[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, but I didn't last in that village six months.

[Assistant] Okay, go ahead.

[User] Because you see, because they separated Mike and me. And so in order to see each other, we would have to meet in Guatemala City. So on weekends we would leave our villages and go into Guatemala City and be together.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so after January, February, March, April. We got married at the end of April because it got just ridiculous going and coming and going and coming. So we decided to get married.

[Assistant] Did you have to ask for permission of the country director?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so after January, February, March, April. We got married at the end of April because it got just ridiculous going and coming and going and coming. So we decided to get married.

[Assistant] Did you have to ask for permission of the country director?

[User] And our parents. We had to have permission of the country director and permission from our parents.

[Assistant] Documented?

[User] Well, we had to send them a cable and wait for a cable to come back. So the Peace Corps said we cannot allow anybody's status to change while you're a Peace Corps volunteer without permission from your parents.

[Assistant] How old were you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And our parents. We had to have permission of the country director and permission from our parents.

[Assistant] Documented?

[User] Well, we had to send them a cable and wait for a cable to come back. So the Peace Corps said we cannot allow anybody's status to change while you're a Peace Corps volunteer without permission from your parents.

[Assistant] How old were you?

[User] 21. And Mike was 22. And so we sent telegrams to our parents, and both parents sent a telegram back that it was okay.

[Assistant] They were totally aware of the relationship?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 21. And Mike was 22. And so we sent telegrams to our parents, and both parents sent a telegram back that it was okay.

[Assistant] They were totally aware of the relationship?

[User] They were, yeah, because they had met. I hadn't met Mike's parents, but my parents had met Mike.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they were aware of the relationship. So they said, yes, that we could get married. So we got married in Guatemala City and the CARE director walked me down the aisle and gave me away. Kenny Kent, who was only a few years older than me, and when I last saw him a few years ago, he said, Betsy, I was shaking as much as you were walking down that aisle.

[Assistant] So did any of the family come?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were, yeah, because they had met. I hadn't met Mike's parents, but my parents had met Mike.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they were aware of the relationship. So they said, yes, that we could get married. So we got married in Guatemala City and the CARE director walked me down the aisle and gave me away. Kenny Kent, who was only a few years older than me, and when I last saw him a few years ago, he said, Betsy, I was shaking as much as you were walking down that aisle.

[Assistant] So did any of the family come?

[User] No, in neither family. Both parents. His father was a doctor. My father was working. Nobody could get. That was, this is in 1963, '64.

[Assistant] Did the Peace Corps country director go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they were aware of the relationship. So they said, yes, that we could get married. So we got married in Guatemala City and the CARE director walked me down the aisle and gave me away. Kenny Kent, who was only a few years older than me, and when I last saw him a few years ago, he said, Betsy, I was shaking as much as you were walking down that aisle.

[Assistant] So did any of the family come?

[User] No, in neither family. Both parents. His father was a doctor. My father was working. Nobody could get. That was, this is in 1963, '64.

[Assistant] Did the Peace Corps country director go?

[User] Oh, yeah. And the Peace Corps volunteers did. Yeah, we had a lovely little church wedding and reception. My dress cost $5. The whole wedding cost about $10.

[Assistant] You didn't sew it yourself?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, in neither family. Both parents. His father was a doctor. My father was working. Nobody could get. That was, this is in 1963, '64.

[Assistant] Did the Peace Corps country director go?

[User] Oh, yeah. And the Peace Corps volunteers did. Yeah, we had a lovely little church wedding and reception. My dress cost $5. The whole wedding cost about $10.

[Assistant] You didn't sew it yourself?

[User] I didn't sell it myself, no. I bought material and took it to a woman. I paid her $5 and she sewed it. Yeah. Didn't sew it myself.

[Assistant] So did you have a chance, a break there to go on a honeymoon?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. And the Peace Corps volunteers did. Yeah, we had a lovely little church wedding and reception. My dress cost $5. The whole wedding cost about $10.

[Assistant] You didn't sew it yourself?

[User] I didn't sell it myself, no. I bought material and took it to a woman. I paid her $5 and she sewed it. Yeah. Didn't sew it myself.

[Assistant] So did you have a chance, a break there to go on a honeymoon?

[User] Yeah, we did. We had, I think we had about.

[Assistant] You had leave coming to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we did. We had, I think we had about.

[Assistant] You had leave coming to you?

[User] Yeah, we had. Yeah, we had, we had a few days because we went to Lake Atitlan and Sam Green, who was an American living in Guatemala, had a lot of money and a lot of houses, and he was always in touch with young people. He gave us his house to have our honeymoon in on the lake, but he was there also and he was snooping around the house.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Yes. He was a dirty old man.

[Assistant] Must have been a little uncomfortable.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Doug and my neighbor took my little Sam down the street to the cemetery and buried Sam in the cemetery. And I was. I was crushed. And the children in the village were crushed, and everybody was very sad.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
Two weeks later. Two weeks later, I'm in my house doing something, and I hear the kids yelling, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy? Aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam! Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. And I threw open the door of my house and looked at the dirt road that went out to the end of the town where the cemetery was. And there's this little white, dirty, dirty, blood mangled in white coat fur, slowly dragging himself down the street. And the children are standing there just screaming at me. Sam, aqui esta Sam, aqui esta Sam! Here is Sam, here is Sam. And it was my little dog. Sam had come back to life. And so I was now the hero of the village. My dog, who had died and been buried for two weeks, came back to life and lived, then lived many more months with me.

So that was an incredible story, an incredible story of how that little dog. Obviously, they must not have buried her. They must have just thrown her in the thing and the poor little thing healed herself, somehow survived and came back to me. So that was an incredible story. So then, then I left the village, got married, and then we were sent to up to Flores, Petén, in Petén, near Tikal. And the city of Flores.

[Assistant] Had Mike been there before?

[User] No, Mike was assigned to the other side of the country in a place called Barberena.

[Assistant] So for both of you, it was a totally new assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Two weeks later. Two weeks later, I'm in my house doing something, and I hear the kids yelling, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy? Aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam! Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. And I threw open the door of my house and looked at the dirt road that went out to the end of the town where the cemetery was. And there's this little white, dirty, dirty, blood mangled in white coat fur, slowly dragging himself down the street. And the children are standing there just screaming at me. Sam, aqui esta Sam, aqui esta Sam! Here is Sam, here is Sam. And it was my little dog. Sam had come back to life. And so I was now the hero of the village. My dog, who had died and been buried for two weeks, came back to life and lived, then lived many more months with me.

So that was an incredible story, an incredible story of how that little dog. Obviously, they must not have buried her. They must have just thrown her in the thing and the poor little thing healed herself, somehow survived and came back to me. So that was an incredible story. So then, then I left the village, got married, and then we were sent to up to Flores, Petén, in Petén, near Tikal. And the city of Flores.

[Assistant] Had Mike been there before?

[User] No, Mike was assigned to the other side of the country in a place called Barberena.

[Assistant] So for both of you, it was a totally new assignment.

[User] It was a totally new site. But there was another Peace Corps volunteer already up there in our group, Tim and Carol. Carol Bellamy, who later became the director of Peace Corps, and Tim Kraft, who always was very political and worked with Jimmy Carter in his campaign.

[Assistant] So there were two volunteers there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, Mike was assigned to the other side of the country in a place called Barberena.

[Assistant] So for both of you, it was a totally new assignment.

[User] It was a totally new site. But there was another Peace Corps volunteer already up there in our group, Tim and Carol. Carol Bellamy, who later became the director of Peace Corps, and Tim Kraft, who always was very political and worked with Jimmy Carter in his campaign.

[Assistant] So there were two volunteers there.

[User] Those two volunteers were there.

[Assistant] And you joined them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a totally new site. But there was another Peace Corps volunteer already up there in our group, Tim and Carol. Carol Bellamy, who later became the director of Peace Corps, and Tim Kraft, who always was very political and worked with Jimmy Carter in his campaign.

[Assistant] So there were two volunteers there.

[User] Those two volunteers were there.

[Assistant] And you joined them.

[User] And Mike and I joined them.

[Assistant] Had they, were they pursuing the CARE program as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And Mike and I joined them.

[Assistant] Had they, were they pursuing the CARE program as well?

[User] No, there we weren't so much doing the CARE program. I don't know what we were doing. We're making gardens. We were digging gardens. Because then I got pregnant and then I got horrible morning sickness.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] So I was throwing up everywhere. I was always throwing up all the time. So I'd go out to dig and work in this big garden that we were building and I'd just start throwing up and I'd go here. And then our dog, Mike's dog, which was a German shepherd, a little German shepherd, and my dog Sam. So Mike's dog somehow got bitten by a rabid dog and got rabies and started running around Flores Petén biting everybody. Bit Mike in the nose, which is a very bad place for a rabid dog to bite. Bit me. Bit a whole bunch of children so.

