I mean, we.

[Assistant] So at the time, at the time where you were going through this, the survival, whatever it's called. You didn't resent it or you didn't feel, you know what in the world does this have to do with being in the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Poncho and sleeping bag and, you know, packs and food and some money. You're here now, the campus here, we'll see you in two days. And that was, actually that was a lot of fun. That was frustrating and it was fun and it was a great thing to do.

[Assistant] You didn't do it solo, though.

[User] No, not solo. We did it in a group of maybe three or four. And again, I mean, I've got stories about that stuff. I mean, the decision making, you know, you're sort of like, we have no idea, where are we, you know, anybody know where we're at? Got no idea. What do we do now? Where do we go? Did you bring the matches? And then, I mean, some wonderful things happened on that trip. I mean, we.

[Assistant] So at the time, at the time where you were going through this, the survival, whatever it's called. You didn't resent it or you didn't feel, you know what in the world does this have to do with being in the Peace Corps?

[User] No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody.

[Assistant] Don't let me put words in your mouth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not solo. We did it in a group of maybe three or four. And again, I mean, I've got stories about that stuff. I mean, the decision making, you know, you're sort of like, we have no idea, where are we, you know, anybody know where we're at? Got no idea. What do we do now? Where do we go? Did you bring the matches? And then, I mean, some wonderful things happened on that trip. I mean, we.

[Assistant] So at the time, at the time where you were going through this, the survival, whatever it's called. You didn't resent it or you didn't feel, you know what in the world does this have to do with being in the Peace Corps?

[User] No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody.

[Assistant] Don't let me put words in your mouth.

[User] No, I certainly, I mean, it was kind of like. I'd been a Boy Scout and I'd gone to camp, and I just loved being outdoors. And there was a lot of fun and it was kind of like, you know, oh, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it was. But, but no, I mean, I just felt it was part of. Well, just sort of part of developing yourself to deal with stuff that was going to happen.

[Assistant] Yeah. And nobody was saying, it wasn't like there was pressure about getting making it, in other words, being selected or not selected.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody.

[Assistant] Don't let me put words in your mouth.

[User] No, I certainly, I mean, it was kind of like. I'd been a Boy Scout and I'd gone to camp, and I just loved being outdoors. And there was a lot of fun and it was kind of like, you know, oh, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it was. But, but no, I mean, I just felt it was part of. Well, just sort of part of developing yourself to deal with stuff that was going to happen.

[Assistant] Yeah. And nobody was saying, it wasn't like there was pressure about getting making it, in other words, being selected or not selected.

[User] No, I don't think so. I think I'm just trying to remember if we met with psychologists in Puerto Rico too. But uh, no, no, I don't think anybody. I certainly wasn't concerned about it. It was kind of like, oh, you know, good morning. What are we doing today? Let's go do it. Kind of stuff.

[Assistant] And there wasn't anyone who said, I don't need this, I quit, you know?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I certainly, I mean, it was kind of like. I'd been a Boy Scout and I'd gone to camp, and I just loved being outdoors. And there was a lot of fun and it was kind of like, you know, oh, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it was. But, but no, I mean, I just felt it was part of. Well, just sort of part of developing yourself to deal with stuff that was going to happen.

[Assistant] Yeah. And nobody was saying, it wasn't like there was pressure about getting making it, in other words, being selected or not selected.

[User] No, I don't think so. I think I'm just trying to remember if we met with psychologists in Puerto Rico too. But uh, no, no, I don't think anybody. I certainly wasn't concerned about it. It was kind of like, oh, you know, good morning. What are we doing today? Let's go do it. Kind of stuff.

[Assistant] And there wasn't anyone who said, I don't need this, I quit, you know?

[User] No. There wasn't anybody in our group. I don't know about the other. Well, but actually, this was the interesting thing because there were remember, there were three or four of us in this cross-country thingy and two of us were from the Colombia group and one or two were from the Venezuela group. And so they mixed us up.

[Assistant] Right. How long did the training camp take?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't think so. I think I'm just trying to remember if we met with psychologists in Puerto Rico too. But uh, no, no, I don't think anybody. I certainly wasn't concerned about it. It was kind of like, oh, you know, good morning. What are we doing today? Let's go do it. Kind of stuff.

[Assistant] And there wasn't anyone who said, I don't need this, I quit, you know?

[User] No. There wasn't anybody in our group. I don't know about the other. Well, but actually, this was the interesting thing because there were remember, there were three or four of us in this cross-country thingy and two of us were from the Colombia group and one or two were from the Venezuela group. And so they mixed us up.

[Assistant] Right. How long did the training camp take?

[User] I think we were in Puerto Rico for a month, I guess. I can go back and look. So it was maybe about three weeks in the camp and a week with a family.

[Assistant] And then how does the training ramp up at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. There wasn't anybody in our group. I don't know about the other. Well, but actually, this was the interesting thing because there were remember, there were three or four of us in this cross-country thingy and two of us were from the Colombia group and one or two were from the Venezuela group. And so they mixed us up.

[Assistant] Right. How long did the training camp take?

[User] I think we were in Puerto Rico for a month, I guess. I can go back and look. So it was maybe about three weeks in the camp and a week with a family.

[Assistant] And then how does the training ramp up at that point?

[User] I don't remember if there was any kind of a formal, I think we all went out and drank a lot of beer that night or something.

[Assistant] Yeah, but up to this point, had you met anyone who'd served as a volunteer in Colombia or was on staff in Colombia or was a Colombian with whom you might be working?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we were in Puerto Rico for a month, I guess. I can go back and look. So it was maybe about three weeks in the camp and a week with a family.

[Assistant] And then how does the training ramp up at that point?

[User] I don't remember if there was any kind of a formal, I think we all went out and drank a lot of beer that night or something.

[Assistant] Yeah, but up to this point, had you met anyone who'd served as a volunteer in Colombia or was on staff in Colombia or was a Colombian with whom you might be working?

[User] Not anyone with whom we might be working. There was one staff person that I remember who was a Peace Corps staff, who was a native Colombian and was working in the training camp.

[Assistant] Not in Colombia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember if there was any kind of a formal, I think we all went out and drank a lot of beer that night or something.

[Assistant] Yeah, but up to this point, had you met anyone who'd served as a volunteer in Colombia or was on staff in Colombia or was a Colombian with whom you might be working?

[User] Not anyone with whom we might be working. There was one staff person that I remember who was a Peace Corps staff, who was a native Colombian and was working in the training camp.

[Assistant] Not in Colombia?

[User] Not in Colombia. He was this guy that had been the pilot. Yeah, I don't remember about the others.

[Assistant] So, now you're all finished training. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're going to do when you get to Colombia, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not anyone with whom we might be working. There was one staff person that I remember who was a Peace Corps staff, who was a native Colombian and was working in the training camp.

[Assistant] Not in Colombia?

[User] Not in Colombia. He was this guy that had been the pilot. Yeah, I don't remember about the others.

[Assistant] So, now you're all finished training. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're going to do when you get to Colombia, right?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK. So what did you do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not in Colombia. He was this guy that had been the pilot. Yeah, I don't remember about the others.

[Assistant] So, now you're all finished training. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're going to do when you get to Colombia, right?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK. So what did you do?

[User] Well, the first thing. Well, one of the interesting things was by this time, we all thought we were pretty good Spanish speakers. You know, this has been like going on for. This was maybe April and has been going on since February and all this intensive language training. And we get off the plane in Bogota and somebody says something to us in Spanish. We all look at each other, what the hell did he say?

[Assistant] So now that the seven of you fly from Puerto Rico to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK. So what did you do?

[User] Well, the first thing. Well, one of the interesting things was by this time, we all thought we were pretty good Spanish speakers. You know, this has been like going on for. This was maybe April and has been going on since February and all this intensive language training. And we get off the plane in Bogota and somebody says something to us in Spanish. We all look at each other, what the hell did he say?

[Assistant] So now that the seven of you fly from Puerto Rico to?

[User] To Bogota. And we got, you know, we landed and we got ourselves, uh, they put us up in a hotel.

[Assistant] Who greeted you when you arrived?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the first thing. Well, one of the interesting things was by this time, we all thought we were pretty good Spanish speakers. You know, this has been like going on for. This was maybe April and has been going on since February and all this intensive language training. And we get off the plane in Bogota and somebody says something to us in Spanish. We all look at each other, what the hell did he say?

[Assistant] So now that the seven of you fly from Puerto Rico to?

[User] To Bogota. And we got, you know, we landed and we got ourselves, uh, they put us up in a hotel.

[Assistant] Who greeted you when you arrived?

[User] Peace Corps staff from Colombia.

