[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. So I remember more about talking about the hippies than about Vietnam. I became interested when I was in India about Vietnam but not before.

[Assistant] Okay, so final selection and you're chosen. What happens at that point?

[User] At that point, we were told. We were told about the team that we had and they combined our team with the other split training group that went, that was trained in Williams, Williams College. And I ended up, most of my, all of the people that I worked with had been trained in Williams College. So they weren't the people that I was trained with at Dartmouth. But then we went home. We were, we went home for a while, like about a week. And then we were supposed to all meet in New York.

[Assistant] While you were home, was there a grand celebration going or is just quiet? And did you have any second thoughts?

[User] No. I was just looking forward to the adventure.

[Assistant] Did anyone and nobody tried to say, oh, please don't go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I was just looking forward to the adventure.

[Assistant] Did anyone and nobody tried to say, oh, please don't go?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I don't think at that time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So then you had the week home and you report to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I don't think at that time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So then you had the week home and you report to.

[User] Well, then we were supposed to meet in New York and go out of there, but we ended up spending an extra couple of days in New York because they didn't have visas for us. We had a problem with the visas, and so we didn't know how long we'd be in New York, but we were. So we were put up in hotels for a couple of days in New York. We finally got to go, so we were tired.

[Assistant] And that was your first time in New York City?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think at that time.

[Assistant] Yeah. So then you had the week home and you report to.

[User] Well, then we were supposed to meet in New York and go out of there, but we ended up spending an extra couple of days in New York because they didn't have visas for us. We had a problem with the visas, and so we didn't know how long we'd be in New York, but we were. So we were put up in hotels for a couple of days in New York. We finally got to go, so we were tired.

[Assistant] And that was your first time in New York City?

[User] That was the first time in New York City.

[Assistant] Did you have a chance to do a little tour?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, then we were supposed to meet in New York and go out of there, but we ended up spending an extra couple of days in New York because they didn't have visas for us. We had a problem with the visas, and so we didn't know how long we'd be in New York, but we were. So we were put up in hotels for a couple of days in New York. We finally got to go, so we were tired.

[Assistant] And that was your first time in New York City?

[User] That was the first time in New York City.

[Assistant] Did you have a chance to do a little tour?

[User] Yes, we did. We did, we went to some of the things. Uh huh. But we also couldn't do a lot because we never knew, you know, in a couple hours we might get a visa and leave or whatever.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. And talk about the trip, how you got to India and your initial reaction and arriving there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then came back and we flew to Pakistan. But there we just were there in the airport for an hour or so. And oh, the heat, the heat, the heat was almost too much. The first time realizing we were, the heat was going to be a big, big factor.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And then we went to Delhi and it wasn't the heat. It was the smell.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] It hit you.

[Assistant] Yes. So you arrived, you arrived in India. You went into Delhi. Was there a reception or just?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were told, do not drink the water. Do not drink the water. Even when you brush your teeth, do not drink the water. Well, I drink the water. I spit out, but I drank the water. I got dysentery. And I got sick.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I, as a matter of fact, I ended up in the hospital. Then we went on a bus from there to go to our village.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] After that. And I ended up at the hospital for a few days before I went to my village.

[Assistant] So you were in the hospital in Hyderabad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I, as a matter of fact, I ended up in the hospital. Then we went on a bus from there to go to our village.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] After that. And I ended up at the hospital for a few days before I went to my village.

[Assistant] So you were in the hospital in Hyderabad?

[User] No, not in Hyderabad. I was beyond that in, uh, near Bangalore. When I was out there, it was, it was a town that had, it was, had a lot of the big mission hospital and where they had a lot of leper colony. I don't remember the name of the town.

[Assistant] So you mentioned, you mentioned that you became part of a team and most of the team trained elsewhere. What was the team concept? I don't, how is that supposed to work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] After that. And I ended up at the hospital for a few days before I went to my village.

[Assistant] So you were in the hospital in Hyderabad?

[User] No, not in Hyderabad. I was beyond that in, uh, near Bangalore. When I was out there, it was, it was a town that had, it was, had a lot of the big mission hospital and where they had a lot of leper colony. I don't remember the name of the town.

[Assistant] So you mentioned, you mentioned that you became part of a team and most of the team trained elsewhere. What was the team concept? I don't, how is that supposed to work?

[User] Right. The team concept was that one person was the boahdi, which is nursery school, to start the nursery school. But the reason to start the nursery school was not for education, but it was to feed with the mid- day meal. And so you had someone else that was the, was my roommate. Then later was the one who was working on community gardens. Someone else was raising poultry. And we had a nurse in the group.

[Assistant] And on that team, who were you on the team? Which role were you playing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not in Hyderabad. I was beyond that in, uh, near Bangalore. When I was out there, it was, it was a town that had, it was, had a lot of the big mission hospital and where they had a lot of leper colony. I don't remember the name of the town.

[Assistant] So you mentioned, you mentioned that you became part of a team and most of the team trained elsewhere. What was the team concept? I don't, how is that supposed to work?

[User] Right. The team concept was that one person was the boahdi, which is nursery school, to start the nursery school. But the reason to start the nursery school was not for education, but it was to feed with the mid- day meal. And so you had someone else that was the, was my roommate. Then later was the one who was working on community gardens. Someone else was raising poultry. And we had a nurse in the group.

[Assistant] And on that team, who were you on the team? Which role were you playing?

[User] I was, I was the starting nursery school.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. And that had been part of your training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. The team concept was that one person was the boahdi, which is nursery school, to start the nursery school. But the reason to start the nursery school was not for education, but it was to feed with the mid- day meal. And so you had someone else that was the, was my roommate. Then later was the one who was working on community gardens. Someone else was raising poultry. And we had a nurse in the group.

[Assistant] And on that team, who were you on the team? Which role were you playing?

[User] I was, I was the starting nursery school.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. And that had been part of your training?

[User] That had been part of my training, right, with the Head Start, just doing that. It not as, I guess what I wasn't trained at and what I, or I don't remember being trained as much, but a lot of what we did was more for starting nursery schools, it's more community organization than working with our coworkers. And then there was money from CARE to get the money there that I was able to do that.

[Assistant] Now, a lot of the program was based on distributing CARE food in a school lunch program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it wasn't. It was, we got the UNICEF packets were the, for the garden, the beans, something else. And then someone raised the poultry and you had eggs with the poultry.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so for food for the community garden. So my part was just getting a teacher and getting the building and getting, you know, the part for the, for the nursery school.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I spent a lot of time, I had a coworker and most of us had coworkers. I got along very well with my coworker.

[Assistant] Yeah, well, let's, let's. So what's the name of the village you finally ended up in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so for food for the community garden. So my part was just getting a teacher and getting the building and getting, you know, the part for the, for the nursery school.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I spent a lot of time, I had a coworker and most of us had coworkers. I got along very well with my coworker.

[Assistant] Yeah, well, let's, let's. So what's the name of the village you finally ended up in?

[User] Chandragiri.

[Assistant] Chandragiri. When you got to Chandragiri, you must have been a little late because you were in the hospital.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I spent a lot of time, I had a coworker and most of us had coworkers. I got along very well with my coworker.

[Assistant] Yeah, well, let's, let's. So what's the name of the village you finally ended up in?

[User] Chandragiri.

[Assistant] Chandragiri. When you got to Chandragiri, you must have been a little late because you were in the hospital.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] The others on the team had already been there? Were you the first Peace Corps to go into that village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Chandragiri.

[Assistant] Chandragiri. When you got to Chandragiri, you must have been a little late because you were in the hospital.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] The others on the team had already been there? Were you the first Peace Corps to go into that village?

[User] Yes, we were the first Peace Corps to go in that village.

[Assistant] And was, had someone arranged housing for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It had electricity. And also we were given two Raleigh bicycles.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] And we were given, they were supposed to be Raleigh. We had Raleighs. Some people didn't. But that we, because we were told, they were told that the Indian bicycles wouldn't hold Americans.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we had English, we got three speed bicycles.

[Assistant] Yeah. Talk about your living arrangement. You first come into the village now. You're finally at the end of your Peace Corps journey in a way. I mean, because you've finally come to the point where you're going to work. Talk about your reaction and settling into the living arrangement, and then we'll talk about your work situation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we were given, they were supposed to be Raleigh. We had Raleighs. Some people didn't. But that we, because we were told, they were told that the Indian bicycles wouldn't hold Americans.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we had English, we got three speed bicycles.

