[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No, I, I think I would remember that.

[Assistant] Yeah, it may have been dropped by then.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So tell me about how the home stay went.

[User] Our home stay was very interesting. It was a, um, these people owned a brownstone in Brooklyn and it was in a neighborhood that had undergone significant revitalization through this neighborhood project. And so it was really a very nice neighborhood, surrounded by much less nice areas, near Prospect Park.

[Assistant] Was the, the home stay was arranged for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So tell me about how the home stay went.

[User] Our home stay was very interesting. It was a, um, these people owned a brownstone in Brooklyn and it was in a neighborhood that had undergone significant revitalization through this neighborhood project. And so it was really a very nice neighborhood, surrounded by much less nice areas, near Prospect Park.

[Assistant] Was the, the home stay was arranged for you?

[User] Yes, it was. And the family, they had one child who was a teenage boy, maybe 14, and the father worked for the Transit Authority. And the mother, I don't remember. She was out of the home, but she was from Barbados.

[Assistant] And it was a Black family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Our home stay was very interesting. It was a, um, these people owned a brownstone in Brooklyn and it was in a neighborhood that had undergone significant revitalization through this neighborhood project. And so it was really a very nice neighborhood, surrounded by much less nice areas, near Prospect Park.

[Assistant] Was the, the home stay was arranged for you?

[User] Yes, it was. And the family, they had one child who was a teenage boy, maybe 14, and the father worked for the Transit Authority. And the mother, I don't remember. She was out of the home, but she was from Barbados.

[Assistant] And it was a Black family?

[User] Yeah. And they were just really great. We actually had our own little apartment at the top of the brownstone, so we had a very, really cushy, cushy home stay. Other people had much less luxurious and more, and frightening experiences in some of the places.

[Assistant] How long was the home stay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. And the family, they had one child who was a teenage boy, maybe 14, and the father worked for the Transit Authority. And the mother, I don't remember. She was out of the home, but she was from Barbados.

[Assistant] And it was a Black family?

[User] Yeah. And they were just really great. We actually had our own little apartment at the top of the brownstone, so we had a very, really cushy, cushy home stay. Other people had much less luxurious and more, and frightening experiences in some of the places.

[Assistant] How long was the home stay?

[User] Three weeks, I think.

[Assistant] And what was the expectation of how you would spend your time during the three weeks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Three weeks, I think.

[Assistant] And what was the expectation of how you would spend your time during the three weeks?

[User] If I remember correctly, they gave us very little direction. I mean, during that time we were student teaching, so we were out of the home all day in the school. And we were at Bishop Ford High School in Brooklyn.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And, you know, we went through all the adventures on the subway, taking the wrong train and all that stuff. But as far as a home stay, it was just kind of like interacting with them in the evenings. And, and we were there over Thanksgiving, so they had the whole family and that was really wonderful.

[Assistant] Tell me about the your experience walking into a classroom. You had only had a week of educational training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, you know, we went through all the adventures on the subway, taking the wrong train and all that stuff. But as far as a home stay, it was just kind of like interacting with them in the evenings. And, and we were there over Thanksgiving, so they had the whole family and that was really wonderful.

[Assistant] Tell me about the your experience walking into a classroom. You had only had a week of educational training.

[User] Yeah, we may have had a little. Yeah, maybe it was about, yeah, only about a week. I was terrified, basically. But we each had a mentor, and mine was this very kind young Italian from Brooklyn. And so we kind of related on the Italian thing and he liked that. And, and, uh, I taught biology, which I was pretty comfortable with, although I had not really studied straight biology. It had all been medically oriented, human oriented. Um, but I felt pretty good about that. And being in the Catholic schools, that was very disciplined.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so we didn't have to deal with a lot of class manage, classroom management basically.

[Assistant] What level was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we may have had a little. Yeah, maybe it was about, yeah, only about a week. I was terrified, basically. But we each had a mentor, and mine was this very kind young Italian from Brooklyn. And so we kind of related on the Italian thing and he liked that. And, and, uh, I taught biology, which I was pretty comfortable with, although I had not really studied straight biology. It had all been medically oriented, human oriented. Um, but I felt pretty good about that. And being in the Catholic schools, that was very disciplined.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so we didn't have to deal with a lot of class manage, classroom management basically.

[Assistant] What level was it?

[User] High school.

[Assistant] But what grade?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so we didn't have to deal with a lot of class manage, classroom management basically.

[Assistant] What level was it?

[User] High school.

[Assistant] But what grade?

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] You don't remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] High school.

[Assistant] But what grade?

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] You don't remember?

[User] I don't remember, probably ninth or ten.

[Assistant] So from the first day you were teaching or did you have a chance to observe for a week and then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] You don't remember?

[User] I don't remember, probably ninth or ten.

[Assistant] So from the first day you were teaching or did you have a chance to observe for a week and then?

[User] Oh no. Talked to him about lesson plans or something. But I know that we, it was such a short period that we kind of jumped right into it, but I don't remember the actual timing.

[Assistant] At any point did you feel that there was no way in the world you would ever become a teacher?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Uh uh. I mean, it really wasn't what I wanted to do.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I felt like I could do it. And looking back on that experience, I'm so grateful for having had that experience. It taught me.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] Well, it taught me how to present to people, how to get an idea across, how to organize material for that, for presentations.

[Assistant] Did you sort of come to that just because you were doing it or did someone guide you through? I mean, were you applying a theory or just sort of figuring it out as you went along?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I felt like I could do it. And looking back on that experience, I'm so grateful for having had that experience. It taught me.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] Well, it taught me how to present to people, how to get an idea across, how to organize material for that, for presentations.

[Assistant] Did you sort of come to that just because you were doing it or did someone guide you through? I mean, were you applying a theory or just sort of figuring it out as you went along?

[User] I knew nothing about educational theory.

[Assistant] Even though you'd been exposed to some, I guess?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it taught me how to present to people, how to get an idea across, how to organize material for that, for presentations.

[Assistant] Did you sort of come to that just because you were doing it or did someone guide you through? I mean, were you applying a theory or just sort of figuring it out as you went along?

[User] I knew nothing about educational theory.

[Assistant] Even though you'd been exposed to some, I guess?

[User] I suppose. I mean, honestly, it must have been pretty, it must have. I must not have taken much of it in because I don't remember it at all. And there's so many other things I remember very vividly.

[Assistant] That's true of many education courses.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I knew nothing about educational theory.

[Assistant] Even though you'd been exposed to some, I guess?

[User] I suppose. I mean, honestly, it must have been pretty, it must have. I must not have taken much of it in because I don't remember it at all. And there's so many other things I remember very vividly.

[Assistant] That's true of many education courses.

[User] Yes, I'm sure. Yeah.

[Assistant] So it was three weeks of teaching and Jim was teaching at the same school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I suppose. I mean, honestly, it must have been pretty, it must have. I must not have taken much of it in because I don't remember it at all. And there's so many other things I remember very vividly.

[Assistant] That's true of many education courses.

[User] Yes, I'm sure. Yeah.

[Assistant] So it was three weeks of teaching and Jim was teaching at the same school?

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you had no other agenda other than occasionally going back to Columbia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I'm sure. Yeah.

[Assistant] So it was three weeks of teaching and Jim was teaching at the same school?

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you had no other agenda other than occasionally going back to Columbia?

[User] Right. And, and living in this neighborhood, you know, kind of living in a cross-cultural experience and seeing how we felt about that.

[Assistant] Did anyone evaluate your teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah.

[Assistant] And you had no other agenda other than occasionally going back to Columbia?

[User] Right. And, and living in this neighborhood, you know, kind of living in a cross-cultural experience and seeing how we felt about that.

[Assistant] Did anyone evaluate your teaching?

[User] They must have. And I think it was this mentor to whom each of us was assigned. It must have been because that would have been the only one.

[Assistant] No one from the training program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And, and living in this neighborhood, you know, kind of living in a cross-cultural experience and seeing how we felt about that.

[Assistant] Did anyone evaluate your teaching?

[User] They must have. And I think it was this mentor to whom each of us was assigned. It must have been because that would have been the only one.

[Assistant] No one from the training program?

[User] I don't remember that they did.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. After the three week home stay and practice teaching, you're still in training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They must have. And I think it was this mentor to whom each of us was assigned. It must have been because that would have been the only one.

[Assistant] No one from the training program?