[Assistant] Finally. You don't remember who was director at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To Bogota. And we got, you know, we landed and we got ourselves, uh, they put us up in a hotel.

[Assistant] Who greeted you when you arrived?

[User] Peace Corps staff from Colombia.

[Assistant] Finally. You don't remember who was director at that time?

[User] Was Chris Sheldon director then or was he already gone? I can't remember. So we met, you know, and we're in the hotel at night, and at some point we hear this boom. It wasn't thunder, and I don't remember what or what was going, where or when or how or what was happening, but I think the report was a couple of bombs had gone off somewhere in the city and blew up that night. But anyway.

[Assistant] Now at any point in training had there been a discussion of the political situation in Colombia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Peace Corps staff from Colombia.

[Assistant] Finally. You don't remember who was director at that time?

[User] Was Chris Sheldon director then or was he already gone? I can't remember. So we met, you know, and we're in the hotel at night, and at some point we hear this boom. It wasn't thunder, and I don't remember what or what was going, where or when or how or what was happening, but I think the report was a couple of bombs had gone off somewhere in the city and blew up that night. But anyway.

[Assistant] Now at any point in training had there been a discussion of the political situation in Colombia?

[User] Oh yeah, oh no. We had a lot.

[Assistant] When you were at L.A. State?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Was Chris Sheldon director then or was he already gone? I can't remember. So we met, you know, and we're in the hotel at night, and at some point we hear this boom. It wasn't thunder, and I don't remember what or what was going, where or when or how or what was happening, but I think the report was a couple of bombs had gone off somewhere in the city and blew up that night. But anyway.

[Assistant] Now at any point in training had there been a discussion of the political situation in Colombia?

[User] Oh yeah, oh no. We had a lot.

[Assistant] When you were at L.A. State?

[User] Yeah, in L.A. state and probably Puerto Rico, all I remember. But because this was the sixties and Colombia was just coming out of the La Violencia period where, you know, there was an agreement between the liberal and conservative parties to switch the presidency every whatever it was, to try to mitigate the violence. So that was very, very much part of the conversations that we had on the political situation and the history of politics in Colombia.

[Assistant] But did anyone talk about you might be being put in an area where you're at risk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, oh no. We had a lot.

[Assistant] When you were at L.A. State?

[User] Yeah, in L.A. state and probably Puerto Rico, all I remember. But because this was the sixties and Colombia was just coming out of the La Violencia period where, you know, there was an agreement between the liberal and conservative parties to switch the presidency every whatever it was, to try to mitigate the violence. So that was very, very much part of the conversations that we had on the political situation and the history of politics in Colombia.

[Assistant] But did anyone talk about you might be being put in an area where you're at risk?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were just, you were aware of generically.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, in L.A. state and probably Puerto Rico, all I remember. But because this was the sixties and Colombia was just coming out of the La Violencia period where, you know, there was an agreement between the liberal and conservative parties to switch the presidency every whatever it was, to try to mitigate the violence. So that was very, very much part of the conversations that we had on the political situation and the history of politics in Colombia.

[Assistant] But did anyone talk about you might be being put in an area where you're at risk?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were just, you were aware of generically.

[User] Generically. And then the other thing that was really starting to happen that I wasn't aware of and very peripherally until I started reading the newspapers was the rise of the guerrilla movement, the communist guerilla movement in the '60s, that was starting to happen in Colombia as well.

[Assistant] Right. Let's go back to your arrival now. You're in country, you're realizing that there's more than one kind of Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were just, you were aware of generically.

[User] Generically. And then the other thing that was really starting to happen that I wasn't aware of and very peripherally until I started reading the newspapers was the rise of the guerrilla movement, the communist guerilla movement in the '60s, that was starting to happen in Colombia as well.

[Assistant] Right. Let's go back to your arrival now. You're in country, you're realizing that there's more than one kind of Spanish.

[User] Now I'm trying to remember, I know that Sam and Maureen, they were in a community development group. And they didn't train with us. Well, I have to go back and look at my pictures, but anyway, when we got to the Peace Corps office the next morning, it wasn't just us. There was also this group of community development volunteers.

[Assistant] Right. A larger group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Generically. And then the other thing that was really starting to happen that I wasn't aware of and very peripherally until I started reading the newspapers was the rise of the guerrilla movement, the communist guerilla movement in the '60s, that was starting to happen in Colombia as well.

[Assistant] Right. Let's go back to your arrival now. You're in country, you're realizing that there's more than one kind of Spanish.

[User] Now I'm trying to remember, I know that Sam and Maureen, they were in a community development group. And they didn't train with us. Well, I have to go back and look at my pictures, but anyway, when we got to the Peace Corps office the next morning, it wasn't just us. There was also this group of community development volunteers.

[Assistant] Right. A larger group.

[User] A larger group. Yeah. And I don't know, whatever speeches were made and the welcoming and the whole whatever it was all about and everything. And then we were probably introduced, I'm guessing to, you know, to staff and talked about the procedures and the Peace Corps doctors and whatever. And then eventually then they started assigning people to their destinations.

[Assistant] Do you recall if there was a swearing in ceremony?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Now I'm trying to remember, I know that Sam and Maureen, they were in a community development group. And they didn't train with us. Well, I have to go back and look at my pictures, but anyway, when we got to the Peace Corps office the next morning, it wasn't just us. There was also this group of community development volunteers.

[Assistant] Right. A larger group.

[User] A larger group. Yeah. And I don't know, whatever speeches were made and the welcoming and the whole whatever it was all about and everything. And then we were probably introduced, I'm guessing to, you know, to staff and talked about the procedures and the Peace Corps doctors and whatever. And then eventually then they started assigning people to their destinations.

[Assistant] Do you recall if there was a swearing in ceremony?

[User] Yeah, there was. And I don't remember where it was. I don't remember.

[Assistant] Sometimes the ambassador does that. You just know it happened.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A larger group. Yeah. And I don't know, whatever speeches were made and the welcoming and the whole whatever it was all about and everything. And then we were probably introduced, I'm guessing to, you know, to staff and talked about the procedures and the Peace Corps doctors and whatever. And then eventually then they started assigning people to their destinations.

[Assistant] Do you recall if there was a swearing in ceremony?

[User] Yeah, there was. And I don't remember where it was. I don't remember.

[Assistant] Sometimes the ambassador does that. You just know it happened.

[User] Yeah, I forgot until you mentioned it, but I said, oh yeah, there was a swearing in ceremony.

[Assistant] So now the business of being in Bogota is to get your assignment


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, there was. And I don't remember where it was. I don't remember.

[Assistant] Sometimes the ambassador does that. You just know it happened.

[User] Yeah, I forgot until you mentioned it, but I said, oh yeah, there was a swearing in ceremony.

[Assistant] So now the business of being in Bogota is to get your assignment

[User] Right. Well, be welcomed in country and meet the staff and get our assignments.

[Assistant] Did they take you aside and begin interviewing you about, do you want to be assigned alone, are you more interested in this kind of work, that kind of work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Well, be welcomed in country and meet the staff and get our assignments.

[Assistant] Did they take you aside and begin interviewing you about, do you want to be assigned alone, are you more interested in this kind of work, that kind of work?

[User] No, I don't remember that. Not for our group anyway. Because there are eight of us and we all went, the eight of us went to different places.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Or whatever the number was.

[Assistant] How was that decided?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't remember that. Not for our group anyway. Because there are eight of us and we all went, the eight of us went to different places.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Or whatever the number was.

[Assistant] How was that decided?

[User] I have no idea. I mean, you know.

[Assistant] Well, talk about getting your assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or whatever the number was.

[Assistant] How was that decided?

[User] I have no idea. I mean, you know.

[Assistant] Well, talk about getting your assignment.

[User] The architects got assigned to work with Colombian architects, government architects in some kind of government program. And I don't remember how many architects we were, were we only. Maybe there were six of us. There were two architects and four engineers. Um, so anyway, so I got assigned to go to Medellin.

[Assistant] All right. Is that a regional headquarters or a district headquarters?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have no idea. I mean, you know.

[Assistant] Well, talk about getting your assignment.

[User] The architects got assigned to work with Colombian architects, government architects in some kind of government program. And I don't remember how many architects we were, were we only. Maybe there were six of us. There were two architects and four engineers. Um, so anyway, so I got assigned to go to Medellin.

[Assistant] All right. Is that a regional headquarters or a district headquarters?

[User] For?

[Assistant] Well, like state?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The architects got assigned to work with Colombian architects, government architects in some kind of government program. And I don't remember how many architects we were, were we only. Maybe there were six of us. There were two architects and four engineers. Um, so anyway, so I got assigned to go to Medellin.