[Assistant] And you're three months pregnant?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, there we weren't so much doing the CARE program. I don't know what we were doing. We're making gardens. We were digging gardens. Because then I got pregnant and then I got horrible morning sickness.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] So I was throwing up everywhere. I was always throwing up all the time. So I'd go out to dig and work in this big garden that we were building and I'd just start throwing up and I'd go here. And then our dog, Mike's dog, which was a German shepherd, a little German shepherd, and my dog Sam. So Mike's dog somehow got bitten by a rabid dog and got rabies and started running around Flores Petén biting everybody. Bit Mike in the nose, which is a very bad place for a rabid dog to bite. Bit me. Bit a whole bunch of children so.

[Assistant] And you're three months pregnant?

[User] And I'm three months pregnant and so we contact the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] This is not good community development.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I said, what about me? And they said, well, you can just stay there. And I said, but if he's going to die, shouldn't I be with him? And they said, no, no, no, we can't afford to send you. You just stay there. So Mike was sent away to New Orleans, and very soon after that, a telegram came in from Dean Rusk saying, send Mrs. Schwartz to her husband in New Orleans. And we never found out how that happened. But I think Mike's father, who was a doctor in New York?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I think he was horrified about that. And I think he contacted Washington. He said, I don't know. Nobody ever, nobody would ever say.

[Assistant] But it must have had an incredible impact on you to get a telegram saying you should fly to New Orleans.

[User] Yeah, well.

[Assistant] You didn't know, did you know Mike's condition at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think he was horrified about that. And I think he contacted Washington. He said, I don't know. Nobody ever, nobody would ever say.

[Assistant] But it must have had an incredible impact on you to get a telegram saying you should fly to New Orleans.

[User] Yeah, well.

[Assistant] You didn't know, did you know Mike's condition at that point?

[User] Well, I knew that he had rabies and that he was going to go, he was going to New Orleans. And I don't, I just, I don't know. So I said, thank you. Let me go. And so they said, well, we don't know how much money to give you. I didn't have any money. So they gave me a whole lot of money. And when we came back, they said, we gave you the wrong amount. You have to give us all that money back. But I had already spent it on buying some pregnant clothes. So they sent him to the hospital. So I went to the hospital there where he was.

[Assistant] In New Orleans? Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, well.

[Assistant] You didn't know, did you know Mike's condition at that point?

[User] Well, I knew that he had rabies and that he was going to go, he was going to New Orleans. And I don't, I just, I don't know. So I said, thank you. Let me go. And so they said, well, we don't know how much money to give you. I didn't have any money. So they gave me a whole lot of money. And when we came back, they said, we gave you the wrong amount. You have to give us all that money back. But I had already spent it on buying some pregnant clothes. So they sent him to the hospital. So I went to the hospital there where he was.

[Assistant] In New Orleans? Yeah.

[User] And they let him out of the hospital by day. They told him not to spit on the floor anywhere.

[Assistant] That's great. Now in the meantime were you tested? I mean, because you had been bitten too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I knew that he had rabies and that he was going to go, he was going to New Orleans. And I don't, I just, I don't know. So I said, thank you. Let me go. And so they said, well, we don't know how much money to give you. I didn't have any money. So they gave me a whole lot of money. And when we came back, they said, we gave you the wrong amount. You have to give us all that money back. But I had already spent it on buying some pregnant clothes. So they sent him to the hospital. So I went to the hospital there where he was.

[Assistant] In New Orleans? Yeah.

[User] And they let him out of the hospital by day. They told him not to spit on the floor anywhere.

[Assistant] That's great. Now in the meantime were you tested? I mean, because you had been bitten too.

[User] Well, I didn't want to tell. Well, you know what they gave to him? They gave him horse serum shots in the stomach, 21 of them.

[Assistant] Yes, I know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they let him out of the hospital by day. They told him not to spit on the floor anywhere.

[Assistant] That's great. Now in the meantime were you tested? I mean, because you had been bitten too.

[User] Well, I didn't want to tell. Well, you know what they gave to him? They gave him horse serum shots in the stomach, 21 of them.

[Assistant] Yes, I know.

[User] Do think I wanted that? I had a baby in there. I didn't want that.

[Assistant] Yeah, but you might.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I didn't want to tell. Well, you know what they gave to him? They gave him horse serum shots in the stomach, 21 of them.

[Assistant] Yes, I know.

[User] Do think I wanted that? I had a baby in there. I didn't want that.

[Assistant] Yeah, but you might.

[User] I know, but I just said, he didn't. The dog didn't bite me very bad. I didn't want the shots. I was terrified of them. And the other people that the dog bit, nobody else got the horse serum shot except for Mike because he had gotten bitten right on the nose, which is the face and the hands are the two worst place for rabies.

[Assistant] So you have this New Orleans interlude. You're both there. Mike recovered.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Do think I wanted that? I had a baby in there. I didn't want that.

[Assistant] Yeah, but you might.

[User] I know, but I just said, he didn't. The dog didn't bite me very bad. I didn't want the shots. I was terrified of them. And the other people that the dog bit, nobody else got the horse serum shot except for Mike because he had gotten bitten right on the nose, which is the face and the hands are the two worst place for rabies.

[Assistant] So you have this New Orleans interlude. You're both there. Mike recovered.

[User] He's allowed out of the hospital. He just has to go back into the hospital each day to check. But we stayed in a hotel with my big per diem. They gave me. They gave me the per diem, instead of for a Peace Corps volunteer, they gave it for a staff. For a staff person.

[Assistant] Did anyone at this point from Peace Corps suggest that maybe you terminate your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I know, but I just said, he didn't. The dog didn't bite me very bad. I didn't want the shots. I was terrified of them. And the other people that the dog bit, nobody else got the horse serum shot except for Mike because he had gotten bitten right on the nose, which is the face and the hands are the two worst place for rabies.

[Assistant] So you have this New Orleans interlude. You're both there. Mike recovered.

[User] He's allowed out of the hospital. He just has to go back into the hospital each day to check. But we stayed in a hotel with my big per diem. They gave me. They gave me the per diem, instead of for a Peace Corps volunteer, they gave it for a staff. For a staff person.

[Assistant] Did anyone at this point from Peace Corps suggest that maybe you terminate your service?

[User] No. They never suggested that.

[Assistant] So with all the medical care, your expectation was that you were going back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He's allowed out of the hospital. He just has to go back into the hospital each day to check. But we stayed in a hotel with my big per diem. They gave me. They gave me the per diem, instead of for a Peace Corps volunteer, they gave it for a staff. For a staff person.

[Assistant] Did anyone at this point from Peace Corps suggest that maybe you terminate your service?

[User] No. They never suggested that.

[Assistant] So with all the medical care, your expectation was that you were going back?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Now as far as.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. They never suggested that.

[Assistant] So with all the medical care, your expectation was that you were going back?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Now as far as.

[User] They never suggested that. If he was going to die, they just, you know, they didn't want it happening down there. Right.

[Assistant] Yeah. When you were married, when you asked the permission of country director to be married, did anyone imply or suggest that perhaps it would be good if you not have children while you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Now as far as.

[User] They never suggested that. If he was going to die, they just, you know, they didn't want it happening down there. Right.

[Assistant] Yeah. When you were married, when you asked the permission of country director to be married, did anyone imply or suggest that perhaps it would be good if you not have children while you were there?

[User] No, they didn't say that. Already two. No, they hadn't been born yet. There were to be three babies born in that group, mine and two others. Mine was the second. First, second and third.

[Assistant] All married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they didn't say that. Already two. No, they hadn't been born yet. There were to be three babies born in that group, mine and two others. Mine was the second. First, second and third.

[Assistant] All married couples?

[User] All married couples.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah, they didn't. They did not suggest that at all. As a matter of fact, Andy Hernandez was great. And every time a couple went to him and said, we're pregnant, he said, that's fine. You know, use this baby to show your village how to bring up a baby.

[Assistant] Was there any, was there any sense that you would best to have the child you should return to Guatemala City?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All married couples.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah, they didn't. They did not suggest that at all. As a matter of fact, Andy Hernandez was great. And every time a couple went to him and said, we're pregnant, he said, that's fine. You know, use this baby to show your village how to bring up a baby.

[Assistant] Was there any, was there any sense that you would best to have the child you should return to Guatemala City?

[User] Yeah. They never suggested anything. Oh. Oh, return, go to Guatemala City?

[Assistant] To have the baby.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. They never suggested anything. Oh. Oh, return, go to Guatemala City?

[Assistant] To have the baby.

[User] Yes, that's right. I was brought. All the people, all the three of us, the three couples who had a baby, all were in or near Guatemala City.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Moved there close to the time.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. But when Mike is recovered from the rabies, you then go back to the village where Carol and Tom were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Moved there close to the time.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. But when Mike is recovered from the rabies, you then go back to the village where Carol and Tom were?

[User] Um, Tim. Carol and Tim. No, actually, when we came back to Guatemala from there, then they said, since you're pregnant, we're going to move you closer to Guatemala City.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And that's when they moved us to there, Aldea Lo De Bran, which is kilometer 16 out of Guatemala City.