[User] I don't remember that they did.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. After the three week home stay and practice teaching, you're still in training?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was there a midpoint in the training when there was a selection board and you were told, you know, everything was okay or people disappeared?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was there a midpoint in the training when there was a selection board and you were told, you know, everything was okay or people disappeared?

[User] I don't remember. I only remember people getting deselected at the end. I do remember that some people left.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I think up to the end it was voluntary. But there may have been.

[Assistant] Yeah. I assume during the four weeks at Monroe you had sort of begun to develop friendships with couples.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember. I only remember people getting deselected at the end. I do remember that some people left.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But I think up to the end it was voluntary. But there may have been.

[Assistant] Yeah. I assume during the four weeks at Monroe you had sort of begun to develop friendships with couples.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And then that was dispersed when you went to the home stay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I think up to the end it was voluntary. But there may have been.

[Assistant] Yeah. I assume during the four weeks at Monroe you had sort of begun to develop friendships with couples.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And then that was dispersed when you went to the home stay.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And now you're back together again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And then that was dispersed when you went to the home stay.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And now you're back together again.

[User] Oh, yes. And then, of course, we all had our stories to tell from the home stays.

[Assistant] Yeah. And back at the Hotel Paris?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And now you're back together again.

[User] Oh, yes. And then, of course, we all had our stories to tell from the home stays.

[Assistant] Yeah. And back at the Hotel Paris?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And for how long was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. And then, of course, we all had our stories to tell from the home stays.

[Assistant] Yeah. And back at the Hotel Paris?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And for how long was that?

[User] Well, that must have been about another month, because we started training on October 7th, and then we ended like around the 20th of December or something like that, because I know, like I said, we went home for the holidays.

[Assistant] And you had the chance to go back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And for how long was that?

[User] Well, that must have been about another month, because we started training on October 7th, and then we ended like around the 20th of December or something like that, because I know, like I said, we went home for the holidays.

[Assistant] And you had the chance to go back.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was the last phase then of training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The last phase was to come back together. I would guess they did the deselection. Well, that whole last time after training, we did a lot of the cross-cultural and more education. Those are the things I really remember, and more of those obnoxious T groups.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That kind of thing. And then when we all came back from our Christmas break, we had just a couple of days.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, maybe we came back on the 30th because I remember we had, or the 31st perhaps even, because we had a big New Year's Eve party in the hotel.

[Assistant] Were, um, were there any volunteers who had served in Kenya who were part of the training program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That kind of thing. And then when we all came back from our Christmas break, we had just a couple of days.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, maybe we came back on the 30th because I remember we had, or the 31st perhaps even, because we had a big New Year's Eve party in the hotel.

[Assistant] Were, um, were there any volunteers who had served in Kenya who were part of the training program?

[User] There was, no, not that I. You mean who were doing it a second time?

[Assistant] No, no, who were now trainee trainers? Returned volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, there were. Yes, there were. And I've always been mad at them because they gave me one piece of very bum advice.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] They had all been in government schools. They were there before the Harambee schools. So they were in well-established schools, most if not all of which had electricity.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] They were in the cities. And I was having this huge stress about whether or not to take my sewing machine because it weighed 40 pounds, or weighed 30 pounds or whatever. It was heavy. And I thought, gosh, we're not going to have electricity. Why take it? But I'd love to be able to do stuff with girls and sewing. And they said, oh no, you'll have electricity. So my dad, who worked in a factory warehouse crating big things most of his life, crated it up beautifully for me. And I shipped it to Kenya, and it became a stand for our Peace Corps book locker for two years, because there was no electricity within 70 miles of where we were.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of the returned volunteers were married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They had all been in government schools. They were there before the Harambee schools. So they were in well-established schools, most if not all of which had electricity.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] They were in the cities. And I was having this huge stress about whether or not to take my sewing machine because it weighed 40 pounds, or weighed 30 pounds or whatever. It was heavy. And I thought, gosh, we're not going to have electricity. Why take it? But I'd love to be able to do stuff with girls and sewing. And they said, oh no, you'll have electricity. So my dad, who worked in a factory warehouse crating big things most of his life, crated it up beautifully for me. And I shipped it to Kenya, and it became a stand for our Peace Corps book locker for two years, because there was no electricity within 70 miles of where we were.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of the returned volunteers were married couples?

[User] I don't remember that any were.

[Assistant] Okay. I mean, was there any part of the training where they took the married couples aside just to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were in the cities. And I was having this huge stress about whether or not to take my sewing machine because it weighed 40 pounds, or weighed 30 pounds or whatever. It was heavy. And I thought, gosh, we're not going to have electricity. Why take it? But I'd love to be able to do stuff with girls and sewing. And they said, oh no, you'll have electricity. So my dad, who worked in a factory warehouse crating big things most of his life, crated it up beautifully for me. And I shipped it to Kenya, and it became a stand for our Peace Corps book locker for two years, because there was no electricity within 70 miles of where we were.

[Assistant] Do you recall if any of the returned volunteers were married couples?

[User] I don't remember that any were.

[Assistant] Okay. I mean, was there any part of the training where they took the married couples aside just to?

[User] The only thing I remember was with the psychiatrist.

[Assistant] Okay. So there was no physical fitness training that you did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember that any were.

[Assistant] Okay. I mean, was there any part of the training where they took the married couples aside just to?

[User] The only thing I remember was with the psychiatrist.

[Assistant] Okay. So there was no physical fitness training that you did.

[User] No.

[Assistant] And when you went home for Christmas, did the families try to say, well, why don't you stay? I mean.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The only thing I remember was with the psychiatrist.

[Assistant] Okay. So there was no physical fitness training that you did.

[User] No.

[Assistant] And when you went home for Christmas, did the families try to say, well, why don't you stay? I mean.

[User] No, no, they knew us well enough. I mean, my parents knew I always did what I wanted to do.

[Assistant] I assume you were both very enthusiastic at that point.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] And when you went home for Christmas, did the families try to say, well, why don't you stay? I mean.

[User] No, no, they knew us well enough. I mean, my parents knew I always did what I wanted to do.

[Assistant] I assume you were both very enthusiastic at that point.

[User] Oh, we were. We were very excited. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So back to New York?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, we were. We were very excited. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. So back to New York?

[User] Right. Back to New York. But in Detroit, we had to evacuate our plane because the engine caught on fire. It was a little scary.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We got back to New York, spent one or two days, and then.

[Assistant] We'll talk a little bit about the selection, the final selection. Do you recall much about it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Back to New York. But in Detroit, we had to evacuate our plane because the engine caught on fire. It was a little scary.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We got back to New York, spent one or two days, and then.

[Assistant] We'll talk a little bit about the selection, the final selection. Do you recall much about it?

[User] You know, I don't remember people. I don't really remember being told we were selected. What I remember was the trauma of the people who were deselected, because two of them were good friends of ours.

[Assistant] And how, how were they informed that they were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I don't remember people. I don't really remember being told we were selected. What I remember was the trauma of the people who were deselected, because two of them were good friends of ours.

[Assistant] And how, how were they informed that they were?

[User] Um, I don't know. I think, I mean, they just told us.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And so I, I don't, they must have been called into a meeting or something. I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah. But that aside now you're ready to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I, I don't, they must have been called into a meeting or something. I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah. But that aside now you're ready to go?

[User] Right. Yeah. And one of these friends actually appealed because it was based on false information and I can't remember what that was, something in an FBI check or something. And he did end up coming to Kenya about a week after the rest.

[Assistant] Oh, great.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So they were still doing background checks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah. And one of these friends actually appealed because it was based on false information and I can't remember what that was, something in an FBI check or something. And he did end up coming to Kenya about a week after the rest.

[Assistant] Oh, great.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So they were still doing background checks?

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was something my family talked about, how the FBI had come around the neighborhood and all the neighbors said, oh, Mary's the nicest girl. We used to always buy donuts from her when she was selling them for her girls club. And that was all they could tell them about me.

[Assistant] Your record was pretty clean.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So they were still doing background checks?

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was something my family talked about, how the FBI had come around the neighborhood and all the neighbors said, oh, Mary's the nicest girl. We used to always buy donuts from her when she was selling them for her girls club. And that was all they could tell them about me.

[Assistant] Your record was pretty clean.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So you're ready to go now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was something my family talked about, how the FBI had come around the neighborhood and all the neighbors said, oh, Mary's the nicest girl. We used to always buy donuts from her when she was selling them for her girls club. And that was all they could tell them about me.