[Assistant] All right. Is that a regional headquarters or a district headquarters?

[User] For?

[Assistant] Well, like state?

[User] Oh, well, it's a state capital. Medellin is the capital of the province of Antioquia.

[Assistant] OK. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For?

[Assistant] Well, like state?

[User] Oh, well, it's a state capital. Medellin is the capital of the province of Antioquia.

[Assistant] OK. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah.

[User] And at that time was a city of about 500,000 people. And I went to work in an office that was funded by the Alliance for Progress. And it's charter was a comprehensive educational development program. So in that office, there were Colombians and there were volunteers. They were writing curriculum. They were writing and publishing textbooks. They were designing and building schools. They were training teachers.

[Assistant] Were these Peace Corps volunteers or other volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, well, it's a state capital. Medellin is the capital of the province of Antioquia.

[Assistant] OK. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah.

[User] And at that time was a city of about 500,000 people. And I went to work in an office that was funded by the Alliance for Progress. And it's charter was a comprehensive educational development program. So in that office, there were Colombians and there were volunteers. They were writing curriculum. They were writing and publishing textbooks. They were designing and building schools. They were training teachers.

[Assistant] Were these Peace Corps volunteers or other volunteers?

[User] No, there were some Peace Corps volunteers, but it was Colombian government funded, I mean, you know, yeah, running the office and the programs. But there were volunteers that worked in the office.

[Assistant] So how did you get from Bogota to Medellin?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, there were some Peace Corps volunteers, but it was Colombian government funded, I mean, you know, yeah, running the office and the programs. But there were volunteers that worked in the office.

[Assistant] So how did you get from Bogota to Medellin?

[User] We got on a plane.

[Assistant] We now?

[User] I mean, everybody, whatever the other volunteers that were going to Medellin because.

[Assistant] So you were the only architect?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We got on a plane.

[Assistant] We now?

[User] I mean, everybody, whatever the other volunteers that were going to Medellin because.

[Assistant] So you were the only architect?

[User] I was the only architect

[Assistant] And there may have been some community development, maybe an engineer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, everybody, whatever the other volunteers that were going to Medellin because.

[Assistant] So you were the only architect?

[User] I was the only architect

[Assistant] And there may have been some community development, maybe an engineer.

[User] No, it was just community development and myself.

[Assistant] Now was there any kind of wrench in your group finally breaking up? You must have become pretty tight all through training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was the only architect

[Assistant] And there may have been some community development, maybe an engineer.

[User] No, it was just community development and myself.

[Assistant] Now was there any kind of wrench in your group finally breaking up? You must have become pretty tight all through training.

[User] A wrench? I don't remember I was kind of. I mean, it was kind of like, well, can we stay in touch, yeah, we can stay in touch, or whatever.

[Assistant] Right. And what about, classically people talk about culture shock at some point.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was just community development and myself.

[Assistant] Now was there any kind of wrench in your group finally breaking up? You must have become pretty tight all through training.

[User] A wrench? I don't remember I was kind of. I mean, it was kind of like, well, can we stay in touch, yeah, we can stay in touch, or whatever.

[Assistant] Right. And what about, classically people talk about culture shock at some point.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] You're suddenly aware that you are in an environment, a very different cultural environment. It doesn't happen to everyone, but.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A wrench? I don't remember I was kind of. I mean, it was kind of like, well, can we stay in touch, yeah, we can stay in touch, or whatever.

[Assistant] Right. And what about, classically people talk about culture shock at some point.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] You're suddenly aware that you are in an environment, a very different cultural environment. It doesn't happen to everyone, but.

[User] No, good question. That's a really good question. I mean, the reverse culture shock when I came home was very apparent. But the culture shock being there, I don't know. When did that? I mean, when did I really?

[Assistant] Was there a point you said, well, you know, this is just, this is not like Chicago or this is exactly like Chicago?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] You're suddenly aware that you are in an environment, a very different cultural environment. It doesn't happen to everyone, but.

[User] No, good question. That's a really good question. I mean, the reverse culture shock when I came home was very apparent. But the culture shock being there, I don't know. When did that? I mean, when did I really?

[Assistant] Was there a point you said, well, you know, this is just, this is not like Chicago or this is exactly like Chicago?

[User] Yeah, it was, you know, it was warm and sunny every day. It's not like Chicago. Yeah.

[Assistant] So go ahead.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, good question. That's a really good question. I mean, the reverse culture shock when I came home was very apparent. But the culture shock being there, I don't know. When did that? I mean, when did I really?

[Assistant] Was there a point you said, well, you know, this is just, this is not like Chicago or this is exactly like Chicago?

[User] Yeah, it was, you know, it was warm and sunny every day. It's not like Chicago. Yeah.

[Assistant] So go ahead.

[User] Maybe some things I think if we keep talking will come to my mind.

[Assistant] OK, because we'll talk more about language. Talk about your first three or four days in Medellin. I mean, you have to find a place to get a place to stay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was, you know, it was warm and sunny every day. It's not like Chicago. Yeah.

[Assistant] So go ahead.

[User] Maybe some things I think if we keep talking will come to my mind.

[Assistant] OK, because we'll talk more about language. Talk about your first three or four days in Medellin. I mean, you have to find a place to get a place to stay.

[User] OK. There was already a volunteer who was working in this office. So he was already there and he had had a place and I moved in with him. Because there was room, so I just moved in with him. And I don't remember, I just, I don't remember the first day in the office or. I guess I was met, I guess I was met by the volunteer leader. I think. The volunteer leader. So we talk about staff, so it was the volunteer leader I think that met me and probably took me to where I was going to live. May have taken me to the office to meet the architect that was in charge of the office and the other people, I don't remember that. Certainly took me to the Peace Corps office to meet the Peace Corps staff that was there.

[Assistant] Now, in a way, you were different than other volunteers, being the first architect to come into the Peace Corps program there. Am I correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe some things I think if we keep talking will come to my mind.

[Assistant] OK, because we'll talk more about language. Talk about your first three or four days in Medellin. I mean, you have to find a place to get a place to stay.

[User] OK. There was already a volunteer who was working in this office. So he was already there and he had had a place and I moved in with him. Because there was room, so I just moved in with him. And I don't remember, I just, I don't remember the first day in the office or. I guess I was met, I guess I was met by the volunteer leader. I think. The volunteer leader. So we talk about staff, so it was the volunteer leader I think that met me and probably took me to where I was going to live. May have taken me to the office to meet the architect that was in charge of the office and the other people, I don't remember that. Certainly took me to the Peace Corps office to meet the Peace Corps staff that was there.

[Assistant] Now, in a way, you were different than other volunteers, being the first architect to come into the Peace Corps program there. Am I correct?

[User] Oh, I'm just thinking. There had been, there was an architect already working there. A Peace Corps volunteer architect living there, working there.

[Assistant] Yeah, but that wasn't the person you room with.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] OK. There was already a volunteer who was working in this office. So he was already there and he had had a place and I moved in with him. Because there was room, so I just moved in with him. And I don't remember, I just, I don't remember the first day in the office or. I guess I was met, I guess I was met by the volunteer leader. I think. The volunteer leader. So we talk about staff, so it was the volunteer leader I think that met me and probably took me to where I was going to live. May have taken me to the office to meet the architect that was in charge of the office and the other people, I don't remember that. Certainly took me to the Peace Corps office to meet the Peace Corps staff that was there.

[Assistant] Now, in a way, you were different than other volunteers, being the first architect to come into the Peace Corps program there. Am I correct?

[User] Oh, I'm just thinking. There had been, there was an architect already working there. A Peace Corps volunteer architect living there, working there.

[Assistant] Yeah, but that wasn't the person you room with.

[User] Yeah, that was the person I roomed with.

[Assistant] OK. And you were both assigned to the same?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I'm just thinking. There had been, there was an architect already working there. A Peace Corps volunteer architect living there, working there.

[Assistant] Yeah, but that wasn't the person you room with.

[User] Yeah, that was the person I roomed with.

[Assistant] OK. And you were both assigned to the same?

[User] Right, to the same office.

[Assistant] You had an apartment. Did you do your own cooking? Did you have some?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that was the person I roomed with.

[Assistant] OK. And you were both assigned to the same?

[User] Right, to the same office.

[Assistant] You had an apartment. Did you do your own cooking? Did you have some?

[User] Yeah, we did our own cooking. We lived, actually, we lived in a very blue-collar neighborhood that was probably a, in those days, maybe 20-minute bus ride from the center of Medellin, from downtown Medellin. We did our, yeah, we did our own, well. We did our own cooking. We lived on the second floor and the landlord had a little store in the first floor. And we'd go down there in the morning, usually buy a couple of eggs from him and some baloney and a couple of oranges or whatever and make breakfast in the morning and go to work. I mean, it was, you know, it was like a nine to five job, except it wasn't like a job.