[Assistant] And that was your third assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, Tim. Carol and Tim. No, actually, when we came back to Guatemala from there, then they said, since you're pregnant, we're going to move you closer to Guatemala City.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And that's when they moved us to there, Aldea Lo De Bran, which is kilometer 16 out of Guatemala City.

[Assistant] And that was your third assignment?

[User] That was my third assignment.

[Assistant] Okay. And you're still in your first year as a volunteer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
But there's something I have to tell you about when we lived up in Flores Petén. There was this old American man who came drive from Maryland, the state of Maryland. He came driving in his four wheel drive vehicle down to Guatemala, came up into the Petén, into Flores where we were, and goes around town. I hear there's Peace Corps couple here. I hear there's a Peace Corps couple. I need some help. So they directed him to Mike and me and he said, ah, you're the Peace Corps couple here? And we said, yeah. Tim and Carol lived not in Flores but in Santa Elena, which was a little ways away. So he goes, you're the Peace Corps couple here? And we go, yeah. And he goes, you know, I want to drive my, my four wheel drive vehicle up to Tikal, but I hear there's a lot of road cut down, a lot of trees down over the road. I was wondering if you could come with me and cut the tree so I can get through.

And Mike and I said, yeah, we'd love to. Now, this is in 1964. This is when the University of Pennsylvania has just recently, I think they began in 1963 doing their excavations in Tikal.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And there is just a dirt road that gets there. It's a long dirt road. And there were all these trees falling all over the road. And he, this man had brought a chainsaw. And you know how men love chainsaws. He brought a chainsaw and a winch. And so they would cut. Mike and this guy would cut all these things and we'd drag them away and put them on the winch and haul them out of the road and clear, clear the road. It was a wonderful trip up to Tikal. It was totally memorable. That was my first visit to the ruins at Tikal in 1964.

[Assistant] So did you settle into any kind of? The pregnancy must have been somewhat unsettling. Any kind of community development role?

[User] Well. [tape break]

[Assistant] Okay. Go ahead.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there is just a dirt road that gets there. It's a long dirt road. And there were all these trees falling all over the road. And he, this man had brought a chainsaw. And you know how men love chainsaws. He brought a chainsaw and a winch. And so they would cut. Mike and this guy would cut all these things and we'd drag them away and put them on the winch and haul them out of the road and clear, clear the road. It was a wonderful trip up to Tikal. It was totally memorable. That was my first visit to the ruins at Tikal in 1964.

[Assistant] So did you settle into any kind of? The pregnancy must have been somewhat unsettling. Any kind of community development role?

[User] Well. [tape break]

[Assistant] Okay. Go ahead.

[User] So what I, what I remember. We weren't really working so much in community development there as we were working with projects that Tim and Carol had already started. And so we supported them in their projects. And some of them were these building these gardens, digging these gardens. And that's what was difficult for me.

[Assistant] Were you close to the capital city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well. [tape break]

[Assistant] Okay. Go ahead.

[User] So what I, what I remember. We weren't really working so much in community development there as we were working with projects that Tim and Carol had already started. And so we supported them in their projects. And some of them were these building these gardens, digging these gardens. And that's what was difficult for me.

[Assistant] Were you close to the capital city?

[User]
No, this is in Petén. This isn't. This is in Flores Petén, which is a long way away from the capital city. But when we came back from the rabies incident and came back into Guatemala City, then the director, who was a new director now. Andy Hernandez has left and a new director is there, whose name I don't recall. And they decided that we needed to be close to the city.

So we were sent to a little aldea called Aldea Lo De Bran, which was on kilometer 16 outside of Guatemala City, outside of Guatemala City. And this was a little totally indigenous community, very tiny. It had no running water. It had no electricity. It had very, very poor people. It had no sanitation at all. People just went potty in the cornfields. And so it was suggested to us that one project we might want to do would be help people build latrines. And that another project the government wanted us to do was to begin teaching Spanish literacy, because the Indian people, there are all these different dialects all over the country, and the government wanted everybody, all indigenous groups, to be able to read and write and speak Spanish.

[Assistant] In this new environment you're in, are there any Guatemalan counterparts you worked with? You mentioned the government programs.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So what I, what I remember. We weren't really working so much in community development there as we were working with projects that Tim and Carol had already started. And so we supported them in their projects. And some of them were these building these gardens, digging these gardens. And that's what was difficult for me.

[Assistant] Were you close to the capital city?

[User]
No, this is in Petén. This isn't. This is in Flores Petén, which is a long way away from the capital city. But when we came back from the rabies incident and came back into Guatemala City, then the director, who was a new director now. Andy Hernandez has left and a new director is there, whose name I don't recall. And they decided that we needed to be close to the city.

So we were sent to a little aldea called Aldea Lo De Bran, which was on kilometer 16 outside of Guatemala City, outside of Guatemala City. And this was a little totally indigenous community, very tiny. It had no running water. It had no electricity. It had very, very poor people. It had no sanitation at all. People just went potty in the cornfields. And so it was suggested to us that one project we might want to do would be help people build latrines. And that another project the government wanted us to do was to begin teaching Spanish literacy, because the Indian people, there are all these different dialects all over the country, and the government wanted everybody, all indigenous groups, to be able to read and write and speak Spanish.

[Assistant] In this new environment you're in, are there any Guatemalan counterparts you worked with? You mentioned the government programs.

[User] Yes. Yes. We worked with the reading program, the Alfabetización. How do you say that word in English? Alpha-. Literacy. Literacy classes.

[Assistant] And that was the Guatemalan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No, this is in Petén. This isn't. This is in Flores Petén, which is a long way away from the capital city. But when we came back from the rabies incident and came back into Guatemala City, then the director, who was a new director now. Andy Hernandez has left and a new director is there, whose name I don't recall. And they decided that we needed to be close to the city.

So we were sent to a little aldea called Aldea Lo De Bran, which was on kilometer 16 outside of Guatemala City, outside of Guatemala City. And this was a little totally indigenous community, very tiny. It had no running water. It had no electricity. It had very, very poor people. It had no sanitation at all. People just went potty in the cornfields. And so it was suggested to us that one project we might want to do would be help people build latrines. And that another project the government wanted us to do was to begin teaching Spanish literacy, because the Indian people, there are all these different dialects all over the country, and the government wanted everybody, all indigenous groups, to be able to read and write and speak Spanish.

[Assistant] In this new environment you're in, are there any Guatemalan counterparts you worked with? You mentioned the government programs.

[User] Yes. Yes. We worked with the reading program, the Alfabetización. How do you say that word in English? Alpha-. Literacy. Literacy classes.

[Assistant] And that was the Guatemalan?

[User] That was a Guatemalan agency. We worked with a lot of Guatemalan agencies here because here's where we really did the crux of our community development. This little, this little village already had some clearly established leaders. They already had what was called a betterment committee. And so we stepped in and went to work with this betterment committee.

[Assistant] Had any volunteers been there before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes. We worked with the reading program, the Alfabetización. How do you say that word in English? Alpha-. Literacy. Literacy classes.

[Assistant] And that was the Guatemalan?

[User] That was a Guatemalan agency. We worked with a lot of Guatemalan agencies here because here's where we really did the crux of our community development. This little, this little village already had some clearly established leaders. They already had what was called a betterment committee. And so we stepped in and went to work with this betterment committee.

[Assistant] Had any volunteers been there before?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So it was fresh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was a Guatemalan agency. We worked with a lot of Guatemalan agencies here because here's where we really did the crux of our community development. This little, this little village already had some clearly established leaders. They already had what was called a betterment committee. And so we stepped in and went to work with this betterment committee.

[Assistant] Had any volunteers been there before?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So it was fresh.

[User] We were, yeah, and again, we had to go through the thing with, who's paying you? What is your job? You do what? So that was always very, no matter where we stayed, it was always difficult for the native people to understand. Your government is paying you to come live here and do what? To do this?

[Assistant] What did people make of the fact you were walking around four or five months pregnant?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So it was fresh.

[User] We were, yeah, and again, we had to go through the thing with, who's paying you? What is your job? You do what? So that was always very, no matter where we stayed, it was always difficult for the native people to understand. Your government is paying you to come live here and do what? To do this?

[Assistant] What did people make of the fact you were walking around four or five months pregnant?

[User] They thought that was great. We were a married couple. You're supposed to have a baby as soon as you get married in Guatemala. That was really cool. That was good.

[Assistant] And nobody thought you could take to the house.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were, yeah, and again, we had to go through the thing with, who's paying you? What is your job? You do what? So that was always very, no matter where we stayed, it was always difficult for the native people to understand. Your government is paying you to come live here and do what? To do this?

[Assistant] What did people make of the fact you were walking around four or five months pregnant?

[User] They thought that was great. We were a married couple. You're supposed to have a baby as soon as you get married in Guatemala. That was really cool. That was good.