[Assistant] Your record was pretty clean.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So you're ready to go now.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Did you, had you then had packed up everything for two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Did you, had you then had packed up everything for two years?

[User] Yes. And we made all the mistakes you could make.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, and then we had this New Year's Eve party and, um, everybody got pretty loaded. And I remember we were on the 17th floor of the hotel, and I was, the window, for some reason our window was open and I was trying to close it and I got really nervous about the window. Anyway, ended up going to Kenya with a horrendous cold. But we went to the airport on New Year's Day, where we all were watching the Rose Bowl, and left at half time. So it was only three months later that we knew, we found out that Ohio State had beat USC.

[Assistant] Was it a charter flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And we made all the mistakes you could make.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, and then we had this New Year's Eve party and, um, everybody got pretty loaded. And I remember we were on the 17th floor of the hotel, and I was, the window, for some reason our window was open and I was trying to close it and I got really nervous about the window. Anyway, ended up going to Kenya with a horrendous cold. But we went to the airport on New Year's Day, where we all were watching the Rose Bowl, and left at half time. So it was only three months later that we knew, we found out that Ohio State had beat USC.

[Assistant] Was it a charter flight?

[User] Yes, it was a charter flight. It was 150 of us. And then a small group going to Uganda.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that would, that would be, uh. And that was your first overseas flight?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, and then we had this New Year's Eve party and, um, everybody got pretty loaded. And I remember we were on the 17th floor of the hotel, and I was, the window, for some reason our window was open and I was trying to close it and I got really nervous about the window. Anyway, ended up going to Kenya with a horrendous cold. But we went to the airport on New Year's Day, where we all were watching the Rose Bowl, and left at half time. So it was only three months later that we knew, we found out that Ohio State had beat USC.

[Assistant] Was it a charter flight?

[User] Yes, it was a charter flight. It was 150 of us. And then a small group going to Uganda.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that would, that would be, uh. And that was your first overseas flight?

[User] Oh, yes. And it was glorious. It was KLM and they just wined and dined us all the way to Amsterdam.

[Assistant] Yeah. So it was Amsterdam and then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Amsterdam and then we landed in Beirut and we were the first plane to land in Beirut after the Christmas bombing of the airport.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] And so there were bombed out planes on the airport and soldiers. And we were escorted from the plane into the terminal where we had to stay. We could use the restrooms. We had to stay there and escorted back.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] No pictures. So that was pretty interesting.

[Assistant] At any point, did up to this point, had your specific assignment been discussed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, just that we would be in a secondary school. Oh, well, that's not true. Let me back up. About three weeks before we were to go, one of the Peace Corps doctors found out that myself and one other woman in the program were medical technologists.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] He came to New York to meet with us because they wanted to open a medical technology school at the medical school, and he wanted to recruit us to do that. Well, at this point, Jim and I had already decided we wanted to be in a rural school. We were really excited about working together. We definitely want to be in the bush, but here's the job I wanted.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So. So anyway, he, you know, he went through the whole sales pitch and tried to convince us. And, um, and I just said, you know, really, I can't make this decision until I see it. So and this other woman said the same thing. So he met our plane, which arrived at 4:00 in the morning. And, um, when can I, when can I take you to medical school? Oh my God.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He came to New York to meet with us because they wanted to open a medical technology school at the medical school, and he wanted to recruit us to do that. Well, at this point, Jim and I had already decided we wanted to be in a rural school. We were really excited about working together. We definitely want to be in the bush, but here's the job I wanted.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So. So anyway, he, you know, he went through the whole sales pitch and tried to convince us. And, um, and I just said, you know, really, I can't make this decision until I see it. So and this other woman said the same thing. So he met our plane, which arrived at 4:00 in the morning. And, um, when can I, when can I take you to medical school? Oh my God.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?

[User] Yeah, Bob Amman. And he picked us up like 9:30 the next morning. And we went there and it was just, it was an incredible job. It would have been so cool.

[Assistant] Was it in Nairobi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So. So anyway, he, you know, he went through the whole sales pitch and tried to convince us. And, um, and I just said, you know, really, I can't make this decision until I see it. So and this other woman said the same thing. So he met our plane, which arrived at 4:00 in the morning. And, um, when can I, when can I take you to medical school? Oh my God.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?

[User] Yeah, Bob Amman. And he picked us up like 9:30 the next morning. And we went there and it was just, it was an incredible job. It would have been so cool.

[Assistant] Was it in Nairobi?

[User] It was in Nairobi. And so we would have lived in an apartment. Jim would have gone to his school. I would have gone to the medical school. And it was like, well, God, we could stay home and do that. You know, that's not why we came here. But it was a very hard decision for me because I really wanted to do this. There was really a need. But the other woman did stay and do it, so that made it easier for me. But then we said, put us as far away from Nairobi as you can, and they did.

[Assistant] Yeah. So. So when you were going to look at the med tech school, you still didn't know what your alternative was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, Bob Amman. And he picked us up like 9:30 the next morning. And we went there and it was just, it was an incredible job. It would have been so cool.

[Assistant] Was it in Nairobi?

[User] It was in Nairobi. And so we would have lived in an apartment. Jim would have gone to his school. I would have gone to the medical school. And it was like, well, God, we could stay home and do that. You know, that's not why we came here. But it was a very hard decision for me because I really wanted to do this. There was really a need. But the other woman did stay and do it, so that made it easier for me. But then we said, put us as far away from Nairobi as you can, and they did.

[Assistant] Yeah. So. So when you were going to look at the med tech school, you still didn't know what your alternative was?

[User] No, we did not at this point. And so we stayed, we stayed in Nairobi a long time, like I'd say at least ten days.

[Assistant] Were Kenya schools are on a January beginning?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was in Nairobi. And so we would have lived in an apartment. Jim would have gone to his school. I would have gone to the medical school. And it was like, well, God, we could stay home and do that. You know, that's not why we came here. But it was a very hard decision for me because I really wanted to do this. There was really a need. But the other woman did stay and do it, so that made it easier for me. But then we said, put us as far away from Nairobi as you can, and they did.

[Assistant] Yeah. So. So when you were going to look at the med tech school, you still didn't know what your alternative was?

[User] No, we did not at this point. And so we stayed, we stayed in Nairobi a long time, like I'd say at least ten days.

[Assistant] Were Kenya schools are on a January beginning?

[User] Correct. Three months of school, one month vacation, which was so, so lovely.

[Assistant] Where did you stay when you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct. Three months of school, one month vacation, which was so, so lovely.

[Assistant] Where did you stay when you?

[User] We stayed at the Brenner Hotel. And it was interesting because for some reason, and I don't really know why, Jim and I and a few other couples were kind of overflow. So we got to stay in this much nicer hotel.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was, it was mosquito nets and breakfast, tea brought at 7:00.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was the group still together as a group and were you doing some in-country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We stayed at the Brenner Hotel. And it was interesting because for some reason, and I don't really know why, Jim and I and a few other couples were kind of overflow. So we got to stay in this much nicer hotel.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was, it was mosquito nets and breakfast, tea brought at 7:00.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was the group still together as a group and were you doing some in-country?

[User] You know, we must have been. But to tell you the truth, I don't remember it.

[Assistant] And you don't remember the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, we must have been. But to tell you the truth, I don't remember it.

[Assistant] And you don't remember the group?

[User] I remember being at the office. And I remember people getting their assignments. And there was a delay on our assignment because of this med tech school possibility.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so maybe we just stayed longer than some because of that.

[Assistant] But people were gradually going out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remember being at the office. And I remember people getting their assignments. And there was a delay on our assignment because of this med tech school possibility.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so maybe we just stayed longer than some because of that.

[Assistant] But people were gradually going out?

[User] Gradually dispersing, yeah.

[Assistant] And what was your impression of that as it was happening?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so maybe we just stayed longer than some because of that.

[Assistant] But people were gradually going out?

[User] Gradually dispersing, yeah.

[Assistant] And what was your impression of that as it was happening?

[User] Wow. You know, I don't really remember. I just remember being so thrilled with everything. I was so excited.

[Assistant] And I mean, but there must have been people getting totally urban assignments and some getting bush assignments?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Gradually dispersing, yeah.

[Assistant] And what was your impression of that as it was happening?

[User] Wow. You know, I don't really remember. I just remember being so thrilled with everything. I was so excited.

[Assistant] And I mean, but there must have been people getting totally urban assignments and some getting bush assignments?