[Assistant] And to get to work, you would take the bus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, to the same office.

[Assistant] You had an apartment. Did you do your own cooking? Did you have some?

[User] Yeah, we did our own cooking. We lived, actually, we lived in a very blue-collar neighborhood that was probably a, in those days, maybe 20-minute bus ride from the center of Medellin, from downtown Medellin. We did our, yeah, we did our own, well. We did our own cooking. We lived on the second floor and the landlord had a little store in the first floor. And we'd go down there in the morning, usually buy a couple of eggs from him and some baloney and a couple of oranges or whatever and make breakfast in the morning and go to work. I mean, it was, you know, it was like a nine to five job, except it wasn't like a job.

[Assistant] And to get to work, you would take the bus?

[User] I'd just get on the bus, walk a couple of blocks to get on the bus and get off a couple of blocks from the office.

[Assistant] Along with this other architect. So you sort of had an in- between center, to smooth the way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we did our own cooking. We lived, actually, we lived in a very blue-collar neighborhood that was probably a, in those days, maybe 20-minute bus ride from the center of Medellin, from downtown Medellin. We did our, yeah, we did our own, well. We did our own cooking. We lived on the second floor and the landlord had a little store in the first floor. And we'd go down there in the morning, usually buy a couple of eggs from him and some baloney and a couple of oranges or whatever and make breakfast in the morning and go to work. I mean, it was, you know, it was like a nine to five job, except it wasn't like a job.

[Assistant] And to get to work, you would take the bus?

[User] I'd just get on the bus, walk a couple of blocks to get on the bus and get off a couple of blocks from the office.

[Assistant] Along with this other architect. So you sort of had an in- between center, to smooth the way?

[User] Right. Yeah, absolutely.

[Assistant] Let's talk, if you can, about your settling into working in that office, what you were doing and with whom you were working.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd just get on the bus, walk a couple of blocks to get on the bus and get off a couple of blocks from the office.

[Assistant] Along with this other architect. So you sort of had an in- between center, to smooth the way?

[User] Right. Yeah, absolutely.

[Assistant] Let's talk, if you can, about your settling into working in that office, what you were doing and with whom you were working.

[User] The office was doing a lot of schools, designing a lot of schools. Our particular job, the other architect and myself, was to work on the rural schools. The office was also doing the urban schools around the city and environs. And the schools that we were doing were typically one-room schools with a little living quarters for a teacher. What I like to say when I talk about rural, I'm talking about, you know, two hours by train, an hour by bus, and another 45 minutes by horse. I mean, it was really rural schools.

[Assistant] And this is going to be concrete block construction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah, absolutely.

[Assistant] Let's talk, if you can, about your settling into working in that office, what you were doing and with whom you were working.

[User] The office was doing a lot of schools, designing a lot of schools. Our particular job, the other architect and myself, was to work on the rural schools. The office was also doing the urban schools around the city and environs. And the schools that we were doing were typically one-room schools with a little living quarters for a teacher. What I like to say when I talk about rural, I'm talking about, you know, two hours by train, an hour by bus, and another 45 minutes by horse. I mean, it was really rural schools.

[Assistant] And this is going to be concrete block construction?

[User] And they were schools in areas where there were community development Peace Corps volunteers working with the community. And the community, you know, they said, we want to build a school. Ok, we'll build a whole school. So Howard comes out, Peter comes out, we look things over and then we design a school.

[Assistant] Was the funding of the construction materials through USAID?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The office was doing a lot of schools, designing a lot of schools. Our particular job, the other architect and myself, was to work on the rural schools. The office was also doing the urban schools around the city and environs. And the schools that we were doing were typically one-room schools with a little living quarters for a teacher. What I like to say when I talk about rural, I'm talking about, you know, two hours by train, an hour by bus, and another 45 minutes by horse. I mean, it was really rural schools.

[Assistant] And this is going to be concrete block construction?

[User] And they were schools in areas where there were community development Peace Corps volunteers working with the community. And the community, you know, they said, we want to build a school. Ok, we'll build a whole school. So Howard comes out, Peter comes out, we look things over and then we design a school.

[Assistant] Was the funding of the construction materials through USAID?

[User] It came from the Colombian government. And I don't know, you know, if it was, I suspect it was the Alliance for Progress money. But anyway, it came from, all the materials came from the government, the Colombian government, and pay for a supervisor or superintendent came from the government.

[Assistant] So now initially, you're sitting in this office in Medellin. I mean, how complicated is it to design a one-room schoolhouse? Are you doing all the detailed drawings?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It came from the Colombian government. And I don't know, you know, if it was, I suspect it was the Alliance for Progress money. But anyway, it came from, all the materials came from the government, the Colombian government, and pay for a supervisor or superintendent came from the government.

[Assistant] So now initially, you're sitting in this office in Medellin. I mean, how complicated is it to design a one-room schoolhouse? Are you doing all the detailed drawings?

[User] Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Everything.

[User] Everything. Well, it wasn't that complicated, except I was working in the metric system, so I had to learn how to do that, which was, actually it was pretty good.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have a Colombian counterpart?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Everything.

[User] Everything. Well, it wasn't that complicated, except I was working in the metric system, so I had to learn how to do that, which was, actually it was pretty good.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have a Colombian counterpart?

[User] Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there were two other architects. Raul Gonzalez, who was the head of the office. And then his name may come to me. And then he had an assistant, Dr. Morales, who was also a Colombian architect. So there were four architects in the office.

[Assistant] Got it. Now the question, why were you needed there? Why couldn't someone Colombian do it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there were two other architects. Raul Gonzalez, who was the head of the office. And then his name may come to me. And then he had an assistant, Dr. Morales, who was also a Colombian architect. So there were four architects in the office.

[Assistant] Got it. Now the question, why were you needed there? Why couldn't someone Colombian do it?

[User] No, that's a good question. I have no idea, I mean, I, you know, whether it was because the remoteness of the sites and the non- desirability of, you know, rolling up your sleeves after getting a degree from a Colombian university as an architect and going out and doing that stuff. I remember that I, either while I was there or, there was a program that had been initiated for physicians to go out and work in the rural towns. It was a mandate that they had to do that. But it hadn't, I guess, spilled over to other professions yet.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because I mean, because these, as I said, these sites were really, really out there.

[Assistant] Well, let's go back to the work you're doing. How long was it that you stayed in the office before going out to a site?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, that's a good question. I have no idea, I mean, I, you know, whether it was because the remoteness of the sites and the non- desirability of, you know, rolling up your sleeves after getting a degree from a Colombian university as an architect and going out and doing that stuff. I remember that I, either while I was there or, there was a program that had been initiated for physicians to go out and work in the rural towns. It was a mandate that they had to do that. But it hadn't, I guess, spilled over to other professions yet.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because I mean, because these, as I said, these sites were really, really out there.

[Assistant] Well, let's go back to the work you're doing. How long was it that you stayed in the office before going out to a site?

[User] I don't know. It, you know, probably wasn't. I don't know. I've looked for, I know I brought home a copy of my monthly reports. I don't know where it disappeared. I've got my termination report, but that doesn't have, you know. But it was probably within the first month, I'm sure, or six weeks or so before I went out someplace.

[Assistant] During that initial period, what was happening with your Spanish, with your language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because I mean, because these, as I said, these sites were really, really out there.

[Assistant] Well, let's go back to the work you're doing. How long was it that you stayed in the office before going out to a site?

[User] I don't know. It, you know, probably wasn't. I don't know. I've looked for, I know I brought home a copy of my monthly reports. I don't know where it disappeared. I've got my termination report, but that doesn't have, you know. But it was probably within the first month, I'm sure, or six weeks or so before I went out someplace.

[Assistant] During that initial period, what was happening with your Spanish, with your language?

[User] Well, I was, you know, using it every day. I had to use it every day. I had to speak, you know, except at home.

[Assistant] How did you use it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. It, you know, probably wasn't. I don't know. I've looked for, I know I brought home a copy of my monthly reports. I don't know where it disappeared. I've got my termination report, but that doesn't have, you know. But it was probably within the first month, I'm sure, or six weeks or so before I went out someplace.

[Assistant] During that initial period, what was happening with your Spanish, with your language?

[User] Well, I was, you know, using it every day. I had to use it every day. I had to speak, you know, except at home.

[Assistant] How did you use it?

[User] Well, communicated in the office and communicated on the street and on the busses and the restaurants.