[Assistant] Yeah. Talk about your living arrangement. You first come into the village now. You're finally at the end of your Peace Corps journey in a way. I mean, because you've finally come to the point where you're going to work. Talk about your reaction and settling into the living arrangement, and then we'll talk about your work situation.

[User] Okay, right. Well, we worked in groups, but Wendy Cutter and I were the only ones assigned to our village, were there. We were in a mahila mandel, it's an area group. So the other two people that were doing the chickens, as she was doing the garden. I was doing the nursery school.

[Assistant] Wendy was doing the garden?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two people that were in chickens were in a different village. But we could, with our bicycles, we could get there.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] In another village that was a little further off, a couple lived there and she was the nurse. I'm not sure his role.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But they were, we had to go through. And Chandragiri is right at the foothills of Tirumala and Tirumala is a big shrine, a Hindu shrine and a temple. And it's, people go there when they thank for everything. And I mean, it's a very wealthy temple and they, they gave Nehru his weight in gold during the Crimean crisis. And so a lot of people would come up there. We would see a lot of, you know, Indian tourists that would go there or that would come from other states do that.

[Assistant] But those weren't the people you were working with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But they were, we had to go through. And Chandragiri is right at the foothills of Tirumala and Tirumala is a big shrine, a Hindu shrine and a temple. And it's, people go there when they thank for everything. And I mean, it's a very wealthy temple and they, they gave Nehru his weight in gold during the Crimean crisis. And so a lot of people would come up there. We would see a lot of, you know, Indian tourists that would go there or that would come from other states do that.

[Assistant] But those weren't the people you were working with?

[User] No, but we were, we were working with more than, I guess, the typical villagers. Almost all the people that we worked with spoke some English.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Some of them were working with the temple in some way, doing that. There was a, a government compound that my coworker lived in. She lived there with her husband, and they would have some type of meetings in this compound that we would go to and do that, which is. And then, then I would. She would go out to different mahila mandels, which were women's groups, and just talking about different things, you know, for sanitation, for sewing, for different like that. And I would go with her to these different villages to do that.

[Assistant] Now, what was the, the local government structure or organization with which you worked? I mean, you weren't working on your own. You must have been.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, but we were, we were working with more than, I guess, the typical villagers. Almost all the people that we worked with spoke some English.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Some of them were working with the temple in some way, doing that. There was a, a government compound that my coworker lived in. She lived there with her husband, and they would have some type of meetings in this compound that we would go to and do that, which is. And then, then I would. She would go out to different mahila mandels, which were women's groups, and just talking about different things, you know, for sanitation, for sewing, for different like that. And I would go with her to these different villages to do that.

[Assistant] Now, what was the, the local government structure or organization with which you worked? I mean, you weren't working on your own. You must have been.

[User] We were not, it were, right. It was this, a little area wide development that was the government compound that served that village that we lived in, plus other villages. And it was sort of like we have.

[Assistant] Like a county government?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of them were working with the temple in some way, doing that. There was a, a government compound that my coworker lived in. She lived there with her husband, and they would have some type of meetings in this compound that we would go to and do that, which is. And then, then I would. She would go out to different mahila mandels, which were women's groups, and just talking about different things, you know, for sanitation, for sewing, for different like that. And I would go with her to these different villages to do that.

[Assistant] Now, what was the, the local government structure or organization with which you worked? I mean, you weren't working on your own. You must have been.

[User] We were not, it were, right. It was this, a little area wide development that was the government compound that served that village that we lived in, plus other villages. And it was sort of like we have.

[Assistant] Like a county government?

[User] Like a county government and county, say, the county extension people that did everything. There wasn't a post office, but these were ones that were supporting the agriculture in the area.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. And so you had a counterpart whose work was identical to yours?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, her. Her work, her work.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Was with the nursery school, was with the community groups, the women's groups in the different communities.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so I worked with her doing that. My job was to start the nursery schools and she sort of introduced me to people.

[Assistant] Well, how in the world do you start nursery schools?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Was with the nursery school, was with the community groups, the women's groups in the different communities.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so I worked with her doing that. My job was to start the nursery schools and she sort of introduced me to people.

[Assistant] Well, how in the world do you start nursery schools?

[User] Well.

[Assistant] Had they ever had them before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, yes. One of the, one of the villages had a school, but it wasn't just a nursery school. It was different levels.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The grades. And we went there and it was so her. She just added younger children to her school. This was one that we sort of worked with and did that. I've kept in touch with her, you know, to this day.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Do that. Another one, what we wanted to open a temporary one. And so we did it in what was a closed temple and.

[Assistant] We being you and your counterpart?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Do that. Another one, what we wanted to open a temporary one. And so we did it in what was a closed temple and.

[Assistant] We being you and your counterpart?

[User] Right. But so to start this. But one of the ways that was, that she said she really accepted me and felt that is because at the beginning of the, when the compound by where the temple was, there was a leper who was guarding it and doing that. And that didn't bother me. And she thought that was wonderful.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Because she, she, they were she was so afraid that American and being so clean and healthy and everything would say, oh, we can't, have to move to remove that person. But I didn't see any need to.

[Assistant] You didn't have a problem with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. But so to start this. But one of the ways that was, that she said she really accepted me and felt that is because at the beginning of the, when the compound by where the temple was, there was a leper who was guarding it and doing that. And that didn't bother me. And she thought that was wonderful.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Because she, she, they were she was so afraid that American and being so clean and healthy and everything would say, oh, we can't, have to move to remove that person. But I didn't see any need to.

[Assistant] You didn't have a problem with that?

[User] I did not have a problem with it.

[Assistant] In your first week there, did you have any chance to use your Telugu?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the cook, of course, would basically, didn't speak much English.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so we had a cook. But the cook, what the food this cook, this young man had, I don't think he'd ever cooked before. And he didn't last long but.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] We had to use, yes, Telugu whatever. Right. My roommate actually, because she had been trained at Williams and I guess because she had more experience and was good with languages, she was, knew more Telugu than I did.

[Assistant] Right. So let's talk about your domestic arrangements. So you had, you and your roommate had your own place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so we had a cook. But the cook, what the food this cook, this young man had, I don't think he'd ever cooked before. And he didn't last long but.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] We had to use, yes, Telugu whatever. Right. My roommate actually, because she had been trained at Williams and I guess because she had more experience and was good with languages, she was, knew more Telugu than I did.

[Assistant] Right. So let's talk about your domestic arrangements. So you had, you and your roommate had your own place?

[User] Right. We had our own house. It was really quite nice.

[Assistant] Yeah. And you had a steward who would take care of the house as well as cook?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had to use, yes, Telugu whatever. Right. My roommate actually, because she had been trained at Williams and I guess because she had more experience and was good with languages, she was, knew more Telugu than I did.

[Assistant] Right. So let's talk about your domestic arrangements. So you had, you and your roommate had your own place?

[User] Right. We had our own house. It was really quite nice.

[Assistant] Yeah. And you had a steward who would take care of the house as well as cook?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So describe, in the first few months, describe, tell me about a typical day. You get up, you had breakfast.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So yeah, we could, then after, after that, then we could go to the. With my coworker, then I might go with her and just go to a village.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] That we would walk to the village. I would go with her. My roommate would not.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] She was assigned a male who was harder for her to.

[Assistant] And her field is what, your roommate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was supposed to start the community gardens and she had more trouble doing that, Wendy did.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I would go out or else, and us because we, we would use this CARE, this upma which was sort of like a grain, a cereal type, that we would give right away and everybody that, they would have in the nursery school. So actually we would end up, maybe I would end up being around there at noon and that would be my lunch.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] They would serve, get hot peppers to, Indian peppers, to make it tasty.

[Assistant] Yeah. So over the first few months, there was one established school that you worked with and.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I would go out or else, and us because we, we would use this CARE, this upma which was sort of like a grain, a cereal type, that we would give right away and everybody that, they would have in the nursery school. So actually we would end up, maybe I would end up being around there at noon and that would be my lunch.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] They would serve, get hot peppers to, Indian peppers, to make it tasty.

[Assistant] Yeah. So over the first few months, there was one established school that you worked with and.

[User] Right. There was one established school that we worked with that teacher and we had a couple other teachers. No, there were two. One other teacher did something else there. Yeah, I guess maybe one at the beginning.