[User] Right. One couple, one couple we were close to were put at Starehe School in Nairobi, one of the finest schools in the city. And they lived in an apartment. And later when we saw them, I remember her being shocked that women came to our door with cabbages on their heads. She just couldn't believe it.

[Assistant] Were people protesting? You know, I don't, I don't want to be in Nairobi and get me out of here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember. You know, the most dramatic thing I remember were the couple of people who freaked out and wanted to just get the hell out of the country.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Yeah. I mean, they were very dramatic. One guy had been dramatic all through training, but it had been gung-ho dramatic. Now it was like, get me out of here.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so they seemed to take up an awful lot of the space and energy.

[Assistant] Who, who was director then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I mean, they were very dramatic. One guy had been dramatic all through training, but it had been gung-ho dramatic. Now it was like, get me out of here.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so they seemed to take up an awful lot of the space and energy.

[Assistant] Who, who was director then?

[User] Bob Poole.

[Assistant] And when did you first meet with him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they seemed to take up an awful lot of the space and energy.

[Assistant] Who, who was director then?

[User] Bob Poole.

[Assistant] And when did you first meet with him?

[User] Well, I guess pretty, pretty quickly. I remember he had a tea or picnic or something for us at his home, which was very nice.

[Assistant] Do you recall in the few days while you were in Nairobi before going out any kind of, the Peace Corps Kenya trying to imprint what they were all about and what their expectation of you was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bob Poole.

[Assistant] And when did you first meet with him?

[User] Well, I guess pretty, pretty quickly. I remember he had a tea or picnic or something for us at his home, which was very nice.

[Assistant] Do you recall in the few days while you were in Nairobi before going out any kind of, the Peace Corps Kenya trying to imprint what they were all about and what their expectation of you was?

[User] I'm sure because I'm sure they did.

[Assistant] Rules and regs.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I guess pretty, pretty quickly. I remember he had a tea or picnic or something for us at his home, which was very nice.

[Assistant] Do you recall in the few days while you were in Nairobi before going out any kind of, the Peace Corps Kenya trying to imprint what they were all about and what their expectation of you was?

[User] I'm sure because I'm sure they did.

[Assistant] Rules and regs.

[User] Right. Oh, yes. You know, I remember that that happened, but the details totally escape me.

[Assistant] Okay. If, uh, I mean, it's kind of a personal question. Had you been advised that it would be best not to become pregnant?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sure because I'm sure they did.

[Assistant] Rules and regs.

[User] Right. Oh, yes. You know, I remember that that happened, but the details totally escape me.

[Assistant] Okay. If, uh, I mean, it's kind of a personal question. Had you been advised that it would be best not to become pregnant?

[User] Well, what they had said throughout, and I don't remember if the question was raised by someone or if it was just part of the drill. What they said is, it's no problem having a child while you're here as long as you can continue to do your job. But if you cannot continue your assignment as a Peace Corps volunteer, then we will send you home.

[Assistant] So that was your understanding of the policy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Oh, yes. You know, I remember that that happened, but the details totally escape me.

[Assistant] Okay. If, uh, I mean, it's kind of a personal question. Had you been advised that it would be best not to become pregnant?

[User] Well, what they had said throughout, and I don't remember if the question was raised by someone or if it was just part of the drill. What they said is, it's no problem having a child while you're here as long as you can continue to do your job. But if you cannot continue your assignment as a Peace Corps volunteer, then we will send you home.

[Assistant] So that was your understanding of the policy?

[User] That was clearly our understanding, and it was the policy at the time. I think there were five babies born in our group.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So you finally got your assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, what they had said throughout, and I don't remember if the question was raised by someone or if it was just part of the drill. What they said is, it's no problem having a child while you're here as long as you can continue to do your job. But if you cannot continue your assignment as a Peace Corps volunteer, then we will send you home.

[Assistant] So that was your understanding of the policy?

[User] That was clearly our understanding, and it was the policy at the time. I think there were five babies born in our group.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So you finally got your assignment.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You had, did you have any idea of where and what it was all about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was clearly our understanding, and it was the policy at the time. I think there were five babies born in our group.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So you finally got your assignment.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You had, did you have any idea of where and what it was all about?

[User] Only on the map. And, um, and the way, this is pretty amazing, the way teachers were assigned to Taranganya Secondary School was because.

[Assistant] Say it again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Only on the map. And, um, and the way, this is pretty amazing, the way teachers were assigned to Taranganya Secondary School was because.

[Assistant] Say it again?

[User] Taranganya. T-A-R-A-N-apostrophe-G-A-N-Y-A.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Um, was because the head of the mission there, a man named Roy Cooper, had gone to Peace Corps and requested teachers. I mean, had he known what they were getting, he might not have done that. But so when teachers were assigned to Taranganya, Roy was in Nairobi and he was going to be our transport upcountry. And so he met us and he was a little nervous guy, but he was going to tell us everything we needed and he really was very helpful. You know, we bought the, the Chinese version of the Petra Max lantern because it cost 1/10 as much and the kinds of pots and things like that. So we went shopping with him. We bought a water filter, which was something we wouldn't have thought of, and then we would have been 350 miles from a water filter. I don't remember a lot of health training, which our daughter got.

[Assistant] Oh, I was, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Taranganya. T-A-R-A-N-apostrophe-G-A-N-Y-A.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Um, was because the head of the mission there, a man named Roy Cooper, had gone to Peace Corps and requested teachers. I mean, had he known what they were getting, he might not have done that. But so when teachers were assigned to Taranganya, Roy was in Nairobi and he was going to be our transport upcountry. And so he met us and he was a little nervous guy, but he was going to tell us everything we needed and he really was very helpful. You know, we bought the, the Chinese version of the Petra Max lantern because it cost 1/10 as much and the kinds of pots and things like that. So we went shopping with him. We bought a water filter, which was something we wouldn't have thought of, and then we would have been 350 miles from a water filter. I don't remember a lot of health training, which our daughter got.

[Assistant] Oh, I was, yeah.

[User] Yeah, I don't remember that. And I know I would have, I would remember that. So I think they pretty much. We did meet with Peace Corps docs and they probably did say, don't drink the water, and that sort of thing.

[Assistant] Do you recall being issued a Peace Corps medical kit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Every six months.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah, the medical kit was. And, and we were issued a Peace Corps book locker.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was so glorious. And they were really considerate in that they put, they had four different versions and they put different versions with people in the same region so we could switch them around. So we had our own little lending library.

[Assistant] Now, uh, the, the headmaster of the school was an American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the medical kit was. And, and we were issued a Peace Corps book locker.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was so glorious. And they were really considerate in that they put, they had four different versions and they put different versions with people in the same region so we could switch them around. So we had our own little lending library.

[Assistant] Now, uh, the, the headmaster of the school was an American?

[User] No, no, the headmaster of the school was a Luo, a Kenyan who was of the Luo tribe.

[Assistant] Now, Cooper, who was he?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was so glorious. And they were really considerate in that they put, they had four different versions and they put different versions with people in the same region so we could switch them around. So we had our own little lending library.

[Assistant] Now, uh, the, the headmaster of the school was an American?

[User] No, no, the headmaster of the school was a Luo, a Kenyan who was of the Luo tribe.

[Assistant] Now, Cooper, who was he?

[User] He was the head of the mission. The school was not on the mission. The school was a private.

[Assistant] What kind of mission was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, the headmaster of the school was a Luo, a Kenyan who was of the Luo tribe.

[Assistant] Now, Cooper, who was he?

[User] He was the head of the mission. The school was not on the mission. The school was a private.

[Assistant] What kind of mission was it?

[User] Elim Pentecostal from upstate New York.

[Assistant] Okay. And Cooper was an American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was the head of the mission. The school was not on the mission. The school was a private.

[Assistant] What kind of mission was it?

[User] Elim Pentecostal from upstate New York.

[Assistant] Okay. And Cooper was an American?

[User] Yes. From Detroit.

[Assistant] Had been in Kenya how long?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Elim Pentecostal from upstate New York.

[Assistant] Okay. And Cooper was an American?

[User] Yes. From Detroit.

[Assistant] Had been in Kenya how long?

[User] They had been there about two years, I think.

[Assistant] It was he and his wife?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. From Detroit.

[Assistant] Had been in Kenya how long?

[User] They had been there about two years, I think.

[Assistant] It was he and his wife?