[Assistant] And nobody thought you could take to the house.

[User] Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, that was. That was fine. So we had this betterment committee, and they, the betterment committee, they wanted to have running water in their town and they wanted to have electricity, which are two huge projects for 16 kilometers out of the city. They were out of the extent of electricity and running water. So it took years. We started on that. And when I went back. Oh, Mike and I went back in, uh, '65. In '73, eight years later, and they had just finished the project of the water and the electricity, but they carried it through to the end. It was wonderful.

[Assistant] Let's stick to your time there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yeah. So while we were there, so we got all that stuff started and there were commissions that went in every week to the city to talk to the electricity company and the water company. And we kept inspiring them to keep going. Things, it's going to take a long time. Things are going to happen slow. And they would go, sometimes Mike would go with them, sometimes they'd go on their own. Mike also began this raising chickens, and we had this wonderful little house that did have electricity. They found a nice little house for us in this little village because we were going to have a baby. So it did have electricity. We didn't have to use candles like we've done in all the other houses. But it had electricity. And what was the point of that? Um. It's a great little house.

Mike had started some working, getting the men to raise chickens from two day old chicks to supplement their income and get more protein into their diet. And also, we started these literacy classes. And every evening Mike and I would walk from our house about a mile down the dirt road to the school where we would teach Spanish reading and writing to the native indigenous population of our village.

[Assistant] Was it just adults?

[User] And that is perhaps the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. Yes, they were adults and they could speak Spanish, but they had never read or written anything and trying to teach them that required the most patience that you could ever come up with. It was very, very difficult.

[Assistant] What was the setting? Was it a school?

[User] Yeah, it was the school. It was the elementary school for the village. And at nighttime we would.

[Assistant] Was it the parents of students who came?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was the school. It was the elementary school for the village. And at nighttime we would.

[Assistant] Was it the parents of students who came?

[User] Yeah, they were just the people. A lot of them were older people. They didn't have kids in the school. They were the leaders. They were some of the leaders of the, of the community that hadn't learned to read and write Spanish yet. And they would try so hard. And we had a bodyguard that walked us every night and waited for us and walked us home. Don Anselmo, he lived across the street. That was the husband of Mrs. Victor. She was called Mrs. Victor because her son's name was Victor. So we called her Mrs. Victor.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] We had a bodyguard because he didn't want anything to happen to us. And one day, one night we were walking to school and somebody with a machete came out and got him, sliced his head in the back. And we couldn't understand why. We, first of all, we didn't understand why he thought it was necessary to protect us. But he did. He thought it was necessary to protect us. And so we let him walk with us every night. And then that one night they came out and macheted him in his head and we were just really upset. He was okay, didn't, I mean, he was bleeding a lot.

[Assistant] Just attacked him and ran away?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they were just the people. A lot of them were older people. They didn't have kids in the school. They were the leaders. They were some of the leaders of the, of the community that hadn't learned to read and write Spanish yet. And they would try so hard. And we had a bodyguard that walked us every night and waited for us and walked us home. Don Anselmo, he lived across the street. That was the husband of Mrs. Victor. She was called Mrs. Victor because her son's name was Victor. So we called her Mrs. Victor.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] We had a bodyguard because he didn't want anything to happen to us. And one day, one night we were walking to school and somebody with a machete came out and got him, sliced his head in the back. And we couldn't understand why. We, first of all, we didn't understand why he thought it was necessary to protect us. But he did. He thought it was necessary to protect us. And so we let him walk with us every night. And then that one night they came out and macheted him in his head and we were just really upset. He was okay, didn't, I mean, he was bleeding a lot.

[Assistant] Just attacked him and ran away?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was it politically motivated or no idea?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a bodyguard because he didn't want anything to happen to us. And one day, one night we were walking to school and somebody with a machete came out and got him, sliced his head in the back. And we couldn't understand why. We, first of all, we didn't understand why he thought it was necessary to protect us. But he did. He thought it was necessary to protect us. And so we let him walk with us every night. And then that one night they came out and macheted him in his head and we were just really upset. He was okay, didn't, I mean, he was bleeding a lot.

[Assistant] Just attacked him and ran away?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was it politically motivated or no idea?

[User] You know, I don't know. We never. Nobody. No, I don't know.

[Assistant] Well, you mentioned a lot of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Was it politically motivated or no idea?

[User] You know, I don't know. We never. Nobody. No, I don't know.

[Assistant] Well, you mentioned a lot of.

[User] He was not a very popular man. He was not. He had some money.

[Assistant] The guy who was the bodyguard?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I don't know. We never. Nobody. No, I don't know.

[Assistant] Well, you mentioned a lot of.

[User] He was not a very popular man. He was not. He had some money.

[Assistant] The guy who was the bodyguard?

[User] Yeah. Don Anselmo, our bodyguard. He had some money. He and his wife had a whole little farm with a lot of cows, and they had a little bit of money. And I think he must have had some enemies for some reason. I don't know why.

[Assistant] You mentioned a lot of what Mike was doing. In the meantime, you were six, seven, eight months pregnant.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was not a very popular man. He was not. He had some money.

[Assistant] The guy who was the bodyguard?

[User] Yeah. Don Anselmo, our bodyguard. He had some money. He and his wife had a whole little farm with a lot of cows, and they had a little bit of money. And I think he must have had some enemies for some reason. I don't know why.

[Assistant] You mentioned a lot of what Mike was doing. In the meantime, you were six, seven, eight months pregnant.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And were you working mostly with the women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Don Anselmo, our bodyguard. He had some money. He and his wife had a whole little farm with a lot of cows, and they had a little bit of money. And I think he must have had some enemies for some reason. I don't know why.

[Assistant] You mentioned a lot of what Mike was doing. In the meantime, you were six, seven, eight months pregnant.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And were you working mostly with the women?

[User] Yeah, I was working all the time. Um.

[Assistant] More with the women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And were you working mostly with the women?

[User] Yeah, I was working all the time. Um.

[Assistant] More with the women?

[User] Yeah, I was doing. I was doing more stuff like teaching them to boil the water because the water that they were pumping out of the well was like the desagua, the sewer water from La Florida, which was the neighboring, that was the last zone in the city of Guatemala. And they had all this horrible water, and that's kind of the water that they were drinking. It was horrible water. And so I was teaching them about boiling water. I was trying to do sanitation and health.

[Assistant] What was the, what was the structure you were working at? I mean, you simply appear at the well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was working all the time. Um.

[Assistant] More with the women?

[User] Yeah, I was doing. I was doing more stuff like teaching them to boil the water because the water that they were pumping out of the well was like the desagua, the sewer water from La Florida, which was the neighboring, that was the last zone in the city of Guatemala. And they had all this horrible water, and that's kind of the water that they were drinking. It was horrible water. And so I was teaching them about boiling water. I was trying to do sanitation and health.

[Assistant] What was the, what was the structure you were working at? I mean, you simply appear at the well?

[User] No, no. We would meet. I would meet with the women at somebody's house, at one of the women's house.

[Assistant] How was that? Who invited whom?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was doing. I was doing more stuff like teaching them to boil the water because the water that they were pumping out of the well was like the desagua, the sewer water from La Florida, which was the neighboring, that was the last zone in the city of Guatemala. And they had all this horrible water, and that's kind of the water that they were drinking. It was horrible water. And so I was teaching them about boiling water. I was trying to do sanitation and health.

[Assistant] What was the, what was the structure you were working at? I mean, you simply appear at the well?

[User] No, no. We would meet. I would meet with the women at somebody's house, at one of the women's house.

[Assistant] How was that? Who invited whom?

[User] How was that set up? Who invited whom? I think. Um, who invited whom? It's, it's hard to remember. We were involved with so many different projects.

[Assistant] Was there any Guatemalan community development officer within the town or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. We would meet. I would meet with the women at somebody's house, at one of the women's house.

[Assistant] How was that? Who invited whom?

[User] How was that set up? Who invited whom? I think. Um, who invited whom? It's, it's hard to remember. We were involved with so many different projects.

[Assistant] Was there any Guatemalan community development officer within the town or?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Or any department of social welfare?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How was that set up? Who invited whom? I think. Um, who invited whom? It's, it's hard to remember. We were involved with so many different projects.

[Assistant] Was there any Guatemalan community development officer within the town or?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Or any department of social welfare?

[User] No. No. It was pretty much us.

[Assistant] Right. I gather that people tended to accept that you were volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Or any department of social welfare?

[User] No. No. It was pretty much us.

[Assistant] Right. I gather that people tended to accept that you were volunteers.

[User] People tended to accept us. You know, they liked us. We did things for their children. When Christmas came, um, before Christmas, Mike was very good in art. We made a lot of big pinatas and filled them with things and then took them to the school. And we had three legged races for the kids and then we had the kids break open the pinata and get little things. So people liked us because we were always doing things with the kids. I loved to play sports with the kids and there was always a basketball hoop up at the school and Mike liked sports with kids also. So we were very popular as young people living there. They liked us. They couldn't understand why we were there, but they liked us. Unlike one other couple in our country.