[Assistant] And did you actually start any nursery schools or work with the community to get one going?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To get a building, a permanent building?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Well, we, I mean, we started the nursery school in what was the temple. I arranged with all the CARE people and everything for a building to be constructed. It was going to be constructed. We got the land, we had everything arranged. It was time for me to leave.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I went back actually later and I'm not sure it was built. Or if it was built, it was not used for nursery school.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Well, let's, let's talk about, oh, six months into your service. How did you feel about the work you were doing? Did you feel there was something for you to do? It had shape. Could you, did it make sense?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went back actually later and I'm not sure it was built. Or if it was built, it was not used for nursery school.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Well, let's, let's talk about, oh, six months into your service. How did you feel about the work you were doing? Did you feel there was something for you to do? It had shape. Could you, did it make sense?

[User] Well, I mean, I think we understood that we were learning as much as they were, you know, as much as we were teaching them. And so to do that, trying to have an exchange with the other people and to do that. But we did, say every six months, we did then go in. We had conferences. So maybe after six months we all went to Hyderabad and we met with Peace Corps staff with everything there. They, we'd have to do that to keep up our shots, do everything else.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But then we would have a chance to compare experiences with other people and to see exactly what we were able to accomplish. We realized that we were sort of lucky, being in a house by ourself, having electricity and a bicycle.

[Assistant] Yeah. But as far as the work you were doing was, where others making the same kind of progress that you were or were you out ahead of it or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I mean, I think we understood that we were learning as much as they were, you know, as much as we were teaching them. And so to do that, trying to have an exchange with the other people and to do that. But we did, say every six months, we did then go in. We had conferences. So maybe after six months we all went to Hyderabad and we met with Peace Corps staff with everything there. They, we'd have to do that to keep up our shots, do everything else.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But then we would have a chance to compare experiences with other people and to see exactly what we were able to accomplish. We realized that we were sort of lucky, being in a house by ourself, having electricity and a bicycle.

[Assistant] Yeah. But as far as the work you were doing was, where others making the same kind of progress that you were or were you out ahead of it or?

[User] Most, I think most others were not making as much progress. And some people even, I mean, were not accepted at all in the community. I mean, where, you know, didn't want Americans there.

[Assistant] Who had decided to place you in that village and the people in the other villages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But then we would have a chance to compare experiences with other people and to see exactly what we were able to accomplish. We realized that we were sort of lucky, being in a house by ourself, having electricity and a bicycle.

[Assistant] Yeah. But as far as the work you were doing was, where others making the same kind of progress that you were or were you out ahead of it or?

[User] Most, I think most others were not making as much progress. And some people even, I mean, were not accepted at all in the community. I mean, where, you know, didn't want Americans there.

[Assistant] Who had decided to place you in that village and the people in the other villages?

[User] Who assigned them?

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, Peace Corps couldn't simply say we're sending people into a village, was there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Most, I think most others were not making as much progress. And some people even, I mean, were not accepted at all in the community. I mean, where, you know, didn't want Americans there.

[Assistant] Who had decided to place you in that village and the people in the other villages?

[User] Who assigned them?

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, Peace Corps couldn't simply say we're sending people into a village, was there?

[User] No, no. I think because this was a government building, I think that there was probably some pressure for them to take some Peace Corps volunteers and they agreed and they found all the other things. And so I think the same thing with some other villagers, they were, they might have been told, you're getting this and you're also getting volunteers with it. Maybe they didn't quite understand.

[Assistant] No, was AID involved with food supplies or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Who assigned them?

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, Peace Corps couldn't simply say we're sending people into a village, was there?

[User] No, no. I think because this was a government building, I think that there was probably some pressure for them to take some Peace Corps volunteers and they agreed and they found all the other things. And so I think the same thing with some other villagers, they were, they might have been told, you're getting this and you're also getting volunteers with it. Maybe they didn't quite understand.

[Assistant] No, was AID involved with food supplies or?

[User] I don't think.

[Assistant] It was CARE.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. I think because this was a government building, I think that there was probably some pressure for them to take some Peace Corps volunteers and they agreed and they found all the other things. And so I think the same thing with some other villagers, they were, they might have been told, you're getting this and you're also getting volunteers with it. Maybe they didn't quite understand.

[Assistant] No, was AID involved with food supplies or?

[User] I don't think.

[Assistant] It was CARE.

[User] CARE and UNICEF. I don't remember AID at all.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So after six months, you, you met in Hyderabad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] CARE and UNICEF. I don't remember AID at all.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So after six months, you, you met in Hyderabad?

[User] Oh, yes. We met in a nice, nice hotel. And it was like culture shock.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] We weren't dressed. What is this?

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. While you were in the field during the first six months, were you reporting back to a Peace Corps office at all or how did they know what you were doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. We met in a nice, nice hotel. And it was like culture shock.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] We weren't dressed. What is this?

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. While you were in the field during the first six months, were you reporting back to a Peace Corps office at all or how did they know what you were doing?

[User] Uh, one time the Peace Corps director did come out.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Do you remember who it was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We weren't dressed. What is this?

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. While you were in the field during the first six months, were you reporting back to a Peace Corps office at all or how did they know what you were doing?

[User] Uh, one time the Peace Corps director did come out.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. Do you remember who it was?

[User] We may have had to fill out some forms in order to get some money. My roommate did that. I don't remember having a lot of contact. I do remember Peace Corps doctors coming out once visiting our site and we had to get shots. And I remember the director coming to our village, which was a big thing.

[Assistant] And the director was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We may have had to fill out some forms in order to get some money. My roommate did that. I don't remember having a lot of contact. I do remember Peace Corps doctors coming out once visiting our site and we had to get shots. And I remember the director coming to our village, which was a big thing.

[Assistant] And the director was?

[User] Joyce Russell was the director in Hyderabad. She came and I, one of the things that she was, that I couldn't believe is, she had this very nice jeep that she was there and she had a driver. But her theory was, you know, she didn't feel that she necessarily had to lock it, which I guess we locked everything. Our basic was in everything not being stolen, but. And she, she, she always wore punjabis. I mean, you know, every day.

[Assistant] Punjabis are?

[User] Punjabis, you know, as opposed to saris. Right. That were made of cotton and, you know, with the white pants on the legs and more like a skirt.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Joyce Russell was the director in Hyderabad. She came and I, one of the things that she was, that I couldn't believe is, she had this very nice jeep that she was there and she had a driver. But her theory was, you know, she didn't feel that she necessarily had to lock it, which I guess we locked everything. Our basic was in everything not being stolen, but. And she, she, she always wore punjabis. I mean, you know, every day.

[Assistant] Punjabis are?

[User] Punjabis, you know, as opposed to saris. Right. That were made of cotton and, you know, with the white pants on the legs and more like a skirt.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[User] And then a scarf thrown around the top.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Um. So during the six months, once after the bout of dysentery, your health was okay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Punjabis, you know, as opposed to saris. Right. That were made of cotton and, you know, with the white pants on the legs and more like a skirt.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[User] And then a scarf thrown around the top.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Um. So during the six months, once after the bout of dysentery, your health was okay?

[User] Well, it took me a while. I know it took me at least a month.

[Assistant] So you must have lost a lot of weight and then you slowly began regaining?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it took me a while. I know it took me at least a month.

[Assistant] So you must have lost a lot of weight and then you slowly began regaining?

[User] Well, I lost the weight in the beginning. A lot of people that are, that I know who are volunteers either lost weight or gained weight. Didn't stay the same. I think my roommate may have gained weight. Actually, in the end I know she lost. But I had lost quite a bit.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I was, I didn't want to lose, keep losing that much. So then I just stabilized.

[Assistant] Yeah. During, during the, when you were first there, were you writing home a lot?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. I wrote, I wrote home a lot. We had, uh, the air mail.

[Assistant] Air letters.

[User] Air letters that we would write. Yes. And I would write home a lot. I know I had, I started even when I just, you know, when we stopped when in Holland started sending postcards home. I would send those. I always sent postcards home and I, I wrote a lot. Yes. I had a friend that I wrote from college.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And she didn't tell me afterwards till I came to visit her when she was in Washington. But she said it sounded like something out of National Geographic, which I liked. But yeah, I like to write to people.

[Assistant] Yeah. So let me. During your first year, were you able to become personal friends with any of, any Indian counterparts, any people from the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Air letters that we would write. Yes. And I would write home a lot. I know I had, I started even when I just, you know, when we stopped when in Holland started sending postcards home. I would send those. I always sent postcards home and I, I wrote a lot. Yes. I had a friend that I wrote from college.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And she didn't tell me afterwards till I came to visit her when she was in Washington. But she said it sounded like something out of National Geographic, which I liked. But yeah, I like to write to people.

[Assistant] Yeah. So let me. During your first year, were you able to become personal friends with any of, any Indian counterparts, any people from the village?