[User] He and his wife and three, three or four children, three children who went off to boarding school.

[Assistant] So the mission then started the school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They had been there about two years, I think.

[Assistant] It was he and his wife?

[User] He and his wife and three, three or four children, three children who went off to boarding school.

[Assistant] So the mission then started the school?

[User] Well, the way I understand it is that the mission, yeah, they must have, I mean, they supplied the only teachers at the beginning and I don't, I don't know exactly. Yeah, they did pretty much start the school.

[Assistant] Now, the Harambee school was sort of private schools being started throughout the country because there weren't enough public schools.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He and his wife and three, three or four children, three children who went off to boarding school.

[Assistant] So the mission then started the school?

[User] Well, the way I understand it is that the mission, yeah, they must have, I mean, they supplied the only teachers at the beginning and I don't, I don't know exactly. Yeah, they did pretty much start the school.

[Assistant] Now, the Harambee school was sort of private schools being started throughout the country because there weren't enough public schools.

[User] Exactly. There weren't enough positions in government schools for all the students. And so the Harambee concept was self help, that communities through whatever means, perhaps with the help of a mission, or they had a member of Parliament or whatever, would start their own school.

[Assistant] And then the government had decided to begin to support them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the way I understand it is that the mission, yeah, they must have, I mean, they supplied the only teachers at the beginning and I don't, I don't know exactly. Yeah, they did pretty much start the school.

[Assistant] Now, the Harambee school was sort of private schools being started throughout the country because there weren't enough public schools.

[User] Exactly. There weren't enough positions in government schools for all the students. And so the Harambee concept was self help, that communities through whatever means, perhaps with the help of a mission, or they had a member of Parliament or whatever, would start their own school.

[Assistant] And then the government had decided to begin to support them.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] And did that coincide with your going?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. There weren't enough positions in government schools for all the students. And so the Harambee concept was self help, that communities through whatever means, perhaps with the help of a mission, or they had a member of Parliament or whatever, would start their own school.

[Assistant] And then the government had decided to begin to support them.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] And did that coincide with your going?

[User] Yes. The first year we were there, Taranganya had one, form one was government students and forms two, three, and four were Harambee.

[Assistant] And the difference being?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. The first year we were there, Taranganya had one, form one was government students and forms two, three, and four were Harambee.

[Assistant] And the difference being?

[User] The difference being that the Harambee students were usually kids who could not, who didn't have enough qualifications, enough knowledge, to get accepted to a government school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they paid about three times as much in school fees because there was no government subsidy.

[Assistant] Was that, was that a source of tension between form one and the others?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The difference being that the Harambee students were usually kids who could not, who didn't have enough qualifications, enough knowledge, to get accepted to a government school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they paid about three times as much in school fees because there was no government subsidy.

[Assistant] Was that, was that a source of tension between form one and the others?

[User] I don't remember that it was.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, Mr. Cooper picks you up in Nairobi and helps you with buying of the stuff.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they paid about three times as much in school fees because there was no government subsidy.

[Assistant] Was that, was that a source of tension between form one and the others?

[User] I don't remember that it was.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, Mr. Cooper picks you up in Nairobi and helps you with buying of the stuff.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Can you describe the journey, your first journey out of Nairobi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember that it was.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, Mr. Cooper picks you up in Nairobi and helps you with buying of the stuff.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Can you describe the journey, your first journey out of Nairobi?

[User] Yes. Well, it was 350 miles.

[Assistant] Did he have a Land Rover?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Rutted and dirt and some places it actually had grass down the middle with one track. Yeah. And but on that drive down that road, there were a lot of, um, sisal plants, which you probably know look like gigantic yucca.

[Assistant] Spiky.

[User] And then they have that asparagus stock up the middle. And on these were civet cats who had climbed up. So the whole thing was, you know, their eyes would glow. So we were just exhausted. And, you know, we were never scared. It was just like, whoa, where are we going?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
So we get to the mission house at about midnight, and we spent the night there. But, um, I think it was good that we had each other. But we're also very common sensical Midwestern people. And I think that served us well, because one of the first things the wife told us, this Mrs. Cooper, was that we had to watch out because just that day she'd taken a dish towel out of the drawer and there was a spitting cobra under it. And then she also told us we had to sleep with the shutters closed because leopards would leap through our windows. And we all took this, we took this with definitely a grain of salt. It's like, you know, I haven't heard of any Peace Corps volunteers being killed by leaping leopards, so I will take my chances.

So we spent one night there and then moved into a house on the mission that was vacant because our little bungalow at the school that the government was now building wasn't quite completed. They had completed one and the headmaster had moved into that. And then we were going to get the next one.

[Assistant] Okay. Can you describe the school compound?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then they have that asparagus stock up the middle. And on these were civet cats who had climbed up. So the whole thing was, you know, their eyes would glow. So we were just exhausted. And, you know, we were never scared. It was just like, whoa, where are we going?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
So we get to the mission house at about midnight, and we spent the night there. But, um, I think it was good that we had each other. But we're also very common sensical Midwestern people. And I think that served us well, because one of the first things the wife told us, this Mrs. Cooper, was that we had to watch out because just that day she'd taken a dish towel out of the drawer and there was a spitting cobra under it. And then she also told us we had to sleep with the shutters closed because leopards would leap through our windows. And we all took this, we took this with definitely a grain of salt. It's like, you know, I haven't heard of any Peace Corps volunteers being killed by leaping leopards, so I will take my chances.

So we spent one night there and then moved into a house on the mission that was vacant because our little bungalow at the school that the government was now building wasn't quite completed. They had completed one and the headmaster had moved into that. And then we were going to get the next one.

[Assistant] Okay. Can you describe the school compound?

[User] Yeah, across the road from the mission. And it was, gosh, probably 50 acres, it would be about my guess. Oblong or rectangular shape. And the houses were at the west end and there was a road that went all the way around the compound past our houses, across past the soccer field, round by the dormitories and on the other side out to the road. And between our house and the soccer field was about a 30 yard long, 10 foot high hedge of lantana. So gorgeous and smelled so wonderful.

[Assistant] Were most of the buildings concrete block?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
So we get to the mission house at about midnight, and we spent the night there. But, um, I think it was good that we had each other. But we're also very common sensical Midwestern people. And I think that served us well, because one of the first things the wife told us, this Mrs. Cooper, was that we had to watch out because just that day she'd taken a dish towel out of the drawer and there was a spitting cobra under it. And then she also told us we had to sleep with the shutters closed because leopards would leap through our windows. And we all took this, we took this with definitely a grain of salt. It's like, you know, I haven't heard of any Peace Corps volunteers being killed by leaping leopards, so I will take my chances.

So we spent one night there and then moved into a house on the mission that was vacant because our little bungalow at the school that the government was now building wasn't quite completed. They had completed one and the headmaster had moved into that. And then we were going to get the next one.

[Assistant] Okay. Can you describe the school compound?

[User] Yeah, across the road from the mission. And it was, gosh, probably 50 acres, it would be about my guess. Oblong or rectangular shape. And the houses were at the west end and there was a road that went all the way around the compound past our houses, across past the soccer field, round by the dormitories and on the other side out to the road. And between our house and the soccer field was about a 30 yard long, 10 foot high hedge of lantana. So gorgeous and smelled so wonderful.

[Assistant] Were most of the buildings concrete block?

[User] Yeah. They were concrete block.

[Assistant] Tin roof or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. They were concrete block.

[Assistant] Tin roof or?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Asbestos compositions?

[User] Tin roof. We had the Mabati, the corrugated tin, just like we have in this house. Anyway, our little house that we moved into was a kitchen that was six by eight, and then three small rooms, which we used as an office, and the living room and our bedroom.

[Assistant] Right. And it was a boarding school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Asbestos compositions?

[User] Tin roof. We had the Mabati, the corrugated tin, just like we have in this house. Anyway, our little house that we moved into was a kitchen that was six by eight, and then three small rooms, which we used as an office, and the living room and our bedroom.

[Assistant] Right. And it was a boarding school?

[User] It was a boarding school. The kids had very, very, very poor accommodations. The school building itself was one strip of four classrooms with a small section in the middle where the office was. And we had a Gestetner copy machine in the office, which was indispensable.

[Assistant] So it was, there was one class for each form.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Tin roof. We had the Mabati, the corrugated tin, just like we have in this house. Anyway, our little house that we moved into was a kitchen that was six by eight, and then three small rooms, which we used as an office, and the living room and our bedroom.