[Assistant] Were you aware at all of local politics or in the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No. It was pretty much us.

[Assistant] Right. I gather that people tended to accept that you were volunteers.

[User] People tended to accept us. You know, they liked us. We did things for their children. When Christmas came, um, before Christmas, Mike was very good in art. We made a lot of big pinatas and filled them with things and then took them to the school. And we had three legged races for the kids and then we had the kids break open the pinata and get little things. So people liked us because we were always doing things with the kids. I loved to play sports with the kids and there was always a basketball hoop up at the school and Mike liked sports with kids also. So we were very popular as young people living there. They liked us. They couldn't understand why we were there, but they liked us. Unlike one other couple in our country.

[Assistant] Were you aware at all of local politics or in the village?

[User] We were a little, we were a little bit aware. We realized that these were indigenous people and they were very low on the totem pole. And we knew it was going to be very difficult for them to be able to fulfill their projects of water and electricity. And so we worked very hard with them at the meetings. We would talk with them and just help inspire them and encourage them to keep going back. You've got to keep going back when they tell you no, you've got to go back when they say they can't do this, you've got to ask again. And so we tried to give them a confidence in themselves and hope.

[Assistant] Do you want to talk about the pregnancy and the birth of your child?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] People tended to accept us. You know, they liked us. We did things for their children. When Christmas came, um, before Christmas, Mike was very good in art. We made a lot of big pinatas and filled them with things and then took them to the school. And we had three legged races for the kids and then we had the kids break open the pinata and get little things. So people liked us because we were always doing things with the kids. I loved to play sports with the kids and there was always a basketball hoop up at the school and Mike liked sports with kids also. So we were very popular as young people living there. They liked us. They couldn't understand why we were there, but they liked us. Unlike one other couple in our country.

[Assistant] Were you aware at all of local politics or in the village?

[User] We were a little, we were a little bit aware. We realized that these were indigenous people and they were very low on the totem pole. And we knew it was going to be very difficult for them to be able to fulfill their projects of water and electricity. And so we worked very hard with them at the meetings. We would talk with them and just help inspire them and encourage them to keep going back. You've got to keep going back when they tell you no, you've got to go back when they say they can't do this, you've got to ask again. And so we tried to give them a confidence in themselves and hope.

[Assistant] Do you want to talk about the pregnancy and the birth of your child?

[User] Well, um.

[Assistant] I'm almost afraid to ask.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were a little, we were a little bit aware. We realized that these were indigenous people and they were very low on the totem pole. And we knew it was going to be very difficult for them to be able to fulfill their projects of water and electricity. And so we worked very hard with them at the meetings. We would talk with them and just help inspire them and encourage them to keep going back. You've got to keep going back when they tell you no, you've got to go back when they say they can't do this, you've got to ask again. And so we tried to give them a confidence in themselves and hope.

[Assistant] Do you want to talk about the pregnancy and the birth of your child?

[User] Well, um.

[Assistant] I'm almost afraid to ask.

[User] Yeah. No, it was very. We had a very nice doctor. Actually he's the, was the doctor of my son's little girl when she was first born. He was the pediatrician for Chris when he was born. I want to mention what one person said. I lost a lot of weight during my pregnancy. I was very, very thin. And when Chris was born, he was a very little baby, he was just six and a half pounds. So he was very thin and wrinkled. And a lot of the other Peace Corps volunteers came into the hospital to visit me. And Dave Smith came in and Dave Smith and his wife, Sue, had had the first Peace Corps baby there, and his baby came out round and beautiful. And he came in and looked at my little skinny son and they said, well, he won't get any uglier. And I thought that was such a terrible thing to say here. This is my baby. He's like, well, he won't get any uglier.

[Assistant] So you were able to get into Guatemala City.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, um.

[Assistant] I'm almost afraid to ask.

[User] Yeah. No, it was very. We had a very nice doctor. Actually he's the, was the doctor of my son's little girl when she was first born. He was the pediatrician for Chris when he was born. I want to mention what one person said. I lost a lot of weight during my pregnancy. I was very, very thin. And when Chris was born, he was a very little baby, he was just six and a half pounds. So he was very thin and wrinkled. And a lot of the other Peace Corps volunteers came into the hospital to visit me. And Dave Smith came in and Dave Smith and his wife, Sue, had had the first Peace Corps baby there, and his baby came out round and beautiful. And he came in and looked at my little skinny son and they said, well, he won't get any uglier. And I thought that was such a terrible thing to say here. This is my baby. He's like, well, he won't get any uglier.

[Assistant] So you were able to get into Guatemala City.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] In time and.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. They gave us about three weeks before my due date.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] They assigned a vehicle to us. They gave us a jeep.

[Assistant] Oh, great.

[User] So we had a way to get into the city at any time of the day or night. Yeah, right. That was great.

[Assistant] And it went smoothly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we had a way to get into the city at any time of the day or night. Yeah, right. That was great.

[Assistant] And it went smoothly?

[User] And it went smoothly.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Well, birth didn't. It took forever.

[Assistant] Yeah. And after the birth of your child, did you get maternity leave of any sort?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it went smoothly.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Well, birth didn't. It took forever.

[Assistant] Yeah. And after the birth of your child, did you get maternity leave of any sort?

[User] No, no, you don't get any leave, but you don't need any leave in Peace Corps. I mean, you just, you know. But it was really great because the town, the village, was so excited about my having a baby and he had red hair. He was this white baby with red hair. And they called him El Nino Jesus, the little baby Jesus. El Nino Jesus. So they called him the baby Jesus and they loved him.

[Assistant] Were there any ceremonies in the village when you came back with the baby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, birth didn't. It took forever.

[Assistant] Yeah. And after the birth of your child, did you get maternity leave of any sort?

[User] No, no, you don't get any leave, but you don't need any leave in Peace Corps. I mean, you just, you know. But it was really great because the town, the village, was so excited about my having a baby and he had red hair. He was this white baby with red hair. And they called him El Nino Jesus, the little baby Jesus. El Nino Jesus. So they called him the baby Jesus and they loved him.

[Assistant] Were there any ceremonies in the village when you came back with the baby?

[User] No, there weren't any ceremonies. But my neighbor, Mrs. Victor, the woman and her husband, Don Anselmo, they were great. She would offer to take baby Chris after he was a couple of weeks old. I just put him on my back in that thing and I'd throw that on my back and carry him wherever I needed to go and do whatever work I needed to do. But when sometimes if I needed to go do something more than that, she would take him and keep him over at her house. And she fed him coffee and beans and he didn't throw it up. The Gerber baby food company was at our doorstep and they delivered us tons of Gerber baby food because it was an advertisement for them. We were to show all the villagers how baby food, Gerber's baby food, was going to make this baby grow big and strong. And you know what our baby did with baby Gerber's food? Threw it up. Especially when it came time to eating spinach. He was always throwing up dark green spinach.

[Assistant] Did you, was it with your agreement or did some Gerber representative suddenly appear at the doorstep?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, you don't get any leave, but you don't need any leave in Peace Corps. I mean, you just, you know. But it was really great because the town, the village, was so excited about my having a baby and he had red hair. He was this white baby with red hair. And they called him El Nino Jesus, the little baby Jesus. El Nino Jesus. So they called him the baby Jesus and they loved him.

[Assistant] Were there any ceremonies in the village when you came back with the baby?

[User] No, there weren't any ceremonies. But my neighbor, Mrs. Victor, the woman and her husband, Don Anselmo, they were great. She would offer to take baby Chris after he was a couple of weeks old. I just put him on my back in that thing and I'd throw that on my back and carry him wherever I needed to go and do whatever work I needed to do. But when sometimes if I needed to go do something more than that, she would take him and keep him over at her house. And she fed him coffee and beans and he didn't throw it up. The Gerber baby food company was at our doorstep and they delivered us tons of Gerber baby food because it was an advertisement for them. We were to show all the villagers how baby food, Gerber's baby food, was going to make this baby grow big and strong. And you know what our baby did with baby Gerber's food? Threw it up. Especially when it came time to eating spinach. He was always throwing up dark green spinach.

[Assistant] Did you, was it with your agreement or did some Gerber representative suddenly appear at the doorstep?

[User] Gerber appeared at the doorsteps of all three babies. They thought that was a great.

[Assistant] With the approval of Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, there weren't any ceremonies. But my neighbor, Mrs. Victor, the woman and her husband, Don Anselmo, they were great. She would offer to take baby Chris after he was a couple of weeks old. I just put him on my back in that thing and I'd throw that on my back and carry him wherever I needed to go and do whatever work I needed to do. But when sometimes if I needed to go do something more than that, she would take him and keep him over at her house. And she fed him coffee and beans and he didn't throw it up. The Gerber baby food company was at our doorstep and they delivered us tons of Gerber baby food because it was an advertisement for them. We were to show all the villagers how baby food, Gerber's baby food, was going to make this baby grow big and strong. And you know what our baby did with baby Gerber's food? Threw it up. Especially when it came time to eating spinach. He was always throwing up dark green spinach.