[User] I think my coworker I was the first a friend. Yes. We were.

[Assistant] What was her job? Same as yours?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They raised. This was basically a Hindu population. And so they raised pork, which they had learned in the States. And we would sometimes go there and buy pork.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] It was, we didn't, didn't buy beef. It wasn't really sold. And we would go there. We felt at the college, it was better to buy the pork. And also, even though one of our members was Jewish, we would go to the Christian services with the Christian missionaries because of the meals.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yes.

[User] Again, we were all losing weight, anything, I mean.

[Assistant] Now, in the village you were in, were there other non Indians, were there other Americans or the Europeans?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, we didn't, didn't buy beef. It wasn't really sold. And we would go there. We felt at the college, it was better to buy the pork. And also, even though one of our members was Jewish, we would go to the Christian services with the Christian missionaries because of the meals.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yes.

[User] Again, we were all losing weight, anything, I mean.

[Assistant] Now, in the village you were in, were there other non Indians, were there other Americans or the Europeans?

[User] No, no. There was nobody in our village.

[Assistant] And the missionaries you talk about, were they Indian missionaries?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. The missionaries were from Canada.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] They were Canadian. They had, they were in a village a couple of villages away. We would have to take busses to get there.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they weren't in our village, but we would see them maybe once a month. They would invite us. We would go into Tirupati, go to the church, or go and visit them. We, there were some Indians, a young couple that their father had some business or something at the, in the town. And they were, they lived in Tirupati, but he was a medical student. And his, I guess I think they might have gotten married. We went to their wedding. They were engaged at first. And they, a lot of the, some of the students would want to come and meet us and become friends and they would like to practice their English.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Do you recall, sometimes it's a difficult time being the first Thanksgiving and the first Christmas while you were, when you were in India?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was an old, it was definitely an old palace.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then there was. And the men went out hunting.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And they were supposed to get the food for us to have for Thanksgiving. We did not have a lot of food that Thanksgiving, but we went there and stayed in this old palace.

[Assistant] And these are the Peace Corps people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they were supposed to get the food for us to have for Thanksgiving. We did not have a lot of food that Thanksgiving, but we went there and stayed in this old palace.

[Assistant] And these are the Peace Corps people?

[User] These were the Peace Corps people, but the Indians were the ones that were taking them with them on hunting.

[Assistant] Okay, okay.

[User] And they didn't, you know

[Assistant] They weren't very successful.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] These were the Peace Corps people, but the Indians were the ones that were taking them with them on hunting.

[Assistant] Okay, okay.

[User] And they didn't, you know

[Assistant] They weren't very successful.

[User] India has a different concept than we do of time. You don't have to do this. We didn't have deadlines. It becomes dark. You don't have food yet.

[Assistant] Yeah. So it was a different Thanksgiving.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they didn't, you know

[Assistant] They weren't very successful.

[User] India has a different concept than we do of time. You don't have to do this. We didn't have deadlines. It becomes dark. You don't have food yet.

[Assistant] Yeah. So it was a different Thanksgiving.

[User] It was a different Thanksgiving, yes. And I remember that one Christmas, yes, walking on the white sand instead of white snow.

[Assistant] Right. During your first year, I mean, you didn't spend all your time on the job. You know, at some point you come home from work, you had weekends. How did you spend your?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, weekends, I don't know that we really distinguish much with weekends, you know, then the rest of the week. But you're right, what we thought was in the evening was ours.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] That the day is sort of when we were working, doing all that. On Sunday mornings I do remember in town, we would go into Tirupati and there would be English movies. Or sometimes English movies, but sometimes even Telugu movies, but for a Hindi movie. But we would always go to the cinema.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We went to a lot of cinemas. We, it helped with the language, doing that. And they would have popcorn. No butter, pepper on the popcorn, but it was popcorn. So we would, we would, we would go to movies. Yes. And going into Tirupati, going to eat in a restaurant or eating food off there and, of course, talking like to the missionaries or to some of the friends that we'd met, going to their house was something that we did.

[Assistant] So the restaurants were, would serve good food.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That the day is sort of when we were working, doing all that. On Sunday mornings I do remember in town, we would go into Tirupati and there would be English movies. Or sometimes English movies, but sometimes even Telugu movies, but for a Hindi movie. But we would always go to the cinema.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We went to a lot of cinemas. We, it helped with the language, doing that. And they would have popcorn. No butter, pepper on the popcorn, but it was popcorn. So we would, we would, we would go to movies. Yes. And going into Tirupati, going to eat in a restaurant or eating food off there and, of course, talking like to the missionaries or to some of the friends that we'd met, going to their house was something that we did.

[Assistant] So the restaurants were, would serve good food.

[User] I mean, the ones in Tripathi were serving pretty good food. It was Indian food and there were separate restaurants that were. Most of the best restaurants were vegetarian because the temple, the Hindus were very, the good vegetarian foods with the different vegetables and the rice was always good. You could go in the, the ones that served meat were not as nice, the restaurants. They would serve meat and just chapati but you, that's all you would get, or maybe whatever there. So most, I didn't much go into restaurants that served meat.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So coming on to the end of the first year, usually this you're entitled to some leave time, some kind of break, and sometimes a time of reflecting about, well, after a year, what have I accomplished? And as I look to my second year, what, what do I want to do before I go home? Do you remember that time and what you did on vacation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, and bought some. I was supposed to go with other friends and something happened that we didn't connect. It didn't work out. So I ended up by myself. But I, I met other Peace Corps volunteers who were traveling, you know, and so I'd be with these other friends at this place and someone else at this place or anything doing that. But yes, I went to Kashmir, went to Delhi, went to the Taj Mahal, went to Calcutta. Which Calcutta was really an eye opener, was quite different because it was, I mean, there were just so many people were in Calcutta and there was so much poverty and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, Benares and Calcutta was really, you know, it was just, there were, there are fewer people in the south.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And there, you know, the pace maybe was a little slower and they were shorter. It just looked like, I mean, Calcutta was almost like, ooh, you were afraid to walk around, to do anything. But then and then just coming back.

[Assistant] And during your time, your travels, and in your time in the village, did you have any problems of thievery or, you know, where you felt endangered or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, Benares and Calcutta was really, you know, it was just, there were, there are fewer people in the south.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And there, you know, the pace maybe was a little slower and they were shorter. It just looked like, I mean, Calcutta was almost like, ooh, you were afraid to walk around, to do anything. But then and then just coming back.

[Assistant] And during your time, your travels, and in your time in the village, did you have any problems of thievery or, you know, where you felt endangered or?

[User] Well, some things were lost. I guess the only time. Well, Indians will even tell you now, if you can go, you're going to play with them or do anything. It's like, so the last bus leaving from Tirupati going to Chandigarh, everybody that wanted to get on couldn't go on it. Well, when we were still new, just there, we always got out of the bus. But after we'd been there for a while, forget it. They weren't nice to us.

[Assistant] No special treatment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, some things were lost. I guess the only time. Well, Indians will even tell you now, if you can go, you're going to play with them or do anything. It's like, so the last bus leaving from Tirupati going to Chandigarh, everybody that wanted to get on couldn't go on it. Well, when we were still new, just there, we always got out of the bus. But after we'd been there for a while, forget it. They weren't nice to us.

[Assistant] No special treatment.

[User] We had to walk seven miles back home.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But the time that I guess I was most afraid, and I was with some other volunteers, I was just supporting them. But there were just crowds of people that were just pushing and shoving in some of the festivals that we went to, like in Bangalore. And so there, yeah. And walking the streets at night, we did sort of feel danger, but also felt somewhat secure just because you were bigger than most of the other people.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Did you encounter people who expressed anti- American feelings or said, what are you doing here and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had to walk seven miles back home.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But the time that I guess I was most afraid, and I was with some other volunteers, I was just supporting them. But there were just crowds of people that were just pushing and shoving in some of the festivals that we went to, like in Bangalore. And so there, yeah. And walking the streets at night, we did sort of feel danger, but also felt somewhat secure just because you were bigger than most of the other people.

[Assistant] Right. Right. Did you encounter people who expressed anti- American feelings or said, what are you doing here and?

[User] No, there were other people that had that. We didn't have as much anti-American feelings where we were in the community. Talking about being afraid. I guess the only thing is just being young and female. But anyway, my roommate and I, once there was this man who was, uh, I forget his title. But anyway, he was the government liaison over all of our area. He had some high powered anything and he. [tape break]

[Assistant] Talking about the time you and your roommate were invited by this gentleman?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was, more than anything else, more than anything verbal.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Or, uh, you know, I never, nobody expressed any anti-American or really discussed anything. But we did see it much more in the north. And that's, you know, it was, when I was there, it was before Bangladesh was ever formed.

