{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00926:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 37.8734464660687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did, when we’d actually have to mail those up to the ILC. Not much, but some of the things. They’d say hey, can you draw this out, and we’ll send it up, with some Polaroids or whatever else they had. But not a whole lot. Then when we started working over at what was ILC Space Systems for a while, I worked over there. We were actually doing some drawings of different pieces of hardware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone else have a question?\n\nAre you still doing watercolor, or are you using other mediums on your paintings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m doing watercolors. I just got back. I did a couple pieces in acrylic. Then this I worked on over the weekend, so it’s stage four of that one. That’s the second time I sanded it. I started over because I found my reference material when I took that in the Smithsonian [National Air and Space Museum, Washington, D.C.] at the [Paul E.] Garber [Preservation, Restoration, and Storage] Facility. That’s the way [Charles C.] Pete Conrad’s suit was. Amanda Young had pulled it back so we could take a look at it. I just thought wow, suits that you worked on many years ago. That’s his suit number 614 Skylab suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s oils, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is oils, yes. So I’m working in all three of them. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you’re going through insertion on the day of launch, I know the time is very structured and it’s very tight, and you rehearse over and over and train. Is the conversation very structured or is there any levity? Is there some chit-chat?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00926:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.621165167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim [James A.] Lovell. I think Dave [David R.] Scott on [Apollo] 15. I don’t remember. Owen [K.] Garriott. But then of course after when you’re doing the Skylab, all the things that you used to do over in the Flight Crew Training Building, all that went away except for the command module simulation. They can go over to train. One other thing. Some of the guys when they came out of the MOL program, Frank Hernandez and Troy Stewart and Byron Smith. Byron was a real jokester. He was underneath the trainer, and we had a way we could do pressurization and liquid cooling. So he waves me over and he had cut off CDR water. He said, “I got to go out for a minute. Here. Watch this.”\\n\\n I didn’t look at the flow meters or ask him even. I just knew they weren’t pressurized. So I put the headphones on and couple minutes later it’s like “Suit tech.”\\n\\n “Go ahead.”\\n\\n “Who told you to cut the water off?”\\n\\n “Don’t know what happened, sir. It’s back on, sir.”\\n\\n “I’ll tell you when to cut the water off, damn it, listen to me.” You could see Byron over there laughing. Gotcha. He was good when you had the suit pressurized to like eight psi, to come behind you with one of the surgical pans that we used to clean hardware in and just drop it behind you. You want to tear the console down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure you never played any pranks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, absolutely not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t want to confess any, that’s it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ron, I would like to know who was the most influential person in your life and why."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00926:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.80129463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, absolutely not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t want to confess any, that’s it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ron, I would like to know who was the most influential person in your life and why."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my mom, because she’s the one that told me about the job out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taught you to sew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00926:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.2236607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ron, I would like to know who was the most influential person in your life and why."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my mom, because she’s the one that told me about the job out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And taught you to sew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Taught me to sew, yes. But no, I just look at everybody that I’ve ever known. It’s really been an honor to work out here, but just the people themselves over the years. It’s just tremendous. To see different faces come into the flight crew area down there on a fact finding mission, or looking at their hardware and knowing that hey, if you ever need anything we’re here. Call us and we’ll help you out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we’ve gone through the suit evolution, I didn’t get a chance to ask you about the impact on your team after the [Space Shuttle] Challenger accident [STS 51-L]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00208:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 55.88830577846339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After I got out of Georgia Tech, I received an offer from NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics], but I wanted to work for an aircraft company. I went to work for Douglas Aircraft Company. But then they wanted me to come and be at Langley field. They wanted me to come and be with NACA. I was getting drafted and I was going to be put on duty with the Army Air Corps. They wanted to assign me to Langley. So that's how I ended up, because of the military, being drafted and put on duty at NACA Langley. I worked there for over two years, two years and ten months, something like that before I was discharged. The war was over by then. I was discharged. I worked on airplanes, propellers, and various airplanes to make them faster for the war effort and so forth.\\n\\n Then after my discharge, I thought I was going back to Douglas Aircraft Company and I received an offer to come back, but I was pretty much involved with the work. I had pretty much become a citizen of Virginia, and I stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the reason why you stayed, because you enjoyed Virginia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed the work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things did you perform? What types of things did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a flight test engineer. I was an aeronautical research engineer doing flight test work on propulsion aerodynamics. I got involved with making airplanes go faster. In those days, the way you make airplanes go faster is a combination. The propulsion system has a lot to do with it. I designed a series of transonic and supersonic propellers. I had a test vehicle that was a jet, turbojet penetration airplane, and we mounted a turboprop engine in the nose so we could test the propellers that we designed on this in free flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of plane is this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00208:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 52.09811753162599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed the work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things did you perform? What types of things did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a flight test engineer. I was an aeronautical research engineer doing flight test work on propulsion aerodynamics. I got involved with making airplanes go faster. In those days, the way you make airplanes go faster is a combination. The propulsion system has a lot to do with it. I designed a series of transonic and supersonic propellers. I had a test vehicle that was a jet, turbojet penetration airplane, and we mounted a turboprop engine in the nose so we could test the propellers that we designed on this in free flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of plane is this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a McDonnell F-88. McDonnell F-88. It was built in St. Louis. Only two were built, and we got both of them. We used one for spare parts. This plane went on to become an attack, a penetration fighter for the Air Force, but it got bigger. It was called F-101 then, but the name of it, Voodoo, stuck. It was the F-88 Voodoo. This is called the XF-88B, and with this plane we were able to test propellers in free flight up to Mach numbers 1.1, and we were able to show that propellers could be just as efficient, if designed properly, at those speeds as they were subsonic, and turbojets were very inefficient, very inefficient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How are they more inefficient?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00208:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 69.52381502078947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That became the Mercury Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly did you do throughout the Mercury Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, starting out, it was obvious that we needed to find out something about it. And lo and behold— [Referring to documentation] This was written October 13, 1958, how we could bring it out of a C-130 and how we could measure its characteristics as it came down. So I did. We got a boilerplate capsule and I designed the parachute recovery system. We took it down to Fort Bragg. I painted the capsule olive drab in case we had any problems, so it wouldn't look like a NASA thing. But it came out and it worked fine.\\n\\n Pretty soon, the program was accepted, as you know, and they renamed it Project Mercury. We had a group of people that started working on it. As I say, I had gotten involved with that. So they decided to get some people together to pursue the project, and the Center director put together the people, thirty-five or thirty-six people that started what some called the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask you what these memos that you are showing me exactly are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This memo here is my proposal for doing a gravity drop of the satellite to see what its landing characteristics were, the operation of the parachute, to test out the system. Because the landing phase of anything, as you know, is very important, the landing phase of an airplane. It would be to check out the capsule parachute activating system, to measure the dynamics of the landing, to see how that worked in the final phase of the flight, because although the problem is to launch it up into space, you've got to bring it back down. And if we're going to put a man in it, you're going to have to have that all worked out. So that was the purpose of these tests. Those were the things that I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you find was the most challenging throughout this program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00208:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 47.58205638109516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like it was Gemini VIII. Maybe it was Gemini VIII, because in Gemini VIII is when we had the problem with the thrusters and they thought it was the Agena because it was new, and it was the thrusters on the spacecraft. They undocked with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you feel when you heard about those problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't think it was the Agena. I was in the control center at the time, and I knew the Agena wouldn't do that. I knew it wasn't that. It was the thrusters on the spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that time you said you had just moved out to Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'd moved out to Houston a little bit earlier than that, in the beginning of the Gemini Program. In fact, as I took the astronauts, we chartered an airplane and we took the astronauts all around on tour of all of the facilities where all of the Agena stuff was being built: Aerojet in Sacramento [California], the engines for the Agena out at Sunnyvale [California], and the Atlas down at San Diego [California]. We had a good time traveling all around together. And they moved out.\\n\\n It was kind of a tough thing. I had just put in a new air-conditioning system in my house, and not many people had central air-conditioning then. I put in a new system and all, and when I tried to sell my house, there was five inches of snow on the ground in Virginia. I told the guy about it, and he said, \"I don't care about air-conditioning!\"\\n\\n Anyway, we all moved down here. There was a development coming up about the time we all moved down. I moved down to be reasonably close to a friend of mine. A lot of the astronauts settled in that same little subdivision over here, the one they call Timber Cove. Gus was across the street from me, Wally was over here, and John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] was over here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I used to live in Timber Cove with my grandparents."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.68410795180216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, things were so fast, and while Apollo 8 was going on, of course, we were turning out the planning products for other Apollo missions, the follow-on missions. After Apollo 8, we were concentrating on additional things like the lunar rendezvous capability."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to use some of the first work that you worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The early rendezvous work was only of historical interest. That document was sort of recognized by a few of the rendezvous people, but that was like, “Oh, that was done way back when, you know, so that’s trivia.” It was of interest though in that all of the computations were done on the Friden—prior to computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a few years, but yet. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot had happened in those years, hadn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 39.649008835335735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The early rendezvous work was only of historical interest. That document was sort of recognized by a few of the rendezvous people, but that was like, “Oh, that was done way back when, you know, so that’s trivia.” It was of interest though in that all of the computations were done on the Friden—prior to computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a few years, but yet. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot had happened in those years, hadn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, of course, the work done at Langley was Earth orbit trajectory analysis, and it was very simplistic, in terms of accuracy of computation, because there was no atmospheric model or anything like that. It was really conceptual and had to do with the later phase of rendezvous trajectories to a Space Station. But I looked at that TN not too long ago, and it was sort of interesting to read in the context of the 1960 publication date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much information were you able to use from the Mercury and Gemini flights to apply to what you were going to do for Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 41.832232039261925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot had happened in those years, hadn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, of course, the work done at Langley was Earth orbit trajectory analysis, and it was very simplistic, in terms of accuracy of computation, because there was no atmospheric model or anything like that. It was really conceptual and had to do with the later phase of rendezvous trajectories to a Space Station. But I looked at that TN not too long ago, and it was sort of interesting to read in the context of the 1960 publication date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much information were you able to use from the Mercury and Gemini flights to apply to what you were going to do for Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A tremendous amount of technology was transferred from the early programs into the Apollo mission planning tools. Earth models, atmosphere models, rendezvous planning and analysis tools, etc., were fed directly into the Apollo planning tools. And of course there was a direct transfer of knowledge and experience into the lunar trajectory section.\\n\\n Something that was very complex, even complex today is to represent the upper atmosphere density, and how that influences the orbit of a spacecraft in low Earth orbit. Ed Lineberry and Sam Wilson (and others) developed analytic models to represent the atmospheric density in a simplistic model to avoid extensive integration.\\n\\n The Gemini rendezvous techniques were used and the orbital/flight data from the actual vehicles were used to test our modeling (e.g., the Earth’s oblateness). We used things like radiation profiles to get the Van Allen [Radiation] Belt better represented, and of course, the atmospheric density. Then up around the Moon, we took the flight data and improved the math model of the Moon to get things like what they called MassCons, which were mass concentrations that perturbed the lunar orbit. But postflight analysis was always done to perfect the mathematical models."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about those fast days, that were really years, between Apollo 8 and Apollo 11, and how you and your group took that data and applied it to prepare for Apollo 11."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.425543078652034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, it was infinitely gratifying, but from a collective perspective. In other words, it wasn’t as much a matter of personal accomplishment as it was an Agency accomplishment. It was just extremely gratifying that the whole thing came off, and of course, a great deal of pride.\\n\\n But looking back on it, certainly for me it is hard to even think in terms of personal accomplishment, because it was such a group activity, and you had such phenomenal leadership. Now, somebody like Glynn Lunney and Chris Kraft and [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg and Bill Tindall and John Mayer, if he were here, and Carl Huss, well, I think they could look back on it and almost say, “This was partly because of me.”\\n\\n But somebody at my level, even though I had unique expertise, I am sure that had I not been there, somebody else would have done it. It was that sort of thing. But, I have other friends my age that have had other careers, and there’s probably nothing comparable with the early days of the space program, in terms of a real opportunity to do something interesting and unique and pioneering. It really was a tremendously gratifying experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A different type of reward for the agency and your family, other than the Apollo landing, was, of course, the recovery of Apollo 13 and bringing that crew—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us what your involvement was with that rescue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we can do that. Can we take a break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can.\\n\\n [pause]\n\n—Apollo 13. Were you ready to move on to there, or was there anything that you want to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 51.14264577611362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we can do that. Can we take a break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can.\\n\\n [pause]\n\n—Apollo 13. Were you ready to move on to there, or was there anything that you want to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, one thing, we do have to go all the way back to Langley after a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hadn’t talked about the MPAD parties yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. We’ve got to talk about that. I’ll make myself a note."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 55.714050862348465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, one thing, we do have to go all the way back to Langley after a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hadn’t talked about the MPAD parties yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. We’ve got to talk about that. I’ll make myself a note."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo 13, the entire Agency was of course involved in that. As soon as there was an indication there was a problem, the back room activity got very, very intense. All of the “what if” type considerations and concerns required analysts to do trajectory computations including when should you do a midcourse correction, what type midcourse correction, and what systems would be utilized for it and all that sort of thing.\\n\\n Obviously the center of gravity for that activity was in the Control Center. That’s where the decisions were made, and that’s where our management basically was. But the back room activity was intense—that’s where the “what-if” computations were done. That information was fed to the managers who were asking the questions, “What if you did such and such at such and such a time?”\\n\\n Generally that would require a lot of activity and a lot of computation to answer those questions, so that was an intense time and a very active time for everybody involved, because there were analysts all over the country. Especially the systems people, the hardware people themselves were working to see, well, what system had failed and exactly how did it fail and how did that jeopardize an adjacent system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you constantly being asked for inputs, or was there a certain time in the recovery activities that your group became more vital to bringing the crew back home?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.020221996381007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For some of the select payloads, the security measures were very constraining. All the local meetings were held in a little vault room that was specially shielded and equipped over in Building 1. You went in behind a secure lock, and you couldn’t take any notes, or you could take notes, but they had to be left in the room. You couldn’t take any information out, and of course, you couldn’t discuss it with anybody. That created some awkward situations with our relationship with our managers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During those days you spent planning, did you get involved at all in the early days of the station planning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only with the development of the integrated planning system, but not in the launch planning, or the assembly. I did do some assembly sequence evaluation but never really got into nominal mission planning. But I was following all the planning activity to see what the requirements imposed on the Integrated Planning System, the software that was being developed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that prior to launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you worked on anything regarding the station since it’s launched or been a part of any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.244691107090006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only with the development of the integrated planning system, but not in the launch planning, or the assembly. I did do some assembly sequence evaluation but never really got into nominal mission planning. But I was following all the planning activity to see what the requirements imposed on the Integrated Planning System, the software that was being developed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that prior to launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you worked on anything regarding the station since it’s launched or been a part of any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to any extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have mentioned off and on during the session about the computers and how they changed. At what point did NASA start to have enough computer power to do the work that they needed, where you weren’t having to go down to the University of Houston or the Medical Center, to stop using theirs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.4941012301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you worked on anything regarding the station since it’s launched or been a part of any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to any extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have mentioned off and on during the session about the computers and how they changed. At what point did NASA start to have enough computer power to do the work that they needed, where you weren’t having to go down to the University of Houston or the Medical Center, to stop using theirs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that we got computer capability, at least our group didn’t, until we came to MSC [Manned Spacecraft Center] on NASA Road 1, when they built the new building, and that was probably [19]’64. Perhaps the engineering group had a computer prior to the move to MSC. But we really didn’t get the computer capability that we needed until we came down here. I believe that we had the 1620 up at HPC, but all of our work, and especially in the lunar area, HPC was not nearly adequate to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your area impacted by the change of technology, especially in the computer world, over those next years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 32.771223589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to any extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have mentioned off and on during the session about the computers and how they changed. At what point did NASA start to have enough computer power to do the work that they needed, where you weren’t having to go down to the University of Houston or the Medical Center, to stop using theirs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that we got computer capability, at least our group didn’t, until we came to MSC [Manned Spacecraft Center] on NASA Road 1, when they built the new building, and that was probably [19]’64. Perhaps the engineering group had a computer prior to the move to MSC. But we really didn’t get the computer capability that we needed until we came down here. I believe that we had the 1620 up at HPC, but all of our work, and especially in the lunar area, HPC was not nearly adequate to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your area impacted by the change of technology, especially in the computer world, over those next years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was impacted tremendously. It’s still amazing to me. I remember when they got to 128 kilobytes, that we thought that was a lot of memory, and that was probably adequate. And it’s still amazing to me that we could have put a lunar landing program on a 128-kilobyte machine. Of course bigger and faster computers simplified the generation and documentation of planning products tremendously.\\n\\n I remember when—and I don’t know what year that was—the IBM 360 came out, and that was a real big machine. I always thought that a tremendously interesting story would be the history of the computer within NASA, and how we went from one capability to the next and what the impact had on efficiency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other duties were you assigned during your career with NASA that were a bit unique? I believe one that we learned about was that you did some reporting to the International Aéronautique Federation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.861490000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think probably six or seven, something like that. Quite a few."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any other unique assignments that stand out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t believe. Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier you wanted to go back, all the way back to Langley, and we understand your reputation for hosting some parties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, the parties. [Laughs] Yes.\\n\\n Well, I don’t know how the tradition got started, but up at Langley I had a house out on Chesapeake Bay on Windmill Point, and it was a perfect party house. Several months before the Space Task Group moved to Houston we had a big party for the mission planning organization. They all came and we had a real party. That’s how the “tradition” got started, and we continued it through the life of MPAD. We got together several times a year for a good time\\n\\n MPAD was always a very socially active group. In fact, that was probably the outstanding characteristic of the Mission Planning and Analysis Division; it was so much like a family. It still is today. It was dissolved in 1990, but members of the group still get together for MPAD luncheons every two or three months. We usually have about sixty people show up, and that’s pretty good since it has been about fifteen years since the organization was dissolved. Most organizations don’t have that many show up for social events while they’re active.\\n\\n But it seemed that once someone joined the group they seldom left. That was probably true all over NASA. They just stayed and stayed and stayed, so everybody got to know everybody very well, and they got to be like family. Really, a congenial group. That was one thing that made the work interesting. It was always a close team effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have many of your group go back to Virginia after you moved to Houston, some that just didn’t want to work here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps, but I don’t know of many who did. But in the early years employment in the Space Program was such a wonderful opportunity that I doubt many would have given it up unless there were other circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close today, we’d like to ask you just share with us some of your most memorable times. Maybe when you think back on the times that you spent with your NASA family, what are some of your most favorite experiences or memories that you have that you’d share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were of course many. One of the most memorable experiences was Apollo 8. I am not sure exactly why—maybe it was just the circumstances of the day. Of course, for everyone, the first lunar landing was truly incredible. But also the early sub-orbital and orbital flights were exciting too. The unknowns were so overwhelming.\\n\\n Of course the tragedy of the fire was very memorable. That was a horrible thing. It was a reminder of just how vulnerable we really were, and how we could make mistakes. The spacecraft was filled with errors and design flaws. The tragedy was a red flag emphasizing the importance of proper procedures and thorough testing. As bad as it was, it definitely contributed to the success of the Program downstream. Then the Challenger accident was indescribable. That was at such a rough time, anyway. I knew the crew personally. That was just so incredibly shocking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you working or what area were you working with the Challenger, for the Challenger accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved with the STAS activity and was working Shuttle Utilization concept development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the results of that investigation or the Rogers Commission [Presidential Commission to investigate the Challenger accident], did that affect any of the work or the studies that you were working on at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00009:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were of course many. One of the most memorable experiences was Apollo 8. I am not sure exactly why—maybe it was just the circumstances of the day. Of course, for everyone, the first lunar landing was truly incredible. But also the early sub-orbital and orbital flights were exciting too. The unknowns were so overwhelming.\\n\\n Of course the tragedy of the fire was very memorable. That was a horrible thing. It was a reminder of just how vulnerable we really were, and how we could make mistakes. The spacecraft was filled with errors and design flaws. The tragedy was a red flag emphasizing the importance of proper procedures and thorough testing. As bad as it was, it definitely contributed to the success of the Program downstream. Then the Challenger accident was indescribable. That was at such a rough time, anyway. I knew the crew personally. That was just so incredibly shocking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you working or what area were you working with the Challenger, for the Challenger accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was involved with the STAS activity and was working Shuttle Utilization concept development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the results of that investigation or the Rogers Commission [Presidential Commission to investigate the Challenger accident], did that affect any of the work or the studies that you were working on at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only indirectly. It was really so hardware oriented that—of course, it emphasized the fact that everything needed to be checked more carefully, but by that time I think the spirit that was there during Apollo had somehow eroded. There was a totally different environment within NASA. But there was still the NASA family view and feeling. It was such a terrible tragic accident. It was totally devastating to most people that I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you consider to be the most challenging time that you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.037215898894928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a stay-at-home mom doing the volunteer work and that sort of stuff. At that point I still had little kids, but it was, like, okay, maybe I need to start thinking about going back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that involve any school or you knew about the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I knew about it because my husband had done lots of research out here. He was good friends with Alan Perry and Reed Whitaker and Diana Duff. Diana was a student of his. I knew people out here and they said we've got volunteers. We can do preservation. It's not genie work. If you'd like to do it, I think you'd enjoy it. So I started volunteering and then a year and a half later they said would you like to get paid a small pittance for doing what you're doing for free and I said, well, why not. So that started being part-time. Eventually I ended up with a full-time job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year would you say you started volunteering?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was probably in 1987. My 10-year-old was in fifth grade at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about what your impressions were of the agency when you started your career or when you started coming on-site to volunteer and do work with the records?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.041350998772142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I knew about it because my husband had done lots of research out here. He was good friends with Alan Perry and Reed Whitaker and Diana Duff. Diana was a student of his. I knew people out here and they said we've got volunteers. We can do preservation. It's not genie work. If you'd like to do it, I think you'd enjoy it. So I started volunteering and then a year and a half later they said would you like to get paid a small pittance for doing what you're doing for free and I said, well, why not. So that started being part-time. Eventually I ended up with a full-time job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year would you say you started volunteering?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was probably in 1987. My 10-year-old was in fifth grade at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about what your impressions were of the agency when you started your career or when you started coming on-site to volunteer and do work with the records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said I knew some stuff about it—maybe because my husband did research and stuff like that and was also an archivist besides his other real job. I kind of knew, you know, and I thought, okay, a little chance because I had not gone back to school. I talked about it. I had thought about going back into computer science. I just never did. We had the kids and they were small and they did not have a computer science program at U of KC at that time. And so it just kind of, I had done indexing for books—my husband's books and stuff like that. And I did have a history major besides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was a typical day or week for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.712612220857935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was probably in 1987. My 10-year-old was in fifth grade at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about what your impressions were of the agency when you started your career or when you started coming on-site to volunteer and do work with the records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said I knew some stuff about it—maybe because my husband did research and stuff like that and was also an archivist besides his other real job. I kind of knew, you know, and I thought, okay, a little chance because I had not gone back to school. I talked about it. I had thought about going back into computer science. I just never did. We had the kids and they were small and they did not have a computer science program at U of KC at that time. And so it just kind of, I had done indexing for books—my husband's books and stuff like that. And I did have a history major besides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was a typical day or week for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a lot of processing. The early on reference was done completely different than it is now. There was one person in charge of reference and basically did it or might dole something out. She wanted control. I won’t go into that. It was done differently so I didn't do a lot of reference. It was mostly processing out of the FRC boxes, into the Hollinger's. Some of it, the first project was just strictly out of the brown boxes to Hollingers. I was going through the 135's to make sure everything was there. Most of what I've done has—a lot of it was working with the Indian agencies. We've got a lot of BIA records and I think they have finally finished the last processing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, you were co-editor of the Guide to Records at the National Archives at Kansas City?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.569569134286592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said I knew some stuff about it—maybe because my husband did research and stuff like that and was also an archivist besides his other real job. I kind of knew, you know, and I thought, okay, a little chance because I had not gone back to school. I talked about it. I had thought about going back into computer science. I just never did. We had the kids and they were small and they did not have a computer science program at U of KC at that time. And so it just kind of, I had done indexing for books—my husband's books and stuff like that. And I did have a history major besides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was a typical day or week for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a lot of processing. The early on reference was done completely different than it is now. There was one person in charge of reference and basically did it or might dole something out. She wanted control. I won’t go into that. It was done differently so I didn't do a lot of reference. It was mostly processing out of the FRC boxes, into the Hollinger's. Some of it, the first project was just strictly out of the brown boxes to Hollingers. I was going through the 135's to make sure everything was there. Most of what I've done has—a lot of it was working with the Indian agencies. We've got a lot of BIA records and I think they have finally finished the last processing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, you were co-editor of the Guide to Records at the National Archives at Kansas City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an update on the—I got a copy if you would like to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would love to see it."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.410632371429546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a lot of processing. The early on reference was done completely different than it is now. There was one person in charge of reference and basically did it or might dole something out. She wanted control. I won’t go into that. It was done differently so I didn't do a lot of reference. It was mostly processing out of the FRC boxes, into the Hollinger's. Some of it, the first project was just strictly out of the brown boxes to Hollingers. I was going through the 135's to make sure everything was there. Most of what I've done has—a lot of it was working with the Indian agencies. We've got a lot of BIA records and I think they have finally finished the last processing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, you were co-editor of the Guide to Records at the National Archives at Kansas City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an update on the—I got a copy if you would like to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would love to see it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know whether I still had one because back then there was no internet. So this was the finding aid. It was an update and I don't know if you knew Nancy Malan. She was in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was my first boss when I moved to Maryland."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.456258190477275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an update on the—I got a copy if you would like to see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would love to see it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know whether I still had one because back then there was no internet. So this was the finding aid. It was an update and I don't know if you knew Nancy Malan. She was in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was my first boss when I moved to Maryland."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was the lead out of Washington working, I think, with all of the regions on updating your guides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did this take you?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.61806465608586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know whether I still had one because back then there was no internet. So this was the finding aid. It was an update and I don't know if you knew Nancy Malan. She was in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was my first boss when I moved to Maryland."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was the lead out of Washington working, I think, with all of the regions on updating your guides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did this take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were using the old guides. It was basically going through the old guide and checking, you know, do we have additional records? Did we want to change something? Updating the footage. We didn't start from scratch. But if we had new record groups then they had to be added in, and at the time I just helped doing it and Alan ended up sticking my name on it. He didn't ask. I didn't expect it but I thought that was very nice of him. Not everybody would have done that. He said, well, you did most of the work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to write finding aids?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.0200718400954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was the lead out of Washington working, I think, with all of the regions on updating your guides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long did this take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were using the old guides. It was basically going through the old guide and checking, you know, do we have additional records? Did we want to change something? Updating the footage. We didn't start from scratch. But if we had new record groups then they had to be added in, and at the time I just helped doing it and Alan ended up sticking my name on it. He didn't ask. I didn't expect it but I thought that was very nice of him. Not everybody would have done that. He said, well, you did most of the work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to write finding aids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had paper finding aids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do new descriptions?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 26.68896871121711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were using the old guides. It was basically going through the old guide and checking, you know, do we have additional records? Did we want to change something? Updating the footage. We didn't start from scratch. But if we had new record groups then they had to be added in, and at the time I just helped doing it and Alan ended up sticking my name on it. He didn't ask. I didn't expect it but I thought that was very nice of him. Not everybody would have done that. He said, well, you did most of the work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to write finding aids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had paper finding aids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do new descriptions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On some, yes. A lot of it was just rechecking the guide, you know, to have the information that's there. Every region had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Native American records. Any interesting discoveries that you remember or a particular item?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.987743012463458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had paper finding aids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to do new descriptions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On some, yes. A lot of it was just rechecking the guide, you know, to have the information that's there. Every region had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Native American records. Any interesting discoveries that you remember or a particular item?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The student case files were interesting, out of Haskell, because they went way back. Sometimes you found interesting things. I was trying to think, there was an employee and there were letters back and forth from having been in Russia. There was a Native American who went to work in D.C. and - - anyway. At the time I felt maybe, you know, I never did anything with it. But they were kind of interesting and those came out of the Haskell records because I processed Haskell. The original first one I completely processed and wrote descriptions for. We have the Standing Rock records, at the times of the killing. Some significant events. And the telegram to go bring him in. In fact I carried that telegram home from Washington, D.C. in 2009. It had been loaned out. I was going out there. Alan asked would I pick it up and something else and bring them back. I said sure. So they met me and we signed the paperwork and I thought, oh god. This was after 9/11 and I had to let it go through security. I'm thinking, oh no, when is this going to come out on the other side? And I got back and I said I'm dropping it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you allowed to—did you have to put it under your seat or did you—was it always near you?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.54193668051495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On some, yes. A lot of it was just rechecking the guide, you know, to have the information that's there. Every region had one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Native American records. Any interesting discoveries that you remember or a particular item?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The student case files were interesting, out of Haskell, because they went way back. Sometimes you found interesting things. I was trying to think, there was an employee and there were letters back and forth from having been in Russia. There was a Native American who went to work in D.C. and - - anyway. At the time I felt maybe, you know, I never did anything with it. But they were kind of interesting and those came out of the Haskell records because I processed Haskell. The original first one I completely processed and wrote descriptions for. We have the Standing Rock records, at the times of the killing. Some significant events. And the telegram to go bring him in. In fact I carried that telegram home from Washington, D.C. in 2009. It had been loaned out. I was going out there. Alan asked would I pick it up and something else and bring them back. I said sure. So they met me and we signed the paperwork and I thought, oh god. This was after 9/11 and I had to let it go through security. I'm thinking, oh no, when is this going to come out on the other side? And I got back and I said I'm dropping it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you allowed to—did you have to put it under your seat or did you—was it always near you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to—yeah. It was a folder type thing. I didn't have to stick it above. Nobody knows you got it. They don't know what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. We're going pretty fast. Please don't let me rush you if you have other things you want to talk about. You were working here during the big move from Bannister?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.37992964501661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The student case files were interesting, out of Haskell, because they went way back. Sometimes you found interesting things. I was trying to think, there was an employee and there were letters back and forth from having been in Russia. There was a Native American who went to work in D.C. and - - anyway. At the time I felt maybe, you know, I never did anything with it. But they were kind of interesting and those came out of the Haskell records because I processed Haskell. The original first one I completely processed and wrote descriptions for. We have the Standing Rock records, at the times of the killing. Some significant events. And the telegram to go bring him in. In fact I carried that telegram home from Washington, D.C. in 2009. It had been loaned out. I was going out there. Alan asked would I pick it up and something else and bring them back. I said sure. So they met me and we signed the paperwork and I thought, oh god. This was after 9/11 and I had to let it go through security. I'm thinking, oh no, when is this going to come out on the other side? And I got back and I said I'm dropping it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you allowed to—did you have to put it under your seat or did you—was it always near you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to—yeah. It was a folder type thing. I didn't have to stick it above. Nobody knows you got it. They don't know what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. We're going pretty fast. Please don't let me rush you if you have other things you want to talk about. You were working here during the big move from Bannister?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk at all about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.19992182779623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to—yeah. It was a folder type thing. I didn't have to stick it above. Nobody knows you got it. They don't know what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. We're going pretty fast. Please don't let me rush you if you have other things you want to talk about. You were working here during the big move from Bannister?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk at all about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have to say not only was it an interesting time but it was stressful because we were all—everybody—going through and finding stuff. Either it was forgotten about, we didn't know it was there, or you didn't know where they belonged. I went through a lot of Corps of Engineers old records because when they closed the Army Records Center they moved all that stuff over when the Archives was brand new here, basically without a lot of paperwork. I would go into Reed’s office and ask him. He was here but even he didn’t know. We tried to tie back into the early paperwork, the accessioning files, and find out what they were because we had to do that. We had to, you know, get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember roughly how long it took?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.111024253106923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk at all about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have to say not only was it an interesting time but it was stressful because we were all—everybody—going through and finding stuff. Either it was forgotten about, we didn't know it was there, or you didn't know where they belonged. I went through a lot of Corps of Engineers old records because when they closed the Army Records Center they moved all that stuff over when the Archives was brand new here, basically without a lot of paperwork. I would go into Reed’s office and ask him. He was here but even he didn’t know. We tried to tie back into the early paperwork, the accessioning files, and find out what they were because we had to do that. We had to, you know, get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember roughly how long it took?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think how long it was when we first started. I mean because we had—then we had to move the microfilm. It consumed, basically, months and months of time to get it done from the time that we knew that we were going to move and when they had this building. Then people had to figure out what could come down here, discussions on what did we want down here as opposed to out at Lee's Summit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was my follow-up question. Before Union Station, it was Bannister? And Lee’s Summit?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.997361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a lot of prepping. There were people who were paying to have records microfilmed. I also photocopied the Yellowstone records that we have here in the Park Service with another staff person. Yellowstone wanted us to give them the records and we said no, of course. Then they paid to have a photocopy. So we photocopied them all and pulled some. We said, okay we can't obviously photocopy these. Do they want to send them out to have somebody copy them? So we did that and that was during that crazy, nutty time too that went on, just involving getting another position. I kept—so-and-so - - got her promotion. It comes through and then that job opens up and you can—but, you know, things are—and those are things that are agency-wide...and just because of other things, well, it's not good to speak of this, but I almost quit. I really did. They said don't let her win. I said I know. I'm not going to get into the personnel, more of the backstory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you started in 1987 as a volunteer. When would you say you were full-time? I know you retired in 2012."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went part-time I'd say from ‘88. So it would have been, oh, gosh, when did I go full-time? It would have been ninety—do you have a copy of…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have ‘94 to ‘98 at Grace Cathedral. Do you think ‘94 is when you started here full-time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably December 1998 I started full-time. Because then I quit the cathedral it would have been the Fall of ‘98. That would be right. All those health issues started crashing down around him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that was difficult. Is there anything else you want to add? Any anecdotes or words of wisdom?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.21929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went part-time I'd say from ‘88. So it would have been, oh, gosh, when did I go full-time? It would have been ninety—do you have a copy of…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have ‘94 to ‘98 at Grace Cathedral. Do you think ‘94 is when you started here full-time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably December 1998 I started full-time. Because then I quit the cathedral it would have been the Fall of ‘98. That would be right. All those health issues started crashing down around him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that was difficult. Is there anything else you want to add? Any anecdotes or words of wisdom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't have any words of wisdom. It's kind of fun. Usually, practically all—most people you work with as even on reference and stuff—we're very nice. By phone and then eventually mostly everything came in by email. I can remember when the internet was first starting up and I think the first one of those things was MySpace. We were told in no unequivocal terms, nobody should be on MySpace. Nobody. And now it's, like, yeah, Facebook, Twitter. Get it out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're right. There's whole, there's whole groups devoted to social media now."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 24.6881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably December 1998 I started full-time. Because then I quit the cathedral it would have been the Fall of ‘98. That would be right. All those health issues started crashing down around him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that was difficult. Is there anything else you want to add? Any anecdotes or words of wisdom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't have any words of wisdom. It's kind of fun. Usually, practically all—most people you work with as even on reference and stuff—we're very nice. By phone and then eventually mostly everything came in by email. I can remember when the internet was first starting up and I think the first one of those things was MySpace. We were told in no unequivocal terms, nobody should be on MySpace. Nobody. And now it's, like, yeah, Facebook, Twitter. Get it out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're right. There's whole, there's whole groups devoted to social media now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No, there was to be absolute no presence at all. Then all of a sudden it's, like, get on. Can you get on Facebook? Can you get on Twitter? Now, you've got everything everywhere. Ones you don't even know about anymore. That was a funny one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I love that."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked for Kimberley Clark. I did psychological statistics. I didn't have any psych but I had statistics and my boss was the industrial psychologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would have to think having statistical background would help in an archival background just organizationally or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I like puzzles too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe your—just your brain is wired that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's wired that way. That's why I didn't do English and stuff and then when I married a history professor who was also an archivist, I just sort of, I guess I had been ordained. When I finally went back to work when the kids got old enough and I wasn't running around with tiny children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But archival work requires a very, like, kind of rigid or specific organization."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00004:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I like puzzles too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe your—just your brain is wired that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's wired that way. That's why I didn't do English and stuff and then when I married a history professor who was also an archivist, I just sort of, I guess I had been ordained. When I finally went back to work when the kids got old enough and I wasn't running around with tiny children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But archival work requires a very, like, kind of rigid or specific organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I like puzzles and putting things together and that kind of stuff. So I just slid into it by volunteering. Working on large documents and doing some help in various things and I got into it. I stayed around. I finally left—finally decided to retire. You’ll just realize. It’s time. It’s time to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don't have anything else we can end the interview. I really appreciate your time today. It's been so nice to have you here and to…"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.67432264842295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's an excellent question. And, you know, my recollection is that I didn't think it probably would be more than five or six years, as I'm recalling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's based on kind of what my impression was of what the work was and what we had to do yet. And the reason they were hiring new staff is there had been, in 1996, a Nixon Tape Settlement Agreement—that is between NARA and the Nixon Estate. President Nixon passed away in 1994, and he had very aggressively fought openings of Nixon White House tapes from the time he resigned as President in 1974 until his death 20 years later, in 1994. You know, by the time President Nixon passed away, only 63 hours of tape were publicly open, and most of that related to—there were the Watergate Trial Tapes and then the Watergate Special Prosecution Force Tapes. Those two bodies of tapes comprised about 63 hours. And in a total body of maybe 3,700 hours of total Nixon White House tapes, that's a pretty small number. And so, you know, after President Nixon passed away in '94, NARA was able to achieve an agreement with the Nixon Estate, the Nixon family and the Nixon lawyers, on a process to open the rest of the Nixon White House tapes with a lot of provisions on what had to be restricted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah. So [that’s an] excellent question, Jennifer, about how long I expected it to be. It turned out to be 10 years. But, you know, the tapes themselves continue to be open. I think 2013 was the last major opening of the final fifth Chron segment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you mentioned Chrons. We'll get back to that, because a number of people who we've interviewed were specific to a Chron or maybe couldn't speak to the creation of Chrons."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 41.86035849824772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's based on kind of what my impression was of what the work was and what we had to do yet. And the reason they were hiring new staff is there had been, in 1996, a Nixon Tape Settlement Agreement—that is between NARA and the Nixon Estate. President Nixon passed away in 1994, and he had very aggressively fought openings of Nixon White House tapes from the time he resigned as President in 1974 until his death 20 years later, in 1994. You know, by the time President Nixon passed away, only 63 hours of tape were publicly open, and most of that related to—there were the Watergate Trial Tapes and then the Watergate Special Prosecution Force Tapes. Those two bodies of tapes comprised about 63 hours. And in a total body of maybe 3,700 hours of total Nixon White House tapes, that's a pretty small number. And so, you know, after President Nixon passed away in '94, NARA was able to achieve an agreement with the Nixon Estate, the Nixon family and the Nixon lawyers, on a process to open the rest of the Nixon White House tapes with a lot of provisions on what had to be restricted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah. So [that’s an] excellent question, Jennifer, about how long I expected it to be. It turned out to be 10 years. But, you know, the tapes themselves continue to be open. I think 2013 was the last major opening of the final fifth Chron segment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad you mentioned Chrons. We'll get back to that, because a number of people who we've interviewed were specific to a Chron or maybe couldn't speak to the creation of Chrons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you might want to lead in with that. But I was going to say, can you describe what your role on the Nixon Tapes Project was, the type of work you were doing, and just kind of start from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.505412614930004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And these archivists and the administrators, particularly Karl Weissenbach, the late Karl Weissenbach, were very helpful in smoothing the way for young archivists like myself who could get in and start doing the work and not have to worry so much about being interrupted by court orders or trials of various kinds—trials is not the right word—but court orders to stop us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early 90s—and I'll probably give you more information than you need—but in the early 90s, I'll just briefly say that Public Citizen, which is a lobby group, and historian Stanley Kutler sued the National Archives basically saying, \"Why are you not opening these tapes?\" This is before Nixon passes away. And so there's this kind of fierce litigation [in the] early 1980s over this. And I'm simplifying. There's a lot more . . . some that I don't even remember. But anyway, the Public Citizen suit is very important. And it also helps smooth the way because, eventually, Public Citizen sues the Archives and then Nixon countersues, and NARA is stuck in the middle here, you know. Then Nixon passes away. And honestly, that probably does help expedite an agreement which is reached in 1996, the year before I am hired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotcha. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry if I'm giving you too much or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. This is great! No, it's a lot to cover. So you come online in 1996–97."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.894902905477782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early 90s—and I'll probably give you more information than you need—but in the early 90s, I'll just briefly say that Public Citizen, which is a lobby group, and historian Stanley Kutler sued the National Archives basically saying, \"Why are you not opening these tapes?\" This is before Nixon passes away. And so there's this kind of fierce litigation [in the] early 1980s over this. And I'm simplifying. There's a lot more . . . some that I don't even remember. But anyway, the Public Citizen suit is very important. And it also helps smooth the way because, eventually, Public Citizen sues the Archives and then Nixon countersues, and NARA is stuck in the middle here, you know. Then Nixon passes away. And honestly, that probably does help expedite an agreement which is reached in 1996, the year before I am hired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gotcha. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry if I'm giving you too much or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. This is great! No, it's a lot to cover. So you come online in 1996–97."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'97. Yes. Right. [COUNTER-TALKING] June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can you, if you haven't already covered something you want to, can you talk about kind of the process just a single tape would go through. I read that two different archivists would listen to it."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.438781006086424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry if I'm giving you too much or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. This is great! No, it's a lot to cover. So you come online in 1996–97."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'97. Yes. Right. [COUNTER-TALKING] June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And can you, if you haven't already covered something you want to, can you talk about kind of the process just a single tape would go through. I read that two different archivists would listen to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk a little bit about the process for. . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.72689013097089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk a little bit about the process for. . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, that's great. You know, I was one of several archivists on the team, Jennifer. I can recall an average of maybe, oh, four review archivists at any given time, and that number would fluctuate up and down. Now, I was not involved in the tape's technical aspects directly, although I did work with the technical team on matters such as audio enhancement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I want to give them a lot of credit, too. Bill Cowell, Jerome Bozeman, to people you probably should talk to if you have a chance to. I emailed those names, I think, to Anna Smallwood. They're still at NARA, and they're both very smart men and very, very, very helpful. They helped make my job a lot easier, too. But, you know, I was involved directly or indirectly with all five Chrons, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, there were five Chrons."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.918766812189878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, that's great. You know, I was one of several archivists on the team, Jennifer. I can recall an average of maybe, oh, four review archivists at any given time, and that number would fluctuate up and down. Now, I was not involved in the tape's technical aspects directly, although I did work with the technical team on matters such as audio enhancement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I want to give them a lot of credit, too. Bill Cowell, Jerome Bozeman, to people you probably should talk to if you have a chance to. I emailed those names, I think, to Anna Smallwood. They're still at NARA, and they're both very smart men and very, very, very helpful. They helped make my job a lot easier, too. But, you know, I was involved directly or indirectly with all five Chrons, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, there were five Chrons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five. Exactly. And I can give you details on those, too, if you want. But you know, those first four Chrons, I added up [that they were] about 1,527 hours, which was about 41 percent of the total estimate of the total number of Nixon White House tapes that exist. But I was also involved with the fifth Chron review prior to my leaving in 2007. So I reviewed tapes for the fifth Chron, from November and December 1972, and June of 1973. Okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, real quick . . . Chrons means—is that short for chronological, you decided . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.24307423576653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And again, I want to give them a lot of credit, too. Bill Cowell, Jerome Bozeman, to people you probably should talk to if you have a chance to. I emailed those names, I think, to Anna Smallwood. They're still at NARA, and they're both very smart men and very, very, very helpful. They helped make my job a lot easier, too. But, you know, I was involved directly or indirectly with all five Chrons, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, there were five Chrons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five. Exactly. And I can give you details on those, too, if you want. But you know, those first four Chrons, I added up [that they were] about 1,527 hours, which was about 41 percent of the total estimate of the total number of Nixon White House tapes that exist. But I was also involved with the fifth Chron review prior to my leaving in 2007. So I reviewed tapes for the fifth Chron, from November and December 1972, and June of 1973. Okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, real quick . . . Chrons means—is that short for chronological, you decided . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . or the group . . . ?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.714526928629477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five. Exactly. And I can give you details on those, too, if you want. But you know, those first four Chrons, I added up [that they were] about 1,527 hours, which was about 41 percent of the total estimate of the total number of Nixon White House tapes that exist. But I was also involved with the fifth Chron review prior to my leaving in 2007. So I reviewed tapes for the fifth Chron, from November and December 1972, and June of 1973. Okay?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, real quick . . . Chrons means—is that short for chronological, you decided . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . or the group . . . ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.349474365143863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . or the group . . . ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Correct. And that was part of the . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was like a systematic organization for the tapes?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.943860405715405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Correct. And that was part of the . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was like a systematic organization for the tapes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. It was supposed to be a scheduled opening and that was per, again, the 1996 Tapes Agreement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow! Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.9028507936525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . because of staffing restrictions, staffing limitations. And there was litigation happening, too, during the period I was at Nixon, and it involved two main issues, and that is the so-called original tapes issue—that is the matter of cutting and splicing original Nixon White House tapes. Were those segments going to be physically returned to the Nixon Estate? So the original tapes agreement and then the compensation suit—that is where the Nixon Estate argued that the government had taken private material, the Nixon Papers, and had not given due compensation. And so those were two big cases that, you know, the original tapes agreement and then the compensation suit that did take a lot of our time, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my involvement with that would be to provide, oh, documents that either the Nixon lawyers wanted or the government wanted for the—they were like trials, you know. I remember going down to the federal courthouse in Washington and watching some of this happen. Very interesting stuff. And experts would testify about the monetary value of artifacts as it extended to the gifts. And I believe the total settlement that they settled out of court, I believe, for like $18 million was the total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that. So the Nixon Foundation or family argued that the tapes that were—because all these tapes came from different areas of the White House, correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.336500881836109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my involvement with that would be to provide, oh, documents that either the Nixon lawyers wanted or the government wanted for the—they were like trials, you know. I remember going down to the federal courthouse in Washington and watching some of this happen. Very interesting stuff. And experts would testify about the monetary value of artifacts as it extended to the gifts. And I believe the total settlement that they settled out of court, I believe, for like $18 million was the total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that. So the Nixon Foundation or family argued that the tapes that were—because all these tapes came from different areas of the White House, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they were. There are different places where the recording system happened, you know, the Oval Office and the White House telephones and the Camp David recordings to the EOB—the old Executive Office Building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. That's right. I remember—but all happening during what you would consider, like, President Nixon's business day. But they were just arguing that maybe he would have had a conversation about some personal matter and NARA had . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.929445424262344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that. So the Nixon Foundation or family argued that the tapes that were—because all these tapes came from different areas of the White House, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they were. There are different places where the recording system happened, you know, the Oval Office and the White House telephones and the Camp David recordings to the EOB—the old Executive Office Building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. That's right. I remember—but all happening during what you would consider, like, President Nixon's business day. But they were just arguing that maybe he would have had a conversation about some personal matter and NARA had . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's actually . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But their argument was that there was personal . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.699383804735938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they were. There are different places where the recording system happened, you know, the Oval Office and the White House telephones and the Camp David recordings to the EOB—the old Executive Office Building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. That's right. I remember—but all happening during what you would consider, like, President Nixon's business day. But they were just arguing that maybe he would have had a conversation about some personal matter and NARA had . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's actually . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But their argument was that there was personal . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there's actually [CROSS-TALKING] two issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not to confuse it—I just did not realize that."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.851091116957946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there's actually [CROSS-TALKING] two issues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not to confuse it—I just did not realize that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's two issues. The one issue is the monetary value of White House gifts and papers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they tried to put a monetary value on everything, because they claim that, well, a President like President Truman donated his papers and artifacts and audiovisual materials, et cetera, to the government. Those were his property. He decided to donate them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see.\n\nRichard Nixon was denied that opportunity to do that. If Truman or another one of the Presidents had wanted to, you know, they could have disposed of them any way they wanted to. He could have sold them, if he wanted to. There's no stipulation you have to donate the collections to the government, to NARA. So, therefore, because the government seized Nixon's materials, Nixon and his family were denied the compensation they were potentially due. That's my understanding.\n\nSure. No, it makes more sense."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.51728565303757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we technically think, well, you know, should we have—and we're not applying the Privacy Act. It's a special privacy restriction within PRMPA, you know, a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy, I think is how it went. And many times we opened material because it's Nixon being Nixon. We said that a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because if we closed every time he kind of bad-mouths or criticizes someone, we would be closing a lot. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so our stipulation was, well, you know, does it deal with—and if the person was still living in the late 1990s or early 2000s, there still were several Nixon administration officials still living. Well, it's a critical comment about a living person. Okay. Does it deal with that person's finances? Yes/no. Does it deal with that person's health or personal habits or lifestyle? Yes/no. Okay. That was another measure of how we determined, you know. So anyway, it got to be . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a mental flowchart or did you have some kind of . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 19.463650725597297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because if we closed every time he kind of bad-mouths or criticizes someone, we would be closing a lot. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so our stipulation was, well, you know, does it deal with—and if the person was still living in the late 1990s or early 2000s, there still were several Nixon administration officials still living. Well, it's a critical comment about a living person. Okay. Does it deal with that person's finances? Yes/no. Does it deal with that person's health or personal habits or lifestyle? Yes/no. Okay. That was another measure of how we determined, you know. So anyway, it got to be . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a mental flowchart or did you have some kind of . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a good way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . a kind of legal document to be able to say yes/no? I mean, I just can't imagine, like, the lunchtime conversations dissecting what you just heard that morning or something."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.448951513083085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a good way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . a kind of legal document to be able to say yes/no? I mean, I just can't imagine, like, the lunchtime conversations dissecting what you just heard that morning or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, Jennifer. You know, when the segment a couple of months ago was released, Ronald Reagan [was] speaking to Richard Nixon—and Reagan at this point is not President of the United States. He would be a future President of the United States. But he's talking about— he's very upset—and he talks to Nixon on the phone about the behavior of certain African delegates at the United Nations when the vote was to admit Communist China to be the representative of China instead of Taiwan. Taiwan's our ally. Communist China, you know, we had an opening in China. But anyway, Reagan is very upset about the behavior. And I remember hearing that segment and, at the time, we decided to close it. Well, we just opened it a couple of months ago as a result of, I think, a FOIA [Freedom of Information Act request] or a mandatory . . . it had to be a mandatory review request. I remember where it came out in the press, and I remember just smiling, thinking I remember that segment. I remember discussions about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my view at the time was that we should have opened it, even though Ronald Reagan was still living at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the language he used, I think I remember reading about this."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.609946125647872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, Jennifer. You know, when the segment a couple of months ago was released, Ronald Reagan [was] speaking to Richard Nixon—and Reagan at this point is not President of the United States. He would be a future President of the United States. But he's talking about— he's very upset—and he talks to Nixon on the phone about the behavior of certain African delegates at the United Nations when the vote was to admit Communist China to be the representative of China instead of Taiwan. Taiwan's our ally. Communist China, you know, we had an opening in China. But anyway, Reagan is very upset about the behavior. And I remember hearing that segment and, at the time, we decided to close it. Well, we just opened it a couple of months ago as a result of, I think, a FOIA [Freedom of Information Act request] or a mandatory . . . it had to be a mandatory review request. I remember where it came out in the press, and I remember just smiling, thinking I remember that segment. I remember discussions about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my view at the time was that we should have opened it, even though Ronald Reagan was still living at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the language he used, I think I remember reading about this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of racist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Right. Very colorful and offensive."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.899940139608747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my view at the time was that we should have opened it, even though Ronald Reagan was still living at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the language he used, I think I remember reading about this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of racist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Right. Very colorful and offensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very colorful, derogatory, offensive, but not Privacy, in my view. And I remember talking to colleagues and, I think, maybe a NARA council saying, you know, basically, I think the . . . I should say . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever you want."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.333266821787497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of racist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Right. Very colorful and offensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very colorful, derogatory, offensive, but not Privacy, in my view. And I remember talking to colleagues and, I think, maybe a NARA council saying, you know, basically, I think the . . . I should say . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever you want."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think the concern was . . . [CROSS-TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely paints about what an enormous . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.695391138009256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think the concern was . . . [CROSS-TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It definitely paints about what an enormous . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's put it this way. I think it was, all right, the agency trying to avoid embarrassment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it had nothing to do with the PRMPA. And that's just Sam speaking as an archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right. [CROSS-TALKING] But an enormously difficult task! Yeah!"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.82235285611823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. They were not always reliable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And mishearing words."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember . . . yes, that some people might have said the Ambassador is this, so you can't guarantee that it's . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . precise."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.03830313453088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, Jennifer. Exactly. We would rely a lot on Nixon biographies. We used various archival and secondary sources: Nixon biographies; A Facts on File was a good secondary source; the New York Times Index; Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger's memoirs. . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then, of course, the main primary sources were the Nixon Papers, which we had right there on site. So we'd use the President's personal files a lot; the President's office files; news summaries; the NSC files—very helpful, the National Security Council files—H. R. Haldeman's diaries; John Ehrlichman's notes; Charles Colson's notes. . . . I mean, a lot would depend on who's in the room, too. . . . H. R. Haldeman was in the room quite a bit as Chief of Staff, and so it would be great to listen to him. And then often he would be, as you're hearing him on the tapes and looking at his handwritten notes of that same meeting, it was really cool because there might be something I'm not hearing quite right. But then I realize, oh, this is the context right here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The documents provide a context for what we're listening to, and it was a very rich source for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. I bet. So did you come to recognize voices almost instantly by the time you got in?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.931447927256535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then, of course, the main primary sources were the Nixon Papers, which we had right there on site. So we'd use the President's personal files a lot; the President's office files; news summaries; the NSC files—very helpful, the National Security Council files—H. R. Haldeman's diaries; John Ehrlichman's notes; Charles Colson's notes. . . . I mean, a lot would depend on who's in the room, too. . . . H. R. Haldeman was in the room quite a bit as Chief of Staff, and so it would be great to listen to him. And then often he would be, as you're hearing him on the tapes and looking at his handwritten notes of that same meeting, it was really cool because there might be something I'm not hearing quite right. But then I realize, oh, this is the context right here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The documents provide a context for what we're listening to, and it was a very rich source for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. I bet. So did you come to recognize voices almost instantly by the time you got in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, yes. And, you know, part of the value of these documents is that we could refer to the President's calendar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and know who was in the room."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.10813584401239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's okay. Sorry. I think I'm doing that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So today, if you were a researcher, you could access them at AII and also at the Nixon Library. And then are they available online? Is that what . . . ?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you could essentially access these tapes due to the efforts that the Nixon Tape Staff did over those 10, 12, 15 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. That's correct. They digitized the tapes and put them online. And most of that was done after I left in 2007. NixonLibrary.gov. And there's also a private website. There's probably others, too. Nixontapes.org is another site that has a lot of tapes online. [CROSS-TALKING]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.89792871556932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so you could essentially access these tapes due to the efforts that the Nixon Tape Staff did over those 10, 12, 15 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's correct. That's correct. They digitized the tapes and put them online. And most of that was done after I left in 2007. NixonLibrary.gov. And there's also a private website. There's probably others, too. Nixontapes.org is another site that has a lot of tapes online. [CROSS-TALKING]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sorry, Jennifer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had written in your article, which was 2007, so right as NARA had gained—I guess the word is—the Nixon Foundation. [The Foundation had] at that point [been in] private custody or private control. But in 2007, it all came under NARA as their way to say . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.06004964617406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that's an excellent question. I would say we closed relatively little for Privacy and relatively little for National Security, probably no more than three to five percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The vast majority would be these personal returnables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those have slowly been opening up more since even you worked on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm going to say roughly 70 percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So more than the majority for sure. And if we can just back up real quick so I can understand the process. . . . So once the team of NARA, the one-two team of archivists, reviewed the tapes and identified or annotated what should be retained or should be returned, and then it was published in the Federal Register for comment . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.511166273526733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The vast majority would be these personal returnables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those have slowly been opening up more since even you worked on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm going to say roughly 70 percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So more than the majority for sure. And if we can just back up real quick so I can understand the process. . . . So once the team of NARA, the one-two team of archivists, reviewed the tapes and identified or annotated what should be retained or should be returned, and then it was published in the Federal Register for comment . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . what then happened after that [CROSS-TALKING]?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.901295859474148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm going to say roughly 70 percent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So more than the majority for sure. And if we can just back up real quick so I can understand the process. . . . So once the team of NARA, the one-two team of archivists, reviewed the tapes and identified or annotated what should be retained or should be returned, and then it was published in the Federal Register for comment . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . what then happened after that [CROSS-TALKING]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-five days or sixty days. Sorry, Jennifer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, that's okay. No, that's all right."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.445884288304608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . what then happened after that [CROSS-TALKING]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-five days or sixty days. Sorry, Jennifer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, that's okay. No, that's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there'd be a period of 45 to 60 days for review?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.162093653671786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty-five days or sixty days. Sorry, Jennifer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, that's okay. No, that's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there'd be a period of 45 to 60 days for review?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm really glad you mentioned that, because—and I don't want to interrupt you . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. No, that's okay."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.846770726301983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there'd be a period of 45 to 60 days for review?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm really glad you mentioned that, because—and I don't want to interrupt you . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. No, that's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . because what you're saying is very important. And that is, the other thing we did, there was another sheet of paper [LAUGHS] where we [had] a list of maybe two dozen men and women—they might have all been men at that time . . . I can't remember—but who were former Nixon administration officials, including Henry Kissinger, [who] was on the list. Charles Colson was on the list. Ronald Ziegler was on. . . . Anyway, there were many, many names. Not everybody. But these were people that wanted to be alerted or informed if we were about to open conversations that they were mentioned in, but not participants in. We didn't have to say what the matter was. We would just have to point out what tape number it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flag it for them."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.98014132952596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pro forma. The party that did show an interest in it is the Nixon Estate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were pretty aggressive. A very smart fellow, Robert Nedelkoff, a very bright guy, was the onsite reviewer, and we would bring a tape to him and he'd be very quiet, very diligent. He'd work in his own space there, close to where our offices were. And, you know, his day . . . we sat alone. He sat alone, and he would listen. And at the end of the day, we'd get his tape, put it away, and the next day, \"Good morning, Robert. How are you?\" [LAUGHS] \"Fine, Sam. How are you?\" You know, nice. Very, very businesslike. Extremely smart. Anyway, it was a friendly relationship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing I did—and I know we're running out of time here, Jennifer—but I want to emphasize some of the other . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, please do."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.529678440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm not trying to defend the things he did, but in a different time and place, men like—and they were men—him and H. R. Haldeman, particularly very gifted, and John Dean, very smart . . . you think, a different time and place and with better judgment, frankly . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . what they might have accomplished. And I don't mean to make that sound like I'm being judgmental, but it's just the facts. Anyway, I think that it was very satisfying work. And what's satisfying to me is when I see books that come out and reference [the tapes], you know: John Dean's book about William Rehnquist, The Rehnquist Choice—really good book. And he uses the tapes, Dean, himself. And in Kissinger's book and in numerous literature that's come out—and I admit I've not followed it as closely as I used to since I'm in the Truman world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it came full circle in 2007. I had come back to the Presidential Library. It's a homecoming for me. I'm a supervisory archivist, as I am to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely, to me, an irony that the tapes, that [President Nixon] wanted to record these conversations more for posterity, for him to write—I was reading in your memoir—but they also became wrapped up in this period of the Presidential Records Act being a necessary piece of legislation because that very President wanted to control what it was. I'm fascinated by this period."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.477420489000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . what they might have accomplished. And I don't mean to make that sound like I'm being judgmental, but it's just the facts. Anyway, I think that it was very satisfying work. And what's satisfying to me is when I see books that come out and reference [the tapes], you know: John Dean's book about William Rehnquist, The Rehnquist Choice—really good book. And he uses the tapes, Dean, himself. And in Kissinger's book and in numerous literature that's come out—and I admit I've not followed it as closely as I used to since I'm in the Truman world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it came full circle in 2007. I had come back to the Presidential Library. It's a homecoming for me. I'm a supervisory archivist, as I am to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely, to me, an irony that the tapes, that [President Nixon] wanted to record these conversations more for posterity, for him to write—I was reading in your memoir—but they also became wrapped up in this period of the Presidential Records Act being a necessary piece of legislation because that very President wanted to control what it was. I'm fascinated by this period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's a very good point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you want to cover before we finish the interview today? I can't imagine capturing everything in an hour, but . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.478296900000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's a very good point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you want to cover before we finish the interview today? I can't imagine capturing everything in an hour, but . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's fine. We talked about the difficulties that I had faced. I mean, the audibility and kind of the free-flowing nature of the discussions was a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it might take an entire workday to review one hour of tape, okay? And you might have to listen to the same segment over and over again. Sorry, I'm referring to my notes a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's fine. I know I had written down the eight hours, because they literally would activate when a voice was heard. Correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 10.531441000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's fine. We talked about the difficulties that I had faced. I mean, the audibility and kind of the free-flowing nature of the discussions was a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it might take an entire workday to review one hour of tape, okay? And you might have to listen to the same segment over and over again. Sorry, I'm referring to my notes a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's fine. I know I had written down the eight hours, because they literally would activate when a voice was heard. Correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's actually noise, any noise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any noise. So you could have completely random . . . ?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's nice! It's nice. So, anyway, thank you for talking to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah! Thank you very much!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was there anything else you wanted to cover?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think so. I think it's wonderful to have gotten time with you today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you, Jennifer!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is such an incredible project! Even for someone who has heard about him for years, I didn't quite appreciate the magnitude of review and things, so I do appreciate your time."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00051:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was there anything else you wanted to cover?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think so. I think it's wonderful to have gotten time with you today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you, Jennifer!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is such an incredible project! Even for someone who has heard about him for years, I didn't quite appreciate the magnitude of review and things, so I do appreciate your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're welcome!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This will be hugely helpful for the oral history project as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.84526170696882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my older brother is four years older and he was a volunteer in Venezuela. So I think that's what sparked my interest. And I have, between my junior and senior year of college, I got a phone call and a letter that I got accepted to a program in Nigeria after graduation, but I declined that. But then during my senior year college, there was a recruiting table at the student union center with a poster of a couple on a motorcycle, I think, with a picture from National Geographic. I just went up to the table and I said, take me, I'm yours. Meaning I had already been accepted into the Peace Corps and wasn’t having success finding teaching positions. I was limiting myself to the Bay Area. Anyway, so I went up and I said, I'm yours. They got my name and I left my files. And soon I was getting ready to go to Key West."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, say a few words about your family, where you went to college, what you majored in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Seattle, Washington, I went to the Washington State University over in Pullman. Majored in education. Had one brother that was four years older. And I always wanted to be a teacher, so that was my education major, so I knew that would fit in well for what Peace Corps has planned for me. Even though my brother has gone to Venezuela and did two years as Peace Corps. My family was not thrilled and was very against it. My father, I don’t think he was worried about my safety or whatever. But what I didn’t realize then was that he was prejudiced against brown skinned people and didn’t like the whole idea of coming out here as a way to continue my education. But I was adamant that this is what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, your brother was supportive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually, he met a woman in Venezuela and came back to Seattle for a visit before returning to Venezuela, where he was living. So he was able to stop the Miami during my training period and we saw each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were part of the famous Micronesia I training group. So, what can you say about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.16140189663202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Seattle, Washington, I went to the Washington State University over in Pullman. Majored in education. Had one brother that was four years older. And I always wanted to be a teacher, so that was my education major, so I knew that would fit in well for what Peace Corps has planned for me. Even though my brother has gone to Venezuela and did two years as Peace Corps. My family was not thrilled and was very against it. My father, I don’t think he was worried about my safety or whatever. But what I didn’t realize then was that he was prejudiced against brown skinned people and didn’t like the whole idea of coming out here as a way to continue my education. But I was adamant that this is what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, your brother was supportive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually, he met a woman in Venezuela and came back to Seattle for a visit before returning to Venezuela, where he was living. So he was able to stop the Miami during my training period and we saw each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were part of the famous Micronesia I training group. So, what can you say about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were so many. They were deselected left and right throughout the training period. But they said that, you know, just getting anybody basically right out of college for this Micro I program. At the Marina Hotel in Key West, Florida. All of the Micronesian volunteers were together in the hotel. But we also with our own groups and we had our own rotating schedules, and we didn't really have much opportunity to talk about the other Micronesia volunteers. I remember very painfully the language tests that they gave us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your language trainers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.068224329591136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, actually, he met a woman in Venezuela and came back to Seattle for a visit before returning to Venezuela, where he was living. So he was able to stop the Miami during my training period and we saw each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were part of the famous Micronesia I training group. So, what can you say about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were so many. They were deselected left and right throughout the training period. But they said that, you know, just getting anybody basically right out of college for this Micro I program. At the Marina Hotel in Key West, Florida. All of the Micronesian volunteers were together in the hotel. But we also with our own groups and we had our own rotating schedules, and we didn't really have much opportunity to talk about the other Micronesia volunteers. I remember very painfully the language tests that they gave us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your language trainers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just had their names. Robert [inaudible], Caleb [inaudible], [inaudible], Victor [inaudible], John Stool, and the two women were Annie Hama, and [inaudible]. They are all deceased now. They were all teachers. I realize now that they gave up an awful lot to come so far away from their families for the three months. It was probably very intense for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember our, not so much the [inaudible] but especially the ones from [inaudible]. They were just kind of freaked when we were in Honolulu, it was the big city. [inaudible]."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.83731398714955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I just had their names. Robert [inaudible], Caleb [inaudible], [inaudible], Victor [inaudible], John Stool, and the two women were Annie Hama, and [inaudible]. They are all deceased now. They were all teachers. I realize now that they gave up an awful lot to come so far away from their families for the three months. It was probably very intense for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember our, not so much the [inaudible] but especially the ones from [inaudible]. They were just kind of freaked when we were in Honolulu, it was the big city. [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, um, Father, well he wasn’t yet Father, but Felix Yau was training at Woodstock at that time. So he was hired and came down for a week or so and spoke to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cultural stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, cultural stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what did you think of the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.93034887461061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, um, Father, well he wasn’t yet Father, but Felix Yau was training at Woodstock at that time. So he was hired and came down for a week or so and spoke to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cultural stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, cultural stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what did you think of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was such a new experience. It was really unforgettable. I mean we had the time in Key West and then we went out to these smaller islands, Little Munson, where we camped. We learned how to [inaudible]. We learned how to fight the mosquitoes, scale a fish, or you know, these cultural things, I mean. We spent some time in Miami staying in a hotel, and then we were doing, going out in small groups in the community. So I remember going to like impoverished neighborhoods with a community worker, social worker I guess. Just kind of meeting one-on- one with people. I don’t know what really it was training us for. Maybe the best part of our training that was relevant to coming here was the hurricane that we had. Really really bad hurricane. I remember sitting on the floor of the hotel watching the wind and the rain just whipping by. Housebound for the duration. And then all the shots that we had to get, that was a memorable part of the training. I don't know what the reason we're here, so they were shooting immunizations for everything and some people got really really sick. Big doses of whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people have an education background?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.576663427237627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. And then went to the old townhouse to buy aloha shirts and muumuus, you know, to come to the islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, why don’t you say a few words about your first impressions of Palau."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly the beauty of the place really struck me. And when we were driving in from the airport into Koror and looking down out of the bus window, looking down at the terraced gardens and the [inaudible] gardens, just how beautiful it was. So green. It's really very beautiful. We all stayed in an abai. There were 26 of us who were all in this one big room in the abai. The community people brought pillows and sheets for us. But we had no privacy. So the girls, we would take turn holding a sheet up so we could change our clothes. But being the first group with so many white skin Americans, I remember there were slats all around the abai and there’d just be brown faces. All the kids were coming in and they were just so curious to see how we slept, how we ate, and everything. And then the community, certain hamlets, were assigned to feed us. They were trying to outdo each other. So all this food for every meal and then you were taken around and met some of the territory employees and given a further introduction about what we’re going be doing, who was who, and so on.\n\nSo we were in Koror about a week and then we were sent out to our sites. I was assigned to [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is in the big island. Nice beach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No beach, no beach in sight, just mangroves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.64073714137514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly the beauty of the place really struck me. And when we were driving in from the airport into Koror and looking down out of the bus window, looking down at the terraced gardens and the [inaudible] gardens, just how beautiful it was. So green. It's really very beautiful. We all stayed in an abai. There were 26 of us who were all in this one big room in the abai. The community people brought pillows and sheets for us. But we had no privacy. So the girls, we would take turn holding a sheet up so we could change our clothes. But being the first group with so many white skin Americans, I remember there were slats all around the abai and there’d just be brown faces. All the kids were coming in and they were just so curious to see how we slept, how we ate, and everything. And then the community, certain hamlets, were assigned to feed us. They were trying to outdo each other. So all this food for every meal and then you were taken around and met some of the territory employees and given a further introduction about what we’re going be doing, who was who, and so on.\n\nSo we were in Koror about a week and then we were sent out to our sites. I was assigned to [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is in the big island. Nice beach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No beach, no beach in sight, just mangroves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I stayed [inaudible] were assigned to a house owned by a family, but the family was actually in Koror. So just the two of us there in the house. Actually it had been moved in by, the previous year, by an American teacher [inaudible]. So there was like a bed, some furniture, but [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the school like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.8230412681946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No beach, no beach in sight, just mangroves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I stayed [inaudible] were assigned to a house owned by a family, but the family was actually in Koror. So just the two of us there in the house. Actually it had been moved in by, the previous year, by an American teacher [inaudible]. So there was like a bed, some furniture, but [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the school like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school, I don't know, I was assigned to teach [inaudible]. For some reason, I just freaked out. I think I had culture shock. It just wasn’t the right fit for me. Gene and I were friends but not really close and I just didn't feel that it was a good mix for us to be together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you [inaudible]?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.247823631327332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I stayed [inaudible] were assigned to a house owned by a family, but the family was actually in Koror. So just the two of us there in the house. Actually it had been moved in by, the previous year, by an American teacher [inaudible]. So there was like a bed, some furniture, but [inaudible]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the school like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school, I don't know, I was assigned to teach [inaudible]. For some reason, I just freaked out. I think I had culture shock. It just wasn’t the right fit for me. Gene and I were friends but not really close and I just didn't feel that it was a good mix for us to be together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started to but then some woman would cook for us [inaudible]. I remember doing my own laundry and how the heck I was supposed to wash my sheets and hang them up on the line and I know we could never get [inaudible] so we have to call somebody down to help somebody [inaudible]. The house had a kerosene refrigerator. I felt guilty about using it because we were supposed to be roughing it. Like we wouldn't sleep on the bed because we were supposed to be roughing it, you know. [inaudible] You know, we were trying to tough it out. So anyway, after right after the Christmas break when we all came into Koror for the training and I just kind of broke down, but I didn't want to go home, so they just reassigned me to Koror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So actually what month did you get to Palau?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.386470701474813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school, I don't know, I was assigned to teach [inaudible]. For some reason, I just freaked out. I think I had culture shock. It just wasn’t the right fit for me. Gene and I were friends but not really close and I just didn't feel that it was a good mix for us to be together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started to but then some woman would cook for us [inaudible]. I remember doing my own laundry and how the heck I was supposed to wash my sheets and hang them up on the line and I know we could never get [inaudible] so we have to call somebody down to help somebody [inaudible]. The house had a kerosene refrigerator. I felt guilty about using it because we were supposed to be roughing it. Like we wouldn't sleep on the bed because we were supposed to be roughing it, you know. [inaudible] You know, we were trying to tough it out. So anyway, after right after the Christmas break when we all came into Koror for the training and I just kind of broke down, but I didn't want to go home, so they just reassigned me to Koror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So actually what month did you get to Palau?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came in November 1966. The first day was a Sunday. I will never forget that day. [inaudible] So I was transferred into Koror. [inaudible] So a lot of my former students still remember, some of them, I think are still in therapy over that. This frightening tall white American woman, you know, coming in and forcing you to speak English. For some it was terrifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then where were you living?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.318300779416457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started to but then some woman would cook for us [inaudible]. I remember doing my own laundry and how the heck I was supposed to wash my sheets and hang them up on the line and I know we could never get [inaudible] so we have to call somebody down to help somebody [inaudible]. The house had a kerosene refrigerator. I felt guilty about using it because we were supposed to be roughing it. Like we wouldn't sleep on the bed because we were supposed to be roughing it, you know. [inaudible] You know, we were trying to tough it out. So anyway, after right after the Christmas break when we all came into Koror for the training and I just kind of broke down, but I didn't want to go home, so they just reassigned me to Koror."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So actually what month did you get to Palau?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came in November 1966. The first day was a Sunday. I will never forget that day. [inaudible] So I was transferred into Koror. [inaudible] So a lot of my former students still remember, some of them, I think are still in therapy over that. This frightening tall white American woman, you know, coming in and forcing you to speak English. For some it was terrifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then where were you living?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, well, I lived on the main road with a family. They had a store in front. And then right after Typhoon Sally, I moved in with [inaudible] mother who was a widow and lived alone. So March or April of ’67, yeah after the typhoon because she had some damage. [inaudible] Because there were two women alone in the house, some neighborhood men would knock on the window at night and that was frightening to me. I couldn't sleep. So I found a family [inaudible] and moved in with them and they had a lot of kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These other places you went to were kind of hamlets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.464778643796063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came in November 1966. The first day was a Sunday. I will never forget that day. [inaudible] So I was transferred into Koror. [inaudible] So a lot of my former students still remember, some of them, I think are still in therapy over that. This frightening tall white American woman, you know, coming in and forcing you to speak English. For some it was terrifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then where were you living?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, well, I lived on the main road with a family. They had a store in front. And then right after Typhoon Sally, I moved in with [inaudible] mother who was a widow and lived alone. So March or April of ’67, yeah after the typhoon because she had some damage. [inaudible] Because there were two women alone in the house, some neighborhood men would knock on the window at night and that was frightening to me. I couldn't sleep. So I found a family [inaudible] and moved in with them and they had a lot of kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These other places you went to were kind of hamlets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say a word or two about the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.62753182644007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, well, I lived on the main road with a family. They had a store in front. And then right after Typhoon Sally, I moved in with [inaudible] mother who was a widow and lived alone. So March or April of ’67, yeah after the typhoon because she had some damage. [inaudible] Because there were two women alone in the house, some neighborhood men would knock on the window at night and that was frightening to me. I couldn't sleep. So I found a family [inaudible] and moved in with them and they had a lot of kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These other places you went to were kind of hamlets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say a word or two about the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first went there the Missionary Sisters were running the school. And I was not a Catholic. So I was very unfamiliar about nuns and white habits, saying rosaries, and talking to Mother Angelica and all this, but they were very warm and gracious to me. Really made me feel comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s the elementary school for the Catholic school system?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.030590918266743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say a word or two about the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first went there the Missionary Sisters were running the school. And I was not a Catholic. So I was very unfamiliar about nuns and white habits, saying rosaries, and talking to Mother Angelica and all this, but they were very warm and gracious to me. Really made me feel comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s the elementary school for the Catholic school system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Just the one elementary school and then [inaudible] the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you spent the rest of your tour as a teaching [inaudible]?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.25621213140749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first went there the Missionary Sisters were running the school. And I was not a Catholic. So I was very unfamiliar about nuns and white habits, saying rosaries, and talking to Mother Angelica and all this, but they were very warm and gracious to me. Really made me feel comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s the elementary school for the Catholic school system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Just the one elementary school and then [inaudible] the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you spent the rest of your tour as a teaching [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I spent the two years teaching just at Maris Stella. During that time is when I met Juan. And he was actually he had just returned from, he had just graduated from Canisius College. So he had just got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Canisius in Buffalo?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.173569034897213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Just the one elementary school and then [inaudible] the high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you spent the rest of your tour as a teaching [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I spent the two years teaching just at Maris Stella. During that time is when I met Juan. And he was actually he had just returned from, he had just graduated from Canisius College. So he had just got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Canisius in Buffalo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Buffalo, right. The Jesuits sent him there. He was teaching at the high school, so we met at this massive ceremony after the birth of the first child [inaudible]. And it was right across from this bar called The Boom-Boom Room. Well, they gave us first plates of food and we had no place to sit down there. So her uncle Robert owned the Boom-Boom. So we were happy that Robert opened up the Boom-Boom on Sunday afternoon, closed of course. So we went in [inaudible] and sitting down and then Juan and his cousin [inaudible] were there checking out the Peace Corps. And they came over and that’s where I first met him, at the Boom-Boom Room. That’s the reason why I extended a third year was to kind of see if things were going to work out and we really were going to get married and this is where I’d spend the rest of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do for your third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.081743372108015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I spent the two years teaching just at Maris Stella. During that time is when I met Juan. And he was actually he had just returned from, he had just graduated from Canisius College. So he had just got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Canisius in Buffalo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Buffalo, right. The Jesuits sent him there. He was teaching at the high school, so we met at this massive ceremony after the birth of the first child [inaudible]. And it was right across from this bar called The Boom-Boom Room. Well, they gave us first plates of food and we had no place to sit down there. So her uncle Robert owned the Boom-Boom. So we were happy that Robert opened up the Boom-Boom on Sunday afternoon, closed of course. So we went in [inaudible] and sitting down and then Juan and his cousin [inaudible] were there checking out the Peace Corps. And they came over and that’s where I first met him, at the Boom-Boom Room. That’s the reason why I extended a third year was to kind of see if things were going to work out and we really were going to get married and this is where I’d spend the rest of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do for your third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same. I was still at Maris Stella teaching. And by that third year, really, I was feeling much more comfortable about the teaching and really getting into it. I think the kids, at least that new year’s, you know, kind of got the feel of what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. In addition to teaching, what other kinds of things did you do for fun?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.535270413453347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Buffalo, right. The Jesuits sent him there. He was teaching at the high school, so we met at this massive ceremony after the birth of the first child [inaudible]. And it was right across from this bar called The Boom-Boom Room. Well, they gave us first plates of food and we had no place to sit down there. So her uncle Robert owned the Boom-Boom. So we were happy that Robert opened up the Boom-Boom on Sunday afternoon, closed of course. So we went in [inaudible] and sitting down and then Juan and his cousin [inaudible] were there checking out the Peace Corps. And they came over and that’s where I first met him, at the Boom-Boom Room. That’s the reason why I extended a third year was to kind of see if things were going to work out and we really were going to get married and this is where I’d spend the rest of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do for your third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same. I was still at Maris Stella teaching. And by that third year, really, I was feeling much more comfortable about the teaching and really getting into it. I think the kids, at least that new year’s, you know, kind of got the feel of what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. In addition to teaching, what other kinds of things did you do for fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the summer, we were supposed to be working. And so kind of on my own initiative and with Steve Lewis, who was also in my group, we did this waitress training program. We felt that the waitresses here didn't really know how to properly set the table in order to serve them, which I mean, so we just did this seminar on waitress training program. And then also maybe it was my third year, although it might have been after I was finished being a volunteer because I continued to teach, but anyway I started a Girl Scouts troop. There was a, for a few years, a Girl Scout program here. So I had a Girl Scout troop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a Scout?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.150300459392607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same. I was still at Maris Stella teaching. And by that third year, really, I was feeling much more comfortable about the teaching and really getting into it. I think the kids, at least that new year’s, you know, kind of got the feel of what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. In addition to teaching, what other kinds of things did you do for fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the summer, we were supposed to be working. And so kind of on my own initiative and with Steve Lewis, who was also in my group, we did this waitress training program. We felt that the waitresses here didn't really know how to properly set the table in order to serve them, which I mean, so we just did this seminar on waitress training program. And then also maybe it was my third year, although it might have been after I was finished being a volunteer because I continued to teach, but anyway I started a Girl Scouts troop. There was a, for a few years, a Girl Scout program here. So I had a Girl Scout troop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a Scout?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a camper?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.944778288214007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the summer, we were supposed to be working. And so kind of on my own initiative and with Steve Lewis, who was also in my group, we did this waitress training program. We felt that the waitresses here didn't really know how to properly set the table in order to serve them, which I mean, so we just did this seminar on waitress training program. And then also maybe it was my third year, although it might have been after I was finished being a volunteer because I continued to teach, but anyway I started a Girl Scouts troop. There was a, for a few years, a Girl Scout program here. So I had a Girl Scout troop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a Scout?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a camper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you ever been to a tropical island before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.938642542460006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a camper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you ever been to a tropical island before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, never been out of Washington state. Until I went to Florida for training and then all the way out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you just reflect a little bit on your actual three years as a volunteer. What came out of it for you, for [inaudible], for Palau."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.154047269400007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you ever been to a tropical island before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, never been out of Washington state. Until I went to Florida for training and then all the way out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you just reflect a little bit on your actual three years as a volunteer. What came out of it for you, for [inaudible], for Palau."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I felt that this was a place where I felt really comfortable. I liked the idea of being far away from my parents. And I just felt that this was a place where I could contribute something. Basically, yeah, this is a place where I felt comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really interesting how so many people felt exactly [inaudible]."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.504496966000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, never been out of Washington state. Until I went to Florida for training and then all the way out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you just reflect a little bit on your actual three years as a volunteer. What came out of it for you, for [inaudible], for Palau."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I felt that this was a place where I felt really comfortable. I liked the idea of being far away from my parents. And I just felt that this was a place where I could contribute something. Basically, yeah, this is a place where I felt comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really interesting how so many people felt exactly [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, I just yeah, I just had a very comfortable feeling about it. Because Juan, you know, when we met and then got serious and talked about marriage and he’d come back with the sociology degree and felt that's the reason he went to college is so that he could come back and help Palauans develop and that this is where he would want to be, stay. And so was I willing [inaudible] to stay here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 26.116107740000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I felt that this was a place where I felt really comfortable. I liked the idea of being far away from my parents. And I just felt that this was a place where I could contribute something. Basically, yeah, this is a place where I felt comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's really interesting how so many people felt exactly [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, I just yeah, I just had a very comfortable feeling about it. Because Juan, you know, when we met and then got serious and talked about marriage and he’d come back with the sociology degree and felt that's the reason he went to college is so that he could come back and help Palauans develop and that this is where he would want to be, stay. And so was I willing [inaudible] to stay here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, not every volunteer would stay here. [inaudible] So when did you and Juan get married?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.129008600000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, I just yeah, I just had a very comfortable feeling about it. Because Juan, you know, when we met and then got serious and talked about marriage and he’d come back with the sociology degree and felt that's the reason he went to college is so that he could come back and help Palauans develop and that this is where he would want to be, stay. And so was I willing [inaudible] to stay here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, not every volunteer would stay here. [inaudible] So when did you and Juan get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married on December 27, 1969, which was his birthday. And he decided that was more than that and anniversaries, remembering birthdays were something important to Americans where as Palauans really don’t celebrate that kind of event. And so, we got married on his birthday and that would help him remember. I kind of wanted to get married early in the year, but some of his younger sisters ended up getting married on August 15, which is a big celebration here in the Catholic Church. It’s a holy week for the church but it is also when Palauans celebrate the end of World War II when they got their freedom. So that was one sister-in-law. And then the other sister-in-law snuck in their wedding in October. So by that time, we had already settled on December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were three weddings in the same year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.254454000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, not every volunteer would stay here. [inaudible] So when did you and Juan get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married on December 27, 1969, which was his birthday. And he decided that was more than that and anniversaries, remembering birthdays were something important to Americans where as Palauans really don’t celebrate that kind of event. And so, we got married on his birthday and that would help him remember. I kind of wanted to get married early in the year, but some of his younger sisters ended up getting married on August 15, which is a big celebration here in the Catholic Church. It’s a holy week for the church but it is also when Palauans celebrate the end of World War II when they got their freedom. So that was one sister-in-law. And then the other sister-in-law snuck in their wedding in October. So by that time, we had already settled on December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were three weddings in the same year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, three weddings in the one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your wedding was here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.61606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got married on December 27, 1969, which was his birthday. And he decided that was more than that and anniversaries, remembering birthdays were something important to Americans where as Palauans really don’t celebrate that kind of event. And so, we got married on his birthday and that would help him remember. I kind of wanted to get married early in the year, but some of his younger sisters ended up getting married on August 15, which is a big celebration here in the Catholic Church. It’s a holy week for the church but it is also when Palauans celebrate the end of World War II when they got their freedom. So that was one sister-in-law. And then the other sister-in-law snuck in their wedding in October. So by that time, we had already settled on December."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were three weddings in the same year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, three weddings in the one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your wedding was here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was here in Koror at the Catholic church. Not a real big wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you become a Catholic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.5734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, three weddings in the one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your wedding was here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was here in Koror at the Catholic church. Not a real big wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you become a Catholic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking about it. Although, Juan nor his family never pushed me. [inaudible] Well, Father McMannis had a heart attack in September of ‘69 and somehow that kind of, something clicked after that and I started thinking more about God and that I needed and wanted to have religion in my life and I said well maybe it was [inaudible] that I ended up being at the Catholic school. I was baptized on Christmas Eve in ‘69. And then we got married three days later. Father Moore was the one [inaudible]. Because Juan had lived there with his brother in Buffalo and taught Father Moore the Palauan language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did any of your family come to the wedding?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00217:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 19.526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was here in Koror at the Catholic church. Not a real big wedding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you become a Catholic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking about it. Although, Juan nor his family never pushed me. [inaudible] Well, Father McMannis had a heart attack in September of ‘69 and somehow that kind of, something clicked after that and I started thinking more about God and that I needed and wanted to have religion in my life and I said well maybe it was [inaudible] that I ended up being at the Catholic school. I was baptized on Christmas Eve in ‘69. And then we got married three days later. Father Moore was the one [inaudible]. Because Juan had lived there with his brother in Buffalo and taught Father Moore the Palauan language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did any of your family come to the wedding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My parents hadn’t met Juan, but the whole idea of me staying here, they weren’t keen on it. They said they wouldn’t come, but it didn’t surprise me. They were supportive and then they sent money. [inaudible] they chose not to come, but years later, in ‘92, my father died and my brother and I were there cleaning out my dad’s stuff and my mother said you know I always wanted to come to the wedding but your father didn’t want to. [inaudible] But I had one of the [inaudible] come and she was my maid of honor. Then Juan asked his cousin to be the best man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you just kind of carried on teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00620:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.068456774357337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s part of our training for the crewmembers. We also do briefings for flight directors, and we’re also involved in Spaceflight Resource Management, SFRM, which is training that all the flight controllers go through. We have a finger in a lot of pies, but it’s not always a big finger, sometimes it’s small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious, because no one ever sees tension. I have to assume there has to be some tension sometimes coming from flight crews, going back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. There’s a classic disconnect between remote teams, not just in space but military, pole, climbing teams, ballooning teams, boating teams, and their home base. It’s just a classic disconnect. They see different worlds, and they have different priorities. It’s built in. Ground will see the world one way, ground will have certain goals. Then the crew or the remote team sees things differently. Sometimes tension can develop between the two just because of the distance. We’ve found that flights that had audio-only comm between crews and ground had more difficulties than flights that had audio/video between crew and ground. It was the video aspect that allowed them to have more information and could read intent from the other person. “Is this person really a bad person?” Or, “Well, I kind of like that person.” It has a way of softening tension. That’s been good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been a constant lesson learning and a constant lesson application for you since actually you’ve been here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s been great. It’s wonderful to learn things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about the difficulty of when crewmembers come back and how your team helps them to adjust, especially maybe those crewmembers who know that that was their final flight, and how they tend to transition into ground-based assignments and/or to a new adventure that they’re moving on to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00620:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.732564000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Possibly so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve taught people how to work with each other. Are you teaching them how to deal with working with robots and what it’ll be like to have interaction with nonhuman behavior? Is that something that you guys are looking at as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are not yet there; we’re not there yet because operations has such a short term view of things. The research side of BHP, however, has a much longer term view. No, they’re not doing anything there, but what we want them to do and what we are talking to people about—there’s various researchers out there that are working on virtual reality. The virtual reality offers not a robot but offers artificial environments, environments different than the one you might be in. If we put on a VR headset right now we could be in any environment imagined, although we’re here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a holodeck [fictional virtual reality facility]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a holodeck, but cheap. We’re pushing to experiment that way, but not with robotics. I just think robotics will come on probably a little bit slower than VR does, but eventually they’ll have to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, because I can see astronauts viewing robots as competitors in the future."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00620:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.813960000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are not yet there; we’re not there yet because operations has such a short term view of things. The research side of BHP, however, has a much longer term view. No, they’re not doing anything there, but what we want them to do and what we are talking to people about—there’s various researchers out there that are working on virtual reality. The virtual reality offers not a robot but offers artificial environments, environments different than the one you might be in. If we put on a VR headset right now we could be in any environment imagined, although we’re here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a holodeck [fictional virtual reality facility]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a holodeck, but cheap. We’re pushing to experiment that way, but not with robotics. I just think robotics will come on probably a little bit slower than VR does, but eventually they’ll have to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, because I can see astronauts viewing robots as competitors in the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unless you are the one who is helping program that robot; unless that’s your robot and you have a choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we finish today, there are a couple of other questions I wanted to ask. It’s a long time for you to have to think back, but are there some times during your adventures with the ISS Program that you feel have been rewarding and that you believe your group has significantly contributed to the success of the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.90147478926269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To start with, we can start back with your STS-60 flight and when you first joined the program in 1990 as an astronaut. When did you hear about the Shuttle-Mir Program or the agreements to actually fly a cosmonaut on the Shuttle? Was that before you began training for the STS-60?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that we had heard about a Shuttle-Mir Program around the time of our assignment to STS-60, but we didn't hear that the assignment to a cosmonaut on STS-60 would happen until after the first five members of the crew were on board. So the announcement that there would be a Shuttle-Mir Program, I think, preceded the assignment of STS-60, but the actual inclusion of a cosmonaut, I believe, followed the announcement of the crew, the initial announcement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it much long after that announcement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe so, but I would have to go back and see if that was the case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were training for that flight then, after the cosmonaut was announced and you began training with them, was there any specialized training for this flight that would have been different than a mission without a cosmonaut?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 39.89052754362521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that we had heard about a Shuttle-Mir Program around the time of our assignment to STS-60, but we didn't hear that the assignment to a cosmonaut on STS-60 would happen until after the first five members of the crew were on board. So the announcement that there would be a Shuttle-Mir Program, I think, preceded the assignment of STS-60, but the actual inclusion of a cosmonaut, I believe, followed the announcement of the crew, the initial announcement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it much long after that announcement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe so, but I would have to go back and see if that was the case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were training for that flight then, after the cosmonaut was announced and you began training with them, was there any specialized training for this flight that would have been different than a mission without a cosmonaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In two ways, there was a--well, probably more than that. There was a difference. One is getting to know the cosmonauts and their families, so we not only integrated the cosmonauts into the training, but also their families in a social context. Our crew took some Russian classes as part of our training. We worked with investigation teams that were joint, U.S. and Russian researchers, investigators, scientists, for the payloads that were on board STS-60. Again, a subset of experiments were joint U.S. and Russian experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what some of those experiments were, offhand?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.277409513497616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. It was certainly after landing on STS-60. It would have been in late spring or early summer of the year. Well, let's see here. In fact, the request to take that assignment was made when I was supporting Dick Richards' flight that year as one of the family escorts down at the Cape. So that's actually the time, so we could go back and see when that flight was. But it was, I think, launch day of Dick Richards' flight at the Cape when I talked to, I believe, Dave Leestma or Bob Cabana, or both, about this request to take an assignment over in Russia as the DOR."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think when you were first offered that opportunity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a surprise, and that I was not as prepared as I would have wanted to be in the Russian language, in particular, for taking that flight. So I accepted the assignment and took the Russian classes at JSC [Johnson Space Center] and then over to the Defense Language Institute for roughly six weeks, September and part of October, I believe. Then off to Russia in early November."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A crash-course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure was. For me, learning the Russian language was quite difficult. By the time of the second space flight, the technical Russian was coming along, but the general conversational and social Russian was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a challenging language, certainly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.19712168166402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a surprise, and that I was not as prepared as I would have wanted to be in the Russian language, in particular, for taking that flight. So I accepted the assignment and took the Russian classes at JSC [Johnson Space Center] and then over to the Defense Language Institute for roughly six weeks, September and part of October, I believe. Then off to Russia in early November."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A crash-course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure was. For me, learning the Russian language was quite difficult. By the time of the second space flight, the technical Russian was coming along, but the general conversational and social Russian was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a challenging language, certainly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if the conversation is not done in context. You'd see a discussion in a particular environment of the Mir station or the simulator about some components or some activities, and that would be easier for me to understand and put it in context. Many of the words are quite similar to English. But without context, in a more general conversation with colloquial expressions, it was more difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously, you've picked up enough of it to do a pretty good job while you were over there and on the flights."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.44124631296002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure was. For me, learning the Russian language was quite difficult. By the time of the second space flight, the technical Russian was coming along, but the general conversational and social Russian was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a challenging language, certainly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if the conversation is not done in context. You'd see a discussion in a particular environment of the Mir station or the simulator about some components or some activities, and that would be easier for me to understand and put it in context. Many of the words are quite similar to English. But without context, in a more general conversation with colloquial expressions, it was more difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously, you've picked up enough of it to do a pretty good job while you were over there and on the flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately, we had a lot of help. The Russians that were in our office were a great deal of help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you go over the different individuals that you did have in your office and what some of their roles were?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.601384792177797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if the conversation is not done in context. You'd see a discussion in a particular environment of the Mir station or the simulator about some components or some activities, and that would be easier for me to understand and put it in context. Many of the words are quite similar to English. But without context, in a more general conversation with colloquial expressions, it was more difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously, you've picked up enough of it to do a pretty good job while you were over there and on the flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately, we had a lot of help. The Russians that were in our office were a great deal of help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you go over the different individuals that you did have in your office and what some of their roles were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The number of Americans in Star City varied from probably six, at the lowest number, to thirty-five or so at the highest number, when science teams and medical teams would come in. So during the preparation for the flight, we would have periods when hardware would arrive, technicians would arrive, medical personnel and research physicians, research scientists would all converge on Star City. Typically, during an event where there's a lot of activity, we would have visitors. So the numbers would rise and fall throughout that five-month period. But it was a fairly intense period of time as we were engaged in activities that were new for us, and for the Russians, preparing a crew to fly out of Baikonur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite different from any kind of preparations that were done for a Shuttle flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 35.11264976908644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fortunately, we had a lot of help. The Russians that were in our office were a great deal of help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you go over the different individuals that you did have in your office and what some of their roles were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The number of Americans in Star City varied from probably six, at the lowest number, to thirty-five or so at the highest number, when science teams and medical teams would come in. So during the preparation for the flight, we would have periods when hardware would arrive, technicians would arrive, medical personnel and research physicians, research scientists would all converge on Star City. Typically, during an event where there's a lot of activity, we would have visitors. So the numbers would rise and fall throughout that five-month period. But it was a fairly intense period of time as we were engaged in activities that were new for us, and for the Russians, preparing a crew to fly out of Baikonur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite different from any kind of preparations that were done for a Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In many ways there are similarities of crew training, but in many ways that's different. The Russian training system certainly has differences from ours, and the equipment and other support structure for our side of the activity was also more difficult to put all of the parts in place because of the distance involved in obtaining spare parts and those types of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at the mission and preparing for that, what were some of your other duties as DOR, besides helping the astronauts train for their mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.045496251713299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, by those that had seen the transition, it certainly was. Those that had arrived for their tour probably would not have recognized the situation that was present just five months prior."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about changes, even in the five months, I think you mentioned in the first interview that you also saw changes in Moscow itself. Can you talk a little bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The changes were occurring at a rapid rate during that period of time, from storefronts improving in appearance, from more goods appearing in stores, even more cars appearing on the highway system. There was an influx of Western business in Moscow, and an improvement in the overall infrastructure of the city was occurring during the time that we were in Star City. Now, the changes in Moscow were more evident than those in Star City. It was on the outside of the outer loop so that you didn't see a great deal of change in that part of the country, as one would see in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Taking a little bit about some or both of these changes, you mentioned how one of the things that you were involved with was getting transportation and vans for the NASA personnel. How did you first get around before you did have those arranged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an agreement to have Russian drivers in there, [unclear] primarily, that were part of the motor pool in Star City that would provide the transportation to and from Moscow. That was part of the original agreements for Phase One, but that arrangement was negotiated up to Norm's flight. So there needed to be some transition after that part of our program was completed, as well as accommodating the additional people that would be involved in the investigations on the life sciences material sciences side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking some more at the transportation, we've heard a little bit that driving in Moscow could be an entertaining prospect. Do you have incidents that you can recall that were? Or just a general feeling of the driving situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.272773613014776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The changes were occurring at a rapid rate during that period of time, from storefronts improving in appearance, from more goods appearing in stores, even more cars appearing on the highway system. There was an influx of Western business in Moscow, and an improvement in the overall infrastructure of the city was occurring during the time that we were in Star City. Now, the changes in Moscow were more evident than those in Star City. It was on the outside of the outer loop so that you didn't see a great deal of change in that part of the country, as one would see in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Taking a little bit about some or both of these changes, you mentioned how one of the things that you were involved with was getting transportation and vans for the NASA personnel. How did you first get around before you did have those arranged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an agreement to have Russian drivers in there, [unclear] primarily, that were part of the motor pool in Star City that would provide the transportation to and from Moscow. That was part of the original agreements for Phase One, but that arrangement was negotiated up to Norm's flight. So there needed to be some transition after that part of our program was completed, as well as accommodating the additional people that would be involved in the investigations on the life sciences material sciences side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking some more at the transportation, we've heard a little bit that driving in Moscow could be an entertaining prospect. Do you have incidents that you can recall that were? Or just a general feeling of the driving situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The drive to and from Moscow was generally an experience. The drivers were, by and large, quite good and would drive like many of the others on the road. So it was just a normal way of driving and still the best way of getting from one point to another for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever any discussion about getting driver's licenses for the American individuals?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.636415125571974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an agreement to have Russian drivers in there, [unclear] primarily, that were part of the motor pool in Star City that would provide the transportation to and from Moscow. That was part of the original agreements for Phase One, but that arrangement was negotiated up to Norm's flight. So there needed to be some transition after that part of our program was completed, as well as accommodating the additional people that would be involved in the investigations on the life sciences material sciences side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking some more at the transportation, we've heard a little bit that driving in Moscow could be an entertaining prospect. Do you have incidents that you can recall that were? Or just a general feeling of the driving situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The drive to and from Moscow was generally an experience. The drivers were, by and large, quite good and would drive like many of the others on the road. So it was just a normal way of driving and still the best way of getting from one point to another for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever any discussion about getting driver's licenses for the American individuals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some discussion about the driver's licenses for the U.S. folks, but the issue of storing the vehicle and parking it in different parts of Moscow, outside of the embassy compound, for example, was always a question whether that was a good idea. And how difficult that would be to find a place, a simple place to park, whereas the driver situation, and hiring what turned out to be a very good addition to our team, I think, was a good solution. They knew how to get around Moscow when [unclear], which occasionally happened by the [unclear] kind of folks there, or the guard would be more adept at getting us to the next point, getting through that situation. We didn't have to worry about where the vehicles were going to be when we got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be kind of like trying to park a car in New York City."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.151572361746638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The drive to and from Moscow was generally an experience. The drivers were, by and large, quite good and would drive like many of the others on the road. So it was just a normal way of driving and still the best way of getting from one point to another for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever any discussion about getting driver's licenses for the American individuals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some discussion about the driver's licenses for the U.S. folks, but the issue of storing the vehicle and parking it in different parts of Moscow, outside of the embassy compound, for example, was always a question whether that was a good idea. And how difficult that would be to find a place, a simple place to park, whereas the driver situation, and hiring what turned out to be a very good addition to our team, I think, was a good solution. They knew how to get around Moscow when [unclear], which occasionally happened by the [unclear] kind of folks there, or the guard would be more adept at getting us to the next point, getting through that situation. We didn't have to worry about where the vehicles were going to be when we got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be kind of like trying to park a car in New York City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that, yes. There's also an issue of some cases of European vehicles being stolen in that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be quite inconvenient. [Laughter] Come out and don't have a car anymore. That sounds like it worked out pretty well in the long run."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.835080401940708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some discussion about the driver's licenses for the U.S. folks, but the issue of storing the vehicle and parking it in different parts of Moscow, outside of the embassy compound, for example, was always a question whether that was a good idea. And how difficult that would be to find a place, a simple place to park, whereas the driver situation, and hiring what turned out to be a very good addition to our team, I think, was a good solution. They knew how to get around Moscow when [unclear], which occasionally happened by the [unclear] kind of folks there, or the guard would be more adept at getting us to the next point, getting through that situation. We didn't have to worry about where the vehicles were going to be when we got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be kind of like trying to park a car in New York City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that, yes. There's also an issue of some cases of European vehicles being stolen in that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be quite inconvenient. [Laughter] Come out and don't have a car anymore. That sounds like it worked out pretty well in the long run."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. The drivers, when they weren't actually engaged in driving, would come up to the office and try to help out, as well. It was a good rapport with everybody in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always helps to have that. Talking a little bit about rapport, can you go into some of the relationships between the American side and the Russian side, some of the cultural differences? Were there any holdover emotions from the Cold War, anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.70564489104523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that, yes. There's also an issue of some cases of European vehicles being stolen in that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be quite inconvenient. [Laughter] Come out and don't have a car anymore. That sounds like it worked out pretty well in the long run."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. The drivers, when they weren't actually engaged in driving, would come up to the office and try to help out, as well. It was a good rapport with everybody in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always helps to have that. Talking a little bit about rapport, can you go into some of the relationships between the American side and the Russian side, some of the cultural differences? Were there any holdover emotions from the Cold War, anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you could find the entire spectrum among fairly significant numbers of people there in Star City, from those that very enthusiastically embraced the new program between the two countries, to those that were quite reluctant to embrace this new program. Most fell somewhere in between. As each side started to understand the other more, the situation continued to improve. I think we ended up sharing a lot of common interests and experiences. Some things in space point to a way of doing things that both countries kind of evolve to separately. You would find it quite normal, natural, how to take care of a certain technical situation when it concerned space flight. The cultural differences in the more social environment probably were a little broader than they were in the technical aspects of space flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of those cultural differences, as you did get to know each other better and as everyone was working together, were there opportunities for social events that would kind of help smooth those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.28325695937392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure. I would suspect the answer would be yes, but I'm not sure. We thought it was a good idea. We even had pictures of the prime and back-up crew members for the Soyuz launch and they were symbolically put on the Mir station and the Shuttle. It was kind of a cartoon. I think it was a chimney actually installed on the Mir station and the Shuttle was sort of the sleigh, being pulled by reindeer en route to the Mir station with just the pictures of a head view of the three for the back-up on the Shuttle coming up toward the Mir station, the other three then on board the Mir station as it would be for STS-71."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. I'm sure that was well appreciated. Talking a little bit about the cultural and the relationships and such, I've noticed in the Star City updates that you passed on to us that some cross-cultural training was begun while you were over there. What did that entail and how different was that from what had been done before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The cross-cultural training, as I recall, was not very extensive, first of all, led by a U.S. group. A contact point, I believe, would be Al Holland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, we can talk to him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the reasonably structured syllabus of what they wanted to cover and some discussion on cultural differences. For us it was relatively late in our stay and it probably reflected more of a confirmation of many of the items that they presented. There were some new issues as well, but probably a good course for people that were newly arriving, but in our case, a little downstream from our perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd learned it all on the job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.31472995485991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The cross-cultural training, as I recall, was not very extensive, first of all, led by a U.S. group. A contact point, I believe, would be Al Holland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, we can talk to him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the reasonably structured syllabus of what they wanted to cover and some discussion on cultural differences. For us it was relatively late in our stay and it probably reflected more of a confirmation of many of the items that they presented. There were some new issues as well, but probably a good course for people that were newly arriving, but in our case, a little downstream from our perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd learned it all on the job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit of it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a section in that mentioned that was about women in the workplace. A little bit from what we've heard from some of the others that we've talked with, the Russians were a little bit surprised about the American women. Do you have any perspective on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.77081230736155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The two principal systems were through the Russian phone system that allowed you to connect to an AT&T operator, sometimes by way of the Russian system into, say, the U.S. Embassy. Another means of communication was through the NMARSAT [phonetic] system via two portable systems that we had. One was in the office area and one was in an apartment area. So we became reasonably good at understanding the signal strength problems of the system and ways that we would try to restore the communication signals and the channel. One would point to a satellite over the Indian Ocean, the other one over the Atlantic. So we had some idea what the look angles were for those two ways of reaching a satellite and eventually sending either voice and/or data back to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that probably contributed to some of those long days, occasionally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure did. Some E-mails would take hours to get through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Technology, I guess, eventually prevailed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it had more stability in the communications link and so a more normal E-mail traffic would allow that means to go back and forth. We would participate in the conference calls in Houston. Some were at the very beginning of the Houston day, which accommodated our schedule better than one that would be in the latter part of the Houston day, which would be midnight or so in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is moving on to a slightly different tack. I noticed, again while reading the Star City updates, that you mentioned occasionally the Chetznya [phonetic] situation that was while you were over there. How much did that impact what you all were doing over in Star City? How much of a concern was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.62176821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, the approach and docking. I would continue to practice my Russian, as the speaker for making the rendezvous approach and docking calls in [unclear], the pressure checks and the hatch opening and those types of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you finally got up there to Mir, was it what you had expected from all this training and from all your time spent with working with the Russians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After hearing of the experiences of the two previous crews that had been on Mir and looking at the photographs of the Mir station, we had a pretty good idea of what the Mir would be like. Some of the tools were placed in more tenuous situations along the sides of the passageways, so you were cautioned, correctly, by the cosmonauts to be careful as we brought equipment through these passageways, not to dislodge pliers and screwdrivers and those kinds of things that were tacked along the sides. We developed a pretty efficient system. We were well ahead of our time line in terms of transfers on our mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The docking went pretty smoothly, obviously. Then there was a little bit of ceremony with the handshakes and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about that, how it was? Had you trained with the cosmonauts on the ground before or met them while you were DOR? Was this the first time for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.0241869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After hearing of the experiences of the two previous crews that had been on Mir and looking at the photographs of the Mir station, we had a pretty good idea of what the Mir would be like. Some of the tools were placed in more tenuous situations along the sides of the passageways, so you were cautioned, correctly, by the cosmonauts to be careful as we brought equipment through these passageways, not to dislodge pliers and screwdrivers and those kinds of things that were tacked along the sides. We developed a pretty efficient system. We were well ahead of our time line in terms of transfers on our mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The docking went pretty smoothly, obviously. Then there was a little bit of ceremony with the handshakes and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about that, how it was? Had you trained with the cosmonauts on the ground before or met them while you were DOR? Was this the first time for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had met them when I was there as the director of operations, as well as the training trip that we had in Russia. They had made, I believe, two or three trips to the U.S. during the course of their training flow to work out some of the science that would be transported into the Mir station. Maybe just twice. I'm not sure of that. So we'd make a special effort to get together when they were in the U.S., as well. So we were comfortable working with Yuri Frinkel [phonetic] and Yuri Yusochev [phonetic] during the five days that we were docked. A kind of mutual excitement about getting together was clear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, I'm sure, it was exciting for Shannon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.693541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about that, how it was? Had you trained with the cosmonauts on the ground before or met them while you were DOR? Was this the first time for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had met them when I was there as the director of operations, as well as the training trip that we had in Russia. They had made, I believe, two or three trips to the U.S. during the course of their training flow to work out some of the science that would be transported into the Mir station. Maybe just twice. I'm not sure of that. So we'd make a special effort to get together when they were in the U.S., as well. So we were comfortable working with Yuri Frinkel [phonetic] and Yuri Yusochev [phonetic] during the five days that we were docked. A kind of mutual excitement about getting together was clear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, I'm sure, it was exciting for Shannon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. And she was ready to get on with the work that she had trained to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on the flights and your time as a DOR, what would you say were the biggest challenges for each one along the way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00795:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The space program needs are varied. In our college we span hardware and software kinds of disciplines. So I will talk to the students, encourage them to continue their studies and do as well as they possibly can, whatever they choose, but there are a variety roles that they can fill in being involved in the space program. There are some that involve flying in space. Many involve support of those operations in space. Many more involve the design, test, and building of equipment that will be involved in the program, as well as some of the scientific underpinnings, ground-based, as well as space-based work, for the program.\\n\\n So I lay out a variety of options and listen to what they would like to do and try to assist them in choosing an educational background that would meet some of their goals, try to help a open a few more doors for them in the future, and not close many by narrowing in on something that's very specialized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you seen a lot of potential in the upcoming students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. We have very good students, whether it be the undergraduate folks that are roughly half of those that are working in a community and half that are more traditional, coming from high school population, and our graduate student population, which at this campus is principally working professionals coming to the campus for evening courses, very bright students. I'm confident that we're going to do well in the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I can think of today, however, more than open to either answering any questions that you may think of, or after reviewing what we have talked about, perhaps giving you a call."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Thank you so much. I think it's been quite interesting. I really appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.15119710556282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't see any reason—you see, there were Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland] people flying unmanned vehicles. There were my people flying manned vehicles, and ABMA was a Huntsville organization developing boosters and flying boosters. It had nothing to do with the other two programs, and so it made sense that they put it all together under NASA, that they would.\\n\\n But one of the things that happened almost immediately, though, when [Kurt H.] Debus became part of NASA was that poor Mel Gough, who had been a member of NACA way back to 1927, was relieved of his job. He was titular head of NASA there, and he just sort of disappeared. He went on to work for the Bureau of Aeronautics to begin with after leaving NACA/NASA for, say, thirty years. But anyway, so it goes.\\n\\n I keep getting off track. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. Actually, before we go much further, I'd like to jump back a little bit and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, well, let me figure out where I am first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the formation of NASA and the groups at Langley and at Lewis. What did you think of the process of forming NASA and the manned spaceflight program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.279107895069803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, well, let me figure out where I am first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the formation of NASA and the groups at Langley and at Lewis. What did you think of the process of forming NASA and the manned spaceflight program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure you're aware of Walt [Walter C.] Williams, who was the mission director for all the flights of Mercury and the first flight of Gemini. In the middle of Mercury, he came down to me and he said, \"Preston, you've got to quit worrying about spending money.\" He said, \"You spend it and it's successful, there's no problem. If you don't spend it and you're unsuccessful, boy, you're going to catch hell.\"\\n\\n It was a whole different attitude. I mean, NACA was a very frugal organization, a very well-run organization, and an ideal place to work. I had a habit of pinching pennies. That was the nature of that organization. It took me a while to get used to that new attitude, particularly when you had to—our budget the year before NASA was about 10 million dollars. We had, I don't know—well, I'd better not say. I think it was around 7,000 employees. They were all civil service, no contractors, or very little. It was sort of an ideal organization. I'd say it probably was the best organizations the government ever had, but I might be prejudiced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we've heard that a few times. We've heard that from others, that it was a good organization."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.04146199162379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it's almost like the crash program we had. This was a case where we let go of the airplane at the end of a runway and let it run down and crash, and we forever were finding else new that we didn't expect. When it finally got all through and he said, \"Well, that's what we were trying to find out.\" And it's true, you learn by failure almost as much as you do success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you have to go through some rather strange emotions, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were trying to basically create from scratch all of these procedures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, we would have never have made it if it hadn't been for his help. He didn't exactly write everything, but he sure led us by the nose. He lives here, by the way, and he's a very good friend of mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we might have to look at maybe having him participant in the project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.37940221291532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you have to go through some rather strange emotions, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were trying to basically create from scratch all of these procedures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, we would have never have made it if it hadn't been for his help. He didn't exactly write everything, but he sure led us by the nose. He lives here, by the way, and he's a very good friend of mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we might have to look at maybe having him participant in the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be a good idea, because he was the—I don't know his exact position in headquarters, but he was pretty high up, I think, and worked for the administrator himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I'm familiar with his name. We've come across it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.75489134768369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, we would have never have made it if it hadn't been for his help. He didn't exactly write everything, but he sure led us by the nose. He lives here, by the way, and he's a very good friend of mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we might have to look at maybe having him participant in the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be a good idea, because he was the—I don't know his exact position in headquarters, but he was pretty high up, I think, and worked for the administrator himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I'm familiar with his name. We've come across it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phil Culbertson. He retired four or five years ago, but he had been with NASA probably since the end of Mercury or somewhere along in there, a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly involved with it beforehand."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.505434830759654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be a good idea, because he was the—I don't know his exact position in headquarters, but he was pretty high up, I think, and worked for the administrator himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I'm familiar with his name. We've come across it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phil Culbertson. He retired four or five years ago, but he had been with NASA probably since the end of Mercury or somewhere along in there, a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly involved with it beforehand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with Phil Culbertson and the Air Force and the NASA people, as you were starting out, you were based in Hangar S at the Cape, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.67270536751072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phil Culbertson. He retired four or five years ago, but he had been with NASA probably since the end of Mercury or somewhere along in there, a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly involved with it beforehand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with Phil Culbertson and the Air Force and the NASA people, as you were starting out, you were based in Hangar S at the Cape, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you start building these procedures and figuring out the safety as you went along?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 46.3030059639008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Working with Phil Culbertson and the Air Force and the NASA people, as you were starting out, you were based in Hangar S at the Cape, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you start building these procedures and figuring out the safety as you went along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we finally learned what was expected and, of course, it turns out you just put down on paper what you know you have to do. I mean, in detailed steps. Before when we were flying up at Lewis, we'd just go out and do it, and that's not acceptable when you've got all this kind of business. But it was just a matter of writing down what's going to go on in detail. I mean extreme detail. Sometimes it gets a little annoying, it's so detailed, but that's the way it really has to be, so that everybody knows what's going on. That's the way they still do it. It wasn't hard— [Telephone interruption.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about the details."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.170207732393095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's my career, but there are some personal experiences that I might want to talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got to look and see where I duplicated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, a couple questions that—go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was really going back to, I already told you about the first Atlas shot that Williams and I watched and it failed. The first Redstone was the one where the Redstone lifted off about six inches and then fell back on the pad. Everything in the spacecraft worked perfectly, all the recovery gear came out like it's supposed to. Yardley was standing, both he and I were standing right at the door of the control center, and he immediately knew what was going on. I mean, it was kind of confusing, seeing all this stuff coming out, but he recognized that it was proper procedure.\\n\\n Well, I don't know, maybe you've heard that story before, but as a result of that, we had to put in a booster development flight for the Redstone, which went in right before [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.], and we missed beating the Russians by a month and that was that month. However, they were going orbital and we were just lobbing it. There's a big difference.\\n\\n But what happened to the booster, in case you don't know, is that the cord attached to the vehicle dropped out early, which made the booster think that—wait a minute, I've got that backwards. It didn't drop out. When it did pull it out, it thought the flight was over, so it shut down. It's only been thirty-some years, I'm a little confused. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.3308748043801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the fault from the booster lifting off, and it shut down when it was six inches off the pad. An aside from that…our spacecraft [was] fueled with these hyperbolic fuels and not exactly the safest thing in the world. Walter [F.] Burke, who was the, I think he was chief engineer of McDonnell, decided he wasn't going to let his people safe the thing, so he, himself, went up there and safed it. He just wouldn't allow his own people to get involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's an example of good leadership, if you're not willing to do it yourself then—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's for sure. He came down quite frequently, and it was obvious that he was more in favor of the Mercury spacecraft than he was anything else going on at McDonnell, because he was spending more time on it.\\n\\n I think I told you about going through Huntsville."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's not much to say about Shepard's flight, except that the day of the launch I was in the block house as usual, and I went over to see how Shepard was doing with the medical people. One of them looked up at me, he just grabbed my arm, took my pulse, and I was worse off than Shepard was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that's understandable."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.70097200486678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's for sure. He came down quite frequently, and it was obvious that he was more in favor of the Mercury spacecraft than he was anything else going on at McDonnell, because he was spending more time on it.\\n\\n I think I told you about going through Huntsville."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's not much to say about Shepard's flight, except that the day of the launch I was in the block house as usual, and I went over to see how Shepard was doing with the medical people. One of them looked up at me, he just grabbed my arm, took my pulse, and I was worse off than Shepard was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that's understandable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, truthfully, though, that is about the last time I ever did get too excited when it happened, because it just didn't do anything for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after that you had done it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.889968894296423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there's not much to say about Shepard's flight, except that the day of the launch I was in the block house as usual, and I went over to see how Shepard was doing with the medical people. One of them looked up at me, he just grabbed my arm, took my pulse, and I was worse off than Shepard was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that's understandable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, truthfully, though, that is about the last time I ever did get too excited when it happened, because it just didn't do anything for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after that you had done it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was extremely nervous on that flight. But in the case of [Virgil I. Gus] Grissom, you've heard enough about the flap about the hatch, so I don't need to bring that up. I do side with his wife in that this whole business of recovering the spacecraft is a little bit unnecessary. Quite frankly, I think before it's over they're going to blame Grissom for the whole affair, and I don't know how in the hell they can, but they will. I know we tried to figure out who it was, and finally said, \"What's the point anyway?\" They redesigned that hatch anyway. It doesn't make any difference. But I think that's the newspapers or what they're after.\\n\\n But Grissom didn't make himself any easier on himself because he had his flight suit full of pennies, which weighted him down, and he just came within an inch of drowning.\\n\\n As a rather coincidence, my priest over here at the local Episcopal church…the last one, not this one, was in the flight crew of the helicopter that picked him up. I found that out years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an interesting coincidence."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.37794374988024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, once we started flying, the astronaut himself participated. Before that, a mechanic would be in the spacecraft flipping switches, but once it started flying, the astronaut himself would be in there being the simulated pilot. So that was a big difference. As I recall, we didn't get in this position of having that oxygen-filled spacecraft when the man was in there. However, I think that's probably wrong, because we must have done it once or twice, but we didn't get that same experience. I think the difference was that we were extremely cautious about people being in that spacecraft and doing damage to it.\\n\\n Joe Bobik was my chief inspector and he came from Lewis, a very competent inspector, very precise and very persnickety. Yardley used to complain all the time to me the fact that he was holding them up. I invariably would back him up, because you can't break those people's spirit or they weren't worth a damn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, it worked. We did have our moments of fear, but not as bad. I think I was the only one in that position that didn't end up with a fatality. Oh, wait a minute, though, whatchacall it. After Petrone. What's his name? [Walter J. Kapryan.] Came from Langley. That's terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He took over from Petrone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the launch director after Petrone. He was his deputy and then he was the—oh, my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I can't think of it either."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.642159722089158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, it worked. We did have our moments of fear, but not as bad. I think I was the only one in that position that didn't end up with a fatality. Oh, wait a minute, though, whatchacall it. After Petrone. What's his name? [Walter J. Kapryan.] Came from Langley. That's terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He took over from Petrone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the launch director after Petrone. He was his deputy and then he was the—oh, my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I can't think of it either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in the tank at Langley. Well, that's beside the point, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll check the books and make sure we get his name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.491288580099063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the launch director after Petrone. He was his deputy and then he was the—oh, my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I can't think of it either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in the tank at Langley. Well, that's beside the point, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll check the books and make sure we get his name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that won't help much, but anyway, I don't think he had a fatality. But a couple of times I came awful close. Like for instance, Armstrong's [Gemini VIII] flight, boy, they came so damn close it was terrible. He landed in the ocean. The odds weren't too red hot of picking them out there in the middle of nowhere.\\n\\n But let's get back to—Carpenter's flight was the one after Glenn's, and he got so enamored with the scenery and the sparklers that he overshot by a couple hundred miles, and, of course, this is old news, probably an old story for you. But Walt Williams asked that we evaluate the astronauts from then on, you know, stability, because Carpenter, he should have paid more attention to what he was doing, but he didn't.\\n\\n [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.] was the next flight, and he came storming in the office, said, \"You're going to tell me when I can fly?\" He just blew his stack. Well, I finally told him that our crew thought he was the best manipulator of the control arm of the whole bunch, and that settled him down. [Laughter]\\n\\n Everything in Mercury went along fine, considering. At the end of Mercury, we all went off to Washington and New York, quite an experience having a cocktail party at Disney's, and meeting the—who the cartoonist that just retired?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Charles [M.] Schultz?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.434765088998958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was in the tank at Langley. Well, that's beside the point, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll check the books and make sure we get his name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that won't help much, but anyway, I don't think he had a fatality. But a couple of times I came awful close. Like for instance, Armstrong's [Gemini VIII] flight, boy, they came so damn close it was terrible. He landed in the ocean. The odds weren't too red hot of picking them out there in the middle of nowhere.\\n\\n But let's get back to—Carpenter's flight was the one after Glenn's, and he got so enamored with the scenery and the sparklers that he overshot by a couple hundred miles, and, of course, this is old news, probably an old story for you. But Walt Williams asked that we evaluate the astronauts from then on, you know, stability, because Carpenter, he should have paid more attention to what he was doing, but he didn't.\\n\\n [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.] was the next flight, and he came storming in the office, said, \"You're going to tell me when I can fly?\" He just blew his stack. Well, I finally told him that our crew thought he was the best manipulator of the control arm of the whole bunch, and that settled him down. [Laughter]\\n\\n Everything in Mercury went along fine, considering. At the end of Mercury, we all went off to Washington and New York, quite an experience having a cocktail party at Disney's, and meeting the—who the cartoonist that just retired?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Charles [M.] Schultz?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Schultz was at that party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.594183432221065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that won't help much, but anyway, I don't think he had a fatality. But a couple of times I came awful close. Like for instance, Armstrong's [Gemini VIII] flight, boy, they came so damn close it was terrible. He landed in the ocean. The odds weren't too red hot of picking them out there in the middle of nowhere.\\n\\n But let's get back to—Carpenter's flight was the one after Glenn's, and he got so enamored with the scenery and the sparklers that he overshot by a couple hundred miles, and, of course, this is old news, probably an old story for you. But Walt Williams asked that we evaluate the astronauts from then on, you know, stability, because Carpenter, he should have paid more attention to what he was doing, but he didn't.\\n\\n [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.] was the next flight, and he came storming in the office, said, \"You're going to tell me when I can fly?\" He just blew his stack. Well, I finally told him that our crew thought he was the best manipulator of the control arm of the whole bunch, and that settled him down. [Laughter]\\n\\n Everything in Mercury went along fine, considering. At the end of Mercury, we all went off to Washington and New York, quite an experience having a cocktail party at Disney's, and meeting the—who the cartoonist that just retired?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Charles [M.] Schultz?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Schultz was at that party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, that was quite an occasion, but had nothing to do with the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but an interesting opportunity that came because you were involved in the program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.77131492469007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Schultz was at that party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, that was quite an occasion, but had nothing to do with the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but an interesting opportunity that came because you were involved in the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the advantages of this job is we were continually meeting people from hierarchy, I mean, presidents and kings and things like that, and having state dinners with them. That was just a sideline of our job. But they'd come parading through here. The Shah of Iran [Mohammad Reza Pahlevi] was here several times, and I guess people don't think too much of him, but he's a pretty impressive guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An aspect of the job you never expected, I'm sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.1903499163223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, that was quite an occasion, but had nothing to do with the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but an interesting opportunity that came because you were involved in the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the advantages of this job is we were continually meeting people from hierarchy, I mean, presidents and kings and things like that, and having state dinners with them. That was just a sideline of our job. But they'd come parading through here. The Shah of Iran [Mohammad Reza Pahlevi] was here several times, and I guess people don't think too much of him, but he's a pretty impressive guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An aspect of the job you never expected, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about Mercury still, were you involved at all with discussions or the setup of the network, the communications network?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.211499907024777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the advantages of this job is we were continually meeting people from hierarchy, I mean, presidents and kings and things like that, and having state dinners with them. That was just a sideline of our job. But they'd come parading through here. The Shah of Iran [Mohammad Reza Pahlevi] was here several times, and I guess people don't think too much of him, but he's a pretty impressive guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An aspect of the job you never expected, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about Mercury still, were you involved at all with discussions or the setup of the network, the communications network?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. Of course, the original control center was here in the beginning of Mercury, before they went to Houston, and that was the center of that network. Then later on, the network station here at MILA, is what it's called, Merritt Island Launch Area, was one of the prime ones of the whole network. But I never had too much to do with it. Never actually worked on the [unclear] or anything like that. That was essentially done by Goddard and a man back at Houston, Barry. Barry [Graves]. I got that far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that will give us a lead. We can find him in the paperwork, I'm sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.45722211891642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about Mercury still, were you involved at all with discussions or the setup of the network, the communications network?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. Of course, the original control center was here in the beginning of Mercury, before they went to Houston, and that was the center of that network. Then later on, the network station here at MILA, is what it's called, Merritt Island Launch Area, was one of the prime ones of the whole network. But I never had too much to do with it. Never actually worked on the [unclear] or anything like that. That was essentially done by Goddard and a man back at Houston, Barry. Barry [Graves]. I got that far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that will give us a lead. We can find him in the paperwork, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had enough to do without messing with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did. You mentioned the MR-1 flight that had had the problems and then having talked about the individual missions, and, of course, with the manned missions the abort system became a high priority. Were you involved in any of the work on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.39691346546269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. Of course, the original control center was here in the beginning of Mercury, before they went to Houston, and that was the center of that network. Then later on, the network station here at MILA, is what it's called, Merritt Island Launch Area, was one of the prime ones of the whole network. But I never had too much to do with it. Never actually worked on the [unclear] or anything like that. That was essentially done by Goddard and a man back at Houston, Barry. Barry [Graves]. I got that far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that will give us a lead. We can find him in the paperwork, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had enough to do without messing with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did. You mentioned the MR-1 flight that had had the problems and then having talked about the individual missions, and, of course, with the manned missions the abort system became a high priority. Were you involved in any of the work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you mean at Wallops? No, I wasn't involved in any of the tests at Wallops or White Sands [Test Facility, New Mexico], except I went out there once, I can't remember why, but it was some test that they—John [R.] Bailey, who was here as a NASA safety guy, sort of independent safety guy, who was a brilliant engineer, too, from Langley Flight Research. I went out there to review what they were doing, I guess, but I don't remember what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. You certainly had a lot of things you were involved with. I wouldn't expect you to remember everything."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.44101496162521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had enough to do without messing with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did. You mentioned the MR-1 flight that had had the problems and then having talked about the individual missions, and, of course, with the manned missions the abort system became a high priority. Were you involved in any of the work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you mean at Wallops? No, I wasn't involved in any of the tests at Wallops or White Sands [Test Facility, New Mexico], except I went out there once, I can't remember why, but it was some test that they—John [R.] Bailey, who was here as a NASA safety guy, sort of independent safety guy, who was a brilliant engineer, too, from Langley Flight Research. I went out there to review what they were doing, I guess, but I don't remember what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. You certainly had a lot of things you were involved with. I wouldn't expect you to remember everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but most of it was between here and the factory. Graves. [G.] Barry Graves was the network guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm familiar with his name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.712238846250234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you mean at Wallops? No, I wasn't involved in any of the tests at Wallops or White Sands [Test Facility, New Mexico], except I went out there once, I can't remember why, but it was some test that they—John [R.] Bailey, who was here as a NASA safety guy, sort of independent safety guy, who was a brilliant engineer, too, from Langley Flight Research. I went out there to review what they were doing, I guess, but I don't remember what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all right. You certainly had a lot of things you were involved with. I wouldn't expect you to remember everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but most of it was between here and the factory. Graves. [G.] Barry Graves was the network guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm familiar with his name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some I remember, some I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a lot of people."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.68026538472248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but most of it was between here and the factory. Graves. [G.] Barry Graves was the network guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm familiar with his name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some I remember, some I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a lot of people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was an awful lot of people that I got involved with between the beginning and end of my career.\\n\\n Now, right after—I think it's the first flight of Gemini, manned flight, Walt Williams retired, and Chris Kraft and I sort of split the jobs. I'd taken over what might be called—well, I was titled the launch mission director, and Kraft was still called the flight director. Kraft was nominally the head of the missions, but he delegated all this business down here to me, so that that was a change.\\n\\n One of the things that happened, I think it was on [L.] Gordon Cooper's flight in Gemini when it started raining and Gordon informed me through the net that raindrops were on the windshield. About that time Debus called me up and says, \"Why don't you…scrub?\" I had Ernie Ames [phonetic], the weatherman, sitting right there beside me, and I sent him out to see and he says, \"It's still out there.\" So we didn't scrub. Then about four or five minutes later, the lightning struck pad 34 and that was the end of that, because the lightning would strike, but the transit that it caused in the power system shut down all the computers, so we didn't have any choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good reason."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.249909136903648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was. We didn't even take the thing off the pad.\\n\\n Then, of course, the next real thing in Gemini was Gemini VIII with Armstrong, when his spacecraft spun up on him. I don't know how he ever got out that one, but he did. When he did abort and land in the ocean, here he was out in the middle of the Pacific, and I don't know how they found him, but they did. Actually, right after the launch, I went home since my job was over, and George [E.] Mueller, who was the head of manned space flight, was here and he had gone to the airport to go home on his airplane. All of a sudden he called me up to tell me what was going on and told me to pick him up, so I went back out to the Cape with George.\\n\\n Let's see, we're getting close.\\n\\n But as you well know, Gemini was unusually successful, is one thing I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good way to put it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did a lot of things that were necessary for Apollo. I don't think it really is appreciated, but a long-duration flight it took care of with the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank Borman and Jim [James A.] Lovell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Borman and Lovell. I mean, they had a miserable time, but the rendezvous techniques were developed, the docking techniques, the using a target vehicle for propulsion. I mean, all these things are things that were going to happen in Apollo, and, of course, the extravehicular activity, which was necessary. So Gemini was a very necessary part of getting to the Moon.\\n\\n I don't know whether anybody ever talked to you about the fact that during the middle of the Gemini program there were thoughts of sending it to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've heard a little bit about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.499899041004053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did a lot of things that were necessary for Apollo. I don't think it really is appreciated, but a long-duration flight it took care of with the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank Borman and Jim [James A.] Lovell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Borman and Lovell. I mean, they had a miserable time, but the rendezvous techniques were developed, the docking techniques, the using a target vehicle for propulsion. I mean, all these things are things that were going to happen in Apollo, and, of course, the extravehicular activity, which was necessary. So Gemini was a very necessary part of getting to the Moon.\\n\\n I don't know whether anybody ever talked to you about the fact that during the middle of the Gemini program there were thoughts of sending it to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've heard a little bit about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, you aren't going to hear too much more about it. [Laughter] But McDonnell, of course, was proposing that, and so was the Gemini program manager before Chuck Mathews. I believe it was the Canadian engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[James A.] Chamberlin?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.666554490004502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Borman and Lovell. I mean, they had a miserable time, but the rendezvous techniques were developed, the docking techniques, the using a target vehicle for propulsion. I mean, all these things are things that were going to happen in Apollo, and, of course, the extravehicular activity, which was necessary. So Gemini was a very necessary part of getting to the Moon.\\n\\n I don't know whether anybody ever talked to you about the fact that during the middle of the Gemini program there were thoughts of sending it to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've heard a little bit about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, you aren't going to hear too much more about it. [Laughter] But McDonnell, of course, was proposing that, and so was the Gemini program manager before Chuck Mathews. I believe it was the Canadian engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[James A.] Chamberlin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chamberlin, yes. Yes, he was hot after that, too. But it didn't, but there was that thought and it probably would have worked, but it needs a lot of changes from what it was, and it would be kind of miserable conditions flying that damn thing all the way to the Moon and back. I mean, it was bad enough in the Apollo, but that was terrible.\\n\\n Of course, we flew twelve flights of Gemini in twelve months and that was a smart contrast to what we did in Mercury. We really got with it about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had really developed the skills and the techniques."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.962838322227224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, you aren't going to hear too much more about it. [Laughter] But McDonnell, of course, was proposing that, and so was the Gemini program manager before Chuck Mathews. I believe it was the Canadian engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[James A.] Chamberlin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chamberlin, yes. Yes, he was hot after that, too. But it didn't, but there was that thought and it probably would have worked, but it needs a lot of changes from what it was, and it would be kind of miserable conditions flying that damn thing all the way to the Moon and back. I mean, it was bad enough in the Apollo, but that was terrible.\\n\\n Of course, we flew twelve flights of Gemini in twelve months and that was a smart contrast to what we did in Mercury. We really got with it about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had really developed the skills and the techniques."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a feeling of confidence in the hardware, which McDonnell gave you. They were a good contractor. On the last flight, though, I got the pleasure of going out to the recovery ship which was on the carrier, and made a carrier landing and then a carrier takeoff afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.403153691363581, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chamberlin, yes. Yes, he was hot after that, too. But it didn't, but there was that thought and it probably would have worked, but it needs a lot of changes from what it was, and it would be kind of miserable conditions flying that damn thing all the way to the Moon and back. I mean, it was bad enough in the Apollo, but that was terrible.\\n\\n Of course, we flew twelve flights of Gemini in twelve months and that was a smart contrast to what we did in Mercury. We really got with it about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had really developed the skills and the techniques."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a feeling of confidence in the hardware, which McDonnell gave you. They were a good contractor. On the last flight, though, I got the pleasure of going out to the recovery ship which was on the carrier, and made a carrier landing and then a carrier takeoff afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What amazed me was that during the night we ran into some big waves, and I mean big waves, and that whole damn carrier would shake, and, hell, that thing's tons, so I wouldn't think it would bother it, but it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an experience."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.892392990403978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a feeling of confidence in the hardware, which McDonnell gave you. They were a good contractor. On the last flight, though, I got the pleasure of going out to the recovery ship which was on the carrier, and made a carrier landing and then a carrier takeoff afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What amazed me was that during the night we ran into some big waves, and I mean big waves, and that whole damn carrier would shake, and, hell, that thing's tons, so I wouldn't think it would bother it, but it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was really surprising. I think that was just a bonus for the success of the Gemini program. Mueller and I were the only ones that went out, and I certainly enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we could pause here for a moment. [Tape changed.]\\n\\n You mentioned that toward the end of Gemini that you had then been going to transfer into—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.863335912074646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you see, fundamentally McDonnell, not McDonnell, but North American was the designer and developer of the X-15, and that was a very forward-looking piece of equipment, and so it came to a certain amount of confidence. Stormy—what was his last name? [Harrison A.] Storms, I guess—was real talented, but he didn't stay with it too long. I can't remember how long. He was president at one time, wasn't he?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was. But he didn't stay there that long. I never had a bad feeling about North American, although I had a very good feeling about McDonnell, because I'd been working with them so much, and particularly Yardley. But outside of Stormy, there wasn't anybody like Yardley. I mean, nobody stood out like that, and it would be unusual if there were. Stormy was good, but I don't know what happened. Do you know what happened to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think after the fire, I think is when he moved on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think he lasted that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.959262124527385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was. But he didn't stay there that long. I never had a bad feeling about North American, although I had a very good feeling about McDonnell, because I'd been working with them so much, and particularly Yardley. But outside of Stormy, there wasn't anybody like Yardley. I mean, nobody stood out like that, and it would be unusual if there were. Stormy was good, but I don't know what happened. Do you know what happened to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think after the fire, I think is when he moved on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think he lasted that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, because North American didn't want him to leave, but other people at NASA felt that it might be more appropriate that he did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.176957916141538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think he lasted that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, because North American didn't want him to leave, but other people at NASA felt that it might be more appropriate that he did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the president was not Stormy then, it was a guy that I was most—well, I shouldn't—turn the thing off. It's not appropriate to talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Not a problem.\\n\\n Were you very familiar with the differences between the Block I and then the Block II spacecraft on Apollo? You mentioned that you had been involved with the investigation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.243648706205665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. One point I might make is that [Joseph F.] Shea was not an airplane man, he was a computer man, and then I guess he had something to do with missiles, but there's a difference flying manned airplanes and some of these other kind of equipment. So his experience, he was an extremely talented engineer, but he lacked a certain sense of knowing about manned flight. I think Rocco [Petrone] initially was the same problem, because they never had any—I mean, Kraft and I both came out of the flight research, flying airplanes and not exactly safe airplanes while we were at it, either. However, nobody will ever really know and don't how I can—I think I better not say any more about that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's perfectly fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people might get excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved into the design engineering directorate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what your duties and roles were in that, what you were responsible for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.492943006895183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people might get excited about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You moved into the design engineering directorate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what your duties and roles were in that, what you were responsible for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us when you were in the design engineering directorate, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.436603340994647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what your duties and roles were in that, what you were responsible for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us when you were in the design engineering directorate, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was responsible for designing KSC, period, everything, but that included all the launch complexes, plus all the equipment in them, plus all the checkout gear to check out both vehicles. We were successful in doing that job for the spacecraft end of the deal, but Marshall, in its usual fashion, never gave up all its authority, and still hangs on to some of it.\\n\\n But it was a pretty neat job, actually. I was there, I don't know, about three or four years, but it was right through the critical part of the Apollo, from the fire on to the end of the Apollo program. I wasn't there for Skylab. I probably was in future programs by the time Skylab came along, and, of course, the Shuttle I was involved in as a project manager."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in the design directorate, were you involved at all with the missions themselves, or did you help in any of those when—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.201101976673042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only real involvement is that all the senior staff participated in what was called the launch readiness reviews. So I was always involved in those, but I think when I became involved in the Shuttle I didn't spend too much time on that. I was busy enough taking care of the Shuttle, so I didn't. Of course, the design reviews, I mean, the launch reviews were also considering of the ground equipment, so I was there for the fact that they were covering my equipment, too. But as far as the flight hardware, I didn't really have much to do with it except the mate between that and the ground equipment.\\n\\n You know, I was amazed, though, when after I'd been a designer and it came to the first Saturn V launch, and I stood there and watched those massive swing arms move, but not only move, but the instant of liftoff. I mean, while liftoff was going on, and, boy, I'm telling you, that gave me as big a shudder as Shepard's flight. I mean, that really thrilled you, because, boy, that could have ruined the whole day. I think there were eleven of them, and, boy, those things were huge. They still are, or what's there. But they worked. I had my moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been quite remarkable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. People tend to think only of the flight hardware, but I soon learned that those kids and boys were doing a big job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly everything on the ground and all the people are required to make the missions happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the first Saturn V launch. Was this an unmanned one or was this the Apollo 8 launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.223446640747825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. People tend to think only of the flight hardware, but I soon learned that those kids and boys were doing a big job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly everything on the ground and all the people are required to make the missions happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the first Saturn V launch. Was this an unmanned one or was this the Apollo 8 launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was the unmanned one before Apollo 8. But even Apollo 8, though, you just couldn't believe that they were going to do that. I didn't have any input into doing it or not doing it, except wanting to get on with it, but, boy, I'm telling you that was a huge step. I wonder how the three astronauts really—they must have gone into that with a certain amount of destiny in their thinking, because the odds were greatly unfavorable. I mean, hell, how in the world could we expect to do that? But we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily it was quite a success."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.24827404527536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the first Saturn V launch. Was this an unmanned one or was this the Apollo 8 launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was the unmanned one before Apollo 8. But even Apollo 8, though, you just couldn't believe that they were going to do that. I didn't have any input into doing it or not doing it, except wanting to get on with it, but, boy, I'm telling you that was a huge step. I wonder how the three astronauts really—they must have gone into that with a certain amount of destiny in their thinking, because the odds were greatly unfavorable. I mean, hell, how in the world could we expect to do that? But we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily it was quite a success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was a tremendous success. You know it changed the whole environmental attitude of the world when they saw that picture of the Earth. I mean, it did more than to advance the environmentalism than anything that ever happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly gives you a whole new perspective."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.386971161417067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was the unmanned one before Apollo 8. But even Apollo 8, though, you just couldn't believe that they were going to do that. I didn't have any input into doing it or not doing it, except wanting to get on with it, but, boy, I'm telling you that was a huge step. I wonder how the three astronauts really—they must have gone into that with a certain amount of destiny in their thinking, because the odds were greatly unfavorable. I mean, hell, how in the world could we expect to do that? But we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily it was quite a success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was a tremendous success. You know it changed the whole environmental attitude of the world when they saw that picture of the Earth. I mean, it did more than to advance the environmentalism than anything that ever happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly gives you a whole new perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about the missions, even though you weren't directly involved with them, Apollo 8, of course, was a very big step and then Apollo 11 was, of course, the landing. Did you watch that one and then do you recall where you were when they landed on the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.541079068241185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was a tremendous success. You know it changed the whole environmental attitude of the world when they saw that picture of the Earth. I mean, it did more than to advance the environmentalism than anything that ever happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly gives you a whole new perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about the missions, even though you weren't directly involved with them, Apollo 8, of course, was a very big step and then Apollo 11 was, of course, the landing. Did you watch that one and then do you recall where you were when they landed on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I was—when you see the next launch, you'll see a plexiglass cage over behind the launch director. That's where I was. That's where almost, well, all the senior staff that weren't down on the floor were located in case a problem came up. Then I came home and watched it on TV, of course, and stayed up until the middle of the night. In fact, what time did it land? I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty close to the middle of the night, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.823421186934649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about the missions, even though you weren't directly involved with them, Apollo 8, of course, was a very big step and then Apollo 11 was, of course, the landing. Did you watch that one and then do you recall where you were when they landed on the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I was—when you see the next launch, you'll see a plexiglass cage over behind the launch director. That's where I was. That's where almost, well, all the senior staff that weren't down on the floor were located in case a problem came up. Then I came home and watched it on TV, of course, and stayed up until the middle of the night. In fact, what time did it land? I've forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was pretty close to the middle of the night, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty late, I remember that. But anyway, that's my normal procedure, anyway, even when I was involved, because once it lifted off, there wasn't a damn thing I could do, and they knew where to get me if they had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Must have been good to see it all come together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.996462533518034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I told you earlier, Kraft bailed me out quite often, but I'd sit here, I never was comfortable until the thing landed again, because something could go wrong and it could be something we did and usually was. You know, that's where Kraft did me a big favor in fixing them.\\n\\n We'd better get on. We're getting close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we've already gone over that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Referring to notes] Hey, we're on the last page. On the Shuttle program, KSC participated more intensely in the design of the spacecraft than it ever had before. I mean, it was heavily involved, not the spacecraft, the Shuttle, and it was there mainly to give operational aspects of design. I had developed a team from throughout the center of probably twenty to thirty people, specialists in each area that would go out to design reviews, and then when they got around to start cutting hardware, that group would go.\\n\\n Bob Thompson and I were old friends from Mercury, all the way back to Mercury, and we understood each other. That's where I got him to assign the responsibility for all the ground equipment to KSC to design and build, which was a big boost to KSC. KSC sort of felt like an orphan child and that's the way ABMA treated them. But we participated in the selection of the Shuttle contractor very heavily with, I guess, fifteen people that were out at Houston for almost—not almost, a month, at least, at Houston while that review was going on, and had some very strong comments about the design so that we were really involved in that program.\\n\\n As I said, I don't know if I'm bringing it up again, but I was disappointed in McDonnell and Yardley not getting that contract, but it later turned out that it wasn't that bad. But you had something that you knew and trusted that you all of a sudden had to give up. Besides, Yardley was really the father of the Shuttle in the configuration as it ended up. I still don't know what he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Shuttle was so different from the earlier programs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.864445257610171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I decided maybe I'd better get out of here. Really it was because I wasn't going to be there when they flew, because that was several years off and I left it in competent hands. Andy Pickett was my deputy and then Bob—oh, boy. He's the old unmanned operations guy. One from Goddard. Bob. He'll kill me for not remembering his name. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll look it up in the records and we'll slip it in the transcript so that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You slip it in so they won't know who it is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll put it in the transcript. We'll make sure his name gets in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know him as well as I know anybody. You get old, you have these lapses. I'm surprised I remembered as many as I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I have them, too. You're doing very well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.404939175122413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You slip it in so they won't know who it is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll put it in the transcript. We'll make sure his name gets in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know him as well as I know anybody. You get old, you have these lapses. I'm surprised I remembered as many as I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I have them, too. You're doing very well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I'm about done, at least from—if you want to ask some questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you do any other work after retiring, or did you just retire and relax?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.011186061762555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Anyway, in building a house I'd bought all the hardware, the door knobs and all the locks, and I had them in the back of my truck. I came out that night and they were all gone. I found out the brother of the contractor had taken them. I mean, that's the kind they were, so I just didn't enjoy it. I mean, after working with NACA and NASA, those are different people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different. Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never saw anybody with that attitude in that time frame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if there had been anyone like that, the space program wouldn't have been the success it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just don't think there were. I think they were motivated to be better than that. Even the mechanics and that type of people, they were real high-grade people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly had a good goal to be shooting for, and people really wanted to make it happen."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.790206735291726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never saw anybody with that attitude in that time frame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if there had been anyone like that, the space program wouldn't have been the success it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just don't think there were. I think they were motivated to be better than that. Even the mechanics and that type of people, they were real high-grade people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly had a good goal to be shooting for, and people really wanted to make it happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were proud of what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely something to be very proud of."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.96321819171818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were proud of what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely something to be very proud of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you know when you're flying airplanes, you don't goof off like that either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because your life's at stake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple just final questions. Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you consider your most challenging moment or the biggest challenge that you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.292464657464645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you know when you're flying airplanes, you don't goof off like that either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because your life's at stake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A couple just final questions. Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you consider your most challenging moment or the biggest challenge that you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most challenging moment. It can't be one, but one of them, of course, was the Gemini turnaround and launch in 76. The Shuttle program was a big challenge, and then, of course, lunar landing, they all three were tremendous challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They certainly were."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.93387636956535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure did. It's an awful good school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's different than the other technical schools in that this was fundamentally an undergraduate school, whereas MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology] is basically a graduate school and so is Cal Tech [California Institute of Technology]. They do have undergraduates, but I don't think they're as good as Rensselaer, and there are a lot of good undergraduate engineering schools. I had a hard time making up my mind about [University of] Michigan and Purdue [University] and Georgia Tech [Georgia Institute of Technology]. My dad finally convinced me to go to Rensselaer because a former resident in our hometown was from there and he happened to run into him and he talked him into it. I sure was never against that decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you have to have some factor that outweighs all the others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the one that was going to pay the bill, so I couldn't argue with him. Back in those days, I think when I first went to Rensselaer it was 200 dollars a semester. Now, boy, it's something like 10 or 12,000. I don't know, maybe it's even higher. Terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's pretty expensive now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.815418188405946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's different than the other technical schools in that this was fundamentally an undergraduate school, whereas MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology] is basically a graduate school and so is Cal Tech [California Institute of Technology]. They do have undergraduates, but I don't think they're as good as Rensselaer, and there are a lot of good undergraduate engineering schools. I had a hard time making up my mind about [University of] Michigan and Purdue [University] and Georgia Tech [Georgia Institute of Technology]. My dad finally convinced me to go to Rensselaer because a former resident in our hometown was from there and he happened to run into him and he talked him into it. I sure was never against that decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you have to have some factor that outweighs all the others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was the one that was going to pay the bill, so I couldn't argue with him. Back in those days, I think when I first went to Rensselaer it was 200 dollars a semester. Now, boy, it's something like 10 or 12,000. I don't know, maybe it's even higher. Terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's pretty expensive now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second year they raised it to 400."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've certainly seen quite a few changes in everything from finances to technology over your career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.06841751655055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second year they raised it to 400."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've certainly seen quite a few changes in everything from finances to technology over your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. When I was in high school, my friends were all taking pilot training in [Piper] Cubs, if you know what a Cub is. Most of them were soloing in a matter of four or five hours, and most of them didn't do anything about it. So I never got around to it, mainly because I thought it was too damned expensive, because it was expensive even back then, particularly in light of what the economy was then. In the middle thirties things weren't running too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was surprised my dad could send me away to school, but he just the year before got the job as county treasurer, which gave him an income. Before that he had three department stores, which the Depression took care of all three of them, one at a time. So things were a little rough, but could have been a lot worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly could have. It sounds like it worked out pretty well in the long run."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.742686129500611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. When I was in high school, my friends were all taking pilot training in [Piper] Cubs, if you know what a Cub is. Most of them were soloing in a matter of four or five hours, and most of them didn't do anything about it. So I never got around to it, mainly because I thought it was too damned expensive, because it was expensive even back then, particularly in light of what the economy was then. In the middle thirties things weren't running too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was surprised my dad could send me away to school, but he just the year before got the job as county treasurer, which gave him an income. Before that he had three department stores, which the Depression took care of all three of them, one at a time. So things were a little rough, but could have been a lot worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly could have. It sounds like it worked out pretty well in the long run."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, looking at your career with NASA, is there any one point or a couple points that you feel you made your greatest contribution to the program or your most significant accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.324303863581001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, looking at your career with NASA, is there any one point or a couple points that you feel you made your greatest contribution to the program or your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the latest would be the Shuttle program. I made a fairly significant contribution mostly in the design of the Shuttle and design of the ground system to go with it. Yes, we made a very big contribution for that, and participated pretty well. In all the previous programs, KSC's input was sort of incidental, but ours became, particularly with Thompson's appreciation and recognition, involved us more heavily and more rigidly than before. So that we did make a very significant impression. But of course, all the programs. Gemini, I think, was more, I was more responsible than Mercury or Apollo. More self-satisfying. I think we accomplished an awful lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the longer the space program went on, the more diluted it got, as far as people were concerned. It started out there weren't very many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The program certainly grew a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.249226515090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the latest would be the Shuttle program. I made a fairly significant contribution mostly in the design of the Shuttle and design of the ground system to go with it. Yes, we made a very big contribution for that, and participated pretty well. In all the previous programs, KSC's input was sort of incidental, but ours became, particularly with Thompson's appreciation and recognition, involved us more heavily and more rigidly than before. So that we did make a very significant impression. But of course, all the programs. Gemini, I think, was more, I was more responsible than Mercury or Apollo. More self-satisfying. I think we accomplished an awful lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the longer the space program went on, the more diluted it got, as far as people were concerned. It started out there weren't very many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The program certainly grew a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I can't remember how many was in Space Task Group. I remember there were only about twenty-five in this organization down here, and it grew to about five hundred before it went into KSC. Some of that might have been more than necessary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were able to accomplish the goal and bring it all together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 10.2769183501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the longer the space program went on, the more diluted it got, as far as people were concerned. It started out there weren't very many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The program certainly grew a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I can't remember how many was in Space Task Group. I remember there were only about twenty-five in this organization down here, and it grew to about five hundred before it went into KSC. Some of that might have been more than necessary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were able to accomplish the goal and bring it all together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think we did. Did you get a chance to answer any of your questions?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I got most of mine covered. I'd like to ask Kevin real quickly if he has any to tie things off.\n\nI just had a couple. First, it's more sort of a general question. When you first got down here, you know, in the first few weeks, what was the atmosphere like? What was it like being down here, how were things being run, and what were the big tasks you had to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:228", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.994541000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Your turn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I've pretty much got mine covered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got any more?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had heard stories about things like them bringing the first Mercury capsules out to the pads in the back of a pickup truck on top of plywood and mattresses and just having little roped-off areas of the hangar, those kinds of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would have had to have been Big Joe, if it was. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true, but I don't think we had any carrier vehicle. I really don't remember, but as I said, I wouldn't be surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just pulling things all together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:230", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5494900000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got any more?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had heard stories about things like them bringing the first Mercury capsules out to the pads in the back of a pickup truck on top of plywood and mattresses and just having little roped-off areas of the hangar, those kinds of—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would have had to have been Big Joe, if it was. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true, but I don't think we had any carrier vehicle. I really don't remember, but as I said, I wouldn't be surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just pulling things all together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to do things rather differently. I imagine the people on the ridge got a kick out of that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that seems to be what they said."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.1661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would have had to have been Big Joe, if it was. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true, but I don't think we had any carrier vehicle. I really don't remember, but as I said, I wouldn't be surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just pulling things all together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to do things rather differently. I imagine the people on the ridge got a kick out of that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that seems to be what they said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get it done, that's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That's why I was wondering how primitive were the facilities to get the technical job done here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:234", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to do things rather differently. I imagine the people on the ridge got a kick out of that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that seems to be what they said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get it done, that's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That's why I was wondering how primitive were the facilities to get the technical job done here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when we first came with the real piece of hardware—Bob Gray is the guy I was trying to think of in charge of the unmanned. He used Hangar S for his unmanned launches and he had what was called a white room, which was about half as big as this house, where he did all his work in. Mel Gough kicked them all out of the hangar and let us in. I don't think that was right. I don't think Bob ever forgave him. We took over the hangar. I don't even know where he ended up.\\n\\n But the hangar was our total—it had offices on each side built into the hangar, but shortly after that they built a lean-to sheetmetal building on the north side of that building. That was our first change. Then later they built a building out front for engineering offices. The further I got away from it, the further I got away from the intimacy of the work.\\n\\n You keep losing track in the middle of a—go on, your turn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of the other facilities at KSC that they were building really for the Apollo program, things like the VAB [Vehicle Assembly Building], did you have anything to do with those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00476:242", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I called it chicken feed. [Laughter] But they quit talking, they quit asking, but it was truthful. I mean, it was at least a hundred-to-one ratio between what I was asking and what they were asking. But they sure gave me the going-over.\\n\\n I'm trying to think of the head of the manned space flight subcommittee. He's from Texas. He's dead now, but he was one of our best supporters. His nephew was a priest at our church, and now I can't remember his name, but anyway, he was one on our side, and fortunately he was the chairman of the subcommittee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Olin [E.] Teague?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teague. Yes. He was a great guy, particularly when he took care of us. But all through the Mercury and Gemini program he—I don't know when he resigned. I think it was probably in the Gemini program somewhere. I don't think he was in the Apollo. I really don't know. I have no way of knowing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can certainly look up the dates on that.\n\nWell, that was all the questions I had, so thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. You'd better get going. Oh, it's canceled [referring to the STS-99 launch]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. But we certainly want to thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00147:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hope so. See grandkids, travel some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And enjoy yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t talked about over these last two sessions that you wanted to mention that we just didn’t get around to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I would have to emphasize one last time I think I have some scars that could have been prevented if management had been a little more into people management. I’d like to see JSC and the future space program do a little bit more about managing people. I think there’s been some efforts there, but I think they get gobbled up by the next technical problem you’ve got to wrestle with. I think there should be some balancing of selecting people in the management chain based on their people management and mentoring skills versus strictly their technical skills. If I could leave one message for JSC, that’s probably what I would talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right. Well, we thank you for joining us."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.590503754786756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Treasury, Treasury records and then the judicial cluster was the courts, the Supreme Court and Justice Department. I started actually in fiscal records. I was working with Terry Matchette, who was at that time an archives technician working in Coast Guard. And so my first records were actually those Coast Guard records that we've talked about so often. And my my first letter ever was a reference report. And I had, I had no idea of the significance of being able to sign something, but Terry was so happy I got to sign something as an intern, because at that time, you know, nobody got to sign their own letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so. My first letter I ever did was a reference report on a lighthouse. And she walked me through the whole thing and then I got to sign it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, wow. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, boy things have changed."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.98944861642973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so. My first letter I ever did was a reference report on a lighthouse. And she walked me through the whole thing and then I got to sign it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, wow. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, boy things have changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "10-E-2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was going to ask you about training, but that was done during your internship."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.43272068492192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, wow. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, boy things have changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "10-E-2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was going to ask you about training, but that was done during your internship."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was in this and when I came back in ’80, I was in the CIDS program, so I did the two-year, Career Intern Development System training that was in place at that time. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that pretty much the same as it later came to be? Was it rotations?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.604439034477803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And computers, right? Yeah, we got a, there was a technology assessment staff at that time, a guy named Bill Holmes had come from Social Security or something. And the Archivist had created this kind of think tank, he thought, and Roger (unintelligible) was part of that. And they had purchased several of these LANs, local area networks that were produced by Radio Shack. And it was a CPU (shrugs negatively) and had 8-inch disks. I mean, it was … and then you had these terminals that came off of it. So you could have, we had, in the outer office, you had one big unit and then two side terminals that people could use, and they could then store their stuff on this CPU. And we also had this little laptop. And I could take the little laptop into the stack and let them enter the stuff, because we didn’t want to bring the records out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they would go in the stack and enter all this information and come back and then Holmes had written me this little dump program, so I could dump the stuff into the computer, and then we could produce a roll list and box labels, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So those little, little pin-fed box labels that are on some of those rolls, that came from that RadioShack computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knew it was going to be 30 years later--"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.560487816086447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they would go in the stack and enter all this information and come back and then Holmes had written me this little dump program, so I could dump the stuff into the computer, and then we could produce a roll list and box labels, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So those little, little pin-fed box labels that are on some of those rolls, that came from that RadioShack computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knew it was going to be 30 years later--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 years later, they’d still be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And still our finding aid."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.844986462318275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So those little, little pin-fed box labels that are on some of those rolls, that came from that RadioShack computer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knew it was going to be 30 years later--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 years later, they’d still be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And still our finding aid."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You got it. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And actually, probably the most useful way of creating finding aids that we have is those. OK, well, it's better than a box list.\n\nExactly--what's better than a box list? Knowing what's in the box is half the battle."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 45.10658345157119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did a paper, I did a presentation for an SAA conference for the management roundtable. And it was about the corporate culture of different institutions, archival institutions; it was actually kind of a fun panel. And I did ours. And what I discovered when I went through this exercise that you do to figure out what the culture is like, that we were about substance. We were about being right. And not about form. Pretty wasn't as important as right. And so that, that, I think, is pretty much who we were. It was, it was a really--everybody was here for the same purpose, to preserve and make available the records. And I mean that it was a really kind of collegial, collegial place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Yeah. So I was going to ask you about the typical day, but it sounds like you just described that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did work in there. (Both laugh)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a question about what was significant about the records you worked with. But, Supreme Court, that's kind of obvious. And fiscal and judicial, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The significance of the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Or how interest and demand might have changed over time."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 50.74886845872986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The significance of the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Or how interest and demand might have changed over time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. The Treasury records, the early Treasury records, are kind of expansive, in that they document all the government. I mean, everything that the government did is documented in financial records. And so the Treasury cluster included at that time, RG 217, the what was then called the General Accounting Office. It’s now Auditors of the Treasury. But that record group was a go-to place for finding all sorts of information about the way the government operated, from the transportation accounts of the individual members of Congress to horse claims, how many horses did some farmer give to the Union Army? You know. I mean, there was, there was so much information there about everything, that, I guess, that was the most challenging body of material and probably one of the richest sources that has never been mined because it's so bloody difficult to use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there's just an incredible amount of information in there. Those records are so significant. I don't know. We've never been able to actually get a good handle on them because of the vagaries of time. I think finding aids for some very complicated series were never accessioned or were never created. I mean, maybe they were all two-legged finding aids, that’s certainly a possibility. But those--underutilized because they're so difficult but so significant, some of the oldest records we have in this institution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't always in reference, didn’t you move out, do some other work as well before you went into management?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.68698616188226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! Because I hired you. (Laughter from both)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. You did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I hired some really cool people, actually. Deb Wall. She was Deb Steidel at the time. I hired, you know, really important people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was about ’88, ’89?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was ’86, ’87."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that right, OK. Yeah. And then I, then I was--Tom Brown was the head of the administrative staff at that time. Then I was his deputy, and we hired Mary Rephlo to take over staff development. And then I got the head of, I got Tom's job when he went to work in what became Electronic.\n\nWas that NNB or something like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 44.09665129098029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I hired some really cool people, actually. Deb Wall. She was Deb Steidel at the time. I hired, you know, really important people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was about ’88, ’89?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was ’86, ’87."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that right, OK. Yeah. And then I, then I was--Tom Brown was the head of the administrative staff at that time. Then I was his deputy, and we hired Mary Rephlo to take over staff development. And then I got the head of, I got Tom's job when he went to work in what became Electronic.\n\nWas that NNB or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. NNB."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, um, I guess we'll move into challenges and issues you've encountered in your career,"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.89384139382019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they only did the cards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's form over over substance. That's what that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, that’s disappointing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that happened. And I think, I think in terms of morale and that professional camaraderie that I mentioned earlier, something happened in there that just, it changed, it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any significant controversies that we haven't talked about? I was going to ask you, I guess, when this assembly was first created. Were you around for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.993157104244652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's form over over substance. That's what that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, that’s disappointing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that happened. And I think, I think in terms of morale and that professional camaraderie that I mentioned earlier, something happened in there that just, it changed, it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any significant controversies that we haven't talked about? I was going to ask you, I guess, when this assembly was first created. Were you around for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah. I was not part of the cabal. I wasn't high enough in the, I was just a CIDS trainee at the time, but I attended that first organizational meeting at the auditorium on the sixth floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a Saturday, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 32.06194390157017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On a Saturday, we all came in on a Saturday. What had happened was that there was a new administrator at GSA, Admiral Freeman, and Admiral Freeman came in and wanted to cut costs. And he looked at the Archives and he said, “We have all these facilities out in the regions out all over the country, but they don't have many records. All the records are here in Washington. Why don't we ship some of them out? And he proposed creating subject centers, so World War One would be in Fort Worth or--you know, that was his proposal. And that would save a ton of money because rent was cheaper out in the hinterlands and staffing was cheaper out in the hinterlands, and, you know, NARS could finally, you know, be part of the cost cutting effort. And the hue and cry from the research community and from the professional community was huge, just huge. The destruction of provenance, just taking record groups apart was beyond anybody's comprehension. And so the staff actually became very active, and the Assembly became our voice at the time. And so I was a member right away. I helped out on the newsletter, The New Archivist. I helped type it and write articles for it. I wrote a column for a number of years called, “Did You Know?” Just stuff that people might not have been aware of, because we didn't have email and it was, you know, no Internet at the time. And I never actually held office in the Assembly. I'm not sure why, but the timing was just never right. They did ask me several times to do several different things. And I just, the timing wasn't right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So ultimately, ultimately, what happened to the admiral?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The Post did a nice little piece about him and it said that he had dropped anchor in the Federal Triangle, and we had then gone after him with our torpedoes (both laugh) And he didn't like it much. So he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the beginning of independence, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.291048779522406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The Post did a nice little piece about him and it said that he had dropped anchor in the Federal Triangle, and we had then gone after him with our torpedoes (both laugh) And he didn't like it much. So he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the beginning of independence, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was the beginning of independence. And at the same time that the Assembly was doing that, Bob Warner, who was the new Archivist of the United States, was busily trying to put together support for an independent National Archives, which occurred in 1985. The Assembly was part of that whole effort, always was. And Bob Warner credited the administrators of General Services for their help in gaining independence, because he said if they hadn't been so stupid, we'd probably still be part of GSA. Admiral Freeman was followed by Gerald Carmen, who is, was a used tire salesman from New Hampshire. And Adrienne Thomas decided, recommended that we make some T-shirts with the state motto of New Hampshire, which was “Live Free or Die” and put “National Archives” under it. (both laugh) We had T-shirts made, the Assembly did, had the T-shirts made. But anyway, Carmen was remembered most because he said, he came to to talk to the staff here, and he said to us that we were the jewel in the crown of the General Services Administration, and that every time he walked in the building, it made him tingle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and so that's the source of the quote."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.767831977247116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The Post did a nice little piece about him and it said that he had dropped anchor in the Federal Triangle, and we had then gone after him with our torpedoes (both laugh) And he didn't like it much. So he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the beginning of independence, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was the beginning of independence. And at the same time that the Assembly was doing that, Bob Warner, who was the new Archivist of the United States, was busily trying to put together support for an independent National Archives, which occurred in 1985. The Assembly was part of that whole effort, always was. And Bob Warner credited the administrators of General Services for their help in gaining independence, because he said if they hadn't been so stupid, we'd probably still be part of GSA. Admiral Freeman was followed by Gerald Carmen, who is, was a used tire salesman from New Hampshire. And Adrienne Thomas decided, recommended that we make some T-shirts with the state motto of New Hampshire, which was “Live Free or Die” and put “National Archives” under it. (both laugh) We had T-shirts made, the Assembly did, had the T-shirts made. But anyway, Carmen was remembered most because he said, he came to to talk to the staff here, and he said to us that we were the jewel in the crown of the General Services Administration, and that every time he walked in the building, it made him tingle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and so that's the source of the quote."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NARS makes me tingle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now we know."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.40870219694124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was the beginning of independence. And at the same time that the Assembly was doing that, Bob Warner, who was the new Archivist of the United States, was busily trying to put together support for an independent National Archives, which occurred in 1985. The Assembly was part of that whole effort, always was. And Bob Warner credited the administrators of General Services for their help in gaining independence, because he said if they hadn't been so stupid, we'd probably still be part of GSA. Admiral Freeman was followed by Gerald Carmen, who is, was a used tire salesman from New Hampshire. And Adrienne Thomas decided, recommended that we make some T-shirts with the state motto of New Hampshire, which was “Live Free or Die” and put “National Archives” under it. (both laugh) We had T-shirts made, the Assembly did, had the T-shirts made. But anyway, Carmen was remembered most because he said, he came to to talk to the staff here, and he said to us that we were the jewel in the crown of the General Services Administration, and that every time he walked in the building, it made him tingle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and so that's the source of the quote."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NARS makes me tingle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now we know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerald Carmen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is revealed. (Cindi laugh Well, let's talk about some of the things you brought. And I also had a question about Mary Walton Livingston and her role in the resignation of Nixon. Did she, didn’t she find something? A document that was dated ..."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.961360736964487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerald Carmen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is revealed. (Cindi laugh Well, let's talk about some of the things you brought. And I also had a question about Mary Walton Livingston and her role in the resignation of Nixon. Did she, didn’t she find something? A document that was dated ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Richard Nixon had a collection of vice presidential papers, and he was going to donate them at some point to the Eisenhower Library, or to his own library had he been elected. And they were going to change the law about whether or not he could take a tax writeoff for the donation. And so he asked the then-administrator to backdate the deed of gift so that it would fall under the previous rule, and he'd be able to take the tax writeoff, and they would be donated to the Eisenhower rather than holding on to them for the Nixon Library. And Mrs. Livingston worked in Presidential Libraries at the time. And she refused to do it. And so that was the big flap about Mary Walton. She, she was just too honorable. She wasn’t going to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it became known that he had attempted to, to bend the rules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see, OK, interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 26.623734152182763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Richard Nixon had a collection of vice presidential papers, and he was going to donate them at some point to the Eisenhower Library, or to his own library had he been elected. And they were going to change the law about whether or not he could take a tax writeoff for the donation. And so he asked the then-administrator to backdate the deed of gift so that it would fall under the previous rule, and he'd be able to take the tax writeoff, and they would be donated to the Eisenhower rather than holding on to them for the Nixon Library. And Mrs. Livingston worked in Presidential Libraries at the time. And she refused to do it. And so that was the big flap about Mary Walton. She, she was just too honorable. She wasn’t going to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it became known that he had attempted to, to bend the rules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see, OK, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That predated me, though. I wasn’t here then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, well, what have you brought to show us?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 14.259616144159063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's, that's what that is. (holds it up again) And you can see Henry Kissinger's initials and the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, Agnew's resignation letter never made it here. They say we lost it, but we didn't. It never came. That's one of the reasons why they got this one over here so fast, that afternoon it was delivered here. They didn't want it to go missing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I guess not. That’d be the end of that."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2094439020866665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. So you know, I mean it was very, it was a very different feel and Archives II is a horizontal building, not a vertical building. So you don't run into people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's so huge that you have very little chance of running into people. So it's a different feel. And in this building, Jim McGronigle, who was the head of administration, decided he didn't like the tables being moved around in the snack bar. So he had them bolted to the floor. He got booths and that cut down on the, you know, the kind of camaraderie thing that was going on down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Strange thing to do."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4549376689851847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's so huge that you have very little chance of running into people. So it's a different feel. And in this building, Jim McGronigle, who was the head of administration, decided he didn't like the tables being moved around in the snack bar. So he had them bolted to the floor. He got booths and that cut down on the, you know, the kind of camaraderie thing that was going on down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Strange thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some people are weird."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got that right. Well I think, you know, a lot of the criticism about, you know, the employees or people at work here have, is that there is the stovepiping has always been an issue, and communication, and it just seems to get worse. It's never resolved."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7277085210946495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Strange thing to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Some people are weird."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got that right. Well I think, you know, a lot of the criticism about, you know, the employees or people at work here have, is that there is the stovepiping has always been an issue, and communication, and it just seems to get worse. It's never resolved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I don't know if there is a way to do it when we're physically separated, but that's no longer supposed to be an issue with social media, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3699705364810004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Um, I guess my problem with the way things evolved, and I'm as guilty as anybody of hitting the forward button and, you know, we used to have, and they used to make us have, branch meetings, where people had to sit down together and, you know, see the faces of the other people in the unit and find out what they did. And at the end of my career, I was as guilty as anybody of relying almost entirely on electronic transmission. We were the big branch. You know, we had all those people, 70-some-odd employees, and it was just kind of overwhelming to try to get them all in one place at one time other than for the Christmas party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, so, but you lose something in doing it that way. And I'm trying really hard now that I'm no longer working and I'm retired, I'm trying really hard to call people, because it is so easy to email, and it is so, you know. But it's, you lose something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm trying really hard to stay in touch with some people and have lunch with them. And I'm trying really hard to remember to call instead of just emailing. But you know, I’m as guilty as anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well it's hard, it’s difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You got to be fast on your feet. You got researchers beating you up over here, you got managers beating you over there. You have to be quick. And if somebody is putting up little notes telling you, you're not going to, you know. But I, I, I have to say the 31 years I've spent here were good years. I, I love this place. I love what we do. Loved, love what we did, what I did. I love what you do. And I, I honestly and truthfully believe that most of the people who work here are here for the same purpose, which gives you such a feeling of pride, you know, when you do a good job. That, and I always loved reference, because it had that psychic pay thing, you know. Of course, I never, I never understood why it was you work really, really hard for somebody and they just, “Oh, OK, fine.” And then you would do like nothing for somebody, and they would be, “My God! This is what I've been looking for my whole life.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had an email from somebody, he wanted to know if we had deck logs for a Navy vessel. And I said, “Yeah, we have those, and we have them for these dates.” And he wrote me back all in capital letters, “Hot Dog, exclamation point.” I just laughed at my desk. I thought, that's great, you know? I never had that response before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot dog! No, I’ve got, I have a folder of fan mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my early days. And I kept things, you know, people would write just reams, three pages of “Oh, you have just made my day, and “oh my golly.” And then you would work really, really hard finding something for somebody in a complex body of material. And they would look at it and go, “Oh yeah, OK.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not what I wanted. (laughs)"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hot dog! No, I’ve got, I have a folder of fan mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my early days. And I kept things, you know, people would write just reams, three pages of “Oh, you have just made my day, and “oh my golly.” And then you would work really, really hard finding something for somebody in a complex body of material. And they would look at it and go, “Oh yeah, OK.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not what I wanted. (laughs)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "“You haven't even looked at it, how do you know, it's not what you wanted?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. It has its … but it all balances out in the end, right."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From my early days. And I kept things, you know, people would write just reams, three pages of “Oh, you have just made my day, and “oh my golly.” And then you would work really, really hard finding something for somebody in a complex body of material. And they would look at it and go, “Oh yeah, OK.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not what I wanted. (laughs)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "“You haven't even looked at it, how do you know, it's not what you wanted?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. It has its … but it all balances out in the end, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah that's right. In the end, in the final analysis, it all comes home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else you'd like to talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah that's right. In the end, in the final analysis, it all comes home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else you'd like to talk about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so we now know where NARS makes me tingle came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we know about Mary Walton Livingston, yes. Is there anything else from my my dim past? (Laughs)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think there's a lot in the in here that has come to light. Perhaps you don't realize yet. (Both laugh)"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00004:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so we now know where NARS makes me tingle came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we know about Mary Walton Livingston, yes. Is there anything else from my my dim past? (Laughs)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think there's a lot in the in here that has come to light. Perhaps you don't realize yet. (Both laugh)"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you, Cindi."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 46.15653875314158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess they felt they had a greater need at that time here than they did there. It was just starting to build up here. Nobody had moved into the Center yet. We were scattered in offices all over the southeastern part of Houston, and the Public Affairs Office was in a building over on Griggs Road. So it was just the start of the buildup, and they wanted to get people here and ready to move into the new Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your impressions when you first moved to Houston from California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, during my three or four months in California with NASA, I had been here several times. In fact, I went to MA-9 [Mercury Atlas 9] the last Mercury mission down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], and I had been here several other times. So I knew what to expect. My wife was a little bit different. About the time we were getting ready to move,\\n\\n Time\\n\\n magazine published an article about Houston and made the point that the British Foreign Service paid hardship pay for people who were stationed here, which gave her a little pause.\\n\\n But, no, we’ve enjoyed it. It was not near as a transient area as California was, and people were friendly. The biggest drawback, of course, was the humidity and the heat, but that’s been thirty-nine years ago, I guess. So we’ve withstood it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came to Houston, it was the end of Mercury, the beginning of Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during the Gemini Project and the Apollo Program, you served as a public information specialist to the Gemini Program Office, the Apollo Spacecraft Program Office, the Flight Crew Operations, and Flight Operations Directorates. Can you tell us about some of your specific duties when you first started here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.654837300932147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went to a number of the briefings, not the ones that they had here on geology, but in the field. I would sit in on the briefings. Normally in the area that we were in, wherever it might be, they had a professor from a nearby university, a geology professor, who was well versed in that area, and he would give lectures, and I’d sit in on those.\\n\\n Uel Clanton, Dr. Clanton was a geologist working for NASA and one of the people in charge of the program, gave me a big book on geology that I studied. Fortunately, I’d had a five-hour course in geology in college. That kind of gave me the basics. I knew the basic forms of rocks and minerals and that sort of thing. Then I just mainly by observation and walking around, because whenever I wasn’t involved with the press, I just kind of hung around and kept my eyes and ears open, and you learn a lot that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The press conferences, did you facilitate them for the astronauts? You mentioned that they had their press conferences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we were on field trips and things?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before that you mentioned that they started the press conferences once a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, those were interviews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interviews. Excuse me, yes. Did you facilitate those, or did you help the astronauts, or did you coach them any on what they could or couldn’t say?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.505374778813497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we were on field trips and things?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before that you mentioned that they started the press conferences once a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, those were interviews."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interviews. Excuse me, yes. Did you facilitate those, or did you help the astronauts, or did you coach them any on what they could or couldn’t say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn’t coach them. They pretty much knew what to say and what not to say. In fact, a lot of them could have said more than they did. A lot of them didn’t understand the press or didn’t trust the press, and so they were kind of reticent to do things. But initially, well, I wasn’t the only one that got involved, because initially, and this is when the astronauts—their offices were out at Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas,], and that’s where we did the interviews. But the demand was so great and we had so many, that probably two or three of us out of the office got involved.\\n\\n Initially we were required to sit in on the interviews and, in effect, monitor them, but after a year or so, we convinced management and the astronauts that the press didn’t really like that, and it was to the advantage of the agency and to them to—and by that time they were pretty well used to dealing with the press. So we were able to discontinue monitoring all of them, which freed you up to do other things.\\n\\n The news conferences mainly started when—well, we had news conferences when we had new groups of astronauts. Then when we started selecting crews, each crew would have an interview day, which started with a news conference and then individual interviews afterwards with the crew members. That occupied a full day every time. So that’s generally how it went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the geology field trips and the survival school, you mentioned that you were there. Did you field questions from the press, or were they followed wherever they traveled? Was there a lot of press interest everywhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.107793299375647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I worked at the news center at the Cape mainly during Gemini, because I went to most of the launches down there, the Gemini launches, until when I started doing commentary, I didn’t go to the Cape as often, but when I did work in the news center here, it was generally on the query desk, or several times I’d worked at the interview desk and that sort of thing. We had several desks set up, an interview desk, a query desk, and a desk for the contractors and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it one large room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was one large room. Well, in those days we were across the street from the Center in Building 6, is what we called it, one of those buildings in Nassau Bay, [Texas]. But it was a large open area, yes. It was like a bullpen, like a newsroom in a newspaper, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From reading, I saw that Paul Haney opposed housing it offsite. He wanted it closer or onsite. Is that correct, or do you have any memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Housing for what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The news center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.119770332639607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was one large room. Well, in those days we were across the street from the Center in Building 6, is what we called it, one of those buildings in Nassau Bay, [Texas]. But it was a large open area, yes. It was like a bullpen, like a newsroom in a newspaper, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From reading, I saw that Paul Haney opposed housing it offsite. He wanted it closer or onsite. Is that correct, or do you have any memories of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Housing for what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The news center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially when we moved to the Center, we were onsite. Then I guess we kind of ran out of space, or the space wasn’t apportioned correctly. I think Building 2 at that time was made up mainly of individual offices, which didn’t work too well for a news center. We had an auditorium, but it was fairly small. We could get much more space across the street there. We had the whole building.\\n\\n But it was inconvenient in that you had to have transportation back and forth if you’re bringing people over for interviews or that sort of thing, or even just covering a beat. You couldn’t just walk to the next building. It was considerably more inconvenient than being onsite. I don’t recall how long we were over there, but it was probably a year or so.\\n\\n Then eventually they reconfigured Building 2 to more like a newsroom configuration, and we moved back. We were across the street during the [Apollo] 204 fire, and I think it was not too long after that we moved back over here, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned being there during the simulations to get the information you needed to do your commentary. Did you actually practice your commentary during those simulations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.466411480710676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Housing for what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The news center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially when we moved to the Center, we were onsite. Then I guess we kind of ran out of space, or the space wasn’t apportioned correctly. I think Building 2 at that time was made up mainly of individual offices, which didn’t work too well for a news center. We had an auditorium, but it was fairly small. We could get much more space across the street there. We had the whole building.\\n\\n But it was inconvenient in that you had to have transportation back and forth if you’re bringing people over for interviews or that sort of thing, or even just covering a beat. You couldn’t just walk to the next building. It was considerably more inconvenient than being onsite. I don’t recall how long we were over there, but it was probably a year or so.\\n\\n Then eventually they reconfigured Building 2 to more like a newsroom configuration, and we moved back. We were across the street during the [Apollo] 204 fire, and I think it was not too long after that we moved back over here, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned being there during the simulations to get the information you needed to do your commentary. Did you actually practice your commentary during those simulations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t, usually. I would make a lot of notes. Well, on some occasions I guess we did practice, particularly as we got down closer to the mission, because the sound room in the building would record and give us the tapes and we could listen to those and study those, too. So, yes, we did. But initially when you’re first starting just to learn the mission, no, just mainly familiarized ourselves with terms and things that were going to happen during the mission, and who was whom in the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room], who were the people that you really had to know and get to, to get the kind of information you needed. But later, yes, we did do commentary as we got closer to the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given any instructions on how to do the commentary, or was that comfortable for you to start out doing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 44.6727180805359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t say it was comfortable. I had never really done anything like that before. As I recall, we took some very basic training in speech, and they preferred you not to have some very obvious accent and that sort of thing.\\n\\n But I guess the most nervous part of commentary is always the launch, and commentators don’t usually start with the launch phase. You usually start out working the overnight, which is good because you learn a lot about the things that go on.\\n\\n The whole point of commentary was not to tell the public what was going on directly. So although I knew I was, I never felt like I was talking to thousands or millions of people. The idea of the commentary was to provide good information and explanations to the media, to the news media that was at the news center, so that they could disseminate correct information. Then, of course, the networks picked it up and put it on the air, so it became a little more than that. But I can’t say I was never uncomfortable doing some phases, but I always just tried to imagine that I was just talking to one or two people, not a lot of people. So I was never really discombobulated too much, I don’t think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was [John A.] “Shorty” Powers still there when you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, “Shorty” was the one that hired me, he and Ben James, and “Shorty”, he was still there, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was known as “The Voice of Mercury.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was his commentary different than what it was when you started doing it? Did it change somewhat?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.41413120059544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, “Shorty” was the one that hired me, he and Ben James, and “Shorty”, he was still there, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was known as “The Voice of Mercury.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was his commentary different than what it was when you started doing it? Did it change somewhat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it did change. “Shorty” had a very personal kind of commentary, and I think eventually we got to the point where we tried to make it more impersonal. But “Shorty” was pretty flamboyant, and he liked to invent phrases like “A-okay,” which nobody understood what it really meant, and he had a knack for doing it. I mean, he was a wonderful commentator, particularly for the initial program, the Mercury Program. He got people really interested in what was going on, and he could portray a sense of drama and all that kind of stuff. But that kind of changed, I think.\\n\\n I think Haney was probably the second commentator. He started commentary on—well, it was MA-9, because it was a, what, thirty-six-hour flight? I don’t remember exactly. But it was several days, and one commentator couldn’t do it all. So that’s when Paul started. He was at [NASA] Headquarters, [Washington, D.C.] at that time, and he started doing commentary. Then he came to Houston as the public affairs officer.\\n\\n But I think as the rest of us got into it, Terry [Robert T.] White and [John E.] McLeaish and Doug [Douglas K.] Ward, we tried to make it more impersonal and stress more the information and explanatory part of it. At least I did. I think they did, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started in the mid-sixties with your commentary and went all the way through Shuttle with that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 39.34903466732827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was his commentary different than what it was when you started doing it? Did it change somewhat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it did change. “Shorty” had a very personal kind of commentary, and I think eventually we got to the point where we tried to make it more impersonal. But “Shorty” was pretty flamboyant, and he liked to invent phrases like “A-okay,” which nobody understood what it really meant, and he had a knack for doing it. I mean, he was a wonderful commentator, particularly for the initial program, the Mercury Program. He got people really interested in what was going on, and he could portray a sense of drama and all that kind of stuff. But that kind of changed, I think.\\n\\n I think Haney was probably the second commentator. He started commentary on—well, it was MA-9, because it was a, what, thirty-six-hour flight? I don’t remember exactly. But it was several days, and one commentator couldn’t do it all. So that’s when Paul started. He was at [NASA] Headquarters, [Washington, D.C.] at that time, and he started doing commentary. Then he came to Houston as the public affairs officer.\\n\\n But I think as the rest of us got into it, Terry [Robert T.] White and [John E.] McLeaish and Doug [Douglas K.] Ward, we tried to make it more impersonal and stress more the information and explanatory part of it. At least I did. I think they did, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You started in the mid-sixties with your commentary and went all the way through Shuttle with that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did the early part of the Shuttle, and I didn’t do a commentary on ASTP because I was too involved in the program itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any missions, beginning with Gemini, that stick out in your mind while you were working and doing the commentary that you’d like to share? You mentioned that you were in the news center, or you were during Apollo 1, the fire."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.90356094287068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember whether I was. If you asked me to make a list of every mission I was commentary, I couldn’t do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t remember? That’s fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don’t think I was, because that was just, like, the second Gemini mission, manned Gemini mission, I think, Gemini IV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was the first one that was actually mission control and Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was in ’65, and the first one was John Young and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.44840104763409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don’t think I was, because that was just, like, the second Gemini mission, manned Gemini mission, I think, Gemini IV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was the first one that was actually mission control and Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was in ’65, and the first one was John Young and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Grissom. We were still operating at the Cape at that time, and that was Gemini III, I think. So, no, I didn’t give commentary on IV, I don’t think, and I’m sure I went to the Cape for the launch and then came back after launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many launches did you go to the Cape for? Was that all through Apollo also?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.60933449737121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was in ’65, and the first one was John Young and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Grissom. We were still operating at the Cape at that time, and that was Gemini III, I think. So, no, I didn’t give commentary on IV, I don’t think, and I’m sure I went to the Cape for the launch and then came back after launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many launches did you go to the Cape for? Was that all through Apollo also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the Cape for some of the unmanned Apollo launches, but for most of the Apollo launches I did commentary, I think. I didn’t go to Apollo 8. I think I worked the query desk here. But for most of the others I did commentary. So I never did get to the Cape for a manned Apollo launch. I was there for the first Saturn V launch, but that was unmanned, and I was there for one of the early Saturn launches, and it was a night launch, Saturn I. It wasn’t a V, was it? No, I didn’t go to the Cape for any Apollo launches.\\n\\n The only Shuttle launch I ever went to the Cape for was several years ago after I retired, and NASA retirees had a big reunion at the Cape during one of the launches, and we all saw the launch from the press site. But because I was always busy, I was either doing commentary in the initial part or after I became the branch chief, I was tied up with management kind of stuff in the news center, and I didn’t do commentary then either.\\n\\n I was there for the last Mercury launch and for most of the Gemini launches, but after Gemini I didn’t go, other than, I’d say, a couple of the unmanned Apollo type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 7, of course, Wally [Walter M.] Schirra [Jr.] was labeled “grumpy” by the press, and I believe there were some issues during that flight. Did you have to deal with any of that or deal with the press during any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.476679532881523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I think we learned a lot just from the sheer volume of the media, but by that time we had quite a bit of experience on missions and handling. So I don’t recall any kind of drastic or unusual changes involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were doing the commentary during the first Moon walk, when Neil [A.] Armstrong stepped on the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you so busy doing what you were doing, or how did it affect you when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was fairly awe-struck, I guess. But as I recall, we had made arrangements to have one of the geologists sit with us. I can’t remember whether we started that on 11 or maybe a little bit later. But, anyway, on several of the Apollo missions we had some of the NASA geologists sit with us so that we could use their expertise when the crew was picking up rocks and soil and that sort of thing, and that was very helpful.\\n\\n Of course, the Apollo 11 EVA, it wasn’t as extensive as the later ones, but, yes, I would have to say I was very impressed. The pictures were kind of fuzzy. They weren’t as good as they were later on when we had better cameras and better places to put them, but it was by far the most exciting pictures from space that we had seen since—of course, Apollo 8 was the low-level surface of the Moon. TV pictures were great, you know. Everybody liked those. But to actually see somebody out on the surface, it was the culmination of what everybody had been looking forward to for so long, and they didn’t fall through the surface or the dust like some people thought they might. But we didn’t think they would anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Apollo 12, unfortunately, had the problem with the camera. How did that affect what your office was doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.73385083505795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, we hadn’t had the delay for a long time before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall Pete—at least I never heard him say anything, that he was—but, no, I’m not aware of any fears he might have had along that line. He may have said that to somebody else, but I didn’t hear about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Apollo 13 before, and the fact that you had the press in the MOCR, the press pool. That was established actually before the mission, right? I mean, it didn’t happen as a result of 13, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.37094537228661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall Pete—at least I never heard him say anything, that he was—but, no, I’m not aware of any fears he might have had along that line. He may have said that to somebody else, but I didn’t hear about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Apollo 13 before, and the fact that you had the press in the MOCR, the press pool. That was established actually before the mission, right? I mean, it didn’t happen as a result of 13, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren’t in there before the actual accident?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 40.4121615247629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren’t in there before the actual accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, they were not. I’m trying to think who the public affairs officer was at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Brian Duff?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 53.25458804413452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, it just mushroomed, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any problem handling the amount of press or the interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t recall any big problem, because we already had the facilities that we’d had there before. So it was JUST putting up with the hectic thing of trying to get everybody registered and signed in as they came flooding in and assigned to work positions over in the press working area and that sort of thing. So it kept everybody busy in the news center, but it was not any really big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The subsequent missions, of course, had more geology, and you had been going on the field trips and studying the geology. On these missions you also had geologists sitting with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t on all of them, but there were several that we did, a couple at least, and I can’t remember now which ones those might have been. I don’t know whether 14 was one or not, but 15 I think we may have. Fifteen was when we first had the Rover. Fourteen, they just had that little cart they pulled, a kind of a surrey or something.\\n\\n I don’t think we had them there for every subsequent mission, but we did on at least two or three more. I can’t remember exactly which one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we get into the further missions past Apollo, do you want to go ahead and take a break just for a second and stretch your legs? We’ve been going a little over an hour."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 59.1717644934828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t recall any big problem, because we already had the facilities that we’d had there before. So it was JUST putting up with the hectic thing of trying to get everybody registered and signed in as they came flooding in and assigned to work positions over in the press working area and that sort of thing. So it kept everybody busy in the news center, but it was not any really big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The subsequent missions, of course, had more geology, and you had been going on the field trips and studying the geology. On these missions you also had geologists sitting with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t on all of them, but there were several that we did, a couple at least, and I can’t remember now which ones those might have been. I don’t know whether 14 was one or not, but 15 I think we may have. Fifteen was when we first had the Rover. Fourteen, they just had that little cart they pulled, a kind of a surrey or something.\\n\\n I don’t think we had them there for every subsequent mission, but we did on at least two or three more. I can’t remember exactly which one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we get into the further missions past Apollo, do you want to go ahead and take a break just for a second and stretch your legs? We’ve been going a little over an hour."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. All right.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we’re back again with Mr. Riley, and we’ve just talked about Apollo. I think I’d like to go on to Skylab now and talk to you a little bit about Skylab. Considering that Skylab was the first truly long-duration flight, after the initial glitch at the beginning, how did that change the role of PAO and the commentary?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.867648976501734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and Janet Ross. But, yes, they were the first to do commentary, I think. I can’t think of any woman we had on the commentary team prior to them. But they worked out real well. In fact, that was probably one of the most satisfying parts of my NASA career, was being able to draft that training program and oversee it and kind of make sure that they did well and got promoted and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given a list of names to choose from, and were you able to choose them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as I recall, we were able to choose them. I think John McLeaish and I interviewed. I don’t remember how many initially were on the list, but the ones we wound up with were ones that we were able to select from a list of applicants. They were NASA employees, mainly secretaries or administrative assistants, that sort of thing, who applied through the Personnel Office when they sent out an announcement that these positions are open. So we were able to select them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think that all happened, like I say, it was around ’81, ’82. I think it was probably ’82 by the time they finished their training, as I recall. We had gone [through] what you were talking about earlier, the period of long-duration kind of things that was mainly just a big pain for everybody in the office, but you had to do it because there was no alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the other issues during Skylab, I believe there was some tension or some discussion between PAO and the Office of Manned Space Flight on whether or not to broadcast the medical discussions. Do you have any recollections of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 50.96405441833526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as I recall, we were able to choose them. I think John McLeaish and I interviewed. I don’t remember how many initially were on the list, but the ones we wound up with were ones that we were able to select from a list of applicants. They were NASA employees, mainly secretaries or administrative assistants, that sort of thing, who applied through the Personnel Office when they sent out an announcement that these positions are open. So we were able to select them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think that all happened, like I say, it was around ’81, ’82. I think it was probably ’82 by the time they finished their training, as I recall. We had gone [through] what you were talking about earlier, the period of long-duration kind of things that was mainly just a big pain for everybody in the office, but you had to do it because there was no alternative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the other issues during Skylab, I believe there was some tension or some discussion between PAO and the Office of Manned Space Flight on whether or not to broadcast the medical discussions. Do you have any recollections of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall that it was ever proposed that we broadcast the medical discussions themselves, but we did think that we had to provide information on what they were about, and we eventually came up with that we were allowed to put out a summary of what was discussed and why, to satisfy the media, primarily, that somebody wasn’t deathly ill or that sort of thing.\\n\\n I don’t recall, and this could have happened at Headquarters, this discussion, but I don’t recall any discussion here about or anybody pushing that we should release the entire conversation between the crew and the doctor, no. After the discussion was over, why, somebody would get with the flight surgeon and put together a summary, and then that was released."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Skylab, then let’s talk about ASTP and your role in drafting the public information plan for that project. How did you become involved in that aspect of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.63883671070262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s vaguely familiar, but I don’t really remember the specifics. Seems to me they did propose a room that really didn’t handle the number of people that we expected, but that got worked out, as I recall, yes. It was not a real big deal, I don’t think, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The part two of the plan, did you have anything to do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I probably had input because we had some meetings. Part two was primarily drafted at Headquarters, but several Headquarters people would come down, particularly during the working group meetings and things, and we would have discussions about part two and then kind of kick things around. So we were pretty much aware what was going to be in it, but I didn’t get personally involved in putting it down on paper like I did part one with the original draft, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glynn Lunney, we interviewed him, he mentioned in his interview that he was a little concerned at that time about Headquarters coming in after the fact and maybe possibly destroying some of the rapport that had already been built up, and he felt that JSC PAO people were perfectly capable of handling everything. Do you have any specific memories about that issue or that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember that after we were pretty well into the preparations for the mission, that Headquarters took a lot bigger interest in it and got more heavily involved. I agree with Glynn. I think if it was left up to us, we could have handled it fine. I don’t recall I had any real trepidation that Headquarters was going to mess things up, because they got pretty heavily involved in the TV plans and the photo plans and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that more part two?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 32.93204078966957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I probably had input because we had some meetings. Part two was primarily drafted at Headquarters, but several Headquarters people would come down, particularly during the working group meetings and things, and we would have discussions about part two and then kind of kick things around. So we were pretty much aware what was going to be in it, but I didn’t get personally involved in putting it down on paper like I did part one with the original draft, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Glynn Lunney, we interviewed him, he mentioned in his interview that he was a little concerned at that time about Headquarters coming in after the fact and maybe possibly destroying some of the rapport that had already been built up, and he felt that JSC PAO people were perfectly capable of handling everything. Do you have any specific memories about that issue or that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember that after we were pretty well into the preparations for the mission, that Headquarters took a lot bigger interest in it and got more heavily involved. I agree with Glynn. I think if it was left up to us, we could have handled it fine. I don’t recall I had any real trepidation that Headquarters was going to mess things up, because they got pretty heavily involved in the TV plans and the photo plans and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that more part two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, particularly the TV plans on part two. But I thought the JSC people, Lunney and Stafford and everybody involved, we handled things pretty well, I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In part one of the plan, the one you were more involved in, how exactly was it decided and signed off that information would be handled?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.248347492256624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I was over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the commentators there or here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were here. I think the Russians had some commentators in their control center. In fact, they may even have had one or two here. But I know they had interpreters here, translators to help the American press go from Russian to English on the Soyuz end of it. But, no, I think we went into Moscow about five days before the mission started and stayed until five days after it ended. So I wasn’t in this news center or doing commentary here for that mission at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those innovations that they had, did we adopt any of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, no. No, I don’t ever recall us providing little individual receivers for our press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting idea, though."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 33.60927499139625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were here. I think the Russians had some commentators in their control center. In fact, they may even have had one or two here. But I know they had interpreters here, translators to help the American press go from Russian to English on the Soyuz end of it. But, no, I think we went into Moscow about five days before the mission started and stayed until five days after it ended. So I wasn’t in this news center or doing commentary here for that mission at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those innovations that they had, did we adopt any of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, no. No, I don’t ever recall us providing little individual receivers for our press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting idea, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is. But you couldn’t go three or four miles away and receive it; you had to be fairly close to the news center to get it. But they could wander around. You could go to lunch and that sort of thing and still get the air-to-ground. But it was kind of interesting, because once they kind of decided that it might to be to their benefit to do some of this public information, they kind of got into the spirit of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like it changed the way they handled things after that somewhat?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.91778860166344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. It was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After ASTP there was a period of about six years where there weren’t any flights. What kind of effect did that have on the Public Affairs Office? Were there cuts as far as the number of personnel? What exactly did you do during that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn’t have any cuts, but there was also in that time period where we didn’t have any hiring authority either. By normal attrition you’d lose some people. As I recall, there was not any people sitting around and complaining about “I don’t have anything to do,” because we still had a lot to do in preparing for Shuttle and covering the normal day-to-day operation of the Center.\\n\\n There was always interest in something that was going on at the Center. We were still bringing in new astronauts every once in a while, and the media was interested in that. It wasn’t as frantic or as hectic or as busy as mission periods, but it was not a period that I recall where we really had to go out and scrounge for something to do either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’78 they announced the new class of astronauts, including women and minorities. How did the public react to that, or the press? Was there a lot of interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a lot. When we had the first women and the first minorities there, there was a lot of interest in that. Then when we started bringing in payload specialists from other countries and that sort of thing, there was a lot of interest, particularly in their home country, a lot of media interest. We managed to keep busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of the Shuttle approach and landing tests?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.713319261312886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a lot. When we had the first women and the first minorities there, there was a lot of interest in that. Then when we started bringing in payload specialists from other countries and that sort of thing, there was a lot of interest, particularly in their home country, a lot of media interest. We managed to keep busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of the Shuttle approach and landing tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think I did commentary on—I think it was maybe on the second. It’s the one Joe [H.] Engle was involved in, and I don’t remember now who did those. I know Engle did. Did John Young do some of those? We didn’t really have a Shuttle control center set up yet, and it was either the first or second one that I did commentary, and we operated out of what had been sort of the Sim Sup [Simulation Supervisors] area, where they did some of the simulations from. Or it was an area off from the—I don’t know if it was Sim Sup or whether it was the SPAN [Spacecraft Analysis Room]. It may have been the SPAN area, the Spacecraft Analysis Area there. But it was a much smaller room off to one side of the MOCR itself, because they were reconfiguring for Shuttle. But I did do at least one. I remember doing at least one of the manned drop tests, but I don’t recall that I did more than one. We only did two, didn’t we? I can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not sure how many. Do you remember? Two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I did one of those. I don’t recall that I did both of them, but I just don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1981 you became deputy chief of the Media Services Branch. How did your position change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.348132512569872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think I did commentary on—I think it was maybe on the second. It’s the one Joe [H.] Engle was involved in, and I don’t remember now who did those. I know Engle did. Did John Young do some of those? We didn’t really have a Shuttle control center set up yet, and it was either the first or second one that I did commentary, and we operated out of what had been sort of the Sim Sup [Simulation Supervisors] area, where they did some of the simulations from. Or it was an area off from the—I don’t know if it was Sim Sup or whether it was the SPAN [Spacecraft Analysis Room]. It may have been the SPAN area, the Spacecraft Analysis Area there. But it was a much smaller room off to one side of the MOCR itself, because they were reconfiguring for Shuttle. But I did do at least one. I remember doing at least one of the manned drop tests, but I don’t recall that I did more than one. We only did two, didn’t we? I can’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not sure how many. Do you remember? Two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I did one of those. I don’t recall that I did both of them, but I just don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1981 you became deputy chief of the Media Services Branch. How did your position change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the title changed, because prior to that I had had several—in fact, I’d had that same title before I went upstairs to the administrative assistant, and prior to that I was in some title, like news operations manager or something. But the job never did change; just the titles changed. So that was all that changed. It was after that, ’81, when I came back down, that’s when we did the training program for the neophytes. So that was a little different than stuff I had been doing, but I still did a lot of the same stuff I had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still doing some commentary on the early—did you do it on the first flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.16459168063319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I did one of those. I don’t recall that I did both of them, but I just don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1981 you became deputy chief of the Media Services Branch. How did your position change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the title changed, because prior to that I had had several—in fact, I’d had that same title before I went upstairs to the administrative assistant, and prior to that I was in some title, like news operations manager or something. But the job never did change; just the titles changed. So that was all that changed. It was after that, ’81, when I came back down, that’s when we did the training program for the neophytes. So that was a little different than stuff I had been doing, but I still did a lot of the same stuff I had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still doing some commentary on the early—did you do it on the first flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first Shuttle flight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the first Shuttle flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.182879645147988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the title changed, because prior to that I had had several—in fact, I’d had that same title before I went upstairs to the administrative assistant, and prior to that I was in some title, like news operations manager or something. But the job never did change; just the titles changed. So that was all that changed. It was after that, ’81, when I came back down, that’s when we did the training program for the neophytes. So that was a little different than stuff I had been doing, but I still did a lot of the same stuff I had done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were still doing some commentary on the early—did you do it on the first flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first Shuttle flight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To tell you the truth, I don’t remember. We got to flying so many things, so many of them, and I did do a number of the Shuttle ones early on, but I couldn’t tell you which ones I did and which I didn’t. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned earlier when we first talked about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, the public interest, of course, and the way things were handled, it was a little different than what the plan had called for. But obviously there was a lot of public interest before the flight ever took off because of the teacher in space and then some of the other things that we’re talking about, as a journalist in space. Do you want to talk about that for a minute, let us know what you remember about that period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.092088494608877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first Shuttle flight?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To tell you the truth, I don’t remember. We got to flying so many things, so many of them, and I did do a number of the Shuttle ones early on, but I couldn’t tell you which ones I did and which I didn’t. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned earlier when we first talked about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, the public interest, of course, and the way things were handled, it was a little different than what the plan had called for. But obviously there was a lot of public interest before the flight ever took off because of the teacher in space and then some of the other things that we’re talking about, as a journalist in space. Do you want to talk about that for a minute, let us know what you remember about that period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there was an extraordinary amount of interest in the teacher in space. In fact, all during the time she was here, she and her backup, Barbara [R.] Morgan, were here during the training, we got a lot of interest from media.\\n\\n When it looked like they were going to fly a newsman in space, why, things got very interesting. It got as far as people submitted their applications, and they were down to the point where they were going to probably make a selection. Of course, the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident kind of blew that out of the water. But a lot of news guys had applied, particularly a lot of them that had been covering the program for years. So there was a lot of interest in that phase of it, but it just kind of fizzled out. I’m surprised they haven’t mounted another campaign in the last few years. I don’t know where that stands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, then things changed again after the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, and slowed down for a little bit as far as flights were concerned. Then in ’87 you became the chief of the Media Services Branch."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.21343166067653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To tell you the truth, I don’t remember. We got to flying so many things, so many of them, and I did do a number of the Shuttle ones early on, but I couldn’t tell you which ones I did and which I didn’t. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned earlier when we first talked about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, the public interest, of course, and the way things were handled, it was a little different than what the plan had called for. But obviously there was a lot of public interest before the flight ever took off because of the teacher in space and then some of the other things that we’re talking about, as a journalist in space. Do you want to talk about that for a minute, let us know what you remember about that period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there was an extraordinary amount of interest in the teacher in space. In fact, all during the time she was here, she and her backup, Barbara [R.] Morgan, were here during the training, we got a lot of interest from media.\\n\\n When it looked like they were going to fly a newsman in space, why, things got very interesting. It got as far as people submitted their applications, and they were down to the point where they were going to probably make a selection. Of course, the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident kind of blew that out of the water. But a lot of news guys had applied, particularly a lot of them that had been covering the program for years. So there was a lot of interest in that phase of it, but it just kind of fizzled out. I’m surprised they haven’t mounted another campaign in the last few years. I don’t know where that stands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, then things changed again after the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident, and slowed down for a little bit as far as flights were concerned. Then in ’87 you became the chief of the Media Services Branch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your job change any at this time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.715288476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last day of ’92, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular reason for retiring then, or just the right time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was getting old. [Laughter] And, frankly, I wasn’t having as much fun as I had been, and NASA was going through some changes, Headquarters and senior management here. Of course, I was very attuned to working with directors like Kraft and [Aaron] Cohen, and these were guys that I had worked with for years, because they’d come up through either the program office or the flight operations there, flight directors and that sort of thing, and I knew them well.\\n\\n But a couple of years before I retired there, we must have gone through four or five Assistant Administrators for Public Affairs at Headquarters. It seemed that they would last for a year or two, and then somebody else new, and they all had different ideas. Like I say, I’d been there a few months of thirty years, and I had about four years in the navy that counted toward retirement. I was getting up pretty—I was about almost sixty-eight when I retired, I guess, because I was thirty-eight when I went to work for NASA. I’d gone through the fun times, and I was ready to retire, ready to quit and play golf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, enjoy yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. Travel some, so that’s I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we wrap it up, I want to ask Rebecca and Jennifer, if you don’t mind, if they have any questions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.46143164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was getting old. [Laughter] And, frankly, I wasn’t having as much fun as I had been, and NASA was going through some changes, Headquarters and senior management here. Of course, I was very attuned to working with directors like Kraft and [Aaron] Cohen, and these were guys that I had worked with for years, because they’d come up through either the program office or the flight operations there, flight directors and that sort of thing, and I knew them well.\\n\\n But a couple of years before I retired there, we must have gone through four or five Assistant Administrators for Public Affairs at Headquarters. It seemed that they would last for a year or two, and then somebody else new, and they all had different ideas. Like I say, I’d been there a few months of thirty years, and I had about four years in the navy that counted toward retirement. I was getting up pretty—I was about almost sixty-eight when I retired, I guess, because I was thirty-eight when I went to work for NASA. I’d gone through the fun times, and I was ready to retire, ready to quit and play golf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, enjoy yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. Travel some, so that’s I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we wrap it up, I want to ask Rebecca and Jennifer, if you don’t mind, if they have any questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Rebecca?\n\nI have a couple of brief ones. Those early days, when you were writing the news releases, when you were first here at JSC, was there an approval process before you could submit those to the press?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.2904796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. Travel some, so that’s I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we wrap it up, I want to ask Rebecca and Jennifer, if you don’t mind, if they have any questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Rebecca?\n\nI have a couple of brief ones. Those early days, when you were writing the news releases, when you were first here at JSC, was there an approval process before you could submit those to the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, it had to be approved by the program manager. Whatever you were writing about, they wanted to approve, but that was usually no problem because that’s who you got the information from to begin with. But there was an approval process, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talked about the pool, the press pool that began after Apollo 13, Roy Neal was the first—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.211644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Rebecca?\n\nI have a couple of brief ones. Those early days, when you were writing the news releases, when you were first here at JSC, was there an approval process before you could submit those to the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, it had to be approved by the program manager. Whatever you were writing about, they wanted to approve, but that was usually no problem because that’s who you got the information from to begin with. But there was an approval process, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talked about the pool, the press pool that began after Apollo 13, Roy Neal was the first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we’d had pools. There’d been press pools before that, but not in the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who determined the rotation of who went in and went out? Did you leave that to the press?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.235159999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, it had to be approved by the program manager. Whatever you were writing about, they wanted to approve, but that was usually no problem because that’s who you got the information from to begin with. But there was an approval process, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you talked about the pool, the press pool that began after Apollo 13, Roy Neal was the first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we’d had pools. There’d been press pools before that, but not in the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who determined the rotation of who went in and went out? Did you leave that to the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was up to them. We didn’t try to tell them. We said, “You tell us who you want, and this is the time periods, and tell us who’s going to be here at each one of the—.” No, we left it up to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And contingency plans, was there one for Apollo 11 for PAO in case there was a problem?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.372399999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we’d had pools. There’d been press pools before that, but not in the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who determined the rotation of who went in and went out? Did you leave that to the press?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was up to them. We didn’t try to tell them. We said, “You tell us who you want, and this is the time periods, and tell us who’s going to be here at each one of the—.” No, we left it up to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And contingency plans, was there one for Apollo 11 for PAO in case there was a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was one for every mission, and a lot of it was the same, kind of boilerplate. But if there were any unique things about the mission, why, you had to include that. Like, one of the missions, I can’t remember which one, we flew a radioactive something or other. It was to power one of the lunar surface experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Apollo 13, where it had to come back? Is that the one?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was up to them. We didn’t try to tell them. We said, “You tell us who you want, and this is the time periods, and tell us who’s going to be here at each one of the—.” No, we left it up to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And contingency plans, was there one for Apollo 11 for PAO in case there was a problem?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was one for every mission, and a lot of it was the same, kind of boilerplate. But if there were any unique things about the mission, why, you had to include that. Like, one of the missions, I can’t remember which one, we flew a radioactive something or other. It was to power one of the lunar surface experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Apollo 13, where it had to come back? Is that the one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think it was 13. I don’t remember which one it was, but it was a scientific experiment that utilized some kind of radioactive source for power. There was a lot of people concerned that “Well, what if something happens on launch, like what happened to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?” What will be the problems that this will cause to people in the launch area?\\n\\n So if there were unique kind of things like that, they were addressed in the contingency plan, but a lot of it was the same each time, because you’d go through the same powered phase and that sort of thing. But it was updated for every mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jennifer?\n\nI have a questions for you as well. The Oral History Project recently interviewed John McLeaish, and he talked about promoting products like Tang for companies. Did you ever do anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00483:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.04, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was one for every mission, and a lot of it was the same, kind of boilerplate. But if there were any unique things about the mission, why, you had to include that. Like, one of the missions, I can’t remember which one, we flew a radioactive something or other. It was to power one of the lunar surface experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Apollo 13, where it had to come back? Is that the one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think it was 13. I don’t remember which one it was, but it was a scientific experiment that utilized some kind of radioactive source for power. There was a lot of people concerned that “Well, what if something happens on launch, like what happened to the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ?” What will be the problems that this will cause to people in the launch area?\\n\\n So if there were unique kind of things like that, they were addressed in the contingency plan, but a lot of it was the same each time, because you’d go through the same powered phase and that sort of thing. But it was updated for every mission, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jennifer?\n\nI have a questions for you as well. The Oral History Project recently interviewed John McLeaish, and he talked about promoting products like Tang for companies. Did you ever do anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never did promote them personally. We got involved, John and I and several other people. Those companies had to submit what they wanted to do, to our office for approval. So I got involved in that sense, but I don’t think any of us ever personally went out and promoted products. It was more of approving or disapproving what they wanted to do with their product."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in terms of advertising per se?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 28.59905938627232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'68."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1968 forward. And you are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ellen Shively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. We usually start by going back to the time just before you joined the Peace Corps and then bring it up to joining."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you want, you can put in a little bit of your family background and so forth, where you grew up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.554510429191467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ellen Shively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. We usually start by going back to the time just before you joined the Peace Corps and then bring it up to joining."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you want, you can put in a little bit of your family background and so forth, where you grew up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm a, I live in San Diego, California, and I grew up in a Navy family. My mother is a native here in San Diego and married a sailor. And I myself am a registered nurse, graduated from Florida State University. And when I was at Florida State, I joined the Army Student Nurse program and went into the Army for six and a half years as a nurse. At the end of six and a half years of active duty, I'd been stationed in Okinawa and we were getting a lot of casualties in from the Vietnam War, and I was reading the Stars and Stripes about the public outcry against being in Vietnam. And so I became disillusioned with the Army and decided to get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You were essentially a ward nurse during that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.72723381021274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you want, you can put in a little bit of your family background and so forth, where you grew up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm a, I live in San Diego, California, and I grew up in a Navy family. My mother is a native here in San Diego and married a sailor. And I myself am a registered nurse, graduated from Florida State University. And when I was at Florida State, I joined the Army Student Nurse program and went into the Army for six and a half years as a nurse. At the end of six and a half years of active duty, I'd been stationed in Okinawa and we were getting a lot of casualties in from the Vietnam War, and I was reading the Stars and Stripes about the public outcry against being in Vietnam. And so I became disillusioned with the Army and decided to get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You were essentially a ward nurse during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a medical surgical nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What originally got you into nursing? Any experiences in high school? Or had you done any travel, any volunteer work or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.919148678014157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm a, I live in San Diego, California, and I grew up in a Navy family. My mother is a native here in San Diego and married a sailor. And I myself am a registered nurse, graduated from Florida State University. And when I was at Florida State, I joined the Army Student Nurse program and went into the Army for six and a half years as a nurse. At the end of six and a half years of active duty, I'd been stationed in Okinawa and we were getting a lot of casualties in from the Vietnam War, and I was reading the Stars and Stripes about the public outcry against being in Vietnam. And so I became disillusioned with the Army and decided to get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You were essentially a ward nurse during that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a medical surgical nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What originally got you into nursing? Any experiences in high school? Or had you done any travel, any volunteer work or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had done some travel and liked the military and we were stationed as a family with the Navy, my dad being in the Navy in Japan. And some of my friends' fathers were doctors, Army doctors, and we had an Army nurse at our high school. So I wasn't prone to being ill, but I started in college as a PE major. But at Florida State they had a very strong nursing program. And I'd grown up Southern Baptist and I thought, well that's, maybe I'll be a medical missionary. So I went over to the nursing school one day and introduced myself, and she told me how to enroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you live in Japan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.24349853112684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a medical surgical nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What originally got you into nursing? Any experiences in high school? Or had you done any travel, any volunteer work or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had done some travel and liked the military and we were stationed as a family with the Navy, my dad being in the Navy in Japan. And some of my friends' fathers were doctors, Army doctors, and we had an Army nurse at our high school. So I wasn't prone to being ill, but I started in college as a PE major. But at Florida State they had a very strong nursing program. And I'd grown up Southern Baptist and I thought, well that's, maybe I'll be a medical missionary. So I went over to the nursing school one day and introduced myself, and she told me how to enroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you live in Japan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.49277614569649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had done some travel and liked the military and we were stationed as a family with the Navy, my dad being in the Navy in Japan. And some of my friends' fathers were doctors, Army doctors, and we had an Army nurse at our high school. So I wasn't prone to being ill, but I started in college as a PE major. But at Florida State they had a very strong nursing program. And I'd grown up Southern Baptist and I thought, well that's, maybe I'll be a medical missionary. So I went over to the nursing school one day and introduced myself, and she told me how to enroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you live in Japan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in high school. I was a sophomore and a junior. From '50 to '53 I think were the actual, well, years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was a completely a Department of Defense school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.99197349521832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in high school. I was a sophomore and a junior. From '50 to '53 I think were the actual, well, years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was a completely a Department of Defense school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there weren't Japanese students."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 26.657748328020357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in high school. I was a sophomore and a junior. From '50 to '53 I think were the actual, well, years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was a completely a Department of Defense school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there weren't Japanese students."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It's Yokohama American High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any contact at that time with Japan, Japanese culture? Any sense of, you know, that some other part of the world that wasn't American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.619720364467064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there weren't Japanese students."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It's Yokohama American High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any contact at that time with Japan, Japanese culture? Any sense of, you know, that some other part of the world that wasn't American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we lived on the economy for, I'd say, the first six or eight months that we lived in Japan and we took trips as a family and a couple of student trips to various places. Went up to Tokyo, went down to Atami, Kamakura, where the great lying Buddha is. The church group at the base climbed Mount Fujiyama. So that was a good weekend experience. Everybody took the trains in Japan, so I think we didn't have TV. So we spent, uh, weekends poking around Yokohama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have Japanese friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.57746707163007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It's Yokohama American High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any contact at that time with Japan, Japanese culture? Any sense of, you know, that some other part of the world that wasn't American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we lived on the economy for, I'd say, the first six or eight months that we lived in Japan and we took trips as a family and a couple of student trips to various places. Went up to Tokyo, went down to Atami, Kamakura, where the great lying Buddha is. The church group at the base climbed Mount Fujiyama. So that was a good weekend experience. Everybody took the trains in Japan, so I think we didn't have TV. So we spent, uh, weekends poking around Yokohama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have Japanese friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My family cultivated the friendship with a young man. His name was Kenji. And they corresponded with Kenji in subsequent years. And we would go on trips with Kenji and see his friends and where he worked and spent some time going to Japanese restaurants with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stop for just a moment. [tape break] We're talking about your time in Japan and then from Japan, you came back to San Diego? Or were you then college age and you went on to Florida?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.419407857366746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we lived on the economy for, I'd say, the first six or eight months that we lived in Japan and we took trips as a family and a couple of student trips to various places. Went up to Tokyo, went down to Atami, Kamakura, where the great lying Buddha is. The church group at the base climbed Mount Fujiyama. So that was a good weekend experience. Everybody took the trains in Japan, so I think we didn't have TV. So we spent, uh, weekends poking around Yokohama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have Japanese friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My family cultivated the friendship with a young man. His name was Kenji. And they corresponded with Kenji in subsequent years. And we would go on trips with Kenji and see his friends and where he worked and spent some time going to Japanese restaurants with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stop for just a moment. [tape break] We're talking about your time in Japan and then from Japan, you came back to San Diego? Or were you then college age and you went on to Florida?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. From Japan, we came to California. And I did my high school here in San Diego. Lincoln High School. And then my dad got transferred to Florida, and that's how I ended up at Florida State University. I did actually a year at San Diego State. And then I transferred to Florida State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn Spanish at all while living in San Diego?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 20.466008730407495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My family cultivated the friendship with a young man. His name was Kenji. And they corresponded with Kenji in subsequent years. And we would go on trips with Kenji and see his friends and where he worked and spent some time going to Japanese restaurants with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stop for just a moment. [tape break] We're talking about your time in Japan and then from Japan, you came back to San Diego? Or were you then college age and you went on to Florida?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. From Japan, we came to California. And I did my high school here in San Diego. Lincoln High School. And then my dad got transferred to Florida, and that's how I ended up at Florida State University. I did actually a year at San Diego State. And then I transferred to Florida State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn Spanish at all while living in San Diego?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you became a nurse, went to Okinawa. Do you recall anything about Peace Corps or Kennedy during the sixties? I mean, you were in Okinawa then I suppose."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.74000970045277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. From Japan, we came to California. And I did my high school here in San Diego. Lincoln High School. And then my dad got transferred to Florida, and that's how I ended up at Florida State University. I did actually a year at San Diego State. And then I transferred to Florida State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn Spanish at all while living in San Diego?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you became a nurse, went to Okinawa. Do you recall anything about Peace Corps or Kennedy during the sixties? I mean, you were in Okinawa then I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have, let's see. If it was 1961, I would have been graduating from college. My immediate assignments were in North Carolina, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And then I went to Hawaii, which is where I was born, for duty. I went to the same hospital that I'd been born in, Tripler Army Medical Center, and I did duty there. I actually was a public health nurse, Army health nurse. So I was stationed out at Schofield Barracks. And we had had friends, family friends from the past, that I reacquainted myself with and some local Chinese American Hawaiian people. So Hawaii was really a lovely assignment, but from Hawaii, I went to Okinawa and that was where the war was escalating, in my opinion. As far as the Peace Corps goes, being in the Army, I think I knew there was a Peace Corps, but I didn't know much about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the beginning and the excitement of the early '60s sort of, were you aware of it I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.155566333836411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you became a nurse, went to Okinawa. Do you recall anything about Peace Corps or Kennedy during the sixties? I mean, you were in Okinawa then I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have, let's see. If it was 1961, I would have been graduating from college. My immediate assignments were in North Carolina, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And then I went to Hawaii, which is where I was born, for duty. I went to the same hospital that I'd been born in, Tripler Army Medical Center, and I did duty there. I actually was a public health nurse, Army health nurse. So I was stationed out at Schofield Barracks. And we had had friends, family friends from the past, that I reacquainted myself with and some local Chinese American Hawaiian people. So Hawaii was really a lovely assignment, but from Hawaii, I went to Okinawa and that was where the war was escalating, in my opinion. As far as the Peace Corps goes, being in the Army, I think I knew there was a Peace Corps, but I didn't know much about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the beginning and the excitement of the early '60s sort of, were you aware of it I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peripherally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Kennedy's message of, you know, ask not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.728407037596012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would have, let's see. If it was 1961, I would have been graduating from college. My immediate assignments were in North Carolina, Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And then I went to Hawaii, which is where I was born, for duty. I went to the same hospital that I'd been born in, Tripler Army Medical Center, and I did duty there. I actually was a public health nurse, Army health nurse. So I was stationed out at Schofield Barracks. And we had had friends, family friends from the past, that I reacquainted myself with and some local Chinese American Hawaiian people. So Hawaii was really a lovely assignment, but from Hawaii, I went to Okinawa and that was where the war was escalating, in my opinion. As far as the Peace Corps goes, being in the Army, I think I knew there was a Peace Corps, but I didn't know much about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the beginning and the excitement of the early '60s sort of, were you aware of it I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peripherally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Kennedy's message of, you know, ask not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes, we all knew that. And maybe that was from the medical missionary concept, you know, maybe that was in the back of my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that still an active idea when you were in Okinawa, that the choice might have been to become a medical missionary?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.476007819551125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peripherally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Kennedy's message of, you know, ask not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes, we all knew that. And maybe that was from the medical missionary concept, you know, maybe that was in the back of my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that still an active idea when you were in Okinawa, that the choice might have been to become a medical missionary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But clearly you didn't want to continue being an Army nurse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.106182493272993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But clearly you didn't want to continue being an Army nurse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I said, I've got to get out of this War Corps and there was the Peace Corps, and I think I used that terminology. I want to leave the War Corps and join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably read an advertisement in a paper or saw something somewhere that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.895758325858882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I said, I've got to get out of this War Corps and there was the Peace Corps, and I think I used that terminology. I want to leave the War Corps and join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably read an advertisement in a paper or saw something somewhere that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were cool with that. My mother had a wonderful attitude about travel. If dad came home and said, Patty, we have orders to go to Hawaii or Florida or Washington State or Tennessee, she would say, oh goody, let me look on the map and see where it is and when do we start packing? So our whole family had a very positive attitude about changing four schools in one year. It was nothing to us. We had a good family, tight knit family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 19.88417591762098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably read an advertisement in a paper or saw something somewhere that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your family say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were cool with that. My mother had a wonderful attitude about travel. If dad came home and said, Patty, we have orders to go to Hawaii or Florida or Washington State or Tennessee, she would say, oh goody, let me look on the map and see where it is and when do we start packing? So our whole family had a very positive attitude about changing four schools in one year. It was nothing to us. We had a good family, tight knit family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four of us kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Brothers or sisters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.982417686245535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were cool with that. My mother had a wonderful attitude about travel. If dad came home and said, Patty, we have orders to go to Hawaii or Florida or Washington State or Tennessee, she would say, oh goody, let me look on the map and see where it is and when do we start packing? So our whole family had a very positive attitude about changing four schools in one year. It was nothing to us. We had a good family, tight knit family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four of us kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Brothers or sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the third out of four. An older brother, six years older, who joined the Air Force. So we had Navy, Air Force, and then I went in the Army. The next four years older sister, who likes the fashion world and the business world and material things, and she's always gravitated toward the good life. And then a younger sister who, uh, who graduated from San Diego State in English and looked for a job in Southern California in 1970. And there was the peak of the baby boomers and couldn't find a job. So she answered a call to go to Australia, where they needed teachers thoroughly. And went there for two years and stayed up, stayed there, and she lives there to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Can you move the mic around? I'm sorry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.202686318050594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four of us kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Brothers or sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the third out of four. An older brother, six years older, who joined the Air Force. So we had Navy, Air Force, and then I went in the Army. The next four years older sister, who likes the fashion world and the business world and material things, and she's always gravitated toward the good life. And then a younger sister who, uh, who graduated from San Diego State in English and looked for a job in Southern California in 1970. And there was the peak of the baby boomers and couldn't find a job. So she answered a call to go to Australia, where they needed teachers thoroughly. And went there for two years and stayed up, stayed there, and she lives there to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Can you move the mic around? I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it should be. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.558540353389548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the third out of four. An older brother, six years older, who joined the Air Force. So we had Navy, Air Force, and then I went in the Army. The next four years older sister, who likes the fashion world and the business world and material things, and she's always gravitated toward the good life. And then a younger sister who, uh, who graduated from San Diego State in English and looked for a job in Southern California in 1970. And there was the peak of the baby boomers and couldn't find a job. So she answered a call to go to Australia, where they needed teachers thoroughly. And went there for two years and stayed up, stayed there, and she lives there to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Can you move the mic around? I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it should be. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shall we do a test and see if it's?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we're OK. But the War Corps, Peace Corps dichotomy didn't disturb your family, that you were sort of going 180 degrees?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.953933725988385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it should be. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shall we do a test and see if it's?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we're OK. But the War Corps, Peace Corps dichotomy didn't disturb your family, that you were sort of going 180 degrees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was that typical third child where the parents overcome the obstacles of the first two kids and the third one, no matter what they're like, is a piece of cake and slides through the slats. And so anything I did, they were pretty much for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the process of applying? I mean, did you gather information about Peace Corps or just sort of send off a letter and hope you'd be picked?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.907077771663442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I remember going to the Honolulu Library. I was living in Honolulu at the time. And uh, looking up Colombia and I read about the drug problems that they had and the machismo of the South American male. And I was a bit put off by Colombia, so I wrote back and said, no, I don't think I'm interested in going to South America. Where else do you have? And then a second reply came back, you know, we were all maybe a phone conversation. Maybe. Although I don't remember very many long distance phone calls, but maybe a phone conversation or a letter. I don't have it anymore. It said, what about Ethiopia? So again, I went to the library to look up, where in the world is Ethiopia? And I think most Americans knew one or two things about Ethiopia. They knew about Haile Selassie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they knew about Abebe Bikila, the long-distance runner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said, Ethiopia, that's the place for me. I think that I would like to go to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a hiker then or did that come later?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.896753079626047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they knew about Abebe Bikila, the long-distance runner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said, Ethiopia, that's the place for me. I think that I would like to go to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a hiker then or did that come later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was always an outdoors person. Growing up, we couldn't afford to stay in motels with all of our travels, so we'd stay in state parks and had a trailer. And did the. [tape break] So yeah, the outdoors life was part of growing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because isn't Addis Ababa twelve thousand feet higher or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.218213678550674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was always an outdoors person. Growing up, we couldn't afford to stay in motels with all of our travels, so we'd stay in state parks and had a trailer. And did the. [tape break] So yeah, the outdoors life was part of growing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because isn't Addis Ababa twelve thousand feet higher or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten thousand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, uh, Addis Ababa is, yeah, it's on the high plateau, I guess you'd call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you have a sense, some sense of the project you were being asked to join, other than the location?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.575792976167415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten thousand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, uh, Addis Ababa is, yeah, it's on the high plateau, I guess you'd call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you have a sense, some sense of the project you were being asked to join, other than the location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I'd asked to go as a nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.75088108463046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, uh, Addis Ababa is, yeah, it's on the high plateau, I guess you'd call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you have a sense, some sense of the project you were being asked to join, other than the location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I'd asked to go as a nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, as a registered nurse. I think some of the projects. There was a malaria control project, and I think there was a trachoma for the eye project. But I'd say 100 percent of us in the nursing area went to dresser schools. They told us about dresser schools. So we're teachers in a dresser program. And dresser, as far as I can tell, is an English term, a World War I term, that means medical aid, medical assistant, nursing assistant. And later found out that in Ethiopia, it's the Ethiopian equivalent to an LPN, licensed practical nurse, licensed vocational nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally sorted it out with Peace Corps which project you were going into. Packed everything up, which should have been no problem for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.056534538478289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I'd asked to go as a nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, as a registered nurse. I think some of the projects. There was a malaria control project, and I think there was a trachoma for the eye project. But I'd say 100 percent of us in the nursing area went to dresser schools. They told us about dresser schools. So we're teachers in a dresser program. And dresser, as far as I can tell, is an English term, a World War I term, that means medical aid, medical assistant, nursing assistant. And later found out that in Ethiopia, it's the Ethiopian equivalent to an LPN, licensed practical nurse, licensed vocational nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally sorted it out with Peace Corps which project you were going into. Packed everything up, which should have been no problem for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been doing it all your life. And where did you go for the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.285038376086987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, as a registered nurse. I think some of the projects. There was a malaria control project, and I think there was a trachoma for the eye project. But I'd say 100 percent of us in the nursing area went to dresser schools. They told us about dresser schools. So we're teachers in a dresser program. And dresser, as far as I can tell, is an English term, a World War I term, that means medical aid, medical assistant, nursing assistant. And later found out that in Ethiopia, it's the Ethiopian equivalent to an LPN, licensed practical nurse, licensed vocational nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally sorted it out with Peace Corps which project you were going into. Packed everything up, which should have been no problem for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been doing it all your life. And where did you go for the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first place we met was Philadelphia, some large hotel in Philadelphia. I think we stayed there for probably five or six days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a complete nurse program that you would?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.650042640096652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been doing it all your life. And where did you go for the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first place we met was Philadelphia, some large hotel in Philadelphia. I think we stayed there for probably five or six days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a complete nurse program that you would?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. What was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.166714044551835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first place we met was Philadelphia, some large hotel in Philadelphia. I think we stayed there for probably five or six days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a complete nurse program that you would?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. What was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. Well, I don't even know if it was all Ethiopia anymore. Because it seemed like there were a lot of people in the room, many more people than went to our training group. So I think it was an all Peace Corps volunteer staging area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What year was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.04532598092819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. Well, I don't even know if it was all Ethiopia anymore. Because it seemed like there were a lot of people in the room, many more people than went to our training group. So I think it was an all Peace Corps volunteer staging area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What year was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would have been '68. Probably March of '68."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it seemed to me like other than orientation into what is the Peace Corps and some filling out some questionnaires, is this what you really want to do? And these are the consequences and talk about it in round circles. It seems like one of their weeding out objectives was to give us a five dollar bill and say, you're going to spend two nights away from here. Or three. It was either two or three nights in this block in Philadelphia and they had a grid. And I was to stay in the confines of one block and I was to come back on the third day. So two nights out. And it was a survival test. So that's what we did. We were each one individual. There weren't teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just by yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.272584423253544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Would have been '68. Probably March of '68."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it seemed to me like other than orientation into what is the Peace Corps and some filling out some questionnaires, is this what you really want to do? And these are the consequences and talk about it in round circles. It seems like one of their weeding out objectives was to give us a five dollar bill and say, you're going to spend two nights away from here. Or three. It was either two or three nights in this block in Philadelphia and they had a grid. And I was to stay in the confines of one block and I was to come back on the third day. So two nights out. And it was a survival test. So that's what we did. We were each one individual. There weren't teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. Five bucks. See you on the third day from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never heard that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.63620491472616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it seemed to me like other than orientation into what is the Peace Corps and some filling out some questionnaires, is this what you really want to do? And these are the consequences and talk about it in round circles. It seems like one of their weeding out objectives was to give us a five dollar bill and say, you're going to spend two nights away from here. Or three. It was either two or three nights in this block in Philadelphia and they had a grid. And I was to stay in the confines of one block and I was to come back on the third day. So two nights out. And it was a survival test. So that's what we did. We were each one individual. There weren't teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. Five bucks. See you on the third day from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never heard that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.929116571917957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By myself. Five bucks. See you on the third day from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never heard that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was pretty interesting. I remember sitting on the steps of a large cathedral and wondering, um, you know, where was I going to spend the night? So Philadelphia has these row houses. So on my block were some row houses and there was a woman standing, a black woman standing at the mailbox, and she had a letter in her hand. And I walked by and I said hello and we exchanged some, uh, greetings. And she said, can you read this letter for me? And it was a call to jury duty. And she said, well, I'm 83 years old and I don't read or write, and I don't think I should be on a jury. So I wrote a letter for her to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to her house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.505082187553032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was pretty interesting. I remember sitting on the steps of a large cathedral and wondering, um, you know, where was I going to spend the night? So Philadelphia has these row houses. So on my block were some row houses and there was a woman standing, a black woman standing at the mailbox, and she had a letter in her hand. And I walked by and I said hello and we exchanged some, uh, greetings. And she said, can you read this letter for me? And it was a call to jury duty. And she said, well, I'm 83 years old and I don't read or write, and I don't think I should be on a jury. So I wrote a letter for her to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to her house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I said to her, uh, I told her what I was doing, and I asked her if I could give her a dollar and a quarter and could stay the night at her house. And she let me do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She said, my son will be home at 5:30 or so. Come back then. And so I did, and I stayed the first night with her. And the second."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you wrote the letter for her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.092694058707446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She said, my son will be home at 5:30 or so. Come back then. And so I did, and I stayed the first night with her. And the second."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you wrote the letter for her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wrote the letter. Very pleasant. And the second night I said, well, I can't do this two nights in a row. So the second night I found a flophouse hotel. And uh, so I stayed there and I remember the man above me was a peg leg. So he'd walk around and he'd go, step, thump, step, thump, step. Scared me to death. I was afraid he was going to come down and he'd have a black eye patch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Captain Hook."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, it was sort of like the Outward Bound solo where you're on your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in an urban setting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.43632673189716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wrote the letter. Very pleasant. And the second night I said, well, I can't do this two nights in a row. So the second night I found a flophouse hotel. And uh, so I stayed there and I remember the man above me was a peg leg. So he'd walk around and he'd go, step, thump, step, thump, step. Scared me to death. I was afraid he was going to come down and he'd have a black eye patch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Captain Hook."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, it was sort of like the Outward Bound solo where you're on your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in an urban setting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, in an urban setting. And so I just walked the streets for those two days. I remember some outdoor markets. It was not a threat to me for some reason. I guess I was secure enough. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.254724360366865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, in an urban setting. And so I just walked the streets for those two days. I remember some outdoor markets. It was not a threat to me for some reason. I guess I was secure enough. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's remember now that I've been in the Army six and a half years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wasn't 21 years old right out of a college. Uh, let's say a Lutheran college in the Midwest, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I was going to ask you about your impression of the others in the group with you at that point. It must have been a big mix."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.394138178185406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's remember now that I've been in the Army six and a half years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wasn't 21 years old right out of a college. Uh, let's say a Lutheran college in the Midwest, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I was going to ask you about your impression of the others in the group with you at that point. It must have been a big mix."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I was probably one of the older ones. Yeah. Because I think I probably was 28. Yeah, 28. I think I was in the Peace Corps 28 through 30. Yeah. So I was probably 28 years old and there were a lot of the right out of college. But having been in the Army, I was used to young people. You know, the younger people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there talk at that point in the group, when you went in the circles and everything, were there young men there who were trying to avoid the draft?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.660153531317118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I wasn't 21 years old right out of a college. Uh, let's say a Lutheran college in the Midwest, so to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I was going to ask you about your impression of the others in the group with you at that point. It must have been a big mix."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I was probably one of the older ones. Yeah. Because I think I probably was 28. Yeah, 28. I think I was in the Peace Corps 28 through 30. Yeah. So I was probably 28 years old and there were a lot of the right out of college. But having been in the Army, I was used to young people. You know, the younger people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there talk at that point in the group, when you went in the circles and everything, were there young men there who were trying to avoid the draft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because this was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.066837257019019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I was probably one of the older ones. Yeah. Because I think I probably was 28. Yeah, 28. I think I was in the Peace Corps 28 through 30. Yeah. So I was probably 28 years old and there were a lot of the right out of college. But having been in the Army, I was used to young people. You know, the younger people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there talk at that point in the group, when you went in the circles and everything, were there young men there who were trying to avoid the draft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because this was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular reaction to that or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.629819174465576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because this was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular reaction to that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, remember, I'm out of the War Corps into the Peace Corps mentality now. And I had some feelings about going to Vietnam, even though later on I went myself. But um, yeah, I probably actually did have a little reserve saying, you know, this is a national effort, but I didn't vocalize it a lot. But I think I did stand out as probably more starchy and more regimented in my thinking than the average. But I didn't hold it against them, I remember that. I probably was puzzled, having grown up in the military and having been in the military, I was probably a little puzzled about it. But I had enough exposure to non-military types."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But even someone coming with six years of life experience beyond college would have, you know, there might be some differences between those just out of college."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.366465749406196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular reaction to that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, remember, I'm out of the War Corps into the Peace Corps mentality now. And I had some feelings about going to Vietnam, even though later on I went myself. But um, yeah, I probably actually did have a little reserve saying, you know, this is a national effort, but I didn't vocalize it a lot. But I think I did stand out as probably more starchy and more regimented in my thinking than the average. But I didn't hold it against them, I remember that. I probably was puzzled, having grown up in the military and having been in the military, I was probably a little puzzled about it. But I had enough exposure to non-military types."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But even someone coming with six years of life experience beyond college would have, you know, there might be some differences between those just out of college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was. And I, you know, I felt a little bit on the periphery. Yeah. I didn't feel quite as carefree as I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After this wonderful Philadelphia experience, what was next?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.851628610451328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, remember, I'm out of the War Corps into the Peace Corps mentality now. And I had some feelings about going to Vietnam, even though later on I went myself. But um, yeah, I probably actually did have a little reserve saying, you know, this is a national effort, but I didn't vocalize it a lot. But I think I did stand out as probably more starchy and more regimented in my thinking than the average. But I didn't hold it against them, I remember that. I probably was puzzled, having grown up in the military and having been in the military, I was probably a little puzzled about it. But I had enough exposure to non-military types."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But even someone coming with six years of life experience beyond college would have, you know, there might be some differences between those just out of college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was. And I, you know, I felt a little bit on the periphery. Yeah. I didn't feel quite as carefree as I thought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After this wonderful Philadelphia experience, what was next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we went to the Virgin Islands, Saint. Let's see. We went to Charlotte Amalie was the name of the town. We flew there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of this Philadelphia thing were you told, well, you're in the Peace Corps and you're on your way to train, to become? So did you know the project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.92815995946684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I knew I was going to go to a dresser school. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they gave us. I remember at Philadelphia right at the end, they said, OK, there's no involvement. This is on the government if you want to turn around and go home. And a lot of people decided that this wasn't for them at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Philadelphia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So they went home. So then we got on this Caribbean Airlines and I still remember the turbulence in the air and we all looked at each other like, what's holding this plane together? And are we going to get there in the plane or are we going to get there in a parachute? It was pretty exciting. And so we were on the major Virgin Island with Charlotte Amalie was the town, and I think we were there for six weeks. So we went out of the town to the other side of the island, to a little old, I think was an old army camp or something like an army camp would be. It was long buildings where we all stayed in bunk beds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a barracks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.533827104892785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like an old barracks. And it was on a hillside. And this great, beautiful, sparkling Pacific Ocean in front of us. And Mandalay Bay or Mandahl Bay was a Sunday excursion that we all looked forward to because we didn't go swimming. I mean, we worked six and a half days a week. We were in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was culture immersion and language immersion, and then some psychological circles sitting around. I remember they had facilitators and one of the facilitators that asked posed this question to us. What impact will you have on your country, on this country that you're going to? For me, I was a registered nurse, so you're going to go in and you're going to teach these people how to improve their health. You're going to prolong their life. You're going to help them have healthier babies so the population will explode. And are you willing to take the consequences of the impact that you'll have on this country? I remember that posed as a question. The other part, the language immersion, was fun. We literally buried English. So we had a little ceremony one day where we took a shovel, and for three days we were not to be allowed to speak one word of English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now the language teachers were brought over from Ethiopia, and I still remember them. They came up and walked up the hill and they had their shammas wrapped around them. So they look like biblical characters. The shammas is the blanket like coat that's worn in Ethiopia, covers the head and the shoulders, and it's a blanket. There are different weights of the blanket. And in the mist of the morning, I still remember these five or six people coming up dressed in their national dress and appearing before us as though they were two thousand years from the past and they were to be our language teachers. And I still have a vivid memory of the first impression of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the language being?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.967687783818254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now the language teachers were brought over from Ethiopia, and I still remember them. They came up and walked up the hill and they had their shammas wrapped around them. So they look like biblical characters. The shammas is the blanket like coat that's worn in Ethiopia, covers the head and the shoulders, and it's a blanket. There are different weights of the blanket. And in the mist of the morning, I still remember these five or six people coming up dressed in their national dress and appearing before us as though they were two thousand years from the past and they were to be our language teachers. And I still have a vivid memory of the first impression of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the language being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language they taught us was Amharic. And that's the national language of Ethiopia. It's not the most populous tribe, but it was Haile Selassie's language and so it was the official government language. Turned out where I was sent was a Tigrinya speaking area. But anyway, we learned the basics of Amharic, and they used the technique of mimicking and drama and pointing. And so, for example, I still remember the teacher pointing to what's in front of us now is a terepeza. And so the theory was that you didn't learn to translate. We didn't want to say this is a table. Yihi terepeza. Ya terepeza. So we learned. And to this day, I don't think, when I'm thinking about Amharic, I don't think table. I think terepeza."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then she would get us up there and she would talk about the morning and so she would hold her hands out and she would point the finger coursing over the course of the day. And she would say in the morning is la ansat. So everybody knew that was morning and then evening time. So we got the idea of the day, time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this was just a three-day intensive? Or did it continue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.519653093131393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language they taught us was Amharic. And that's the national language of Ethiopia. It's not the most populous tribe, but it was Haile Selassie's language and so it was the official government language. Turned out where I was sent was a Tigrinya speaking area. But anyway, we learned the basics of Amharic, and they used the technique of mimicking and drama and pointing. And so, for example, I still remember the teacher pointing to what's in front of us now is a terepeza. And so the theory was that you didn't learn to translate. We didn't want to say this is a table. Yihi terepeza. Ya terepeza. So we learned. And to this day, I don't think, when I'm thinking about Amharic, I don't think table. I think terepeza."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then she would get us up there and she would talk about the morning and so she would hold her hands out and she would point the finger coursing over the course of the day. And she would say in the morning is la ansat. So everybody knew that was morning and then evening time. So we got the idea of the day, time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this was just a three-day intensive? Or did it continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was. No, it was probably five weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. But it started with the burying thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.579818633495546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it was. No, it was probably five weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. But it started with the burying thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We buried English for three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we don't use a lot of English in our classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the group you were working with, was it all the dresser program or was it a mix?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.199798481661718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We buried English for three days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we don't use a lot of English in our classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the group you were working with, was it all the dresser program or was it a mix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was mixture. Community organizing and water resources and teach, regular school teachers. And so, yeah, we didn't have. Once we get to Ethiopia, we divide it off for some dresser training. But in the Virgin Islands, it was, we were mixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in an ordinary day, say like in the third week of training, how much time was being given to language training as compared to area studies and the other stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.888664979624131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we don't use a lot of English in our classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the group you were working with, was it all the dresser program or was it a mix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was mixture. Community organizing and water resources and teach, regular school teachers. And so, yeah, we didn't have. Once we get to Ethiopia, we divide it off for some dresser training. But in the Virgin Islands, it was, we were mixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in an ordinary day, say like in the third week of training, how much time was being given to language training as compared to area studies and the other stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit. I had a fairly decent foundation in Amharic. I could go to the marketplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, were you told that you were going to be tested and that's part of selection?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2096277551379226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was mixture. Community organizing and water resources and teach, regular school teachers. And so, yeah, we didn't have. Once we get to Ethiopia, we divide it off for some dresser training. But in the Virgin Islands, it was, we were mixed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in an ordinary day, say like in the third week of training, how much time was being given to language training as compared to area studies and the other stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit. I had a fairly decent foundation in Amharic. I could go to the marketplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, were you told that you were going to be tested and that's part of selection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, this test that I hear about other people, we never. I think we did go in front of some people and they asked some questions, but it wasn't a matter of being deselected if you didn't master the language. Well, one of the reasons being that we knew we were teaching in English because English is the medical, the uniform medical language in Ethiopia. The doctors were from East Europe. The nurses were, many of them were trained in Lebanon, Beirut. American University in Beirut. So they had to have a universal language and English was the medical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were aware of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5662530612643586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit. I had a fairly decent foundation in Amharic. I could go to the marketplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, were you told that you were going to be tested and that's part of selection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, this test that I hear about other people, we never. I think we did go in front of some people and they asked some questions, but it wasn't a matter of being deselected if you didn't master the language. Well, one of the reasons being that we knew we were teaching in English because English is the medical, the uniform medical language in Ethiopia. The doctors were from East Europe. The nurses were, many of them were trained in Lebanon, Beirut. American University in Beirut. So they had to have a universal language and English was the medical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were aware of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there separate psychiatric interviews or have they given it up by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.402781557116492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there separate psychiatric interviews or have they given it up by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think maybe a psychologist was there, but that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The circle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the circle where we were given these challenges. We had some culture and then we had a team building, team building, and maybe there was a psychologist overviewing. But I was never aware that we were being psychoanalyzed. Although some people, you know, they've broken the training and they said, this isn't. I can't take this. So maybe there were psychological interviews for them. But I don't ever remember going to a psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So being selected wasn't an issue. You mean you were pretty well convinced that you were in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.891979507907212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think maybe a psychologist was there, but that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The circle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the circle where we were given these challenges. We had some culture and then we had a team building, team building, and maybe there was a psychologist overviewing. But I was never aware that we were being psychoanalyzed. Although some people, you know, they've broken the training and they said, this isn't. I can't take this. So maybe there were psychological interviews for them. But I don't ever remember going to a psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So being selected wasn't an issue. You mean you were pretty well convinced that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, yeah. And I was comfortable with the prospect of two years overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was it a cloud over the training? Who's going to go, who isn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.324421675452458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the circle where we were given these challenges. We had some culture and then we had a team building, team building, and maybe there was a psychologist overviewing. But I was never aware that we were being psychoanalyzed. Although some people, you know, they've broken the training and they said, this isn't. I can't take this. So maybe there were psychological interviews for them. But I don't ever remember going to a psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So being selected wasn't an issue. You mean you were pretty well convinced that you were in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, yeah. And I was comfortable with the prospect of two years overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was it a cloud over the training? Who's going to go, who isn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For some of them. There were people who, I still remember a woman very doubtful whether she wanted to be a part of this. So people left, you know, on a weekly basis from the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it didn't, it wasn't wrenching? I mean, oh my God, they're taking so-and-so away kind of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.804912972724953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, yeah. And I was comfortable with the prospect of two years overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was it a cloud over the training? Who's going to go, who isn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For some of them. There were people who, I still remember a woman very doubtful whether she wanted to be a part of this. So people left, you know, on a weekly basis from the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it didn't, it wasn't wrenching? I mean, oh my God, they're taking so-and-so away kind of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not for me. I mean, I've been in the Army, so I was used the people coming and going out of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The team building activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.338792191916614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For some of them. There were people who, I still remember a woman very doubtful whether she wanted to be a part of this. So people left, you know, on a weekly basis from the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it didn't, it wasn't wrenching? I mean, oh my God, they're taking so-and-so away kind of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not for me. I mean, I've been in the Army, so I was used the people coming and going out of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The team building activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What were the team building activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.931991324351793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not for me. I mean, I've been in the Army, so I was used the people coming and going out of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The team building activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What were the team building activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember there was some kind of a business and we were making widgets, and I think they wanted to make us aware of competition. We were given a project to produce widgets and we had to devise how we could produce these widgets. And the exercise at the end, the psychologist I guess it was or whoever was in charge of it, said now this group was very intense on the product, whereas this other group was very intent on the process, you know, bringing everybody in. And so it was very enlightening for us to see how we reacted under pressure to produce something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And the entire training was six weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.591101471501992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What were the team building activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember there was some kind of a business and we were making widgets, and I think they wanted to make us aware of competition. We were given a project to produce widgets and we had to devise how we could produce these widgets. And the exercise at the end, the psychologist I guess it was or whoever was in charge of it, said now this group was very intense on the product, whereas this other group was very intent on the process, you know, bringing everybody in. And so it was very enlightening for us to see how we reacted under pressure to produce something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And the entire training was six weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Virgin Islands. Now it continued once we got in the country, once we went to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it wrap up in the Virgin Islands?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.323446079446658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember there was some kind of a business and we were making widgets, and I think they wanted to make us aware of competition. We were given a project to produce widgets and we had to devise how we could produce these widgets. And the exercise at the end, the psychologist I guess it was or whoever was in charge of it, said now this group was very intense on the product, whereas this other group was very intent on the process, you know, bringing everybody in. And so it was very enlightening for us to see how we reacted under pressure to produce something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And the entire training was six weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Virgin Islands. Now it continued once we got in the country, once we went to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it wrap up in the Virgin Islands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we made our decision whether we're going to stay or go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And was there a closing ceremony or just last day kind of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.137162310496286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Virgin Islands. Now it continued once we got in the country, once we went to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it wrap up in the Virgin Islands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we made our decision whether we're going to stay or go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And was there a closing ceremony or just last day kind of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember a ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then what happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.041291456106984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we made our decision whether we're going to stay or go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And was there a closing ceremony or just last day kind of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember a ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got on a plane and went to Ethiopia, to Addis Ababa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Virgin Islands?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.045879395674428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember a ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got on a plane and went to Ethiopia, to Addis Ababa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Virgin Islands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about, at what point? Hmm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.16208821741603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we got on a plane and went to Ethiopia, to Addis Ababa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Virgin Islands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about, at what point? Hmm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any home leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you pack for overseas? I mean, didn't you have to take, you know, enough handkerchiefs for two years kind of thing? Or was that provided? You could get it once you got in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.180098019351146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about, at what point? Hmm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any home leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you pack for overseas? I mean, didn't you have to take, you know, enough handkerchiefs for two years kind of thing? Or was that provided? You could get it once you got in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't remember a whole lot of luggage when I got to Addis Ababa. I think I had a suitcase and a backpack, so I don't. I might have come home. I don't remember that. I can't remember if there was a little interval where they said, you go home for 10 days and then we'll see you at the New York airport. Because it seems like that would be very expensive. I think once I started the training, the expectation was that I was going to Ethiopia. I think. I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was a big screening out that happened in Philadelphia, so the numbers kept going down. And then more. Was it a charter flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.311220021501272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any home leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you pack for overseas? I mean, didn't you have to take, you know, enough handkerchiefs for two years kind of thing? Or was that provided? You could get it once you got in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't remember a whole lot of luggage when I got to Addis Ababa. I think I had a suitcase and a backpack, so I don't. I might have come home. I don't remember that. I can't remember if there was a little interval where they said, you go home for 10 days and then we'll see you at the New York airport. Because it seems like that would be very expensive. I think once I started the training, the expectation was that I was going to Ethiopia. I think. I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was a big screening out that happened in Philadelphia, so the numbers kept going down. And then more. Was it a charter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's OK. You got to Ethiopia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.568022246112525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't remember a whole lot of luggage when I got to Addis Ababa. I think I had a suitcase and a backpack, so I don't. I might have come home. I don't remember that. I can't remember if there was a little interval where they said, you go home for 10 days and then we'll see you at the New York airport. Because it seems like that would be very expensive. I think once I started the training, the expectation was that I was going to Ethiopia. I think. I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was a big screening out that happened in Philadelphia, so the numbers kept going down. And then more. Was it a charter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's OK. You got to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we got to Ethiopia, stayed in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're in Addis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.96446916234725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's OK. You got to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we got to Ethiopia, stayed in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're in Addis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all, yeah, we were in Addis. And resumed some training there, some more language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first impression? I mean, now you're finally in the country where you're going to be serving. Do you recall your initial reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.293854624830278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we got to Ethiopia, stayed in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're in Addis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all, yeah, we were in Addis. And resumed some training there, some more language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first impression? I mean, now you're finally in the country where you're going to be serving. Do you recall your initial reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They characterize Addis Ababa as a large village. A city that's a large village. And I remember walking on the streets and, you know, right across the border here in San Diego is Tijuana. So I think I had some acculturation from that, from living in Japan, which was early fifties. From Okinawa, which is up. [tape break] Shocked at any conditions, but I think the poverty and the lack of infrastructure, the limitations on drinking the water. The people still in their, most of the people still wore their native dress, even in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a large number of Americans in and around Addis? Because Peace Corps was pretty big by then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.104282916478088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all, yeah, we were in Addis. And resumed some training there, some more language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first impression? I mean, now you're finally in the country where you're going to be serving. Do you recall your initial reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They characterize Addis Ababa as a large village. A city that's a large village. And I remember walking on the streets and, you know, right across the border here in San Diego is Tijuana. So I think I had some acculturation from that, from living in Japan, which was early fifties. From Okinawa, which is up. [tape break] Shocked at any conditions, but I think the poverty and the lack of infrastructure, the limitations on drinking the water. The people still in their, most of the people still wore their native dress, even in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a large number of Americans in and around Addis? Because Peace Corps was pretty big by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Peace Corps had a presence, a large building, but there were a lot of Ethiopians working there. A large presence. I don't remember seeing, for example, a British colony or an Italian colony in Addis Ababa. I think there was a French school, but you didn't see too many Americans. Now we were all in a hotel. I think it was for foreigners. I still remember that very vividly. Um. And we had our training in another hotel I remember on the rooftop. The weather was wonderful. It was summertime, so we did our training on a rooftop. Yeah. So I wasn't impressed by a large number of foreigners. As a dresser program, we did tour some hospital that had been built by the Seventh Day Adventists. That was good. Yeah, we saw some hospitals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you remember who the director of the project was at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.893647684975654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They characterize Addis Ababa as a large village. A city that's a large village. And I remember walking on the streets and, you know, right across the border here in San Diego is Tijuana. So I think I had some acculturation from that, from living in Japan, which was early fifties. From Okinawa, which is up. [tape break] Shocked at any conditions, but I think the poverty and the lack of infrastructure, the limitations on drinking the water. The people still in their, most of the people still wore their native dress, even in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a large number of Americans in and around Addis? Because Peace Corps was pretty big by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Peace Corps had a presence, a large building, but there were a lot of Ethiopians working there. A large presence. I don't remember seeing, for example, a British colony or an Italian colony in Addis Ababa. I think there was a French school, but you didn't see too many Americans. Now we were all in a hotel. I think it was for foreigners. I still remember that very vividly. Um. And we had our training in another hotel I remember on the rooftop. The weather was wonderful. It was summertime, so we did our training on a rooftop. Yeah. So I wasn't impressed by a large number of foreigners. As a dresser program, we did tour some hospital that had been built by the Seventh Day Adventists. That was good. Yeah, we saw some hospitals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you remember who the director of the project was at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let's see. David Levine comes to mind. I think he was the Ethiopia director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He would have been the country director. And then there was someone who was directing or heading the dresser project."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.659608538861837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Peace Corps had a presence, a large building, but there were a lot of Ethiopians working there. A large presence. I don't remember seeing, for example, a British colony or an Italian colony in Addis Ababa. I think there was a French school, but you didn't see too many Americans. Now we were all in a hotel. I think it was for foreigners. I still remember that very vividly. Um. And we had our training in another hotel I remember on the rooftop. The weather was wonderful. It was summertime, so we did our training on a rooftop. Yeah. So I wasn't impressed by a large number of foreigners. As a dresser program, we did tour some hospital that had been built by the Seventh Day Adventists. That was good. Yeah, we saw some hospitals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you remember who the director of the project was at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let's see. David Levine comes to mind. I think he was the Ethiopia director."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He would have been the country director. And then there was someone who was directing or heading the dresser project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could have been a woman by the first name of India. She might have been the dresser coordinator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you got to Ethiopia and you were in the hotel and you began further training, were you then training just with the dresser group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.456306838101034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could have been a woman by the first name of India. She might have been the dresser coordinator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So once you got to Ethiopia and you were in the hotel and you began further training, were you then training just with the dresser group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we divided off. Yeah, I don't remember any community developers or high school teachers or anything. I think we were 12 nurses, 12 of us, all going to dresser."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue the language training or was it expected that you'd just go out in the streets and talk to people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.507007597890038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we divided off. Yeah, I don't remember any community developers or high school teachers or anything. I think we were 12 nurses, 12 of us, all going to dresser."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue the language training or was it expected that you'd just go out in the streets and talk to people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we continued the language training. I still remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long was the in-country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.452230664322263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue the language training or was it expected that you'd just go out in the streets and talk to people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we continued the language training. I still remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long was the in-country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably another three or four weeks. I remember for some reason we went to Dire Dawa. I think we went to see the hospital in Dire Dawa. And there was a leper hospital facility we toured. You know, Dire Dawa is pretty far east, so that was pretty far away. So that was a real treat to go to Dire Dawa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.391367404802514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we continued the language training. I still remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long was the in-country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably another three or four weeks. I remember for some reason we went to Dire Dawa. I think we went to see the hospital in Dire Dawa. And there was a leper hospital facility we toured. You know, Dire Dawa is pretty far east, so that was pretty far away. So that was a real treat to go to Dire Dawa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all. We were all nurses. I think the nurses went there. Yeah, we flew there. And stayed in another hotel, had some more language training, and toured these hospitals. So that was probably about three weeks, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a clear sense emerging of what the project was going to be? You know, there was a job for you and you'd be expected to be doing this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.434852672002792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably another three or four weeks. I remember for some reason we went to Dire Dawa. I think we went to see the hospital in Dire Dawa. And there was a leper hospital facility we toured. You know, Dire Dawa is pretty far east, so that was pretty far away. So that was a real treat to go to Dire Dawa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all. We were all nurses. I think the nurses went there. Yeah, we flew there. And stayed in another hotel, had some more language training, and toured these hospitals. So that was probably about three weeks, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a clear sense emerging of what the project was going to be? You know, there was a job for you and you'd be expected to be doing this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were going to teach dressers. Oh yeah, we went to a dresser program. We went to a dresser school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To observe or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.594280746669769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all. We were all nurses. I think the nurses went there. Yeah, we flew there. And stayed in another hotel, had some more language training, and toured these hospitals. So that was probably about three weeks, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a clear sense emerging of what the project was going to be? You know, there was a job for you and you'd be expected to be doing this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were going to teach dressers. Oh yeah, we went to a dresser program. We went to a dresser school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To observe or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To observe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. One day or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.88253416296641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were going to teach dressers. Oh yeah, we went to a dresser program. We went to a dresser school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To observe or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To observe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. One day or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. No, two or three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were you champing at the bit by then saying, you know, enough already? I'm trained, you know, turn me loose."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.313926847740456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To observe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. One day or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. No, two or three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were you champing at the bit by then saying, you know, enough already? I'm trained, you know, turn me loose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And this training camp finally comes to an end. And what's the next step?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.091267713259821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And this training camp finally comes to an end. And what's the next step?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then we got our assignments. And I was assigned to the Etege Menen Hospital Dresser School in Asmara, Eritrea, which at the time was part of Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Etege Menen Hospital. So up I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Asmara on the coast?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.212519681399801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then we got our assignments. And I was assigned to the Etege Menen Hospital Dresser School in Asmara, Eritrea, which at the time was part of Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Etege Menen Hospital. So up I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Asmara on the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That's Mitsiwa. Yeah, Asmara could be called a mile high city. It's something like five thousand feet high. Probably 100 kilometers from the coast, from the Red Sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was formerly an Italian colony, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.458355201555333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Etege Menen Hospital. So up I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is Asmara on the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That's Mitsiwa. Yeah, Asmara could be called a mile high city. It's something like five thousand feet high. Probably 100 kilometers from the coast, from the Red Sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was formerly an Italian colony, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was formerly an Italian province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't know Tigrinya or Italian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.842616890617037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That's Mitsiwa. Yeah, Asmara could be called a mile high city. It's something like five thousand feet high. Probably 100 kilometers from the coast, from the Red Sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that was formerly an Italian colony, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was formerly an Italian province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't know Tigrinya or Italian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But you did know medical English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.714018767352263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was formerly an Italian province."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't know Tigrinya or Italian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But you did know medical English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew medical. I knew English. And I knew more Amharic than I would need for the next two years. Because most of the people in Eritrea were not interested in Amharic. They didn't want to speak Amharic. As you recall, the Tigrinya speaking provinces were not treated equally in Ethiopia. Haile Selassie himself was an Amhara and the Tigrinyas, you would probably call it today a quota system as far as opportunity goes. So at the University of Addis Ababa, they had a very low quota for Tigrinya speaking Eritreans. They were, there was animosity between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were aware of all this through training. Who made the decision as to where the nurses went? Was it an Ethiopian decision or was it a Peace Corps decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.571131963724737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But you did know medical English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew medical. I knew English. And I knew more Amharic than I would need for the next two years. Because most of the people in Eritrea were not interested in Amharic. They didn't want to speak Amharic. As you recall, the Tigrinya speaking provinces were not treated equally in Ethiopia. Haile Selassie himself was an Amhara and the Tigrinyas, you would probably call it today a quota system as far as opportunity goes. So at the University of Addis Ababa, they had a very low quota for Tigrinya speaking Eritreans. They were, there was animosity between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were aware of all this through training. Who made the decision as to where the nurses went? Was it an Ethiopian decision or was it a Peace Corps decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I couldn't answer that. We were working for the Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How were you being paid, by the way? By the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.523479959694152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew medical. I knew English. And I knew more Amharic than I would need for the next two years. Because most of the people in Eritrea were not interested in Amharic. They didn't want to speak Amharic. As you recall, the Tigrinya speaking provinces were not treated equally in Ethiopia. Haile Selassie himself was an Amhara and the Tigrinyas, you would probably call it today a quota system as far as opportunity goes. So at the University of Addis Ababa, they had a very low quota for Tigrinya speaking Eritreans. They were, there was animosity between the two groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were aware of all this through training. Who made the decision as to where the nurses went? Was it an Ethiopian decision or was it a Peace Corps decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I couldn't answer that. We were working for the Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How were you being paid, by the way? By the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think so. I think we were paid by the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Living allowance of some sort."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.581644399660169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I couldn't answer that. We were working for the Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How were you being paid, by the way? By the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think so. I think we were paid by the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Living allowance of some sort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they kept about a third of it back for the relocation allowance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to Asmara, is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.646271555177965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think so. I think we were paid by the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Living allowance of some sort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they kept about a third of it back for the relocation allowance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to Asmara, is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Asmara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go with everything you'd need to set up housekeeping or, again, were you going and that would be done once you got there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.829190616864405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they kept about a third of it back for the relocation allowance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to Asmara, is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Asmara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go with everything you'd need to set up housekeeping or, again, were you going and that would be done once you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be arranged once I got there. That wasn't prearranged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out alone or with others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.921322907627117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Asmara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go with everything you'd need to set up housekeeping or, again, were you going and that would be done once you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be arranged once I got there. That wasn't prearranged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out alone or with others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two other nurses, or maybe just one. There were, um, Mekelle is the next Tigray province down. And so I think that we all want to Asmara and then these others had to go by bus to their smaller dresser schools. I was rather centrally located in Asmara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were the only Peace Corps nurse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.134803230696797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be arranged once I got there. That wasn't prearranged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out alone or with others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two other nurses, or maybe just one. There were, um, Mekelle is the next Tigray province down. And so I think that we all want to Asmara and then these others had to go by bus to their smaller dresser schools. I was rather centrally located in Asmara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were the only Peace Corps nurse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were two of us I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they were, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.149781367440884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two other nurses, or maybe just one. There were, um, Mekelle is the next Tigray province down. And so I think that we all want to Asmara and then these others had to go by bus to their smaller dresser schools. I was rather centrally located in Asmara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were the only Peace Corps nurse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were two of us I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they were, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there, actually. I guess I don't remember one year to the next, but I think there were three in the beginning. But Jane only lasted a period of weeks and she was gone. She went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she had come with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.944201519378761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were two of us I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they were, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there, actually. I guess I don't remember one year to the next, but I think there were three in the beginning. But Jane only lasted a period of weeks and she was gone. She went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she had come with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she went through all the training, got to Asmara, saw what it would be for two years. I think she left a boyfriend back on the East Coast somewhere, and she just said, I'm not going to stay. So she left. But the other one is Lorraine, and she and I were. We did the whole two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about how you settled into being in Asmara, where you lived, and who you were accountable to, and how you sensed what the job was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.153911549216406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, we lived in a hotel in the beginning and went to the dresser school and my chief teacher's name was Mullah. And she was the head of the school, and, uh, so I was told that I would be teaching anatomy and physiology and beginning sciences. Um. And I started the year with them, so I think I started right at the beginning. But the interesting thing is they use syllabus, a syllabus, syllabi to teach their courses that had been developed by a couple of nurses before me and the school was still using them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "American nurses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "American nurses had been at that school before me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. So they were used to the Peace Corps nurses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a pretty good guide as to what you should be teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.059901721351563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "American nurses had been at that school before me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. So they were used to the Peace Corps nurses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a pretty good guide as to what you should be teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anywhere in training, did they expose you to instructional principles or how to organize, to teach or?\n\nNo. Not really. So you had never taught?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.066557468168403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. So they were used to the Peace Corps nurses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a pretty good guide as to what you should be teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anywhere in training, did they expose you to instructional principles or how to organize, to teach or?\n\nNo. Not really. So you had never taught?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been a student, but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.185063853520447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anywhere in training, did they expose you to instructional principles or how to organize, to teach or?\n\nNo. Not really. So you had never taught?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been a student, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'd been a practicing nurse, a student and a practicing nurse. In retrospect, I wish I had brought more textbooks with me to fill out the curriculum. Because the curriculum, the syllabi, were pretty simple. And uh, so I found myself, you know, what do I teach next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you take to the teaching role?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.983404281689385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd been a student, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'd been a practicing nurse, a student and a practicing nurse. In retrospect, I wish I had brought more textbooks with me to fill out the curriculum. Because the curriculum, the syllabi, were pretty simple. And uh, so I found myself, you know, what do I teach next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you take to the teaching role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was interesting. I probably made some boo boos and did some poor choices. But the students were eighth grade graduates of the Ethiopian school system, and they had started their English instruction at the fifth year of school, so they had three years of English behind them. And I think I wasn't sensitive enough to non-English speakers. I learned to simplify my language for, um, some of the slower students. And you could tell in their responses to certain, to what you taught. Did you comprehend this? And of course, they would nod yes, but sometimes they didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Were they all women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.648226979654872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'd been a practicing nurse, a student and a practicing nurse. In retrospect, I wish I had brought more textbooks with me to fill out the curriculum. Because the curriculum, the syllabi, were pretty simple. And uh, so I found myself, you know, what do I teach next?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you take to the teaching role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was interesting. I probably made some boo boos and did some poor choices. But the students were eighth grade graduates of the Ethiopian school system, and they had started their English instruction at the fifth year of school, so they had three years of English behind them. And I think I wasn't sensitive enough to non-English speakers. I learned to simplify my language for, um, some of the slower students. And you could tell in their responses to certain, to what you taught. Did you comprehend this? And of course, they would nod yes, but sometimes they didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Were they all women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The first year was mixed. Second year, they put me in charge to develop an advanced dresser program, because I was one of the few nurses that had a bachelor's degree in the country. And so I worked on advanced. And the decision was made that only men would be advanced dressers. So there was one girl who had gotten in as an exception policy. Her father was an influential mufti. Mufti, the Muslim religious leader in the community. And so he got his daughter as an exception to the rule. So she was the only female in this all boys class of advanced dressers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to the first year. You didn't stay in the hotel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.73855182673441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The first year was mixed. Second year, they put me in charge to develop an advanced dresser program, because I was one of the few nurses that had a bachelor's degree in the country. And so I worked on advanced. And the decision was made that only men would be advanced dressers. So there was one girl who had gotten in as an exception policy. Her father was an influential mufti. Mufti, the Muslim religious leader in the community. And so he got his daughter as an exception to the rule. So she was the only female in this all boys class of advanced dressers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to the first year. You didn't stay in the hotel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Let's see. My first. My first place was a little kind of a hut hollow thing in Asmara. Asmara had another very prominent institution in town, and that was an American Army base called Kagnew Station. And I found out that Kagnew Station was sort of a listening post to the Arab world. They had a big, what do you call those big?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dishes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dishes, yeah, so they would listen in on radio and things. And so there was. I'd been an Army nurse, so I went over one day and introduced myself to the chief nurse. And there was an Army nurse and there was a, right two blocks behind her there was a place that I rented. And it was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Off the base?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.265057585260456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Let's see. My first. My first place was a little kind of a hut hollow thing in Asmara. Asmara had another very prominent institution in town, and that was an American Army base called Kagnew Station. And I found out that Kagnew Station was sort of a listening post to the Arab world. They had a big, what do you call those big?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dishes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dishes, yeah, so they would listen in on radio and things. And so there was. I'd been an Army nurse, so I went over one day and introduced myself to the chief nurse. And there was an Army nurse and there was a, right two blocks behind her there was a place that I rented. And it was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Off the base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, oh yeah. It was off the base and it was like two rooms. And so I stayed there for six or eight months or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do for food?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.030935290445006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, oh yeah. It was off the base and it was like two rooms. And so I stayed there for six or eight months or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do for food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. Um, there was an Italian market. You know, Asmara is a big town. A lot of Italian influence. So there was a market that we got credit from. So I guess when we get paid, we'd go down and pay the bill. And so I had some just very elementary food. And then at lunchtime, there was a nurse's cafeteria. Well, there was an eating place, and I think I just probably brought a little sandwich usually with me. Eat there. And then at nighttime, there were some little Italian restaurants, and I guess I had maybe, uh, maybe a stove of some sort. I don't remember. I'm not much of a cook, and I don't. I hardly remember what I did. Oh yeah, I had these other. There were 13 Peace Corps volunteers in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were like three nurses, and the rest mostly were high school teachers. So a lot of the times we would go to each other's place, you know, have dinner together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the school where you lived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3677058782722296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. Um, there was an Italian market. You know, Asmara is a big town. A lot of Italian influence. So there was a market that we got credit from. So I guess when we get paid, we'd go down and pay the bill. And so I had some just very elementary food. And then at lunchtime, there was a nurse's cafeteria. Well, there was an eating place, and I think I just probably brought a little sandwich usually with me. Eat there. And then at nighttime, there were some little Italian restaurants, and I guess I had maybe, uh, maybe a stove of some sort. I don't remember. I'm not much of a cook, and I don't. I hardly remember what I did. Oh yeah, I had these other. There were 13 Peace Corps volunteers in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were like three nurses, and the rest mostly were high school teachers. So a lot of the times we would go to each other's place, you know, have dinner together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the school where you lived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's probably a mile, mile and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get back and forth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7418954203024772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were like three nurses, and the rest mostly were high school teachers. So a lot of the times we would go to each other's place, you know, have dinner together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far were you from the school where you lived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's probably a mile, mile and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you bought a bike?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1576615781138635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's probably a mile, mile and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you bought a bike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all had bikes. Bought a bike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was there a Peace Corps office in Asmara?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.61962397568207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you bought a bike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all had bikes. Bought a bike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was there a Peace Corps office in Asmara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you advised or were any guidelines set as far as your relations with Kagnew base?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.132915528535634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all had bikes. Bought a bike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was there a Peace Corps office in Asmara?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you advised or were any guidelines set as far as your relations with Kagnew base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were advised. We were advised. Stay away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any reason given or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.6692942778266575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they didn't want to ally us with any CIA, um, activities, any military, government, governmental affiliations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went over to the base occasionally, I must confess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Socially there were Army nurses I got to know, and so I abused that somewhat. And actually, I got called in to the director's office one time for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did? Who was that director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.18810475314073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went over to the base occasionally, I must confess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Socially there were Army nurses I got to know, and so I abused that somewhat. And actually, I got called in to the director's office one time for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did? Who was that director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember his name. I remember he was from St. John's University. I can't remember his name, but he strongly advised me to stay away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't threaten you, though, saying you'll be on the next plane out of here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.405067596470037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember his name. I remember he was from St. John's University. I can't remember his name, but he strongly advised me to stay away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't threaten you, though, saying you'll be on the next plane out of here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They felt very strongly about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it work the other way? There must have been some temptation on the part of soldiers based at the base to want to come out and socialize with the Peace Corps people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.116741773855597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He might have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They felt very strongly about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it work the other way? There must have been some temptation on the part of soldiers based at the base to want to come out and socialize with the Peace Corps people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember that ever happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. They may have been under restrictions too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.796379748728441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They felt very strongly about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it work the other way? There must have been some temptation on the part of soldiers based at the base to want to come out and socialize with the Peace Corps people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember that ever happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. They may have been under restrictions too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember that happening. Now that one nurse bought me a turkey at the commissary once and we had Thanksgiving. But among Peace Corps. The nurse wasn't invited. Yeah, I still remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the turkey bugged?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.921456479911655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember that happening. Now that one nurse bought me a turkey at the commissary once and we had Thanksgiving. But among Peace Corps. The nurse wasn't invited. Yeah, I still remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the turkey bugged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't think so. No, there wasn't much. One time there was an anesthetist nurse at the hospital and I said, would you like to come to Etege Menen to see how the anesthesia is given? So she went over there and I remember talking to her afterward and she said they're still doing the ether drip technique. We haven't used that in, you know, millennia at our hospital because they were using the machinery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, I, um, I was told in no uncertain terms to curtail that, that going over there. So I did. I didn't go on the base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the living situation of the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.468284977679617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't think so. No, there wasn't much. One time there was an anesthetist nurse at the hospital and I said, would you like to come to Etege Menen to see how the anesthesia is given? So she went over there and I remember talking to her afterward and she said they're still doing the ether drip technique. We haven't used that in, you know, millennia at our hospital because they were using the machinery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, I, um, I was told in no uncertain terms to curtail that, that going over there. So I did. I didn't go on the base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the living situation of the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very good. Most of, some of them lived with their families. They were given a stipend every month of about twelve dollars. And with that, they were to buy their food and their lodging if they needed to. So those who didn't live with their families, a lot of them would live together. And I remember going to one boy's house once, and it was just a small room about the size of a big bathroom. And the common food that they ate was sort of a bean curd dish called suwa. And I guess it had the protein in it that they needed. But yeah, but it was pretty meager for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the students dress?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.075872197421797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, I, um, I was told in no uncertain terms to curtail that, that going over there. So I did. I didn't go on the base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the living situation of the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very good. Most of, some of them lived with their families. They were given a stipend every month of about twelve dollars. And with that, they were to buy their food and their lodging if they needed to. So those who didn't live with their families, a lot of them would live together. And I remember going to one boy's house once, and it was just a small room about the size of a big bathroom. And the common food that they ate was sort of a bean curd dish called suwa. And I guess it had the protein in it that they needed. But yeah, but it was pretty meager for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the students dress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just barely made it. They had a uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Khaki shorts or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.750969108246441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very good. Most of, some of them lived with their families. They were given a stipend every month of about twelve dollars. And with that, they were to buy their food and their lodging if they needed to. So those who didn't live with their families, a lot of them would live together. And I remember going to one boy's house once, and it was just a small room about the size of a big bathroom. And the common food that they ate was sort of a bean curd dish called suwa. And I guess it had the protein in it that they needed. But yeah, but it was pretty meager for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the students dress?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just barely made it. They had a uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Khaki shorts or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was something like you would see in the operating room today here. It was cotton pants and a kind of an operating room top. So that was the dresser uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within the culture that you sensed, was it prestigious to be in training for it to be a dresser or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.501076786940489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just barely made it. They had a uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Khaki shorts or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was something like you would see in the operating room today here. It was cotton pants and a kind of an operating room top. So that was the dresser uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within the culture that you sensed, was it prestigious to be in training for it to be a dresser or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes. They felt very, very lucky. Jobs were not too plentiful, but they had to have some courage because their obligation was to go off to a dresser station, which was normally located in a village. And they were the first line of medical care, trained Western medical care, for a whole village. So they were given a lot of responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an existing network of local clinics, which is where the dresses would work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.890085318822765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was something like you would see in the operating room today here. It was cotton pants and a kind of an operating room top. So that was the dresser uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within the culture that you sensed, was it prestigious to be in training for it to be a dresser or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes. They felt very, very lucky. Jobs were not too plentiful, but they had to have some courage because their obligation was to go off to a dresser station, which was normally located in a village. And they were the first line of medical care, trained Western medical care, for a whole village. So they were given a lot of responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an existing network of local clinics, which is where the dresses would work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Would work. Now they didn't necessarily. They weren't necessarily assigned to an Eritrean clinic, village. Some of them would go all the way over to Harar, which is all the way across the country. And in fact, the sense was that they did send the Eritreans into Ethiopia. See, they all knew the Amharic language. The Amharic language was taught in the schools. So they all knew the Amharic language. Amharas didn't know Tigrinya language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were trilingual at least."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.322317020914183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes. They felt very, very lucky. Jobs were not too plentiful, but they had to have some courage because their obligation was to go off to a dresser station, which was normally located in a village. And they were the first line of medical care, trained Western medical care, for a whole village. So they were given a lot of responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an existing network of local clinics, which is where the dresses would work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Would work. Now they didn't necessarily. They weren't necessarily assigned to an Eritrean clinic, village. Some of them would go all the way over to Harar, which is all the way across the country. And in fact, the sense was that they did send the Eritreans into Ethiopia. See, they all knew the Amharic language. The Amharic language was taught in the schools. So they all knew the Amharic language. Amharas didn't know Tigrinya language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were trilingual at least."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least. A lot of the students knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably knew some Italian as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.691463356571315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Would work. Now they didn't necessarily. They weren't necessarily assigned to an Eritrean clinic, village. Some of them would go all the way over to Harar, which is all the way across the country. And in fact, the sense was that they did send the Eritreans into Ethiopia. See, they all knew the Amharic language. The Amharic language was taught in the schools. So they all knew the Amharic language. Amharas didn't know Tigrinya language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were trilingual at least."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least. A lot of the students knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably knew some Italian as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Italian, and a lot of them had tribal languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aside from Tigrinya?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1016259517459055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least. A lot of the students knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably knew some Italian as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Italian, and a lot of them had tribal languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aside from Tigrinya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there could be a language where as few as one hundred people spoke. And then there was a regional language, and then there was a, you know, it got bigger and bigger and more expansive all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you visit out to any of the clinics?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.557362168606562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Italian, and a lot of them had tribal languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aside from Tigrinya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there could be a language where as few as one hundred people spoke. And then there was a regional language, and then there was a, you know, it got bigger and bigger and more expansive all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you visit out to any of the clinics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went to one or two of the clinics to see the dresser stations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your choice or just was expected of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.06373574289618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there could be a language where as few as one hundred people spoke. And then there was a regional language, and then there was a, you know, it got bigger and bigger and more expansive all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you visit out to any of the clinics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went to one or two of the clinics to see the dresser stations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your choice or just was expected of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think it was expected. Oh, the students had two tracks actually. They could go to the dresser stations or they could work in a hospital on the nursing staff, as a nursing aide. So, you know, if they, well, they were usually assigned. They didn't have too much to do with the assignment, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have anything to do about evaluating and recommending? You know, this is a person who's stronger in medical skills or more independent?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.626373047662422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went to one or two of the clinics to see the dresser stations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your choice or just was expected of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think it was expected. Oh, the students had two tracks actually. They could go to the dresser stations or they could work in a hospital on the nursing staff, as a nursing aide. So, you know, if they, well, they were usually assigned. They didn't have too much to do with the assignment, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have anything to do about evaluating and recommending? You know, this is a person who's stronger in medical skills or more independent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a teachers conference. Now Mullah was the one who did the, who talked to the Ministry of Health more directly than I did, but we would have faculty conferences about the students and their skills. And it was small enough that everybody pretty well knew everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were on the faculty?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.251525608513802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I think it was expected. Oh, the students had two tracks actually. They could go to the dresser stations or they could work in a hospital on the nursing staff, as a nursing aide. So, you know, if they, well, they were usually assigned. They didn't have too much to do with the assignment, as I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have anything to do about evaluating and recommending? You know, this is a person who's stronger in medical skills or more independent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a teachers conference. Now Mullah was the one who did the, who talked to the Ministry of Health more directly than I did, but we would have faculty conferences about the students and their skills. And it was small enough that everybody pretty well knew everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were on the faculty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably four. Four of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.835028453904225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a teachers conference. Now Mullah was the one who did the, who talked to the Ministry of Health more directly than I did, but we would have faculty conferences about the students and their skills. And it was small enough that everybody pretty well knew everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were on the faculty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably four. Four of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two American and two Ethiopian. Both of them RNs. And Mullah had gone to the American University in Beirut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Mullah was the head of the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.483364948782472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably four. Four of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two American and two Ethiopian. Both of them RNs. And Mullah had gone to the American University in Beirut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Mullah was the head of the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's, yeah. So there were three Ethiopians in your work, immediate work environment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.203738831980524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two American and two Ethiopian. Both of them RNs. And Mullah had gone to the American University in Beirut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Mullah was the head of the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's, yeah. So there were three Ethiopians in your work, immediate work environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two teachers plus Mullah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.004154257756138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's, yeah. So there were three Ethiopians in your work, immediate work environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two teachers plus Mullah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No. Mullah was one of those. So there were two, two of them and two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you weren't teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6712825086179315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two teachers plus Mullah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No. Mullah was one of those. So there were two, two of them and two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you weren't teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Preparation. Our preparation. Because the students had a lot of clinical experiences. So once we got them through the basics, and the basics were pretty basic, like teaching them how to use a telephone, proving the germ theory of disease. We'd do some experiments where you'd culture a wound or culture something dirty and put it in an incubator kind of a thing. And then put the penicillin on it and maybe see a hole where the other, where the bacterial growth was around the outside, but where the medicine was on the inside. Um, because some of them hadn't grown up with the Western concept of disease. So when I wasn't teaching, there was a preparation period. And then the nurses at the hospital were the direct supervisors of the students. But we would go and see how things were going at the various assignments. So in the afternoons, that's where you'd be, you'd be on the wards, checking students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did classroom in the morning and then practicals in the hospital afternoons for the most part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.412536120686591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No. Mullah was one of those. So there were two, two of them and two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you weren't teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Preparation. Our preparation. Because the students had a lot of clinical experiences. So once we got them through the basics, and the basics were pretty basic, like teaching them how to use a telephone, proving the germ theory of disease. We'd do some experiments where you'd culture a wound or culture something dirty and put it in an incubator kind of a thing. And then put the penicillin on it and maybe see a hole where the other, where the bacterial growth was around the outside, but where the medicine was on the inside. Um, because some of them hadn't grown up with the Western concept of disease. So when I wasn't teaching, there was a preparation period. And then the nurses at the hospital were the direct supervisors of the students. But we would go and see how things were going at the various assignments. So in the afternoons, that's where you'd be, you'd be on the wards, checking students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did classroom in the morning and then practicals in the hospital afternoons for the most part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that put you in, you would follow, you'd be in the hospital as well. Did you get to, did you become friends with any of either the faculty or any of the staff of the hospital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.236151245207322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Preparation. Our preparation. Because the students had a lot of clinical experiences. So once we got them through the basics, and the basics were pretty basic, like teaching them how to use a telephone, proving the germ theory of disease. We'd do some experiments where you'd culture a wound or culture something dirty and put it in an incubator kind of a thing. And then put the penicillin on it and maybe see a hole where the other, where the bacterial growth was around the outside, but where the medicine was on the inside. Um, because some of them hadn't grown up with the Western concept of disease. So when I wasn't teaching, there was a preparation period. And then the nurses at the hospital were the direct supervisors of the students. But we would go and see how things were going at the various assignments. So in the afternoons, that's where you'd be, you'd be on the wards, checking students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they did classroom in the morning and then practicals in the hospital afternoons for the most part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that put you in, you would follow, you'd be in the hospital as well. Did you get to, did you become friends with any of either the faculty or any of the staff of the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You'd go over occasionally to their homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wasn't awkward or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.151279161341469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that put you in, you would follow, you'd be in the hospital as well. Did you get to, did you become friends with any of either the faculty or any of the staff of the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You'd go over occasionally to their homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wasn't awkward or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "8 Yeah. Did you have a chance to get a sense of traditional beliefs in relation to health and body and so forth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.168087957046076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. You'd go over occasionally to their homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that wasn't awkward or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "8 Yeah. Did you have a chance to get a sense of traditional beliefs in relation to health and body and so forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, occasionally. Somebody would tell a story about how somebody had been treated for this or that. Um, yeah, there was quite a little folklore. I guess we had it in training. I still have a really good booklet about some of the beliefs. For example, you know, the eyes. The flies around the eyes is a terrible problem in Ethiopia, and it leads to trachoma, which is an infection of the eyes. And so one of the, we found out that one of the local remedies or the national remedy was to put these slat slits, cut the skin and let it bleed. And that was supposed to drain out the infection, because blindness was just a terrible problem in Ethiopia. And you go into the villages and you'd see these kids with flies all over their faces and even adults who seemed to get used to it. So slitting the eyes and a lot of people walked around with those slits in their eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the scars would form."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.703075685179204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we didn't use the word bewitched. But yeah, there were forces beyond your control that caused diseases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you deal with that in your teaching? Obviously, you're trying to take a rational American approach. You know, this is germs do exist and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that they knew that that wasn't part of the curriculum. So I really don't remember much confrontation. Yeah. I think among themselves, they might have mixed some of the two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't like, for example, later I heard, if you go down to Mali and Botswana and some of those places, they have witch doctors down there who mix up a potion. But I didn't really see much of that in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't any, little of it was being openly expressed in the classroom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.744537882937289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't like, for example, later I heard, if you go down to Mali and Botswana and some of those places, they have witch doctors down there who mix up a potion. But I didn't really see much of that in Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't any, little of it was being openly expressed in the classroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little of it, yeah. Also, it's a great omission on my part, and I wonder today why I didn't know more about it, but you know, the female circumcision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's practiced in Ethiopia. Now, whether it was so accepted culturally that it just wasn't brought up as a medical problem that we discussed, or whether I was just oblivious to it, that I didn't even know very much about it to be honest with you. I didn't confront that, even in the ob- gyn experiences, when the kids, when the students would accompany the home health nurse for a home delivery. And I went a couple of times, I didn't see that as a factor. Maybe it's because I just I didn't put my face right in front of the opening where the delivery was very much. But it's there and were I to go today, I would certainly bring up discussions about it in the groups.\n\nAnd it's one of those cultural things, though, where you've got to be very, very cautious about disclaiming it. But you can certainly bring up some of the consequences of it. I do that today, I'm, today I'm much more able to discuss these things. I think I had some, some, I didn't want to overstep my boundaries knowing that I was bringing in a new kind of medicine for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been built into training also, you know, you're defining a role with this awareness of traditional beliefs and local culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.938375425485876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little of it, yeah. Also, it's a great omission on my part, and I wonder today why I didn't know more about it, but you know, the female circumcision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's practiced in Ethiopia. Now, whether it was so accepted culturally that it just wasn't brought up as a medical problem that we discussed, or whether I was just oblivious to it, that I didn't even know very much about it to be honest with you. I didn't confront that, even in the ob- gyn experiences, when the kids, when the students would accompany the home health nurse for a home delivery. And I went a couple of times, I didn't see that as a factor. Maybe it's because I just I didn't put my face right in front of the opening where the delivery was very much. But it's there and were I to go today, I would certainly bring up discussions about it in the groups.\n\nAnd it's one of those cultural things, though, where you've got to be very, very cautious about disclaiming it. But you can certainly bring up some of the consequences of it. I do that today, I'm, today I'm much more able to discuss these things. I think I had some, some, I didn't want to overstep my boundaries knowing that I was bringing in a new kind of medicine for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been built into training also, you know, you're defining a role with this awareness of traditional beliefs and local culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think some of the training covered that, but I don't think it was focused on it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're in a more interesting crossroads of that because, you know, medicine is so specific. I mean, it's different if I'm teaching an English class. The cultural differences, you know, can be dealt with differently. But I mean, it can be just a direct clash when it comes to a science."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.170833858624537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think some of the training covered that, but I don't think it was focused on it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're in a more interesting crossroads of that because, you know, medicine is so specific. I mean, it's different if I'm teaching an English class. The cultural differences, you know, can be dealt with differently. But I mean, it can be just a direct clash when it comes to a science."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. And um, you know, I think this open confrontation has really opened up since the sixties. For example, I remember in my early nursing days here in this country where somebody had a serious disease, you didn't always tell that person that they had that disease. You might keep it from them. So we were even suppressed in this country as far as just frankly discussing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. This was the first year you were teaching the basic courses and supervising the practicals. Did you become friends with any of the students? Was that permitted, was it appropriate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not the dresser students, but almost all of us had a language teacher. So I had a Tigrinya language teacher. He was twelfth grade. He was Hilee. And Hilee and I would go for walks and into the city and he'd point out something and give me the name of it and all that. And of course, as a 12th grader, he was very interested in accelerating his English skills. So it ended up I was paying him to teach him English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you arrange that on your own initiative or did Peace Corps say you should do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.300926509582819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. And um, you know, I think this open confrontation has really opened up since the sixties. For example, I remember in my early nursing days here in this country where somebody had a serious disease, you didn't always tell that person that they had that disease. You might keep it from them. So we were even suppressed in this country as far as just frankly discussing things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. This was the first year you were teaching the basic courses and supervising the practicals. Did you become friends with any of the students? Was that permitted, was it appropriate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not the dresser students, but almost all of us had a language teacher. So I had a Tigrinya language teacher. He was twelfth grade. He was Hilee. And Hilee and I would go for walks and into the city and he'd point out something and give me the name of it and all that. And of course, as a 12th grader, he was very interested in accelerating his English skills. So it ended up I was paying him to teach him English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you arrange that on your own initiative or did Peace Corps say you should do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the students got handed down from one volunteer to another, and I think Hilee got handed down, as I recall, because he was readily, he was right there. I mean, I didn't have to go searching for him. But in, you know, there were 13. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What finally happened to Hilee?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.334362788425354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not the dresser students, but almost all of us had a language teacher. So I had a Tigrinya language teacher. He was twelfth grade. He was Hilee. And Hilee and I would go for walks and into the city and he'd point out something and give me the name of it and all that. And of course, as a 12th grader, he was very interested in accelerating his English skills. So it ended up I was paying him to teach him English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you arrange that on your own initiative or did Peace Corps say you should do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the students got handed down from one volunteer to another, and I think Hilee got handed down, as I recall, because he was readily, he was right there. I mean, I didn't have to go searching for him. But in, you know, there were 13. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What finally happened to Hilee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he wrote me a letter after I got back. And he wanted me to sponsor him to come to the States. While we were there, he was interested in biking, bicycling, and he wanted to actually compete. Bicycles are kind of a luxurious form of transportation in a country that's as poor as Ethiopia. I remember learning a statistic like the average income for Ethiopian was 50 dollars a year. So there's not much money around. But he was interested in biking and I guess he was good at it and he wanted me to sponsor him so that he could eat better, so he could have more protein, more meat to eat. Which I, well, I paid him to teach me the lessons and I gave him a little bit of extra, but I didn't have a whole lot myself, so I didn't sponsor him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health problems yourself during the first year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.482625320472616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the students got handed down from one volunteer to another, and I think Hilee got handed down, as I recall, because he was readily, he was right there. I mean, I didn't have to go searching for him. But in, you know, there were 13. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What finally happened to Hilee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he wrote me a letter after I got back. And he wanted me to sponsor him to come to the States. While we were there, he was interested in biking, bicycling, and he wanted to actually compete. Bicycles are kind of a luxurious form of transportation in a country that's as poor as Ethiopia. I remember learning a statistic like the average income for Ethiopian was 50 dollars a year. So there's not much money around. But he was interested in biking and I guess he was good at it and he wanted me to sponsor him so that he could eat better, so he could have more protein, more meat to eat. Which I, well, I paid him to teach me the lessons and I gave him a little bit of extra, but I didn't have a whole lot myself, so I didn't sponsor him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health problems yourself during the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no health problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you vulnerable, with the bike was it? Were bikes stolen or was security a problem at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.758472578302907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he wrote me a letter after I got back. And he wanted me to sponsor him to come to the States. While we were there, he was interested in biking, bicycling, and he wanted to actually compete. Bicycles are kind of a luxurious form of transportation in a country that's as poor as Ethiopia. I remember learning a statistic like the average income for Ethiopian was 50 dollars a year. So there's not much money around. But he was interested in biking and I guess he was good at it and he wanted me to sponsor him so that he could eat better, so he could have more protein, more meat to eat. Which I, well, I paid him to teach me the lessons and I gave him a little bit of extra, but I didn't have a whole lot myself, so I didn't sponsor him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any health problems yourself during the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no health problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you vulnerable, with the bike was it? Were bikes stolen or was security a problem at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my bike wasn't stolen. I didn't stay in that little hovel. I eventually moved in with two other women. One was Peace Corps and one was a British volunteer. And we had a, oh, we just, we never had our bike stolen. But you'd asked something else I wanted to address. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened to Hilee?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.842747309225452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no health problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you vulnerable, with the bike was it? Were bikes stolen or was security a problem at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my bike wasn't stolen. I didn't stay in that little hovel. I eventually moved in with two other women. One was Peace Corps and one was a British volunteer. And we had a, oh, we just, we never had our bike stolen. But you'd asked something else I wanted to address. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened to Hilee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh, did I have troubles with bicycles? I actually had an accident. My chain fell off when I was going down a hill and I ended up, uh, I guess straining my rotator cuff, which is the. I'll do it on this arm. It's easier. It's the one that allows you to move your arm around like a windmill. And to this day, I have a little trouble with it. So I had that injury and I walked around like this for probably 10 years before it ever got repaired. So that's the only trouble I had with the bicycle. I guess I went for about a year without riding in a vehicle, in a car, and then I guess I got in a car. Maybe we went to Addis once in the car. I don't know. Once a year or so we'd go up to Addis Ababa for kind of a refresher thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole group would gather?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.0474970102505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my bike wasn't stolen. I didn't stay in that little hovel. I eventually moved in with two other women. One was Peace Corps and one was a British volunteer. And we had a, oh, we just, we never had our bike stolen. But you'd asked something else I wanted to address. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened to Hilee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Oh, did I have troubles with bicycles? I actually had an accident. My chain fell off when I was going down a hill and I ended up, uh, I guess straining my rotator cuff, which is the. I'll do it on this arm. It's easier. It's the one that allows you to move your arm around like a windmill. And to this day, I have a little trouble with it. So I had that injury and I walked around like this for probably 10 years before it ever got repaired. So that's the only trouble I had with the bicycle. I guess I went for about a year without riding in a vehicle, in a car, and then I guess I got in a car. Maybe we went to Addis once in the car. I don't know. Once a year or so we'd go up to Addis Ababa for kind of a refresher thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole group would gather?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I think so. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So life was pretty simple. I mean, you didn't, no TV, no radio."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.76234198796358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I think so. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So life was pretty simple. I mean, you didn't, no TV, no radio."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the night the men landed on the moon. My cat had a baby in the bed and I woke up. My feet were wet because of having the baby. So I remember the moon landing. So I had a radio. Uh, had a tape player, one of those reel-to-reel things for music. But yeah, I guess we just talked most evenings. And there was a theater in town because it had been an Italian colony. So Asmara was a more. Addis Ababa was characterized as the village, a large village, and Asmara is characterized as a city, a small city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were restaurants"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.1803799866262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a radio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the night the men landed on the moon. My cat had a baby in the bed and I woke up. My feet were wet because of having the baby. So I remember the moon landing. So I had a radio. Uh, had a tape player, one of those reel-to-reel things for music. But yeah, I guess we just talked most evenings. And there was a theater in town because it had been an Italian colony. So Asmara was a more. Addis Ababa was characterized as the village, a large village, and Asmara is characterized as a city, a small city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were restaurants"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were restaurants, yeah, and, uh, Italian food. So you didn't have to eat Ethiopian food all the time. Now a lot of volunteers in the smaller areas of Mekelle, they ate Ethiopian food a lot. I still get tickled at this one water resources fella. He had so much trouble with Amharic in training in the Virgin Islands. I mean, he could not get the concept. A year later, we saw him at one of these recall meetings. He spoke fluent Amharic, fluent Amharic, because he was thrown into a village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Live or die."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.755977762917999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the night the men landed on the moon. My cat had a baby in the bed and I woke up. My feet were wet because of having the baby. So I remember the moon landing. So I had a radio. Uh, had a tape player, one of those reel-to-reel things for music. But yeah, I guess we just talked most evenings. And there was a theater in town because it had been an Italian colony. So Asmara was a more. Addis Ababa was characterized as the village, a large village, and Asmara is characterized as a city, a small city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were restaurants"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were restaurants, yeah, and, uh, Italian food. So you didn't have to eat Ethiopian food all the time. Now a lot of volunteers in the smaller areas of Mekelle, they ate Ethiopian food a lot. I still get tickled at this one water resources fella. He had so much trouble with Amharic in training in the Virgin Islands. I mean, he could not get the concept. A year later, we saw him at one of these recall meetings. He spoke fluent Amharic, fluent Amharic, because he was thrown into a village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Live or die."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. So um yeah. Everyday life was actually pretty good. We, the water. Sometimes you'd have to save the water because it wasn't always coming through the pipes. But it wasn't a terrible problem. Hand washing the clothes. When we moved into it, when I moved in with those other two, life got pretty good because we shared so much and we had a house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a servant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.451824398664193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. So um yeah. Everyday life was actually pretty good. We, the water. Sometimes you'd have to save the water because it wasn't always coming through the pipes. But it wasn't a terrible problem. Hand washing the clothes. When we moved into it, when I moved in with those other two, life got pretty good because we shared so much and we had a house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a servant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hired on one woman when I was in the little hovel thing, but she was like taking my. I remember she took my firewood or something, so I said, oh, that's all right. There wasn't much to do anyway around my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during vacations? There must have been breaks in the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.835360442960216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hired on one woman when I was in the little hovel thing, but she was like taking my. I remember she took my firewood or something, so I said, oh, that's all right. There wasn't much to do anyway around my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during vacations? There must have been breaks in the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. There was a regular school year. Well, between the first and the second year, these two guys and I decided to go to Kenya and I think we wanted to climb Kilimanjaro. So I had my old army boots I remember or I got them somewhere, and an army jacket and some khaki pants. And we climbed Kilimanjaro. They had jeans and heavy jackets, and one guy had cowboy boots. And we just went up there where you go to climb Kilimanjaro and there was a team going with porters and stuff, and we had backpacks and we just latched on. And I think we probably gave them a hundred dollars, maybe, and now people spend thousands of dollars. So we climbed that and went around Nairobi. Let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have seen some of the game parks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.817067158844683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hired on one woman when I was in the little hovel thing, but she was like taking my. I remember she took my firewood or something, so I said, oh, that's all right. There wasn't much to do anyway around my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during vacations? There must have been breaks in the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. There was a regular school year. Well, between the first and the second year, these two guys and I decided to go to Kenya and I think we wanted to climb Kilimanjaro. So I had my old army boots I remember or I got them somewhere, and an army jacket and some khaki pants. And we climbed Kilimanjaro. They had jeans and heavy jackets, and one guy had cowboy boots. And we just went up there where you go to climb Kilimanjaro and there was a team going with porters and stuff, and we had backpacks and we just latched on. And I think we probably gave them a hundred dollars, maybe, and now people spend thousands of dollars. So we climbed that and went around Nairobi. Let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have seen some of the game parks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, we did. Saw some game parks. And we even flew. And I don't remember if it was like a Christmas holiday and not summer or what, but we flew to Madagascar. These two guys. We must have been good friends. I still keep in contact with them. Yeah. So we went to Madagascar once and stayed for about a week. Where else? Within Ethiopia, there were some amazing cities that we got to see. Lalibela."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I haven't seen it yet."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.685630176494092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. There was a regular school year. Well, between the first and the second year, these two guys and I decided to go to Kenya and I think we wanted to climb Kilimanjaro. So I had my old army boots I remember or I got them somewhere, and an army jacket and some khaki pants. And we climbed Kilimanjaro. They had jeans and heavy jackets, and one guy had cowboy boots. And we just went up there where you go to climb Kilimanjaro and there was a team going with porters and stuff, and we had backpacks and we just latched on. And I think we probably gave them a hundred dollars, maybe, and now people spend thousands of dollars. So we climbed that and went around Nairobi. Let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have seen some of the game parks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, we did. Saw some game parks. And we even flew. And I don't remember if it was like a Christmas holiday and not summer or what, but we flew to Madagascar. These two guys. We must have been good friends. I still keep in contact with them. Yeah. So we went to Madagascar once and stayed for about a week. Where else? Within Ethiopia, there were some amazing cities that we got to see. Lalibela."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I haven't seen it yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Home of the monolithic churches. Axum, the old capital of Ethiopia and it has the stone obelisk. Yeah, that was really wonderful. And I think it's called the Church of the Queen Mary or something where the Ark of the Covenant is supposed to be sequestered and one monk devotes his whole life to guarding that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You take a lot of pictures?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.7970742919680145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Home of the monolithic churches. Axum, the old capital of Ethiopia and it has the stone obelisk. Yeah, that was really wonderful. And I think it's called the Church of the Queen Mary or something where the Ark of the Covenant is supposed to be sequestered and one monk devotes his whole life to guarding that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You take a lot of pictures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. Oh yeah. One time we climbed. Another group climbed the highest mountain in Ethiopia. It's called Ras Dashen [or Ras Dejen]. And that was a 10-day trek. And that was a, that was a walk through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a walk through time. I'll tell you, some of these villages were very mountainous, of course, and I think Ras Dashen is ten thousand feet high, not too high. But, you know, bartering for food with the folks and in turn giving them metal containers so that they could carry water. The metal containers were quite sought after and then we'd get, maybe they had a lamb, so they gave us part of the lamb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any restrictions on your travel from Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.218971435520016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot. Oh yeah. One time we climbed. Another group climbed the highest mountain in Ethiopia. It's called Ras Dashen [or Ras Dejen]. And that was a 10-day trek. And that was a, that was a walk through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a walk through time. I'll tell you, some of these villages were very mountainous, of course, and I think Ras Dashen is ten thousand feet high, not too high. But, you know, bartering for food with the folks and in turn giving them metal containers so that they could carry water. The metal containers were quite sought after and then we'd get, maybe they had a lamb, so they gave us part of the lamb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any restrictions on your travel from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we couldn't go to south Africa. Couldn't go down there. That was our restriction. But as far as in country, no. No restrictions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Saudi Arabia or anything, but not that anyone would want to go. But who knows?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.687746039466685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a walk through time. I'll tell you, some of these villages were very mountainous, of course, and I think Ras Dashen is ten thousand feet high, not too high. But, you know, bartering for food with the folks and in turn giving them metal containers so that they could carry water. The metal containers were quite sought after and then we'd get, maybe they had a lamb, so they gave us part of the lamb."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any restrictions on your travel from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we couldn't go to south Africa. Couldn't go down there. That was our restriction. But as far as in country, no. No restrictions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Saudi Arabia or anything, but not that anyone would want to go. But who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Near East?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.441661777119364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Near East?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at that time. Not that I know of. Yemen. Yemen was right across the Red Sea, but nobody ever went over there for some reason. Nobody that I know of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't even know of any, you know, you could literally take a ferry from A to B to get to the other side, but nobody that I know of ever did it. At the airport in Asmara, sometimes you'd see the Yemeni people, but I don't know anybody who tried. I guess Ethiopia was interesting for us and Kenya would have been interesting. So I think we just didn't know much about Yemen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As your first year came to an end, did you do any looking back, looking forward? You know, well, I'm doing what I hope to do. Or do you recall how it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8240686412437377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at that time. Not that I know of. Yemen. Yemen was right across the Red Sea, but nobody ever went over there for some reason. Nobody that I know of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't even know of any, you know, you could literally take a ferry from A to B to get to the other side, but nobody that I know of ever did it. At the airport in Asmara, sometimes you'd see the Yemeni people, but I don't know anybody who tried. I guess Ethiopia was interesting for us and Kenya would have been interesting. So I think we just didn't know much about Yemen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As your first year came to an end, did you do any looking back, looking forward? You know, well, I'm doing what I hope to do. Or do you recall how it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some, I don't particularly remember any decisions being made. I was getting ready to get that advanced dresser program off the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that during the first year? They said next year you're going to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.248965156937486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't even know of any, you know, you could literally take a ferry from A to B to get to the other side, but nobody that I know of ever did it. At the airport in Asmara, sometimes you'd see the Yemeni people, but I don't know anybody who tried. I guess Ethiopia was interesting for us and Kenya would have been interesting. So I think we just didn't know much about Yemen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As your first year came to an end, did you do any looking back, looking forward? You know, well, I'm doing what I hope to do. Or do you recall how it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some, I don't particularly remember any decisions being made. I was getting ready to get that advanced dresser program off the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that during the first year? They said next year you're going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whose decision was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.721072396597207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some, I don't particularly remember any decisions being made. I was getting ready to get that advanced dresser program off the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew that during the first year? They said next year you're going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whose decision was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Ministry of Health who wanted it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And how were you picked for it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.245635996219119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whose decision was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Ministry of Health who wanted it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And how were you picked for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the degree, a bachelor's degree. So I had quite as much education as anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it different when you went into the advanced dresser program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.717373329132354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Ministry of Health who wanted it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And how were you picked for it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the degree, a bachelor's degree. So I had quite as much education as anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how was it different when you went into the advanced dresser program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was different because I had nothing. I mean, no syllabus. No, they didn't. There weren't very many textbooks, you know, so. So I talked to some of the doctors and got the kids in on some of their physical assessment. So this one doctor taught a physical assessment program for us. But I had to, you know, do the transcribing. And in those days it was on a typewriter. I would usually type up the lesson after he gave it, and then we would send them into the emergency room and they'd learn suturing and triage in the emergency room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now these were people who had completed the basic dresser course?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.589349789052287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was different because I had nothing. I mean, no syllabus. No, they didn't. There weren't very many textbooks, you know, so. So I talked to some of the doctors and got the kids in on some of their physical assessment. So this one doctor taught a physical assessment program for us. But I had to, you know, do the transcribing. And in those days it was on a typewriter. I would usually type up the lesson after he gave it, and then we would send them into the emergency room and they'd learn suturing and triage in the emergency room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now these were people who had completed the basic dresser course?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and they'd been in the field a couple of years so they were coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were an older group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you enjoy that more?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0992775433914295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and they'd been in the field a couple of years so they were coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were an older group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you enjoy that more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, maybe. Maybe. Somewhat more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your living pretty much continued with the three of you living together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.29540437455732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, maybe. Maybe. Somewhat more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your living pretty much continued with the three of you living together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Comfortable circumstance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, one was a home EC teacher and the other was an English teacher, I think. And we had, you know, our group of 13 and we had some satellite villages with some of the volunteers would come in. So we'd see each other on holidays or even weekends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that you were getting enough of exposure to Ethiopian culture or Eritrean culture in what you were doing and the role you were playing? Or was it an issue at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7721041661201475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, one was a home EC teacher and the other was an English teacher, I think. And we had, you know, our group of 13 and we had some satellite villages with some of the volunteers would come in. So we'd see each other on holidays or even weekends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that you were getting enough of exposure to Ethiopian culture or Eritrean culture in what you were doing and the role you were playing? Or was it an issue at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think it was an issue. I was very task oriented, you know, I was there to do the dresser program. That's pretty consuming. You know, I taught in Tennessee a couple of years too and it's very consuming to be a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prepare. I mean, you can't just stand up there unprepared. So, yeah, so that was. And trying to get enough resources to put a program together. I don't know my legacy of what I left. I'm not sure my syllabuses were used subsequent to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ended up developing syllabuses for that, the advanced course?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.635671295689052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think it was an issue. I was very task oriented, you know, I was there to do the dresser program. That's pretty consuming. You know, I taught in Tennessee a couple of years too and it's very consuming to be a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prepare. I mean, you can't just stand up there unprepared. So, yeah, so that was. And trying to get enough resources to put a program together. I don't know my legacy of what I left. I'm not sure my syllabuses were used subsequent to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ended up developing syllabuses for that, the advanced course?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, kind of an outline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you replaced when you left? Was there another PCV that came in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.59519032854339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prepare. I mean, you can't just stand up there unprepared. So, yeah, so that was. And trying to get enough resources to put a program together. I don't know my legacy of what I left. I'm not sure my syllabuses were used subsequent to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ended up developing syllabuses for that, the advanced course?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, kind of an outline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you replaced when you left? Was there another PCV that came in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there wasn't an overlap. I didn't meet her. I didn't meet anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how did it play out as you came to the end?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.661322587270433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, kind of an outline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you replaced when you left? Was there another PCV that came in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there wasn't an overlap. I didn't meet her. I didn't meet anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how did it play out as you came to the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.734802874744926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there wasn't an overlap. I didn't meet her. I didn't meet anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how did it play out as you came to the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the school year was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.816447638605473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the school year was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school year was over so, you know, it's just time to go home. My two years were up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got one group through the advanced dresser course?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.01827515400608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the school year was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school year was over so, you know, it's just time to go home. My two years were up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got one group through the advanced dresser course?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You created a syllabus. But you didn't think in terms of what might happen the next year. That's not an accusation. I mean, whether you'd be replaced or what would happen to your syllabus or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.242527948895644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school year was over so, you know, it's just time to go home. My two years were up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got one group through the advanced dresser course?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You created a syllabus. But you didn't think in terms of what might happen the next year. That's not an accusation. I mean, whether you'd be replaced or what would happen to your syllabus or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, let's see. So that was '70. Yeah, they were still sending people there. Yeah, I think I thought that I would be replaced, but I didn't look into it a lot. I wasn't into the politics of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you also didn't particularly think, well, maybe I'll do a third year so this thing really gets established."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.60280883210627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You created a syllabus. But you didn't think in terms of what might happen the next year. That's not an accusation. I mean, whether you'd be replaced or what would happen to your syllabus or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, let's see. So that was '70. Yeah, they were still sending people there. Yeah, I think I thought that I would be replaced, but I didn't look into it a lot. I wasn't into the politics of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you also didn't particularly think, well, maybe I'll do a third year so this thing really gets established."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I, two years was enough for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a life after Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.559023249513913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I, two years was enough for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a life after Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Three months later, I was in Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Army. Joined the Army again. Well, I got back here very restless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came back to San Diego?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.176692499459904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Three months later, I was in Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Army. Joined the Army again. Well, I got back here very restless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came back to San Diego?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, to this house. And uh, I just couldn't focus on anything very much. So I said, mom and dad, I'm going back in the Army. I'm going to sign up for Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. But it must have been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.97410277717767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I joined the Army. Joined the Army again. Well, I got back here very restless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Came back to San Diego?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, to this house. And uh, I just couldn't focus on anything very much. So I said, mom and dad, I'm going back in the Army. I'm going to sign up for Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. But it must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But my folks, they're like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And for you, I mean, were you in turmoil I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.97122530797519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, to this house. And uh, I just couldn't focus on anything very much. So I said, mom and dad, I'm going back in the Army. I'm going to sign up for Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, interesting. But it must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But my folks, they're like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And for you, I mean, were you in turmoil I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You know, I said, you know, there's still this war going on. I'm a nurse and that's fine. I guess Ethiopia was one thing, but let's go on to the next thing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the common strain is, I mean, is your sense of yourself as a nurse with this competence in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.190250342194652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But my folks, they're like, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And for you, I mean, were you in turmoil I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You know, I said, you know, there's still this war going on. I'm a nurse and that's fine. I guess Ethiopia was one thing, but let's go on to the next thing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the common strain is, I mean, is your sense of yourself as a nurse with this competence in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's clearly great need in lots of settings."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.65583371354961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You know, I said, you know, there's still this war going on. I'm a nurse and that's fine. I guess Ethiopia was one thing, but let's go on to the next thing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the common strain is, I mean, is your sense of yourself as a nurse with this competence in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's clearly great need in lots of settings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was comfortable enough going back into the Army? Was that the point at which you, after Vietnam, you finally decided to stay in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 27.3953707928329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's clearly great need in lots of settings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was comfortable enough going back into the Army? Was that the point at which you, after Vietnam, you finally decided to stay in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I decided to, but they didn't let me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.660951596089998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I decided to, but they didn't let me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I went back to, uh. While I was in Ethiopia, we had a visitor, a very interesting visitor. Her last name was Luce I think. She was related to Clare Boothe Luce somewhere. And this family had endowed Emory in a nursing program, and she told me that there was this program at Emory Hospital and the master’s degree. So through her influence, I applied and got accepted to Emory. So when I finished the Peace Corps. How did that work? Oh yeah, I think that Emory was full that year, the program I wanted, it was rehabilitation nursing. And yeah, I tentatively planned to go right into my master's program, but I didn't get accepted.\n\nSo I said, well, I'll go back in the Army and then come back to that, which I did. When I set two years block of time for the Army, one year in Vietnam and one year at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Fort Knox, Kentucky. Then it was time to get out. They weren't keeping nurses in. They literally said, no, you can't stay beyond your two-year contract in the Army. So then I reapplied to Emory and got in this time. So then I taught. I finished that one year and I taught there. And then I went to Germany to visit a nurse friend of mine, and I ended up staying, working in Germany for the Department of Defense at a high school. I was a high school nurse at Frankfurt for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back and joined the Army again, age of 40, and stayed until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any teaching in your last Army stretch?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.512168440099998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I went back to, uh. While I was in Ethiopia, we had a visitor, a very interesting visitor. Her last name was Luce I think. She was related to Clare Boothe Luce somewhere. And this family had endowed Emory in a nursing program, and she told me that there was this program at Emory Hospital and the master’s degree. So through her influence, I applied and got accepted to Emory. So when I finished the Peace Corps. How did that work? Oh yeah, I think that Emory was full that year, the program I wanted, it was rehabilitation nursing. And yeah, I tentatively planned to go right into my master's program, but I didn't get accepted.\n\nSo I said, well, I'll go back in the Army and then come back to that, which I did. When I set two years block of time for the Army, one year in Vietnam and one year at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Fort Knox, Kentucky. Then it was time to get out. They weren't keeping nurses in. They literally said, no, you can't stay beyond your two-year contract in the Army. So then I reapplied to Emory and got in this time. So then I taught. I finished that one year and I taught there. And then I went to Germany to visit a nurse friend of mine, and I ended up staying, working in Germany for the Department of Defense at a high school. I was a high school nurse at Frankfurt for three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came back and joined the Army again, age of 40, and stayed until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any teaching in your last Army stretch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Formal program teaching? No, because I had done some teaching, but I didn't have a degree in education, nursing education. So I was clinical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any continuing connection, involvement, communication with Ethiopia once you? Or Eritrea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.45946721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Formal program teaching? No, because I had done some teaching, but I didn't have a degree in education, nursing education. So I was clinical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any continuing connection, involvement, communication with Ethiopia once you? Or Eritrea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wrote to Hilee for a while, but when he wanted to come here, I think I was sort of afraid of that. So I. In 1984, somehow I got wind that some Eritreans wanted to come to this country, the International Refugee Committee or World, Church World Relief. I somehow I got wind that Church World Relief that I could sponsor a refugee. So I went down there and sure enough, they had a list. And I said I want to sponsor an Eritrean female to come here. So I did. They first wanted to put a Hmong family in my house of 11, a family of 11. Now I'm still in the Army at this time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So this is when I was stationed at Fitzsimons Army Hospital in Denver. So I did. I was assigned a refugee. Turned out she was a political refugee, couldn't go back to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She was Eritrean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we've kept up with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's pretty much my post experience with Eritreans. There is a community in San Diego and I know they have. For example, there was a 30 year war between Eritrea and Ethiopia, and most astonishing. By the way, there was no older woman in that labor room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw her. And when Astaire looked at me, she thought I was an angel because I was all in white. She told her husband an angel visited me. And anyway, I guess the other nurse that told me about her told her, but um. What was I saying? Before that, my follow up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Continuing involvement. The war."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's pretty much my post experience with Eritreans. There is a community in San Diego and I know they have. For example, there was a 30 year war between Eritrea and Ethiopia, and most astonishing. By the way, there was no older woman in that labor room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw her. And when Astaire looked at me, she thought I was an angel because I was all in white. She told her husband an angel visited me. And anyway, I guess the other nurse that told me about her told her, but um. What was I saying? Before that, my follow up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Continuing involvement. The war."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. The war. The most amazing thing is that little Eritrea, which is a country of three or four million people, won over Ethiopia, a country of, well, when I was there, they said the population's anywhere between 12 and 21 million. Because they're all these little villages, they just couldn't get a hold on the population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious. When you went back into the Army having done the Peace Corps, did you mention that to your peers? I mean, how did people deal with War Corps, Peace Corps kind of thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw her. And when Astaire looked at me, she thought I was an angel because I was all in white. She told her husband an angel visited me. And anyway, I guess the other nurse that told me about her told her, but um. What was I saying? Before that, my follow up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Continuing involvement. The war."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. The war. The most amazing thing is that little Eritrea, which is a country of three or four million people, won over Ethiopia, a country of, well, when I was there, they said the population's anywhere between 12 and 21 million. Because they're all these little villages, they just couldn't get a hold on the population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious. When you went back into the Army having done the Peace Corps, did you mention that to your peers? I mean, how did people deal with War Corps, Peace Corps kind of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't have to deal with as much as I did. You know, I began to see the real futility of war. I became an environmentalist because it's, you know, the, uh, the abusiveness to the environment of the war and the Army is terrible. And so my perspective was really one of, hey, you know, what about conservation? What about negotiation? So I seem to always have a history of being kind of outside the fence of whatever group I'm in. Growing up with the military, our roots weren't in these places. I was the outsider. And then I was the outsider in the Peace Corps because of my war and in the Army, I was the outsider because of my Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering whether people looked at you askance because."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. The war. The most amazing thing is that little Eritrea, which is a country of three or four million people, won over Ethiopia, a country of, well, when I was there, they said the population's anywhere between 12 and 21 million. Because they're all these little villages, they just couldn't get a hold on the population."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious. When you went back into the Army having done the Peace Corps, did you mention that to your peers? I mean, how did people deal with War Corps, Peace Corps kind of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't have to deal with as much as I did. You know, I began to see the real futility of war. I became an environmentalist because it's, you know, the, uh, the abusiveness to the environment of the war and the Army is terrible. And so my perspective was really one of, hey, you know, what about conservation? What about negotiation? So I seem to always have a history of being kind of outside the fence of whatever group I'm in. Growing up with the military, our roots weren't in these places. I was the outsider. And then I was the outsider in the Peace Corps because of my war and in the Army, I was the outsider because of my Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering whether people looked at you askance because."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. And what I say is, is I think the Peace Corps probably influenced my thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was going to ask that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't have to deal with as much as I did. You know, I began to see the real futility of war. I became an environmentalist because it's, you know, the, uh, the abusiveness to the environment of the war and the Army is terrible. And so my perspective was really one of, hey, you know, what about conservation? What about negotiation? So I seem to always have a history of being kind of outside the fence of whatever group I'm in. Growing up with the military, our roots weren't in these places. I was the outsider. And then I was the outsider in the Peace Corps because of my war and in the Army, I was the outsider because of my Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering whether people looked at you askance because."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. And what I say is, is I think the Peace Corps probably influenced my thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was going to ask that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very predominantly. Even in comparison to 20 years in the Army, I think the Peace Corps had a tremendous impact on how I look at things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you brought a lot to the experience and sort of Peace Corps enabled you to express things that, I mean, you had within you. Yeah, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. And what I say is, is I think the Peace Corps probably influenced my thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was going to ask that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very predominantly. Even in comparison to 20 years in the Army, I think the Peace Corps had a tremendous impact on how I look at things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you brought a lot to the experience and sort of Peace Corps enabled you to express things that, I mean, you had within you. Yeah, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, that's exactly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very predominantly. Even in comparison to 20 years in the Army, I think the Peace Corps had a tremendous impact on how I look at things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you brought a lot to the experience and sort of Peace Corps enabled you to express things that, I mean, you had within you. Yeah, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, that's exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave another perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to say for posterity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, that's exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave another perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to say for posterity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Join the Peace Corps. And war no more. This war that we're about to embark on, I think is completely avoidable. I'm absolutely. I think it's another example of misguided American intentions where we don't have to go to the war. We could, if our government would use alternative fuels, reduce consumption, be conservation minded. We wouldn't need to be in this war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But now, I mean, I gather from the life you're leading now that what you did in the Peace Corps, there's lots to do here within the United States. So your involvement with Sierra Club and environmental."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00182:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It gave another perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to say for posterity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Join the Peace Corps. And war no more. This war that we're about to embark on, I think is completely avoidable. I'm absolutely. I think it's another example of misguided American intentions where we don't have to go to the war. We could, if our government would use alternative fuels, reduce consumption, be conservation minded. We wouldn't need to be in this war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But now, I mean, I gather from the life you're leading now that what you did in the Peace Corps, there's lots to do here within the United States. So your involvement with Sierra Club and environmental."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's all related."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all of a piece, yeah. Great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.252595369151578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a bit, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you go to a high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, my parents made a conscious decision, although we did travel when we were very young in our elementary school era. But my mother really wanted us to be stable in our schooling in high school and middle school. So we stayed in Washington state. So my father was based at Fort Lewis in Washington, and my siblings and I were born on McCord Air Force Base. And so we stayed in Washington state for quite some time while my father was deployed in several conflicts in the world. And that's where I went to high school, to Spanaway Lake High School. And it's, Washington is home for me. But I traveled extensively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a total army brat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a total army brat, but definitely in the sense that my family, we were, my family was very supportive of my father being that he was away a lot during my childhood on different deployments all around the world. I was actually, my father was in Korea when I was born. And he also served in Germany, and he did several deployments abroad. And I think that's really what kind of opened my eyes. The first thing that opened my eyes to the world around us is just that, oh, Daddy's where? And my mom would show us on the map. Daddy's here or Daddy's there. So I knew that a wider world existed in my child mind, but I got the chance to explore that world as an adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many siblings do you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.28066152127953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, my parents made a conscious decision, although we did travel when we were very young in our elementary school era. But my mother really wanted us to be stable in our schooling in high school and middle school. So we stayed in Washington state. So my father was based at Fort Lewis in Washington, and my siblings and I were born on McCord Air Force Base. And so we stayed in Washington state for quite some time while my father was deployed in several conflicts in the world. And that's where I went to high school, to Spanaway Lake High School. And it's, Washington is home for me. But I traveled extensively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a total army brat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a total army brat, but definitely in the sense that my family, we were, my family was very supportive of my father being that he was away a lot during my childhood on different deployments all around the world. I was actually, my father was in Korea when I was born. And he also served in Germany, and he did several deployments abroad. And I think that's really what kind of opened my eyes. The first thing that opened my eyes to the world around us is just that, oh, Daddy's where? And my mom would show us on the map. Daddy's here or Daddy's there. So I knew that a wider world existed in my child mind, but I got the chance to explore that world as an adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many siblings do you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are one of four. I am the eldest daughter, but the third child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.867401690310588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a total army brat, but definitely in the sense that my family, we were, my family was very supportive of my father being that he was away a lot during my childhood on different deployments all around the world. I was actually, my father was in Korea when I was born. And he also served in Germany, and he did several deployments abroad. And I think that's really what kind of opened my eyes. The first thing that opened my eyes to the world around us is just that, oh, Daddy's where? And my mom would show us on the map. Daddy's here or Daddy's there. So I knew that a wider world existed in my child mind, but I got the chance to explore that world as an adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many siblings do you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are one of four. I am the eldest daughter, but the third child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to college at the University of Washington. Go dogs! I am a Husky and there I did five years. I had to do a victory lap year. So I graduated in 2008. I started school in 2003 and I studied Spanish and international relations with a Latin American focus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you actually went to the Peace Corps and spoke Spanish. A rare thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.63044632256732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are one of four. I am the eldest daughter, but the third child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to college at the University of Washington. Go dogs! I am a Husky and there I did five years. I had to do a victory lap year. So I graduated in 2008. I started school in 2003 and I studied Spanish and international relations with a Latin American focus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you actually went to the Peace Corps and spoke Spanish. A rare thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very rare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many people say they spoke French or Spanish, and then they were sent far away, somewhere else."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.478273691741464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to college at the University of Washington. Go dogs! I am a Husky and there I did five years. I had to do a victory lap year. So I graduated in 2008. I started school in 2003 and I studied Spanish and international relations with a Latin American focus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And you actually went to the Peace Corps and spoke Spanish. A rare thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very rare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many people say they spoke French or Spanish, and then they were sent far away, somewhere else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually did get the opportunity to speak the language that I studied, although I must say that studying a language in college does not mean you speak it. And I learned that for myself because although I had a degree in Spanish, the conversational Spanish, that piece I did not have. And looking back, I'm very grateful that I learned it the way I did with the theory and the grammar first and then really conversational and colloquial Spanish second because I could kind of code switch. So I could be very proper in Spanish and I could speak with my counterparts in the fields or in the villages with my Spanish that I learned in the communities. So it was the best of both worlds and it definitely helped me in my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduated college in 2008. And then you joined the Peace Corps in 2013. What did you do in between?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.42030410193496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very rare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many people say they spoke French or Spanish, and then they were sent far away, somewhere else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually did get the opportunity to speak the language that I studied, although I must say that studying a language in college does not mean you speak it. And I learned that for myself because although I had a degree in Spanish, the conversational Spanish, that piece I did not have. And looking back, I'm very grateful that I learned it the way I did with the theory and the grammar first and then really conversational and colloquial Spanish second because I could kind of code switch. So I could be very proper in Spanish and I could speak with my counterparts in the fields or in the villages with my Spanish that I learned in the communities. So it was the best of both worlds and it definitely helped me in my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you graduated college in 2008. And then you joined the Peace Corps in 2013. What did you do in between?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my Peace Corps story was a winding road because I decided that I needed a graduate degree before I did anything. I worked for a year after I graduated from college, and then I decided to enter into the Peace Corps Master's International program, which no longer exists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't you say what that is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.800122105259966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very fortunate. Peace Corps saved my life, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're totally free now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I will always have a condition that requires me to be aware of my body, what I put into my body, how I treat my body. So my kidneys are definitely not out of the woods and they never will be. But I can control how much damage happens because now I know about it. So now I'm very, I'm very healthy. I've never not been healthy. But now I'm actively and conscious about the decisions that I make concerning my eating habits, exercising, the environments that I'm in, just to prolong the life of my kidneys for as long as possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that's an unusual application process, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a long, long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they finally decided that your condition was stable enough so that you could join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.555691228066628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I will always have a condition that requires me to be aware of my body, what I put into my body, how I treat my body. So my kidneys are definitely not out of the woods and they never will be. But I can control how much damage happens because now I know about it. So now I'm very, I'm very healthy. I've never not been healthy. But now I'm actively and conscious about the decisions that I make concerning my eating habits, exercising, the environments that I'm in, just to prolong the life of my kidneys for as long as possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that's an unusual application process, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a long, long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they finally decided that your condition was stable enough so that you could join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. They did. But it was so random how it happened. There was no fanfare. There was no official letter. The letter came after the fact. But I just received a phone call in the middle of the day from headquarters from a young woman who asked me, we've received her application and we see that you have been in medical hold for a considerable amount of time. We have a post available in El Salvador. Do you accept? And I had to say yes or no at that moment, otherwise, my application just. It had been on hold for too long. So it was either do it now or not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And presumably you were working."