[Assistant] Did you, was it with your agreement or did some Gerber representative suddenly appear at the doorstep?

[User] Gerber appeared at the doorsteps of all three babies. They thought that was a great.

[Assistant] With the approval of Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah. With cases and cases of baby food and they said.

[Assistant] Was there a photographer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Gerber appeared at the doorsteps of all three babies. They thought that was a great.

[Assistant] With the approval of Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah. With cases and cases of baby food and they said.

[Assistant] Was there a photographer?

[User] No, just cases and cases of baby food. Because they knew the villagers would see how big and healthy the baby would grow eating this baby food instead of coffee and beans, which all the other people fed their baby.

[Assistant] Did you have some mixed feelings about the gift from Gerber?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, just cases and cases of baby food. Because they knew the villagers would see how big and healthy the baby would grow eating this baby food instead of coffee and beans, which all the other people fed their baby.

[Assistant] Did you have some mixed feelings about the gift from Gerber?

[User] Um, no, I thought it was very nice that they did that.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] You know, here we didn't have much money. We were very poor. And, you know, I thought it was very nice that they did that. And I thought, wow, we've got all this food. Well, here, I'll just start feeding him.

[Assistant] Now, but now you're in your second year of service, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, no, I thought it was very nice that they did that.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] You know, here we didn't have much money. We were very poor. And, you know, I thought it was very nice that they did that. And I thought, wow, we've got all this food. Well, here, I'll just start feeding him.

[Assistant] Now, but now you're in your second year of service, I think.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did any of the family come out to see the baby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did any of the family come out to see the baby?

[User] Yes, my sister did.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] My sister and her friend drove down to visit us. They drove all the way from, she was living in Milwaukee, in Wisconsin. And she and another teacher friend on their summer vacation drove in, Carol, her friend's little Volkswagen, their little bug all the way down.

[Assistant] That must have been a good time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, my sister did.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] My sister and her friend drove down to visit us. They drove all the way from, she was living in Milwaukee, in Wisconsin. And she and another teacher friend on their summer vacation drove in, Carol, her friend's little Volkswagen, their little bug all the way down.

[Assistant] That must have been a good time.

[User] Yeah. It was, it was great. It was really fun. They loved it. They loved their drive down and they loved being with us in the village and seeing, my sister seeing her little nephew.

[Assistant] And then she could go back and report to your family that all was well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My sister and her friend drove down to visit us. They drove all the way from, she was living in Milwaukee, in Wisconsin. And she and another teacher friend on their summer vacation drove in, Carol, her friend's little Volkswagen, their little bug all the way down.

[Assistant] That must have been a good time.

[User] Yeah. It was, it was great. It was really fun. They loved it. They loved their drive down and they loved being with us in the village and seeing, my sister seeing her little nephew.

[Assistant] And then she could go back and report to your family that all was well.

[User] That all was well. Yeah.

[Assistant] Now so talk about sometimes although so much accomplishment already in your life, sometimes as people are getting near the end of their second year, they want to be sure that before they leave, they've achieved something. Particularly in a community which is different from teaching, teaching, teachers. So you want to see this project in place or this project done, or was there any of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We felt pretty good. I felt. Well, Mike felt pretty good about his chicken project because that had been very, very difficult to get people to put out money to buy these baby chicks before you're getting any money from them.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so he felt very good about that. I felt good about some of the progress that I had made in, first in my first site and in this site. In this site, I was pretty far pregnant. And then I had a baby. So it was, I was scattered. I had more to take care of than just being a Peace Corps volunteer. But I felt really good about I had learned to make adobe blocks and I built a lot of latrines for people.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And I felt I felt really good about that because here the people were just going potty in the corn fields. And I mean, the water they were drinking was so awful in this our last site. And I felt really good about that project. I felt good about working with the women and trying to teach them some things about just basic health and sanitation and boiling your water. So in the first site with the school lunches and going out to all those schools, I had some satisfaction there in setting up some hot lunch programs for children.

[Assistant] During your two years, generally, you've already characterized the role that Peace Corps staff played, which for the most part was supportive, other than the initial business of separating you and Mike in assignment. What were your plans as you came near the end of your tour?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so he felt very good about that. I felt good about some of the progress that I had made in, first in my first site and in this site. In this site, I was pretty far pregnant. And then I had a baby. So it was, I was scattered. I had more to take care of than just being a Peace Corps volunteer. But I felt really good about I had learned to make adobe blocks and I built a lot of latrines for people.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] And I felt I felt really good about that because here the people were just going potty in the corn fields. And I mean, the water they were drinking was so awful in this our last site. And I felt really good about that project. I felt good about working with the women and trying to teach them some things about just basic health and sanitation and boiling your water. So in the first site with the school lunches and going out to all those schools, I had some satisfaction there in setting up some hot lunch programs for children.

[Assistant] During your two years, generally, you've already characterized the role that Peace Corps staff played, which for the most part was supportive, other than the initial business of separating you and Mike in assignment. What were your plans as you came near the end of your tour?

[User] Um, what were my? Well, we knew that Mike. We knew that Mike wanted to go back to school and get a graduate degree. We both decided that we loved. We both decided that we loved, um, we loved living and working in other countries. And that was our goal was to get back into other countries. We were both very saddened by the lack of Spanish skills of many of the American government people workers in the city of Guatemala. Nobody seemed to know how to speak Spanish. They were in charge of this, that, and the other thing. And they couldn't even speak Spanish. And a lot of our volunteers in our group felt that way as did we.

[Assistant] Did you have much contact with the American community in Guatemala City?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I felt I felt really good about that because here the people were just going potty in the corn fields. And I mean, the water they were drinking was so awful in this our last site. And I felt really good about that project. I felt good about working with the women and trying to teach them some things about just basic health and sanitation and boiling your water. So in the first site with the school lunches and going out to all those schools, I had some satisfaction there in setting up some hot lunch programs for children.

[Assistant] During your two years, generally, you've already characterized the role that Peace Corps staff played, which for the most part was supportive, other than the initial business of separating you and Mike in assignment. What were your plans as you came near the end of your tour?

[User] Um, what were my? Well, we knew that Mike. We knew that Mike wanted to go back to school and get a graduate degree. We both decided that we loved. We both decided that we loved, um, we loved living and working in other countries. And that was our goal was to get back into other countries. We were both very saddened by the lack of Spanish skills of many of the American government people workers in the city of Guatemala. Nobody seemed to know how to speak Spanish. They were in charge of this, that, and the other thing. And they couldn't even speak Spanish. And a lot of our volunteers in our group felt that way as did we.

[Assistant] Did you have much contact with the American community in Guatemala City?

[User] Um. Some people, yeah, some people were really nice. Like on Thanksgiving. There were some, some families that would invite Peace Corps volunteers to their home to have a Thanksgiving dinner. So we had some there. There were a couple of fun American owned restaurants that when we felt rich, we'd go into Guatemala City to this nice restaurant and meet a couple of our other friends who'd come in there and gather together.

[Assistant] Did the ambassador's wife have a baby shower for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, what were my? Well, we knew that Mike. We knew that Mike wanted to go back to school and get a graduate degree. We both decided that we loved. We both decided that we loved, um, we loved living and working in other countries. And that was our goal was to get back into other countries. We were both very saddened by the lack of Spanish skills of many of the American government people workers in the city of Guatemala. Nobody seemed to know how to speak Spanish. They were in charge of this, that, and the other thing. And they couldn't even speak Spanish. And a lot of our volunteers in our group felt that way as did we.

[Assistant] Did you have much contact with the American community in Guatemala City?

[User] Um. Some people, yeah, some people were really nice. Like on Thanksgiving. There were some, some families that would invite Peace Corps volunteers to their home to have a Thanksgiving dinner. So we had some there. There were a couple of fun American owned restaurants that when we felt rich, we'd go into Guatemala City to this nice restaurant and meet a couple of our other friends who'd come in there and gather together.

[Assistant] Did the ambassador's wife have a baby shower for you?

[User] No. Certainly didn't. Nobody had a baby shower for me.

[Assistant] Was she even aware, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. Some people, yeah, some people were really nice. Like on Thanksgiving. There were some, some families that would invite Peace Corps volunteers to their home to have a Thanksgiving dinner. So we had some there. There were a couple of fun American owned restaurants that when we felt rich, we'd go into Guatemala City to this nice restaurant and meet a couple of our other friends who'd come in there and gather together.

[Assistant] Did the ambassador's wife have a baby shower for you?

[User] No. Certainly didn't. Nobody had a baby shower for me.

[Assistant] Was she even aware, I mean?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] Was the official community aware that you were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] Was the official community aware that you were?