[Assistant] Ah, okay.

[User] And you had East Pakistan and West Pakistan and everything. So there was a lot more people like in the south that you had and they accepted, that's where Christianity was still strong. They accepted that and.

[Assistant] In the south?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you had East Pakistan and West Pakistan and everything. So there was a lot more people like in the south that you had and they accepted, that's where Christianity was still strong. They accepted that and.

[Assistant] In the south?

[User] Yes. And if you were converted or not converted, you know, it was okay.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you had the Hindus, you know, the religion was very strong. And in our village we also had Muslims and we went to one of their ceremonies too.

[Assistant] Yeah. So one, one of the reasons some people join Peace Corps, or one of the things about Peace Corps service, is a chance to get to know another culture and to get to know another culture means a lot of different things. And do you recall having a sense that you were learning about India or becoming part of it or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And if you were converted or not converted, you know, it was okay.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you had the Hindus, you know, the religion was very strong. And in our village we also had Muslims and we went to one of their ceremonies too.

[Assistant] Yeah. So one, one of the reasons some people join Peace Corps, or one of the things about Peace Corps service, is a chance to get to know another culture and to get to know another culture means a lot of different things. And do you recall having a sense that you were learning about India or becoming part of it or?

[User] Well, yes. Well, I think, I think we ended up, you know, we had a temple.

[Assistant] You keep saying we, is it you and your roommate for the most part?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you had the Hindus, you know, the religion was very strong. And in our village we also had Muslims and we went to one of their ceremonies too.

[Assistant] Yeah. So one, one of the reasons some people join Peace Corps, or one of the things about Peace Corps service, is a chance to get to know another culture and to get to know another culture means a lot of different things. And do you recall having a sense that you were learning about India or becoming part of it or?

[User] Well, yes. Well, I think, I think we ended up, you know, we had a temple.

[Assistant] You keep saying we, is it you and your roommate for the most part?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You pretty much operated together.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Wendy Carter and I. Yeah, we would. And I guess Steve and there were a couple of, uh, some of the other. We'd usually. I guess we did things. I don't usually remember going just by myself, even into town. I'd either go with Wendy or with Steve, and I forget the name of the other guy that lived there. So someone, we would usually go biking or go to something together. Maybe the three of us, or with other people that lived there. Yes. I mean, it wasn't many individual things, but even to talk to. But at the end, we lived almost on the street. At the end of our street was the temple.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And we would go to that and really felt, you know, and the people, you know, that brought us the milk every day. And we had our own. They had given us the yogurt culture, we had our yogurt every day. And we felt good in developing, even becoming. And we were eating rice and the yogurt and, you know, the vegetarian meal, this would be coming in, doing that. The other thing we did is we would chew paan after our meals, which included betel nut, which of course can turn your teeth red.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I mean, I even brought some betel nut home with me. I mean, you become sort of addicted to it but.

[Assistant] Sometimes people are able to make a friend who becomes kind of an informant or a mentor about the other culture. And so will explain what a burial or a birth or a marriage or. Did you have, were you able to get someone who could explain what was going on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I mean, I even brought some betel nut home with me. I mean, you become sort of addicted to it but.

[Assistant] Sometimes people are able to make a friend who becomes kind of an informant or a mentor about the other culture. And so will explain what a burial or a birth or a marriage or. Did you have, were you able to get someone who could explain what was going on?

[User] Yes, I think, I think my coworker, she would do that. She, she had, she was Indian and she was a Christian. And she would but she still had family that were Hindus and would tell about the custom and everything. And or when we would go with some of the women's clubs, either she would try to explain or sometimes the other people would try to explain.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so and some of the other, uh, the same, we would meet with the same people in the villages, yes. And they would always like to, I mean, they would be. They wanted us to learn about their culture and they would be sharing their food or sharing this or giving us experience and teaching us. Yes.

[Assistant] So most of your traveling around, it was you and Wendy who went to places?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I think, I think my coworker, she would do that. She, she had, she was Indian and she was a Christian. And she would but she still had family that were Hindus and would tell about the custom and everything. And or when we would go with some of the women's clubs, either she would try to explain or sometimes the other people would try to explain.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so and some of the other, uh, the same, we would meet with the same people in the villages, yes. And they would always like to, I mean, they would be. They wanted us to learn about their culture and they would be sharing their food or sharing this or giving us experience and teaching us. Yes.

[Assistant] So most of your traveling around, it was you and Wendy who went to places?

[User] Yes, either, yes, with Wendy, sometimes with Steve or.

[Assistant] Let's now talk about going into the second year. In effect, your project was to create these, the schools, nursery schools. Did you project some kind of goal or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so and some of the other, uh, the same, we would meet with the same people in the villages, yes. And they would always like to, I mean, they would be. They wanted us to learn about their culture and they would be sharing their food or sharing this or giving us experience and teaching us. Yes.

[Assistant] So most of your traveling around, it was you and Wendy who went to places?

[User] Yes, either, yes, with Wendy, sometimes with Steve or.

[Assistant] Let's now talk about going into the second year. In effect, your project was to create these, the schools, nursery schools. Did you project some kind of goal or?

[User] Well, what my goal would have been to have actually got a new permanent building and got the school started.

[Assistant] The one school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, what my goal would have been to have actually got a new permanent building and got the school started.

[Assistant] The one school?

[User] That was just my goal. Yes. If you could just get that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So before I left, I never did see the school completed, but we had made all the arrangements that.

[Assistant] Well, what did you do to make the school happen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was just my goal. Yes. If you could just get that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So before I left, I never did see the school completed, but we had made all the arrangements that.

[Assistant] Well, what did you do to make the school happen?

[User] You know, working with the CARE people, then we would do that, and then working with the government, Indian government, villages there. And it was on that property that the school was going to be built. So I felt good that everything was coming together and doing that.

[Assistant] Right. And were you working with people in the community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So before I left, I never did see the school completed, but we had made all the arrangements that.

[Assistant] Well, what did you do to make the school happen?

[User] You know, working with the CARE people, then we would do that, and then working with the government, Indian government, villages there. And it was on that property that the school was going to be built. So I felt good that everything was coming together and doing that.

[Assistant] Right. And were you working with people in the community?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Who in the community would you work with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, working with the CARE people, then we would do that, and then working with the government, Indian government, villages there. And it was on that property that the school was going to be built. So I felt good that everything was coming together and doing that.

[Assistant] Right. And were you working with people in the community?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Who in the community would you work with?

[User] It was basically the community that we worked with were these government workers.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In that they had this little government compound and that's where the school was going to be.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So it was the government workers. And they, of course, it was easier to work with them because that was their job, to work with us.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And also they spoke some English. And they had to do all that. So yeah, we worked with them.

[Assistant] So as you're coming to the end of your tour. What was your sense of what you had accomplished? Were you satisfied, dissatisfied? I mean, you had just spent 16 months or more of your life. Did you have any sense of what it was about or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was the government workers. And they, of course, it was easier to work with them because that was their job, to work with us.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And also they spoke some English. And they had to do all that. So yeah, we worked with them.

[Assistant] So as you're coming to the end of your tour. What was your sense of what you had accomplished? Were you satisfied, dissatisfied? I mean, you had just spent 16 months or more of your life. Did you have any sense of what it was about or?

[User] Well, I think so. I had, I felt good about what I had done, everything. I did, uh, my time would have been up I guess in June, at the end of July. I spent one month afterwards in helping Peace Corps staff in Bangalore. And we, I went around with another Peace Corps staff person, and they were trying to find places where female volunteers could come, because at that time they were then getting more female volunteers. Or more females who were volunteering and they were trying to get places that were situated for them.

[Assistant] So someone on Peace Corps staff must have considered you a very competent volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And also they spoke some English. And they had to do all that. So yeah, we worked with them.

[Assistant] So as you're coming to the end of your tour. What was your sense of what you had accomplished? Were you satisfied, dissatisfied? I mean, you had just spent 16 months or more of your life. Did you have any sense of what it was about or?

[User] Well, I think so. I had, I felt good about what I had done, everything. I did, uh, my time would have been up I guess in June, at the end of July. I spent one month afterwards in helping Peace Corps staff in Bangalore. And we, I went around with another Peace Corps staff person, and they were trying to find places where female volunteers could come, because at that time they were then getting more female volunteers. Or more females who were volunteering and they were trying to get places that were situated for them.