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.284101364518477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a long, long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they finally decided that your condition was stable enough so that you could join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. They did. But it was so random how it happened. There was no fanfare. There was no official letter. The letter came after the fact. But I just received a phone call in the middle of the day from headquarters from a young woman who asked me, we've received her application and we see that you have been in medical hold for a considerable amount of time. We have a post available in El Salvador. Do you accept? And I had to say yes or no at that moment, otherwise, my application just. It had been on hold for too long. So it was either do it now or not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And presumably you were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working, you know, I had my life kind of going in Chicago, and I still had hope for my Peace Corps application. But it was not something that was top of mind in that time, you know, because my degree was still on hold too because I hadn't finished. Yeah, I hadn't finished my thesis. So in that time, they made an exception for me to do a different type of overseas assignment so I could at least get my graduate degree within those that timeframe. Because I was already three years out from when I originally did my coursework at the university. So in that time I went to China, but I got really sick in China and I was deported. So I came back to Chicago to live with my parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were deported?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.410830605968727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My dad was just thrilled. He just said, you go out there, do what you do best, leave it better than you found it. And my mom, of course, mothers. My mom was just, call me every day. Make sure you take your medicine. Don't do anything I wouldn't do. You're going to do great, but just make sure that you're in contact. Now, little did I know that having contact in the Peace Corps, it can mean very, very different things depending on where you serve and how far off the grid you are. And my site was probably one of the furthest off the grid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to that in a minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll get to that. But my parents were very excited for me, very supportive throughout the whole process. And I couldn't be more grateful and thankful for the family that I have, just the family unit, that expectation of service. Not only that, but just the love and the care that they put into developing my siblings and I into adults that contribute to society overall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kudos to them, Rob and Crystal Grigsby. Just awesome individuals and I love them so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. So you packed up your life and where did you meet up with the rest of the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.789811784409693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll get to that. But my parents were very excited for me, very supportive throughout the whole process. And I couldn't be more grateful and thankful for the family that I have, just the family unit, that expectation of service. Not only that, but just the love and the care that they put into developing my siblings and I into adults that contribute to society overall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kudos to them, Rob and Crystal Grigsby. Just awesome individuals and I love them so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. So you packed up your life and where did you meet up with the rest of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I flew in from Chicago. I missed my plane three times because I went to the wrong airport. There are two major airports in Chicago, Midway and O'Hare. For some reason, I don't know why, I went to Midway, which is the smaller of the two airports, instead of O'Hare. And so I missed every single flight. They had to rebook me three times in order to get there. I arrived at staging in Washington, D.C., I think a full five hours late, five or six. So I missed the first whole day almost. And I literally packed everything I had. I just I don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking that Peace Corps was going to be this glamorous just over the top fabulous place. I had, what I was wearing. I was wearing this really great pencil skirt with four-inch heels and a blazer and some type of shimmery sheer blouse and I mean, I was just way overdone. I didn't realize Peace Corps is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that fancy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.230542589694231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, I'm not sure, but I lived in Siete de Marzo, and it was our little training community. Every day we would walk into Nuevo Cuscatlán and we rented out a little house there that we had our sessions and our classes and our Spanish classes as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my group, there was 15 altogether. So pretty small, pretty small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were all in community organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were all in community organization and economic development. Yes. But we lived. We lived together. Not everyone lived in Siete de Marzo, but we all lived very close by and we all walked together, or took the bus when we were feeling lazy, to go to Nuevo Cuscatlán to do our classes. But it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the training? Was it helpful?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.25615843299359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my group, there was 15 altogether. So pretty small, pretty small."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were all in community organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were all in community organization and economic development. Yes. But we lived. We lived together. Not everyone lived in Siete de Marzo, but we all lived very close by and we all walked together, or took the bus when we were feeling lazy, to go to Nuevo Cuscatlán to do our classes. But it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the training? Was it helpful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was definitely helpful. I think there are some things that cannot be taught. You really learn on the job in the Peace Corps. But as far as culture, food, dynamics and the norms in different interactions with people. How to just be on your, be your best and represent not only yourself, but the United States, in the best way possible. A lot of people were concerned with me because not, most people did not think that I was American, as an African American woman. My training, my teachers and the different trainers in Nuevo Cuscatlán, they told me that I would be something that was very curious to people. People would look at me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they haven't seen African Americans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.173509369992878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were all in community organization and economic development. Yes. But we lived. We lived together. Not everyone lived in Siete de Marzo, but we all lived very close by and we all walked together, or took the bus when we were feeling lazy, to go to Nuevo Cuscatlán to do our classes. But it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the training? Was it helpful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was definitely helpful. I think there are some things that cannot be taught. You really learn on the job in the Peace Corps. But as far as culture, food, dynamics and the norms in different interactions with people. How to just be on your, be your best and represent not only yourself, but the United States, in the best way possible. A lot of people were concerned with me because not, most people did not think that I was American, as an African American woman. My training, my teachers and the different trainers in Nuevo Cuscatlán, they told me that I would be something that was very curious to people. People would look at me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they haven't seen African Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There is not a large Afro population at all in El Salvador. I think in the two and a half years I was there, I maybe counted five or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only African American in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.970565966658753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was definitely helpful. I think there are some things that cannot be taught. You really learn on the job in the Peace Corps. But as far as culture, food, dynamics and the norms in different interactions with people. How to just be on your, be your best and represent not only yourself, but the United States, in the best way possible. A lot of people were concerned with me because not, most people did not think that I was American, as an African American woman. My training, my teachers and the different trainers in Nuevo Cuscatlán, they told me that I would be something that was very curious to people. People would look at me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That they haven't seen African Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There is not a large Afro population at all in El Salvador. I think in the two and a half years I was there, I maybe counted five or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only African American in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my group, yes. Yes, I was. Let me just go through my head real quick and make sure. Yes, I was. But going down the street, people would always come up to me. They would want to touch my hair. They would ask me questions about my skin. They would ask me about my nationality. I was always African. The people just did not believe that I was American because Americans don't look like me. Of course. And then they would just be so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were black or because you were tall or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.605636995875003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my group, yes. Yes, I was. Let me just go through my head real quick and make sure. Yes, I was. But going down the street, people would always come up to me. They would want to touch my hair. They would ask me questions about my skin. They would ask me about my nationality. I was always African. The people just did not believe that I was American because Americans don't look like me. Of course. And then they would just be so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were black or because you were tall or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was black, because I am black. And tall. Being tall was just hilarious to them because they, women, tall women is not something that they see at all in El Salvador. People are very short. They're very short and stout. So me being 6'2\" and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And thin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, and thin. A black woman who's single with no children and, oh my goodness, I was just. I might as well have been an alien because I was just everything that they didn't understand. So I actually took that as an opportunity to share my culture and to share just the things that I believed and the things that make me who I am. So it was an opportunity more than anything. And an opportunity to practice my Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's just go back to training a bit. So did you have to go through Spanish training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.561818884305557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was black, because I am black. And tall. Being tall was just hilarious to them because they, women, tall women is not something that they see at all in El Salvador. People are very short. They're very short and stout. So me being 6'2\" and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And thin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, and thin. A black woman who's single with no children and, oh my goodness, I was just. I might as well have been an alien because I was just everything that they didn't understand. So I actually took that as an opportunity to share my culture and to share just the things that I believed and the things that make me who I am. So it was an opportunity more than anything. And an opportunity to practice my Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's just go back to training a bit. So did you have to go through Spanish training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you were a Spanish major?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.624243204783951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, and thin. A black woman who's single with no children and, oh my goodness, I was just. I might as well have been an alien because I was just everything that they didn't understand. So I actually took that as an opportunity to share my culture and to share just the things that I believed and the things that make me who I am. So it was an opportunity more than anything. And an opportunity to practice my Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's just go back to training a bit. So did you have to go through Spanish training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you were a Spanish major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I was so shocked and a little bit disappointed because I did not even place in the top Spanish group as far as conversationally. Not at all. I was in intermediate Spanish and I had. I could not believe it, but I have a degree. I have a degree in this. What do you mean that I am not superior? This makes no sense. What? But no, I was intermediate when I got to El Salvador and I had to go hash it out. I had to learn, you know, the conjugations and the sentence structures and the proper way to greet and the proper way to put together sentences and so many things. My vocabulary wasn't nearly as large as I thought it was, and just so many things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tells you something about language instruction in this country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.582492449759945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you were a Spanish major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I was so shocked and a little bit disappointed because I did not even place in the top Spanish group as far as conversationally. Not at all. I was in intermediate Spanish and I had. I could not believe it, but I have a degree. I have a degree in this. What do you mean that I am not superior? This makes no sense. What? But no, I was intermediate when I got to El Salvador and I had to go hash it out. I had to learn, you know, the conjugations and the sentence structures and the proper way to greet and the proper way to put together sentences and so many things. My vocabulary wasn't nearly as large as I thought it was, and just so many things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tells you something about language instruction in this country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I was shocked. I was shocked. I had been studying Spanish since the ninth grade, probably a little earlier, probably seriously since the sixth grade. But when I got to college and that being my focus, it was all the time. All of my classes were in Spanish, so I knew I knew it. I understand this language but understanding and fluency is a very different thing. Speaking and being able to pick out the structure of a sentence. But the funny thing about it is going through Spanish classes made me understand the parts of speech in English better. So we learned how to speak English just naturally, just through conversation. Our parents, our surroundings, siblings.\n\nBut learning Spanish, since I learned it backwards, I could pick out verbs and adjectives and nouns and gerunds and the conjugations and the different forms. The tu form, the I, the yo form, all of these, the ways that we speak to each other. And that made me understand, woah, structure in English is not quite the same, but now I can understand structure in a different way. So that was very helpful after I got outside of my ego and being so shocked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what was the training like for community organization and economic development?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.910140534650129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the training was broad, I will say. There was so much to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you supposed to be doing in your program? Was that clear to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not for me. But I will say that the staff in El Salvador, they wanted us to go into our sites with an open mind and open hearts more than anything. Don't go in as the American that knows everything. Go in as the American who wants to listen, who wants to learn, and who wants to assist. So that's what I did. The first year as a Peace Corps volunteer I just got to know people. I went to houses and I sat and drank lukewarm instant coffee and these little cookies, sugar cookies. And I would walk. My little village, it was one big circle, so I would walk it and I would hang out with the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned? So you finished training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I finished training, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you want to say about training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.122378371833475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not for me. But I will say that the staff in El Salvador, they wanted us to go into our sites with an open mind and open hearts more than anything. Don't go in as the American that knows everything. Go in as the American who wants to listen, who wants to learn, and who wants to assist. So that's what I did. The first year as a Peace Corps volunteer I just got to know people. I went to houses and I sat and drank lukewarm instant coffee and these little cookies, sugar cookies. And I would walk. My little village, it was one big circle, so I would walk it and I would hang out with the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you assigned? So you finished training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I finished training, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you want to say about training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was helpful after the fact. I did not. I did not immediately see the value in training until I was well into my second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it made sense."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.469309302037194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I finished training, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you want to say about training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was helpful after the fact. I did not. I did not immediately see the value in training until I was well into my second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it made sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then it made sense. And then the aha moments came almost daily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what in retrospect was useful then, the listening part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.96589922448577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was helpful after the fact. I did not. I did not immediately see the value in training until I was well into my second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it made sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then it made sense. And then the aha moments came almost daily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what in retrospect was useful then, the listening part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The listening part and then the timing. There in El Salvador, people are not in a rush. They're not in a rush. They think things will get done in their own time. Things are there in order to bring people together. It's not necessarily about money. It's just all of these little golden nuggets that really kind of wash over American society as a whole. But just to be present and to just wait and to see how things happen. And maybe tweak something and then wait and see again. And then maybe if it needs another little tweak, try again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learned that in training or you learned that afterwards?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.476418795661445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The listening part and then the timing. There in El Salvador, people are not in a rush. They're not in a rush. They think things will get done in their own time. Things are there in order to bring people together. It's not necessarily about money. It's just all of these little golden nuggets that really kind of wash over American society as a whole. But just to be present and to just wait and to see how things happen. And maybe tweak something and then wait and see again. And then maybe if it needs another little tweak, try again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learned that in training or you learned that afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned that that is actually a thing in training. Like this is something that people do? What? I learned that in training and maybe even subliminally, I learned that in training, and then it came full circle as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also my trainers in El Salvador were so attentive to us. They wanted to make sure that we had everything we need to be successful. Because El Salvador was a red country, meaning that we could not travel freely throughout El Salvador. We could not travel, use public transportation, that was not, um, that was restricted. We could not, we couldn't cross department borders. So all, uh, we had a shuttle system. Once a week or twice a week, the shuttle would come to different parts of the country and pick up volunteers and take them across department borders to different areas if we wanted to collaborate with other volunteers or if we needed to come to the city. It just really depends. And then. [dog barks]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse the distraction."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.529354217401604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned that that is actually a thing in training. Like this is something that people do? What? I learned that in training and maybe even subliminally, I learned that in training, and then it came full circle as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also my trainers in El Salvador were so attentive to us. They wanted to make sure that we had everything we need to be successful. Because El Salvador was a red country, meaning that we could not travel freely throughout El Salvador. We could not travel, use public transportation, that was not, um, that was restricted. We could not, we couldn't cross department borders. So all, uh, we had a shuttle system. Once a week or twice a week, the shuttle would come to different parts of the country and pick up volunteers and take them across department borders to different areas if we wanted to collaborate with other volunteers or if we needed to come to the city. It just really depends. And then. [dog barks]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excuse the distraction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So why couldn't you travel? What was going on in El Salvador at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.542412614076053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So why couldn't you travel? What was going on in El Salvador at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is a lot of socio-political strife going on. There was a lot of gang violence, MS-13 and the Mara Salvatrucha are prominent gangs. And priority number one is keeping the volunteer safe and in environments that they can be successful, healthy, and feel like they're safe. So even the capital in San Salvador where our headquarters is, our home office, it was off limits. We can only come to the capital for medical appointments, for emergencies, or if we were leaving the country, going to the airport, or coming back into the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than that, we were not allowed to come to San Salvador. Before my time in El Salvador, the country had been evacuated so that the program was shut down for a number of years. I'm not sure how many. But we were one of, I think we were the second group that got to come in when they reopened the country in early 2000, I want to say 2000. You know, I don't even know the date, but it was two thousand and something when they reopened the country for another group of volunteers to come in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you stationed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.15823623786228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is a lot of socio-political strife going on. There was a lot of gang violence, MS-13 and the Mara Salvatrucha are prominent gangs. And priority number one is keeping the volunteer safe and in environments that they can be successful, healthy, and feel like they're safe. So even the capital in San Salvador where our headquarters is, our home office, it was off limits. We can only come to the capital for medical appointments, for emergencies, or if we were leaving the country, going to the airport, or coming back into the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than that, we were not allowed to come to San Salvador. Before my time in El Salvador, the country had been evacuated so that the program was shut down for a number of years. I'm not sure how many. But we were one of, I think we were the second group that got to come in when they reopened the country in early 2000, I want to say 2000. You know, I don't even know the date, but it was two thousand and something when they reopened the country for another group of volunteers to come in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you stationed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was stationed in the Department of Morazán and it was right on the border of Honduras. In fact, my village was a 10 minute walk from the border. There was a river that separated us, the river San Antonio. And it was a river that my kids in the community loved to play in on hot days, which was every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that a safe area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.953595819846978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than that, we were not allowed to come to San Salvador. Before my time in El Salvador, the country had been evacuated so that the program was shut down for a number of years. I'm not sure how many. But we were one of, I think we were the second group that got to come in when they reopened the country in early 2000, I want to say 2000. You know, I don't even know the date, but it was two thousand and something when they reopened the country for another group of volunteers to come in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you stationed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was stationed in the Department of Morazán and it was right on the border of Honduras. In fact, my village was a 10 minute walk from the border. There was a river that separated us, the river San Antonio. And it was a river that my kids in the community loved to play in on hot days, which was every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that a safe area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, absolutely. Because my village was so small. There was 250 people, men, women and children all living together in provisional housing that they've made out of mud bricks and hay and straw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were no gangs there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.948439799829973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was stationed in the Department of Morazán and it was right on the border of Honduras. In fact, my village was a 10 minute walk from the border. There was a river that separated us, the river San Antonio. And it was a river that my kids in the community loved to play in on hot days, which was every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that a safe area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, absolutely. Because my village was so small. There was 250 people, men, women and children all living together in provisional housing that they've made out of mud bricks and hay and straw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were no gangs there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no. And if there were little outcroppings of gangs, the children who were trying to to be of that mindset, the community leaders would stamp it out immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the gangs were mostly in the city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.164933110922192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me, absolutely. Because my village was so small. There was 250 people, men, women and children all living together in provisional housing that they've made out of mud bricks and hay and straw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were no gangs there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no. And if there were little outcroppings of gangs, the children who were trying to to be of that mindset, the community leaders would stamp it out immediately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the gangs were mostly in the city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, mostly in the cities. So that's why the majority of our cohort were placed in rural areas. Very, very few of us were in cities or in large metropolitan areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to the, how did you get to your town when you were placed there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.08016433447184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, mostly in the cities. So that's why the majority of our cohort were placed in rural areas. Very, very few of us were in cities or in large metropolitan areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to the, how did you get to your town when you were placed there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was placed there, I was picked up by my community contact Glenda Argueta and the local alcalde, which is the mayor. They picked me up in the pickup truck of the nearest town and they drove me the eight hours. Felt like eight hours. I could probably get there in six, but I think that day we took a few stops because they wanted me to see the area and know about El Salvador. Salvadorans have so much pride for their country and they love their patria. So we stopped and we toured a little bit in the country before we got to my site. And they dropped me off at the bottom of this dusty road. It's not even a road. It was a path full of rocks and dirt, and it was lined with trees and stray dogs just everywhere. And they said, OK, well, this is it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was it. That was the last time I rode in a car for many, many months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were alone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.644627038302042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was placed there, I was picked up by my community contact Glenda Argueta and the local alcalde, which is the mayor. They picked me up in the pickup truck of the nearest town and they drove me the eight hours. Felt like eight hours. I could probably get there in six, but I think that day we took a few stops because they wanted me to see the area and know about El Salvador. Salvadorans have so much pride for their country and they love their patria. So we stopped and we toured a little bit in the country before we got to my site. And they dropped me off at the bottom of this dusty road. It's not even a road. It was a path full of rocks and dirt, and it was lined with trees and stray dogs just everywhere. And they said, OK, well, this is it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was it. That was the last time I rode in a car for many, many months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was alone. Yes. I did not have another volunteer in my site. I think the closest volunteer to me was at least an hour and a half, two hours away on bus, although the distance may not have been so long. The route and the timing was much longer because it was winding roads that went up and down mountainsides. None of the roads were paved at all. There was either dirt roads or roads made of stones kind of thrown together in a semi-organized manner. And the transportation. Once I hiked out of my site, which took about, when I got good at it, it took about 45 minutes. But when I started, it was at least an hour and 15 minutes, hour and a half, hiking straight up a hill to get out of my site into our neighboring town of Joateca. And that's where the busses would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the neighboring town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.271807820335603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was it. That was the last time I rode in a car for many, many months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were alone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was alone. Yes. I did not have another volunteer in my site. I think the closest volunteer to me was at least an hour and a half, two hours away on bus, although the distance may not have been so long. The route and the timing was much longer because it was winding roads that went up and down mountainsides. None of the roads were paved at all. There was either dirt roads or roads made of stones kind of thrown together in a semi-organized manner. And the transportation. Once I hiked out of my site, which took about, when I got good at it, it took about 45 minutes. But when I started, it was at least an hour and 15 minutes, hour and a half, hiking straight up a hill to get out of my site into our neighboring town of Joateca. And that's where the busses would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the neighboring town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm, in the neighboring town, the busses to anywhere outside of our community. And these busses were the same busses that I'm sure I rode when I was in elementary school. You know, the big yellow Blue Bell busses, but these are pimped out busses. They had all kinds of intricate designs and bright colors and bells and fringes and those big horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But basically school busses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.635342022595117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was alone. Yes. I did not have another volunteer in my site. I think the closest volunteer to me was at least an hour and a half, two hours away on bus, although the distance may not have been so long. The route and the timing was much longer because it was winding roads that went up and down mountainsides. None of the roads were paved at all. There was either dirt roads or roads made of stones kind of thrown together in a semi-organized manner. And the transportation. Once I hiked out of my site, which took about, when I got good at it, it took about 45 minutes. But when I started, it was at least an hour and 15 minutes, hour and a half, hiking straight up a hill to get out of my site into our neighboring town of Joateca. And that's where the busses would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the neighboring town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm, in the neighboring town, the busses to anywhere outside of our community. And these busses were the same busses that I'm sure I rode when I was in elementary school. You know, the big yellow Blue Bell busses, but these are pimped out busses. They had all kinds of intricate designs and bright colors and bells and fringes and those big horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But basically school busses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were absolutely school busses. Absolutely. Sometimes they would have the back exit door just open so men could hang halfway out the bus. And I don't know, I thought, I guess it was something cool to do, if you hang out the bus. Everybody would fight for that back seat so you can kind of dangle your legs from the exit door. But of course, that was prohibited for us. But every then the busses only left three times a day and it was at 4:30 a.m., 5:00 a.m., and 5:45 a.m. If you missed those busses, you were stuck. So I remember many days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why so early, to get into the big city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.59482446955013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm, in the neighboring town, the busses to anywhere outside of our community. And these busses were the same busses that I'm sure I rode when I was in elementary school. You know, the big yellow Blue Bell busses, but these are pimped out busses. They had all kinds of intricate designs and bright colors and bells and fringes and those big horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But basically school busses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were absolutely school busses. Absolutely. Sometimes they would have the back exit door just open so men could hang halfway out the bus. And I don't know, I thought, I guess it was something cool to do, if you hang out the bus. Everybody would fight for that back seat so you can kind of dangle your legs from the exit door. But of course, that was prohibited for us. But every then the busses only left three times a day and it was at 4:30 a.m., 5:00 a.m., and 5:45 a.m. If you missed those busses, you were stuck. So I remember many days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why so early, to get into the big city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it took so long to get from Joateca, which is the largest neighboring town, to Gotera, which is where most people did all of their shopping. That was a three, three and a half hour ride. And you know, if you leave at 5:00 in the morning, then you'll get there by 8:00. And most people start opening up shops and doing all of their, you know, their shopping and their just goings-about at that hour in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you could get back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.4386938550557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were absolutely school busses. Absolutely. Sometimes they would have the back exit door just open so men could hang halfway out the bus. And I don't know, I thought, I guess it was something cool to do, if you hang out the bus. Everybody would fight for that back seat so you can kind of dangle your legs from the exit door. But of course, that was prohibited for us. But every then the busses only left three times a day and it was at 4:30 a.m., 5:00 a.m., and 5:45 a.m. If you missed those busses, you were stuck. So I remember many days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why so early, to get into the big city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it took so long to get from Joateca, which is the largest neighboring town, to Gotera, which is where most people did all of their shopping. That was a three, three and a half hour ride. And you know, if you leave at 5:00 in the morning, then you'll get there by 8:00. And most people start opening up shops and doing all of their, you know, their shopping and their just goings-about at that hour in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you could get back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you could get back. There is a midday bus that went back. And so usually everybody would be on the midday bus coming back. But that was it. If you missed those three busses, you had to wait till the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you live in this town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.154104283395222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it took so long to get from Joateca, which is the largest neighboring town, to Gotera, which is where most people did all of their shopping. That was a three, three and a half hour ride. And you know, if you leave at 5:00 in the morning, then you'll get there by 8:00. And most people start opening up shops and doing all of their, you know, their shopping and their just goings-about at that hour in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you could get back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you could get back. There is a midday bus that went back. And so usually everybody would be on the midday bus coming back. But that was it. If you missed those three busses, you had to wait till the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you live in this town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived in a little village called Estanzuela. Estanzuela was a suburb, and I use that term very loosely, of Joateca. It is a tiny town. All the houses are made of adobe, homemade adobe, and sink roofs. It is a very poor area. Most of the town really survived on agriculture. The cash crops were beans, coffee, and corn, and most of the men were farmers. They farmed land that they owned and had been passed down throughout the family or land that they rented from larger landowners. A lot of the children, and I should say adult children, had gone to the United States and a lot of families lived off of remesas that were sent back. So money sent back from family members that are working in the United States. So it was, you know, a very economically impoverished area, but people were so happy, so incredibly happy. And of course, there was me. I felt like the first at least six months I just struggled just to get the swing of life down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you lived by, did you live by yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.441844010144337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. I lived with a host family. My mother's name was Sybilla, and Sybilla and I had a great relationship, but she wasn't an overbearing host mother at all. She kind of let me do what I needed to do, and if I ever needed anything, she was always there, willing and able to help. And the funniest thing about it was when I first arrived at my house, everybody just kind of looked at me and they said, well, you know, we were really hoping to get an American. I mean, you're cool. We'll keep you too. But when our American gets here, we're going to have to give them the house that we set aside for them. But you can stay here for now. And that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were African."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I was African to everybody. So I had to go through this process of proving myself that, no, I'm actually the volunteer that you solicited. It's me and there's no one else coming, just me. But they were like, no, I mean, you can stay, but just know when the real volunteer gets here, we'll have to move you to another place. They were very gentle in telling me this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, do you think they were? Were they discriminating against you? Or just that you were strange?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that they were utterly confused, just like, what? I thought we were getting an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in El Salvador, they don't have racial differences?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.379826677938151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I was African to everybody. So I had to go through this process of proving myself that, no, I'm actually the volunteer that you solicited. It's me and there's no one else coming, just me. But they were like, no, I mean, you can stay, but just know when the real volunteer gets here, we'll have to move you to another place. They were very gentle in telling me this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wait, do you think they were? Were they discriminating against you? Or just that you were strange?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that they were utterly confused, just like, what? I thought we were getting an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in El Salvador, they don't have racial differences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There definitely are. There is, in my mind, there's a lot of discrimination against people of indigenous heritage. So the darker you are, they say indios. You look like an indio because you have a darker complexion, and those are indigenous people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they are discriminated against?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.422029642153502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that they were utterly confused, just like, what? I thought we were getting an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in El Salvador, they don't have racial differences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There definitely are. There is, in my mind, there's a lot of discrimination against people of indigenous heritage. So the darker you are, they say indios. You look like an indio because you have a darker complexion, and those are indigenous people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they are discriminated against?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it must have been a relief for once."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.866703261917904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it must have been a relief for once."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just very interesting because there were so many things going on, just the juxtaposition of me being black and American, but not quite American enough. And because I was dark-skinned, but I think just me being an American superseded everything. As the American, it doesn't really matter that you're black. OK, we'll take that, and we'll just ask you a lot of questions to see if you're actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "American."}, {"role": "user", "content": "American. You're a woman and you're single? That's, well, that's OK. We will take it, whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what's wrong with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.111269050987996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that took the entire two years of service to get to the point where people would just even talk to each other about these very intimate, very deep-rooted feelings that they've carried with them for their lifetimes. And I will say that it was just, it's a family unit. There was only three last names in my whole village. And so they were Blanco, Pereira, and Argueta, were the three last names that everyone had. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you can't really escape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you can't. Because it's so entrenched. It's everybody knows everybody and everyone is related to everyone. So, yeah, you know exactly who you're talking about when you're telling the story of what happened to you as a child, or when you were just married off to such-and-such a person, how this individual treated you. All of these things. They're each other's family members. So it was a difficult process, but necessary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there repercussions when somebody says something? Does it get back to the man?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure it does. I'm sure it does. But by the end of the service, the women were strong enough as a unit to not allow any one woman to be singled out. So there it was definitely power in numbers. And I hope that it continued even after I left. But I cannot say for sure that it is still a strong unit, the strong unit that we built together in those two years. I hope so. I honestly and truly hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do? So you just got to meet them. And how did you end up pulling this group together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.48304821109629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure it does. I'm sure it does. But by the end of the service, the women were strong enough as a unit to not allow any one woman to be singled out. So there it was definitely power in numbers. And I hope that it continued even after I left. But I cannot say for sure that it is still a strong unit, the strong unit that we built together in those two years. I hope so. I honestly and truly hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do? So you just got to meet them. And how did you end up pulling this group together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My projects came organically. I knew of my focus. I know what I wanted my focus to be, but I did not have a map to how to make that happen. It took, like I said before, it took a year of just sitting with people and talking with people and drinking lots of lukewarm coffee and instant. I forget the name of the coffee we used to drink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nescafe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was Nescafe! Yes, it was. It was Nescafe. It was terrible. But we drank it every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is strange for a country that grows coffee."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.758942456773656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My projects came organically. I knew of my focus. I know what I wanted my focus to be, but I did not have a map to how to make that happen. It took, like I said before, it took a year of just sitting with people and talking with people and drinking lots of lukewarm coffee and instant. I forget the name of the coffee we used to drink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nescafe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was Nescafe! Yes, it was. It was Nescafe. It was terrible. But we drank it every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is strange for a country that grows coffee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Their coffee is exported. And when they can get a significant financial gain from the products that they grow, of course, they're going to send their best overseas for export and just they'll take what's the sloppy seconds. So we had Nescafe. So we did that and it was a year of being patient, which is not my strong suit. It was a year of being quiet, which is also hard for me. To listen and just accept that reality in that moment, this is what's happening. I saw it all around me. What do I need to do to change it? But of course, as a person who I am in our society, we see a problem. We have to fix it immediately. Fix, go, put. What can I do to make this right? Do it. But in El Salvador, you cannot rush because it will fall apart. And you have to act appropriately within the culture. So just the fact that I am a woman myself and I don't fit into their description of womanhood, I had to walk very carefully. It is a very fine line on how to address this issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your host mom say to all of us?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.954380507526285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was Nescafe! Yes, it was. It was Nescafe. It was terrible. But we drank it every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is strange for a country that grows coffee."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Their coffee is exported. And when they can get a significant financial gain from the products that they grow, of course, they're going to send their best overseas for export and just they'll take what's the sloppy seconds. So we had Nescafe. So we did that and it was a year of being patient, which is not my strong suit. It was a year of being quiet, which is also hard for me. To listen and just accept that reality in that moment, this is what's happening. I saw it all around me. What do I need to do to change it? But of course, as a person who I am in our society, we see a problem. We have to fix it immediately. Fix, go, put. What can I do to make this right? Do it. But in El Salvador, you cannot rush because it will fall apart. And you have to act appropriately within the culture. So just the fact that I am a woman myself and I don't fit into their description of womanhood, I had to walk very carefully. It is a very fine line on how to address this issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your host mom say to all of us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, my host mom, she was not really involved in my project. She was older. She's well into her 80s and she stayed at the house. Her job was making sure her house was spotless, and she did a phenomenal job doing that. I know no one else, actually probably everyone else got up every morning before the sun came out to sweep a dirt floor. I did not understand why people swept dirt floors until the end, and it was all about presentation. I am making what I have, which is not much, the best that I can make it, so I will sweep this dirt floor until it looks like it's not even dirt. And she did that. She washed dishes. She prepared meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had running water in the house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.718744898354254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's what I had. I had beans and rice every single day. I ate a lot of eggs. They make this cheese called cuajada, and it can be very salty. But I learned to love it. And then, of course, you can never get your fill of tortillas. And that was one of the running jokes in my service is, how many tortillas can Asiha eat? And everyone was just so shocked that I could only finish one, maybe one and a half, because they were just so thick. In El Salvador, they're about the size of a small bowl around, and they're just thick. Maybe half an inch thick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different from the tortillas that I had in my mind, which can fold to make tacos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. It's more, it's used like a utensil. Rather than using forks and spoons, people just eat with a tortilla. They use their two, their pointer finger and their index finger and then their thumb. And they get your tortilla and you get a bit of beans and rice and you scoop it up with your tortilla and you just eat the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you travel around the country as well or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.909716553726948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different from the tortillas that I had in my mind, which can fold to make tacos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. It's more, it's used like a utensil. Rather than using forks and spoons, people just eat with a tortilla. They use their two, their pointer finger and their index finger and then their thumb. And they get your tortilla and you get a bit of beans and rice and you scoop it up with your tortilla and you just eat the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you travel around the country as well or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't. Because of the restrictions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.899685059696608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. It's more, it's used like a utensil. Rather than using forks and spoons, people just eat with a tortilla. They use their two, their pointer finger and their index finger and then their thumb. And they get your tortilla and you get a bit of beans and rice and you scoop it up with your tortilla and you just eat the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you travel around the country as well or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't. Because of the restrictions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of the restrictions, I didn't travel much around the country, but I took it upon myself to be a part of the VAC, which is the Volunteer Advisory Committee. It's like ASB for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.110722295921738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of the restrictions, I didn't travel much around the country, but I took it upon myself to be a part of the VAC, which is the Volunteer Advisory Committee. It's like ASB for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "ASB, you know, if you go back to middle school and high school, it was your student advisory board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was the same thing, but for volunteers. So once a month, every six weeks, something like that, we chose a different place to go around the country to have our VAC meetings. So all the volunteers. There is one from each cohort and, or two, two from each cohort, that were the representatives for their cohorts. And we went to different places all around El Salvador. That was the only way I traveled, with VAC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did get quite a bit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.482373204841652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was the same thing, but for volunteers. So once a month, every six weeks, something like that, we chose a different place to go around the country to have our VAC meetings. So all the volunteers. There is one from each cohort and, or two, two from each cohort, that were the representatives for their cohorts. And we went to different places all around El Salvador. That was the only way I traveled, with VAC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did get quite a bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. But as far as getting to know the area, I would say no. We would go and we'd stay overnight in a hotel, which was always the thrill of VAC meetings. We got showers with running water and a bed with sheets and so many creature comforts that we did not have in our sites. So it would honestly be just an escape, rest and relaxation one night in the hotel room. Oh my goodness, we got to do it on VAC, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was. That's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.869303560935169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. But as far as getting to know the area, I would say no. We would go and we'd stay overnight in a hotel, which was always the thrill of VAC meetings. We got showers with running water and a bed with sheets and so many creature comforts that we did not have in our sites. So it would honestly be just an escape, rest and relaxation one night in the hotel room. Oh my goodness, we got to do it on VAC, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was. That's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did that for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how did you end up re-upping in Panama?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.299226178816854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was. That's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did that for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how did you end up re-upping in Panama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Panama. So I had a four month gap between my service in El Salvador to my service in Panama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many people stay a third year, but you chose not to stay a third year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.431143430638091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Panama. So I had a four month gap between my service in El Salvador to my service in Panama."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many people stay a third year, but you chose not to stay a third year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I chose not to stay a third year, even though I wanted to, because they shut down El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I COSed in September of 2015, I -- so closed my service is COS -- I flew back home to Chicago. And in January they had shut down El Salvador as a Peace Corps country because of problems in security, just because of the violence of the threat of gangs and the government deemed that it was not a safe place to have a Peace Corps program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you couldn't stay at the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.145714922931212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I chose not to stay a third year, even though I wanted to, because they shut down El Salvador."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I COSed in September of 2015, I -- so closed my service is COS -- I flew back home to Chicago. And in January they had shut down El Salvador as a Peace Corps country because of problems in security, just because of the violence of the threat of gangs and the government deemed that it was not a safe place to have a Peace Corps program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you couldn't stay at the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I could not. The program was officially closed at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you finished your second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.939683247701346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I COSed in September of 2015, I -- so closed my service is COS -- I flew back home to Chicago. And in January they had shut down El Salvador as a Peace Corps country because of problems in security, just because of the violence of the threat of gangs and the government deemed that it was not a safe place to have a Peace Corps program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you couldn't stay at the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I could not. The program was officially closed at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you finished your second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my group was the last group to actually COS. So all of the people in my cohort closed their service having done the full two years. The group that came after me did not. And I think there's actually two groups that had come in after me, and they did not. They were all taken out of the country and given options for different assignments in other countries, or to just close their service as a shortened service. So I was very happy for that, but very sad that the program in El Salvador was closed at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went home and then went to Panama."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.377425830779275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I could not. The program was officially closed at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you finished your second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my group was the last group to actually COS. So all of the people in my cohort closed their service having done the full two years. The group that came after me did not. And I think there's actually two groups that had come in after me, and they did not. They were all taken out of the country and given options for different assignments in other countries, or to just close their service as a shortened service. So I was very happy for that, but very sad that the program in El Salvador was closed at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went home and then went to Panama."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went home in September and it was just so cold and dark and I was used to tropical weather. I was used to, you know, fruit on the trees and sun blazing down on you and just being extraordinarily hot. And then I come to Chicago in the late fall and when winter hit, I just said, I can't. I've had, I cannot do it. I've had enough. I'm going back to what I know. So I decided to take a position as a Response volunteer in Panama. So I did Panama, Peace Corps Response in Chiriquí, Panama, which is the northern border of Panama, right with Costa Rica. I worked as a small business consultant for an organic farming cooperative that specialized in mostly leafy greens, but also they grew carrots and all types of citrus fruits. They specialized in kale though, different varieties of kale. I always had fresh fruit and vegetables every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was a, I'm sorry this was a co-op that you worked with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.271187061087144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked with them for 14 months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. So Response, I always thought Response was a very short period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It depends on the assignment how long your actual project will be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it can be anywhere from three months to a year or beyond. My assignment originally started off as a year, and I extended it for a couple of months longer to meet the goals that we set for ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by that time, you were speaking Spanish well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.96798562343016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It depends on the assignment how long your actual project will be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it can be anywhere from three months to a year or beyond. My assignment originally started off as a year, and I extended it for a couple of months longer to meet the goals that we set for ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by that time, you were speaking Spanish well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, by that time I was excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you live then? Did you live in a city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.408872914922402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it can be anywhere from three months to a year or beyond. My assignment originally started off as a year, and I extended it for a couple of months longer to meet the goals that we set for ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by that time, you were speaking Spanish well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, by that time I was excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you live then? Did you live in a city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived. I wouldn't call it a city, but it was definitely a large town. The town of Volcán inside of Chiriquí is actually a expat destination, an up and coming expat destination. I had a lot of American retirees who lived nearby and had these super giant homes. We had paved roads. We had actual grocery stores. We had a Super Selectos, I believe, was out there and was it Super Selectos? I don't remember the name, but we actually had a grocery store there. We had restaurants. There in Volcán was Volcán Barú, and that volcano is a hiker destination in Panama. People love to hike the trail, to get to the crater up there.\n\nSo it was a tourist destination and very different, very different from El Salvador. I think if I had done it in reverse, going from Panama to El Salvador, I would not have made it. But the fact that I started in the most rural, most off the grid, no toilet, no running water, no nothing, no windows, the animals all over me, insects, dengue. And then I went to Panama. It was just, wow, this is the life. I can actually take a bus to wherever I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was no violence."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.009858794358223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, by that time I was excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you live then? Did you live in a city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived. I wouldn't call it a city, but it was definitely a large town. The town of Volcán inside of Chiriquí is actually a expat destination, an up and coming expat destination. I had a lot of American retirees who lived nearby and had these super giant homes. We had paved roads. We had actual grocery stores. We had a Super Selectos, I believe, was out there and was it Super Selectos? I don't remember the name, but we actually had a grocery store there. We had restaurants. There in Volcán was Volcán Barú, and that volcano is a hiker destination in Panama. People love to hike the trail, to get to the crater up there.\n\nSo it was a tourist destination and very different, very different from El Salvador. I think if I had done it in reverse, going from Panama to El Salvador, I would not have made it. But the fact that I started in the most rural, most off the grid, no toilet, no running water, no nothing, no windows, the animals all over me, insects, dengue. And then I went to Panama. It was just, wow, this is the life. I can actually take a bus to wherever I want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was no violence."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never experienced violence. I never had any fears. It was very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people think you were strange being African American in Panama?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.611603284442005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think in that area, since it was such a high tourist destination, there has been many different faces and nationalities coming through there. So they were used to people from around the globe and they were used to foreigners. So, no, I wasn't as much of a shock. I still think that people were really like, wow, you're so tall, why are you so tall? But other than that, it was fine. It was fine. Occasionally, I would get people who would ask me, where are you from? And why do you speak Spanish so well? And a lot of people would think that I was from Colón. And Colón is in the canal zone and it is an Afro Caribbean, Afro Panamanian people down there. It's a region. Basically black people that are there. So a lot of people would think that I was from Colón in Panama. Then I tell them, no, I'm American. And then they would say, oh OK, then that would be that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for a year. And then you came home or did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did travel. I backpacked through Central America once I completed my service in Panama. I started off in Panama and went all the way up to Mexico. It was quite a trip. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, by myself. I was so excited. That was what I wanted. I wanted to be in the world traveling with just the things on my back and the open road in front of me going on this epic adventure. Asiha against the world. Let's go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask whatever happened to all the clothes you brought?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.124003649380002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did travel. I backpacked through Central America once I completed my service in Panama. I started off in Panama and went all the way up to Mexico. It was quite a trip. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, by myself. I was so excited. That was what I wanted. I wanted to be in the world traveling with just the things on my back and the open road in front of me going on this epic adventure. Asiha against the world. Let's go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I forgot to ask whatever happened to all the clothes you brought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I left them in my site. I couldn't. I went home from El Salvador twice. Once to graduate. I finally got my master's degree. I wrote my thesis on the patio of my host mother's home with a power cord slammed into the only outlet that we had. And I flew home in May of 2015 to walk at Rutgers for my graduation. I wanted that, that I felt like that was just coming full circle for me. So I walked across the stage then. And then I came home once again after a serious illness that I had in El Salvador. And I'm so thankful that they did not medical separate me from my service because I had dengue and I was hospitalized for about three weeks. But I was able to go home and just get some love and nourishment from my mom. I think that's all I needed. And put her fears at rest. And then I went back and finished my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then after Panama, you went hiking through Central America?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00061:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. I went back to visit El Salvador last summer and I stayed with everyone in the community because when you go, you cannot just go and see a couple of people. You have to stop by everyone's house. You have to have coffee with every person, ask about their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's still lukewarm, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's still lukewarm. It's still really, really gross. But I drink it with a smile and with a warm heart because I get to share these moments with people who love me unconditionally. They just love me, and they honestly, they got a little jealous. They would get very, very like protectionists. I went to do a project in another site, collaborating with another volunteer who was close, quote unquote close by. And my community felt like I had just abandoned them because I went for a week to another community to do a project. And they just said, Asiha, are you leaving? What is this? Do you? Are you? Is there something we did? Are they taking you away from us? And I said, calm down, it's OK. So in a way, I was theirs. I was something that belonged to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they weren't any volunteers before you or after so you were the one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the one. I was their volunteer. So going back is always a pleasure. I want to go at least every year or every other year. And cell phones are huge down there, so it's easy to Facetime them or everyone uses WhatsApp, so just sending little text messages and getting that connection is very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you stayed connected to the Peace Corps here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00161:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 62.44694587850934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say it now before I go into Shuttle, if you’ve got some more Apollo questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. You had mentioned a few minutes ago the simulator for the LLTV [lunar landing training vehicle]. Was the LLTV something that was under your department?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The LLTV was developed by the—who was it that headed up that one? I don’t know who headed that up. It was handled mainly out of the group that took care of the airplanes down at Ellington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aircraft Operations"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We just had to build a simulator for the simulator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had spoken earlier about the Gemini computer, but the Apollo guidance computer is much more complicated."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00161:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 69.38549542056593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The LLTV was developed by the—who was it that headed up that one? I don’t know who headed that up. It was handled mainly out of the group that took care of the airplanes down at Ellington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aircraft Operations"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We just had to build a simulator for the simulator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had spoken earlier about the Gemini computer, but the Apollo guidance computer is much more complicated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know how many computers there were in that package, but there was many more than one. We kicked around many techniques on how to simulate the Apollo guidance computer, emulation, or so forth and so on, and our final decision was to actually get flight computers and use them. We didn’t have to worry about programming them, because they programmed them for the spacecraft, and we could just stick those programs in. Cost-wise, it was expensive, but it eased our problem quite a bit. Or did I—am I out of whack here? Wait a minute. I know in Shuttle we used flight computers. I’m not sure what we used in Apollo now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s something called an interpreter."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00161:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 75.9838838006288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We just had to build a simulator for the simulator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had spoken earlier about the Gemini computer, but the Apollo guidance computer is much more complicated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t know how many computers there were in that package, but there was many more than one. We kicked around many techniques on how to simulate the Apollo guidance computer, emulation, or so forth and so on, and our final decision was to actually get flight computers and use them. We didn’t have to worry about programming them, because they programmed them for the spacecraft, and we could just stick those programs in. Cost-wise, it was expensive, but it eased our problem quite a bit. Or did I—am I out of whack here? Wait a minute. I know in Shuttle we used flight computers. I’m not sure what we used in Apollo now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s something called an interpreter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, an interpreter, which took the instruction set that were written in one language and converted them into an instruction set that would work in the DDP-24s that we were using to animate the simulator.\\n\\n But you’ve asked a question. I’m going to back off on my answer. I’m not sure. I know in Shuttle—as I say, in fact, in Shuttle they have five computers in the simulator, just like they have five computers in the spacecraft, and care and feeding of those is not simple. But I’ll back off. I’ve forgotten exactly what we did. I know we weren’t happy with what we did in Gemini because the lead time was bad. So we did something different, but I can’t remember exactly what it was. Have to get one of my other experts. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all right. We can find that out, I’m sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00161:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 28.70829041477388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I’m sure they’ve come up with a more rigid system on documentation these days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully. But, again, if it’s fix today’s problem or documenting yesterday’s solution, fix today’s problem takes priority. I’m sure of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it makes good sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s just they don’t have as many today problems. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point, either as early on as the NACA or later, did you have any interaction with the wider human factors community, or industrial psychologists, anything like that, in how to simulate things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00161:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 35.74444245073597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t know Don before I met him in class. He was just one of my classmates. In fact, I didn’t even know he took the job here at Langley until I showed up at Langley and he was there, because Don did not live on campus, and so it wasn’t very much social contact. You saw him during a couple of hours a day in the classroom, and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, he’s certainly quite a character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was, but a good engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, he’s certainly one with, I think, very strong instincts about engineering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, then we’ll move on to a couple of questions about the Gemini Program. The first flight was Gus Grissom and John Young. How prepared were the simulators for that first mission at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00161:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, I hope I’ve done what you wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Having read several of these things way back several years ago, [Maxime A.] Faget and [Paul E.] Purser and [Joseph G. “Guy”] Thibodaux did some of these things, and they were much more politic-oriented at it. This was before there was such a thing as a Manned Spacecraft Center. These guys were working on the Mercury, what became the Mercury Program, for about a year before it actually formalized. They were more question-and-answer-type things, triggering thoughts from those guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’ve had occasion to read those interviews, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned things reading those, and I was there. [Laughs] But I didn’t know they had been working on it for over a year before they started, before it became public knowledge, and I didn’t know that Eisenhower made the big decision to make it a nonmilitary program.\\n\\n Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there are any final comments"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.968340679763916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The cranes are pretty much the unit that we use to assemble the SRBs [Solid Rocket Boosters], the ET [External Tank] and the Shuttle. We put the payload in the OPF [Orbiter Processing Facility] for the horizontal payload, and we use the 90-ton to put the vertical payloads in the pad. They’re pretty much essential. If we don’t have it, they cannot be assembled. That’s the bottom line on that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the important attributes [of crane operators]? Or what do you expect the people who work in the crane department? What kind of skills are you looking for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re looking at people that are capable of not getting nervous when they’re picking up an orbiter. They can talk and [demonstrate their] skill when they’re talking on the radios, especially since the crane operator has to be the electrician, and they have to be mechanical too. So they have to have their own skill too. They have to be skilled in their own craft, separate from being a crane operator. The people that work with us, they’re really nice people.\n\nWhen you’re picking up flight hardware or an SRB and you have a crane problem, and the crane goes out, you have to go out there and fix that very quickly. You need people in this group that can make decisions. Not everyone can make decisions. They freeze up. They become afraid of the consequences. You need people in the group to go out there and be able to come up and make [decisions]. You do take calculations into consideration. There’s risk factors, but you have to make a decision and move forward. That’s a big difference. A lot of responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the responsibility of such expensive hardware. There’s no time for oops."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least we haven’t dropped anything.\n\nNo, we have a good record.\n\nYes, maybe damaged a couple of things. But not dropped anything.\n\nIf you drop an SRB, that’s it. Everything’s over. So you cannot do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the use of the crane with the mate/demate device. Can you share what those steps are?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.53741301648418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Inside little things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have to come up with ways to make something work, because you don’t have that opportunity to redesign. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have to live with [things]. It’s very difficult to redesign a lot of things, because there are a lot of drawings you have to revise, and you have to go through a huge process to revise things. There’s a lot of paperwork.\n\nAt the beginning we were launching a lot, not compared to now at the end. We did three at least a year. We were doing about five or six a year. So it was a constant movement. Then we are involved through the whole process of doing the orbiter, from the SRB, ET, and then the Shuttle. As soon as it goes out of here the only thing you have to take care is the payload—if it goes that way. If not, it was already installed in the OPF so we didn’t have to worry. It was constantly pop, one after the other one.\n\nSo you don’t have time to do improvements all the time, because of the schedule. Everything was so schedule-driven. We’re not talking eight-hour days. We’re talking around the clock 24-hour shifts.\n\nFor mating.\n\nIt was unreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there other tools or ingenious resource fixes that you can think of that you guys put together during the timeframe other than the [telescoping tube]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the MDD? Or on other stuff here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "MDD first, and then you can do some other stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.617850502721783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have to live with [things]. It’s very difficult to redesign a lot of things, because there are a lot of drawings you have to revise, and you have to go through a huge process to revise things. There’s a lot of paperwork.\n\nAt the beginning we were launching a lot, not compared to now at the end. We did three at least a year. We were doing about five or six a year. So it was a constant movement. Then we are involved through the whole process of doing the orbiter, from the SRB, ET, and then the Shuttle. As soon as it goes out of here the only thing you have to take care is the payload—if it goes that way. If not, it was already installed in the OPF so we didn’t have to worry. It was constantly pop, one after the other one.\n\nSo you don’t have time to do improvements all the time, because of the schedule. Everything was so schedule-driven. We’re not talking eight-hour days. We’re talking around the clock 24-hour shifts.\n\nFor mating.\n\nIt was unreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there other tools or ingenious resource fixes that you can think of that you guys put together during the timeframe other than the [telescoping tube]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the MDD? Or on other stuff here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "MDD first, and then you can do some other stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The MDD is pretty much maintenance stuff that we had to [be] ingenious on, because of the telescoping tube principally and the bad weather. The other things they have been pretty good, other crane stuff.\n\nI brought my design skills where I could do a sketch real quick and get a shop to make a part that we need to go out there and implement. That was the nice part. I saw instant results. I liked that.\n\nThat’s why we’re going to keep it. We told him, “Hey, you’re coming back—you’re not staying there.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what other types of fixes did you do? Can you think of some more that you worked on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.807623993485226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All winching systems or hoisting systems have to have at least two brakes on them. The reason why we added them is to stop the hoist when you stop operating. Then you had an emergency brake which would lock everything up. The emergency brake is designed if you lost power the spring-load in the caliper would clamp down on the disk. The way it is is you hydraulically pull back the brakes, so if you have a loss of power, the valves would release, and the spring-loaded mechanical systems would clamp on the brake. Very fail safe. All hoisting systems have to have a minimum of two independent brakes for safety.\n\nThat emergency brake that he’s talking about, it’s activated mainly by the overspeed. We have an overspeed in the system that is calibrated to a certain rpm [rates per minute]. If it goes over that rpm, then it shut off the power, and drop[ped] out the solenoid on that caliper. Then it’s set up in the wheel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have to use it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but it got activated by nuisance trips. So we decided to go ahead and change the wedge system to the disk brake system, because it was easier to dislodge them completely. It was a good design; it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was very valuable—not just for the hardware but of course for people. Or vice versa, not just for people but for the hardware."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have to create it for the overall system. We have to create a special tool. It was like a fork to get in there. Sometimes you even had to bump the hoist to be able to dislodge the wedges in there, it was so hard. It was steel against steel, so it was really hard.\n\nYes, it was a pretty lame design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worked for 1960, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1822518438089205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but it got activated by nuisance trips. So we decided to go ahead and change the wedge system to the disk brake system, because it was easier to dislodge them completely. It was a good design; it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was very valuable—not just for the hardware but of course for people. Or vice versa, not just for people but for the hardware."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have to create it for the overall system. We have to create a special tool. It was like a fork to get in there. Sometimes you even had to bump the hoist to be able to dislodge the wedges in there, it was so hard. It was steel against steel, so it was really hard.\n\nYes, it was a pretty lame design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worked for 1960, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It worked fine until we finally came up with that solution. It was a good solution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you integrated those brake systems in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.632409683714717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have to create it for the overall system. We have to create a special tool. It was like a fork to get in there. Sometimes you even had to bump the hoist to be able to dislodge the wedges in there, it was so hard. It was steel against steel, so it was really hard.\n\nYes, it was a pretty lame design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worked for 1960, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It worked fine until we finally came up with that solution. It was a good solution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you integrated those brake systems in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the mid ’90s, I think. Yes, ’95 let’s say.\n\nThey did the modification in Dryden but they didn’t do the other brake modification over there, because over there they didn’t have the problem with the rust. So that was taken care of. We only did half of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If a modification was made at Dryden, was it also made here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.480048930576894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It worked fine until we finally came up with that solution. It was a good solution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember when you integrated those brake systems in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the mid ’90s, I think. Yes, ’95 let’s say.\n\nThey did the modification in Dryden but they didn’t do the other brake modification over there, because over there they didn’t have the problem with the rust. So that was taken care of. We only did half of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If a modification was made at Dryden, was it also made here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s more like the other way around. Here first and then [there].\n\nYes because we do the maintaining. But it was operated by the ops people [at Dryden]. Over here we do the maintenance [and] operate the system too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew the system inside and out because you had used it. Tell me about the weather and the corrosion."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.407467815527028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the mid ’90s, I think. Yes, ’95 let’s say.\n\nThey did the modification in Dryden but they didn’t do the other brake modification over there, because over there they didn’t have the problem with the rust. So that was taken care of. We only did half of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If a modification was made at Dryden, was it also made here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s more like the other way around. Here first and then [there].\n\nYes because we do the maintaining. But it was operated by the ops people [at Dryden]. Over here we do the maintenance [and] operate the system too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew the system inside and out because you had used it. Tell me about the weather and the corrosion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He can tell you a lot. He worked a lot of it.\n\nI’ll tell you what. In California you have the desert and no salt. The MDD out there is pristine. The one out here, it is a constant battle with rust and corrosion. Not only does it affect the structure and the steels, but it affects the electronics, the breakers, the electrical system, even our wiring gets corroded. It gets brittle. Constant battle. Just very difficult. That’s one of our most difficult facilities to maintain, because it’s a frame structure out in the weather. We have hurricanes and things like that.\n\nWater, rain.\n\nWater constantly gets penetrated. We have birds, thousands of birds.\n\nAlligators.\n\nBuzzards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They think it’s a roost?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.11940868391892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s more like the other way around. Here first and then [there].\n\nYes because we do the maintaining. But it was operated by the ops people [at Dryden]. Over here we do the maintenance [and] operate the system too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you knew the system inside and out because you had used it. Tell me about the weather and the corrosion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He can tell you a lot. He worked a lot of it.\n\nI’ll tell you what. In California you have the desert and no salt. The MDD out there is pristine. The one out here, it is a constant battle with rust and corrosion. Not only does it affect the structure and the steels, but it affects the electronics, the breakers, the electrical system, even our wiring gets corroded. It gets brittle. Constant battle. Just very difficult. That’s one of our most difficult facilities to maintain, because it’s a frame structure out in the weather. We have hurricanes and things like that.\n\nWater, rain.\n\nWater constantly gets penetrated. We have birds, thousands of birds.\n\nAlligators.\n\nBuzzards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They think it’s a roost?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Snakes, spider.\n\nThat sit on that. They go on it pretty much. Their droppings are corrosive. It’s just a very difficult facility. Be honest with you, as much attachment as I have with it, the last one goes off--."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’ll be good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.021565204354353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He can tell you a lot. He worked a lot of it.\n\nI’ll tell you what. In California you have the desert and no salt. The MDD out there is pristine. The one out here, it is a constant battle with rust and corrosion. Not only does it affect the structure and the steels, but it affects the electronics, the breakers, the electrical system, even our wiring gets corroded. It gets brittle. Constant battle. Just very difficult. That’s one of our most difficult facilities to maintain, because it’s a frame structure out in the weather. We have hurricanes and things like that.\n\nWater, rain.\n\nWater constantly gets penetrated. We have birds, thousands of birds.\n\nAlligators.\n\nBuzzards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They think it’s a roost?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Snakes, spider.\n\nThat sit on that. They go on it pretty much. Their droppings are corrosive. It’s just a very difficult facility. Be honest with you, as much attachment as I have with it, the last one goes off--."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’ll be good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a regular maintenance schedule?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 21.135072449282614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Snakes, spider.\n\nThat sit on that. They go on it pretty much. Their droppings are corrosive. It’s just a very difficult facility. Be honest with you, as much attachment as I have with it, the last one goes off--."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’ll be good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a regular maintenance schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you tear it down?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.261191610314015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a regular maintenance schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you tear it down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we have an operational and maintenance procedure. The operation [and maintenance instruction] mainly tells you how to operate the system and all the whistles that the system has. We have a maintenance procedure that we do quarterly, semiannual, and annual PMs [definition?]. Then we do a load test every year. I think since Challenger they came out with, they call it the file six requirement. It’s a database that they created after Challenger that any critical system that [has] a requirement would be put into that database. So it have to be signed every 365 days. It had to be done that way. So the load test, when we pick up that weight, the total weight of the hoist, the 100% load test, we test each brake individually. We test the emergency brake, verify that it holds, and also holds at 150%. So you don’t choke the load if it’s activated.\\n\\n Regular maintenance on the wire ropes, on all the electrical components, and everything. So we keep a constant maintenance all the time. No matter if we use it or not. Then before every use we do a good preop, because the system is not used that constantly like the cranes over here that we use more. The preop there takes about maybe two, three days to get that done. So before we did Discovery we took pretty much a whole week because we haven’t used that one for a long long time. The weather has been nice, so it has been operating often. Everything worked fine in this onload that we did for Discovery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess on a couple sides you were busy, because as we were walking in you mentioned that Discovery had been kept in the VAB."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.512435122571127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you tear it down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we have an operational and maintenance procedure. The operation [and maintenance instruction] mainly tells you how to operate the system and all the whistles that the system has. We have a maintenance procedure that we do quarterly, semiannual, and annual PMs [definition?]. Then we do a load test every year. I think since Challenger they came out with, they call it the file six requirement. It’s a database that they created after Challenger that any critical system that [has] a requirement would be put into that database. So it have to be signed every 365 days. It had to be done that way. So the load test, when we pick up that weight, the total weight of the hoist, the 100% load test, we test each brake individually. We test the emergency brake, verify that it holds, and also holds at 150%. So you don’t choke the load if it’s activated.\\n\\n Regular maintenance on the wire ropes, on all the electrical components, and everything. So we keep a constant maintenance all the time. No matter if we use it or not. Then before every use we do a good preop, because the system is not used that constantly like the cranes over here that we use more. The preop there takes about maybe two, three days to get that done. So before we did Discovery we took pretty much a whole week because we haven’t used that one for a long long time. The weather has been nice, so it has been operating often. Everything worked fine in this onload that we did for Discovery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess on a couple sides you were busy, because as we were walking in you mentioned that Discovery had been kept in the VAB."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you mind walking me through the last couple weeks or however long it was that you actually started moving Discovery toward [ferry flight]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.509179163668056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you mind walking me through the last couple weeks or however long it was that you actually started moving Discovery toward [ferry flight]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Discovery was moved out of OPF-2 because it was completed. So they moved it to High Bay 4. NASA did that, because they don’t have another bay, because the other bay was rented to commercial people. They put it there, and they said, “Hey, now we can show it to people.” So they got tour buses coming into the VAB, and they could walk through for the tour people so they can see Discovery in High Bay 4. That was something nice extra that the tour people got to see. They were pretty close, maybe 25 feet from the orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice, that is close. So you babysat with her for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you mentioned about a week before you went out to the --"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.676865737408951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Discovery was moved out of OPF-2 because it was completed. So they moved it to High Bay 4. NASA did that, because they don’t have another bay, because the other bay was rented to commercial people. They put it there, and they said, “Hey, now we can show it to people.” So they got tour buses coming into the VAB, and they could walk through for the tour people so they can see Discovery in High Bay 4. That was something nice extra that the tour people got to see. They were pretty close, maybe 25 feet from the orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice, that is close. So you babysat with her for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you mentioned about a week before you went out to the --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the MDD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And checked it all out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.181315725196235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you mentioned about a week before you went out to the --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the MDD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And checked it all out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the preop on the hoist, on the SAP, and the X-Y system. So we did pretty extensive [tests]. We didn’t want them to have any hiccups. We know that there was a lot of people watching us and looking at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess on this onload you had a few more observers, I guess, than normal because of its destination."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.9880874145353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the MDD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And checked it all out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the preop on the hoist, on the SAP, and the X-Y system. So we did pretty extensive [tests]. We didn’t want them to have any hiccups. We know that there was a lot of people watching us and looking at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess on this onload you had a few more observers, I guess, than normal because of its destination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and TV, it has been recorded and everything. Everything was recorded.\n\nOur OMI [Operations and Maintenance Instruction] systems, we have monthly maintenance that we do, and we have semiannuals every six months that we do, and then we have our annuals. The annuals are more extensive, deeper maintenance that we do than the others. Then our 100% load test where they bring these great big weight cages. They have these great big 10,000-pound plates that they shove in like a deck of cards. For each hoist connection we pick up these great big weight cages. It’s quite impressive. Do our testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s used for weight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.875652682817002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the preop on the hoist, on the SAP, and the X-Y system. So we did pretty extensive [tests]. We didn’t want them to have any hiccups. We know that there was a lot of people watching us and looking at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess on this onload you had a few more observers, I guess, than normal because of its destination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and TV, it has been recorded and everything. Everything was recorded.\n\nOur OMI [Operations and Maintenance Instruction] systems, we have monthly maintenance that we do, and we have semiannuals every six months that we do, and then we have our annuals. The annuals are more extensive, deeper maintenance that we do than the others. Then our 100% load test where they bring these great big weight cages. They have these great big 10,000-pound plates that they shove in like a deck of cards. For each hoist connection we pick up these great big weight cages. It’s quite impressive. Do our testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s used for weight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Steel plates. I would say like two-inch-by--.\n\nThey call it like a test cage. They slap those [in] and put them on top of it.\n\nSlide them in like cards. Two-inch. I would say they’re like six-by-ten maybe sheets of heavy heavy plates that they slide into a square frame, steel structural frame. Then we attach to that, pick it up. Three of them for each hoist. There’s three hoists. People forget. There’s two on the aft component of the sling setup because that’s where all your engines are. Basically your heaviest, like 60% I would say of the weight, is in the aft portion because of the three main engines and the OMS [Orbital Maneuvering System] engines and the fuel cells. The front portion of the Shuttle that we pick up is just one hoist. That’s much lighter because there’s not as much components in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you always test for the maximum load?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.750725203130003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and TV, it has been recorded and everything. Everything was recorded.\n\nOur OMI [Operations and Maintenance Instruction] systems, we have monthly maintenance that we do, and we have semiannuals every six months that we do, and then we have our annuals. The annuals are more extensive, deeper maintenance that we do than the others. Then our 100% load test where they bring these great big weight cages. They have these great big 10,000-pound plates that they shove in like a deck of cards. For each hoist connection we pick up these great big weight cages. It’s quite impressive. Do our testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s used for weight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Steel plates. I would say like two-inch-by--.\n\nThey call it like a test cage. They slap those [in] and put them on top of it.\n\nSlide them in like cards. Two-inch. I would say they’re like six-by-ten maybe sheets of heavy heavy plates that they slide into a square frame, steel structural frame. Then we attach to that, pick it up. Three of them for each hoist. There’s three hoists. People forget. There’s two on the aft component of the sling setup because that’s where all your engines are. Basically your heaviest, like 60% I would say of the weight, is in the aft portion because of the three main engines and the OMS [Orbital Maneuvering System] engines and the fuel cells. The front portion of the Shuttle that we pick up is just one hoist. That’s much lighter because there’s not as much components in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you always test for the maximum load?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. 100%. If we do a modification in the brake system, in the path of that brake, we will have to do 125% load test, just to verify the integrity of the component and [that] everything worked fine. Then we continue doing the 100% load test on that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for Discovery’s route last week, she left early Thursday, I think, morning. Wednesday morning?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.167472447922226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Steel plates. I would say like two-inch-by--.\n\nThey call it like a test cage. They slap those [in] and put them on top of it.\n\nSlide them in like cards. Two-inch. I would say they’re like six-by-ten maybe sheets of heavy heavy plates that they slide into a square frame, steel structural frame. Then we attach to that, pick it up. Three of them for each hoist. There’s three hoists. People forget. There’s two on the aft component of the sling setup because that’s where all your engines are. Basically your heaviest, like 60% I would say of the weight, is in the aft portion because of the three main engines and the OMS [Orbital Maneuvering System] engines and the fuel cells. The front portion of the Shuttle that we pick up is just one hoist. That’s much lighter because there’s not as much components in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you always test for the maximum load?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. 100%. If we do a modification in the brake system, in the path of that brake, we will have to do 125% load test, just to verify the integrity of the component and [that] everything worked fine. Then we continue doing the 100% load test on that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for Discovery’s route last week, she left early Thursday, I think, morning. Wednesday morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Saturday morning. They took it out at 4:30 in the morning. We left the doors open the night before in High Bay 4. The weather was good, maybe cloudy but they didn’t care if it rained. The orbiter people came in, and heavy equipment came in. Put the threshover plates [in]. I think at 4:30 they were pulling it back. By the time the crane crew got here, it was already parked underneath the—they took in the wheels. So they tow it all the way back to the OPF. So from there on by 7:00, yes, they were ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just reported down to the SLF [Shuttle Landing Facility], is that what it’s called?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.454817087733586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. 100%. If we do a modification in the brake system, in the path of that brake, we will have to do 125% load test, just to verify the integrity of the component and [that] everything worked fine. Then we continue doing the 100% load test on that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for Discovery’s route last week, she left early Thursday, I think, morning. Wednesday morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Saturday morning. They took it out at 4:30 in the morning. We left the doors open the night before in High Bay 4. The weather was good, maybe cloudy but they didn’t care if it rained. The orbiter people came in, and heavy equipment came in. Put the threshover plates [in]. I think at 4:30 they were pulling it back. By the time the crane crew got here, it was already parked underneath the—they took in the wheels. So they tow it all the way back to the OPF. So from there on by 7:00, yes, they were ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just reported down to the SLF [Shuttle Landing Facility], is that what it’s called?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the MDD, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about that morning? I understand you had weather again that caused a little issue."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4291981088792305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this Saturday. Yes this Saturday we hook[ed] up everything. We lifted the front, and we were lowering down. We attached the aft, and then we had to stop there. We were supposed to pick it up so we can get the 747 underneath. We [could not] do it because of wind restraint. The wind was coming from the southeast at 26 to 28 knots. The tolerance is 16. If the wind comes from the east I think 16. You can put more wind straight from the front because it doesn’t move the orbiter. So we had to stop. Safety shut us down. We had to get wood cribbage, how do you call those?\n\nCribbing.\n\nWe had to put the cribbing in the front wheel about four feet high and lower the front a little bit. So we set the front wheel in there and lock[ed] it up, and [left] the orbiter hanging in there halfway until the next day. So he took over the next day, and they were able to finish it.\n\nYes it went very smooth Sunday. We completed everything pretty much ahead of schedule. Worked out well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So safety issues like on Saturday, was there more of a concern for the orbiter or more concern for the people working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For both. For both, because you got a load that is doing this. [Demonstrates]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moving back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, back and forth. Even though it’s going to a machine, you don’t want to damage anyhow.\n\nWell, you know what, they’ve had data basically on side loads from wind. People forget that when you have that huge tail rudder and the side of the orbiter, you have a wind of let’s say 10, 15 knots, you have about 4,000 or 5,000 pounds of force from that wind. It’s basically a sail like on a sailboat. A lot of loads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With a tail that big, you’re right. So you were finished on Sunday, correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:126", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.826170504789173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For both. For both, because you got a load that is doing this. [Demonstrates]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moving back and forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, back and forth. Even though it’s going to a machine, you don’t want to damage anyhow.\n\nWell, you know what, they’ve had data basically on side loads from wind. People forget that when you have that huge tail rudder and the side of the orbiter, you have a wind of let’s say 10, 15 knots, you have about 4,000 or 5,000 pounds of force from that wind. It’s basically a sail like on a sailboat. A lot of loads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With a tail that big, you’re right. So you were finished on Sunday, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long does it normally take if you don’t have weather conditions or a brake having to be replaced?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9151858776257518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, back and forth. Even though it’s going to a machine, you don’t want to damage anyhow.\n\nWell, you know what, they’ve had data basically on side loads from wind. People forget that when you have that huge tail rudder and the side of the orbiter, you have a wind of let’s say 10, 15 knots, you have about 4,000 or 5,000 pounds of force from that wind. It’s basically a sail like on a sailboat. A lot of loads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With a tail that big, you’re right. So you were finished on Sunday, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long does it normally take if you don’t have weather conditions or a brake having to be replaced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually takes between 14 to 16 hours pretty much from the beginning to end. It all depends. This was beautiful weather even though it was windy Saturday. We didn’t have any mosquitoes. You didn’t have nothing that bothers you, because sometimes it gets so bad with mosquitoes on there it’s unbelievable. You have to put one of those screen jackets so the mosquito wouldn’t bother you. It’s unbelievable the amount of mosquitoes.\n\nOne of my fondest memories of the MDD is I had to operate—it was a 24-hour shift. Had to come in at 7:00 and work 7:00 in the morning. It was drizzling rain. It was in the middle of August and hot, drizzling rain. I was glazed over like a doughnut with Deep Woods OFF. The winds were coming and going, but I remember the floodlights. We have five stadiumlike floodlights, and it was at night in this drizzling rain. They were swarming around the floodlights, the mosquitoes, and they created like a vortex around these floodlights. I was staring saying, “Oh my God this is unbelievable.” That was a rough shift, going through that night and all day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know what the use of mosquitoes is, but they’re horrible, they’re just horrible. Tell me is there a difference, a risk factor in operations procedure when you’re doing a night operation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.385969768407094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I started in ’84. They landed over there 54 times, plus the one in White Sands [Space Harbor, New Mexico]. From that maybe half of it, or a little bit more than half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do the [OMDPs, Orbit Maintenance Down Periods]? Would you help load them go to back out and come back in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, that was when they did the upgrades on the orbiter. They had to be sent back to California, Rockwell. So they had to be onloaded and sent back to Rockwell for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many have you been involved with, Don?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I started 11 years ago and pretty much all the ones. To count them, I can’t really count them. It’s just I guess about 10 or 12 maybe.\n\nNo, I think more than that.\n\nMore than that? I lost track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they’re all the same, but yet every one is different every time you do it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.897718484914064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, that was when they did the upgrades on the orbiter. They had to be sent back to California, Rockwell. So they had to be onloaded and sent back to Rockwell for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many have you been involved with, Don?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I started 11 years ago and pretty much all the ones. To count them, I can’t really count them. It’s just I guess about 10 or 12 maybe.\n\nNo, I think more than that.\n\nMore than that? I lost track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they’re all the same, but yet every one is different every time you do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it all depends. At the beginning they were all landing in Edwards. So you knew that you were going to use the MDD. Then later on they said, “No, we save $1 million every time we land here. So hey, why don’t we start using KSC?” Then they start using KSC. But sometimes the weather here was so bad that they still had to use Edwards. So the people that go to Edwards, sometimes they were sent the same day. They said, “Hey, you have to get your stuff, get a military plane, and take you off over there.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did your crew go to Edwards?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.10857609434896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I started 11 years ago and pretty much all the ones. To count them, I can’t really count them. It’s just I guess about 10 or 12 maybe.\n\nNo, I think more than that.\n\nMore than that? I lost track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess they’re all the same, but yet every one is different every time you do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it all depends. At the beginning they were all landing in Edwards. So you knew that you were going to use the MDD. Then later on they said, “No, we save $1 million every time we land here. So hey, why don’t we start using KSC?” Then they start using KSC. But sometimes the weather here was so bad that they still had to use Edwards. So the people that go to Edwards, sometimes they were sent the same day. They said, “Hey, you have to get your stuff, get a military plane, and take you off over there.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did your crew go to Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don’t operate over there, but we support engineeringwise for that.\n\nProblems with the hoist and things like that, mechanical, electrical.\n\nYes, he went there one time to do a load test, no?\n\nNo. I was out there for—they had that other structure—what was that called?\n\nOh. The frame.\n\nThe OLF [Orbiter Lifting Frame].\n\nThe lifting frame that they use in White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "White Sands and Palmdale [California]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3428623270544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it all depends. At the beginning they were all landing in Edwards. So you knew that you were going to use the MDD. Then later on they said, “No, we save $1 million every time we land here. So hey, why don’t we start using KSC?” Then they start using KSC. But sometimes the weather here was so bad that they still had to use Edwards. So the people that go to Edwards, sometimes they were sent the same day. They said, “Hey, you have to get your stuff, get a military plane, and take you off over there.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did your crew go to Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don’t operate over there, but we support engineeringwise for that.\n\nProblems with the hoist and things like that, mechanical, electrical.\n\nYes, he went there one time to do a load test, no?\n\nNo. I was out there for—they had that other structure—what was that called?\n\nOh. The frame.\n\nThe OLF [Orbiter Lifting Frame].\n\nThe lifting frame that they use in White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "White Sands and Palmdale [California]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. I went out there to decommission that and take it down. I was looking at everything. Everything was just in perfect condition. I was like—[demonstrates]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m so jealous."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8924226259930856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we don’t operate over there, but we support engineeringwise for that.\n\nProblems with the hoist and things like that, mechanical, electrical.\n\nYes, he went there one time to do a load test, no?\n\nNo. I was out there for—they had that other structure—what was that called?\n\nOh. The frame.\n\nThe OLF [Orbiter Lifting Frame].\n\nThe lifting frame that they use in White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "White Sands and Palmdale [California]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting. I went out there to decommission that and take it down. I was looking at everything. Everything was just in perfect condition. I was like—[demonstrates]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m so jealous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s like it’s a shame to take this facility down, because everything was working so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what will happen to the mate/demate here I guess after Endeavour leaves?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.936226067936223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know.\n\nI hope they demolition it to be honest with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It needs it. It’s seen its day; it has absolutely seen its day.\n\nYes, it has been there for what, [52] years pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be glad to see that—believe it or not—taken down.\n\nUnless they come with something similar to the orbiter, something that they can use. I don’t see any other reason for that at all.\n\nI think it would have been a lot better if they had enclosed it somewhat, keep the weather off it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever move? Has it just always been at the SLF?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.164919160406343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It needs it. It’s seen its day; it has absolutely seen its day.\n\nYes, it has been there for what, [52] years pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be glad to see that—believe it or not—taken down.\n\nUnless they come with something similar to the orbiter, something that they can use. I don’t see any other reason for that at all.\n\nI think it would have been a lot better if they had enclosed it somewhat, keep the weather off it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever move? Has it just always been at the SLF?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always been on the apron. On the ramp over there on the northeast part of the ramp. Pretty much at the end of the runway where the Shuttle facility office are.\n\nI have a little bit of a funny story. I was out there, and we changed the wire ropes. That was one of the mods [modifications] we did out there. Then they also painted the facility, top to bottom. We had a contractor come out and paint this, removed all the rust. So I was going back out there to do a follow-up on the painting. Here’s this beautiful facility. At the top there must have been I would say about 35, 40 buzzards sitting up there, already messing up the facility. I was mad. I went up the stairs, all the way up to the 100-foot level to these buzzards that were sitting on the handrails. They would not move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They claimed their spot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.141875506674498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll be glad to see that—believe it or not—taken down.\n\nUnless they come with something similar to the orbiter, something that they can use. I don’t see any other reason for that at all.\n\nI think it would have been a lot better if they had enclosed it somewhat, keep the weather off it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever move? Has it just always been at the SLF?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always been on the apron. On the ramp over there on the northeast part of the ramp. Pretty much at the end of the runway where the Shuttle facility office are.\n\nI have a little bit of a funny story. I was out there, and we changed the wire ropes. That was one of the mods [modifications] we did out there. Then they also painted the facility, top to bottom. We had a contractor come out and paint this, removed all the rust. So I was going back out there to do a follow-up on the painting. Here’s this beautiful facility. At the top there must have been I would say about 35, 40 buzzards sitting up there, already messing up the facility. I was mad. I went up the stairs, all the way up to the 100-foot level to these buzzards that were sitting on the handrails. They would not move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They claimed their spot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably four, five feet away from them waving my arms, yelling at them, and those buzzards looked at me like, “Who the heck are you?”\n\nHey, this is wildlife here.\n\nSo basically they won that battle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you mention snakes get in there as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.347994452684564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always been on the apron. On the ramp over there on the northeast part of the ramp. Pretty much at the end of the runway where the Shuttle facility office are.\n\nI have a little bit of a funny story. I was out there, and we changed the wire ropes. That was one of the mods [modifications] we did out there. Then they also painted the facility, top to bottom. We had a contractor come out and paint this, removed all the rust. So I was going back out there to do a follow-up on the painting. Here’s this beautiful facility. At the top there must have been I would say about 35, 40 buzzards sitting up there, already messing up the facility. I was mad. I went up the stairs, all the way up to the 100-foot level to these buzzards that were sitting on the handrails. They would not move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They claimed their spot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably four, five feet away from them waving my arms, yelling at them, and those buzzards looked at me like, “Who the heck are you?”\n\nHey, this is wildlife here.\n\nSo basically they won that battle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you mention snakes get in there as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes snakes. Like he was telling [you]. We have—it’s like a little room that was at the 100-foot level. They use it for antennas and communication and something like that, but at the end they took all that stuff out. There was wasps; there was snakes. Anything gets in there, and storage in there.\n\nWasps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long way for a snake to go."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.053327169649516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably four, five feet away from them waving my arms, yelling at them, and those buzzards looked at me like, “Who the heck are you?”\n\nHey, this is wildlife here.\n\nSo basically they won that battle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you mention snakes get in there as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes snakes. Like he was telling [you]. We have—it’s like a little room that was at the 100-foot level. They use it for antennas and communication and something like that, but at the end they took all that stuff out. There was wasps; there was snakes. Anything gets in there, and storage in there.\n\nWasps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long way for a snake to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know.\n\nThere must have been 100,000 wasps in that side of that room. You look inside through the window, and you can see the nests on the ceiling. They would come out and bother you. You’d be working and these wasps would be all around you. So I was really glad when they took that down. Then also we had a brake cover, a box. We noticed inside the box there were some baby rabbits or something so I didn’t want to disturb them. They were in a little area underneath it. It seemed like they wouldn’t hurt anything, so I left it. Came back the next monthly maintenance. There was a big snake in place of the baby rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is elevated, right? These snakes go up this elevated platform."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:200", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.737074306789459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes snakes. Like he was telling [you]. We have—it’s like a little room that was at the 100-foot level. They use it for antennas and communication and something like that, but at the end they took all that stuff out. There was wasps; there was snakes. Anything gets in there, and storage in there.\n\nWasps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long way for a snake to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know.\n\nThere must have been 100,000 wasps in that side of that room. You look inside through the window, and you can see the nests on the ceiling. They would come out and bother you. You’d be working and these wasps would be all around you. So I was really glad when they took that down. Then also we had a brake cover, a box. We noticed inside the box there were some baby rabbits or something so I didn’t want to disturb them. They were in a little area underneath it. It seemed like they wouldn’t hurt anything, so I left it. Came back the next monthly maintenance. There was a big snake in place of the baby rabbits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is elevated, right? These snakes go up this elevated platform."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unbelievable. There were a couple times in the Shuttle program that flights were halted, after Challenger and after Columbia [STS-107]. Did that timeframe allow your group to make any other modifications on your operation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.708828865598158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never got that frozen part. It was really cold that day.\n\nMy point out here is that we did that many critical connections and have a perfect record. I’m kind of proud of it.\n\nOn the crane side at least.\n\nOn the crane side.\n\nThe only thing that happened one time was in the RPSF [Rotation Processing and Surge Facility]. Remember we [had] a failure in one of the load cells on the crane. We damaged the clevis on one of the SRBs. We pulled too much on it. That was one time. But one in so many, I think we have a good record."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Processes, it’s so important for the next person that comes through. Is your process different on the MDD? Was it different than the process the use out at Dryden? Or did you copy the process pretty closely?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never been there. So I think they use pretty much the same process.\n\nSame thing. Same OMI, the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OMI is --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s an operations instruction or maintenance instruction, whatever you want to call it. They call it operations and maintenance instruction, OMI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to take a second and look at my notes and see if there’s something else, if you’ll do the same so that we don’t miss anything. Pretty much what you’re saying, the mating and demating have remained the same. The processes remained the same for all those years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.047936871108837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never been there. So I think they use pretty much the same process.\n\nSame thing. Same OMI, the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OMI is --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s an operations instruction or maintenance instruction, whatever you want to call it. They call it operations and maintenance instruction, OMI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to take a second and look at my notes and see if there’s something else, if you’ll do the same so that we don’t miss anything. Pretty much what you’re saying, the mating and demating have remained the same. The processes remained the same for all those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nPretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really no different on the fact that there are two SCAs? They mate the same?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:244", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.831040967898708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s an operations instruction or maintenance instruction, whatever you want to call it. They call it operations and maintenance instruction, OMI."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to take a second and look at my notes and see if there’s something else, if you’ll do the same so that we don’t miss anything. Pretty much what you’re saying, the mating and demating have remained the same. The processes remained the same for all those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nPretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really no different on the fact that there are two SCAs? They mate the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much.\n\nI think the only difference was the one brake issue, and then the one out at Edwards has an elevator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:246", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8654826764181567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nPretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really no different on the fact that there are two SCAs? They mate the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much.\n\nI think the only difference was the one brake issue, and then the one out at Edwards has an elevator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything that comes from the West Coast comes with elevators. You remember the OPF, the platform in OPF-3. They come with an elevator. Over here we don’t, we have to walk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with me how different it’s going to be when they offload Discovery and onload Enterprise? What the operations are going to be at [Washington] Dulles [International Airport, Virginia]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2949807515757294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much.\n\nI think the only difference was the one brake issue, and then the one out at Edwards has an elevator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything that comes from the West Coast comes with elevators. You remember the OPF, the platform in OPF-3. They come with an elevator. Over here we don’t, we have to walk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with me how different it’s going to be when they offload Discovery and onload Enterprise? What the operations are going to be at [Washington] Dulles [International Airport, Virginia]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to be contracted. We’re not going to be involved in it, at least United Space Alliance. We still have heavy equipment engineers going over there, because they’re going to be using mobile cranes. So they’re going to have to have a fixture similar to the one that we have here, hook it up by two mobile cranes. They have to do the same process: pick it up, take the bolts out, pick it up, remove the SCA, and then land it, put it down, open the landing gears and set it down on the floor. But it’s tricky. They’re trying to get the cranes. I think they’re 500-ton cranes. They’re going to try to get it with the operator, the people that do the operation constantly every day. It’s not worth it to send an operator from here that doesn’t know the crane. That way they know the cranes pretty good. So that’s the way they’re going to be doing the offloading over there in Virginia.\n\nBasically a mobile boom crane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Make you nervous? That somebody’s touching your orbiters? How many times you touched them, and they’re yours, and somebody else is going to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:252", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.772200835084144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything that comes from the West Coast comes with elevators. You remember the OPF, the platform in OPF-3. They come with an elevator. Over here we don’t, we have to walk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with me how different it’s going to be when they offload Discovery and onload Enterprise? What the operations are going to be at [Washington] Dulles [International Airport, Virginia]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to be contracted. We’re not going to be involved in it, at least United Space Alliance. We still have heavy equipment engineers going over there, because they’re going to be using mobile cranes. So they’re going to have to have a fixture similar to the one that we have here, hook it up by two mobile cranes. They have to do the same process: pick it up, take the bolts out, pick it up, remove the SCA, and then land it, put it down, open the landing gears and set it down on the floor. But it’s tricky. They’re trying to get the cranes. I think they’re 500-ton cranes. They’re going to try to get it with the operator, the people that do the operation constantly every day. It’s not worth it to send an operator from here that doesn’t know the crane. That way they know the cranes pretty good. So that’s the way they’re going to be doing the offloading over there in Virginia.\n\nBasically a mobile boom crane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Make you nervous? That somebody’s touching your orbiters? How many times you touched them, and they’re yours, and somebody else is going to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least they’re going to be shown for everybody now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Well, Roberto, do you have some other aspects or some other notes or thoughts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:254", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.891605969239684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going to be contracted. We’re not going to be involved in it, at least United Space Alliance. We still have heavy equipment engineers going over there, because they’re going to be using mobile cranes. So they’re going to have to have a fixture similar to the one that we have here, hook it up by two mobile cranes. They have to do the same process: pick it up, take the bolts out, pick it up, remove the SCA, and then land it, put it down, open the landing gears and set it down on the floor. But it’s tricky. They’re trying to get the cranes. I think they’re 500-ton cranes. They’re going to try to get it with the operator, the people that do the operation constantly every day. It’s not worth it to send an operator from here that doesn’t know the crane. That way they know the cranes pretty good. So that’s the way they’re going to be doing the offloading over there in Virginia.\n\nBasically a mobile boom crane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Make you nervous? That somebody’s touching your orbiters? How many times you touched them, and they’re yours, and somebody else is going to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least they’re going to be shown for everybody now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Well, Roberto, do you have some other aspects or some other notes or thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I pretty much covered everything that we have here. We have pretty much covered everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don, do you have some other things you’d like to add or something you can think of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.388077646090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least they’re going to be shown for everybody now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. Well, Roberto, do you have some other aspects or some other notes or thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I pretty much covered everything that we have here. We have pretty much covered everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don, do you have some other things you’d like to add or something you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we covered it pretty well.\n\nWe feel proud of working over here. We didn’t like the way it ended, because we didn’t have a solution for taking astronauts to the Space Station. But hey, we have to live with it and keep on going. We’ll be here until they throw us out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all of us. You’ve got to keep the cranes happy, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.986752940100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I pretty much covered everything that we have here. We have pretty much covered everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don, do you have some other things you’d like to add or something you can think of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we covered it pretty well.\n\nWe feel proud of working over here. We didn’t like the way it ended, because we didn’t have a solution for taking astronauts to the Space Station. But hey, we have to live with it and keep on going. We’ll be here until they throw us out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all of us. You’ve got to keep the cranes happy, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s mainly why we stay here, for the T&R, for transition and retirement. Also NASA wants to keep the cranes ready to go. So we have another contract besides the T&R that was called code capability to do the maintenance on the VAB and some modifications they want to do for the vertical door that he’s getting involved in, the whole group is getting involved. It’s pretty neat. We’re doing a lot of work, even though we’re doing only T&R. But we have some other stuff. It’s good and keep us busy until the end.\n\nYes, a lot of infrastructure rebuilding, especially in the VAB. We have all those 28 vertical doors which are 90,000 pounds each. They’re basically elevators, because you have counterweight systems with them. We’re modifying those lifting systems. They’re basically like a lifting system.\n\nAnd what are you doing? Installing a disk brake with a caliper.\n\nInstalling a new caliper disk brake.\n\nThere he goes again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Using all that experience."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.640490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we covered it pretty well.\n\nWe feel proud of working over here. We didn’t like the way it ended, because we didn’t have a solution for taking astronauts to the Space Station. But hey, we have to live with it and keep on going. We’ll be here until they throw us out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all of us. You’ve got to keep the cranes happy, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s mainly why we stay here, for the T&R, for transition and retirement. Also NASA wants to keep the cranes ready to go. So we have another contract besides the T&R that was called code capability to do the maintenance on the VAB and some modifications they want to do for the vertical door that he’s getting involved in, the whole group is getting involved. It’s pretty neat. We’re doing a lot of work, even though we’re doing only T&R. But we have some other stuff. It’s good and keep us busy until the end.\n\nYes, a lot of infrastructure rebuilding, especially in the VAB. We have all those 28 vertical doors which are 90,000 pounds each. They’re basically elevators, because you have counterweight systems with them. We’re modifying those lifting systems. They’re basically like a lifting system.\n\nAnd what are you doing? Installing a disk brake with a caliper.\n\nInstalling a new caliper disk brake.\n\nThere he goes again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Using all that experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have an old what they call dog system that bites into the rail. They sag and inadvertently grab. We have a lot of problems with those so we’re modifying the lifting system. People forget those vertical doors are elevators, because you have these huge counterweights which are 4 by 4 by 30 feet long approximately, 80,000-pound deadweight that help lift the doors up and lower them down. We’re doing that big modification, United Space Alliance, as our last big job. We took on a contractor role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. I’m sure the VAB has got a lot of years ahead of her."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:270", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have an old what they call dog system that bites into the rail. They sag and inadvertently grab. We have a lot of problems with those so we’re modifying the lifting system. People forget those vertical doors are elevators, because you have these huge counterweights which are 4 by 4 by 30 feet long approximately, 80,000-pound deadweight that help lift the doors up and lower them down. We’re doing that big modification, United Space Alliance, as our last big job. We took on a contractor role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. I’m sure the VAB has got a lot of years ahead of her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Pretty much they repainted everything. They changed all the steel that was rusted pretty much everywhere.\n\nYes, we’re keeping the building in pretty good shape. We’re doing a lot of work on it. You can see out in the transfer aisle all the stuff they’re hauling off. Every day it fills up, and they haul off the trucks. It’s amazing.\n\nAll the stuff that has been staged in here in the building.\n\nJust amazing. I mean probably hundreds of tons of just accumulation of stuff in here.\n\nI talked to the guys that are doing it. You have stuff in here that has been 30 years old that they haven’t used it but they store it in here. Now they have to throw it away finally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you don’t have anything else to add. I’m just curious. Do you name your cranes? Do they all have names, your equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, names in the sense that we call it by the tonnage. Tonnage and crane one, crane two, or depending on the location they are. We call the MDD the MDD, mate/demate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you cross-train all the folks so that they can work on crane one or crane two? Or do you have specific operators?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00696:280", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the beginning we used to cover 24 hours. So we have engineers on first shift and second shift. So the second shifter will have to be more knowledgeable pretty much because he’s by himself. Whenever we have to cover 24 hours he will have to stay 4 hours. The guys in the morning have to come in 4 hours early. So we cover the third shift that way. So whoever’s in second, you better get moving, because something happens, it’s going to be on your watch.\n\nI’m the last mechanical guy in the group. So I have to cover everything pretty much, all the cranes that we still have and all the doors. I think as we lost people you accept more responsibility, and you have to cover more. We’re multitasked now.\n\nHe’s the only mechanical left. I’m electrical. We got three more electrical. Pretty much we have a lot more problems with the electrical parts of the crane than the mechanical. So that’s how we did it. But we’re helping everywhere. Helping with the door mod. We’re just here just to cover everything. It works out well.\n\nOne thing I have to say, the 325-ton cranes are very complicated cranes. The amount of computers. We’ll have the length of the bridge. Half of it with cabinets stuffed with electronics and programmable logic computers and controllers and watchdog controllers. When those things start giving us trouble, it is unbelievable how difficult it is to troubleshoot some of the problems we have.\n\nA lot of software. You have so [much] software involved in it. That’s why we’re getting more younger people in that part to help us with the computer stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Truly has a life of its own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. You got it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you both for spending the morning with me. Appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you for letting us [have] this opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s very interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00886:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 143.36634972988267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I was extremely lucky I have to say. Remember, I came in doing something completely different. I had no clue that I would be involved in anything like this when I first came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, and kind of sad at the same time that we’re missing those opportunities now. I assume it’s because of funding issues that everybody else is going through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and the overall sense of needing control. In the military you want to have control, but when you are doing research you have to relax. People do, to a degree. The management, the Science management, understands all this. The point is it’s not a formal acceptance.\\n\\n It’s different, it’s different. It drives some people away from NASA, and if they can get an equivalent position at a university, they would go. And they have. As I say, they could go to Headquarters and manage the programs that they don’t like. It’s a choice one has to make, or just go in a different field. That happens, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the military, and it just brought to mind one of the things I read about. This was back in ’80 again. It’s on your CV [curriculum vitae] that you were an organizer for the NASA–U.S. Army Workshop on Sub/Near Millimeter Wave Technology."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could be. Was that in Maryland?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Goddard, it says."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00886:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 47.968788458517956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, of course. Of course. When I went another time a few years later, a couple of years later, I think I had a phone call—they also asked just general questions. They had specific questions—whether specific people were there. I said I didn’t meet them, I don’t know who they are. I think the third time I was busy, and then they never called back. It sort of decayed with the Cold War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s quite an experience, and I don’t blame you. I think I would have been a little nervous on the plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. There’s nowhere to run."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, exactly. Unless you had a parachute, that was it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the work you did at Headquarters, and that was between ’93 and ’96. What exactly were you doing in that position? It says “Manager, Planetary Instrument Definition and Development Program [PIDDP].” Talk about that for a minute, and what you were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.428424292364557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember it very well. I had a migraine. I had to go to downtown Boston—this was the first day out of the country, there. I hated coming to Boston. I had to come down to get sworn in by the GSA. I remember coming in from the north, 93 or whatever it was, and there was terrible, terrible t​raffic. It was probably typical daily traffic, but I had never experienced it before. I got to GSA; sworn in, I had such a night. I turned around and came home. I never got here the first day. I said, \"This is not a good sign.\" But the next day, I was better when I came back. That was my first day. I had met Jim a couple of times, while he was attending the Archives' directors' meetings in Washington, so I knew of Jim, and I didn't know of anybody else here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your role here at this time? You were hired, at that point, in January 1977?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. As a general assistant to Jim Owens. I think, as I said, most of it was anticipating getting in there and doing truly backroom archives work in the stacks. Initially, I had to go learn how this operated, and there was a lot of genealogy involved at first. My role was typically research room, reference room, and working with the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had to work with the Federal Records Center, which was a huge presence here, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like? Did you know much about the Federal Records Center? And how it interacts with the Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.476026991516175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. As a general assistant to Jim Owens. I think, as I said, most of it was anticipating getting in there and doing truly backroom archives work in the stacks. Initially, I had to go learn how this operated, and there was a lot of genealogy involved at first. My role was typically research room, reference room, and working with the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had to work with the Federal Records Center, which was a huge presence here, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like? Did you know much about the Federal Records Center? And how it interacts with the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. I got to know them ver​y easily. I got to know the people, the archivists in this side of the building and so forth. We'd work with them getting records transferred to the Archives. I had no problem at all with the​ Records Center people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe some of your functions that you've formed over your time at the National Archives; the various groups that you met—you mentioned genealogy. Describe other organizations and groups that you worked with."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.417807768351306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like? Did you know much about the Federal Records Center? And how it interacts with the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. I got to know them ver​y easily. I got to know the people, the archivists in this side of the building and so forth. We'd work with them getting records transferred to the Archives. I had no problem at all with the​ Records Center people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe some of your functions that you've formed over your time at the National Archives; the various groups that you met—you mentioned genealogy. Describe other organizations and groups that you worked with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our clientele included academics; you know, professors who were doing research on certain things, and stu​dents were coming all the time. So, there were some academics. I was a member of the Council of America's Military Past (CAMP), and a lot of the people in this area were interested in post-artillery forts. And there were quite a few of them that were looking for records on military facilities in New England. They pushed the researchers to me and I was able to assist them, because I got to know the records, and so forth. ​I assisted them quite a bit. Did some work with the volunteer program, initially with the volunteer program, but I was never involved too much in going out and speaking to school groups, or rotary clubs, and so on, and so on. Jim and others pretty much took care of that. My clientele were mostly visitors to the facility, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what would you say your daily activities were? You pretty much were processing archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.824790837200005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you have all ​the elite, original records that are still​ here, or wherever, and they're not going to be online, or microfilmed or anything in the near future. So, we've got lots of records in the backroom, there. Someone's going to have to get them out and take care of them. The outreach part, yeah, I was never a fan of outreach. People who are more comfortable doing it, speaking to groups and so forth—Jim being one of them, but even Walter when he was here, and others—that outreach was done in a number of ways; some major ways and some very minor ways. I think, certainly, it is going to be people who are doing historical work and needing, certainly there's many people who are doing historical work and needing properly cared for and properly described historical records to use. There is no room in Washington. They're still regionalizing records. Is that true, I presume, that records are still coming from Washington?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly to the Archives?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of those records have not been truly processed and described, and so forth. There's work still to be done here, so I would say so. The outreach, that can be done. Diane was really into outreach a lot. And Jim went along with it, to a certain extent. But I kind of just stayed in the back room, where I was happier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say Stan Tozeski's legacy would be here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.360878708000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly to the Archives?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of those records have not been truly processed and described, and so forth. There's work still to be done here, so I would say so. The outreach, that can be done. Diane was really into outreach a lot. And Jim went along with it, to a certain extent. But I kind of just stayed in the back room, where I was happier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say Stan Tozeski's legacy would be here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Legacy? Well, legacy is a catchy, catchy word to use. I think my description work, which I enjoyed doing, I think I did a good job on that. So, any of the description and processing of the collections would be up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to change one thing regarding the National Archives itself, what would you change?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.178754120000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of those records have not been truly processed and described, and so forth. There's work still to be done here, so I would say so. The outreach, that can be done. Diane was really into outreach a lot. And Jim went along with it, to a certain extent. But I kind of just stayed in the back room, where I was happier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say Stan Tozeski's legacy would be here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Legacy? Well, legacy is a catchy, catchy word to use. I think my description work, which I enjoyed doing, I think I did a good job on that. So, any of the description and processing of the collections would be up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to change one thing regarding the National Archives itself, what would you change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can't weigh n."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What should they do a better job at?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 31.309726800000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Legacy? Well, legacy is a catchy, catchy word to use. I think my description work, which I enjoyed doing, I think I did a good job on that. So, any of the description and processing of the collections would be up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to change one thing regarding the National Archives itself, what would you change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can't weigh n."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What should they do a better job at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For people like myself, or the public at home?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The National Archives as a whole. What should they be doing a better job at?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.455252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can't weigh n."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What should they do a better job at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For people like myself, or the public at home?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The National Archives as a whole. What should they be doing a better job at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think they should try to compete with some of the other people in some of the same business—your Library of Congress and other—I always got the feeling that the National Archives, sometimes, wanted to get on the bandwagon, which other people were already doing and had been doing for a long time, just to say, \"Look, we can do it, too.\" You know? I guess you can understand some of that, but as long as they realize that this involvement and a lot of stuff wasn't truly in line with the National Archives mission takes time, and staff, and money, and so forth. Maybe, narrowing this scope of activities and to eliminate a lot of t​he distractions that can come from competition with the other assistance. The National Archives, is supposed to to have the best qualified people, and most knowledgeable people, and there are a lot of smaller archival activities going on all over the country that could use self-publication, maybe that National Archives could put out, or a workshop they could give someplace, and so on. So, the advisory system's function would remain. I don't know whether it would change anything. 15 years out of the game, I'm not sure what they would be doing for the past 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to do it all over again, what would you change? Would you change anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 34.95028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For people like myself, or the public at home?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The National Archives as a whole. What should they be doing a better job at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think they should try to compete with some of the other people in some of the same business—your Library of Congress and other—I always got the feeling that the National Archives, sometimes, wanted to get on the bandwagon, which other people were already doing and had been doing for a long time, just to say, \"Look, we can do it, too.\" You know? I guess you can understand some of that, but as long as they realize that this involvement and a lot of stuff wasn't truly in line with the National Archives mission takes time, and staff, and money, and so forth. Maybe, narrowing this scope of activities and to eliminate a lot of t​he distractions that can come from competition with the other assistance. The National Archives, is supposed to to have the best qualified people, and most knowledgeable people, and there are a lot of smaller archival activities going on all over the country that could use self-publication, maybe that National Archives could put out, or a workshop they could give someplace, and so on. So, the advisory system's function would remain. I don't know whether it would change anything. 15 years out of the game, I'm not sure what they would be doing for the past 15 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to do it all over again, what would you change? Would you change anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Career advancement, and so forth? No, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Before we end this interview, two more questions; the next one being, tell us a little bit about your post-NARA career?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 14.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finally, the last question: Is there anything more to add? Any anecdotes that you can recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was thinking about that. Nothing major. Kind of routine, humdrum affair in the backroom, for the most part. I'm afraid I don't have anything in the way of exciting activities, or discoveries, or—let me look at some of the notes I put down here. You were asking about membership, and so forth. I did belong to quite a few regional activities, and as an archivist, the Council on an abandoned military post and a company of military historians, Boston Area Archives Troop, and that sort of thing. ​The Academy actually got me a membership at the Society of American Archivists (SAA). While I was there, I was an SAA member, but it was through the Military Academy. After leaving there, I did not retain my membership."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think those memberships helped you in the work that you were able to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. The context alone—and then, of course, you were readily able to tell them what we had, here, especially these military guys. As a result, we got quite a bit of statistics about these guys coming in and using our paper records. So, that was good. It all worked out well. That was a nice social thing as well, because there were these periodic meetings of these groups, that was nice to go to, to kind of show the flag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever meet any celebrities or important military individuals in your time?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00056:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. The context alone—and then, of course, you were readily able to tell them what we had, here, especially these military guys. As a result, we got quite a bit of statistics about these guys coming in and using our paper records. So, that was good. It all worked out well. That was a nice social thing as well, because there were these periodic meetings of these groups, that was nice to go to, to kind of show the flag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever meet any celebrities or important military individuals in your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I was working at West Point, we went over to the Roosevelt Library for the dedication of their Eleanor Roosevelt wing. That day, Dag Hammarskjöld was there, and Nelson Rockefeller and Marian Anderson. That was the biggest day, with the biggest names. When I was at West Point, also, they were filming a movie, MacArthur, which Gregory Peck, and that was nice. I just missed Barbara Streisand there; \"Funny Girl.\" She was across the river in Cold Spring, but she spent a lot of time at Trophy Point filming that movie, \"Funny Girl.\" There was Jimmy Cagney at West Point. There was the Archbishop. Yeah, there was a lot of show business. A lot of big names at West Point; not so many here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jimmy Cagney. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He had an estate up the river from West Point, and he went to speak to the cadets, and I was in the back row, of course. But that was nice. The Yankees and the Mets used to come up to play the Army baseball team. I had to go up there and sit in the grandstand, and watch that. Those were historic events, there, for the Academy. But here, it was really much more business and less bigshots, more or less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a very interesting career, Stan. Thank you very much for your interview, and for your time with the National Archives."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00859:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 30, "return_to_go": 66.09564545358742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The name changed, let’s see, that would have been in 2009 when Charlie came on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious because I see it both ways and I never knew when it changed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kid Charlie because I liked the short “External Relations,” but most people think “external relations” is public affairs. It was okay with me. Then, when we changed it to International and Interagency Relations, that almost covered everything, but it didn’t cover the fact that we had a division within our office for advisory councils. So it cut somebody out of the title, but it is actually a better description of what that office does, so I was fine with it.\\n\\n I’d laugh at Charlie because I went on every international trip, except the last one when I got sick there towards the end of my tour. I went on every international trip with Charlie, and he would always introduce me, but he’d never remember the name of our office. I’d say, “Thanks, Charlie. You’re the one that changed the name.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He just changed it, he didn’t have to remember it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became AA in 2003. As you mentioned, the Columbia accident happened earlier in that year. Talk about that time period after Columbia. Not only the accident and when that happened, but what involvement you had as far as explaining what had happened. Then we’ll talk after that about the Vision [for Space Exploration] that the President [George W. Bush] announced [in 2004]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00859:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 53.643721160779485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I went to them all, as many as I could. Oh my gosh, I should have counted. I’ve probably been to 50 or 60 Space Shuttle launches. I didn’t miss very many over the years. Sometimes when the launches were delayed I’d have to leave, but I’d always go down there. It was one of the nice things that our office got to do, although it was hard work. We would send seven or eight of our desk officers down, and they would be escorts for the internationals. Sometimes we would have several hundred internationals down there at launch, and we would escort them. It would give our office a chance to go down and look at something real that we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s always nice to know, especially after all the negotiations, that it actually is happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No kidding, that’s exactly right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s pretty amazing seeing a launch. I imagine that for the international people that got to see it, it was pretty important for them to see, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had lots of high-level internationals that would show up on occasion, too. They never forgot it, as you can imagine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about the Vision for Space Exploration. You talked a little bit about it in your 2007 interview, but I want to talk about what effect that had on the international partners. Mainly the announcement that the Shuttle Program was going to end at some point, because of course the agreements had the Shuttle being there to ferry things back and forth. Talk about how that affected what your area and what was going on with the partners."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00859:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 77.20469363400002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my mistake on that was that I didn’t coordinate that enough with folks around NASA and get some input. It was supposed to be an internal email, of course. It had to do with cooperation. It sounded like we were cutting off all cooperation with Russia, which we were basically told to do at some level, unless it was impacting International Space Station. What we ended up doing, because of the political climate at the time and what I think we were being told to do by the Congress, was cutting back on a couple of projects that we had—I think we had one going on in science in maybe Siberia—until things settled down.\\n\\n The way it resolved itself was just time, because we didn’t have anything new on the books that we were getting ready to do anyways. There were a couple things that we were doing that were grandfathered, or okayed because they would have had a bigger impact on us than they would have had on Russia. I think it was all part of the Ukraine business as you mentioned. As I recall, I didn’t do anything other than to hunker down and let time go by. I think that might have ended up as my only time in NASA Watch [website/blog]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I saw it there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than that I remember it being—what year was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "2014."}, {"role": "user", "content": "2014. Charlie was just a good egg about it, didn’t give me a hard time about it at all. We just moved on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask you about that period in 2009. You mentioned earlier about the Constellation cancelation, then it was announced that we were going to move more toward the commercial partners. Did your office have a part in those negotiations, as far as setting out how that would work with NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00859:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You can see the wheels turning, kids are looking at this guy going, “Oh my God, if he can do it I can do it.” This is internationally. He talks to kids, and he’s probably doing it again already, domestically. But this was an international crowd. They’d come out, and we had 1,000 hanging out of windows in Ethiopia. We were in this little village in Nepal where 250 kids in their little orange uniforms came out and were showing him robots they built. It was just unbelievable.\\n\\n So in the midst of all this other important stuff that we’re doing—we’re on these trips for other reasons—he’s out as the U.S. ambassador of goodwill to the children of the world, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and that’s wonderful. And an example of what you mentioned as one of the things you admired in leadership, was being yourself. I think that is definitely his personality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. For someone who has no idea, only knows Charlie by name, and that he’s an astronaut—then to meet him and to figure out that he’s this real person, it’s a real shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s so genuine, and doesn’t forget anyone he’s ever talked to, I don’t think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you a story about that. “Charlie, one of these days we’re going to be in an airport somewhere in the world and you’re not going to see somebody you know.” It finally happened in the Gobi Desert [China]. We were on a charter flight to fly up to the Jiuquan [Satellite] Launch [Center], first time a NASA group had ever gone to the Chinese human spaceflight launch site. We were in this airport and he didn’t know anybody there. We were the only airplane at the airport, so it was natural that he wouldn’t know anybody. I said, “Charlie, we’ve finally done it, there’s an airport where you’re not stopping to sign an autograph.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a minute about your retirement, and then your successor Al [Albert] Condes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00859:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. For someone who has no idea, only knows Charlie by name, and that he’s an astronaut—then to meet him and to figure out that he’s this real person, it’s a real shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s so genuine, and doesn’t forget anyone he’s ever talked to, I don’t think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you a story about that. “Charlie, one of these days we’re going to be in an airport somewhere in the world and you’re not going to see somebody you know.” It finally happened in the Gobi Desert [China]. We were on a charter flight to fly up to the Jiuquan [Satellite] Launch [Center], first time a NASA group had ever gone to the Chinese human spaceflight launch site. We were in this airport and he didn’t know anybody there. We were the only airplane at the airport, so it was natural that he wouldn’t know anybody. I said, “Charlie, we’ve finally done it, there’s an airport where you’re not stopping to sign an autograph.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a minute about your retirement, and then your successor Al [Albert] Condes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks for asking about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you’d worked with him for quite a while. Is there any advice that you passed on to him when you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.228726489114514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a senior in college at Penn State University, having fun attending classes and riding my bicycle through campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I used to eat lunch in the cafeteria and I found a table with new people. They were young Peace Corps volunteers in training. They were training at Penn State University. And they would always eat their lunch in the cafeteria the same time I did. And so I would eat with them and talk with them and chat with them and ask them what were they doing, where were they going, and were they excited? And they all were very excited and curious about what was going to be happening to them during the next couple of years. And I thought, wow, Peace Corps sounds really neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, let's stop there for a moment. What was your major in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. My major in college was general arts and letters. It was a very general, um, it was liberal arts with the name of the major was general arts and sciences, which meant I could pretty much take any classes that I wanted to, so I would take courses that sounded interesting to me, like ornithology and parasitology and different science courses. And it was a very general liberal arts major, so I didn't feel I was very prepared for anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, during the four years had you studied a foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.031918321238347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I used to eat lunch in the cafeteria and I found a table with new people. They were young Peace Corps volunteers in training. They were training at Penn State University. And they would always eat their lunch in the cafeteria the same time I did. And so I would eat with them and talk with them and chat with them and ask them what were they doing, where were they going, and were they excited? And they all were very excited and curious about what was going to be happening to them during the next couple of years. And I thought, wow, Peace Corps sounds really neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, let's stop there for a moment. What was your major in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. My major in college was general arts and letters. It was a very general, um, it was liberal arts with the name of the major was general arts and sciences, which meant I could pretty much take any classes that I wanted to, so I would take courses that sounded interesting to me, like ornithology and parasitology and different science courses. And it was a very general liberal arts major, so I didn't feel I was very prepared for anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, during the four years had you studied a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had always studied Spanish. I started Spanish, well, I started with Latin in seventh and eighth grade and then Spanish through high school and Spanish through college. And I also took a semester of Italian, so I liked languages a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your four years of college, did you do any kind of volunteer work, any kind of travel, domestic, foreign?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.591020356931496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. My major in college was general arts and letters. It was a very general, um, it was liberal arts with the name of the major was general arts and sciences, which meant I could pretty much take any classes that I wanted to, so I would take courses that sounded interesting to me, like ornithology and parasitology and different science courses. And it was a very general liberal arts major, so I didn't feel I was very prepared for anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, during the four years had you studied a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had always studied Spanish. I started Spanish, well, I started with Latin in seventh and eighth grade and then Spanish through high school and Spanish through college. And I also took a semester of Italian, so I liked languages a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your four years of college, did you do any kind of volunteer work, any kind of travel, domestic, foreign?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I. No travel. And I didn't, I didn't travel at all because my family didn't have any money. Actually, in my sophomore year, I did travel. That's right. I got on a plane and came from Philadelphia out to California to visit a relative. And that was a really scary experience because I never been on a plane before and I'm sitting next to the wing looking out the window and I see fire coming out of it. And I say to the man next to me, I think the plane is on fire. I think the plane is on fire. And he looked out the window and he said, no, that's just, that's just the engine. I was so embarrassed. That was my first real travel was to California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything special in the summers while you're in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.767800396590552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had always studied Spanish. I started Spanish, well, I started with Latin in seventh and eighth grade and then Spanish through high school and Spanish through college. And I also took a semester of Italian, so I liked languages a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your four years of college, did you do any kind of volunteer work, any kind of travel, domestic, foreign?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I. No travel. And I didn't, I didn't travel at all because my family didn't have any money. Actually, in my sophomore year, I did travel. That's right. I got on a plane and came from Philadelphia out to California to visit a relative. And that was a really scary experience because I never been on a plane before and I'm sitting next to the wing looking out the window and I see fire coming out of it. And I say to the man next to me, I think the plane is on fire. I think the plane is on fire. And he looked out the window and he said, no, that's just, that's just the engine. I was so embarrassed. That was my first real travel was to California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything special in the summers while you're in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I got different jobs. I worked down in the, um, the Jersey Shore. I worked in a Dairy Queen, and I rode my bike from where a little apartment I rented. And I could ride my bike to the Dairy Queen to work and then ride back to the little apartment I rented. And it was a great job for me because I've always had a tremendous appetite and I could eat as much as I wanted in this Dairy Queen, which also sold hamburgers and hot dogs and a lot of things other than ice cream. So that was a fun job. I worked there several summers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back even before college. Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9108646871488295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I got different jobs. I worked down in the, um, the Jersey Shore. I worked in a Dairy Queen, and I rode my bike from where a little apartment I rented. And I could ride my bike to the Dairy Queen to work and then ride back to the little apartment I rented. And it was a great job for me because I've always had a tremendous appetite and I could eat as much as I wanted in this Dairy Queen, which also sold hamburgers and hot dogs and a lot of things other than ice cream. So that was a fun job. I worked there several summers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back even before college. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up outside of Philadelphia in a small suburban town called Secane. It's kind of near Swarthmore, near Swarthmore College. I was raised from the time I was four years old until I graduated from high school in Quaker schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from four years old to graduating from sixth grade was Lansdowne Friends School, and from seventh grade through 12th grade was Grand Central School in Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that because you were part of the Quaker church?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8282280088257155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So from four years old to graduating from sixth grade was Lansdowne Friends School, and from seventh grade through 12th grade was Grand Central School in Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that because you were part of the Quaker church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we weren't. We weren't Quaker. But the Quaker schools are always known to be very good schools. And my parents and aunts who lived in the area didn't like the schools where we lived. And so my aunts would help my parents support the three of us, our education in a private school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a brother and a sister, both older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And during your high school years, any travel, any special volunteer work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.364697787584128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we weren't. We weren't Quaker. But the Quaker schools are always known to be very good schools. And my parents and aunts who lived in the area didn't like the schools where we lived. And so my aunts would help my parents support the three of us, our education in a private school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a brother and a sister, both older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And during your high school years, any travel, any special volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No travel. I did, I did a lot of volunteer work. At a Quaker school, usually you have to do service projects. And so we, I chose to work at a hospital that was right very close to our school and served food to the patients. And whenever there was leftover food from, I would always finish it for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were very healthy teenager."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.96077531953792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a brother and a sister, both older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And during your high school years, any travel, any special volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No travel. I did, I did a lot of volunteer work. At a Quaker school, usually you have to do service projects. And so we, I chose to work at a hospital that was right very close to our school and served food to the patients. And whenever there was leftover food from, I would always finish it for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were very healthy teenager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very healthy with a very healthy appetite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go forward now. When you're in college, other than meeting with the trainees, do you recall when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.623083688375466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No travel. I did, I did a lot of volunteer work. At a Quaker school, usually you have to do service projects. And so we, I chose to work at a hospital that was right very close to our school and served food to the patients. And whenever there was leftover food from, I would always finish it for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were very healthy teenager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very healthy with a very healthy appetite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go forward now. When you're in college, other than meeting with the trainees, do you recall when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's the first time. That's really the first I knew of it. Meeting those trainees at lunch and just seeing their excitement and enthusiasm and sense of adventure, which just really blended with mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as you were going into your senior year in college, what was the kind of career path you decided for yourself, or had you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.247870764861629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very healthy with a very healthy appetite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go forward now. When you're in college, other than meeting with the trainees, do you recall when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's the first time. That's really the first I knew of it. Meeting those trainees at lunch and just seeing their excitement and enthusiasm and sense of adventure, which just really blended with mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as you were going into your senior year in college, what was the kind of career path you decided for yourself, or had you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was going to go to San Francisco and try and find some sort of a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was after you got your degree?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.713420697360036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was going to go to San Francisco and try and find some sort of a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was after you got your degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was definitely not. It was definitely not going to be teaching because everybody had always told me that they thought I'd be a really good teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knew the one thing I wouldn't do was going to be a teacher. I wasn't sure what I was going to do, but I was going to go to San Francisco because that sounded really exciting. And being from Philadelphia it was a long way away. And I needed to go. I needed to experience the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the process? You remember getting the application for the Peace Corps and filling it out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.189408268345722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I knew the one thing I wouldn't do was going to be a teacher. I wasn't sure what I was going to do, but I was going to go to San Francisco because that sounded really exciting. And being from Philadelphia it was a long way away. And I needed to go. I needed to experience the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the process? You remember getting the application for the Peace Corps and filling it out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember filling it out and it was a very long application and I remember that we had to have a lot of, um, people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six references."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of references. And I remember it taking a long, long time. And I remember when I did get accepted into the Peace Corps at the very, I think May, at the end of my senior year, it was May and I was so excited. I was, there was an article in the Penn State paper about me because I was the first student from Penn State University to go into the Peace Corps. And so they wrote an article and put it in the Penn State paper, and I was always very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall in the application, there used to be a place where you could indicate a preference for assignment. I'd like to go to this area, I wouldn't. Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.641244775735459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of references. And I remember it taking a long, long time. And I remember when I did get accepted into the Peace Corps at the very, I think May, at the end of my senior year, it was May and I was so excited. I was, there was an article in the Penn State paper about me because I was the first student from Penn State University to go into the Peace Corps. And so they wrote an article and put it in the Penn State paper, and I was always very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall in the application, there used to be a place where you could indicate a preference for assignment. I'd like to go to this area, I wouldn't. Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I recall that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put, I don't care. Anywhere, anywhere that's necessary that you need to send me is fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you indicated any proficiency in Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.3791608619282885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I recall that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put, I don't care. Anywhere, anywhere that's necessary that you need to send me is fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you indicated any proficiency in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably did. I probably did because I was, I mean, I had taken Spanish for three years in high school and four years in college. So I'm sure I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the point you sent in the application, did you have any other career options? I mean, you didn't know it was a done deal."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7725114704091744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really know what I was going to do. I didn't, you see, when I was going to. I graduated, I was to graduate in June. And my two aunts were going to give me a six week trip to Europe. And so my sister, who had graduated three years before me, my aunt, the two aunts, were going to give it to both of us. And so I was very looking forward to the six week trip in Europe after immediately after college graduation. And then I was going to figure out what I was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was 21 years old. You know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You kind of plan things day by day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you filled out the application, had you discussed it with your family or your friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.30279052267686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was 21 years old. You know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You kind of plan things day by day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you filled out the application, had you discussed it with your family or your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if I discussed it with my family. I'm sure I must have. I must have told them that I was sending in an application to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you don't off-hand remember their reaction initially?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.891989469640955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You kind of plan things day by day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you filled out the application, had you discussed it with your family or your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if I discussed it with my family. I'm sure I must have. I must have told them that I was sending in an application to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you don't off-hand remember their reaction initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the reaction. I remember their reaction when I was accepted. Their reaction was they were very pleased for me because I was a very outdoor person all my life. I was never in the house. I was always outside, climbing trees, riding the horse next door, milking cows next door, shoveling manure out of the barn. I was always outside working with the farmer next door and did not like to be inside much at all. And they knew that I had a very strong sense of adventure and I think were very pleased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In filling out the application, you had indicated that you grew up on a farm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.546654966267727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if I discussed it with my family. I'm sure I must have. I must have told them that I was sending in an application to join the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you don't off-hand remember their reaction initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the reaction. I remember their reaction when I was accepted. Their reaction was they were very pleased for me because I was a very outdoor person all my life. I was never in the house. I was always outside, climbing trees, riding the horse next door, milking cows next door, shoveling manure out of the barn. I was always outside working with the farmer next door and did not like to be inside much at all. And they knew that I had a very strong sense of adventure and I think were very pleased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In filling out the application, you had indicated that you grew up on a farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I didn't. I grew up next to one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right. And you received an invitation to training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.274061073630808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the reaction. I remember their reaction when I was accepted. Their reaction was they were very pleased for me because I was a very outdoor person all my life. I was never in the house. I was always outside, climbing trees, riding the horse next door, milking cows next door, shoveling manure out of the barn. I was always outside working with the farmer next door and did not like to be inside much at all. And they knew that I had a very strong sense of adventure and I think were very pleased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In filling out the application, you had indicated that you grew up on a farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because I didn't. I grew up next to one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right. And you received an invitation to training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what it said?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.980322313124454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what it said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I recall that it said your, you've been accepted for service in the country of Guatemala. And I remember thinking, Guatemala? Where's Guatemala? Where's the map? Before I can tell anybody, I need to know where Guatemala is. So it was, it was very exciting. And once I found out where Guatemala was, I was thrilled. It wasn't very far away. But I mean, that was okay. I kind of in my head, I thought I would be going somewhere further away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but it was okay. It wasn't, it wasn't a disappointment. It was okay. Any place was going to be okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was this before graduation or about the same time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.867024792360503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I recall that it said your, you've been accepted for service in the country of Guatemala. And I remember thinking, Guatemala? Where's Guatemala? Where's the map? Before I can tell anybody, I need to know where Guatemala is. So it was, it was very exciting. And once I found out where Guatemala was, I was thrilled. It wasn't very far away. But I mean, that was okay. I kind of in my head, I thought I would be going somewhere further away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but it was okay. It wasn't, it wasn't a disappointment. It was okay. Any place was going to be okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was this before graduation or about the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was about a month before graduation. I received, I received the information in May and I graduated in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was, where were you to report?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.997294303247222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Puerto Rico for training. We were going to go to Puerto Rico for training. We're going to train in Puerto Rico. And then we were going to go to Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what happened was there was an epidemic of dengue fever in Puerto Rico in August. So the day before we were to leave to go to Puerto Rico, we received a cable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Telegram."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A telegram that said, do not go to Puerto Rico, epidemic dengue fever, wait for further instructions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reaction at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.88588255916358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what happened was there was an epidemic of dengue fever in Puerto Rico in August. So the day before we were to leave to go to Puerto Rico, we received a cable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Telegram."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A telegram that said, do not go to Puerto Rico, epidemic dengue fever, wait for further instructions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reaction at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went, dengue fever, what's that? And darn. Darn, you know. We had made it home from Europe. We had taken the six week trip from Europe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had done the six week?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.797385875510593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went, dengue fever, what's that? And darn. Darn, you know. We had made it home from Europe. We had taken the six week trip from Europe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had done the six week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So we did the six week trip in Europe and got home in mid-August. And I think I was supposed to go something like August 24th or 25th, something like that. So we got home in time, we're all ready to go, and then got this cable telegram that said, no, don't go. And then very soon we got another one that said, you'll be reporting in Las Cruces, New Mexico. And that was kind of a disappointment from Puerto Rico to New Mexico. I thought, oh, darn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you made the sacrifice I thought you were sacrificing by giving up the Europe trip, but you did the Europe trip."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.330428750567325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So we did the six week trip in Europe and got home in mid-August. And I think I was supposed to go something like August 24th or 25th, something like that. So we got home in time, we're all ready to go, and then got this cable telegram that said, no, don't go. And then very soon we got another one that said, you'll be reporting in Las Cruces, New Mexico. And that was kind of a disappointment from Puerto Rico to New Mexico. I thought, oh, darn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you made the sacrifice I thought you were sacrificing by giving up the Europe trip, but you did the Europe trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Yes, we did the Europe trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your sensitivity to being in another part of the world heightened because you were about to go in the Peace Corps, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.35855401304608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Yes, we did the Europe trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your sensitivity to being in another part of the world heightened because you were about to go in the Peace Corps, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I was just so excited to be on the road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that trip to Europe with my sister at 21 and a 24 year old, you know, two young women on the loose. We had been in private schools all our life, very small classes. And here we are in all of Europe on our own. And it was a really fun, fun trip and I was very excited about to be coming home from that also because then I'd be going to Guatemala, so it would be a continuation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were there any great departing parties by your peers? By your families?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.842837792273421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I was just so excited to be on the road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that trip to Europe with my sister at 21 and a 24 year old, you know, two young women on the loose. We had been in private schools all our life, very small classes. And here we are in all of Europe on our own. And it was a really fun, fun trip and I was very excited about to be coming home from that also because then I'd be going to Guatemala, so it would be a continuation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were there any great departing parties by your peers? By your families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you then flew from Philadelphia to Las Cruces."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.380930880303802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that trip to Europe with my sister at 21 and a 24 year old, you know, two young women on the loose. We had been in private schools all our life, very small classes. And here we are in all of Europe on our own. And it was a really fun, fun trip and I was very excited about to be coming home from that also because then I'd be going to Guatemala, so it would be a continuation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were there any great departing parties by your peers? By your families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you then flew from Philadelphia to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Las Cruces, New Mexico, and we trained there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where, at the University of New Mexico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.978812089226446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you then flew from Philadelphia to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Las Cruces, New Mexico, and we trained there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where, at the University of New Mexico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the University of New Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.532013432473829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Las Cruces, New Mexico, and we trained there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where, at the University of New Mexico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the University of New Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Is it New Mexico State University? I think it's New Mexico State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be, yeah, but it's in Las Cruces."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.146681591637588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the University of New Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Is it New Mexico State University? I think it's New Mexico State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be, yeah, but it's in Las Cruces."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Las Cruces, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Usually when you first arrived, there's a general orientation and a gathering of people. Do you recall your reaction to this group? I mean, now you're in the midst of all these."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.366273569922948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Las Cruces, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Usually when you first arrived, there's a general orientation and a gathering of people. Do you recall your reaction to this group? I mean, now you're in the midst of all these."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I recall we, uh, I flew into, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Albuquerque?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably Albuquerque and took a bus from Albuquerque to Las Cruces, and we were supposed to meet in the student union in the, at the university. And I remember on that bus ride getting off the plane, going on the bus, there was another young person and it turned out he was going to be a Peace Corps volunteer also, Dave Siebert. And he was adorable. He was from, he was from California, from San Diego, California. He was a surfer. He was all tanned. And he was just, he was just fresh graduated from college and he was so cute. And I thought, wow. This is neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spoke to him on the bus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.962526188803275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I recall we, uh, I flew into, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Albuquerque?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably Albuquerque and took a bus from Albuquerque to Las Cruces, and we were supposed to meet in the student union in the, at the university. And I remember on that bus ride getting off the plane, going on the bus, there was another young person and it turned out he was going to be a Peace Corps volunteer also, Dave Siebert. And he was adorable. He was from, he was from California, from San Diego, California. He was a surfer. He was all tanned. And he was just, he was just fresh graduated from college and he was so cute. And I thought, wow. This is neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spoke to him on the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so we spoke to him. Somehow we connected that we were both going to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your first impression was highly favorable?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1265755417324375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so we spoke to him. Somehow we connected that we were both going to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your first impression was highly favorable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first impression was highly favorable. And then when we got to the university and went down into the student union, there was this other really cute man, and he was sitting there drinking a chocolate milkshake. And I walked over to him totally not knowing who he was, but he was sitting at the Peace Corps area and I said, can I have a sip of your milkshake? And he said, yes. Nine months later, I married him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's foreshadowing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About approximately how many people were in the training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.807306157480486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first impression was highly favorable. And then when we got to the university and went down into the student union, there was this other really cute man, and he was sitting there drinking a chocolate milkshake. And I walked over to him totally not knowing who he was, but he was sitting at the Peace Corps area and I said, can I have a sip of your milkshake? And he said, yes. Nine months later, I married him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's foreshadowing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About approximately how many people were in the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was 62 of us. I think there was 62 of us in our group. And so we started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All for Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.169513774667266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there was 62 of us. I think there was 62 of us in our group. And so we started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All for Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All for Guatemala. Guatemala III. We were the third group to go to Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that there were 62 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Men, women, 50-50?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.510992832191037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, men and women, maybe 50-50. There was one couple in their sixties. There was a single woman who was 63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a man, Doug, who was in his early thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most everybody else was fresh out of college or maybe had one year out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But and most has a similar background to yours, a liberal arts college degree?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.90110314687893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a man, Doug, who was in his early thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most everybody else was fresh out of college or maybe had one year out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But and most has a similar background to yours, a liberal arts college degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Because we were all community development, so we were all a group of people that didn't really know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't know anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3345590520877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And most everybody else was fresh out of college or maybe had one year out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But and most has a similar background to yours, a liberal arts college degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Because we were all community development, so we were all a group of people that didn't really know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't know anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything. I know. And I was wondering, what am I going to do? I don't really know anything, but everybody kept saying community development. That's okay. You don't really need to know anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training now begins in Las Cruces and generally has several components, one of which would be area studies, another technical studies, another language. So let's talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.816176724541888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Because we were all community development, so we were all a group of people that didn't really know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't know anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything. I know. And I was wondering, what am I going to do? I don't really know anything, but everybody kept saying community development. That's okay. You don't really need to know anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training now begins in Las Cruces and generally has several components, one of which would be area studies, another technical studies, another language. So let's talk about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Home ec."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Talk about how that was organized."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.351307471713209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything. I know. And I was wondering, what am I going to do? I don't really know anything, but everybody kept saying community development. That's okay. You don't really need to know anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training now begins in Las Cruces and generally has several components, one of which would be area studies, another technical studies, another language. So let's talk about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Home ec."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Talk about how that was organized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I'll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Home ec, obviously, you still, talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.723674968570232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Home ec."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Talk about how that was organized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I'll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Home ec, obviously, you still, talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First, let me talk about home ec because our teacher was Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, head of a cow, Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, and she was a tiny woman. She looked to me very old, remember I was 21 years old. She looked to be very old. She probably wasn't more than 45 or 50, but she looked to be really old and she was very mean and strict. And I had never sewed anything in my life because my mother hated sewing. And our first project that we had to do in home ec class was we had to make a piece of clothing for ourself without a pattern, and I had not a clue what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was from early on in training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.137416631744702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I'll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Home ec, obviously, you still, talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First, let me talk about home ec because our teacher was Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, head of a cow, Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, and she was a tiny woman. She looked to me very old, remember I was 21 years old. She looked to be very old. She probably wasn't more than 45 or 50, but she looked to be really old and she was very mean and strict. And I had never sewed anything in my life because my mother hated sewing. And our first project that we had to do in home ec class was we had to make a piece of clothing for ourself without a pattern, and I had not a clue what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was from early on in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, from early on in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious, what was the class for both men and women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.107921767586052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, from early on in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious, what was the class for both men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for men and women. Everybody. Everybody had to sew. You had to sew a piece of clothing. And I didn't have a clue what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think about that again. Maybe men, maybe men weren't there, because I was really the only one that was so overwhelmed by this. It seemed all the other women knew how to run a sewing machine, how to thread it and do all that stuff, and they knew how to cut stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed that way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4532464084289463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for men and women. Everybody. Everybody had to sew. You had to sew a piece of clothing. And I didn't have a clue what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think about that again. Maybe men, maybe men weren't there, because I was really the only one that was so overwhelmed by this. It seemed all the other women knew how to run a sewing machine, how to thread it and do all that stuff, and they knew how to cut stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed that way. And I mean, I was almost in tears most of the days because Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, we had to call Senora Cabeza de Vaca, was not at all friendly and she did not like me at all because I didn't know how to sew. And so I ended up making a blouse that was like just cut square. So it just had a bottom. And then it came up and then it went out and had arms and then it came straight across her neck. And I cut out two pieces of material from red and white gingham, red and white gingham checkered material, and sewed them together and turned it inside out and put it on. And I passed the project, but it was a very frustrating experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there any, within the whole context of training, was there any rationale for teaching home economics?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.83694045380994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me think about that again. Maybe men, maybe men weren't there, because I was really the only one that was so overwhelmed by this. It seemed all the other women knew how to run a sewing machine, how to thread it and do all that stuff, and they knew how to cut stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed that way. And I mean, I was almost in tears most of the days because Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, we had to call Senora Cabeza de Vaca, was not at all friendly and she did not like me at all because I didn't know how to sew. And so I ended up making a blouse that was like just cut square. So it just had a bottom. And then it came up and then it went out and had arms and then it came straight across her neck. And I cut out two pieces of material from red and white gingham, red and white gingham checkered material, and sewed them together and turned it inside out and put it on. And I passed the project, but it was a very frustrating experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there any, within the whole context of training, was there any rationale for teaching home economics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because, because we were women and I thought they thought probably, you know, we might want to make some of our own clothes down there or teach some of the native people how to make some clothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you didn't know how to sew."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.263267170899933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed that way. And I mean, I was almost in tears most of the days because Mrs. Cabeza de Vaca, we had to call Senora Cabeza de Vaca, was not at all friendly and she did not like me at all because I didn't know how to sew. And so I ended up making a blouse that was like just cut square. So it just had a bottom. And then it came up and then it went out and had arms and then it came straight across her neck. And I cut out two pieces of material from red and white gingham, red and white gingham checkered material, and sewed them together and turned it inside out and put it on. And I passed the project, but it was a very frustrating experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there any, within the whole context of training, was there any rationale for teaching home economics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because, because we were women and I thought they thought probably, you know, we might want to make some of our own clothes down there or teach some of the native people how to make some clothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you didn't know how to sew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I didn't know how to sew, but many of the other people did. So it was just a component. It was, it was the most challenging for me. It was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's jump to probably one of the key parts of training, which would be language. How was the language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6258524121110365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because, because we were women and I thought they thought probably, you know, we might want to make some of our own clothes down there or teach some of the native people how to make some clothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you didn't know how to sew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I didn't know how to sew, but many of the other people did. So it was just a component. It was, it was the most challenging for me. It was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's jump to probably one of the key parts of training, which would be language. How was the language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. We had, we had to speak Spanish at all meals. We had, I think it was about 4 hours a day of Spanish language training and at the meals. And that was fun for me because I had studied Spanish a lot. And so I liked that. But for a lot of people, that was very challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many in the group had never spoken Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.917613791234485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I didn't know how to sew, but many of the other people did. So it was just a component. It was, it was the most challenging for me. It was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's jump to probably one of the key parts of training, which would be language. How was the language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. We had, we had to speak Spanish at all meals. We had, I think it was about 4 hours a day of Spanish language training and at the meals. And that was fun for me because I had studied Spanish a lot. And so I liked that. But for a lot of people, that was very challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many in the group had never spoken Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Many in the group had never spoken Spanish. The man whose milkshake I'd shared, he had never done Spanish before. He had studied French in high school, in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the training staff indicate that you would be expected to be working in Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2417931013716497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. We had, we had to speak Spanish at all meals. We had, I think it was about 4 hours a day of Spanish language training and at the meals. And that was fun for me because I had studied Spanish a lot. And so I liked that. But for a lot of people, that was very challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many in the group had never spoken Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Many in the group had never spoken Spanish. The man whose milkshake I'd shared, he had never done Spanish before. He had studied French in high school, in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the training staff indicate that you would be expected to be working in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when we got to Guatemala, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was clear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6019923348573886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Many in the group had never spoken Spanish. The man whose milkshake I'd shared, he had never done Spanish before. He had studied French in high school, in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the training staff indicate that you would be expected to be working in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when we got to Guatemala, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was clear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was very clear. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The second part of that was, was it implied that you had to get to a certain level in Spanish or you might not go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.446904117107887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was very clear. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The second part of that was, was it implied that you had to get to a certain level in Spanish or you might not go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was not implied, to my knowledge. To my knowledge, because that was never an issue with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't remember. And when people were, quote, selected out, they weren't selected out because of insufficient language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to selection. Another area tends to be area studies, to learn something about Guatemala."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.941004574564318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was not implied, to my knowledge. To my knowledge, because that was never an issue with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't remember. And when people were, quote, selected out, they weren't selected out because of insufficient language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to selection. Another area tends to be area studies, to learn something about Guatemala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The history, the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.490005082849242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't remember. And when people were, quote, selected out, they weren't selected out because of insufficient language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get to selection. Another area tends to be area studies, to learn something about Guatemala."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The history, the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was teaching it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.100005647610269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The history, the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was teaching it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People from the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any Guatemalans involved in the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.444450719566966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was teaching it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People from the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any Guatemalans involved in the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was Tony. But Tony was. He was from the States. He was Mexican-American but living in the States. He did some stuff with us. I don't remember that there were any people from Guatemala there. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the project had already been in Guatemala for a few years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7160563550744063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People from the university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any Guatemalans involved in the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was Tony. But Tony was. He was from the States. He was Mexican-American but living in the States. He did some stuff with us. I don't remember that there were any people from Guatemala there. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the project had already been in Guatemala for a few years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for two years, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there any people, returned volunteers, at the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.017840394527118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was Tony. But Tony was. He was from the States. He was Mexican-American but living in the States. He did some stuff with us. I don't remember that there were any people from Guatemala there. I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the project had already been in Guatemala for a few years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for two years, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there any people, returned volunteers, at the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.35315599391902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, for two years, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there any people, returned volunteers, at the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point in the training, did anyone come out from Washington?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7257288821322443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point in the training, did anyone come out from Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.139698757924716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point in the training, did anyone come out from Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall who, but I believe they did. When we. When we talk about the selection out, I think that's when they came out, at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay, we'll get to that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.599665286583018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall who, but I believe they did. When we. When we talk about the selection out, I think that's when they came out, at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay, we'll get to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, that's, I think that's the only time I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, and as far as technical studies are concerned, other than home ec, did anyone in training try to define what it is you would be doing when you got to Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.777405873981131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall who, but I believe they did. When we. When we talk about the selection out, I think that's when they came out, at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay, we'll get to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, that's, I think that's the only time I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, and as far as technical studies are concerned, other than home ec, did anyone in training try to define what it is you would be doing when you got to Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They taught, we had a lot of like animal husbandry. They taught us how to kill a lot of animals because they wanted us to raise animals. They said that in Guatemala, people's income is very, very low and they encouraged especially the men to get involved with raising chickens. So they taught a lot about chickens and pigs and they showed us how to kill a pig to cook it. And they talked about raising rabbits. One man in our group, the older man who was 65, I think 65 or 67 maybe, and his wife was 65. They were rabbit raisers from somewhere in the States. They may have come from Texas. And that was going to be their assignment. They were going to be raising rabbits for meat, a source of protein. So we were, we were to try and get people to raise animals as a source of protein and to better their income."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have had some inhibitions about killing animals."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1943282394828776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They taught, we had a lot of like animal husbandry. They taught us how to kill a lot of animals because they wanted us to raise animals. They said that in Guatemala, people's income is very, very low and they encouraged especially the men to get involved with raising chickens. So they taught a lot about chickens and pigs and they showed us how to kill a pig to cook it. And they talked about raising rabbits. One man in our group, the older man who was 65, I think 65 or 67 maybe, and his wife was 65. They were rabbit raisers from somewhere in the States. They may have come from Texas. And that was going to be their assignment. They were going to be raising rabbits for meat, a source of protein. So we were, we were to try and get people to raise animals as a source of protein and to better their income."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have had some inhibitions about killing animals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have to do it. The men did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were teaching. I think while we women were in there sewing, yeah, the men were learning how to kill the pigs and raise chickens and kill the rabbits. And proper concentrate, proper feed for the, whatever animal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall that as part of your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4381424883143086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have to do it. The men did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were teaching. I think while we women were in there sewing, yeah, the men were learning how to kill the pigs and raise chickens and kill the rabbits. And proper concentrate, proper feed for the, whatever animal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall that as part of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think it was part of my training. I remember being involved in it because everybody was kind of talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7090472092381206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were teaching. I think while we women were in there sewing, yeah, the men were learning how to kill the pigs and raise chickens and kill the rabbits. And proper concentrate, proper feed for the, whatever animal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall that as part of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think it was part of my training. I remember being involved in it because everybody was kind of talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there anything about the theory and practice of community development?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.010052454709023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think it was part of my training. I remember being involved in it because everybody was kind of talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there anything about the theory and practice of community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. They told us about. What we needed to do when we got there was learn to know who were the leaders in the town. And once we could figure out who the leaders were, then we needed to get a betterment committee together with these leaders. And then we were to set up meetings so that this committee would meet once a week or once every ten days or once every two weeks. And then we were to find out what kinds of things they wanted to do to better their village and what kinds of things we might slip in seeing from our point of view, what might be some of the things that would help their community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at this point in training, were you at all intimidated with the idea that you were going to go and do all this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.34450272745447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there anything about the theory and practice of community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. They told us about. What we needed to do when we got there was learn to know who were the leaders in the town. And once we could figure out who the leaders were, then we needed to get a betterment committee together with these leaders. And then we were to set up meetings so that this committee would meet once a week or once every ten days or once every two weeks. And then we were to find out what kinds of things they wanted to do to better their village and what kinds of things we might slip in seeing from our point of view, what might be some of the things that would help their community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at this point in training, were you at all intimidated with the idea that you were going to go and do all this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt you could."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7161141416160777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. They told us about. What we needed to do when we got there was learn to know who were the leaders in the town. And once we could figure out who the leaders were, then we needed to get a betterment committee together with these leaders. And then we were to set up meetings so that this committee would meet once a week or once every ten days or once every two weeks. And then we were to find out what kinds of things they wanted to do to better their village and what kinds of things we might slip in seeing from our point of view, what might be some of the things that would help their community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at this point in training, were you at all intimidated with the idea that you were going to go and do all this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt you could."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt the process was valid that you're describing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.129015712906753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was young."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt you could."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt the process was valid that you're describing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I felt it was okay. It seemed okay. You find the community leaders and you set up a committee. That all sounded doable. It sounded doable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to, before we go to selection. Was the training seven days a week or did you have a chance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3655730143408373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt the process was valid that you're describing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I felt it was okay. It seemed okay. You find the community leaders and you set up a committee. That all sounded doable. It sounded doable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to, before we go to selection. Was the training seven days a week or did you have a chance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Sunday we didn't. Yeah, Sunday we didn't because we would take trips together. Groups of us would go. We'd go to the White Sands and yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you encouraged to go in to Las Cruces and seek out Spanish speakers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6284144603787083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I felt it was okay. It seemed okay. You find the community leaders and you set up a committee. That all sounded doable. It sounded doable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to, before we go to selection. Was the training seven days a week or did you have a chance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Sunday we didn't. Yeah, Sunday we didn't because we would take trips together. Groups of us would go. We'd go to the White Sands and yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you encouraged to go in to Las Cruces and seek out Spanish speakers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all went in to Las Cruces to the bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The bars. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.809349400420787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Sunday we didn't. Yeah, Sunday we didn't because we would take trips together. Groups of us would go. We'd go to the White Sands and yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you encouraged to go in to Las Cruces and seek out Spanish speakers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all went in to Las Cruces to the bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The bars. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But no, we weren't necessarily encouraged to seek out Spanish speakers and speak Spanish. We were so tired of speaking Spanish after 4 hours every day and at all the meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you tested midpoint as they sometimes they use the Foreign Service Reserve test?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0103882226897634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we all went in to Las Cruces to the bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The bars. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But no, we weren't necessarily encouraged to seek out Spanish speakers and speak Spanish. We were so tired of speaking Spanish after 4 hours every day and at all the meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you tested midpoint as they sometimes they use the Foreign Service Reserve test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were only tested at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get an FSR number?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.122653580766404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But no, we weren't necessarily encouraged to seek out Spanish speakers and speak Spanish. We were so tired of speaking Spanish after 4 hours every day and at all the meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you tested midpoint as they sometimes they use the Foreign Service Reserve test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were only tested at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get an FSR number?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got FS-3. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That which is quite high."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2473928675182266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were only tested at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get an FSR number?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got FS-3. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That which is quite high."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That was yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5399911944669462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That was yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So everybody was tested. And then we were tested again at the end of Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7111013271854958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So everybody was tested. And then we were tested again at the end of Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be. Now, let's talk about the selection process."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1124707743030813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be. Now, let's talk about the selection process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The selection out process. I hated that expression, going to be selected out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very stressful time. People, a group of people came from Washington. I'm sorry. Go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you, did you have to go through psychiatric interviews?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3471897492256457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The selection out process. I hated that expression, going to be selected out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very stressful time. People, a group of people came from Washington. I'm sorry. Go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you, did you have to go through psychiatric interviews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everyone in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6079886102507173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very stressful time. People, a group of people came from Washington. I'm sorry. Go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were you, did you have to go through psychiatric interviews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everyone in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everyone in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reaction? I mean, I mean, it must have been somewhat new."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.219739025000885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everyone in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your reaction? I mean, I mean, it must have been somewhat new."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was all those inkblot, inkblot tests, the inkblot things. They show you an inkblot and tell you what it reminds you of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You get an interview about why do you, why do you want to do this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.907390679775773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember, yeah. They asked us a lot of questions. It's really hard to remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't thought about it. Yeah, no, but they, they did. They asked, they asked us a lot of questions because I remember that, because I was really silly. I had a lot of energy and I was very silly and I knew everybody said these people are serious and I knew I had to be kind of serious. I couldn't just be myself. I had to be well behaved. And it was scary. I mean, it was a scary thing. I don't remember exactly what questions they asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember talking with them for a while. More than anything I remember the inkblot tests and I kept being afraid of, God, am I seeing something wrong in this ink?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they ask you to do peer ratings, where you'd indicate who you'd like to be assigned with? Or who you thought wouldn't be good in the project? Did they do it? It wasn't in every program."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.823939110834288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember talking with them for a while. More than anything I remember the inkblot tests and I kept being afraid of, God, am I seeing something wrong in this ink?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did they ask you to do peer ratings, where you'd indicate who you'd like to be assigned with? Or who you thought wouldn't be good in the project? Did they do it? It wasn't in every program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I told them that I wanted to be assigned with Mike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That man with the milkshake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The milkshake guy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.359932345371431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I told them that I wanted to be assigned with Mike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That man with the milkshake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The milkshake guy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, milkshake guy. And they said, absolutely not. We are separating you two as far as we can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is near the end of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.955480383746034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That man with the milkshake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The milkshake guy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, milkshake guy. And they said, absolutely not. We are separating you two as far as we can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is near the end of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it? So now the training program is coming to an end. And so the final selection occurred?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.39497820416226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, milkshake guy. And they said, absolutely not. We are separating you two as far as we can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is near the end of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it? So now the training program is coming to an end. And so the final selection occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, before the training process came to the end, we went to Mexico for two, for two weeks I think we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that structured?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.772198004624733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it? So now the training program is coming to an end. And so the final selection occurred?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, before the training process came to the end, we went to Mexico for two, for two weeks I think we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that structured?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were sent in groups to different areas. And Mike and I were in the same group and Mike was a size 15 shoe. And one thing I remember is in Mexico, being in a central square in this little, in very far in the state of Chihuahua in northern Mexico. We were in a little town and all these children came running over and they're all standing around pointing at Mike's feet because he has these great big shoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the Spanish word for Big Foot?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.191331116249703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, before the training process came to the end, we went to Mexico for two, for two weeks I think we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that structured?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were sent in groups to different areas. And Mike and I were in the same group and Mike was a size 15 shoe. And one thing I remember is in Mexico, being in a central square in this little, in very far in the state of Chihuahua in northern Mexico. We were in a little town and all these children came running over and they're all standing around pointing at Mike's feet because he has these great big shoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the Spanish word for Big Foot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so that's a very vivid memory of our time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were taken to the village and you would be there for two weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.657034573610781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were sent in groups to different areas. And Mike and I were in the same group and Mike was a size 15 shoe. And one thing I remember is in Mexico, being in a central square in this little, in very far in the state of Chihuahua in northern Mexico. We were in a little town and all these children came running over and they're all standing around pointing at Mike's feet because he has these great big shoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the Spanish word for Big Foot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so that's a very vivid memory of our time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were taken to the village and you would be there for two weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were to stay there, right, for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular agenda?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.174482859567535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so that's a very vivid memory of our time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were taken to the village and you would be there for two weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were to stay there, right, for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular agenda?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed, we stayed with, um. Yeah. We were supposed to learn the language. We were supposed to practice. That's where we were to practice our Spanish. Not in Las Cruces in the bar, but in northern Mexico, in the state of Chihuahua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were given families?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.749425399519483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were to stay there, right, for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular agenda?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed, we stayed with, um. Yeah. We were supposed to learn the language. We were supposed to practice. That's where we were to practice our Spanish. Not in Las Cruces in the bar, but in northern Mexico, in the state of Chihuahua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were given families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were given, we were given families to stay with. And I, I don't remember. I don't. I don't remember. I don't remember so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright. So two weeks in Mexico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.388250443910536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed, we stayed with, um. Yeah. We were supposed to learn the language. We were supposed to practice. That's where we were to practice our Spanish. Not in Las Cruces in the bar, but in northern Mexico, in the state of Chihuahua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were given families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were given, we were given families to stay with. And I, I don't remember. I don't. I don't remember. I don't remember so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright. So two weeks in Mexico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you're back to Las Cruces."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.098056048789484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were given, we were given families to stay with. And I, I don't remember. I don't. I don't remember. I don't remember so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright. So two weeks in Mexico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you're back to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And training is coming to an end."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.775617831988315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you're back to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And training is coming to an end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was coming to an end. But before the training comes to an end, we have JFK's assassination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay. Yeah, tell me about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.528464257764795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to Las Cruces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And training is coming to an end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was coming to an end. But before the training comes to an end, we have JFK's assassination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay. Yeah, tell me about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So JFK's assassination happened. They announced on the loudspeaker at New Mexico State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. That must have had an incredible impact."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.364960286405328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was coming to an end. But before the training comes to an end, we have JFK's assassination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay. Yeah, tell me about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So JFK's assassination happened. They announced on the loudspeaker at New Mexico State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. That must have had an incredible impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You want to stop for a minute?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.294400318228142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So JFK's assassination happened. They announced on the loudspeaker at New Mexico State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. That must have had an incredible impact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You want to stop for a minute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk as much as you want about the assassination."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.993778131364602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You want to stop for a minute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk as much as you want about the assassination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, I'll talk about what I, what I remember most was it was between classes. So a group of us, Mike, myself, Tim Craft, a really good friend of ours, Stu Ogletree, the four of us were walking together across the lawn, going to our next building, which I think was the culture class. And they announced on the loudspeaker that John F. Kennedy has just been shot. And I remember we just all dropped, just dropped right down there on the grass on the lawn, and so did so many other people. Just sat down and went, what, what? You know? And then it was just everybody was going crazy, well, what's happening, what's happening? And I mean, it was a really very emotional time for all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was training suspended for a while or did it continue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.770864590405113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk as much as you want about the assassination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, I'll talk about what I, what I remember most was it was between classes. So a group of us, Mike, myself, Tim Craft, a really good friend of ours, Stu Ogletree, the four of us were walking together across the lawn, going to our next building, which I think was the culture class. And they announced on the loudspeaker that John F. Kennedy has just been shot. And I remember we just all dropped, just dropped right down there on the grass on the lawn, and so did so many other people. Just sat down and went, what, what? You know? And then it was just everybody was going crazy, well, what's happening, what's happening? And I mean, it was a really very emotional time for all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was training suspended for a while or did it continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't suspended. No, it was not suspended at all. But instead of being the culture, we all were venting our feelings and discussing that. So actually, it was, it was a very good thing for us because we could be together and we could talk with a mature adult who could help, could help us a bit, you know, guide our thoughts and our reflections and our feelings and what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you were in touch with your family at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.59365998815446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't suspended. No, it was not suspended at all. But instead of being the culture, we all were venting our feelings and discussing that. So actually, it was, it was a very good thing for us because we could be together and we could talk with a mature adult who could help, could help us a bit, you know, guide our thoughts and our reflections and our feelings and what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you were in touch with your family at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It was much more important to me being in touch with our other, our group of trainees, because we were the ones who were so moved by JFK that inspired us to be there in the first place. And those were the best people to be together with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then the training continues then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 10.659622209060512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It was much more important to me being in touch with our other, our group of trainees, because we were the ones who were so moved by JFK that inspired us to be there in the first place. And those were the best people to be together with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then the training continues then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then training continued, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we come up to the excruciating final selection."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.066246898956125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. It was much more important to me being in touch with our other, our group of trainees, because we were the ones who were so moved by JFK that inspired us to be there in the first place. And those were the best people to be together with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then the training continues then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then training continued, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we come up to the excruciating final selection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which was terrible, which was just before Christmas. We, we finished our, our session. Our training session finished in December, somewhere around December 15. And then we were all on two weeks vacation. We all went home to our families. And then after Christmas on January 1st or January 2nd, we then went to Guatemala. So our training. [tape break] Was when they told us some of the people that were selected out and we could not believe it. One of our, Mike's and my very best friend, was selected out. Stu Ogletree from Chicago, a wonderful guy. And we never, never, never understood why he was selected out. We had no reason at all. Some other people were selected out and we, I mean, that seemed okay. We could see something. But Stu, he was just great and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware that in '63, were they still doing FBI background checks as part of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.51805210995125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then training continued, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we come up to the excruciating final selection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which was terrible, which was just before Christmas. We, we finished our, our session. Our training session finished in December, somewhere around December 15. And then we were all on two weeks vacation. We all went home to our families. And then after Christmas on January 1st or January 2nd, we then went to Guatemala. So our training. [tape break] Was when they told us some of the people that were selected out and we could not believe it. One of our, Mike's and my very best friend, was selected out. Stu Ogletree from Chicago, a wonderful guy. And we never, never, never understood why he was selected out. We had no reason at all. Some other people were selected out and we, I mean, that seemed okay. We could see something. But Stu, he was just great and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware that in '63, were they still doing FBI background checks as part of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. They were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did friends of yours call your family or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7978356777236106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, which was terrible, which was just before Christmas. We, we finished our, our session. Our training session finished in December, somewhere around December 15. And then we were all on two weeks vacation. We all went home to our families. And then after Christmas on January 1st or January 2nd, we then went to Guatemala. So our training. [tape break] Was when they told us some of the people that were selected out and we could not believe it. One of our, Mike's and my very best friend, was selected out. Stu Ogletree from Chicago, a wonderful guy. And we never, never, never understood why he was selected out. We had no reason at all. Some other people were selected out and we, I mean, that seemed okay. We could see something. But Stu, he was just great and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware that in '63, were they still doing FBI background checks as part of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. They were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did friends of yours call your family or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They, all of my references were checked. Every person that I had put down was checked. It took almost a full year for the selection process from, I mean, it was almost a full year from when I sent in that application to May of 1963 when I was accepted. Almost a full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were aware that you were being checked on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1087063085817896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. They were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did friends of yours call your family or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They, all of my references were checked. Every person that I had put down was checked. It took almost a full year for the selection process from, I mean, it was almost a full year from when I sent in that application to May of 1963 when I was accepted. Almost a full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were aware that you were being checked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I asked my people and they said, oh yes. So they were checking on everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't find out anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4541181206464326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they did. They, all of my references were checked. Every person that I had put down was checked. It took almost a full year for the selection process from, I mean, it was almost a full year from when I sent in that application to May of 1963 when I was accepted. Almost a full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were aware that you were being checked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I asked my people and they said, oh yes. So they were checking on everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't find out anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all well-hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you made it through selection."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.837909022940481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I asked my people and they said, oh yes. So they were checking on everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't find out anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all well-hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you made it through selection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As did the chocolate sipper?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6270481764697298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As did the chocolate sipper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The chocolate milkshaker and the surfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't make it through the two years, but he made it through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, about how many were left in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.030053529410811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The chocolate milkshaker and the surfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't make it through the two years, but he made it through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, about how many were left in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you started with 62."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4778372549009005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't make it through the two years, but he made it through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, about how many were left in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you started with 62."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think, I think there were about five or six people that were selected out. So we had about 57."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point, now you're going home for two weeks of leave. Did you have any clear idea of what you would be doing once you got to Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.528194141852963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think, I think there were about five or six people that were selected out. So we had about 57."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point, now you're going home for two weeks of leave. Did you have any clear idea of what you would be doing once you got to Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, all we knew is community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Theoretically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody had come out from Peace Corps, Washington Peace Corps, Guatemala to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.602708817102424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody had come out from Peace Corps, Washington Peace Corps, Guatemala to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than the psychologists?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, not that I remember, Bob. Some people's memories are much better than mine. I've been filled with 128 countries in my head and filled with 60 different slideshows. And I've pushed out a lot of stuff from the older days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two weeks at home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.571245453212869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, not that I remember, Bob. Some people's memories are much better than mine. I've been filled with 128 countries in my head and filled with 60 different slideshows. And I've pushed out a lot of stuff from the older days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two weeks at home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two weeks at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Parties. Seeing lots of people who lived in New York came down to meet my parents and spend a little time in my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you engaged?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.532401794089962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Parties. Seeing lots of people who lived in New York came down to meet my parents and spend a little time in my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you engaged?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we weren't engaged, but we were seeing each other a lot. At one time, you see, I liked both the surfer and Mike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at one time Mike said to me, look, who's it going to be, Dave or me? And I said, I don't know. And he said, well, you need to decide. And I said, okay, let me walk around the block this way, and you walk around that block that way. So we walked around and then we met on the other side of the block and I said, it's you. And he said, okay, then you need to tell Dave. I said, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the two weeks at home were kind of fun."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9248908823221798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we weren't engaged, but we were seeing each other a lot. At one time, you see, I liked both the surfer and Mike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at one time Mike said to me, look, who's it going to be, Dave or me? And I said, I don't know. And he said, well, you need to decide. And I said, okay, let me walk around the block this way, and you walk around that block that way. So we walked around and then we met on the other side of the block and I said, it's you. And he said, okay, then you need to tell Dave. I said, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the two weeks at home were kind of fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really fun. It was really fun to see Mike, see some of my friends, and have Mike come down and meet my parents. And it was, yeah, it was. It was fun and exciting. I thought we finished that part of it. I'm filled with Spanish and Guatemalan culture. And I think I know a little bit about the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how to sew a dress."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3609898692468665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at one time Mike said to me, look, who's it going to be, Dave or me? And I said, I don't know. And he said, well, you need to decide. And I said, okay, let me walk around the block this way, and you walk around that block that way. So we walked around and then we met on the other side of the block and I said, it's you. And he said, okay, then you need to tell Dave. I said, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the two weeks at home were kind of fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really fun. It was really fun to see Mike, see some of my friends, and have Mike come down and meet my parents. And it was, yeah, it was. It was fun and exciting. I thought we finished that part of it. I'm filled with Spanish and Guatemalan culture. And I think I know a little bit about the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how to sew a dress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, a little bit about some of the cultural things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then up to the point when you're getting on the plane to fly down there, any second thoughts about maybe I shouldn't be doing this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.845544299163185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really fun. It was really fun to see Mike, see some of my friends, and have Mike come down and meet my parents. And it was, yeah, it was. It was fun and exciting. I thought we finished that part of it. I'm filled with Spanish and Guatemalan culture. And I think I know a little bit about the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how to sew a dress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, a little bit about some of the cultural things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then up to the point when you're getting on the plane to fly down there, any second thoughts about maybe I shouldn't be doing this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. Absolutely no second thoughts at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody tried, your family didn't try to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.383938110181317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, a little bit about some of the cultural things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then up to the point when you're getting on the plane to fly down there, any second thoughts about maybe I shouldn't be doing this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. Absolutely no second thoughts at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody tried, your family didn't try to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were very, they were very happy for me. My parents were always very happy for me throughout my exploits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you fly down to Guatemala. Did the whole group go together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.982153455757019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. Absolutely no second thoughts at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody tried, your family didn't try to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were very, they were very happy for me. My parents were always very happy for me throughout my exploits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you fly down to Guatemala. Did the whole group go together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. The whole group together went on a plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chartered flight or just a regular flight."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.646837173063354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were very, they were very happy for me. My parents were always very happy for me throughout my exploits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you fly down to Guatemala. Did the whole group go together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. The whole group together went on a plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chartered flight or just a regular flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a regular flight. We have a photo somewhere of all of us standing on the steps, coming down the plane, all of us there together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone there to greet you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.38537463673706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. The whole group together went on a plane?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chartered flight or just a regular flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a regular flight. We have a photo somewhere of all of us standing on the steps, coming down the plane, all of us there together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone there to greet you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were, there were a few people there to greet us. The director of the country, the, yeah, I think the ambassador, the director of the Peace Corps, director of the country. Um. There were, there were a few people. Who else might have been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's about it. Some Guatemalan officials?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.205971818596733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, a regular flight. We have a photo somewhere of all of us standing on the steps, coming down the plane, all of us there together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anyone there to greet you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were, there were a few people there to greet us. The director of the country, the, yeah, I think the ambassador, the director of the Peace Corps, director of the country. Um. There were, there were a few people. Who else might have been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's about it. Some Guatemalan officials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The director of the, Peace Corps director of the country. And also there were a few other reps that handled the different areas of Guatemala. They were all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Remember who the director was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.00663535399637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were, there were a few people there to greet us. The director of the country, the, yeah, I think the ambassador, the director of the Peace Corps, director of the country. Um. There were, there were a few people. Who else might have been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's about it. Some Guatemalan officials?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The director of the, Peace Corps director of the country. And also there were a few other reps that handled the different areas of Guatemala. They were all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Remember who the director was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Andy Hernandez."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the ambassador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.562928171107078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The director of the, Peace Corps director of the country. And also there were a few other reps that handled the different areas of Guatemala. They were all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Remember who the director was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Andy Hernandez."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the ambassador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ambassador, I can't remember. I want to say John Bell, but I think that was when I was in Quito, Ecuador. There's been too many ambassadors in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You get off the plane, what happens next?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.181031301230087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Andy Hernandez."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And the ambassador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ambassador, I can't remember. I want to say John Bell, but I think that was when I was in Quito, Ecuador. There's been too many ambassadors in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You get off the plane, what happens next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We get off the plane and we go in and we talk and then they say, okay, we're going to divide you up and we're going to send you around the country. Everybody is going to go get on a bus and go take a trip around the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.867812556922319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ambassador, I can't remember. I want to say John Bell, but I think that was when I was in Quito, Ecuador. There's been too many ambassadors in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You get off the plane, what happens next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We get off the plane and we go in and we talk and then they say, okay, we're going to divide you up and we're going to send you around the country. Everybody is going to go get on a bus and go take a trip around the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was pretty soon after. I mean, it wasn't just like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you had a few days?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.933899255037473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went, we checked into the hotel. We always stayed at the Palace Hotel in Guatemala City. And whenever we were called in for things, it was always the Palace Hotel. So we were all checked into the Palace Hotel for the first day or maybe two days, and we had some meetings and discussions and stuff. And then they said, okay, we think the best way for you all to get familiar with your new country is to get on a bus and go travel around. So Mike and I went together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got on a bus together and traveled around the countryside and we had a very interesting cultural experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was, they have what are called the chicken busses in Guatemala, where everything is thrown on top. Everything, everything, everything. And Mike and I were sitting in these little old rickety busses. We were sitting in a seat and he was next to the window. And I was inside and the window was open. And we're going through some town and all of a sudden all this water comes into our window and we jump up and move, and it's coming into our window and the window in front of us where a little indigenous couple is sitting. And they just sit there. And what the water is, it's the pig up top is urinating and it's pig pee coming into the window. And the little couple sitting in front of us just sat right there, and we of course, just jumped up and got out of the way. So that was that was a very early memory in our trip by bus ride around Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were gone how long on this bus ride?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.259888061152748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got on a bus together and traveled around the countryside and we had a very interesting cultural experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was, they have what are called the chicken busses in Guatemala, where everything is thrown on top. Everything, everything, everything. And Mike and I were sitting in these little old rickety busses. We were sitting in a seat and he was next to the window. And I was inside and the window was open. And we're going through some town and all of a sudden all this water comes into our window and we jump up and move, and it's coming into our window and the window in front of us where a little indigenous couple is sitting. And they just sit there. And what the water is, it's the pig up top is urinating and it's pig pee coming into the window. And the little couple sitting in front of us just sat right there, and we of course, just jumped up and got out of the way. So that was that was a very early memory in our trip by bus ride around Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were gone how long on this bus ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not very many days, I think like two days or three days. They just stuck us all out there and said, go get on the bus and go somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your initial reaction to being in Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6220978457252753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was, they have what are called the chicken busses in Guatemala, where everything is thrown on top. Everything, everything, everything. And Mike and I were sitting in these little old rickety busses. We were sitting in a seat and he was next to the window. And I was inside and the window was open. And we're going through some town and all of a sudden all this water comes into our window and we jump up and move, and it's coming into our window and the window in front of us where a little indigenous couple is sitting. And they just sit there. And what the water is, it's the pig up top is urinating and it's pig pee coming into the window. And the little couple sitting in front of us just sat right there, and we of course, just jumped up and got out of the way. So that was that was a very early memory in our trip by bus ride around Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were gone how long on this bus ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not very many days, I think like two days or three days. They just stuck us all out there and said, go get on the bus and go somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your initial reaction to being in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your use of language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.024553161916972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not very many days, I think like two days or three days. They just stuck us all out there and said, go get on the bus and go somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your initial reaction to being in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your use of language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, uh. It was, I was struck by its beauty. It's a very beautiful country with beautiful volcanoes and really quite lovely. So I was struck by the scenery of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you immediately begin using your language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.286081154892965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so. I better. I like to talk a lot. I'm sure I must have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "English wouldn't have done very well with people. I'm not at all shy with people. I talk to anyone and everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think I was much better at it than Mike, who it was. It was, he was still learning Spanish and I was much more advanced than he. So I would have done all the initiating and talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any inhibitions about talking politics, taking photos?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.762312394325517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "English wouldn't have done very well with people. I'm not at all shy with people. I talk to anyone and everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think I was much better at it than Mike, who it was. It was, he was still learning Spanish and I was much more advanced than he. So I would have done all the initiating and talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any inhibitions about talking politics, taking photos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they told us not to talk politics. In Peace Corps training, we were told not to talk politics and not to talk religion. So that was fine for me, since I didn't usually ever talk about either of those things anyway. I was not very much into politics. Never have been. Nor religion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you get back from the bus ride or the bus tour or whatever, what's the next phase of being in Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.291458215917241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think I was much better at it than Mike, who it was. It was, he was still learning Spanish and I was much more advanced than he. So I would have done all the initiating and talking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any inhibitions about talking politics, taking photos?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they told us not to talk politics. In Peace Corps training, we were told not to talk politics and not to talk religion. So that was fine for me, since I didn't usually ever talk about either of those things anyway. I was not very much into politics. Never have been. Nor religion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you get back from the bus ride or the bus tour or whatever, what's the next phase of being in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we were assigned to our communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunity to give input as to your preference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.879398017685824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they told us not to talk politics. In Peace Corps training, we were told not to talk politics and not to talk religion. So that was fine for me, since I didn't usually ever talk about either of those things anyway. I was not very much into politics. Never have been. Nor religion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you get back from the bus ride or the bus tour or whatever, what's the next phase of being in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we were assigned to our communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunity to give input as to your preference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I said I wanted to be assigned with Mike and that's when they said absolutely not. You two are much too affectionate a couple. You're going to be split up, sent on different ends of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The implication being that the relationship was somehow not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.258516071217065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I said I wanted to be assigned with Mike and that's when they said absolutely not. You two are much too affectionate a couple. You're going to be split up, sent on different ends of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The implication being that the relationship was somehow not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were afraid that we were going to be too, too much in love with each other and not do work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not develop our communities. I know, but it was, it was fine. It was good. Our relationship was really too fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your initial response to that was, well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.06501785690785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were afraid that we were going to be too, too much in love with each other and not do work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not develop our communities. I know, but it was, it was fine. It was good. Our relationship was really too fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your initial response to that was, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wasn't happy. Neither one of us were happy, but it was okay. And I think it was a wise decision on the part of the Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now so you weren't too long in Guatemala City?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.961130952119834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not develop our communities. I know, but it was, it was fine. It was good. Our relationship was really too fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your initial response to that was, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wasn't happy. Neither one of us were happy, but it was okay. And I think it was a wise decision on the part of the Peace Corps staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now so you weren't too long in Guatemala City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we're not very long in Guatemala City before we were assigned to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to, uh, where were you assigned? Was it with anybody else and had been Peace Corps there before you got there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.2483098174318945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we're not very long in Guatemala City before we were assigned to our sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to, uh, where were you assigned? Was it with anybody else and had been Peace Corps there before you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was assigned to Quezaltepeque, which is a little village in the, in the far. I have to look at the country. By Salvador. What's that? East. In the eastern part, on the eastern part of Guatemala, near the Salvador border, in a mountainous area, very kind of dry desert mountainy. There had been no Peace Corps volunteers there before, and I was assigned with a woman and a man. Three of us were assigned together. In 1963 in Guatemala, they were assigning mixed couples because at that time they thought it was better for women not to be alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Soon after that, they again changed the course of direction and they did not put men and women together at all. It caused a problem in our village. The village said, who is the wife? There's one husband and two women living with him, because we lived in one house, and the people in the village could not understand. None of you are married to that man? Men and women. You are from the States and men and women are living together and you are not married? We didn't think that happened in the States. We thought you didn't live together until you were married. So it caused a problem and they stopped doing that maybe a year later or maybe two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the three of you sort through this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.831455352702105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was assigned to Quezaltepeque, which is a little village in the, in the far. I have to look at the country. By Salvador. What's that? East. In the eastern part, on the eastern part of Guatemala, near the Salvador border, in a mountainous area, very kind of dry desert mountainy. There had been no Peace Corps volunteers there before, and I was assigned with a woman and a man. Three of us were assigned together. In 1963 in Guatemala, they were assigning mixed couples because at that time they thought it was better for women not to be alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Soon after that, they again changed the course of direction and they did not put men and women together at all. It caused a problem in our village. The village said, who is the wife? There's one husband and two women living with him, because we lived in one house, and the people in the village could not understand. None of you are married to that man? Men and women. You are from the States and men and women are living together and you are not married? We didn't think that happened in the States. We thought you didn't live together until you were married. So it caused a problem and they stopped doing that maybe a year later or maybe two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the three of you sort through this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we just kept laughing and saying, no, it's not my husband. And Ginny would say, he's not my husband because Doug was very lazy and Doug always had amoebas. And when it was time to get on the mules and go out to the little schools way out, far away, Doug always said, oh, my stomach hurts. I'm having an amoeba attack. You girls go ahead. You'll be fine without me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, in initially coming into the village, had someone arranged housing for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.479394836335672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Soon after that, they again changed the course of direction and they did not put men and women together at all. It caused a problem in our village. The village said, who is the wife? There's one husband and two women living with him, because we lived in one house, and the people in the village could not understand. None of you are married to that man? Men and women. You are from the States and men and women are living together and you are not married? We didn't think that happened in the States. We thought you didn't live together until you were married. So it caused a problem and they stopped doing that maybe a year later or maybe two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the three of you sort through this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we just kept laughing and saying, no, it's not my husband. And Ginny would say, he's not my husband because Doug was very lazy and Doug always had amoebas. And when it was time to get on the mules and go out to the little schools way out, far away, Doug always said, oh, my stomach hurts. I'm having an amoeba attack. You girls go ahead. You'll be fine without me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, in initially coming into the village, had someone arranged housing for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had found housing for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the “they” in this case, Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.199327595928525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we just kept laughing and saying, no, it's not my husband. And Ginny would say, he's not my husband because Doug was very lazy and Doug always had amoebas. And when it was time to get on the mules and go out to the little schools way out, far away, Doug always said, oh, my stomach hurts. I'm having an amoeba attack. You girls go ahead. You'll be fine without me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, in initially coming into the village, had someone arranged housing for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had found housing for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the “they” in this case, Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was the rep in our part of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a regional Peace Corps rep?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.406485042425959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had gone ahead of us, yes. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "An American guy. Sklar. Joe Sklar was our guy, Joe Sklar. And I think there may be had been like three, three reps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country was kind of divided up and they each had, were assigned those volunteers in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about your initial being in the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.229427824917732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An American guy. Sklar. Joe Sklar was our guy, Joe Sklar. And I think there may be had been like three, three reps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country was kind of divided up and they each had, were assigned those volunteers in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about your initial being in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.143808694353035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The country was kind of divided up and they each had, were assigned those volunteers in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about your initial being in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody to whom you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.159787438170039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody to whom you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught girls basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But before you got there, to whom did you initially relate? I mean, you had housing arranged for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.288652709077821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody to whom you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught girls basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But before you got there, to whom did you initially relate? I mean, you had housing arranged for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But day one of being a Peace Corps volunteer there, where do you go? I mean, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.542947454530912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught girls basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But before you got there, to whom did you initially relate? I mean, you had housing arranged for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But day one of being a Peace Corps volunteer there, where do you go? I mean, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's why I went out and played basketball with the girls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just from the get-go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.761244793595212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just from the get-go. I made friends with the kids. What they said to us in Peace Corps training was make friends with the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If parents, if you do something good for a kid, you're going to get the parents on your side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And being that I love kids, I went out, and I loved sports. So I went out and I would play basketball with the girls and the boys, and I made friends with the kids. And you know what? I hadn't been there more than two weeks and there was a knock at our door and I opened the door and here are four little kids standing there with a little puppy. Dona Betsy, would you like this puppy? We thought you might like this puppy. It was a little white dog that I named Sam, Samuela. She was a she, but I called her Sam for short. And the kids loved this little dog that they gave me. So it was, it was a real in to the town, because now the kids gave me a dog, and I had this dog to walk around with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These children's families and others in the village must have known you were there. Who did they think you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.520055300734828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And being that I love kids, I went out, and I loved sports. So I went out and I would play basketball with the girls and the boys, and I made friends with the kids. And you know what? I hadn't been there more than two weeks and there was a knock at our door and I opened the door and here are four little kids standing there with a little puppy. Dona Betsy, would you like this puppy? We thought you might like this puppy. It was a little white dog that I named Sam, Samuela. She was a she, but I called her Sam for short. And the kids loved this little dog that they gave me. So it was, it was a real in to the town, because now the kids gave me a dog, and I had this dog to walk around with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These children's families and others in the village must have known you were there. Who did they think you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was very difficult to explain that. Yeah. Peace Corps volunteer. Well, what do you do? What is your job? Well, our job is, um, well, we're to come here and we're to help you develop your village. Oh, you are? Oh, well. Now you see before, now here's another thing I forgot. We were also assigned to work with CARE, and that was to be our first in to the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE. And CARE had hot lunch programs going on and school gardens. And so in our village, in Quezaltepeque, which was a big town. It was a big town, not a little village, but a big town. The three of us were to go out to all these different schools all out in the aldeas outside of the town of Quezaltepeque and start hot lunch programs and start care of gardens. So we had seeds and we had dry milk and bulgur wheat, all the CARE products."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a CARE official who sort of got this thing going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.80006144526092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was very difficult to explain that. Yeah. Peace Corps volunteer. Well, what do you do? What is your job? Well, our job is, um, well, we're to come here and we're to help you develop your village. Oh, you are? Oh, well. Now you see before, now here's another thing I forgot. We were also assigned to work with CARE, and that was to be our first in to the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE. And CARE had hot lunch programs going on and school gardens. And so in our village, in Quezaltepeque, which was a big town. It was a big town, not a little village, but a big town. The three of us were to go out to all these different schools all out in the aldeas outside of the town of Quezaltepeque and start hot lunch programs and start care of gardens. So we had seeds and we had dry milk and bulgur wheat, all the CARE products."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a CARE official who sort of got this thing going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the head of CARE, we were like 21 and 22 years old. The head of CARE was 28 years old. And we thought he must have been at least 40. He was so organized and knew everything, what to do, and we could always ask him questions and problems and he always could help us. And we thought he was way older than we are because he seemed to know so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he wasn't a Guatemalan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.000068272512133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE. And CARE had hot lunch programs going on and school gardens. And so in our village, in Quezaltepeque, which was a big town. It was a big town, not a little village, but a big town. The three of us were to go out to all these different schools all out in the aldeas outside of the town of Quezaltepeque and start hot lunch programs and start care of gardens. So we had seeds and we had dry milk and bulgur wheat, all the CARE products."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a CARE official who sort of got this thing going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the head of CARE, we were like 21 and 22 years old. The head of CARE was 28 years old. And we thought he must have been at least 40. He was so organized and knew everything, what to do, and we could always ask him questions and problems and he always could help us. And we thought he was way older than we are because he seemed to know so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he wasn't a Guatemalan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kenny Kent. No, Kenny Kent. Yeah. He was from the States. He was from California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was he resident in the same town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.333409191680147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And the head of CARE, we were like 21 and 22 years old. The head of CARE was 28 years old. And we thought he must have been at least 40. He was so organized and knew everything, what to do, and we could always ask him questions and problems and he always could help us. And we thought he was way older than we are because he seemed to know so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he wasn't a Guatemalan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kenny Kent. No, Kenny Kent. Yeah. He was from the States. He was from California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was he resident in the same town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no, no. He was in Guatemala City. He was in Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But accessible to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.592676879644607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kenny Kent. No, Kenny Kent. Yeah. He was from the States. He was from California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was he resident in the same town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no, no. He was in Guatemala City. He was in Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But accessible to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He. Yeah. So he was accessible to us and he gave us a lot of assistance and support and encouragement and ideas on how we should go about doing what we were doing. So we worked with a priest in Quezaltepeque. There was a priest, Padre Antonio. And Padre Antonio liked Jennie and me very much. And he would, he would be responsible for finding mules for us to go on these long journeys out to the schools. And he accompanied us many of the times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever spend nights out or were you always back in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.769640977382897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no, no. He was in Guatemala City. He was in Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But accessible to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He. Yeah. So he was accessible to us and he gave us a lot of assistance and support and encouragement and ideas on how we should go about doing what we were doing. So we worked with a priest in Quezaltepeque. There was a priest, Padre Antonio. And Padre Antonio liked Jennie and me very much. And he would, he would be responsible for finding mules for us to go on these long journeys out to the schools. And he accompanied us many of the times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever spend nights out or were you always back in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we always came back. We'd go out and come back. I don't remember ever spending a night out. I remember always going out in the early morning and coming back and it was a long day. And that's why Doug's amoebas always were bothering him and he didn't want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So within the first six months, you had a clear role and part of it related to the CARE program you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.966267752647664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He. Yeah. So he was accessible to us and he gave us a lot of assistance and support and encouragement and ideas on how we should go about doing what we were doing. So we worked with a priest in Quezaltepeque. There was a priest, Padre Antonio. And Padre Antonio liked Jennie and me very much. And he would, he would be responsible for finding mules for us to go on these long journeys out to the schools. And he accompanied us many of the times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever spend nights out or were you always back in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we always came back. We'd go out and come back. I don't remember ever spending a night out. I remember always going out in the early morning and coming back and it was a long day. And that's why Doug's amoebas always were bothering him and he didn't want to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So within the first six months, you had a clear role and part of it related to the CARE program you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, but I didn't last in that village six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.217614509441558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, but I didn't last in that village six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you see, because they separated Mike and me. And so in order to see each other, we would have to meet in Guatemala City. So on weekends we would leave our villages and go into Guatemala City and be together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so after January, February, March, April. We got married at the end of April because it got just ridiculous going and coming and going and coming. So we decided to get married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to ask for permission of the country director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.379770999310566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so after January, February, March, April. We got married at the end of April because it got just ridiculous going and coming and going and coming. So we decided to get married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to ask for permission of the country director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And our parents. We had to have permission of the country director and permission from our parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Documented?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had to send them a cable and wait for a cable to come back. So the Peace Corps said we cannot allow anybody's status to change while you're a Peace Corps volunteer without permission from your parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.53307888812285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And our parents. We had to have permission of the country director and permission from our parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Documented?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had to send them a cable and wait for a cable to come back. So the Peace Corps said we cannot allow anybody's status to change while you're a Peace Corps volunteer without permission from your parents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "21. And Mike was 22. And so we sent telegrams to our parents, and both parents sent a telegram back that it was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were totally aware of the relationship?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.905035664349198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "21. And Mike was 22. And so we sent telegrams to our parents, and both parents sent a telegram back that it was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were totally aware of the relationship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, yeah, because they had met. I hadn't met Mike's parents, but my parents had met Mike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were aware of the relationship. So they said, yes, that we could get married. So we got married in Guatemala City and the CARE director walked me down the aisle and gave me away. Kenny Kent, who was only a few years older than me, and when I last saw him a few years ago, he said, Betsy, I was shaking as much as you were walking down that aisle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did any of the family come?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.00559518261022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, yeah, because they had met. I hadn't met Mike's parents, but my parents had met Mike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were aware of the relationship. So they said, yes, that we could get married. So we got married in Guatemala City and the CARE director walked me down the aisle and gave me away. Kenny Kent, who was only a few years older than me, and when I last saw him a few years ago, he said, Betsy, I was shaking as much as you were walking down that aisle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did any of the family come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in neither family. Both parents. His father was a doctor. My father was working. Nobody could get. That was, this is in 1963, '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Peace Corps country director go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.006216869566911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were aware of the relationship. So they said, yes, that we could get married. So we got married in Guatemala City and the CARE director walked me down the aisle and gave me away. Kenny Kent, who was only a few years older than me, and when I last saw him a few years ago, he said, Betsy, I was shaking as much as you were walking down that aisle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did any of the family come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in neither family. Both parents. His father was a doctor. My father was working. Nobody could get. That was, this is in 1963, '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Peace Corps country director go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. And the Peace Corps volunteers did. Yeah, we had a lovely little church wedding and reception. My dress cost $5. The whole wedding cost about $10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't sew it yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.118018743963235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, in neither family. Both parents. His father was a doctor. My father was working. Nobody could get. That was, this is in 1963, '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Peace Corps country director go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. And the Peace Corps volunteers did. Yeah, we had a lovely little church wedding and reception. My dress cost $5. The whole wedding cost about $10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't sew it yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't sell it myself, no. I bought material and took it to a woman. I paid her $5 and she sewed it. Yeah. Didn't sew it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have a chance, a break there to go on a honeymoon?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.35335415995915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. And the Peace Corps volunteers did. Yeah, we had a lovely little church wedding and reception. My dress cost $5. The whole wedding cost about $10."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't sew it yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't sell it myself, no. I bought material and took it to a woman. I paid her $5 and she sewed it. Yeah. Didn't sew it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you have a chance, a break there to go on a honeymoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. We had, I think we had about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had leave coming to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.781918715998948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. We had, I think we had about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had leave coming to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had. Yeah, we had, we had a few days because we went to Lake Atitlan and Sam Green, who was an American living in Guatemala, had a lot of money and a lot of houses, and he was always in touch with young people. He gave us his house to have our honeymoon in on the lake, but he was there also and he was snooping around the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was a dirty old man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a little uncomfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.789867256005941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doug and my neighbor took my little Sam down the street to the cemetery and buried Sam in the cemetery. And I was. I was crushed. And the children in the village were crushed, and everybody was very sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two weeks later. Two weeks later, I'm in my house doing something, and I hear the kids yelling, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy? Aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam! Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. And I threw open the door of my house and looked at the dirt road that went out to the end of the town where the cemetery was. And there's this little white, dirty, dirty, blood mangled in white coat fur, slowly dragging himself down the street. And the children are standing there just screaming at me. Sam, aqui esta Sam, aqui esta Sam! Here is Sam, here is Sam. And it was my little dog. Sam had come back to life. And so I was now the hero of the village. My dog, who had died and been buried for two weeks, came back to life and lived, then lived many more months with me.\n\nSo that was an incredible story, an incredible story of how that little dog. Obviously, they must not have buried her. They must have just thrown her in the thing and the poor little thing healed herself, somehow survived and came back to me. So that was an incredible story. So then, then I left the village, got married, and then we were sent to up to Flores, Petén, in Petén, near Tikal. And the city of Flores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Mike been there before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Mike was assigned to the other side of the country in a place called Barberena."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for both of you, it was a totally new assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.322074728895489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two weeks later. Two weeks later, I'm in my house doing something, and I hear the kids yelling, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy? Aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam, aquí viene Sam! Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. Here comes Sam. And I threw open the door of my house and looked at the dirt road that went out to the end of the town where the cemetery was. And there's this little white, dirty, dirty, blood mangled in white coat fur, slowly dragging himself down the street. And the children are standing there just screaming at me. Sam, aqui esta Sam, aqui esta Sam! Here is Sam, here is Sam. And it was my little dog. Sam had come back to life. And so I was now the hero of the village. My dog, who had died and been buried for two weeks, came back to life and lived, then lived many more months with me.\n\nSo that was an incredible story, an incredible story of how that little dog. Obviously, they must not have buried her. They must have just thrown her in the thing and the poor little thing healed herself, somehow survived and came back to me. So that was an incredible story. So then, then I left the village, got married, and then we were sent to up to Flores, Petén, in Petén, near Tikal. And the city of Flores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Mike been there before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Mike was assigned to the other side of the country in a place called Barberena."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for both of you, it was a totally new assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a totally new site. But there was another Peace Corps volunteer already up there in our group, Tim and Carol. Carol Bellamy, who later became the director of Peace Corps, and Tim Kraft, who always was very political and worked with Jimmy Carter in his campaign."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were two volunteers there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.913416365439431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Mike was assigned to the other side of the country in a place called Barberena."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for both of you, it was a totally new assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a totally new site. But there was another Peace Corps volunteer already up there in our group, Tim and Carol. Carol Bellamy, who later became the director of Peace Corps, and Tim Kraft, who always was very political and worked with Jimmy Carter in his campaign."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were two volunteers there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those two volunteers were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you joined them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.570462628266035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a totally new site. But there was another Peace Corps volunteer already up there in our group, Tim and Carol. Carol Bellamy, who later became the director of Peace Corps, and Tim Kraft, who always was very political and worked with Jimmy Carter in his campaign."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were two volunteers there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those two volunteers were there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you joined them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Mike and I joined them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they, were they pursuing the CARE program as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.889460034896339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Mike and I joined them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they, were they pursuing the CARE program as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there we weren't so much doing the CARE program. I don't know what we were doing. We're making gardens. We were digging gardens. Because then I got pregnant and then I got horrible morning sickness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was throwing up everywhere. I was always throwing up all the time. So I'd go out to dig and work in this big garden that we were building and I'd just start throwing up and I'd go here. And then our dog, Mike's dog, which was a German shepherd, a little German shepherd, and my dog Sam. So Mike's dog somehow got bitten by a rabid dog and got rabies and started running around Flores Petén biting everybody. Bit Mike in the nose, which is a very bad place for a rabid dog to bite. Bit me. Bit a whole bunch of children so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're three months pregnant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.543844483218154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there we weren't so much doing the CARE program. I don't know what we were doing. We're making gardens. We were digging gardens. Because then I got pregnant and then I got horrible morning sickness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was throwing up everywhere. I was always throwing up all the time. So I'd go out to dig and work in this big garden that we were building and I'd just start throwing up and I'd go here. And then our dog, Mike's dog, which was a German shepherd, a little German shepherd, and my dog Sam. So Mike's dog somehow got bitten by a rabid dog and got rabies and started running around Flores Petén biting everybody. Bit Mike in the nose, which is a very bad place for a rabid dog to bite. Bit me. Bit a whole bunch of children so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're three months pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm three months pregnant and so we contact the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is not good community development."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9474843518033134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I said, what about me? And they said, well, you can just stay there. And I said, but if he's going to die, shouldn't I be with him? And they said, no, no, no, we can't afford to send you. You just stay there. So Mike was sent away to New Orleans, and very soon after that, a telegram came in from Dean Rusk saying, send Mrs. Schwartz to her husband in New Orleans. And we never found out how that happened. But I think Mike's father, who was a doctor in New York?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was horrified about that. And I think he contacted Washington. He said, I don't know. Nobody ever, nobody would ever say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it must have had an incredible impact on you to get a telegram saying you should fly to New Orleans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't know, did you know Mike's condition at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2749826131147928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he was horrified about that. And I think he contacted Washington. He said, I don't know. Nobody ever, nobody would ever say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it must have had an incredible impact on you to get a telegram saying you should fly to New Orleans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't know, did you know Mike's condition at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I knew that he had rabies and that he was going to go, he was going to New Orleans. And I don't, I just, I don't know. So I said, thank you. Let me go. And so they said, well, we don't know how much money to give you. I didn't have any money. So they gave me a whole lot of money. And when we came back, they said, we gave you the wrong amount. You have to give us all that money back. But I had already spent it on buying some pregnant clothes. So they sent him to the hospital. So I went to the hospital there where he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Orleans? Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6388695701275475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't know, did you know Mike's condition at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I knew that he had rabies and that he was going to go, he was going to New Orleans. And I don't, I just, I don't know. So I said, thank you. Let me go. And so they said, well, we don't know how much money to give you. I didn't have any money. So they gave me a whole lot of money. And when we came back, they said, we gave you the wrong amount. You have to give us all that money back. But I had already spent it on buying some pregnant clothes. So they sent him to the hospital. So I went to the hospital there where he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Orleans? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they let him out of the hospital by day. They told him not to spit on the floor anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Now in the meantime were you tested? I mean, because you had been bitten too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.043188411252831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I knew that he had rabies and that he was going to go, he was going to New Orleans. And I don't, I just, I don't know. So I said, thank you. Let me go. And so they said, well, we don't know how much money to give you. I didn't have any money. So they gave me a whole lot of money. And when we came back, they said, we gave you the wrong amount. You have to give us all that money back. But I had already spent it on buying some pregnant clothes. So they sent him to the hospital. So I went to the hospital there where he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In New Orleans? Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they let him out of the hospital by day. They told him not to spit on the floor anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Now in the meantime were you tested? I mean, because you had been bitten too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't want to tell. Well, you know what they gave to him? They gave him horse serum shots in the stomach, 21 of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4924315680587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they let him out of the hospital by day. They told him not to spit on the floor anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Now in the meantime were you tested? I mean, because you had been bitten too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't want to tell. Well, you know what they gave to him? They gave him horse serum shots in the stomach, 21 of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do think I wanted that? I had a baby in there. I didn't want that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but you might."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.991590631176334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't want to tell. Well, you know what they gave to him? They gave him horse serum shots in the stomach, 21 of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do think I wanted that? I had a baby in there. I didn't want that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but you might."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, but I just said, he didn't. The dog didn't bite me very bad. I didn't want the shots. I was terrified of them. And the other people that the dog bit, nobody else got the horse serum shot except for Mike because he had gotten bitten right on the nose, which is the face and the hands are the two worst place for rabies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have this New Orleans interlude. You're both there. Mike recovered."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.435100701307038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do think I wanted that? I had a baby in there. I didn't want that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but you might."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, but I just said, he didn't. The dog didn't bite me very bad. I didn't want the shots. I was terrified of them. And the other people that the dog bit, nobody else got the horse serum shot except for Mike because he had gotten bitten right on the nose, which is the face and the hands are the two worst place for rabies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have this New Orleans interlude. You're both there. Mike recovered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's allowed out of the hospital. He just has to go back into the hospital each day to check. But we stayed in a hotel with my big per diem. They gave me. They gave me the per diem, instead of for a Peace Corps volunteer, they gave it for a staff. For a staff person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone at this point from Peace Corps suggest that maybe you terminate your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.92788966811893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, but I just said, he didn't. The dog didn't bite me very bad. I didn't want the shots. I was terrified of them. And the other people that the dog bit, nobody else got the horse serum shot except for Mike because he had gotten bitten right on the nose, which is the face and the hands are the two worst place for rabies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have this New Orleans interlude. You're both there. Mike recovered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's allowed out of the hospital. He just has to go back into the hospital each day to check. But we stayed in a hotel with my big per diem. They gave me. They gave me the per diem, instead of for a Peace Corps volunteer, they gave it for a staff. For a staff person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone at this point from Peace Corps suggest that maybe you terminate your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They never suggested that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with all the medical care, your expectation was that you were going back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.475432964576589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's allowed out of the hospital. He just has to go back into the hospital each day to check. But we stayed in a hotel with my big per diem. They gave me. They gave me the per diem, instead of for a Peace Corps volunteer, they gave it for a staff. For a staff person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone at this point from Peace Corps suggest that maybe you terminate your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They never suggested that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with all the medical care, your expectation was that you were going back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now as far as."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.083814405085098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They never suggested that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So with all the medical care, your expectation was that you were going back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now as far as."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never suggested that. If he was going to die, they just, you know, they didn't want it happening down there. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. When you were married, when you asked the permission of country director to be married, did anyone imply or suggest that perhaps it would be good if you not have children while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.759793783427886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now as far as."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They never suggested that. If he was going to die, they just, you know, they didn't want it happening down there. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. When you were married, when you asked the permission of country director to be married, did anyone imply or suggest that perhaps it would be good if you not have children while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't say that. Already two. No, they hadn't been born yet. There were to be three babies born in that group, mine and two others. Mine was the second. First, second and third."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.234313312873934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't say that. Already two. No, they hadn't been born yet. There were to be three babies born in that group, mine and two others. Mine was the second. First, second and third."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they didn't. They did not suggest that at all. As a matter of fact, Andy Hernandez was great. And every time a couple went to him and said, we're pregnant, he said, that's fine. You know, use this baby to show your village how to bring up a baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any, was there any sense that you would best to have the child you should return to Guatemala City?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.03812590319326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they didn't. They did not suggest that at all. As a matter of fact, Andy Hernandez was great. And every time a couple went to him and said, we're pregnant, he said, that's fine. You know, use this baby to show your village how to bring up a baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any, was there any sense that you would best to have the child you should return to Guatemala City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They never suggested anything. Oh. Oh, return, go to Guatemala City?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To have the baby."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.923612226164519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They never suggested anything. Oh. Oh, return, go to Guatemala City?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To have the baby."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's right. I was brought. All the people, all the three of us, the three couples who had a baby, all were in or near Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moved there close to the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. But when Mike is recovered from the rabies, you then go back to the village where Carol and Tom were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.140262007610517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moved there close to the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. But when Mike is recovered from the rabies, you then go back to the village where Carol and Tom were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Tim. Carol and Tim. No, actually, when we came back to Guatemala from there, then they said, since you're pregnant, we're going to move you closer to Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's when they moved us to there, Aldea Lo De Bran, which is kilometer 16 out of Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your third assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.378068897345019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Tim. Carol and Tim. No, actually, when we came back to Guatemala from there, then they said, since you're pregnant, we're going to move you closer to Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's when they moved us to there, Aldea Lo De Bran, which is kilometer 16 out of Guatemala City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your third assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my third assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And you're still in your first year as a volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.12080781528809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there's something I have to tell you about when we lived up in Flores Petén. There was this old American man who came drive from Maryland, the state of Maryland. He came driving in his four wheel drive vehicle down to Guatemala, came up into the Petén, into Flores where we were, and goes around town. I hear there's Peace Corps couple here. I hear there's a Peace Corps couple. I need some help. So they directed him to Mike and me and he said, ah, you're the Peace Corps couple here? And we said, yeah. Tim and Carol lived not in Flores but in Santa Elena, which was a little ways away. So he goes, you're the Peace Corps couple here? And we go, yeah. And he goes, you know, I want to drive my, my four wheel drive vehicle up to Tikal, but I hear there's a lot of road cut down, a lot of trees down over the road. I was wondering if you could come with me and cut the tree so I can get through.\n\nAnd Mike and I said, yeah, we'd love to. Now, this is in 1964. This is when the University of Pennsylvania has just recently, I think they began in 1963 doing their excavations in Tikal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there is just a dirt road that gets there. It's a long dirt road. And there were all these trees falling all over the road. And he, this man had brought a chainsaw. And you know how men love chainsaws. He brought a chainsaw and a winch. And so they would cut. Mike and this guy would cut all these things and we'd drag them away and put them on the winch and haul them out of the road and clear, clear the road. It was a wonderful trip up to Tikal. It was totally memorable. That was my first visit to the ruins at Tikal in 1964."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you settle into any kind of? The pregnancy must have been somewhat unsettling. Any kind of community development role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.245342016986767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there is just a dirt road that gets there. It's a long dirt road. And there were all these trees falling all over the road. And he, this man had brought a chainsaw. And you know how men love chainsaws. He brought a chainsaw and a winch. And so they would cut. Mike and this guy would cut all these things and we'd drag them away and put them on the winch and haul them out of the road and clear, clear the road. It was a wonderful trip up to Tikal. It was totally memorable. That was my first visit to the ruins at Tikal in 1964."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you settle into any kind of? The pregnancy must have been somewhat unsettling. Any kind of community development role?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what I, what I remember. We weren't really working so much in community development there as we were working with projects that Tim and Carol had already started. And so we supported them in their projects. And some of them were these building these gardens, digging these gardens. And that's what was difficult for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close to the capital city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.161491129985295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what I, what I remember. We weren't really working so much in community development there as we were working with projects that Tim and Carol had already started. And so we supported them in their projects. And some of them were these building these gardens, digging these gardens. And that's what was difficult for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close to the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is in Petén. This isn't. This is in Flores Petén, which is a long way away from the capital city. But when we came back from the rabies incident and came back into Guatemala City, then the director, who was a new director now. Andy Hernandez has left and a new director is there, whose name I don't recall. And they decided that we needed to be close to the city.\n\nSo we were sent to a little aldea called Aldea Lo De Bran, which was on kilometer 16 outside of Guatemala City, outside of Guatemala City. And this was a little totally indigenous community, very tiny. It had no running water. It had no electricity. It had very, very poor people. It had no sanitation at all. People just went potty in the cornfields. And so it was suggested to us that one project we might want to do would be help people build latrines. And that another project the government wanted us to do was to begin teaching Spanish literacy, because the Indian people, there are all these different dialects all over the country, and the government wanted everybody, all indigenous groups, to be able to read and write and speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In this new environment you're in, are there any Guatemalan counterparts you worked with? You mentioned the government programs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.068323477761439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So what I, what I remember. We weren't really working so much in community development there as we were working with projects that Tim and Carol had already started. And so we supported them in their projects. And some of them were these building these gardens, digging these gardens. And that's what was difficult for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close to the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is in Petén. This isn't. This is in Flores Petén, which is a long way away from the capital city. But when we came back from the rabies incident and came back into Guatemala City, then the director, who was a new director now. Andy Hernandez has left and a new director is there, whose name I don't recall. And they decided that we needed to be close to the city.\n\nSo we were sent to a little aldea called Aldea Lo De Bran, which was on kilometer 16 outside of Guatemala City, outside of Guatemala City. And this was a little totally indigenous community, very tiny. It had no running water. It had no electricity. It had very, very poor people. It had no sanitation at all. People just went potty in the cornfields. And so it was suggested to us that one project we might want to do would be help people build latrines. And that another project the government wanted us to do was to begin teaching Spanish literacy, because the Indian people, there are all these different dialects all over the country, and the government wanted everybody, all indigenous groups, to be able to read and write and speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In this new environment you're in, are there any Guatemalan counterparts you worked with? You mentioned the government programs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. We worked with the reading program, the Alfabetización. How do you say that word in English? Alpha-. Literacy. Literacy classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the Guatemalan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.075914975290488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this is in Petén. This isn't. This is in Flores Petén, which is a long way away from the capital city. But when we came back from the rabies incident and came back into Guatemala City, then the director, who was a new director now. Andy Hernandez has left and a new director is there, whose name I don't recall. And they decided that we needed to be close to the city.\n\nSo we were sent to a little aldea called Aldea Lo De Bran, which was on kilometer 16 outside of Guatemala City, outside of Guatemala City. And this was a little totally indigenous community, very tiny. It had no running water. It had no electricity. It had very, very poor people. It had no sanitation at all. People just went potty in the cornfields. And so it was suggested to us that one project we might want to do would be help people build latrines. And that another project the government wanted us to do was to begin teaching Spanish literacy, because the Indian people, there are all these different dialects all over the country, and the government wanted everybody, all indigenous groups, to be able to read and write and speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In this new environment you're in, are there any Guatemalan counterparts you worked with? You mentioned the government programs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. We worked with the reading program, the Alfabetización. How do you say that word in English? Alpha-. Literacy. Literacy classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the Guatemalan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a Guatemalan agency. We worked with a lot of Guatemalan agencies here because here's where we really did the crux of our community development. This little, this little village already had some clearly established leaders. They already had what was called a betterment committee. And so we stepped in and went to work with this betterment committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any volunteers been there before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.195461083656097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. We worked with the reading program, the Alfabetización. How do you say that word in English? Alpha-. Literacy. Literacy classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the Guatemalan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a Guatemalan agency. We worked with a lot of Guatemalan agencies here because here's where we really did the crux of our community development. This little, this little village already had some clearly established leaders. They already had what was called a betterment committee. And so we stepped in and went to work with this betterment committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any volunteers been there before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was fresh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.43940120406233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a Guatemalan agency. We worked with a lot of Guatemalan agencies here because here's where we really did the crux of our community development. This little, this little village already had some clearly established leaders. They already had what was called a betterment committee. And so we stepped in and went to work with this betterment committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any volunteers been there before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was fresh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yeah, and again, we had to go through the thing with, who's paying you? What is your job? You do what? So that was always very, no matter where we stayed, it was always difficult for the native people to understand. Your government is paying you to come live here and do what? To do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did people make of the fact you were walking around four or five months pregnant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.821556893402589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was fresh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yeah, and again, we had to go through the thing with, who's paying you? What is your job? You do what? So that was always very, no matter where we stayed, it was always difficult for the native people to understand. Your government is paying you to come live here and do what? To do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did people make of the fact you were walking around four or five months pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought that was great. We were a married couple. You're supposed to have a baby as soon as you get married in Guatemala. That was really cool. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody thought you could take to the house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.801729881558432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yeah, and again, we had to go through the thing with, who's paying you? What is your job? You do what? So that was always very, no matter where we stayed, it was always difficult for the native people to understand. Your government is paying you to come live here and do what? To do this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did people make of the fact you were walking around four or five months pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They thought that was great. We were a married couple. You're supposed to have a baby as soon as you get married in Guatemala. That was really cool. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody thought you could take to the house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, that was. That was fine. So we had this betterment committee, and they, the betterment committee, they wanted to have running water in their town and they wanted to have electricity, which are two huge projects for 16 kilometers out of the city. They were out of the extent of electricity and running water. So it took years. We started on that. And when I went back. Oh, Mike and I went back in, uh, '65. In '73, eight years later, and they had just finished the project of the water and the electricity, but they carried it through to the end. It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stick to your time there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.847366092672746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So while we were there, so we got all that stuff started and there were commissions that went in every week to the city to talk to the electricity company and the water company. And we kept inspiring them to keep going. Things, it's going to take a long time. Things are going to happen slow. And they would go, sometimes Mike would go with them, sometimes they'd go on their own. Mike also began this raising chickens, and we had this wonderful little house that did have electricity. They found a nice little house for us in this little village because we were going to have a baby. So it did have electricity. We didn't have to use candles like we've done in all the other houses. But it had electricity. And what was the point of that? Um. It's a great little house.\n\nMike had started some working, getting the men to raise chickens from two day old chicks to supplement their income and get more protein into their diet. And also, we started these literacy classes. And every evening Mike and I would walk from our house about a mile down the dirt road to the school where we would teach Spanish reading and writing to the native indigenous population of our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it just adults?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that is perhaps the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. Yes, they were adults and they could speak Spanish, but they had never read or written anything and trying to teach them that required the most patience that you could ever come up with. It was very, very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the setting? Was it a school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the school. It was the elementary school for the village. And at nighttime we would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the parents of students who came?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5276124600898093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was the school. It was the elementary school for the village. And at nighttime we would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the parents of students who came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were just the people. A lot of them were older people. They didn't have kids in the school. They were the leaders. They were some of the leaders of the, of the community that hadn't learned to read and write Spanish yet. And they would try so hard. And we had a bodyguard that walked us every night and waited for us and walked us home. Don Anselmo, he lived across the street. That was the husband of Mrs. Victor. She was called Mrs. Victor because her son's name was Victor. So we called her Mrs. Victor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a bodyguard because he didn't want anything to happen to us. And one day, one night we were walking to school and somebody with a machete came out and got him, sliced his head in the back. And we couldn't understand why. We, first of all, we didn't understand why he thought it was necessary to protect us. But he did. He thought it was necessary to protect us. And so we let him walk with us every night. And then that one night they came out and macheted him in his head and we were just really upset. He was okay, didn't, I mean, he was bleeding a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just attacked him and ran away?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.808458288988677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were just the people. A lot of them were older people. They didn't have kids in the school. They were the leaders. They were some of the leaders of the, of the community that hadn't learned to read and write Spanish yet. And they would try so hard. And we had a bodyguard that walked us every night and waited for us and walked us home. Don Anselmo, he lived across the street. That was the husband of Mrs. Victor. She was called Mrs. Victor because her son's name was Victor. So we called her Mrs. Victor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a bodyguard because he didn't want anything to happen to us. And one day, one night we were walking to school and somebody with a machete came out and got him, sliced his head in the back. And we couldn't understand why. We, first of all, we didn't understand why he thought it was necessary to protect us. But he did. He thought it was necessary to protect us. And so we let him walk with us every night. And then that one night they came out and macheted him in his head and we were just really upset. He was okay, didn't, I mean, he was bleeding a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just attacked him and ran away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it politically motivated or no idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1205092099874188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a bodyguard because he didn't want anything to happen to us. And one day, one night we were walking to school and somebody with a machete came out and got him, sliced his head in the back. And we couldn't understand why. We, first of all, we didn't understand why he thought it was necessary to protect us. But he did. He thought it was necessary to protect us. And so we let him walk with us every night. And then that one night they came out and macheted him in his head and we were just really upset. He was okay, didn't, I mean, he was bleeding a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just attacked him and ran away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it politically motivated or no idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. We never. Nobody. No, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned a lot of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.467232455541576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it politically motivated or no idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. We never. Nobody. No, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned a lot of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not a very popular man. He was not. He had some money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The guy who was the bodyguard?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8524805061573066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. We never. Nobody. No, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned a lot of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not a very popular man. He was not. He had some money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The guy who was the bodyguard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Don Anselmo, our bodyguard. He had some money. He and his wife had a whole little farm with a lot of cows, and they had a little bit of money. And I think he must have had some enemies for some reason. I don't know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a lot of what Mike was doing. In the meantime, you were six, seven, eight months pregnant."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.280533895730341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was not a very popular man. He was not. He had some money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The guy who was the bodyguard?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Don Anselmo, our bodyguard. He had some money. He and his wife had a whole little farm with a lot of cows, and they had a little bit of money. And I think he must have had some enemies for some reason. I don't know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a lot of what Mike was doing. In the meantime, you were six, seven, eight months pregnant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you working mostly with the women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.756148773033712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Don Anselmo, our bodyguard. He had some money. He and his wife had a whole little farm with a lot of cows, and they had a little bit of money. And I think he must have had some enemies for some reason. I don't know why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a lot of what Mike was doing. In the meantime, you were six, seven, eight months pregnant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you working mostly with the women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working all the time. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More with the women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1734986367041245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you working mostly with the women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working all the time. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More with the women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was doing. I was doing more stuff like teaching them to boil the water because the water that they were pumping out of the well was like the desagua, the sewer water from La Florida, which was the neighboring, that was the last zone in the city of Guatemala. And they had all this horrible water, and that's kind of the water that they were drinking. It was horrible water. And so I was teaching them about boiling water. I was trying to do sanitation and health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the, what was the structure you were working at? I mean, you simply appear at the well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6372207074490275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working all the time. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More with the women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was doing. I was doing more stuff like teaching them to boil the water because the water that they were pumping out of the well was like the desagua, the sewer water from La Florida, which was the neighboring, that was the last zone in the city of Guatemala. And they had all this horrible water, and that's kind of the water that they were drinking. It was horrible water. And so I was teaching them about boiling water. I was trying to do sanitation and health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the, what was the structure you were working at? I mean, you simply appear at the well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We would meet. I would meet with the women at somebody's house, at one of the women's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that? Who invited whom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.152467452721141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was doing. I was doing more stuff like teaching them to boil the water because the water that they were pumping out of the well was like the desagua, the sewer water from La Florida, which was the neighboring, that was the last zone in the city of Guatemala. And they had all this horrible water, and that's kind of the water that they were drinking. It was horrible water. And so I was teaching them about boiling water. I was trying to do sanitation and health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the, what was the structure you were working at? I mean, you simply appear at the well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We would meet. I would meet with the women at somebody's house, at one of the women's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that? Who invited whom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How was that set up? Who invited whom? I think. Um, who invited whom? It's, it's hard to remember. We were involved with so many different projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any Guatemalan community development officer within the town or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.724963836356824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. We would meet. I would meet with the women at somebody's house, at one of the women's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that? Who invited whom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How was that set up? Who invited whom? I think. Um, who invited whom? It's, it's hard to remember. We were involved with so many different projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any Guatemalan community development officer within the town or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or any department of social welfare?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3610709292853596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How was that set up? Who invited whom? I think. Um, who invited whom? It's, it's hard to remember. We were involved with so many different projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any Guatemalan community development officer within the town or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or any department of social welfare?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. It was pretty much us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I gather that people tended to accept that you were volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.067856588094844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or any department of social welfare?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. It was pretty much us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I gather that people tended to accept that you were volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People tended to accept us. You know, they liked us. We did things for their children. When Christmas came, um, before Christmas, Mike was very good in art. We made a lot of big pinatas and filled them with things and then took them to the school. And we had three legged races for the kids and then we had the kids break open the pinata and get little things. So people liked us because we were always doing things with the kids. I loved to play sports with the kids and there was always a basketball hoop up at the school and Mike liked sports with kids also. So we were very popular as young people living there. They liked us. They couldn't understand why we were there, but they liked us. Unlike one other couple in our country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware at all of local politics or in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.853173986772049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. It was pretty much us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I gather that people tended to accept that you were volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People tended to accept us. You know, they liked us. We did things for their children. When Christmas came, um, before Christmas, Mike was very good in art. We made a lot of big pinatas and filled them with things and then took them to the school. And we had three legged races for the kids and then we had the kids break open the pinata and get little things. So people liked us because we were always doing things with the kids. I loved to play sports with the kids and there was always a basketball hoop up at the school and Mike liked sports with kids also. So we were very popular as young people living there. They liked us. They couldn't understand why we were there, but they liked us. Unlike one other couple in our country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware at all of local politics or in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were a little, we were a little bit aware. We realized that these were indigenous people and they were very low on the totem pole. And we knew it was going to be very difficult for them to be able to fulfill their projects of water and electricity. And so we worked very hard with them at the meetings. We would talk with them and just help inspire them and encourage them to keep going back. You've got to keep going back when they tell you no, you've got to go back when they say they can't do this, you've got to ask again. And so we tried to give them a confidence in themselves and hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about the pregnancy and the birth of your child?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.725748874191165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People tended to accept us. You know, they liked us. We did things for their children. When Christmas came, um, before Christmas, Mike was very good in art. We made a lot of big pinatas and filled them with things and then took them to the school. And we had three legged races for the kids and then we had the kids break open the pinata and get little things. So people liked us because we were always doing things with the kids. I loved to play sports with the kids and there was always a basketball hoop up at the school and Mike liked sports with kids also. So we were very popular as young people living there. They liked us. They couldn't understand why we were there, but they liked us. Unlike one other couple in our country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware at all of local politics or in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were a little, we were a little bit aware. We realized that these were indigenous people and they were very low on the totem pole. And we knew it was going to be very difficult for them to be able to fulfill their projects of water and electricity. And so we worked very hard with them at the meetings. We would talk with them and just help inspire them and encourage them to keep going back. You've got to keep going back when they tell you no, you've got to go back when they say they can't do this, you've got to ask again. And so we tried to give them a confidence in themselves and hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about the pregnancy and the birth of your child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm almost afraid to ask."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.250832082434628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were a little, we were a little bit aware. We realized that these were indigenous people and they were very low on the totem pole. And we knew it was going to be very difficult for them to be able to fulfill their projects of water and electricity. And so we worked very hard with them at the meetings. We would talk with them and just help inspire them and encourage them to keep going back. You've got to keep going back when they tell you no, you've got to go back when they say they can't do this, you've got to ask again. And so we tried to give them a confidence in themselves and hope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about the pregnancy and the birth of your child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm almost afraid to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, it was very. We had a very nice doctor. Actually he's the, was the doctor of my son's little girl when she was first born. He was the pediatrician for Chris when he was born. I want to mention what one person said. I lost a lot of weight during my pregnancy. I was very, very thin. And when Chris was born, he was a very little baby, he was just six and a half pounds. So he was very thin and wrinkled. And a lot of the other Peace Corps volunteers came into the hospital to visit me. And Dave Smith came in and Dave Smith and his wife, Sue, had had the first Peace Corps baby there, and his baby came out round and beautiful. And he came in and looked at my little skinny son and they said, well, he won't get any uglier. And I thought that was such a terrible thing to say here. This is my baby. He's like, well, he won't get any uglier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to get into Guatemala City."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.834257869371808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm almost afraid to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, it was very. We had a very nice doctor. Actually he's the, was the doctor of my son's little girl when she was first born. He was the pediatrician for Chris when he was born. I want to mention what one person said. I lost a lot of weight during my pregnancy. I was very, very thin. And when Chris was born, he was a very little baby, he was just six and a half pounds. So he was very thin and wrinkled. And a lot of the other Peace Corps volunteers came into the hospital to visit me. And Dave Smith came in and Dave Smith and his wife, Sue, had had the first Peace Corps baby there, and his baby came out round and beautiful. And he came in and looked at my little skinny son and they said, well, he won't get any uglier. And I thought that was such a terrible thing to say here. This is my baby. He's like, well, he won't get any uglier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to get into Guatemala City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In time and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.520243990907829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They gave us about three weeks before my due date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They assigned a vehicle to us. They gave us a jeep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a way to get into the city at any time of the day or night. Yeah, right. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it went smoothly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.8151160381578135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a way to get into the city at any time of the day or night. Yeah, right. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it went smoothly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it went smoothly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, birth didn't. It took forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And after the birth of your child, did you get maternity leave of any sort?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.350128931286459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it went smoothly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, birth didn't. It took forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And after the birth of your child, did you get maternity leave of any sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, you don't get any leave, but you don't need any leave in Peace Corps. I mean, you just, you know. But it was really great because the town, the village, was so excited about my having a baby and he had red hair. He was this white baby with red hair. And they called him El Nino Jesus, the little baby Jesus. El Nino Jesus. So they called him the baby Jesus and they loved him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any ceremonies in the village when you came back with the baby?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7223654792071765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, birth didn't. It took forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And after the birth of your child, did you get maternity leave of any sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, you don't get any leave, but you don't need any leave in Peace Corps. I mean, you just, you know. But it was really great because the town, the village, was so excited about my having a baby and he had red hair. He was this white baby with red hair. And they called him El Nino Jesus, the little baby Jesus. El Nino Jesus. So they called him the baby Jesus and they loved him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any ceremonies in the village when you came back with the baby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there weren't any ceremonies. But my neighbor, Mrs. Victor, the woman and her husband, Don Anselmo, they were great. She would offer to take baby Chris after he was a couple of weeks old. I just put him on my back in that thing and I'd throw that on my back and carry him wherever I needed to go and do whatever work I needed to do. But when sometimes if I needed to go do something more than that, she would take him and keep him over at her house. And she fed him coffee and beans and he didn't throw it up. The Gerber baby food company was at our doorstep and they delivered us tons of Gerber baby food because it was an advertisement for them. We were to show all the villagers how baby food, Gerber's baby food, was going to make this baby grow big and strong. And you know what our baby did with baby Gerber's food? Threw it up. Especially when it came time to eating spinach. He was always throwing up dark green spinach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, was it with your agreement or did some Gerber representative suddenly appear at the doorstep?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.13596164356353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, you don't get any leave, but you don't need any leave in Peace Corps. I mean, you just, you know. But it was really great because the town, the village, was so excited about my having a baby and he had red hair. He was this white baby with red hair. And they called him El Nino Jesus, the little baby Jesus. El Nino Jesus. So they called him the baby Jesus and they loved him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any ceremonies in the village when you came back with the baby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there weren't any ceremonies. But my neighbor, Mrs. Victor, the woman and her husband, Don Anselmo, they were great. She would offer to take baby Chris after he was a couple of weeks old. I just put him on my back in that thing and I'd throw that on my back and carry him wherever I needed to go and do whatever work I needed to do. But when sometimes if I needed to go do something more than that, she would take him and keep him over at her house. And she fed him coffee and beans and he didn't throw it up. The Gerber baby food company was at our doorstep and they delivered us tons of Gerber baby food because it was an advertisement for them. We were to show all the villagers how baby food, Gerber's baby food, was going to make this baby grow big and strong. And you know what our baby did with baby Gerber's food? Threw it up. Especially when it came time to eating spinach. He was always throwing up dark green spinach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, was it with your agreement or did some Gerber representative suddenly appear at the doorstep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerber appeared at the doorsteps of all three babies. They thought that was a great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the approval of Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.595512937292811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there weren't any ceremonies. But my neighbor, Mrs. Victor, the woman and her husband, Don Anselmo, they were great. She would offer to take baby Chris after he was a couple of weeks old. I just put him on my back in that thing and I'd throw that on my back and carry him wherever I needed to go and do whatever work I needed to do. But when sometimes if I needed to go do something more than that, she would take him and keep him over at her house. And she fed him coffee and beans and he didn't throw it up. The Gerber baby food company was at our doorstep and they delivered us tons of Gerber baby food because it was an advertisement for them. We were to show all the villagers how baby food, Gerber's baby food, was going to make this baby grow big and strong. And you know what our baby did with baby Gerber's food? Threw it up. Especially when it came time to eating spinach. He was always throwing up dark green spinach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, was it with your agreement or did some Gerber representative suddenly appear at the doorstep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerber appeared at the doorsteps of all three babies. They thought that was a great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the approval of Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. With cases and cases of baby food and they said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a photographer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.1061254858809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gerber appeared at the doorsteps of all three babies. They thought that was a great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the approval of Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. With cases and cases of baby food and they said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a photographer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just cases and cases of baby food. Because they knew the villagers would see how big and healthy the baby would grow eating this baby food instead of coffee and beans, which all the other people fed their baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some mixed feelings about the gift from Gerber?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.303858624544321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just cases and cases of baby food. Because they knew the villagers would see how big and healthy the baby would grow eating this baby food instead of coffee and beans, which all the other people fed their baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some mixed feelings about the gift from Gerber?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, I thought it was very nice that they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, here we didn't have much money. We were very poor. And, you know, I thought it was very nice that they did that. And I thought, wow, we've got all this food. Well, here, I'll just start feeding him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, but now you're in your second year of service, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.004287360604801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, I thought it was very nice that they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, here we didn't have much money. We were very poor. And, you know, I thought it was very nice that they did that. And I thought, wow, we've got all this food. Well, here, I'll just start feeding him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, but now you're in your second year of service, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did any of the family come out to see the baby?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.202823901981235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did any of the family come out to see the baby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my sister did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister and her friend drove down to visit us. They drove all the way from, she was living in Milwaukee, in Wisconsin. And she and another teacher friend on their summer vacation drove in, Carol, her friend's little Volkswagen, their little bug all the way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a good time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.669804335534706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my sister did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister and her friend drove down to visit us. They drove all the way from, she was living in Milwaukee, in Wisconsin. And she and another teacher friend on their summer vacation drove in, Carol, her friend's little Volkswagen, their little bug all the way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a good time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was, it was great. It was really fun. They loved it. They loved their drive down and they loved being with us in the village and seeing, my sister seeing her little nephew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then she could go back and report to your family that all was well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.18867148392745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My sister and her friend drove down to visit us. They drove all the way from, she was living in Milwaukee, in Wisconsin. And she and another teacher friend on their summer vacation drove in, Carol, her friend's little Volkswagen, their little bug all the way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been a good time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was, it was great. It was really fun. They loved it. They loved their drive down and they loved being with us in the village and seeing, my sister seeing her little nephew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then she could go back and report to your family that all was well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That all was well. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now so talk about sometimes although so much accomplishment already in your life, sometimes as people are getting near the end of their second year, they want to be sure that before they leave, they've achieved something. Particularly in a community which is different from teaching, teaching, teachers. So you want to see this project in place or this project done, or was there any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.117519182342182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We felt pretty good. I felt. Well, Mike felt pretty good about his chicken project because that had been very, very difficult to get people to put out money to buy these baby chicks before you're getting any money from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he felt very good about that. I felt good about some of the progress that I had made in, first in my first site and in this site. In this site, I was pretty far pregnant. And then I had a baby. So it was, I was scattered. I had more to take care of than just being a Peace Corps volunteer. But I felt really good about I had learned to make adobe blocks and I built a lot of latrines for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I felt I felt really good about that because here the people were just going potty in the corn fields. And I mean, the water they were drinking was so awful in this our last site. And I felt really good about that project. I felt good about working with the women and trying to teach them some things about just basic health and sanitation and boiling your water. So in the first site with the school lunches and going out to all those schools, I had some satisfaction there in setting up some hot lunch programs for children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your two years, generally, you've already characterized the role that Peace Corps staff played, which for the most part was supportive, other than the initial business of separating you and Mike in assignment. What were your plans as you came near the end of your tour?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.908354647046869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so he felt very good about that. I felt good about some of the progress that I had made in, first in my first site and in this site. In this site, I was pretty far pregnant. And then I had a baby. So it was, I was scattered. I had more to take care of than just being a Peace Corps volunteer. But I felt really good about I had learned to make adobe blocks and I built a lot of latrines for people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I felt I felt really good about that because here the people were just going potty in the corn fields. And I mean, the water they were drinking was so awful in this our last site. And I felt really good about that project. I felt good about working with the women and trying to teach them some things about just basic health and sanitation and boiling your water. So in the first site with the school lunches and going out to all those schools, I had some satisfaction there in setting up some hot lunch programs for children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your two years, generally, you've already characterized the role that Peace Corps staff played, which for the most part was supportive, other than the initial business of separating you and Mike in assignment. What were your plans as you came near the end of your tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what were my? Well, we knew that Mike. We knew that Mike wanted to go back to school and get a graduate degree. We both decided that we loved. We both decided that we loved, um, we loved living and working in other countries. And that was our goal was to get back into other countries. We were both very saddened by the lack of Spanish skills of many of the American government people workers in the city of Guatemala. Nobody seemed to know how to speak Spanish. They were in charge of this, that, and the other thing. And they couldn't even speak Spanish. And a lot of our volunteers in our group felt that way as did we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with the American community in Guatemala City?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.675949607829854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I felt I felt really good about that because here the people were just going potty in the corn fields. And I mean, the water they were drinking was so awful in this our last site. And I felt really good about that project. I felt good about working with the women and trying to teach them some things about just basic health and sanitation and boiling your water. So in the first site with the school lunches and going out to all those schools, I had some satisfaction there in setting up some hot lunch programs for children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your two years, generally, you've already characterized the role that Peace Corps staff played, which for the most part was supportive, other than the initial business of separating you and Mike in assignment. What were your plans as you came near the end of your tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what were my? Well, we knew that Mike. We knew that Mike wanted to go back to school and get a graduate degree. We both decided that we loved. We both decided that we loved, um, we loved living and working in other countries. And that was our goal was to get back into other countries. We were both very saddened by the lack of Spanish skills of many of the American government people workers in the city of Guatemala. Nobody seemed to know how to speak Spanish. They were in charge of this, that, and the other thing. And they couldn't even speak Spanish. And a lot of our volunteers in our group felt that way as did we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with the American community in Guatemala City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Some people, yeah, some people were really nice. Like on Thanksgiving. There were some, some families that would invite Peace Corps volunteers to their home to have a Thanksgiving dinner. So we had some there. There were a couple of fun American owned restaurants that when we felt rich, we'd go into Guatemala City to this nice restaurant and meet a couple of our other friends who'd come in there and gather together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the ambassador's wife have a baby shower for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.528832897588726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what were my? Well, we knew that Mike. We knew that Mike wanted to go back to school and get a graduate degree. We both decided that we loved. We both decided that we loved, um, we loved living and working in other countries. And that was our goal was to get back into other countries. We were both very saddened by the lack of Spanish skills of many of the American government people workers in the city of Guatemala. Nobody seemed to know how to speak Spanish. They were in charge of this, that, and the other thing. And they couldn't even speak Spanish. And a lot of our volunteers in our group felt that way as did we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with the American community in Guatemala City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Some people, yeah, some people were really nice. Like on Thanksgiving. There were some, some families that would invite Peace Corps volunteers to their home to have a Thanksgiving dinner. So we had some there. There were a couple of fun American owned restaurants that when we felt rich, we'd go into Guatemala City to this nice restaurant and meet a couple of our other friends who'd come in there and gather together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the ambassador's wife have a baby shower for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Certainly didn't. Nobody had a baby shower for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she even aware, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.476480997320808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Some people, yeah, some people were really nice. Like on Thanksgiving. There were some, some families that would invite Peace Corps volunteers to their home to have a Thanksgiving dinner. So we had some there. There were a couple of fun American owned restaurants that when we felt rich, we'd go into Guatemala City to this nice restaurant and meet a couple of our other friends who'd come in there and gather together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the ambassador's wife have a baby shower for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Certainly didn't. Nobody had a baby shower for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she even aware, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the official community aware that you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.699359255951615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the official community aware that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall anything ever being done. I, I didn't, you know, my pregnant clothes consisted of a couple of things that I bought when I was in New Orleans. And our Peace Corps skirts, the dungarees skirts, opened as wide as possible with a big safety pin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, no, I don't remember anybody really helping me very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So coming to the end of your tour."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.99928806216846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall anything ever being done. I, I didn't, you know, my pregnant clothes consisted of a couple of things that I bought when I was in New Orleans. And our Peace Corps skirts, the dungarees skirts, opened as wide as possible with a big safety pin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, no, I don't remember anybody really helping me very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So coming to the end of your tour."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a difficult, it was a very difficult delivery. I was, I was very sick for a while. So it was very difficult in the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this almost carried to the end of the second year then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.443653402409401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, no, I don't remember anybody really helping me very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So coming to the end of your tour."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a difficult, it was a very difficult delivery. I was, I was very sick for a while. So it was very difficult in the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this almost carried to the end of the second year then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the second year, you're ready to terminate as volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.400325258968754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the next step?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we left Guatemala, we left in August of '65, and we had to go through some sort of an exit, an exit interview. I believe that's where we took the GSF. GS, G?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "FSR? The Foreign Service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language. I think we took that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very, very possible."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:623", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.222583621076394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we left Guatemala, we left in August of '65, and we had to go through some sort of an exit, an exit interview. I believe that's where we took the GSF. GS, G?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "FSR? The Foreign Service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language. I think we took that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very, very possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'm not positive on that. Okay. So yeah. And had some sort of an exit interview and left came back to the States and Mike had applied to graduate school in Worcester, Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a termination conference where you all, the training group, all got together before you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.136204023418216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language. I think we took that again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very, very possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'm not positive on that. Okay. So yeah. And had some sort of an exit interview and left came back to the States and Mike had applied to graduate school in Worcester, Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a termination conference where you all, the training group, all got together before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all went on the same plane home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did? Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.151337803798018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'm not positive on that. Okay. So yeah. And had some sort of an exit interview and left came back to the States and Mike had applied to graduate school in Worcester, Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a termination conference where you all, the training group, all got together before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all went on the same plane home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except those of us who stayed. A couple extended for a year. A couple got married to Guatemalans, and several people had not made it through the two years. They had left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were leaving, was there any thought that you're trying to extend for a third year? How old was Chris at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:629", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.94593089310891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all went on the same plane home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except those of us who stayed. A couple extended for a year. A couple got married to Guatemalans, and several people had not made it through the two years. They had left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were leaving, was there any thought that you're trying to extend for a third year? How old was Chris at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Chris was nine months old. Eight and a half months old. No, we didn't want to. Mike realized now that he wanted to get into some sort of foreign service work. He wanted to go back and get some more degrees and come back. We both decided our goal was to get back to Latin America. So we wanted to get on and get home and get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what kind of reception when you came home from the family and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:631", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.828812103454345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except those of us who stayed. A couple extended for a year. A couple got married to Guatemalans, and several people had not made it through the two years. They had left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were leaving, was there any thought that you're trying to extend for a third year? How old was Chris at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Chris was nine months old. Eight and a half months old. No, we didn't want to. Mike realized now that he wanted to get into some sort of foreign service work. He wanted to go back and get some more degrees and come back. We both decided our goal was to get back to Latin America. So we wanted to get on and get home and get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what kind of reception when you came home from the family and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, everybody was happy to see us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your own sense of yourself? I mean, well, innocent from Penn State to going into the Peace Corps now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:633", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.809791226060383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Chris was nine months old. Eight and a half months old. No, we didn't want to. Mike realized now that he wanted to get into some sort of foreign service work. He wanted to go back and get some more degrees and come back. We both decided our goal was to get back to Latin America. So we wanted to get on and get home and get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And what kind of reception when you came home from the family and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, everybody was happy to see us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your own sense of yourself? I mean, well, innocent from Penn State to going into the Peace Corps now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And coming back a mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two years later, mother, child, with all these experiences. Did you have any feeling about what it had been, what it meant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.456503739451826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I loved Peace Corps. I loved my experience. So we signed up to be speakers, so we would go around to different places when they were looking for speakers to talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Recruiters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About, no, to groups of people, not recruiters. When I remember going one time to a holiday and there was a group of people there, they wanted to hear about Peace Corps and Peace Corps experiences. And I remember the marquee said, Welcome, Mike and Betsy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we did, we did a bit of that for a while, talking to groups of people, and that felt very good. We wanted to share our story. We wanted to share our experience. It was such a, you know, it was such a great experience for both of us. It was certainly different than how we had anticipated. I certainly didn't expect to come home with a baby, but I did. And it was, it was just kind of a really neat experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I believe you had continuing involvement in Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.951670821613138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About, no, to groups of people, not recruiters. When I remember going one time to a holiday and there was a group of people there, they wanted to hear about Peace Corps and Peace Corps experiences. And I remember the marquee said, Welcome, Mike and Betsy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we did, we did a bit of that for a while, talking to groups of people, and that felt very good. We wanted to share our story. We wanted to share our experience. It was such a, you know, it was such a great experience for both of us. It was certainly different than how we had anticipated. I certainly didn't expect to come home with a baby, but I did. And it was, it was just kind of a really neat experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I believe you had continuing involvement in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.014408421744614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah. And we went back for the first time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mike and myself, from, we lived. After he got his degrees, we then went back to live in South America. One year in Bogota, Colombia, and five years in Quito, Ecuador. And we returned to Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your main role was mother and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.57156491304957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah. And we went back for the first time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mike and myself, from, we lived. After he got his degrees, we then went back to live in South America. One year in Bogota, Colombia, and five years in Quito, Ecuador. And we returned to Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your main role was mother and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.857294347832855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mike and myself, from, we lived. After he got his degrees, we then went back to live in South America. One year in Bogota, Colombia, and five years in Quito, Ecuador. And we returned to Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your main role was mother and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working also in Bogota, Colombia. We still had just the one son, Chris, who was now five. And I was a teacher in the English school. I was a PE teacher to high school girls in the English school outside of Bogota, Colombia. And in Quito, Ecuador, when we moved to there, we then had two, three children. Right? Oh, that's right. And in Bogota, Colombia, I had two. That's right. Oh, sorry. I forgot Eric was born then. And then we went to Quito, we had three. So we had three sons. And I was running a cooperative nursery school for expat children, two, three, and four years old, where the all the mothers helped. We all ran it and I kind of directed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you maintain your fluency in Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:651", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.06366038648095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were working too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working also in Bogota, Colombia. We still had just the one son, Chris, who was now five. And I was a teacher in the English school. I was a PE teacher to high school girls in the English school outside of Bogota, Colombia. And in Quito, Ecuador, when we moved to there, we then had two, three children. Right? Oh, that's right. And in Bogota, Colombia, I had two. That's right. Oh, sorry. I forgot Eric was born then. And then we went to Quito, we had three. So we had three sons. And I was running a cooperative nursery school for expat children, two, three, and four years old, where the all the mothers helped. We all ran it and I kind of directed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you maintain your fluency in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because we were living in Ecuador and Colombia, yeah. We continued speaking Spanish for a lot of years. And then I managed a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, which was a really fun year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During these seven, eight years after, were you able to maintain contact with people in Guatemala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:653", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.959622651645502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working also in Bogota, Colombia. We still had just the one son, Chris, who was now five. And I was a teacher in the English school. I was a PE teacher to high school girls in the English school outside of Bogota, Colombia. And in Quito, Ecuador, when we moved to there, we then had two, three children. Right? Oh, that's right. And in Bogota, Colombia, I had two. That's right. Oh, sorry. I forgot Eric was born then. And then we went to Quito, we had three. So we had three sons. And I was running a cooperative nursery school for expat children, two, three, and four years old, where the all the mothers helped. We all ran it and I kind of directed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you maintain your fluency in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because we were living in Ecuador and Colombia, yeah. We continued speaking Spanish for a lot of years. And then I managed a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, which was a really fun year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During these seven, eight years after, were you able to maintain contact with people in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Very little. As I said, we returned to Guatemala in, we left there in 1965. We returned in 1974 from Quito, Ecuador, because we came to the States and bought a vehicle and decided to drive it down to Ecuador. So we left our kids with some friends and came up and drove back to Ecuador, stopping in Guatemala, going to our village. And we stopped there and people were thrilled to see us. They remembered us. Don Mikey, Dona Betsy. They call him Don Miley and me Dona Betsy. Oh, come look at our chicken projects. The chickens are still doing the chicken projects. Come look at the electricity that we now have in our houses. Come look at our running water. So they remembered so well how those projects started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the political trouble started by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.844025168495001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because we were living in Ecuador and Colombia, yeah. We continued speaking Spanish for a lot of years. And then I managed a cruise ship in the Galapagos Islands, which was a really fun year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During these seven, eight years after, were you able to maintain contact with people in Guatemala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Very little. As I said, we returned to Guatemala in, we left there in 1965. We returned in 1974 from Quito, Ecuador, because we came to the States and bought a vehicle and decided to drive it down to Ecuador. So we left our kids with some friends and came up and drove back to Ecuador, stopping in Guatemala, going to our village. And we stopped there and people were thrilled to see us. They remembered us. Don Mikey, Dona Betsy. They call him Don Miley and me Dona Betsy. Oh, come look at our chicken projects. The chickens are still doing the chicken projects. Come look at the electricity that we now have in our houses. Come look at our running water. So they remembered so well how those projects started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the political trouble started by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, the political trouble started in the sixties. It started before we left in 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your awareness?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.715583520550002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Very little. As I said, we returned to Guatemala in, we left there in 1965. We returned in 1974 from Quito, Ecuador, because we came to the States and bought a vehicle and decided to drive it down to Ecuador. So we left our kids with some friends and came up and drove back to Ecuador, stopping in Guatemala, going to our village. And we stopped there and people were thrilled to see us. They remembered us. Don Mikey, Dona Betsy. They call him Don Miley and me Dona Betsy. Oh, come look at our chicken projects. The chickens are still doing the chicken projects. Come look at the electricity that we now have in our houses. Come look at our running water. So they remembered so well how those projects started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the political trouble started by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, the political trouble started in the sixties. It started before we left in 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your awareness?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little awareness of it. We were told just to be careful when we were in Guatemala City. But it was very minimal. It was just starting in the sixties. But we were told to be careful. And I remember there were always, everywhere, all over the place, there were always these young military people with their, you know, AK-47 type of gun standing on every corner. This was in the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any incidents you encountered?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.683981689500001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, the political trouble started in the sixties. It started before we left in 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your awareness?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little awareness of it. We were told just to be careful when we were in Guatemala City. But it was very minimal. It was just starting in the sixties. But we were told to be careful. And I remember there were always, everywhere, all over the place, there were always these young military people with their, you know, AK-47 type of gun standing on every corner. This was in the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any incidents you encountered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular anti-American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.759979655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little awareness of it. We were told just to be careful when we were in Guatemala City. But it was very minimal. It was just starting in the sixties. But we were told to be careful. And I remember there were always, everywhere, all over the place, there were always these young military people with their, you know, AK-47 type of gun standing on every corner. This was in the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any incidents you encountered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular anti-American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least not in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.95553295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular anti-American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least not in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in the villages, not in Guatemala City, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to visit back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.2839255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least not in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in the villages, not in Guatemala City, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to visit back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A visit back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any further involvement in Guatemala beyond that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:675", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.95, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still redheaded, and his younger brother was redheaded also. And then she met the two other brothers and was just, was just thrilled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We walked back. [tape break] Very old by now. He was older. She was 83. Don Rafa, who had been one of the people in the betterment committee, was probably about 85 by now. He remembered me, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy. I mean, it was absolutely amazing to return so many years later. And the little girl, Anna Banana, who had been six years old when Mike and I left the village so long ago in 1965. Anna Banana saw me and she said, Dona Betsy. And she was now a woman of 40 years old. And she came running down the street and jumped into my arms, almost knocking me over. And she goes, I'm Anna, I'm Anna Banana! And I go, Anna Banana!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, it was thrilling to see that people were still in their same houses and many people were doing okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of your children think of joining the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We walked back. [tape break] Very old by now. He was older. She was 83. Don Rafa, who had been one of the people in the betterment committee, was probably about 85 by now. He remembered me, Dona Betsy, Dona Betsy. I mean, it was absolutely amazing to return so many years later. And the little girl, Anna Banana, who had been six years old when Mike and I left the village so long ago in 1965. Anna Banana saw me and she said, Dona Betsy. And she was now a woman of 40 years old. And she came running down the street and jumped into my arms, almost knocking me over. And she goes, I'm Anna, I'm Anna Banana! And I go, Anna Banana!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, it was thrilling to see that people were still in their same houses and many people were doing okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of your children think of joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't. Both their parents, I can't imagine why they didn't. Well, the one, the one son, the oldest son, chose to go back to Guatemala and is living, is living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, that's pretty much it, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about the Peace Corps experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:679", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, it was thrilling to see that people were still in their same houses and many people were doing okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of your children think of joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't. Both their parents, I can't imagine why they didn't. Well, the one, the one son, the oldest son, chose to go back to Guatemala and is living, is living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, that's pretty much it, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would just, I would just like to mention that Peace Corps had a very profound impact on my life. And since Peace Corps, I have traveled to over 100 countries, over 60 of them on my bicycle. I have put together probably at least 50 slide presentations and for the last 20 years have educated students in the middle school where I teach about the world. So I feel that I have been doing a really excellent job of bringing the world back home, which was the third goal of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, very much so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00225:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't. Both their parents, I can't imagine why they didn't. Well, the one, the one son, the oldest son, chose to go back to Guatemala and is living, is living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, that's pretty much it, unless there's anything else you'd like to say about the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would just, I would just like to mention that Peace Corps had a very profound impact on my life. And since Peace Corps, I have traveled to over 100 countries, over 60 of them on my bicycle. I have put together probably at least 50 slide presentations and for the last 20 years have educated students in the middle school where I teach about the world. So I feel that I have been doing a really excellent job of bringing the world back home, which was the third goal of the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, very much so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, I won an award for the United States and Canada, for North America, for being a global teacher. And my award was I was allowed to choose six students and take them anywhere in the world that I wanted to take them for ten days, total paid. And so I chose six, five migrant students and one not migrant student, because I always worked with migrant kids. Had a huge contest at my school. They were all eighth graders, and took them to Spain, where Spanish is the number one language, not a second language. And we had an incredible trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's great. That's a wonderful place to stop."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.65405406850014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I actually thought I'd be going to Africa, so I think I listed that as first preference. But my first offer was to Belize, which is just across the Gulf of Mexico. They wanted me to run a drafting department since I'd never even worked in a drafting department. I wasn't too qualified for that. But my father also said, if you're going to go, go far away. And so the next offer, they came up with Fiji and that was a hard offer to turn down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know much about Fiji before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know anything about it. I didn't even know where it was, unlike today with the Fiji water. But that's a whole other issue. And we drank local water out of the creeks mixed with the special stuff called yanqona or kava, which will kill anything in it. And I drank that for two years and have a hardened stomach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied and you get this invitation to go to Fiji. What did your, what kind of reaction did you get from your friends and family? What do they think about you going into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm pretty sure, well, my parents were supportive. My father being in the military, he encouraged me to join the Peace Corps. Interesting point is that the military and the Peace Corps have the same mission. It's peace, just different ways of achieving it. So he encouraged me to go and dropped me off at the airport with my guitar slung over my shoulder and my cowboy hat. I’m sure I was a spectacle to the people in Fiji when I arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kind of training before taking off or where did you guys do your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.504504520555713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know anything about it. I didn't even know where it was, unlike today with the Fiji water. But that's a whole other issue. And we drank local water out of the creeks mixed with the special stuff called yanqona or kava, which will kill anything in it. And I drank that for two years and have a hardened stomach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you applied and you get this invitation to go to Fiji. What did your, what kind of reaction did you get from your friends and family? What do they think about you going into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm pretty sure, well, my parents were supportive. My father being in the military, he encouraged me to join the Peace Corps. Interesting point is that the military and the Peace Corps have the same mission. It's peace, just different ways of achieving it. So he encouraged me to go and dropped me off at the airport with my guitar slung over my shoulder and my cowboy hat. I’m sure I was a spectacle to the people in Fiji when I arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kind of training before taking off or where did you guys do your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we staged in San Francisco for a few days, but that was just to get kind of the basics down. And then it was a two month in-country training in Fiji, including a one or two week immersion in a village. And that was the best part of all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a village stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.560560578395236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm pretty sure, well, my parents were supportive. My father being in the military, he encouraged me to join the Peace Corps. Interesting point is that the military and the Peace Corps have the same mission. It's peace, just different ways of achieving it. So he encouraged me to go and dropped me off at the airport with my guitar slung over my shoulder and my cowboy hat. I’m sure I was a spectacle to the people in Fiji when I arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kind of training before taking off or where did you guys do your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we staged in San Francisco for a few days, but that was just to get kind of the basics down. And then it was a two month in-country training in Fiji, including a one or two week immersion in a village. And that was the best part of all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a village stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the village stay. Because if you didn't speak the language, you didn't speak. And I like to talk, so I got up to speed pretty quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, um, your impression when you when you first landed in the country? Do you remember that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.067289531550262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we staged in San Francisco for a few days, but that was just to get kind of the basics down. And then it was a two month in-country training in Fiji, including a one or two week immersion in a village. And that was the best part of all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a village stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the village stay. Because if you didn't speak the language, you didn't speak. And I like to talk, so I got up to speed pretty quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, um, your impression when you when you first landed in the country? Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I thought the plane had been misdirected to India because as I stepped out, everything was Indian from India. Fiji's history is that one hundred years ago, the British indentured a lot of laborers and they now live in a lot of the towns in Fiji. So the airport is in Nadi on the west side of Fiji, an all Indian community. But then they took us to a beautiful beach. It was the same beach used in the movie Return to Paradise, just a gorgeous South Pacific island beach. And I found the biggest stick I could find. And I carried it around with me through the bushes. I was just trekking around because they used to be cannibals and I thought there might still be cannibals there. That was my first impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't tell you during orientation that the cannibals were gone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.630321701722513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the village stay. Because if you didn't speak the language, you didn't speak. And I like to talk, so I got up to speed pretty quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, um, your impression when you when you first landed in the country? Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I thought the plane had been misdirected to India because as I stepped out, everything was Indian from India. Fiji's history is that one hundred years ago, the British indentured a lot of laborers and they now live in a lot of the towns in Fiji. So the airport is in Nadi on the west side of Fiji, an all Indian community. But then they took us to a beautiful beach. It was the same beach used in the movie Return to Paradise, just a gorgeous South Pacific island beach. And I found the biggest stick I could find. And I carried it around with me through the bushes. I was just trekking around because they used to be cannibals and I thought there might still be cannibals there. That was my first impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't tell you during orientation that the cannibals were gone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they might have, but I needed to check that out for myself. Second day was a little calmer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memorable experiences in training? So your training and consisted of language and culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.144801890802793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I thought the plane had been misdirected to India because as I stepped out, everything was Indian from India. Fiji's history is that one hundred years ago, the British indentured a lot of laborers and they now live in a lot of the towns in Fiji. So the airport is in Nadi on the west side of Fiji, an all Indian community. But then they took us to a beautiful beach. It was the same beach used in the movie Return to Paradise, just a gorgeous South Pacific island beach. And I found the biggest stick I could find. And I carried it around with me through the bushes. I was just trekking around because they used to be cannibals and I thought there might still be cannibals there. That was my first impression."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't tell you during orientation that the cannibals were gone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they might have, but I needed to check that out for myself. Second day was a little calmer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memorable experiences in training? So your training and consisted of language and culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Culture, yeah. There was only 14 people in our technical group, so it was a small, tight group. What stands out is we used to sit around playing music and playing volleyball. Yeah, but the language training was pretty intensive in the morning and then again in the afternoon. But I always found that after eating a big lunch, you just felt a little sluggish and just couldn't absorb the language as easy as in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you say the training was about two months and then you started on your job, reported for work. And where was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.494224323114214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they might have, but I needed to check that out for myself. Second day was a little calmer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any memorable experiences in training? So your training and consisted of language and culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Culture, yeah. There was only 14 people in our technical group, so it was a small, tight group. What stands out is we used to sit around playing music and playing volleyball. Yeah, but the language training was pretty intensive in the morning and then again in the afternoon. But I always found that after eating a big lunch, you just felt a little sluggish and just couldn't absorb the language as easy as in the morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you say the training was about two months and then you started on your job, reported for work. And where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was on the northernmost island in the Fiji group, Vanua Levu, means Long Island. And I was assigned to the Commissioner Northern Division's office. He is the one that oversees administrative and technical issues on the island, roads and bridges, and so on. So I was assigned to the northeastern part of the island to work in villages. And I met with the local chief and his council. And we just sit down and figure out what their needs were, housing or some other civil projects, like a sea landing jetty at one of the health resorts, oh not resorts, a little health station. Yeah, they have health stations scattered around Fiji. Um, so I had a variety of different experiences, building and self-help construction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And your living situation out there. Did you live in town or in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.424968300141003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was on the northernmost island in the Fiji group, Vanua Levu, means Long Island. And I was assigned to the Commissioner Northern Division's office. He is the one that oversees administrative and technical issues on the island, roads and bridges, and so on. So I was assigned to the northeastern part of the island to work in villages. And I met with the local chief and his council. And we just sit down and figure out what their needs were, housing or some other civil projects, like a sea landing jetty at one of the health resorts, oh not resorts, a little health station. Yeah, they have health stations scattered around Fiji. Um, so I had a variety of different experiences, building and self-help construction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And your living situation out there. Did you live in town or in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Yeah. We had a nice flat in town. I shared it with another Peace Corps volunteer who worked the other side of the island. That would be Peter. Then so he'd go one way and I'd go the other way and yeah, met back at the house in town in the middle. And a lot of other Peace Corps volunteers came by to visit us as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But then in the village, pretty much on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would you kind of based in town and you would have excursions out to the village or a few days out of town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.138853666823337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Yeah. We had a nice flat in town. I shared it with another Peace Corps volunteer who worked the other side of the island. That would be Peter. Then so he'd go one way and I'd go the other way and yeah, met back at the house in town in the middle. And a lot of other Peace Corps volunteers came by to visit us as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But then in the village, pretty much on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would you kind of based in town and you would have excursions out to the village or a few days out of town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The primary assignment was in the village, but we had the flat in town that we'd come back and regroup. Yes, so two years of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your interactions and with, uh, with the local folks. So your coworkers were Fijian and Indian, I imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.487615185359262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But then in the village, pretty much on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would you kind of based in town and you would have excursions out to the village or a few days out of town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The primary assignment was in the village, but we had the flat in town that we'd come back and regroup. Yes, so two years of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your interactions and with, uh, with the local folks. So your coworkers were Fijian and Indian, I imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah, in the government office. Lovely people. Fijians are the most friendly people on Earth, I'd say. But I studied Fijian language, so I really didn't get to know the Hindi half the community quite as much, but, um, two or three houses down from where I lived there, the secretary of the office worked there. And so they kind of took me in, sort of adopted me, if you would. But they spoke perfect English. They even had a typewriter. And so I do my memoirs on a typewriter at their house. And I used to visit them a couple times a week, I think. You know, it's easy to get homesick when you're away, but, you know, boy they just filled in the voids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no trouble getting accepted by the local community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.986239094843624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The primary assignment was in the village, but we had the flat in town that we'd come back and regroup. Yes, so two years of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your interactions and with, uh, with the local folks. So your coworkers were Fijian and Indian, I imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah, in the government office. Lovely people. Fijians are the most friendly people on Earth, I'd say. But I studied Fijian language, so I really didn't get to know the Hindi half the community quite as much, but, um, two or three houses down from where I lived there, the secretary of the office worked there. And so they kind of took me in, sort of adopted me, if you would. But they spoke perfect English. They even had a typewriter. And so I do my memoirs on a typewriter at their house. And I used to visit them a couple times a week, I think. You know, it's easy to get homesick when you're away, but, you know, boy they just filled in the voids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So no trouble getting accepted by the local community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also played in the band. So that got me accepted. I played bass guitar. We had a couple of little bands we'd play in town. They didn't have electricity out in the villages. They didn't have telephones, they didn't have TV. They did have newspapers. And they were a little old by the time they got out there. But, uh, but everybody communicated by the coconut wireless, which is just word of mouth and however fast the good stories travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So tell me about some of the projects. What are some of the most memorable projects you had out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.185513161651063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was originally signed for a housing project, low cost self- help housing projects. So they were cutting down hardwood timbers in the forest, sending them up the river to be milled, and then they'd send them back and we'd build Australian-style construction, which is just exposed framing, no drywall on the inside, metal roofs, no facilities. All the toilets were, you know, pit latrines outside. But because they needed to relocate this one village up from the river, um, actually made a whole development plan for them for a longer-term plan. And I don't know how much of that ever got built. We built the church, we built the first couple of houses and a community hall and then I left. So that was probably the most successful project. You don't really want to hear about the least successful project, do you? Since I brought it up. Well, I had to build a water reservoir for a school that was an elevated tank, but I forgot to line it with waterproof concrete on the inside and the efflorescence just oozed out on the outside. It was the ugliest thing. It looked like a cavern, you know, stalactite sunny outside. I hope my name didn't get associated with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think they were able to salvage it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, eventually, yeah. Somebody figured out, put some waterproofing on the inside. But I'm not a civil engineer, we got to do a little bit of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, it sounds like you had a lot of good interaction with the locals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I love the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um. And so you met your wife there also?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.872792401834513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, eventually, yeah. Somebody figured out, put some waterproofing on the inside. But I'm not a civil engineer, we got to do a little bit of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, it sounds like you had a lot of good interaction with the locals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I love the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um. And so you met your wife there also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. So like I said, she's Chinese American. She was a teacher on one end of the island. And so I would sometimes visit her on my way up because she lived at the end of the road. And from there we had to take a bus or walk or a horse. So this was back in the mid ‘80s. Oh no, I'm sorry, early ‘80s. ’78 through ’80. So, yeah, they probably come a long way since then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the roads at that time were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.74754711314946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I love the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um. And so you met your wife there also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. So like I said, she's Chinese American. She was a teacher on one end of the island. And so I would sometimes visit her on my way up because she lived at the end of the road. And from there we had to take a bus or walk or a horse. So this was back in the mid ‘80s. Oh no, I'm sorry, early ‘80s. ’78 through ’80. So, yeah, they probably come a long way since then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the roads at that time were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gravel and very dusty. Yeah, we’d take these open sided busses up and down the island. By the time you get to the end you just covered in dust, couldn’t even see your face. So we'd wear bandanas over our nose and mouth. And that's half the fun. And then eat a bunch of chili peppers on the other end to get your eyes to water and flush all that dirt out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And describe the island for me a little bit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 20.8306079034994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. So like I said, she's Chinese American. She was a teacher on one end of the island. And so I would sometimes visit her on my way up because she lived at the end of the road. And from there we had to take a bus or walk or a horse. So this was back in the mid ‘80s. Oh no, I'm sorry, early ‘80s. ’78 through ’80. So, yeah, they probably come a long way since then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the roads at that time were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gravel and very dusty. Yeah, we’d take these open sided busses up and down the island. By the time you get to the end you just covered in dust, couldn’t even see your face. So we'd wear bandanas over our nose and mouth. And that's half the fun. And then eat a bunch of chili peppers on the other end to get your eyes to water and flush all that dirt out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And describe the island for me a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Fiji is composed of anywhere from 300 to 800 islands, depending on the tide. So low tide, you got a lot of islands sticking up, which means they’re reefs, which also means they're extremely hazardous to sailing. But they're volcanic islands, so generally higher in the center. And then they go down to the ocean and are surrounded by coral reef. And some of the best diving in the world there. We used to snorkel a lot and just go swimming. Nice warm water, as you can imagine. But even in the wintertime, it gets cold. They'd be walking around in fur coats in their wintertime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, when you when you get acclimated to it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.256231003888223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gravel and very dusty. Yeah, we’d take these open sided busses up and down the island. By the time you get to the end you just covered in dust, couldn’t even see your face. So we'd wear bandanas over our nose and mouth. And that's half the fun. And then eat a bunch of chili peppers on the other end to get your eyes to water and flush all that dirt out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And describe the island for me a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Fiji is composed of anywhere from 300 to 800 islands, depending on the tide. So low tide, you got a lot of islands sticking up, which means they’re reefs, which also means they're extremely hazardous to sailing. But they're volcanic islands, so generally higher in the center. And then they go down to the ocean and are surrounded by coral reef. And some of the best diving in the world there. We used to snorkel a lot and just go swimming. Nice warm water, as you can imagine. But even in the wintertime, it gets cold. They'd be walking around in fur coats in their wintertime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, when you when you get acclimated to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Southern Hemisphere winter. So Christmas was really weird. The warmest time of year is when you get to celebrating Christmas and singing the songs and they love Christmas. The Fijians are mostly Christian, the Indians are half Hindu and half Muslim. And then there's an assortment of Europeans and Chinese or whatever else. But a mix of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with any of the other European people in the area, like the English people or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.618034448764691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Fiji is composed of anywhere from 300 to 800 islands, depending on the tide. So low tide, you got a lot of islands sticking up, which means they’re reefs, which also means they're extremely hazardous to sailing. But they're volcanic islands, so generally higher in the center. And then they go down to the ocean and are surrounded by coral reef. And some of the best diving in the world there. We used to snorkel a lot and just go swimming. Nice warm water, as you can imagine. But even in the wintertime, it gets cold. They'd be walking around in fur coats in their wintertime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, when you when you get acclimated to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Southern Hemisphere winter. So Christmas was really weird. The warmest time of year is when you get to celebrating Christmas and singing the songs and they love Christmas. The Fijians are mostly Christian, the Indians are half Hindu and half Muslim. And then there's an assortment of Europeans and Chinese or whatever else. But a mix of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with any of the other European people in the area, like the English people or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we didn't really work together. We more socialized together at the Grand Eastern Hotel, which was the central focus on the island. They had a volunteer program. Um, that's a little different because they got paid. I think we were making 125 dollars subsistence at the time, which was generally enough to buy food. Our local hosts provided the housing in the village. You know, we just slept on a on the map in somebody’s bure, which is a hut. Yeah, so fairly simple living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think the perception of the local people or the attitude towards Peace Corps was different, might have been different, than towards seeing other Europeans that were there? Did they understand that there was a difference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.9089271652941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Southern Hemisphere winter. So Christmas was really weird. The warmest time of year is when you get to celebrating Christmas and singing the songs and they love Christmas. The Fijians are mostly Christian, the Indians are half Hindu and half Muslim. And then there's an assortment of Europeans and Chinese or whatever else. But a mix of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with any of the other European people in the area, like the English people or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we didn't really work together. We more socialized together at the Grand Eastern Hotel, which was the central focus on the island. They had a volunteer program. Um, that's a little different because they got paid. I think we were making 125 dollars subsistence at the time, which was generally enough to buy food. Our local hosts provided the housing in the village. You know, we just slept on a on the map in somebody’s bure, which is a hut. Yeah, so fairly simple living."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think the perception of the local people or the attitude towards Peace Corps was different, might have been different, than towards seeing other Europeans that were there? Did they understand that there was a difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think they did. They all knew at least one Peace Corps volunteer that had been there previously. So I was Group 31. So they’d probably been there 10 years prior. And apparently we left, you know, everybody leaves with a good reputation, so they always welcome us back. Um, but the perception, the difference. Yeah, I think they tended to treat us like the Europeans, more colonialists, until they realize we're Americans and we let our hair down, you know, no pretense at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get, uh, did you get to travel around a lot? What did you do on your time off, vacation time and so forth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.652996500363086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think they did. They all knew at least one Peace Corps volunteer that had been there previously. So I was Group 31. So they’d probably been there 10 years prior. And apparently we left, you know, everybody leaves with a good reputation, so they always welcome us back. Um, but the perception, the difference. Yeah, I think they tended to treat us like the Europeans, more colonialists, until they realize we're Americans and we let our hair down, you know, no pretense at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get, uh, did you get to travel around a lot? What did you do on your time off, vacation time and so forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. So my first trip with my now ex-wife, we went to the outer island Rotuma, which is a Polynesian island in the Fiji group, which is Melanesian, and a typhoon blew through right after Christmas and we got stuck for a month. So don't ever let anybody tell you that being stranded on a tropical island is paradise cause it's not. So we ran out of money. We were staying with friends. We were just kind of picking up fruit along this road when we could. And it was pretty austere and we were happy to get home. But when we did, my wife had overextended her visa by a month. And I was AWOL. I got a message from the secretary of state, Cyrus Vance, saying parental inquiry, please reply."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because your parents hadn’t heard from you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They hadn't heard from me in over a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. Well, that's quite an experience. So did you stay in a village in Rotuma when you were stranded there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.614440555958984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. So my first trip with my now ex-wife, we went to the outer island Rotuma, which is a Polynesian island in the Fiji group, which is Melanesian, and a typhoon blew through right after Christmas and we got stuck for a month. So don't ever let anybody tell you that being stranded on a tropical island is paradise cause it's not. So we ran out of money. We were staying with friends. We were just kind of picking up fruit along this road when we could. And it was pretty austere and we were happy to get home. But when we did, my wife had overextended her visa by a month. And I was AWOL. I got a message from the secretary of state, Cyrus Vance, saying parental inquiry, please reply."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because your parents hadn’t heard from you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They hadn't heard from me in over a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. Well, that's quite an experience. So did you stay in a village in Rotuma when you were stranded there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we stayed with friends. First we stayed with the parents, and then we had to move out because they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were Rotuman friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.682711728843316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They hadn't heard from me in over a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. Well, that's quite an experience. So did you stay in a village in Rotuma when you were stranded there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we stayed with friends. First we stayed with the parents, and then we had to move out because they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were Rotuman friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rotuman friends, yes. We had met in Fiji, the guy was actually a police officer in Fiji. So we went to Rotuma and stayed with his parents. But we had to leave there because they let the chickens roost inside the house. And my fiancée got infested with chicken chicks in her hair. So she had to wash her hair with kerosene, using one of these little fine tooth comb to scrape all the bugs out of her hair. Oh, she must have smelled horrible, but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty common, to get lice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.869679698714796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we stayed with friends. First we stayed with the parents, and then we had to move out because they."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were Rotuman friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rotuman friends, yes. We had met in Fiji, the guy was actually a police officer in Fiji. So we went to Rotuma and stayed with his parents. But we had to leave there because they let the chickens roost inside the house. And my fiancée got infested with chicken chicks in her hair. So she had to wash her hair with kerosene, using one of these little fine tooth comb to scrape all the bugs out of her hair. Oh, she must have smelled horrible, but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty common, to get lice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I heard, yeah, but that was probably the worst of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed for the two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.188532998571995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rotuman friends, yes. We had met in Fiji, the guy was actually a police officer in Fiji. So we went to Rotuma and stayed with his parents. But we had to leave there because they let the chickens roost inside the house. And my fiancée got infested with chicken chicks in her hair. So she had to wash her hair with kerosene, using one of these little fine tooth comb to scrape all the bugs out of her hair. Oh, she must have smelled horrible, but uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was pretty common, to get lice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I heard, yeah, but that was probably the worst of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed for the two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years of normal tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think about extending?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.653925553968884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I heard, yeah, but that was probably the worst of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed for the two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years of normal tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think about extending?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any kind of reason why not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.05991728218765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years of normal tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think about extending?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any kind of reason why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, I was engaged at the time, when my fiancée left after nine months. I was kind of lonely and so I didn't hook up with any of the Fijian girls and they all wanted to, they all wanted to. So I was a good boy. And then when I left Fiji, I traveled back and met her back in Detroit. No regrets. Yeah, otherwise I might have a Fijian wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So looking back at, uh, your stay there, what were some of your, what do you think are some of your biggest accomplishments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.399908091319611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any kind of reason why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, I was engaged at the time, when my fiancée left after nine months. I was kind of lonely and so I didn't hook up with any of the Fijian girls and they all wanted to, they all wanted to. So I was a good boy. And then when I left Fiji, I traveled back and met her back in Detroit. No regrets. Yeah, otherwise I might have a Fijian wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So looking back at, uh, your stay there, what were some of your, what do you think are some of your biggest accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a new architect and green as could be, but I had some building experience, so I learned a lot about working with people, being practical, about design solutions, shipping materials, or some things that just shouldn't be built in coastal areas that have hurricanes. I come from Florida. Fiji is not much different. Um, but I also learned about some of the methods of construction that they've been doing for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, where they'll take hardwood timbers, char the ends of them so they're bug-proof, nothing to eat, and they bed them in sand so they drain well. And these timber structures have been in the ground for over 100 years. So I've learned a lot about, you know, modern construction through Fijians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learn something from them as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.888786768132901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah, I was engaged at the time, when my fiancée left after nine months. I was kind of lonely and so I didn't hook up with any of the Fijian girls and they all wanted to, they all wanted to. So I was a good boy. And then when I left Fiji, I traveled back and met her back in Detroit. No regrets. Yeah, otherwise I might have a Fijian wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So looking back at, uh, your stay there, what were some of your, what do you think are some of your biggest accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a new architect and green as could be, but I had some building experience, so I learned a lot about working with people, being practical, about design solutions, shipping materials, or some things that just shouldn't be built in coastal areas that have hurricanes. I come from Florida. Fiji is not much different. Um, but I also learned about some of the methods of construction that they've been doing for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, where they'll take hardwood timbers, char the ends of them so they're bug-proof, nothing to eat, and they bed them in sand so they drain well. And these timber structures have been in the ground for over 100 years. So I've learned a lot about, you know, modern construction through Fijians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learn something from them as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Here's a trivial point, though. The fro pick, that was designed in Fiji. Originally called the Fijian, yeah, the Afro pick. So the Fijians have had their influence on our society, not the least of which is Fiji water. Tastes better with kava in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about kava."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.987540853481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a new architect and green as could be, but I had some building experience, so I learned a lot about working with people, being practical, about design solutions, shipping materials, or some things that just shouldn't be built in coastal areas that have hurricanes. I come from Florida. Fiji is not much different. Um, but I also learned about some of the methods of construction that they've been doing for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, where they'll take hardwood timbers, char the ends of them so they're bug-proof, nothing to eat, and they bed them in sand so they drain well. And these timber structures have been in the ground for over 100 years. So I've learned a lot about, you know, modern construction through Fijians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learn something from them as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Here's a trivial point, though. The fro pick, that was designed in Fiji. Originally called the Fijian, yeah, the Afro pick. So the Fijians have had their influence on our society, not the least of which is Fiji water. Tastes better with kava in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about kava."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kava is a pepper root. Don’t know if it's indigenous to just the Pacific islands, but different groups of islands drink it differently. In Fiji, it's ceremonial. So they drink it for weddings, funerals, divination of high chiefs, and so on. And they treat it with a lot of respect. You have to continue drinking until it's all gone or, you know, other traditions like that. It makes you, according to James Michener, the author of Hawaii, it makes you feel strong and important. So that's why they use it for these important meetings where you're sitting around drinking with a chief. And because they didn't have TV at the time, we just sit around telling stories all night long. And I'm pretty sure that by the end of the evening, the stories got better and better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was kind of the social life then, gathering around."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.20837872609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Here's a trivial point, though. The fro pick, that was designed in Fiji. Originally called the Fijian, yeah, the Afro pick. So the Fijians have had their influence on our society, not the least of which is Fiji water. Tastes better with kava in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about kava."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kava is a pepper root. Don’t know if it's indigenous to just the Pacific islands, but different groups of islands drink it differently. In Fiji, it's ceremonial. So they drink it for weddings, funerals, divination of high chiefs, and so on. And they treat it with a lot of respect. You have to continue drinking until it's all gone or, you know, other traditions like that. It makes you, according to James Michener, the author of Hawaii, it makes you feel strong and important. So that's why they use it for these important meetings where you're sitting around drinking with a chief. And because they didn't have TV at the time, we just sit around telling stories all night long. And I'm pretty sure that by the end of the evening, the stories got better and better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was kind of the social life then, gathering around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for men. Now, the women, they were back in the kitchen cooking and chatting. So my fiancée, she got kind of rushed to the women's side, even though she'd sneak back out and drink grog with the men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even being she wasn't Fijian, they still treated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.4537541401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, kava is a pepper root. Don’t know if it's indigenous to just the Pacific islands, but different groups of islands drink it differently. In Fiji, it's ceremonial. So they drink it for weddings, funerals, divination of high chiefs, and so on. And they treat it with a lot of respect. You have to continue drinking until it's all gone or, you know, other traditions like that. It makes you, according to James Michener, the author of Hawaii, it makes you feel strong and important. So that's why they use it for these important meetings where you're sitting around drinking with a chief. And because they didn't have TV at the time, we just sit around telling stories all night long. And I'm pretty sure that by the end of the evening, the stories got better and better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was kind of the social life then, gathering around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for men. Now, the women, they were back in the kitchen cooking and chatting. So my fiancée, she got kind of rushed to the women's side, even though she'd sneak back out and drink grog with the men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even being she wasn't Fijian, they still treated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was Chinese. They didn't know the difference. And as well for an African-American volunteer, they treated her like one of the indigenous locals. So, yeah, we were treated more like colonialists, being white Europeans. Maybe that's changed now some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since, um, okay, so you left Peace Corps in 1980, it's been a long time. Have you kept in touch with, uh, with friends and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.726393489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for men. Now, the women, they were back in the kitchen cooking and chatting. So my fiancée, she got kind of rushed to the women's side, even though she'd sneak back out and drink grog with the men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even being she wasn't Fijian, they still treated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was Chinese. They didn't know the difference. And as well for an African-American volunteer, they treated her like one of the indigenous locals. So, yeah, we were treated more like colonialists, being white Europeans. Maybe that's changed now some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since, um, okay, so you left Peace Corps in 1980, it's been a long time. Have you kept in touch with, uh, with friends and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've certainly kept in touch with other Peace Corps volunteers. I've finally lost contact with the one family that I was writing to, um, up to about five years ago. They had a big hurricane or a typhoon and they had asked for some money, and I believe they sent something to help them out a little bit. But, um, since then, I've just lost touch. And I don't know that I'll ever get back there again. It's probably on my bucket list, but I might be an old man when I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you haven't been back since?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.14043721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was Chinese. They didn't know the difference. And as well for an African-American volunteer, they treated her like one of the indigenous locals. So, yeah, we were treated more like colonialists, being white Europeans. Maybe that's changed now some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And since, um, okay, so you left Peace Corps in 1980, it's been a long time. Have you kept in touch with, uh, with friends and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've certainly kept in touch with other Peace Corps volunteers. I've finally lost contact with the one family that I was writing to, um, up to about five years ago. They had a big hurricane or a typhoon and they had asked for some money, and I believe they sent something to help them out a little bit. But, um, since then, I've just lost touch. And I don't know that I'll ever get back there again. It's probably on my bucket list, but I might be an old man when I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you haven't been back since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just think about a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have traveled a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.7115969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've certainly kept in touch with other Peace Corps volunteers. I've finally lost contact with the one family that I was writing to, um, up to about five years ago. They had a big hurricane or a typhoon and they had asked for some money, and I believe they sent something to help them out a little bit. But, um, since then, I've just lost touch. And I don't know that I'll ever get back there again. It's probably on my bucket list, but I might be an old man when I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you haven't been back since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just think about a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have traveled a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the really unique things about the things that made Fiji different than other places you traveled?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.568441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just think about a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have traveled a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the really unique things about the things that made Fiji different than other places you traveled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me compare it to Okinawa, where I lived for four years. So between the Fijians and the Okinawans, I'd say the friendliest people on Earth. Poor Okinawans, they just got stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time during the war years. But even the Fijians were involved in the war, and the Solomons, and the Japanese were terribly afraid of them because they thought they were cannibals. And if they were captured, they'd be eaten. So that was probably the most interesting thing about Fiji is their cannibalistic history, but that only goes back about one hundred years ago. The last guy to be eaten was John Savage, because he loaned his comb to the chief and he went and touched the chief's head as he retrieved his comb. And that was his last stand. I think they boiled him. Their biggest insult would be, we wouldn't even want to eat you. Oh, please, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a good thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.520489999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the really unique things about the things that made Fiji different than other places you traveled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me compare it to Okinawa, where I lived for four years. So between the Fijians and the Okinawans, I'd say the friendliest people on Earth. Poor Okinawans, they just got stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time during the war years. But even the Fijians were involved in the war, and the Solomons, and the Japanese were terribly afraid of them because they thought they were cannibals. And if they were captured, they'd be eaten. So that was probably the most interesting thing about Fiji is their cannibalistic history, but that only goes back about one hundred years ago. The last guy to be eaten was John Savage, because he loaned his comb to the chief and he went and touched the chief's head as he retrieved his comb. And that was his last stand. I think they boiled him. Their biggest insult would be, we wouldn't even want to eat you. Oh, please, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's all said in jest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you haven't kept in touch with the Peace Corps RPCV community and still involved somewhat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.3561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me compare it to Okinawa, where I lived for four years. So between the Fijians and the Okinawans, I'd say the friendliest people on Earth. Poor Okinawans, they just got stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time during the war years. But even the Fijians were involved in the war, and the Solomons, and the Japanese were terribly afraid of them because they thought they were cannibals. And if they were captured, they'd be eaten. So that was probably the most interesting thing about Fiji is their cannibalistic history, but that only goes back about one hundred years ago. The last guy to be eaten was John Savage, because he loaned his comb to the chief and he went and touched the chief's head as he retrieved his comb. And that was his last stand. I think they boiled him. Their biggest insult would be, we wouldn't even want to eat you. Oh, please, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's all said in jest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you haven't kept in touch with the Peace Corps RPCV community and still involved somewhat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's what brings me out here to Palo Alto, is a reunion with the other Peace Corps volunteers from many, many years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so in light of the three goals of Peace Corps, you know, providing assistance and promoting better understanding. Do you think you know from the personal connections that you made, that maybe you did foster some better understanding?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's all said in jest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you haven't kept in touch with the Peace Corps RPCV community and still involved somewhat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's what brings me out here to Palo Alto, is a reunion with the other Peace Corps volunteers from many, many years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so in light of the three goals of Peace Corps, you know, providing assistance and promoting better understanding. Do you think you know from the personal connections that you made, that maybe you did foster some better understanding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure hope so. I sure hope so, because we're not stuffy. We’re Americans. We're not as proper as the English, Australians, New Zealanders. We're just, we're different somehow. And I hope that conveyed. And I've got a lot of Fijian friends here in California, Sacramento, Monterey, and as soon as we meet each other and say, bulla, it's like we're best friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you're sitting around drinking with your friends, are there stories about Fiji that you like to tell? What is your favorite Fiji story?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, that's what brings me out here to Palo Alto, is a reunion with the other Peace Corps volunteers from many, many years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so in light of the three goals of Peace Corps, you know, providing assistance and promoting better understanding. Do you think you know from the personal connections that you made, that maybe you did foster some better understanding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure hope so. I sure hope so, because we're not stuffy. We’re Americans. We're not as proper as the English, Australians, New Zealanders. We're just, we're different somehow. And I hope that conveyed. And I've got a lot of Fijian friends here in California, Sacramento, Monterey, and as soon as we meet each other and say, bulla, it's like we're best friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you're sitting around drinking with your friends, are there stories about Fiji that you like to tell? What is your favorite Fiji story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Favorite Fiji story? Well, I guess I'll use the one I mentioned the other day where the ambassador to Fiji came down for a conference with our director. And we were at a very nice luxury resort. And I was just starting to take interest in my fiancée. And I knocked on the door of one of the apartments and said, Irene, Irene! And the lady came to the door and says, no, she's not here, this is the ambassador's unit. Oh well, I got another one from Fiji. So I had to measure a sea landing jetty and I didn't have a long measuring tape. So I took a 10 foot stick and I was out there in the low tide, doing an end over end, doing an old measuring device to see how far out in the water I had to go with this rock jetty. And all the Fijians were up on the hill watching me dance under the full moon. They thought I was a devil and told me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I wonder how they would have done it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure hope so. I sure hope so, because we're not stuffy. We’re Americans. We're not as proper as the English, Australians, New Zealanders. We're just, we're different somehow. And I hope that conveyed. And I've got a lot of Fijian friends here in California, Sacramento, Monterey, and as soon as we meet each other and say, bulla, it's like we're best friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you're sitting around drinking with your friends, are there stories about Fiji that you like to tell? What is your favorite Fiji story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Favorite Fiji story? Well, I guess I'll use the one I mentioned the other day where the ambassador to Fiji came down for a conference with our director. And we were at a very nice luxury resort. And I was just starting to take interest in my fiancée. And I knocked on the door of one of the apartments and said, Irene, Irene! And the lady came to the door and says, no, she's not here, this is the ambassador's unit. Oh well, I got another one from Fiji. So I had to measure a sea landing jetty and I didn't have a long measuring tape. So I took a 10 foot stick and I was out there in the low tide, doing an end over end, doing an old measuring device to see how far out in the water I had to go with this rock jetty. And all the Fijians were up on the hill watching me dance under the full moon. They thought I was a devil and told me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I wonder how they would have done it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, but I'm sure they were amused."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see a lot of your project completed, like the jetty?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Favorite Fiji story? Well, I guess I'll use the one I mentioned the other day where the ambassador to Fiji came down for a conference with our director. And we were at a very nice luxury resort. And I was just starting to take interest in my fiancée. And I knocked on the door of one of the apartments and said, Irene, Irene! And the lady came to the door and says, no, she's not here, this is the ambassador's unit. Oh well, I got another one from Fiji. So I had to measure a sea landing jetty and I didn't have a long measuring tape. So I took a 10 foot stick and I was out there in the low tide, doing an end over end, doing an old measuring device to see how far out in the water I had to go with this rock jetty. And all the Fijians were up on the hill watching me dance under the full moon. They thought I was a devil and told me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I wonder how they would have done it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, but I'm sure they were amused."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see a lot of your project completed, like the jetty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most of them were small projects. And some were obviously ongoing with housing and such. But yeah, you know, I think I did some good in the housing area, but I probably did more good in the grassroots diplomacy know. I'm sure. Yeah. Go to Fiji if you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. Anything else you want to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00093:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, but I'm sure they were amused."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to see a lot of your project completed, like the jetty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, most of them were small projects. And some were obviously ongoing with housing and such. But yeah, you know, I think I did some good in the housing area, but I probably did more good in the grassroots diplomacy know. I'm sure. Yeah. Go to Fiji if you can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. Anything else you want to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure there's a lot more to add, but for sake of time and the record, I think I'll call it a day, but thank you for the interview. It's my honor to have served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well thank you Jack. I appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00535:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 59, "return_to_go": 355.26720884102787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be with all of you anytime."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. We appreciate that. We're happy to be with you, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought today we'd talk about Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess to start out, talk a little bit about your involvement in training the first class of Shuttle astronauts and how that came about, and what you talked with them about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.55429605079838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Denver, Colorado, and spent the first six years in Denver and then came back to Wisconsin. My father was from Gays Mills, Wisconsin, west of Madison, and he was in the Navy and met my mother in Norfolk, Virginia, at a big naval base. And so my mother and father first went to Colorado because of some associations with family on my mother's side. But then we came back to, uh, to Wisconsin and to Madison. So I really see Madison as where I grew up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm still here. Left for a few years but came back because we had some small children and just thought it's a great place to raise kids and really love the east side of Madison. And I grew up on the far east side of Madison, which at that time was very working class. There's a real split and still is in Madison today between the working class and a much more, the educated, the university, government side of town. So my dad worked at Oscar Meyer and people at P.F. Schultz, really kind of industrial side of town. La Follette High School is where I went to high school, and that was, I would say, 98, 99 percent white."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was here, you know, I had a class of close to 600 kids in my graduating class. And I, I think we had two African Americans, maybe a couple Asians, and a couple of Hispanics in a class that size. So very, very homogeneous, very, very, you know, like working class Democratic conservative in terms of the social side of it in many ways. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And when you were in high school, what did you do outside of academics?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.726995611998198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm still here. Left for a few years but came back because we had some small children and just thought it's a great place to raise kids and really love the east side of Madison. And I grew up on the far east side of Madison, which at that time was very working class. There's a real split and still is in Madison today between the working class and a much more, the educated, the university, government side of town. So my dad worked at Oscar Meyer and people at P.F. Schultz, really kind of industrial side of town. La Follette High School is where I went to high school, and that was, I would say, 98, 99 percent white."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was here, you know, I had a class of close to 600 kids in my graduating class. And I, I think we had two African Americans, maybe a couple Asians, and a couple of Hispanics in a class that size. So very, very homogeneous, very, very, you know, like working class Democratic conservative in terms of the social side of it in many ways. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And when you were in high school, what did you do outside of academics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sports. I was very much into sports, I played football, basketball, and baseball. I probably had a pretty typical kind of childhood growing up. I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have brothers and sisters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.69666179110911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I was here, you know, I had a class of close to 600 kids in my graduating class. And I, I think we had two African Americans, maybe a couple Asians, and a couple of Hispanics in a class that size. So very, very homogeneous, very, very, you know, like working class Democratic conservative in terms of the social side of it in many ways. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And when you were in high school, what did you do outside of academics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sports. I was very much into sports, I played football, basketball, and baseball. I probably had a pretty typical kind of childhood growing up. I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have brothers and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an older brother that was a couple of years older than I was. He was two years, yeah, almost two years almost exactly older than I was. And that was just the two of us and my mother and father."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your mother stayed home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.662957545676788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sports. I was very much into sports, I played football, basketball, and baseball. I probably had a pretty typical kind of childhood growing up. I would say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have brothers and sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an older brother that was a couple of years older than I was. He was two years, yeah, almost two years almost exactly older than I was. And that was just the two of us and my mother and father."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your mother stayed home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my mother worked. She worked for the telephone company for years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh, no kidding."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.73661949519643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had an older brother that was a couple of years older than I was. He was two years, yeah, almost two years almost exactly older than I was. And that was just the two of us and my mother and father."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your mother stayed home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my mother worked. She worked for the telephone company for years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh, no kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was with the telephone company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did mine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.785949994069668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was with the telephone company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did mine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? Huh. Yeah. So she worked at the telephone company and my dad had, my dad was one of these dreamers that was always trying to, to, in hindsight I understood it, trying to, to get more for the family. So he was in and out of jobs. But he, he, like I said, worked at Oscar Mayer on the, on the east side, the meatpacking plant at the time, and had other various jobs. He passed away when I was 19."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was pretty, pretty young when he passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You would have been in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.762166660077408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? Huh. Yeah. So she worked at the telephone company and my dad had, my dad was one of these dreamers that was always trying to, to, in hindsight I understood it, trying to, to get more for the family. So he was in and out of jobs. But he, he, like I said, worked at Oscar Mayer on the, on the east side, the meatpacking plant at the time, and had other various jobs. He passed away when I was 19."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was pretty, pretty young when he passed away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You would have been in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just, I was a sophomore in college actually, and I had gone my first year of college to Eau Claire, Wisconsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's at University of Wisconsin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.793095555661738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire, up in northern Wisconsin. And then my sophomore year, I went out to Lewis Clark State out in Idaho and took classes there and at the University of Idaho, because I had relatives there and always loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably would have stayed if it wasn't for my father passing away and coming back and trying, you know, trying to support my mother and being with my mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So eventually then graduated from University of Wisconsin, Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what, what did you major in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.547883950735264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably would have stayed if it wasn't for my father passing away and coming back and trying, you know, trying to support my mother and being with my mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So eventually then graduated from University of Wisconsin, Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what, what did you major in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in broad field social studies, it was called. But I was very interested in kind of the connection of education and agriculture in a kind of more holistic sense even back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. And you still are."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.386537723039183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So eventually then graduated from University of Wisconsin, Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what, what did you major in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in broad field social studies, it was called. But I was very interested in kind of the connection of education and agriculture in a kind of more holistic sense even back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. And you still are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I still am. I still am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did your, um, did your family have a chance to travel together like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.318375247821313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in broad field social studies, it was called. But I was very interested in kind of the connection of education and agriculture in a kind of more holistic sense even back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. And you still are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I still am. I still am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did your, um, did your family have a chance to travel together like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. We didn't do, a little bit in northern Wisconsin, but my mother, I think, was really kind of the instigator of my wanting to explore the world. She always talked about, you know, going beyond where you are and there's a big world out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, good for her."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.035031170149768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. We didn't do, a little bit in northern Wisconsin, but my mother, I think, was really kind of the instigator of my wanting to explore the world. She always talked about, you know, going beyond where you are and there's a big world out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow, good for her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And finding out. So I really do attribute my going overseas and international to my mother. My first connection with Peace Corps is my best friend in high school's older brother. Um, I knew Hank, you know, somewhat well before he left, but he left and was a Peace Corps volunteer in then Zaire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we just started writing back and forth. And his."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While he was in Zaire?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.04324835820959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we just started writing back and forth. And his."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While he was in Zaire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While he was in Zaire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so his stories of what he was doing, who he was working with, being in Africa just completely intrigued me and completely stimulated my interest in saying, I've got to go there. I want to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.1591648424551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While he was in Zaire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so his stories of what he was doing, who he was working with, being in Africa just completely intrigued me and completely stimulated my interest in saying, I've got to go there. I want to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went through college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you study languages, picturing yourself speaking something else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.065738713839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so his stories of what he was doing, who he was working with, being in Africa just completely intrigued me and completely stimulated my interest in saying, I've got to go there. I want to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went through college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you study languages, picturing yourself speaking something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I didn't. Matter of fact, I consider myself pretty, pretty insufficient in learning language. It intimidated me I think at the time. I did have, obviously as a Peace Corps volunteer, have to learn language. I don't know how well I spoke Sesotho, though when I speak it now, and we'll get to being in Lesotho, I still, some of it comes back.\n\nAnd I just think that that language is one of those key things to being comfortable or as comfortable as you can in a foreign country is knowing the language. And you just, if you don't know the language, you miss out on so much, and not only just the connections you make with people, but understanding how people look at the world a little bit better because I think that's one of the challenges of being overseas, is trying to figure out how are people looking at their own situations. And, you know, after now over 30 years going to Africa and sub-Saharan Africa, in many ways, I still don't exactly know how people do things and how they figure out livelihoods in that, because it just, it's just so, it's just out of my realm, out of my norm but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And language has something to do with figuring that out. But maybe one has to stay in a country for longer than just two years to really figure out in depth how things really work, how decisions get made."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.654075162077427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, for me, Peace Corps at the time, I really didn't even think about it in a broad sense. I thought about going to someplace in sub-Saharan Africa because that's where I wanted to go. I didn't think about all the other connections you can have as a Peace Corps volunteer. I thought, okay, I'll go to some village and I'll meet the people there. But in that village that I went to, one of my best friends was a Sri Lankan. There was a South African that was living there. There was a whole Irish community because there was a pony project in Lesotho that I got to know. And then there are the returned Peace Corps volunteers or the volunteers that were there in my group who became some of my best friends and still are. We still get together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's, it's an international experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "International."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's much broader than what we thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be. In your application to Peace Corps, and you must have applied, what, in your senior year of college maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.393416846752697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "International."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's much broader than what we thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be. In your application to Peace Corps, and you must have applied, what, in your senior year of college maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You, do you remember if they asked the question of, um, where you would prefer to be sent if you had, what would be your first choice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.214907607502996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be. In your application to Peace Corps, and you must have applied, what, in your senior year of college maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You, do you remember if they asked the question of, um, where you would prefer to be sent if you had, what would be your first choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got to say sub-Saharan Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.26873471536762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, and that's really where I wanted, I didn't, I didn't really want to go anyplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I, I answered that question saying, yes, Latin America, because I lived in Chicago and there were millions of people who spoke Spanish. And so I got the invitation to train for Nigeria. You got exactly what you wanted. That's good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.187483017075133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, and that's really where I wanted, I didn't, I didn't really want to go anyplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I, I answered that question saying, yes, Latin America, because I lived in Chicago and there were millions of people who spoke Spanish. And so I got the invitation to train for Nigeria. You got exactly what you wanted. That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my best friend in Peace Corps, Michael de Damo was his name, who's since passed away, he was talking about languages. He just had a gift with languages. So he was fluent in French. So he wanted to definitely go to Francophone Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.231460514907571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my best friend in Peace Corps, Michael de Damo was his name, who's since passed away, he was talking about languages. He just had a gift with languages. So he was fluent in French. So he wanted to definitely go to Francophone Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he ended up with Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is Anglophone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody speaks French."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.631432734453792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is Anglophone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody speaks French."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody speaks French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, in hindsight, it was, it was just an incredible gift to me that that happened because he was such an incredible, incredible person. But yeah, it's one of those things. It's not an exact science. And I can get into this more about my changes and thoughts about really what to me is important about Peace Corps and why it's, to me, it's more, even more critical today than it was when I was there, given the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's save that reflection for a while. But let's not abandon it. So you, you received the, uh, the invitation to train and you say goodbye to your mom and dad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.582015721547891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, in hindsight, it was, it was just an incredible gift to me that that happened because he was such an incredible, incredible person. But yeah, it's one of those things. It's not an exact science. And I can get into this more about my changes and thoughts about really what to me is important about Peace Corps and why it's, to me, it's more, even more critical today than it was when I was there, given the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's save that reflection for a while. But let's not abandon it. So you, you received the, uh, the invitation to train and you say goodbye to your mom and dad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was interesting because I was waiting. I didn't really, I had like a year. They said you can go in and but it was like a year before I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I ended up going out to visit a cousin out in Seattle, Washington. And then I had a very, this friend of mine from high school whose brother had been a Peace Corps volunteer. Kurt Mueller had just gotten his first job with Hormel, the meat packing place, as a salesman down in Austin, Texas. So I said, I'll go down to Austin, Texas. So I drove down to Austin, Texas, from Seattle and stayed down there for almost nine months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at Hormel too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.32347619944184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I ended up going out to visit a cousin out in Seattle, Washington. And then I had a very, this friend of mine from high school whose brother had been a Peace Corps volunteer. Kurt Mueller had just gotten his first job with Hormel, the meat packing place, as a salesman down in Austin, Texas. So I said, I'll go down to Austin, Texas. So I drove down to Austin, Texas, from Seattle and stayed down there for almost nine months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at Hormel too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I worked in various jobs just to kind of get by. And it was, it was wonderful. You know, at that time of your life, you don't need a whole lot. And Kurt had this great job at the time that he was doing so I could live with him. So it was a wonderful experience in between as I was waiting for my time to go in. And at that time they had these, you know, Peace Corps had these programs where it was almost like a week-long job interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where, and they were called, I want to say CRESTs, which was the acronym. I can't remember, CATs and CRESTs. But they, in, it was, it was actually Halloween that we went out to Washington. All of us flew to Washington. And then they put us in busses and we went out to a place called Cappahosic, Virginia, which is the birthplace I think of the NAACP. Beautiful place out in the countryside but you're very isolated. And you would have these what they called intact groups where you were with a group of other people wanting to go into Peace Corps and you had two trainers and you would go through these exercises all day long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people would be in your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.581640221602044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I worked in various jobs just to kind of get by. And it was, it was wonderful. You know, at that time of your life, you don't need a whole lot. And Kurt had this great job at the time that he was doing so I could live with him. So it was a wonderful experience in between as I was waiting for my time to go in. And at that time they had these, you know, Peace Corps had these programs where it was almost like a week-long job interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where, and they were called, I want to say CRESTs, which was the acronym. I can't remember, CATs and CRESTs. But they, in, it was, it was actually Halloween that we went out to Washington. All of us flew to Washington. And then they put us in busses and we went out to a place called Cappahosic, Virginia, which is the birthplace I think of the NAACP. Beautiful place out in the countryside but you're very isolated. And you would have these what they called intact groups where you were with a group of other people wanting to go into Peace Corps and you had two trainers and you would go through these exercises all day long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people would be in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think at the time there was, that was like 60 some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Divided up into smaller groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.868489135113382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where, and they were called, I want to say CRESTs, which was the acronym. I can't remember, CATs and CRESTs. But they, in, it was, it was actually Halloween that we went out to Washington. All of us flew to Washington. And then they put us in busses and we went out to a place called Cappahosic, Virginia, which is the birthplace I think of the NAACP. Beautiful place out in the countryside but you're very isolated. And you would have these what they called intact groups where you were with a group of other people wanting to go into Peace Corps and you had two trainers and you would go through these exercises all day long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people would be in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think at the time there was, that was like 60 some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Divided up into smaller groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And divided up into smaller groups. So you had all these intact groups that you went with and they had exercises. They had these different almost kind of scenarios and case studies, and you watched films and they even said, you know, even when you're eating, when you're interacting, we're watching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So were they talking about deselection?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.18721015012598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think at the time there was, that was like 60 some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Divided up into smaller groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And divided up into smaller groups. So you had all these intact groups that you went with and they had exercises. They had these different almost kind of scenarios and case studies, and you watched films and they even said, you know, even when you're eating, when you're interacting, we're watching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So were they talking about deselection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only some of you will go and some of you will not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.934827345834543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only some of you will go and some of you will not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So actually, the person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was, it was fairly intimidating because you're wondering how honest can you be if you really have a reaction to something because you don't know who these people are really. You don't know how they're interpreting it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all these other people, these 60 other people. Was it a mixed group, men and women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.372030384260603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. So actually, the person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was, it was fairly intimidating because you're wondering how honest can you be if you really have a reaction to something because you don't know who these people are really. You don't know how they're interpreting it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all these other people, these 60 other people. Was it a mixed group, men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men and women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.857811538067337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was, it was fairly intimidating because you're wondering how honest can you be if you really have a reaction to something because you don't know who these people are really. You don't know how they're interpreting it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all these other people, these 60 other people. Was it a mixed group, men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men and women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, one married couple. And that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were all expecting to go to Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3975683756303745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men and women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, one married couple. And that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were all expecting to go to Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If this week of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.99729819514486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, one married couple. And that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were all expecting to go to Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If this week of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all for Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.169503944623284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all for Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. How interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, there was a couple African American. No, one African American, I believe, in the group if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody else was white?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.743893271803649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, there was a couple African American. No, one African American, I believe, in the group if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody else was white?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Mm hmm. And so. And that was a part of it. You're going to Lesotho, which is stuck in the middle of South Africa. Apartheid is alive and well. And so a lot of it was, and he was actually deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The African American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.091226261485986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Mm hmm. And so. And that was a part of it. You're going to Lesotho, which is stuck in the middle of South Africa. Apartheid is alive and well. And so a lot of it was, and he was actually deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The African American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Because of, and again, I'm, I don't know the whole story, but part of it was because, you know, the questions of how would you handle these situations if you're confronted, which you have to be. Lesotho is like an island in the middle of South Africa, with these situations of whites, when you have to go into South Africa to do things. And his reaction was pretty strong about what he wouldn't put up with and what he wouldn't do. And coming from his perspective, I can understand that. But he's also going to South Africa and so he was deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my best friend from that, that I got closest to, was my roommate, was deselected. And part of that is because, um, he was quiet. And they told you right up front, no data is data. So and, you know, I don't, I thought it was a mistake because I thought he would be an incredible volunteer. But he was also deselected. And then the way it was handled was done very poorly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all those decisions about being selected or deselected were made on the basis of that one first week?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.656918068317761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Because of, and again, I'm, I don't know the whole story, but part of it was because, you know, the questions of how would you handle these situations if you're confronted, which you have to be. Lesotho is like an island in the middle of South Africa, with these situations of whites, when you have to go into South Africa to do things. And his reaction was pretty strong about what he wouldn't put up with and what he wouldn't do. And coming from his perspective, I can understand that. But he's also going to South Africa and so he was deselected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my best friend from that, that I got closest to, was my roommate, was deselected. And part of that is because, um, he was quiet. And they told you right up front, no data is data. So and, you know, I don't, I thought it was a mistake because I thought he would be an incredible volunteer. But he was also deselected. And then the way it was handled was done very poorly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all those decisions about being selected or deselected were made on the basis of that one first week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, in your, yeah. You got there and you were, how that worked is you went through this week and the last day you were called in by yourself and you had your, your two intact leaders there and they talked to you about things that they saw and they said and we've, you know, for me they said we think you'll be a good Peace Corps volunteer. And so you, you're out of there. I hate it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.285464520353068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my best friend from that, that I got closest to, was my roommate, was deselected. And part of that is because, um, he was quiet. And they told you right up front, no data is data. So and, you know, I don't, I thought it was a mistake because I thought he would be an incredible volunteer. But he was also deselected. And then the way it was handled was done very poorly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all those decisions about being selected or deselected were made on the basis of that one first week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, in your, yeah. You got there and you were, how that worked is you went through this week and the last day you were called in by yourself and you had your, your two intact leaders there and they talked to you about things that they saw and they said and we've, you know, for me they said we think you'll be a good Peace Corps volunteer. And so you, you're out of there. I hate it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then you had other people that were in tears coming out and they put us all in the same bus back to Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.872738355947853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, in your, yeah. You got there and you were, how that worked is you went through this week and the last day you were called in by yourself and you had your, your two intact leaders there and they talked to you about things that they saw and they said and we've, you know, for me they said we think you'll be a good Peace Corps volunteer. And so you, you're out of there. I hate it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then you had other people that were in tears coming out and they put us all in the same bus back to Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So how do you? You're in your, you know, I was euphoric. So were all these other people. And you have this other group. How do you, you're sitting there going, you know, I can't be excited. This person's been devastated. So it was, it was a really horrible, horrible part. That part of it was horrible. That week was actually lovely. It was just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they asked you to evaluate your peers at any point during that week?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.525264839942059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then you had other people that were in tears coming out and they put us all in the same bus back to Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So how do you? You're in your, you know, I was euphoric. So were all these other people. And you have this other group. How do you, you're sitting there going, you know, I can't be excited. This person's been devastated. So it was, it was a really horrible, horrible part. That part of it was horrible. That week was actually lovely. It was just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they asked you to evaluate your peers at any point during that week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all the trainers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.716412674817639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Evaluating you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah. So that was, that was, that was intense. And so but then you had a month. They sent you back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.291867499774863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a month before, when that was over to the time we left. So you had this month of getting ready and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Packing up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Packing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They gave you a list of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.374303840569082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They give you a list, you know, Peace Corps is very good at providing those, that type, that type of information. I got to learn more about, you know, when I first went into it, I thought it was \"Le-so-to\" I was going to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know anything about it. They had a little phrase book. You could start to learn some of the greetings and but you went back and then we kept in contact with each other that were going by calling and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we had a month, and four of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were going to go now from the sixty?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.638115378410092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know anything about it. They had a little phrase book. You could start to learn some of the greetings and but you went back and then we kept in contact with each other that were going by calling and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we had a month, and four of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you were going to go now from the sixty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably about 45 or 46."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So maybe 15 people were deselected at the time. So you had a month at home. What were your, your mom was, I'm sure, quite supportive. You've given an indication that she's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.358182960782019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was, but she was also, you know, the real, the realization that I was going to be gone for two plus years and communication at that time, as we talked about, Phyllis, was a lot different than it is today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was also really, she was excited for me, but at the same time, she was frightened. I was going to Africa. What did you know about Africa? All these images that sadly haven't changed all that much from today, I think, in terms of our knowledge of what Africa is. We still get things so distorted. We're all there. So she was excited and at the time my mother had gotten remarried. My father had passed away several years before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She met a wonderful guy. So that made me feel better about going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, because you wouldn't have to worry about your mom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.286869956424464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was also really, she was excited for me, but at the same time, she was frightened. I was going to Africa. What did you know about Africa? All these images that sadly haven't changed all that much from today, I think, in terms of our knowledge of what Africa is. We still get things so distorted. We're all there. So she was excited and at the time my mother had gotten remarried. My father had passed away several years before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She met a wonderful guy. So that made me feel better about going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, because you wouldn't have to worry about your mom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, my mother. So she was, so she was excited. It was, it was that part of it. And, you know, having to sell. I had an old car, so it wasn't a big deal because I think I sold it for $100 or something to somebody, it was an old beater. And then friends, saying goodbye to them and things. So it was an exciting time. And then we met out in Croton on Hudson, to a guy that lived out there. Went to New York City because we were all flying out of JFK on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so Peace Corps flew you from Madison, Wisconsin, to Croton on Hudson?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.318744396027183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She met a wonderful guy. So that made me feel better about going in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, because you wouldn't have to worry about your mom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, my mother. So she was, so she was excited. It was, it was that part of it. And, you know, having to sell. I had an old car, so it wasn't a big deal because I think I sold it for $100 or something to somebody, it was an old beater. And then friends, saying goodbye to them and things. So it was an exciting time. And then we met out in Croton on Hudson, to a guy that lived out there. Went to New York City because we were all flying out of JFK on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so Peace Corps flew you from Madison, Wisconsin, to Croton on Hudson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that is New York City."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.450952532273226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's just north, it's just up the Hudson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we flew in the JFK and four of us met and went out the night before. And then all of us met at JFK, 45 of us or whatever it was, and flew to Paris. Had a day in Paris."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we all went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get over your jetlag."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.990332691732817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jetlag. A little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there was quite a bit of drinking going on and card playing on the way over. And then we were out in Paris. So we're at the cafes drinking wine, and then we, everybody crashed. We got on the plane and went from there to Johannesburg, which is a long flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long flight. And I had my first. Stop me too, Phyllis, if I'm jumping ahead. But I had my first sort of experience with apartheid at the airport in Johannesburg, where a friend of mine, Mike, the guy I said before that was my, ended up being my best friend, went up to the bank in Johannesburg to change some money from dollars into rand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to stay in the airport at Johannesburg?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.211480768592018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there was quite a bit of drinking going on and card playing on the way over. And then we were out in Paris. So we're at the cafes drinking wine, and then we, everybody crashed. We got on the plane and went from there to Johannesburg, which is a long flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Long flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Long flight. And I had my first. Stop me too, Phyllis, if I'm jumping ahead. But I had my first sort of experience with apartheid at the airport in Johannesburg, where a friend of mine, Mike, the guy I said before that was my, ended up being my best friend, went up to the bank in Johannesburg to change some money from dollars into rand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to stay in the airport at Johannesburg?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were, we were. We were getting on, we were going to go. They were trying to figure out exactly some, something happened with travel, but what they were going to do with us. So we were there and wanted to transfer some money, went to the line where there's a bank. And the teller made the two Africans who were in front of us move to the side. And we, and of course, we were kind of indignant about that and said, no, we're not going to do this. And the guy said, well, then I'm not going to wait on you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. So you're in South Africa. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.137630578508665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were, we were. We were getting on, we were going to go. They were trying to figure out exactly some, something happened with travel, but what they were going to do with us. So we were there and wanted to transfer some money, went to the line where there's a bank. And the teller made the two Africans who were in front of us move to the side. And we, and of course, we were kind of indignant about that and said, no, we're not going to do this. And the guy said, well, then I'm not going to wait on you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. So you're in South Africa. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the two guys there said just go up and do it. So we got up and changed our money. And then we went to, uh, we went to this very nice hotel. Peace Corps put us into what they called a braai, which is a barbecue. That's what they call a barbecue in South Africa. And I think braai is either Dutch or Afrikaans. And did that for the day. There was a swimming pool and it was just, it was bizarre because we're in this hotel. The only Blacks there are waiters and waitresses. They couldn't, it was illegal for them to be in that hotel. And so Peace Corps did that, which we were all saying, what is this about? You know, because that wasn't our image of what we were supposed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we ended up flying to a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was just one night, right, in that hotel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.281025405566252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we ended up flying to a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was just one night, right, in that hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't even spend the night. We were waiting for a flight later to fly to Bloemfontein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few hours of, uh, R & R."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.312250450629168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't even spend the night. We were waiting for a flight later to fly to Bloemfontein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few hours of, uh, R & R."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was about six or 7 hours that we were there and then took a flight to Bloemfontein, which is in the Orange Free State, which is kind of the center of, it was the center of the Afrikaans, um, kind of power structure at the time. So it was all, all white, surrounded by all white farmers. And you did have these townships or homelands at the time around there. So Bloemfontein was a city that at night all the Blacks had to leave, so they all had to go out to their, to their little township outside of Bloemfontein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long a journey might that be, where they worked in Bloemfontein to where they lived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.34694494514352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was during the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A few hours of, uh, R & R."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was about six or 7 hours that we were there and then took a flight to Bloemfontein, which is in the Orange Free State, which is kind of the center of, it was the center of the Afrikaans, um, kind of power structure at the time. So it was all, all white, surrounded by all white farmers. And you did have these townships or homelands at the time around there. So Bloemfontein was a city that at night all the Blacks had to leave, so they all had to go out to their, to their little township outside of Bloemfontein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long a journey might that be, where they worked in Bloemfontein to where they lived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they all, all these busses came in and they got on busses. It wasn't too far outside, but the conditions were, you know, this nice city and the conditions in the townships were pretty horrible. And then we took a bus from Bloemfontein into Lesotho. And I remember it was pouring raining, it was dark. We didn't, you know, you're so disoriented, you're tired. They served us Kentucky Fried Chicken on the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the road, what's the road like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.440672771782122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they all, all these busses came in and they got on busses. It wasn't too far outside, but the conditions were, you know, this nice city and the conditions in the townships were pretty horrible. And then we took a bus from Bloemfontein into Lesotho. And I remember it was pouring raining, it was dark. We didn't, you know, you're so disoriented, you're tired. They served us Kentucky Fried Chicken on the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the road, what's the road like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The road wasn't bad from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Paved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was paved. It was all paved. You know, South Africa is one of those places where, you know, even, even today, they talk about it different than the rest of sub-Saharan Africa, because it was very Western in what was developed. A very large African population that was totally disenfranchised. But it was, it was, that part of it going from Bloemfontein into South Africa to Lesotho was very well done. It was a very nice highway. And so we went to the border, got in, and then we, it was nighttime and we took the bus to a town called Roma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a different bus now, you switched at the border?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 13.154508111236275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Get our passports and all that done. And it was interesting because at the time we had two passports as Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I think we were the only country in the world that they allowed that. Because if you traveled, many countries, both in southern Africa as well other places, if you could, wouldn't accept your passport if you had a South African stamp in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they knew that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, because they were against, that was a way of showing their opposition to apartheid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.727231234706974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I think we were the only country in the world that they allowed that. Because if you traveled, many countries, both in southern Africa as well other places, if you could, wouldn't accept your passport if you had a South African stamp in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they knew that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, because they were against, that was a way of showing their opposition to apartheid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. So we had these, you know, two passports. So you gave the one passport to the South Africans and they stamped it in. And then we had this other passport later when you traveled. So and we took a bus in the middle of the night to a town called Roma, which is where the National University of Lesotho is, and the nicest, probably one of the nicest secondary schools in the country, which was a Catholic school, and went into dorms. So almost all of us were either secondary school teachers or they had a group of teacher trainers. And then they had a couple of kind of people that would work on a higher level with, you know, training programs, even at the National University and other places. And my friend actually became, Mike became a teacher at the National University in Lesotho, National University in Botswana, and the National University in Swaziland. So he went around teaching management training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.070655845317251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. So we had these, you know, two passports. So you gave the one passport to the South Africans and they stamped it in. And then we had this other passport later when you traveled. So and we took a bus in the middle of the night to a town called Roma, which is where the National University of Lesotho is, and the nicest, probably one of the nicest secondary schools in the country, which was a Catholic school, and went into dorms. So almost all of us were either secondary school teachers or they had a group of teacher trainers. And then they had a couple of kind of people that would work on a higher level with, you know, training programs, even at the National University and other places. And my friend actually became, Mike became a teacher at the National University in Lesotho, National University in Botswana, and the National University in Swaziland. So he went around teaching management training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did those. At first he didn't like it very much. Again, I said he was gifted at languages during our training. He became quite fluent in Sesotho in a very short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, what a gift."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.52295093924139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did those. At first he didn't like it very much. Again, I said he was gifted at languages during our training. He became quite fluent in Sesotho in a very short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, what a gift."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, but then all of a sudden he's in Botswana, which he can use that because Setswana is very close to Sesotho, but then Setswati is very different. So he, but he'd learned bits and pieces of all of those. But that was the group. And we were in these dorms and it was a wonderful time just getting to know all the other, uh, Peace Corps volunteers. I met some of the people that are my best friends today. I also was exposed, I think, back up. I was, I think I grew up in a, you know, Madison was pretty conservative where I was. So, you know, obviously, I knew, I knew, obviously there was people that were gay or lesbian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.583890048446161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then, but then all of a sudden he's in Botswana, which he can use that because Setswana is very close to Sesotho, but then Setswati is very different. So he, but he'd learned bits and pieces of all of those. But that was the group. And we were in these dorms and it was a wonderful time just getting to know all the other, uh, Peace Corps volunteers. I met some of the people that are my best friends today. I also was exposed, I think, back up. I was, I think I grew up in a, you know, Madison was pretty conservative where I was. So, you know, obviously, I knew, I knew, obviously there was people that were gay or lesbian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Back, backing up. Back when I was in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't, it was like that was totally out of my thought. I didn't even think about that at the time. And it really wasn't until I became a Peace Corps volunteer and a couple of my best friends were gay. A couple of women that I, and I started to examine my own self in terms of where was I and this feelings of these things. And it opened up a whole different world than where people are from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Another thing that you didn't anticipate Peace Corps giving you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.20432227605129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Back, backing up. Back when I was in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't, it was like that was totally out of my thought. I didn't even think about that at the time. And it really wasn't until I became a Peace Corps volunteer and a couple of my best friends were gay. A couple of women that I, and I started to examine my own self in terms of where was I and this feelings of these things. And it opened up a whole different world than where people are from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Another thing that you didn't anticipate Peace Corps giving you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.659657130927518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Didn't even think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, it's, it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, uh, were, if there were gay people in your Peace Corps group, were they able to be out or do they have to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.518095223367306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, it's, it's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, uh, were, if there were gay people in your Peace Corps group, were they able to be out or do they have to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. Not at the time. It wasn't that, in fact, my, again, one of my better friends and still they, Bill Botticker, who lives in San Francisco now. Bill didn't come out to any of us till about a year later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was more of, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While still in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.343327436255932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was more of, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While still in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were still in Lesotho when he said that. I don't know who you are. I didn't know any of this stuff. Part of it came out that we started discussing because at the time we used to get Newsweek magazine as volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, that one, when we were in country very early on, they came out with a story about this new disease called Slim's Disease. And nobody knew what it was, but it was impacting the gay community and people, the drug users."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that what we now call HIV AIDS?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.957925152614447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And so, and so Bill, we didn't know at the time. Bill actually would go to gay bars in South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would escape and get out. And he was a math teacher. He ended up being in Roma in that national university. So he was close to the border and could get out. And it's a whole different community. So it wasn't till about a year later and then there's a couple other people came out. You just kind of, you know, that's, that's when I really, it became very clear to me. It's like, so what? People are people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I learned to, and I'll say this very openly, I learned that I could love a man and not confuse that with the whole sexual side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. You can, you can feel emotion and caring deeply."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.619916836238274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He would escape and get out. And he was a math teacher. He ended up being in Roma in that national university. So he was close to the border and could get out. And it's a whole different community. So it wasn't till about a year later and then there's a couple other people came out. You just kind of, you know, that's, that's when I really, it became very clear to me. It's like, so what? People are people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I learned to, and I'll say this very openly, I learned that I could love a man and not confuse that with the whole sexual side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. You can, you can feel emotion and caring deeply."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And that was that was probably, I mean, I look at the learnings that you get from an experience like Peace Corps, and those are the types of things that you learn about yourself that carry on forward and impact what you do. And not only then but afterwards and what you do with your children and those things that are just so powerful. And I'm not sure if Peace Corps, I don't know how you do that to people trying to go in now or even afterwards, how you really kind of parlay that kind of information to them, because I think you almost have to experience that yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.35546315137586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I learned to, and I'll say this very openly, I learned that I could love a man and not confuse that with the whole sexual side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. You can, you can feel emotion and caring deeply."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And that was that was probably, I mean, I look at the learnings that you get from an experience like Peace Corps, and those are the types of things that you learn about yourself that carry on forward and impact what you do. And not only then but afterwards and what you do with your children and those things that are just so powerful. And I'm not sure if Peace Corps, I don't know how you do that to people trying to go in now or even afterwards, how you really kind of parlay that kind of information to them, because I think you almost have to experience that yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And how does that happen to you as an individual? So, it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More about training. You were living in a dorm in a Catholic secondary school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.172736834862066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And that was that was probably, I mean, I look at the learnings that you get from an experience like Peace Corps, and those are the types of things that you learn about yourself that carry on forward and impact what you do. And not only then but afterwards and what you do with your children and those things that are just so powerful. And I'm not sure if Peace Corps, I don't know how you do that to people trying to go in now or even afterwards, how you really kind of parlay that kind of information to them, because I think you almost have to experience that yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And how does that happen to you as an individual? So, it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More about training. You were living in a dorm in a Catholic secondary school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School must have been out of session."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.080818705402296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And how does that happen to you as an individual? So, it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More about training. You were living in a dorm in a Catholic secondary school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School must have been out of session."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, so they had the space for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.089798561558107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School must have been out of session."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, so they had the space for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, and there would have been classrooms for you to meet in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.210887290620118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, so they had the space for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, and there would have been classrooms for you to meet in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what's, what sorts of activities went on during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 12.456541434022354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, and there would have been classrooms for you to meet in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what's, what sorts of activities went on during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, you know, language was a big one, cultural was another one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the language was Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.139288661210361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sesotho, right. So it's a Bantu language. So it's, you know, the country's Lesotho, the people are Basotho, one person is a Mosotho, the language is Sesotho. And you can do all the way up to Uganda now, it's Uganda, Baganda, Moganda, Lugandan. And so there's a lot of similarities as you go through and even some common words. So you know, all of that was happening. We also did teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Peace Corps hired, hired. It was really hired students to come back where they provided them lunches. So at one point for a couple of weeks, we were in classrooms teaching students that would come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So which was also wonderful because it's pretty intimidating. And it wasn't until later, one of the problems with that is, again, I said we were in one of the best high schools in the country. They had labs as well- equipped as we had in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now sitting in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.710320734678178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Peace Corps hired, hired. It was really hired students to come back where they provided them lunches. So at one point for a couple of weeks, we were in classrooms teaching students that would come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So which was also wonderful because it's pretty intimidating. And it wasn't until later, one of the problems with that is, again, I said we were in one of the best high schools in the country. They had labs as well- equipped as we had in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now sitting in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good to know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.34607498108417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was all developed by the, the, with the, um, Oblate brothers in the Catholic Church. But it didn't prepare you that well when you went to your own site. Because I went to my own site and I had a beaker and a Bunsen burner that didn't work. That's what I had for equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, it wasn't a very, um, good job of really preparing most of us for our situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that way. But it did get you standing in front of a group of kids and talking and trying to figure out how you're going to present an idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7178610900935225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was all developed by the, the, with the, um, Oblate brothers in the Catholic Church. But it didn't prepare you that well when you went to your own site. Because I went to my own site and I had a beaker and a Bunsen burner that didn't work. That's what I had for equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, it wasn't a very, um, good job of really preparing most of us for our situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that way. But it did get you standing in front of a group of kids and talking and trying to figure out how you're going to present an idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so they would have trainers that were there that would sit in your classroom and. See, part of what, part of the group that we had were teacher trainers. So these were people that already had teaching certificates. So they would help. It was peer to peer in the sense that they would sit in the classroom and talk to you about what you did and help you write, we had to write lesson plans. We had to do all of these things. And so it was, um, it was a great time. And then you had the, all the social other things that went on. There was kind of social activities that they would put together, and then you could play basketball or go for hikes. We went for a beautiful hike. I have a beautiful picture of us in the mountains. You know, one of the things that people don't think about when they think of Africa is a place like Lesotho where it snows. I got snowed in and snowed out of my site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's not the image one has of Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.355384061843855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so they would have trainers that were there that would sit in your classroom and. See, part of what, part of the group that we had were teacher trainers. So these were people that already had teaching certificates. So they would help. It was peer to peer in the sense that they would sit in the classroom and talk to you about what you did and help you write, we had to write lesson plans. We had to do all of these things. And so it was, um, it was a great time. And then you had the, all the social other things that went on. There was kind of social activities that they would put together, and then you could play basketball or go for hikes. We went for a beautiful hike. I have a beautiful picture of us in the mountains. You know, one of the things that people don't think about when they think of Africa is a place like Lesotho where it snows. I got snowed in and snowed out of my site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's not the image one has of Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. So there was very high mountains. They had a little place you could go skiing. It was in the Drakensberg range of mountains in South Africa. And my, one of the best things I ever got that I really looked at that Peace Corps gave us, and I really heeded it, was a very warm sleeping bag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it got cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you brought that over with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7282045131598385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. So there was very high mountains. They had a little place you could go skiing. It was in the Drakensberg range of mountains in South Africa. And my, one of the best things I ever got that I really looked at that Peace Corps gave us, and I really heeded it, was a very warm sleeping bag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it got cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you brought that over with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought that over with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You wouldn't have ordinarily thought to put that in a trunk."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.142449459066487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it got cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you brought that over with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought that over with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You wouldn't have ordinarily thought to put that in a trunk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was going to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.114135134649985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was going to Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The good thing about that is we didn't have malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "True."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had other things that, you know, dysentery, things that you had because of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, uh, was part of Peace Corps training getting a big series of vaccinations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.682372371833316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The good thing about that is we didn't have malaria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "True."