[Assistant] And how did it go for the first? You recall getting on the wrong bus or getting?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was, you know, using it every day. I had to use it every day. I had to speak, you know, except at home.

[Assistant] How did you use it?

[User] Well, communicated in the office and communicated on the street and on the busses and the restaurants.

[Assistant] And how did it go for the first? You recall getting on the wrong bus or getting?

[User] No, I never got on the wrong bus. I never got the wrong food. I think it was just that, you know, there was there was a lot of, could you please repeat, that I didn't quite understand you. I think about six, seven, eight months after I got there, I finally said, oh god, I'm thinking in Spanish, I'm not translating.

[Assistant] Yeah, but that's six, six, eight months.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, communicated in the office and communicated on the street and on the busses and the restaurants.

[Assistant] And how did it go for the first? You recall getting on the wrong bus or getting?

[User] No, I never got on the wrong bus. I never got the wrong food. I think it was just that, you know, there was there was a lot of, could you please repeat, that I didn't quite understand you. I think about six, seven, eight months after I got there, I finally said, oh god, I'm thinking in Spanish, I'm not translating.

[Assistant] Yeah, but that's six, six, eight months.

[User] Yeah, yeah, no. It took a while. I mean, there's no question about it. It took a while.

[Assistant] In the initial stages, the Colombians you meeting on the street, the bus, the store, what was their perception of who you are?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah, no. It took a while. I mean, there's no question about it. It took a while.

[Assistant] In the initial stages, the Colombians you meeting on the street, the bus, the store, what was their perception of who you are?

[User] Um, well, let me put it this way. Colombia is a Catholic country. The hierarchy was something like Kennedy, the Virgin Mary, the Pope, and God.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So Kennedy, I mean, people were just enamored with Kennedy. And so you're an American. Did you know Kennedy? You know, that kind of stuff.

[Assistant] So you immediately perceived as American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, let me put it this way. Colombia is a Catholic country. The hierarchy was something like Kennedy, the Virgin Mary, the Pope, and God.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So Kennedy, I mean, people were just enamored with Kennedy. And so you're an American. Did you know Kennedy? You know, that kind of stuff.

[Assistant] So you immediately perceived as American?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In other words, not a Colombian.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So Kennedy, I mean, people were just enamored with Kennedy. And so you're an American. Did you know Kennedy? You know, that kind of stuff.

[Assistant] So you immediately perceived as American?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In other words, not a Colombian.

[User] Not a Colombian. No, somebody from the United States. So yeah, very, very accepted.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was it your language that was the giveaway or your appearance?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In other words, not a Colombian.

[User] Not a Colombian. No, somebody from the United States. So yeah, very, very accepted.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was it your language that was the giveaway or your appearance?

[User] Probably my red hair and white skin, sunburned skin. And yeah, and the language, I'm sure too.

[Assistant] Yeah. Let's take stay within the first couple of months. There must have been some free time. You didn't work seven days a week.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not a Colombian. No, somebody from the United States. So yeah, very, very accepted.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was it your language that was the giveaway or your appearance?

[User] Probably my red hair and white skin, sunburned skin. And yeah, and the language, I'm sure too.

[Assistant] Yeah. Let's take stay within the first couple of months. There must have been some free time. You didn't work seven days a week.

[User] No. Evenings were free. I mean, again, it was a nine to five job. I didn't have meetings to go to in the evenings, you know, like. So I mean, so there was always getting together at restaurants for dinner, meeting other volunteers.

[Assistant] So pretty much what emerged was you socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably my red hair and white skin, sunburned skin. And yeah, and the language, I'm sure too.

[Assistant] Yeah. Let's take stay within the first couple of months. There must have been some free time. You didn't work seven days a week.

[User] No. Evenings were free. I mean, again, it was a nine to five job. I didn't have meetings to go to in the evenings, you know, like. So I mean, so there was always getting together at restaurants for dinner, meeting other volunteers.

[Assistant] So pretty much what emerged was you socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers.

[User] For the most part, socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers, sometimes with other Colombians. It just depended on. But mostly with other volunteers.

[Assistant] Was there any pressure? It became a big issue at various times that that's inappropriate, you're here because you're supposed to be involved with Colombians, you should be. If you have free time, you should go and build a latrine in the backyard or something like that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the most part, socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers, sometimes with other Colombians. It just depended on. But mostly with other volunteers.

[Assistant] Was there any pressure? It became a big issue at various times that that's inappropriate, you're here because you're supposed to be involved with Colombians, you should be. If you have free time, you should go and build a latrine in the backyard or something like that.

[User] No, not. I don't think so. Not for us.

[Assistant] OK. OK.

[User] Not for us. I mean, I think if you're. Well, let me back up, I left out something completely. Before I went to Medellin, I went to a small town in Antioquia for a couple of months, and lived with a volunteer, a community development volunteer who was already there. So that I could, again, acculturate, acclimate language, and also find out about how the community development process and programs work. So there we really did spend a lot of time with Colombians because he and I were the two Americans in this town of 1,500 people.

[Assistant] Right, right. Were there any construction projects going on at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not. I don't think so. Not for us.

[Assistant] OK. OK.

[User] Not for us. I mean, I think if you're. Well, let me back up, I left out something completely. Before I went to Medellin, I went to a small town in Antioquia for a couple of months, and lived with a volunteer, a community development volunteer who was already there. So that I could, again, acculturate, acclimate language, and also find out about how the community development process and programs work. So there we really did spend a lot of time with Colombians because he and I were the two Americans in this town of 1,500 people.

[Assistant] Right, right. Were there any construction projects going on at that time?

[User] Not there. No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were pretty much free just to explore what the town was like.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not for us. I mean, I think if you're. Well, let me back up, I left out something completely. Before I went to Medellin, I went to a small town in Antioquia for a couple of months, and lived with a volunteer, a community development volunteer who was already there. So that I could, again, acculturate, acclimate language, and also find out about how the community development process and programs work. So there we really did spend a lot of time with Colombians because he and I were the two Americans in this town of 1,500 people.

[Assistant] Right, right. Were there any construction projects going on at that time?

[User] Not there. No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were pretty much free just to explore what the town was like.

[User] Yeah, yeah. I mean, but he had stuff going on, and I just sort of fell into it. Working with the local, the coffee federation had a counterpart community development person that he was working with. And so in that town and in several other, you know, going around there. He'd been there. Jim had probably been there maybe a year and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah, at least a year, maybe a little more than a year.

[Assistant] So this, in a way, was additional training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not there. No.

[Assistant] OK. So you were pretty much free just to explore what the town was like.

[User] Yeah, yeah. I mean, but he had stuff going on, and I just sort of fell into it. Working with the local, the coffee federation had a counterpart community development person that he was working with. And so in that town and in several other, you know, going around there. He'd been there. Jim had probably been there maybe a year and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah, at least a year, maybe a little more than a year.

[Assistant] So this, in a way, was additional training.

[User] Oh yeah, this was additional training. I mean, I just.

[Assistant] Another two months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. I mean, but he had stuff going on, and I just sort of fell into it. Working with the local, the coffee federation had a counterpart community development person that he was working with. And so in that town and in several other, you know, going around there. He'd been there. Jim had probably been there maybe a year and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah, at least a year, maybe a little more than a year.

[Assistant] So this, in a way, was additional training.

[User] Oh yeah, this was additional training. I mean, I just.

[Assistant] Another two months?

[User] Another two or three months, yeah. And so that was really good, I mean, and then like I got used to the transportation system, such as it was. We'd go into, I mean, we'd go into Medellin and catch the bus going to Medellin in the morning, maybe stay there one day, maybe come back the same day. I mean that those days it was a two, three hour bus ride. And I had a horse. Had my horse.

[Assistant] At what point did you get the horse?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, this was additional training. I mean, I just.

[Assistant] Another two months?

[User] Another two or three months, yeah. And so that was really good, I mean, and then like I got used to the transportation system, such as it was. We'd go into, I mean, we'd go into Medellin and catch the bus going to Medellin in the morning, maybe stay there one day, maybe come back the same day. I mean that those days it was a two, three hour bus ride. And I had a horse. Had my horse.

[Assistant] At what point did you get the horse?

[User] In this small town, because that's how we got around from the.

[Assistant] Was that a first for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Another two or three months, yeah. And so that was really good, I mean, and then like I got used to the transportation system, such as it was. We'd go into, I mean, we'd go into Medellin and catch the bus going to Medellin in the morning, maybe stay there one day, maybe come back the same day. I mean that those days it was a two, three hour bus ride. And I had a horse. Had my horse.

[Assistant] At what point did you get the horse?