[Assistant] So someone on Peace Corps staff must have considered you a very competent volunteer?

[User] Yes, I could have stayed longer, but I didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so at the end of your tour, you spent the extra month helping Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think so. I had, I felt good about what I had done, everything. I did, uh, my time would have been up I guess in June, at the end of July. I spent one month afterwards in helping Peace Corps staff in Bangalore. And we, I went around with another Peace Corps staff person, and they were trying to find places where female volunteers could come, because at that time they were then getting more female volunteers. Or more females who were volunteering and they were trying to get places that were situated for them.

[Assistant] So someone on Peace Corps staff must have considered you a very competent volunteer?

[User] Yes, I could have stayed longer, but I didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so at the end of your tour, you spent the extra month helping Peace Corps?

[User] Yes, I got paid for that.

[Assistant] But you were content to leave the village and feel that, with the feeling that you had accomplished something or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I could have stayed longer, but I didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so at the end of your tour, you spent the extra month helping Peace Corps?

[User] Yes, I got paid for that.

[Assistant] But you were content to leave the village and feel that, with the feeling that you had accomplished something or?

[User] I left feeling that I had accomplished something. Yes. One, because I really felt the staff, the Indian staff that we worked with in the government compound, understood what we were doing and were doing good job themselves. And so we were all working together in doing, you know, doing that with a purpose. And so we didn't feel like they were fighting them, but still didn't feel like I needed to be there. I still felt like it was their job. It was their country.

[Assistant] Yeah. During the second year, had additional volunteers come to the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I left feeling that I had accomplished something. Yes. One, because I really felt the staff, the Indian staff that we worked with in the government compound, understood what we were doing and were doing good job themselves. And so we were all working together in doing, you know, doing that with a purpose. And so we didn't feel like they were fighting them, but still didn't feel like I needed to be there. I still felt like it was their job. It was their country.

[Assistant] Yeah. During the second year, had additional volunteers come to the village?

[User] Not in our village. Two additional village volunteers came to Tirupati. And before that, no volunteers had been in Tirupati, even though that was a bigger town.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, uh, we had a few problems with them. They were not interested in really working. They, they were seeing how much they could learn about India or anything, but they were two self-proclaimed people that were avoiding the draft.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, leaving. As you were leaving, were there plans to be, for you to be replaced? Were other volunteers going to come to the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not in our village. Two additional village volunteers came to Tirupati. And before that, no volunteers had been in Tirupati, even though that was a bigger town.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, uh, we had a few problems with them. They were not interested in really working. They, they were seeing how much they could learn about India or anything, but they were two self-proclaimed people that were avoiding the draft.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, leaving. As you were leaving, were there plans to be, for you to be replaced? Were other volunteers going to come to the village?

[User] No, no other villagers were coming to the village. We, no. We were supposed to work with the community and doing that and the other volunteers were in Tirupati working. So that was in our immediate vicinity, but they were not doing the same project we were doing.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. So as of the coming to the end of your Peace Corps service, what were your plans at that point? What did you feel you were going to do next?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, we had a few problems with them. They were not interested in really working. They, they were seeing how much they could learn about India or anything, but they were two self-proclaimed people that were avoiding the draft.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, leaving. As you were leaving, were there plans to be, for you to be replaced? Were other volunteers going to come to the village?

[User] No, no other villagers were coming to the village. We, no. We were supposed to work with the community and doing that and the other volunteers were in Tirupati working. So that was in our immediate vicinity, but they were not doing the same project we were doing.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. So as of the coming to the end of your Peace Corps service, what were your plans at that point? What did you feel you were going to do next?

[User] Well, I don't know. I didn't know, I guess, what I thought I was going to do next. But I thought it was time to go back to the States and see, you know, pursue something. Otherwise, I might have stayed longer working at Peace Corps in India, which might have been a good idea. It was an option for me. But at that time I didn't.

[Assistant] Well, I mean, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no other villagers were coming to the village. We, no. We were supposed to work with the community and doing that and the other volunteers were in Tirupati working. So that was in our immediate vicinity, but they were not doing the same project we were doing.

[Assistant] Mm hmm. So as of the coming to the end of your Peace Corps service, what were your plans at that point? What did you feel you were going to do next?

[User] Well, I don't know. I didn't know, I guess, what I thought I was going to do next. But I thought it was time to go back to the States and see, you know, pursue something. Otherwise, I might have stayed longer working at Peace Corps in India, which might have been a good idea. It was an option for me. But at that time I didn't.

[Assistant] Well, I mean, yeah.

[User] Not something I wanted to do.

[Assistant] And if you can think in terms of '68 when you're coming back. Uh. What do you feel, what do you think was the impact of being in the Peace Corps had had on you as of that moment? That may have, may be different later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I don't know. I didn't know, I guess, what I thought I was going to do next. But I thought it was time to go back to the States and see, you know, pursue something. Otherwise, I might have stayed longer working at Peace Corps in India, which might have been a good idea. It was an option for me. But at that time I didn't.

[Assistant] Well, I mean, yeah.

[User] Not something I wanted to do.

[Assistant] And if you can think in terms of '68 when you're coming back. Uh. What do you feel, what do you think was the impact of being in the Peace Corps had had on you as of that moment? That may have, may be different later.

[User] Well, I think, I think what the Peace Corps really opened my eyes just to possibilities maybe that I could do, or even just opened my eyes to what more than what I had thought the United States was, you know, and then helping other. I mean, I had, before I had gone to the Peace Corps, one of the things I had thought about was, you know, maybe going just in a country, not really being a missionary, but sort of maybe teaching in another country. And I really felt like I had done some good, you know, in India. But I also felt that I certainly had learned a lot in what I could do and what I could accomplish. I almost felt like I had spent two years in graduate school and learned so much.

[Assistant] And they paid you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not something I wanted to do.

[Assistant] And if you can think in terms of '68 when you're coming back. Uh. What do you feel, what do you think was the impact of being in the Peace Corps had had on you as of that moment? That may have, may be different later.

[User] Well, I think, I think what the Peace Corps really opened my eyes just to possibilities maybe that I could do, or even just opened my eyes to what more than what I had thought the United States was, you know, and then helping other. I mean, I had, before I had gone to the Peace Corps, one of the things I had thought about was, you know, maybe going just in a country, not really being a missionary, but sort of maybe teaching in another country. And I really felt like I had done some good, you know, in India. But I also felt that I certainly had learned a lot in what I could do and what I could accomplish. I almost felt like I had spent two years in graduate school and learned so much.

[Assistant] And they paid you.

[User] Not much.

[Assistant] No. Did you come straight home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then I went to, I think it was Austria, Vienna.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] For a week. And I went to Berlin for a week. I went to Athens, I went to Paris and London and home.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But so I spent a week in these different places and that's what I had. I mean, that's the way I came home.

[Assistant] And talk about your homecoming and how you reacted to being back and how people dealt with you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I didn't spend a whole lot of time home, but, uh, and the one, I did then go to Saint Paul, Minneapolis. I stayed with some friends and then I got a job just, it was over Christmas time, then just working in a department store. But one of my college friends was teaching and I went to her class and did give a talk.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] On the Peace Corps. And one of the things is because the same picture that had been used in The New York Times was picked up in Read magazine, which is a little.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] For children that you have to read. And so they liked it because I came and they could see that was my picture and I got to speak to them.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you were a minor celebrity.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, that. So I spoke there. But otherwise, I think my parents were just saying, when is she getting a job or doing all that? But I, when I got, I finally got back to the States and then decided, hey, I kind of liked it overseas. Why is this rush to come back, you know, and do anything? And then I went back to Hamline to the placement service there, and saw what was available. And one of the openings there was to go to, uh, to work with the Red Cross overseas in the Red Cross recreation program. You could go to Vietnam or Korea. And so I responded to that. And over Thanksgiving, I went to Saint Louis for an interview. And I had also applied for the Teacher Corps.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so I was accepted in Teacher Corps at University of Wisconsin at Madison, at Milwaukee.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Madison, Milwaukee, one of the two. And, uh, and I was accepted with the Red Cross to go to Vietnam. So that was a big decision. But then I just decided, yes, I would go with the Red Cross to Vietnam instead of going into Teacher Corps.