[User] I don't recall anything ever being done. I, I didn't, you know, my pregnant clothes consisted of a couple of things that I bought when I was in New Orleans. And our Peace Corps skirts, the dungarees skirts, opened as wide as possible with a big safety pin.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So, no, I don't remember anybody really helping me very much.

[Assistant] So coming to the end of your tour.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't recall anything ever being done. I, I didn't, you know, my pregnant clothes consisted of a couple of things that I bought when I was in New Orleans. And our Peace Corps skirts, the dungarees skirts, opened as wide as possible with a big safety pin.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So, no, I don't remember anybody really helping me very much.

[Assistant] So coming to the end of your tour.

[User] It was a difficult, it was a very difficult delivery. I was, I was very sick for a while. So it was very difficult in the beginning.

[Assistant] But this almost carried to the end of the second year then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, no, I don't remember anybody really helping me very much.

[Assistant] So coming to the end of your tour.

[User] It was a difficult, it was a very difficult delivery. I was, I was very sick for a while. So it was very difficult in the beginning.

[Assistant] But this almost carried to the end of the second year then.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So at the end of the second year, you're ready to terminate as volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what was the next step?

[User] When we left Guatemala, we left in August of '65, and we had to go through some sort of an exit, an exit interview. I believe that's where we took the GSF. GS, G?

[Assistant] FSR? The Foreign Service?

[User] Language. I think we took that again.

[Assistant] That's very, very possible.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When we left Guatemala, we left in August of '65, and we had to go through some sort of an exit, an exit interview. I believe that's where we took the GSF. GS, G?

[Assistant] FSR? The Foreign Service?

[User] Language. I think we took that again.

[Assistant] That's very, very possible.

[User] But I'm not positive on that. Okay. So yeah. And had some sort of an exit interview and left came back to the States and Mike had applied to graduate school in Worcester, Massachusetts.

[Assistant] Was there a termination conference where you all, the training group, all got together before you left?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Language. I think we took that again.

[Assistant] That's very, very possible.

[User] But I'm not positive on that. Okay. So yeah. And had some sort of an exit interview and left came back to the States and Mike had applied to graduate school in Worcester, Massachusetts.

[Assistant] Was there a termination conference where you all, the training group, all got together before you left?

[User] We all went on the same plane home.

[Assistant] You did? Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I'm not positive on that. Okay. So yeah. And had some sort of an exit interview and left came back to the States and Mike had applied to graduate school in Worcester, Massachusetts.

[Assistant] Was there a termination conference where you all, the training group, all got together before you left?

[User] We all went on the same plane home.

[Assistant] You did? Okay.

[User] Except those of us who stayed. A couple extended for a year. A couple got married to Guatemalans, and several people had not made it through the two years. They had left.

[Assistant] As you were leaving, was there any thought that you're trying to extend for a third year? How old was Chris at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We all went on the same plane home.

[Assistant] You did? Okay.

[User] Except those of us who stayed. A couple extended for a year. A couple got married to Guatemalans, and several people had not made it through the two years. They had left.

[Assistant] As you were leaving, was there any thought that you're trying to extend for a third year? How old was Chris at that point?

[User] No. Chris was nine months old. Eight and a half months old. No, we didn't want to. Mike realized now that he wanted to get into some sort of foreign service work. He wanted to go back and get some more degrees and come back. We both decided our goal was to get back to Latin America. So we wanted to get on and get home and get started.

[Assistant] Yeah. And what kind of reception when you came home from the family and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Except those of us who stayed. A couple extended for a year. A couple got married to Guatemalans, and several people had not made it through the two years. They had left.

[Assistant] As you were leaving, was there any thought that you're trying to extend for a third year? How old was Chris at that point?

[User] No. Chris was nine months old. Eight and a half months old. No, we didn't want to. Mike realized now that he wanted to get into some sort of foreign service work. He wanted to go back and get some more degrees and come back. We both decided our goal was to get back to Latin America. So we wanted to get on and get home and get started.

[Assistant] Yeah. And what kind of reception when you came home from the family and?

[User] Well, um, everybody was happy to see us.

[Assistant] What was your own sense of yourself? I mean, well, innocent from Penn State to going into the Peace Corps now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Chris was nine months old. Eight and a half months old. No, we didn't want to. Mike realized now that he wanted to get into some sort of foreign service work. He wanted to go back and get some more degrees and come back. We both decided our goal was to get back to Latin America. So we wanted to get on and get home and get started.

[Assistant] Yeah. And what kind of reception when you came home from the family and?

[User] Well, um, everybody was happy to see us.

[Assistant] What was your own sense of yourself? I mean, well, innocent from Penn State to going into the Peace Corps now.

[User] And coming back a mother.

[Assistant] Two years later, mother, child, with all these experiences. Did you have any feeling about what it had been, what it meant?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I loved Peace Corps. I loved my experience. So we signed up to be speakers, so we would go around to different places when they were looking for speakers to talk about.

[Assistant] Recruiters?

[User] About, no, to groups of people, not recruiters. When I remember going one time to a holiday and there was a group of people there, they wanted to hear about Peace Corps and Peace Corps experiences. And I remember the marquee said, Welcome, Mike and Betsy.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] So we did, we did a bit of that for a while, talking to groups of people, and that felt very good. We wanted to share our story. We wanted to share our experience. It was such a, you know, it was such a great experience for both of us. It was certainly different than how we had anticipated. I certainly didn't expect to come home with a baby, but I did. And it was, it was just kind of a really neat experience.

[Assistant] And I believe you had continuing involvement in Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About, no, to groups of people, not recruiters. When I remember going one time to a holiday and there was a group of people there, they wanted to hear about Peace Corps and Peace Corps experiences. And I remember the marquee said, Welcome, Mike and Betsy.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] So we did, we did a bit of that for a while, talking to groups of people, and that felt very good. We wanted to share our story. We wanted to share our experience. It was such a, you know, it was such a great experience for both of us. It was certainly different than how we had anticipated. I certainly didn't expect to come home with a baby, but I did. And it was, it was just kind of a really neat experience.

[Assistant] And I believe you had continuing involvement in Guatemala?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Through the years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Through the years.

[User] Uh huh. Yeah. And we went back for the first time.

[Assistant] We being?

[User] Mike and myself, from, we lived. After he got his degrees, we then went back to live in South America. One year in Bogota, Colombia, and five years in Quito, Ecuador. And we returned to Guatemala.

[Assistant] Your main role was mother and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh. Yeah. And we went back for the first time.

[Assistant] We being?

[User] Mike and myself, from, we lived. After he got his degrees, we then went back to live in South America. One year in Bogota, Colombia, and five years in Quito, Ecuador. And we returned to Guatemala.

[Assistant] Your main role was mother and?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You were working too?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mike and myself, from, we lived. After he got his degrees, we then went back to live in South America. One year in Bogota, Colombia, and five years in Quito, Ecuador. And we returned to Guatemala.

[Assistant] Your main role was mother and?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You were working too?

[User] Yeah, I was working also in Bogota, Colombia. We still had just the one son, Chris, who was now five. And I was a teacher in the English school. I was a PE teacher to high school girls in the English school outside of Bogota, Colombia. And in Quito, Ecuador, when we moved to there, we then had two, three children. Right? Oh, that's right. And in Bogota, Colombia, I had two. That's right. Oh, sorry. I forgot Eric was born then. And then we went to Quito, we had three. So we had three sons. And I was running a cooperative nursery school for expat children, two, three, and four years old, where the all the mothers helped. We all ran it and I kind of directed it.

[Assistant] Did you maintain your fluency in Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You were working too?

[User] Yeah, I was working also in Bogota, Colombia. We still had just the one son, Chris, who was now five. And I was a teacher in the English school. I was a PE teacher to high school girls in the English school outside of Bogota, Colombia. And in Quito, Ecuador, when we moved to there, we then had two, three children. Right? Oh, that's right. And in Bogota, Colombia, I had two. That's right. Oh, sorry. I forgot Eric was born then. And then we went to Quito, we had three. So we had three sons. And I was running a cooperative nursery school for expat children, two, three, and four years old, where the all the mothers helped. We all ran it and I kind of directed it.

[Assistant] Did you maintain your fluency in Spanish?

[User] Yeah, because we were living in Ecuador and Colombia, yeah. We continued speaking Spanish for a lot of years. And then I managed a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, which was a really fun year.

[Assistant] During these seven, eight years after, were you able to maintain contact with people in Guatemala?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was working also in Bogota, Colombia. We still had just the one son, Chris, who was now five. And I was a teacher in the English school. I was a PE teacher to high school girls in the English school outside of Bogota, Colombia. And in Quito, Ecuador, when we moved to there, we then had two, three children. Right? Oh, that's right. And in Bogota, Colombia, I had two. That's right. Oh, sorry. I forgot Eric was born then. And then we went to Quito, we had three. So we had three sons. And I was running a cooperative nursery school for expat children, two, three, and four years old, where the all the mothers helped. We all ran it and I kind of directed it.