[User] In this small town, because that's how we got around from the.

[Assistant] Was that a first for you?

[User] It wasn't the first time I'd ridden a horse. It's the first time I had a horse, I mean, and took care of it.

[Assistant] Not many people in Chicago.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In this small town, because that's how we got around from the.

[Assistant] Was that a first for you?

[User] It wasn't the first time I'd ridden a horse. It's the first time I had a horse, I mean, and took care of it.

[Assistant] Not many people in Chicago.

[User] Right. Yeah. And then I learned, you know, I learned how to saddle a horse.

[Assistant] You didn't have to care for the horse, did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It wasn't the first time I'd ridden a horse. It's the first time I had a horse, I mean, and took care of it.

[Assistant] Not many people in Chicago.

[User] Right. Yeah. And then I learned, you know, I learned how to saddle a horse.

[Assistant] You didn't have to care for the horse, did you?

[User] No, it was kept in a stable.

[Assistant] OK. So now you're back in Medellin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah. And then I learned, you know, I learned how to saddle a horse.

[Assistant] You didn't have to care for the horse, did you?

[User] No, it was kept in a stable.

[Assistant] OK. So now you're back in Medellin.

[User] Then I went to Medellin.

[Assistant] Yeah, then and you've done, you're working in the office, you're socializing somewhat with other Peace Corps people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was kept in a stable.

[Assistant] OK. So now you're back in Medellin.

[User] Then I went to Medellin.

[Assistant] Yeah, then and you've done, you're working in the office, you're socializing somewhat with other Peace Corps people.

[User] Yeah. And we met, you know, we'd meet other Colombians somehow or other young people. People know people. And you know, you go to a party once in a while, you meet other people and stuff like things.

[Assistant] But you wouldn't, you inviting Colombians to come into your apartment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And we met, you know, we'd meet other Colombians somehow or other young people. People know people. And you know, you go to a party once in a while, you meet other people and stuff like things.

[Assistant] But you wouldn't, you inviting Colombians to come into your apartment?

[User] No. Our, where we lived, the apartment came with a Colombian. Or a Colombian came with the apartment, I don't know how you want to phrase it.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Very interesting guy. And this story goes back to a little story during training. A lot of us got fuzzy at the camp during training and then we went out on our little two-day hike, you know, they said, shave. No facial hair. Because the, you know, the guerilla stuff was, you know. Castro and Che and the whole nine yards. So let's go back to Colombia. So the men are all, they've got mustaches, but nobody wears a beard. Except for our companero Picasso Goralo, who had his full beard. He almost looked a little bit like a dark Fidel. But anyway, he just, as it was explained, he just kind of came with the house.

[Assistant] Was he a spy for the government?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Our, where we lived, the apartment came with a Colombian. Or a Colombian came with the apartment, I don't know how you want to phrase it.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Very interesting guy. And this story goes back to a little story during training. A lot of us got fuzzy at the camp during training and then we went out on our little two-day hike, you know, they said, shave. No facial hair. Because the, you know, the guerilla stuff was, you know. Castro and Che and the whole nine yards. So let's go back to Colombia. So the men are all, they've got mustaches, but nobody wears a beard. Except for our companero Picasso Goralo, who had his full beard. He almost looked a little bit like a dark Fidel. But anyway, he just, as it was explained, he just kind of came with the house.

[Assistant] Was he a spy for the government?

[User] No, he was the nicest, gentlest guy. Yeah, and talk about language. I mean, he was, I'm not sure what his education was. His work was he was a body and fender man. But, I mean, we would go to parties and he would come. He'd put on a sport jacket with his Levi's and we'd go to parties and people would ask them what university he taught at or what his subject area was because he was so well-spoken. And for the two years that I knew him, he was still reading Don Quixote. But he was. I mean, so yes. So we spoke, I mean, a lot of Spanish because he didn't speak English. Or he spoke a little English. But he was great because he would really help us with our Spanish. No, no, you don't say this. What you want to say is, so he'd correct me.

[Assistant] Kind of like an informant or mentor to the culture.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And he would. I mean, he lived there. It was interesting. We had an apartment on the second floor. We had a kind of a small living room and there were two bedrooms and a little alcove was kind of a dining area and a small kitchen, and the shower was on the roof. It was one of these, you know, make sure you have the water running before you plug it in showers. And there was kind of a little bench up there and a little sheltered area, and that's where he slept. He lived up there.

[Assistant] Was he related to the family that you were renting from?

[User] No, I don't believe so. I mean, the story was that actually he was related to a very wealthy family in Colombia that was a soft drink manufacturer. I mean, his name or his last, his mother's name, was of that family. But I, you know, it was kind of hard to get stuff from him. But anyway, so he was. And he took care of the place. I mean, he swept up the place and whatever. And so he had friends. Sometimes they'd come over and, you know, we'd have parties.

[Assistant] And how were you being paid by then?

[User] Did we get a check or was it just? I guess the answer is poorly.

[Assistant] But that's directly from Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't believe so. I mean, the story was that actually he was related to a very wealthy family in Colombia that was a soft drink manufacturer. I mean, his name or his last, his mother's name, was of that family. But I, you know, it was kind of hard to get stuff from him. But anyway, so he was. And he took care of the place. I mean, he swept up the place and whatever. And so he had friends. Sometimes they'd come over and, you know, we'd have parties.

[Assistant] And how were you being paid by then?

[User] Did we get a check or was it just? I guess the answer is poorly.

[Assistant] But that's directly from Peace Corps?

[User] Directly from Peace Corps. Yeah, we were paid directly from Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, but the poorly was intentional.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Did we get a check or was it just? I guess the answer is poorly.

[Assistant] But that's directly from Peace Corps?

[User] Directly from Peace Corps. Yeah, we were paid directly from Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, but the poorly was intentional.

[User] Oh yeah, no, that's right. Absolutely. Although it wasn't so poorly that we couldn't eat out really well.

[Assistant] Yeah. During the first couple of months, how was your health?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Directly from Peace Corps. Yeah, we were paid directly from Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, but the poorly was intentional.

[User] Oh yeah, no, that's right. Absolutely. Although it wasn't so poorly that we couldn't eat out really well.

[Assistant] Yeah. During the first couple of months, how was your health?

[User] My health. My health while I was there was was great, except for one episode that I had. My health was good. In Puerto Rico it wasn't too bad. I was having a terrible allergic reactions. So I don't know what was going on there.

[Assistant] But let's go then to getting you out from Medellin to some of the sites where you've been doing these drawings. Describe your first early trips out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My health. My health while I was there was was great, except for one episode that I had. My health was good. In Puerto Rico it wasn't too bad. I was having a terrible allergic reactions. So I don't know what was going on there.

[Assistant] But let's go then to getting you out from Medellin to some of the sites where you've been doing these drawings. Describe your first early trips out.

[User] I'm sure I went with my roommate.

[Assistant] With Pete?

[User] Yeah, with Pete. Did we fly? No, I think the first trips were within the department and it was there. There were sites where volunteers were working, actually built two schools, two schools or three schools, for the same volunteers in different communities they were working in.

[Assistant] What did you do when you went out, when you go to the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sure I went with my roommate.

[Assistant] With Pete?

[User] Yeah, with Pete. Did we fly? No, I think the first trips were within the department and it was there. There were sites where volunteers were working, actually built two schools, two schools or three schools, for the same volunteers in different communities they were working in.

[Assistant] What did you do when you went out, when you go to the village?

[User] Well, we went out. We went out once. One time we went out, we surveyed. Oh, I know. We went out and we surveyed for a water line, that might have been the first trip that we had made, actually.

[Assistant] That's not an architect's job.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, with Pete. Did we fly? No, I think the first trips were within the department and it was there. There were sites where volunteers were working, actually built two schools, two schools or three schools, for the same volunteers in different communities they were working in.

[Assistant] What did you do when you went out, when you go to the village?

[User] Well, we went out. We went out once. One time we went out, we surveyed. Oh, I know. We went out and we surveyed for a water line, that might have been the first trip that we had made, actually.

[Assistant] That's not an architect's job.

[User] Well, it is, if you can do a survey, and I can't. But he could so. So we went out. We did. It's the first trip out to this area was actually with my roommate to survey for a water line. And then eventually we went back and and we looked at a site for a school and I designed the school and then went out.

[Assistant] This was relatively close to Medellin?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we went out. We went out once. One time we went out, we surveyed. Oh, I know. We went out and we surveyed for a water line, that might have been the first trip that we had made, actually.

[Assistant] That's not an architect's job.

[User] Well, it is, if you can do a survey, and I can't. But he could so. So we went out. We did. It's the first trip out to this area was actually with my roommate to survey for a water line. And then eventually we went back and and we looked at a site for a school and I designed the school and then went out.