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had other things that, you know, dysentery, things that you had because of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, uh, was part of Peace Corps training getting a big series of vaccinations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that happened in Lesotho, not here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.313747079814796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had other things that, you know, dysentery, things that you had because of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, uh, was part of Peace Corps training getting a big series of vaccinations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that happened in Lesotho, not here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did before. We had to get some before. But then you also had your gamma globulin shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes. Every six months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.015274533127551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that happened in Lesotho, not here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did before. We had to get some before. But then you also had your gamma globulin shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yes. Every six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you, you know, you were threatened if you didn't come to get that, you were, you could go home. They'd send you home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a hepatitis, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.660832756947594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you, you know, you were threatened if you didn't come to get that, you were, you could go home. They'd send you home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a hepatitis, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So which they don't do anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They don't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think or else they have a different way of doing gamma globulin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a huge shot in the butt."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.692386119688386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think or else they have a different way of doing gamma globulin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a huge shot in the butt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Yes. And we always made a big party of it. So everybody had to come down from their sites and you'd have to get your GG shots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a great kind of part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But back to training. So you're learning language. Are they talking, were there classes about the history of Lesotho, the politics?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.496772987269612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was a great kind of part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But back to training. So you're learning language. Are they talking, were there classes about the history of Lesotho, the politics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, we had like at that time, the ANC, the African National Congress, was considered a terrorist organization and they were in Lesotho. So they, Peace Corps actually had ANC come and talk to us. And I can remember them saying, you know, thank you for all being, all of you being here. But if you really want to help us, go home. Because you as an American have such more influence if you go home and, you know, look at how you vote and do those things. Now, after having said that, they said, okay, we understand you're not going to do that. And we also understand you need to educate yourself on what the realities are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So please keep that in mind when you're in Lesotho where people are free in a sense, um, that just across the border. And South Africa on several occasions shut down Lesotho because the ANC would go do something in South Africa. You know, it was a violent time, bombings and, and they literally shut the border and had jets flying over. They raided Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.440858874744013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, we had like at that time, the ANC, the African National Congress, was considered a terrorist organization and they were in Lesotho. So they, Peace Corps actually had ANC come and talk to us. And I can remember them saying, you know, thank you for all being, all of you being here. But if you really want to help us, go home. Because you as an American have such more influence if you go home and, you know, look at how you vote and do those things. Now, after having said that, they said, okay, we understand you're not going to do that. And we also understand you need to educate yourself on what the realities are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So please keep that in mind when you're in Lesotho where people are free in a sense, um, that just across the border. And South Africa on several occasions shut down Lesotho because the ANC would go do something in South Africa. You know, it was a violent time, bombings and, and they literally shut the border and had jets flying over. They raided Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah, we had volunteers in the capital city, several of them, that got caught in between some firefights between the South African Defense Force and the ANC and bombs went off. And, you know, luckily nobody from our group were injured, but were in pretty scary situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you instructed by Peace Corps about what stance you were to take or not take vis a vis apartheid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.913019483385002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And how we impact the world. And I think, you know, Phyllis, and I know if I jump into this now, this is one of the things that I think, that I just think, uh, that I wish more Americans would do Peace Corps. It's not for everybody, but they would, because I get very. For me personally now, when people say, well, why do they hate us? Or we, you know, we should be, you know, we're loved, we're doing all this for them. I just kind of shake my head. And you say, do you realize the history of what we've done and who we've supported?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, that, that, you know, people aren't going to see everything that we do as being positive and everything that we do isn't in the best interest of the country that we're in. It's for American interests. That's what foreign policy. All these other countries basically do the same thing too. But we've done some horrible, horrible things. So if you don't have that perspective and you're here, it's, you know, you have a lot of the hatred and perspectives that I hear people talk about today. And I look at, you know, what our potential people holding high offices have, their perspectives. And I just kind of shake my head because it's, it's, uh, so narrow and it also doesn't take into consideration so many other things that should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's a one, I mean, that's what, that's what that training did. You get very close to a, to a group of people and we were pretty close as a group. There's actually five or six of us that got very close. And we still, every other year, we're going this year, have rented a beach house in North Carolina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. You get together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.458910537094446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, that, that, you know, people aren't going to see everything that we do as being positive and everything that we do isn't in the best interest of the country that we're in. It's for American interests. That's what foreign policy. All these other countries basically do the same thing too. But we've done some horrible, horrible things. So if you don't have that perspective and you're here, it's, you know, you have a lot of the hatred and perspectives that I hear people talk about today. And I look at, you know, what our potential people holding high offices have, their perspectives. And I just kind of shake my head because it's, it's, uh, so narrow and it also doesn't take into consideration so many other things that should be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's a one, I mean, that's what, that's what that training did. You get very close to a, to a group of people and we were pretty close as a group. There's actually five or six of us that got very close. And we still, every other year, we're going this year, have rented a beach house in North Carolina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. You get together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a woman from Alaska that comes, a couple from, um, Bill from San Francisco and his partner, a couple from upstate New York, the only married couple in the group, upstate New York. We come from Wisconsin. And there's somebody that comes from Washington, D.C., and Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are all people who were in your training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.065456152327162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's a one, I mean, that's what, that's what that training did. You get very close to a, to a group of people and we were pretty close as a group. There's actually five or six of us that got very close. And we still, every other year, we're going this year, have rented a beach house in North Carolina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. You get together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a woman from Alaska that comes, a couple from, um, Bill from San Francisco and his partner, a couple from upstate New York, the only married couple in the group, upstate New York. We come from Wisconsin. And there's somebody that comes from Washington, D.C., and Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are all people who were in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you all you went through that one week together and then you went through training in Lesotho together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.4882174720088415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you all you went through that one week together and then you went through training in Lesotho together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we went off and did. But we stayed, we stayed really, really close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that training last in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.098019413343157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we went off and did. But we stayed, we stayed really, really close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that training last in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That training was, what was it? Eight weeks, it was almost two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's a good chunk of time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.66446601482573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that training last in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That training was, what was it? Eight weeks, it was almost two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's a good chunk of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, you're 24 hours, you're together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And then at the end of that, was there a swearing in ceremony?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.993167919537938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, you're 24 hours, you're together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And then at the end of that, was there a swearing in ceremony?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the big thing I can remember at the end of the training is we got together and they had balloons up. They had a big map of Lesotho and they had balloons up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we took turns throwing a dart at a balloon and it would pop and there would be somebody's name so we could go up and read the place and the name. And that's how people found out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So until that moment, you didn't know where in Lesotho you were going to be assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.732766223956618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after you've got, you've been there and you really kind of understand what you're getting yourself into, that changes, which is a good thing. They need to do that. And I knew I wanted to be up in the mountains and I got that, but others didn't. So it was, it was wonderful. And so that was a, I mean, it was such a celebratory time and place. It was just pretty amazing to kind of go through that and be a part of that. And then we did have, yes, we went to the ambassador's residence and had a swearing in ceremony. It was a fantastic ceremony. Plus we had the swimming pool at the ambassador's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when I was in Peace Corps, and this again, this is a difference than being overseas with the new, you know, FaceTime and Skype and all of this. We were really discouraged from calling home, using any kind of two-way radio or any of that, because there was also the association with Americans and CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially in South Africa and Southern Africa, what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if the people would see you on the phone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.620699041921752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially in South Africa and Southern Africa, what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if the people would see you on the phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So we were discouraged, so we wrote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I. The other big thing I can remember about after that was going up to my site because that was, you know, you'd been intensely in this kind of environment, experiences, training. And then the next day I, there was a, Musan Deely, who was the driver for Peace Corps. He and I going up the mountain road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.022998935468613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So we were discouraged, so we wrote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I. The other big thing I can remember about after that was going up to my site because that was, you know, you'd been intensely in this kind of environment, experiences, training. And then the next day I, there was a, Musan Deely, who was the driver for Peace Corps. He and I going up the mountain road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the two of us going up the mountain road to my site, which the mountain road ended up, you know, most of it was dirt. And it was, it was pretty, you know, you're down steep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the edge of a cliff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.4699988171873475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I. The other big thing I can remember about after that was going up to my site because that was, you know, you'd been intensely in this kind of environment, experiences, training. And then the next day I, there was a, Musan Deely, who was the driver for Peace Corps. He and I going up the mountain road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the two of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the two of us going up the mountain road to my site, which the mountain road ended up, you know, most of it was dirt. And it was, it was pretty, you know, you're down steep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the edge of a cliff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Edge of a cliff, and you're going up to this school. And he took me up there and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long, how long a drive is this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8555542413192754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the two of us going up the mountain road to my site, which the mountain road ended up, you know, most of it was dirt. And it was, it was pretty, you know, you're down steep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the edge of a cliff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Edge of a cliff, and you're going up to this school. And he took me up there and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long, how long a drive is this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the capital city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.759943507801574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the capital city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because the road bent and you're going up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're going up. And so he dropped me off and it was holiday time still. So there wasn't. He dropped me off and he left and I'm kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're standing there with your suitcase?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.288826119779526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because the road bent and you're going up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're going up. And so he dropped me off and it was holiday time still. So there wasn't. He dropped me off and he left and I'm kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're standing there with your suitcase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I end up going over to the, to the priest's home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's a Catholic school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.5294149626907725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I end up going over to the, to the priest's home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's a Catholic school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a Catholic school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The priest's home. Because, well, when he first drove in, there was the school on the side of the mountain, which was out in the middle of nowhere. And then he kept driving. And he came around this, back in this cliff to this mountain was this beautiful, beautiful mission, just gorgeous. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we're not in the village, there's not a town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.604216003321941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The priest's home. Because, well, when he first drove in, there was the school on the side of the mountain, which was out in the middle of nowhere. And then he kept driving. And he came around this, back in this cliff to this mountain was this beautiful, beautiful mission, just gorgeous. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we're not in the village, there's not a town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The village is down. I could see the village, but it was down the valley, down. But there was a river in the valley and the village Marakabeis was the name of it. It was down by the river."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the mission was up on top. So I eventually. And they were supposed to be meeting us there. But, you know, of course communications and things were a lot different. But eventually they came out and they put me in this, it was an old convent, this one room. It was an old convent, and it ended up being that's where I stayed. This guy from Sri Lanka, Guy Amar, was there. And then there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a faculty, another faculty member?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7459456831135075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the mission was up on top. So I eventually. And they were supposed to be meeting us there. But, you know, of course communications and things were a lot different. But eventually they came out and they put me in this, it was an old convent, this one room. It was an old convent, and it ended up being that's where I stayed. This guy from Sri Lanka, Guy Amar, was there. And then there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a faculty, another faculty member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then there was a, there was a, uh, Lesotho couple who became, Indotti Majody became one of my, and Me Mama Jody became some of my best friends and their, their children. I can remember them, the youngest ones there. So we had this little. And we had a beautiful porch that I had a rocking chair that we could sit and rock and look off down the valley. And we would sit at, you know, you didn't have television, you had radio. You could get radio, South African radio mainly, but you'd have tea at night and coffee and just sit and talk, you know, and that electricity would stay on. There was a generator. The electricity would stay on till I think it was 9:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the electricity would go off and then you had, you know, paraffin and kerosene lamps and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had people to talk to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8288285367927861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then there was a, there was a, uh, Lesotho couple who became, Indotti Majody became one of my, and Me Mama Jody became some of my best friends and their, their children. I can remember them, the youngest ones there. So we had this little. And we had a beautiful porch that I had a rocking chair that we could sit and rock and look off down the valley. And we would sit at, you know, you didn't have television, you had radio. You could get radio, South African radio mainly, but you'd have tea at night and coffee and just sit and talk, you know, and that electricity would stay on. There was a generator. The electricity would stay on till I think it was 9:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the electricity would go off and then you had, you know, paraffin and kerosene lamps and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had people to talk to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the dark. Sit out there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.920920596436429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the electricity would go off and then you had, you know, paraffin and kerosene lamps and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had people to talk to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the dark. Sit out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could just sit out there and talk. And it was just, it was one, I, you know, if anything, you know, when I think back in memory, I treasure those times of just kind of the simplicity of it all. And you had more chance to just talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first got there, you were taken to the, you had a room in what had been a convent?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0232451071515878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the dark. Sit out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could just sit out there and talk. And it was just, it was one, I, you know, if anything, you know, when I think back in memory, I treasure those times of just kind of the simplicity of it all. And you had more chance to just talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first got there, you were taken to the, you had a room in what had been a convent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that where you stayed for your whole two years as a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1369390079462085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could just sit out there and talk. And it was just, it was one, I, you know, if anything, you know, when I think back in memory, I treasure those times of just kind of the simplicity of it all. And you had more chance to just talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first got there, you were taken to the, you had a room in what had been a convent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that where you stayed for your whole two years as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did you move into something a little?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.292517293760751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did you move into something a little?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they ended up building houses over by the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so about a little into my second year, they moved us over there. And I really wish they wouldn't have because it was just more isolated, because it was just, there wasn't more of the mission things that were going on. And there was a primary school at the mission. So there was always kids around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little kids around. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.3250192152897233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they ended up building houses over by the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so about a little into my second year, they moved us over there. And I really wish they wouldn't have because it was just more isolated, because it was just, there wasn't more of the mission things that were going on. And there was a primary school at the mission. So there was always kids around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little kids around. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at night we're over at the school where we were, there was no electricity. There was no running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, not even something that would end at 9:00, there wasn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.36113246143302585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so about a little into my second year, they moved us over there. And I really wish they wouldn't have because it was just more isolated, because it was just, there wasn't more of the mission things that were going on. And there was a primary school at the mission. So there was always kids around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Little kids around. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at night we're over at the school where we were, there was no electricity. There was no running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, not even something that would end at 9:00, there wasn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And no running water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.4012582904811398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at night we're over at the school where we were, there was no electricity. There was no running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, not even something that would end at 9:00, there wasn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And no running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No running water. So we had to go down. There's just a little ways down the valley. But to get water and carry that up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a bucket."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5504228950358571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a bucket. And then we'd fill. During the school, when school was on, they had kids do that, that would go down and fill it into a bigger bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this outside, this bigger bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's, but it was a nice house, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back to the room in the convent first and then I want to hear more about the, the nicer house without the amenities. Are we okay time wise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6115809944842856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had this outside, this bigger bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's, but it was a nice house, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back to the room in the convent first and then I want to hear more about the, the nicer house without the amenities. Are we okay time wise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um. In your, uh. My mind just went blank. At the, when you lived in the, in the convent was there some community? All you, you were just in a room so where did you cook or how did, how did you eat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7550382647954144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Um. In your, uh. My mind just went blank. At the, when you lived in the, in the convent was there some community? All you, you were just in a room so where did you cook or how did, how did you eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got, um, we often ate together, all of us. But I had a little gas cylinder with a little gas stove. And so that's what, we'd cook things on the little gas stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was inside the room. There was another little room that off of that that we could put the gas cooker on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So each of you had a little gas cooker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8389314053282382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got, um, we often ate together, all of us. But I had a little gas cylinder with a little gas stove. And so that's what, we'd cook things on the little gas stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was inside the room. There was another little room that off of that that we could put the gas cooker on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So each of you had a little gas cooker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That was right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was provided for you? Did Peace Corps issue that to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9321460059202646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was inside the room. There was another little room that off of that that we could put the gas cooker on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So each of you had a little gas cooker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That was right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was provided for you? Did Peace Corps issue that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to go buy it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.150797538173166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to go buy it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go buy it. We had to, that was part of our settling in allowance that we got from Peace Corps. And to get gas, we had to go down to the town in the valley, which, it was a long way. So often we would get a horse, strap it to it, or else we could. If at my first year, if the priest was going down, he'd give us a ride in the vehicle. And we could get our gas cylinders and bring those back up. Um, there was no heating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, a lot of them, they had these paraffin heaters, but I didn't like it because I didn't like the smell. So I just wore more clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking about a place where it snowed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.278663931303518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to go buy it. We had to, that was part of our settling in allowance that we got from Peace Corps. And to get gas, we had to go down to the town in the valley, which, it was a long way. So often we would get a horse, strap it to it, or else we could. If at my first year, if the priest was going down, he'd give us a ride in the vehicle. And we could get our gas cylinders and bring those back up. Um, there was no heating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, a lot of them, they had these paraffin heaters, but I didn't like it because I didn't like the smell. So I just wore more clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking about a place where it snowed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was cold. And taking, you know, taking a bath. It was cold. It was cold. And, you know, you had mice and, you know, those types of things in the building. So I would ball up my socks at night and I'd hear the scratching and I'd take my flashlight, the torch, and turn it on and fire my socks. So it's just such great, great, wonderful memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, um, you were eating, who cooked? You cooked for yourselves? It wasn't like a cook for the mission."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4207377014483533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, a lot of them, they had these paraffin heaters, but I didn't like it because I didn't like the smell. So I just wore more clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're talking about a place where it snowed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was cold. And taking, you know, taking a bath. It was cold. It was cold. And, you know, you had mice and, you know, those types of things in the building. So I would ball up my socks at night and I'd hear the scratching and I'd take my flashlight, the torch, and turn it on and fire my socks. So it's just such great, great, wonderful memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, um, you were eating, who cooked? You cooked for yourselves? It wasn't like a cook for the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's, you know. The priests and the nuns lived very well. They had a huge garden and they weren't very accommodating and sharing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. They didn't invite you all over?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5785974460537258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was cold. And taking, you know, taking a bath. It was cold. It was cold. And, you know, you had mice and, you know, those types of things in the building. So I would ball up my socks at night and I'd hear the scratching and I'd take my flashlight, the torch, and turn it on and fire my socks. So it's just such great, great, wonderful memories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, um, you were eating, who cooked? You cooked for yourselves? It wasn't like a cook for the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's, you know. The priests and the nuns lived very well. They had a huge garden and they weren't very accommodating and sharing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. They didn't invite you all over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And I, you know, this kind of shows you. You know, I grew up Catholic, but I didn't consider myself religious, and still don't. But I would go to church because it was a part of the community. And I stopped going when the priest admonished the community for not putting more of their money into the`. And I just said, I can't. This is just, these people, these are subsistence farmers. They're barely getting by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And meanwhile, the people running the mission are living quite comfortably."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9488857358687972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And I, you know, this kind of shows you. You know, I grew up Catholic, but I didn't consider myself religious, and still don't. But I would go to church because it was a part of the community. And I stopped going when the priest admonished the community for not putting more of their money into the`. And I just said, I can't. This is just, these people, these are subsistence farmers. They're barely getting by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And meanwhile, the people running the mission are living quite comfortably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, the priests and the nuns lived very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vehicles, tractors that they did for their mission land. And so they lived, had a two, it was the only two story building around. The new convent they built was two stories, was very nice. I think I was invited to dinner once, um. So, and I can, I'll go into something else a little bit later in terms of the teaching that became what I consider the best thing I ever did as a Peace Corps volunteer, which, which really put me at odds with the priest of the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's save that for a minute, because I just want to get straight about your living situation, and then we'll go on to the classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1654285954097747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They, the priests and the nuns lived very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vehicles, tractors that they did for their mission land. And so they lived, had a two, it was the only two story building around. The new convent they built was two stories, was very nice. I think I was invited to dinner once, um. So, and I can, I'll go into something else a little bit later in terms of the teaching that became what I consider the best thing I ever did as a Peace Corps volunteer, which, which really put me at odds with the priest of the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's save that for a minute, because I just want to get straight about your living situation, and then we'll go on to the classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I'm thinking about your health and how much control you had over what you were eating. And so were you able to get vegetables and protein? And was the water potable? What did you have to do to keep healthy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2949206615664164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vehicles, tractors that they did for their mission land. And so they lived, had a two, it was the only two story building around. The new convent they built was two stories, was very nice. I think I was invited to dinner once, um. So, and I can, I'll go into something else a little bit later in terms of the teaching that became what I consider the best thing I ever did as a Peace Corps volunteer, which, which really put me at odds with the priest of the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's save that for a minute, because I just want to get straight about your living situation, and then we'll go on to the classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I'm thinking about your health and how much control you had over what you were eating. And so were you able to get vegetables and protein? And was the water potable? What did you have to do to keep healthy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting the right kind of vegetables, it all depended on what time of the month it was and what year. At the beginning of the month after we got paid, then you could get things, you can buy things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's a market in that little village down there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.438800735073796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I'm thinking about your health and how much control you had over what you were eating. And so were you able to get vegetables and protein? And was the water potable? What did you have to do to keep healthy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting the right kind of vegetables, it all depended on what time of the month it was and what year. At the beginning of the month after we got paid, then you could get things, you can buy things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's a market in that little village down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was wonderful because, you know, bartering is a part of the, kind of the, I would say, even I'll generalize, the African kind of spirit so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm thinking that maybe the market people didn't speak English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5986674834153287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting the right kind of vegetables, it all depended on what time of the month it was and what year. At the beginning of the month after we got paid, then you could get things, you can buy things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there's a market in that little village down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was wonderful because, you know, bartering is a part of the, kind of the, I would say, even I'll generalize, the African kind of spirit so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm thinking that maybe the market people didn't speak English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They didn't speak any English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you got to use whatever you learned in training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.7762972037948097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was wonderful because, you know, bartering is a part of the, kind of the, I would say, even I'll generalize, the African kind of spirit so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm thinking that maybe the market people didn't speak English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They didn't speak any English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you got to use whatever you learned in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least in the market bargaining."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9583916096232218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least in the market bargaining."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That and going out to the bars, that's where, that's when you get to know many of the men. Because in those rural areas, women didn't go out. The only time a woman would go out would be they would basically be a prostitute, especially in the rural areas, because you just didn't, you went out to what they called the shebeen, which was a local place. And they may have regular beer that we know or they had local beer. It was a great place to go and meet men and talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And find out what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But now I'm feeling very sorry for the woman Peace Corps volunteer in Lesotho."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0648795662480242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That and going out to the bars, that's where, that's when you get to know many of the men. Because in those rural areas, women didn't go out. The only time a woman would go out would be they would basically be a prostitute, especially in the rural areas, because you just didn't, you went out to what they called the shebeen, which was a local place. And they may have regular beer that we know or they had local beer. It was a great place to go and meet men and talk to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And find out what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But now I'm feeling very sorry for the woman Peace Corps volunteer in Lesotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was way out in the country. They'd be very isolated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.18319951805336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And find out what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But now I'm feeling very sorry for the woman Peace Corps volunteer in Lesotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was way out in the country. They'd be very isolated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a challenge. I mean, in most places I've been in the world, it feels women have unique challenges with that. I mean, most places I've been are very, very male dominated. And that's, that wasn't the exception in Lesotho. It was very much the norm. So, yeah, it was much more of a challenge. But they also were in women's groups. You know, people were very good at finding their kind of niches and things so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to the market and you could buy vegetables or you could buy whatever was in season at that time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.8033828959813438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn't barter in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the market you could. And so a lot of times I would barter with, the women at first knew. You know, didn't know who I was, but I would barter with them. And then I would usually, because they'd always ask for more money, because I was this white guy that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This foreigner, I should say more, because it happened no matter what you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would it work? They would say, um, what's? What's the currency in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9918307357794369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This foreigner, I should say more, because it happened no matter what you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how would it work? They would say, um, what's? What's the currency in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maloti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maloti."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So suppose they would say, um, you want to buy this, what? What, a loaf of bread. I'm making this up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.102034150866041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maloti."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maloti."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So suppose they would say, um, you want to buy this, what? What, a loaf of bread. I'm making this up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if they had bread. They have bread?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2244823898511565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So suppose they would say, um, you want to buy this, what? What, a loaf of bread. I'm making this up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if they had bread. They have bread?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You want to buy a loaf of bread and it's going to be 10 maloti."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3605359887235073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if they had bread. They have bread?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You want to buy a loaf of bread and it's going to be 10 maloti."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you would counter with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5117066541372304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. You want to buy a loaf of bread and it's going to be 10 maloti."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you would counter with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd ask for 20, let's say. If it was supposed to be 10 there, they'd ask for 20 from me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so when they asked for 20, then you knew it was supposed to be 10."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8663045112805314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd ask for 20, let's say. If it was supposed to be 10 there, they'd ask for 20 from me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so when they asked for 20, then you knew it was supposed to be 10."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would barter them down. I'd say no, I'd say eight. And they would say, no, no, all this time. And they go up to, you know, 15. Then we get down. And eventually I'd get them down to 10 or eight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I'd pay them 15. And after a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you just enjoyed, they enjoyed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.448977381729124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was kind of an insult if you didn't do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of that. So and after a while they knew me and they, they, they'd ask for 50, you know, because they knew we'd go back and do all of this stuff. And I got to know them. I got invited to their houses. Many of their kids were, were students at the school. So I got to know the parents. And so that was a wonderful, that whole part of it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, I'd ride horses. The, the Lesotho, they had, matter of fact, the big Irish group that I told about earlier were trying to revitalize the Basotho [or Basuto] pony. So main transportation in the mountains was in, was on a small horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And you had one or access to one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6099748685879156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of that. So and after a while they knew me and they, they, they'd ask for 50, you know, because they knew we'd go back and do all of this stuff. And I got to know them. I got invited to their houses. Many of their kids were, were students at the school. So I got to know the parents. And so that was a wonderful, that whole part of it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, I'd ride horses. The, the Lesotho, they had, matter of fact, the big Irish group that I told about earlier were trying to revitalize the Basotho [or Basuto] pony. So main transportation in the mountains was in, was on a small horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And you had one or access to one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Access one that I could ride. So I would ride. The teachers, the teacher trainers actually, many of them had horses or motorcycles. They were the only ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they'd have to go from village to village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7888609650976839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, I'd ride horses. The, the Lesotho, they had, matter of fact, the big Irish group that I told about earlier were trying to revitalize the Basotho [or Basuto] pony. So main transportation in the mountains was in, was on a small horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And you had one or access to one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Access one that I could ride. So I would ride. The teachers, the teacher trainers actually, many of them had horses or motorcycles. They were the only ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they'd have to go from village to village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd go to different schools. So, um, they were the only ones that could have motorcycles also. It was forbidden for anybody else. You weren't even supposed to ride on a motorcycle. So it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what were you eating? Was there, were there, was there animals? Was there meat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3427448080901012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you could get meat. But so at the beginning of the month, I may get meat. At the end, I didn't have enough money because I'd spent stuff. But you could, you know, we'd get sacks of potatoes and get them. So we ate a lot of potato soup we made. Greens, you could get greens and have kind of moroho. And the staple in Lesotho like a lot of east and southern Africa is maize meal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you'd make what they call papa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or pap. And so you'd have, you'd make maize meal up and you could, if you could have some kind of a gravy, and you could get those Knorr's gravy mixes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.491938675655668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you'd make what they call papa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or pap. And so you'd have, you'd make maize meal up and you could, if you could have some kind of a gravy, and you could get those Knorr's gravy mixes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they had, uh, for breakfast and things, they had what they call jungle oats, which was oatmeal. So you had oatmeal and things like that. You could get eggs. We could buy eggs from people around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So not too bad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.657709639617409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or pap. And so you'd have, you'd make maize meal up and you could, if you could have some kind of a gravy, and you could get those Knorr's gravy mixes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they had, uh, for breakfast and things, they had what they call jungle oats, which was oatmeal. So you had oatmeal and things like that. You could get eggs. We could buy eggs from people around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So not too bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't too bad. It wasn't too bad at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm thinking about the maize meal. That's corn."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8418995995748988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they had, uh, for breakfast and things, they had what they call jungle oats, which was oatmeal. So you had oatmeal and things like that. You could get eggs. We could buy eggs from people around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So not too bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't too bad. It wasn't too bad at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm thinking about the maize meal. That's corn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, corn originated here in the Americas."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0465551106387765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't too bad. It wasn't too bad at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm thinking about the maize meal. That's corn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, corn originated here in the Americas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before the 1500s, people in south Africa would not have had, there must have been some other?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.526611247702193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before the 1500s, people in south Africa would not have had, there must have been some other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would have been millet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Millet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There would be a millet or a sorghum, you know, which is millet, that would have been their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some other kind of grain."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.807345830780214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would have been millet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Millet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There would be a millet or a sorghum, you know, which is millet, that would have been their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some other kind of grain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that would have been their staple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0081620342002378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There would be a millet or a sorghum, you know, which is millet, that would have been their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some other kind of grain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that would have been their staple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, you know, it was. We're up in the mountains, so it's spring fed. It's pretty clean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no factory up above you dumping?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2312911491113754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that would have been their staple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, you know, it was. We're up in the mountains, so it's spring fed. It's pretty clean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no factory up above you dumping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No factory above us. It was pretty clean. You had to be careful just because of cows. And so we always boiled our water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did? Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.479212387901528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, you know, it was. We're up in the mountains, so it's spring fed. It's pretty clean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no factory up above you dumping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No factory above us. It was pretty clean. You had to be careful just because of cows. And so we always boiled our water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because you didn't know what animals, sheep. You know, they had sheep and goats and cattle and horses. So you didn't know where they were. They didn't usually have protected places, so you just didn't know what could be in your water. I actually got amoebic dysentery. I'd never been sicker in my life at my site and trying to get down to the capital city was, was, I mean, it's, right now it's kind of a fond memory. It was, it was such an experience and there's some funny parts of it. But at the time I was just really, really sick. And that's because, you know, sometimes you can't, if somebody offers you some tea or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's just it, when you're a guest in somebody's home, you have to accept it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.754680431001698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No factory above us. It was pretty clean. You had to be careful just because of cows. And so we always boiled our water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because you didn't know what animals, sheep. You know, they had sheep and goats and cattle and horses. So you didn't know where they were. They didn't usually have protected places, so you just didn't know what could be in your water. I actually got amoebic dysentery. I'd never been sicker in my life at my site and trying to get down to the capital city was, was, I mean, it's, right now it's kind of a fond memory. It was, it was such an experience and there's some funny parts of it. But at the time I was just really, really sick. And that's because, you know, sometimes you can't, if somebody offers you some tea or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's just it, when you're a guest in somebody's home, you have to accept it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You accept it, you know, and somebody cooks you something. You don't know how clean their hands are, but you're not going to question that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And you survived this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0607560344463307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because you didn't know what animals, sheep. You know, they had sheep and goats and cattle and horses. So you didn't know where they were. They didn't usually have protected places, so you just didn't know what could be in your water. I actually got amoebic dysentery. I'd never been sicker in my life at my site and trying to get down to the capital city was, was, I mean, it's, right now it's kind of a fond memory. It was, it was such an experience and there's some funny parts of it. But at the time I was just really, really sick. And that's because, you know, sometimes you can't, if somebody offers you some tea or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's just it, when you're a guest in somebody's home, you have to accept it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You accept it, you know, and somebody cooks you something. You don't know how clean their hands are, but you're not going to question that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And you survived this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I survived it and I have great stories with some of that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we're talking about water. Um, what about water for bathing and toilets? What did you do for bathrooms?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4008400382737007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You accept it, you know, and somebody cooks you something. You don't know how clean their hands are, but you're not going to question that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. And you survived this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I survived it and I have great stories with some of that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we're talking about water. Um, what about water for bathing and toilets? What did you do for bathrooms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just, you had a bucket and there was a toilet like in both houses. They had a toilet, but you had to fill up a bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and put it in the tank."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7787111536374454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I survived it and I have great stories with some of that. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we're talking about water. Um, what about water for bathing and toilets? What did you do for bathrooms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just, you had a bucket and there was a toilet like in both houses. They had a toilet, but you had to fill up a bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and put it in the tank."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, not in the tank. The one didn't even have a tank. You just poured it in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Into the toilet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.19856794848605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just, you had a bucket and there was a toilet like in both houses. They had a toilet, but you had to fill up a bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and put it in the tank."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, not in the tank. The one didn't even have a tank. You just poured it in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Into the toilet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It'd go down."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.665075498317833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, not in the tank. The one didn't even have a tank. You just poured it in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Into the toilet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It'd go down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To flush. Right. So that wasn't, those things weren't bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did it go then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.110311687727225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tank under there that they would do. And, you know, I never even thought about pumping those things out or what they'd do with them or anything like that. But that would have been an issue at some point. Um. But it was, you know, it's just, I just have such incredible, incredible, fond memories of that. And I realize that, you know, electricity I could really do without. I wasn't, that wasn't that big a deal. Not having running water that, you just realize how much time it takes to do anything, to wash dishes. You got to heat things up, to wash dishes, to take a bath. You know, we would heat water to take a, it was just too darn cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cold, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To take a sponge bath. And you learn how to take a, you know, use a minimal amount of water and take a sponge bath."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Washing clothes, it was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had so little water, which you had to carry, drop of which you had had to carry up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.54359467620645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Washing clothes, it was terrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had so little water, which you had to carry, drop of which you had had to carry up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, you know, my first year I did my own. And then Dodi Majori just said, John, when are you going to stop that? You realize, you know, you give somebody employment here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we talked about it and he said, listen, you don't, you can, you don't have to treat them as if you're a servant. You treat them as an employee, that you're employing them, you treat them fair. That's, there's nothing wrong with that. But having, especially because of, you know, being white there. You know, I asked my students one time, am I better than you because of who I am? And they said yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's so ingrained."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.967400834822777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we talked about it and he said, listen, you don't, you can, you don't have to treat them as if you're a servant. You treat them as an employee, that you're employing them, you treat them fair. That's, there's nothing wrong with that. But having, especially because of, you know, being white there. You know, I asked my students one time, am I better than you because of who I am? And they said yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's so ingrained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's so ingrained. So I was so sensitive to that and didn't want, you know, I'm not, you know, people would call me master and do all that. I mean, it was just what they did. Because if South Africans were visiting up in the mountains, that's what they expected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the second year I ended up hiring this woman to do my laundry because it was just, it was. What a relief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Your primary reason for being there was to be a teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.741556483136418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's so ingrained. So I was so sensitive to that and didn't want, you know, I'm not, you know, people would call me master and do all that. I mean, it was just what they did. Because if South Africans were visiting up in the mountains, that's what they expected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the second year I ended up hiring this woman to do my laundry because it was just, it was. What a relief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Your primary reason for being there was to be a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that to be a good teacher, you need time to prepare and think things through."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.60172942570713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the second year I ended up hiring this woman to do my laundry because it was just, it was. What a relief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Your primary reason for being there was to be a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that to be a good teacher, you need time to prepare and think things through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, you know, so that turned out fine. It turned out wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's go into a classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.557477139674589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that to be a good teacher, you need time to prepare and think things through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, you know, so that turned out fine. It turned out wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's go into a classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the two years you taught in that same school the whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.619419044082877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, you know, so that turned out fine. It turned out wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Let's go into a classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the two years you taught in that same school the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What was the name of the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.653603758127007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What was the name of the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Saint John the Baptist Catholic Mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marakabei. That's the village it was in. Saint John the Baptist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you see me writing things down, it's because later on I'm going to ask you how to spell them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7529742385595117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at the time, actually there was form A, B, C, and D. So ninth, 10th, 11th and 12th grade. Form A was ninth grade. Students were supposed to take an exam to get into ninth grade. And then after their sophomore year, they took another exam to go up to senior second, to go to junior and senior year. Well, this is a small, a small mountain school. So many of the kids coming in, their English was terrible because they were out in these primary schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have teachers that really knew English to teach. They'd come in, but all of a sudden, the curriculum is all in English. And as a matter of fact, after that second year, the exam that you took was marked down in the capital city. And then the one that was done at the end of your senior year, and I was in. The British system has ordinary levels and advanced levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A-levels, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my school is only an ordinary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If somebody wanted to go for the A-level, they would have to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0588602650661243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have teachers that really knew English to teach. They'd come in, but all of a sudden, the curriculum is all in English. And as a matter of fact, after that second year, the exam that you took was marked down in the capital city. And then the one that was done at the end of your senior year, and I was in. The British system has ordinary levels and advanced levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A-levels, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my school is only an ordinary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If somebody wanted to go for the A-level, they would have to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Go someplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go someplace else."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8242253293088124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they had to pass this test at the ordinary level. And at that time those tests were taken and then they were sent back to England."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "England."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For marking. In the history of the school, there had never been anybody that passed O-levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how discouraging."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5284298070079734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was just, well, it was where they were coming from. It's just such a poor base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that leads me to the story. Let me come back to the minute. My first encounter in the classroom, I walked into an A-level math class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An A-level?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. For freshman year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. We're not talking about the A-level exams. We're talking about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8869503790221893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. For freshman year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right. We're not talking about the A-level exams. We're talking about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The A-level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Form A"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Form A. 110 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.096611532246877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The A-level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Form A"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Form A. 110 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a classroom probably as big as this room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is smaller than a standard classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3295683691631965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Form A. 110 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a classroom probably as big as this room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is smaller than a standard classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 110 kids all on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the floor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5884092990702183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a classroom probably as big as this room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is smaller than a standard classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 110 kids all on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the floor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sitting on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't desks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8760103323002424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was 110 kids all on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the floor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sitting on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't desks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's desks, not for the A-level, because there's too many kids. When I got to, um, to the higher level, I was actually ended up being the class teacher. I only had 15 students. So that was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that shows about the attrition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1955670358891584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sitting on the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't desks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's desks, not for the A-level, because there's too many kids. When I got to, um, to the higher level, I was actually ended up being the class teacher. I only had 15 students. So that was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that shows about the attrition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the attrition was just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kids didn't make it through to those higher levels."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5506300398768427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's desks, not for the A-level, because there's too many kids. When I got to, um, to the higher level, I was actually ended up being the class teacher. I only had 15 students. So that was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that shows about the attrition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the attrition was just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kids didn't make it through to those higher levels."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just, and kind of my, kind of one of the things that I do when I teach is I like to walk around and be able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how could you? There's no aisles."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9451444887520473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the attrition was just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kids didn't make it through to those higher levels."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just, and kind of my, kind of one of the things that I do when I teach is I like to walk around and be able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how could you? There's no aisles."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the students are very, very trained that the teacher goes up, writes everything on the board, sits down, and then, and then the students copy it. And I, that was, I wasn't going to teach that way. I ended up doing more of it at the form A level because it was so hard to do anything else with a hundred. And just the noise was just incredible. At that higher level, I could do more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were teaching math and science?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.870548751545737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the students are very, very trained that the teacher goes up, writes everything on the board, sits down, and then, and then the students copy it. And I, that was, I wasn't going to teach that way. I ended up doing more of it at the form A level because it was so hard to do anything else with a hundred. And just the noise was just incredible. At that higher level, I could do more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were teaching math and science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Math and science. I ended up teaching English. I ended up teaching, tried to teach religion, that's all another story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught geography, human and social biology, and math. Um, chemistry. And then they switched my second year from human and social biology to physics, which was just another horrible thing in terms of preparation for those students and what they didn't have in terms of background. So as an incredible, that was my first experience. You know, corporal punishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you expected to mete out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.013023150056465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught geography, human and social biology, and math. Um, chemistry. And then they switched my second year from human and social biology to physics, which was just another horrible thing in terms of preparation for those students and what they didn't have in terms of background. So as an incredible, that was my first experience. You know, corporal punishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you expected to mete out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, I. When they did that one time, I went in to the headmaster and said, I think that's totally inappropriate. I will not do this. And so they would do it behind my back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you would report a student who."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.960885281810808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would get whipped with a plastic that they called it a shambock, a plastic whip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You talk about hurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And there was a lot of improprieties in the school with teachers and students and things like that. And you just kind of, you just said, jeez, what do I do about this? I've got to teach my things. And, you know, I don't know. They learned also not to show me things because they knew my reaction, what my reaction would be. So I lived with that. Not my good, my good friends, we talked about it. Ntate Motjoli and Me Ma Motjoli, both teachers. We talked a lot about it and said it's such a horrible situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, these people you just mentioned, they're the, um?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.845428090900898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You talk about hurt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And there was a lot of improprieties in the school with teachers and students and things like that. And you just kind of, you just said, jeez, what do I do about this? I've got to teach my things. And, you know, I don't know. They learned also not to show me things because they knew my reaction, what my reaction would be. So I lived with that. Not my good, my good friends, we talked about it. Ntate Motjoli and Me Ma Motjoli, both teachers. We talked a lot about it and said it's such a horrible situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, these people you just mentioned, they're the, um?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Lesotho and they were teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lesotho people, okay. What were their names again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.352380359136911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Lesotho and they were teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lesotho people, okay. What were their names again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "M. M-O-T-J-O-L-I. And L-I is pronounced like a D. So Motjoli is the name, was their name. And one of them is Ntate means like father, but that's N-T-A-T-E. Ntate. And then Me, which is just M-E, is, is for, like a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's a respectful way to say, so Ntate Motjoli and Me Ma Motjoli. And Ma is like a mother. Me Ma Motjoli. They were good friends. And then Guy Amar, also, who is a Sri Lankan, became a very good friend. And then my second year, and actually another American, he wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer. He was an Oblate volunteer, a Catholic volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. I've heard of Maryknoll volunteers but there's some difference here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.613755954596568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "M. M-O-T-J-O-L-I. And L-I is pronounced like a D. So Motjoli is the name, was their name. And one of them is Ntate means like father, but that's N-T-A-T-E. Ntate. And then Me, which is just M-E, is, is for, like a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's a respectful way to say, so Ntate Motjoli and Me Ma Motjoli. And Ma is like a mother. Me Ma Motjoli. They were good friends. And then Guy Amar, also, who is a Sri Lankan, became a very good friend. And then my second year, and actually another American, he wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer. He was an Oblate volunteer, a Catholic volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. I've heard of Maryknoll volunteers but there's some difference here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was an Oblate volunteer. Joe D'Andrea, still a very good friend today. He lives in Boston, teaches philosophy at a small college in Boston. Wonderful guy. Just wonderful guy. And then there was a South African, a woman who wanted to get out of apartheid and came up to the mountains. And I learned so much about South Africa. And she was from Cape Town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And she was as against apartheid as you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9041732828850755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's a respectful way to say, so Ntate Motjoli and Me Ma Motjoli. And Ma is like a mother. Me Ma Motjoli. They were good friends. And then Guy Amar, also, who is a Sri Lankan, became a very good friend. And then my second year, and actually another American, he wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer. He was an Oblate volunteer, a Catholic volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. I've heard of Maryknoll volunteers but there's some difference here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was an Oblate volunteer. Joe D'Andrea, still a very good friend today. He lives in Boston, teaches philosophy at a small college in Boston. Wonderful guy. Just wonderful guy. And then there was a South African, a woman who wanted to get out of apartheid and came up to the mountains. And I learned so much about South Africa. And she was from Cape Town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And she was as against apartheid as you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how refreshing to know that it's not a monoculture there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5853991146729327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how refreshing to know that it's not a monoculture there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're the only Peace Corps volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9837767940810362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're the only Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the whole two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.315307548978929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're the only Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. There wasn't another Peace Corps volunteer. There was another volunteer about an hour and a half away by motorcycle. Walking it would have been down in the valley, a long walk. And we did walk it actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your first experience was stepping into a classroom with 110 kids. Were they the same age that we would expect ninth graders to be? Or were they older?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.547746980766707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were both, many of them were older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they sent out herd boys, you know, the tending the cattle or the sheep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The girls had to stay at home and do things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was both boys and girls?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.053052200851897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they sent out herd boys, you know, the tending the cattle or the sheep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The girls had to stay at home and do things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was both boys and girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they're bigger bodies. They're not the bodies of a 13 year old."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.614502445390997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The girls had to stay at home and do things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was both boys and girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they're bigger bodies. They're not the bodies of a 13 year old."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you may have smaller ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You've got some, you've got a mixture. They're all crammed together, sitting on the floor. Did you ever have, did the school ever supply textbooks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.238336050434441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they're bigger bodies. They're not the bodies of a 13 year old."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you may have smaller ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You've got some, you've got a mixture. They're all crammed together, sitting on the floor. Did you ever have, did the school ever supply textbooks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no. Well, we had some textbooks, but not nearly, not for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not, not enough for everybody to have a book."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.59053833386968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no. Well, we had some textbooks, but not nearly, not for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not, not enough for everybody to have a book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that level. When I was in my, my upper level, they would have a science book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the books I got, actually, one of my secondary projects was helping to build a library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.322820370966311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that level. When I was in my, my upper level, they would have a science book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the books I got, actually, one of my secondary projects was helping to build a library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So got some books for the library and got some science equipment, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How difficult to have to prepare people or to try to prepare people to pass an exam which is going to be in English when you don't, when the students don't even have textbooks written in English. That's, that's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.136467078851457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the books I got, actually, one of my secondary projects was helping to build a library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So got some books for the library and got some science equipment, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How difficult to have to prepare people or to try to prepare people to pass an exam which is going to be in English when you don't, when the students don't even have textbooks written in English. That's, that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so self-defeating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.040518976501618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So got some books for the library and got some science equipment, but not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How difficult to have to prepare people or to try to prepare people to pass an exam which is going to be in English when you don't, when the students don't even have textbooks written in English. That's, that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so self-defeating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This. I'll tell this story because it is, it's probably, I'm most proud of it. It just kind of makes me kind of cry in some ways too. It's probably the best thing I ever did in being as a Peace Corps volunteer was not teaching anything. It was getting a student out of our school into the school in Roma, which caused tremendous problems. Matter of fact, the priest of the mission never talked to me again. He would pass me on the road when I was hitchhiking, trying to get out of the mountains because he was so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had arranged for one of his students to go to school where he could actually learn."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.469776514199528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This. I'll tell this story because it is, it's probably, I'm most proud of it. It just kind of makes me kind of cry in some ways too. It's probably the best thing I ever did in being as a Peace Corps volunteer was not teaching anything. It was getting a student out of our school into the school in Roma, which caused tremendous problems. Matter of fact, the priest of the mission never talked to me again. He would pass me on the road when I was hitchhiking, trying to get out of the mountains because he was so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had arranged for one of his students to go to school where he could actually learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the potential for him being the first student to ever pass the O-exam. But Morosi Moshoeshoe was his name. Moshoeshoe is a, is actually a, uh, and it's M-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "M-O-shoe-shoe. But that was, that's very royal. The kings of Lesotho are Moshoeshoes. So Morosi Moshoeshoe had some relative. But he was from way up in the mountains. He came in to me and he said, Ntate John, can you talk to me? Can you tell me what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so that Ntate was applied to you too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.188640571332809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the potential for him being the first student to ever pass the O-exam. But Morosi Moshoeshoe was his name. Moshoeshoe is a, is actually a, uh, and it's M-O."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "M-O-shoe-shoe. But that was, that's very royal. The kings of Lesotho are Moshoeshoes. So Morosi Moshoeshoe had some relative. But he was from way up in the mountains. He came in to me and he said, Ntate John, can you talk to me? Can you tell me what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so that Ntate was applied to you too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were Ntate John."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.171161199176308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were Ntate John."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ntate John. Can you tell talk to me about the Falkland Islands and I went, what? Yeah, what, what was, what's happening with the Falkland Islands? You know, why are the British there? And so I just, I. Morosi was just in an, I mean, a brilliant student. And I talked to the priest of the mission and said, you know, Ntate, he really shouldn't be here. He needs to be someplace where he can really take advantage of the education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't, I don't have a beaker for science. How am I going to really teach him science? And the priest of the mission said, no, he's going to stay here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were getting his tuition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.634623554640342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ntate John. Can you tell talk to me about the Falkland Islands and I went, what? Yeah, what, what was, what's happening with the Falkland Islands? You know, why are the British there? And so I just, I. Morosi was just in an, I mean, a brilliant student. And I talked to the priest of the mission and said, you know, Ntate, he really shouldn't be here. He needs to be someplace where he can really take advantage of the education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't, I don't have a beaker for science. How am I going to really teach him science? And the priest of the mission said, no, he's going to stay here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were getting his tuition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, and he. Part of it I understood, he could have been the potential to be the first person to pass, but that was sacrificing him. So I went down. I got to know during training the brothers at, at Christ the King, which was the school in Roma, where we did our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is 4 hours away."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.149581727378157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We don't, I don't have a beaker for science. How am I going to really teach him science? And the priest of the mission said, no, he's going to stay here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were getting his tuition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, and he. Part of it I understood, he could have been the potential to be the first person to pass, but that was sacrificing him. So I went down. I got to know during training the brothers at, at Christ the King, which was the school in Roma, where we did our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is 4 hours away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it'd be a boarding school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.357508305405132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it'd be a boarding school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a boarding school. I went down. Our school is a boarding school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people came in from the outlying villages, which were even more remote."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9527870060057015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a boarding school. I went down. Our school is a boarding school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people came in from the outlying villages, which were even more remote."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, exactly. So I ended up talking to the brother down at Christ the King, and he had a, saw his exams and then said, oh yeah, we'll get him in here. So I got Morosi out of there, down to Christ the King. Long story short, he ended up graduating from the National University, has been very successful. Just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's he doing now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.614207784450779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people came in from the outlying villages, which were even more remote."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, exactly. So I ended up talking to the brother down at Christ the King, and he had a, saw his exams and then said, oh yeah, we'll get him in here. So I got Morosi out of there, down to Christ the King. Long story short, he ended up graduating from the National University, has been very successful. Just incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's he doing now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is, he's got two businesses, three businesses that he's doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.072987358643044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he's still in Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just heard from him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, no kidding. Are you in touch?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:629", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.081097065158938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he's still in Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just heard from him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, no kidding. Are you in touch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just recently. And but the priest of the mission never really talked to me again, you know? But, you know, I said, you know, if that's, if I look back, I still say that's the best thing I ever did as a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You saved a life."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.841025857581064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it's what we do in terms of changing ourselves does make a big difference. I even look at myself in terms of the career that I ended up taking, you know, training young kids at university and doing some development work in terms of projects on the ground. What I do with my kids, talking to them about voting, talking them about participating in your community, what community's about, you know. Boy, what an impact. And that really, I really attribute that to Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to you being a Peace Corps volunteer. Yes, let's take a break. We're back from a short break. Um, after your first year of teaching, which was seems to me incredibly difficult. Did you have a break? Was there, you started at the beginning of a school year, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. You know, as a Peace Corps volunteer, you accumulate leave time. They do really encourage you to do a secondary project, especially as a teacher, which I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the library."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The library and trying to get science equipment and just kind of working in the community and doing some things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, how did you do that? Did you have to do some fundraising back home or how did you get the money to get books, to get the science equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.662586910262089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. All of that. I wrote to people not only in the U.S. but in Europe, anyplace I could find, you know, where were there pots of money that you might be able to get? And I got some support. I can't even remember what the foundation was. Peace Corps would give us, here's some potential opportunities for funding. And I can't remember. I just remember writing and getting some money. And then I got the Catholic Church to get some money for the library at the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it turned out to be wonderful. It turned out to be really incredible. Um. Never enough books, never enough things for them, but more equipment. But it was better than what we had. The sad part of that, I'll just jump ahead a little bit, is I did end up going back to Lesotho ten years after I, no, 20 years after I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early nineties. And the school is in much worse shape than it was when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that makes you feel bad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.632823346002578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early nineties. And the school is in much worse shape than it was when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that makes you feel bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was just. But at the time it was just, yeah, it was just amazing. It was. But it was just like one schoolhouse and no windows or no glass in the windows. And when it rained, you had to stop because it was just a tin roof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The noise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The noise was so intense. And lightning, you know, you're in the mountains and people would get killed often by being struck by lightning because there was no, Lesotho doesn't have any trees or almost no trees. So it's these bare mountains. And so if you're out walking, it was pretty intense. And so, and students knew that. So when it was lightning, people would dive under desks. And it was pretty, pretty kind of a scary time. And lightning struck close to the houses that we were in on several occasions. So it was, it was, it was just such a great environment. So, so very amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take a break ever?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.36980371778064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was just. But at the time it was just, yeah, it was just amazing. It was. But it was just like one schoolhouse and no windows or no glass in the windows. And when it rained, you had to stop because it was just a tin roof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The noise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The noise was so intense. And lightning, you know, you're in the mountains and people would get killed often by being struck by lightning because there was no, Lesotho doesn't have any trees or almost no trees. So it's these bare mountains. And so if you're out walking, it was pretty intense. And so, and students knew that. So when it was lightning, people would dive under desks. And it was pretty, pretty kind of a scary time. And lightning struck close to the houses that we were in on several occasions. So it was, it was, it was just such a great environment. So, so very amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take a break ever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get some vacation? You said it accumulated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:651", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.077559686422937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The noise was so intense. And lightning, you know, you're in the mountains and people would get killed often by being struck by lightning because there was no, Lesotho doesn't have any trees or almost no trees. So it's these bare mountains. And so if you're out walking, it was pretty intense. And so, and students knew that. So when it was lightning, people would dive under desks. And it was pretty, pretty kind of a scary time. And lightning struck close to the houses that we were in on several occasions. So it was, it was, it was just such a great environment. So, so very amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take a break ever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get some vacation? You said it accumulated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We went, I actually had one of the most incredible vacations I've ever had in my life where we hitchhiked to what they called the Wild Coast. You know, at the time, politically, South Africa was making these, these homelands and saying that they're independent countries. And the only, I think the only country that recognized them in independent countries was Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And we're not talking about Swaziland and Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:653", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.30839965158104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get some vacation? You said it accumulated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We went, I actually had one of the most incredible vacations I've ever had in my life where we hitchhiked to what they called the Wild Coast. You know, at the time, politically, South Africa was making these, these homelands and saying that they're independent countries. And the only, I think the only country that recognized them in independent countries was Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And we're not talking about Swaziland and Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. We're talking about the Transkei and the Ciskei, all of these that were in South Africa that they made into supposedly independent countries. So there was one called the Transkei, which is along the eastern border of South Africa, absolutely beautiful. So we hitchhiked to the, Durban is the big city kind of in the north. We hitchhiked to Durban and then went down the, went to a place where the road was. And by the way, there was a Holiday Inn with a casino. So if you're in South Africa, it was illegal for gambling. Prostitution was illegal. But they put prostitution and gambling in Lesotho, Swaziland, Botswana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and so the South Africans would come in"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.231555168423377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We went, I actually had one of the most incredible vacations I've ever had in my life where we hitchhiked to what they called the Wild Coast. You know, at the time, politically, South Africa was making these, these homelands and saying that they're independent countries. And the only, I think the only country that recognized them in independent countries was Israel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. And we're not talking about Swaziland and Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. We're talking about the Transkei and the Ciskei, all of these that were in South Africa that they made into supposedly independent countries. So there was one called the Transkei, which is along the eastern border of South Africa, absolutely beautiful. So we hitchhiked to the, Durban is the big city kind of in the north. We hitchhiked to Durban and then went down the, went to a place where the road was. And by the way, there was a Holiday Inn with a casino. So if you're in South Africa, it was illegal for gambling. Prostitution was illegal. But they put prostitution and gambling in Lesotho, Swaziland, Botswana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and so the South Africans would come in"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In these homelands. Right. So Sun City is one that people have often heard of up by Johannesburg, which was this big playground for South Africans that was in, I forget which homeland it was in. And these homelands were like islands. They weren't necessarily contiguous, they were broken up in some cases. So we went to this Holiday Inn, and from there on there were no more roads down the coast. So we walked down the coast for ten days to a place called Port Saint John's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, you walked for ten days?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.035061298248197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. We're talking about the Transkei and the Ciskei, all of these that were in South Africa that they made into supposedly independent countries. So there was one called the Transkei, which is along the eastern border of South Africa, absolutely beautiful. So we hitchhiked to the, Durban is the big city kind of in the north. We hitchhiked to Durban and then went down the, went to a place where the road was. And by the way, there was a Holiday Inn with a casino. So if you're in South Africa, it was illegal for gambling. Prostitution was illegal. But they put prostitution and gambling in Lesotho, Swaziland, Botswana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and so the South Africans would come in"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In these homelands. Right. So Sun City is one that people have often heard of up by Johannesburg, which was this big playground for South Africans that was in, I forget which homeland it was in. And these homelands were like islands. They weren't necessarily contiguous, they were broken up in some cases. So we went to this Holiday Inn, and from there on there were no more roads down the coast. So we walked down the coast for ten days to a place called Port Saint John's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, you walked for ten days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just incredible because you'd have these white sandy beaches and the way that the, um, Ndebele they're called, where they live. And that's where Nelson Mandela was from. They didn't live right on the coast. They lived inland. So the coast itself was pretty deserted. And there was actually a, um, game preserve right on the coast that we had to swim across the river to get to. And then there was people with guns on one side saying, what are you doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.816734775831329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In these homelands. Right. So Sun City is one that people have often heard of up by Johannesburg, which was this big playground for South Africans that was in, I forget which homeland it was in. And these homelands were like islands. They weren't necessarily contiguous, they were broken up in some cases. So we went to this Holiday Inn, and from there on there were no more roads down the coast. So we walked down the coast for ten days to a place called Port Saint John's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, you walked for ten days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just incredible because you'd have these white sandy beaches and the way that the, um, Ndebele they're called, where they live. And that's where Nelson Mandela was from. They didn't live right on the coast. They lived inland. So the coast itself was pretty deserted. And there was actually a, um, game preserve right on the coast that we had to swim across the river to get to. And then there was people with guns on one side saying, what are you doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we told them, that they took us across the game reserve. So we saw, it was the first time I saw giraffe and some other big game. And then we walked down the coast to this place called Port St. John's. And so it was, and we were out, there was three of us that did it. And it was just magical because you have no electricity, you're right on the coast. We'd go out and wade in and get mussels off the rocks and have steamed mussels and we got bread. There were some villages we could walk inland a little bit and buy bread and peanut butter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We you're saying, who's with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4774503405325055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we told them, that they took us across the game reserve. So we saw, it was the first time I saw giraffe and some other big game. And then we walked down the coast to this place called Port St. John's. And so it was, and we were out, there was three of us that did it. And it was just magical because you have no electricity, you're right on the coast. We'd go out and wade in and get mussels off the rocks and have steamed mussels and we got bread. There were some villages we could walk inland a little bit and buy bread and peanut butter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We you're saying, who's with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guy by the name of Dave Roush. Dave is now a math professor at the University of Denver and, and Deb McDuffie. And Deb is, uh, she works in. I've lost touch with Deb. She's in upstate New York and had just lost touch with. So three of us in our group along the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just, yeah, it was just absolutely amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this sort of at the halfway point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.863833711702784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guy by the name of Dave Roush. Dave is now a math professor at the University of Denver and, and Deb McDuffie. And Deb is, uh, she works in. I've lost touch with Deb. She's in upstate New York and had just lost touch with. So three of us in our group along the coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just, yeah, it was just absolutely amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this sort of at the halfway point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your school would have, the students would have had a break of a couple of weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1820374574475374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just, yeah, it was just absolutely amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this sort of at the halfway point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your school would have, the students would have had a break of a couple of weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Yeah. And one of the, another time I want during the school we did it, is that we actually took the kids to Durbin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took your students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:669", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5355971749417083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your school would have, the students would have had a break of a couple of weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Yeah. And one of the, another time I want during the school we did it, is that we actually took the kids to Durbin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Took your students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Took group students to Durbin. Got money from the mission and from the, to take them there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:673", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2538236727675414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Took group students to Durbin. Got money from the mission and from the, to take them there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They'd never been out of the mountains. Some of these kids had never been in the lowlands of Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time some of them have ever seen more than a two story building. When they went through at the border, I had to get out because it was illegal for me to ride with the students because they were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you're in South Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.017066262675977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time some of them have ever seen more than a two story building. When they went through at the border, I had to get out because it was illegal for me to ride with the students because they were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once you're in South Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once you're in South Africa. So they got out in the bus and I hitchhiked to, there was a lot of hitchhiking at that time. I hitchhiked to Durban."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then at the beaches in Durban, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you met up with the students."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:679", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.463406958528863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once you're in South Africa. So they got out in the bus and I hitchhiked to, there was a lot of hitchhiking at that time. I hitchhiked to Durban."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then at the beaches in Durban, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you met up with the students."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I couldn't stay with them. It was illegal. And I wasn't actually supposed to be on the beach with them. They had Black white beaches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only, um, staff person from the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.959341065032071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then at the beaches in Durban, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you met up with the students."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I couldn't stay with them. It was illegal. And I wasn't actually supposed to be on the beach with them. They had Black white beaches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only, um, staff person from the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was a couple other teachers that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that helped."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:683", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.510378961146745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I couldn't stay with them. It was illegal. And I wasn't actually supposed to be on the beach with them. They had Black white beaches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only, um, staff person from the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was a couple other teachers that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that helped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went with them, that they could stay because they were Basotho. They were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. They were Black so they could be on the bus with the kids. Okay, that's good, I was worried about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.0115321790519385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was a couple other teachers that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that helped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went with them, that they could stay because they were Basotho. They were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. They were Black so they could be on the bus with the kids. Okay, that's good, I was worried about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was an incredible experience. Just another eye opener about what that was like. Just, just incredible. And you got, actually on the way back from Port St. John's to Lesotho to come back, I don't know why Dave wasn't with us at this point, but Deb and I split off to come back and we were hitchhiking and got into a, inevitably what happened when you got picked up by a South African, especially a farmer. She'd get around to conversation and eventually they'd say, well, what do you think about our Blacks?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of course, when you say a South African farmer, this is a white guy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.457257976724376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went with them, that they could stay because they were Basotho. They were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. They were Black so they could be on the bus with the kids. Okay, that's good, I was worried about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was an incredible experience. Just another eye opener about what that was like. Just, just incredible. And you got, actually on the way back from Port St. John's to Lesotho to come back, I don't know why Dave wasn't with us at this point, but Deb and I split off to come back and we were hitchhiking and got into a, inevitably what happened when you got picked up by a South African, especially a farmer. She'd get around to conversation and eventually they'd say, well, what do you think about our Blacks?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of course, when you say a South African farmer, this is a white guy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this is a white guy, an Afrikaner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he'd get around to asking you, what do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:689", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.952508863027084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that was an incredible experience. Just another eye opener about what that was like. Just, just incredible. And you got, actually on the way back from Port St. John's to Lesotho to come back, I don't know why Dave wasn't with us at this point, but Deb and I split off to come back and we were hitchhiking and got into a, inevitably what happened when you got picked up by a South African, especially a farmer. She'd get around to conversation and eventually they'd say, well, what do you think about our Blacks?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of course, when you say a South African farmer, this is a white guy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, this is a white guy, an Afrikaner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he'd get around to asking you, what do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you think about our Black guys? And they would say that, what do you think about our Blacks? They're not like your Blacks. They were. And you know, most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do they know, what's their conception of an American black person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:693", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8919862506507203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you think about our Black guys? And they would say that, what do you think about our Blacks? They're not like your Blacks. They were. And you know, most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do they know, what's their conception of an American black person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, much more smarter, uh, much more, um, kind of knowing their own skills and things, where their Blacks were lazy and, and, you know, couldn't trust them. They'd steal, all of this stuff. So most of the time you did, you'd say, do I say something? I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Do I say something? You say, well, you know, we all have our own, you know, we all have our own way of looking at things. And, and, you know, what you do in your own country is different than what we do in our country. So you do something political. You kind of lost a little bit of your soul, I think, every time you did that. But you did wear your, well, this time I didn't. This is an old farmer and I was just fed up with it. And I just said, I think it's absolutely atrocious about how Blacks are treated. And the people I know are incredibly bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we're out in the middle of what's called the Karoo. We're in the middle of, you're, in parts of South Africa, you're out in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing around. Probably the closest town was, it was, it was Bloemfontein, it was 50 miles away. He let us off, goes well I think it's time for the two of you to get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there you are, fifty, five-oh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:695", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.324429167389689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, much more smarter, uh, much more, um, kind of knowing their own skills and things, where their Blacks were lazy and, and, you know, couldn't trust them. They'd steal, all of this stuff. So most of the time you did, you'd say, do I say something? I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Do I say something? You say, well, you know, we all have our own, you know, we all have our own way of looking at things. And, and, you know, what you do in your own country is different than what we do in our country. So you do something political. You kind of lost a little bit of your soul, I think, every time you did that. But you did wear your, well, this time I didn't. This is an old farmer and I was just fed up with it. And I just said, I think it's absolutely atrocious about how Blacks are treated. And the people I know are incredibly bright."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we're out in the middle of what's called the Karoo. We're in the middle of, you're, in parts of South Africa, you're out in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing around. Probably the closest town was, it was, it was Bloemfontein, it was 50 miles away. He let us off, goes well I think it's time for the two of you to get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there you are, fifty, five-oh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five-oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "50 miles away from the nearest city."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:699", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.338801441221838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five-oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "50 miles away from the nearest city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we're out in the middle of nowhere. And of course Deb's going to me, what did you do? Well, we were out, and it was, I remember it was dark and there was a big truck. You know, most people would pass you by. You're out in the middle of it. And because a lot of the drivers were Black and they'd never pick up a white."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They wouldn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you'd get, they'd get in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:701", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.932001601357597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we're out in the middle of nowhere. And of course Deb's going to me, what did you do? Well, we were out, and it was, I remember it was dark and there was a big truck. You know, most people would pass you by. You're out in the middle of it. And because a lot of the drivers were Black and they'd never pick up a white."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They wouldn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you'd get, they'd get in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could get in trouble. But a truck came and we were hitchhiking and a truck stopped. And when he saw us, afterwards he goes, if I would have known you were white, I never would have picked you up. But he ended up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was a Black Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.59111289039733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because you'd get, they'd get in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They could get in trouble. But a truck came and we were hitchhiking and a truck stopped. And when he saw us, afterwards he goes, if I would have known you were white, I never would have picked you up. But he ended up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was a Black Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was. He was, no, he was actually colored. See."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, okay, there's this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.868995055627242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indian maybe. But then you had Indians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Indians, but some of these, like to go across the Orange Free State, an Indian had to get a special permit. And then you had whites, but then you had two classes of whites, you had the English whites and you had the Afrikaans. And so it was such. And there was a big, you know, in World War II, the British put Afrikaans in concentration camps. Many Afrikaans died if you look at the history of World War II, because they supported Hitler."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they thought if they defeat the British, we can get rid of the British."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of South Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:721", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.37280148700997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The apartheid was just, it was an amazing, amazingly effective system for what they wanted to have done. Completely dehumanizing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it always, you know, when people say that, even like whites that have been overseas and especially where I was, and they say they know what it's like to be in a minority. You don't. You're in a minority in a very privileged sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have no idea what it's like when it would be flipped. I have no idea. In almost any place I've been in the world, that's the case. Yes, I might be the only white person, but I'm also seen at a, you know, a higher level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, exactly. When somebody in the African bush reaches out to touch your hair, it's not the same as a white person assuming that privilege with a Black person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:723", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.858668318899967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it always, you know, when people say that, even like whites that have been overseas and especially where I was, and they say they know what it's like to be in a minority. You don't. You're in a minority in a very privileged sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have no idea what it's like when it would be flipped. I have no idea. In almost any place I've been in the world, that's the case. Yes, I might be the only white person, but I'm also seen at a, you know, a higher level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, exactly. When somebody in the African bush reaches out to touch your hair, it's not the same as a white person assuming that privilege with a Black person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very different thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:725", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3985203543332965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have no idea what it's like when it would be flipped. I have no idea. In almost any place I've been in the world, that's the case. Yes, I might be the only white person, but I'm also seen at a, you know, a higher level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes, exactly. When somebody in the African bush reaches out to touch your hair, it's not the same as a white person assuming that privilege with a Black person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very different thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, you're having these extraordinary experiences. You're learning so much. You've got family back here in Madison. Well, your mom is back here in Madison."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:727", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.998355949259218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very different thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, you're having these extraordinary experiences. You're learning so much. You've got family back here in Madison. Well, your mom is back here in Madison."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and my brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your brother. And the only way to communicate with them is writing letters. Did you have those blue air letters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.664839943621353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, you're having these extraordinary experiences. You're learning so much. You've got family back here in Madison. Well, your mom is back here in Madison."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and my brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your brother. And the only way to communicate with them is writing letters. Did you have those blue air letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air grams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:731", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.405377715134836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and my brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your brother. And the only way to communicate with them is writing letters. Did you have those blue air letters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air grams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd write those and for, what would happen for us is that the mail truck would come up and drop the mail down in at the, um, shop down in the valley, and then we'd be sitting at our, on our porch and we could watch the mail coming up by horse. So they would bring the mail up by horse and you could watch. And it was, and then there was a little post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd bring it up to you at the mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:733", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.117086350149818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air grams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd write those and for, what would happen for us is that the mail truck would come up and drop the mail down in at the, um, shop down in the valley, and then we'd be sitting at our, on our porch and we could watch the mail coming up by horse. So they would bring the mail up by horse and you could watch. And it was, and then there was a little post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd bring it up to you at the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. At the mission, right, there was a post office on the mission that people. So you could, but you could. It was delivered by horse. And you know, the communication, it would take, it would take a month to two months for the letter to, you know, if you gave it, who knows how long it takes to get back to the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might be a month or two months before your mother would get a letter that you had posted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3060169412206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and I'd seen one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time I think we went four or five months without hearing from each other. And so she's wondering what the heck's going on. I'm wondering what the heck's going on. I did, during that time, I did call home because I was really worried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could book, when I went down to the capital city, you could book a call at the post office. Was that the post office? I can't, I can't remember now. You could book a call into and you could also go into a, you know, we had in the capital city of Maseru, you had a Holiday Inn with the casino. You had a Hilton with a casino, beautiful hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those hotels had phones?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:741", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.00668549024511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time I think we went four or five months without hearing from each other. And so she's wondering what the heck's going on. I'm wondering what the heck's going on. I did, during that time, I did call home because I was really worried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could book, when I went down to the capital city, you could book a call at the post office. Was that the post office? I can't, I can't remember now. You could book a call into and you could also go into a, you know, we had in the capital city of Maseru, you had a Holiday Inn with the casino. You had a Hilton with a casino, beautiful hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those hotels had phones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yes, right. That was my experience. I had to go to a fancy hotel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:743", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.785206100272345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could book, when I went down to the capital city, you could book a call at the post office. Was that the post office? I can't, I can't remember now. You could book a call into and you could also go into a, you know, we had in the capital city of Maseru, you had a Holiday Inn with the casino. You had a Hilton with a casino, beautiful hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those hotels had phones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yes, right. That was my experience. I had to go to a fancy hotel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were, they were definitely, you know, you didn't stay in those. They were more expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went into their lobby, maybe use the bathroom and make a phone call."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:745", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.650229000302605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yes, right. That was my experience. I had to go to a fancy hotel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were, they were definitely, you know, you didn't stay in those. They were more expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went into their lobby, maybe use the bathroom and make a phone call."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually did stay there one time, and this is kind of a funny story. I told you about the ANC in South Africa. Well, the ANC had a raid in South Africa. South Africa closed the borders, actually flew jets over and said they were, because that the Lesotho army captured some South African military. And they said, South Africa said, if you don't return our military, we're going to bomb your capital. So they flew everybody over and there was all this tension. And Peace Corps in its ultimate wisdom, I say that tongue in cheek, brought all the volunteers out of their sites to the capital city, which was exactly where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was the place that would be bombed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:747", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.500254444780673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were, they were definitely, you know, you didn't stay in those. They were more expensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you went into their lobby, maybe use the bathroom and make a phone call."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually did stay there one time, and this is kind of a funny story. I told you about the ANC in South Africa. Well, the ANC had a raid in South Africa. South Africa closed the borders, actually flew jets over and said they were, because that the Lesotho army captured some South African military. And they said, South Africa said, if you don't return our military, we're going to bomb your capital. So they flew everybody over and there was all this tension. And Peace Corps in its ultimate wisdom, I say that tongue in cheek, brought all the volunteers out of their sites to the capital city, which was exactly where."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was the place that would be bombed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, the funny part of it is, so they put us up in the Holiday Inn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is also a casino."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.802783265161323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, the funny part of it is, so they put us up in the Holiday Inn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is also a casino."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were having the Miss Nude South Africa contest. So there are all these volunteers coming in and there were all these women, you know, and they were white women, sitting around with no tops on and they're sunbathing and it's the Miss Nude. And you had all these Afrikaan men and all these. It was, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Surreal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was surreal. It was so bizarre. It was so bizarre. And we had some volunteers that lost all their, because there was a casino, there wasn't really anything to do. So they lost all their, their monthly allowance and barely limped back up to their site once they let us go after a couple of days of wisdom saying, well, maybe this isn't the best place for all these volunteers to be. It was just kind of crazy, kind of crazy stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like you had a very full two years as a volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:753", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.447536961290359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were having the Miss Nude South Africa contest. So there are all these volunteers coming in and there were all these women, you know, and they were white women, sitting around with no tops on and they're sunbathing and it's the Miss Nude. And you had all these Afrikaan men and all these. It was, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Surreal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was surreal. It was so bizarre. It was so bizarre. And we had some volunteers that lost all their, because there was a casino, there wasn't really anything to do. So they lost all their, their monthly allowance and barely limped back up to their site once they let us go after a couple of days of wisdom saying, well, maybe this isn't the best place for all these volunteers to be. It was just kind of crazy, kind of crazy stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it sounds like you had a very full two years as a volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. It was absolutely wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about that happened during those two years that you want to make sure?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:757", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.256218470728838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. It was absolutely wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else about that happened during those two years that you want to make sure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just think the, the, to really kind of focus. The depth of friendships that you get there can change you for a lifetime. You know, it's not just the friendships of other Americans, other volunteers, it's the whole host of things that you learn about. So sitting around and having, talking about, you know, what's going on in Ireland and Northern Ireland and that at the time and their perspectives on that, and talking about all these other things happening in sub-Saharan Africa. You know, that's just, I mean, that's an education that you can't duplicate in any place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then like I said, Phyllis, I think the biggest thing, and I do. I do. I wish more Americans would do that. You know, then learning about your own role in this world and what can you do or can't do or what do you want to try to, to accomplish? I think it's just. I just think it's invaluable. To me it changed my life. I think it changed the life of my wife. I think it like changed the life of my kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your wife in the Peace Corps, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:759", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.729131634143153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just think the, the, to really kind of focus. The depth of friendships that you get there can change you for a lifetime. You know, it's not just the friendships of other Americans, other volunteers, it's the whole host of things that you learn about. So sitting around and having, talking about, you know, what's going on in Ireland and Northern Ireland and that at the time and their perspectives on that, and talking about all these other things happening in sub-Saharan Africa. You know, that's just, I mean, that's an education that you can't duplicate in any place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then like I said, Phyllis, I think the biggest thing, and I do. I do. I wish more Americans would do that. You know, then learning about your own role in this world and what can you do or can't do or what do you want to try to, to accomplish? I think it's just. I just think it's invaluable. To me it changed my life. I think it changed the life of my wife. I think it like changed the life of my kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your wife in the Peace Corps, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She wasn't, but she always wishes she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah. When you finished your two years, was there some kind of debriefing in maybe Maseru?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:761", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.143479593492392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then like I said, Phyllis, I think the biggest thing, and I do. I do. I wish more Americans would do that. You know, then learning about your own role in this world and what can you do or can't do or what do you want to try to, to accomplish? I think it's just. I just think it's invaluable. To me it changed my life. I think it changed the life of my wife. I think it like changed the life of my kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your wife in the Peace Corps, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She wasn't, but she always wishes she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, yeah. When you finished your two years, was there some kind of debriefing in maybe Maseru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had. We had, we had those COS conferences, close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "COS being closing of service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:765", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.004295794435051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had. We had, we had those COS conferences, close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "COS being closing of service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Conferences. And so we had a close of service conference and debriefing. And I ended up staying a little bit longer because I ended up doing, helping with training and doing some other things with Peace Corps volunteers coming in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my total time was about three years almost in Lesotho. So yeah, it was just an incredible, incredible experience. I still look back on that as, you know, if I, and my wife and I talk about this, about the potential of doing Peace Corps again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you, do you? And you'd do it together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:771", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.492861172064541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we'd do it together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I don't know if that will happen or not. It depends on our health and things like that. But we'll see because I think it still is an incredible experience. So I would, you know, I, again, I come back to I really do think that having young people do it and learn about this and people learn about them and etcetera is just so incredibly valuable. And man, don't we need it more today than any other time when there's so many tensions and people?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things that they're saying about other cultures and things, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People are grouping together with like-minded groups."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:773", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.992067968960601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I don't know if that will happen or not. It depends on our health and things like that. But we'll see because I think it still is an incredible experience. So I would, you know, I, again, I come back to I really do think that having young people do it and learn about this and people learn about them and etcetera is just so incredibly valuable. And man, don't we need it more today than any other time when there's so many tensions and people?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things that they're saying about other cultures and things, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People are grouping together with like-minded groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Nationalist tendencies that's happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. After you left Lesotho, you went on to have a very international life. You were, you were Peace Corps staff in Papua New Guinea as associate director for a couple of years or a year maybe. And then you went on to be associate director and then acting country director in Fiji."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:775", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.546742187734001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things that they're saying about other cultures and things, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People are grouping together with like-minded groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Nationalist tendencies that's happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. After you left Lesotho, you went on to have a very international life. You were, you were Peace Corps staff in Papua New Guinea as associate director for a couple of years or a year maybe. And then you went on to be associate director and then acting country director in Fiji."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think that you'd be the best kind of Peace Corps director because you had been a volunteer yourself and you could, um."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:781", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.608699846000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's, to me it was just, it was absolutely wonderful being able to develop projects. One of the things I always emphasize to volunteers at that time too was don't get so hung up on your job. Your job is, yes, you want to try to do some things, but you can't do your job until you really get to know people and understand people. And, and we as Americans, we just want to get in and do stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Positive or negative in a sense, we just want to see ourselves doing stuff. And that's, that still happens with all these development projects I see today. You know, we want to just do stuff. Well, doing stuff might not be the right thing. We want to try to do the right things. And we can't do stuff for people. People have to do stuff for themselves. We can try to facilitate and help out. And that, that's a long-term commitment. It's not going to happen in a couple of years. So it was always fun kind of talking to people and, you know, that works and doesn't work. And part of that is just learning through experience about that because, you know, you, and the more technical you get.\n\nWe had, when I was in Fiji, we had a lot of senior volunteers because it's a, it was a safe country. There wasn't, very little, you know, disease. Beautiful. So we had a lot of retired people that were very successful bankers and, you know, people that were very successful in businesses. And getting them to say, you're not transplanting an America to these places. You've got to figure out how you take the skills that you have but do it within that context. It was extremely difficult. I mean, we had just too many older volunteers that would just say, well, this is the way to do it. If they want to be successful, they need to do it this way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, slow down there. Um, some. Uh. Did you go back to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:783", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.454110940000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Positive or negative in a sense, we just want to see ourselves doing stuff. And that's, that still happens with all these development projects I see today. You know, we want to just do stuff. Well, doing stuff might not be the right thing. We want to try to do the right things. And we can't do stuff for people. People have to do stuff for themselves. We can try to facilitate and help out. And that, that's a long-term commitment. It's not going to happen in a couple of years. So it was always fun kind of talking to people and, you know, that works and doesn't work. And part of that is just learning through experience about that because, you know, you, and the more technical you get.\n\nWe had, when I was in Fiji, we had a lot of senior volunteers because it's a, it was a safe country. There wasn't, very little, you know, disease. Beautiful. So we had a lot of retired people that were very successful bankers and, you know, people that were very successful in businesses. And getting them to say, you're not transplanting an America to these places. You've got to figure out how you take the skills that you have but do it within that context. It was extremely difficult. I mean, we had just too many older volunteers that would just say, well, this is the way to do it. If they want to be successful, they need to do it this way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, slow down there. Um, some. Uh. Did you go back to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did in between, after the Peace Corps. So that time when I was doing the trainings, I was in school. I was in graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, here at UW?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:785", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.3934566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did in between, after the Peace Corps. So that time when I was doing the trainings, I was in school. I was in graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, here at UW?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Madison. I ended up going to Madison because it was just cheaper for me to stay in state and go here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And so what were you studying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:789", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.596860000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Madison. I ended up going to Madison because it was just cheaper for me to stay in state and go here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. And so what were you studying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing agricultural extension, so I really wanted to work with agricultural extension agents internationally. I had planned to stay overseas the rest of my life working on projects and things. And then I met my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did go overseas to, but my daughter was born and my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your wife went with you to Papua New Guinea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:795", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.34, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was supposed to, that's a whole story where that became. Papua New Guinea is a very, culturally it's the most incredible place I've ever been, but it's also has a lot of security issues. There's a lot of things culturally that happen. So if you do something, if you're a male and you do something to me, I get back at you by doing something to your wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became, it became really. And some things happened that, you know, where some people tried to take my counterpart in the Ministry of Education by gunpoint. And I ended up getting out of this situation, um, and they smashed my window with a shotgun. And I said, my wife can't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a small, our daughter was just small. So then we went to Fiji and they were in Fiji for two years with us. But then my mother started having health problems, Linda. We said, do we want grandparents as a part of our kids lives? We wanted, we knew we wanted at least one more child. And so that's when we decided to come back and see what happens. And so we came back and, you know, I had been offered a job in Washington, D.C., but I said, I don't, I want to, you know, if we're going to do this, let's have them as a part of their lives. So we ended up settling in Madison. I ended up working at the, where I am now in the College of Ag and Life Sciences in their international programs office, working on international projects all over the world and trying to teach and do some things using my experiences and had some wonderful bosses there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spoke of Uganda."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:797", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became, it became really. And some things happened that, you know, where some people tried to take my counterpart in the Ministry of Education by gunpoint. And I ended up getting out of this situation, um, and they smashed my window with a shotgun. And I said, my wife can't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a small, our daughter was just small. So then we went to Fiji and they were in Fiji for two years with us. But then my mother started having health problems, Linda. We said, do we want grandparents as a part of our kids lives? We wanted, we knew we wanted at least one more child. And so that's when we decided to come back and see what happens. And so we came back and, you know, I had been offered a job in Washington, D.C., but I said, I don't, I want to, you know, if we're going to do this, let's have them as a part of their lives. So we ended up settling in Madison. I ended up working at the, where I am now in the College of Ag and Life Sciences in their international programs office, working on international projects all over the world and trying to teach and do some things using my experiences and had some wonderful bosses there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spoke of Uganda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know that, uh, I think a colleague of yours, Dr. Cindy Haq?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:799", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 14.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a small, our daughter was just small. So then we went to Fiji and they were in Fiji for two years with us. But then my mother started having health problems, Linda. We said, do we want grandparents as a part of our kids lives? We wanted, we knew we wanted at least one more child. And so that's when we decided to come back and see what happens. And so we came back and, you know, I had been offered a job in Washington, D.C., but I said, I don't, I want to, you know, if we're going to do this, let's have them as a part of their lives. So we ended up settling in Madison. I ended up working at the, where I am now in the College of Ag and Life Sciences in their international programs office, working on international projects all over the world and trying to teach and do some things using my experiences and had some wonderful bosses there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spoke of Uganda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know that, uh, I think a colleague of yours, Dr. Cindy Haq?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has been doing, from the University of Wisconsin Global Health Institute, has also been doing projects in Uganda."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:801", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I know that, uh, I think a colleague of yours, Dr. Cindy Haq?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Has been doing, from the University of Wisconsin Global Health Institute, has also been doing projects in Uganda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we actually helped Cindy start the medical schools program in Uganda. I do this with a colleague, James Ntambi. James is a professor of biochemistry and nutritional sciences here. He's Ugandan. And James and I started this program. This will be our 15th year taking. We teach a course in the fall on international health and nutrition and then take students over winter break to Uganda, where we go to hospitals and clinics and villages. We're based in a village, doing some incredible work in this village, we're really kind of a place based approach over the last four years.\n\nUm, but have worked with Cindy. Cindy did her, part of her residency there back in the eighties, right when the current President Museveni was coming into power. Her daughter is now married to a Ugandan, and Chris and, they have a daughter. And I just saw them last year when I was there because her daughter graduated from medical school here, is doing her residency down at Baylor University in Texas. And they have a big program in Uganda. So Heather had gone back. And so, yeah, Cindy's, Cindy's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're still at it. You're very much internationally involved."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:805", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we actually helped Cindy start the medical schools program in Uganda. I do this with a colleague, James Ntambi. James is a professor of biochemistry and nutritional sciences here. He's Ugandan. And James and I started this program. This will be our 15th year taking. We teach a course in the fall on international health and nutrition and then take students over winter break to Uganda, where we go to hospitals and clinics and villages. We're based in a village, doing some incredible work in this village, we're really kind of a place based approach over the last four years.\n\nUm, but have worked with Cindy. Cindy did her, part of her residency there back in the eighties, right when the current President Museveni was coming into power. Her daughter is now married to a Ugandan, and Chris and, they have a daughter. And I just saw them last year when I was there because her daughter graduated from medical school here, is doing her residency down at Baylor University in Texas. And they have a big program in Uganda. So Heather had gone back. And so, yeah, Cindy's, Cindy's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're still at it. You're very much internationally involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. And I am still, you know, I still try to do as much with Peace Corps. I was in charge for a while here when the Peace Corps recruiter was based out of our office. So I would help with the recruiter, and I still do whenever I can, I, I try to help out because it's such an incredible experience. I'd like to get back involved with kind of the Peace Corps group, the returned Peace Corps volunteer group. It's just time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I will do that again at some point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that we need to touch on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00022:809", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I will do that again at some point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that we need to touch on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I just, you know, it's, it's just such an incredible experience. And as I said and I, I wish everybody could do it. It's not for everybody. But I, I just wish people could have that experience of seeing themselves in a different culture and seeing that culture, how that, that experience changes them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Phyllis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, John."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00705:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 64.38254707956153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t so bad day-wise, I think it was only two days. That was LDEF, I think that was like STS-[32]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your other memorable ferry flights, and how many have you done since you’ve been here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to recollect. I think I’ve done probably 40 of them, somewhere in that neighborhood, between [SCA] 911 and [SCA] 905. 911 came along in ’89 I think it was. We picked up the second airplane for a couple reasons. They realized that if we had a failure of the 905 for some reason, it would impact the Shuttle program by 18 months because of those skin issues, making those skins. So they went ahead and got the second airplane. I think they started that in probably ’86, and then it finally came to fruition in ’89. I think the first flight was ’90, I think we moved Endeavour on its first flight from Palmdale [California] to here when it was brand new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, I was on the airplane too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, because it was inert, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00705:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 30, "return_to_go": 71.53616342173504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to recollect. I think I’ve done probably 40 of them, somewhere in that neighborhood, between [SCA] 911 and [SCA] 905. 911 came along in ’89 I think it was. We picked up the second airplane for a couple reasons. They realized that if we had a failure of the 905 for some reason, it would impact the Shuttle program by 18 months because of those skin issues, making those skins. So they went ahead and got the second airplane. I think they started that in probably ’86, and then it finally came to fruition in ’89. I think the first flight was ’90, I think we moved Endeavour on its first flight from Palmdale [California] to here when it was brand new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on that flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, I was on the airplane too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, because it was inert, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was inert then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about some of those stops."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00705:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 52.52248639231204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Structural differences and gear differences. The gear on 911, because it was used as a commuter airplane, it’s actually a 747-SR-46. It’s called short range, SR-46. What that gives you is a beefed-up gear system compared to a normal 100 Model like we have on 905. And it has taller tires, one-inch different-size wheels than 905, which has 16s. The 911 has 17s. That gives you more weight-carrying capability, landing capability.\\n\\n The total gross weight of either airplane is about the same, 700,000. We don’t want to exceed that. The empty weight of 911 is 323,000, and the empty weight of 905 I think is 318. That’s always a good number to know, because you have to add the Shuttle weight and then you add the fuel weight, and that’s the weight that you don’t want to exceed at the end. You want to be under 700,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you guys have names for the planes? They’re referred to by their tail numbers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No no, we never got into that kind of idea. There was a guard on the airplane. 905 had an armed guard on the airplane 24 hours a day because it was a single-source asset. That’s another reason we got 911, to take some of the pressure off the security issue of the airplane. She thought that airplane was hers, she used to call it “the lady.” “How’s my lady, today?” she used to say. That was kind of funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she had that guard from ’77 until you had 911 delivered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well not the same guard, but there was a guard group. She was active there for four or five years I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Tell us about how many people go on the Pathfinder that you were on. Obviously your crew, and I understand people who were Shuttle folks and DoD [Department of Defense]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00705:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 10.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a really good group of guys at one time, and over the years toward the end here, it’s not as good as it used to be it seems. It seems like there’s not as much pride in what you were doing as there used to be. That’s just me and my personal thing, but attitudes change. I was just thrilled to be part of this, and these guys it’s like, “It’s a job. Make sure I get my overtime in here on my sheet,” kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a great experience, and sounds like you’re going to have more with SOFIA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I like SOFIA too. I like the position I have there. Now I’m an engineering tech [technician], and what I do is troubleshoot the problems that they’re having on the plane, plus help all the younger guys understand the airplane. It’s kind of complicated, and I write the maintenance manual and a lot of different things. I have a good boss too. I couldn’t believe he let me go on this trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to get to move the Endeavour when she leaves to go to California [California Science Center, Los Angeles]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that. We’ll see how this one goes. I’m supposed to be doing my maintenance manual and doing this at the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you also helping with Enterprise [ferry trip from Washington, D.C. to the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum in New York City]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00407:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.6624074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we designed some space for it and weight for it. I’m not sure how much they violated the envelope. I know we did go over the life limit we had on the fuel cell. We were beyond any testing we’d ever done before. In fact, I remember Guy [Joseph G.] Thibodaux, who was the Propulsion Division chief, we argued one night and he said, “[unclear] What do you want me to do?” I said, “We don’t have anything better.” I said, “We've got to get up there in two weeks.” He said, “We can’t put another one in. We don’t have one.” So we flew it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, under these unusual circumstances—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we didn’t have any choice. It worked fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Apollo and Apollo-Soyuz and Skylab, these things are moving on, you’re getting ready for Shuttle, what was your first exposure to the Shuttle Program, your first duty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ALT program, Approach and Landing Test. There was sort of a dull spot in there between Mir, Mir was just sort of a stopgap for a week, but between the end of Skylab and ALT, I wasn’t that happy, because things weren’t happening. I wasn’t into working the Shuttle Program at the time. But when we started the ops part of it, then I started getting involved in it. ALT started, picked it up, and then we saw work in a lot of longer-duration sims and stuff like that and getting ready, putting a contingency plan out, all that kind of stuff that goes with that. In fact, at that time I think that we had layoffs at JSC. I think they were cutting people out at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the reduction-in-force thing, I guess they called it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00407:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.513786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we didn’t have any choice. It worked fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As Apollo and Apollo-Soyuz and Skylab, these things are moving on, you’re getting ready for Shuttle, what was your first exposure to the Shuttle Program, your first duty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ALT program, Approach and Landing Test. There was sort of a dull spot in there between Mir, Mir was just sort of a stopgap for a week, but between the end of Skylab and ALT, I wasn’t that happy, because things weren’t happening. I wasn’t into working the Shuttle Program at the time. But when we started the ops part of it, then I started getting involved in it. ALT started, picked it up, and then we saw work in a lot of longer-duration sims and stuff like that and getting ready, putting a contingency plan out, all that kind of stuff that goes with that. In fact, at that time I think that we had layoffs at JSC. I think they were cutting people out at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the reduction-in-force thing, I guess they called it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The RIFs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve spoken to us in pretty good depth about the Shuttle Program. Could you tell us a little bit about the types of things you’re doing now, what your current jobs are?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00266:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.967917287977123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really a participant in those, but a pretty active one. The U.S. Geological Survey people were commonly the ones, and the people at Johnson Space Center who were designated to be in charge of crew training at those times. So there would be the principal investigator of the field geology experiment, who would be Gordon Swann early on and Bill Muehlberger later—well, initially Gene Shoemaker, then Gordon Swann, then Bill Muehlberger. So between them and the people at Johnson Space Center, they had arranged for where are we going to go, and then they’d do all the logistical arrangements through their staffs, and then we’d just have a division of labor and go from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then when you got to the traverse and the service activities, were those areas that you also planned, did you plan those specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, on the field trips, you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I ranged everywhere from being CapCom person in the tents to—we each took turns doing things, like keeping track of the traverse, all the kinds of activities that we would do in mission control during the actual missions themselves. So, yes, we’d trade those around, depending on what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any input on who was the CapCom?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00266:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.297685875530135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, on the field trips, you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I ranged everywhere from being CapCom person in the tents to—we each took turns doing things, like keeping track of the traverse, all the kinds of activities that we would do in mission control during the actual missions themselves. So, yes, we’d trade those around, depending on what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any input on who was the CapCom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was selection totally by NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00266:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.65146404386436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was selection totally by NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Probably by the head of the astronaut corps and maybe whoever was head of the ASPO or something. I think it was—I’m not sure, I don’t actually know how it was done, but I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just curious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No, somewhere in there. They were uniformly good. I mean, Joe [Joseph P.] Allen was fantastic on Apollo 15. I mean, he’s such a great guy. He’s easy-going anyway. But, yes, they were excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was their role in this as well, that they knew the geo terms."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00266:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 41.834960048738175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Probably by the head of the astronaut corps and maybe whoever was head of the ASPO or something. I think it was—I’m not sure, I don’t actually know how it was done, but I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just curious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No, somewhere in there. They were uniformly good. I mean, Joe [Joseph P.] Allen was fantastic on Apollo 15. I mean, he’s such a great guy. He’s easy-going anyway. But, yes, they were excellent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was their role in this as well, that they knew the geo terms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, absolutely. That was really essential, yes. So they went on most of the field trips, if not all of them, and also participated in a variety of other training sessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point you trained, and you sent word. The management staff brought them down to, or encouraged them to come down to show them how you were working in the field and what use that was. Could you share with us how that happened, where you had some of these key individuals come down on the field trips?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00266:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 53.5481607186793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. From probably 12 on, in the support or the support-support room, yes. Not for Apollo 11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you for Apollo 11?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was home, basically. Yes, it was pretty amazing. Yes, because that was not a geology mission, per se. It was a really small group of people. It was just the core, total core there, and I hadn’t been in the thing that long at that point. Actually, the success of that really was what caused things to blossom on Apollo 12. They carried geological maps, and in Apollo 13, there was much more training and a lot more, and on and on it went. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much difference does the rover make in achieving the accomplishments from the science area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just orders of magnitude difference. You were traveling to a radius of seven kilometers. I have a plot, actually, that I made up which has all the traverses, including the Soviet Lunokhod traverses, all in the same scale. It just is incredible when you look at the difference between Apollo 11, 12, 14, and then the J missions, 15, 16, and 17. Just amazing. So you had to cover a lot more ground. You could see things in between. You could go to places you couldn’t get to otherwise. So you could go to two or three or four different major objectives and successfully investigate them. Yes, it was just a very, very fundamental delta in this system from a science return point of view. Plus, you also had twenty-one hours of surface EVA, which is—that’s a lot of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The geological findings, did they meet up to your expectations, or did you have expectations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.647892792115938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember if we had anybody from outside the agency. I think we did, maybe some retired people, one retired guy from JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California]. We had people from KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida], Tim Barth was at KSC. We had a number of people from JSC—some were here, some were still at JSC. We had Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California]. I don’t think we had anybody from Dryden [Flight Research Center, California], but we definitely had people from Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland]. Neil Dennehy, my deputy, was at Goddard. I think we had one person from Glenn [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio]. It was mostly NASA employees, mostly NESC employees, but we come from all Centers. We’re pretty well represented across the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you receive unsolicited help? Sometimes when word gets out that you’re working on something, people from outside the agency want to send you suggestions. Or was this pretty much a closed discussion within the people that you selected to be on that team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know that some of the Tech Fellows went out to their people, their technical discipline teams, and asked for advice, but those people never got into our meetings. I don’t know how extensive that was. I think it was so short-fused that there wasn’t a lot of time for people to give us unsolicited advice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you select these people, or did people give you names? How did you actually come up with the working group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Tech Fellows, there’s maybe 15 or 16 of them. I just got all the ones that were available. I think all of them were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would assume they were working on another project someplace, so they were able to stop what they were doing to work on this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.71988088012882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know that some of the Tech Fellows went out to their people, their technical discipline teams, and asked for advice, but those people never got into our meetings. I don’t know how extensive that was. I think it was so short-fused that there wasn’t a lot of time for people to give us unsolicited advice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you select these people, or did people give you names? How did you actually come up with the working group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Tech Fellows, there’s maybe 15 or 16 of them. I just got all the ones that were available. I think all of them were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would assume they were working on another project someplace, so they were able to stop what they were doing to work on this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Some of them came in for a while and had to step out for a little bit, but the majority of them spent most of their time with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of what you did is your recommendations for the guidelines. As you mentioned, you included aspects from the behavioral health and the medical doctors. Were they involved in these discussions or were you using inputs they had given to you previously?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.99985293843064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, pretty much. Some of them came in for a while and had to step out for a little bit, but the majority of them spent most of their time with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Part of what you did is your recommendations for the guidelines. As you mentioned, you included aspects from the behavioral health and the medical doctors. Were they involved in these discussions or were you using inputs they had given to you previously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One or two of them was involved initially. I knew they wanted specific things. We had talked about it at the mine site, and we had talked about it at the airport before we came home. Some of the things that they wanted for medical reasons were the same kind of things that we wanted for engineering reasons. For example, we wanted lighting in the thing so that the individual had situational awareness. In case the thing got stuck we’d be able, or the Chileans would be able, to talk to the guy and, him being right there, to figure out what was wrong. On the other hand, the doctors wanted lighting for morale purposes. The doctors, psychologists wanted to keep the guys’ spirits up. We wanted two-way communications, again, to help out if there’s any issues on the capsule coming up. They wanted it so that they could talk to the individual in case he was experiencing some kind of medical issue.\\n\\n I think we got everything the doctors wanted. After I got done with it, J.D. Polk and I talked for quite some time about the paper, and I think he was good with everything that we had put in there. Somehow I got all their inputs and some of the other inputs they had. You’ll see in this paper that we’ve listed if the requirement had anything to do with medical. They wanted to have some oxygen onboard in case the air coming up was bad in the borehole. I think we got everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s so many unknowns. Were you still working on the premise that it could be anywhere from an hour to four hours to get them out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, that changed drastically as they moved along."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.691667832530002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since 2003, you’ve had an opportunity to see, as you just mentioned, how these people come together. Did you find anything different with this group of challenges? It was so different in the sense that you weren’t dealing with “normal” NASA, that the NESC steps out and helps industry when it needs to. So did you approach it differently, or is it the same as you have done in the past?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose I approached it somewhat similar to the way I’ve tackled problems here at the NESC before. I’d never been involved in mining in my life, but in my talks with the Chilean navy people, they hadn’t been there either. Once we understood what the mining guys were going to provide us, which was like a 26-inch borehole that went down a half mile, it became just really an engineering problem to figure out how we were going to extract them. So with all that background it was sort of out of the ordinary, but then again it wasn’t because it was an engineering problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I find interesting because you went down as a possible assistant to the medical folks, yet engineering took such a step forward in helping solve this problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was fortuitous. We were looking to help out in any way we could, and this is one way that I thought NASA could help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about the team dynamics of you working closely with the other three members of the team. We just talked about how you came back and worked with engineers, but had you worked with J.D. or Al or Mike before?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.546297591700002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose I approached it somewhat similar to the way I’ve tackled problems here at the NESC before. I’d never been involved in mining in my life, but in my talks with the Chilean navy people, they hadn’t been there either. Once we understood what the mining guys were going to provide us, which was like a 26-inch borehole that went down a half mile, it became just really an engineering problem to figure out how we were going to extract them. So with all that background it was sort of out of the ordinary, but then again it wasn’t because it was an engineering problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which I find interesting because you went down as a possible assistant to the medical folks, yet engineering took such a step forward in helping solve this problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was fortuitous. We were looking to help out in any way we could, and this is one way that I thought NASA could help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about the team dynamics of you working closely with the other three members of the team. We just talked about how you came back and worked with engineers, but had you worked with J.D. or Al or Mike before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, didn’t know them. It was the first time I met them, and I thought we got along very well from the start. We were all fish out of water, so to speak; none of us had ever done something like this before. I think all of us were trying our hardest to be able to help the Chileans and give them something that they could use based on our experiences. So we were really supporting each other, I think, and really put our nose to the grindstone when we were down there. I got along with them real well, and now we’re best friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hear you have a team name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.495886213000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was fortuitous. We were looking to help out in any way we could, and this is one way that I thought NASA could help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about the team dynamics of you working closely with the other three members of the team. We just talked about how you came back and worked with engineers, but had you worked with J.D. or Al or Mike before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, didn’t know them. It was the first time I met them, and I thought we got along very well from the start. We were all fish out of water, so to speak; none of us had ever done something like this before. I think all of us were trying our hardest to be able to help the Chileans and give them something that they could use based on our experiences. So we were really supporting each other, I think, and really put our nose to the grindstone when we were down there. I got along with them real well, and now we’re best friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hear you have a team name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said about two weeks after you submitted the paper you heard back. What became of your involvement after that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.439873570000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, didn’t know them. It was the first time I met them, and I thought we got along very well from the start. We were all fish out of water, so to speak; none of us had ever done something like this before. I think all of us were trying our hardest to be able to help the Chileans and give them something that they could use based on our experiences. So we were really supporting each other, I think, and really put our nose to the grindstone when we were down there. I got along with them real well, and now we’re best friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hear you have a team name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said about two weeks after you submitted the paper you heard back. What became of your involvement after that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much at all. I’d heard maybe once again from the doctor, and I’ve had a number of correspondences with the navy submarine captain, but really outside this issue just kind of friendly banter. We weren’t asked anything else, and I don’t know how much the others were asked either. I don’t fault the Chileans, I think they did exactly as I would have done it. They asked for help, we gave them our advice, they took the advice and ran with it. Then, as the time came for the rescue, it was a Chilean show. And it really needed to be, I think, a Chilean show. They did the majority of the work, they really kept those guys alive, so I don’t fault them for that. After we had given them our suggestions, they didn’t come back, at least too much. I know that J.D. had talked to the naval doctor maybe a couple times about some other issues, but I don’t think it was very extensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This engineering contribution had an urgency because you had human lives at stake. How did that impact the discussions when you were trying to work within that one-week deadline?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.577330000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We obviously knew we wanted to make this thing strong, and we also wanted, again, to get them something, because it would really be bad if they finished the borehole first and this capsule wasn’t ready. Some of the brighter—well, they’re all bright—Tech Fellows relied heavily on this document called “Personnel Lifting Standards.” It’s the documentation that provides for how to build elevators and things like that. I’m conjecturing here, but there’s specific factors of safety that are involved, so we treated this capsule like that and drew upon these already accepted guidelines in the United States for building a structure that was going to lift people. We were well aware that we were dealing with the safety of these people and we wanted to make sure that this thing did not fail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were here in the States living your normal day-to-day duties whenever you were watching the rescue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to share with your team that the Chilean government had accepted many of your guidelines, you were able to get that feedback back to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that there is a possibility that the four of you will be returning to Chile. What are your expectations or what would you like to accomplish going back to the site?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.863700000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to share with your team that the Chilean government had accepted many of your guidelines, you were able to get that feedback back to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that there is a possibility that the four of you will be returning to Chile. What are your expectations or what would you like to accomplish going back to the site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’d like to garner some lessons learned. Maybe NASA could help out in a situation like this in the future. This particular case was, in my understanding, an unprecedented event. The Chileans were really writing the book on this, how to save some people from a half mile down in this type of conditions. For NASA to come down and help, I think really shows the strength of our agency, but if we could somehow figure out how to codify this a little better, maybe in the future if we get asked to help out with some other issue we would be better prepared. This one was pretty much ad hoc, as I understand it. I’d like to get that out of it. I’d like to see how things went with the suggestions that we made and if there were any other issues where we could have helped more, or didn’t help enough. I think lessons learned, we could get quite a bit of good info. The doctors also would hopefully get some information that would help their studies in long-term survival in austere environments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like, just from this process of going down on the site survey and then coming back and putting this tiger team together, you have lessons learned from that that you’ll be able to apply for another situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.293000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that there is a possibility that the four of you will be returning to Chile. What are your expectations or what would you like to accomplish going back to the site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’d like to garner some lessons learned. Maybe NASA could help out in a situation like this in the future. This particular case was, in my understanding, an unprecedented event. The Chileans were really writing the book on this, how to save some people from a half mile down in this type of conditions. For NASA to come down and help, I think really shows the strength of our agency, but if we could somehow figure out how to codify this a little better, maybe in the future if we get asked to help out with some other issue we would be better prepared. This one was pretty much ad hoc, as I understand it. I’d like to get that out of it. I’d like to see how things went with the suggestions that we made and if there were any other issues where we could have helped more, or didn’t help enough. I think lessons learned, we could get quite a bit of good info. The doctors also would hopefully get some information that would help their studies in long-term survival in austere environments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like, just from this process of going down on the site survey and then coming back and putting this tiger team together, you have lessons learned from that that you’ll be able to apply for another situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. I think the lessons learned that I’ll take back is that you can get NASA engineers to do pretty much anything. Having that team here and ready to go as soon as we came back into work after Labor Day was really key to the success, and the fact that they were all charged up and ready to work helped too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a leadership lesson, do you have something you can share on how you were able to work through some of those heated discussions? Can you give us an example? For instance, maybe one of the discussions that you had to settle, how did you come to the conclusion of what to put in that list of guidelines?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00910:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is one of those trips where you work all day and then we got invited out to dinner, and being a Latin country or like a European country, they all eat late. A lady who worked for the minister of economics in the region had us all over for dinner at her house. It was very nice, she was very gracious. We got back to the hotel late, got up early and went back to work. Then the third night we got invited over to the doctor’s house. We didn’t get there until 11 p.m., and the next morning was an early flight. So we did get to socialize a little bit. Then the last day we flew back from Copiapó and we had five or six hours in Santiago. I was told the minister of health got us a tour guide to give us a windshield tour of Santiago. I thought that was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a nice gesture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ask the doctors. All the doctors fell asleep, but I was very interested, so I stayed awake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to end with your thoughts of what you felt personally of your involvement as you watched the miners being able to reach the surface, knowing that some of the work that you had done had helped ensure their rescue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you may expect I was concerned about that, but I was very, very relieved when things started going as well as they did. It just seemed that the capsule—and again, I didn’t design it, I didn’t build it, we just provided suggestions—but I thought that the way they had built it, it was performing pretty flawlessly. So I was pretty happy about that. Very relieved, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad it worked out well for everyone. Thank you for this morning. You gave us some great information, and I appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00001:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.027358878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In terms of the emails that they claimed were deleted and lost?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That was going on when I got here, and there had been claims that emails have been destroyed by the White House during the Bush administration. And again, I'm not Mr. Technology, but essentially, as it was explained to me was that it pretty much was how those emails were stored, and where they were stored, and what buckets they were in, and so forth. There was a resolution of that with the reconstructing of those lost emails from where they were found, and that was all done, litigation on that was resolved. And so, I think that was kind of symptomatic of coming into this new age of, how best do you preserve these, and how do you store them, how do you access them. I think a learning thing for the White House and for us, but at the end of the day, we have them, and we have a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any stories that surround that incident, or other controversies in your ten years, or a little bit less?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I'm trying to think. No more around that. I mean, that was pretty straightforward, frankly, of the people who have much more knowledge trying to sort out exactly where those emails had ended up, right? And then, going through with Gary Stern. We worked a lot with NARA's general counsel. I've known Gary for many, many years, and Chris Runkel has been one of my closest friends, and a great adviser. Working with those folks and their staff to try to figure all that out with the technology people. So, no other really big things around that. I'm trying to think of other controversies. Gosh, I hate to act like I'm controversy-free. That's boring. Nothing big, in terms of actual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the reason why I say that is because Bush's eight years could be considered controversial by many."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00001:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 36.69706542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That was going on when I got here, and there had been claims that emails have been destroyed by the White House during the Bush administration. And again, I'm not Mr. Technology, but essentially, as it was explained to me was that it pretty much was how those emails were stored, and where they were stored, and what buckets they were in, and so forth. There was a resolution of that with the reconstructing of those lost emails from where they were found, and that was all done, litigation on that was resolved. And so, I think that was kind of symptomatic of coming into this new age of, how best do you preserve these, and how do you store them, how do you access them. I think a learning thing for the White House and for us, but at the end of the day, we have them, and we have a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any stories that surround that incident, or other controversies in your ten years, or a little bit less?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I'm trying to think. No more around that. I mean, that was pretty straightforward, frankly, of the people who have much more knowledge trying to sort out exactly where those emails had ended up, right? And then, going through with Gary Stern. We worked a lot with NARA's general counsel. I've known Gary for many, many years, and Chris Runkel has been one of my closest friends, and a great adviser. Working with those folks and their staff to try to figure all that out with the technology people. So, no other really big things around that. I'm trying to think of other controversies. Gosh, I hate to act like I'm controversy-free. That's boring. Nothing big, in terms of actual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the reason why I say that is because Bush's eight years could be considered controversial by many."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot has happened. I was just wondering if any of that has transferred over into the library?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 43.521651898142856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Florida, in Gainesville. Grew up there, went to school there, went to college there. Not to bore you with any details about all that, but I did major in accounting. While I was in school I was teaching diving and got into a technical type of diving while I was there. Several years after I graduated, an opportunity came up to come down here and interview for a job because of contacts that I’d made in the diving world. I liked diving a lot better than I did accounting. I never intended to be here longer than a few years, and that was 31 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about your first jobs when you got here and some of the first missions that you worked on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was hired as a lead diver. That was my primary job, but like everybody else over here we did multiple jobs. My responsibility was to lead teams of divers, particularly during the Shuttle missions. That was what we did 90% of the time. Then when we came back from the Shuttle missions I would work disassembly shifts to take apart the boosters until they were done. After that was completed, then we would do preventive maintenance on the dive gear, what we call the GSE, the government-supplied equipment, the retrieval equipment that we use during the missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the first Shuttle mission that you worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-3."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were a lot of the procedures already in place when you first got here? Or did you help develop some of the procedures and processes that you used on the very last mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 44.42309098873224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Ambar boats are a hard-bottomed boat, but they also have an inflatable RIB [rigid inflatable boat] on them. We [have] a davit that you [can] use to launch that boat with the equipment and with some people in it. You can’t launch it with the whole crew in the boat, so the biggest help was being able to launch these boats with the gear in them.\\n\\n Before, we would have to come back beside the ship, hand up these heavy double tanks from the small boat into the ship, and all the other gear, and then bring the boat aboard. At least now we could leave all the gear in the boat. The tanks and the regulators and the cameras and the toolboxes and everything else, just bring it onto the boat. That helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What brought that change? Was it feedback from the crews to the management? Or was there a safety issue? Was there a diver that was endangered and therefore it brought that change about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was not a specific instance that caused that to happen. There was a general knowledge that it was always a problem transferring the gear and the equipment from the ship to the small boat. At the time that we started this operation, these Ambar boats were not available, to the best of my knowledge. We went from Zodiacs, which had no hard bottom at all, when I came here, to these Avon boats, British boats that had a fiberglass bottom but a bigger sponson, the inflatable part. You could launch these boats, but not really with the gear in them. There just wasn’t the room, no places to put it.\\n\\n The Ambars gave us the ability to put tanks and regulators and boxes and oxygen resuscitators and everything in the boat, and lash it all down. We could even launch people in these boats; you just couldn’t launch everybody in them usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were here for STS-4."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lost the boosters, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us the end of that mission? What did you bring back after?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 46.20134689966944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We lost the boosters, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us the end of that mission? What did you bring back after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We brought the frustums back. It was my second mission, in [June 1982]. The ocean was like glass. Every launch we would seem to lose some parachutes. The boosters would hit the water, the parachutes had some type of pyrotechnic on top, and the feet would blow off when they’d hit the water, just before it hit the water, or at splashdown. All of the floats were up in the apex of the parachutes, and for some reason we kept losing one or two chutes on these launches. So they decided instead of blowing all the legs off, to blow every other leg off. That would leave one leg of the parachutes attached to the booster.\\n\\n But what happened was the booster sensed splashdown thousands of feet up, so the chutes are maybe not even totally dereefed. Every other leg blows off, and then the chutes streamer. They hit, they broke apart, and they sank. The frustums were there. We got there, and there’s no boosters. There was just nothing. We were there several hours. I remember I jumped in the water, I think I was probably the only one to dive. I jumped off the back of the Freedom [Star] with a scooter and went down to about 70 feet. There was this big black cloud, but there was nothing. We determined pretty quickly that they sank. Then I spent a great part of my summer out at sea that year, because we went out there with ROVs [remotely operated vehicles] and hunted for them till we found them and took a lot of pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the pictures given to people for assessment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than Challenger, was there another time that you came back with a lighter load than you expected when you went out for retrieval?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 38.50637205585278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t, because you’re bringing up debris. Fortunately for us, we didn’t work on the crew cabin at all. Whoever was in charge decided that the Navy boat out there would do that. They parked on top of it and they did it all, so we were left looking for satellites and other stuff, which was better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are some of the other missions that you’ve gone on with the ships that were a little bit unique? Did you go out on the treasure hunt?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t on it. I guess at a period of time between launches, there was a group—I believe it was the ship the America, maybe—that had a considerable amount of treasure on board. A group had put together a plan and had an area staked out. You can get some type of a permit or claim, and they were working that when another group came along and decided well just in case they would hunt in the area near there. So the Liberty went out with them, and they pulled a towed array around but the first group found it. I think it was up off of North Carolina or someplace like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bit odd in the history of the ships. You did some work with NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did quite a bit of work with NOAA. Not all of it diving, but diving-wise we did one expedition to a place called the Flower Gardens, which being from Texas you should know about because it’s not far off of Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Closer to Galveston [Island]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.895968950947534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t on it. I guess at a period of time between launches, there was a group—I believe it was the ship the America, maybe—that had a considerable amount of treasure on board. A group had put together a plan and had an area staked out. You can get some type of a permit or claim, and they were working that when another group came along and decided well just in case they would hunt in the area near there. So the Liberty went out with them, and they pulled a towed array around but the first group found it. I think it was up off of North Carolina or someplace like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A bit odd in the history of the ships. You did some work with NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did quite a bit of work with NOAA. Not all of it diving, but diving-wise we did one expedition to a place called the Flower Gardens, which being from Texas you should know about because it’s not far off of Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Closer to Galveston [Island]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Galveston, yes. It’s an absolutely fabulous place. We were out there for maybe a week to ten days doing scientific work for NOAA, diving every day. It’s beautiful. The tops of these salt domes come up to about 100 feet of water and come out of about 400, 500 feet of water. They’re very very similar-looking to the [Florida] Keys. Some fish that we have in the Keys like yellowtail snapper don’t exist there at all, but a lot of the other stuff does. The most magnificent plate coral I’ve ever seen, and crystal clear water, just crystal clear, with oil wells around. Really interesting, something you don’t see in Florida.\\n\\n Then we’ve done quite a bit of work with NOAA at Aquarius, the undersea laboratory that’s off of Key Largo [Florida]. One of the most interesting things I’ve ever done here was I had the opportunity to saturate at Aquarius for five days prior to one of the other missions, and that was very different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 34.328854389941704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did quite a bit of work with NOAA. Not all of it diving, but diving-wise we did one expedition to a place called the Flower Gardens, which being from Texas you should know about because it’s not far off of Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Closer to Galveston [Island]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Galveston, yes. It’s an absolutely fabulous place. We were out there for maybe a week to ten days doing scientific work for NOAA, diving every day. It’s beautiful. The tops of these salt domes come up to about 100 feet of water and come out of about 400, 500 feet of water. They’re very very similar-looking to the [Florida] Keys. Some fish that we have in the Keys like yellowtail snapper don’t exist there at all, but a lot of the other stuff does. The most magnificent plate coral I’ve ever seen, and crystal clear water, just crystal clear, with oil wells around. Really interesting, something you don’t see in Florida.\\n\\n Then we’ve done quite a bit of work with NOAA at Aquarius, the undersea laboratory that’s off of Key Largo [Florida]. One of the most interesting things I’ve ever done here was I had the opportunity to saturate at Aquarius for five days prior to one of the other missions, and that was very different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In other words, I was able to go live in the habitat for five days underwater, and we were setting everything up for a 14-day mission. We were running cables and com [communication] lines and putting down little outposts and things for a week. That was very different. Since then we’ve supported quite a few scientific missions down there, one NEEMO [NASA Extreme Environment Mission Operations] mission. Hopefully we’ll do another one this June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the value of working with those types of operations, for your group as well as the contracting group?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 37.938086052716486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was ’86 or ’87. It was right after Challenger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jennifer, do you have any questions that you can think of?\n\nI was trying to think of something personal. I’m wondering, do you have any amusing or funny stories about any retrievals that you can share with us?\n\nAnything memorable. You talked about the bad weather conditions, but were there other times? Or are there any traditions that you guys do when you’re coming back in or going out for a mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, most of the guys are pretty sullen when they’re going out and it’s bad. Morale is low. When you head out through the port and the palm trees are turned inside out, morale plummets, but the morale improves when they’re heading back on the way in. I guess there’s been lots of funny things. Occasionally we would do crazy things like we’d be on a training mission and we’d take a whole carton of eggs, and then we’d fly by the other ship’s small boat and just plaster them with eggs, just for the heck of it. Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little rivalry between the two of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, sometimes you just turn into kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a downside part of your job? So much of what you do is enjoyable, because you enjoy the diving part, but is there—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.058576697270002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody who dives. If you’re going to be on the active dive list, you have to pass this fitness test every 90 days. We still have some guys that are current and uncurrent, current and uncurrent. There’s still a few that are having issues. They’ll go for three or four months, you don’t ever see them in the gym. Then they fail the test and then you see them over there every day. They still don’t like to work out that much, but they want to dive enough to get it done. So that’s funny, but it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the most, how many active divers did you have at your peak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Between 30 and 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now how many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, 14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of the people who are still here are part of your active dive team, give or take?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.176196330300002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Between 30 and 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now how many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, 14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of the people who are still here are part of your active dive team, give or take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they’re all active right now. Most of the divers are what you would call part-time divers. Most of them always were. I never had more than, say, four full-time divers that that was their primary job. And even those guys were all seconded off to other areas. They all worked disassembly. They all would go down and work on the ships if need be. There never was enough diving in this job to be able to hire someone just as divers and just have that the only thing they did.\\n\\n All of the people that were involved in retrieval did various jobs. You had to be able to move from one area to another. I had engineers that would be heading up jobs here that would wind up on the deck of the ship taking orders from the lowest tech or the lowliest seaman that we have. That’s the way it’s been since I’ve been here. If you didn’t fit in with that type of environment, it wasn’t going to work for you. You had to be able to give orders and take orders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent many years with John [C.] Fischbeck. We had an opportunity to talk with him for a few minutes, and he told us about a time he was on watch. He noticed in the depths of the water while some of your crew members were out swimming that he saw sharks. Can you share with us some of the dangers of sharks in what you do for a living?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.12047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the SWARs. Getting the parachutes disconnected in any kind of manner other than us having to do it by hand, that was very important. Way more important than getting anything color-coded. That helped a lot and made the job a lot easier and safer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big were the floats?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We changed over the years. Originally we were using these Oslo floats. I’m sure you’ve seen them. They’re big red balls. You probably see them with the smaller boats out here. They use them all the time. They’re about this big around [demonstrates]. The bigger ones, they’re called Oslo 80s. I don’t know exactly what the diameter is, but they’re the larger ones that they make. We were putting four of those on each parachute. It took at least two of them to float a chute. Later we started using ships’ fenders, the big white torpedo looking things. They’re that big around [demonstrates] and three or four feet long. They come in varying sizes. We would put two of those on each chute, one on each leg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the trip out were these housed on the back of the boat, or were they inside the ship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The floats stayed up on the bow. We used them as fenders and as floats for the parachutes, so they served a dual purpose. They’re much bigger than the Oslo floats, so you didn’t have to use as many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get those in the water—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We changed over the years. Originally we were using these Oslo floats. I’m sure you’ve seen them. They’re big red balls. You probably see them with the smaller boats out here. They use them all the time. They’re about this big around [demonstrates]. The bigger ones, they’re called Oslo 80s. I don’t know exactly what the diameter is, but they’re the larger ones that they make. We were putting four of those on each parachute. It took at least two of them to float a chute. Later we started using ships’ fenders, the big white torpedo looking things. They’re that big around [demonstrates] and three or four feet long. They come in varying sizes. We would put two of those on each chute, one on each leg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the trip out were these housed on the back of the boat, or were they inside the ship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The floats stayed up on the bow. We used them as fenders and as floats for the parachutes, so they served a dual purpose. They’re much bigger than the Oslo floats, so you didn’t have to use as many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get those in the water—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d drag them over. Too big to put in the boat, so we would throw them in the water and drag them over. You had the lines already made up to them, then you would just dive down and tie them in place. It worked out pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the seatbelt cutters. Were there other unique tools that you used for your job? You talked to us about the DOP."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00700:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The floats stayed up on the bow. We used them as fenders and as floats for the parachutes, so they served a dual purpose. They’re much bigger than the Oslo floats, so you didn’t have to use as many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get those in the water—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d drag them over. Too big to put in the boat, so we would throw them in the water and drag them over. You had the lines already made up to them, then you would just dive down and tie them in place. It worked out pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the seatbelt cutters. Were there other unique tools that you used for your job? You talked to us about the DOP."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to put lights on the booster. When you’re towing something, you have to put a light on it. If you have a barge that’s being towed from a tugboat at sea, it has to have a bow and a stern light. So we used magnetic lights for the front, and we’d basically stick it on during the retrieval process, just go up to it in the boat and throw it on there. Then we had another light that we would actually put on at depth. We would put it where the hold-down posts are on the booster, those leave four holes. We would put what we called a DIPP in there, which stands for diver-inserted post plug. It was basically a plug you could put in that hole. By turning it you expanded the plug, and it would hold anything. We used it to put an eye in there that we could put a cable on, or we used it for the stinger that we made up later, and we had a light that we’d put in there.\\n\\n Of course you had to train the divers to put it in the right hole, because on the towback at least one of those holes is completely underwater. So occasionally the divers would put it in the wrong DIPP hole and the light would be underwater. Did John talk to you at all about the dewatering process?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little bit, but you can share with us if you’d like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.244183005529365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that would be '63 and I would have been starting my fifth year in architecture at the University of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana. So my last year of school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you've been in college then five years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, that would be been my fifth year straight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where had you grown up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Chicago, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went to high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 23.758250624110325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Chicago, Illinois."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Went to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to high school at Austin High School. I grew up in the west side of Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Brothers, sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Only child, which is the source of many of my problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We may get into some of those. And during your high school years, did you study a foreign language? Did you do any travel, any volunteer work in summers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.842500693455914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to high school at Austin High School. I grew up in the west side of Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Brothers, sisters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Only child, which is the source of many of my problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We may get into some of those. And during your high school years, did you study a foreign language? Did you do any travel, any volunteer work in summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I studied Spanish in high school. I think that was probably the most common language that everybody studied. Not that it did me much good, but I studied it and I got good grades. I guess I did some volunteer work I'm trying to remember. Or did I? I was involved in some community activities, Jewish community activities, Jewish Community Center, track stuff. Traveling, to that point, not really. I go back a little bit. My mother's a whole other interesting story. My mother's sister in 1945 or 6 had married a Russian Jew who had immigrated to Cuba in the thirties, I believe. And they met here and they got married and they moved to Havana, back to Havana, where he had a business. And so as I was growing up for, from when I was about four or so until I was about 11, we would go visit them every year. They'd take me out of school at Christmas time. Instead of two weeks, I'd be gone four or five weeks or whatever. And so we'd go, you know, spend time with my aunt and uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the visits, did you have a chance to speak English or Yiddish or Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.385803325254214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I studied Spanish in high school. I think that was probably the most common language that everybody studied. Not that it did me much good, but I studied it and I got good grades. I guess I did some volunteer work I'm trying to remember. Or did I? I was involved in some community activities, Jewish community activities, Jewish Community Center, track stuff. Traveling, to that point, not really. I go back a little bit. My mother's a whole other interesting story. My mother's sister in 1945 or 6 had married a Russian Jew who had immigrated to Cuba in the thirties, I believe. And they met here and they got married and they moved to Havana, back to Havana, where he had a business. And so as I was growing up for, from when I was about four or so until I was about 11, we would go visit them every year. They'd take me out of school at Christmas time. Instead of two weeks, I'd be gone four or five weeks or whatever. And so we'd go, you know, spend time with my aunt and uncle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the visits, did you have a chance to speak English or Yiddish or Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't understand much of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I guess I got acclimated to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were in the Spanish speaking environment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.873114805838016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't understand much of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I guess I got acclimated to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were in the Spanish speaking environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Spanish speaking environment, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you're finishing high school, what was your goal at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.303460895375574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I guess I got acclimated to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were in the Spanish speaking environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Spanish speaking environment, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you're finishing high school, what was your goal at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that goal, I had decided I wanted to study architecture, and so I went to Champaign-Urbana and enrolled in. And I got a kick out of it because these days it sounds like there's such competition to get into state universities. I mean, back when I went to school in '59, it was, oh, you want to come to the University of Illinois? Fine. When can we expect you? And so it wasn't, it was not a problem at all to get into universities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it that led you to architecture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.189457895525399, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that goal, I had decided I wanted to study architecture, and so I went to Champaign-Urbana and enrolled in. And I got a kick out of it because these days it sounds like there's such competition to get into state universities. I mean, back when I went to school in '59, it was, oh, you want to come to the University of Illinois? Fine. When can we expect you? And so it wasn't, it was not a problem at all to get into universities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it that led you to architecture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought I wanted to start study engineering. I just, I'm not exactly sure why, but I just kind of felt that way. You know, I had an erector set when I was a kid and a Lionel train and Lincoln logs and all of those things. And I went to Austin High School, which at that time was one of the three or four public high schools in the city of Chicago that had a technical education component."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was there was mechanical drafting, there was architectural drawing. They had shops and foundries and the whole nine yards. And so I, in addition to taking a general college prep curriculum, I also took shop and mechanical drawing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you applied to school and were admitted."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.766064328361553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought I wanted to start study engineering. I just, I'm not exactly sure why, but I just kind of felt that way. You know, I had an erector set when I was a kid and a Lionel train and Lincoln logs and all of those things. And I went to Austin High School, which at that time was one of the three or four public high schools in the city of Chicago that had a technical education component."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was there was mechanical drafting, there was architectural drawing. They had shops and foundries and the whole nine yards. And so I, in addition to taking a general college prep curriculum, I also took shop and mechanical drawing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you applied to school and were admitted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So now you were doing essentially an engineering curriculum or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.517849253735058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was there was mechanical drafting, there was architectural drawing. They had shops and foundries and the whole nine yards. And so I, in addition to taking a general college prep curriculum, I also took shop and mechanical drawing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you applied to school and were admitted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So now you were doing essentially an engineering curriculum or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was doing architecture. I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the get-go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.353165837483395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So now you were doing essentially an engineering curriculum or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was doing architecture. I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the get-go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the get-go. Yeah, I just I had decided that engineering probably wasn't going to be for me. I had gotten involved in some architectural drawing classes in high school and I liked that a lot. And then when I went down to Champaign, I actually enrolled in architectural engineering. And that lasted for two years, and then I switched over to the straight architectural curriculum, aiming toward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would it still be five years to the market?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.39240648609266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was doing architecture. I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the get-go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the get-go. Yeah, I just I had decided that engineering probably wasn't going to be for me. I had gotten involved in some architectural drawing classes in high school and I liked that a lot. And then when I went down to Champaign, I actually enrolled in architectural engineering. And that lasted for two years, and then I switched over to the straight architectural curriculum, aiming toward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would it still be five years to the market?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, it's still five years, but it would be a BA instead of a BS. That was the only difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And again, during your college years, travel and any volunteer work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.547118317880734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the get-go. Yeah, I just I had decided that engineering probably wasn't going to be for me. I had gotten involved in some architectural drawing classes in high school and I liked that a lot. And then when I went down to Champaign, I actually enrolled in architectural engineering. And that lasted for two years, and then I switched over to the straight architectural curriculum, aiming toward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would it still be five years to the market?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, it's still five years, but it would be a BA instead of a BS. That was the only difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And again, during your college years, travel and any volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing. Well, you know, I'm just trying to remember that in school, I mean, summer jobs. I had summer jobs as a camp counselor. Then I eventually had summer jobs in architectural offices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue language studies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 18.385687019867483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, it's still five years, but it would be a BA instead of a BS. That was the only difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And again, during your college years, travel and any volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, nothing. Well, you know, I'm just trying to remember that in school, I mean, summer jobs. I had summer jobs as a camp counselor. Then I eventually had summer jobs in architectural offices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you continue language studies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not in college. I didn't. I didn't take any language in college. It wasn't a requirement in the architectural or engineering program to take a language. But what I did miss though, in which I subsequently made up in an MA program, they missed all the things that you didn't have time to take when you were doing a technical curriculum. Because, I mean, from the get-go, I had 16 hours a semester. And it was like going to school, you know, 8:30 to 4:00 or 5:00 every day, practically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you remember when you first heard about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.883564222058621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not in college. I didn't. I didn't take any language in college. It wasn't a requirement in the architectural or engineering program to take a language. But what I did miss though, in which I subsequently made up in an MA program, they missed all the things that you didn't have time to take when you were doing a technical curriculum. Because, I mean, from the get-go, I had 16 hours a semester. And it was like going to school, you know, 8:30 to 4:00 or 5:00 every day, practically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you remember when you first heard about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I do. It was. I started college, because Chicago at that time had, you could start school in either September or February. And I had started in February because that's when my birthday was. And so my first semester of my fifth year was February to May. Must have been, you know, it was '63. And so my second semester was going to be following the summer to the following February, and it was one of those really lovely spring days, kind of like today is. And it was late in the semester and I was walking through the Quad in Champaign from, I think, from the union back towards, I don't know if I was going home or where. I walked by one of the buildings. And there was a sign outside that said, Peace Corps recruiters or, you know, something like that. And I said, I don't know if I even heard of the Peace Corps at that point. And I don't know what the sign said, but it enticed me to go in. And, you know, I found out about it and I said, well, it sounds interesting. So I sat down and took the test right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were actually giving the test. So I don't remember if I came back and took it or if I took it right there, it seems to me I just took it right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be. Now this is in your last year of school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.648404691176245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I do. It was. I started college, because Chicago at that time had, you could start school in either September or February. And I had started in February because that's when my birthday was. And so my first semester of my fifth year was February to May. Must have been, you know, it was '63. And so my second semester was going to be following the summer to the following February, and it was one of those really lovely spring days, kind of like today is. And it was late in the semester and I was walking through the Quad in Champaign from, I think, from the union back towards, I don't know if I was going home or where. I walked by one of the buildings. And there was a sign outside that said, Peace Corps recruiters or, you know, something like that. And I said, I don't know if I even heard of the Peace Corps at that point. And I don't know what the sign said, but it enticed me to go in. And, you know, I found out about it and I said, well, it sounds interesting. So I sat down and took the test right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were actually giving the test. So I don't remember if I came back and took it or if I took it right there, it seems to me I just took it right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could be. Now this is in your last year of school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my last year. My last year of school, my second to last semester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you took the test at the same time, you must have filled out the application. Do you recall that? One of the things in the app, a couple of them. One, they ask if you have a preference for area assignments. And two, they may ask also if you have any, feel you have any confidence in the foreign language. Do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.44247492737808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my last year. My last year of school, my second to last semester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you took the test at the same time, you must have filled out the application. Do you recall that? One of the things in the app, a couple of them. One, they ask if you have a preference for area assignments. And two, they may ask also if you have any, feel you have any confidence in the foreign language. Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the area. If I answered it, I have no idea how I answered it. And then I remember there was kind of a foreign language competency component to the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of a nonsense skipping syllables or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was actually Urdu."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.380527697086757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the area. If I answered it, I have no idea how I answered it. And then I remember there was kind of a foreign language competency component to the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was kind of a nonsense skipping syllables or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was actually Urdu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that what it was? Oh, now I know 40 years later. So, you know, I took it and they're saying goodbye, whatever, you'll hear from us in whatever and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away from graduation are you at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.790774934675007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was that what it was? Oh, now I know 40 years later. So, you know, I took it and they're saying goodbye, whatever, you'll hear from us in whatever and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away from graduation are you at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's the summer and then another semester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's the June, July. June, July, August and September to January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, had you begun thinking about what you were going to do when you got your degree?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.323083260750007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it's the summer and then another semester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's the June, July. June, July, August and September to January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, had you begun thinking about what you were going to do when you got your degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I didn't know. I was sort of like, you know, where am I going to get a job or am I going to work? What kind of an office do I want to look at, big office, small office, you know? And I really, really didn't know what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In '63, '64, was the draft an issue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.914536956388896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's the June, July. June, July, August and September to January."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, had you begun thinking about what you were going to do when you got your degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I didn't know. I was sort of like, you know, where am I going to get a job or am I going to work? What kind of an office do I want to look at, big office, small office, you know? And I really, really didn't know what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In '63, '64, was the draft an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The draft was an issue, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been getting deferments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.571707729320996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I didn't know. I was sort of like, you know, where am I going to get a job or am I going to work? What kind of an office do I want to look at, big office, small office, you know? And I really, really didn't know what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In '63, '64, was the draft an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The draft was an issue, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been getting deferments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd been getting deferments for school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point when you applied, did you mention it to your family and your friends, you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.301897477023328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The draft was an issue, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been getting deferments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd been getting deferments for school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point when you applied, did you mention it to your family and your friends, you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't remember. I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So take the next step."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.890997196692586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd been getting deferments for school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the point when you applied, did you mention it to your family and your friends, you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't remember. I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So take the next step."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so the next step, you know, I go to work during the summer. I come back to school in the fall. I don't remember if it was during the summer or during the fall, but I got a letter from Peace Corps. And it said, thank you for taking the test. We know you did it. Oh, we're so sorry, we've lost it. If you're interested, would you, you know, reapply in the application and you know. I'm thinking, oh god, what a crummy organization this is. You know, it's the government. And at that point I said, oh, I don't know, you know? And I just forgot about it. And then sometimes, and then so I go back to school. And then sometime in the fall, I get another letter for Peace Corps. It says, congratulations, you've been accepted. Didn't even mention having lost it before. You've been accepted. We've got a program starting up for architects and engineers to go to Colombia, and training is going to start right after my graduation, like February '66. Would you be interested? Well, yeah, I think I'm interested. I don't know what else I'm going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, you didn't have, it wasn't like you were choosing Peace Corps over two or three other?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.54555244076954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't remember. I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So take the next step."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so the next step, you know, I go to work during the summer. I come back to school in the fall. I don't remember if it was during the summer or during the fall, but I got a letter from Peace Corps. And it said, thank you for taking the test. We know you did it. Oh, we're so sorry, we've lost it. If you're interested, would you, you know, reapply in the application and you know. I'm thinking, oh god, what a crummy organization this is. You know, it's the government. And at that point I said, oh, I don't know, you know? And I just forgot about it. And then sometimes, and then so I go back to school. And then sometime in the fall, I get another letter for Peace Corps. It says, congratulations, you've been accepted. Didn't even mention having lost it before. You've been accepted. We've got a program starting up for architects and engineers to go to Colombia, and training is going to start right after my graduation, like February '66. Would you be interested? Well, yeah, I think I'm interested. I don't know what else I'm going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, you didn't have, it wasn't like you were choosing Peace Corps over two or three other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I hadn't even started to look, you know, I hadn't even thought about looking for a job or where to look."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that point, you must have told people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2728360452994885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so the next step, you know, I go to work during the summer. I come back to school in the fall. I don't remember if it was during the summer or during the fall, but I got a letter from Peace Corps. And it said, thank you for taking the test. We know you did it. Oh, we're so sorry, we've lost it. If you're interested, would you, you know, reapply in the application and you know. I'm thinking, oh god, what a crummy organization this is. You know, it's the government. And at that point I said, oh, I don't know, you know? And I just forgot about it. And then sometimes, and then so I go back to school. And then sometime in the fall, I get another letter for Peace Corps. It says, congratulations, you've been accepted. Didn't even mention having lost it before. You've been accepted. We've got a program starting up for architects and engineers to go to Colombia, and training is going to start right after my graduation, like February '66. Would you be interested? Well, yeah, I think I'm interested. I don't know what else I'm going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at that point, you didn't have, it wasn't like you were choosing Peace Corps over two or three other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I hadn't even started to look, you know, I hadn't even thought about looking for a job or where to look."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that point, you must have told people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then I started telling people, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall their reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.080928939221653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I hadn't even started to look, you know, I hadn't even thought about looking for a job or where to look."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that point, you must have told people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then I started telling people, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall their reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my mother's reaction was kind of, you're doing what? Where are you going and why are you going to do that and how long are you going to be gone and how far is it and where is it? So that was the big reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew virtually nothing of Colombia at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.978809932468504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, then I started telling people, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall their reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my mother's reaction was kind of, you're doing what? Where are you going and why are you going to do that and how long are you going to be gone and how far is it and where is it? So that was the big reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew virtually nothing of Colombia at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I looked at the map and I said, Oh, OK, there it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So graduation and then fairly soon thereafter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.754233258298337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my mother's reaction was kind of, you're doing what? Where are you going and why are you going to do that and how long are you going to be gone and how far is it and where is it? So that was the big reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew virtually nothing of Colombia at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I looked at the map and I said, Oh, OK, there it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So graduation and then fairly soon thereafter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, fairly soon after. Actually, I didn't go to graduation because they didn't have a, they didn't have a winter graduation. They had a they had one in the summer for everybody for the year. And you come back and I never got the graduation. Yes. And then we started training in February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.060259175887041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I looked at the map and I said, Oh, OK, there it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So graduation and then fairly soon thereafter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, fairly soon after. Actually, I didn't go to graduation because they didn't have a, they didn't have a winter graduation. They had a they had one in the summer for everybody for the year. And you come back and I never got the graduation. Yes. And then we started training in February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was in Los Angeles State. LA State in LA. California State University in Los Angeles. And I'm trying to remember what. But anyway, it was in Los Angeles and the training was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you remember reporting for training? You must have flown out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4002879732078233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, fairly soon after. Actually, I didn't go to graduation because they didn't have a, they didn't have a winter graduation. They had a they had one in the summer for everybody for the year. And you come back and I never got the graduation. Yes. And then we started training in February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was in Los Angeles State. LA State in LA. California State University in Los Angeles. And I'm trying to remember what. But anyway, it was in Los Angeles and the training was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you remember reporting for training? You must have flown out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, I do. That was the first time I was on a jet I think. Flew out to Los Angeles, had directions where to go, and everybody met in front of or at a hotel and somewhere in downtown LA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not on the campus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.7780977480086926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was in Los Angeles State. LA State in LA. California State University in Los Angeles. And I'm trying to remember what. But anyway, it was in Los Angeles and the training was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you remember reporting for training? You must have flown out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, I do. That was the first time I was on a jet I think. Flew out to Los Angeles, had directions where to go, and everybody met in front of or at a hotel and somewhere in downtown LA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not on the campus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on the campus. Then we all got bused to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how many at that point were in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.086775275565214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, I do. That was the first time I was on a jet I think. Flew out to Los Angeles, had directions where to go, and everybody met in front of or at a hotel and somewhere in downtown LA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not on the campus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on the campus. Then we all got bused to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how many at that point were in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were two groups. We actually trained. I'm trying to remember. There were maybe there were eight or 10 architects and engineers. And then we also trained with a big group that was going to Venezuela in physical education. So we were together. I mean, we lived together. We did Spanish and the meals and all sorts of activities together. In our specialized training we were apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a relatively small group that you were with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4297503061835712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on the campus. Then we all got bused to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About how many at that point were in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were two groups. We actually trained. I'm trying to remember. There were maybe there were eight or 10 architects and engineers. And then we also trained with a big group that was going to Venezuela in physical education. So we were together. I mean, we lived together. We did Spanish and the meals and all sorts of activities together. In our specialized training we were apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a relatively small group that you were with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yeah, it was a relatively small group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to the others in the architects and engineers group? I mean, they joined the Peace Corps like you, and you must have made some comparisons."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.69972256242619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were two groups. We actually trained. I'm trying to remember. There were maybe there were eight or 10 architects and engineers. And then we also trained with a big group that was going to Venezuela in physical education. So we were together. I mean, we lived together. We did Spanish and the meals and all sorts of activities together. In our specialized training we were apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a relatively small group that you were with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yeah, it was a relatively small group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to the others in the architects and engineers group? I mean, they joined the Peace Corps like you, and you must have made some comparisons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I, you know, like for the life of me, I can't remember. I think a lot of it was kind of like, you know, it's sounded like a really good idea. I didn't know what else I was going to do, and it sounded like an opportunity to travel and, you know, go away for a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that group all male?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9996917360290998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yeah, it was a relatively small group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to the others in the architects and engineers group? I mean, they joined the Peace Corps like you, and you must have made some comparisons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I, you know, like for the life of me, I can't remember. I think a lot of it was kind of like, you know, it's sounded like a really good idea. I didn't know what else I was going to do, and it sounded like an opportunity to travel and, you know, go away for a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that group all male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The architects and engineers were, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you're then, do you stay on the campus or do they find, were you would at a training site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1107685955878885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I, you know, like for the life of me, I can't remember. I think a lot of it was kind of like, you know, it's sounded like a really good idea. I didn't know what else I was going to do, and it sounded like an opportunity to travel and, you know, go away for a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that group all male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The architects and engineers were, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you're then, do you stay on the campus or do they find, were you would at a training site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were on. We were on the campus, actually. We lived, they had an, there was an apartment complex that the Peace Corps had rented and we people roomed together in the apartment complex. That was kind of kind of fun. I mean, here you are. You're in California. It's February. Sun is shining, it's warm. You got a swimming pool on the complex. And then it was a walk to the campus. I remember now. The campus was on one side of this kind of a valley and the apartment complex was on the other side. So that was a nice downhill and back uphill walk. I don't know how long it took, maybe 15, 20 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who ran the program? Was it LA State?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2341873284309872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The architects and engineers were, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you're then, do you stay on the campus or do they find, were you would at a training site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were on. We were on the campus, actually. We lived, they had an, there was an apartment complex that the Peace Corps had rented and we people roomed together in the apartment complex. That was kind of kind of fun. I mean, here you are. You're in California. It's February. Sun is shining, it's warm. You got a swimming pool on the complex. And then it was a walk to the campus. I remember now. The campus was on one side of this kind of a valley and the apartment complex was on the other side. So that was a nice downhill and back uphill walk. I don't know how long it took, maybe 15, 20 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who ran the program? Was it LA State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was LA State as far as I remember. Yeah, it was the university we were at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So usually training has several components. It would have been different in your case. One, of course, would be language training. So let's start by talking about that and how that was organized."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3713192538122079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were on. We were on the campus, actually. We lived, they had an, there was an apartment complex that the Peace Corps had rented and we people roomed together in the apartment complex. That was kind of kind of fun. I mean, here you are. You're in California. It's February. Sun is shining, it's warm. You got a swimming pool on the complex. And then it was a walk to the campus. I remember now. The campus was on one side of this kind of a valley and the apartment complex was on the other side. So that was a nice downhill and back uphill walk. I don't know how long it took, maybe 15, 20 minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who ran the program? Was it LA State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was LA State as far as I remember. Yeah, it was the university we were at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So usually training has several components. It would have been different in your case. One, of course, would be language training. So let's start by talking about that and how that was organized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like all we did was have language training. I mean, there was it was so intensive and there was so much of it. Every day, I mean, we had. There was classroom instruction, there was the language labs of course. We had meals where we were only supposed to speak Spanish. And so those were the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the instructors?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.523688059791342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was LA State as far as I remember. Yeah, it was the university we were at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So usually training has several components. It would have been different in your case. One, of course, would be language training. So let's start by talking about that and how that was organized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like all we did was have language training. I mean, there was it was so intensive and there was so much of it. Every day, I mean, we had. There was classroom instruction, there was the language labs of course. We had meals where we were only supposed to speak Spanish. And so those were the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the instructors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, there were, if I'm going to remember, they were university instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not necessarily Colombians or Venezuelans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6929867331014912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like all we did was have language training. I mean, there was it was so intensive and there was so much of it. Every day, I mean, we had. There was classroom instruction, there was the language labs of course. We had meals where we were only supposed to speak Spanish. And so those were the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the instructors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, there were, if I'm going to remember, they were university instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not necessarily Colombians or Venezuelans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not necessarily. But I remember at least one, one was a native Spanish speaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So in going into the language training, does the training staff make it apparent that your getting into the Peace Corps would depend on your ability with the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8810963701127679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, there were, if I'm going to remember, they were university instructors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not necessarily Colombians or Venezuelans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not necessarily. But I remember at least one, one was a native Spanish speaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So in going into the language training, does the training staff make it apparent that your getting into the Peace Corps would depend on your ability with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't remember that at all. I don't remember that as a criterion for, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your previous studies or time in Havana come into of any use?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0901070779030753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not necessarily. But I remember at least one, one was a native Spanish speaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So in going into the language training, does the training staff make it apparent that your getting into the Peace Corps would depend on your ability with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't remember that at all. I don't remember that as a criterion for, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your previous studies or time in Havana come into of any use?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It, you know, it probably did, but I can't say for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Felt like going from square one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3223411976700836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't remember that at all. I don't remember that as a criterion for, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did your previous studies or time in Havana come into of any use?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It, you know, it probably did, but I can't say for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Felt like going from square one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From square one, I mean, what I found out subsequent to that is when I finally came home and then went out to the world and started working and started traveling that I've got a facility for foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the language component was intensive and took up a good part of each day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4692679974112042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It, you know, it probably did, but I can't say for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Felt like going from square one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From square one, I mean, what I found out subsequent to that is when I finally came home and then went out to the world and started working and started traveling that I've got a facility for foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the language component was intensive and took up a good part of each day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were in a language lab, probably for, I know it seemed like a couple of hours each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty much concentrating on conversation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6325199971235602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From square one, I mean, what I found out subsequent to that is when I finally came home and then went out to the world and started working and started traveling that I've got a facility for foreign language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the language component was intensive and took up a good part of each day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were in a language lab, probably for, I know it seemed like a couple of hours each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty much concentrating on conversation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Conversation. Yeah. Well, reading. I don't remember about writing, but certainly reading and comprehension and conversation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your group work by itself in a lab and then the Venezuelans were elsewhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.813911107915067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were in a language lab, probably for, I know it seemed like a couple of hours each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty much concentrating on conversation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Conversation. Yeah. Well, reading. I don't remember about writing, but certainly reading and comprehension and conversation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your group work by itself in a lab and then the Venezuelans were elsewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we're all, yeah, it was all mixed in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all mixed in. And what else went on at LA State then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2393964295247737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we're all, yeah, it was all mixed in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all mixed in. And what else went on at LA State then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aside from the language?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a lot of physical exercise, physical training. We had what then was called circuit training. We did a lot of that. You know, you move around. We were out in the field and you move from exercise to exercise. I mean, we did a lot of that stuff. Various exercises. We didn't have the kind of equipment that we have now. I mean, there were weights and ropes and all kinds of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to define what it was, why you were doing the things you were doing? Say this is part of you need this for what's going to happen now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4882182550275265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aside from the language?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a lot of physical exercise, physical training. We had what then was called circuit training. We did a lot of that. You know, you move around. We were out in the field and you move from exercise to exercise. I mean, we did a lot of that stuff. Various exercises. We didn't have the kind of equipment that we have now. I mean, there were weights and ropes and all kinds of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to define what it was, why you were doing the things you were doing? Say this is part of you need this for what's going to happen now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, aside from the well, I mean, well. Let me tell you a little bit about the other kinds of things that went on. I mean, there were history classes and culture and about the countries that we were going to, about Colombia. So that was pretty obvious about why you're doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that off by yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.764686950030585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a lot of physical exercise, physical training. We had what then was called circuit training. We did a lot of that. You know, you move around. We were out in the field and you move from exercise to exercise. I mean, we did a lot of that stuff. Various exercises. We didn't have the kind of equipment that we have now. I mean, there were weights and ropes and all kinds of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to define what it was, why you were doing the things you were doing? Say this is part of you need this for what's going to happen now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, aside from the well, I mean, well. Let me tell you a little bit about the other kinds of things that went on. I mean, there were history classes and culture and about the countries that we were going to, about Colombia. So that was pretty obvious about why you're doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that off by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. The other group was going to Venezuela. And then we also had technology. I don't know what you want to call it. It was kind of like a huge industrial arts class kind of stuff we did, which was kind of fun. We didn't, um. We were all graduates, architects or engineers. I don't think. There may have been a couple of people that maybe had some work experience already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, engineer is a generic term, what kind of engineer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0718743889228723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, aside from the well, I mean, well. Let me tell you a little bit about the other kinds of things that went on. I mean, there were history classes and culture and about the countries that we were going to, about Colombia. So that was pretty obvious about why you're doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that off by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. The other group was going to Venezuela. And then we also had technology. I don't know what you want to call it. It was kind of like a huge industrial arts class kind of stuff we did, which was kind of fun. We didn't, um. We were all graduates, architects or engineers. I don't think. There may have been a couple of people that maybe had some work experience already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, engineer is a generic term, what kind of engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Civil engineers, I think mostly, if not all civil engineers, which focus pretty much on construction. And so we did, I mean, we worked with people from LA State who were who taught those kinds of subjects and worked on projects. I mean, we did construction. I mean, we built a brick wall in the lab one day, which was funny. Wasn't that straight, vertically or horizontally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you find it demeaning? I mean, didn't you have these skills?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.792437517188731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Civil engineers, I think mostly, if not all civil engineers, which focus pretty much on construction. And so we did, I mean, we worked with people from LA State who were who taught those kinds of subjects and worked on projects. I mean, we did construction. I mean, we built a brick wall in the lab one day, which was funny. Wasn't that straight, vertically or horizontally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you find it demeaning? I mean, didn't you have these skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't have. I mean, I'll get off on the education in this country. But you know, because you study civil engineering or study architecture doesn't mean you've got any idea what happens in the field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So people that had some field experiences, it was different. But no, but I'd never built anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the intent of this was to give you some hands-on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.213819463543034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't have. I mean, I'll get off on the education in this country. But you know, because you study civil engineering or study architecture doesn't mean you've got any idea what happens in the field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So people that had some field experiences, it was different. But no, but I'd never built anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the intent of this was to give you some hands-on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some hands-on, I think, and develop a couple things as I look back, develop an appreciation of really what it takes to do something like that, number one. Also, some team building and test how people work together. Just reactions and when things go right, when things go wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that spills over to what was always a relatively speaking controversial, the selection process. How did it operate with the eight of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.682021626158927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So people that had some field experiences, it was different. But no, but I'd never built anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the intent of this was to give you some hands-on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some hands-on, I think, and develop a couple things as I look back, develop an appreciation of really what it takes to do something like that, number one. Also, some team building and test how people work together. Just reactions and when things go right, when things go wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that spills over to what was always a relatively speaking controversial, the selection process. How did it operate with the eight of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you are aware of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.202246251287697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some hands-on, I think, and develop a couple things as I look back, develop an appreciation of really what it takes to do something like that, number one. Also, some team building and test how people work together. Just reactions and when things go right, when things go wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that spills over to what was always a relatively speaking controversial, the selection process. How did it operate with the eight of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you are aware of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was. Yeah, no. We were aware of the fact that there was a selection process and, you know, people were looking at what we were doing and how we were doing it. Criteria, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go see psychiatrists or was there psychological?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.422526236157649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was. Yeah, no. We were aware of the fact that there was a selection process and, you know, people were looking at what we were doing and how we were doing it. Criteria, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go see psychiatrists or was there psychological?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had group meetings with the shrink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everybody, we used to really laugh at those. We thought they were really funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The group's small enough that it must have begun to coalesce as a group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.025029151286277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, we had group meetings with the shrink."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everybody, we used to really laugh at those. We thought they were really funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The group's small enough that it must have begun to coalesce as a group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I'm trying to remember if part of it was just our group or if it was the bigger group, you know, everybody together. I just don't remember how those meetings worked. But I think once, once a week, maybe we met with the. We would always walk out there scratching our heads because it was kind of like, so how is your week? So what problems came out or what are the major issues? Huh, what, we don't have any problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if they asked you to do peer ratings? Because that's one of the things."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.69447683476253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everybody, we used to really laugh at those. We thought they were really funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The group's small enough that it must have begun to coalesce as a group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I'm trying to remember if part of it was just our group or if it was the bigger group, you know, everybody together. I just don't remember how those meetings worked. But I think once, once a week, maybe we met with the. We would always walk out there scratching our heads because it was kind of like, so how is your week? So what problems came out or what are the major issues? Huh, what, we don't have any problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if they asked you to do peer ratings? Because that's one of the things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two things. Well, another component of training, which I think it was still in place. It was called ASWAC. American Studies, World Affairs, Communism. Sort of a crash course in American history and the Cold War and supposedly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.438307594180589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I'm trying to remember if part of it was just our group or if it was the bigger group, you know, everybody together. I just don't remember how those meetings worked. But I think once, once a week, maybe we met with the. We would always walk out there scratching our heads because it was kind of like, so how is your week? So what problems came out or what are the major issues? Huh, what, we don't have any problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if they asked you to do peer ratings? Because that's one of the things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two things. Well, another component of training, which I think it was still in place. It was called ASWAC. American Studies, World Affairs, Communism. Sort of a crash course in American history and the Cold War and supposedly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I don't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. They may have dropped it by then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.820341771311765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two things. Well, another component of training, which I think it was still in place. It was called ASWAC. American Studies, World Affairs, Communism. Sort of a crash course in American history and the Cold War and supposedly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I don't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. They may have dropped it by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, a couple of the things that we did that were really interesting. Well, when we got our hands dirty, I mean, we actually build an outhouse, which I thought was kind of fun and funny. I mean, we are out there hammering together two by fours and sheets of plywood and stuff. One of the other things that we did is we went to Baja for a weekend, the architects and engineers. We went to Baja for a weekend to a small town called Catorce, fourteen, I guess, because it was 14 kilometers from someplace, I don't know. To just sort of, you know, experience what it was like to live in a rural Spanish speaking village with, you know, dirt floors and all this stuff that people were doing for themselves. It was a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were still living together as a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.244824190346406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I don't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. They may have dropped it by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, a couple of the things that we did that were really interesting. Well, when we got our hands dirty, I mean, we actually build an outhouse, which I thought was kind of fun and funny. I mean, we are out there hammering together two by fours and sheets of plywood and stuff. One of the other things that we did is we went to Baja for a weekend, the architects and engineers. We went to Baja for a weekend to a small town called Catorce, fourteen, I guess, because it was 14 kilometers from someplace, I don't know. To just sort of, you know, experience what it was like to live in a rural Spanish speaking village with, you know, dirt floors and all this stuff that people were doing for themselves. It was a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were still living together as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were there as a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much chance to use your Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.1294125806745745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were there as a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much chance to use your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, we tried. I mean, because the people there didn't speak English, so we had to speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember there was an American there who lived in the community. I don't remember if he was a minister, an older guy who had lived there for years and years and was sort of like helping in the community as kind of a community development kind of a person. I don't remember what organization he was with. So he spoke English. And of course, the people that were with us spoke English and Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This whole period, how long was this period at L.A. State?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.366013978527305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, we tried. I mean, because the people there didn't speak English, so we had to speak Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember there was an American there who lived in the community. I don't remember if he was a minister, an older guy who had lived there for years and years and was sort of like helping in the community as kind of a community development kind of a person. I don't remember what organization he was with. So he spoke English. And of course, the people that were with us spoke English and Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This whole period, how long was this period at L.A. State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. We start February, March, April, maybe was it two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over two months."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5177933094747835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember there was an American there who lived in the community. I don't remember if he was a minister, an older guy who had lived there for years and years and was sort of like helping in the community as kind of a community development kind of a person. I don't remember what organization he was with. So he spoke English. And of course, the people that were with us spoke English and Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This whole period, how long was this period at L.A. State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. We start February, March, April, maybe was it two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over two months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two months and then we went to Puerto Rico too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, before you get to Puerto Rico. During that two months, was there anyone from Peace Corps Washington or Peace Corps Colombia who visited and said, this is what the program, this is what you'll be doing when you get there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6864370105275373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. We start February, March, April, maybe was it two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Over two months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two months and then we went to Puerto Rico too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, before you get to Puerto Rico. During that two months, was there anyone from Peace Corps Washington or Peace Corps Colombia who visited and said, this is what the program, this is what you'll be doing when you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember, but I think some somehow we had a sense that we'd be working in local or regional offices of some kind doing working as a resource."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even though you're doing these team building activities, you were not going to go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8738189005861525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two months and then we went to Puerto Rico too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, before you get to Puerto Rico. During that two months, was there anyone from Peace Corps Washington or Peace Corps Colombia who visited and said, this is what the program, this is what you'll be doing when you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember, but I think some somehow we had a sense that we'd be working in local or regional offices of some kind doing working as a resource."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even though you're doing these team building activities, you were not going to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were not going. No. We were going individually to someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that may have simply been underhanded selection process. Who knows?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0820210006512805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember, but I think some somehow we had a sense that we'd be working in local or regional offices of some kind doing working as a resource."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even though you're doing these team building activities, you were not going to go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were not going. No. We were going individually to someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that may have simply been underhanded selection process. Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't call them overt team building. Besides the way we think of it today, I mean, we are just trying to work together to get stuff done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this phase ends, is there a selection board that meets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3133566673903116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were not going. No. We were going individually to someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that may have simply been underhanded selection process. Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't call them overt team building. Besides the way we think of it today, I mean, we are just trying to work together to get stuff done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this phase ends, is there a selection board that meets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I think there was because I don't, I remember a couple of people that got deselected and didn't go to Puerto Rico. And all of us that went to Puerto Rico then went in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those who weren't deselected, those who went on. Was there any protest, any concern? I mean, it must have been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5703962971003462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't call them overt team building. Besides the way we think of it today, I mean, we are just trying to work together to get stuff done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this phase ends, is there a selection board that meets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I think there was because I don't, I remember a couple of people that got deselected and didn't go to Puerto Rico. And all of us that went to Puerto Rico then went in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those who weren't deselected, those who went on. Was there any protest, any concern? I mean, it must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of head scratching about how, you know, why did? We don't get it. We don't understand why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody gave you an answer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8559958856670513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, you know, I think there was because I don't, I remember a couple of people that got deselected and didn't go to Puerto Rico. And all of us that went to Puerto Rico then went in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those who weren't deselected, those who went on. Was there any protest, any concern? I mean, it must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of head scratching about how, you know, why did? We don't get it. We don't understand why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody gave you an answer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember if the question was asked, or if it was the asked we probably didn't get a straight answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you finished at LA State. Do you have a chance to come home at all or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.173328761852279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of head scratching about how, you know, why did? We don't get it. We don't understand why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And nobody gave you an answer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember if the question was asked, or if it was the asked we probably didn't get a straight answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you finished at LA State. Do you have a chance to come home at all or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I came home first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at this point, any second thoughts or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5259208465025322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember if the question was asked, or if it was the asked we probably didn't get a straight answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you finished at LA State. Do you have a chance to come home at all or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I came home first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at this point, any second thoughts or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the expectation after you finished it, Puerto Rico, you'd be going straight to Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.917689829447258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I came home first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at this point, any second thoughts or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the expectation after you finished it, Puerto Rico, you'd be going straight to Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this visit, then you're sort of preparing to be overseas for a while. Was it a traumatic farewell or how did the family and friends go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.352988699385842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, ready to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the expectation after you finished it, Puerto Rico, you'd be going straight to Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this visit, then you're sort of preparing to be overseas for a while. Was it a traumatic farewell or how did the family and friends go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know if there was trauma. It wasn't traumatic for me. I know my folks had a party and it was, I don't remember. That must have been what it was. Yeah, I invited all the family and got together and had supper and, you know, dinner and what are you doing? Where are you going to go? You know, all the usual kinds of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stood up and gave a bar mitzvah speech in Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8366541104287135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this visit, then you're sort of preparing to be overseas for a while. Was it a traumatic farewell or how did the family and friends go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know if there was trauma. It wasn't traumatic for me. I know my folks had a party and it was, I don't remember. That must have been what it was. Yeah, I invited all the family and got together and had supper and, you know, dinner and what are you doing? Where are you going to go? You know, all the usual kinds of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stood up and gave a bar mitzvah speech in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, right. In Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about Puerto Rico then and now. It's just six of you at this point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3740601226985705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know if there was trauma. It wasn't traumatic for me. I know my folks had a party and it was, I don't remember. That must have been what it was. Yeah, I invited all the family and got together and had supper and, you know, dinner and what are you doing? Where are you going to go? You know, all the usual kinds of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stood up and gave a bar mitzvah speech in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, right. In Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about Puerto Rico then and now. It's just six of you at this point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yeah. I've got on my hand six, six or seven of us. I don't remember the exact number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still as a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.971177914109522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, right. In Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about Puerto Rico then and now. It's just six of you at this point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yeah. I've got on my hand six, six or seven of us. I don't remember the exact number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're still as a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So architects and engineers for Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.634642126788358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, yeah. I've got on my hand six, six or seven of us. I don't remember the exact number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're still as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're still as a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So architects and engineers for Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then the people from Venezuela also went to Puerto Rico, too. So we stayed together in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. Describe the Puerto Rico experience then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.149602363098175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're still as a group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So architects and engineers for Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then the people from Venezuela also went to Puerto Rico, too. So we stayed together in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. Describe the Puerto Rico experience then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really interesting. A lot of fun. I think there are two components to the Puerto Rico experience. One was the camp, the training camp, and the other one was actually going and living with Puerto Rican families for, I don't remember if it was a week or, but the two volunteers were assigned to go live with a, well. In my case, there were two of us. I think it was two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that had been arranged by the training staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.721780403442417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then the people from Venezuela also went to Puerto Rico, too. So we stayed together in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. Describe the Puerto Rico experience then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really interesting. A lot of fun. I think there are two components to the Puerto Rico experience. One was the camp, the training camp, and the other one was actually going and living with Puerto Rican families for, I don't remember if it was a week or, but the two volunteers were assigned to go live with a, well. In my case, there were two of us. I think it was two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that had been arranged by the training staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had had been arranged by the training staff, to live with Puerto Rican families in small towns right around the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.357533781602686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really interesting. A lot of fun. I think there are two components to the Puerto Rico experience. One was the camp, the training camp, and the other one was actually going and living with Puerto Rican families for, I don't remember if it was a week or, but the two volunteers were assigned to go live with a, well. In my case, there were two of us. I think it was two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that had been arranged by the training staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had had been arranged by the training staff, to live with Puerto Rican families in small towns right around the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The idea again was, you know, immersion in the culture, in the language, and also to just to meet people, see what kinds of projects were going on. I know at that time there was a big project in Puerto Rico for building small houses that were concrete block or poured concrete. I think they were block. But anyway, very much community based community development kinds of projects. The community would get together. I think it was the community that got together and built. The government provided materials and things, and they built these small homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the village you went to, was it just the two of you or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.063926424002984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had had been arranged by the training staff, to live with Puerto Rican families in small towns right around the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The idea again was, you know, immersion in the culture, in the language, and also to just to meet people, see what kinds of projects were going on. I know at that time there was a big project in Puerto Rico for building small houses that were concrete block or poured concrete. I think they were block. But anyway, very much community based community development kinds of projects. The community would get together. I think it was the community that got together and built. The government provided materials and things, and they built these small homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the village you went to, was it just the two of you or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was just the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have to get yourself there on your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.848807137781093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The idea again was, you know, immersion in the culture, in the language, and also to just to meet people, see what kinds of projects were going on. I know at that time there was a big project in Puerto Rico for building small houses that were concrete block or poured concrete. I think they were block. But anyway, very much community based community development kinds of projects. The community would get together. I think it was the community that got together and built. The government provided materials and things, and they built these small homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the village you went to, was it just the two of you or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was just the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have to get yourself there on your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we were, they were dropped off. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to being with the family, how did that go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.609785708645659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was just the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have to get yourself there on your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we were, they were dropped off. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to being with the family, how did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went fine. I don't remember that much about the family, but I remember the coffee was amazing. And I said, oh, so this is what coffee is like. OK. Similar experience to going to Germany and saying, oh, this is what beer is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the village. Was it about two-week village stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.344206342939621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think we were, they were dropped off. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to being with the family, how did that go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went fine. I don't remember that much about the family, but I remember the coffee was amazing. And I said, oh, so this is what coffee is like. OK. Similar experience to going to Germany and saying, oh, this is what beer is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the village. Was it about two-week village stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was about two weeks. And we lived in this town with this family and then every day we would get picked up by a staff person. I think they were Puerto Rican, I can't remember his name. But we got, you know, we sort of got a kind of an orientation to what was going on in the communities, what kind of programs were happening, how things were organized. You know, we met some local muckety- mucks and just kind of got acclimated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any formal language training going on there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.93800704771069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That went fine. I don't remember that much about the family, but I remember the coffee was amazing. And I said, oh, so this is what coffee is like. OK. Similar experience to going to Germany and saying, oh, this is what beer is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the village. Was it about two-week village stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was about two weeks. And we lived in this town with this family and then every day we would get picked up by a staff person. I think they were Puerto Rican, I can't remember his name. But we got, you know, we sort of got a kind of an orientation to what was going on in the communities, what kind of programs were happening, how things were organized. You know, we met some local muckety- mucks and just kind of got acclimated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any formal language training going on there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not during those two weeks. There was there was formal language training in the training camp. Several hours a day we would meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what would be talked about in the training camp experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.3755633863452115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was about two weeks. And we lived in this town with this family and then every day we would get picked up by a staff person. I think they were Puerto Rican, I can't remember his name. But we got, you know, we sort of got a kind of an orientation to what was going on in the communities, what kind of programs were happening, how things were organized. You know, we met some local muckety- mucks and just kind of got acclimated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any formal language training going on there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not during those two weeks. There was there was formal language training in the training camp. Several hours a day we would meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what would be talked about in the training camp experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, that was a real mix of, I mean, it was like going to summer camp. A lot more intense. You know, it was up in the morning. I don't know what time we got in the morning, six o'clock, and there was a mile run or something like that, you know. And breakfast and of course, doing our own, you know, we had army mess kits. I remember that. And so then, you know, I guess it was just like, I wasn't in the army, but I guess it was just like being in the army. When you're done with your meal, you went out and you did the dunk and the three, you know, washed your own stuff up and everything. And we. So it was very intense language training in the camp. There was also a lot of physical activity. We did a lot of swimming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the drown proofing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.167362205364459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, that was a real mix of, I mean, it was like going to summer camp. A lot more intense. You know, it was up in the morning. I don't know what time we got in the morning, six o'clock, and there was a mile run or something like that, you know. And breakfast and of course, doing our own, you know, we had army mess kits. I remember that. And so then, you know, I guess it was just like, I wasn't in the army, but I guess it was just like being in the army. When you're done with your meal, you went out and you did the dunk and the three, you know, washed your own stuff up and everything. And we. So it was very intense language training in the camp. There was also a lot of physical activity. We did a lot of swimming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the drown proofing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to say the drown proofing. And the runs every morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rock climbing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yeah. Oh, the rock climbing. Yeah, that was an interesting experience too, rock climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about people who couldn't handle this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.144891611561059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Yeah. Oh, the rock climbing. Yeah, that was an interesting experience too, rock climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about people who couldn't handle this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think there was anybody that couldn't really handle it. I mean, the instructors were really great, the ones that we had. I mean, I had a great. I had a very difficult time climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were really good. I mean, very, very encouraging. And you know, and I think everybody, everybody did it, made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the instructors former volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.494324012845621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think there was anybody that couldn't really handle it. I mean, the instructors were really great, the ones that we had. I mean, I had a great. I had a very difficult time climbing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were really good. I mean, very, very encouraging. And you know, and I think everybody, everybody did it, made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the instructors former volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a, there was a native Colombian, funny guy, who was in the camp with language training and an instructor, and he'd been an airline pilot. Regaled us with all sorts of wonderful stories about crashing DC3s in the jungle and walking away, you know. It's going to be wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did anyone on the training staff at the camp try to justify or explain why it was you were going through that particular kind of discipline of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.882582236495135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were really good. I mean, very, very encouraging. And you know, and I think everybody, everybody did it, made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the instructors former volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a, there was a native Colombian, funny guy, who was in the camp with language training and an instructor, and he'd been an airline pilot. Regaled us with all sorts of wonderful stories about crashing DC3s in the jungle and walking away, you know. It's going to be wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did anyone on the training staff at the camp try to justify or explain why it was you were going through that particular kind of discipline of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just assumed that that's what Peace Corps was all about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.313980262772372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a, there was a native Colombian, funny guy, who was in the camp with language training and an instructor, and he'd been an airline pilot. Regaled us with all sorts of wonderful stories about crashing DC3s in the jungle and walking away, you know. It's going to be wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did anyone on the training staff at the camp try to justify or explain why it was you were going through that particular kind of discipline of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just assumed that that's what Peace Corps was all about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what Peace Corps volunteers did, I mean, that was the training. I mean, I think it was great training. I mean, it was, yeah, I mean, I left there. I was in the best physical shape I'd ever been in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.806557287753596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other thing that we did, which was really interesting. We went out in groups of three or four. We were given a map and a compass. Did you do that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A map and a compass and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Poncho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poncho and sleeping bag and, you know, packs and food and some money. You're here now, the campus here, we'll see you in two days. And that was, actually that was a lot of fun. That was frustrating and it was fun and it was a great thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do it solo, though."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.340619208615106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A map and a compass and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Poncho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poncho and sleeping bag and, you know, packs and food and some money. You're here now, the campus here, we'll see you in two days. And that was, actually that was a lot of fun. That was frustrating and it was fun and it was a great thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do it solo, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not solo. We did it in a group of maybe three or four. And again, I mean, I've got stories about that stuff. I mean, the decision making, you know, you're sort of like, we have no idea, where are we, you know, anybody know where we're at? Got no idea. What do we do now? Where do we go? Did you bring the matches? And then, I mean, some wonderful things happened on that trip. I mean, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the time, at the time where you were going through this, the survival, whatever it's called. You didn't resent it or you didn't feel, you know what in the world does this have to do with being in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.934021342905673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Poncho and sleeping bag and, you know, packs and food and some money. You're here now, the campus here, we'll see you in two days. And that was, actually that was a lot of fun. That was frustrating and it was fun and it was a great thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do it solo, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not solo. We did it in a group of maybe three or four. And again, I mean, I've got stories about that stuff. I mean, the decision making, you know, you're sort of like, we have no idea, where are we, you know, anybody know where we're at? Got no idea. What do we do now? Where do we go? Did you bring the matches? And then, I mean, some wonderful things happened on that trip. I mean, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the time, at the time where you were going through this, the survival, whatever it's called. You didn't resent it or you didn't feel, you know what in the world does this have to do with being in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't let me put words in your mouth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.59335704767297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not solo. We did it in a group of maybe three or four. And again, I mean, I've got stories about that stuff. I mean, the decision making, you know, you're sort of like, we have no idea, where are we, you know, anybody know where we're at? Got no idea. What do we do now? Where do we go? Did you bring the matches? And then, I mean, some wonderful things happened on that trip. I mean, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the time, at the time where you were going through this, the survival, whatever it's called. You didn't resent it or you didn't feel, you know what in the world does this have to do with being in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't let me put words in your mouth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I certainly, I mean, it was kind of like. I'd been a Boy Scout and I'd gone to camp, and I just loved being outdoors. And there was a lot of fun and it was kind of like, you know, oh, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it was. But, but no, I mean, I just felt it was part of. Well, just sort of part of developing yourself to deal with stuff that was going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And nobody was saying, it wasn't like there was pressure about getting making it, in other words, being selected or not selected."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2148411640810775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't let me put words in your mouth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I certainly, I mean, it was kind of like. I'd been a Boy Scout and I'd gone to camp, and I just loved being outdoors. And there was a lot of fun and it was kind of like, you know, oh, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it was. But, but no, I mean, I just felt it was part of. Well, just sort of part of developing yourself to deal with stuff that was going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And nobody was saying, it wasn't like there was pressure about getting making it, in other words, being selected or not selected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I'm just trying to remember if we met with psychologists in Puerto Rico too. But uh, no, no, I don't think anybody. I certainly wasn't concerned about it. It was kind of like, oh, you know, good morning. What are we doing today? Let's go do it. Kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there wasn't anyone who said, I don't need this, I quit, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.905379071201197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I certainly, I mean, it was kind of like. I'd been a Boy Scout and I'd gone to camp, and I just loved being outdoors. And there was a lot of fun and it was kind of like, you know, oh, this shouldn't be a problem at all. Of course it was. But, but no, I mean, I just felt it was part of. Well, just sort of part of developing yourself to deal with stuff that was going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And nobody was saying, it wasn't like there was pressure about getting making it, in other words, being selected or not selected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I'm just trying to remember if we met with psychologists in Puerto Rico too. But uh, no, no, I don't think anybody. I certainly wasn't concerned about it. It was kind of like, oh, you know, good morning. What are we doing today? Let's go do it. Kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there wasn't anyone who said, I don't need this, I quit, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There wasn't anybody in our group. I don't know about the other. Well, but actually, this was the interesting thing because there were remember, there were three or four of us in this cross-country thingy and two of us were from the Colombia group and one or two were from the Venezuela group. And so they mixed us up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. How long did the training camp take?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.450421190223552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think so. I think I'm just trying to remember if we met with psychologists in Puerto Rico too. But uh, no, no, I don't think anybody. I certainly wasn't concerned about it. It was kind of like, oh, you know, good morning. What are we doing today? Let's go do it. Kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there wasn't anyone who said, I don't need this, I quit, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There wasn't anybody in our group. I don't know about the other. Well, but actually, this was the interesting thing because there were remember, there were three or four of us in this cross-country thingy and two of us were from the Colombia group and one or two were from the Venezuela group. And so they mixed us up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. How long did the training camp take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were in Puerto Rico for a month, I guess. I can go back and look. So it was maybe about three weeks in the camp and a week with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how does the training ramp up at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.944912433581725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There wasn't anybody in our group. I don't know about the other. Well, but actually, this was the interesting thing because there were remember, there were three or four of us in this cross-country thingy and two of us were from the Colombia group and one or two were from the Venezuela group. And so they mixed us up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. How long did the training camp take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were in Puerto Rico for a month, I guess. I can go back and look. So it was maybe about three weeks in the camp and a week with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how does the training ramp up at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if there was any kind of a formal, I think we all went out and drank a lot of beer that night or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but up to this point, had you met anyone who'd served as a volunteer in Colombia or was on staff in Colombia or was a Colombian with whom you might be working?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.494347148424138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were in Puerto Rico for a month, I guess. I can go back and look. So it was maybe about three weeks in the camp and a week with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how does the training ramp up at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if there was any kind of a formal, I think we all went out and drank a lot of beer that night or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but up to this point, had you met anyone who'd served as a volunteer in Colombia or was on staff in Colombia or was a Colombian with whom you might be working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not anyone with whom we might be working. There was one staff person that I remember who was a Peace Corps staff, who was a native Colombian and was working in the training camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.104830164915709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if there was any kind of a formal, I think we all went out and drank a lot of beer that night or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but up to this point, had you met anyone who'd served as a volunteer in Colombia or was on staff in Colombia or was a Colombian with whom you might be working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not anyone with whom we might be working. There was one staff person that I remember who was a Peace Corps staff, who was a native Colombian and was working in the training camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Colombia. He was this guy that had been the pilot. Yeah, I don't remember about the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, now you're all finished training. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're going to do when you get to Colombia, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.783144627684122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not anyone with whom we might be working. There was one staff person that I remember who was a Peace Corps staff, who was a native Colombian and was working in the training camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Colombia. He was this guy that had been the pilot. Yeah, I don't remember about the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, now you're all finished training. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're going to do when you get to Colombia, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.425716252982357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Colombia. He was this guy that had been the pilot. Yeah, I don't remember about the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, now you're all finished training. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're going to do when you get to Colombia, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first thing. Well, one of the interesting things was by this time, we all thought we were pretty good Spanish speakers. You know, this has been like going on for. This was maybe April and has been going on since February and all this intensive language training. And we get off the plane in Bogota and somebody says something to us in Spanish. We all look at each other, what the hell did he say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now that the seven of you fly from Puerto Rico to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.139684725535952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first thing. Well, one of the interesting things was by this time, we all thought we were pretty good Spanish speakers. You know, this has been like going on for. This was maybe April and has been going on since February and all this intensive language training. And we get off the plane in Bogota and somebody says something to us in Spanish. We all look at each other, what the hell did he say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now that the seven of you fly from Puerto Rico to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Bogota. And we got, you know, we landed and we got ourselves, uh, they put us up in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who greeted you when you arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.93298302837328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the first thing. Well, one of the interesting things was by this time, we all thought we were pretty good Spanish speakers. You know, this has been like going on for. This was maybe April and has been going on since February and all this intensive language training. And we get off the plane in Bogota and somebody says something to us in Spanish. We all look at each other, what the hell did he say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now that the seven of you fly from Puerto Rico to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Bogota. And we got, you know, we landed and we got ourselves, uh, they put us up in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who greeted you when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff from Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finally. You don't remember who was director at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.592203364859199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Bogota. And we got, you know, we landed and we got ourselves, uh, they put us up in a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who greeted you when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff from Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finally. You don't remember who was director at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was Chris Sheldon director then or was he already gone? I can't remember. So we met, you know, and we're in the hotel at night, and at some point we hear this boom. It wasn't thunder, and I don't remember what or what was going, where or when or how or what was happening, but I think the report was a couple of bombs had gone off somewhere in the city and blew up that night. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now at any point in training had there been a discussion of the political situation in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.32467040539911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps staff from Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Finally. You don't remember who was director at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was Chris Sheldon director then or was he already gone? I can't remember. So we met, you know, and we're in the hotel at night, and at some point we hear this boom. It wasn't thunder, and I don't remember what or what was going, where or when or how or what was happening, but I think the report was a couple of bombs had gone off somewhere in the city and blew up that night. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now at any point in training had there been a discussion of the political situation in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, oh no. We had a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were at L.A. State?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.805189339332344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was Chris Sheldon director then or was he already gone? I can't remember. So we met, you know, and we're in the hotel at night, and at some point we hear this boom. It wasn't thunder, and I don't remember what or what was going, where or when or how or what was happening, but I think the report was a couple of bombs had gone off somewhere in the city and blew up that night. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now at any point in training had there been a discussion of the political situation in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, oh no. We had a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were at L.A. State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in L.A. state and probably Puerto Rico, all I remember. But because this was the sixties and Colombia was just coming out of the La Violencia period where, you know, there was an agreement between the liberal and conservative parties to switch the presidency every whatever it was, to try to mitigate the violence. So that was very, very much part of the conversations that we had on the political situation and the history of politics in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did anyone talk about you might be being put in an area where you're at risk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.339099265924826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, oh no. We had a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were at L.A. State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in L.A. state and probably Puerto Rico, all I remember. But because this was the sixties and Colombia was just coming out of the La Violencia period where, you know, there was an agreement between the liberal and conservative parties to switch the presidency every whatever it was, to try to mitigate the violence. So that was very, very much part of the conversations that we had on the political situation and the history of politics in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did anyone talk about you might be being put in an area where you're at risk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you were just, you were aware of generically."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.82122140658314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in L.A. state and probably Puerto Rico, all I remember. But because this was the sixties and Colombia was just coming out of the La Violencia period where, you know, there was an agreement between the liberal and conservative parties to switch the presidency every whatever it was, to try to mitigate the violence. So that was very, very much part of the conversations that we had on the political situation and the history of politics in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did anyone talk about you might be being put in an area where you're at risk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you were just, you were aware of generically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generically. And then the other thing that was really starting to happen that I wasn't aware of and very peripherally until I started reading the newspapers was the rise of the guerrilla movement, the communist guerilla movement in the '60s, that was starting to happen in Colombia as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Let's go back to your arrival now. You're in country, you're realizing that there's more than one kind of Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0235793406479328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you were just, you were aware of generically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generically. And then the other thing that was really starting to happen that I wasn't aware of and very peripherally until I started reading the newspapers was the rise of the guerrilla movement, the communist guerilla movement in the '60s, that was starting to happen in Colombia as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Let's go back to your arrival now. You're in country, you're realizing that there's more than one kind of Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I'm trying to remember, I know that Sam and Maureen, they were in a community development group. And they didn't train with us. Well, I have to go back and look at my pictures, but anyway, when we got to the Peace Corps office the next morning, it wasn't just us. There was also this group of community development volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. A larger group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.248421489608814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Generically. And then the other thing that was really starting to happen that I wasn't aware of and very peripherally until I started reading the newspapers was the rise of the guerrilla movement, the communist guerilla movement in the '60s, that was starting to happen in Colombia as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Let's go back to your arrival now. You're in country, you're realizing that there's more than one kind of Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I'm trying to remember, I know that Sam and Maureen, they were in a community development group. And they didn't train with us. Well, I have to go back and look at my pictures, but anyway, when we got to the Peace Corps office the next morning, it wasn't just us. There was also this group of community development volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. A larger group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A larger group. Yeah. And I don't know, whatever speeches were made and the welcoming and the whole whatever it was all about and everything. And then we were probably introduced, I'm guessing to, you know, to staff and talked about the procedures and the Peace Corps doctors and whatever. And then eventually then they started assigning people to their destinations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there was a swearing in ceremony?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.498246099565349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now I'm trying to remember, I know that Sam and Maureen, they were in a community development group. And they didn't train with us. Well, I have to go back and look at my pictures, but anyway, when we got to the Peace Corps office the next morning, it wasn't just us. There was also this group of community development volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. A larger group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A larger group. Yeah. And I don't know, whatever speeches were made and the welcoming and the whole whatever it was all about and everything. And then we were probably introduced, I'm guessing to, you know, to staff and talked about the procedures and the Peace Corps doctors and whatever. And then eventually then they started assigning people to their destinations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there was a swearing in ceremony?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was. And I don't remember where it was. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes the ambassador does that. You just know it happened."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.775828999517054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A larger group. Yeah. And I don't know, whatever speeches were made and the welcoming and the whole whatever it was all about and everything. And then we were probably introduced, I'm guessing to, you know, to staff and talked about the procedures and the Peace Corps doctors and whatever. And then eventually then they started assigning people to their destinations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there was a swearing in ceremony?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was. And I don't remember where it was. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes the ambassador does that. You just know it happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I forgot until you mentioned it, but I said, oh yeah, there was a swearing in ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now the business of being in Bogota is to get your assignment"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.084254443907838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was. And I don't remember where it was. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes the ambassador does that. You just know it happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I forgot until you mentioned it, but I said, oh yeah, there was a swearing in ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now the business of being in Bogota is to get your assignment"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, be welcomed in country and meet the staff and get our assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they take you aside and begin interviewing you about, do you want to be assigned alone, are you more interested in this kind of work, that kind of work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8077215356886893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, be welcomed in country and meet the staff and get our assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they take you aside and begin interviewing you about, do you want to be assigned alone, are you more interested in this kind of work, that kind of work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember that. Not for our group anyway. Because there are eight of us and we all went, the eight of us went to different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or whatever the number was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that decided?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.230801706320766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember that. Not for our group anyway. Because there are eight of us and we all went, the eight of us went to different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or whatever the number was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that decided?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea. I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about getting your assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.58977967368974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or whatever the number was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that decided?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea. I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about getting your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The architects got assigned to work with Colombian architects, government architects in some kind of government program. And I don't remember how many architects we were, were we only. Maybe there were six of us. There were two architects and four engineers. Um, so anyway, so I got assigned to go to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Is that a regional headquarters or a district headquarters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9886440818774886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea. I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about getting your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The architects got assigned to work with Colombian architects, government architects in some kind of government program. And I don't remember how many architects we were, were we only. Maybe there were six of us. There were two architects and four engineers. Um, so anyway, so I got assigned to go to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Is that a regional headquarters or a district headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, like state?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3207156465305427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The architects got assigned to work with Colombian architects, government architects in some kind of government program. And I don't remember how many architects we were, were we only. Maybe there were six of us. There were two architects and four engineers. Um, so anyway, so I got assigned to go to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Is that a regional headquarters or a district headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, like state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, it's a state capital. Medellin is the capital of the province of Antioquia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.578572940589492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, like state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, it's a state capital. Medellin is the capital of the province of Antioquia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at that time was a city of about 500,000 people. And I went to work in an office that was funded by the Alliance for Progress. And it's charter was a comprehensive educational development program. So in that office, there were Colombians and there were volunteers. They were writing curriculum. They were writing and publishing textbooks. They were designing and building schools. They were training teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these Peace Corps volunteers or other volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8650810450994353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, it's a state capital. Medellin is the capital of the province of Antioquia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at that time was a city of about 500,000 people. And I went to work in an office that was funded by the Alliance for Progress. And it's charter was a comprehensive educational development program. So in that office, there were Colombians and there were volunteers. They were writing curriculum. They were writing and publishing textbooks. They were designing and building schools. They were training teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were these Peace Corps volunteers or other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were some Peace Corps volunteers, but it was Colombian government funded, I mean, you know, yeah, running the office and the programs. But there were volunteers that worked in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you get from Bogota to Medellin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5371370927153523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were some Peace Corps volunteers, but it was Colombian government funded, I mean, you know, yeah, running the office and the programs. But there were volunteers that worked in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you get from Bogota to Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got on a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, everybody, whatever the other volunteers that were going to Medellin because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the only architect?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.93015232523928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got on a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, everybody, whatever the other volunteers that were going to Medellin because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the only architect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only architect"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there may have been some community development, maybe an engineer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3668359169325335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, everybody, whatever the other volunteers that were going to Medellin because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the only architect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only architect"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there may have been some community development, maybe an engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just community development and myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was there any kind of wrench in your group finally breaking up? You must have become pretty tight all through training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.852039907702815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only architect"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there may have been some community development, maybe an engineer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just community development and myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was there any kind of wrench in your group finally breaking up? You must have become pretty tight all through training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wrench? I don't remember I was kind of. I mean, it was kind of like, well, can we stay in touch, yeah, we can stay in touch, or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And what about, classically people talk about culture shock at some point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.391155453003127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just community development and myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was there any kind of wrench in your group finally breaking up? You must have become pretty tight all through training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wrench? I don't remember I was kind of. I mean, it was kind of like, well, can we stay in touch, yeah, we can stay in touch, or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And what about, classically people talk about culture shock at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're suddenly aware that you are in an environment, a very different cultural environment. It doesn't happen to everyone, but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.99017272555903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wrench? I don't remember I was kind of. I mean, it was kind of like, well, can we stay in touch, yeah, we can stay in touch, or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And what about, classically people talk about culture shock at some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're suddenly aware that you are in an environment, a very different cultural environment. It doesn't happen to everyone, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, good question. That's a really good question. I mean, the reverse culture shock when I came home was very apparent. But the culture shock being there, I don't know. When did that? I mean, when did I really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a point you said, well, you know, this is just, this is not like Chicago or this is exactly like Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.655747472843366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're suddenly aware that you are in an environment, a very different cultural environment. It doesn't happen to everyone, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, good question. That's a really good question. I mean, the reverse culture shock when I came home was very apparent. But the culture shock being there, I don't know. When did that? I mean, when did I really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a point you said, well, you know, this is just, this is not like Chicago or this is exactly like Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, you know, it was warm and sunny every day. It's not like Chicago. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.395274969825962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, good question. That's a really good question. I mean, the reverse culture shock when I came home was very apparent. But the culture shock being there, I don't know. When did that? I mean, when did I really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a point you said, well, you know, this is just, this is not like Chicago or this is exactly like Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, you know, it was warm and sunny every day. It's not like Chicago. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some things I think if we keep talking will come to my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, because we'll talk more about language. Talk about your first three or four days in Medellin. I mean, you have to find a place to get a place to stay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.105861077584402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, you know, it was warm and sunny every day. It's not like Chicago. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some things I think if we keep talking will come to my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, because we'll talk more about language. Talk about your first three or four days in Medellin. I mean, you have to find a place to get a place to stay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. There was already a volunteer who was working in this office. So he was already there and he had had a place and I moved in with him. Because there was room, so I just moved in with him. And I don't remember, I just, I don't remember the first day in the office or. I guess I was met, I guess I was met by the volunteer leader. I think. The volunteer leader. So we talk about staff, so it was the volunteer leader I think that met me and probably took me to where I was going to live. May have taken me to the office to meet the architect that was in charge of the office and the other people, I don't remember that. Certainly took me to the Peace Corps office to meet the Peace Corps staff that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in a way, you were different than other volunteers, being the first architect to come into the Peace Corps program there. Am I correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.895401197316002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some things I think if we keep talking will come to my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, because we'll talk more about language. Talk about your first three or four days in Medellin. I mean, you have to find a place to get a place to stay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. There was already a volunteer who was working in this office. So he was already there and he had had a place and I moved in with him. Because there was room, so I just moved in with him. And I don't remember, I just, I don't remember the first day in the office or. I guess I was met, I guess I was met by the volunteer leader. I think. The volunteer leader. So we talk about staff, so it was the volunteer leader I think that met me and probably took me to where I was going to live. May have taken me to the office to meet the architect that was in charge of the office and the other people, I don't remember that. Certainly took me to the Peace Corps office to meet the Peace Corps staff that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in a way, you were different than other volunteers, being the first architect to come into the Peace Corps program there. Am I correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm just thinking. There had been, there was an architect already working there. A Peace Corps volunteer architect living there, working there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but that wasn't the person you room with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.77266799701778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. There was already a volunteer who was working in this office. So he was already there and he had had a place and I moved in with him. Because there was room, so I just moved in with him. And I don't remember, I just, I don't remember the first day in the office or. I guess I was met, I guess I was met by the volunteer leader. I think. The volunteer leader. So we talk about staff, so it was the volunteer leader I think that met me and probably took me to where I was going to live. May have taken me to the office to meet the architect that was in charge of the office and the other people, I don't remember that. Certainly took me to the Peace Corps office to meet the Peace Corps staff that was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in a way, you were different than other volunteers, being the first architect to come into the Peace Corps program there. Am I correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm just thinking. There had been, there was an architect already working there. A Peace Corps volunteer architect living there, working there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but that wasn't the person you room with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was the person I roomed with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you were both assigned to the same?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.747408885575311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm just thinking. There had been, there was an architect already working there. A Peace Corps volunteer architect living there, working there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but that wasn't the person you room with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was the person I roomed with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you were both assigned to the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, to the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had an apartment. Did you do your own cooking? Did you have some?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.608232095083679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was the person I roomed with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you were both assigned to the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, to the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had an apartment. Did you do your own cooking? Did you have some?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did our own cooking. We lived, actually, we lived in a very blue-collar neighborhood that was probably a, in those days, maybe 20-minute bus ride from the center of Medellin, from downtown Medellin. We did our, yeah, we did our own, well. We did our own cooking. We lived on the second floor and the landlord had a little store in the first floor. And we'd go down there in the morning, usually buy a couple of eggs from him and some baloney and a couple of oranges or whatever and make breakfast in the morning and go to work. I mean, it was, you know, it was like a nine to five job, except it wasn't like a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to get to work, you would take the bus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.564702327870753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, to the same office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had an apartment. Did you do your own cooking? Did you have some?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did our own cooking. We lived, actually, we lived in a very blue-collar neighborhood that was probably a, in those days, maybe 20-minute bus ride from the center of Medellin, from downtown Medellin. We did our, yeah, we did our own, well. We did our own cooking. We lived on the second floor and the landlord had a little store in the first floor. And we'd go down there in the morning, usually buy a couple of eggs from him and some baloney and a couple of oranges or whatever and make breakfast in the morning and go to work. I mean, it was, you know, it was like a nine to five job, except it wasn't like a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to get to work, you would take the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd just get on the bus, walk a couple of blocks to get on the bus and get off a couple of blocks from the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Along with this other architect. So you sort of had an in- between center, to smooth the way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.627447030967502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did our own cooking. We lived, actually, we lived in a very blue-collar neighborhood that was probably a, in those days, maybe 20-minute bus ride from the center of Medellin, from downtown Medellin. We did our, yeah, we did our own, well. We did our own cooking. We lived on the second floor and the landlord had a little store in the first floor. And we'd go down there in the morning, usually buy a couple of eggs from him and some baloney and a couple of oranges or whatever and make breakfast in the morning and go to work. I mean, it was, you know, it was like a nine to five job, except it wasn't like a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to get to work, you would take the bus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd just get on the bus, walk a couple of blocks to get on the bus and get off a couple of blocks from the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Along with this other architect. So you sort of had an in- between center, to smooth the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk, if you can, about your settling into working in that office, what you were doing and with whom you were working."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.474941145519447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd just get on the bus, walk a couple of blocks to get on the bus and get off a couple of blocks from the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Along with this other architect. So you sort of had an in- between center, to smooth the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk, if you can, about your settling into working in that office, what you were doing and with whom you were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The office was doing a lot of schools, designing a lot of schools. Our particular job, the other architect and myself, was to work on the rural schools. The office was also doing the urban schools around the city and environs. And the schools that we were doing were typically one-room schools with a little living quarters for a teacher. What I like to say when I talk about rural, I'm talking about, you know, two hours by train, an hour by bus, and another 45 minutes by horse. I mean, it was really rural schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is going to be concrete block construction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.1943790505771625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk, if you can, about your settling into working in that office, what you were doing and with whom you were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The office was doing a lot of schools, designing a lot of schools. Our particular job, the other architect and myself, was to work on the rural schools. The office was also doing the urban schools around the city and environs. And the schools that we were doing were typically one-room schools with a little living quarters for a teacher. What I like to say when I talk about rural, I'm talking about, you know, two hours by train, an hour by bus, and another 45 minutes by horse. I mean, it was really rural schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is going to be concrete block construction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were schools in areas where there were community development Peace Corps volunteers working with the community. And the community, you know, they said, we want to build a school. Ok, we'll build a whole school. So Howard comes out, Peter comes out, we look things over and then we design a school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the funding of the construction materials through USAID?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.88264338953018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The office was doing a lot of schools, designing a lot of schools. Our particular job, the other architect and myself, was to work on the rural schools. The office was also doing the urban schools around the city and environs. And the schools that we were doing were typically one-room schools with a little living quarters for a teacher. What I like to say when I talk about rural, I'm talking about, you know, two hours by train, an hour by bus, and another 45 minutes by horse. I mean, it was really rural schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is going to be concrete block construction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were schools in areas where there were community development Peace Corps volunteers working with the community. And the community, you know, they said, we want to build a school. Ok, we'll build a whole school. So Howard comes out, Peter comes out, we look things over and then we design a school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the funding of the construction materials through USAID?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came from the Colombian government. And I don't know, you know, if it was, I suspect it was the Alliance for Progress money. But anyway, it came from, all the materials came from the government, the Colombian government, and pay for a supervisor or superintendent came from the government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now initially, you're sitting in this office in Medellin. I mean, how complicated is it to design a one-room schoolhouse? Are you doing all the detailed drawings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.497090604358247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came from the Colombian government. And I don't know, you know, if it was, I suspect it was the Alliance for Progress money. But anyway, it came from, all the materials came from the government, the Colombian government, and pay for a supervisor or superintendent came from the government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now initially, you're sitting in this office in Medellin. I mean, how complicated is it to design a one-room schoolhouse? Are you doing all the detailed drawings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything. Well, it wasn't that complicated, except I was working in the metric system, so I had to learn how to do that, which was, actually it was pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have a Colombian counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.218989560398052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything. Well, it wasn't that complicated, except I was working in the metric system, so I had to learn how to do that, which was, actually it was pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have a Colombian counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there were two other architects. Raul Gonzalez, who was the head of the office. And then his name may come to me. And then he had an assistant, Dr. Morales, who was also a Colombian architect. So there were four architects in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got it. Now the question, why were you needed there? Why couldn't someone Colombian do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.91233279061488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there were two other architects. Raul Gonzalez, who was the head of the office. And then his name may come to me. And then he had an assistant, Dr. Morales, who was also a Colombian architect. So there were four architects in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got it. Now the question, why were you needed there? Why couldn't someone Colombian do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's a good question. I have no idea, I mean, I, you know, whether it was because the remoteness of the sites and the non- desirability of, you know, rolling up your sleeves after getting a degree from a Colombian university as an architect and going out and doing that stuff. I remember that I, either while I was there or, there was a program that had been initiated for physicians to go out and work in the rural towns. It was a mandate that they had to do that. But it hadn't, I guess, spilled over to other professions yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I mean, because these, as I said, these sites were really, really out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to the work you're doing. How long was it that you stayed in the office before going out to a site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.569258656238756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's a good question. I have no idea, I mean, I, you know, whether it was because the remoteness of the sites and the non- desirability of, you know, rolling up your sleeves after getting a degree from a Colombian university as an architect and going out and doing that stuff. I remember that I, either while I was there or, there was a program that had been initiated for physicians to go out and work in the rural towns. It was a mandate that they had to do that. But it hadn't, I guess, spilled over to other professions yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I mean, because these, as I said, these sites were really, really out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to the work you're doing. How long was it that you stayed in the office before going out to a site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It, you know, probably wasn't. I don't know. I've looked for, I know I brought home a copy of my monthly reports. I don't know where it disappeared. I've got my termination report, but that doesn't have, you know. But it was probably within the first month, I'm sure, or six weeks or so before I went out someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that initial period, what was happening with your Spanish, with your language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.299176284709729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I mean, because these, as I said, these sites were really, really out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to the work you're doing. How long was it that you stayed in the office before going out to a site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It, you know, probably wasn't. I don't know. I've looked for, I know I brought home a copy of my monthly reports. I don't know where it disappeared. I've got my termination report, but that doesn't have, you know. But it was probably within the first month, I'm sure, or six weeks or so before I went out someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that initial period, what was happening with your Spanish, with your language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, you know, using it every day. I had to use it every day. I had to speak, you know, except at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you use it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.110195871899698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. It, you know, probably wasn't. I don't know. I've looked for, I know I brought home a copy of my monthly reports. I don't know where it disappeared. I've got my termination report, but that doesn't have, you know. But it was probably within the first month, I'm sure, or six weeks or so before I went out someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that initial period, what was happening with your Spanish, with your language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, you know, using it every day. I had to use it every day. I had to speak, you know, except at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you use it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, communicated in the office and communicated on the street and on the busses and the restaurants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did it go for the first? You recall getting on the wrong bus or getting?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.9002176354441085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, you know, using it every day. I had to use it every day. I had to speak, you know, except at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you use it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, communicated in the office and communicated on the street and on the busses and the restaurants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did it go for the first? You recall getting on the wrong bus or getting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never got on the wrong bus. I never got the wrong food. I think it was just that, you know, there was there was a lot of, could you please repeat, that I didn't quite understand you. I think about six, seven, eight months after I got there, I finally said, oh god, I'm thinking in Spanish, I'm not translating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but that's six, six, eight months."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.778019594937899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, communicated in the office and communicated on the street and on the busses and the restaurants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did it go for the first? You recall getting on the wrong bus or getting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never got on the wrong bus. I never got the wrong food. I think it was just that, you know, there was there was a lot of, could you please repeat, that I didn't quite understand you. I think about six, seven, eight months after I got there, I finally said, oh god, I'm thinking in Spanish, I'm not translating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but that's six, six, eight months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, no. It took a while. I mean, there's no question about it. It took a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the initial stages, the Colombians you meeting on the street, the bus, the store, what was their perception of who you are?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.367925425849258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, no. It took a while. I mean, there's no question about it. It took a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the initial stages, the Colombians you meeting on the street, the bus, the store, what was their perception of who you are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, let me put it this way. Colombia is a Catholic country. The hierarchy was something like Kennedy, the Virgin Mary, the Pope, and God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Kennedy, I mean, people were just enamored with Kennedy. And so you're an American. Did you know Kennedy? You know, that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you immediately perceived as American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.297694917610286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, let me put it this way. Colombia is a Catholic country. The hierarchy was something like Kennedy, the Virgin Mary, the Pope, and God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Kennedy, I mean, people were just enamored with Kennedy. And so you're an American. Did you know Kennedy? You know, that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you immediately perceived as American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, not a Colombian."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.219661019566985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Kennedy, I mean, people were just enamored with Kennedy. And so you're an American. Did you know Kennedy? You know, that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you immediately perceived as American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, not a Colombian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a Colombian. No, somebody from the United States. So yeah, very, very accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was it your language that was the giveaway or your appearance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.244067799518872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, not a Colombian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a Colombian. No, somebody from the United States. So yeah, very, very accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was it your language that was the giveaway or your appearance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my red hair and white skin, sunburned skin. And yeah, and the language, I'm sure too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Let's take stay within the first couple of months. There must have been some free time. You didn't work seven days a week."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.160075332798746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a Colombian. No, somebody from the United States. So yeah, very, very accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was it your language that was the giveaway or your appearance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my red hair and white skin, sunburned skin. And yeah, and the language, I'm sure too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Let's take stay within the first couple of months. There must have been some free time. You didn't work seven days a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Evenings were free. I mean, again, it was a nine to five job. I didn't have meetings to go to in the evenings, you know, like. So I mean, so there was always getting together at restaurants for dinner, meeting other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So pretty much what emerged was you socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.177861480887495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my red hair and white skin, sunburned skin. And yeah, and the language, I'm sure too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Let's take stay within the first couple of months. There must have been some free time. You didn't work seven days a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Evenings were free. I mean, again, it was a nine to five job. I didn't have meetings to go to in the evenings, you know, like. So I mean, so there was always getting together at restaurants for dinner, meeting other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So pretty much what emerged was you socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers, sometimes with other Colombians. It just depended on. But mostly with other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any pressure? It became a big issue at various times that that's inappropriate, you're here because you're supposed to be involved with Colombians, you should be. If you have free time, you should go and build a latrine in the backyard or something like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.343038865293204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, socialized with other Peace Corps volunteers, sometimes with other Colombians. It just depended on. But mostly with other volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any pressure? It became a big issue at various times that that's inappropriate, you're here because you're supposed to be involved with Colombians, you should be. If you have free time, you should go and build a latrine in the backyard or something like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not. I don't think so. Not for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not for us. I mean, I think if you're. Well, let me back up, I left out something completely. Before I went to Medellin, I went to a small town in Antioquia for a couple of months, and lived with a volunteer, a community development volunteer who was already there. So that I could, again, acculturate, acclimate language, and also find out about how the community development process and programs work. So there we really did spend a lot of time with Colombians because he and I were the two Americans in this town of 1,500 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Were there any construction projects going on at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.492265405881337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not. I don't think so. Not for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not for us. I mean, I think if you're. Well, let me back up, I left out something completely. Before I went to Medellin, I went to a small town in Antioquia for a couple of months, and lived with a volunteer, a community development volunteer who was already there. So that I could, again, acculturate, acclimate language, and also find out about how the community development process and programs work. So there we really did spend a lot of time with Colombians because he and I were the two Americans in this town of 1,500 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Were there any construction projects going on at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not there. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you were pretty much free just to explore what the town was like."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.213628228757042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not for us. I mean, I think if you're. Well, let me back up, I left out something completely. Before I went to Medellin, I went to a small town in Antioquia for a couple of months, and lived with a volunteer, a community development volunteer who was already there. So that I could, again, acculturate, acclimate language, and also find out about how the community development process and programs work. So there we really did spend a lot of time with Colombians because he and I were the two Americans in this town of 1,500 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Were there any construction projects going on at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not there. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you were pretty much free just to explore what the town was like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I mean, but he had stuff going on, and I just sort of fell into it. Working with the local, the coffee federation had a counterpart community development person that he was working with. And so in that town and in several other, you know, going around there. He'd been there. Jim had probably been there maybe a year and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah, at least a year, maybe a little more than a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this, in a way, was additional training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.015142476396713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not there. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you were pretty much free just to explore what the town was like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I mean, but he had stuff going on, and I just sort of fell into it. Working with the local, the coffee federation had a counterpart community development person that he was working with. And so in that town and in several other, you know, going around there. He'd been there. Jim had probably been there maybe a year and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah, at least a year, maybe a little more than a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this, in a way, was additional training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, this was additional training. I mean, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another two months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.46126941821857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I mean, but he had stuff going on, and I just sort of fell into it. Working with the local, the coffee federation had a counterpart community development person that he was working with. And so in that town and in several other, you know, going around there. He'd been there. Jim had probably been there maybe a year and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah, at least a year, maybe a little more than a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this, in a way, was additional training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, this was additional training. I mean, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another two months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another two or three months, yeah. And so that was really good, I mean, and then like I got used to the transportation system, such as it was. We'd go into, I mean, we'd go into Medellin and catch the bus going to Medellin in the morning, maybe stay there one day, maybe come back the same day. I mean that those days it was a two, three hour bus ride. And I had a horse. Had my horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you get the horse?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.956966020242855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, this was additional training. I mean, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another two months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another two or three months, yeah. And so that was really good, I mean, and then like I got used to the transportation system, such as it was. We'd go into, I mean, we'd go into Medellin and catch the bus going to Medellin in the morning, maybe stay there one day, maybe come back the same day. I mean that those days it was a two, three hour bus ride. And I had a horse. Had my horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you get the horse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this small town, because that's how we got around from the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a first for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.507740022492061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another two or three months, yeah. And so that was really good, I mean, and then like I got used to the transportation system, such as it was. We'd go into, I mean, we'd go into Medellin and catch the bus going to Medellin in the morning, maybe stay there one day, maybe come back the same day. I mean that those days it was a two, three hour bus ride. And I had a horse. Had my horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you get the horse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this small town, because that's how we got around from the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a first for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't the first time I'd ridden a horse. It's the first time I had a horse, I mean, and took care of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not many people in Chicago."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.119711136102289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this small town, because that's how we got around from the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a first for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't the first time I'd ridden a horse. It's the first time I had a horse, I mean, and took care of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not many people in Chicago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And then I learned, you know, I learned how to saddle a horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to care for the horse, did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.799679040113654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't the first time I'd ridden a horse. It's the first time I had a horse, I mean, and took care of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not many people in Chicago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And then I learned, you know, I learned how to saddle a horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to care for the horse, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was kept in a stable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So now you're back in Medellin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.555198933459615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And then I learned, you know, I learned how to saddle a horse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to care for the horse, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was kept in a stable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So now you're back in Medellin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I went to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, then and you've done, you're working in the office, you're socializing somewhat with other Peace Corps people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.394665481621795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was kept in a stable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So now you're back in Medellin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I went to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, then and you've done, you're working in the office, you're socializing somewhat with other Peace Corps people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we met, you know, we'd meet other Colombians somehow or other young people. People know people. And you know, you go to a party once in a while, you meet other people and stuff like things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wouldn't, you inviting Colombians to come into your apartment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.808228989656537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we met, you know, we'd meet other Colombians somehow or other young people. People know people. And you know, you go to a party once in a while, you meet other people and stuff like things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you wouldn't, you inviting Colombians to come into your apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Our, where we lived, the apartment came with a Colombian. Or a Colombian came with the apartment, I don't know how you want to phrase it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very interesting guy. And this story goes back to a little story during training. A lot of us got fuzzy at the camp during training and then we went out on our little two-day hike, you know, they said, shave. No facial hair. Because the, you know, the guerilla stuff was, you know. Castro and Che and the whole nine yards. So let's go back to Colombia. So the men are all, they've got mustaches, but nobody wears a beard. Except for our companero Picasso Goralo, who had his full beard. He almost looked a little bit like a dark Fidel. But anyway, he just, as it was explained, he just kind of came with the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a spy for the government?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0091433218405967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Our, where we lived, the apartment came with a Colombian. Or a Colombian came with the apartment, I don't know how you want to phrase it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very interesting guy. And this story goes back to a little story during training. A lot of us got fuzzy at the camp during training and then we went out on our little two-day hike, you know, they said, shave. No facial hair. Because the, you know, the guerilla stuff was, you know. Castro and Che and the whole nine yards. So let's go back to Colombia. So the men are all, they've got mustaches, but nobody wears a beard. Except for our companero Picasso Goralo, who had his full beard. He almost looked a little bit like a dark Fidel. But anyway, he just, as it was explained, he just kind of came with the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he a spy for the government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was the nicest, gentlest guy. Yeah, and talk about language. I mean, he was, I'm not sure what his education was. His work was he was a body and fender man. But, I mean, we would go to parties and he would come. He'd put on a sport jacket with his Levi's and we'd go to parties and people would ask them what university he taught at or what his subject area was because he was so well-spoken. And for the two years that I knew him, he was still reading Don Quixote. But he was. I mean, so yes. So we spoke, I mean, a lot of Spanish because he didn't speak English. Or he spoke a little English. But he was great because he would really help us with our Spanish. No, no, you don't say this. What you want to say is, so he'd correct me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of like an informant or mentor to the culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.756026504582437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he would. I mean, he lived there. It was interesting. We had an apartment on the second floor. We had a kind of a small living room and there were two bedrooms and a little alcove was kind of a dining area and a small kitchen, and the shower was on the roof. It was one of these, you know, make sure you have the water running before you plug it in showers. And there was kind of a little bench up there and a little sheltered area, and that's where he slept. He lived up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he related to the family that you were renting from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't believe so. I mean, the story was that actually he was related to a very wealthy family in Colombia that was a soft drink manufacturer. I mean, his name or his last, his mother's name, was of that family. But I, you know, it was kind of hard to get stuff from him. But anyway, so he was. And he took care of the place. I mean, he swept up the place and whatever. And so he had friends. Sometimes they'd come over and, you know, we'd have parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were you being paid by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did we get a check or was it just? I guess the answer is poorly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's directly from Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.062251671758263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't believe so. I mean, the story was that actually he was related to a very wealthy family in Colombia that was a soft drink manufacturer. I mean, his name or his last, his mother's name, was of that family. But I, you know, it was kind of hard to get stuff from him. But anyway, so he was. And he took care of the place. I mean, he swept up the place and whatever. And so he had friends. Sometimes they'd come over and, you know, we'd have parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how were you being paid by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did we get a check or was it just? I guess the answer is poorly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's directly from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly from Peace Corps. Yeah, we were paid directly from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but the poorly was intentional."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.402501857509181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did we get a check or was it just? I guess the answer is poorly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that's directly from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly from Peace Corps. Yeah, we were paid directly from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but the poorly was intentional."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, that's right. Absolutely. Although it wasn't so poorly that we couldn't eat out really well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During the first couple of months, how was your health?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7805576194546453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Directly from Peace Corps. Yeah, we were paid directly from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but the poorly was intentional."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, that's right. Absolutely. Although it wasn't so poorly that we couldn't eat out really well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During the first couple of months, how was your health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health. My health while I was there was was great, except for one episode that I had. My health was good. In Puerto Rico it wasn't too bad. I was having a terrible allergic reactions. So I don't know what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's go then to getting you out from Medellin to some of the sites where you've been doing these drawings. Describe your first early trips out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.667355085746475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My health. My health while I was there was was great, except for one episode that I had. My health was good. In Puerto Rico it wasn't too bad. I was having a terrible allergic reactions. So I don't know what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's go then to getting you out from Medellin to some of the sites where you've been doing these drawings. Describe your first early trips out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I went with my roommate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Pete?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with Pete. Did we fly? No, I think the first trips were within the department and it was there. There were sites where volunteers were working, actually built two schools, two schools or three schools, for the same volunteers in different communities they were working in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you went out, when you go to the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.185950095273862, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I went with my roommate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Pete?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with Pete. Did we fly? No, I think the first trips were within the department and it was there. There were sites where volunteers were working, actually built two schools, two schools or three schools, for the same volunteers in different communities they were working in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you went out, when you go to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went out. We went out once. One time we went out, we surveyed. Oh, I know. We went out and we surveyed for a water line, that might have been the first trip that we had made, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not an architect's job."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.762166772526513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with Pete. Did we fly? No, I think the first trips were within the department and it was there. There were sites where volunteers were working, actually built two schools, two schools or three schools, for the same volunteers in different communities they were working in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you went out, when you go to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went out. We went out once. One time we went out, we surveyed. Oh, I know. We went out and we surveyed for a water line, that might have been the first trip that we had made, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not an architect's job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it is, if you can do a survey, and I can't. But he could so. So we went out. We did. It's the first trip out to this area was actually with my roommate to survey for a water line. And then eventually we went back and and we looked at a site for a school and I designed the school and then went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was relatively close to Medellin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.180185302807237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we went out. We went out once. One time we went out, we surveyed. Oh, I know. We went out and we surveyed for a water line, that might have been the first trip that we had made, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not an architect's job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it is, if you can do a survey, and I can't. But he could so. So we went out. We did. It's the first trip out to this area was actually with my roommate to survey for a water line. And then eventually we went back and and we looked at a site for a school and I designed the school and then went out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was relatively close to Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, two hours by train, one hour by bus, 40 minutes by horse or so. That's relatively close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't carry your horse on the bus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8273892627249835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, two hours by train, one hour by bus, 40 minutes by horse or so. That's relatively close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't carry your horse on the bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't carry, no, no. They had a horse at the other end. Then went out and, you know, helped them lay out the foundations for where the school and then the community did the work with the, you know, the volunteers helping them get their organization. And we had, I don't know how many times we met, but our group of architects and engineers met in Bogota several times, just as they get together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps. How are you doing? What are you doing? What are the issues? What are the problems and what's working? What's not working? And one of the times that we were there, we went to, I think it was the University of the Andes, but one of the universities in Bogota, where they have what they call the CINVA Center, where they had developed what they call a CINVA-Ram press, which is a machine, a hand operated press, to make building blocks from soil, soil and cement blocks. And for the most part, that's what was used in constructing these schools. They would, the government would send a machine, one of these lock presses, out and then people would go around digging up the soil and make the blocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first part of the project was producing a thousand blocks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.256036126820967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Peace Corps. How are you doing? What are you doing? What are the issues? What are the problems and what's working? What's not working? And one of the times that we were there, we went to, I think it was the University of the Andes, but one of the universities in Bogota, where they have what they call the CINVA Center, where they had developed what they call a CINVA-Ram press, which is a machine, a hand operated press, to make building blocks from soil, soil and cement blocks. And for the most part, that's what was used in constructing these schools. They would, the government would send a machine, one of these lock presses, out and then people would go around digging up the soil and make the blocks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first part of the project was producing a thousand blocks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Producing, yeah, whatever it was. And they'd go out and see all these blocks lying out there curing. And then they would build. And they were about the size today of a concrete block that we're familiar with. And the interesting, the fun thing about it was that the blocks took on the color of whatever the local soil was. So the buildings were very much colored by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reddish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, I mean, if it was clay, it was reddish. If it was not, it would be gray or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like with this first visit you mentioned, you were helping lay out the site. Once construction began, did you return to that same site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.506706807578852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Producing, yeah, whatever it was. And they'd go out and see all these blocks lying out there curing. And then they would build. And they were about the size today of a concrete block that we're familiar with. And the interesting, the fun thing about it was that the blocks took on the color of whatever the local soil was. So the buildings were very much colored by."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reddish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, I mean, if it was clay, it was reddish. If it was not, it would be gray or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like with this first visit you mentioned, you were helping lay out the site. Once construction began, did you return to that same site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I went out a couple of times. I never, interestingly enough, I never saw a completed building. A completed building. I think they had begun, they were initiated after I'd been in country for quite a while, and the process took long enough. And I never, I mean, I got back to the site several times, but never when one was finished. I mean, I left before they were actually finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the follow-up visits kind of quality control?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7852297861987245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, I mean, if it was clay, it was reddish. If it was not, it would be gray or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like with this first visit you mentioned, you were helping lay out the site. Once construction began, did you return to that same site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I went out a couple of times. I never, interestingly enough, I never saw a completed building. A completed building. I think they had begun, they were initiated after I'd been in country for quite a while, and the process took long enough. And I never, I mean, I got back to the site several times, but never when one was finished. I mean, I left before they were actually finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the follow-up visits kind of quality control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think honestly was more to get out to the country and see the sights. But just, you know, check on the building. And I liked the volunteers with whom I was working. The program was designed that way. And the people, the Colombians that they worked with, were a lot of fun. And so it's nice to meet, you know, get together with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On these visits, usually you would stay overnight in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0946997624430272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I went out a couple of times. I never, interestingly enough, I never saw a completed building. A completed building. I think they had begun, they were initiated after I'd been in country for quite a while, and the process took long enough. And I never, I mean, I got back to the site several times, but never when one was finished. I mean, I left before they were actually finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the follow-up visits kind of quality control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think honestly was more to get out to the country and see the sights. But just, you know, check on the building. And I liked the volunteers with whom I was working. The program was designed that way. And the people, the Colombians that they worked with, were a lot of fun. And so it's nice to meet, you know, get together with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On these visits, usually you would stay overnight in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd stay overnight, stay overnight with the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So we're going through the first year now. You begin, you're working still, you're working in Medellin at the office."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4385552916033637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I think honestly was more to get out to the country and see the sights. But just, you know, check on the building. And I liked the volunteers with whom I was working. The program was designed that way. And the people, the Colombians that they worked with, were a lot of fun. And so it's nice to meet, you know, get together with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On these visits, usually you would stay overnight in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd stay overnight, stay overnight with the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So we're going through the first year now. You begin, you're working still, you're working in Medellin at the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And once a week, once a month, you go out to a site? Any pattern particularly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.820616990670404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd stay overnight, stay overnight with the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So we're going through the first year now. You begin, you're working still, you're working in Medellin at the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And once a week, once a month, you go out to a site? Any pattern particularly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a couple of times a month, go to different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who decides where you're going to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.245129989633782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And once a week, once a month, you go out to a site? Any pattern particularly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a couple of times a month, go to different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who decides where you're going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Based on what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.716811099593092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe a couple of times a month, go to different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who decides where you're going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Based on what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Based on communications with the volunteers, finding out what, how the project was progressing. Also, well then also going out and seeing other sites. I mean, I went to a whole variety of different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they communicate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.240901221770102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Based on what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Based on communications with the volunteers, finding out what, how the project was progressing. Also, well then also going out and seeing other sites. I mean, I went to a whole variety of different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think communication. I don't remember much by phone. So it was probably written. Sometimes probably through the Peace Corps office. And I think, I mean, the requests from volunteers and other places could have come from the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though this was, you were working for a Colombian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.823223579744558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Based on communications with the volunteers, finding out what, how the project was progressing. Also, well then also going out and seeing other sites. I mean, I went to a whole variety of different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they communicate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think communication. I don't remember much by phone. So it was probably written. Sometimes probably through the Peace Corps office. And I think, I mean, the requests from volunteers and other places could have come from the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though this was, you were working for a Colombian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this, the office that I worked with was charged with doing work in one state, department, and I did some projects in other places. And I don't remember exactly if the somehow the volunteers in those places got to me through the Peace Corps office or through a volunteer leader or somebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But because within the country there were not that many Peace Corps architectural engineers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.470248421938397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think communication. I don't remember much by phone. So it was probably written. Sometimes probably through the Peace Corps office. And I think, I mean, the requests from volunteers and other places could have come from the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though this was, you were working for a Colombian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this, the office that I worked with was charged with doing work in one state, department, and I did some projects in other places. And I don't remember exactly if the somehow the volunteers in those places got to me through the Peace Corps office or through a volunteer leader or somebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But because within the country there were not that many Peace Corps architectural engineers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there weren't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that under the Alliance for Progress, there were considerable number of these projects contemplated, in the works."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.855831579931552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this, the office that I worked with was charged with doing work in one state, department, and I did some projects in other places. And I don't remember exactly if the somehow the volunteers in those places got to me through the Peace Corps office or through a volunteer leader or somebody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But because within the country there were not that many Peace Corps architectural engineers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there weren't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that under the Alliance for Progress, there were considerable number of these projects contemplated, in the works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, I did the schools in Antioquia, in the Department of Antioquia, which was, of which Medellin was the capital. I also did a school in the Choco, which is a Pacific coast department. There were volunteers there, and they were working with some teachers. They wanted to build a school. So I went out there and I, you know, did the school out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say you did a school, I mean, you did the survey?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2842573110350575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there weren't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that under the Alliance for Progress, there were considerable number of these projects contemplated, in the works."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, I did the schools in Antioquia, in the Department of Antioquia, which was, of which Medellin was the capital. I also did a school in the Choco, which is a Pacific coast department. There were volunteers there, and they were working with some teachers. They wanted to build a school. So I went out there and I, you know, did the school out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say you did a school, I mean, you did the survey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah, I designed a school out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now was your design and therefore approval needed before it could work its way through the ministry?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.760285901150064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, I did the schools in Antioquia, in the Department of Antioquia, which was, of which Medellin was the capital. I also did a school in the Choco, which is a Pacific coast department. There were volunteers there, and they were working with some teachers. They wanted to build a school. So I went out there and I, you know, did the school out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say you did a school, I mean, you did the survey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah, I designed a school out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now was your design and therefore approval needed before it could work its way through the ministry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even aware it had to go to the ministry. I think it was just, I mean, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the one, you were the man, so you went out there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.876896174259337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even aware it had to go to the ministry. I think it was just, I mean, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the one, you were the man, so you went out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't even. You know, that's an interesting question. I have no idea what the process was after I said, here are the drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they then had a, you know, I'm making a leap, that the volunteers at a site worked with a counterpart from the, a Colombian counterpart from the coffee federation. Somehow, between them and their counterpart and whatever officials were in the town, they conveyed the request and they got the money and the materials. I think that was the easy part. I think the harder part was getting teachers to be assigned to the schools once they were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said once you signed off on the drawings, you handed them in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.52988463806593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't even. You know, that's an interesting question. I have no idea what the process was after I said, here are the drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they then had a, you know, I'm making a leap, that the volunteers at a site worked with a counterpart from the, a Colombian counterpart from the coffee federation. Somehow, between them and their counterpart and whatever officials were in the town, they conveyed the request and they got the money and the materials. I think that was the easy part. I think the harder part was getting teachers to be assigned to the schools once they were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said once you signed off on the drawings, you handed them in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gave them to the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you left them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.255427375628811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they then had a, you know, I'm making a leap, that the volunteers at a site worked with a counterpart from the, a Colombian counterpart from the coffee federation. Somehow, between them and their counterpart and whatever officials were in the town, they conveyed the request and they got the money and the materials. I think that was the easy part. I think the harder part was getting teachers to be assigned to the schools once they were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said once you signed off on the drawings, you handed them in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gave them to the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you left them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I gave them to the volunteers, which was, you know, giving them to the community, but through the volunteer on the site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. OK. Yeah. It didn't go through your office in Medellin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.0615859729209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gave them to the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you left them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I gave them to the volunteers, which was, you know, giving them to the community, but through the volunteer on the site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. OK. Yeah. It didn't go through your office in Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I mean, I would get advice and you know, some conversations about what we were doing and ways of approaching it, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At a point in the first year, was there a point when you suddenly, well, you thought to yourself, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer working in Colombia. I mean, it actually is happening."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.957317747689888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I gave them to the volunteers, which was, you know, giving them to the community, but through the volunteer on the site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. OK. Yeah. It didn't go through your office in Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I mean, I would get advice and you know, some conversations about what we were doing and ways of approaching it, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At a point in the first year, was there a point when you suddenly, well, you thought to yourself, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer working in Colombia. I mean, it actually is happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know when again when that happened, but yeah, it just is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you feel within after about six months, you would really started to become comfortable with the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.730353052988764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I mean, I would get advice and you know, some conversations about what we were doing and ways of approaching it, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At a point in the first year, was there a point when you suddenly, well, you thought to yourself, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer working in Colombia. I mean, it actually is happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know when again when that happened, but yeah, it just is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you feel within after about six months, you would really started to become comfortable with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six or seven months, eight months. I think I finally, I don't know if I was sitting on a bus. Maybe I was. Maybe that's what it was. I was sitting on a bus, waiting for the bus to start moving in the bus station, and I suddenly realized I was unconsciously eavesdropping on conversations that were going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this period. Well, going out into the village, did you encounter political problems or corruption problems? I would think if there's money coming in for construction, that would be a temptation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.589281169987515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know when again when that happened, but yeah, it just is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you feel within after about six months, you would really started to become comfortable with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six or seven months, eight months. I think I finally, I don't know if I was sitting on a bus. Maybe I was. Maybe that's what it was. I was sitting on a bus, waiting for the bus to start moving in the bus station, and I suddenly realized I was unconsciously eavesdropping on conversations that were going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this period. Well, going out into the village, did you encounter political problems or corruption problems? I would think if there's money coming in for construction, that would be a temptation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had. No. I mean, if there was anything, I didn't know about it and I don't remember having conversations about it with the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were sort of insulated against it because of your role."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.432534633319461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six or seven months, eight months. I think I finally, I don't know if I was sitting on a bus. Maybe I was. Maybe that's what it was. I was sitting on a bus, waiting for the bus to start moving in the bus station, and I suddenly realized I was unconsciously eavesdropping on conversations that were going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this period. Well, going out into the village, did you encounter political problems or corruption problems? I would think if there's money coming in for construction, that would be a temptation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had. No. I mean, if there was anything, I didn't know about it and I don't remember having conversations about it with the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were sort of insulated against it because of your role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think, you know, the conversations that we had were more like, you know, Don so- and-so is really being pigheaded about this thing and or so-and-so is difficult to work with, so-and-so is really easy to work with, and he's really helping us get the thing done. You know, those kinds of conversations, but I'm not aware of any of the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you disappointed you didn't have a larger role to play? I'm not denigrating what you did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.369482925910512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had. No. I mean, if there was anything, I didn't know about it and I don't remember having conversations about it with the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were sort of insulated against it because of your role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think, you know, the conversations that we had were more like, you know, Don so- and-so is really being pigheaded about this thing and or so-and-so is difficult to work with, so-and-so is really easy to work with, and he's really helping us get the thing done. You know, those kinds of conversations, but I'm not aware of any of the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you disappointed you didn't have a larger role to play? I'm not denigrating what you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not particularly. I mean, my disappointment was not seeing the projects finished. I mean, a lot of projects that I saw that were mostly done and not finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's, we're coming now to the end of the first year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.410536584345014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think, you know, the conversations that we had were more like, you know, Don so- and-so is really being pigheaded about this thing and or so-and-so is difficult to work with, so-and-so is really easy to work with, and he's really helping us get the thing done. You know, those kinds of conversations, but I'm not aware of any of the others."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you disappointed you didn't have a larger role to play? I'm not denigrating what you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not particularly. I mean, my disappointment was not seeing the projects finished. I mean, a lot of projects that I saw that were mostly done and not finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's, we're coming now to the end of the first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there any break between first and second year? How many months did you serve altogether, because you were training for a long time, including in-country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.345040649272237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not particularly. I mean, my disappointment was not seeing the projects finished. I mean, a lot of projects that I saw that were mostly done and not finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's, we're coming now to the end of the first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there any break between first and second year? How many months did you serve altogether, because you were training for a long time, including in-country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I left. We left Medellin in February of '66. Got there probably in, well, I got to Colombia in the spring of '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so shy of 20 months."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.161156276969152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there any break between first and second year? How many months did you serve altogether, because you were training for a long time, including in-country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I left. We left Medellin in February of '66. Got there probably in, well, I got to Colombia in the spring of '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so shy of 20 months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Year and a half at least in the country, a year and a half in Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's pretty clear, I think. Is there anything further about the particular job you were doing? Did it change?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.067951418854612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I left. We left Medellin in February of '66. Got there probably in, well, I got to Colombia in the spring of '64."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so shy of 20 months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Year and a half at least in the country, a year and a half in Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's pretty clear, I think. Is there anything further about the particular job you were doing? Did it change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't. I mean, it didn't change. I mean, I think, I mean, the variety of things that I got to do besides the schools. I did a church in another community. A volunteer had a community and they wanted to build a church and came to me and I said, sure, you know, I designed this church and I've got pictures of it under construction, but not completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, it's not also CINVA-Ram, is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.74216824317179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Year and a half at least in the country, a year and a half in Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's pretty clear, I think. Is there anything further about the particular job you were doing? Did it change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't. I mean, it didn't change. I mean, I think, I mean, the variety of things that I got to do besides the schools. I did a church in another community. A volunteer had a community and they wanted to build a church and came to me and I said, sure, you know, I designed this church and I've got pictures of it under construction, but not completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, it's not also CINVA-Ram, is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was brick. Yeah, masonry and wood. And then at the time, Sam Farr's father and a sister had come to Colombia to visit him. Maureen, who was absolutely wonderful in terms of her mobility through the society and the bureaucracy, had become very good friends with the son of a former president of Colombia, Alfonso Ospina. And they had a cattle ranch in another department west, north of, a very wealthy family, north of where we were in Medellin. Sam's sister fell from a horse when they were visiting, and she subsequently died. Very, very tragic.\n\nAnd but Alfonso then funded a school, wanted to build a school for his workers and named it after her. And you know, and I designed it. I don't know if it was ever built. It's very strange. So, but anyway, but I went up there and spent some time there and designed the school for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just because of all the connections involved? And things were loose enough or flexible enough that you could do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.491298047968655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it didn't. I mean, it didn't change. I mean, I think, I mean, the variety of things that I got to do besides the schools. I did a church in another community. A volunteer had a community and they wanted to build a church and came to me and I said, sure, you know, I designed this church and I've got pictures of it under construction, but not completed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, it's not also CINVA-Ram, is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was brick. Yeah, masonry and wood. And then at the time, Sam Farr's father and a sister had come to Colombia to visit him. Maureen, who was absolutely wonderful in terms of her mobility through the society and the bureaucracy, had become very good friends with the son of a former president of Colombia, Alfonso Ospina. And they had a cattle ranch in another department west, north of, a very wealthy family, north of where we were in Medellin. Sam's sister fell from a horse when they were visiting, and she subsequently died. Very, very tragic.\n\nAnd but Alfonso then funded a school, wanted to build a school for his workers and named it after her. And you know, and I designed it. I don't know if it was ever built. It's very strange. So, but anyway, but I went up there and spent some time there and designed the school for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just because of all the connections involved? And things were loose enough or flexible enough that you could do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a sense that you were accountable to anyone? You know, you had an office, you were working."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.768108942187394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was brick. Yeah, masonry and wood. And then at the time, Sam Farr's father and a sister had come to Colombia to visit him. Maureen, who was absolutely wonderful in terms of her mobility through the society and the bureaucracy, had become very good friends with the son of a former president of Colombia, Alfonso Ospina. And they had a cattle ranch in another department west, north of, a very wealthy family, north of where we were in Medellin. Sam's sister fell from a horse when they were visiting, and she subsequently died. Very, very tragic.\n\nAnd but Alfonso then funded a school, wanted to build a school for his workers and named it after her. And you know, and I designed it. I don't know if it was ever built. It's very strange. So, but anyway, but I went up there and spent some time there and designed the school for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just because of all the connections involved? And things were loose enough or flexible enough that you could do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a sense that you were accountable to anyone? You know, you had an office, you were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I think. No. No, I didn't. I mean, you know, I was doing monthly reports and we had a director and the Peace Corps office and the architect with whom I was working, for whom I was working. Yeah, the local architect was, I think he was pretty loose about everything and there wasn't any real sense of, you know, wanted to know what we were doing and but no real strong control over things. I'd say, Raul, you know, Thursday, I'm going off to Yali, I'll be back in the office on Monday or Tuesday. He'd say, that's OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at any point, let's go into the second year, was there a break between the first and second year? You must have had some leave time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0756766024304376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a sense that you were accountable to anyone? You know, you had an office, you were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I think. No. No, I didn't. I mean, you know, I was doing monthly reports and we had a director and the Peace Corps office and the architect with whom I was working, for whom I was working. Yeah, the local architect was, I think he was pretty loose about everything and there wasn't any real sense of, you know, wanted to know what we were doing and but no real strong control over things. I'd say, Raul, you know, Thursday, I'm going off to Yali, I'll be back in the office on Monday or Tuesday. He'd say, that's OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at any point, let's go into the second year, was there a break between the first and second year? You must have had some leave time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, yeah, I mean, there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, the Peace Corps has it built in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9844672186974446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. I did take a vacation, but I don't remember when that was. But yeah, the couple of us that were in. Actually one of the people, one of the volunteers in Medellin was friendly with, was still very, very friendly with one of the volunteers from Venezuela. I think that's how it worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, I remember the three of us took a trip, an overland trip, to Quito from Medellin to Quito, which was a lot of fun and very interesting. Lots of stories about that thing, too. And then one of interesting parts about that was that on the way, wherever we stopped, made a couple of overnight stops we made was finding the local Peace Corps volunteers and crashing on their floors, which was perfectly natural?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Normal custom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes. I mean, so that was the big, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first year, had you been communicating back to friends and family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.316074687441605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, I remember the three of us took a trip, an overland trip, to Quito from Medellin to Quito, which was a lot of fun and very interesting. Lots of stories about that thing, too. And then one of interesting parts about that was that on the way, wherever we stopped, made a couple of overnight stops we made was finding the local Peace Corps volunteers and crashing on their floors, which was perfectly natural?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Normal custom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes. I mean, so that was the big, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first year, had you been communicating back to friends and family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, writing letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly to family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.684527430490672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes. I mean, so that was the big, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first year, had you been communicating back to friends and family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, writing letters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mostly to family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly to family, a couple of friends. But you know, mostly family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do they still exist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.5487992969020645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly to family, a couple of friends. But you know, mostly family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do they still exist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think they do. I think I've got them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other interesting thing was, we had a telephone in our apartment, which just sort of came there. I talked to my parents once or twice, in maybe the two years I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No family crises."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.943110329891183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I think they do. I think I've got them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other interesting thing was, we had a telephone in our apartment, which just sort of came there. I talked to my parents once or twice, in maybe the two years I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No family crises."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Just a call Sunday morning or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, going in. There's a break and you're sort of going into your second year and it'll be 10 months or whatever. Do you recall the break, and at that point probably you're aware that you're not going to be in Colombia permanently? There's an end. And sometimes some volunteers will then say, well, before I go, I really would like to at least achieve this or get this done."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.381233699879092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other interesting thing was, we had a telephone in our apartment, which just sort of came there. I talked to my parents once or twice, in maybe the two years I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No family crises."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Just a call Sunday morning or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, going in. There's a break and you're sort of going into your second year and it'll be 10 months or whatever. Do you recall the break, and at that point probably you're aware that you're not going to be in Colombia permanently? There's an end. And sometimes some volunteers will then say, well, before I go, I really would like to at least achieve this or get this done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I had the feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you're aware of going into your second year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.868037444310103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Just a call Sunday morning or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, going in. There's a break and you're sort of going into your second year and it'll be 10 months or whatever. Do you recall the break, and at that point probably you're aware that you're not going to be in Colombia permanently? There's an end. And sometimes some volunteers will then say, well, before I go, I really would like to at least achieve this or get this done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I had the feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you're aware of going into your second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. But you know, and I know we had a. I should say, no, we probably had a conference, you know, went to Bogota and all met at the end of the first year. And we had one of these little mini get togethers. Yeah, what's happening, what's going on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you got together, how did your experience match up to that of the others from your training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.408930493677891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I had the feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you're aware of going into your second year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. But you know, and I know we had a. I should say, no, we probably had a conference, you know, went to Bogota and all met at the end of the first year. And we had one of these little mini get togethers. Yeah, what's happening, what's going on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you got together, how did your experience match up to that of the others from your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm just going to say probably pretty similar in terms of the kinds of, relatively speaking, the kinds of work we were doing and who we were working with and how the work was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there weren't people who said, you know, it's impossible to work with these people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.009922770753212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. But you know, and I know we had a. I should say, no, we probably had a conference, you know, went to Bogota and all met at the end of the first year. And we had one of these little mini get togethers. Yeah, what's happening, what's going on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you got together, how did your experience match up to that of the others from your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm just going to say probably pretty similar in terms of the kinds of, relatively speaking, the kinds of work we were doing and who we were working with and how the work was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there weren't people who said, you know, it's impossible to work with these people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And no one went home that you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.677691967503568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm just going to say probably pretty similar in terms of the kinds of, relatively speaking, the kinds of work we were doing and who we were working with and how the work was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there weren't people who said, you know, it's impossible to work with these people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And no one went home that you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our group. No, no one went home from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In relation to the second year, I was thinking whether was there any point that you thought maybe it would be good if I could train a Colombian to be doing some of what I'm doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.30854663055952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And no one went home that you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our group. No, no one went home from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In relation to the second year, I was thinking whether was there any point that you thought maybe it would be good if I could train a Colombian to be doing some of what I'm doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's a very good question, because somewhere during my second year, I don't remember what the timing was. My roommate's time was up. So he was getting ready to leave, but there was another fellow that came to work in the office after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8983851450661335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our group. No, no one went home from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In relation to the second year, I was thinking whether was there any point that you thought maybe it would be good if I could train a Colombian to be doing some of what I'm doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's a very good question, because somewhere during my second year, I don't remember what the timing was. My roommate's time was up. So he was getting ready to leave, but there was another fellow that came to work in the office after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another Peace Corps volunteer, yeah, another architect. And so Peter left. And I mean, Bill came before Peter left and then Peter left and Bill was there and then I left, and I don't know what happened after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the continuity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.553761272295704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. That's a very good question, because somewhere during my second year, I don't remember what the timing was. My roommate's time was up. So he was getting ready to leave, but there was another fellow that came to work in the office after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another Peace Corps volunteer, yeah, another architect. And so Peter left. And I mean, Bill came before Peter left and then Peter left and Bill was there and then I left, and I don't know what happened after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the continuity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was continuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Bill moved in with you I assume."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.281956969217449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another Peace Corps volunteer, yeah, another architect. And so Peter left. And I mean, Bill came before Peter left and then Peter left and Bill was there and then I left, and I don't know what happened after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the continuity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was continuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Bill moved in with you I assume."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he moved in. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now as you're coming near the end, oh, another. During your time there, were you aware of political problems in the country? Did they impinge at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9799521880193875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was continuity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Bill moved in with you I assume."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he moved in. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now as you're coming near the end, oh, another. During your time there, were you aware of political problems in the country? Did they impinge at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't impinge. I remember, and I don't remember exactly when it was, although if I look at my, I don't think it'll be on the film all. I remember one evening being out in Medellin and martial law has been declared, estado de citia, martial law, and I saw troops and tanks in the street in Medellin and I looked at them and I was kind of looking closely and my thought was, Christ, this stuff all came from the United States. Yeah, but that didn't last. I don't even remember what the issue was. I don't know if it was around an election or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't feel threatened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.755502431132653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he moved in. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now as you're coming near the end, oh, another. During your time there, were you aware of political problems in the country? Did they impinge at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't impinge. I remember, and I don't remember exactly when it was, although if I look at my, I don't think it'll be on the film all. I remember one evening being out in Medellin and martial law has been declared, estado de citia, martial law, and I saw troops and tanks in the street in Medellin and I looked at them and I was kind of looking closely and my thought was, Christ, this stuff all came from the United States. Yeah, but that didn't last. I don't even remember what the issue was. I don't know if it was around an election or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't feel threatened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't feel threatened at all. Not at all. It was interesting. I just had this sense of something's going on here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps office in Bogota in touch at all about what was going on or giving advice or suggesting an evacuation plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.617224923480725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't impinge. I remember, and I don't remember exactly when it was, although if I look at my, I don't think it'll be on the film all. I remember one evening being out in Medellin and martial law has been declared, estado de citia, martial law, and I saw troops and tanks in the street in Medellin and I looked at them and I was kind of looking closely and my thought was, Christ, this stuff all came from the United States. Yeah, but that didn't last. I don't even remember what the issue was. I don't know if it was around an election or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't feel threatened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't feel threatened at all. Not at all. It was interesting. I just had this sense of something's going on here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps office in Bogota in touch at all about what was going on or giving advice or suggesting an evacuation plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything like that happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.574694359423027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't feel threatened at all. Not at all. It was interesting. I just had this sense of something's going on here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps office in Bogota in touch at all about what was going on or giving advice or suggesting an evacuation plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything like that happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The whole time I was there, I mean, there were, there was, again, you know that we had discussion about there was a guerilla movement that was nascent and going on, but it wasn't here. It was somewhere out there in the jungles or whatever was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you went out to the boonies to do the site visits, did you get any sense of unrest?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.638549288247807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything like that happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The whole time I was there, I mean, there were, there was, again, you know that we had discussion about there was a guerilla movement that was nascent and going on, but it wasn't here. It was somewhere out there in the jungles or whatever was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you went out to the boonies to do the site visits, did you get any sense of unrest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I didn't have any sense of it. Of course, just wasn't in the right places, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for the most part, they were communities that had coalesced enough to be able to commit to a building project, which may say something about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.82061032027534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The whole time I was there, I mean, there were, there was, again, you know that we had discussion about there was a guerilla movement that was nascent and going on, but it wasn't here. It was somewhere out there in the jungles or whatever was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you went out to the boonies to do the site visits, did you get any sense of unrest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I didn't have any sense of it. Of course, just wasn't in the right places, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for the most part, they were communities that had coalesced enough to be able to commit to a building project, which may say something about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're coming to the end of your tour, what are your feelings about what you had accomplished, whether it had been worth it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.02290035586149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I didn't have any sense of it. Of course, just wasn't in the right places, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, for the most part, they were communities that had coalesced enough to be able to commit to a building project, which may say something about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're coming to the end of your tour, what are your feelings about what you had accomplished, whether it had been worth it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I felt that it had been worth it. I mean, I certainly enjoyed my time there, and I felt that professionally I had gotten a lot of experience that I never would have gotten if I had just gone to work in somebody's office right out of college here in the States. There's a lot of, you know, the opportunity to design and see built or at least started a lot of different projects, different types of projects. And I had responsibility for doing them. I'm not sure I knew much more right, but I certainly had a sense of accomplishment, both professionally and as well as working for the people that I was, you know, working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now with this fabulous experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.358778173179433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're coming to the end of your tour, what are your feelings about what you had accomplished, whether it had been worth it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think I felt that it had been worth it. I mean, I certainly enjoyed my time there, and I felt that professionally I had gotten a lot of experience that I never would have gotten if I had just gone to work in somebody's office right out of college here in the States. There's a lot of, you know, the opportunity to design and see built or at least started a lot of different projects, different types of projects. And I had responsibility for doing them. I'm not sure I knew much more right, but I certainly had a sense of accomplishment, both professionally and as well as working for the people that I was, you know, working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now with this fabulous experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now with this fabulous experience, I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To face the draft."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.56639280639436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now with this fabulous experience, I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To face the draft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To face the draft, right. I mean, one of the interesting, I mean, there are so many interesting little little things that happen, as you know, when you're a Peace Corps volunteer. One of them was going home. And so we had a choice of, at that time, of flying from Medellin to Miami, either on a jet or on a Super G Constellation or whatever. And if you took the Super G Constellation, it was a slower trip. It was less costly and you get the difference in cash between the two tickets. So guess what? But that was kind of fun because there we were in the back section of this, going to Miami, and I don't think Maureen was there. Sam was there, a couple of other volunteers, and we were just having a party going back to Miami."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I came home, and it was. Vietnam is happening and I don't want any part of that particularly. And I went up and applied for a job in the Army Corps of Engineers in Chicago, and I was hired as an architect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Colombia, ere you aware of what was going on with American foreign policy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.518214229327066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To face the draft, right. I mean, one of the interesting, I mean, there are so many interesting little little things that happen, as you know, when you're a Peace Corps volunteer. One of them was going home. And so we had a choice of, at that time, of flying from Medellin to Miami, either on a jet or on a Super G Constellation or whatever. And if you took the Super G Constellation, it was a slower trip. It was less costly and you get the difference in cash between the two tickets. So guess what? But that was kind of fun because there we were in the back section of this, going to Miami, and I don't think Maureen was there. Sam was there, a couple of other volunteers, and we were just having a party going back to Miami."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I came home, and it was. Vietnam is happening and I don't want any part of that particularly. And I went up and applied for a job in the Army Corps of Engineers in Chicago, and I was hired as an architect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Colombia, ere you aware of what was going on with American foreign policy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, what I read in the newspapers and in Time magazine. We got Time magazine over there. And I think it was in Spanish, but I usually picked up a copy of Time almost every week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if people you worked with, Colombians, were aware of the Vietnam War or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.575793588141185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I came home, and it was. Vietnam is happening and I don't want any part of that particularly. And I went up and applied for a job in the Army Corps of Engineers in Chicago, and I was hired as an architect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Colombia, ere you aware of what was going on with American foreign policy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, what I read in the newspapers and in Time magazine. We got Time magazine over there. And I think it was in Spanish, but I usually picked up a copy of Time almost every week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if people you worked with, Colombians, were aware of the Vietnam War or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. I don't remember at all. I don't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One question about Medellin, of course, because it later became prominent in the drug trade. Were there any inklings of that or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.417548431267981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, what I read in the newspapers and in Time magazine. We got Time magazine over there. And I think it was in Spanish, but I usually picked up a copy of Time almost every week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember if people you worked with, Colombians, were aware of the Vietnam War or not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. I don't remember at all. I don't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One question about Medellin, of course, because it later became prominent in the drug trade. Were there any inklings of that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not when I was there. I mean, I'm fond of saying that the biggest cash crop at that time was coffee. And it was, personally, it was a great disappointment to me what happened and I still don't quite understand it because out of all, in my understanding, of all the other countries in Latin America, Colombia when I was there in the sixties, probably had ten centers of population of 100,000 or more, which is, you know, a good size. I mean, Evanston is 78,000. I mean, it's a good middle. And they had a tremendous middle class. I mean, it's true, there was a lot of rural poverty. There was a lot of urban poverty, but you had three cities. It wasn't like some of these other countries where you've got one city that continually grows because everybody's coming into those urban areas. I mean, Medellin was a half a million people. Bogota was probably a million. Cali at that time was 300,000. So these are three really good sized cities. Plus a lot of other cities scattered around the country, there is a big middle class. And I think we all felt very, very hopeful for the country, that there was this great middle class, that community development's going on, you know, and stuff. It all went to hell in a handbasket for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. From the time you left, how long did Peace Corps stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.241720479186645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. I don't remember at all. I don't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One question about Medellin, of course, because it later became prominent in the drug trade. Were there any inklings of that or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not when I was there. I mean, I'm fond of saying that the biggest cash crop at that time was coffee. And it was, personally, it was a great disappointment to me what happened and I still don't quite understand it because out of all, in my understanding, of all the other countries in Latin America, Colombia when I was there in the sixties, probably had ten centers of population of 100,000 or more, which is, you know, a good size. I mean, Evanston is 78,000. I mean, it's a good middle. And they had a tremendous middle class. I mean, it's true, there was a lot of rural poverty. There was a lot of urban poverty, but you had three cities. It wasn't like some of these other countries where you've got one city that continually grows because everybody's coming into those urban areas. I mean, Medellin was a half a million people. Bogota was probably a million. Cali at that time was 300,000. So these are three really good sized cities. Plus a lot of other cities scattered around the country, there is a big middle class. And I think we all felt very, very hopeful for the country, that there was this great middle class, that community development's going on, you know, and stuff. It all went to hell in a handbasket for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. From the time you left, how long did Peace Corps stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, I want to say '82 maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was there continuously through the sixties."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.157467199096272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not when I was there. I mean, I'm fond of saying that the biggest cash crop at that time was coffee. And it was, personally, it was a great disappointment to me what happened and I still don't quite understand it because out of all, in my understanding, of all the other countries in Latin America, Colombia when I was there in the sixties, probably had ten centers of population of 100,000 or more, which is, you know, a good size. I mean, Evanston is 78,000. I mean, it's a good middle. And they had a tremendous middle class. I mean, it's true, there was a lot of rural poverty. There was a lot of urban poverty, but you had three cities. It wasn't like some of these other countries where you've got one city that continually grows because everybody's coming into those urban areas. I mean, Medellin was a half a million people. Bogota was probably a million. Cali at that time was 300,000. So these are three really good sized cities. Plus a lot of other cities scattered around the country, there is a big middle class. And I think we all felt very, very hopeful for the country, that there was this great middle class, that community development's going on, you know, and stuff. It all went to hell in a handbasket for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. From the time you left, how long did Peace Corps stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, I want to say '82 maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was there continuously through the sixties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was there continuously through the sixties, maybe up until '82."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. Few questions following up. You came back to Chicago. You went to work for the Corps of Engineers. Were you able to maintain any contact with friends back in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.174963554551413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, I want to say '82 maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was there continuously through the sixties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was there continuously through the sixties, maybe up until '82."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. Few questions following up. You came back to Chicago. You went to work for the Corps of Engineers. Were you able to maintain any contact with friends back in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. A couple of Christmas cards here and there, and it just sort of petered out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to make use of your bilinguality? I mean, it must have been a curiosity to come back into the uni-lingual of American society."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.7499595050571255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was there continuously through the sixties, maybe up until '82."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. Few questions following up. You came back to Chicago. You went to work for the Corps of Engineers. Were you able to maintain any contact with friends back in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. A couple of Christmas cards here and there, and it just sort of petered out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to make use of your bilinguality? I mean, it must have been a curiosity to come back into the uni-lingual of American society."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in 1966, there was not as much Spanish being spoken in this country as there is today. So that's kind of. But yeah, buy you know, I started to travel. I went to Mexico, went to Spain several times. Went to Israel and had a conversation with somebody who spoke Ladino. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But within the work environment here, the fact that you knew Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.277732783396806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. A couple of Christmas cards here and there, and it just sort of petered out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to make use of your bilinguality? I mean, it must have been a curiosity to come back into the uni-lingual of American society."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in 1966, there was not as much Spanish being spoken in this country as there is today. So that's kind of. But yeah, buy you know, I started to travel. I went to Mexico, went to Spain several times. Went to Israel and had a conversation with somebody who spoke Ladino. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But within the work environment here, the fact that you knew Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And it really hasn't been until maybe the last, until the nineties, really when I run across situations where I could use the Spanish in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's obvious you've also been able to stay in touch with some of the people who served with you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.864147537107563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in 1966, there was not as much Spanish being spoken in this country as there is today. So that's kind of. But yeah, buy you know, I started to travel. I went to Mexico, went to Spain several times. Went to Israel and had a conversation with somebody who spoke Ladino. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But within the work environment here, the fact that you knew Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And it really hasn't been until maybe the last, until the nineties, really when I run across situations where I could use the Spanish in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's obvious you've also been able to stay in touch with some of the people who served with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned that recently you made a trip back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.293497263452847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And it really hasn't been until maybe the last, until the nineties, really when I run across situations where I could use the Spanish in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's obvious you've also been able to stay in touch with some of the people who served with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned that recently you made a trip back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In February 2008, in Cartagena, there was a conference for volunteers that had served in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who organized the conference?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5483302927253857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you mentioned that recently you made a trip back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In February 2008, in Cartagena, there was a conference for volunteers that had served in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who organized the conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a joint effort between the Colombian Embassy, Colombian government through their embassy in Washington, and Friends of Colombia, the organization of returned Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that Peace Corps is currently in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.831478103028206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. In February 2008, in Cartagena, there was a conference for volunteers that had served in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who organized the conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a joint effort between the Colombian Embassy, Colombian government through their embassy in Washington, and Friends of Colombia, the organization of returned Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that Peace Corps is currently in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is not. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0349756700313404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a joint effort between the Colombian Embassy, Colombian government through their embassy in Washington, and Friends of Colombia, the organization of returned Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather that Peace Corps is currently in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is not. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But President Uribe recently sent a letter to the Peace Corps requesting Peace Corps volunteers return to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to the Cartagena conference, was there a sense that this was to be PR, that maybe to bring a little light to the idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2610840778126002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is not. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But President Uribe recently sent a letter to the Peace Corps requesting Peace Corps volunteers return to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to the Cartagena conference, was there a sense that this was to be PR, that maybe to bring a little light to the idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe that was, I don't know if that was overt, but I mean, I think two things happened. First of all, there were over two hundred people that came to the conference from all the States and a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All returned volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5123156420140003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But President Uribe recently sent a letter to the Peace Corps requesting Peace Corps volunteers return to the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going to the Cartagena conference, was there a sense that this was to be PR, that maybe to bring a little light to the idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe that was, I don't know if that was overt, but I mean, I think two things happened. First of all, there were over two hundred people that came to the conference from all the States and a lot of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All returned volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. But I don't know what the total number of returned volunteers was, but they brought family. I mean, kids, friends,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "CIA agents, probably."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1016242494000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. But I don't know what the total number of returned volunteers was, but they brought family. I mean, kids, friends,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "CIA agents, probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I mean, but having 200 people come to that conference and some people like myself haven't been back to Colombia since they served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people were just so overjoyed to be back and to be there. And so I saw two of the people, two of the other people that were in my group who were there and we reconnected. We sort of, you know, maybe had a little contact, but not a lot. You know, once every 15 years or something. But we reconnected and that was nice. And um, but President Uribe spoke. He came, we had. I guess if we were diplomats, you'd say we had briefings by people in the Colombian government. I mean, we, the defense minister spoke to us about the situation, what's going on in Colombia. We had commerce and we had people from NGOs that spoke about what their programs are, what's going on. So I mean, we had a really big overview of what's happening in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to get to Medellin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4462491660000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I mean, but having 200 people come to that conference and some people like myself haven't been back to Colombia since they served."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people were just so overjoyed to be back and to be there. And so I saw two of the people, two of the other people that were in my group who were there and we reconnected. We sort of, you know, maybe had a little contact, but not a lot. You know, once every 15 years or something. But we reconnected and that was nice. And um, but President Uribe spoke. He came, we had. I guess if we were diplomats, you'd say we had briefings by people in the Colombian government. I mean, we, the defense minister spoke to us about the situation, what's going on in Colombia. We had commerce and we had people from NGOs that spoke about what their programs are, what's going on. So I mean, we had a really big overview of what's happening in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to get to Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. We went, there was a group of us that went to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to being back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.82916574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people were just so overjoyed to be back and to be there. And so I saw two of the people, two of the other people that were in my group who were there and we reconnected. We sort of, you know, maybe had a little contact, but not a lot. You know, once every 15 years or something. But we reconnected and that was nice. And um, but President Uribe spoke. He came, we had. I guess if we were diplomats, you'd say we had briefings by people in the Colombian government. I mean, we, the defense minister spoke to us about the situation, what's going on in Colombia. We had commerce and we had people from NGOs that spoke about what their programs are, what's going on. So I mean, we had a really big overview of what's happening in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to get to Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. We went, there was a group of us that went to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to being back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, you know, it was not that things change. They now have a metro and it's above ground, so it's very obvious. It goes through the center of the city where we used to hang out. And the center of the city where we used to hang out and the street where we used to hang out in the restaurants is a pedestrian, is a pedestrian mall. And where we used to be is now thought of as not the best place to be. And that's moved out to what used to be kind of a little suburban community that was just a little little tiny place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your Spanish when you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.2546286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah. We went, there was a group of us that went to Medellin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your reaction to being back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, you know, it was not that things change. They now have a metro and it's above ground, so it's very obvious. It goes through the center of the city where we used to hang out. And the center of the city where we used to hang out and the street where we used to hang out in the restaurants is a pedestrian, is a pedestrian mall. And where we used to be is now thought of as not the best place to be. And that's moved out to what used to be kind of a little suburban community that was just a little little tiny place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your Spanish when you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About half of my Spanish was fine. Yeah, I mean, I was. Maureen, when she was a volunteer in a community up in the hills above Medellin, had helped her community build a school. They named the school after her and she has been actively involved with that school for quite a while now. I think there was a time during the big drug stuff going on where she was not going there, but now she goes, she goes back, maybe once or twice a year, maybe twice a year. That school is becoming a model for bilingual schools. It's a grammar school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And bilingual being?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.616254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was, you know, it was not that things change. They now have a metro and it's above ground, so it's very obvious. It goes through the center of the city where we used to hang out. And the center of the city where we used to hang out and the street where we used to hang out in the restaurants is a pedestrian, is a pedestrian mall. And where we used to be is now thought of as not the best place to be. And that's moved out to what used to be kind of a little suburban community that was just a little little tiny place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your Spanish when you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About half of my Spanish was fine. Yeah, I mean, I was. Maureen, when she was a volunteer in a community up in the hills above Medellin, had helped her community build a school. They named the school after her and she has been actively involved with that school for quite a while now. I think there was a time during the big drug stuff going on where she was not going there, but now she goes, she goes back, maybe once or twice a year, maybe twice a year. That school is becoming a model for bilingual schools. It's a grammar school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And bilingual being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "English and Spanish. She's done a tremendous job in terms of getting money for the school, for teacher training, for technology. She started one laptop per child in that school. She got, I think it was Hewlett Packard donated a whole bunch of computers and went there, and these kids are, these kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you visited the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.01806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About half of my Spanish was fine. Yeah, I mean, I was. Maureen, when she was a volunteer in a community up in the hills above Medellin, had helped her community build a school. They named the school after her and she has been actively involved with that school for quite a while now. I think there was a time during the big drug stuff going on where she was not going there, but now she goes, she goes back, maybe once or twice a year, maybe twice a year. That school is becoming a model for bilingual schools. It's a grammar school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And bilingual being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "English and Spanish. She's done a tremendous job in terms of getting money for the school, for teacher training, for technology. She started one laptop per child in that school. She got, I think it was Hewlett Packard donated a whole bunch of computers and went there, and these kids are, these kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you visited the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We visited the school. A bunch of us visited the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now is Friends of Colombia now supporting the school or helping?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.14, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know if the organization, but anyway, but the Spanish. So what I wanted to say was that so when we were there, they had a ceremony, you know, looking back on the volunteers in Medellin and the newspaper was there and they interviewed me and I had no problem with it, the conversation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the Spanish came, you know, came back. And well I've been using it, speaking it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so the language has been very useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So sort of to wrap up, what do you think the impact of the Peace Corps service was on your own life? [tape break]"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so the language has been very useful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So sort of to wrap up, what do you think the impact of the Peace Corps service was on your own life? [tape break]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And where they live. So we become much more sensitive to other cultures and to how people get along with each other based on their cultural framework or context, you know, things are just different. And it certainly gave me a desire to travel, which I and we've done a lot of, yeah, a lot of traveling. I love it, you know, going different places. It gave me the language which is, you know, fun and useful. It also. The thing that came to my mind, which is really, I suppose, good or bad, I'm not indifferent to, but I can ignore somebody sitting on the street cross- legged with their hands up and their hat out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, there was just so much of that. I don't know what your experience was in Ghana. There was so much of that going on in the, you know, in the cities in Colombia in the sixties, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you particularly followed Colombian affairs or it's not that easy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And where they live. So we become much more sensitive to other cultures and to how people get along with each other based on their cultural framework or context, you know, things are just different. And it certainly gave me a desire to travel, which I and we've done a lot of, yeah, a lot of traveling. I love it, you know, going different places. It gave me the language which is, you know, fun and useful. It also. The thing that came to my mind, which is really, I suppose, good or bad, I'm not indifferent to, but I can ignore somebody sitting on the street cross- legged with their hands up and their hat out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, there was just so much of that. I don't know what your experience was in Ghana. There was so much of that going on in the, you know, in the cities in Colombia in the sixties, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you particularly followed Colombian affairs or it's not that easy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I have, you know, from time to time. I mean, when I first came back, I subscribed to a magazine, maybe it was Decision, that was published in Latin America. Anyway, it was kind of like a Latin American Time magazine. And there's a lot of, or Colombian Time magazine. And you know, I did from time to time. And it's interesting because I mean, the drug war, that whole drug thing is kind of like, you know, I. Yes, I've seen programs and how it started and everything, but I still don't understand how it got a foothold. And then with all this stuff that's going on in Mexico, I commented to Carol, I said, Mexico sounds like Colombia 20 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But based on your own experience of Colombia, it's the puzzle. It's hard to understand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:579", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, there was just so much of that. I don't know what your experience was in Ghana. There was so much of that going on in the, you know, in the cities in Colombia in the sixties, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you particularly followed Colombian affairs or it's not that easy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I have, you know, from time to time. I mean, when I first came back, I subscribed to a magazine, maybe it was Decision, that was published in Latin America. Anyway, it was kind of like a Latin American Time magazine. And there's a lot of, or Colombian Time magazine. And you know, I did from time to time. And it's interesting because I mean, the drug war, that whole drug thing is kind of like, you know, I. Yes, I've seen programs and how it started and everything, but I still don't understand how it got a foothold. And then with all this stuff that's going on in Mexico, I commented to Carol, I said, Mexico sounds like Colombia 20 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But based on your own experience of Colombia, it's the puzzle. It's hard to understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, maybe next. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you recommend, if a young person came to you today or an old person, would you recommend they join the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00236:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I have, you know, from time to time. I mean, when I first came back, I subscribed to a magazine, maybe it was Decision, that was published in Latin America. Anyway, it was kind of like a Latin American Time magazine. And there's a lot of, or Colombian Time magazine. And you know, I did from time to time. And it's interesting because I mean, the drug war, that whole drug thing is kind of like, you know, I. Yes, I've seen programs and how it started and everything, but I still don't understand how it got a foothold. And then with all this stuff that's going on in Mexico, I commented to Carol, I said, Mexico sounds like Colombia 20 years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But based on your own experience of Colombia, it's the puzzle. It's hard to understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, maybe next. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you recommend, if a young person came to you today or an old person, would you recommend they join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. After a lot of hesitation. It's great. It's great. We tried to get. My son wasn't interested. Daughter wasn't interested. It was kind of like, you know, absolutely wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you'd like to say to the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 41.20630615000141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, Harrington, although an excellent teacher; his ambition was to become an administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was the president ofthe University ofWisconsin when I was there in the late 1960s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that. As a matter of fact, I kept in touch with Harrington until he died. But before he became the head ofthe school at Madison, an opening had occurred at Hawaii. You may not know this, Tim, but he applied for the job at Hawaii, was accepted, but in them meantime the job opened at Madison. So he did some quick legwork and got the job at Madison. He was there, by the way, during the Vietnam War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the reports I got, he kept a very low profile, and probably steered the school in a fairly decent and safe course during those bad times at Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you arrived at the Archives, for what part of the Archives did you originally work, and what kind oftraining, either on-the-job or course kind oftraining, did the Archives provide to new employees at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 33.562562388890456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that. As a matter of fact, I kept in touch with Harrington until he died. But before he became the head ofthe school at Madison, an opening had occurred at Hawaii. You may not know this, Tim, but he applied for the job at Hawaii, was accepted, but in them meantime the job opened at Madison. So he did some quick legwork and got the job at Madison. He was there, by the way, during the Vietnam War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the reports I got, he kept a very low profile, and probably steered the school in a fairly decent and safe course during those bad times at Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you arrived at the Archives, for what part of the Archives did you originally work, and what kind oftraining, either on-the-job or course kind oftraining, did the Archives provide to new employees at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll take you up on training first. Only a few days had I been there when my supervisqr said, \"We have a man here in town, the famous German archivist who fled Germany in 1937 or 1938, and he gives a course in archives administration. You should take it.\" I replied to my supervisor, ''Not this week. I want to work here for at least six months before I take any courses.\" And I'm glad I did. At the end ofsix months, or seven months, I did sign up for Dr. Posner's course. Ernst Posner was his name. He was an excellent teacher. I learned a lot from him, but after working at the Archives for seven months I understood what he was talking about. Unfortunately, some ofmy colleagues took the course immediately, and much ofit went over their heads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he teaching at American University at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 35.06951376543384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From the reports I got, he kept a very low profile, and probably steered the school in a fairly decent and safe course during those bad times at Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you arrived at the Archives, for what part of the Archives did you originally work, and what kind oftraining, either on-the-job or course kind oftraining, did the Archives provide to new employees at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll take you up on training first. Only a few days had I been there when my supervisqr said, \"We have a man here in town, the famous German archivist who fled Germany in 1937 or 1938, and he gives a course in archives administration. You should take it.\" I replied to my supervisor, ''Not this week. I want to work here for at least six months before I take any courses.\" And I'm glad I did. At the end ofsix months, or seven months, I did sign up for Dr. Posner's course. Ernst Posner was his name. He was an excellent teacher. I learned a lot from him, but after working at the Archives for seven months I understood what he was talking about. Unfortunately, some ofmy colleagues took the course immediately, and much ofit went over their heads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he teaching at American University at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was associated with A.U., but his classes were held at Archives I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? ,"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 30.07723751714871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll take you up on training first. Only a few days had I been there when my supervisqr said, \"We have a man here in town, the famous German archivist who fled Germany in 1937 or 1938, and he gives a course in archives administration. You should take it.\" I replied to my supervisor, ''Not this week. I want to work here for at least six months before I take any courses.\" And I'm glad I did. At the end ofsix months, or seven months, I did sign up for Dr. Posner's course. Ernst Posner was his name. He was an excellent teacher. I learned a lot from him, but after working at the Archives for seven months I understood what he was talking about. Unfortunately, some ofmy colleagues took the course immediately, and much ofit went over their heads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he teaching at American University at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was associated with A.U., but his classes were held at Archives I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? ,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, when I first arrived, I was assigned to the War Records Office, which had been created some months before. The War Records Office was headed by Dr. Campbell, actually; he's the one who hired me; after I got in the building and had the first interview with me. Ned Campbell. He was fairly young at the time, 31 or 32. But one of the first things he said to me was, \"I hope you have good common sense.\" He said, \"Unfortunately over the last few months we have had young people come in here with good backgrounds but no common sense. I hope you have good common sense.\" That is something I have never forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can just imagine Dr. Campbell saying that. He was the office head when I came to the Archives in 1970."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.974708352387456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was associated with A.U., but his classes were held at Archives I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? ,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, when I first arrived, I was assigned to the War Records Office, which had been created some months before. The War Records Office was headed by Dr. Campbell, actually; he's the one who hired me; after I got in the building and had the first interview with me. Ned Campbell. He was fairly young at the time, 31 or 32. But one of the first things he said to me was, \"I hope you have good common sense.\" He said, \"Unfortunately over the last few months we have had young people come in here with good backgrounds but no common sense. I hope you have good common sense.\" That is something I have never forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can just imagine Dr. Campbell saying that. He was the office head when I came to the Archives in 1970."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He stressed that. He also said, \"You're from Arkansas, I want to explain Washington, D.C. to you.\" He started to give me a short lecture on the relations between whites and blacks. And I stopped him and said, \"Look, in the past I have worked as a checkout in a food store in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I also worked with all sorts of people; I worked for American Can in Los Angeles.\" He said, \"End oflecture.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, was there on-the-job training for new archivists at that point, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 35.77124487949068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He stressed that. He also said, \"You're from Arkansas, I want to explain Washington, D.C. to you.\" He started to give me a short lecture on the relations between whites and blacks. And I stopped him and said, \"Look, in the past I have worked as a checkout in a food store in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I also worked with all sorts of people; I worked for American Can in Los Angeles.\" He said, \"End oflecture.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, was there on-the-job training for new archivists at that point, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only Posner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just Posner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Posner, that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were some ofthe other people who were in leadership positions at the Archives at this time? We're talking about 1945, which is about ten years into the existence ofthe Archives, so I imagine some ofthe \"founding fathers\" were still around."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.36361116189883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Connor. Then Buck was the second one. Buck remained there for a number ofyears, but I did not see much ofBuck. I was told by my supervisors that Buck wanted to see everything--everything--he wanted everything to pass over his desk. Each paper that passed over he would put his initials in the comer ofthe page. Also, in the Archives when I first arrived was Dr. Irvine. I don't know what job he had before I arrived, but by the time I got there he had been sort ofpushed aside, I believe, by the front office. I had quite a bit ofcontact with him some time later. My immediate supervisor was Dr. Campbell. Campbell was the one who interviewed me. Campbell was head ofthe division, but he had two branch chiefs. One headed the Navy branch, and one headed the Army branch. I was assigned to the Navy branch, under Dr. Locky, who had been there for a number ofyears. Locky liked me in the beginning, too, fortunately. As a matter of fact, when I reported to work, after talking to Campbell and Locky, Locky gave me a desk in his own office. He explained to me, that they had been having problems getting records back from various agencies. Back in those days the Archives lent documents--a massive number of documents--to the agencies around town. A lot ofNavy records, especially, went to the Navy. For a lot ofagencies, they had a hard tiqie getting them back. Locky said to me, \"Your job is to get those documents back here.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was just at the end ofthe war, and a lot ofagencies actually had people working in the Archives exploiting the records for wartime purposes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Navy hadn't had people there for many, many years. However-­"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had up until the 1970s--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were agencies, I am talking about, that would call us up on the phone, saying, \"Please send this document over to us--\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like the Records Centers today."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.2929012909987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Navy hadn't had people there for many, many years. However-­"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had up until the 1970s--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were agencies, I am talking about, that would call us up on the phone, saying, \"Please send this document over to us--\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like the Records Centers today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when I arrived, the lending system was in a mess. Locky had each archivist in his branch handle these documents that were lent out, and apparently the archivists were not doing a very good job in getting them back. So the first two days I was on the job, Locky personally, without any knowledge or any warning, he went to the desk in the stacks of each archivist. He took the little box that contained all the slips--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of what had been lent--"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.10322365666522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were agencies, I am talking about, that would call us up on the phone, saying, \"Please send this document over to us--\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like the Records Centers today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when I arrived, the lending system was in a mess. Locky had each archivist in his branch handle these documents that were lent out, and apparently the archivists were not doing a very good job in getting them back. So the first two days I was on the job, Locky personally, without any knowledge or any warning, he went to the desk in the stacks of each archivist. He took the little box that contained all the slips--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of what had been lent--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had been charged out. He transferred without any knowledge or any comment to these archivists, he picked up the boxes from each desk, and brought them to my desk. I immediately got on the phone and started calling these various agencies. Many times they had been out for over 90 days, they'll say, \"Oh, but we still need them.\" I'd say, \"That's OK, just send them back to me and I'll re-charge them.\" I did that for quite a while. By the way, I came in at what today is a GS-3. It was something else, but it was the equivalent ofwhat is now a GS-3. Having been in Navy for a few months, my supervisor alerted me that there was a job opening in Army, or Military, branch, and I could have it ifl wanted it. So I immediately went to Military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the chief?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.114692951850245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when I arrived, the lending system was in a mess. Locky had each archivist in his branch handle these documents that were lent out, and apparently the archivists were not doing a very good job in getting them back. So the first two days I was on the job, Locky personally, without any knowledge or any warning, he went to the desk in the stacks of each archivist. He took the little box that contained all the slips--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of what had been lent--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had been charged out. He transferred without any knowledge or any comment to these archivists, he picked up the boxes from each desk, and brought them to my desk. I immediately got on the phone and started calling these various agencies. Many times they had been out for over 90 days, they'll say, \"Oh, but we still need them.\" I'd say, \"That's OK, just send them back to me and I'll re-charge them.\" I did that for quite a while. By the way, I came in at what today is a GS-3. It was something else, but it was the equivalent ofwhat is now a GS-3. Having been in Navy for a few months, my supervisor alerted me that there was a job opening in Army, or Military, branch, and I could have it ifl wanted it. So I immediately went to Military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The branch ofthat--Military, under Campbell, ofcourse--the name escapes me. He, unlike Locky and Campbell, did not have a Ph.D. He had four years ofcollege. He was an excellent, excellent administrator and a good archivist. He used to boast to me the number; he used to say, \"I have packed more archives boxes than the whole building combined.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your initial impressions ofthe National Archives after you joined it, coming out ofschool?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.286683359015765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "--what was going on in that building. Some years after I had been there a top official went to a conference down in Texas. He came back and said, \"No one knows anything about us!\" So? Of course! They had a husband and wife who would come to the Archives from Tennessee, before I arrived. He had a top job there; his name escapes me now, but his wife, I learned, was one ofhis former students. Apparently he had fallen in love with his student, and married her, and for various reasons had to leave Tennessee. They both came to Archives, and she, too, worked at Archives. Her job was supposedly what Susan Cooper does today .. But the Archives top management gave her no support. As a matter offact they discouraged her from getting the news out about the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have got a couple of--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she remained there for a number ofyears, but eventually she went to the Library ofCongress, and became vice-president, or assistant librarian, for public affairs!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that so few people knew what the Archives was about, and you talked a little bit about some ofyour early jobs, which in my mind raise the question, did archivists then do multi-tasks, or were you more functionally organized like we are today, where there are separate reference units, projects units, and appraisal units? Or did you tend to do a little bit of all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first arrived, Reference was one of the top, top concerns ofDr. Campbell, and Dr. Locky, and also Dr. Elizabeth Greary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the clientele other government agencies, or the public, or--?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.09631484335085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she remained there for a number ofyears, but eventually she went to the Library ofCongress, and became vice-president, or assistant librarian, for public affairs!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that so few people knew what the Archives was about, and you talked a little bit about some ofyour early jobs, which in my mind raise the question, did archivists then do multi-tasks, or were you more functionally organized like we are today, where there are separate reference units, projects units, and appraisal units? Or did you tend to do a little bit of all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first arrived, Reference was one of the top, top concerns ofDr. Campbell, and Dr. Locky, and also Dr. Elizabeth Greary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the clientele other government agencies, or the public, or--?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Dr. Locky was my supervisor, but Dr. Elizabeth Greary was in charge ofReference for both Army and Navy. I owe a lot to her. She did everything she could for me. We liked each other from day one, and I worked very closely with her. In those early days I heard very little about projects, which I am sure was going on, but--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was mostly reference work from the very beginning?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.218127603723165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first arrived, Reference was one of the top, top concerns ofDr. Campbell, and Dr. Locky, and also Dr. Elizabeth Greary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the clientele other government agencies, or the public, or--?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Dr. Locky was my supervisor, but Dr. Elizabeth Greary was in charge ofReference for both Army and Navy. I owe a lot to her. She did everything she could for me. We liked each other from day one, and I worked very closely with her. In those early days I heard very little about projects, which I am sure was going on, but--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was mostly reference work from the very beginning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me. As I say, each branch may have had people who worked on projects, but invariably I heard very little about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recollect how big, say, the Army branch was back then, so we get some sense ofthe scale ofthe agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.24236400413685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both. Dr. Locky was my supervisor, but Dr. Elizabeth Greary was in charge ofReference for both Army and Navy. I owe a lot to her. She did everything she could for me. We liked each other from day one, and I worked very closely with her. In those early days I heard very little about projects, which I am sure was going on, but--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was mostly reference work from the very beginning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me. As I say, each branch may have had people who worked on projects, but invariably I heard very little about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recollect how big, say, the Army branch was back then, so we get some sense ofthe scale ofthe agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I simply don't recall the number ofpeople in the Army branch, or even the Navy branch, including the secretaries; I don't recall. [End ofTape 1, Side 1] [Begin Tape 1, Side 2]\n\n--once I went to Army branch, I no longer worked with Navy records, no longer bugging Navy agencies and offices to return records. However, I did some ofthat in Army, because in those early days, the Army, especially the G-2 people in the Pentagon, were calling us two or three times a day for MID [Military Intelligence Division] documents. All classified, every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had that main collection of interwar MID files--"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.49151556015205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me. As I say, each branch may have had people who worked on projects, but invariably I heard very little about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recollect how big, say, the Army branch was back then, so we get some sense ofthe scale ofthe agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I simply don't recall the number ofpeople in the Army branch, or even the Navy branch, including the secretaries; I don't recall. [End ofTape 1, Side 1] [Begin Tape 1, Side 2]\n\n--once I went to Army branch, I no longer worked with Navy records, no longer bugging Navy agencies and offices to return records. However, I did some ofthat in Army, because in those early days, the Army, especially the G-2 people in the Pentagon, were calling us two or three times a day for MID [Military Intelligence Division] documents. All classified, every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had that main collection of interwar MID files--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1917to 1941--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "--At that early date?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 39.00187106191611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1917to 1941--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "--At that early date?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in the building when I arrived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All classified. By the way, besides the Army, I worked with 19th-century records for a while. Beautiful handwriting, but it is hard for me to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, it still is."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.68132229866187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All classified. By the way, besides the Army, I worked with 19th-century records for a while. Beautiful handwriting, but it is hard for me to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, it still is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, 1945, 1946, 1947 was a time when a great many wartime records were commgm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One ofthe first records _that I worked with that came in, that I packed boxes ofrecords and did reference on, was the Office of Civilian Defense. Also, in the early days I started to open boxes, especially intelligence documents. This is something I learned and something I have never forgotten, that I still tell people about it. These prewar war plans: Orange, for Japan; Black for Germany; and so forth. They always intrigued me. Also in Military Intelligence, I learned for the first time that in the 1920s, Japanese writers were constantly writing stories--all fiction, but still stories--about war with the U.S. In the 20s I doubt any American writers would write about a war with Japan, but there was a lot ofthat in Japan in the 1920s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since this was right after the war, and you mentioned that there were a lot ofrecords being retired to the Archives; but were staff members who had been in the service or doing other kinds ofwar work, were they retuning to the Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.645913665179854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, 1945, 1946, 1947 was a time when a great many wartime records were commgm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One ofthe first records _that I worked with that came in, that I packed boxes ofrecords and did reference on, was the Office of Civilian Defense. Also, in the early days I started to open boxes, especially intelligence documents. This is something I learned and something I have never forgotten, that I still tell people about it. These prewar war plans: Orange, for Japan; Black for Germany; and so forth. They always intrigued me. Also in Military Intelligence, I learned for the first time that in the 1920s, Japanese writers were constantly writing stories--all fiction, but still stories--about war with the U.S. In the 20s I doubt any American writers would write about a war with Japan, but there was a lot ofthat in Japan in the 1920s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since this was right after the war, and you mentioned that there were a lot ofrecords being retired to the Archives; but were staff members who had been in the service or doing other kinds ofwar work, were they retuning to the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a big influx ofold staff and new staff at the same time?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 42.39736879314107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, even before the intelligence records, in the beginning; the War Production Board records came in 194 7, and the Nuremberg records came in 1948-49. For many years, I got a reputation in the building and also outside the building, as the lead archivist for both ofthose groups: the Nuremberg, and the War Production Board. But at the same time, I was working with other groups, too. I did a lot ofwork in RG 153, Army JAG [Judge Advocate General]. I packed a lot ofrecords that came in and did a lot ofreference on JAG records for a number ofyears. As a matter offact, I think I worked with JAG records, one part ofit, until Suitland opened in the 1960s--1959?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. I think it was the late 60s. The Army Departmental Records Branch at the Torpedo Factory [in Alexandria, Virginia] became the World War I1 Records Division in 1958. And they moved out ofthe Torpedo Factory in, I think, 1967 or 1968."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, at the same time the records at the Torpedo Factory were moved to Suitland, a lot ofrecords were moved from Archives I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Including a lot ofJAG records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That was a lot later, though."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.467978182227306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, in 1975, the State Department Historical Office called me up and said, \"We have no further interest in the R&A material, but the CIA [Central Intelligence Agency] may have an interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that summer, the CIA sent a team in to review all the documents, They did not review all the cards, that would be impossible. But they reviewed every single page ofthe documents, and held only about one percent. I know that with the one percent withheld, many times they provided us with a sanitized copy, with the names taken out ofthe first paragraph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also had good relations with the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation]. There were a Jot ofFBI records in the R&A. For many years, FBI would have to review these documents for a researcher. I first had contact with the FBI in the late 40s. Two agents from the FBI came to see me ahnost every day, looking for Communists-­ Communist Americans who had worked for the Soviets during World War II. They came in ahnost every day, so I developed a good relationship with the FBI. Anyway, at one point, the FBI reports in the R&A would have to be reviewed by the FBI. So I would gather up the notes ofthe researcher, agents would come over, and look at the docum,ents in.my office. A few days later I would get a Jetter back, signed by J. Edgar [Hoover, FBI Director] himself, saying these documents may be released."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. There are a Jot ofFBI documents in the Military Intelligence Division files, too, that we treated--"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.408864646919227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that summer, the CIA sent a team in to review all the documents, They did not review all the cards, that would be impossible. But they reviewed every single page ofthe documents, and held only about one percent. I know that with the one percent withheld, many times they provided us with a sanitized copy, with the names taken out ofthe first paragraph."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also had good relations with the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation]. There were a Jot ofFBI records in the R&A. For many years, FBI would have to review these documents for a researcher. I first had contact with the FBI in the late 40s. Two agents from the FBI came to see me ahnost every day, looking for Communists-­ Communist Americans who had worked for the Soviets during World War II. They came in ahnost every day, so I developed a good relationship with the FBI. Anyway, at one point, the FBI reports in the R&A would have to be reviewed by the FBI. So I would gather up the notes ofthe researcher, agents would come over, and look at the docum,ents in.my office. A few days later I would get a Jetter back, signed by J. Edgar [Hoover, FBI Director] himself, saying these documents may be released."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. There are a Jot ofFBI documents in the Military Intelligence Division files, too, that we treated--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Similar--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "--in a similar way back in the early 70s. How did the researcher.clientele change over the years, the early years that you were at the Archives? Or did it?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 32.6765162743547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also had good relations with the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation]. There were a Jot ofFBI records in the R&A. For many years, FBI would have to review these documents for a researcher. I first had contact with the FBI in the late 40s. Two agents from the FBI came to see me ahnost every day, looking for Communists-­ Communist Americans who had worked for the Soviets during World War II. They came in ahnost every day, so I developed a good relationship with the FBI. Anyway, at one point, the FBI reports in the R&A would have to be reviewed by the FBI. So I would gather up the notes ofthe researcher, agents would come over, and look at the docum,ents in.my office. A few days later I would get a Jetter back, signed by J. Edgar [Hoover, FBI Director] himself, saying these documents may be released."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. There are a Jot ofFBI documents in the Military Intelligence Division files, too, that we treated--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Similar--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "--in a similar way back in the early 70s. How did the researcher.clientele change over the years, the early years that you were at the Archives? Or did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "--Oh, yes--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of the kinds ofdifferent kinds ofresearchers--?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.529462527060772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Similar--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "--in a similar way back in the early 70s. How did the researcher.clientele change over the years, the early years that you were at the Archives? Or did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "--Oh, yes--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of the kinds ofdifferent kinds ofresearchers--?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not only the different kinds, but also the number increased a great deal. As a matter offact, Dr. Posner warned the Archives many years ago, that we should plan ahead. That you are going to have far more people than you expect, and you are going to need far more space than you now have. But much ofthat advice fell on deaf ears. I know that for many years in Archives I, I would see students from London, Paris, Stockholm; I would never see a local school student. Never, from A.U., George Washington, Georgetown, American, never. One student explained to me once, I have forgotten the school, it wasn't a school in Washington D.C., that the professors said to avoid the National Archives, because it is far too complicated and they have far too much records for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] He got that right, didn't he!"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.588291696734192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "--Oh, yes--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of the kinds ofdifferent kinds ofresearchers--?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not only the different kinds, but also the number increased a great deal. As a matter offact, Dr. Posner warned the Archives many years ago, that we should plan ahead. That you are going to have far more people than you expect, and you are going to need far more space than you now have. But much ofthat advice fell on deaf ears. I know that for many years in Archives I, I would see students from London, Paris, Stockholm; I would never see a local school student. Never, from A.U., George Washington, Georgetown, American, never. One student explained to me once, I have forgotten the school, it wasn't a school in Washington D.C., that the professors said to avoid the National Archives, because it is far too complicated and they have far too much records for you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] He got that right, didn't he!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "--Even from as far away as Madison! Of course, in recent years, I see a lot of local students; it's far different from how it was downtown in the early days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the kinds ofresearchers? I mean, in the early days did you deal; today we seem to deal with not exactly genealogists, but people that are interested in family members who were in the military, or family members who served in the OSS, or situations like that, to a far greater degree, it seems to me, than when I even started."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 33.19542184781999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "--Even from as far away as Madison! Of course, in recent years, I see a lot of local students; it's far different from how it was downtown in the early days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the kinds ofresearchers? I mean, in the early days did you deal; today we seem to deal with not exactly genealogists, but people that are interested in family members who were in the military, or family members who served in the OSS, or situations like that, to a far greater degree, it seems to me, than when I even started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, that's true, that's correct. However, even in the early days I saw a lot oflawyers. Mainly in the early 40s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. One reason for that was that during the war itself, the War Production Board did a lot ofthings that industry did not like, For example, the Board closed all gold mines in this country, and after the war the gold mine operators brought a lawsuit against the government. Some days I would have lawyers from both sides in my office looking at documents. In addition to the gold mines, patent cases involving automobile tires, or something like that. We had a wide variety ofresearchers in the 1940s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some ofthe challenges that you faced early in your career? Things that your education or experience didn't necessarily prepare you for, in terms of dealing with records, or dealing with researchers, or even dealing with supervisors?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 32.43935760868888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, that's true, that's correct. However, even in the early days I saw a lot oflawyers. Mainly in the early 40s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. One reason for that was that during the war itself, the War Production Board did a lot ofthings that industry did not like, For example, the Board closed all gold mines in this country, and after the war the gold mine operators brought a lawsuit against the government. Some days I would have lawyers from both sides in my office looking at documents. In addition to the gold mines, patent cases involving automobile tires, or something like that. We had a wide variety ofresearchers in the 1940s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some ofthe challenges that you faced early in your career? Things that your education or experience didn't necessarily prepare you for, in terms of dealing with records, or dealing with researchers, or even dealing with supervisors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I cannot think ofanything, I mean, I have always been a sort oflaid-back guy. I like working under pressure, I don't worry about a thing. Some ofthe assignments I did not care for. I did try Projects once. To me, it was a lonely job, so I tried to avoid Projects. As a matter offact, one supervisor said to nie once, many, many years ago, \"Taylor, the problem with you, is you want to do what you want to do.\" I plead guilty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Well, I think sometimes it's management's responsibility to match the job to the personality and talents ofthe individual, and I think clearly in your case, it's been a good match for your long career."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 34.01556534047943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the war started in 1950, right? It started pretty soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. We'll take a time-out. OK. [End Tape 1, Side 2] [Start Tape 2, Side 1]\n\nAre we back on? Why don't we talk a little bit about the relationship between the National Archives and other Federal agencies and how it's changed over the years, but also how you have developed relationships with different people in other agencies and how that's affected your work at the Archives over the years. I think in particular, a lot ofyour close contacts with people in agencies such as the Central Intelligence Agency."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are we on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even before CIA, as I mentioned a bit earlier, I had close contacts with State Department, with FBI, and one agency I did not mention; it was a agency that came on the scene a bit later, NSRB: the National Security Resources Board. It was another civilian agency, established in 1947, and in about 1953 its name had changed. It eventually evolved into what we know today as FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency]. But I worked very closely in the 1950s and early 60s with NSRB: the National Security Resources Board. They had responsibility for allocation ofraw materials during the Korean War, labor, that sort ofthing. Plus, they were also responsible for civil defense. I really did enjoy working with the records, with a guy down the hall, in the civilian agencies. But they were with the Military Branch for many years. Also I worked very closely with the staffmembers there. As a matter offact, they had an office near the White House, and I visited them very often, and they would come to visit me at Archives. They developed their own indexes and their own filing schemes, as many agencies do, and it was such a variety of records and such a wide range ofsubjects, that it was a nice change from military records, per se, or even intelligence records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about some ofyour dealings with the Central Intelligence Agency, particularly as it relates to access and reference issues on OSS records."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.05723605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iris Chang, a Chinese-American writer, is another one I worked with very closely. Three books, she did, before she committed suicide. A lot ofBritish writers, I forget. I spent a lot oftime over the years with a French writer, a French journalist, named Calvi, who did a book published in France, The OSS in France."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you are helping a researcher, what do you see as your role, in terms ofproviding advice and assistance to a researcher; particularly the kind ofpeople you have just described, the more senior kinds of authors and researchers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For either one, either a student from Georgetown, or a student from Oxford, or a famous writer who has published a half-a-dozen books, I usually tell these people in the beginning, \"The more I know about your project, the better I can heip you.\" Many, many researchers, not the sort ofpeople you're talking about now, but for many researchers who come here, it's like pulling teeth to find out exactly what are they looking for. They are sometimes reluctant to reveal everything, or think that two or three lines are all we need, but I often tell-researchers that the more we know about your project, the better we can provide assistance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good advice. Describe how you feel about the records that you've worked with over the years. I mean, in terms ofwhat you get out ofworking in the records and what you think the value of archival records, particularly the archival records that you have worked in over your career, are for the American public and the researcher public, which, partic;ularly out here, at College Park, goes well beyond the Americ~n public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some days and some weeks I see far more foreign researchers than I do Americans. But, will you rephrase that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Do you think this is a congressional hearing or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.9524845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For either one, either a student from Georgetown, or a student from Oxford, or a famous writer who has published a half-a-dozen books, I usually tell these people in the beginning, \"The more I know about your project, the better I can heip you.\" Many, many researchers, not the sort ofpeople you're talking about now, but for many researchers who come here, it's like pulling teeth to find out exactly what are they looking for. They are sometimes reluctant to reveal everything, or think that two or three lines are all we need, but I often tell-researchers that the more we know about your project, the better we can provide assistance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good advice. Describe how you feel about the records that you've worked with over the years. I mean, in terms ofwhat you get out ofworking in the records and what you think the value of archival records, particularly the archival records that you have worked in over your career, are for the American public and the researcher public, which, partic;ularly out here, at College Park, goes well beyond the Americ~n public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some days and some weeks I see far more foreign researchers than I do Americans. But, will you rephrase that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Do you think this is a congressional hearing or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel about the records that you work in? I have heard you talk about this before, about the sort ofjoy you get out ofworking with the records personally, and I would like to hear a little bit about that, but also about the wider importance ofthese records in terms ofthe information that they contain and what this means for researchers and for an informed public."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.947205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some days and some weeks I see far more foreign researchers than I do Americans. But, will you rephrase that question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughs] Do you think this is a congressional hearing or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel about the records that you work in? I have heard you talk about this before, about the sort ofjoy you get out ofworking with the records personally, and I would like to hear a little bit about that, but also about the wider importance ofthese records in terms ofthe information that they contain and what this means for researchers and for an informed public."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost every collection I have worked with--almost every collection--! consider to be important. Because the records contain so much information, that--and I have a very good memory, which helps in this business, by the way--but I consider almost everything I have worked with, every collection here, unique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does this go back to the point you made earlier, about one ofyour supervisors saying that you only work in the stuff that you want to work in, so that you pick the important series?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.05245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel about the records that you work in? I have heard you talk about this before, about the sort ofjoy you get out ofworking with the records personally, and I would like to hear a little bit about that, but also about the wider importance ofthese records in terms ofthe information that they contain and what this means for researchers and for an informed public."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost every collection I have worked with--almost every collection--! consider to be important. Because the records contain so much information, that--and I have a very good memory, which helps in this business, by the way--but I consider almost everything I have worked with, every collection here, unique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does this go back to the point you made earlier, about one ofyour supervisors saying that you only work in the stuff that you want to work in, so that you pick the important series?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was talking about the various-­"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a joke, John--"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.2805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost every collection I have worked with--almost every collection--! consider to be important. Because the records contain so much information, that--and I have a very good memory, which helps in this business, by the way--but I consider almost everything I have worked with, every collection here, unique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does this go back to the point you made earlier, about one ofyour supervisors saying that you only work in the stuff that you want to work in, so that you pick the important series?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was talking about the various-­"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a joke, John--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "--about the various types ofwork that archivists may do. I might say to all of you, on camera; I never claimed to be an all-around archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I am sure you fooled a lot ofpeople in that regard, and you certainly have provided great reference service to lot.s ofpeople over a long and productive career. Thinking back over that career, what are the biggest changes you have seen, both in terms ofhow the National Archives has changed, and how things outside the National Archives have changed, that have impacted the institution?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.05, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "--about the various types ofwork that archivists may do. I might say to all of you, on camera; I never claimed to be an all-around archivist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I am sure you fooled a lot ofpeople in that regard, and you certainly have provided great reference service to lot.s ofpeople over a long and productive career. Thinking back over that career, what are the biggest changes you have seen, both in terms ofhow the National Archives has changed, and how things outside the National Archives have changed, that have impacted the institution?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's hard to answer. I do want to say something else, about a new subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to get this in. We have talked a lot about the pre-World War II, we've talked about World War II, wartime agencies. We have talked about CIA. But I want to tell you that the wave ofthe future, in my view, is going to be the Cold War, the history ofthe Cold War. In recent months I have had researchers, not only from the U.S., but from Norway, Sweden, France, U.K., all interested in the Cold War. And some ofthese people are here for months on end. I am hoping that in the months and years ahead the National Archives will have adequate records available for these researchers who are writing books. As a matter offact, one American told me a couple ofdays ago that he started a history ofthe Cold War and he may spend nine or ten years on it. So I am hoping that the records will be available here for all these people who have high hopes for writing about the Cold War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say that you hope the records will be available, there seems to be something implicit in that that maybe there won't be. What are your--"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's hard to answer. I do want to say something else, about a new subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to get this in. We have talked a lot about the pre-World War II, we've talked about World War II, wartime agencies. We have talked about CIA. But I want to tell you that the wave ofthe future, in my view, is going to be the Cold War, the history ofthe Cold War. In recent months I have had researchers, not only from the U.S., but from Norway, Sweden, France, U.K., all interested in the Cold War. And some ofthese people are here for months on end. I am hoping that in the months and years ahead the National Archives will have adequate records available for these researchers who are writing books. As a matter offact, one American told me a couple ofdays ago that he started a history ofthe Cold War and he may spend nine or ten years on it. So I am hoping that the records will be available here for all these people who have high hopes for writing about the Cold War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say that you hope the records will be available, there seems to be something implicit in that that maybe there won't be. What are your--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we all know, some ofthese records are either withheld now, or have been re-reviewed. Some have been reclassified. That may be a problem down the road a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure it's all that far down the road. I think that much ofthe good ofthe declassification actions ofthe '80s and the '90s has certainly been overcome by things like the Kyl Amendment and other reclassification actions, as you put it, ofthe '90s and the 2000s, and I think it's unfortunate."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to get this in. We have talked a lot about the pre-World War II, we've talked about World War II, wartime agencies. We have talked about CIA. But I want to tell you that the wave ofthe future, in my view, is going to be the Cold War, the history ofthe Cold War. In recent months I have had researchers, not only from the U.S., but from Norway, Sweden, France, U.K., all interested in the Cold War. And some ofthese people are here for months on end. I am hoping that in the months and years ahead the National Archives will have adequate records available for these researchers who are writing books. As a matter offact, one American told me a couple ofdays ago that he started a history ofthe Cold War and he may spend nine or ten years on it. So I am hoping that the records will be available here for all these people who have high hopes for writing about the Cold War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say that you hope the records will be available, there seems to be something implicit in that that maybe there won't be. What are your--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we all know, some ofthese records are either withheld now, or have been re-reviewed. Some have been reclassified. That may be a problem down the road a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure it's all that far down the road. I think that much ofthe good ofthe declassification actions ofthe '80s and the '90s has certainly been overcome by things like the Kyl Amendment and other reclassification actions, as you put it, ofthe '90s and the 2000s, and I think it's unfortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some staff members have made the statement to me, and I fully agree, that the National Archives has lost control ofmany ofour records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly in terms of declassification, we have lost control ofa lot ofthe authority that we had fifteen or twenty years ago. Are there any other things that you would like to talk about that we haven't brought up yet?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00015:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we all know, some ofthese records are either withheld now, or have been re-reviewed. Some have been reclassified. That may be a problem down the road a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure it's all that far down the road. I think that much ofthe good ofthe declassification actions ofthe '80s and the '90s has certainly been overcome by things like the Kyl Amendment and other reclassification actions, as you put it, ofthe '90s and the 2000s, and I think it's unfortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some staff members have made the statement to me, and I fully agree, that the National Archives has lost control ofmany ofour records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly in terms of declassification, we have lost control ofa lot ofthe authority that we had fifteen or twenty years ago. Are there any other things that you would like to talk about that we haven't brought up yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is not too important, but I'd like to put it in. When I was downtown in . Archives I, I had one huge advantage that I do not have out here. I worked until 7 :00, I could go to the street, hail a cab, and be home in a few minutes. When I would come in on Saturday at Archives I, I could repeat the same procedure. But out here, it's a little different!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking ofyou and downtown, I think it was you who told me one time, and this sort ofgoes back to one ofthe earlier questions, when I asked about major organizational reorganizations. I think it was you who said, that for most ofthe time that you were downtown, you had the same desk in the same office in 13W and everybody just sort ofreorganized around you and you just sat in the same place! And I know when I first came to the Archives in 1967 to do research I think you were sitting in pretty much the same spot where you were in the early 90s before we all moved out here!"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.45595040046774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was lucky. The gray cells worked in that area. They didn't work in the language area very well. I like to say English is my second language and I don't have a first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, your first maybe is physics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure that even though at the time your father may have regretted that you didn't go into his business, I'm sure he ended up later on being happy with—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. He was. He was rather proud when it was all said and done. So I felt perhaps I came back around and brought a little cheer into his life as a result of getting into the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly would be something for a father to be proud of in his son."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.254259753663877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was. He was. He was rather proud when it was all said and done. So I felt perhaps I came back around and brought a little cheer into his life as a result of getting into the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly would be something for a father to be proud of in his son."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, he was always supportive of me in everything I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It helps a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 28.060288615182085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, he was always supportive of me in everything I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It helps a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does. It really does. It makes all the difference in the world. If you have a wife and parents that support you, then that's all the difference in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you had been interested in astronomy and in the solar system. Had you followed much of what was going on in the space program while you were studying and in school?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.072837395491668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was, all the way. Yes, my wife Julie was my girlfriend since, well, since she was in freshman year and I was a senior in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she's been with me for a little over forty years now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tell her we're still in a trial period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully that trial period is working out pretty well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.858708217212964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she's been with me for a little over forty years now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tell her we're still in a trial period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully that trial period is working out pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's working fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly sounds like it is.\\n\\n You mentioned going to Caltech being a challenge and that getting into the space program would be a challenge, but you did say that in between you worked. You mentioned Aeronatronics and you also worked for Philco Corporation for a while, if that's correct, or maybe they were connected."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.620786908014406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I tell her we're still in a trial period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully that trial period is working out pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's working fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly sounds like it is.\\n\\n You mentioned going to Caltech being a challenge and that getting into the space program would be a challenge, but you did say that in between you worked. You mentioned Aeronatronics and you also worked for Philco Corporation for a while, if that's correct, or maybe they were connected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Philco Corporation and Aeronatronics were one and the same. It was Aeronatronic Division of the Ford-Philco Corporation. It was a year in which I was doing research in Newport Beach, California. My wife and I wanted to stay in California, and also I liked the person who was running that laboratory, and it was consistent with my background, which was in plasma physics, the study of high-temperature gases. What was different about it was that it was no longer so theoretical as what I had in graduate school. It was more applied physics, which I found interesting, but at the same time not interesting. I was kind of sitting on the fence, depending upon the type of project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it was just the right time and place for that new challenge with the space program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 30.689763231127117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's working fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly sounds like it is.\\n\\n You mentioned going to Caltech being a challenge and that getting into the space program would be a challenge, but you did say that in between you worked. You mentioned Aeronatronics and you also worked for Philco Corporation for a while, if that's correct, or maybe they were connected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Philco Corporation and Aeronatronics were one and the same. It was Aeronatronic Division of the Ford-Philco Corporation. It was a year in which I was doing research in Newport Beach, California. My wife and I wanted to stay in California, and also I liked the person who was running that laboratory, and it was consistent with my background, which was in plasma physics, the study of high-temperature gases. What was different about it was that it was no longer so theoretical as what I had in graduate school. It was more applied physics, which I found interesting, but at the same time not interesting. I was kind of sitting on the fence, depending upon the type of project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so it was just the right time and place for that new challenge with the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did apply, tell us about what that process was like, your application process, your interview, and what some of the steps along the way were, and what you thought about the whole thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.409942434273912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wouldn't be something that everyone would think of. You're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was actually a 28-year-old kid. I'd spent almost my life going through school, so I hadn't had a chance to get out in the world and grow up in any way. So I was just really a kid thrown right in the middle of that. It was the glory days of the Mercury, the Original Seven, and then the next group, the Gemini Program was still on. And all of a sudden to be brought in with that group, I felt like an imposter. It was one day you're just a kid sitting in the corner and the next day all of a sudden you are one, and you say, \"Now what do I do?\" And people treat you like you know everything about the space program, and you don't. So it takes a while to make that adjustment. That was probably a little challenge at the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had been looking for a new challenge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might have been a little different than what you thought it was.\\n\\n At any point during the process of applying and the various testing and shaking and heating and cooling and everything they'd put you through, did any of those make you stop and think, \"Gee, do I really want to be doing this?\" or did you just keep—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 30.455491593637678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was actually a 28-year-old kid. I'd spent almost my life going through school, so I hadn't had a chance to get out in the world and grow up in any way. So I was just really a kid thrown right in the middle of that. It was the glory days of the Mercury, the Original Seven, and then the next group, the Gemini Program was still on. And all of a sudden to be brought in with that group, I felt like an imposter. It was one day you're just a kid sitting in the corner and the next day all of a sudden you are one, and you say, \"Now what do I do?\" And people treat you like you know everything about the space program, and you don't. So it takes a while to make that adjustment. That was probably a little challenge at the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had been looking for a new challenge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I found it, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It might have been a little different than what you thought it was.\\n\\n At any point during the process of applying and the various testing and shaking and heating and cooling and everything they'd put you through, did any of those make you stop and think, \"Gee, do I really want to be doing this?\" or did you just keep—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that stuff was relatively easy. It wasn't like we were trying out to be a Navy SEAL or anything. I had been in athletics most of my life, swimming, so I was used to thinking and working in confined spaces and a number of things that they put us through just to see how you would mentally respond, and I felt very comfortable in all those things just because of my background was that and also I was highly motivated to do it. So I thought, \"Jeez, is this all they're going to have us do?\" I expected a lot more, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had they told you during the process that if you were selected, you would then go through flight training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.82391268231017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he did play a very vital role. Unfortunately, he never got to fly until Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project, ASTP], which was too bad, because he could have contributed quite a bit in Mercury and all the way through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He certainly had his own unique contributions in a different way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a different way, he sure did. He was a good leader, though, in that sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. It certainly seems like it from what we've heard. It must have been disappointing, though, to have some of that other resistance for all of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was, but as I reflect back on it, there was nothing hostile in people's intent or anything. It was strictly a belief. These guys grew up in a test pilot world. We grew up in a science world. We both thought we had a lot to contribute. The test pilots were always there first, a natural extrapolation of test flight, so it was natural that that's the way it was. But it did take a while in order to break down those barriers, and it was just working alongside the guys and finally it happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything specifically, as you were going through the training initially, what were some of the areas that you first focused on? And as you began to realize that it would take working with them more closely and integrating yourself into the group, was there anything specifically that you would then work towards or work on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.627003697471327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I shouldn't have been landing out in areas which were unprepared or not approved. It was common practice, but I still shouldn't been doing it, so it was my screw-up. Good airmanship, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's the geology I was off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you should have gone back and talked to Jack Schmitt and have him give you a run-down on it.\\n\\n Did you get a chance to ever go back up in a helicopter after that? They always talk about getting back on the horse after—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have since never been able to go up and fly one. I've been in helicopters many times and someone let me take the controls, but I haven't been able to go up to fly helicopters since then, because after that they said, \"Why are we spending all this money? These guys aren't going to the Moon, anyway.\" So a number of us who had been flying were taken off helicopter status, which I thought was unfortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunate, but maybe it was just a—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.36333744163481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's the geology I was off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you should have gone back and talked to Jack Schmitt and have him give you a run-down on it.\\n\\n Did you get a chance to ever go back up in a helicopter after that? They always talk about getting back on the horse after—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have since never been able to go up and fly one. I've been in helicopters many times and someone let me take the controls, but I haven't been able to go up to fly helicopters since then, because after that they said, \"Why are we spending all this money? These guys aren't going to the Moon, anyway.\" So a number of us who had been flying were taken off helicopter status, which I thought was unfortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunate, but maybe it was just a—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the right thing to do. I mean, I just precipitated a change that was already going to take place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Around this time also you were serving on the support crew and as the capcom for Apollo 12. Is that correct? Was that the same time frame?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.292597157372008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I have since never been able to go up and fly one. I've been in helicopters many times and someone let me take the controls, but I haven't been able to go up to fly helicopters since then, because after that they said, \"Why are we spending all this money? These guys aren't going to the Moon, anyway.