[Assistant] Did you maintain your fluency in Spanish?

[User] Yeah, because we were living in Ecuador and Colombia, yeah. We continued speaking Spanish for a lot of years. And then I managed a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, which was a really fun year.

[Assistant] During these seven, eight years after, were you able to maintain contact with people in Guatemala?

[User] No. Very little. As I said, we returned to Guatemala in, we left there in 1965. We returned in 1974 from Quito, Ecuador, because we came to the States and bought a vehicle and decided to drive it down to Ecuador. So we left our kids with some friends and came up and drove back to Ecuador, stopping in Guatemala, going to our village. And we stopped there and people were thrilled to see us. They remembered us. Don Mikey, Dona Betsy. They call him Don Miley and me Dona Betsy. Oh, come look at our chicken projects. The chickens are still doing the chicken projects. Come look at the electricity that we now have in our houses. Come look at our running water. So they remembered so well how those projects started.

[Assistant] Had the political trouble started by then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, because we were living in Ecuador and Colombia, yeah. We continued speaking Spanish for a lot of years. And then I managed a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, which was a really fun year.

[Assistant] During these seven, eight years after, were you able to maintain contact with people in Guatemala?

[User] No. Very little. As I said, we returned to Guatemala in, we left there in 1965. We returned in 1974 from Quito, Ecuador, because we came to the States and bought a vehicle and decided to drive it down to Ecuador. So we left our kids with some friends and came up and drove back to Ecuador, stopping in Guatemala, going to our village. And we stopped there and people were thrilled to see us. They remembered us. Don Mikey, Dona Betsy. They call him Don Miley and me Dona Betsy. Oh, come look at our chicken projects. The chickens are still doing the chicken projects. Come look at the electricity that we now have in our houses. Come look at our running water. So they remembered so well how those projects started.

[Assistant] Had the political trouble started by then?

[User] Oh, yes, the political trouble started in the sixties. It started before we left in 1965.

[Assistant] What was your awareness?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Very little. As I said, we returned to Guatemala in, we left there in 1965. We returned in 1974 from Quito, Ecuador, because we came to the States and bought a vehicle and decided to drive it down to Ecuador. So we left our kids with some friends and came up and drove back to Ecuador, stopping in Guatemala, going to our village. And we stopped there and people were thrilled to see us. They remembered us. Don Mikey, Dona Betsy. They call him Don Miley and me Dona Betsy. Oh, come look at our chicken projects. The chickens are still doing the chicken projects. Come look at the electricity that we now have in our houses. Come look at our running water. So they remembered so well how those projects started.

[Assistant] Had the political trouble started by then?

[User] Oh, yes, the political trouble started in the sixties. It started before we left in 1965.

[Assistant] What was your awareness?

[User] Very little awareness of it. We were told just to be careful when we were in Guatemala City. But it was very minimal. It was just starting in the sixties. But we were told to be careful. And I remember there were always, everywhere, all over the place, there were always these young military people with their, you know, AK-47 type of gun standing on every corner. This was in the sixties.

[Assistant] Any incidents you encountered?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, the political trouble started in the sixties. It started before we left in 1965.

[Assistant] What was your awareness?

[User] Very little awareness of it. We were told just to be careful when we were in Guatemala City. But it was very minimal. It was just starting in the sixties. But we were told to be careful. And I remember there were always, everywhere, all over the place, there were always these young military people with their, you know, AK-47 type of gun standing on every corner. This was in the sixties.

[Assistant] Any incidents you encountered?

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] Any particular anti-American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very little awareness of it. We were told just to be careful when we were in Guatemala City. But it was very minimal. It was just starting in the sixties. But we were told to be careful. And I remember there were always, everywhere, all over the place, there were always these young military people with their, you know, AK-47 type of gun standing on every corner. This was in the sixties.

[Assistant] Any incidents you encountered?

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] Any particular anti-American?

[User] No.

[Assistant] At least not in the village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] Any particular anti-American?

[User] No.

[Assistant] At least not in the village?

[User] Not in the villages, not in Guatemala City, no.

[Assistant] So you had a chance to visit back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] At least not in the village?

[User] Not in the villages, not in Guatemala City, no.

[Assistant] So you had a chance to visit back?

[User] Yes. A visit back.

[Assistant] Any further involvement in Guatemala beyond that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Still redheaded, and his younger brother was redheaded also. And then she met the two other brothers and was just, was just thrilled.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We walked back. [tape break] Very old by now. He was older. She was 83. Don Rafa, who had been one of the people in the betterment committee, was probably about 85 by now. He remembered me, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy. I mean, it was absolutely amazing to return so many years later. And the little girl, Anna Banana, who had been six years old when Mike and I left the village so long ago in 1965. Anna Banana saw me and she said, Dona Betsy. And she was now a woman of 40 years old. And she came running down the street and jumped into my arms, almost knocking me over. And she goes, I'm Anna, I'm Anna Banana! And I go, Anna Banana!

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So it was, it was thrilling to see that people were still in their same houses and many people were doing okay.

[Assistant] Did any of your children think of joining the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We walked back. [tape break] Very old by now. He was older. She was 83. Don Rafa, who had been one of the people in the betterment committee, was probably about 85 by now. He remembered me, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy. I mean, it was absolutely amazing to return so many years later. And the little girl, Anna Banana, who had been six years old when Mike and I left the village so long ago in 1965. Anna Banana saw me and she said, Dona Betsy. And she was now a woman of 40 years old. And she came running down the street and jumped into my arms, almost knocking me over. And she goes, I'm Anna, I'm Anna Banana! And I go, Anna Banana!

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So it was, it was thrilling to see that people were still in their same houses and many people were doing okay.

[Assistant] Did any of your children think of joining the Peace Corps?

[User] No, they didn't. Both their parents, I can't imagine why they didn't. Well, the one, the one son, the oldest son, chose to go back to Guatemala and is living, is living there.

[Assistant] Uh, that's pretty much it, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about the Peace Corps experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was, it was thrilling to see that people were still in their same houses and many people were doing okay.

[Assistant] Did any of your children think of joining the Peace Corps?

[User] No, they didn't. Both their parents, I can't imagine why they didn't. Well, the one, the one son, the oldest son, chose to go back to Guatemala and is living, is living there.

[Assistant] Uh, that's pretty much it, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about the Peace Corps experience.

[User] I would just, I would just like to mention that Peace Corps had a very profound impact on my life. And since Peace Corps, I have traveled to over 100 countries, over 60 of them on my bicycle. I have put together probably at least 50 slide presentations and for the last 20 years have educated students in the middle school where I teach about the world. So I feel that I have been doing a really excellent job of bringing the world back home, which was the third goal of the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yes, very much so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they didn't. Both their parents, I can't imagine why they didn't. Well, the one, the one son, the oldest son, chose to go back to Guatemala and is living, is living there.

[Assistant] Uh, that's pretty much it, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about the Peace Corps experience.

[User] I would just, I would just like to mention that Peace Corps had a very profound impact on my life. And since Peace Corps, I have traveled to over 100 countries, over 60 of them on my bicycle. I have put together probably at least 50 slide presentations and for the last 20 years have educated students in the middle school where I teach about the world. So I feel that I have been doing a really excellent job of bringing the world back home, which was the third goal of the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yes, very much so.

[User] As a matter of fact, I won an award for the United States and Canada, for North America, for being a global teacher. And my award was I was allowed to choose six students and take them anywhere in the world that I wanted to take them for ten days, total paid. And so I chose six, five migrant students and one not migrant student, because I always worked with migrant kids. Had a huge contest at my school. They were all eighth graders, and took them to Spain, where Spanish is the number one language, not a second language. And we had an incredible trip.

[Assistant] That's great. That's great. That's a wonderful place to stop.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I actually thought I'd be going to Africa, so I think I listed that as first preference. But my first offer was to Belize, which is just across the Gulf of Mexico. They wanted me to run a drafting department since I'd never even worked in a drafting department. I wasn't too qualified for that. But my father also said, if you're going to go, go far away. And so the next offer, they came up with Fiji and that was a hard offer to turn down.

[Assistant] Did you know much about Fiji before you went?

[User] I didn't know anything about it. I didn't even know where it was, unlike today with the Fiji water. But that's a whole other issue. And we drank local water out of the creeks mixed with the special stuff called yanqona or kava, which will kill anything in it. And I drank that for two years and have a hardened stomach.

[Assistant] So you applied and you get this invitation to go to Fiji. What did your, what kind of reaction did you get from your friends and family? What do they think about you going into the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, I'm pretty sure, well, my parents were supportive. My father being in the military, he encouraged me to join the Peace Corps. Interesting point is that the military and the Peace Corps have the same mission. It's peace, just different ways of achieving it. So he encouraged me to go and dropped me off at the airport with my guitar slung over my shoulder and my cowboy hat. I’m sure I was a spectacle to the people in Fiji when I arrived.

[Assistant] Did you have any kind of training before taking off or where did you guys do your training?