[Assistant] Right. And it was a boarding school?

[User] It was a boarding school. The kids had very, very, very poor accommodations. The school building itself was one strip of four classrooms with a small section in the middle where the office was. And we had a Gestetner copy machine in the office, which was indispensable.

[Assistant] So it was, there was one class for each form.

[User] One class for each form.

[Assistant] And they stayed and the teachers came to them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One class for each form.

[Assistant] And they stayed and the teachers came to them.

[User] That's right. That's right. Yeah. The forms did not move from their room. And the, the dormitory was very, very inadequate. The students slept two to each level of a bunk bed.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was, you know, an outhouse that was overflowing and really, really poor food.

[Assistant] So for the first couple of weeks, you were living at the mission?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was, you know, an outhouse that was overflowing and really, really poor food.

[Assistant] So for the first couple of weeks, you were living at the mission?

[User] For the first six months.

[Assistant] Six months.

[User] Which was difficult.

[Assistant] Did, now were you able to set up housekeeping or were you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the first six months.

[Assistant] Six months.

[User] Which was difficult.

[Assistant] Did, now were you able to set up housekeeping or were you?

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] So it was, it was your own house.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] So it was, it was your own house.

[User] It was our own house, yeah. It was a house that was vacant on the mission. And Peace Corps rented it from them until our house was done. And, and there were definitely tensions between us and the missionaries.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And, uh, you know, they wanted us to go to the Pentecostal church and we said thank you, but no.

[Assistant] What about the adjustment to, you know, buying food, cooking meals?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was our own house, yeah. It was a house that was vacant on the mission. And Peace Corps rented it from them until our house was done. And, and there were definitely tensions between us and the missionaries.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And, uh, you know, they wanted us to go to the Pentecostal church and we said thank you, but no.

[Assistant] What about the adjustment to, you know, buying food, cooking meals?

[User] You know, it was so easy for us. I love to cook. I didn't know at that time just how much I love to cook. But I'm very grateful for having learned to cook in Kenya because I can make anything from scratch. And I can make anything from anything.

[Assistant] Yeah. Now, where did you get the food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, you know, they wanted us to go to the Pentecostal church and we said thank you, but no.

[Assistant] What about the adjustment to, you know, buying food, cooking meals?

[User] You know, it was so easy for us. I love to cook. I didn't know at that time just how much I love to cook. But I'm very grateful for having learned to cook in Kenya because I can make anything from scratch. And I can make anything from anything.

[Assistant] Yeah. Now, where did you get the food?

[User] We had a lot of people who came to our door with pineapples, cabbage, tomatoes, onions. Four miles from us was a little town of Kehancha where we got our mail and there was a market once a week so we could go there and we could buy meat. But the meat there was really pretty gross. And remember, I had just graduated from laboratory science school, so my last course had been parasitology. So every time I walked into the meat market, it was like tapeworms, you know?

[Assistant] Did you get eggs and chicken?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a lot of people who came to our door with pineapples, cabbage, tomatoes, onions. Four miles from us was a little town of Kehancha where we got our mail and there was a market once a week so we could go there and we could buy meat. But the meat there was really pretty gross. And remember, I had just graduated from laboratory science school, so my last course had been parasitology. So every time I walked into the meat market, it was like tapeworms, you know?

[Assistant] Did you get eggs and chicken?

[User] We got eggs locally. Jim alluded last night to the little girl who would steal our eggs. She would walk into this, our little store room and come out with two eggs that she would then offer to sell to us. I'm sure she's done just fine.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then once a month, we would, well, about every couple, I'd say from once a week to every two weeks, we'd go into Migori, which was 26 miles away. And that was a proper town.

[Assistant] How would you, how would you get there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We got eggs locally. Jim alluded last night to the little girl who would steal our eggs. She would walk into this, our little store room and come out with two eggs that she would then offer to sell to us. I'm sure she's done just fine.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then once a month, we would, well, about every couple, I'd say from once a week to every two weeks, we'd go into Migori, which was 26 miles away. And that was a proper town.

[Assistant] How would you, how would you get there?

[User] Country bus. There was a bus that went on our road and continued for 11 miles to a place called Nyamtiro, where it would turn around, it would spend the night, and turn around and come back.

[Assistant] And that was virtually the Tanzanian border, wasn't it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Really close. We were, we were probably crow's flight five miles from the border, but up at Nyamtiro, it was right on the border.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And we had two busses. One was, uh, one was named Jamluo and the other was named Love in Tokyo. And they were supposed to come a half an hour, an hour apart. But they raced.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so you just had to jump on whichever one stopped and.

[Assistant] Yeah. Cooper didn't offer to take you into market, or into Migori?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Cooper was a, he was a very kind person. He was very inept and really turned a blind eye to a lot of really bad stuff that was going on because he didn't want to deal with it, but he was basically a good person. And so he would do things like drive sick people to the dispensary and occasionally we would catch a ride with him up to Kisii, which was 70 miles away. But we really tried to distance ourselves from the mission because for one thing, when we got there and we lived on the mission, everybody assumed we were missionaries.

[Assistant] Ah, yeah.

[User] And so this was something we wanted to just definitely counter.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] At that time, you know, we, we had been cautioned about mini skirts and all of this, of course, but, but long shorts were fine. And, and so that separated us from the mission. And then we would sit on our front porch and drink beer, and that separated us from the missionaries.

[Assistant] What was the mission's relation to the school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so this was something we wanted to just definitely counter.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] At that time, you know, we, we had been cautioned about mini skirts and all of this, of course, but, but long shorts were fine. And, and so that separated us from the mission. And then we would sit on our front porch and drink beer, and that separated us from the missionaries.

[Assistant] What was the mission's relation to the school?

[User] Well, they supplied teachers at this point. At this point, they were completely out of power as far as the administration of the school, particularly with the government students. But they did have teachers. And tell you the truth, I can't remember if Roy, he must, he must have taught Bible. Bible was a subject that all students do, and I'm sure he taught Bible. I don't remember him teaching anything else. We had the headmaster. We had a wonderful, wonderful Kenyan named Jerry Magovey, who was a science teacher. And he and I set up the science lab.

[Assistant] Was Jerry a university graduate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they supplied teachers at this point. At this point, they were completely out of power as far as the administration of the school, particularly with the government students. But they did have teachers. And tell you the truth, I can't remember if Roy, he must, he must have taught Bible. Bible was a subject that all students do, and I'm sure he taught Bible. I don't remember him teaching anything else. We had the headmaster. We had a wonderful, wonderful Kenyan named Jerry Magovey, who was a science teacher. And he and I set up the science lab.

[Assistant] Was Jerry a university graduate?

[User] Yeah, a teachers college at least, I don't remember. But the other thing at our school compound were two brand new buildings built by, um, Crossroads Africa.

[Assistant] Oh!

[User] With the symbol of the Black and the white hand shaking and [sneezes]. Excuse me. And one was to be a library and one a science laboratory. And the science laboratory had the benches in and the faucets and things. Of course, there was no running water, but they had the, uh, the fixtures. And there was a storeroom that was just packed with books that had been sent. So our two big projects were to do the library, Jim and I did the library, and then Jerry and I did the science lab, to get that set up, which was just wonderful fun.

[Assistant] How many, how many other staff members were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] With the symbol of the Black and the white hand shaking and [sneezes]. Excuse me. And one was to be a library and one a science laboratory. And the science laboratory had the benches in and the faucets and things. Of course, there was no running water, but they had the, uh, the fixtures. And there was a storeroom that was just packed with books that had been sent. So our two big projects were to do the library, Jim and I did the library, and then Jerry and I did the science lab, to get that set up, which was just wonderful fun.

[Assistant] How many, how many other staff members were there?

[User] Usually it was just the four of us, and intermittently we would have other staff members. Now, after six months, we moved to the school compound, which was glorious, and then a new couple came to the mission. They were exactly our age. They arrived, their names were Bill and Juanita Foy. They arrived during Richard Nixon's inaugural address. Well, no, that's right. They came January 20th. So we overlapped living on the mission. They must have been in a different house. Yeah, there were three houses there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And they arrived during the speech, which was certainly fortuitous, as they got all excited about it. We were completely depressed. Anyway, and they were awful. They were just awful.

[Assistant] Where were they from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they arrived during the speech, which was certainly fortuitous, as they got all excited about it. We were completely depressed. Anyway, and they were awful. They were just awful.