[Assistant] Was there any conviction, a special conviction about the idea of going to Vietnam?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I was accepted in Teacher Corps at University of Wisconsin at Madison, at Milwaukee.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Madison, Milwaukee, one of the two. And, uh, and I was accepted with the Red Cross to go to Vietnam. So that was a big decision. But then I just decided, yes, I would go with the Red Cross to Vietnam instead of going into Teacher Corps.

[Assistant] Was there any conviction, a special conviction about the idea of going to Vietnam?

[User] No, I think the most, the biggest thing about going to Vietnam was, one, it was warm. I liked being in a warm country. It was kind of neat, being from Minnesota. And the other thing is, at that time, in '68 there was just, when I had been a Peace Corps volunteer, just talking then with other volunteers and everything. We just spent a lot of time talking about India and with the Indians and about there and what is America doing in Vietnam? And I just thought I would like to go and see what, see for myself.

[Assistant] Yeah, great. And you had some confidence in going to another country because you had been in the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Madison, Milwaukee, one of the two. And, uh, and I was accepted with the Red Cross to go to Vietnam. So that was a big decision. But then I just decided, yes, I would go with the Red Cross to Vietnam instead of going into Teacher Corps.

[Assistant] Was there any conviction, a special conviction about the idea of going to Vietnam?

[User] No, I think the most, the biggest thing about going to Vietnam was, one, it was warm. I liked being in a warm country. It was kind of neat, being from Minnesota. And the other thing is, at that time, in '68 there was just, when I had been a Peace Corps volunteer, just talking then with other volunteers and everything. We just spent a lot of time talking about India and with the Indians and about there and what is America doing in Vietnam? And I just thought I would like to go and see what, see for myself.

[Assistant] Yeah, great. And you had some confidence in going to another country because you had been in the Peace Corps.

[User] Right. Oh, yes. Right. I didn't, I had no qualms about that. And I just, I mean, at that time, you still, in order to do the Red Cross recreation program, you had to be between ages of 22 to 24, college graduate, never been married. And I was just 24. I was ready. I had to go.

[Assistant] Another thing is some people are able to stay in touch with the, some of the people they worked with or the village they worked with and through the years. Have you been able to maintain any contact?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Oh, yes. Right. I didn't, I had no qualms about that. And I just, I mean, at that time, you still, in order to do the Red Cross recreation program, you had to be between ages of 22 to 24, college graduate, never been married. And I was just 24. I was ready. I had to go.

[Assistant] Another thing is some people are able to stay in touch with the, some of the people they worked with or the village they worked with and through the years. Have you been able to maintain any contact?

[User] Yes. I mean, I corresponded with the man we had worked with in another village for a long time and then he ended up dying.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] He was fairly young, but his daughter then started corresponding with me. So in 1989, at Christmas time, when I went back to India and I was her guest and so she, at her 25th birthday. I mean, I was there when I was 24. At her 25th birthday party, I was there and I, she showed me pictures. I was there at her first birthday party.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I mean, I corresponded with the man we had worked with in another village for a long time and then he ended up dying.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] He was fairly young, but his daughter then started corresponding with me. So in 1989, at Christmas time, when I went back to India and I was her guest and so she, at her 25th birthday. I mean, I was there when I was 24. At her 25th birthday party, I was there and I, she showed me pictures. I was there at her first birthday party.

[Assistant] Uh huh, yeah.

[User] And so she showed me around Madras, these other relatives that were there, we went back to the village with her, so that was really nice. And then a couple of years ago, I received some candles that I still have here and I, they were given to me by, the one, my coworker in India. And she said she bought those for me right before I left, but somehow or she couldn't give them to me and she never had my address before that. Or somehow they got mixed up or something and it was like out of the blue. I mean, just last year. It was just something. Yeah. So I do, and I send Christmas cards just a couple now to my, the one work teacher that was in there and she also went back to village when I went to Bangalore, when I went there in '89, Christmas time, came back in '90.

[Assistant] Yeah. And do you recall your reaction in going back to the village where you had worked? I mean, this is, what, almost 20 years later?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so she showed me around Madras, these other relatives that were there, we went back to the village with her, so that was really nice. And then a couple of years ago, I received some candles that I still have here and I, they were given to me by, the one, my coworker in India. And she said she bought those for me right before I left, but somehow or she couldn't give them to me and she never had my address before that. Or somehow they got mixed up or something and it was like out of the blue. I mean, just last year. It was just something. Yeah. So I do, and I send Christmas cards just a couple now to my, the one work teacher that was in there and she also went back to village when I went to Bangalore, when I went there in '89, Christmas time, came back in '90.

[Assistant] Yeah. And do you recall your reaction in going back to the village where you had worked? I mean, this is, what, almost 20 years later?

[User] Oh, it was so different. I went to a different village, which we ended up going, walking to. The one that we did with. There were televisions there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] There were sinks there.

[Assistant] Yeah. Did you have any sense that what you had done had had some impact on the development of the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My roommate was named Wendy Cutter. And they always said, Wendy Cutter, Wendy Cutter, Wendy Cutter. And when I went back, they still remembered Wendy Cutter. But nobody knew, you know, even my name, maybe much less Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Right. Right.

[User] I do, I did go to this one teacher that I went and kept in touch with. I did go with her class. She was still at the same school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But she was in school before we came. Yeah.

[Assistant] And, um. Uh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But she was in school before we came. Yeah.

[Assistant] And, um. Uh.

[User] Also the population of India had just doubled.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was just so crowded.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. When did, when did Peace Corps come out of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Also the population of India had just doubled.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was just so crowded.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. When did, when did Peace Corps come out of?

[User] Peace Corps left India, I think it was in '72.

[Assistant] Okay. So it wasn't too long after you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] They were, right. We were there in '66, '68. Right. There was, there were almost too many volunteers there. 1,500. And they just flooded the country. Most good, maybe some not so good. But I think India also has become much less a third world country.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] You know, it was a second world country. I mean, think of all the Indians that are coming here, well-educated engineers, you know, living here. They just, there was no need for it. That's why we left India.

[Assistant] But at the end of the second two years, was there a termination conference where your group came back together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were, right. We were there in '66, '68. Right. There was, there were almost too many volunteers there. 1,500. And they just flooded the country. Most good, maybe some not so good. But I think India also has become much less a third world country.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] You know, it was a second world country. I mean, think of all the Indians that are coming here, well-educated engineers, you know, living here. They just, there was no need for it. That's why we left India.

[Assistant] But at the end of the second two years, was there a termination conference where your group came back together?

[User] Yes, we had a termination conference, yes.

[Assistant] Do you recall it at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we had a termination conference, yes.

[Assistant] Do you recall it at all?

[User] Well, I remember we all got together in Hyderabad and maybe it was more social than anything. The biggest thing I remember is that I talked to the Peace Corps physician and had my ears pierced.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Right before I left India. And he just thought, he said, oh, they'd get dirty. You don't want to do this. I said, I don't have anything else to do, I'll keep my ears clean. So but I had bought some earrings, you know, I knew there were some nice gold earrings in India I wanted to buy, and they all had to have with pierced ears.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you finally.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I remember we all got together in Hyderabad and maybe it was more social than anything. The biggest thing I remember is that I talked to the Peace Corps physician and had my ears pierced.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Right before I left India. And he just thought, he said, oh, they'd get dirty. You don't want to do this. I said, I don't have anything else to do, I'll keep my ears clean. So but I had bought some earrings, you know, I knew there were some nice gold earrings in India I wanted to buy, and they all had to have with pierced ears.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you finally.

[User] So I got that.

[Assistant] With the Peace Corps doctor. Yeah. Uh, anything else you want to mention about your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, no, I. I did work, like I said, for one, you know, just one extra month in Bangalore. I maybe could have stayed longer, maybe would have wished to. I, when I did come back after Vietnam, I came back and I worked for VISTA recruitment and then for Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] Peace Corps and VISTA recruiting. So I recruited around in the Southeast and I was certainly very up about my experience and really felt like, you know, it was easy to talk to people and doing that. One of the big things was we had a big Peter Max poster. Do you remember that?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] But Peter Max actually came to Baltimore Inner Harbor, and I have his autograph. He is still going strong.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. That's great.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. The others—GT-3, GT-4—were also like 40 miles away. So we knew it was a problem. I told my supervisor. I said, “I put their numbers in and I get where it hits. I’ve got the right logic in there.” That’s why on GT-8 they took my numbers, because [our ACR team] knew from all the postflights that they were right.

[Assistant] Did that continue after that?

[User] No. They fixed the RTCC.

[Assistant] Fixed theirs.