[Assistant] This was relatively close to Medellin?

[User] Well, yeah, two hours by train, one hour by bus, 40 minutes by horse or so. That's relatively close.

[Assistant] You didn't carry your horse on the bus.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yeah, two hours by train, one hour by bus, 40 minutes by horse or so. That's relatively close.

[Assistant] You didn't carry your horse on the bus.

[User] I didn't carry, no, no. They had a horse at the other end. Then went out and, you know, helped them lay out the foundations for where the school and then the community did the work with the, you know, the volunteers helping them get their organization. And we had, I don't know how many times we met, but our group of architects and engineers met in Bogota several times, just as they get together.

[Assistant] Who did?

[User] The Peace Corps. How are you doing? What are you doing? What are the issues? What are the problems and what's working? What's not working? And one of the times that we were there, we went to, I think it was the University of the Andes, but one of the universities in Bogota, where they have what they call the CINVA Center, where they had developed what they call a CINVA-Ram press, which is a machine, a hand operated press, to make building blocks from soil, soil and cement blocks. And for the most part, that's what was used in constructing these schools. They would, the government would send a machine, one of these lock presses, out and then people would go around digging up the soil and make the blocks.

[Assistant] So the first part of the project was producing a thousand blocks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The Peace Corps. How are you doing? What are you doing? What are the issues? What are the problems and what's working? What's not working? And one of the times that we were there, we went to, I think it was the University of the Andes, but one of the universities in Bogota, where they have what they call the CINVA Center, where they had developed what they call a CINVA-Ram press, which is a machine, a hand operated press, to make building blocks from soil, soil and cement blocks. And for the most part, that's what was used in constructing these schools. They would, the government would send a machine, one of these lock presses, out and then people would go around digging up the soil and make the blocks.

[Assistant] So the first part of the project was producing a thousand blocks?

[User] Producing, yeah, whatever it was. And they'd go out and see all these blocks lying out there curing. And then they would build. And they were about the size today of a concrete block that we're familiar with. And the interesting, the fun thing about it was that the blocks took on the color of whatever the local soil was. So the buildings were very much colored by.

[Assistant] Reddish.

[User] And yeah, I mean, if it was clay, it was reddish. If it was not, it would be gray or whatever.

[Assistant] Like with this first visit you mentioned, you were helping lay out the site. Once construction began, did you return to that same site?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Producing, yeah, whatever it was. And they'd go out and see all these blocks lying out there curing. And then they would build. And they were about the size today of a concrete block that we're familiar with. And the interesting, the fun thing about it was that the blocks took on the color of whatever the local soil was. So the buildings were very much colored by.

[Assistant] Reddish.

[User] And yeah, I mean, if it was clay, it was reddish. If it was not, it would be gray or whatever.

[Assistant] Like with this first visit you mentioned, you were helping lay out the site. Once construction began, did you return to that same site?

[User] Yeah. I went out a couple of times. I never, interestingly enough, I never saw a completed building. A completed building. I think they had begun, they were initiated after I'd been in country for quite a while, and the process took long enough. And I never, I mean, I got back to the site several times, but never when one was finished. I mean, I left before they were actually finished.

[Assistant] Were the follow-up visits kind of quality control?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And yeah, I mean, if it was clay, it was reddish. If it was not, it would be gray or whatever.

[Assistant] Like with this first visit you mentioned, you were helping lay out the site. Once construction began, did you return to that same site?

[User] Yeah. I went out a couple of times. I never, interestingly enough, I never saw a completed building. A completed building. I think they had begun, they were initiated after I'd been in country for quite a while, and the process took long enough. And I never, I mean, I got back to the site several times, but never when one was finished. I mean, I left before they were actually finished.

[Assistant] Were the follow-up visits kind of quality control?

[User] I mean, I think honestly was more to get out to the country and see the sights. But just, you know, check on the building. And I liked the volunteers with whom I was working. The program was designed that way. And the people, the Colombians that they worked with, were a lot of fun. And so it's nice to meet, you know, get together with them.

[Assistant] On these visits, usually you would stay overnight in the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I went out a couple of times. I never, interestingly enough, I never saw a completed building. A completed building. I think they had begun, they were initiated after I'd been in country for quite a while, and the process took long enough. And I never, I mean, I got back to the site several times, but never when one was finished. I mean, I left before they were actually finished.

[Assistant] Were the follow-up visits kind of quality control?

[User] I mean, I think honestly was more to get out to the country and see the sights. But just, you know, check on the building. And I liked the volunteers with whom I was working. The program was designed that way. And the people, the Colombians that they worked with, were a lot of fun. And so it's nice to meet, you know, get together with them.

[Assistant] On these visits, usually you would stay overnight in the village?

[User] I'd stay overnight, stay overnight with the volunteers.

[Assistant] Yeah. So we're going through the first year now. You begin, you're working still, you're working in Medellin at the office.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I think honestly was more to get out to the country and see the sights. But just, you know, check on the building. And I liked the volunteers with whom I was working. The program was designed that way. And the people, the Colombians that they worked with, were a lot of fun. And so it's nice to meet, you know, get together with them.

[Assistant] On these visits, usually you would stay overnight in the village?

[User] I'd stay overnight, stay overnight with the volunteers.

[Assistant] Yeah. So we're going through the first year now. You begin, you're working still, you're working in Medellin at the office.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And once a week, once a month, you go out to a site? Any pattern particularly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd stay overnight, stay overnight with the volunteers.

[Assistant] Yeah. So we're going through the first year now. You begin, you're working still, you're working in Medellin at the office.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And once a week, once a month, you go out to a site? Any pattern particularly?

[User] Maybe a couple of times a month, go to different places.

[Assistant] Who decides where you're going to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And once a week, once a month, you go out to a site? Any pattern particularly?

[User] Maybe a couple of times a month, go to different places.

[Assistant] Who decides where you're going to go?

[User] I do.

[Assistant] Based on what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe a couple of times a month, go to different places.

[Assistant] Who decides where you're going to go?

[User] I do.

[Assistant] Based on what?

[User] Based on communications with the volunteers, finding out what, how the project was progressing. Also, well then also going out and seeing other sites. I mean, I went to a whole variety of different places.

[Assistant] How did they communicate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I do.

[Assistant] Based on what?

[User] Based on communications with the volunteers, finding out what, how the project was progressing. Also, well then also going out and seeing other sites. I mean, I went to a whole variety of different places.

[Assistant] How did they communicate?

[User] I think communication. I don't remember much by phone. So it was probably written. Sometimes probably through the Peace Corps office. And I think, I mean, the requests from volunteers and other places could have come from the Peace Corps office.

[Assistant] Even though this was, you were working for a Colombian?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Based on communications with the volunteers, finding out what, how the project was progressing. Also, well then also going out and seeing other sites. I mean, I went to a whole variety of different places.

[Assistant] How did they communicate?

[User] I think communication. I don't remember much by phone. So it was probably written. Sometimes probably through the Peace Corps office. And I think, I mean, the requests from volunteers and other places could have come from the Peace Corps office.

[Assistant] Even though this was, you were working for a Colombian?

[User] Well, this, the office that I worked with was charged with doing work in one state, department, and I did some projects in other places. And I don't remember exactly if the somehow the volunteers in those places got to me through the Peace Corps office or through a volunteer leader or somebody.

[Assistant] But because within the country there were not that many Peace Corps architectural engineers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think communication. I don't remember much by phone. So it was probably written. Sometimes probably through the Peace Corps office. And I think, I mean, the requests from volunteers and other places could have come from the Peace Corps office.

[Assistant] Even though this was, you were working for a Colombian?

[User] Well, this, the office that I worked with was charged with doing work in one state, department, and I did some projects in other places. And I don't remember exactly if the somehow the volunteers in those places got to me through the Peace Corps office or through a volunteer leader or somebody.

[Assistant] But because within the country there were not that many Peace Corps architectural engineers.

[User] No, there weren't.

[Assistant] And I gather that under the Alliance for Progress, there were considerable number of these projects contemplated, in the works.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, this, the office that I worked with was charged with doing work in one state, department, and I did some projects in other places. And I don't remember exactly if the somehow the volunteers in those places got to me through the Peace Corps office or through a volunteer leader or somebody.

[Assistant] But because within the country there were not that many Peace Corps architectural engineers.

[User] No, there weren't.

[Assistant] And I gather that under the Alliance for Progress, there were considerable number of these projects contemplated, in the works.