[Assistant] Where were they from?

[User] They were from, they had gone, he had gone to Oral Roberts University.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I don't, honestly don't remember where they were from. I mean, we never even called them by their first names. We just wanted to keep as much distance.

[Assistant] So they were missionaries.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were from, they had gone, he had gone to Oral Roberts University.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I don't, honestly don't remember where they were from. I mean, we never even called them by their first names. We just wanted to keep as much distance.

[Assistant] So they were missionaries.

[User] They were missionaries who had been called to Taranganya. But then when they found out that they had outdoor plumbing and a rain tank for water, they discovered that really they were called to teach at the Bible school in Nairobi. And thank God, after about six months they left.

[Assistant] But for the six months they were teachers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't, honestly don't remember where they were from. I mean, we never even called them by their first names. We just wanted to keep as much distance.

[Assistant] So they were missionaries.

[User] They were missionaries who had been called to Taranganya. But then when they found out that they had outdoor plumbing and a rain tank for water, they discovered that really they were called to teach at the Bible school in Nairobi. And thank God, after about six months they left.

[Assistant] But for the six months they were teachers?

[User] He was a teacher and she was forced into it, shamed into it, I should say, by the headmaster. She said, I came here to be a wife, not a teacher. And he said, but you speak English. And so she did teach English. And then when they left, I took over her English classes. And I had a very funny experience where one student wrote in an essay that they could tell I was not a missionary because I did not wear my glasses perched upon my nose or my skirts about my ankles.

[Assistant] Great description. Let's talk a little bit about your adjustment of walking into this classroom.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were missionaries who had been called to Taranganya. But then when they found out that they had outdoor plumbing and a rain tank for water, they discovered that really they were called to teach at the Bible school in Nairobi. And thank God, after about six months they left.

[Assistant] But for the six months they were teachers?

[User] He was a teacher and she was forced into it, shamed into it, I should say, by the headmaster. She said, I came here to be a wife, not a teacher. And he said, but you speak English. And so she did teach English. And then when they left, I took over her English classes. And I had a very funny experience where one student wrote in an essay that they could tell I was not a missionary because I did not wear my glasses perched upon my nose or my skirts about my ankles.

[Assistant] Great description. Let's talk a little bit about your adjustment of walking into this classroom.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So were you at all familiar with the Kenya education system?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was a teacher and she was forced into it, shamed into it, I should say, by the headmaster. She said, I came here to be a wife, not a teacher. And he said, but you speak English. And so she did teach English. And then when they left, I took over her English classes. And I had a very funny experience where one student wrote in an essay that they could tell I was not a missionary because I did not wear my glasses perched upon my nose or my skirts about my ankles.

[Assistant] Great description. Let's talk a little bit about your adjustment of walking into this classroom.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So were you at all familiar with the Kenya education system?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And the expectations built into it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And the expectations built into it?

[User] Yes. We had gotten a fairly good orientation to that. And I don't remember if that was in Kenya or in New York because. [tape break] Let's see, I was saying that we had been prepared that for things like that the students would not be a discipline problem, that we would be expected to teach to the syllabus.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And that we couldn't get too freewheeling because they had to take the, the Kenyan version of the Cambridge exam to get their high school diploma.

[Assistant] Did you have copies of the syllabus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We had gotten a fairly good orientation to that. And I don't remember if that was in Kenya or in New York because. [tape break] Let's see, I was saying that we had been prepared that for things like that the students would not be a discipline problem, that we would be expected to teach to the syllabus.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And that we couldn't get too freewheeling because they had to take the, the Kenyan version of the Cambridge exam to get their high school diploma.

[Assistant] Did you have copies of the syllabus?

[User] Yes, we did.

[Assistant] And but the students you were beginning to teach, you would not see through the exam because they would go through four years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that we couldn't get too freewheeling because they had to take the, the Kenyan version of the Cambridge exam to get their high school diploma.

[Assistant] Did you have copies of the syllabus?

[User] Yes, we did.

[Assistant] And but the students you were beginning to teach, you would not see through the exam because they would go through four years.

[User] Right. Only some of our, the fourth and third formers when we started. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. And your initial teaching was? What was your assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I taught biology, chemistry to kids who had never seen ice. It was a challenge.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Um, geography. Math.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Um, and one other thing. Oh, health science or health.

[Assistant] And you were only teaching form one?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, and one other thing. Oh, health science or health.

[Assistant] And you were only teaching form one?

[User] Oh, no. We were teaching all the forms.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] We just, we sat down. We had a staff meeting. It was just Jerry Magovey, Mr. Obiero, the headmaster, Jim and myself and Roy. And divvied up the courses. And I'm almost sure he only taught Bible. But then when other missionaries came, they did teach some English or some physics or whatever.

[Assistant] And so how many periods a day were you teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no. We were teaching all the forms.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] We just, we sat down. We had a staff meeting. It was just Jerry Magovey, Mr. Obiero, the headmaster, Jim and myself and Roy. And divvied up the courses. And I'm almost sure he only taught Bible. But then when other missionaries came, they did teach some English or some physics or whatever.

[Assistant] And so how many periods a day were you teaching?

[User] It was a lot.

[Assistant] Yeah, that sounds like it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it must have been, I wouldn't be surprised if it was eight periods a day.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Like four in the morning, four in the afternoon. That may, it may not have been eight. It may have been six.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But it was all day. All day, every day, kind of.

[Assistant] When did, when did school start?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like four in the morning, four in the afternoon. That may, it may not have been eight. It may have been six.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But it was all day. All day, every day, kind of.

[Assistant] When did, when did school start?

[User] It started about the first week of January. I think we were there about a week before it started. But of course, it was supposed to start then but many students didn't show up, which was something we didn't understand, and learned that what was happening is they were out begging for school fees. And they would come with enough money to pay for two weeks and then they would disappear again. It was so painful, so hard, and it seemed to always be the best students.

[Assistant] Do you recall your initial introduction to the classroom and the students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, not as a specific incident, but just as an overall impression. I can remember just being totally blown away when the whole classroom stood up. I mean, I didn't grow up in circumstances where anybody stood up for everybody, right?

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I also really, oh, I know. I think they couldn't say Beverwyck. And at that time, I had taken Jim's name. I just took my own name back later. And so they couldn't say Beverwyck. And so they called us Mr. Jim and Mrs. Jim. And it just made me crazy. So I finally got them to call me Mrs. Mary. That was fine. I just did not want to be called Mrs. Jim. And the other thing that I remember it being very hard to adjust to, but that was, was fine, was madam. The madam.

[Assistant] Yes. Yes.

[User] So just some of those cultural things were just kind of, um,, not really. Well, they were just, they were strange to us, you know.

[Assistant] Up to the point you started teaching, you'd been in country for?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I also really, oh, I know. I think they couldn't say Beverwyck. And at that time, I had taken Jim's name. I just took my own name back later. And so they couldn't say Beverwyck. And so they called us Mr. Jim and Mrs. Jim. And it just made me crazy. So I finally got them to call me Mrs. Mary. That was fine. I just did not want to be called Mrs. Jim. And the other thing that I remember it being very hard to adjust to, but that was, was fine, was madam. The madam.

[Assistant] Yes. Yes.

[User] So just some of those cultural things were just kind of, um,, not really. Well, they were just, they were strange to us, you know.

[Assistant] Up to the point you started teaching, you'd been in country for?

[User] Three weeks.

[Assistant] Three weeks. Did you get any chance or did you begin to use your Swahili?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So just some of those cultural things were just kind of, um,, not really. Well, they were just, they were strange to us, you know.

[Assistant] Up to the point you started teaching, you'd been in country for?

[User] Three weeks.

[Assistant] Three weeks. Did you get any chance or did you begin to use your Swahili?

[User] Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah. We tried it out different times. And once we got up to Taranganya, we had to use it.

[Assistant] Yeah. But only off the school compound?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Three weeks.

[Assistant] Three weeks. Did you get any chance or did you begin to use your Swahili?

[User] Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah. We tried it out different times. And once we got up to Taranganya, we had to use it.

[Assistant] Yeah. But only off the school compound?

[User] Well, yeah, we didn't, we didn't very often speak Swahili with the students because they were learning English.

[Assistant] Was that a school rule?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah. We tried it out different times. And once we got up to Taranganya, we had to use it.

[Assistant] Yeah. But only off the school compound?