\" So a number of us who had been flying were taken off helicopter status, which I thought was unfortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunate, but maybe it was just a—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the right thing to do. I mean, I just precipitated a change that was already going to take place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Around this time also you were serving on the support crew and as the capcom for Apollo 12. Is that correct? Was that the same time frame?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are the duties of a support crew member, and what did you even think of it when you got the assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.459129343373966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I wasn't there. Jerry [Gerald P.] Carr had the launch. I was primarily on when they were out on the EVAs. So as soon as they started getting ready for the EVAs, then, because I had worked with them on developing all those procedures, I was the capcom. Some of those EVAs were five and a half, six, seven hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you stay in there for the whole shift?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I got a chance to do that, and that was just fascinating. It was tough to believe, actually, when you were sitting there and you were talking to the guys you were normally used to talking to over in some other part of the building or somewhere out in the desert, and all of a sudden you realized that they're really up there on the Moon, and the communications there was better than they usually were in our training exercises. So it was tough to realize that these guys were really up there, other than the two-second delay, which made it difficult to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a point at all during the mission where you remember thinking that and reflecting on the fact that, \"Jeez, these guys are up there doing it\"?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, that went through my mind several times, because all of a sudden the training exercises we had gone through and the lunar traverses which we had practiced, this time, even though we had trained with a two-second delay in the communications, just knowing that they were still up there, it was real difficult. If I'd been on the flight, perhaps I wouldn't have had as much time to reflect. But since I was on the ground, you got a little more time to think about it than you would if you were actually on the scene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been points previous to this, during other missions that you might not have been directly involved with, perhaps Apollo 11, perhaps Apollo 8, even, where you thought about the impact of what this whole program was having on the world at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.061789254825962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, and, unfortunately, politicians via subcommittees love to get in and micromanage. As opposed to just giving a top-level requirement, we get the guys in who are frustrated engineers. You know, I've seen them get in and start trying to micromanage how you build a space station. Shouldn't be done, shouldn't be done. Should be top-level management. You select the goals you want and keep them constant. Get good people and give it the right financing, hold them to various milestones and then just get out of their way. And if you look at the way the program has evolved because of the federal bureaucracy, every one of those things has been violated. We've shifted goals. We have a tough time retaining good people. We bring a lot in, but there's also an awful lot who leave who should not.\\n\\n We have micromanagement of programs as opposed to just giving top-level requirements. And then when things don't go right, the outside world says, \"Well, obviously we got to step in and fix things,\" which stirs the pot in the wrong direction again. So we've had a lot of difficulty since the Apollo era in getting things accomplished in a cost-effective and efficient way, and a lot of it is because there's too much political structure, too much help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly the space program, as you've mentioned, is so much in the public eye that even though it may only be the small percentage of the national budget that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a political football."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned a little bit back to the Vietnam War and some of the unrest that was going on. How aware were all of you at NASA of what was going on in the rest of the country and the rest of the world? Did it impact your jobs much, or were you very focused on the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.290876949806625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a political football."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned a little bit back to the Vietnam War and some of the unrest that was going on. How aware were all of you at NASA of what was going on in the rest of the country and the rest of the world? Did it impact your jobs much, or were you very focused on the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were rather naive, I think, about the political impact of what was happening and how it would affect the space program, but I do remember thinking about some of the people who I had gone to flight school with and a lot of the people who my friends knew who were over in Vietnam and risking their lives every day and some of the not coming back. And then people were trying to glorify what was taking place in the space program, and I thought somehow this doesn't fit. It's not right, because here we were not getting shot at and really just enjoying life and being very lucky to be there, and we were getting praised for doing it, whereas the other guys were out there defending our country and taking the risk every day and some of them not coming back, and they got the derision of the nation heaped on them because all they were doing was standing behind their flag and doing what their commander-in-chief told them. I thought that was extremely unfair. I still do. It was a wrong thing to do. Our nation, we should’a been in or out. We never should have done that to our military."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely not, because, as you said, they were doing what they were told to do, what they were asked to do, and they were doing it to the best of their ability.\\n\\n The space program at least did give something positive for the country to reflect on. I think even someone after Apollo 8 had sent back a telegram saying, \"You saved 1968,\" that it was something good for people to be able to focus on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.24223433048252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. I could have written anything, and maybe because there were three scientists and three seats, it was that simple. Probably was. I didn't know it at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, certainly your research in preparing for it gave you a lot, when you were working on your mission, a lot to build off of and run with in completing all of your experiments and procedures and such."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It really helped me. At least I felt I was fully contributing then. I would have felt probably a little as though I had missed an opportunity if I had not really fully applied myself, because I knew I could, and taken advantage of the opportunity in space flight to really do good science. I figure that's why I was there. I'd gone through Caltech, and if I was going to do anything good, it had to be in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Skylab Program was coming more fully up to speed and things were being formalized, what role, before you were assigned to a mission, did you have? Were you just continuing on, on work like this and on studying the solar physics? Were you involved then with the ATM [Apollo Telescope Mount] work early on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was involved in the ATM early on because of my background in solar physics, but then I got involved in the film retrieval from ATM, which was done by EVAs, space walks. So then I got into the space walk world, which was an awful lot of fun. I really enjoyed that, and then also got into the design of the laboratory, but only in a review basis for what other guys were doing. My specialty was the ATM. So the space walk activities and the procedures for running the equipment turned out to fall on me next, along with Owen Garriott, who did quite a bit of that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the EVAs and the film retrieval and you had come in during some of the Gemini work, and they obviously had a lot of problems with EVA. Did you build on a lot of their experiences?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.900372398235818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was very natural, because I had an athletic background and also the swimming. I was a lifeguard at one time. So it all seemed to fit. It just all fell together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good. Good connection there.\\n\\n Was the Skylab design then pretty well in place as you were working on these, or were there any large changes that came across?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had an awful lot of changes. We started out, we were going to have a wet workshop, it was called. The ATM initially was going to be flown just in place of the Apollo module on a command service module [CSM]. So it was going to be just independent. And then there were some other experiments which people wanted to fly and finally they said, \"Why don't we get this thing all together and make a space station out of it.\" And so that's when the Apollo Extension System came along, and then finally Apollo Applications with the integrated vehicle.\\n\\n It started out that we were going to have a wet workshop. In other words, we were going to launch and then use the upper stage for our space station, part of our space station. But it turned out that that was just too complex. We found it was much more cost-effective as well as operationally effective to just go design a thing the way you wanted it and put it on the ground and then launch it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were involved then in that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, all the way through that, yes. It was a natural evolution, and we look back on it now and we made an awful lot of decisions that really influenced how things came out, but they all seemed like natural steps at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Apollo Telescope Mount and that it was actually originally planned to be launched with the command module and to do just some activities on orbit then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.66708044248424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had an awful lot of changes. We started out, we were going to have a wet workshop, it was called. The ATM initially was going to be flown just in place of the Apollo module on a command service module [CSM]. So it was going to be just independent. And then there were some other experiments which people wanted to fly and finally they said, \"Why don't we get this thing all together and make a space station out of it.\" And so that's when the Apollo Extension System came along, and then finally Apollo Applications with the integrated vehicle.\\n\\n It started out that we were going to have a wet workshop. In other words, we were going to launch and then use the upper stage for our space station, part of our space station. But it turned out that that was just too complex. We found it was much more cost-effective as well as operationally effective to just go design a thing the way you wanted it and put it on the ground and then launch it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were involved then in that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, all the way through that, yes. It was a natural evolution, and we look back on it now and we made an awful lot of decisions that really influenced how things came out, but they all seemed like natural steps at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Apollo Telescope Mount and that it was actually originally planned to be launched with the command module and to do just some activities on orbit then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a short time frame, and that's how actually it guided some of the layouts of the control panels and boards and such. Was there much modification to the ATM once it was decided to go with this fuller-scale workshop?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.630089380538045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, all the way through that, yes. It was a natural evolution, and we look back on it now and we made an awful lot of decisions that really influenced how things came out, but they all seemed like natural steps at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the Apollo Telescope Mount and that it was actually originally planned to be launched with the command module and to do just some activities on orbit then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a short time frame, and that's how actually it guided some of the layouts of the control panels and boards and such. Was there much modification to the ATM once it was decided to go with this fuller-scale workshop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think the instruments were laid out differently. They had more weight and more structure that they could work with. The panel was changed somewhat, but it was undergoing a natural evolution anyway. We had a little more space in which to fit it.\\n\\n Initially the layout of that panel which you controlled it with—that requires a little explanation. With eight different instruments up there, and they all had many different controls and displays that you would see pictures of the sun and being able to take pictures in either a very narrow slice of the sun or the total sun and various X-rays, you always had choices of space, where to take the picture, where it pointed, the wavelength, and then how long you exposed it, and how rapidly. So there were an awful lot of decisions to be made, and that was reflecting the complexity of the control panel. So we found ways to make that as simple as we possibly could and as logical as we possible could, but it took a little doing. So that in itself was a major study, but it worked out well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly seems to have. How did the idea for the ATM come about in the first place?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.135024204447564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, much longer. We made observations over much longer periods than we had originally planned. Twenty-eight, fifty-six, and then eighty-four days, with some observations in between. So maybe we got really a rich harvest of data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were able to do some automated observations, then, when you weren't there? Is that what you mean by in between?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Some. Not much, but some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's certainly good for a continuity—\\n\\n As Skylab was being finalized, as its design was being finalized, the ATM was coming along, and the other experiments began to be worked into the program, Earth observations and medical and many of the others, how did planning for that all come together? I think your crewmates have mentioned the Joint Operating Procedures that were eventually developed to make it all work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.633494977706956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you're going to always be able to take hand-held photography, but you need good instruments up there to do it with, as I was suggesting, infrared, ultraviolet, being able to look at selected wavelengths, and process the data differently than you'd normally do with just a hand-held camera. So that's going to require some dedicated instruments, and that's going to have change a few minds, I think, before that happens, unfortunately, but I think when you look down and you see the diversity of things that you can from orbit—you can spot ocean currents, cold-water upwelling, and some of the more obvious things, hurricanes, and fault zones, and so forth—often you can get a lot of specialized data that you wouldn't otherwise if you were just pointing straight down and shooting by the clock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, Earth observations would certainly seem like a natural, very important application of space operations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you'd think so, and so far most of it's been hand-held photography, other than, of course, the unmanned stuff, which is all valuable and they've done a great job there, but there are some very specialized things that do happen on the face of the Earth that you're going to miss if you don't have someone there to see it, detect it, and figure out how to get data on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will be interesting to see the evolution here now once we have more—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It'll happen in the long term. It'll happen. So eventually it will happen. Whether it takes ten years, fifty years, I don't know, but like all good ideas, you can't keep them down forever. It'll happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully before too long. Hopefully it won't take fifty years.\\n\\n Looking at this and the solar observations, the Earth observations, the medical, and knowing to look for these things, being able to spot things with ocean currents or volcanoes going off and so forth, what sort of scientific training in these different areas did you all receive as a crew that was either generalized or then more specific?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.29674588889949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unfortunately, even though we were up there for 84 days, we were kept pretty busy, so we didn't have a great deal of time to look out the window as much as we liked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that's something that would never grow old."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it really doesn't. I've often thought if there was some way I could get people to experience what we experienced, it would be to have their eyes in orbit and being able to see that view. If you're down here and you take a picture of a rose garden, it's not quite the same as being there, and the same is true of observing Earth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, there's no way to recreate that experience unless you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Some of these IMAX films come close, but it's still not quite the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still that awareness. Well, for one thing, you can still feel the gravity while you're watching the IMAX."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.329717654332768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it really doesn't. I've often thought if there was some way I could get people to experience what we experienced, it would be to have their eyes in orbit and being able to see that view. If you're down here and you take a picture of a rose garden, it's not quite the same as being there, and the same is true of observing Earth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, there's no way to recreate that experience unless you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Some of these IMAX films come close, but it's still not quite the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still that awareness. Well, for one thing, you can still feel the gravity while you're watching the IMAX."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yes. You're not floating by a window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe some day more people will be able to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.58857517148085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Some of these IMAX films come close, but it's still not quite the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's still that awareness. Well, for one thing, you can still feel the gravity while you're watching the IMAX."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yes. You're not floating by a window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe some day more people will be able to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were going along and training for Skylab, at what point were you officially assigned to the crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.542861301645388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yes. You're not floating by a window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe some day more people will be able to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were going along and training for Skylab, at what point were you officially assigned to the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gee, I'm trying to think. I think it was about as year and a half or so before the flight. I'm not positive. About a year and a half before. We all knew we were pretty much lined up because of the way the work was shaping, and there were three of us who were working on the program: Owen Garriott and Joe Kerwin and myself. There were three missions, and it was logical to spread the three of us across them. We just didn't know which was going to go where. Does Joe Kerwin get the mission where the person's up there the longest because that's where you learn the most about medical aspects of long-duration space flight? So maybe Joe was going to go on the last flight? Or do you put him on the first one where he's going to be up there for four weeks and there might be problems encountered that you ought to have someone there to understand what they are? And that's ultimately what they did do. And then Owen was more senior to me, or there was some other reason for Owen going second, and I went third. There was a time there where I thought, well, maybe I got the short straw because Skylab might not hold together for that long. But then when it did hold together that long and we ended up going from 56 to 84 days, I came out and really got the good deal. Again, the right place at the right time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. [Tape interruption]\\n\\n We were just talking about you getting your Skylab assignment and talking some how you, Joe Kerwin, and Owen Garriott were eventually divided up and how it worked out pretty well for you, getting the long mission. When you got your crew assignment, yours was the first rookie crew to go up since the Gemini Program. Did you think anything about that at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.027104133394698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they worked, and we stayed. It had all the minerals and calories and so forth that you needed. So it worked well, and I'm being a little facetious about it, but it worked. It's not an ideal way to make it work, but it did work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I guess for the chance that you had then to be able to have such a unique mission, it balanced out in the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It balanced out, yes. We were running out of other expendables, so we couldn't have stayed up there much longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There also was in the lead-up to knowing whether you were even going to, first, be able to go and then to be able as stay as long, during the second mission they had some problems on the command module and even debated at one point sending up a rescue on that. From some of my research I found that it was actually going to be members from your back-up crew that would fly that rescue if that had needed to happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yes. Yes, the people who were the back-up crews for each of us were, if we weren't going to fly, they would have flown on the flight, but they also were going to fly the rescue mission. So they were training for that rescue mission at all times for each of the three flights. If we had a problem, for example, and they had to rescue us, they would have used the command and service module that later was used for the Apollo-Soyuz. So it was always for the rescue mission you would use the next vehicle coming up. It turned out that they didn't need to do that. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. We were so busy in training. It's one of those things you get a briefing on at the end of the day for five minutes and then get on with your work of training for what you've planned to be your mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's certainly an interesting, well, basically a new concept for the program as a whole, being able to go up and rescue someone. None of the earlier programs would that really have been possible."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.210679435425224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the previous crew had left three dummies in various positions on Skylab, and we kind of laughed about it and thought it was kind of funny. When you opened up the orbital workshop, it was like going into a dark cave, just because it was all dark.\\n\\n It hadn't been lived in for a little while, and we had to go in there and get the lighting and get all that up. So we saw those things and we were really busy trying to get going, and we said, \"We don't have time to take them down now.\" And it was kind of eerie, because you'd see things going over your shoulder. It's like a mannequin next door to you. Your mind tells you it's a person, so it was kind of eerie for a little while, but we liked the joke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Again, that shows some of that spirit between everyone in the corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it was good. I was glad they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming up on Skylab, Bill Pogue became ill, actually, which surprised a lot of people because he had been one of the ones, I think you called him \"Old Iron Ears.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "\"Iron Ears,\" yes. You could never make him sick on the ground. You'd put him in a rotating chair and he'd never get sick. He used to fly for the Thunderbirds, so you figure if there's anybody going to get sick, it'd be Jerry or I, not Bill, which showed that we didn't really understand the problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's something probably they're even still working on to some extent."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 24.678532706028026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it was good. I was glad they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming up on Skylab, Bill Pogue became ill, actually, which surprised a lot of people because he had been one of the ones, I think you called him \"Old Iron Ears.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "\"Iron Ears,\" yes. You could never make him sick on the ground. You'd put him in a rotating chair and he'd never get sick. He used to fly for the Thunderbirds, so you figure if there's anybody going to get sick, it'd be Jerry or I, not Bill, which showed that we didn't really understand the problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's something probably they're even still working on to some extent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are. They've gotten some better medications now, but they still don't fully understand the problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as he became ill, that may have been the beginning of some of the misunderstanding, I guess, between you and—."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.294786368107395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need to establish those things that have to done by ephemerous-related or time-related, because at the point you are over the ground or some other time-related and let that form a backbone, but then you put a shopping list together of all the other things that need doing, maybe with some prioritization, and let the person there use his own best judgment how he gets it done and when he gets it done. And you can bet that they're going to charge full bore and get some satisfactions out of it, as opposed to always trying to figure out how far they are behind the time line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got to take advantage of having the person there and having that human element. Robots can do that regimen and schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think you really need that. The only way you convince people is give them a schedule down here on the ground and make them operate that way for a couple of days. See how effective you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it'd be hard for me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't care how well it's thought out. The real world just doesn't operate that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, you did have a chance to talk with mission control eventually, and even it was everyone hearing it, you were able to work it out, and you'd come to a really good understanding, from what the reports say."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.13288579196372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, people just dreamed it up out of—taken a few facts and then looked at newspaper reports, which were, as you know, rather creative at the time—it made good headlines—and written up. And so they've never gotten a true picture of it. And Cooper, who wrote the book, never talked to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's very unfortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it was unprofessional. The guy should have at least talked to us. He could write what he wants, but he ought to have at least heard what the two sides were. He took Channel B tapes, which is our debriefings of what went on, and then inferred from that what was going on. Well, as you can see, you hit a nerve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, it has, as you said, persisted through the years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it has. Granted, we screwed up on a few occasions, but it was a total misunderstanding of what was really going on in how to operate a space station. And I just hope out of some those experiences that the current space station is going to be able to benefit. My belief is that it's a whole new world of people and lessons learned. I think the one lesson you learn from history is that no one pays attention to the lessons learned. So I'm afraid we're going to learn that one all over again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll hope that with a project like ours, maybe there'll be a chance to have some of the those lessons learned, somebody listen to them and apply them, hopefully, because it certainly is very valuable to know and to build off of your experience so no one else has to. And that'll just make things more efficient in the long run and run better.\\n\\n But you did get everything running well, and you did get communications going well with the ground, and by the end of the mission, as you said, you accomplished a great deal of science and got everything done that had been intended. Tell us about some of the things that you were doing there. We've talked a little bit about the [Apollo] Telescope Mount. Was there a typical day for you once you got through this period of trying to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.90942402405412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Oh, yes, very much so. We're going to Mars. Do you want a rotating space station so you have gravity, so you can make sure that you have healthy bones, not only when you get to Mars, but also when you come back? Yes, there's a lot to be learned there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you would participate in these experiments every day then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day you do the getting ready and then you have four types of experiments going. Either it was the ATM—we each took a couple of passes, orbits. I usually got more than the others. Then there was the medical experiments we all had to do, either be a subject or an operator. Earth Resources Experiment Package, when we went to Z-local-vertical, so we had to study the Earth. Or then there was a whole host of corollary experiments, medical.\\n\\n The high school experiments, too, those were interesting. High school students proposed things to do, like what happens to a spider in flight, or in zero gravity. It took a little while, but eventually it built a web, but it was pretty confused there at the beginning. Fish, what do they do? So we had a little container of fish. Actually, the second flight was the one that did the most for that. They swim around in little circles, like an aviator's outside loops, because they don't have gravity. Yes, there was a whole host of little things like that that were interesting, and other corollary experiments.\\n\\n Then there was the hand-held photography. Aside from the ATM, that's what I enjoyed the most. The Earth is so fascinating. There's something different coming over the horizon all the time, and the more you look at it, the more you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did have free time, did you spend a lot of time looking out—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Looking out the window, yes. Yes, we all did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly was only something you were going to be able to do for so long."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.999288918585332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Looking out the window, yes. Yes, we all did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly was only something you were going to be able to do for so long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, unfortunately. At the same time, we did have a little time to just think about that aspect of we were going to do it for so long. And it seemed like a very natural place to be, to be up orbiting Earth. Now, maybe you can't picture it, but after you've worked for it for such a long period and you finally do it and you're up there for a couple of months, you being to think of it as a very natural phase. It's like going camping, where the first couple of days takes a little getting used to, and after a couple of weeks you feel at home, and after maybe a month or so, it's just another phase of your life. And that's what it was for us. You think eventually you're going to have hundreds of people up here doing the same thing, thousands. So we were just glad to be one of the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A testament to the human adaptability, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly were very fortunate to have that opportunity."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.22143213176148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, unfortunately. At the same time, we did have a little time to just think about that aspect of we were going to do it for so long. And it seemed like a very natural place to be, to be up orbiting Earth. Now, maybe you can't picture it, but after you've worked for it for such a long period and you finally do it and you're up there for a couple of months, you being to think of it as a very natural phase. It's like going camping, where the first couple of days takes a little getting used to, and after a couple of weeks you feel at home, and after maybe a month or so, it's just another phase of your life. And that's what it was for us. You think eventually you're going to have hundreds of people up here doing the same thing, thousands. So we were just glad to be one of the first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A testament to the human adaptability, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly were very fortunate to have that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mission, you also had a chance to go out on EVA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 13.579369035290533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly were very fortunate to have that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, very much so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mission, you also had a chance to go out on EVA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, the great outdoors. Loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have truly been a unique experience."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.503839407545392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I've tried to give you that analogy, but that's the best analogy I could give you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very good analogy, a very good analogy. I can imagine being held out, and I guess it is that sense of not being enclosed anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're not enclosed. You're not part of anything any longer. In an airplane you feel part of; you're inside the airplane. But you were hanging from the bottom of the airplane you might feel different about that height."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I guess it's more natural being inside and enclosed and you know that support's there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You get that feeling also, I've since gone skydiving with my sons, and you get that feeling when you step out the door sometimes. That first step is a long way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's hard for you to make your body make that first step."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.22648823060599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're not enclosed. You're not part of anything any longer. In an airplane you feel part of; you're inside the airplane. But you were hanging from the bottom of the airplane you might feel different about that height."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I guess it's more natural being inside and enclosed and you know that support's there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You get that feeling also, I've since gone skydiving with my sons, and you get that feeling when you step out the door sometimes. That first step is a long way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's hard for you to make your body make that first step."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You get that same feeling with an EVA when you move away from the spacecraft. That's why really I think Bruce McCandless [II] and all those guys who have flown the MMU [Manned Maneuvering Unit], that must have been a great experience. I don't know to this day whether they felt that, with this thing on their back, it felt as though they were driving a little sports car out there or whether they felt like we did, just you and the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably pretty similar, I would imagine, since there was nothing enclosing—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.029431367339988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You get that feeling also, I've since gone skydiving with my sons, and you get that feeling when you step out the door sometimes. That first step is a long way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's hard for you to make your body make that first step."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You get that same feeling with an EVA when you move away from the spacecraft. That's why really I think Bruce McCandless [II] and all those guys who have flown the MMU [Manned Maneuvering Unit], that must have been a great experience. I don't know to this day whether they felt that, with this thing on their back, it felt as though they were driving a little sports car out there or whether they felt like we did, just you and the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably pretty similar, I would imagine, since there was nothing enclosing—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it'd have to be. Yes, it's just getting away to where you don't feel part of the structure around you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even from Bruce McCandless being able to see that structure off in the distance looking back toward the Shuttle and truly recognizing that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.921590408155541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. You get that same feeling with an EVA when you move away from the spacecraft. That's why really I think Bruce McCandless [II] and all those guys who have flown the MMU [Manned Maneuvering Unit], that must have been a great experience. I don't know to this day whether they felt that, with this thing on their back, it felt as though they were driving a little sports car out there or whether they felt like we did, just you and the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's probably pretty similar, I would imagine, since there was nothing enclosing—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it'd have to be. Yes, it's just getting away to where you don't feel part of the structure around you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even from Bruce McCandless being able to see that structure off in the distance looking back toward the Shuttle and truly recognizing that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we were talking about that feeling. He didn't realize that when we were up there how stable that space station was and how much of it felt like a home in the sky until we finally left it and got into the command module. And as soon as we undocked from the command module, all of a sudden we're in this little sporty vehicle that we really maneuver, and I thought, \"Hey, we're flying again.\" And all this time, of course, we'd been flying. It was spaceflight all the time, but all of a sudden we're in this little sports car. It's like going out to your car, out of your house and going into your garage and getting into a sports car and you get back on the road again. Well, that's what we felt when we left it. And I thought, \"Gee, that's great.\" That space station felt so stable. It felt so much like a home in the sky that we felt completely at home there, very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That's really good. Hopefully that perception will continue for [International] Space Station, and that'll help—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.801767120172823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it'd have to be. Yes, it's just getting away to where you don't feel part of the structure around you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even from Bruce McCandless being able to see that structure off in the distance looking back toward the Shuttle and truly recognizing that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we were talking about that feeling. He didn't realize that when we were up there how stable that space station was and how much of it felt like a home in the sky until we finally left it and got into the command module. And as soon as we undocked from the command module, all of a sudden we're in this little sporty vehicle that we really maneuver, and I thought, \"Hey, we're flying again.\" And all this time, of course, we'd been flying. It was spaceflight all the time, but all of a sudden we're in this little sports car. It's like going out to your car, out of your house and going into your garage and getting into a sports car and you get back on the road again. Well, that's what we felt when we left it. And I thought, \"Gee, that's great.\" That space station felt so stable. It felt so much like a home in the sky that we felt completely at home there, very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That's really good. Hopefully that perception will continue for [International] Space Station, and that'll help—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure it will and even much more so because this thing is so large and massive. I'm sure people will have that feeling. I'm sure they did with Mir, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's so big you could not see somebody for the whole day, from what we've heard. Very different experience."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.866379160707186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure it will and even much more so because this thing is so large and massive. I'm sure people will have that feeling. I'm sure they did with Mir, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's so big you could not see somebody for the whole day, from what we've heard. Very different experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, actually they lost me for one morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, the Skylab had several different compartments, and I was in the orbital workshop and I was trying to find some of the old procedures that the previous crew had used for something. So I was behind the freezers where they had put all that data. Jerry and Bill were looking for me, and they just glanced in the orbital workshop and didn't see me. They looked out and said, \"Hey, the command module's still here. He hasn't left. So where is he? The door's not open.\" So I finally meandered up and they said, \"Where have you been?\" So, it could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty good. That's certainly not something you would expect, to lose a fellow crew member."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.073754623007984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, actually they lost me for one morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, the Skylab had several different compartments, and I was in the orbital workshop and I was trying to find some of the old procedures that the previous crew had used for something. So I was behind the freezers where they had put all that data. Jerry and Bill were looking for me, and they just glanced in the orbital workshop and didn't see me. They looked out and said, \"Hey, the command module's still here. He hasn't left. So where is he? The door's not open.\" So I finally meandered up and they said, \"Where have you been?\" So, it could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty good. That's certainly not something you would expect, to lose a fellow crew member."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a pretty large area, volume, that we had in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were able to enjoy that volume to some extent with being able to do various acrobatic-type—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.415282914453314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I mean, the Skylab had several different compartments, and I was in the orbital workshop and I was trying to find some of the old procedures that the previous crew had used for something. So I was behind the freezers where they had put all that data. Jerry and Bill were looking for me, and they just glanced in the orbital workshop and didn't see me. They looked out and said, \"Hey, the command module's still here. He hasn't left. So where is he? The door's not open.\" So I finally meandered up and they said, \"Where have you been?\" So, it could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty good. That's certainly not something you would expect, to lose a fellow crew member."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a pretty large area, volume, that we had in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were able to enjoy that volume to some extent with being able to do various acrobatic-type—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your mission, was there any one point that was your—well, I guess, looking out at the Earth, was that your favorite part of everything that went into it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.905869904948126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a pretty large area, volume, that we had in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were able to enjoy that volume to some extent with being able to do various acrobatic-type—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your mission, was there any one point that was your—well, I guess, looking out at the Earth, was that your favorite part of everything that went into it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when I look back on it, there are several things. One is this totally integrated enjoyment of looking back at the Earth and realizing that you're just on the forefront of something which is going to grow and become much larger in the future. Another was the space walks, for what we accomplished as well as just working in that environment. And the last was some of the good science that was done and being able to use your human ingenuity, not to be a button-pusher, but to exert some human judgment into how you did the experiments and then improve the quality of what was brought back. So all those things, those were real satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly something to be proud of and to be glad to be a part of."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.562077672164584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your mission, was there any one point that was your—well, I guess, looking out at the Earth, was that your favorite part of everything that went into it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, when I look back on it, there are several things. One is this totally integrated enjoyment of looking back at the Earth and realizing that you're just on the forefront of something which is going to grow and become much larger in the future. Another was the space walks, for what we accomplished as well as just working in that environment. And the last was some of the good science that was done and being able to use your human ingenuity, not to be a button-pusher, but to exert some human judgment into how you did the experiments and then improve the quality of what was brought back. So all those things, those were real satisfying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly something to be proud of and to be glad to be a part of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, just glad to be a part of it. I today just realize how lucky I was to be in the right spot at the right time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As your mission came to a close, this was one of the first missions since early on with some of the early Gemini missions that hadn't been covered extensively by the media. In fact, they didn't even cover the return. Did you have any thoughts on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.159592325296924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it is. You go out and you go around the next bend, you've got to see what's there. You go over the next mountain, you've got to see what's there. You go across the ocean, and finally into the air, and now into space, and you realize, look out how many stars are out there. Terence Dickinson wrote a book, excellent book, called The Universe and Beyond, and in there he cites from a probability standpoint a number of star systems that have planets out there, numbers like all the grains of sand on the beaches of the whole world. So, you know, to think it in those numbers, you say, \"We're not unique.\" There's other forms of life out there, and it's only a question of time and distance, and eventually we will find other life or they will find us. I'm not UFO'er or anything, but the odds are so overwhelming. And let's get on with it and let's not spend much of our gross national product on it, but let's get serious about it. Let's get on with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's an infinite universe. There's so much possibility out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it really is, and we got the stepping stones called planets, and, you know, let's move on from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we are on the way, slowly, but we are on the way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are. At least we're still moving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shortly after coming back from Skylab, you chose to move on from NASA, in fact, to be able to work some more of the information that you had been able to bring back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.955102583663248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it really is, and we got the stepping stones called planets, and, you know, let's move on from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we are on the way, slowly, but we are on the way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are. At least we're still moving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shortly after coming back from Skylab, you chose to move on from NASA, in fact, to be able to work some more of the information that you had been able to bring back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. There was not much happening when I came back. So I said, \"Well, why don't I go work on some of the Skylab data for a while,\" which I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been an interesting time period for you to have first been on the Skylab doing that work and then being able to come back and spend so much time at it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.95011398184805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are. At least we're still moving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shortly after coming back from Skylab, you chose to move on from NASA, in fact, to be able to work some more of the information that you had been able to bring back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. There was not much happening when I came back. So I said, \"Well, why don't I go work on some of the Skylab data for a while,\" which I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been an interesting time period for you to have first been on the Skylab doing that work and then being able to come back and spend so much time at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. That was gratifying, to take it from one end to the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not many astronauts even had that opportunity."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 22.1667933131645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. There was not much happening when I came back. So I said, \"Well, why don't I go work on some of the Skylab data for a while,\" which I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been an interesting time period for you to have first been on the Skylab doing that work and then being able to come back and spend so much time at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. That was gratifying, to take it from one end to the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not many astronauts even had that opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you came back to NASA, you worked with a group in Germany. Is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.990692445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, I was in charge of the new candidates that came in, all of them across the board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like in comparison to your days when you had been going through the training initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was good because I was sensitive to what we had experienced, especially as scientists coming in, and I knew anybody coming in the program is somewhat intimidated when they come in the front door, and yet they're all real fast burners and really capable people. So your job is to make them feel comfortable and get them going doing something productive, because if you don't, if you give them just busy work, they'll see through that in a second. So make them feel comfortable and give them something worthwhile to do and make sure that their training is efficient. And that was satisfying. I enjoyed doing that because I know how we were viewed when we came in and what happened to us, and I said these guys shouldn't see the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly the views on scientists and on science in general for the space program have changed since the beginning as the goals and as the program has grown. Science now has a much higher emphasis in the program than it did before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, now you regard the breakdown of the classes—what, 46 or so, where 40% are pilots, 60% are mission specialists of one kind or another. People do realize that the objective of this whole thing is to accomplish things in orbit, many of them scientific, and you ought to have the right people up there. We have still yet to learn the lesson of how to make it most productive, though. But that'll come with time. That will come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully now we will have lots of time to almost experiment with that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.630484500000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, now you regard the breakdown of the classes—what, 46 or so, where 40% are pilots, 60% are mission specialists of one kind or another. People do realize that the objective of this whole thing is to accomplish things in orbit, many of them scientific, and you ought to have the right people up there. We have still yet to learn the lesson of how to make it most productive, though. But that'll come with time. That will come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully now we will have lots of time to almost experiment with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we saw the natural progression in Skylab. Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz, much to his credit, said toward the end of our flight, \"Just give them a couple of days off. Let them do whatever they want.\" And it was great. I took a Sunday off and I worked the ATM figuring out what I needed to do and then coordinated with the guys on the ground and went off and did it, and it was one of the most satisfying experiences up there, because it was no longer just trying to work to see how close you could get to where you were supposed to be and not be behind, but you really get ahead of it. It was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to flex your mind as well as just trying to keep up with things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you did move on from NASA on that last stage as Shuttle was coming into view and since, unfortunately, the station was more than a few years down the road ultimately, what did you move on to next?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.367205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we saw the natural progression in Skylab. Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz, much to his credit, said toward the end of our flight, \"Just give them a couple of days off. Let them do whatever they want.\" And it was great. I took a Sunday off and I worked the ATM figuring out what I needed to do and then coordinated with the guys on the ground and went off and did it, and it was one of the most satisfying experiences up there, because it was no longer just trying to work to see how close you could get to where you were supposed to be and not be behind, but you really get ahead of it. It was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to flex your mind as well as just trying to keep up with things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you did move on from NASA on that last stage as Shuttle was coming into view and since, unfortunately, the station was more than a few years down the road ultimately, what did you move on to next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to TRW, which is technically a very high-powered place, in California, worked on all their energy projects. At that time, if you recall, we had the energy crunch on. So I figured, okay, that's one of the larger challenges that our nation has right now, is alternate energy. So I did that for quite a few years and then the price of oil came back down, and, unfortunately, a lot of emphasis came off those things. But it was enjoyable while I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at some point along the road you got interested in writing science fiction."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.85245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when you did move on from NASA on that last stage as Shuttle was coming into view and since, unfortunately, the station was more than a few years down the road ultimately, what did you move on to next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to TRW, which is technically a very high-powered place, in California, worked on all their energy projects. At that time, if you recall, we had the energy crunch on. So I figured, okay, that's one of the larger challenges that our nation has right now, is alternate energy. So I did that for quite a few years and then the price of oil came back down, and, unfortunately, a lot of emphasis came off those things. But it was enjoyable while I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at some point along the road you got interested in writing science fiction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, see, I had written that textbook and I knew how hard it was, because every fact had to be right and it had to be explained exactly. And I thought, gee, wouldn't it great some day to just sit down and you don't have to worry about facts or anything, just sit down and let it flow. By God, you ought to be able to rip a novel off in week, two weeks, no problem. And so I thought I'd give it a try, and I found that it isn't quite the way it works. But, nonetheless, it was really an enjoyable experience. It was a very creative experience, and I was always looking for something creative to do, and that was my outlet, because I'd find some of the things that I was doing, whether it was at TRW or others, where a lot of it was bureaucratic, unfortunately, even though you're working on the end result is very noble and very worthwhile, but the process for getting, many times creativity is left out of the picture. So I needed an outlet, and so I'd do that, and it was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure you were at least able to put some of your experiences with the space program into play."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.2805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to TRW, which is technically a very high-powered place, in California, worked on all their energy projects. At that time, if you recall, we had the energy crunch on. So I figured, okay, that's one of the larger challenges that our nation has right now, is alternate energy. So I did that for quite a few years and then the price of oil came back down, and, unfortunately, a lot of emphasis came off those things. But it was enjoyable while I did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at some point along the road you got interested in writing science fiction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, see, I had written that textbook and I knew how hard it was, because every fact had to be right and it had to be explained exactly. And I thought, gee, wouldn't it great some day to just sit down and you don't have to worry about facts or anything, just sit down and let it flow. By God, you ought to be able to rip a novel off in week, two weeks, no problem. And so I thought I'd give it a try, and I found that it isn't quite the way it works. But, nonetheless, it was really an enjoyable experience. It was a very creative experience, and I was always looking for something creative to do, and that was my outlet, because I'd find some of the things that I was doing, whether it was at TRW or others, where a lot of it was bureaucratic, unfortunately, even though you're working on the end result is very noble and very worthwhile, but the process for getting, many times creativity is left out of the picture. So I needed an outlet, and so I'd do that, and it was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure you were at least able to put some of your experiences with the space program into play."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did in the first novel, called Reach. I thought it was a good way to explain to people what it's really like to fly and do in a way which—no one wants to hear the Ed Gibson story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, see, I had written that textbook and I knew how hard it was, because every fact had to be right and it had to be explained exactly. And I thought, gee, wouldn't it great some day to just sit down and you don't have to worry about facts or anything, just sit down and let it flow. By God, you ought to be able to rip a novel off in week, two weeks, no problem. And so I thought I'd give it a try, and I found that it isn't quite the way it works. But, nonetheless, it was really an enjoyable experience. It was a very creative experience, and I was always looking for something creative to do, and that was my outlet, because I'd find some of the things that I was doing, whether it was at TRW or others, where a lot of it was bureaucratic, unfortunately, even though you're working on the end result is very noble and very worthwhile, but the process for getting, many times creativity is left out of the picture. So I needed an outlet, and so I'd do that, and it was enjoyable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure you were at least able to put some of your experiences with the space program into play."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did in the first novel, called Reach. I thought it was a good way to explain to people what it's really like to fly and do in a way which—no one wants to hear the Ed Gibson story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, but I mean seriously. Maybe the Al Shepard story or the John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] story, but, you know, by the time we came along, people didn't even know who we were. But I still was interested in trying to get across to people what it was like to fly, so I put a lot of that in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a unique avenue to move into, and another new challenge for you, as you said."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.05, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did in the first novel, called Reach. I thought it was a good way to explain to people what it's really like to fly and do in a way which—no one wants to hear the Ed Gibson story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, but I mean seriously. Maybe the Al Shepard story or the John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] story, but, you know, by the time we came along, people didn't even know who we were. But I still was interested in trying to get across to people what it was like to fly, so I put a lot of that in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a unique avenue to move into, and another new challenge for you, as you said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, that's right. Another. If the hill's not there, you've got to create your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always good to have those hills and those challenges. Looking back over your whole career with the space program in particular, what do you consider was your biggest challenge?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, but I mean seriously. Maybe the Al Shepard story or the John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] story, but, you know, by the time we came along, people didn't even know who we were. But I still was interested in trying to get across to people what it was like to fly, so I put a lot of that in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a unique avenue to move into, and another new challenge for you, as you said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, that's right. Another. If the hill's not there, you've got to create your own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always good to have those hills and those challenges. Looking back over your whole career with the space program in particular, what do you consider was your biggest challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the biggest challenge was that huge step up that I faced when we first got into the program, was to become technically competent, learn all you had to about spacecraft and how to make it fly, the public relations, working alongside people who you regarded as legends at the very beginning. It was one heck of a challenge.\\n\\n I mean, you're down here and you look at where you've got to be is up here, and that's a pretty high step to climb, and you were just scrambling every day trying to figure out if you were ever going to get there and how to do it. So that was probably the biggest challenge. I mean, you had to balance all these things, the technical side, the public relations side, the human interaction side, and still try to keep some semblance of a family together. Fortunately, my wife did a great job there. So I think without having a supporting wife, I couldn't have done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family take all of your activities in the space program and adapt to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00207:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I've said many times that if it wasn't me, it would have someone else who would have gone through and done the whole thing. So I'd have to say what did I bring to it that was unique? I think it was that I had this background from Caltech and had a real good understanding of physics in some areas and then applied it in solar physics. Then I also had an athletic background, so I was able to work all these things in together and apply it to the astronaut program.\\n\\n I think that's an accomplishment, being able to bring all those things together and perform at a certain level of excellence that someone else may not have because they didn't have the same background or the same inherent wiring in their brain structure, whatever it is. But I thought perhaps that was something that I was unique in and was able to contribute in that one area. So, you know, I was in the right place at the right time. If they'd asked to be an opera singer, it would have been all over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you certainly did have all the right stuff, in a sense, to make it all happen and to make quite a unique contribution, and we certainly appreciate you sharing that with us today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that you can think of that we didn't touch on, that you'd like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, other than that, as I said many times, I was just glad to be in that spot, because since then you realize when you're not in such a privileged spot, how difficult it is sometimes to make an impact the way you'd like to. There you just had everything going for you. The wind was at your back all the way. It was a great opportunity. And then you get a lot of people, my wife in particular, who supported me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I thank you for the opportunity of letting me talk to you today. It's been a pleasure for me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:0", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.282356155872767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My name is Benny Cespedes. When did I join the Peace Corps? Also, it was like something new and probably it was more a spirit of adventure that I joined the Peace Corps. I do not remember this time exactly what it was all about. I thought I at the first chance I took the what do you call the picture? Let me explain it to us in what was April or May. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When it was created, when the Peace Corps was created?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was established in 1961."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and this is Jeff Liu. Today is June 22nd, 2019. I'm interviewing Benny and his experience in Pakistan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, will you repeat again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, what was life like before the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:2", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.516263588302836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was established in 1961."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and this is Jeff Liu. Today is June 22nd, 2019. I'm interviewing Benny and his experience in Pakistan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, will you repeat again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, what was life like before the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "</TIMESTAMP>00:01:27</TIMESTAMP> What was life like before the Peace Corps? What were you doing? That's a big question.\n\nYeah, exactly. I was going to school at the time. I was working in the post office during summer camp and I was planning to go back to college and taking my degree in mechanical engineering. I had a major in electrical engineering and that's I was a student. So that was how life was when before I joined the Peace Corps"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your family life like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.018070653669819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, will you repeat again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, what was life like before the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "</TIMESTAMP>00:01:27</TIMESTAMP> What was life like before the Peace Corps? What were you doing? That's a big question.\n\nYeah, exactly. I was going to school at the time. I was working in the post office during summer camp and I was planning to go back to college and taking my degree in mechanical engineering. I had a major in electrical engineering and that's I was a student. So that was how life was when before I joined the Peace Corps"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your family life like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family or in the Philippines? Yeah, I was all by myself in the states are going. Yeah, I had a friend in Ohio or my me on Guam, but he was teaching a picture of who you were working and you were working on Guam, I think. Yeah. When you met him. I worked with in Guam.\n\nYeah. You were working in Guam.\n\nRun that course before I went on the stage, before I went to Indiana to go to school using my GI Bill of Rights, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.686745170744242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "</TIMESTAMP>00:01:27</TIMESTAMP> What was life like before the Peace Corps? What were you doing? That's a big question.\n\nYeah, exactly. I was going to school at the time. I was working in the post office during summer camp and I was planning to go back to college and taking my degree in mechanical engineering. I had a major in electrical engineering and that's I was a student. So that was how life was when before I joined the Peace Corps"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your family life like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family or in the Philippines? Yeah, I was all by myself in the states are going. Yeah, I had a friend in Ohio or my me on Guam, but he was teaching a picture of who you were working and you were working on Guam, I think. Yeah. When you met him. I worked with in Guam.\n\nYeah. You were working in Guam.\n\nRun that course before I went on the stage, before I went to Indiana to go to school using my GI Bill of Rights, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I have to remember, I think it was, I don't remember what it was on the television or radio or newspaper. I really don't remember, it was most probably a based on"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the Peace Corps when you heard about it on the television?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.540827967493602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My family or in the Philippines? Yeah, I was all by myself in the states are going. Yeah, I had a friend in Ohio or my me on Guam, but he was teaching a picture of who you were working and you were working on Guam, I think. Yeah. When you met him. I worked with in Guam.\n\nYeah. You were working in Guam.\n\nRun that course before I went on the stage, before I went to Indiana to go to school using my GI Bill of Rights, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. How did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I have to remember, I think it was, I don't remember what it was on the television or radio or newspaper. I really don't remember, it was most probably a based on"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the Peace Corps when you heard about it on the television?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was something that people can do to help other people in other countries. And I believe that at that time, I'd like to speak about a group of people who they felt they, despite this, I decided to make a change may mean it will not change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.334355515424196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I have to remember, I think it was, I don't remember what it was on the television or radio or newspaper. I really don't remember, it was most probably a based on"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about the Peace Corps when you heard about it on the television?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was something that people can do to help other people in other countries. And I believe that at that time, I'd like to speak about a group of people who they felt they, despite this, I decided to make a change may mean it will not change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take you to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.260395017137995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was something that people can do to help other people in other countries. And I believe that at that time, I'd like to speak about a group of people who they felt they, despite this, I decided to make a change may mean it will not change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take you to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "61 and 29. I was 32. Medical at 32. I was 31. At that time, I just don't don't granddad, my dad, my the chairman of the electrical department and get my degree in engineering so I didn't have to go back to school, I was stuck at 3/4 hours at that time.\n\n[inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Can you introduce yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.95599446348666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take you to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "61 and 29. I was 32. Medical at 32. I was 31. At that time, I just don't don't granddad, my dad, my the chairman of the electrical department and get my degree in engineering so I didn't have to go back to school, I was stuck at 3/4 hours at that time.\n\n[inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Can you introduce yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This is Carol Cespedes, Benny’s wife. I'm sitting here because Benny is hard of hearing. And I was also in Pakistan, although not a Peace Corps volunteer. I just coached Benny or Jeff to say something about Benny’s service in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about the application process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 17.7288827372074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "61 and 29. I was 32. Medical at 32. I was 31. At that time, I just don't don't granddad, my dad, my the chairman of the electrical department and get my degree in engineering so I didn't have to go back to school, I was stuck at 3/4 hours at that time.\n\n[inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Can you introduce yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This is Carol Cespedes, Benny’s wife. I'm sitting here because Benny is hard of hearing. And I was also in Pakistan, although not a Peace Corps volunteer. I just coached Benny or Jeff to say something about Benny’s service in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, application process, like the Peace Corps? Yes, well, I out that I think the best days I took them or whatever. Um, uh. I don't know what I like getting the firms to work experience and so forth in the background, and I forgot all about that actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they interview you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.809869708008224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. This is Carol Cespedes, Benny’s wife. I'm sitting here because Benny is hard of hearing. And I was also in Pakistan, although not a Peace Corps volunteer. I just coached Benny or Jeff to say something about Benny’s service in the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about the application process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, application process, like the Peace Corps? Yes, well, I out that I think the best days I took them or whatever. Um, uh. I don't know what I like getting the firms to work experience and so forth in the background, and I forgot all about that actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they interview you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when I first filled out the first thing it was in March or April. And I went to work for the post office. And then I got a telegram from Shriver at that time with people that were invited to training. OK, I'm amazed that you are yet accepted by what? Medical training? And by the same time, I had a job offer a technical writer for a company in Silver Spring, Maryland. So I was in a quandary and I asked my friend in Ohio, what's his opinion, what would you do. And he said, take the Peace Corps, whichever one you take, you'll regret it. He recommended that the Peace Corps. So I thought they accepted the invitation, the training which took place to take place in the Fort Collins. And then in Colorado, I mean, University of Colorado in Fort Collins, Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. This was in 1961?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:24", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.899855231120249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, application process, like the Peace Corps? Yes, well, I out that I think the best days I took them or whatever. Um, uh. I don't know what I like getting the firms to work experience and so forth in the background, and I forgot all about that actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they interview you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when I first filled out the first thing it was in March or April. And I went to work for the post office. And then I got a telegram from Shriver at that time with people that were invited to training. OK, I'm amazed that you are yet accepted by what? Medical training? And by the same time, I had a job offer a technical writer for a company in Silver Spring, Maryland. So I was in a quandary and I asked my friend in Ohio, what's his opinion, what would you do. And he said, take the Peace Corps, whichever one you take, you'll regret it. He recommended that the Peace Corps. So I thought they accepted the invitation, the training which took place to take place in the Fort Collins. And then in Colorado, I mean, University of Colorado in Fort Collins, Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. This was in 1961?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1961 August, August. I understand that our group was the number nine to go and training and number seven to go overseas where we were posted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seventh to go to Pakistan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.840679329383057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when I first filled out the first thing it was in March or April. And I went to work for the post office. And then I got a telegram from Shriver at that time with people that were invited to training. OK, I'm amazed that you are yet accepted by what? Medical training? And by the same time, I had a job offer a technical writer for a company in Silver Spring, Maryland. So I was in a quandary and I asked my friend in Ohio, what's his opinion, what would you do. And he said, take the Peace Corps, whichever one you take, you'll regret it. He recommended that the Peace Corps. So I thought they accepted the invitation, the training which took place to take place in the Fort Collins. And then in Colorado, I mean, University of Colorado in Fort Collins, Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. This was in 1961?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1961 August, August. I understand that our group was the number nine to go and training and number seven to go overseas where we were posted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seventh to go to Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seventh to go to Pakistan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.378532588203397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1961 August, August. I understand that our group was the number nine to go and training and number seven to go overseas where we were posted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seventh to go to Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seventh to go to Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, seven to go.\n\nNo, the seventh to leave the US. First group in Pakistan.\n\nFirst number nine to the training and seven to go overseas where I'm at the posting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was training like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.753925098003775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seventh to go to Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, seven to go.\n\nNo, the seventh to leave the US. First group in Pakistan.\n\nFirst number nine to the training and seven to go overseas where I'm at the posting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my training was like your language lab. I don't remember this one lavatory about two hours in the language club then classroom work. And we were of course briefed on the history of Pakistan culture. We still have like the Asian fascism, capitalism, socialism and all that good. And then we had the physical training, swimming, and I mean, they poured in and we had a rough riding. At the end of the day, they expect me to care for the stadium, the roads we get run"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Run up the chairs and down the chairs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.495096156383777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my training was like your language lab. I don't remember this one lavatory about two hours in the language club then classroom work. And we were of course briefed on the history of Pakistan culture. We still have like the Asian fascism, capitalism, socialism and all that good. And then we had the physical training, swimming, and I mean, they poured in and we had a rough riding. At the end of the day, they expect me to care for the stadium, the roads we get run"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Run up the chairs and down the chairs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was of the day, you know, stairs. And that was just in for college. And then after that, we had a selection. There were 20 or 30 or 32. There were thirty two of us who were invited between me and four were the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four, four, three, two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you were one of four."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.994551284870864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was of the day, you know, stairs. And that was just in for college. And then after that, we had a selection. There were 20 or 30 or 32. There were thirty two of us who were invited between me and four were the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four, four, three, two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you were one of four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. He was, four were deselected. Four of them were bumped.\n\nAnd after that training we had about one week to go to her home course. My case, I went to high and then after that were we to Puerto Rico for the whole day kind of feeling this very day like this physical conditioning, conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, how long was training the first one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.660612538745404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four, four, three, two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, you were one of four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. He was, four were deselected. Four of them were bumped.\n\nAnd after that training we had about one week to go to her home course. My case, I went to high and then after that were we to Puerto Rico for the whole day kind of feeling this very day like this physical conditioning, conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, how long was training the first one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first part of training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.067347265272673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. He was, four were deselected. Four of them were bumped.\n\nAnd after that training we had about one week to go to her home course. My case, I went to high and then after that were we to Puerto Rico for the whole day kind of feeling this very day like this physical conditioning, conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, how long was training the first one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first part of training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. They started in August and we went up to August, September, I think mid-October. Yeah, but the thing about mid October, birthmothers, OK, and we spent one one month in in Puerto Rico, more land restringing and there is a bit less physical conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in physical condition?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.408163628080748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first part of training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How long was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. They started in August and we went up to August, September, I think mid-October. Yeah, but the thing about mid October, birthmothers, OK, and we spent one one month in in Puerto Rico, more land restringing and there is a bit less physical conditioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in physical condition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, running. And we ran and ran. And I get to do I don't know. But up here, I don't know how long to room. I was going to kneel down and then we will be so quick. Rob. Well, training was a privilege. No problem. I think you need university in your research camp and you know that I consider the premier to your arm. And he swam for two hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tie your arms and you swam for two hours."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.79531624121394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the route. And then I decide where they were supposed to cross the lake where the water was. I guess, like, I don't know what we're going to least it's going to get in the way recently. And when we report that actually when we we're walking back, people in the camp come out and we told them we are. And I said, you are not going to let me walk through that head. Yeah. When we got back to the camp for that, the guy who used to. Have you heard about the Bob? What's that? No, I thought this is a conditioning program that was initiated in England. People up and can make this happen or that they now can cut your own phone. So that Hanaway, he has said how to get you across the lake and the day. But I have the other thing. Why do we cross the lake with across the lake and the guy is done. His face turned red. I’ll always remember that. You won’t get too many points for this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t cross the lake."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supposed to take. You know what, if we followed, we were supposed to go on the other side of the lake and cross by boat. Yeah, because we think we've got to be sure. Yes. Have the boat and drinking beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time it was supposed to be dry season. But in November in Puerto Rico was supposed to be the dry season. Let me cut deals. Yeah. Rain, rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots of rain. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.858415112609801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were supposed to take. You know what, if we followed, we were supposed to go on the other side of the lake and cross by boat. Yeah, because we think we've got to be sure. Yes. Have the boat and drinking beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time it was supposed to be dry season. But in November in Puerto Rico was supposed to be the dry season. Let me cut deals. Yeah. Rain, rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots of rain. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what are they doing here? Get them back of the plane. Our language instructor in that girl again, she's the Pakistani woman and so freaking. I know. Met her in the swimming pool. I don't know how I and I, she made her job in particular. We did so well with her. Sorry. Oh sorry. Yeah. Because they don't crazy. Because they are not aware of that culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was language training like? What was language training like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.953794569566446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time it was supposed to be dry season. But in November in Puerto Rico was supposed to be the dry season. Let me cut deals. Yeah. Rain, rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots of rain. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what are they doing here? Get them back of the plane. Our language instructor in that girl again, she's the Pakistani woman and so freaking. I know. Met her in the swimming pool. I don't know how I and I, she made her job in particular. We did so well with her. Sorry. Oh sorry. Yeah. Because they don't crazy. Because they are not aware of that culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was language training like? What was language training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was it like? What was it like? How was it?\n\nI have to say something totally different of course could have happened, that sound, and it has no relation at all to Amy's or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, why did you think Peace Corps training was like this? Why did you think Peace Corps training was like this during your time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.17088285507383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And what are they doing here? Get them back of the plane. Our language instructor in that girl again, she's the Pakistani woman and so freaking. I know. Met her in the swimming pool. I don't know how I and I, she made her job in particular. We did so well with her. Sorry. Oh sorry. Yeah. Because they don't crazy. Because they are not aware of that culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was language training like? What was language training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was it like? What was it like? How was it?\n\nI have to say something totally different of course could have happened, that sound, and it has no relation at all to Amy's or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, why did you think Peace Corps training was like this? Why did you think Peace Corps training was like this during your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language. Well, you know why they to stay in power for a while, training the perfect volunteers chase after us. I don't know how certain they were trained. I like to maybe do a quick like in the country where, yes, you're working. Perhaps you'll get trained that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I did training in country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.967647616748699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was it like? What was it like? How was it?\n\nI have to say something totally different of course could have happened, that sound, and it has no relation at all to Amy's or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, why did you think Peace Corps training was like this? Why did you think Peace Corps training was like this during your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language. Well, you know why they to stay in power for a while, training the perfect volunteers chase after us. I don't know how certain they were trained. I like to maybe do a quick like in the country where, yes, you're working. Perhaps you'll get trained that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I did training in country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought I'd try and make certain that many people are going to be trained in universities that are very familiar with the country. Like I've heard that throughout the program, these parents had to work in the Philippines, were trained in Hawaii, and they know that there are many Filipinos there. So we'll go be closer to the country. Yes. Well, in that case, we have to add to our training in the United States, which another month in Pakistan, in Peshawar, but in the language customs and visiting villages and so forth. And one of the things that I can always remember, one of the things that we were pointing out here is that you don't you don't shake hands with women. And I don't take a position that maybe where we were and we just took a step to that way, to the leaders of cognomen, I think, dataflow daughter. And so I said, man, yes. And when it came to time, I know I should begin by shaking hands. And so when I was married, they said they didn't know because we were told that you're you don't shake hands with women. Yes. But he was shaking hands with, you know, everybody. So I said quite, quite clearly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What when you when you went, how did you get to Pakistan? How did you get to Pakistan? How did you go to Pakistan from from Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.852941796387443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language. Well, you know why they to stay in power for a while, training the perfect volunteers chase after us. I don't know how certain they were trained. I like to maybe do a quick like in the country where, yes, you're working. Perhaps you'll get trained that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I did training in country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought I'd try and make certain that many people are going to be trained in universities that are very familiar with the country. Like I've heard that throughout the program, these parents had to work in the Philippines, were trained in Hawaii, and they know that there are many Filipinos there. So we'll go be closer to the country. Yes. Well, in that case, we have to add to our training in the United States, which another month in Pakistan, in Peshawar, but in the language customs and visiting villages and so forth. And one of the things that I can always remember, one of the things that we were pointing out here is that you don't you don't shake hands with women. And I don't take a position that maybe where we were and we just took a step to that way, to the leaders of cognomen, I think, dataflow daughter. And so I said, man, yes. And when it came to time, I know I should begin by shaking hands. And so when I was married, they said they didn't know because we were told that you're you don't shake hands with women. Yes. But he was shaking hands with, you know, everybody. So I said quite, quite clearly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What when you when you went, how did you get to Pakistan? How did you get to Pakistan? How did you go to Pakistan from from Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.836601995986047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I thought I'd try and make certain that many people are going to be trained in universities that are very familiar with the country. Like I've heard that throughout the program, these parents had to work in the Philippines, were trained in Hawaii, and they know that there are many Filipinos there. So we'll go be closer to the country. Yes. Well, in that case, we have to add to our training in the United States, which another month in Pakistan, in Peshawar, but in the language customs and visiting villages and so forth. And one of the things that I can always remember, one of the things that we were pointing out here is that you don't you don't shake hands with women. And I don't take a position that maybe where we were and we just took a step to that way, to the leaders of cognomen, I think, dataflow daughter. And so I said, man, yes. And when it came to time, I know I should begin by shaking hands. And so when I was married, they said they didn't know because we were told that you're you don't shake hands with women. Yes. But he was shaking hands with, you know, everybody. So I said quite, quite clearly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What when you when you went, how did you get to Pakistan? How did you get to Pakistan? How did you go to Pakistan from from Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Pakistan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.674817278995121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I that's right. We from from Puerto Rico to New York and back every time I wake up and I remember that also that they are not us. They made an announcement on their flag about Peace Corps volunteers or their flight going to Pakistan. Yes, that's America. And we had no you that a lot of us to look had, but that it was raining, you know, in Puerto Rico, we don't have a dry air. And they sang it and they you know, the things that we had. I'd like to have a note also. A couple got married and spent their honeymoon in Puerto Rico and escaping and they separated me, you know, and trading conditions and, uh, they got married. That's not something that we would like to have on your honeymoon. Was that normal for the only night and day in and day out? So, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm going back to one of the questions. What did you what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? What what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? Luggage?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.638685865550135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I that's right. We from from Puerto Rico to New York and back every time I wake up and I remember that also that they are not us. They made an announcement on their flag about Peace Corps volunteers or their flight going to Pakistan. Yes, that's America. And we had no you that a lot of us to look had, but that it was raining, you know, in Puerto Rico, we don't have a dry air. And they sang it and they you know, the things that we had. I'd like to have a note also. A couple got married and spent their honeymoon in Puerto Rico and escaping and they separated me, you know, and trading conditions and, uh, they got married. That's not something that we would like to have on your honeymoon. Was that normal for the only night and day in and day out? So, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm going back to one of the questions. What did you what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? What what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? Luggage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like what did you put in your suitcase?\n\nAnd I remember I remember I had one soap, shoes. Talk about the Reagan man, I think is 300 regular people like that, and I'm going to have to have"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Peace Corps give you anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.59853985061126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I that's right. We from from Puerto Rico to New York and back every time I wake up and I remember that also that they are not us. They made an announcement on their flag about Peace Corps volunteers or their flight going to Pakistan. Yes, that's America. And we had no you that a lot of us to look had, but that it was raining, you know, in Puerto Rico, we don't have a dry air. And they sang it and they you know, the things that we had. I'd like to have a note also. A couple got married and spent their honeymoon in Puerto Rico and escaping and they separated me, you know, and trading conditions and, uh, they got married. That's not something that we would like to have on your honeymoon. Was that normal for the only night and day in and day out? So, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'm going back to one of the questions. What did you what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? What what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? Luggage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like what did you put in your suitcase?\n\nAnd I remember I remember I had one soap, shoes. Talk about the Reagan man, I think is 300 regular people like that, and I'm going to have to have"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Peace Corps give you anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, really. But I'll post later on that plane in Paksitan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's see. What what did you think of Pakistan when you first arrived? Imagine you landed from the airplane, you went outside. What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.051494993979778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like what did you put in your suitcase?\n\nAnd I remember I remember I had one soap, shoes. Talk about the Reagan man, I think is 300 regular people like that, and I'm going to have to have"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Peace Corps give you anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, really. But I'll post later on that plane in Paksitan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's see. What what did you think of Pakistan when you first arrived? Imagine you landed from the airplane, you went outside. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that winning the public was my first impression, and then. Well, I think they need to be. We'll be you get time country that I guess we were there at the time when I read the WTC number, it was called No, we're not doing a great great anyway. And of course, because we are in the mountains close to the Khyber Pass. So and the House is, of course, very different than the one we saw there. Yeah, well, in a country state, medical personnel state that in the middle of my leg"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You built the"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.94610554886642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, really. But I'll post later on that plane in Paksitan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's see. What what did you think of Pakistan when you first arrived? Imagine you landed from the airplane, you went outside. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that winning the public was my first impression, and then. Well, I think they need to be. We'll be you get time country that I guess we were there at the time when I read the WTC number, it was called No, we're not doing a great great anyway. And of course, because we are in the mountains close to the Khyber Pass. So and the House is, of course, very different than the one we saw there. Yeah, well, in a country state, medical personnel state that in the middle of my leg"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You built the"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing as you know. OK, how about the people?\n\nYeah. How about the people that you saw?\n\nThe people get different caps that they have and you see them say any woman was Muslim. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did people think of Americans? What did people think of Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.829006165407133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that winning the public was my first impression, and then. Well, I think they need to be. We'll be you get time country that I guess we were there at the time when I read the WTC number, it was called No, we're not doing a great great anyway. And of course, because we are in the mountains close to the Khyber Pass. So and the House is, of course, very different than the one we saw there. Yeah, well, in a country state, medical personnel state that in the middle of my leg"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You built the"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing as you know. OK, how about the people?\n\nYeah. How about the people that you saw?\n\nThe people get different caps that they have and you see them say any woman was Muslim. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did people think of Americans? What did people think of Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. I think we were both like curiosity at that time. We were the first ones and not and that made him famous. I've seen no Americans, you know. But the people with whom we I see, and that is the one thing like that that any one might do, Dumarey the friendly. Who are basically the delegates, in my case, the people who have contests, curious, yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was what was your core group like? How many men and women? Education backgrounds."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.587784628230148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same thing as you know. OK, how about the people?\n\nYeah. How about the people that you saw?\n\nThe people get different caps that they have and you see them say any woman was Muslim. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did people think of Americans? What did people think of Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. I think we were both like curiosity at that time. We were the first ones and not and that made him famous. I've seen no Americans, you know. But the people with whom we I see, and that is the one thing like that that any one might do, Dumarey the friendly. Who are basically the delegates, in my case, the people who have contests, curious, yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was what was your core group like? How many men and women? Education backgrounds."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, let me just tell you that very I guess occurred to demeanor I grew up with we had six veterans, OK? Yeah, one was a nurse in Korea, one one million and got back to the two of us. Are you in the army? I mean, I tell you what, one is certainly Navy and Army. So now and so for us, the special case was a marine was a bricklayer. Well, we had. One librarian, the one who have the birds and we had a lab and nurses and teachers and there are three of us supposedly who are instructors in engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you went as an engineer instructor."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2086495869223866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. I think we were both like curiosity at that time. We were the first ones and not and that made him famous. I've seen no Americans, you know. But the people with whom we I see, and that is the one thing like that that any one might do, Dumarey the friendly. Who are basically the delegates, in my case, the people who have contests, curious, yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was what was your core group like? How many men and women? Education backgrounds."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, let me just tell you that very I guess occurred to demeanor I grew up with we had six veterans, OK? Yeah, one was a nurse in Korea, one one million and got back to the two of us. Are you in the army? I mean, I tell you what, one is certainly Navy and Army. So now and so for us, the special case was a marine was a bricklayer. Well, we had. One librarian, the one who have the birds and we had a lab and nurses and teachers and there are three of us supposedly who are instructors in engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you went as an engineer instructor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them later on went to a different societies in Europe or guy, but I think grow up and go on a tour bus was staying behind in the Lahor politics and in my case and actually there was no need for us at the beginning. So we spent a lot of time getting to talking to our colleagues. And then I had to find something to go. I learned how to the do we classify books using the do we this way testing. So I sit at the library and think they'll find me a class to the piece that were just twice a week. Mm hmm. And so I had to find something to fill my time and the dates were kind of wasting. I was able to get the district to approve the construction of a school for girls instead of one. And then there was another bill is later on. I was able to get their. I call for the suspected killer. So so I spent my time in the village and after and I'm not picture,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.898499541024874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, let me just tell you that very I guess occurred to demeanor I grew up with we had six veterans, OK? Yeah, one was a nurse in Korea, one one million and got back to the two of us. Are you in the army? I mean, I tell you what, one is certainly Navy and Army. So now and so for us, the special case was a marine was a bricklayer. Well, we had. One librarian, the one who have the birds and we had a lab and nurses and teachers and there are three of us supposedly who are instructors in engineering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you went as an engineer instructor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them later on went to a different societies in Europe or guy, but I think grow up and go on a tour bus was staying behind in the Lahor politics and in my case and actually there was no need for us at the beginning. So we spent a lot of time getting to talking to our colleagues. And then I had to find something to go. I learned how to the do we classify books using the do we this way testing. So I sit at the library and think they'll find me a class to the piece that were just twice a week. Mm hmm. And so I had to find something to fill my time and the dates were kind of wasting. I was able to get the district to approve the construction of a school for girls instead of one. And then there was another bill is later on. I was able to get their. I call for the suspected killer. So so I spent my time in the village and after and I'm not picture,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our mission is to go the continued once a week. We had a teacher come to our village, which is the biggest nations in order. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get funding for, how did you get funding for the school for girls?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.220555045583193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them later on went to a different societies in Europe or guy, but I think grow up and go on a tour bus was staying behind in the Lahor politics and in my case and actually there was no need for us at the beginning. So we spent a lot of time getting to talking to our colleagues. And then I had to find something to go. I learned how to the do we classify books using the do we this way testing. So I sit at the library and think they'll find me a class to the piece that were just twice a week. Mm hmm. And so I had to find something to fill my time and the dates were kind of wasting. I was able to get the district to approve the construction of a school for girls instead of one. And then there was another bill is later on. I was able to get their. I call for the suspected killer. So so I spent my time in the village and after and I'm not picture,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our mission is to go the continued once a week. We had a teacher come to our village, which is the biggest nations in order. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get funding for, how did you get funding for the school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, we were supposed to get money and I was told by says and certainly our colleagues had told her how many troops who are getting what aid annually and at the high school. And let me tell you something I don't know, you know, how much we were getting paid to be held in Washington? No. Eighty dollars a month. OK, yeah. Yeah. How much were you paid in the Peace Corps? Yeah. What was being held in Washington April"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the exchange rate collapsed it was two hundred and fifty dollars?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.797523312884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, we were supposed to get money and I was told by says and certainly our colleagues had told her how many troops who are getting what aid annually and at the high school. And let me tell you something I don't know, you know, how much we were getting paid to be held in Washington? No. Eighty dollars a month. OK, yeah. Yeah. How much were you paid in the Peace Corps? Yeah. What was being held in Washington April"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the exchange rate collapsed it was two hundred and fifty dollars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two hundred and fifty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two fifty."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so that's a big change from eighty dollars.\n\nBut the question was how how did they get money to build a school for girls? Who paid to build a school for girls?\n\nOh you mean. You mean they were being constructed. Yes. Who play always to be funded by the money from the about they and I go I provided I like the political vision, but anyway they got get it done and they had this, that, that's where the money comes from. A little bit like a Lake County."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you were the engineer for the project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.219470347648889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two hundred and fifty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two fifty."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so that's a big change from eighty dollars.\n\nBut the question was how how did they get money to build a school for girls? Who paid to build a school for girls?\n\nOh you mean. You mean they were being constructed. Yes. Who play always to be funded by the money from the about they and I go I provided I like the political vision, but anyway they got get it done and they had this, that, that's where the money comes from. A little bit like a Lake County."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you were the engineer for the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The money doesn't go to the police went directly to the district and the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you started this idea. You started the idea to build a school for girls?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5771892751654324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so that's a big change from eighty dollars.\n\nBut the question was how how did they get money to build a school for girls? Who paid to build a school for girls?\n\nOh you mean. You mean they were being constructed. Yes. Who play always to be funded by the money from the about they and I go I provided I like the political vision, but anyway they got get it done and they had this, that, that's where the money comes from. A little bit like a Lake County."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you were the engineer for the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The money doesn't go to the police went directly to the district and the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you started this idea. You started the idea to build a school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I wouldn't take the credit for thinking, but I certainly was a need there was a need for school for girls. So and at that time, the babies can get anything from the district to fund that. And our Peace Corps and the representative that then them take that. My role was like a bridge gate bridge between the Dalit and the and the district. And that's how we get the funds approved for appropriate for the school. But now but without or without my being there, they couldn't have done anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did people think about what did people think about a school for girls?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.974654750183814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The money doesn't go to the police went directly to the district and the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you started this idea. You started the idea to build a school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I wouldn't take the credit for thinking, but I certainly was a need there was a need for school for girls. So and at that time, the babies can get anything from the district to fund that. And our Peace Corps and the representative that then them take that. My role was like a bridge gate bridge between the Dalit and the and the district. And that's how we get the funds approved for appropriate for the school. But now but without or without my being there, they couldn't have done anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did people think about what did people think about a school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people think about a school for girls?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.416283055759793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. I wouldn't take the credit for thinking, but I certainly was a need there was a need for school for girls. So and at that time, the babies can get anything from the district to fund that. And our Peace Corps and the representative that then them take that. My role was like a bridge gate bridge between the Dalit and the and the district. And that's how we get the funds approved for appropriate for the school. But now but without or without my being there, they couldn't have done anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did people think about what did people think about a school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people think about a school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that's to say I think there are not as important my eyes as the boys, but in any time they realized that by having the ability to contribute to the well-being of the village. So these are they were interested in educating children. So we asked them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any difficulties?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.906981173066437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people think about a school for girls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that's to say I think there are not as important my eyes as the boys, but in any time they realized that by having the ability to contribute to the well-being of the village. So these are they were interested in educating children. So we asked them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any difficulties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That they"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have any difficulties on this project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.9135996345918915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that's to say I think there are not as important my eyes as the boys, but in any time they realized that by having the ability to contribute to the well-being of the village. So these are they were interested in educating children. So we asked them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any difficulties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That they"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have any difficulties on this project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let people take?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any difficulties with that? With the project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.79288848287988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That they"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have any difficulties on this project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let people take?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any difficulties with that? With the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the People Project project?\n\nWhat were the challenges? What were the obstacles were to build it, to do your project, to build the school?\n\nI had a time. I had to stabilize good grade. I mean, the rehabilitation with the district commissioner. And so fortunately, there was so much work I was working with who got in touch with the with the commissioner. So I had somebody working with me. What way to get that connection made, we were able to get the commission to approve construction of these two schools and days them out with a name like, of course, in this case, the very poorest, the labor. The only thing that the district had to pay for the materials once\n\nYou were the one who was working with you, I think that was a Pakistani was the guy who are working with you, talked about your work your way some\n\nWay. And they don't know. And yeah, I don't know. I met a lot of people that you were working with. Who is who was it? I forgot what I mean when you coming with me to Singapore and a Pakistani delegation.\n\nWhere are you? Where is he from? Lahore. From the village. Was he from Lahore or from the village? You know,\n\nFrom the village where I was from. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How how did Peace Corps staff facilitate your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.769876092088754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let people take?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any difficulties with that? With the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the People Project project?\n\nWhat were the challenges? What were the obstacles were to build it, to do your project, to build the school?\n\nI had a time. I had to stabilize good grade. I mean, the rehabilitation with the district commissioner. And so fortunately, there was so much work I was working with who got in touch with the with the commissioner. So I had somebody working with me. What way to get that connection made, we were able to get the commission to approve construction of these two schools and days them out with a name like, of course, in this case, the very poorest, the labor. The only thing that the district had to pay for the materials once\n\nYou were the one who was working with you, I think that was a Pakistani was the guy who are working with you, talked about your work your way some\n\nWay. And they don't know. And yeah, I don't know. I met a lot of people that you were working with. Who is who was it? I forgot what I mean when you coming with me to Singapore and a Pakistani delegation.\n\nWhere are you? Where is he from? Lahore. From the village. Was he from Lahore or from the village? You know,\n\nFrom the village where I was from. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How how did Peace Corps staff facilitate your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a big secret that when I got there, the way I had. I think we had the wonderland of mostly one Pakistani who was working, and you always thought maturely, and then we have a Pakistani driver driver, but we did our way. We had to be. It's not like it's not like a man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're crazy, the SUV. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.633195657876394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the People Project project?\n\nWhat were the challenges? What were the obstacles were to build it, to do your project, to build the school?\n\nI had a time. I had to stabilize good grade. I mean, the rehabilitation with the district commissioner. And so fortunately, there was so much work I was working with who got in touch with the with the commissioner. So I had somebody working with me. What way to get that connection made, we were able to get the commission to approve construction of these two schools and days them out with a name like, of course, in this case, the very poorest, the labor. The only thing that the district had to pay for the materials once\n\nYou were the one who was working with you, I think that was a Pakistani was the guy who are working with you, talked about your work your way some\n\nWay. And they don't know. And yeah, I don't know. I met a lot of people that you were working with. Who is who was it? I forgot what I mean when you coming with me to Singapore and a Pakistani delegation.\n\nWhere are you? Where is he from? Lahore. From the village. Was he from Lahore or from the village? You know,\n\nFrom the village where I was from. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How how did Peace Corps staff facilitate your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a big secret that when I got there, the way I had. I think we had the wonderland of mostly one Pakistani who was working, and you always thought maturely, and then we have a Pakistani driver driver, but we did our way. We had to be. It's not like it's not like a man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're crazy, the SUV. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I feel that like like like a Van Halen. He hey, I'm driving. Really, really. I'm driving for Bull. I get this call, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to go to class"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.59243961986266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a big secret that when I got there, the way I had. I think we had the wonderland of mostly one Pakistani who was working, and you always thought maturely, and then we have a Pakistani driver driver, but we did our way. We had to be. It's not like it's not like a man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're crazy, the SUV. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I feel that like like like a Van Halen. He hey, I'm driving. Really, really. I'm driving for Bull. I get this call, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to go to class"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To work in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, it's. Were you assigned to a specific, I guess, living arrangement,"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.658266244291843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I feel that like like like a Van Halen. He hey, I'm driving. Really, really. I'm driving for Bull. I get this call, OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And to go to class"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To work in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, it's. Were you assigned to a specific, I guess, living arrangement,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Specific"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Living space, like a house, or where did you stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.842518049213158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To work in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, um, it's. Were you assigned to a specific, I guess, living arrangement,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Specific"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Living space, like a house, or where did you stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.936131165792398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Specific"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Living space, like a house, or where did you stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Peace Corps? Oh, yeah. We were assigned a specific thing. Would you call it that bungalow? In our case, it was a building inside the a college campus, animal husbandry. And and that's when went to the people there. Yeah, but that tree for four rooms and there was a bath and we had a one kitchen and. It's great to remember. He like making poor dining room is a break wall, brick building is called very low headquarters in order to go to work that way up here to go ahead and listen to the Cracklin. Yeah, I think we got to stop people like this. Yeah. You had this little so going and flat growth going somewhere. So I had to get to know Florida and that would be duo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, what's"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.92903462865822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Peace Corps? Oh, yeah. We were assigned a specific thing. Would you call it that bungalow? In our case, it was a building inside the a college campus, animal husbandry. And and that's when went to the people there. Yeah, but that tree for four rooms and there was a bath and we had a one kitchen and. It's great to remember. He like making poor dining room is a break wall, brick building is called very low headquarters in order to go to work that way up here to go ahead and listen to the Cracklin. Yeah, I think we got to stop people like this. Yeah. You had this little so going and flat growth going somewhere. So I had to get to know Florida and that would be duo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, what's"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one thing that was very interesting. I was kind of thinking about the living conditions. Everybody in Pakistan has certain what you call servants assigned to them. Yes. This was the kind of animal husbandry, but still they'd have that kind of thing coming, that there was a sweeper and there was a laundry. There will be Wollar. But we they've been able to do his own laundry and that there was a on there was the cook. Joseph Yes. Yeah. It was very, very good guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your typical work and leisure day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.032260698509134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Peace Corps? Oh, yeah. We were assigned a specific thing. Would you call it that bungalow? In our case, it was a building inside the a college campus, animal husbandry. And and that's when went to the people there. Yeah, but that tree for four rooms and there was a bath and we had a one kitchen and. It's great to remember. He like making poor dining room is a break wall, brick building is called very low headquarters in order to go to work that way up here to go ahead and listen to the Cracklin. Yeah, I think we got to stop people like this. Yeah. You had this little so going and flat growth going somewhere. So I had to get to know Florida and that would be duo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, what's"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one thing that was very interesting. I was kind of thinking about the living conditions. Everybody in Pakistan has certain what you call servants assigned to them. Yes. This was the kind of animal husbandry, but still they'd have that kind of thing coming, that there was a sweeper and there was a laundry. There will be Wollar. But we they've been able to do his own laundry and that there was a on there was the cook. Joseph Yes. Yeah. It was very, very good guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your typical work and leisure day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I say,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your typical work and leisure day like a normal day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.133416596034476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one thing that was very interesting. I was kind of thinking about the living conditions. Everybody in Pakistan has certain what you call servants assigned to them. Yes. This was the kind of animal husbandry, but still they'd have that kind of thing coming, that there was a sweeper and there was a laundry. There will be Wollar. But we they've been able to do his own laundry and that there was a on there was the cook. Joseph Yes. Yeah. It was very, very good guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your typical work and leisure day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I say,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your typical work and leisure day like a normal day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very typical work. Yeah. I mean, my I say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wake up in the morning, you wake up in the morning and"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.842724401787335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or how am I wrong to think. Well OK. Yeah, I have later on one of the volunteers like we had the first time he was able to expose the, you know, the African-American boys with boy. I'm sure that I don't want to feel that way too, that they're not way that girls in my case have been exposed to African-Americans when I was in the service.\n\nAnd they were all stationed someplace else, they were they were scattered all over Pakistan, so they had different kinds of experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you said you bike to work on your bicycle, to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On an antique, and you might be it, because one way they like what the terror of straight people is, that I was wrapping up my Sunday headed guy and at the time that I was hit actually a minute and I got caught. And I just think I'm naming your first date. I can almost hear people. And again, in the Gary days, I got hit there and my my best friend was quick. Yeah. So the good thing about going one time I was riding a stick to walk to work and I could really keep track of those gabbling. What was that again. Sorry about. Of which could mean I get a good time with that.\n\nWas that with the tonga or with the oxcart?\n\nUnless there was a cut cut cut know was going, I would have to but you know, I was going to get that a great you know.\n\nRight that right there I was there, you know. Yeah. So I had visualizes is different types of vehicles on the street. And you had this horse drawn carriages which were one thing, those controls, the tongas were the horse drawn carriage. And then they had this big bullock carts that were carry the heavy loads and they were just lumber along and you could not stop them. They take the whole width of the street sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many horses, how many were they motorized or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so they were they were they were pulled by oxen. They were scary. Yeah, they were really scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ride your bike to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.380804890874815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On an antique, and you might be it, because one way they like what the terror of straight people is, that I was wrapping up my Sunday headed guy and at the time that I was hit actually a minute and I got caught. And I just think I'm naming your first date. I can almost hear people. And again, in the Gary days, I got hit there and my my best friend was quick. Yeah. So the good thing about going one time I was riding a stick to walk to work and I could really keep track of those gabbling. What was that again. Sorry about. Of which could mean I get a good time with that.\n\nWas that with the tonga or with the oxcart?\n\nUnless there was a cut cut cut know was going, I would have to but you know, I was going to get that a great you know.\n\nRight that right there I was there, you know. Yeah. So I had visualizes is different types of vehicles on the street. And you had this horse drawn carriages which were one thing, those controls, the tongas were the horse drawn carriage. And then they had this big bullock carts that were carry the heavy loads and they were just lumber along and you could not stop them. They take the whole width of the street sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many horses, how many were they motorized or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so they were they were they were pulled by oxen. They were scary. Yeah, they were really scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ride your bike to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I was there when I'm driving to work there. That I mean, right. Riding to work"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then lunch or what happened at work and what happened at work. What did you do at work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.756449878749795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, so they were they were they were pulled by oxen. They were scary. Yeah, they were really scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ride your bike to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I was there when I'm driving to work there. That I mean, right. Riding to work"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then lunch or what happened at work and what happened at work. What did you do at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put what I consider to be Pape's class. And between my drink day with and talk with the guys in English or anything like that. And I'm drunk that completely. And and they pay bills always with me. I can still there. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Yes. But they always make good when I was making Essentialness and they always with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you eat for lunch?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.840499865277549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I was there when I'm driving to work there. That I mean, right. Riding to work"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then lunch or what happened at work and what happened at work. What did you do at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put what I consider to be Pape's class. And between my drink day with and talk with the guys in English or anything like that. And I'm drunk that completely. And and they pay bills always with me. I can still there. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Yes. But they always make good when I was making Essentialness and they always with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you eat for lunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, and I think I think we go back to the Howard government. I know you also had some last minute make, of course, certain data about the third place. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So was Pepita and. I'd like to tell you another story, but there are, of course, I mean, if I put an. They're back for the celebration of life coping, go to sleep thinking about me, you know, and they thought that we were having a meltdown and the sadness and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the guilt"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.044999850308388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put what I consider to be Pape's class. And between my drink day with and talk with the guys in English or anything like that. And I'm drunk that completely. And and they pay bills always with me. I can still there. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Yes. But they always make good when I was making Essentialness and they always with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you eat for lunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, and I think I think we go back to the Howard government. I know you also had some last minute make, of course, certain data about the third place. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So was Pepita and. I'd like to tell you another story, but there are, of course, I mean, if I put an. They're back for the celebration of life coping, go to sleep thinking about me, you know, and they thought that we were having a meltdown and the sadness and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the guilt"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say was sad that God's got me. Yeah. Oh, OK. And and it was it was a lab tech lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he said it was going that way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.272222055898208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, and I think I think we go back to the Howard government. I know you also had some last minute make, of course, certain data about the third place. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So was Pepita and. I'd like to tell you another story, but there are, of course, I mean, if I put an. They're back for the celebration of life coping, go to sleep thinking about me, you know, and they thought that we were having a meltdown and the sadness and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the guilt"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say was sad that God's got me. Yeah. Oh, OK. And and it was it was a lab tech lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he said it was going that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, yeah, they called it because they know you. Yes. But I did this with his Big Mac and then there was this woman. That's would be lamb and then in this case, protect to be goat. Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people lived with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.635802284331342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You say was sad that God's got me. Yeah. Oh, OK. And and it was it was a lab tech lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he said it was going that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, yeah, they called it because they know you. Yes. But I did this with his Big Mac and then there was this woman. That's would be lamb and then in this case, protect to be goat. Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people lived with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five at one time. And then one went to another city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is the place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.70644698259038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, yeah, they called it because they know you. Yes. But I did this with his Big Mac and then there was this woman. That's would be lamb and then in this case, protect to be goat. Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people lived with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five at one time. And then one went to another city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is the place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's in those days it was called Lyallpur, but it was an English name. So they changed it to Faisalabad. That's what it's called today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what was your afternoon like, what was your afternoon like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.83164318208671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were five at one time. And then one went to another city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is the place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's in those days it was called Lyallpur, but it was an English name. So they changed it to Faisalabad. That's what it's called today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what was your afternoon like, what was your afternoon like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work across the country, I'm comfortable. I can assure. I don't know, a typical afternoon. But go shopping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you buy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 18.136536066803345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's in those days it was called Lyallpur, but it was an English name. So they changed it to Faisalabad. That's what it's called today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what was your afternoon like, what was your afternoon like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work across the country, I'm comfortable. I can assure. I don't know, a typical afternoon. But go shopping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you buy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there will still be a very famous, that famous shopping place, we will go there. And actually it was famous. I'm not going. And there's there's this art and there is a legend about the elaborate world of a princess. Was that appalled by reality or the it that and he was in peace in the war and having this.\n\nI think you have it backwards. Sorry. I know Anarkali was the princess.\n\nSaying he was he was so close to the time that it won't work then Tom and you won't see anywhere near that got very crowded and you can find out and almost with him close spaces and what have you that you haven't been able to get out of that car when the baby is and got a clothing line, you know, just playing.\n\nEverything had a price, barter for everything.\n\nAnd certainly the girls there. And that is where they put their show, where it comes and tells me that they were responsible and they didn't have to cut the they say, to make sure we can use that so we can really make them choose to make the time. So, yeah, that Masabumi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you guys meet in country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:210", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.278179317463241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is asking about your vacations, your travel vacations. I know what they were, the mountains.\n\nOh, yeah. Yeah. I guess we had we had vacation. Well, first speculation, I can remember the were going to the mountains, yeah, they name the one, they called me up and they are gone and I'm telling them my little. And it is to see what kind of work there is, one place where I think we when we went to places that did this, what we call the Switzerland of Pakistan, which is a valley, by the way, I should say, up in the mountains. And at the time, there's only one one one way that group. And so in order to contain that, they would make that one place so they can change direction. And how many places do you have any particular places where they were going to change? Because they said it's only one week the there was not registering one week go on one side, which, as far as. They had beautiful mountain scenery in Pakistan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your work or life change in the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year, no. It was the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at your service, looking back at your service,"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.652073231436099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year, no. It was the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at your service, looking back at your service,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was I invited?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, um, what were you main accomplishments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.753186874397942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at your service, looking back at your service,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was I invited?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, um, what were you main accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I celebrate my contribution to the yeah. Is there something physical? I think this year, like I said, social, my greatest contribution is changing the mentality, I mean, the attitude of what they think about women and the African American. To me, that was my biggest contribution. Nothing physical, OK. I don't think I made any physical change, OK. It's just the nurses, you know, help people who are sick. I take issue with people and in so far as actual changes in the way they labor. Oh yeah. There is probably a slight. I mean, I think probably the biggest one day kind of thing, yeah, something more subtle.\n\nYeah, I just have a especially especially"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any regrets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.817081046178846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was I invited?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, um, what were you main accomplishments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I celebrate my contribution to the yeah. Is there something physical? I think this year, like I said, social, my greatest contribution is changing the mentality, I mean, the attitude of what they think about women and the African American. To me, that was my biggest contribution. Nothing physical, OK. I don't think I made any physical change, OK. It's just the nurses, you know, help people who are sick. I take issue with people and in so far as actual changes in the way they labor. Oh yeah. There is probably a slight. I mean, I think probably the biggest one day kind of thing, yeah, something more subtle.\n\nYeah, I just have a especially especially"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any regrets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had know we had to measure the success or failure. I only wish that I had and I would have had more teaching. I send me an. I don't really I think the fact that I was when I was in. Able to finish this call because I was not there long and I don't know if that happened, pair the girls.\n\nYes, but it was finished.\n\nIt wasn't around that simply because it was I didn't I didn't have the time, the day to finish it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you mean develop it or which school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.821094947243466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that be is worth. And I know. I know. But I'm very concerned, man B and C, I don't know very much about that A, B and C, so I B is the more important for them understanding of the Americans by the Pakistanis. Yes. Like I said, to have greater exposure to American Western women is just by Hollywood. Yeah. Hollywood is not the real thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about C? How did you do C? To promote better understanding of people"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had thought when we come back, Carol and I go to the closest thing, but like then with that, we had a few times the Peace Corps here. And my dear, I'm sorry, during the like, March, March, April. Bigger picture. Yes. Yeah, I am a nipper style. And I would talk to the students about Pakistan in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's one small way. Yeah. Great. But you then you also have long friendships with Pakistanis based on your, your knowledge of the culture and the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still have contact with people in Pakistan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.655672774374649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had thought when we come back, Carol and I go to the closest thing, but like then with that, we had a few times the Peace Corps here. And my dear, I'm sorry, during the like, March, March, April. Bigger picture. Yes. Yeah, I am a nipper style. And I would talk to the students about Pakistan in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's one small way. Yeah. Great. But you then you also have long friendships with Pakistanis based on your, your knowledge of the culture and the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still have contact with people in Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But that got them watching a huge earthquake in 2005. And, you know, I don't mean this guy an end to them by Pakistan and Darro establishing an organization to help the people. And he says the friends of Pakistan, you say. That's how we are,\n\nWe’re still active for sure.\n\nWhere are you from? Houston?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston. Ok, this is the brochure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.61741419374961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's one small way. Yeah. Great. But you then you also have long friendships with Pakistanis based on your, your knowledge of the culture and the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still have contact with people in Pakistan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But that got them watching a huge earthquake in 2005. And, you know, I don't mean this guy an end to them by Pakistan and Darro establishing an organization to help the people. And he says the friends of Pakistan, you say. That's how we are,\n\nWe’re still active for sure.\n\nWhere are you from? Houston?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston. Ok, this is the brochure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's the Benny’s roommate up there in the top.\n\nAnd they were saying, yeah, this is our first trip over there the day die. And this is just a guy I work with, a guy wearing. He is he and I were invited, this guy over there. OK, so Nick engineering here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll take a picture of this one over."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.873350856481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. But that got them watching a huge earthquake in 2005. And, you know, I don't mean this guy an end to them by Pakistan and Darro establishing an organization to help the people. And he says the friends of Pakistan, you say. That's how we are,\n\nWe’re still active for sure.\n\nWhere are you from? Houston?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Houston. Ok, this is the brochure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's the Benny’s roommate up there in the top.\n\nAnd they were saying, yeah, this is our first trip over there the day die. And this is just a guy I work with, a guy wearing. He is he and I were invited, this guy over there. OK, so Nick engineering here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll take a picture of this one over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this question should be easy. How what has been the effect of your Peace Corps service on your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.6561000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's the Benny’s roommate up there in the top.\n\nAnd they were saying, yeah, this is our first trip over there the day die. And this is just a guy I work with, a guy wearing. He is he and I were invited, this guy over there. OK, so Nick engineering here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll take a picture of this one over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, this question should be easy. How what has been the effect of your Peace Corps service on your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What has been the effect of your Peace Corps service on your life?\n\nYou know what, second to my marriage, I think as the Peace Corps is probably one of the most influential in I don't know, it's hard to sit in between. I believe, you know, the my peaceful could be a little more like family to me. And I'm and that's why, you know, all these core competencies. Mm hmm. This is my big confidence thing. Well, yeah. And take your girl and I don't know, you ask a lot of people, they haven't done that many. So that's how I always felt for a good people when Dre. And it is when you have something in common. Yes. OK, so that's how this could affect my life, you know, and where I go, where they are Peace Corps. I talk to them and I tell them we were in Mongolia, then we could be school volunteers and an area in Madagascar. Yeah, yeah, Madagascar. That is great. But I got worried that people might be. Yeah. So many of them who work with us and depending on who's girl in Madagascar. And then when we were I was in Nepal because they, they were there would picture all the time, but I thought of it like and there were many people in Peace Corps volunteers. I mean I service in that group who were working in the Habitat for Humanity, working in Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nepal opened up not long ago."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:264", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I think there when they open my area, that I can. Learn the language, and that's very important. They can learn the languages and they're ready for anything. Say that compared to other people here that you have, I think this is the job that you're the hardest working the labor movement and that\n\nThe hardest job you'll ever love. They still say that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, they do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say that. Yes. And they were there for the temporary sacrifice. And so far of finances, you don't make money. But for me, this core experience, it is very enriching. So what you don't get financially is the people who make have happen, say spiritually, well, spiritually. Let's play a game of game so they can give and take I. I think people who have taken that. But that I do agree with me, that is it is a life changing experience. I don't know how you play like that. I agree. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like my friends in the Peace Corps. What do you think you regret? It is better than. No, I had, I don't think, a very great. And that's good. How many were you in your group?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had seventy nine in my group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, how was this big boy, nine year old one time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, I can tell you I'll tell you about this after the recording, but do you have anything else to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00102:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Say that. Yes. And they were there for the temporary sacrifice. And so far of finances, you don't make money. But for me, this core experience, it is very enriching. So what you don't get financially is the people who make have happen, say spiritually, well, spiritually. Let's play a game of game so they can give and take I. I think people who have taken that. But that I do agree with me, that is it is a life changing experience. I don't know how you play like that. I agree. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like my friends in the Peace Corps. What do you think you regret? It is better than. No, I had, I don't think, a very great. And that's good. How many were you in your group?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had seventy nine in my group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, how was this big boy, nine year old one time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, I can tell you I'll tell you about this after the recording, but do you have anything else to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anything else you want to say because the recording’s on, anything else to add here?\n\nNo. And I did find that I am very happy and I am very pleased to see younger people like you do to the same thing that the old guys like me had done before, you know. And encourage the younger people to serve in the Peace Corps. Oh yeah I only have one regret that that neither one of my my daughters followed in my footsteps.\n\nWe’re still working on the grandkids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, thank you for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.89453319091595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was assigned to what was called the Electrical Branch, which had both electrical engineers and electricians in the same group under Jim [James A.] White as Branch Chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your biographical data sheet indicates, and you’ve also indicated today, that you did some work with wind tunnels. Can you talk to us about designing wind tunnel drives and their auxiliary systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the first important job I had was on the twelve-foot wind tunnel auxiliary system. I was assigned the electrical engineering job. The twelve-foot wind tunnel was pressurized. You could run it from a vacuum up to seventy-five pounds per square inch pressure, and they had about five thousand horsepower worth of air compressors to evacuate or pressurize the tunnel, together with equipment to take water out of the air and so on. I was assigned the electrical work on that job. Now, I guess it’s fair to say the systems engineering had been done by the contractor, but no installation plans had really been made, and I had to make all the electrical installation plans for that. I’m not sure when that started, probably about a year after I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that involve, making the installation plans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to make drawings of where all the underground duct lines went from the motor-starting equipment to the machinery, to these three large motors and about ten small motors, oil-circulating pumps, and things like that. You had to make up a control sequence drawing, so you press the button and certain auxiliaries start, and then you check to see, with pressure switches and things like that, that things have come up to pressure and that it’s okay to start the big machines. And then a sequencing so that you didn’t start all the thousand-horsepower and larger machines, didn’t start them all at the same time, but sequenced them on. That’s about it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play any role in the construction then of the wind tunnels?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.549481323239945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the first important job I had was on the twelve-foot wind tunnel auxiliary system. I was assigned the electrical engineering job. The twelve-foot wind tunnel was pressurized. You could run it from a vacuum up to seventy-five pounds per square inch pressure, and they had about five thousand horsepower worth of air compressors to evacuate or pressurize the tunnel, together with equipment to take water out of the air and so on. I was assigned the electrical work on that job. Now, I guess it’s fair to say the systems engineering had been done by the contractor, but no installation plans had really been made, and I had to make all the electrical installation plans for that. I’m not sure when that started, probably about a year after I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that involve, making the installation plans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to make drawings of where all the underground duct lines went from the motor-starting equipment to the machinery, to these three large motors and about ten small motors, oil-circulating pumps, and things like that. You had to make up a control sequence drawing, so you press the button and certain auxiliaries start, and then you check to see, with pressure switches and things like that, that things have come up to pressure and that it’s okay to start the big machines. And then a sequencing so that you didn’t start all the thousand-horsepower and larger machines, didn’t start them all at the same time, but sequenced them on. That’s about it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play any role in the construction then of the wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.388312581377715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to make drawings of where all the underground duct lines went from the motor-starting equipment to the machinery, to these three large motors and about ten small motors, oil-circulating pumps, and things like that. You had to make up a control sequence drawing, so you press the button and certain auxiliaries start, and then you check to see, with pressure switches and things like that, that things have come up to pressure and that it’s okay to start the big machines. And then a sequencing so that you didn’t start all the thousand-horsepower and larger machines, didn’t start them all at the same time, but sequenced them on. That’s about it, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you play any role in the construction then of the wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess you could call it construction supervision. I was learning more from the people who were installing it than I was teaching them, I think it would be fair to say. And I must say, they were all contractors—they were not NACA personnel—and they were very helpful.\\n\\n In fact, one of the things—this is getting away from your question, but one of the things I found out was that I learned an awful lot from people like head wind tunnel mechanics and chief electricians and people like that, the nonprofessionals. I really learned a lot from them. Part of the technical—I think more than that—well, how to get the nonprofessional people to do the work that you wanted them to do and not act like you knew it all. Ask them how to do it, or ask them how they would do it. Don’t tell them how to do it, because they were skilled tradespeople, and they knew more than a punk engineer knew. Generally, throughout my career with NACA, I think that always happened. In a sense, they helped you grow up I think is the best way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the wind tunnels were finished, was there ever any sort of dedication ceremony?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.209236201530793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess you could call it construction supervision. I was learning more from the people who were installing it than I was teaching them, I think it would be fair to say. And I must say, they were all contractors—they were not NACA personnel—and they were very helpful.\\n\\n In fact, one of the things—this is getting away from your question, but one of the things I found out was that I learned an awful lot from people like head wind tunnel mechanics and chief electricians and people like that, the nonprofessionals. I really learned a lot from them. Part of the technical—I think more than that—well, how to get the nonprofessional people to do the work that you wanted them to do and not act like you knew it all. Ask them how to do it, or ask them how they would do it. Don’t tell them how to do it, because they were skilled tradespeople, and they knew more than a punk engineer knew. Generally, throughout my career with NACA, I think that always happened. In a sense, they helped you grow up I think is the best way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the wind tunnels were finished, was there ever any sort of dedication ceremony?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to have these—what were they?—triennial inspections. In a sense, the place shut down for about three weeks, and they invited in several hundred people, academics, local chamber of commerce, for these big tours around the Center, which were very formal. There would be a explanation at each wind tunnel or flight line, what research was going on and what had been accomplished. They were big public relations deals. I remember that the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel was dedicated on one of those. But that occurred only once every three years, and that’s the only dedication that I can recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had another question about the impact of the war. I had read in one of the Ames books that some of the men were inducted into the Navy."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.232484668367547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess you could call it construction supervision. I was learning more from the people who were installing it than I was teaching them, I think it would be fair to say. And I must say, they were all contractors—they were not NACA personnel—and they were very helpful.\\n\\n In fact, one of the things—this is getting away from your question, but one of the things I found out was that I learned an awful lot from people like head wind tunnel mechanics and chief electricians and people like that, the nonprofessionals. I really learned a lot from them. Part of the technical—I think more than that—well, how to get the nonprofessional people to do the work that you wanted them to do and not act like you knew it all. Ask them how to do it, or ask them how they would do it. Don’t tell them how to do it, because they were skilled tradespeople, and they knew more than a punk engineer knew. Generally, throughout my career with NACA, I think that always happened. In a sense, they helped you grow up I think is the best way to put it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once the wind tunnels were finished, was there ever any sort of dedication ceremony?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to have these—what were they?—triennial inspections. In a sense, the place shut down for about three weeks, and they invited in several hundred people, academics, local chamber of commerce, for these big tours around the Center, which were very formal. There would be a explanation at each wind tunnel or flight line, what research was going on and what had been accomplished. They were big public relations deals. I remember that the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel was dedicated on one of those. But that occurred only once every three years, and that’s the only dedication that I can recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had another question about the impact of the war. I had read in one of the Ames books that some of the men were inducted into the Navy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you one of those men?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 22.480538520408384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They used to have these—what were they?—triennial inspections. In a sense, the place shut down for about three weeks, and they invited in several hundred people, academics, local chamber of commerce, for these big tours around the Center, which were very formal. There would be a explanation at each wind tunnel or flight line, what research was going on and what had been accomplished. They were big public relations deals. I remember that the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel was dedicated on one of those. But that occurred only once every three years, and that’s the only dedication that I can recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had another question about the impact of the war. I had read in one of the Ames books that some of the men were inducted into the Navy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you one of those men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about what was going on at the Center and how people reacted to that news?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.877364000012777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a little house in East Palo Alto."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you living at Moffett Field, though, for the rest of that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there barracks there for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. You know, there are barracks for four thousand people or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a cafeteria there on-site for everyone?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.863737777791975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there barracks there for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. You know, there are barracks for four thousand people or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a cafeteria there on-site for everyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was the Navy Mess. Yes, there was a cafeteria primarily for civilians. There was the Navy Mess for enlisted personnel, and the Bachelor Officers’ Quarters had some kind of feeding facilities. I don’t really know what they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of most of the people who were working for NACA when they became members of the Navy? What was your reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.959708641991083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, yes. You know, there are barracks for four thousand people or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a cafeteria there on-site for everyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was the Navy Mess. Yes, there was a cafeteria primarily for civilians. There was the Navy Mess for enlisted personnel, and the Bachelor Officers’ Quarters had some kind of feeding facilities. I don’t really know what they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of most of the people who were working for NACA when they became members of the Navy? What was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose, obviously, you wish that it hadn’t happened. At the same time, there were an awful lot of your friends who were out getting shot at, and so you couldn’t feel too bad about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay in the Navy?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.066342935545649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was the Navy Mess. Yes, there was a cafeteria primarily for civilians. There was the Navy Mess for enlisted personnel, and the Bachelor Officers’ Quarters had some kind of feeding facilities. I don’t really know what they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of most of the people who were working for NACA when they became members of the Navy? What was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose, obviously, you wish that it hadn’t happened. At the same time, there were an awful lot of your friends who were out getting shot at, and so you couldn’t feel too bad about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay in the Navy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed until ’46?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.851492150606277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I suppose, obviously, you wish that it hadn’t happened. At the same time, there were an awful lot of your friends who were out getting shot at, and so you couldn’t feel too bad about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you stay in the Navy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed until ’46?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was sometime in the spring of ’46. I know it was just under two years because I guess in the Korean War there was talk about calling up people who hadn’t served two years, and I wondered if it was going to hit me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Sure. I can imagine. Let me ask you some more questions about your work with the wind tunnels. Your biographical sheet indicated that you worked on operation of some of the wind tunnels. What did that involve?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.723880167340308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed until ’46?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was sometime in the spring of ’46. I know it was just under two years because I guess in the Korean War there was talk about calling up people who hadn’t served two years, and I wondered if it was going to hit me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Sure. I can imagine. Let me ask you some more questions about your work with the wind tunnels. Your biographical sheet indicated that you worked on operation of some of the wind tunnels. What did that involve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depends what you mean by operation, I guess. I wouldn’t have called it quite operation, in that I would say that those people who were conducting the tests were the wind tunnel operators. I never did that. I, at times, operated—well, you’re certainly on-call for electrical problems on all wind tunnels, and as you achieve some rank in the organization, you were expected to walk in and find the trouble on any wind tunnel which wouldn’t start or any of the auxiliary equipment that wouldn’t start.\\n\\n I guess the main thing that I think of myself as doing was there was a lot of installation of things like model support systems. They put the model on a couple of prods, two or three prods sticking up, and then they want to change the attitude of the model or things like that, and automatic systems to do that, and I did a lot of work on design and installation and troubleshooting on those systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you building models then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.693200185933675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was sometime in the spring of ’46. I know it was just under two years because I guess in the Korean War there was talk about calling up people who hadn’t served two years, and I wondered if it was going to hit me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Sure. I can imagine. Let me ask you some more questions about your work with the wind tunnels. Your biographical sheet indicated that you worked on operation of some of the wind tunnels. What did that involve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depends what you mean by operation, I guess. I wouldn’t have called it quite operation, in that I would say that those people who were conducting the tests were the wind tunnel operators. I never did that. I, at times, operated—well, you’re certainly on-call for electrical problems on all wind tunnels, and as you achieve some rank in the organization, you were expected to walk in and find the trouble on any wind tunnel which wouldn’t start or any of the auxiliary equipment that wouldn’t start.\\n\\n I guess the main thing that I think of myself as doing was there was a lot of installation of things like model support systems. They put the model on a couple of prods, two or three prods sticking up, and then they want to change the attitude of the model or things like that, and automatic systems to do that, and I did a lot of work on design and installation and troubleshooting on those systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you building models then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I’m speaking of the kind of things that hold the models in the wind tunnel. As you probably know, the model is sitting there on some sort of support system, and that in turn is connected to a force-measuring system of some sort so you can see what forces the wind imposes on the airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you encountered while working on this type of position or job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.770222428815194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it depends what you mean by operation, I guess. I wouldn’t have called it quite operation, in that I would say that those people who were conducting the tests were the wind tunnel operators. I never did that. I, at times, operated—well, you’re certainly on-call for electrical problems on all wind tunnels, and as you achieve some rank in the organization, you were expected to walk in and find the trouble on any wind tunnel which wouldn’t start or any of the auxiliary equipment that wouldn’t start.\\n\\n I guess the main thing that I think of myself as doing was there was a lot of installation of things like model support systems. They put the model on a couple of prods, two or three prods sticking up, and then they want to change the attitude of the model or things like that, and automatic systems to do that, and I did a lot of work on design and installation and troubleshooting on those systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you building models then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I’m speaking of the kind of things that hold the models in the wind tunnel. As you probably know, the model is sitting there on some sort of support system, and that in turn is connected to a force-measuring system of some sort so you can see what forces the wind imposes on the airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you encountered while working on this type of position or job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that there weren’t many precedents for the design of such things, and that they were unique systems, and so you had to figure out how to make it work. You had to figure out a design that would make it work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us an example of some of the groundbreaking techniques that you might have come up with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.96691380979466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I’m speaking of the kind of things that hold the models in the wind tunnel. As you probably know, the model is sitting there on some sort of support system, and that in turn is connected to a force-measuring system of some sort so you can see what forces the wind imposes on the airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you encountered while working on this type of position or job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that there weren’t many precedents for the design of such things, and that they were unique systems, and so you had to figure out how to make it work. You had to figure out a design that would make it work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us an example of some of the groundbreaking techniques that you might have come up with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess in the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel model support system—on all those systems—there is some sort of shroud surrounding the struts that hold the model in the tunnel, and let me explain that further. You want to get the wind forces on the model, not on the struts, which are also out in the wind, so you put a shroud around the struts so those forces are not detected by the force-measuring system. So then when you move the thing, when you move the model, you’ve got to move both the strut and the shroud but keep the shroud away, not touching the strut, because then the forces that would be on the shroud would be transmitted to the strut and to the force-measuring system. So you need a system where one thing tracks another, so you’ve got one motor moving it, moving the strut, and one motor moving the shroud, and you’ve got to keep them tracking each other. Those turned out to be rather difficult control problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people typically worked with you on these systems?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.296570899771844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that there weren’t many precedents for the design of such things, and that they were unique systems, and so you had to figure out how to make it work. You had to figure out a design that would make it work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us an example of some of the groundbreaking techniques that you might have come up with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess in the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel model support system—on all those systems—there is some sort of shroud surrounding the struts that hold the model in the tunnel, and let me explain that further. You want to get the wind forces on the model, not on the struts, which are also out in the wind, so you put a shroud around the struts so those forces are not detected by the force-measuring system. So then when you move the thing, when you move the model, you’ve got to move both the strut and the shroud but keep the shroud away, not touching the strut, because then the forces that would be on the shroud would be transmitted to the strut and to the force-measuring system. So you need a system where one thing tracks another, so you’ve got one motor moving it, moving the strut, and one motor moving the shroud, and you’ve got to keep them tracking each other. Those turned out to be rather difficult control problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people typically worked with you on these systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were, of course, mechanical engineers. I was doing the electrical engineering work. There were, on the building of a system like that, of course, there’s a lot of people in the shop before they ever showed up to be installed, showed up in the wind tunnel to be installed. I never worked in the shop or were contracted out. And then the crew of wind tunnel mechanics had probably six people or so putting it together, and a couple of mechanical engineers and one electrical engineer, I guess, putting together a system like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your office located at the time that you were working on these?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.551745444190937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess in the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel model support system—on all those systems—there is some sort of shroud surrounding the struts that hold the model in the tunnel, and let me explain that further. You want to get the wind forces on the model, not on the struts, which are also out in the wind, so you put a shroud around the struts so those forces are not detected by the force-measuring system. So then when you move the thing, when you move the model, you’ve got to move both the strut and the shroud but keep the shroud away, not touching the strut, because then the forces that would be on the shroud would be transmitted to the strut and to the force-measuring system. So you need a system where one thing tracks another, so you’ve got one motor moving it, moving the strut, and one motor moving the shroud, and you’ve got to keep them tracking each other. Those turned out to be rather difficult control problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people typically worked with you on these systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were, of course, mechanical engineers. I was doing the electrical engineering work. There were, on the building of a system like that, of course, there’s a lot of people in the shop before they ever showed up to be installed, showed up in the wind tunnel to be installed. I never worked in the shop or were contracted out. And then the crew of wind tunnel mechanics had probably six people or so putting it together, and a couple of mechanical engineers and one electrical engineer, I guess, putting together a system like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your office located at the time that you were working on these?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in what was called the Utilities Building. It’s across the street from the fourteen-foot wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time did you spend in the wind tunnels while you were working on these systems?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.835272715767708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were, of course, mechanical engineers. I was doing the electrical engineering work. There were, on the building of a system like that, of course, there’s a lot of people in the shop before they ever showed up to be installed, showed up in the wind tunnel to be installed. I never worked in the shop or were contracted out. And then the crew of wind tunnel mechanics had probably six people or so putting it together, and a couple of mechanical engineers and one electrical engineer, I guess, putting together a system like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your office located at the time that you were working on these?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in what was called the Utilities Building. It’s across the street from the fourteen-foot wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time did you spend in the wind tunnels while you were working on these systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe 25 percent of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your average workday like? Can you give us a sense of when you might arrive, what you might do during the day, and when you might leave?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.928080795297452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in what was called the Utilities Building. It’s across the street from the fourteen-foot wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much time did you spend in the wind tunnels while you were working on these systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe 25 percent of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your average workday like? Can you give us a sense of when you might arrive, what you might do during the day, and when you might leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, arriving—well, particularly when I was a civilian, arriving and leaving had to be pretty much on a schedule because of gas rationing during the war. You had to form ride groups, and that meant everybody got there about eight o’clock and everybody left about four-thirty. Now, obviously, if you had some hot job going on, you might have to stay beyond four-thirty. I hitchhiked home a lot of times.\\n\\n Repeat the question, please. I got on a side track there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. No, but that’s great information for us to have, actually. Can you give us a sense of your workday as you’re working out at Ames, what you might do during the course of the day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.920089772552725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, maybe 25 percent of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your average workday like? Can you give us a sense of when you might arrive, what you might do during the day, and when you might leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, arriving—well, particularly when I was a civilian, arriving and leaving had to be pretty much on a schedule because of gas rationing during the war. You had to form ride groups, and that meant everybody got there about eight o’clock and everybody left about four-thirty. Now, obviously, if you had some hot job going on, you might have to stay beyond four-thirty. I hitchhiked home a lot of times.\\n\\n Repeat the question, please. I got on a side track there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. No, but that’s great information for us to have, actually. Can you give us a sense of your workday as you’re working out at Ames, what you might do during the course of the day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t really know what to say there. Most of the time the work was in the office, and probably you ended up taking at least one trouble call a day which got you out of the office for what could turn out to be two or three days, but more likely fifteen minutes to an hour and a half. Most of the work was in the office, and I really find it difficult to characterize it other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of tools or equipment did you use to do your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.279667386911636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. The six-by-six-foot wind tunnel was started late in the war, and I worked on that. There came a period in the late forties where I felt that things were just kind of drifting along. The jobs weren’t very interesting. I think you ought to be careful about my saying that, because I was not on the research side of the house. The people on the research side of the house may have felt, “We’ve finally got the equipment we need, and we’re able to do the work we always really wanted to do.”\\n\\n Well, I had been in the business of providing new equipment for people, and when the war was over, they said, “Well, we don’t need anything new for a while,” and so things slowed down to, “Well, can we make this a little better? Can we make that a little better?” And there were no big construction projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work at all on deactivating any wind tunnels or making changes to certain wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deactivating, did you say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did you help out with deactivating or closing down any wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t know of any that were—well at least under NACA, I don’t know any that were deactivated at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about making any changes to any wind tunnels?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.977408207679596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deactivating, did you say?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Did you help out with deactivating or closing down any wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t know of any that were—well at least under NACA, I don’t know any that were deactivated at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about making any changes to any wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about some of the changes that you helped [with]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.752675786310662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t know of any that were—well at least under NACA, I don’t know any that were deactivated at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about making any changes to any wind tunnels?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about some of the changes that you helped [with]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were a lot of variable-frequency motor generator sets put in. The wind tunnel models used to have in them motors to drive the propellers in the model, and they had to be very small. They were water-cooled, because you want to get a lot of horsepower output in a small volume. And then you got speed control of the propellers by feeding them with electrical power that was adjustable frequency, from zero to 150 cycles in some cases, zero to 400 cycles in other cases. There was installation of that equipment in a number of wind tunnels that I worked on, forty-by-eighty and the six-by-six wind tunnel. I think that’s all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of the use of jet engines on your position at NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.614084207011846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a lot of changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about some of the changes that you helped [with]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were a lot of variable-frequency motor generator sets put in. The wind tunnel models used to have in them motors to drive the propellers in the model, and they had to be very small. They were water-cooled, because you want to get a lot of horsepower output in a small volume. And then you got speed control of the propellers by feeding them with electrical power that was adjustable frequency, from zero to 150 cycles in some cases, zero to 400 cycles in other cases. There was installation of that equipment in a number of wind tunnels that I worked on, forty-by-eighty and the six-by-six wind tunnel. I think that’s all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of the use of jet engines on your position at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, little or none, I’d say, I guess, in the sense that when I was first there they kept buying more and more of these motors to put into models, and they quit buying those, although they were used to drive air compressors in models to simulate the jet in a model. But little effect on the things I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the use of supersonic aircraft? Did that have any sort of influence on your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.571204674457606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were a lot of variable-frequency motor generator sets put in. The wind tunnel models used to have in them motors to drive the propellers in the model, and they had to be very small. They were water-cooled, because you want to get a lot of horsepower output in a small volume. And then you got speed control of the propellers by feeding them with electrical power that was adjustable frequency, from zero to 150 cycles in some cases, zero to 400 cycles in other cases. There was installation of that equipment in a number of wind tunnels that I worked on, forty-by-eighty and the six-by-six wind tunnel. I think that’s all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of the use of jet engines on your position at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, little or none, I’d say, I guess, in the sense that when I was first there they kept buying more and more of these motors to put into models, and they quit buying those, although they were used to drive air compressors in models to simulate the jet in a model. But little effect on the things I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the use of supersonic aircraft? Did that have any sort of influence on your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, only in the sense that I was working on new kinds of wind tunnels, supersonic wind tunnels. In general, in the older wind tunnels the speed of the drive motors went through a continuous range, from zero to top speed, while in the supersonic wind tunnels, they were driven by compressors within the speed being set by an adjustable throat in the wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were working for NACA, did you frequently give presentations or write papers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.634671860508451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, little or none, I’d say, I guess, in the sense that when I was first there they kept buying more and more of these motors to put into models, and they quit buying those, although they were used to drive air compressors in models to simulate the jet in a model. But little effect on the things I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the use of supersonic aircraft? Did that have any sort of influence on your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, only in the sense that I was working on new kinds of wind tunnels, supersonic wind tunnels. In general, in the older wind tunnels the speed of the drive motors went through a continuous range, from zero to top speed, while in the supersonic wind tunnels, they were driven by compressors within the speed being set by an adjustable throat in the wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were working for NACA, did you frequently give presentations or write papers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under NACA, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common for electrical engineers working for NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.816302067231613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, only in the sense that I was working on new kinds of wind tunnels, supersonic wind tunnels. In general, in the older wind tunnels the speed of the drive motors went through a continuous range, from zero to top speed, while in the supersonic wind tunnels, they were driven by compressors within the speed being set by an adjustable throat in the wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were working for NACA, did you frequently give presentations or write papers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under NACA, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common for electrical engineers working for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any sort of professional organizations while you were working out at the Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.907002296924013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under NACA, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common for electrical engineers working for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any sort of professional organizations while you were working out at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the NACA, I had joined what’s now IEEE [Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers] in college, and that organization has a nice advantage of when you reach a combination of age and length of membership reaches, I don’t know, eighty or something like that, you’re home free. No more dues. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s excellent. Were you encouraged by your Branch Chief or anyone else at NACA to join professional organizations and to go to conferences?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.118891441026681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any sort of professional organizations while you were working out at the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the NACA, I had joined what’s now IEEE [Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers] in college, and that organization has a nice advantage of when you reach a combination of age and length of membership reaches, I don’t know, eighty or something like that, you’re home free. No more dues. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s excellent. Were you encouraged by your Branch Chief or anyone else at NACA to join professional organizations and to go to conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no strong pressure. I think encouraged is okay; that is an okay, word, but there was no strong pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if NACA paid your dues, or did you have to pay your dues?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.46543493447409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the NACA, I had joined what’s now IEEE [Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers] in college, and that organization has a nice advantage of when you reach a combination of age and length of membership reaches, I don’t know, eighty or something like that, you’re home free. No more dues. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s excellent. Were you encouraged by your Branch Chief or anyone else at NACA to join professional organizations and to go to conferences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no strong pressure. I think encouraged is okay; that is an okay, word, but there was no strong pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if NACA paid your dues, or did you have to pay your dues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I recall they did not. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that Ames has had on the surrounding area of San Jose and some of the universities in the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.739372149415654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no strong pressure. I think encouraged is okay; that is an okay, word, but there was no strong pressure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if NACA paid your dues, or did you have to pay your dues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I recall they did not. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that Ames has had on the surrounding area of San Jose and some of the universities in the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly one of the criteria in choosing Moffett Field was the fact that Stanford and UC [University of California] Berkeley [Berkeley, California] were in the vicinity. I don’t have a good answer for your question. I don’t think I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get around the Laboratory once you were on-site? Did you ride a bicycle to get around the site, or did you walk?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.932635721572948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I recall they did not. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that Ames has had on the surrounding area of San Jose and some of the universities in the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly one of the criteria in choosing Moffett Field was the fact that Stanford and UC [University of California] Berkeley [Berkeley, California] were in the vicinity. I don’t have a good answer for your question. I don’t think I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get around the Laboratory once you were on-site? Did you ride a bicycle to get around the site, or did you walk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes, the Electrical Branch had about six bicycles, which were kept under lock and key so nobody else would take them. Then somebody figured out this elaborate scheme where, when the bicycle got old—they wouldn’t give you a new bicycle, but when the bicycle got old, you could ask that it be condemned, and then you could get a new bicycle. But then somehow or other you fixed up the condemned bicycle, so you got one more that way. Yes, mainly by bicycle. When I was first there, the Electrical Branch had no transportation except bicycles.\\n\\n Sometime during the war—it was before I got there—they had a barrage balloon. You know what a barrage balloon is? Well, during the war they set up these free balloons with cables dangling from them so an airplane couldn’t fly low. That is to keep out enemy fighters, primarily, or any kind of enemy plane. One of them broke loose—I think it was from Mare Island—and it ended up on the Ames Substation, where it shorted out the buses, I guess. It was before I was there. I guess the engineer in charge said, “Well, look, you guys weren’t really equipped to handle a big emergency like that. I’m going to get you a truck.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when you got that pickup truck? Was that before you came or after?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.258484135081053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, certainly one of the criteria in choosing Moffett Field was the fact that Stanford and UC [University of California] Berkeley [Berkeley, California] were in the vicinity. I don’t have a good answer for your question. I don’t think I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get around the Laboratory once you were on-site? Did you ride a bicycle to get around the site, or did you walk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes, the Electrical Branch had about six bicycles, which were kept under lock and key so nobody else would take them. Then somebody figured out this elaborate scheme where, when the bicycle got old—they wouldn’t give you a new bicycle, but when the bicycle got old, you could ask that it be condemned, and then you could get a new bicycle. But then somehow or other you fixed up the condemned bicycle, so you got one more that way. Yes, mainly by bicycle. When I was first there, the Electrical Branch had no transportation except bicycles.\\n\\n Sometime during the war—it was before I got there—they had a barrage balloon. You know what a barrage balloon is? Well, during the war they set up these free balloons with cables dangling from them so an airplane couldn’t fly low. That is to keep out enemy fighters, primarily, or any kind of enemy plane. One of them broke loose—I think it was from Mare Island—and it ended up on the Ames Substation, where it shorted out the buses, I guess. It was before I was there. I guess the engineer in charge said, “Well, look, you guys weren’t really equipped to handle a big emergency like that. I’m going to get you a truck.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when you got that pickup truck? Was that before you came or after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afterwards. Took about a year to get the truck, I would guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any organizations that were active at Ames?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.398315705645615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes, the Electrical Branch had about six bicycles, which were kept under lock and key so nobody else would take them. Then somebody figured out this elaborate scheme where, when the bicycle got old—they wouldn’t give you a new bicycle, but when the bicycle got old, you could ask that it be condemned, and then you could get a new bicycle. But then somehow or other you fixed up the condemned bicycle, so you got one more that way. Yes, mainly by bicycle. When I was first there, the Electrical Branch had no transportation except bicycles.\\n\\n Sometime during the war—it was before I got there—they had a barrage balloon. You know what a barrage balloon is? Well, during the war they set up these free balloons with cables dangling from them so an airplane couldn’t fly low. That is to keep out enemy fighters, primarily, or any kind of enemy plane. One of them broke loose—I think it was from Mare Island—and it ended up on the Ames Substation, where it shorted out the buses, I guess. It was before I was there. I guess the engineer in charge said, “Well, look, you guys weren’t really equipped to handle a big emergency like that. I’m going to get you a truck.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when you got that pickup truck? Was that before you came or after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afterwards. Took about a year to get the truck, I would guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any organizations that were active at Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I guess so, in the sense that in the first ten years or so, fifteen, maybe, the Electrical Branch had a softball team, and everybody under the age of thirty played on the softball team. Everybody had to, because that was the only way you could field a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the other branches then have their own softball teams as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.664795228495127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Afterwards. Took about a year to get the truck, I would guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any organizations that were active at Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I guess so, in the sense that in the first ten years or so, fifteen, maybe, the Electrical Branch had a softball team, and everybody under the age of thirty played on the softball team. Everybody had to, because that was the only way you could field a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the other branches then have their own softball teams as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how well the Electrical Branch did in competitions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.071994698327918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I guess so, in the sense that in the first ten years or so, fifteen, maybe, the Electrical Branch had a softball team, and everybody under the age of thirty played on the softball team. Everybody had to, because that was the only way you could field a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did the other branches then have their own softball teams as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how well the Electrical Branch did in competitions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any sort of dances or social activities that were sponsored by Ames that you attended?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.191105220364353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how well the Electrical Branch did in competitions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any sort of dances or social activities that were sponsored by Ames that you attended?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very many. Now, what I’m going to tell you is hearsay, but it’s probably so. At Langley [Aeronautical Laboratory, Hampton, Virginia], you know, they were kind of isolated there. There was no large cities in the vicinity, and so that there were a lot of dances and amateur theatricals. In fact, I believe they even had a symphony orchestra there. So when the hierarchy of Ames came out from Langley, they attempted to start things like that here, and my impression was that people here were used to going to San Francisco [California] for the theater and the symphony and things like that, and that they didn’t need that bush-league, amateur theatricals and things like that. There were some dances, but it is my impression that the management tried to foster things like that, and they really fell kind of flat because people out here didn’t feel they needed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of Langley, did you ever do any work with individuals who worked at Langley while you were working on projects at Ames?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.434561355960392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any sort of dances or social activities that were sponsored by Ames that you attended?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very many. Now, what I’m going to tell you is hearsay, but it’s probably so. At Langley [Aeronautical Laboratory, Hampton, Virginia], you know, they were kind of isolated there. There was no large cities in the vicinity, and so that there were a lot of dances and amateur theatricals. In fact, I believe they even had a symphony orchestra there. So when the hierarchy of Ames came out from Langley, they attempted to start things like that here, and my impression was that people here were used to going to San Francisco [California] for the theater and the symphony and things like that, and that they didn’t need that bush-league, amateur theatricals and things like that. There were some dances, but it is my impression that the management tried to foster things like that, and they really fell kind of flat because people out here didn’t feel they needed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of Langley, did you ever do any work with individuals who worked at Langley while you were working on projects at Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not under NACA, no, I did not. Under NASA, yes, but not under NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever do any work with any of the universities near Ames?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.816179284400436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very many. Now, what I’m going to tell you is hearsay, but it’s probably so. At Langley [Aeronautical Laboratory, Hampton, Virginia], you know, they were kind of isolated there. There was no large cities in the vicinity, and so that there were a lot of dances and amateur theatricals. In fact, I believe they even had a symphony orchestra there. So when the hierarchy of Ames came out from Langley, they attempted to start things like that here, and my impression was that people here were used to going to San Francisco [California] for the theater and the symphony and things like that, and that they didn’t need that bush-league, amateur theatricals and things like that. There were some dances, but it is my impression that the management tried to foster things like that, and they really fell kind of flat because people out here didn’t feel they needed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of Langley, did you ever do any work with individuals who worked at Langley while you were working on projects at Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not under NACA, no, I did not. Under NASA, yes, but not under NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever do any work with any of the universities near Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I took some courses at Stanford, but nothing work-related. I mean, the courses were, of course, work-related, but only taking courses there, and I can’t even remember—that’s one of those places where I can’t draw the NACA/NASA line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that the Korean War had on NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.351310316000484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not under NACA, no, I did not. Under NASA, yes, but not under NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever do any work with any of the universities near Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I took some courses at Stanford, but nothing work-related. I mean, the courses were, of course, work-related, but only taking courses there, and I can’t even remember—that’s one of those places where I can’t draw the NACA/NASA line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that the Korean War had on NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t see any impact. Now, other people may have and that’s quite possible. The only impact I saw was the threat of recalling to service or drafting of some of the people who were working for me at the time. NACA was always successfully able to defend those people against the draft and against recall, but that’s the only thing I remember about the Korean War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By that time, what position were you at NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.501455906667204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I took some courses at Stanford, but nothing work-related. I mean, the courses were, of course, work-related, but only taking courses there, and I can’t even remember—that’s one of those places where I can’t draw the NACA/NASA line."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact do you think that the Korean War had on NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t see any impact. Now, other people may have and that’s quite possible. The only impact I saw was the threat of recalling to service or drafting of some of the people who were working for me at the time. NACA was always successfully able to defend those people against the draft and against recall, but that’s the only thing I remember about the Korean War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By that time, what position were you at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was what’s called Section Head of the Electrical Engineering Section. Sometime, I can’t remember when, maybe 1950 or something like that, the Electrical Branch was split into two sections, and there was a branch organization which was just the Branch Chief and, I guess, two assistants, and then there were Engineer Section and an Electrician Section, and I was head of the Engineer Section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall why that branch was split into two?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.779395451852448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t see any impact. Now, other people may have and that’s quite possible. The only impact I saw was the threat of recalling to service or drafting of some of the people who were working for me at the time. NACA was always successfully able to defend those people against the draft and against recall, but that’s the only thing I remember about the Korean War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By that time, what position were you at NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was what’s called Section Head of the Electrical Engineering Section. Sometime, I can’t remember when, maybe 1950 or something like that, the Electrical Branch was split into two sections, and there was a branch organization which was just the Branch Chief and, I guess, two assistants, and then there were Engineer Section and an Electrician Section, and I was head of the Engineer Section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall why that branch was split into two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It’s not that I don’t recall. I don’t think I ever really [knew]. I suspect that it was some sort of political move that they could give more prestige to the organization and get better pay for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could talk about the transition from NACA to NASA that occurred in ’58."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.754883835391608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was what’s called Section Head of the Electrical Engineering Section. Sometime, I can’t remember when, maybe 1950 or something like that, the Electrical Branch was split into two sections, and there was a branch organization which was just the Branch Chief and, I guess, two assistants, and then there were Engineer Section and an Electrician Section, and I was head of the Engineer Section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall why that branch was split into two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It’s not that I don’t recall. I don’t think I ever really [knew]. I suspect that it was some sort of political move that they could give more prestige to the organization and get better pay for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could talk about the transition from NACA to NASA that occurred in ’58."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any great transition in ’58 except, I guess, Jim [James E.] Webb was coming out, and they had to get the sign. They had to be sure they had the NACA signs off of all the buildings and got NASA signs up. And, in fact, the front of the Administration Building had, cast in concrete, “Ames Aeronautical Laboratory” on it, and they had to get a jackhammer and dig that out and put “Ames Research Center” [Moffett Field] out there. That was done in a hurry because everybody thought, “Well, we’ll do that in good time,” but James Webb was coming out, and they wanted it done before he got there.\\n\\n I don’t recall any big instant transformation. Activities began to expand. There were more people. I got the opportunity to move into flight simulation, which was a great opportunity for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any members of Ames who were not happy with the move from NACA to NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.727648705990676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It’s not that I don’t recall. I don’t think I ever really [knew]. I suspect that it was some sort of political move that they could give more prestige to the organization and get better pay for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could talk about the transition from NACA to NASA that occurred in ’58."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any great transition in ’58 except, I guess, Jim [James E.] Webb was coming out, and they had to get the sign. They had to be sure they had the NACA signs off of all the buildings and got NASA signs up. And, in fact, the front of the Administration Building had, cast in concrete, “Ames Aeronautical Laboratory” on it, and they had to get a jackhammer and dig that out and put “Ames Research Center” [Moffett Field] out there. That was done in a hurry because everybody thought, “Well, we’ll do that in good time,” but James Webb was coming out, and they wanted it done before he got there.\\n\\n I don’t recall any big instant transformation. Activities began to expand. There were more people. I got the opportunity to move into flight simulation, which was a great opportunity for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any members of Ames who were not happy with the move from NACA to NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember Smith J. DeFrance, who was Engineer in Charge under NACA and the Center Director under NASA, I remember him saying, “Well, I could have done the same thing and not changed the name; changed the act. We could have done all this under the old legislation.” I’m sure he lost a lot of independence, and, well, I’m also sure that he’d worked there long enough so he was reluctant to make any changes. As long as he was the boss, why would you want to change anything? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think that the work environment changed, if at all, when you started working for NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.808498562211861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any great transition in ’58 except, I guess, Jim [James E.] Webb was coming out, and they had to get the sign. They had to be sure they had the NACA signs off of all the buildings and got NASA signs up. And, in fact, the front of the Administration Building had, cast in concrete, “Ames Aeronautical Laboratory” on it, and they had to get a jackhammer and dig that out and put “Ames Research Center” [Moffett Field] out there. That was done in a hurry because everybody thought, “Well, we’ll do that in good time,” but James Webb was coming out, and they wanted it done before he got there.\\n\\n I don’t recall any big instant transformation. Activities began to expand. There were more people. I got the opportunity to move into flight simulation, which was a great opportunity for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any members of Ames who were not happy with the move from NACA to NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember Smith J. DeFrance, who was Engineer in Charge under NACA and the Center Director under NASA, I remember him saying, “Well, I could have done the same thing and not changed the name; changed the act. We could have done all this under the old legislation.” I’m sure he lost a lot of independence, and, well, I’m also sure that he’d worked there long enough so he was reluctant to make any changes. As long as he was the boss, why would you want to change anything? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think that the work environment changed, if at all, when you started working for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, to me and to a number of other people, there were just a lot more opportunities. There was a lot of different kinds of work going on, so that if you had experience and a record of working hard and doing well, that new opportunities were presented to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your work with NACA, what do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.898331735790956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember Smith J. DeFrance, who was Engineer in Charge under NACA and the Center Director under NASA, I remember him saying, “Well, I could have done the same thing and not changed the name; changed the act. We could have done all this under the old legislation.” I’m sure he lost a lot of independence, and, well, I’m also sure that he’d worked there long enough so he was reluctant to make any changes. As long as he was the boss, why would you want to change anything? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think that the work environment changed, if at all, when you started working for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, to me and to a number of other people, there were just a lot more opportunities. There was a lot of different kinds of work going on, so that if you had experience and a record of working hard and doing well, that new opportunities were presented to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your work with NACA, what do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I can’t think of any really significant accomplishments there. One thing I think I did after White left and his successor left, the new boss was physically not very well, and I felt like that I kept the electrical end of the operation out there going. Obviously not all by myself, but I felt I was providing as much direction as anybody else to all the electrical work going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge while working for NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.109257484212174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, to me and to a number of other people, there were just a lot more opportunities. There was a lot of different kinds of work going on, so that if you had experience and a record of working hard and doing well, that new opportunities were presented to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your work with NACA, what do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I can’t think of any really significant accomplishments there. One thing I think I did after White left and his successor left, the new boss was physically not very well, and I felt like that I kept the electrical end of the operation out there going. Obviously not all by myself, but I felt I was providing as much direction as anybody else to all the electrical work going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge while working for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my biggest challenge was doing what I just told you without making it obvious to my boss. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the impact of your work with NACA on aviation research?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.454730538013527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I can’t think of any really significant accomplishments there. One thing I think I did after White left and his successor left, the new boss was physically not very well, and I felt like that I kept the electrical end of the operation out there going. Obviously not all by myself, but I felt I was providing as much direction as anybody else to all the electrical work going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge while working for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my biggest challenge was doing what I just told you without making it obvious to my boss. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the impact of your work with NACA on aviation research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never done any aviation research, so I only enabled others to do aviation research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to tell us a little bit about your work with NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.838589486681697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my biggest challenge was doing what I just told you without making it obvious to my boss. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been the impact of your work with NACA on aviation research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never done any aviation research, so I only enabled others to do aviation research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to tell us a little bit about your work with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess it was 1960. They’d been doing some flight simulation work at Ames, and they were about to put in a small centrifuge. In general, work on simulation machinery was expanding, and they wanted me to set up a separate group to handle that. I was asked to be the Branch Chief of that group, so this was a great change in formal responsibility to me and opportunity to do things more the way I wanted to do them. It expanded to more than that. You asked about writing papers. I began to write papers, which I had never done under NACA. I began to meet with people from other NASA Centers. I began to go to international meetings. So there was a great personal change to me.\\n\\n Were these changes because of the change from NACA to NASA, or were they just the way technology was expanding? That’s a hard line to draw, I guess, but I never saw anybody in the kind of work I had been doing in electrical machinery, I never saw anybody at Ames do things like that under NACA, and I could do that under NASA. Maybe that was time rather than change in organization; but I think it was change in organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you did work in simulations. What aspect of simulations, specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.376210540757441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve never done any aviation research, so I only enabled others to do aviation research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to tell us a little bit about your work with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess it was 1960. They’d been doing some flight simulation work at Ames, and they were about to put in a small centrifuge. In general, work on simulation machinery was expanding, and they wanted me to set up a separate group to handle that. I was asked to be the Branch Chief of that group, so this was a great change in formal responsibility to me and opportunity to do things more the way I wanted to do them. It expanded to more than that. You asked about writing papers. I began to write papers, which I had never done under NACA. I began to meet with people from other NASA Centers. I began to go to international meetings. So there was a great personal change to me.\\n\\n Were these changes because of the change from NACA to NASA, or were they just the way technology was expanding? That’s a hard line to draw, I guess, but I never saw anybody in the kind of work I had been doing in electrical machinery, I never saw anybody at Ames do things like that under NACA, and I could do that under NASA. Maybe that was time rather than change in organization; but I think it was change in organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you did work in simulations. What aspect of simulations, specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the thing that Ames was primarily good at was motion cues in flight simulation; that is, putting the forces on a pilot, giving him the physical feel of the airplane as opposed to just looking at an instrument panel. We had a lot of machinery to do that, eventually developed a lot of machinery to do that. Then they had really before that had done nothing but an instrument panel, a pilot and an instrument panel and control devices. So the expansion there was to get these motion systems in, get out-the-window visual systems and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with any aircraft companies or the military on these simulators?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.513840173774618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the thing that Ames was primarily good at was motion cues in flight simulation; that is, putting the forces on a pilot, giving him the physical feel of the airplane as opposed to just looking at an instrument panel. We had a lot of machinery to do that, eventually developed a lot of machinery to do that. Then they had really before that had done nothing but an instrument panel, a pilot and an instrument panel and control devices. So the expansion there was to get these motion systems in, get out-the-window visual systems and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with any aircraft companies or the military on these simulators?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics] set up—there was a working group on flight simulation, which included military and NASA and airframe manufacturers, generally. We used to meet twice a year, I guess, and we’d go jumping around the country and look at each other’s facilities, and people would get up and explain what they’re doing. It was a very free interchange of ideas. It was a good group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did simulations change over time, from 1960 until you left Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, when I first got there about all they had was a pilot and a joy stick and an instrument panel. By the time I left, they had big motion-producing devices, out-the-window visual systems, and things like this, so much more realistic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.23760019308291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics] set up—there was a working group on flight simulation, which included military and NASA and airframe manufacturers, generally. We used to meet twice a year, I guess, and we’d go jumping around the country and look at each other’s facilities, and people would get up and explain what they’re doing. It was a very free interchange of ideas. It was a good group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did simulations change over time, from 1960 until you left Ames?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, when I first got there about all they had was a pilot and a joy stick and an instrument panel. By the time I left, they had big motion-producing devices, out-the-window visual systems, and things like this, so much more realistic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I played an important role in putting together the Simulation Lab. The people who had headed it up before thought of this as a sideline to the mathematical work they were doing, which was perfectly okay; it just grew to the point where you had to put more concentration on it, and the people who headed it up before weren’t interested in doing that kind of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge while working for NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.152889103425455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, as I said, when I first got there about all they had was a pilot and a joy stick and an instrument panel. By the time I left, they had big motion-producing devices, out-the-window visual systems, and things like this, so much more realistic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career with NASA, what do you think was your most significant accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I played an important role in putting together the Simulation Lab. The people who had headed it up before thought of this as a sideline to the mathematical work they were doing, which was perfectly okay; it just grew to the point where you had to put more concentration on it, and the people who headed it up before weren’t interested in doing that kind of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge while working for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was putting together that simulation stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you finally leave NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 20.169876781583838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I played an important role in putting together the Simulation Lab. The people who had headed it up before thought of this as a sideline to the mathematical work they were doing, which was perfectly okay; it just grew to the point where you had to put more concentration on it, and the people who headed it up before weren’t interested in doing that kind of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your biggest challenge while working for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was putting together that simulation stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you finally leave NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "’81."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And why did you decide to leave NASA at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.507966440457001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I’ve done some work in the first five or six years after I retired. I did some work on contract for Ames, mainly writing instruction books on various things for the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, I’m going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a couple. One of them focuses on budgets. Can you share with us how you put together your budget, especially during those first years in NACA, and then how maybe the budget process changed for NASA? And then again, I know NASA had some lean years as well. But just kind of talk to us about how money impacted the work that you did, if it did at all. Did budget increases or decreases affect your projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember the last simulator we built. I can’t give you a good general answer. I remember the last simulator we built. We were told, “You’re never going to get the amount of money you need for that. Why don’t you make this compromise now, and we’ll come back later and bring it up to the specifications that you really want.” That’s the only thing that I can really remember where we didn’t get the amount of money we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier about when Jim White took over and gave everyone the instruments that they needed—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.231073822730001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a couple. One of them focuses on budgets. Can you share with us how you put together your budget, especially during those first years in NACA, and then how maybe the budget process changed for NASA? And then again, I know NASA had some lean years as well. But just kind of talk to us about how money impacted the work that you did, if it did at all. Did budget increases or decreases affect your projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember the last simulator we built. I can’t give you a good general answer. I remember the last simulator we built. We were told, “You’re never going to get the amount of money you need for that. Why don’t you make this compromise now, and we’ll come back later and bring it up to the specifications that you really want.” That’s the only thing that I can really remember where we didn’t get the amount of money we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier about when Jim White took over and gave everyone the instruments that they needed—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when he was taken over from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got the instruments. You had said that NACA for a while was living through a depression mentality, that you weren’t exactly getting what you needed to do your job. But you saw that change where you got more instruments. When you were in charge of that branch, were you able to get your employees what they needed to do their job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.034526469700001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember the last simulator we built. I can’t give you a good general answer. I remember the last simulator we built. We were told, “You’re never going to get the amount of money you need for that. Why don’t you make this compromise now, and we’ll come back later and bring it up to the specifications that you really want.” That’s the only thing that I can really remember where we didn’t get the amount of money we needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier about when Jim White took over and gave everyone the instruments that they needed—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when he was taken over from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got the instruments. You had said that NACA for a while was living through a depression mentality, that you weren’t exactly getting what you needed to do your job. But you saw that change where you got more instruments. When you were in charge of that branch, were you able to get your employees what they needed to do their job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your workforce at the biggest?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.927251633000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when he was taken over from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got the instruments. You had said that NACA for a while was living through a depression mentality, that you weren’t exactly getting what you needed to do your job. But you saw that change where you got more instruments. When you were in charge of that branch, were you able to get your employees what they needed to do their job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your workforce at the biggest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About ten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were scattered all over the Research Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.80805737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was your workforce at the biggest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About ten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were scattered all over the Research Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were all in one group, although we worked all over the Center. You just said something that—I can’t remember what it was. You just said something that put a spark in my head, but—oh, I know. It seemed to me that I guess in the latter days of NASA, that engineers, the electrical engineers—it was probably true in the other branches—that they should have been hiring more clerical help and fewer engineers, that the engineers were doing things that were primarily clerical tasks that could have been passed on to other people, and some of them would have been happier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably. Before we started our interview today, you and I were talking about Mr. White and how we’re not going to be able to interview him. Is there anything you’d like to add, before we finish our interview today with you, about working for him? Any memories or anything that you have of him that you’d like to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.675619300000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About ten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were scattered all over the Research Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were all in one group, although we worked all over the Center. You just said something that—I can’t remember what it was. You just said something that put a spark in my head, but—oh, I know. It seemed to me that I guess in the latter days of NASA, that engineers, the electrical engineers—it was probably true in the other branches—that they should have been hiring more clerical help and fewer engineers, that the engineers were doing things that were primarily clerical tasks that could have been passed on to other people, and some of them would have been happier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably. Before we started our interview today, you and I were talking about Mr. White and how we’re not going to be able to interview him. Is there anything you’d like to add, before we finish our interview today with you, about working for him? Any memories or anything that you have of him that you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember him as a very intelligent and smart person. I guess until I went to work for Hans Mark I think Jim was really the smartest person I ever met, and remembered everything he learned and knew how to use it. He was kind of a conservative person, but I really admired his intellect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, he was one of the people from Langley that had come?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.639577000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were all in one group, although we worked all over the Center. You just said something that—I can’t remember what it was. You just said something that put a spark in my head, but—oh, I know. It seemed to me that I guess in the latter days of NASA, that engineers, the electrical engineers—it was probably true in the other branches—that they should have been hiring more clerical help and fewer engineers, that the engineers were doing things that were primarily clerical tasks that could have been passed on to other people, and some of them would have been happier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably. Before we started our interview today, you and I were talking about Mr. White and how we’re not going to be able to interview him. Is there anything you’d like to add, before we finish our interview today with you, about working for him? Any memories or anything that you have of him that you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember him as a very intelligent and smart person. I guess until I went to work for Hans Mark I think Jim was really the smartest person I ever met, and remembered everything he learned and knew how to use it. He was kind of a conservative person, but I really admired his intellect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, he was one of the people from Langley that had come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there others that you worked under directly that had come from Langley?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.599530000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember him as a very intelligent and smart person. I guess until I went to work for Hans Mark I think Jim was really the smartest person I ever met, and remembered everything he learned and knew how to use it. He was kind of a conservative person, but I really admired his intellect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, he was one of the people from Langley that had come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there others that you worked under directly that had come from Langley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one man who was in charge of the Drafting Room. It turned out that on one job I had, I had to spend a lot of time with a draftsman, and here I was, a young engineer who really didn’t know what I was doing, and the guy who was the head of the Drafting Room was a Langley engineer, and he was one of those people who wasn’t your supervisor that you learned a great deal from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came to work for the NACA, most of the new hire people that you were working with, were they from this area, or did they recruit them from all over the country to come work with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My badge was number 6-0-6, and obviously, some people had left. About five hundred, I would guess. By the time I left, there were about three thousand, although, as the boss used to put it, there were three thousand people come through the gate every morning, but not all of them were NASA employees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you think Ames changed from the time that you arrived until the time that you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a much more open establishment, open in the sense that individuals had more freedom to pursue their own goals. In general, I think that’s right. It’s obviously much more diverse. It was not just propeller-driven airplanes, and it was not just airplanes, because it involved spacecraft materials and life sciences, so it was a much, much more diverse organization.\\n\\n You read about what they did yesterday?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About Google? Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There you go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s fantastic. Do you have any more questions, Rebecca?\n\nNo.\n\nIs there anything that you’d like to tell us that we might not know about that we should talk about, about NACA? I’m curious to know, did a President ever come out to NACA, [Harry S.] Truman or [Dwight D.] Eisenhower, while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was a much more open establishment, open in the sense that individuals had more freedom to pursue their own goals. In general, I think that’s right. It’s obviously much more diverse. It was not just propeller-driven airplanes, and it was not just airplanes, because it involved spacecraft materials and life sciences, so it was a much, much more diverse organization.\\n\\n You read about what they did yesterday?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About Google? Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There you go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s fantastic. Do you have any more questions, Rebecca?\n\nNo.\n\nIs there anything that you’d like to tell us that we might not know about that we should talk about, about NACA? I’m curious to know, did a President ever come out to NACA, [Harry S.] Truman or [Dwight D.] Eisenhower, while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Lyndon [B.] Johnson came out when he was Vice President."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There you go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s fantastic. Do you have any more questions, Rebecca?\n\nNo.\n\nIs there anything that you’d like to tell us that we might not know about that we should talk about, about NACA? I’m curious to know, did a President ever come out to NACA, [Harry S.] Truman or [Dwight D.] Eisenhower, while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Lyndon [B.] Johnson came out when he was Vice President."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did a demonstration on a moving base simulator for him, that is, motion, force-exhibiting simulator for him. And then I was just reading in a biographical note on George Cooper that George Cooper had flown Lyndon Johnson in one of the simulators. I’ve got a job to take one of the tour groups out to Cooper’s Winery tomorrow, so I dug up some biographical information on him, and I noticed that he said, “Lyndon Johnson said he knew how to fly an airplane, but he didn’t. I had to rescue him every time.” [Laughter]\\n\\n Pat [Thelma Catherine Ryan] Nixon came out one time, but those are the only presidential—well, neither one was president at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve spent a lifetime at Ames. Did you ever think about leaving and moving somewhere else?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00937:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Lyndon [B.] Johnson came out when he was Vice President."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did a demonstration on a moving base simulator for him, that is, motion, force-exhibiting simulator for him. And then I was just reading in a biographical note on George Cooper that George Cooper had flown Lyndon Johnson in one of the simulators. I’ve got a job to take one of the tour groups out to Cooper’s Winery tomorrow, so I dug up some biographical information on him, and I noticed that he said, “Lyndon Johnson said he knew how to fly an airplane, but he didn’t. I had to rescue him every time.” [Laughter]\\n\\n Pat [Thelma Catherine Ryan] Nixon came out one time, but those are the only presidential—well, neither one was president at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve spent a lifetime at Ames. Did you ever think about leaving and moving somewhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, about the time I got this job in flight simulation, I felt that, well, as I told you, I felt that my boss wasn’t physically capable of keeping the place going, and that I was doing a great deal of it—the Electrical Branch—and that I wasn’t getting credit for it or getting paid for it, and yes, I started looking around for a job. Fortunately for me, this other opportunity came up about that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your time this morning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00812:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 30.681690000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was one of the unexpected benefits. That's exactly right.\\n\\n Another one that was interesting, too, is the electromagnetic people. I told you about the difference between their customer groups and the engineering groups. Whenever you had some electrical box that you were going to put on the Mir, that you were going to operate, they had a requirement to do what they call EMI testing, electromagnetic interference testing, on the box. The way you go test that is, they have a ground-based system which is an exact replica of the electrical system on the Mir. You go plug it into their system and test it and see how it operates. We don't normally do that.\\n\\n Our methodology is a little bit different. We have a set of criteria that says you can go test it in our laboratory over here, and if it doesn't exceed a certain level, it's acceptable. So ours is to a criteria to a standard across the United States; theirs is to a specific set of criteria for the Mir. So the science guys were finding it extremely difficult in trying to meet their criteria. Well, one of our guys, particularly a guy named Art Reubens, who is an EMI expert, has since retired, Art worked with our labs over here to design a system that emulated the Mir, set up a criteria there that we could test the boxes here for EMI and the Russians would accept the results of that particular one. So the testing, rather than having to ship the boxes to Russia to be tested, they can be tested here and accepted by the Russians. So that was another one that was very similar to the water transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The evolutions were internal, external, every which way, and I guess international as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "International as well. That's exactly right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've worked for NASA since 1962."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to make an assumption that on your first job that you would have never thought you'd be ending up talking with the Russians on so many detailed pieces of information and working to put a successful partnership together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00812:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "January 2, 1999."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you pick that date to give you enough time to finish Shuttle-Mir and all the paperwork associated or that's your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Mir ended up and crossed my mind. Of course, the Mir was a second job for me. Our primary job in our office is to define the requirements for all the Shuttle elements to fly, as well as all the payload. So we had both the systems integration and the cargo integration side of the house in our particular shop. So that's our primary job.\\n\\n The Mir, to us, we were kind of matrix to Frank as a secondary job. And so, yes, it crossed my mind that the end of the Mir Program was within the time that I was still going to be here before I retired, but the to pick the date was not driven by Mir. Thirty-six years is enough time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're ready to move on and watch others put the Station together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And watch others go do that. I just hope I get to see the first Station launch before I retire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We do, too. We thank you for your time. We wish you luck in your next life, but we know that you've got a few months here and I'm sure every day they're going to get all the work out of they can till you're gone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.345636381785681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember him coming up to me. And, you know, he like put his hand on my shoulder and tears in his eyes. It's like, Be careful over there. And I said it's so, you know, Kazakhstan, it's okay. It's fine. Um, it's not it's not Afghanistan. And like this is in a war zone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there's, you know, lots of those sort of like preconceived notions. And I think to some degree, maybe I had some of that. Like, I mean, I had this sense like, OK, it's not it's not as like. I can't make that broad of a generalization about Kazakhstan, and that means something specific. But my sense is just like I don't really know anything about it, you know, so Peace Corps send some materials and it was kind of reading through that. And so that was kind of my first exposure to a lot of the culture and history of Central Asia at the time. Yeah. Before up until then, other than like a random geography quiz, I suppose, in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So again, that's sort of just feeling of of curiosity and exploration. And just that was piqued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So what was your reaction once you were invited or accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.867392134982268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, even coming back to visit for I think I came back for a week or two. Um, the summer after my first year of service. And really all of my friends, except for maybe like one or two, they moved on. They're doing their own things and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and that's kind of how life goes, you know, it's just it's always moving and changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think that was a big realization to me to like really, experience each day for what it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What were the reactions of your friends and family when you made your decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.480661324553928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I, I had I had preference at the time. I think that application is different now. But at the time, you could preference a region. So I did preference East Europe, and that's largely because of my heritage, my family, you know, maybe can tell from the name, OK, but they immigrated from what was Austria at the time, Austinite, the Austrian empire at the late 19th century. So they were actually were Texas Czechs. So there's a big Czech community in central Texas, among others, you know, German community and stuff like that. So I really wanted to explore more Slavic cultures, and that's my preference to East Europe. And so getting the invitation to go to Kazakhstan, that was something that I was like kind of agonizing over a little bit like, if I turned it down, what would the next invitation be? Would it be what I preference? What if it's not? What if it's something that's even further removed from what I had imagined? And so I ended up accepting, um, Kazakhstan again, really not knowing anything about it. But the it ended up working out because I ended up being in a Russian village in the northern part of Kazakhstan with the host family for two years. So I still got to I got what I, you know, kind of wanted to get out of it and getting a better sense of Slavic and maybe post-Soviet culture or Soviet culture, even though it's very it's very different, I think, than the Czech experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I was invited to being an English lit major, doomed to a future of graduate work. Oh yeah. I did a I did an English education position. So I was in a little village of twenty five hundred people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you taught English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And taught English to all grades from fifth through eleventh. And I also started some um, some sort of optional elective English courses as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where and how were you trained to prepare for your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.534068138393254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then I was invited to being an English lit major, doomed to a future of graduate work. Oh yeah. I did a I did an English education position. So I was in a little village of twenty five hundred people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you taught English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And taught English to all grades from fifth through eleventh. And I also started some um, some sort of optional elective English courses as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where and how were you trained to prepare for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My training in the sort of nuts and bolts of teaching was during Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Pre-service training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.770454491843521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My training in the sort of nuts and bolts of teaching was during Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Pre-service training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So other than that, my love for English and for literature and I think just my own tendencies to like the technical nature of grammar and poetry of the of the language like was more preparation for me. So I think it was more individual and personal. But the actual training was. Yeah. During our 11 week pre service training before we actually got to the site. And so that was in country. Yeah. So I've never really had any formal teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so really what I think I was meant to be was a, um, a native speaking connection. Um, a resource for the local English teacher. Um, bringing some bringing some different perspectives and techniques to teaching, because the system itself, like I think. I think what it felt like is that I was more a catalyst, not necessarily"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An expert. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.078282768715024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So other than that, my love for English and for literature and I think just my own tendencies to like the technical nature of grammar and poetry of the of the language like was more preparation for me. So I think it was more individual and personal. But the actual training was. Yeah. During our 11 week pre service training before we actually got to the site. And so that was in country. Yeah. So I've never really had any formal teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so really what I think I was meant to be was a, um, a native speaking connection. Um, a resource for the local English teacher. Um, bringing some bringing some different perspectives and techniques to teaching, because the system itself, like I think. I think what it felt like is that I was more a catalyst, not necessarily"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An expert. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was I was a catalyst to create some sort of change within the education system, which had largely been defined by the Soviet system, centralized top down rote and learning education model, as opposed to maybe more of the like constructivist scaffolding approaches to education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn a language during your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.198091965238914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so really what I think I was meant to be was a, um, a native speaking connection. Um, a resource for the local English teacher. Um, bringing some bringing some different perspectives and techniques to teaching, because the system itself, like I think. I think what it felt like is that I was more a catalyst, not necessarily"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "An expert. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was I was a catalyst to create some sort of change within the education system, which had largely been defined by the Soviet system, centralized top down rote and learning education model, as opposed to maybe more of the like constructivist scaffolding approaches to education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn a language during your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's my first exposure. I didn't know any Russian before I went and found out that that was like the language that most people spoke. Other than Kazakh, which was what ethnic Kazaks spoke. But I learned that as well during pre-service training. But because of my I think my background in languages and music, I did pretty well with the language. And it kind of took to it pretty quickly. But I didn't know anything. Like I got to learn the alphabet and a few like words before I left. Yeah, it was it was fun. I still I have lots of fond memories from training just because it was just so many like so many like new and exciting experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And where was the actual training site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.997879961376571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was I was a catalyst to create some sort of change within the education system, which had largely been defined by the Soviet system, centralized top down rote and learning education model, as opposed to maybe more of the like constructivist scaffolding approaches to education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn a language during your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's my first exposure. I didn't know any Russian before I went and found out that that was like the language that most people spoke. Other than Kazakh, which was what ethnic Kazaks spoke. But I learned that as well during pre-service training. But because of my I think my background in languages and music, I did pretty well with the language. And it kind of took to it pretty quickly. But I didn't know anything. Like I got to learn the alphabet and a few like words before I left. Yeah, it was it was fun. I still I have lots of fond memories from training just because it was just so many like so many like new and exciting experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And where was the actual training site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was just outside of Almaty, which is one of the larger cities of Kazakhstan in the south. And we were outside. And some neighboring districts in this town called Esik. E-S-I-K. Well, it's different in Russia. And so what was what was interesting about it is that we were in a village. It was it was a Uighur village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A what village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.798189247430138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uighur. It's an ethnic group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, historically nomadic population kind of coming from the, you know, the ancient Mongols. But they're kind of like it's kind of like a it's kind of like the Kurds. It's a nation without a state, without a state. So a lot of the Uighurs live in western China. And they've been in the news a lot because of the reeducation programs and some of the oppression that's been perpetrated on them by the Chinese government. But there's a huge population of them in Kazakhstan as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they have their own kind of language, their own culture and history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know any of their language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.923690428926096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they have their own kind of language, their own culture and history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know any of their language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I didn't get to learn any. I did get to learn one of their traditional instruments, though. So there was a there was a girl in the village that that played and performed. And I thought it would be fun just to kind of pick it up. So I learned I learned a song and I ended up playing it in our sort of like training. Graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was so fun because most of the volunteers actually lived with Uighur families, especially in our town. And so they all got in and we're dancing and singing along with it. It was, I was really nervous, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live with a Uighur family? Did anybody not at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.581878254362329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I didn't get to learn any. I did get to learn one of their traditional instruments, though. So there was a there was a girl in the village that that played and performed. And I thought it would be fun just to kind of pick it up. So I learned I learned a song and I ended up playing it in our sort of like training. Graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was so fun because most of the volunteers actually lived with Uighur families, especially in our town. And so they all got in and we're dancing and singing along with it. It was, I was really nervous, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live with a Uighur family? Did anybody not at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they at a central site or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.125775622669542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they at a central site or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in because of our cohort was kind of large. I think it was close to 40. No, I mean, maybe 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in multiple villages around the training site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. How did you get from there if you needed to go in to class, or to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.028639580743935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were in because of our cohort was kind of large. I think it was close to 40. No, I mean, maybe 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in multiple villages around the training site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. How did you get from there if you needed to go in to class, or to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took busses. Okay. And what was the traditional instrument that you played? Oh, you don't remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.031821756382149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in multiple villages around the training site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice. How did you get from there if you needed to go in to class, or to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took busses. Okay. And what was the traditional instrument that you played? Oh, you don't remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, is it stringed or is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.146468618202388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took busses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took busses. Okay. And what was the traditional instrument that you played? Oh, you don't remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, is it stringed or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is stringed. Yeah. There are two strings. I can’t remember the name. I’ll have to look it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had busses in your country. That's posh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.384965131335987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, is it stringed or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is stringed. Yeah. There are two strings. I can’t remember the name. I’ll have to look it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had busses in your country. That's posh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. The public transportation is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. So did you have to have any kind of transportation? Were you were you were you pre cell phone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.427739034817762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is stringed. Yeah. There are two strings. I can’t remember the name. I’ll have to look it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had busses in your country. That's posh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. The public transportation is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. So did you have to have any kind of transportation? Were you were you were you pre cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were on the cusp. Yeah. Yeah, 2004 to 2006. So cell phones were becoming more mainstream. And later, when I did get to site, I think probably after six months or so, I did get my own cell phone that I would use whenever I went to went to the town. So in the village, there was no cell phone reception. But it was easy to. It was easy to have just a little a cell phone to coordinate with the other Peace Corps volunteers that were in the city. Yeah, because we had secondary projects going on together, music clubs and language speaking clubs and stuff like that.\n\nSo, yeah, that was that was. It's funny. We joke like, you know, some of the connecting with some of the other RPCVs. So talking about like if you have a cell phone, it's not Peace Corps, it’s Posh Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So did you. So back to one of my questions. Did you have a bike or were you entirely reliant on public transport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.586376705353068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. The public transportation is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. So did you have to have any kind of transportation? Were you were you were you pre cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were on the cusp. Yeah. Yeah, 2004 to 2006. So cell phones were becoming more mainstream. And later, when I did get to site, I think probably after six months or so, I did get my own cell phone that I would use whenever I went to went to the town. So in the village, there was no cell phone reception. But it was easy to. It was easy to have just a little a cell phone to coordinate with the other Peace Corps volunteers that were in the city. Yeah, because we had secondary projects going on together, music clubs and language speaking clubs and stuff like that.\n\nSo, yeah, that was that was. It's funny. We joke like, you know, some of the connecting with some of the other RPCVs. So talking about like if you have a cell phone, it's not Peace Corps, it’s Posh Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So did you. So back to one of my questions. Did you have a bike or were you entirely reliant on public transport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm walking and public transportation. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your village? Your village was where was it in the country or what was the name of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.625156426361812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm walking and public transportation. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your village? Your village was where was it in the country or what was the name of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So once I got to the site, I was in a village called Tarhanka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in this little river valley. It was kind of an agriculture community during the Soviet Union. It was a large it was they had a horse. I am a collective farm, and they raised a lot of pigs and um. And they farmed sunflowers. Oh, wow. So and during the during the summer months, there would just be miles and miles of yellow fields in the distance and uh, just a really beautiful, beautiful village. One main road, now on this little river. So yeah, it was really, I mean, it didn't it didn't feel like a village in some ways because they had such a great infrastructure that even remained. I'm not great, but I mean, like they had infrastructure that remained from the Soviet Union that that that still was functional and houses had like heated, heated radiator systems, coal stoves and stuff like that. So the houses were really well kept. But a lot of the centralized buildings and services that were run by the Soviet Union had collapsed a lot and deteriorated. There was a dome cultura, a House of Culture, that this little village, 2,500 people, you know, they had this huge Soviet house of culture where they would do performances and they had they would have musical instruments and sporting equipment for all the village people. But without the without the central funding, you know, that just there were still some people that kind of kept it up. Um, the school is a lot like that, too. You know, they would kind of have to patch a patch a lot and put some band aids on it. But the houses were really kind of like independent and well-kept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your initial entry into the country like? What were your initial reactions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.459748184309756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I talked a little bit about that earlier, but yeah, really just like I didn't really know anything about it. And so I my first introduction was sort of like a the booklet that Peace Corps sent. Yeah. About the history and some of the history and some of the culture. And um, but even that, I mean, it's that's hard to put into words. And practically when you're on the ground and kind of seeing how people who have such a lot of their history and culture has been, interwoven and subverted and co-opted by. Soviet culture in many ways. It was really interesting, seeing as how the nation was actually working through developing a collective identity after as they're as they're developing their nation after the fall of the Soviet Union. I was coming in. This was I mean, a little over a decade after the Soviet Union fell. And so they were they were doing a lot of like developing a real sense of nationalism around in many ways, a sort of like imagined and idealized vision of what their culture used to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I mean, in some ways, it may have been made up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was it was hard to tell because it had been part of the Soviet Union and then part of the Russian empire even before that. Right. And so a lot of that was lost. So they were really kind of recreating it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember your emotional reactions? Do you remember periods where you were really lonely and or wanted to go home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.626349922740063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would wake up. It would be dark. I'd go to class and it would be cold. And the school would put plastic film over the windows to keep the cold out. So there would be this sort of hazy sunlight coming through the windows. And then when classes ended, I'd leave and it'd be dark again. So that first winter, we got down to like negative. Forty five degrees. I was indoors a lot of the time. Right. And I didn't really have anyone my age or still was learning the lines while I was. So I was really lonely, isolated, and I was probably depressed. So, yeah, working through that. And at the same time, like I would also I was also kind of like trying to figure out, like, how do I how do I work through some of the, navigate some of these like ethical dilemmas that I had sort of imagined, like, OK, no one here's my age. Like as soon as they graduate kids graduating high school, they're they like they typically would leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So really, the only people that were there were the old people that that just end up staying there, stuck, they had the property there. Right. Or my students. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was really difficult to kind of make relationships, let alone like navigating like the cultural norms about how you how you build relationships and how men interact. Yeah. So I had to, that was that was that was challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just mentioned how men interact. What was so different about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.237057228302024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I struggled a lot with that. Like, I mean, I didn't want all of my relationships to be about like, okay, I have I have to drink, you know, to have some sort of relationship. But that's where I felt like a lot of men would approach me. They're like, hey, let's go get something to drink, you know? And especially with the young people, too. And so how do I have relationships with my students, especially with my own kind of my Western perceptions of, you know, authority, the dynamics of authority and power, power as a teacher over them? Um, you know, I I'm not going to drink with my students right now. Like I can't do that. So there was always this. And eventually it just kind of it became so it became so tiring to feel like constantly having to navigate that. That that added, I think, a lot to my feeling of isolation. It was easier to back or back away and isolate myself to some degree than it was to try and interact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's really one of my biggest regrets, I think, is giving in to that temptation to just isolate myself. Um, I mean, it wasn't always like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, but in the village, there was that sort of like that sense of oppression. That's a strong word, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you were to advise an incoming or new volunteer on how to work through that, what we through the feelings of isolation, how would you how would you advise them? Looking back now that you're wiser."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.41707264865116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a lot of it was I mean, that that kind of goes hand in hand with the language and sort of having to stumble through that. It just takes it does take a lot of work. And so being OK with that. And so that's the that's the one piece like it takes, I think, having a good support around you to be able to have to always put that energy in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really thinking through some good strategies for mindfulness. If that's prayer. If that's some journaling. And putting in the work really to know yourself better and be more aware of yourself, which is something that I think that was one of the pieces of my story growing up in central Texas, being educated in central Texas, having this sense that I do need to be more aware, but not really having the tools to increase my own awareness and going into Peace Corps. So I had to like all of that was done on the fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so I think it really benefits someone who's stepping into different, who's stepping into cultural difference and navigating that. To do to do more on the front end. And developing their intercultural competency, um, finding a mentor or finding a coach. And then it's easier now, I imagine, with social media and more connected connectivity to have some familiar support structures, whether it's family or friends, to be able to work through and work through that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were the specifics of the job to which you were assigned? And what were your living arrangements?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.45720568305313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, so I was teaching, like I mentioned, all classes. So they would typically have two lessons a week, except for some grades that would have three lessons a week. So I felt like I was constantly like lesson planning, doing teaching lessons. So it was all throughout the week. So pretty much it felt like 9:00 to 5:00. Yeah, there's a full there's a full day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you would get there at nine. And how long? I don't know. Probably I don't understand the structure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably more like 8:00 to 4:00 I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they were the classes two hours long? One hour long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were usually, I think, 50 minutes. Ok, 45 or 50 minutes. So, yeah, it would be sort of like rotating through, you know, I'd teach like fifth grade on Tuesday, Thursday, OK, I teach 11th grade on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so it was always like I'd get there early. I do lesson planning, prepare for the day, prepare the materials, teach one lesson, maybe have a break, teach another lesson. The next day would be very similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so did you do most of your lesson planning at school then? Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Was the school open air or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.61911742561459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably more like 8:00 to 4:00 I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they were the classes two hours long? One hour long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were usually, I think, 50 minutes. Ok, 45 or 50 minutes. So, yeah, it would be sort of like rotating through, you know, I'd teach like fifth grade on Tuesday, Thursday, OK, I teach 11th grade on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so it was always like I'd get there early. I do lesson planning, prepare for the day, prepare the materials, teach one lesson, maybe have a break, teach another lesson. The next day would be very similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so did you do most of your lesson planning at school then? Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Was the school open air or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. It was a building. Old, old Soviet Brutalist square building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were the windows glass or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.9101304729051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were usually, I think, 50 minutes. Ok, 45 or 50 minutes. So, yeah, it would be sort of like rotating through, you know, I'd teach like fifth grade on Tuesday, Thursday, OK, I teach 11th grade on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so it was always like I'd get there early. I do lesson planning, prepare for the day, prepare the materials, teach one lesson, maybe have a break, teach another lesson. The next day would be very similar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so did you do most of your lesson planning at school then? Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Was the school open air or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. It was a building. Old, old Soviet Brutalist square building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were the windows glass or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Windows were glass? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where are you in your living arrangements? Did you have a room or a separate room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.900144969894557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was. It was a building. Old, old Soviet Brutalist square building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Were the windows glass or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Windows were glass? Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where are you in your living arrangements? Did you have a room or a separate room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, separate room. That was part of the agreement, right? So, yeah, it was a separate room with a lock. Um, shared a shared a bathroom upstairs with the other guest room. So when the when their son was home, like we would share their bathroom. But otherwise I had it to myself. And yeah, it was actually more of like a futon like daybed and did have a balcony, but it was effectively closed for half the year because of the cold. We put plastic over the over the door. But it was super warm because of the attablini, the radiation system when it would be like it. It's a coal stove, but then the heat would run through the pipes of the whole house. And so like I mean, middle of the winter, 45 degrees outside, and there would be like a hundred degrees in my room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, what were your relationships with other people? Did you make friends in the town or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.367398211476159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I even had the one of the local um, the minister of education of our region, which is kind of like a county, I guess, or state. Yeah. State came and wanted to interview me, just to, you know, make sure that I was a good kid and not spying. I mean, there was nothing there to spy on. It was a village of 2,500 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, there was always that sort of like a little undercurrent of that fear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I mean, in rural and rural America, you see the same thing, right. The reds, the commies, the right like there was huge in the eighties and nineties have growing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.40822023497351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, there was always that sort of like a little undercurrent of that fear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I mean, in rural and rural America, you see the same thing, right. The reds, the commies, the right like there was huge in the eighties and nineties have growing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And still you I mean, you still see some of that today. You know, the relationship politically between us and Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take any vacations or travel while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8980224833038974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I mean, in rural and rural America, you see the same thing, right. The reds, the commies, the right like there was huge in the eighties and nineties have growing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And still you I mean, you still see some of that today. You know, the relationship politically between us and Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take any vacations or travel while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did come home once in the summer right before the pre- service training for the new group, because I assisted with the training for the second group coming in a year after I did. And that was a think for about a week and a half. I also went to southern Kazakhstan to this town called Shymkent for the Persian New Year, Nowruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that fun?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.442247203670997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And still you I mean, you still see some of that today. You know, the relationship politically between us and Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you take any vacations or travel while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did come home once in the summer right before the pre- service training for the new group, because I assisted with the training for the second group coming in a year after I did. And that was a think for about a week and a half. I also went to southern Kazakhstan to this town called Shymkent for the Persian New Year, Nowruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did call the Persian New Year? Never mind. OK, keep going."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0469413374122185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did come home once in the summer right before the pre- service training for the new group, because I assisted with the training for the second group coming in a year after I did. And that was a think for about a week and a half. I also went to southern Kazakhstan to this town called Shymkent for the Persian New Year, Nowruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did call the Persian New Year? Never mind. OK, keep going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also to just some of the surrounding countryside in the state where I was. But I really I spent the majority of my time on site. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think were your main accomplishments, your regrets?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.718823708235798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did call the Persian New Year? Never mind. OK, keep going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also to just some of the surrounding countryside in the state where I was. But I really I spent the majority of my time on site. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think were your main accomplishments, your regrets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard because I mean, I know, I'm sure that there was some impact. I just don't really see. There wasn't anything like clearly measurable. The so there were lots of relationships I had with students. Some of those kind of continued. But it's hard to keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept in touch with anybody?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.465359675817553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also to just some of the surrounding countryside in the state where I was. But I really I spent the majority of my time on site. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think were your main accomplishments, your regrets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's hard because I mean, I know, I'm sure that there was some impact. I just don't really see. There wasn't anything like clearly measurable. The so there were lots of relationships I had with students. Some of those kind of continued. But it's hard to keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you kept in touch with anybody?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some I'd write I've written letters to my host family and some emails and stuff like that. They're not too tech savvy. So I you know, I do handwritten letters every once in a while. And I've connected with some of my former students and they're kind of all over the place. So a lot of the a lot of the women, this was just sort of like some of the norms, I guess, in terms of profession. More women would be involved in language learning. That was sort of the big field and like interpretation and translation. Some businesses, you know, they would do like economics and language. Those were the sort of big fields for women. A lot of the men were more pushed to do like more either agriculture, if they're staying in the village or go on to, you know, more technical, technical fields. So there weren't a ton of there weren't a ton of men in my class, mostly women. As far as your students went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So how do you feel about or how was your reentry into the United States? Can you talk a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.560422842455802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was around. And when I came back, this was around the same time that like Naked juice, all that had come out. And I remember just going to the store. Huge supermarkets, right? Wal-Mart Supercenter HEB Superstore. Target Superstore. And there'd be like this huge, huge refrigerated case full of, you know, green, different shades of green and orange and red and pink and purple juices like so many and just like bombarding me. So that was like that was just, I think, one sense of overwhelming. And I experienced, again, through it through the eyes of my wife when she came, she was from Kazakhstan. We met there and, you know, kind of her coming here and just like menus in restaurants, like all of the choices. And we're in our culture, we're so accustomed to having things in individualized. It's exactly the way we want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we don't have a sense of really like what it means to, I think, give something up or compromise. It's easy. It's easier for us to think of to be self-absorbed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was something that I was trying to be mindful of, too. And I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when I asked you about your relationships, you didn't mention your wife? So how did you meet her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.511580936062002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we don't have a sense of really like what it means to, I think, give something up or compromise. It's easy. It's easier for us to think of to be self-absorbed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was something that I was trying to be mindful of, too. And I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when I asked you about your relationships, you didn't mention your wife? So how did you meet her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're talking about my village. I met her at the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she wasn't in your village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.2859023902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you're talking about my village. I met her at the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, she wasn't in your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I met her at one of the conversation clubs that we hosted in the town. So she just came, she was a college student. And yeah, I saw her looking at me, although she says I was looking at her. But yeah, we just kind of got to know each other through the clubs. And I'd invite her out. And we had just lots of conversations. And we were kind of we were dating for about nine months before I COS’ed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we kind of like decided to be friends. But pretty quickly after that, we kept chatting and talking and. Yeah. And ultimately decided. So we did long distance for about a year before she you know, she came to the U.S. on a fiancée visa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, nice. Oh, that's so romantic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.873224878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I met her at one of the conversation clubs that we hosted in the town. So she just came, she was a college student. And yeah, I saw her looking at me, although she says I was looking at her. But yeah, we just kind of got to know each other through the clubs. And I'd invite her out. And we had just lots of conversations. And we were kind of we were dating for about nine months before I COS’ed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we kind of like decided to be friends. But pretty quickly after that, we kept chatting and talking and. Yeah. And ultimately decided. So we did long distance for about a year before she you know, she came to the U.S. on a fiancée visa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, nice. Oh, that's so romantic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We're going to be married now 12 years in July. 7-7-7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's beautiful. Were you tempted to stay on longer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.52580542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we kind of like decided to be friends. But pretty quickly after that, we kept chatting and talking and. Yeah. And ultimately decided. So we did long distance for about a year before she you know, she came to the U.S. on a fiancée visa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, nice. Oh, that's so romantic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We're going to be married now 12 years in July. 7-7-7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's beautiful. Were you tempted to stay on longer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Tempted. I felt like there was just the sort of push to like, you know, you kind of go two years and you can extend, but it's sort of like an exception. And so I felt like it wasn't really an option. At the same time, I was looking into graduate school. So, yeah, I ended up just going to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see. Have you gone back to visit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.821982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Tempted. I felt like there was just the sort of push to like, you know, you kind of go two years and you can extend, but it's sort of like an exception. And so I felt like it wasn't really an option. At the same time, I was looking into graduate school. So, yeah, I ended up just going to graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see. Have you gone back to visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went once the year later when I went to go meet my fiancée. And I visited the town, but I haven't been back since. It's just so expensive to fly there. And now we have kids, too. That's more. But I think we'll go back. We'll go back eventually. Yeah, I think. My well, my wife has also visited, I think maybe once since then. But even when she went to visit, she said, like so much has changed since then, doesn't really feel the same. And her family's kind of spread out. So there's really no huge reason to take us back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. For better or for worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are in Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association. Are you in Friends of Kazakhstan or any other organizations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.57998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went once the year later when I went to go meet my fiancée. And I visited the town, but I haven't been back since. It's just so expensive to fly there. And now we have kids, too. That's more. But I think we'll go back. We'll go back eventually. Yeah, I think. My well, my wife has also visited, I think maybe once since then. But even when she went to visit, she said, like so much has changed since then, doesn't really feel the same. And her family's kind of spread out. So there's really no huge reason to take us back there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. For better or for worse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are in Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association. Are you in Friends of Kazakhstan or any other organizations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Associated with Peace Corps, obviously. What have you done to fulfill what is the. I read something that the third the three goals have changed. I thought one of the three goals were to bring the world back home. What have you done in that way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00114:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm bringing that to, uh, bringing that to central Texas, increasing the awareness that. And I did that within. I'm trying to do that more within local church, so I'm a leader in my local church and I'm developing a workshop for talking about, you know, into intercultural, intercultural awareness within the body of Christ. Has a church that is is supposed to be united in diversity. Something that, you know, Paul talked a lot about as he was going around in the early church and meeting with people who are Greeks and Romans and Jews from various backgrounds, Hellenistic Jews or Greek speaking Jews or whatever. And so that was a huge topic in the early church. And I don't think that's changed much right. In the history of the church. And so that needs a lot of work with just people recognizing that there is a culture and that that doesn't that like Western Protestant culture as it's as it's as it exists in the U.S. isn't per se like biblical culture. And there's lots of room for how do we how do we navigate that and discuss that openly? Create a sense of vulnerability and, you know, putting ourselves in in these learning situations to say like, hey, your experience has been different than mine. But we're still part of the same church. So what does that mean? It's not just minimizing difference. It's, you know, how do we celebrate our unity but recognize that there are there are and we all have our different stories and how that plays into who we are as a church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's something I'm working on right now, which I think is important work, too, as we experience more polarization. Yes. And within US culture and where the church has played a role in that historically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even now, in sort of like, you know, evangelical politics, which yeah, it's a it's a hard topic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Is there something you would like to talk about that I haven't touched on in this interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5518272984448904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were educated in South Carolina; you got an MA and a PHD from George Washington. What was the subject ofyour PHD?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dissertation?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a history major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "History? Yes. George Washington had at that time 5 fields with a doctorate and 3 ofthem were in history and there were a couple of others in economics and social history. So it's mainly history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked at the Library of Congress."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9464747760498784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dissertation?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you a history major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "History? Yes. George Washington had at that time 5 fields with a doctorate and 3 ofthem were in history and there were a couple of others in economics and social history. So it's mainly history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked at the Library of Congress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.384971973388754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "History? Yes. George Washington had at that time 5 fields with a doctorate and 3 ofthem were in history and there were a couple of others in economics and social history. So it's mainly history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked at the Library of Congress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a reference librarian in the local history and genealogy section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that prepare you for a career at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.872191081543059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a reference librarian in the local history and genealogy section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that prepare you for a career at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there were a lot of genealogists wandering around the National Archives. But in that job I really got a respect for genealogists. They are very good researchers and don't deserve the scorn they get in most research places where they work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position at the National Portrait Gallery?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.413545646158955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a reference librarian in the local history and genealogy section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that prepare you for a career at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there were a lot of genealogists wandering around the National Archives. But in that job I really got a respect for genealogists. They are very good researchers and don't deserve the scorn they get in most research places where they work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position at the National Portrait Gallery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was Assistant Historian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you publish anything there while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.9039396068432834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well there were a lot of genealogists wandering around the National Archives. But in that job I really got a respect for genealogists. They are very good researchers and don't deserve the scorn they get in most research places where they work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your position at the National Portrait Gallery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was Assistant Historian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you publish anything there while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in charge of popular publications and for the first exhibition we had a very good catalogue. I edited that and enjoyed doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you recruited by Frank Burke to come to the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1154884520480928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was Assistant Historian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you publish anything there while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in charge of popular publications and for the first exhibition we had a very good catalogue. I edited that and enjoyed doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you recruited by Frank Burke to come to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I met him through ... we were putting together at the National Portrait Gallery a catalogue of American Portraits. And we were trying to work toward putting that on computer. And so my boss there, Dan Reed, brought in Frank Burke to help us with the computer work. And we worked together on that catalogue and then Frank invited me to come over here and work for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first position at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2394316133867698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in charge of popular publications and for the first exhibition we had a very good catalogue. I edited that and enjoyed doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you recruited by Frank Burke to come to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I met him through ... we were putting together at the National Portrait Gallery a catalogue of American Portraits. And we were trying to work toward putting that on computer. And so my boss there, Dan Reed, brought in Frank Burke to help us with the computer work. And we worked together on that catalogue and then Frank invited me to come over here and work for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first position at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Director of popular publications and exhibitions in the Education Programs department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first reaction to being at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.377146237096411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I met him through ... we were putting together at the National Portrait Gallery a catalogue of American Portraits. And we were trying to work toward putting that on computer. And so my boss there, Dan Reed, brought in Frank Burke to help us with the computer work. And we worked together on that catalogue and then Frank invited me to come over here and work for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first position at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Director of popular publications and exhibitions in the Education Programs department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first reaction to being at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember, it was a bit overwhelming because I'd been working in a very small place but people were nice and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through any training program when you first came to the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5301624856626788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Director of popular publications and exhibitions in the Education Programs department."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first reaction to being at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember, it was a bit overwhelming because I'd been working in a very small place but people were nice and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through any training program when you first came to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was any training offered to you when you first came, just to get used to the building?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7001805396251986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember, it was a bit overwhelming because I'd been working in a very small place but people were nice and I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through any training program when you first came to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was any training offered to you when you first came, just to get used to the building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No (laughs)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Frank provide training?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0989883205249362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No (laughs)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Frank provide training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not formally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not formally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But kind of on a day to day basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3322092450277068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not formally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not formally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But kind of on a day to day basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in Educational Programs in those days?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.879270672873712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in Educational Programs in those days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think about 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody working for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1991896365263464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think about 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody working for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had a staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.55465515169594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody working for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had a staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8385057241066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had a staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three and four. And then interns, summer interns I had a lot of. And some of them came to work for the Archives later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to put up an exhibit in those days for the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.1538952490073333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three and four. And then interns, summer interns I had a lot of. And some of them came to work for the Archives later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to put up an exhibit in those days for the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I just had the editing and history part ofit. Frank himself had the installation of exhibits. So I didn't have much to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became the specialist in Women's history with Mabel Dietrich. How long after you started did that take place?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2821058322303704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three and four. And then interns, summer interns I had a lot of. And some of them came to work for the Archives later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to put up an exhibit in those days for the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I just had the editing and history part ofit. Frank himself had the installation of exhibits. So I didn't have much to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became the specialist in Women's history with Mabel Dietrich. How long after you started did that take place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that it was the year of 1976 that I was women's history specialist. Just the one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one year?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4245620358115227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well I just had the editing and history part ofit. Frank himself had the installation of exhibits. So I didn't have much to do with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became the specialist in Women's history with Mabel Dietrich. How long after you started did that take place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that it was the year of 1976 that I was women's history specialist. Just the one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you assisted Mabel Dietrich in putting together the conference on Women's History?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5828467064572476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that it was the year of 1976 that I was women's history specialist. Just the one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you assisted Mabel Dietrich in putting together the conference on Women's History?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of work did that involve?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.758718562730275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you assisted Mabel Dietrich in putting together the conference on Women's History?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of work did that involve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Contacting people who were prominent in Women's history. And that was very interesting because I met a lot of historians and I enjoyed that very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That conference series was very successful in the 1970s for the National Archives."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9541317363669723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of work did that involve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Contacting people who were prominent in Women's history. And that was very interesting because I met a lot of historians and I enjoyed that very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That conference series was very successful in the 1970s for the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Particularly the Women's History Conference. It stood out among the others we put on."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1712574848521915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Contacting people who were prominent in Women's history. And that was very interesting because I met a lot of historians and I enjoyed that very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That conference series was very successful in the 1970s for the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Particularly the Women's History Conference. It stood out among the others we put on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was sort of a new field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship with Mabel Dietrich?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.412508316502435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Particularly the Women's History Conference. It stood out among the others we put on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was sort of a new field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship with Mabel Dietrich?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Scared to death of her to start out. And then we became bosom friends and kept that friendship until she died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of supervisor was she like?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6805647961138166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was sort of a new field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your relationship with Mabel Dietrich?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Scared to death of her to start out. And then we became bosom friends and kept that friendship until she died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of supervisor was she like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A very loose supervisor, no real close attention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two ofyou worked to put the conference together. Did she direct you specifically or did she allow you to have the run ofthe conference?_"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.978405329015352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Scared to death of her to start out. And then we became bosom friends and kept that friendship until she died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of supervisor was she like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A very loose supervisor, no real close attention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two ofyou worked to put the conference together. Did she direct you specifically or did she allow you to have the run ofthe conference?_"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She left me on my own but was always available if I needed help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk on a daily basis, hourly basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.309339254461502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A very loose supervisor, no real close attention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The two ofyou worked to put the conference together. Did she direct you specifically or did she allow you to have the run ofthe conference?_"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She left me on my own but was always available if I needed help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk on a daily basis, hourly basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I had an office on the other side of the entrance ofto her suite. So I was in constant touch with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it difficult to get people to come to conferences at the National Archives in those days?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6770436160683357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She left me on my own but was always available if I needed help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk on a daily basis, hourly basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I had an office on the other side of the entrance ofto her suite. So I was in constant touch with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it difficult to get people to come to conferences at the National Archives in those days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The audiences for the women's conferences were capacity?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.085604017853706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I had an office on the other side of the entrance ofto her suite. So I was in constant touch with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it difficult to get people to come to conferences at the National Archives in those days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The audiences for the women's conferences were capacity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a lot of feed back from the conference?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.539560019837451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The audiences for the women's conferences were capacity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a lot of feed back from the conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure what you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people who came to the conference comment to you about the National Archives being involved in this initiative?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.043955577597167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a lot of feed back from the conference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure what you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people who came to the conference comment to you about the National Archives being involved in this initiative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worried me that a lot of people didn't seem to know what the purposes of the conferences were. I gave a paper outlining the kinds of sources available for women's history in the National Archives and later on I found out that one lady said, \"I don't know what you were driving at\" so I evidently didn't do a very good job of saying this, well she said you covered so many things. Well what I did was try to show how each part of.the National Archives had records relating to women's history for researchers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did we get more researchers in after ...?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.493283975107963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure what you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people who came to the conference comment to you about the National Archives being involved in this initiative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worried me that a lot of people didn't seem to know what the purposes of the conferences were. I gave a paper outlining the kinds of sources available for women's history in the National Archives and later on I found out that one lady said, \"I don't know what you were driving at\" so I evidently didn't do a very good job of saying this, well she said you covered so many things. Well what I did was try to show how each part of.the National Archives had records relating to women's history for researchers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did we get more researchers in after ...?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I don't know. (laughs) Time out for photographs (9:02)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the women's history conference which provided en tree to records relating to women in the National Archives."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.992537750119959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worried me that a lot of people didn't seem to know what the purposes of the conferences were. I gave a paper outlining the kinds of sources available for women's history in the National Archives and later on I found out that one lady said, \"I don't know what you were driving at\" so I evidently didn't do a very good job of saying this, well she said you covered so many things. Well what I did was try to show how each part of.the National Archives had records relating to women's history for researchers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did we get more researchers in after ...?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I don't know. (laughs) Time out for photographs (9:02)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the women's history conference which provided en tree to records relating to women in the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like working as a woman in the National Archives in the 1970s?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.436153055688843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I don't know. (laughs) Time out for photographs (9:02)"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the women's history conference which provided en tree to records relating to women in the National Archives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like working as a woman in the National Archives in the 1970s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that there was no differentiation between men and women in the sort of work they did and the kind of relations they had. I'm trying to remember one time when something went wrong and I was mad about it and I said to Bert Rhoads, \"Well if a man had had this problem you would have solved it differently.\" He flew up, I'd never seen him mad before, and he said \"Archives is absolutely not opposed to women working\". So it was a real good feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel any pressure to do better than the men?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.476732167517089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that there was no differentiation between men and women in the sort of work they did and the kind of relations they had. I'm trying to remember one time when something went wrong and I was mad about it and I said to Bert Rhoads, \"Well if a man had had this problem you would have solved it differently.\" He flew up, I'd never seen him mad before, and he said \"Archives is absolutely not opposed to women working\". So it was a real good feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel any pressure to do better than the men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laughs"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's move on the start of the Assembly. You and I were in the initial committee that put the Assembly together."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.0852579639078765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laughs"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's move on the start of the Assembly. You and I were in the initial committee that put the Assembly together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your personal reason for getting involved in this committee?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4280644043420843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laughs"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's move on the start of the Assembly. You and I were in the initial committee that put the Assembly together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your personal reason for getting involved in this committee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were still part of General Services Administration, and there was an administrator who came in to GSA who thought that he kept records of papers like paper towels and toilet paper and we kept paper records and they were all the same thing. And he was proposing to send the records out to different parts of the country. He was going to send the civil war records to Richmond, I guess. And it would have just completely torn up the Archives if he had done that. And there were several of us who were just so concerned about it that we got together at each other's houses and talked about what we could do. And then finally a committee of us went to see the GSA administrator. And I was so nervous about that that my hands were shaking. I've never seen my hands shaking before or since (laughs)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That administrator was Admiral Freeman."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8089604492689824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your personal reason for getting involved in this committee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were still part of General Services Administration, and there was an administrator who came in to GSA who thought that he kept records of papers like paper towels and toilet paper and we kept paper records and they were all the same thing. And he was proposing to send the records out to different parts of the country. He was going to send the civil war records to Richmond, I guess. And it would have just completely torn up the Archives if he had done that. And there were several of us who were just so concerned about it that we got together at each other's houses and talked about what we could do. And then finally a committee of us went to see the GSA administrator. And I was so nervous about that that my hands were shaking. I've never seen my hands shaking before or since (laughs)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That administrator was Admiral Freeman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of our conversation with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.232178276965536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were still part of General Services Administration, and there was an administrator who came in to GSA who thought that he kept records of papers like paper towels and toilet paper and we kept paper records and they were all the same thing. And he was proposing to send the records out to different parts of the country. He was going to send the civil war records to Richmond, I guess. And it would have just completely torn up the Archives if he had done that. And there were several of us who were just so concerned about it that we got together at each other's houses and talked about what we could do. And then finally a committee of us went to see the GSA administrator. And I was so nervous about that that my hands were shaking. I've never seen my hands shaking before or since (laughs)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That administrator was Admiral Freeman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of our conversation with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was very pleasant. And I think we made our point because, of course, he didn't tear up the Archives as we expected him to. He seemed like a very nice man who just didn't understand this part of his work. And we could understand that because we didn't think we ought to be part of GSA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The issue ofNational Archives independence. Was that a major part of the committee's work?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.702420307739485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of our conversation with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was very pleasant. And I think we made our point because, of course, he didn't tear up the Archives as we expected him to. He seemed like a very nice man who just didn't understand this part of his work. And we could understand that because we didn't think we ought to be part of GSA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The issue ofNational Archives independence. Was that a major part of the committee's work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Admiral Freeman understand that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.224911453043871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he was very pleasant. And I think we made our point because, of course, he didn't tear up the Archives as we expected him to. He seemed like a very nice man who just didn't understand this part of his work. And we could understand that because we didn't think we ought to be part of GSA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The issue ofNational Archives independence. Was that a major part of the committee's work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Admiral Freeman understand that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Who was the next Archivist in the 1970s?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim O'Neill was acting Archivist when we were putting the Assembly together."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.805457170048745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Admiral Freeman understand that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Who was the next Archivist in the 1970s?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim O'Neill was acting Archivist when we were putting the Assembly together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then Bob Warner ..."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.228285744498606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. Who was the next Archivist in the 1970s?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim O'Neill was acting Archivist when we were putting the Assembly together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then Bob Warner ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Warner was the one who said he took the job just to get us independent. And he went on up to Ames, Iowa, to his homestead after he had accomplished that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Committee that put the Assembly together was generally a group of young archivists."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.698095271665118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then Bob Warner ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Warner was the one who said he took the job just to get us independent. And he went on up to Ames, Iowa, to his homestead after he had accomplished that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Committee that put the Assembly together was generally a group of young archivists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when the Assembly actually got put together the question was who was going to become the first president. And unanimously we selected you."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.220105857405687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Warner was the one who said he took the job just to get us independent. And he went on up to Ames, Iowa, to his homestead after he had accomplished that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Committee that put the Assembly together was generally a group of young archivists."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when the Assembly actually got put together the question was who was going to become the first president. And unanimously we selected you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see that coming?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.800117619339652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when the Assembly actually got put together the question was who was going to become the first president. And unanimously we selected you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see that coming?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No! [laughs] I did not see it coming and I said, \"I can't do it. I've never been president of anything in my life and I don't want to start now.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did we convince you to take up the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.222352910377391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see that coming?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No! [laughs] I did not see it coming and I said, \"I can't do it. I've never been president of anything in my life and I don't want to start now.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did we convince you to take up the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was Ken Harris who said to me, Virginia, if you don't take the job it'll all fall apart because you are the only person around that nobody dislikes (laughs)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the President who started the tradition of the Assembly President talking with the Archivists once a quarter?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.691503233752656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No! [laughs] I did not see it coming and I said, \"I can't do it. I've never been president of anything in my life and I don't want to start now.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did we convince you to take up the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was Ken Harris who said to me, Virginia, if you don't take the job it'll all fall apart because you are the only person around that nobody dislikes (laughs)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the President who started the tradition of the Assembly President talking with the Archivists once a quarter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.212781370836285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was Ken Harris who said to me, Virginia, if you don't take the job it'll all fall apart because you are the only person around that nobody dislikes (laughs)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the President who started the tradition of the Assembly President talking with the Archivists once a quarter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't either three years later but that was because things were real hot on the independence issue."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7919793009292055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't either three years later but that was because things were real hot on the independence issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Warner told me, he didn't want to see me."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.435532556588006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't either three years later but that was because things were real hot on the independence issue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Warner told me, he didn't want to see me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought you had done that but I must be mistaken."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.150591729542229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Warner told me, he didn't want to see me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought you had done that but I must be mistaken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that year of the Presidency like for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.833990810602476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Laughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought you had done that but I must be mistaken."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that year of the Presidency like for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got so I liked the job. I remember holding a meeting in the Auditorium and the people who responded and came up and made remarks and all were just such great people. And I remember telling the Archivist's assistant, whose name I can't remember, that that gathering in the Auditorium represented the creme de la creme of our staff. And it was not just archivists it was lower ranking people as well and I just thought it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and I had a conversation at the time about the question of recruiting clerical and archives technician positions into the Assembly. You just mentioned that. How important was that to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1488786784471947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that year of the Presidency like for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got so I liked the job. I remember holding a meeting in the Auditorium and the people who responded and came up and made remarks and all were just such great people. And I remember telling the Archivist's assistant, whose name I can't remember, that that gathering in the Auditorium represented the creme de la creme of our staff. And it was not just archivists it was lower ranking people as well and I just thought it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and I had a conversation at the time about the question of recruiting clerical and archives technician positions into the Assembly. You just mentioned that. How important was that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm a democrat through and through, with a small \"d\", and I didn't like the idea of having a bunch of people lording it over anybody. I felt that the junior staff was just as concerned with the records as we were. And also I remember that Lillian Grandy was an archivist technician that worked for me in Educational programs on exhibits. She knew the records that she worked with, the diplomatic records, better than any archivist did. And I think my conversation with Lillian was what convinced me we had to have archives technicians in the organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow the activities of the Assembly after you left the Presidency?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4987540871635496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got so I liked the job. I remember holding a meeting in the Auditorium and the people who responded and came up and made remarks and all were just such great people. And I remember telling the Archivist's assistant, whose name I can't remember, that that gathering in the Auditorium represented the creme de la creme of our staff. And it was not just archivists it was lower ranking people as well and I just thought it was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and I had a conversation at the time about the question of recruiting clerical and archives technician positions into the Assembly. You just mentioned that. How important was that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm a democrat through and through, with a small \"d\", and I didn't like the idea of having a bunch of people lording it over anybody. I felt that the junior staff was just as concerned with the records as we were. And also I remember that Lillian Grandy was an archivist technician that worked for me in Educational programs on exhibits. She knew the records that she worked with, the diplomatic records, better than any archivist did. And I think my conversation with Lillian was what convinced me we had to have archives technicians in the organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow the activities of the Assembly after you left the Presidency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, I don't remember doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you the women's history specialist?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8875045412928326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm a democrat through and through, with a small \"d\", and I didn't like the idea of having a bunch of people lording it over anybody. I felt that the junior staff was just as concerned with the records as we were. And also I remember that Lillian Grandy was an archivist technician that worked for me in Educational programs on exhibits. She knew the records that she worked with, the diplomatic records, better than any archivist did. And I think my conversation with Lillian was what convinced me we had to have archives technicians in the organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow the activities of the Assembly after you left the Presidency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, I don't remember doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you the women's history specialist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One miserable year. Laughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Laughs. Then what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.319449490325369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so, I don't remember doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you the women's history specialist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One miserable year. Laughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Laughs. Then what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I was put in charge of archival publications which included describing records, editing guides, inventories and that sort of thing. That was much more my style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do? You edited guides and that sort of thing. Were you in head of the publications branch?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.799388322583743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One miserable year. Laughs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Laughs. Then what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I was put in charge of archival publications which included describing records, editing guides, inventories and that sort of thing. That was much more my style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do? You edited guides and that sort of thing. Were you in head of the publications branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had several people working who were working on inventories and people who were working on guides. And I supervised their work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was before computers?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.110431469537492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I was put in charge of archival publications which included describing records, editing guides, inventories and that sort of thing. That was much more my style."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you do? You edited guides and that sort of thing. Were you in head of the publications branch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had several people working who were working on inventories and people who were working on guides. And I supervised their work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was before computers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think. No! Because I had a terminal on my desk and several other people did too. That's something that I remember that's kind of funny. was asked, because I had had some contact with computers when I worked for the Smithsonian, to talk to the archivists about converting to automation and I said to them it was going to be wonderful, that we were going to have bar codes, to identify things by and all of this and one man, I don't know whether I should give his name or not, got up and left in the middle of all this and said, \"She's talking a lot of rot, it'll never happen\", and of course in six months we did have terminals on our desks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The editing process must have been much easier from typewriters to computers."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.456034966152769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had several people working who were working on inventories and people who were working on guides. And I supervised their work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was before computers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think. No! Because I had a terminal on my desk and several other people did too. That's something that I remember that's kind of funny. was asked, because I had had some contact with computers when I worked for the Smithsonian, to talk to the archivists about converting to automation and I said to them it was going to be wonderful, that we were going to have bar codes, to identify things by and all of this and one man, I don't know whether I should give his name or not, got up and left in the middle of all this and said, \"She's talking a lot of rot, it'll never happen\", and of course in six months we did have terminals on our desks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The editing process must have been much easier from typewriters to computers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I edited the manuscripts, they were printouts, but it didn't make much difference to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. What was your favorite guide that you edited?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8400388512808545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to think. No! Because I had a terminal on my desk and several other people did too. That's something that I remember that's kind of funny. was asked, because I had had some contact with computers when I worked for the Smithsonian, to talk to the archivists about converting to automation and I said to them it was going to be wonderful, that we were going to have bar codes, to identify things by and all of this and one man, I don't know whether I should give his name or not, got up and left in the middle of all this and said, \"She's talking a lot of rot, it'll never happen\", and of course in six months we did have terminals on our desks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The editing process must have been much easier from typewriters to computers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I edited the manuscripts, they were printouts, but it didn't make much difference to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. What was your favorite guide that you edited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] I guess the women's history guide. But I didn't finish editing it because I left before the guide was finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind ofchanges in your work did you see over time?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3951096929393265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] I guess the women's history guide. But I didn't finish editing it because I left before the guide was finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind ofchanges in your work did you see over time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear! That's a hard question. I'm not sure I saw any changes. I'm afraid I didn't, it varied with the Archivist. Bert Rhoads was Archivist when I came on. Because I worked in educational programs with a small staff, right under the Archivist, I got to know him real well and liked him and had great respect for him. Then after that, I had it in my mind a minute ago but my mind's gone ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Robert Warner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Robert Warner, yes. He was also a dedicated man. And a very capable guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any direct contact with him during the independence movement?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6612329921548072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh dear! That's a hard question. I'm not sure I saw any changes. I'm afraid I didn't, it varied with the Archivist. Bert Rhoads was Archivist when I came on. Because I worked in educational programs with a small staff, right under the Archivist, I got to know him real well and liked him and had great respect for him. Then after that, I had it in my mind a minute ago but my mind's gone ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Robert Warner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Robert Warner, yes. He was also a dedicated man. And a very capable guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any direct contact with him during the independence movement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a good deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.956925546838675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Robert Warner, yes. He was also a dedicated man. And a very capable guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any direct contact with him during the independence movement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a good deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he came to some of our meetings and was very much with us on that. And he was very glad that we were doing what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the celebration of independence?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.28547282982075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a good deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he came to some of our meetings and was very much with us on that. And he was very glad that we were doing what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the celebration of independence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Remember they had the whole staff out on the steps on Independence and they took a picture of us?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6505253664675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he came to some of our meetings and was very much with us on that. And he was very glad that we were doing what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the celebration of independence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Remember they had the whole staff out on the steps on Independence and they took a picture of us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh! Yes! Yes, and I was the last person in the top corner, on the left of that picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see any changes in the administrative work of the National Archives over the time that you were here?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.056139296075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Remember they had the whole staff out on the steps on Independence and they took a picture of us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh! Yes! Yes, and I was the last person in the top corner, on the left of that picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see any changes in the administrative work of the National Archives over the time that you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were fortunate that your supervisor seemed to allow you to work on your own."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.506821440083333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh! Yes! Yes, and I was the last person in the top corner, on the left of that picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see any changes in the administrative work of the National Archives over the time that you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were fortunate that your supervisor seemed to allow you to work on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were fortunate."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.007579377870369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were fortunate that your supervisor seemed to allow you to work on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were fortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I think that I allowed the people who worked for me to work on their own. I talked with them about what needed to be done and asked how it was going and then edited the results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim O'Neill was known as someone who supported young women and women in the Archives, did you ever have any contact with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2306437531892986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh absolutely. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were fortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I think that I allowed the people who worked for me to work on their own. I talked with them about what needed to be done and asked how it was going and then edited the results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim O'Neill was known as someone who supported young women and women in the Archives, did you ever have any contact with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I knew Jim. I remember when I got in trouble, when I was editor of the American Archivist, I got in trouble with the GSA and he came in and told me he that was sorry I had gotten in trouble, but because I was working for the Society of American Archivists which had come into problems with Jim's boss, he couldn't help me at all. So, he apologized and I could understand that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to be the editor of the American Archivist?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4784930590992205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I think that I allowed the people who worked for me to work on their own. I talked with them about what needed to be done and asked how it was going and then edited the results."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim O'Neill was known as someone who supported young women and women in the Archives, did you ever have any contact with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I knew Jim. I remember when I got in trouble, when I was editor of the American Archivist, I got in trouble with the GSA and he came in and told me he that was sorry I had gotten in trouble, but because I was working for the Society of American Archivists which had come into problems with Jim's boss, he couldn't help me at all. So, he apologized and I could understand that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to be the editor of the American Archivist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did a lot of editing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years did you work on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6427700656658004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I knew Jim. I remember when I got in trouble, when I was editor of the American Archivist, I got in trouble with the GSA and he came in and told me he that was sorry I had gotten in trouble, but because I was working for the Society of American Archivists which had come into problems with Jim's boss, he couldn't help me at all. So, he apologized and I could understand that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like to be the editor of the American Archivist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did a lot of editing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years did you work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a member ofthe Society?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8253000729620004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did a lot of editing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many years did you work on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a member ofthe Society?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you an active member?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0281111921800004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been a member ofthe Society?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you an active member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very active. I was on the council and was a fellow and of course went to all the meetings. I was very much interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have thought that that helped your own work at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2534568802000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you an active member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very active. I was on the council and was a fellow and of course went to all the meetings. I was very much interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have thought that that helped your own work at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, No! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just wanted to be part of a national organization."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5038409780000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very active. I was on the council and was a fellow and of course went to all the meetings. I was very much interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have thought that that helped your own work at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, No! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just wanted to be part of a national organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and the editor of the American Archivist had always been a staff member of the National Archives. So I was given a lot of freedom in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in your last years at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6709344200000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, No! [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just wanted to be part of a national organization."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and the editor of the American Archivist had always been a staff member of the National Archives. So I was given a lot of freedom in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in your last years at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was when I was supervising the creation of inventories and guides. Five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For five years. Was there any significant turning point in your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8565938000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes and the editor of the American Archivist had always been a staff member of the National Archives. So I was given a lot of freedom in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do in your last years at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was when I was supervising the creation of inventories and guides. Five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For five years. Was there any significant turning point in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [laughs] I just took what came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy your last years?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.062882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was when I was supervising the creation of inventories and guides. Five years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For five years. Was there any significant turning point in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [laughs] I just took what came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy your last years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! In fact the only reason I retired was that I had seen some other elderly archivists hanging on to their jobs and that kept younger men and women from moving up, because the older people had the top jobs. So I decided it was time for me to go and I went. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Archivist when you retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [laughs] I just took what came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy your last years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! In fact the only reason I retired was that I had seen some other elderly archivists hanging on to their jobs and that kept younger men and women from moving up, because the older people had the top jobs. So I decided it was time for me to go and I went. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Archivist when you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don Wilson. He had just come in and he sent me a lovely letter. And I'm not sure he would have known me if! had met him in the hall because he was that early in his job when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Assistant Archivist when you retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! In fact the only reason I retired was that I had seen some other elderly archivists hanging on to their jobs and that kept younger men and women from moving up, because the older people had the top jobs. So I decided it was time for me to go and I went. [laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Archivist when you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don Wilson. He had just come in and he sent me a lovely letter. And I'm not sure he would have known me if! had met him in the hall because he was that early in his job when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Assistant Archivist when you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Mr. Moore?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don Wilson. He had just come in and he sent me a lovely letter. And I'm not sure he would have known me if! had met him in the hall because he was that early in his job when I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the Assistant Archivist when you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Mr. Moore?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could've been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you offer to young people the idea working in the National Archives as a great way to pursue your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it Mr. Moore?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could've been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you offer to young people the idea working in the National Archives as a great way to pursue your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! Yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a chance to move somewhere else out of the National Archives while you were here?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Could've been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you offer to young people the idea working in the National Archives as a great way to pursue your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! Yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a chance to move somewhere else out of the National Archives while you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't seek it?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00018:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! Yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a chance to move somewhere else out of the National Archives while you were here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't seek it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your most memorable or defining experience? It could be ' Admiral Freeman. [laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.746988760695869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hello."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you prefer to be called Dick?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can call me Richard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Awesome. So, Richard, can you please share with your listeners a little bit about your background, your family life, and basically what you were doing before Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in western Massachusetts. My father was a pharmacist. He owned a drugstore in a small town called Stockbridge, Mass. I had one sister. And in college, which was the University of Massachusetts, I majored in government. And it was during that period of time that Kennedy announced the formation of the Peace Corps. And it interested me. And so I applied for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first time you heard of Peace Corps was through President Kennedy's speech?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.385543067439855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can call me Richard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Awesome. So, Richard, can you please share with your listeners a little bit about your background, your family life, and basically what you were doing before Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in western Massachusetts. My father was a pharmacist. He owned a drugstore in a small town called Stockbridge, Mass. I had one sister. And in college, which was the University of Massachusetts, I majored in government. And it was during that period of time that Kennedy announced the formation of the Peace Corps. And it interested me. And so I applied for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first time you heard of Peace Corps was through President Kennedy's speech?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And what was it about service that, that sparked your curiosity and interest into joining?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.98393674159984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in western Massachusetts. My father was a pharmacist. He owned a drugstore in a small town called Stockbridge, Mass. I had one sister. And in college, which was the University of Massachusetts, I majored in government. And it was during that period of time that Kennedy announced the formation of the Peace Corps. And it interested me. And so I applied for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first time you heard of Peace Corps was through President Kennedy's speech?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And what was it about service that, that sparked your curiosity and interest into joining?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a long time ago, uh, over half a century. But I think for a lot of us, idealistic liberal arts majors, if you will, the idea of being of service to our country and doing something of value for people in other countries was appealing. So that's why I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you already in your career during that time when you applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.165354001975112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a long time ago, uh, over half a century. But I think for a lot of us, idealistic liberal arts majors, if you will, the idea of being of service to our country and doing something of value for people in other countries was appealing. So that's why I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you already in your career during that time when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I graduated from college in 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and then I went right into, I applied during my senior year, and I went into training at Syracuse University in the summer of 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long after you? Well, first of all, the program that you ended up in, did you select adult, excuse me, elementary education as your program or was that assigned to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.739282224416792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I graduated from college in 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and then I went right into, I applied during my senior year, and I went into training at Syracuse University in the summer of 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long after you? Well, first of all, the program that you ended up in, did you select adult, excuse me, elementary education as your program or was that assigned to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, they reviewed our background and our capabilities. Um, I was never great at languages, so they selected me for a English speaking country. And a lot of us back then really didn't have a, any kind of trade of some sort that would enable us to go into farming or something like that. So. There was also a lot of need for teachers, so they put me in a teacher program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after your application did you receive your invitation to serve?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.37698024935199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and then I went right into, I applied during my senior year, and I went into training at Syracuse University in the summer of 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long after you? Well, first of all, the program that you ended up in, did you select adult, excuse me, elementary education as your program or was that assigned to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, they reviewed our background and our capabilities. Um, I was never great at languages, so they selected me for a English speaking country. And a lot of us back then really didn't have a, any kind of trade of some sort that would enable us to go into farming or something like that. So. There was also a lot of need for teachers, so they put me in a teacher program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after your application did you receive your invitation to serve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a hard question to answer. It's been so long. I can't remember exactly when I applied. It was sometime during my senior year, I'm sure, and it was probably months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you feel once you received it? Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.196644721502214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, they reviewed our background and our capabilities. Um, I was never great at languages, so they selected me for a English speaking country. And a lot of us back then really didn't have a, any kind of trade of some sort that would enable us to go into farming or something like that. So. There was also a lot of need for teachers, so they put me in a teacher program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after your application did you receive your invitation to serve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a hard question to answer. It's been so long. I can't remember exactly when I applied. It was sometime during my senior year, I'm sure, and it was probably months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you feel once you received it? Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I felt elated. I can't, I can only assume that that's how I felt. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family respond to your announcement that you were going overseas to serve?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.21849413500246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a hard question to answer. It's been so long. I can't remember exactly when I applied. It was sometime during my senior year, I'm sure, and it was probably months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you feel once you received it? Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I felt elated. I can't, I can only assume that that's how I felt. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family respond to your announcement that you were going overseas to serve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very positive. I didn't have any, you know, my, my dad and at that time my stepmother didn't show any, any kind of concern or, you know, problems with my, with my going over. So I was happy that they supported me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, before starting your official training in Syracuse, what did you personally do to prepare yourself for your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.464993483336066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure I felt elated. I can't, I can only assume that that's how I felt. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family respond to your announcement that you were going overseas to serve?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very positive. I didn't have any, you know, my, my dad and at that time my stepmother didn't show any, any kind of concern or, you know, problems with my, with my going over. So I was happy that they supported me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, before starting your official training in Syracuse, what did you personally do to prepare yourself for your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's, I don't, I don't frankly recall, to tell you the truth. It's been so long. I mean, I packed a suitcase and did whatever they told me to do. And, you know, if they sent me things to fill out, I filled them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Syracuse?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.623448744859342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's, I don't, I don't frankly recall, to tell you the truth. It's been so long. I mean, I packed a suitcase and did whatever they told me to do. And, you know, if they sent me things to fill out, I filled them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get to Syracuse?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I probably drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it wasn't that long. It was probably a four, 4 or 5 hour trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how long were you in Syracuse before you had to go to Liberia, would you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.137165272065936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I probably drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it wasn't that long. It was probably a four, 4 or 5 hour trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how long were you in Syracuse before you had to go to Liberia, would you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly how long the training was. Maybe six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was during the summer of '63. So 6 or 8 weeks, whatever they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.819072524517704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it wasn't that long. It was probably a four, 4 or 5 hour trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how long were you in Syracuse before you had to go to Liberia, would you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly how long the training was. Maybe six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was during the summer of '63. So 6 or 8 weeks, whatever they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a piece that, uh, that spoke to us about health. They certainly wanted us to be healthy over there. So we learned about the various concerns that they had and what to do with that. Malaria, of course, was a, you know, endemic in Liberia. So they talked about that, dysentery and so forth. They wanted us to be physically fit. So there were various kinds of physical education, physical kinds of things we had to do. And the other thing, the other piece would have been preparing us to, as teachers. They really didn't know too much of what we would be facing, but they gave us some general educational principles to be following. So I would say, looking back over half a century, those were the, the three areas that they focused on primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you took a flight after training to head over to Liberia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.798969471686338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember exactly how long the training was. Maybe six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was during the summer of '63. So 6 or 8 weeks, whatever they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a piece that, uh, that spoke to us about health. They certainly wanted us to be healthy over there. So we learned about the various concerns that they had and what to do with that. Malaria, of course, was a, you know, endemic in Liberia. So they talked about that, dysentery and so forth. They wanted us to be physically fit. So there were various kinds of physical education, physical kinds of things we had to do. And the other thing, the other piece would have been preparing us to, as teachers. They really didn't know too much of what we would be facing, but they gave us some general educational principles to be following. So I would say, looking back over half a century, those were the, the three areas that they focused on primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you took a flight after training to head over to Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 163 of us, I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Huge group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 31.998854968540375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a piece that, uh, that spoke to us about health. They certainly wanted us to be healthy over there. So we learned about the various concerns that they had and what to do with that. Malaria, of course, was a, you know, endemic in Liberia. So they talked about that, dysentery and so forth. They wanted us to be physically fit. So there were various kinds of physical education, physical kinds of things we had to do. And the other thing, the other piece would have been preparing us to, as teachers. They really didn't know too much of what we would be facing, but they gave us some general educational principles to be following. So I would say, looking back over half a century, those were the, the three areas that they focused on primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you took a flight after training to head over to Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 163 of us, I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Huge group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The third, the third group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The third group for Liberia. And what did, what was it like when you finally arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.33206107615597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 163 of us, I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Huge group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The third, the third group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The third group for Liberia. And what did, what was it like when you finally arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it's, uh, we arrived at Robertsfield. Now, Liberia has a big Firestone rubber plantation. And Robertsfield was built to service that rubber plantation. It was about, I would say, 50 miles from Monrovia, the capital, where we, where we would be going for in-country training. And it was the middle of the monsoon season. The September month is probably the rainiest month in Liberia. So what struck us most was the, the smell of mildew and just moisture everywhere. And, uh, that particular month, they normally get about 15 inches of rain. So every day it was cloudy and every day it rained and, and mold and mildew was everywhere. And that was, that was probably the one thing that I can remember about that, that particular time. And it was, it was something. So we had, we had about, I don't know, 4 or 5 days of orientation, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that orientation, the 4 to 5 days in Monrovia, did you immediately go to your village where you would be serving for the next two years from there? Or were you hosted by a family in Monrovia to help you acclimate to the life and language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.924512306839965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The third, the third group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The third group for Liberia. And what did, what was it like when you finally arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it's, uh, we arrived at Robertsfield. Now, Liberia has a big Firestone rubber plantation. And Robertsfield was built to service that rubber plantation. It was about, I would say, 50 miles from Monrovia, the capital, where we, where we would be going for in-country training. And it was the middle of the monsoon season. The September month is probably the rainiest month in Liberia. So what struck us most was the, the smell of mildew and just moisture everywhere. And, uh, that particular month, they normally get about 15 inches of rain. So every day it was cloudy and every day it rained and, and mold and mildew was everywhere. And that was, that was probably the one thing that I can remember about that, that particular time. And it was, it was something. So we had, we had about, I don't know, 4 or 5 days of orientation, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that orientation, the 4 to 5 days in Monrovia, did you immediately go to your village where you would be serving for the next two years from there? Or were you hosted by a family in Monrovia to help you acclimate to the life and language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we, uh, they put us up in a, in an apartment building. And there was no hosting or anything of that nature. And after various meetings and so forth, we were sent to, to our post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the name of your village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.693902563155515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it's, uh, we arrived at Robertsfield. Now, Liberia has a big Firestone rubber plantation. And Robertsfield was built to service that rubber plantation. It was about, I would say, 50 miles from Monrovia, the capital, where we, where we would be going for in-country training. And it was the middle of the monsoon season. The September month is probably the rainiest month in Liberia. So what struck us most was the, the smell of mildew and just moisture everywhere. And, uh, that particular month, they normally get about 15 inches of rain. So every day it was cloudy and every day it rained and, and mold and mildew was everywhere. And that was, that was probably the one thing that I can remember about that, that particular time. And it was, it was something. So we had, we had about, I don't know, 4 or 5 days of orientation, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that orientation, the 4 to 5 days in Monrovia, did you immediately go to your village where you would be serving for the next two years from there? Or were you hosted by a family in Monrovia to help you acclimate to the life and language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we, uh, they put us up in a, in an apartment building. And there was no hosting or anything of that nature. And after various meetings and so forth, we were sent to, to our post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the name of your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ganta, Liberia. It was more of a town, actually. It was on the Guinea border. It was a crossroads and fairly bustling, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can you spell that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.65989173683946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we, uh, they put us up in a, in an apartment building. And there was no hosting or anything of that nature. And after various meetings and so forth, we were sent to, to our post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the name of your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ganta, Liberia. It was more of a town, actually. It was on the Guinea border. It was a crossroads and fairly bustling, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "G-A-N-T-A. It was about, um, I would say, 150 miles from the, from the capital, Monrovia. And, uh. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe this small city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.51099081871051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ganta, Liberia. It was more of a town, actually. It was on the Guinea border. It was a crossroads and fairly bustling, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So can you spell that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "G-A-N-T-A. It was about, um, I would say, 150 miles from the, from the capital, Monrovia. And, uh. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe this small city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would, actually I wouldn't say it was a city. It was a large town, more of a large town. It had a lot of Lebanese stores. Lebanese were the primary merchants throughout Liberia, as a matter of fact. It had one Mobil gas station. It, um, it was a crossroads, as I say, there was another main road that went down to another part of Liberia. And, um, like I said, it was on, right, right there. There was a border right, right there. I went by the border, the Guinea border, every day. There was a Methodist mission there. There was a hospital on the mission grounds. There was a leper colony. And there was a school. So, uh. And then there were various Liberian, a lot of thatched roof huts, and a lot of zinc roofed houses, one of which I lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the zinc, uh, zinc roofed house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.678878687456123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "G-A-N-T-A. It was about, um, I would say, 150 miles from the, from the capital, Monrovia. And, uh. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe this small city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would, actually I wouldn't say it was a city. It was a large town, more of a large town. It had a lot of Lebanese stores. Lebanese were the primary merchants throughout Liberia, as a matter of fact. It had one Mobil gas station. It, um, it was a crossroads, as I say, there was another main road that went down to another part of Liberia. And, um, like I said, it was on, right, right there. There was a border right, right there. I went by the border, the Guinea border, every day. There was a Methodist mission there. There was a hospital on the mission grounds. There was a leper colony. And there was a school. So, uh. And then there were various Liberian, a lot of thatched roof huts, and a lot of zinc roofed houses, one of which I lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the zinc, uh, zinc roofed house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, uh, it's made out of mud brick that has a kind of a cement plaster, so it's a white plaster, plastered over with and painted white, with a roof made out of zinc. And typically square and, uh. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your community receive you upon your arrival?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.48543029829372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very positive. Very positive. Um. I had a housemate. There were two other women. Actually, there were four, four Peace Corps women there. Two were on the, uh, on the mission. And they were, so they were, they had assigned four of us to the school. So. But we were received very well. But we did have to, we did replace some, some teachers, some Liberian teachers. We came in the middle of the school year. The school year started in March and ended, March till December. So we got there in the middle of the, middle of the year, so they had to do some moving around. And I don't frankly know what happened to the teachers. They had to move. But some were moved in order to make, make room for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were those four other volunteers, excuse me, three other volunteers, were they part of your training group or were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All part of our training group, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except for the two. Well, I will say this. There was a group, Group II people were on the mission. The Group III, my group, there were four of us, the two women and my housemate and myself. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the living like in Ganta for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 38.317144775881914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All part of our training group, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except for the two. Well, I will say this. There was a group, Group II people were on the mission. The Group III, my group, there were four of us, the two women and my housemate and myself. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the living like in Ganta for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, uh. We had a very large house which easily accommodated my housemate, but we were also kind of a storage depot and we sort of had a part time roommate. That is to say, the Peace Corps leader, if you will. The one that actually a nice, nice way of saying truck driver, but he had a very important thing. He had, he was the one that brought supplies. He brought mail. And since we were centrally located, he would oftentimes when he was there, before going on to the next town, which was far away, he would stay overnight. So there was a bed for him and there was a room for all the stuff that he was bringing. Sometimes there was a truck that came in and we would unload the truck and put it. These trucks would have things, for example, books, this nature, supplies for the various, various posts.\n\nSo, um. It was, it was. There was no electricity, but we did have a kerosene stove. We had a kerosene refrigerator. So that was nice. At the time, we actually had a shower, which was, um, didn't last very long, but it was gravity feed and there was this big barrel and that took in rainwater. And then it worked until the dry season. And then, of course, more rain. And then there was a latrine. So that was. And then as far as furniture, you know, we, I think there was a table and a few chairs and beds and that was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did your training prepare you to be an elementary school teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 20.620930403905227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And going back to something you mentioned earlier about some of the difficulties you had in the, in teaching. How did you find, uh, did you see any concerns with literacy levels and how did you overcome that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I mean, that's a big problem and I'm not sure I did overcome it. I mean, you know, you just, you just go in and do the best you can. Um, I mean, there was adult literacy program that, um, I didn't. I was not really prepared to be able to teach adults, but I did for, for a time drive the car for a Methodist missionary. We drove down to another town, and she taught adults literacy. So I sort of helped out there. But the, the students I had, they were fourth. So they had, they had some knowledge, they, you know, of reading and writing when I got them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And earlier, you also mentioned something about their language being, um, I think you called it the Mano tribe. Can you explain what that means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the name of the tribe was Mano, there are I think about 28 tribes in Liberia, okay? And I'm assuming that that particular language, I'm making the assumption that the particular language did not, did not have ending consonants. Okay. Because when I'd hear them talk, when I heard them talk, I didn't hear any, any in the. In the English, they just dropped all consonants in English. So, uh, no. I can't say anything more than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I would like for you to please explain some of the incredible experiences you had in your town. Basically, things that were maybe shocking, or the most happiest you've been while there, or even those that were the saddest. Can you describe some of those experiences, if you had any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.370569126513072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I got back, I went, I went to graduate school and got a degree in education, okay? And then I went and I taught for a year in Westport, Connecticut. Westport, Connecticut is a wealthy town. Um, just a lot of very, a lot of rich people there. And I taught in a junior high. And I couldn't take the kids. They were snotty little rich kids. So I came to Washington and I applied, I applied for a job in the public schools in D.C. And I was among, you know, in a, in an all Black school, almost 95 percent Black school. And I felt much more comfortable. Okay. So I think that's probably impacted my life that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you always know you wanted to go into education before Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my mother had been an elementary school teacher. My aunt was a music teacher and her husband, my uncle, was assistant principal. My grandfather was a superintendent. There was a lot of education in the family. So it was just sort of like that's what I did. That's how I got involved, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did, what did you do while you were in service and even after your service ended to, to display or to continue working those three Peace Corps goals? The first, of course, being that we want to make sure Americans are, are more fully aware and less ignorant about cultures they're unfamiliar with. How did, how did you meet that goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's not like I've joined any particular organization. But I think it comes out in conversations over the course of time. You bring it up and you talk about it. You talk about your experiences and sort of educate people that way. So I've had opportunities over the years to do that certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the next goal. How did you help Liberians to better understand America, Americans, and American values?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.300632362792301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my mother had been an elementary school teacher. My aunt was a music teacher and her husband, my uncle, was assistant principal. My grandfather was a superintendent. There was a lot of education in the family. So it was just sort of like that's what I did. That's how I got involved, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did, what did you do while you were in service and even after your service ended to, to display or to continue working those three Peace Corps goals? The first, of course, being that we want to make sure Americans are, are more fully aware and less ignorant about cultures they're unfamiliar with. How did, how did you meet that goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's not like I've joined any particular organization. But I think it comes out in conversations over the course of time. You bring it up and you talk about it. You talk about your experiences and sort of educate people that way. So I've had opportunities over the years to do that certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the next goal. How did you help Liberians to better understand America, Americans, and American values?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that, that Liberians, and I don't want to speak for us in general, saw as, saw as, us as genuine people that were not out to cheat them or what have you. I mean, there was a fair amount of corruption, I have to say. And the term they used was eating the money. Eating, you know, we ate the money. Okay. You, he ran off with it. And I think that that's one of the things we did. And I'm not saying that I necessarily did it, but I think that, in general, the Peace Corps was uncorruptible. In other words, we're not out there to cheat anybody. That wasn't what we were there for. And I think that's, that's something that they saw as an American value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know if Peace Corps is still in Liberia today?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.222924847547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's not like I've joined any particular organization. But I think it comes out in conversations over the course of time. You bring it up and you talk about it. You talk about your experiences and sort of educate people that way. So I've had opportunities over the years to do that certainly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the next goal. How did you help Liberians to better understand America, Americans, and American values?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that, that Liberians, and I don't want to speak for us in general, saw as, saw as, us as genuine people that were not out to cheat them or what have you. I mean, there was a fair amount of corruption, I have to say. And the term they used was eating the money. Eating, you know, we ate the money. Okay. You, he ran off with it. And I think that that's one of the things we did. And I'm not saying that I necessarily did it, but I think that, in general, the Peace Corps was uncorruptible. In other words, we're not out there to cheat anybody. That wasn't what we were there for. And I think that's, that's something that they saw as an American value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know if Peace Corps is still in Liberia today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they are. Now they had a period of time when, you know, they had a revolution in 1980. People were executed. So I don't know to what extent you know about, you know, that. But anyway, yeah. They've gone through a lot and they're coming back. But, um. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back on your service, would, would you describe to your listeners what you believe were your major accomplishments? If you had any regrets, as well, if you could share those? Successes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.698864270000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A bunch of us chartered a big airplane. We went over to East Africa for a vacation, and, uh, that was an experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Kenya, Nairobi. And the difference was, was remarkable. First of all, the climate was totally different. And, you know, the game parks and so forth were there. And I even went up to Ethiopia and had a chance to do some touring up there. We spent three weeks, so that was, that was nice. That was nice.\n\nAnd also, let's see, what else did I do? I helped, we helped to build, I helped to build on one of my vacations another school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not far from Monrovia. Mostly it was just digging. Shoveling dirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know if any of the schools you helped build?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2209603000000016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Kenya, Nairobi. And the difference was, was remarkable. First of all, the climate was totally different. And, you know, the game parks and so forth were there. And I even went up to Ethiopia and had a chance to do some touring up there. We spent three weeks, so that was, that was nice. That was nice.\n\nAnd also, let's see, what else did I do? I helped, we helped to build, I helped to build on one of my vacations another school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not far from Monrovia. Mostly it was just digging. Shoveling dirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know if any of the schools you helped build?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just one. Is it still standing today?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8010670000000015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not far from Monrovia. Mostly it was just digging. Shoveling dirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you know if any of the schools you helped build?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just one. Is it still standing today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going to assume so, but I've learned not to, I've learned that this time of my life, I, um, about half of my assumptions that I make are true, come true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than the malaria scare and the amoebas that you had to deal with, were there any other scary things that just shocked you? Did you ever have a moment of, I think I want to go home, basically?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.050700000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going to assume so, but I've learned not to, I've learned that this time of my life, I, um, about half of my assumptions that I make are true, come true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So other than the malaria scare and the amoebas that you had to deal with, were there any other scary things that just shocked you? Did you ever have a moment of, I think I want to go home, basically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I felt that the way of, of dealing with it. You know, toward the end, you know, I have, I have been in preparing for this interview, I went through all the letters. I have about 30 letters that I wrote that were given back to me so I could read them over again. Toward the end, you know, I was, my letters home were, what's next, you know? Graduate school and maybe going through Europe and so forth. Um. But, um, what was the question again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was basically, um. Well, I just went blank as well. Sorry about that. But the question. It will come back to me. It will come back to me. Uh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.723000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I felt that the way of, of dealing with it. You know, toward the end, you know, I have, I have been in preparing for this interview, I went through all the letters. I have about 30 letters that I wrote that were given back to me so I could read them over again. Toward the end, you know, I was, my letters home were, what's next, you know? Graduate school and maybe going through Europe and so forth. Um. But, um, what was the question again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was basically, um. Well, I just went blank as well. Sorry about that. But the question. It will come back to me. It will come back to me. Uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Give me another question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it escaped me. Yes, it escaped me, but, um. But. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. You were referring to the, to the school and not making assumptions as to whether or not it's still standing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.470000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I felt that the way of, of dealing with it. You know, toward the end, you know, I have, I have been in preparing for this interview, I went through all the letters. I have about 30 letters that I wrote that were given back to me so I could read them over again. Toward the end, you know, I was, my letters home were, what's next, you know? Graduate school and maybe going through Europe and so forth. Um. But, um, what was the question again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was basically, um. Well, I just went blank as well. Sorry about that. But the question. It will come back to me. It will come back to me. Uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Give me another question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it escaped me. Yes, it escaped me, but, um. But. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. You were referring to the, to the school and not making assumptions as to whether or not it's still standing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. But, um, we can move on to the next question since we both clearly lost our train of thought."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00164:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.3, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Give me another question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it escaped me. Yes, it escaped me, but, um. But. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. You were referring to the, to the school and not making assumptions as to whether or not it's still standing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. But, um, we can move on to the next question since we both clearly lost our train of thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, other people, and, and, um. Other volunteers. There were some that left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the question. Did you ever feel at any point you wanted to go home? Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00666:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 15.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they just told me what they were doing. If you hire good people and you delegate jobs to them, then unless they come and say, “I need help,” it’s best not to micromanage how they do their job. Doc repeatedly informed me that RocketplaneKistler wasn’t making milestones and that if they kept going in that fashion, he was going to have to terminate them. My response was “Okay, then terminate them and take the money. We’ll use it to do another competition and we’ll select another company.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you very much. That was all for my side of things.\n\nWe don’t want to take up all your morning. Do you have any more thoughts that you want to offer at this point, or any other recollections of that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I’m just trying to respond to your questions. If you’ve got more, I’ll answer them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think part of what we wanted to definitely get in your words was your thoughts of when you started this effort."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I walked into the Agency with this as one of my goals. As you said, I wrote them down. I presented them in my confirmation hearing on the 12th of April [2005]. I announced what my goals were in my confirmation hearing. I would have been foolish to announce goals that I had not previously cleared with the Bush administration. That would be silly.\\n\\n I worked for the President; I would not be allowed to have goals of which the President didn’t approve, so I had vetted these statements first with the executive office of the President, meaning OSTP [Office of Science and Technology Policy] and OMB [Office of Management and Budget] and the National Security Council. I had pre-vetted the half-dozen goals that I had with the administration. They were fine with them, and so I announced them at my confirmation hearing. When I got to the Agency, I set to work on those goals. Not just COTS, all the others as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was almost as if this was under the radar at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00030:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 72.2479840401853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Turned out well. Turned out very well. I wouldn't change a minute of it, not a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were big decisions at the time, and difficult ones. Strangely enough, Bob [Robert C.] Seamans [Jr.], who was the deputy administrator of NASA, with Jim Webb, Bob became Secretary of the Air Force later. I was in Washington [DC] as the Director of Life Sciences for NASA, and he was the Secretary of the Air Force. We talked all the time. If I'd had had any sense then, if I'd had time to think about what was going on at that time, I would have worked out some deal with them to where I would have gotten credit for NASA time some way from a reserve standpoint, and I'm sure we could have worked that out. I've talked with—in fact, I just had a meeting up in Boston [Massachusetts] a few months ago and was talking to Bob Seamans. He said, \"You know, that was really crazy. We should have done something about that.\" I said, \"Yeah, we probably should have.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hindsight's always 20-20."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But hindsight is great, yes. It didn't, and it doesn't matter really now. It would have made a difference money-wise, retirement-wise, and a lot of things like that, but that's gone, so there's no point in talking about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back, I know it's been covered in some detail, the selection process of the original astronauts, but if you could share with us some of your thoughts at the time about what you were selecting these men to do and how you could even test them, since nobody had done it before."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00030:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 41, "return_to_go": 90.0904522696787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The crew has done as well or better, and survived in spite of the hardware. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was an interesting discussion. I like to say that from an engineering point of view, they really did have the capability to do that, and they were able to get a .999. I think that's wonderful, but that's an expensive thing to do for a program, but it's an important thing to do.\\n\\n When we were doing medical experiments, we had difficulties, too, because they wanted everything that we had aboard the spacecraft, wanted space-qualified. Now, if every piece of hardware that you put on there, sure, you can't just take a stethoscope, if you really lived by that rule, and that makes things—the minute you say something's going to be space-qualified, then a lot of money is going to go to a lot of contractors to say, yes, this piece is space-qualified to go on there. So that makes the experiments really expensive. So there had been a big move, and I think a lot of things now are done that aren't \"space-qualified,\" and I think that's very sensible to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got to have that balance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly. Price yourself out of business is what you do. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked a couple of times now, you've mentioned Deke Slayton, and you started to talk earlier about how you and he snuck in through the back way when he did start having his difficulty in Mercury. As you tried to help him through that, of course we know the outcome and that he, unfortunately, did have to be grounded for a while, then eventually did get to fly. But as you helped him through that, how was that for you, working with him and trying to work the situation out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00030:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 54.550605530000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Absolutely. And he didn't fibrillate anymore, either, and we still don't know why. I still do not know why. It's idiopathic, which just means we don't know why, we don't know the cause. We could not find any cause. All the common causes of fibrillation we had chased down a long time before. He didn't have any thyroid disease. It wasn't from smoking. It wasn't from alcohol. It wasn't from any of the things that you could possibly find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shows how complex the human body is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The human body is a very complex mechanism, it really is. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Al Shepard a couple of times as we were talking about Deke Slayton, how it was a similar situation but was a shorter time span, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any future comments you wanted to make about him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00834:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 28.717501317390003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, “back to the future” thing. Certainly depending on who you ask it was something good or it wasn’t something good. I won’t express a view there, because I’m still somewhat associated with the Agency. But I think that I’ll just say that there are a variety of views on the efficacy of a National Space Council."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was interesting, too, this past April the Senator [R. E. “Ted” Cruz] from our state brought up the possibility of looking at the 50-year-old [Outer] Space Treaty to bring it up to date. When looking at the policy that you had worked on for the National Space Policy in 2010 under President Obama, one of the principles states: “It’s established in international law there shall be no national claims of sovereignty over outer space and any celestial bodies.” When I was reading about what Senator Cruz was bringing up, people were speculating that—and it’s all speculation at this point, I guess—but there are groups that want to have sovereignty over celestial bodies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sovereignty or property rights."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, property rights so that they can mine and get the resources from it. I just thought it was interesting that that’s specifically in the Space Policy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you take a look at the preceding space policies, you’ll see that in there as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s almost like that wording would have to be changed quite a bit, if they really do go back and redo that treaty that’s been in place for 50 years to keep the peaceful uses of outer space."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00834:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe Robert, who knows?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never know. I thought maybe I would close out by asking you—and you don’t have to give a long involved answer, obviously, because we don’t have a lot of time—but throughout your career with NASA, what was your most challenging time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy. That is a really hard question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If that one is a little difficult, maybe turn it and say what are you most proud of? It may be the same thing, sometimes it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the Export Control Program and its success is something I’m very proud of. While I was not the first leader of it, it only came into existence when I came to NASA. Bob [Robert] Tucker and I made it happen, and it grew to be—when I say grew, it doesn’t mean expanded people as much as it expanded its influence and the ability to keep us out of trouble and to be good stewards of the nation’s advanced technologies.\\n\\n It’s well respected by the interagency community, by the regulatory community. The Departments of State and Commerce and Defense recognize and applaud our success in the Export Control Program. I’m certainly proud of that.\\n\\n I think probably some of the Space Policy work. There were a number of legal things that I thought were good achievements, contributions to the International Space Station Intergovernmental Agreement that we had talked about the last time and certain things like that. The duty-free entry regulation that we talked about the last time, that’s a huge victory actually. I should probably list that as number one because ain’t nobody else got that. It took a lot of work, but it has paid off for sure.\\n\\n I’m trying to think what was most difficult. Most difficult day was leaving. There were lots and lots of difficult days, I’m not saying that there weren’t, but the hardest day was the day I walked out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine if you love your job and you love the people you’re working with and have a respect for them, it is difficult to walk away."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.71872155561752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started in 1987 but all of those conversations took place in 1986."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then what was your impression of the National Archives when you came here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had an interview with Trudy Peterson [then head of the Office of the National Archives], and Bill Cunliffe [then director of the Special Archives Division], in Trudy’s office which had a nice big Wang computer [terminal]. They sold me on being part of the rebuilding of the machine- readable branch. When I arrived and was assigned to my office on the 21st floor, or 21st stack level, I had a wooden desk that didn’t have any drawers and I was given an old upright typewriter as my personal piece of equipment. I was coming from Kentucky, right? So [think of] all of your stereotypes, but I had had my own PC for several years. There was an IBM plant in Kentucky, and they made sure the university was well supplied. And to be given a manual typewriter as my personal piece of equipment to help rebuild the machine-readable records program was quite a shock. And what I got introduced to was how under-resourced the National Archives really was. And that comes out in the articles of some of my colleagues in the 30 years book: how under-resourced NARA was. And so that was a major shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what was your first order of business then if you’re sitting there with a typewriter trying to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I wrote a memo. [Laughing]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your memo say?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 37.46524617290835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had an interview with Trudy Peterson [then head of the Office of the National Archives], and Bill Cunliffe [then director of the Special Archives Division], in Trudy’s office which had a nice big Wang computer [terminal]. They sold me on being part of the rebuilding of the machine- readable branch. When I arrived and was assigned to my office on the 21st floor, or 21st stack level, I had a wooden desk that didn’t have any drawers and I was given an old upright typewriter as my personal piece of equipment. I was coming from Kentucky, right? So [think of] all of your stereotypes, but I had had my own PC for several years. There was an IBM plant in Kentucky, and they made sure the university was well supplied. And to be given a manual typewriter as my personal piece of equipment to help rebuild the machine-readable records program was quite a shock. And what I got introduced to was how under-resourced the National Archives really was. And that comes out in the articles of some of my colleagues in the 30 years book: how under-resourced NARA was. And so that was a major shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what was your first order of business then if you’re sitting there with a typewriter trying to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I wrote a memo. [Laughing]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your memo say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something to the effect that I don’t believe this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give me a computer [laughing]."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 36.072495747675944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I wrote a memo. [Laughing]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your memo say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something to the effect that I don’t believe this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give me a computer [laughing]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe that I'm expected to help rebuild the machine-readable records program and have as my personal equipment a manual typewriter. There was a dial up computer [terminal]. It was a DECwriter, which accessed the [mainframe] computer at the NIH which the staff commonly used. [The NIH computer center was then a data center for several federal agencies.] Then there was also a Wang system [terminal], like I had seen in Trudy’s office. I therefore had been blindsided to the fact that this [equipment was only] in a few offices including in the machine-readable records branch. There was one [NCR terminal] and it was only used there, well, it was primarily used there, for accounting purposes for the Trust Fund’s system for handling reproductions of records and the cost recovery for that. So effectively the staff did not have equipment and the staff at that point, as part of the rebuilding, was being trained in using this DECwriter to communicate with the NIH computer and was learning to do some forms of programming that were then sort of the default processes at the NIH Computing Center, which [the branch] was using for our data services. [All of this was reminiscent of my 1960s experiences at DPLS, but this was 1987, at the U.S. National Archives.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who were your colleagues when you first started at the machine-readable branch?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.288246009765793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be a veteran calling and saying I need—among other things—I need to document that I was exposed to a stressing event and the buddies that I served with died. Can I have their casualty records? So, we would be working with them to try and pinpoint sufficient information to try and get down—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] And you would actually go find—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn’t access the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] They couldn’t directly access. We had full printouts of those records and one practice that the Department of Defense had started even before they transferred the records to the National Archives, was to create state lists of casualties which are extracts from the whole database which organized casualties by their state of home of record. Those were very much in demand for memorializing purposes. In addition to the individual veterans who were seeking records of buddies in order to document their post-traumatic or their stressing event, you had all of the people trying to memorialize. And that was also during the period where there was a lot of emphasis on the people who were at that point still considered to be missing or prisoners, well, not prisoners of war but missing in action—which really were the people whose bodies had never been recovered."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about as time progressed and your career with the archives, the kinds of things you were involved in and how your career changed?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.29522262826769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, there’s just no staff to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And about how big was the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I started out, I was doing that work and there was, I said Mario Lopez-Gomez who was handling all of the reproductions of records and all the sort of building the databases and helped us increase the Title List and so forth. And then we had a technician and then we hired another technician not too long later. And then gradually a professional. But it never was more than three or four people. And even now [2018] the reference staff, electronic records, is only, I would say five or six people. But a lot more material is available online now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like with anything technological, you evolve and you provide new services and those new services generate demand for even more services. So, but still very understaffed. And it was an era when machine-readable records, or electronic records as they became, as their next identity, for all intents and purposes still meant digital data. The whole business of all of the office automation records and email, and all the rest of that didn’t come until later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, I was going to ask, how did the advent of the Internet change your work processes or was it something that came like much later? Because agencies weren’t transferring their emails until—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.364472380577396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But like with anything technological, you evolve and you provide new services and those new services generate demand for even more services. So, but still very understaffed. And it was an era when machine-readable records, or electronic records as they became, as their next identity, for all intents and purposes still meant digital data. The whole business of all of the office automation records and email, and all the rest of that didn’t come until later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, I was going to ask, how did the advent of the Internet change your work processes or was it something that came like much later? Because agencies weren’t transferring their emails until—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I don’t understand that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I am removed from the program for the last five years, [so my comments don't reflect recent developments]. But the focus on email of course came with the White House email. I would say it was a slower evolution, when it, I mean, we had BitNet before we had the Internet and BitNet was just in universities and government agencies. But that provided a mechanism for people to get information and having FTP, file transfer protocol, meant that people could download like the Title List and so forth. So, at each stage, technology enhanced the services that could be provided, and we tried to keep up as much as we could, or that resources, etc. [allowed]. But we had a presence on the \"web\" in a sense before the push of the Internet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In like the early 90s?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.29385820064155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I don’t understand that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I am removed from the program for the last five years, [so my comments don't reflect recent developments]. But the focus on email of course came with the White House email. I would say it was a slower evolution, when it, I mean, we had BitNet before we had the Internet and BitNet was just in universities and government agencies. But that provided a mechanism for people to get information and having FTP, file transfer protocol, meant that people could download like the Title List and so forth. So, at each stage, technology enhanced the services that could be provided, and we tried to keep up as much as we could, or that resources, etc. [allowed]. But we had a presence on the \"web\" in a sense before the push of the Internet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In like the early 90s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm-hm, mm-hm. Right. And unfortunately, [beginning in 1993], the PROFS case ate up most of NARA’s resources for electronic records, handling the demands of that litigation. So, although the branch, by then it was the Center for Electronic Records, had developed a computerized capability to validate the data files that agencies were transferring, which created metadata which, the intent from the very beginning was that that metadata could be used to make records available and assist researchers. Because of the PROFS case, all development on that ceased until the PROFS case was basically done with and so we had a long period — and that’s covered in the 30 years book. We were doing what we could to continue, I mean, the reference program was pretty isolated from the PROFS case—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Okay, I was wondering if you were involved at all."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.881306420545126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm-hm, mm-hm. Right. And unfortunately, [beginning in 1993], the PROFS case ate up most of NARA’s resources for electronic records, handling the demands of that litigation. So, although the branch, by then it was the Center for Electronic Records, had developed a computerized capability to validate the data files that agencies were transferring, which created metadata which, the intent from the very beginning was that that metadata could be used to make records available and assist researchers. Because of the PROFS case, all development on that ceased until the PROFS case was basically done with and so we had a long period — and that’s covered in the 30 years book. We were doing what we could to continue, I mean, the reference program was pretty isolated from the PROFS case—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Okay, I was wondering if you were involved at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not directly, no. And Ken Thibodeau, [the Center director], was very prescient in doing that so that the [archival electronic records] program could at least still survive. I mean it was certainly being taxed very heavily to have so much of its resources handling that case. But what we could do didn't involve a sort of building on what had gone before with the intention of it affecting reference and access until the late 1990s, which is when NARA was finally in a position to let the contract that led to the development of the Access to Archival Databases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AAD."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is still up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the development of the AAD and your role in that."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.97922935616125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not directly, no. And Ken Thibodeau, [the Center director], was very prescient in doing that so that the [archival electronic records] program could at least still survive. I mean it was certainly being taxed very heavily to have so much of its resources handling that case. But what we could do didn't involve a sort of building on what had gone before with the intention of it affecting reference and access until the late 1990s, which is when NARA was finally in a position to let the contract that led to the development of the Access to Archival Databases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AAD."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is still up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the development of the AAD and your role in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was very directly involved in that. We worked with contractors, using the metadata that is produced as a result of processing to then develop a capability for a selection of the holdings, those which really lend themselves to individual record level access to be available for search and retrieval on an individual record level. So those would be records that identify specific persons, places, institutions. A large proportion of the holdings which are research files that agencies produce are not appropriate for record level access. So AAD only deals with files that are appropriate for record level access and we use the metadata from the processing to then have the metadata that could be displayed as the codes and values for the data that is record level accessible, and that’s where AAD shines. And I’d like to see it get some expansion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For those who are listening who don’t really know about AAD, could you kind of describe a little bit about what kind of researcher would use that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.175322902242414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was. The unit itself changed to many different identities but yes. That’s what I came to the Archives to do. That’s what, I mean, I had had this opportunity that was really very unique and, you know, my work with the University of Wisconsin and then at Kentucky doesn’t fit any kind of real career path nor, even now, is there really training for that kind of career path. So, I very deliberately was coming to the National Archives to be a part of what was then called the machine-readable branch and which now is the electronic records division."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, did the Archives offer additional training opportunities for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. I took a bunch of courses at NIH, well, so it was NIH, I mean the government sponsored them. But that's primarily what I did. And then of course from time to time there would be a variety of management courses and that kind of thing. [I also had immersed myself in archival literature when I was working on that NHPRC-sponsored project for the Kentucky State Archives. I also had opportunities throughout my career for the kind of training that comes from participating in professional associations and meetings, and NARA was very supportive in this regard. I published a number of articles and also taught some workshops, and you always learn a lot through that kind of activity. And, I had an opportunity for a several month detail at OMB, which was highly informative]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did the change in the Archivist and Acting Archivist and the new Archivist change your work at all? Did they implement any changes or ask you to make changes or did you basically have a constant mission the entire time and didn’t really deviate—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Me personally?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess you personally and then also the machine-readable/electronic records programs."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.503603621132296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn’t put a date on that. There was a point at which—and the [electronic records] reference staff moved down to the 18th tier. I mean, obviously it’s not—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah, where you [were] originally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the 20th or 21st tier, I’m not sure. The machine-readable branch was on 20 and then there were a few people who had offices up on 21; that’s just a stack entry. And then there was a biggish room on 18 which was opened up for the reference staff of machine-readable. And I know we were in there when we got the PCs but I couldn’t tell you for sure when we moved down there. But we moved out to College Park in the 1990s, let’s see. Clinton was elected in...?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "‘92."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1992. So, the PROFS case began in—so he became President in ‘93 and that’s when all hell broke loose in 1993. So, my guess is it must have been 1994 that the machine-readable branch, by then the Center for Electronic Records, moved to College Park. Before that there had also been expansion when Ken Thibodeau came on as director of the Center. His office was down on the 5th or 6th tier, someplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it doesn’t exist probably."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.004004023480329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the 20th or 21st tier, I’m not sure. The machine-readable branch was on 20 and then there were a few people who had offices up on 21; that’s just a stack entry. And then there was a biggish room on 18 which was opened up for the reference staff of machine-readable. And I know we were in there when we got the PCs but I couldn’t tell you for sure when we moved down there. But we moved out to College Park in the 1990s, let’s see. Clinton was elected in...?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "‘92."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1992. So, the PROFS case began in—so he became President in ‘93 and that’s when all hell broke loose in 1993. So, my guess is it must have been 1994 that the machine-readable branch, by then the Center for Electronic Records, moved to College Park. Before that there had also been expansion when Ken Thibodeau came on as director of the Center. His office was down on the 5th or 6th tier, someplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it doesn’t exist probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’m sure none of this exists anymore. But all of this was better than the stories I always heard from the folks who were—see Trudy Peterson’s article in the 30 years book—when they were down on 14th Street in some offices on 14th Street when 14th Street was not where anybody wanted to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, then you moved to College Park in 1994."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.115560026089254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1992. So, the PROFS case began in—so he became President in ‘93 and that’s when all hell broke loose in 1993. So, my guess is it must have been 1994 that the machine-readable branch, by then the Center for Electronic Records, moved to College Park. Before that there had also been expansion when Ken Thibodeau came on as director of the Center. His office was down on the 5th or 6th tier, someplace else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it doesn’t exist probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’m sure none of this exists anymore. But all of this was better than the stories I always heard from the folks who were—see Trudy Peterson’s article in the 30 years book—when they were down on 14th Street in some offices on 14th Street when 14th Street was not where anybody wanted to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, then you moved to College Park in 1994."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was sometime before that that we got computers. Probably at least two years before that so it—but I mean it was a goodly while, I mean, we got pretty adept at using the Wang and there was also the NCR machine for the Trust Fund. and Wang to do a little bit of word-processing. And then the DECwriter interactive terminal, typing terminals. That’s what we used for interaction with NIH and the maintenance of the Title List such as it was that we had then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when you moved to College Park, were you provided new equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.350622251210282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’m sure none of this exists anymore. But all of this was better than the stories I always heard from the folks who were—see Trudy Peterson’s article in the 30 years book—when they were down on 14th Street in some offices on 14th Street when 14th Street was not where anybody wanted to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, then you moved to College Park in 1994."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was sometime before that that we got computers. Probably at least two years before that so it—but I mean it was a goodly while, I mean, we got pretty adept at using the Wang and there was also the NCR machine for the Trust Fund. and Wang to do a little bit of word-processing. And then the DECwriter interactive terminal, typing terminals. That’s what we used for interaction with NIH and the maintenance of the Title List such as it was that we had then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when you moved to College Park, were you provided new equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did things change with that move?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.611802501344759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was sometime before that that we got computers. Probably at least two years before that so it—but I mean it was a goodly while, I mean, we got pretty adept at using the Wang and there was also the NCR machine for the Trust Fund. and Wang to do a little bit of word-processing. And then the DECwriter interactive terminal, typing terminals. That’s what we used for interaction with NIH and the maintenance of the Title List such as it was that we had then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when you moved to College Park, were you provided new equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did things change with that move?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think a whole lot (as we continued to use BitNet and were already using office automation]. But, you know, you forget an awful lot. It’s like with any kind of pain [laughing], you forget it. I mean, compared to the facility, the kind of physical environment, it was really nice being downtown but the physical environment was really lacking. And those of us on the 18th tier actually had nice digs. So many of our colleagues in the then-expanded Center for Electronic Records, were in space that was just unbelievable. So, it was very positive change that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were all brought together into one office space?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.013113890383064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did things change with that move?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think a whole lot (as we continued to use BitNet and were already using office automation]. But, you know, you forget an awful lot. It’s like with any kind of pain [laughing], you forget it. I mean, compared to the facility, the kind of physical environment, it was really nice being downtown but the physical environment was really lacking. And those of us on the 18th tier actually had nice digs. So many of our colleagues in the then-expanded Center for Electronic Records, were in space that was just unbelievable. So, it was very positive change that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were all brought together into one office space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One—yes, yes, one large office space. Well, two large office spaces but they were just across the corridor from each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they on the sixth floor?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.347904322647848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think a whole lot (as we continued to use BitNet and were already using office automation]. But, you know, you forget an awful lot. It’s like with any kind of pain [laughing], you forget it. I mean, compared to the facility, the kind of physical environment, it was really nice being downtown but the physical environment was really lacking. And those of us on the 18th tier actually had nice digs. So many of our colleagues in the then-expanded Center for Electronic Records, were in space that was just unbelievable. So, it was very positive change that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were all brought together into one office space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One—yes, yes, one large office space. Well, two large office spaces but they were just across the corridor from each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they on the sixth floor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifth. And then at some point we also moved down to the fourth floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And then you continued to work in reference."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.831004802942052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One—yes, yes, one large office space. Well, two large office spaces but they were just across the corridor from each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they on the sixth floor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifth. And then at some point we also moved down to the fourth floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And then you continued to work in reference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were—well, I guess your whole career?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.256672003268946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifth. And then at some point we also moved down to the fourth floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And then you continued to work in reference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were—well, I guess your whole career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And after Tom Brown retired as the head of the Archival Services branch of the Center, I took his responsibilities and eventually was hired into that position. So, for the last six years or so of my career, I was managing the Archival Services program more generally, but up until that point I was doing the reference part of it [although I also had other responsibilities like the review of records schedules and appraisals]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.729635559187718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were—well, I guess your whole career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And after Tom Brown retired as the head of the Archival Services branch of the Center, I took his responsibilities and eventually was hired into that position. So, for the last six years or so of my career, I was managing the Archival Services program more generally, but up until that point I was doing the reference part of it [although I also had other responsibilities like the review of records schedules and appraisals]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I [had been] assistant branch chief [since shortly before we moved to College Park] and my primary responsibility was the reference program until I became the chief of archival services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you enjoy that, being the branch chief?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.255150621319686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And after Tom Brown retired as the head of the Archival Services branch of the Center, I took his responsibilities and eventually was hired into that position. So, for the last six years or so of my career, I was managing the Archival Services program more generally, but up until that point I was doing the reference part of it [although I also had other responsibilities like the review of records schedules and appraisals]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I [had been] assistant branch chief [since shortly before we moved to College Park] and my primary responsibility was the reference program until I became the chief of archival services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you enjoy that, being the branch chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just a lot more work, with, you know, that kind of thing is always an opportunity to try out things that you thought about for some time. But I had worked very closely with Tom for about a decade so it was not that much of a change really. Except that I had a larger workload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other sorts of projects did you work on?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.72794513479965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] I [had been] assistant branch chief [since shortly before we moved to College Park] and my primary responsibility was the reference program until I became the chief of archival services."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you enjoy that, being the branch chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just a lot more work, with, you know, that kind of thing is always an opportunity to try out things that you thought about for some time. But I had worked very closely with Tom for about a decade so it was not that much of a change really. Except that I had a larger workload."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What other sorts of projects did you work on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, all the various developments to make known the holdings, which as I said started out as the Title List and then that graduated, morphed into, I mean, when the staff started putting things [descriptive records] into the Archival Research Catalog. But that didn’t occur until the early 2000s. So, all that time we were developing our own ways of getting in touch with researchers and informing them—writing informal reference papers, focusing on things about which we were getting a fair demand. So, trying to capture something in a brief leaflet. Not a formal RIP but just a casual two pager or so. And then AAD was a full other range and then what we started doing was—and I did not do a lot of this work myself but I directed it—[some very talented staff did it]—the work to making the records available online for download. And that’s a whole additional process of getting the documentation so that it can be in shape to be scanned, so that it can be downloaded, because you can’t use the data without the documentation. And most of the documentation that we received, at least up until the era of the internet, was all print on paper. So that all had to be—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine. That’s a lot of paper."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.17046964609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was more than a full-time job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Yes, the new media comes out. It’s almost like, awe, another one. So, can you talk about some of the awards you received for your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been fortunate to receive some recognition both from the Society of American Archivists, being named a Fellow, and from IASSIST, the International Association of Social Science Information Service and Technology, which has sort of been my home professional organization since, well, it didn’t exist when I was in Wisconsin, but since I was in Kentucky. And so that’s a small organization. IASSIST named me a, what do they call it, a lifetime achievement award or something like that. You could look up [their website, www.iassistdata.org]. It’s an organization of people like ourselves whose primary job is to identify, preserve, and make available social science data. Most of the National Archives' holdings in electronic form are archival records which can be used for social science research. [Other awards included Fynnette Eaton's] guest-edited issue of The American Archivist in which I had an article on the history of punch card [records] and how they are the predecessor to electronic records. Tom Brown had an article, Linda Henry had an article, Bruce Ambacher had an article. I mean many of the people had authorship in the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] the 30 years book"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 years book. And that American Archivist issue received an award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you said you do reference but are there certain aspects of reference you really enjoy doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 12.4116329401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been fortunate to receive some recognition both from the Society of American Archivists, being named a Fellow, and from IASSIST, the International Association of Social Science Information Service and Technology, which has sort of been my home professional organization since, well, it didn’t exist when I was in Wisconsin, but since I was in Kentucky. And so that’s a small organization. IASSIST named me a, what do they call it, a lifetime achievement award or something like that. You could look up [their website, www.iassistdata.org]. It’s an organization of people like ourselves whose primary job is to identify, preserve, and make available social science data. Most of the National Archives' holdings in electronic form are archival records which can be used for social science research. [Other awards included Fynnette Eaton's] guest-edited issue of The American Archivist in which I had an article on the history of punch card [records] and how they are the predecessor to electronic records. Tom Brown had an article, Linda Henry had an article, Bruce Ambacher had an article. I mean many of the people had authorship in the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] the 30 years book"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 years book. And that American Archivist issue received an award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you said you do reference but are there certain aspects of reference you really enjoy doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I mean, it's always fun to work with people who think they have found something that nobody else has found. Sometimes that’s true. Sometimes NARA will have preserved some record for a very long time that no researcher has really ever exploited and for a researcher to find those records is always very exciting, as is helping them do that. But I would say helping the guy who said, “I lost my legs but not my life,” helping the media find and identify the unknown soldier, those are real high points. But having the rest of the world understand that the United States is committed to preserving its digital data has always been a high point too. So, all my opportunities to participate in various professional associations were... I could carry that message."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about some of the challenges that you faced while here?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.876441000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I was getting on [laughing]. I worked until I was 70. So, I think that was time for me to move on. New people could do it and I needed to just step back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in 2013?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you miss it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t miss the commute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.1561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t miss the commute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in DC, upper northwest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t miss the commute and I think the day-to-day grind after a while, [one] just gets tired. It was time to move on. I did not want to do contract work in this field partially because I think the government should employ more people directly. But of course, I miss it. I mean, it’s been a part of my [professional] life always. And I try to keep up online with as much as I can in terms of evolution, things that are important in SAA and I’ve done some writing and I did edit a volume of articles for IASSIST after I retired. I have an article that theoretically was supposed to be out some time ago that I was asked to do a year or so ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you’re still active?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I live in DC, upper northwest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t miss the commute and I think the day-to-day grind after a while, [one] just gets tired. It was time to move on. I did not want to do contract work in this field partially because I think the government should employ more people directly. But of course, I miss it. I mean, it’s been a part of my [professional] life always. And I try to keep up online with as much as I can in terms of evolution, things that are important in SAA and I’ve done some writing and I did edit a volume of articles for IASSIST after I retired. I have an article that theoretically was supposed to be out some time ago that I was asked to do a year or so ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you’re still active?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still a little bit, yeah. And I do other volunteer work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, I know I said it would be an hour and we’re about 10 minutes over but I was wondering, is there anything else you want to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but what kind of electronic business are you going to be in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you see, I mean, you worked here, do you think the Archives is—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] You see, my soft spot is still with the data, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Will the Archives as a whole really—I mean, do the research reference staff here in this building as well as the ones at Archives II think of digital data as a primary source when they’re working with people? They do if they know about a particular file or they know—I mean, I think there’s a fair amount of use of resources that are on AAD. But, does primary source documentation to them incorporate that kind of resource? I mean, it’s not unlike, you probably would find some people challenged by thinking of photographs, still photos, digital photos now. Well, the historical record is very word based. Data is not word based. So yes, I think we’re going electronic and I think [digital] data are going to continue to be created because that’s what runs agencies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s what’s really—I mean, I think the data, because you can study and you can find trends and you can point out things that are wrong—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] You see, my soft spot is still with the data, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Will the Archives as a whole really—I mean, do the research reference staff here in this building as well as the ones at Archives II think of digital data as a primary source when they’re working with people? They do if they know about a particular file or they know—I mean, I think there’s a fair amount of use of resources that are on AAD. But, does primary source documentation to them incorporate that kind of resource? I mean, it’s not unlike, you probably would find some people challenged by thinking of photographs, still photos, digital photos now. Well, the historical record is very word based. Data is not word based. So yes, I think we’re going electronic and I think [digital] data are going to continue to be created because that’s what runs agencies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s what’s really—I mean, I think the data, because you can study and you can find trends and you can point out things that are wrong—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially since the agencies don’t talk to each other, we really need to keep that information."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Will the Archives as a whole really—I mean, do the research reference staff here in this building as well as the ones at Archives II think of digital data as a primary source when they’re working with people? They do if they know about a particular file or they know—I mean, I think there’s a fair amount of use of resources that are on AAD. But, does primary source documentation to them incorporate that kind of resource? I mean, it’s not unlike, you probably would find some people challenged by thinking of photographs, still photos, digital photos now. Well, the historical record is very word based. Data is not word based. So yes, I think we’re going electronic and I think [digital] data are going to continue to be created because that’s what runs agencies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that’s what’s really—I mean, I think the data, because you can study and you can find trends and you can point out things that are wrong—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially since the agencies don’t talk to each other, we really need to keep that information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And make it available."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially since the agencies don’t talk to each other, we really need to keep that information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And make it available."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and make it available and preserve—well, have to identify first what’s valuable and then, I mean, for the longest time, and I don’t know what the policy is right now, but for the longest time the policy of the National Archives was only to accept digital data that was in a software independent format. Now I know that’s gone by the by but the logic behind that was that it was through having software-independent records that you could preserve them long term and retain the ability to use those records with whatever software and hardware gets developed down the road because we know this is never going to end. And it’s never going to be the case that something happens out there that’s going to solve the problem and you’re not going to have to keep migrating or whatever it is we’re now doing. I think an understanding of technological innovation says that that’s not going to happen. So, I would just like to see us move a little bit more to, you know, integration of mentalities about the value of digital data as a primary source."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you so much—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And make it available."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and make it available and preserve—well, have to identify first what’s valuable and then, I mean, for the longest time, and I don’t know what the policy is right now, but for the longest time the policy of the National Archives was only to accept digital data that was in a software independent format. Now I know that’s gone by the by but the logic behind that was that it was through having software-independent records that you could preserve them long term and retain the ability to use those records with whatever software and hardware gets developed down the road because we know this is never going to end. And it’s never going to be the case that something happens out there that’s going to solve the problem and you’re not going to have to keep migrating or whatever it is we’re now doing. I think an understanding of technological innovation says that that’s not going to happen. So, I would just like to see us move a little bit more to, you know, integration of mentalities about the value of digital data as a primary source."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you so much—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Well, you’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—for sharing with me. This was great."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and make it available and preserve—well, have to identify first what’s valuable and then, I mean, for the longest time, and I don’t know what the policy is right now, but for the longest time the policy of the National Archives was only to accept digital data that was in a software independent format. Now I know that’s gone by the by but the logic behind that was that it was through having software-independent records that you could preserve them long term and retain the ability to use those records with whatever software and hardware gets developed down the road because we know this is never going to end. And it’s never going to be the case that something happens out there that’s going to solve the problem and you’re not going to have to keep migrating or whatever it is we’re now doing. I think an understanding of technological innovation says that that’s not going to happen. So, I would just like to see us move a little bit more to, you know, integration of mentalities about the value of digital data as a primary source."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you so much—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Well, you’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—for sharing with me. This was great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, I mean, it was an exciting opportunity to have a chance to work on [and talk about] this, all those years and from the punch card era to the online."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That’s quite a change when you think about punch cards to, I mean, you probably, I probably, couldn’t even envision the internet. I don’t know, it must have been a huge technological advancement while working with these electronic records, having this created and—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00043:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Well, you’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—for sharing with me. This was great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, I mean, it was an exciting opportunity to have a chance to work on [and talk about] this, all those years and from the punch card era to the online."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That’s quite a change when you think about punch cards to, I mean, you probably, I probably, couldn’t even envision the internet. I don’t know, it must have been a huge technological advancement while working with these electronic records, having this created and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Oh, yeah, it was marvelous. I mean, you know, you could see how technology was going to take us down the road. The advantage I had by starting with punch cards is I also could visualize what it is to store bits and bytes and so I had a mental picture. So, I’m not unlike what I’m critiquing here, saying that people are only going to go with what they understand, I mean, so I could understand how information was being stored and so when we migrated to tape, it was still organized the same way but I could understand it in a way that somebody who didn’t have that opportunity had to learn it differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That’s great. Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00033:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 98.03063425267385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was doing part-time teaching in St. Louis and looking for jobs as a full- time professor and there were no jobs. A friend of mine from grad school, Alan Perry, who was already with the National Archives, suggested that I apply for a position. He said that it was history-related and it paid okay and it had benefits, so it seemed like a good thing to do. And so I took the civil service exam and, a few months after that, was selected for a training position to be an archivist, starting at the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing prior to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching part-time, mostly at community colleges in St. Louis, but actually wherever they would hire me. And jobs were getting scarce, so I needed something permanent and full- time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your education influence your decision to come to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a history major undergrad. My Ph.D. was in French history, so I wanted to do something that was history-related. And certainly the National Archives has a strong history component and, in fact, to be an archivist at the time, and I’m not sure if it’s still the case, you had to have 30 hours of American history or politics or some related field. And so it’s definitely, my history degree was something useful in a job and actually having a PhD helped. The National Archives was good at the process of hiring a lot of history PhDs who could not get jobs in academia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. What would this timeframe be? Can you encapsulate a timeframe period that we’re talking here as your history in the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00033:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 106.70070472519316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching part-time, mostly at community colleges in St. Louis, but actually wherever they would hire me. And jobs were getting scarce, so I needed something permanent and full- time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your education influence your decision to come to the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a history major undergrad. My Ph.D. was in French history, so I wanted to do something that was history-related. And certainly the National Archives has a strong history component and, in fact, to be an archivist at the time, and I’m not sure if it’s still the case, you had to have 30 hours of American history or politics or some related field. And so it’s definitely, my history degree was something useful in a job and actually having a PhD helped. The National Archives was good at the process of hiring a lot of history PhDs who could not get jobs in academia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. What would this timeframe be? Can you encapsulate a timeframe period that we’re talking here as your history in the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I started in October 1977 in St. Louis, and so, that’s 37 and a half years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your impressions of the agency at the time that you began?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00033:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah, without question. Certainly with just locally we have National Park Service records, which are coming in at a decent pace. We have records of Portsmouth Navy Yard from the 19th century that we’re still working on getting in without people having direct contact, people in Boston having contact with Portsmouth, we’re not going to get those records. And that’s just one example, I’m sure I could come up with a lot of other examples. Not only in New England, but throughout the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Is there anything else that you would like to add, any anecdotes or words of wisdom or, so to speak, of anything? And I know it’s a pretty broad question again that we’re asking of you here, but is there anything else that you’d like to address before we end our interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess just that I didn’t grow up saying, gee, when I grow up, I want to be an archivist. And even in college and grad school, I wasn’t doing that. I was using archives but I didn’t want to be an archivist. Yeah, I was going to go, you know, teach people, and yet it’s a really interesting and rewarding career. And, yeah, so you have fun with the records. It’s been great and the people have been great. So, you know, although it was not my initial career path, as it turned out, I’m very happy with it. I’m happy with what I’ve done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you’d do differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a hard question. Yeah, I’d probably make some different appraisal decisions, but, keep this, throw out that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as a career move you feel that this was a good direction?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00033:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess just that I didn’t grow up saying, gee, when I grow up, I want to be an archivist. And even in college and grad school, I wasn’t doing that. I was using archives but I didn’t want to be an archivist. Yeah, I was going to go, you know, teach people, and yet it’s a really interesting and rewarding career. And, yeah, so you have fun with the records. It’s been great and the people have been great. So, you know, although it was not my initial career path, as it turned out, I’m very happy with it. I’m happy with what I’ve done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you’d do differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a hard question. Yeah, I’d probably make some different appraisal decisions, but, keep this, throw out that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as a career move you feel that this was a good direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I think, yeah, because I’ve really enjoyed working directly with the records. One of the things in RSA, if you get too many promotions you get separated from actual contact with the records. And sometimes very consciously chosen not to go for a promotion where I’d be doing more management and less records work. And I think that’s, for me that’s the correct decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, Marvin. Thank you for your time, thank you for your service."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00033:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a hard question. Yeah, I’d probably make some different appraisal decisions, but, keep this, throw out that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as a career move you feel that this was a good direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I think, yeah, because I’ve really enjoyed working directly with the records. One of the things in RSA, if you get too many promotions you get separated from actual contact with the records. And sometimes very consciously chosen not to go for a promotion where I’d be doing more management and less records work. And I think that’s, for me that’s the correct decision."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, Marvin. Thank you for your time, thank you for your service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Appreciate it, and I’m sure for the record everybody who looks at this recording in the future will come, will come away with a better perspective on the National Archives and certainly a better perspective of you as a human being as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 40.579986692211364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This Office did not need to exist. It was because, I think, of the fairly painful year we went through in trying to take these three different projects and mold them such that they would all conduct their business sort of the same way. It just wasn’t working. Let’s face it, some of it had to do with the people involved—even on our side, Larry and my side—but some of it had to do with the players involved who were involved in these other projects. It was short-lived. It was at least a year, I’m thinking, and then I’ll just say we had the guts to stand up and tell Center management that we don’t think this needs to exist. So it went away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Management was fine with that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they were. I know we’re going to cover this maybe even next, but one thing that came out of this was the EVA Projects Office, came out of doing away with the JSC Projects Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come out of it? I know you were deputy manager for EVA Integration. I was wondering how that also went through and if that changed things at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was. As it turns out, the smaller office that was under the JSC Projects Office umbrella—the smaller office and its leader was not at all happy that in the head office, the JSC Projects Office, there was a position “EVA manager.” That didn’t go over very well, either.\\n\\n I would say the most awkward period of my career started during that time and lasted until we decided that we no longer needed the JSC Projects Office then going and falling into the EVA Project. It’s interesting, Jennifer. My first journey from Flight Operations—all my career over to the nine-story Building 1—my first journey in existence over here was pretty rough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.22971416905478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suspect that my experience with EVAs during Shuttle, being in the EVA Projects Office, being very much involved with trying to combine our resources, i.e., get the stuff from Marshall over here—probably just natural to be part of that. Jennifer, I can’t remember. When I did that I can’t remember what job I was in, because the ORI [Operational Readiness Inspection] cochairman was just a part-time thing. So I can’t remember where I was at that time, whether I was chief of the Flight Director Office, I don’t know. Do you remember the year that that was done?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was ’97. So you were still in your position at the EVA Projects Office, because you went back to MOD [Mission Operations Directorate] in ’98 to be deputy chief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it was ’97 then I was still over in EVA Projects Office. So I think that answers the question. Jerry Ross was picked because of already his interest in EVA and experience in that, then EVA Projects Office was going to supply the cochair. I just became a natural to do that I think, but the fact that I had the Hubble experience didn’t hurt, I’m sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m sure it didn’t. Because that’s where we really—as somebody used the term recently—EVA stuck its head out of the closet for the first time, with the five back-to-back EVAs that we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, there weren’t many, then all of a sudden there was a huge jump. Were you looking at anything like virtual reality? I thought you had used some of that on STS-61. Was that also another issue you were looking at?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.477460187838645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it was ’97 then I was still over in EVA Projects Office. So I think that answers the question. Jerry Ross was picked because of already his interest in EVA and experience in that, then EVA Projects Office was going to supply the cochair. I just became a natural to do that I think, but the fact that I had the Hubble experience didn’t hurt, I’m sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m sure it didn’t. Because that’s where we really—as somebody used the term recently—EVA stuck its head out of the closet for the first time, with the five back-to-back EVAs that we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, there weren’t many, then all of a sudden there was a huge jump. Were you looking at anything like virtual reality? I thought you had used some of that on STS-61. Was that also another issue you were looking at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, virtual reality, what a marvelous tool. Yes, man, yes. In fact, I think the crews really fell in love with that. I can understand why. That was well done. The little outfit, the guys and gals that ran that thing, that lab was over, I think, in Building 9. It was one of those things that you walked in, and it looked like my garage. It was just helter-skelter. They had a small team over there that was remarkable in what they could get done, on a very slim budget, very slim budget. You talk about a group of people that got stuff done, they were really a great group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that first Station mission? Jerry Ross was on that mission, STS-88."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.86384465315405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’m sure it didn’t. Because that’s where we really—as somebody used the term recently—EVA stuck its head out of the closet for the first time, with the five back-to-back EVAs that we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, there weren’t many, then all of a sudden there was a huge jump. Were you looking at anything like virtual reality? I thought you had used some of that on STS-61. Was that also another issue you were looking at?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, virtual reality, what a marvelous tool. Yes, man, yes. In fact, I think the crews really fell in love with that. I can understand why. That was well done. The little outfit, the guys and gals that ran that thing, that lab was over, I think, in Building 9. It was one of those things that you walked in, and it looked like my garage. It was just helter-skelter. They had a small team over there that was remarkable in what they could get done, on a very slim budget, very slim budget. You talk about a group of people that got stuff done, they were really a great group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that first Station mission? Jerry Ross was on that mission, STS-88."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, you tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wondered if it made an impact on you. I know you’ve been involved with so many missions. After a while it’s probably like everything else, [it] just kind of melds [together] unless there’s a specific memory."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.404271836837834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, virtual reality, what a marvelous tool. Yes, man, yes. In fact, I think the crews really fell in love with that. I can understand why. That was well done. The little outfit, the guys and gals that ran that thing, that lab was over, I think, in Building 9. It was one of those things that you walked in, and it looked like my garage. It was just helter-skelter. They had a small team over there that was remarkable in what they could get done, on a very slim budget, very slim budget. You talk about a group of people that got stuff done, they were really a great group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of that first Station mission? Jerry Ross was on that mission, STS-88."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, you tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wondered if it made an impact on you. I know you’ve been involved with so many missions. After a while it’s probably like everything else, [it] just kind of melds [together] unless there’s a specific memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer, I don’t know that I had any—occasionally I get asked a question like that and it’s like I don’t know that there’s a point that I pause and I say, “Wow, look at that. Look where we’ve come from.” I don’t really remember doing those things. So I don’t have a good answer for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You decided to go back to MOD, and became deputy chief, which I find interesting based on our previous discussion about management. So you must have felt pretty capable of handling management issues."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.00474648537537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, you tell me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wondered if it made an impact on you. I know you’ve been involved with so many missions. After a while it’s probably like everything else, [it] just kind of melds [together] unless there’s a specific memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jennifer, I don’t know that I had any—occasionally I get asked a question like that and it’s like I don’t know that there’s a point that I pause and I say, “Wow, look at that. Look where we’ve come from.” I don’t really remember doing those things. So I don’t have a good answer for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You decided to go back to MOD, and became deputy chief, which I find interesting based on our previous discussion about management. So you must have felt pretty capable of handling management issues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Feeling more capable. The thing I told you about a while ago, I think in EVA Projects Office I learned a lot about that. I don’t think I recognized that I learned a lot about that until later. Jeff [Jeffrey W.] Bantle was the chief of the Flight Director Office, and he asked would I be interested in coming back to be his deputy. It’s interesting—I alluded to this a while ago. For quite a while after that, when I got over there, people probably got tired of me saying this, but often I said, “I escaped Building 1.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you came back later."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.362367211288245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not a bad thing at all. Again, there’s an example of how that man was in touch. We actually wanted more, but we thought well [we cannot ask for that many]. Perhaps we should have gone in with even more and then come down, but we lowballed it a bit. We ended up getting nine.\\n\\n I am so proud of the outcome of this thing. Sometimes it’s awkward to talk about diversity. This class was one of the most diverse classes ever, and that’s the way it came out. Sometimes I think when you talk about these things or see how they came out, “Well, they had to hire so-and-so.” You know what I mean, “They had to do that.” No, that’s not the case. I got to select the first African American to be in that position—outstanding. Our class was three ladies. Of the nine we had two with Hispanic background, and we had the first African American. I really felt good about that, and that’s just the way it came out. I was very happy for that. As far as being in the Office and being the chief of the Office, that’s what I feel best about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a pretty proud moment, seeing a very diverse group of people coming in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s an article out there somewhere. The new class was interviewed by some magazine, and there’s an article out there. I’ll send it to you if you’re interested if I can find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of it says—and I can’t remember which flight director it was that was one of the first interviewees in the article. He said, “We came in the office”—I’m paraphrasing—“We came in the office for our first meeting, get-together. We all knew Uncle Milty. We came in and he closed the door. Basically he scared the living daylights out of us.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’d you say?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.95818579032027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s an article out there somewhere. The new class was interviewed by some magazine, and there’s an article out there. I’ll send it to you if you’re interested if I can find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of it says—and I can’t remember which flight director it was that was one of the first interviewees in the article. He said, “We came in the office”—I’m paraphrasing—“We came in the office for our first meeting, get-together. We all knew Uncle Milty. We came in and he closed the door. Basically he scared the living daylights out of us.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’d you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In so many words I said, “You have entered something that is very special, and I need to tell you I don’t want to see you pounding your chest for anything. There are a lot of people out there that could be here in your place. It just so happened that you’re the ones we have selected. No way do I want you to take this position as a flight director and make it”—these aren’t the words I used. Basically, you aren’t the king of the hill. You’re going to have to find a way to be humble but fearless when it comes to running this operation and being in Mission Control and being behind that console. It wasn’t anything I wrote down. It’s just what I felt and said at the time, but it scared the living daylights out of them. In the article, whether it’s true or not, one of them said, “I couldn’t sleep that night.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no. Did somebody secretly pass you that article just like they gave you that Congressional Record?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.7313175448003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of it says—and I can’t remember which flight director it was that was one of the first interviewees in the article. He said, “We came in the office”—I’m paraphrasing—“We came in the office for our first meeting, get-together. We all knew Uncle Milty. We came in and he closed the door. Basically he scared the living daylights out of us.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’d you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In so many words I said, “You have entered something that is very special, and I need to tell you I don’t want to see you pounding your chest for anything. There are a lot of people out there that could be here in your place. It just so happened that you’re the ones we have selected. No way do I want you to take this position as a flight director and make it”—these aren’t the words I used. Basically, you aren’t the king of the hill. You’re going to have to find a way to be humble but fearless when it comes to running this operation and being in Mission Control and being behind that console. It wasn’t anything I wrote down. It’s just what I felt and said at the time, but it scared the living daylights out of them. In the article, whether it’s true or not, one of them said, “I couldn’t sleep that night.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no. Did somebody secretly pass you that article just like they gave you that Congressional Record?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the assertiveness training I had back in the early days must have helped. It showed up again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. We’ve talked with people in the Astronaut Office about how they pick crews. How do you determine who’s going to be a flight director for missions? You also had Station missions now in addition to Shuttle missions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.587134580588145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you would hope so. But my visit to Baikonur and to Kazakhstan, getting off that plane and seeing what I saw for the first time, it was like “Holy cow.” Unbelievable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Paints a quite interesting picture in my head."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, “If you want to go to the bathroom it’s out there.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s crazy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure it was a real customs thing, but we got through customs pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. I wanted to ask you about 9/11 [terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001] and being here at JSC. What are your memories of that day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.430149533986828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, “If you want to go to the bathroom it’s out there.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s crazy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure it was a real customs thing, but we got through customs pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. I wanted to ask you about 9/11 [terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001] and being here at JSC. What are your memories of that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was chief of the Office then I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.922388371096476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure it was a real customs thing, but we got through customs pretty quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. I wanted to ask you about 9/11 [terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001] and being here at JSC. What are your memories of that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was chief of the Office then I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was chief of the Office then. Every morning Mission Operations Directorate would have an 8:00 telephone tag-up [with] the office chiefs, division chiefs from around the area. We’re sitting in this meeting when we get the word that the first plane has struck the building. We get the word, then of course it’s not long after that that the second one happens.\\n\\n Kind of a blur here, but we were doing a simulation that day. In fact, John [P.] Shannon was still a flight director. He was running a simulation. So I went over to the control center and talked to John, and I told him, I said, “We need to shut this operation down, this simulation. I want it shut down. I want you folks out of here.”\\n\\n I can’t remember the exact timing. That was still probably before noon here when I got over there. We’d already had a tagup or two with—back in those days the chief of the Flight Director Office was considered senior staff. Oh gosh, who was our Center Director?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it [Roy S.] Estess at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.469320412329418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was chief of the Office then I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was chief of the Office then. Every morning Mission Operations Directorate would have an 8:00 telephone tag-up [with] the office chiefs, division chiefs from around the area. We’re sitting in this meeting when we get the word that the first plane has struck the building. We get the word, then of course it’s not long after that that the second one happens.\\n\\n Kind of a blur here, but we were doing a simulation that day. In fact, John [P.] Shannon was still a flight director. He was running a simulation. So I went over to the control center and talked to John, and I told him, I said, “We need to shut this operation down, this simulation. I want it shut down. I want you folks out of here.”\\n\\n I can’t remember the exact timing. That was still probably before noon here when I got over there. We’d already had a tagup or two with—back in those days the chief of the Flight Director Office was considered senior staff. Oh gosh, who was our Center Director?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it [Roy S.] Estess at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Estess, it was Estess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.64093950972324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wonderful thing to do. So we got the people out of that building, they were already uncomfortable in that building. By the time we actually got that all done, [it was] somewhere in the midafternoon timeframe or late afternoon. We got them out of the building, we got them set up over at Building 5, where they could do what they needed to do, and stay there for a while. I don’t remember how long it was there, but that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did things change as a result? I remember being here that day, and the Center closed for a day. Were you involved in discussions about how we were going to safely bring people back onsite and changes to security, safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not involved in those sorts of things. It was our job, “Okay, we’re going to shut down things here from a training standpoint. The only thing we’re going to be doing right now is operating Space Station, and we’re going to be doing it from Building 5. That’s all we’re going to worry about is getting that done.” That’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think fairly soon after that there was a new guard shack put outside of the entrance to Building 30. I was curious if you knew the reason behind that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, if you think of what was done around the site, we had all of those—what do we call them, big iron posts put into the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, those barriers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.60104389969249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was not involved in those sorts of things. It was our job, “Okay, we’re going to shut down things here from a training standpoint. The only thing we’re going to be doing right now is operating Space Station, and we’re going to be doing it from Building 5. That’s all we’re going to worry about is getting that done.” That’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think fairly soon after that there was a new guard shack put outside of the entrance to Building 30. I was curious if you knew the reason behind that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, if you think of what was done around the site, we had all of those—what do we call them, big iron posts put into the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, those barriers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you think about it, a close-in perimeter was established at Mission Control specifically to be sure that it was protected from any threats like that in the future. Yes, there was a guard shack put out on both sides of the building over on Building 30, both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, I forgot about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.667826555213878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, if you think of what was done around the site, we had all of those—what do we call them, big iron posts put into the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, those barriers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you think about it, a close-in perimeter was established at Mission Control specifically to be sure that it was protected from any threats like that in the future. Yes, there was a guard shack put out on both sides of the building over on Building 30, both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, I forgot about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, to enter the parking lot on either side you had to go through the guard shack. Clearly 9/11 caused that to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and now we’re not operating them anymore. That happened fairly quickly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.853140616904309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you think about it, a close-in perimeter was established at Mission Control specifically to be sure that it was protected from any threats like that in the future. Yes, there was a guard shack put out on both sides of the building over on Building 30, both of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, I forgot about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, to enter the parking lot on either side you had to go through the guard shack. Clearly 9/11 caused that to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and now we’re not operating them anymore. That happened fairly quickly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, the barrier is still up. Yes, I think that makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also wanted to ask you about Hurricane Lili, which happened the next year, because it was so unusual. It’s my understanding that was the first time a flight was delayed because of weather here in Houston. You had to close down Mission Control. You want to talk about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.170156241004788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, to enter the parking lot on either side you had to go through the guard shack. Clearly 9/11 caused that to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and now we’re not operating them anymore. That happened fairly quickly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, the barrier is still up. Yes, I think that makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also wanted to ask you about Hurricane Lili, which happened the next year, because it was so unusual. It’s my understanding that was the first time a flight was delayed because of weather here in Houston. You had to close down Mission Control. You want to talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For Station, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shuttle got delayed because of that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.522395823338654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, the barrier is still up. Yes, I think that makes sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also wanted to ask you about Hurricane Lili, which happened the next year, because it was so unusual. It’s my understanding that was the first time a flight was delayed because of weather here in Houston. You had to close down Mission Control. You want to talk about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For Station, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shuttle got delayed because of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shuttle got delayed. So this is the one where we packed up and went to Austin area or something like that—no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read you transferred over to backup in Moscow."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.913773137042948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For Station, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shuttle got delayed because of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shuttle got delayed. So this is the one where we packed up and went to Austin area or something like that—no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read you transferred over to backup in Moscow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, that’s right. There was another weather event another time where we ended up shutting down the Station. We weren’t flying Shuttle, but Station was up, and we ended up taking a team over to somewhere over near the Hill Country and setting up operating remotely from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during your tenure as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.348636818936608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shuttle got delayed. So this is the one where we packed up and went to Austin area or something like that—no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read you transferred over to backup in Moscow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, that’s right. There was another weather event another time where we ended up shutting down the Station. We weren’t flying Shuttle, but Station was up, and we ended up taking a team over to somewhere over near the Hill Country and setting up operating remotely from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during your tenure as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I might have been working for Coats at the time as Associate Director, or I could have been the deputy of MOD at the time. I don’t remember. But no, you’re right, there was a time when we handed over control. To Moscow is a little bit misleading because we had our people over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yes, there was a backup American team."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.942929798818453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, that’s right. There was another weather event another time where we ended up shutting down the Station. We weren’t flying Shuttle, but Station was up, and we ended up taking a team over to somewhere over near the Hill Country and setting up operating remotely from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during your tenure as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I might have been working for Coats at the time as Associate Director, or I could have been the deputy of MOD at the time. I don’t remember. But no, you’re right, there was a time when we handed over control. To Moscow is a little bit misleading because we had our people over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yes, there was a backup American team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we actually had people over there that could work with the Russians there. In fact, we always have them there. Even now we have a small team, I think, still over there. I don’t remember being involved in the decision process to do that. If I was working for Coats at the time I would have known about it, and I would have nodded my head, said, “It makes perfect sense to me to do that.” Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Lili were you involved in that decision to shut things down and power things down and transfer control?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.603255332020503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I might have been working for Coats at the time as Associate Director, or I could have been the deputy of MOD at the time. I don’t remember. But no, you’re right, there was a time when we handed over control. To Moscow is a little bit misleading because we had our people over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, yes, there was a backup American team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we actually had people over there that could work with the Russians there. In fact, we always have them there. Even now we have a small team, I think, still over there. I don’t remember being involved in the decision process to do that. If I was working for Coats at the time I would have known about it, and I would have nodded my head, said, “It makes perfect sense to me to do that.” Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Lili were you involved in that decision to shut things down and power things down and transfer control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was on Coats’s staff I sat in on all the meetings where we had briefings during hurricane season, when we were considering going to different levels of protection. I sat in on all these meetings, but I didn’t need to say anything. I wasn’t involved. I didn’t actually have to be. If I heard something I questioned, I could do that, but I wasn’t actually a voting member to say, “We’re going to shut down the Center.” My position wasn’t such. I was welcome to say anything anytime I wanted to, but there was no need for me to, so I wasn’t involved in the decision to shut the Center down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to ask you about [Space Shuttle] Columbia [STS-107 disaster] because you had some involvement immediately after the accident."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.44806148002278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we actually had people over there that could work with the Russians there. In fact, we always have them there. Even now we have a small team, I think, still over there. I don’t remember being involved in the decision process to do that. If I was working for Coats at the time I would have known about it, and I would have nodded my head, said, “It makes perfect sense to me to do that.” Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Lili were you involved in that decision to shut things down and power things down and transfer control?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was on Coats’s staff I sat in on all the meetings where we had briefings during hurricane season, when we were considering going to different levels of protection. I sat in on all these meetings, but I didn’t need to say anything. I wasn’t involved. I didn’t actually have to be. If I heard something I questioned, I could do that, but I wasn’t actually a voting member to say, “We’re going to shut down the Center.” My position wasn’t such. I was welcome to say anything anytime I wanted to, but there was no need for me to, so I wasn’t involved in the decision to shut the Center down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to ask you about [Space Shuttle] Columbia [STS-107 disaster] because you had some involvement immediately after the accident."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working that Saturday morning?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.280566106153833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. What the heck was I doing at that time? What year was that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in 2003. So you were still chief of the Flight Director Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, because then I got another duty after that time, Ombudsman. Public Affairs. I can’t remember if [Public Affairs Officer] Rob [Robert A.] Navias was in the room or Kyle [J.] Herring, I don’t remember who was in the room at the time. We’re getting to the time where NASA needs to say something. Somebody’s deciding we need to have a news conference and tell people what we know.\\n\\n I can’t remember how I was approached but I was standing there. I could tell that there was some interest in getting LeRoy. At this point somebody else had come into the room. We were getting ready to relieve—LeRoy has done what he can, so let’s let LeRoy step aside, and just do what he needs to do for a little bit. They were interested in LeRoy coming over and talking and I said, “No, I’ll do that.” I didn’t want LeRoy to do that. That’s how I got involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, “I’ll do that.” Nobody offered to take my place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was a pretty difficult press conference then. So many what-ifs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.311740117948702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, because then I got another duty after that time, Ombudsman. Public Affairs. I can’t remember if [Public Affairs Officer] Rob [Robert A.] Navias was in the room or Kyle [J.] Herring, I don’t remember who was in the room at the time. We’re getting to the time where NASA needs to say something. Somebody’s deciding we need to have a news conference and tell people what we know.\\n\\n I can’t remember how I was approached but I was standing there. I could tell that there was some interest in getting LeRoy. At this point somebody else had come into the room. We were getting ready to relieve—LeRoy has done what he can, so let’s let LeRoy step aside, and just do what he needs to do for a little bit. They were interested in LeRoy coming over and talking and I said, “No, I’ll do that.” I didn’t want LeRoy to do that. That’s how I got involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, “I’ll do that.” Nobody offered to take my place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was a pretty difficult press conference then. So many what-ifs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I regret something I said early in my opening statement. I wish I had said something in reference to the crew and the family. Ron spoke first, I believe, and he had made that comment I think. He said something. I think my first statement was something to the effect that, “I’m glad I live in a country where when we have something bad happen, we go fix it.” Something like that instead of saying something first about the family.\\n\\n The way I talk about these things between [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L tragedy]—I was here for the Apollo 1 fire in a very different role at that time. Here for of course the loss of Challenger, we’ve talked about that. This one really did indeed happen on my watch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s a difficult pill to swallow then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.457489019943003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, “I’ll do that.” Nobody offered to take my place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that was a pretty difficult press conference then. So many what-ifs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I regret something I said early in my opening statement. I wish I had said something in reference to the crew and the family. Ron spoke first, I believe, and he had made that comment I think. He said something. I think my first statement was something to the effect that, “I’m glad I live in a country where when we have something bad happen, we go fix it.” Something like that instead of saying something first about the family.\\n\\n The way I talk about these things between [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L tragedy]—I was here for the Apollo 1 fire in a very different role at that time. Here for of course the loss of Challenger, we’ve talked about that. This one really did indeed happen on my watch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s a difficult pill to swallow then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Did we talk about that last time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t talked about Columbia. We talked about Challenger."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.0163407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s interesting. All three of those—Apollo 1 fire, Challenger, Columbia—there’s a common thing in each one of those. And it is there were people that knew that we were doing something we shouldn’t be doing. Going all the way back to the Apollo 1 fire. There were people that were uncomfortable, knew we should not be doing something. So I wonder, Jennifer, have we really learned our lesson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess we won’t know until the next [accident]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Won’t know until the next time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If there is a next time with a similar sort of thing, i.e., some people were nervous in the background, knew something, felt uncomfortable, and they were right on, but they weren’t recognized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have about five minutes. I don’t know if you want to talk about some of the time that you spent out in East Texas and Louisiana, or if you just want to stop here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.684823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Won’t know until the next time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If there is a next time with a similar sort of thing, i.e., some people were nervous in the background, knew something, felt uncomfortable, and they were right on, but they weren’t recognized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have about five minutes. I don’t know if you want to talk about some of the time that you spent out in East Texas and Louisiana, or if you just want to stop here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can go ahead. Since I’m in that mode now, let me. So maybe it was a couple of weeks after, of course the recovery operation was under way. Have we talked about this yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t. We’ve been going chronologically through things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And thank them. That was good for me to do that for sure. I got to do that a lot. What that did for me was—and any time I do any public speaking I make a point to tell people. That reminded me of the true grit and backbone of this country, people just like them.\\n\\n Another short story I’ll tell you. Who’s the lady that’s running our small team out here that deals with people problems?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jackie [Jacqueline E.] Reese?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jackie Reese. Why I should forget Jackie Reese, because I’ve known her for a long time.\\n\\n Before I left the control center on the day that we lost Columbia, Jackie Reese came up and got in my face. She wanted to go into the Space Station control room and tell the people in there, tell them that she is available, and give them an initial briefing on how they can deal with this. Do her normal thing. I said, “No. No, no. We’re not going to do it. Not going to do it.”\\n\\n I started to walk away, and she got in my face again. So she told me again this is what she wanted to do. After about 10 minutes of trying to shoo her away—and I love Jackie Reese, I’ve been involved with her more than once helping individual employees get through some stuff. So she won me over, and I went in with her. It was the best thing I could have done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think it helped people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it helped them for damn sure. I heard that later from them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good decision."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jackie Reese. Why I should forget Jackie Reese, because I’ve known her for a long time.\\n\\n Before I left the control center on the day that we lost Columbia, Jackie Reese came up and got in my face. She wanted to go into the Space Station control room and tell the people in there, tell them that she is available, and give them an initial briefing on how they can deal with this. Do her normal thing. I said, “No. No, no. We’re not going to do it. Not going to do it.”\\n\\n I started to walk away, and she got in my face again. So she told me again this is what she wanted to do. After about 10 minutes of trying to shoo her away—and I love Jackie Reese, I’ve been involved with her more than once helping individual employees get through some stuff. So she won me over, and I went in with her. It was the best thing I could have done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think it helped people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it helped them for damn sure. I heard that later from them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But it took a little bit for me to get there, to get to that point. Jackie, she did a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are supposed to be tough, right? That challenges that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it helped them for damn sure. I heard that later from them, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But it took a little bit for me to get there, to get to that point. Jackie, she did a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are supposed to be tough, right? That challenges that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s where these tears come from, see. Tough, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. It’s hard losing your friends and colleagues."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But it took a little bit for me to get there, to get to that point. Jackie, she did a good job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You are supposed to be tough, right? That challenges that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s where these tears come from, see. Tough, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand. It’s hard losing your friends and colleagues."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I heard afterwards that people in there really appreciated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good decision."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I heard afterwards that people in there really appreciated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good for her to want to do that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might be a good stopping place for us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00238:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good for her to want to do that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might be a good stopping place for us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it might be, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it’s a more emotional interview than expected."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00306:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 60.77763153850855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They learned to fly. Yes, at that time, the six astronauts we had then, the scientist astronauts, they actually went to flight school. Nobody else went to flight school after that. Some of the guys came in, they’d already had some qualifications in the past, so they would get to fly—if somebody in the front seat would let them. Nobody was ever transitioned to pilot in command, at least in my watch during that time. They didn’t take an airplane out by themselves, but they would always angle around to go with somebody else. “I’ll go with anybody,” they’ll say, “throw me in the backseat, I’m going.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had so many hours they had to be in the air."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, 10 hours a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which doesn’t seem like much, except that they had pretty full schedules, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had really full schedules. Once they got assigned to a flight, it was easy, though, because then the airplanes became available to them. It’s a pecking order, and if you’re an ASCAN that’s not assigned, even if you’ve graduated, it’s hard to get a seat in there, so they’d just always hunching around. Two hours is a 2-hour flight, but you just did touch-and-goes, that is, when you go and fly around again and you land and take off. That was all good because you were getting your hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me go back, too, because I don’t know if we’re really finished with Challenger, what impacts did you have, and how your job changed when the Return to Flight was up and going?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00306:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.874541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, but actually, by that time, I would let my team lead go and represent the commander and that person, they would do that. As far as safety, like earlier, no. Somebody else did that. I don’t know anything about the Hubble in terms of sharp edges. That’s somebody else that had to make that call, but the astronauts were part of that discussion. If they said they could do it, then we’d train them to do it. If they agreed it was doable, that’s good, because that’s their call. If they’d say it’s too damn dangerous to do, well, I’m not going to talk them into it. That whole thing, I’m very proud of what they did with that first one. After that, everybody knew a lot more about Hubble, you could go back, we tore it apart.\\n\\n Just sliding that first big-ass spectrometer in there with the new lens on it, it made a whole difference. Different cameras added, it was great. I was so impressed with these guys. Tom [Thomas D.] Jones and all the different people kept going up there all the time, and what is this guy’s name, the one that’s in Washington as the Chief Scientist?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Currently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was up there twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "John [M. Grunsfeld]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Grunsfeld. Too many names, hundreds of names, if you think about it. He was up, he was an astronomer, he was trained as an astronomer, not trained as a mechanic. John is a super guy and I am so glad he is not here to see that I could not come up with his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mechanical astronomer—it starts a new field now, mechanical astronomy."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00306:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 18.74949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was up there twice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "John [M. Grunsfeld]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Grunsfeld. Too many names, hundreds of names, if you think about it. He was up, he was an astronomer, he was trained as an astronomer, not trained as a mechanic. John is a super guy and I am so glad he is not here to see that I could not come up with his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mechanical astronomer—it starts a new field now, mechanical astronomy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know, he said, “This is really different than the career I thought I was going to have.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Hubble and you also mentioned the time that the three astronauts went out, and Kraft. Are there others that stick in your mind from all those Shuttle missions that there more difficulty in training in those missions, or were just the missions difficult so it needed additional training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00282:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 39.09904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, I would expect to be on the front page, right? But there was a time where we had the Federal Women's Program. I guess they don't have it anymore; I don't know. But they would highlight women and women's accomplishments. Once a year we'd have a banquet and honor somebody for helping women. I got in trouble one time because I was interviewed for the Roundup. Is there still a Roundup?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was interviewed for the Roundup, and I said that my hope was that we would one day not need the Federal Women's Program. We don't have a Federal Men's Program. It should all be the same. You would have thought that I had taken the Lord's name in vain. I was really chastised for saying that. I thought it was fine for the program to highlight and get things going and make sure that women were taken care of, as they were climbing into this morass of engineering and operations. But my hope was that we'd get to a point we didn't need it, that it would all be the same. But I got in trouble for saying that. So one of my early lessons in politics. Not to say something should go away. Because then they say, “Well, she said we need to get rid of that.” That wasn't the point at all.\\n\\n But if you look back at—if you have the history stuff—you have access to all that. There's quite a bit in there, and quite a bit about what women have accomplished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have a list of folks we'd like to include in that book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bet. Because there were some—in fact I've lost track of a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was the most significant scientific accomplishments of the Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00282:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really can't. A little bit of stuff that I know, I probably shouldn't talk about. But I would say that—I won't call it national security. I'll call it our national priorities or whatever else. The space program has always been a very positive thing for our country, not just internally, but the rest of the world, we're known for our space program. The Russians are too, by the way, to quite an extent. I think that we have accomplished a great deal. A lot of people are still very excited about that and look up to us for having done it. I think that's very important. The national security issues, I won't comment on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have just a few minutes left, and I was curious if you could comment on this. I was doing some research about a year ago on Skylab and the wine controversy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a letter from you on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I was just curious if you had any involvement in that, since you were probably working with [G. Donald] Whedon and [Leo] Lutwak and their concerns. If you recall what the big debate was over, and your involvement in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of issues. You got a letter, I think, from Dr. [Paul C.] Rambaut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I got a little bit of information from him, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.35111568045686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just prior to the presidential election of 1992, I reorganized the leadership of the NASA Headquarters team and the leadership of a number of the 10 NASA Centers. The management team in place had a good understanding of the major tasks ahead. I left the details of implementation to the leadership team unless my guidance was required."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It also was intentional. Every piece was communicated down to every person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t believe it was as hierarchical as you insinuate in your question. I tried to be very visible on the core issues and asked the staff to communicate more detailed yet important issues with their direct reports. I also visited each of the NASA Centers to talk directly to the employees and to take their questions in both large groups and in groups of employees without and supervision present."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What steps did you take to make sure that that message became the number one message?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was passionate about the subject and used different venues and communication techniques. I visited each Center periodically and at my staff meetings made it a point to talk about safety and other banner issues for the Agency. Six weeks before Shuttle launch, I personally interviewed each and every astronaut on issues of crew safety and factors crucial to mission success. I tried not to tell people what to do but to just raise their consciousness on issues pertaining to safety and mission success.\\n\\n A few hours before each launch at Kennedy Space Center, I asked many of those in attendance that were at the Kennedy Center to watch the launch to understand that there are seven people on the Space Shuttle who would be risking their lives to help America open the space frontier. I told them that the odds are one in seventy-two that they may not come back. Also I told them that since I was in charge, I assumed responsibility and accountability if anything goes wrong and there is personal injury. I did this so the people at the control consoles on the ground and the astronauts on the controls in the Shuttle shouldn’t worry about being second guessed by investigators after the fact, while they must concentrate on making split second decisions to protect lives during the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier when you were talking about safety, you said it wasn’t just for human flight. You were also very interested in making sure the systems were safe."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.41168131749912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People could get hurt or die on the ground because we have high-temperature, high-pressure, we have complex systems. We could have explosions. We work with high voltage; people could get electrocuted. When one comes to the job, they ought to have the ability to go home, so clearly the complexity of the astronauts in real time is out there, but the people who work on the ground need to have confidence that safety systems are in place to protect their lives.\\n\\n There’s another aspect to it. I encouraged people to stop launches. Even if their concerns were later unfounded, there would be no retribution. I made it a point to give awards and congratulate people personally for stopping a launch if they were concerned about a safety issue. Schedule is not important, human lives are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share an example of one of those occurrences that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On one of the Shuttle launches, an employee was observing the launch tower and saw a pin hanging down that might have hit the Shuttle as it was taking off. The person requested a launch delay so the crew could remove the pin. When at NASA Kennedy, I asked for the name of the person who stopped the launch and gave him a special award in public. Safety first, schedule last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something so simple could have become so tragic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That Shuttle has 7,000,000 pounds of thrust lifting 4,000,000 pounds. By the time it hits the top of the tower, zero to 60 mph, that’s pretty fast for 4,000,000 pounds. When you have all that energy, the slightest flaw in operations could cause a very big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Earlier, you also mentioned that one of your thoughts when you were considering the job was that you felt that exploration should have a purpose, a scientific measurement."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 54.901868130554575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On one of the Shuttle launches, an employee was observing the launch tower and saw a pin hanging down that might have hit the Shuttle as it was taking off. The person requested a launch delay so the crew could remove the pin. When at NASA Kennedy, I asked for the name of the person who stopped the launch and gave him a special award in public. Safety first, schedule last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something so simple could have become so tragic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That Shuttle has 7,000,000 pounds of thrust lifting 4,000,000 pounds. By the time it hits the top of the tower, zero to 60 mph, that’s pretty fast for 4,000,000 pounds. When you have all that energy, the slightest flaw in operations could cause a very big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Earlier, you also mentioned that one of your thoughts when you were considering the job was that you felt that exploration should have a purpose, a scientific measurement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exploration should have a scientific underpinning as to why you’re undertaking the mission. Missions this early in the space exploration program should be driven by answering fundamental questions. I don’t believe exploration should occur just because we want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Share with us how you were able to maybe shape that belief in that concept while you were there as Administrator. How did you start to move the Agency into having that underpinning?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 71.71327748936459, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Russians forgot more about what it was to live in space than the Americans ever knew. We’d been to the Moon, but we weren’t familiar with orbital stations and associated operations. America operated Skylab years before Mir but didn’t have the depth of experience that Russia learned from the highly modular Mir, which was very close in concept to ISS. NASA astronauts and engineers learned many lessons valuable to the redesign of ISS and its operational plan once it was launched to orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about the Soyuz providing a dual capability because a Shuttle could go to Station, Soyuz could go to Station. There was a time during your tenure that you were hoping to introduce a new launch vehicle, or another capability with the X-33. Could you talk about your effort to bring that technology online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was concerned that as wonderful a machine as the Shuttle was, it was outdated in technology, it was expensive to operate, and we needed a new launch system that had significantly increased reliability and much lower operating cost.\\n\\n An open competition was run, and I think Lockheed Martin won with their single stage to orbit design. It was based on a rocket engine technology developed decades ago but never went to space, the linear aerospike engine. It used the vacuum of space as one of the boundaries on the rocket nozzle so you could have virtual nozzle area control as you’re going up to altitude to improve performance. There were other audacious technologies that offered up much promise.\\n\\n Unfortunately I was not able to get enough money appropriated for the program, only the one billion dollars that I was able to reprogram within the NASA budget. As a result, when Lockheed ran into technical difficulties, NASA didn’t have the financial resources to continue the effort to flight demonstration. Lockheed did an excellent job given the tight financial circumstances. To this day I regret not being able to reach out to the congress and White House to make the X-33 a reality. As NASA Administrator I must accept the responsibility for the failure of the X-33 program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close to the end of your tenure, you pulled together a Decadal Planning Team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your intent for that, or the mission for that group?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 79.68141943262732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was concerned that as wonderful a machine as the Shuttle was, it was outdated in technology, it was expensive to operate, and we needed a new launch system that had significantly increased reliability and much lower operating cost.\\n\\n An open competition was run, and I think Lockheed Martin won with their single stage to orbit design. It was based on a rocket engine technology developed decades ago but never went to space, the linear aerospike engine. It used the vacuum of space as one of the boundaries on the rocket nozzle so you could have virtual nozzle area control as you’re going up to altitude to improve performance. There were other audacious technologies that offered up much promise.\\n\\n Unfortunately I was not able to get enough money appropriated for the program, only the one billion dollars that I was able to reprogram within the NASA budget. As a result, when Lockheed ran into technical difficulties, NASA didn’t have the financial resources to continue the effort to flight demonstration. Lockheed did an excellent job given the tight financial circumstances. To this day I regret not being able to reach out to the congress and White House to make the X-33 a reality. As NASA Administrator I must accept the responsibility for the failure of the X-33 program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close to the end of your tenure, you pulled together a Decadal Planning Team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your intent for that, or the mission for that group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to leave those who followed me with thoughts to help them succeed in a very difficult job. The NASA team did a wonderful job in preparing the decadal plan. I’m very proud of them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you hoping one of those items to consider included finding a way to get to Mars?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 88.53491048069702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your intent for that, or the mission for that group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to leave those who followed me with thoughts to help them succeed in a very difficult job. The NASA team did a wonderful job in preparing the decadal plan. I’m very proud of them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you hoping one of those items to consider included finding a way to get to Mars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be wonderful and establishing that we could mine rare earths and precious metals on a near-Earth asteroid, which would be even more inspirational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we first started, you actually mentioned that that was one of the areas that you would have like to have pursued as well as going to Mars."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00850:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 31, "return_to_go": 98.37212275633001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to leave those who followed me with thoughts to help them succeed in a very difficult job. The NASA team did a wonderful job in preparing the decadal plan. I’m very proud of them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you hoping one of those items to consider included finding a way to get to Mars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be wonderful and establishing that we could mine rare earths and precious metals on a near-Earth asteroid, which would be even more inspirational."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we first started, you actually mentioned that that was one of the areas that you would have like to have pursued as well as going to Mars."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very open about it during my tenure. Why did I pick an asteroid? If one travels to the Moon, which is one-sixth the mass of the Earth, you need the extra energy for a controlled fall to power out of the Moon’s gravitational field on returning to Earth. If one travels to a near-Earth asteroid, it takes less energy because one has to only escape the Earth’s gravitational field, since asteroids are so small, they have negligible gravitational fields. Unlike the Moon, asteroids have highly concentrated quantities of precious metals, rare earths and important metals for building things. There’s one asteroid, whose name escapes me now, that has more water than planet Earth. There’s commercial and space exploration opportunities on the near-Earth asteroids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the areas that we haven’t had a chance to talk too much about is interest in going beyond low-Earth orbit into—to go back to your sign—the solar system. I know that you created the Origins Program so that we would have missions to possibly investigate the origins of the universe. Can you talk about the interests of that and some of the challenges of providing the path for that program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.274907388539498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of it. And running out of gas and getting hit up for bribes in Mexico City, um, which again, I learned from my mom, just be really, really, really loud and people don't like to be embarrassed. So she's like screaming, like shouting at the cop. What, sir? Are you telling me we have to pay a bribe? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that's the way things were going to be. And not only did we not pay a bribe, she got him in trouble. So anyway, so then we got back to the States, and I turned eight a month later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And therein, for the moment I'll refer maybe to Costa Rica at the end, but that is chapter one of my experience. And so the question that people always ask is, why did you go in? And so as I mentioned earlier, when I was eight, I mean, I said I was going to go, and it's not like I talked about it every year. But, you know, sometimes I would, I would bring it up. And so flash forward to undergrad. I went to undergraduate university at Emory University in Atlanta. I studied cultural anthropology. And I actually, and I immediately was like, oh yeah, I'm going to apply, I'm going to go to, after college for sure. But I wanted, I wanted to go to Africa because all of my anthropology studies were in Africa. And in its higher wisdom, Peace Corps sent me back to my neighborhood, as it were.\n\nAnd so I went about eight, ten months after I graduated from college, after also serving in the National Park Service, just like my father, for some months, here in D.C. Yep. Um, in fact, I wore his, one of his shirts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, when you left Costa Rica, you came back to D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is where you spent the intervening years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.305452653932775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And therein, for the moment I'll refer maybe to Costa Rica at the end, but that is chapter one of my experience. And so the question that people always ask is, why did you go in? And so as I mentioned earlier, when I was eight, I mean, I said I was going to go, and it's not like I talked about it every year. But, you know, sometimes I would, I would bring it up. And so flash forward to undergrad. I went to undergraduate university at Emory University in Atlanta. I studied cultural anthropology. And I actually, and I immediately was like, oh yeah, I'm going to apply, I'm going to go to, after college for sure. But I wanted, I wanted to go to Africa because all of my anthropology studies were in Africa. And in its higher wisdom, Peace Corps sent me back to my neighborhood, as it were.\n\nAnd so I went about eight, ten months after I graduated from college, after also serving in the National Park Service, just like my father, for some months, here in D.C. Yep. Um, in fact, I wore his, one of his shirts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, when you left Costa Rica, you came back to D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is where you spent the intervening years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we lived here. So we lived, actually, I guess I should say that this one thing, that when we came back, my language trauma was extreme. First of all, culture shock. I did not get the States and to some level, ever since then I never have, but the language. So here I was in D.C. public schools and I would say things that were literal translations of Spanish, made no sense. People would laugh because you know how kids are. And I'd come home. And of course my mother is a linguist, so she'd be like, she'd start laughing. She'd say, I'm laughing with you, not at you. This is fascinating. Let me take a note of this to, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, did you speak Spanish at home when you were in Costa Rica?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.450502948814194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is where you spent the intervening years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we lived here. So we lived, actually, I guess I should say that this one thing, that when we came back, my language trauma was extreme. First of all, culture shock. I did not get the States and to some level, ever since then I never have, but the language. So here I was in D.C. public schools and I would say things that were literal translations of Spanish, made no sense. People would laugh because you know how kids are. And I'd come home. And of course my mother is a linguist, so she'd be like, she'd start laughing. She'd say, I'm laughing with you, not at you. This is fascinating. Let me take a note of this to, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, did you speak Spanish at home when you were in Costa Rica?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. So they tried to speak English in the home to keep my non-existent, my sister's nascent English going. And then they tried to, and so they were. So it was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English was a second language for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.321608578782955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. So they tried to speak English in the home to keep my non-existent, my sister's nascent English going. And then they tried to, and so they were. So it was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "English was a second language for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yes, it is my second language. And so then when we got back to the States, they tried to institute Spanish at dinner, which for a year seemed somewhat normal, but by then I had gotten most of my English, and my sister and I had reestablished our relationship in English and our whole lives were in English. So then it felt just awkward and weird. So then we stopped that. But so we lived for about five, um, five. Let's see. No, no, more than that. Like all the way through junior high school, the end of junior high school, here. And then we moved to a tiny town in Texas on the Mexico border, Del Rio, when my father became assistant superintendent of a national park there. And, um, so, but I, because my language was laid down so early, it has never left me. And I mean, I translate for a living now, like for human rights and environmental and development, in community development organizations. So. So it came in handy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the, the, there was a lot of, you know, it didn't endear me to kids that first year. I was like, it's not the way it's done in Costa Rica, you know? And I didn't. So, yeah, it was, it was just, that was, that was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to learn a whole new culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.357342865314395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Yes, it is my second language. And so then when we got back to the States, they tried to institute Spanish at dinner, which for a year seemed somewhat normal, but by then I had gotten most of my English, and my sister and I had reestablished our relationship in English and our whole lives were in English. So then it felt just awkward and weird. So then we stopped that. But so we lived for about five, um, five. Let's see. No, no, more than that. Like all the way through junior high school, the end of junior high school, here. And then we moved to a tiny town in Texas on the Mexico border, Del Rio, when my father became assistant superintendent of a national park there. And, um, so, but I, because my language was laid down so early, it has never left me. And I mean, I translate for a living now, like for human rights and environmental and development, in community development organizations. So. So it came in handy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the, the, there was a lot of, you know, it didn't endear me to kids that first year. I was like, it's not the way it's done in Costa Rica, you know? And I didn't. So, yeah, it was, it was just, that was, that was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to learn a whole new culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it just, and it, there was things and like there were smells that I was used to having that I didn't have. There were tastes that I was just, there's just like an entire vibe which, you know, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And people were probably accustomed to luxuries that you never had when you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.786843043598019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it just, and it, there was things and like there were smells that I was used to having that I didn't have. There were tastes that I was just, there's just like an entire vibe which, you know, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And people were probably accustomed to luxuries that you never had when you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amenities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And of course, and my parents are very, very odd to begin with. I mean, we never had a TV. I didn't grow up with TV at any, like almost the entire time. And there was a lot of, you know, composting way before that was cool and organic garden and all this stuff. And so, but yeah, it was, it was a set of values that seemed to be very at odds with what I had experienced. And like language became the big, um, the most obvious manifestation of the problem in the sense that it was like every time I opened my mouth, I felt like I was talking this alien thing. Like it was like, I'm really not in Costa Rica anymore. Um. So and there are still things that are very hard for me to say in English that just seem more natural and better expressed in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever encountered other Peace Corps kids that had similar experience to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.096492270664465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amenities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And of course, and my parents are very, very odd to begin with. I mean, we never had a TV. I didn't grow up with TV at any, like almost the entire time. And there was a lot of, you know, composting way before that was cool and organic garden and all this stuff. And so, but yeah, it was, it was a set of values that seemed to be very at odds with what I had experienced. And like language became the big, um, the most obvious manifestation of the problem in the sense that it was like every time I opened my mouth, I felt like I was talking this alien thing. Like it was like, I'm really not in Costa Rica anymore. Um. So and there are still things that are very hard for me to say in English that just seem more natural and better expressed in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever encountered other Peace Corps kids that had similar experience to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, bizarrely, one time my sister and I were in a mall and I can't remember. It was somewhere like in Pentagon City, somewhere in the 'burbs of D.C., and she was visiting me. And so we were shopping and I saw this woman who was attending us, this young woman had a T- shirt on that said Costa Rica. So just to make conversation, I said, oh, that's so funny. My sister and I, the two of us lived there when we were in Peace Corps when we were little. And she said, so did I. And so here was someone who we had known as a kid, because the years were the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.965009973476633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or there was overlap. And we don't remember her, but it was like. But the thing is, is that when I swore in in 1991 for Honduras, Peace Corps headquarters told me I was the first one that had ever done it in that way. So there's people like my sister who served but don't have any desire to go as an adult, or people who were conceived in Peace Corps and then went as adult or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that had actually been, you know, my sister and I together were one adult, adult volunteer in terms of we each got half of a living allowance and half of the daily. So yeah, so I was told I was the first one at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To have done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. First one who went as a Peace Corps dependent."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.961122192751812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that had actually been, you know, my sister and I together were one adult, adult volunteer in terms of we each got half of a living allowance and half of the daily. So yeah, so I was told I was the first one at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To have done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. First one who went as a Peace Corps dependent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then went independently later on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.179024658613123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To have done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. First one who went as a Peace Corps dependent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then went independently later on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, that doesn't surprise me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.64336073179236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then went independently later on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, that doesn't surprise me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know how Peace Corps volunteers often kind of share some common bond, common experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.381511924213733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, that doesn't surprise me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know how Peace Corps volunteers often kind of share some common bond, common experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this subgroup, very small subgroup of Peace Corps children, that must be something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 27.090568804681926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you know how Peace Corps volunteers often kind of share some common bond, common experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this subgroup, very small subgroup of Peace Corps children, that must be something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, and I've since actually met. I just realized, I've met one other one recently, but he was at the very beginning of the program. So we went in '72. I feel like he may have gone like in '70. It was like, it was like a couple of years earlier or something and it was Africa, so it didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So tell us about your Honduras experience. So you applied and, as you mentioned, that you were the first Peace Corps dependent who then served as a volunteer. Peace Corps must have been really happy to have you. Did they try to get any PR off that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.02733926350314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, it's the kind of difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there was words and cultural things and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it's the kind of difference where you going to a bar five times would get the difference. I mean, you would never not understand. You'd be like, oh, that's a slang word. Like let's say people in Boston say wicked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, but you, you're not going to not understand when someone says, oh that was a wicked party. You're not going to think people were being mean to each other. I mean, you're going to, you know, so it's that kind of thing. And yeah, I mean, and there's obviously there's cultural things, but that was not the part I was asking to be out of. Like the cultural, I wanted to be, like, I love that stuff. Um. So. So, yeah. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the training site? Where did you do training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 24.474821403892378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it's the kind of difference where you going to a bar five times would get the difference. I mean, you would never not understand. You'd be like, oh, that's a slang word. Like let's say people in Boston say wicked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, but you, you're not going to not understand when someone says, oh that was a wicked party. You're not going to think people were being mean to each other. I mean, you're going to, you know, so it's that kind of thing. And yeah, I mean, and there's obviously there's cultural things, but that was not the part I was asking to be out of. Like the cultural, I wanted to be, like, I love that stuff. Um. So. So, yeah. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the name of the training site? Where did you do training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Valle de Angeles. Well, the second one, the language?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first. Well, both. The first place you ended up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.20442219767166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, to me, that was a major problem. So we got super tight. By the by, I was not getting tight with my, with my, with my group, not that I was, that I had problems with them. It's just that they built relationships which I don't know if last to this day, I wouldn't be surprised, but I didn't. And so, you know, when I would see them sometimes in Tegucigalpa, in the capital or for July 4th or, you know, we'd chitty chat. But there wasn't this like, oh God, I've got to come to your site and we got to like hook up and this and that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't unfriendly. It was just that wasn't your purpose for being there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. I was choosing to go and hang with my host, I saw that as part and parcel. Like I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I saw a lot of these things as both I wanted to do them because they're fun or nice, but also representational. Like there was also a lot of symbolism to me in Peace Corps. And one of the things, the second, the first, the second goal of Peace Corps is you have to be interacting and showing what gringos can be, ideally a good thing. And, you know, and building those relationships such that peace becomes something tangible. And so to me, I saw more value. I mean, to be very honest, I saw more value building the relationship. Now, I was very lucky that we happened to click with my family, like if it had been eh, then maybe that would have petered out after a little bit. But it was like every single day I wanted to hang out with Emelia and Nessandro, her brother, my, my brother, you know, and Dona Ella, the mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, having grown up in Costa Rica kind of made you feel more at home in that situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.116024664079625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. I was choosing to go and hang with my host, I saw that as part and parcel. Like I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I saw a lot of these things as both I wanted to do them because they're fun or nice, but also representational. Like there was also a lot of symbolism to me in Peace Corps. And one of the things, the second, the first, the second goal of Peace Corps is you have to be interacting and showing what gringos can be, ideally a good thing. And, you know, and building those relationships such that peace becomes something tangible. And so to me, I saw more value. I mean, to be very honest, I saw more value building the relationship. Now, I was very lucky that we happened to click with my family, like if it had been eh, then maybe that would have petered out after a little bit. But it was like every single day I wanted to hang out with Emelia and Nessandro, her brother, my, my brother, you know, and Dona Ella, the mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, having grown up in Costa Rica kind of made you feel more at home in that situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you, you really felt comfortable among your host family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.254351437135334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you, you really felt comfortable among your host family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, that's actually a very, very good question. I can't believe I didn't even address that earlier because there are, I feel to this day, way more comfortable in Latin America than I do here. Full stop. And I'm very, very touchy. I love to hug. I love to kiss. These are things that, and in the way I'm talking, you can't see it on the video. Everyone is listening, I mean, on the audio. But like, I'm moving my hands like a tornado and, yeah, and so Latin Americans constantly think that I'm from Latin America. They cannot believe I'm a gringo. And so when I hit Honduras, it was like fish in the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you is, uh, it's very common that people go to completely, a place where they have no concept of the experience, right? They go from Kansas to Tanzania or, you know, somewhere in the States to an island somewhere, you know. And it's a dramatic experience for them. But for you, Honduras was probably very similar to the place you'd grown up, the first five, the five years that your parents were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I, it was very, it was very similar. And I'd also gone back a number of times to Costa Rica, by the way, including a semester in college where I was living in Curridabat, my same village. How bizarre is that? I was living with a host family and that's where I was placed. But yeah. So to me, you know, now what I did try to be careful with was to say to myself, Emily, you didn't live in Honduras, so put your anthropology hat on and try to sense those differences. Like, don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't assume it's the same."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.244858157499365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was, it was very. It was in the southwest of the country in the Department of La Paz. And so a week, I don't know how other places do it, but in Honduras, like maybe a month-ish before we were going to be done with our training, we had to go, and by then they would say, okay, your site is going to be X, Y, zed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Figure out how to go there and go and find a place to live and kind of basically just introduce yourself and then you're going to spend a week there and then you come back. And so, um, I took the two very long bus rides there. So it was like about a, well, it had just. Anyway, it was about a five-ish hour bus ride from Tegucigalpa to the department seat of La Paz. And from there, a two and one half hour busito ride when in the dry season. I later learned in the rainy season it was quite a bit longer because sometimes you have to completely ford little creeks and whatever. But anyway, so I get there and the only place that I could. So there was strictures, right? I'm a single woman, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, I have to live, a little bit because of safety, but a lot of the stuff that has happened that we've all heard of had not happened yet. But it was more like respectability, like, oh you hussy, you're living by yourself? No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keep up appearances, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.840683343620526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So basically the only place and because my village had 300 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the only place was this one section of a family's home. And so, you know, that was going to be, oh, and I know I'm jumping around a bit, but I just want to say one comment that Peace Corps, my trainers, wanted to place me in La Ceiba, which is the third largest city on the north coast of Honduras. And they wanted me to be a beekeeping professor in the national university there, or the outgrowth or the outpost of the national university there. And I said absolutely not. I'm not here to come, to be in a city, to have that kind of job. I want to be in the bush. So luckily I, so, so that would that explains why I was placed in La Florida de Opatoro, in the Department of La Paz. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "La Florida?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "La Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the name of the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.489648159578362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the only place was this one section of a family's home. And so, you know, that was going to be, oh, and I know I'm jumping around a bit, but I just want to say one comment that Peace Corps, my trainers, wanted to place me in La Ceiba, which is the third largest city on the north coast of Honduras. And they wanted me to be a beekeeping professor in the national university there, or the outgrowth or the outpost of the national university there. And I said absolutely not. I'm not here to come, to be in a city, to have that kind of job. I want to be in the bush. So luckily I, so, so that would that explains why I was placed in La Florida de Opatoro, in the Department of La Paz. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "La Florida?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "La Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the name of the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, but you have to say the rest of it because there's three La Floridas. D-E, de, Opatoro, O-P-A-T-O-R-O, in the Department of La Paz. Um, yeah, I realized that when I was telling people I live in La Florida and they're like, cual, which one? I was like, what do you mean which one? So, so yeah. So that in that one week kind of towards the end of training, I went and I got my spot. And so then I was twinned with the IHCAFE, which is the Instituto Hondureño del Café, the Honduran Coffee Institute. So it's a governmental, um, entity that provides training to coffee makers and like, oh, there's a blight. We'll show you how to fix the blight in the coffee and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A coffee association."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.21072017730929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "La Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the name of the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then, but you have to say the rest of it because there's three La Floridas. D-E, de, Opatoro, O-P-A-T-O-R-O, in the Department of La Paz. Um, yeah, I realized that when I was telling people I live in La Florida and they're like, cual, which one? I was like, what do you mean which one? So, so yeah. So that in that one week kind of towards the end of training, I went and I got my spot. And so then I was twinned with the IHCAFE, which is the Instituto Hondureño del Café, the Honduran Coffee Institute. So it's a governmental, um, entity that provides training to coffee makers and like, oh, there's a blight. We'll show you how to fix the blight in the coffee and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A coffee association."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, but it was a governmental body and so IHCAFE. So I was twinned with them and I had a technical relationship with them. I mean, they had to okay my vacation slips, you know, sometimes I would do a little bit. But in the mean, right after I moved there, the IHCAFE office in my little village closed like within a month. So in the main, I was on my own. I found the beekeepers I worked with on my own. I kind of put the word out and people would come to my house and say, oh, I'm a beekeeper, you know? So. So I didn't really have a host country partner. Not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't report to anybody?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.865185428407802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, that's something technically I did, every now and then, because this guy was really nice. The one who when my, when the office of IHCAFE closed in La Florida, it kind of was absorbed. The one staffer there in the office of Marcala, which was the two and a half hour away place, the last bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was where there was a phone, when it worked, electricity and vegetables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And four other Peace Corps volunteers. And so, so I would, you know, when I was there, I'd go and I'd check in and they'd say, oh, how's the beekeeping? But it was, it was more like a friendly kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, you were pretty much on your own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.961317142675334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was where there was a phone, when it worked, electricity and vegetables."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And four other Peace Corps volunteers. And so, so I would, you know, when I was there, I'd go and I'd check in and they'd say, oh, how's the beekeeping? But it was, it was more like a friendly kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, you were pretty much on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for all intents and purposes, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other volunteers in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.06813015852815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And four other Peace Corps volunteers. And so, so I would, you know, when I was there, I'd go and I'd check in and they'd say, oh, how's the beekeeping? But it was, it was more like a friendly kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, you were pretty much on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for all intents and purposes, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other volunteers in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And there had not been any for about eight years prior. And those had been a married couple and it was kind of funny because the first thing you are told is, that you're told to do, is like find out who was there, what the rep was. Was it, you know, do you have to clean up anything, you know? So, like, oh, this was a super sweet couple. And, you know, we never could understand the man's Spanish. We didn't really understand why they were here, but they were real sweet. And I was like, okay, that could be worse. Not ideal. I mean, clearly they did not express through their work in any way what Peace Corps was about. Because every single person, even the gray hairs, learned what Peace Corps is about in Florida through me. Like I'd say, now that I'm telling you, does any of this ring a bell? Like, no. They just kind of wandered around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were nice, but we don't know what they were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 22.08137904024745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need to have an answer. And I thought, well, I know, I don't need to, I didn't have to think about this. This is, ah, because I want to save the world. I'm like, oh, my parents and Costa Rica, blah blah. So flash forward. I'm asked this and suddenly I'm like, [gasps]. And I got this wave of heat. And I was like, what am I doing here? How can I say what I'm doing here without hurting their dignity?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm here because you people don't know how to do your beekeeping. Like, no. Like how? And so I, I swallowed hard, took another couple of sips of my Coke, and I was like, well, you know, I have some book learning about beekeeping, and there's a lot of field experience here about beekeeping. So I figure if we put that together, that could be like the magic bullet. We could really, because there had been the, the Africanized bee had come up from South America and mostly unlettered farmers who were doing a ton of the beekeeping in Honduras, burnt thousands and thousands of hives wholesale out of fear. And so Honduras went from an exporting country to an importing country. So Peace Corps was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, they were afraid of those bees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Because suddenly the thing, the management techniques that they had used for years, some went like, wait a minute, they just stung and killed my chicken and my pig and the kid. And so, so, I said, so with that in mind, I said, you know, I know that there used to be a lot more hives here. And so I figure if we work together, maybe we can, you know. And I looked around and I paused and they're like, oh okay. And then I said, oh, you know, and it's Peace Corps. Well, and days after that, there were other questions like, am I cia? “Cia” meaning C-I-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.83797505414705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we just didn't even bring it up, especially because Pedro Daniele lived on land of Richie Rich's that was given to him, quote, for free. But of course, he's given like pathetic $2 a day wage. Anyway, so I got his, um, salary, his pay raised and his, and he's like, you know, Emelia? And this is one of the most beautiful things. We had the most amazing, amazing friendship. And he would say, I am seen more respectfully in town because you're my friend, because I have had third grade education. My wife has had none. My father had none. My girls are now, you know, in elementary. But you're my friend and you spend time talking to me. And of course, years later, when he would talk about when the postman would bring letters from me, he'd be like. And he wasn't like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lording it over people. He was just so proud. And I said, well, I'm proud to have you as my friend. You're, you're enriching my life. And so we had very, very deep conversations about, you know, I paid for his wife to get her tubes tied. Talk about, oh my God, that was actually against Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is probably something he never dreamed of, was having a friend from a foreign country, from America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a big deal."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.486638949052278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lording it over people. He was just so proud. And I said, well, I'm proud to have you as my friend. You're, you're enriching my life. And so we had very, very deep conversations about, you know, I paid for his wife to get her tubes tied. Talk about, oh my God, that was actually against Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is probably something he never dreamed of, was having a friend from a foreign country, from America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a big deal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Il Postino."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I haven't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.762932165613643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was a big deal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Il Postino."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I haven't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, The Postman. You know, it was about, it was about when, um, children author. Oh my God. Pablo Neruda left and he went to Italy, I guess, during the dirty wars in Chile. And so it's about this, this, he becomes friends with this very humble postman. And so in one scene, the postman, you know, Neruda is now gone. And he's written him a letter. And he just stares at the envelope and he looks it over and over and over. And he's like, this is the first letter I've ever gotten from someone. That is what Pedro told me. No, it was very intense. So my, so part of it was working with beekeepers, part of it was giving bee biology classes, like, don't be scared kids. This is, you know, this is a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were teaching children about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.181035739570714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Il Postino."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I haven't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, The Postman. You know, it was about, it was about when, um, children author. Oh my God. Pablo Neruda left and he went to Italy, I guess, during the dirty wars in Chile. And so it's about this, this, he becomes friends with this very humble postman. And so in one scene, the postman, you know, Neruda is now gone. And he's written him a letter. And he just stares at the envelope and he looks it over and over and over. And he's like, this is the first letter I've ever gotten from someone. That is what Pedro told me. No, it was very intense. So my, so part of it was working with beekeepers, part of it was giving bee biology classes, like, don't be scared kids. This is, you know, this is a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were teaching children about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About the biology of the bees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to go to the school and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.05621727644958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they are carrying a different pheromone from their queen. And these that are in the feral colony and the eaves have another. And then they, bam! And so they get into this massive, massive ball of fighting bees. The horse, right above the horses. The horses starts to like pull and pull. They scare the bees. The bees sting a couple of horses to death and one manages to get away, runs to a like a pond kind of thing, submerges. The bees can fly for quite a long time. They flew. They waited above the water. The thing comes up for air and they stung that horse too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whoa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm like, oh, oh my God. This is the worst possible thing. So I was like, okay, we're going to have some talks everyone, okay? We're going to talk about feral colonies and everything. And I was like, these are not my bees. There's nothing about these bees that are mine. I've never had, you know. So that was a little traumatic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I, but all these things, I address them straight on. I was like, don't, you know, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they weren't going to execute you right there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.840241418277312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm like, oh, oh my God. This is the worst possible thing. So I was like, okay, we're going to have some talks everyone, okay? We're going to talk about feral colonies and everything. And I was like, these are not my bees. There's nothing about these bees that are mine. I've never had, you know. So that was a little traumatic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I, but all these things, I address them straight on. I was like, don't, you know, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they weren't going to execute you right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Throw you in jail for killing horses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.21527682197897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I was very, oh God, it took forever, it took forever. Um, so that was. And then another thing. See, I'm just, sorry. I'm really. And then another thing is my mother and I cooked up a way to get good medicine to my little clinic. I got to be very close with the clinic there. And the way it works as a village that small would never have a dentist or a doctor. But they do their servicio social, their social service to get their degrees. They have to go one or two years into the bush. So we got, you know, national level medical professionals for brief, you know, for a year, two years at a time. So I got to be totally buddies with them. So my mom went around to all the doctors' offices and clinics and hospitals in Santa Fe and was like, hey, I know you got like all these, like, like, let's say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Samples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Samples of Advil or whatever, give them to me. And gave this whole story about me. And so I went there on a trip and I came back with massive amounts of drugs. I mean, like legal, I mean, medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, coming in through customs was a little challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.0169742466433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Samples of Advil or whatever, give them to me. And gave this whole story about me. And so I went there on a trip and I came back with massive amounts of drugs. I mean, like legal, I mean, medicine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, coming in through customs was a little challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I happen to have, I have a big, big, um, wound on my leg where I got hit by a car when I was 16. So drama queen Goldman here, they're like seeing it and there's like purple pills and pink pills and green. I mean, there's like, it's like, my, my, I had a suitcase filled with medicine, with gauze, with Band-Aids, with paper tape. I mean, every pocket. Gloves, because they would use the same pair of gloves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.907749162937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, coming in through customs was a little challenging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I happen to have, I have a big, big, um, wound on my leg where I got hit by a car when I was 16. So drama queen Goldman here, they're like seeing it and there's like purple pills and pink pills and green. I mean, there's like, it's like, my, my, I had a suitcase filled with medicine, with gauze, with Band-Aids, with paper tape. I mean, every pocket. Gloves, because they would use the same pair of gloves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started like, oh my God, to the, to the border and to the customs. I know, it's horrible. I have to take all this medicine. My leg, it's horrible. I have to take the pink ones in the morning. And then, and I was going on, and they're like, okay, senorita. Okay. And I was like, so I got through. I didn't have to pay any customs. And so with the only stricture that the wealthy people in the village, Richie Rich's family, were not allowed to have any of that. That was the one thing that was made. My mother and I were like, this is not, they can afford it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They can buy it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00138:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.1097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, first of all, they would always say, where is your mother? Why are you here without your mother? And I'd be like, my mother is with my father, which of course was not answering what they were really saying. But they're like, why would you be coming here? You're not married. That's weird enough as it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who let you come here alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but so the drinking situation. So sometimes I would have, you know, beers or whatever with other Peace Corps volunteers in Tegucigalpa. But in my site I was, again, symbolism was so important. I was like, I will not be caught at any point with any alcohol. Like, I don't want them to. I don't, there's enough things that they might think were weird."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You don't want to jeopardize your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the only two times that liquor passed my lips in that village are both kind of cool. One was it was my first birthday. My birthday's in June, and I swore in, I mean, I got there in May, so I should say my second, technically my second birthday. Well, yes. And in my site. So I had been there a year. By then Blanca Rose Marie Martinez was my best female friend. And so she, you know, she had been raised a bit in Tegucigalpa and she had gone to college in Tegucigalpa. So she kind of was a bigger town person. But all of her family, you know, but she lived there all her life, mostly other than college time. So she's like, Emilia. And she's like whispering. She's like, we have to celebrate your birthday. And then she suddenly pulls out this, is a fifth a little bottle like this? Is that which you call a fifth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, a fifth would be bigger than that. Maybe a pint."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00330:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 60.11249957586109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. That was an exciting time. And both of us looked at each other and we got these kind of sneaky grins on our faces as we’re looking, going, “They would never let us do this, but let’s go try it.” And “Crip” let us do it, so that was pretty neat, too. We had a neat crew. The crew was really a lot of fun, because we really melded and meshed well together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a few more questions about the mission. This was the first mission in which a woman was supposed to go out on the first spacewalk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there were two women on the flight as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the media react to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00330:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 80.29348435343711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I feel like I could go back up if I had to, and refuel. Now, of course, there’s always the problem of rendezvousing with the satellite and grappling it and getting positioned and all that, and then carrying the fuel up with you. I think they decided that by the time you cost the training and the Shuttle flight itself, it would be cheaper or as cheap to launch another satellite. But it can be done. If we ever decide to do it, it can be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about your next flight. Your next flight was very different from this first flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was actually a classified mission with the Department of Defense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us how it was different, or compare and contrast to the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00330:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 64.08631385942536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably is a little bit in the training time frame, because you’re going to end up training as a team, and maybe one day the red team has their sim [simulation] and the blue team has it the next day. When you’re done, you ask you training team, “Well, how did we do compared to those guys?”\\n\\n There’s always that natural competitiveness, but nothing that ever gets kind of vicious or anything, and you’ve all got the same mission, to make your mission as successful as you possibly can. That’s the one thing you want to do. And so we were all working toward that purpose. So that worked out very, very well. I think a lot of attention has to be made into crew selections and how they’re made, and we’ll probably get into that later. Because I think that’s very, very important for the success of the mission as it goes on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also mentioned that you got to serve as commander, essentially, when you were in charge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On orbit, anyway. Didn’t get to land it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you at least got to maneuver it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of this, were you in charge of any experiments on board the orbiter?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00330:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 67.87368206602818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On orbit, anyway. Didn’t get to land it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you at least got to maneuver it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of this, were you in charge of any experiments on board the orbiter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was backup on most of the experiments, on a lot of them. I did some mid-deck-type experiments, some eye experiments. For Helen [W.] Lane, in Space and Life Sciences, I drew blood samples, and Henry did some nutritional-type studies and things like that. But as far as the payload bay experiments, no, those were the payload specialists’ and Mike Foale’s and Kathy’s responsibility, and I was responsible for the orbiter.\\n\\n So I had to spend a lot of my time in training learning about the orbiter and the orbiter systems and how to operate them, and emergency procedures and all the stuff that goes with that. Because when I was on board, I was probably the only orbiter person on my shift, so I had to be ready for that. Of course, I mean, five feet away is Charlie and Brian, if I ever need them for anything, so it’s no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you actually did spend a good deal of time working on the SAREX experiment. Can you tell us about the experiment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00330:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.030000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The last one’s a quick one. You mentioned your call sign when you were talking with the ham operators. Did you have a specific sign you used all the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was N5WQC. That’s my ham radio license number, and that’s what you use. N5WQC. And I haven’t done much ham radio operating at all since that flight, but that was really a lot of fun. I enjoyed that a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything else that you would like talk about? Something that we may have missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just, one of the things that I was involved in was the selection of John [H.] Glenn to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, let’s talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.15539964963204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, right now, I run an auto parts store in the little town of Galena, Kansas. And that basically is what I do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, then think back to when you went into the Peace Corps. What were you doing the year before you went in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in high school when I went in. I was one of the eighteen year olds that went into the Peace Corps. We first found out about Peace Corps through our vocational agriculture teacher who right before we graduated told us there was a new program that had come out, was started, and that some of us might be interested in. The more he talked about it, the more interested I got. Because at that particular time, I really didn't want to go on to college at that point when I got out of school, but we were young, we were idealistic, and we thought we could go out and change the world. And this was at the time Kennedy was in as president. We just had a lot of sense of adventure and wanted to see what was going on in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like a good reason. You already talked about how you heard about the Peace Corps and what you did and what made you decide to go, and did you have any particular country or any place that you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "South America and always had a calling for me. I didn't have any particular country at all. I just returned from south. I really can't tell you why. South America appealed so much, but that was my desire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, now after you join Peace Corps, what did your family have to say? Were they surprised or are they happy? Did they wonder what the heck was going on or what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.283777388480047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in high school when I went in. I was one of the eighteen year olds that went into the Peace Corps. We first found out about Peace Corps through our vocational agriculture teacher who right before we graduated told us there was a new program that had come out, was started, and that some of us might be interested in. The more he talked about it, the more interested I got. Because at that particular time, I really didn't want to go on to college at that point when I got out of school, but we were young, we were idealistic, and we thought we could go out and change the world. And this was at the time Kennedy was in as president. We just had a lot of sense of adventure and wanted to see what was going on in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like a good reason. You already talked about how you heard about the Peace Corps and what you did and what made you decide to go, and did you have any particular country or any place that you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "South America and always had a calling for me. I didn't have any particular country at all. I just returned from south. I really can't tell you why. South America appealed so much, but that was my desire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, now after you join Peace Corps, what did your family have to say? Were they surprised or are they happy? Did they wonder what the heck was going on or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't seem surprised about it at all, but they were very supportive. That is what I wanted to do. That was fine with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you joined, were you and were there was there any were there any reservations on your part? Like, what did I get myself into?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.093085987200052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "South America and always had a calling for me. I didn't have any particular country at all. I just returned from south. I really can't tell you why. South America appealed so much, but that was my desire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, now after you join Peace Corps, what did your family have to say? Were they surprised or are they happy? Did they wonder what the heck was going on or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't seem surprised about it at all, but they were very supportive. That is what I wanted to do. That was fine with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you joined, were you and were there was there any were there any reservations on your part? Like, what did I get myself into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think we had time to have any reservations because the when we got our invitation, everything seemed to happen somewhere. But the first thing I know, we got an invitation to take up our training at Arizona State University, out of Tempe, Arizona. All of this happened right after I graduated and we started our training in June, so there really wasn't much time to really get too many second thoughts. Just the excitement of getting to go and see if an 18 year old could make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.103428874666722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't seem surprised about it at all, but they were very supportive. That is what I wanted to do. That was fine with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you joined, were you and were there was there any were there any reservations on your part? Like, what did I get myself into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think we had time to have any reservations because the when we got our invitation, everything seemed to happen somewhere. But the first thing I know, we got an invitation to take up our training at Arizona State University, out of Tempe, Arizona. All of this happened right after I graduated and we started our training in June, so there really wasn't much time to really get too many second thoughts. Just the excitement of getting to go and see if an 18 year old could make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were invited to join Bolivia II rural development project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what did you do, any preparation before you went in because you were going to be gone for a couple of years or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.448254305185245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think we had time to have any reservations because the when we got our invitation, everything seemed to happen somewhere. But the first thing I know, we got an invitation to take up our training at Arizona State University, out of Tempe, Arizona. All of this happened right after I graduated and we started our training in June, so there really wasn't much time to really get too many second thoughts. Just the excitement of getting to go and see if an 18 year old could make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what project were you invited to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were invited to join Bolivia II rural development project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what did you do, any preparation before you went in because you were going to be gone for a couple of years or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no preparation before I went in other than just what we had learned in our vocational agricultural experience on the farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, can you tell me a little bit about the training, where it took place, who the faculty were, anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 37.164727005761385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were invited to join Bolivia II rural development project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and what did you do, any preparation before you went in because you were going to be gone for a couple of years or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no preparation before I went in other than just what we had learned in our vocational agricultural experience on the farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, can you tell me a little bit about the training, where it took place, who the faculty were, anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember the name of all of the faculty. The training took place, our first cycle was at Arizona State University. When we arrived there, they put us up in the dorms, the old athletic dorms, and there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about training and you had got to Tempe, Arizona."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.183030006401538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no preparation before I went in other than just what we had learned in our vocational agricultural experience on the farm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, can you tell me a little bit about the training, where it took place, who the faculty were, anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember the name of all of the faculty. The training took place, our first cycle was at Arizona State University. When we arrived there, they put us up in the dorms, the old athletic dorms, and there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about training and you had got to Tempe, Arizona."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Tempe, Arizona, they put a in the athletic dorms there. The first part of it, we went through a series of tests that, psychological and for what particular purpose I’m not sure. But I know that at the end of the cycle, we went through them again, so I say this for probably some kind of an experiment so they can see what kind of changes might have occurred over the years, the experience. People there had had set us up to work out on the Indian reservation also. We're going to spend the first month at the university and the second month they're going to stay at the Indian reservation, out on Baseline Road, just west of Phoenix. So Ben Bracken and I went, two 18 year olds had both been school bus drivers in school, so. We were assigned to ride the busses to take the group to and from the Indian reservation. We’d get up at three o'clock in the morning, go get the busses, come back to the dorm, pick everybody up and drive out to the Indian reservation. And we'd get off the busses. We would go run, do our physical exercise. We'd run a mile before breakfast, after breakfast in the community room. And then we would do different classes, do whatever training we had that was still going in. Also, part of our field training, we're setting up our creditors and we will go live in. Well, we were on the Indian reservation. And we took our area studies there, surveying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by area studies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.3621810787401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the area studies they had the anthropologists and people that were familiar with where we were going in Bolivia, they'd come in and give us lessons on what to expect when we got to. What the topography was, what the people were like. And I think that we need know. Then after we would finish out on the desert, because this was in June and very hot, so around noon, we would load back up, go back into the university, have our lunch in the cafeteria there, and then we would have our language studies and other studies in our last class and at about nine o'clock at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All day long. What was that the only training that you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, after Arizona State then we went to the Peace Corps training camp in Arecibo, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there seems to be a lot of it, I think, for your confidence building, of course, that's where we had a lot of survival training. We had to spend the night in the jungle by ourselves after the. We walk across the island of farther away from point A to point B and different groups, and we took drown proofing courses where we had to swim in the ocean for a mile in coveralls. We had to be able to stay afloat in a swimming pool for at least 30 minutes with our hands tied behind our back. This was just generally a confidence building course, but of course, that was after the training we had in Arizona State University. This was more or less a picnic. We enjoyed it. We did the rock climbing there and rappelling. And we encountered snails."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the only place that you went in, in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.402423420822334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, after Arizona State then we went to the Peace Corps training camp in Arecibo, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there seems to be a lot of it, I think, for your confidence building, of course, that's where we had a lot of survival training. We had to spend the night in the jungle by ourselves after the. We walk across the island of farther away from point A to point B and different groups, and we took drown proofing courses where we had to swim in the ocean for a mile in coveralls. We had to be able to stay afloat in a swimming pool for at least 30 minutes with our hands tied behind our back. This was just generally a confidence building course, but of course, that was after the training we had in Arizona State University. This was more or less a picnic. We enjoyed it. We did the rock climbing there and rappelling. And we encountered snails."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the only place that you went in, in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we have a training camp in Puerto Rico, we went to the college at Mayaguez, the agricultural college there, where we took a study of tropical plants and also more Spanish. Because Spanish was the language that we were going to use. Which later, when we got to country, we found out that not only a lot of the people, Spanish was their second language and Quechua and Aymara were their first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so in hindsight, did the training prepare you for what you were going to expect in Bolivia, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 33.78047046758037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there seems to be a lot of it, I think, for your confidence building, of course, that's where we had a lot of survival training. We had to spend the night in the jungle by ourselves after the. We walk across the island of farther away from point A to point B and different groups, and we took drown proofing courses where we had to swim in the ocean for a mile in coveralls. We had to be able to stay afloat in a swimming pool for at least 30 minutes with our hands tied behind our back. This was just generally a confidence building course, but of course, that was after the training we had in Arizona State University. This was more or less a picnic. We enjoyed it. We did the rock climbing there and rappelling. And we encountered snails."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the only place that you went in, in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we have a training camp in Puerto Rico, we went to the college at Mayaguez, the agricultural college there, where we took a study of tropical plants and also more Spanish. Because Spanish was the language that we were going to use. Which later, when we got to country, we found out that not only a lot of the people, Spanish was their second language and Quechua and Aymara were their first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so in hindsight, did the training prepare you for what you were going to expect in Bolivia, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the training probably helped prepare us for what went on in Bolivia. There was a lot of things that the only way you could really learn to them was to be in-country where they were taking place, but I think it gave me the confidence to go in and do what you had to do in an environment that was unfamiliar to me. And made that environment a little less unfamiliar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, let's go back to. After that, then what happened, did you go to Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.332831073891743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, I wasn't too sure of what was going to happen when we got to Brattleboro. They gave us more Spanish. And here it is, so we're wandering around in our shirtsleeves. But after we've been there a couple of weeks, there was another group getting ready to come in that was going to the Dominican Republic, a group of teachers. And our reputation preceded us to Brattleboro, so they came in and the weekend that the group was to arrive, they took us for a weekend in Boston. So that they could talk to the other group before we did, we were known to be a vocal group and sometimes hostile due the extreme training we’d had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. OK, so then eventually you got to Bolivia, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually, we did. In November."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what when you got there, what was your initial reaction? What did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first initial reaction was come in. We were flying out of we came out of Lima, Peru, up over the mountains. The mountains are approximately 400 miles wide in that area. And when we come up on the Altiplano as we were landing in La Paz, you were flying over terrain that had no trees. You could see the little villages below the farms, but the rock fences made up, so they grew potatoes. There was no vegetation inside anymore. And I looked out over the vast acres of nothingness and I thought, oh, my word, and I'm going to be here for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little sobering thought there. So what about the project, the Peace Corps staff, the local people, when you find it? Where were you finally assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.48092341543527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually, we did. In November."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what when you got there, what was your initial reaction? What did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first initial reaction was come in. We were flying out of we came out of Lima, Peru, up over the mountains. The mountains are approximately 400 miles wide in that area. And when we come up on the Altiplano as we were landing in La Paz, you were flying over terrain that had no trees. You could see the little villages below the farms, but the rock fences made up, so they grew potatoes. There was no vegetation inside anymore. And I looked out over the vast acres of nothingness and I thought, oh, my word, and I'm going to be here for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little sobering thought there. So what about the project, the Peace Corps staff, the local people, when you find it? Where were you finally assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was finally assigned, when we got in after we had our in- country briefing at La Paz, we drove from there to Cochabamba and I was assigned to a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was that ride?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.08991490603919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first initial reaction was come in. We were flying out of we came out of Lima, Peru, up over the mountains. The mountains are approximately 400 miles wide in that area. And when we come up on the Altiplano as we were landing in La Paz, you were flying over terrain that had no trees. You could see the little villages below the farms, but the rock fences made up, so they grew potatoes. There was no vegetation inside anymore. And I looked out over the vast acres of nothingness and I thought, oh, my word, and I'm going to be here for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little sobering thought there. So what about the project, the Peace Corps staff, the local people, when you find it? Where were you finally assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was finally assigned, when we got in after we had our in- country briefing at La Paz, we drove from there to Cochabamba and I was assigned to a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was that ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a good day's ride for a short distance, up and down and around in the mountains. We had no idea what it was going to be like before we finally came into Cochabamba valley. This was the breadbasket of Bolivia. In the Cochabamba valley you’re about eight thousand, nine hundred feet up into the mountains. The climate, you have about a 70 degree mean temperature year round and they raise anything there from vegetables to wheat, oranges, lemons. All kinds of crops. Everything was irrigated by artesian wells. A very, very, very lovely climate, and the place that I was assigned to work was called Quillacollo, the Quillacollo province, which was approximately, oh, I would say 10 or 15 miles west of Cochabamba. I worked with one of the agricultural extension agents in rural development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us specifically on that job what kinds of things you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.65546100671021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was finally assigned, when we got in after we had our in- country briefing at La Paz, we drove from there to Cochabamba and I was assigned to a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long was that ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a good day's ride for a short distance, up and down and around in the mountains. We had no idea what it was going to be like before we finally came into Cochabamba valley. This was the breadbasket of Bolivia. In the Cochabamba valley you’re about eight thousand, nine hundred feet up into the mountains. The climate, you have about a 70 degree mean temperature year round and they raise anything there from vegetables to wheat, oranges, lemons. All kinds of crops. Everything was irrigated by artesian wells. A very, very, very lovely climate, and the place that I was assigned to work was called Quillacollo, the Quillacollo province, which was approximately, oh, I would say 10 or 15 miles west of Cochabamba. I worked with one of the agricultural extension agents in rural development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us specifically on that job what kinds of things you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of times you would do things that weren't necessarily rural development because sometimes you would go into a town. We did a lot of 4S clubs, which are the same as 4H clubs. We were with a group called Heifer Project, they were our sponsors. And Heifer Project, what they do is they brought animals in from the United States and they were sent up to where you would give one of the qualifying people an animal, and then when they reproduced, they would give you back one or two animals, that would be passed on to somebody else. So it was an ongoing program with trying to upgrade some of the bloodlines of the sheep and the pigs and the dairy cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you living? Did you live by yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.172734451900233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a good day's ride for a short distance, up and down and around in the mountains. We had no idea what it was going to be like before we finally came into Cochabamba valley. This was the breadbasket of Bolivia. In the Cochabamba valley you’re about eight thousand, nine hundred feet up into the mountains. The climate, you have about a 70 degree mean temperature year round and they raise anything there from vegetables to wheat, oranges, lemons. All kinds of crops. Everything was irrigated by artesian wells. A very, very, very lovely climate, and the place that I was assigned to work was called Quillacollo, the Quillacollo province, which was approximately, oh, I would say 10 or 15 miles west of Cochabamba. I worked with one of the agricultural extension agents in rural development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us specifically on that job what kinds of things you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of times you would do things that weren't necessarily rural development because sometimes you would go into a town. We did a lot of 4S clubs, which are the same as 4H clubs. We were with a group called Heifer Project, they were our sponsors. And Heifer Project, what they do is they brought animals in from the United States and they were sent up to where you would give one of the qualifying people an animal, and then when they reproduced, they would give you back one or two animals, that would be passed on to somebody else. So it was an ongoing program with trying to upgrade some of the bloodlines of the sheep and the pigs and the dairy cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you living? Did you live by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Todd Wolf, our coordinator, he set us up to live with families, our group in Cochabamba. I lived with the Michelle family. We lived in Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was that like, living with a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.636371613222481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of times you would do things that weren't necessarily rural development because sometimes you would go into a town. We did a lot of 4S clubs, which are the same as 4H clubs. We were with a group called Heifer Project, they were our sponsors. And Heifer Project, what they do is they brought animals in from the United States and they were sent up to where you would give one of the qualifying people an animal, and then when they reproduced, they would give you back one or two animals, that would be passed on to somebody else. So it was an ongoing program with trying to upgrade some of the bloodlines of the sheep and the pigs and the dairy cows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you living? Did you live by yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Todd Wolf, our coordinator, he set us up to live with families, our group in Cochabamba. I lived with the Michelle family. We lived in Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was that like, living with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a very pleasant experience because it's aimed at that particular age that I was, the family that I lived with that had a son that was about my age, that had gone to the States and that momma Michelle and papa Michelle, and my Bolivian sister. They were all just like family. It didn't take long for us to settle into a routine. The family life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that that living arrangement helped?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.262635125802756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Todd Wolf, our coordinator, he set us up to live with families, our group in Cochabamba. I lived with the Michelle family. We lived in Cochabamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what was that like, living with a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was a very pleasant experience because it's aimed at that particular age that I was, the family that I lived with that had a son that was about my age, that had gone to the States and that momma Michelle and papa Michelle, and my Bolivian sister. They were all just like family. It didn't take long for us to settle into a routine. The family life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that that living arrangement helped?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, absolutely that arrangement helped. We were living with the people and it helped you have much more understanding about their point of view, home things. A lot of times here we don't look at cultural differences or. And I think that that gave me an understanding, a better understanding, you know, of how alike all people are and the differences people have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what can you tell me a little bit about, say, a typical day or relationships that you had with any of the people there in your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.33008933580625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a typical day, you're going to work as a started off, when you when we first got there, as we would go around and visit the different farmers. Since the agrarian reform in Bolivia, a lot of the farmers at that time have been given two hectares, which is approximately five acres. And they raised enough food to feed their family. To them, a bicycle, a pair of sunglasses and a transistor radio was the top of the world as far as status symbol was concerned. And the only thing that they cared about raising at that particular point above and beyond what they needed was what they wanted to take to market, and that's where a lot of their socialization was in the marketplace. And when you first started out going around the countryside to the people, I worked with an agricultural agent there and as we made our rounds during the day, there were times you would come by when the people were setting down to eat or something and when they first knew you, you know, you just had pleasantries and went on your way. And as they got to know you, pretty soon you'd be invited to lunch. And if there was one piece of meat in the soup you got that piece of meat, as a courtesy. And in the country, there are a lot of the food was served, you ate out of a common bowl. Which fortunately, I'm one of these people, but I have no problem with food. So I fit in very well with that, and when you knew you'd finally arrived and was accepted into the community is when you come driving down the road and they would come wave you over and invite you in to eat with them without special invitation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as job goes, you might go into a town and we would be doing something. One schoolteacher might come over and say, would you come over and give English lessons. So you would end up on the school doing English tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of whatever was needed at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just whatever at the time, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any particular people that you either met or worked with that really stood out in your mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.366765928673612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as job goes, you might go into a town and we would be doing something. One schoolteacher might come over and say, would you come over and give English lessons. So you would end up on the school doing English tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of whatever was needed at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just whatever at the time, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any particular people that you either met or worked with that really stood out in your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that are you referring to, people that I worked with or trying to help?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Either worked with or trying to help. Any of those."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.074184365192902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just whatever at the time, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you think of any particular people that you either met or worked with that really stood out in your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that are you referring to, people that I worked with or trying to help?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Either worked with or trying to help. Any of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, looking back on experiences and people, I remember that we went through a growing season demonstration. Everything in Bolivia, or in the Cochabamba, was a union. Even the founders of the unions, for their local unions, for the farmers and for one group we were doing an experiment in wheat. We took a growing season, we planted one test plot of the native wheat they had used for years and years and years and without fertilizer. We did a test of that with fertilizer. Then we brought a new variety in from Mexico. And we did that one without fertilizer and one with fertilizer. The changing of the seed alone, the variety that was grown, almost doubled the production. After the growing season, we did our measurements and we calculated this out and explained to the group how much more wheat they could raise on that property, how much more profit they can make out of it. And the head of the local union after we finished this experiment, got up and he said, this is all well and good, he said, we thank you very kindly for showing us how we can make this money, but we just have one question. What is that? Why do we want to make more money? So that's a hard question to answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is a hard question to answer. OK, so you talked about your work. So what did you do in your off time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.918256900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember the first year, this was about the time that President Kennedy was assassinated. I can remember I came in from work that day in the country because we haven't had the news out in the provinces and Mama Michelle was crying and wanted to know if we're going to have to leave and go home. We didn't know what she was talking about. And she told us that the council, to go to the council. We went down to the council and that’s when we got word that Kennedy had been shot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you how did that affect you as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a group, I think it was a sad time for everybody, but it was one thing that the people of Bolivia. It affected them, I think as much as it affected us. They thought very highly of President Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else that you can remember in the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember back to the end of the first year, that was a notable thing that happened that I remember. But by the end of the first year, I think we had settled in and were very comfortable. We had established our life, our work habits, our socialization, our friends. It was no different, I don't think, as if we'd been here in the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any health problems or anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.575841000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a group, I think it was a sad time for everybody, but it was one thing that the people of Bolivia. It affected them, I think as much as it affected us. They thought very highly of President Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else that you can remember in the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember back to the end of the first year, that was a notable thing that happened that I remember. But by the end of the first year, I think we had settled in and were very comfortable. We had established our life, our work habits, our socialization, our friends. It was no different, I don't think, as if we'd been here in the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any health problems or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I am a person who likes my food very well. I had made up my mind. And I can remember, a lot of times that we were given instructions on the cleanliness of food, what to eat, what not to eat. The families of the. I can remember the first time that I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about health problems. You were talking about your eating in different places."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, I was 18 when we went in and 20 when we got out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, so if you were doing it 10 years later, or even five or six years later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I were doing it five or six years later. But like I say, sometimes you had to have that knowledge of what was going on and having lived it in order to see where the needs were and where the differences were. We tried to equate everything on our standards and on what we do, without knowing what's in the culture, what's acceptable, what's not acceptable, what's needed, what's not needed. Because the things we may think are important to them aren’t important. And the things that are important to them, to us may hold little importance. And it takes time to learn how these things relate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "True. OK, did you when you got out of the Peace Corps, did you have any plans for the future? What did you what were you thinking you might do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that particular point? You know, I really didn’t. When I got out of the Peace Corps, I went back and helped my dad on the farm for a while. And then I moved to Oklahoma City and worked as a traveling salesman for a while. And after that I got drafted and went through the army, served in Turkey. When I got out of the army, I ended up going to Joplin, Missouri, and went to work for a church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think that being in the Peace Corps helped you to be able to adapt to Turkey, a different culture and all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel like it did allow that. Because we did provide technical assistance wherever we could. And I think we helped them understand us a little better, because through dealing and living with the people, it was much easier to have a better understanding of how they thought, and I'm sure they had a better understanding of how we thought. That we don't always. Our goals aren't always the same. It’s like one the Bolivian boys told me before I left the country. He said there is one difference between us Latinos and you Americans. Oh, what’s that? And he said, us Latinos, we work to live. But he said, you Americans live to work. And I got to thinking about that, a little bit of truth in that statement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So over the years since you got out, have you continued any involvement in Peace Corps or with Bolivia or in Peace Corps activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as probably what I should have. But I have kept in contact with my Bolivian sister. And then all of my Peace Corps friends, we have a reunion about every two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have been the organizer of that, I might add, in the last few years. OK, so did being in the Peace Corps change you, your career plans or what your goals would have been or just what happened, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the best way that I could answer that question is when I arrived back at home and I had met with one of my friends. After I've been home for a little while and we were talking and I said, you know, it's really something, everybody has changed so much since I've been gone. And she looked at me and kind of laughed and said, no Larry, it’s not us that have changed, it’s you that has changed. So I guess there must have been some good in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you think was the major change that came about? I mean, you come from a small middle America town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as probably what I should have. But I have kept in contact with my Bolivian sister. And then all of my Peace Corps friends, we have a reunion about every two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have been the organizer of that, I might add, in the last few years. OK, so did being in the Peace Corps change you, your career plans or what your goals would have been or just what happened, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the best way that I could answer that question is when I arrived back at home and I had met with one of my friends. After I've been home for a little while and we were talking and I said, you know, it's really something, everybody has changed so much since I've been gone. And she looked at me and kind of laughed and said, no Larry, it’s not us that have changed, it’s you that has changed. So I guess there must have been some good in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you think was the major change that came about? I mean, you come from a small middle America town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that those. My look at the world was different now. My world included the whole world, whereas a lot of the kids that stayed at home, their whole life would have been the boundaries of the community. That I think it broadened my outlook on life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is sort of related. We began to talk about this a little bit earlier, but when you came back, did you have a hard time adjusting because of those changes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00248:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the best way that I could answer that question is when I arrived back at home and I had met with one of my friends. After I've been home for a little while and we were talking and I said, you know, it's really something, everybody has changed so much since I've been gone. And she looked at me and kind of laughed and said, no Larry, it’s not us that have changed, it’s you that has changed. So I guess there must have been some good in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what do you think was the major change that came about? I mean, you come from a small middle America town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that those. My look at the world was different now. My world included the whole world, whereas a lot of the kids that stayed at home, their whole life would have been the boundaries of the community. That I think it broadened my outlook on life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is sort of related. We began to talk about this a little bit earlier, but when you came back, did you have a hard time adjusting because of those changes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the hard time I had was the fact that my interest and maybe the interest of my friends at that particular time had changed. Our outlook on life may have changed a little bit. There was probably a period that it may have been a little bit difficult. But for the most part, I would say that it was a more positive change, that it helped me when I got to dealing with different workplaces and different people, that you had many more people skills than what I would have otherwise had and an understanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well. I think we're pretty much at the end. Is there anything else that we haven't mentioned that you'd like to add to this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00434:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.257709578252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I knew both of them quite well.\\n\\n Because I visited [the] El Paso [NASA base] a lot, I would talk to the guys. I got to know about 100 astronauts, maybe more, real personally [like Robert L. “Bob”] Crippen and Young. Young is one of my favorite guys. I was in his office one day at Johnson Space Center. There was this picture of the Earth. I said, “Hey, that’s a neat picture.” He said, “Yes, I took that picture on the way back from the Moon. We were 9,000 miles out.” I said, “Oh, neat.” So, without telling me, he sent me a copy of that picture with the inscription “To Al Paczynski, thanks for your efforts in helping to get this effort going.” Signed, “John Young.” He was so nice he had to send me that thing personally. Wasn’t that nice of him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a tremendous guy. Lousma was a good pilot, he’s an ex-Marine. I liked him. He practiced there a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to go out there and greet the crew as they were walking out of the Orbiter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, that was for [VIPs]. General Nord was there, Senator Schmitt was there. I was just the center of operations, I wasn’t the leader. I give a speech once in a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you? About the Space Harbor?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00434:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.730788420280001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a tremendous guy. Lousma was a good pilot, he’s an ex-Marine. I liked him. He practiced there a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to go out there and greet the crew as they were walking out of the Orbiter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, that was for [VIPs]. General Nord was there, Senator Schmitt was there. I was just the center of operations, I wasn’t the leader. I give a speech once in a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you? About the Space Harbor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About this, yes. I had to make a decision, “Do I want to get involved in this thing or not?” I said, “Carpe diem.” I did. But if I hadn’t, there would have been nothing here—you wouldn’t be here, they would have had training someplace in Arizona, maybe Williams Air Force Base [Arizona] or Davis-Monthan [Air Force Base, Arizona]. It couldn’t be used for a Shuttle landing because it would be too short. They would have had to let STS-3 sit there for a month, lakebed dry, and that would have been very costly.\\n\\n Colonel Paul Smathers was the guy in charge of the Air Force when I took Allen Manson over to talk about how safe is it going to be for NASA to fly in here. He’d go into great detail how they protect the airspace of the Missile Range. He said, “Once in a while we get an intrusion. We ferret them out, and we give the guy hell and fine him.” I want to mention him, that he was very instrumental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he with the Army or with the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00434:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.3675426892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, that was for [VIPs]. General Nord was there, Senator Schmitt was there. I was just the center of operations, I wasn’t the leader. I give a speech once in a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you? About the Space Harbor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About this, yes. I had to make a decision, “Do I want to get involved in this thing or not?” I said, “Carpe diem.” I did. But if I hadn’t, there would have been nothing here—you wouldn’t be here, they would have had training someplace in Arizona, maybe Williams Air Force Base [Arizona] or Davis-Monthan [Air Force Base, Arizona]. It couldn’t be used for a Shuttle landing because it would be too short. They would have had to let STS-3 sit there for a month, lakebed dry, and that would have been very costly.\\n\\n Colonel Paul Smathers was the guy in charge of the Air Force when I took Allen Manson over to talk about how safe is it going to be for NASA to fly in here. He’d go into great detail how they protect the airspace of the Missile Range. He said, “Once in a while we get an intrusion. We ferret them out, and we give the guy hell and fine him.” I want to mention him, that he was very instrumental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he with the Army or with the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air Force, with the Air Force contingent assigned to the Missile Range. They took care of airspace management."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there ever any concerns? I know that sometimes U.S. 70 is closed because of missiles going overhead. Were there any concerns about that when you presented this idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 60.80452801181867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a nice career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of all of that? I mean, just starting out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was nice. You know, DC is a great place for young people. And I was still pretty young at the time, before children, so it was pretty exciting. Mary, before our marriage, had a roommate and lived out in Sterling. And I had rented a room in a house out in Sterling. After we got married, we actually moved into the District [of Columbia]. That was a time when the District was very much transitioning, and parts of the city still were very unsafe. But ours was. But we took every opportunity to go to concerts, see all the museums, you know, apple festivals, and gosh, we did a lot. We did something almost every weekend and almost every evening, and took advantage of the city; it was great. And we did a lot of the program. The National Archives, the old building downtown, used to have this wonderful, wonderful, wonderful theater. They used to show a lot of Frank Capra. The National Archives had a—part of their collection—they had gotten a—oh, shoot, I can't remember—one of the news service companies, one of the companies that own the newsreels—Ed Herlihy was the narrator. Anyway, they would play those a lot and they would do things like Frank Capra. They would show a Frank Capra film every week for the summer. So everything from his silent movies, all the way through, you know, the 40s and 50s. So we did. We kept very busy. Very, very busy. A lot of authors and book collectors and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a big change then from Mobile, Alabama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. A big change. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any—[CROSS-TALKING]. I'm sorry. Go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 67.56058667979852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was nice. You know, DC is a great place for young people. And I was still pretty young at the time, before children, so it was pretty exciting. Mary, before our marriage, had a roommate and lived out in Sterling. And I had rented a room in a house out in Sterling. After we got married, we actually moved into the District [of Columbia]. That was a time when the District was very much transitioning, and parts of the city still were very unsafe. But ours was. But we took every opportunity to go to concerts, see all the museums, you know, apple festivals, and gosh, we did a lot. We did something almost every weekend and almost every evening, and took advantage of the city; it was great. And we did a lot of the program. The National Archives, the old building downtown, used to have this wonderful, wonderful, wonderful theater. They used to show a lot of Frank Capra. The National Archives had a—part of their collection—they had gotten a—oh, shoot, I can't remember—one of the news service companies, one of the companies that own the newsreels—Ed Herlihy was the narrator. Anyway, they would play those a lot and they would do things like Frank Capra. They would show a Frank Capra film every week for the summer. So everything from his silent movies, all the way through, you know, the 40s and 50s. So we did. We kept very busy. Very, very busy. A lot of authors and book collectors and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a big change then from Mobile, Alabama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. A big change. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any—[CROSS-TALKING]. I'm sorry. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just going to ask if the National Archives gave you any job training for your positions?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 72.84509631088724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. A big change. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any—[CROSS-TALKING]. I'm sorry. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just going to ask if the National Archives gave you any job training for your positions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, they used to have a program. When I became an archivist, they had a program that was called CIDS: Career [thinking of acronym] Development—I can't—\"C-I-D-S\"—career intern—no, I don't remember. But it was a two-week course that all new archivists went through. I was in California when I joined the program. I ended up doing a paper on an obsolete electronic records system that the Bush White House had called “PROFS,” which actually became a big deal at the end of the administration because—should it be deleted or were they a record that was—anyway, neither here nor there. So give me the question again, because I've already—."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Any job training that—."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 84.43239797422227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I became an archivist. When I went out to Reagan, I was hired as an archivist at Reagan. So I was hired in March as a technician, as a GS-4 or -5. I can't remember. I was promoted after 90 days and then still as a technician. And then in—March, April, May, June, July, August—so I think about five months later, in August, I applied for the job, the archivist position at Reagan. And, I think, in August, I went to California, and I stayed in California for one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then that would have made me a GS-7—that would have made me a GS-9, probably. And I came back to DC and went to work for Pat Borders, Nancy Smith, and John Fawcett, who was the head of the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, going back to the Reagan Library, what were your responsibilities there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were just starting up. We would go to the— what's the movie with—? Oh, shoot. The movie with Bruce Willis. Reagan's office was in the same movie that the Bruce Willis film was made, you know, where they blow up the building and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a Die Hard movie?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 100.86023163271189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. It was fun. I lived in Culver—. The building was in the old—I'm not sure the building still exists—but it's typical California. It was a great California experience for me. I lived in Culver City, right across the street from what had been the MGM headquarters. It was then Lorimar and, I think, later became Sony headquarters. But we were in a building that had been A-1 Pasta Factory, and they had made pasta there. And in the same building with us was the dealership, an automotive repair shop that worked on Bentleys. And that was kind of fun. And then Tales from the Crypt was filmed above us. And one night, in 1989, at the end of the season, there was a wrap party. The production company had a wrap party, and there was a lot of ice, and they left the ice apparently on the roof, and it all leaked through the roof and into our stack area. And we were very, very lucky nothing got damaged, but we were also very, very—not very, very happy. But it was on Venice Boulevard, and we were about, I don't know, two or three miles from Venice Beach. So it's very—it was very California-ish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Culver City, apparently, has changed quite a bit since then. But I lived there for—I lived in a small—a woman-owned house, and she had built a mother-in-law apartment for her mother, and her mother had died. And she rented the little apartment to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Connections, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was working for the Reagan Library. She was part of the local Los Angeles Democratic Party Committee. And she was always trying to save me. And I always tried to point out to her that I worked for the National Archives. This was a nonpartisan, nonpolitical job. But I don't think she ever really believed me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I know we get that, don't we? Yeah. Does anything really stick out in your mind from your time at the Reagan Library?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.1250257718329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that have had their hands on those records for 30 years, or 15 years, or 10 years, are the people that should have those records. It's not to say that the people who are getting those records aren't smart. It's just going to take them some time to figure out what's—. You know what I'm saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yeah. I think they have some rationale behind it, but there's pros and cons to it, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and it would be fair to say that anybody in the National Archives would tell you that I have argued to keep the records, but I haven't been obstinate about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I do understand the pros and cons, but I do think it's better they stay at the Presidential Libraries, but I do understand both sides of the coin. So no one's become an enemy of mine because they've made a decision that I don't agree with, which is something that happens too often in this country right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're very right about that. Yes. Yeah. Well, hey, I've kept you for a full two hours."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.361139746481001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and it would be fair to say that anybody in the National Archives would tell you that I have argued to keep the records, but I haven't been obstinate about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I do understand the pros and cons, but I do think it's better they stay at the Presidential Libraries, but I do understand both sides of the coin. So no one's become an enemy of mine because they've made a decision that I don't agree with, which is something that happens too often in this country right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're very right about that. Yes. Yeah. Well, hey, I've kept you for a full two hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This has been really interesting. You have such a storied career, and you've met so many interesting people and worked at several different [Presidential] Libraries and—."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.512377496090002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I do understand the pros and cons, but I do think it's better they stay at the Presidential Libraries, but I do understand both sides of the coin. So no one's become an enemy of mine because they've made a decision that I don't agree with, which is something that happens too often in this country right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're very right about that. Yes. Yeah. Well, hey, I've kept you for a full two hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This has been really interesting. You have such a storied career, and you've met so many interesting people and worked at several different [Presidential] Libraries and—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. I enjoyed the career. Thirty years was time to retire. I've wanted to retire when I was still kind of enjoying the work. But, 62 1/2 was the time to retire. Um, you didn't ask me who my favorite person I ever met was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.680419440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This has been really interesting. You have such a storied career, and you've met so many interesting people and worked at several different [Presidential] Libraries and—."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. I enjoyed the career. Thirty years was time to retire. I've wanted to retire when I was still kind of enjoying the work. But, 62 1/2 was the time to retire. Um, you didn't ask me who my favorite person I ever met was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Newhart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob Newhart. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.644910489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun. I enjoyed the career. Thirty years was time to retire. I've wanted to retire when I was still kind of enjoying the work. But, 62 1/2 was the time to retire. Um, you didn't ask me who my favorite person I ever met was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Newhart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bob Newhart. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Bush used to have a literacy fundraiser down in Houston, and she would bring the authors up. And Bob Newhart came many years ago. You just meet all kinds of people. But growing up watching The Bob Newhart Show, it was just—he was just such a nice, nice, nice guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In person, in real life, he's a nice guy. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 11.9072969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mrs. Bush used to have a literacy fundraiser down in Houston, and she would bring the authors up. And Bob Newhart came many years ago. You just meet all kinds of people. But growing up watching The Bob Newhart Show, it was just—he was just such a nice, nice, nice guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In person, in real life, he's a nice guy. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They mostly all are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway. Yeah. Thank you. It's been a great career, and I've enjoyed every minute of it and enjoyed working with—."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you miss the most?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I still see my colleagues at work, and I still see the foundation people, and the arts council keeps me very, very busy. And I was involved in the community for 30 years, and so I have friends here. So, I thought I would be lonely and wouldn't have anything to do. But people like you give me—. So like today, I went over to the foundation this morning and worked a little bit with the staff on the project. I'm doing this interview. I'm meeting with the—we're giving another scholarship to a Bryan [Texas] kid, so I'm meeting with the mayor of Bryan at 5 o’clock, and at 7 o’clock, I’ve got a dinner at a fancy-schmancy restaurant with some people in town. So, it's a good life. It was a good time to retire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yes. It sounds like you are super busy still."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, anyway, I've been very, very fortunate. Very, very fortunate. And I'm having a hell of a good time in retirement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is good to hear. Would you happen to have any photographs that you would want to share with us? Just one during your time in service, or it could be a picture from now or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I have a whole, uh,—. Can I send them tomorrow?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. Whenever you have time. There's no rush."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, anyway, I've been very, very fortunate. Very, very fortunate. And I'm having a hell of a good time in retirement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is good to hear. Would you happen to have any photographs that you would want to share with us? Just one during your time in service, or it could be a picture from now or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I have a whole, uh,—. Can I send them tomorrow?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. Whenever you have time. There's no rush."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a whole carousel. The foundation did a program for my retirement. They're very nice, and they put a bunch of photos together throughout my career. So it might be more than you want, but I'll send it to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah, that would be great. We'd appreciate it. So, yeah, just thank you so much for spending all this time with me today."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I have a whole, uh,—. Can I send them tomorrow?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. Whenever you have time. There's no rush."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a whole carousel. The foundation did a program for my retirement. They're very nice, and they put a bunch of photos together throughout my career. So it might be more than you want, but I'll send it to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah, that would be great. We'd appreciate it. So, yeah, just thank you so much for spending all this time with me today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully, I didn't bore you to death."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no! This is so interesting. You know, you've just done so much. It's been really, really great."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00059:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a whole carousel. The foundation did a program for my retirement. They're very nice, and they put a bunch of photos together throughout my career. So it might be more than you want, but I'll send it to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah, that would be great. We'd appreciate it. So, yeah, just thank you so much for spending all this time with me today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hopefully, I didn't bore you to death."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no! This is so interesting. You know, you've just done so much. It's been really, really great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thanks a lot. I appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right. Well, hey, I'm going to let you go. But again, thank you so much. And, you know, hopefully we'll be talking soon about the photographs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00218:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.50790414930428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd think, though, really, in this day and age, that if it had been faked that somebody wouldn't have talked? You couldn't keep a secret in this country if you wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, certainly not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe there's some zealots who would take something to the grave with them. There are people that are willing to die for what they believe in and will keep their mouth shut if it's a conspiracy kind of thing, but to pull off something of that magnitude, there are too many people involved to make it work. There's no way you're going to keep that secret, no way. Are you familiar with the [web]site NASA Watch?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Daniel S.] Goldin would have a meeting behind his doors up there, and it would be on NASA Watch before the night was over. I mean, who's leaking it? But I mean some reason, somehow, they knew what was going on, what was being said in there. It's crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the word certainly spreads very quickly, very quickly. Part of, I guess, being in an open society. There's not much that is hidden, and certainly not anything of that magnitude could be."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00218:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.3421157214492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe there's some zealots who would take something to the grave with them. There are people that are willing to die for what they believe in and will keep their mouth shut if it's a conspiracy kind of thing, but to pull off something of that magnitude, there are too many people involved to make it work. There's no way you're going to keep that secret, no way. Are you familiar with the [web]site NASA Watch?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Daniel S.] Goldin would have a meeting behind his doors up there, and it would be on NASA Watch before the night was over. I mean, who's leaking it? But I mean some reason, somehow, they knew what was going on, what was being said in there. It's crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the word certainly spreads very quickly, very quickly. Part of, I guess, being in an open society. There's not much that is hidden, and certainly not anything of that magnitude could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and people see things they don't understand and they try to ascribe other reasons to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, without looking into the scientific facts and the flag-waving and all those things, there's very simple basic explanations.\\n\\n But it is interesting that you mentioned your moment of realizing all that was going on. At that point, what were your thoughts about being involved in the space program? At that point, did you realize that the later Apollo missions had been canceled?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00218:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 25.7532908817687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They did a great job of reconfiguring and saving the mission. Those three Skylab missions I thought went very well. I wound up, I think, getting more graveyard Capcom shifts than anybody. It was just the luck of the draw. In fact, I don't know, still maybe somebody has caught me by now, but I think I held the record for Capcom time for a long time because I did all three of the Skylabs and Apollo 16, so it was a lot of hours sitting in the mission control. A dubious record, not one I'm real proud of. But I had a lot of fun doing that. We had good teams and worked well together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, when you weren't working your Capcom shifts, were you working some of your other—were you starting to get into Shuttle at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, because the way the Capcom things did, I forget the work schedule. It was like three, maybe it was five days. I don't know. Five on and three off, or something. Your off times varied, then you shifted schedule. You'd be like five. I forget. I think it was five, five days on the graveyard, and then you would shift and go to the next shift. So you got a planning shift and whatever they called them, and an ops shift. So you weren't always stuck on it, but you moved around from shift to shift. They gave you a few days to adjust your sleep cycle and to go back to the office and do whatever you got to do to get caught up. But really there wasn't an opportunity to do much else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a challenge getting your schedule shifted around like that, getting your body adjusted, and so forth. But Skylab certainly has returned a lot of good information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was great. We had a lot of fun doing that. It was unfortunate that it got ripped apart on ascent, but we're fortunate that we didn't lose it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Were there any incidents or occurrences during Skylab, either from a technical standpoint or from a more humorous standpoint that stand out for you that you'd like to mention during all those shifts on duty and such?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00218:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 15.278602166999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have to learn it all over again, but they will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully, there's enough people still around that were involved with [Skylab] that can throw out a few pieces of advice here and there, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they are, and they have been contributing to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During Skylab, was NASA able to work with DoD at all to incorporate some of the things that had been anticipated for the MOL Program then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not to my knowledge, I don't think that ever happened, because MOL never really flew so there wasn't a lot to pass on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know they had managed to do some DoD events for the Gemini Program, and I wasn't sure if maybe they had been able to tie in some."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00218:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.45847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just aggravating to have to undo all that, because that locker, the stuff we had just barely fit in there, so it was a really stowage issue here. If there's one thing you learn in zero G, things are always neatly packed. They pack it in FEPC [Flight Equipment Processing Contract] and you get it up there, and once you pull it out, it doesn't always go back in, because it expands or does something in zero G and it doesn't fit very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I've had that problem down here trying to get something back in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you pack a suitcase to go somewhere. Once you open it up, you can't get it all back in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It's amazing how that works.\\n\\n With the Department of Defense and NASA did have a lot of interaction on Shuttle, they had some plans early on with that, being with your background, did you have much involvement in those plans throughout the development of Shuttle and up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in development. I was involved on some of the classified flights to a limited extent. Those things they kept very tightly controlled, which they had to, you know. There were some things that I was doing later on after I finished flying that required my access to some of the things they were doing and some of the things that were going on. After Challenger, they quit flying military payloads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What was part of the motivation then, because they had originally thought of flying Shuttle flights out of Vandenberg and having—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00218:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.398299999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you pack a suitcase to go somewhere. Once you open it up, you can't get it all back in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It's amazing how that works.\\n\\n With the Department of Defense and NASA did have a lot of interaction on Shuttle, they had some plans early on with that, being with your background, did you have much involvement in those plans throughout the development of Shuttle and up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in development. I was involved on some of the classified flights to a limited extent. Those things they kept very tightly controlled, which they had to, you know. There were some things that I was doing later on after I finished flying that required my access to some of the things they were doing and some of the things that were going on. After Challenger, they quit flying military payloads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What was part of the motivation then, because they had originally thought of flying Shuttle flights out of Vandenberg and having—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, the old MOL pad became the Shuttle pad. They modified that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did those needs change at some point along the way, and then after Challenger they decided to go more with focused just on the unmanned systems? Is that probably what happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.350387666815315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I graduated from college in 1967 and had to do a 12 month internship, which I could do anywhere in the country. So I looked around different places, wanting to get out of Michigan and go to a big city. So I ended up in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back. What degree was it that you got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Bachelor of Science in medical technology from Michigan State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you grown up in Michigan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and really hadn't, had not experienced much of the country, let alone the world until I went off to college and was very intrigued by these students from all over the country and, and the world, but primarily just there were people from New York and California, Wyoming. And so anyway, I found that pretty interesting. And when I had this internship to do, I decided on Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to when you were in high school. Did you do any special activities, volunteer work? What did you do with your summers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.167097407572573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Bachelor of Science in medical technology from Michigan State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you grown up in Michigan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and really hadn't, had not experienced much of the country, let alone the world until I went off to college and was very intrigued by these students from all over the country and, and the world, but primarily just there were people from New York and California, Wyoming. And so anyway, I found that pretty interesting. And when I had this internship to do, I decided on Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to when you were in high school. Did you do any special activities, volunteer work? What did you do with your summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My summers, for the most part when I was a little younger than high school until I was about 14, I spent every summer doing classes at the local museum all day every day because my parents both worked. And that was a wonderful, wonderful thing for me and really developed my interest in science. And, um, and I think had I been of a generation or two later, I might have pursued a career in the natural sciences in some way, but didn't even think that was something a girl could do, right? And there were teachers and nurses, and I knew I didn't want to be a nurse, but I loved medicine. And so that led me to medical technology.\n\nAnd in high school, in the summers, I, I, I guess I just did all those typical high school things. I think I worked a little, but it wasn't real compelling to work until I got out of high school. And then, then the first summer I went to work in a mattress factory where my mom worked and sewed mattress covers. And, uh, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any travel at all during?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.185663786191746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and really hadn't, had not experienced much of the country, let alone the world until I went off to college and was very intrigued by these students from all over the country and, and the world, but primarily just there were people from New York and California, Wyoming. And so anyway, I found that pretty interesting. And when I had this internship to do, I decided on Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to when you were in high school. Did you do any special activities, volunteer work? What did you do with your summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My summers, for the most part when I was a little younger than high school until I was about 14, I spent every summer doing classes at the local museum all day every day because my parents both worked. And that was a wonderful, wonderful thing for me and really developed my interest in science. And, um, and I think had I been of a generation or two later, I might have pursued a career in the natural sciences in some way, but didn't even think that was something a girl could do, right? And there were teachers and nurses, and I knew I didn't want to be a nurse, but I loved medicine. And so that led me to medical technology.\n\nAnd in high school, in the summers, I, I, I guess I just did all those typical high school things. I think I worked a little, but it wasn't real compelling to work until I got out of high school. And then, then the first summer I went to work in a mattress factory where my mom worked and sewed mattress covers. And, uh, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any travel at all during?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My family, my family always camped around Michigan, but we really never. We took one trip to California, the obligatory trip to California. But no, I mean, my parents were very working class and they certainly didn't have money to travel abroad or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then when you were in college, same thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.42851531799083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My summers, for the most part when I was a little younger than high school until I was about 14, I spent every summer doing classes at the local museum all day every day because my parents both worked. And that was a wonderful, wonderful thing for me and really developed my interest in science. And, um, and I think had I been of a generation or two later, I might have pursued a career in the natural sciences in some way, but didn't even think that was something a girl could do, right? And there were teachers and nurses, and I knew I didn't want to be a nurse, but I loved medicine. And so that led me to medical technology.\n\nAnd in high school, in the summers, I, I, I guess I just did all those typical high school things. I think I worked a little, but it wasn't real compelling to work until I got out of high school. And then, then the first summer I went to work in a mattress factory where my mom worked and sewed mattress covers. And, uh, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any travel at all during?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My family, my family always camped around Michigan, but we really never. We took one trip to California, the obligatory trip to California. But no, I mean, my parents were very working class and they certainly didn't have money to travel abroad or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then when you were in college, same thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh yeah, in summers while I worked the entire time I was in college and all through the summers to pay for it, and my parents helping with what they could. But I was typical in that I left with student loans and all of these things. But I had this internship to do. So that led me to Washington, D.C., which, well, number one, when I got to college, I was thrilled. I spent the whole time smiling. I mean, I just thought this was the most amazing new environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the first in the family to go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.142794797767586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My family, my family always camped around Michigan, but we really never. We took one trip to California, the obligatory trip to California. But no, I mean, my parents were very working class and they certainly didn't have money to travel abroad or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then when you were in college, same thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh yeah, in summers while I worked the entire time I was in college and all through the summers to pay for it, and my parents helping with what they could. But I was typical in that I left with student loans and all of these things. But I had this internship to do. So that led me to Washington, D.C., which, well, number one, when I got to college, I was thrilled. I spent the whole time smiling. I mean, I just thought this was the most amazing new environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were the first in the family to go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was the first in the family to go to college. And I'm a baby. So I had these older brothers and, older brother and two sisters and who never had any interest, and they went right to work and all that. So I just thought this was the best thing since sliced bread. So when I, but when I got to D.C., it got even better because it was this world I had had absolutely no exposure to. Politics was certainly nothing that was ever discussed in my family. My father, working class Catholic Italian, had been an acquaintance of Gerald Ford in their, when they played football in the 1920s and therefore became a Ford supporter and therefore a Republican, which made everybody else in the family crazy. And so my mother would never, she just would not allow any discussion of politics in our home because it always ended up in an argument with my dad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the early sixties, do you, do you have any recollection of John F. Kennedy or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.804595027842685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Actually, I did. And I, you know, I can't. Well, no, not during high school. During college I did, yeah, because I graduated from high school in 1963, and I really wasn't aware of it at that time. But in college, I became aware of it and very interested. And then when I went to D.C., I was just, I mean, this was absolutely what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there recruiters on the college campus, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There probably were, because I know that Michigan State has provided, at that time it was the, it had the largest number of Peace Corps volunteers of any public university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so there must have been recruiters, but I just wasn't aware of it. I was either studying or working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so your head was elsewhere."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.223038446972133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I, you know, honestly, I can't say how I became aware of it. It must have been through the news and whatever. Yeah. So by the time I got to D.C. in August of '67, of course, the political scene was pretty intense with the war protests. And, and I'd never been involved in any of that. And remembering the first march on the Pentagon, being in my room. I lived in a nurse's dorm because it was all I could afford in Washington making $75 a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just wanting so badly to be there and not even having a clue how to go about making connections with people and not daring to go alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that sort of thing. So it was kind of this definitely significant political awakening in D.C. and I got involved in the McCarthy campaign after some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where was the internship?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.914487163302369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just wanting so badly to be there and not even having a clue how to go about making connections with people and not daring to go alone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that sort of thing. So it was kind of this definitely significant political awakening in D.C. and I got involved in the McCarthy campaign after some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where was the internship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the Washington Hospital Center in Northwest Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was part of a master's program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4605412925581875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that sort of thing. So it was kind of this definitely significant political awakening in D.C. and I got involved in the McCarthy campaign after some time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where was the internship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the Washington Hospital Center in Northwest Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was part of a master's program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was to become a medical technologist, you had to have a degree and an internship. And many universities who had their own hospital systems combined that in the four years. But Michigan State required that you get a degree and then do your internship that fifth year. So it really didn't lead to a master's, but it led to being qualified to take the exam to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was the exam national or by state?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.741409003158257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was to become a medical technologist, you had to have a degree and an internship. And many universities who had their own hospital systems combined that in the four years. But Michigan State required that you get a degree and then do your internship that fifth year. So it really didn't lead to a master's, but it led to being qualified to take the exam to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now was the exam national or by state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "National."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't have to all be done in Michigan."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.490454447953619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "National."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't have to all be done in Michigan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and it was a one year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.100504942170687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it didn't have to all be done in Michigan."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and it was a one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year, one full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, what else did you do during the year in Washington?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.667227713522985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and it was a one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year, one full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, what else did you do during the year in Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. All kinds of things. I mean, I visited, you know, did the whole tourist thing. And actually Jim moved there after about six months and we did everything free in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Jim grew up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.296919681692206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One year, one full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, what else did you do during the year in Washington?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. All kinds of things. I mean, I visited, you know, did the whole tourist thing. And actually Jim moved there after about six months and we did everything free in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Jim grew up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Grand Rapids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just tell me quickly who Jim is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.99657742410245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. All kinds of things. I mean, I visited, you know, did the whole tourist thing. And actually Jim moved there after about six months and we did everything free in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Jim grew up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Grand Rapids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just tell me quickly who Jim is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. All right, let's go on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.773974915669389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Grand Rapids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And just tell me quickly who Jim is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. All right, let's go on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he came to Washington."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.264166562554801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he came to Washington."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he came to D.C. and I started badgering him, well, we were engaged at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started badgering him about Peace Corps. And he was just kind of, well, yeah, whatever you want to do. And I had really always been very intrigued by international travel and other cultures. You know, I mean, I can remember in high school going right to the National Geographic, and that was about my, you know, the extent of my exposure. But it really did turn me on to this. So anyway, he got a job. When Jim came to D.C., he got a job with EEOC, and his job was. How did this work? I can't remember how it all worked. But anyway, he ended up evaluating VISTA applications, and we had already put in our Peace Corps applications. And so then through his experience, we learned what the process was. So we kept going to Peace Corps and saying, we need a decision, you know, when are you going to tell us if we're."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember actually going to the Peace Corps office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.960185069505335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he came to D.C. and I started badgering him, well, we were engaged at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started badgering him about Peace Corps. And he was just kind of, well, yeah, whatever you want to do. And I had really always been very intrigued by international travel and other cultures. You know, I mean, I can remember in high school going right to the National Geographic, and that was about my, you know, the extent of my exposure. But it really did turn me on to this. So anyway, he got a job. When Jim came to D.C., he got a job with EEOC, and his job was. How did this work? I can't remember how it all worked. But anyway, he ended up evaluating VISTA applications, and we had already put in our Peace Corps applications. And so then through his experience, we learned what the process was. So we kept going to Peace Corps and saying, we need a decision, you know, when are you going to tell us if we're."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember actually going to the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, once. And Jim went several times because he worked in the area. So he kept badgering them. But you can ask him about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application process at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.733538966117039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I started badgering him about Peace Corps. And he was just kind of, well, yeah, whatever you want to do. And I had really always been very intrigued by international travel and other cultures. You know, I mean, I can remember in high school going right to the National Geographic, and that was about my, you know, the extent of my exposure. But it really did turn me on to this. So anyway, he got a job. When Jim came to D.C., he got a job with EEOC, and his job was. How did this work? I can't remember how it all worked. But anyway, he ended up evaluating VISTA applications, and we had already put in our Peace Corps applications. And so then through his experience, we learned what the process was. So we kept going to Peace Corps and saying, we need a decision, you know, when are you going to tell us if we're."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember actually going to the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, once. And Jim went several times because he worked in the area. So he kept badgering them. But you can ask him about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application process at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. And I was, well, related to our conversation earlier about writing. I was completely traumatized, traumatized by having to write a motivational statement. And I had this huge stress about it. And I think now if I were to see it, I'd probably be embarrassed. But I'm glad it's destroyed or lost or whatever. But it worked, whatever I wrote that I don't really remember. I just felt that, I know I felt I had this skill that would certainly be very useful anywhere in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were in Washington, you just sort of it, your next step you felt was going to be Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.481709962352266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, once. And Jim went several times because he worked in the area. So he kept badgering them. But you can ask him about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application process at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. And I was, well, related to our conversation earlier about writing. I was completely traumatized, traumatized by having to write a motivational statement. And I had this huge stress about it. And I think now if I were to see it, I'd probably be embarrassed. But I'm glad it's destroyed or lost or whatever. But it worked, whatever I wrote that I don't really remember. I just felt that, I know I felt I had this skill that would certainly be very useful anywhere in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were in Washington, you just sort of it, your next step you felt was going to be Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. We were getting married in September '68 and we were, you know, at that place where, where are we going to live? What are we going to do? And I knew I could work at the hospital where I trained in D.C. and we loved D.C. So the plan was to stay there unless we got into Peace Corps. So I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Jim have overseas experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.313011069280295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. And I was, well, related to our conversation earlier about writing. I was completely traumatized, traumatized by having to write a motivational statement. And I had this huge stress about it. And I think now if I were to see it, I'd probably be embarrassed. But I'm glad it's destroyed or lost or whatever. But it worked, whatever I wrote that I don't really remember. I just felt that, I know I felt I had this skill that would certainly be very useful anywhere in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were in Washington, you just sort of it, your next step you felt was going to be Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. We were getting married in September '68 and we were, you know, at that place where, where are we going to live? What are we going to do? And I knew I could work at the hospital where I trained in D.C. and we loved D.C. So the plan was to stay there unless we got into Peace Corps. So I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Jim have overseas experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to match up to yours."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5884925504530765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much. We grew up, we went to the same high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway, I went home a month before our wedding, after graduation, and Jim stayed in D.C., and he called me a week or so later and said, well, Peace Corps says we're accepted, but they don't have a placement for us yet. Great. Okay. So then it was, well, what are we going to do? I mean, we need to get jobs or whatever. Well, anyway, about a week before he came home for our wedding, he called and said, they want to send us to Kenya. I freaked out, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So emotional. Oh, sorry. Anyway. It's really stupid. So he called and said, how about going to Kenya? And I completely freaked out. He didn't know anything about it. I said, oh my God, the only thing I know about Kenya is it's really close to the Serengeti. This would be wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you applied as a married couple?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.13394142031244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So emotional. Oh, sorry. Anyway. It's really stupid. So he called and said, how about going to Kenya? And I completely freaked out. He didn't know anything about it. I said, oh my God, the only thing I know about Kenya is it's really close to the Serengeti. This would be wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you applied as a married couple?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We applied as a couple who would be married when we went in. We were engaged at the time and we didn't, weren't available until after we got married. Um. So I was really excited going on and on about how wonderful this would be. And he said, but you have to be a teacher. Which stopped me dead in my tracks, because of the two of us, Jim was what Peace Corps called a BA generalist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had no applicable skill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was his degree in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.031416993196224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that kind of took the wind out of my sails and I said, well, yeah, you know, this sounds wonderful. And it was going to start two weeks after our wedding and it all fit. And we really hadn't even requested Africa. Back then, remember, you could request three countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we didn't know anything. I mean, we were very ignorant, and so. [phone rings] I can just let it go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, um, we, uh, we just were thrilled. We were thrilled to be accepted and whatever so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What preferences had you put down, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.680761719995337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, um, we, uh, we just were thrilled. We were thrilled to be accepted and whatever so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What preferences had you put down, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we put down Chile and Thailand and I can't remember the third. I mean, we were just all over the place because we really didn't. I had a friend who was Thai."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know why we thought Chile would have been very interesting at that time. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any friends who had joined the Peace Corps up to that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.645290799994818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we put down Chile and Thailand and I can't remember the third. I mean, we were just all over the place because we really didn't. I had a friend who was Thai."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know why we thought Chile would have been very interesting at that time. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any friends who had joined the Peace Corps up to that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We knew no one who had joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the, how was the family dealing with your plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.605878666660908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know why we thought Chile would have been very interesting at that time. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any friends who had joined the Peace Corps up to that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We knew no one who had joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the, how was the family dealing with your plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they just thought it was really kind of crazy. My parents really thought anything I did was great, but they just were kind of in shock about this. They would never have said, you know, we don't want you to do it or anything like that. But, um, but I did have an aunt who made it very clear that she thought we were wasting two years of our lives when we could be making money. So it was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your father silent, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.67319851851212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We knew no one who had joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the, how was the family dealing with your plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they just thought it was really kind of crazy. My parents really thought anything I did was great, but they just were kind of in shock about this. They would never have said, you know, we don't want you to do it or anything like that. But, um, but I did have an aunt who made it very clear that she thought we were wasting two years of our lives when we could be making money. So it was, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your father silent, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my father was almost always silent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, this is a Democratic thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.55171264542129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. I don't even, you know, honestly, I don't even know that, that he connected it to politics or to Democrats. It was, it was not that thought out a process, I don't think. But, you know, I'm going to have to turn, go ahead and turn off a sec."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our families, alright, our families were just kind of silent, a little bit shocked, but they knew darn well that there wasn't any point in telling either of us what to do. So they got into the spirit of it. And, and so we, we got married September 21st and we started training. We didn't know when we were going to start training, but we were camping on our honeymoon. And friends drove up to where we were camping with the packets that had come from Peace Corps with all of our travel arrangements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were to leave in about two and a half weeks. And so we went home and tried to figure out what to pack."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where were you told to report?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.501902939356988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So our families, alright, our families were just kind of silent, a little bit shocked, but they knew darn well that there wasn't any point in telling either of us what to do. So they got into the spirit of it. And, and so we, we got married September 21st and we started training. We didn't know when we were going to start training, but we were camping on our honeymoon. And friends drove up to where we were camping with the packets that had come from Peace Corps with all of our travel arrangements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were to leave in about two and a half weeks. And so we went home and tried to figure out what to pack."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where were you told to report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was training going to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.03938634488517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was training going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was in New York City at the Paris Hotel, well, we stayed at the Paris Hotel and then, um. And had all, if I remember, oh, training was at Columbia Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that's where we had all of our, our courses and such. And then we right away went for the month long language immersion north of the city, where we were ensconced in a closed hotel with about 170 trainees and 25 East Africans as our language instructors. So it's a huge group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I hadn't heard of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.821540383205744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training was in New York City at the Paris Hotel, well, we stayed at the Paris Hotel and then, um. And had all, if I remember, oh, training was at Columbia Teachers College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that's where we had all of our, our courses and such. And then we right away went for the month long language immersion north of the city, where we were ensconced in a closed hotel with about 170 trainees and 25 East Africans as our language instructors. So it's a huge group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I hadn't heard of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had either of you ever spent time in New York?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.69060042578416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that's where we had all of our, our courses and such. And then we right away went for the month long language immersion north of the city, where we were ensconced in a closed hotel with about 170 trainees and 25 East Africans as our language instructors. So it's a huge group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I hadn't heard of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had either of you ever spent time in New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's kind of a."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.656222695315734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had either of you ever spent time in New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's kind of a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everything was new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A special honeymoon."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.575583574463867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, everything was new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A special honeymoon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, the whole two years was a honeymoon really, I mean, you can't ask for anything better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we spent that three months there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, when you left home, you had, you packed up. Was the expectation then that you were going to go to training and directly overseas, or that you would have a chance to come back home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.306203971626517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, the whole two years was a honeymoon really, I mean, you can't ask for anything better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we spent that three months there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, when you left home, you had, you packed up. Was the expectation then that you were going to go to training and directly overseas, or that you would have a chance to come back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did go back home because we were to leave on January 1st, and so we took a few days at Christmas time and they allowed people to go home if they wanted. And so we did. We went back to Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the training now. Okay. So you reported to New York, to the Hotel Paris on 96th Street?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.006893301807241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we spent that three months there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, when you left home, you had, you packed up. Was the expectation then that you were going to go to training and directly overseas, or that you would have a chance to come back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did go back home because we were to leave on January 1st, and so we took a few days at Christmas time and they allowed people to go home if they wanted. And so we did. We went back to Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the training now. Okay. So you reported to New York, to the Hotel Paris on 96th Street?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's right. And West End."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it just a group for Kenya or was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.785437002008046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did go back home because we were to leave on January 1st, and so we took a few days at Christmas time and they allowed people to go home if they wanted. And so we did. We went back to Michigan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the training now. Okay. So you reported to New York, to the Hotel Paris on 96th Street?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's right. And West End."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it just a group for Kenya or was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a group for Kenya. It was combined secondary education and a few nurses who are going to be doing nursing education. I think there might have been maybe 20 nurses out of the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first gathered, what was your impression of the others? I mean, now you're see people who were doing the same thing that you were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.389428397540797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a group for Kenya. It was combined secondary education and a few nurses who are going to be doing nursing education. I think there might have been maybe 20 nurses out of the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you first gathered, what was your impression of the others? I mean, now you're see people who were doing the same thing that you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, of course, everybody was nervous and excited and just watching people. One couple we became good friends with. I can remember seeing them walk in and. I think I was pretty intimidated by most of these people because I always felt like everybody had more experience and was far more together than I. But like many of us feel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was, it was a great group. It was the fall of 1968. And so there was always the gathering around the TV station, TV to watch the news at night and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Were there other, there were other married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.122751108075057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was, it was a great group. It was the fall of 1968. And so there was always the gathering around the TV station, TV to watch the news at night and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Were there other, there were other married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We had a lot of married couples. Out of the 170 or so, I would say there were probably at least 30 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a lot of married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a big program, 170."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.279493975411599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it was. And we sent 150 finally. But one of the things that happened with that group, of course, it was during the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so there were, practically all of us, although Jim had a deferment because he had a pin in his leg that deferred him. And we planned to get married on September 21st. But there were, there were all these couples. [coughs] Excuse me. With September anniversaries, because they just quickly got married when they found out they could get into this Peace Corps program to keep the guy out of the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was very funny. Many of us share the same anniversary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were put up at the Hotel Paris."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.532771083790665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so there were, practically all of us, although Jim had a deferment because he had a pin in his leg that deferred him. And we planned to get married on September 21st. But there were, there were all these couples. [coughs] Excuse me. With September anniversaries, because they just quickly got married when they found out they could get into this Peace Corps program to keep the guy out of the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was very funny. Many of us share the same anniversary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were put up at the Hotel Paris."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.369745648656295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it was very funny. Many of us share the same anniversary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were put up at the Hotel Paris."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were there for, I think about a few, just a few days. And then we went up to Monroe, New York, where we did this language immersion for a full month, and we were not allowed any English between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. And, um, and then after that, we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was, how was the language training structured?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.629315615625055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were there for, I think about a few, just a few days. And then we went up to Monroe, New York, where we did this language immersion for a full month, and we were not allowed any English between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. And, um, and then after that, we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was, how was the language training structured?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was great. Somehow they placed us into, into classes based on our ability. So maybe the first week or few first few days we were just randomly selected. I don't remember. But then you were in a class with a similar, similar level of students and, um, and the instructor spoke Swahili the entire time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were great. They used a lot of body language and gesturing and, and, um, it was really, for me, the first time that I had ever been successful at learning a language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you taken language at the college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.369525451388957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were great. They used a lot of body language and gesturing and, and, um, it was really, for me, the first time that I had ever been successful at learning a language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you taken language at the college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had taken one semester of Italian, and I did that because I really regretted not having learned Italian from my grandfather but we weren't allowed to do that when we were kids. It was considered not being Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was the only language I had taken. Oh, I took Latin, of course, in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was, it must, it was very intense."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7439171682099524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had taken one semester of Italian, and I did that because I really regretted not having learned Italian from my grandfather but we weren't allowed to do that when we were kids. It was considered not being Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was the only language I had taken. Oh, I took Latin, of course, in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was, it must, it was very intense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a relatively isolated location."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1260740256210204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could walk into town or whatever, of course, but we still all stuck together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were newly married, as were most of the couples. So there were all those adjustments. I can remember one morning having a huge fight with Jim because it was before, it was after 6:00 in our room, we were getting ready for the day and I said something to him in English, and he corrected me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in Swahili. And I went nuts. But it was, that was what, it was so intense. Like for about the first two weeks, I felt like I didn't know anything. I think a lot of people felt this way. And then all of a sudden it started to fall into place and then we could communicate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he in the class at the same level as you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.362304472912245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were newly married, as were most of the couples. So there were all those adjustments. I can remember one morning having a huge fight with Jim because it was before, it was after 6:00 in our room, we were getting ready for the day and I said something to him in English, and he corrected me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in Swahili. And I went nuts. But it was, that was what, it was so intense. Like for about the first two weeks, I felt like I didn't know anything. I think a lot of people felt this way. And then all of a sudden it started to fall into place and then we could communicate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he in the class at the same level as you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were about, about the same level actually. So he was just being a brat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had anyone indicated that selection depended on your ability to learn Swahili?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.624782747680272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in Swahili. And I went nuts. But it was, that was what, it was so intense. Like for about the first two weeks, I felt like I didn't know anything. I think a lot of people felt this way. And then all of a sudden it started to fall into place and then we could communicate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he in the class at the same level as you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were about, about the same level actually. So he was just being a brat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had anyone indicated that selection depended on your ability to learn Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was that implication. Um. I don't remember it being stated because we didn't have to work in the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9164252752003024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were about, about the same level actually. So he was just being a brat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Had anyone indicated that selection depended on your ability to learn Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was that implication. Um. I don't remember it being stated because we didn't have to work in the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, you know, we were working in English and, and I just, well, I just think I know I felt like I just wanted to do everything as best I could because we really wanted to go to Kenya. And so learning Swahili was part of it. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a four week period?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1293614168892248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was that implication. Um. I don't remember it being stated because we didn't have to work in the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, you know, we were working in English and, and I just, well, I just think I know I felt like I just wanted to do everything as best I could because we really wanted to go to Kenya. And so learning Swahili was part of it. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a four week period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four weeks, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other training going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2548460187658053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, you know, we were working in English and, and I just, well, I just think I know I felt like I just wanted to do everything as best I could because we really wanted to go to Kenya. And so learning Swahili was part of it. That was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was a four week period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Four weeks, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other training going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were evening sessions. There were, um, there was some cross-cultural training going on. And then there were these awful T groups that were being led by, I'm thinking back on it, probably pretty unqualified people. I mean, they may have had the credentials, but I don't know if they were playing with us, I think. And that was very emotional, very traumatic for a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they trying to get married couples to probe whether?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7213251286225038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Separated them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what they did was put partners, like Jim was in T groups with spouses of people who were in my T group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were they trying to push as to whether you both wanted to go or one? Because that was an issue at times, because one of the couple were clearly committed, but the other wasn't and that led to problems once they got overseas."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9125834762472262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But what they did was put partners, like Jim was in T groups with spouses of people who were in my T group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were they trying to push as to whether you both wanted to go or one? Because that was an issue at times, because one of the couple were clearly committed, but the other wasn't and that led to problems once they got overseas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if they were very explicit about it or not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.361214168206452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if they were very explicit about it or not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't at that point. Well, I don't remember it at that point. And I think perhaps they didn't address it in the T groups because most of the people were not married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when we had the meetings with the psychiatrist, again, he didn't approach anything directly. And I had never been in the presence of a psychiatrist. I mean, this was not part of my family scene, number one. Well, there were probably plenty of crazy people, but nobody could afford a psychiatrist. So, I mean, I was so intimidated by this experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a one-on-one interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.623571298007169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They weren't at that point. Well, I don't remember it at that point. And I think perhaps they didn't address it in the T groups because most of the people were not married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But when we had the meetings with the psychiatrist, again, he didn't approach anything directly. And I had never been in the presence of a psychiatrist. I mean, this was not part of my family scene, number one. Well, there were probably plenty of crazy people, but nobody could afford a psychiatrist. So, I mean, I was so intimidated by this experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a one-on-one interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't the two of you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6269948148257405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a very funny thing that Ann Albright still remembers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We talked about my childhood, going camping, how many sisters and brothers I had, you know, just stuff that seemed like absolutely nothing to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very personable. And then when I saw the report he had written, he had written that I had, quote, an acute social awareness, unquote. And I remember cracking up, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you get to see the report?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2432034750935066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very personable. And then when I saw the report he had written, he had written that I had, quote, an acute social awareness, unquote. And I remember cracking up, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you get to see the report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is crazy. Before we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm not, I don't remember the exact mechanism. But yeah, we actually saw it and I remember just cracking up. It's like, oh really? He knows that from this chat that we had? Okay, well, whatever. I'm glad he came to a good conclusion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did, did you have to take psychological tests also, like the MMPI?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.003954907522847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm not, I don't remember the exact mechanism. But yeah, we actually saw it and I remember just cracking up. It's like, oh really? He knows that from this chat that we had? Okay, well, whatever. I'm glad he came to a good conclusion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did, did you have to take psychological tests also, like the MMPI?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember. But, but the psych, one of the interesting things about couples is that the psychiatrist announced that he was going to be meeting, he wanted to have a group meeting with all of the married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We thought, oh, what's he going to talk about, birth control or what? You know, we just. What he wanted to talk about was competition between couples and how we needed to be aware of that and how that had proven to be problems with Peace Corps couples because they had to work so closely together and they could be competitive. And, and he probably addressed desire to go too at that point. But so that was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this all during that four weeks or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.337727675025386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember. But, but the psych, one of the interesting things about couples is that the psychiatrist announced that he was going to be meeting, he wanted to have a group meeting with all of the married couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We thought, oh, what's he going to talk about, birth control or what? You know, we just. What he wanted to talk about was competition between couples and how we needed to be aware of that and how that had proven to be problems with Peace Corps couples because they had to work so closely together and they could be competitive. And, and he probably addressed desire to go too at that point. But so that was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this all during that four weeks or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, this was throughout the three months. This was back in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the four weeks, were you tested on your language ability."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7085863055837622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We thought, oh, what's he going to talk about, birth control or what? You know, we just. What he wanted to talk about was competition between couples and how we needed to be aware of that and how that had proven to be problems with Peace Corps couples because they had to work so closely together and they could be competitive. And, and he probably addressed desire to go too at that point. But so that was kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this all during that four weeks or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, this was throughout the three months. This was back in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the four weeks, were you tested on your language ability."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were. It was a, um, a verbal test and then they ranked us according to the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Foreign Service. FS one, two, three, four."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.120651450648625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, this was throughout the three months. This was back in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the four weeks, were you tested on your language ability."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were. It was a, um, a verbal test and then they ranked us according to the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Foreign Service. FS one, two, three, four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication that you really should be at least two or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.08722401314645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication that you really should be at least two or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I remember getting a one plus and being very happy with that. So they must have, you know, maybe the cutoff was one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, whatever it was, you know, I mean, that seems pretty paltry now but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the four weeks, had anyone dropped out of the program, that you were aware?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.652471125718278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I remember getting a one plus and being very happy with that. So they must have, you know, maybe the cutoff was one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, whatever it was, you know, I mean, that seems pretty paltry now but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the four weeks, had anyone dropped out of the program, that you were aware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh, so what happens after Monroe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.169412361909197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, whatever it was, you know, I mean, that seems pretty paltry now but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the four weeks, had anyone dropped out of the program, that you were aware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Uh, so what happens after Monroe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, so we go back to the Hotel Paris, and we continue with education classes at Columbia Teachers College. And, and then after a week or two, we were placed in the Catholic schools in New York City because of the public school strike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.381990570258268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, so we go back to the Hotel Paris, and we continue with education classes at Columbia Teachers College. And, and then after a week or two, we were placed in the Catholic schools in New York City because of the public school strike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stay with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. We stayed at the Hotel Paris for about a week, and then we went to our home stays with families in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who was running the program at Teachers College or who was head of the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.409864901553417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. We stayed at the Hotel Paris for about a week, and then we went to our home stays with families in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall who was running the program at Teachers College or who was head of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one person I remember was a Nigerian named Kojo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's the only person I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And within the, so now were the nurses were going to split off at this point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.010961001726018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one person I remember was a Nigerian named Kojo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's the only person I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And within the, so now were the nurses were going to split off at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they must have split off and done different educational training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the group then, I don't know, it may have been 120, 130 at that point. Were there any, any in the group who had previously taught?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.678845557473354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's the only person I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And within the, so now were the nurses were going to split off at this point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they must have split off and done different educational training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the group then, I don't know, it may have been 120, 130 at that point. Were there any, any in the group who had previously taught?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, there were. There were a few teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the majority had not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.541784638855992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, there were. There were a few teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the majority had not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority had not. The oldest person in our group was 26, and he had a, maybe it was 25 because he still needed to avoid the draft. He had a PhD in biochemistry and he had taught at the college level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there were some who had taught in secondary and junior high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the, the, uh, the basis of training, the assumption of training, was that you were starting from square one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.046427376506657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority had not. The oldest person in our group was 26, and he had a, maybe it was 25 because he still needed to avoid the draft. He had a PhD in biochemistry and he had taught at the college level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there were some who had taught in secondary and junior high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the, the, uh, the basis of training, the assumption of training, was that you were starting from square one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And Kenya had required that all of the teachers have bachelor's degree, but they did not require that they'd be certified teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's common to the British style system."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.607141529451841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there were some who had taught in secondary and junior high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the, the, uh, the basis of training, the assumption of training, was that you were starting from square one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And Kenya had required that all of the teachers have bachelor's degree, but they did not require that they'd be certified teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's common to the British style system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did an intensive education?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.23015725494649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And Kenya had required that all of the teachers have bachelor's degree, but they did not require that they'd be certified teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's common to the British style system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did an intensive education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For about a week."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.922396949940544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did an intensive education?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For about a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there also cultural and historical studies at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.580441055489493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For about a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there also cultural and historical studies at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That went on throughout, even when we, um, even when we were staying with families, there were certain days where we had to go back to Teachers College for various sessions, cross cultural and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember doing, also doing American studies, world communism?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.311601172766104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there also cultural and historical studies at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That went on throughout, even when we, um, even when we were staying with families, there were certain days where we had to go back to Teachers College for various sessions, cross cultural and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember doing, also doing American studies, world communism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I, I think I would remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it may have been dropped by then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.124001303073449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That went on throughout, even when we, um, even when we were staying with families, there were certain days where we had to go back to Teachers College for various sessions, cross cultural and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember doing, also doing American studies, world communism?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I, I think I would remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it may have been dropped by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So tell me about how the home stay went."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.804445892303832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I, I think I would remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it may have been dropped by then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So tell me about how the home stay went."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our home stay was very interesting. It was a, um, these people owned a brownstone in Brooklyn and it was in a neighborhood that had undergone significant revitalization through this neighborhood project. And so it was really a very nice neighborhood, surrounded by much less nice areas, near Prospect Park."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the, the home stay was arranged for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.227162102559814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So tell me about how the home stay went."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our home stay was very interesting. It was a, um, these people owned a brownstone in Brooklyn and it was in a neighborhood that had undergone significant revitalization through this neighborhood project. And so it was really a very nice neighborhood, surrounded by much less nice areas, near Prospect Park."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the, the home stay was arranged for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. And the family, they had one child who was a teenage boy, maybe 14, and the father worked for the Transit Authority. And the mother, I don't remember. She was out of the home, but she was from Barbados."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a Black family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.696846780622015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our home stay was very interesting. It was a, um, these people owned a brownstone in Brooklyn and it was in a neighborhood that had undergone significant revitalization through this neighborhood project. And so it was really a very nice neighborhood, surrounded by much less nice areas, near Prospect Park."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the, the home stay was arranged for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. And the family, they had one child who was a teenage boy, maybe 14, and the father worked for the Transit Authority. And the mother, I don't remember. She was out of the home, but she was from Barbados."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a Black family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they were just really great. We actually had our own little apartment at the top of the brownstone, so we had a very, really cushy, cushy home stay. Other people had much less luxurious and more, and frightening experiences in some of the places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the home stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.107607534024461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. And the family, they had one child who was a teenage boy, maybe 14, and the father worked for the Transit Authority. And the mother, I don't remember. She was out of the home, but she was from Barbados."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was a Black family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they were just really great. We actually had our own little apartment at the top of the brownstone, so we had a very, really cushy, cushy home stay. Other people had much less luxurious and more, and frightening experiences in some of the places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the home stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the expectation of how you would spend your time during the three weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6143302889190874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the expectation of how you would spend your time during the three weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I remember correctly, they gave us very little direction. I mean, during that time we were student teaching, so we were out of the home all day in the school. And we were at Bishop Ford High School in Brooklyn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, we went through all the adventures on the subway, taking the wrong train and all that stuff. But as far as a home stay, it was just kind of like interacting with them in the evenings. And, and we were there over Thanksgiving, so they had the whole family and that was really wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the your experience walking into a classroom. You had only had a week of educational training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9930003566902312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, we went through all the adventures on the subway, taking the wrong train and all that stuff. But as far as a home stay, it was just kind of like interacting with them in the evenings. And, and we were there over Thanksgiving, so they had the whole family and that was really wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the your experience walking into a classroom. You had only had a week of educational training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we may have had a little. Yeah, maybe it was about, yeah, only about a week. I was terrified, basically. But we each had a mentor, and mine was this very kind young Italian from Brooklyn. And so we kind of related on the Italian thing and he liked that. And, and, uh, I taught biology, which I was pretty comfortable with, although I had not really studied straight biology. It had all been medically oriented, human oriented. Um, but I felt pretty good about that. And being in the Catholic schools, that was very disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we didn't have to deal with a lot of class manage, classroom management basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What level was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2144448407669235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we may have had a little. Yeah, maybe it was about, yeah, only about a week. I was terrified, basically. But we each had a mentor, and mine was this very kind young Italian from Brooklyn. And so we kind of related on the Italian thing and he liked that. And, and, uh, I taught biology, which I was pretty comfortable with, although I had not really studied straight biology. It had all been medically oriented, human oriented. Um, but I felt pretty good about that. And being in the Catholic schools, that was very disciplined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we didn't have to deal with a lot of class manage, classroom management basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What level was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what grade?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4604942675188037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we didn't have to deal with a lot of class manage, classroom management basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What level was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what grade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6227714083542264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "High school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what grade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember, probably ninth or ten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the first day you were teaching or did you have a chance to observe for a week and then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8030793426158072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember, probably ninth or ten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So from the first day you were teaching or did you have a chance to observe for a week and then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no. Talked to him about lesson plans or something. But I know that we, it was such a short period that we kind of jumped right into it, but I don't remember the actual timing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point did you feel that there was no way in the world you would ever become a teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4733598664140017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh uh. I mean, it really wasn't what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I felt like I could do it. And looking back on that experience, I'm so grateful for having had that experience. It taught me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it taught me how to present to people, how to get an idea across, how to organize material for that, for presentations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you sort of come to that just because you were doing it or did someone guide you through? I mean, were you applying a theory or just sort of figuring it out as you went along?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.748177629348891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I felt like I could do it. And looking back on that experience, I'm so grateful for having had that experience. It taught me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it taught me how to present to people, how to get an idea across, how to organize material for that, for presentations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you sort of come to that just because you were doing it or did someone guide you through? I mean, were you applying a theory or just sort of figuring it out as you went along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew nothing about educational theory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you'd been exposed to some, I guess?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0535306992765454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it taught me how to present to people, how to get an idea across, how to organize material for that, for presentations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you sort of come to that just because you were doing it or did someone guide you through? I mean, were you applying a theory or just sort of figuring it out as you went along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew nothing about educational theory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you'd been exposed to some, I guess?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose. I mean, honestly, it must have been pretty, it must have. I must not have taken much of it in because I don't remember it at all. And there's so many other things I remember very vividly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true of many education courses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3928118880850504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew nothing about educational theory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you'd been exposed to some, I guess?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose. I mean, honestly, it must have been pretty, it must have. I must not have taken much of it in because I don't remember it at all. And there's so many other things I remember very vividly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true of many education courses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was three weeks of teaching and Jim was teaching at the same school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.769790986761167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I suppose. I mean, honestly, it must have been pretty, it must have. I must not have taken much of it in because I don't remember it at all. And there's so many other things I remember very vividly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true of many education courses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was three weeks of teaching and Jim was teaching at the same school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no other agenda other than occasionally going back to Columbia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.188656651956852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm sure. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was three weeks of teaching and Jim was teaching at the same school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no other agenda other than occasionally going back to Columbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, and living in this neighborhood, you know, kind of living in a cross-cultural experience and seeing how we felt about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone evaluate your teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.654062946618724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had no other agenda other than occasionally going back to Columbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, and living in this neighborhood, you know, kind of living in a cross-cultural experience and seeing how we felt about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone evaluate your teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They must have. And I think it was this mentor to whom each of us was assigned. It must have been because that would have been the only one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from the training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.171181051798582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And, and living in this neighborhood, you know, kind of living in a cross-cultural experience and seeing how we felt about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone evaluate your teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They must have. And I think it was this mentor to whom each of us was assigned. It must have been because that would have been the only one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. After the three week home stay and practice teaching, you're still in training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.745756724220647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They must have. And I think it was this mentor to whom each of us was assigned. It must have been because that would have been the only one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. After the three week home stay and practice teaching, you're still in training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a midpoint in the training when there was a selection board and you were told, you know, everything was okay or people disappeared?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.09352682002549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a midpoint in the training when there was a selection board and you were told, you know, everything was okay or people disappeared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I only remember people getting deselected at the end. I do remember that some people left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think up to the end it was voluntary. But there may have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I assume during the four weeks at Monroe you had sort of begun to develop friendships with couples."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.881696466694989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I only remember people getting deselected at the end. I do remember that some people left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think up to the end it was voluntary. But there may have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I assume during the four weeks at Monroe you had sort of begun to develop friendships with couples."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then that was dispersed when you went to the home stay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.757440518549988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think up to the end it was voluntary. But there may have been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I assume during the four weeks at Monroe you had sort of begun to develop friendships with couples."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then that was dispersed when you went to the home stay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you're back together again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.730489465055541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then that was dispersed when you went to the home stay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you're back together again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And then, of course, we all had our stories to tell from the home stays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And back at the Hotel Paris?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.811654961172824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you're back together again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And then, of course, we all had our stories to tell from the home stays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And back at the Hotel Paris?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for how long was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.568505512414249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And then, of course, we all had our stories to tell from the home stays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And back at the Hotel Paris?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for how long was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that must have been about another month, because we started training on October 7th, and then we ended like around the 20th of December or something like that, because I know, like I said, we went home for the holidays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had the chance to go back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.409450569349165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And for how long was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that must have been about another month, because we started training on October 7th, and then we ended like around the 20th of December or something like that, because I know, like I said, we went home for the holidays."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had the chance to go back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the last phase then of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.967696254251253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last phase was to come back together. I would guess they did the deselection. Well, that whole last time after training, we did a lot of the cross-cultural and more education. Those are the things I really remember, and more of those obnoxious T groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That kind of thing. And then when we all came back from our Christmas break, we had just a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe we came back on the 30th because I remember we had, or the 31st perhaps even, because we had a big New Year's Eve party in the hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, um, were there any volunteers who had served in Kenya who were part of the training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.630773615834726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That kind of thing. And then when we all came back from our Christmas break, we had just a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, maybe we came back on the 30th because I remember we had, or the 31st perhaps even, because we had a big New Year's Eve party in the hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were, um, were there any volunteers who had served in Kenya who were part of the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, no, not that I. You mean who were doing it a second time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, who were now trainee trainers? Returned volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.527810172612793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there were. Yes, there were. And I've always been mad at them because they gave me one piece of very bum advice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had all been in government schools. They were there before the Harambee schools. So they were in well-established schools, most if not all of which had electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in the cities. And I was having this huge stress about whether or not to take my sewing machine because it weighed 40 pounds, or weighed 30 pounds or whatever. It was heavy. And I thought, gosh, we're not going to have electricity. Why take it? But I'd love to be able to do stuff with girls and sewing. And they said, oh no, you'll have electricity. So my dad, who worked in a factory warehouse crating big things most of his life, crated it up beautifully for me. And I shipped it to Kenya, and it became a stand for our Peace Corps book locker for two years, because there was no electricity within 70 miles of where we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if any of the returned volunteers were married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.030900191791992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had all been in government schools. They were there before the Harambee schools. So they were in well-established schools, most if not all of which had electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in the cities. And I was having this huge stress about whether or not to take my sewing machine because it weighed 40 pounds, or weighed 30 pounds or whatever. It was heavy. And I thought, gosh, we're not going to have electricity. Why take it? But I'd love to be able to do stuff with girls and sewing. And they said, oh no, you'll have electricity. So my dad, who worked in a factory warehouse crating big things most of his life, crated it up beautifully for me. And I shipped it to Kenya, and it became a stand for our Peace Corps book locker for two years, because there was no electricity within 70 miles of where we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if any of the returned volunteers were married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that any were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I mean, was there any part of the training where they took the married couples aside just to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.589889101991102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were in the cities. And I was having this huge stress about whether or not to take my sewing machine because it weighed 40 pounds, or weighed 30 pounds or whatever. It was heavy. And I thought, gosh, we're not going to have electricity. Why take it? But I'd love to be able to do stuff with girls and sewing. And they said, oh no, you'll have electricity. So my dad, who worked in a factory warehouse crating big things most of his life, crated it up beautifully for me. And I shipped it to Kenya, and it became a stand for our Peace Corps book locker for two years, because there was no electricity within 70 miles of where we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if any of the returned volunteers were married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that any were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I mean, was there any part of the training where they took the married couples aside just to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I remember was with the psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So there was no physical fitness training that you did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.210987891101224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that any were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I mean, was there any part of the training where they took the married couples aside just to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I remember was with the psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So there was no physical fitness training that you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you went home for Christmas, did the families try to say, well, why don't you stay? I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.901097656779138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I remember was with the psychiatrist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So there was no physical fitness training that you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you went home for Christmas, did the families try to say, well, why don't you stay? I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, they knew us well enough. I mean, my parents knew I always did what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you were both very enthusiastic at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.667886285310153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when you went home for Christmas, did the families try to say, well, why don't you stay? I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, they knew us well enough. I mean, my parents knew I always did what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you were both very enthusiastic at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were. We were very excited. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So back to New York?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.120847265815002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were. We were very excited. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So back to New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Back to New York. But in Detroit, we had to evacuate our plane because the engine caught on fire. It was a little scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got back to New York, spent one or two days, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll talk a little bit about the selection, the final selection. Do you recall much about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.912052517572225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Back to New York. But in Detroit, we had to evacuate our plane because the engine caught on fire. It was a little scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got back to New York, spent one or two days, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll talk a little bit about the selection, the final selection. Do you recall much about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember people. I don't really remember being told we were selected. What I remember was the trauma of the people who were deselected, because two of them were good friends of ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how, how were they informed that they were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.76796607107682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember people. I don't really remember being told we were selected. What I remember was the trauma of the people who were deselected, because two of them were good friends of ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how, how were they informed that they were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't know. I think, I mean, they just told us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I, I don't, they must have been called into a meeting or something. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But that aside now you're ready to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.82464947046521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I, I don't, they must have been called into a meeting or something. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But that aside now you're ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And one of these friends actually appealed because it was based on false information and I can't remember what that was, something in an FBI check or something. And he did end up coming to Kenya about a week after the rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were still doing background checks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.91627718940579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. And one of these friends actually appealed because it was based on false information and I can't remember what that was, something in an FBI check or something. And he did end up coming to Kenya about a week after the rest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were still doing background checks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was something my family talked about, how the FBI had come around the neighborhood and all the neighbors said, oh, Mary's the nicest girl. We used to always buy donuts from her when she was selling them for her girls club. And that was all they could tell them about me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your record was pretty clean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.129196877117543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were still doing background checks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was something my family talked about, how the FBI had come around the neighborhood and all the neighbors said, oh, Mary's the nicest girl. We used to always buy donuts from her when she was selling them for her girls club. And that was all they could tell them about me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your record was pretty clean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're ready to go now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.476885419019492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was something my family talked about, how the FBI had come around the neighborhood and all the neighbors said, oh, Mary's the nicest girl. We used to always buy donuts from her when she was selling them for her girls club. And that was all they could tell them about me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your record was pretty clean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you're ready to go now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, had you then had packed up everything for two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.7492412580487535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, had you then had packed up everything for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And we made all the mistakes you could make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and then we had this New Year's Eve party and, um, everybody got pretty loaded. And I remember we were on the 17th floor of the hotel, and I was, the window, for some reason our window was open and I was trying to close it and I got really nervous about the window. Anyway, ended up going to Kenya with a horrendous cold. But we went to the airport on New Year's Day, where we all were watching the Rose Bowl, and left at half time. So it was only three months later that we knew, we found out that Ohio State had beat USC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a charter flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.499156953387504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And we made all the mistakes you could make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and then we had this New Year's Eve party and, um, everybody got pretty loaded. And I remember we were on the 17th floor of the hotel, and I was, the window, for some reason our window was open and I was trying to close it and I got really nervous about the window. Anyway, ended up going to Kenya with a horrendous cold. But we went to the airport on New Year's Day, where we all were watching the Rose Bowl, and left at half time. So it was only three months later that we knew, we found out that Ohio State had beat USC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a charter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a charter flight. It was 150 of us. And then a small group going to Uganda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that would, that would be, uh. And that was your first overseas flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.110174392652782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and then we had this New Year's Eve party and, um, everybody got pretty loaded. And I remember we were on the 17th floor of the hotel, and I was, the window, for some reason our window was open and I was trying to close it and I got really nervous about the window. Anyway, ended up going to Kenya with a horrendous cold. But we went to the airport on New Year's Day, where we all were watching the Rose Bowl, and left at half time. So it was only three months later that we knew, we found out that Ohio State had beat USC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a charter flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a charter flight. It was 150 of us. And then a small group going to Uganda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that would, that would be, uh. And that was your first overseas flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. And it was glorious. It was KLM and they just wined and dined us all the way to Amsterdam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was Amsterdam and then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.009841416533309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amsterdam and then we landed in Beirut and we were the first plane to land in Beirut after the Christmas bombing of the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so there were bombed out planes on the airport and soldiers. And we were escorted from the plane into the terminal where we had to stay. We could use the restrooms. We had to stay there and escorted back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No pictures. So that was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any point, did up to this point, had your specific assignment been discussed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.1328414492912335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just that we would be in a secondary school. Oh, well, that's not true. Let me back up. About three weeks before we were to go, one of the Peace Corps doctors found out that myself and one other woman in the program were medical technologists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came to New York to meet with us because they wanted to open a medical technology school at the medical school, and he wanted to recruit us to do that. Well, at this point, Jim and I had already decided we wanted to be in a rural school. We were really excited about working together. We definitely want to be in the bush, but here's the job I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. So anyway, he, you know, he went through the whole sales pitch and tried to convince us. And, um, and I just said, you know, really, I can't make this decision until I see it. So and this other woman said the same thing. So he met our plane, which arrived at 4:00 in the morning. And, um, when can I, when can I take you to medical school? Oh my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.703157165879149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came to New York to meet with us because they wanted to open a medical technology school at the medical school, and he wanted to recruit us to do that. Well, at this point, Jim and I had already decided we wanted to be in a rural school. We were really excited about working together. We definitely want to be in the bush, but here's the job I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. So anyway, he, you know, he went through the whole sales pitch and tried to convince us. And, um, and I just said, you know, really, I can't make this decision until I see it. So and this other woman said the same thing. So he met our plane, which arrived at 4:00 in the morning. And, um, when can I, when can I take you to medical school? Oh my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Bob Amman. And he picked us up like 9:30 the next morning. And we went there and it was just, it was an incredible job. It would have been so cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.3368412954212765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So. So anyway, he, you know, he went through the whole sales pitch and tried to convince us. And, um, and I just said, you know, really, I can't make this decision until I see it. So and this other woman said the same thing. So he met our plane, which arrived at 4:00 in the morning. And, um, when can I, when can I take you to medical school? Oh my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Bob Amman. And he picked us up like 9:30 the next morning. And we went there and it was just, it was an incredible job. It would have been so cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in Nairobi. And so we would have lived in an apartment. Jim would have gone to his school. I would have gone to the medical school. And it was like, well, God, we could stay home and do that. You know, that's not why we came here. But it was a very hard decision for me because I really wanted to do this. There was really a need. But the other woman did stay and do it, so that made it easier for me. But then we said, put us as far away from Nairobi as you can, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So. So when you were going to look at the med tech school, you still didn't know what your alternative was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.929823661579196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Bob Amman. And he picked us up like 9:30 the next morning. And we went there and it was just, it was an incredible job. It would have been so cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in Nairobi. And so we would have lived in an apartment. Jim would have gone to his school. I would have gone to the medical school. And it was like, well, God, we could stay home and do that. You know, that's not why we came here. But it was a very hard decision for me because I really wanted to do this. There was really a need. But the other woman did stay and do it, so that made it easier for me. But then we said, put us as far away from Nairobi as you can, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So. So when you were going to look at the med tech school, you still didn't know what your alternative was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not at this point. And so we stayed, we stayed in Nairobi a long time, like I'd say at least ten days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were Kenya schools are on a January beginning?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.366470735087995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in Nairobi. And so we would have lived in an apartment. Jim would have gone to his school. I would have gone to the medical school. And it was like, well, God, we could stay home and do that. You know, that's not why we came here. But it was a very hard decision for me because I really wanted to do this. There was really a need. But the other woman did stay and do it, so that made it easier for me. But then we said, put us as far away from Nairobi as you can, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So. So when you were going to look at the med tech school, you still didn't know what your alternative was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not at this point. And so we stayed, we stayed in Nairobi a long time, like I'd say at least ten days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were Kenya schools are on a January beginning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Three months of school, one month vacation, which was so, so lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay when you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.045025598874069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. Three months of school, one month vacation, which was so, so lovely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you stay when you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed at the Brenner Hotel. And it was interesting because for some reason, and I don't really know why, Jim and I and a few other couples were kind of overflow. So we got to stay in this much nicer hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was mosquito nets and breakfast, tea brought at 7:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was the group still together as a group and were you doing some in-country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.383361776526743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed at the Brenner Hotel. And it was interesting because for some reason, and I don't really know why, Jim and I and a few other couples were kind of overflow. So we got to stay in this much nicer hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was mosquito nets and breakfast, tea brought at 7:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was the group still together as a group and were you doing some in-country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we must have been. But to tell you the truth, I don't remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't remember the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.17698984756388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we must have been. But to tell you the truth, I don't remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't remember the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember being at the office. And I remember people getting their assignments. And there was a delay on our assignment because of this med tech school possibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe we just stayed longer than some because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But people were gradually going out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.641099830626533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember being at the office. And I remember people getting their assignments. And there was a delay on our assignment because of this med tech school possibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe we just stayed longer than some because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But people were gradually going out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gradually dispersing, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression of that as it was happening?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.156777589585037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe we just stayed longer than some because of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But people were gradually going out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gradually dispersing, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression of that as it was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. You know, I don't really remember. I just remember being so thrilled with everything. I was so excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I mean, but there must have been people getting totally urban assignments and some getting bush assignments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.618641766205596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gradually dispersing, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your impression of that as it was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow. You know, I don't really remember. I just remember being so thrilled with everything. I was so excited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I mean, but there must have been people getting totally urban assignments and some getting bush assignments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. One couple, one couple we were close to were put at Starehe School in Nairobi, one of the finest schools in the city. And they lived in an apartment. And later when we saw them, I remember her being shocked that women came to our door with cabbages on their heads. She just couldn't believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were people protesting? You know, I don't, I don't want to be in Nairobi and get me out of here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.335585413176401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. You know, the most dramatic thing I remember were the couple of people who freaked out and wanted to just get the hell out of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, they were very dramatic. One guy had been dramatic all through training, but it had been gung-ho dramatic. Now it was like, get me out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they seemed to take up an awful lot of the space and energy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, who was director then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9284282368626675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I mean, they were very dramatic. One guy had been dramatic all through training, but it had been gung-ho dramatic. Now it was like, get me out of here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they seemed to take up an awful lot of the space and energy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, who was director then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Poole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you first meet with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.587142485402964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they seemed to take up an awful lot of the space and energy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, who was director then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Poole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you first meet with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess pretty, pretty quickly. I remember he had a tea or picnic or something for us at his home, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall in the few days while you were in Nairobi before going out any kind of, the Peace Corps Kenya trying to imprint what they were all about and what their expectation of you was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.319047206003293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bob Poole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did you first meet with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess pretty, pretty quickly. I remember he had a tea or picnic or something for us at his home, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall in the few days while you were in Nairobi before going out any kind of, the Peace Corps Kenya trying to imprint what they were all about and what their expectation of you was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure because I'm sure they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rules and regs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.132274673336992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess pretty, pretty quickly. I remember he had a tea or picnic or something for us at his home, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall in the few days while you were in Nairobi before going out any kind of, the Peace Corps Kenya trying to imprint what they were all about and what their expectation of you was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure because I'm sure they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rules and regs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Oh, yes. You know, I remember that that happened, but the details totally escape me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. If, uh, I mean, it's kind of a personal question. Had you been advised that it would be best not to become pregnant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.035860748152214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure because I'm sure they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rules and regs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Oh, yes. You know, I remember that that happened, but the details totally escape me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. If, uh, I mean, it's kind of a personal question. Had you been advised that it would be best not to become pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what they had said throughout, and I don't remember if the question was raised by someone or if it was just part of the drill. What they said is, it's no problem having a child while you're here as long as you can continue to do your job. But if you cannot continue your assignment as a Peace Corps volunteer, then we will send you home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your understanding of the policy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.039845275724682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Oh, yes. You know, I remember that that happened, but the details totally escape me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. If, uh, I mean, it's kind of a personal question. Had you been advised that it would be best not to become pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what they had said throughout, and I don't remember if the question was raised by someone or if it was just part of the drill. What they said is, it's no problem having a child while you're here as long as you can continue to do your job. But if you cannot continue your assignment as a Peace Corps volunteer, then we will send you home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your understanding of the policy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was clearly our understanding, and it was the policy at the time. I think there were five babies born in our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you finally got your assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.15538363969409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what they had said throughout, and I don't remember if the question was raised by someone or if it was just part of the drill. What they said is, it's no problem having a child while you're here as long as you can continue to do your job. But if you cannot continue your assignment as a Peace Corps volunteer, then we will send you home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your understanding of the policy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was clearly our understanding, and it was the policy at the time. I think there were five babies born in our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you finally got your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, did you have any idea of where and what it was all about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.2837595996601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was clearly our understanding, and it was the policy at the time. I think there were five babies born in our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So you finally got your assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, did you have any idea of where and what it was all about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only on the map. And, um, and the way, this is pretty amazing, the way teachers were assigned to Taranganya Secondary School was because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.152789629209999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only on the map. And, um, and the way, this is pretty amazing, the way teachers were assigned to Taranganya Secondary School was because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Taranganya. T-A-R-A-N-apostrophe-G-A-N-Y-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, was because the head of the mission there, a man named Roy Cooper, had gone to Peace Corps and requested teachers. I mean, had he known what they were getting, he might not have done that. But so when teachers were assigned to Taranganya, Roy was in Nairobi and he was going to be our transport upcountry. And so he met us and he was a little nervous guy, but he was going to tell us everything we needed and he really was very helpful. You know, we bought the, the Chinese version of the Petra Max lantern because it cost 1/10 as much and the kinds of pots and things like that. So we went shopping with him. We bought a water filter, which was something we wouldn't have thought of, and then we would have been 350 miles from a water filter. I don't remember a lot of health training, which our daughter got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.836432921344444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Taranganya. T-A-R-A-N-apostrophe-G-A-N-Y-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, was because the head of the mission there, a man named Roy Cooper, had gone to Peace Corps and requested teachers. I mean, had he known what they were getting, he might not have done that. But so when teachers were assigned to Taranganya, Roy was in Nairobi and he was going to be our transport upcountry. And so he met us and he was a little nervous guy, but he was going to tell us everything we needed and he really was very helpful. You know, we bought the, the Chinese version of the Petra Max lantern because it cost 1/10 as much and the kinds of pots and things like that. So we went shopping with him. We bought a water filter, which was something we wouldn't have thought of, and then we would have been 350 miles from a water filter. I don't remember a lot of health training, which our daughter got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I was, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I don't remember that. And I know I would have, I would remember that. So I think they pretty much. We did meet with Peace Corps docs and they probably did say, don't drink the water, and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall being issued a Peace Corps medical kit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.048061151264202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the medical kit was. And, and we were issued a Peace Corps book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was so glorious. And they were really considerate in that they put, they had four different versions and they put different versions with people in the same region so we could switch them around. So we had our own little lending library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, uh, the, the headmaster of the school was an American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.831179056960224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the medical kit was. And, and we were issued a Peace Corps book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was so glorious. And they were really considerate in that they put, they had four different versions and they put different versions with people in the same region so we could switch them around. So we had our own little lending library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, uh, the, the headmaster of the school was an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, the headmaster of the school was a Luo, a Kenyan who was of the Luo tribe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Cooper, who was he?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.701310063289137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was so glorious. And they were really considerate in that they put, they had four different versions and they put different versions with people in the same region so we could switch them around. So we had our own little lending library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, uh, the, the headmaster of the school was an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, the headmaster of the school was a Luo, a Kenyan who was of the Luo tribe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Cooper, who was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the head of the mission. The school was not on the mission. The school was a private."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of mission was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.557011181432374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, the headmaster of the school was a Luo, a Kenyan who was of the Luo tribe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Cooper, who was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the head of the mission. The school was not on the mission. The school was a private."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of mission was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elim Pentecostal from upstate New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And Cooper was an American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.507790201591526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the head of the mission. The school was not on the mission. The school was a private."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of mission was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elim Pentecostal from upstate New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And Cooper was an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. From Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had been in Kenya how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.453100223990583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elim Pentecostal from upstate New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And Cooper was an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. From Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had been in Kenya how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had been there about two years, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was he and his wife?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.50344469332287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. From Detroit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had been in Kenya how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had been there about two years, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was he and his wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and his wife and three, three or four children, three children who went off to boarding school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the mission then started the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.670494103692077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had been there about two years, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was he and his wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and his wife and three, three or four children, three children who went off to boarding school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the mission then started the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the way I understand it is that the mission, yeah, they must have, I mean, they supplied the only teachers at the beginning and I don't, I don't know exactly. Yeah, they did pretty much start the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the Harambee school was sort of private schools being started throughout the country because there weren't enough public schools."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.744993448546753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and his wife and three, three or four children, three children who went off to boarding school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the mission then started the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the way I understand it is that the mission, yeah, they must have, I mean, they supplied the only teachers at the beginning and I don't, I don't know exactly. Yeah, they did pretty much start the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the Harambee school was sort of private schools being started throughout the country because there weren't enough public schools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. There weren't enough positions in government schools for all the students. And so the Harambee concept was self help, that communities through whatever means, perhaps with the help of a mission, or they had a member of Parliament or whatever, would start their own school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the government had decided to begin to support them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.938881609496391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the way I understand it is that the mission, yeah, they must have, I mean, they supplied the only teachers at the beginning and I don't, I don't know exactly. Yeah, they did pretty much start the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the Harambee school was sort of private schools being started throughout the country because there weren't enough public schools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. There weren't enough positions in government schools for all the students. And so the Harambee concept was self help, that communities through whatever means, perhaps with the help of a mission, or they had a member of Parliament or whatever, would start their own school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the government had decided to begin to support them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did that coincide with your going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.043201788329323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. There weren't enough positions in government schools for all the students. And so the Harambee concept was self help, that communities through whatever means, perhaps with the help of a mission, or they had a member of Parliament or whatever, would start their own school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then the government had decided to begin to support them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did that coincide with your going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The first year we were there, Taranganya had one, form one was government students and forms two, three, and four were Harambee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the difference being?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.63358245472756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The first year we were there, Taranganya had one, form one was government students and forms two, three, and four were Harambee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the difference being?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The difference being that the Harambee students were usually kids who could not, who didn't have enough qualifications, enough knowledge, to get accepted to a government school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they paid about three times as much in school fees because there was no government subsidy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, was that a source of tension between form one and the others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.148424949697288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The difference being that the Harambee students were usually kids who could not, who didn't have enough qualifications, enough knowledge, to get accepted to a government school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they paid about three times as much in school fees because there was no government subsidy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, was that a source of tension between form one and the others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, Mr. Cooper picks you up in Nairobi and helps you with buying of the stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.831583277441432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they paid about three times as much in school fees because there was no government subsidy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that, was that a source of tension between form one and the others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, Mr. Cooper picks you up in Nairobi and helps you with buying of the stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the journey, your first journey out of Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 18.701759197157145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, Mr. Cooper picks you up in Nairobi and helps you with buying of the stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the journey, your first journey out of Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, it was 350 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he have a Land Rover?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.3569769685762685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rutted and dirt and some places it actually had grass down the middle with one track. Yeah. And but on that drive down that road, there were a lot of, um, sisal plants, which you probably know look like gigantic yucca."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Spiky."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they have that asparagus stock up the middle. And on these were civet cats who had climbed up. So the whole thing was, you know, their eyes would glow. So we were just exhausted. And, you know, we were never scared. It was just like, whoa, where are we going?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we get to the mission house at about midnight, and we spent the night there. But, um, I think it was good that we had each other. But we're also very common sensical Midwestern people. And I think that served us well, because one of the first things the wife told us, this Mrs. Cooper, was that we had to watch out because just that day she'd taken a dish towel out of the drawer and there was a spitting cobra under it. And then she also told us we had to sleep with the shutters closed because leopards would leap through our windows. And we all took this, we took this with definitely a grain of salt. It's like, you know, I haven't heard of any Peace Corps volunteers being killed by leaping leopards, so I will take my chances.\n\nSo we spent one night there and then moved into a house on the mission that was vacant because our little bungalow at the school that the government was now building wasn't quite completed. They had completed one and the headmaster had moved into that. And then we were going to get the next one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Can you describe the school compound?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8410855206402985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then they have that asparagus stock up the middle. And on these were civet cats who had climbed up. So the whole thing was, you know, their eyes would glow. So we were just exhausted. And, you know, we were never scared. It was just like, whoa, where are we going?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we get to the mission house at about midnight, and we spent the night there. But, um, I think it was good that we had each other. But we're also very common sensical Midwestern people. And I think that served us well, because one of the first things the wife told us, this Mrs. Cooper, was that we had to watch out because just that day she'd taken a dish towel out of the drawer and there was a spitting cobra under it. And then she also told us we had to sleep with the shutters closed because leopards would leap through our windows. And we all took this, we took this with definitely a grain of salt. It's like, you know, I haven't heard of any Peace Corps volunteers being killed by leaping leopards, so I will take my chances.\n\nSo we spent one night there and then moved into a house on the mission that was vacant because our little bungalow at the school that the government was now building wasn't quite completed. They had completed one and the headmaster had moved into that. And then we were going to get the next one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Can you describe the school compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, across the road from the mission. And it was, gosh, probably 50 acres, it would be about my guess. Oblong or rectangular shape. And the houses were at the west end and there was a road that went all the way around the compound past our houses, across past the soccer field, round by the dormitories and on the other side out to the road. And between our house and the soccer field was about a 30 yard long, 10 foot high hedge of lantana. So gorgeous and smelled so wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the buildings concrete block?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.378983911822553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we get to the mission house at about midnight, and we spent the night there. But, um, I think it was good that we had each other. But we're also very common sensical Midwestern people. And I think that served us well, because one of the first things the wife told us, this Mrs. Cooper, was that we had to watch out because just that day she'd taken a dish towel out of the drawer and there was a spitting cobra under it. And then she also told us we had to sleep with the shutters closed because leopards would leap through our windows. And we all took this, we took this with definitely a grain of salt. It's like, you know, I haven't heard of any Peace Corps volunteers being killed by leaping leopards, so I will take my chances.\n\nSo we spent one night there and then moved into a house on the mission that was vacant because our little bungalow at the school that the government was now building wasn't quite completed. They had completed one and the headmaster had moved into that. And then we were going to get the next one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Can you describe the school compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, across the road from the mission. And it was, gosh, probably 50 acres, it would be about my guess. Oblong or rectangular shape. And the houses were at the west end and there was a road that went all the way around the compound past our houses, across past the soccer field, round by the dormitories and on the other side out to the road. And between our house and the soccer field was about a 30 yard long, 10 foot high hedge of lantana. So gorgeous and smelled so wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the buildings concrete block?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were concrete block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tin roof or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.6407208787932746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They were concrete block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tin roof or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Asbestos compositions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tin roof. We had the Mabati, the corrugated tin, just like we have in this house. Anyway, our little house that we moved into was a kitchen that was six by eight, and then three small rooms, which we used as an office, and the living room and our bedroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And it was a boarding school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.267467643103639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Asbestos compositions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tin roof. We had the Mabati, the corrugated tin, just like we have in this house. Anyway, our little house that we moved into was a kitchen that was six by eight, and then three small rooms, which we used as an office, and the living room and our bedroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And it was a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a boarding school. The kids had very, very, very poor accommodations. The school building itself was one strip of four classrooms with a small section in the middle where the office was. And we had a Gestetner copy machine in the office, which was indispensable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was, there was one class for each form."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.96385293678182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tin roof. We had the Mabati, the corrugated tin, just like we have in this house. Anyway, our little house that we moved into was a kitchen that was six by eight, and then three small rooms, which we used as an office, and the living room and our bedroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And it was a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a boarding school. The kids had very, very, very poor accommodations. The school building itself was one strip of four classrooms with a small section in the middle where the office was. And we had a Gestetner copy machine in the office, which was indispensable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was, there was one class for each form."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One class for each form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they stayed and the teachers came to them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.597349304668914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One class for each form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they stayed and the teachers came to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. That's right. Yeah. The forms did not move from their room. And the, the dormitory was very, very inadequate. The students slept two to each level of a bunk bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, you know, an outhouse that was overflowing and really, really poor food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the first couple of weeks, you were living at the mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.379443586011005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, you know, an outhouse that was overflowing and really, really poor food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for the first couple of weeks, you were living at the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, now were you able to set up housekeeping or were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.421603984456672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Six months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, now were you able to set up housekeeping or were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was, it was your own house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.755066647477372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was, it was your own house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was our own house, yeah. It was a house that was vacant on the mission. And Peace Corps rented it from them until our house was done. And, and there were definitely tensions between us and the missionaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, you know, they wanted us to go to the Pentecostal church and we said thank you, but no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the adjustment to, you know, buying food, cooking meals?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.061185163863748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was our own house, yeah. It was a house that was vacant on the mission. And Peace Corps rented it from them until our house was done. And, and there were definitely tensions between us and the missionaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, you know, they wanted us to go to the Pentecostal church and we said thank you, but no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the adjustment to, you know, buying food, cooking meals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was so easy for us. I love to cook. I didn't know at that time just how much I love to cook. But I'm very grateful for having learned to cook in Kenya because I can make anything from scratch. And I can make anything from anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, where did you get the food?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.290205737626385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, you know, they wanted us to go to the Pentecostal church and we said thank you, but no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the adjustment to, you know, buying food, cooking meals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was so easy for us. I love to cook. I didn't know at that time just how much I love to cook. But I'm very grateful for having learned to cook in Kenya because I can make anything from scratch. And I can make anything from anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, where did you get the food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of people who came to our door with pineapples, cabbage, tomatoes, onions. Four miles from us was a little town of Kehancha where we got our mail and there was a market once a week so we could go there and we could buy meat. But the meat there was really pretty gross. And remember, I had just graduated from laboratory science school, so my last course had been parasitology. So every time I walked into the meat market, it was like tapeworms, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get eggs and chicken?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.71630337978566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of people who came to our door with pineapples, cabbage, tomatoes, onions. Four miles from us was a little town of Kehancha where we got our mail and there was a market once a week so we could go there and we could buy meat. But the meat there was really pretty gross. And remember, I had just graduated from laboratory science school, so my last course had been parasitology. So every time I walked into the meat market, it was like tapeworms, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get eggs and chicken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got eggs locally. Jim alluded last night to the little girl who would steal our eggs. She would walk into this, our little store room and come out with two eggs that she would then offer to sell to us. I'm sure she's done just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then once a month, we would, well, about every couple, I'd say from once a week to every two weeks, we'd go into Migori, which was 26 miles away. And that was a proper town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you, how would you get there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.795892644206289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got eggs locally. Jim alluded last night to the little girl who would steal our eggs. She would walk into this, our little store room and come out with two eggs that she would then offer to sell to us. I'm sure she's done just fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then once a month, we would, well, about every couple, I'd say from once a week to every two weeks, we'd go into Migori, which was 26 miles away. And that was a proper town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you, how would you get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Country bus. There was a bus that went on our road and continued for 11 miles to a place called Nyamtiro, where it would turn around, it would spend the night, and turn around and come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was virtually the Tanzanian border, wasn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.264598963245938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Really close. We were, we were probably crow's flight five miles from the border, but up at Nyamtiro, it was right on the border."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had two busses. One was, uh, one was named Jamluo and the other was named Love in Tokyo. And they were supposed to come a half an hour, an hour apart. But they raced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so you just had to jump on whichever one stopped and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Cooper didn't offer to take you into market, or into Migori?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.593414215700873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooper was a, he was a very kind person. He was very inept and really turned a blind eye to a lot of really bad stuff that was going on because he didn't want to deal with it, but he was basically a good person. And so he would do things like drive sick people to the dispensary and occasionally we would catch a ride with him up to Kisii, which was 70 miles away. But we really tried to distance ourselves from the mission because for one thing, when we got there and we lived on the mission, everybody assumed we were missionaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this was something we wanted to just definitely counter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, you know, we, we had been cautioned about mini skirts and all of this, of course, but, but long shorts were fine. And, and so that separated us from the mission. And then we would sit on our front porch and drink beer, and that separated us from the missionaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mission's relation to the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.326015795223192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so this was something we wanted to just definitely counter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, you know, we, we had been cautioned about mini skirts and all of this, of course, but, but long shorts were fine. And, and so that separated us from the mission. And then we would sit on our front porch and drink beer, and that separated us from the missionaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the mission's relation to the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they supplied teachers at this point. At this point, they were completely out of power as far as the administration of the school, particularly with the government students. But they did have teachers. And tell you the truth, I can't remember if Roy, he must, he must have taught Bible. Bible was a subject that all students do, and I'm sure he taught Bible. I don't remember him teaching anything else. We had the headmaster. We had a wonderful, wonderful Kenyan named Jerry Magovey, who was a science teacher. And he and I set up the science lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Jerry a university graduate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.809896043485422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they supplied teachers at this point. At this point, they were completely out of power as far as the administration of the school, particularly with the government students. But they did have teachers. And tell you the truth, I can't remember if Roy, he must, he must have taught Bible. Bible was a subject that all students do, and I'm sure he taught Bible. I don't remember him teaching anything else. We had the headmaster. We had a wonderful, wonderful Kenyan named Jerry Magovey, who was a science teacher. And he and I set up the science lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Jerry a university graduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a teachers college at least, I don't remember. But the other thing at our school compound were two brand new buildings built by, um, Crossroads Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the symbol of the Black and the white hand shaking and [sneezes]. Excuse me. And one was to be a library and one a science laboratory. And the science laboratory had the benches in and the faucets and things. Of course, there was no running water, but they had the, uh, the fixtures. And there was a storeroom that was just packed with books that had been sent. So our two big projects were to do the library, Jim and I did the library, and then Jerry and I did the science lab, to get that set up, which was just wonderful fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many, how many other staff members were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.469007461093114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the symbol of the Black and the white hand shaking and [sneezes]. Excuse me. And one was to be a library and one a science laboratory. And the science laboratory had the benches in and the faucets and things. Of course, there was no running water, but they had the, uh, the fixtures. And there was a storeroom that was just packed with books that had been sent. So our two big projects were to do the library, Jim and I did the library, and then Jerry and I did the science lab, to get that set up, which was just wonderful fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many, how many other staff members were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually it was just the four of us, and intermittently we would have other staff members. Now, after six months, we moved to the school compound, which was glorious, and then a new couple came to the mission. They were exactly our age. They arrived, their names were Bill and Juanita Foy. They arrived during Richard Nixon's inaugural address. Well, no, that's right. They came January 20th. So we overlapped living on the mission. They must have been in a different house. Yeah, there were three houses there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they arrived during the speech, which was certainly fortuitous, as they got all excited about it. We were completely depressed. Anyway, and they were awful. They were just awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were they from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0481573593742146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they arrived during the speech, which was certainly fortuitous, as they got all excited about it. We were completely depressed. Anyway, and they were awful. They were just awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were they from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were from, they had gone, he had gone to Oral Roberts University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, honestly don't remember where they were from. I mean, we never even called them by their first names. We just wanted to keep as much distance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were missionaries."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.386841510415794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were from, they had gone, he had gone to Oral Roberts University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, honestly don't remember where they were from. I mean, we never even called them by their first names. We just wanted to keep as much distance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were missionaries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were missionaries who had been called to Taranganya. But then when they found out that they had outdoor plumbing and a rain tank for water, they discovered that really they were called to teach at the Bible school in Nairobi. And thank God, after about six months they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for the six months they were teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7631572337953267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, honestly don't remember where they were from. I mean, we never even called them by their first names. We just wanted to keep as much distance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were missionaries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were missionaries who had been called to Taranganya. But then when they found out that they had outdoor plumbing and a rain tank for water, they discovered that really they were called to teach at the Bible school in Nairobi. And thank God, after about six months they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for the six months they were teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a teacher and she was forced into it, shamed into it, I should say, by the headmaster. She said, I came here to be a wife, not a teacher. And he said, but you speak English. And so she did teach English. And then when they left, I took over her English classes. And I had a very funny experience where one student wrote in an essay that they could tell I was not a missionary because I did not wear my glasses perched upon my nose or my skirts about my ankles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great description. Let's talk a little bit about your adjustment of walking into this classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.181285815328141, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were missionaries who had been called to Taranganya. But then when they found out that they had outdoor plumbing and a rain tank for water, they discovered that really they were called to teach at the Bible school in Nairobi. And thank God, after about six months they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for the six months they were teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a teacher and she was forced into it, shamed into it, I should say, by the headmaster. She said, I came here to be a wife, not a teacher. And he said, but you speak English. And so she did teach English. And then when they left, I took over her English classes. And I had a very funny experience where one student wrote in an essay that they could tell I was not a missionary because I did not wear my glasses perched upon my nose or my skirts about my ankles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great description. Let's talk a little bit about your adjustment of walking into this classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you at all familiar with the Kenya education system?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.645873128142378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a teacher and she was forced into it, shamed into it, I should say, by the headmaster. She said, I came here to be a wife, not a teacher. And he said, but you speak English. And so she did teach English. And then when they left, I took over her English classes. And I had a very funny experience where one student wrote in an essay that they could tell I was not a missionary because I did not wear my glasses perched upon my nose or my skirts about my ankles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great description. Let's talk a little bit about your adjustment of walking into this classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you at all familiar with the Kenya education system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the expectations built into it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.624534726101701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the expectations built into it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had gotten a fairly good orientation to that. And I don't remember if that was in Kenya or in New York because. [tape break] Let's see, I was saying that we had been prepared that for things like that the students would not be a discipline problem, that we would be expected to teach to the syllabus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we couldn't get too freewheeling because they had to take the, the Kenyan version of the Cambridge exam to get their high school diploma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have copies of the syllabus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.138371917890779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had gotten a fairly good orientation to that. And I don't remember if that was in Kenya or in New York because. [tape break] Let's see, I was saying that we had been prepared that for things like that the students would not be a discipline problem, that we would be expected to teach to the syllabus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we couldn't get too freewheeling because they had to take the, the Kenyan version of the Cambridge exam to get their high school diploma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have copies of the syllabus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And but the students you were beginning to teach, you would not see through the exam because they would go through four years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.598191019878643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that we couldn't get too freewheeling because they had to take the, the Kenyan version of the Cambridge exam to get their high school diploma."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have copies of the syllabus?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And but the students you were beginning to teach, you would not see through the exam because they would go through four years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Only some of our, the fourth and third formers when we started. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. And your initial teaching was? What was your assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.307532263208014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught biology, chemistry to kids who had never seen ice. It was a challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, geography. Math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and one other thing. Oh, health science or health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were only teaching form one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.67596575704693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and one other thing. Oh, health science or health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were only teaching form one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. We were teaching all the forms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just, we sat down. We had a staff meeting. It was just Jerry Magovey, Mr. Obiero, the headmaster, Jim and myself and Roy. And divvied up the courses. And I'm almost sure he only taught Bible. But then when other missionaries came, they did teach some English or some physics or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how many periods a day were you teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.417739730052144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. We were teaching all the forms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just, we sat down. We had a staff meeting. It was just Jerry Magovey, Mr. Obiero, the headmaster, Jim and myself and Roy. And divvied up the courses. And I'm almost sure he only taught Bible. But then when other missionaries came, they did teach some English or some physics or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how many periods a day were you teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that sounds like it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.014732139989223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it must have been, I wouldn't be surprised if it was eight periods a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like four in the morning, four in the afternoon. That may, it may not have been eight. It may have been six."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was all day. All day, every day, kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did, when did school start?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.238591266654692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like four in the morning, four in the afternoon. That may, it may not have been eight. It may have been six."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was all day. All day, every day, kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did, when did school start?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It started about the first week of January. I think we were there about a week before it started. But of course, it was supposed to start then but many students didn't show up, which was something we didn't understand, and learned that what was happening is they were out begging for school fees. And they would come with enough money to pay for two weeks and then they would disappear again. It was so painful, so hard, and it seemed to always be the best students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your initial introduction to the classroom and the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.8362020118720048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not as a specific incident, but just as an overall impression. I can remember just being totally blown away when the whole classroom stood up. I mean, I didn't grow up in circumstances where anybody stood up for everybody, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also really, oh, I know. I think they couldn't say Beverwyck. And at that time, I had taken Jim's name. I just took my own name back later. And so they couldn't say Beverwyck. And so they called us Mr. Jim and Mrs. Jim. And it just made me crazy. So I finally got them to call me Mrs. Mary. That was fine. I just did not want to be called Mrs. Jim. And the other thing that I remember it being very hard to adjust to, but that was, was fine, was madam. The madam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So just some of those cultural things were just kind of, um,, not really. Well, they were just, they were strange to us, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to the point you started teaching, you'd been in country for?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9291133465244497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I also really, oh, I know. I think they couldn't say Beverwyck. And at that time, I had taken Jim's name. I just took my own name back later. And so they couldn't say Beverwyck. And so they called us Mr. Jim and Mrs. Jim. And it just made me crazy. So I finally got them to call me Mrs. Mary. That was fine. I just did not want to be called Mrs. Jim. And the other thing that I remember it being very hard to adjust to, but that was, was fine, was madam. The madam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So just some of those cultural things were just kind of, um,, not really. Well, they were just, they were strange to us, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to the point you started teaching, you'd been in country for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three weeks. Did you get any chance or did you begin to use your Swahili?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.032348162804944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So just some of those cultural things were just kind of, um,, not really. Well, they were just, they were strange to us, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Up to the point you started teaching, you'd been in country for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three weeks. Did you get any chance or did you begin to use your Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah. We tried it out different times. And once we got up to Taranganya, we had to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But only off the school compound?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1470535142277156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three weeks. Did you get any chance or did you begin to use your Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah. We tried it out different times. And once we got up to Taranganya, we had to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But only off the school compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we didn't, we didn't very often speak Swahili with the students because they were learning English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a school rule?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2745039046974618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah. We tried it out different times. And once we got up to Taranganya, we had to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But only off the school compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we didn't, we didn't very often speak Swahili with the students because they were learning English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a school rule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, I don't remember it being a school rule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But back to your initial teaching, were there, did they understand your spoken English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4161154496638464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, we didn't, we didn't very often speak Swahili with the students because they were learning English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a school rule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, I don't remember it being a school rule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But back to your initial teaching, were there, did they understand your spoken English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, they did, pretty well. I mean, there were certain words, wish I could remember what some of them were now, but we didn't have much trouble communicating. We, actually, um, I don't remember that we were told this term of special English, but I think we both slipped pretty easily into that, of speaking clearly and articulating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And dropping slang."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5734616107376072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no, I don't remember it being a school rule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But back to your initial teaching, were there, did they understand your spoken English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, they did, pretty well. I mean, there were certain words, wish I could remember what some of them were now, but we didn't have much trouble communicating. We, actually, um, I don't remember that we were told this term of special English, but I think we both slipped pretty easily into that, of speaking clearly and articulating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And dropping slang."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were, you were able to understand the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:579", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7482906785973413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, they did, pretty well. I mean, there were certain words, wish I could remember what some of them were now, but we didn't have much trouble communicating. We, actually, um, I don't remember that we were told this term of special English, but I think we both slipped pretty easily into that, of speaking clearly and articulating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And dropping slang."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were, you were able to understand the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them. There were some who really didn't belong in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How quickly did you learn school, names and begin to distinguish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9425451984414903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were, you were able to understand the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them. There were some who really didn't belong in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How quickly did you learn school, names and begin to distinguish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I think really quickly. I don't remember that being a problem at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it was it a coed school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.158383553823878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of them. There were some who really didn't belong in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How quickly did you learn school, names and begin to distinguish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I think really quickly. I don't remember that being a problem at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it was it a coed school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was all boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. How, how did the initial teaching go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.398203948693198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, I think really quickly. I don't remember that being a problem at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it was it a coed school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was all boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. How, how did the initial teaching go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it went all right. Um. You know, again, back to my hang ups about writing. I just, I just felt like I really was not equipped to correct essays, that I didn't know enough about writing myself. But then when I realized what it meant in Kenya, I was okay with it because it was so basic. It was so basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any form four classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.664671054103553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was all boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. How, how did the initial teaching go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it went all right. Um. You know, again, back to my hang ups about writing. I just, I just felt like I really was not equipped to correct essays, that I didn't know enough about writing myself. But then when I realized what it meant in Kenya, I was okay with it because it was so basic. It was so basic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any form four classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had form four probably for geography or biology or something, but not English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall the students being concerned because they were about to face the exam?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2897173507451267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had form four probably for geography or biology or something, but not English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall the students being concerned because they were about to face the exam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tremendously. I can remember one time we were doing something in biology that had to do with botany, and so I wanted to take them out, or I did take them out on a little field trip around the compound looking at different specimens, and they were really pissed. It's like, Madame, is this on the syllabus?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, very challenging because they were so, so concerned about knowing what they needed to know for that exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't take the exams that required a lab component?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.061379445364354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, very challenging because they were so, so concerned about knowing what they needed to know for that exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't take the exams that required a lab component?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was all whatever they took was going to be a, they could be examined with paper and pencil."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.512643828182616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was all whatever they took was going to be a, they could be examined with paper and pencil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I think biology falls into that category."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.014048697980684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was all whatever they took was going to be a, they could be examined with paper and pencil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I think biology falls into that category."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whereas chemistry doesn't. Okay. So there was pressure there. Make you uncomfortable or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.0790724666428195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whereas chemistry doesn't. Okay. So there was pressure there. Make you uncomfortable or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it did, because it seemed really restrictive. And neither Jim nor I wanted to just do what the students wanted us to do, which was to just copy from a book onto the board for them to copy into their exercise books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was an adjustment for them to get used to our teaching style and there were some kids who challenged it. But as I was telling you last night, when we met these people 26 years later, they said things to us like, you taught us how to think. We can't ask for more than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been easy with the lower forms to sort of open up the teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.643413851825355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it did, because it seemed really restrictive. And neither Jim nor I wanted to just do what the students wanted us to do, which was to just copy from a book onto the board for them to copy into their exercise books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was an adjustment for them to get used to our teaching style and there were some kids who challenged it. But as I was telling you last night, when we met these people 26 years later, they said things to us like, you taught us how to think. We can't ask for more than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been easy with the lower forms to sort of open up the teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was easier for a couple of reasons. One, because they were not already so much into that system, but also they were the government students, and they really were much sharper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tended to be better."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.270459835361505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it was an adjustment for them to get used to our teaching style and there were some kids who challenged it. But as I was telling you last night, when we met these people 26 years later, they said things to us like, you taught us how to think. We can't ask for more than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been easy with the lower forms to sort of open up the teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was easier for a couple of reasons. One, because they were not already so much into that system, but also they were the government students, and they really were much sharper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tended to be better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any professional contact with the principal, in other words, with the headmaster?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.856066483735005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was easier for a couple of reasons. One, because they were not already so much into that system, but also they were the government students, and they really were much sharper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They tended to be better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any professional contact with the principal, in other words, with the headmaster?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Daily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he, did he come in and observe you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.033013009238688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember him doing that. He was very nervous, very threatened by Jim. He was sure that Jim wanted his job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, we, we tried to just maintain a friendly relationship with him, but it did get difficult. And actually, I'll let Jim tell you about this whole thing where we actually asked Peace Corps to come out and mediate a disagreement with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it really involved Jim mostly. I mean, he wasn't threatened by me. I was just a dumb woman, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the first six months you're living on the mission, you're teaching full time. Did it fall into place fairly quickly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.019222234895318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it did. You know, one of the things that you have as a Peace Corps volunteer that you don't have here is a lack of distraction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you're there and it's your life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and to be working in the same job as your partner really was so wonderful. We were able to do that very well. And we had brought a, Jim had brought his typewriter. So we had our manual typewriter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a duplicating machine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:623", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.243580260994799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you're there and it's your life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and to be working in the same job as your partner really was so wonderful. We were able to do that very well. And we had brought a, Jim had brought his typewriter. So we had our manual typewriter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a duplicating machine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a duplicating machine. So we did a lot of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have extracurricular responsibilities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.603978067772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and to be working in the same job as your partner really was so wonderful. We were able to do that very well. And we had brought a, Jim had brought his typewriter. So we had our manual typewriter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a duplicating machine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a duplicating machine. So we did a lot of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have extracurricular responsibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. And I can't remember if we were told we had to or it was just so exciting to do the library and the lab. Those were long term projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of an expectation at boarding schools."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 15.115531186413332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a duplicating machine. So we did a lot of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have extracurricular responsibilities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. And I can't remember if we were told we had to or it was just so exciting to do the library and the lab. Those were long term projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of an expectation at boarding schools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it was. And Jim coached, uh, track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he coach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:629", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.683923540459259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. And I can't remember if we were told we had to or it was just so exciting to do the library and the lab. Those were long term projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's kind of an expectation at boarding schools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it was. And Jim coached, uh, track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he coach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Track. And I think Jerry coached the soccer. And then I had a wonderful extracurricular thing, but it wasn't with the school. I met, we had friends at a school right on the Tanzanian border, Peace Corps friends, and we went down to meet them. And it was a school that was run by Maryknolls. And there were two American priests, one American nun, and then several Kenyan nuns, Kenyan or Tanzanian. And, um, they, the, the American nun was a nurse or maybe even a nurse midwife. And she had started, and some of the Kenyans were nurses. And so they had started doing a prenatal and well baby clinic where they would go around once a month to four different sites and hold clinics way out in the bush, like 20 miles into the bush from where we lived.\n\nAnd when they found out I was a med tech, they got very excited and wanted me to participate in this. So went back to the school, talked to the headmaster, and asked him if I could be free on Fridays if I taught all of my classes Monday through Thursday. And he agreed. And so every Friday they would come from Isibania, this town on the border, and pick me up in Father Dave's white Toyota pickup. And with usually the American and one or two Kenyan nuns and myself, we'd pile on the back of the pickup and pick up all these mamas and go off on these tracks and set up this clinic under like just a thatched roof, like maybe a primary school. And I had a microscope that was, that used the sun, of course, as its light source and a hand-cranked urine centrifuge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was the Maryknolls, they had all the equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:631", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.315470600510287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it was. And Jim coached, uh, track."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did he coach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Track. And I think Jerry coached the soccer. And then I had a wonderful extracurricular thing, but it wasn't with the school. I met, we had friends at a school right on the Tanzanian border, Peace Corps friends, and we went down to meet them. And it was a school that was run by Maryknolls. And there were two American priests, one American nun, and then several Kenyan nuns, Kenyan or Tanzanian. And, um, they, the, the American nun was a nurse or maybe even a nurse midwife. And she had started, and some of the Kenyans were nurses. And so they had started doing a prenatal and well baby clinic where they would go around once a month to four different sites and hold clinics way out in the bush, like 20 miles into the bush from where we lived.\n\nAnd when they found out I was a med tech, they got very excited and wanted me to participate in this. So went back to the school, talked to the headmaster, and asked him if I could be free on Fridays if I taught all of my classes Monday through Thursday. And he agreed. And so every Friday they would come from Isibania, this town on the border, and pick me up in Father Dave's white Toyota pickup. And with usually the American and one or two Kenyan nuns and myself, we'd pile on the back of the pickup and pick up all these mamas and go off on these tracks and set up this clinic under like just a thatched roof, like maybe a primary school. And I had a microscope that was, that used the sun, of course, as its light source and a hand-cranked urine centrifuge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, that was the Maryknolls, they had all the equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had, yeah. Yes, that's right. That was their stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that a situation where you had the chance to use more Swahili?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.6857661734694895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had, yeah. Yes, that's right. That was their stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that a situation where you had the chance to use more Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I used more Swahili. I had a young Kenyan who they knew and had chosen to train in how to do parasitology and urinalysis. So it was really, really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd be out there most of the day, start back around 3:00 in the afternoon. So that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months, what kind of contact did you have with Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.206406859410544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I used more Swahili. I had a young Kenyan who they knew and had chosen to train in how to do parasitology and urinalysis. So it was really, really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd be out there most of the day, start back around 3:00 in the afternoon. So that was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months, what kind of contact did you have with Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. You know, we were, being way up country we were kind of the poor relations, which was fine with us. The only time it wasn't fine with us was when we would hear about shipments of books and they'd say. We'd get a letter, come into the office and pick up all the books you need. And by the time we'd get there two months later, of course, the Central Province people would have scarfed them all up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you, did you have any regular communication with the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4276627893957325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. You know, we were, being way up country we were kind of the poor relations, which was fine with us. The only time it wasn't fine with us was when we would hear about shipments of books and they'd say. We'd get a letter, come into the office and pick up all the books you need. And by the time we'd get there two months later, of course, the Central Province people would have scarfed them all up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you, did you have any regular communication with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that I remember. They might have sent out regular newsletter or something, but I don't remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a town six miles away where you got your mail."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.141847543773036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that I remember. They might have sent out regular newsletter or something, but I don't remember it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a town six miles away where you got your mail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, four miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four miles. And was there a telephone at the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.935386159747817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a town six miles away where you got your mail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, four miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four miles. And was there a telephone at the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so the only."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.81709573305313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, four miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four miles. And was there a telephone at the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so the only."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even think there was a telephone in, in Kehancha. I think the closest one would have been Migori."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And things were relatively, politically, were relatively quiet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.574550814503477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so the only."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even think there was a telephone in, in Kehancha. I think the closest one would have been Migori."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And things were relatively, politically, were relatively quiet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, it was five years following independence. They were quiet until Tom Mboya was assassinated. Vice president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in the second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:653", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.351297301856142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, it was five years following independence. They were quiet until Tom Mboya was assassinated. Vice president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was quite a while before we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps at all concerned with your being so close to the Tanzania border?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.390330335395713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was quite a while before we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps at all concerned with your being so close to the Tanzania border?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any communication from Peace Corps during that whole episode. And, you know, even if there had been, unless they had gotten in a Land Rover and driven out to check on us, it would have been two weeks before we got a letter anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone visit from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.100367039328572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was quite a while before we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps at all concerned with your being so close to the Tanzania border?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any communication from Peace Corps during that whole episode. And, you know, even if there had been, unless they had gotten in a Land Rover and driven out to check on us, it would have been two weeks before we got a letter anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone visit from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. This Bob Siegel, who was, um, I don't remember if he was deputy director at the time. I think he might have been. He's the one who came out to mediate this dispute. And I think, I think he visited us one other time too, just kind of on rounds. And then for a short while, excuse me, our second year, they put a staff member in Kisumu, which was about 140 miles from us. And, um, I don't think that idea lasted too long, but it seemed like a good idea to have staff up country some ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little closer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.8892967103650795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any communication from Peace Corps during that whole episode. And, you know, even if there had been, unless they had gotten in a Land Rover and driven out to check on us, it would have been two weeks before we got a letter anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone visit from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. This Bob Siegel, who was, um, I don't remember if he was deputy director at the time. I think he might have been. He's the one who came out to mediate this dispute. And I think, I think he visited us one other time too, just kind of on rounds. And then for a short while, excuse me, our second year, they put a staff member in Kisumu, which was about 140 miles from us. And, um, I don't think that idea lasted too long, but it seemed like a good idea to have staff up country some ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little closer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he visited us, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know who that was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.394193469586518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And he visited us, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know who that was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was Chuck Coskran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chuck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chuck Coskran and Kathy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months, did you take any vacation, any time off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:665", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.215770521762797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was Chuck Coskran."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chuck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chuck Coskran and Kathy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months, did you take any vacation, any time off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:669", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.204654965139256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go into Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did go into Nairobi because we taught for three months. And you know, thinking about the timing. We probably didn't spend that much time, it was, probably was less than a week in Nairobi. It had to be, because I know we started teaching in January, it just seemed like forever. But anyway, when we. It was January, February, March, so we had the month of April off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did a safari. One couple that were good friends of ours asked us to safari with them, which was a wonderful thing because he was a man who came back and got a PhD in ornithology, and so he knew I wasn't a birder at the time. We didn't even own binoculars, but he knew a lot about the animals. And so we really, we had a great time and learned a lot about the animals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a vehicle?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:671", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.671838850154729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did go into Nairobi because we taught for three months. And you know, thinking about the timing. We probably didn't spend that much time, it was, probably was less than a week in Nairobi. It had to be, because I know we started teaching in January, it just seemed like forever. But anyway, when we. It was January, February, March, so we had the month of April off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did a safari. One couple that were good friends of ours asked us to safari with them, which was a wonderful thing because he was a man who came back and got a PhD in ornithology, and so he knew I wasn't a birder at the time. We didn't even own binoculars, but he knew a lot about the animals. And so we really, we had a great time and learned a lot about the animals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we rented a car, rented a tiny Land Rover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where, in Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.297446982379601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Nairobi, yeah. So we hitched into Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to show you this dent in my wedding ring. See this dent right here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that comes from where a rock hit me when Jim was getting bored when we were hitchhiking. We'd been sitting there for 3 hours, and he started throwing these little rocks at me. And one hit my ring. I still have the evidence. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was possible to hitch, I mean, maybe it took a long time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.540058002937778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that comes from where a rock hit me when Jim was getting bored when we were hitchhiking. We'd been sitting there for 3 hours, and he started throwing these little rocks at me. And one hit my ring. I still have the evidence. But, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was possible to hitch, I mean, maybe it took a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would take the bus to Kisii."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, usually to Kisii, and then we'd start to hitch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No public transport from Kisii in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.605009880170097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, usually to Kisii, and then we'd start to hitch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No public transport from Kisii in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure there was, but it must have been, like waiting until night or, yeah, I don't remember why it was. But if you got picked up by an Indian in a Mercedes, it was really fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really scary. But you'd get there faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you rented a vehicle?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.227788755744552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure there was, but it must have been, like waiting until night or, yeah, I don't remember why it was. But if you got picked up by an Indian in a Mercedes, it was really fast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really scary. But you'd get there faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you rented a vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then went off and did the safari loop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you went first?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:689", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5864319508272793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really scary. But you'd get there faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you rented a vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then went off and did the safari loop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where you went first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went to the Mara Masai and Serengeti and Ngorongoro Crater and Olduvai Gorge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you trying to camp your way around?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:693", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.427693766453431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went to the Mara Masai and Serengeti and Ngorongoro Crater and Olduvai Gorge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you trying to camp your way around?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were, yeah, we camped all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we camped everywhere. And then we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had forgotten whether that was possible."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:695", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.919659740503812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were, yeah, we camped all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we camped everywhere. And then we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had forgotten whether that was possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we'd use the lodges for showers and drinks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then back to school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:697", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.466288600559791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we camped everywhere. And then we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had forgotten whether that was possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we'd use the lodges for showers and drinks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then back to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then back to school. And in the meantime, we had acquired a couple of dogs and a cat, and we had our little family back there at school. So we always had a student housesit for us to take care of the animals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the big change was then you moved into your own house on the compound."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:699", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.07365400062199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we'd use the lodges for showers and drinks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then back to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then back to school. And in the meantime, we had acquired a couple of dogs and a cat, and we had our little family back there at school. So we always had a student housesit for us to take care of the animals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the big change was then you moved into your own house on the compound."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that change your relation to the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.33148696930314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God, it was like a breath of fresh air."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we were away from the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It definitely made that, made our, our difference from being missionaries more clear to everybody else. And we didn't have to go there. We would only walk over there if Roy had picked up the mail or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was the headmaster's relation with the mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:707", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.146096632559045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we were away from the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It definitely made that, made our, our difference from being missionaries more clear to everybody else. And we didn't have to go there. We would only walk over there if Roy had picked up the mail or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was the headmaster's relation with the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, tolerant, but usually very annoyed. He didn't, he didn't subscribe to their brand of religion and if I remember correctly, he didn't practice any Christian religion that I remember. But he couldn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any resentment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:709", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4956629250656057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It definitely made that, made our, our difference from being missionaries more clear to everybody else. And we didn't have to go there. We would only walk over there if Roy had picked up the mail or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was the headmaster's relation with the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, tolerant, but usually very annoyed. He didn't, he didn't subscribe to their brand of religion and if I remember correctly, he didn't practice any Christian religion that I remember. But he couldn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any resentment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was resentment. He didn't like them in some of their heavy handed things when the Foys came. Well, actually, that's not true. The Foys stayed such a short time. It was, I don't know, four months, six months. But then another couple came, a family, Harold and Ernestine Malone. And we went from nice guy Roy to pain in the neck Foys to unbelievable Malones. They were horrible. We by this time had gotten a grant and we were buying books. We got two grants, one to buy books and one to buy lab equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the grants from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.315633240821735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was resentment. He didn't like them in some of their heavy handed things when the Foys came. Well, actually, that's not true. The Foys stayed such a short time. It was, I don't know, four months, six months. But then another couple came, a family, Harold and Ernestine Malone. And we went from nice guy Roy to pain in the neck Foys to unbelievable Malones. They were horrible. We by this time had gotten a grant and we were buying books. We got two grants, one to buy books and one to buy lab equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the grants from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't remember. And we didn't have anything to do with getting them. So I think it's something, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably was, it wasn't something we had to write for or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you simply got to notice that you got X amount of money?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:717", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.093374371384858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably was, it wasn't something we had to write for or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you simply got to notice that you got X amount of money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had this money. And so Jim and I, particularly Jim, did a lot of research on books that would be appropriate. We bought the African Writers Series and, and all kinds of things. Well, including some natural history books. And this became a huge battle with the missionaries that they were not going to allow any books that talked about evolution in the library. This isn't your library. This is a government school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just became this. And the headmaster was totally on our side and we did indeed keep these books in the library. But there were just all kinds of bizarre episodes like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In relation to the library, did you train librarians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:719", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.548193745983175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had this money. And so Jim and I, particularly Jim, did a lot of research on books that would be appropriate. We bought the African Writers Series and, and all kinds of things. Well, including some natural history books. And this became a huge battle with the missionaries that they were not going to allow any books that talked about evolution in the library. This isn't your library. This is a government school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it just became this. And the headmaster was totally on our side and we did indeed keep these books in the library. But there were just all kinds of bizarre episodes like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In relation to the library, did you train librarians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a student."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Set up a stamp and due date and card system?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:723", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.380486106152068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had a student."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Set up a stamp and due date and card system?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we did, although it was not fail safe. And we realized one day that the entire African Writer Series was being pilfered and it became this big. Oh gosh, Jim should tell you about it. But anyway, it became this huge thing at the school and the headmaster went on a rampage and wanted to expel these kids that had stolen books. It's like, you know, if they'd stolen something else, but they're stealing books, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You want them to read, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you decorate the library? You had a building for the library?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:725", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.867206784613408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we did, although it was not fail safe. And we realized one day that the entire African Writer Series was being pilfered and it became this big. Oh gosh, Jim should tell you about it. But anyway, it became this huge thing at the school and the headmaster went on a rampage and wanted to expel these kids that had stolen books. It's like, you know, if they'd stolen something else, but they're stealing books, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You want them to read, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you decorate the library? You had a building for the library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a wonderful library. And with this grant, we were able to actually buy furniture. So we had, they were probably locally made, but nice tables and chairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have [inaudible]?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:727", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4080075384593425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You want them to read, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you decorate the library? You had a building for the library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a wonderful library. And with this grant, we were able to actually buy furniture. So we had, they were probably locally made, but nice tables and chairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very professional and, I think so. You'll have to ask Jim about that. Yeah, he spent most of his time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other part of the grant was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:729", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0088972649548245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a wonderful library. And with this grant, we were able to actually buy furniture. So we had, they were probably locally made, but nice tables and chairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have [inaudible]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very professional and, I think so. You'll have to ask Jim about that. Yeah, he spent most of his time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other part of the grant was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For lab equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you share the grant with? There was another science teacher."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:731", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.676552516616471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was very professional and, I think so. You'll have to ask Jim about that. Yeah, he spent most of his time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other part of the grant was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For lab equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you share the grant with? There was another science teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I mean, he, you know, that was definitely his thing. And I worked with him on that, but it was for the school and it was, you know, and we bought beakers and pipettes and all these kinds of fun things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were able to start lab work by the second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.008089526687002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. I mean, he, you know, that was definitely his thing. And I worked with him on that, but it was for the school and it was, you know, and we bought beakers and pipettes and all these kinds of fun things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were able to start lab work by the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And but it was mostly just demonstration because there was not enough for kids to do things. And sometimes we would let them do things but. And we had a little four cubic foot kerosene refrigerator that made four ice cubes. So I rushed over to the lab with these four ice cubes to demonstrate the states of matter for the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the, well, you're still in the first year. You've taken the vacation. You're back. You're now moved into the house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:737", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.786766140763335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And but it was mostly just demonstration because there was not enough for kids to do things. And sometimes we would let them do things but. And we had a little four cubic foot kerosene refrigerator that made four ice cubes. So I rushed over to the lab with these four ice cubes to demonstrate the states of matter for the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the, well, you're still in the first year. You've taken the vacation. You're back. You're now moved into the house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you able to hire anyone to be a steward or help out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.318629045292594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the, well, you're still in the first year. You've taken the vacation. You're back. You're now moved into the house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you able to hire anyone to be a steward or help out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, you know, that was the ongoing Peace Corps dilemma. Should you hire help? Well, if you hire help, it supplies a job. But then it can be perceived as being privileged. And, you know, we went around and around. Well, finally, we, there was a young girl. She was about 15, who had worked at the mission, and she got pregnant and they fired her and expelled her from the mission. So we hired her and she, she did ironing for us and wash, and with the charcoal iron.\n\nAnd then we hired her brother to sweep the house and just pick up. And, and he was very funny. His name was Peter, she was Hannah. And we would come back from school and Peter would be sleeping in our, in our spare room with our battery powered radio blasting away with a broom in his hand. And then, but then we kept Hannah, but until she married and moved away. And then we hired students. There were some students who were just so wonderful and had such a difficult time with school fees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it would help with their fees."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:741", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.909587828102882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you able to hire anyone to be a steward or help out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, you know, that was the ongoing Peace Corps dilemma. Should you hire help? Well, if you hire help, it supplies a job. But then it can be perceived as being privileged. And, you know, we went around and around. Well, finally, we, there was a young girl. She was about 15, who had worked at the mission, and she got pregnant and they fired her and expelled her from the mission. So we hired her and she, she did ironing for us and wash, and with the charcoal iron.\n\nAnd then we hired her brother to sweep the house and just pick up. And, and he was very funny. His name was Peter, she was Hannah. And we would come back from school and Peter would be sleeping in our, in our spare room with our battery powered radio blasting away with a broom in his hand. And then, but then we kept Hannah, but until she married and moved away. And then we hired students. There were some students who were just so wonderful and had such a difficult time with school fees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it would help with their fees."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we just paid their school fees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during all this time you were doing all the cooking and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:745", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.073565219880101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we just paid their school fees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during all this time you were doing all the cooking and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, I did, I always did the cooking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And John Ochieng, this one student who we really loved, he, he washed the dishes every day after school and swept the house. And then Efraim Jimbowie, who was another wonderful kid, he, he did our laundry and then he would housesit for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the, did you clear it with the headmaster before you hired students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:749", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.263660765284075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And John Ochieng, this one student who we really loved, he, he washed the dishes every day after school and swept the house. And then Efraim Jimbowie, who was another wonderful kid, he, he did our laundry and then he would housesit for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the, did you clear it with the headmaster before you hired students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't, if we, if it was in any way going to be an issue, we would have but it was never an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, coming toward the end of the second semester, which would be the end, sort of the end of the first year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.959623072537861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't, if we, if it was in any way going to be an issue, we would have but it was never an issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, coming toward the end of the second semester, which would be the end, sort of the end of the first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:753", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.399581191708735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, coming toward the end of the second semester, which would be the end, sort of the end of the first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Then we had another month off and we'd gotten a letter from Peace Corps that there was going to be a medical safari to the Northern Frontier District of Turkana. And are you interested? Like, yes! So we applied and we were accepted for that and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you busily training Jim to be a med tech?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:755", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.888423546343039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Then we had another month off and we'd gotten a letter from Peace Corps that there was going to be a medical safari to the Northern Frontier District of Turkana. And are you interested? Like, yes! So we applied and we were accepted for that and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you busily training Jim to be a med tech?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was great because what we did is give smallpox and tuberculosis vaccines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was the agency organizing it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:757", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.431581718158932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Then we had another month off and we'd gotten a letter from Peace Corps that there was going to be a medical safari to the Northern Frontier District of Turkana. And are you interested? Like, yes! So we applied and we were accepted for that and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you busily training Jim to be a med tech?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was great because what we did is give smallpox and tuberculosis vaccines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And who was the agency organizing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all Peace Corps, but I don't know if there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:761", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.236520639702385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all Peace Corps, but I don't know if there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must been the Ministry of Health because we had Ministry of Health Land Rovers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but you know who probably was part of it? I don't remember that. But, um, and Ministry of Health people, Kenyans, who were up there too. And so there were 16 of us, I believe. It was four, four or five groups of four, so 16 or 20. And we were, we were paired up in these groups of four and given locations that we traveled around to for a month. And it was fabulous. And we just had, we must have good karma or something because we drew all these sites on the lake. And traveled with this couple camping and the driver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were Kenyans who were part of your team?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:763", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7072451552248715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It must been the Ministry of Health because we had Ministry of Health Land Rovers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but you know who probably was part of it? I don't remember that. But, um, and Ministry of Health people, Kenyans, who were up there too. And so there were 16 of us, I believe. It was four, four or five groups of four, so 16 or 20. And we were, we were paired up in these groups of four and given locations that we traveled around to for a month. And it was fabulous. And we just had, we must have good karma or something because we drew all these sites on the lake. And traveled with this couple camping and the driver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were Kenyans who were part of your team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a Kenyan driver who went along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no Kenyan Ministry of Health official?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:765", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.2302723946943015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but you know who probably was part of it? I don't remember that. But, um, and Ministry of Health people, Kenyans, who were up there too. And so there were 16 of us, I believe. It was four, four or five groups of four, so 16 or 20. And we were, we were paired up in these groups of four and given locations that we traveled around to for a month. And it was fabulous. And we just had, we must have good karma or something because we drew all these sites on the lake. And traveled with this couple camping and the driver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they were Kenyans who were part of your team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a Kenyan driver who went along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no Kenyan Ministry of Health official?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But no. No. We were the only ones giving the vaccine. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, when you got to a village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:767", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4780804385492234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a Kenyan driver who went along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no Kenyan Ministry of Health official?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But no. No. We were the only ones giving the vaccine. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, when you got to a village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to say, now that I think about it, I think what happened is that the Ministry of Health people were in. They would meet us at the villages I think, you know, because they did not travel with us. And I think they probably went out from Lodwar to the different sites intermittently rather than just, because we left Lodwar and then we didn't come back to Lodwar for a month. We went from, like we'd stay at a site for four days or three days or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it all camping out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:769", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7534227094991373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But no. No. We were the only ones giving the vaccine. You know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, when you got to a village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to say, now that I think about it, I think what happened is that the Ministry of Health people were in. They would meet us at the villages I think, you know, because they did not travel with us. And I think they probably went out from Lodwar to the different sites intermittently rather than just, because we left Lodwar and then we didn't come back to Lodwar for a month. We went from, like we'd stay at a site for four days or three days or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it all camping out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we camped the whole time. We gave 5,000 inoculations of each one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to function in Swahili up there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:771", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9482474549990412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just going to say, now that I think about it, I think what happened is that the Ministry of Health people were in. They would meet us at the villages I think, you know, because they did not travel with us. And I think they probably went out from Lodwar to the different sites intermittently rather than just, because we left Lodwar and then we didn't come back to Lodwar for a month. We went from, like we'd stay at a site for four days or three days or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it all camping out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we camped the whole time. We gave 5,000 inoculations of each one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to function in Swahili up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there was, you know, somewhat, but it was mostly Turkana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you depended on the Ministry of Health officials."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:773", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.164719394443379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we camped the whole time. We gave 5,000 inoculations of each one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to function in Swahili up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there was, you know, somewhat, but it was mostly Turkana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you depended on the Ministry of Health officials."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a lot of the communication."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:775", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4052437716037547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there was, you know, somewhat, but it was mostly Turkana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you depended on the Ministry of Health officials."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a lot of the communication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Jim was part of the team?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6724930795597275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a lot of the communication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Jim was part of the team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he giving shots?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:779", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9694367550663636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Jim was part of the team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he giving shots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We are all were. It requires very little training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for a month?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:781", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2993741722959595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he giving shots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We are all were. It requires very little training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for a month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at any point, up to that, up to this, was there any gathering of the group? I mean, did Peace Corps call you in for a conference of any sort?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:783", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6659713025510663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We are all were. It requires very little training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for a month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at any point, up to that, up to this, was there any gathering of the group? I mean, did Peace Corps call you in for a conference of any sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had our close, we had our termination conference. That's only conference I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:785", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9621903361678514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at any point, up to that, up to this, was there any gathering of the group? I mean, did Peace Corps call you in for a conference of any sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had our close, we had our termination conference. That's only conference I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But of course, we were into Nairobi, I mean, we probably. I don't think we went to Nairobi except when I got pregnant other than on a school break. It was just too far. I mean, it would take a whole week to go to Nairobi and come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in some places, Peace Corps would call everyone and have a mid, mid-service conference."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:789", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6570251063800634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But of course, we were into Nairobi, I mean, we probably. I don't think we went to Nairobi except when I got pregnant other than on a school break. It was just too far. I mean, it would take a whole week to go to Nairobi and come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in some places, Peace Corps would call everyone and have a mid, mid-service conference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do not remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't, uh, we'll get to the pregnancy in a moment, but you didn't really spend much time in Peace Corps office or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:793", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.169166798000078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't, uh, we'll get to the pregnancy in a moment, but you didn't really spend much time in Peace Corps office or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Not much at all. Because we were so far away. But we had our cluster of Peace Corps friends up country, of course. And we did what all volunteers do where you stay up all night talking because it was so nice to know you weren't going to make a faux pas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Playing Scrabble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you have any sense of what, how Peace Corps, the director and others were viewing you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:795", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.410185331111198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Not much at all. Because we were so far away. But we had our cluster of Peace Corps friends up country, of course. And we did what all volunteers do where you stay up all night talking because it was so nice to know you weren't going to make a faux pas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Playing Scrabble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you have any sense of what, how Peace Corps, the director and others were viewing you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I honestly can't tell you much of what. Well, I can't really tell you much of what this was based on, other than some harassment. But we always felt like they thought the upcountry volunteers were kind of a pain in the ass. Because they would send out, you know, it's time for your gamma globulin shot, come into the office. Well, you know, we'd have to wait a month because we weren't, we couldn't just travel to Nairobi. They said, you're late, you know, you need to get here. Well, hello. Are we here to teach or to run around the country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there were places where the doctor would go out or a nurse would go out and give the shots."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:797", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6779837012346643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Playing Scrabble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you have any sense of what, how Peace Corps, the director and others were viewing you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I honestly can't tell you much of what. Well, I can't really tell you much of what this was based on, other than some harassment. But we always felt like they thought the upcountry volunteers were kind of a pain in the ass. Because they would send out, you know, it's time for your gamma globulin shot, come into the office. Well, you know, we'd have to wait a month because we weren't, we couldn't just travel to Nairobi. They said, you're late, you know, you need to get here. Well, hello. Are we here to teach or to run around the country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there were places where the doctor would go out or a nurse would go out and give the shots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, they never did that for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't so hard to arrange."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:799", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9755374458162938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I honestly can't tell you much of what. Well, I can't really tell you much of what this was based on, other than some harassment. But we always felt like they thought the upcountry volunteers were kind of a pain in the ass. Because they would send out, you know, it's time for your gamma globulin shot, come into the office. Well, you know, we'd have to wait a month because we weren't, we couldn't just travel to Nairobi. They said, you're late, you know, you need to get here. Well, hello. Are we here to teach or to run around the country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because there were places where the doctor would go out or a nurse would go out and give the shots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, they never did that for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't so hard to arrange."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And I would think, I would think they would have enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it must have been the Kenya Peace Corps style."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:801", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3061527175736596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, they never did that for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't so hard to arrange."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And I would think, I would think they would have enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it must have been the Kenya Peace Corps style."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk a little bit about the pregnancy, which is, at what point in the two year cycle did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:803", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.562391908415177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And I would think, I would think they would have enjoyed that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it must have been the Kenya Peace Corps style."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk a little bit about the pregnancy, which is, at what point in the two year cycle did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got pregnant in February of the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that was early on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:805", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.847102120461308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk a little bit about the pregnancy, which is, at what point in the two year cycle did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got pregnant in February of the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So that was early on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You still had, uh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:811", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5337477646931523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost a full year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Which we carefully timed because we, we knew we had to have that baby before we went home or we'd end up paying for the care ourselves and we knew we didn't have any money so. I mean, my readjustment allowance had been going to pay off my student loans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so we were not going to have any money when we got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you knew you were pregnant, did you simply write a letter to Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:819", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8618316791543243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, but interestingly, before I went in for that pregnancy test, an old Kenyan woman who we knew, you know, she was one of the market mamas, she stopped me and she said in Swahili, when your baby comes, I'll send my daughter to take care of it. I say, oh my God. Honestly, you know, it was pretty amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to Nairobi, had the preg-, went to the Peace Corps office and had the pregnancy test. And then was, it was suggested to us by the Peace Corps doctor that now we would want to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, you know, well, now I suppose you want to go home. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like he was terribly supportive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:821", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.290924087949249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to Nairobi, had the preg-, went to the Peace Corps office and had the pregnancy test. And then was, it was suggested to us by the Peace Corps doctor that now we would want to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, you know, well, now I suppose you want to go home. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like he was terribly supportive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't supportive at all. They were really annoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just at that point, had any of the other couples become pregnant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:823", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.767693431054721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, you know, well, now I suppose you want to go home. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't sound like he was terribly supportive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't supportive at all. They were really annoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just at that point, had any of the other couples become pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One in Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Nairobi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:825", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.297437145616357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't supportive at all. They were really annoyed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just at that point, had any of the other couples become pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One in Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Nairobi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, what did they choose to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:827", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.886041272907063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One in Nairobi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Nairobi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, what did they choose to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:829", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.540045858785625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what, what did they choose to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think their baby was born about six months before they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the second of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2667176208729165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think their baby was born about six months before they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the second of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, had any previous volunteers, couples had children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:833", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.074130689858796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think their baby was born about six months before they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were the second of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, had any previous volunteers, couples had children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that we were aware of. I mean, we might have been aware of them. Not that I remember. We didn't know any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There may have been a change in the policy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:835", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.97125632206533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, had any previous volunteers, couples had children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that we were aware of. I mean, we might have been aware of them. Not that I remember. We didn't know any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There may have been a change in the policy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just about the time you were you were becoming volunteers. So the doctor was not terribly encouraging?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:837", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.968062580072587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not that we were aware of. I mean, we might have been aware of them. Not that I remember. We didn't know any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There may have been a change in the policy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just about the time you were you were becoming volunteers. So the doctor was not terribly encouraging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Did he explain why he felt you should be going home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:839", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.075625088969542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just about the time you were you were becoming volunteers. So the doctor was not terribly encouraging?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Did he explain why he felt you should be going home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I. I actually, I don't think it was so much that he thought we should be going home as, well, he was concerned about our site being so remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which he had never seen."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:841", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.306250098855045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Did he explain why he felt you should be going home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I. I actually, I don't think it was so much that he thought we should be going home as, well, he was concerned about our site being so remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which he had never seen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which he had never seen, no. This was a different doctor too. But, um, I think he assumed that we wouldn't want to stay up there. And so we said, no, you know, we've been telling you guys that this was in our plan and asking for clear directions. So, um, no, we want to stay. I feel great. I know I'm going to continue to feel great and don't anticipate any problems. Then they said, okay, if you can find a hospital. They said, well, you'll have to come to Nairobi for the birth. And I actually, I'm not even sure this all took place in the same discussion. There may have been some letter writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any suggestion that you transfer to another school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:843", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.56250010983894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I. I actually, I don't think it was so much that he thought we should be going home as, well, he was concerned about our site being so remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which he had never seen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which he had never seen, no. This was a different doctor too. But, um, I think he assumed that we wouldn't want to stay up there. And so we said, no, you know, we've been telling you guys that this was in our plan and asking for clear directions. So, um, no, we want to stay. I feel great. I know I'm going to continue to feel great and don't anticipate any problems. Then they said, okay, if you can find a hospital. They said, well, you'll have to come to Nairobi for the birth. And I actually, I'm not even sure this all took place in the same discussion. There may have been some letter writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any suggestion that you transfer to another school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [tape break]\n\nTeachers. And they said finally, if you can find a hospital with a blood bank and an incubator, you can stay in the country. We did. It was 100 miles from our home, which was tricky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Maryknoll clinic didn't have any anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:845", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.625000122043266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which he had never seen, no. This was a different doctor too. But, um, I think he assumed that we wouldn't want to stay up there. And so we said, no, you know, we've been telling you guys that this was in our plan and asking for clear directions. So, um, no, we want to stay. I feel great. I know I'm going to continue to feel great and don't anticipate any problems. Then they said, okay, if you can find a hospital. They said, well, you'll have to come to Nairobi for the birth. And I actually, I'm not even sure this all took place in the same discussion. There may have been some letter writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any suggestion that you transfer to another school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [tape break]\n\nTeachers. And they said finally, if you can find a hospital with a blood bank and an incubator, you can stay in the country. We did. It was 100 miles from our home, which was tricky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Maryknoll clinic didn't have any anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. This was a Seventh Day Adventist hospital right on Lake Victoria, at Kendu Bay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, but it's 100 miles away?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:847", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.805555691159185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [tape break]\n\nTeachers. And they said finally, if you can find a hospital with a blood bank and an incubator, you can stay in the country. We did. It was 100 miles from our home, which was tricky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Maryknoll clinic didn't have any anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. This was a Seventh Day Adventist hospital right on Lake Victoria, at Kendu Bay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, but it's 100 miles away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was 100 miles away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so then the plan was when the baby was due to arrive, you would go there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:855", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.88241989202741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went for, um, in our search for the place, we had heard about Kendu Bay, so we went there and checked it out. It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had a, met the doctor, had a checkup. And then I went back. We went back together one more time for a checkup. And then at about. No, actually, I had this early checkup. And then being an American, I felt I should probably go back. I'd gotten prenatal vitamins from Peace Corps, and of course, they were going to support this financially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had an appointment, and for some reason, Jim couldn't go and I couldn't get a ride. So I hitchhiked by myself. I figured a pregnant woman was pretty safe and I was. And got a ride back with the missionary who was going to go there the next, Adam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the hospital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:857", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.091577657808234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had a, met the doctor, had a checkup. And then I went back. We went back together one more time for a checkup. And then at about. No, actually, I had this early checkup. And then being an American, I felt I should probably go back. I'd gotten prenatal vitamins from Peace Corps, and of course, they were going to support this financially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had an appointment, and for some reason, Jim couldn't go and I couldn't get a ride. So I hitchhiked by myself. I figured a pregnant woman was pretty safe and I was. And got a ride back with the missionary who was going to go there the next, Adam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Kendu Bay. And then the third checkup I had was two weeks before the due date, and, um, we went, Jim and I went up together. We went in a mini Moke. Do you remember the mini Mokes? They were like a little, they were like a little four wheel drive chassis with barely any kind of body. They were open. And our friend, the ag volunteer, had one and he loaned it to us and we took it as far as Kisii, where he needed it. And then we took the bus the extra 30, or a Peugeot taxi, the extra 30 miles. And she said, no, the baby will be two weeks. It hasn't dropped yet. Well, then we took the bus all the way home, 100 miles. I was totally exhausted, went to bed, and went into labor that night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the school, you were at the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:859", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.879530730898038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I had an appointment, and for some reason, Jim couldn't go and I couldn't get a ride. So I hitchhiked by myself. I figured a pregnant woman was pretty safe and I was. And got a ride back with the missionary who was going to go there the next, Adam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the hospital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Kendu Bay. And then the third checkup I had was two weeks before the due date, and, um, we went, Jim and I went up together. We went in a mini Moke. Do you remember the mini Mokes? They were like a little, they were like a little four wheel drive chassis with barely any kind of body. They were open. And our friend, the ag volunteer, had one and he loaned it to us and we took it as far as Kisii, where he needed it. And then we took the bus the extra 30, or a Peugeot taxi, the extra 30 miles. And she said, no, the baby will be two weeks. It hasn't dropped yet. Well, then we took the bus all the way home, 100 miles. I was totally exhausted, went to bed, and went into labor that night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the school, you were at the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, at Taranganya. We had just been at Kendu Bay that day. And so our plan. At the beginning of our second year, um, a couple came to a school, Naroha, which was about seven miles further up the road from us, and they became very dear friends. And it was the most amazing coincidence. He had graduated from the med tech program at Michigan State and recognized me on the streets of Nairobi. And then they got assigned at the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they were both teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:867", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.672200473857701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when I went into labor, you know, it took a while to figure it out because we had just been told would be two weeks. Anyway, finally we decided it was the real thing. So Jim walked over to the mission to ask the missionary to drive up to get our friends Rick and Maggie. And the missionaries, the woman, Ernestine, had done nothing for the entire time they were there and I was pregnant but harangue me about how stupid I was, that she would get on a first plane back to New York. And how can I think of having a baby here? I said, you know, people do it every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway. So we really avoided them and didn't want them to have anything to do with this. But Harold insisted, no, no, there's no time. I'll drive Mary. And poor Jim. He comes back and he says, Harold's really being insistent. I said, well, you need to go back and tell Harold that if he's going, I'm not going. He needs to get Rick. What can I tell him? I said, tell him Rick has medical training and I want him there for that purpose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the guy bought that and he went up and got Rick. Rick and Maggie came down and then we drove the 100 miles to Kendu Bay. Got there, got there with two and a half hours to spare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally got the missionaries' car and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:869", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.302444970953001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway. So we really avoided them and didn't want them to have anything to do with this. But Harold insisted, no, no, there's no time. I'll drive Mary. And poor Jim. He comes back and he says, Harold's really being insistent. I said, well, you need to go back and tell Harold that if he's going, I'm not going. He needs to get Rick. What can I tell him? I said, tell him Rick has medical training and I want him there for that purpose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the guy bought that and he went up and got Rick. Rick and Maggie came down and then we drove the 100 miles to Kendu Bay. Got there, got there with two and a half hours to spare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally got the missionaries' car and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, Rick and Maggie were, were naughty. They had, they had a van. They had bought a van that they sort of kept hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Against, totally against Peace Corps regulations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:871", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.002716634392224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the guy bought that and he went up and got Rick. Rick and Maggie came down and then we drove the 100 miles to Kendu Bay. Got there, got there with two and a half hours to spare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you finally got the missionaries' car and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, Rick and Maggie were, were naughty. They had, they had a van. They had bought a van that they sort of kept hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Against, totally against Peace Corps regulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. I got it. So you went in their van."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:873", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.780796260435804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, Rick and Maggie were, were naughty. They had, they had a van. They had bought a van that they sort of kept hidden."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Against, totally against Peace Corps regulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. I got it. So you went in their van."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so had the baby?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:875", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.645329178262005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. I got it. So you went in their van."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so had the baby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the baby was a girl?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:881", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.513483097753092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Named?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mara."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mara Christine. How long were you at Kendu Bay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:883", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.34831455305899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mara."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mara."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mara Christine. How long were you at Kendu Bay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five days. It was very luxurious. They wanted me to stay, make sure nursing was going okay. And since the whole thing cost $85, I didn't think it was excessive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What month was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:885", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.164793947843323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mara Christine. How long were you at Kendu Bay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five days. It was very luxurious. They wanted me to stay, make sure nursing was going okay. And since the whole thing cost $85, I didn't think it was excessive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What month was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October. All right. So it's getting close to the end of your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:887", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.07199327538147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five days. It was very luxurious. They wanted me to stay, make sure nursing was going okay. And since the whole thing cost $85, I didn't think it was excessive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What month was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October. All right. So it's getting close to the end of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you, through the pregnancy, had you missed much time teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:889", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.635548083757187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "October."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "October. All right. So it's getting close to the end of your service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you, through the pregnancy, had you missed much time teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. I felt great and actually went on a long safari. It was our only flying safari because it was, let's see. It would have been August. That would have been the school break. And Peace Corps had our termination conference at Mombasa. And so we drove to Nairobi. But then we flew to Mombasa and then flew to Zanzibar and Dar es Salaam. It was kind of luxurious. And that's our last fling, because we really didn't think the roads would be such a great idea at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you actually, you had the determination conference when you still had two or three months left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:891", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.261720093063541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you, through the pregnancy, had you missed much time teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. I felt great and actually went on a long safari. It was our only flying safari because it was, let's see. It would have been August. That would have been the school break. And Peace Corps had our termination conference at Mombasa. And so we drove to Nairobi. But then we flew to Mombasa and then flew to Zanzibar and Dar es Salaam. It was kind of luxurious. And that's our last fling, because we really didn't think the roads would be such a great idea at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you actually, you had the determination conference when you still had two or three months left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we still had one more term of school, and I think they did it because of the school break."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the, well, let's jump to the, well, let's go back to Kendu Bay. Five days and you were ready to go back to school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:893", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8463556589594905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not at all. I felt great and actually went on a long safari. It was our only flying safari because it was, let's see. It would have been August. That would have been the school break. And Peace Corps had our termination conference at Mombasa. And so we drove to Nairobi. But then we flew to Mombasa and then flew to Zanzibar and Dar es Salaam. It was kind of luxurious. And that's our last fling, because we really didn't think the roads would be such a great idea at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you actually, you had the determination conference when you still had two or three months left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we still had one more term of school, and I think they did it because of the school break."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the, well, let's jump to the, well, let's go back to Kendu Bay. Five days and you were ready to go back to school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I didn't go right back to teaching. I think I took about two weeks, stayed home, and then, of course, it was right on the compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the school community take to you as a new mother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:905", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.841522688237246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I really never had experiences alone with women. And now that's something, if we went today, we'd still be married, but I would seek that out. I just, I was just too young to know how much I was missing by not having that. But having the baby was a touch of that, which was really wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the missionaries take to your being a nursing mother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They pretty much ignored us and they were really quite hateful. The, the woman was just basically pissed that I'd had this baby without any trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we'd all survived. And we had a really awful incident with them when our baby was about a month old because we ran out of water. We were having a drought and our tank was empty and we could use the river water, which was pretty gross. But I really didn't want to use, bathe our baby in it. She wasn't drinking any, but I didn't. So anyway, Jim went and asked them for a bucket of water and they wouldn't give it to us. So anyway, it just, we had very little to do with them after she was born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall did, right after the birth, did you telegram Peace Corps to let them know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:907", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.601691875819163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They pretty much ignored us and they were really quite hateful. The, the woman was just basically pissed that I'd had this baby without any trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we'd all survived. And we had a really awful incident with them when our baby was about a month old because we ran out of water. We were having a drought and our tank was empty and we could use the river water, which was pretty gross. But I really didn't want to use, bathe our baby in it. She wasn't drinking any, but I didn't. So anyway, Jim went and asked them for a bucket of water and they wouldn't give it to us. So anyway, it just, we had very little to do with them after she was born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall did, right after the birth, did you telegram Peace Corps to let them know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We, we, um. There was a phone in Kendu Bay and maybe, maybe Jim called them. Somehow we let them know right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:909", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.335213195354625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we'd all survived. And we had a really awful incident with them when our baby was about a month old because we ran out of water. We were having a drought and our tank was empty and we could use the river water, which was pretty gross. But I really didn't want to use, bathe our baby in it. She wasn't drinking any, but I didn't. So anyway, Jim went and asked them for a bucket of water and they wouldn't give it to us. So anyway, it just, we had very little to do with them after she was born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall did, right after the birth, did you telegram Peace Corps to let them know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We, we, um. There was a phone in Kendu Bay and maybe, maybe Jim called them. Somehow we let them know right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, wait a minute. No, we didn't. He, he sent telegrams to our families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:911", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.150236883727361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We, we, um. There was a phone in Kendu Bay and maybe, maybe Jim called them. Somehow we let them know right away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm curious about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, wait a minute. No, we didn't. He, he sent telegrams to our families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and but we didn't. He didn't contact Peace Corps because we got a telegram from them that said, please advise of your medical status."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were being diplomatic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:913", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.055818759697068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, wait a minute. No, we didn't. He, he sent telegrams to our families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and but we didn't. He didn't contact Peace Corps because we got a telegram from them that said, please advise of your medical status."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were being diplomatic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. So we wrote back and said we were all fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you reported to the families that you were pregnant, you did? You did tell them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:915", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.062020844107852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and but we didn't. He didn't contact Peace Corps because we got a telegram from them that said, please advise of your medical status."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they were being diplomatic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. So we wrote back and said we were all fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you reported to the families that you were pregnant, you did? You did tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they try to convince you that maybe be good not to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:919", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.953112153219571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they try to convince you that maybe be good not to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they didn't. But I have all of the letters that I wrote home. And since my daughter, my other daughter, just had a baby, I've been wanting to go back and read about that, because my mom and dad were very, very dear. They sent us, they sent us cloth diapers, they sent us Pampers, diaper pins. Pampers were just out and so they sent us enough for the trip home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very, very supportive. Um. I honestly don't remember anyone trying to get us to come home. I just think they knew it was hopeless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did Peace Corps deal with you once you had the baby? I mean, did you, did they came out to check on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:927", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.3085080829440185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a, we wanted to take the long route so we could take our daughter to the river she was named for and take pictures and all that. So it took us forever to get into Nairobi. And we arrived around 9:00 at night and had all of our stuff in a Peace Corps Land Rover. Jim had gone to Nairobi, borrowed the Land Rover, which they loaned to us because we had the baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were supportive in that way. And took her and rushed into a restaurant and came back out and our Land Rover had been broken into and our passports, all our money, and our cameras were all gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So instead of spending our last two weeks in Kenya having fun and going to Amboseli as we'd planned, we spent it dealing with the embassy. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you going to be replaced at the school by other volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:929", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.009453425493354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were supportive in that way. And took her and rushed into a restaurant and came back out and our Land Rover had been broken into and our passports, all our money, and our cameras were all gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So instead of spending our last two weeks in Kenya having fun and going to Amboseli as we'd planned, we spent it dealing with the embassy. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you going to be replaced at the school by other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we were not. And, you know, it's funny, I've thought about that because I don't know why we didn't lobby for that. I think we were just so caught up in having this baby. And it was just, yeah, we felt very distant from Peace Corps staff. And although we had some nice contact with people, like when we had all our money stolen, we stayed with the deputy director, this Chuck Coskran, he put us up because we couldn't even afford a hotel at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you came to the end of the two year tour, what was your feeling, that you'd kind of accomplished something that, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:937", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1252147927043956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But and, and we did. I mean, I felt like I had accomplished something. I mean, our kids were learning, you know, the students were learning. And, and we couldn't see how they would do on the Cambridge exam, of course, because they had two more years, most of them. But we were just heartbroken to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we, if ,if I, if I did not, I would not have stayed in town another year. I really did not want to teach another year. I didn't particularly like it. I considered it kind of a necessary evil for living there and being there and having that experience. But, you know, I was committed to doing it and doing it as best I could. But anyway, we were just heartbroken. I mean, we had these dogs we loved dearly and this cat and we had dispense with them. And I'm going to have to turn that off because it'll keep beeping.\n\nSo we started writing letters and we really didn't feel we could leave our dogs locally because they would not have been treated like they were used to being treated. Although we did leave our cat with our teacher friend Jerry. And one dog we gave to Ephraim, the student who was now out of school and had taken such good care of our dogs. But anyway, um, just everything. We were just heartbroken. We cried all the way to Migori."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then kind of got over it and got into this trip to the Mara River and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And, um, let's, let's jump back in time, going to the termination conference. You were still pregnant at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:939", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.472460880782662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, we, if ,if I, if I did not, I would not have stayed in town another year. I really did not want to teach another year. I didn't particularly like it. I considered it kind of a necessary evil for living there and being there and having that experience. But, you know, I was committed to doing it and doing it as best I could. But anyway, we were just heartbroken. I mean, we had these dogs we loved dearly and this cat and we had dispense with them. And I'm going to have to turn that off because it'll keep beeping.\n\nSo we started writing letters and we really didn't feel we could leave our dogs locally because they would not have been treated like they were used to being treated. Although we did leave our cat with our teacher friend Jerry. And one dog we gave to Ephraim, the student who was now out of school and had taken such good care of our dogs. But anyway, um, just everything. We were just heartbroken. We cried all the way to Migori."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then kind of got over it and got into this trip to the Mara River and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And, um, let's, let's jump back in time, going to the termination conference. You were still pregnant at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was really the first time in almost the year and a half that that original group was back together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:941", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.858289867536291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then kind of got over it and got into this trip to the Mara River and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And, um, let's, let's jump back in time, going to the termination conference. You were still pregnant at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was really the first time in almost the year and a half that that original group was back together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:947", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9208365809825656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, you know what I remember about that termination conference? I was seven months pregnant, and I had made myself, we have, we had a friend in Migori who had a travel sewing machine. I had made myself a swimsuit because I knew there was going to be a pool and we were going to go to Zanzibar. And, uh, what I remember so clearly is laying in that pool and just loving it. I don't remember any of the sessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just so nice to be with friends and just kind of hang out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim may remember more about it, but I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but really, your service had been virtually autonomous, I mean it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:949", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3564850899806284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just so nice to be with friends and just kind of hang out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim may remember more about it, but I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but really, your service had been virtually autonomous, I mean it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You weren't functioning as part of the bigger group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:951", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8405389888673644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim may remember more about it, but I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but really, your service had been virtually autonomous, I mean it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You weren't functioning as part of the bigger group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And within that group you had a couple of close friends."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:953", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.378376654297071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You weren't functioning as part of the bigger group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And within that group you had a couple of close friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And at any point there was at least one other couple who had a child?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:955", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.975974060330079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And within that group you had a couple of close friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And at any point there was at least one other couple who had a child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point did, was there a session in which they asked you to feedback the experience of being a volunteer and a mother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:959", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.377745753493923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point did, was there a session in which they asked you to feedback the experience of being a volunteer and a mother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh. Oh, actually she wasn't, she hadn't been born yet at the termination conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, even."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh, no. And actually I think there were two babies. No. Well, anyway, it doesn't matter. But no. I think one of them came to the conference, is what I'm thinking. I'm sure we talked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that conference was great because you then went on to Zanzibar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:961", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.197495281659915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh. Oh, actually she wasn't, she hadn't been born yet at the termination conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, even."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh uh, no. And actually I think there were two babies. No. Well, anyway, it doesn't matter. But no. I think one of them came to the conference, is what I'm thinking. I'm sure we talked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that conference was great because you then went on to Zanzibar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and Dar es Salaam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. As you were finishing up and not planning on being robbed, but leaving the country, what were your plans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:965", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.89814232303693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, and Dar es Salaam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. As you were finishing up and not planning on being robbed, but leaving the country, what were your plans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, our plans were, we thought we would go back to Washington, D.C. because we had loved it so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we got back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, on December 23rd, and everybody was so happy to see us. But one of the funniest things, of course, we had this little baby that would just took everybody's attention and somebody else was holding the baby. And my mother sidled up to me and said in my ear, you're not wearing a girdle. And I said, you're right. And I haven't worn one for two years, and I don't intend to ever wear one again. But our plan was to go back to D.C. We were going to go to Grand Rapids, of course, and spend time with our families and then find, Jim was going to find a job because I didn't want to go to work at this point.\n\nSo what had happened is the green sheet, this Peace Corps employment bulletin, had been about 30 pages thick when we left. And after the Nixon administration came in, social service jobs just dried up and it was like five or six pages and there were very few jobs. And Jim, he'll tell you this himself, but he really got depressed. I was, I was a little better because I was focused on the baby and we bought a stroller and we would, it was a terrible winter in Michigan. And we would go on these long walks plowing that stroller through the snow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you living with your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:967", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.553491470041033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, our plans were, we thought we would go back to Washington, D.C. because we had loved it so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we got back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, on December 23rd, and everybody was so happy to see us. But one of the funniest things, of course, we had this little baby that would just took everybody's attention and somebody else was holding the baby. And my mother sidled up to me and said in my ear, you're not wearing a girdle. And I said, you're right. And I haven't worn one for two years, and I don't intend to ever wear one again. But our plan was to go back to D.C. We were going to go to Grand Rapids, of course, and spend time with our families and then find, Jim was going to find a job because I didn't want to go to work at this point.\n\nSo what had happened is the green sheet, this Peace Corps employment bulletin, had been about 30 pages thick when we left. And after the Nixon administration came in, social service jobs just dried up and it was like five or six pages and there were very few jobs. And Jim, he'll tell you this himself, but he really got depressed. I was, I was a little better because I was focused on the baby and we bought a stroller and we would, it was a terrible winter in Michigan. And we would go on these long walks plowing that stroller through the snow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you living with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed with my mom and dad, who were really great. They were very non-interfering and just, we were welcome there as long as we needed to be. And then in the Peace Corps employment bulletin was an announcement for a job in Los Alamos. And that was after we'd been home about two months. So we came out here for the interview and then he got that job and we moved after three months. But what happened to us there was we couldn't stand being in the city. We really couldn't stand it. And we were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which city are you referring to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:969", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.17054607782337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we got back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, on December 23rd, and everybody was so happy to see us. But one of the funniest things, of course, we had this little baby that would just took everybody's attention and somebody else was holding the baby. And my mother sidled up to me and said in my ear, you're not wearing a girdle. And I said, you're right. And I haven't worn one for two years, and I don't intend to ever wear one again. But our plan was to go back to D.C. We were going to go to Grand Rapids, of course, and spend time with our families and then find, Jim was going to find a job because I didn't want to go to work at this point.\n\nSo what had happened is the green sheet, this Peace Corps employment bulletin, had been about 30 pages thick when we left. And after the Nixon administration came in, social service jobs just dried up and it was like five or six pages and there were very few jobs. And Jim, he'll tell you this himself, but he really got depressed. I was, I was a little better because I was focused on the baby and we bought a stroller and we would, it was a terrible winter in Michigan. And we would go on these long walks plowing that stroller through the snow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you living with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed with my mom and dad, who were really great. They were very non-interfering and just, we were welcome there as long as we needed to be. And then in the Peace Corps employment bulletin was an announcement for a job in Los Alamos. And that was after we'd been home about two months. So we came out here for the interview and then he got that job and we moved after three months. But what happened to us there was we couldn't stand being in the city. We really couldn't stand it. And we were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which city are you referring to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grand Rapids. And we realized that there was no way we wanted to go back to the East Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:971", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.63394008647041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed with my mom and dad, who were really great. They were very non-interfering and just, we were welcome there as long as we needed to be. And then in the Peace Corps employment bulletin was an announcement for a job in Los Alamos. And that was after we'd been home about two months. So we came out here for the interview and then he got that job and we moved after three months. But what happened to us there was we couldn't stand being in the city. We really couldn't stand it. And we were like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which city are you referring to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grand Rapids. And we realized that there was no way we wanted to go back to the East Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, we didn't know where we wanted to be. We wanted to be in Africa. This is all we wanted, all we could tell. And when this thing in New Mexico came up, you know, we knew the bomb had been built there and we knew. We looked on the map and saw it was 7,300 feet elevation so there had to be mountains. So, well, this can't, you know, this has to be pretty rural. Anyway, when we drove out here and saw how much New Mexico resembled Africa, we were content."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was Jim who got the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:973", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.148822318300455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Grand Rapids. And we realized that there was no way we wanted to go back to the East Coast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, we didn't know where we wanted to be. We wanted to be in Africa. This is all we wanted, all we could tell. And when this thing in New Mexico came up, you know, we knew the bomb had been built there and we knew. We looked on the map and saw it was 7,300 feet elevation so there had to be mountains. So, well, this can't, you know, this has to be pretty rural. Anyway, when we drove out here and saw how much New Mexico resembled Africa, we were content."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was Jim who got the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, but of course, when we came for the interview, he didn't know if he would get the job and we had to drive all the way back. And so as we went through this area, we wrote down every town with a hospital because we decided. Well, actually I had just started to work in Grand Rapids in a hospital, and we decided we're moving out here and I'll get a job if I have to. We'll work this out. We were just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The trip out sold you on New Mexico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:975", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.609802575889395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, we didn't know where we wanted to be. We wanted to be in Africa. This is all we wanted, all we could tell. And when this thing in New Mexico came up, you know, we knew the bomb had been built there and we knew. We looked on the map and saw it was 7,300 feet elevation so there had to be mountains. So, well, this can't, you know, this has to be pretty rural. Anyway, when we drove out here and saw how much New Mexico resembled Africa, we were content."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was Jim who got the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, but of course, when we came for the interview, he didn't know if he would get the job and we had to drive all the way back. And so as we went through this area, we wrote down every town with a hospital because we decided. Well, actually I had just started to work in Grand Rapids in a hospital, and we decided we're moving out here and I'll get a job if I have to. We'll work this out. We were just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The trip out sold you on New Mexico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And we visited some Peace Corps friends in Kansas on the way back, and that was kind of uplifting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, did you? You mentioned you really wanted to be back in Africa. Do you recall, did you explore working for AID or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:981", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3234603235794165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we didn't. I think it had mostly to do with having the baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think also both of us from our family backgrounds, Jim was the first person in his family to ever go to college too. And, you know, we, we were so underexposed to a lot of things. I think we did believe we could do a lot of things that now we know we could have done or we could do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a matter of confidence and trust. It's like, well, if you don't, if you weren't trained for this, then how can you do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Um. Anything else you want, I mean, it's kind of sort of the end of the sequence. You did get to go back. Well, let's take, uh. Overall, what was, what do you think the effect on your life was having been? I think it's been implied a lot in your story already."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:983", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.026067026199351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think also both of us from our family backgrounds, Jim was the first person in his family to ever go to college too. And, you know, we, we were so underexposed to a lot of things. I think we did believe we could do a lot of things that now we know we could have done or we could do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a matter of confidence and trust. It's like, well, if you don't, if you weren't trained for this, then how can you do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Um. Anything else you want, I mean, it's kind of sort of the end of the sequence. You did get to go back. Well, let's take, uh. Overall, what was, what do you think the effect on your life was having been? I think it's been implied a lot in your story already."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, certainly, you know, I think what every Peace Corps volunteer learns is that there are a whole lot of people out there with a whole lot less than we ever imagined we could do without. And so, I mean, it's, I mean, when we left Michigan State, it's like, well, the thing to do was live in a Detroit suburb and, you know, get a job. And it's like, we never would have. I don't, I don't know, we might have found some other experience, but I think without that Peace Corps experience, we never would have recognized just how much is out there in the world and what will really make you happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You both brought a lot to it, obviously, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:985", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.806741140221502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a matter of confidence and trust. It's like, well, if you don't, if you weren't trained for this, then how can you do it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Um. Anything else you want, I mean, it's kind of sort of the end of the sequence. You did get to go back. Well, let's take, uh. Overall, what was, what do you think the effect on your life was having been? I think it's been implied a lot in your story already."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, certainly, you know, I think what every Peace Corps volunteer learns is that there are a whole lot of people out there with a whole lot less than we ever imagined we could do without. And so, I mean, it's, I mean, when we left Michigan State, it's like, well, the thing to do was live in a Detroit suburb and, you know, get a job. And it's like, we never would have. I don't, I don't know, we might have found some other experience, but I think without that Peace Corps experience, we never would have recognized just how much is out there in the world and what will really make you happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You both brought a lot to it, obviously, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever your person was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:987", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.674156822468335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, certainly, you know, I think what every Peace Corps volunteer learns is that there are a whole lot of people out there with a whole lot less than we ever imagined we could do without. And so, I mean, it's, I mean, when we left Michigan State, it's like, well, the thing to do was live in a Detroit suburb and, you know, get a job. And it's like, we never would have. I don't, I don't know, we might have found some other experience, but I think without that Peace Corps experience, we never would have recognized just how much is out there in the world and what will really make you happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You both brought a lot to it, obviously, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whatever your person was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point over the next 25 years were, as your life changed and family changed, were you ever tempted to again become volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:991", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.474267682059672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at any point over the next 25 years were, as your life changed and family changed, were you ever tempted to again become volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We talk about it now. I mean, we never were when, of course, when we had children and we were very focused for 20 years on their thing, that kid thing, which is rather all consuming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, we wouldn't live here if we hadn't done Peace Corps. I mean, there's no way. And, you know, I think we've sacrificed a lot in career opportunities to live here. But this has been where we've wanted to be and we've loved it. And it's, it's because of Peace Corps. I mean, we wouldn't have done this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's interesting. You make genuine life choices and career choices."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:993", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.526964091177414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We talk about it now. I mean, we never were when, of course, when we had children and we were very focused for 20 years on their thing, that kid thing, which is rather all consuming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, we wouldn't live here if we hadn't done Peace Corps. I mean, there's no way. And, you know, I think we've sacrificed a lot in career opportunities to live here. But this has been where we've wanted to be and we've loved it. And it's, it's because of Peace Corps. I mean, we wouldn't have done this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's interesting. You make genuine life choices and career choices."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think many people don't. They sort of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:995", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.696626767974903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, you know, we wouldn't live here if we hadn't done Peace Corps. I mean, there's no way. And, you know, I think we've sacrificed a lot in career opportunities to live here. But this has been where we've wanted to be and we've loved it. And it's, it's because of Peace Corps. I mean, we wouldn't have done this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's interesting. You make genuine life choices and career choices."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think many people don't. They sort of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's true. And Peace Corps was, well, for me, the first choice was to go to Washington. I mean, this was really a break. And once I did that, it was like, you know what? I'm going to keep going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk briefly about your daughter's joining the Peace Corps and the role you might have played."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:999", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.267440454290004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think that's true. And Peace Corps was, well, for me, the first choice was to go to Washington. I mean, this was really a break. And once I did that, it was like, you know what? I'm going to keep going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk briefly about your daughter's joining the Peace Corps and the role you might have played."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, of course, she grew up with Peace Corps stories and Peace Corps friends. I mean, you know, we have lots of people who visit us. And actually for eight years, when from the time Tana was about six months old until she was almost nine, Jim was the director of a group home for children, and he advertised in the Peace Corps employment bulletin. So he hired in a lot of returned volunteers. And so she was constantly surrounded by returned volunteers. And then when she was 15, we had a reunion of our group, to which 104 people came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And not all volunteers. It was probably, I don't know, maybe 40 who were actually from the program. And it was just a blast, three days at a cabin in the mountains. And that convinced her. She said, these are the coolest people I've ever met. I've got to be a Peace Corps volunteer. It's like, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was she?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:1003", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.972148709000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And not all volunteers. It was probably, I don't know, maybe 40 who were actually from the program. And it was just a blast, three days at a cabin in the mountains. And that convinced her. She said, these are the coolest people I've ever met. I've got to be a Peace Corps volunteer. It's like, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was she?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifteen. Okay. We'll see. And she really stuck with that and then worked for one year in California after graduating from college and decided that's what she wanted to do. And she called at 6:00 one morning from California. She said, Mom, they just called from Washington. They want me to go to Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whoa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then once she got there as a volunteer, you and Jim had a chance, an opportunity to go and visit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:1005", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.857943010000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifteen. Okay. We'll see. And she really stuck with that and then worked for one year in California after graduating from college and decided that's what she wanted to do. And she called at 6:00 one morning from California. She said, Mom, they just called from Washington. They want me to go to Malawi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whoa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then once she got there as a volunteer, you and Jim had a chance, an opportunity to go and visit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a year later we went to visit her and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you included a trip to Kenya then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:1009", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.824621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a year later we went to visit her and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you included a trip to Kenya then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Trip back to Kenya. We, um, all four of us went to, or the three of us went to Malawi to visit Tana, where we spent a month in her village and then a week backpacking in the highlands. And then all flew up to Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we were reunited with these students because of one student who we remained close to. We had actually lost touch with him. And he, he was very, very smart. We knew he'd do well, but he went on to the university in Nairobi. He got a master's in Nairobi and was working in the university teaching, and a guest professor from the University of Indiana came to Nairobi and encouraged him to go on for his PhD. And so when he wrote to this man and said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:1019", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, um, anyway. He met us in Nairobi. And we stayed at his home. He had, he had retired from the university. And, um, no, when he went back after he got his PhD, he became president or principal or whatever was called of one of the colleges up country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did that at a couple of different ones and then retired to write. And built a beautiful home up near our school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his wife was there, but he had been asked by the government to start this Higher Education Student Loan Board in Nairobi. And so he came back and so he was living there in a government supplied house where we stayed with him. And living with him were many young men from the Kuria tribe who he was mentoring. It was so great. It was just so much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he, he, he was then your guide or escort back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00188:1021", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did that at a couple of different ones and then retired to write. And built a beautiful home up near our school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his wife was there, but he had been asked by the government to start this Higher Education Student Loan Board in Nairobi. And so he came back and so he was living there in a government supplied house where we stayed with him. And living with him were many young men from the Kuria tribe who he was mentoring. It was so great. It was just so much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he, he, he was then your guide or escort back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes. And he took us to, we took his driver and car and went back to the school. And actually it was on my 51st birthday. It was so wonderful. And a big rainbow. There was a huge rainstorm and the rainbow. But I mean, it was like Hollywood, couldn't have been orchestrated better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But through the years you haven't had much, you haven't maintained much contact with Kenya?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00380:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.300779774634414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Still an adventure that captured people, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Still an adventure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was, and on that flight, it became not just an American adventure, which it might have been before that, but it became a kind of a human-race adventure, because they just became three human beings that were in pretty serious peril, and maybe that's a good way to put it. It became an adventure for the human race at that point, as opposed to just a national adventure, which it might have had a stronger flavor of, up till that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everybody was willing to give all the support they could."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, faxes came in from all around the world, offering this or offering that, and, you know, most of it would be hard to accept and integrate into anything, but the good will with which those requests were made is what really flowed through the people in the Control Center. They were aware of it, could talk about it, and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Very good system to help get through it. And get through it, you did, and successfully. What about afterwards? You mentioned how you debriefed afterwards and you looked at \"We really did the right thing here, we did this all correct,\" but did you change the way you would do anything for the future missions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.68961428867063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. And we're very humble about what we might accomplish and arriving in Chile, of course, in the climate of those years, you know, we were under suspicion. There had been, you know, a couple of weeks after our arrival in Chile, there had been sort of an incident at our training site where local political party and newspaper person, I believe, had sort of snuck onto the premises and taken some pictures or just whatever wrote a story about the school of spies that was in the Lincoln out of the my pool where we were training. And so from then on, we were very sort of on guard for when people would say, well, are you American? And so we're very careful about anyone talking to us about that sort of thing. And of course, that tapered off as we became involved at our regular site and became just, you know, warm friends with lots of different people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, let's go back just a little. How did you hear about the Peace Corps? Was that through your husband or did you have all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a cousin who was actually in the first Peace Corps group and he went to Ghana in, I believe, 1960, and actually he met his wife there. She was, I think, another volunteer in another site or whatever. So I had heard about it and it was always interesting, something that he had done. I never envisioned myself doing it, but certainly the adventure was something that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now kind of describe the process and the timing of the journey. You finish college and then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in about January of our senior year, we talked to a recruiter and started filling out papers and taking the medical exams and things like that. And they said the training is going to be in Chile. So we, you know, two weeks after we got married, we were three days in Washington, D.C., and then went off to Santiago, which was the middle of winter there, not a good time of the year to go to Chile. And so we just jumped in with both feet, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where did you go to school? The college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 16.321793654078476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a cousin who was actually in the first Peace Corps group and he went to Ghana in, I believe, 1960, and actually he met his wife there. She was, I think, another volunteer in another site or whatever. So I had heard about it and it was always interesting, something that he had done. I never envisioned myself doing it, but certainly the adventure was something that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now kind of describe the process and the timing of the journey. You finish college and then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in about January of our senior year, we talked to a recruiter and started filling out papers and taking the medical exams and things like that. And they said the training is going to be in Chile. So we, you know, two weeks after we got married, we were three days in Washington, D.C., and then went off to Santiago, which was the middle of winter there, not a good time of the year to go to Chile. And so we just jumped in with both feet, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where did you go to school? The college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, for my last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so that's where you came out of university. Okay. Did you have a specific country or project in mind when you applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.468659615642752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in about January of our senior year, we talked to a recruiter and started filling out papers and taking the medical exams and things like that. And they said the training is going to be in Chile. So we, you know, two weeks after we got married, we were three days in Washington, D.C., and then went off to Santiago, which was the middle of winter there, not a good time of the year to go to Chile. And so we just jumped in with both feet, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, where did you go to school? The college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, for my last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so that's where you came out of university. Okay. Did you have a specific country or project in mind when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were focused on South America. We had done some study of South America. I had just studied four years of French, so I thought, well, we'll see. But I was pretty clear we weren't going to a French country, and Daniel had, my husband, had taken some Spanish, but we were really wanting to do something in South America, or Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you expressed that desire when you applied and it worked out. That's good. Ok, what were your friends' and families' reactions when you were accepted? You know, were there any hesitation or reservation on your part or their part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.742955128491946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, for my last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so that's where you came out of university. Okay. Did you have a specific country or project in mind when you applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were focused on South America. We had done some study of South America. I had just studied four years of French, so I thought, well, we'll see. But I was pretty clear we weren't going to a French country, and Daniel had, my husband, had taken some Spanish, but we were really wanting to do something in South America, or Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you expressed that desire when you applied and it worked out. That's good. Ok, what were your friends' and families' reactions when you were accepted? You know, were there any hesitation or reservation on your part or their part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think for the most part, people were happy for us that it sounded like a neat thing to do. I'm not sure my mom was particularly joyful about me going off so far. But she didn't really make that known. You know, she was good about it. So it wasn't a conflict."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, it's good. Now what project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.243492041597236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when you're 22, you know, there's not much to prepare. You're pretty much a rolling stone at that point, you know, no property, no possessions to speak of. So it was a good time, you know? And as you know, looking back at this point, it was just a wonderful time to go and have fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now are you say your training was all in Chile then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. They had done a little testing, I think, for three days in Washington, D.C. Of course, we're all very nervous. We don't want to be bumped out. And then they shipped us down there on a very slow plane to, 15 hours to get from here to Santiago. We stopped at every major city. We were so sick by the time we got there, oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now how many were there in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are a group of, it was like 11 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was all couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.60388004621915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. They had done a little testing, I think, for three days in Washington, D.C. Of course, we're all very nervous. We don't want to be bumped out. And then they shipped us down there on a very slow plane to, 15 hours to get from here to Santiago. We stopped at every major city. We were so sick by the time we got there, oh my gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now how many were there in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are a group of, it was like 11 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was all couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And seven single men who were caught who were going to preparing to work in the forests. They were forest management. And so we're, you know, roughly 30 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. Can you tell me something about like the faculty, the syllabus, technical studies, reaction to the other trainings that you have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.782088940243499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are a group of, it was like 11 couples."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was all couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And seven single men who were caught who were going to preparing to work in the forests. They were forest management. And so we're, you know, roughly 30 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh okay. Can you tell me something about like the faculty, the syllabus, technical studies, reaction to the other trainings that you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an immersion training experience and they had a man from Spain running the program, and he had hired mostly providores, young, not necessarily men, young men, but men from the working class of Chile to be our teachers. And so we were learning, you know, we had no books, we were just learning from their mouths to our mouths. And of course, we were divided into groups where if you had previous language experience and you haven't and my language experience had not been in Spanish, so I was in a different group than my husband. So it was interesting. So you found yourself mostly getting to know the people who were in your same language group. And of course, you're quite limited. You know, they're really asking us to speak Spanish all the time. So it would, you know, in the bathroom and stuff, you would speak English because of course, you're dealing with all sorts of adjustments intestinally to the food, which was sort of developed at. My husband talks about a camaraderie in the bathroom in the middle of the night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What was your reaction to the other trainees or? I guess you said that the people you knew most were the ones in your language group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.041895612531116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was no stamina sorts of training. We were not preparing for a physical. We weren't killing chickens, you know? We were going to towns and city. I was in a city of three million people, albeit on the very edges. So that sort of thing wasn't present, and what they had said was, you know, they had to, they had pretty much said there is no selection. You know, we brought you here. You know, you are all in as far as we're concerned. So we didn't have that overlay of not making it. Except, you know, I think, you know, our own personal cautiousness about, you know. They could send you home. Watch your P's and Q's. That sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Did the training program prepare you and was it useful for your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was mostly the language program for me. They had some other sorts of things. The truth was they really did not know what the women, you know, us what 11 or 12, 11 women were going to be doing. So, you know, they had a little smattering of cooking and maybe talked about the mothers’ groups or. I can't remember the other things they did, but they were pretty insignificant in terms of the training for that. The men's training was different, you know, they took them out to sites and they talked about the different, you know, laying the plumbing. And the electrical work and what was all involved, so that was more focused. It's a good question. If I scratched my head, would I be able to think of what we do in these hearings when they were doing all that stuff?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of it was language then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your initial entry into the country and your reaction to it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.490995125034573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training was mostly the language program for me. They had some other sorts of things. The truth was they really did not know what the women, you know, us what 11 or 12, 11 women were going to be doing. So, you know, they had a little smattering of cooking and maybe talked about the mothers’ groups or. I can't remember the other things they did, but they were pretty insignificant in terms of the training for that. The men's training was different, you know, they took them out to sites and they talked about the different, you know, laying the plumbing. And the electrical work and what was all involved, so that was more focused. It's a good question. If I scratched my head, would I be able to think of what we do in these hearings when they were doing all that stuff?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of it was language then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your initial entry into the country and your reaction to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my ignorance was just like, I had arrived there and I thought, this looks like Europe. Not that I'd been to Europe, but I thought it was all going to look like northern Mexico. I just was just astonished. It was like a major city, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you went where? Did you go to Santiago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.878883472260636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your initial entry into the country and your reaction to it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my ignorance was just like, I had arrived there and I thought, this looks like Europe. Not that I'd been to Europe, but I thought it was all going to look like northern Mexico. I just was just astonished. It was like a major city, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you went where? Did you go to Santiago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We all flew into Santiago, and then you go to your other places. So it was, you know, and it was, oh, the middle of winter. It was dark. It was rainy. You know, no central heating, so those sorts of comforts were not there. But you know that, I think I was. It was pleasant to see that it wasn't, you know, northern Mexico, but that was good. I just had to adjust to the weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see now. So once you got there, you were sent to a site."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.788745027482266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We all flew into Santiago, and then you go to your other places. So it was, you know, and it was, oh, the middle of winter. It was dark. It was rainy. You know, no central heating, so those sorts of comforts were not there. But you know that, I think I was. It was pleasant to see that it wasn't, you know, northern Mexico, but that was good. I just had to adjust to the weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see now. So once you got there, you were sent to a site."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, so we had the three months of training which was a good thing, and the weather eventually warmed up. And we have said, you know, we've had this experience that, you know, the folks here that think we're spies and we do not want to be sent to a site, you know, with one mark against us. So please be sure that the folks want us. So in time to go to the sites, we packed up our stuff, somebody is taking us out on a truck. Got to the site. The social worker at the site said, what's this about? And they said, well, you know, you said you wanted to, you know, you voted to have a social worker. Not social worker, I'm sorry, Peace Corps couple. And she said, yes, we did vote, but we voted not to have them. That was just rankled us and we weren't real tickled with the folks of the Peace Corps office. We said, because he had said something like, well, they're certainly going to accept you. You know, we can make them accept you. Oh, sorry. No, thank you. We don't want them to make our house accept us. And so apparently somebody knew some other project head who said, oh yeah, I'd love to have another pair of hands over here. And then we got directed to another site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now where did the training actually take place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started our training in a place called Rinconada de Maipú, which was a Chilean technical school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it in Santiago?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.788574108002795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started our training in a place called Rinconada de Maipú, which was a Chilean technical school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it in Santiago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's in like a little suburb of Santiago, which was, you know, out the door. There was, you know, sheep and goats, and we could take lovely walks in the country. It was neat. I don't know if it was politically motivated or the fact that they want give him this very good food to eat, but after several weeks, we got moved to a like a retreat house and then we spent the next two months there. And so, you know, we had basic things and, you know, meals, which, you know, we don't always recognize, but it was a good experience. Always, always good wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, let's see. Okay, now when you went out to your sites, was there more? Was there just like one couple at each site pretty much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was rural or city or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.542860120003105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's in like a little suburb of Santiago, which was, you know, out the door. There was, you know, sheep and goats, and we could take lovely walks in the country. It was neat. I don't know if it was politically motivated or the fact that they want give him this very good food to eat, but after several weeks, we got moved to a like a retreat house and then we spent the next two months there. And so, you know, we had basic things and, you know, meals, which, you know, we don't always recognize, but it was a good experience. Always, always good wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, let's see. Okay, now when you went out to your sites, was there more? Was there just like one couple at each site pretty much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was rural or city or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we're talking about, you know, building on the edges of towns. So where we were on the outskirts of Santiago, where it was sort of pushing up against the lovely hills and. It's probably like a suburb, you know? And then shortly after we went there, there was in the next bit of land, the next section of land, they had what was called a toma de terreno, where a group of people organized themselves. Walked in under the, holding the Chilean flag and set up housing, you know, just tents and whatever and sort of said, this land is not used. We are people that need housing and they have been nicely organized. And know the local leadership knows eventually these people are going to be voters. So he's not necessarily interested in booting them out. So they were so nicely organized. They were able to get some services and, you know, like the plumbing and electrical and whatever the basic services need. To get in there even before our housing establishment did, just because they were so well organized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So these people wanted to do this and then they got you kind of help them out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.269844577781228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was rural or city or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we're talking about, you know, building on the edges of towns. So where we were on the outskirts of Santiago, where it was sort of pushing up against the lovely hills and. It's probably like a suburb, you know? And then shortly after we went there, there was in the next bit of land, the next section of land, they had what was called a toma de terreno, where a group of people organized themselves. Walked in under the, holding the Chilean flag and set up housing, you know, just tents and whatever and sort of said, this land is not used. We are people that need housing and they have been nicely organized. And know the local leadership knows eventually these people are going to be voters. So he's not necessarily interested in booting them out. So they were so nicely organized. They were able to get some services and, you know, like the plumbing and electrical and whatever the basic services need. To get in there even before our housing establishment did, just because they were so well organized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So these people wanted to do this and then they got you kind of help them out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now, I wasn't around for the beginnings of our project. Our project was sort of well underway when we got there. We had had a, you know, a Peace Corps volunteer there before us. And so, um, and I don't know the circumstances at which it might have been more well more official and not a toma. Toma means take. So it was just a, you know, politically just so interesting to see how it was done. They were in the middle of, you know, these are our work crews. These are the hours you come, you have to volunteer so many hours a week in order to sort of get to your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, was it just the people who were going to live in the house that volunteered to work or did? Were there other teams that came in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.320795775038555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, now, I wasn't around for the beginnings of our project. Our project was sort of well underway when we got there. We had had a, you know, a Peace Corps volunteer there before us. And so, um, and I don't know the circumstances at which it might have been more well more official and not a toma. Toma means take. So it was just a, you know, politically just so interesting to see how it was done. They were in the middle of, you know, these are our work crews. These are the hours you come, you have to volunteer so many hours a week in order to sort of get to your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, was it just the people who were going to live in the house that volunteered to work or did? Were there other teams that came in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was most of the people are going to volunteer to work, but you could you could hustle up somebody to do it, like if you have a, you know, a widow and a child, she wants to find someone who can do her portions for her. Or she may be, you know, the women did some of the work and I know. And then even some of the finishing stuff that a man might do in its own house. They had asked my husband if he would go help this widow with her this or that. You know, getting it finished up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were all the houses pretty much the same kind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then depending upon your, what you could afford, you could outfit them with the little comforts or, you know, little extra woodwork or and then, you know, who was the first one to get a couch or something like that because those were all luxury items. You know, it was beds and toilets and just the basic things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your assignment? Were there any, you know, specifics of the job that you were assigned to or what were the living conditions, typical day, and so on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.426179882640895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were fortunate in that we were, you know, studying the language. So they knew it'd be helpful to us later on, especially in my area of social work. I, not having any other formal Spanish training, went into the city and took a language class, so I was able to write a little bit. And I thought we were doing fine. We always thought the real test was when one day we woke up and said, oh I understand what they're saying on the radio now. It's a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, did you and Dan speak just Spanish when you were alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely not. I think that would have been the fast road to divorce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you had to take your comfort where you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I know with us, you know, in our training program, we could always talk to the other volunteers. And, you know, it wasn't until I got in the village when, you know, well, I had another volunteer there. But, you know, in order to communicate, you had to do the language. It took me about six, I had a headache every night for like six months."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.69575542515655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely not. I think that would have been the fast road to divorce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you had to take your comfort where you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I know with us, you know, in our training program, we could always talk to the other volunteers. And, you know, it wasn't until I got in the village when, you know, well, I had another volunteer there. But, you know, in order to communicate, you had to do the language. It took me about six, I had a headache every night for like six months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. Challenging. I think my ignorance gotten through because I was, people were so accepting. And as my husband said, he would just look at me because, you know, I was very new with this language and he'd say, she's pretty happy and she thinks she's getting over to them. But you know, I'm not going to step on her parade. But then occasionally later he pulled me aside and say, you know, you got to say it this way if you really want him to understand it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your uh, did you have much contact with the Peace Corps staff there at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.10639491684061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you had to take your comfort where you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, I know with us, you know, in our training program, we could always talk to the other volunteers. And, you know, it wasn't until I got in the village when, you know, well, I had another volunteer there. But, you know, in order to communicate, you had to do the language. It took me about six, I had a headache every night for like six months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. Challenging. I think my ignorance gotten through because I was, people were so accepting. And as my husband said, he would just look at me because, you know, I was very new with this language and he'd say, she's pretty happy and she thinks she's getting over to them. But you know, I'm not going to step on her parade. But then occasionally later he pulled me aside and say, you know, you got to say it this way if you really want him to understand it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your uh, did you have much contact with the Peace Corps staff there at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we came in and connected with them, and occasionally they'd have a party. They had American holiday parties and things like that and connect with others. The Peace Corps staff, it was good to talk to them. I felt like we had really good medical back up. You know, we would get shots and this and that. So that was a good thing. Besides that blip at the beginning of our program, when they sent us someplace where they weren't wanted, but things went. Things went well, we felt a warmth there and being in the major city, you know, they were fairly available to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they come out to see you or like supervisors or whatever?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.6737721298229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. Challenging. I think my ignorance gotten through because I was, people were so accepting. And as my husband said, he would just look at me because, you know, I was very new with this language and he'd say, she's pretty happy and she thinks she's getting over to them. But you know, I'm not going to step on her parade. But then occasionally later he pulled me aside and say, you know, you got to say it this way if you really want him to understand it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your uh, did you have much contact with the Peace Corps staff there at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we came in and connected with them, and occasionally they'd have a party. They had American holiday parties and things like that and connect with others. The Peace Corps staff, it was good to talk to them. I felt like we had really good medical back up. You know, we would get shots and this and that. So that was a good thing. Besides that blip at the beginning of our program, when they sent us someplace where they weren't wanted, but things went. Things went well, we felt a warmth there and being in the major city, you know, they were fairly available to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they come out to see you or like supervisors or whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time one of them came out for dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What about your work time versus your leisure time? If you could maybe describe how that worked."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.304191255358777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we came in and connected with them, and occasionally they'd have a party. They had American holiday parties and things like that and connect with others. The Peace Corps staff, it was good to talk to them. I felt like we had really good medical back up. You know, we would get shots and this and that. So that was a good thing. Besides that blip at the beginning of our program, when they sent us someplace where they weren't wanted, but things went. Things went well, we felt a warmth there and being in the major city, you know, they were fairly available to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did they come out to see you or like supervisors or whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time one of them came out for dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What about your work time versus your leisure time? If you could maybe describe how that worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The construction programs was sort of an after work program, so Daniel went to work maybe at 3:00 in the afternoon and worked till dark because they were building houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of the people had jobs during the day and then they started that after?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.00465695039864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time one of them came out for dinner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What about your work time versus your leisure time? If you could maybe describe how that worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The construction programs was sort of an after work program, so Daniel went to work maybe at 3:00 in the afternoon and worked till dark because they were building houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of the people had jobs during the day and then they started that after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I was relating more to the women and children, so my things I would do during the day. I would have classes. At one point I had a cooking class for some young girls. At another point, I had volunteered to work with the Estefan, if I would help with some vaccination things, they were doing oral vaccine in schools and this was with a couple of, I believe, nurses from that public health department so that there was another little experience and actually what it was, was more of a peek into the middle class in Chile for me, just seeing what these women were talking about. We'd also helped a little bit in a local school in the sort of the country area, you know, their school had been damaged by the earthquake in 1960 and still they hadn't sent enough help there to repair it. But they were still using it, and we had helped to get some supplies for this school and, you know, did sort of a visiting teacher of English for a day or so. But boy, seeing that school and the little heat they had for the kids and the enthusiasm of the teacher the children. It was heartening to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what was the weather like there? Was it pretty much like it is here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.095551372288941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, so it's chilly. Santiago, which is about the same latitude as San Francisco. So, you know, it's a cold, rainy winter and it's a pleasant summer, although it would get quite hot in the summer because we weren't but maybe two hundred kilometers but maybe close to a hundred miles from the sea, so we weren't like warmed by the sea, but the summers would get hot. To heat themselves in winter, they would have these. They would get heating fuel in a big, huge five, 10-gallon thing and hook it up, you know, if they could afford it to a heater. And you know, the fumes from this were not good, so they really had to use them sparingly. And so you sort of waited for the sun to come up and when the folks could, a lot of times they would work by a sunny window or maybe even in their backyard, they'd sit in the sun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they use wood fire at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, they would. Well, a lot of them had, most of them had stoves. Sometimes they've had more in the country. A little charcoal things that, you know, that was the smell you could smell going through the roads. And if you bought, you know, blankets from the country, you know they would have the smell of this charcoal fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your leisure time, how was that spent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a lot of reading, a lot of reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a Peace Corps trunk of books or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.550612635876602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, they would. Well, a lot of them had, most of them had stoves. Sometimes they've had more in the country. A little charcoal things that, you know, that was the smell you could smell going through the roads. And if you bought, you know, blankets from the country, you know they would have the smell of this charcoal fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your leisure time, how was that spent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a lot of reading, a lot of reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a Peace Corps trunk of books or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but you know, we could take books out of the central office and bring them back. That was nice. Probably my biggest reading experience. And, you know, and once we'd go into town on our day off on Mondays, we'd go into town and look around. Occasionally we'd go sneak up, we'd go off to a movie now. Let's try the movie and so that meant bolting our dinner, catching the bus, getting downtown, you know, riding a downtown traffic on our feet, you know, running to this. But you know, but a lot of the movies were in English with Spanish subtitles, so that's just speaking our language. But I remember early on when we were in training, it was like that first weekend off, we went into town to a movie and was just like, oh my gosh, this movie was so comforting, to watch a movie in English, that you just didn't want to leave the theater and go back to all that Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you say you only got one day off a week. So does that mean that, like Dan was scheduled to work every day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.72290292875178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did a lot of reading, a lot of reading."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a Peace Corps trunk of books or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but you know, we could take books out of the central office and bring them back. That was nice. Probably my biggest reading experience. And, you know, and once we'd go into town on our day off on Mondays, we'd go into town and look around. Occasionally we'd go sneak up, we'd go off to a movie now. Let's try the movie and so that meant bolting our dinner, catching the bus, getting downtown, you know, riding a downtown traffic on our feet, you know, running to this. But you know, but a lot of the movies were in English with Spanish subtitles, so that's just speaking our language. But I remember early on when we were in training, it was like that first weekend off, we went into town to a movie and was just like, oh my gosh, this movie was so comforting, to watch a movie in English, that you just didn't want to leave the theater and go back to all that Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you say you only got one day off a week. So does that mean that, like Dan was scheduled to work every day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, probably not. We didn't work Sundays, and so we were probably home and around the house or. You know, I think Saturdays, they maybe worked till noon or something. Because we did take weekend trips to visit other Peace Corps folks in other small towns, which was interesting because that just hearing how sort of the same training and the same background interpreted into a totally different experience. So we had some just lovely weekend trips, nice, you know, bus system we could get on a bus and get off to a different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was on a regular schedule pretty much to work like from certain hour to a certain hour."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.025447698613089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but you know, we could take books out of the central office and bring them back. That was nice. Probably my biggest reading experience. And, you know, and once we'd go into town on our day off on Mondays, we'd go into town and look around. Occasionally we'd go sneak up, we'd go off to a movie now. Let's try the movie and so that meant bolting our dinner, catching the bus, getting downtown, you know, riding a downtown traffic on our feet, you know, running to this. But you know, but a lot of the movies were in English with Spanish subtitles, so that's just speaking our language. But I remember early on when we were in training, it was like that first weekend off, we went into town to a movie and was just like, oh my gosh, this movie was so comforting, to watch a movie in English, that you just didn't want to leave the theater and go back to all that Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you say you only got one day off a week. So does that mean that, like Dan was scheduled to work every day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, probably not. We didn't work Sundays, and so we were probably home and around the house or. You know, I think Saturdays, they maybe worked till noon or something. Because we did take weekend trips to visit other Peace Corps folks in other small towns, which was interesting because that just hearing how sort of the same training and the same background interpreted into a totally different experience. So we had some just lovely weekend trips, nice, you know, bus system we could get on a bus and get off to a different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was on a regular schedule pretty much to work like from certain hour to a certain hour."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That doesn't seem to happen very much. At least it didn't with us."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.361608554014543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, probably not. We didn't work Sundays, and so we were probably home and around the house or. You know, I think Saturdays, they maybe worked till noon or something. Because we did take weekend trips to visit other Peace Corps folks in other small towns, which was interesting because that just hearing how sort of the same training and the same background interpreted into a totally different experience. So we had some just lovely weekend trips, nice, you know, bus system we could get on a bus and get off to a different places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was on a regular schedule pretty much to work like from certain hour to a certain hour."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That doesn't seem to happen very much. At least it didn't with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see the other the other instructors would come from other places and, you know, gather, have the evening cup of coffee or. And then decide what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How did your life and work change over the months when you started out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.624009504460602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That doesn't seem to happen very much. At least it didn't with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see the other the other instructors would come from other places and, you know, gather, have the evening cup of coffee or. And then decide what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How did your life and work change over the months when you started out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think it just became more involved and connected with more folks. Daniel got involved in a sort of a young men's group he organized. The government had set up national work days to clean up the area. He said, well, we can do that here, you know, which meant he's the one that had to get the connection with the, you know, the municipal truck was going to come and then you do this and this. And then the morning of the event, you know, nobody's anywhere to be found, would go knocking on doors. Are you coming, are you coming? And then by the end of the day, everyone was so proud that they had done this to help their community. It was just basic community organizing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what about like at the end of the first year, what were some of the notable events and reflections looking back, joys and woes, unexpected things, relationships?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.915566116067335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see the other the other instructors would come from other places and, you know, gather, have the evening cup of coffee or. And then decide what was going on there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. How did your life and work change over the months when you started out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think it just became more involved and connected with more folks. Daniel got involved in a sort of a young men's group he organized. The government had set up national work days to clean up the area. He said, well, we can do that here, you know, which meant he's the one that had to get the connection with the, you know, the municipal truck was going to come and then you do this and this. And then the morning of the event, you know, nobody's anywhere to be found, would go knocking on doors. Are you coming, are you coming? And then by the end of the day, everyone was so proud that they had done this to help their community. It was just basic community organizing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what about like at the end of the first year, what were some of the notable events and reflections looking back, joys and woes, unexpected things, relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I look back, I just look at, you know, the strangeness and sort of the otherness that we felt in the beginning and then, you know, as we got comfortable there, you know, whereas they were just other and then us. By the time you are there a while, it's oh, well, here's my friend, and here's the worrisome guy, and here's the jovial guy. Here's the guy who is struggling with alcoholism. And here's the woman who just takes care of everybody. You know, they had become people, individuals to us, and that was wonderful. And we also at the end of the first year, we were delighted to hear that there was, we had some weeks off, and then we could plan a vacation. It was wonderful to sort of go visit other countries in South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What about health problems?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.165471079700913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we just thought we'd go back to graduate school. Yeah, so that was pretty. And apparently I had done some writing. That went quite smoothly, just to slip back into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anybody come and visit you at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple. It was, strangely enough, the Republican governor at the time did some sort of a trade mission, and some mother and father of a former boyfriend of mine was headed down there. So they came and stayed at the fancy hotel downtown and came out to the población and invite us downtown to eat with them. So that was fun. Other times when the volunteers would be coming through the area, a lot of times they would say, you might want to go out to see them. And that was always fun to show them around. It was a lovely area. There was a nice climbing hill that you could just take a refreshing walk up the hill nearby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in the same place for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a very, that was a really positive thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that place compare to the ones that you were building?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.072745644112125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple. It was, strangely enough, the Republican governor at the time did some sort of a trade mission, and some mother and father of a former boyfriend of mine was headed down there. So they came and stayed at the fancy hotel downtown and came out to the población and invite us downtown to eat with them. So that was fun. Other times when the volunteers would be coming through the area, a lot of times they would say, you might want to go out to see them. And that was always fun to show them around. It was a lovely area. There was a nice climbing hill that you could just take a refreshing walk up the hill nearby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in the same place for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a very, that was a really positive thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that place compare to the ones that you were building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the ones we were building were nicer because they were a little more insulated. We had, uh, in training they taught us how to make plaster panels with hemp rope and plaster. So we made, tried to put some plaster panels on our house. But it was a bit of a challenge to make them in one site and transport them on a jiggly truck. And there were only a few that made it up without cracks, major cracks. And there was no insulation in the roof. So, you know, our temperature had a lot to do with what the temperature was outside. But their houses were a lot more insulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you heat, did you say you heated with that fuel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.969717382346804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a very, that was a really positive thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did that place compare to the ones that you were building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the ones we were building were nicer because they were a little more insulated. We had, uh, in training they taught us how to make plaster panels with hemp rope and plaster. So we made, tried to put some plaster panels on our house. But it was a bit of a challenge to make them in one site and transport them on a jiggly truck. And there were only a few that made it up without cracks, major cracks. And there was no insulation in the roof. So, you know, our temperature had a lot to do with what the temperature was outside. But their houses were a lot more insulated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you heat, did you say you heated with that fuel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, we did, that you wanted to be real careful about how much you did and you would never have it on when you go to sleep at night. And then the hot water was a contraption with, a metal contraption with a pipe in the middle of it, so the idea was that the water would go slowly in circles around this pipe and in the middle of this metal contraption you started a fire, you put some fuel and then started the fire. So this fire is supposed to heat this water. And of course, the faster it goes, the cooler it comes out. So if you really want hot water, it's just barely dripping out of the cellar. So, and you know, we showered like once a week, if you can believe it. And it was an event. Yeah, it's like, we heat up the bathroom and the bathroom was, you know, my husband taking regular garden hoses and running it from some spigot someplace into the house and into the bathroom and into the kitchen. And then, you know, several times it would spring a leak. And so I think what would happen, I think the local cats would hear something happening in the pipe, in the rubber hose and start digging at it. And then it goes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what about your toilet facilities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.069571169200003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a nice toilet. It worked. When the water was running it flushed down. If the water, we'd bucket flush it. So for the most part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did it go? Was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there's a great picture of my husband digging the black hole outside this little wooden shack. He must have made it, you know, nine feet deep. He said, I am not re-digging this. And it would be all the one people from the neighborhood would look down him. It's going to be enough, you don't have to worry. He was a sort of a laughingstock with this huge hole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we had one guy on in our group, he was pretty good at construction. He built a, you know, a bathroom. And they don't have seats there, they have those foot stools, you know? Well, he's got it all. And he did a great job and he was great, but he didn't realize until after he got done that when you squatted, you were facing Mecca, you know, and so he had to take the whole thing down and turn it around. So. You make a lot of mistakes to learn a few things. Ok, let's see, I think we're going to try to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps. The first one is to provide technical assistance where requested. How do you think you did in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Daniel was able to do that in terms of his instruction things and just helping out the widow and whoever else he was asked to help. Mine was such a loose assignment. I certainly felt like it was helpful in terms of people, you know, seeing sort of a generosity of spirit and sharing and coming together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think with me, it was kind of, you know, I didn't do that much physically. I think it was just making friends and learning their style and, you know, enjoying it. I didn't build any lasting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.111372000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, you know, they certainly learned that the people of the United States are just folks, whereas there was just lots of stuff happening with the government that was very ugly. So that was a good thing. One incident happened. Someone had gotten a hold of a Time magazine and there was a picture of a slum, an American slum. And he says, I don't know if this is propagation, propaganda or not but are there slums in America? And it's like he was almost embarrassed to ask my husband. He says, you betcha, you know. And then we started looking through our magazines and there was very little that would indicate that there was, you know, everything wasn't just hunky-dory in America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and the third goal is to, excuse me, promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans. How do you think you did there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can just, it speaks to the personal enrichment. You know, people are folks. People want the same things. My husband was able to, or we were able to, be involved in some community education efforts. Bringing some films to some areas, Peace Corps movie set, and bring some drums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's see. Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service and or contact with people from that country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, shortly after we left, a year and a half after maybe two years, there was a horrible coup d'etat in Chile. The newly elected president was killed and we were at UWM at the time. So we definitely made it very clear that we were not in favor of this and we did some organizing around those issues. We had some loose connections with folks. This is a sort of pre-email. Eventually, we were able to get an email of somebody. So it's been quite limited, although when we visited 30 years later, there was one of the other construction workers that, you know, had a house and family and invited us to meet with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went back in '96, and that was the only time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.457080000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can just, it speaks to the personal enrichment. You know, people are folks. People want the same things. My husband was able to, or we were able to, be involved in some community education efforts. Bringing some films to some areas, Peace Corps movie set, and bring some drums."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's see. Through the years, have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service and or contact with people from that country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, shortly after we left, a year and a half after maybe two years, there was a horrible coup d'etat in Chile. The newly elected president was killed and we were at UWM at the time. So we definitely made it very clear that we were not in favor of this and we did some organizing around those issues. We had some loose connections with folks. This is a sort of pre-email. Eventually, we were able to get an email of somebody. So it's been quite limited, although when we visited 30 years later, there was one of the other construction workers that, you know, had a house and family and invited us to meet with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went back in '96, and that was the only time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually went back again in, I believe it was '99, maybe 2000, with our children, and so then. Us with our three children and a good friend of ours stayed at the house. So here my three girls are in one double bed, in this unheated room, just really it's having the Peace Corps experience and talking about how we can fit if the one in the middle would just raise their arms above their head to sleep. It was just sweet to see them dealing with this and putting up with it. We had the fortune of good fortune to have them go into the Spanish immersion school here, so they all had some Spanish, so they could feel connected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see. Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8412000000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, shortly after we left, a year and a half after maybe two years, there was a horrible coup d'etat in Chile. The newly elected president was killed and we were at UWM at the time. So we definitely made it very clear that we were not in favor of this and we did some organizing around those issues. We had some loose connections with folks. This is a sort of pre-email. Eventually, we were able to get an email of somebody. So it's been quite limited, although when we visited 30 years later, there was one of the other construction workers that, you know, had a house and family and invited us to meet with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went back in '96, and that was the only time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually went back again in, I believe it was '99, maybe 2000, with our children, and so then. Us with our three children and a good friend of ours stayed at the house. So here my three girls are in one double bed, in this unheated room, just really it's having the Peace Corps experience and talking about how we can fit if the one in the middle would just raise their arms above their head to sleep. It was just sweet to see them dealing with this and putting up with it. We had the fortune of good fortune to have them go into the Spanish immersion school here, so they all had some Spanish, so they could feel connected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see. Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we're part of the group that meets although we don't do a whole lot with them but we love connecting at least once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like, you know, presenting to the people in the U.S. what Chile was like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.268000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually went back again in, I believe it was '99, maybe 2000, with our children, and so then. Us with our three children and a good friend of ours stayed at the house. So here my three girls are in one double bed, in this unheated room, just really it's having the Peace Corps experience and talking about how we can fit if the one in the middle would just raise their arms above their head to sleep. It was just sweet to see them dealing with this and putting up with it. We had the fortune of good fortune to have them go into the Spanish immersion school here, so they all had some Spanish, so they could feel connected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's see. Have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we're part of the group that meets although we don't do a whole lot with them but we love connecting at least once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like, you know, presenting to the people in the U.S. what Chile was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think my husband has done that, one of those teach-ins with the Peace Corps. But, not so much. And that might be an idea for me in retirement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because people are always looking for something like that. Ok, I guess I want to try to see what effect you thought your Peace Corps service had on you, either an immediate effect or change in yourself, career plans, long term, whatever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.52, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we're part of the group that meets although we don't do a whole lot with them but we love connecting at least once a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Have you been involved in any third goal activities like, you know, presenting to the people in the U.S. what Chile was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think my husband has done that, one of those teach-ins with the Peace Corps. But, not so much. And that might be an idea for me in retirement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because people are always looking for something like that. Ok, I guess I want to try to see what effect you thought your Peace Corps service had on you, either an immediate effect or change in yourself, career plans, long term, whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it really gave me a sense of who I was and who I wasn't. Coming of age in the sixties, you know, I wasn't so proud to be an American. I was a little guarded about that sometimes, would try to pass ourselves off as Canadians. But going to and seeing the folks there and just really realizing what their values were and who they were and how they thought. I thought I am different, and I'm different because this is where I come from, and that's OK. That's who I am. It was just a real inner knowing something that I didn't know before. And I wouldn't have ever known it unless I was able to see that contrast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it change your career at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think my husband has done that, one of those teach-ins with the Peace Corps. But, not so much. And that might be an idea for me in retirement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because people are always looking for something like that. Ok, I guess I want to try to see what effect you thought your Peace Corps service had on you, either an immediate effect or change in yourself, career plans, long term, whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it really gave me a sense of who I was and who I wasn't. Coming of age in the sixties, you know, I wasn't so proud to be an American. I was a little guarded about that sometimes, would try to pass ourselves off as Canadians. But going to and seeing the folks there and just really realizing what their values were and who they were and how they thought. I thought I am different, and I'm different because this is where I come from, and that's OK. That's who I am. It was just a real inner knowing something that I didn't know before. And I wouldn't have ever known it unless I was able to see that contrast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it change your career at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't. It was a boost for me because now I was a Spanish speaking social worker and I could head into my graduate studies and get to work. So that was a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Are there any like words of wisdom or anything that you'd like to pass on to people who might be listening to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it really gave me a sense of who I was and who I wasn't. Coming of age in the sixties, you know, I wasn't so proud to be an American. I was a little guarded about that sometimes, would try to pass ourselves off as Canadians. But going to and seeing the folks there and just really realizing what their values were and who they were and how they thought. I thought I am different, and I'm different because this is where I come from, and that's OK. That's who I am. It was just a real inner knowing something that I didn't know before. And I wouldn't have ever known it unless I was able to see that contrast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it change your career at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't. It was a boost for me because now I was a Spanish speaking social worker and I could head into my graduate studies and get to work. So that was a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Are there any like words of wisdom or anything that you'd like to pass on to people who might be listening to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think the words that were shared with us before we went, is that you are going to see things, you're not going to, um. Whatever you may leave there is certainly insignificant. The greatest gift is what those folks give to you. And when you think about all the patience they had putting up with us, our 22 year old selves, as we make it through life. They must have had great laughs as they saw us etching out our life on the corner of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, like you said, uh, the fact that you didn't have those expectations and just kind of took it as it was and realized that you're going to get more out of them than they ever get out of you. I think once I made that mental adjustment, things went, you know, I think a lot of people came in with, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And it was hard for, you know, they got frustrated and you just have to slow down a little."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00255:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't. It was a boost for me because now I was a Spanish speaking social worker and I could head into my graduate studies and get to work. So that was a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Are there any like words of wisdom or anything that you'd like to pass on to people who might be listening to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think the words that were shared with us before we went, is that you are going to see things, you're not going to, um. Whatever you may leave there is certainly insignificant. The greatest gift is what those folks give to you. And when you think about all the patience they had putting up with us, our 22 year old selves, as we make it through life. They must have had great laughs as they saw us etching out our life on the corner of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, like you said, uh, the fact that you didn't have those expectations and just kind of took it as it was and realized that you're going to get more out of them than they ever get out of you. I think once I made that mental adjustment, things went, you know, I think a lot of people came in with, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And it was hard for, you know, they got frustrated and you just have to slow down a little."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally, we'd have a visit from somebody, a technical person who was not a Peace Corps, but somehow employed, a Chilean American. And folks were doing a special project with oysters, and they came back with so many resentments and, you know, it wasn't going right, and, you know, lots of complaints about how things were. And I think that speaks to what you just said that they had expectations. And you know, you're not in Kansas anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Ok. Anything else you'd like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 52, "return_to_go": 121.6373885165415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To begin with, I did take a look at your autobiography before coming, and it was very interesting. It did cover a lot about your early life and how you got interested in the space program. So I'd like to just expand on some of the things that were in your book.\\n\\n To begin with, when you first came to JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California] early on, were here at JPL, you worked on an early Mars mission—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—by doing some entry studies, I believe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the similarities of that project with what you worked on later that was Mars-related, and then some of the differences?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 109.35204409311166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. That's space biz. [Laughter] That's the aerospace biz. Anything that's mainly funded by the government is going to be very up and down. I mean, look at the superconducting super collider. It was great, everybody wanted it until Texas got it, and then all of a sudden there was nothing for anybody but Texas. The impetus to spend all that much money on one project in one state was just not that high."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, that is the way it works sometimes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all the time. All the time. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When that project, when the Voyager project that you were working on did go away, you actually left JPL for a brief period and had some interesting experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For six months, right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But coming back, you got involved in trajectory analysis."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 121.50227121456851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all the time. All the time. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When that project, when the Voyager project that you were working on did go away, you actually left JPL for a brief period and had some interesting experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For six months, right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But coming back, you got involved in trajectory analysis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, that wasn't working out so well for you, and you switched with an officemate to working on an automated drug identification system."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 63, "return_to_go": 135.00252357174278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For six months, right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But coming back, you got involved in trajectory analysis."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, that wasn't working out so well for you, and you switched with an officemate to working on an automated drug identification system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seems a unique thing for JPL to be involved in."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 128.72086217515158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. It was hairy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything did go very well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it ended up working. But, of course, it's all done with the people. The engineers and scientists were just willing to put in whatever it took to make it work. I mean, for the scientists, it was their data, the culmination of their career, and you can certainly see why. But the engineers just were absolutely dedicated and devoted and were sleeping on tables, and nobody ever went home. So it was pretty wild. It's one of those things where it's much better to talk about it afterwards than to line through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there have been a variety of incidents like that in the space program. Most people have a similar viewpoint."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, the Apollo 13. It was kind of Apollo 13 only no people on board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a much longer time frame."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 141.91206908350176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it ended up working. But, of course, it's all done with the people. The engineers and scientists were just willing to put in whatever it took to make it work. I mean, for the scientists, it was their data, the culmination of their career, and you can certainly see why. But the engineers just were absolutely dedicated and devoted and were sleeping on tables, and nobody ever went home. So it was pretty wild. It's one of those things where it's much better to talk about it afterwards than to line through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there have been a variety of incidents like that in the space program. Most people have a similar viewpoint."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, the Apollo 13. It was kind of Apollo 13 only no people on board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a much longer time frame."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A much longer time frame. But, you get accustomed—you know, these spacecraft become like people to you. You're not willing to lose them lightly, having invested four, five, six years of your life in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of time and effort to make it all. And as you said, for the scientists, it's so much of their career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 112, "return_to_go": 175.20008528827375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A much longer time frame. But, you get accustomed—you know, these spacecraft become like people to you. You're not willing to lose them lightly, having invested four, five, six years of your life in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of time and effort to make it all. And as you said, for the scientists, it's so much of their career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The chances to fly are so few and far between that they're really determined to get the most out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. We're not making much progress, are we?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're doing all right. I think we'll make it.\\n\\n Now we're kind of actually moving into a transition time for you. There were some other projects, but you also had your daughter about this time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 109.23771217550073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, Webb took the budget and quadrupled it or something like that over what he thought he would need. At that point, when you don't know what you're doing, that's about what you have to do. Then, there was so much work to go around, and the contractors at the time were not entrenched, and they hadn't built the buildings and hired all the people and everything. But once Apollo was over, then here's this big infrastructure in place. Now you've created it, you've got to feed it. So NASA has been feeding its infrastructure ever since. It's just a piece of the military-industrial complex, which [President Dwight D.] Eisenhower feared so much and which is with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it should be interesting to see what does come of it, as you said, in these next ten years and these individual groups and the space authorities begin to grow up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's really fun to be in on at the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's fun to track this stuff. I mean, you get to talk to some interesting people. I've got one I talked to called J.P. Aerospace that launches things. They launch balloons. They've been around for twenty years now. They launch balloons, and then they dangle rockets from the balloons, and the rockets then fire and go up into orbit from being taken up by a balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting. Wow. That's neat. I hadn't heard of that before."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 114.7085690838897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's really fun to be in on at the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's fun to track this stuff. I mean, you get to talk to some interesting people. I've got one I talked to called J.P. Aerospace that launches things. They launch balloons. They've been around for twenty years now. They launch balloons, and then they dangle rockets from the balloons, and the rockets then fire and go up into orbit from being taken up by a balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting. Wow. That's neat. I hadn't heard of that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, they were called \"rockoons\" for a while, a cross between a rocket and a balloon. Evidently, Jim [James A.] Van Allen, way back in the early, early days of space, early fifties, mid-fifties, was doing this kind of thing to launch his instruments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? I guess it's a technology, then, that works pretty well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 127.45396564876633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's fun to track this stuff. I mean, you get to talk to some interesting people. I've got one I talked to called J.P. Aerospace that launches things. They launch balloons. They've been around for twenty years now. They launch balloons, and then they dangle rockets from the balloons, and the rockets then fire and go up into orbit from being taken up by a balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting. Wow. That's neat. I hadn't heard of that before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, they were called \"rockoons\" for a while, a cross between a rocket and a balloon. Evidently, Jim [James A.] Van Allen, way back in the early, early days of space, early fifties, mid-fifties, was doing this kind of thing to launch his instruments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? I guess it's a technology, then, that works pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Well, it's just the innovation that people can get into."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 141.61551738751814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, they were called \"rockoons\" for a while, a cross between a rocket and a balloon. Evidently, Jim [James A.] Van Allen, way back in the early, early days of space, early fifties, mid-fifties, was doing this kind of thing to launch his instruments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? I guess it's a technology, then, that works pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Well, it's just the innovation that people can get into."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay. Wow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've moved out of Space Station, and after that point was when you began to get into rovers, which then kind of dominated your career for a good rest of the time at JPL. In your book you talked about a lot of the different concepts for the rovers. As you've said, there were some very large ones down to Sojourner."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 157.35057487502016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Well, it's just the innovation that people can get into."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay. Wow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've moved out of Space Station, and after that point was when you began to get into rovers, which then kind of dominated your career for a good rest of the time at JPL. In your book you talked about a lot of the different concepts for the rovers. As you've said, there were some very large ones down to Sojourner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at all those different rovers, or different capabilities, what do you see as their future? We've just been talking here about the future of the space program in general, but rovers, both for the space program and even their applicability on Earth, you talked about some of that in your book as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.16049129855866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they try hard on the technologies, but you can't sell the space program on the spinoffs. It's just not going to—I mean, there isn't enough. If you were going to develop Teflon, you'd set out and develop Teflon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or Tang. The spinoffs are good, but that's not what it's about. It's about exploration and adventure and then the commercial practicalities, telecommunications, remote sensing, and so on. All that's just going to take a while, and with the infrastructure that was built up by the Cold War and Apollo program and everything, now you've got all these pigs at the trough, and the little piggies are trying to get [commercial space] in and having a hard time. So it's going to be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully, it'll all begin to come together as time grows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we could take a break here—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.511656998398514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or Tang. The spinoffs are good, but that's not what it's about. It's about exploration and adventure and then the commercial practicalities, telecommunications, remote sensing, and so on. All that's just going to take a while, and with the infrastructure that was built up by the Cold War and Apollo program and everything, now you've got all these pigs at the trough, and the little piggies are trying to get [commercial space] in and having a hard time. So it's going to be interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully, it'll all begin to come together as time grows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we could take a break here—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let's take a break. [Tape Change]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your book you talked about—and this is going back a bit to the rovers—you talked about the robotic intelligence branch being separate from the robotics organization and then talked about how those two were integrated and actually how you saw that as not being a good thing for the intelligence group and that several people left."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 48.34628555377613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If we could take a break here—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, let's take a break. [Tape Change]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your book you talked about—and this is going back a bit to the rovers—you talked about the robotic intelligence branch being separate from the robotics organization and then talked about how those two were integrated and actually how you saw that as not being a good thing for the intelligence group and that several people left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I was wondering about what that mission was."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.72837304340211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, Dave is here at the University of Oklahoma now, and he and I are working together. That young man that came in with the [paper]—Dave and I are both on his committee, his master's committee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I talked Dave into coming here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it worked out, I guess, for the university then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 49.69819227044678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I talked Dave into coming here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it worked out, I guess, for the university then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we've talked in several instances about some of the leadership and management issues, and you mentioned at one point, both in your book and kind of once as we've been talking, about not having flight hardware experience and that causing some resistance. But it was a Catch-22, as you mentioned in your book. How was a person supposed to overcome—or were they not expected to overcome that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.66561975262999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, you've got this big infrastructure to support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Pathfinder was, as you said, cute—or not the Pathfinder, Sojourner—cute, attractive, it had human characteristics. But did you, even knowing those things going into it, did you imagine the amount of attention, even to toys being generated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah. We'd been working on the toys for quite some time. A woman named Joan Horvath at JPL was part of our commercialization group, and she got the idea of trying to sell it as a toy. Now, we'd been approached a number of times by people who wanted to market it as a toy, but nothing had ever really happened. So Joan went out and got with Mattel [Inc.] and got all the licensing agreements done and everything like that. Of course, there was a lot of opposition: \"Well, this is so undignified, a Hot Wheels toy.\" And I pushed it real hard, and we finally got it through. So by the time it landed, Mattel had taken a risk, gone ahead and produced a bunch of these packages—like that one over there—and had them out there, and then it was just a frenzy. You couldn't get them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't find them. I couldn't find them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had grandmothers calling me up, pleading, \"Oh, my grandson has to have one of these. Can you get one?\" I said, \"I can't get them for my own child.\" Yes, it went even better than we thought. We knew it was going to be good, but we didn't know how good it was going to be.\\n\\n It's very interesting because NASA Headquarters public information, for instance, if there's a Shuttle launch, they cover it the whole time. It doesn't matter what else is going on. Most of the time nothing's happening. It's just pictures of people sitting at consoles. But they do it twenty-four hours a day as long as the Shuttle's up. Now, I don't know what they're going to do with the station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It'll be interesting to see."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.797061422999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I had grandmothers calling me up, pleading, \"Oh, my grandson has to have one of these. Can you get one?\" I said, \"I can't get them for my own child.\" Yes, it went even better than we thought. We knew it was going to be good, but we didn't know how good it was going to be.\\n\\n It's very interesting because NASA Headquarters public information, for instance, if there's a Shuttle launch, they cover it the whole time. It doesn't matter what else is going on. Most of the time nothing's happening. It's just pictures of people sitting at consoles. But they do it twenty-four hours a day as long as the Shuttle's up. Now, I don't know what they're going to do with the station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It'll be interesting to see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, of course, they do get pressure from—like they don't want to do produced video. They came in and said we couldn't do the blue rooms anymore because that was produced video and only the media could do produced video. I don't know whether that was pressure they got from the media or where they got it. So again, you know, political pressure does everything.\\n\\n It was a lot of fun. It was a good experience. Of course it was good for me personally. Because of all the exposure I ended up getting a book contract and getting to be a well-paid speaker. So I was able to retire without starving to death."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's always a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career, both at NASA but even before that, when you were a student earning your degrees, you experienced a variety of discrimination, I guess, is the word, as a woman, and you talked a bit about that in your book. You mentioned that persistence, determination, creativity, and flexibility were some of your keys to success."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 47.552290469999996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, of course, they do get pressure from—like they don't want to do produced video. They came in and said we couldn't do the blue rooms anymore because that was produced video and only the media could do produced video. I don't know whether that was pressure they got from the media or where they got it. So again, you know, political pressure does everything.\\n\\n It was a lot of fun. It was a good experience. Of course it was good for me personally. Because of all the exposure I ended up getting a book contract and getting to be a well-paid speaker. So I was able to retire without starving to death."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's always a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career, both at NASA but even before that, when you were a student earning your degrees, you experienced a variety of discrimination, I guess, is the word, as a woman, and you talked a bit about that in your book. You mentioned that persistence, determination, creativity, and flexibility were some of your keys to success."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aside from that as advice, is there anything that you recommend to young women? They're still trying to break into a male world today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it just took me a long time to get through all the hurdles to get to be a project manager."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully the hurdles you went through will help inspire others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hopefully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open some doors for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be a big accomplishment if, by existing and being out there, it does inspire other women to do it. That would also be a big accomplishment. That's a little harder to measure, as to how much personal impact you have on something like that. A lot of people come up and tell me that I'm their role model, but it might have happened anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can say personally that you have impacted my career to a certain extent. I was reading your book while I was finishing my master's program and looked on it as, \"Look what women can do in the space world. I can do it.\" It was right as I was finishing my master's project, was doing a group project, and it was just overwhelming. It was like, \"Okay, now, she's been through it. I can go through this.\""}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00991:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hopefully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Open some doors for them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be a big accomplishment if, by existing and being out there, it does inspire other women to do it. That would also be a big accomplishment. That's a little harder to measure, as to how much personal impact you have on something like that. A lot of people come up and tell me that I'm their role model, but it might have happened anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can say personally that you have impacted my career to a certain extent. I was reading your book while I was finishing my master's program and looked on it as, \"Look what women can do in the space world. I can do it.\" It was right as I was finishing my master's project, was doing a group project, and it was just overwhelming. It was like, \"Okay, now, she's been through it. I can go through this.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you got a master's degree, in night school yet. Well, very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.426719533597517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, I was escaping my education. I was currently at the time studying physics. I realized I didn't particularly like it. I spend more time at the Cleveland Public Library studying monogram monographs on Indian populations in South America. So I was interested in possibly switching careers, but I didn't know exactly what, whether I would be good at doing something else. And I like the idea of anthropology. So Peace Corps was a way to test whether I could be an anthropologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the field, right. And so they first offered me a teaching position in Chile, teaching physics at the university, which is what I definitely did not want. So I said, no, I'd prefer something else. And the second offered me a position to work in rural community development in the Dominican Republic. I had no idea what that meant, particularly in the Dominican Republic works, but I turned them down one, so I didn't want to be turned down a second time. So I said yes. So that's how I ended up in the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. And what did your family think about your leaving physics and going off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. We never really talked about it. So they basically let me do what I wanted to do. So it was I mean, in retrospect, I really don't know what they thought about it. And it never came up. It was just something I told them I was going to do. And I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.36302170399724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the field, right. And so they first offered me a teaching position in Chile, teaching physics at the university, which is what I definitely did not want. So I said, no, I'd prefer something else. And the second offered me a position to work in rural community development in the Dominican Republic. I had no idea what that meant, particularly in the Dominican Republic works, but I turned them down one, so I didn't want to be turned down a second time. So I said yes. So that's how I ended up in the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. And what did your family think about your leaving physics and going off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. We never really talked about it. So they basically let me do what I wanted to do. So it was I mean, in retrospect, I really don't know what they thought about it. And it never came up. It was just something I told them I was going to do. And I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Cleveland, Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did other people in Cleveland, Ohio, join the Peace Corps? Any of your friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 31.514468559996935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. We never really talked about it. So they basically let me do what I wanted to do. So it was I mean, in retrospect, I really don't know what they thought about it. And it never came up. It was just something I told them I was going to do. And I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Cleveland, Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did other people in Cleveland, Ohio, join the Peace Corps? Any of your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No idea. I didn't discuss it with anyone else. Certainly my colleagues at the university were so focused on science. I was an outlier. I mean, I was engaged in the civil rights movement in Cleveland. It's sort of a tutorial center. I was working in what they called Freedom Schools, working in inner city Cleveland, talking about civil rights. So I was doing a lot of stuff off campus anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted into the Peace Corps. Where did you go for training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.904965066663262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Cleveland, Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did other people in Cleveland, Ohio, join the Peace Corps? Any of your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No idea. I didn't discuss it with anyone else. Certainly my colleagues at the university were so focused on science. I was an outlier. I mean, I was engaged in the civil rights movement in Cleveland. It's sort of a tutorial center. I was working in what they called Freedom Schools, working in inner city Cleveland, talking about civil rights. So I was doing a lot of stuff off campus anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted into the Peace Corps. Where did you go for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had what was called outward bound training. Peace Corps had evolved from doing university stateside training to a number of Outward Bound type of training centers. There was one in Mexico and this one was in Puerto Rico in the outside of Arecibo on the north central coast called those books. It was in embedded in the rainforest. And basically our training was got up at 6:00 in the morning, doing our calisthenics, a mile run, eight hours of intensive Spanish, got into cross-country training and technical training. And it was a very intense three months. We did get about two thirds of the way in. We actually were flown to the Dominican Republic for a week. Oh, just as a sampling of what we were going to go. And then we came back to Puerto Rico to finish our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it was close. So it was feasible."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.11662785184807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No idea. I didn't discuss it with anyone else. Certainly my colleagues at the university were so focused on science. I was an outlier. I mean, I was engaged in the civil rights movement in Cleveland. It's sort of a tutorial center. I was working in what they called Freedom Schools, working in inner city Cleveland, talking about civil rights. So I was doing a lot of stuff off campus anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted into the Peace Corps. Where did you go for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had what was called outward bound training. Peace Corps had evolved from doing university stateside training to a number of Outward Bound type of training centers. There was one in Mexico and this one was in Puerto Rico in the outside of Arecibo on the north central coast called those books. It was in embedded in the rainforest. And basically our training was got up at 6:00 in the morning, doing our calisthenics, a mile run, eight hours of intensive Spanish, got into cross-country training and technical training. And it was a very intense three months. We did get about two thirds of the way in. We actually were flown to the Dominican Republic for a week. Oh, just as a sampling of what we were going to go. And then we came back to Puerto Rico to finish our training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it was close. So it was feasible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And that training lasted till probably the mid ‘70s when Peace Corps went to the third stage of training where they did in country training centers. So I've seen because I've worked for Peace Corps for 20 years, I've seen how the way they've done training has evolved, as well as how they design programs and projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were in domestic university based training. So this was a big step forward. Did you have did you have homestays as well in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.629119138337543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just for a week, we were given a map and told to go to the community on the map and see if someone would put us up for a week practice or Spanish. Learn more about Puerto Rico and then came back to the camps. So the family program didn't begin until 1969. Wasn't my idea. But after I finished my Peace Corps service, I actually went with. Noise in the kitchen, sorry.\n\nI was asked to implement the first family live-in training, 12 week training program. We actually gave the trainees three days of Spanish and a map of the section around town of Ponce, Puerto Rico, in the small communities, and told them to go out and find if they could find a family that would be willing to put up with them for three months. They all did it. It was amazing. After the first cycle, we realized if we wanted families to be trainers, maybe we should select the families and give them some orientation and some support instead of just randomly sending people out looking for places to live. So, again, it was a learning process that the agency was going through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so go back to yours. Do you think your training prepared you for your service at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was too focused on the physical aspects of it. You didn't need to rappel off dams and do drown proofing and then take five day hikes through the rainforest to survive. Here it was preparing us for being special forces in the military, and we needed the language, certainly, and the cross culture, but we didn't really integrate much with the local Puerto Rican culture to make it very. You still book learning versus what eventually evolved into more of an experiential learning. So it just took some time for the agency to evolve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of preparation did you have for community development? Did you find out what community development meant?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.365687931486157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why not?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was too focused on the physical aspects of it. You didn't need to rappel off dams and do drown proofing and then take five day hikes through the rainforest to survive. Here it was preparing us for being special forces in the military, and we needed the language, certainly, and the cross culture, but we didn't really integrate much with the local Puerto Rican culture to make it very. You still book learning versus what eventually evolved into more of an experiential learning. So it just took some time for the agency to evolve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of preparation did you have for community development? Did you find out what community development meant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but not in training. I think, again, it was, you know, learned how to kill a chicken and dress a pig and talked about community organizing. But it was really in-service training where we learned more about it during our service. And I was assigned to an Office of Community Development, which was a new agency that was created after the revolution had just taken place in 1965. The Peace Corps stayed in the country from throughout the revolution. And after there was this agency set up to help in self-help and throughout the country in rural areas. And it was mostly AID funded, Agency for International Development. And I worked in a region with seven other extension agents that were we were all expected to be doing the same type of work. The other six were Dominicans. And I was the one American in my area. And my group of 18 were dispersed with other Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So each one country, one volunteer with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.295208812762397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was too focused on the physical aspects of it. You didn't need to rappel off dams and do drown proofing and then take five day hikes through the rainforest to survive. Here it was preparing us for being special forces in the military, and we needed the language, certainly, and the cross culture, but we didn't really integrate much with the local Puerto Rican culture to make it very. You still book learning versus what eventually evolved into more of an experiential learning. So it just took some time for the agency to evolve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what kind of preparation did you have for community development? Did you find out what community development meant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but not in training. I think, again, it was, you know, learned how to kill a chicken and dress a pig and talked about community organizing. But it was really in-service training where we learned more about it during our service. And I was assigned to an Office of Community Development, which was a new agency that was created after the revolution had just taken place in 1965. The Peace Corps stayed in the country from throughout the revolution. And after there was this agency set up to help in self-help and throughout the country in rural areas. And it was mostly AID funded, Agency for International Development. And I worked in a region with seven other extension agents that were we were all expected to be doing the same type of work. The other six were Dominicans. And I was the one American in my area. And my group of 18 were dispersed with other Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So each one country, one volunteer with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Per region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is it that you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.994676458624888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but not in training. I think, again, it was, you know, learned how to kill a chicken and dress a pig and talked about community organizing. But it was really in-service training where we learned more about it during our service. And I was assigned to an Office of Community Development, which was a new agency that was created after the revolution had just taken place in 1965. The Peace Corps stayed in the country from throughout the revolution. And after there was this agency set up to help in self-help and throughout the country in rural areas. And it was mostly AID funded, Agency for International Development. And I worked in a region with seven other extension agents that were we were all expected to be doing the same type of work. The other six were Dominicans. And I was the one American in my area. And my group of 18 were dispersed with other Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So each one country, one volunteer with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Per region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is it that you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I first arrived in the community where I was dropped off, my project manager looked at me and says, go develop. I'll see you in six months. And so I tried to figure out basically from some of our training is just talk to people. I spent the first three months visiting as many families as I could through an eight kilometer road were about 500 families were dispersed throughout the area. And to find out who they were, what their interests were, what they thought of the community, what they might want to do as a community. And in that particular community where I started, they were desperate for a school because the youth population was exploding and they were in one small room with all grades and four teachers. So we eventually were able to actually help that community build a school. And with that, as my base, by the end of my first year, I ended up working in 10 different communities within the province I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What province where you in what's called?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.54964050958321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Per region."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what is it that you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I first arrived in the community where I was dropped off, my project manager looked at me and says, go develop. I'll see you in six months. And so I tried to figure out basically from some of our training is just talk to people. I spent the first three months visiting as many families as I could through an eight kilometer road were about 500 families were dispersed throughout the area. And to find out who they were, what their interests were, what they thought of the community, what they might want to do as a community. And in that particular community where I started, they were desperate for a school because the youth population was exploding and they were in one small room with all grades and four teachers. So we eventually were able to actually help that community build a school. And with that, as my base, by the end of my first year, I ended up working in 10 different communities within the province I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What province where you in what's called?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santiago Rodriguez or Sabaneta. It changed its name at different points in its history. When I was there it was called Santiago Rodriguez. It was in the far northwest part of the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it called later? What was the second name of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.166267232870233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I first arrived in the community where I was dropped off, my project manager looked at me and says, go develop. I'll see you in six months. And so I tried to figure out basically from some of our training is just talk to people. I spent the first three months visiting as many families as I could through an eight kilometer road were about 500 families were dispersed throughout the area. And to find out who they were, what their interests were, what they thought of the community, what they might want to do as a community. And in that particular community where I started, they were desperate for a school because the youth population was exploding and they were in one small room with all grades and four teachers. So we eventually were able to actually help that community build a school. And with that, as my base, by the end of my first year, I ended up working in 10 different communities within the province I was in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What province where you in what's called?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santiago Rodriguez or Sabaneta. It changed its name at different points in its history. When I was there it was called Santiago Rodriguez. It was in the far northwest part of the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it called later? What was the second name of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sabaneta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ended up working in 10 different communities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.851408036522482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Santiago Rodriguez or Sabaneta. It changed its name at different points in its history. When I was there it was called Santiago Rodriguez. It was in the far northwest part of the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was it called later? What was the second name of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sabaneta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ended up working in 10 different communities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The work varied depending on what the community was interested in. One wanted schools. One wanted a health clinic, and a number of them wanted help with agricultural production of peanuts. Started a youth club. Some credit union organization, farm to market roads. The agency that I worked with supplied engineers and heavy equipment communities had to do the manual labor, put up about 50 percent of the cost of whatever was being done. And so it was mostly labor. But sometimes they would make the cement blocks from the buildings and raise some of their own money to maybe by roofing material or things like that. So very much of a community organizing effort, printing sort of advisory committees, or because they really didn't have any community councils per se. So these committees were more of a steering committee to help move the communities along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your role vis a vis the Dominicans who were community developers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.723786707247204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sabaneta."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you ended up working in 10 different communities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The work varied depending on what the community was interested in. One wanted schools. One wanted a health clinic, and a number of them wanted help with agricultural production of peanuts. Started a youth club. Some credit union organization, farm to market roads. The agency that I worked with supplied engineers and heavy equipment communities had to do the manual labor, put up about 50 percent of the cost of whatever was being done. And so it was mostly labor. But sometimes they would make the cement blocks from the buildings and raise some of their own money to maybe by roofing material or things like that. So very much of a community organizing effort, printing sort of advisory committees, or because they really didn't have any community councils per se. So these committees were more of a steering committee to help move the communities along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your role vis a vis the Dominicans who were community developers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the same thing in different areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were just part of the team?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.693096341385782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The work varied depending on what the community was interested in. One wanted schools. One wanted a health clinic, and a number of them wanted help with agricultural production of peanuts. Started a youth club. Some credit union organization, farm to market roads. The agency that I worked with supplied engineers and heavy equipment communities had to do the manual labor, put up about 50 percent of the cost of whatever was being done. And so it was mostly labor. But sometimes they would make the cement blocks from the buildings and raise some of their own money to maybe by roofing material or things like that. So very much of a community organizing effort, printing sort of advisory committees, or because they really didn't have any community councils per se. So these committees were more of a steering committee to help move the communities along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your role vis a vis the Dominicans who were community developers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the same thing in different areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were just part of the team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is part of the team. And we would meet monthly as a group to talk about what we were all doing and how we're doing it. So we shared our experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But each one was in a different place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.881218157095315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the same thing in different areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were just part of the team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is part of the team. And we would meet monthly as a group to talk about what we were all doing and how we're doing it. So we shared our experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But each one was in a different place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each one was in a different you know, we didn't work together in the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in this, what town were you in again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.20135350788368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is part of the team. And we would meet monthly as a group to talk about what we were all doing and how we're doing it. So we shared our experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But each one was in a different place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each one was in a different you know, we didn't work together in the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in this, what town were you in again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small town or a small community, it was called El Guanal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, El Guanal. And talk a little bit about what this town was like and what your living situation was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.44594834209298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each one was in a different you know, we didn't work together in the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in this, what town were you in again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small town or a small community, it was called El Guanal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, El Guanal. And talk a little bit about what this town was like and what your living situation was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd call it a community, not a town, because it was literally just dispersed houses along the eight kilometer road throughout the hill. Most of the houses, the house I lived in was about 15 foot by 15 foot dirt for four and a thatched roof. We had an outhouse and then the back there was a lean-to where they had a clay stove for cooking. The owner of the house wanted five dollars a month rent, and he moved out of the house to live in a lean-to at the back of the house to get the five dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was a considerable amount of money, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.384387046769977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A small town or a small community, it was called El Guanal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, El Guanal. And talk a little bit about what this town was like and what your living situation was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd call it a community, not a town, because it was literally just dispersed houses along the eight kilometer road throughout the hill. Most of the houses, the house I lived in was about 15 foot by 15 foot dirt for four and a thatched roof. We had an outhouse and then the back there was a lean-to where they had a clay stove for cooking. The owner of the house wanted five dollars a month rent, and he moved out of the house to live in a lean-to at the back of the house to get the five dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was a considerable amount of money, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. Well, our salary was about a hundred dollars a month. So five percent of my salary went for the house and another 30 dollars for food. Had a family prepare my breakfast, lunch and dinner. That was thirty dollars. I paid another five dollars for laundry, which meant getting my clothes on a rock at the river and putting it in boiling water. So my elastic bands and my underwear sort of disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was clean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.53820782974442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You'd call it a community, not a town, because it was literally just dispersed houses along the eight kilometer road throughout the hill. Most of the houses, the house I lived in was about 15 foot by 15 foot dirt for four and a thatched roof. We had an outhouse and then the back there was a lean-to where they had a clay stove for cooking. The owner of the house wanted five dollars a month rent, and he moved out of the house to live in a lean-to at the back of the house to get the five dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was a considerable amount of money, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. Well, our salary was about a hundred dollars a month. So five percent of my salary went for the house and another 30 dollars for food. Had a family prepare my breakfast, lunch and dinner. That was thirty dollars. I paid another five dollars for laundry, which meant getting my clothes on a rock at the river and putting it in boiling water. So my elastic bands and my underwear sort of disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was clean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was clean and always prompt, folded, neat. I think those were my basic expenses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you who did you communicate with in the who were your friends? Did you did you have friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.59800869971602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably. Well, our salary was about a hundred dollars a month. So five percent of my salary went for the house and another 30 dollars for food. Had a family prepare my breakfast, lunch and dinner. That was thirty dollars. I paid another five dollars for laundry, which meant getting my clothes on a rock at the river and putting it in boiling water. So my elastic bands and my underwear sort of disappeared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was clean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was clean and always prompt, folded, neat. I think those were my basic expenses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you who did you communicate with in the who were your friends? Did you did you have friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly in the community. I mean, I met the families and I would work in the field sometimes just to get to know the men. And there weren't too many older children, mostly under 15, who were still in the community. And the. So certainly the family I ate with became close and there was a landowner in the area who was raising cattle. I did become very good friends with his son, who was a university student and which was very rare in that area. And we maintained a relationship over the last 50 years. He just died last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you said there weren’t many young people left over 15. Where had they gone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.886676333017796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was clean and always prompt, folded, neat. I think those were my basic expenses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you who did you communicate with in the who were your friends? Did you did you have friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly in the community. I mean, I met the families and I would work in the field sometimes just to get to know the men. And there weren't too many older children, mostly under 15, who were still in the community. And the. So certainly the family I ate with became close and there was a landowner in the area who was raising cattle. I did become very good friends with his son, who was a university student and which was very rare in that area. And we maintained a relationship over the last 50 years. He just died last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you said there weren’t many young people left over 15. Where had they gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I didn't think of asking it at the time, but they weren't there. And in that community anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn't military."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.87408481446422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not particularly in the community. I mean, I met the families and I would work in the field sometimes just to get to know the men. And there weren't too many older children, mostly under 15, who were still in the community. And the. So certainly the family I ate with became close and there was a landowner in the area who was raising cattle. I did become very good friends with his son, who was a university student and which was very rare in that area. And we maintained a relationship over the last 50 years. He just died last year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you said there weren’t many young people left over 15. Where had they gone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I didn't think of asking it at the time, but they weren't there. And in that community anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn't military."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. At the end of my second year, close to the end of my second year, I actually moved into the small provincial capital, which was about 3000 people there. The local high school youth approached me and asked me if I would sponsor them for a youth club. So there was an empty house right on the town square that was given free rent in the back room to sort of guard the place. And the rest of the house was used for the club. And these were young people who were looking for leadership. Developing their own leadership after a 30 year dictatorship. In the first year anniversary of the club in November, the young president of the club, who was a senior in the high school, made a statement that he says, the reason we're together learning is because we don't want to be like our parents. Which to me was shocking to hear him say it publicly, but it was because they were so submissive to the dictatorship. Did you think they saw themselves as a new generation that was going to change things?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that how did you experience that in the first town you were in in community development? Did people seem passive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.900069461076992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a politician. He was trying to do play a leadership role, which he did. And he. I think that lesson always followed me when I understood things like Iran and Iraq, Afghanistan. We were so dismissive of people who had been in the Republican Guard, for example, under Hussein, and that understanding that if you weren't a member of the party, that you couldn't be a principal of the school, you couldn't be a doctor or head of a clinic. There wasn't an option, you had to be a member. It doesn't mean you had the same particular values of the dictators. But you had to buy in, if you're in a communist country, if you're not a member of a party, you're not given any leadership positions. It doesn't mean you're particularly again. Adhere to all the values of those political systems. It's just a given. And I think that is something that's hard to understand coming from a country like our own. To understand those pressures, other people have to live under that. We don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see the evolution of people's attitudes that during the time you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly among the youth. I mean, they did. You saw at the universities that the youths demanding more transparency and openness and at least in the Dominican Republic over the last 50 years, it's gone from left to right to left to right. I mean, they've managed to have relatively nonviolent transitions of government across parties. So something was able to be stabilized and evolve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did Peace Corps manage under both? I guess it was Peace Corps there under the dictator."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The dictator, no. So only came in afterwards, came in after the dictator was assassinated in ‘61, I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the dictator?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.80255489021851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The dictator, no. So only came in afterwards, came in after the dictator was assassinated in ‘61, I believe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was the dictator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trujillo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trujillo. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And during the revolution, the general the opposition came on national radio and said, leave Peace Corps alone. They're neutral. We were the only international organization alone allowed to cross into rebel territory. We had a contingent of nurses that were administering to the wounded on both sides. So we maintained a level of neutrality that was respected by both sides. So we were neutral. They saw us as a people to people as we see it ourselves versus a representative of our government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not accused of being CIA spies or anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.336172100242788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trujillo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Trujillo. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And during the revolution, the general the opposition came on national radio and said, leave Peace Corps alone. They're neutral. We were the only international organization alone allowed to cross into rebel territory. We had a contingent of nurses that were administering to the wounded on both sides. So we maintained a level of neutrality that was respected by both sides. So we were neutral. They saw us as a people to people as we see it ourselves versus a representative of our government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not accused of being CIA spies or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were all accused of that. You're different. I mean, I would joke with my youth kids who were sort of jokingly say, oh, you're not, you're CIA. I said, well, what is it here that the CIA would care to be interested in? You know, do you really have a military installation here? Anyway, I almost got them into trouble, though, because at one point we did an overnight up into the mountains and on the way down in back into town, I came up against the military who had been told that there were youth up in the mountains. And right after, you know, this was only a year or two after the revolution. So the military came up to see who these young men were up in the mountains. And luckily, I was coming down in front of them all. So when they saw me, the two of them had military guy in charge, just came up to me and said, next time you go up, make sure you inform me of growing up, because this could have turned into a disaster. It didn't cross my mind to inform you that we were just going like a Boy Scout camp out. But that definitely would give you a sense of the underlying sensitivity that things were still not normal, whatever that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peace Corps didn't actually train you or make you aware of the sensitivities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 34.75469423901617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not those type. So we certainly were told not to engage in politics, which we didn't do. At one point, the current governor invited me to some of his meetings with some of those small communities around the capitol. And I would go until I realized that he was sort of using me as an example of someone supporting him. Hmm. I wasn't supporting him, per se, but I'm trying to learn about what he was saying, the communities, the issues the communities were interested in. But I realized that my presence looked like I was part of his retinue. And so I had to tactfully decline to continue going to the meetings with him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you move from the town you were in doing the community development to working with the youth group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was still doing the development. Only the town was now more central to the ten communities I was working in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't switch jobs. So it was just activity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, this was just an added activity. And with the central location that it made it easier to get around to the other communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do during the vacation time? I assume you had vacation. Did you travel around the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 34.17188248779574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was still doing the development. Only the town was now more central to the ten communities I was working in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't switch jobs. So it was just activity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, this was just an added activity. And with the central location that it made it easier to get around to the other communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do during the vacation time? I assume you had vacation. Did you travel around the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, um, I took one vacation that I can remember where we went back to Puerto Rico. And I just spent a couple of days in San Juan enjoying the, uh, enjoying Puerto Rico again. Um, I took a vacation between my second and third year because I stayed for a third year. So that was the only time I really took a vacation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you stay for a third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 38.67075520163959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Puerto Rico. And then we began to as things started moving in-country, I did set up one training in Venezuela and began doing training for Peace Corps in Peru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So by that time, you were a Peace Corps staff, you moved from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a contractor because the training center was running the contract for Peace Corps. So I wasn't a Peace Corps employee directly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I know when we talked, you mentioned that there was a bombing of the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 36.30083911293287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a contractor because the training center was running the contract for Peace Corps. So I wasn't a Peace Corps employee directly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I know when we talked, you mentioned that there was a bombing of the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the capital during my third year. I was on my way to the office to do some work that evening in the Peace Corps, Dr. drove by. He says we have three people looking for a fourth for bridge game. Would you be interested in joining us? And I said, well, I had some work to do, but I can always do it in the morning. So sure. Glad to join you and play some bridge. As we were playing, we heard a bomb go off, which was not exceptional in the capital. And this was in an area where the U.S. embassy and the AID building was. So we just said there's a bomb. OK. However, the doctor got a call saying, come to the Peace Corps office, it’s just been bombed. And when we got there, we found, ironically, that my desk, the one I usually used in the office because I had an office in the Peace Corps office as well as in the ministry, was the one that had set a bomb under. And when it exploded, it blew the desk up in the air and turn it upside down and landed. And it's on its top. A good government desk, strong. And it turned out that the reason the office was attacked that evening was because there was a newspaper reporter for The Washington Post by the name of Drew Pearson, who had written an article claiming that the Peace Corps agency director had been a head of a not-for-profit that was a CIA front. And so the group of young men came to the office looking for an American killed to kill that evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it could have been you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.9637258582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're all not necessarily trained that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask, why is it that D.C. Peace Corps headquarters doesn't see that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one, you get incredible turnover in headquarters. You have I think it's three political appointees who direct most of the officers in the agency. So they come in every time there's a change in administration, and it doesn't matter what party it is. And when they implement their ideas, instead of trying to figure out what's actually working and trusting what's working and supporting that instead of general reminds me of the volunteer who thinks they're the one that's going to make the change instead of being simply a facilitator to help someone make the change they want to make. So it's the difference between the volunteer doing it to prove themselves versus facilitating someone else's vision. Staff people are the same way. I mean, they want to come in to show how good they are instead of accepting that maybe some of their predecessors actually knew what they were doing. And this is probably an organizational issue anywhere, but I think it's incredible. It's even more so when you have the turnover of staff. Where you don't have at least five to 10 years of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have the turnover of volunteers, you have the turnover of staff. So decentralized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only consistency is the host country staff. And unfortunately, they're so overburdened, any new idea is put on them to implement. So even those that can think or want to think systemically, they're so overburdened with trying to get everything else that that's put on their plate, that's just horrible. So, I mean, certainly don't blame them. But it's this whole. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I come from a development perspective. I mean, that's my education training, I went from being a physicist to being a Ph.D. in sociology and in culture change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did become an anthropologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 19.959695398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one, you get incredible turnover in headquarters. You have I think it's three political appointees who direct most of the officers in the agency. So they come in every time there's a change in administration, and it doesn't matter what party it is. And when they implement their ideas, instead of trying to figure out what's actually working and trusting what's working and supporting that instead of general reminds me of the volunteer who thinks they're the one that's going to make the change instead of being simply a facilitator to help someone make the change they want to make. So it's the difference between the volunteer doing it to prove themselves versus facilitating someone else's vision. Staff people are the same way. I mean, they want to come in to show how good they are instead of accepting that maybe some of their predecessors actually knew what they were doing. And this is probably an organizational issue anywhere, but I think it's incredible. It's even more so when you have the turnover of staff. Where you don't have at least five to 10 years of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have the turnover of volunteers, you have the turnover of staff. So decentralized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only consistency is the host country staff. And unfortunately, they're so overburdened, any new idea is put on them to implement. So even those that can think or want to think systemically, they're so overburdened with trying to get everything else that that's put on their plate, that's just horrible. So, I mean, certainly don't blame them. But it's this whole. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I come from a development perspective. I mean, that's my education training, I went from being a physicist to being a Ph.D. in sociology and in culture change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did become an anthropologist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's pretty close. Sociology is much the same. Yeah. Gets pretty close."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.69318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, to some degree. There are certainly a lot of volunteers throughout both aid and embassies. Oh, I just saw RPCV appointed an ambassador to Libya, is it? I can't remember which in today's or yesterday's paper, an RPCV is an ambassador. I just hope they had more experience than their volunteer experience, because I don't think it's enough. The cultures like the State Department and AID are too strong to put up with the total renegade within them. If anything, you hopefully have the same tact you had as volunteer so you can work within those cultures and influence them indirectly, if you will. But you're not going to break into those cultures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But do you think in the field. Peace Corps volunteers are now involved in U.S. aid projects. Are they now involved in USAID projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily through AID, but through the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through their contractors, you know, but then to after their volunteers, but as volunteers. I mean, I know I've interviewed some people and they say, well, they were able to get some money through an AID grant for a project, for example."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it varies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not a regular thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00046:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 10.770199999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not necessarily through AID, but through the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through their contractors, you know, but then to after their volunteers, but as volunteers. I mean, I know I've interviewed some people and they say, well, they were able to get some money through an AID grant for a project, for example."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it varies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not a regular thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it isn't in all the countries. There used to be a small project assistance grant from AID to Peace Corps, and that was ended a while ago. I don't know when or why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it was under that program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.3308352151986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks, Rebecca. We need to save this information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we know you have so much after your duration, so we're going to try to help you find some of the highlights that you would like to have on the record. We know that you've only been home about five months, so how are you feeling physically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five months now. I'm, I'd say, 80 or 90 percent back. The delay in coming 100 percent back is not just from space flight, it's the busy life that comes with completing a mission like this. In fact, the mission just really ended, I'd say, in the last few weeks. It doesn't end when you land. There's still a lot of mission to go, both scientifically, public affairs-wise, transferring the engineering information and science information to the engineering and science development teams. So it's a very busy job for at least four months or so after landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about emotionally? Are you being able to be detached from being on board Mir for that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just as the mission doesn't end when you land, the mission doesn't start when you launch. We've been gone almost two years, the people that do these missions, and there's a lot of relationships to reestablish, your house, various equipment. I have an airplane that needs a lot of work now, and it's two years of chores all saved up and trying to, one by one, get through those. You can't go see all your friends and family all at once, so there's a certain emptiness there, that you need to start reestablishing relationships that have been years delayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess time may have felt like it stopped on the Mir, but it certainly didn't here on Earth, did it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 33.70092801688733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five months now. I'm, I'd say, 80 or 90 percent back. The delay in coming 100 percent back is not just from space flight, it's the busy life that comes with completing a mission like this. In fact, the mission just really ended, I'd say, in the last few weeks. It doesn't end when you land. There's still a lot of mission to go, both scientifically, public affairs-wise, transferring the engineering information and science information to the engineering and science development teams. So it's a very busy job for at least four months or so after landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about emotionally? Are you being able to be detached from being on board Mir for that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just as the mission doesn't end when you land, the mission doesn't start when you launch. We've been gone almost two years, the people that do these missions, and there's a lot of relationships to reestablish, your house, various equipment. I have an airplane that needs a lot of work now, and it's two years of chores all saved up and trying to, one by one, get through those. You can't go see all your friends and family all at once, so there's a certain emptiness there, that you need to start reestablishing relationships that have been years delayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess time may have felt like it stopped on the Mir, but it certainly didn't here on Earth, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. In fact, that's interesting. The housing developments are much bigger. There's new stores and restaurants, and it's kind of exciting stepping out of the time machine back to Earth and seeing how fast our society progresses, and it really strikes you when you've been gone for a few years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although, as you mentioned, you started a couple of years ago preparing for the flight, right before you launched, the time was filled with discussion and concern about the risk involved with placing another American on Mir. Saying yes to go for that mission reflected a tremendous amount of trust that you had in NASA. Could you tell us about some of the factors that helped you make that decision professionally?