[User] Um, you know, I did the schools in Antioquia, in the Department of Antioquia, which was, of which Medellin was the capital. I also did a school in the Choco, which is a Pacific coast department. There were volunteers there, and they were working with some teachers. They wanted to build a school. So I went out there and I, you know, did the school out there.

[Assistant] When you say you did a school, I mean, you did the survey?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, there weren't.

[Assistant] And I gather that under the Alliance for Progress, there were considerable number of these projects contemplated, in the works.

[User] Um, you know, I did the schools in Antioquia, in the Department of Antioquia, which was, of which Medellin was the capital. I also did a school in the Choco, which is a Pacific coast department. There were volunteers there, and they were working with some teachers. They wanted to build a school. So I went out there and I, you know, did the school out there.

[Assistant] When you say you did a school, I mean, you did the survey?

[User] I did, yeah, I designed a school out there.

[Assistant] And now was your design and therefore approval needed before it could work its way through the ministry?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, you know, I did the schools in Antioquia, in the Department of Antioquia, which was, of which Medellin was the capital. I also did a school in the Choco, which is a Pacific coast department. There were volunteers there, and they were working with some teachers. They wanted to build a school. So I went out there and I, you know, did the school out there.

[Assistant] When you say you did a school, I mean, you did the survey?

[User] I did, yeah, I designed a school out there.

[Assistant] And now was your design and therefore approval needed before it could work its way through the ministry?

[User] I'm not even aware it had to go to the ministry. I think it was just, I mean, I.

[Assistant] You were the one, you were the man, so you went out there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm not even aware it had to go to the ministry. I think it was just, I mean, I.

[Assistant] You were the one, you were the man, so you went out there.

[User] Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't even. You know, that's an interesting question. I have no idea what the process was after I said, here are the drawings.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK.

[User] If they then had a, you know, I'm making a leap, that the volunteers at a site worked with a counterpart from the, a Colombian counterpart from the coffee federation. Somehow, between them and their counterpart and whatever officials were in the town, they conveyed the request and they got the money and the materials. I think that was the easy part. I think the harder part was getting teachers to be assigned to the schools once they were done.

[Assistant] You said once you signed off on the drawings, you handed them in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't even. You know, that's an interesting question. I have no idea what the process was after I said, here are the drawings.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK.

[User] If they then had a, you know, I'm making a leap, that the volunteers at a site worked with a counterpart from the, a Colombian counterpart from the coffee federation. Somehow, between them and their counterpart and whatever officials were in the town, they conveyed the request and they got the money and the materials. I think that was the easy part. I think the harder part was getting teachers to be assigned to the schools once they were done.

[Assistant] You said once you signed off on the drawings, you handed them in.

[User] I gave them to the volunteers.

[Assistant] But you left them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] If they then had a, you know, I'm making a leap, that the volunteers at a site worked with a counterpart from the, a Colombian counterpart from the coffee federation. Somehow, between them and their counterpart and whatever officials were in the town, they conveyed the request and they got the money and the materials. I think that was the easy part. I think the harder part was getting teachers to be assigned to the schools once they were done.

[Assistant] You said once you signed off on the drawings, you handed them in.

[User] I gave them to the volunteers.

[Assistant] But you left them?

[User] I think I gave them to the volunteers, which was, you know, giving them to the community, but through the volunteer on the site.

[Assistant] Right, right. OK. Yeah. It didn't go through your office in Medellin?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I gave them to the volunteers.

[Assistant] But you left them?

[User] I think I gave them to the volunteers, which was, you know, giving them to the community, but through the volunteer on the site.

[Assistant] Right, right. OK. Yeah. It didn't go through your office in Medellin?

[User] No, no. I mean, I would get advice and you know, some conversations about what we were doing and ways of approaching it, etcetera.

[Assistant] At a point in the first year, was there a point when you suddenly, well, you thought to yourself, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer working in Colombia. I mean, it actually is happening.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think I gave them to the volunteers, which was, you know, giving them to the community, but through the volunteer on the site.

[Assistant] Right, right. OK. Yeah. It didn't go through your office in Medellin?

[User] No, no. I mean, I would get advice and you know, some conversations about what we were doing and ways of approaching it, etcetera.

[Assistant] At a point in the first year, was there a point when you suddenly, well, you thought to yourself, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer working in Colombia. I mean, it actually is happening.

[User] Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know when again when that happened, but yeah, it just is.

[Assistant] And you feel within after about six months, you would really started to become comfortable with the language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. I mean, I would get advice and you know, some conversations about what we were doing and ways of approaching it, etcetera.

[Assistant] At a point in the first year, was there a point when you suddenly, well, you thought to yourself, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer working in Colombia. I mean, it actually is happening.

[User] Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know when again when that happened, but yeah, it just is.

[Assistant] And you feel within after about six months, you would really started to become comfortable with the language?

[User] Six or seven months, eight months. I think I finally, I don't know if I was sitting on a bus. Maybe I was. Maybe that's what it was. I was sitting on a bus, waiting for the bus to start moving in the bus station, and I suddenly realized I was unconsciously eavesdropping on conversations that were going on.

[Assistant] During this period. Well, going out into the village, did you encounter political problems or corruption problems? I would think if there's money coming in for construction, that would be a temptation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know when again when that happened, but yeah, it just is.

[Assistant] And you feel within after about six months, you would really started to become comfortable with the language?

[User] Six or seven months, eight months. I think I finally, I don't know if I was sitting on a bus. Maybe I was. Maybe that's what it was. I was sitting on a bus, waiting for the bus to start moving in the bus station, and I suddenly realized I was unconsciously eavesdropping on conversations that were going on.

[Assistant] During this period. Well, going out into the village, did you encounter political problems or corruption problems? I would think if there's money coming in for construction, that would be a temptation.

[User] I had. No. I mean, if there was anything, I didn't know about it and I don't remember having conversations about it with the volunteers.

[Assistant] You were sort of insulated against it because of your role.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Six or seven months, eight months. I think I finally, I don't know if I was sitting on a bus. Maybe I was. Maybe that's what it was. I was sitting on a bus, waiting for the bus to start moving in the bus station, and I suddenly realized I was unconsciously eavesdropping on conversations that were going on.

[Assistant] During this period. Well, going out into the village, did you encounter political problems or corruption problems? I would think if there's money coming in for construction, that would be a temptation.

[User] I had. No. I mean, if there was anything, I didn't know about it and I don't remember having conversations about it with the volunteers.

[Assistant] You were sort of insulated against it because of your role.

[User] Yeah, I think, you know, the conversations that we had were more like, you know, Don so- and-so is really being pigheaded about this thing and or so-and-so is difficult to work with, so-and-so is really easy to work with, and he's really helping us get the thing done. You know, those kinds of conversations, but I'm not aware of any of the others.

[Assistant] Were you disappointed you didn't have a larger role to play? I'm not denigrating what you did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had. No. I mean, if there was anything, I didn't know about it and I don't remember having conversations about it with the volunteers.

[Assistant] You were sort of insulated against it because of your role.

[User] Yeah, I think, you know, the conversations that we had were more like, you know, Don so- and-so is really being pigheaded about this thing and or so-and-so is difficult to work with, so-and-so is really easy to work with, and he's really helping us get the thing done. You know, those kinds of conversations, but I'm not aware of any of the others.

[Assistant] Were you disappointed you didn't have a larger role to play? I'm not denigrating what you did.

[User] No, no, not particularly. I mean, my disappointment was not seeing the projects finished. I mean, a lot of projects that I saw that were mostly done and not finished.

[Assistant] So let's, we're coming now to the end of the first year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think, you know, the conversations that we had were more like, you know, Don so- and-so is really being pigheaded about this thing and or so-and-so is difficult to work with, so-and-so is really easy to work with, and he's really helping us get the thing done. You know, those kinds of conversations, but I'm not aware of any of the others.

[Assistant] Were you disappointed you didn't have a larger role to play? I'm not denigrating what you did.

[User] No, no, not particularly. I mean, my disappointment was not seeing the projects finished. I mean, a lot of projects that I saw that were mostly done and not finished.

[Assistant] So let's, we're coming now to the end of the first year.

[User] Yeah, OK.

[Assistant] And was there any break between first and second year? How many months did you serve altogether, because you were training for a long time, including in-country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, not particularly. I mean, my disappointment was not seeing the projects finished. I mean, a lot of projects that I saw that were mostly done and not finished.

[Assistant] So let's, we're coming now to the end of the first year.

[User] Yeah, OK.

[Assistant] And was there any break between first and second year? How many months did you serve altogether, because you were training for a long time, including in-country?

[User] Well, I left. We left Medellin in February of '66. Got there probably in, well, I got to Colombia in the spring of '64.

[Assistant] Okay, so shy of 20 months.