[User] Well, yeah, we didn't, we didn't very often speak Swahili with the students because they were learning English.

[Assistant] Was that a school rule?

[User] Um, no, I don't remember it being a school rule.

[Assistant] But back to your initial teaching, were there, did they understand your spoken English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yeah, we didn't, we didn't very often speak Swahili with the students because they were learning English.

[Assistant] Was that a school rule?

[User] Um, no, I don't remember it being a school rule.

[Assistant] But back to your initial teaching, were there, did they understand your spoken English?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, they did, pretty well. I mean, there were certain words, wish I could remember what some of them were now, but we didn't have much trouble communicating. We, actually, um, I don't remember that we were told this term of special English, but I think we both slipped pretty easily into that, of speaking clearly and articulating.

[Assistant] And dropping slang.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, no, I don't remember it being a school rule.

[Assistant] But back to your initial teaching, were there, did they understand your spoken English?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, they did, pretty well. I mean, there were certain words, wish I could remember what some of them were now, but we didn't have much trouble communicating. We, actually, um, I don't remember that we were told this term of special English, but I think we both slipped pretty easily into that, of speaking clearly and articulating.

[Assistant] And dropping slang.

[User] Right. Exactly. Exactly.

[Assistant] And you were, you were able to understand the students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, they did, pretty well. I mean, there were certain words, wish I could remember what some of them were now, but we didn't have much trouble communicating. We, actually, um, I don't remember that we were told this term of special English, but I think we both slipped pretty easily into that, of speaking clearly and articulating.

[Assistant] And dropping slang.

[User] Right. Exactly. Exactly.

[Assistant] And you were, you were able to understand the students?

[User] Most of them. There were some who really didn't belong in the school.

[Assistant] Yeah. How quickly did you learn school, names and begin to distinguish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Exactly. Exactly.

[Assistant] And you were, you were able to understand the students?

[User] Most of them. There were some who really didn't belong in the school.

[Assistant] Yeah. How quickly did you learn school, names and begin to distinguish?

[User] Oh, gosh, I think really quickly. I don't remember that being a problem at all.

[Assistant] Was it was it a coed school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Most of them. There were some who really didn't belong in the school.

[Assistant] Yeah. How quickly did you learn school, names and begin to distinguish?

[User] Oh, gosh, I think really quickly. I don't remember that being a problem at all.

[Assistant] Was it was it a coed school?

[User] No, it was all boys.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. How, how did the initial teaching go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, gosh, I think really quickly. I don't remember that being a problem at all.

[Assistant] Was it was it a coed school?

[User] No, it was all boys.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. How, how did the initial teaching go?

[User] Well, I think it went all right. Um. You know, again, back to my hang ups about writing. I just, I just felt like I really was not equipped to correct essays, that I didn't know enough about writing myself. But then when I realized what it meant in Kenya, I was okay with it because it was so basic. It was so basic.

[Assistant] Did you have any form four classes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was all boys.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. How, how did the initial teaching go?

[User] Well, I think it went all right. Um. You know, again, back to my hang ups about writing. I just, I just felt like I really was not equipped to correct essays, that I didn't know enough about writing myself. But then when I realized what it meant in Kenya, I was okay with it because it was so basic. It was so basic.

[Assistant] Did you have any form four classes?

[User] I had form four probably for geography or biology or something, but not English.

[Assistant] And do you recall the students being concerned because they were about to face the exam?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had form four probably for geography or biology or something, but not English.

[Assistant] And do you recall the students being concerned because they were about to face the exam?

[User] Tremendously. I can remember one time we were doing something in biology that had to do with botany, and so I wanted to take them out, or I did take them out on a little field trip around the compound looking at different specimens, and they were really pissed. It's like, Madame, is this on the syllabus?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, very challenging because they were so, so concerned about knowing what they needed to know for that exam.

[Assistant] They couldn't take the exams that required a lab component?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, very challenging because they were so, so concerned about knowing what they needed to know for that exam.

[Assistant] They couldn't take the exams that required a lab component?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So it was all whatever they took was going to be a, they could be examined with paper and pencil.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So it was all whatever they took was going to be a, they could be examined with paper and pencil.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Yeah. And I think biology falls into that category.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So it was all whatever they took was going to be a, they could be examined with paper and pencil.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Yeah. And I think biology falls into that category.

[User] Oh, I'm sure.

[Assistant] Whereas chemistry doesn't. Okay. So there was pressure there. Make you uncomfortable or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I'm sure.

[Assistant] Whereas chemistry doesn't. Okay. So there was pressure there. Make you uncomfortable or?

[User] Yeah, it did, because it seemed really restrictive. And neither Jim nor I wanted to just do what the students wanted us to do, which was to just copy from a book onto the board for them to copy into their exercise books.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so it was an adjustment for them to get used to our teaching style and there were some kids who challenged it. But as I was telling you last night, when we met these people 26 years later, they said things to us like, you taught us how to think. We can't ask for more than that.

[Assistant] It must have been easy with the lower forms to sort of open up the teaching.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it did, because it seemed really restrictive. And neither Jim nor I wanted to just do what the students wanted us to do, which was to just copy from a book onto the board for them to copy into their exercise books.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so it was an adjustment for them to get used to our teaching style and there were some kids who challenged it. But as I was telling you last night, when we met these people 26 years later, they said things to us like, you taught us how to think. We can't ask for more than that.

[Assistant] It must have been easy with the lower forms to sort of open up the teaching.

[User] It was easier for a couple of reasons. One, because they were not already so much into that system, but also they were the government students, and they really were much sharper.

[Assistant] They tended to be better.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so it was an adjustment for them to get used to our teaching style and there were some kids who challenged it. But as I was telling you last night, when we met these people 26 years later, they said things to us like, you taught us how to think. We can't ask for more than that.

[Assistant] It must have been easy with the lower forms to sort of open up the teaching.

[User] It was easier for a couple of reasons. One, because they were not already so much into that system, but also they were the government students, and they really were much sharper.

[Assistant] They tended to be better.

[User] Yeah, definitely.

[Assistant] Did you have any professional contact with the principal, in other words, with the headmaster?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was easier for a couple of reasons. One, because they were not already so much into that system, but also they were the government students, and they really were much sharper.

[Assistant] They tended to be better.

[User] Yeah, definitely.

[Assistant] Did you have any professional contact with the principal, in other words, with the headmaster?

[User] Oh, yeah. Daily.

[Assistant] Did he, did he come in and observe you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't remember him doing that. He was very nervous, very threatened by Jim. He was sure that Jim wanted his job.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] And, you know, we, we tried to just maintain a friendly relationship with him, but it did get difficult. And actually, I'll let Jim tell you about this whole thing where we actually asked Peace Corps to come out and mediate a disagreement with him.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But it really involved Jim mostly. I mean, he wasn't threatened by me. I was just a dumb woman, right?

[Assistant] So the first six months you're living on the mission, you're teaching full time. Did it fall into place fairly quickly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it did. You know, one of the things that you have as a Peace Corps volunteer that you don't have here is a lack of distraction.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, you're there and it's your life.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And, and to be working in the same job as your partner really was so wonderful. We were able to do that very well. And we had brought a, Jim had brought his typewriter. So we had our manual typewriter.

[Assistant] And you had a duplicating machine.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, you're there and it's your life.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And, and to be working in the same job as your partner really was so wonderful. We were able to do that very well. And we had brought a, Jim had brought his typewriter. So we had our manual typewriter.

[Assistant] And you had a duplicating machine.

[User] We had a duplicating machine. So we did a lot of that.

[Assistant] Did you have extracurricular responsibilities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, and to be working in the same job as your partner really was so wonderful. We were able to do that very well. And we had brought a, Jim had brought his typewriter. So we had our manual typewriter.

[Assistant] And you had a duplicating machine.

[User] We had a duplicating machine. So we did a lot of that.

[Assistant] Did you have extracurricular responsibilities?

[User] Yeah, we did. And I can't remember if we were told we had to or it was just so exciting to do the library and the lab. Those were long term projects.

[Assistant] It's kind of an expectation at boarding schools.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a duplicating machine. So we did a lot of that.

[Assistant] Did you have extracurricular responsibilities?

[User] Yeah, we did. And I can't remember if we were told we had to or it was just so exciting to do the library and the lab. Those were long term projects.

[Assistant] It's kind of an expectation at boarding schools.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it was. And Jim coached, uh, track.

[Assistant] What did he coach?