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.63317913389639, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us some idea of what that was like and what you were feeling when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was nine years old, I saw Ed White do the first American space walk, and it was that moment that I decided I'd like to be an astronaut and, in fact, I'd like to do a space walk as an astronaut. It was thirty-one years later that I did it. It was worth every minute of the wait. But I never dreamed it would be from a Russian spacecraft, in a Russian spacesuit, speaking Russian with a Russian who had been out sixteen times, the most experienced space walker in the world, and that's what Anatoly [Y.] Solovyev is. So it was a real first-hand lesson from the number-one guy in the field, and that was a privilege. I helped Pavel and Anatoly do five space walks from an in-cabin point of view, so I felt very ready to go.\\n\\n Finally I got to do one. It was a real highlight. Clipped on and opening the hatch and pushing yourself free is the highlight of a person's life. You look back at this space complex and the Earth, and it looks like two spacecraft flying in formation with each other, and you get a real perspective globally of what's going on here and what we've accomplished as a society. It's just awesome to see this panoramic view, much wider than you can see through any window, and in essentially a personal spacecraft, but pretty quickly you get your attention refocused to the job at hand and the details involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your duties while you were there, outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The primary goal of our space walk was to take an instrument called a spectroreflectometer, which is a hand-held, fairly large instrument which measures surface properties of the Mir in various locations, the goal being to understand how the surface coatings, which are very critical to the thermal properties of the Mir, have withstood the long-duration exposure to the space environment so that we can develop better coatings for the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wasn't your only EVA, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.59242125988488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was nine years old, I saw Ed White do the first American space walk, and it was that moment that I decided I'd like to be an astronaut and, in fact, I'd like to do a space walk as an astronaut. It was thirty-one years later that I did it. It was worth every minute of the wait. But I never dreamed it would be from a Russian spacecraft, in a Russian spacesuit, speaking Russian with a Russian who had been out sixteen times, the most experienced space walker in the world, and that's what Anatoly [Y.] Solovyev is. So it was a real first-hand lesson from the number-one guy in the field, and that was a privilege. I helped Pavel and Anatoly do five space walks from an in-cabin point of view, so I felt very ready to go.\\n\\n Finally I got to do one. It was a real highlight. Clipped on and opening the hatch and pushing yourself free is the highlight of a person's life. You look back at this space complex and the Earth, and it looks like two spacecraft flying in formation with each other, and you get a real perspective globally of what's going on here and what we've accomplished as a society. It's just awesome to see this panoramic view, much wider than you can see through any window, and in essentially a personal spacecraft, but pretty quickly you get your attention refocused to the job at hand and the details involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your duties while you were there, outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The primary goal of our space walk was to take an instrument called a spectroreflectometer, which is a hand-held, fairly large instrument which measures surface properties of the Mir in various locations, the goal being to understand how the surface coatings, which are very critical to the thermal properties of the Mir, have withstood the long-duration exposure to the space environment so that we can develop better coatings for the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wasn't your only EVA, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the only one I've done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And looking forward to doing another one, I'm sure, at some point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.880468066538754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The primary goal of our space walk was to take an instrument called a spectroreflectometer, which is a hand-held, fairly large instrument which measures surface properties of the Mir in various locations, the goal being to understand how the surface coatings, which are very critical to the thermal properties of the Mir, have withstood the long-duration exposure to the space environment so that we can develop better coatings for the International Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That wasn't your only EVA, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the only one I've done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And looking forward to doing another one, I'm sure, at some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I absolutely would like to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another unique opportunity you had was kind of un-space related. I understand you exercised your right to vote while you were in space."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.53385340726528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the only one I've done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And looking forward to doing another one, I'm sure, at some point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I absolutely would like to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another unique opportunity you had was kind of un-space related. I understand you exercised your right to vote while you were in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes, I,] Voted from space, which demonstrates that space is becoming a place to live and we have to pay attention to people's lives on the ground, not just voting, but how do they handle banking and their home staying in repair and their lawn cut. There's a whole set of issues when you're drawn that far away, how to handle life, because it has to go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a special thrill. At least you know that your vote was cast and it was counted and every vote amounts to the total."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 40.59317045251698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I absolutely would like to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another unique opportunity you had was kind of un-space related. I understand you exercised your right to vote while you were in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes, I,] Voted from space, which demonstrates that space is becoming a place to live and we have to pay attention to people's lives on the ground, not just voting, but how do they handle banking and their home staying in repair and their lawn cut. There's a whole set of issues when you're drawn that far away, how to handle life, because it has to go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a special thrill. At least you know that your vote was cast and it was counted and every vote amounts to the total."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. [It’s our choices, made by voting, that make this country great.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other concerns when you were getting ready to launch is that the astronaut going from America would be fixing situations on Mir. You'd be busy doing other things, other than scientific research. Could you share some of the accomplishments that you felt were made during your increment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.88130050279664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes, I,] Voted from space, which demonstrates that space is becoming a place to live and we have to pay attention to people's lives on the ground, not just voting, but how do they handle banking and their home staying in repair and their lawn cut. There's a whole set of issues when you're drawn that far away, how to handle life, because it has to go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a special thrill. At least you know that your vote was cast and it was counted and every vote amounts to the total."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. [It’s our choices, made by voting, that make this country great.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other concerns when you were getting ready to launch is that the astronaut going from America would be fixing situations on Mir. You'd be busy doing other things, other than scientific research. Could you share some of the accomplishments that you felt were made during your increment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each increment had its own character. You know, we had a fire on Jerry Linenger's, a collision on Mike Foale's, and the whole associated repair work and response work to that. On NASA 6, I would characterize it as long-term very hard work, and by that I mean nine in the morning till midnight, essentially every day of the whole mission. There were a few breaks, afternoon on Christmas, one or two Sundays I took the afternoon off. But long duration very hard work, and this was because the two Russians I was with, Anatoly and Pavel, were determined to bring this spacecraft up to snuff, top working order, and I wasn't going to let them work any harder than me, and that meant taking another job off the job list at ten at night, and this was an infinite job list. There was also a full science program, eight, nine hours a day, I would say, and so between that and the job list, it was an extremely interleaved day of scientific work and systems, both maintenance and handling, work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one scientific experiment or part of your research that stands out as a great accomplishment from that increment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.122722989276317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. So I was sure I was going to be able to pull it off, whatever it took, if the system could digest it, which it did very well. The Russians were very good about coming up with a plan, and it was based on utilizing prior EVA experience I've had, not in space, but I was EVA-qualified in the U.S. suit. I was EVA crew member had we needed to do one, on my prior mission, with Shannon Lucid. and I had a lot of time under water testing ISS, International Space Station, assembly techniques. So I was always interested in that and put a lot of time into it.\\n\\n So, that combined with the Russians' willingness to utilize that experience to just essentially put the deltas in, the differences, learn their suit, carefully, made it work, and it was very comfortable, no corners cut, by the end of that three weeks, except there was a lot of rough edges cut on my body from wearing out against the suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But those days became even longer in your training, due to the [unclear]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was all weekends and into the evening, nine, ten at night, essentially every day and all day Saturday and Sunday for those four weeks or so, and then back in the States almost as hard, certainly as hard, considering you have to get ready to leave the world for a while. So those were extremely busy days, but I was on a mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any time off in between the time that you left for Russia and the time -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess I can tell you now. I snuck a little vacation in. I met my girlfriend in Florida. I couldn't tell anybody where I'd be, or else it would get filled up with calls and time, too, so I diverted to Ft. Lauderdale, where she flew in, and we spent three days before I continued on, and I kind of masked that in the travel to some degree and had three days (about three weeks before the launch) just to walk on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it easy or hard to separate yourself during those three days? Could you let go of what was in the past?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.914136654751464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was all weekends and into the evening, nine, ten at night, essentially every day and all day Saturday and Sunday for those four weeks or so, and then back in the States almost as hard, certainly as hard, considering you have to get ready to leave the world for a while. So those were extremely busy days, but I was on a mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any time off in between the time that you left for Russia and the time -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess I can tell you now. I snuck a little vacation in. I met my girlfriend in Florida. I couldn't tell anybody where I'd be, or else it would get filled up with calls and time, too, so I diverted to Ft. Lauderdale, where she flew in, and we spent three days before I continued on, and I kind of masked that in the travel to some degree and had three days (about three weeks before the launch) just to walk on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it easy or hard to separate yourself during those three days? Could you let go of what was in the past?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never did let go. Things were happening too fast on a mission. It was more of a time just not to pile more on for three days and digest what was happening. Of course, it was the topic of my thoughts and conversation. So, no, I never lost it. We know it takes four or five days on a vacation until you really leave work, right? And that never happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least you had, like you said, no more work piled on top of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.770539079940077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never did let go. Things were happening too fast on a mission. It was more of a time just not to pile more on for three days and digest what was happening. Of course, it was the topic of my thoughts and conversation. So, no, I never lost it. We know it takes four or five days on a vacation until you really leave work, right? And that never happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at least you had, like you said, no more work piled on top of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It still felt good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll bet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt great in those days. I had never felt more like the agency I always wanted to work for was now putting its trust in me to make something happen. I felt very good about the team, the whole team, and I have never felt better than I did in those days. [Still had to remain objective, however, that we were all doing the right thing.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ready to go. Wendy Lawrence became then not necessarily as your back-up, but part of your support team. Was she able to give you information and some advice, or how did she help work with this mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.856154533266752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It still felt good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll bet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt great in those days. I had never felt more like the agency I always wanted to work for was now putting its trust in me to make something happen. I felt very good about the team, the whole team, and I have never felt better than I did in those days. [Still had to remain objective, however, that we were all doing the right thing.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ready to go. Wendy Lawrence became then not necessarily as your back-up, but part of your support team. Was she able to give you information and some advice, or how did she help work with this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wendy was still a critical part of the mission. In fact, I could not have succeeded at this without her. She still went up. She knew more about the planning of the transfer and placing gear and what all the gear was than I did, of course. Although I was a back-up, she knew [this mission] better than I did. So she went up and just made things work fast up on board and got me organized and off on a great start. So it's a misnomer to think Wendy wasn't on that mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Mike Foale have any good advice for you as he went through the handover?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.062393925851946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt great in those days. I had never felt more like the agency I always wanted to work for was now putting its trust in me to make something happen. I felt very good about the team, the whole team, and I have never felt better than I did in those days. [Still had to remain objective, however, that we were all doing the right thing.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ready to go. Wendy Lawrence became then not necessarily as your back-up, but part of your support team. Was she able to give you information and some advice, or how did she help work with this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wendy was still a critical part of the mission. In fact, I could not have succeeded at this without her. She still went up. She knew more about the planning of the transfer and placing gear and what all the gear was than I did, of course. Although I was a back-up, she knew [this mission] better than I did. So she went up and just made things work fast up on board and got me organized and off on a great start. So it's a misnomer to think Wendy wasn't on that mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Mike Foale have any good advice for you as he went through the handover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, handovers are very important. He had a lot of good advice. He showed me how to work the toilet properly [along with a myriad of critical information]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that's essential."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.95821547316883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wendy was still a critical part of the mission. In fact, I could not have succeeded at this without her. She still went up. She knew more about the planning of the transfer and placing gear and what all the gear was than I did, of course. Although I was a back-up, she knew [this mission] better than I did. So she went up and just made things work fast up on board and got me organized and off on a great start. So it's a misnomer to think Wendy wasn't on that mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Mike Foale have any good advice for you as he went through the handover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, handovers are very important. He had a lot of good advice. He showed me how to work the toilet properly [along with a myriad of critical information]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that's essential."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, the advice we went through was everything from how to work with Russians and their operations technique, which we had not simulated on the ground. In fact, I had never even really met the two I flew with, only at a distance at a party or so, but never done anything together. And he had then been in space for three or four weeks with them, and he gave me a lot of hints on how to get along well, which were very useful, things like, \"You have to be present at every communications pass. These guys want you there, and that interrupts about every hour of your work for fifteen, twenty minutes and makes it hard to do long-term work such as tissue culture.\" I never dreamed that if I was in the middle of an experiment that I would have to put it down or even put it away and save it and then go to a comm pass, and that was what was expected up there, and we never did fully work through that problem, and that's something that we're working with on ISS operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you describe just what it felt like when you were in the Mir and the hatch closed and your only chance to go back to Earth at that time -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.842461636854255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, handovers are very important. He had a lot of good advice. He showed me how to work the toilet properly [along with a myriad of critical information]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that's essential."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, the advice we went through was everything from how to work with Russians and their operations technique, which we had not simulated on the ground. In fact, I had never even really met the two I flew with, only at a distance at a party or so, but never done anything together. And he had then been in space for three or four weeks with them, and he gave me a lot of hints on how to get along well, which were very useful, things like, \"You have to be present at every communications pass. These guys want you there, and that interrupts about every hour of your work for fifteen, twenty minutes and makes it hard to do long-term work such as tissue culture.\" I never dreamed that if I was in the middle of an experiment that I would have to put it down or even put it away and save it and then go to a comm pass, and that was what was expected up there, and we never did fully work through that problem, and that's something that we're working with on ISS operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you describe just what it felt like when you were in the Mir and the hatch closed and your only chance to go back to Earth at that time -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you exactly how it felt. It was exactly I hadn't had the feeling in many years, since I was a little kid, and it came back instantly. It was like when I went to my first summer camp and there's my bags, and there's the station wagon driving away with my mom and dad, and it's just time to take what you've got and go make it happen. It's an excitement. You don't know what's about to occur, but you know it's going to be exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, the big difference is that if you really got homesick at camp, you could have called Mom and Dad. They might have come back to get you, but -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.824957374282505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, the advice we went through was everything from how to work with Russians and their operations technique, which we had not simulated on the ground. In fact, I had never even really met the two I flew with, only at a distance at a party or so, but never done anything together. And he had then been in space for three or four weeks with them, and he gave me a lot of hints on how to get along well, which were very useful, things like, \"You have to be present at every communications pass. These guys want you there, and that interrupts about every hour of your work for fifteen, twenty minutes and makes it hard to do long-term work such as tissue culture.\" I never dreamed that if I was in the middle of an experiment that I would have to put it down or even put it away and save it and then go to a comm pass, and that was what was expected up there, and we never did fully work through that problem, and that's something that we're working with on ISS operations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you describe just what it felt like when you were in the Mir and the hatch closed and your only chance to go back to Earth at that time -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you exactly how it felt. It was exactly I hadn't had the feeling in many years, since I was a little kid, and it came back instantly. It was like when I went to my first summer camp and there's my bags, and there's the station wagon driving away with my mom and dad, and it's just time to take what you've got and go make it happen. It's an excitement. You don't know what's about to occur, but you know it's going to be exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, the big difference is that if you really got homesick at camp, you could have called Mom and Dad. They might have come back to get you, but -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't feel that way then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.805508193647228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you exactly how it felt. It was exactly I hadn't had the feeling in many years, since I was a little kid, and it came back instantly. It was like when I went to my first summer camp and there's my bags, and there's the station wagon driving away with my mom and dad, and it's just time to take what you've got and go make it happen. It's an excitement. You don't know what's about to occur, but you know it's going to be exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, the big difference is that if you really got homesick at camp, you could have called Mom and Dad. They might have come back to get you, but -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't feel that way then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt about as possible to do that then as it did to say, \"Well, I'm coming home in the Soyuz tomorrow,\" at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How fast did the months go? I know your days were busy, I know they were long, but did it seem at the time like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.672786881830254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't feel that way then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt about as possible to do that then as it did to say, \"Well, I'm coming home in the Soyuz tomorrow,\" at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How fast did the months go? I know your days were busy, I know they were long, but did it seem at the time like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time went about as it was. I wouldn't say it went fast or slow. It seemed like four and a half months. It seemed like a long time, although I mentally had moved to space. That was my tool for lasting the time, and, \"Some day I'll move back to Earth.\" I didn't feel like I was moving back to Earth until the Shuttle launched to come get me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was your signal."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.52531875758917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt about as possible to do that then as it did to say, \"Well, I'm coming home in the Soyuz tomorrow,\" at NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How fast did the months go? I know your days were busy, I know they were long, but did it seem at the time like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time went about as it was. I wouldn't say it went fast or slow. It seemed like four and a half months. It seemed like a long time, although I mentally had moved to space. That was my tool for lasting the time, and, \"Some day I'll move back to Earth.\" I didn't feel like I was moving back to Earth until the Shuttle launched to come get me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was your signal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the signal that you're really highly likely going to come home soon. And then I started thinking about Earth thoughts and driving to the Stop and Go to get coffee, and, you know, all the Earth thoughts. I let them flood back in. But until then, I didn't let them. This metal house and processed air was my world, and that was what I was living in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is the farthest you've ever been away from home at Christmas. Did you celebrate in your own way while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.361465286210189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The time went about as it was. I wouldn't say it went fast or slow. It seemed like four and a half months. It seemed like a long time, although I mentally had moved to space. That was my tool for lasting the time, and, \"Some day I'll move back to Earth.\" I didn't feel like I was moving back to Earth until the Shuttle launched to come get me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was your signal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the signal that you're really highly likely going to come home soon. And then I started thinking about Earth thoughts and driving to the Stop and Go to get coffee, and, you know, all the Earth thoughts. I let them flood back in. But until then, I didn't let them. This metal house and processed air was my world, and that was what I was living in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is the farthest you've ever been away from home at Christmas. Did you celebrate in your own way while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christmas and Chanukah we celebrated. Couldn't light the candles, but it was a nice time. We slowed down a bit in the work, actually took some time off. Special communications periods. But I kind of felt like I do at Christmas on Earth. I'm ready to get the world moving again and back to normal activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading in one of your letters that, \"The little things mean a lot up here.\" Have you appreciated those even more now that you're back on Earth?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.290516984677987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the signal that you're really highly likely going to come home soon. And then I started thinking about Earth thoughts and driving to the Stop and Go to get coffee, and, you know, all the Earth thoughts. I let them flood back in. But until then, I didn't let them. This metal house and processed air was my world, and that was what I was living in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is the farthest you've ever been away from home at Christmas. Did you celebrate in your own way while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christmas and Chanukah we celebrated. Couldn't light the candles, but it was a nice time. We slowed down a bit in the work, actually took some time off. Special communications periods. But I kind of felt like I do at Christmas on Earth. I'm ready to get the world moving again and back to normal activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading in one of your letters that, \"The little things mean a lot up here.\" Have you appreciated those even more now that you're back on Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to hang on to that. Although humans, I guess, always revert to the level they're at, the little things I'm starting to forget all these little things that seemed so important when I first came back, although I'm going to hang on to many of them. I still like pulling my car up and getting out and getting a coffee at any of these Stop and Gos, and I try to do it slowly and enjoy that time in that and all the things like that.\\n\\n Little things do mean a lot on a long-duration space mission. Like I felt, for example, that movies had much more impact on me, surprising impact, where you see all these people interacting and interacting with Earth things. Movies that I've watched again since, that I watched two times or three times in space in little pieces in the cracks of my time just absolutely impacted me, and it was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You saw them, I guess, in a completely different way because you -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.322796649642209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christmas and Chanukah we celebrated. Couldn't light the candles, but it was a nice time. We slowed down a bit in the work, actually took some time off. Special communications periods. But I kind of felt like I do at Christmas on Earth. I'm ready to get the world moving again and back to normal activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading in one of your letters that, \"The little things mean a lot up here.\" Have you appreciated those even more now that you're back on Earth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to hang on to that. Although humans, I guess, always revert to the level they're at, the little things I'm starting to forget all these little things that seemed so important when I first came back, although I'm going to hang on to many of them. I still like pulling my car up and getting out and getting a coffee at any of these Stop and Gos, and I try to do it slowly and enjoy that time in that and all the things like that.\\n\\n Little things do mean a lot on a long-duration space mission. Like I felt, for example, that movies had much more impact on me, surprising impact, where you see all these people interacting and interacting with Earth things. Movies that I've watched again since, that I watched two times or three times in space in little pieces in the cracks of my time just absolutely impacted me, and it was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You saw them, I guess, in a completely different way because you -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different way. Your brain has this open thirst for Earth images and relationships, and they just seem to magnify in intensity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been to movies? Have you had time since you've been back?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.469774055158009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to hang on to that. Although humans, I guess, always revert to the level they're at, the little things I'm starting to forget all these little things that seemed so important when I first came back, although I'm going to hang on to many of them. I still like pulling my car up and getting out and getting a coffee at any of these Stop and Gos, and I try to do it slowly and enjoy that time in that and all the things like that.\\n\\n Little things do mean a lot on a long-duration space mission. Like I felt, for example, that movies had much more impact on me, surprising impact, where you see all these people interacting and interacting with Earth things. Movies that I've watched again since, that I watched two times or three times in space in little pieces in the cracks of my time just absolutely impacted me, and it was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You saw them, I guess, in a completely different way because you -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different way. Your brain has this open thirst for Earth images and relationships, and they just seem to magnify in intensity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been to movies? Have you had time since you've been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've not been to a theater, but I've watched a number of videos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it will be interesting for you to go to the new unless you've already been to the stadium seating with the -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.633082283508898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different way. Your brain has this open thirst for Earth images and relationships, and they just seem to magnify in intensity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been to movies? Have you had time since you've been back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've not been to a theater, but I've watched a number of videos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it will be interesting for you to go to the new unless you've already been to the stadium seating with the -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've heard about that. That's another example of how the world has changed. Suddenly I hear these new theaters with big, comfortable chairs, and there's many things like that I need to try on this new Earth that has grown in the two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have to find another three days and fill those up. You are an astronaut, an electrical engineer, doctor, inventor, flight surgeon, aerobatic pilot. Were any one of these areas more important, of expertise, while you were up on the Mir, or was it a combination of all of these talents that helped you get through those four and a half months?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.70342475945433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've not been to a theater, but I've watched a number of videos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it will be interesting for you to go to the new unless you've already been to the stadium seating with the -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've heard about that. That's another example of how the world has changed. Suddenly I hear these new theaters with big, comfortable chairs, and there's many things like that I need to try on this new Earth that has grown in the two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have to find another three days and fill those up. You are an astronaut, an electrical engineer, doctor, inventor, flight surgeon, aerobatic pilot. Were any one of these areas more important, of expertise, while you were up on the Mir, or was it a combination of all of these talents that helped you get through those four and a half months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when you talk about training for a space station mission, that kind of training starts when you're eight or nine years old and take your first lawnmower apart and can't get it back together, maybe. It takes a life of handling tools and handling equipment of all kinds, whether it's medical equipment or airplanes themselves or mechanical equipment or the pipes in your house. So I think it's the kind of person that gets their hands into the gear that does well, and it's not something that can be trained in an hour class or two-hour class. A few things can, but you don't know what you're going to run into on a long-duration mission like that, and you just have to have a bag of tricks in your head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How well were you able to communicate with those that you want to communicate on a -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.892694177171478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've heard about that. That's another example of how the world has changed. Suddenly I hear these new theaters with big, comfortable chairs, and there's many things like that I need to try on this new Earth that has grown in the two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have to find another three days and fill those up. You are an astronaut, an electrical engineer, doctor, inventor, flight surgeon, aerobatic pilot. Were any one of these areas more important, of expertise, while you were up on the Mir, or was it a combination of all of these talents that helped you get through those four and a half months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when you talk about training for a space station mission, that kind of training starts when you're eight or nine years old and take your first lawnmower apart and can't get it back together, maybe. It takes a life of handling tools and handling equipment of all kinds, whether it's medical equipment or airplanes themselves or mechanical equipment or the pipes in your house. So I think it's the kind of person that gets their hands into the gear that does well, and it's not something that can be trained in an hour class or two-hour class. A few things can, but you don't know what you're going to run into on a long-duration mission like that, and you just have to have a bag of tricks in your head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How well were you able to communicate with those that you want to communicate on a -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communicate with who?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With whomever you would like to on Earth."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.769660196857199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when you talk about training for a space station mission, that kind of training starts when you're eight or nine years old and take your first lawnmower apart and can't get it back together, maybe. It takes a life of handling tools and handling equipment of all kinds, whether it's medical equipment or airplanes themselves or mechanical equipment or the pipes in your house. So I think it's the kind of person that gets their hands into the gear that does well, and it's not something that can be trained in an hour class or two-hour class. A few things can, but you don't know what you're going to run into on a long-duration mission like that, and you just have to have a bag of tricks in your head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How well were you able to communicate with those that you want to communicate on a -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communicate with who?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With whomever you would like to on Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had adequate communication. E-mail worked good. The flight surgeon takes on a new importance in a mission like this. They do more than what would traditionally be considered flight surgeon work. They are your alter ego. They're yourself on the ground, and they know the people you need to talk with and communicate with, and they're the gateway to you. Chris Flynn [phonetic], my flight surgeon, distributed the information out. He answered people without letting it all come to me as appropriate, and this takes a long relationship before the mission. He has to know you and your family, and you have to know him, and he's under a similar stress as you are on these long-duration missions. In fact, the whole ground team is.\\n\\n In fact, we're flying one more mission, and that's ISS, and we're going to fly it for twenty years. It's one twenty-year mission, and this is very hard on all the operational teams as well as the people in space. So anyway, the flight surgeon becomes an integral part of that. The people in Mission Control, the ground teams, are on the mission with you, and I forget where we were leading with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the communication and how -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.744066885396888, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Communicate with who?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With whomever you would like to on Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had adequate communication. E-mail worked good. The flight surgeon takes on a new importance in a mission like this. They do more than what would traditionally be considered flight surgeon work. They are your alter ego. They're yourself on the ground, and they know the people you need to talk with and communicate with, and they're the gateway to you. Chris Flynn [phonetic], my flight surgeon, distributed the information out. He answered people without letting it all come to me as appropriate, and this takes a long relationship before the mission. He has to know you and your family, and you have to know him, and he's under a similar stress as you are on these long-duration missions. In fact, the whole ground team is.\\n\\n In fact, we're flying one more mission, and that's ISS, and we're going to fly it for twenty years. It's one twenty-year mission, and this is very hard on all the operational teams as well as the people in space. So anyway, the flight surgeon becomes an integral part of that. The people in Mission Control, the ground teams, are on the mission with you, and I forget where we were leading with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the communication and how -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, communications. So E-mail was a critical part of the communications. I honestly felt it was better than the real-time audio occasionally with audio-video because it never failed that the phone would ring, you might say, at the wrong time, when my hands were full, I needed to be doing something. Whereas e-mail, you can answer it and send it when you want, edit it until it means what you like. Again, the e-mail, similar to movies, had more impact to me. I could fell the people's words. I liked the e-mail the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a sense of privacy with the E-mail as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.82674098377432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had adequate communication. E-mail worked good. The flight surgeon takes on a new importance in a mission like this. They do more than what would traditionally be considered flight surgeon work. They are your alter ego. They're yourself on the ground, and they know the people you need to talk with and communicate with, and they're the gateway to you. Chris Flynn [phonetic], my flight surgeon, distributed the information out. He answered people without letting it all come to me as appropriate, and this takes a long relationship before the mission. He has to know you and your family, and you have to know him, and he's under a similar stress as you are on these long-duration missions. In fact, the whole ground team is.\\n\\n In fact, we're flying one more mission, and that's ISS, and we're going to fly it for twenty years. It's one twenty-year mission, and this is very hard on all the operational teams as well as the people in space. So anyway, the flight surgeon becomes an integral part of that. The people in Mission Control, the ground teams, are on the mission with you, and I forget where we were leading with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the communication and how -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, communications. So E-mail was a critical part of the communications. I honestly felt it was better than the real-time audio occasionally with audio-video because it never failed that the phone would ring, you might say, at the wrong time, when my hands were full, I needed to be doing something. Whereas e-mail, you can answer it and send it when you want, edit it until it means what you like. Again, the e-mail, similar to movies, had more impact to me. I could fell the people's words. I liked the e-mail the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a sense of privacy with the E-mail as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I knew a lot of people were reading it, but we were still pretty candid with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the communications among your friends in space? Did you all have time where you just visited about everyday things like conversation that you would have here if you were at home?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.029712204193688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, communications. So E-mail was a critical part of the communications. I honestly felt it was better than the real-time audio occasionally with audio-video because it never failed that the phone would ring, you might say, at the wrong time, when my hands were full, I needed to be doing something. Whereas e-mail, you can answer it and send it when you want, edit it until it means what you like. Again, the e-mail, similar to movies, had more impact to me. I could fell the people's words. I liked the e-mail the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a sense of privacy with the E-mail as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I knew a lot of people were reading it, but we were still pretty candid with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the communications among your friends in space? Did you all have time where you just visited about everyday things like conversation that you would have here if you were at home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had all the spectrum of political, philosophy, just fun and jokes. We had the whole spectrum of communications in space. I found that my Russian was excellent for technical areas and operational areas, it was pretty good for simple philosophical issues and talk, and it was bad at jokes. I couldn't understand jokes, but then, again, I don't understand jokes in English too well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share anything about America and American culture with them that you felt they had not understood or didn't [unclear]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.366346893548542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I knew a lot of people were reading it, but we were still pretty candid with each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the communications among your friends in space? Did you all have time where you just visited about everyday things like conversation that you would have here if you were at home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had all the spectrum of political, philosophy, just fun and jokes. We had the whole spectrum of communications in space. I found that my Russian was excellent for technical areas and operational areas, it was pretty good for simple philosophical issues and talk, and it was bad at jokes. I couldn't understand jokes, but then, again, I don't understand jokes in English too well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share anything about America and American culture with them that you felt they had not understood or didn't [unclear]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a lot of misconceptions about American culture that Russians or any other culture have, and there was a lot of misconceptions I had. And we knocked those around pretty extensively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one more question for you, and then I was going to ask Paul and Mark if they have any. But I want you to explain a quote from your mother, who says to remember that \"normal\" for David isn't normal for most people."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.851496548387269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had all the spectrum of political, philosophy, just fun and jokes. We had the whole spectrum of communications in space. I found that my Russian was excellent for technical areas and operational areas, it was pretty good for simple philosophical issues and talk, and it was bad at jokes. I couldn't understand jokes, but then, again, I don't understand jokes in English too well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to share anything about America and American culture with them that you felt they had not understood or didn't [unclear]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a lot of misconceptions about American culture that Russians or any other culture have, and there was a lot of misconceptions I had. And we knocked those around pretty extensively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one more question for you, and then I was going to ask Paul and Mark if they have any. But I want you to explain a quote from your mother, who says to remember that \"normal\" for David isn't normal for most people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything seemed perfectly normal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you not going to speak for your mother?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.390551720430299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a lot of misconceptions about American culture that Russians or any other culture have, and there was a lot of misconceptions I had. And we knocked those around pretty extensively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one more question for you, and then I was going to ask Paul and Mark if they have any. But I want you to explain a quote from your mother, who says to remember that \"normal\" for David isn't normal for most people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything seemed perfectly normal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you not going to speak for your mother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She's had fun with all this. I know she has. She's turned out to be a pretty good spokesman, I think, when I've reviewed some of the videos, and the media has been interested in her. She's been real supportive, and so has the whole family about all this and made it extra fun. In fact, this is no fun unless you can share it with friends and family and all, and so it's, in that sense, enriched my life.\\n\\n There's another paradox, in that when you go to Russia for a long time to live and then into space for a long time, people think, well, what does this do to your relationships? Do you get distant or whatever? And you do miss the people and need to catch up, but it actually brought me closer. I established relationships with people, for instance on e-mail, that I might not have talked to at all for those years. We had a fair amount of conversation, so it's actually brought me closer to a lot of people. Now the problem is keeping up with them all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know your days just continue to be full, but I think that may be part of that \"normal\" that your mom was talking about, that your days are always going to be full."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.650589423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then did they help you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, before I wanted to be an astronaut, until that moment, I wanted to be a garbage man, because Mr. Peacock, our garbage man, let me run the garbage truck it was an old-time thing with big levers and let me help him, and before that they said, \"It's okay if you want to be a garbage man, just so you're the best one.\"\\n\\n And when I announced I wanted to be an astronaut, they were cautious about over-encouraging me. They said, you know, \"Not many people get to do that and don't be too disappointed if you can't.\" And I didn't get too caught up in that. I always wanted to be one, but I realized you had to become something else first and do well at that and that the odds were low and you needed to follow your interests in any case. So wherever you wound up, if the musical chairs game knocked you out, that you'd be happy there. So that is a caution.\\n\\n But I did realize that anybody can work at NASA that does well in their area, and I ended up working at NASA for seven, eight years before I was an astronaut. It had its ups and downs, then, too, but overall it was a great place to work. So it's certainly true that anybody who has a strong desire and does well can work in the space program, and a lot can fly in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks for joining us today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you very much. I'm glad that you are interested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a couple of questions. They're not really related, so pardon me for jumping around. You've mentioned in your discussions your enjoyment of mechanical equipment. Would you share a few stories of your involvement in some of the repairs on board Mir that [unclear]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'd like to go again for another long-duration mission, of course, on the ISS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you luck and hope you achieve that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a great space program, though. It's not often you build a new space program, a new space platform, a new space system, and this is a neat, rare time in NASA history that we all get to go through it. So it's going to be fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you looking forward to working with additional international partners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That really sweetens the program, to have all these seventeen, eighteen countries involved. It's very international and a lot of travel in that sense, but that can work as a very positive -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your language list will increase as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.67, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a great space program, though. It's not often you build a new space program, a new space platform, a new space system, and this is a neat, rare time in NASA history that we all get to go through it. So it's going to be fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you looking forward to working with additional international partners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That really sweetens the program, to have all these seventeen, eighteen countries involved. It's very international and a lot of travel in that sense, but that can work as a very positive -"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your language list will increase as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's interesting is I don't know if we'll learn other languages, but almost everybody has learned Russian. You know, these international partners, in many cases, have already flown their astronauts with them on the Mir, and it's odd sitting and talking with a Chinese guy in Russian or talking with a Frenchman, Jean-Loup Chretien, for instance. He and I actually prefer speaking in Russian as opposed to either French or English. The Italians also. So, in a sense, Russian has become a central language, although English is the primary language on the International Station. So we get a choice of languages, usually Russian or English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's nice you have a back-up. It's one you didn't expect, but it's -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00814:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 7.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's interesting is I don't know if we'll learn other languages, but almost everybody has learned Russian. You know, these international partners, in many cases, have already flown their astronauts with them on the Mir, and it's odd sitting and talking with a Chinese guy in Russian or talking with a Frenchman, Jean-Loup Chretien, for instance. He and I actually prefer speaking in Russian as opposed to either French or English. The Italians also. So, in a sense, Russian has become a central language, although English is the primary language on the International Station. So we get a choice of languages, usually Russian or English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's nice you have a back-up. It's one you didn't expect, but it's -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Some things are better to be said in Russian. Russians have words and expressions that we don't have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Such as?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we don't have a word as good as olbaldenya. If you say to a girl that's what she is, it's better than beautiful and likeable and all that, and we don't even have a word that good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, that's a good example. Is there anything else that you would like to add for the record? This will be kept in the library for future researchers and historians to review, and if there's something that you'd like to add at this time, we certainly would welcome you to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.50281374700144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had electricity. Oh, yeah. We had electricity. And I had a well and an outhouse. So and then I got a little paraffin burning two burner stove, so I could cook on. No refrigeration, so but so we're living comfortably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got to going, showing the films in various places, and on Saturday night I would take the bus with the miners up to the mines, and I would show films there. They really loved it and miners tended to be communists. So one time I slipped in some sort of pro-American political stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, alright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was followed by Laurel and Hardy, so I didn't get any negative feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you showed these movies in town, but you also showed them to the miners."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.447570830001599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got to going, showing the films in various places, and on Saturday night I would take the bus with the miners up to the mines, and I would show films there. They really loved it and miners tended to be communists. So one time I slipped in some sort of pro-American political stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, alright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was followed by Laurel and Hardy, so I didn't get any negative feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you showed these movies in town, but you also showed them to the miners."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miners, yeah, three communities in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to know people that way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.497300922223998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was followed by Laurel and Hardy, so I didn't get any negative feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you showed these movies in town, but you also showed them to the miners."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miners, yeah, three communities in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to know people that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, were community members also involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.663667691359997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miners, yeah, three communities in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to know people that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, were community members also involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they wouldn't let me go unescorted. Heaven forbid a woman unescorted alone. When I first moved into the community, in fact, I had one mother's club, one part of town, a small town and then 10 blocks away another one. And they would, oh no, we've got to walk you there. And after a while I said, everybody knows me here. Nobody's going to mess with me. You don't need to walk with me. I'll just go on my own. Oh yeah, that makes sense because you do the Peace Corps thing. You introduce yourself to the mayor, to the police chief, to all the authorities, the city council people. And so you were a known quantity and you were actually protected by the whole community because they wanted you to like them and have a good experience. And they succeeded. I liked it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first volunteer at that site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.959630768177774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, were community members also involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they wouldn't let me go unescorted. Heaven forbid a woman unescorted alone. When I first moved into the community, in fact, I had one mother's club, one part of town, a small town and then 10 blocks away another one. And they would, oh no, we've got to walk you there. And after a while I said, everybody knows me here. Nobody's going to mess with me. You don't need to walk with me. I'll just go on my own. Oh yeah, that makes sense because you do the Peace Corps thing. You introduce yourself to the mayor, to the police chief, to all the authorities, the city council people. And so you were a known quantity and you were actually protected by the whole community because they wanted you to like them and have a good experience. And they succeeded. I liked it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first volunteer at that site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you think all volunteers, all female volunteers, were treated the same way by their community? Were they equally cautious, like wanting to escort them everywhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.955145297975305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they wouldn't let me go unescorted. Heaven forbid a woman unescorted alone. When I first moved into the community, in fact, I had one mother's club, one part of town, a small town and then 10 blocks away another one. And they would, oh no, we've got to walk you there. And after a while I said, everybody knows me here. Nobody's going to mess with me. You don't need to walk with me. I'll just go on my own. Oh yeah, that makes sense because you do the Peace Corps thing. You introduce yourself to the mayor, to the police chief, to all the authorities, the city council people. And so you were a known quantity and you were actually protected by the whole community because they wanted you to like them and have a good experience. And they succeeded. I liked it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first volunteer at that site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you think all volunteers, all female volunteers, were treated the same way by their community? Were they equally cautious, like wanting to escort them everywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so in Latin America, especially in the mid-sixties. You know, there was a lot of concern about women alone. No, if I would take a bus between communities, there would always be a woman or a family would, where are you going, to check on me. And if it was a place I'd never been before, I had a place to stay by the time I got off the bus. But sometimes I had a place to stay, but they wouldn't let me go anywhere outside without them because they felt I should be escorted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the women from the community also needed a man with them or someone with them to escort them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.061272553305894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you think all volunteers, all female volunteers, were treated the same way by their community? Were they equally cautious, like wanting to escort them everywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so in Latin America, especially in the mid-sixties. You know, there was a lot of concern about women alone. No, if I would take a bus between communities, there would always be a woman or a family would, where are you going, to check on me. And if it was a place I'd never been before, I had a place to stay by the time I got off the bus. But sometimes I had a place to stay, but they wouldn't let me go anywhere outside without them because they felt I should be escorted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the women from the community also needed a man with them or someone with them to escort them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of the general view, but I think more so for me because I wasn't from there, and they felt that I wasn't aware of all of the things in the community that could happen or a woman's role. So it was very good. And as I said, not being paid was wonderful. They knew I wasn't rich."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that last, that you were not paid?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.179191725895437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so in Latin America, especially in the mid-sixties. You know, there was a lot of concern about women alone. No, if I would take a bus between communities, there would always be a woman or a family would, where are you going, to check on me. And if it was a place I'd never been before, I had a place to stay by the time I got off the bus. But sometimes I had a place to stay, but they wouldn't let me go anywhere outside without them because they felt I should be escorted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so the women from the community also needed a man with them or someone with them to escort them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of the general view, but I think more so for me because I wasn't from there, and they felt that I wasn't aware of all of the things in the community that could happen or a woman's role. So it was very good. And as I said, not being paid was wonderful. They knew I wasn't rich."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that last, that you were not paid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a couple months. And so that was wonderful because I would go to the store to buy something a little little. And I come back and there was, what's all this other stuff? And then I get home and they said. People would knock on the door. Oh, we have way too many so-and-so, so they'd give me more food. It was wonderful. It was also the very good bad luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did the community see you? Like, I guess we kind of jumped right on in. So I guess. Well, I want to ask you like your entry into the community and then even to country, but I don't know how we want to. And then I want to know like why you joined the Peace Corps in the first place. I don't know what's the best way of putting all that together now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.199101917661597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was kind of the general view, but I think more so for me because I wasn't from there, and they felt that I wasn't aware of all of the things in the community that could happen or a woman's role. So it was very good. And as I said, not being paid was wonderful. They knew I wasn't rich."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that last, that you were not paid?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a couple months. And so that was wonderful because I would go to the store to buy something a little little. And I come back and there was, what's all this other stuff? And then I get home and they said. People would knock on the door. Oh, we have way too many so-and-so, so they'd give me more food. It was wonderful. It was also the very good bad luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did the community see you? Like, I guess we kind of jumped right on in. So I guess. Well, I want to ask you like your entry into the community and then even to country, but I don't know how we want to. And then I want to know like why you joined the Peace Corps in the first place. I don't know what's the best way of putting all that together now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, the reason I joined the Peace Corps was Kennedy. John F. Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.776779908512885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, a couple months. And so that was wonderful because I would go to the store to buy something a little little. And I come back and there was, what's all this other stuff? And then I get home and they said. People would knock on the door. Oh, we have way too many so-and-so, so they'd give me more food. It was wonderful. It was also the very good bad luck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did the community see you? Like, I guess we kind of jumped right on in. So I guess. Well, I want to ask you like your entry into the community and then even to country, but I don't know how we want to. And then I want to know like why you joined the Peace Corps in the first place. I don't know what's the best way of putting all that together now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, the reason I joined the Peace Corps was Kennedy. John F. Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I admired him and, you know, thought it was wonderful to be our president. And then when the assassination happened, I was. He started the Peace Corps so. And I think it was '63. The assassination occurred and I was finishing my sophomore year in college and I told my mom, I'm going to join the Peace Corps. She said, no, no. You'll be much more valuable when you have your degree. Just wait. I think she was thinking it would go out of my mind as soon as I graduated. In August I graduated in the summer session. In September, I was in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you study in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.418644342792094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, the reason I joined the Peace Corps was Kennedy. John F. Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why is that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I admired him and, you know, thought it was wonderful to be our president. And then when the assassination happened, I was. He started the Peace Corps so. And I think it was '63. The assassination occurred and I was finishing my sophomore year in college and I told my mom, I'm going to join the Peace Corps. She said, no, no. You'll be much more valuable when you have your degree. Just wait. I think she was thinking it would go out of my mind as soon as I graduated. In August I graduated in the summer session. In September, I was in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you study in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you grow up? Where did you study?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.909604825324549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I admired him and, you know, thought it was wonderful to be our president. And then when the assassination happened, I was. He started the Peace Corps so. And I think it was '63. The assassination occurred and I was finishing my sophomore year in college and I told my mom, I'm going to join the Peace Corps. She said, no, no. You'll be much more valuable when you have your degree. Just wait. I think she was thinking it would go out of my mind as soon as I graduated. In August I graduated in the summer session. In September, I was in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you study in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you grow up? Where did you study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "St. Paul, Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so you what was the application process like? Did it take you a while then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5921047226228997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "St. Paul, Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so you what was the application process like? Did it take you a while then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hard for me to remember the details it was so long ago, but you had choices then. And I know now you're getting a specific thing. Take it or leave it and then go on to the next. But then you had choices and the idea of Latin America, I was thinking Africa, but they didn't have any Africa assignments for me at that time, so the choices were Latin America. So I said, OK, Spanish would be good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the experience was very good, really helped with the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had Spanish in school before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9912274695809997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hard for me to remember the details it was so long ago, but you had choices then. And I know now you're getting a specific thing. Take it or leave it and then go on to the next. But then you had choices and the idea of Latin America, I was thinking Africa, but they didn't have any Africa assignments for me at that time, so the choices were Latin America. So I said, OK, Spanish would be good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the experience was very good, really helped with the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had Spanish in school before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't bother to take a language because the teaching credential did not require a language and I always thought book learning of a language wouldn't be like living a language, so it turned out OK. Since I was working with mothers clubs and a lot of the mothers, for example, they might have had family members who drove the bus, sons, husbands. After a while, I get on the bus and I'd go to put my money in the till, and they just did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even after you started getting paid again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.434697188423333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the experience was very good, really helped with the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you had Spanish in school before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't bother to take a language because the teaching credential did not require a language and I always thought book learning of a language wouldn't be like living a language, so it turned out OK. Since I was working with mothers clubs and a lot of the mothers, for example, they might have had family members who drove the bus, sons, husbands. After a while, I get on the bus and I'd go to put my money in the till, and they just did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even after you started getting paid again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, couldn't pay for the bus and the bus was crowded. There's always this little seat next to the driver. That's where they would say, sit there. They were going to take care of me, and then I would take busses outside of the, the communal busses, sometimes. And they got to know me a lot, and they said, look, you don't have to go into town to get the bus. Tell me where your bus stop is, your closest stop is, we'll just pick you up there. Just let us know when you're going to get on the bus. And people were very accommodating and the social worker out of the regional center who was working on birth control. Now we got joined together and she was not having any difficulty getting women to accept birth control with or without their husbands knowing. And so that was her. She was OK operating that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like the pill or like, what kind of birth control? Is that the time of the pill?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.927441320470369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't bother to take a language because the teaching credential did not require a language and I always thought book learning of a language wouldn't be like living a language, so it turned out OK. Since I was working with mothers clubs and a lot of the mothers, for example, they might have had family members who drove the bus, sons, husbands. After a while, I get on the bus and I'd go to put my money in the till, and they just did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even after you started getting paid again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, couldn't pay for the bus and the bus was crowded. There's always this little seat next to the driver. That's where they would say, sit there. They were going to take care of me, and then I would take busses outside of the, the communal busses, sometimes. And they got to know me a lot, and they said, look, you don't have to go into town to get the bus. Tell me where your bus stop is, your closest stop is, we'll just pick you up there. Just let us know when you're going to get on the bus. And people were very accommodating and the social worker out of the regional center who was working on birth control. Now we got joined together and she was not having any difficulty getting women to accept birth control with or without their husbands knowing. And so that was her. She was OK operating that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like the pill or like, what kind of birth control? Is that the time of the pill?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the time of the pill. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it's not that important."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.474934800522632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, couldn't pay for the bus and the bus was crowded. There's always this little seat next to the driver. That's where they would say, sit there. They were going to take care of me, and then I would take busses outside of the, the communal busses, sometimes. And they got to know me a lot, and they said, look, you don't have to go into town to get the bus. Tell me where your bus stop is, your closest stop is, we'll just pick you up there. Just let us know when you're going to get on the bus. And people were very accommodating and the social worker out of the regional center who was working on birth control. Now we got joined together and she was not having any difficulty getting women to accept birth control with or without their husbands knowing. And so that was her. She was OK operating that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like the pill or like, what kind of birth control? Is that the time of the pill?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was the time of the pill. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it's not that important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there is also the IUDs. So yeah, so that was interesting. We went to communities in that capacity as well. So the films and the mothers clubs and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, how did you get to know people from your community? Because it seems like everywhere you went, I mean, people seem to really like you and like the fact that you were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6693207140228146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they fed me all the time, I must have gained 25 pounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was like, uhh. But just I was young, smiley, and they just felt protective. And then, you know, being protecting me gave me a way to also help get them to do what I wished to do. I wanted to do summer camp for kids, and the best way would be to find a school. Well, there weren't. I went and checked all the schools. They wanted us to be on the coast in a nice place, and all those schools were taken except the school that was not quite finished yet. And so they said, well, if you can get the architect and you can get them to agree to sign you, the school will do that. By the time I got through with checking all those people, they gave me money for the school, for my summer school. And so I had the teenage girls, mostly, there were a couple of boys. They were trained as camp counselors by the group that's in all countries training people. Anyway. They were officially trained and given a certificate because when the communist newspaper articles said, what is she doing? Propagandizing our youth and came back. Wait, she's certified as a camp director, cause I took a course. And all the kids that are counselors were certified with counseling. So that ended that.\n\nSo we had three sessions in the city of Viña del Mar with the teenagers. They sent a bus. They took the teenagers all around and it was wonderful. But, you know, we were in a school. Well, the schools weren't made for sleeping, so I called the army and the army sent cushions for the floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because I met some military people, so they provided the cushions. The moms got around to all the large landowners and got food that way, and the moms came along and did the cooking. And so we had three sessions with kids, young girls, young boys, and then teenagers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was at a school that was just being finished?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.530025572867672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because I met some military people, so they provided the cushions. The moms got around to all the large landowners and got food that way, and the moms came along and did the cooking. And so we had three sessions with kids, young girls, young boys, and then teenagers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was at a school that was just being finished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. Nobody's ever used it. And it was like, oh dear, you know, it's not going to be as clean and pristine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were at site, you were kind of looking at kind of where to do this camp. And so you secured funding, essentially secured funding, to complete the school and then you got cushions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually the architect and the school builders who gave me the money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. But you helped secure that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.033361747630746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. Nobody's ever used it. And it was like, oh dear, you know, it's not going to be as clean and pristine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were at site, you were kind of looking at kind of where to do this camp. And so you secured funding, essentially secured funding, to complete the school and then you got cushions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually the architect and the school builders who gave me the money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. But you helped secure that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was one of your projects when you were already at site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4815130529230505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually the architect and the school builders who gave me the money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. But you helped secure that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was one of your projects when you were already at site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And it was along the beach. So it took some looking to find schools that weren't already pledged to summer camps. So got that going. We had wonderful session. I was making money showing films and some mothers clubs are carrying on their projects. And then I started working for the governor's wife around the province, offering classes if they set up the venues and places for the teachers to stay, and also same as centros de madres which is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that little bit. So you worked for the governor? What were you doing with him?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.979458947692279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was one of your projects when you were already at site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And it was along the beach. So it took some looking to find schools that weren't already pledged to summer camps. So got that going. We had wonderful session. I was making money showing films and some mothers clubs are carrying on their projects. And then I started working for the governor's wife around the province, offering classes if they set up the venues and places for the teachers to stay, and also same as centros de madres which is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that little bit. So you worked for the governor? What were you doing with him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was well, he, his wife, it was a policy of the nation. The wives of the governors were the heads of the center, the mothers clubs, centros de madres, for the province. And they had resources that if you could get a vehicle to go to Santiago and purchase all these things with money you earned with your mothers clubs, you could have all those things taken back. So they had material and whatever supplies they needed for their projects. And so I was able to go around the province, kind of. We can provide you teachers and materials if you can get the venue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you talked about before. So what exactly is this mother's club? Yeah, what all did you do with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.147480182336146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was well, he, his wife, it was a policy of the nation. The wives of the governors were the heads of the center, the mothers clubs, centros de madres, for the province. And they had resources that if you could get a vehicle to go to Santiago and purchase all these things with money you earned with your mothers clubs, you could have all those things taken back. So they had material and whatever supplies they needed for their projects. And so I was able to go around the province, kind of. We can provide you teachers and materials if you can get the venue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you talked about before. So what exactly is this mother's club? Yeah, what all did you do with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I, that's what I attached myself to in my community. There was there was actually three levels. There was the mothers clubs, the community government, and the youth clubs. And so actually, with the youth clubs that got girls into basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were good, but. So in community government, that was a little more tricky because the person who liked me a lot initially, when he found I wasn't into taking things from the projects. Like we got the food deliveries through the U.S. government was providing food deliveries for places after the earthquake. And so we got that and they'd, you know, deliver it to each household. And if there was a household that didn't have a man who was working on projects, then we'd give it to the whoever was there. But part of getting the donation was to participate in the projects. We worked on our own roads, we cleaned out aseques and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you clean out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.71942242481794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I, that's what I attached myself to in my community. There was there was actually three levels. There was the mothers clubs, the community government, and the youth clubs. And so actually, with the youth clubs that got girls into basketball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were good, but. So in community government, that was a little more tricky because the person who liked me a lot initially, when he found I wasn't into taking things from the projects. Like we got the food deliveries through the U.S. government was providing food deliveries for places after the earthquake. And so we got that and they'd, you know, deliver it to each household. And if there was a household that didn't have a man who was working on projects, then we'd give it to the whoever was there. But part of getting the donation was to participate in the projects. We worked on our own roads, we cleaned out aseques and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you clean out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Places where the water would go through. It was much like in some places like New Mexico, where the water system worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did all this work with the mothers club?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3549138053532666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were good, but. So in community government, that was a little more tricky because the person who liked me a lot initially, when he found I wasn't into taking things from the projects. Like we got the food deliveries through the U.S. government was providing food deliveries for places after the earthquake. And so we got that and they'd, you know, deliver it to each household. And if there was a household that didn't have a man who was working on projects, then we'd give it to the whoever was there. But part of getting the donation was to participate in the projects. We worked on our own roads, we cleaned out aseques and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you clean out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Places where the water would go through. It was much like in some places like New Mexico, where the water system worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did all this work with the mothers club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for this part, we were recruiting men to do the physical labor because that's just the cultural way to do it. And that participation would get them their share of the food that was delivered by no se puedes vender ni cambiar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can't sell or change."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.061015339281407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Places where the water would go through. It was much like in some places like New Mexico, where the water system worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did all this work with the mothers club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for this part, we were recruiting men to do the physical labor because that's just the cultural way to do it. And that participation would get them their share of the food that was delivered by no se puedes vender ni cambiar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can't sell or change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, if this was from the U.S. government and I'm blanking on the branch of the government that did that. But, so we were able to help people that way. And also by having fundraising events where I showed films, the only movie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was also with the mothers club?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.845572599201563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for this part, we were recruiting men to do the physical labor because that's just the cultural way to do it. And that participation would get them their share of the food that was delivered by no se puedes vender ni cambiar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can't sell or change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, if this was from the U.S. government and I'm blanking on the branch of the government that did that. But, so we were able to help people that way. And also by having fundraising events where I showed films, the only movie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was also with the mothers club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.717302888001736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, if this was from the U.S. government and I'm blanking on the branch of the government that did that. But, so we were able to help people that way. And also by having fundraising events where I showed films, the only movie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was also with the mothers club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we provide a lot for the community that was didn't have much opportunities for entertainment and the kids didn't have an opportunity for summer camp. So we provided that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, most of your work was through this mothers club."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.574780986668594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we provide a lot for the community that was didn't have much opportunities for entertainment and the kids didn't have an opportunity for summer camp. So we provided that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, most of your work was through this mothers club."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through this mothers club and through, oh, I forgot to mention. Cemento Melon, the cement factory. Major industry in the community, in the area. You need cement, we'll send it. We did a lot. One of them, my community, um, did the prefab wooden housing project, but on the same site and near this other town I lived in, had all this rebar and brick that was just there from some project that never happened. And we said if we get cement, we got the rebar, we got the bricks. We can build the building. And we did. We built the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you build it with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.305312207409549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we provide a lot for the community that was didn't have much opportunities for entertainment and the kids didn't have an opportunity for summer camp. So we provided that as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, most of your work was through this mothers club."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through this mothers club and through, oh, I forgot to mention. Cemento Melon, the cement factory. Major industry in the community, in the area. You need cement, we'll send it. We did a lot. One of them, my community, um, did the prefab wooden housing project, but on the same site and near this other town I lived in, had all this rebar and brick that was just there from some project that never happened. And we said if we get cement, we got the rebar, we got the bricks. We can build the building. And we did. We built the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you build it with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the moms and their husbands. Because there were men in the community with those kinds of skills to make sure it was done safely and properly. So it's mainly a weekend event where we grab the men. The women would, you know, provide food, and we built a building that was designed mainly for our mothers club. But when I went, I would go back to Chile every eight to 10 years, and I think the last time I was back was 10 years ago. That building. Well, first of all, the mayor who didn't know me, they had a dinner for me. To thank me for the work I did and for the building that we were having our dinner in, which was now being used as a school because the regular school was under repair. And it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.005902452677276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Through this mothers club and through, oh, I forgot to mention. Cemento Melon, the cement factory. Major industry in the community, in the area. You need cement, we'll send it. We did a lot. One of them, my community, um, did the prefab wooden housing project, but on the same site and near this other town I lived in, had all this rebar and brick that was just there from some project that never happened. And we said if we get cement, we got the rebar, we got the bricks. We can build the building. And we did. We built the building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who did you build it with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the moms and their husbands. Because there were men in the community with those kinds of skills to make sure it was done safely and properly. So it's mainly a weekend event where we grab the men. The women would, you know, provide food, and we built a building that was designed mainly for our mothers club. But when I went, I would go back to Chile every eight to 10 years, and I think the last time I was back was 10 years ago. That building. Well, first of all, the mayor who didn't know me, they had a dinner for me. To thank me for the work I did and for the building that we were having our dinner in, which was now being used as a school because the regular school was under repair. And it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 10 years ago when I went back for a visit. And then, you know, there was, in the national newspaper, there was a little article about what happened in Nogales and a little picture of me. And so I made the newspaper. It was really fantastic. But I was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Nogales?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.7843360585303065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the moms and their husbands. Because there were men in the community with those kinds of skills to make sure it was done safely and properly. So it's mainly a weekend event where we grab the men. The women would, you know, provide food, and we built a building that was designed mainly for our mothers club. But when I went, I would go back to Chile every eight to 10 years, and I think the last time I was back was 10 years ago. That building. Well, first of all, the mayor who didn't know me, they had a dinner for me. To thank me for the work I did and for the building that we were having our dinner in, which was now being used as a school because the regular school was under repair. And it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 10 years ago when I went back for a visit. And then, you know, there was, in the national newspaper, there was a little article about what happened in Nogales and a little picture of me. And so I made the newspaper. It was really fantastic. But I was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Nogales?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the name of the town. And in the quinta región, the center was Quillota. The larger governacion, the governor's office, worked out of there. But I was just so gratified, humble, whatever, the idea that people who never knew me, because most of the mothers I worked with were no longer around. I was dealing with the daughters of those people who remembered me when they were little when they came to camp. But and then the politicians of the town, they didn't know me. So it was really very nice. So I must say that Chile assignment was the most encompassing. I was so young and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you'd wanted to join because of Kennedy. Any other reasons? Just, I mean, what appealed to you about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.538151176144785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 10 years ago when I went back for a visit. And then, you know, there was, in the national newspaper, there was a little article about what happened in Nogales and a little picture of me. And so I made the newspaper. It was really fantastic. But I was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is Nogales?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the name of the town. And in the quinta región, the center was Quillota. The larger governacion, the governor's office, worked out of there. But I was just so gratified, humble, whatever, the idea that people who never knew me, because most of the mothers I worked with were no longer around. I was dealing with the daughters of those people who remembered me when they were little when they came to camp. But and then the politicians of the town, they didn't know me. So it was really very nice. So I must say that Chile assignment was the most encompassing. I was so young and, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you said you'd wanted to join because of Kennedy. Any other reasons? Just, I mean, what appealed to you about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I took Girls State. I was a Girls State for in Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a Girls State?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.306359476721957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I took Girls State. I was a Girls State for in Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's a Girls State?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Girls State is where they take girls and teach them about government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so Girls State kind of gave me an idea about politics. But it was the whole Kennedy mystique and the fact that he was assassinated and we had something called Peace Corps and travel, yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I mean, I didn't even ask you about training. How did you guys get trained?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.921431452743156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so Girls State kind of gave me an idea about politics. But it was the whole Kennedy mystique and the fact that he was assassinated and we had something called Peace Corps and travel, yes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I mean, I didn't even ask you about training. How did you guys get trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our training was in the U.S., in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I now live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's not why I live in Albuquerque, but it's coincidental. It was domestic training and where they thought that physical stress was equal to mental stress. They subsequently dropped that idea. But so your weekends were spent doing something strenuous, like they made you ride horses, for example. I love riding horses, and I got censored all the time. They always run when you're in front! That's right. I like to run on a horse. And then they made us do farming, which, you know, none of us really actually farmed as Peace Corps volunteers. They wanted, oh, and we had to climb up Sandia Mountains. It's ten thousand feet and you had to go up to the peak and then rappel down. Well, guess who loves rappelling? The first time I ever did it, but I loved it. And so it was kind of like, can I go up again and fell down? No, that's enough Susan. So the physical stress was fun for me. It really was stressful for some other people, but there was no real link between physical stress and mental stress. They finally gave up that whole idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have Spanish classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.5793682808257286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our training was in the U.S., in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I now live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's not why I live in Albuquerque, but it's coincidental. It was domestic training and where they thought that physical stress was equal to mental stress. They subsequently dropped that idea. But so your weekends were spent doing something strenuous, like they made you ride horses, for example. I love riding horses, and I got censored all the time. They always run when you're in front! That's right. I like to run on a horse. And then they made us do farming, which, you know, none of us really actually farmed as Peace Corps volunteers. They wanted, oh, and we had to climb up Sandia Mountains. It's ten thousand feet and you had to go up to the peak and then rappel down. Well, guess who loves rappelling? The first time I ever did it, but I loved it. And so it was kind of like, can I go up again and fell down? No, that's enough Susan. So the physical stress was fun for me. It really was stressful for some other people, but there was no real link between physical stress and mental stress. They finally gave up that whole idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have Spanish classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was. New Mexican Spanish was, which was not Chilean Spanish. There's a different accent and different vocabulary in many ways. When I say some words, when I first used them in Chile, I got these horrible looks, like what? That's a wrong word for whatever you're trying to say, and we never say that, that's kind of insulting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how long did you have training in Albuquerque?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.199298089806365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That's not why I live in Albuquerque, but it's coincidental. It was domestic training and where they thought that physical stress was equal to mental stress. They subsequently dropped that idea. But so your weekends were spent doing something strenuous, like they made you ride horses, for example. I love riding horses, and I got censored all the time. They always run when you're in front! That's right. I like to run on a horse. And then they made us do farming, which, you know, none of us really actually farmed as Peace Corps volunteers. They wanted, oh, and we had to climb up Sandia Mountains. It's ten thousand feet and you had to go up to the peak and then rappel down. Well, guess who loves rappelling? The first time I ever did it, but I loved it. And so it was kind of like, can I go up again and fell down? No, that's enough Susan. So the physical stress was fun for me. It really was stressful for some other people, but there was no real link between physical stress and mental stress. They finally gave up that whole idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have Spanish classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was. New Mexican Spanish was, which was not Chilean Spanish. There's a different accent and different vocabulary in many ways. When I say some words, when I first used them in Chile, I got these horrible looks, like what? That's a wrong word for whatever you're trying to say, and we never say that, that's kind of insulting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how long did you have training in Albuquerque?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was around four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four months. OK. So the whole training and then did you find out your site assignment in Albuquerque?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.888108988673738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was. New Mexican Spanish was, which was not Chilean Spanish. There's a different accent and different vocabulary in many ways. When I say some words, when I first used them in Chile, I got these horrible looks, like what? That's a wrong word for whatever you're trying to say, and we never say that, that's kind of insulting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how long did you have training in Albuquerque?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was around four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four months. OK. So the whole training and then did you find out your site assignment in Albuquerque?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before, I knew what the assignment was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, even before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.653454431859709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was around four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Four months. OK. So the whole training and then did you find out your site assignment in Albuquerque?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before, I knew what the assignment was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, even before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we knew what we were training for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew what place you would go into?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.392727146510787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Before, I knew what the assignment was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, even before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we knew what we were training for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew what place you would go into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't know the specific community, that came later. And, oh, for Peace Corps training in Chile, the old way, you showed up at the place and they gave you an address and a name and you were supposed to go there and spend the weekend and have a little project. What? So I ended up finding, it was a small community somewhere, and I remember going in. I had to walk around a dead body and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to walk around a dead body?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.214141273900875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we knew what we were training for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you knew what place you would go into?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't know the specific community, that came later. And, oh, for Peace Corps training in Chile, the old way, you showed up at the place and they gave you an address and a name and you were supposed to go there and spend the weekend and have a little project. What? So I ended up finding, it was a small community somewhere, and I remember going in. I had to walk around a dead body and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to walk around a dead body?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dead body in the street. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did, what happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.126823637667638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't know the specific community, that came later. And, oh, for Peace Corps training in Chile, the old way, you showed up at the place and they gave you an address and a name and you were supposed to go there and spend the weekend and have a little project. What? So I ended up finding, it was a small community somewhere, and I remember going in. I had to walk around a dead body and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to walk around a dead body?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dead body in the street. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did, what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that common? Did that ever happen any other time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.140915152964041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dead body in the street. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did, what happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that common? Did that ever happen any other time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Alright. But you walked around a dead body."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.267683503293378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that common? Did that ever happen any other time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Alright. But you walked around a dead body."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. And then I had to do a project with basically guys not much older than me. It was kind of weird, but I can't even remember what we did. We didn't bury the body. But I think it was we gathered some data or something. I mean, it was something they, you know, hungered to. I don't know what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was during training or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.408537225881531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Alright. But you walked around a dead body."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. And then I had to do a project with basically guys not much older than me. It was kind of weird, but I can't even remember what we did. We didn't bury the body. But I think it was we gathered some data or something. I mean, it was something they, you know, hungered to. I don't know what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was during training or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was during training in Albuquerque. It was kind of the first day I reported for training, they gave me the slip of paper that said, go there. Where is it? Well you figure that out, just go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this dead body was Albuquerque, New Mexico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.676152473201702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. And then I had to do a project with basically guys not much older than me. It was kind of weird, but I can't even remember what we did. We didn't bury the body. But I think it was we gathered some data or something. I mean, it was something they, you know, hungered to. I don't know what they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was during training or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was during training in Albuquerque. It was kind of the first day I reported for training, they gave me the slip of paper that said, go there. Where is it? Well you figure that out, just go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so this dead body was Albuquerque, New Mexico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not in the city of Albuquerque. It was in that community I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so it was usually a lower income area I would guess?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.303891942224324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not in the city of Albuquerque. It was in that community I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so it was usually a lower income area I would guess?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and it was kind of like, go out there and survive an do something positive for a weekend. Yeah, but they no longer on-site. When they're in-country training, I'm not sure exactly what they do because I subsequently had two other Peace Corps assignments. But once you've been a Peace Corps volunteer the first time, they don't feel that you need the full orientation the second time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they would just kind of give me a two-day run through with the Peace Corps staff orienting me, but I didn't have to do the full training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's get back to that. Ok, so this first time you were in Albuquerque, New Mexico. You had three or four months training the whole time and then they gave you like they told you, like the name of the town where you were going to be while you were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.782102158027026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and it was kind of like, go out there and survive an do something positive for a weekend. Yeah, but they no longer on-site. When they're in-country training, I'm not sure exactly what they do because I subsequently had two other Peace Corps assignments. But once you've been a Peace Corps volunteer the first time, they don't feel that you need the full orientation the second time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they would just kind of give me a two-day run through with the Peace Corps staff orienting me, but I didn't have to do the full training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's get back to that. Ok, so this first time you were in Albuquerque, New Mexico. You had three or four months training the whole time and then they gave you like they told you, like the name of the town where you were going to be while you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we got that once we were in country. We arrived in Chile, and it was, as I said, during the holiday time. And I remember they took us to a barbecue kind of event. It's very nice. And then they told us where we're going to be assigned and assigned women in pairs. And they said the social worker will take you there. And also we'll take you shopping so you can buy a bed and you can buy a few other things like that. And that happened. The social worker who I said never was fond of, she didn't tell us you could get normal beds. She took us somewhere where we got a bed where the mattresses is in like two halves. So you know, your butt's always sore and it was lousy for sleeping. For a while I thought, that's the only kind that was available. Anyway, it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after that, you got brought to site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.09122462003003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they would just kind of give me a two-day run through with the Peace Corps staff orienting me, but I didn't have to do the full training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, let's get back to that. Ok, so this first time you were in Albuquerque, New Mexico. You had three or four months training the whole time and then they gave you like they told you, like the name of the town where you were going to be while you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we got that once we were in country. We arrived in Chile, and it was, as I said, during the holiday time. And I remember they took us to a barbecue kind of event. It's very nice. And then they told us where we're going to be assigned and assigned women in pairs. And they said the social worker will take you there. And also we'll take you shopping so you can buy a bed and you can buy a few other things like that. And that happened. The social worker who I said never was fond of, she didn't tell us you could get normal beds. She took us somewhere where we got a bed where the mattresses is in like two halves. So you know, your butt's always sore and it was lousy for sleeping. For a while I thought, that's the only kind that was available. Anyway, it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after that, you got brought to site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To site, yeah. And I had my, Kathy was then involved. You know, there's a lot of U.S. military training with the Chilean military, and some people thought of you, oh, Americans, Americans. So they brought us two Green Beret people to our door to meet us one day. And I was like, I'm sitting there, uh, you better go. You better go. Kathy said give me your key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you want them to go so badly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.434694022255588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we got that once we were in country. We arrived in Chile, and it was, as I said, during the holiday time. And I remember they took us to a barbecue kind of event. It's very nice. And then they told us where we're going to be assigned and assigned women in pairs. And they said the social worker will take you there. And also we'll take you shopping so you can buy a bed and you can buy a few other things like that. And that happened. The social worker who I said never was fond of, she didn't tell us you could get normal beds. She took us somewhere where we got a bed where the mattresses is in like two halves. So you know, your butt's always sore and it was lousy for sleeping. For a while I thought, that's the only kind that was available. Anyway, it was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after that, you got brought to site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To site, yeah. And I had my, Kathy was then involved. You know, there's a lot of U.S. military training with the Chilean military, and some people thought of you, oh, Americans, Americans. So they brought us two Green Beret people to our door to meet us one day. And I was like, I'm sitting there, uh, you better go. You better go. Kathy said give me your key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you want them to go so badly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah. Military, U.S. military, and I'm a Peace Corps volunteer? No, no, no, no. But then Kathy started seeing one of the Green Beret guys often, but not in any way that anyone would know that was happening. And she just never got her mind into the whole Peace Corps thing, and she eventually, I think after eight months, she left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of people who left? I mean, was there anyone who after the training in Albuquerque already left or in country too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.594104469172875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To site, yeah. And I had my, Kathy was then involved. You know, there's a lot of U.S. military training with the Chilean military, and some people thought of you, oh, Americans, Americans. So they brought us two Green Beret people to our door to meet us one day. And I was like, I'm sitting there, uh, you better go. You better go. Kathy said give me your key."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you want them to go so badly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah. Military, U.S. military, and I'm a Peace Corps volunteer? No, no, no, no. But then Kathy started seeing one of the Green Beret guys often, but not in any way that anyone would know that was happening. And she just never got her mind into the whole Peace Corps thing, and she eventually, I think after eight months, she left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of people who left? I mean, was there anyone who after the training in Albuquerque already left or in country too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some people, yeah, that just decided they weren't going to go, from the get-go, even though the training was in the U.S., not overseas. And there were some dropouts once they were in country, but Chile's a long country. So we are not, I did not get together with other Peace Corps volunteers, except when they called us together for an event. Otherwise, I was strictly living in my community, which is one of the things I. Peace Corps now and social media. Unfortunately, I think volunteers can, unless they're very, very strict with themselves, they can spend a lot of time on social media. Families and friends come to visit now because it's more possible than way back when. And when I was in Swaziland, which was my third assignment, very small country. On weekends, I noticed volunteers would get together and socialize the weekend in Mbabane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in Chile it wasn't like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.882338299080972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah. Military, U.S. military, and I'm a Peace Corps volunteer? No, no, no, no. But then Kathy started seeing one of the Green Beret guys often, but not in any way that anyone would know that was happening. And she just never got her mind into the whole Peace Corps thing, and she eventually, I think after eight months, she left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of people who left? I mean, was there anyone who after the training in Albuquerque already left or in country too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some people, yeah, that just decided they weren't going to go, from the get-go, even though the training was in the U.S., not overseas. And there were some dropouts once they were in country, but Chile's a long country. So we are not, I did not get together with other Peace Corps volunteers, except when they called us together for an event. Otherwise, I was strictly living in my community, which is one of the things I. Peace Corps now and social media. Unfortunately, I think volunteers can, unless they're very, very strict with themselves, they can spend a lot of time on social media. Families and friends come to visit now because it's more possible than way back when. And when I was in Swaziland, which was my third assignment, very small country. On weekends, I noticed volunteers would get together and socialize the weekend in Mbabane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in Chile it wasn't like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you feel like, how did that impacted your experience there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.31370922120108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some people, yeah, that just decided they weren't going to go, from the get-go, even though the training was in the U.S., not overseas. And there were some dropouts once they were in country, but Chile's a long country. So we are not, I did not get together with other Peace Corps volunteers, except when they called us together for an event. Otherwise, I was strictly living in my community, which is one of the things I. Peace Corps now and social media. Unfortunately, I think volunteers can, unless they're very, very strict with themselves, they can spend a lot of time on social media. Families and friends come to visit now because it's more possible than way back when. And when I was in Swaziland, which was my third assignment, very small country. On weekends, I noticed volunteers would get together and socialize the weekend in Mbabane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in Chile it wasn't like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you feel like, how did that impacted your experience there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much better. I mean, I was part of that, that was my community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ok, so you integrated a little bit better."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.793010245778978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you feel like, how did that impacted your experience there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much better. I mean, I was part of that, that was my community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ok, so you integrated a little bit better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, much better. I was sad to see that in Swaziland because they besides having social media now they're friends and they're saying, we're Americans and they met in the weekend in the capital. I don't feel that they were really depending on their community for their lives. In the early Peace Corps, you did. That was your life. You didn't have all the other facilities or the. Send a letter home and a month later, you get a letter back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and that was the only really communication. Could you call your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.43667805086553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much better. I mean, I was part of that, that was my community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ok, so you integrated a little bit better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, much better. I was sad to see that in Swaziland because they besides having social media now they're friends and they're saying, we're Americans and they met in the weekend in the capital. I don't feel that they were really depending on their community for their lives. In the early Peace Corps, you did. That was your life. You didn't have all the other facilities or the. Send a letter home and a month later, you get a letter back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and that was the only really communication. Could you call your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could call, but that would be very expensive. So, mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Ok, I think you've talked a lot, I mean, is there anything else about your actual experience in Chile you want to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.26297561207281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, much better. I was sad to see that in Swaziland because they besides having social media now they're friends and they're saying, we're Americans and they met in the weekend in the capital. I don't feel that they were really depending on their community for their lives. In the early Peace Corps, you did. That was your life. You didn't have all the other facilities or the. Send a letter home and a month later, you get a letter back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and that was the only really communication. Could you call your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could call, but that would be very expensive. So, mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Ok, I think you've talked a lot, I mean, is there anything else about your actual experience in Chile you want to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so I want to ask you about kind of coming back. What did you end up doing when you came back? How do you feel like it had changed you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.625528457858678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could call, but that would be very expensive. So, mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Ok, I think you've talked a lot, I mean, is there anything else about your actual experience in Chile you want to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so I want to ask you about kind of coming back. What did you end up doing when you came back? How do you feel like it had changed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was considering extending a third year and I said, now wait a minute. This is not the real world for me and everybody wants me to succeed here. And so they always make things work for me. It might not be exactly the way I have in mind, but it'll always work out because they like me and they want me to be successful. That was how everything worked, and I thought, that's not real. Let me go back and do what I was trained to do. Let me teach school in the United States, and I student taught in Minneapolis in a very private school. Well, first they sent me to the University High School, where I was lousy because those kids were kids of professors and that's not my group. And then they put me in an inner-city middle school in Minneapolis and that my advisor, seeing me the first time, came the second time and said, oh my god, this is you. Because, yeah. The kids, I don't know. We started doing plays, writing plays and doing plays, and I don't know. It was fun and they had fun. And I had one American Indian kid who had been absent and he was huge and he was known to be bad news. They said, you want this kid, you know, as soon as he does something, you throw them out. Well, the first time he did something, I said, well, no. Went out in the hall, and said, glad to have you in class, but there are certain behaviors. And then he, boom, the locker, you know, it sounded like a gunshot. And everybody thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been shot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.13947606428742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so I want to ask you about kind of coming back. What did you end up doing when you came back? How do you feel like it had changed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was considering extending a third year and I said, now wait a minute. This is not the real world for me and everybody wants me to succeed here. And so they always make things work for me. It might not be exactly the way I have in mind, but it'll always work out because they like me and they want me to be successful. That was how everything worked, and I thought, that's not real. Let me go back and do what I was trained to do. Let me teach school in the United States, and I student taught in Minneapolis in a very private school. Well, first they sent me to the University High School, where I was lousy because those kids were kids of professors and that's not my group. And then they put me in an inner-city middle school in Minneapolis and that my advisor, seeing me the first time, came the second time and said, oh my god, this is you. Because, yeah. The kids, I don't know. We started doing plays, writing plays and doing plays, and I don't know. It was fun and they had fun. And I had one American Indian kid who had been absent and he was huge and he was known to be bad news. They said, you want this kid, you know, as soon as he does something, you throw them out. Well, the first time he did something, I said, well, no. Went out in the hall, and said, glad to have you in class, but there are certain behaviors. And then he, boom, the locker, you know, it sounded like a gunshot. And everybody thought I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had been shot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he and I go back in the room and everybody's like, oh! And he sat down and he was fine. It was just, I don't know. I didn't ever have problems with discipline. It was kind of like, let's discuss it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were teaching and then how?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.579600079367186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he and I go back in the room and everybody's like, oh! And he sat down and he was fine. It was just, I don't know. I didn't ever have problems with discipline. It was kind of like, let's discuss it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were teaching and then how?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, I always would do my own discipline. A teacher who was sent their kids to the office I thought was a bad teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, how would you do your own discipline, like taking him out in the hallway and talking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Talking to him. And, you know, like, maybe I'd get a group broken in. A new student would come in and, you know, the usual on the floor when you put the stuff in front of them. I'd already primed the kids. Ice cream on Friday, we notice nothing unless it's what we're doing as a class. And they bought into that. And so a student might maybe hold out for a week maximum two before they were part of the group. And it was just positive reinforcement. I don't believe in negative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were teacher. How long were you a teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.272214722400829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that whole thing. It was kind of funny, but I'll be your long- term sub. Fine. And then after that, they finished that year. Then I became a direct hire in San Francisco Unified School District. And that was a regular ed teacher. But somehow or another, I ended up in special ed and I became actually acting supervisor of special ed because I didn't have an administrative credential. So I was acting supervisor of special ed, mainly L.D., and I also, the kids that I picked up my, I think the first two years I was probably a teacher and the administrator for the program really liked me. So then she wanted me to be a resource teacher for the other L.D. teachers. And as soon as she got me into that, she retired. So she had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's kind of go back to Peace Corps. I just was curious about how long you were a teacher for. So you had a career in teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah for eight years. And then when my kids, I picked up in middle school, moved on onto kids. I kept them all three years and then we all moved to the same high school and then they graduated. And then I was, I don't like San Francisco anymore. I'm going to go to Alaska. I was depressed and I didn't realize what was going on. So then Alaska, I was based in Nome and I was doing education, teacher training and supervision of student teachers, both non-native and native. And I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you go back into the Peace Corps again? Because you said then you had service in Liberia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in Alaska until '68 and then '82 you joined again. So that was fourteen years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.413571913778698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah for eight years. And then when my kids, I picked up in middle school, moved on onto kids. I kept them all three years and then we all moved to the same high school and then they graduated. And then I was, I don't like San Francisco anymore. I'm going to go to Alaska. I was depressed and I didn't realize what was going on. So then Alaska, I was based in Nome and I was doing education, teacher training and supervision of student teachers, both non-native and native. And I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you go back into the Peace Corps again? Because you said then you had service in Liberia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in Alaska until '68 and then '82 you joined again. So that was fourteen years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So in Alaska, you know, this program and there was a lot of. The person running the program was taking advantage of native women. And you know, and I think by the end he lost that job. And but then it was suggested that maybe I should leave that program. And so then I went to the public school districts and all the school districts because they knew everything was small. They all wanted to hire me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.87732772809149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I, the program that they didn't respect for teacher training, I had taken on. So I got my choice. And so I was in one school district for two years. But then the superintendent, the special ed director, they were all really not good. I thought, OK, I'm just going to join the Peace Corps again, and I'll come back when they're gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway then I went to Liberia and it was a university assignment and I was assigned to just freshman English. It was like I was back in middle school again, so that was kind of the level. And I liked it, but it was kind of like, oh, that's only three hours a day. I got a whole rest of the day. So then I looked into how they did teacher training, and they didn't teach him about lesson plans about planning. Can I volunteer in your teacher training program? So then I did that, and I have some parties and the American ambassador came to my parties and he said to me, Susan, you should join the Foreign Service.\n\nI said, well, I'm 40 and you know, I don't want to be a junior officer. He said, no, there's a program for mid-level. Just apply. So I applied and I got a letter back that said, you know, you've been teaching all your life, just keep teaching. And then one day he saw me and said, so how'd it go? And I said, they said thanks, but no thanks. He said, give me the letter. Then I got a new letter. Report to Washington for the Foreign Service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When a career ambassador says you should take this person, they take the person. And then so I do my training. And he somehow now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were under university assignment in Liberia. How long were you? You were there the whole two years, right? Or you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.641475253434989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyway then I went to Liberia and it was a university assignment and I was assigned to just freshman English. It was like I was back in middle school again, so that was kind of the level. And I liked it, but it was kind of like, oh, that's only three hours a day. I got a whole rest of the day. So then I looked into how they did teacher training, and they didn't teach him about lesson plans about planning. Can I volunteer in your teacher training program? So then I did that, and I have some parties and the American ambassador came to my parties and he said to me, Susan, you should join the Foreign Service.\n\nI said, well, I'm 40 and you know, I don't want to be a junior officer. He said, no, there's a program for mid-level. Just apply. So I applied and I got a letter back that said, you know, you've been teaching all your life, just keep teaching. And then one day he saw me and said, so how'd it go? And I said, they said thanks, but no thanks. He said, give me the letter. Then I got a new letter. Report to Washington for the Foreign Service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When a career ambassador says you should take this person, they take the person. And then so I do my training. And he somehow now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were under university assignment in Liberia. How long were you? You were there the whole two years, right? Or you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I did the whole two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after that then you applied for Foreign Service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.977129942512332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I did the whole two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after that then you applied for Foreign Service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was one of those parties. The I'm, you know, I'm leaving soon parties. And then the ambassador made the suggestion and got me assigned to the Foreign Service. And so I did that for twenty years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired as Foreign Service officer. I get a pension as a Foreign Service officer. And they counted my Peace Corps years for federal assignment and computing my pension. So all that is good. So that Social Security and I'm a happy camper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I would love to know more about Foreign Service, but I mean, I guess just briefly, because this is supposed to be about Peace Corps, right? But how did your experience in the Peace Corps kind of help you in the Foreign Service? And where all did you go, just very briefly, where did you go in Foreign Service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.530144380569258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think it was one of those parties. The I'm, you know, I'm leaving soon parties. And then the ambassador made the suggestion and got me assigned to the Foreign Service. And so I did that for twenty years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I retired as Foreign Service officer. I get a pension as a Foreign Service officer. And they counted my Peace Corps years for federal assignment and computing my pension. So all that is good. So that Social Security and I'm a happy camper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I would love to know more about Foreign Service, but I mean, I guess just briefly, because this is supposed to be about Peace Corps, right? But how did your experience in the Peace Corps kind of help you in the Foreign Service? And where all did you go, just very briefly, where did you go in Foreign Service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. I'm trying to figure out. Well, this is why the ambassador suggested I could join because I was so much into the community and dealing with locals and socializing with locals. I thought, you know, that's what we want in Foreign Service. We don't want the officers who are apart. So that's, my Peace Corps experience definitely. I wouldn't have been in the Foreign Service without it. And then I went again. I did teaching in San Francisco in 2003. When I retired from the Foreign Service, I moved to Albuquerque, and then in 2009-'10, I decided, well, I wanted to go to Peace Corps again, so that's how I ended up in Swaziland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, what made you want to join the Peace Corps again? Had you already retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.16117113331696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teacher training. So that's what I did. I would show up and I was talking about a particular technique that I used. It was designed for kids who were going to have learning problems, maybe. But Slingerland method, multisensory. Yes. See it, say it, do it. And it worked really well. And teachers really liked it because their classrooms had all kids with all kinds of levels of skills, abilities, disabilities. And this kind of got everyone involved, even kids who maybe really couldn't properly hold a pencil because that's the part of their disabilities. But yeah, they liked it, and they would provide the food for the workshop. And so I just began doing that and Peace Corps was fine with it, they knew what I was doing. They just said, you know, you're in Swaziland, don't go into South Africa, you know, stuff like this, without permission. You have to get permission from South Africa from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were very supportive and they just wanted me to tell them what I was doing because very seldom did they ever come out. On any of my Peace Corps assignments, very seldom did Peace Corps staff actually come to site to see what I was doing. Or if they did, they kind of were more seeing how or where I was living, how I was living, and I would say, let's go, let me show you this project. And there was never time. They were usually busy just hitting a lot of sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, your main assignment there was just teaching the trainers, right? Teacher training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. And then you said you hardly had, I mean, you didn't really have training in-country in Swaziland or Liberia, right? Because you had done Peace Corps before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5124123703521772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they were very supportive and they just wanted me to tell them what I was doing because very seldom did they ever come out. On any of my Peace Corps assignments, very seldom did Peace Corps staff actually come to site to see what I was doing. Or if they did, they kind of were more seeing how or where I was living, how I was living, and I would say, let's go, let me show you this project. And there was never time. They were usually busy just hitting a lot of sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, your main assignment there was just teaching the trainers, right? Teacher training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. And then you said you hardly had, I mean, you didn't really have training in-country in Swaziland or Liberia, right? Because you had done Peace Corps before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. It was just a two day kind of orientation with Peace Corps staff in the country to tell me about basic things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're not, you weren't Response? You were a true Peace Corps volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.902680411502419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teacher training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. And then you said you hardly had, I mean, you didn't really have training in-country in Swaziland or Liberia, right? Because you had done Peace Corps before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. It was just a two day kind of orientation with Peace Corps staff in the country to tell me about basic things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're not, you weren't Response? You were a true Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Swaziland might have been, what's it called, Peace Corps Response, but it still was expected to be a long assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was supposed to be two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.336311568336021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. It was just a two day kind of orientation with Peace Corps staff in the country to tell me about basic things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're not, you weren't Response? You were a true Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Swaziland might have been, what's it called, Peace Corps Response, but it still was expected to be a long assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was supposed to be two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were long assignments. Um. I think what they think, once you've been a Peace Corps volunteer, you know the routine, we'll just need to orient you to the country and to the norms. And you do your usual, introduce yourself to the mayor, the police, all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that sticks out for you from any of your, like from the countries you went to? Like if you were to describe Chile, how would you just describe it, Liberia, Swaziland? The country and then the people there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.818123964817802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. Swaziland might have been, what's it called, Peace Corps Response, but it still was expected to be a long assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was supposed to be two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were long assignments. Um. I think what they think, once you've been a Peace Corps volunteer, you know the routine, we'll just need to orient you to the country and to the norms. And you do your usual, introduce yourself to the mayor, the police, all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that sticks out for you from any of your, like from the countries you went to? Like if you were to describe Chile, how would you just describe it, Liberia, Swaziland? The country and then the people there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, in all the places in the people were receptive. You know, they loved having whatever help you had to offer, especially if it was, for them, was free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yeah, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.353471072019779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They all were long assignments. Um. I think what they think, once you've been a Peace Corps volunteer, you know the routine, we'll just need to orient you to the country and to the norms. And you do your usual, introduce yourself to the mayor, the police, all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that sticks out for you from any of your, like from the countries you went to? Like if you were to describe Chile, how would you just describe it, Liberia, Swaziland? The country and then the people there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, in all the places in the people were receptive. You know, they loved having whatever help you had to offer, especially if it was, for them, was free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'd say the less welcoming. My colleagues might have been at the university level in Liberia because there I was assigned and I didn't work up through their system. I was just assigned so that the department head, for example, he didn't have any choice about selecting me or putting me in. So in that system, it was a little more hierarchical and, you know, but um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about the country itself or the country? I mean, I've never I've never been to any of these three countries. I mean, for someone who's never been to these countries, how would you describe them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.837190080021977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, in all the places in the people were receptive. You know, they loved having whatever help you had to offer, especially if it was, for them, was free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'd say the less welcoming. My colleagues might have been at the university level in Liberia because there I was assigned and I didn't work up through their system. I was just assigned so that the department head, for example, he didn't have any choice about selecting me or putting me in. So in that system, it was a little more hierarchical and, you know, but um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what about the country itself or the country? I mean, I've never I've never been to any of these three countries. I mean, for someone who's never been to these countries, how would you describe them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with Chile, like, I mean, yeah, here's this young 22 year old cute little thing until they fatten me up. Then I wasn't so little. But they just all wanted me to have a wonderful time and appreciate their country and help me in any way possible. And they did. And then my second in Liberia, that was a whole different thing. I was assigned to a university, a whole different way of doing things. And they thought I was maybe a little bit too much of an eager beaver to want to. I was in theory being paid for three courses and one student counseling session. And there I was willing to do a couple more sessions. It was kind of, it probably was not the norm, you know, I was giving away, but I was free. But they were OK. And there was one other American woman whose husband was working and she was teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, yeah, were there any other volunteers in Liberia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.971839604965404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, with Chile, like, I mean, yeah, here's this young 22 year old cute little thing until they fatten me up. Then I wasn't so little. But they just all wanted me to have a wonderful time and appreciate their country and help me in any way possible. And they did. And then my second in Liberia, that was a whole different thing. I was assigned to a university, a whole different way of doing things. And they thought I was maybe a little bit too much of an eager beaver to want to. I was in theory being paid for three courses and one student counseling session. And there I was willing to do a couple more sessions. It was kind of, it probably was not the norm, you know, I was giving away, but I was free. But they were OK. And there was one other American woman whose husband was working and she was teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, yeah, were there any other volunteers in Liberia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So each time I went, except for being assigned with Kathy the first time, I was the only one and I was so glad I didn't get assigned, you know, now they go out in groups. They might be assigned to a group and they live in a school housing and they're still together, possibly in education. I don't know why I'm thinking. So I definitely liked being a volunteer on my own. And for me, it worked out better to be where no volunteer had gone before. There were no expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that always the case, Chile, Liberia, and Swaziland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Hadn't had a Peace Corps volunteer before, and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no, go ahead, continue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.635377338850449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So each time I went, except for being assigned with Kathy the first time, I was the only one and I was so glad I didn't get assigned, you know, now they go out in groups. They might be assigned to a group and they live in a school housing and they're still together, possibly in education. I don't know why I'm thinking. So I definitely liked being a volunteer on my own. And for me, it worked out better to be where no volunteer had gone before. There were no expectations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that always the case, Chile, Liberia, and Swaziland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Hadn't had a Peace Corps volunteer before, and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no, go ahead, continue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that that was good because I didn't have to live up to someone else's expectations. And likewise, I don't know how they felt, people who might have gone in after I was there, but I don't think there was another Peace Corps volunteer in my community in Chile, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how would you describe Swaziland? I mean, what was it like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.37264148761161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Hadn't had a Peace Corps volunteer before, and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no, go ahead, continue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that that was good because I didn't have to live up to someone else's expectations. And likewise, I don't know how they felt, people who might have gone in after I was there, but I don't think there was another Peace Corps volunteer in my community in Chile, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how would you describe Swaziland? I mean, what was it like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Swaziland is also a very delightful country, but country with the highest rate of HIV Aids in the world. And I found that lifestyle tended to be promiscuous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, more so than in the other countries you went to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0807127640129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that that was good because I didn't have to live up to someone else's expectations. And likewise, I don't know how they felt, people who might have gone in after I was there, but I don't think there was another Peace Corps volunteer in my community in Chile, for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how would you describe Swaziland? I mean, what was it like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Swaziland is also a very delightful country, but country with the highest rate of HIV Aids in the world. And I found that lifestyle tended to be promiscuous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, more so than in the other countries you went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I think at the time. That changed so much, you know, from the mores when I was in the mid-sixties to being 2009-'10, where the internet's there and there's all these things available. And it was a country that had the highest rate of HIV, and I found the way some interaction was with male and females, it seemed people weren't taking it seriously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.8674586266810005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Swaziland is also a very delightful country, but country with the highest rate of HIV Aids in the world. And I found that lifestyle tended to be promiscuous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, more so than in the other countries you went to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, I think at the time. That changed so much, you know, from the mores when I was in the mid-sixties to being 2009-'10, where the internet's there and there's all these things available. And it was a country that had the highest rate of HIV, and I found the way some interaction was with male and females, it seemed people weren't taking it seriously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was just a lot of attempts of seduction and stuff, you know, without."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK. So I mean, you kind of said people were somewhat promiscuous you thought."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8882769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so it was my not understanding the situation until it worked against me because I didn't approach it correctly. But otherwise. And the special director was very supportive. But when that kind of happened, she kind of said, well, she couldn't get around that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I mean, is there anything else you want to share about your time in any of these three countries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In all three it was, I thought it was fun and the interaction and I didn't find any people trying to undermine me really. Found them supportive. There was the one guy and the political differences who wanted to be the chair of the community government group. And nobody wanted him and he didn't get it. So then he was mad. But that was pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did he do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't really do anything. He just didn't support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, I mean, how do you think Peace Corps has changed your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.653641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In all three it was, I thought it was fun and the interaction and I didn't find any people trying to undermine me really. Found them supportive. There was the one guy and the political differences who wanted to be the chair of the community government group. And nobody wanted him and he didn't get it. So then he was mad. But that was pretty much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did he do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't really do anything. He just didn't support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, I mean, how do you think Peace Corps has changed your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My life?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What impact has it had on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.94849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't really do anything. He just didn't support."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, I mean, how do you think Peace Corps has changed your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My life?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What impact has it had on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, hmm. I volunteer for all sorts of stuff, you know, continue volunteering. And I do film festivals. I loved showing films in the Peace Corps. And you know, people are so responsive to films. So my first film festival was It's All About Water in 2012. And with, of course, it's not just films, it's speakers and influential people to try to educate the public about this is the problem you've seen, now how can you address it? You know, how in your personal life might you change? And then we had one April, this past April, and that's about fracking. Climate disruption. And then they have one coming up in September 6-7. Also climate disruption."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you show these films?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My life?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. What impact has it had on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, hmm. I volunteer for all sorts of stuff, you know, continue volunteering. And I do film festivals. I loved showing films in the Peace Corps. And you know, people are so responsive to films. So my first film festival was It's All About Water in 2012. And with, of course, it's not just films, it's speakers and influential people to try to educate the public about this is the problem you've seen, now how can you address it? You know, how in your personal life might you change? And then we had one April, this past April, and that's about fracking. Climate disruption. And then they have one coming up in September 6-7. Also climate disruption."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you show these films?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I buy them. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But do you show, are you involved in a. This is kind of off topic. But I mean, do you, I mean, do you show them with some kind of organization? Are there big groups of people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I buy them. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But do you show, are you involved in a. This is kind of off topic. But I mean, do you, I mean, do you show them with some kind of organization? Are there big groups of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I get. No one organization is organizing it. I'm organizing it and then they may support it. Like the two, the last one in April, I did. The city donated the location, so no charge for that site. And then, you know, I made contracts for food and some other stuff. And when it came down to it, NGOs, environmental groups, they all pitched in enough money to pay for the food and whatever was involved. This next one, then, is going to be about sixteen hundred dollars because I wanted a place with classrooms so we could have breakout sessions. Because one of the things last time we talked about, and we never had an ability to do it, is to get climate change into the school curriculum. So we're going to have breakout sessions. That's one issue. The other one is sportsmen and how they're involved in protecting the environment, because one of our senators is a well-known hunter but he's also a conservationist. And so we've got two of our breakout sessions lined up already, and I've got four venues lined up, so we'll focus on a couple more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So I think, all right. So you just kind of individually still stay active in the community and still have your same interests that you had way back in the day, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And because of Peace Corps and being successful just going out and doing it, I carry that with me now. I get an idea. I can do it. I did it in Peace Corps. I can do it here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then any advice you would have or anything you would want to share with anyone thinking about joining the Peace Corps or with an interest in Peace Corps, just learning more about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And because of Peace Corps and being successful just going out and doing it, I carry that with me now. I get an idea. I can do it. I did it in Peace Corps. I can do it here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then any advice you would have or anything you would want to share with anyone thinking about joining the Peace Corps or with an interest in Peace Corps, just learning more about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would encourage them to do so. And now that you're training is in country, that should let them know if they're going to be up to that culture. And the language and serving. So I think that's a great improvement that communities in country. I would say go for it. I think your older volunteers end up being more productive. Couples do very well also because they have that internal support. So but I mean, it's just a matter of maturity now. I was, when I felt I was very successful, I was 22, 23, so I think it's just a matter of how you approach it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how do you say, I mean, you said, you know, couples do well because of that internal support? What about older volunteers? Why do they do better?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have the world experience. They have more things that have worked that they can offer. You know, more grounded suggestions, but sometimes not grounded suggestions are great. Like, let's have summer camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you made it work. OK. I don't know. I guess we can end it on that note. Is there anything, anything else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would encourage them to do so. And now that you're training is in country, that should let them know if they're going to be up to that culture. And the language and serving. So I think that's a great improvement that communities in country. I would say go for it. I think your older volunteers end up being more productive. Couples do very well also because they have that internal support. So but I mean, it's just a matter of maturity now. I was, when I felt I was very successful, I was 22, 23, so I think it's just a matter of how you approach it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But how do you say, I mean, you said, you know, couples do well because of that internal support? What about older volunteers? Why do they do better?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have the world experience. They have more things that have worked that they can offer. You know, more grounded suggestions, but sometimes not grounded suggestions are great. Like, let's have summer camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you made it work. OK. I don't know. I guess we can end it on that note. Is there anything, anything else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just I'm looking for my next assignment, Peace Corps. Oh, I don't want a two year, I want a shorter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, Peace Corps Response."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00104:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have the world experience. They have more things that have worked that they can offer. You know, more grounded suggestions, but sometimes not grounded suggestions are great. Like, let's have summer camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you made it work. OK. I don't know. I guess we can end it on that note. Is there anything, anything else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just I'm looking for my next assignment, Peace Corps. Oh, I don't want a two year, I want a shorter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, Peace Corps Response."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, Response."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Yeah, so thank you very much. So three. Oh man, I wanted to end this really quickly, but so you've already served in three countries and looking for a fourth, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.5960077996635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Happy to participate…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I'd like to start. If you could tell us about your background, where you grew up, and what kind of interest you may have had that led you into the NASA career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I grew up on a remote cattle ranch on the Wyoming-Montana border. It was so remote that when I started school I had to board out from the first grade through high school. So I kind of got used to being self-sufficient, I guess you might say, or independent.\\n\\n When I was little, I had an interest in science, and I always wanted my dad to buy me a really good microscope, you know, and all that sort of thing. In high school I got really interested in physics, and that's what I ended up majoring in in college. I don't know what else there is to say, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. Before you went to college, you spent some time in the Army, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it was between my freshman and sophomore years. I was in the National Guard. I had one month to serve for my three-year term of service in the National Guard when [Harry S.] Truman, President Truman, that is, activated or extended everybody's enlistment, whether it was National Guard Reserve, regular Army, or whatever, by one year. So I ended up spending thirteen months in the Army, about eight or nine of those in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what type of work did you do for the Army? Anything related to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.55111977740388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I grew up on a remote cattle ranch on the Wyoming-Montana border. It was so remote that when I started school I had to board out from the first grade through high school. So I kind of got used to being self-sufficient, I guess you might say, or independent.\\n\\n When I was little, I had an interest in science, and I always wanted my dad to buy me a really good microscope, you know, and all that sort of thing. In high school I got really interested in physics, and that's what I ended up majoring in in college. I don't know what else there is to say, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. Before you went to college, you spent some time in the Army, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it was between my freshman and sophomore years. I was in the National Guard. I had one month to serve for my three-year term of service in the National Guard when [Harry S.] Truman, President Truman, that is, activated or extended everybody's enlistment, whether it was National Guard Reserve, regular Army, or whatever, by one year. So I ended up spending thirteen months in the Army, about eight or nine of those in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what type of work did you do for the Army? Anything related to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a supply corporal and a truck driver. [Laughter] Nothing related to anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you obviously had a chance to go back to school and work on your physics degree?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 43.94568864155987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, it was between my freshman and sophomore years. I was in the National Guard. I had one month to serve for my three-year term of service in the National Guard when [Harry S.] Truman, President Truman, that is, activated or extended everybody's enlistment, whether it was National Guard Reserve, regular Army, or whatever, by one year. So I ended up spending thirteen months in the Army, about eight or nine of those in Korea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what type of work did you do for the Army? Anything related to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a supply corporal and a truck driver. [Laughter] Nothing related to anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you obviously had a chance to go back to school and work on your physics degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular interest there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 47.71743182395541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a supply corporal and a truck driver. [Laughter] Nothing related to anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you obviously had a chance to go back to school and work on your physics degree?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular interest there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, that worked out pretty good, because my G.I. Bill carried me right to my bachelor's degree and that was it. It would have run out like three days after I got my bachelor's degree.\\n\\n What was your next question? I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just asking you about your specific interest in physics, if you had any."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 39.68603535995045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular interest there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, that worked out pretty good, because my G.I. Bill carried me right to my bachelor's degree and that was it. It would have run out like three days after I got my bachelor's degree.\\n\\n What was your next question? I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just asking you about your specific interest in physics, if you had any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. You know, at the baccalaureate level you don't really have a chance to specialize or anything. I was just kind of interested in everything.\\n\\n When I graduated, I went back to the ranch for a year, and I decided that being a 25 percent partner in a family-owned ranch wasn't my cup of tea, because I was the junior partner and took orders from everybody else. So I decided I'd just strike out on my own.\\n\\n I went back to the University of Wyoming [Laramie, Wyoming] for one semester of graduate work. I got a summer job in San Diego [California] with Convair [Division of General Dynamics]. The reason we took that was because my wife's folks, my mother-in-law and father-in-law, were living in San Diego at the time, so we had free board and room. It was so much fun to make money for a change, that I just never went back to school. I stayed with Convair, which very quickly became General Dynamics Astronautics. I was on the Atlas program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your first job with Convair?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 44.418747040455465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I managed to survive Houston for ten months. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of projects were you working on when you first came down? What specific areas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Developing the flight test program for the Apollo spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That involved—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, that involved just a whole range of things, you know. How many flights do we need? What's the best way to test them? What kind of instrumentation should we use? When do we need to start using Saturn Vs as opposed to Saturn Is or -IBs or whatever? How many times do we need to test an Earth orbit before we do a lunar orbit test? It's just all that kind of stuff. Everybody had different ideas about it.\\n\\n I tended to be less conservative than most and would do fewer tests than a lot would. I didn't stay in that job but less than a year, but ultimately it came out about the number of flights that I thought it should take. Some people were saying we ought to fly two or three or four times that many flights just to get confidence. Well, hell, once the thing's working, go to the Moon with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me follow up with George [E.] Mueller and the all-up testing. How did you feel about that, where they would test the Saturn V with all functional components, rather than doing it stage by stage?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 48.243052267172736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Developing the flight test program for the Apollo spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That involved—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, that involved just a whole range of things, you know. How many flights do we need? What's the best way to test them? What kind of instrumentation should we use? When do we need to start using Saturn Vs as opposed to Saturn Is or -IBs or whatever? How many times do we need to test an Earth orbit before we do a lunar orbit test? It's just all that kind of stuff. Everybody had different ideas about it.\\n\\n I tended to be less conservative than most and would do fewer tests than a lot would. I didn't stay in that job but less than a year, but ultimately it came out about the number of flights that I thought it should take. Some people were saying we ought to fly two or three or four times that many flights just to get confidence. Well, hell, once the thing's working, go to the Moon with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me follow up with George [E.] Mueller and the all-up testing. How did you feel about that, where they would test the Saturn V with all functional components, rather than doing it stage by stage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that was great. I think von Braun was in favor of that, too. Was it Mueller that kind of invented that philosophy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is usually given credit for that, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 52.492280296858596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, boy, that involved just a whole range of things, you know. How many flights do we need? What's the best way to test them? What kind of instrumentation should we use? When do we need to start using Saturn Vs as opposed to Saturn Is or -IBs or whatever? How many times do we need to test an Earth orbit before we do a lunar orbit test? It's just all that kind of stuff. Everybody had different ideas about it.\\n\\n I tended to be less conservative than most and would do fewer tests than a lot would. I didn't stay in that job but less than a year, but ultimately it came out about the number of flights that I thought it should take. Some people were saying we ought to fly two or three or four times that many flights just to get confidence. Well, hell, once the thing's working, go to the Moon with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me follow up with George [E.] Mueller and the all-up testing. How did you feel about that, where they would test the Saturn V with all functional components, rather than doing it stage by stage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that was great. I think von Braun was in favor of that, too. Was it Mueller that kind of invented that philosophy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is usually given credit for that, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he? Okay. I wasn't really aware of that. I kind of thought that was von Braun's own personal idea, but it might have been Mueller sticking it down von Braun's throat. I don't know. But, yes, I always believed when you test something, test it in as full a configuration as you possibly can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's certainly a lot of payoff that you can get through that in terms of time and saving dollars, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 57.213644774287324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that was great. I think von Braun was in favor of that, too. Was it Mueller that kind of invented that philosophy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is usually given credit for that, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is he? Okay. I wasn't really aware of that. I kind of thought that was von Braun's own personal idea, but it might have been Mueller sticking it down von Braun's throat. I don't know. But, yes, I always believed when you test something, test it in as full a configuration as you possibly can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's certainly a lot of payoff that you can get through that in terms of time and saving dollars, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Apollo had a very short flight test program. It was extremely short."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After ten months, you moved out to this area. How did that opportunity come about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 41.52066169420566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was a pretty doggone successful propulsion system. It was pretty benign. It didn't create us a lot of problems, unlike the lunar ascent system which that engine went through a couple of different—they took it away from one contractor and gave it to another a time or two before they finally found somebody that they felt like they wanted to leave the contract with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Thibodaux was relating some of the problems they were having with the injector system on the ascent stage."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They really had performance problems. They weren't getting the performance out of it that they needed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was showing up on your test stands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was also showing up at the manufacturer's test facilities as well. Guy was intimately involved with all of that sort of thing, much more so than I was, because at that point I was more LM facilities related and I wasn't paying all that much attention to SPS testing. But that was Guy's responsibility. He had to make sure that they had a proper propulsion system when the time came to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were in charge of the LM facilities, how did you go about deciding what you needed for that and setting it up for the system?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.57598572233916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they learned from experience. That wasn't the only kind of a run-in like I had with them. When I was over in the 400 Area on the LM program, two or three times they did some kind of facility maintenance task without coordinating with me or with Grumman people or whoever, you know, to know what our schedule was, and it really screwed things up. They'd get their hands slapped severely every time. Finally, they pretty well learned.\\n\\n The O&M contractors we had after Zia weren't quite as belligerent. They had been here in other roles anyway, so as time progressed, the relationships between NASA and the contractors got better and better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of the issues with the prime contractors show up at White Sands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With North American or Grumman, did you have any big issues with the work you were doing with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really that I can remember. That LM ascent engine was always a problem, but Thibodaux was mainly taking care of that at the contractor level. I can't even remember whether we fired one of those. Who was it that was building that engine? It was Bell, wasn't it, that started out on that engine and was having so much trouble with it? I don't remember whether we fired a Bell version here or not. I think we did, but I just can't remember for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the contractors then satisfied with the test regimen you were putting their engines through?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.6399841359324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With North American or Grumman, did you have any big issues with the work you were doing with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really that I can remember. That LM ascent engine was always a problem, but Thibodaux was mainly taking care of that at the contractor level. I can't even remember whether we fired one of those. Who was it that was building that engine? It was Bell, wasn't it, that started out on that engine and was having so much trouble with it? I don't remember whether we fired a Bell version here or not. I think we did, but I just can't remember for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the contractors then satisfied with the test regimen you were putting their engines through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, because they were intimately involved in coming up with that test regimen. In fact, they were responsible for coming up with that test regimen subject to our approval and Thibodaux and his people's approval. Thibodaux's people looked at it from, \"Are we learning what we needed to learn about the propulsion system?\" We looked at it more from the point of view \"Is it compatible with the facility and our capabilities and all that sort of thing?\" And it worked pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of contractor relations, the Apollo 1 fire had some repercussions. Did the fire cause any changes out of White Sands?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 45.15553792881378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really that I can remember. That LM ascent engine was always a problem, but Thibodaux was mainly taking care of that at the contractor level. I can't even remember whether we fired one of those. Who was it that was building that engine? It was Bell, wasn't it, that started out on that engine and was having so much trouble with it? I don't remember whether we fired a Bell version here or not. I think we did, but I just can't remember for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the contractors then satisfied with the test regimen you were putting their engines through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, because they were intimately involved in coming up with that test regimen. In fact, they were responsible for coming up with that test regimen subject to our approval and Thibodaux and his people's approval. Thibodaux's people looked at it from, \"Are we learning what we needed to learn about the propulsion system?\" We looked at it more from the point of view \"Is it compatible with the facility and our capabilities and all that sort of thing?\" And it worked pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of contractor relations, the Apollo 1 fire had some repercussions. Did the fire cause any changes out of White Sands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure did. It just invented our materials test program out here. It gave it a real quick boost. We had just kind of dabbled a little, the laboratory people, had just dabbled a little bit in testing certain kinds of materials, maybe for reasons of their own, I don't remember whether they were involved with any of the people at JSC in doing this or not, but, boy, that sure gave it a kick in the rear, I'll tell you, when they had all that problem with flammable materials in the cabin and that sort of thing. We got into a materials test program that ultimately we became the materials test experts for the agency. Marshall would never admit that, but we were anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that ended up at White Sands? Was there a logical reason behind that, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 56.71541554021094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure that there were logical reasons behind a lot of things that happened at NASA. But we had a good test facility. We had a good laboratory. It was being under-utilized. We had good support contractors that were willing to work for a dollar, work for their pay instead of loafing and all that kind of thing. I think it just—we didn't have any unions at that time, which kind of simplified matters management-wise and productivity-wise.\\n\\n It was just something, I think it just kind of grew like Topsy. We started doing this little thing and this little thing and that little thing, and pretty soon we had a whole mountain of things we were doing in terms of materials testing. It became our mainstay, along with propulsion testing. The two were just about equally important by the time we got to the Shuttle program. We did most of the materials testing with the Shuttle program, at least for everything that we were responsible, that JSC was responsible for, which was everything except for the main engines, just about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to also ask you about some of the people you worked with on the Apollo program. Who do you think were some of the key individuals that really made a contribution?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the Apollo program?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George [M.] Low, first and foremost. Of course, there were thousands of people that made important contributions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, ones that perhaps you had a chance to work with on a close level."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 57.4615728224566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the Apollo program?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George [M.] Low, first and foremost. Of course, there were thousands of people that made important contributions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, ones that perhaps you had a chance to work with on a close level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think George Low was probably the key guy in the Apollo program. He took over as the ASPO manager right after the fire, and he really got the program back on its feet again.\\n\\n But Max [Maxime A.] Faget, golly sakes, he had an awful lot to do with it Apollo. In fact, I think it was Faget who invented, and ultimately got approved, the lunar orbit rendezvous concept.\\n\\n Joe [Joseph F.] Shea was important. It was kind of on his shift that the fire happened. There was just so many people. All the flight test people. Chris Kraft, another very, very important element. Then, you know, give me a phone book with all their names in it and I can— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Of course, there were many, many people that were involved in and made just such great contributions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 61.623969802729555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George [M.] Low, first and foremost. Of course, there were thousands of people that made important contributions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, ones that perhaps you had a chance to work with on a close level."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think George Low was probably the key guy in the Apollo program. He took over as the ASPO manager right after the fire, and he really got the program back on its feet again.\\n\\n But Max [Maxime A.] Faget, golly sakes, he had an awful lot to do with it Apollo. In fact, I think it was Faget who invented, and ultimately got approved, the lunar orbit rendezvous concept.\\n\\n Joe [Joseph F.] Shea was important. It was kind of on his shift that the fire happened. There was just so many people. All the flight test people. Chris Kraft, another very, very important element. Then, you know, give me a phone book with all their names in it and I can— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Of course, there were many, many people that were involved in and made just such great contributions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris was a super guy. Too bad he couldn't stay as the JSC director forever. He was sure the best one they ever had. And don't tell Aaron Cohen I said that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll try not to mention it to him. Speaking of JSC, JSC was White Sands' parent organization, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 68.47107755858839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think George Low was probably the key guy in the Apollo program. He took over as the ASPO manager right after the fire, and he really got the program back on its feet again.\\n\\n But Max [Maxime A.] Faget, golly sakes, he had an awful lot to do with it Apollo. In fact, I think it was Faget who invented, and ultimately got approved, the lunar orbit rendezvous concept.\\n\\n Joe [Joseph F.] Shea was important. It was kind of on his shift that the fire happened. There was just so many people. All the flight test people. Chris Kraft, another very, very important element. Then, you know, give me a phone book with all their names in it and I can— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Of course, there were many, many people that were involved in and made just such great contributions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris was a super guy. Too bad he couldn't stay as the JSC director forever. He was sure the best one they ever had. And don't tell Aaron Cohen I said that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll try not to mention it to him. Speaking of JSC, JSC was White Sands' parent organization, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that relationship work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 68.30119728732043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chris was a super guy. Too bad he couldn't stay as the JSC director forever. He was sure the best one they ever had. And don't tell Aaron Cohen I said that. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll try not to mention it to him. Speaking of JSC, JSC was White Sands' parent organization, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that relationship work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, for a long time that was kind of muddied water. We never really had a parent organization in Houston. We never really had stature on the picture pages of the phone book and that kind of thing. Finally, Chris kind of started it, and he was the guy who was probably more responsible for me getting the job as base manager out here than anybody else. Actually, it was Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin that made the selection, because Chris had gone by that time. But Chris had filled Gerry's ear, I think, pretty good, because there were some pretty stiff competition for that job. A couple guys from the Cape and another guy from out here, Dave [David L.] Pippen.\\n\\n But I guess probably because of Chris's intervention, it was probably never a whole lot of question that I would be selected. Griffin was very happy with the selection. Gerry changed the management structure, and he had—what'd they call them? Vice-presidents? They were like super directors or whatever, but there were three of them. Bill [William R.] Kelly was one, he was in charge of admin, all of the administration functions and a lot of other things as well. White Sands was one of the other things. So I reported to Bill, the best boss I ever worked for, really a good guy. We really got along good together, and he helped me get White Sands established in the JSC hierarchy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting back to Apollo for a few minutes, did you follow the flights as they were going, I mean from a professional standpoint?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 41.338324139923174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite secure. We were well involved in OMS and RCS testing at that point, and it had a future. So by that point in time, we were over the hurdle of being shut down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a little bit before about how you became manager about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About Chris?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out out here, well, just watching the facility construction for Henry Van Goey. Then I was responsible for overseeing the initial test programs on the boilerplate test article. By the time Spacecraft 1 came along, I had another guy that I had assigned to Spacecraft 1, and didn't have to spend a lot of time with it. But I was kind of what they called the chief operations director, and I stayed that way until the summer of '68.\\n\\n Marty Raines was leaving. He knew he was going to be leaving. Bill Gantz was going to be made the site manager. So they made Bill the assistant site manager for a period of time so he would get familiar with what Marty was doing before Marty left. So they needed somebody to be in charge of the propulsion test organization, and they gave the job to me. I got my 15 out of it. Boy, I stayed a 15 forever, it seemed like to me, from '68 to 1982.\\n\\n What was the question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about how you became the site manager."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 36.56961460131561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, involved in all aspects of a lot of things associated with Shuttle, still doing OMS and RCS work, heavily involved in materials. Probably had just as much manpower in materials testing as we did in propulsion by that stage. Other kinds of systems testing that, you know, a special problem would arise, like the Viking thing that I mentioned to you, but not that one, because that one was all gone by that time. Any special problems like that, we were always prepared to jump to and tackle anything, reassign people as necessary to get any particular request done as quickly as possible, by whenever they needed it. If it took working twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, that's what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the Shuttle landing facility also fall under your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us a little bit about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Northrup Strip, now known as White Sands Space Harbor. I liked Northrup Strip better. Al [Alexander S.] Paczynski worked for me out here, and he was kind of responsible for that. He worked pretty close with flight crew people. I think he went down there and gave a slide presentation or something, if I remember correctly, to some of the people, flight crew operations. I don't know whether it was the astronaut office was specifically, but—who was the flight crew director then? Oh, boy. That goes back a long ways. Warren [J.] North, probably. Or possibly the seventh Apollo astronaut. What's his name?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Donald K.] Deke Slayton?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 41.15710263084625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Well, I'd better back off of that. Yes, I guess we did. We had a little propulsion module. The attitude and reboost systems on the original Space Station configuration, and that's probably the '84 configuration you're talking about, we did some test work on that, in Test Stand 302. I don't know why I'm so vague on that, but I just don't remember much about what went on there. I think it was a very short-lived program, for one thing, because designs were changing all the time and that sort of thing. That was supplied by Rockwell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact did the Challenger accident have on White Sands? Was it similar to after the Apollo 1 fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It concentrated our materials testing on booster seals and seal materials and things like that. We did quite a bit of work associated with that, but it was all materials. It was just little bits here and pieces of that kind of stuff that they needed done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done that kind of work on the seals before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'd never seen the seal material before then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then were you beginning to see it just as part of the investigation or this was after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.619002923162505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It concentrated our materials testing on booster seals and seal materials and things like that. We did quite a bit of work associated with that, but it was all materials. It was just little bits here and pieces of that kind of stuff that they needed done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you done that kind of work on the seals before that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'd never seen the seal material before then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then were you beginning to see it just as part of the investigation or this was after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of both. We sent people to the Cape as part of the investigating team as well, that assembled all the pieces of the Challenger in that one hangar and tried to get as much information out as they could. They were kind of constrained from talking about that even to me, so I never did learn a lot about what they contributed.\\n\\n One of them was Frank Benz [phonetic], who was the director of something or other in Houston. No, I think he was a division chief. Real capable guy. He was head of the laboratories for a while here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any other significant projects or areas that you worked in before you retired, that we haven't covered?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.853641320000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A lot of people have said, \"When I get reincarnated as a dog, I want to live with the Tilletts.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can see why.\\n\\n Looking back on your experience with the space program as a whole, what do you think your greatest contribution to it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a tough question. Boy, I think just being here and keeping things going in whatever area I was responsible for, and making sure that I did my best to not let something slip through the cracks. That's not very grandiose, but whatever my responsibility was at the time, I took it seriously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a similar vein, what do you think the most difficult moment was for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was sitting out here in the visitor area next to my office watching the TV when the Challenger went. I just couldn't believe it. But, you know, before anybody on TV said anything, you immediately know something's wrong. You know what you're looking for. I knew it probably within a second of when I saw the rocket motor blew, just from watching. That was pretty tough. I stuck around for about thirty minutes and I had visitors from JSC, and I just finally told them, you know, \"I'm done for the day. I'm going home.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was certainly a difficult time for everybody involved."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.3929348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a tough question. Boy, I think just being here and keeping things going in whatever area I was responsible for, and making sure that I did my best to not let something slip through the cracks. That's not very grandiose, but whatever my responsibility was at the time, I took it seriously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a similar vein, what do you think the most difficult moment was for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was sitting out here in the visitor area next to my office watching the TV when the Challenger went. I just couldn't believe it. But, you know, before anybody on TV said anything, you immediately know something's wrong. You know what you're looking for. I knew it probably within a second of when I saw the rocket motor blew, just from watching. That was pretty tough. I stuck around for about thirty minutes and I had visitors from JSC, and I just finally told them, you know, \"I'm done for the day. I'm going home.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was certainly a difficult time for everybody involved."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other people that you'd like to mention that we haven't already talked about, that you think really had a valuable contribution?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 12.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea at all. But you know, an interesting thing with that. There's always a class prophecy for the high school senior class. I was working at White Sands, New Mexico, in that class prophecy. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they were thinking of, that was shortly after the atomic bomb and all, they thought I'd probably be working in nuclear physics. Unfortunately, I quit school before I was far enough advanced in physics to be of any use in nuclear physics. But I thought that was kind of interesting that my prophecy came true, at least geographically, if not functionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is quite an amazing coincidence. I'd also like to ask Carol if she has any questions for you.\n\nI have one. Did you go back to a high school reunion and tell them that you were working at White Sands?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they were thinking of, that was shortly after the atomic bomb and all, they thought I'd probably be working in nuclear physics. Unfortunately, I quit school before I was far enough advanced in physics to be of any use in nuclear physics. But I thought that was kind of interesting that my prophecy came true, at least geographically, if not functionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is quite an amazing coincidence. I'd also like to ask Carol if she has any questions for you.\n\nI have one. Did you go back to a high school reunion and tell them that you were working at White Sands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They already knew it, because my sister-in-law's sister, I don't know what makes her to me, but, anyway, she was one of the class of '49 graduates along with me, and she made sure that everybody knew that that prophecy had come true.\\n\\n I didn't go to some of the earlier reunions. I went to the 30th and the 41st—you might ask why 41—and the 50th. The 50th was last summer. That was fun. The 41st, they had a reunion of all the classes, the graduating classes, from '38 to '51. That was interesting, because a lot of your friends tend to be a year older or a year younger or two years older or younger, and we got to see people that we would never ever been able to see any other way. That was sure a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there are any other areas that you'd like to talk about, those are all the questions I had."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00570:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they were thinking of, that was shortly after the atomic bomb and all, they thought I'd probably be working in nuclear physics. Unfortunately, I quit school before I was far enough advanced in physics to be of any use in nuclear physics. But I thought that was kind of interesting that my prophecy came true, at least geographically, if not functionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is quite an amazing coincidence. I'd also like to ask Carol if she has any questions for you.\n\nI have one. Did you go back to a high school reunion and tell them that you were working at White Sands?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They already knew it, because my sister-in-law's sister, I don't know what makes her to me, but, anyway, she was one of the class of '49 graduates along with me, and she made sure that everybody knew that that prophecy had come true.\\n\\n I didn't go to some of the earlier reunions. I went to the 30th and the 41st—you might ask why 41—and the 50th. The 50th was last summer. That was fun. The 41st, they had a reunion of all the classes, the graduating classes, from '38 to '51. That was interesting, because a lot of your friends tend to be a year older or a year younger or two years older or younger, and we got to see people that we would never ever been able to see any other way. That was sure a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there are any other areas that you'd like to talk about, those are all the questions I had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We'll probably get into, you know, if Grady and I can jog each other's memories tomorrow, why, we'll probably get into some more of these sidetracks, but that's about all I can think of right for the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, then I'd like to thank you for participating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.110002694343299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was in college. I was in college the year before. And when I was a sophomore in college, I took a test, the Peace Corps test, and was interested in joining then. I took the Peace Corps test and I said, I think I need to finish college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Hamline University in Saint Paul, Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your major or what were you studying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I majored in history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your intent? I mean, did you have a career goal at that point or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.962966289312714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I majored in history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your intent? I mean, did you have a career goal at that point or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had no career goal, actually. When I was, I didn't. The spring of my senior year, I did not have a job and I wasn't successful applying for jobs. And so the Peace Corps recruiters came and it just sounded like a good deal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent in my application and almost right away I got a telegram. I mean, I guess you don't send telegrams anymore, but I got a telegram. And it's saying I'd been accepted into, you know, Peace Corps in India, about less than a month after I applied. That was great. I knew what I was going to do for the next two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, let's go back. Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.292184765903015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had no career goal, actually. When I was, I didn't. The spring of my senior year, I did not have a job and I wasn't successful applying for jobs. And so the Peace Corps recruiters came and it just sounded like a good deal to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent in my application and almost right away I got a telegram. I mean, I guess you don't send telegrams anymore, but I got a telegram. And it's saying I'd been accepted into, you know, Peace Corps in India, about less than a month after I applied. That was great. I knew what I was going to do for the next two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, let's go back. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up on a farm in Wood, near Wood Lake, Minnesota. And I know I had that, some of the things, it actually prepared me for a lot in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And large family, small family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.769094184336682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sent in my application and almost right away I got a telegram. I mean, I guess you don't send telegrams anymore, but I got a telegram. And it's saying I'd been accepted into, you know, Peace Corps in India, about less than a month after I applied. That was great. I knew what I was going to do for the next two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, let's go back. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up on a farm in Wood, near Wood Lake, Minnesota. And I know I had that, some of the things, it actually prepared me for a lot in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And large family, small family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a large family. I have three sisters, three brothers and two sisters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go, where did you go to high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.076771315929646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up on a farm in Wood, near Wood Lake, Minnesota. And I know I had that, some of the things, it actually prepared me for a lot in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And large family, small family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a large family. I have three sisters, three brothers and two sisters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go, where did you go to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to one school for 12 years, Wood Lake Public, and I had no kindergarten, just that's where I went to school. And then I went to Hamline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your high school, did you do any volunteer work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.196412573255161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a large family. I have three sisters, three brothers and two sisters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go, where did you go to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to one school for 12 years, Wood Lake Public, and I had no kindergarten, just that's where I went to school. And then I went to Hamline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your high school, did you do any volunteer work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, I was, I was active in my NYF youth fellowship and I was active in 4-H. I actually got a 4-H Key Club."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.588163670685384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, I was, I was active in my NYF youth fellowship and I was active in 4-H. I actually got a 4-H Key Club."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in high school. Right. Which, Key Club is as high as you can go in 4-H."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, I helped publish the yearbook in high school. And also I was a yearbook editor in college too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school, were you able to do any travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.764626300761538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in high school. Right. Which, Key Club is as high as you can go in 4-H."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, I helped publish the yearbook in high school. And also I was a yearbook editor in college too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school, were you able to do any travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my, we were on the farm. My parents didn't travel much. When I was in sixth grade, my neighbor invited me to go with their family to the Black Hills and I decided to go. And my sixth grade teacher did not like it because I was ruining my perfect attendance at school. But I said yes, I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so that was it. But were you the first in your family to go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.943983087359923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, my, we were on the farm. My parents didn't travel much. When I was in sixth grade, my neighbor invited me to go with their family to the Black Hills and I decided to go. And my sixth grade teacher did not like it because I was ruining my perfect attendance at school. But I said yes, I'm going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so that was it. But were you the first in your family to go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, my, I have an older sister. She graduated from Macalester and I went to Hamline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents, my mother had gone to college for a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you finished high school, you would decide next step was college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.159981208177692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, my, I have an older sister. She graduated from Macalester and I went to Hamline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents, my mother had gone to college for a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you finished high school, you would decide next step was college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you ended up studying history, not being quite sure what your goal was. Did you expect to be a teacher or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.77775457799715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you ended up studying history, not being quite sure what your goal was. Did you expect to be a teacher or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At first, when I first went to college, I thought I would be a teacher, but and I thought I was going to major in English or math, which I had done well in high school. But I didn't, I took. What threw me off is I was put in advanced classes from tests in both English and math. And compared to people from big city schools, I shouldn't have been in advanced classes. And that hurt me. It threw me off. So it took a while to adjust to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, if I had just been in regular classes, I would have been fine. But trying to put me in advanced classes when I really wasn't prepared for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your four years of college, did you do any travel, any volunteer work? Did you study any foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.76200972107476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I didn't travel around when I was in college. I had worked in the summers and I did do volunteer work when I was, uh, one of the first things, just community activist. I volunteered to, uh, go in. This was in, you know, in the sixties. Right when I was a freshman, '62 or '63, I volunteered to go into a suburban Minneapolis or a suburban neighborhood and ask them about a Black family. I think when one had moved in or done anything, that was my activist. And it was it was a little shocking to hear that. But I mean, Minnesota was like 98 percent white."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For someone doing that. I like I said, I published The Liner and I was in a sorority in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, do you remember when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.58272805070958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For someone doing that. I like I said, I published The Liner and I was in a sorority in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember, do you remember when you first heard of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that I heard it right at the very beginning. Well, I mean, Minnesota. Hubert Humphrey was from Minnesota. And Hubert Humphrey got some credit for the Peace Corps, at least in Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yes, we did hear about it at the very beginning and said I wanted to go into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as it developed to go in the Peace Corps, what was the reaction of your family and your friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.536364500788421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that I heard it right at the very beginning. Well, I mean, Minnesota. Hubert Humphrey was from Minnesota. And Hubert Humphrey got some credit for the Peace Corps, at least in Minnesota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yes, we did hear about it at the very beginning and said I wanted to go into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as it developed to go in the Peace Corps, what was the reaction of your family and your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my friends, especially from college, thought it was great. My family, my father especially thought, what? You were raised on a farm. You went there. Now you go to college and now you want to go to India for two years and work in a, you know, you know, on a farm or do all that. And applied nutrition we were working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.773289507146197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my friends, especially from college, thought it was great. My family, my father especially thought, what? You were raised on a farm. You went there. Now you go to college and now you want to go to India for two years and work in a, you know, you know, on a farm or do all that. And applied nutrition we were working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going. Right. So he didn't have much to say about it, but he didn't. He didn't, he thought I should be, you know, working, getting a job or just something else. My mother thought it was great. My mother always wanted to travel, and she loved the fact that I could travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so as you came near graduation, you had already been accepted to the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.627283274548966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I applied in May. I graduated on 6-6-66 [June 6, 1966]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went into the Peace Corps about a week afterwards or ten weeks after was the first time I flew in an airplane. I flew from Minneapolis to Boston and we were supposed to fly to Lebanon, near where Hanover, where Dartmouth is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we couldn't, that was, visibility was poor. So they actually, we went by car from Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was the first, your first time flying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.141425860609962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went into the Peace Corps about a week afterwards or ten weeks after was the first time I flew in an airplane. I flew from Minneapolis to Boston and we were supposed to fly to Lebanon, near where Hanover, where Dartmouth is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we couldn't, that was, visibility was poor. So they actually, we went by car from Boston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was the first, your first time flying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you received the telegram from Peace Corps saying you've been accepted for training and India, at that point did you have any second thoughts? I mean, now the idea of Peace Corps has suddenly become a reality."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.347439334086372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First time flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But when you received the telegram from Peace Corps saying you've been accepted for training and India, at that point did you have any second thoughts? I mean, now the idea of Peace Corps has suddenly become a reality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have any second thoughts. One thing, though, I did not know until I got to Peace Corps, until I got there, is that, I mean, I didn't have to do anything. I was, I was going straight out of college. I didn't own anything. I just, you know, if I go there and it didn't work out, I would get something else. But when I was in the Peace Corps, unlike what it is now I think, is we were at, there were 70 people invited for training or 75 or something and only 50 made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was competitive. You didn't necessarily go to training and become a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll talk about that. So, uh, you, you are accepted into a program in applied nutrition, but you had no background in studying nutrition?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.05271037120708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have any second thoughts. One thing, though, I did not know until I got to Peace Corps, until I got there, is that, I mean, I didn't have to do anything. I was, I was going straight out of college. I didn't own anything. I just, you know, if I go there and it didn't work out, I would get something else. But when I was in the Peace Corps, unlike what it is now I think, is we were at, there were 70 people invited for training or 75 or something and only 50 made it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was competitive. You didn't necessarily go to training and become a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll talk about that. So, uh, you, you are accepted into a program in applied nutrition, but you had no background in studying nutrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I think it's, I think it said something about it was an agriculture program or something. Because with the applied nutrition program, we started nursery schools with the mid-day meal, but there were people that were nurses and nurses and, you know, Peace Corps nurses and nurses, and there were people that worked with poultry and some people worked with eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think it was because you grew up on a farm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.836344856896756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was competitive. You didn't necessarily go to training and become a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll talk about that. So, uh, you, you are accepted into a program in applied nutrition, but you had no background in studying nutrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I think it's, I think it said something about it was an agriculture program or something. Because with the applied nutrition program, we started nursery schools with the mid-day meal, but there were people that were nurses and nurses and, you know, Peace Corps nurses and nurses, and there were people that worked with poultry and some people worked with eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think it was because you grew up on a farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it helped me. And I think there was something about the overall description. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now you report to Dartmouth, you flew, got into Boston and they took you up to and you're at Dartmouth College. Is that where the training is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.484827618774173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I think it's, I think it said something about it was an agriculture program or something. Because with the applied nutrition program, we started nursery schools with the mid-day meal, but there were people that were nurses and nurses and, you know, Peace Corps nurses and nurses, and there were people that worked with poultry and some people worked with eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think it was because you grew up on a farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it helped me. And I think there was something about the overall description. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now you report to Dartmouth, you flew, got into Boston and they took you up to and you're at Dartmouth College. Is that where the training is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's where we were told. So we spent a whole week at Dartmouth and then we went to the hills of Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to just the very first getting together in Dartmouth. Now you're in the presence of, what, 70 other people who've joined the Peace Corps, and it's your first chance to look at others who made the same decision as you. Do you recall your reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.005960023177991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's where we were told. So we spent a whole week at Dartmouth and then we went to the hills of Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to just the very first getting together in Dartmouth. Now you're in the presence of, what, 70 other people who've joined the Peace Corps, and it's your first chance to look at others who made the same decision as you. Do you recall your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not my first reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt comfortable?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.895511136864434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not my first reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was just, yeah, I was just taking it all in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. And so you spent a week at Dartmouth, and what went on during that first week."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.883901263182704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not my first reaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was just, yeah, I was just taking it all in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. And so you spent a week at Dartmouth, and what went on during that first week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the, we basically got settled into what we were doing, had some classes. I'm not even sure we spent a week, because we, right away they told us we would be going to a ski resort and we would be. The couple, there were some couples there. They would be building their own places to live for the evening, their cots, their little tents that they had. And we, uh, we were in more of the camping. The girls were all just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of year was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.634446003929262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the, we basically got settled into what we were doing, had some classes. I'm not even sure we spent a week, because we, right away they told us we would be going to a ski resort and we would be. The couple, there were some couples there. They would be building their own places to live for the evening, their cots, their little tents that they had. And we, uh, we were in more of the camping. The girls were all just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time of year was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a really, we went in June. We left in September, but it was very cold, wet summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, the group was mostly women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.482717782143624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a really, we went in June. We left in September, but it was very cold, wet summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Now, the group was mostly women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Most, when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.003355286597067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Most, when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The training group was mostly men. Actually, I mean, this was in 1966 and there were just a lot of the men getting out of the, not going to Vietnam for the war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, no, they were mostly, mostly men I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you then go from Dartmouth to the ski resort where you build your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.781505873996742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The training group was mostly men. Actually, I mean, this was in 1966 and there were just a lot of the men getting out of the, not going to Vietnam for the war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, no, they were mostly, mostly men I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you then go from Dartmouth to the ski resort where you build your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We, we didn't, the women didn't have to build our own, but we were pretty rustic and we had no heat. Like I said, it was cold. We slept in our sleeping bags. And in the end, because we were doing with the nursery school, they ended up bringing up some children, boys from the slum. I don't know if they were, I got, was assigned a boy. I think they were all boys from the slums in New Haven that they said, and we were supposed to practice with them and they absolutely wore us out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you practicing? Just working with the child?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.646117637774157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, no, they were mostly, mostly men I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you then go from Dartmouth to the ski resort where you build your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We, we didn't, the women didn't have to build our own, but we were pretty rustic and we had no heat. Like I said, it was cold. We slept in our sleeping bags. And in the end, because we were doing with the nursery school, they ended up bringing up some children, boys from the slum. I don't know if they were, I got, was assigned a boy. I think they were all boys from the slums in New Haven that they said, and we were supposed to practice with them and they absolutely wore us out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you practicing? Just working with the child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just working with them. Right. And they thought it would be a good idea. But studying the language, learning everything else, it was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, who, do you remember who ran the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.495686264193509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We, we didn't, the women didn't have to build our own, but we were pretty rustic and we had no heat. Like I said, it was cold. We slept in our sleeping bags. And in the end, because we were doing with the nursery school, they ended up bringing up some children, boys from the slum. I don't know if they were, I got, was assigned a boy. I think they were all boys from the slums in New Haven that they said, and we were supposed to practice with them and they absolutely wore us out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you practicing? Just working with the child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just working with them. Right. And they thought it would be a good idea. But studying the language, learning everything else, it was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, who, do you remember who ran the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Wright. I forget his first name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it, was it under Dartmouth or was it some company or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.419322721801795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think, no. I think that these people probably did. And they had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah,"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were the, Wright was the one who was in charge and did all that. He had some, he was more affiliated with Yale because that's where he came from, New Haven and everything. And a lot of the staff were all returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them, it must have been in India, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Most training programs have several components. One is language. Language training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.577025246446437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were the, Wright was the one who was in charge and did all that. He had some, he was more affiliated with Yale because that's where he came from, New Haven and everything. And a lot of the staff were all returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From India?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them, it must have been in India, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Most training programs have several components. One is language. Language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the language training you had."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.641139162718263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them, it must have been in India, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Most training programs have several components. One is language. Language training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the language training you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned Telugu and we did have English. I mean, Indian, you know, speaking who is native tongue was Telugu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where is Telugu spoken?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.601265736353625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the language training you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned Telugu and we did have English. I mean, Indian, you know, speaking who is native tongue was Telugu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where is Telugu spoken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Telugu is spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh which is in South India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in the south."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.223628595948472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned Telugu and we did have English. I mean, Indian, you know, speaking who is native tongue was Telugu."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where is Telugu spoken?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Telugu is spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh which is in South India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in the south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's, where we were as in the very south. Hyderabad is the capital of Andhra and we were closer by bus to either go to Madras or Bangalore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the entire group learning Telugu? And you are all going to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5818095510538575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Telugu is spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh which is in South India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in the south."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's, where we were as in the very south. Hyderabad is the capital of Andhra and we were closer by bus to either go to Madras or Bangalore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the entire group learning Telugu? And you are all going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of us were going to Andhra. This was at a time when, after Indira Gandhi and Johnson had written, had a proposal, and the United States was giving money or something. And they had a lot of Peace Corps volunteers that went with it. We had, just in our state, we maybe had three or 400. I didn't even know all the volunteers in Andhra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an enormous project, India was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9797883900598414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It's, where we were as in the very south. Hyderabad is the capital of Andhra and we were closer by bus to either go to Madras or Bangalore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the entire group learning Telugu? And you are all going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of us were going to Andhra. This was at a time when, after Indira Gandhi and Johnson had written, had a proposal, and the United States was giving money or something. And they had a lot of Peace Corps volunteers that went with it. We had, just in our state, we maybe had three or 400. I didn't even know all the volunteers in Andhra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an enormous project, India was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "India was enormous project. We had, every state had like two doctors assigned to, Peace Corps, doctors assigned to the Peace Corps there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll get to, let's stay in training and then we'll get overseas. So there was language training. Were you told that you had to get up to a certain proficiency in language or you wouldn't go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.310875988955379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of us were going to Andhra. This was at a time when, after Indira Gandhi and Johnson had written, had a proposal, and the United States was giving money or something. And they had a lot of Peace Corps volunteers that went with it. We had, just in our state, we maybe had three or 400. I didn't even know all the volunteers in Andhra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an enormous project, India was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "India was enormous project. We had, every state had like two doctors assigned to, Peace Corps, doctors assigned to the Peace Corps there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll get to, let's stay in training and then we'll get overseas. So there was language training. Were you told that you had to get up to a certain proficiency in language or you wouldn't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn't, because one of the, this, the, at that time, the south wanted English as a national language and the northern India wanted Hindi as the language. And so a lot of people spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.67875109883931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "India was enormous project. We had, every state had like two doctors assigned to, Peace Corps, doctors assigned to the Peace Corps there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we'll get to, let's stay in training and then we'll get overseas. So there was language training. Were you told that you had to get up to a certain proficiency in language or you wouldn't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn't, because one of the, this, the, at that time, the south wanted English as a national language and the northern India wanted Hindi as the language. And so a lot of people spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learn Telugu, we were stressed Telugu, but I don't think it wasn't as important as maybe some other groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another component of training often is technical studies, whatever work you're expected to do. They try, the Peace Corps tries to prepare you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.087501220932567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we really didn't, because one of the, this, the, at that time, the south wanted English as a national language and the northern India wanted Hindi as the language. And so a lot of people spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learn Telugu, we were stressed Telugu, but I don't think it wasn't as important as maybe some other groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another component of training often is technical studies, whatever work you're expected to do. They try, the Peace Corps tries to prepare you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4305569121472965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learn Telugu, we were stressed Telugu, but I don't think it wasn't as important as maybe some other groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another component of training often is technical studies, whatever work you're expected to do. They try, the Peace Corps tries to prepare you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of professors that would tell us about India. You know, we took history courses, geography courses, and also we worked with applied nutrition and. And so what, our job, our part of it was starting nursery schools and so we used a lot of the Head Start, which Head Start was just starting in the United States and we used a lot of the Head Start principles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, this was all while you were up in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.811729902385885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of professors that would tell us about India. You know, we took history courses, geography courses, and also we worked with applied nutrition and. And so what, our job, our part of it was starting nursery schools and so we used a lot of the Head Start, which Head Start was just starting in the United States and we used a lot of the Head Start principles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, this was all while you were up in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the ski resort area."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.124144335984316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lot of professors that would tell us about India. You know, we took history courses, geography courses, and also we worked with applied nutrition and. And so what, our job, our part of it was starting nursery schools and so we used a lot of the Head Start, which Head Start was just starting in the United States and we used a lot of the Head Start principles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, this was all while you were up in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the ski resort area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Berkshire, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So did anyone from Peace Corps India or Washington say, well, when you get there, the job you're going to do is this? I mean, or was it left a little vague?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.471271484427018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the ski resort area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Berkshire, Vermont."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So did anyone from Peace Corps India or Washington say, well, when you get there, the job you're going to do is this? I mean, or was it left a little vague?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was always left a little vague. I think that we would be doing community development and working with that so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So there's language training, area technical, and also area studies. I gather the technical and area studies went together. You learned about India."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.285520351144466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was always left a little vague. I think that we would be doing community development and working with that so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So there's language training, area technical, and also area studies. I gather the technical and area studies went together. You learned about India."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned about India. We also learned technical. We learned, even though mine was applied nutrition and I had that, oh, I had to learn about chickens, I had to take poultry exams and the other things. And we learned all about unfertilized eggs and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had tests. So yes, they were serious. There were people that, I mean, as a matter of fact, I didn't do well on one test. I had to repeat it. And I was scared stiff that I wouldn't make it repeating the test. I mean, I studied and got everything there, and, I mean, I aced that test. Ooh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you had grown up on a farm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.761689279049407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We learned about India. We also learned technical. We learned, even though mine was applied nutrition and I had that, oh, I had to learn about chickens, I had to take poultry exams and the other things. And we learned all about unfertilized eggs and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had tests. So yes, they were serious. There were people that, I mean, as a matter of fact, I didn't do well on one test. I had to repeat it. And I was scared stiff that I wouldn't make it repeating the test. I mean, I studied and got everything there, and, I mean, I aced that test. Ooh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you had grown up on a farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I grew up on a farm, I think I thought I didn't have to study it so hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Now, the other, the other major part of training is what's called selection. And it has been done in different ways, in different programs. Were you aware of the selection process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.290765865610452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had tests. So yes, they were serious. There were people that, I mean, as a matter of fact, I didn't do well on one test. I had to repeat it. And I was scared stiff that I wouldn't make it repeating the test. I mean, I studied and got everything there, and, I mean, I aced that test. Ooh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you had grown up on a farm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I grew up on a farm, I think I thought I didn't have to study it so hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Now, the other, the other major part of training is what's called selection. And it has been done in different ways, in different programs. Were you aware of the selection process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, they did tell us about that. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it go, how did it work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.146455234033541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took the, uh, we had to do the Minnesota Multiphasical [Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory] which I had taken in high school and college. So I was used to it, but it scared other people. And my roommate actually did not make the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, at mid, we had sort of like a midterm. There were some people that were sent home right at midterm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some people were just warned. My roommate was warned at midterm, not, she didn't have to leave then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the warning she got?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.829394704481713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we, at mid, we had sort of like a midterm. There were some people that were sent home right at midterm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some people were just warned. My roommate was warned at midterm, not, she didn't have to leave then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the warning she got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she just needed to be stronger in, you know, in her subjects and doing all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It wasn't she had to be stronger psychologically, I mean, because?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.588216338313014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some people were just warned. My roommate was warned at midterm, not, she didn't have to leave then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the warning she got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she just needed to be stronger in, you know, in her subjects and doing all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It wasn't she had to be stronger psychologically, I mean, because?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe that too. But just, I mean, I, I don't really know because I was, I felt that I got strong encouragement that, yes, I was going to make it and doing everything. I, I know that she was a little worried. I listened to her there, but I guess it was so competitive that a lot of people just, you just didn't sit around and talk much about it and especially since you were living in, you know, and it was so cold and doing all that, it was more truly a survival. And you were, you were, you know, being kind to people, but you basically were worried about yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did. [tape break] Okay. So you mentioned in selection that actually your roommate was deselected or was warned at mid selection. Did you have, were you interviewed separately by a psychiatrist or psychologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.43135148701446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she just needed to be stronger in, you know, in her subjects and doing all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. It wasn't she had to be stronger psychologically, I mean, because?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe that too. But just, I mean, I, I don't really know because I was, I felt that I got strong encouragement that, yes, I was going to make it and doing everything. I, I know that she was a little worried. I listened to her there, but I guess it was so competitive that a lot of people just, you just didn't sit around and talk much about it and especially since you were living in, you know, and it was so cold and doing all that, it was more truly a survival. And you were, you were, you know, being kind to people, but you basically were worried about yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did. [tape break] Okay. So you mentioned in selection that actually your roommate was deselected or was warned at mid selection. Did you have, were you interviewed separately by a psychiatrist or psychologist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We all had separate interviews. We all were tested. We had separate interviews with psychiatrists, we had separate interviews with other staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did it shake you? I mean, I mean, most of us aren't accustomed to going, having psychiatric interviews and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.409075909894394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We all had separate interviews. We all were tested. We had separate interviews with psychiatrists, we had separate interviews with other staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did it shake you? I mean, I mean, most of us aren't accustomed to going, having psychiatric interviews and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not really. I just, I don't know. I guess I didn't know. I guess I didn't know enough not to know, not to be afraid or anything, but it didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people talked about it and I guess I never, I really didn't know what a psychiatric interview was, except I, the only thing experience I had with is we had foster children in our home. And, you know, we had a boy that used to go to his, he would always see the psychologist to play games he would talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So was there anything else about training? How long did it last?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.232306566549326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not really. I just, I don't know. I guess I didn't know. I guess I didn't know enough not to know, not to be afraid or anything, but it didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people talked about it and I guess I never, I really didn't know what a psychiatric interview was, except I, the only thing experience I had with is we had foster children in our home. And, you know, we had a boy that used to go to his, he would always see the psychologist to play games he would talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So was there anything else about training? How long did it last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It lasted three months. And one weekend we did get to go, I went with a group of other people. We went to Cape Cod."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a break from training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9247850739436965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other people talked about it and I guess I never, I really didn't know what a psychiatric interview was, except I, the only thing experience I had with is we had foster children in our home. And, you know, we had a boy that used to go to his, he would always see the psychologist to play games he would talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So was there anything else about training? How long did it last?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It lasted three months. And one weekend we did get to go, I went with a group of other people. We went to Cape Cod."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a break from training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a break from training. A weekend, a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you working with a child for the whole training part or just a week or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.549117375239131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a break from training. A weekend, a couple of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you working with a child for the whole training part or just a week or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just towards the end. They gave us different children. They assigned to us. And one of the things is we took the children on a field trip and I was driving. Another lady was with me, an older lady. And this is in Vermont, up and down the hills. And I was coming down the hill. These were old cars. And I said, the brakes aren't working. Very quietly. And she said, well, use the handbrakes. And I said, I tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, I mean, I never used the, I never put my foot on the gas after that, just trying to see what we could do. And when we got down, since, you know, since we hadn't given it any gas, it was lower, but we just went around in circles and just stopped. And then she got out and called the camp. And the people at the camp thought we were wonderful, but the children thought we were terrible. And after that, the person that I was supposed to be taking care of didn't even want to talk to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. But that didn't affect the training as such?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.499019305821257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just towards the end. They gave us different children. They assigned to us. And one of the things is we took the children on a field trip and I was driving. Another lady was with me, an older lady. And this is in Vermont, up and down the hills. And I was coming down the hill. These were old cars. And I said, the brakes aren't working. Very quietly. And she said, well, use the handbrakes. And I said, I tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, I mean, I never used the, I never put my foot on the gas after that, just trying to see what we could do. And when we got down, since, you know, since we hadn't given it any gas, it was lower, but we just went around in circles and just stopped. And then she got out and called the camp. And the people at the camp thought we were wonderful, but the children thought we were terrible. And after that, the person that I was supposed to be taking care of didn't even want to talk to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. But that didn't affect the training as such?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. They, they asked me then if I wanted to be assigned to someone else. I said no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then were there any other components of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.887799228690286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we, I mean, I never used the, I never put my foot on the gas after that, just trying to see what we could do. And when we got down, since, you know, since we hadn't given it any gas, it was lower, but we just went around in circles and just stopped. And then she got out and called the camp. And the people at the camp thought we were wonderful, but the children thought we were terrible. And after that, the person that I was supposed to be taking care of didn't even want to talk to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. But that didn't affect the training as such?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. They, they asked me then if I wanted to be assigned to someone else. I said no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then were there any other components of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a physical, this was a very much physical fitness. I mean, we had someone from the New York Times that came out and wrote it was the Fort Dix of the Peace Corps. And we had, we all had to do a ten minute mile or we couldn't make it. And I was, you know, study doing hard, staying up all night, running, chasing the kids. It was hard. But one morning, I got up, I did the ten minute mile. I made it and never got up again for any physical education. But we had to do a ten minute mile. Yeah, we had lots of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone try to justify why they were doing it, the physical training part of it? You weren't going to be going to India to climb mountains."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.098490025638252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we weren't. And that's what some of the people were complaining about and talking. And we, I guess even more so when we got in the country, is that India is hot and it's hot, hotter, and hottest. And we were going in the south where it's hottest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a cold summer. Temperatures weren't the same. We were not going to be walking up and down mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing all that. But they guess, they just, I mean, it was like the challenge. I mean, you it was we accepted whatever it was, you know, this process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you knew it was part of the selection process."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.553877806264725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a cold summer. Temperatures weren't the same. We were not going to be walking up and down mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Doing all that. But they guess, they just, I mean, it was like the challenge. I mean, you it was we accepted whatever it was, you know, this process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you knew it was part of the selection process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of the selection process. And I mean, when if you went there, you really wanted to go to India. And I think that was what, just deciding to see if you really wanted to go. That was what they tested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also have health training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.62207136575892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was part of the selection process. And I mean, when if you went there, you really wanted to go to India. And I think that was what, just deciding to see if you really wanted to go. That was what they tested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also have health training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had, we had people that especially that were in nurses training. We all had to have a couple of health courses, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were there volunteers who had served in India who took part in the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.246745961954356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had, we had people that especially that were in nurses training. We all had to have a couple of health courses, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were there volunteers who had served in India who took part in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Most of the, most of our instructors had all been to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they, you could talk to them about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.9408288466159505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had, we had people that especially that were in nurses training. We all had to have a couple of health courses, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And were there volunteers who had served in India who took part in the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Most of the, most of our instructors had all been to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they, you could talk to them about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could talk to them. There also was one volunteer who had been raised in India with missionaries and she spoke Hindi, although we were learning Telugu, and she had a hard time during training because they thought that she was just trying to get back to India. So even though she was good, but I mean, we would of course ask, she would tell us all kinds of stories about India. We liked that. It was easier to talk to her than, you know, some of the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they weren't, you weren't worried about selection with her."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.489809829573278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Most of the, most of our instructors had all been to India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they, you could talk to them about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We could talk to them. There also was one volunteer who had been raised in India with missionaries and she spoke Hindi, although we were learning Telugu, and she had a hard time during training because they thought that she was just trying to get back to India. So even though she was good, but I mean, we would of course ask, she would tell us all kinds of stories about India. We liked that. It was easier to talk to her than, you know, some of the staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they weren't, you weren't worried about selection with her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And with the other thing is that what we had to do to prepare us for India, I guess. But one day we had to cut up the chicken and then that evening was the first night that we had to eat without our without silverware, with our hands, because you didn't eat with the hands in India. And there were a lot of people that were hungry that night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, uh, did the group, if people with disappearing from training all the time, did the group protest at all? Did the group come together and say, what's going on here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.777542999473182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And with the other thing is that what we had to do to prepare us for India, I guess. But one day we had to cut up the chicken and then that evening was the first night that we had to eat without our without silverware, with our hands, because you didn't eat with the hands in India. And there were a lot of people that were hungry that night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, uh, did the group, if people with disappearing from training all the time, did the group protest at all? Did the group come together and say, what's going on here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. No. Because we knew at the very beginning that everybody would not make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just the people were deselected, but there was only, it was just at the midterm and then at the final. But what was really almost unfair that people that would, we knew they had the deselection process. But in the end, and we even voted on the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.419492221636869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. No. Because we knew at the very beginning that everybody would not make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was just the people were deselected, but there was only, it was just at the midterm and then at the final. But what was really almost unfair that people that would, we knew they had the deselection process. But in the end, and we even voted on the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had to vote which team we, what people we'd want on our team to see who was liked by the other people, do a lot of other things. But the one thing that we didn't find out until the very final day is it didn't, they didn't exactly have a set number before. They still had to, talking to India, talking to some other place, and finding out that maybe this person could make it, maybe this person couldn't, or that they could take that, because I mean, it found out later India had a lot of volunteers and I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the group didn't object to doing the rating? Well, my vote might get someone kicked out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.925299039057863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had to vote which team we, what people we'd want on our team to see who was liked by the other people, do a lot of other things. But the one thing that we didn't find out until the very final day is it didn't, they didn't exactly have a set number before. They still had to, talking to India, talking to some other place, and finding out that maybe this person could make it, maybe this person couldn't, or that they could take that, because I mean, it found out later India had a lot of volunteers and I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the group didn't object to doing the rating? Well, my vote might get someone kicked out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because in a way, it was just the way it was. We thought that that was what we were taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since it was the time it was, where was there any discussion about Vietnam?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.694776710064292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because in a way, it was just the way it was. We thought that that was what we were taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since it was the time it was, where was there any discussion about Vietnam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in '66. So it was a little early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was before the big buildup."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.438640788960324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because in a way, it was just the way it was. We thought that that was what we were taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, since it was the time it was, where was there any discussion about Vietnam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in '66. So it was a little early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was before the big buildup."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were reading about Vietnam. We talked some about Vietnam. But really, I mean, I guess I don't remember much of the other discussion because it was, we were working and studying, you know, 12, 13 hours, and then trying to get our sleep. I don't remember, but I'm sure there might have been people that were talking about it because there were some guys in other groups I know, and probably in this group, who were in the Peace Corps instead of being drafted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because you were going to India, which was known to be a third world leader, sort of a neutral, were the discussions of politics and how to talk when you met Indians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.265156432178138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in '66. So it was a little early."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was before the big buildup."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were reading about Vietnam. We talked some about Vietnam. But really, I mean, I guess I don't remember much of the other discussion because it was, we were working and studying, you know, 12, 13 hours, and then trying to get our sleep. I don't remember, but I'm sure there might have been people that were talking about it because there were some guys in other groups I know, and probably in this group, who were in the Peace Corps instead of being drafted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because you were going to India, which was known to be a third world leader, sort of a neutral, were the discussions of politics and how to talk when you met Indians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there was, there was a politics, especially politics, where we learned a lot about the history of India in our training. Are we still talking about training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.072396035753485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were reading about Vietnam. We talked some about Vietnam. But really, I mean, I guess I don't remember much of the other discussion because it was, we were working and studying, you know, 12, 13 hours, and then trying to get our sleep. I don't remember, but I'm sure there might have been people that were talking about it because there were some guys in other groups I know, and probably in this group, who were in the Peace Corps instead of being drafted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because you were going to India, which was known to be a third world leader, sort of a neutral, were the discussions of politics and how to talk when you met Indians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there was, there was a politics, especially politics, where we learned a lot about the history of India in our training. Are we still talking about training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And with the, with the Indians in training. Well, I think. I don't know, maybe just from my perspective, I was thinking more from the history than anything. I know afterwards, I was surprised to find that some of the volunteers were put in villages that were very socialist or, you know, everything. But we were, we were taught, of course, that the British had left India, and that was not, you know, and that India was going through its independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall anyone saying, well, you're going to be, because you're American, you'll be attacked about Vietnam? And it was still early, so probably."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.8582178175038715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, there was, there was a politics, especially politics, where we learned a lot about the history of India in our training. Are we still talking about training?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And with the, with the Indians in training. Well, I think. I don't know, maybe just from my perspective, I was thinking more from the history than anything. I know afterwards, I was surprised to find that some of the volunteers were put in villages that were very socialist or, you know, everything. But we were, we were taught, of course, that the British had left India, and that was not, you know, and that India was going through its independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall anyone saying, well, you're going to be, because you're American, you'll be attacked about Vietnam? And it was still early, so probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the other, what, no. We were Americans and what we were taught in training and we certainly did, is that the women were, we were dresses. We did not wear jeans. We weren't wearing slacks. You were doing that. And you were also supposed to be well dressed. You were not mistaken for all the people, the hippies that were in India that were, that were avoiding the draft or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for ashrams or."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.731353130559857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And with the, with the Indians in training. Well, I think. I don't know, maybe just from my perspective, I was thinking more from the history than anything. I know afterwards, I was surprised to find that some of the volunteers were put in villages that were very socialist or, you know, everything. But we were, we were taught, of course, that the British had left India, and that was not, you know, and that India was going through its independence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall anyone saying, well, you're going to be, because you're American, you'll be attacked about Vietnam? And it was still early, so probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the other, what, no. We were Americans and what we were taught in training and we certainly did, is that the women were, we were dresses. We did not wear jeans. We weren't wearing slacks. You were doing that. And you were also supposed to be well dressed. You were not mistaken for all the people, the hippies that were in India that were, that were avoiding the draft or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for ashrams or."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I remember more about talking about the hippies than about Vietnam. I became interested when I was in India about Vietnam but not before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so final selection and you're chosen. What happens at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.257059033955397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the other, what, no. We were Americans and what we were taught in training and we certainly did, is that the women were, we were dresses. We did not wear jeans. We weren't wearing slacks. You were doing that. And you were also supposed to be well dressed. You were not mistaken for all the people, the hippies that were in India that were, that were avoiding the draft or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for ashrams or."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I remember more about talking about the hippies than about Vietnam. I became interested when I was in India about Vietnam but not before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so final selection and you're chosen. What happens at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, we were told. We were told about the team that we had and they combined our team with the other split training group that went, that was trained in Williams, Williams College. And I ended up, most of my, all of the people that I worked with had been trained in Williams College. So they weren't the people that I was trained with at Dartmouth. But then we went home. We were, we went home for a while, like about a week. And then we were supposed to all meet in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were home, was there a grand celebration going or is just quiet? And did you have any second thoughts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.841176704394885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I remember more about talking about the hippies than about Vietnam. I became interested when I was in India about Vietnam but not before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so final selection and you're chosen. What happens at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, we were told. We were told about the team that we had and they combined our team with the other split training group that went, that was trained in Williams, Williams College. And I ended up, most of my, all of the people that I worked with had been trained in Williams College. So they weren't the people that I was trained with at Dartmouth. But then we went home. We were, we went home for a while, like about a week. And then we were supposed to all meet in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were home, was there a grand celebration going or is just quiet? And did you have any second thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was just looking forward to the adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone and nobody tried to say, oh, please don't go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.211329264685043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was just looking forward to the adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone and nobody tried to say, oh, please don't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you had the week home and you report to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.901476960761158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you had the week home and you report to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then we were supposed to meet in New York and go out of there, but we ended up spending an extra couple of days in New York because they didn't have visas for us. We had a problem with the visas, and so we didn't know how long we'd be in New York, but we were. So we were put up in hotels for a couple of days in New York. We finally got to go, so we were tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your first time in New York City?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.668307734179065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So then you had the week home and you report to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then we were supposed to meet in New York and go out of there, but we ended up spending an extra couple of days in New York because they didn't have visas for us. We had a problem with the visas, and so we didn't know how long we'd be in New York, but we were. So we were put up in hotels for a couple of days in New York. We finally got to go, so we were tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your first time in New York City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the first time in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to do a little tour?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.409230815754516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then we were supposed to meet in New York and go out of there, but we ended up spending an extra couple of days in New York because they didn't have visas for us. We had a problem with the visas, and so we didn't know how long we'd be in New York, but we were. So we were put up in hotels for a couple of days in New York. We finally got to go, so we were tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your first time in New York City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the first time in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to do a little tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We did, we went to some of the things. Uh huh. But we also couldn't do a lot because we never knew, you know, in a couple hours we might get a visa and leave or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And talk about the trip, how you got to India and your initial reaction and arriving there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7423118667192754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then came back and we flew to Pakistan. But there we just were there in the airport for an hour or so. And oh, the heat, the heat, the heat was almost too much. The first time realizing we were, the heat was going to be a big, big factor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we went to Delhi and it wasn't the heat. It was the smell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It hit you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So you arrived, you arrived in India. You went into Delhi. Was there a reception or just?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5330181149880193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were told, do not drink the water. Do not drink the water. Even when you brush your teeth, do not drink the water. Well, I drink the water. I spit out, but I drank the water. I got dysentery. And I got sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, as a matter of fact, I ended up in the hospital. Then we went on a bus from there to go to our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that. And I ended up at the hospital for a few days before I went to my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in the hospital in Hyderabad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9255756833200213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, as a matter of fact, I ended up in the hospital. Then we went on a bus from there to go to our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that. And I ended up at the hospital for a few days before I went to my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in the hospital in Hyderabad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not in Hyderabad. I was beyond that in, uh, near Bangalore. When I was out there, it was, it was a town that had, it was, had a lot of the big mission hospital and where they had a lot of leper colony. I don't remember the name of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned, you mentioned that you became part of a team and most of the team trained elsewhere. What was the team concept? I don't, how is that supposed to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.361750759244468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After that. And I ended up at the hospital for a few days before I went to my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in the hospital in Hyderabad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not in Hyderabad. I was beyond that in, uh, near Bangalore. When I was out there, it was, it was a town that had, it was, had a lot of the big mission hospital and where they had a lot of leper colony. I don't remember the name of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned, you mentioned that you became part of a team and most of the team trained elsewhere. What was the team concept? I don't, how is that supposed to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The team concept was that one person was the boahdi, which is nursery school, to start the nursery school. But the reason to start the nursery school was not for education, but it was to feed with the mid- day meal. And so you had someone else that was the, was my roommate. Then later was the one who was working on community gardens. Someone else was raising poultry. And we had a nurse in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on that team, who were you on the team? Which role were you playing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.846389732493853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not in Hyderabad. I was beyond that in, uh, near Bangalore. When I was out there, it was, it was a town that had, it was, had a lot of the big mission hospital and where they had a lot of leper colony. I don't remember the name of the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned, you mentioned that you became part of a team and most of the team trained elsewhere. What was the team concept? I don't, how is that supposed to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The team concept was that one person was the boahdi, which is nursery school, to start the nursery school. But the reason to start the nursery school was not for education, but it was to feed with the mid- day meal. And so you had someone else that was the, was my roommate. Then later was the one who was working on community gardens. Someone else was raising poultry. And we had a nurse in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on that team, who were you on the team? Which role were you playing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was the starting nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. And that had been part of your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.273766369437615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The team concept was that one person was the boahdi, which is nursery school, to start the nursery school. But the reason to start the nursery school was not for education, but it was to feed with the mid- day meal. And so you had someone else that was the, was my roommate. Then later was the one who was working on community gardens. Someone else was raising poultry. And we had a nurse in the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on that team, who were you on the team? Which role were you playing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was the starting nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. And that had been part of your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had been part of my training, right, with the Head Start, just doing that. It not as, I guess what I wasn't trained at and what I, or I don't remember being trained as much, but a lot of what we did was more for starting nursery schools, it's more community organization than working with our coworkers. And then there was money from CARE to get the money there that I was able to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, a lot of the program was based on distributing CARE food in a school lunch program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.490763195387674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. It was, we got the UNICEF packets were the, for the garden, the beans, something else. And then someone raised the poultry and you had eggs with the poultry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so for food for the community garden. So my part was just getting a teacher and getting the building and getting, you know, the part for the, for the nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I spent a lot of time, I had a coworker and most of us had coworkers. I got along very well with my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, let's, let's. So what's the name of the village you finally ended up in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8786257726529714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so for food for the community garden. So my part was just getting a teacher and getting the building and getting, you know, the part for the, for the nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I spent a lot of time, I had a coworker and most of us had coworkers. I got along very well with my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, let's, let's. So what's the name of the village you finally ended up in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chandragiri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chandragiri. When you got to Chandragiri, you must have been a little late because you were in the hospital."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.309584191836635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I spent a lot of time, I had a coworker and most of us had coworkers. I got along very well with my coworker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, let's, let's. So what's the name of the village you finally ended up in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chandragiri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chandragiri. When you got to Chandragiri, you must have been a little late because you were in the hospital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The others on the team had already been there? Were you the first Peace Corps to go into that village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.788426879818483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chandragiri."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chandragiri. When you got to Chandragiri, you must have been a little late because you were in the hospital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The others on the team had already been there? Were you the first Peace Corps to go into that village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were the first Peace Corps to go in that village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was, had someone arranged housing for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.692008656940227, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had electricity. And also we were given two Raleigh bicycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were given, they were supposed to be Raleigh. We had Raleighs. Some people didn't. But that we, because we were told, they were told that the Indian bicycles wouldn't hold Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had English, we got three speed bicycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Talk about your living arrangement. You first come into the village now. You're finally at the end of your Peace Corps journey in a way. I mean, because you've finally come to the point where you're going to work. Talk about your reaction and settling into the living arrangement, and then we'll talk about your work situation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.102231841044697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were given, they were supposed to be Raleigh. We had Raleighs. Some people didn't. But that we, because we were told, they were told that the Indian bicycles wouldn't hold Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had English, we got three speed bicycles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Talk about your living arrangement. You first come into the village now. You're finally at the end of your Peace Corps journey in a way. I mean, because you've finally come to the point where you're going to work. Talk about your reaction and settling into the living arrangement, and then we'll talk about your work situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, right. Well, we worked in groups, but Wendy Cutter and I were the only ones assigned to our village, were there. We were in a mahila mandel, it's an area group. So the other two people that were doing the chickens, as she was doing the garden. I was doing the nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wendy was doing the garden?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1827597270846317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two people that were in chickens were in a different village. But we could, with our bicycles, we could get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In another village that was a little further off, a couple lived there and she was the nurse. I'm not sure his role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were, we had to go through. And Chandragiri is right at the foothills of Tirumala and Tirumala is a big shrine, a Hindu shrine and a temple. And it's, people go there when they thank for everything. And I mean, it's a very wealthy temple and they, they gave Nehru his weight in gold during the Crimean crisis. And so a lot of people would come up there. We would see a lot of, you know, Indian tourists that would go there or that would come from other states do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But those weren't the people you were working with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4601971939316438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were, we had to go through. And Chandragiri is right at the foothills of Tirumala and Tirumala is a big shrine, a Hindu shrine and a temple. And it's, people go there when they thank for everything. And I mean, it's a very wealthy temple and they, they gave Nehru his weight in gold during the Crimean crisis. And so a lot of people would come up there. We would see a lot of, you know, Indian tourists that would go there or that would come from other states do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But those weren't the people you were working with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but we were, we were working with more than, I guess, the typical villagers. Almost all the people that we worked with spoke some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were working with the temple in some way, doing that. There was a, a government compound that my coworker lived in. She lived there with her husband, and they would have some type of meetings in this compound that we would go to and do that, which is. And then, then I would. She would go out to different mahila mandels, which were women's groups, and just talking about different things, you know, for sanitation, for sewing, for different like that. And I would go with her to these different villages to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what was the, the local government structure or organization with which you worked? I mean, you weren't working on your own. You must have been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6224413265907154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but we were, we were working with more than, I guess, the typical villagers. Almost all the people that we worked with spoke some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were working with the temple in some way, doing that. There was a, a government compound that my coworker lived in. She lived there with her husband, and they would have some type of meetings in this compound that we would go to and do that, which is. And then, then I would. She would go out to different mahila mandels, which were women's groups, and just talking about different things, you know, for sanitation, for sewing, for different like that. And I would go with her to these different villages to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what was the, the local government structure or organization with which you worked? I mean, you weren't working on your own. You must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not, it were, right. It was this, a little area wide development that was the government compound that served that village that we lived in, plus other villages. And it was sort of like we have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a county government?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8027125851007948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were working with the temple in some way, doing that. There was a, a government compound that my coworker lived in. She lived there with her husband, and they would have some type of meetings in this compound that we would go to and do that, which is. And then, then I would. She would go out to different mahila mandels, which were women's groups, and just talking about different things, you know, for sanitation, for sewing, for different like that. And I would go with her to these different villages to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, what was the, the local government structure or organization with which you worked? I mean, you weren't working on your own. You must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not, it were, right. It was this, a little area wide development that was the government compound that served that village that we lived in, plus other villages. And it was sort of like we have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a county government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a county government and county, say, the county extension people that did everything. There wasn't a post office, but these were ones that were supporting the agriculture in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And so you had a counterpart whose work was identical to yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.472856769685589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, her. Her work, her work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was with the nursery school, was with the community groups, the women's groups in the different communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I worked with her doing that. My job was to start the nursery schools and she sort of introduced me to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how in the world do you start nursery schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.747618632983988, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was with the nursery school, was with the community groups, the women's groups in the different communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I worked with her doing that. My job was to start the nursery schools and she sort of introduced me to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how in the world do you start nursery schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they ever had them before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.5344562866721367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yes. One of the, one of the villages had a school, but it wasn't just a nursery school. It was different levels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The grades. And we went there and it was so her. She just added younger children to her school. This was one that we sort of worked with and did that. I've kept in touch with her, you know, to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do that. Another one, what we wanted to open a temporary one. And so we did it in what was a closed temple and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We being you and your counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6598225761384403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do that. Another one, what we wanted to open a temporary one. And so we did it in what was a closed temple and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We being you and your counterpart?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But so to start this. But one of the ways that was, that she said she really accepted me and felt that is because at the beginning of the, when the compound by where the temple was, there was a leper who was guarding it and doing that. And that didn't bother me. And she thought that was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because she, she, they were she was so afraid that American and being so clean and healthy and everything would say, oh, we can't, have to move to remove that person. But I didn't see any need to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a problem with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7331361957093782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But so to start this. But one of the ways that was, that she said she really accepted me and felt that is because at the beginning of the, when the compound by where the temple was, there was a leper who was guarding it and doing that. And that didn't bother me. And she thought that was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because she, she, they were she was so afraid that American and being so clean and healthy and everything would say, oh, we can't, have to move to remove that person. But I didn't see any need to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a problem with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not have a problem with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your first week there, did you have any chance to use your Telugu?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1174153264889164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the cook, of course, would basically, didn't speak much English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we had a cook. But the cook, what the food this cook, this young man had, I don't think he'd ever cooked before. And he didn't last long but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to use, yes, Telugu whatever. Right. My roommate actually, because she had been trained at Williams and I guess because she had more experience and was good with languages, she was, knew more Telugu than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So let's talk about your domestic arrangements. So you had, you and your roommate had your own place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2415725849876849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we had a cook. But the cook, what the food this cook, this young man had, I don't think he'd ever cooked before. And he didn't last long but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to use, yes, Telugu whatever. Right. My roommate actually, because she had been trained at Williams and I guess because she had more experience and was good with languages, she was, knew more Telugu than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So let's talk about your domestic arrangements. So you had, you and your roommate had your own place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We had our own house. It was really quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a steward who would take care of the house as well as cook?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3795250944307609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to use, yes, Telugu whatever. Right. My roommate actually, because she had been trained at Williams and I guess because she had more experience and was good with languages, she was, knew more Telugu than I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So let's talk about your domestic arrangements. So you had, you and your roommate had your own place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We had our own house. It was really quite nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And you had a steward who would take care of the house as well as cook?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So describe, in the first few months, describe, tell me about a typical day. You get up, you had breakfast."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.336237860811802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So yeah, we could, then after, after that, then we could go to the. With my coworker, then I might go with her and just go to a village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That we would walk to the village. I would go with her. My roommate would not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was assigned a male who was harder for her to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And her field is what, your roommate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.970147957217835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was supposed to start the community gardens and she had more trouble doing that, Wendy did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would go out or else, and us because we, we would use this CARE, this upma which was sort of like a grain, a cereal type, that we would give right away and everybody that, they would have in the nursery school. So actually we would end up, maybe I would end up being around there at noon and that would be my lunch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would serve, get hot peppers to, Indian peppers, to make it tasty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So over the first few months, there was one established school that you worked with and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1890532857975944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I would go out or else, and us because we, we would use this CARE, this upma which was sort of like a grain, a cereal type, that we would give right away and everybody that, they would have in the nursery school. So actually we would end up, maybe I would end up being around there at noon and that would be my lunch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would serve, get hot peppers to, Indian peppers, to make it tasty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So over the first few months, there was one established school that you worked with and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was one established school that we worked with that teacher and we had a couple other teachers. No, there were two. One other teacher did something else there. Yeah, I guess maybe one at the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you actually start any nursery schools or work with the community to get one going?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0028165785975234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To get a building, a permanent building?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, I mean, we started the nursery school in what was the temple. I arranged with all the CARE people and everything for a building to be constructed. It was going to be constructed. We got the land, we had everything arranged. It was time for me to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back actually later and I'm not sure it was built. Or if it was built, it was not used for nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, let's, let's talk about, oh, six months into your service. How did you feel about the work you were doing? Did you feel there was something for you to do? It had shape. Could you, did it make sense?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.472613059996942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back actually later and I'm not sure it was built. Or if it was built, it was not used for nursery school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Well, let's, let's talk about, oh, six months into your service. How did you feel about the work you were doing? Did you feel there was something for you to do? It had shape. Could you, did it make sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, I think we understood that we were learning as much as they were, you know, as much as we were teaching them. And so to do that, trying to have an exchange with the other people and to do that. But we did, say every six months, we did then go in. We had conferences. So maybe after six months we all went to Hyderabad and we met with Peace Corps staff with everything there. They, we'd have to do that to keep up our shots, do everything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then we would have a chance to compare experiences with other people and to see exactly what we were able to accomplish. We realized that we were sort of lucky, being in a house by ourself, having electricity and a bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But as far as the work you were doing was, where others making the same kind of progress that you were or were you out ahead of it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7473478444410464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I mean, I think we understood that we were learning as much as they were, you know, as much as we were teaching them. And so to do that, trying to have an exchange with the other people and to do that. But we did, say every six months, we did then go in. We had conferences. So maybe after six months we all went to Hyderabad and we met with Peace Corps staff with everything there. They, we'd have to do that to keep up our shots, do everything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then we would have a chance to compare experiences with other people and to see exactly what we were able to accomplish. We realized that we were sort of lucky, being in a house by ourself, having electricity and a bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But as far as the work you were doing was, where others making the same kind of progress that you were or were you out ahead of it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most, I think most others were not making as much progress. And some people even, I mean, were not accepted at all in the community. I mean, where, you know, didn't want Americans there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who had decided to place you in that village and the people in the other villages?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.052608716045607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then we would have a chance to compare experiences with other people and to see exactly what we were able to accomplish. We realized that we were sort of lucky, being in a house by ourself, having electricity and a bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But as far as the work you were doing was, where others making the same kind of progress that you were or were you out ahead of it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most, I think most others were not making as much progress. And some people even, I mean, were not accepted at all in the community. I mean, where, you know, didn't want Americans there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who had decided to place you in that village and the people in the other villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who assigned them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, Peace Corps couldn't simply say we're sending people into a village, was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3917874622728967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most, I think most others were not making as much progress. And some people even, I mean, were not accepted at all in the community. I mean, where, you know, didn't want Americans there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who had decided to place you in that village and the people in the other villages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who assigned them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, Peace Corps couldn't simply say we're sending people into a village, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I think because this was a government building, I think that there was probably some pressure for them to take some Peace Corps volunteers and they agreed and they found all the other things. And so I think the same thing with some other villagers, they were, they might have been told, you're getting this and you're also getting volunteers with it. Maybe they didn't quite understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, was AID involved with food supplies or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7686527358587742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who assigned them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, Peace Corps couldn't simply say we're sending people into a village, was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I think because this was a government building, I think that there was probably some pressure for them to take some Peace Corps volunteers and they agreed and they found all the other things. And so I think the same thing with some other villagers, they were, they might have been told, you're getting this and you're also getting volunteers with it. Maybe they didn't quite understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, was AID involved with food supplies or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was CARE."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.187391928731971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I think because this was a government building, I think that there was probably some pressure for them to take some Peace Corps volunteers and they agreed and they found all the other things. And so I think the same thing with some other villagers, they were, they might have been told, you're getting this and you're also getting volunteers with it. Maybe they didn't quite understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, was AID involved with food supplies or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was CARE."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE and UNICEF. I don't remember AID at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So after six months, you, you met in Hyderabad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.169619665101199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CARE and UNICEF. I don't remember AID at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So after six months, you, you met in Hyderabad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We met in a nice, nice hotel. And it was like culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren't dressed. What is this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. While you were in the field during the first six months, were you reporting back to a Peace Corps office at all or how did they know what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.744021850112444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We met in a nice, nice hotel. And it was like culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren't dressed. What is this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. While you were in the field during the first six months, were you reporting back to a Peace Corps office at all or how did they know what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, one time the Peace Corps director did come out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Do you remember who it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.382246500124937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren't dressed. What is this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. While you were in the field during the first six months, were you reporting back to a Peace Corps office at all or how did they know what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, one time the Peace Corps director did come out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Do you remember who it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We may have had to fill out some forms in order to get some money. My roommate did that. I don't remember having a lot of contact. I do remember Peace Corps doctors coming out once visiting our site and we had to get shots. And I remember the director coming to our village, which was a big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the director was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.410180864351775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We may have had to fill out some forms in order to get some money. My roommate did that. I don't remember having a lot of contact. I do remember Peace Corps doctors coming out once visiting our site and we had to get shots. And I remember the director coming to our village, which was a big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the director was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joyce Russell was the director in Hyderabad. She came and I, one of the things that she was, that I couldn't believe is, she had this very nice jeep that she was there and she had a driver. But her theory was, you know, she didn't feel that she necessarily had to lock it, which I guess we locked everything. Our basic was in everything not being stolen, but. And she, she, she always wore punjabis. I mean, you know, every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Punjabis are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Punjabis, you know, as opposed to saris. Right. That were made of cotton and, you know, with the white pants on the legs and more like a skirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.011312071501972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Joyce Russell was the director in Hyderabad. She came and I, one of the things that she was, that I couldn't believe is, she had this very nice jeep that she was there and she had a driver. But her theory was, you know, she didn't feel that she necessarily had to lock it, which I guess we locked everything. Our basic was in everything not being stolen, but. And she, she, she always wore punjabis. I mean, you know, every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Punjabis are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Punjabis, you know, as opposed to saris. Right. That were made of cotton and, you know, with the white pants on the legs and more like a skirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then a scarf thrown around the top."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Um. So during the six months, once after the bout of dysentery, your health was okay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.56812452389108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Punjabis, you know, as opposed to saris. Right. That were made of cotton and, you know, with the white pants on the legs and more like a skirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then a scarf thrown around the top."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Um. So during the six months, once after the bout of dysentery, your health was okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it took me a while. I know it took me at least a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have lost a lot of weight and then you slowly began regaining?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.874227807272938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it took me a while. I know it took me at least a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have lost a lot of weight and then you slowly began regaining?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lost the weight in the beginning. A lot of people that are, that I know who are volunteers either lost weight or gained weight. Didn't stay the same. I think my roommate may have gained weight. Actually, in the end I know she lost. But I had lost quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was, I didn't want to lose, keep losing that much. So then I just stabilized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During, during the, when you were first there, were you writing home a lot?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.31855666292584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I wrote, I wrote home a lot. We had, uh, the air mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Air letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air letters that we would write. Yes. And I would write home a lot. I know I had, I started even when I just, you know, when we stopped when in Holland started sending postcards home. I would send those. I always sent postcards home and I, I wrote a lot. Yes. I had a friend that I wrote from college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she didn't tell me afterwards till I came to visit her when she was in Washington. But she said it sounded like something out of National Geographic, which I liked. But yeah, I like to write to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So let me. During your first year, were you able to become personal friends with any of, any Indian counterparts, any people from the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.242840736584267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Air letters that we would write. Yes. And I would write home a lot. I know I had, I started even when I just, you know, when we stopped when in Holland started sending postcards home. I would send those. I always sent postcards home and I, I wrote a lot. Yes. I had a friend that I wrote from college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she didn't tell me afterwards till I came to visit her when she was in Washington. But she said it sounded like something out of National Geographic, which I liked. But yeah, I like to write to people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So let me. During your first year, were you able to become personal friends with any of, any Indian counterparts, any people from the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think my coworker I was the first a friend. Yes. We were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her job? Same as yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.045939241859876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They raised. This was basically a Hindu population. And so they raised pork, which they had learned in the States. And we would sometimes go there and buy pork."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, we didn't, didn't buy beef. It wasn't really sold. And we would go there. We felt at the college, it was better to buy the pork. And also, even though one of our members was Jewish, we would go to the Christian services with the Christian missionaries because of the meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, we were all losing weight, anything, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in the village you were in, were there other non Indians, were there other Americans or the Europeans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.828821379844307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, we didn't, didn't buy beef. It wasn't really sold. And we would go there. We felt at the college, it was better to buy the pork. And also, even though one of our members was Jewish, we would go to the Christian services with the Christian missionaries because of the meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, we were all losing weight, anything, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, in the village you were in, were there other non Indians, were there other Americans or the Europeans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. There was nobody in our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the missionaries you talk about, were they Indian missionaries?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.132813964121134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The missionaries were from Canada."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were Canadian. They had, they were in a village a couple of villages away. We would have to take busses to get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they weren't in our village, but we would see them maybe once a month. They would invite us. We would go into Tirupati, go to the church, or go and visit them. We, there were some Indians, a young couple that their father had some business or something at the, in the town. And they were, they lived in Tirupati, but he was a medical student. And his, I guess I think they might have gotten married. We went to their wedding. They were engaged at first. And they, a lot of the, some of the students would want to come and meet us and become friends and they would like to practice their English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Do you recall, sometimes it's a difficult time being the first Thanksgiving and the first Christmas while you were, when you were in India?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.337658493998432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an old, it was definitely an old palace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was. And the men went out hunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were supposed to get the food for us to have for Thanksgiving. We did not have a lot of food that Thanksgiving, but we went there and stayed in this old palace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are the Peace Corps people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.058837646911645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were supposed to get the food for us to have for Thanksgiving. We did not have a lot of food that Thanksgiving, but we went there and stayed in this old palace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these are the Peace Corps people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were the Peace Corps people, but the Indians were the ones that were taking them with them on hunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn't, you know"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren't very successful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.06537516323516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were the Peace Corps people, but the Indians were the ones that were taking them with them on hunting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn't, you know"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren't very successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "India has a different concept than we do of time. You don't have to do this. We didn't have deadlines. It becomes dark. You don't have food yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was a different Thanksgiving."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.1837501813724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn't, you know"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren't very successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "India has a different concept than we do of time. You don't have to do this. We didn't have deadlines. It becomes dark. You don't have food yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it was a different Thanksgiving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a different Thanksgiving, yes. And I remember that one Christmas, yes, walking on the white sand instead of white snow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. During your first year, I mean, you didn't spend all your time on the job. You know, at some point you come home from work, you had weekends. How did you spend your?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.128601071841425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, weekends, I don't know that we really distinguish much with weekends, you know, then the rest of the week. But you're right, what we thought was in the evening was ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That the day is sort of when we were working, doing all that. On Sunday mornings I do remember in town, we would go into Tirupati and there would be English movies. Or sometimes English movies, but sometimes even Telugu movies, but for a Hindi movie. But we would always go to the cinema."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to a lot of cinemas. We, it helped with the language, doing that. And they would have popcorn. No butter, pepper on the popcorn, but it was popcorn. So we would, we would, we would go to movies. Yes. And going into Tirupati, going to eat in a restaurant or eating food off there and, of course, talking like to the missionaries or to some of the friends that we'd met, going to their house was something that we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the restaurants were, would serve good food."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.031778968712693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That the day is sort of when we were working, doing all that. On Sunday mornings I do remember in town, we would go into Tirupati and there would be English movies. Or sometimes English movies, but sometimes even Telugu movies, but for a Hindi movie. But we would always go to the cinema."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to a lot of cinemas. We, it helped with the language, doing that. And they would have popcorn. No butter, pepper on the popcorn, but it was popcorn. So we would, we would, we would go to movies. Yes. And going into Tirupati, going to eat in a restaurant or eating food off there and, of course, talking like to the missionaries or to some of the friends that we'd met, going to their house was something that we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the restaurants were, would serve good food."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the ones in Tripathi were serving pretty good food. It was Indian food and there were separate restaurants that were. Most of the best restaurants were vegetarian because the temple, the Hindus were very, the good vegetarian foods with the different vegetables and the rice was always good. You could go in the, the ones that served meat were not as nice, the restaurants. They would serve meat and just chapati but you, that's all you would get, or maybe whatever there. So most, I didn't much go into restaurants that served meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So coming on to the end of the first year, usually this you're entitled to some leave time, some kind of break, and sometimes a time of reflecting about, well, after a year, what have I accomplished? And as I look to my second year, what, what do I want to do before I go home? Do you remember that time and what you did on vacation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.739489359415779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and bought some. I was supposed to go with other friends and something happened that we didn't connect. It didn't work out. So I ended up by myself. But I, I met other Peace Corps volunteers who were traveling, you know, and so I'd be with these other friends at this place and someone else at this place or anything doing that. But yes, I went to Kashmir, went to Delhi, went to the Taj Mahal, went to Calcutta. Which Calcutta was really an eye opener, was quite different because it was, I mean, there were just so many people were in Calcutta and there was so much poverty and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Benares and Calcutta was really, you know, it was just, there were, there are fewer people in the south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there, you know, the pace maybe was a little slower and they were shorter. It just looked like, I mean, Calcutta was almost like, ooh, you were afraid to walk around, to do anything. But then and then just coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your time, your travels, and in your time in the village, did you have any problems of thievery or, you know, where you felt endangered or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.377210399350865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, Benares and Calcutta was really, you know, it was just, there were, there are fewer people in the south."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there, you know, the pace maybe was a little slower and they were shorter. It just looked like, I mean, Calcutta was almost like, ooh, you were afraid to walk around, to do anything. But then and then just coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during your time, your travels, and in your time in the village, did you have any problems of thievery or, you know, where you felt endangered or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some things were lost. I guess the only time. Well, Indians will even tell you now, if you can go, you're going to play with them or do anything. It's like, so the last bus leaving from Tirupati going to Chandigarh, everybody that wanted to get on couldn't go on it. Well, when we were still new, just there, we always got out of the bus. But after we'd been there for a while, forget it. They weren't nice to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No special treatment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.527420246112178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some things were lost. I guess the only time. Well, Indians will even tell you now, if you can go, you're going to play with them or do anything. It's like, so the last bus leaving from Tirupati going to Chandigarh, everybody that wanted to get on couldn't go on it. Well, when we were still new, just there, we always got out of the bus. But after we'd been there for a while, forget it. They weren't nice to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No special treatment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to walk seven miles back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the time that I guess I was most afraid, and I was with some other volunteers, I was just supporting them. But there were just crowds of people that were just pushing and shoving in some of the festivals that we went to, like in Bangalore. And so there, yeah. And walking the streets at night, we did sort of feel danger, but also felt somewhat secure just because you were bigger than most of the other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Did you encounter people who expressed anti- American feelings or said, what are you doing here and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.030466940124642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to walk seven miles back home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the time that I guess I was most afraid, and I was with some other volunteers, I was just supporting them. But there were just crowds of people that were just pushing and shoving in some of the festivals that we went to, like in Bangalore. And so there, yeah. And walking the streets at night, we did sort of feel danger, but also felt somewhat secure just because you were bigger than most of the other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right. Did you encounter people who expressed anti- American feelings or said, what are you doing here and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were other people that had that. We didn't have as much anti-American feelings where we were in the community. Talking about being afraid. I guess the only thing is just being young and female. But anyway, my roommate and I, once there was this man who was, uh, I forget his title. But anyway, he was the government liaison over all of our area. He had some high powered anything and he. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about the time you and your roommate were invited by this gentleman?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.016133380986113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was, more than anything else, more than anything verbal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or, uh, you know, I never, nobody expressed any anti-American or really discussed anything. But we did see it much more in the north. And that's, you know, it was, when I was there, it was before Bangladesh was ever formed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you had East Pakistan and West Pakistan and everything. So there was a lot more people like in the south that you had and they accepted, that's where Christianity was still strong. They accepted that and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the south?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.612510346896435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you had East Pakistan and West Pakistan and everything. So there was a lot more people like in the south that you had and they accepted, that's where Christianity was still strong. They accepted that and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the south?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And if you were converted or not converted, you know, it was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you had the Hindus, you know, the religion was very strong. And in our village we also had Muslims and we went to one of their ceremonies too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So one, one of the reasons some people join Peace Corps, or one of the things about Peace Corps service, is a chance to get to know another culture and to get to know another culture means a lot of different things. And do you recall having a sense that you were learning about India or becoming part of it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9027892743293724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And if you were converted or not converted, you know, it was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you had the Hindus, you know, the religion was very strong. And in our village we also had Muslims and we went to one of their ceremonies too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So one, one of the reasons some people join Peace Corps, or one of the things about Peace Corps service, is a chance to get to know another culture and to get to know another culture means a lot of different things. And do you recall having a sense that you were learning about India or becoming part of it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. Well, I think, I think we ended up, you know, we had a temple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You keep saying we, is it you and your roommate for the most part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.225321415921525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you had the Hindus, you know, the religion was very strong. And in our village we also had Muslims and we went to one of their ceremonies too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So one, one of the reasons some people join Peace Corps, or one of the things about Peace Corps service, is a chance to get to know another culture and to get to know another culture means a lot of different things. And do you recall having a sense that you were learning about India or becoming part of it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. Well, I think, I think we ended up, you know, we had a temple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You keep saying we, is it you and your roommate for the most part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You pretty much operated together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6808249875466732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wendy Carter and I. Yeah, we would. And I guess Steve and there were a couple of, uh, some of the other. We'd usually. I guess we did things. I don't usually remember going just by myself, even into town. I'd either go with Wendy or with Steve, and I forget the name of the other guy that lived there. So someone, we would usually go biking or go to something together. Maybe the three of us, or with other people that lived there. Yes. I mean, it wasn't many individual things, but even to talk to. But at the end, we lived almost on the street. At the end of our street was the temple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we would go to that and really felt, you know, and the people, you know, that brought us the milk every day. And we had our own. They had given us the yogurt culture, we had our yogurt every day. And we felt good in developing, even becoming. And we were eating rice and the yogurt and, you know, the vegetarian meal, this would be coming in, doing that. The other thing we did is we would chew paan after our meals, which included betel nut, which of course can turn your teeth red."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, I even brought some betel nut home with me. I mean, you become sort of addicted to it but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes people are able to make a friend who becomes kind of an informant or a mentor about the other culture. And so will explain what a burial or a birth or a marriage or. Did you have, were you able to get someone who could explain what was going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.075092577218115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, I even brought some betel nut home with me. I mean, you become sort of addicted to it but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes people are able to make a friend who becomes kind of an informant or a mentor about the other culture. And so will explain what a burial or a birth or a marriage or. Did you have, were you able to get someone who could explain what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think, I think my coworker, she would do that. She, she had, she was Indian and she was a Christian. And she would but she still had family that were Hindus and would tell about the custom and everything. And or when we would go with some of the women's clubs, either she would try to explain or sometimes the other people would try to explain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and some of the other, uh, the same, we would meet with the same people in the villages, yes. And they would always like to, I mean, they would be. They wanted us to learn about their culture and they would be sharing their food or sharing this or giving us experience and teaching us. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your traveling around, it was you and Wendy who went to places?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3056584191312384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think, I think my coworker, she would do that. She, she had, she was Indian and she was a Christian. And she would but she still had family that were Hindus and would tell about the custom and everything. And or when we would go with some of the women's clubs, either she would try to explain or sometimes the other people would try to explain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and some of the other, uh, the same, we would meet with the same people in the villages, yes. And they would always like to, I mean, they would be. They wanted us to learn about their culture and they would be sharing their food or sharing this or giving us experience and teaching us. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your traveling around, it was you and Wendy who went to places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, either, yes, with Wendy, sometimes with Steve or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's now talk about going into the second year. In effect, your project was to create these, the schools, nursery schools. Did you project some kind of goal or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.561842687923598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and some of the other, uh, the same, we would meet with the same people in the villages, yes. And they would always like to, I mean, they would be. They wanted us to learn about their culture and they would be sharing their food or sharing this or giving us experience and teaching us. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your traveling around, it was you and Wendy who went to places?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, either, yes, with Wendy, sometimes with Steve or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's now talk about going into the second year. In effect, your project was to create these, the schools, nursery schools. Did you project some kind of goal or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what my goal would have been to have actually got a new permanent building and got the school started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.16276875052296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what my goal would have been to have actually got a new permanent building and got the school started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just my goal. Yes. If you could just get that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So before I left, I never did see the school completed, but we had made all the arrangements that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what did you do to make the school happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5141875005810665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just my goal. Yes. If you could just get that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So before I left, I never did see the school completed, but we had made all the arrangements that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what did you do to make the school happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, working with the CARE people, then we would do that, and then working with the government, Indian government, villages there. And it was on that property that the school was going to be built. So I felt good that everything was coming together and doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And were you working with people in the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.904652778423407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So before I left, I never did see the school completed, but we had made all the arrangements that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what did you do to make the school happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, working with the CARE people, then we would do that, and then working with the government, Indian government, villages there. And it was on that property that the school was going to be built. So I felt good that everything was coming together and doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And were you working with people in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in the community would you work with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.338503087137119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, working with the CARE people, then we would do that, and then working with the government, Indian government, villages there. And it was on that property that the school was going to be built. So I felt good that everything was coming together and doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And were you working with people in the community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who in the community would you work with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically the community that we worked with were these government workers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.951307389762851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that they had this little government compound and that's where the school was going to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was the government workers. And they, of course, it was easier to work with them because that was their job, to work with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also they spoke some English. And they had to do all that. So yeah, we worked with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're coming to the end of your tour. What was your sense of what you had accomplished? Were you satisfied, dissatisfied? I mean, you had just spent 16 months or more of your life. Did you have any sense of what it was about or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.390341544180945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was the government workers. And they, of course, it was easier to work with them because that was their job, to work with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also they spoke some English. And they had to do all that. So yeah, we worked with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're coming to the end of your tour. What was your sense of what you had accomplished? Were you satisfied, dissatisfied? I mean, you had just spent 16 months or more of your life. Did you have any sense of what it was about or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. I had, I felt good about what I had done, everything. I did, uh, my time would have been up I guess in June, at the end of July. I spent one month afterwards in helping Peace Corps staff in Bangalore. And we, I went around with another Peace Corps staff person, and they were trying to find places where female volunteers could come, because at that time they were then getting more female volunteers. Or more females who were volunteering and they were trying to get places that were situated for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone on Peace Corps staff must have considered you a very competent volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.878157271312161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also they spoke some English. And they had to do all that. So yeah, we worked with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're coming to the end of your tour. What was your sense of what you had accomplished? Were you satisfied, dissatisfied? I mean, you had just spent 16 months or more of your life. Did you have any sense of what it was about or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. I had, I felt good about what I had done, everything. I did, uh, my time would have been up I guess in June, at the end of July. I spent one month afterwards in helping Peace Corps staff in Bangalore. And we, I went around with another Peace Corps staff person, and they were trying to find places where female volunteers could come, because at that time they were then getting more female volunteers. Or more females who were volunteering and they were trying to get places that were situated for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone on Peace Corps staff must have considered you a very competent volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I could have stayed longer, but I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so at the end of your tour, you spent the extra month helping Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4201747459024014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. I had, I felt good about what I had done, everything. I did, uh, my time would have been up I guess in June, at the end of July. I spent one month afterwards in helping Peace Corps staff in Bangalore. And we, I went around with another Peace Corps staff person, and they were trying to find places where female volunteers could come, because at that time they were then getting more female volunteers. Or more females who were volunteering and they were trying to get places that were situated for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So someone on Peace Corps staff must have considered you a very competent volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I could have stayed longer, but I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so at the end of your tour, you spent the extra month helping Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I got paid for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were content to leave the village and feel that, with the feeling that you had accomplished something or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.022416384336001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I could have stayed longer, but I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And so at the end of your tour, you spent the extra month helping Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I got paid for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were content to leave the village and feel that, with the feeling that you had accomplished something or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left feeling that I had accomplished something. Yes. One, because I really felt the staff, the Indian staff that we worked with in the government compound, understood what we were doing and were doing good job themselves. And so we were all working together in doing, you know, doing that with a purpose. And so we didn't feel like they were fighting them, but still didn't feel like I needed to be there. I still felt like it was their job. It was their country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During the second year, had additional volunteers come to the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.435081955970371, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left feeling that I had accomplished something. Yes. One, because I really felt the staff, the Indian staff that we worked with in the government compound, understood what we were doing and were doing good job themselves. And so we were all working together in doing, you know, doing that with a purpose. And so we didn't feel like they were fighting them, but still didn't feel like I needed to be there. I still felt like it was their job. It was their country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During the second year, had additional volunteers come to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our village. Two additional village volunteers came to Tirupati. And before that, no volunteers had been in Tirupati, even though that was a bigger town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, we had a few problems with them. They were not interested in really working. They, they were seeing how much they could learn about India or anything, but they were two self-proclaimed people that were avoiding the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, leaving. As you were leaving, were there plans to be, for you to be replaced? Were other volunteers going to come to the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.261202173300411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in our village. Two additional village volunteers came to Tirupati. And before that, no volunteers had been in Tirupati, even though that was a bigger town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, we had a few problems with them. They were not interested in really working. They, they were seeing how much they could learn about India or anything, but they were two self-proclaimed people that were avoiding the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, leaving. As you were leaving, were there plans to be, for you to be replaced? Were other volunteers going to come to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no other villagers were coming to the village. We, no. We were supposed to work with the community and doing that and the other volunteers were in Tirupati working. So that was in our immediate vicinity, but they were not doing the same project we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So as of the coming to the end of your Peace Corps service, what were your plans at that point? What did you feel you were going to do next?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.179113525889345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, we had a few problems with them. They were not interested in really working. They, they were seeing how much they could learn about India or anything, but they were two self-proclaimed people that were avoiding the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, leaving. As you were leaving, were there plans to be, for you to be replaced? Were other volunteers going to come to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no other villagers were coming to the village. We, no. We were supposed to work with the community and doing that and the other volunteers were in Tirupati working. So that was in our immediate vicinity, but they were not doing the same project we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So as of the coming to the end of your Peace Corps service, what were your plans at that point? What did you feel you were going to do next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. I didn't know, I guess, what I thought I was going to do next. But I thought it was time to go back to the States and see, you know, pursue something. Otherwise, I might have stayed longer working at Peace Corps in India, which might have been a good idea. It was an option for me. But at that time I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.199015028765938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no other villagers were coming to the village. We, no. We were supposed to work with the community and doing that and the other volunteers were in Tirupati working. So that was in our immediate vicinity, but they were not doing the same project we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So as of the coming to the end of your Peace Corps service, what were your plans at that point? What did you feel you were going to do next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. I didn't know, I guess, what I thought I was going to do next. But I thought it was time to go back to the States and see, you know, pursue something. Otherwise, I might have stayed longer working at Peace Corps in India, which might have been a good idea. It was an option for me. But at that time I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not something I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you can think in terms of '68 when you're coming back. Uh. What do you feel, what do you think was the impact of being in the Peace Corps had had on you as of that moment? That may have, may be different later."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.332238920851042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. I didn't know, I guess, what I thought I was going to do next. But I thought it was time to go back to the States and see, you know, pursue something. Otherwise, I might have stayed longer working at Peace Corps in India, which might have been a good idea. It was an option for me. But at that time I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not something I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you can think in terms of '68 when you're coming back. Uh. What do you feel, what do you think was the impact of being in the Peace Corps had had on you as of that moment? That may have, may be different later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, I think what the Peace Corps really opened my eyes just to possibilities maybe that I could do, or even just opened my eyes to what more than what I had thought the United States was, you know, and then helping other. I mean, I had, before I had gone to the Peace Corps, one of the things I had thought about was, you know, maybe going just in a country, not really being a missionary, but sort of maybe teaching in another country. And I really felt like I had done some good, you know, in India. But I also felt that I certainly had learned a lot in what I could do and what I could accomplish. I almost felt like I had spent two years in graduate school and learned so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they paid you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.591376578723379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not something I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if you can think in terms of '68 when you're coming back. Uh. What do you feel, what do you think was the impact of being in the Peace Corps had had on you as of that moment? That may have, may be different later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think, I think what the Peace Corps really opened my eyes just to possibilities maybe that I could do, or even just opened my eyes to what more than what I had thought the United States was, you know, and then helping other. I mean, I had, before I had gone to the Peace Corps, one of the things I had thought about was, you know, maybe going just in a country, not really being a missionary, but sort of maybe teaching in another country. And I really felt like I had done some good, you know, in India. But I also felt that I certainly had learned a lot in what I could do and what I could accomplish. I almost felt like I had spent two years in graduate school and learned so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they paid you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. Did you come straight home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.911797506634565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I went to, I think it was Austria, Vienna."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a week. And I went to Berlin for a week. I went to Athens, I went to Paris and London and home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But so I spent a week in these different places and that's what I had. I mean, that's the way I came home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk about your homecoming and how you reacted to being back and how people dealt with you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.02499238932261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't spend a whole lot of time home, but, uh, and the one, I did then go to Saint Paul, Minneapolis. I stayed with some friends and then I got a job just, it was over Christmas time, then just working in a department store. But one of my college friends was teaching and I went to her class and did give a talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the Peace Corps. And one of the things is because the same picture that had been used in The New York Times was picked up in Read magazine, which is a little."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For children that you have to read. And so they liked it because I came and they could see that was my picture and I got to speak to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were a minor celebrity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.565147310456256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, that. So I spoke there. But otherwise, I think my parents were just saying, when is she getting a job or doing all that? But I, when I got, I finally got back to the States and then decided, hey, I kind of liked it overseas. Why is this rush to come back, you know, and do anything? And then I went back to Hamline to the placement service there, and saw what was available. And one of the openings there was to go to, uh, to work with the Red Cross overseas in the Red Cross recreation program. You could go to Vietnam or Korea. And so I responded to that. And over Thanksgiving, I went to Saint Louis for an interview. And I had also applied for the Teacher Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I was accepted in Teacher Corps at University of Wisconsin at Madison, at Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Madison, Milwaukee, one of the two. And, uh, and I was accepted with the Red Cross to go to Vietnam. So that was a big decision. But then I just decided, yes, I would go with the Red Cross to Vietnam instead of going into Teacher Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any conviction, a special conviction about the idea of going to Vietnam?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.294608122729173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I was accepted in Teacher Corps at University of Wisconsin at Madison, at Milwaukee."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Madison, Milwaukee, one of the two. And, uh, and I was accepted with the Red Cross to go to Vietnam. So that was a big decision. But then I just decided, yes, I would go with the Red Cross to Vietnam instead of going into Teacher Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any conviction, a special conviction about the idea of going to Vietnam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think the most, the biggest thing about going to Vietnam was, one, it was warm. I liked being in a warm country. It was kind of neat, being from Minnesota. And the other thing is, at that time, in '68 there was just, when I had been a Peace Corps volunteer, just talking then with other volunteers and everything. We just spent a lot of time talking about India and with the Indians and about there and what is America doing in Vietnam? And I just thought I would like to go and see what, see for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, great. And you had some confidence in going to another country because you had been in the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.882897914143525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Madison, Milwaukee, one of the two. And, uh, and I was accepted with the Red Cross to go to Vietnam. So that was a big decision. But then I just decided, yes, I would go with the Red Cross to Vietnam instead of going into Teacher Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any conviction, a special conviction about the idea of going to Vietnam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think the most, the biggest thing about going to Vietnam was, one, it was warm. I liked being in a warm country. It was kind of neat, being from Minnesota. And the other thing is, at that time, in '68 there was just, when I had been a Peace Corps volunteer, just talking then with other volunteers and everything. We just spent a lot of time talking about India and with the Indians and about there and what is America doing in Vietnam? And I just thought I would like to go and see what, see for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, great. And you had some confidence in going to another country because you had been in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Oh, yes. Right. I didn't, I had no qualms about that. And I just, I mean, at that time, you still, in order to do the Red Cross recreation program, you had to be between ages of 22 to 24, college graduate, never been married. And I was just 24. I was ready. I had to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another thing is some people are able to stay in touch with the, some of the people they worked with or the village they worked with and through the years. Have you been able to maintain any contact?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 5.040614708819167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Oh, yes. Right. I didn't, I had no qualms about that. And I just, I mean, at that time, you still, in order to do the Red Cross recreation program, you had to be between ages of 22 to 24, college graduate, never been married. And I was just 24. I was ready. I had to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Another thing is some people are able to stay in touch with the, some of the people they worked with or the village they worked with and through the years. Have you been able to maintain any contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, I corresponded with the man we had worked with in another village for a long time and then he ended up dying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was fairly young, but his daughter then started corresponding with me. So in 1989, at Christmas time, when I went back to India and I was her guest and so she, at her 25th birthday. I mean, I was there when I was 24. At her 25th birthday party, I was there and I, she showed me pictures. I was there at her first birthday party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1562385653546297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, I corresponded with the man we had worked with in another village for a long time and then he ended up dying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was fairly young, but his daughter then started corresponding with me. So in 1989, at Christmas time, when I went back to India and I was her guest and so she, at her 25th birthday. I mean, I was there when I was 24. At her 25th birthday party, I was there and I, she showed me pictures. I was there at her first birthday party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so she showed me around Madras, these other relatives that were there, we went back to the village with her, so that was really nice. And then a couple of years ago, I received some candles that I still have here and I, they were given to me by, the one, my coworker in India. And she said she bought those for me right before I left, but somehow or she couldn't give them to me and she never had my address before that. Or somehow they got mixed up or something and it was like out of the blue. I mean, just last year. It was just something. Yeah. So I do, and I send Christmas cards just a couple now to my, the one work teacher that was in there and she also went back to village when I went to Bangalore, when I went there in '89, Christmas time, came back in '90."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And do you recall your reaction in going back to the village where you had worked? I mean, this is, what, almost 20 years later?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4274550189563326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so she showed me around Madras, these other relatives that were there, we went back to the village with her, so that was really nice. And then a couple of years ago, I received some candles that I still have here and I, they were given to me by, the one, my coworker in India. And she said she bought those for me right before I left, but somehow or she couldn't give them to me and she never had my address before that. Or somehow they got mixed up or something and it was like out of the blue. I mean, just last year. It was just something. Yeah. So I do, and I send Christmas cards just a couple now to my, the one work teacher that was in there and she also went back to village when I went to Bangalore, when I went there in '89, Christmas time, came back in '90."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And do you recall your reaction in going back to the village where you had worked? I mean, this is, what, almost 20 years later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was so different. I went to a different village, which we ended up going, walking to. The one that we did with. There were televisions there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were sinks there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you have any sense that what you had done had had some impact on the development of the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4174076088610006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My roommate was named Wendy Cutter. And they always said, Wendy Cutter, Wendy Cutter, Wendy Cutter. And when I went back, they still remembered Wendy Cutter. But nobody knew, you know, even my name, maybe much less Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do, I did go to this one teacher that I went and kept in touch with. I did go with her class. She was still at the same school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was in school before we came. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um. Uh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9844538381000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she was in school before we came. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um. Uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also the population of India had just doubled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was just so crowded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. When did, when did Peace Corps come out of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2049487090000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also the population of India had just doubled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was just so crowded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. When did, when did Peace Corps come out of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps left India, I think it was in '72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So it wasn't too long after you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0246210000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, right. We were there in '66, '68. Right. There was, there were almost too many volunteers there. 1,500. And they just flooded the country. Most good, maybe some not so good. But I think India also has become much less a third world country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was a second world country. I mean, think of all the Indians that are coming here, well-educated engineers, you know, living here. They just, there was no need for it. That's why we left India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at the end of the second two years, was there a termination conference where your group came back together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3606900000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, right. We were there in '66, '68. Right. There was, there were almost too many volunteers there. 1,500. And they just flooded the country. Most good, maybe some not so good. But I think India also has become much less a third world country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it was a second world country. I mean, think of all the Indians that are coming here, well-educated engineers, you know, living here. They just, there was no need for it. That's why we left India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at the end of the second two years, was there a termination conference where your group came back together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a termination conference, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall it at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a termination conference, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall it at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember we all got together in Hyderabad and maybe it was more social than anything. The biggest thing I remember is that I talked to the Peace Corps physician and had my ears pierced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right before I left India. And he just thought, he said, oh, they'd get dirty. You don't want to do this. I said, I don't have anything else to do, I'll keep my ears clean. So but I had bought some earrings, you know, I knew there were some nice gold earrings in India I wanted to buy, and they all had to have with pierced ears."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you finally."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.609999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember we all got together in Hyderabad and maybe it was more social than anything. The biggest thing I remember is that I talked to the Peace Corps physician and had my ears pierced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right before I left India. And he just thought, he said, oh, they'd get dirty. You don't want to do this. I said, I don't have anything else to do, I'll keep my ears clean. So but I had bought some earrings, you know, I knew there were some nice gold earrings in India I wanted to buy, and they all had to have with pierced ears."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you finally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the Peace Corps doctor. Yeah. Uh, anything else you want to mention about your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00234:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I. I did work, like I said, for one, you know, just one extra month in Bangalore. I maybe could have stayed longer, maybe would have wished to. I, when I did come back after Vietnam, I came back and I worked for VISTA recruitment and then for Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps and VISTA recruiting. So I recruited around in the Southeast and I was certainly very up about my experience and really felt like, you know, it was easy to talk to people and doing that. One of the big things was we had a big Peter Max poster. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Peter Max actually came to Baltimore Inner Harbor, and I have his autograph. He is still going strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that's great. That's great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 60.58585053422237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The others—GT-3, GT-4—were also like 40 miles away. So we knew it was a problem. I told my supervisor. I said, “I put their numbers in and I get where it hits. I’ve got the right logic in there.” That’s why on GT-8 they took my numbers, because [our ACR team] knew from all the postflights that they were right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that continue after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They fixed the RTCC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fixed theirs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They finally went back and fixed [the Gemini entry program]. I guess at some point they didn’t want to think that they were wrong, but that was a problem that they had. The problem was, like I said, that it was months [I was told] before a flight that they would have to shut everything down and just stay where they were. That was the big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the advantage of being able to work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 67.31761170469152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They fixed the RTCC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fixed theirs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They finally went back and fixed [the Gemini entry program]. I guess at some point they didn’t want to think that they were wrong, but that was a problem that they had. The problem was, like I said, that it was months [I was told] before a flight that they would have to shut everything down and just stay where they were. That was the big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the advantage of being able to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. All of us. The rendezvous guys and everything. Eventually the rendezvous program got [checked out in] the RTCC [I was told]. Then the rendezvous was done from the RTCC, then we checked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a small group that worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 62.575124116323906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They finally went back and fixed [the Gemini entry program]. I guess at some point they didn’t want to think that they were wrong, but that was a problem that they had. The problem was, like I said, that it was months [I was told] before a flight that they would have to shut everything down and just stay where they were. That was the big problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the advantage of being able to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. All of us. The rendezvous guys and everything. Eventually the rendezvous program got [checked out in] the RTCC [I was told]. Then the rendezvous was done from the RTCC, then we checked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a small group that worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had three shifts. For each one I trained a couple of guys to run my program. I eventually became an ACR chief also, then I couldn’t run it, but I had people running the program. There were some contractors that would come in because they had other special functions.\\n\\n I had a landmark star sighting program that I developed with the help of a contractor. I gave the requirements. I called it AGOP, which is Apollo Generalized Optical Pointing. We computed pointing programs for telescopes around the world. Well, actually there were just four that I remember. One was Jodrell [Bank Observatory] in [Lower Withington, Cheshire, England]. There was one in California and one in Denver [Colorado], then our telescope that we had here at NASA. So I think I remember it was four.\\n\\n All of those came from my program; all the pointing. In fact sometimes we’d get out when we had time. We’d go to our telescope here and look at the spacecraft on the way to the Moon. It was rotating. We could see where the Sun would flash. Every time it went by the Sun hit it and then it would flash. So we knew it was rotating. They call that the barbecue mode. [The rotation allowed the vehicle’s outside surface to maintain the same temperature throughout.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mode. What an interesting insight, you developed the program to be able to go do that [provide pointing angles]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.062931721517444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we finally got the four-function calculators. We also had a different calculator at the beginning. It was electromechanical. It would go round and round and round and it would go ka-chunk ka-chunk ka-chunk. You’d get one number at a time come out. I didn’t trust those. Didn’t trust it. Anything mechanical I didn’t trust. I trusted my slide rule better than one of those mechanical calculators, but the thing about it is when I was working with the Texas Highway Department that’s what we used.\\n\\n I have a story on that. The engineer I was working with, he went on vacation, and his supervisor came over when he was gone. He said, “Fix this problem that we got.” So I redid all his design on one of the highways, which was on Highway 281, the portion down there in Hidalgo County. I redid the whole thing. When he came back he said, “Oh. Thank you.” [He was an aeronautical engineer, not a civil engineer.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we should have kept you in the Highway Department. They could use you now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was only like a one- or two-year student at Pan American College, but I fixed it all up. The other highway I worked on was the one that goes to Padre Island, Highway 100. I always remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made lots of people happy going there, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What we did, we moved the highway a little off to make it bigger. We did surveying, so I was real happy about that. I learned a lot in the surveying. I learned how to design the highways. I also know that when they say going around a curve [for example] you can go only 50 miles an hour, we built a pad like 15 miles on that. So when I go around the [curve], it says you can only go [a certain speed], I know you got a 15-mile pad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might not want to share that secret with everybody. Speaking of design, you mentioned earlier that you designed trajectories."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.625479690574934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was only like a one- or two-year student at Pan American College, but I fixed it all up. The other highway I worked on was the one that goes to Padre Island, Highway 100. I always remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made lots of people happy going there, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What we did, we moved the highway a little off to make it bigger. We did surveying, so I was real happy about that. I learned a lot in the surveying. I learned how to design the highways. I also know that when they say going around a curve [for example] you can go only 50 miles an hour, we built a pad like 15 miles on that. So when I go around the [curve], it says you can only go [a certain speed], I know you got a 15-mile pad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might not want to share that secret with everybody. Speaking of design, you mentioned earlier that you designed trajectories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the prelaunch trajectories [for our abort studies and entry studies]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were talking also about the tools. Can you give us an idea of the evolution of the technology and how that affected the different areas that you worked in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.44529067482079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just was curious, talking about NORAD."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All I know is when I came to work for NASA they gave me a secret clearance, but I don’t know whether they would have to redo my top secret. I also have a funny story on that. When they were checking me, when I was in the Army, to get my clearance, I had a good friend that had a welding shop down in The Valley. Well, his father had the welding shop, and he was working there. He had the helmet for welding, and he had a swastika on there. He said when they came to check, “I had the swastika [helmet] on.” That’s when I got my clearance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In spite of your friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and I built a semirobot. We could make his head move and his arms and his hands. We had like a flipper thing [for the “hands”]. We had it at a science show when we were at Pan American College. I got an offer from some company [after that]. They were doing robotics. I turned them down too.\\n\\n We had our science show in the basketball court of the field house. We hid up in the scoreboard area [where we had our controls]. We had a robot, and all the kids would come and we had voice connection. We could hear them and we could answer their questions through a speaker in his chest. We used “cellsyns” to move the head, arms, and hands. [They were electrical motors that were synchronized to duplicate movements in our controls.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’re probably kids today talking about, “We had this robot, it was talking to us.” They still don’t know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.60587852757865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All I know is when I came to work for NASA they gave me a secret clearance, but I don’t know whether they would have to redo my top secret. I also have a funny story on that. When they were checking me, when I was in the Army, to get my clearance, I had a good friend that had a welding shop down in The Valley. Well, his father had the welding shop, and he was working there. He had the helmet for welding, and he had a swastika on there. He said when they came to check, “I had the swastika [helmet] on.” That’s when I got my clearance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In spite of your friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and I built a semirobot. We could make his head move and his arms and his hands. We had like a flipper thing [for the “hands”]. We had it at a science show when we were at Pan American College. I got an offer from some company [after that]. They were doing robotics. I turned them down too.\\n\\n We had our science show in the basketball court of the field house. We hid up in the scoreboard area [where we had our controls]. We had a robot, and all the kids would come and we had voice connection. We could hear them and we could answer their questions through a speaker in his chest. We used “cellsyns” to move the head, arms, and hands. [They were electrical motors that were synchronized to duplicate movements in our controls.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’re probably kids today talking about, “We had this robot, it was talking to us.” They still don’t know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I designed it and my friend built it because he was a welder. [I did help him build it when I had time.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He could make it work. That’s a good combination."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 57.33986503064295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and I built a semirobot. We could make his head move and his arms and his hands. We had like a flipper thing [for the “hands”]. We had it at a science show when we were at Pan American College. I got an offer from some company [after that]. They were doing robotics. I turned them down too.\\n\\n We had our science show in the basketball court of the field house. We hid up in the scoreboard area [where we had our controls]. We had a robot, and all the kids would come and we had voice connection. We could hear them and we could answer their questions through a speaker in his chest. We used “cellsyns” to move the head, arms, and hands. [They were electrical motors that were synchronized to duplicate movements in our controls.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’re probably kids today talking about, “We had this robot, it was talking to us.” They still don’t know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I designed it and my friend built it because he was a welder. [I did help him build it when I had time.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He could make it work. That’s a good combination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but he wound up getting in all the pictures [except one]. He got in the newspaper. He just happened to be there when they came. He was finishing up. He got in all the pictures that went in the newspaper. [We had a lot of fun with the kids also.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got to work on Apollo 11, so that’s a good tradeoff. You mentioned a while ago too about [Apollo] 13, about how important it was. Were you part [of that mission?]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 55.93318336738105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I designed it and my friend built it because he was a welder. [I did help him build it when I had time.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He could make it work. That’s a good combination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but he wound up getting in all the pictures [except one]. He got in the newspaper. He just happened to be there when they came. He was finishing up. He got in all the pictures that went in the newspaper. [We had a lot of fun with the kids also.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got to work on Apollo 11, so that’s a good tradeoff. You mentioned a while ago too about [Apollo] 13, about how important it was. Were you part [of that mission?]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not work on 13. Apollo 11 was the last Apollo flight I worked on, because they took a group of us to work on the Space Shuttle. I worked on the Space Shuttle aborts, which is mainly the Return to Launch Site [RTLS] and the landings in Africa [Transoceanic Abort Landing (TAL)]. We did the Abort to Orbit [ATO], where something happens, you can still go into orbit, but then the ones that you land in Spain or land in Africa I remember. So that’s mainly what I did on the Space Shuttle, plus the real-time support. Some logic of mine did get into the Space Shuttle computer, on the aborts, on the GRTLS [Glide Return to Launch Site], which was the glide portion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us your thoughts when you learned about Space Shuttle and some of the initial ideas that came out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 45.15575430312331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but in history maybe they [may] have something of what they had to do, but I know they had to do a lot to be able [to support the landing]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, in a short amount of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They said, “We were scrambling.” I think they worked all night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with the approach and landing test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indirectly. I knew the people that were working on it. We had the programs. I knew what they went through, but I was involved in with the aborts, because you had to do approach and landing, but not the design of the approach and landing. I knew the people that worked on that, because we all worked on this thing [the Space Shuttle], but I was mainly more on the aerodynamic forces when you come in. That was more of what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your memories of STS-1, with Crippen and Young?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 56.71571234996338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They called me up, I don’t know, [about] a month before the flight, because they were concerned about the aborts. So I went, because that’s what I worked on, the aborts. Mainly the RTLS, the return to launch site. They called me up because they said, “We’re kind of confused on some of this stuff.” Actually I don’t know why but they called me, so I went and told Harpold. I said, “John Young called me, he wants me to go over and tell them all about the RTLS, the return to launch site.” Which includes the powered [abort], so I went over all the things that we had to do.\\n\\n I said, “We checked it all out, it’s fine.” They said okay and thanks for coming, but I think that they just wanted to see me probably. [I had only talked to them on the phone before.] That’s what I thought, because they knew all [about the aborts], they just wanted somebody to tell them. I said, “I don’t know why they called.”\\n\\n I was in the staff support room in the mission when we did the entry. That was our first entry, but we had the times that they were going to go into blackout and the time they were going to come out of blackout. We had computed those times real-time in the ACR, so we knew. We were just listening and listening, until it came time for that. They did come out at about the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Everybody was on pins and needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially for a manned flight, first time out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, I remember when I was talking to the [weather] guys at Edwards. They said, “We saw the landing. John Young came out and he was just jumping, looking at the Orbiter. I think he kicked the tires.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an exciting time for you to have worked on these three different spacecraft."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 59.68412483329265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Everybody was on pins and needles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially for a manned flight, first time out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, I remember when I was talking to the [weather] guys at Edwards. They said, “We saw the landing. John Young came out and he was just jumping, looking at the Orbiter. I think he kicked the tires.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an exciting time for you to have worked on these three different spacecraft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn’t work on Mercury but I knew [some of] the people that worked on Mercury. Carl [R.] Huss became our MPAD division head at one time, and I used to talk with him a lot. In fact I bought [one of] his car[s]. He had a T-shirt that said he was the first Retrofire Officer in the free world or something [like that]. They worked out of KSC when they did Mercury, but he was a good guy, Carl Huss. He said, “I’m the first Retrofire Officer of the free world.” All those stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many Shuttle flights were you assisting with before you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 37.79063764221061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes. The weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us some of the challenges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s different weather and also it’s a lake bed at Edwards. At KSC we have a [finite] runway. I had been on that runway. So it’s a different rollout, different aim points. We had aim points where you had to hit so you would be able to stay on the runway and have a good landing. Of course the weather was bad sometimes because of the humidity, especially in the summer.\\n\\n Then the approach was a little different also. A lot of times we’d go through Texas. A lot of times we’d go through Mexico, but to me Edwards was a lot easier to land at, because it was very forgiving, but not at KSC. That was something that we really had to make sure to go into KSC, because of the finite runway.\\n\\n That was the main difference there. Other than that we still had the HAC, the Heading Alignment Circle. It would be the same. We had more capability at KSC, as far as the balloons and the weather [support], but to me it was a little tougher until we finally started landing there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to take a look at the notes you had made to see if there’s some areas that we might not have talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even when I graduated from high school, I still went to work as a migrant worker, because that was the quickest job that you could get, but I worked mainly in the packing plants. My brother went to work at a factory, but they said I was too young or something. So I couldn’t work. So I had to go back and work in the canning plants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they in Texas or did you go out of the state?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, John Glenn was old, but he made it [back into space]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes he did. Well, thank you so much for giving up your afternoon for us and sharing all these nice memories"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s my pleasure. I guess I was glad that I worked [with the space program]. I don’t think I’d have been happy working anyplace else, even though I worked with the environmental agency [in Texas] 12, 13 years, which was a lot to me. I like the operations, and the technical side too. So I was glad that I was able to work on both sides. There were some times that weren’t good, but some times that were. I let everything roll off my back. I didn’t care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s really nice you got to live out your dream from a young child, that you got to do the things that you really wanted to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because when I was a kid picking cotton I knew that I was going to work somewhere, that I was going to be a pilot. At that time I didn’t know I didn’t see that well. [So I settled for aerospace work.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got to see a lot, so that’s what’s really amazing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s my pleasure. I guess I was glad that I worked [with the space program]. I don’t think I’d have been happy working anyplace else, even though I worked with the environmental agency [in Texas] 12, 13 years, which was a lot to me. I like the operations, and the technical side too. So I was glad that I was able to work on both sides. There were some times that weren’t good, but some times that were. I let everything roll off my back. I didn’t care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s really nice you got to live out your dream from a young child, that you got to do the things that you really wanted to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because when I was a kid picking cotton I knew that I was going to work somewhere, that I was going to be a pilot. At that time I didn’t know I didn’t see that well. [So I settled for aerospace work.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got to see a lot, so that’s what’s really amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. I’m glad that I had a part in it, even though I wasn’t really recognized that much. It didn’t matter to me, as long as I knew what I did. I was very happy. My wife wasn’t too happy with the work, with the amount of work that I did, but we got through that. We were able to work things out. I know that three or four of my buddies got a divorce. It was hard on families. You really had to be dedicated to work that many hours, especially at the beginning. But I think that was the only way we could accomplish our goal within the time limit that was set by [President John F.] Kennedy. Oh, I went to his inauguration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you really?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because when I was a kid picking cotton I knew that I was going to work somewhere, that I was going to be a pilot. At that time I didn’t know I didn’t see that well. [So I settled for aerospace work.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got to see a lot, so that’s what’s really amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. I’m glad that I had a part in it, even though I wasn’t really recognized that much. It didn’t matter to me, as long as I knew what I did. I was very happy. My wife wasn’t too happy with the work, with the amount of work that I did, but we got through that. We were able to work things out. I know that three or four of my buddies got a divorce. It was hard on families. You really had to be dedicated to work that many hours, especially at the beginning. But I think that was the only way we could accomplish our goal within the time limit that was set by [President John F.] Kennedy. Oh, I went to his inauguration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was out there in the snow. My wife and I were out in the snow. It just happened that that was my day off when I was in the Army. I said, “We’re going.” So he was Catholic, and we were Catholic, but that wasn’t the reason. It’s that he had a lot of goals for the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of hope."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00190:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. I’m glad that I had a part in it, even though I wasn’t really recognized that much. It didn’t matter to me, as long as I knew what I did. I was very happy. My wife wasn’t too happy with the work, with the amount of work that I did, but we got through that. We were able to work things out. I know that three or four of my buddies got a divorce. It was hard on families. You really had to be dedicated to work that many hours, especially at the beginning. But I think that was the only way we could accomplish our goal within the time limit that was set by [President John F.] Kennedy. Oh, I went to his inauguration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was out there in the snow. My wife and I were out in the snow. It just happened that that was my day off when I was in the Army. I said, “We’re going.” So he was Catholic, and we were Catholic, but that wasn’t the reason. It’s that he had a lot of goals for the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of hope."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We went, and at the time my camera didn’t work right. Something happened to my camera and I was able to take just a few pictures, but we were out there. He was like that [indicating size because of distance], but we saw him, we could hear him. We were there. Even though it snowed all night, I remember. My wife said, “You really want to go.”\\n\\n I said, “Yeah, this is our only chance.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good decision."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.402089024182615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kona. Thanks again for having us out to your house. We certainly appreciate the time that you’re taking this morning. I wanted to ask you about your move into Houston. I understand that you bought a house in Nassau Bay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had it built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you move to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was married to a guy who was with the DuPont Company, and he was transferred to the Houston area. DuPont was generous enough to send me down to find a house. They gave me two days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very generous."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 29.335654471314015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had it built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you move to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was married to a guy who was with the DuPont Company, and he was transferred to the Houston area. DuPont was generous enough to send me down to find a house. They gave me two days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s very generous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn’t find a house that I liked. I’d been living in a gigantic Victorian house across from Niagara Falls, and there’s nothing like that around. I love antiques, and I look for that. I found a lot. There’s a little lake in the back of Nassau Bay, and I found a lot on a corner that faced that. In those two days, I found a builder and a plan. Because I’d done many houses—too many—I sent him instructions of everything that I wanted: the wallpaper, what numbers, where it went, the tiles, everything. When we arrived to move in he had only made one mistake. He’d put one tile where another—he switched. He said I was the easiest he had ever had to work with. I shook his hand, smiled, and he drove away.\\n\\n What I wanted to do was set myself up as an artist in the area because that’s what I’ve always been. I started selling paintings when I was in high school. I’d studied with some of the most famous [artists]. Norman Rockwell was a friend of my father because Dad worked in the main office, which was in New York City, and Rockwell did a lot of stuff for the company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What company was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.746975036007981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apparently he had gotten lessons from someone that he wasn’t satisfied with. That’s what I got from him. I said, “Why do you want to do this?”\\n\\n He says, “Ardis, when I retire from the space program I want to be able to paint space. I’ll be the only artist that’s ever been in space, that’s painting space. I can make a living doing it.” He did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes. Very well actually. He made quite a lot of money."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did Amy’s portrait. She was about that tall [demonstrates] and blond. My youngest son Scott, he was so cute. There was a little brick wall around that you went through to my front door and a little garden. I kept hearing a little girl say, “Scott, come out! Scott, come out,” over and over. Finally I went to the living room window, and I looked out. There’s three little girls sitting on the top. I wonder where Scott is. Finally I went back to his bedroom. I said, “Scott.”\\n\\n He says, “I know. I’m not coming out.”\\n\\n I went to the front door, and I said, “I’m sorry, Amy and your friends, Scott is not coming out.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s funny. Nassau Bay sounds like a nice family neighborhood. Is that why you picked it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I wanted to live in River Oaks because they were older houses, and I was coming from a Victorian. I found one I really liked, and my husband refused to move there because it was going to be too long a drive for him to go to DuPont. He said, “We’re going to go down to Nassau Bay,” and that’s how I ended up [there].\\n\\n That’s Alan and that’s me and that’s other people in the class. [Shows picture]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. He looks so young there. Everybody does."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.9410833733422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did Amy’s portrait. She was about that tall [demonstrates] and blond. My youngest son Scott, he was so cute. There was a little brick wall around that you went through to my front door and a little garden. I kept hearing a little girl say, “Scott, come out! Scott, come out,” over and over. Finally I went to the living room window, and I looked out. There’s three little girls sitting on the top. I wonder where Scott is. Finally I went back to his bedroom. I said, “Scott.”\\n\\n He says, “I know. I’m not coming out.”\\n\\n I went to the front door, and I said, “I’m sorry, Amy and your friends, Scott is not coming out.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s funny. Nassau Bay sounds like a nice family neighborhood. Is that why you picked it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I wanted to live in River Oaks because they were older houses, and I was coming from a Victorian. I found one I really liked, and my husband refused to move there because it was going to be too long a drive for him to go to DuPont. He said, “We’re going to go down to Nassau Bay,” and that’s how I ended up [there].\\n\\n That’s Alan and that’s me and that’s other people in the class. [Shows picture]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. He looks so young there. Everybody does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here’s a better print of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this photo in your home, or is it in the apartment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.267870414824667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I wanted to live in River Oaks because they were older houses, and I was coming from a Victorian. I found one I really liked, and my husband refused to move there because it was going to be too long a drive for him to go to DuPont. He said, “We’re going to go down to Nassau Bay,” and that’s how I ended up [there].\\n\\n That’s Alan and that’s me and that’s other people in the class. [Shows picture]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. He looks so young there. Everybody does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here’s a better print of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this photo in your home, or is it in the apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s where I taught. That was my family room. I bought enough easels so that everyone would have one when they came to the house. Then they put them in the garage when they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great.\n\nThat’s amazing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.630967127582963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here’s a better print of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this photo in your home, or is it in the apartment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s where I taught. That was my family room. I bought enough easels so that everyone would have one when they came to the house. Then they put them in the garage when they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great.\n\nThat’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The funny part about it is my education, I’m just an artist. I’ve got brains from NASA, people who did important jobs that had degree after degree, and here I am just an artist and I’m teaching them. I was very humble about the whole thing, but we had a good time. Do you want any pictures?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you want to share.\n\nWe can scan them and return them to you, so yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.145519030647737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s where I taught. That was my family room. I bought enough easels so that everyone would have one when they came to the house. Then they put them in the garage when they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great.\n\nThat’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The funny part about it is my education, I’m just an artist. I’ve got brains from NASA, people who did important jobs that had degree after degree, and here I am just an artist and I’m teaching them. I was very humble about the whole thing, but we had a good time. Do you want any pictures?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you want to share.\n\nWe can scan them and return them to you, so yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You might want that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We always like to add them to the transcripts because then it just adds nice detail. …"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.828354478497484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The funny part about it is my education, I’m just an artist. I’ve got brains from NASA, people who did important jobs that had degree after degree, and here I am just an artist and I’m teaching them. I was very humble about the whole thing, but we had a good time. Do you want any pictures?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you want to share.\n\nWe can scan them and return them to you, so yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You might want that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We always like to add them to the transcripts because then it just adds nice detail. …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a party at my house for the wives. … This was really fun. [Shows photos]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about that [the patch on the antique car] as well. I understand you designed that for the vehicle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.698171642774984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You might want that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We always like to add them to the transcripts because then it just adds nice detail. …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a party at my house for the wives. … This was really fun. [Shows photos]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about that [the patch on the antique car] as well. I understand you designed that for the vehicle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I painted it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered if you were involved in the decision to go with those Western nineteenth century [outfits]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.55352404752776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a party at my house for the wives. … This was really fun. [Shows photos]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about that [the patch on the antique car] as well. I understand you designed that for the vehicle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I painted it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wondered if you were involved in the decision to go with those Western nineteenth century [outfits]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came up with that idea and asked me if I would do a patch big enough to cover the tire on the back. Gratia [Lousma] has it. She’s not sure where it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have moved a couple of times, so it probably is somewhere. …"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.67101734262686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came up with that idea and asked me if I would do a patch big enough to cover the tire on the back. Gratia [Lousma] has it. She’s not sure where it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have moved a couple of times, so it probably is somewhere. …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jack [R.] Lousma has a really neat story about the wives’ patch. He was actually sitting right where you are right now when he told me about it. He said that when they got up into space they each had a little [locker] that was for their personal stuff, and when they each opened their door they saw the wives’ patch. That’s the first they knew about the wives’ patch. That was a surprise. He’s so sweet. He said, “Ardis, every day I would open that and it would make me happy to see that patch.” Isn’t that darling of him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s sweet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a jewel among men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t we talk about the patch, since we’ve got it in front of us. Tell us how the idea came about. Did you know these three women? Why did you decide to design a patch specifically for that crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.33744405938603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened is I had a party at my house and invited them. I had cut them out, because they came from the printer like that. I cut three out and one for me. When they came in, I stuck it on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, so that’s what that is on their shirts in this photo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They just thought it was a gas. It was a big party. It was joyous. I think that’s the first time people had given them any kind of credit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to get the patch on board the spacecraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still do not know the answer. The reason is it was very very illegal for somebody to stick something [onboard] that they hadn’t approved of on any of those [missions]. Somebody who worked inside that thing, and nobody would ever tell me who, put those on. I wasn’t even told that it was done. I didn’t know it until I got a picture of Alan Bean on my computer looking at this patch in space. That’s the first I knew that it had even happened. Nobody’s ever going to tell who did it. I’m sorry, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s worth asking. Obviously you had done the portrait of Sue [Bean] by then. Did you know the other two wives? Were you close friends with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.30419492182091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I’d take pictures to send to French-speaking newspapers. We knew each other. We were friends. I didn’t have to say, “I’m Ardis.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the splashdown parties. A lot of people tell us that they were really exciting and very interesting, but they don’t provide too many details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite party that I went to there was when they had the unveiling of Amy Bean[’s portrait]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their layout in their house was a typical Nassau Bay house. When you walked in the front door, you knew where everything was. It was a two-story house. You walked in the entrance and their living room, always tiny—big family room and then a dining room. I walked in, and I looked and hanging over the buffet in the dining room was this portrait.\\n\\n Everybody was, “Ardis is here.” I’m not good at all that attention. That was a super party. That was my favorite of any that I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. Seeing your work on someone’s wall. Was it a big deal to you that an astronaut had asked you to do portraits? Or was it kind of like [anyone else] asking [you] to commission a painting?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.337994357578786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite party that I went to there was when they had the unveiling of Amy Bean[’s portrait]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their layout in their house was a typical Nassau Bay house. When you walked in the front door, you knew where everything was. It was a two-story house. You walked in the entrance and their living room, always tiny—big family room and then a dining room. I walked in, and I looked and hanging over the buffet in the dining room was this portrait.\\n\\n Everybody was, “Ardis is here.” I’m not good at all that attention. That was a super party. That was my favorite of any that I went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet. Seeing your work on someone’s wall. Was it a big deal to you that an astronaut had asked you to do portraits? Or was it kind of like [anyone else] asking [you] to commission a painting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a big deal that we got to be such good friends. I’ve done stuff for movie stars and other big deal people. They’re just human beings. I can admire them for what their accomplishments are. …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet you have some interesting stories."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.043428944738752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was so much talking going on, I don’t remember anything that happened, just the vision of the whole thing. The most interesting part about that is Alan always had things figured out the way he wanted them to be before you discussed [them]. When he came over about it he said, “This is what I want.”\\n\\n My normal size [portrait] was about the size of that [points] but turned the other way, so that it was long. He said, “I want Amy full-length in the center and then I want four little different poses, vignettes, in the corners of her doing something.”\\n\\n I said, “Alan, you’re not going to like that.”\\n\\n He said, “That’s what I want.” That’s what I did.\\n\\n They’re on a specially prepared board, they’re done with pencils, and they have fixative afterwards. Once you’ve gotten that far, you’re done with that. He came over, and he looked at it. He said, “I don’t like it.”\\n\\n I said, “Alan, I told you you weren’t going to like it.”\\n\\n He said, “I’m sorry.” So I had to do it over again with just Amy’s portrait in the middle. I believe I charged him $300."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, but I wasn’t sure if that was appropriate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back then my house payment was $299 a month. Money was different. A carton of cigarettes was four bucks. When we say $299, in today’s money it would be a lot more. But I never made the kind of money that my brother did.\\n\\n My brother was one of America’s most important artists ever, and I could get an iPad from the other room and show you his work. … He was very successful. I’m just the secondary artist in the Shanks family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk a little bit about Nassau Bay, because I think it’s an interesting community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, you’re fine. We appreciate these stories about Alan Bean."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.714921049709723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back then my house payment was $299 a month. Money was different. A carton of cigarettes was four bucks. When we say $299, in today’s money it would be a lot more. But I never made the kind of money that my brother did.\\n\\n My brother was one of America’s most important artists ever, and I could get an iPad from the other room and show you his work. … He was very successful. I’m just the secondary artist in the Shanks family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk a little bit about Nassau Bay, because I think it’s an interesting community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, you’re fine. We appreciate these stories about Alan Bean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re important. The stuff about Alan is important to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They are. It is."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.572134499677468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, you’re fine. We appreciate these stories about Alan Bean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re important. The stuff about Alan is important to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They are. It is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want people to know what a wonderful human being he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. If there’s other stories you want to tell us, we would love to capture them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.413482777419407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re important. The stuff about Alan is important to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They are. It is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want people to know what a wonderful human being he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. If there’s other stories you want to tell us, we would love to capture them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One or two were full of themselves but very few. Now you take John [H.] Glenn for example. Can I tell you a story about John?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, of course."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.348314197132673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want people to know what a wonderful human being he was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. If there’s other stories you want to tell us, we would love to capture them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One or two were full of themselves but very few. Now you take John [H.] Glenn for example. Can I tell you a story about John?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember whether it was Kansas City, I think it was, that he was from that area. Do you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he’s from Ohio."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.948536045842804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember whether it was Kansas City, I think it was, that he was from that area. Do you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think he’s from Ohio."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Near Cleveland then. My dad after I’d grown up was the Scout executive for the greater Cleveland area. He managed to get a big new wonderful office space built, which I’m sure is still there, in the colonial style, of course, downtown. He got the idea to contact John Glenn and see if he would come and talk to the Boy Scouts, and John Glenn agreed. He went. It was outside the front of this big huge building, and it was just Boy Scouts, massive, all in their uniforms. I can just imagine what it was like.\\n\\n He gave this wonderful talk, and when he was finished he was signing autographs and answering questions. Two guys came up, I guess they were the pilots that brought him from NASA. I don’t know. It was the plane he was on. “Excuse me, sir, but we need to leave right now.”\\n\\n “I’m busy. Wait a few [minutes]. Excuse me, but I’m not finished yet.” He would not go until the last kid had been satisfied. That impressed my father so much that that man was willing to take his time to come and talk to the boys like he did.\\n\\n Did you know the first astronauts were all Eagle Scouts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\n\nI think I’ve heard that before.\n\nYes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.831706717603115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Near Cleveland then. My dad after I’d grown up was the Scout executive for the greater Cleveland area. He managed to get a big new wonderful office space built, which I’m sure is still there, in the colonial style, of course, downtown. He got the idea to contact John Glenn and see if he would come and talk to the Boy Scouts, and John Glenn agreed. He went. It was outside the front of this big huge building, and it was just Boy Scouts, massive, all in their uniforms. I can just imagine what it was like.\\n\\n He gave this wonderful talk, and when he was finished he was signing autographs and answering questions. Two guys came up, I guess they were the pilots that brought him from NASA. I don’t know. It was the plane he was on. “Excuse me, sir, but we need to leave right now.”\\n\\n “I’m busy. Wait a few [minutes]. Excuse me, but I’m not finished yet.” He would not go until the last kid had been satisfied. That impressed my father so much that that man was willing to take his time to come and talk to the boys like he did.\\n\\n Did you know the first astronauts were all Eagle Scouts?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\n\nI think I’ve heard that before.\n\nYes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Boy Scout camp in the summer. My girlfriends went to Girl Scout camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes sense. You have to keep it in the family, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.924118575114573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\n\nI think I’ve heard that before.\n\nYes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Boy Scout camp in the summer. My girlfriends went to Girl Scout camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes sense. You have to keep it in the family, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are just stories about two of the astronauts that myself and my family got to know best. They’re just such nice human beings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you followed the space program much before you moved to Nassau Bay?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.24902063901619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Boy Scout camp in the summer. My girlfriends went to Girl Scout camp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes sense. You have to keep it in the family, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are just stories about two of the astronauts that myself and my family got to know best. They’re just such nice human beings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you followed the space program much before you moved to Nassau Bay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a big deal that you were moving right across the street from the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 25.832245154462434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are just stories about two of the astronauts that myself and my family got to know best. They’re just such nice human beings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you followed the space program much before you moved to Nassau Bay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a big deal that you were moving right across the street from the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was just not happy because I wanted to live in River Oaks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Nassau Bay look like when you moved there? Was there a lot of construction going on, or were things pretty much built up?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.59138350495826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a big deal that you were moving right across the street from the Manned Spacecraft Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was just not happy because I wanted to live in River Oaks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Nassau Bay look like when you moved there? Was there a lot of construction going on, or were things pretty much built up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much finished, pretty much the way they look right now. I think some storm took down one or two houses that had to be rebuilt. It was a nice place to live, and I thought the school system was very good.\\n\\n While we were there my oldest daughter went to [Texas] A&M [University, College Station]. Phil, if you see the picture of the two boys with the hats, the one on the right, he was a musician in high school. The one on the left became a big deal with Chevron. Rex Tillerson fired 7,000 people one day while he was back on leave from Kazakhstan, so they sent him $1.25 million severance pay. He already had made millions. He’s a multimillionaire retired, and he’s in his fifties.\\n\\n Phil went out to Hollywood. When he was a teenager, he played at Fridays. But he and his friends weren’t old enough to drive, so I would drive them down to the nightclub, where they would play, and I would sit in there for the evening. He would always do the same thing, it was so cute. The kids got such good vibes living in the Bay Area. No crime. You didn’t have to worry about locking your doors.\\n\\n At the end when all the applause was down he’d say, “And now I’d like you to meet my mother.” Now how many teenage kids would do that? Somebody took this picture. Here. I just was so proud of him because I can’t imagine teenagers wanting to introduce their mother. I’m the mother. That’s him up on the stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s sweet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.54598167217584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I was just not happy because I wanted to live in River Oaks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did Nassau Bay look like when you moved there? Was there a lot of construction going on, or were things pretty much built up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much finished, pretty much the way they look right now. I think some storm took down one or two houses that had to be rebuilt. It was a nice place to live, and I thought the school system was very good.\\n\\n While we were there my oldest daughter went to [Texas] A&M [University, College Station]. Phil, if you see the picture of the two boys with the hats, the one on the right, he was a musician in high school. The one on the left became a big deal with Chevron. Rex Tillerson fired 7,000 people one day while he was back on leave from Kazakhstan, so they sent him $1.25 million severance pay. He already had made millions. He’s a multimillionaire retired, and he’s in his fifties.\\n\\n Phil went out to Hollywood. When he was a teenager, he played at Fridays. But he and his friends weren’t old enough to drive, so I would drive them down to the nightclub, where they would play, and I would sit in there for the evening. He would always do the same thing, it was so cute. The kids got such good vibes living in the Bay Area. No crime. You didn’t have to worry about locking your doors.\\n\\n At the end when all the applause was down he’d say, “And now I’d like you to meet my mother.” Now how many teenage kids would do that? Somebody took this picture. Here. I just was so proud of him because I can’t imagine teenagers wanting to introduce their mother. I’m the mother. That’s him up on the stage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s sweet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After he introduced his mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s sweet.\n\nThat’s nice.\n\nYou raised him right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.192569965649184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After he introduced his mother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s sweet.\n\nThat’s nice.\n\nYou raised him right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of it has to do with where you are. If you’re living in Brooklyn, there’s so much crime even now that it’s going to be hard to keep your kids out of trouble. But in a peaceful place like it was down by the Space Center—in those years a lot of adults and a lot of children were smoking pot. It was real easy to buy it by the pound and divide it up between you and all your friends, but nobody got into trouble.\\n\\n When he grew up, he went to Hollywood and became a bandleader, singer, guitar player, music writer, and did the music for movies. That was his career until he passed away a few years ago, but he had the life he wanted. His father wanted him to be a DuPont engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But see, my mother was a concert pianist, so it sort of runs in the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I kind of figured, since you mentioned your brother."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.250086377344672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But see, my mother was a concert pianist, so it sort of runs in the family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I kind of figured, since you mentioned your brother."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you’ll have to look him up sometime. I’ll give you his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyhow, that’s what I felt about Nassau Bay. Where we lived in Lewiston, New York, you can hear the queen’s band playing in Canada on Sundays from our backyard. The town was minute, about six stores, period, so it was a good atmosphere for kids too. I was lucky; we never lived any place that was crime-loaded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of restaurants or places to shop when you moved to Nassau Bay? Or did you go up into Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.277873752605192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you’ll have to look him up sometime. I’ll give you his name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyhow, that’s what I felt about Nassau Bay. Where we lived in Lewiston, New York, you can hear the queen’s band playing in Canada on Sundays from our backyard. The town was minute, about six stores, period, so it was a good atmosphere for kids too. I was lucky; we never lived any place that was crime-loaded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of restaurants or places to shop when you moved to Nassau Bay? Or did you go up into Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honey, I bought my clothes at Neiman Marcus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so I guess you went to The Galleria. Or was The Galleria even around then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.53097083622799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyhow, that’s what I felt about Nassau Bay. Where we lived in Lewiston, New York, you can hear the queen’s band playing in Canada on Sundays from our backyard. The town was minute, about six stores, period, so it was a good atmosphere for kids too. I was lucky; we never lived any place that was crime-loaded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of restaurants or places to shop when you moved to Nassau Bay? Or did you go up into Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honey, I bought my clothes at Neiman Marcus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so I guess you went to The Galleria. Or was The Galleria even around then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was The Galleria."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.12465535336789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was The Galleria."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to dress fancy because I was always getting my picture taken, and I would not pay for advertising. I had this woman in the adult department, smaller lady department, on this corner upstairs, Mrs. Shepard. She would call me, and she’d say, “Ardis, this is Mrs. Shepard.”\\n\\n “Hi, Mrs. Shepard.”\\n\\n “We just got some new clothes in, and I think there may be something that you would like.”\\n\\n I would go down, and she would have them hanging in a dressing room. If I’d say, “I don’t think I like that,” she says, “My dear, please just try it on.” She always would pick out things. See, I was busy. I couldn’t spend all day shopping like my other friends that lived there. She’d pick stuff out, and I’d go down and buy it.\\n\\n There was another store on the way into town on that side, a big shopping place. I think it’s not there anymore, where I bought most of the kids’ clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gulfgate Mall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The grocery store was fine. Downtown on the other side of town was a little Italian market. I loved to cook Italian food. I’d been to Italy. I loved the people and the food.\\n\\n When you walked in, there was a wooden barrel inside the door and it was filled with snails still in their shells, escargots. I’d always buy a few dozen of those and other things. The funniest part about it, when I’d get them home, you put them in warm water, and that little sealed part melts away, and they wake up. I’d let the kids stick them on the wall in the kitchen, and they’d be all crawling. We had fun, once I got divorced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you divorce?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.360728170408766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to dress fancy because I was always getting my picture taken, and I would not pay for advertising. I had this woman in the adult department, smaller lady department, on this corner upstairs, Mrs. Shepard. She would call me, and she’d say, “Ardis, this is Mrs. Shepard.”\\n\\n “Hi, Mrs. Shepard.”\\n\\n “We just got some new clothes in, and I think there may be something that you would like.”\\n\\n I would go down, and she would have them hanging in a dressing room. If I’d say, “I don’t think I like that,” she says, “My dear, please just try it on.” She always would pick out things. See, I was busy. I couldn’t spend all day shopping like my other friends that lived there. She’d pick stuff out, and I’d go down and buy it.\\n\\n There was another store on the way into town on that side, a big shopping place. I think it’s not there anymore, where I bought most of the kids’ clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gulfgate Mall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The grocery store was fine. Downtown on the other side of town was a little Italian market. I loved to cook Italian food. I’d been to Italy. I loved the people and the food.\\n\\n When you walked in, there was a wooden barrel inside the door and it was filled with snails still in their shells, escargots. I’d always buy a few dozen of those and other things. The funniest part about it, when I’d get them home, you put them in warm water, and that little sealed part melts away, and they wake up. I’d let the kids stick them on the wall in the kitchen, and they’d be all crawling. We had fun, once I got divorced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you divorce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Heck. My daughter was 19, and I was 19 years older than her. If you add that up, I was born in ’32, and you would have the answer. Can you figure that out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that ’70? I think ’70."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.845253522676405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The grocery store was fine. Downtown on the other side of town was a little Italian market. I loved to cook Italian food. I’d been to Italy. I loved the people and the food.\\n\\n When you walked in, there was a wooden barrel inside the door and it was filled with snails still in their shells, escargots. I’d always buy a few dozen of those and other things. The funniest part about it, when I’d get them home, you put them in warm water, and that little sealed part melts away, and they wake up. I’d let the kids stick them on the wall in the kitchen, and they’d be all crawling. We had fun, once I got divorced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you divorce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Heck. My daughter was 19, and I was 19 years older than her. If you add that up, I was born in ’32, and you would have the answer. Can you figure that out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that ’70? I think ’70."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never pay any attention to dates. I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. I’m just wondering the time period, because you said you were the single woman living in the neighborhood. Just interesting, because that was a very family-oriented [neighborhood]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.605837247418226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Heck. My daughter was 19, and I was 19 years older than her. If you add that up, I was born in ’32, and you would have the answer. Can you figure that out?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that ’70? I think ’70."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never pay any attention to dates. I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. I’m just wondering the time period, because you said you were the single woman living in the neighborhood. Just interesting, because that was a very family-oriented [neighborhood]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first moved there I was married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right.\n\nYou mentioned you were a friend of Al Bean’s, but you mentioned other friends as well. Who were some of your friends? Were they all from NASA? Or were they artists like you? Who were some of the folks that would come over, and you would have dinner parties with or go out to lunch with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 27.339819163798026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never pay any attention to dates. I’m sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. I’m just wondering the time period, because you said you were the single woman living in the neighborhood. Just interesting, because that was a very family-oriented [neighborhood]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first moved there I was married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right.\n\nYou mentioned you were a friend of Al Bean’s, but you mentioned other friends as well. Who were some of your friends? Were they all from NASA? Or were they artists like you? Who were some of the folks that would come over, and you would have dinner parties with or go out to lunch with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first moved there I had a lot of DuPont people. I had done the same kind of a deal other places. I like to cook very gourmet. I don’t do it as much now because my dog doesn’t eat that stuff. I’d have dinner parties. All the ladies would wear long dresses, and it was all very fun and very formal.\\n\\n The dining room, the chairs were all Queen Anne. I’d bought them in Liverpool, England, when I was on one of my trips to England. The dining room table was sort of Queen Anne style, and I’d bought it from the people who had owned the Victorian house that I had. You could put in these leaves, so it could be big. I’d learned a lot of lessons. My mother did a lot of entertaining.\\n\\n One of the things I would do is I’d take a little piece of paper, and I would write different subjects on it. I would put it under my spoon. If the conversation went completely silent and everybody’s looking like, “What are we going to talk about,” I’d pick the next thing on the [list] and say, “Well, what do you think about so-and-so?” I had all these tricks to make the parties, because some of them with the DuPont people were quite boring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the NASA people or the artists that would come over? Were they more engaging?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.243762237799157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve done so many shows and traveled on planes so much. Of course when I built this house every Friday I paid off the workers so that when the last guy left I owned it. All this I’ve done as a little artist. The patch thing, to get back to that, that was just as a fun little sweet thing to do for some girls. Usually when people want to talk about it, “Hey, it’s not about me, it’s about them.” It really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to know Sue Bean very well, being such a good friend of Alan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and when the mikes are turned off I’ll tell you something about that. Yes, we were friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple of other questions that I’ve been thinking about. I wanted to get your take on it. One of them is I think that the women who moved to Clear Lake really helped to create and build that community because the guys were always gone. They were busy working on the space program, or I’m guessing in your husband’s case working at DuPont. I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell me the first part. The women were doing what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really helping to build the community. When they got there there wasn’t much there, and they were building these homes, building a life. Their husbands were off working at NASA. Is that what you witnessed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.604180264221284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and when the mikes are turned off I’ll tell you something about that. Yes, we were friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple of other questions that I’ve been thinking about. I wanted to get your take on it. One of them is I think that the women who moved to Clear Lake really helped to create and build that community because the guys were always gone. They were busy working on the space program, or I’m guessing in your husband’s case working at DuPont. I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell me the first part. The women were doing what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really helping to build the community. When they got there there wasn’t much there, and they were building these homes, building a life. Their husbands were off working at NASA. Is that what you witnessed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when I got there almost every lot was already finished and people were living there. There were a few on the lakeside, the big lake, whatever that big water is as you come in. The grocery store is there, and that water that’s out there. There were a few places to build. But it was finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a sense of the community being unified behind the Apollo Program, the Moon program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.11575584913476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell me the first part. The women were doing what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really helping to build the community. When they got there there wasn’t much there, and they were building these homes, building a life. Their husbands were off working at NASA. Is that what you witnessed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when I got there almost every lot was already finished and people were living there. There were a few on the lakeside, the big lake, whatever that big water is as you come in. The grocery store is there, and that water that’s out there. There were a few places to build. But it was finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a sense of the community being unified behind the Apollo Program, the Moon program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt like it was, but it’s just a feeling. People didn’t go up and say, “I’m unified.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What gave you that feeling? What do you think created that or caused that in that community, in that space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.7952842768164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, when I got there almost every lot was already finished and people were living there. There were a few on the lakeside, the big lake, whatever that big water is as you come in. The grocery store is there, and that water that’s out there. There were a few places to build. But it was finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a sense of the community being unified behind the Apollo Program, the Moon program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt like it was, but it’s just a feeling. People didn’t go up and say, “I’m unified.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What gave you that feeling? What do you think created that or caused that in that community, in that space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people worked there. Most of my students worked there or flew there. It was just all about space there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up going to a church when you moved to that area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.661426974240445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt like it was, but it’s just a feeling. People didn’t go up and say, “I’m unified.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What gave you that feeling? What do you think created that or caused that in that community, in that space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people worked there. Most of my students worked there or flew there. It was just all about space there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up going to a church when you moved to that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had always gone to a church before I moved down there. My grandfather was a Methodist minister, so it was a very heavy thing in our family. I don’t know why, but I just did not find a church that I felt like I wanted to be part of when I got down there. It didn’t stop me from being serious about being a Christian.\\n\\n When I moved over here, people have asked me, “What church do you go to?”\\n\\n I say, “I don’t go to church, I live in one.” Because when I got ready to build this house I found out that they were getting ready to tear down Incarnate Word Convent in San Antonio, which was built in 1889, and I went over and made a deal with Sister Rosita. She gave me a few days, more than a week, to go and tear out whatever I wanted, and then I would give a donation. All these windows, these doors, the altar rail, the floors. More stuff all over the house was all part of Incarnate Word Convent. You can see that doorway is from a house from about 1920 [points] versus if you look over at that door, 1889."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a great deal you made."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:150", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.51269663804494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people worked there. Most of my students worked there or flew there. It was just all about space there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you end up going to a church when you moved to that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had always gone to a church before I moved down there. My grandfather was a Methodist minister, so it was a very heavy thing in our family. I don’t know why, but I just did not find a church that I felt like I wanted to be part of when I got down there. It didn’t stop me from being serious about being a Christian.\\n\\n When I moved over here, people have asked me, “What church do you go to?”\\n\\n I say, “I don’t go to church, I live in one.” Because when I got ready to build this house I found out that they were getting ready to tear down Incarnate Word Convent in San Antonio, which was built in 1889, and I went over and made a deal with Sister Rosita. She gave me a few days, more than a week, to go and tear out whatever I wanted, and then I would give a donation. All these windows, these doors, the altar rail, the floors. More stuff all over the house was all part of Incarnate Word Convent. You can see that doorway is from a house from about 1920 [points] versus if you look over at that door, 1889."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a great deal you made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lost a lot of weight in there. I’ll tell you I had a couple of big strong guys, but I worked my little butt [off]. I lost about a pound a day every day I was over there, trying to get stuff out. The table they used to cut the habits out is now my dining room table. I’ll show you around, if you want to see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.458551820049932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had always gone to a church before I moved down there. My grandfather was a Methodist minister, so it was a very heavy thing in our family. I don’t know why, but I just did not find a church that I felt like I wanted to be part of when I got down there. It didn’t stop me from being serious about being a Christian.\\n\\n When I moved over here, people have asked me, “What church do you go to?”\\n\\n I say, “I don’t go to church, I live in one.” Because when I got ready to build this house I found out that they were getting ready to tear down Incarnate Word Convent in San Antonio, which was built in 1889, and I went over and made a deal with Sister Rosita. She gave me a few days, more than a week, to go and tear out whatever I wanted, and then I would give a donation. All these windows, these doors, the altar rail, the floors. More stuff all over the house was all part of Incarnate Word Convent. You can see that doorway is from a house from about 1920 [points] versus if you look over at that door, 1889."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a great deal you made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lost a lot of weight in there. I’ll tell you I had a couple of big strong guys, but I worked my little butt [off]. I lost about a pound a day every day I was over there, trying to get stuff out. The table they used to cut the habits out is now my dining room table. I’ll show you around, if you want to see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But back to Nassau Bay. If I had just made a dream in my head, I couldn’t have thought of a better place to have my family, if I had to leave Lewiston, New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why would you say it was such a great place for your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.39839091116659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lost a lot of weight in there. I’ll tell you I had a couple of big strong guys, but I worked my little butt [off]. I lost about a pound a day every day I was over there, trying to get stuff out. The table they used to cut the habits out is now my dining room table. I’ll show you around, if you want to see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’d like to see it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But back to Nassau Bay. If I had just made a dream in my head, I couldn’t have thought of a better place to have my family, if I had to leave Lewiston, New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why would you say it was such a great place for your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there was no crime. People were friendly. There were no traffic jams unless you got on the Gulf Freeway. My view was of the lake out the front. It just was a good place for kids to grow up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have any problems with tour buses coming in wanting to see the home of Al Bean or some of the other astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.331545456851767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But back to Nassau Bay. If I had just made a dream in my head, I couldn’t have thought of a better place to have my family, if I had to leave Lewiston, New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why would you say it was such a great place for your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there was no crime. People were friendly. There were no traffic jams unless you got on the Gulf Freeway. My view was of the lake out the front. It just was a good place for kids to grow up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have any problems with tour buses coming in wanting to see the home of Al Bean or some of the other astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The community would ask me, the garden club and other [groups], they’d do house tours. I think they made money doing them, I’m not sure, and they would ask if they could put my house on the tour. I would let them. Because people knew who I was, I’d have crowds coming through. There’d be someone standing in each room to make sure there weren’t shoplifters and to explain the different things that were in that room.\\n\\n Then I’d have something that I had made on the back porch, some Christmas decorations hanging on strings from the ceiling, that they could purchase. I didn’t take the money, I gave it to the garden club or whatever it was. That was my giving back to my community, because they were a pain in the neck if you want to know the truth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were divorced, and you were the only single woman. Did you feel like you may have been the only feminist in the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:160", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.520426489940451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The community would ask me, the garden club and other [groups], they’d do house tours. I think they made money doing them, I’m not sure, and they would ask if they could put my house on the tour. I would let them. Because people knew who I was, I’d have crowds coming through. There’d be someone standing in each room to make sure there weren’t shoplifters and to explain the different things that were in that room.\\n\\n Then I’d have something that I had made on the back porch, some Christmas decorations hanging on strings from the ceiling, that they could purchase. I didn’t take the money, I gave it to the garden club or whatever it was. That was my giving back to my community, because they were a pain in the neck if you want to know the truth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were divorced, and you were the only single woman. Did you feel like you may have been the only feminist in the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never even thought about feminists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was an issue back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you.\n\nThe only thing, you were talking about those tours. I was just curious why they wanted to use your house? Was it because of the antiques and the way you had it decorated? Or was it because you were the artist and people would come to see?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:162", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.800473877711612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never even thought about feminists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was an issue back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you.\n\nThe only thing, you were talking about those tours. I was just curious why they wanted to use your house? Was it because of the antiques and the way you had it decorated? Or was it because you were the artist and people would come to see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably all of the above, because people that had been to parties at my house knew about paintings that were hanging on the walls and artwork and eighteenth century furniture. My house was more interesting inside than a whole lot of the [subdivision]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was wondering."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:164", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.222748753012901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that was an issue back then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you.\n\nThe only thing, you were talking about those tours. I was just curious why they wanted to use your house? Was it because of the antiques and the way you had it decorated? Or was it because you were the artist and people would come to see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably all of the above, because people that had been to parties at my house knew about paintings that were hanging on the walls and artwork and eighteenth century furniture. My house was more interesting inside than a whole lot of the [subdivision]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was wondering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking of one of the astronauts’ wives I won’t mention right now, that had a house sort of similar to mine. Run-of-the-mill furniture, nothing interesting, just stuff. A lot of the houses were like that. Mine was always like this, wherever you looked there was something that might interest you. That was probably part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was thinking, at that time period the style of homes and the furniture was very different than what you have. It was more that midcentury [style]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 12.469720836681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably all of the above, because people that had been to parties at my house knew about paintings that were hanging on the walls and artwork and eighteenth century furniture. My house was more interesting inside than a whole lot of the [subdivision]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was wondering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking of one of the astronauts’ wives I won’t mention right now, that had a house sort of similar to mine. Run-of-the-mill furniture, nothing interesting, just stuff. A lot of the houses were like that. Mine was always like this, wherever you looked there was something that might interest you. That was probably part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was thinking, at that time period the style of homes and the furniture was very different than what you have. It was more that midcentury [style]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I learned about collecting antiques when I was a little kid. We would go back from up North to Oklahoma and stop at antique stores. On the way home, I would be sitting with a table leg sticking out over where I was sitting. We’d be packed. I learned. Before I was 12, I could spot something and tell you about when and where it was from, which I guess most kids can’t.\\n\\n I started collecting early on, as soon as I got married. My first piece was a disaster, and I learned a lesson. I bought a table with a marble top, took it to my dad’s house. “Dad, I got an antique.” He comes running out all excited. He looks at it, and he goes [makes face]. I looked at it, and I said, “Oh my gosh, it’s Victorian.” I kept the marble top, and I put it on a piano bench for a coffee table. I threw the table in the garbage. I learned. The beginning of Victorian is—after that it’s a no-no if you’re a serious antique collector."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting.\n\nI didn’t know that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.524994289, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My favorite things are around the eighteenth century, 1800s, a little before, which is like that piece over there [points] with a cabriole leg. Then that’s transitional, that piece there [points], where it’s still curvy a little bit. Louis XVI has a straight round leg, and I don’t like that.\\n\\n I was fortunate enough, during my first marriage, my father-in-law was sent to England to be the head of Vauxhall Motors. General Motors owned it. That was the biggest car company in England. He had a Vauxhall Viscount and a chauffeur and the whole nine yards. He would send tickets for me to go with my children and spend weeks at a time.\\n\\n His chauffeur, after he’d take Pop to work, would come pick me up, and we would go to junk shops. That’s what they called antique shops. They were antique shops but they call them junk shops. Have you been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d go to auctions, for example, and I never could figure out the pounds. I’d tell Jim in dollars how high I would want to go on a piece. He’d stand behind me, and he’d bid. Then sometimes he’d tap me on the shoulder, and he’d lean over. “We’ve got it, ma’am.” Then the company would send a lorry out to pick it up. I’d buy stuff all over the place, top to bottom, up and down. General Motors, at their expense, would ship it all back to my house in the U.S. Many things that you see in this house I got that way. It was so inexpensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other thing I thought about, did your kids belong to Scouts since your father was so involved in Boy Scouts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both my boys were Scouts, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the Scout leaders men in the neighborhoods or other people that worked for NASA? Were they involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:176", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8055492099999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d go to auctions, for example, and I never could figure out the pounds. I’d tell Jim in dollars how high I would want to go on a piece. He’d stand behind me, and he’d bid. Then sometimes he’d tap me on the shoulder, and he’d lean over. “We’ve got it, ma’am.” Then the company would send a lorry out to pick it up. I’d buy stuff all over the place, top to bottom, up and down. General Motors, at their expense, would ship it all back to my house in the U.S. Many things that you see in this house I got that way. It was so inexpensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other thing I thought about, did your kids belong to Scouts since your father was so involved in Boy Scouts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both my boys were Scouts, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the Scout leaders men in the neighborhoods or other people that worked for NASA? Were they involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. It was mostly when we lived up North that they were in scouting. I know my oldest son went on an overnight camping trip with a sleeping bag left over from my dad. It was in the middle of the winter, and he was in the snow in this thing. They had interesting times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came down to Nassau Bay, they weren’t as involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1172769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both my boys were Scouts, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the Scout leaders men in the neighborhoods or other people that worked for NASA? Were they involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. It was mostly when we lived up North that they were in scouting. I know my oldest son went on an overnight camping trip with a sleeping bag left over from my dad. It was in the middle of the winter, and he was in the snow in this thing. They had interesting times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came down to Nassau Bay, they weren’t as involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not as involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. We know some of the—\n\nSome of the wives were heading those up.\n\n—wives were doing that and some of the husbands too. Some of the astronauts were somewhat involved in scouting. Like you said, so many of them were Boy Scouts too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4636409999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. It was mostly when we lived up North that they were in scouting. I know my oldest son went on an overnight camping trip with a sleeping bag left over from my dad. It was in the middle of the winter, and he was in the snow in this thing. They had interesting times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came down to Nassau Bay, they weren’t as involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not as involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. We know some of the—\n\nSome of the wives were heading those up.\n\n—wives were doing that and some of the husbands too. Some of the astronauts were somewhat involved in scouting. Like you said, so many of them were Boy Scouts too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first group of astronauts were all Eagle Scouts. My dad was very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned taking your kids out on the front lawn and pointing out Apollo 12. Do you have any memories of any of the other missions from Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8484899999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not as involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. We know some of the—\n\nSome of the wives were heading those up.\n\n—wives were doing that and some of the husbands too. Some of the astronauts were somewhat involved in scouting. Like you said, so many of them were Boy Scouts too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first group of astronauts were all Eagle Scouts. My dad was very proud of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned taking your kids out on the front lawn and pointing out Apollo 12. Do you have any memories of any of the other missions from Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the only time we ever went out and looked up. It was on TV, and so I said, “Come on, let’s go look.” If I’d seen some other missions that you could actually see that they were up there I would have taken them out. They were very interested in all of the space stuff. I think most kids that lived there, how could they resist being interested?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get to go over to NASA and tour? See what was going on over there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00526:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean in Nassau Bay are you talking about? Or at the Space Center?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, over at the Space Center. When Apollo 11 might have been going on or another mission. Did you ever go over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. What I’d do is I’d get invited to go over the night before and take pictures, and then the day of the launch I’d go over and there were people all over the place. There were bleachers for the important people. I’d sit usually up at the top of that and take pictures of them.\\n\\n If I spotted some famous person in another [area], I’d say, “Sir, may I take your picture?” I was all over the place. They had boxes down there, so that when the launch went off your camera would automatically take pictures. I could be with others going around. One of the funniest things that ever happened, I was on my way out. There was this big wide walkway, and a whole bunch of people were coming. They were trying to interview some guy in the front. I was on the side as they came [by]. I walked over, and I said, “May I take your picture?” He starts doing all this. [Demonstrates] I said, “And what’s your name?” He looked at me. He was the governor of California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oops."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t recognize him. That put him in his place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the invites to the splashdown parties from the wives? Just because you knew all those folks?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.299254429341396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it could be about a couple ofthings. Anything to do with looted art, cultural restitution, that has been a major area of my personal and professional focus, I've had a number of publications in the area, I've had the opportunity to participate in international forums on the topic as part ofthe American delegation to these conferences ...so, anything in that area, certainly. Archival management, definitely. Those are the kind of areas that I think that would make sense to have me involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk for a moment about your work at the University of Maryland, where you've been an adjunct professor for many years now. Your work there has certainly shaped a number ofNARA employees, because we tend to cherry-pick them over here fairly frequently. How did the idea of that management course come to fruition for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I really owe to Frank Burke. Frank was in charge over there of the archival program and he suggested to me that maybe I might want to come and teach a summer course on management. I thought, \"well, OK\", so with some hesitation, I started and gradually that evolved into a focus on managing cultural institutions, and then kind of more zeroing in on now managing archives. And so, the credit for the concept and the credit for the idea goes to Frank Burke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know at least two NARA staff members who met in your class and married ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and have had children as a result ofit! Now that's really touching people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even my wife remarks about when she was in your class, as well."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.999171588157107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I really owe to Frank Burke. Frank was in charge over there of the archival program and he suggested to me that maybe I might want to come and teach a summer course on management. I thought, \"well, OK\", so with some hesitation, I started and gradually that evolved into a focus on managing cultural institutions, and then kind of more zeroing in on now managing archives. And so, the credit for the concept and the credit for the idea goes to Frank Burke."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know at least two NARA staff members who met in your class and married ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and have had children as a result ofit! Now that's really touching people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even my wife remarks about when she was in your class, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? Ok, when was she in there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She had her library degree many years ago, probably in the late 80's early 90's."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.999079542396785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and have had children as a result ofit! Now that's really touching people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And even my wife remarks about when she was in your class, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? Ok, when was she in there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She had her library degree many years ago, probably in the late 80's early 90's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh ...ok well I started in 90, so ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel are the biggest challenges facing the National Archives today?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 13.825384489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes! You're quite welcome!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've talked a little bit about, sort of, NARA's reputation with the federal agencies..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "....Mmmhmm ...."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... and you've certainly talked and commented about the evolution of that relationship. How do you see our reputation now, and where do we need to be in the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it's much stronger now, in two areas. One is records management, which I mentioned; I think we're seen as, really serious partners; as an agency trying to provide guidance, trying to get ahead of all the technological curves that keep coming up as far as communications goes; doing interesting projects that have relevance to agencies; and taking initiatives like the Big Bucket schedules, which while controversial here at NARA, are well received, actually, in the federal community. I think, in the declassification arena, I think we are seen as having successfully stepped up to the NDC plate and so we've got now the authority that we have never had; not complete, not absolute, far from it. Agencies decide ultimately on whether an item is classified or not, but we're running the process. We are not, you know, the poor cousins and so we are not only at the table, we're at the head ofthe table and that's an incredible change. So, I would see in the future, building on that and just, you know, one of the Transformation goals is to be an agency ofleaders and I think in these areas, we need to continue that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NARA seems to get its fair share of knocks in the press. As you say with the Clinton hard drive, we get a lot of bad press for things that go wrong. C<,rtainly we're doing some things right. What are we doing right? What should we be getting better credit for? What could we be doing differently to help improve the reputation?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.83049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In March of 1974 ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... Isn't that when you started?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is indeed. Well, I think I mentioned what I was told. Umm ... that's a hard question because I'm trying to I guess imagine myself as a mature professional at that point in time..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... What is the piece of advice that you wished you had had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, ok, ok ...."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... What would you tell the new hire today?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it is indeed. Well, I think I mentioned what I was told. Umm ... that's a hard question because I'm trying to I guess imagine myself as a mature professional at that point in time..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... What is the piece of advice that you wished you had had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, ok, ok ...."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... What would you tell the new hire today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No one told me, no one told us, how important of a place we were coming to. No one talked about the mission. I'll be perfectly frank. I don't think many of the people here, at that point in time, thought this was an important place. I think it was considered and felt to be a backwater. I think many people felt they were in a backwater. I think a lot of managers at that time felt that their careers were really second best to being academics. I never wanted to be one so this was not a problem of mine. No one talked about the mission. Why it's important to work at the National Archives. Why it's worth a lifetime of commitment. That's what was missing and that was huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does the 30 second commercial for the National Archives sound like?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, ok, ok ...."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... What would you tell the new hire today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No one told me, no one told us, how important of a place we were coming to. No one talked about the mission. I'll be perfectly frank. I don't think many of the people here, at that point in time, thought this was an important place. I think it was considered and felt to be a backwater. I think many people felt they were in a backwater. I think a lot of managers at that time felt that their careers were really second best to being academics. I never wanted to be one so this was not a problem of mine. No one talked about the mission. Why it's important to work at the National Archives. Why it's worth a lifetime of commitment. That's what was missing and that was huge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does the 30 second commercial for the National Archives sound like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well,jingles and those kinds of things are not my strength but I would say it somehow has to connect the citizen, the viewer, to the Archives. You know, we say, and it's true, that everyone's in the National Archives. And I think that's the way to reach people. I leave it to the marketing gurus about how to package that but I think that's the point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ifthere was some story that you wanted to tell, that you didn't think you've had an opportunity to tell over the last hour or so, what's missing from this interview?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well,jingles and those kinds of things are not my strength but I would say it somehow has to connect the citizen, the viewer, to the Archives. You know, we say, and it's true, that everyone's in the National Archives. And I think that's the way to reach people. I leave it to the marketing gurus about how to package that but I think that's the point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ifthere was some story that you wanted to tell, that you didn't think you've had an opportunity to tell over the last hour or so, what's missing from this interview?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, many years ago when I working out at Suitland doing my dissertation, doing research, going through gazillion boxes, thousands of them, I came across, I had a box and it was material obviously seized by the Nazi secret police and obviously captured by the American Army. And I was just going through it, you know, just going through it and there was a diary of a man who, in Berlin, who was waiting to be arrested the next day and that would be the end of him and suddenly all of these boxes and folders and all the policy I was trying to track about what we did with looted property and all that, became human, it became human and that had a really strong impact on me. And so, we kind of can lose track of that... the human dimension."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's important?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's critical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, those are all my questions. Thank you very much for sitting with us and I think that we've had a really great interview."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's critical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, those are all my questions. Thank you very much for sitting with us and I think that we've had a really great interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate it and I've enjoyed every bit of it. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you get everything covered you wanted, John?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, yeah I went through all of my questions ..."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate it and I've enjoyed every bit of it. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you get everything covered you wanted, John?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, yeah I went through all of my questions ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...They were good questions. They were very good questions. I don't think there is anything that I did not say that I wanted to say. Um ... I..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... You didn't say anything that you want to restrict?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you get everything covered you wanted, John?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think, yeah I went through all of my questions ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...They were good questions. They were very good questions. I don't think there is anything that I did not say that I wanted to say. Um ... I..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... You didn't say anything that you want to restrict?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, actually, not at all. I thought the thing on the three archivists was a challenge, but I think I did them justice ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "...That was a very diplomatic explanation."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00010:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...They were good questions. They were very good questions. I don't think there is anything that I did not say that I wanted to say. Um ... I..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... You didn't say anything that you want to restrict?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, actually, not at all. I thought the thing on the three archivists was a challenge, but I think I did them justice ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "...That was a very diplomatic explanation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's true. How effective they've been ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "... We're still recording ..."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.234533053708509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hi. Okay. The year before I was in the Peace Corps, I was on the George McGovern Shriver campaign. I was national campaign staff in New Jersey, and I had started out in western Pennsylvania on the campaign staff. And then we followed the campaign. I went to New Jersey, I went to New York, I went to Michigan. And I was supposed to have gone to Keene, New Hampshire, but it snowed that day, so I didn't get to go to the, to the primary for that day. So that was what I was doing that up to November. And then I applied and the Malaysia group was going in September. So I just kind of hung around there for a few months. I was at home and I was working and I was waiting to go into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go back to, uh, earlier in your life, um. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Vandergrift, Pennsylvania, a small town near Pittsburgh. And my dad worked in a mill. My mother was a homemaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what size family did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have two sisters, and I have a brother who's 16 years younger than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh. Did you really have any kind of international experience or exposure, you know, during the time you were growing up with your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.482814504120565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, Vandergrift, Pennsylvania, a small town near Pittsburgh. And my dad worked in a mill. My mother was a homemaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what size family did you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have two sisters, and I have a brother who's 16 years younger than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh. Did you really have any kind of international experience or exposure, you know, during the time you were growing up with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. No. My aunt had, you know, gone to Europe on, you know, one of those trips, but that was the only one that, that ever, you know, left the country in those years. That was in the '60s. So, you know, things were pretty tight in those days. So people didn't, didn't travel that I knew very much about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to high school in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.758682782356184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have two sisters, and I have a brother who's 16 years younger than I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh. Did you really have any kind of international experience or exposure, you know, during the time you were growing up with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. No. My aunt had, you know, gone to Europe on, you know, one of those trips, but that was the only one that, that ever, you know, left the country in those years. That was in the '60s. So, you know, things were pretty tight in those days. So people didn't, didn't travel that I knew very much about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to high school in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Kiski Area [School District] in Vandergrift, yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. During high school, did you study a foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.731869758173538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. No. My aunt had, you know, gone to Europe on, you know, one of those trips, but that was the only one that, that ever, you know, left the country in those years. That was in the '60s. So, you know, things were pretty tight in those days. So people didn't, didn't travel that I knew very much about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to high school in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Kiski Area [School District] in Vandergrift, yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. During high school, did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I had, I had, what, three years of Spanish and four years of German altogether. And, um, not, not very good at any of them, either of them, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about extracurricular activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.70207750908171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Kiski Area [School District] in Vandergrift, yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. During high school, did you study a foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I had, I had, what, three years of Spanish and four years of German altogether. And, um, not, not very good at any of them, either of them, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, I was, you know, just determined to go to college. And that was, you know, basically, you know, what I did in those days was, you know, make sure I got a scholarship. So I was a full ride at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your family took vacations were, what kind of trips did you take?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.780086121201899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I had, I had, what, three years of Spanish and four years of German altogether. And, um, not, not very good at any of them, either of them, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, I was, you know, just determined to go to college. And that was, you know, basically, you know, what I did in those days was, you know, make sure I got a scholarship. So I was a full ride at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your family took vacations were, what kind of trips did you take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never took vacations. My dad worked. You know, there was, there was a long period where there wasn't any money for things at all, much less going places. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first in your family to go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.97787346800211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was, I was, you know, just determined to go to college. And that was, you know, basically, you know, what I did in those days was, you know, make sure I got a scholarship. So I was a full ride at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When your family took vacations were, what kind of trips did you take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never took vacations. My dad worked. You know, there was, there was a long period where there wasn't any money for things at all, much less going places. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first in your family to go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my aunt went to college and my uncles did. So, you know, on that side. On the other side, my dad's side, no. None of, none of his brothers or sisters went to college. But my mother, her sister and her brothers went to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you thinking when you went into college about a particular career?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.197637186669011, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never took vacations. My dad worked. You know, there was, there was a long period where there wasn't any money for things at all, much less going places. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the first in your family to go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my aunt went to college and my uncles did. So, you know, on that side. On the other side, my dad's side, no. None of, none of his brothers or sisters went to college. But my mother, her sister and her brothers went to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you thinking when you went into college about a particular career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a biology major, and, you know, I did pretty, I did okay my first two years. And then after that I got involved in student government, and I was having too much fun. So, you know, my grades were okay. I graduated, but, you know, I just wasn't that serious about it. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, in college, uh, extracurricular activities, student government."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.552930207410013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my aunt went to college and my uncles did. So, you know, on that side. On the other side, my dad's side, no. None of, none of his brothers or sisters went to college. But my mother, her sister and her brothers went to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you thinking when you went into college about a particular career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a biology major, and, you know, I did pretty, I did okay my first two years. And then after that I got involved in student government, and I was having too much fun. So, you know, my grades were okay. I graduated, but, you know, I just wasn't that serious about it. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, in college, uh, extracurricular activities, student government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And anything else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.058811341566681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a biology major, and, you know, I did pretty, I did okay my first two years. And then after that I got involved in student government, and I was having too much fun. So, you know, my grades were okay. I graduated, but, you know, I just wasn't that serious about it. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, in college, uh, extracurricular activities, student government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And anything else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I was in a service sorority. Yeah, that was about it. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the summertime during college, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.732012601740756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And anything else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I was in a service sorority. Yeah, that was about it. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the summertime during college, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to work. Yeah, I had to, you know, I had to have money. I mean, I had like, no, no spending money at all. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.257791779711951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I was in a service sorority. Yeah, that was about it. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in the summertime during college, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to work. Yeah, I had to, you know, I had to have money. I mean, I had like, no, no spending money at all. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had one friend that did go the year after college. He must have been a year ahead of me. And so everybody always talked about how David had gone. I think he went to Nepal, I believe. So it was kind of interesting. You know, I kind of thought about it from, from that time, when I was a senior in college. And I had friends who had, who were able to go. There was a professor that took, you know, students on trips and, and they were able to go. And so I was always very jealous that they got to go to Germany with the, with the professor. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you thought about the Peace Corps as a way of getting?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.953101977457724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to work. Yeah, I had to, you know, I had to have money. I mean, I had like, no, no spending money at all. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you become aware of the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had one friend that did go the year after college. He must have been a year ahead of me. And so everybody always talked about how David had gone. I think he went to Nepal, I believe. So it was kind of interesting. You know, I kind of thought about it from, from that time, when I was a senior in college. And I had friends who had, who were able to go. There was a professor that took, you know, students on trips and, and they were able to go. And so I was always very jealous that they got to go to Germany with the, with the professor. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you thought about the Peace Corps as a way of getting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to do, yeah, get away. Yeah, get out, get away. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leave Pennsylvania and see the world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.836779974953025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had one friend that did go the year after college. He must have been a year ahead of me. And so everybody always talked about how David had gone. I think he went to Nepal, I believe. So it was kind of interesting. You know, I kind of thought about it from, from that time, when I was a senior in college. And I had friends who had, who were able to go. There was a professor that took, you know, students on trips and, and they were able to go. And so I was always very jealous that they got to go to Germany with the, with the professor. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you thought about the Peace Corps as a way of getting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to do, yeah, get away. Yeah, get out, get away. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leave Pennsylvania and see the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When, uh, when you applied did you have to take any kind of entrance exam? Do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.033061697472867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When, uh, when you applied did you have to take any kind of entrance exam? Do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anything like that. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all paper, you know, in those days, '72, it was all paper, paperwork. So '71, '72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you express a preference for any particular country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 22.258957441636518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anything like that. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all paper, you know, in those days, '72, it was all paper, paperwork. So '71, '72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you express a preference for any particular country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I said anything. And in fact, I was kind of scheduled to go to Uganda, and that was the year that, uh, you know, there were, there was a lot of problems there. And somehow that, that particular, um, you know, group just didn't go or something. And then they said Malaysia. I said, oh, sure, whatever. You know. So that's why I ended up in Malaysia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted into the Peace Corps. And, uh, when did your training start?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.509952712929465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was all paper, you know, in those days, '72, it was all paper, paperwork. So '71, '72."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you express a preference for any particular country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I said anything. And in fact, I was kind of scheduled to go to Uganda, and that was the year that, uh, you know, there were, there was a lot of problems there. And somehow that, that particular, um, you know, group just didn't go or something. And then they said Malaysia. I said, oh, sure, whatever. You know. So that's why I ended up in Malaysia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were accepted into the Peace Corps. And, uh, when did your training start?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, September '73. We went right to, in fact. Well, we went to, it was, um, the staging was in San Jose, California, and we were there for about a few days, three or 4 or 5 days. And then on the trip over, um, they were talking to the people on the plane and they said to me, do you want to go on a side group or something? And I said, yeah. And they said Sabah. I said, where's that? So I said, okay, I'll do it. And so they took 14 of us to Sabah, which at those in those days was kind of a sensitive area. It kind of still is. Um, the, uh, Indonesia and Malaysia have a border on Kalimantan and Borneo, and they had, really had been kind of a war in that area. Not, not exactly where I was, but, uh, Sarawak, which is south.\n\nAnd so, um, it was very sensitive for Peace Corps volunteers to be in that, that area. So they wanted to make sure they had, you know, I don't know, I was a little bit more mature or something that, that they picked up, you know, the 14 of us to go to Sabah that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in your staging, did you have a few vaccinations or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.194722514306536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything like that. I just remember talking to the psychologist that I would, I was, you know, my mother was very upset. My dad was so upset. And, you know, my dad said certain things. And, um, you know, to me about don't go and, and so I was kind of crying and in San Jose and the psychologist talked to me and it was real good. And, you know, then I, you know, I got on the plane and went. But the punch line to that story is when I got home, my sisters told me that my dad spent the whole two years bragging all over town that his daughter was in Asia so. So it shows you, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But their initial reaction was less than positive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they didn't want me to go. No. Uh uh. Bloom where you are planted, that was the card my mother sent me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh. So you did your training in country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was interesting because, like I said, there were 14 of us, and it was supposedly, I don't know if it's true, but this is '73, which is very high inflationary times. And we were on an island, which makes it even worse, right? And so the 14 of us went, you know, to be trained and they had to buy everything for us, like bikes and, and every, you know, literally everything. And supposedly, again, it was supposed to be one of the most expensive trainings per volunteer. But I don't know if that's true. But we were in a, um, we were way out in the country. It was beautiful. Uh, but it was a kind of a compound. Um, and it was for the blind people or orang buta. And so they, you know, they kind of laughed at the white people, you know, the Americans, the white, the white people were the blind people. So that was kind of, you know, the joke at the time. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were was your group the first one in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.05521298062535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was interesting because, like I said, there were 14 of us, and it was supposedly, I don't know if it's true, but this is '73, which is very high inflationary times. And we were on an island, which makes it even worse, right? And so the 14 of us went, you know, to be trained and they had to buy everything for us, like bikes and, and every, you know, literally everything. And supposedly, again, it was supposed to be one of the most expensive trainings per volunteer. But I don't know if that's true. But we were in a, um, we were way out in the country. It was beautiful. Uh, but it was a kind of a compound. Um, and it was for the blind people or orang buta. And so they, you know, they kind of laughed at the white people, you know, the Americans, the white, the white people were the blind people. So that was kind of, you know, the joke at the time. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were was your group the first one in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there had been volunteers in Sabah, but they were long gone. This was like kind of a reentry group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in fact, one of our volunteers, um, well, it was kind of a, kind of what happened was the trainers kind of encouraged us to, you know, talk to the government officials. And this one young lady got real friendly with the governor's daughter. And so she was always going there and staying there. And they, you know, got real friendly. And at some point I don't know what happened, but she was expelled from the country. And I think it was because of her friendship with the governor's daughter. So it was kind of, kind of a weird situation. But nobody else ever had any problems like that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, in comparing yourself to the others in the training group, what were they like compared to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.283569978472611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there had been volunteers in Sabah, but they were long gone. This was like kind of a reentry group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in fact, one of our volunteers, um, well, it was kind of a, kind of what happened was the trainers kind of encouraged us to, you know, talk to the government officials. And this one young lady got real friendly with the governor's daughter. And so she was always going there and staying there. And they, you know, got real friendly. And at some point I don't know what happened, but she was expelled from the country. And I think it was because of her friendship with the governor's daughter. So it was kind of, kind of a weird situation. But nobody else ever had any problems like that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, in comparing yourself to the others in the training group, what were they like compared to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was a little bit older. I was a couple years older than most of them. Uh, but we were all science or math majors. So, uh, and then a few of us got, I got sent to an English language, English speaking school. So I taught science, and I taught biology and physics in English, and many of them got sent to Malay speaking schools. And they really learned the language, you know, of course, when they had to do it every day. So I was kind of spoiled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, and about how many were in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.648411087191791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in fact, one of our volunteers, um, well, it was kind of a, kind of what happened was the trainers kind of encouraged us to, you know, talk to the government officials. And this one young lady got real friendly with the governor's daughter. And so she was always going there and staying there. And they, you know, got real friendly. And at some point I don't know what happened, but she was expelled from the country. And I think it was because of her friendship with the governor's daughter. So it was kind of, kind of a weird situation. But nobody else ever had any problems like that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, uh, in comparing yourself to the others in the training group, what were they like compared to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was a little bit older. I was a couple years older than most of them. Uh, but we were all science or math majors. So, uh, and then a few of us got, I got sent to an English language, English speaking school. So I taught science, and I taught biology and physics in English, and many of them got sent to Malay speaking schools. And they really learned the language, you know, of course, when they had to do it every day. So I was kind of spoiled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, and about how many were in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had 14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nAnd what was the mix of men and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.942678985768657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was a little bit older. I was a couple years older than most of them. Uh, but we were all science or math majors. So, uh, and then a few of us got, I got sent to an English language, English speaking school. So I taught science, and I taught biology and physics in English, and many of them got sent to Malay speaking schools. And they really learned the language, you know, of course, when they had to do it every day. So I was kind of spoiled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, and about how many were in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had 14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay.\n\nAnd what was the mix of men and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was uh, it was four women and the rest were men. Yeah. And of the 14, um, nine of us finished two years. Seven of them went, uh, four years. And a couple of the men who married local women stayed, you know, seven, eight, nine years long altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Uh, nobody was married at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.978616031813155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was uh, it was four women and the rest were men. Yeah. And of the 14, um, nine of us finished two years. Seven of them went, uh, four years. And a couple of the men who married local women stayed, you know, seven, eight, nine years long altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. Uh, nobody was married at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we were all single. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No couples in that group, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody in the group, had you, have any teacher, uh, training or teaching experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.754017813125728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we were all single. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No couples in that group, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody in the group, had you, have any teacher, uh, training or teaching experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe so, no. I think we were all math science majors and, you know, and that. And I'm not, I can't. Well, yeah, actually, um, you know, it's kind of the same format for universities now, um. If you're an education major, that's your major. And then you take science courses. Whereas if you're a science major, you don't take any education courses, you just take science, right? So that's, that was the model for all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, what kind of facility was it where you were trained?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.726686459028585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No couples in that group, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody in the group, had you, have any teacher, uh, training or teaching experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe so, no. I think we were all math science majors and, you know, and that. And I'm not, I can't. Well, yeah, actually, um, you know, it's kind of the same format for universities now, um. If you're an education major, that's your major. And then you take science courses. Whereas if you're a science major, you don't take any education courses, you just take science, right? So that's, that was the model for all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, what kind of facility was it where you were trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where we trained? Well, like I said, it was this kind of compound way out in the country and, um, uh, you know, uh, with, uh, squat toilets and no running water in the, in the houses. Nice little houses. And, um, we had, uh, some people that brought in food for us, so it was kind of primitive. We were a little bit far out from the town, so we had to have the bikes to get into the little town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And what was the little name of the little town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.80742939892065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't believe so, no. I think we were all math science majors and, you know, and that. And I'm not, I can't. Well, yeah, actually, um, you know, it's kind of the same format for universities now, um. If you're an education major, that's your major. And then you take science courses. Whereas if you're a science major, you don't take any education courses, you just take science, right? So that's, that was the model for all of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, what kind of facility was it where you were trained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where we trained? Well, like I said, it was this kind of compound way out in the country and, um, uh, you know, uh, with, uh, squat toilets and no running water in the, in the houses. Nice little houses. And, um, we had, uh, some people that brought in food for us, so it was kind of primitive. We were a little bit far out from the town, so we had to have the bikes to get into the little town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And what was the little name of the little town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Tuaran. Tuaran in Sabah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And who was running the training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 23.11936599880072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where we trained? Well, like I said, it was this kind of compound way out in the country and, um, uh, you know, uh, with, uh, squat toilets and no running water in the, in the houses. Nice little houses. And, um, we had, uh, some people that brought in food for us, so it was kind of primitive. We were a little bit far out from the town, so we had to have the bikes to get into the little town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see. And what was the little name of the little town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Tuaran. Tuaran in Sabah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And who was running the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was staff. And then of course, there were local staff. One of those people was on the Facebook page now, which is kind of amazing to me because, you know, in those days when we left, I mean, we left, right? It was, you know, there was hardly any way to get in touch with people except by, by mail. But now, you know, I see their pictures and it's kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um. Your schedule in training, how did that work out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.799295554223022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Tuaran. Tuaran in Sabah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And who was running the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was staff. And then of course, there were local staff. One of those people was on the Facebook page now, which is kind of amazing to me because, you know, in those days when we left, I mean, we left, right? It was, you know, there was hardly any way to get in touch with people except by, by mail. But now, you know, I see their pictures and it's kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um. Your schedule in training, how did that work out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was good. We had a, you know, the language and we had teacher training, kind of a, you know, rudimentary, you know, how to make a lesson plan and, and a little bit about, you know, the system in Malaysia is based on the, the English system, right? So I taught form four, form five, which is roughly 10th and 11th grades. Except that sometimes the students have to go for bridge class for a couple of years, which is language. So after, say, sixth grade, they might have a couple extra years in there to try to shift over from Chinese to English or Malay to English or whatever. Um, so anyway, um, that was our training, it was a mixture.\n\nAnd we had of course, we had a homestay, I had a wonderful homestay. Um, and the people were really, they were very nice to me. They were always, they, every couple of months, as you know, through the two, through the years I was there. Every few months they would come and take me to something or a party or take me to their house. So that was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you're, you really didn't have to have any language training or did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.18970583569687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, we had Bahasa. Yeah, I had language. Yeah, yeah. But when I taught in the English speaking school, I didn't really practice it as much. Um, and then, but, but then it's funny, you know, Malaysia's, you know, they had so, so many. I mean, they had the advantage of having really high level of English. But yet my school a few years after that turned into a Malay language school. So somehow, you know, they have this, you know, kind of flip flopping where they, you know, you know, they have the English, but then they say, well, we want Bahasa, we want Malay language. And so it's kind of, um, you know, they kind of gave away that advantage because then, you know, now, I mean, anybody that speaks English, right, in the, you know, the high tech world is, it's a very big advantage. So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What was, uh, the method of teaching language, conversation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, it was the, uh. Yeah, it was the repair repeat, the basic Peace Corps. Um, there's probably a term for that, but, yeah, we would sit in a circle and repeat, repeat, repeat. So that was really good. I really learned it very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you do any student teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, yep. We had a week at a school. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you feel confident going into your assignment that you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.766339817440967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, it was the, uh. Yeah, it was the repair repeat, the basic Peace Corps. Um, there's probably a term for that, but, yeah, we would sit in a circle and repeat, repeat, repeat. So that was really good. I really learned it very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you do any student teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, yep. We had a week at a school. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you feel confident going into your assignment that you were?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did, yeah, I liked it. Um, my school was kind of the, kind of the odd school out for some reason. Um, there were kind of quotes the better schools in that area. And my school was, um, when, when I first got there, we were sharing with another school, which was kind of the, you know, the upper, you know, the more, more advanced school. And they had, they had the facility in the morning and we had it from 1:00 to 6:00. And 1:00 to 6:00 in Malaysia is like killer, right? You know, the heat is just unbelievable. And then about six months into it, the new school was ready and it was brand new. It was beautiful. And it was built with funds from the World Bank. See, Malaysia in those days was developing. And so they were, you know, using this World Bank funds to, to expand their, their school system.\n\nSo the school is still there. They had a compound for the teachers, that's gone. There's like a ten story building in that spot right now. So it's kind of kind of, you know, weird to think about it, that my little house is gone. It was brand, everything, like I said, was brand new in those days. New equipment, all new wonderful science equipment, unbelievable science equipment. Much of which, you know, we didn't even, we couldn't even use. But it was all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody from Peace Corps Washington show up during your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.329684248890214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, I don't remember anybody. Um, I mean, we had the, the local, um, you know, our, our director. I'm not even sure the country director ever came. I don't believe so. I think one of the, we had, like, a state director or something, that was there for a while. And then he left, and then I don't think there was anybody in my state that was Peace Corps. I think it was, uh, Kuching in Sarawak, the next state, had, had an office. We never had a Peace Corps office where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was your, uh, assigned school in relation to the training site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Kota Kinabalu was, is the capital, and Tuaran was, say, 25 miles north of Kota Kinabalu. And so the other volunteers were scattered all over the state."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, did they ask if you were interested in a particular area or you just take whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was just. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, you know, when they asked me to go to this, you know, side group and I said yes. And so we were in Kuala Lumpur for a day or two, and then we just went, then we flew over to, um, to Borneo, to Sabah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said you, you spoke with a psychologist in California before you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.921871387655793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Kota Kinabalu was, is the capital, and Tuaran was, say, 25 miles north of Kota Kinabalu. And so the other volunteers were scattered all over the state."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, did they ask if you were interested in a particular area or you just take whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was just. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, you know, when they asked me to go to this, you know, side group and I said yes. And so we were in Kuala Lumpur for a day or two, and then we just went, then we flew over to, um, to Borneo, to Sabah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said you, you spoke with a psychologist in California before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any psychological component to the training in country or no?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.690968208506437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was just. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, you know, when they asked me to go to this, you know, side group and I said yes. And so we were in Kuala Lumpur for a day or two, and then we just went, then we flew over to, um, to Borneo, to Sabah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said you, you spoke with a psychologist in California before you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any psychological component to the training in country or no?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anything like that. No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, was everybody that came over, did they all successfully complete the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.65663134278493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any psychological component to the training in country or no?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anything like that. No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, was everybody that came over, did they all successfully complete the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I said, the one young lady that was expelled. And one guy wanted to go to Nepal, he was determined to go and, um, you know, he, he got, he got himself transferred. He finished up successfully in Nepal. And one guy was kind of let go and one other guy something. He just, he never finished. So most, like I said, most of us, that was, that was. Nine of us finished out of the original 14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Finish the training or finished?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.729590380872143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anything like that. No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, was everybody that came over, did they all successfully complete the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I said, the one young lady that was expelled. And one guy wanted to go to Nepal, he was determined to go and, um, you know, he, he got, he got himself transferred. He finished up successfully in Nepal. And one guy was kind of let go and one other guy something. He just, he never finished. So most, like I said, most of us, that was, that was. Nine of us finished out of the original 14."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Finish the training or finished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, finished the two years. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the two years. Right. Okay. Did you have any contact with home during the training period?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.435652099961786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just letters, just, you know, airmail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it. Yeah. That's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you become friends with any of the folks in your training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.48405788884643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it. Yeah. That's all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you become friends with any of the folks in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're on the Facebook page. Yeah, but now they're all scattered around the country. We, we got together a couple of years ago, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And how long did the training last until?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.648953209829365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you become friends with any of the folks in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're on the Facebook page. Yeah, but now they're all scattered around the country. We, we got together a couple of years ago, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And how long did the training last until?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The three months. Regular, right, three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did, at the end of it, did you have a swearing in ceremony or did everybody just say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 33.517226184974525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The three months. Regular, right, three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did, at the end of it, did you have a swearing in ceremony or did everybody just say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gee I can't remember that at all. Sorry. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you know, you were saying about our contact. When my grandmother died, you know, they don't send you home for grandmothers, right? And so they came to tell me and, um, so I had to call home. So in 27 months, I tell my, I tell my students this at Wesleyan, where I teach, that I called home one time in 27 months. And in those days, what you had to do was, well, there was a phone at the school, but I, you know, I didn't know how to use it. So one of the other teachers said, you can use my phone. So I went to her house and I had to make an appointment. You had to make an appointment with the overseas operator. And so I made the appointment and the appointment's for the next day from noon to five. And so I went back to her house the next day and waited, you know, and the operator calls you to make that connection because it all had to be, you know, literally plugged in, you know, everybody had to, to make the connection. And I must have paid her for it. And I can't remember how I paid for it. But that was one call I made in 27 months when I called home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. So the flight was from where in California to where?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.38687118575602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kuala Lumpur, yeah. I'm sorry, I don't remember that. I remember waking up in the, you know, in the middle of the night, of course, jet lag and the smells and the people and, and it was this kind of old fashioned hotel. I do remember that the, the old, the old style hotel where they had us. And I, you know, I was groggy and my roommate and we were kind of groggy and we woke up in the middle of the night and kind of looked around, and I think we went outside and walked around a little bit. But, you know, that was our first impression was, you know, jet lag."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you were able to get by pretty much just using English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. All Malaysia is very. And it's like I said, especially in those days because it was a colony up till '63. It was a British colony. And um, so there was, you know, you know, most people spoke English. Yeah. In the bazaar, you could get, you know, you could, you could use your Malay, but you really didn't need it that much. And like I said, my school was all English speaking school, English speaking, you know, teachers. The instruction was all in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at your school, you were the only volunteer there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a Canadian, a CUSO, Canadian University Services Overseas. And, you know, she, she had just departed. I, when I went there for the visit, um, you know, I stayed with her and then she was done. She was kind of a funny, funny lady, but, um, then she went to Indonesia and she was determined that she was going to start a preschool or something there. And of course, that didn't work out for her, so I don't know what she did after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And while you were at your school, um, you had. Yeah, they had a telephone in case of an emergency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.64548096152967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, like I said, I had a brand new house. It was beautiful. It was a nice little, you know, no air conditioning. It had, you know, water and, you know, sewer, of course, but, um, you know, screened in bedrooms and, um, you know, kitchen. And it was a kind of nice little wooden house, up on stilts, of course, you know, um, to keep, you know, animals and bugs away. And so we, you know, I had. It was a three bedroom house, and they put two other teachers in with me and the Peace Corps, of course, paid for that. So those, those two ladies were happy because they didn't pay, you know, the year they lived with me. So that was kind of nice. And it was, like I said, it was a little compound, ten houses built purpose for, for teachers at that school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, were the, were your roommates, um, nationals of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they were Sabahans. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was division three government housing, right? There was one division one house, which was very nice and. Oh, no, I had division two house that was kind of in the middle. Then division three was like a little bit less, less nice, you know. So they had it all, all worked out for government housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did it have electricity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.38386773503297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they were Sabahans. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was division three government housing, right? There was one division one house, which was very nice and. Oh, no, I had division two house that was kind of in the middle. Then division three was like a little bit less, less nice, you know. So they had it all, all worked out for government housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did it have electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it furnished?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.426519705592188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was division three government housing, right? There was one division one house, which was very nice and. Oh, no, I had division two house that was kind of in the middle. Then division three was like a little bit less, less nice, you know. So they had it all, all worked out for government housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did it have electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it furnished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So would you say it was, uh, pretty comfortable accommodation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.029466339546875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it furnished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. So would you say it was, uh, pretty comfortable accommodation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was very nice. Yeah. Yeah. But like I said, there's no air conditioning and those. I think now there's malls and everything in that, in that city. It's like amazing. But that's what I said when, uh, when Joanne and I would go to this, it was istimewa, uh, restaurant, and that was air conditioned. That was like the one hour a week that that we would sit in the air conditioning. Um, but you get used to it in Malaysia, you know, it's very hot during the day, but it cools off at night. So it's not like, like North Carolina. You cannot sleep in here in North Carolina at night with, you know, without air. But over there, I mean, the evenings were 70. There was a couple of nights I might have put a sweater on because it got so cool. And of course, in the tropics, the, you know, the sun. What's the, you know, I guess, Kipling. The sun crashes down. I forget the direct quote. But there's hardly any dusk and hardly any dawn, you know? So it's like really dark, you know, and gets cooled off really fast at night. So it was very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do all your shopping and cooking and cleaning?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.969775758418578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't, no, I didn't really have to. I did it at some points, but there was no, no rule about homework or tests or anything. No. I think I did, I can't remember exactly, but I must have done some kind of quizzes. Um, but there was no rules or anything. There was no, you know, minimum. Just get them ready for this Cambridge exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was everybody's objective to try to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the O-levels. Yeah, yeah. And then, then, then if they got to form six then they would take A-levels, which is advanced. And that was, that was really university level work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the school calendar like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very nice. We started in January and it was three semesters. Three, uh, three sessions, I guess. Um, and in between would be a two week break, which is really nice. And we were done in November, say? Mid November. And that was the end of the school year, was November. So that worked out great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school year was more like a calendar year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.188639731576195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the O-levels. Yeah, yeah. And then, then, then if they got to form six then they would take A-levels, which is advanced. And that was, that was really university level work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the school calendar like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very nice. We started in January and it was three semesters. Three, uh, three sessions, I guess. Um, and in between would be a two week break, which is really nice. And we were done in November, say? Mid November. And that was the end of the school year, was November. So that worked out great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school year was more like a calendar year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of overlapping like we do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.43182192397355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very nice. We started in January and it was three semesters. Three, uh, three sessions, I guess. Um, and in between would be a two week break, which is really nice. And we were done in November, say? Mid November. And that was the end of the school year, was November. So that worked out great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school year was more like a calendar year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of overlapping like we do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we had these two week breaks that we traveled. I went to Indonesia, I went to Thailand, I went to Singapore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.924246582192833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Instead of overlapping like we do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we had these two week breaks that we traveled. I went to Indonesia, I went to Thailand, I went to Singapore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a great part. Yeah. And all around, all around Sabah too. There was, you know, we made trips around, around the state as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't handle any discipline?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.36027398021426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then we had these two week breaks that we traveled. I went to Indonesia, I went to Thailand, I went to Singapore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a great part. Yeah. And all around, all around Sabah too. There was, you know, we made trips around, around the state as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't handle any discipline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, teachers didn't do anything like that. Nope. Never. I never had any. I had problems with one boy. One time he was kind of mouthing off to me and the and the other, the Chinese lady said, oh, he's, you know, he's different, he's from the north, and his family. What, the north of China, you know? And his, his, probably, his, you know, it was like a hundred years ago that, you know, his family emigrated. Uh, but she was still kind of saying it's kind of like, you know, Italians talk about Sicilians or something. It was very weird. Uh, but, but again, you know, I didn't have any, you know, it was no big deal. I mean, he was just mouthing off to me, and somehow it just went away. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, uh, once you got to the school and started teaching, were you fairly comfortable right away, or did it take a while to get comfortable?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.754761902106928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, that was just, that was it. Yeah. Then everybody went home. And like I said, this was kind of the, you know, like I said, the poorer school, you know, poorer school, uh, in those days so that, you know, just kind of the extra school that, you know, that they didn't really, you know, spend a lot of time on, except that we had this beautiful new building that was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like you got to know the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. Um, they were, they were, you know, high school kids, right? And like I said, there weren't that many. I mean, I didn't have that many in my classes because, you know, so many of them had, you know, failed the, the exam that, that year. It was kind of a scandal, really, not a scandal, but, you know, sad in a way, you know, that they had lost so many kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had one group of kids for a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, form four and then. Yeah. And then I followed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd take the exam."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.283068780118809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. Um, they were, they were, you know, high school kids, right? And like I said, there weren't that many. I mean, I didn't have that many in my classes because, you know, so many of them had, you know, failed the, the exam that, that year. It was kind of a scandal, really, not a scandal, but, you know, sad in a way, you know, that they had lost so many kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had one group of kids for a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, form four and then. Yeah. And then I followed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd take the exam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.87007642235423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, form four and then. Yeah. And then I followed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd take the exam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was with the form. Well, I taught four, I taught all the science, I taught all the biology for form four and form five. But my homeroom was, was four, and then I followed them to five. And then, then I was done, right? That was my second year, and that was all. So that when they finished my, when, when my homeroom finished, then I was done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you become friendly with any of the host country nationals?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.633418247060256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was with the form. Well, I taught four, I taught all the science, I taught all the biology for form four and form five. But my homeroom was, was four, and then I followed them to five. And then, then I was done, right? That was my second year, and that was all. So that when they finished my, when, when my homeroom finished, then I was done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you become friendly with any of the host country nationals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Dory. Dory was my, was what? Lived with me. Yeah. Uh, Dory was kind of interesting. She had also this O-level exam. She didn't do very well. Dory was really smart. Dory could speak, like, six languages. She could converse, you know, and she could read a couple of languages. But, I mean, like I said, that O-level exam was really hard. And so she said, you know, she wanted to live with me so that she could, she wanted to kind of get away from the family because of course, when she was home, she had to do, you know, work, you know, basically taking care of the little kids and everything. So she lived with me, and the idea was she was going to study and take the exams again. And she did, but she never passed. But now she's got, her husband recently died and, um, she had four, four kids. So she went after, you know, she grew up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was how was your income, uh, lifestyle compared to your counterparts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.59993636192692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on, no, not for, but like I said, that one young lady that was, uh, was involved with, um, you know, her friend that was the governor's daughter, you know, she was asked to leave. So. And I think it was because of, you know, being friendly with the wrong political, political, you know. And it was kind of, you know, not, I mean, what did she ever, I mean, she couldn't possibly have done anything, right? But and she was devastated. She cried and cried. She came to my house. And you know, what could I do? You know, they, they asked her to leave and she didn't have a work permit. She had to go. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In terms of your health, you said you enjoyed the food."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I'm going back in, um, in May, May and June, for a week. So I'm going to Sabah in 2017."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. No sickness or medical treatment or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was never, no, I was fine. I had a, um, a impacted wisdom tooth so I had to have that done there. Boy, that was, you know. Wisdom teeth are no fun at all. So I had had one of those done while I was in Malaysia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that, that was your worst health challenge?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.666595957696575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I'm going back in, um, in May, May and June, for a week. So I'm going to Sabah in 2017."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. No sickness or medical treatment or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was never, no, I was fine. I had a, um, a impacted wisdom tooth so I had to have that done there. Boy, that was, you know. Wisdom teeth are no fun at all. So I had had one of those done while I was in Malaysia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that, that was your worst health challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you feel isolated at all or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.740662175218418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was never, no, I was fine. I had a, um, a impacted wisdom tooth so I had to have that done there. Boy, that was, you know. Wisdom teeth are no fun at all. So I had had one of those done while I was in Malaysia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that, that was your worst health challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, exactly. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you feel isolated at all or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was in Kota Kinabalu, so I was, it's a city. I took tai chi. I would go on a bus every day. It was three days a week and that was really good. It was all in Chinese. And then, um, you know, so there was one guy who would try to, there was a lot of people who didn't understand, you know, because it was all like philosophical, you know, so this one guy would try to kind of translate for, for the most of us who didn't understand. So he would, you know, talk about the, you know, what chi? And, you know, and so it was, it was the old school. I mean, you would stand there and do one pose for like 20 minutes, you know, and go through all the, all the steps. So I took that for about nine months. That was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Um, but um, anything in the culture that, uh, you reacted to that you thought was strange or unusual or."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.714523819871001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. What went, well, local travel, you know, get a taxi, busses around the town. And of course, we were on an island. And that was a problem because we had to, you know, you had to fly. You know, people would fly to Hong Kong for, for a couple of days. There was direct flights, you know, so people would do that, you know, on, some of the teachers would go just for breaks. Or there was direct flight, I think, to, uh, Bangkok, if I'm not mistaken. But, um, you know, in those years, by the way, we got, uh, boat people from, from Indonesia, you know, the war was just winding down, uh, from, uh, yeah. I'm sorry, from, uh, uh, from, um, you know what I mean? Vietnam. Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so from Vietnam, we had boat people escaping the war. And when I went to Thailand, it was all military. It was, you know, it was really a shock because I'd been in Malaysia for such a, you know, for so, for how many times. And over there, I mean, you could use American money. There were like bowling alleys. I was like, what is? You know, it was like, it was kind of a culture shock when I went to Thailand because it was so Americanized in those days. Compared to Malaysia anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was there a noticeable difference between your first and second year on your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, not really. No. Except, you know, like I said, I had to, you know, teach, teach a lot of variety because like I said, the one teacher had left and left us with two science teachers instead of the three we should have had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, the, uh. Did you have any special goals that you wanted to accomplish before you wrapped up your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.90355711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I liked it. I was, I, you know, it would have been easier to stay for a third year. That would have been the easy thing to do. But I just, you know, felt like I had to come home, so. And like I said, so many of them did stay because, you know, it was so nice to be there. And four, four of the guys married local ladies. So that's, you know, they, they get, you know, of course they go back every, at least every year, maybe sometimes more. Uh, so that's very nice for them. But the problem is now I want to go back, but there's nobody there. So I'm going to have to go back by myself because. Um, like, for instance, the one guy is going, but he goes for a wedding in July and I just can't go in July, right? So it's kind of interesting that they have such close, close contact with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think about staying on for an additional?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, but that's how I said it would have been easier, but I can't. I thought it was time to come home, so, um, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What plans did you have for yourself on returning to the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really anything. I just, you know, it's kind of, kind of up in the air for a while. I worked as a recruiter for a year. That was fun. And then I went to grad school. So then I got my MBA when I got back. And in those days, you know, it was so cheap to go to grad school. It was nice, you know? So, you know, I had, I had, I had my readjustment allowance. And so that helped get me through the year of grad school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned to the U.S. was, did you go straight back or did you take any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.559507900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, but that's how I said it would have been easier, but I can't. I thought it was time to come home, so, um, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What plans did you have for yourself on returning to the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really anything. I just, you know, it's kind of, kind of up in the air for a while. I worked as a recruiter for a year. That was fun. And then I went to grad school. So then I got my MBA when I got back. And in those days, you know, it was so cheap to go to grad school. It was nice, you know? So, you know, I had, I had, I had my readjustment allowance. And so that helped get me through the year of grad school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you returned to the U.S. was, did you go straight back or did you take any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went to, yeah I did, I went to Hong Kong and I went to Taiwan. And I was, you know, like I said, National Palace Museum. I remember that was wonderful in Taiwan. And Japan. And it was so cold in Japan. It was, it was, it was November, right? And into December. And I was freezing and it was so expensive. So I spent, that was my trip home. And like I said, that would have been easier to stay because I would have had more, more trips then, right? You know, going back and then the break, break trips and everything. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, uh, how did you feel about being back in the U.S. after being away for a couple of years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.86359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went to, yeah I did, I went to Hong Kong and I went to Taiwan. And I was, you know, like I said, National Palace Museum. I remember that was wonderful in Taiwan. And Japan. And it was so cold in Japan. It was, it was, it was November, right? And into December. And I was freezing and it was so expensive. So I spent, that was my trip home. And like I said, that would have been easier to stay because I would have had more, more trips then, right? You know, going back and then the break, break trips and everything. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, uh, how did you feel about being back in the U.S. after being away for a couple of years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun. Um, we went to, um. My mother and I went to Ponderosa, uh, shortly after I got back, and it just kind of made, I'm sorry, it made me sick because the people were eating these big steaks, and, you know, in Malaysia, in those, we didn't eat that much meat. You know, if you had meat, it was like little bits in a, in a stir fry or something. And so it was kind of like, oh, how could they eat all that? I was, I was, I was probably a little bit anemic too, you know, because, you know, I'd been traveling and, you know, and um, and living in a, in a tropical climate, you know, you kind of adjust to that. So. But that was, that was. I remember looking at those people eating and I couldn't eat that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The, uh, you mentioned before that, uh, Vietnam was, was going on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the what was the feeling of the Malaysian people about, uh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we, it was in Georgia. Yeah. And they, we had one, um, in, in, um, not Michigan. I think it was Wisconsin like in the '80s. So really early on we had one and, and I think I missed one when my kids were little. And I know I missed at least one. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how do you think your Peace Corps service impacted your work and your thinking once you returned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, it was, it was worth, I mean, I'd. I've often, you know, I teach at Wesleyan, North Carolina Wesleyan College, and I've, you know, tried to, you know, every once in a while, a student will say kind of they're interested. And I kind of try to talk it up. I've never had a student that actually went. I had two that applied. I was kind of like disappointing that, that I've never been able to, you know, to have an actual student who actually did it. So. But I really would recommend it.\n\nAnd now, of course, it's a completely different, you know, they're not so isolated. They have internet and so on. And people could travel like, like I said, in those days, I mean, I don't. None of, none of our volunteers had anybody come to visit them. So the whole time. So it just, just was so impossible in those days to get there. Now it's, I'm going to, I'm flying to Beijing and then I have a, um, it's a study tour, and then it ends in Shanghai, and there's a direct flight from Shanghai to Kota Kinabalu. So it's an overnight flight. So and in those days, China was completely closed, right? So I mean, people didn't go to China. So this is kind of new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have, are active in the local returned Peace Corps volunteers group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. North Carolina Peace Corps Association, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been doing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you know, it was, it was worth, I mean, I'd. I've often, you know, I teach at Wesleyan, North Carolina Wesleyan College, and I've, you know, tried to, you know, every once in a while, a student will say kind of they're interested. And I kind of try to talk it up. I've never had a student that actually went. I had two that applied. I was kind of like disappointing that, that I've never been able to, you know, to have an actual student who actually did it. So. But I really would recommend it.\n\nAnd now, of course, it's a completely different, you know, they're not so isolated. They have internet and so on. And people could travel like, like I said, in those days, I mean, I don't. None of, none of our volunteers had anybody come to visit them. So the whole time. So it just, just was so impossible in those days to get there. Now it's, I'm going to, I'm flying to Beijing and then I have a, um, it's a study tour, and then it ends in Shanghai, and there's a direct flight from Shanghai to Kota Kinabalu. So it's an overnight flight. So and in those days, China was completely closed, right? So I mean, people didn't go to China. So this is kind of new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you have, are active in the local returned Peace Corps volunteers group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. North Carolina Peace Corps Association, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. It's like more than, like five, eight years. Something like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you enjoy it or you wouldn't, you wouldn't stick with it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. North Carolina Peace Corps Association, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long have you been doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. It's like more than, like five, eight years. Something like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you enjoy it or you wouldn't, you wouldn't stick with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's interesting. Yeah. It's great. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else about your Peace Corps experience you'd like to mention or, um, share?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00035:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. It's like more than, like five, eight years. Something like that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you enjoy it or you wouldn't, you wouldn't stick with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's interesting. Yeah. It's great. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else about your Peace Corps experience you'd like to mention or, um, share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Malaysia, you know, again, in those days, it was a developing country. Now it's, you know, pretty much. It hasn't been a Peace Corps country for a long time because it's developed. So. But, you know, these kids that get to go to China. I thought about it when I retire, but I just couldn't, I don't know, teaching English. I don't know if I could do it, you know. But anyway, so, you know, now it seems like something that you could do as a, you know, as an older adult to get to get that experience again. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, very good. Thank you very much for sharing your experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.879710448538622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So they transferred me to a residencia hotel near the office and it turned out I had measles, which I had never had. And so I sort of recovered. But then we were all moving in country. Well, my parents were in Miami. They had bought a boat and they were traveling around the Caribbean. And so I said, well, can I spend some time there before I go down? So I did. I spent a few days sort of recovering there and then went down, so I arrived a little late. But so my parents were kind of used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. So what else happened in training? You talked about living with families and just having to find a place? Yeah, but what was your formal, I guess what did you do? And let me back up. What did you do in the Peace Corps and how was the training for that? What was your job in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. The Peace Corps training that we did in Puerto Rico was just language training, and we had that all day long. Now, interestingly, we were the first group of women to be going to Ecuador. There were seven of us. We called ourselves the Magnificent Seven. And we, you know, we didn't have any training there. We were trained when we went to Ecuador to work with a Caritas program doing nutrition education. And the only nutritionist in the country who had been sent by AID, I think, to Chile to study nutrition. Or she'd studied nutrition in Chile and then AID sent her for more advanced degrees. Was the only nutritionist in the country, and she trained us. She worked for Caritas, and she was quite a bundle of energy and very frustrated with Caritas. But they trained, you know, she gave us basic training on basic nutrition and growth monitoring and things that are now pretty standard. But that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training. That's very different than our training. So your training was all language before you came in country and then the specifics. And was your whole group nutrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the women. What did the men do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.421900498376248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. The Peace Corps training that we did in Puerto Rico was just language training, and we had that all day long. Now, interestingly, we were the first group of women to be going to Ecuador. There were seven of us. We called ourselves the Magnificent Seven. And we, you know, we didn't have any training there. We were trained when we went to Ecuador to work with a Caritas program doing nutrition education. And the only nutritionist in the country who had been sent by AID, I think, to Chile to study nutrition. Or she'd studied nutrition in Chile and then AID sent her for more advanced degrees. Was the only nutritionist in the country, and she trained us. She worked for Caritas, and she was quite a bundle of energy and very frustrated with Caritas. But they trained, you know, she gave us basic training on basic nutrition and growth monitoring and things that are now pretty standard. But that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training. That's very different than our training. So your training was all language before you came in country and then the specifics. And was your whole group nutrition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the women. What did the men do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went off to their sites, and I don't know how much training they got. You know, a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their job?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.02433388708472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the women. What did the men do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went off to their sites, and I don't know how much training they got. You know, a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were different jobs. Some were doing agricultural development, some were doing construction, and some were doing what they call community development, which is pretty popular. And then, you know, some worked in small business development, tourism and things like that. And some, what this one friend that I can tell you about up here in Rockville, he was a media person and stayed in the Peace Corps office doing a lot of media stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Totally different things. And then where did you do your nutrition counseling?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.69370431898302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They went off to their sites, and I don't know how much training they got. You know, a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was their job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were different jobs. Some were doing agricultural development, some were doing construction, and some were doing what they call community development, which is pretty popular. And then, you know, some worked in small business development, tourism and things like that. And some, what this one friend that I can tell you about up here in Rockville, he was a media person and stayed in the Peace Corps office doing a lot of media stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Totally different things. And then where did you do your nutrition counseling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in Quito."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were stationed in Quito?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.215227021092245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were different jobs. Some were doing agricultural development, some were doing construction, and some were doing what they call community development, which is pretty popular. And then, you know, some worked in small business development, tourism and things like that. And some, what this one friend that I can tell you about up here in Rockville, he was a media person and stayed in the Peace Corps office doing a lot of media stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Totally different things. And then where did you do your nutrition counseling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in Quito."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were stationed in Quito?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't. The work itself was in Riobamba. We decided when we were in country where we were going to go. And I went to Riobamba, which was. R-I-O-B-A-M-B-A. It's a provincial capital in the mountains about four hours from Quito then, now it's probably a lot less because the place has developed a lot, but it was four hours by bus. And it was in the mountains, beautiful area and town. And the thing that interested me and I think a lot of other volunteers was it was one of the areas. This was a time when the theology of liberation was a big deal in South America, and the bishop in Riobamba was known to be a big progressive theology of liberation bishop. And he actually had sort of a training center there. And a lot of priests and nuns from different areas would come there to study with him, and he was also very active. They were going, the country was going through a lot of agrarian reform at the time. So it was an area where a lot of battles were going on with, especially where we were the blue bloods and then the campesinos were kind of at odds in terms of getting the land distributed because the law had been passed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a formal process for doing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.52150938275419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For what they needed, yeah, the basic. I think where I wasn't real prepared was how to organize the communities and how to set things up in the communities. And that was what I was counting on Caritas to help with. That kind of fell apart. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then this other volunteer group, that was another formal group? I forgot, you mentioned the name. That after he left, you joined another volunteer group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was another. It was just a loose knit group of volunteers who worked in community development, you know, with different communities. There were a couple of communities that volunteers had been going to for a long time. And then around them where others and so they went out all the time and worked with the communities, helping them get bridges built or community structures that are just helping the community. A big problem was, for example, they had a cooperative and they would alternate which family or man in the family would manage the cooperative for a month or something. And the problem was that they weren't real good at math, so they'd mess up the money and then everybody'd get real mad. So the volunteers, we, you know, we kind of helped with that and various things and just trying to get them more organized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think you had an impact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think there was. But I think also the country developed as years went on. I mean, I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of or regardless of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.359888126857024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think there was. But I think also the country developed as years went on. I mean, I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of or regardless of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it helped. I mean, I always think it helps with the ideas. And, you know, you can probably point to people who had an impact, you know, because they did things in the community and the community woke up and then they pressured the local government for more. And those kinds of things happened. Um, but I think it also helped that the country itself was developing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think it was both. I just, I remember going back. When was it? I think late '80s. I remember going back for a visit, and I was so struck by the changes. The communities were still out there, but they now had water and they had electricity and the kids were all getting educated. I mean, they were still in these little communities and their chozas and things like that, but the kids probably were not going to stay and they were going to the city afterwards. But yeah, they. There's one volunteer in our group who was always very close to them, and he teaches now at the University of Utah. But he goes down every summer just about and stays in touch with the families and will often send money and stuff.\n\nBecause this one family that we worked really closely with, Elena, she, her husband, who was the community leader for a long time. It's so funny. He was real short and she was really tall, and it turned out she had been the product of a rape between her mother and the hacienda owner, and she looked just like the hacienda owner. She was tall and blond and light skinned and so forth and he was so proud of her because of her bloodline. And it was just so funny, you know, for us to think about that and she was quite."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And she was blond, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.674879022796866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. When we were there, you know, you'd walk in for a ways and it was a scattered rural community basically. There was like a little place where they would meet. But yeah, they, um, it was rural and there was no water. There was no electricity and it was an evangelical community. These both were. And there was another one in Colta Lake, another area where we worked in other areas. And so there were a lot of them were evangelical. And the difference there was, the volunteers used to say. The difference with the evangelicals is the Catholic community still drank, and the evangelicals came in and convinced them not to drink and not to smoke and to save their money and so forth. And so the Protestant ethic had taken root a little bit more with these communities, and they were a little bit more open to change. And their houses, they would copy the missionaries and so their houses would have, they'd have these little mud houses and then they'd have tin roofs. But that they liked.\n\nBut it was, you know, I think they made a lot of progress, although we worked in another area too. I think those were Catholic communities up in San Juan, another area going up there and um. Yeah, and people were pretty responsible, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, before we, I'd love to pursue the Catholic Protestant part, but just talk about the kind of house you lived in. How did you get water and how did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, I lived in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a lantern to read by night or how did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived in the city, so we did have electricity and water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city did you live in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.191208670119586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived in the city, so we did have electricity and water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What city did you live in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Riobamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Riobamba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's Chimborazo province. But yeah, this city, and it was the provincial capital city. So I had, um, when I was first, I lived with some volunteers in a house and then I moved somewhere. I moved to some other volunteers and then I had my own house. Somebody left and I had my own house. Until I was away, I got meningitis and was shipped to the States, and while I was away, they broke in and stole a bunch of things. So then I wound up living with a Belgian woman who was working with this NGO that the church had started and we lived over by the train station in an apartment there. And I think was that the last place? There may have been one other place I lived after that, but various apartments in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had electricity and water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.545787411243984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Riobamba."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Riobamba."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's Chimborazo province. But yeah, this city, and it was the provincial capital city. So I had, um, when I was first, I lived with some volunteers in a house and then I moved somewhere. I moved to some other volunteers and then I had my own house. Somebody left and I had my own house. Until I was away, I got meningitis and was shipped to the States, and while I was away, they broke in and stole a bunch of things. So then I wound up living with a Belgian woman who was working with this NGO that the church had started and we lived over by the train station in an apartment there. And I think was that the last place? There may have been one other place I lived after that, but various apartments in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had electricity and water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the people in the towns get water? Rainwater? Or what did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.050874901382203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's Chimborazo province. But yeah, this city, and it was the provincial capital city. So I had, um, when I was first, I lived with some volunteers in a house and then I moved somewhere. I moved to some other volunteers and then I had my own house. Somebody left and I had my own house. Until I was away, I got meningitis and was shipped to the States, and while I was away, they broke in and stole a bunch of things. So then I wound up living with a Belgian woman who was working with this NGO that the church had started and we lived over by the train station in an apartment there. And I think was that the last place? There may have been one other place I lived after that, but various apartments in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had electricity and water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the people in the towns get water? Rainwater? Or what did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was a water system they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. I mean in the villages."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.723194334869113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the people in the towns get water? Rainwater? Or what did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was a water system they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. I mean in the villages."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in the villages there would usually be a well or rivers. You know, there was a river near the place I was talking about, where people would go down and get water in jugs and bring it back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get meningitis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.47021592763235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was a water system they had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. I mean in the villages."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in the villages there would usually be a well or rivers. You know, there was a river near the place I was talking about, where people would go down and get water in jugs and bring it back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get meningitis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I don't know, but I think it was. You know, it was going on for a while and we couldn't figure it out until one day I was back and I scratched. There was something on my eyebrow that had bothered me, but I kept looking and couldn't see it. And I finally dug around it and pulled out a tick. And then I got it again, this moving paralysis and everything. And then I get a terrible headache. And the next day I managed to get ahold of some neighboring volunteers who drove me to Quito and then they said, OK, we're sending you to the States. Because I'd been up there once and they'd done testing and they knew it was a viral meningitis, but thought it was OK and didn't realize it was still going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it might have been from a tick."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.078017697369276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, in the villages there would usually be a well or rivers. You know, there was a river near the place I was talking about, where people would go down and get water in jugs and bring it back up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get meningitis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I don't know, but I think it was. You know, it was going on for a while and we couldn't figure it out until one day I was back and I scratched. There was something on my eyebrow that had bothered me, but I kept looking and couldn't see it. And I finally dug around it and pulled out a tick. And then I got it again, this moving paralysis and everything. And then I get a terrible headache. And the next day I managed to get ahold of some neighboring volunteers who drove me to Quito and then they said, OK, we're sending you to the States. Because I'd been up there once and they'd done testing and they knew it was a viral meningitis, but thought it was OK and didn't realize it was still going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it might have been from a tick."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and once I got rid of the tick, then that was it, even though I went to the States and went through a million more tests. But at that point they wanted to send me home because I was near the end of my second year. It was probably in the fall and I didn't want to go back yet. I felt like I had people in Ecuador and just didn't want to up and leave. And so the agreement was that if I extended, the director said, if I'll extend six months, maybe that would work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's how you ended up being a trainer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.753352997076973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question. I don't know, but I think it was. You know, it was going on for a while and we couldn't figure it out until one day I was back and I scratched. There was something on my eyebrow that had bothered me, but I kept looking and couldn't see it. And I finally dug around it and pulled out a tick. And then I got it again, this moving paralysis and everything. And then I get a terrible headache. And the next day I managed to get ahold of some neighboring volunteers who drove me to Quito and then they said, OK, we're sending you to the States. Because I'd been up there once and they'd done testing and they knew it was a viral meningitis, but thought it was OK and didn't realize it was still going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it might have been from a tick."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and once I got rid of the tick, then that was it, even though I went to the States and went through a million more tests. But at that point they wanted to send me home because I was near the end of my second year. It was probably in the fall and I didn't want to go back yet. I felt like I had people in Ecuador and just didn't want to up and leave. And so the agreement was that if I extended, the director said, if I'll extend six months, maybe that would work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's how you ended up being a trainer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I extended six months and then after that, this friend of mine, who was a volunteer in Loja, said she'd been talking to the director about doing training, and we decided we'd like to do it. So we, you know, we went ahead and did that after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go to that next. So you are both staff and volunteer. Could you reflect a little bit about the differences. Or how did being a volunteer impact on your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.503725552307746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and once I got rid of the tick, then that was it, even though I went to the States and went through a million more tests. But at that point they wanted to send me home because I was near the end of my second year. It was probably in the fall and I didn't want to go back yet. I felt like I had people in Ecuador and just didn't want to up and leave. And so the agreement was that if I extended, the director said, if I'll extend six months, maybe that would work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's how you ended up being a trainer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I extended six months and then after that, this friend of mine, who was a volunteer in Loja, said she'd been talking to the director about doing training, and we decided we'd like to do it. So we, you know, we went ahead and did that after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go to that next. So you are both staff and volunteer. Could you reflect a little bit about the differences. Or how did being a volunteer impact on your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think the problem was, I think we were really more like volunteers with the set. What happened was they had brought the training in country and I think, you know, and they had hired local Ecuadorian organization to do the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean language training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.448583947008604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I extended six months and then after that, this friend of mine, who was a volunteer in Loja, said she'd been talking to the director about doing training, and we decided we'd like to do it. So we, you know, we went ahead and did that after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go to that next. So you are both staff and volunteer. Could you reflect a little bit about the differences. Or how did being a volunteer impact on your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think the problem was, I think we were really more like volunteers with the set. What happened was they had brought the training in country and I think, you know, and they had hired local Ecuadorian organization to do the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean language training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Language and culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, both together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.145902465763353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this guy was almost 80, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And the other ones that old as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were others that were retirees. Um, I would assume more in their sixties, but maybe seventies too. I don't know. I mean, in this case, I think they took him because he was a professor of some renown. And I guess the university was requesting someone with his skills, and I don't remember what they were now. But um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of interaction between the older and the younger volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some in training and then I think. You know, actually, I think there did become more when they got to their sites too. I just remember, I think a lot of the older ones had real difficulty with the language, especially if they'd never studied a language. Like there were a lot of Midwestern farmers that would come. And I can remember going to market and hearing somebody screaming at the ladies running the little stands there, as if yelling louder would get their message across in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You hear it all the time on the bus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.051002739737058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were others that were retirees. Um, I would assume more in their sixties, but maybe seventies too. I don't know. I mean, in this case, I think they took him because he was a professor of some renown. And I guess the university was requesting someone with his skills, and I don't remember what they were now. But um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of interaction between the older and the younger volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some in training and then I think. You know, actually, I think there did become more when they got to their sites too. I just remember, I think a lot of the older ones had real difficulty with the language, especially if they'd never studied a language. Like there were a lot of Midwestern farmers that would come. And I can remember going to market and hearing somebody screaming at the ladies running the little stands there, as if yelling louder would get their message across in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You hear it all the time on the bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And you rush over to help them and figure out what they need. And I think a lot of these older volunteers did, you know, the younger ones that were in town would try that, you know, help out and the older ones were more experienced, so they would help too. And there was a woman, when I got sick, there was a woman in the Peace Corps office that kind of took me under her wing and she was. I can't remember why she was in Quito, but maybe it was her husband's job or what. But she was helping out at the office and she kind of took me under her wing when I got sick and made sure I got everything done and helped. And it's just very supportive. So I mean, it was nice to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's nice to have that blend."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.167780821930062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some in training and then I think. You know, actually, I think there did become more when they got to their sites too. I just remember, I think a lot of the older ones had real difficulty with the language, especially if they'd never studied a language. Like there were a lot of Midwestern farmers that would come. And I can remember going to market and hearing somebody screaming at the ladies running the little stands there, as if yelling louder would get their message across in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You hear it all the time on the bus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And you rush over to help them and figure out what they need. And I think a lot of these older volunteers did, you know, the younger ones that were in town would try that, you know, help out and the older ones were more experienced, so they would help too. And there was a woman, when I got sick, there was a woman in the Peace Corps office that kind of took me under her wing and she was. I can't remember why she was in Quito, but maybe it was her husband's job or what. But she was helping out at the office and she kind of took me under her wing when I got sick and made sure I got everything done and helped. And it's just very supportive. So I mean, it was nice to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's nice to have that blend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different people bring different skills to that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.51975646881118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And you rush over to help them and figure out what they need. And I think a lot of these older volunteers did, you know, the younger ones that were in town would try that, you know, help out and the older ones were more experienced, so they would help too. And there was a woman, when I got sick, there was a woman in the Peace Corps office that kind of took me under her wing and she was. I can't remember why she was in Quito, but maybe it was her husband's job or what. But she was helping out at the office and she kind of took me under her wing when I got sick and made sure I got everything done and helped. And it's just very supportive. So I mean, it was nice to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's nice to have that blend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different people bring different skills to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we go back to this? You said, well, you remember this was a Catholic village as opposed to an evangelical one. How do you characterize the differences between these communities other than obviously the religion?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.024265099627577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The volunteers, are you still friends with some volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like this Joel. Now, not all of them. I think that was one of the interesting things for me. I was thinking about that today, too, was, um, I came from a fairly upper-class suburb of Santa Barbara. And although we'd traveled and lived, you know, gone up and spent summer there. It was. The people I was used to were really different from the volunteers I met. And the original, there were a couple of volunteers that I lived with, a couple who were more, you know, from more of an urban background, but I can't remember. But the ones that really stayed and worked in the community that I've stayed in touch with came from either small towns or more rural backgrounds like in Louisiana, Colorado, some of that. And they were all, these guys were all buddies and they go off fishing on the weekends. And I had this dog that a friend had found and I adopted and she was amazing dog. But when I got sick, they took care of her. And it was awful when I went back because they'd just basically left her in the kitchen while they went off for several days. And she was like, totally shell shocked when I got her and it took her like a day to sort of come out of it. But so these guys were very different, and I was thinking Peace Corps was really good for that. Because it taught you, it introduced you to people who came from really different backgrounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your own country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In your own country as well as the country you're in. And it gave you a whole different appreciation for people here, you know, and sort of an understanding. And I try to sort of remember that when I get into these political discussions with people, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you can make friends and find common ground, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.360294555141753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like this Joel. Now, not all of them. I think that was one of the interesting things for me. I was thinking about that today, too, was, um, I came from a fairly upper-class suburb of Santa Barbara. And although we'd traveled and lived, you know, gone up and spent summer there. It was. The people I was used to were really different from the volunteers I met. And the original, there were a couple of volunteers that I lived with, a couple who were more, you know, from more of an urban background, but I can't remember. But the ones that really stayed and worked in the community that I've stayed in touch with came from either small towns or more rural backgrounds like in Louisiana, Colorado, some of that. And they were all, these guys were all buddies and they go off fishing on the weekends. And I had this dog that a friend had found and I adopted and she was amazing dog. But when I got sick, they took care of her. And it was awful when I went back because they'd just basically left her in the kitchen while they went off for several days. And she was like, totally shell shocked when I got her and it took her like a day to sort of come out of it. But so these guys were very different, and I was thinking Peace Corps was really good for that. Because it taught you, it introduced you to people who came from really different backgrounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your own country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In your own country as well as the country you're in. And it gave you a whole different appreciation for people here, you know, and sort of an understanding. And I try to sort of remember that when I get into these political discussions with people, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you can make friends and find common ground, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That there's a way to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at the moment but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.73366061682417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In your own country as well as the country you're in. And it gave you a whole different appreciation for people here, you know, and sort of an understanding. And I try to sort of remember that when I get into these political discussions with people, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you can make friends and find common ground, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That there's a way to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at the moment but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you even can I think sometimes, you know, it's just hard. I've had a lot of discussion, well, not a lot, but I still remember a discussion I had with the mother of one of my daughter's friends who'd come to pick the girl up and I just come back from Nepal working on a maternal child health project there. And the first thing the mother said to me is, are you promoting abortion? And I said, well, let me tell you something. First of all, this is government funded, so it's not permitted that you can promote abortion. But I said, secondly, abortion is not something you really promote, you know? I mean, even here in the country, nobody's telling someone they have to have one. She said, oh good, because, you know, our doctors tell you you have to have an abortion. And my doctor suggested it to me because the tests for my child came out with problems. We decided not to do that and we had the baby and the baby's fine and stuff. And I said, well, what you have to remember is what your doctor said. It's an option. It's a recommendation. It's still your choice, you know. So.\n\nYou get, I don't know, maybe you just have a. It gives you some insight into other perspectives, and I think that was a good thing for me anyway when I was in Peace Corps. You know, there were a lot of things I learned to like about people but didn't necessarily always agree with their views."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's carried over for the rest of your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.370734018693522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. That there's a way to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not at the moment but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you even can I think sometimes, you know, it's just hard. I've had a lot of discussion, well, not a lot, but I still remember a discussion I had with the mother of one of my daughter's friends who'd come to pick the girl up and I just come back from Nepal working on a maternal child health project there. And the first thing the mother said to me is, are you promoting abortion? And I said, well, let me tell you something. First of all, this is government funded, so it's not permitted that you can promote abortion. But I said, secondly, abortion is not something you really promote, you know? I mean, even here in the country, nobody's telling someone they have to have one. She said, oh good, because, you know, our doctors tell you you have to have an abortion. And my doctor suggested it to me because the tests for my child came out with problems. We decided not to do that and we had the baby and the baby's fine and stuff. And I said, well, what you have to remember is what your doctor said. It's an option. It's a recommendation. It's still your choice, you know. So.\n\nYou get, I don't know, maybe you just have a. It gives you some insight into other perspectives, and I think that was a good thing for me anyway when I was in Peace Corps. You know, there were a lot of things I learned to like about people but didn't necessarily always agree with their views."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's carried over for the rest of your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, clearly. Yeah, I mean, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about what you have done since Peace Corps, ending up in Nepal."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.2107827391278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, clearly. Yeah, I mean, like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about what you have done since Peace Corps, ending up in Nepal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well. But even before I got there, I was going to say. Like these volunteers, a lot of them were Baptists, and they really related to these evangelical communities and stuff. And we'd talk about it like, oh really? But you appreciated what they had to say and their insights and why they thought the communities worked because of it and things. So, you know, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learned a lot about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And then it's, yeah, I think for me, it was really hard when I came back to the States, I didn't know what I was going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You trained as an anthropologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00012:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 31.9763823582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I had sort of decided. I liked the Smithsonian when I worked there, but I looked around, I thought, do I really want to spend my life in a museum? And I was worried, you know, either. There was a lot of infighting there in the department and I thought, you know, I could wind up in either a museum or academia and there'd be all this infighting, and I probably wouldn't see that much. I really liked the idea of sort of connecting with people and being helpful and all those things. And I mean, I looked at archeologists that, like this recent find where the guy spent 20 years and finally had this big find. But you're lucky if you find a job on, you know. So as much as I think it was helpful in understanding cultures, and I really appreciate what I studied, but I was thinking I really wanted to do more something else, and I had been working in health. So public health was an area to consider, but I was trying to figure out.\n\nAnd I wandered around a Peruvian friend that we'd met just before I came up. He was a journalist and we went up to the Bay Area and I was looking for a job and couldn't find anything, and he was totally lost and stuff. And so I finally came home and decided I would look for a school program because I always needed to do something, especially out in California. There aren't as many jobs. And so I went around to different, this was, by this time it was like June or July."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "'74?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. '75."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, '75."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I get the times wrong?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I got it wrong. Yes, you came back in '75."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00796:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 53.493995335208474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In January, yes. January '94 was my first trip to Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your first impressions of being there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Sheremetyro Airport is one of the most imposing, stifling experiences you can deal with. I mean, if the Soviet Union was trying to keep people from wanting to leave town, the airport is one way to do that. It's dark. Its features are lifeless. You're walking off a plane that you've been on for the last eleven hours or so out of New York. They amazingly have five or so planes land at one time and they dump them all into the same Customs line. So the Customs booth lines go back up the staircases.\\n\\n Lines in Russia don't exist. People talk about lines. They will, they'll line up. But in these kind of scenarios there's no line management. Everybody's on their own. They'll make you stand behind the line and they'll call you up. How you got to that line is truly on your own.\\n\\n So it was a very alive sensation about going through that process, standing in a little booth, waiting for them to hand you back your official passport, to keep moving, getting your gear and trying to shuffle through the Customs.\\n\\n We have some pretty good stories about going through Customs. We had a lot of short delivery schedules that we'd hand-carry gear over with us. We found some techniques on how to make sure we got through Customs without incidents, to put it mildly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of those books that might come out at another time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, hopefully not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were able to get in what you needed to get in to do what you needed to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00796:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 39.280121127534024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had to. I had issues. My son had gotten sick. There was cholera in the water supply, or in a couple of places in the Moscow River, and I came back and my son had some ungodly intestinal illness that just wiped me out as well when I got back. But that worked out fine. Somebody else took my place.\\n\\n In fact, what had happened was that the lead flight director for the Shuttle flight, Bill Reeves went over. Bill was over there, he came over early because of the Spektr incident, to start coordinating back here for the MOD team for the flight director ops on STS-71. So when I had to come back, Bill picked up that lead NASA role. The team itself that was in the TSUP had it well under control, as far as scheduling and keeping up with Norm and the science activities that we had to keep up with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you doing once you got back to work? Still doing Spektr work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, I was burning up the long-distance credit card on calling Moscow. We had a local line by then, so I could call up through Marshall com. I'd be talking to them at two in the morning, doing a bottle-feeding of my youngest, or my oldest at the time. So it was interesting. I'd wake up in the middle of the night having to do that, and I'd call them up and see what's up. They'd give me some questions or need some answers and I'd follow up with them.\\n\\n So one of the things about the Mir Program is it was always a twenty-four-hour-a-day thing. Because they were always nine hours ahead and the shift of the crew on board the Mir always shifted based on what the operations demands were, EVAs or docking missions or launches or departures of Progress or Soyuz. So you could always call up and somebody would be around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know your pictures weren't any use to Norm, but you mentioned that you could at least provide them for Shannon's use."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your experiences start to benefit the Mir residents on what was up there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00796:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.742658210000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's just too many, too many good memories. My first trip to Moscow in January, that was tough. I had never done international travel before and I had gotten the flu in the middle of the trip, so I was hurting. But I hadn't gotten over it. But I knew I was having a long plane ride on the way back, and so we went down, I wanted to do one last bit of shopping before we went home that last night. So we took the Metro, me and this other guy took the Metro down to the Kremlin and walked around Red Square in the snow with the bright floodlights on in the middle of the night. Just seeing the red brick of Kremlin and the flags waving and the quiet of the snow, that was just a great moment.\\n\\n Just singing songs and doing the stuff in the forest. Being down at Baikonur and being involved in outfitting the module. The thrill of talking on the phone to our guys as STS-71 is launching, saying, \"We're on our way.\" This phase of the mission is coming to an end. Those are all great moments. Sit in console and talking to Norm and getting him through that. There are just too many collections of items to say there's one in particular."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it easier to find the lowest point during the time that you were involved in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was probably the time I had the bad dream where I had the Russian bear eating on my head that woke me up in a scream. That was probably the easiest one to recall. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I was at home. It was in the middle of the acceptance test process. We were just under significant amount of stress. We were getting attention all the way up to the administrator. It was just like I just woke up--it was a bear chomping on my head. The symbology was unmistakable. That wasn't necessarily a low point, it was just one of those things going through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having your sleep abruptly stopped and then having a bear chomp on your head, I can see why that [memory] would last for you. That's for sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00796:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.936286900000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was probably the time I had the bad dream where I had the Russian bear eating on my head that woke me up in a scream. That was probably the easiest one to recall. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I was at home. It was in the middle of the acceptance test process. We were just under significant amount of stress. We were getting attention all the way up to the administrator. It was just like I just woke up--it was a bear chomping on my head. The symbology was unmistakable. That wasn't necessarily a low point, it was just one of those things going through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having your sleep abruptly stopped and then having a bear chomp on your head, I can see why that [memory] would last for you. That's for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I've got a fairly forgiving memory, so I've already forgotten all that stuff that was tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there one of the payloads that seemed to be more challenging than the others to get it ready?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.093097540179315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was after I was over there running SESL. I’d have to somehow refresh my memory on that. I don’t know if there’s anything here that would help me do that or not. I don’t think so. I can’t tell you, without going and looking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought about maybe bringing—I’ve still got my reading files from way back. I've got my calendars, too, my office calendars. I thought about bringing those out and having them handy while we were going through this, but I said, “Well, I don’t know if they want to fool with all that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, that may be nice, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they're back there, but it would take me a few minutes to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can do that later if we need to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 48.99233060019924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought about maybe bringing—I’ve still got my reading files from way back. I've got my calendars, too, my office calendars. I thought about bringing those out and having them handy while we were going through this, but I said, “Well, I don’t know if they want to fool with all that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, that may be nice, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they're back there, but it would take me a few minutes to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can do that later if we need to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about some of the specific testing going on there before. You mentioned the suits and testing the command module and the lunar module. What other sorts of maybe unusual testing was going on, sort of one-off items or things that were out of the ordinary in terms of things you had to test?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 49.991478444665816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they're back there, but it would take me a few minutes to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can do that later if we need to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about some of the specific testing going on there before. You mentioned the suits and testing the command module and the lunar module. What other sorts of maybe unusual testing was going on, sort of one-off items or things that were out of the ordinary in terms of things you had to test?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’ll tell you a little bit about one program, not very much, but a little bit. One day, I was called, along with Alec—Alec had been made Assistant Deputy Chief of the E&D somehow. He had four divisions under him, four or five divisions, mine, Crew Systems, Propulsion Power, and I forget the other one. I was called up to the director’s office, along with Aleck. What had happened is some guy had shown up with an inquiry about supporting DoD, or somebody, in a test, a major test, and it had a security clearance on it that was higher than—nobody on the Center had a security clearance that high. So they couldn’t talk to anybody about it. [Laughter]\\n\\n So, eventually they granted that security clearance to a few of us and we got to undertake that program. That was pretty interesting, because we had a whole bunch of people here with it. They didn’t even want people to know who they worked for. The test was very successful, I might say. We made a little money on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what it was, or is it still classified?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 14.1761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How, given the eventual scientists talking, given the presentations to say why it’s needed, and then given the costs that went into it and the time that went into it, in your opinion, did it end up being a valuable resource?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it was absolutely essential. Everybody recognized at the time that it probably would be obsolete for use on, say, a Mars mission, but in the meantime, we would learn about how to do it. I think it served its purpose. I think it did very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to go in later, even though you had moved on to the other project, and see any of the samples or see them put to use?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I moved on. I never bothered going over there. [Laughter] I once hauled a sample up to headquarters. I was going to up on TDY [temporary duty], and somebody asked me to take it up there. I had fun showing it around in the airplane.\\n\\n Of course, you see lunar samples everywhere you go now, so nothing. Elbert King gave me a lunar sample, a tektite that he said had come from the Moon, but I’m not sure that it did, really. He’s not around. He died here about two years ago, three years ago. I’d like for him to tell me whether he still thinks it came from the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. That’s all the questions I have.\n\nI did actually have one. Looking, we were talking about your experiences with the SESL, what kind of regrets, if any, do you have that you were not given the chance to build the Mark II facility after being connected with SESL for so long?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was up in the VIP viewing room. I used to go out every night and I'd look up at the Moon, and I’d say, “I just can’t imagine we’re actually going to put a man there.” I was obviously just as happy as anybody else that we’d done it. We’d had a press conference after our successful lunar module testing, and I spoke at that. We’d been at it so long and we’d worked so hard on it. I say “we,” and I really mean everybody over there at SESL. I was just probably a little overjoyed that we’d passed the test successfully, run the test successfully. So I started out with a statement that, “Well, we’re home free.” [Laughter] And that was a little headline on a little newspaper article that came out the next day, and I got severely chastised for that. There were a few other things to be done in the program. So I looked a little stupid there, but I really meant it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s been a pleasure to be able to get some of your contributions here on tape today and talk with you for these past few hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m sorry I didn’t prepare a little bit more for that. I’m sure I’ve left something out that’s fairly important, but I won’t dwell on that. I appreciate your asking me to participate in this thing, and I look forward to—are you going to give me a tape on it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, good. I’ll give that to my kids. I like to write, and I was hoping to write. I’ve got a box of stuff from the Lunar Receiving Lab just crammed full of stuff, and I was reluctant to give it up. Jim [JamesM.] Grimwood suggested that the NASA historians would be quite interested in that. What do you guys call the little files that the people keep?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The archives. What you guys keep?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’m sorry I didn’t prepare a little bit more for that. I’m sure I’ve left something out that’s fairly important, but I won’t dwell on that. I appreciate your asking me to participate in this thing, and I look forward to—are you going to give me a tape on it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, good. I’ll give that to my kids. I like to write, and I was hoping to write. I’ve got a box of stuff from the Lunar Receiving Lab just crammed full of stuff, and I was reluctant to give it up. Jim [JamesM.] Grimwood suggested that the NASA historians would be quite interested in that. What do you guys call the little files that the people keep?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The archives. What you guys keep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You’ve got a name for it. I can’t remember that either. You don’t know what it is"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good resources. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00408:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, good. I’ll give that to my kids. I like to write, and I was hoping to write. I’ve got a box of stuff from the Lunar Receiving Lab just crammed full of stuff, and I was reluctant to give it up. Jim [JamesM.] Grimwood suggested that the NASA historians would be quite interested in that. What do you guys call the little files that the people keep?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The archives. What you guys keep?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You’ve got a name for it. I can’t remember that either. You don’t know what it is"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good resources. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. I forget. There’s another slang name for it. But I was really planning to write a book about that. We’ve talked a bit about it today, but there’s a lot, lot more to it than that. I was reluctant to give up my files. I’ll be glad to lend them to anybody, but I was reluctant to give them up completely to somebody else. Nobody wanted them except on the condition that they could keep them, throw away what they want, I guess, and keep what they think is valuable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point you may want to consider donating them to JSC and to the archives there. Other people have done so, and it would certainly be a valuable place to keep the information."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.144092318042745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were about … twelve or fourteen computers, and, like I said, the engineers would come in and talk to Roxie. They might even sit on one of the desks in the middle of the room and talk to her. All of us could hear [these conversations]. But there were no male computers. They were all ladies, and most of them were—I would say 50 percent of them were Air Force wives, and so they came and left within a short period of time.…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Roxie ever have meetings with you as a group, or was everything done on the individual basis when she communicated information to you? I think we call them today staff meetings or group meetings or hands-on meetings. But she never had—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never a meeting. My lands, no. [Laughs] No, there were never any meetings. She probably attended meetings at Walt Williams’ direction, … because she was head of that unit, so she would go and report things. I’ve seen photographs of meetings, and she’s always at those meetings. And Mary [V.] Little [Kuhl], I always considered her [an] assistant, because if Roxie wasn’t able to be there, Mary would be there to kind of take her place. The engineers would go see Mary rather than Roxie. But Mary tells me that wasn’t so, so I’m not real sure how the pecking order was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Roxanah the only woman that you know of on the base that had that type of position, whatever that position was? Were there any other women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the whole base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that were working."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.937880353380827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never a meeting. My lands, no. [Laughs] No, there were never any meetings. She probably attended meetings at Walt Williams’ direction, … because she was head of that unit, so she would go and report things. I’ve seen photographs of meetings, and she’s always at those meetings. And Mary [V.] Little [Kuhl], I always considered her [an] assistant, because if Roxie wasn’t able to be there, Mary would be there to kind of take her place. The engineers would go see Mary rather than Roxie. But Mary tells me that wasn’t so, so I’m not real sure how the pecking order was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Roxanah the only woman that you know of on the base that had that type of position, whatever that position was? Were there any other women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the whole base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in computing. There was a woman draftsman that had a group under her, that would probably be comparable. But as far as research airplanes, no, and, of course, there weren’t the big-frame computers, so we were the big-frame computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, every day when you’d get ready to leave, you mentioned you turned your work back in."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.042089281534253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the whole base?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that were working."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in computing. There was a woman draftsman that had a group under her, that would probably be comparable. But as far as research airplanes, no, and, of course, there weren’t the big-frame computers, so we were the big-frame computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, every day when you’d get ready to leave, you mentioned you turned your work back in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nothing was ever left on your desk."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.04676586837139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in computing. There was a woman draftsman that had a group under her, that would probably be comparable. But as far as research airplanes, no, and, of course, there weren’t the big-frame computers, so we were the big-frame computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, every day when you’d get ready to leave, you mentioned you turned your work back in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nothing was ever left on your desk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Our desks were clean. Our Friedans were covered, because there might be a quarter-inch of dirt when you came back, and our light boxes were always put away in the bottom of our desks in our drawers. But you didn’t keep anything. You kept your supplies, your pencils, and your scales. You had a twelve-inch scale, a six-inch scale, and you had several French curves that were assigned to you when you came to work, and those you kept in your desk, and a triangle for straight lines and things like that. But, no, we didn’t keep our work in the desk; it was given back to Roxie. And I suppose, looking back on it now, not then, I didn’t know, but looking back at it later, it probably was a good thing to do because if the engineers needed that work, why, then she might get a couple of the girls that lived in the dorm to stay and do the work. So it was probably done for a purpose, and it was a good reason. But we always have to look at it backwards to make sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were women that lived in the dorm that had come out to work at Dryden, and then, of course, there were women like you that were there. Their husbands worked out there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.163073187079323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So nothing was ever left on your desk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Our desks were clean. Our Friedans were covered, because there might be a quarter-inch of dirt when you came back, and our light boxes were always put away in the bottom of our desks in our drawers. But you didn’t keep anything. You kept your supplies, your pencils, and your scales. You had a twelve-inch scale, a six-inch scale, and you had several French curves that were assigned to you when you came to work, and those you kept in your desk, and a triangle for straight lines and things like that. But, no, we didn’t keep our work in the desk; it was given back to Roxie. And I suppose, looking back on it now, not then, I didn’t know, but looking back at it later, it probably was a good thing to do because if the engineers needed that work, why, then she might get a couple of the girls that lived in the dorm to stay and do the work. So it was probably done for a purpose, and it was a good reason. But we always have to look at it backwards to make sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were women that lived in the dorm that had come out to work at Dryden, and then, of course, there were women like you that were there. Their husbands worked out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they lived on the base, too. They lived in what was called waring housing, that the Air Force built for [the] servicemen. … They had started to build a few homes in Lancaster. So some of them came from Lancaster, but not very many of them, and, of course, I didn’t live in Lancaster. I lived in Littlerock. So I drove from Littlerock in a car pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you one of the few that commuted in every day to your group of computers, and did you commute with your husband?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 36.00379405812262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they lived on the base, too. They lived in what was called waring housing, that the Air Force built for [the] servicemen. … They had started to build a few homes in Lancaster. So some of them came from Lancaster, but not very many of them, and, of course, I didn’t live in Lancaster. I lived in Littlerock. So I drove from Littlerock in a car pool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you one of the few that commuted in every day to your group of computers, and did you commute with your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had car pools. There were people from that area that would come in, and they would—in fact, most everybody got there by car pools, even those that came from Mojave or Tehachapi or Lancaster, Palmdale area. They all came in car pools, and there was usually five or six in a car pool, depending on the size of your car. But most of the cars in that time period would hold three in the front and three in the back. They [didn’t have] bucket seats [in the front seats]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the women ever drive the car pools, or was it always the men? Just curious."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, the women did, because I did. As the place kind of grew—well, I would say that until we moved over into our new location, most of the women lived right there on base with their husbands or lived in the dorm. The girls lived in the dorm, because a lot of them were single [and no other housing was available]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did your duties change? How long did you do what you were doing when you were first hired?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 35.50342029892184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I [worked] under [Tom who reported to Mr. Beeler]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was the end of your time with her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the computers, yes. I still worked with her, I mean, if I ran into something I didn’t know. The only difference it really meant, I could ask why and what was I doing, and I was told and I was shown. I got taken down and shown the airplanes and what we were studying. If there was a panel on the side of an airplane that vibrated in flight, I was shown that panel, and if it had cracked, why, I was explained how it cracked. So I was in seventh heaven. I knew what I was going to be doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you believe the information you were getting now could benefit your whole understanding of what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of what I’m doing now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, what you were doing then. Did it help you do your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.700686326660318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1966, maybe? ’66? ’65?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. Do you have a copy of the film now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I had them put it on a VCR [videocassette recorder] for me, but it isn’t as nice as the film. And it was black and white because they didn’t have much color then. But that was a fun-type project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did it debut? Did the Center people get to see it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They showed it to the Center people. I’m afraid I’m the type that loves to do work behind the scenes, and I don’t want anything, so my name isn’t on it anyplace. Neither is Mr. Fiskan’s. The only name on it anyplace is Joe Walker’s and the actor who narrated it, and I can’t even remember his name without looking. But it was a project that was different than the research airplanes. But I found I got to do a lot of that kind of stuff, and I didn’t do anything special for any of that, but it just worked that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all this time, did you still have the same title?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 30.77854036295591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I had them put it on a VCR [videocassette recorder] for me, but it isn’t as nice as the film. And it was black and white because they didn’t have much color then. But that was a fun-type project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when did it debut? Did the Center people get to see it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They showed it to the Center people. I’m afraid I’m the type that loves to do work behind the scenes, and I don’t want anything, so my name isn’t on it anyplace. Neither is Mr. Fiskan’s. The only name on it anyplace is Joe Walker’s and the actor who narrated it, and I can’t even remember his name without looking. But it was a project that was different than the research airplanes. But I found I got to do a lot of that kind of stuff, and I didn’t do anything special for any of that, but it just worked that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all this time, did you still have the same title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still in the same office with your desk being in there as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.753933736617675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They showed it to the Center people. I’m afraid I’m the type that loves to do work behind the scenes, and I don’t want anything, so my name isn’t on it anyplace. Neither is Mr. Fiskan’s. The only name on it anyplace is Joe Walker’s and the actor who narrated it, and I can’t even remember his name without looking. But it was a project that was different than the research airplanes. But I found I got to do a lot of that kind of stuff, and I didn’t do anything special for any of that, but it just worked that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During all this time, did you still have the same title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still in the same office with your desk being in there as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and then Tom left and went to Houston [Texas]. In fact, he went with Walt Williams when Walt went down, and I’m not real sure—he was one of the boys, the engineering fellows, that Walt took with him from FRC.\\n\\n Then I had a series of supervisors, … but [I was] still doing structure work [on research aircraft]. … So I stayed in structures right up until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what year did you retire?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 30.837704151797418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you still in the same office with your desk being in there as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and then Tom left and went to Houston [Texas]. In fact, he went with Walt Williams when Walt went down, and I’m not real sure—he was one of the boys, the engineering fellows, that Walt took with him from FRC.\\n\\n Then I had a series of supervisors, … but [I was] still doing structure work [on research aircraft]. … So I stayed in structures right up until I retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In what year did you retire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… 1974, in May of 1974. I enjoyed what I did. I still do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During those twenty years or so that you were there, what other types of changes or, for instance, did you see any more rooms of women being computers? How did that change? How were women starting to become more of the work force while you were out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.914692844125515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me how you kept cool in these hot summers out on the base."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The fellows wore short-sleeved white shirts, and the material wasn’t as heavy as the long-sleeved. They always had a tie, but they were string ties in those days. And us gals would wear dresses which were lightweight cottons and things. There were a lot of materials that you could use. Didn’t have any trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And lots of fans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We never had any fans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? Not any fans? No?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.22801585694508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We never had any fans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No? Not any fans? No?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the winter, did you have extra things to keep you warm?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 36.92001761882786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the winter, did you have extra things to keep you warm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A coat. You wore a coat, and during that time period, snoods were in. Do you know what a snood is? A snood was a heavy-knit, made out of string, like a hairnet, only they were colors, and you would wear them so the wind wouldn’t blow your hair to pieces before you got into the building, and then when you got in the building at your desk, you took them off. Some of them had satin ribbons to tie them on with. Some had elastic in them that you could wear. Some of the girls didn’t wear any and then would do their hair, but during that time period, a lot of them wore bouffants, back-combed and sprayed. So the hairstyle was different, too, and not what it is today. Maybe [today styles are] more comfortable. I don’t know. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve never heard of those. That’s interesting in itself."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 37.68890846536429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the winter, did you have extra things to keep you warm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A coat. You wore a coat, and during that time period, snoods were in. Do you know what a snood is? A snood was a heavy-knit, made out of string, like a hairnet, only they were colors, and you would wear them so the wind wouldn’t blow your hair to pieces before you got into the building, and then when you got in the building at your desk, you took them off. Some of them had satin ribbons to tie them on with. Some had elastic in them that you could wear. Some of the girls didn’t wear any and then would do their hair, but during that time period, a lot of them wore bouffants, back-combed and sprayed. So the hairstyle was different, too, and not what it is today. Maybe [today styles are] more comfortable. I don’t know. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’ve never heard of those. That’s interesting in itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they were called snoods, and they were S-N-O-O-D-S. I think was how they spelled them. But they kept your hair in place if you had to go out. But another thing we had, we were all in one building. The cafeteria was right in the building with us. In fact, [the History,] our office today [is] in the cafeteria, in the old cafeteria. But now I was talking to one of the gals that I know out there today, and she said it’s a half-mile walk to walk from the DAF [Data Analysis Facility] Building, which is one of the outer-located buildings, to the photo lab, which is in the main building, and back again. And not everybody has a golf cart. Not everybody has a bicycle to ride in. You walk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the midst of all the work that you were doing, some of your contributions were released in publication. Share how this occurred and how your participation was included in that work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.29, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of the X ones or any—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the ones that you worked on, ever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the X-15 and the XB-70, the lifting bodies. I didn’t mention the lifting bodies. Only those. I didn’t any of the first that I worked at south base. We didn’t see any. But, later on, why, I got to, so that I was in the control room, so you got to see them. So it was pretty nice.\\n\\n And the control room then was called “the greenhouse” because it was [built] on top of the three-story building, and it was hot up there during the flight, and it wasn’t very big. But they called it “the greenhouse.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been very satisfying for you to see that the planes and the pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They were all great guys. They all had a goal and a purpose, and they did a beautiful job, and I think everybody was just as safety-conscious then as we’re being pushed to be now, and we weren’t pushed to be back then. But I don’t think they lost that many planes and pilots from NASA. The air force did, but that was a different situation than what we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other time that you were called in to help put information together for the planes as a whole, like we just mentioned, of a collection of information? You had mentioned earlier about your logs. We talked about that, and you also mentioned about putting that movie reel together. So I was curious to see if you had any more—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.1, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only the X-15 and the XB-70, the lifting bodies. I didn’t mention the lifting bodies. Only those. I didn’t any of the first that I worked at south base. We didn’t see any. But, later on, why, I got to, so that I was in the control room, so you got to see them. So it was pretty nice.\\n\\n And the control room then was called “the greenhouse” because it was [built] on top of the three-story building, and it was hot up there during the flight, and it wasn’t very big. But they called it “the greenhouse.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been very satisfying for you to see that the planes and the pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They were all great guys. They all had a goal and a purpose, and they did a beautiful job, and I think everybody was just as safety-conscious then as we’re being pushed to be now, and we weren’t pushed to be back then. But I don’t think they lost that many planes and pilots from NASA. The air force did, but that was a different situation than what we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other time that you were called in to help put information together for the planes as a whole, like we just mentioned, of a collection of information? You had mentioned earlier about your logs. We talked about that, and you also mentioned about putting that movie reel together. So I was curious to see if you had any more—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I did a loop of the X planes along with the D-5582. It was supposed to be a short continuous loop film that was used in Washington, D.C., at a meeting or conference that they had there that they wanted, and I put that together, and that was used. That was a fun project, too. In fact, any of this has been fun.\\n\\n I noticed one of your questions—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About anything being a disappointment or discouraging."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 9.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. They were all great guys. They all had a goal and a purpose, and they did a beautiful job, and I think everybody was just as safety-conscious then as we’re being pushed to be now, and we weren’t pushed to be back then. But I don’t think they lost that many planes and pilots from NASA. The air force did, but that was a different situation than what we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any other time that you were called in to help put information together for the planes as a whole, like we just mentioned, of a collection of information? You had mentioned earlier about your logs. We talked about that, and you also mentioned about putting that movie reel together. So I was curious to see if you had any more—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I did a loop of the X planes along with the D-5582. It was supposed to be a short continuous loop film that was used in Washington, D.C., at a meeting or conference that they had there that they wanted, and I put that together, and that was used. That was a fun project, too. In fact, any of this has been fun.\\n\\n I noticed one of your questions—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About anything being a disappointment or discouraging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t remember ever—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a great accomplishment right there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close this afternoon, is there anything else that you would to add or any other reflections on your work there that you’d like for us to know about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just that I don’t know how much longer I’m going to do this. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least until we get to the seventy-five anniversary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank [you] for all the time and all the efforts and the help that you’ve given this project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00995:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just that I don’t know how much longer I’m going to do this. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least until we get to the seventy-five anniversary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank [you] for all the time and all the efforts and the help that you’ve given this project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And wish you the best of luck."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 43.25875962643217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but my father was with the railroad, so we moved from Alabama to Virginia to Tennessee, and then I went to college in Valdosta, Georgia. I actually have no place I really call home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to college in Georgia. Can you tell us about your college years and what you majored in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You probably aren't aware, but it was strange because I was there in—like, Pearl Harbor was at my last year of high school and then the war was on, so most of the men were all sent somewhere else and there were hardly any men at our school. I think in my math class we were only four students in my math class. I majored in math.\\n\\n On the weekends sometimes we would have sailors come up from Jacksonville, or we would go out to Moody Field to dances. I worked at the USO [United Service Organizations] on the weekends, I'd go to dances on the weekends. That's the only other entertainment we had, other than studying. And at that time my father was with the railroad, so we had tires and we had gasoline, where other people didn't have it. So he could drive his car to work.\\n\\n When I'd go back and forth to school, I'd go on—it'd be like a troop train because all these soldiers would be on there drunk and laying in the aisles. We had ration tickets, so that the school got the tickets for the sugar and whatever else they did. I don't remember food being all that thrilling.\\n\\n But my father was at Valdosta. He moved from Tennessee to Valdosta. I lived right across the street from Georgia State Woman's College, which is now—it's one of the parts of University of Georgia, and it's a university itself. But after I went there for two years, they moved to North Carolina, so I stayed in a dormitory then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you majored in math?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that subject a normal subject for a woman to major in at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 51.06019706966935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that subject a normal subject for a woman to major in at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. As you can see, there were only four in there. When I started out, my mother was pushing me to study art, and I figured I didn't have the personality to sell my art if I did, if I was that good. So I went into school so naive. I said, \"Couldn't I major in art and minor in math?\" and they said, \"No, you can't do that.\" So I really suffered.\\n\\n I don't think that I was a good student, and I did my homework all the time, but I do think that I would never have been going on into something, you know, high-level math. But the math we used at NASA was about my speed. We basically just used equations in the work, so it wasn't that I had to do any high theoretical stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year did you graduate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Graduated in [19]'47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.92616922181401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Graduated in [19]'47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I went home to my family in North Carolina, and, of course, I didn't know anybody because I never lived there, but my cousin was there and I had a friend whose father also worked for the railroad. My family were pressuring me to go into teaching and I thought, \"No way am I going into teaching.\" But I didn't really know how to get a job.\\n\\n I had a railroad pass where I could go anywhere from New York to New Orleans for free, so this friend of mine was going over to Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] to apply for a job as a secretary. She had a college degree. I don't know what it was, whether it was business or what it was, but when we got over there they interviewed both of us. She said, \"Just go on. Just give me company.\"\\n\\n What was really odd is that when they interviewed her, they offered her $3,000, about $3,000, and they offered me $4,000, just because I had a math degree. She got a little—I don't remember what her problem was, but she went back home after a while. She didn't stay very long. I don't remember whether she had other things going at home or whether she wasn't happy with what they did, but while I was there, I shared an apartment. They assigned me to Loads Division, and I shared an apartment in Hampton [Virginia] with three other girls. I don't remember. They worked in gust loads or something.\\n\\n There were a lot of big divisions there at Langley. And we cooked together, and at that time—that was when cars first came back and one of the people in the house bought a car so we were having a little bit more mobility at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Loads Division, you said you were assigned there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain a little bit about what that was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 58.06659482767419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in the East Coast, you know, with all the humidity and the trees and grass, and when I got off that plane, what was really funny is that I got off the plane, and my boyfriend had sent me roses, but I got off the plane and I kept hearing them say, \"Beverly Swanson, Beverly Swanson.\" And I said to the bus driver—they had the Trona Stage [bus route between Trona, California and Los Angeles California], which was a bus that went up to the desert. I said, \"Do you hear them saying Beverly?\" \"No, let's get going.\" So I didn't get my flowers. But I got on the Trona Stage and I guess it's like ninety miles up to Edwards. Did you go up on the—did you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we drove up there and then when I got there, I got there about the middle of the day and it was hot, bright, sunny, like it usually is. It just overwhelmed me. I thought that's what the Sahara Desert is like. But at that time, they had those big—oh, I don't know what you call those buildings. Great, big—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The hangars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hangars. And then we were right at the main base, right next to the service club where the airmen came to eat and there were movies. It was like right out our back door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live? You lived there at—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 55.274492954845584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you usually cook then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember cooking with anybody else too much. There must have been a PX [Post Exchange] there so that we could get food to cook, but I don't remember cooking with anybody else because [Gertrude Wilken] Trudy Valentine was there and she was a very elaborate cook and she was always make big to-dos or something, but we probably shared sometime. And then when Julia Woodbridge came, I don't think she could cook very good, so I think I might have cooked for the two of us.\\n\\n Different people came and went, so I don't even remember the other girls, but there were a number of different people who came and worked as a computer for a while, and then they didn't stay a very long period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was a turnover as far as people coming and going? Do you think it was because of the climate? Do you have any idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know. There were basically, I think, maybe six or eight of us that stayed there most of the time. Mary Little [Kuhl] and Roxanah and I think her name was Lilly Ann [Bajus], a computer from Cleveland, and a secretary, was on the side with the four, and then on the other side we had another girl. Trudy was from Cleveland. I don't remember who else. Beverly Smith came at a later time.\\n\\n Let's see, I was in the dorm there for two years and then I got married in 1952, so I stayed on working for another, what—after I was married, I lived like a year in Palmdale [California], and drove back and forth. Then after [19]'53, my husband and I decided to go back East."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there, can you describe your working conditions, the room you were in? I know you said you had the Frieden calculators."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.16525551606946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. The engineers were men and the computers were women. I was actually wondering when they actually changed it from computer to mathematician, because I think when I was hired I was a computer, but some time in the five years that I worked it was changed over, and when I was at Langley, in loads, there was a young woman there who was an engineer, aeronautical engineer, and she was fighting all the time, trying to get them to call her an engineer. They didn't even want to give her the title of engineer, so I don't know what her title was. But I remember it being a focus at one time and I was very proud when they changed it to mathematician."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that more of a step up as far as status was concerned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that it changed my GS [General Schedule], whatever it was, but at least it looked better on paper to be called a mathematician than to be called a computer. The computers were just coming in at that time, so maybe they needed the term for the machine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wanted to free it up so they could use it somewhere else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first computers that they brought in there would take up a room size, and they were very massive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunities for advancement there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.07250612896606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that it changed my GS [General Schedule], whatever it was, but at least it looked better on paper to be called a mathematician than to be called a computer. The computers were just coming in at that time, so maybe they needed the term for the machine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wanted to free it up so they could use it somewhere else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first computers that they brought in there would take up a room size, and they were very massive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunities for advancement there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Roxanah really went to bat for us, and I think we did as well as anybody else. She probably had to appeal to De [DeElroy E.] Beeler. Walt [Walter C.] Williams was the head, but I think De Beeler was probably in charge of engineering or he was my superior. But I felt that Roxanah really had our interests at heart.\\n\\n When I was at Langley I felt like I was just being pushed around a lot. I was assigned to one project one time and I thought this is really, really the pits. I don't really see any purpose in this. It seemed like I was just marking time or something. Maybe overall whatever he was doing was something important but the engineer was not very helpful.\\n\\n But I learned a lot when I was at Langley because I didn't know anything about the type of work I was doing, so I learned. And I think I might have taken some classes in aeronautics or something while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that prepared you for your work at—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 43.41389569885118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first computers that they brought in there would take up a room size, and they were very massive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunities for advancement there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Roxanah really went to bat for us, and I think we did as well as anybody else. She probably had to appeal to De [DeElroy E.] Beeler. Walt [Walter C.] Williams was the head, but I think De Beeler was probably in charge of engineering or he was my superior. But I felt that Roxanah really had our interests at heart.\\n\\n When I was at Langley I felt like I was just being pushed around a lot. I was assigned to one project one time and I thought this is really, really the pits. I don't really see any purpose in this. It seemed like I was just marking time or something. Maybe overall whatever he was doing was something important but the engineer was not very helpful.\\n\\n But I learned a lot when I was at Langley because I didn't know anything about the type of work I was doing, so I learned. And I think I might have taken some classes in aeronautics or something while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that prepared you for your work at—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think I was learning a little bit, you know, catching up with some of these aeronautical engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you went out there, how did your family feel about you going that far away?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.689996908891324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it really colored it when I went into teaching, though. It really broadened my outlook on life and I was a Girl Scout leader for like ten years. When I was living in New Jersey, I was a member of the Christian Jews group and I belong to League of Women Voters, so I'm really into rights for everybody, so I think it had a lot to do with coloring what I became."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having those exposures early on. Did your husband follow you to California? I mean, he was your boyfriend at that time. He followed you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, what it says is, \"Beverly's boyfriend is coming out here, and I felt sorry for him.\" But I don't think he felt like he was going anywhere at Langley. If I had really been serious about breaking off with him, I probably shouldn't have contacted him or had anything to do, but we really had a lot of things in common. I'm not sorry that I married him. I have three lovely girls. They all did well in school, but it was not—I had been active in the Episcopal Church and I knew the problems with getting into a mixed marriage, so I really didn't—\\n\\n He worked on basically the same planes that everybody else worked on, I think, but he got discouraged with government, and I think he thought private industry had a lot more going for it at the time, and then everybody was leaving at that time to go to Cape Canaveral [Florida] and they were going. His boss went back to Republic Aviation in New York and he told George if he came back there he could work for him or something, and that was where he came from.\\n\\n His parents lived up on the Hudson River, so I think that's why we went. I think if I hadn't gotten married, I probably would have stayed with NASA as long as Mary did, because I liked it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You enjoyed your work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I never felt that women were put down in their work. Everybody was contributing what they could contribute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt like you were treated well, even though you were a woman?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.81348099787865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I think it was all just—Ed was probably right. Most of the stuff went back to Langley and then they figured out where they were going, or they looked at all of the reports, you know, like if you didn't see any of the reports, you didn't really know an overall picture of where they were headed. I'm sure today they've used a lot of the research in creating new airplanes. I really loved the little X-4. I think they made a video of that from Ames [Research Center, Mountain View, California], because I remember them saying they were thinking about getting somebody else to be the computer in the picture when I was doing all the work and I thought, \"Well, I may not be good-looking, but for crying out loud.\" So I don't know where—that's probably floating around somewhere, but it was a cute little plane. It had elevons. The elevator and the ailerons were together so it was like a neat little thing. I'm sure that's what they probably use nowadays for some of the little jet planes, but it was really a fun little plane to work on. I could see it taking off outside the window."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have given you a feeling of satisfaction, knowing that you were helping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was fun. I liked working on that one more than I did the others. Mel Sadoff would come in. He'd come down from Ames and he would be there, maybe during the week or something, but he'd come in and look at the stuff and I think I got a little bit more of an idea about what was going on. He'd say, \"Do you see so-and-so?\" so I think I had a little bit more personal interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More input."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Over the long range, I don't know how they—and I guess all that material is unclassified now, so it's out there if people want to—if they used it in building airplanes today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was the most challenging part of your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 39.79275666430961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was fun. I liked working on that one more than I did the others. Mel Sadoff would come in. He'd come down from Ames and he would be there, maybe during the week or something, but he'd come in and look at the stuff and I think I got a little bit more of an idea about what was going on. He'd say, \"Do you see so-and-so?\" so I think I had a little bit more personal interest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More input."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Over the long range, I don't know how they—and I guess all that material is unclassified now, so it's out there if people want to—if they used it in building airplanes today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was the most challenging part of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if there were any at the moment. I don't know if it was challenging or not. It was just interesting, and I just liked working with the data, so I don't know that it was—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned the X-4 was probably your favorite project that you worked on. Were there any people out there that you felt like really made a difference in your life or in your career or acted as a mentor?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.860922066255403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the central—not central valley. It's in back valley there in California. They have a lot of those glider planes. I think that's where you could basically learn how you could—once you get up in the air, you can probably glide to anywhere, just like a bird, if you knew what you were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to see if Rebecca has anything that she'd like to ask.\n\nWhen you were talking about the X-1 and some of the early projects that you worked on, it made me think about the classified type of work that you were working on. Was there a level of secrecy that was going on at the Flight Research Center at that time, that you all felt compelled to maintain while you were working on those projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I mean, when I went to Langley, I don't know whether I had top secret clearance, but I certainly did when I was at Edwards. At that time, the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] would go back and they would actually interview people you went to high school with and they really thoroughly checked into your background. I always felt that I had to keep my mouth shut, off the base.\\n\\n But basically we were kind of closed in and we didn't have contact with—unless reporters came up or something from L.A. and there was a big thing, but we didn't have contact with them. But one of the reasons I got upset about the X-5 project was because I was supposed to go to the next level of clearance. I don't know why that was so special to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's about the time that you were pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your choice not to work anymore, or were you not allowed to work because you were pregnant?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.289913406950447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I mean, when I went to Langley, I don't know whether I had top secret clearance, but I certainly did when I was at Edwards. At that time, the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] would go back and they would actually interview people you went to high school with and they really thoroughly checked into your background. I always felt that I had to keep my mouth shut, off the base.\\n\\n But basically we were kind of closed in and we didn't have contact with—unless reporters came up or something from L.A. and there was a big thing, but we didn't have contact with them. But one of the reasons I got upset about the X-5 project was because I was supposed to go to the next level of clearance. I don't know why that was so special to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's about the time that you were pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your choice not to work anymore, or were you not allowed to work because you were pregnant?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It was my choice, but I think at that time most people stopped. Women don't go to work; they stay home and take care of their children. I don't think I ever would have trusted anybody else to take care of my children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Roxanah would pick you up at your dorm in the old base you called it. But what were your hours like? I know the first six weeks you mentioned that you just had really multiple days, that you just worked constantly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.296189391296847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It was my choice, but I think at that time most people stopped. Women don't go to work; they stay home and take care of their children. I don't think I ever would have trusted anybody else to take care of my children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Roxanah would pick you up at your dorm in the old base you called it. But what were your hours like? I know the first six weeks you mentioned that you just had really multiple days, that you just worked constantly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we worked overtime, too. I remember getting a big, fat check after the first couple of months or something, because I had worked so much overtime, and I never had an opportunity to do that before, and you really had no choice. It needed to get done and it needed to get done right away. I've forgotten what you asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have worked like eight hours, generally. But we started early enough in the morning before the desert got hot, but we were inside and we must have had those swamp coolers to keep the place cool, because it was a noisy atmosphere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your lunch breaks? Was that a time to talk more about projects, or did you talk about—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.99576599032983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and we worked overtime, too. I remember getting a big, fat check after the first couple of months or something, because I had worked so much overtime, and I never had an opportunity to do that before, and you really had no choice. It needed to get done and it needed to get done right away. I've forgotten what you asked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have worked like eight hours, generally. But we started early enough in the morning before the desert got hot, but we were inside and we must have had those swamp coolers to keep the place cool, because it was a noisy atmosphere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your lunch breaks? Was that a time to talk more about projects, or did you talk about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and I think we probably just made a sandwich ourselves and brought it. I don't think we went out. We didn't go out anywhere to lunch. It couldn't have been exciting or I would have remembered. But no, I don't remember getting together. I must have done a lot of reading, because I would read whenever I had spare time or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any type of library or did someone send you books?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.7730733225887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have worked like eight hours, generally. But we started early enough in the morning before the desert got hot, but we were inside and we must have had those swamp coolers to keep the place cool, because it was a noisy atmosphere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your lunch breaks? Was that a time to talk more about projects, or did you talk about—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and I think we probably just made a sandwich ourselves and brought it. I don't think we went out. We didn't go out anywhere to lunch. It couldn't have been exciting or I would have remembered. But no, I don't remember getting together. I must have done a lot of reading, because I would read whenever I had spare time or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any type of library or did someone send you books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a library at the service club, right behind us, and you could check out books there. You could go over to the service club and buy various things, but for the life of me, I can't remember where the PX was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to have one somewhere.\n\nWe touched briefly about today's emphasis on dress, and the impression that young people have. During that time, was there a social acceptance or a social expectation of how you should dress when you go to work, or were you all able to dress comfortably for your jobs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8704229999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have had a washing machine and dryer, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A dryer, too? With all the dust and the wind, I can't imagine hanging clothes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had to have been done right there, because we were right in the middle of the base and there was nothing except airmen walking all around outside, so there were no clothes lines. There was no fence around our area. We were just sitting right out in the middle of nowhere, so if we opened our window, you could see in. I think we must have had Venetian blinds.\\n\\n But no, it was totally not private. But we never had any problem. We never had any problem with any of the airmen or anything going on, as far as I know with that. Nobody dated the airmen. Nobody, as far as I know, dated any officers. But sometimes they'd go over to, you know, like if they had a party at the Officers' Club, sometimes some of us would go over and just stay for a while and have a drink, but we never felt like we were involved in their life. We were not excluded, but we were not included, either. I would imagine that people like Walt Williams and De Beeler probably had a lot more to do with them, since they were on a day-to-day basis, talking to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there when Walt Williams left, or was he still there after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was probably about close to the time when he was leaving. I don't remember exactly when he—but there were a lot of engineers that were looking around to find something else. Some of them went to TRW, some went to Cape Canaveral, some went back East. I don't know. Some of them thought they'd get in on the ground floor at Canaveral, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your salary was somewhere around $3,000 when you were at Langley. Did you get a bonus for moving out to Muroc, or any type of substantial increase? What was your salary?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.7783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that was probably about close to the time when he was leaving. I don't remember exactly when he—but there were a lot of engineers that were looking around to find something else. Some of them went to TRW, some went to Cape Canaveral, some went back East. I don't know. Some of them thought they'd get in on the ground floor at Canaveral, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your salary was somewhere around $3,000 when you were at Langley. Did you get a bonus for moving out to Muroc, or any type of substantial increase? What was your salary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could probably tell you later when I actually quit, but I looked for my other records and I couldn't find them, but it was, you know, even though I got $4,000 when I started, I don't know that the increments were that great at that time, compared to what it is today. But they just paid my way out there, and I don't remember them giving me any bonus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the dormitories free or did they charge you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know whether we had any stipend for them or not. If it was, it wasn't very much. I have to think about that. I don't remember it being taken out. Mary might remember something like that, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there as a computer, were the computers, the women, all in that one room all the time, or were you—worked with men during the day as well as in your rooms, or were you secluded from the men?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could probably tell you later when I actually quit, but I looked for my other records and I couldn't find them, but it was, you know, even though I got $4,000 when I started, I don't know that the increments were that great at that time, compared to what it is today. But they just paid my way out there, and I don't remember them giving me any bonus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the dormitories free or did they charge you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know whether we had any stipend for them or not. If it was, it wasn't very much. I have to think about that. I don't remember it being taken out. Mary might remember something like that, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there as a computer, were the computers, the women, all in that one room all the time, or were you—worked with men during the day as well as in your rooms, or were you secluded from the men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that we were secluded but basically, if the engineers wanted to know something about the work, they came down to our desks, so basically we stayed in that room most of the time. But you could walk down the hallway when you wanted a break, and after George came out there, he used to come down and talk to me a lot. Trudy [Wilken] Valentine was going with George [Valentine] at that time, so he used to come in once in a while and talk to her.\\n\\n It was basically like it was at Langley, except at Langley the engineers and the computers were in the same room and you would make passing remarks to the engineers then, but we were basically secluded, if you get right down to it. But you could walk down the hall and there wasn't anybody keeping you from visiting, but there was just not that much socializing, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too much work to do, I guess, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00981:146", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know whether we had any stipend for them or not. If it was, it wasn't very much. I have to think about that. I don't remember it being taken out. Mary might remember something like that, I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there as a computer, were the computers, the women, all in that one room all the time, or were you—worked with men during the day as well as in your rooms, or were you secluded from the men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know that we were secluded but basically, if the engineers wanted to know something about the work, they came down to our desks, so basically we stayed in that room most of the time. But you could walk down the hallway when you wanted a break, and after George came out there, he used to come down and talk to me a lot. Trudy [Wilken] Valentine was going with George [Valentine] at that time, so he used to come in once in a while and talk to her.\\n\\n It was basically like it was at Langley, except at Langley the engineers and the computers were in the same room and you would make passing remarks to the engineers then, but we were basically secluded, if you get right down to it. But you could walk down the hall and there wasn't anybody keeping you from visiting, but there was just not that much socializing, I don't think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too much work to do, I guess, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There seemed like there was pressure to get it done, somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever a time where you felt that there was information that they didn't want you to know, with all the secrecy going on, or all the testing of the airplanes? Was there a time when people were not knowledgeable about the projects that were going on in the time that you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00183:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 43.166002294713806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there are a number of them, and I think the major ones that you touched on, the fire, the Tito mission. The Tito mission was really a very large hurdle because both sides had become so polarized. In fact, our Administrator had publicly stated very, very firmly that he was not going to fly, and their Administrator had very publicly and just as firmly said, “Yes, he is.”\\n\\n We honestly—I do recall that was one week where we were probably averaged maybe two or three hours of sleep a night because we would be in very, very hard negotiating meetings with them during the day, and then at the end of the day we would go back to the Volga apartments, the Volga apartments that NASA leases over there, and be on telecoms with the people back here, giving them the information we had learned and receiving information from this side and then trying blend the two together.\\n\\n Of course, at the end of the day over there, five o’clock over there is eight o’clock here, so as we were just finishing up the day and getting back to the Volga at six o’clock or so, and normally hadn’t eaten yet, the phones would be ringing and people here would be ready for a full day’s work. [Laughs] So it was good in a way that it was a very efficient way to get the job done, but I remember at the end of that week, we were all completely bushed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have to worry about forgetting while you slept."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just didn’t sleep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to take a break for a few minutes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00183:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 29, "return_to_go": 45.740002549682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just didn’t sleep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to take a break for a few minutes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That would be a good idea.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]\n\n… Pilot In-flight Landing Operations Trainer. He had to force the words to make PILOT out of it. But it was essentially a laptop, but at that time, laptops didn’t have enough capacity, so it was a workstation that we had to go out and buy. Essentially it was like a game, a little game that you buy now down at Target, to land, a landing simulator. We can talk about it or elaborate on it, but it was one of the things I had found I thought was maybe a deficiency or something that really taxed the commander on coming back and landing, that I felt would help unload some of that task, if he could practice the landing onboard, and it’s worked out well. It’s gone on almost every flight now. Now the computers are small enough it can go into a little laptop, with very little overhead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. What is the feedback from the commanders?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00183:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.82, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We gathered the information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In February of 2003, NASA and the nation lost another Orbiter when\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n disintegrated on its way back home. Share with us where you were when you heard that news and then how you’ve become involved with some of the return-to-flight activities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Reno, Nevada, when we lost\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n . I was at a wildlife conservation convention and saw it on the news very early in the morning, and wasn’t able to get out of there before being captured by some media types who wanted interviews. Of course, I had no idea what had happened then. There was a lot of speculation, but I really had no idea what had happened until, well, I guess it was a day or two later when I learned what the source was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you now involved with some of the return-to-flight activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. I am now and, again, because of General Stafford, who keeps me off the street and keeps me from my hunting trips and flying as much as I want to. He had been asked by the Administrator to set up an independent review group of how NASA was responding to the recommendations of the\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n Accident Investigation Board. We were not involved at all with the Accident Board or with their findings, but because of the commitment by Mr. [Sean] O’Keefe that NASA would in fact comply with all the recommendations, and NASA’s statement that they would raise the bar and do even more, he asked General Stafford to form a committee of experts, of expertise in various areas, the management areas and the technical areas and the operation areas, to review NASA’s responses and to assess whether they had complied with the intent of the Accident Board recommendation, and that’s what we’re doing now. That’s what I’m involved with right now and will be up until return to flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you can share with us at this point, or are you still collecting information?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00260:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it’s a real difference in the way—the center cultures pose some interesting challenges in getting jobs done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure they will continue to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I think JSC is one of the best integration and operations organization probably that’s ever been put together. We’re not as good a development organization. We’re not as strong as—and it’s cultural, because we’ve not allowed the engineering organization to stay as strong as it was during Apollo, because we’ve had to go favor operations over engineering, and over in Huntsville, fire and thunder rules Huntsville. If you’re ever a Chief Engineer over there, you’re like Flight Directors around here.\\n\\n So when you look at cross-culture, we can [talk tough on] engineering but they have the culture that says—their whole Center’s is culture is on that model, and we’re on another model. We’ll never be able to compete on a development basis with them, and I don’t think it’s healthy to do so. I think the Centers need to realign to the point where you got some very strong roles, and quit mixing it up so much.\\n\\n Because that was the infighting; the infighting killed [the Freedom] program. Everybody wanted to do operations; everybody wanted to do logistics; everybody wanted to do this and everybody wanted to do that. And you had Reston on top of it, and they wanted to do it all. So there wasn’t enough money to go around. You literally starved the development contracts because of the bickering that went on between the Centers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It should continue to be interesting for you as you move through your self-employment days, but yet still being able to do so much with the different Centers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s been interesting. I don’t mind doing it until I can get my Social Security quarters in, and then I— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you for all the time that you’ve given us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00260:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I think JSC is one of the best integration and operations organization probably that’s ever been put together. We’re not as good a development organization. We’re not as strong as—and it’s cultural, because we’ve not allowed the engineering organization to stay as strong as it was during Apollo, because we’ve had to go favor operations over engineering, and over in Huntsville, fire and thunder rules Huntsville. If you’re ever a Chief Engineer over there, you’re like Flight Directors around here.\\n\\n So when you look at cross-culture, we can [talk tough on] engineering but they have the culture that says—their whole Center’s is culture is on that model, and we’re on another model. We’ll never be able to compete on a development basis with them, and I don’t think it’s healthy to do so. I think the Centers need to realign to the point where you got some very strong roles, and quit mixing it up so much.\\n\\n Because that was the infighting; the infighting killed [the Freedom] program. Everybody wanted to do operations; everybody wanted to do logistics; everybody wanted to do this and everybody wanted to do that. And you had Reston on top of it, and they wanted to do it all. So there wasn’t enough money to go around. You literally starved the development contracts because of the bickering that went on between the Centers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It should continue to be interesting for you as you move through your self-employment days, but yet still being able to do so much with the different Centers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s been interesting. I don’t mind doing it until I can get my Social Security quarters in, and then I— [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you for all the time that you’ve given us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve enjoyed this. It’s been cathartic. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, good. We’re glad to have that, so thanks again."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.81132472416857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I would say that was a pretty good model. There were some differences, but it provided the understanding of what could happen and how it could be set up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What goes into creating a charter, the initial charter for the Foundation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I have a copy of it here. I'm not sure. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? [LAUGHS] Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can't put my hands on it real quickly. But it was an agreement about who would do what and the extent to which we would rely on private resources. And then, of course, any time you get into the governmental space, you're dealing with regulations governing the expenditure of funds. And one has to be very careful about giving people benefits or preferences not available generally based on their involvement. It could be as simple as bringing somebody in for a special tour. I don’t think that would cross any kinds of lines. But if you’re beginning to give significant gifts to people that use public resources, you know, you can't use appropriated funds for that. But sometimes there is a place for that kind of thing—promoting the organization or funding things—that either the Archives didn't have the money for, or would be prohibited from using appropriated funds for. So all of that needed to be laid out and clarified. And the charter laid out how often the group would meet, how it was organized, who would be in charge, you know, how they would relate to the Archivist, because it wasn't a statutory organization—an organization set up by law."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was there a board then with it, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.35966015329453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I can't put my hands on it real quickly. But it was an agreement about who would do what and the extent to which we would rely on private resources. And then, of course, any time you get into the governmental space, you're dealing with regulations governing the expenditure of funds. And one has to be very careful about giving people benefits or preferences not available generally based on their involvement. It could be as simple as bringing somebody in for a special tour. I don’t think that would cross any kinds of lines. But if you’re beginning to give significant gifts to people that use public resources, you know, you can't use appropriated funds for that. But sometimes there is a place for that kind of thing—promoting the organization or funding things—that either the Archives didn't have the money for, or would be prohibited from using appropriated funds for. So all of that needed to be laid out and clarified. And the charter laid out how often the group would meet, how it was organized, who would be in charge, you know, how they would relate to the Archivist, because it wasn't a statutory organization—an organization set up by law."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Was there a board then with it, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, initially that was the whole Foundation. But what was envisioned, and what developed was that the public was invited to become members, much like those who join “Friends of the National Zoo.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, in more recent years, prominent individuals—a name I'll mention is Cokie Roberts, the journalist, was a huge supporter of the Archives, and she, behind the scenes, was on the Foundation. And there have been others on the Foundation. I think maybe the author, David McCullough was on the board. And then there have been some philanthropists on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. And you said that it was created around 1992 or so?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.604518707771025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, in more recent years, prominent individuals—a name I'll mention is Cokie Roberts, the journalist, was a huge supporter of the Archives, and she, behind the scenes, was on the Foundation. And there have been others on the Foundation. I think maybe the author, David McCullough was on the board. And then there have been some philanthropists on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. And you said that it was created around 1992 or so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, those foundational documents were in that time period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're in the records of the Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'll have to check that out. So that was mainly for, like, getting public support for exhibits and public programming, you said?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 30.671687453078917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, those foundational documents were in that time period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're in the records of the Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'll have to check that out. So that was mainly for, like, getting public support for exhibits and public programming, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay, great. Another thing that I wanted to follow up on was you were providing weekly updates to some management officials, something like that? Could you go into more detail on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.611015779727044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was an earlier version, now that you pressed me a little bit. Back, I'd say in the early '70s maybe, or sometime in that timeframe, there had been an organ like that that had gone out in the National Archives, and so that was one of the reasons people remembered that and liked that it was being renewed. I think that was part of the impetus that we—that used to be a really good means of communication that we don't have anymore. So I think it's like lots of electronic newsletters. I mean, it played its role during the time that it was in place. Whether or not it's been replaced by other useful things, I mean, certainly it has, but that was one specific kind of thing that served a good purpose. Oh, another point to make is that when staff were contributing news for the Managers Monthly, it was really kind of one of the only times that the managers down to that level of supervisor, I think, were made to feel like they were part of what was going on. So much else was just top down. And this was a bit more saying, \"We want to involve you in the decision-making.\" And so we're specifically not sending it out to folks below you, not because we don't want that information spread, but we're respecting the roles you have as a supervisor, and you deserve to kind of have insight. And then, you know, they could share it with others if they wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this being sent to regional managers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. That was the other thing. That's another reason why I think it was particularly useful, because it was a way to create the sense, you know, of \"One NARA.\" We didn't use those terms back then, but . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . create that sense of we're one agency. And [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it . . . [CROSS TALKING]. Go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.79001753303005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. That was the other thing. That's another reason why I think it was particularly useful, because it was a way to create the sense, you know, of \"One NARA.\" We didn't use those terms back then, but . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . create that sense of we're one agency. And [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it . . . [CROSS TALKING]. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just going to say, it also really illustrated to me how diverse the mission of the Archives is and how difficult, in some ways, it is to attempt to find a unified mission outside of the unity of administrative support functions that has to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think for what you were putting out, the monthly and then the weekly, do you think it took someone with your type of personality? You seem to be one that, regardless of where or what position you're in, you like to go out and meet the staff and talk to them and learn about things, whether it was always appreciated or not. But you seem like you were that type of person. Do you think that's what helped make that such a success?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.32224170336672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": ". . . create that sense of we're one agency. And [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it . . . [CROSS TALKING]. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was just going to say, it also really illustrated to me how diverse the mission of the Archives is and how difficult, in some ways, it is to attempt to find a unified mission outside of the unity of administrative support functions that has to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think for what you were putting out, the monthly and then the weekly, do you think it took someone with your type of personality? You seem to be one that, regardless of where or what position you're in, you like to go out and meet the staff and talk to them and learn about things, whether it was always appreciated or not. But you seem like you were that type of person. Do you think that's what helped make that such a success?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think lots of people have those gifts. But if you're going to create something like that, you should staff it with a person that, you know, can do it in an appropriate way. Because of the fact that those types of communications that come out from the main office can be perceived as fluff sheets and nothing substantive, and so they aren't really useful means of communicating. So that's why it was important, I think, to have that. I wasn't—and the Archivist and the Director were not simply trying to propagandize, they were also trying to make this organization a more holistic, well-functioning up-and-down kind of organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well, in this way, you're getting other perspectives that maybe you wouldn't have heard initially, and you’re sharing those perspectives through the newsletter-type thing. So . . . yeah. Today, I'm sure that you're familiar with the ICN [Internal Collaboration Network]."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.227992478133277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah? So maybe that was a product of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Yep. That's right. So those books have been converted now into digital resources. So now you don't have to go to Princeton to look at the Papers of Woodrow Wilson, or even to a library. You can sit in front of your computer and pull those up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mhm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And those books are very expensive to purchase. Those are not things that you and I could afford, you know, the entire set of Woodrow Wilson Papers. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] Yeah, I'm sure. And so then a part of this study that you were working on, you're just checking to see if everything is working well and if there's anything that can be added to it or changed?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.911101824855894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And those books are very expensive to purchase. Those are not things that you and I could afford, you know, the entire set of Woodrow Wilson Papers. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] Yeah, I'm sure. And so then a part of this study that you were working on, you're just checking to see if everything is working well and if there's anything that can be added to it or changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. So the study had a lot to do with process, but there were a lot of the processes that needed attention and, particularly, needed attention given where the Commission was going to be going in terms of this whole new world. For example, once the Commission approves a grant, there is the responsibility to oversee and monitor the use of the funds to ensure they are being spent properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's worth mentioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's very neat. And this is yet another piece that kind of ties you to the National Archives when you were working on that also, and learning about the agency and stuff too."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 33.23455758317321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. So the study had a lot to do with process, but there were a lot of the processes that needed attention and, particularly, needed attention given where the Commission was going to be going in terms of this whole new world. For example, once the Commission approves a grant, there is the responsibility to oversee and monitor the use of the funds to ensure they are being spent properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's worth mentioning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's very neat. And this is yet another piece that kind of ties you to the National Archives when you were working on that also, and learning about the agency and stuff too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very cool. Okay. The other thing I wanted to mention, so at the end of our conversation last time, we were talking about your time at the Office of the Federal Register and how they were starting to move things online. And I know that there were several major projects that were going on around that time. Could you talk about any of those?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 28.306250035010265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are the kinds of documents that you take to the court and record. That's their nature, like laws. And also, before they're published, they are entirely confidential. So there's a lot of security involved. There's a lot of integrity that needs to be 100 percent. So on paper, the eDOCS system looks like a relatively simple off-the-shelf document management system. And that, by the way, is what I think the folks from NARA IT would often see. They’d say (we thought), \"So you're saying you're so special and so different. You know, it's just a document management system.\" Well, yes and no. So in the end then, it's the workhorse of the Federal Register. And also I would say we went from, I don't know, 80 employees down to 40 or 45, and we're producing double the volume of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was the eDOCS system. I was project manager part of the time, and then we had project managers from NARA come in. But I was always deeply involved in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And so they still use that today . . .?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ". . . the eDOCS system? Yeah. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.318210359210596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we greatly appreciate that it's in there. We used to go through other . . . I forget. There was a university, I think, that posted regulations, but you just never knew which was the most current. So it was always very confusing. And so now this is our go-to source. So it's great. Now, who maintains that then? Is it GPO?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Between GPO [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or between both GPO [CROSS TALKING]. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our office is responsible for the content. I mean, the content is prepared by the agencies, but once a final rule is published and given an effective date, then we maintain the Code, and we use GPO computers for the platform where the e-CFR resides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So kind of a mix of both agencies working together on that."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.13134484356733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Between GPO [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or between both GPO [CROSS TALKING]. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our office is responsible for the content. I mean, the content is prepared by the agencies, but once a final rule is published and given an effective date, then we maintain the Code, and we use GPO computers for the platform where the e-CFR resides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So kind of a mix of both agencies working together on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. That seems like it would be a big job to keep up with all of the regulations, with all the agencies, you know? Yeah. Big job."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.469528778485905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So another part of the federalregister.gov project was integrating into the website the commenting process, which—remember, we're the publishers of the document, but the comments are going to the FAA or the IRS or NOAA. And so bringing the comments into our system and then sending them out to the agencies was a very complex process. But yes, now all of that can be done digitally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, that's great. I mean, those are some major projects that you were working with. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet I'll tell you, if anybody ever asked me what I do, I always liked to laugh to see how many seconds until their eyes began to glaze over. It's hard to make the work sound real, real interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, how did this even come to be part of the National Archives? Because, you know, when you talk to someone they're going to be familiar with a Presidential Library maybe, or you hold the Declaration of Independence. Where does this fit in? How did this become part of the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's not a real good insight into that in the legislative record. I think the most we know is that both organizations were created at the same time. So the National Archives was created in 1935, and the Federal Register Act was 1935. And so they were looking for a place to put the Office. There was some discussion about putting it in the attorney general's office because it had this aspect of creating records. I think maybe somebody said, \"Well, we're creating this Archives. That's the organization that keeps the federal records.\" So it's not an entirely illogical explanation, but they are two distinct missions in some ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think just the public and probably even some of NARA's own staff aren't that familiar with the Office of the Federal Register and what it is that the Office does. And we talked a little bit last time about it being brought up in the news more with the whole Presidential . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.521698642762118, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet I'll tell you, if anybody ever asked me what I do, I always liked to laugh to see how many seconds until their eyes began to glaze over. It's hard to make the work sound real, real interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, how did this even come to be part of the National Archives? Because, you know, when you talk to someone they're going to be familiar with a Presidential Library maybe, or you hold the Declaration of Independence. Where does this fit in? How did this become part of the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's not a real good insight into that in the legislative record. I think the most we know is that both organizations were created at the same time. So the National Archives was created in 1935, and the Federal Register Act was 1935. And so they were looking for a place to put the Office. There was some discussion about putting it in the attorney general's office because it had this aspect of creating records. I think maybe somebody said, \"Well, we're creating this Archives. That's the organization that keeps the federal records.\" So it's not an entirely illogical explanation, but they are two distinct missions in some ways."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think just the public and probably even some of NARA's own staff aren't that familiar with the Office of the Federal Register and what it is that the Office does. And we talked a little bit last time about it being brought up in the news more with the whole Presidential . . ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Electoral College."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that Electoral College process and all of that. And people just aren't really familiar with what it is that the Office does. And so you get asked all these questions, and they think that you probably do more than what you do. But, you know, it's . . ."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.70444283957354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[LAUGHS] Wow. So it was all about maintaining continuity and figuring out how this would continue to function and working with agencies and that sort of thing, it sounds like."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what? I'll tell you one take away from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really showed me that in emergencies, we're relying on people. Emergency response will function as well as the people are capable of functioning—individuals. So, in those situations, the people that rise really are the people who have guts, innovation, energy, expertise, because I would say the first league wasn't out on the field, initially. And it's because this whole thing had become kind of unreal—few people thought a nuclear weapon would be exploded, so the people assigned to emergency preparedness weren’t, you know, when real-life crises occurred, those who were used to frontline action, and some were sort of saying, \"What do I do?\" And I think that's true in life. You know, a tornado comes through—you know, I have such respect for what's going on like in Maui [Hawaii] and other places where there's disasters—there are a lot of us that maybe wouldn't know what to do. We'd be sort of paralyzed by what it is. And whether it's war, whether it's disaster, whether it's some other kind of emergency, systems are not adequate. I mean, you can have all the procedures in place, and that's important, but unless you have people that use them, that have a sense of urgency—and I saw a lot of that in that process. And it was a really interesting lesson, or I don't know what to call it, but . . . It gave me a lot of respect for it. We all have our roles, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I guess some are better than others."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.45328235881144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[CROSS TALKING] And police, they have a unique gift. And you saw that, and you saw people that knew what to do. So rapidly, there was a response. And then there were the majority of us that just were so thankful there are people there that know what to do, because I wouldn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, I think there's some training involved, but I think you're right. You know, there are certain innate skills or something about what people can handle and react fast, you know, really fast to something. So, I totally agree with that. Kind of along that same line, I wanted to ask . . . so I believe that you were the executive assistant to Senator Hatfield and then for the Archivist of the United States Don Wilson, and also to the Director of the Office of the Federal Register. Right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five were [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that say about you? Do you have some knack or skill for being able to support people in their role, of making them successful?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.170313732012711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five were [CROSS TALKING]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does that say about you? Do you have some knack or skill for being able to support people in their role, of making them successful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I've concluded that the gift I have is not so much being an innovative thinker. I'm not the person that should sit at the top of an organization and think big thoughts, but I am a person who can listen and kind of capture and articulate what others are saying in a pretty simple way for others. I think I have a sense of when I hear something that's right and something that's not right. I don't mean morally. I mean, this is going to work or this—I think I'm a good analyst of things. So, I think what I could do, what I felt best with, is if I could get with a visionary who is also willing to not just think big thoughts but was willing to take action, I could help that person figure out how to take the action or how to say, \"Here's how to get from what you want to do to accomplishing it, but you've got to do this. You need to get up and make this speech, or you need to issue this memo, or you need to approach this meeting this way.\" I still think I'm pretty much a behind-the-scenes person. I can do the upfront to a certain degree, but there are a lot of people who have more skills than I do in that. But that's what I just kept finding myself falling into. So after a while, I realized that's my niche, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like the Archivist or the Senator or whoever may have this vision, and then you can help them determine how to get from Point A to Point B and to get that implemented."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.415982000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Kind of around that, what do you think is your greatest accomplishment, or what are you most proud of from your time at NARA? You've done a lot of things in a lot of different offices, or a few [LAUGHS], not just one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope I made people's work happy, you know? I hope I was a person that didn't make their days worse. At least, you know, they felt like I was trying to help them. I really wanted to serve people well. I wanted to accomplish things, you know? But, yeah. And it's funny. I think I had two reputations. I think I had kind of a negative reputation. This is probably way too personal for this. I don't know. But I think there are a lot of people who really would say, \"He was a good person. He helped us, and he was for us.\" But there were people that, somehow, I just couldn't connect with. And probably behind doors, they were maybe negative about me. I never had bad motives. I didn't have enemies, you know. If I was in an argument with someone, it was just about the topic. It wasn't, \"I hate you, and I'm going to make your life miserable.\" But I think that's so common that that's what a lot of people, maybe—because, I guess I have some passion sometimes, and maybe my passion comes across a little rough, perhaps. And I don't know. I don't know. That's a part that I never think about, honestly. So . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think we all get along with different personalities, right? So you can't be the only one. Do you remember your last day at the agency in 2021?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I turned off my computer in my home office, and I went downstairs and had dinner. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. You were working from home."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.3580000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. That was the end of my career. Yeah, it was really . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The office did a really neat thing, though. I think two days before, they had an online “Zoom” retirement party, and so there were squares of most of the people on the staff on my computer screen. And some people said some things. I got a chance to say some things. I had watched a woman who had worked in the Federal Register for a long time and, you know, a lot of times retirement parties are kind of a laugh-and-joking kind-of-affair. But at one point, she stood up, and she just spoke to her experience and her career. And it was moving. It was just really nice. And I thought she deserved that, you know, and we deserve to hear this person who's been here a long time. Take ten minutes to let her reflect on her life. I wanted to do that, so I did that. And I have a video of the thing, so that was very sweet. Oh, and they had a cake. They had a cake delivered to my house!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had that in front of me. So that was very creative. But my last day was very underwhelming. [LAUGHS]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so this is during COVID, right? The pandemic? And so everyone was working from home at the time. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00023:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't talk about COVID, but like all the other organizations, we shut down. I mean, we shut our office, but we continued to publish the Federal Register every single day. We never missed anything. We had COVID in the office. We had a security guard who was at the Government Printing Office on Wednesday and died on Saturday from COVID. He was the guard who escorted our agency liaisons up to our office. So we were in fear of what was happening. And there were some other people in the GPO building that passed away. So those were very scary times. I remember someone saying when we first were sent home, “How long do you think it'll last? Two weeks?” And I remember rolling my eyes and saying, \"Are you kidding? No way they're going to let us stay off two weeks.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Two and a half years later we're still . . ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very strange, strange times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think we all thought that. I went back into the office just the other day, and I saw the calendar was still open to March of 2020. So those are just reminders of, wow, everyone thought they were going to be right back. So, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.53246798199261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an effort run by a team across the Agency to look at a design of the service module independent of what the Project was doing, to flesh out the requirements for the vehicle that was going to be bought through what is now the contract that Lockheed Martin has. It was an effort to take the Agency expertise against a set of requirements and determine were those the right set of requirements and what would that cost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, you mentioned the fairings last time. You mentioned how you needed to win support for that idea. Could you share some details about coming up with that concept and then convincing management that it was the right decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. It was a group of engineers at Glenn [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio] who were trying to help the entire Orion Project with the mass to orbit problem that was both in the crew and service module. There were efforts under way for both to drop mass off the vehicle, because it was overweight. This was one of the concepts traded by a couple engineers at Glenn that had come up with the idea, and then there were a lot of technical trades. I don’t know that it was convincing management. It was probably more convincing the entire technical side that it was the right thing to do. So that happened through a series of meetings and formal technical presentations that eventually became the baseline on the vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The last question that I have for you based on the transcript was when you became Director at Glenn, you said that you were helping to make sure that Glenn met the milestones and commitments for EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1. Can you give a couple of examples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The primary one for EFT-1 on our side, we had a number of folks helping the vehicle overall, but the primary one for us was getting the fairing testing done to fly on EFT-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about that a little bit last time. You also mentioned that you were watching EFT-1 with the Glenn folks. Were you in Florida or were you back in Ohio?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.5916310911029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. It was a group of engineers at Glenn [Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio] who were trying to help the entire Orion Project with the mass to orbit problem that was both in the crew and service module. There were efforts under way for both to drop mass off the vehicle, because it was overweight. This was one of the concepts traded by a couple engineers at Glenn that had come up with the idea, and then there were a lot of technical trades. I don’t know that it was convincing management. It was probably more convincing the entire technical side that it was the right thing to do. So that happened through a series of meetings and formal technical presentations that eventually became the baseline on the vehicle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The last question that I have for you based on the transcript was when you became Director at Glenn, you said that you were helping to make sure that Glenn met the milestones and commitments for EFT [Exploration Flight Test]-1. Can you give a couple of examples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The primary one for EFT-1 on our side, we had a number of folks helping the vehicle overall, but the primary one for us was getting the fairing testing done to fly on EFT-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about that a little bit last time. You also mentioned that you were watching EFT-1 with the Glenn folks. Were you in Florida or were you back in Ohio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Florida for the first attempt, but we had some VIPs [Very Important Persons] coming the next day to the Center, so I had to fly home. So I was at Glenn watching with the employees in our auditorium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you present for the recovery or landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.435145656781001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The primary one for EFT-1 on our side, we had a number of folks helping the vehicle overall, but the primary one for us was getting the fairing testing done to fly on EFT-1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about that a little bit last time. You also mentioned that you were watching EFT-1 with the Glenn folks. Were you in Florida or were you back in Ohio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Florida for the first attempt, but we had some VIPs [Very Important Persons] coming the next day to the Center, so I had to fly home. So I was at Glenn watching with the employees in our auditorium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you present for the recovery or landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I watched that actually at the NASA Glenn Visitor Center at the Science Center in Cleveland. I went down and watched that with a number of folks from the public who were at the Science Center that day. We watched it on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant challenge during your time with Orion up to EFT-1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.372384063090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Florida for the first attempt, but we had some VIPs [Very Important Persons] coming the next day to the Center, so I had to fly home. So I was at Glenn watching with the employees in our auditorium."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you present for the recovery or landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I watched that actually at the NASA Glenn Visitor Center at the Science Center in Cleveland. I went down and watched that with a number of folks from the public who were at the Science Center that day. We watched it on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant challenge during your time with Orion up to EFT-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, my personal challenge was probably getting the—I want to almost say Project sold, the ability for Glenn to be a contributor on the Project. Once the technical work came, while challenging, that was easy, because I knew we had good people. Getting the Project sold that it was okay to have Glenn be a member of the team was probably the biggest challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain why? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I’m just curious. Is it because this is more of a human spaceflight endeavor, and Glenn wasn’t necessarily always included in those efforts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.4137600701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I watched that actually at the NASA Glenn Visitor Center at the Science Center in Cleveland. I went down and watched that with a number of folks from the public who were at the Science Center that day. We watched it on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant challenge during your time with Orion up to EFT-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, my personal challenge was probably getting the—I want to almost say Project sold, the ability for Glenn to be a contributor on the Project. Once the technical work came, while challenging, that was easy, because I knew we had good people. Getting the Project sold that it was okay to have Glenn be a member of the team was probably the biggest challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain why? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I’m just curious. Is it because this is more of a human spaceflight endeavor, and Glenn wasn’t necessarily always included in those efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you summed it up well. I think it was the traditional—we still say it today—the human spaceflight centers versus the robotic or the research centers. We tend to stereotype centers and capabilities, and that’s what I believe was happening with Glenn. It was stereotyped as a research center because it said research in the title, even though it had done flight projects for a number of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant contribution to EFT-1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.237511189000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, my personal challenge was probably getting the—I want to almost say Project sold, the ability for Glenn to be a contributor on the Project. Once the technical work came, while challenging, that was easy, because I knew we had good people. Getting the Project sold that it was okay to have Glenn be a member of the team was probably the biggest challenge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you explain why? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I’m just curious. Is it because this is more of a human spaceflight endeavor, and Glenn wasn’t necessarily always included in those efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you summed it up well. I think it was the traditional—we still say it today—the human spaceflight centers versus the robotic or the research centers. We tend to stereotype centers and capabilities, and that’s what I believe was happening with Glenn. It was stereotyped as a research center because it said research in the title, even though it had done flight projects for a number of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant contribution to EFT-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say any contribution I had from a service module perspective or Orion perspective on the technical side was made years before that. The fairings would probably be the biggest thing. In terms of what I did from my management position, it was hopefully enable as I talked about our products to be of the quality that they needed to be to make EFT-1 successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a quote from Program Manager Mark Geyer. He said that the Orion Project learned to persevere. Would you agree or disagree with that statement, and why?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.152790210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you summed it up well. I think it was the traditional—we still say it today—the human spaceflight centers versus the robotic or the research centers. We tend to stereotype centers and capabilities, and that’s what I believe was happening with Glenn. It was stereotyped as a research center because it said research in the title, even though it had done flight projects for a number of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant contribution to EFT-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say any contribution I had from a service module perspective or Orion perspective on the technical side was made years before that. The fairings would probably be the biggest thing. In terms of what I did from my management position, it was hopefully enable as I talked about our products to be of the quality that they needed to be to make EFT-1 successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a quote from Program Manager Mark Geyer. He said that the Orion Project learned to persevere. Would you agree or disagree with that statement, and why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn perseverance?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Learned to persevere."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.1697669, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say any contribution I had from a service module perspective or Orion perspective on the technical side was made years before that. The fairings would probably be the biggest thing. In terms of what I did from my management position, it was hopefully enable as I talked about our products to be of the quality that they needed to be to make EFT-1 successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have a quote from Program Manager Mark Geyer. He said that the Orion Project learned to persevere. Would you agree or disagree with that statement, and why?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn perseverance?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Learned to persevere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely, in many ways. Through the last presidential transition, to every technical challenge that was thrown the team’s way, to everybody knowing better how to design a vehicle, in their opinion, right, knowing better how to design the vehicle, I think they more than persevered. I think they really showed why they’re the team that’s getting it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple of questions for you just related to the service module. The EFT-1 service module was primarily a structural representation of the service module. Were there any lessons learned from that flight that are being then applied to EM-1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 11.299741000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learn perseverance?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Learned to persevere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely, in many ways. Through the last presidential transition, to every technical challenge that was thrown the team’s way, to everybody knowing better how to design a vehicle, in their opinion, right, knowing better how to design the vehicle, I think they more than persevered. I think they really showed why they’re the team that’s getting it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple of questions for you just related to the service module. The EFT-1 service module was primarily a structural representation of the service module. Were there any lessons learned from that flight that are being then applied to EM-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a structural element. I think all the environments that the service module saw from a structural perspective, meaning the loads on the structure, were certainly something that were validated via the EFT-1 flight. I know that the data has been used to inform the evolution of the design. So yes, absolutely, there were things that were learned from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to talk a little bit about the ESM [European Service Module], if you could. Can you talk about NASA’s relationship with ESA [European Space Agency] and the agreement that led to the partnership for the new ESM?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.77749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, absolutely, in many ways. Through the last presidential transition, to every technical challenge that was thrown the team’s way, to everybody knowing better how to design a vehicle, in their opinion, right, knowing better how to design the vehicle, I think they more than persevered. I think they really showed why they’re the team that’s getting it done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a couple of questions for you just related to the service module. The EFT-1 service module was primarily a structural representation of the service module. Were there any lessons learned from that flight that are being then applied to EM-1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a structural element. I think all the environments that the service module saw from a structural perspective, meaning the loads on the structure, were certainly something that were validated via the EFT-1 flight. I know that the data has been used to inform the evolution of the design. So yes, absolutely, there were things that were learned from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to talk a little bit about the ESM [European Service Module], if you could. Can you talk about NASA’s relationship with ESA [European Space Agency] and the agreement that led to the partnership for the new ESM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA’s relationship with ESA is certainly lengthy. first of all. Second of all, it comes from our work on ISS [International Space Station]. I think it was an opportunity for Europe to play a bigger role in human spaceflight. No other country had been in the critical path, meaning it’s got to deliver for our success, meaning the U.S. success. No other country had ever been in that position before. The lessons learned from Space Station of how to work together and how to continue that trust and that development of exploration is what led to the confidence to put Europe in that position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of those negotiations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0861000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was basically a structural element. I think all the environments that the service module saw from a structural perspective, meaning the loads on the structure, were certainly something that were validated via the EFT-1 flight. I know that the data has been used to inform the evolution of the design. So yes, absolutely, there were things that were learned from it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to talk a little bit about the ESM [European Service Module], if you could. Can you talk about NASA’s relationship with ESA [European Space Agency] and the agreement that led to the partnership for the new ESM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA’s relationship with ESA is certainly lengthy. first of all. Second of all, it comes from our work on ISS [International Space Station]. I think it was an opportunity for Europe to play a bigger role in human spaceflight. No other country had been in the critical path, meaning it’s got to deliver for our success, meaning the U.S. success. No other country had ever been in that position before. The lessons learned from Space Station of how to work together and how to continue that trust and that development of exploration is what led to the confidence to put Europe in that position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of those negotiations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not, other than supporting them at the time. I was just transitioning out of Deputy Director and transitioning into Center Director when that agreement was signed so just in terms of supporting the team, hearing about the negotiations, giving them some ideas of potentially how to do things. That was really run by the Project, and certainly Mr. [William H.] Gerstenmaier here at Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your initial thoughts when you heard about this idea? Did you have any concerns?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4290000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think NASA’s relationship with ESA is certainly lengthy. first of all. Second of all, it comes from our work on ISS [International Space Station]. I think it was an opportunity for Europe to play a bigger role in human spaceflight. No other country had been in the critical path, meaning it’s got to deliver for our success, meaning the U.S. success. No other country had ever been in that position before. The lessons learned from Space Station of how to work together and how to continue that trust and that development of exploration is what led to the confidence to put Europe in that position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in any of those negotiations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not, other than supporting them at the time. I was just transitioning out of Deputy Director and transitioning into Center Director when that agreement was signed so just in terms of supporting the team, hearing about the negotiations, giving them some ideas of potentially how to do things. That was really run by the Project, and certainly Mr. [William H.] Gerstenmaier here at Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your initial thoughts when you heard about this idea? Did you have any concerns?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if they’re concerns. Any time you put a different interface in any system, it has the potential to add complexity. But I couldn’t look myself in the eye after encouraging the Agency to entrust Glenn to do the work on service module initially by adding an interface—I was basically doing the same thing—to then look at the Agency and say, “You shouldn’t do this because it adds complexity.” I think the international piece certainly adds a whole different element to it. ESA’s motivation to be a member of the team and the wherewithal to withstand a lot of what we go through in the U.S. on human spaceflight from a political perspective, is something I think Europe has to learn. I don’t know that I had reservations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody at Glenn worry about job security or any of those issues?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not, other than supporting them at the time. I was just transitioning out of Deputy Director and transitioning into Center Director when that agreement was signed so just in terms of supporting the team, hearing about the negotiations, giving them some ideas of potentially how to do things. That was really run by the Project, and certainly Mr. [William H.] Gerstenmaier here at Headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your initial thoughts when you heard about this idea? Did you have any concerns?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if they’re concerns. Any time you put a different interface in any system, it has the potential to add complexity. But I couldn’t look myself in the eye after encouraging the Agency to entrust Glenn to do the work on service module initially by adding an interface—I was basically doing the same thing—to then look at the Agency and say, “You shouldn’t do this because it adds complexity.” I think the international piece certainly adds a whole different element to it. ESA’s motivation to be a member of the team and the wherewithal to withstand a lot of what we go through in the U.S. on human spaceflight from a political perspective, is something I think Europe has to learn. I don’t know that I had reservations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody at Glenn worry about job security or any of those issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, not that I’m aware of. I’m sure they did, but I can’t speak to the fact of anyone ever saying to me, “I’m worried that our job is getting taken away.” I think initially there may have been some thought of that. The time and effort that it takes to work with an international partner has probably had people realize that hey, there isn’t a job issue there at all. We may even have a few more resources than we had previously to do the same work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you had spent some time over in Europe recently, last time we had spoken. What is your role now working on the ESM?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if they’re concerns. Any time you put a different interface in any system, it has the potential to add complexity. But I couldn’t look myself in the eye after encouraging the Agency to entrust Glenn to do the work on service module initially by adding an interface—I was basically doing the same thing—to then look at the Agency and say, “You shouldn’t do this because it adds complexity.” I think the international piece certainly adds a whole different element to it. ESA’s motivation to be a member of the team and the wherewithal to withstand a lot of what we go through in the U.S. on human spaceflight from a political perspective, is something I think Europe has to learn. I don’t know that I had reservations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anybody at Glenn worry about job security or any of those issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, not that I’m aware of. I’m sure they did, but I can’t speak to the fact of anyone ever saying to me, “I’m worried that our job is getting taken away.” I think initially there may have been some thought of that. The time and effort that it takes to work with an international partner has probably had people realize that hey, there isn’t a job issue there at all. We may even have a few more resources than we had previously to do the same work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you had spent some time over in Europe recently, last time we had spoken. What is your role now working on the ESM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m really trying to be the person that tracks it for Mr. Gerstenmaier here in my new capacity, finding ways to build those international relationships, and really ensure that the Project has everything that it needs to get past this critical milestone. As a Headquarters person I can hopefully help with the relationship with the Europeans. So try to learn some of the folks on the Europe side that I had never worked with before and then also take my knowledge of the service module and maybe help get them through some of the difficult technical issues that they face."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of those issues?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boy, not that I’m aware of. I’m sure they did, but I can’t speak to the fact of anyone ever saying to me, “I’m worried that our job is getting taken away.” I think initially there may have been some thought of that. The time and effort that it takes to work with an international partner has probably had people realize that hey, there isn’t a job issue there at all. We may even have a few more resources than we had previously to do the same work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned you had spent some time over in Europe recently, last time we had spoken. What is your role now working on the ESM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m really trying to be the person that tracks it for Mr. Gerstenmaier here in my new capacity, finding ways to build those international relationships, and really ensure that the Project has everything that it needs to get past this critical milestone. As a Headquarters person I can hopefully help with the relationship with the Europeans. So try to learn some of the folks on the Europe side that I had never worked with before and then also take my knowledge of the service module and maybe help get them through some of the difficult technical issues that they face."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of those issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s just general development of a new spacecraft, the interfaces to the crew module being one of them. I think it’s some of the design, how things are designed differently for human-rated vehicles versus robotic vehicles. It’s probably more a cultural transition. Once you get the teams in a room talking through specific technical issues, that was demonstrated to be the easy part. It’s more gaining the perspective that each side has in this type of development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did I read correctly that recently there was a CDR [Critical Design Review] for the ESM?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m really trying to be the person that tracks it for Mr. Gerstenmaier here in my new capacity, finding ways to build those international relationships, and really ensure that the Project has everything that it needs to get past this critical milestone. As a Headquarters person I can hopefully help with the relationship with the Europeans. So try to learn some of the folks on the Europe side that I had never worked with before and then also take my knowledge of the service module and maybe help get them through some of the difficult technical issues that they face."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of those issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s just general development of a new spacecraft, the interfaces to the crew module being one of them. I think it’s some of the design, how things are designed differently for human-rated vehicles versus robotic vehicles. It’s probably more a cultural transition. Once you get the teams in a room talking through specific technical issues, that was demonstrated to be the easy part. It’s more gaining the perspective that each side has in this type of development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did I read correctly that recently there was a CDR [Critical Design Review] for the ESM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what I was over there for, the first phase of that, and the closeout of that will be in the October timeframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That will be delivered to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] in 2017?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00652:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s just general development of a new spacecraft, the interfaces to the crew module being one of them. I think it’s some of the design, how things are designed differently for human-rated vehicles versus robotic vehicles. It’s probably more a cultural transition. Once you get the teams in a room talking through specific technical issues, that was demonstrated to be the easy part. It’s more gaining the perspective that each side has in this type of development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did I read correctly that recently there was a CDR [Critical Design Review] for the ESM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what I was over there for, the first phase of that, and the closeout of that will be in the October timeframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That will be delivered to KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] in 2017?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we’ve gone through all of my questions. You were fast today. Unless there’s anything else that you wanted to talk about in terms of ESM or any other details you think we might have overlooked when we spoke the other day or today. I know you’re on a limited time schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.43564291420842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started in February of '74 as a grade three clerk typist in the correspondence section. And then I did get a promotion to secretary of the Army Reference branch, worked for a while in the Building Manager's office, and ended my career after being Assistant Director’s secretary to being the secretary to the Director and retired in 2016."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations! How did you come to work at the National Archives, and why did you choose to work there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My neighbor was the Marine Corps liaison officer there, and I was looking for a job and was working at a small little store where I lived. And in talking with him, I told him that I had worked for the government before and had almost four years. And he said, \"Why don't you come to work? You have reinstatement rights. I'm going to get you an application. Call CPR and get a statement of service.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any impressions of the agency at the time you began your career? Did you know anything about them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew nothing about it. I saw that a record center had burned on the fire in July of '73, but I had no idea what records they were referring to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So when you started, did they give you any particular kind of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8173810157871335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My neighbor was the Marine Corps liaison officer there, and I was looking for a job and was working at a small little store where I lived. And in talking with him, I told him that I had worked for the government before and had almost four years. And he said, \"Why don't you come to work? You have reinstatement rights. I'm going to get you an application. Call CPR and get a statement of service.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any impressions of the agency at the time you began your career? Did you know anything about them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew nothing about it. I saw that a record center had burned on the fire in July of '73, but I had no idea what records they were referring to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So when you started, did they give you any particular kind of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Training was short. It was mostly typing from drafts that the archives techs prepared in response to requests. But working with them taught me more than I could ever have learned otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Very in-hand sort of learning. Yeah. Awesome. What aspects of the work did you enjoy? Was there anything in particular that stood out?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.130423350874593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew nothing about it. I saw that a record center had burned on the fire in July of '73, but I had no idea what records they were referring to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So when you started, did they give you any particular kind of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Training was short. It was mostly typing from drafts that the archives techs prepared in response to requests. But working with them taught me more than I could ever have learned otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Very in-hand sort of learning. Yeah. Awesome. What aspects of the work did you enjoy? Was there anything in particular that stood out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I favored being either a typist or secretarial type, but I did work cases for about a year and a half, and then I was offered a reassignment to a secretarial position, so I took that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your work like in the secretarial position?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4782481676384363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Training was short. It was mostly typing from drafts that the archives techs prepared in response to requests. But working with them taught me more than I could ever have learned otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Very in-hand sort of learning. Yeah. Awesome. What aspects of the work did you enjoy? Was there anything in particular that stood out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I favored being either a typist or secretarial type, but I did work cases for about a year and a half, and then I was offered a reassignment to a secretarial position, so I took that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your work like in the secretarial position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of it had to do with disciplinary actions. And at that time on, you know, electric typewriters, we had the original and five carbon copies. It also involved typing responses to requests that the Branch Chief handled. Also keeping time cards and just general clerical duties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so what made you want to move to the secretarial position? Was it just that you liked the work more? Did they offer different hours?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.864720186264929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I favored being either a typist or secretarial type, but I did work cases for about a year and a half, and then I was offered a reassignment to a secretarial position, so I took that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your work like in the secretarial position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of it had to do with disciplinary actions. And at that time on, you know, electric typewriters, we had the original and five carbon copies. It also involved typing responses to requests that the Branch Chief handled. Also keeping time cards and just general clerical duties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so what made you want to move to the secretarial position? Was it just that you liked the work more? Did they offer different hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just enjoyed answering the phone, interacting with people, that type of thing. You know, having visitors come or setting up a meeting rather than just typing from drafts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that makes sense. Do you recall any particularly unusual, challenging, or anything that sticks out in your mind regarding your job in its entirety from the beginning to the end?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.294133540294365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of it had to do with disciplinary actions. And at that time on, you know, electric typewriters, we had the original and five carbon copies. It also involved typing responses to requests that the Branch Chief handled. Also keeping time cards and just general clerical duties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so what made you want to move to the secretarial position? Was it just that you liked the work more? Did they offer different hours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just enjoyed answering the phone, interacting with people, that type of thing. You know, having visitors come or setting up a meeting rather than just typing from drafts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that makes sense. Do you recall any particularly unusual, challenging, or anything that sticks out in your mind regarding your job in its entirety from the beginning to the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you know if changes in Presidential administrations or changes for the Archivists of the U.S. administrations, did that change the nature of your work at all, or was it pretty consistent regardless of who was President?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.771259489215962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just enjoyed answering the phone, interacting with people, that type of thing. You know, having visitors come or setting up a meeting rather than just typing from drafts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that makes sense. Do you recall any particularly unusual, challenging, or anything that sticks out in your mind regarding your job in its entirety from the beginning to the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you know if changes in Presidential administrations or changes for the Archivists of the U.S. administrations, did that change the nature of your work at all, or was it pretty consistent regardless of who was President?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work was pretty consistent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's what we're getting from a lot of people."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.30139943246218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Do you know if changes in Presidential administrations or changes for the Archivists of the U.S. administrations, did that change the nature of your work at all, or was it pretty consistent regardless of who was President?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work was pretty consistent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's what we're getting from a lot of people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, veterans write in that they need this, this, this or that from the record, and we provided it hopefully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say were the most significant turning points in your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.890443813846867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work was pretty consistent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, that's what we're getting from a lot of people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, veterans write in that they need this, this, this or that from the record, and we provided it hopefully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say were the most significant turning points in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess when I was selected to be the secretary to the Assistant Director. And then when the Director's secretary retired, I applied to be the Director's secretary. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that selection process like?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.544937570940963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, veterans write in that they need this, this, this or that from the record, and we provided it hopefully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say were the most significant turning points in your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess when I was selected to be the secretary to the Assistant Director. And then when the Director's secretary retired, I applied to be the Director's secretary. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that selection process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Assistant Director. I think back then, I can't remember what year I was selected for that position. It was like a written resume or he was aware of the work that all the applicants did because we were all in the center. For the Director's secretary position, it was done online."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, did you have any relationship with the other federal agencies like the Army, the VA, Air Force, any of those?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.938819523267736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess when I was selected to be the secretary to the Assistant Director. And then when the Director's secretary retired, I applied to be the Director's secretary. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that selection process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Assistant Director. I think back then, I can't remember what year I was selected for that position. It was like a written resume or he was aware of the work that all the applicants did because we were all in the center. For the Director's secretary position, it was done online."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, did you have any relationship with the other federal agencies like the Army, the VA, Air Force, any of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I began working for the government at the Aeronautical Chart and Information Center. It became Defense Mapping, and it now has another name, National Geospatial something or other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your greatest accomplishment while working at NARA?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.376466136964151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Assistant Director. I think back then, I can't remember what year I was selected for that position. It was like a written resume or he was aware of the work that all the applicants did because we were all in the center. For the Director's secretary position, it was done online."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, did you have any relationship with the other federal agencies like the Army, the VA, Air Force, any of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I began working for the government at the Aeronautical Chart and Information Center. It became Defense Mapping, and it now has another name, National Geospatial something or other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your greatest accomplishment while working at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, becoming the secretary to the Director brought me to a grade level I'd never thought I would achieve and felt very proud of myself for accomplishing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you should. That's a very competitive position."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.86274015218239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I began working for the government at the Aeronautical Chart and Information Center. It became Defense Mapping, and it now has another name, National Geospatial something or other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your greatest accomplishment while working at NARA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, becoming the secretary to the Director brought me to a grade level I'd never thought I would achieve and felt very proud of myself for accomplishing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you should. That's a very competitive position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What kind of technological advancements have you observed throughout your career there?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.403044613535989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, becoming the secretary to the Director brought me to a grade level I'd never thought I would achieve and felt very proud of myself for accomplishing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you should. That's a very competitive position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What kind of technological advancements have you observed throughout your career there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, starting with doing everything with pencil and paper to getting computers, learning how to do time and attendance on computers, searching for records on computers, or requesting records on computers, everything. It just was a whole new thing because everything in the beginning was paper and pencil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And carbon copies."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.003382903928876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What kind of technological advancements have you observed throughout your career there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, starting with doing everything with pencil and paper to getting computers, learning how to do time and attendance on computers, searching for records on computers, or requesting records on computers, everything. It just was a whole new thing because everything in the beginning was paper and pencil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And carbon copies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, carbon copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your last day at the National Archives? What did that feel like?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.559314337698751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, starting with doing everything with pencil and paper to getting computers, learning how to do time and attendance on computers, searching for records on computers, or requesting records on computers, everything. It just was a whole new thing because everything in the beginning was paper and pencil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And carbon copies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, carbon copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your last day at the National Archives? What did that feel like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work day or my retirement day?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking work day, but we can go with retirement day."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8436825974430575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, carbon copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your last day at the National Archives? What did that feel like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work day or my retirement day?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking work day, but we can go with retirement day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Retirement day was amazing because I don't think I even went up to my office until after the party and finished cleaning out. But it was quite humbling. There were a lot of people there. My family was there, but the highlight was when Jay Trainer put on a St. Louis Cardinals hat for me. That was just shocking. Jay was a good guy. But for him to do that, I think it caused him a little bit of pain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a fan of the Cards?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.048536219381175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My work day or my retirement day?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking work day, but we can go with retirement day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Retirement day was amazing because I don't think I even went up to my office until after the party and finished cleaning out. But it was quite humbling. There were a lot of people there. My family was there, but the highlight was when Jay Trainer put on a St. Louis Cardinals hat for me. That was just shocking. Jay was a good guy. But for him to do that, I think it caused him a little bit of pain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a fan of the Cards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I can't remember who he likes. Cincinnati Reds. It was not his team. It was not his team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a sacrifice then."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.276151354867972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Retirement day was amazing because I don't think I even went up to my office until after the party and finished cleaning out. But it was quite humbling. There were a lot of people there. My family was there, but the highlight was when Jay Trainer put on a St. Louis Cardinals hat for me. That was just shocking. Jay was a good guy. But for him to do that, I think it caused him a little bit of pain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not a fan of the Cards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I can't remember who he likes. Cincinnati Reds. It was not his team. It was not his team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a sacrifice then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time in the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5290570609644134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I can't remember who he likes. Cincinnati Reds. It was not his team. It was not his team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a sacrifice then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time in the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, looking back on it, are you like, do you kind of miss it? Are you proud of it? Are you like, \"I am retired now? I'm done with it all.\""}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.81006340107157, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you view your time in the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, looking back on it, are you like, do you kind of miss it? Are you proud of it? Are you like, \"I am retired now? I'm done with it all.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am retired now. I don't miss it. I do think of some of the people I worked with. It was a very good work experience. It was a good, good place to work with a lot of nice, very smart people. And there was a lot of history, and I learned a lot of things working there well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what message or advice would you give to someone just starting at the National Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1222926678573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What do you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, looking back on it, are you like, do you kind of miss it? Are you proud of it? Are you like, \"I am retired now? I'm done with it all.\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am retired now. I don't miss it. I do think of some of the people I worked with. It was a very good work experience. It was a good, good place to work with a lot of nice, very smart people. And there was a lot of history, and I learned a lot of things working there well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what message or advice would you give to someone just starting at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do your best. Work hard. I mean, today you have a much better chance of advancing and making a fairly good salary than we did back when."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you would like to add to the section of the interview that is obviously career specific? Anything else in your career you'd like to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4692140753969998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am retired now. I don't miss it. I do think of some of the people I worked with. It was a very good work experience. It was a good, good place to work with a lot of nice, very smart people. And there was a lot of history, and I learned a lot of things working there well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what message or advice would you give to someone just starting at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do your best. Work hard. I mean, today you have a much better chance of advancing and making a fairly good salary than we did back when."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you would like to add to the section of the interview that is obviously career specific? Anything else in your career you'd like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I think most of it was very good, you know, I mean, there were a few things I didn't care for from time to time, but that goes with anything. If I'm going to shout out to somebody, it would be to the mailroom people. They were always there to help. They were great. They were great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. So now, because the oral histories are in part looking at the 1973 anniversary of the fire, I'm going to move on to questions that are a little more specific about the fire and its aftermath. Okay. I know that you didn't start until 1974, but I'm sure that there was a lot still going on with the fire. Well, first of all, do you remember anything about hearing about the fire before you started when it was happening?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.854682305996666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do your best. Work hard. I mean, today you have a much better chance of advancing and making a fairly good salary than we did back when."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you would like to add to the section of the interview that is obviously career specific? Anything else in your career you'd like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I think most of it was very good, you know, I mean, there were a few things I didn't care for from time to time, but that goes with anything. If I'm going to shout out to somebody, it would be to the mailroom people. They were always there to help. They were great. They were great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. So now, because the oral histories are in part looking at the 1973 anniversary of the fire, I'm going to move on to questions that are a little more specific about the fire and its aftermath. Okay. I know that you didn't start until 1974, but I'm sure that there was a lot still going on with the fire. Well, first of all, do you remember anything about hearing about the fire before you started when it was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it on TV. It was on the news that the record center was on fire. I had no idea what records they were referring to. I had never heard of the record center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I bet it was a big shock to come there '74 and realize just how much that affected things. What was it like starting at the National Archives right after the fire? What kind of impact did you see on how people did their job day to day? How did it affect everyone?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.1718692288851846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I think most of it was very good, you know, I mean, there were a few things I didn't care for from time to time, but that goes with anything. If I'm going to shout out to somebody, it would be to the mailroom people. They were always there to help. They were great. They were great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Awesome. So now, because the oral histories are in part looking at the 1973 anniversary of the fire, I'm going to move on to questions that are a little more specific about the fire and its aftermath. Okay. I know that you didn't start until 1974, but I'm sure that there was a lot still going on with the fire. Well, first of all, do you remember anything about hearing about the fire before you started when it was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it on TV. It was on the news that the record center was on fire. I had no idea what records they were referring to. I had never heard of the record center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I bet it was a big shock to come there '74 and realize just how much that affected things. What was it like starting at the National Archives right after the fire? What kind of impact did you see on how people did their job day to day? How did it affect everyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a little bit nervous about starting. I hadn't worked in about 12 years. People seemed to be pretty conscientious about doing their job. The offices were in a huge room. Everybody was together and the supervisors were able to see if you were not doing your job or kind of goofing off, they could see and fix that right away. But it was a good place. And it seemed like people were there to do their work, do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At that point in time, did you interact with the burnt records at all? Did you see the burnt records in any capacity?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4131880320946495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I saw it on TV. It was on the news that the record center was on fire. I had no idea what records they were referring to. I had never heard of the record center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So I bet it was a big shock to come there '74 and realize just how much that affected things. What was it like starting at the National Archives right after the fire? What kind of impact did you see on how people did their job day to day? How did it affect everyone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a little bit nervous about starting. I hadn't worked in about 12 years. People seemed to be pretty conscientious about doing their job. The offices were in a huge room. Everybody was together and the supervisors were able to see if you were not doing your job or kind of goofing off, they could see and fix that right away. But it was a good place. And it seemed like people were there to do their work, do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At that point in time, did you interact with the burnt records at all? Did you see the burnt records in any capacity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I saw records opened up on the window sills in the offices with the windows open, trying to dry them out. And we have come such a long way from that. But upon entering the building, you could smell the dampness and then you could see maybe water stains or wet stains on the wall still. And then you would maybe see a little puddle here and there. But for the records when I worked cases, that was an eye opener because I worked in the Records Reconstruction Branch, where we did get all the burnt records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during your job in the Records Reconstruction Branch, what were your responsibilities there at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5702089245496103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a little bit nervous about starting. I hadn't worked in about 12 years. People seemed to be pretty conscientious about doing their job. The offices were in a huge room. Everybody was together and the supervisors were able to see if you were not doing your job or kind of goofing off, they could see and fix that right away. But it was a good place. And it seemed like people were there to do their work, do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. At that point in time, did you interact with the burnt records at all? Did you see the burnt records in any capacity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I saw records opened up on the window sills in the offices with the windows open, trying to dry them out. And we have come such a long way from that. But upon entering the building, you could smell the dampness and then you could see maybe water stains or wet stains on the wall still. And then you would maybe see a little puddle here and there. But for the records when I worked cases, that was an eye opener because I worked in the Records Reconstruction Branch, where we did get all the burnt records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during your job in the Records Reconstruction Branch, what were your responsibilities there at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, I was a secretary to the Branch Chief, but I had been an archives tech and worked cases, the position right before that. And so I knew how to work cases. I worked in the Air Force Reference Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. When the fire occurred, it was largely on the sixth floor. So it affected the records on the fifth and the sixth floors. Where were the records being stored at this time? Immediately after, when you started work, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7446765828329003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I saw records opened up on the window sills in the offices with the windows open, trying to dry them out. And we have come such a long way from that. But upon entering the building, you could smell the dampness and then you could see maybe water stains or wet stains on the wall still. And then you would maybe see a little puddle here and there. But for the records when I worked cases, that was an eye opener because I worked in the Records Reconstruction Branch, where we did get all the burnt records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during your job in the Records Reconstruction Branch, what were your responsibilities there at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, I was a secretary to the Branch Chief, but I had been an archives tech and worked cases, the position right before that. And so I knew how to work cases. I worked in the Air Force Reference Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. When the fire occurred, it was largely on the sixth floor. So it affected the records on the fifth and the sixth floors. Where were the records being stored at this time? Immediately after, when you started work, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The records that were not involved?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the records that had been burned but were still salvageable."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9385295364810002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, I was a secretary to the Branch Chief, but I had been an archives tech and worked cases, the position right before that. And so I knew how to work cases. I worked in the Air Force Reference Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. When the fire occurred, it was largely on the sixth floor. So it affected the records on the fifth and the sixth floors. Where were the records being stored at this time? Immediately after, when you started work, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The records that were not involved?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the records that had been burned but were still salvageable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I really don't know. I don't know. I'm not aware that they were able to salvage any of them on the sixth floor. But I could be wrong about that. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where was your office? What floor was it on?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1586784401000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I really don't know. I don't know. I'm not aware that they were able to salvage any of them on the sixth floor. But I could be wrong about that. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Where was your office? What floor was it on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly on the second floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Recon [Reconstruction Branch] was started on the ground floor at the east end of the building. And then we came up to the second floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, What did Recon do at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2874204890000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly on the second floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Recon [Reconstruction Branch] was started on the ground floor at the east end of the building. And then we came up to the second floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, What did Recon do at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, mostly they worked with the burnt records or fire-related records, I should say. And they had different sources they could go to to help verify service if it wasn't contained in the record or if they couldn't actually get through the record. They had an organizational records section which searched organizational records, and we had our own search section, which had service number index, pay vouchers, and documents like that that you could go to verify certain parts of a person's military service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. We still occasionally have stuff like that. We still go to that. Do you recall how many records requests were coming in per week at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.4304672100000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Recon [Reconstruction Branch] was started on the ground floor at the east end of the building. And then we came up to the second floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, What did Recon do at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, mostly they worked with the burnt records or fire-related records, I should say. And they had different sources they could go to to help verify service if it wasn't contained in the record or if they couldn't actually get through the record. They had an organizational records section which searched organizational records, and we had our own search section, which had service number index, pay vouchers, and documents like that that you could go to verify certain parts of a person's military service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. We still occasionally have stuff like that. We still go to that. Do you recall how many records requests were coming in per week at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could be wrong here, but I think when the backlog would reach 100,000, the center Director would go, no way. So yeah, I don't know how many were coming in, but I know when the backlog hit, if it came near 100,000, that was not acceptable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so at the very beginning when you did actually work as an archives technician, how many of the requests for records would you estimate were for ones that were burnt versus ones that were not damaged."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, mostly they worked with the burnt records or fire-related records, I should say. And they had different sources they could go to to help verify service if it wasn't contained in the record or if they couldn't actually get through the record. They had an organizational records section which searched organizational records, and we had our own search section, which had service number index, pay vouchers, and documents like that that you could go to verify certain parts of a person's military service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. We still occasionally have stuff like that. We still go to that. Do you recall how many records requests were coming in per week at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could be wrong here, but I think when the backlog would reach 100,000, the center Director would go, no way. So yeah, I don't know how many were coming in, but I know when the backlog hit, if it came near 100,000, that was not acceptable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so at the very beginning when you did actually work as an archives technician, how many of the requests for records would you estimate were for ones that were burnt versus ones that were not damaged."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I worked in the Archives as an archives tech, I worked in the Air Force Reference Branch, so I did not have burnt records to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to avoid those ones. So did you ever have to deal with the original burnt records at any point in time? Did you have to physically handle them?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could be wrong here, but I think when the backlog would reach 100,000, the center Director would go, no way. So yeah, I don't know how many were coming in, but I know when the backlog hit, if it came near 100,000, that was not acceptable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so at the very beginning when you did actually work as an archives technician, how many of the requests for records would you estimate were for ones that were burnt versus ones that were not damaged."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I worked in the Archives as an archives tech, I worked in the Air Force Reference Branch, so I did not have burnt records to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to avoid those ones. So did you ever have to deal with the original burnt records at any point in time? Did you have to physically handle them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What did they look like?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I worked in the Archives as an archives tech, I worked in the Air Force Reference Branch, so I did not have burnt records to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to avoid those ones. So did you ever have to deal with the original burnt records at any point in time? Did you have to physically handle them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What did they look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they varied from just being singed around the edges to opening a record and finding half of the document was burnt, and sometimes because they had had water damage, when you tried to separate the pages, they would crinkle and crack. So you really couldn't get into the record at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were handling them, did you have to wear anything like masks or gloves at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What did they look like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they varied from just being singed around the edges to opening a record and finding half of the document was burnt, and sometimes because they had had water damage, when you tried to separate the pages, they would crinkle and crack. So you really couldn't get into the record at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were handling them, did you have to wear anything like masks or gloves at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of that was needed at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they varied from just being singed around the edges to opening a record and finding half of the document was burnt, and sometimes because they had had water damage, when you tried to separate the pages, they would crinkle and crack. So you really couldn't get into the record at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were handling them, did you have to wear anything like masks or gloves at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of that was needed at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did they smell like smoke?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "None of that was needed at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did they smell like smoke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a certain smell. I don't think it was smoke. It was more like wet paper, damp, you know. And sometimes when you'd open it up, you'd kind of start itching because maybe there were like little paper mites or something in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they moldy?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did they smell like smoke?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a certain smell. I don't think it was smoke. It was more like wet paper, damp, you know. And sometimes when you'd open it up, you'd kind of start itching because maybe there were like little paper mites or something in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they moldy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. In the years immediately after the fire. So let's say '74, '75, '76, how much did people commemorate the anniversary? Did they pause and remember and think about the fire every July 12th? Or was it just kind of going about your business?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a certain smell. I don't think it was smoke. It was more like wet paper, damp, you know. And sometimes when you'd open it up, you'd kind of start itching because maybe there were like little paper mites or something in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they moldy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. In the years immediately after the fire. So let's say '74, '75, '76, how much did people commemorate the anniversary? Did they pause and remember and think about the fire every July 12th? Or was it just kind of going about your business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I mean, we knew the date, but no, nothing specific was remembered or celebrated or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Did your work change the way that you view records or the importance of records?"}]}
{"block_id": "nprc-oral-histories-00007:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. In the years immediately after the fire. So let's say '74, '75, '76, how much did people commemorate the anniversary? Did they pause and remember and think about the fire every July 12th? Or was it just kind of going about your business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I mean, we knew the date, but no, nothing specific was remembered or celebrated or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah. Did your work change the way that you view records or the importance of records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Well, not knowing that the records even existed or not ever having thought about it since I didn't know what records were there on Page. Yes, for sure it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.870338044022866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, oh, yes. We’d also tell the contractors what we felt needed to be done to improve their simulations.\\n\\n Can you tell if I’m recording or not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was just wondering here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Everything sounds good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t want to be doing all this blabbing here and not have it recorded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. The good thing about this [recorder] is it actually has two different reads, for both of our mikes on it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.855931160025406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I was just wondering here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Everything sounds good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t want to be doing all this blabbing here and not have it recorded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. The good thing about this [recorder] is it actually has two different reads, for both of our mikes on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now the next question I had is do you want me just to go right on through to the projects that I did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If that flows well for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 55.3954790666949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t want to be doing all this blabbing here and not have it recorded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. The good thing about this [recorder] is it actually has two different reads, for both of our mikes on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now the next question I had is do you want me just to go right on through to the projects that I did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If that flows well for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you interested in those sorts of things?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely, absolutely."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 46.357021190551585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Neil said that. It was very comforting to find out that the lunar module flew quite similar in terms of attitude, in terms of handling characteristics as the lunar landing training vehicle. Of course, that’s one of the satisfactions that you get personally as a reward other than some little medal that somebody might pin on your chest and say “Good boy, Dean.” It’s something that you remember long after you’re gone from the program. It’s something you feel very proud of that you did even if nobody else knows, or very few people know that you did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly is something to be proud of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know whether I’ve covered your question or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve covered it pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are a lot of other subtle differences between the vehicles as well, but I think those were the major things. The major thing that was important to the astronaut was the recognition of the attitude and that they had to refer to instruments rather than look out the window because you really couldn’t judge your pitch by looking out the window. The second thing was to crank up a good pitch angle and hold it and wait to see what the response was as you were descending to the lunar surface to null out your velocity.\\n\\n In Neil’s case, he got down fairly close to the surface and was horizontal, stopped his descent and flew along horizontal just above the place where he was getting the dust cloud because he could see places where he didn’t want to land since we was horizontal now. Then rather than have to pitch the vehicle up, it wasn’t much of a pitch then to stop the vehicle because he was only going forward at a few feet per second at that point in time. So he could pitch it up at a relatively benign angle and stop his velocity and then set down, which he did with maybe ten seconds’ worth of fuel left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you follow the landing very closely? Do you remember where you were?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 53.987683388959645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I wasn’t there. I had told Deke [Donald K. Slayton] that since I had spent the last two years prior to the lunar landing almost totally dedicated to that vehicle, plus some of these other tasks that I had, I was usually out there twenty hours a day, seven days a week for two years because there were always problems and there were always decisions to be made. We had accidents and we had to put a third vehicle in the wind tunnel to determine what our real problems were. There were always electrical and electronic bugs to fix, things that we couldn’t imagine happening on the vehicle but it did; such as, the system always switching into backup at certain times when we were flying it. We had no idea why until we finally wondered if that big search radar that Ellington had was causing us a problem. So we had telecommunications division come out and set up a system to measure the electromagnetic pulse we were getting from the search radar. Sure enough, when that thing was pointed right at us, in flight or on the ground, it would switch our electronic system.\\n\\n If you believe the readings, everybody out there was sterile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s not quite so good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the energy was so strong. What we got the Air Force to do with some cajoling was to turn the radar system off or point it in a different direction and leave our sector clear while we were flying the crews out there. But that jumps ahead quite a ways from your list of questions, if we want to take things in order."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. We can go back. It all seemed to flow logically there, so that’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s probably some other things we could talk about on the project, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, we can always come back to it, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 52.20853709884405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the energy was so strong. What we got the Air Force to do with some cajoling was to turn the radar system off or point it in a different direction and leave our sector clear while we were flying the crews out there. But that jumps ahead quite a ways from your list of questions, if we want to take things in order."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. We can go back. It all seemed to flow logically there, so that’s all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s probably some other things we could talk about on the project, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Well, we can always come back to it, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You have my orbital rendezvous work with Buzz [Edwin E.] Aldrin [Jr.]. That’s a long story. The one thing I’ll say about Buzz is that he could come up with more ideas in five minutes than would take me twenty-four hours to shoot down.\\n\\n He had a lot of good ideas, and some we incorporated into the orbital rendezvous procedures. Buzz wrote his Ph.D. thesis on orbital rendezvous when he at MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology] before he got selected as an astronaut. So that’s why they always called him Mr. Rendezvous, if you’ve ever heard that statement.\\n\\n It’s interesting that Buzz, I don’t know how widely he admitted this, but he admitted that after working on the actual orbital rendezvous with me and others during the Gemini spacecraft flight, that he found out that his thesis was wrong, or at least some parts of it were wrong. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s always a learning process."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.716829834365427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on anything. He was adamant about that. So before we’d come down, they sent Bill [Howard W.] Tindall [Jr.], who was the assistant director for?I can’t remember what the name of his division was at the time that he was in. It’s like MOD or something close to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "MPAD or Mission Planning [and Analysis Division]—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "MPAD, MPAD. I loved that guy. I’m sorry that he’s gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we’re very sorry about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His Tindallgrams were just priceless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you could hold that thought real quick, I’ll change out the tape. [Tape change]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.907588704850475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "MPAD, MPAD. I loved that guy. I’m sorry that he’s gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we’re very sorry about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His Tindallgrams were just priceless."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you could hold that thought real quick, I’ll change out the tape. [Tape change]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they had sent Bill Tindall before they had this big meeting at MSC because he was over that group that I had tried to work with for developing the trajectories and procedures and so forth at JSC. They weren’t able to, their computer would not do what I needed one, and they agreed with that. Bob [Robert W.] Becker was the guy that I worked with at that point in time, and [Edgar C.] Lineberry.\\n\\n So Bill came up and sat with the crew and watched them for a day, and he said, “Yep, Dean, it works.” So he went [home]. So when they asked Bill, oh, this guy at Headquarters says we need to get [The] Boeing [Company], who was the Headquarters contractor at that time supporting Headquarters, and they did theoretically all these analytical studies to give Headquarters the warm and bubbly feelings. He [the Headquarters guy] said, “We need to have Boeing take six months and run a good analysis of orbital rendezvous and Grimm’s procedures and so forth, because we think it’s snake oil.” So he recommended that the orbital rendezvous thing be postponed, the mission be postponed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was already while the Gemini Program is in process now?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.08683331389034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Guenter, Guenter, yes. I never can remember his name, but yes.\\n\\n So there was just a lot of things going on. My plate was certainly full during that period of time. I’m sure other peoples’ were too, but the one thing that if I ever had to criticize Warren North about was that he didn’t trust a lot of people, and you had to prove yourself to him. But once you proved yourself to him, there was no limit to what he would dump on you. [Laughter] And he dumped on me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess proving yourself wasn’t necessarily a good thing then, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s probably true, but I was a glutton for punishment, and of course, like I’d said earlier, I always loved challenges. I was so into this program that I couldn’t hardly wait to go to work every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. A lot of people can’t say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was that way up until probably the last three years of my time with NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really good. That’s very fortunate."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.763148126544824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s probably true, but I was a glutton for punishment, and of course, like I’d said earlier, I always loved challenges. I was so into this program that I couldn’t hardly wait to go to work every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. A lot of people can’t say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was that way up until probably the last three years of my time with NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really good. That’s very fortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, it’s been that way at Boeing, when I was at Convair, when I was with FAA, I just loved my job and dug into it and said there’s always things to learn and always to grow, always ways to do new things and there almost wasn’t a challenge that I wouldn’t accept. Fortunately I was in the position where you could do those things, and then I had a boss who had enough confidence in me to let me do it. That’s a wonderful to have, because I would say that there’s not many people that can say during their professional career that they had a boss who had confidence in them and let them do their thing without much guidance.\\n\\n Of course, in many things we were doing there wasn’t much guidance to be given because everything we were doing was new. It was a one-of-a-kind first-time project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never been done before."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.73683125171647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was that way up until probably the last three years of my time with NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really good. That’s very fortunate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, it’s been that way at Boeing, when I was at Convair, when I was with FAA, I just loved my job and dug into it and said there’s always things to learn and always to grow, always ways to do new things and there almost wasn’t a challenge that I wouldn’t accept. Fortunately I was in the position where you could do those things, and then I had a boss who had enough confidence in me to let me do it. That’s a wonderful to have, because I would say that there’s not many people that can say during their professional career that they had a boss who had confidence in them and let them do their thing without much guidance.\\n\\n Of course, in many things we were doing there wasn’t much guidance to be given because everything we were doing was new. It was a one-of-a-kind first-time project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never been done before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never been done before. And thank God, we didn’t make many mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It all came together so well, considering how little background there was in it all."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.0409236130183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, it’s been that way at Boeing, when I was at Convair, when I was with FAA, I just loved my job and dug into it and said there’s always things to learn and always to grow, always ways to do new things and there almost wasn’t a challenge that I wouldn’t accept. Fortunately I was in the position where you could do those things, and then I had a boss who had enough confidence in me to let me do it. That’s a wonderful to have, because I would say that there’s not many people that can say during their professional career that they had a boss who had confidence in them and let them do their thing without much guidance.\\n\\n Of course, in many things we were doing there wasn’t much guidance to be given because everything we were doing was new. It was a one-of-a-kind first-time project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never been done before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never been done before. And thank God, we didn’t make many mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It all came together so well, considering how little background there was in it all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that covers the—there’s some interesting things that happened during that orbital rendezvous training that I won’t get into, but would make for a spicy book sometime. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking a little bit on rendezvous, later in the program, after it was proved out for the first couple missions in Gemini, then later they began testing different types of rendezvous, even one that was the direct rendezvous. Were a lot of those procedures based on what you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.20762678536723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was doing other things at that point in time. I had people there in the control rooms but I was not there. I think that Holloway, Tommy or some of his people and Lineberry over in MPAD and Paul Cramer’s group from the mission planning branch?that’s not his title. I can’t remember what it was?that was in our division, was the one working with Lineberry to develop the different rendezvous concepts at that point in time. I sort of passed it off because I told Warren this wasn’t my area of expertise.\\n\\n We proved our point and had been successful and had backup procedures and it was time for the people who had that responsibility to pick it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, by the end of this you had sort of become somewhat of an expert in the area."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More than I had ever envisioned, yes.\\n\\n But so I think that kind of covers most of the things on the Gemini missions that I was involved in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were also involved with the crew stations, but that was primarily on Apollo; is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mainly on Apollo. As I said, the only thing I was involved with the crew station was the handling qualities for the docking area and the things I’ve already covered on the Gemini Program. I was much more involved in the crew station area in Apollo [Command Module and] in the Lunar Module area and so forth.\\n\\n So I think you asked the question on the next line there about did I participate in actual missions? Only on that one, was I over there.\\n\\n You asked what my thoughts were when they successfully achieved rendezvous. I had no doubt. I was very pleased, obviously, and I think I even got a commendation, I think on that. Should have been money, but it was only a commendation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least there was recognition for your efforts. Did that come from Headquarters? Were they finally recognizing that, yes, your procedures had—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 54.67514087263026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More than I had ever envisioned, yes.\\n\\n But so I think that kind of covers most of the things on the Gemini missions that I was involved in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were also involved with the crew stations, but that was primarily on Apollo; is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mainly on Apollo. As I said, the only thing I was involved with the crew station was the handling qualities for the docking area and the things I’ve already covered on the Gemini Program. I was much more involved in the crew station area in Apollo [Command Module and] in the Lunar Module area and so forth.\\n\\n So I think you asked the question on the next line there about did I participate in actual missions? Only on that one, was I over there.\\n\\n You asked what my thoughts were when they successfully achieved rendezvous. I had no doubt. I was very pleased, obviously, and I think I even got a commendation, I think on that. Should have been money, but it was only a commendation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least there was recognition for your efforts. Did that come from Headquarters? Were they finally recognizing that, yes, your procedures had—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that didn’t come from Headquarters. That came from JSC. I think Warren put me in for that commendation. At that time they weren’t giving out the exceptional service medals, distinguished service medals like they did later in the program. In the initial parts of the programs, only the crews got it. A little later, only the wheels got it. By the end of the program, those things were being given out like stickers for the calendar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a very good method of putting it all together, I guess.\\n\\n Moving into Apollo then, and maybe we could talk some about you were involved with the subsystems on the command module and the crew stations. At what point did you become involved in this and how much of the design had already been settled on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 96.74128434478139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "LT-8, and we manned that on at least two different occasions, checking out various aspects of the procedures, suits and systems. Then at the same time, I had another group of people that were working experiments and a number of us were still flying simulations. So that was kind of a smorgasbord of activities that I was doing while I had that organization. That was the Operation Support Office under Warren [North]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been a unique challenge for you in a way to balance the engineering, which had been your training and your background with all this management, and to make the two mesh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never considered it a problem. A lot of people that worked for me, worked with me, some of them to this day would accuse me of micromanaging the organization because I looked into everything. But by the same token, what I told some of these people was that when I can see that you’re doing your job, you will no longer see me. But if you manage your job like you’re supposed to, then you won’t have to worry about me micromanaging your part of the organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly what happened. I said, “As long as I see problems with your organization, you’re going to see me looking over your shoulder. When I no longer see problems, you won’t see me.” That’s kind of the way I operated, although I had a very good knowledge of what was going on in all of these areas, mainly because I was interested. Some people do it from a management standpoint and never get their hands dirty. I was out there, I’d be walking through the organization at midnight.\\n\\n I’ve got a hard hat up there that they painted red, and it says “The Chief” on it. The reason why they had that hard hat painted red is because they were surprised so many times by me, unfortunately in many cases, that they gave me that hard hat. I would wear it so that they could see me coming from a distance. [Laughter] So I’ve kept that hard hat up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 47.44247290750405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you said here, Skylab, what other responsibilities? I think I’ve covered the number of things that I’ve done along the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, you covered Skylab pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you’ve got here, after Apollo XIV I became the chief of flight crew integration division. I think I’ve told you about it already the work in there and what the primary responsibilities were of these numbers of teams that I had and these people who did these various different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You covered that pretty well, I think. We talked about the Apollo Soyuz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You said how was it similar and how was it different, and I think we’ve covered all of those things.\\n\\n We worked, as I’ve talked about, on Skylab’s experiment integration package. I think we’ve already covered that and how I got involved in it. The main reason I got involved with it is because I will take credit for the fact that we did get the training transferred from Marshall to JSC, that 1G training. We already had the simulator training, but had I not pushed that all of that work would have been at Marshall and the roles and functions of the centers at this point in time might be different than they are now. That’s just conjecture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it would have changed a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.71385878611561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you’ve got here, after Apollo XIV I became the chief of flight crew integration division. I think I’ve told you about it already the work in there and what the primary responsibilities were of these numbers of teams that I had and these people who did these various different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You covered that pretty well, I think. We talked about the Apollo Soyuz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You said how was it similar and how was it different, and I think we’ve covered all of those things.\\n\\n We worked, as I’ve talked about, on Skylab’s experiment integration package. I think we’ve already covered that and how I got involved in it. The main reason I got involved with it is because I will take credit for the fact that we did get the training transferred from Marshall to JSC, that 1G training. We already had the simulator training, but had I not pushed that all of that work would have been at Marshall and the roles and functions of the centers at this point in time might be different than they are now. That’s just conjecture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it would have changed a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They certainly would have gotten a lot of experience. Of course, they did anyhow because Marshall put together the floors with that grid pattern. They put together the handrails. They put together the food lockers. Of course, JSC actually did the food. But they put together the sleeping activities, the trash dump, the water tanks, the storage lockers in the upper area, those sorts of things. They did the environmental system. They did the scrubbing system for the CO2."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The lithium hydroxide cleaner?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 33.69607075749968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it flew on a number of missions. In particular, this tail pod thing was this big bulbous thing on the end of the tail, so it flew on a half a dozen missions of that vehicle, because it wasn’t interchangeable with the other vehicles.\\n\\n Then about that time, Max was getting ready to retire and both his deputy and his assistant director for avionics, all of them were about ready to retire. I think Max was being encouraged by certain people to retire. So they selected two system division chiefs. One was Al [Allen J.] Louviere, who had six divisions that he was responsible for, and I had six divisions that I was responsible for. So they brought us onboard. This was about in ’79.\\n\\n That worked out quite well because Max and Alec [C.] Bond who was his deputy and Bob Gardnier who was his assistant director could go do their things in terms of planning and in terms of thinking of new technical ideas. You know Max is the one that basically invented Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, and Shuttle, the concepts, so he’s patented them. I don’t know if you’ve interviewed Max or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We sure have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you know that, or did he tell you that he had?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did. We talked about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a very interesting individual to talk to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he is."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00212:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 16.044383800000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s exactly what I said on my form, I think, that I had experienced a lot of things at NASA and that I was going to explore what new vistas lie out there ahead of me. So I legally, after the fact, and not saying how much before the fact illegally, I secured another job with private industry with a company in Austin, Texas, as a manager in a C3I [Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence] program.\\n\\n Do you know what C3I means?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked in that program for a year, which had a certain level of classification. After a little over a year, I moved into a higher classification program, black program. Do you know what that means?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spent a year at Sunnyvale, California. After that year I came back and on that program I was the program director for all engineering on that program. I came back to Austin and became a program manager on another black compartmented program and spent a number of years there. At that point in time, there was some move afoot, and sometimes I had spent TDY like six months at Burbank on some other black programs. Then they wanted to send me as program manager to Nassau, New Hampshire with another company for assignment for a year, and I didn’t want to move back there. So I took a quick retirement from that company and started consulting.\\n\\n For the next six years I consulted in the aerospace industry, working for Boeing, for Grumman, for NASA, for Lockheed, for McDonnell Douglas, in which I signed contracts of a defined period of time to deliver a defined set of products. When that was through, I was free to go do more work for them if they wanted more work or go take a siesta or go on to another company’s work.\\n\\n To be very truthful, a lot of these jobs I took so that I could do genealogy on the weekends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a good reason."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 37.90958036293692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we can cross-reference that. But I thought, well, since we started talking about the Archives—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—can you talk a little bit about how you ended up at the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] I ended up in the Archives out of despair. [Laughter]. I had gotten out of the Navy in the beginning of March of 1996, and I had been the information systems officer for Naval District Washington in the Navy Yard. And I thought that was my future, I was going to be doing IT work. Was not really looking forward to that, because I was not really into IT work, but since that was the most recent job experience. So I started throwing job applications out—federal job applications—I knew I wanted to be a Fed. So I started throwing job applications out, and as spring stretched into summer, it—I ran into more and more difficulties. I threw out over 60 job applications. And—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] And this was in ’96?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.593105704081268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if there’s any way that’s going to raise a red flag, is that. And so what was found out is that—and this is a story that appeared in the New York Times, that there were secret memoranda between CIA, Air Force, and NARA that allowed their people to go into the open stacks and pull stuff that had been available to the public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were there slips?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. There were no slips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was nothing. It was just—the records were just not available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just not there."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 21.770117448979185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. There were no slips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was nothing. It was just—the records were just not available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just not there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not available. So there was a little fallout from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.019230984574278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about the successes of that program, and maybe some of the challenges that NDC has faced in these last, I guess, nine years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s almost been 10 years. Is that hard to believe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, President Obama set the deadline to eliminate the backlog by the end of 2013, and we met that. We went ahead and you kept chopping and dicing. I mean, you just keep doing it. We would have murder boards where we would actually take a look at our processes, and if people saw that there were issues, they could bring it up to the senior leadership and say hey, this ain’t working, how about that? We were trying to encourage a lot of critical thinking, that just because we proclaimed it this way doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. And so we were able to get a lot of teamwork out of what was going on, and that allowed us to declare victory at the end of 2013. And so after that, it was more a question of sustainment, where what I mentioned before, we were able to get reviewed accessions in the building and were able to start the NDC process the year following the accessioning. And so that has allowed us to avoid buildup of the backlog. Now that we’re in danger of that again because of the Presidential Libraries business, with all the classified records coming into the Presidential Library, classified coming here. And so that’s going to cause a bit of a—we’re trying to figure that one out still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all those records will come to College Park?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.688034427304753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s almost been 10 years. Is that hard to believe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, President Obama set the deadline to eliminate the backlog by the end of 2013, and we met that. We went ahead and you kept chopping and dicing. I mean, you just keep doing it. We would have murder boards where we would actually take a look at our processes, and if people saw that there were issues, they could bring it up to the senior leadership and say hey, this ain’t working, how about that? We were trying to encourage a lot of critical thinking, that just because we proclaimed it this way doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. And so we were able to get a lot of teamwork out of what was going on, and that allowed us to declare victory at the end of 2013. And so after that, it was more a question of sustainment, where what I mentioned before, we were able to get reviewed accessions in the building and were able to start the NDC process the year following the accessioning. And so that has allowed us to avoid buildup of the backlog. Now that we’re in danger of that again because of the Presidential Libraries business, with all the classified records coming into the Presidential Library, classified coming here. And so that’s going to cause a bit of a—we’re trying to figure that one out still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all those records will come to College Park?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the classified ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when is that scheduled? [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.986704919227503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, President Obama set the deadline to eliminate the backlog by the end of 2013, and we met that. We went ahead and you kept chopping and dicing. I mean, you just keep doing it. We would have murder boards where we would actually take a look at our processes, and if people saw that there were issues, they could bring it up to the senior leadership and say hey, this ain’t working, how about that? We were trying to encourage a lot of critical thinking, that just because we proclaimed it this way doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. And so we were able to get a lot of teamwork out of what was going on, and that allowed us to declare victory at the end of 2013. And so after that, it was more a question of sustainment, where what I mentioned before, we were able to get reviewed accessions in the building and were able to start the NDC process the year following the accessioning. And so that has allowed us to avoid buildup of the backlog. Now that we’re in danger of that again because of the Presidential Libraries business, with all the classified records coming into the Presidential Library, classified coming here. And so that’s going to cause a bit of a—we’re trying to figure that one out still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all those records will come to College Park?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the classified ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when is that scheduled? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re asking the wrong person. I—probably later this calendar year and into next year. And that’s just going to be a long and painful process, mainly because you’re dealing with the differences between presidential and federal. And as agency historian, you are no doubt aware of the tensions that have gone on over the years between the Presidential Libraries and the Federal Records side, because we went through those years where we’re the only important records there are, so the resources should come our way kind of thing. And this is not the solution that anybody envisioned. It’s just kind of complete capitulation, but—and those people aren’t coming with the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.429672132475003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the classified ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And when is that scheduled? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re asking the wrong person. I—probably later this calendar year and into next year. And that’s just going to be a long and painful process, mainly because you’re dealing with the differences between presidential and federal. And as agency historian, you are no doubt aware of the tensions that have gone on over the years between the Presidential Libraries and the Federal Records side, because we went through those years where we’re the only important records there are, so the resources should come our way kind of thing. And this is not the solution that anybody envisioned. It’s just kind of complete capitulation, but—and those people aren’t coming with the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] [crosstalk]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—so no additional staff? And they’re—that will certainly be a challenge."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.032969036083337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re asking the wrong person. I—probably later this calendar year and into next year. And that’s just going to be a long and painful process, mainly because you’re dealing with the differences between presidential and federal. And as agency historian, you are no doubt aware of the tensions that have gone on over the years between the Presidential Libraries and the Federal Records side, because we went through those years where we’re the only important records there are, so the resources should come our way kind of thing. And this is not the solution that anybody envisioned. It’s just kind of complete capitulation, but—and those people aren’t coming with the records."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] [crosstalk]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—so no additional staff? And they’re—that will certainly be a challenge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any idea how much the volume—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.421600759033424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] It’s—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "— is it just rapport? It’s..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. You have to sit there and—what I thought was successful for me is just getting some mutual respect. Part of the issue we have with some of the agencies is, as they are creators of this classified information, they think they are the only ones who know its value and know its sensitivity. And what I’ve had to demonstrate repeatedly, and thanks to—thanks to my dear bride and my library, has been able to go back and co-op them and say I know that this is important. And what about this? And you start throwing some facts at them and you start getting into a dialogue about their program, their system, their history. And once you can get it on that basis, you know, now you’re on a level playing field. And now you have some mutual respect that they see your point, and if they can do something about it, they will. But it’s gaining that respect, and that was the—an important thing for me was I’m not just an archivist at the National Archives. I get what you do. I get what this did or what that event meant, but here we are 56 years later. Does it seem to have the same sensitivity? And pick up something from the internet or just use whatever I can use in a bag of tricks to get them to just say well, maybe you have a point, you know? Or something like that. Does it result in a document being declassified? I don’t know. What it does do is enhance the respect that we have for each other, and allows dialogues in other directions that may pay off better. So that’s what I found important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, not sure there is a typical day, but—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] [laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—is there a typical day in..."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.40965667684641, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it certainly applies. It’s just that the stuff’s going to get put into some sort of buffer, some sort of storage and just stay there. Or it stays with the agency and takes its chances when media migration concerns—you know, I just—I know there’s been discussions at higher levels that the director and deputy director—David Mengel, I know has been involved with these discussions. But they just haven’t amounted to anything that we can point to a calendar and say by this time, we’re going to have a system to ingest and do something with, because there’s no underlying anything to do review of the—no automated review."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have been able to use ADRRES in weird ways, because we can actually load movies and sound into ADDRES and treat it similar to textual records, so that you can listen to an audio file in that classified environment and actually make decisions on that. But it’s only in those cases of special media, not in general electronic records format. So that’s what we’re stuck with right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] It is. I agree, and it’s going to require a totally different field and some of the young’uns are getting into that. And that’s—we’ve got some digitization folks who are—who—we just don’t have the tools in place to actually do the work we can do now with textual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, how did you get involved with the blog?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.022848665084236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] I enjoy writing and I—it was just a way to highlight things that we would release and, you know, we’ve developed a small—there’s 120 followers now. And that’s up a couple dozen from when I started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it’s just—we run into the most unique things. And being able to share that stuff is—and I enjoy doing the research and I just love sharing what we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it’s just a natural extension of the other things I was doing, and what—nobody else in NDC wanted to write, so I threw my hat in the ring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any interesting finds that you could share? Memorable, I guess?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.219899854500905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s going through these decks—it’s dealing with these deck logs, the classified deck logs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a class of four ships that the Navy didn’t have much else use for. They weren’t successful at what the Navy has built them for. So the Navy found something for them to do. 300 foot-long, it was 175 guys on them. And so they would go out, be based out of Pearl Harbor, and they would rotate between Pearl Harbor, Midway Island, and Johnston Island. And of the three, Pearl Harbor was the best that they were going to come up with, because Midway was a fly-speck of an island, just like Johnston Island. And their job in between those little trips, they would hang out in the North Pacific and Central Pacific. And they would actually wait for a Soviet intercontinental ballistic missile test, and they would actually get warning of a launch of a Soviet ICBM. And their job was to catch the debris from the reentry vehicle when the thing came down, and they were close enough to hear the sonic booms of the reentry vehicle—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—which would have been the sound of Armageddon, had they actually had warheads on them. But they would—and they would triangulate—being in the proximity, they would triangulate where the thing went down and they would steam rapidly over to where that location was to see if there was anything in the water to pick up of intelligence value. And so nobody knows that. You’re the first—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] That’s so interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.604495803863278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my poor wife is the one who’s going to have to deal with it in the future, so..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I know we’ve been—we’re about an hour and a half now—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—which I—this is fine. I just—I know you probably need to go—I know you wanted to go to the gift shop, but I just have a couple more questions—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] [laughter] No, no. That’s all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and then we’ll wrap up."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.338328670959198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—which I—this is fine. I just—I know you probably need to go—I know you wanted to go to the gift shop, but I just have a couple more questions—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] [laughter] No, no. That’s all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and then we’ll wrap up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s your job to focus this discussion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. No, it’s been very helpful. So I was just curious to see, how do you view your time here at the Archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.153698523287998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] [laughter] No, no. That’s all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—and then we’ll wrap up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s your job to focus this discussion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. No, it’s been very helpful. So I was just curious to see, how do you view your time here at the Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This has been such a neat experience, because I—my Navy experience was not the best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I read your oral history."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.055781928498702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so she just said okay, you’re just going to do the SME business. And business has been booming ever since. And they found another manager. M’Lisa Whitney—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—had—has my job—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and so she and I have regular conversations, even to this day, about how to work things and stuff like that. So it’s—that mentorship piece has really been helpful. And—which kind of leads me to—NARA has tried over the years any number of mentoring and it’s really not taken off, mainly because you can’t really regulate a mentoring process. That’s a natural thing. A natural chemistry thing between two people, and it either happens or it doesn’t. I was first exposed to the forced stuff in CIDS where I was paired with an archivist of some seniority, and it just didn’t work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The relationship wasn’t there?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.950868809443001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—had—has my job—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and so she and I have regular conversations, even to this day, about how to work things and stuff like that. So it’s—that mentorship piece has really been helpful. And—which kind of leads me to—NARA has tried over the years any number of mentoring and it’s really not taken off, mainly because you can’t really regulate a mentoring process. That’s a natural thing. A natural chemistry thing between two people, and it either happens or it doesn’t. I was first exposed to the forced stuff in CIDS where I was paired with an archivist of some seniority, and it just didn’t work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The relationship wasn’t there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just wasn’t there. And so, you know, you have to build that relationship over a period of time. And one has to be willing to share and the other one’s got to be willing to listen, and you just can’t force—I mean, at some points, you had enforced reporting in the mentoring environment where people had to submit weekly reports and stuff like that. Saying—oh my God, no. No. The Navy does it quite informally. You—they just call it the Sea Daddy. You would have a Sea Daddy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Sea Daddy. [Laughter]."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.945409788270002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and so she and I have regular conversations, even to this day, about how to work things and stuff like that. So it’s—that mentorship piece has really been helpful. And—which kind of leads me to—NARA has tried over the years any number of mentoring and it’s really not taken off, mainly because you can’t really regulate a mentoring process. That’s a natural thing. A natural chemistry thing between two people, and it either happens or it doesn’t. I was first exposed to the forced stuff in CIDS where I was paired with an archivist of some seniority, and it just didn’t work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The relationship wasn’t there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just wasn’t there. And so, you know, you have to build that relationship over a period of time. And one has to be willing to share and the other one’s got to be willing to listen, and you just can’t force—I mean, at some points, you had enforced reporting in the mentoring environment where people had to submit weekly reports and stuff like that. Saying—oh my God, no. No. The Navy does it quite informally. You—they just call it the Sea Daddy. You would have a Sea Daddy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Sea Daddy. [Laughter]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—one of the reasons why my career didn’t work well was I didn’t have a Sea Daddy. My wife had a Sea Daddy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Oh, okay."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.056061467000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—one of the reasons why my career didn’t work well was I didn’t have a Sea Daddy. My wife had a Sea Daddy—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and was of some benefit to her—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and she maintains some of the—she still maintains some of those relationships. It just didn’t happen for me, but that’s the Darwinism that goes in a selection process. And as a Navy officer, it’s up or out. So, Darwin, here you are. If you don’t get selected, you’re out. You’re no longer a naval officer. And the same thing, just generally this should apply all the way around. You just can’t force people into mentoring relationships. And I don’t know what the state is—I volunteered when it was a voluntary program a couple of years ago—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Mm-hm. I remember that."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.4148907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and she maintains some of the—she still maintains some of those relationships. It just didn’t happen for me, but that’s the Darwinism that goes in a selection process. And as a Navy officer, it’s up or out. So, Darwin, here you are. If you don’t get selected, you’re out. You’re no longer a naval officer. And the same thing, just generally this should apply all the way around. You just can’t force people into mentoring relationships. And I don’t know what the state is—I volunteered when it was a voluntary program a couple of years ago—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Mm-hm. I remember that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and, you know, I just never got picked. I was available, just wasn’t picked, mainly because I was an unknown in that awkward sixth floor up over College Park—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and nobody wanted anything to do with that. So when people voluntarily get into those relationships, I’m all into that. And so—and I finally have the discipline to regulate how long I take of people’s time, how much time I take— so that the mentoring is not a punishment; it’s something someone would look forward to and maybe want to repeat. So that’s something that I would miss, and I’m trying to see how else I can do that on the other side, like with a museum or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, I think I could talk to you all day, but I’m wondering if there’s anything else you’d like to add that we didn’t cover. Any antidotes or words of wisdom or anything that we missed?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so nobody really knows what the ships looked like, and there’s still arguments—were they blue? Were they gray? But one thing I found that categorically establishes a color was a memo that the Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific Fleet at the time, a guy by the name of Husband Kimmel, put a memo out in March of 1941 that mandate that the turret tops of the battleships were going to appear in a certain way with these colors, depending on what organization they belonged to. And for the Arizona, that meant that the front two turrets— it has four. So the front two turrets were colored red on top and the third one—or the fourth one, would be colored red as well. And that was to allow the ship to be seen from very far away, because that’s how the guns were being aimed. You needed to be up high in an airplane over the enemy, and you needed to be able to see 20 miles away at your ship to see if it’s firing. That’s how you corrected the fire. And you had to be able to positively—to identify it, and they did that through the use of turret top colors. And so, the Arizona now has three red turret tops. I needed to share because you can Google Arizona models, so when somebody wants to build one, and since I am a modeler—but I’m not well known for the models I build—but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—yeah, I will have more time. But now, those exist. And so...we’re...yeah. See, this is the instructions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the instructions on a model kit that’s telling people to paint it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To paint it red. That’s..."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—yeah, I will have more time. But now, those exist. And so...we’re...yeah. See, this is the instructions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the instructions on a model kit that’s telling people to paint it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To paint it red. That’s..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] And you found this—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the instructions on a model kit that’s telling people to paint it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To paint it red. That’s..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So if—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] And you found this—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—a modeler has to be famous—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] That’s you."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—a modeler has to be famous—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] That’s you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and—well, it doesn’t have to be. I—a lot of people don’t know me. I shared it with a modeler who actually built the big one. It’s a 196th scale, so it’s like six feet long or something like that. So we’re in Pearl Harbor at the visitor’s center for Ford Island, and he built this. And I shared with him that piece of paper and asked, have you ever seen anything like this before? And his eyes just popped, and no, he had not seen anything like that before. And that’s a claim to fame. I will—I’m happy about that one. I kept it low-key because you don’t want that modeling community to be calling on you on a regular basis, because they—can you look this up for me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all of a sudden—no. I didn’t want to do that, but I—for this purpose, I want to go ahead and get that down on bits or whatever—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Record it forever."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all of a sudden—no. I didn’t want to do that, but I—for this purpose, I want to go ahead and get that down on bits or whatever—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Interposing] Record it forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—it is. [Laughter]. But, I mean, that—it’s just neat stuff like that that really—it makes working at this place so neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even though you can go through some rough spots and have bad days, just like you can have bad days anywhere it’s when these gems occur and you can do that, that’s what I love about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, thank you and congratulations again on your retirement."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—it is. [Laughter]. But, I mean, that—it’s just neat stuff like that that really—it makes working at this place so neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even though you can go through some rough spots and have bad days, just like you can have bad days anywhere it’s when these gems occur and you can do that, that’s what I love about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, thank you and congratulations again on your retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope your phased retirement—"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00013:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And even though you can go through some rough spots and have bad days, just like you can have bad days anywhere it’s when these gems occur and you can do that, that’s what I love about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, thank you and congratulations again on your retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope your phased retirement—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Interposing] Yeah, well..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—works out for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.16951281475794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was kind of exciting. I thought it was exciting, and I was majoring undergraduate in what was a heat power option at Case. When I graduated, it was Case Institute of Technology [Cleveland, Ohio]. When I started, it was Case School of Applied Science. My education was interrupted in World War II. I was away for three years in the Army. Interestingly, I ended up with a technical group that was attached to the Ballistic Research Lab [laboratory] at Aberdeen Proving Ground [Maryland], so I had a good experience in the Army in research in this group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the war, obviously, the situation with the United States globally and the Cold War beginning between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, was there a feeling when you first began working full-time again—well, during the summers and then when you started working full-time—a feeling of needing to catch up with what Germany had done during the war and trying to push that forward in the United States, that research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had one very famous German come to Cleveland, Ernst R. G. Eckert. He was a heat transfer expert and eventually went back to teaching and became professor at [the University of] Minnesota [Minneapolis, Minnesota]. I think he’s still living, as far as I know, and he may be. He must be ninety-five or something like that. So, yes. And, of course, we wanted to make sure that people realized, also, that liquid engine rocketry was pioneered by Dr. [Robert H.] Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as the community around Lewis, what was the perception of what was going on at NACA? Did they have any idea of the type of work that you were doing there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. That’s been one of the problems that we’ve had. This is why we had the Speakers Bureau."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they weren’t aware of what you were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.41056979417549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We had one very famous German come to Cleveland, Ernst R. G. Eckert. He was a heat transfer expert and eventually went back to teaching and became professor at [the University of] Minnesota [Minneapolis, Minnesota]. I think he’s still living, as far as I know, and he may be. He must be ninety-five or something like that. So, yes. And, of course, we wanted to make sure that people realized, also, that liquid engine rocketry was pioneered by Dr. [Robert H.] Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as the community around Lewis, what was the perception of what was going on at NACA? Did they have any idea of the type of work that you were doing there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. That’s been one of the problems that we’ve had. This is why we had the Speakers Bureau."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they weren’t aware of what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Cleveland, the Cleveland Laboratory hasn’t had, I think, the press that some of the others have had, or, I think the political backing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started there, it was around 1948, is that correct, the summers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.900633104639432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. That’s been one of the problems that we’ve had. This is why we had the Speakers Bureau."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they weren’t aware of what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Cleveland, the Cleveland Laboratory hasn’t had, I think, the press that some of the others have had, or, I think the political backing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started there, it was around 1948, is that correct, the summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you began working there full-time after that. Can you describe the facilities and what it was like when you first started working there, as far as the buildings and what you had to work with and the areas you worked in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.222925671821592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Cleveland, the Cleveland Laboratory hasn’t had, I think, the press that some of the others have had, or, I think the political backing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started there, it was around 1948, is that correct, the summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you began working there full-time after that. Can you describe the facilities and what it was like when you first started working there, as far as the buildings and what you had to work with and the areas you worked in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the test procedure was vastly different than we do today. Everything is electronic today, as far as receiving and operating on data. In those days we had walls of manometer tubes, for instance, with my compressor readings. They had walls of manometer tubes, some of them were mercury, some of them tetrabromide; probably fluids that we couldn’t use today. But anyway, the way of taking a data shot was to take a photograph of these tubes, so we would get pressures where we had instrumentation, and then we had computers, which were women, who would read these tubes. They were given calculational procedures on how to process that data and give us information back.\\n\\n So you’d run a test maybe for several hours, and you’d have these films, big camera with big sheets, big pieces of film that were used to photograph these things. Then these women had the tedious job of, with the magnifiers, reading the data and then transferring it to calculators, which at that time were Monroe calculators, mechanical devices. So we didn’t know how a test ran maybe till a week or two weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the women, with the computers, as an engineer?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 25.803250746468436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you began working there full-time after that. Can you describe the facilities and what it was like when you first started working there, as far as the buildings and what you had to work with and the areas you worked in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the test procedure was vastly different than we do today. Everything is electronic today, as far as receiving and operating on data. In those days we had walls of manometer tubes, for instance, with my compressor readings. They had walls of manometer tubes, some of them were mercury, some of them tetrabromide; probably fluids that we couldn’t use today. But anyway, the way of taking a data shot was to take a photograph of these tubes, so we would get pressures where we had instrumentation, and then we had computers, which were women, who would read these tubes. They were given calculational procedures on how to process that data and give us information back.\\n\\n So you’d run a test maybe for several hours, and you’d have these films, big camera with big sheets, big pieces of film that were used to photograph these things. Then these women had the tedious job of, with the magnifiers, reading the data and then transferring it to calculators, which at that time were Monroe calculators, mechanical devices. So we didn’t know how a test ran maybe till a week or two weeks later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How closely did you work with the women, with the computers, as an engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite closely. One of the first ladies I had became the first Division Chief at Lewis, woman Division Chief. She was in charge of computing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her name?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.951042065757886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the tests that I’d run were a pretty small prototype. The control room wouldn’t be maybe quite as big as this room, and then we’d have the test facility over in the—and maybe a bullet-proof window to look in, and the cameras and so forth. The manometer tubes would be in the operation room, and the camera, so we’d click the pictures as we went from test point to test point. But the major facilities, they were very careful to build mufflers, because some people in the community objected to the noise. But the major wind tunnels had mufflers at Lewis; still do. And, of course, they ran at night because of electrical power demand. That’s when the industry was off-line, like the ten-by-ten supersonic tunnel and the eight-by-six supersonic tunnel in that facility. But when it came to hydrogen, I had to run that at night, and the area was roped off. We just ejected the hydrogen into the air after it would pass through the test section. We had a stack, we called it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned NACA inspections and the one in 1957. How often did those inspections take place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess they were yearly, but they were passed around, so the three Centers, it was every three years that you got the assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was normally involved during that inspection? Was it the entire Lab? Were you all involved in presenting what was being done at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a good piece of the Lab. It did take quite a manpower effort. It was given a very high priority because congressional people, representatives of industry came. It was a public exposure of what was going on in these Centers, the three major NACA Centers. So, yes, it was a big project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In November of 1957 I read that you took part in the NACA Flight Propulsion Conference that was being held at Lewis, and you were one of the presenters on “Propulsion Requirements for Earth Satellites,” and with some suggestions for the possibility of landing on the Moon at that time. Can you talk about that for a minute?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.222743584450363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess when I probably joined the Rocket Branch in the mid-fifties to [19]’60, just before Sputnik."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that seem far-fetched at that time to you—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—or was that something that you felt that was achievable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it was exciting, and of course, we had done enough simple calculations to indicate what rockets could do in terms of getting up into orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you came there—you were still relatively young, in your twenties at that time, and I know a lot of the people that worked there, and it was an academic-type setting, that there were a lot of young people there. Were there a lot of social activities that you took part in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.136381760500402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—or was that something that you felt that was achievable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it was exciting, and of course, we had done enough simple calculations to indicate what rockets could do in terms of getting up into orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you came there—you were still relatively young, in your twenties at that time, and I know a lot of the people that worked there, and it was an academic-type setting, that there were a lot of young people there. Were there a lot of social activities that you took part in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was a family. We were very self-contained as a Center. Everything was done there, machine shop, model shop, instrumentation. If you had any kind of a problem, whether it was aeronautical or whether it was at home, you could find somebody that could help you. It was a marvelous source of information. I built my own house, and I had electrical help from the electricians at the Lab. I did the finishing, putting receptacles and things like that in, but to make the major circuits and patch into the power grid, I had a fellow come over on the weekends and did the wiring. And it was like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join the Speakers Bureau then, or was that something you did later?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.151535289444892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I thought it was exciting, and of course, we had done enough simple calculations to indicate what rockets could do in terms of getting up into orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you came there—you were still relatively young, in your twenties at that time, and I know a lot of the people that worked there, and it was an academic-type setting, that there were a lot of young people there. Were there a lot of social activities that you took part in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was a family. We were very self-contained as a Center. Everything was done there, machine shop, model shop, instrumentation. If you had any kind of a problem, whether it was aeronautical or whether it was at home, you could find somebody that could help you. It was a marvelous source of information. I built my own house, and I had electrical help from the electricians at the Lab. I did the finishing, putting receptacles and things like that in, but to make the major circuits and patch into the power grid, I had a fellow come over on the weekends and did the wiring. And it was like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join the Speakers Bureau then, or was that something you did later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t called the Speakers Bureau when I joined it. When I quit, I think I was probably one of the first that did that, and I think my first speech was in [19]’55."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given the information to give to the public, or were you allowed to come up—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.279483654938769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was a family. We were very self-contained as a Center. Everything was done there, machine shop, model shop, instrumentation. If you had any kind of a problem, whether it was aeronautical or whether it was at home, you could find somebody that could help you. It was a marvelous source of information. I built my own house, and I had electrical help from the electricians at the Lab. I did the finishing, putting receptacles and things like that in, but to make the major circuits and patch into the power grid, I had a fellow come over on the weekends and did the wiring. And it was like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you join the Speakers Bureau then, or was that something you did later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t called the Speakers Bureau when I joined it. When I quit, I think I was probably one of the first that did that, and I think my first speech was in [19]’55."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given the information to give to the public, or were you allowed to come up—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you generated your own talks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a big interest from the public?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.532759616598632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t called the Speakers Bureau when I joined it. When I quit, I think I was probably one of the first that did that, and I think my first speech was in [19]’55."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you given the information to give to the public, or were you allowed to come up—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you generated your own talks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a big interest from the public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had some wonderful experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of groups did you talk to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.814177351776257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you generated your own talks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a big interest from the public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had some wonderful experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of groups did you talk to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, all kinds of people, professionals and insurance people, you name it, and, of course, a lot of Kiwanis and clubs like that, church people, church organizations, civic groups. It was an interesting activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice the interest pick up after Sputnik as opposed to before Sputnik, as far as the public was concerned, in what was happening?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.126863724195841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I had some wonderful experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of groups did you talk to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, all kinds of people, professionals and insurance people, you name it, and, of course, a lot of Kiwanis and clubs like that, church people, church organizations, civic groups. It was an interesting activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice the interest pick up after Sputnik as opposed to before Sputnik, as far as the public was concerned, in what was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think generally that happened, yes. I think my first talk was actually not in Cleveland. It was in Fort Wayne [Indiana]. I was asked to go to a group in Fort Wayne to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to look back over your years when it was still the NACA, what do you think your most significant contribution during that time period would have been?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.58540413799538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, all kinds of people, professionals and insurance people, you name it, and, of course, a lot of Kiwanis and clubs like that, church people, church organizations, civic groups. It was an interesting activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice the interest pick up after Sputnik as opposed to before Sputnik, as far as the public was concerned, in what was happening?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think generally that happened, yes. I think my first talk was actually not in Cleveland. It was in Fort Wayne [Indiana]. I was asked to go to a group in Fort Wayne to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to look back over your years when it was still the NACA, what do you think your most significant contribution during that time period would have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when I managed to get consent from management to explore liquid hydrogen as a coolant, and I think my reputation as a researcher, which had international recognition, was based pretty much on that and the general topic of heat transfer, basic heat transfer. Lewis had one of the outstanding groups in heat transfer in the world, and I was privileged to have one of the groups in that. So it wasn’t the only heat transfer section, but outstanding people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a difficult process, getting that approval?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.094893486661531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think generally that happened, yes. I think my first talk was actually not in Cleveland. It was in Fort Wayne [Indiana]. I was asked to go to a group in Fort Wayne to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to look back over your years when it was still the NACA, what do you think your most significant contribution during that time period would have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when I managed to get consent from management to explore liquid hydrogen as a coolant, and I think my reputation as a researcher, which had international recognition, was based pretty much on that and the general topic of heat transfer, basic heat transfer. Lewis had one of the outstanding groups in heat transfer in the world, and I was privileged to have one of the groups in that. So it wasn’t the only heat transfer section, but outstanding people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a difficult process, getting that approval?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to fight for it, but, actually, I got support primarily from my Division Chief. He said, “Go ahead.” I had no problems of going ahead with it after that at all. I was fortunate to get a few people to work on it. I worked with them, people that I supervised. I had one man who was outstanding. He’s still at Lewis. He was a dynamo, so he was really the project leader, eventually, in the experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.660992762957257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think when I managed to get consent from management to explore liquid hydrogen as a coolant, and I think my reputation as a researcher, which had international recognition, was based pretty much on that and the general topic of heat transfer, basic heat transfer. Lewis had one of the outstanding groups in heat transfer in the world, and I was privileged to have one of the groups in that. So it wasn’t the only heat transfer section, but outstanding people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a difficult process, getting that approval?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to fight for it, but, actually, I got support primarily from my Division Chief. He said, “Go ahead.” I had no problems of going ahead with it after that at all. I was fortunate to get a few people to work on it. I worked with them, people that I supervised. I had one man who was outstanding. He’s still at Lewis. He was a dynamo, so he was really the project leader, eventually, in the experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Robert Hendricks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with George [M.] Low when he was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.067769736619175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to fight for it, but, actually, I got support primarily from my Division Chief. He said, “Go ahead.” I had no problems of going ahead with it after that at all. I was fortunate to get a few people to work on it. I worked with them, people that I supervised. I had one man who was outstanding. He’s still at Lewis. He was a dynamo, so he was really the project leader, eventually, in the experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Robert Hendricks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with George [M.] Low when he was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. In fact, on that rocket tunnel that I mentioned, I worked with George Low and some of his people on that. In fact, he loaned me one of his designers to help in designing that rig—the operational sell—Robert [R.] Godman. He died, I think, last year. George Low was a remarkable guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to look back and talk about your greatest challenge during that time, would it be something different than getting that approval?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.57166550315375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lots of cooperation. People trusted one another. There wasn’t somebody trying to get ahead. I felt like we were a team. That was the family nature of the Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After 1958 when the change as far as NACA turning into NASA, was there any major change in your duties or what you were assigned to at that time, or did you just continue on working in the same section?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After [19]’58, yes, my section grew. I had at one time fourteen, fifteen people, and then I’d have summer faculty come in and work with us, and summer students. So I had a big group to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice any other changes in the Center? Besides increasing in size, did you notice anything in the change—as you said, it was a family. People interacted. There was a lot of cooperation. Did that hold true once it transferred to NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that worked for a while, but then it began, I think after the success in the Moon, that sort of went away, and then there was the contracting business that you did outside work rather than—the Center wasn’t as self-dependent as it was before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during that time, I know you mentioned, of course, Neil Armstrong worked there for a while, and that was before he was well known, but I know that people would visit the Centers or the Labs at that time, famous people, politicians. Do you remember any incidents or any visitors coming to Lewis, or anything surrounding that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.412961670170834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After [19]’58, yes, my section grew. I had at one time fourteen, fifteen people, and then I’d have summer faculty come in and work with us, and summer students. So I had a big group to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice any other changes in the Center? Besides increasing in size, did you notice anything in the change—as you said, it was a family. People interacted. There was a lot of cooperation. Did that hold true once it transferred to NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that worked for a while, but then it began, I think after the success in the Moon, that sort of went away, and then there was the contracting business that you did outside work rather than—the Center wasn’t as self-dependent as it was before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during that time, I know you mentioned, of course, Neil Armstrong worked there for a while, and that was before he was well known, but I know that people would visit the Centers or the Labs at that time, famous people, politicians. Do you remember any incidents or any visitors coming to Lewis, or anything surrounding that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember when people were there, and I’ve seen these people occasionally around the Laboratory and have met some of them. Like I mentioned, James Doolittle, of course, had a history with NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyone else come to mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.236624077967594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that worked for a while, but then it began, I think after the success in the Moon, that sort of went away, and then there was the contracting business that you did outside work rather than—the Center wasn’t as self-dependent as it was before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, during that time, I know you mentioned, of course, Neil Armstrong worked there for a while, and that was before he was well known, but I know that people would visit the Centers or the Labs at that time, famous people, politicians. Do you remember any incidents or any visitors coming to Lewis, or anything surrounding that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember when people were there, and I’ve seen these people occasionally around the Laboratory and have met some of them. Like I mentioned, James Doolittle, of course, had a history with NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyone else come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a number of people in my area of heat transfer expertise. I had international visitors, some of them world-renowned. [Ralf] Schmidt, actually one of the great people and recognized all over the world for his heat transfer. And Eckert coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned Abe Silverstein, and I know he was instrumental in bringing the Centaur Program to Lewis to, I guess, debug, if you will, the program when it was having problems. Did you participate in that program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.040693419963993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember when people were there, and I’ve seen these people occasionally around the Laboratory and have met some of them. Like I mentioned, James Doolittle, of course, had a history with NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anyone else come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a number of people in my area of heat transfer expertise. I had international visitors, some of them world-renowned. [Ralf] Schmidt, actually one of the great people and recognized all over the world for his heat transfer. And Eckert coming back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned Abe Silverstein, and I know he was instrumental in bringing the Centaur Program to Lewis to, I guess, debug, if you will, the program when it was having problems. Did you participate in that program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t part of the Centaur Group, no, but I feel like my connection to the RL-10 was significant. So I guess the change was when we became more project-minded rather than research-minded. I stayed pretty much with the groups that were on the research side of the house. Development became a bigger thing in the Laboratory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed more on the research—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.818232729435614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The motivation was great, really great, and general morale was very, very high. People would go out of their way to work and help others, even, in their programs. It was a golden era. But, unfortunately, once the accomplishment was made and then where to go next wasn’t clarified, I think that’s where NASA has had some of its problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, the goal was achieved. Then in [19]’72, [19]’73, when things started winding down and there were RIFs [reductions in force] across NASA, and I know they affected Lewis, how did that affect your work at that time, or did it affect that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to let go of, I think, just one person, but I felt sorry I had to do that. That’s hard. That’s one of the hardest things a manager has to do, because the fellow was doing okay, and it’s just too bad that I had to—I was told I had to choose who, and who did I want to let go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know if he went on to the private sector, or was he moved into another position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the morale like at Lewis during that time period, as compared to just a few years before when it was so high?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.131369699372904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had to let go of, I think, just one person, but I felt sorry I had to do that. That’s hard. That’s one of the hardest things a manager has to do, because the fellow was doing okay, and it’s just too bad that I had to—I was told I had to choose who, and who did I want to let go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know if he went on to the private sector, or was he moved into another position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the morale like at Lewis during that time period, as compared to just a few years before when it was so high?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when you start talking about firing, you know, that doesn’t help. Then people begin to guard themselves, you know, people and organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the social atmosphere still there as it was in the early days?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.211567530090004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when you start talking about firing, you know, that doesn’t help. Then people begin to guard themselves, you know, people and organizations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the social atmosphere still there as it was in the early days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were still a part of that Speakers Bureau at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.901741700100004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were still a part of that Speakers Bureau at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was in the Speakers Bureau up until—even when I was a contractor. I think I probably left about late maybe 1998 or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories or any involvement with the Plum Brook [Sandusky, Ohio] facility?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 17.668601889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were still a part of that Speakers Bureau at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was in the Speakers Bureau up until—even when I was a contractor. I think I probably left about late maybe 1998 or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories or any involvement with the Plum Brook [Sandusky, Ohio] facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this connection was when I had the Technology Assessment, I had some acquaintances out there, and made a few visits, but I hadn’t had any close. There was one tunnel that we were interested in, a supersonic tunnel, that, I guess, eventually it ended up out there, and we were interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your achievements during the NACA time. Is there anything during that NASA time that you’d like to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.965113210000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I was in the Speakers Bureau up until—even when I was a contractor. I think I probably left about late maybe 1998 or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories or any involvement with the Plum Brook [Sandusky, Ohio] facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this connection was when I had the Technology Assessment, I had some acquaintances out there, and made a few visits, but I hadn’t had any close. There was one tunnel that we were interested in, a supersonic tunnel, that, I guess, eventually it ended up out there, and we were interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your achievements during the NACA time. Is there anything during that NASA time that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we still carried on a basic research program in heat transfer, and even though the hydrogen sort of tapered off eventually, but one of my colleagues and I wrote a book on boiling and near-critical heat transfer, and published that in the seventies. So we sort of documented some of the work that was done. This fellow was Chinese, Taiwanese, and he was doing—when I heard about him, when we were entering some of this boiling research, I heard about him through some of my connections. I was active in technical societies, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. He was doing postdoctoral work. Even though he wasn’t a citizen at that time, we managed to get him on board, and Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden approved his coming. So Y. Y. Hsu and I wrote this book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any other technical societies or professional societies?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.961236900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this connection was when I had the Technology Assessment, I had some acquaintances out there, and made a few visits, but I hadn’t had any close. There was one tunnel that we were interested in, a supersonic tunnel, that, I guess, eventually it ended up out there, and we were interested in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your achievements during the NACA time. Is there anything during that NASA time that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we still carried on a basic research program in heat transfer, and even though the hydrogen sort of tapered off eventually, but one of my colleagues and I wrote a book on boiling and near-critical heat transfer, and published that in the seventies. So we sort of documented some of the work that was done. This fellow was Chinese, Taiwanese, and he was doing—when I heard about him, when we were entering some of this boiling research, I heard about him through some of my connections. I was active in technical societies, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. He was doing postdoctoral work. Even though he wasn’t a citizen at that time, we managed to get him on board, and Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden approved his coming. So Y. Y. Hsu and I wrote this book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any other technical societies or professional societies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a part of the IAA [International Academy of Astronautics], too. I kind of dropped that, but I was very active in ASME [American Society of Mechanical Engineers]. I was a Governor of the society, and I was Senior Vice President for Public Affairs, and one time I was a candidate for President, but I wasn’t selected. But up till quite recently, I was active in it. Kind of dropped out three years ago in any committee work or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just taking it easy now?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.068041000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we still carried on a basic research program in heat transfer, and even though the hydrogen sort of tapered off eventually, but one of my colleagues and I wrote a book on boiling and near-critical heat transfer, and published that in the seventies. So we sort of documented some of the work that was done. This fellow was Chinese, Taiwanese, and he was doing—when I heard about him, when we were entering some of this boiling research, I heard about him through some of my connections. I was active in technical societies, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. He was doing postdoctoral work. Even though he wasn’t a citizen at that time, we managed to get him on board, and Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden approved his coming. So Y. Y. Hsu and I wrote this book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any other technical societies or professional societies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a part of the IAA [International Academy of Astronautics], too. I kind of dropped that, but I was very active in ASME [American Society of Mechanical Engineers]. I was a Governor of the society, and I was Senior Vice President for Public Affairs, and one time I was a candidate for President, but I wasn’t selected. But up till quite recently, I was active in it. Kind of dropped out three years ago in any committee work or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just taking it easy now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that you give other people a chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you can think of that we haven’t talked about, as far as your NACA experience, that you’d like to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.964490000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a part of the IAA [International Academy of Astronautics], too. I kind of dropped that, but I was very active in ASME [American Society of Mechanical Engineers]. I was a Governor of the society, and I was Senior Vice President for Public Affairs, and one time I was a candidate for President, but I wasn’t selected. But up till quite recently, I was active in it. Kind of dropped out three years ago in any committee work or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just taking it easy now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that you give other people a chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you can think of that we haven’t talked about, as far as your NACA experience, that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had an interesting experience with Dr. Dryden. In that book there, it’s mentioned, too, in talking about him, so you could refer to that, but I got the idea—I’m very active in my church, and our church is in a campus on Baldwin-Wallace College in Cleveland, Ohio. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. I talked to the President one time—he’s a member of our church, as well—and said I’d like to have a conference, which eventually was called Conversations about the Ethical Use of Knowledge. We got an assortment of experts to come, and Dr. Dryden consented to come. He stayed at my house. Great, great guy, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an experience, I imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.516100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that you give other people a chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything you can think of that we haven’t talked about, as far as your NACA experience, that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had an interesting experience with Dr. Dryden. In that book there, it’s mentioned, too, in talking about him, so you could refer to that, but I got the idea—I’m very active in my church, and our church is in a campus on Baldwin-Wallace College in Cleveland, Ohio. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. I talked to the President one time—he’s a member of our church, as well—and said I’d like to have a conference, which eventually was called Conversations about the Ethical Use of Knowledge. We got an assortment of experts to come, and Dr. Dryden consented to come. He stayed at my house. Great, great guy, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an experience, I imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So he wrote a big piece, and I have a record of that conference. That was in the early sixties. So that was very much of a highlight for me. I was General Chairman of the conference. It was down at Baldwin-Wallace College. A number of people from Lewis came over and participated. So that’s, I think, probably one of the really nice memories. I had such regard for that guy. He was so humble, and yet so brilliant. We used to get a Christmas card from him every year. [Laughter] That was, “Hugh and Libby Dryden,” just that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had a chance to work with some very amazing people during your career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1290000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had an interesting experience with Dr. Dryden. In that book there, it’s mentioned, too, in talking about him, so you could refer to that, but I got the idea—I’m very active in my church, and our church is in a campus on Baldwin-Wallace College in Cleveland, Ohio. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. I talked to the President one time—he’s a member of our church, as well—and said I’d like to have a conference, which eventually was called Conversations about the Ethical Use of Knowledge. We got an assortment of experts to come, and Dr. Dryden consented to come. He stayed at my house. Great, great guy, really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an experience, I imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So he wrote a big piece, and I have a record of that conference. That was in the early sixties. So that was very much of a highlight for me. I was General Chairman of the conference. It was down at Baldwin-Wallace College. A number of people from Lewis came over and participated. So that’s, I think, probably one of the really nice memories. I had such regard for that guy. He was so humble, and yet so brilliant. We used to get a Christmas card from him every year. [Laughter] That was, “Hugh and Libby Dryden,” just that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had a chance to work with some very amazing people during your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an opportunity."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.8100000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So he wrote a big piece, and I have a record of that conference. That was in the early sixties. So that was very much of a highlight for me. I was General Chairman of the conference. It was down at Baldwin-Wallace College. A number of people from Lewis came over and participated. So that’s, I think, probably one of the really nice memories. I had such regard for that guy. He was so humble, and yet so brilliant. We used to get a Christmas card from him every year. [Laughter] That was, “Hugh and Libby Dryden,” just that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you had a chance to work with some very amazing people during your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I’ve had an exciting life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t regret not going back to teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite an opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I’ve had an exciting life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t regret not going back to teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And, of course, what happened was I had so much opportunity to teach, and I was an Adjunct Professor at North Carolina State University [Raleigh, North Carolina], and I lectured at a number of colleges, Minnesota, Purdue, [University of] Cincinnati [Cincinnati, Ohio]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to do both, then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. I’ve had an exciting life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don’t regret not going back to teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And, of course, what happened was I had so much opportunity to teach, and I was an Adjunct Professor at North Carolina State University [Raleigh, North Carolina], and I lectured at a number of colleges, Minnesota, Purdue, [University of] Cincinnati [Cincinnati, Ohio]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to do both, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I guess you build your house, and you get emotionally attached. You get emotionally attached to your community, and you have children and they’re there. You know what happens. You get anchored down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the social life involve your entire family? Did the children of the people you worked with, did they all go to school with your kids and did the social life extend?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. And, of course, what happened was I had so much opportunity to teach, and I was an Adjunct Professor at North Carolina State University [Raleigh, North Carolina], and I lectured at a number of colleges, Minnesota, Purdue, [University of] Cincinnati [Cincinnati, Ohio]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got to do both, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I guess you build your house, and you get emotionally attached. You get emotionally attached to your community, and you have children and they’re there. You know what happens. You get anchored down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the social life involve your entire family? Did the children of the people you worked with, did they all go to school with your kids and did the social life extend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We had picnics. We had a lot of really great family picnics at Lewis, and the Christmas programs. When the kids were little, they had a great program there for Christmas season. It was interesting. People of all faiths and colors and everything, but we got along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A special time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00943:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I guess you build your house, and you get emotionally attached. You get emotionally attached to your community, and you have children and they’re there. You know what happens. You get anchored down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the social life involve your entire family? Did the children of the people you worked with, did they all go to school with your kids and did the social life extend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We had picnics. We had a lot of really great family picnics at Lewis, and the Christmas programs. When the kids were little, they had a great program there for Christmas season. It was interesting. People of all faiths and colors and everything, but we got along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A special time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if there’s not anything else, I appreciate you coming by to visit with us and sharing this information with us, and we’ll definitely use this, this history that you wrote."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.050232337697715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The most, one was in history when I was a child. But I was I think I was the only one who, when I returned, ultimately became a professor at Teachers College at Temple University. I was one, I think the only one that went into education after high school, but they went into other other areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to say I was one of the people switched jobs. My second year, I worked in the National Museum."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And I think I think it was good because it was more enriching for the volunteer to do something who was personally satisfying and it was more enriching for the country, I think to do something, you know, have people in different areas. And then people met people in different areas. So getting back to Nigeria, it was. I was robbed once in the house, I mean, I slept through it, but there were some thieves who came and just went, all of the staff lived in the compound, the students lived in the compound, and they just went from house to house. They were very quiet and I didn't have much. So they I don't know if I had a record player, which they didn't take. I don't know what they took, but maybe a couple of items of clothing. But other than that, it was very safe. And even women at that time could travel from city to city in a public taxi or the truck, mammy wagons, they call them I think. It was very safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a town where you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had one bank, one what they call cold store, where you could get they had a refrigerator and one gas station, I would I don't know if it was, you know, 20,000 or it was very I mean, not big. And the caller was on the outskirts. As I said, it was 240 stores. There was another secondary Catholic secondary school nearby with about maybe 300 secondary school students. And a few churches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were your students coed at that point or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 32.89666462097708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, the O-levels, the A-levels. So that was still going on. They had to prepare them to take these standardized exams that were sent to England to be checked, to be sure that the standard was kept high. But that wasn't the case in the south. But in Nigeria, as I said, they liberalized the curriculum, too, with the introduction of a Nigerian novelist, American autobiography, and Hillary's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I retired from Teachers College, I moved to Japan, where my family was, I been commuting back and forth and I had occasion to work with a Japanese college in New Zealand. From the beginning, it started some years earlier. And I was a consultant, I went to New Zealand quite a few times as a consultant and when I went retired from teachers college and moved to Tokyo. They asked me if I would come to become president of this college because the president had been recruited by another college and he decided he wanted to go to this was a larger college. So it was a step up for him. So they said, can you come out for six months? So anyway, I stayed for eight years, but the connection is that I never thought when I was in Nigeria eating Nigerian lamb chops that I would be living in New Zealand with 80 million sheep running around and I would never dream have dreamt of meeting through Edmund Hillary. He was the honorary president of the returned New Zealand overseas volunteers. And one of the members of our staff was the president of the Returned Overseas New Zealand Volunteers. So she always invited me to receptions in Wellington, which was the capital, the political capital, and they would hold it at the State House Government House. And Sir Edmund Hillary will always be there to speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, so we turn to New Zealand volunteers, but they have a Peace Corps as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, they call it voluntary service overseas. It was the same as England and Australia. Well, Japan has the same thing. I mean, they call it something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But is the same idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.184369183016415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much the even though everybody lived on staff. They never interacted socially. In other words, like at the Catholic Secondary School. Well, it was different. They were all there were nuns and then there were some Americans and British all in on campus, but they were all the same age and simmering background. But the age difference at my campus, the different subjects, and they were from different tribes. I mean, not that they were antagonistic. Everyone was friendly in the staff room. And we had social events when somebody left, when somebody came and it was all very amicable, but they simply didn't it wasn't the custom to have other people over for a meal. So in two years, the principal asked me, like the day after I got there or the night I got over for dinner, that was that was that was it. So we were very friendly. But I really the other thing that was quite a bit of turnover. So I got to know a couple of you know, we could talk in the staffroom and compare notes, but also we talk very there were a couple of other English teachers where we all thought different levels. So we didn't have that much in common to talk about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should I stop it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, stop it, sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were saying that people weren't socializing with each other too much. What did you do at night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Read the Peace Corp book locker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 36.87152131446268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, stop it, sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were saying that people weren't socializing with each other too much. What did you do at night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Read the Peace Corp book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spent a couple of nights in the library. The library was in totally total disarray when I got there. So I asked the principal if I could organize it and, you know, get cabinets and things. He said, fine, sure. I organized the library committee. And students would look at the Dewey Decimal System and classify the books, put labels on and make cards, and so a couple of nights a week, I went through to work with them. And then the other night, between getting ready for class and reading, what students wrote was pretty busy on the weekend. I often visited the teachers at the half the girls who I went to for breakfast. Well, I went to for Mass and then stayed for breakfast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Peace Corps volunteers there or not?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.119174438962006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Half year, after the first year or so after that, this set of policy, you can only travel in Africa, essentially that was which made sense. Having said that, it was a good break and I got a lot of slides from different countries and then shared this visit, you know, to the middle of Turkey and Greece, Israel and Jordan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That was quite a bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Egypt with the students, so it was quiet, it was very informative and helpful for the for the students. We had quite a few evenings. It was voluntary, of course, but almost all the students came to these sessions. We had electricity two hours a night. There was a school generator. There was no electricity in town, except it is an individual dance hall with the banquet that a generator, everybody had a generator. So two hours a night and then we use the lantern. If we stayed up late or we used the lantern before eight o'clock, it was just on from eight to 10. But when I did the rounds at night. There was a curfew that was supposed to go to sleep by 10:00. That's why they turned the lights off, but when they were studying for exams, they would have a flashlight under their blanket. And of course, they usually hear you coming in would turn it off, but one guy didn't hear me coming. So I said, Benedict, what are you doing? Sir, I am sleeping.\n\nBut generally, they were very they adhere to the rules. And of course, they had the. What did the British call that system? Where senior students are responsible for junior students after do an infraction, they give them punishment. So it worked pretty well and because they were mature, they didn't misuse their authority very much because the other students were of a like age or they weren't there. So that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think, thinking back, that was the first year of independence? You said they changed the curriculum. Were there other things that were going on at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, not that, I mean,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that, you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.02130493218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Egypt with the students, so it was quiet, it was very informative and helpful for the for the students. We had quite a few evenings. It was voluntary, of course, but almost all the students came to these sessions. We had electricity two hours a night. There was a school generator. There was no electricity in town, except it is an individual dance hall with the banquet that a generator, everybody had a generator. So two hours a night and then we use the lantern. If we stayed up late or we used the lantern before eight o'clock, it was just on from eight to 10. But when I did the rounds at night. There was a curfew that was supposed to go to sleep by 10:00. That's why they turned the lights off, but when they were studying for exams, they would have a flashlight under their blanket. And of course, they usually hear you coming in would turn it off, but one guy didn't hear me coming. So I said, Benedict, what are you doing? Sir, I am sleeping.\n\nBut generally, they were very they adhere to the rules. And of course, they had the. What did the British call that system? Where senior students are responsible for junior students after do an infraction, they give them punishment. So it worked pretty well and because they were mature, they didn't misuse their authority very much because the other students were of a like age or they weren't there. So that was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think, thinking back, that was the first year of independence? You said they changed the curriculum. Were there other things that were going on at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, not that, I mean,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't talk about it much, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't talk about."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00028:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 43.3570054802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I mean, not that, I mean,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't talk about it much, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't talk about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we. Well, I should. Every morning we had assembly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00383:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it worked. Now it's playing out again. It took a while, almost twenty years, but here we are again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You probably would have never thought it would take quite so long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we never did. We thought it would be back much faster than that, but life is surprising in many ways, and here we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many ways."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you very much for joining us today and sharing all this with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00641:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 51.10777548810001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hi, Jennifer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks again for taking some time. We definitely appreciate it, know you guys have a very busy schedule these days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, my pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us how you became involved with Orion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been working on Space Station for quite a number of years, in one form or another, for actually 22 years before that. It was late in 2005 when I applied for—at the time it was called Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV)—one of the CEV integration jobs and was selected and came over in November of 2005 as just a career move out of Space Station and into this new and burgeoning part of the human spaceflight program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read in your PP&C [Program Planning and Control] interview that you were working on establishing organizational structures and working on relationships with the contractors. Can you elaborate on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00641:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.78641720900001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, my pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us how you became involved with Orion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been working on Space Station for quite a number of years, in one form or another, for actually 22 years before that. It was late in 2005 when I applied for—at the time it was called Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV)—one of the CEV integration jobs and was selected and came over in November of 2005 as just a career move out of Space Station and into this new and burgeoning part of the human spaceflight program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read in your PP&C [Program Planning and Control] interview that you were working on establishing organizational structures and working on relationships with the contractors. Can you elaborate on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One half step behind that, I originally came over into an SE&I [Systems Engineering and Integration] role within the organization that existed at the time. It was shortly after Skip [Caris A.] Hatfield became Program Manager that he asked me to come join him on the staff. In that role one of the things that he was doing was shaping the organization and aligning it with some of the other organizations that were forming up. The Project was actually created and developing before the overarching Program was created; it was called Constellation later on. There’s a little bit of reshaping that was required there. Plus, there was an administration that actually was trying to drive different kinds of relationships around the Agency.\\n\\n There were a number of things that the Agency and the Program were asking of this organization, and that’s one of the things that Skip needed, my help in helping to create some of the structures but also shaping some of the expectations of how the organization would look, how we would interact with the industry, which came online about a year later in August or September of ’06 with the prime contract. That’s one example of what I was asked to do in this Assistant Program Manager role, staff role to the Program Manager. It’s a pretty broad role with no definition, and it changes from day to day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, yes, and a very new Program as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00641:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 57.76100890000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One half step behind that, I originally came over into an SE&I [Systems Engineering and Integration] role within the organization that existed at the time. It was shortly after Skip [Caris A.] Hatfield became Program Manager that he asked me to come join him on the staff. In that role one of the things that he was doing was shaping the organization and aligning it with some of the other organizations that were forming up. The Project was actually created and developing before the overarching Program was created; it was called Constellation later on. There’s a little bit of reshaping that was required there. Plus, there was an administration that actually was trying to drive different kinds of relationships around the Agency.\\n\\n There were a number of things that the Agency and the Program were asking of this organization, and that’s one of the things that Skip needed, my help in helping to create some of the structures but also shaping some of the expectations of how the organization would look, how we would interact with the industry, which came online about a year later in August or September of ’06 with the prime contract. That’s one example of what I was asked to do in this Assistant Program Manager role, staff role to the Program Manager. It’s a pretty broad role with no definition, and it changes from day to day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, yes, and a very new Program as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at the time, that’s right. It was a brand-new Program, so it was relationships. It was processes. It was communication within the Agency, and obviously as I said with this new Program that we fell underneath as Constellation started emerging. It was a lot of forming and storming of making the organization come together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned communication. I’m wondering how did the Columbia [STS-107] accident impact the type of communication that you were looking at at that point. Did it impact that in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking about the context of your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably not, based on the way you’re looking at me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00641:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 56.401121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, at the time, that’s right. It was a brand-new Program, so it was relationships. It was processes. It was communication within the Agency, and obviously as I said with this new Program that we fell underneath as Constellation started emerging. It was a lot of forming and storming of making the organization come together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned communication. I’m wondering how did the Columbia [STS-107] accident impact the type of communication that you were looking at at that point. Did it impact that in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking about the context of your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably not, based on the way you’re looking at me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think of an example of how we deliberately shaped our communications. As far as communicating with the Program, with [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC], that was ’03, this was ’05, ’06. A lot of what was asked of the larger organization was already in place, I would say. Clearly as an organization shaped with highly refined safety culture and that sort of thing, we were very much already sensitized to the need for organizational communications with the Program Manager for decision making that was intentional about drawing in all sides of a discussion, working with dissenting opinions. I really actually can’t think of an example of how we changed things based on the Columbia accident by the time we were standing up a Program Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did Station influence your ideas about how the organization should be structured, having worked for Station for 22 years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.689207782122448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you, Russ."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, can you say a little bit about why you joined the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been an African history major in college. That kind of happened by accident early on is what I opted to do. And by the time I was a senior, I was very, very curious to experience Africa firsthand, live and work there. And Peace Corps offered the, the easiest and obvious way to do that. So I applied to Peace Corps in the winter of my senior year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Yale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.876897535691608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had been an African history major in college. That kind of happened by accident early on is what I opted to do. And by the time I was a senior, I was very, very curious to experience Africa firsthand, live and work there. And Peace Corps offered the, the easiest and obvious way to do that. So I applied to Peace Corps in the winter of my senior year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Yale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a very good friend who had graduated the previous year who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Tanzania working on a rural settlement scheme. And he and I wrote back and forth quite a bit. I certainly knew about Peace Corps from its, from its origins, as I think almost every undergraduate did in a college like Yale. I would say, though, that probably only ten or 12 out of the 1,000 who graduated in my class actually went into Peace Corps. I was very, very keen to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean only ten or 12 actually applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.19655281743512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Yale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, um, how did you hear about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a very good friend who had graduated the previous year who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Tanzania working on a rural settlement scheme. And he and I wrote back and forth quite a bit. I certainly knew about Peace Corps from its, from its origins, as I think almost every undergraduate did in a college like Yale. I would say, though, that probably only ten or 12 out of the 1,000 who graduated in my class actually went into Peace Corps. I was very, very keen to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean only ten or 12 actually applied?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but I think all who applied probably did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Interesting. Why do you think that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.273735003340356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We can talk a little bit more about deferments and the draft, but in 1967."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Deferments for graduate school were pretty routine. One year later, they were not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think that, um, if someone's real motive was to see an alternative path to military service, that was less important and probably I'm just guessing, but someone who went in 1966 or '67 went in very often because Peace Corps service appealed to them. It did to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. And what was your reaction when you were accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.69308794900222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I looked at that and I had some questions in my own mind. This was the spring leading up to the Biafran War. And I had two classmates who were graduates who came from eastern Nigeria."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they said, it won't happen. You have a civil war about to, about to break out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You better look at an alternative, which I thought probably I would like. I was more interested in East and Central Africa anyway. Anyway, I called a friend who had been a teacher of mine who'd been in the Ford Foundation in Kenya, and he said, well, obviously go to Kenya. And I said, it's not obvious, how do you do it? He gave me the telephone number of the desk officer at Peace Corps, and he said, just call her. She's a friend. So I did. And after she had put me on the list, she said, you know, I'm not supposed to do this, but I just did. So there's a great good turn in my life done by someone at the request of a friend. Not the way you're supposed to do it, but it's how it happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's very interesting. I think a lot of people have had serendipitous experiences like that that just, just happened. And it fortunately worked out for everyone the right way. So. You went to Kenya. Where did you do your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.899844458165245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we were trained there. And our training included a month in the countryside at an old hotel, learning Swahili 8 hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the last two months of training were in the New York City school system. We each apprenticed to a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we also lived with a host family, in most cases in the projects in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you lived with a host family in New York City?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.743186943327142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a fabulous eye-opening and rewarding and very close experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had very little to do with anything I experienced later in Kenya, but it was, it was a, uh, it was worthwhile in its own right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to understand a part of the United States that might have been not too far away from where I lived, but very, very different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you originally from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.825763270363492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had very little to do with anything I experienced later in Kenya, but it was, it was a, uh, it was worthwhile in its own right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to understand a part of the United States that might have been not too far away from where I lived, but very, very different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you originally from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up about two miles from the Yale campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in New Haven?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.028625855959435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to understand a part of the United States that might have been not too far away from where I lived, but very, very different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you originally from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up about two miles from the Yale campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in New Haven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay. So in this training process at Columbia University, there was a deselection component. How did that go for you or what was your experience in that, in observing it and participating in it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.365139839954928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up about two miles from the Yale campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in New Haven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, okay. So in this training process at Columbia University, there was a deselection component. How did that go for you or what was your experience in that, in observing it and participating in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell a story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, please do. I think everyone who's gone through it has a story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.033006215100892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In our group. It was education IV I think, you know, the fourth, the fourth cohort going to Kenya. And we were trained with about 30 who went to Uganda."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, but I have no memory of it, that several people above the number of 50 were deselected. But there was one instance I remember very well. Well, two things I remember very well. Let me tell you the deselection story then I'll tell you one other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they're very, they're good stories to tell. One of our group who became a good friend of mine during training and who remains a very good friend to this day, his host family turned out to be the, um, backup singer for Aretha Franklin, who lived in a penthouse apartment in Harlem. And while he was there as a guest in this apartment, due to some domestic problems that his host had, all the furniture was repossessed except for, I guess, one chair and a couple of mattresses or something like that. It was so bizarre, I think so far outside of what Peace Corps training thought they were doing, that we were asked to write up our experience. What have we seen? What have we learned? What impact did it have?\n\nAnd my friend said, the only way I can capture this is I'll write a one act play. And the shrink decided that based on that play, he should be deselected. And we had a rebellion and we basically told the training group, if he doesn't go to Kenya, none of us will go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.03447342901809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really think that many, if not all of us, would have said, you're messing with him for all the wrong reasons. I mean, there were a number of other experiences people had, and it just wasn't. It wasn't managed very professionally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other experience from training. While we were at language training in Monroe, New York, the Hotel Monte Carlo. I don't know if you went there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was kind of on the edge of the Catskills. We rented a bus to take everyone who wanted to go, and everyone did, to Washington to participate in the first large antiwar march."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.90599921676007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In October 1967. Our training director told us we couldn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we told him there was room for him on the bus. And he couldn't prevent us. We had hired the bus. The bus was going to show up, you know, at 5:00 Saturday morning or whatever. And if there was any punishment meted out, then some of us just wouldn't come back. I mean, we were a little bit of an ornery group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, but these, these were two things that everybody said, come on, this is, this is a free country. We have freedom of speech and Saturday's a day off anyway. Instead of playing touch football, we're going to participate and exercise our right of free speech. I don't want to paint the training director as authoritarian. He was smart enough to ride with us on the bus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. Well, so then you went over to Kenya and you had some training there, and then you went out to your."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.857337745898583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had no train, we were, we were, I think, sworn in in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right at the very end, right before Christmas of 1967. And so when we got off the plane in Kenya, in Nairobi, the Peace Corps director, whom you might remember, Bob."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that Bob Poole?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.4293683989544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for some reason, uh, in fact, well, I could talk more about my assignment. But this was someone in your own Peace Corps group, Dan Fitts, who was extending and coming back for a third year as I was starting my first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were in Nairobi for probably three or four days and then sent in multiple different directions. In my case, I, whatever I had, might have been, it might have been a small truck or a couple of suitcases. And I got in the back of what was called the Rift Valley Peugeot Service and rode up 200 miles to Eldoret. And the headmaster of my school met me there and so took me around the town of Eldoret, which was 30 miles from the school. And I really, you know, I don't think I had sort of a game plan of how I was going to live. He said, don't worry, we have a nice house. You'll share the house with Dan. Everything is kind of set up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you couldn't ask for a softer landing than I had. You could not ask for one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very nice. So. So when you got there, were you given your assignments or how did that, how did they decide what you would do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.172059751795555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you couldn't ask for a softer landing than I had. You could not ask for one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very nice. So. So when you got there, were you given your assignments or how did that, how did they decide what you would do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They knew I was a history teacher and that I actually had majored in African history. And 1968, the year I began to teach, was the first year that African history was on the form for Cambridge curriculum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had just switched over, so there was actually something I knew that was useful. I think many Peace Corps volunteers have to find that out. Sometimes that's a long, a long process. But in this case is that we know what you want, want you to do, and we want you to teach history to Form 4 and Form 3. And what else? Basically anything not science. Eventually, I taught geography, English lit, and so forth, and it was a, it was a well-established school at that point. It had been started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many students were there? Ballpark."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.411909792047569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at that time, out of the 300 or so boys, I would say probably 80 percent were Kalenjin from Nandi County, Uasin Gishu County to the north. A few from Kericho. The other 15 or 20 percent were from other communities. Kikuyu, Luhya, a few Luos. Most of those came from the Rift Valley, from other districts in the Rift Valley. And at the time I went, I think we probably had 12 teachers to cover all the classes. And there were, each class that I taught in was roughly 35 to 40, 40 plus each. Each of the forms or classes was split into two streams. And they were I think, as I recall, ranked by performance. So there was an A stream and a B stream."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty traditional."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had been to a boarding school in New England before Yale. So guess what? And Dan Fitts had grown up, his father taught at Phillips Andover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no kidding."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.679899768941743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was pretty traditional."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had been to a boarding school in New England before Yale. So guess what? And Dan Fitts had grown up, his father taught at Phillips Andover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I showed, he showed up and he said, I heard you were here. Welcome. And he said, you're going to find quite a bit of this quite familiar. We had a headmaster at that point who'd been in Kenya for several years, but he had been from a public school in London and Oxford. And so there was an English, if you will, orientation. And of course the exam system that was the foundation came out of the, as they call them, the Cambridge exams. Out of the 12 teachers we had when I started, there were, I would say, if we were 12, I think we were. There were eight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these all men teachers as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.088777521046381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had been to a boarding school in New England before Yale. So guess what? And Dan Fitts had grown up, his father taught at Phillips Andover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I showed, he showed up and he said, I heard you were here. Welcome. And he said, you're going to find quite a bit of this quite familiar. We had a headmaster at that point who'd been in Kenya for several years, but he had been from a public school in London and Oxford. And so there was an English, if you will, orientation. And of course the exam system that was the foundation came out of the, as they call them, the Cambridge exams. Out of the 12 teachers we had when I started, there were, I would say, if we were 12, I think we were. There were eight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these all men teachers as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there are a couple of women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.65419724560709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I showed, he showed up and he said, I heard you were here. Welcome. And he said, you're going to find quite a bit of this quite familiar. We had a headmaster at that point who'd been in Kenya for several years, but he had been from a public school in London and Oxford. And so there was an English, if you will, orientation. And of course the exam system that was the foundation came out of the, as they call them, the Cambridge exams. Out of the 12 teachers we had when I started, there were, I would say, if we were 12, I think we were. There were eight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these all men teachers as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there are a couple of women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they foreign or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.108308627959755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when it came to written material, often it was stuff I would type on my little Olivetti and then we'd run it off on a mimeograph machine and, and carbons and everything like that. So we were. I knew the material, I'd read it and I had a few resource books but. And one more anecdote you might enjoy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About language. We had a really terrific group of Kenyans and a couple of Tanzanians who taught us Swahili through the whole training period in the U.S. They'd all gone to school in the U.S. Some were hoping to stay on or planning to stay on, and they were hired by Peace Corps, in some cases multiple times, as language teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we finished training, we were all given a FSI test. And I think the expectation was, well, everyone's had three months, a month of immersion and then 2 hours a day for two more months. Some of it must have sunk in. And one person in our group got a zero plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A zero plus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.564787364399728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About language. We had a really terrific group of Kenyans and a couple of Tanzanians who taught us Swahili through the whole training period in the U.S. They'd all gone to school in the U.S. Some were hoping to stay on or planning to stay on, and they were hired by Peace Corps, in some cases multiple times, as language teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when we finished training, we were all given a FSI test. And I think the expectation was, well, everyone's had three months, a month of immersion and then 2 hours a day for two more months. Some of it must have sunk in. And one person in our group got a zero plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A zero plus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was able to go to Kenya and eventually his Swahili got quite a bit better. And I did okay with that. But when we got to the, when I got to the school, um, one of the things the headmaster, English headmaster, told me is the boys do not, are not permitted to speak their vernacular language. It's not right, because we have different groups here and different languages. And so Swahili is all right and English is all right. But they may not speak Nandi. So we were walking out of a school assembly early in my time and I heard the voice talking and I finally I talked to Dan, who had been teaching there for two years, and I said, are they speaking Swahili? And he said, no, no, they're speaking Nandi. They're not supposed to. I said, what a relief, because I didn't understand a word. What a relief.\n\nBut the Swahili was not something that I used in the classroom. However, it made my contact with people, particularly around the school and outside the school, a whole lot easier, because in many cases, these are people who weren't speaking much English. And on the school grounds and campus, English was the language that I taught in. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your living arrangements then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.635539956049047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was able to go to Kenya and eventually his Swahili got quite a bit better. And I did okay with that. But when we got to the, when I got to the school, um, one of the things the headmaster, English headmaster, told me is the boys do not, are not permitted to speak their vernacular language. It's not right, because we have different groups here and different languages. And so Swahili is all right and English is all right. But they may not speak Nandi. So we were walking out of a school assembly early in my time and I heard the voice talking and I finally I talked to Dan, who had been teaching there for two years, and I said, are they speaking Swahili? And he said, no, no, they're speaking Nandi. They're not supposed to. I said, what a relief, because I didn't understand a word. What a relief.\n\nBut the Swahili was not something that I used in the classroom. However, it made my contact with people, particularly around the school and outside the school, a whole lot easier, because in many cases, these are people who weren't speaking much English. And on the school grounds and campus, English was the language that I taught in. But, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were your living arrangements then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a house that must have been built almost at the time the school was built in the 1920s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A three bedroom house with, uh, a small kitchen just outside it. And, you know, living room. Dining room. Two big bedrooms, one small one. And bathroom. Running water. Electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "24 hour electricity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.589452760324715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was on the school generator for a while. And then they went onto the main grid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the road that ran by the school was being paved. So, as I say, this was not just a soft landing on arrival, it probably got softer. So I never got defensive about it except to say, look, I was asked to do, carry a very heavy teaching load and really focus on doing that and doing that well. And I was able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I know a lot of my friends who are teaching in schools that didn't have the same facilities or resources. They faced challenges that I didn't face, but they weren't able to. The culture wasn't necessarily there to promote dedicated teaching. Maybe you could say the infrastructure wasn't there. Leadership wasn't there. So their experiences were different in lots of different ways. So I just think in terms of what Peace Corps sent me there to do and what I was asked specifically to do. Um, I. Yeah, I had all kinds of, if you will, comfort and support to focus on doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it you how to cook and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.543836400360794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then the road that ran by the school was being paved. So, as I say, this was not just a soft landing on arrival, it probably got softer. So I never got defensive about it except to say, look, I was asked to do, carry a very heavy teaching load and really focus on doing that and doing that well. And I was able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I know a lot of my friends who are teaching in schools that didn't have the same facilities or resources. They faced challenges that I didn't face, but they weren't able to. The culture wasn't necessarily there to promote dedicated teaching. Maybe you could say the infrastructure wasn't there. Leadership wasn't there. So their experiences were different in lots of different ways. So I just think in terms of what Peace Corps sent me there to do and what I was asked specifically to do. Um, I. Yeah, I had all kinds of, if you will, comfort and support to focus on doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I take it you how to cook and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How to cook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you pay for that through your Peace Corps salary or how did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.382771529280283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then Peace Corps paid the school, I believe, $15 a month towards the rental and maintenance of the house. So that kind of just passed through. And it was, the funds were put in our bank account at the Commercial Bank of Africa in Nairobi, and you could take a check from that account and go down to the local store in, um, in the town of Kapsabet, where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or in Eldoret, if I went up there shopping. And in terms of moving around, we were encouraged by Peace Corps to hitchhike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hitchhike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It took some patience because sometimes there'd be long waits before you'd see a vehicle. The number of vehicles on the road in 1968 was a tiny, tiny fraction of what you'd see today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that hitchhike instead of taking like a local bus or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.906830558268986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if you wanted to hitchhike, that was fine. There were no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No restrictions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so sometimes I can remember going off for a weekend. I'd get all the way to Nairobi hitchhiking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's 130 miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good question. Um, what? So you taught these basic courses. Did you have any other responsibilities in the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.48816812829455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this is the part of Kenya where all the great runners come from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in, uh, the beginning of my teaching, someone pointed out to one of the guys in the classroom, and like several of them, he looked like he was probably about as old as I was, maybe early twenties. And they said, Julius won't be here all year because he's going to the Olympics. And I thought, well, that's fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're all proud of him. And so he did. He went to the Mexico City Olympics as a member of the team, and then actually went to Munich in '72 and won a gold medal. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, he must have been a hero when he came home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.320186809216166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in, uh, the beginning of my teaching, someone pointed out to one of the guys in the classroom, and like several of them, he looked like he was probably about as old as I was, maybe early twenties. And they said, Julius won't be here all year because he's going to the Olympics. And I thought, well, that's fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're all proud of him. And so he did. He went to the Mexico City Olympics as a member of the team, and then actually went to Munich in '72 and won a gold medal. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, he must have been a hero when he came home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, yeah, he was. Kipchoge Keino was the best known of the runners then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, of course."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.067471617580473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Came from the same general area. But yeah, so track and field was important. Sports were important. They had organized sports. So we had a rugby team, we had track and field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had, they played field hockey, which men do in the Commonwealth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We played, had a basketball court, all the pretty simple stuff. The annual tuition boarding costs for the boys were probably close to what I was being paid every month, $100 plus or minus. And that was a real stretch for a lot of families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Their families paid for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.074968463978303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had, they played field hockey, which men do in the Commonwealth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We played, had a basketball court, all the pretty simple stuff. The annual tuition boarding costs for the boys were probably close to what I was being paid every month, $100 plus or minus. And that was a real stretch for a lot of families."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Their families paid for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Families did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't scholarships or anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.820258523975722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some scholarships, but it was pretty informal. And, uh, you know, I got a sense from getting to know the kids, getting to know the boys, of what a deep commitment there was to education in Kenya. And that continues to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That it was and, you know, there were high expectations that boys would go through. They would take their Form 4 exam and some would go on to upper secondary and university. But coming out of this school in that part of the country, if you came out with a good record, you might go to work in a junior manager job in the tea estates or get a job in government, get a job, go to teacher training college. So, you know, families had high expectations for what their, uh, what their boys could achieve. But we were, we were a boarding school, kind of a self- contained community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I'll just jump ahead for a moment and say that, uh, in the middle of my second year, I wrote to Peace Corps and said, what would be the opportunity to go and teach in another country?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in another country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.342550770406728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And an interesting thing happened at the turn of that year. I wasn't sure if this was an official policy change, or whether the rule just got relaxed so that several people kind of failed to observe it, including me. But I've talked to a couple of friends from my time there and they said no. Country director of Peace Corps said as of late 1969, if you want to get a vehicle and run it at your own expense, you may do so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now that's, that's probably a very short slice of time in the whole history of Peace Corps in Kenya. But I asked my friend and I said, did I break a rule? He said, you didn't break rules as far as I remember. It was okay. So you got, you bought a used VW bug from a teacher who was, was leaving. And I'd had, you know, a lot of friendly contact with a lot of the boys at school. They'd say, sir, you know, come meet the family. I'd say, how are we going to get there? And they said, well, you know, we'll walk home. It's about 24 miles. You want to walk?\n\nAnd Peace Corps in 1968 and '69 particularly looked at the school vacations as time when we should not, as the volunteers, teachers, we should not be idle. We need something to do. So they would say, all right, we have a project to do vaccinations, smallpox and BCG vaccinations. And we need eight or ten volunteers to go to Kilifi on the Kenyan coast. So I spent three or four weeks there on one school holiday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The end of 1968, I went to the north, to Samburu district."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.98493586390948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it opened my eyes in a very lasting way to, you know, the breadth of human experience and another society. And it, it fueled and rewarded my curiosity. I think I became a more open, curious person when I was there, and that shaped my career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd grown up in a very traditional upper middle class family in Connecticut, the son and nephew and grandson of attorneys. My mother's family had been in the state of Connecticut since they founded it. My father's, my father's father had come to go to college at Yale and so forth. And, you know, they were very deep rooted in a medium sized city in New England. And nobody was forcing me down that lane. But I think just learning a bit about Africa, beginning to read widely about it, and seeing the change that Africa was experiencing, I said, let me go see what that's. Let me play some role in helping as a teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a volunteer. And when I came back, what I knew was I needed to find a career that was going to continue to spark and reward my curiosity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did you decide to move into then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.208372827669447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they said, well, that's fine, because it's a small program. We have several PhDs every year, um, and so far a minority have chosen to be in academics. Others have done different things. That's fine with us. And a lot of anthropology departments, including the main department at Columbia, had a very traditional view that that's what you did. You went to teach, you went to get a, a scholar's position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this applied anthropology program based at Teacher's College just had a different, a different view. It's the right place for me. So I spent two and a half years doing coursework there, and then I went to Kenya to do my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Kakamega District, what was then Western Province, and I did my research over 18 months looking at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your research focused on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.682350115383354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then learning Luhya on top of that, which is a related language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then having some other good fortune, which was I found a very kind of well-located place to live, a shop that had been sort of converted into a house. Um, I got, I made friends at the sugar company. I made friends in the district government. Everybody knew I was there because, one, you had to explain yourself a lot. And everyone said, well, this is interesting to know how this is really going to change things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So stay out of local politics and stay out of trouble. And, um, yeah, if you want information, we think, you know, go interview people. If you want to look at the land records and see who has a title deed and who didn't because of whatever. So I had access to everybody at any level of society. And I think without Peace Corps and three years in the country before and Swahili, I would never have done that. It turns out the provincial commissioner, which is a, like a governor of the province, well, his nephew had been my student and I had just gotten his nephew a scholarship to the University of Wyoming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's where it starts."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.202611239314837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then having some other good fortune, which was I found a very kind of well-located place to live, a shop that had been sort of converted into a house. Um, I got, I made friends at the sugar company. I made friends in the district government. Everybody knew I was there because, one, you had to explain yourself a lot. And everyone said, well, this is interesting to know how this is really going to change things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So stay out of local politics and stay out of trouble. And, um, yeah, if you want information, we think, you know, go interview people. If you want to look at the land records and see who has a title deed and who didn't because of whatever. So I had access to everybody at any level of society. And I think without Peace Corps and three years in the country before and Swahili, I would never have done that. It turns out the provincial commissioner, which is a, like a governor of the province, well, his nephew had been my student and I had just gotten his nephew a scholarship to the University of Wyoming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's where it starts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is not unusual in Kenya that all the, you connect dots or dots get connected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it still existing, that, uh?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.653787708250805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The factory actually shut down about two years ago due to some chronic mismanagement and corruption."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it undercut the livelihoods of thousands of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Did I see that coming in 1974? I saw some weaknesses because it was very top down. The farmers were told what to do, when to do it, and they really made no decisions as farmers except."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the managers Africans, I mean Kenyans I guess?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2762811212972895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Did I see that coming in 1974? I saw some weaknesses because it was very top down. The farmers were told what to do, when to do it, and they really made no decisions as farmers except."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the managers Africans, I mean Kenyans I guess?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time when they started, there was a large cadre of people who, who knew, you know, engineers and managers. It became, it became Kenyan run, you know, within a few years. And it did well for a long time, but it was a mono crop situation. Eventually the soil begins to exhaust from the same crop year after year. And then there was a lot of, uh, a lot of games being played and, you know, procurement fraud and other things. It's a very sad story. I've been back there a few times, but not for the last ten years, not since this really sad chapter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I get back to my Peace Corps site, which is closer to Nairobi, more frequently. And I'll just add a word. The school that I taught at, and I have to say it makes me feel great, but this is not my achievement, is now regarded as the best boys high school in Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Isn't that lovely."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.494212786416035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is harder to get into than the Ivy League."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is, 65,000 kids put it down as their first choice and 400 got in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "65,000!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not hundred. 65 thousand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.456654240858409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And number one is named Tony. So I think we've got to get him into a great college here in the U.S. someday. But it's gratifying to see that and I, uh. One of my students, ex-students, several of them have been on the board of governors of the school, generous to the school. I think what I do feel is, I don't know where all the students are. I taught several hundred in three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there's a good number where I've been able to see where they've gone in life and to have an influence on that. And if I, uh, if I'm, if I'm there, I could run into one of them on the street in Eldoret and they'd say, mwalimu. Teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'd say, please just call me Tony. Well, I couldn't call you by that, by your first name. Yes, they can now. So it's just, I've been back in Kenya every year except for two since 19-, since I went there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Every year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.233583662335632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the PhD in anthropology, I went to work with DAI, a development consulting firm here in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of DAI's work, when I joined them in 1977 and the next couple of years, was in East Africa, in Tanzania and Kenya, Ethiopia, South Sudan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Convenient."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was, I think, you know, one reason they thought I could help them and join the staff. So I always had, you know, once I realized I could put Kenya on the travel itinerary for good reasons, legitimate reasons, it was there. And it kept me in touch with the place, with the larger society, made me feel a part of, of another country as more than a sentimental second home. I mean, I'm very deeply identified with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps has three, these three goals of provide technical assistance, better understanding Americans, and understanding of other people by Americans. Have you been able to help on that third goal in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.23756726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My experience, or through the lens of my experience. I've done some. Written occasional pieces for my school newsletter and things like that here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think I remain internationally focused most of the time. And, and the pull was strong and I always responded to the pull."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The pull."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know it was great, great opportunities to, uh, to keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me ask this. Your background now in anthropology and in being an outstanding manager and developer of a consulting firm and having world views and so on. The Peace Corps has been in business now a little over 50 years, 55 or whatever is it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.0417414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I think I remain internationally focused most of the time. And, and the pull was strong and I always responded to the pull."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The pull."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know it was great, great opportunities to, uh, to keep learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let me ask this. Your background now in anthropology and in being an outstanding manager and developer of a consulting firm and having world views and so on. The Peace Corps has been in business now a little over 50 years, 55 or whatever is it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your feeling about the future of the Peace Corps? Is it, should it be, should it continue to do the same things it's been doing for 55 years? Should there be some new direction? What's your personal feeling?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, you know, really trying to share and teach out of my own experience, going back to when I started and then the professional experience that I had. Teaching ways of approaching and understanding and solving problems that are, the problems are deeply ingrained in the places where they show up and to look at them and think about them in in a different way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To sort of understand they're not probably up to, they're not going to be solved through a single discipline or a single model. And how do you, how do you understand and begin to map out a problem and make some wise choices about what to do. That was really a large part of what I did and so was a large part of what I tried to teach to a generation that was in many cases, obviously younger, but in a significant number of returned Peace Corps volunteers were right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and some of them have gone into domestic work as well as international work. So what I found that was a good way of connecting some dots from the beginning through the end of, or the later part of my career. I guess my career is not coldly over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we want to thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00166:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To sort of understand they're not probably up to, they're not going to be solved through a single discipline or a single model. And how do you, how do you understand and begin to map out a problem and make some wise choices about what to do. That was really a large part of what I did and so was a large part of what I tried to teach to a generation that was in many cases, obviously younger, but in a significant number of returned Peace Corps volunteers were right there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so and some of them have gone into domestic work as well as international work. So what I found that was a good way of connecting some dots from the beginning through the end of, or the later part of my career. I guess my career is not coldly over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we want to thank you very much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a lovely interview and I'm sure people will appreciate this. And thank you again for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00158:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m home free.\n\nWell, the only thing—\n\nWhat did I not cover?\n\nWell, it seemed to me, and I think it’s a flight connection. [Dr. Jeannette] Piccard.\n\nJeannette Piccard, the wife of the stratosphere balloon pilot of the 1930s, was hired by Dr. Gilruth to be a special assistant to him for much of the time that I worked at NASA. She was a unique individual. She was a hot air balloon pilot. She told this story about flying over the state of Michigan in foggy weather. She was lost. She yelled down to the ground, “Hello down there! Where are you? Where are we?” She would tell this story to visitors and just amaze them. She was an elderly lady because her husband was not a young man when he flew into the stratosphere in the 1930s. This was almost 40 years later. Fantastic!\\n\\n There was another lady who didn’t have anything to do with NASA directly, but Grace [K.] Winn was brought into the organization as a liaison between NASA and Houston. She was a link to the community. Phil [Philip T.] Hamburger, who had been a councilman in Houston, became a special government liaison for MSC with the Congress. They both worked with us in the Special Events Office because they were aware of the special visitors they could help facilitate getting into MSC. They supported us very much, and the public, in NASA’s relationship in the communities around here. Grace Winn and Phil Hamburger were instrumental in being extensions of MSC’s public relations. They were very good at their assignments!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thanks for adding that. That’s pretty interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were unique individuals. They had a role they were very good at. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for sharing so much today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You think you got something?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, a few things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.19041439824266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was interested of course because my father was in that field, and I even learned the word chemistry before I could talk. I continued to be interested in chemistry and physics and mathematics in college. When I was a sophomore I decided that I would like to do chemical research and that I would need a PhD. I never changed my mind, and that’s how I became interested and how I planned my life after."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to Southwest Missouri State College [now Missouri State University, Springfield], where your father was a professor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there many other girls interested in the field of science when you were in those classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what that was like? Did the male students accept you as a serious student?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.878238220269623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there many other girls interested in the field of science when you were in those classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what that was like? Did the male students accept you as a serious student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. At first nobody would sit beside me, so I don’t really know what that meant, but little by little that changed and nobody said anything about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, apparently it didn’t bother you. I understand you graduated as the first person who had scored a perfect score from that college. That’s quite an accomplishment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.64248691141069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us what that was like? Did the male students accept you as a serious student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. At first nobody would sit beside me, so I don’t really know what that meant, but little by little that changed and nobody said anything about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, apparently it didn’t bother you. I understand you graduated as the first person who had scored a perfect score from that college. That’s quite an accomplishment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It lasted for 24 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness, and with a lot of science classes too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.602763234900763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t know. At first nobody would sit beside me, so I don’t really know what that meant, but little by little that changed and nobody said anything about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, apparently it didn’t bother you. I understand you graduated as the first person who had scored a perfect score from that college. That’s quite an accomplishment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It lasted for 24 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness, and with a lot of science classes too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left there, I believe you went to University of Chicago."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.225292483223072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It lasted for 24 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness, and with a lot of science classes too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left there, I believe you went to University of Chicago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did for a year. I took the courses that the first year student needed to be a PhD. After that I was approached by the University of Illinois to become an assistant to a professor, which meant that I would have 30 students and meet with them every day between his lectures and give a wider view to his lecture, and give a short test to them for 15 minutes. That was supposed to prepare them in a better way for the subject. That was very uneventful. No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time were you able to pursue other science aspects of what you were interested in as you were the assistant to this professor?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.694769425803411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left there, I believe you went to University of Chicago."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did for a year. I took the courses that the first year student needed to be a PhD. After that I was approached by the University of Illinois to become an assistant to a professor, which meant that I would have 30 students and meet with them every day between his lectures and give a wider view to his lecture, and give a short test to them for 15 minutes. That was supposed to prepare them in a better way for the subject. That was very uneventful. No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time were you able to pursue other science aspects of what you were interested in as you were the assistant to this professor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most of my assistance was this work with the 30 students. He had about three people in the same position working with approximately 30 people. The students liked this. Very shortly we had [US] Force people taking the courses. Particularly they were chosen to take a medical degree [MD], and for the time that they were at the University of Illinois we gave them all the science courses that they needed to have before they could start work on a MD. For that, they had to promise to stay in the Air Force a certain number of years. I think that was three.\\n\\n That was a good thing for people who really wanted to be an MD. They were hardworking students. They didn’t have much time to work because they were being drilled and lectured to, but there were some very good students. The thing that was unequal was that there were people who had graduated with an AB degree [Bachelor of Arts] or whatever they had, and there were people who had finished high school and that was all. But they worked hard. If they missed a month of not making passing grades, they were sent away to the war, so they were very frightened people. One of them said to me one day, “If I took you out for dinner would you give me a better grade?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that didn’t work, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.141690649140013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Most of my assistance was this work with the 30 students. He had about three people in the same position working with approximately 30 people. The students liked this. Very shortly we had [US] Force people taking the courses. Particularly they were chosen to take a medical degree [MD], and for the time that they were at the University of Illinois we gave them all the science courses that they needed to have before they could start work on a MD. For that, they had to promise to stay in the Air Force a certain number of years. I think that was three.\\n\\n That was a good thing for people who really wanted to be an MD. They were hardworking students. They didn’t have much time to work because they were being drilled and lectured to, but there were some very good students. The thing that was unequal was that there were people who had graduated with an AB degree [Bachelor of Arts] or whatever they had, and there were people who had finished high school and that was all. But they worked hard. If they missed a month of not making passing grades, they were sent away to the war, so they were very frightened people. One of them said to me one day, “If I took you out for dinner would you give me a better grade?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that didn’t work, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t work. No. He knew it and looked as if, “Well, I tried.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you were an exception even at that time. Were you the only female assistant that the professor had in this field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You earned your PhD from University of Illinois. Can you talk about your work for your thesis? I understand it had a lot to do with radioactive fallout."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.82410072126668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t work. No. He knew it and looked as if, “Well, I tried.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you were an exception even at that time. Were you the only female assistant that the professor had in this field?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You earned your PhD from University of Illinois. Can you talk about your work for your thesis? I understand it had a lot to do with radioactive fallout."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was to work with radon, which is not a manmade element, but is found in nature. It is a gas, and it deteriorates through certain other molecules. Some of those were solids at ordinary temperature, so the question was, “What happens to these?” Do they agglomerate? Which they might. Some of them stay as a gas, which probably they did. My study was with an electron microscope. The material which was going to be looked at in the microscope had to be deposited on a slide so that you had a sample. After much much trying to get what I hoped were the particles in focus, I could see the shadows of them as I moved the microscope around. It was at least three weeks of not knowing what I was seeing, until one night I saw this in the microscope, and was the happiest person in the whole place. The next step involved looking at different times to see if there were any changes.\\n\\n The particles did agglomerate, then they crystallized, so this was an indication that you would have particles big enough to be blown around by air. Later that was called fallout. I went back to the University of Chicago and talked with some of the people who were studying a similar thing; similar but not with an electron microscope. So far they had decided that they had no indication of what was really happening. They were very glad to look at the research work that I had done. Some of them thought it was significant, and some didn’t of course, but in a way I think it encouraged all of us that this was a very vital barrier to get over, so that’s the way I got back to the University of Chicago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you choose this subject to do your work in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.812562265234272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was able to rent a very nice room and the two people who lived there were very nice people. There were only about five people who lived there, so it was quiet. They gave me the living room. It was nicely furnished. The only thing was you had to open a couch to sleep at night, but that was okay. They worked for a club, and the man did the cooking, and the woman I guess did the hard work. Frequently they’d bring me something very nice to eat or drink from there, and put it in my room, and I’d find it. That was very nice. Another time, they were having trouble with a vacuum cleaner. I said, “I think I could fix that for you.” So I did. It was a very minor problem. They wanted to give me a drink of 20-year-old whiskey.\\n\\n These things are good to remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you fixed that vacuum cleaner and realized that you had all these mechanical abilities as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to have certain mechanical abilities. I had to be able to blow glass, and I had to be able to fix pumps and things like that, but for many people I did do these simple things. Of course they all thought it was beyond them to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a payment, 20-year-old whiskey. Did you stay with Pioneering? You just stayed with them for about a year or so, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you went to the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.791735850260302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to have certain mechanical abilities. I had to be able to blow glass, and I had to be able to fix pumps and things like that, but for many people I did do these simple things. Of course they all thought it was beyond them to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a payment, 20-year-old whiskey. Did you stay with Pioneering? You just stayed with them for about a year or so, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you went to the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oak Ridge [Laboratory, Tennessee]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again you were in radiochemical research. Is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.879706500289224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you went to the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oak Ridge [Laboratory, Tennessee]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again you were in radiochemical research. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about working in that environment? Now you’re in a different state, of course more south, so it’s a different environment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.755229444765803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oak Ridge [Laboratory, Tennessee]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again you were in radiochemical research. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about working in that environment? Now you’re in a different state, of course more south, so it’s a different environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just married. It was kind of a culture shock, Tennessee. Everybody lived in an apartment or a house that was built for the people who worked there. It was chosen by some way, but it included how many children you had, and what your status was. But [US Navy] Captain [Hyman G.] Rickover, perhaps you’ve heard of him, had a house for the bachelors. My husband had been one of those that lived in that house. Captain Rickover made it possible for us to move in immediately. Otherwise you had to wait in line, so he proved his power. That was very fine. He wasn’t as mean as people have said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure you got to know him on a different level than his sailors did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.728032716406448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about working in that environment? Now you’re in a different state, of course more south, so it’s a different environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just married. It was kind of a culture shock, Tennessee. Everybody lived in an apartment or a house that was built for the people who worked there. It was chosen by some way, but it included how many children you had, and what your status was. But [US Navy] Captain [Hyman G.] Rickover, perhaps you’ve heard of him, had a house for the bachelors. My husband had been one of those that lived in that house. Captain Rickover made it possible for us to move in immediately. Otherwise you had to wait in line, so he proved his power. That was very fine. He wasn’t as mean as people have said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure you got to know him on a different level than his sailors did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there at the same time as your husband. Did you work on the same projects?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.586703018229386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just married. It was kind of a culture shock, Tennessee. Everybody lived in an apartment or a house that was built for the people who worked there. It was chosen by some way, but it included how many children you had, and what your status was. But [US Navy] Captain [Hyman G.] Rickover, perhaps you’ve heard of him, had a house for the bachelors. My husband had been one of those that lived in that house. Captain Rickover made it possible for us to move in immediately. Otherwise you had to wait in line, so he proved his power. That was very fine. He wasn’t as mean as people have said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure you got to know him on a different level than his sailors did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there at the same time as your husband. Did you work on the same projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I worked in a chemistry laboratory. He was there to learn what was learned during the war. He worked at NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics] at that time, and he was selected by them to come for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading that one of the everyday processes that you did, you had to wear protective clothing because of what you were working with. Could you talk about your work there and why you had to wear that clothing, and what that was all about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.318558909143762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were there at the same time as your husband. Did you work on the same projects?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I worked in a chemistry laboratory. He was there to learn what was learned during the war. He worked at NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics] at that time, and he was selected by them to come for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading that one of the everyday processes that you did, you had to wear protective clothing because of what you were working with. Could you talk about your work there and why you had to wear that clothing, and what that was all about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was working on triple fission of uranium. The bomb was made with one break, and presumably there could be a third one in which there’d be new products, and those could chemically be identified. So it was a matter of trying with analytical chemistry to find if there were any new products.\\n\\n I worked for a very nice section head who was anxious to help with different methods that would be—to his belief—a good test of whether it really existed. I didn’t finish that work in the time that I was there, but I learned that the man assigned to it after I left had found indications of triple fission. That was a very interesting program.\\n\\n I don’t know whether you remember that one of the things that the Oak Ridge Laboratory had was a pile—as it was called—where you could artificially cause a material to become radioactive. I used that and thought how much money had been spent, and here just a chemist in the laboratory had it at her fingertips. It was exciting. It was really very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a brand-new concept in America, wasn’t it, to do this laboratory in a peacetime effort?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.131732121270847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I worked in a chemistry laboratory. He was there to learn what was learned during the war. He worked at NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics] at that time, and he was selected by them to come for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading that one of the everyday processes that you did, you had to wear protective clothing because of what you were working with. Could you talk about your work there and why you had to wear that clothing, and what that was all about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was working on triple fission of uranium. The bomb was made with one break, and presumably there could be a third one in which there’d be new products, and those could chemically be identified. So it was a matter of trying with analytical chemistry to find if there were any new products.\\n\\n I worked for a very nice section head who was anxious to help with different methods that would be—to his belief—a good test of whether it really existed. I didn’t finish that work in the time that I was there, but I learned that the man assigned to it after I left had found indications of triple fission. That was a very interesting program.\\n\\n I don’t know whether you remember that one of the things that the Oak Ridge Laboratory had was a pile—as it was called—where you could artificially cause a material to become radioactive. I used that and thought how much money had been spent, and here just a chemist in the laboratory had it at her fingertips. It was exciting. It was really very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a brand-new concept in America, wasn’t it, to do this laboratory in a peacetime effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was much talk of course that it should be stopped because the work wasn’t going to be useful to anyone, which wasn’t true. You might not have an idea of what it would be useful for, but something would turn up after you had opened the new door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it was a peacetime effort, did you have long hours working there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.813035690300942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was working on triple fission of uranium. The bomb was made with one break, and presumably there could be a third one in which there’d be new products, and those could chemically be identified. So it was a matter of trying with analytical chemistry to find if there were any new products.\\n\\n I worked for a very nice section head who was anxious to help with different methods that would be—to his belief—a good test of whether it really existed. I didn’t finish that work in the time that I was there, but I learned that the man assigned to it after I left had found indications of triple fission. That was a very interesting program.\\n\\n I don’t know whether you remember that one of the things that the Oak Ridge Laboratory had was a pile—as it was called—where you could artificially cause a material to become radioactive. I used that and thought how much money had been spent, and here just a chemist in the laboratory had it at her fingertips. It was exciting. It was really very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a brand-new concept in America, wasn’t it, to do this laboratory in a peacetime effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was much talk of course that it should be stopped because the work wasn’t going to be useful to anyone, which wasn’t true. You might not have an idea of what it would be useful for, but something would turn up after you had opened the new door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it was a peacetime effort, did you have long hours working there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn’t work except during the hours of 9:00 to 5:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you like living in that part of Tennessee, newly married?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.570039655889936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. There was much talk of course that it should be stopped because the work wasn’t going to be useful to anyone, which wasn’t true. You might not have an idea of what it would be useful for, but something would turn up after you had opened the new door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it was a peacetime effort, did you have long hours working there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn’t work except during the hours of 9:00 to 5:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you like living in that part of Tennessee, newly married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked it all right. But that brings up the thought of what we were warned against. Don’t drive on any road that isn’t paved. You’ll probably be met by a shotgun and a man ready to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might have found a few moonshiners in the backwoods. You think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.41115517321104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You couldn’t work except during the hours of 9:00 to 5:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you like living in that part of Tennessee, newly married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked it all right. But that brings up the thought of what we were warned against. Don’t drive on any road that isn’t paved. You’ll probably be met by a shotgun and a man ready to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might have found a few moonshiners in the backwoods. You think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure. It was a dry county, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had found some research about the dresses; you had to wear a specific type of gown every day. Is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.345727970234488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I liked it all right. But that brings up the thought of what we were warned against. Don’t drive on any road that isn’t paved. You’ll probably be met by a shotgun and a man ready to use it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might have found a few moonshiners in the backwoods. You think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure. It was a dry county, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had found some research about the dresses; you had to wear a specific type of gown every day. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. It was a prisoner’s gown. It was light blue and it came just to your knee. It was made like a balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t very fashionable, was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.384142189149431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure. It was a dry county, by the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had found some research about the dresses; you had to wear a specific type of gown every day. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. It was a prisoner’s gown. It was light blue and it came just to your knee. It was made like a balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t very fashionable, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t very fashionable. I also had to wear lead-toed shoes, which were not very comfortable. The reason for that was that if you were working with a radioactive material in that you shouldn’t touch it in any fashion; that you had to build a sort of house of lead bricks. That had been considered to be a safety risk so severe that you had to wear lead-toed shoes. Wasn’t any fun, any of those things, but you had to do it. It just became routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to build on the work that you had done at the university so that you were learning more about the subject you were interested in as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.53793576572159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct. It was a prisoner’s gown. It was light blue and it came just to your knee. It was made like a balloon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn’t very fashionable, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t very fashionable. I also had to wear lead-toed shoes, which were not very comfortable. The reason for that was that if you were working with a radioactive material in that you shouldn’t touch it in any fashion; that you had to build a sort of house of lead bricks. That had been considered to be a safety risk so severe that you had to wear lead-toed shoes. Wasn’t any fun, any of those things, but you had to do it. It just became routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to build on the work that you had done at the university so that you were learning more about the subject you were interested in as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A lot of work that had been done, nobody knew about it, so it was a very good education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left there, is that when you went on to the Argonne National Laboratory in Chicago?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.819928628579545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn’t very fashionable. I also had to wear lead-toed shoes, which were not very comfortable. The reason for that was that if you were working with a radioactive material in that you shouldn’t touch it in any fashion; that you had to build a sort of house of lead bricks. That had been considered to be a safety risk so severe that you had to wear lead-toed shoes. Wasn’t any fun, any of those things, but you had to do it. It just became routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to build on the work that you had done at the university so that you were learning more about the subject you were interested in as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A lot of work that had been done, nobody knew about it, so it was a very good education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left there, is that when you went on to the Argonne National Laboratory in Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Again I worked with uranium. This time it was to see if you could build with uranium a special kind of molecule which had attached not by the usual binding but by more or less an accident. Some of those that showed up would be like acetylene for the solvents that you might use. While I was there, again it wasn’t a finished job. Another person took it on. I know that it was successful in some ways, and they actually put my name on a paper, so that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to publish at all at these first jobs, or were you just building up that experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.24436514286616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. A lot of work that had been done, nobody knew about it, so it was a very good education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left there, is that when you went on to the Argonne National Laboratory in Chicago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Again I worked with uranium. This time it was to see if you could build with uranium a special kind of molecule which had attached not by the usual binding but by more or less an accident. Some of those that showed up would be like acetylene for the solvents that you might use. While I was there, again it wasn’t a finished job. Another person took it on. I know that it was successful in some ways, and they actually put my name on a paper, so that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to publish at all at these first jobs, or were you just building up that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t possible at that time. It was just an education that you were getting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A big one. After your time there, I believe it was in 1949 you went to Lewis Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio] to become part of the NACA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.604850158740177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Again I worked with uranium. This time it was to see if you could build with uranium a special kind of molecule which had attached not by the usual binding but by more or less an accident. Some of those that showed up would be like acetylene for the solvents that you might use. While I was there, again it wasn’t a finished job. Another person took it on. I know that it was successful in some ways, and they actually put my name on a paper, so that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to publish at all at these first jobs, or were you just building up that experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t possible at that time. It was just an education that you were getting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A big one. After your time there, I believe it was in 1949 you went to Lewis Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio] to become part of the NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Now that’s where my husband had come from. The Argonne trip was that he wanted to do some research there. They let him have another year. He brought back a lot of information and big lectures around the lab. So it was useful quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was fortunate that because of your background, being married, they found a space in the laboratory so that you were able to do your work as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.116500176377974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn’t possible at that time. It was just an education that you were getting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A big one. After your time there, I believe it was in 1949 you went to Lewis Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio] to become part of the NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Now that’s where my husband had come from. The Argonne trip was that he wanted to do some research there. They let him have another year. He brought back a lot of information and big lectures around the lab. So it was useful quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was fortunate that because of your background, being married, they found a space in the laboratory so that you were able to do your work as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very good. Of course my husband was known in these places, and it wasn’t as if I had filled in an application for a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the work that you did for the NACA. The Center had just changed its philosophy and its research goals to investigate all types of propulsion."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.796111307086637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Now that’s where my husband had come from. The Argonne trip was that he wanted to do some research there. They let him have another year. He brought back a lot of information and big lectures around the lab. So it was useful quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was fortunate that because of your background, being married, they found a space in the laboratory so that you were able to do your work as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very good. Of course my husband was known in these places, and it wasn’t as if I had filled in an application for a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the work that you did for the NACA. The Center had just changed its philosophy and its research goals to investigate all types of propulsion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you were assigned to the Fuels and Combustion Division, and did some studies on flames."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.66234589676293, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was very good. Of course my husband was known in these places, and it wasn’t as if I had filled in an application for a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the work that you did for the NACA. The Center had just changed its philosophy and its research goals to investigate all types of propulsion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe you were assigned to the Fuels and Combustion Division, and did some studies on flames."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you assigned that job or was that your study—you wanted to do, flames?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.451830356291616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were more like a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in the late ’40s, early ’50s. How did you travel to Europe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on the [RMS] Queen Elizabeth the first time. I traveled on a large oceangoing vessel. I was first class when I made the first trip. I guess it was like you read about. I did enjoy it. I read some books, and sat on the deck, and didn’t go swimming because it was too cold. We were taking the northern route."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were selected for that $10,000 grant from the Rockefeller Foundation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in Europe for almost a year."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.61314484032402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on the [RMS] Queen Elizabeth the first time. I traveled on a large oceangoing vessel. I was first class when I made the first trip. I guess it was like you read about. I did enjoy it. I read some books, and sat on the deck, and didn’t go swimming because it was too cold. We were taking the northern route."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were selected for that $10,000 grant from the Rockefeller Foundation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in Europe for almost a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that experience of being in the midst of those scientists there, and then working together to exchange your information."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.794005975708664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that experience of being in the midst of those scientists there, and then working together to exchange your information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was actually working in a laboratory there. It was free radicals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not ions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One of the students who was working for his PhD had set up, made all the equipment that was needed. I was to work with him, and he was from Germany. He’d been an [Waffen] SS [Nazi military force] person. At first it was a little bit frightening because we had a lot of batteries together which gave a big jolt of electricity, and I just thought what if he would turn them on when I—that’s a terrible way to feel. But in those days we were frightened of Germans. He was as hungry as I was. The food was rationed, a lot of it. You didn’t have but one egg a week. Sugar was rationed and butter was rationed. I lived in an international house. They rationed it right down to you. You had so much sugar and so much butter to eat. They had the egg for the week on Sunday evening. So that was some celebration, but they insisted upon making Toad in a Hole. Do you know what that is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll have to share that with me. No I don’t."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.771117750787404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was actually working in a laboratory there. It was free radicals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not ions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. One of the students who was working for his PhD had set up, made all the equipment that was needed. I was to work with him, and he was from Germany. He’d been an [Waffen] SS [Nazi military force] person. At first it was a little bit frightening because we had a lot of batteries together which gave a big jolt of electricity, and I just thought what if he would turn them on when I—that’s a terrible way to feel. But in those days we were frightened of Germans. He was as hungry as I was. The food was rationed, a lot of it. You didn’t have but one egg a week. Sugar was rationed and butter was rationed. I lived in an international house. They rationed it right down to you. You had so much sugar and so much butter to eat. They had the egg for the week on Sunday evening. So that was some celebration, but they insisted upon making Toad in a Hole. Do you know what that is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ll have to share that with me. No I don’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a hardboiled egg which has been covered on the outside with sausage meat and recooked so that the sausage meat was done, and inside was the toad, which was a hardboiled egg.\\n\\n There were other strange foods too. They liked to serve hare that had been hanging for some time to be, I guess, better by their taste than if it were eaten after it was first killed. So we were rationed. Things were hard to get. We had three meals a day. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you spend most of your time in Cambridge? Or were you in different labs as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.71742932195976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a hardboiled egg which has been covered on the outside with sausage meat and recooked so that the sausage meat was done, and inside was the toad, which was a hardboiled egg.\\n\\n There were other strange foods too. They liked to serve hare that had been hanging for some time to be, I guess, better by their taste than if it were eaten after it was first killed. So we were rationed. Things were hard to get. We had three meals a day. That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you spend most of your time in Cambridge? Or were you in different labs as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to other laboratories to see what they were doing, and to be entertained by them, which turned out to be very nice. Mostly they were people whose work I had read in papers they had published. Sometimes they would be ones who had come to the Combustion Institute for their annual meeting, so I knew the people to some extent. They were very friendly and wanted to show me things. Cathedrals. Going to one of the meetings with the government, it was good to see also. I walked a lot.\\n\\n Everybody walks or rides a bicycle, or did then. I had injured a knee in high school doing field hockey. I just didn’t think I could go very far on a bicycle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share some of your recollections of what the countryside looked like in those countries that you visited? It was soon after the war had ended that you were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it was. Rural districts, they seemed to go on as they’d gone on for years and years, but in London and places you still saw the remnants of houses and buildings of many types that they hadn’t repaired or rebuilt. It wasn’t as bad as I expected it to be because they had done a lot of work, but you could see really it’s demolished. It must have been very horrible living through the war."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you remember about going to Paris? That must have been an exciting time to be able to go to France."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.11644111002969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dr. Simon, what you were working on then to separate the oil from the sands, is that somewhat of what oil companies are doing now? What I think they refer to as fracking? Is that something different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s a different thing entirely. It starts with shale, not with the oil sand. The shale is supposed to give up the oil if you break it all up. But as you know, a lot of states and cities and places are fighting because they don’t want the pollution and they don’t want the chance of getting cancer. That’s two reasonable things to think about. Also recently it has been found that there isn’t as much oil shale as was originally predicted. I think the prediction was 100 years for supplying the United States. Now probably it’s 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a big difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I have to think it was a big difference moving from the Dallas area up to Massachusetts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.351601233366322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that’s a different thing entirely. It starts with shale, not with the oil sand. The shale is supposed to give up the oil if you break it all up. But as you know, a lot of states and cities and places are fighting because they don’t want the pollution and they don’t want the chance of getting cancer. That’s two reasonable things to think about. Also recently it has been found that there isn’t as much oil shale as was originally predicted. I think the prediction was 100 years for supplying the United States. Now probably it’s 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a big difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I have to think it was a big difference moving from the Dallas area up to Massachusetts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, indeed it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you and your husband make a decision that this was where you were going to be for a while because of the opportunities?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 13.724001370407025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A big difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I have to think it was a big difference moving from the Dallas area up to Massachusetts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, indeed it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you and your husband make a decision that this was where you were going to be for a while because of the opportunities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about that transition and starting a new job with this company. For instance, were you able to pick the area that you wanted to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.675966118590193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But it was a promotion, and that always makes one happy when you’re promoted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your boss was not of a technical or scientific nature, so you were the one that these ideas filtered through before they got to him. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have many proposals that came through on a routine basis? How did you make up your mind which ones you felt were good, in the interest of the company? How did you discard the rest or make them a lower priority?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I asked the head of the engineering department what they believed was good about the work that was going on. Then from my education and what I could decide to do, as I came in, helped me to see whether this was just being written for the money’s sake or whether there was experience and a real interest in what was being proposed.\\n\\n I learned that some companies went against the rules by having the proposals, for example to the Navy, worked on before they knew what the Navy was going to ask. It was specifically so that it would help them to get the proposal. That was not supposed to be allowed, but people talked about it frankly. I think I prevented that from happening. If you were caught it would not be so good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Avco was quite a conglomerate at the time, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.30662902065577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have many proposals that came through on a routine basis? How did you make up your mind which ones you felt were good, in the interest of the company? How did you discard the rest or make them a lower priority?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I asked the head of the engineering department what they believed was good about the work that was going on. Then from my education and what I could decide to do, as I came in, helped me to see whether this was just being written for the money’s sake or whether there was experience and a real interest in what was being proposed.\\n\\n I learned that some companies went against the rules by having the proposals, for example to the Navy, worked on before they knew what the Navy was going to ask. It was specifically so that it would help them to get the proposal. That was not supposed to be allowed, but people talked about it frankly. I think I prevented that from happening. If you were caught it would not be so good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Avco was quite a conglomerate at the time, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had diverse types of projects that were coming through for your review. Is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.007365578506411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I asked the head of the engineering department what they believed was good about the work that was going on. Then from my education and what I could decide to do, as I came in, helped me to see whether this was just being written for the money’s sake or whether there was experience and a real interest in what was being proposed.\\n\\n I learned that some companies went against the rules by having the proposals, for example to the Navy, worked on before they knew what the Navy was going to ask. It was specifically so that it would help them to get the proposal. That was not supposed to be allowed, but people talked about it frankly. I think I prevented that from happening. If you were caught it would not be so good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Avco was quite a conglomerate at the time, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had diverse types of projects that were coming through for your review. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The only ones that came through were the scientific ones.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we took a break we were starting to talk about your role at Avco."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.563739531673789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had diverse types of projects that were coming through for your review. Is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The only ones that came through were the scientific ones.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we took a break we were starting to talk about your role at Avco."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Before that I said I never worked for the Atomic Energy Commission. That is not true that I didn’t. They had the laboratories of Oak Ridge and Argonne, but I didn’t realize now today that I had had to get different secret clearances and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a secret clearance for working for NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.181932812970877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The only ones that came through were the scientific ones.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we took a break we were starting to talk about your role at Avco."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Before that I said I never worked for the Atomic Energy Commission. That is not true that I didn’t. They had the laboratories of Oak Ridge and Argonne, but I didn’t realize now today that I had had to get different secret clearances and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a secret clearance for working for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I had top secret."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you’ve almost always worked under a very secluded environment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.868814236634308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Before that I said I never worked for the Atomic Energy Commission. That is not true that I didn’t. They had the laboratories of Oak Ridge and Argonne, but I didn’t realize now today that I had had to get different secret clearances and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a secret clearance for working for NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I had top secret."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you’ve almost always worked under a very secluded environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s why a lot of the work didn’t come out to people who would like to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you exchange information with other people like you that were of the same type of clearance? Were you able to talk with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.632015818482564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I had top secret."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you’ve almost always worked under a very secluded environment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s why a lot of the work didn’t come out to people who would like to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you exchange information with other people like you that were of the same type of clearance? Were you able to talk with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes you could. Not just the two of you, but in a group, and when some of these meetings were held. You’d have a submeeting with people whose work you knew about but had never had a chance to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dr. Simon, when you went to Avco, I think you mentioned that you didn’t work in a laboratory. After you were there for a little while you became the technical assistant to the boss. Then at some point you became a vice president."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.480017576091738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. That’s why a lot of the work didn’t come out to people who would like to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you exchange information with other people like you that were of the same type of clearance? Were you able to talk with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes you could. Not just the two of you, but in a group, and when some of these meetings were held. You’d have a submeeting with people whose work you knew about but had never had a chance to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dr. Simon, when you went to Avco, I think you mentioned that you didn’t work in a laboratory. After you were there for a little while you became the technical assistant to the boss. Then at some point you became a vice president."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how your job changed and what some of the duties were that you were doing as you moved through the company and became more high level in the management structure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.422241751213042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes you could. Not just the two of you, but in a group, and when some of these meetings were held. You’d have a submeeting with people whose work you knew about but had never had a chance to talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dr. Simon, when you went to Avco, I think you mentioned that you didn’t work in a laboratory. After you were there for a little while you became the technical assistant to the boss. Then at some point you became a vice president."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us how your job changed and what some of the duties were that you were doing as you moved through the company and became more high level in the management structure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I moved to the highest position in the corporation that I reached, I had to move to New York. Our headquarters were there at that time. My job with the president of the company then was somewhat similar to the one that I had had before, except that he got a lot more people anxious to talk about work they wanted to sell. He would talk to them first and then they would come to me.\\n\\n You couldn’t help but laugh with some people that thought they had the world’s best program. Usually they were very flawed, and they really didn’t have what they thought they had. One I remember said that he had this fluid that you could put on your car windows and the frozen part would go away immediately and you could see just as clearly as if it had never been there. I started asking him how he mixed this whatever it was, and how he controlled it. Well, those questions had no answers; he was as far from production as you could possibly be. So that one was out.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think when we stopped this last time we were talking about some of the ideas that people brought to Avco. We were talking too about you had gone to New York where you were vice president. You had told us about someone who came in and wanted to put the fluid on the windshields. Do you remember any more? Maybe one that worked that you really were proud of bringing through Avco?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.397829322485235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I moved to the highest position in the corporation that I reached, I had to move to New York. Our headquarters were there at that time. My job with the president of the company then was somewhat similar to the one that I had had before, except that he got a lot more people anxious to talk about work they wanted to sell. He would talk to them first and then they would come to me.\\n\\n You couldn’t help but laugh with some people that thought they had the world’s best program. Usually they were very flawed, and they really didn’t have what they thought they had. One I remember said that he had this fluid that you could put on your car windows and the frozen part would go away immediately and you could see just as clearly as if it had never been there. I started asking him how he mixed this whatever it was, and how he controlled it. Well, those questions had no answers; he was as far from production as you could possibly be. So that one was out.\\n\\n [pause]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think when we stopped this last time we were talking about some of the ideas that people brought to Avco. We were talking too about you had gone to New York where you were vice president. You had told us about someone who came in and wanted to put the fluid on the windshields. Do you remember any more? Maybe one that worked that you really were proud of bringing through Avco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, mostly they were so small that they would not have impacted Avco at all. What they were doing was trying to begin to get some other areas of work that were not under the government. But the way the government money left us, there was a long period when nothing was coming in. Then they sold out. Not while I was there. The various divisions were purchased by companies that were doing work in their area, so it worked out for the people very well, as well as it could I think. They took over our retirement and paid it to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s good news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is good news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we talk about Avco’s and your contributions to the project for the reentry for the spacecraft?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.553143691650261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, mostly they were so small that they would not have impacted Avco at all. What they were doing was trying to begin to get some other areas of work that were not under the government. But the way the government money left us, there was a long period when nothing was coming in. Then they sold out. Not while I was there. The various divisions were purchased by companies that were doing work in their area, so it worked out for the people very well, as well as it could I think. They took over our retirement and paid it to this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s good news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is good news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we talk about Avco’s and your contributions to the project for the reentry for the spacecraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Please tell us how that happened."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6546924122089015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. It did make an enormous effect on the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also transfer that technology for ballistic missiles as well? Did you also work on those projects for some of the nose cones and nose caps and different types of pieces?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were also talking about always working under a secret classification. Were you ever concerned about your safety, working so closely to those types of projects during the height of the Cold War?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t. I wasn’t really worried about that. But when I got on the board of the paper company out in California, they were warning us, if we were driving from work to wherever we lived not to take the same route every day, but to change often the way that we went.\\n\\n Once I had a telephone call from I guess something called the Arab something or other. He said he had sent letters to the President and to the Secretary of Defense and all these people and that we weren’t fulfilling what we should do. Why he called me I don’t know, but it was startling.\\n\\n Then he wrote a letter and he said, “I’m in the library in New York, and this is where I’m writing this letter.” So he was not real with it, but anyway it frightens you. As I drove home, I always looked to see if somebody was behind me or following me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were with Avco for about 30 years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.394102680232113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were also talking about always working under a secret classification. Were you ever concerned about your safety, working so closely to those types of projects during the height of the Cold War?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t. I wasn’t really worried about that. But when I got on the board of the paper company out in California, they were warning us, if we were driving from work to wherever we lived not to take the same route every day, but to change often the way that we went.\\n\\n Once I had a telephone call from I guess something called the Arab something or other. He said he had sent letters to the President and to the Secretary of Defense and all these people and that we weren’t fulfilling what we should do. Why he called me I don’t know, but it was startling.\\n\\n Then he wrote a letter and he said, “I’m in the library in New York, and this is where I’m writing this letter.” So he was not real with it, but anyway it frightens you. As I drove home, I always looked to see if somebody was behind me or following me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were with Avco for about 30 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a long time to stay in one place."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.215669644702347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t. I wasn’t really worried about that. But when I got on the board of the paper company out in California, they were warning us, if we were driving from work to wherever we lived not to take the same route every day, but to change often the way that we went.\\n\\n Once I had a telephone call from I guess something called the Arab something or other. He said he had sent letters to the President and to the Secretary of Defense and all these people and that we weren’t fulfilling what we should do. Why he called me I don’t know, but it was startling.\\n\\n Then he wrote a letter and he said, “I’m in the library in New York, and this is where I’m writing this letter.” So he was not real with it, but anyway it frightens you. As I drove home, I always looked to see if somebody was behind me or following me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were with Avco for about 30 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a long time to stay in one place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the job kept changing and projects kept changing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.128521827447052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a long time to stay in one place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the job kept changing and projects kept changing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kept changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kept learning more."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.031690919385614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the job kept changing and projects kept changing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kept changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kept learning more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very glad that when my husband died, I had 10 years more to work there; that my life wasn’t totally interrupted, and that I could continue to save money for the days that I got old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worked out well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.035212132650681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I kept changing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kept learning more."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very glad that when my husband died, I had 10 years more to work there; that my life wasn’t totally interrupted, and that I could continue to save money for the days that I got old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Worked out well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s worked out well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You two worked at the same place for a long time. But not always."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.68544707734652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s worked out well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You two worked at the same place for a long time. But not always."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Both of us thought it would be better if we worked at different places, but the way it started is that the only thing I could do was to follow him. Maybe not follow, but together decide that I would go. The only time I was away was when I went to England. He was supposed to come and meet me during one of the two-week vacations they had in Cambridge. Just before, he was accused—this was the time when people were being accused—and he was accused of going to a dance that was sponsored by communists. That’s a great thing. He was with the NACA then. They didn’t take it to heart. They fought it. Finally the conclusion was that he was 95 percent cleared. But that didn’t bother anybody.\\n\\n Isn’t that a terrible way to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course that whole thing was a scandalous thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A terrible time in American history [McCarthy Era].\\n\\n You were able to come home one time during your year in England, isn’t that correct? I think you came home for Christmas."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.650496752607244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. Both of us thought it would be better if we worked at different places, but the way it started is that the only thing I could do was to follow him. Maybe not follow, but together decide that I would go. The only time I was away was when I went to England. He was supposed to come and meet me during one of the two-week vacations they had in Cambridge. Just before, he was accused—this was the time when people were being accused—and he was accused of going to a dance that was sponsored by communists. That’s a great thing. He was with the NACA then. They didn’t take it to heart. They fought it. Finally the conclusion was that he was 95 percent cleared. But that didn’t bother anybody.\\n\\n Isn’t that a terrible way to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course that whole thing was a scandalous thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A terrible time in American history [McCarthy Era].\\n\\n You were able to come home one time during your year in England, isn’t that correct? I think you came home for Christmas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did come home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made that boat trip twice then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.722774169563605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course that whole thing was a scandalous thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A terrible time in American history [McCarthy Era].\\n\\n You were able to come home one time during your year in England, isn’t that correct? I think you came home for Christmas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did come home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made that boat trip twice then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did. I came home because I was getting a letter about once every day from my husband. He was really depressed. He didn’t know if he was going to be out of a job, and nobody else would have hired him. So anyway it turned out not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. It’s reassuring to know he worked with people who believed in him to fight for his expertise."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.914193521737339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did come home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made that boat trip twice then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did. I came home because I was getting a letter about once every day from my husband. He was really depressed. He didn’t know if he was going to be out of a job, and nobody else would have hired him. So anyway it turned out not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. It’s reassuring to know he worked with people who believed in him to fight for his expertise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent a long time in Massachusetts. Is that where your home was for a while, you and your husband’s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.126881690819264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did. I came home because I was getting a letter about once every day from my husband. He was really depressed. He didn’t know if he was going to be out of a job, and nobody else would have hired him. So anyway it turned out not too bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good. It’s reassuring to know he worked with people who believed in him to fight for his expertise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent a long time in Massachusetts. Is that where your home was for a while, you and your husband’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was there I guess until the ’70s. He had developed a heart problem so that he only served as a consultant to a few places. Then one day he had a heart attack and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a loss. You spent so many years together working in the same location, but not doing the same thing. Did you feel like you had a professional competition or more of a professional partnership?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.474312989799182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent a long time in Massachusetts. Is that where your home was for a while, you and your husband’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was there I guess until the ’70s. He had developed a heart problem so that he only served as a consultant to a few places. Then one day he had a heart attack and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a loss. You spent so many years together working in the same location, but not doing the same thing. Did you feel like you had a professional competition or more of a professional partnership?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A partnership. Somebody once started that business of saying, “they are competitive.” Well, what they really should have said was that we were working for “companies that were competitive.” But of course when you read it, it didn’t come out that way. So that’s followed me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started out, were there many places for you as a female scientist to have been able to be employed? Was there a barrier against you because you were female, or did people just want to hire good scientists, chemists?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.971458877554648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He was there I guess until the ’70s. He had developed a heart problem so that he only served as a consultant to a few places. Then one day he had a heart attack and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a loss. You spent so many years together working in the same location, but not doing the same thing. Did you feel like you had a professional competition or more of a professional partnership?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A partnership. Somebody once started that business of saying, “they are competitive.” Well, what they really should have said was that we were working for “companies that were competitive.” But of course when you read it, it didn’t come out that way. So that’s followed me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started out, were there many places for you as a female scientist to have been able to be employed? Was there a barrier against you because you were female, or did people just want to hire good scientists, chemists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I didn’t know if there was a barrier. Even when I graduated with my PhD, I went to three different companies, and every one of them offered me something either I liked or didn’t like. So I didn’t feel that. But there was affirmative action. That was really important for women. When they made the reports, they had one person in a high place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When I was looking through some information, I read that you gave a report at a conference held in 1964; you reported on the First International Conference on Women in Science and Engineering. Do you remember going to that [international] conference and how that conference came about? Were you involved in making that happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.742354637333712, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting. It really was to me particularly since I had not spoken to these people, but I had had letters from them and in some cases phone calls. I expected to meet them when they came to the conference.\\n\\n One night each of us in the New York Society of Women Engineers section invited a few to a small dinner someplace. That was very nice. They were to wear the costumes of their country if they wanted to. I had one group, and it worked very well. We were living in the Cornell Club building. My husband became a member of the Cornell Club, so I had use of the dining room. There’s a dining room for women and a dining room for men. All my guests were women of course. They didn’t know that the dining room was a place where men didn’t come. But that was a nice dining room. It was a brand-new building. We were the first people to move in.\\n\\n Our furniture didn’t all get in till midnight that night. The man who ran it was from Germany I think. His wife was also. That night at midnight she brought us a beautiful cake, so we celebrated together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. It was a long way from when you moved to New York for DuPont [Pioneer Research] in the room with the couch that folded out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. It was a long way from that. We had a balcony over three rooms, so we really had a real view of the other buildings and out toward the river. It was a very nice place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it. If it’s okay, I’m going to ask Jennifer if she’s got a question for you as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.269282930370791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was exciting. It really was to me particularly since I had not spoken to these people, but I had had letters from them and in some cases phone calls. I expected to meet them when they came to the conference.\\n\\n One night each of us in the New York Society of Women Engineers section invited a few to a small dinner someplace. That was very nice. They were to wear the costumes of their country if they wanted to. I had one group, and it worked very well. We were living in the Cornell Club building. My husband became a member of the Cornell Club, so I had use of the dining room. There’s a dining room for women and a dining room for men. All my guests were women of course. They didn’t know that the dining room was a place where men didn’t come. But that was a nice dining room. It was a brand-new building. We were the first people to move in.\\n\\n Our furniture didn’t all get in till midnight that night. The man who ran it was from Germany I think. His wife was also. That night at midnight she brought us a beautiful cake, so we celebrated together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. It was a long way from when you moved to New York for DuPont [Pioneer Research] in the room with the couch that folded out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. It was a long way from that. We had a balcony over three rooms, so we really had a real view of the other buildings and out toward the river. It was a very nice place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it. If it’s okay, I’m going to ask Jennifer if she’s got a question for you as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought of several, Dr. Simon. I was curious. We shared with you some of the materials that we had pulled. What did you think of the media coverage and their interest in your career?\n\nThe Saturday Evening Post did the article on you [in September 1959]. What did you think about these writers who wanted to come talk to you about your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.854758811523101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. It was a long way from that. We had a balcony over three rooms, so we really had a real view of the other buildings and out toward the river. It was a very nice place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it. If it’s okay, I’m going to ask Jennifer if she’s got a question for you as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought of several, Dr. Simon. I was curious. We shared with you some of the materials that we had pulled. What did you think of the media coverage and their interest in your career?\n\nThe Saturday Evening Post did the article on you [in September 1959]. What did you think about these writers who wanted to come talk to you about your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it made my husband very angry. He talked to his good friend from NACA. He said, “If they don’t call you a communist or a criminal, you’re all right.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was so concerned about that possibility?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.505287568359001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought of several, Dr. Simon. I was curious. We shared with you some of the materials that we had pulled. What did you think of the media coverage and their interest in your career?\n\nThe Saturday Evening Post did the article on you [in September 1959]. What did you think about these writers who wanted to come talk to you about your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it made my husband very angry. He talked to his good friend from NACA. He said, “If they don’t call you a communist or a criminal, you’re all right.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was so concerned about that possibility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t think he was. Maybe he didn’t like the competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not. But did you see yourself as unique in that time period?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.228097298176667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it made my husband very angry. He talked to his good friend from NACA. He said, “If they don’t call you a communist or a criminal, you’re all right.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was so concerned about that possibility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t think he was. Maybe he didn’t like the competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not. But did you see yourself as unique in that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn’t meet anybody like me. It was really prefeminist time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that there was hostility in the workforce when you started? In the late ’40s and ’50s they were encouraging women to stay home and raise babies, and not really work or go into fields such as science. Was there hostility towards women that you found?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.920108109085186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t think he was. Maybe he didn’t like the competition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not. But did you see yourself as unique in that time period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn’t meet anybody like me. It was really prefeminist time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that there was hostility in the workforce when you started? In the late ’40s and ’50s they were encouraging women to stay home and raise babies, and not really work or go into fields such as science. Was there hostility towards women that you found?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, because during the war all the women were being asked to do something. Rosie the Riveter, and that kind of thing. There was an anxiety to have women to use in the workforce. I don’t think there were too many times when people knew me that they felt any bad feelings about what I had done. My mother-in-law was sorry I hadn’t had any children. Maybe my parents were too. But it wasn’t in the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were writing a new book.\n\nDid you work with other female engineers or scientists, or were you pretty much the only woman in the company?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.689009010094651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn’t meet anybody like me. It was really prefeminist time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that there was hostility in the workforce when you started? In the late ’40s and ’50s they were encouraging women to stay home and raise babies, and not really work or go into fields such as science. Was there hostility towards women that you found?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, because during the war all the women were being asked to do something. Rosie the Riveter, and that kind of thing. There was an anxiety to have women to use in the workforce. I don’t think there were too many times when people knew me that they felt any bad feelings about what I had done. My mother-in-law was sorry I hadn’t had any children. Maybe my parents were too. But it wasn’t in the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were writing a new book.\n\nDid you work with other female engineers or scientists, or were you pretty much the only woman in the company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only woman except for the secretaries. I had a woman secretary. Somebody suggested I ought to have a man secretary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would your husband have thought of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.543343344549612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, because during the war all the women were being asked to do something. Rosie the Riveter, and that kind of thing. There was an anxiety to have women to use in the workforce. I don’t think there were too many times when people knew me that they felt any bad feelings about what I had done. My mother-in-law was sorry I hadn’t had any children. Maybe my parents were too. But it wasn’t in the book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were writing a new book.\n\nDid you work with other female engineers or scientists, or were you pretty much the only woman in the company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only woman except for the secretaries. I had a woman secretary. Somebody suggested I ought to have a man secretary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would your husband have thought of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but I wouldn’t have liked that either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any women’s organizations or groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.159270382832901, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only woman except for the secretaries. I had a woman secretary. Somebody suggested I ought to have a man secretary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would your husband have thought of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but I wouldn’t have liked that either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any women’s organizations or groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I belonged to the Society of Women Engineers. The other societies, like the American Chemical Society and the Society for Aeronautics and Astronautics, that was more what I was doing. I served on the board of that for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made a number of presentations and speeches in your life. Are there any that stick out in your memory as those that are more special than others?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.621411536481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but I wouldn’t have liked that either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you belong to any women’s organizations or groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I belonged to the Society of Women Engineers. The other societies, like the American Chemical Society and the Society for Aeronautics and Astronautics, that was more what I was doing. I served on the board of that for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made a number of presentations and speeches in your life. Are there any that stick out in your memory as those that are more special than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the one that sticks out in my mind is the one that I gave at Missouri State for the graduates in the summertime. It was very interesting. I gave a very short speech, and there were many who said, “You said what you wanted to say, and it was so much better than sitting there and hearing somebody [else].” We had a very terrible storm during the time, I was giving it. I had expected to wear a robe of course, but it was so hot that everybody was taking off their robes. So they were not going to appear that way.\\n\\n Well, I hadn’t really thought about my dress, but I had on a sleeveless navy blue linen dress. That’s what I wore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us how the workplace changed over the years? You started working right after the war, and then you were working for so long [afterwards]. Tell us how things changed in terms of dress, or the type of people you worked with and attitudes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0237905960900004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I belonged to the Society of Women Engineers. The other societies, like the American Chemical Society and the Society for Aeronautics and Astronautics, that was more what I was doing. I served on the board of that for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You made a number of presentations and speeches in your life. Are there any that stick out in your memory as those that are more special than others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the one that sticks out in my mind is the one that I gave at Missouri State for the graduates in the summertime. It was very interesting. I gave a very short speech, and there were many who said, “You said what you wanted to say, and it was so much better than sitting there and hearing somebody [else].” We had a very terrible storm during the time, I was giving it. I had expected to wear a robe of course, but it was so hot that everybody was taking off their robes. So they were not going to appear that way.\\n\\n Well, I hadn’t really thought about my dress, but I had on a sleeveless navy blue linen dress. That’s what I wore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us how the workplace changed over the years? You started working right after the war, and then you were working for so long [afterwards]. Tell us how things changed in terms of dress, or the type of people you worked with and attitudes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let’s start with dress. In came the casual dress for certain days. That was not around, so that was a big change in the environment. As a matter of fact, in some of the science and laboratory places they never dress other than in a casual way. You just couldn’t go around in a suit and tie. So that was true, but it wasn’t of course anything the secretaries or anybody like that would have worn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did attitudes change over time? Did you notice a lot more women coming into the workplace?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.531441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a very nice thing. I also served on committees, one of them was to decide what technologies should not be sent overseas. That was an interesting one too. Then another of them was to look at the holding property, which was chemicals that could be used for making other things. Of course it’s gasoline. But several stockpiles were really out of tune with what was needed, so we made recommendations on that. We heard a lot of people speak about what they thought should be done.\\n\\n It was just a waste of money to hold those things if they weren’t going to be used, so they revamped the whole materials stored in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Speaking of those types of committees, I found a list. One was the Department of Commerce Committee for National Bureau of Standards. Now that was a very unique one to add to the list. What did you do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Bureau of Standards had a very wide range of programs. They didn’t have much to do with measurements and the thing you think they would. They had some advances in radiochemistry and other such things. The point was to see whether it was balanced research work that they were doing, how it fitted in with their primary job relations and they separated. The department no longer had say, atomic energy programs such as that. They went to this new laboratory.\\n\\n I think it was a very good thing. It was too widespread. You’ve got to have some nucleus of scientists who are doing the same kind of problems in a field that becomes known then that that’s a place to go and to get a lot of information. So every one I was on turned out to make suggestions of reorganizations and such as that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a pattern there, and all very different but yet somewhat related."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. I think it was the time after the war when you needed to look at what had been going on because everybody was focused on materials for war and there wasn’t, thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you retired from Avco, but did you continue working?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Bureau of Standards had a very wide range of programs. They didn’t have much to do with measurements and the thing you think they would. They had some advances in radiochemistry and other such things. The point was to see whether it was balanced research work that they were doing, how it fitted in with their primary job relations and they separated. The department no longer had say, atomic energy programs such as that. They went to this new laboratory.\\n\\n I think it was a very good thing. It was too widespread. You’ve got to have some nucleus of scientists who are doing the same kind of problems in a field that becomes known then that that’s a place to go and to get a lot of information. So every one I was on turned out to make suggestions of reorganizations and such as that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a pattern there, and all very different but yet somewhat related."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. I think it was the time after the war when you needed to look at what had been going on because everybody was focused on materials for war and there wasn’t, thank goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you retired from Avco, but did you continue working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the age of 65, being an officer of the company, I had to retire. The policy had been that you could work till you were 70 or something. I think I would have gone ahead, but it was just a new phase of my life. We had planned to come to North Carolina, and the reasons were just as good for me as they were for the two of us, and I’m very glad that I came here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You chose a beautiful piece of America to live.\n\nThe only other question I thought about is, you worked in industry and you also worked for the government. Would you talk about the differences between those two different types of jobs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:222", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not working for an industry, you have much more freedom to decide what you would like to do. You would like to tie it in somewhat with the laboratory and certainly with what the laboratory was supposed to do, but not the same as in industry when you are essentially assigned a program to do. You may suggest other things later, but the first thing that you do is to spend a year or two following the assignments. At DuPont the reason that I had gone there in the first place was it was one of the only companies that let you advance on two ways. One of those was being a scientist and you didn’t have to get a management job to get higher wages, and then the management side. Many a person has given up real talent to go over and become a manager. That isn’t quite right. They were the only company I knew at the time who used that double ladder. But I wasn’t there long enough to have it affect me.\\n\\n One of my colleagues there was from the University of Illinois. After I left, we stayed in contact through Christmas cards, things like that. One day he wrote on a card, “It’s taken 10 years here to complete the work that you started.” I was very very pleased that they went on with that work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left a lot of foundations for people to build upon. It’s a nice legacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A nice legacy. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you look back on your years of contributions to industry and government, are there some things that we didn’t talk about that you can remember you’d like for us to know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. In industry you are more likely to be asked to leave than in a government laboratory. You have to really do something terrible in a government laboratory to be asked to leave. Just even a misunderstanding can cause you to lose your job in industry, if you can’t get along with your boss. Then his story is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s the only one that people listen to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A nice legacy. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you look back on your years of contributions to industry and government, are there some things that we didn’t talk about that you can remember you’d like for us to know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. In industry you are more likely to be asked to leave than in a government laboratory. You have to really do something terrible in a government laboratory to be asked to leave. Just even a misunderstanding can cause you to lose your job in industry, if you can’t get along with your boss. Then his story is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s the only one that people listen to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. You don’t get a chance to defend yourself. It wouldn’t go over anyway if you tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your favorite time to be working? The decades that you worked, things were so different from one to the other. That constant change."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:226", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. In industry you are more likely to be asked to leave than in a government laboratory. You have to really do something terrible in a government laboratory to be asked to leave. Just even a misunderstanding can cause you to lose your job in industry, if you can’t get along with your boss. Then his story is good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s the only one that people listen to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. You don’t get a chance to defend yourself. It wouldn’t go over anyway if you tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your favorite time to be working? The decades that you worked, things were so different from one to the other. That constant change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were different because I worked at the front edge. Everyone was at that stage with practically everything, so it’s really hard to say why that was so. The war had a great deal to do with it because there was a total revision of what was important after the war. Where people could look and say, “Oh this is going to have breakthroughs and we’re going to move fast.” I guess that’s what all of us wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading that one paper you gave, I believe it was to the AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics], was about innovation. Did you have a great belief that as Americans we need to be innovators?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:228", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. You don’t get a chance to defend yourself. It wouldn’t go over anyway if you tried."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your favorite time to be working? The decades that you worked, things were so different from one to the other. That constant change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were different because I worked at the front edge. Everyone was at that stage with practically everything, so it’s really hard to say why that was so. The war had a great deal to do with it because there was a total revision of what was important after the war. Where people could look and say, “Oh this is going to have breakthroughs and we’re going to move fast.” I guess that’s what all of us wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember reading that one paper you gave, I believe it was to the AIAA [American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics], was about innovation. Did you have a great belief that as Americans we need to be innovators?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the paper was about was how I had found innovation better if you paired people who were in the same field, but they had gone to different universities and they had a different look. In the materials division, I had the two people work on a program that they together had proposed. The papers that they wrote on that brought them personal fame. Of course they both left, but I had written a paper on it I guess. When I moved to Greenwich, there was another company there whose chief scientist leader had read the paper. He learned that I had moved there, so he wanted me to come and talk about it. He said, “It’s the first paper on management that I ever understood.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I found it very interesting as I read the [1959] article in the Saturday Evening Post about you and Sidney living in your home in Massachusetts, and on Sunday mornings you would have a gathering of people that were sharing ideas over meals. I just thought that was such a wonderful atmosphere."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What the paper was about was how I had found innovation better if you paired people who were in the same field, but they had gone to different universities and they had a different look. In the materials division, I had the two people work on a program that they together had proposed. The papers that they wrote on that brought them personal fame. Of course they both left, but I had written a paper on it I guess. When I moved to Greenwich, there was another company there whose chief scientist leader had read the paper. He learned that I had moved there, so he wanted me to come and talk about it. He said, “It’s the first paper on management that I ever understood.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I found it very interesting as I read the [1959] article in the Saturday Evening Post about you and Sidney living in your home in Massachusetts, and on Sunday mornings you would have a gathering of people that were sharing ideas over meals. I just thought that was such a wonderful atmosphere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was limited in scope because two MDs that worked for Avco saw all these people who should make things faster and more innovative than they had. One of them was about the method of feeding people who needed to get their nourishment and couldn’t get it from eating meals.\\n\\n One of the problems when they were trying to push it through [the tube] was that there wasn’t enough weight on the end of it to work properly. So a couple of people came up with ideas that sounded good. One of the days that we were getting together, one of the two doctors called up and said, “I’ve got a dead body.” He meant he was going to bring a study corpse like medical students and show people exactly what he wanted to do, and he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have had some very unique conversations on those Sunday mornings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you worked on reviewing ideas, but did you have your own set of inventions or your own set of projects that you saw come to fruition?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:234", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was limited in scope because two MDs that worked for Avco saw all these people who should make things faster and more innovative than they had. One of them was about the method of feeding people who needed to get their nourishment and couldn’t get it from eating meals.\\n\\n One of the problems when they were trying to push it through [the tube] was that there wasn’t enough weight on the end of it to work properly. So a couple of people came up with ideas that sounded good. One of the days that we were getting together, one of the two doctors called up and said, “I’ve got a dead body.” He meant he was going to bring a study corpse like medical students and show people exactly what he wanted to do, and he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have had some very unique conversations on those Sunday mornings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you worked on reviewing ideas, but did you have your own set of inventions or your own set of projects that you saw come to fruition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course the heat shield was one that lots of people had to work on before it was a success. But that did please me very much to see that that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we can end there, knowing that that contribution made such a difference to all those spacecraft that came through re-entry."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00936:236", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you worked on reviewing ideas, but did you have your own set of inventions or your own set of projects that you saw come to fruition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course the heat shield was one that lots of people had to work on before it was a success. But that did please me very much to see that that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we can end there, knowing that that contribution made such a difference to all those spacecraft that came through re-entry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much. We really enjoyed learning so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00404:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.04, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are. I do have copies of documents."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be willing to share those with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t have a problem sharing them. The group that came out looking for historical preservation was led by Mr. Mario Busacca out of KSC. I provided them with a lot of the preliminary documents in developing WSSH. Environmental assessments, some of those kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could we get copies as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We can send you copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have anything for Mr. Mitchell? You have answered all my questions. I didn’t ask too many, because you just went through and answered everything I had."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00404:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.6, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don’t have a problem sharing them. The group that came out looking for historical preservation was led by Mr. Mario Busacca out of KSC. I provided them with a lot of the preliminary documents in developing WSSH. Environmental assessments, some of those kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could we get copies as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We can send you copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have anything for Mr. Mitchell? You have answered all my questions. I didn’t ask too many, because you just went through and answered everything I had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoy taking tours. Every so often I would take co-op students, secretaries, people that would not get the opportunity to go to WSSH—I’d take them over there on a special tour. It takes an hour to drive over, an hour to drive back, and two hours to do WSSH, and then another hour to go over to Holloman and show them the facilities over there, eat lunch and then [return]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a full day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00404:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. We can send you copies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have anything for Mr. Mitchell? You have answered all my questions. I didn’t ask too many, because you just went through and answered everything I had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoy taking tours. Every so often I would take co-op students, secretaries, people that would not get the opportunity to go to WSSH—I’d take them over there on a special tour. It takes an hour to drive over, an hour to drive back, and two hours to do WSSH, and then another hour to go over to Holloman and show them the facilities over there, eat lunch and then [return]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a full day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they get a full day, 7:00 to 7:30 until 1:30 to 2:30. And I’m constantly just running through everything that we have going on. Having been the environmental coordinator responsible for all environmental work at WSMR, White Sands Missile Range, I was able to get a lot of historic information. We’d throw all that in there.\\n\\n There are some videos and pictures, some storyboards that were put together for WSSH for special events, that I don’t know if they would be beneficial for you or not. I don’t even know how we can get you visual without taking a picture of them. That’ll take a little while to get that accomplished. A couple of them were just recently done, and our photo guys up in the photo lab may be able to get you electronic copies of them, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, if you can give us their names."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00404:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I enjoy taking tours. Every so often I would take co-op students, secretaries, people that would not get the opportunity to go to WSSH—I’d take them over there on a special tour. It takes an hour to drive over, an hour to drive back, and two hours to do WSSH, and then another hour to go over to Holloman and show them the facilities over there, eat lunch and then [return]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a full day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they get a full day, 7:00 to 7:30 until 1:30 to 2:30. And I’m constantly just running through everything that we have going on. Having been the environmental coordinator responsible for all environmental work at WSMR, White Sands Missile Range, I was able to get a lot of historic information. We’d throw all that in there.\\n\\n There are some videos and pictures, some storyboards that were put together for WSSH for special events, that I don’t know if they would be beneficial for you or not. I don’t even know how we can get you visual without taking a picture of them. That’ll take a little while to get that accomplished. A couple of them were just recently done, and our photo guys up in the photo lab may be able to get you electronic copies of them, I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, if you can give us their names."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moira [J.] Romansky, David [W.] Huskey. David is the photo guy. Moira is the pubs [publications] leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, thank you so much for taking your time this morning. We certainly appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 81.49087269393652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Jim [James] Le Blanc, who’s over in the EA [Engineering and Development Directorate office] now. In fact, he’s on old roomie of mine. We roomed together a while. In fact, it was sort of ironic. He was on the suit, an Apollo suit, and he had even made the corrections himself. We had two pipes coming out of the facility environmental control system. Now, anytime you have a pipe that’s going to have a hose on it, it has a little bead on it. So you put the hose over it and put a clamp on it, and if you try to pull it off, the clamp will get stopped by this little bead that’s on the hose. Didn’t have it in those days, it was a smooth bore. So he was moving around in the chamber and pulled the hose off. He said he could feel the saliva bubbling in his mouth. Either it was air coming out or it could have been even blood before he passed out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely a scary moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. But it was kind of ironic. He was the one that put on the clamps anyway, so he kind of did it to himself. But it was something that if you can survive your lessons, you can learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Well, fortunately there weren’t any fatalities."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not that we had. We had some close calls. We had a guy get burned pretty severely in April of 1980."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve heard that one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 50.543470853653595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. We had a leak in the coolant loop. This is one I wouldn’t have told, but now since you brought it up, I’ll tell it. So the idea was we’re going to send up a coolant loop repair kit. We’re going to pierce, just like you do an air-conditioning system. We’ve got this valve. You put it on the line and seal it and then screw it in, and you’ll puncture it and then you’ll let flow come in from another way. So we’ll replenish the coolant loop.\\n\\n Here is my contribution: I said, “Well, wait a minute. What if this recharge kit leaks?”\\n\\n The guy says, “Well, we don’t think it’s going to.”\\n\\n “Yes, we need something to check it.” So we came up with the coolant loop recharge kit leakage test fixture, which was my brainchild, my contribution. Somebody else asks the question, “Well, what if your leakage fixture leaks?”\\n\\n “Well, no, we don’t think it’s going to.”\\n\\n Anyway, make a long story short, we come up with the coolant loop recharge fixture, the coolant loop recharge fixture leakage kit, send them up there. They put it on, and, sure enough, when they check for leakage, it shows that somehow this assembly leaks.\\n\\n Somebody say, “Well, let’s try it without the coolant loop fixture leakage test fixture.” So they did, and it worked. They recharged it. So I ended up getting an award for the coolant loop recharge kit. Somebody forgot that, no, his was the test fixture, his was the piece that didn’t work. But I very graciously, I didn’t want to make look bad, so I accepted the award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t recall coming across that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little-known fact. You can see why I didn’t want to bring that up, but thank you so much –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—for enriching this oral history with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we can change that part to some ellipses."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 71.2291889249407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Clearing some empty space out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll note that one as a primary contribution."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. When I retired from NASA, my friends at Hamilton [Sunstrand] gave me a nice big picture, and on that they’ve got part of the drawings from the ion exchange bed, just as kind of a reminder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Make sure your ego doesn’t get too big."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I understand it works like that a lot over there.\\n\\n We’ve kind of moved around a little bit from Mercury to Gemini to Skylab to Shuttle. We didn’t talk a whole lot about Apollo, though."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 48.02919714791783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See? All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did tell me about one time he was participating in some sort of experiment where he had to save his urine in a big jar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. We went out, he and I had, again, with the ladies. So we had our ice chest with the beer in it and our ice chest with Joe’s urine jug. [Laughter] Again, the stress of remaining cool under all these circumstances, I’m telling you, project this image of coolness like “I’ve got it under control. This is normal for me,” it’s tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s nice to see that you managed to keep a lot of composure during these events. But we’re actually about out of tape on our first tape, so if we can pause for a minute just to swap that out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—principles and still have as much fun and as much color and the personalities."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 40.53827270123044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. I think it was when it was going to stop venting or start venting or something. Yes. If you get a hold of Larry Bell –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was telling us that story, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did Larry tell you some of his own stories?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think he told anything about on himself, anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.82030300136716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. I think it was when it was going to stop venting or start venting or something. Yes. If you get a hold of Larry Bell –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was telling us that story, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did Larry tell you some of his own stories?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think he told anything about on himself, anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell you about our thing we put together for Brooks Air Force Base [San Antonio, Texas]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, where they had the fire?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 47.57811444596351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did Larry tell you some of his own stories?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think he told anything about on himself, anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell you about our thing we put together for Brooks Air Force Base [San Antonio, Texas]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, where they had the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had the fire?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did mention that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 52.864571606626114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tell you about our thing we put together for Brooks Air Force Base [San Antonio, Texas]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, where they had the fire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had the fire?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did mention that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were going through, building that thing up we were going to automobile junkyards and getting heater cores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, he left this part of the story out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 55.405079562917905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had the fire?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he did mention that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were going through, building that thing up we were going to automobile junkyards and getting heater cores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, no, he left this part of the story out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We finally ended up with what was a Big Joe heat exchanger out of one of the rockets, but at first we were putting something together, we were going and getting junk radiator cores or heater cores out of junkyards, putting that together.\\n\\n Oh, Larry was something. He was the greatest storyteller. He had more stories about his days back as a farm boy, all that. You’ll have to get him back.\\n\\n He was my boss on the Gemini, on the Ed White system, and then after that, too, before he moved over into the Project Office. Actually, that Gemini IV, being leader of that really started him up in his career. He did so well on that, it gave people an idea of what he could do, and I think it really paved the way for his career advancement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m hoping to get him back to get talk to me a little bit, so we can ask him some more about this."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 45.709162442989424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. It’s hard to be cool, but you’ve got to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m glad you volunteered that story."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Better me tell it than someone else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. Well, see, now, we can ask other people about these and see what their recollections are, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t remember who was there. I can’t remember who was there. Walt [Walter W.] Guy, he was there, in fact. He’s somebody you ought to talk to. He’s been around longer than I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As part of that, I guess I’m just thinking of the time period that you were just talking about, part of the post-Challenger standdown, one of the things they did was stop use of the manned maneuvering unit [MMU], which I think it was something you had some involvement with."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 48.56573604776602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Better me tell it than someone else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right. Well, see, now, we can ask other people about these and see what their recollections are, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t remember who was there. I can’t remember who was there. Walt [Walter W.] Guy, he was there, in fact. He’s somebody you ought to talk to. He’s been around longer than I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As part of that, I guess I’m just thinking of the time period that you were just talking about, part of the post-Challenger standdown, one of the things they did was stop use of the manned maneuvering unit [MMU], which I think it was something you had some involvement with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. The MMU, that was great. The story of the MMU started with a guy named Ed [Charles E.] Whitsett [Jr.]. One of the most phenomenal people I’ve ever met. It’s just unfortunate that’s he gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t he just recently pass away?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.844992082403824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they built it in. It was a pawl and then it was kind of a ratchet-type arrangement, but you had to get it hooked first and then ratchet it shut. That was the thing Tom couldn’t do. He couldn’t repeatedly get it down far enough to get it hooked and then you could ratchet it shut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, did you as someone who had involvement with the environmental control system, the life support stuff, take any heat because of the problems they were having with the EVA, the overheating, the fogging of the visor, that sort of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. In the Gemini EVAs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was my system. What it was, what we found out was that the actual rates, the metabolic rates that the guys were experiencing were up in the neighborhood of 3,000 BTUs [British Thermal Units] an hour. We were sized for about a thousand an hour, max. Just due to the fact that they were working so much harder, the suit was not really designed for that type of stuff. They were working so much harder. It was taking out a lot of heat, but it just wasn’t taking out enough. That’s what really told us, hey, we need some sort of more aggressive cooling system, and that’s where the liquid cooling garment really proved its worth. You’re just limited in the amount of heat you can take off with a gas-cooling-type system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So would you attribute that to just not understanding how much heat they were going to be producing or inadequate training or just the hardware wasn’t good enough?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.210525150000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Through this June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you’re going to retire again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I’m going to hang it up. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For good or are you going somewhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I may do a little consulting or insulting, whatever. Whatever is around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they’ve had quit a history themselves through both the environmental control system, as you’ve mentioned, and with the suits as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.900583500000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I’m going to hang it up. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For good or are you going somewhere else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I may do a little consulting or insulting, whatever. Whatever is around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they’ve had quit a history themselves through both the environmental control system, as you’ve mentioned, and with the suits as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know how much involvement you had with them when they were the prime contractor for the Apollo suit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.667315000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I may do a little consulting or insulting, whatever. Whatever is around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they’ve had quit a history themselves through both the environmental control system, as you’ve mentioned, and with the suits as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know how much involvement you had with them when they were the prime contractor for the Apollo suit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really much with them, except, as I say, they were the bad guys. I really didn’t get associated with them until after Apollo. I got associated with some advanced work and then since 1977 with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of advanced work was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.63035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know how much involvement you had with them when they were the prime contractor for the Apollo suit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really much with them, except, as I say, they were the bad guys. I really didn’t get associated with them until after Apollo. I got associated with some advanced work and then since 1977 with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of advanced work was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lithium peroxide system which was a system which would absorb CO2 and give off oxygen. It was a fun little program, but it was something that probably not too practical from a system standpoint. It worked good, but you had to have certain pretty well prescribed conditions for it to work under, temperatures, thermal-type conditions. You also had to precondition it with some CO2. In other words, if you started trying to use it, it would starve you of oxygen before it would start giving off enough. So you’d have to have another oxygen tank to supplement it, so that starts making the system complicated. So we ended up passing it up. But it was fun. It was a fun system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement in choosing the shuttle EMU?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.8115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really much with them, except, as I say, they were the bad guys. I really didn’t get associated with them until after Apollo. I got associated with some advanced work and then since 1977 with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of advanced work was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a lithium peroxide system which was a system which would absorb CO2 and give off oxygen. It was a fun little program, but it was something that probably not too practical from a system standpoint. It worked good, but you had to have certain pretty well prescribed conditions for it to work under, temperatures, thermal-type conditions. You also had to precondition it with some CO2. In other words, if you started trying to use it, it would starve you of oxygen before it would start giving off enough. So you’d have to have another oxygen tank to supplement it, so that starts making the system complicated. So we ended up passing it up. But it was fun. It was a fun system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement in choosing the shuttle EMU?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I was part of the source board on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00416:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 19.15, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I was part of the source board on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can tell you about the train chart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You to have get the pictures. Ellington Air Force Base, the old wooden barracks, built in the forties or so, creaky wooden floors, inadequate air-conditioning, Houston summer, and interminable meetings on evaluating the AiResearch proposal and the Hamilton proposal.\\n\\n We had two source boards going on at the same time, for the Shuttle EMU and for the portable oxygen system. Both contractors were bidding on them, had the same contractors bidding on both. I was working on both source boards, so going back and forth.\\n\\n There was railroad tracks run out in front of Ellington, as you probably know. Be in some of these meetings and I mean it would be so hot we finally had a fan going and just have the windows open. Guys would notice the train going by and then maybe another train going by. So one guy off in one of the rooms started keeping a chart of trains going south and trains going north, keeping count of them. So it got to be sort of a real game with us, to keep track of the trains. So I can remember being there one day in a meeting. We were all sort of just dying. It was real hot, and this guy was droning on and on. All at once a train. Everybody perked up. North or south? Everybody was worried about getting that train on the chart. Nobody worried about what the guy was saying. We finally came to the conclusion after gathering data for several months they’re making trains in Galveston and shipping them north. That was our conclusion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly had the evidence to support that, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.542384988951422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We weren’t really ever going to build the service module in house, because there were two study contracts to industry. There was going to be the downselection to a single contractor. We were looking at design trades to see how the requirements that were being set in place drove the design and then also gave the government our own reference mission to compare against what the contractor was giving us. There wasn’t going to be a time, as much as I would have loved to have done it, to build the whole service module ourselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the two companies that were working on the designs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course as usual, it’s a group of companies. One side was Lockheed Martin, who eventually won the contract, and then the other side was a combined Boeing and Northrop Grumman team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Contracts play a big role in everything that NASA does, for sure. You talked a little bit about heritage hardware in terms of that OMS engine. Were there other ways that the service module reflected Apollo or Shuttle hardware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As we traded the propulsion system and control of the vehicle, it became clear we were going to need three levels of thrust. One of the levels of thrust was about 110 pounds of force, and that fit what’s used today for pushing satellites into geosynchronous orbit, a 100-pound thruster that was used on Apollo actually, same design. It of course had evolved since the Apollo time but traced its roots back to the heritage of Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could tell me what were the initial requirements for the service module. You’ve alluded to them, but we haven’t put them on the recording yet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.111447108056936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other than devastating me personally at that point? It affected us quite a bit. We had large roles on the Ares I and Ares V. Then of course in the end Orion survived, but it still went through a tumultuous time. We downsized our contractor workforce quite a bit. We moved people around within the Center for the launch vehicle work, and we shut down some of the facilities that had been built to support the Ares mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ouch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a tough day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In addition to that were you guys still working? I remember for a while there, especially being at JSC, everybody was in shock as well. I think everyone was surprised. There was still this fight. Congress was like, “No. We can’t get rid of it.” There was still money to be spent. Were you guys still doing some Constellation work at that point until things really got ironed out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Orion still continued to press on. We were still supporting Orion, still getting the facility ready out at Plum Brook. The Ares stuff took a little while to close out, so we were still doing some things that were still funded as part of that Constellation Program closeout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went on to become Deputy and then Director of the Center. What role did you have with Orion once you became a manager for the Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.976150498834754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was at Glenn and not at JSC, there were a lot of planning meetings, attending the planning meetings in person, as opposed to being back at Glenn being an active member of the team face to face. The face-to-face element is really important when you’re trying to build trust, so that was where the time investment for me came from. It’s planning meetings from requirements development. It’s budget meetings. The number of budget meetings we had I probably don’t want to really think about how many, as budgets were changing and the Program was developing and we were going through some of the early milestones in any project development cycle.\\n\\n It was really like I was on the team, like I was a JSC employee. Maybe the way I should say it is I spent a week at Glenn every month as opposed to three weeks at JSC. It was taking things forward. I talked about the fairings before, the pieces of structure that fall off intentionally as you’re going uphill. It was working through that design, making sure that we got the community on board with that was the way to go. It was a lot of bringing Glenn into the fold of human spaceflight by showing my commitment to the Project by being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously you had a deputy that was back at Glenn who was keeping you apprised of things going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and then I would dial back into things at Glenn. The inverse scenario of being back at Glenn. I’d dial back into things there. Or I’d try and kick the team off on Monday and go to JSC for two days, three days, and then come back and spend the balance of the week with the team at Glenn. We had a lot of people at Glenn going down to JSC too for the same reasons I just gave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a big challenge, probably didn’t see your family very much at that point I would think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, now I’m at Headquarters, and my family is back in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Oh, that’s tough."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.7512783320386145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and then I would dial back into things at Glenn. The inverse scenario of being back at Glenn. I’d dial back into things there. Or I’d try and kick the team off on Monday and go to JSC for two days, three days, and then come back and spend the balance of the week with the team at Glenn. We had a lot of people at Glenn going down to JSC too for the same reasons I just gave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a big challenge, probably didn’t see your family very much at that point I would think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, now I’m at Headquarters, and my family is back in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Oh, that’s tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s a little bit challenging right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine. It’s tough living in DC."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.501420368931794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, now I’m at Headquarters, and my family is back in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my gosh. Oh, that’s tough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it’s a little bit challenging right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine. It’s tough living in DC."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, those were long days. I’m sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you didn’t interrupt at all. You did mention something though that I wanted to ask about. That was budget. I know that Orion has a very tight budget. Can you talk about issues of affordability and moving towards a lower cost development model and how that was handled and implemented from your perspective?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.026444899915795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, those were long days. I’m sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you didn’t interrupt at all. You did mention something though that I wanted to ask about. That was budget. I know that Orion has a very tight budget. Can you talk about issues of affordability and moving towards a lower cost development model and how that was handled and implemented from your perspective?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The initial part will be editorial; the other part will be fact. The editorial side for me is it’s crazy the way we do things in this Agency: changing budget three times a year, four times a year, living on continuing resolutions. Having to change contracts, to change funding levels, to push back milestones. To me what drove cost into our system is the inefficiency of our government and Congress and the administration fighting with each other all the time. So that’s the editorial part.\\n\\n The fact part for me is we had initially a pretty well gold-plated set of requirements that we needed to drive down to drive cost out. I know we spent a lot of time doing that. I know the Project still works on that today, especially now that they’re getting towards production and operations.\\n\\n I think that we had to really take a look at how we did business with our contractor, Lockheed Martin. The Project spent a lot of time saying, “How can we do oversight the right way of the contractor but still have knowledge of the design, but not drive the contractor’s cost?” I’m not sure if folks have brought it up to you. There were oversight models put in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What levels of oversight and insight we had into different systems. The Project didn’t just do a blanket, “We’re going to have this many people working on every subsystem,” because eventually they’re just going to go find things they don’t like, and then that drives cost into contract changes. So the Project did a good job, I think, of applying resources to the critical areas and letting the contractor run in other areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example from the service module perspective of that gold-plated requirement and then you decided no, we need to restructure?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.53752798509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall any pushback from them, no. I don’t know that the number of crew really affects them. They’re very focused, and it’s great to learn from them and watch them. They’re very focused on the systems. Do the systems perform the way that they want them to and keep them safe?\\n\\n Now if you got to three crew versus four, I don’t know then if they have worries about “Hey, I always have to have somebody that’s my buddy,” even though Soyuz flies three, “we need to always have four. We always need to have somebody looking out for us.” I don’t know if they get to that. But I don’t recall them really having a concern with going from six to four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other significant decisions that you recall when you were working with Orion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we talked about one, the decision to go to Plum Brook I know still really makes people mad at JSC today. Even as we sit here today, there’s people, if you brought that up to them, at senior levels at JSC, that still bothers them. They still would like to see that reversed. I think that was a significant emotional event for them, and a significant decision by the Project based on the investment made at Plum Brook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could share with me how the Exploration Systems Development Division Cross-Program System Integration—that’s a mouthful—initiative impacted Orion."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow, this is a loaded question. Who put you up to this, Jen? Just kidding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the Orion folks came up with that question, I did not."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.256207389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow, this is a loaded question. Who put you up to this, Jen? Just kidding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the Orion folks came up with that question, I did not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. For me, we’re talking about significant emotional events, having lived Constellation Systems Engineering Group, which was like 400 people, I think they outnumbered the Project. What we have today just in numbers in the Cross-Program I think is better. I think the fact that Orion is now doing more of the integration helps out Orion. The problem is they’re not getting more resources to do it, so it puts additional load on the people already doing it, but they’re driving their own ship. I think we always have to be wary of going back to the Constellation days where we have 400 people doing the integration, and that just goes to no good end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too expensive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too expensive, and the anecdote I always give is I went to a Constellation meeting. Constellation had thousands of requirements. We had this meeting on a specific set of requirements, and this gentleman stood up when we talked about two of the requirements, and he said, “These are my two requirements. This is what I come to work every day to worry about. You can’t take them away.” Clearly it had driven the system too far. I don’t want to get back to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think Orion is much more flexible, able to maneuver things more easily?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.61800821, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. For me, we’re talking about significant emotional events, having lived Constellation Systems Engineering Group, which was like 400 people, I think they outnumbered the Project. What we have today just in numbers in the Cross-Program I think is better. I think the fact that Orion is now doing more of the integration helps out Orion. The problem is they’re not getting more resources to do it, so it puts additional load on the people already doing it, but they’re driving their own ship. I think we always have to be wary of going back to the Constellation days where we have 400 people doing the integration, and that just goes to no good end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Too expensive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too expensive, and the anecdote I always give is I went to a Constellation meeting. Constellation had thousands of requirements. We had this meeting on a specific set of requirements, and this gentleman stood up when we talked about two of the requirements, and he said, “These are my two requirements. This is what I come to work every day to worry about. You can’t take them away.” Clearly it had driven the system too far. I don’t want to get back to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think Orion is much more flexible, able to maneuver things more easily?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I’ve seen them do it. I’ve watched them do it. I think their fate is in their hands, which is much better than leaving it in somebody else’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example or two?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7977869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Too expensive, and the anecdote I always give is I went to a Constellation meeting. Constellation had thousands of requirements. We had this meeting on a specific set of requirements, and this gentleman stood up when we talked about two of the requirements, and he said, “These are my two requirements. This is what I come to work every day to worry about. You can’t take them away.” Clearly it had driven the system too far. I don’t want to get back to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think Orion is much more flexible, able to maneuver things more easily?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I’ve seen them do it. I’ve watched them do it. I think their fate is in their hands, which is much better than leaving it in somebody else’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example or two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think just working interface issues directly with SLS. Before, there would be an issue with the electrical interface between Orion and SLS, and Orion would have to go to somebody at Constellation systems engineering who owned that interface. That person then would get information from Ares and then feed that back to Orion. Orion would react, it’d go up to Constellation.\\n\\n Now, it’s Orion and SLS, those two people in the room trying to resolve it, directly. I think that’s much better than anybody being the arbitrator, because you can get it done faster. There’s an efficiency. I can tell the person across the table this is what I need. I can hear what they have, and we can move through that much quicker than trying to work it up and through the Constellation Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a lot of bureaucracy is what you’re describing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.997541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I’ve seen them do it. I’ve watched them do it. I think their fate is in their hands, which is much better than leaving it in somebody else’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example or two?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think just working interface issues directly with SLS. Before, there would be an issue with the electrical interface between Orion and SLS, and Orion would have to go to somebody at Constellation systems engineering who owned that interface. That person then would get information from Ares and then feed that back to Orion. Orion would react, it’d go up to Constellation.\\n\\n Now, it’s Orion and SLS, those two people in the room trying to resolve it, directly. I think that’s much better than anybody being the arbitrator, because you can get it done faster. There’s an efficiency. I can tell the person across the table this is what I need. I can hear what they have, and we can move through that much quicker than trying to work it up and through the Constellation Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like a lot of bureaucracy is what you’re describing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh, it was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have about four minutes left, and I have about seven more questions. So I guess I might have to [re-]schedule, but they wouldn’t take very much time. So I’ll schedule some more time with your admin. I can’t imagine maybe more than 20 or 30 minutes. But I wonder if we could just touch on one.\\n\\n The focus that Orion is really interested in is that successful launch of EFT-1 in spite of all of the challenges that came up over the years. I know that at that time you weren’t necessarily working in Orion, but what do you think were some of the more memorable moments or events that you recall as say Glenn was working towards that launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, those were actually done out at Lockheed Martin. We could do it at Glenn, but the test was performed at Lockheed Martin. Or they could do it at Glenn. I’m not a Glenn person anymore. I still say we. It’s only been three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you spent a lot of time out at Glenn, so I can understand that. I want to keep you on schedule. So I will contact your admin, because I’m sure you have another meeting to go to. Unless you don’t have anything on your calendar, and we can finish up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I do have another one. I’m sorry. I feel like I talked too long if you have that many questions left. I must just be droning on. I really apologize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely not. No, and actually the more information we get, the better. Like I said, we’re not looking for any sort of quote for the newspaper or just this little quip that we’re going to put on the local news: “Glenn Research Center Director says the following,” and it’s all out of context.\\n\\n This gives people the opportunity to better understand things like decision making and hardware development and things of that sort. That’s what I always tell people. People always say when I turn off the recorder, “God, I must have been boring you.” It’s like oh, no, it’s really fascinating to learn so much more about this. Because the other complication with this Project is we went out trying to find information, and it’s such a young program, such a new program, that there isn’t a lot out there that’s been documented. What has been is on social media, and that really isn’t preserved very well. All these details I think are important for the future, keeping that history of the Program alive. I will schedule probably no more than 30 minutes with your assistant. I sure appreciate your time today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you very much. I appreciate it, and you have a good rest of your day, and I’ll talk to you sometime soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully next time the phone will work. I apologize that you had to call me."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I do have another one. I’m sorry. I feel like I talked too long if you have that many questions left. I must just be droning on. I really apologize."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely not. No, and actually the more information we get, the better. Like I said, we’re not looking for any sort of quote for the newspaper or just this little quip that we’re going to put on the local news: “Glenn Research Center Director says the following,” and it’s all out of context.\\n\\n This gives people the opportunity to better understand things like decision making and hardware development and things of that sort. That’s what I always tell people. People always say when I turn off the recorder, “God, I must have been boring you.” It’s like oh, no, it’s really fascinating to learn so much more about this. Because the other complication with this Project is we went out trying to find information, and it’s such a young program, such a new program, that there isn’t a lot out there that’s been documented. What has been is on social media, and that really isn’t preserved very well. All these details I think are important for the future, keeping that history of the Program alive. I will schedule probably no more than 30 minutes with your assistant. I sure appreciate your time today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you very much. I appreciate it, and you have a good rest of your day, and I’ll talk to you sometime soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully next time the phone will work. I apologize that you had to call me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what happened. It’s no problem at all if it happens next time. I’ll just call you right back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds good, thanks so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00651:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you very much. I appreciate it, and you have a good rest of your day, and I’ll talk to you sometime soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully next time the phone will work. I apologize that you had to call me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what happened. It’s no problem at all if it happens next time. I’ll just call you right back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds good, thanks so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks, Jennifer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Bye-bye."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 36.08481127813603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was working in the Postal Service at the time that I became interested in the space program. I was a secretary. John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] flew his Mercury mission, and I stood out in a misty rain on Pennsylvania Avenue, watching him and Lyndon [B.] Johnson drive down Pennsylvania Avenue in their parade that Washington, D.C., gave to welcome him. I went back into my office and called the NASA Personnel Office and asked if they were hiring secretaries, and they said yes.\\n\\n I took my application the next morning to the personnel office, and I was on the payroll by ten o'clock. [Laughter] That was in the days when NASA was—they could do that sort of thing, you know. They were relatively new, they were adding staff, and they could hire people. Of course, it was pending a security background. But that's how I came to work for NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was in about 1962?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1962."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your first function, what area did you work at within Public Affairs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first job was not in Public Affairs. I worked for a year in the old Office of Programs, which was headed by DeMarcus [D.] Wyatt, and it was part of Dr. [Robert C.] Seamans' [Jr.] staff. They were planning the lunar missions, how to get there and what might be found once they got there. He had a staff of engineers whose job it was to work on that.