[User] Yes. They finally went back and fixed [the Gemini entry program]. I guess at some point they didn’t want to think that they were wrong, but that was a problem that they had. The problem was, like I said, that it was months [I was told] before a flight that they would have to shut everything down and just stay where they were. That was the big problem.

[Assistant] You had the advantage of being able to work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. They fixed the RTCC.

[Assistant] Fixed theirs.

[User] Yes. They finally went back and fixed [the Gemini entry program]. I guess at some point they didn’t want to think that they were wrong, but that was a problem that they had. The problem was, like I said, that it was months [I was told] before a flight that they would have to shut everything down and just stay where they were. That was the big problem.

[Assistant] You had the advantage of being able to work.

[User] Oh yes. All of us. The rendezvous guys and everything. Eventually the rendezvous program got [checked out in] the RTCC [I was told]. Then the rendezvous was done from the RTCC, then we checked.

[Assistant] Was it a small group that worked?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. They finally went back and fixed [the Gemini entry program]. I guess at some point they didn’t want to think that they were wrong, but that was a problem that they had. The problem was, like I said, that it was months [I was told] before a flight that they would have to shut everything down and just stay where they were. That was the big problem.

[Assistant] You had the advantage of being able to work.

[User] Oh yes. All of us. The rendezvous guys and everything. Eventually the rendezvous program got [checked out in] the RTCC [I was told]. Then the rendezvous was done from the RTCC, then we checked.

[Assistant] Was it a small group that worked?

[User] We had three shifts. For each one I trained a couple of guys to run my program. I eventually became an ACR chief also, then I couldn’t run it, but I had people running the program. There were some contractors that would come in because they had other special functions.\n\n I had a landmark star sighting program that I developed with the help of a contractor. I gave the requirements. I called it AGOP, which is Apollo Generalized Optical Pointing. We computed pointing programs for telescopes around the world. Well, actually there were just four that I remember. One was Jodrell [Bank Observatory] in [Lower Withington, Cheshire, England]. There was one in California and one in Denver [Colorado], then our telescope that we had here at NASA. So I think I remember it was four.\n\n All of those came from my program; all the pointing. In fact sometimes we’d get out when we had time. We’d go to our telescope here and look at the spacecraft on the way to the Moon. It was rotating. We could see where the Sun would flash. Every time it went by the Sun hit it and then it would flash. So we knew it was rotating. They call that the barbecue mode. [The rotation allowed the vehicle’s outside surface to maintain the same temperature throughout.]

[Assistant] Mode. What an interesting insight, you developed the program to be able to go do that [provide pointing angles].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then we finally got the four-function calculators. We also had a different calculator at the beginning. It was electromechanical. It would go round and round and round and it would go ka-chunk ka-chunk ka-chunk. You’d get one number at a time come out. I didn’t trust those. Didn’t trust it. Anything mechanical I didn’t trust. I trusted my slide rule better than one of those mechanical calculators, but the thing about it is when I was working with the Texas Highway Department that’s what we used.\n\n I have a story on that. The engineer I was working with, he went on vacation, and his supervisor came over when he was gone. He said, “Fix this problem that we got.” So I redid all his design on one of the highways, which was on Highway 281, the portion down there in Hidalgo County. I redid the whole thing. When he came back he said, “Oh. Thank you.” [He was an aeronautical engineer, not a civil engineer.]

[Assistant] Maybe we should have kept you in the Highway Department. They could use you now.

[User] I was only like a one- or two-year student at Pan American College, but I fixed it all up. The other highway I worked on was the one that goes to Padre Island, Highway 100. I always remember that.

[Assistant] You made lots of people happy going there, didn’t you?

[User] Yes. What we did, we moved the highway a little off to make it bigger. We did surveying, so I was real happy about that. I learned a lot in the surveying. I learned how to design the highways. I also know that when they say going around a curve [for example] you can go only 50 miles an hour, we built a pad like 15 miles on that. So when I go around the [curve], it says you can only go [a certain speed], I know you got a 15-mile pad.

[Assistant] You might not want to share that secret with everybody. Speaking of design, you mentioned earlier that you designed trajectories.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was only like a one- or two-year student at Pan American College, but I fixed it all up. The other highway I worked on was the one that goes to Padre Island, Highway 100. I always remember that.

[Assistant] You made lots of people happy going there, didn’t you?

[User] Yes. What we did, we moved the highway a little off to make it bigger. We did surveying, so I was real happy about that. I learned a lot in the surveying. I learned how to design the highways. I also know that when they say going around a curve [for example] you can go only 50 miles an hour, we built a pad like 15 miles on that. So when I go around the [curve], it says you can only go [a certain speed], I know you got a 15-mile pad.

[Assistant] You might not want to share that secret with everybody. Speaking of design, you mentioned earlier that you designed trajectories.

[User] Yes, the prelaunch trajectories [for our abort studies and entry studies].

[Assistant] Then you were talking also about the tools. Can you give us an idea of the evolution of the technology and how that affected the different areas that you worked in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know. I don’t know.

[Assistant] I just was curious, talking about NORAD.

[User] All I know is when I came to work for NASA they gave me a secret clearance, but I don’t know whether they would have to redo my top secret. I also have a funny story on that. When they were checking me, when I was in the Army, to get my clearance, I had a good friend that had a welding shop down in The Valley. Well, his father had the welding shop, and he was working there. He had the helmet for welding, and he had a swastika on there. He said when they came to check, “I had the swastika [helmet] on.” That’s when I got my clearance.

[Assistant] In spite of your friends.

[User] He and I built a semirobot. We could make his head move and his arms and his hands. We had like a flipper thing [for the “hands”]. We had it at a science show when we were at Pan American College. I got an offer from some company [after that]. They were doing robotics. I turned them down too.\n\n We had our science show in the basketball court of the field house. We hid up in the scoreboard area [where we had our controls]. We had a robot, and all the kids would come and we had voice connection. We could hear them and we could answer their questions through a speaker in his chest. We used “cellsyns” to move the head, arms, and hands. [They were electrical motors that were synchronized to duplicate movements in our controls.]

[Assistant] There’re probably kids today talking about, “We had this robot, it was talking to us.” They still don’t know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All I know is when I came to work for NASA they gave me a secret clearance, but I don’t know whether they would have to redo my top secret. I also have a funny story on that. When they were checking me, when I was in the Army, to get my clearance, I had a good friend that had a welding shop down in The Valley. Well, his father had the welding shop, and he was working there. He had the helmet for welding, and he had a swastika on there. He said when they came to check, “I had the swastika [helmet] on.” That’s when I got my clearance.

[Assistant] In spite of your friends.

[User] He and I built a semirobot. We could make his head move and his arms and his hands. We had like a flipper thing [for the “hands”]. We had it at a science show when we were at Pan American College. I got an offer from some company [after that]. They were doing robotics. I turned them down too.\n\n We had our science show in the basketball court of the field house. We hid up in the scoreboard area [where we had our controls]. We had a robot, and all the kids would come and we had voice connection. We could hear them and we could answer their questions through a speaker in his chest. We used “cellsyns” to move the head, arms, and hands. [They were electrical motors that were synchronized to duplicate movements in our controls.]

[Assistant] There’re probably kids today talking about, “We had this robot, it was talking to us.” They still don’t know.

[User] Yes. I designed it and my friend built it because he was a welder. [I did help him build it when I had time.]

[Assistant] He could make it work. That’s a good combination.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He and I built a semirobot. We could make his head move and his arms and his hands. We had like a flipper thing [for the “hands”]. We had it at a science show when we were at Pan American College. I got an offer from some company [after that]. They were doing robotics. I turned them down too.\n\n We had our science show in the basketball court of the field house. We hid up in the scoreboard area [where we had our controls]. We had a robot, and all the kids would come and we had voice connection. We could hear them and we could answer their questions through a speaker in his chest. We used “cellsyns” to move the head, arms, and hands. [They were electrical motors that were synchronized to duplicate movements in our controls.]

[Assistant] There’re probably kids today talking about, “We had this robot, it was talking to us.” They still don’t know.

[User] Yes. I designed it and my friend built it because he was a welder. [I did help him build it when I had time.]

[Assistant] He could make it work. That’s a good combination.

[User] Yes, but he wound up getting in all the pictures [except one]. He got in the newspaper. He just happened to be there when they came. He was finishing up. He got in all the pictures that went in the newspaper. [We had a lot of fun with the kids also.]

[Assistant] But you got to work on Apollo 11, so that’s a good tradeoff. You mentioned a while ago too about [Apollo] 13, about how important it was. Were you part [of that mission?]