\\n\\n I worked there for a year, and then I went to work in Public Affairs for Brian Duff, who was new. He had just been hired by NASA. He had been a newspaperman and he was brought in to head a section mainly of speech writers for the administrator. But we also handled the administrator's public appearances. Later, Brian then also started handling the astronauts' public appearances when they would come to Washington. So I sort of absorbed a lot of what he was doing by helping him put together these itineraries and speaking commitments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say handling the public appearances, were you in the decision-making process?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.439059609883376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started, I believe, in early September. Late August, early September of '69, which meant we all had to get our shots, up-to-date shots, and we had to get all this information put together. The State Department actually made the arrangements for the Air Force, the special air missions people to be involved, and we used the Vice President's plane for the entire trip. It was considered such good duty by the presidential pilots that they split up the task, and one group took the first half of the trip and another group met us in Rome [Italy] and finished the trip.\\n\\n We left Andrews Air Force Base [Maryland], I believe, on September the 29th, as I recall, and went to Johnson Space Center to pick up the astronauts and their wives. Bill [William] Der Bing was the JSC staff member from there. Our first official stop was in Mexico City [Mexico]. We did that all in one day. We went from Andrews Air Force Base to Johnson Space Center, then Mexico City, which was a preview of things to come. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't really have a rehearsal for any of this, huh? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just was curious. I'm backtracking. The planning stage of this, you mentioned, appeared after the mission was completed. They had not talked about this prior to the actual mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know at what point they started talking about it. My boss and Julian Sheer, who was the head of Public Affairs for NASA at that time, were the people that were involved in talking to the White House people and State Department people. The overall mission director was the deputy chief of protocol for the State Department, and I think there was a lot—of course, NASA had to agree to it before they could start any of the planning, but I'm not privy to when it actually started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their first trip was to Mexico."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.265621788759308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just was curious. I'm backtracking. The planning stage of this, you mentioned, appeared after the mission was completed. They had not talked about this prior to the actual mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know at what point they started talking about it. My boss and Julian Sheer, who was the head of Public Affairs for NASA at that time, were the people that were involved in talking to the White House people and State Department people. The overall mission director was the deputy chief of protocol for the State Department, and I think there was a lot—of course, NASA had to agree to it before they could start any of the planning, but I'm not privy to when it actually started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their first trip was to Mexico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mexico City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, it was pretty much the astronauts and their wives. Did they have any other friends or relatives?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.295135320843674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know at what point they started talking about it. My boss and Julian Sheer, who was the head of Public Affairs for NASA at that time, were the people that were involved in talking to the White House people and State Department people. The overall mission director was the deputy chief of protocol for the State Department, and I think there was a lot—of course, NASA had to agree to it before they could start any of the planning, but I'm not privy to when it actually started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their first trip was to Mexico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mexico City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, it was pretty much the astronauts and their wives. Did they have any other friends or relatives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just basically the staff members, support staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.43903924538186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mexico City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again, it was pretty much the astronauts and their wives. Did they have any other friends or relatives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just basically the staff members, support staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the support people, three astronauts and three wives. Mexico City had an airport arrival ceremony. I believe the President of Mexico was there, if I recall. Then the usual thing was, you know, the motorcade and reception hosted by the American Embassy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The countries that you decided for this trip, those were planned in advance. Did you have to make the preparations, the contacts, and so forth? Were there some countries that you had asked to go to and declined for some reason or another?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.37671027264651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just basically the staff members, support staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the support people, three astronauts and three wives. Mexico City had an airport arrival ceremony. I believe the President of Mexico was there, if I recall. Then the usual thing was, you know, the motorcade and reception hosted by the American Embassy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The countries that you decided for this trip, those were planned in advance. Did you have to make the preparations, the contacts, and so forth? Were there some countries that you had asked to go to and declined for some reason or another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. I don't know. But the State Department put the system going by contacting the American embassies in several locations. For instance, to go back to your question, I believe there was a plan for us to go to Israel and Egypt in the first proposed itinerary, but that was taken off, I presume for political reasons. I don't know. But we didn't go there.\\n\\n The proposed stops were all planned out by the State Department working with the American embassies in a lot of locations. I don't know the process they used to take different countries off and add others. I just don't know how that happened.\\n\\n Wade St. Clair, who was the mission director for State Department, would probably be able to answer that for you, because he was involved in all these meetings and discussions, and Julian Sheer, also. But Wade may have been the one primarily working on the nuts and bolts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the trip to Mexico was the first time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.529678080718345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the support people, three astronauts and three wives. Mexico City had an airport arrival ceremony. I believe the President of Mexico was there, if I recall. Then the usual thing was, you know, the motorcade and reception hosted by the American Embassy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The countries that you decided for this trip, those were planned in advance. Did you have to make the preparations, the contacts, and so forth? Were there some countries that you had asked to go to and declined for some reason or another?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. I don't know. But the State Department put the system going by contacting the American embassies in several locations. For instance, to go back to your question, I believe there was a plan for us to go to Israel and Egypt in the first proposed itinerary, but that was taken off, I presume for political reasons. I don't know. But we didn't go there.\\n\\n The proposed stops were all planned out by the State Department working with the American embassies in a lot of locations. I don't know the process they used to take different countries off and add others. I just don't know how that happened.\\n\\n Wade St. Clair, who was the mission director for State Department, would probably be able to answer that for you, because he was involved in all these meetings and discussions, and Julian Sheer, also. But Wade may have been the one primarily working on the nuts and bolts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the trip to Mexico was the first time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously you probably learned some things from the first stop, in anticipation of some of the other stops."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.579849482368324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First stop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously you probably learned some things from the first stop, in anticipation of some of the other stops."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that we were sort of overwhelmed, and I don't really think we knew what was in store for us. There were crowds, you know. There were crowds everywhere, but there was a big crowd in Mexico City, and there was a lot of interest in the astronauts. Even up to the time that we landed there, I believe there were local people trying to get onto their schedule to get them to make appearances at various things. There was, I guess, quite an effort to hold down on the number of events they could do in one day, and I believe the people in the decision-making process, Wade St. Clair and the deputy chief of protocol, probably got a taste of what it was going to be like from there on, from people wanting to get into the schedule, to get astronauts to just stop by, you know, stop by this reception. I guess from that viewpoint we learned a lot of what was about to happen to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA hadn't really had any experience prior to this. I don't recall, did the Apollo 8 crew do a world tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think. No, they didn't do a world tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just certain countries?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.53316609152036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that we were sort of overwhelmed, and I don't really think we knew what was in store for us. There were crowds, you know. There were crowds everywhere, but there was a big crowd in Mexico City, and there was a lot of interest in the astronauts. Even up to the time that we landed there, I believe there were local people trying to get onto their schedule to get them to make appearances at various things. There was, I guess, quite an effort to hold down on the number of events they could do in one day, and I believe the people in the decision-making process, Wade St. Clair and the deputy chief of protocol, probably got a taste of what it was going to be like from there on, from people wanting to get into the schedule, to get astronauts to just stop by, you know, stop by this reception. I guess from that viewpoint we learned a lot of what was about to happen to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA hadn't really had any experience prior to this. I don't recall, did the Apollo 8 crew do a world tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think. No, they didn't do a world tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just certain countries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe they just went to a few countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was pretty much new, then, in the NASA—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.592406768355957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think. No, they didn't do a world tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just certain countries?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe they just went to a few countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was pretty much new, then, in the NASA—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were gone thirty-eight days on this trip. It was the longest that any of the astronaut crews had been gone a consecutive amount of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the tour that went, did they also include the capsule and a moon rock as part of this tour, or was it just the crew members? I was mentioning to you earlier about the photographs, but that might have been separate."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.99156307595106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe they just went to a few countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was pretty much new, then, in the NASA—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were gone thirty-eight days on this trip. It was the longest that any of the astronaut crews had been gone a consecutive amount of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the tour that went, did they also include the capsule and a moon rock as part of this tour, or was it just the crew members? I was mentioning to you earlier about the photographs, but that might have been separate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is what I had in my briefing book, of what they presented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just one aircraft, though, right? They didn't have several other aircraft? It was just the Air Force?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 36.65729230661229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were gone thirty-eight days on this trip. It was the longest that any of the astronaut crews had been gone a consecutive amount of days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the tour that went, did they also include the capsule and a moon rock as part of this tour, or was it just the crew members? I was mentioning to you earlier about the photographs, but that might have been separate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is what I had in my briefing book, of what they presented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just one aircraft, though, right? They didn't have several other aircraft? It was just the Air Force?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the one. And we had a gifts person, whose job it was to keep all these things straight and to make sure that the right gift got to the right country, you know, that the right gift was unpacked in the proper country to get to the head of state or the representative that the astronauts presented them to.\\n\\n I don't recall about the lunar samples. There may have been a dusting of the lunar samples given here and there, but I really don't remember how that was done, if at all. I think Wade St. Clair could probably answer that for you. [Dr.] Bill Carpentier when you talk to him, he might be able to shed some light on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they spent a day in Mexico City and then they continued on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.17476922956921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is what I had in my briefing book, of what they presented."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just one aircraft, though, right? They didn't have several other aircraft? It was just the Air Force?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just the one. And we had a gifts person, whose job it was to keep all these things straight and to make sure that the right gift got to the right country, you know, that the right gift was unpacked in the proper country to get to the head of state or the representative that the astronauts presented them to.\\n\\n I don't recall about the lunar samples. There may have been a dusting of the lunar samples given here and there, but I really don't remember how that was done, if at all. I think Wade St. Clair could probably answer that for you. [Dr.] Bill Carpentier when you talk to him, he might be able to shed some light on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they spent a day in Mexico City and then they continued on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went on to Buenos Aires [Argentina], I believe. No. Bogota. We went on to Bogota. Generally we were overnight in most of these places. In Rome and Bangkok [Thailand], we spent three nights, but generally we were just overnight in all of these places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they stay on the aircraft overnight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.189857964689004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I hadn't thought of that. You're right. After all these years, I hadn't thought of that. And the mayor and his delegation met the astronauts for an official welcome, and that was the extent of what we did in Brasilia. It was very simple and uncomplicated. I think we were two or three days in Rio de Janeiro.\\n\\n Then we got to the Canary Islands [Spain; located southwest of Morocco, Africa] from there, and we were already getting tired. People were starting to become ill. It just started like one or two people with sort of flu-like symptoms, and as we got on into Europe, everybody had been ill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Including yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Including myself. I became ill in Madrid [Spain]. Two or three of us became ill in Madrid. In fact, there's a picture that somebody had of one of the—I believe it was one of the security detail was sitting on the curb in Madrid, had to get out of the car and wait for a medical person to come and take him to the hotel. When we got to London [England], Dr. Carpentier went on national television to deny that the astronauts had brought back a lunar sickness and that all the staff were exposed to this and we were therefore becoming ill as a result of what they brought back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it came out that you were ill and perhaps the reason was that they brought back some lunar bug?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some bug, yes. Well, I guess, in conversations that local representative embassy representatives would talk to embassy representatives ahead of us, and they would in turn talk to other people, and I guess that's how the rumor got started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a reasonable one, because of all the precautions that were taken after they came back. They might have thought that there was something that slipped by or whatever."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.98873107187667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Including myself. I became ill in Madrid [Spain]. Two or three of us became ill in Madrid. In fact, there's a picture that somebody had of one of the—I believe it was one of the security detail was sitting on the curb in Madrid, had to get out of the car and wait for a medical person to come and take him to the hotel. When we got to London [England], Dr. Carpentier went on national television to deny that the astronauts had brought back a lunar sickness and that all the staff were exposed to this and we were therefore becoming ill as a result of what they brought back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it came out that you were ill and perhaps the reason was that they brought back some lunar bug?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some bug, yes. Well, I guess, in conversations that local representative embassy representatives would talk to embassy representatives ahead of us, and they would in turn talk to other people, and I guess that's how the rumor got started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a reasonable one, because of all the precautions that were taken after they came back. They might have thought that there was something that slipped by or whatever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The time changes—we were involved with a lot of time changes and getting used to food, or not food. Also, with that much closeness, you'd get on each other's nerves. We were staying together in the same part of the hotel, like next door to each other. Then when we were flying from one place to another, we were all confined, a small—not a small airplane, but it got to be kind of small. [Laughter]\\n\\n We came to look upon the airplane as being home. We were always glad to get back on the airplane, because the crew would always welcome us like they were totally rested and ready to help us out with whatever we needed and cooked our meals and waited on us. We could eat the food. We could drink the water. We could take a nap. [Laughter] That's what I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that it kind of got on other people's nerves during the time. Were there any incidents that you can recall that stand out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.070217772805163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that. [Laughter] That luncheon lasted until like four or five o'clock in the afternoon. As we were leaving this lodge, my boss came to me and he said, \"We've gotten word that the chefs at the hotel have acquired the ducks that the astronauts shot and are dressing them for dinner. We're having them for dinner, and we need to get people out of their rooms and into the dining room.\" So he took one side of the hall and I took the other side, and we managed to get a few people into the dining room, after having all that food for lunch, for the duck dinner. And you couldn't say no, because they were our hosts, and that was quite an experience. [Laughter] I never thought I'd ever want to have anything more to eat again, as long as I lived, because we were all so stuffed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the longest flight or duration that you had between stops?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two flights. There was one from Bangkok to Sydney [Australia] all in one day, with a two-hour stop in Perth [Australia], where the astronauts went in, in a motorcade, and were greeted by the city officials of Perth. We started out early in the morning from Bangkok and we landed at Sydney around midnight the same trip, same day. The Prime Minister of Australia met us there, met us in Sydney.\\n\\n The other one was from Tokyo [Japan] to Andrews Air Force Base with a refueling stop at Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska. Originally the plan was, when we finished the appearances in Tokyo, we were to be given a two-day rest in Hawaii before flying back. We were flying to Houston to drop off the astronauts and then flying from there back to Andrews, but President Nixon wanted to take his family on a vacation and their plans were to start fairly soon. So we had to fly straight from Tokyo to Andrews Air Force Base in one leg. That was quite a tiring experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously it's difficult to plan for the elements, as far as weather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that creep in at all as far as your flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.300241969783514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two flights. There was one from Bangkok to Sydney [Australia] all in one day, with a two-hour stop in Perth [Australia], where the astronauts went in, in a motorcade, and were greeted by the city officials of Perth. We started out early in the morning from Bangkok and we landed at Sydney around midnight the same trip, same day. The Prime Minister of Australia met us there, met us in Sydney.\\n\\n The other one was from Tokyo [Japan] to Andrews Air Force Base with a refueling stop at Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska. Originally the plan was, when we finished the appearances in Tokyo, we were to be given a two-day rest in Hawaii before flying back. We were flying to Houston to drop off the astronauts and then flying from there back to Andrews, but President Nixon wanted to take his family on a vacation and their plans were to start fairly soon. So we had to fly straight from Tokyo to Andrews Air Force Base in one leg. That was quite a tiring experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously it's difficult to plan for the elements, as far as weather."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that creep in at all as far as your flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. No, now that you mention it, I don't recall any problems. I'll probably think of something after I leave. I haven't thought about a lot of these things for years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's been a while."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.55582441087057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that creep in at all as far as your flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. No, now that you mention it, I don't recall any problems. I'll probably think of something after I leave. I haven't thought about a lot of these things for years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's been a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For thirty years I haven't really thought about these things until I heard from you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just going through some of the outline that you'd given me previously here, you mentioned one of the more memorable experiences, as far as the sheer number of people. Can you relate that story, that greeted the astronauts at one stop?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.577997882747403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kinshasa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Zaire."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was like a twenty-five-mile drive from the airport to the place where we were staying. They had us billeted in a compound of villas which President Mobutu had apparently built for an Organization of African States [OAS] conference. The compound was adjacent to the presidential palace and his offices. The crowd control there was totally opposite from what we found in Dakar, because the policemen had these huge whips, and if somebody stepped off the curb to get into the path of one of the cars in the motorcade, or tried to get into the astronauts' car, they would use the whips on people and they, of course, scurried back up on the curb.\\n\\n The compound where we were staying, there was a private zoo which the president owned, which was near those grounds, and you could hear the animals, especially at night. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of this was televised also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the arrivals were televised live, according to the embassies. Most of them were televised live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tehran [Iran], apparently you had an interesting encounter with a visitor."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.89876281820667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the arrivals were televised live, according to the embassies. Most of them were televised live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tehran [Iran], apparently you had an interesting encounter with a visitor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tehran, Iran."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The staff was invited to go to visit the vault where the Shah [Mohammad Reza Shah] had all of the family crown jewels stored. The vault doors are on a time lock and they opened it especially for us, but I believe they were still time-locked. We were cautioned not to touch the glass display cases or not to put our foreheads up against them or touch them in any fashion. But somebody did, and the alarm started going off and these heavy doors started closing, and the security guards and the police were doing their best to hold the doors open while we all scurried out as far as we could go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they all made it out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.554180909118522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tehran, Iran."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The staff was invited to go to visit the vault where the Shah [Mohammad Reza Shah] had all of the family crown jewels stored. The vault doors are on a time lock and they opened it especially for us, but I believe they were still time-locked. We were cautioned not to touch the glass display cases or not to put our foreheads up against them or touch them in any fashion. But somebody did, and the alarm started going off and these heavy doors started closing, and the security guards and the police were doing their best to hold the doors open while we all scurried out as far as we could go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they all made it out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We made it out, yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Avoided an incident. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2824232323539135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The staff was invited to go to visit the vault where the Shah [Mohammad Reza Shah] had all of the family crown jewels stored. The vault doors are on a time lock and they opened it especially for us, but I believe they were still time-locked. We were cautioned not to touch the glass display cases or not to put our foreheads up against them or touch them in any fashion. But somebody did, and the alarm started going off and these heavy doors started closing, and the security guards and the police were doing their best to hold the doors open while we all scurried out as far as we could go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they all made it out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We made it out, yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Avoided an incident. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cut our little tour short, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So apparently you were warmly received in every spot that you went."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.091581369282126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We made it out, yes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Avoided an incident. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cut our little tour short, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So apparently you were warmly received in every spot that you went."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't any occasions where you received protests because you were representing the United States, as well, for whatever political reasons were going on. Obviously, [the] Vietnam [War] was still going on at that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.99064596586903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cut our little tour short, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So apparently you were warmly received in every spot that you went."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't any occasions where you received protests because you were representing the United States, as well, for whatever political reasons were going on. Obviously, [the] Vietnam [War] was still going on at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we did. I don't think there was any ugliness. If there was, it was kept—the crowds were kept a good distance away from the official ceremonies for the astronauts, but I don't recall any. I don't know if anything even came up, but that's something that Wade St. Clair might be able to shed some light on, or Bill Carpentier might know of some of that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been impressive going to these different countries in the President's plane, the Air Force One, or the backup, because it has the painting, the presidential seal and so forth. Did you get that response from others, too, just seeing that aircraft arrive?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.989606628743367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There weren't any occasions where you received protests because you were representing the United States, as well, for whatever political reasons were going on. Obviously, [the] Vietnam [War] was still going on at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think we did. I don't think there was any ugliness. If there was, it was kept—the crowds were kept a good distance away from the official ceremonies for the astronauts, but I don't recall any. I don't know if anything even came up, but that's something that Wade St. Clair might be able to shed some light on, or Bill Carpentier might know of some of that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been impressive going to these different countries in the President's plane, the Air Force One, or the backup, because it has the painting, the presidential seal and so forth. Did you get that response from others, too, just seeing that aircraft arrive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, one of the embassy people told me that on one of our evening arrivals, he said when we approached the airport, you could see the plane visibly and the seal and the flag, the American flag on the tail. He said it just gave him goosebumps. It was an impressive plane. When the trip was over, we all gathered under the seal and had a group photograph made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would play the Star-Spangled Banner?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.098279788572057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, one of the embassy people told me that on one of our evening arrivals, he said when we approached the airport, you could see the plane visibly and the seal and the flag, the American flag on the tail. He said it just gave him goosebumps. It was an impressive plane. When the trip was over, we all gathered under the seal and had a group photograph made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would play the Star-Spangled Banner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At one of the briefings at the State Department, we were told that whenever you're coming, we used the back of the plane to leave the plane, and the astronauts and their wives and a couple of the senior staff would use the front. In Berlin, we were coming, and I believe we had to switch planes in Berlin. I believe we couldn't land at Templehauf with the Vice President's plane, and I think we had to switch over to a smaller plane. But at any rate, it still had the American flag on the tail.\\n\\n But as we came down the back steps, and I was one of the people coming down the steps, and the band started playing the Star-Spangled Banner. We were told in the briefings that whenever you heard the Star-Spangled Banner, no matter where you were or what you were doing, you must stop what you were doing, face the flag and put your hand over your heart, and we did. The embassy guy said they picked that up on the television, on the live television arrival."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a response."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good patriotic feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you allowed to take any essentials with you, or were those all provided pretty much on the plane? Were you allowed to take personal items, luggage and things like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.82856574806018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Front-page news. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. [Laughter] I wasn't at my best. But I thought where in the world could you meet the Prime Minister of Australia under those—they were very casual people, the Australians. I enjoyed meeting those people. They were very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So obviously the food and the water and the time change and everything, eventually would catch up. I mean, any people who have traveled, just knowing jet lag on a single trip, and having to get used to the food, and sometimes water, and whatever other things that they need. Eventually the illness kind of passed? Did they have medication that they could take? Did you have a doctor on board that could help?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The flight surgeon—let's see. He was ministering to us as best he could with the supplies he had. I believe we had anti-diarrheal medicine and we had the usual things. But I lost twenty-five pounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common with the other members, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.89946388649405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The flight surgeon—let's see. He was ministering to us as best he could with the supplies he had. I believe we had anti-diarrheal medicine and we had the usual things. But I lost twenty-five pounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that common with the other members, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the astronaut wives had lost a lot of weight, too. The State Department and health people would say to us, \"Don't eat anything that you can't peel,\" which is a standard they tell all the tourists. \"Don't drink the water.\" You were always bound to slip up somewhere along the way and do something you shouldn't do. It sort of took its toll, you know. The metabolism, I guess, had gone haywire. We probably would have been a good study, a microcosm of all the things that can happen to you on jet lag, going from one time zone to another and not eating properly, not getting enough rest. The flight surgeon finally said to us, \"Eat when you're hungry and sleep when you're sleepy,\" because we weren't used to a lot of the time changes and going to bed at the proper time and eating your meals at the proper time. It was sort of catch-as-catch-can by the time the trip was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like, in retrospect, looking at everything that went into making Apollo 11 happen, this was probably one of the most difficult things for the crew members to have to work with. They naturally were uncomfortable around the public, and now suddenly the world's population is being laid at their feet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get that feeling?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.76482901741613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That seemed to work. [Laughter] That was the only thing I recall. Probably other things would come to mind if I had a chance to think about it some more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The astronaut wives, many times they would get overlooked in all of the celebrity events and so forth that were going on. Did you get any stories, reflections that you recall on this trip? It must have been hard for them also, because if the astronauts were reclusive, the astronaut wives in many cases were even more so. Did you find—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. In addition to doing appearances, appearing with their husbands, they were also scheduled for separate events in themselves. They would work in press conferences by the wives where the local press would just ask them questions. They were very open and very—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Supportive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Supportive and responsive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have separate functions, too, that the wives of the heads of state, they participated in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.62758779712903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. In addition to doing appearances, appearing with their husbands, they were also scheduled for separate events in themselves. They would work in press conferences by the wives where the local press would just ask them questions. They were very open and very—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Supportive?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Supportive and responsive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have separate functions, too, that the wives of the heads of state, they participated in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so. I know in Rio de Janeiro, the ambassador's wife hosted a yacht tour around the city with the astronaut wives and myself and the State Department secretary, just the women. Again, Wade St. Clair would probably be able to tell you more of the things that they were—on my notes, on my marginal notes that I kept in my briefing book, I don't recall a whole lot of separate events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the return, you mentioned earlier they arrived back and then gave a report to the President."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.5862086634767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Supportive and responsive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have separate functions, too, that the wives of the heads of state, they participated in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so. I know in Rio de Janeiro, the ambassador's wife hosted a yacht tour around the city with the astronaut wives and myself and the State Department secretary, just the women. Again, Wade St. Clair would probably be able to tell you more of the things that they were—on my notes, on my marginal notes that I kept in my briefing book, I don't recall a whole lot of separate events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the return, you mentioned earlier they arrived back and then gave a report to the President."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a report that was prepared, a notebook with highlights of the trip, I guess, that was put together by the local embassies, that we carried with us. But the astronauts themselves dictated a letter, prepared a letter, which they signed, transmitting this letter and this report to the President, and that was presented to him when the trip was over and we landed back at Andrews Air Force Base. The President had the families of all the staff people, had invited all of them to be at the White House. There was an official welcoming by the President, welcoming the astronauts back to the U.S. from this successful tour, where they shared all their information with other countries about space exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of gifts that were presented to the astronauts as part of their tour?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.651342959418557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so. I know in Rio de Janeiro, the ambassador's wife hosted a yacht tour around the city with the astronaut wives and myself and the State Department secretary, just the women. Again, Wade St. Clair would probably be able to tell you more of the things that they were—on my notes, on my marginal notes that I kept in my briefing book, I don't recall a whole lot of separate events."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the return, you mentioned earlier they arrived back and then gave a report to the President."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a report that was prepared, a notebook with highlights of the trip, I guess, that was put together by the local embassies, that we carried with us. But the astronauts themselves dictated a letter, prepared a letter, which they signed, transmitting this letter and this report to the President, and that was presented to him when the trip was over and we landed back at Andrews Air Force Base. The President had the families of all the staff people, had invited all of them to be at the White House. There was an official welcoming by the President, welcoming the astronauts back to the U.S. from this successful tour, where they shared all their information with other countries about space exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of gifts that were presented to the astronauts as part of their tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was quite a number. When the trip was over, we had to ask for a special dispensation from Congress for them to keep the ones that they treasured the most and wanted to keep the most, because as a government employee, as you know, you're not allowed to keep anything. I've forgotten what the value is now, but you have a certain value that you can keep things, and over and above that, you have to ask for Congress to give you special dispensation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any unique items in particular that were presented that come to mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.723714399353952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a report that was prepared, a notebook with highlights of the trip, I guess, that was put together by the local embassies, that we carried with us. But the astronauts themselves dictated a letter, prepared a letter, which they signed, transmitting this letter and this report to the President, and that was presented to him when the trip was over and we landed back at Andrews Air Force Base. The President had the families of all the staff people, had invited all of them to be at the White House. There was an official welcoming by the President, welcoming the astronauts back to the U.S. from this successful tour, where they shared all their information with other countries about space exploration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there a lot of gifts that were presented to the astronauts as part of their tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was quite a number. When the trip was over, we had to ask for a special dispensation from Congress for them to keep the ones that they treasured the most and wanted to keep the most, because as a government employee, as you know, you're not allowed to keep anything. I've forgotten what the value is now, but you have a certain value that you can keep things, and over and above that, you have to ask for Congress to give you special dispensation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any unique items in particular that were presented that come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that the Shah of Iran gave them a Persian rug which had the Apollo 11 insignia woven into it, into the center of it, and they were each presented with one of those. That's the only thing that comes to mind. Of course, Congress gave their approval for them to—because it wouldn't mean anything to anybody but them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after all this is done, did the astronauts then have an opportunity to take a real vacation? [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.248571554837726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was quite a number. When the trip was over, we had to ask for a special dispensation from Congress for them to keep the ones that they treasured the most and wanted to keep the most, because as a government employee, as you know, you're not allowed to keep anything. I've forgotten what the value is now, but you have a certain value that you can keep things, and over and above that, you have to ask for Congress to give you special dispensation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall any unique items in particular that were presented that come to mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that the Shah of Iran gave them a Persian rug which had the Apollo 11 insignia woven into it, into the center of it, and they were each presented with one of those. That's the only thing that comes to mind. Of course, Congress gave their approval for them to—because it wouldn't mean anything to anybody but them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after all this is done, did the astronauts then have an opportunity to take a real vacation? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did. [Laughter] But a month after that, they went to Montreal [Quebec, Canada] and Ottawa, [Ontario,] Canada. Apparently that could not be logistically fitted into either the beginning of the trip or the end of the world trip. So a month after that trip, the world trip was over, they went to Montreal and Ottawa and were received by the Prime Minister [Pierre Elliott Trudeau] and did appearances there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all very interesting. I'd heard of the tour that the astronauts presented, but, until now, really never knew how massive an effort, a project that was. Buzz Aldrin, I think, mentions it in a book that he wrote shortly after. It was called Return to Earth."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.942857283153028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe that the Shah of Iran gave them a Persian rug which had the Apollo 11 insignia woven into it, into the center of it, and they were each presented with one of those. That's the only thing that comes to mind. Of course, Congress gave their approval for them to—because it wouldn't mean anything to anybody but them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after all this is done, did the astronauts then have an opportunity to take a real vacation? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did. [Laughter] But a month after that, they went to Montreal [Quebec, Canada] and Ottawa, [Ontario,] Canada. Apparently that could not be logistically fitted into either the beginning of the trip or the end of the world trip. So a month after that trip, the world trip was over, they went to Montreal and Ottawa and were received by the Prime Minister [Pierre Elliott Trudeau] and did appearances there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all very interesting. I'd heard of the tour that the astronauts presented, but, until now, really never knew how massive an effort, a project that was. Buzz Aldrin, I think, mentions it in a book that he wrote shortly after. It was called Return to Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have a copy of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, he had some problems afterwards. I wonder how much this affected him, if there was any sign at the time of what was to later happen."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.380952536836698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did. [Laughter] But a month after that, they went to Montreal [Quebec, Canada] and Ottawa, [Ontario,] Canada. Apparently that could not be logistically fitted into either the beginning of the trip or the end of the world trip. So a month after that trip, the world trip was over, they went to Montreal and Ottawa and were received by the Prime Minister [Pierre Elliott Trudeau] and did appearances there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all very interesting. I'd heard of the tour that the astronauts presented, but, until now, really never knew how massive an effort, a project that was. Buzz Aldrin, I think, mentions it in a book that he wrote shortly after. It was called Return to Earth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have a copy of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, he had some problems afterwards. I wonder how much this affected him, if there was any sign at the time of what was to later happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, from my own personal viewpoint, I know when that trip was over, I had three children, I had a three-year-old, an eleven-year-old, and a thirteen-year-old, and was glad to get back home to them. I know when we left the White House grounds, my husband and the children met me there on the White House grounds, and when we left to go get the car from the parking garage, all of a sudden it dawned on me, there's nobody bringing me a car. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got spoiled. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.978836152040776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have a copy of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, he had some problems afterwards. I wonder how much this affected him, if there was any sign at the time of what was to later happen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, from my own personal viewpoint, I know when that trip was over, I had three children, I had a three-year-old, an eleven-year-old, and a thirteen-year-old, and was glad to get back home to them. I know when we left the White House grounds, my husband and the children met me there on the White House grounds, and when we left to go get the car from the parking garage, all of a sudden it dawned on me, there's nobody bringing me a car. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got spoiled. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just worn out. And when we got home, I didn't even unpack my bags. I just sat down in a reclining chair and sat there all night long, because your adrenalin, you know, the whole time you're traveling, you're pumped up. You really can't sleep well, because you're afraid you're going to miss your wake-up call, afraid you'll miss the plane. And all of a sudden, everything is down. You don't have to wake up at a certain time the next morning, you don't have to pack a bag to put out in the hall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And risk encountering the Prime Minister of Australia. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.643151280045306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, from my own personal viewpoint, I know when that trip was over, I had three children, I had a three-year-old, an eleven-year-old, and a thirteen-year-old, and was glad to get back home to them. I know when we left the White House grounds, my husband and the children met me there on the White House grounds, and when we left to go get the car from the parking garage, all of a sudden it dawned on me, there's nobody bringing me a car. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got spoiled. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just worn out. And when we got home, I didn't even unpack my bags. I just sat down in a reclining chair and sat there all night long, because your adrenalin, you know, the whole time you're traveling, you're pumped up. You really can't sleep well, because you're afraid you're going to miss your wake-up call, afraid you'll miss the plane. And all of a sudden, everything is down. You don't have to wake up at a certain time the next morning, you don't have to pack a bag to put out in the hall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And risk encountering the Prime Minister of Australia. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. [Laughter] It was like you'd really come down, and it took a couple of days to get yourself back to the functioning level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To return to Earth. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.38127920005034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was just worn out. And when we got home, I didn't even unpack my bags. I just sat down in a reclining chair and sat there all night long, because your adrenalin, you know, the whole time you're traveling, you're pumped up. You really can't sleep well, because you're afraid you're going to miss your wake-up call, afraid you'll miss the plane. And all of a sudden, everything is down. You don't have to wake up at a certain time the next morning, you don't have to pack a bag to put out in the hall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And risk encountering the Prime Minister of Australia. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. [Laughter] It was like you'd really come down, and it took a couple of days to get yourself back to the functioning level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To return to Earth. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To return to Earth, as Buzz Aldrin would say. I believe that he did speak of some problems that he had after the lunar mission, where it was a letdown, and I can see why if you were training all those months for such an undertaking as that and it's over. What do you do after you go to the moon? But on a smaller scale, speaking for myself, I could see that I did have a down time, a couple of days there where it was hard to really get back in the real world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an assessment of the tour afterwards inside of NASA to see if this was something that they wanted to do again? I know you mentioned that the Apollo 12 crew took a similar trip, not as extensive, but they also took a trip, too. Did they use kind of a lessons-learned from this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.312532444500377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. [Laughter] It was like you'd really come down, and it took a couple of days to get yourself back to the functioning level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To return to Earth. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To return to Earth, as Buzz Aldrin would say. I believe that he did speak of some problems that he had after the lunar mission, where it was a letdown, and I can see why if you were training all those months for such an undertaking as that and it's over. What do you do after you go to the moon? But on a smaller scale, speaking for myself, I could see that I did have a down time, a couple of days there where it was hard to really get back in the real world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an assessment of the tour afterwards inside of NASA to see if this was something that they wanted to do again? I know you mentioned that the Apollo 12 crew took a similar trip, not as extensive, but they also took a trip, too. Did they use kind of a lessons-learned from this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did. I know that there was a feeling after our trip was over, that the United States had gained a lot of benefits by having them go meet public people, as well as the heads of state, and that we had gained support for the space program. After the Apollo 12 flight, there was a similar world tour for them. I believe those were the only two that were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved on the 12 tour?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.458369382778194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To return to Earth, as Buzz Aldrin would say. I believe that he did speak of some problems that he had after the lunar mission, where it was a letdown, and I can see why if you were training all those months for such an undertaking as that and it's over. What do you do after you go to the moon? But on a smaller scale, speaking for myself, I could see that I did have a down time, a couple of days there where it was hard to really get back in the real world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an assessment of the tour afterwards inside of NASA to see if this was something that they wanted to do again? I know you mentioned that the Apollo 12 crew took a similar trip, not as extensive, but they also took a trip, too. Did they use kind of a lessons-learned from this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did. I know that there was a feeling after our trip was over, that the United States had gained a lot of benefits by having them go meet public people, as well as the heads of state, and that we had gained support for the space program. After the Apollo 12 flight, there was a similar world tour for them. I believe those were the only two that were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved on the 12 tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The staff people were from my office, the same office that went to support that. My boss' deputy was a NASA representative and his secretary was the NASA secretary that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have to pull another tour of duty as far as actively going to these different countries on that tour?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.842632647531325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure they did. I know that there was a feeling after our trip was over, that the United States had gained a lot of benefits by having them go meet public people, as well as the heads of state, and that we had gained support for the space program. After the Apollo 12 flight, there was a similar world tour for them. I believe those were the only two that were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved on the 12 tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The staff people were from my office, the same office that went to support that. My boss' deputy was a NASA representative and his secretary was the NASA secretary that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have to pull another tour of duty as far as actively going to these different countries on that tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. I couldn't stand to do it again. It was really quite unique and a wonderful experience and one that I never would have had, had I not worked for NASA. I mean, I never would have dreamed of going to all these places. I'm glad I did it, but I wouldn't want to do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you handled some of the correspondence with the astronauts at that time. Did you actually look at some of the letters and review the letters that would come in from the outside, or were you handling basically correspondence, just follow-up correspondence?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.380702941701472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The staff people were from my office, the same office that went to support that. My boss' deputy was a NASA representative and his secretary was the NASA secretary that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have to pull another tour of duty as far as actively going to these different countries on that tour?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. I couldn't stand to do it again. It was really quite unique and a wonderful experience and one that I never would have had, had I not worked for NASA. I mean, I never would have dreamed of going to all these places. I'm glad I did it, but I wouldn't want to do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you handled some of the correspondence with the astronauts at that time. Did you actually look at some of the letters and review the letters that would come in from the outside, or were you handling basically correspondence, just follow-up correspondence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On that mission, on that trip, I was just handling follow-up correspondence, thank-you letters and helping the State Department with some of their clerical things after the trip was over. But after the trip was over and Neil Armstrong was assigned to headquarters as the deputy associate administrator for aeronautics, I went to work for him as a public affairs assistant and answered all of his public mail in his role as an astronaut. He had a secretary who supported him in his job as the deputy associate administrator and handled any invitations he got for public appearances. My job was to prepare responses to his public mail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you worked with Neil after this, as you mentioned, can you share anything? He's always been somewhat of an elusive character with the Apollo 11 crew, very quiet, very to himself. Can you share any moments or interesting anecdotal stories about working with Neil Armstrong?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.5764702793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The State Department and NASA and the Reader's Digest sponsored a science competition in various countries, and the winners of those science competitions were brought as a group to this country for a tour of the scientific facilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the subject? It was an experiment that they had to perform? Was it a space-related theme?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. I don't recall. That was in 1972. I don't really recall how they did it in each country. Well, frankly, this probably should be off the record, but they say in some of these countries, the teenager—the age group was fifteen to eighteen. The rumor was—well, it wasn't exactly a rumor, but some of the representatives were close relatives of the reigning monarch of these countries, so it may not have been a real competition at all in some of the places. I probably shouldn't—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we'll scratch that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, scratch that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll expunge that from the record."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.084966977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know. I don't recall. That was in 1972. I don't really recall how they did it in each country. Well, frankly, this probably should be off the record, but they say in some of these countries, the teenager—the age group was fifteen to eighteen. The rumor was—well, it wasn't exactly a rumor, but some of the representatives were close relatives of the reigning monarch of these countries, so it may not have been a real competition at all in some of the places. I probably shouldn't—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, we'll scratch that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, scratch that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll expunge that from the record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't know how they conducted the scientific experiments that won these competitions for these kids. My group, we had about eighty in the group, and I was one of the chaperons. We had a group of two chaperons for a group of twenty people. We were gone like two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So NASA basically hosted them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 27.87218553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, scratch that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll expunge that from the record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't know how they conducted the scientific experiments that won these competitions for these kids. My group, we had about eighty in the group, and I was one of the chaperons. We had a group of two chaperons for a group of twenty people. We were gone like two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So NASA basically hosted them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they visited the different centers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.6357617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't know how they conducted the scientific experiments that won these competitions for these kids. My group, we had about eighty in the group, and I was one of the chaperons. We had a group of two chaperons for a group of twenty people. We were gone like two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So NASA basically hosted them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they visited the different centers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to Marshall Space Flight Center [Huntsville, Alabama], the Johnson Space Center, and another facility in Boulder, Colorado, at Lawrence Livermore in Los Angeles, [California], the Lawrence Livermore Labs, and Oakridge, Tennessee. I can't remember some of the other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned later in your career with NASA that you basically from around 1980 on, it looks like, until your retirement in '94, that you worked with the astronaut appearances. Tell us a little bit about that capacity. I know from the public's perspective, there's always requests that come in from people in different states that want an astronaut to appear at some function. How, typically, did that work and some interesting stories that you had during the rather long portion of your career working in that capacity?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't, because there was an awful lot of requests that were coming in for the Shuttle crews. We really couldn't do them all. We were very popular, still. Now, I guess I read stories, you know, and some of the questions that the astronauts would get on the road were sort of like, \"Why are we spending all this money to go into space?\" They always had good answers, but I guess during the Shuttle days you saw more of those kind of questions than you did, for instance, on the world tour with the Apollo 11 astronauts. I guess people's priorities had started to change.\\n\\n But I was very sad when we decided not to continue to send flights to the moon, because it seemed like all of my NASA career I'd heard stories of how we were planning to colonize the moon and use it for a stop-off to other planets. I never could really get it straight in my mind why we weren't looking that far into the future that we would not continue. It never dawned on me that we should not continue on with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You being much more closely associated with it, it seemed all the more crazy, I guess, why we had all this technology and we just kind of let it go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let it go, yes. It's sad. I think it's sad. I know one of the speech writers years ago, in response to a similar kind of question, made the analogy of what if Queen [Isabela] had told Christopher Columbus, \"Well, we need this money for public housing\"? You know, there's always going to be problems with the welfare system and people that don't have money, and you have to set your priorities, I think. I think that at that time, NASA was only getting like two cents out of the tax dollar, so I don't think that's too much to ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially with the Apollo Program, the response that you got overwhelmingly from the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, from the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like it would be the farthest things from our minds at all."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00015:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let it go, yes. It's sad. I think it's sad. I know one of the speech writers years ago, in response to a similar kind of question, made the analogy of what if Queen [Isabela] had told Christopher Columbus, \"Well, we need this money for public housing\"? You know, there's always going to be problems with the welfare system and people that don't have money, and you have to set your priorities, I think. I think that at that time, NASA was only getting like two cents out of the tax dollar, so I don't think that's too much to ask."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially with the Apollo Program, the response that you got overwhelmingly from the world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, from the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like it would be the farthest things from our minds at all."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the spinoffs that we've gotten from later missions just boggles the mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think we'll come to a close, unless you have anything else that you would be interested in sharing, Gennie, to this interview. I see that our time is up, so thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.10584109679908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was in the Flight Support Division, which was a part of—I can’t even remember what the directorate name was, but Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft was the director of the organization. The Division Chief was an Air Force major who later become a NASA employee at [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, D.C.]. So I started out in the Network Operations Branch, who my first supervisor in California was the Branch Chief, as the engineer from an operational standpoint for the command system in the control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your basic duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oversight of the operation of the command system, from the standpoint of its performance, getting it ready for each one of the flights, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the flights, you actually served as a support control coordinator. Can you tell us what that position entailed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That position was instituted from the standpoint of—the Division I was in provided all the systems within the control center to support the flight control operation. And as such, if requirements came up during a flight where they needed something other than what had been planned, the support control coordinator position was created to be the focal point to where that person or individual had the responsibility of going out and doing whatever was necessary to make the service available to the flight control team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to our research and the Mission Control manning lists, you actually did serve on a few flights. Did you serve in one of the support rooms, or did you actually serve in the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 31.228712329776755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oversight of the operation of the command system, from the standpoint of its performance, getting it ready for each one of the flights, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the flights, you actually served as a support control coordinator. Can you tell us what that position entailed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That position was instituted from the standpoint of—the Division I was in provided all the systems within the control center to support the flight control operation. And as such, if requirements came up during a flight where they needed something other than what had been planned, the support control coordinator position was created to be the focal point to where that person or individual had the responsibility of going out and doing whatever was necessary to make the service available to the flight control team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to our research and the Mission Control manning lists, you actually did serve on a few flights. Did you serve in one of the support rooms, or did you actually serve in the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From a support coordinator function standpoint, we basically operated out of the VIP [Very Important Person] room behind the MOCR. We had a com [communications] position [in] a room that we set in and monitored the mission [so that] the flight director or the mission director [could] get [a hold] of us, to address new [or] any additional requirements they might have. [In addition,] if there were problems, system problems, then we would go get involved in the system problems from the standpoint of ensuring that the right people were involved in getting the problem resolved, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any serious network problems that occurred while you were working as support control coordinator?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.403363879155876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The main challenges was schedules and getting everything done that we need to get done to make sure that the system was capable of providing the support that it was intended to provide. One of the things that our Branch did is we took the requirements that had been defined for the various systems, and sat down and scripted out very detailed test procedures that would check—we started out first doing it internal to the building to make sure that if we put this input into this system, that we got the expected result. And then after we completed the control center, we extended that type and level of testing all the way out to every end instrument on the network to verify that the system, end-to-end, would meet the requirements that had been levied on the system by the operations team. We did the end-to-end stuff every flight as a part of the preparation in saying we were ready to support the flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a lot of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’68 you actually headed the Telemetry Command Group. Do you remember what your duties were in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a data systems operations section—I can’t remember what the exact name was at the time—which included people who had expertise in telemetry systems, command systems, tracking systems, air-to-ground communications systems, and then we had the network controller. In my group was—and I can’t remember how many people was involved—was specifically just the telemetry and command part of that total section responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then a few years later, you actually headed the Mission Operation Section."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.22595986572875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’68 you actually headed the Telemetry Command Group. Do you remember what your duties were in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had a data systems operations section—I can’t remember what the exact name was at the time—which included people who had expertise in telemetry systems, command systems, tracking systems, air-to-ground communications systems, and then we had the network controller. In my group was—and I can’t remember how many people was involved—was specifically just the telemetry and command part of that total section responsibility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then a few years later, you actually headed the Mission Operation Section."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was that whole group. It had the network controllers. The network controller was a person that sat in the MOCR, and he interfaced with the flight control team. If they needed something done or if there was network problems, he interfaced that to the flight control team, and then if they had specific requirements, they’d feed them to him, and then he would send it to the right person in our ops [operations] team, which was in a support area downstairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the missions, did you stay in the MOCR or the support rooms?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.451802303368826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was that whole group. It had the network controllers. The network controller was a person that sat in the MOCR, and he interfaced with the flight control team. If they needed something done or if there was network problems, he interfaced that to the flight control team, and then if they had specific requirements, they’d feed them to him, and then he would send it to the right person in our ops [operations] team, which was in a support area downstairs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the missions, did you stay in the MOCR or the support rooms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a time, I guess it was probably when I was in the Telemetry Command Group, I supported the mission from the command console, but that was downstairs. By the time I took over the section, I basically—I would fill in occasionally, but most of the time I was free, I was roaming the building, I would talk to individual flight controllers. If we had problems, I’d interface with them, etc.\\n\\n I sort of established a work habit that I was in by 3:00 a.m. every morning, and I left exactly at 4:30, because I had a philosophy. I had four kids at the time, and my philosophy was from 4:30 till the time my wife and the kids went to bed was their time. From that point on, it was my time. So I’d get by with three or four hours of sleep.\\n\\n During the flights, I was out there continuously. I’d grab fifteen-minute power naps. Sometimes that was on my table in my office. Of course, at that time we also had a dormitory in the control center with bunks, shower facilities, etc., and [occasionally] I used those. I basically, when we was in flight, lived out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a long schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know John [H.] Beall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don’t recognize that name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.279780337076474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a time, I guess it was probably when I was in the Telemetry Command Group, I supported the mission from the command console, but that was downstairs. By the time I took over the section, I basically—I would fill in occasionally, but most of the time I was free, I was roaming the building, I would talk to individual flight controllers. If we had problems, I’d interface with them, etc.\\n\\n I sort of established a work habit that I was in by 3:00 a.m. every morning, and I left exactly at 4:30, because I had a philosophy. I had four kids at the time, and my philosophy was from 4:30 till the time my wife and the kids went to bed was their time. From that point on, it was my time. So I’d get by with three or four hours of sleep.\\n\\n During the flights, I was out there continuously. I’d grab fifteen-minute power naps. Sometimes that was on my table in my office. Of course, at that time we also had a dormitory in the control center with bunks, shower facilities, etc., and [occasionally] I used those. I basically, when we was in flight, lived out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a long schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know John [H.] Beall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don’t recognize that name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s the CFO [Chief Financial Officer] at JSC now, and he’s tainted my customers’ knowledge of me out here by telling them that I lived in the control center. But that was just my way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had a big schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.19975593008497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know John [H.] Beall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I don’t recognize that name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s the CFO [Chief Financial Officer] at JSC now, and he’s tainted my customers’ knowledge of me out here by telling them that I lived in the control center. But that was just my way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had a big schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but by getting in by 3:00 a.m. every morning, from a paperwork standpoint, everything was done before anyone else got in, so I could spend most of the day walking and talking, which keeps you in contact with what’s going on and the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned, when we were talking about Gemini, that the Mission Control Center had to be reconfigured for each flight. Was that the case also for the Apollo Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.221951033427743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s the CFO [Chief Financial Officer] at JSC now, and he’s tainted my customers’ knowledge of me out here by telling them that I lived in the control center. But that was just my way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also had a big schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but by getting in by 3:00 a.m. every morning, from a paperwork standpoint, everything was done before anyone else got in, so I could spend most of the day walking and talking, which keeps you in contact with what’s going on and the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned, when we were talking about Gemini, that the Mission Control Center had to be reconfigured for each flight. Was that the case also for the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, in spades. And it’s in spades more when you get into the Shuttle Program. Because as I said, as manned spaceflight changed from program to program, one of the things that happened was—what you tried to do with each one of those vehicles was expand it. You were trying to expand your envelop relative to knowledge about manned spaceflight experiments, etc. So each one of those drove a greater data need, greater capacity on board the vehicle, and you had to be able to, on the ground, process that data by the fact—if you had a flight that had experiments on it, that in itself is different from the previous flight, so you had to do something to get the system on the ground ready to receive that information and present the information in a form or the data in a form that meant something to either the flight controller or the PI [principal investigator] or whatever.\\n\\n So, mission-to-mission configuration, I cannot recall anytime that you didn’t have to change the configuration, whether the next flight was identically the same as the previous flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about the Apollo 11 mission and your memories of that event."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.35772337047527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but by getting in by 3:00 a.m. every morning, from a paperwork standpoint, everything was done before anyone else got in, so I could spend most of the day walking and talking, which keeps you in contact with what’s going on and the people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned, when we were talking about Gemini, that the Mission Control Center had to be reconfigured for each flight. Was that the case also for the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, in spades. And it’s in spades more when you get into the Shuttle Program. Because as I said, as manned spaceflight changed from program to program, one of the things that happened was—what you tried to do with each one of those vehicles was expand it. You were trying to expand your envelop relative to knowledge about manned spaceflight experiments, etc. So each one of those drove a greater data need, greater capacity on board the vehicle, and you had to be able to, on the ground, process that data by the fact—if you had a flight that had experiments on it, that in itself is different from the previous flight, so you had to do something to get the system on the ground ready to receive that information and present the information in a form or the data in a form that meant something to either the flight controller or the PI [principal investigator] or whatever.\\n\\n So, mission-to-mission configuration, I cannot recall anytime that you didn’t have to change the configuration, whether the next flight was identically the same as the previous flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about the Apollo 11 mission and your memories of that event."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t on the console, but I was in the control center, as usual: I was just like everyone else; I was glued to the data and the information that we had coming in, and excited relative to the—were we going to encounter any problems in the actual landing, and was the LM [Lunar Module] going to perform right, etc. And I got just as excited as anybody else when you heard the words, “The\\n\\n Eagle\\n\\n has landed.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice memory."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.730803744972523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, in spades. And it’s in spades more when you get into the Shuttle Program. Because as I said, as manned spaceflight changed from program to program, one of the things that happened was—what you tried to do with each one of those vehicles was expand it. You were trying to expand your envelop relative to knowledge about manned spaceflight experiments, etc. So each one of those drove a greater data need, greater capacity on board the vehicle, and you had to be able to, on the ground, process that data by the fact—if you had a flight that had experiments on it, that in itself is different from the previous flight, so you had to do something to get the system on the ground ready to receive that information and present the information in a form or the data in a form that meant something to either the flight controller or the PI [principal investigator] or whatever.\\n\\n So, mission-to-mission configuration, I cannot recall anytime that you didn’t have to change the configuration, whether the next flight was identically the same as the previous flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about the Apollo 11 mission and your memories of that event."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t on the console, but I was in the control center, as usual: I was just like everyone else; I was glued to the data and the information that we had coming in, and excited relative to the—were we going to encounter any problems in the actual landing, and was the LM [Lunar Module] going to perform right, etc. And I got just as excited as anybody else when you heard the words, “The\\n\\n Eagle\\n\\n has landed.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Apollo 13 mission? We know that you received a Superior Achievement Award for your role."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.145337494413912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t on the console, but I was in the control center, as usual: I was just like everyone else; I was glued to the data and the information that we had coming in, and excited relative to the—were we going to encounter any problems in the actual landing, and was the LM [Lunar Module] going to perform right, etc. And I got just as excited as anybody else when you heard the words, “The\\n\\n Eagle\\n\\n has landed.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice memory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Apollo 13 mission? We know that you received a Superior Achievement Award for your role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me clear up one thing. It’s like a lot of awards, that award was because of the performance of my people. I contributed, but the award itself was the product of the effort of the section I had at that time.\\n\\n From a data systems standpoint in providing information to the flight control team, what the Apollo 13 explosion did to us, it basically disrupted communications, because it damaged a high-gain antenna, etc. So we spent a lot of time reconfiguring the system to come up with a configuration that would allow us to continuously communicate with the Apollo 13, and they ended up migrating to the LM. So we had to reconfigure the whole system from a communications standpoint and the S-band system at the remote sites to reestablish that communication. So that really was my team’s primary [action], was to reestablish that communication so that the mission could go on and the crew could communicate to the ground, the ground could communicate to the crew, and the ground could monitor the LM systems, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any problems making that change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.717041660459902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the Apollo 13 mission? We know that you received a Superior Achievement Award for your role."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me clear up one thing. It’s like a lot of awards, that award was because of the performance of my people. I contributed, but the award itself was the product of the effort of the section I had at that time.\\n\\n From a data systems standpoint in providing information to the flight control team, what the Apollo 13 explosion did to us, it basically disrupted communications, because it damaged a high-gain antenna, etc. So we spent a lot of time reconfiguring the system to come up with a configuration that would allow us to continuously communicate with the Apollo 13, and they ended up migrating to the LM. So we had to reconfigure the whole system from a communications standpoint and the S-band system at the remote sites to reestablish that communication. So that really was my team’s primary [action], was to reestablish that communication so that the mission could go on and the crew could communicate to the ground, the ground could communicate to the crew, and the ground could monitor the LM systems, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any problems making that change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it just took time. Yes. Some of the people I had had excellent knowledge of the unified S-band systems, etc. So it took that knowledge. I’m sure they tried some things that didn’t exactly work the way they thought it was going to work, so they had to follow another—can I take a break for a minute?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 28.574490733844335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me clear up one thing. It’s like a lot of awards, that award was because of the performance of my people. I contributed, but the award itself was the product of the effort of the section I had at that time.\\n\\n From a data systems standpoint in providing information to the flight control team, what the Apollo 13 explosion did to us, it basically disrupted communications, because it damaged a high-gain antenna, etc. So we spent a lot of time reconfiguring the system to come up with a configuration that would allow us to continuously communicate with the Apollo 13, and they ended up migrating to the LM. So we had to reconfigure the whole system from a communications standpoint and the S-band system at the remote sites to reestablish that communication. So that really was my team’s primary [action], was to reestablish that communication so that the mission could go on and the crew could communicate to the ground, the ground could communicate to the crew, and the ground could monitor the LM systems, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any problems making that change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it just took time. Yes. Some of the people I had had excellent knowledge of the unified S-band systems, etc. So it took that knowledge. I’m sure they tried some things that didn’t exactly work the way they thought it was going to work, so they had to follow another—can I take a break for a minute?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, the main contribution of myself and my team was mainly just to provide capability of the people in the Mission Control Center to communicate with the spacecraft with its problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other memories of any Apollo missions that you’d like to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.19387859316037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it just took time. Yes. Some of the people I had had excellent knowledge of the unified S-band systems, etc. So it took that knowledge. I’m sure they tried some things that didn’t exactly work the way they thought it was going to work, so they had to follow another—can I take a break for a minute?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, the main contribution of myself and my team was mainly just to provide capability of the people in the Mission Control Center to communicate with the spacecraft with its problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other memories of any Apollo missions that you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess my feeling was, every flight sort of had something new. It’s like—and I can’t remember which flight it was on, is when we established the capability to transmit video from the ground. I think one of the first things we did, we provided video from the Moon’s lunar surface of the LM taking off as it was going back to rendezvous with the CSM [Command and Service Module]. That was a new capability. You didn’t know what it was going to look like. You were hoping everything was going to work the way you built the system, etc. Then watching every launch, there’s always that excitement of the launch, seeing it go, hoping, crossing your fingers that nothing goes wrong, etc.\\n\\n And as I said, for the entire Apollo Program, I spent the entire—every day I was there. I didn’t go home. Usually those flights were short enough that my physical body kept up with it. But I generally, when it was over, I’d crash. It’d take me at least twenty-four hours to recover. I couldn’t do it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty fast recovery."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.104309547955967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, the main contribution of myself and my team was mainly just to provide capability of the people in the Mission Control Center to communicate with the spacecraft with its problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other memories of any Apollo missions that you’d like to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess my feeling was, every flight sort of had something new. It’s like—and I can’t remember which flight it was on, is when we established the capability to transmit video from the ground. I think one of the first things we did, we provided video from the Moon’s lunar surface of the LM taking off as it was going back to rendezvous with the CSM [Command and Service Module]. That was a new capability. You didn’t know what it was going to look like. You were hoping everything was going to work the way you built the system, etc. Then watching every launch, there’s always that excitement of the launch, seeing it go, hoping, crossing your fingers that nothing goes wrong, etc.\\n\\n And as I said, for the entire Apollo Program, I spent the entire—every day I was there. I didn’t go home. Usually those flights were short enough that my physical body kept up with it. But I generally, when it was over, I’d crash. It’d take me at least twenty-four hours to recover. I couldn’t do it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty fast recovery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn’t do it today. But it was just me. I wanted to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an exciting time. In ’72, you became the technical assistant for the Ground Data Systems Division."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.338121719951076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess my feeling was, every flight sort of had something new. It’s like—and I can’t remember which flight it was on, is when we established the capability to transmit video from the ground. I think one of the first things we did, we provided video from the Moon’s lunar surface of the LM taking off as it was going back to rendezvous with the CSM [Command and Service Module]. That was a new capability. You didn’t know what it was going to look like. You were hoping everything was going to work the way you built the system, etc. Then watching every launch, there’s always that excitement of the launch, seeing it go, hoping, crossing your fingers that nothing goes wrong, etc.\\n\\n And as I said, for the entire Apollo Program, I spent the entire—every day I was there. I didn’t go home. Usually those flights were short enough that my physical body kept up with it. But I generally, when it was over, I’d crash. It’d take me at least twenty-four hours to recover. I couldn’t do it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pretty fast recovery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn’t do it today. But it was just me. I wanted to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an exciting time. In ’72, you became the technical assistant for the Ground Data Systems Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your basic duties in that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 32.597913022167866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn’t do it today. But it was just me. I wanted to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was an exciting time. In ’72, you became the technical assistant for the Ground Data Systems Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your basic duties in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seventy-two, we were in the time period where we were starting to get ready and change things in the control center for Skylab. If my memory is good, we had to go through an ops readiness review, to say that the control center, all of its procedures and everything was in place to support that program. And one of my jobs was to manage getting everything we had to have, get together to go through that ops readiness review, and I think it was with Headquarters personnel that we had to conduct a review. We had to provide certification, proof of certification that everything had been done and checked out, okay, and that was my primary role. If I remember right, I was only in that position for a short period of time, because I think on January 1st of ’73, I became the Branch Chief for the Ops Support Branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the extended missions for Skylab affect Mission Control?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.491103524108915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had problems with the radiator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that cause any problems for the network?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My recollection is no. As usual, when you get an event like that, it’s going to change requirements, and with requirements changes, that will require you to do something to the network, but I don’t recall any extensive problems with our ability to get data, etc., other than that caused, I think, caused Skylab cooling problems and that kind of stuff, which might have impacted their onboard systems, etc. But from a ground standpoint, it was doing routine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what you did the first few weeks after launch of Skylab 1?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It was about the time we were getting in trying to figure out why we were having data problems, and I’m losing a little bit relative to going back that far and remembering specifics. I’m not sure what the cooling and the changes they had to make to basically restore capabilities from a systems viewpoint, I’m not sure that that initial event didn’t curtail the initial plans relative to run the instruments and that kind of stuff with experiments, because I’m sure the crew was doing a lot of other things, trying to—but I can’t remember anything specifically about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was happening in the Mission Control Center with the Skylab missions going and then the preparations for the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.45245604583454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found, generally in my group, there was, generally one to two people on the Russian side that interfaced with—they were very competent. That was my assessment. We established good working relationships, etc. The nice thing about going to Russia at that time was when we were over there, they basically treated us like royalty. They wined and dined us, took us places. We got together after hours, on weekends. I spent a total of four weeks over there, and it was a very enjoyable four weeks. Had a lot of work, but got around and toured Moscow [U.S.S.R.] and some of the countryside, because on the weekend they’d take us out of town to some historical aspect of Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What difficulties were there for you and your group in linking these two control centers to provide constant communication with the spacecrafts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One we agreed to protocols, etc., it was a matter of then sitting down and agreeing to what kind of support was going to be provided, what communications requirements were required. Of course, that required interfaces back to our side to see what they wanted to be able to do. And then once you understood that, it was a matter of submitting the requirements to the communications companies to meet, okay. We had to agree on operational procedures, and who had what responsibilities for what and all that kind of stuff, but that’s standard stuff that you have in any mission, manned spaceflight mission. There’s a lot of effort spent in just working out the details of procedures. Everything is written out in detail, specifically who’s going to do what, what you’re going to do next, etc. Discipline is very strong relative to making sure you follow what you agree to do and documenting your procedures step-by-step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our research also indicates that you were Chief of the Operations Integration Branch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became Branch Chief at the start of Skylab, January of ’73. I think the Branch then was Ops Support Branch. Then if your records say there was a different name, it was just a reorganization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you, your biographical sheet says you were responsible for the Goddard Spaceflight Center tracking network support requirements."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.613840050927266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One we agreed to protocols, etc., it was a matter of then sitting down and agreeing to what kind of support was going to be provided, what communications requirements were required. Of course, that required interfaces back to our side to see what they wanted to be able to do. And then once you understood that, it was a matter of submitting the requirements to the communications companies to meet, okay. We had to agree on operational procedures, and who had what responsibilities for what and all that kind of stuff, but that’s standard stuff that you have in any mission, manned spaceflight mission. There’s a lot of effort spent in just working out the details of procedures. Everything is written out in detail, specifically who’s going to do what, what you’re going to do next, etc. Discipline is very strong relative to making sure you follow what you agree to do and documenting your procedures step-by-step."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our research also indicates that you were Chief of the Operations Integration Branch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became Branch Chief at the start of Skylab, January of ’73. I think the Branch then was Ops Support Branch. Then if your records say there was a different name, it was just a reorganization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask you, your biographical sheet says you were responsible for the Goddard Spaceflight Center tracking network support requirements."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was Goddard’s role at the time in relation—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.429213430538955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was responsible for the development and sustaining of all of the systems in the control center. It was also responsible for the maintenance and operations of the control center, the flight-to-flight reconfiguration, and the control of the data systems when they were supporting a mission to get the data that was required by the mission to execute to plan. So the Ground Data Systems Division had total responsibility for the Mission Control Center, other than the actual flight control function."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, right before you left NASA, you started working for the Systems Development Division. How did that change come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That came about as a result of a NASA reorganization to align JSC organization to the STSOC contract. That’s Space Transportation System Operations Contract. And in that, what happened was in the Mission Support Directorate we had—GDSD [Ground Data Systems Division] had Mission Control Center. We had a Flight Simulations Division. They had the same responsibilities for the flight simulators. In the reorganization, Mission Support Directorate was going to retain the development responsibility for all those facilities, and Mission Ops Directorate was going to pick up all of the operations [and] sustaining. So what happened was, my equivalent over in the Flight Simulations Division decided he wanted to stay on the ops side, and by the fact that my leaning was probably more towards development by that time, decided I was going to keep the development. So he took my Mission Control Center stuff, okay, the ops and sustaining engineering part of it, and I took his simulation system development responsibilities. So that’s what SDD became, Systems Development Division, for flight simulations and control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you actually begin working for the United Space Alliance [USA]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s one correction. I’ve never worked for USA. I went to work for STSOC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you officially leave NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 26.032459367265506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That came about as a result of a NASA reorganization to align JSC organization to the STSOC contract. That’s Space Transportation System Operations Contract. And in that, what happened was in the Mission Support Directorate we had—GDSD [Ground Data Systems Division] had Mission Control Center. We had a Flight Simulations Division. They had the same responsibilities for the flight simulators. In the reorganization, Mission Support Directorate was going to retain the development responsibility for all those facilities, and Mission Ops Directorate was going to pick up all of the operations [and] sustaining. So what happened was, my equivalent over in the Flight Simulations Division decided he wanted to stay on the ops side, and by the fact that my leaning was probably more towards development by that time, decided I was going to keep the development. So he took my Mission Control Center stuff, okay, the ops and sustaining engineering part of it, and I took his simulation system development responsibilities. So that’s what SDD became, Systems Development Division, for flight simulations and control center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you actually begin working for the United Space Alliance [USA]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s one correction. I’ve never worked for USA. I went to work for STSOC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you officially leave NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "February of 1987, the 16th, in fact, a government holiday that year. I got questioned about my mental capacity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you start doing as a contractor?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.817777383639864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, we had to learn a lot of things. One, we wanted to go to a fiber optic system from a copper network configuration because of the amount of bandwidth you can get across the fiber optics. And there’s a lot of things you’ve got to understand when you splice fiber optics. There’s a definite technique to make it work so that you don’t—you get the communications path you need. We had to address the issues of configuration management, because you spread the configuration management from one organization to basically every flight control position. So you had to learn how to control the configuration of the system through there.\\n\\n And the second thing is—not the second thing—is that you had to understand the languages. The software languages that were using for the workstation are different than a host computer, etc."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned that the software maintenance for the Mission Control Center was upwards of 100 million dollars a year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The total budget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The total budget for control center, and that was when it was—it was the GDSD Division, it was roughly 100 million. That included dollars for development. It included dollars for sustaining engineering on the systems, and the maintenance and operations of the control center. But a significant part of that, because there’s universal algorithms that says that if you’re providing sustaining engineering on a piece of software, depending on the language that the software’s coded in, one programmer can sustain X-thousand lines of code. Well, the control center, the Mission Control Center’s host computer had millions of lines of code, and most of the code was machine code. We used a standard number, 45,000 lines of code per [programmer], and our staff was built on that algorithm. So that led to not an insignificant staff just to support the software, and their role primarily was to, if you got a discrepancy, an error in the software, to go fix it. And the move to distributive—the software-sustaining costs didn’t go down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That was my question."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.170095535357856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The total budget for control center, and that was when it was—it was the GDSD Division, it was roughly 100 million. That included dollars for development. It included dollars for sustaining engineering on the systems, and the maintenance and operations of the control center. But a significant part of that, because there’s universal algorithms that says that if you’re providing sustaining engineering on a piece of software, depending on the language that the software’s coded in, one programmer can sustain X-thousand lines of code. Well, the control center, the Mission Control Center’s host computer had millions of lines of code, and most of the code was machine code. We used a standard number, 45,000 lines of code per [programmer], and our staff was built on that algorithm. So that led to not an insignificant staff just to support the software, and their role primarily was to, if you got a discrepancy, an error in the software, to go fix it. And the move to distributive—the software-sustaining costs didn’t go down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That was my question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just made it appear from the standpoint of Code B, who’s the comptroller at Headquarters. He couldn’t see a big number of people just to support the mission computer software. He’d have to look deeper down to see a little bit of software support sustaining for this workstation, this, you know. So it was a sleight of hand or whatever you want to call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gaming the system a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like ask you two general questions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.300106150397617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You just made it appear from the standpoint of Code B, who’s the comptroller at Headquarters. He couldn’t see a big number of people just to support the mission computer software. He’d have to look deeper down to see a little bit of software support sustaining for this workstation, this, you know. So it was a sleight of hand or whatever you want to call it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gaming the system a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like ask you two general questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think has been your most challenging milestone in working for NASA or the space agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.055995210000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re into our second contract out here. The initial contract I was officially on the contract as Deputy Program Manager. As a part of our proposal strategy, we decided we wanted to eliminate the [Deputy] Program Manager, so I become the Business Manager. Officially, I am the Business Manager, but I still do the Deputy function. I’m the senior old man, you know. Been around the circle several times. But basically as Business Manager. And it’s basic focusing on the contract, the financials and all that kind of stuff. And I love numbers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a bit of a change, moving from working with Mission Control to moving into being a Business Manager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, but it’s a lot of the same things. I miss the ops environment, but one of my—probably the things I got known for was my ability to troubleshoot things, and it’s just the approach I took. I thoroughly understand the system. I know what each component of the system contribute to the whole. So if you’ve got problems, you look for the changes in patterns, and you can do the same thing with finance and numbers.\\n\\n We got huge amounts of financial data, and just looking at the data with the knowledge of what the system is, can allow you to pick up problems. There’s always hidden information in all the data you get. To me, it’s a mental challenge to go find that information. Sort of turns me on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you enjoy it. If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have a couple. I want to go back to more the Apollo time. You mentioned simulations a couple of times, and I was just wondering if you could tell me what your role of you and your group were during the mission simulations, and specifically with Apollo 13, had you simulated the problems that you had to overcome after the explosion?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.062216900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, but it’s a lot of the same things. I miss the ops environment, but one of my—probably the things I got known for was my ability to troubleshoot things, and it’s just the approach I took. I thoroughly understand the system. I know what each component of the system contribute to the whole. So if you’ve got problems, you look for the changes in patterns, and you can do the same thing with finance and numbers.\\n\\n We got huge amounts of financial data, and just looking at the data with the knowledge of what the system is, can allow you to pick up problems. There’s always hidden information in all the data you get. To me, it’s a mental challenge to go find that information. Sort of turns me on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you enjoy it. If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask Sandra if she has any questions for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have a couple. I want to go back to more the Apollo time. You mentioned simulations a couple of times, and I was just wondering if you could tell me what your role of you and your group were during the mission simulations, and specifically with Apollo 13, had you simulated the problems that you had to overcome after the explosion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that case, no. But the simulations, I don’t know what they do today, but back when I was still there, we probably supported at least a minimum of 150 hours of simulations for every mission. In general, during those simulations, they insert problems, but I don’t recall us ever inserting a problem where you had an explosion and you had to do a transfer from one vehicle to the other vehicle, etc. I’d [have] to say no, we didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get a chance to travel to any of the remote communication sites?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00373:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 8.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mentioned technically I found them to be pretty danged knowledgeable. Now, if you looked at their systems—one of the things we were able to do, they have an exposé or exposition complex—I think it’s out on the north side of Moscow—where they have buildings where they have on display all the products they produced, and one of those buildings had the actual Soyuz vehicle. So one afternoon, me and my Russian counterpart went out there. My perception from that was—when I was out there, I went and looked at their computers and went and looked at their test equipment. It looked like the test equipment—like Hewlett Packard [Company], another example, that they just carbon-copied us. The computer they had on display, it looked like a Univac 1218 that we used in the early 1960s at the remote site. You know, it’s one of the naval data—I can’t remember. It was one of the computers that Univac developed for the Navy.\\n\\n And then looking at the Soyuz, their approach to things, whereas we tend to go to micronization of component systems, etc., you know, brute force. A lot of metal, heavy, big, thick, whereas we tend to—but the people I worked with I found to be very competent, from an engineering discipline standpoint, etc. I don’t think there was—from a technology standpoint, I may be wrong, but I don’t believe they was anywhere close to us from a technology standpoint. But a good engineer, if you give him the technology, it ain’t going to take him long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close, do you have any last words or anything else you want to touch on that we didn’t touch on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a—you don’t have to record this. I had an interesting incident while I was in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want me to stop it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00312:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 38.91594310876792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For pathogens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For pathogens, I’m sorry. And you said that the date on that was July of ’63?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The date on the Apollo document is ’63. The date on the Gemini specs was ’63. So they do coincide. July of ’63."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell me how this—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, wait. I take that back. The critical control point of the reliability document was July ’63. The NASA documents on foods, the one I wrote for Gemini, which was used for Apollo, was 1964, 14th of August. It was the one that carried—there were several of them with different dates. I don’t know how they archived it, if they archived it at all, but the code on it was CSD, meaning Crew Systems Division, dash G, meaning Gemini, dash 079 was the major food descriptions. There were several documents, ten of them, I think, dealing with different aspects of the whole delivery system. Those were used with Gemini, and then they were used as the foundation document for the Apollo contract, the Request for Proposal, the RFP."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wonder if you could tell me how this quality control program differed from those that were used by industry prior to this time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00312:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.71740230719381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in Building 4 we were in the same building. I mean, I’d run into them in the hallway and different places and different things. I wasn’t the type that pestered anybody. I mean, if I needed to know something, I would ask.\\n\\n It was easier to solve problems then, because you didn’t have the complexity that automatically comes with any new agency. I mean, when I was with NASA, I had my own travel vouchers. I could go anywhere in the world on my signature. Find a civil service who can do that today. You won’t find very many. They have to go through the travel office to get their tickets or their e-ticket or whatever it is.\\n\\n People misused it, misused the privileges, and because we wanted to roll, the average age was thirty-five. We came from everywhere, every agency you can think of. We were assigned rent-a-cars. When we got into airports, we had a Hertz or whatever car. Sometimes, once in a while, we had government cars. Didn’t make any difference. But somebody goes parading around with them after hours, it’s against the rules. So the rules start getting written, and I’m sure there’s a manual over there that’s thicker than can be that tells you what you can’t do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We need to take a break for just a second to change our tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I just had a couple more questions for you. You have such an interesting career. I wish that we had more time to talk with you about your other experiments and so many of these other items that you were working on.\\n\\n [Tape change]\n\nLet’s see. You were assigned to the Biomedical Research Office at MSC, according to your biosheet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not originally. Originally I don’t think it was called that. I was just part of Crew Systems Division."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did that office change from the time you arrived at MSC until the time you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00312:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.274002000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you interviewed her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. Unfortunately, she passed away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there’s a couple of other people that passed away. Come to think of it, I was told that some years ago, and I’d forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we also tried to interview Malcolm Smith and learned that he passed away last summer."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00312:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 36.2642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there’s a couple of other people that passed away. Come to think of it, I was told that some years ago, and I’d forgotten."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and we also tried to interview Malcolm Smith and learned that he passed away last summer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my. Because he went off and became an independent consultant. I don’t know if he came back to NASA or not. Malcolm was very interesting. I mean, he was more a veterinarian. He got a master’s degree. He was a veterinarian who had chosen to get a master’s degree in food technology, because veterinarians are in charge of all the military sanitation of all its agencies. So he was trained from that point of view, so he was helpful. But he knew more about foods than he knew anything about experiments and nutrition or anything like that. Even though you’d think a veterinarian would, but he didn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I just had a couple more questions for you. Earlier you had talked about botulism and some cases that had occurred in the 1970s. As a result of this breakout of botulism in the early 1970s, the FDA [Food and Drug Administration] actually began to use HACCP in low-acid canning food regulations. I was wondering, were you ever contacted by the FDA to talk about your own experience at NASA with these concepts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00229:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.62590000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the meantime though were you still working on your Hubble missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before that gap you only had 5 months [before launch] and now you have 33 plus months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA put that time to good use on the Hubble. Since Hubble was going to be on the ground for another three or four years basically in a clean room in California, NASA did invest a little bit more in making the Hubble more serviceable, doing labeling, and making sure that the right kind of electrical connectors that could be manipulated by a gloved hands, all the serviceability features were added to the Hubble design in the interim. NASA made good use of that time. Hubble was basically done in January of 1986. It was about to be shipped to the Cape when the accident happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you during the [STS-31] mission? Were you able to work during the deployment? Or were you off at school or part of the whole deployment effort?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00229:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.251000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before that gap you only had 5 months [before launch] and now you have 33 plus months."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA put that time to good use on the Hubble. Since Hubble was going to be on the ground for another three or four years basically in a clean room in California, NASA did invest a little bit more in making the Hubble more serviceable, doing labeling, and making sure that the right kind of electrical connectors that could be manipulated by a gloved hands, all the serviceability features were added to the Hubble design in the interim. NASA made good use of that time. Hubble was basically done in January of 1986. It was about to be shipped to the Cape when the accident happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you during the [STS-31] mission? Were you able to work during the deployment? Or were you off at school or part of the whole deployment effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a payload officer in Mission Control during the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to stay during the whole mission and not just parts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00229:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 36, "return_to_go": 51.39, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA put that time to good use on the Hubble. Since Hubble was going to be on the ground for another three or four years basically in a clean room in California, NASA did invest a little bit more in making the Hubble more serviceable, doing labeling, and making sure that the right kind of electrical connectors that could be manipulated by a gloved hands, all the serviceability features were added to the Hubble design in the interim. NASA made good use of that time. Hubble was basically done in January of 1986. It was about to be shipped to the Cape when the accident happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you during the [STS-31] mission? Were you able to work during the deployment? Or were you off at school or part of the whole deployment effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a payload officer in Mission Control during the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to stay during the whole mission and not just parts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked the whole mission, yes. When there were missions or sims [simulations] to do, if it interfered with classes, I just didn’t go to class. By the deploy mission I had my degree, because they wouldn’t let me be payload officer if I was a contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the whole feeling of being able to be there and see your work actually move into history. It had other aspects of this is the farthest the Shuttle had ever gone. You worked problems through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 36.561215807662784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was number six."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were definitely there at the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there at the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your duties, as you understood them, when you started in your position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was responsible for Procurement and NASA Property. There were two other individuals in the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What sorts of activities were going on at that time, or had anything started up here, or were you just trying to get things sorted out and get things started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 31.510769406588604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hired Al Duran to head the procurement function. He was with me all through the years, and later hired a secretary. It turns out both of them were Spanish and later on when we had to hire a percentage of minorities in our workforce, I almost met the requirement for the whole site. But that was a continuous problem over the next couple of years, to hire qualified people to meet our requirements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the numbers just gradually grew all the way through Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The numbers grew. Yes, I had the authority to hire all I needed, and my supervisor didn’t question when I told him what I needed. At the peak, we had twenty-one in my office, and when I left, it was back down to seven or nine, which was actually a little bit less than minimum, in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Las Cruces had some dirt roads and the vendors weren’t used to having to deal with providing things quite as quickly as you needed them. What sort of other effects do you think White Sands Test Facility had on Las Cruces itself? Obviously, it is a larger town now, but do you thank they had something to do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, no question. The main industry in town at that time was the university [NMSU] and Stahmann’s Pecan Farm. They had approximately 5,000 employees. It was the largest pecan farm in the world. Other than that, we didn’t really have any heavy industry. I don’t remember, but it was several millions of dollars that we added, particularly in the housing industry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of relationship did White Sands have with Johnson Space Center at the beginning, or Manned Spacecraft Center, obviously, then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.51687582426391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were working in the state of the art and in many instances beyond the state of the art, as you were at JSC. We had to work with current knowledge, and design and build our facilities, which we did, based upon known requirements at the time. When I say “we,” I include JSC and NASA Headquarters. But it turns out, as the schedules developed and as we got into the testing phase, our facilities were undersigned, particularly in the capacities to hold the liquids, the propellants that were required.\\n\\n If all tests had gone as scheduled with the propellants that we had ordered, we didn’t have the capacity to unload them or to hold them without paying excess demurrage charges. Thank goodness, we had anomalies in the testing, which delayed the testing schedule, and gave us time to unload the propellants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a number of contractors and subcontractors working on site. What was the relationship between the civil servants and the contract personnel, as you remember it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the relationship was good. I don’t know what the contractors might have thought. We had a team that was just phenomenal. No one there was concerned about hours of work, what time you got to work, or when you went home. They didn’t ask for overtime, although a few people got it. I think that we were respected and accepted. We got along exceptionally well. I am sure we had small problems that anyone in testing operations would have, but overall it was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of your responsibilities was to evaluate the prime contractors and subcontractors while you were there. Can you describe that process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prior to the award fee type contracts, the office chiefs were responsible for the evaluation of the contractor work in their respective areas. These duties were delegated to the engineers and personnel who were assigned to monitor the work in their areas of responsibility. After award fee type contracts were issued, the evaluation process remained basically the same except the criteria for evaluation was established and issued as part of the contract. The evaluation consisted of both objective and subjective criteria and was evaluated in a daily basis with weekly scheduled meetings with the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point were the regulations in place?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.24097313807101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the relationship was good. I don’t know what the contractors might have thought. We had a team that was just phenomenal. No one there was concerned about hours of work, what time you got to work, or when you went home. They didn’t ask for overtime, although a few people got it. I think that we were respected and accepted. We got along exceptionally well. I am sure we had small problems that anyone in testing operations would have, but overall it was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of your responsibilities was to evaluate the prime contractors and subcontractors while you were there. Can you describe that process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prior to the award fee type contracts, the office chiefs were responsible for the evaluation of the contractor work in their respective areas. These duties were delegated to the engineers and personnel who were assigned to monitor the work in their areas of responsibility. After award fee type contracts were issued, the evaluation process remained basically the same except the criteria for evaluation was established and issued as part of the contract. The evaluation consisted of both objective and subjective criteria and was evaluated in a daily basis with weekly scheduled meetings with the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point were the regulations in place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an evolving type thing. They weren’t just sent to us, the came to us as they were formulated. WSTF had a Procedures Board, which was made up of the office chiefs and the manager. We wrote internal procedures called WSTFIs [White Sands Test Facility Internal Procedures] and as it became necessary or there were problems, we would write a new procedure. The board met on a weekly basis to write new regulations. JSCIs [Johnson Space Center Internal Procedures] were the implementing instructions of the Headquarters, and, of course, we complied with those as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, Grumman and North American, being the prime contractors, and you mentioned that the people that were there sometimes may have felt like they weren’t sure about NASA having complete control, but what type of relationship did your office have with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 18.045525708967787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Prior to the award fee type contracts, the office chiefs were responsible for the evaluation of the contractor work in their respective areas. These duties were delegated to the engineers and personnel who were assigned to monitor the work in their areas of responsibility. After award fee type contracts were issued, the evaluation process remained basically the same except the criteria for evaluation was established and issued as part of the contract. The evaluation consisted of both objective and subjective criteria and was evaluated in a daily basis with weekly scheduled meetings with the contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point were the regulations in place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an evolving type thing. They weren’t just sent to us, the came to us as they were formulated. WSTF had a Procedures Board, which was made up of the office chiefs and the manager. We wrote internal procedures called WSTFIs [White Sands Test Facility Internal Procedures] and as it became necessary or there were problems, we would write a new procedure. The board met on a weekly basis to write new regulations. JSCIs [Johnson Space Center Internal Procedures] were the implementing instructions of the Headquarters, and, of course, we complied with those as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, Grumman and North American, being the prime contractors, and you mentioned that the people that were there sometimes may have felt like they weren’t sure about NASA having complete control, but what type of relationship did your office have with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent, particularly with North American, which was the most active in the early stages. The manager from North American had a technical background as most of NASA personnel. North American Administrator understood what had to be done and he would come to me and ask, “How can we resolve this?” We would resolve the problem between us. We would go back to our respective managers with our solution and attempt to convince them this was the way it should be done. That is how we resolved many problems and the system worked beautifully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other companies that you worked closely with on a regular basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.383917454408651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was an evolving type thing. They weren’t just sent to us, the came to us as they were formulated. WSTF had a Procedures Board, which was made up of the office chiefs and the manager. We wrote internal procedures called WSTFIs [White Sands Test Facility Internal Procedures] and as it became necessary or there were problems, we would write a new procedure. The board met on a weekly basis to write new regulations. JSCIs [Johnson Space Center Internal Procedures] were the implementing instructions of the Headquarters, and, of course, we complied with those as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, Grumman and North American, being the prime contractors, and you mentioned that the people that were there sometimes may have felt like they weren’t sure about NASA having complete control, but what type of relationship did your office have with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent, particularly with North American, which was the most active in the early stages. The manager from North American had a technical background as most of NASA personnel. North American Administrator understood what had to be done and he would come to me and ask, “How can we resolve this?” We would resolve the problem between us. We would go back to our respective managers with our solution and attempt to convince them this was the way it should be done. That is how we resolved many problems and the system worked beautifully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other companies that you worked closely with on a regular basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Grumman Aircraft. But those contracts were awarded out of JSC. The Grumman Contracting Officer was Jim Neal, and Hank Wychek was the Contracting Officer for North American. I really didn’t have any problem from that standpoint, although I did stay in contact with both Jim and Hank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the relationship of the Procurement Office at White Sands with other NASA centers and NASA Headquarters?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.426574949342946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excellent, particularly with North American, which was the most active in the early stages. The manager from North American had a technical background as most of NASA personnel. North American Administrator understood what had to be done and he would come to me and ask, “How can we resolve this?” We would resolve the problem between us. We would go back to our respective managers with our solution and attempt to convince them this was the way it should be done. That is how we resolved many problems and the system worked beautifully."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other companies that you worked closely with on a regular basis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Grumman Aircraft. But those contracts were awarded out of JSC. The Grumman Contracting Officer was Jim Neal, and Hank Wychek was the Contracting Officer for North American. I really didn’t have any problem from that standpoint, although I did stay in contact with both Jim and Hank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the relationship of the Procurement Office at White Sands with other NASA centers and NASA Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I had a problem that I didn’t know how to handle, I usually called J. P. Harris at JSC procurement office, or the legal office, depending on the nature of the problem. They may suggest to me to call either NASA Kennedy Space Center, FL or one of the other centers who had handled similar problems. Other than that, we handled 95 to 98 percent of everything at WSTF or JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about Apollo for a minute, the actual program itself. Of course, the Apollo 1 fire. Can you tell us what kind of effect that had on White Sands and your office in particular?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.477253023880181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I had a problem that I didn’t know how to handle, I usually called J. P. Harris at JSC procurement office, or the legal office, depending on the nature of the problem. They may suggest to me to call either NASA Kennedy Space Center, FL or one of the other centers who had handled similar problems. Other than that, we handled 95 to 98 percent of everything at WSTF or JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about Apollo for a minute, the actual program itself. Of course, the Apollo 1 fire. Can you tell us what kind of effect that had on White Sands and your office in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were so involved with total requirements; we attended staff meetings every week from the time I was at WSFT. Plus, I spent 50 to 60 percent of my time in meetings for almost the entire time. I was involved with many aspects of the WSTF requirements and I knew what was going on over most of the site. When that came along, we had not done flammability testing. NASA was operating in 100 percent oxygen environment, and we had not tested the materials, nor did we have a requirement at that time to test flammability of the wiring inside the command module. When that happened, the requirement was given to the laboratory to perform the testing. Have you talked to Dave Pippen yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave is the individual you need to talk with. He did the flammability testing. The laboratory developed the testing equipment. No one had ever done that type of testing before, to my knowledge. Dave developed the procedures for testing and then the lab immediately started performing testing on the materials. JSC engineers would write what needed to be tested and how they wanted it tested, and the environment they wanted the testing performed. The laboratory then did the testing. The only way it affected the Administration Office was added procurement to support the testing. I didn’t see very much difference in the way we were normally operating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even with building the test area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.974725582089089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We were so involved with total requirements; we attended staff meetings every week from the time I was at WSFT. Plus, I spent 50 to 60 percent of my time in meetings for almost the entire time. I was involved with many aspects of the WSTF requirements and I knew what was going on over most of the site. When that came along, we had not done flammability testing. NASA was operating in 100 percent oxygen environment, and we had not tested the materials, nor did we have a requirement at that time to test flammability of the wiring inside the command module. When that happened, the requirement was given to the laboratory to perform the testing. Have you talked to Dave Pippen yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave is the individual you need to talk with. He did the flammability testing. The laboratory developed the testing equipment. No one had ever done that type of testing before, to my knowledge. Dave developed the procedures for testing and then the lab immediately started performing testing on the materials. JSC engineers would write what needed to be tested and how they wanted it tested, and the environment they wanted the testing performed. The laboratory then did the testing. The only way it affected the Administration Office was added procurement to support the testing. I didn’t see very much difference in the way we were normally operating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even with building the test area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The test areas themselves, yes. We issued the contracts on some of the testing equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a feeling of commitment in the whole facility to get it working?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.416361757876766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave is the individual you need to talk with. He did the flammability testing. The laboratory developed the testing equipment. No one had ever done that type of testing before, to my knowledge. Dave developed the procedures for testing and then the lab immediately started performing testing on the materials. JSC engineers would write what needed to be tested and how they wanted it tested, and the environment they wanted the testing performed. The laboratory then did the testing. The only way it affected the Administration Office was added procurement to support the testing. I didn’t see very much difference in the way we were normally operating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even with building the test area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The test areas themselves, yes. We issued the contracts on some of the testing equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a feeling of commitment in the whole facility to get it working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, and it continued to be so up until after the Apollo Program. It was quite a letdown after the Apollo Program. The work had been quite exciting, and everyone was actually proud to be a part of it. But when the Shuttle came along, we were interested in doing it, of course, but the enthusiasm wasn’t there to the same extent as in Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did the unions come in, time-wise?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.795957508751962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The test areas themselves, yes. We issued the contracts on some of the testing equipment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a feeling of commitment in the whole facility to get it working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, and it continued to be so up until after the Apollo Program. It was quite a letdown after the Apollo Program. The work had been quite exciting, and everyone was actually proud to be a part of it. But when the Shuttle came along, we were interested in doing it, of course, but the enthusiasm wasn’t there to the same extent as in Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did the unions come in, time-wise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was during the time Dynaelectron was the Maintenance and Operations Contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it during the Apollo Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2177305652799575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, and it continued to be so up until after the Apollo Program. It was quite a letdown after the Apollo Program. The work had been quite exciting, and everyone was actually proud to be a part of it. But when the Shuttle came along, we were interested in doing it, of course, but the enthusiasm wasn’t there to the same extent as in Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did the unions come in, time-wise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was during the time Dynaelectron was the Maintenance and Operations Contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it during the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been at the end of the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1968, Martin L. Raines recommended to George M. Low that they start phasing down the contractor operations. What type of effect did that have on the test facility and the morale and day-to-day activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.686367294755508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was during the time Dynaelectron was the Maintenance and Operations Contractor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it during the Apollo Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been at the end of the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1968, Martin L. Raines recommended to George M. Low that they start phasing down the contractor operations. What type of effect did that have on the test facility and the morale and day-to-day activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, we had people that were concerned. We had built up around 2,100 people at that time. We may have been a little overstaffed based upon the current testing requirements. Past experience has shown you start laying off personnel, productivity increases. I think we actually saw a little productivity increase from the initial layoff. Morale stayed high. We didn’t see any additional, significant problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1969, you headed the White Sands Test Facility’s Administration Office."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.207074771950564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might have been at the end of the Apollo Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1968, Martin L. Raines recommended to George M. Low that they start phasing down the contractor operations. What type of effect did that have on the test facility and the morale and day-to-day activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, we had people that were concerned. We had built up around 2,100 people at that time. We may have been a little overstaffed based upon the current testing requirements. Past experience has shown you start laying off personnel, productivity increases. I think we actually saw a little productivity increase from the initial layoff. Morale stayed high. We didn’t see any additional, significant problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1969, you headed the White Sands Test Facility’s Administration Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What changed as far as your job duties?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.785638635500627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course, we had people that were concerned. We had built up around 2,100 people at that time. We may have been a little overstaffed based upon the current testing requirements. Past experience has shown you start laying off personnel, productivity increases. I think we actually saw a little productivity increase from the initial layoff. Morale stayed high. We didn’t see any additional, significant problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1969, you headed the White Sands Test Facility’s Administration Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What changed as far as your job duties?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a lot more responsibility. The Administration Office was assigned most of the non-technical duties. I had procurement, contract administration, subcontracts; property and supply; budgets; financial management; personnel; reproduction; travel; communications; transportation; and mail service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did you have supporting you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.142763747531638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a lot more responsibility. The Administration Office was assigned most of the non-technical duties. I had procurement, contract administration, subcontracts; property and supply; budgets; financial management; personnel; reproduction; travel; communications; transportation; and mail service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did you have supporting you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Including me, we had twenty-one people, which was minimal. I can’t overemphasize this was a group effort, what I called a team concept. We truly had a good team. They performed the work in an outstanding manner with very little complaint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the office organized? How were those twenty-one people organized under you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.825293052812931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Including me, we had twenty-one people, which was minimal. I can’t overemphasize this was a group effort, what I called a team concept. We truly had a good team. They performed the work in an outstanding manner with very little complaint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the office organized? How were those twenty-one people organized under you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Administration Office consisted of procurement, contract administration, property, communications, transportation, mail, financial management and budget, travel and site personnel, and other duties as assigned. The duties were assigned to the branches, Procurement, Contract Administration and Financial Management and Budget. Personnel and Travel were a staff function to my office and Transportation and Communications were assigned to the Property Officer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any personnel issues or anything that you can remember during your time there that you dealt with specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.583658947569924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Including me, we had twenty-one people, which was minimal. I can’t overemphasize this was a group effort, what I called a team concept. We truly had a good team. They performed the work in an outstanding manner with very little complaint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the office organized? How were those twenty-one people organized under you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Administration Office consisted of procurement, contract administration, property, communications, transportation, mail, financial management and budget, travel and site personnel, and other duties as assigned. The duties were assigned to the branches, Procurement, Contract Administration and Financial Management and Budget. Personnel and Travel were a staff function to my office and Transportation and Communications were assigned to the Property Officer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any personnel issues or anything that you can remember during your time there that you dealt with specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you want to mention? [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.092954386188804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Administration Office consisted of procurement, contract administration, property, communications, transportation, mail, financial management and budget, travel and site personnel, and other duties as assigned. The duties were assigned to the branches, Procurement, Contract Administration and Financial Management and Budget. Personnel and Travel were a staff function to my office and Transportation and Communications were assigned to the Property Officer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any personnel issues or anything that you can remember during your time there that you dealt with specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you want to mention? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If personnel from the contractors, Propulsion Office, Facilities Office, or the Laboratory had a problem that they didn’t feel was being addressed or solved, they came to see me. They knew their issue would be kept confidential and every effort would be made to correct or settle the issue. We tried to resolve a personnel issue in-house and were very successful in doing so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1970, I believe NASA planned to close White Sands. What were your thoughts about that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4366159846542272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything you want to mention? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If personnel from the contractors, Propulsion Office, Facilities Office, or the Laboratory had a problem that they didn’t feel was being addressed or solved, they came to see me. They knew their issue would be kept confidential and every effort would be made to correct or settle the issue. We tried to resolve a personnel issue in-house and were very successful in doing so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1970, I believe NASA planned to close White Sands. What were your thoughts about that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all recognized that the time would come when the Apollo Program work would be completed at WSTF. I was told not to expect to stay more than five years at the outset. But when it came, we were very concerned. I recognized that to close down a site, the people required to do that would be personnel and property administration. I wasn’t personally too concerned. I knew the office chiefs were going to try very hard to get additional work, and I knew that the work we had been doing was one of a kind and requirement would be needed to continue NASA’s work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that they told you, when you first began, not to expect to be here any longer than five years. Do you feel that that’s the way they were setting this place up, as something that would be closed down completely and not opened again, or just closed and then possibly opened again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8184622051713637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If personnel from the contractors, Propulsion Office, Facilities Office, or the Laboratory had a problem that they didn’t feel was being addressed or solved, they came to see me. They knew their issue would be kept confidential and every effort would be made to correct or settle the issue. We tried to resolve a personnel issue in-house and were very successful in doing so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1970, I believe NASA planned to close White Sands. What were your thoughts about that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all recognized that the time would come when the Apollo Program work would be completed at WSTF. I was told not to expect to stay more than five years at the outset. But when it came, we were very concerned. I recognized that to close down a site, the people required to do that would be personnel and property administration. I wasn’t personally too concerned. I knew the office chiefs were going to try very hard to get additional work, and I knew that the work we had been doing was one of a kind and requirement would be needed to continue NASA’s work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that they told you, when you first began, not to expect to be here any longer than five years. Do you feel that that’s the way they were setting this place up, as something that would be closed down completely and not opened again, or just closed and then possibly opened again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think at the time they made that statement, they felt that once the testing was completed, they would close down the facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of people did go back to Johnson?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.242735783523737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all recognized that the time would come when the Apollo Program work would be completed at WSTF. I was told not to expect to stay more than five years at the outset. But when it came, we were very concerned. I recognized that to close down a site, the people required to do that would be personnel and property administration. I wasn’t personally too concerned. I knew the office chiefs were going to try very hard to get additional work, and I knew that the work we had been doing was one of a kind and requirement would be needed to continue NASA’s work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that they told you, when you first began, not to expect to be here any longer than five years. Do you feel that that’s the way they were setting this place up, as something that would be closed down completely and not opened again, or just closed and then possibly opened again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think at the time they made that statement, they felt that once the testing was completed, they would close down the facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of people did go back to Johnson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And, in turn, came back to WSTF later on. The current manager is one of those. He started at WSTF, went to JSC and returned as manager."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did the total number go down to at that time? You mentioned it was, I think, 2,100 at one time. What it go down to? How small did it become?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.71415087058193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think at the time they made that statement, they felt that once the testing was completed, they would close down the facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a lot of people did go back to Johnson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And, in turn, came back to WSTF later on. The current manager is one of those. He started at WSTF, went to JSC and returned as manager."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did the total number go down to at that time? You mentioned it was, I think, 2,100 at one time. What it go down to? How small did it become?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am not absolutely sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can give an approximation."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.819939346397444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am not absolutely sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can give an approximation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am not sure of the exact number, but approximately 400."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That small?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Let’s talk about the Space Shuttle Program and then how it affected White Sands and the workforce out here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.466599273774937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am not sure of the exact number, but approximately 400."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That small?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Let’s talk about the Space Shuttle Program and then how it affected White Sands and the workforce out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as my office was concerned, if anything, we many have seen somewhat less requirements come through our office, but it really didn’t have any material effect on what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the atmosphere change? You mentioned before that with Apollo everyone had that goal in mind."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.1851103041943745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Let’s talk about the Space Shuttle Program and then how it affected White Sands and the workforce out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as my office was concerned, if anything, we many have seen somewhat less requirements come through our office, but it really didn’t have any material effect on what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the atmosphere change? You mentioned before that with Apollo everyone had that goal in mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because this was the time that I told you that they brought the unions in. If one directed a craft member to do work that was not within the scope of his craft, he could not perform the work. Up until that time, it didn’t make any difference if you were a carpenter or a plumber, if you needed the work done, whoever was available did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in your list of duties, budget was one of the things you were responsible for. So what were some of the differences between the Apollo Program and the Shuttle Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.761233671327083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as my office was concerned, if anything, we many have seen somewhat less requirements come through our office, but it really didn’t have any material effect on what we were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the atmosphere change? You mentioned before that with Apollo everyone had that goal in mind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because this was the time that I told you that they brought the unions in. If one directed a craft member to do work that was not within the scope of his craft, he could not perform the work. Up until that time, it didn’t make any difference if you were a carpenter or a plumber, if you needed the work done, whoever was available did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in your list of duties, budget was one of the things you were responsible for. So what were some of the differences between the Apollo Program and the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed a computerized cost-accounting system. All work was defined by task. All the work done on the site was authorized by test preparation sheet [TPS] or work order. When a requirement came in to us, it was in the test area, we would issue a TPS. The Budget Office used a funding number, assigned a task number, and every hour worked would be charged to that task. The computer printout was issued on a weekly basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the seventies, the budget with NASA was shrinking, and you had less to work with. How did you maintain your responsibilities out here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.401370745918981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because this was the time that I told you that they brought the unions in. If one directed a craft member to do work that was not within the scope of his craft, he could not perform the work. Up until that time, it didn’t make any difference if you were a carpenter or a plumber, if you needed the work done, whoever was available did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned in your list of duties, budget was one of the things you were responsible for. So what were some of the differences between the Apollo Program and the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed a computerized cost-accounting system. All work was defined by task. All the work done on the site was authorized by test preparation sheet [TPS] or work order. When a requirement came in to us, it was in the test area, we would issue a TPS. The Budget Office used a funding number, assigned a task number, and every hour worked would be charged to that task. The computer printout was issued on a weekly basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the seventies, the budget with NASA was shrinking, and you had less to work with. How did you maintain your responsibilities out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, like all organizations. In our meetings with the office chiefs and the managers, we reviewed all the work that had to be done and ask, “Where can we cut?” Normally, you never got an unanimous decision among the office chiefs, and in that case, the manager would just make an arbitrary cut. Then if we got into trouble, usually, you could get help. It was in everyone’s interest that each office meet their responsibilities. I will have to admit , it was cut pretty thin at times, but we always managed to meet our schedules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You touched on, a minute ago, the reimbursable work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.112634162132201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed a computerized cost-accounting system. All work was defined by task. All the work done on the site was authorized by test preparation sheet [TPS] or work order. When a requirement came in to us, it was in the test area, we would issue a TPS. The Budget Office used a funding number, assigned a task number, and every hour worked would be charged to that task. The computer printout was issued on a weekly basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the seventies, the budget with NASA was shrinking, and you had less to work with. How did you maintain your responsibilities out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, like all organizations. In our meetings with the office chiefs and the managers, we reviewed all the work that had to be done and ask, “Where can we cut?” Normally, you never got an unanimous decision among the office chiefs, and in that case, the manager would just make an arbitrary cut. Then if we got into trouble, usually, you could get help. It was in everyone’s interest that each office meet their responsibilities. I will have to admit , it was cut pretty thin at times, but we always managed to meet our schedules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You touched on, a minute ago, the reimbursable work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that a little bit and how that process worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.791815735702445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess, like all organizations. In our meetings with the office chiefs and the managers, we reviewed all the work that had to be done and ask, “Where can we cut?” Normally, you never got an unanimous decision among the office chiefs, and in that case, the manager would just make an arbitrary cut. Then if we got into trouble, usually, you could get help. It was in everyone’s interest that each office meet their responsibilities. I will have to admit , it was cut pretty thin at times, but we always managed to meet our schedules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You touched on, a minute ago, the reimbursable work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that a little bit and how that process worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we received reimbursable work, the area that was to perform the testing would come up with a budget, with estimated hours to perform the work. If WSTF agreed that we could do the work within the budget, we accepted the work. A task order was assigned and as work progressed, all changes were made to the assigned task order number. Task order reports came out on a weekly basis or were made available more often, if office chief desired. This permitted the office chief to keep current in trucking cost and performance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of contracts were those? You worked with the Army and the Air Force, too; is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.435350817447161, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that a little bit and how that process worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we received reimbursable work, the area that was to perform the testing would come up with a budget, with estimated hours to perform the work. If WSTF agreed that we could do the work within the budget, we accepted the work. A task order was assigned and as work progressed, all changes were made to the assigned task order number. Task order reports came out on a weekly basis or were made available more often, if office chief desired. This permitted the office chief to keep current in trucking cost and performance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of contracts were those? You worked with the Army and the Air Force, too; is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though they were not specifically designated as such, they ere in effect a fixed price type contract. Yes, we worked with the Army and Air Force and some work with contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1978, I believe, there was a reduction in force [RIF]. Do you remember that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.039278686052401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we received reimbursable work, the area that was to perform the testing would come up with a budget, with estimated hours to perform the work. If WSTF agreed that we could do the work within the budget, we accepted the work. A task order was assigned and as work progressed, all changes were made to the assigned task order number. Task order reports came out on a weekly basis or were made available more often, if office chief desired. This permitted the office chief to keep current in trucking cost and performance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of contracts were those? You worked with the Army and the Air Force, too; is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though they were not specifically designated as such, they ere in effect a fixed price type contract. Yes, we worked with the Army and Air Force and some work with contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1978, I believe, there was a reduction in force [RIF]. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. The RIF had very little impact as the net result. We had a few volunteers to leave or transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication before it happened that this was coming in your offices? Did you know it was inevitable?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.710309651169334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though they were not specifically designated as such, they ere in effect a fixed price type contract. Yes, we worked with the Army and Air Force and some work with contractors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1978, I believe, there was a reduction in force [RIF]. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. The RIF had very little impact as the net result. We had a few volunteers to leave or transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication before it happened that this was coming in your offices? Did you know it was inevitable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We suspected it, sure, since I had the personnel function, I worked closely with personnel. I pretty much knew what was coming. As office chiefs, we were constantly going through personnel cuts with the contractors. When we had cuts in budget, we had to reduce the contractor’s workforce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started here, going throughout your career here, obviously there was a lot of technological changes as far as the testing facility and engineers and that sort of thing. How did the technology over time, affect your offices?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.34478850129926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do. The RIF had very little impact as the net result. We had a few volunteers to leave or transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any indication before it happened that this was coming in your offices? Did you know it was inevitable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We suspected it, sure, since I had the personnel function, I worked closely with personnel. I pretty much knew what was coming. As office chiefs, we were constantly going through personnel cuts with the contractors. When we had cuts in budget, we had to reduce the contractor’s workforce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started here, going throughout your career here, obviously there was a lot of technological changes as far as the testing facility and engineers and that sort of thing. How did the technology over time, affect your offices?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made it easier. The effects it had on us went from typewriter to computer. But the early computers were not very user friendly. In my office, we didn’t have that much of a problem, the mainframe computer system was assigned to the facilities office. The priority was test reports. Everything else was secondary. That meant my office was secondary, except for payroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that all the astronauts had come through at various times to watch some of the testing. What were your feelings during the Apollo Program, watching them fly, the different astronauts? The ones that always come to mind are Apollo 8 or Apollo 11. Maybe you can describe some of those experiences and where you were and what you were doing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8275427792214005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We suspected it, sure, since I had the personnel function, I worked closely with personnel. I pretty much knew what was coming. As office chiefs, we were constantly going through personnel cuts with the contractors. When we had cuts in budget, we had to reduce the contractor’s workforce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started here, going throughout your career here, obviously there was a lot of technological changes as far as the testing facility and engineers and that sort of thing. How did the technology over time, affect your offices?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made it easier. The effects it had on us went from typewriter to computer. But the early computers were not very user friendly. In my office, we didn’t have that much of a problem, the mainframe computer system was assigned to the facilities office. The priority was test reports. Everything else was secondary. That meant my office was secondary, except for payroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that all the astronauts had come through at various times to watch some of the testing. What were your feelings during the Apollo Program, watching them fly, the different astronauts? The ones that always come to mind are Apollo 8 or Apollo 11. Maybe you can describe some of those experiences and where you were and what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were probably as tense as the group in JSC and Kennedy or maybe more so because we knew the anomalies from the testing we had done and what we hadn’t done. When Apollo 11 touched down on the moon, a great sense of pride for having been a member of the NASA team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when Apollo 11 landed? Were you at work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.363936421357112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made it easier. The effects it had on us went from typewriter to computer. But the early computers were not very user friendly. In my office, we didn’t have that much of a problem, the mainframe computer system was assigned to the facilities office. The priority was test reports. Everything else was secondary. That meant my office was secondary, except for payroll."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that all the astronauts had come through at various times to watch some of the testing. What were your feelings during the Apollo Program, watching them fly, the different astronauts? The ones that always come to mind are Apollo 8 or Apollo 11. Maybe you can describe some of those experiences and where you were and what you were doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were probably as tense as the group in JSC and Kennedy or maybe more so because we knew the anomalies from the testing we had done and what we hadn’t done. When Apollo 11 touched down on the moon, a great sense of pride for having been a member of the NASA team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when Apollo 11 landed? Were you at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have been at work. I do remember that it was quite exciting and a very proud moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were attentive."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.959929357063457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say we were probably as tense as the group in JSC and Kennedy or maybe more so because we knew the anomalies from the testing we had done and what we hadn’t done. When Apollo 11 touched down on the moon, a great sense of pride for having been a member of the NASA team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when Apollo 11 landed? Were you at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have been at work. I do remember that it was quite exciting and a very proud moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were attentive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was attentive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were at White Sands, during your tenure there you worked under several different managers. Is there anything about their management styles or anything you would like to share as far as the way it was run or any of their styles, like I said, their management styles?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6221437300705075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have been at work. I do remember that it was quite exciting and a very proud moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were attentive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was attentive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were at White Sands, during your tenure there you worked under several different managers. Is there anything about their management styles or anything you would like to share as far as the way it was run or any of their styles, like I said, their management styles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I alluded to you earlier that NASA was a technical organization, but our managers didn’t necessarily possess a management background. They had a technical background, which was consistent with the policy of NASA. But generally, I don’t think we found managers any different from what you might find in a similar type technical organization. I think we covered the spectrum. We had from very good managers to poor. A good manager manages people. If you have a manager who manages the work, that is what a technician should do. When you get a manager who manages work, I put him on the bottom of the scale. We had one of those and we had the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Across the board?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.35793747785612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was attentive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were at White Sands, during your tenure there you worked under several different managers. Is there anything about their management styles or anything you would like to share as far as the way it was run or any of their styles, like I said, their management styles?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I alluded to you earlier that NASA was a technical organization, but our managers didn’t necessarily possess a management background. They had a technical background, which was consistent with the policy of NASA. But generally, I don’t think we found managers any different from what you might find in a similar type technical organization. I think we covered the spectrum. We had from very good managers to poor. A good manager manages people. If you have a manager who manages the work, that is what a technician should do. When you get a manager who manages work, I put him on the bottom of the scale. We had one of those and we had the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Across the board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, But I think the key is that we got the job done. We were successful and that is the important thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed also in your list of duties, one of the things that was under there was communication. What did that entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.1754860865068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I alluded to you earlier that NASA was a technical organization, but our managers didn’t necessarily possess a management background. They had a technical background, which was consistent with the policy of NASA. But generally, I don’t think we found managers any different from what you might find in a similar type technical organization. I think we covered the spectrum. We had from very good managers to poor. A good manager manages people. If you have a manager who manages the work, that is what a technician should do. When you get a manager who manages work, I put him on the bottom of the scale. We had one of those and we had the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Across the board?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, But I think the key is that we got the job done. We were successful and that is the important thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed also in your list of duties, one of the things that was under there was communication. What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Providing for all the land lines, telephones, fax machines and installations to meet the requirements of all site personnel. We got help from the telephone company, who wrote up a plan and made suggestions of what would be the best for the site. The biggest effort was monitoring the requirements and keeping up with the changes to the system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left NASA in 1981."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.083873429452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, But I think the key is that we got the job done. We were successful and that is the important thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed also in your list of duties, one of the things that was under there was communication. What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Providing for all the land lines, telephones, fax machines and installations to meet the requirements of all site personnel. We got help from the telephone company, who wrote up a plan and made suggestions of what would be the best for the site. The biggest effort was monitoring the requirements and keeping up with the changes to the system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left NASA in 1981."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What lead to that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.98208158828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Providing for all the land lines, telephones, fax machines and installations to meet the requirements of all site personnel. We got help from the telephone company, who wrote up a plan and made suggestions of what would be the best for the site. The biggest effort was monitoring the requirements and keeping up with the changes to the system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You left NASA in 1981."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What lead to that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The enthusiasm was over. We began to get into Skylab at that point, which was not quite as glamorous. We were to a point where we had written so many regulations that it was more difficult to get the job done. I just felt that it was time to give somebody else a shot, and I really intended to retire, but it turned out I didn’t. The experience I got after that was quite interesting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you left NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.535646209199999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What lead to that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The enthusiasm was over. We began to get into Skylab at that point, which was not quite as glamorous. We were to a point where we had written so many regulations that it was more difficult to get the job done. I just felt that it was time to give somebody else a shot, and I really intended to retire, but it turned out I didn’t. The experience I got after that was quite interesting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you left NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked at New Mexico State University [NMSU] for five years as their contracts manager, consulted for Dynaelectron Corporation for about a year. Then I went to work for Cortez III Corporation and worked there for five years. After that, I finally retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you will, looking at the time you were there from 1963 to 1981, if you can give us just an overview, in your mind, of the changes at White Sands Test Facility and how it changed overtime as far as in the Las Cruces area also."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9284957879999993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The enthusiasm was over. We began to get into Skylab at that point, which was not quite as glamorous. We were to a point where we had written so many regulations that it was more difficult to get the job done. I just felt that it was time to give somebody else a shot, and I really intended to retire, but it turned out I didn’t. The experience I got after that was quite interesting too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do when you left NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked at New Mexico State University [NMSU] for five years as their contracts manager, consulted for Dynaelectron Corporation for about a year. Then I went to work for Cortez III Corporation and worked there for five years. After that, I finally retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you will, looking at the time you were there from 1963 to 1981, if you can give us just an overview, in your mind, of the changes at White Sands Test Facility and how it changed overtime as far as in the Las Cruces area also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can’t imagine how Las Cruces has changed. The area was desert all the way out from Las Cruces to WSTF. There was one abandoned service station and on out a little ways, there was an old warehouse. Now there are houses and businesses from Las Cruces to the NASA turnoff from U.S. Route 70, with a four lane highway which replaced a two lane road. The WSTF site continued to be kept operational, as well as added capabilities in both engine testing and laboratory functions. The Air Force built a Tracking Data Relay Satellite System [TRSS] adjacent to the 100 area of WSTF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your most significant accomplishment, in you mind, was never having caused a schedule delay. What about the most challenging part of your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.364995319999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked at New Mexico State University [NMSU] for five years as their contracts manager, consulted for Dynaelectron Corporation for about a year. Then I went to work for Cortez III Corporation and worked there for five years. After that, I finally retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you will, looking at the time you were there from 1963 to 1981, if you can give us just an overview, in your mind, of the changes at White Sands Test Facility and how it changed overtime as far as in the Las Cruces area also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can’t imagine how Las Cruces has changed. The area was desert all the way out from Las Cruces to WSTF. There was one abandoned service station and on out a little ways, there was an old warehouse. Now there are houses and businesses from Las Cruces to the NASA turnoff from U.S. Route 70, with a four lane highway which replaced a two lane road. The WSTF site continued to be kept operational, as well as added capabilities in both engine testing and laboratory functions. The Air Force built a Tracking Data Relay Satellite System [TRSS] adjacent to the 100 area of WSTF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your most significant accomplishment, in you mind, was never having caused a schedule delay. What about the most challenging part of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say the most challenging was meeting the tight schedule requirements and supporting the other offices to meet their requirements. One example comes to mind, the logistics of getting delivery of propellants and gases to meet the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if it is okay with you, at this time I’m going to ask Jennifer and Rebecca if they have any questions. Jennifer?\n\nI have a couple of questions. Did White Sands Test Facility ever do any work with New Mexico State University?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.849994799999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can’t imagine how Las Cruces has changed. The area was desert all the way out from Las Cruces to WSTF. There was one abandoned service station and on out a little ways, there was an old warehouse. Now there are houses and businesses from Las Cruces to the NASA turnoff from U.S. Route 70, with a four lane highway which replaced a two lane road. The WSTF site continued to be kept operational, as well as added capabilities in both engine testing and laboratory functions. The Air Force built a Tracking Data Relay Satellite System [TRSS] adjacent to the 100 area of WSTF."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your most significant accomplishment, in you mind, was never having caused a schedule delay. What about the most challenging part of your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say the most challenging was meeting the tight schedule requirements and supporting the other offices to meet their requirements. One example comes to mind, the logistics of getting delivery of propellants and gases to meet the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if it is okay with you, at this time I’m going to ask Jennifer and Rebecca if they have any questions. Jennifer?\n\nI have a couple of questions. Did White Sands Test Facility ever do any work with New Mexico State University?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk to us a little bit about that relationship and the different programs or type of work that you may have done, generally?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.277772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say the most challenging was meeting the tight schedule requirements and supporting the other offices to meet their requirements. One example comes to mind, the logistics of getting delivery of propellants and gases to meet the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if it is okay with you, at this time I’m going to ask Jennifer and Rebecca if they have any questions. Jennifer?\n\nI have a couple of questions. Did White Sands Test Facility ever do any work with New Mexico State University?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk to us a little bit about that relationship and the different programs or type of work that you may have done, generally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came to town, the medical facilities were not adequate. Nor were the personnel familiar with how to treat personnel who had been exposed to oxidizer or propellant fuels. The hospital had no method to calibrate their equipment. We did some equipment calibration and set standards for equipment with the medical community as well as the Physical Science Laboratory at NMSU."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have one general question. Could you define what procurement is specifically, and then compare and contrast it with things like budget work or contract work? If somebody were to ask you about that, if they wanted to write a paper on procurement, what would you tell them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.75308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk to us a little bit about that relationship and the different programs or type of work that you may have done, generally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came to town, the medical facilities were not adequate. Nor were the personnel familiar with how to treat personnel who had been exposed to oxidizer or propellant fuels. The hospital had no method to calibrate their equipment. We did some equipment calibration and set standards for equipment with the medical community as well as the Physical Science Laboratory at NMSU."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have one general question. Could you define what procurement is specifically, and then compare and contrast it with things like budget work or contract work? If somebody were to ask you about that, if they wanted to write a paper on procurement, what would you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The process of obtaining materials and supplies and service support which includes warehousing, surplus disposal and construction contracts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how does that differ from doing budget work or contract work? They seem to me to be almost part of that process. They also seem to be different in a sense."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.281199999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we came to town, the medical facilities were not adequate. Nor were the personnel familiar with how to treat personnel who had been exposed to oxidizer or propellant fuels. The hospital had no method to calibrate their equipment. We did some equipment calibration and set standards for equipment with the medical community as well as the Physical Science Laboratory at NMSU."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just have one general question. Could you define what procurement is specifically, and then compare and contrast it with things like budget work or contract work? If somebody were to ask you about that, if they wanted to write a paper on procurement, what would you tell them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The process of obtaining materials and supplies and service support which includes warehousing, surplus disposal and construction contracts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how does that differ from doing budget work or contract work? They seem to me to be almost part of that process. They also seem to be different in a sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would say quite different. The budget process is developing, planning and tracking costs. Payroll is part of the budget process whereas contracting is very different as defined above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since we are interviewing someone who did all of these things, and we are going to be interviewing other people from these areas, I thought it would be a good idea for us to get a good grasp of what these different areas entailed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.867999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The process of obtaining materials and supplies and service support which includes warehousing, surplus disposal and construction contracts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how does that differ from doing budget work or contract work? They seem to me to be almost part of that process. They also seem to be different in a sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would say quite different. The budget process is developing, planning and tracking costs. Payroll is part of the budget process whereas contracting is very different as defined above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since we are interviewing someone who did all of these things, and we are going to be interviewing other people from these areas, I thought it would be a good idea for us to get a good grasp of what these different areas entailed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I explain it enough for you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.52, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I would say quite different. The budget process is developing, planning and tracking costs. Payroll is part of the budget process whereas contracting is very different as defined above."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since we are interviewing someone who did all of these things, and we are going to be interviewing other people from these areas, I thought it would be a good idea for us to get a good grasp of what these different areas entailed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I explain it enough for you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all the questions I have.\n\nI have a couple, and they’re not related. I want to go back, and you originally were talking about the first couple of years that you were here and when you arrived you had pretty much a budget that wasn’t—or maybe was—an unlimited budget. You had money that you could spend. You didn’t have auditing. Can you give us the background on this? Where did that come from, and did you know that when you walked in the door, that the first two years it was kind of open at that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did I explain it enough for you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think so, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all the questions I have.\n\nI have a couple, and they’re not related. I want to go back, and you originally were talking about the first couple of years that you were here and when you arrived you had pretty much a budget that wasn’t—or maybe was—an unlimited budget. You had money that you could spend. You didn’t have auditing. Can you give us the background on this? Where did that come from, and did you know that when you walked in the door, that the first two years it was kind of open at that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The President gave us this task of sending a man to the Moon and returning him, in this decade. The budget was developed by NASA and submitted to Congress. We didn’t have any cost time, so it was just a matter of best guess and past experience. I found out later that even though we seemed to have plenty of budget, we still had our budget reviews with JSC. Initially they were on a monthly basis. We were required to submit our budgets to JSC for approval."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My last question is, you talked about different relationships between the military agencies and between the contractors, but when you and others moved into Las Cruces, how did the community receive you, and how did that change over the years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all the questions I have.\n\nI have a couple, and they’re not related. I want to go back, and you originally were talking about the first couple of years that you were here and when you arrived you had pretty much a budget that wasn’t—or maybe was—an unlimited budget. You had money that you could spend. You didn’t have auditing. Can you give us the background on this? Where did that come from, and did you know that when you walked in the door, that the first two years it was kind of open at that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The President gave us this task of sending a man to the Moon and returning him, in this decade. The budget was developed by NASA and submitted to Congress. We didn’t have any cost time, so it was just a matter of best guess and past experience. I found out later that even though we seemed to have plenty of budget, we still had our budget reviews with JSC. Initially they were on a monthly basis. We were required to submit our budgets to JSC for approval."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My last question is, you talked about different relationships between the military agencies and between the contractors, but when you and others moved into Las Cruces, how did the community receive you, and how did that change over the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The biggest problem that my office had was dealing with local vendors. They were used to supplying common items they had in stock and if there was a requirement for something not in stock, it would take two to six weeks to get it. NASA’s policy was to contract first in the state of New Mexico and the city of Las Cruces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How the community received you and the people and how that changed over the years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The biggest problem that my office had was dealing with local vendors. They were used to supplying common items they had in stock and if there was a requirement for something not in stock, it would take two to six weeks to get it. NASA’s policy was to contract first in the state of New Mexico and the city of Las Cruces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How the community received you and the people and how that changed over the years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we first arrived in Las Cruces, it was a sleepy, little town. It was the land of manana. It is still somewhat the land of manana. When I first arrived, Mr. Hugh Milton, former Under Secretary of Defense, personally met me and drove me around town to look for a house to rent or buy. This is representative of how the community of Las Cruces thought of NASA folks. When my supervisor told me who he was, I couldn’t believe it. Another example, invitations were sent to all the realtors in Las Cruces to come to WSTF and work with NASA on helping with housing for NASA and the contractor’s employees. Only one realtor responded and came to WSTF to determine NASA requirements. For example, if we had North American coming to Las Cruces, that was all you had to tell him. He made up packets and sent them to incoming personnel. Told them he would meet them at the airport, inform them what housing was available, price range, etc. He provided similar services when they were leaving. He provided excellent support to personnel coming in or moving out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought of something while you were talking with Jennifer about the accidents and that sort of thing. Was there any type of training for safety available, and did that come out of your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not from my office. We had a Safety Office and the Safety Officer worked on the staff of the manager. He had an ongoing safety training program for WSTF personnel. His safety training was very effective. There was only one major accident and no deaths in the course of the total test program at WSTF, while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything in closing that you’d like to say or anything we didn’t cover?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00240:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we first arrived in Las Cruces, it was a sleepy, little town. It was the land of manana. It is still somewhat the land of manana. When I first arrived, Mr. Hugh Milton, former Under Secretary of Defense, personally met me and drove me around town to look for a house to rent or buy. This is representative of how the community of Las Cruces thought of NASA folks. When my supervisor told me who he was, I couldn’t believe it. Another example, invitations were sent to all the realtors in Las Cruces to come to WSTF and work with NASA on helping with housing for NASA and the contractor’s employees. Only one realtor responded and came to WSTF to determine NASA requirements. For example, if we had North American coming to Las Cruces, that was all you had to tell him. He made up packets and sent them to incoming personnel. Told them he would meet them at the airport, inform them what housing was available, price range, etc. He provided similar services when they were leaving. He provided excellent support to personnel coming in or moving out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought of something while you were talking with Jennifer about the accidents and that sort of thing. Was there any type of training for safety available, and did that come out of your office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not from my office. We had a Safety Office and the Safety Officer worked on the staff of the manager. He had an ongoing safety training program for WSTF personnel. His safety training was very effective. There was only one major accident and no deaths in the course of the total test program at WSTF, while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything in closing that you’d like to say or anything we didn’t cover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would like to say that I was always proud to be part of NASA and the work they did and the way they did it. I was glad to be a member of the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We want to thank you for being here with us this afternoon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00467:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That 2006 article about what we love about JSC. I thought that might just be nice for you to end on that note. What do you love about JSC? What are you going to miss?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The things that I read were the ones that really struck me, because I would read them and say, “Well, that’s exactly what I love about JSC too,” that there’s a feeling of family here, that teamwork is really important, that we’re all focused on making the mission successful, that we have friends at work, that we come here every day and we’re working with our friends. Those are the things I really love about JSC and that’s why I picked those particular quotes. Although there was a whole bunch of really good ones in that article. I had a hard time narrowing it down. I think I picked four or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think those were all of my questions. I think we did a thorough job capturing your tenure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I wasn’t sure if there was anything else you might [want to talk about]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00467:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The things that I read were the ones that really struck me, because I would read them and say, “Well, that’s exactly what I love about JSC too,” that there’s a feeling of family here, that teamwork is really important, that we’re all focused on making the mission successful, that we have friends at work, that we come here every day and we’re working with our friends. Those are the things I really love about JSC and that’s why I picked those particular quotes. Although there was a whole bunch of really good ones in that article. I had a hard time narrowing it down. I think I picked four or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think those were all of my questions. I think we did a thorough job capturing your tenure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right, thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I wasn’t sure if there was anything else you might [want to talk about]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh, I don’t know, I can’t even remember what I talked about in all of our sessions. I don’t know. I’m sure there are things I should be mentioning that I haven’t thought of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe we’ll come up to Boise. It’d be a good excuse. Thank you very much for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 37.84793920027186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fort Knox [Kentucky]. It wasn’t really near. They used to fly out of Fort Knox at the time. I think now there’s helicopters there, but there used to be some fixed-wings that went in and out of there. But that was it. My only introduction was looking up and seeing that streak across the sky. So that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any interest in the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None. Of course we, like everybody else my age, we watched the Apollo landings and were fascinated by that. But that came afterwards when I was working as a test pilot. My desire was to get back into what we called a gun squadron or fighter fleet, [McDonnell Douglas] F-18 [Hornet] squadron. The Marine Corps wanted to send me for a one-year unaccompanied tour to Okinawa as the Assistant Admin [Administrative] Officer, because I’d done nothing but fly in the Marine Corps, and it was my turn to push paper. I disagreed with that, and that friend of mine that was already in the Astronaut Office, another marine fighter pilot, he talked to me and said, “Hey, Terry, instead of getting out of the Marine Corps, why don’t you consider putting in an application at NASA?”\\n\\n Once I spent some time thinking about how great that would be—because when you work as a test pilot you’re working with some really really sharp engineers and I was going to miss that. I thought gosh, you would do the same thing with not just exceptionally sharp engineers, but scientists, project managers. That seemed pretty attractive to me. So I did put in that application and was fortunate enough to be selected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that Bryan [D.] O’Connor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was Andy [Andrew M.] Allen. Of course I met Bryan later in the Office. But I think he got busy doing management jobs soon after I came to the office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking in your bio. Fairly quickly you were accepted into TOPGUN [training]. Can you talk about that opportunity?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 34.07125760001989, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seemed like everything went well. So actually I didn’t spend any time worrying about it at all. The Marine Corps changed their mind about my orders to Okinawa and were offering me a seat in a gun squadron, which is what I wanted. I would have been happy either way. One was again to go back to the Fleet Marine Force and the other one was to go fly Space Shuttles. It’s not a bad deal either way. But I enjoyed that week and to this day I think about it as a pleasant memory. So regardless of what would have happened, I would have been okay.\\n\\n I’m glad things turned out the way they did, but I have to assume the other one would have been equally fun or just about equally fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a fairly large class and you guys came up with the nickname the Hairballs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not all of us came up with that. The more vocal group thought that would be it. The rest of us didn’t care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us the history behind that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I actually can’t. I don’t know. There were worse ones. That was the most acceptable of the ones they came up with. So I don’t know. You ask enough members of my class, somebody’ll probably be able to tell you what that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about some of the training that you had to participate in when you first came down as an ASCAN [Astronaut Candidate]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.952045352229632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most of us, certainly all the pilots, did some of the work in the simulator out at [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] on that. I think Jim [James D.] Wetherbee ran that project. I could be wrong about that but that’s who I remember as running the project. Then we would go out and do runs to see what would be acceptable crosswind limits and procedures on it. I would be pretty confident saying that probably every pilot participated in those test runs. Every single one of our former test pilots, they were used to determining acceptable handling qualities. I would have been one of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get a chance to go out to [NASA] Stennis [Space Center, Mississippi] when they were testing any of the engines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you bet. Matter of fact, our class did while we were still ASCANS in that first year. They took us out to Stennis to watch an SSME fire. Very impressive. It made you appreciate the engineers that designed the thing, because the amount of thrust on that, and to think that you’re going to sit on top of it, like I said, it was impressive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve never seen one, but from the videos it’s just amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope you do, because you don’t just see it, you feel it. Of course the acoustics coming out of there, it vibrates your chest, everything around. It’s an experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things I noticed you did is you worked as a Cape Crusader out in Florida. Can you talk about that and when you got involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.69388315090078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope you do, because you don’t just see it, you feel it. Of course the acoustics coming out of there, it vibrates your chest, everything around. It’s an experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things I noticed you did is you worked as a Cape Crusader out in Florida. Can you talk about that and when you got involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another great job, I don’t remember the years, because I did that a couple times. But you work at KSC to help with the processing of the Shuttle and getting it ready for launch. That is a wonderful job for an astronaut because you’re inside the actual Shuttle a lot. That’s different than being in the simulators over here, to be inside the actual hardware.\\n\\n Frankly, when you fly in space, you’re already used to the Shuttle being in the vertical. That can be disorienting a little bit for new guys that have never spent any time in the actual Shuttle. But you’re perfectly at home in the Shuttle. You know where things are. You don’t have any being disoriented due to attitude. You get used to throwing switches on the real hardware. I just think that’s a great job. Plus, you strap in the crews. When some of your friends are getting in, you’re the last person in there. You strap them in, close the hatch, get them on their way. It’s a wonderful job, lots of responsibility, because there’s 2,000 switches, circuit breakers inside the Shuttle. You are the team, with the folks at KSC of course, making sure that every one of those goes in the right position before you launch your pals on their mission. It’s another good job for anyone, particularly a pilot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read somewhere that it’s the next best thing to flying in space, someone said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that. It’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn’t come close, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.325159022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We go inside the spaceship, make sure they’re in good shape, help them unstrap. Then we take over for the commander. There’s still some switches that have to be thrown post landing for cooling and power-down. The sooner we got in, the sooner the commander and the crew could get out, because we would take over those functions. If any of them needed anything then we would take care of that. They’re your friends, we’re all part of the Astronaut Office. We would just get in there to provide whatever assistance would be required and to relieve them so they could get out and start the postlanding things that astronauts have to do, medical things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great job. How many days would you be out there before they would land?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, day before, something like that. There wasn’t any reason to be out there earlier. The folks at either place, they know what they’re doing. If they were going to come in tomorrow then we’d fly out there sometime today to get ready, participate in the prebriefs where you go over everyone’s role, and then get ready for the landing. It was well orchestrated. Again Edwards and KSC, they both knew what they were supposed to do, knew how to do it well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a great job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, it’s wonderful. Again, it’s real hardware and those are your friends on board. It’s nice to get in there and see they’re all okay, relieve them of the burden of throwing the switches, and let them get out and start getting comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine after so many days in space they’re ready to stretch their legs so to speak."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.2, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. That was one because that’s a lot of night work in that. You tried to limit the time that any one person had to do those kind of things. When you had a burden like that it’s nice to share the burden. Plus, that was another. Gosh, that was a wealth of experience to be gained from working in the SAIL. If you had a new one, or you had someone that could benefit from that kind of training, then you’d put them in there for a while. There’s no bad deal in there. It’s a good thing. The only thing that would perhaps make it a bad deal would be schedule. But it’s such an honor to do any of those jobs that you really don’t have any problem with it.\\n\\n Everyone understands that that kind of burden has to be shared. You can’t leave somebody on something like that forever. But when I say burden, the burden is minor compared to the training that you get from working a job like SAIL. It was definitely worthwhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you spend time in SAIL yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Even as chief of that section of the office. It’s only fair. Why shouldn’t I do nights occasionally? Again, it’s a great thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m looking at the clock. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about your time in Russia over at the Gagarin Training Center. But I wasn’t sure if you wanted to stop here and pick up next time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s up to you. How many questions do you have?\\n\\n JOHNSON: You have a long career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’ll take us a while to get through all of what we have. Plus you have four missions too. I don’t know if you just want to stop here. We can pick up next time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00608:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 8.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Even as chief of that section of the office. It’s only fair. Why shouldn’t I do nights occasionally? Again, it’s a great thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m looking at the clock. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about your time in Russia over at the Gagarin Training Center. But I wasn’t sure if you wanted to stop here and pick up next time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s up to you. How many questions do you have?\\n\\n JOHNSON: You have a long career."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’ll take us a while to get through all of what we have. Plus you have four missions too. I don’t know if you just want to stop here. We can pick up next time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s more than 10 minutes’ worth of time in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was thinking. I don’t want to rush that. I’m sure that was a fascinating experience living over there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.696508634492442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For my interview?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, and it was mid-March, and the weather was perfect, and the mockingbirds were up in the trees, and it was gorgeous. Little did I know what it was going to be like in July. When we moved down, it was a record-breaking heat wave and I was in an un-air-conditioned U-haul truck with all my belongings in the back, hauling across Texas with a governor in [the truck], and it was unbelievable. Yes, Houston’s a little tough in the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The adventure had begun. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. The climatic adventure had begun, that’s right. That was a challenge I never really met. I never got used to the climate. It was just too hot for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It hasn’t got any better; it’s still pretty hot. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.329454038324936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, and it was mid-March, and the weather was perfect, and the mockingbirds were up in the trees, and it was gorgeous. Little did I know what it was going to be like in July. When we moved down, it was a record-breaking heat wave and I was in an un-air-conditioned U-haul truck with all my belongings in the back, hauling across Texas with a governor in [the truck], and it was unbelievable. Yes, Houston’s a little tough in the summer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The adventure had begun. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. The climatic adventure had begun, that’s right. That was a challenge I never really met. I never got used to the climate. It was just too hot for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It hasn’t got any better; it’s still pretty hot. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except today; it’s pretty cold here today. The interview process—before we actually get into your moving—were you surprised at any of the questions they asked, or did you feel like you were prepared for that whole process?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.14383782036104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right. The climatic adventure had begun, that’s right. That was a challenge I never really met. I never got used to the climate. It was just too hot for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It hasn’t got any better; it’s still pretty hot. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except today; it’s pretty cold here today. The interview process—before we actually get into your moving—were you surprised at any of the questions they asked, or did you feel like you were prepared for that whole process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the funniest interview I’d ever been in, because I came from academia and I was a research engineer, and so I was totally prepared to go in and knock their socks off with my technical ability, and the first question was, “So, did you play any sports in high school?” [Laughs] I went—because I was just—it was just totally unexpected, and it went on from there, because I didn’t really understand what they were looking for. This was not a technical interview, because I wasn’t going to be asked to go, necessarily, do my technical work. I was being asked to go do other people’s technical work. So it ended up being, I think, much more an interview where they were trying to probe whether I was going to thrive in that environment, which was my take on it afterwards. But, yes, it was very unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other aspects? They gave you a tour? Or what other parts of the process did you go through when you were being interviewed as a candidate?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.16615560660508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, or “sanitary fairy.” Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure Captain Young must have enjoyed giving you all types of tasks to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he did, and, in fact, to this day, when I go down to Houston, I stay with John and Susie, because I think he felt so bad because he kept giving me all these dumpy jobs to do. [Laughs] But it was good. I was happy to do it and that kind of stuff. So, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you mentioned about the interview, that you were thinking they were going to talk to you about your technical experience, at what point or did at any point in your training, did you feel like your technical experience and your background helped you get your jobs done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it helped me a lot. In the classes, there were times—as a sanitary engineer, I had a lot of fluid flow, Reynolds numbers, and that kind of stuff, but it was all in the inside of pipes. I remember sitting in this aero class, and all of a sudden I was looking at the bookwork and I started saying, “My god, this airplane is just an inside-out sewer pipe.” I sort of shared my great “aha” with my classmates, and none of the test pilots were at all impressed with this great visualization of their airplane being an inside-out sewer pipe. [Laughter] But it really was. So, yes, there were things like that that happened. And when it came to life-support stuff, yes, I did a lot of work, and I really worked based on what I had learned in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We know that Mr. Abbey assigned you to the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.96239511845009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he did, and, in fact, to this day, when I go down to Houston, I stay with John and Susie, because I think he felt so bad because he kept giving me all these dumpy jobs to do. [Laughs] But it was good. I was happy to do it and that kind of stuff. So, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you mentioned about the interview, that you were thinking they were going to talk to you about your technical experience, at what point or did at any point in your training, did you feel like your technical experience and your background helped you get your jobs done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it helped me a lot. In the classes, there were times—as a sanitary engineer, I had a lot of fluid flow, Reynolds numbers, and that kind of stuff, but it was all in the inside of pipes. I remember sitting in this aero class, and all of a sudden I was looking at the bookwork and I started saying, “My god, this airplane is just an inside-out sewer pipe.” I sort of shared my great “aha” with my classmates, and none of the test pilots were at all impressed with this great visualization of their airplane being an inside-out sewer pipe. [Laughter] But it really was. So, yes, there were things like that that happened. And when it came to life-support stuff, yes, I did a lot of work, and I really worked based on what I had learned in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We know that Mr. Abbey assigned you to the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about your experiences there and the duties that you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.958216798277878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it helped me a lot. In the classes, there were times—as a sanitary engineer, I had a lot of fluid flow, Reynolds numbers, and that kind of stuff, but it was all in the inside of pipes. I remember sitting in this aero class, and all of a sudden I was looking at the bookwork and I started saying, “My god, this airplane is just an inside-out sewer pipe.” I sort of shared my great “aha” with my classmates, and none of the test pilots were at all impressed with this great visualization of their airplane being an inside-out sewer pipe. [Laughter] But it really was. So, yes, there were things like that that happened. And when it came to life-support stuff, yes, I did a lot of work, and I really worked based on what I had learned in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We know that Mr. Abbey assigned you to the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about your experiences there and the duties that you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were testing flight software, and a lot of what we were doing was just running different scenarios, and it was fun. For me it was fun, because usually I was assigned—there was a pilot and a mission specialist assigned, and we’d do the payload stuff. But a lot of times we’d end up having to fly or help fly scenarios. When you’re working a simulator, it’s up a lot and then it’s down a lot, so it gives you time to really get to know everybody. The people you’re assigned to, you get to share war stories. So it was a lot of fun, really get to know people that way. For me, it was really good training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you get moved into doing the CapCom work? Were you there for a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.953574220308752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about your experiences there and the duties that you had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were testing flight software, and a lot of what we were doing was just running different scenarios, and it was fun. For me it was fun, because usually I was assigned—there was a pilot and a mission specialist assigned, and we’d do the payload stuff. But a lot of times we’d end up having to fly or help fly scenarios. When you’re working a simulator, it’s up a lot and then it’s down a lot, so it gives you time to really get to know everybody. The people you’re assigned to, you get to share war stories. So it was a lot of fun, really get to know people that way. For me, it was really good training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you get moved into doing the CapCom work? Were you there for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I was there for STS-7 because I was on when Sally [K. Ride]—we were the first female-female connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to talk more about that, since you brought that up, about that mission and—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.17063802256528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were testing flight software, and a lot of what we were doing was just running different scenarios, and it was fun. For me it was fun, because usually I was assigned—there was a pilot and a mission specialist assigned, and we’d do the payload stuff. But a lot of times we’d end up having to fly or help fly scenarios. When you’re working a simulator, it’s up a lot and then it’s down a lot, so it gives you time to really get to know everybody. The people you’re assigned to, you get to share war stories. So it was a lot of fun, really get to know people that way. For me, it was really good training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you get moved into doing the CapCom work? Were you there for a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I was there for STS-7 because I was on when Sally [K. Ride]—we were the first female-female connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to talk more about that, since you brought that up, about that mission and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—your memories about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.522931136183647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I was there for STS-7 because I was on when Sally [K. Ride]—we were the first female-female connection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you like to talk more about that, since you brought that up, about that mission and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—your memories about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t even notice it. Here’s Sally and I, we didn’t even notice it. But I was on duty, and one female reporter, who will go unnamed, afterwards said, “Mary, it was so disappointing.”\\n\\n And I said, “What do you mean?”\\n\\n “You and Sally just had a normal conversation.”\\n\\n “Yeah. We were working.”\\n\\n “Well, you should have said something special for this momentous occasion.”\\n\\n “What momentous—?”\\n\\n “First female-to-female communication.”\\n\\n And I went, “Oh, we didn’t notice.” [Laughter] Sort of like, “Well, I’m sorry I disappointed you, but really we didn’t notice it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing your job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.136590151315165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—your memories about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t even notice it. Here’s Sally and I, we didn’t even notice it. But I was on duty, and one female reporter, who will go unnamed, afterwards said, “Mary, it was so disappointing.”\\n\\n And I said, “What do you mean?”\\n\\n “You and Sally just had a normal conversation.”\\n\\n “Yeah. We were working.”\\n\\n “Well, you should have said something special for this momentous occasion.”\\n\\n “What momentous—?”\\n\\n “First female-to-female communication.”\\n\\n And I went, “Oh, we didn’t notice.” [Laughter] Sort of like, “Well, I’m sorry I disappointed you, but really we didn’t notice it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And that was good. That was really good. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that off and on, about this new beginning and new era of women. Did you feel any kind of resentment from the test pilots or any type of animosity with your other astronauts, or did everyone just feel like you were just there working as astronauts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.040655723683514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn’t even notice it. Here’s Sally and I, we didn’t even notice it. But I was on duty, and one female reporter, who will go unnamed, afterwards said, “Mary, it was so disappointing.”\\n\\n And I said, “What do you mean?”\\n\\n “You and Sally just had a normal conversation.”\\n\\n “Yeah. We were working.”\\n\\n “Well, you should have said something special for this momentous occasion.”\\n\\n “What momentous—?”\\n\\n “First female-to-female communication.”\\n\\n And I went, “Oh, we didn’t notice.” [Laughter] Sort of like, “Well, I’m sorry I disappointed you, but really we didn’t notice it.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just doing your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And that was good. That was really good. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that off and on, about this new beginning and new era of women. Did you feel any kind of resentment from the test pilots or any type of animosity with your other astronauts, or did everyone just feel like you were just there working as astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never got any feeling of overt anything. There were issues to deal with all the time. These guys, when you change society like that, these guys are all dealing with having to go out in the field with women in a situation where their spouses weren’t used to this kind of brave new world, and so there were issues you had to deal with in that situation. I’m sure it would have been easier for them not to have to deal with it, but they did that.\\n\\n Some of the guys didn’t want to fly with women because of that, so you might have had a little—I mean, the only thing I ever really noticed was you might have had a little more trouble trying to get your flight time in back seats just because some of the guys are reticent to go TDY [Temporary Duty] with you, because they got pressure from at home. Other than that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the duties assigned—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.237396317152136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found out I was selected from the crew like everybody else finds out: George [Abbey] told me. You don’t know, and then George calls you over and you find out.\\n\\n That first crew was great. The D.C. contingent, Bryan [D.] O’Connor and Woody [Sherwood C.] Spring and I, still get together two or three times a year. Our families all get together. It’s almost like we—and Jerry [L.] Ross. When I’m down here, I always see him. To me, it was sort of like an extended family. All of us were rookies except for the commander, [Brewster H. Shaw, Jr.], so we were all sharing this for the first time around. We had to train for two years, and we flew three semi-payloads, because there were so many manifest bumps, that we were training together all the time. We just got to know each other really well. It was great. We just had a great flight; everything went well. The EVAs [Extravehicular Activity] were fabulous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any idea that you were going to be selected for this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No indication?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I didn’t really expect to be selected yet, but I was happy. And Bryan O’Connor and I, when we first got down, we were doing our initial skit for our class. You do all these skits. He did a Guido Sarducci kind of comedy routine, so we were the first “mother-father” team in space. We figured George probably assigned us to a flight together because of that skit. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a new reason."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 32.485995907946815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No indication?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I didn’t really expect to be selected yet, but I was happy. And Bryan O’Connor and I, when we first got down, we were doing our initial skit for our class. You do all these skits. He did a Guido Sarducci kind of comedy routine, so we were the first “mother-father” team in space. We figured George probably assigned us to a flight together because of that skit. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s a new reason."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were just teasing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.436014270914402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did crew family escort afterwards. I was assigned to help when the families came down, as an escort both at JSC when the President came in to do the memorial service. I was working at—Jim [James F.] Buchli was in charge of the group. They put a marine in charge of the Honor Guard. So I got to learn to be an escort from a marine, which was interesting. I learned how to open up doors. This was sort of like it doesn’t matter if you’re a girl or boy, there’s a certain way people need to be treated when they’re escorted. So I did that. That was interesting. And it was nice to think that you could help at that point, because they had people from the corps assigned to all the families to try to help them.\\n\\n Then my official duty, I really just sort of worked at what I was working at, and then when they located the crew compartment, I got assigned to be in charge of the area where they brought the crew compartment back, probably because I’d been working the personal-equipment issues, so I understood how they recorded numbers and kept track of all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it was a very good piece of news when you found out you were going to get to take your second mission then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful. It was wonderful. We were all really working hard supporting the twenty-sixth flight. We were all really busy, because after the flight, we were extremely busy because we did a piece-by-piece safety review, and that took an incredible amount of time and incredible effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think your contributions during that time period were implemented or at least listened to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were the first woman to fly after the Challenger accident. Did you feel like there was any pressure or any undue attention that was given to you because of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.817793634349336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful. It was wonderful. We were all really working hard supporting the twenty-sixth flight. We were all really busy, because after the flight, we were extremely busy because we did a piece-by-piece safety review, and that took an incredible amount of time and incredible effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think your contributions during that time period were implemented or at least listened to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were the first woman to fly after the Challenger accident. Did you feel like there was any pressure or any undue attention that was given to you because of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to. They tried to. People tried to make a point of it, and I just let everybody know that I didn’t think that anybody should be making a special point out of this. There were two women that were on the Challenger when it went. Judy [Judith A. Resnik] happened to be a very good friend of mine. So it was just a normal part of the thing, and I just didn’t think it was good to make anything special out of it, because at that point we really were part of the corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have any hesitation about taking that mission assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.464215149277038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were the first woman to fly after the Challenger accident. Did you feel like there was any pressure or any undue attention that was given to you because of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to. They tried to. People tried to make a point of it, and I just let everybody know that I didn’t think that anybody should be making a special point out of this. There were two women that were on the Challenger when it went. Judy [Judith A. Resnik] happened to be a very good friend of mine. So it was just a normal part of the thing, and I just didn’t think it was good to make anything special out of it, because at that point we really were part of the corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have any hesitation about taking that mission assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was safe. It was much safer the second ride. Are you kidding? [Laughter] Much safer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know during the STS-30 mission, you had some minor problems, or I guess they sound like they’re minor now. You had different things happen. Did that affect you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.293572388085597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to. They tried to. People tried to make a point of it, and I just let everybody know that I didn’t think that anybody should be making a special point out of this. There were two women that were on the Challenger when it went. Judy [Judith A. Resnik] happened to be a very good friend of mine. So it was just a normal part of the thing, and I just didn’t think it was good to make anything special out of it, because at that point we really were part of the corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have any hesitation about taking that mission assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was safe. It was much safer the second ride. Are you kidding? [Laughter] Much safer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know during the STS-30 mission, you had some minor problems, or I guess they sound like they’re minor now. You had different things happen. Did that affect you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took a single-event upset on a computer. Yes, because…it was during a high solar cycle. Yes, so we got to change out a computer. It was really fun. We really were surprised that they had us change it in the first place, because we took it down and brought it back up and it seemed to be running okay, so when they said, “Go ahead and take up the spare computer.” Mark Lee and I were the IFM [In-Flight Maintenance] guys. We sort of looked at each other like, “Are you sure we want to do this?” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The new job as the jumpmaster and taking care of that, you were ready to do that if needed to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.482399853707232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I like the role model part of it and going out and being in situations where, potentially, girls or young women might consider doing something they wouldn’t consider doing before. In particular, I liked working on math-anxiety issues. I worked with Muriel [Schloss] on a book. She wrote a book. There’s a series of books for junior high school girls and there is one on a veterinarian. We did one on my job, like that, so that girls will think about doing different kinds of jobs.\\n\\n It’s getting to be less and less of an issue, but there is still an incredible issue with targeting young women so they don’t decide that they don’t want to do math in junior high school. They were good at it in elementary school and they get into junior high school, and because of peer pressure, they like to pretend they’re not good at it. We still have a lot of work to do in that arena. I’m on an academy diversity panel now at the National Academy of Engineering, working on those issues. I really got introduced to working on them down in the corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you returned from your missions, did you have any specific public-relations-type duties that you had to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First flight, we had the first Mexican astronaut, so we had a trip to Mexico as a post flight. The second flight, we got to come up to the White House and President [George H. W.] Bush—the first President Bush—we had dinner at the White House. That was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other duties that you had after the mission, were they many and varied that you had, or were they minimal and nonspecific?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After return from the missions, what all did they have you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.313777615230258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First flight, we had the first Mexican astronaut, so we had a trip to Mexico as a post flight. The second flight, we got to come up to the White House and President [George H. W.] Bush—the first President Bush—we had dinner at the White House. That was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other duties that you had after the mission, were they many and varied that you had, or were they minimal and nonspecific?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After return from the missions, what all did they have you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was a lot of work to do. After the first flight, we were still in a post-flight period when the accident happened, and then we ended up all doing different stuff. Then after the second flight, I didn’t have that much time before I was reassigned to this other flight, but I was consistently working on life-support issues, because there was always—and there still is—a lot of work to do in that arena."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the expectations, when you went down for that interview in Houston in March, the expectations that you had if you got to be an astronaut, did they meet up, or did they match, or did they exceed of what you ended up with once you left the astronaut corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.348641794700285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After return from the missions, what all did they have you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was a lot of work to do. After the first flight, we were still in a post-flight period when the accident happened, and then we ended up all doing different stuff. Then after the second flight, I didn’t have that much time before I was reassigned to this other flight, but I was consistently working on life-support issues, because there was always—and there still is—a lot of work to do in that arena."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the expectations, when you went down for that interview in Houston in March, the expectations that you had if you got to be an astronaut, did they meet up, or did they match, or did they exceed of what you ended up with once you left the astronaut corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I haven’t really thought about that. I didn’t really know what to expect. I just knew I wasn’t going to be driving a desk, which was good. And I didn’t drive a desk, and that was good. I guess I went down there really hoping that I could provide a real contribution to the office. I never got the feeling that I didn’t do that, so I guess it did meet what I wanted it to meet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were all individuals, and each one of you contributed something to the space program that is still long-lasting. Could you share with us what you feel is probably the greatest accomplishment that you had while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.720533142356782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was the cultural differences between somebody like me that came out of a university research environment, and interfacing that with the military environment, because that was back in the seventies, and the seventies were closer to the sixties and all the guys in our class flew in Vietnam. In fact, it was always interesting in the first flight when we had daylight over Vietnam, getting a lot of war stories. Then load that on top of the fact that these guys weren’t used to working with women at all, they weren’t used to having women in their environment, but that was probably the biggest challenge to try to work, not to take stuff personally, but rather to just see it as part of an unfolding of events, something you’re mutually working on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Many changes happened in a really small amount of time, didn’t it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, absolutely. Yes. I was really lucky. If you compare what happened to me compared to my sister, who’s six years older than I am, I mean, I had it just right. She was just ahead of it. If she had been born when I was born, she would have been a psychiatrist instead of a psychiatric social worker, because she ended up being a nurse first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we end, I was going to ask Kevin if he had some questions that he thought about asking you as well.\n\nSure, I had a few, if you still have some time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had spoken to Rebecca a little bit earlier about—you weren’t really sure what your expectations were when coming into the astronaut corps. What idea did you have of what a Shuttle astronaut did, since pretty much the only astronauts they’d had were these Apollo guys and then some on Skylab, I guess. Did you have any kind of image of what an astronaut was going to be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.689481269285313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely, absolutely. Yes. I was really lucky. If you compare what happened to me compared to my sister, who’s six years older than I am, I mean, I had it just right. She was just ahead of it. If she had been born when I was born, she would have been a psychiatrist instead of a psychiatric social worker, because she ended up being a nurse first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we end, I was going to ask Kevin if he had some questions that he thought about asking you as well.\n\nSure, I had a few, if you still have some time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had spoken to Rebecca a little bit earlier about—you weren’t really sure what your expectations were when coming into the astronaut corps. What idea did you have of what a Shuttle astronaut did, since pretty much the only astronauts they’d had were these Apollo guys and then some on Skylab, I guess. Did you have any kind of image of what an astronaut was going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we’d all watched the Apollo Program pretty carefully. Although they were test pilots except for one guy, they did do geology up there, so they were doing experiments. On Skylab they did a lot of experiments. So I just figured we’d be doing stuff like that, and it wasn’t that far off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned working with the engineers. I was wondering what interaction you had with the flight controllers and flight directors, learning to work with the mission control team."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.877201410317014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had spoken to Rebecca a little bit earlier about—you weren’t really sure what your expectations were when coming into the astronaut corps. What idea did you have of what a Shuttle astronaut did, since pretty much the only astronauts they’d had were these Apollo guys and then some on Skylab, I guess. Did you have any kind of image of what an astronaut was going to be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we’d all watched the Apollo Program pretty carefully. Although they were test pilots except for one guy, they did do geology up there, so they were doing experiments. On Skylab they did a lot of experiments. So I just figured we’d be doing stuff like that, and it wasn’t that far off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned working with the engineers. I was wondering what interaction you had with the flight controllers and flight directors, learning to work with the mission control team."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I think of them as being engineers. [Laughter] They are engineers. The guys from the life-support group I was talking about, they’re in there too. They’re in the back rooms and then they’ve got somebody on console. I don’t separate those two groups. I just don’t. To me, they’re the same thing. Sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also you talked about how important your work was on the life support. I was wondering if you could be a little bit more specific with some of the issues that you mentioned, the dirty air, for instance, and then obviously the head on the Shuttle, but maybe some of these other things that were really critical problems as you were going along."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.280242900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. For both of them. In fact, I still interact with Earl Cook, who is the guy that I did the experiments for with 3M. He’s now retired from 3M, and we trade e-mails. So that even went beyond the results, because 3M pulled out of the space business. So there wasn’t anything else to follow there. For Magellan, see that globe of Venus which I got from Dr. [James W. Head]…he’s at Brown [University, Providence, Rhode Island]. …He sent me a globe of Venus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. …His name is Dr. [Jim Head], he’s really nice, and he keeps sending me slides saying, “See the great work you did,” and all that kind of stuff. So it’s really neat. It’s really neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A nice connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, it really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a couple of more, I promise."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.311381000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. …His name is Dr. [Jim Head], he’s really nice, and he keeps sending me slides saying, “See the great work you did,” and all that kind of stuff. So it’s really neat. It’s really neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A nice connection."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, it really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a couple of more, I promise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your flight being the first time they used the RMS as the cherry picker [for a construction experiment], and from what I understand, it wasn’t necessarily a foregone conclusion that you could use the arm in that manner."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.457090000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, it really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a couple of more, I promise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your flight being the first time they used the RMS as the cherry picker [for a construction experiment], and from what I understand, it wasn’t necessarily a foregone conclusion that you could use the arm in that manner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with any of that process?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.730100000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned your flight being the first time they used the RMS as the cherry picker [for a construction experiment], and from what I understand, it wasn’t necessarily a foregone conclusion that you could use the arm in that manner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved with any of that process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us a little about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00088:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of days the first flight. When people would call me from behind and I’d turn around and I’d overturn, just managing the momentum of my body. You can’t beat sleeping floating around. It’s hard to get used to sleeping on a mattress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything that you would like to add or any other thoughts that you have before we close today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in general, I think, working—this goes for every NASA Center, but I’ll say working at Johnson Space Center, I mean, you really are lucky if you get to do that. You get to work in an environment with a bunch of dedicated people that are smart, that want to do something, and it’s a shared value kind of thing. I felt like I was really lucky because I got to work—sort of bridge the gap. I’m really happy I got in there early enough that I got to work with some of the old guys, because they were really incredible, and got to fly with them. I think that was really something that was very, very special, even though some of them were really difficult to work with. [Laughter] It was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We appreciate all that you’ve done for the space program and for taking the time today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you have a busy schedule, and we appreciate you being here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00246:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 24, "return_to_go": 41.730000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is funny. There are just things people don’t think about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, and that’s why I’d like to get it on tape, because I don’t think that people think about these things. They’re just accustomed to what life is like today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they built the new engineering building at the University of Texas—this was in the mid-seventies, I think. And of course, to save money, they only put women’s restrooms on every other floor because there weren’t that many girls going to school there—to heck with the secretaries; they just have to walk. But then worse than that, they put the Society of Women Engineers’ office on a floor that didn’t have a women’s restroom. It’s like, “What do you do? Do you think?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve mentioned the Society of Women Engineers several times. Why did you decide to become involved in this organization?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00184:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.952174110000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, maybe you said it right there, really, that if we're going to continue space exploration, human space exploration, it's extremely important that each program that we undertake, that we do, that we do it correctly, we do it safely, that we do it correctly and as completely and with as much return for people -I hate the corny phrases like \"humankind\" and all that -but for people all over the world. And, gosh, the benefits that we have already gotten from space flight are absolutely enormous. We wouldn't be able to operate the way we do today if it weren't for the technologies that were developed, maybe for different reasons, but the technologies that were there, that industry has been able to pick up and hand back to us as usable tools that we use in our everyday life.\\n\\n The thing that I think that in this profession that we learn and accept is that the things that we are going do, the stones that we turn over today or this week, probably are not going to be able to have direct application for a number of years. It's going to take a long time, some of them ten, maybe fifteen years, but that technology and that experience eventually will be applied, and it's just a long lead time sometimes. Sometimes it's not, but sometimes it takes a long time. So the things that we've doing today that we think maybe are not too significant or not too applicable, and certainly many of our critics think are not applicable, we've already seen that all we have to do is wait a little while until somebody's able to make it a worthwhile tool for everybody to use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask Carol and Paul if they have any questions. Paul?\n\nHow many trips did you take to Russia? Did you ever count?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of us really counted them up. I would guess twelve or fifteen, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you like the Russian winters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I didn't mind them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because you grew up in Kansas?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00184:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7246379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of us really counted them up. I would guess twelve or fifteen, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you like the Russian winters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I didn't mind them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because you grew up in Kansas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't the growing up in Kansas so much, I don't think, although there may be a little similarity there, because it's pretty flat over there in Moscow and the wind blows and there's snow on the ground. But it's a dry cold, and, to be honest, most of the times I was there in the winter, the wind wasn't blowing really bad. So it was cold, the temperature was cold, but it was not uncomfortable. You could get out and walk around the streets at night. It was dry. There was snow on the ground, but it was a crunchy snow.\\n\\n I wouldn't want to live in Russia. I'm not looking to buy my retirement home on the Moscow River -don't get me wrong -but I have never really been to Russia at a time when the weather was a very distasteful factor. Now, Baikonur was pretty windy and cold when we were down there, but that's up on the steppes, and that really did get cold down there. I certainly wouldn't want to retire at Baikonur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that you've had this experience and still have experience with the Russians and this whole project, are you glad you threw your hat in that door the first time General Stafford -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00184:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.582931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I didn't mind them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because you grew up in Kansas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't the growing up in Kansas so much, I don't think, although there may be a little similarity there, because it's pretty flat over there in Moscow and the wind blows and there's snow on the ground. But it's a dry cold, and, to be honest, most of the times I was there in the winter, the wind wasn't blowing really bad. So it was cold, the temperature was cold, but it was not uncomfortable. You could get out and walk around the streets at night. It was dry. There was snow on the ground, but it was a crunchy snow.\\n\\n I wouldn't want to live in Russia. I'm not looking to buy my retirement home on the Moscow River -don't get me wrong -but I have never really been to Russia at a time when the weather was a very distasteful factor. Now, Baikonur was pretty windy and cold when we were down there, but that's up on the steppes, and that really did get cold down there. I certainly wouldn't want to retire at Baikonur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that you've had this experience and still have experience with the Russians and this whole project, are you glad you threw your hat in that door the first time General Stafford -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, you bet. You betcha. Again, I didn't throw my hat in; it was General Stafford that threw my hat in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's get that clear. [Laughter]\n\nGood thing your head wasn't in it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00184:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 11.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there certainly was a difference. I think the knowledge gained from my previous career, I was prepared for the fact that there were two classes. There was the technically elite class, and they were rewarded, if not by paychecks, certainly by benefits -apartments, nice apartments to live in, accommodations, places to vacation. You could see a little bit of that carry over initially when we went over there. But on the streets, it was entirely a different story. Unfortunately now, the technical experts are not benefiting from what wealth is coming in, what income is coming in to the Russian folks. As you know, many of them have been paid for a number of months, and the pay that they do get is a paltry sum compared with some of the other -and they're having the same problems that we briefly saw in this country a number of years ago. The young people aren't interested in going into the engineering and technical fields because they can't make a living in those fields. They're going into the business fields and other areas where the money is flowing right now. So it doesn't bode well for the long-range technical, or, I think, the long-range economy, in my opinion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your days of poking around at test pilot school was well worth where you are right now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. [Laughter] Absolutely. In fact, I'd give anything to go back and do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your time. Is there anything you want to add that you can think of that we didn't cover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't think of a thing. You've been very thorough. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have, too. Thanks so much for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.779717793501998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got out of the Army Air Corps in 1946, came back to [University of] Alabama [Tuscaloosa], and got my engineering degree in aeronautical engineering. When I was about to graduate I thought I was going to have to take a job building Pullman [railroad] cars in Birmingham, and along came an NACA recruiter, and he was recruiting aeronautical engineers at Alabama. He picked me and about three others of my classmates to come to NACA Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia]. That’s how I first was introduced to NACA. I didn’t know too much about it before that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was 1946?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was 1947, October ’47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you know that you were going to be doing when you went to work there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except it was going to be in aeronautics."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 33.08857532611333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was 1947, October ’47."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you know that you were going to be doing when you went to work there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except it was going to be in aeronautics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the first days that you were there, where you were assigned, and some of the first projects."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.9873059179037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Except it was going to be in aeronautics."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I guess so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the first days that you were there, where you were assigned, and some of the first projects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The main thing was coming and finding a place to live in that area. But it happened that one of the people that was going to be sent to Edwards Air Force Base [California] had just given up his apartment—he was being sent there so we were able to lease his apartment. My wife got a job in the school system, and so NACA personnel people helped us a lot. But the first day I came on board, I was assigned to the Flight Division there. The Army Air Corps at that time was allowing NACA to use a hangar and office buildings there for their use. I was assigned to the Flight Division, and Mel [Melvin N.] Gough was the Chief of the Division. They had a project there which they had an engineer named Bernie [Bernard B.] Klawans who was the project engineer. I was assigned to him to take over the project. He was going on to other things.\\n\\n The project is as follows. A sheet of acetate was placed over a large hole in a large tank. A supersonic nozzle was bolted to the tank. The tank was pumped down to create a vacuum. A solenoid with a sharp point was actuated to puncture the sheet of plastic. Supersonic flow was induced through the nozzle around an aerodynamic shaped body which had been placed in the throat of the nozzle. A drag sensor measured the drag on the shape. Many different shaped bodies could be tested cheaply. I have a report, this project and five others which I authored with other engineers. Every three years NACA had an open house to show off some of their projects, and I got to show my project during this period. The visitors were mostly congressmen and other notables, and I was really scared of giving my presentation. I went on to other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mr. Yeates, tell us how your experience from World War II and being a pilot helped you in your job at NACA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.155426499182028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, it didn’t help me at all, because in World War II I was a troop carrier pilot. We towed gliders and dropped paratroops in combat. Luckily I only had some bullet holes in my aircraft, I didn’t get shot down or anything. But really I’d been interested in aeronautics all my life. I had built model planes as a boy and young man coming up.\\n\\n I decided I wanted to go into aeronautics. The recruiters came by Mississippi State [University] where I was going to school, and they were looking for pilots, and so I passed the physical, and they told me, “Well, we’ll see you later.” Then I got into the Army Air Corps and graduated, got my pilot’s wings, and of course went into military service. Then when I came out I went to college again and then I was hired by NACA.\\n\\n I went through all my aviation cadet training in Mississippi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the way through?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way through. I went through Madison, Mississippi, Primary, Greenville, Mississippi, Basic, and Columbus, Mississippi, Advanced. I only lived 15 miles away in Aberdeen, Mississippi. Since I knew the commandant in basic, he said, “Would you like to go to your hometown for advanced training?” I said, “Yes, sir.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was nice. Kept you from getting homesick, anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I did go to Texas when I was in the Army Air Corps. I trained glider pilots at Lubbock, Texas, that’s just a side effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about your first impressions when you first got to Langley Field and the different type of facilities there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 27.95047388798003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way through. I went through Madison, Mississippi, Primary, Greenville, Mississippi, Basic, and Columbus, Mississippi, Advanced. I only lived 15 miles away in Aberdeen, Mississippi. Since I knew the commandant in basic, he said, “Would you like to go to your hometown for advanced training?” I said, “Yes, sir.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was nice. Kept you from getting homesick, anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I did go to Texas when I was in the Army Air Corps. I trained glider pilots at Lubbock, Texas, that’s just a side effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about your first impressions when you first got to Langley Field and the different type of facilities there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had hired I don’t know how many, maybe 1,000, engineers at that time because they were reinvigorating NACA. A lot of the people had stayed on during the war because it allowed them to be deferred. They had a program that you went once a week to be told all about NACA and what they did. We did that for probably six months to be indoctrinated into NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to somewhat choose what area you wanted to go into? Or did they place and reassign you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 29.944970986644478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I did go to Texas when I was in the Army Air Corps. I trained glider pilots at Lubbock, Texas, that’s just a side effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about your first impressions when you first got to Langley Field and the different type of facilities there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had hired I don’t know how many, maybe 1,000, engineers at that time because they were reinvigorating NACA. A lot of the people had stayed on during the war because it allowed them to be deferred. They had a program that you went once a week to be told all about NACA and what they did. We did that for probably six months to be indoctrinated into NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to somewhat choose what area you wanted to go into? Or did they place and reassign you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you were placed. Most of the time you were placed by your supervisor. My supervisor at that time was Tom [Thomas J.] Voglewede. He’s probably dead by now. In fact I don’t know, most of the people I know are dead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned one assignment. What are some of the other areas that you worked in that you were interested in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.199010801165183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It entailed taking the helicopter and flying it through different categories. They have transition, vortex-ring state, landing approach, yawed flight, that sort of thing. To see how the helicopter responded to these things.\\n\\n Then what they did, we had bought vibration testing equipment, and so George Brooks used this to hook up. We took the helicopter over to the Structures Division and they would hook up these vibration devices to get the aircraft to respond in its natural modes. Then they would use these to calculate what they thought you would get in the actual flight helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you actually fly the helicopter yourself then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It takes a real qualified person to fly a helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious if they had taught you how to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had flown. Later when I worked for the Army, when I went up to visit contractors, yes, they would let me fly the helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew it was totally different from flying a military plane."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.776678667961315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It takes a real qualified person to fly a helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious if they had taught you how to do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had flown. Later when I worked for the Army, when I went up to visit contractors, yes, they would let me fly the helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew it was totally different from flying a military plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s entirely different, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought that was a pretty good learning curve, you were able to manage that, but you just made sure that those experiments—you were in charge of the experiments that went out on those helicopters."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.196309631068127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had flown. Later when I worked for the Army, when I went up to visit contractors, yes, they would let me fly the helicopter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew it was totally different from flying a military plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s entirely different, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought that was a pretty good learning curve, you were able to manage that, but you just made sure that those experiments—you were in charge of the experiments that went out on those helicopters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Army was pretty good about giving us aircraft. We got an H-34, we got an F-80, in different experiments. Then we got the Chinook helicopter.\\n\\n Now when I flew in the F-80, I flew with the pilot to see how it felt. I’m jumping back. I had to go over to the Air Force and get checked out in a G [gravity] seat simulator, which they would shoot you up in a G seat to about 5G or something like that, to see if you were physically qualified to go along on the flight. Then after I did this they qualified me to fly. I went up in the F-80 on one of the experiments. I went up in the F-80 and we went through a high Mach number .75 and I got to experience how it felt in buffeting.\\n\\n We also had equipped the pilot. We had put instruments on his head to measure how it affected him. I can’t think of the name right now. It has a name for it. It’s a medical name about how the pilot felt in the buffeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty interesting. You were running experiments on the aircraft itself but at the same time were able to see what effects that had on the pilot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.773677367853475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it’s entirely different, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought that was a pretty good learning curve, you were able to manage that, but you just made sure that those experiments—you were in charge of the experiments that went out on those helicopters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Army was pretty good about giving us aircraft. We got an H-34, we got an F-80, in different experiments. Then we got the Chinook helicopter.\\n\\n Now when I flew in the F-80, I flew with the pilot to see how it felt. I’m jumping back. I had to go over to the Air Force and get checked out in a G [gravity] seat simulator, which they would shoot you up in a G seat to about 5G or something like that, to see if you were physically qualified to go along on the flight. Then after I did this they qualified me to fly. I went up in the F-80 on one of the experiments. I went up in the F-80 and we went through a high Mach number .75 and I got to experience how it felt in buffeting.\\n\\n We also had equipped the pilot. We had put instruments on his head to measure how it affected him. I can’t think of the name right now. It has a name for it. It’s a medical name about how the pilot felt in the buffeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty interesting. You were running experiments on the aircraft itself but at the same time were able to see what effects that had on the pilot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, encephalography I think is the term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of your overall experiment? Or was that part of someone else’s experiment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.52630818650386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Army was pretty good about giving us aircraft. We got an H-34, we got an F-80, in different experiments. Then we got the Chinook helicopter.\\n\\n Now when I flew in the F-80, I flew with the pilot to see how it felt. I’m jumping back. I had to go over to the Air Force and get checked out in a G [gravity] seat simulator, which they would shoot you up in a G seat to about 5G or something like that, to see if you were physically qualified to go along on the flight. Then after I did this they qualified me to fly. I went up in the F-80 on one of the experiments. I went up in the F-80 and we went through a high Mach number .75 and I got to experience how it felt in buffeting.\\n\\n We also had equipped the pilot. We had put instruments on his head to measure how it affected him. I can’t think of the name right now. It has a name for it. It’s a medical name about how the pilot felt in the buffeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty interesting. You were running experiments on the aircraft itself but at the same time were able to see what effects that had on the pilot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, encephalography I think is the term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of your overall experiment? Or was that part of someone else’s experiment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just a side effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a side effect. The helicopter and then you were just talking about the F-80."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.251453540559844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, encephalography I think is the term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of your overall experiment? Or was that part of someone else’s experiment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just a side effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a side effect. The helicopter and then you were just talking about the F-80."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, first we flew the F-80, and then I was then assigned after we did those experiments. I was assigned to Gustafson for the helicopters. Before I left there we did some “Flight Measurements of the Vibration Experienced by a Tandem Helicopter in Transition, Vortex-Ring State, Landing, Approach, and Yawed Flight.” Came out in September ‘58 just before I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you leave?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.946059489510937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was just a side effect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just a side effect. The helicopter and then you were just talking about the F-80."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, first we flew the F-80, and then I was then assigned after we did those experiments. I was assigned to Gustafson for the helicopters. Before I left there we did some “Flight Measurements of the Vibration Experienced by a Tandem Helicopter in Transition, Vortex-Ring State, Landing, Approach, and Yawed Flight.” Came out in September ‘58 just before I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on to greener pastures October 1st, 1958, which was the day NACA became NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When others were transitioning over you started a new job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.717843877234372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, first we flew the F-80, and then I was then assigned after we did those experiments. I was assigned to Gustafson for the helicopters. Before I left there we did some “Flight Measurements of the Vibration Experienced by a Tandem Helicopter in Transition, Vortex-Ring State, Landing, Approach, and Yawed Flight.” Came out in September ‘58 just before I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went on to greener pastures October 1st, 1958, which was the day NACA became NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When others were transitioning over you started a new job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Army over at Fort Eustis hired a lot of NACA people. NACA trained them, see, and then the Army was able to offer them more pay. But I also had a lot of programs with NASA after I went to work for the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Could you share some of those and talk about that some?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 13.478819601523917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Army over at Fort Eustis hired a lot of NACA people. NACA trained them, see, and then the Army was able to offer them more pay. But I also had a lot of programs with NASA after I went to work for the Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Could you share some of those and talk about that some?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In October of ’58 I went over to AVLABS, which was the Army Aviation Materiel Laboratories at Fort Eustis. They had taken over the aeronautics work that the Army needed to do. The people at Wright Field [Wright-Patterson Air Force Base] had been doing it for the Army and so the Army decided that they’d want to do their own aeronautical research. We did the 6.2 research at Fort Eustis, which is applied research.\\n\\n In applied research you generally make models of the thing you want to investigate, whereas in basics it’s all analytical, it’s all that way. The first project that we had, we went back and came up with a project with Gustafson at NASA; you’re not interested in that though, are you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA had always wanted to measure the flight loads on a helicopter rotor blade. The Army had the money to get Sikorsky Aircraft to build a special blade that had pressure transducers all along the blade and crosswise, spanwise too, across the aerodynamic shape of the blade. I was the project engineer on that. I used to go to Sikorsky about once a month to keep up with the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was an interesting time when all this new innovation was coming out, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.418133884120599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then later we had a project. The Army wanted to measure the aircraft landing loads on rough terrain operations. They teamed up with NASA. They have a Landing Loads Section over there which has a track, landing loads track. We brought up a carload of Mississippi mud. Can you imagine that? Put it out on the track to test. [McDonnell] Douglas was the contractor for the Army. They had a landing gear which we then tested on the Mississippi mud, which is rough as heck, pretty rough. That was a project that somebody at NASA wrote a report. NASA always had to write a report on their work before you could get in their good graces. Douglas Aircraft wrote the Army report.\\n\\n Then another program we had with Langley was—I don’t know whether you ever heard of it or not. But Lockheed built the rigid rotor helicopter. When it became a prototype the Army was going to use it as one of their helicopters in the fleet. But the rigid rotor had an aeroelastic problem and it disintegrated in flight one time, so that killed the Army project. They didn’t develop that helicopter at all. But we did the model testing in the Freon Tunnel. Have you ever heard of the Freon Tunnel?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the model testing with Lockheed in California, and they built the model and brought it to Langley to test in the Freon Tunnel, and that was part of the overall project. That was the type two—that was the experimental part of the program, before you actually built a prototype.\\n\\n Then we had another project. Trying to think of all these projects we had with NASA. Of course all these helicopters, the Air Force in those days did loan them to NASA for their use, which is what they do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a mutual benefit that NASA learned as well as the Army had the research done on those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I don’t know whether the Army got much out of it, but they learned about buffeting, they learned about flight accelerations, vibration. They learned about all these things in working with NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vibration is a pretty important facet in flying, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.9090376490228875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did the model testing with Lockheed in California, and they built the model and brought it to Langley to test in the Freon Tunnel, and that was part of the overall project. That was the type two—that was the experimental part of the program, before you actually built a prototype.\\n\\n Then we had another project. Trying to think of all these projects we had with NASA. Of course all these helicopters, the Air Force in those days did loan them to NASA for their use, which is what they do now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a mutual benefit that NASA learned as well as the Army had the research done on those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I don’t know whether the Army got much out of it, but they learned about buffeting, they learned about flight accelerations, vibration. They learned about all these things in working with NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vibration is a pretty important facet in flying, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They learned a lot about it now and are able to design the helicopters now to minimize the vibration. I’m trying to think of another project here. George Brooks and I worked a lot together. He finally became—I think he became head of the Structures Division, before he left. He came in one day and went to his personal papers and looked at it and said, “Golly, I think I’m going to retire.” He retired the same day. That’s the story I’m told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Man could make a decision, couldn’t he? Pretty confident in that. You were there almost 10 years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.343375165580986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. I don’t know whether the Army got much out of it, but they learned about buffeting, they learned about flight accelerations, vibration. They learned about all these things in working with NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Vibration is a pretty important facet in flying, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They learned a lot about it now and are able to design the helicopters now to minimize the vibration. I’m trying to think of another project here. George Brooks and I worked a lot together. He finally became—I think he became head of the Structures Division, before he left. He came in one day and went to his personal papers and looked at it and said, “Golly, I think I’m going to retire.” He retired the same day. That’s the story I’m told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Man could make a decision, couldn’t he? Pretty confident in that. You were there almost 10 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eleven years, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eleven years, okay. During that time period it not only transitioned to NASA of course, but the space age was starting to come up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.825972406201096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They learned a lot about it now and are able to design the helicopters now to minimize the vibration. I’m trying to think of another project here. George Brooks and I worked a lot together. He finally became—I think he became head of the Structures Division, before he left. He came in one day and went to his personal papers and looked at it and said, “Golly, I think I’m going to retire.” He retired the same day. That’s the story I’m told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Man could make a decision, couldn’t he? Pretty confident in that. You were there almost 10 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eleven years, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eleven years, okay. During that time period it not only transitioned to NASA of course, but the space age was starting to come up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Before I left they were testing doing some preliminary space work, space testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.362191562445662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eleven years, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Eleven years, okay. During that time period it not only transitioned to NASA of course, but the space age was starting to come up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Before I left they were testing doing some preliminary space work, space testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware that they were doing it as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.957990624939624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Before I left they were testing doing some preliminary space work, space testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware that they were doing it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the aeronautical area. No, we pretty much kept separated. You did your thing, we did our thing, but somebody kept up with what you were doing so that you didn’t duplicate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reports that were written. Were people like you, if you wanted to go to the library and read those, were they accessible for you to learn from?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.508878472155137, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn’t involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware that they were doing it as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the aeronautical area. No, we pretty much kept separated. You did your thing, we did our thing, but somebody kept up with what you were doing so that you didn’t duplicate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reports that were written. Were people like you, if you wanted to go to the library and read those, were they accessible for you to learn from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re still in the library. No. It’s hard to get hold of reports now. I went to the Internet and pulled up some of this. In fact I’ve written—I couldn’t pull them up though. I had trouble pulling them up. But you could go to the NASA Library and ask for these reports. Give me all the reports under my name, and they could probably print them right out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s good to know that people can still get to the work that you did. I’m sure it’s still useful."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.120976080172375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the aeronautical area. No, we pretty much kept separated. You did your thing, we did our thing, but somebody kept up with what you were doing so that you didn’t duplicate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reports that were written. Were people like you, if you wanted to go to the library and read those, were they accessible for you to learn from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re still in the library. No. It’s hard to get hold of reports now. I went to the Internet and pulled up some of this. In fact I’ve written—I couldn’t pull them up though. I had trouble pulling them up. But you could go to the NASA Library and ask for these reports. Give me all the reports under my name, and they could probably print them right out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s good to know that people can still get to the work that you did. I’m sure it’s still useful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course it’s been proceeded by now. They’ve learned a lot more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Served as a good foundation though, built upon, and then people built from you as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.024658546189815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t understand why the history part of NASA at Headquarters didn’t come up with a history program before everybody passed along."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know you all are contractors, aren’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I’m pretty perceptive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you are. You didn’t have any interest in working with the Space Task Group or the people who were starting to form?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.805176162433128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know you all are contractors, aren’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I’m pretty perceptive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you are. You didn’t have any interest in working with the Space Task Group or the people who were starting to form?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t asked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you have liked to have moved to that part?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.67241795825903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I’m pretty perceptive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you are. You didn’t have any interest in working with the Space Task Group or the people who were starting to form?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t asked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you have liked to have moved to that part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was more attuned with what I’d been doing. A lot of people that I worked with had moved from NACA, NASA, mostly NACA, but then later some came from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you still had friends that you had from there like Mr. Brooks."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.636019953621144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t asked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you have liked to have moved to that part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was more attuned with what I’d been doing. A lot of people that I worked with had moved from NACA, NASA, mostly NACA, but then later some came from NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you still had friends that you had from there like Mr. Brooks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know whether he’s still alive yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still worked with him after you left NACA? Did you all do any more projects together between the Army and NACA with Mr. Brooks? Or just other ones?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.896320930396472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know whether he’s still alive yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still worked with him after you left NACA? Did you all do any more projects together between the Army and NACA with Mr. Brooks? Or just other ones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. The only one—no, we did with mostly with people in Gustafson’s group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The helicopters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting. How long were you with the Army at Fort Eustis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.995912144884969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. The only one—no, we did with mostly with people in Gustafson’s group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The helicopters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting. How long were you with the Army at Fort Eustis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 20 years. I retired as a GS-15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do other projects other than helicopters? Did they move you on to other things there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.773235716538853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting. How long were you with the Army at Fort Eustis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 20 years. I retired as a GS-15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do other projects other than helicopters? Did they move you on to other things there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was Chief of the Aeromechanics group. We did projects in aircraft, helicopter performance or V/STOL [Vertical and/or Short Takeoff and Landing]. We did performance, vibrations, structures studies. Stability and control, all of those more or less 6.2 research. Most all of our work was with contractors. In other words the Army didn’t do any of their own work. The contractor would come in with a project that he wanted to sell. If you liked it, and you thought it would be of benefit to the Army, then you could promote it. We had the money. I had a couple million dollars every year to do research projects. Then we could sell the program and contract it. Then I had about 15 engineers that worked for me and they would take one of these projects. Or sometimes they would come up with their own project and try to promote it. We did work in a more varied range of programs.\\n\\n The Army basic research headquarters is in Durham, North Carolina. But they do the why the grass is green and all that kind of stuff, the basic research stuff. We used to work with them a lot, but that’s not NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a project that you remember though?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.636928573932058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 20 years. I retired as a GS-15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do other projects other than helicopters? Did they move you on to other things there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was Chief of the Aeromechanics group. We did projects in aircraft, helicopter performance or V/STOL [Vertical and/or Short Takeoff and Landing]. We did performance, vibrations, structures studies. Stability and control, all of those more or less 6.2 research. Most all of our work was with contractors. In other words the Army didn’t do any of their own work. The contractor would come in with a project that he wanted to sell. If you liked it, and you thought it would be of benefit to the Army, then you could promote it. We had the money. I had a couple million dollars every year to do research projects. Then we could sell the program and contract it. Then I had about 15 engineers that worked for me and they would take one of these projects. Or sometimes they would come up with their own project and try to promote it. We did work in a more varied range of programs.\\n\\n The Army basic research headquarters is in Durham, North Carolina. But they do the why the grass is green and all that kind of stuff, the basic research stuff. We used to work with them a lot, but that’s not NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a project that you remember though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one I remember is this basic flight data that you get from a specially instrumented blade on the helicopter, because it was quite technically detailed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a long-ranging project that took years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.596587304368953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was Chief of the Aeromechanics group. We did projects in aircraft, helicopter performance or V/STOL [Vertical and/or Short Takeoff and Landing]. We did performance, vibrations, structures studies. Stability and control, all of those more or less 6.2 research. Most all of our work was with contractors. In other words the Army didn’t do any of their own work. The contractor would come in with a project that he wanted to sell. If you liked it, and you thought it would be of benefit to the Army, then you could promote it. We had the money. I had a couple million dollars every year to do research projects. Then we could sell the program and contract it. Then I had about 15 engineers that worked for me and they would take one of these projects. Or sometimes they would come up with their own project and try to promote it. We did work in a more varied range of programs.\\n\\n The Army basic research headquarters is in Durham, North Carolina. But they do the why the grass is green and all that kind of stuff, the basic research stuff. We used to work with them a lot, but that’s not NACA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a project that you remember though?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one I remember is this basic flight data that you get from a specially instrumented blade on the helicopter, because it was quite technically detailed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a long-ranging project that took years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I left I think before they really flight-tested the helicopter. But someone at NASA wrote a report on it, I’m sure. But I don’t know. Who are the other people you’ve found that you—any that I might know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know. We’re talking to Bill [Wilmer H.] Reed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.551763671521059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one I remember is this basic flight data that you get from a specially instrumented blade on the helicopter, because it was quite technically detailed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a long-ranging project that took years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I left I think before they really flight-tested the helicopter. But someone at NASA wrote a report on it, I’m sure. But I don’t know. Who are the other people you’ve found that you—any that I might know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know. We’re talking to Bill [Wilmer H.] Reed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked with Bill Reed at a recent alumni meeting. His wife died recently.\\n\\n We worked together. We used to sell insulation on the side, Bill Reed. Ask him if he remembers the aluminum foil insulation we used to sell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I will do that. I will do that. Branching out, that’s right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.61307074613451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I left I think before they really flight-tested the helicopter. But someone at NASA wrote a report on it, I’m sure. But I don’t know. Who are the other people you’ve found that you—any that I might know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know. We’re talking to Bill [Wilmer H.] Reed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked with Bill Reed at a recent alumni meeting. His wife died recently.\\n\\n We worked together. We used to sell insulation on the side, Bill Reed. Ask him if he remembers the aluminum foil insulation we used to sell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I will do that. I will do that. Branching out, that’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got any more?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see. We talked to—trying to think, Sandra. Who else have we talked to this weekend?\n\nBill [William C.] Woods."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.792300829038343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talked with Bill Reed at a recent alumni meeting. His wife died recently.\\n\\n We worked together. We used to sell insulation on the side, Bill Reed. Ask him if he remembers the aluminum foil insulation we used to sell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I will do that. I will do that. Branching out, that’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got any more?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see. We talked to—trying to think, Sandra. Who else have we talked to this weekend?\n\nBill [William C.] Woods."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He worked the wind tunnel. He was a wind tunnel man."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.880334254487048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got any more?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see. We talked to—trying to think, Sandra. Who else have we talked to this weekend?\n\nBill [William C.] Woods."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He worked the wind tunnel. He was a wind tunnel man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did some other work with the Army. We put a full-scale helicopter in the [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] 40-by-80 Wind Tunnel. It was probably an add-on to this program where we built the special blade. But I wasn’t involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been something to see for those who were there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.978149171652275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He worked the wind tunnel. He was a wind tunnel man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did some other work with the Army. We put a full-scale helicopter in the [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] 40-by-80 Wind Tunnel. It was probably an add-on to this program where we built the special blade. But I wasn’t involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been something to see for those who were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Ames finally doubled the size of the tunnel, they made it 80 by 160. Now it’s closed down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work much directly with the wind tunnels here at Langley?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.086832412946972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did some other work with the Army. We put a full-scale helicopter in the [NASA] Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] 40-by-80 Wind Tunnel. It was probably an add-on to this program where we built the special blade. But I wasn’t involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been something to see for those who were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Ames finally doubled the size of the tunnel, they made it 80 by 160. Now it’s closed down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work much directly with the wind tunnels here at Langley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sure. We knew the people that ran them. Is [Robert W.] Boswinkle still living?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.20759156994108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Ames finally doubled the size of the tunnel, they made it 80 by 160. Now it’s closed down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work much directly with the wind tunnels here at Langley?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sure. We knew the people that ran them. Is [Robert W.] Boswinkle still living?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked with him. He was in charge of the Freon tunnel I think at one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to ask Mr. Duncan McIver. He’s in charge of the Alumni Association, so he probably would know more. He came in I think about the time you were leaving, because he was there the last three months of NACA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.230657299934533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, sure. We knew the people that ran them. Is [Robert W.] Boswinkle still living?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked with him. He was in charge of the Freon tunnel I think at one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to ask Mr. Duncan McIver. He’s in charge of the Alumni Association, so he probably would know more. He came in I think about the time you were leaving, because he was there the last three months of NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I knew a lot of the old-timers like Mel Gough and John Bailey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We also spoke with Bertram [D.] Aaron. He was in the IRD, the Instrument Research Division."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.367396999927259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked with him. He was in charge of the Freon tunnel I think at one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to ask Mr. Duncan McIver. He’s in charge of the Alumni Association, so he probably would know more. He came in I think about the time you were leaving, because he was there the last three months of NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I knew a lot of the old-timers like Mel Gough and John Bailey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We also spoke with Bertram [D.] Aaron. He was in the IRD, the Instrument Research Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t know him. That was a big facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you mentioned getting the telemetry, and they worked on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.630441111030287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I knew a lot of the old-timers like Mel Gough and John Bailey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We also spoke with Bertram [D.] Aaron. He was in the IRD, the Instrument Research Division."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t know him. That was a big facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you mentioned getting the telemetry, and they worked on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of folks during that time period."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:110", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.593137174111465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of folks during that time period."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had about 3,000 engineers then but I don’t know exactly. But it was a time when they were refurbishing, because I know the people that used to work there, that had worked there during the war, they weren’t allowed to take any leave or anything like that. I guess they got deferment because they were considered—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Essential?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were considered—they made them an Army private or something like that. I don’t know all the details. But in the area most of the men were young and single. The men would rent a whole house, and then they would do their own meals and everything. Have you heard about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, go ahead, tell us, it’s interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:112", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.770152415679405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they had about 3,000 engineers then but I don’t know exactly. But it was a time when they were refurbishing, because I know the people that used to work there, that had worked there during the war, they weren’t allowed to take any leave or anything like that. I guess they got deferment because they were considered—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Essential?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were considered—they made them an Army private or something like that. I don’t know all the details. But in the area most of the men were young and single. The men would rent a whole house, and then they would do their own meals and everything. Have you heard about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, go ahead, tell us, it’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would rent a house and then they would cook their own meals and all of them would live in the house, like a boardinghouse. Then the women would do the same thing. A lot of the people lived on Elizabeth Road in Hampton. We rode into work. I was the only one that had a car in my group. This is still when I was at NACA. But we would ride-pool. I would take them in. I think I did it five days a week for a long time until Chrysler started selling cars again, so I think Dodge came out early with one that you could buy. We’d ride in every day to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring that car from Alabama when you moved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.744613795199339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were considered—they made them an Army private or something like that. I don’t know all the details. But in the area most of the men were young and single. The men would rent a whole house, and then they would do their own meals and everything. Have you heard about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, go ahead, tell us, it’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would rent a house and then they would cook their own meals and all of them would live in the house, like a boardinghouse. Then the women would do the same thing. A lot of the people lived on Elizabeth Road in Hampton. We rode into work. I was the only one that had a car in my group. This is still when I was at NACA. But we would ride-pool. I would take them in. I think I did it five days a week for a long time until Chrysler started selling cars again, so I think Dodge came out early with one that you could buy. We’d ride in every day to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring that car from Alabama when you moved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bought it when I was in the Army at Little Rock, Arkansas, for $800."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a good car if it made it in from Arkansas all the way out here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.827348661332598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would rent a house and then they would cook their own meals and all of them would live in the house, like a boardinghouse. Then the women would do the same thing. A lot of the people lived on Elizabeth Road in Hampton. We rode into work. I was the only one that had a car in my group. This is still when I was at NACA. But we would ride-pool. I would take them in. I think I did it five days a week for a long time until Chrysler started selling cars again, so I think Dodge came out early with one that you could buy. We’d ride in every day to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring that car from Alabama when you moved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bought it when I was in the Army at Little Rock, Arkansas, for $800."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a good car if it made it in from Arkansas all the way out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good car, yeah. I think it had about 19,000 miles on it when I bought it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.919276290369552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bought it when I was in the Army at Little Rock, Arkansas, for $800."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a good car if it made it in from Arkansas all the way out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good car, yeah. I think it had about 19,000 miles on it when I bought it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chevrolet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure people were glad you had a way to get them all to work and back. You said your wife came with you. Was she a schoolteacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.021418100410614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a good car, yeah. I think it had about 19,000 miles on it when I bought it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chevrolet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure people were glad you had a way to get them all to work and back. You said your wife came with you. Was she a schoolteacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. During the war she worked on the Manhattan Project. You ever heard of the Manhattan Project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.023797889345126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chevrolet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure people were glad you had a way to get them all to work and back. You said your wife came with you. Was she a schoolteacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. During the war she worked on the Manhattan Project. You ever heard of the Manhattan Project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Oak Ridge [Tennessee]. She had all these professors and head of departments that came in and she’d have to show them how to do what she was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she a mathematician or scientist?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:124", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.91533098816125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. During the war she worked on the Manhattan Project. You ever heard of the Manhattan Project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At Oak Ridge [Tennessee]. She had all these professors and head of departments that came in and she’d have to show them how to do what she was doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she a mathematician or scientist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we both went to college together. Western Kentucky University now, but it was Western Kentucky State Teachers College then. Yes, she was smart. Smarter than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting that you were in Mississippi. You grew up in Mississippi, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.119236378846592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was raised in that house. That’s an antebellum home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a national landmark. General Reuben Davis’s house. He was as general in the Confederate army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are all the medals I got while I was in the service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw those when I walked in. Nice memories. So you got here and decided to stay. Did you live in Newport News or did you live in Hampton?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.243595976496213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a national landmark. General Reuben Davis’s house. He was as general in the Confederate army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are all the medals I got while I was in the service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw those when I walked in. Nice memories. So you got here and decided to stay. Did you live in Newport News or did you live in Hampton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You ever heard of Marlbank? You’re not from this area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not from here. I use a map."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.270662196106903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are all the medals I got while I was in the service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw those when I walked in. Nice memories. So you got here and decided to stay. Did you live in Newport News or did you live in Hampton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You ever heard of Marlbank? You’re not from this area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not from here. I use a map."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s over in York County. I built my own house by my own hands and hired people that’d come. They would come and help from NACA. They had a lot of people that were good workers. For $1.25 an hour you could hire them. We’d do plumbing work, do heating work, air conditioning, all that sort of stuff. Then later when my mother moved up here from Mississippi I built her a house on my property. We lived on the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.300735773452114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You ever heard of Marlbank? You’re not from this area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m not from here. I use a map."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s over in York County. I built my own house by my own hands and hired people that’d come. They would come and help from NACA. They had a lot of people that were good workers. For $1.25 an hour you could hire them. We’d do plumbing work, do heating work, air conditioning, all that sort of stuff. Then later when my mother moved up here from Mississippi I built her a house on my property. We lived on the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I left it I sold it for $1 million."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness gracious.\n\nIt was a good investment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.334150859391238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s over in York County. I built my own house by my own hands and hired people that’d come. They would come and help from NACA. They had a lot of people that were good workers. For $1.25 an hour you could hire them. We’d do plumbing work, do heating work, air conditioning, all that sort of stuff. Then later when my mother moved up here from Mississippi I built her a house on my property. We lived on the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I left it I sold it for $1 million."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Goodness gracious.\n\nIt was a good investment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I built it for $17,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good location.\n\nGood return on your investment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.758210937520046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I built it for $17,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a good location.\n\nGood return on your investment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m telling you all these things. My memory is pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes, it is good. What other things were going on when you moved here, you and your wife? Did you all live on Elizabeth Road? You mentioned a lot of people lived out there as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:148", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.064678819466717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m telling you all these things. My memory is pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes, it is good. What other things were going on when you moved here, you and your wife? Did you all live on Elizabeth Road? You mentioned a lot of people lived out there as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was another road there that some of the women lived on nearby, but I think it’s Sussex or I don’t remember what it was. But anyway there were a lot of young people here. Not many people married at that time. They did later on. I got married during the war, but luckily I made it home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that is a good thing. What year did you join the war?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:150", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.405198688296352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m telling you all these things. My memory is pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes, it is good. What other things were going on when you moved here, you and your wife? Did you all live on Elizabeth Road? You mentioned a lot of people lived out there as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was another road there that some of the women lived on nearby, but I think it’s Sussex or I don’t remember what it was. But anyway there were a lot of young people here. Not many people married at that time. They did later on. I got married during the war, but luckily I made it home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that is a good thing. What year did you join the war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1941. When the recruiters came around and you looked at all these officers riding around with good-looking girls in these fancy convertibles, I said, “Boy, that’s for me.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It worked, huh?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.894665209218168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There was another road there that some of the women lived on nearby, but I think it’s Sussex or I don’t remember what it was. But anyway there were a lot of young people here. Not many people married at that time. They did later on. I got married during the war, but luckily I made it home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that is a good thing. What year did you join the war?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1941. When the recruiters came around and you looked at all these officers riding around with good-looking girls in these fancy convertibles, I said, “Boy, that’s for me.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It worked, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra, do you have anything you want to ask?\n\nYou mentioned the women lived on whatever road it was you were talking about. A lot of those women were mathematicians and computers."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.944031122491563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra, do you have anything you want to ask?\n\nYou mentioned the women lived on whatever road it was you were talking about. A lot of those women were mathematicians and computers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We called them computresses. They had these comptometers. Ever heard of comptometers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had those. What they would do is they would write an equation. You would write the equation. Then in columns you would set down each part of the equation. Then they would come out with the answer at the end. It wasn’t until the ’50s I think that NASA Langley, one of the organizations, got a very simple type of computer I think. I can’t remember what it was. Bell Computing or something, I don’t remember. But anyway it was a long time before they actually got computers. We had a lot of women that were mathematical people, had graduated with a math degree, and they hired them as computress. I call them computresses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Computresses. I like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.493367913879514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We called them computresses. They had these comptometers. Ever heard of comptometers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had those. What they would do is they would write an equation. You would write the equation. Then in columns you would set down each part of the equation. Then they would come out with the answer at the end. It wasn’t until the ’50s I think that NASA Langley, one of the organizations, got a very simple type of computer I think. I can’t remember what it was. Bell Computing or something, I don’t remember. But anyway it was a long time before they actually got computers. We had a lot of women that were mathematical people, had graduated with a math degree, and they hired them as computress. I call them computresses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Computresses. I like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can call them what you want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve heard that. I like that, that’s a good term.\n\nDid you ever work closely with anyone in particular in that group or were they in a pool? I know they had pools."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.214853237643904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had those. What they would do is they would write an equation. You would write the equation. Then in columns you would set down each part of the equation. Then they would come out with the answer at the end. It wasn’t until the ’50s I think that NASA Langley, one of the organizations, got a very simple type of computer I think. I can’t remember what it was. Bell Computing or something, I don’t remember. But anyway it was a long time before they actually got computers. We had a lot of women that were mathematical people, had graduated with a math degree, and they hired them as computress. I call them computresses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Computresses. I like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can call them what you want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve heard that. I like that, that’s a good term.\n\nDid you ever work closely with anyone in particular in that group or were they in a pool? I know they had pools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we didn’t use a pool. We had them in our office. But we had several women, but I can’t remember their names. You have selective memory, and that’s not in my memory bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you remember or you have stories about being out there in those early days or during your transition from one to the other?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.016503597382115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can call them what you want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve heard that. I like that, that’s a good term.\n\nDid you ever work closely with anyone in particular in that group or were they in a pool? I know they had pools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we didn’t use a pool. We had them in our office. But we had several women, but I can’t remember their names. You have selective memory, and that’s not in my memory bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you remember or you have stories about being out there in those early days or during your transition from one to the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I remember they had a whirl tower there at Langley which I remember a friend of mine, Paul [J.] Carpenter, who later went to the Army. He was in charge of that whirl tower I think. They made a lot of tests on that. They put a rotor on the whirl tower and they’d whirl it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never heard of that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:166", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.018337330424572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we didn’t use a pool. We had them in our office. But we had several women, but I can’t remember their names. You have selective memory, and that’s not in my memory bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you remember or you have stories about being out there in those early days or during your transition from one to the other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I remember they had a whirl tower there at Langley which I remember a friend of mine, Paul [J.] Carpenter, who later went to the Army. He was in charge of that whirl tower I think. They made a lot of tests on that. They put a rotor on the whirl tower and they’d whirl it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never heard of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whirl tower, yes, oh, they were the big thing back—I know Lockheed built a wonderful one in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever travel? Did they send you out anyplace?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:168", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.575930367138414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I remember they had a whirl tower there at Langley which I remember a friend of mine, Paul [J.] Carpenter, who later went to the Army. He was in charge of that whirl tower I think. They made a lot of tests on that. They put a rotor on the whirl tower and they’d whirl it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never heard of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whirl tower, yes, oh, they were the big thing back—I know Lockheed built a wonderful one in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever travel? Did they send you out anyplace?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA was pretty stingy on travel, and they didn’t send you anywhere unless it was really important. The only trip I ever made was in 1956. I gave the results of one of these papers at the Helicopter Society reunion. They actually allowed me to fly, my wife and I, to New York. The hotel now is no longer there.\\n\\n Another time they loaded up a DC-3 and flew a whole bunch of us to a meeting in Washington [DC]. I think it was a helicopter convention. They wanted to cut costs so they flew us all up in a DC-3. That’s what I flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw that up there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.751033741264903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whirl tower, yes, oh, they were the big thing back—I know Lockheed built a wonderful one in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever travel? Did they send you out anyplace?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA was pretty stingy on travel, and they didn’t send you anywhere unless it was really important. The only trip I ever made was in 1956. I gave the results of one of these papers at the Helicopter Society reunion. They actually allowed me to fly, my wife and I, to New York. The hotel now is no longer there.\\n\\n Another time they loaded up a DC-3 and flew a whole bunch of us to a meeting in Washington [DC]. I think it was a helicopter convention. They wanted to cut costs so they flew us all up in a DC-3. That’s what I flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw that up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are called D-Day stripes. The Navy shot down a whole bunch of aircraft in Sicily during World War II, because the Germans had just flown over, and they thought they were the Germans, and so they kept shooting. They shot down a whole bunch of aircraft like that. For D-Day they put the stripes on so the Navy wouldn’t shoot them down. They’re called the D-Day stripes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good to know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:172", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.056704156961004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA was pretty stingy on travel, and they didn’t send you anywhere unless it was really important. The only trip I ever made was in 1956. I gave the results of one of these papers at the Helicopter Society reunion. They actually allowed me to fly, my wife and I, to New York. The hotel now is no longer there.\\n\\n Another time they loaded up a DC-3 and flew a whole bunch of us to a meeting in Washington [DC]. I think it was a helicopter convention. They wanted to cut costs so they flew us all up in a DC-3. That’s what I flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw that up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are called D-Day stripes. The Navy shot down a whole bunch of aircraft in Sicily during World War II, because the Germans had just flown over, and they thought they were the Germans, and so they kept shooting. They shot down a whole bunch of aircraft like that. For D-Day they put the stripes on so the Navy wouldn’t shoot them down. They’re called the D-Day stripes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I recognize the plane."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.507449063290004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those are called D-Day stripes. The Navy shot down a whole bunch of aircraft in Sicily during World War II, because the Germans had just flown over, and they thought they were the Germans, and so they kept shooting. They shot down a whole bunch of aircraft like that. For D-Day they put the stripes on so the Navy wouldn’t shoot them down. They’re called the D-Day stripes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good to know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I recognize the plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got all kinds of stories."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any more you can think of that you’d like to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.085664010000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not about NACA, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time we were—towards the end of the war, after the—I flew into the Battle of the Bulge and my aircraft towed a glider and dropped my ammunition and gasoline and so on at the drop zone. The Germans were shooting at us with .50-caliber and 20-millimeter cannon, and luckily I only got some small arms fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we made it there and made it back, two hours back, full throttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so. Little lighter plane than the one you had going out, I mean coming back?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.761848900000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One time we were—towards the end of the war, after the—I flew into the Battle of the Bulge and my aircraft towed a glider and dropped my ammunition and gasoline and so on at the drop zone. The Germans were shooting at us with .50-caliber and 20-millimeter cannon, and luckily I only got some small arms fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we made it there and made it back, two hours back, full throttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess so. Little lighter plane than the one you had going out, I mean coming back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was the same. When you tow—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re towing, that’s right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.409690000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, it was the same. When you tow—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re towing, that’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were towing in at 400 feet, 90 miles an hour. So you were an easy target. Also I was in Holland, the Holland invasion, which we came over from England and I towed a glider into Holland. Luckily I didn’t get shot down there either. The Germans had flak towers about eye level here. They could shoot right at you.\\n\\n I went to southern France and flew. We flew a mission to southern France in the middle of the war and the Germans were still in southern France. But it was a milk run, not a shot fired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got to see the Rock of Gibraltar though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that’s interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.344100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were towing in at 400 feet, 90 miles an hour. So you were an easy target. Also I was in Holland, the Holland invasion, which we came over from England and I towed a glider into Holland. Luckily I didn’t get shot down there either. The Germans had flak towers about eye level here. They could shoot right at you.\\n\\n I went to southern France and flew. We flew a mission to southern France in the middle of the war and the Germans were still in southern France. But it was a milk run, not a shot fired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got to see the Rock of Gibraltar though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was flying over there I got to fly from here through South America across to Ascension Island and across to Africa, and back up the coast to Morocco, and then to England. I had a personal navigator for my aircraft. He kept us on the right track, and we flew the aircraft. It took two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it was a nicer flight than some of the other ones you had."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.0489999999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got to see the Rock of Gibraltar though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that’s interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was flying over there I got to fly from here through South America across to Ascension Island and across to Africa, and back up the coast to Morocco, and then to England. I had a personal navigator for my aircraft. He kept us on the right track, and we flew the aircraft. It took two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it was a nicer flight than some of the other ones you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a good flight. We did a lot of gasoline. [General George S.] Patton’s Army. Flew a lot of gasoline up for Patton as he was going across Germany. You’d fly up to a dirt field and land. Of course the Germans at that time were on the lookout for aircraft on the ground. That was considered a combat mission because several of the aircraft got shot up on the ground. The Germans still had a few aircraft that they would make little sneak runs and shoot up the aircraft. But luckily I didn’t get shot up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many missions did you fly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.609999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was flying over there I got to fly from here through South America across to Ascension Island and across to Africa, and back up the coast to Morocco, and then to England. I had a personal navigator for my aircraft. He kept us on the right track, and we flew the aircraft. It took two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least it was a nicer flight than some of the other ones you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a good flight. We did a lot of gasoline. [General George S.] Patton’s Army. Flew a lot of gasoline up for Patton as he was going across Germany. You’d fly up to a dirt field and land. Of course the Germans at that time were on the lookout for aircraft on the ground. That was considered a combat mission because several of the aircraft got shot up on the ground. The Germans still had a few aircraft that they would make little sneak runs and shoot up the aircraft. But luckily I didn’t get shot up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many missions did you fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 17, I guess. But these were the big missions, D-Day, and then Holland, and then southern France, and then across the Rhine, those were four big missions. There were as many as 1,350 aircraft towing gliders. It took them an two hours to pass. An armada of such aircraft going into Germany and across the Rhine. Go to the Internet and look it up, it’s really magnificent. You’ll never see it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, never will. Have you been back to any of those places since you returned here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a good flight. We did a lot of gasoline. [General George S.] Patton’s Army. Flew a lot of gasoline up for Patton as he was going across Germany. You’d fly up to a dirt field and land. Of course the Germans at that time were on the lookout for aircraft on the ground. That was considered a combat mission because several of the aircraft got shot up on the ground. The Germans still had a few aircraft that they would make little sneak runs and shoot up the aircraft. But luckily I didn’t get shot up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many missions did you fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 17, I guess. But these were the big missions, D-Day, and then Holland, and then southern France, and then across the Rhine, those were four big missions. There were as many as 1,350 aircraft towing gliders. It took them an two hours to pass. An armada of such aircraft going into Germany and across the Rhine. Go to the Internet and look it up, it’s really magnificent. You’ll never see it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, never will. Have you been back to any of those places since you returned here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been to England, I’ve been to Paris, I’ve been to Belgium, and I’ve been to Rome, I’ve been all over the world. I’ve been in 32 countries, personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. At a better time. It’s good that you were able to go visit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 17, I guess. But these were the big missions, D-Day, and then Holland, and then southern France, and then across the Rhine, those were four big missions. There were as many as 1,350 aircraft towing gliders. It took them an two hours to pass. An armada of such aircraft going into Germany and across the Rhine. Go to the Internet and look it up, it’s really magnificent. You’ll never see it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, never will. Have you been back to any of those places since you returned here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been to England, I’ve been to Paris, I’ve been to Belgium, and I’ve been to Rome, I’ve been all over the world. I’ve been in 32 countries, personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. At a better time. It’s good that you were able to go visit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to Machu Picchu. You know Machu Picchu, don’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have a colleague that’s getting ready to go in a couple weeks."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00988:198", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been to England, I’ve been to Paris, I’ve been to Belgium, and I’ve been to Rome, I’ve been all over the world. I’ve been in 32 countries, personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. At a better time. It’s good that you were able to go visit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to Machu Picchu. You know Machu Picchu, don’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have a colleague that’s getting ready to go in a couple weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my wife’s heart’s desire. Before she died we went to Machu Picchu in South America, all over South America. She died of Alzheimer’s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you all had great times together."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00005:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.016760440100004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know she ... ("}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mary Rephlo) ...Mary called me and asked me ifl could get to the SAA (Society of American Archivists) meeting where they were giving her an award for the institute and I said, \"yes,\" but I had a medical problem at the time and wasn't able to come. I would have liked to. I think the institute deserved the recognition.\n\nIt did. Now ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, Ed Weldon was another one ... I took him as co-director and we had ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where did Ed work at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't in the military ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was in the National Archives ... ("}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00005:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.796400489000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, Ed Weldon was another one ... I took him as co-director and we had ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now where did Ed work at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn't in the military ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he was in the National Archives ... ("}, {"role": "user", "content": "oh yes) Because he had left and then at some point ... (\n\nyes, he went back down to Georgia) ... Right. (\n\nWe used to talk about his program at Emory where he took his doctorate and compare notes ... it was a lot offun)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind oftraining did we have for the staff? The institute is really for people coming from the outside? Internally, when you came, what kind of training program was there and did you participate in it... how did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00005:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ... I think also there was some contribution with regard to non-textual records; not so much with cartographic records, but with motion pictures and sound recordings where we had some things to teach them and they were willing to learn. I think there was a good exchange with the British-and their new building... have you been to Kew to see what they're building? ("}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "yes ...) They've done some good things. I also have a great deal ofrespect for the Canadians, who contributed greatly internationally, too.\n\nAnd now they've just merged their library and the archives ... interesting model."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who's currently the archivist?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hugh [Taylor]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ... I'm thinking of Hugh with the glasses, former Englishmen .. .let's see it was Wilson ("}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ian Wilson) Ian Wilson, oh yes, I remember him, too.\n\nPrior to this he was the provincial archivist for Ontario."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00005:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who's currently the archivist?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hugh [Taylor]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ... I'm thinking of Hugh with the glasses, former Englishmen .. .let's see it was Wilson ("}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ian Wilson) Ian Wilson, oh yes, I remember him, too.\n\nPrior to this he was the provincial archivist for Ontario."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ontario, right- yes, they've got a good program, good archival program. I've always admired them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank is there any question, or anything that we haven't covered that you want to share from a legacy perspective about the institution, about your career, or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00005:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes ... I'm thinking of Hugh with the glasses, former Englishmen .. .let's see it was Wilson ("}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ian Wilson) Ian Wilson, oh yes, I remember him, too.\n\nPrior to this he was the provincial archivist for Ontario."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ontario, right- yes, they've got a good program, good archival program. I've always admired them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank is there any question, or anything that we haven't covered that you want to share from a legacy perspective about the institution, about your career, or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel I've been fortunate in having a worthwhile career in essentially a service area. It has given me opportunities for professional growth, for personal satisfaction, for travel obviously. I feel it's a career that should prove attractive to people with a basic interest in this area, and willing to develop competence in this kind of work. I envy a young person starting their career now in archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do too. It is changing so dramatically and it's so interesting. So if we had here somebody either considering a career or just starting as an archivist here, what kind of advice would you give them?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00005:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ontario, right- yes, they've got a good program, good archival program. I've always admired them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Frank is there any question, or anything that we haven't covered that you want to share from a legacy perspective about the institution, about your career, or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I feel I've been fortunate in having a worthwhile career in essentially a service area. It has given me opportunities for professional growth, for personal satisfaction, for travel obviously. I feel it's a career that should prove attractive to people with a basic interest in this area, and willing to develop competence in this kind of work. I envy a young person starting their career now in archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do too. It is changing so dramatically and it's so interesting. So if we had here somebody either considering a career or just starting as an archivist here, what kind of advice would you give them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they don't have the doctorate in history? I think that unless the person is motivated and demonstrates competence otherwise, they should master the informational content of a significant body of records in all media. That's where they can make their major contribution- both through the description of the records and through the servicing of them to the researcher. And that's what it really is all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate the time that you spent."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00648:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 45.321041388952594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started off at Michoud in 1983 and I moved to Houston about five years ago, in 2011."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about some of the work that was going on there for Orion once you won the proposal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We knew that there were going to be several major elements of the next generation Constellation Program. Being on the External Tank Program, we thought that we had a good chance of winning the SLS [Space Launch System], the launch vehicle portion. We bid on the Crew Module portion, and a lot of people thought we didn’t have a shot at it, and were extremely pleased when we won the spacecraft portion of Constellation Program.\\n\\n Our role at the New Orleans facility was to develop all of the primary structures. We had the capability to develop the primary structures and all the thermal protection systems on the vehicle. Those were all the main roles at that location. We got started with a small team and grew the team as the program demanded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did the team grow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It grew to about 250. We started phase one with about nine people, and accomplished all the proposal work, the performance reviews, and all the initial concept development with that small staff. Then when we needed to start producing drawings and accomplish development work we needed to grow the team a little bit at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the external tank work and then with [Space] Shuttle shutting down, I imagine the workforce still shrunk even though you were growing this team, correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00648:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 54.717335048089616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It grew to about 250. We started phase one with about nine people, and accomplished all the proposal work, the performance reviews, and all the initial concept development with that small staff. Then when we needed to start producing drawings and accomplish development work we needed to grow the team a little bit at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the external tank work and then with [Space] Shuttle shutting down, I imagine the workforce still shrunk even though you were growing this team, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole time that we were working on Orion, the External Tank Program was starting to phase out. We had access to very good people with years of human spaceflight experience and we taped into that well of knowledge for Orion. We also leveraged years of NASA technology that had been developed around the External Tank Program and capitalized on advanced materials and welding processes for the Orion Program; we really stepped-up off of a very solid platform of human spaceflight technologies and developments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about that time period when the cancelation of the Constellation Program in 2010 was announced. Then the MPCV [Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle] wasn’t announced until May 2011. At NASA, they were still funded, so they were having to continue to work on a canceled project. I know your teammate Carol [L. Webber], said they were working toward this idea for EFT-1 and let’s keep working, even though things are looking bad. Let’s try to prove that we can still do this sort of thing and change people’s minds. Talk about that time period and what you were doing. I know you moved here at some point. But you were still in New Orleans when all that was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The initial part of the cancelation I was in New Orleans, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about when you first heard about that and what you were doing immediately after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.354199950762668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, I knew that I wasn't going to be a physicist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trying to figure out what I, what else I should do with my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And working with the dean of students had just, he had, um, Al, Albert [Allard] Lowenstein. Al Lowenstein had just come on the staff. And I got to know him and, you know, probably know Al from his work in New York City and so forth. And he was encouraging people to do good social work and join the Peace Corps and so forth. So he was quite an influence on my life. And as I told you today, I was, hadn't. I'd been working my way through school. And so I didn't have a lot of chance to go traveling or do any traveling. So I thought that was a good opportunity for me to join the Peace Corps, get some traveling, do some, do some good things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.50466661195852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trying to figure out what I, what else I should do with my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And working with the dean of students had just, he had, um, Al, Albert [Allard] Lowenstein. Al Lowenstein had just come on the staff. And I got to know him and, you know, probably know Al from his work in New York City and so forth. And he was encouraging people to do good social work and join the Peace Corps and so forth. So he was quite an influence on my life. And as I told you today, I was, hadn't. I'd been working my way through school. And so I didn't have a lot of chance to go traveling or do any traveling. So I thought that was a good opportunity for me to join the Peace Corps, get some traveling, do some, do some good things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I first grew up as a child in Hawaii during the Second World War. My father was, uh, was he wasn't a military, but he had. He was working as a foreman on the docks when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He wasn't hurt. Then we moved to Maui. And I grew up on Maui, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until what age?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.449629568842798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And working with the dean of students had just, he had, um, Al, Albert [Allard] Lowenstein. Al Lowenstein had just come on the staff. And I got to know him and, you know, probably know Al from his work in New York City and so forth. And he was encouraging people to do good social work and join the Peace Corps and so forth. So he was quite an influence on my life. And as I told you today, I was, hadn't. I'd been working my way through school. And so I didn't have a lot of chance to go traveling or do any traveling. So I thought that was a good opportunity for me to join the Peace Corps, get some traveling, do some, do some good things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I first grew up as a child in Hawaii during the Second World War. My father was, uh, was he wasn't a military, but he had. He was working as a foreman on the docks when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He wasn't hurt. Then we moved to Maui. And I grew up on Maui, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until what age?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About age seven. And then we came back to the Bay Area here in San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your school years and everything were in San Francisco?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.499588409825332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I first grew up as a child in Hawaii during the Second World War. My father was, uh, was he wasn't a military, but he had. He was working as a foreman on the docks when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He wasn't hurt. Then we moved to Maui. And I grew up on Maui, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Until what age?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About age seven. And then we came back to the Bay Area here in San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your school years and everything were in San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are you an only child?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.555098233139258, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About age seven. And then we came back to the Bay Area here in San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your school years and everything were in San Francisco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And are you an only child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a sister, five years younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And growing up in high school, what kind of activities did you do? What did you do with your summertime? Did you do any travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.667273636853008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And would go off on summers and work for them. So I worked my way through high school to great extent too. I went to Lowell High School in San Francisco, which was a college prep school, had a lot of a lot of wealthy society people there. I didn't have any concept of that whole society thing. And I was a swimmer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was a swimmer and he'd been to the Olympics. And so I would go to school, study, and come home. I'd go to school in the afternoons, go and swim a couple hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ended up my last year, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.074748485392231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was a swimmer and he'd been to the Olympics. And so I would go to school, study, and come home. I'd go to school in the afternoons, go and swim a couple hours a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ended up my last year, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In high school, having done quite a lot of, as a very good swimmer. So I broke all the records and all that kind of stuff. And, um, it so happened that the high school coach of the swimming team was also the football coach. So he introduced me. And so, you know, I got all these awards and so forth. And just after that was the election for student body president. So I won for student body president. And so that, that and the application got me into Stanford basically, being able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go in as a scholarship student?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.527498317102479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ended up my last year, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In high school, having done quite a lot of, as a very good swimmer. So I broke all the records and all that kind of stuff. And, um, it so happened that the high school coach of the swimming team was also the football coach. So he introduced me. And so, you know, I got all these awards and so forth. And just after that was the election for student body president. So I won for student body president. And so that, that and the application got me into Stanford basically, being able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go in as a scholarship student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went as a. I went as a swimming scholarship, and then they later on put it over to an academic scholarship."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And when you first started, how did, had you been interested in science?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.988337883542495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I started off in engineering because that was sort of the thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really hadn't been, although I went to a good college prep school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were good teachers there. I really didn't know how to study. I didn't really know much. So when I hit Stanford, it was quite a lot of work for me just to get up to speed and, um, feeling. I felt a lot of conflict. And it was like, I remember my first year I would try to work, I'd read, I'd read a passage, I'd read the same page over and over and over again because I was trying so hard. I got to get this done, I got to get this done kind of thing. And it wasn't easy. So in fact, I didn't really learn how to really learn how to think and study until like until years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. So let's jump now back to your senior year. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.320375426158328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really hadn't been, although I went to a good college prep school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were good teachers there. I really didn't know how to study. I didn't really know much. So when I hit Stanford, it was quite a lot of work for me just to get up to speed and, um, feeling. I felt a lot of conflict. And it was like, I remember my first year I would try to work, I'd read, I'd read a passage, I'd read the same page over and over and over again because I was trying so hard. I got to get this done, I got to get this done kind of thing. And it wasn't easy. So in fact, I didn't really learn how to really learn how to think and study until like until years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. So let's jump now back to your senior year. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was still president. And there's a lot of peace, a lot of Peace Corps stuff. So it was just in the news all the time at that point. They were starting the Peace Corps. And I guess, I don't know if I first heard about it there. There wasn't any recruiting on campus necessarily, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in those days."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.689306029064809, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were good teachers there. I really didn't know how to study. I didn't really know much. So when I hit Stanford, it was quite a lot of work for me just to get up to speed and, um, feeling. I felt a lot of conflict. And it was like, I remember my first year I would try to work, I'd read, I'd read a passage, I'd read the same page over and over and over again because I was trying so hard. I got to get this done, I got to get this done kind of thing. And it wasn't easy. So in fact, I didn't really learn how to really learn how to think and study until like until years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK. So let's jump now back to your senior year. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kennedy was still president. And there's a lot of peace, a lot of Peace Corps stuff. So it was just in the news all the time at that point. They were starting the Peace Corps. And I guess, I don't know if I first heard about it there. There wasn't any recruiting on campus necessarily, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in those days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I just signed up. I called, you know, wrote in the application for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that it was a fairly lengthy application process with references?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.554698801314578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I just signed up. I called, you know, wrote in the application for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that it was a fairly lengthy application process with references?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I really remember about that whole thing was when I was accepted and, you know. When I was accepted to go and they told me I was going to go to Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had heard that Ghana was a fairly easy place. It wasn't you didn't have to suffer too much. So I went to Al Lowenstein. I said, Al, I want to call and tell them to send me something more difficult. And he said, don't do it. If you do that, they'll probably not take you, they'll think you're a kook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.838554223682865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only thing I really remember about that whole thing was when I was accepted and, you know. When I was accepted to go and they told me I was going to go to Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had heard that Ghana was a fairly easy place. It wasn't you didn't have to suffer too much. So I went to Al Lowenstein. I said, Al, I want to call and tell them to send me something more difficult. And he said, don't do it. If you do that, they'll probably not take you, they'll think you're a kook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so I didn't do that. And then the second thing was that they sent around the, uh, I had to get myself fingerprinted at the local police station. And then they sent, they came around with the, uh, was it FBI or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "FBI background check."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1539491374254056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had heard that Ghana was a fairly easy place. It wasn't you didn't have to suffer too much. So I went to Al Lowenstein. I said, Al, I want to call and tell them to send me something more difficult. And he said, don't do it. If you do that, they'll probably not take you, they'll think you're a kook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so I didn't do that. And then the second thing was that they sent around the, uh, I had to get myself fingerprinted at the local police station. And then they sent, they came around with the, uh, was it FBI or?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "FBI background check."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Background check. And they, of course, they came to all the students who lived in the dorm with me, and they all told me all the stories they told these guys, what kind of a person I was. And so that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family react to your decision to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8937643671918583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Background check. And they, of course, they came to all the students who lived in the dorm with me, and they all told me all the stories they told these guys, what kind of a person I was. And so that was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your family react to your decision to join?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, very. My mother was OK, very positive. She was concerned about me being away from her for such a long time because they were divorced. My father was dead at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was. And she, that's why we didn't have a lot of money going to school, because she was just trying to work to keep up things. And, um, so. So that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your sister's reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.326404852435398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, very. My mother was OK, very positive. She was concerned about me being away from her for such a long time because they were divorced. My father was dead at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was. And she, that's why we didn't have a lot of money going to school, because she was just trying to work to keep up things. And, um, so. So that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your sister's reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was, she was in high school, so she, she didn't know, she wasn't too much involved with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about your peers at Stanford?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.807116502705997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was. And she, that's why we didn't have a lot of money going to school, because she was just trying to work to keep up things. And, um, so. So that was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your sister's reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was, she was in high school, so she, she didn't know, she wasn't too much involved with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about your peers at Stanford?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stanford was very, it was very positive about that. They thought that was a good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had had others around you joined the Peace Corps at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.34124055856222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was, she was in high school, so she, she didn't know, she wasn't too much involved with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about your peers at Stanford?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stanford was very, it was very positive about that. They thought that was a good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had had others around you joined the Peace Corps at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anybody else who actually. There were a couple of other people, I think, but I don't remember who they were at all. It was more, the influence I had was mainly from Al Lowenstein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the point you began the application process, did you have any alternatives in mind if you didn't get accepted? Did you have any sense of what you were going to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.934711731735799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stanford was very, it was very positive about that. They thought that was a good thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had had others around you joined the Peace Corps at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember anybody else who actually. There were a couple of other people, I think, but I don't remember who they were at all. It was more, the influence I had was mainly from Al Lowenstein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at the point you began the application process, did you have any alternatives in mind if you didn't get accepted? Did you have any sense of what you were going to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I figured I was gonna get accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fair enough. So you must have gotten either a telegram or a letter, saying report to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9406196594455418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got it saying you're accepted and that kind of stuff. And then they said, report to Berkeley, right? I said, oh, shit, yeah, Berkeley. I mean, they could at least send me to New York State or something different, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But of course, the Berkeley was a was. We stayed at the international house there in Berkeley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And did the summer there. And as I wrote, I wrote some articles while I was in the Peace Corps, which they published in the Stanford newspaper, the daily newspaper. And as I said in there, I said that that was a very strong. That was a, how do I say? One of the most, not intense experiences, but to go through the training, the summer training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Intense in what way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.156244066050602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But of course, the Berkeley was a was. We stayed at the international house there in Berkeley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And did the summer there. And as I wrote, I wrote some articles while I was in the Peace Corps, which they published in the Stanford newspaper, the daily newspaper. And as I said in there, I said that that was a very strong. That was a, how do I say? One of the most, not intense experiences, but to go through the training, the summer training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Intense in what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't intense. It was like, um, you felt you were. I felt that I was just cooking on all cylinders. I was just totally involved, that they were hitting me physically with all the physical things they were doing. They were hitting me with, of course, all the shots we had to take. They were hitting me with all the intellectual stuff, learning a little bit about the language and the culture. And of course, you were at Berkeley, too, I think, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's go back. Do you remember when you first reported into Berkeley? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of people who also joined the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3958267400562243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And did the summer there. And as I wrote, I wrote some articles while I was in the Peace Corps, which they published in the Stanford newspaper, the daily newspaper. And as I said in there, I said that that was a very strong. That was a, how do I say? One of the most, not intense experiences, but to go through the training, the summer training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Intense in what way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't intense. It was like, um, you felt you were. I felt that I was just cooking on all cylinders. I was just totally involved, that they were hitting me physically with all the physical things they were doing. They were hitting me with, of course, all the shots we had to take. They were hitting me with all the intellectual stuff, learning a little bit about the language and the culture. And of course, you were at Berkeley, too, I think, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's go back. Do you remember when you first reported into Berkeley? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of people who also joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think inevitably, you match yourself up against them. Did you recall any of that, you know, how you felt in relation to the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6620297111735827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't intense. It was like, um, you felt you were. I felt that I was just cooking on all cylinders. I was just totally involved, that they were hitting me physically with all the physical things they were doing. They were hitting me with, of course, all the shots we had to take. They were hitting me with all the intellectual stuff, learning a little bit about the language and the culture. And of course, you were at Berkeley, too, I think, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, let's go back. Do you remember when you first reported into Berkeley? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of people who also joined the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think inevitably, you match yourself up against them. Did you recall any of that, you know, how you felt in relation to the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing negative, it was all pretty positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9578107901928696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think inevitably, you match yourself up against them. Did you recall any of that, you know, how you felt in relation to the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing negative, it was all pretty positive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, but."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just a matter of going to classes with everybody, getting up and going and reading all the books they gave us to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how big the group was it, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6516182594973694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, just a matter of going to classes with everybody, getting up and going and reading all the books they gave us to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how big the group was it, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 50 or 60 people or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men and women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.057353621663744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about 50 or 60 people or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Men and women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Age for the most part, age range?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.009078545263881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Age for the most part, age range?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right out of college. All young people out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. There weren't, I don't think there were. I mean, most of them are. I don't remember anybody who was, had been in the military. I think that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now training usually has various components, area studies. And as we know, that was run by David Apter and Sinclair Drake. Your impression of that, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.565642828070978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right out of college. All young people out of college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. There weren't, I don't think there were. I mean, most of them are. I don't remember anybody who was, had been in the military. I think that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now training usually has various components, area studies. And as we know, that was run by David Apter and Sinclair Drake. Your impression of that, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, I was just trying to absorb everything as quick as, as much as I could, and going to classes was really. What got me was that they were, the physical ed was more oriented toward around, the physical education, was more about how do you teach physical education. It wasn't really to give us physical education. It was, you know, how do you create games for kids to play on the field, and how do you teach interesting things to kids? That was to me was very interesting. The, um, the language, the language, the medical we had. We did a lot of medical stuff, how do you keep yourself healthy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your language training structured?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.07293647563442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. There weren't, I don't think there were. I mean, most of them are. I don't remember anybody who was, had been in the military. I think that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now training usually has various components, area studies. And as we know, that was run by David Apter and Sinclair Drake. Your impression of that, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, I was just trying to absorb everything as quick as, as much as I could, and going to classes was really. What got me was that they were, the physical ed was more oriented toward around, the physical education, was more about how do you teach physical education. It wasn't really to give us physical education. It was, you know, how do you create games for kids to play on the field, and how do you teach interesting things to kids? That was to me was very interesting. The, um, the language, the language, the medical we had. We did a lot of medical stuff, how do you keep yourself healthy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your language training structured?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was, we didn't go into a lot of language. It was just an introduction to Twi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was everyone taking Twi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.636596084038245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, I was just trying to absorb everything as quick as, as much as I could, and going to classes was really. What got me was that they were, the physical ed was more oriented toward around, the physical education, was more about how do you teach physical education. It wasn't really to give us physical education. It was, you know, how do you create games for kids to play on the field, and how do you teach interesting things to kids? That was to me was very interesting. The, um, the language, the language, the medical we had. We did a lot of medical stuff, how do you keep yourself healthy?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your language training structured?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, it was, we didn't go into a lot of language. It was just an introduction to Twi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was everyone taking Twi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. At that point they didn't know where they're going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't implied that you had to learn the language in order to qualify as a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6130815852324005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. At that point they didn't know where they're going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't implied that you had to learn the language in order to qualify as a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole idea there was that, like we said, it's a former British colony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're going to be teaching in English and you just want to pick up a little bit in order to get some of the culture, in another culture and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, another big area of training is what they call technical studies. You had not trained as a teacher. You knew you were going into a teaching program. What did they do to prepare you for the skills?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.125646205813778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the whole idea there was that, like we said, it's a former British colony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're going to be teaching in English and you just want to pick up a little bit in order to get some of the culture, in another culture and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, another big area of training is what they call technical studies. You had not trained as a teacher. You knew you were going into a teaching program. What did they do to prepare you for the skills?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frankly, I don't remember too much of that. But I think they did do a little bit of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a student teaching or a practice teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2168471676713315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Frankly, I don't remember too much of that. But I think they did do a little bit of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a student teaching or a practice teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not do any student teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, um, they did go into some of the like lesson plans, how to do lesson plans and how to structure. I remember they gave us some books on that and workbooks. One of the big remembrances I have of that was we, they, one. We had to go for a night and work at the emergency room at the hospital to get an idea of just, you know, how to deal with the emergency people and so forth. And that was just an experience we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And another big component of training is what's called the selection process. Do you recall psychological testing, seeing talking to psychiatrists or psychologists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.796496852968146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did not do any student teaching."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, um, they did go into some of the like lesson plans, how to do lesson plans and how to structure. I remember they gave us some books on that and workbooks. One of the big remembrances I have of that was we, they, one. We had to go for a night and work at the emergency room at the hospital to get an idea of just, you know, how to deal with the emergency people and so forth. And that was just an experience we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And another big component of training is what's called the selection process. Do you recall psychological testing, seeing talking to psychiatrists or psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you don't recall that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.440552058853496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, um, they did go into some of the like lesson plans, how to do lesson plans and how to structure. I remember they gave us some books on that and workbooks. One of the big remembrances I have of that was we, they, one. We had to go for a night and work at the emergency room at the hospital to get an idea of just, you know, how to deal with the emergency people and so forth. And that was just an experience we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And another big component of training is what's called the selection process. Do you recall psychological testing, seeing talking to psychiatrists or psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you don't recall that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't, it wasn't a, uh, something that was to me was stressful, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, so you don't remember being concerned about whether you were going to be chosen to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.156168954281662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you don't recall that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't, it wasn't a, uh, something that was to me was stressful, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I mean, so you don't remember being concerned about whether you were going to be chosen to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. At any point during the training, did you begin to have any kind of second thoughts that maybe, eh, maybe this is not such a great idea?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.834776486767483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. At any point during the training, did you begin to have any kind of second thoughts that maybe, eh, maybe this is not such a great idea?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was looking forward to it. I was going to, I felt it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, the whole thing was I felt that here I was basically at the top, you know, clicking on all cylinders, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.816418318630536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was looking forward to it. I was going to, I felt it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, the whole thing was I felt that here I was basically at the top, you know, clicking on all cylinders, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Young, energetic. Emotionally prepared, physically prepared, mentally prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from Peace Corps Washington come out to talk to the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.907131465145039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I said, the whole thing was I felt that here I was basically at the top, you know, clicking on all cylinders, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Young, energetic. Emotionally prepared, physically prepared, mentally prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from Peace Corps Washington come out to talk to the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably did. It's not something I remember too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall any discussions about political sensitivity going into the country? Any things you had to be concerned about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.896812739050043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Young, energetic. Emotionally prepared, physically prepared, mentally prepared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone from Peace Corps Washington come out to talk to the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably did. It's not something I remember too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall any discussions about political sensitivity going into the country? Any things you had to be concerned about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a little bit because at that time we did have some discussions about the Young Pioneers. And some of the influence of the, of the eastern, of Eastern Europe on some of the structures. And the fact that you've just got to be a little bit careful about, um, not careful so much, but just to be, that this is, the newspapers are very slanted, have their own views."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember if during training you were, uh, you did any kind of the peer grading or listing of people you'd like to be assigned with, not assigned with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.996458598944493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably did. It's not something I remember too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you recall any discussions about political sensitivity going into the country? Any things you had to be concerned about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a little bit because at that time we did have some discussions about the Young Pioneers. And some of the influence of the, of the eastern, of Eastern Europe on some of the structures. And the fact that you've just got to be a little bit careful about, um, not careful so much, but just to be, that this is, the newspapers are very slanted, have their own views."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember if during training you were, uh, you did any kind of the peer grading or listing of people you'd like to be assigned with, not assigned with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or any preference for assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.218287332160548, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a little bit because at that time we did have some discussions about the Young Pioneers. And some of the influence of the, of the eastern, of Eastern Europe on some of the structures. And the fact that you've just got to be a little bit careful about, um, not careful so much, but just to be, that this is, the newspapers are very slanted, have their own views."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you remember if during training you were, uh, you did any kind of the peer grading or listing of people you'd like to be assigned with, not assigned with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or any preference for assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Urban or rural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How long was training, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.131430369067274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or any preference for assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Urban or rural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How long was training, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a summer. So we went out of Stanford in the, you know, what, June or something like that. Started went to Berkeley immediately. And by September we were, when the school started, we were in Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any home leave from the end of training before you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.034922632296972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Urban or rural."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How long was training, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a summer. So we went out of Stanford in the, you know, what, June or something like that. Started went to Berkeley immediately. And by September we were, when the school started, we were in Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any home leave from the end of training before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think we had a week, a week off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And big farewells?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9285632816145033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to see the family, my mother and so forth. Had some farewells. Took off a couple of days, a couple of days early, again from Al Lowenstein, they were having a big, um. They were having the National Student Conference or one of the big conferences that he had been involved with at Ohio State. And my father had been to Ohio State and I'd never been in Ohio and so I wanted to do some travel. So I did take off and I, instead of flying to New York, where the plane left for Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I flew to Ohio State and went to the student conference for a day or two there and then took the busses, took a bus from there to see the countryside a little bit into New York City and then spent a couple of days in New York City. Bought a camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we all took off to Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the group sort of divided into cliques or were friendships formed, do you recall particularly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.615510224215436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then we all took off to Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had the group sort of divided into cliques or were friendships formed, do you recall particularly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think that I ever had any sense of cliques."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I never had as much sense of that anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a, did you have a strong group feeling?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.463592869401772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I never had as much sense of that anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a, did you have a strong group feeling?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt there was a strong group feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The, um, there were a couple of people who stand out, who were different or sort of different. One girl, a very, very pretty girl, her father, I think, had been in a diplomatic corps. And so she knew, she knew what was going on. And had a lot of connections and so forth. And she sort of stood off a little bit because she basically knew what was happening. And, uh, but beyond that, everybody was to me was just part of the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes groups come together during the selection process because someone is selected out who they feel shouldn't have been. And, you know, you sort of pull together and say that, but you don't recall any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.959547632668635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt there was a strong group feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The, um, there were a couple of people who stand out, who were different or sort of different. One girl, a very, very pretty girl, her father, I think, had been in a diplomatic corps. And so she knew, she knew what was going on. And had a lot of connections and so forth. And she sort of stood off a little bit because she basically knew what was happening. And, uh, but beyond that, everybody was to me was just part of the group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes groups come together during the selection process because someone is selected out who they feel shouldn't have been. And, you know, you sort of pull together and say that, but you don't recall any of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Was it a charter flight to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.692109235485097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. It was a first class charter flight. And after that, I understood that was the last first class charter flight, that we had free booze."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although we were OK when we got, I don't think anybody was inebriated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got there. It was, I think we, I think it was they stopped in the Azores or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had to refuel."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.027295352450737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When we got there. It was, I think we, I think it was they stopped in the Azores or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had to refuel."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the biggest thing I remember about the arrival was I had bought a very light suit jacket, you know, a seersucker type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they opened the door of the airplane. It was like my clothes just gave up. And when they just melted, when the hot, warm air came in, and I could just feel everything just like, like just giving up and wrinkling on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a reception at the airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.474772613834151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the biggest thing I remember about the arrival was I had bought a very light suit jacket, you know, a seersucker type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they opened the door of the airplane. It was like my clothes just gave up. And when they just melted, when the hot, warm air came in, and I could just feel everything just like, like just giving up and wrinkling on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a reception at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they took us, they put us in a bus right away and took us out to the university. And we spent the first two weeks in Ghana because, you know, Ghana was unique in that the government was sponsoring us, did our pay while we're in country. And so they wanted to do, the government wanted to do an orientation for us along with the Peace Corps. So we spent, I think, two weeks or ten days at the university living in a student dormitory and then doing trips around in the southern part of Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Do you recall your first impressions of being in Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9036661369467085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first impression, obviously, having never gone out of the country before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My first impression was, my God, what am I doing? Um, not what am I doing, that was. Um. The smells, of course. And I think, I think as I remember. I remember thinking at the time, you know, I must be going through some culture shock because I'm sleeping 12 hours a day, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just like reintegrate, integrating all this stuff. But that only happened for a couple of days and then, you know, and I got my sandals on and got my shorts on and was able to basically do what we needed to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you're suddenly thrown into a completely black world. I mean, it's all Africans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.72656534560591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Having grown up in, I've never, being growing up in the islands, in Hawaii. And I just didn't have that sense. I don't, I never grew up with the sense of racial difference, differentiate. I mean, I knew. But and also having never really ran into a lot of, uh, I mean I grew up in San Francisco on what we would call the poor side of town, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But overall, I didn't know that. I just was, I was just living my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really, I didn't really grow up with any kind of sense of racial differences. And so people were people to me. They were black or white. They were just people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you recall if any of the others in the group were having more culture shock than you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.362850384006567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But overall, I didn't know that. I just was, I was just living my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really, I didn't really grow up with any kind of sense of racial differences. And so people were people to me. They were black or white. They were just people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you recall if any of the others in the group were having more culture shock than you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I don't think so. I think, because I think the other reason is because a lot of the other people had traveled in Europe and been out of the country a little bit. And I, this is my first real trip out of anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And while you were at Legon."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.069833760007296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really, I didn't really grow up with any kind of sense of racial differences. And so people were people to me. They were black or white. They were just people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you recall if any of the others in the group were having more culture shock than you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I don't think so. I think, because I think the other reason is because a lot of the other people had traveled in Europe and been out of the country a little bit. And I, this is my first real trip out of anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And while you were at Legon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if some of the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came to join you during the orientation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.855370844452551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think. I don't think so. I think, because I think the other reason is because a lot of the other people had traveled in Europe and been out of the country a little bit. And I, this is my first real trip out of anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And while you were at Legon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if some of the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came to join you during the orientation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't even remember that. You probably you did. You were one of them probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don't remember."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.728189827169501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if some of the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came to join you during the orientation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't even remember that. You probably you did. You were one of them probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you don't remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that at all. I tell you what, you want me to tell you what I do remember?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, of course."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.664431885394444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that at all. I tell you what, you want me to tell you what I do remember?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, of course."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They took us on busses around different places. They took us to, and this is a story I've retold many times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To one of the, one of the suburbs, one of the towns along the coast near Accra. I forget exactly. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It depends which way you're going, but yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3928633599120115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he's saying to us, if he was going to build three statues in Ghana. He would build three statues, right? One of course would be the Kwame Nkrumah, the president that led them to freedom. The second would be to the Aborigines' Rights [Protection] Society, which is a group of Ghanaians who studied in Oxford during the turn of the century and got the parliament to pass a law saying that foreigners couldn't buy land because the ingota, because the land was held in common by the chief. The chief didn't own the land. He was just a caretaker. So you couldn't buy that. The third would be six foot high female anopheles mosquito, which kept the white man out of West Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought that was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the orientation, you were feeling fairly comfortable about being in Ghana?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.43563377766915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during the orientation, you were feeling fairly comfortable about being in Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I felt pretty comfortable. We, of course, we went out to the local, uh. We had a chance to get out to the local high life bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Lido."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Lido, which is where they dance at nighttime especially and the highlife, which is the music. And so we had, we were getting acculturated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's almost a rite of passage, you know, to go to the Lido and dance the highlife. Yeah, right. And at what point did someone come up and say, well, this is your assignment and this is what you're going to be doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4782356346627554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhere along there they said, you're going, you're going, we've decided you're going to Dunkwa, right, which is the town they're going to here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And myself and Don Fontaine, the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any sense of what was going on with the secondary schools? You know, Dunkwa was what they called the GED school, the new government school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.294118067484883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you have any sense of what was going on with the secondary schools? You know, Dunkwa was what they called the GED school, the new government school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave us, during the orientation, they basically said that, you know, the education in Ghana has been a very, has been well established. The British had had very good schools, mostly church schools, I guess, church related schools along the coast. And they were, they had very prestigious. I always felt that it was like in, to get into secondary school was like getting into college here. You had to take the exam and if you did very well and or if you had rich parents and well connected, you would get into the best schools. And then if you couldn't get into the best schools, you go to the second schools. If you couldn't get in there, you go to the third schools. And if you couldn't get anywhere else, you'd go to Dunkwa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had just, the school had just started out and it was brand new and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And how did you get from? Well, let me ask. Do you remember Peace Corps staff then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.771242297205425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave us, during the orientation, they basically said that, you know, the education in Ghana has been a very, has been well established. The British had had very good schools, mostly church schools, I guess, church related schools along the coast. And they were, they had very prestigious. I always felt that it was like in, to get into secondary school was like getting into college here. You had to take the exam and if you did very well and or if you had rich parents and well connected, you would get into the best schools. And then if you couldn't get into the best schools, you go to the second schools. If you couldn't get in there, you go to the third schools. And if you couldn't get anywhere else, you'd go to Dunkwa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had just, the school had just started out and it was brand new and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And how did you get from? Well, let me ask. Do you remember Peace Corps staff then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what role they were going to play in your, in getting you out there and supporting you once you were out there. Do you have any sense of that at the beginning?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1902692191171385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had just, the school had just started out and it was brand new and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And how did you get from? Well, let me ask. Do you remember Peace Corps staff then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what role they were going to play in your, in getting you out there and supporting you once you were out there. Do you have any sense of that at the beginning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have much sense of that. I, you know, there was a doctor there. We knew that Carter was in charge of the Peace Corps there. I had, so, you know, I was just running around on the busses, having a good time. And I didn't have too much sense of those guys, of what they were doing, if that's hat you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, yeah. Yeah. So but you were content that there was a structure within which you would work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.062060764342146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have much sense of that. I, you know, there was a doctor there. We knew that Carter was in charge of the Peace Corps there. I had, so, you know, I was just running around on the busses, having a good time. And I didn't have too much sense of those guys, of what they were doing, if that's hat you mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, yeah. Yeah. So but you were content that there was a structure within which you would work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very good. And they also had a hostel of course in Accra, which we didn't, we didn't get into until. Well, I guess we stayed there a couple of times. But the idea that there was quite an infrastructure that they laid out for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, of course, we were the first white people in, or Europeans as they commonly say, the white people to actually hitchhike around. Because up to that time, the British and everybody else, all the expatriates were in cars. So it was an interesting thing for the Ghanaians to see us hitchhiking around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you got the assignment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5134008492690505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very good. And they also had a hostel of course in Accra, which we didn't, we didn't get into until. Well, I guess we stayed there a couple of times. But the idea that there was quite an infrastructure that they laid out for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, of course, we were the first white people in, or Europeans as they commonly say, the white people to actually hitchhike around. Because up to that time, the British and everybody else, all the expatriates were in cars. So it was an interesting thing for the Ghanaians to see us hitchhiking around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now when you got the assignment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or going on bores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the assignment, it was you and Don Fontaine to go to Dunkwa. Had you known Don particularly in training or just one of the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.460988702801297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or going on bores."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got the assignment, it was you and Don Fontaine to go to Dunkwa. Had you known Don particularly in training or just one of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was just one of the group. And we, they put us together and we went up there. The headmaster sent a taxi for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Dunkwa, which is like, what, three or four hour drive, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, at least."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7344318920014405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was just one of the group. And we, they put us together and we went up there. The headmaster sent a taxi for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Dunkwa, which is like, what, three or four hour drive, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, at least."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least. And so like it's interesting. This taxi came and picked us up and we ended up 4 hours later, 5 hours later, in Dunkwa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember shopping in Accra or your, uh, what was it called, your settling in allowance, mosquito nets and pots and pans and? Don't let me put words in your mouth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0382576577793783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From Dunkwa, which is like, what, three or four hour drive, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, at least."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At least. And so like it's interesting. This taxi came and picked us up and we ended up 4 hours later, 5 hours later, in Dunkwa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember shopping in Accra or your, uh, what was it called, your settling in allowance, mosquito nets and pots and pans and? Don't let me put words in your mouth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure we got all that stuff because I remember we had, when we got to the house, I sprayed, I sprayed the bed very well with all kinds of insect repellent and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about arriving at the campus at the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.63982426886343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure we got all that stuff because I remember we had, when we got to the house, I sprayed, I sprayed the bed very well with all kinds of insect repellent and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talk about arriving at the campus at the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a long trip, of course, on the taxi. And it was going through all these new areas for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all the people along the road who were selling the bread and the bananas and all that kind of stuff. The women and, um, I didn't know necessarily too much about Dunkwa at that time. And so we arrived in Dunkwa. It was sort of like it was late. It was getting on late in the afternoon. And we, so the headmaster was there. So they drove us up to the school and the school was up on a hill. So it was very nice. And you could see, you could see around. And the headmaster greeted us and we got to know him a little bit. And I think he had dinner for us at his house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5100470080431143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what I do remember of him was he was a short man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was not from the tribe. He wasn't from the Denkyira tribe. He was from the coastal tribe. And that being short and not from that area had very strong effect on him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, uh, you had dinner with the headmaster."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.788941120047905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, what I do remember of him was he was a short man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was not from the tribe. He wasn't from the Denkyira tribe. He was from the coastal tribe. And that being short and not from that area had very strong effect on him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you, uh, you had dinner with the headmaster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had dinner with him. And then he showed us to our, we saw the bungalow. They had a cement brick bungalow where the two of us stayed. We had two bedrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been accustomed to taking care of yourself in a house? I mean, you're."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.208569284009759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had dinner with him. And then he showed us to our, we saw the bungalow. They had a cement brick bungalow where the two of us stayed. We had two bedrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been accustomed to taking care of yourself in a house? I mean, you're."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and we have of course, we. I don't know if the first day if he had arranged it, but we have been told in during training that, you know, it's expected that you're going to have a houseboy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not something that you have a servant. It's just, it's more a matter of if you don't have a houseboy, what are you trying to do, take your money and go home or? You know, aren't you helping out the local people? So you're expected to have a houseboy to help out. And because you basically can't get out in the sunshine and work that hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right. Let's stay with the living arrangements, then we'll get to the teaching. So you had a houseboy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4539658711219543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, and we have of course, we. I don't know if the first day if he had arranged it, but we have been told in during training that, you know, it's expected that you're going to have a houseboy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not something that you have a servant. It's just, it's more a matter of if you don't have a houseboy, what are you trying to do, take your money and go home or? You know, aren't you helping out the local people? So you're expected to have a houseboy to help out. And because you basically can't get out in the sunshine and work that hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right. Let's stay with the living arrangements, then we'll get to the teaching. So you had a houseboy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a cement brick bungalow. It was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And water, electricity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6839084828666101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a cement brick bungalow. It was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And water, electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Electricity part of the evening, because we had our own generator they'd turn on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when the generator is off, the electricity went off. But in the evening we had electricity. Running water was fine. And a gas or kerosene refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7598983142962334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Electricity part of the evening, because we had our own generator they'd turn on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And when the generator is off, the electricity went off. But in the evening we had electricity. Running water was fine. And a gas or kerosene refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was a living room and two bedrooms and a courtyard in back. A little courtyard in back of the thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the steward lived back there, the house boy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.938146067032387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And it was a living room and two bedrooms and a courtyard in back. A little courtyard in back of the thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the steward lived back there, the house boy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The steward? Actually, he lived in the little village and he would come up and he didn't live with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lived. He had his own. He had his own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone living behind you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0423845189248744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The steward? Actually, he lived in the little village and he would come up and he didn't live with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lived. He had his own. He had his own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone living behind you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There wasn't a separate house behind it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So how did, did you let the houseboy take care of the whole thing about meals, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1582050210276382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He lived. He had his own. He had his own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone living behind you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There wasn't a separate house behind it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So how did, did you let the houseboy take care of the whole thing about meals, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he took, he took care of the meals. We, yeah. He would do, he would do the shopping, go to the market and do the. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK, well, let's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2868944678084868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There wasn't a separate house behind it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So how did, did you let the houseboy take care of the whole thing about meals, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he took, he took care of the meals. We, yeah. He would do, he would do the shopping, go to the market and do the. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK, well, let's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the houseboy took care of the food. Cleaned the house for us. He did all the shopping, the market. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he an older guy, or is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4298827420094298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he took, he took care of the meals. We, yeah. He would do, he would do the shopping, go to the market and do the. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. OK, well, let's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the houseboy took care of the food. Cleaned the house for us. He did all the shopping, the market. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he an older guy, or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A young boy. Yeah, a young boy. He was, he got a girl pregnant while we were there. So he had come wanted extra chop money. We helped him, paid him a little bit extra to get money to so that his, uh, the lady could have food for their pregnancy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was from the area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.5887586022326996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the houseboy took care of the food. Cleaned the house for us. He did all the shopping, the market. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he an older guy, or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A young boy. Yeah, a young boy. He was, he got a girl pregnant while we were there. So he had come wanted extra chop money. We helped him, paid him a little bit extra to get money to so that his, uh, the lady could have food for their pregnancy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he was from the area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was local."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was he interested in school or had he done school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7268624718922216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was local."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why was he interested in school or had he done school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he wasn't interested in school at all. You know, he just. He was. But I think he was recommended through the school to the people there. There was another although, another Ghanaian teacher there that taught physical ed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe he was the one that recommended the young boy. Somehow he got ahold of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now, let's talk about, uh. What was Don's background? Had he been a teacher or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8076249687691351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he wasn't interested in school at all. You know, he just. He was. But I think he was recommended through the school to the people there. There was another although, another Ghanaian teacher there that taught physical ed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe he was the one that recommended the young boy. Somehow he got ahold of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now, let's talk about, uh. What was Don's background? Had he been a teacher or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he, Don hadn't been a teacher, but he'd been to, um, he was a liberal arts English major. So he taught. I taught science and math and he taught English and history and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And he had not taught before so he was a novice just like you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8973610764101502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe he was the one that recommended the young boy. Somehow he got ahold of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Now, let's talk about, uh. What was Don's background? Had he been a teacher or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he, Don hadn't been a teacher, but he'd been to, um, he was a liberal arts English major. So he taught. I taught science and math and he taught English and history and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And he had not taught before so he was a novice just like you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else? How large was the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1078531807532719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else? How large was the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school was a fairly big school. It was a, we had a three two-story buildings. Three, two. Plus a, um, in the back an eating place, what do you call it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dining room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dining room and the kitchen with the, where the ladies fixed food for the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So it was a boarding school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2309479786147466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school was a fairly big school. It was a, we had a three two-story buildings. Three, two. Plus a, um, in the back an eating place, what do you call it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dining room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dining room and the kitchen with the, where the ladies fixed food for the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So it was a boarding school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a boarding school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it coed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.6885431805414903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was coed. There was a separate, there was a. There was actually was there was two school buildings and the third. The third floor. The ground floor or the ground, the ground floor was where the classes were right. And above that was the, was where the, um, the boy students, the students lived. And there was a, uh, the building you come up to, the central building, was the administration building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where the girls lived, upstairs there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there are more boys and girls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And was it, were there three forms? You remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7650479783794335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's where the girls lived, upstairs there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there are more boys and girls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And was it, were there three forms? You remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, I think it was the second year the school was open, so there two forms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two forms. And then they added on. Who else was on faculty?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8500533093104816, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there are more boys and girls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And was it, were there three forms? You remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, I think it was the second year the school was open, so there two forms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two forms. And then they added on. Who else was on faculty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don, myself, and the, uh, I think the Ghanaian teacher who was teaching physical education, soccer and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9445036770116462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had, I think it was the second year the school was open, so there two forms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two forms. And then they added on. Who else was on faculty?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don, myself, and the, uh, I think the Ghanaian teacher who was teaching physical education, soccer and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was about it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the three of you? There must have been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1660539222366002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was about it, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the three of you? There must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been someone else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the headmaster."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.295615469151778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There must have been someone else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I forgot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the headmaster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the headmaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember getting your teaching assignment and having any sense of what it is you were supposed to be doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5995252705577507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the headmaster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember getting your teaching assignment and having any sense of what it is you were supposed to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had the, we had the books there, and there are books that we that we had to teach against that. Frankly, if I look back on it, I'd say I was not a very good teacher. I was learning a lot about how to teach and how to and how to get the subject across. I had, uh, I wasn't necessarily teaching to the British system. I was trying to teach them to think and trying to interest them in science and math and so forth. So I was, we, I was teaching to the book. We had the books. They had to go through the books. There are textbooks for the form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't stick, I didn't stick enough to that because it was important to get that done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were teaching general science?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.777250300619723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had the, we had the books there, and there are books that we that we had to teach against that. Frankly, if I look back on it, I'd say I was not a very good teacher. I was learning a lot about how to teach and how to and how to get the subject across. I had, uh, I wasn't necessarily teaching to the British system. I was trying to teach them to think and trying to interest them in science and math and so forth. So I was, we, I was teaching to the book. We had the books. They had to go through the books. There are textbooks for the form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't stick, I didn't stick enough to that because it was important to get that done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were teaching general science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just general science. We had general science books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have math also?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9747225562441364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't stick, I didn't stick enough to that because it was important to get that done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were teaching general science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, just general science. We had general science books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have math also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach math also?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.437929081782884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach math also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And math?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Don taught English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6641099775097332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Don taught English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. I remember he was, he was teaching 1984."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George Orwell. Didn't go over big with the local officials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a set book? In other words, it was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7378999750108146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "English. I remember he was, he was teaching 1984."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George Orwell. Didn't go over big with the local officials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a set book? In other words, it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the set of books, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But just to set the context, the students would go to school for five years, at the end of which they would sit for the West African Exams Council set exams."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8198888611231273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "George Orwell. Didn't go over big with the local officials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a set book? In other words, it was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the set of books, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But just to set the context, the students would go to school for five years, at the end of which they would sit for the West African Exams Council set exams."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as of your first year, that was still a couple of years down the road."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9109876234701414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the set of books, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But just to set the context, the students would go to school for five years, at the end of which they would sit for the West African Exams Council set exams."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as of your first year, that was still a couple of years down the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the students didn't particularly pressure you? Or did the students pressure you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0122084705223793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as of your first year, that was still a couple of years down the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the students didn't particularly pressure you? Or did the students pressure you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second year they were getting more interested in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't say, please, sir, that's not on the syllabus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.124676078358199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the students didn't particularly pressure you? Or did the students pressure you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second year they were getting more interested in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't say, please, sir, that's not on the syllabus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't go that far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. Well, how did you take the teaching, do you recall your? I mean, you're suddenly in front of, what, 35, 40 kids and none of whose names you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.388488985627406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't go that far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. Well, how did you take the teaching, do you recall your? I mean, you're suddenly in front of, what, 35, 40 kids and none of whose names you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had done a lot of standing in front of people, doing things with them during schools and so forth, so that being in front of the classroom didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And teaching didn't bother me. But it was, it was a matter of just being able to get the things across to the students that I thought was good. And writing the, writing the exams and grading the exams and trying to keep up with all that stuff. Which I think overall, I mean, like I said before, I don't, I think I could have done a much better job with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Two problems that classically the Peace Corps teachers had in this situation. One is adjusting to the students' language and they're adjusting to your language. I mean, American English and Ghanaian English are two different things."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5427655395860067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had done a lot of standing in front of people, doing things with them during schools and so forth, so that being in front of the classroom didn't bother me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And teaching didn't bother me. But it was, it was a matter of just being able to get the things across to the students that I thought was good. And writing the, writing the exams and grading the exams and trying to keep up with all that stuff. Which I think overall, I mean, like I said before, I don't, I think I could have done a much better job with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Two problems that classically the Peace Corps teachers had in this situation. One is adjusting to the students' language and they're adjusting to your language. I mean, American English and Ghanaian English are two different things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that particularly?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.612686988070935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the way they pronounce water is water, right? And so they thought that was so funny that I was going, I was doing wader instead of water. So I quickly learned to speak very, enunciate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And speak slowly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And such, so much so that when I ended up getting out of the Peace Corps years later, people thought. I came back here. I was still doing the same thing. People thought I was speaking down to them. I wasn't. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you, do you remember how you addressed the students? Did you learn their names?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.902985542301039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And speak slowly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And such, so much so that when I ended up getting out of the Peace Corps years later, people thought. I came back here. I was still doing the same thing. People thought I was speaking down to them. I wasn't. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you, do you remember how you addressed the students? Did you learn their names?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I tried to learn their names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First name, last name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1144283803344877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And such, so much so that when I ended up getting out of the Peace Corps years later, people thought. I came back here. I was still doing the same thing. People thought I was speaking down to them. I wasn't. I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How did you, do you remember how you addressed the students? Did you learn their names?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I tried to learn their names."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First name, last name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kofi, first name usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And that went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9004504531337276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the students were organized themselves or they, they were. They would organize themselves. There were obviously some students who were very bright and other students that weren't. So there was obviously a very mixture of academic talent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the ones who were very bright could catch on very quickly and they would help some of the other kids. They all slept upstairs on wooden, on wooden slats, you know, and they wash their own clothes themselves. They were. They ironed their own clothes, white shirts, khaki shorts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "White shirts were always pure white, always well ironed. So they did a lot of good stuff to keep themselves there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the, like form one? Was it split to 1A and 1B?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2227227257041418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the ones who were very bright could catch on very quickly and they would help some of the other kids. They all slept upstairs on wooden, on wooden slats, you know, and they wash their own clothes themselves. They were. They ironed their own clothes, white shirts, khaki shorts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "White shirts were always pure white, always well ironed. So they did a lot of good stuff to keep themselves there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was the, like form one? Was it split to 1A and 1B?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. Because sometimes they would put the better kids in A and the rest in B. The other difficulty that American teachers often have going into the situation is traditionally the Ghanaian students are fantastic with rote learning. And the American teacher comes in and wants to have them think and discuss. And do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.18617657846933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, in science and math, it's a little bit easier because you're not, you're not talking about, you know, interpreting a book or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you're just trying to get across the concepts of the math and concepts of the science. What is, you know, oxygen? And I tried to do a lot of, I tried to set up a lot of experiments. I sent off for some of the, some equipment that to be imported that we could use, like beakers and Bunsen burners and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we could show the students to some of the things. And electrolysis of water and that kind of stuff. So we tried to, tried to do what I thought was, so they could actually see it happening and physically touch it and so forth. Not everybody, they couldn't. It was only like in the front of the room. Um. As we went through the syllabus I tried to do, to show them the, um, what was the, how this actually works, so they can see it. Um. The rote learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, if you gave them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5401961982992556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you're just trying to get across the concepts of the math and concepts of the science. What is, you know, oxygen? And I tried to do a lot of, I tried to set up a lot of experiments. I sent off for some of the, some equipment that to be imported that we could use, like beakers and Bunsen burners and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we could show the students to some of the things. And electrolysis of water and that kind of stuff. So we tried to, tried to do what I thought was, so they could actually see it happening and physically touch it and so forth. Not everybody, they couldn't. It was only like in the front of the room. Um. As we went through the syllabus I tried to do, to show them the, um, what was the, how this actually works, so they can see it. Um. The rote learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, if you gave them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have a, I had a sense. Yes, it was much easier for them to learn by rote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, they could memorize long passages and not necessarily understand that the content."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9335513314436175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we could show the students to some of the things. And electrolysis of water and that kind of stuff. So we tried to, tried to do what I thought was, so they could actually see it happening and physically touch it and so forth. Not everybody, they couldn't. It was only like in the front of the room. Um. As we went through the syllabus I tried to do, to show them the, um, what was the, how this actually works, so they can see it. Um. The rote learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, if you gave them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have a, I had a sense. Yes, it was much easier for them to learn by rote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, they could memorize long passages and not necessarily understand that the content."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, it was more of a sense that the kids. The brighter kids caught on very, very quickly, and a lot of kids just weren't going to get it. And so there was a lot of, um, tried to help encourage a lot of help between the students too, outside the classroom, so that they would be working with each other a lot to help each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a point in the first semester or two where you had a sense that you were actually teaching, you know, you were achieving something? Although obviously you were somewhat dissatisfied."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8562362116587865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, it was more of a sense that the kids. The brighter kids caught on very, very quickly, and a lot of kids just weren't going to get it. And so there was a lot of, um, tried to help encourage a lot of help between the students too, outside the classroom, so that they would be working with each other a lot to help each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a point in the first semester or two where you had a sense that you were actually teaching, you know, you were achieving something? Although obviously you were somewhat dissatisfied."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I thought I was, I thought I was doing an OK job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I thought, I thought that I just hadn't any skills in doing it yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you test? Did you do regular testing of the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.995353347726896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I thought, I thought that I just hadn't any skills in doing it yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you test? Did you do regular testing of the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. We did exams every so often. And I, you know, I created the exams. I tried out. And what I found out was that very, it was very different in their writing. Of course, their command of English. One of the big issues was between the different students was their level of English understanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you know, many of the students didn't speak much English at all. So they were trying to pick up English along the way as they were learning the subjects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You mentioned these, I mean, Dunkwa was not a prestige secondary school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.661503719696551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we did. We did exams every so often. And I, you know, I created the exams. I tried out. And what I found out was that very, it was very different in their writing. Of course, their command of English. One of the big issues was between the different students was their level of English understanding."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you know, many of the students didn't speak much English at all. So they were trying to pick up English along the way as they were learning the subjects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. You mentioned these, I mean, Dunkwa was not a prestige secondary school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But even so. Even so, um. You would have one student. The whole village would get together and pull their money to send one student, the best student from their village, to school. And that's all they could afford. And so there was a lot of, although the kids had a lot of fun, they were, you know, so forth. It was a, um, it was, they were highly motivated to try to learn. They were not there to screw around. They knew that this was their passport to, you know, to success or not. And they were, they were very, uh, they felt not privileged so much, but they felt that it was good to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, um, how did Don's experience match up to yours as you settled into becoming teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.224078666292037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But even so. Even so, um. You would have one student. The whole village would get together and pull their money to send one student, the best student from their village, to school. And that's all they could afford. And so there was a lot of, although the kids had a lot of fun, they were, you know, so forth. It was a, um, it was, they were highly motivated to try to learn. They were not there to screw around. They knew that this was their passport to, you know, to success or not. And they were, they were very, uh, they felt not privileged so much, but they felt that it was good to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did, um, how did Don's experience match up to yours as you settled into becoming teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don was, Don was more in. Actually, Don got more involved with the students and teaching and took, went on the lorry trips, a couple of lorry trips with them, to northern Ghana and so forth. And I was teaching but when I, when I wasn't at the school doing teaching, I was taking off going on my own trips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was more involved with the life of this a little more than I, more than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel guilty about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.13786518476893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don was, Don was more in. Actually, Don got more involved with the students and teaching and took, went on the lorry trips, a couple of lorry trips with them, to northern Ghana and so forth. And I was teaching but when I, when I wasn't at the school doing teaching, I was taking off going on my own trips."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was more involved with the life of this a little more than I, more than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel guilty about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I didn't, because at the time I was involved with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your own life."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.153183538632145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was more involved with the life of this a little more than I, more than I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel guilty about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the time I didn't, because at the time I was involved with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your own life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My own life. Looking back on it, I say, I said it would have been nicer for me to have been less involved with myself and more involved with the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was there a point in the first half year where you woke up one day and said, oh my God, I'm in the Peace Corps, I'm in the middle of Africa and I'm doing it. I mean, is there any sense of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.831090788434746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My own life. Looking back on it, I say, I said it would have been nicer for me to have been less involved with myself and more involved with the students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Was there a point in the first half year where you woke up one day and said, oh my God, I'm in the Peace Corps, I'm in the middle of Africa and I'm doing it. I mean, is there any sense of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't any sense of that. It was just a matter of day to day, of trying, getting stuff done. And, you know. Um. You know, then on weekends, of course, we'd sometimes get on and take the lorry up to Kumasi. We'd do our shopping for European type foods, like a bottle of liqueur every so often, and something like that. We'd go shopping up to Kumasi and there were a lot of Peace Corps volunteers up there. And there were the expatriate. There were places to stay with Peace Corps volunteers or other places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was a socializing with other volunteers. We didn't really get to meet, besides Don and I when we were in Dunkwa, we were the only Peace Corps people around there besides you. Some people would drive through going to their school like yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I was further out by 30 miles or so, and I would stop by."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.902581220289811, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was a socializing with other volunteers. We didn't really get to meet, besides Don and I when we were in Dunkwa, we were the only Peace Corps people around there besides you. Some people would drive through going to their school like yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I was further out by 30 miles or so, and I would stop by."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the, um. But my remembrance is there was teaching, was the students during the breaks when school was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have all their, all their bags and packed up and their suitcases and their trunks waiting, waiting out in front for the lorries to come pick them up to take them back to their homes for the time. That was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during your first year there, you tended to, you would often on a weekend would."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.113979133655345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the, um. But my remembrance is there was teaching, was the students during the breaks when school was over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have all their, all their bags and packed up and their suitcases and their trunks waiting, waiting out in front for the lorries to come pick them up to take them back to their homes for the time. That was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during your first year there, you tended to, you would often on a weekend would."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To take off and go up to Kumasi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.459976815172606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have all their, all their bags and packed up and their suitcases and their trunks waiting, waiting out in front for the lorries to come pick them up to take them back to their homes for the time. That was a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during your first year there, you tended to, you would often on a weekend would."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Take off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To take off and go up to Kumasi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or somewhere else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Down to Takoradi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.301751461142121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to Takoradi so much, but Kumasi, yeah. And then at the, it was unique there because at the end of the first semester."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Ghanaians, when we happened to be there, they were changing. They changed semester, when semester starts and stops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they actually had a month and a half of break in December. So I was there, taught for a couple of three or four, three months or so, and then they had a whole month and a half off or two months almost before they started up again. So. I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.113057179046802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Ghanaians, when we happened to be there, they were changing. They changed semester, when semester starts and stops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they actually had a month and a half of break in December. So I was there, taught for a couple of three or four, three months or so, and then they had a whole month and a half off or two months almost before they started up again. So. I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah I remember what I did. I went to Timbuktu. I took the lorry up to northern Ghana and Mali and up to Mopti. And went, floated down the river on the barges and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Travel alone or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6811746433853365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they actually had a month and a half of break in December. So I was there, taught for a couple of three or four, three months or so, and then they had a whole month and a half off or two months almost before they started up again. So. I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah I remember what I did. I went to Timbuktu. I took the lorry up to northern Ghana and Mali and up to Mopti. And went, floated down the river on the barges and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Travel alone or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly alone. But there were Peace Corps volunteers pretty much everywhere. So like in Mopti there were Peace Corps volunteers. And even in Ouagadougou, which is up in, which is a way out of the way kind of place up there, there wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer, but there was an American guy that was up there and we could stay with him. And we found somebody to stay with all this. I didn't know where I was going to stay every night. You know, you don't know where you're going to stay the next night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were footloose and fancy loose."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.312416270428152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah I remember what I did. I went to Timbuktu. I took the lorry up to northern Ghana and Mali and up to Mopti. And went, floated down the river on the barges and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Travel alone or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly alone. But there were Peace Corps volunteers pretty much everywhere. So like in Mopti there were Peace Corps volunteers. And even in Ouagadougou, which is up in, which is a way out of the way kind of place up there, there wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer, but there was an American guy that was up there and we could stay with him. And we found somebody to stay with all this. I didn't know where I was going to stay every night. You know, you don't know where you're going to stay the next night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were footloose and fancy loose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was footloose and I was going to going to experiment and explore and see how far I could go, what things I could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you enjoyed that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.01379585603128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly alone. But there were Peace Corps volunteers pretty much everywhere. So like in Mopti there were Peace Corps volunteers. And even in Ouagadougou, which is up in, which is a way out of the way kind of place up there, there wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer, but there was an American guy that was up there and we could stay with him. And we found somebody to stay with all this. I didn't know where I was going to stay every night. You know, you don't know where you're going to stay the next night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were footloose and fancy loose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was footloose and I was going to going to experiment and explore and see how far I could go, what things I could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you enjoyed that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed it, yeah. I took a lot of notes and took photographs and that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, so there was this couple weeks of teaching. Then there was the big break."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.348662062256978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was footloose and I was going to going to experiment and explore and see how far I could go, what things I could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you enjoyed that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoyed it, yeah. I took a lot of notes and took photographs and that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, so there was this couple weeks of teaching. Then there was the big break."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then a couple of months of teaching, then a big break. Then I came back and taught the rest of the year. Then the summertime. Then we had summer break. Then the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's stay within the first year. Do you recall what was your contact with Peace Corps during that time, the Peace Corps staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.134150694144417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then a couple of months of teaching, then a big break. Then I came back and taught the rest of the year. Then the summertime. Then we had summer break. Then the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's stay within the first year. Do you recall what was your contact with Peace Corps during that time, the Peace Corps staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The major contact with the Peace Corps staff was only really when I would go to Accra occasionally, and they had a big three-story building, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Peace Corps volunteers, like a youth hostel set up for there. And it was all nice, a nice place to stay and so forth. Beyond that, the Peace Corps staff had very little to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have visitors that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.593500771271573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The major contact with the Peace Corps staff was only really when I would go to Accra occasionally, and they had a big three-story building, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the Peace Corps volunteers, like a youth hostel set up for there. And it was all nice, a nice place to stay and so forth. Beyond that, the Peace Corps staff had very little to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have visitors that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not up there. The biggest thing I remember is we had a big trunk of, a whole trunk of books arrived, one for each of us, with uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's supposed to be a book locker."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3376552731747813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not up there. The biggest thing I remember is we had a big trunk of, a whole trunk of books arrived, one for each of us, with uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's supposed to be a book locker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A kind of foot locker, which we were supposed to give out to people or read or do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did take a couple of trips up to. The kids loved, it was great, Shakespeare. Of course, as you said, they could, they learned how to memorize. And so there was a Shakespeare troupe that was coming through Kumasi. And so we took the lorry up and went for an afternoon and they saw Shakespeare. And it was a, and it was a great experience for them because, you know, they would mouth all the words, tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow, and you'd hear this echo out in the audience, these kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back to the school setting. It's a boarding school setting and very often the faculty have additional duties like a house master or a sports master. Do you recall any activities like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6855937664968794, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so whenever the new student would come up to join the school, it was his, it was his decision whether the student got in school or not. He was the arbitrator of whether he accepted the student or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He only accepted students that were shorter than him. Because he didn't want the kid to turn around and beat him up. So he told us, he said, listen, Don, the kids are not, the boys are not being messing up the toilets because they're being nasty or anything. They just don't know how to use them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so if you teach all the kids to sit on the toilets, it would be, we're going to not have this problem of cleaning the toilets all the time. So Don was in there. And so I remember this one day with Don. Don was giving the talk to the, we had 15 Ghanaian students around us. He was standing on the toilet in the stall and I was in the back listening to this thing. And he was saying, listen, this is a European instrument, the toilet. In fact, it's the WC, the English word. It flushes things over a little ledge. And he says, if you use the European instrument toilet in the European way, if we all sit on it, then we won't get messy. And obviously, if someone messes up the toilet seat, the next person's got to stand on it. He's not going to sit on it, and so forth and so on.\n\nAnd so if, so one of the Ghanaian students, I guess he'd been sort of looking through the windows at us. He said if us Ghanaians use that European instrument in the European way, our long African penises are going to dangle in the water. And that was a kick. That was such a kick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Other than the housemaster responsibilities, did you do any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8728819627743105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He only accepted students that were shorter than him. Because he didn't want the kid to turn around and beat him up. So he told us, he said, listen, Don, the kids are not, the boys are not being messing up the toilets because they're being nasty or anything. They just don't know how to use them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so if you teach all the kids to sit on the toilets, it would be, we're going to not have this problem of cleaning the toilets all the time. So Don was in there. And so I remember this one day with Don. Don was giving the talk to the, we had 15 Ghanaian students around us. He was standing on the toilet in the stall and I was in the back listening to this thing. And he was saying, listen, this is a European instrument, the toilet. In fact, it's the WC, the English word. It flushes things over a little ledge. And he says, if you use the European instrument toilet in the European way, if we all sit on it, then we won't get messy. And obviously, if someone messes up the toilet seat, the next person's got to stand on it. He's not going to sit on it, and so forth and so on.\n\nAnd so if, so one of the Ghanaian students, I guess he'd been sort of looking through the windows at us. He said if us Ghanaians use that European instrument in the European way, our long African penises are going to dangle in the water. And that was a kick. That was such a kick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Other than the housemaster responsibilities, did you do any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's about it. We had, we had that. We."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved in the sports at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.080979958638123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so if you teach all the kids to sit on the toilets, it would be, we're going to not have this problem of cleaning the toilets all the time. So Don was in there. And so I remember this one day with Don. Don was giving the talk to the, we had 15 Ghanaian students around us. He was standing on the toilet in the stall and I was in the back listening to this thing. And he was saying, listen, this is a European instrument, the toilet. In fact, it's the WC, the English word. It flushes things over a little ledge. And he says, if you use the European instrument toilet in the European way, if we all sit on it, then we won't get messy. And obviously, if someone messes up the toilet seat, the next person's got to stand on it. He's not going to sit on it, and so forth and so on.\n\nAnd so if, so one of the Ghanaian students, I guess he'd been sort of looking through the windows at us. He said if us Ghanaians use that European instrument in the European way, our long African penises are going to dangle in the water. And that was a kick. That was such a kick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Other than the housemaster responsibilities, did you do any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's about it. We had, we had that. We."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved in the sports at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to watch the students. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't coach or anything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3121999540423586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's about it. We had, we had that. We."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get involved in the sports at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to watch the students. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't coach or anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't coaching anything because you had the, we had an athletic coach, the Ghanaian guy. And he was, he was a good, athletic young man and was teaching the kids to do soccer and so forth. He did an excellent job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But on a typical school day, I mean, you were only teaching maybe 2 hours, 3 hours. How did you, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.569111060047065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just to watch the students. We had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't coach or anything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't coaching anything because you had the, we had an athletic coach, the Ghanaian guy. And he was, he was a good, athletic young man and was teaching the kids to do soccer and so forth. He did an excellent job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But on a typical school day, I mean, you were only teaching maybe 2 hours, 3 hours. How did you, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was preparing for the, preparing for the next class. I was grading papers in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the little blue books."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9495198272185985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was preparing for the, preparing for the next class. I was grading papers in the evening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the little blue books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I was setting up the, setting up the, doing the laboratories, the science lab kind of thing. The blackboards were exactly that, of course, they were boards painted black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so cleaning up the place a little bit. The, um. Teach. Do that. Have lunch. Go back teach again. Come back in the afternoon. Prepare. Read a little bit. Evening time, we would have dinner. And usually Don and I would sit and talk. Or we'd, we would read Shakespeare together, to each other, take parts. And I remember we went through a couple of books, Shakespeare books like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were both you and Don at that time playing guitar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0550220302428872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I was setting up the, setting up the, doing the laboratories, the science lab kind of thing. The blackboards were exactly that, of course, they were boards painted black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so cleaning up the place a little bit. The, um. Teach. Do that. Have lunch. Go back teach again. Come back in the afternoon. Prepare. Read a little bit. Evening time, we would have dinner. And usually Don and I would sit and talk. Or we'd, we would read Shakespeare together, to each other, take parts. And I remember we went through a couple of books, Shakespeare books like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were both you and Don at that time playing guitar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don played the guitar and I had a banjo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1722467002698747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so cleaning up the place a little bit. The, um. Teach. Do that. Have lunch. Go back teach again. Come back in the afternoon. Prepare. Read a little bit. Evening time, we would have dinner. And usually Don and I would sit and talk. Or we'd, we would read Shakespeare together, to each other, take parts. And I remember we went through a couple of books, Shakespeare books like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were both you and Don at that time playing guitar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don played the guitar and I had a banjo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a banjo and we didn't, we did. So I don't remember too much of us singing that much, but I did. I did do. I had the banjo and I was into playing that and the Ghanaians sometimes liked, you know, we'd play a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ever try to perform for the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.302496333633194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don played the guitar and I had a banjo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a banjo and we didn't, we did. So I don't remember too much of us singing that much, but I did. I did do. I had the banjo and I was into playing that and the Ghanaians sometimes liked, you know, we'd play a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You ever try to perform for the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Occasionally I guess, but not that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, formally."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9852100802212984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During, I forget what year it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I ran the, uh, I ran the stage and the lights and, you know, and created the lighting effects and all that, all the scientific science kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Don did the play and so and we did it downtown, ended up doing it downtown. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you went into town to do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.205788978023665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I ran the, uh, I ran the stage and the lights and, you know, and created the lighting effects and all that, all the scientific science kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Don did the play and so and we did it downtown, ended up doing it downtown. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you went into town to do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah. The play was actually done on a stage and we set up, or in a room, we set up a curtain and put lights on it and dimmed the lights and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did during that first year, did you, uh, you don't, there weren't that many other faculty members. Did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.450876642248516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Don did the play and so and we did it downtown, ended up doing it downtown. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you went into town to do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah. The play was actually done on a stage and we set up, or in a room, we set up a curtain and put lights on it and dimmed the lights and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did during that first year, did you, uh, you don't, there weren't that many other faculty members. Did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There I think there was a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a woman."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0257736324055755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There I think there was a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been a woman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A woman. A teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I frankly I don't, unfortunately I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall particularly getting to know Ghanaians, I mean, having any Ghanaian friends, personal friends, you know, rather than just someone you work with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.544271100693519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, um, in the, it was a really wasn't a village but at the bottom of the hill before you get to the main road was a small village and there was living a Ghanaian but he had actually studied in the United States and studied anthropology and we got to know him. But that's kind of, he was more, he had a little bit of more American. We did get to know, I think it was more in the second year than the first year, we got to know. Dunkwa was on the railroad tracks, and so it was, it had a lot of ministry type, little small ministry type people there, young men who ran the ministry offices in town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were all, so we'd get together with them on a Sunday afternoon and drink palm wine downtown at someone's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, drink palm wine. And they called it Sherwood Forest. And we would have. And they would, and if anybody spilled the palm wine, they would have a trial. And someone had to be a defendant, and someone had to be the prosecutor. And they had. And Don would play the guitar. We'd sing and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is all young men."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7158567785483545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were all, so we'd get together with them on a Sunday afternoon and drink palm wine downtown at someone's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, drink palm wine. And they called it Sherwood Forest. And we would have. And they would, and if anybody spilled the palm wine, they would have a trial. And someone had to be a defendant, and someone had to be the prosecutor. And they had. And Don would play the guitar. We'd sing and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is all young men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All young men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was, the exchanges were all in English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0072305908004378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All young men."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was, the exchanges were all in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All in English, yes, because they were all young bureaucrats basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they spoke English. Dunkwa was also had a fairly strong expatriate. They had a, they had a big alluvial gold mining operation there. So they had, they had a fairly strong, um. They had a hospital, a Ghanaian doctor, and we got to know him. He invited us up. But they also had a bunch of English people there who worked with, who worked the gold mine or the alluvial boat in the middle of the river. Got the boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have their own club?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1191451008893754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All in English, yes, because they were all young bureaucrats basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they spoke English. Dunkwa was also had a fairly strong expatriate. They had a, they had a big alluvial gold mining operation there. So they had, they had a fairly strong, um. They had a hospital, a Ghanaian doctor, and we got to know him. He invited us up. But they also had a bunch of English people there who worked with, who worked the gold mine or the alluvial boat in the middle of the river. Got the boat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have their own club?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had their own club. So every so often we'd, maybe once a month or twice a month, we'd go out there and they'd have, they'd have a movie show and a swimming pool and a club and that kind of stuff out there. That was, you know, of course, that was not Ghanaian. That was basic expatriate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Do you recall any sense of, you know, how did the British people react to you, I mean you're Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7057538498542526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And being in the Peace Corps and they're very helpful. They were helpful as far as I could tell. We were always friendly with them. They, you know, they didn't know quite what we're doing there if we weren't making a lot of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the people I run into mostly were, you know, they were there because they weren't necessarily they had, they felt this was. I'm talking about the expatriates there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except the guys who ran the, a couple of guys that ran the place, but the rest of them were technicians and mechanics and that sort of thing that felt it was an opportunity for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you and Don get around when you decided to go to in town or any place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.895282055393614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the people I run into mostly were, you know, they were there because they weren't necessarily they had, they felt this was. I'm talking about the expatriates there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except the guys who ran the, a couple of guys that ran the place, but the rest of them were technicians and mechanics and that sort of thing that felt it was an opportunity for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you and Don get around when you decided to go to in town or any place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to the town, we'd walk. Generally walk. Occasionally the lorry would go into town. We'd catch the lorry into town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school lorry?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.339854389374832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to the town, we'd walk. Generally walk. Occasionally the lorry would go into town. We'd catch the lorry into town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The school lorry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "School lorry. But overall we just generally, we didn't have our own cars or anything like that, so we'd walk. If we go to Kumasi, we generally would hitchhike. We'd get on the road and hitchhike. And usually what that meant was a lorry would be coming by and he would pick us up. The lorry being the transportation of all the people, a lorry, a truck with right across the back people would sit on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, there they'd always want to put us up front in the front seat and we'd always want to say, no, no, no, we don't have to do that. You have to end up in the front seat anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So coming to the end of the first year, I can't remember. There's usually a mid service conference where all the volunteers are called together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.59983821041648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "School lorry. But overall we just generally, we didn't have our own cars or anything like that, so we'd walk. If we go to Kumasi, we generally would hitchhike. We'd get on the road and hitchhike. And usually what that meant was a lorry would be coming by and he would pick us up. The lorry being the transportation of all the people, a lorry, a truck with right across the back people would sit on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, there they'd always want to put us up front in the front seat and we'd always want to say, no, no, no, we don't have to do that. You have to end up in the front seat anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So coming to the end of the first year, I can't remember. There's usually a mid service conference where all the volunteers are called together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall that at all. It may not have happened. But by the end of the first year, had you had much contact with the other people you were trained with or the other Peace Corps in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2096768029833083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You don't recall that at all. It may not have happened. But by the end of the first year, had you had much contact with the other people you were trained with or the other Peace Corps in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I'd go to Accra and we'd meet people there and I'd go to Kumasi and there were people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really. I got to know a couple of people a little bit, but I was not. I was not that involved with, you know, being part of a Peace Corps community per se."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, did you have a sense that other people were having a better experience or worse experience than you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5663075588703426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, because I'd go to Accra and we'd meet people there and I'd go to Kumasi and there were people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't really. I got to know a couple of people a little bit, but I was not. I was not that involved with, you know, being part of a Peace Corps community per se."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, did you have a sense that other people were having a better experience or worse experience than you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought people were about the same. I thought that they were all in fairly. They were, the government was taking care of them, that they were. There were a couple of people, I think, who had some problem. One lady, one girl left early. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the issues with Peace Corps was at times staff would express in different ways is that it wasn't enough just to be teaching, that you really should be involved in the larger community, get to know Ghana better. Do you recall that at all? Again, don't let me put words in your mouth. You know, being encouraged to do projects, to do more than just be on the compound."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.402848838111534, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought people were about the same. I thought that they were all in fairly. They were, the government was taking care of them, that they were. There were a couple of people, I think, who had some problem. One lady, one girl left early. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the issues with Peace Corps was at times staff would express in different ways is that it wasn't enough just to be teaching, that you really should be involved in the larger community, get to know Ghana better. Do you recall that at all? Again, don't let me put words in your mouth. You know, being encouraged to do projects, to do more than just be on the compound."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don and I. Don and I had talked about that and we talked about it more in the sense that there is a sense of wanting to leave something behind and say I've been there kind of thing. And how important, was that really important or was it important to do our, to do our job to teach? And so we didn't get involved with any projects."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, if I look back on it in truthfulness, I would say that I was there to teach. And to travel and get to know the land. That's what I was doing. I was doing my teaching, doing what I needed to do. I wasn't, I didn't go out of my way particularly to do too much in the community. And when I did have extra time, I used it to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt it was yours to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.435615849520412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, if I look back on it in truthfulness, I would say that I was there to teach. And to travel and get to know the land. That's what I was doing. I was doing my teaching, doing what I needed to do. I wasn't, I didn't go out of my way particularly to do too much in the community. And when I did have extra time, I used it to travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You felt it was yours to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I look back on that and I say, that's probably not necessarily the best thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your recollection is that it was pretty much an individual thing you were doing. You were not necessarily constantly aware of being part of a bigger Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.488414629037544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your recollection is that it was pretty much an individual thing you were doing. You were not necessarily constantly aware of being part of a bigger Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except that I felt that, you know, that it was a, what do you call it? It was, there was a whole infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, you know, if I needed help, that was going to be fixed. It was, there was an infrastructure there that if I needed it, it was available. And the other thing is, by that time, in the second or third year, there was, you know, you could travel just about anywhere in West Africa and find a Peace Corps volunteer within a couple of, within an hour's walk somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the first year, how was your health?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.987127365597272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Except that I felt that, you know, that it was a, what do you call it? It was, there was a whole infrastructure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, you know, if I needed help, that was going to be fixed. It was, there was an infrastructure there that if I needed it, it was available. And the other thing is, by that time, in the second or third year, there was, you know, you could travel just about anywhere in West Africa and find a Peace Corps volunteer within a couple of, within an hour's walk somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through the first year, how was your health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. I had no problem at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And there's a long break between first and second year in the school pattern. Almost two months, at least two months. What did you do during the long vacation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.823614031601569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fine. I had no problem at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And there's a long break between first and second year in the school pattern. Almost two months, at least two months. What did you do during the long vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I had met, when we were going at the university, during our introduction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had met a couple of the, a couple of professors there who were from South Africa, and they had left South Africa because of the apartheid. This is white people, these were white guys who didn't, who left and wanted to teach. So they were teaching in Ghana. And so I decided that I got the name, but I got to know them a little bit and got the names of some people that they knew in South Africa. And I decided to take off for the summer. And I flew to actually Rhodesia and hitchhiked from Rhodesia down to Cape Town and back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were aware that that was against Peace Corps policy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1373489240017434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, I had met, when we were going at the university, during our introduction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had met a couple of the, a couple of professors there who were from South Africa, and they had left South Africa because of the apartheid. This is white people, these were white guys who didn't, who left and wanted to teach. So they were teaching in Ghana. And so I decided that I got the name, but I got to know them a little bit and got the names of some people that they knew in South Africa. And I decided to take off for the summer. And I flew to actually Rhodesia and hitchhiked from Rhodesia down to Cape Town and back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were aware that that was against Peace Corps policy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was through the Peace Corps that I did this with Peace Corps. They knew I was doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leaving to South Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.7621591654342508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was through the Peace Corps that I did this with Peace Corps. They knew I was doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Leaving to South Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, they gave me a second passport. I got a, I got a, I have, I got two passports, one for the Ghanaian and one for, one anyway. So they gave me, I got a second passport so that I wouldn't get a South African visa on my passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, related to that, now that during the first year and even into the second, there was a certain amount of political tension about the Peace Corps in Ghana that, you know, with times there were accusations that Peace Corps were spies. And Ghana was moving sort of between east and west."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8468435171491675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, they gave me a second passport. I got a, I got a, I have, I got two passports, one for the Ghanaian and one for, one anyway. So they gave me, I got a second passport so that I wouldn't get a South African visa on my passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, related to that, now that during the first year and even into the second, there was a certain amount of political tension about the Peace Corps in Ghana that, you know, with times there were accusations that Peace Corps were spies. And Ghana was moving sort of between east and west."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We saw that. We saw it because there was a young, all the students who had the Young Pioneer leader who was not from the school, who would come out and organize the students and have Young Pioneer meetings and so forth, bandanas and sort of like a Boy Scouts kind of thing, which was a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that affect you directly, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1616509151566081, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn't affect me, except for the students looked at this and said, you know, to some extent they liked it. They like the idea of it. To some extent they had no choice. They had to do it. They look on it like here's a little bit of propaganda. They didn't, they had to put up with to do this. It didn't affect me that much except that to go to South Africa, I had to get, I had to get the visa through the post. So when I came back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, I remember that they got me into the downtown and a bunch of local, what looked like workers, but they were people who got me into and say, well, would you ever go to South Africa? What would you do to go to South Africa? They knew I'd been there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they had to, I had to discuss. I could never tell them exactly. I could never say that I'd been to South Africa, but they knew I'd been there. And so we had, I said, well, I had to explain why I went there in order to see the apartheid people that were fighting the apartheid down there and understand what these people were doing and so forth. Not that they understood. But I remember I got a grilling from the local, some local people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who are friends of yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2907232390628978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, I remember that they got me into the downtown and a bunch of local, what looked like workers, but they were people who got me into and say, well, would you ever go to South Africa? What would you do to go to South Africa? They knew I'd been there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they had to, I had to discuss. I could never tell them exactly. I could never say that I'd been to South Africa, but they knew I'd been there. And so we had, I said, well, I had to explain why I went there in order to see the apartheid people that were fighting the apartheid down there and understand what these people were doing and so forth. Not that they understood. But I remember I got a grilling from the local, some local people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who are friends of yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was not a, it was not unreasonable and they weren't being nasty to me, but they were just wanted to know what I was doing. Did anyone at any point, a student or faculty or other friends ever say, well, are you a spy or?\n\nYeah, in fact at this meeting they probably asked me if I'd been a spy or what. They probably did. None of the students did. But just that that one meeting was, and they, you know, and I said, no, I'm not a spy. I'm just me trying to learn about the life and people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, OK, you did the South Africa trip."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4341369322921085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they had to, I had to discuss. I could never tell them exactly. I could never say that I'd been to South Africa, but they knew I'd been there. And so we had, I said, well, I had to explain why I went there in order to see the apartheid people that were fighting the apartheid down there and understand what these people were doing and so forth. Not that they understood. But I remember I got a grilling from the local, some local people there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who are friends of yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was not a, it was not unreasonable and they weren't being nasty to me, but they were just wanted to know what I was doing. Did anyone at any point, a student or faculty or other friends ever say, well, are you a spy or?\n\nYeah, in fact at this meeting they probably asked me if I'd been a spy or what. They probably did. None of the students did. But just that that one meeting was, and they, you know, and I said, no, I'm not a spy. I'm just me trying to learn about the life and people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, OK, you did the South Africa trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And managed two passports and so forth. Now you're coming back for the beginning of the second year. Do you particularly recall starting your second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5934854803245648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was not a, it was not unreasonable and they weren't being nasty to me, but they were just wanted to know what I was doing. Did anyone at any point, a student or faculty or other friends ever say, well, are you a spy or?\n\nYeah, in fact at this meeting they probably asked me if I'd been a spy or what. They probably did. None of the students did. But just that that one meeting was, and they, you know, and I said, no, I'm not a spy. I'm just me trying to learn about the life and people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, OK, you did the South Africa trip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And managed two passports and so forth. Now you're coming back for the beginning of the second year. Do you particularly recall starting your second year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I recall, and to me it's just one big, one big, um, you know, doing my thing there at the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there wasn't any sort of self-reflection about, you know, I'm achieving what I wanted or going into the second year, maybe I want to do this before I go back because now I know it's just another year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1858511389911723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was doing a lot of personal growing up at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, you know, I think I thought I was fairly mature. I thought I was doing good and so forth. And but as I look back on it, I think I had a lot of self-interest. I wasn't, I wasn't very overall quite compassionate. I felt I was doing good things, but I wasn't going out of my way to become involved with a lot of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, as I said, why did I do that? I say, well, that's just who I was at the time, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable. Do you remember the Peace Corps staff asking you to go out to Sefwi because there were two women who were assigned there your second year? It would have been their first year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:533", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4287234877679693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, you know, I think I thought I was fairly mature. I thought I was doing good and so forth. And but as I look back on it, I think I had a lot of self-interest. I wasn't, I wasn't very overall quite compassionate. I felt I was doing good things, but I wasn't going out of my way to become involved with a lot of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, as I said, why did I do that? I say, well, that's just who I was at the time, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable. Do you remember the Peace Corps staff asking you to go out to Sefwi because there were two women who were assigned there your second year? It would have been their first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To kind of help them settle in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6985816530755216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, as I said, why did I do that? I say, well, that's just who I was at the time, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable. Do you remember the Peace Corps staff asking you to go out to Sefwi because there were two women who were assigned there your second year? It would have been their first year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To kind of help them settle in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I remember Don and I went out there a couple of, once, at least once. I remember going to. I remember going out to see you once I think, you are out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I, well, your first year, it was my second year there. But then Barbara and Elaine were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9984240589728017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To kind of help them settle in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I remember Don and I went out there a couple of, once, at least once. I remember going to. I remember going out to see you once I think, you are out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I, well, your first year, it was my second year there. But then Barbara and Elaine were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were there and we went up. I don't think we were necessarily very helpful though. I think we just went out there and said hello and spent the evening. And but, I mean, in terms of actually being helpful, in terms of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were veterans at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3315822877475574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. I remember Don and I went out there a couple of, once, at least once. I remember going to. I remember going out to see you once I think, you are out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I, well, your first year, it was my second year there. But then Barbara and Elaine were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were there and we went up. I don't think we were necessarily very helpful though. I think we just went out there and said hello and spent the evening. And but, I mean, in terms of actually being helpful, in terms of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were veterans at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But they were, uh, as I remember, they would come by and stop by Dunkwa when they came back and forth to Kumasi, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they had a jeep."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7017580974972857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were there and we went up. I don't think we were necessarily very helpful though. I think we just went out there and said hello and spent the evening. And but, I mean, in terms of actually being helpful, in terms of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were veterans at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But they were, uh, as I remember, they would come by and stop by Dunkwa when they came back and forth to Kumasi, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they had a jeep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had a jeep and so forth. I guess, I didn't know that. I forgot that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So second year you're teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.113064552774762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But they were, uh, as I remember, they would come by and stop by Dunkwa when they came back and forth to Kumasi, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because they had a jeep."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had a jeep and so forth. I guess, I didn't know that. I forgot that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So second year you're teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same kind of thing as the first year, teaching for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular travel during that year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7321784602157546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same kind of thing as the first year, teaching for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any particular travel during that year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't have, because the thing that Timbuktu and so forth was, uh, was because we just had a real long break that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the second year was a normal break. And so I remember we probably just probably went to Accra or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your role pretty much continued second year, essentially teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0357538446841716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't have, because the thing that Timbuktu and so forth was, uh, was because we just had a real long break that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the second year was a normal break. And so I remember we probably just probably went to Accra or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your role pretty much continued second year, essentially teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Teaching science and math."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And being the housemaster, but no larger circles. You had some friends in town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7925292794021552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In town we'd see on some Sundays and for the, uh. But I didn't really get to, I didn't get involved with the local politicians or the local chief, even though the chief was a young man and had just, had been, he had studied in the United States, just gotten back. And I just, we didn't get to them. We went to a couple of the festivals and we got to, we were invited and we went to them and so forth. But I didn't, I didn't really spend. The only thing I did do is I did do some, there was a school in town that was teaching, that was starting up, another school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. And I went there and helped them out a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just talked about some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a private secondary school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8306300128973323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't secondary. It was just a private school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Training college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so teacher training, I think or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that at your initiative?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.256255569885925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Training college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so teacher training, I think or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that at your initiative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know. They asked us to come let them know and see if we could help out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and it was all Ghanaian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.729172855428805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so teacher training, I think or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that at your initiative?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know. They asked us to come let them know and see if we could help out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and it was all Ghanaian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do? Did you teach science to them or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.254636506032006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know. They asked us to come let them know and see if we could help out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and it was all Ghanaian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do? Did you teach science to them or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I taught some math. It was only a couple of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, all right, all right. As you're getting near the end of the second year, what do you envision as your future? I mean, you know, you're going to, I assume you're going to, your choice is to leave Ghana, not to try for a third year."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.264983340780254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I taught some math. It was only a couple of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, all right, all right. As you're getting near the end of the second year, what do you envision as your future? I mean, you know, you're going to, I assume you're going to, your choice is to leave Ghana, not to try for a third year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Again, I got out of school here on the Stanford and not knowing what I wanted to do so, but knowing that I thought I'd better take the opportunity to get some traveling and experience for myself. And then so I'm at the end of the second year, I'm saying, well, you know, what do I do with my life now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't know what I wanted to do there either. So I had decided to. I thought I would go to. I thought I'd hitchhike basically, go across the continent to East Africa and see if I could get a job in East Africa teaching for another couple of years in East Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's stop at that point. Let's go. Do you recall, usually at the end of the your Peace Corps service there's what's called the termination conference? The group gets back together and you talk through your experience. Do you remember that at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.738870378644727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Again, I got out of school here on the Stanford and not knowing what I wanted to do so, but knowing that I thought I'd better take the opportunity to get some traveling and experience for myself. And then so I'm at the end of the second year, I'm saying, well, you know, what do I do with my life now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't know what I wanted to do there either. So I had decided to. I thought I would go to. I thought I'd hitchhike basically, go across the continent to East Africa and see if I could get a job in East Africa teaching for another couple of years in East Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's stop at that point. Let's go. Do you recall, usually at the end of the your Peace Corps service there's what's called the termination conference? The group gets back together and you talk through your experience. Do you remember that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your group was, it had become traditional, but only for a short time, was, uh, met with Kwame Nkrumah before you left."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.850457257586082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your group was, it had become traditional, but only for a short time, was, uh, met with Kwame Nkrumah before you left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. We did welcome back Kwame Nkrumah. But that was more like herding us into the, into his compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flagstaff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Flagstaff house and meeting him on the bus. And running in and doing that and then leaving. To me, it was, it was very nice, but it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was Nkrumah. You know, if you lived in Ghana in those years, wherever you turned, you would hear about him. Any special impression or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.556182795042635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought, I thought he's the guy. My impressions of him personally, no, because I didn't, I just saw him a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as far as the people thought of him, I felt the guy was, had really done a lot of good stuff. I felt, I mean, I felt there was a little bit of self-aggrandizement there. Kumi Nkrumah, The Big Man, kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Redeemer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Redeemer and all that stuff. But it was my sense, as they taught us in training, you know, that's part of the deal, right? And so I felt that he was, I felt that he had done some very good stuff for the country and that the people liked him. The people felt it was worth, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your second year, it was when Kennedy was assassinated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.173536438936261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as far as the people thought of him, I felt the guy was, had really done a lot of good stuff. I felt, I mean, I felt there was a little bit of self-aggrandizement there. Kumi Nkrumah, The Big Man, kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Redeemer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Redeemer and all that stuff. But it was my sense, as they taught us in training, you know, that's part of the deal, right? And so I felt that he was, I felt that he had done some very good stuff for the country and that the people liked him. The people felt it was worth, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your second year, it was when Kennedy was assassinated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year was the Kennedy assassination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you recall how you heard about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.859484932151401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Redeemer and all that stuff. But it was my sense, as they taught us in training, you know, that's part of the deal, right? And so I felt that he was, I felt that he had done some very good stuff for the country and that the people liked him. The people felt it was worth, it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your second year, it was when Kennedy was assassinated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Second year was the Kennedy assassination."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you recall how you heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember about that, very definitely. We were, we were walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You and Don?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.471172746435391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don and I were walking from the school with a bunch of students in the town. This is about, this is about a mile and a half hike kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Down the hill from the school to the main road and then into town, up the hill again into the main town. And we were coming down the hill when the students came up to me. And he said, Mr. Gilman, I'm very, very sorry. He said, your president was just killed. Your president was just killed. It was like, he felt it very personally, just as if Nkrumah had been killed and had died. And I said, woah. And that was, that was a shock to everybody. And so. I do, I remember we were, we were certainly for a day or two, we were feeling very, uh, connected and sorry and grieving about that.\n\nThe Ghanaians, all the Ghanaians were totally, were very, they were very compassionate about the whole thing. All the students and everybody was very compassionate. They felt very strongly for Kennedy and the fact that he'd been doing some things. That when Nkrumah had been in the White House, had been to the White House, that Kennedy held the umbrella for Nkrumah, which is holding an umbrella for the chief as a big deal. So he was showing deference to Nkrumah. And things like that, right? That they felt, they felt very strongly that Kennedy was a, had done a lot for them, and they felt, they felt very connected with Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were either you or Don churchgoers, I can't remember."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8568586071504347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Down the hill from the school to the main road and then into town, up the hill again into the main town. And we were coming down the hill when the students came up to me. And he said, Mr. Gilman, I'm very, very sorry. He said, your president was just killed. Your president was just killed. It was like, he felt it very personally, just as if Nkrumah had been killed and had died. And I said, woah. And that was, that was a shock to everybody. And so. I do, I remember we were, we were certainly for a day or two, we were feeling very, uh, connected and sorry and grieving about that.\n\nThe Ghanaians, all the Ghanaians were totally, were very, they were very compassionate about the whole thing. All the students and everybody was very compassionate. They felt very strongly for Kennedy and the fact that he'd been doing some things. That when Nkrumah had been in the White House, had been to the White House, that Kennedy held the umbrella for Nkrumah, which is holding an umbrella for the chief as a big deal. So he was showing deference to Nkrumah. And things like that, right? That they felt, they felt very strongly that Kennedy was a, had done a lot for them, and they felt, they felt very connected with Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were either you or Don churchgoers, I can't remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to church and Don, I think, was Catholic, but I don't think he, I don't remember him going to church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't recall if there was no."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.174287341278261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were either you or Don churchgoers, I can't remember."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to church and Don, I think, was Catholic, but I don't think he, I don't remember him going to church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't recall if there was no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he mean, maybe he went to the Catholic Church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a Catholic Church in Dunkwa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.526985934753623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't go to church and Don, I think, was Catholic, but I don't think he, I don't remember him going to church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you don't recall if there was no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he mean, maybe he went to the Catholic Church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a Catholic Church in Dunkwa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But at the time of Kennedy's assassination, there was no thought of, you know, finding a church to go to or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.918873260837359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he mean, maybe he went to the Catholic Church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a Catholic Church in Dunkwa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But at the time of Kennedy's assassination, there was no thought of, you know, finding a church to go to or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember. Not that I did. It was more just talking about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. OK. And let's jump now. You finish your service. As you're leaving Ghana, did you reflect back at all on your own sense of achievement or what it had meant, you know, for the two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.354303623152621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But at the time of Kennedy's assassination, there was no thought of, you know, finding a church to go to or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I remember. Not that I did. It was more just talking about him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. OK. And let's jump now. You finish your service. As you're leaving Ghana, did you reflect back at all on your own sense of achievement or what it had meant, you know, for the two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was planning. I was, I was mostly moving on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thinking what you were coming into."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.90654768290447, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was planning. I was, I was mostly moving on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thinking what you were coming into."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It might not be, it might not be necessarily strong, but one of the. When I, sometimes I have a dream nightmare. I don't dream at all. I go to sleep, I wake up, I don't dream very much. But occasionally I would have one and that was I had re-upped in Ghana for a second or third year. It was like, I'm stuck there. Like I didn't want to leave, that I am not moving on with my life kind of thing. This is later years. This is later years. This is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, afterwards. So I looked back on the sense, and I wonder, I don't know why that is. I don't consciously have that sense of it, but I have that sense of I was marking time and not moving on with my life. And in terms of I think probably in terms of adventure and learning to be self- sufficient, yes, I was, I did a lot. But in terms of actually, um, I guess I would have to look back and say I was marking time there and was pretty much self-absorbed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in many ways, there's no grand closure. I mean, to your two year, it's not a cycle where at the end of it you have a monument you can look to and say, this is what I achieved. Because, you know, school is ongoing and you're going to leave and it'll continue and yet."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6152917460966663, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Sharon come in, of course, when Don and I. Don and I were there the second year and a third Peace Corps volunteer had come in and she was staying on after that, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she lived in, she actually lived in the girls dorm. She wasn't in the dormitory. They had a second, like an office. And that's where she stayed, next to the girls dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was very much involved with all the girls in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left were other volunteers being assigned there or you didn't even know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9058797178851847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she lived in, she actually lived in the girls dorm. She wasn't in the dormitory. They had a second, like an office. And that's where she stayed, next to the girls dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was very much involved with all the girls in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left were other volunteers being assigned there or you didn't even know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were, but I didn't, I didn't know them. We'd gone already. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're talking about the end of service. And Sharon had come and was on staff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2287552420946497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was very much involved with all the girls in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left were other volunteers being assigned there or you didn't even know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were, but I didn't, I didn't know them. We'd gone already. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're talking about the end of service. And Sharon had come and was on staff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And she was staying on for the third, obviously. But there's no, as I was saying, there was no grand closure to having been a volunteer at Dunkwa, I mean, if you had done it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5875058245496105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were, but I didn't, I didn't know them. We'd gone already. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're talking about the end of service. And Sharon had come and was on staff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And she was staying on for the third, obviously. But there's no, as I was saying, there was no grand closure to having been a volunteer at Dunkwa, I mean, if you had done it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done it and I've gone on to something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next thing was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.69891059609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd been involved with the, you know, the girl in Accra, who was one of the volunteers in Accra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A girl, we had become involved with each other to some extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went out to see her. And she and I actually traveled through, she and I traveled together through Nigeria and into the Central African Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Is this at the end of the service or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:631", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.33046721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was leaving and she was, she was a first year so then she went back to Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Yeah. I feel in that sense I felt that, I look back on that and here's this girl who's a very lovely girl, traveling with me, wanted me to become much more involved personally with her life in terms of maybe ongoing. And I just had no clue about that. I was on my adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she finally got fed up with me on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So after Peace Corps, I mean, you did lots of things in your life, but at this point, looking back, you know, there were three goals to the Peace Corps. One was to provide needed skills where requested, and that's the teaching you did. The other is to familiarize people in other parts of the world with America. And the third is to, you know, have Americans learn about other parts of the world. Have you, in the years following, have you done much on the third point, you know, to let the world know about, to let Americans know about other parts of the world?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well. Um, let's see. After the Peace Corps I ended up in, I ended up doing a bunch of stuff with the school in Europe and ended up working with some of the military people, American military in Germany."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As an expatriate. And I would give, I would sometimes give lectures to people there. I had slides and would show some of the slides. I wrote some articles which got published in the Stanford Daily, the Stanford newspaper. Years later, I talked to somebody who said that he'd read the article I wrote and he signed up for the Peace Corps and it changed his life. And I think, wow, great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as far as actually organized or becoming involved with groups or something like that, you know, I didn't get involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't been back to Ghana and have not been able to maintain contact with any."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As an expatriate. And I would give, I would sometimes give lectures to people there. I had slides and would show some of the slides. I wrote some articles which got published in the Stanford Daily, the Stanford newspaper. Years later, I talked to somebody who said that he'd read the article I wrote and he signed up for the Peace Corps and it changed his life. And I think, wow, great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as far as actually organized or becoming involved with groups or something like that, you know, I didn't get involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you haven't been back to Ghana and have not been able to maintain contact with any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't try actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, OK. Overall, what would you say was the effect of having been in the Peace Corps on your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got, I had a lot of sense of my own ability to, uh, to face any kind of situation I wanted to face. I mean, travel anywhere. Um. I got to know a lot of different, different cultures and feel comfortable traveling among all kinds of different cultures. And what is the? I felt, I've always felt that I did something good. Therefore, I'm, I'm an okay person. I'm a, I'm a compassionate human being."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, um. I say, what did I really learn there? And I think it was a sense of growing up, of learning to be self-confident. I think, I think I would say, I would say very, very much I was, I had a lot a lack of a sense of a lot of self-confidence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During that time. It didn't show it directly, but indirectly. And I was, I was proving myself, I was trying to show, to prove to myself that I can handle myself in these situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I certainly knew traveling to Timbuktu, you must have had some sense of achievement, hitchhiking."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:649", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, um. I say, what did I really learn there? And I think it was a sense of growing up, of learning to be self-confident. I think, I think I would say, I would say very, very much I was, I had a lot a lack of a sense of a lot of self-confidence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During that time. It didn't show it directly, but indirectly. And I was, I was proving myself, I was trying to show, to prove to myself that I can handle myself in these situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I certainly knew traveling to Timbuktu, you must have had some sense of achievement, hitchhiking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hitchhiking around the Congo and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As well as teaching where you'd never taught before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:655", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and getting to know the people. The long lasting is, the long lasting that I felt that a sense of acceptance with other, for cultures, all cultures. But, you know, having grown up in Hawaii as I said early on, that was, I had grown up with that kind of sense of it wasn't a matter of understanding the importance of cultures and of different people. And, and, what I didn't, what I didn't learn at the time is how to get out of my own self, my own skin, and really, really connect, and really connect and with other people in order to help them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was there to help people, but to help myself, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was not, it was not. I was not at the level of maturity where I could just put myself aside and say, how can I be of service?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you may just be being more honest than many people are, you know, because it's clear there's a self, there's a, you know, an individual role and purpose in doing it and there's a lot of personal benefit to it. And incidentally, you help and, you know, making the leap into someone else's shoes is not a simple process."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:657", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I was there to help people, but to help myself, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, it was not, it was not. I was not at the level of maturity where I could just put myself aside and say, how can I be of service?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you may just be being more honest than many people are, you know, because it's clear there's a self, there's a, you know, an individual role and purpose in doing it and there's a lot of personal benefit to it. And incidentally, you help and, you know, making the leap into someone else's shoes is not a simple process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. But like Don, if I look at Don. Don was much more, he got more involved with the students. He went on trips with the students, took the trips students on a trip to northern Ghana and to Ouagadougou. He put on plays with the students. You know, I taught, and when I was through teaching, I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some of that may well have to do with personality difference. And it's not like he's a better person than you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00211:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. But like Don, if I look at Don. Don was much more, he got more involved with the students. He went on trips with the students, took the trips students on a trip to northern Ghana and to Ouagadougou. He put on plays with the students. You know, I taught, and when I was through teaching, I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And some of that may well have to do with personality difference. And it's not like he's a better person than you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but at that time he was, you know, not better. But he was at a place in his life that. And he was Catholic. That's right. Very true. And he had grown up with the sense of a little more maturity in that sense than I had. I had struggled through, struggled through high school, struggled to make a living, and the struggled through, not struggled, but through Stanford was, you know. And I had not yet learned, I, my job was to figure out how I can make my way in life, not how I can be there for other people particularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if there's anything else you want to add, but that's as good a place to stop."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 35.521532310925835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We would like for you to start by telling us what your role or your responsibilities were with the Shuttle-Mir Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My role was as a NASA ops lead. Generally, the majority of my time was probably spent in Russia, I would say, doing this task. We managed a team of folks to kind of be the eyes and ears for the astronauts on board. It involved things like keeping them up to date on what their schedule was going to include, any changes to activities, changes to experiments, passing information about experiments back to the payload developers, taking care of scheduling press events, things like that. So it was a little bit of everything over there. We also talked with the astronauts a couple times a day, just trying to keep them up to date on what was going on in the world, both within NASA and outside of places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours a day did that cover?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. I would say a standard day over there was probably ten or eleven hours a day, and it was six days a week, a little bit longer on weekends. What we would do, we would split teams. Our team was probably about nine or ten people at the most. It kind of grew about halfway through the program, so it wound up being about nine or ten people.\\n\\n What we would do, all ten of us would be there during the week, kind of at staggered shifts. We would cover from generally crew wake up, or about breakfast-time, until the crew went to bed. So we would be staggered in shifts to cover that period of time during the week. Then on weekends we would generally pick about a twelve-hour portion out of the middle of the day to cover."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there? You said the minority of your time was in Russia, so what did that equate to?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 46.01363521242401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The apartments are great. They do a good job of setting us up over there. I was basically in a two-bedroom, two-full-bath apartment. Kitchen had a dishwasher and a microwave. Washer and dryer, TV and stereo, and really all the comforts of home. We do have a capability, special phone lines to call back to the States pretty much any time we need to, so that helps a lot, too. I mean, just knowing that that's available to you.\\n\\n The apartments are great. In some way it's kind of like being in a dorm. It always reminds me of being back in college when I'm over there, because you have a bunch of people, and in general most of the folks that I work with were single, were about my age, so there were always people to go out and do stuff with, or just go to somebody's apartment and watch a movie and that sort of thing. So in a lot of ways that sort of makes or breaks your trip.\\n\\n It was like the first thing I would do, I would look at my schedule and see, okay, I'm supposed to go back here when. Who else is going to be there? You can have a great trip that way, and you can have a not-so-great trip that way, depending on kind of the mix of people you're over there with, because you're at work with them ten or eleven hours a day, and so they're not only your co-workers, they're your social network, too. I mean, they're the people you're doing stuff in the evenings with. So it's important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could start a whole family over there, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody's very close in bond?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is it different on your seven-month stay compared to the first time you went to support John Blaha there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 40.01515023602668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody's very close in bond?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How is it different on your seven-month stay compared to the first time you went to support John Blaha there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say Moscow has changed a lot. The first time I was there was actually probably about a year or two before John Blaha's mission. I was only there, I'll say \"only\" two weeks, two or three weeks, which at the time seemed like this huge amount of time. Now it seems like hardly worth unpacking. But the city itself has changed a lot, and NASA has gotten a lot better about supporting people over there.\\n\\n Living in the apartments is just a huge difference. For the first, I think, probably two or three trips I had over there, I was living in the Penta [phonetic] Hotel, which, it's a great hotel, but being in a hotel for eight weeks at a time, it's tough. I mean, things like doing laundry. I think through the Penta I actually had to do laundry through there once. It cost me like $136 or something. It was something ridiculous like that. But you find ways around it. You have some people washing out their clothes in the sink or the bathtub. We actually found this Russian woman that was kind of running a laundry service, so she would come by and she did a great job, so we used her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you learn the language to converse with people like that laundry person?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.233089523297064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. The time difference, it's a nine-hour time difference between Houston and Moscow. So really, in general, by the time the day is starting to wind down in Moscow, say, around five or six, that's when folks are just coming in over here. If it was something important, of course, you would page Frank or we would do what we needed to. But in general, you try to handle the mini emergencies as they would come up. So it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were there for Christmas, so that means it was cold there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you adapt to the cold weather?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really wasn't that bad. I grew up in the Northeast, so I was used to cold weather. It never really got just blistering cold, like \"I don't want to leave my apartment\" cold. It was probably about 20 degree Fahrenheit, which was warmer than I expected. The problem was it stayed that way for three months, three or four months.\\n\\n I did this last trip all wrong. I spent my winter in Moscow and my summer in Houston. So I need to get smarter about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there all different seasons, since you were there the 400 days?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.036766136996736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you adapt to the cold weather?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really wasn't that bad. I grew up in the Northeast, so I was used to cold weather. It never really got just blistering cold, like \"I don't want to leave my apartment\" cold. It was probably about 20 degree Fahrenheit, which was warmer than I expected. The problem was it stayed that way for three months, three or four months.\\n\\n I did this last trip all wrong. I spent my winter in Moscow and my summer in Houston. So I need to get smarter about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there all different seasons, since you were there the 400 days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see Russia in its full cycle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.040851263329706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really wasn't that bad. I grew up in the Northeast, so I was used to cold weather. It never really got just blistering cold, like \"I don't want to leave my apartment\" cold. It was probably about 20 degree Fahrenheit, which was warmer than I expected. The problem was it stayed that way for three months, three or four months.\\n\\n I did this last trip all wrong. I spent my winter in Moscow and my summer in Houston. So I need to get smarter about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there all different seasons, since you were there the 400 days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see Russia in its full cycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think, in general, I did. I think I hit most of the major holidays over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our holidays or theirs, or both?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.71205695925523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see Russia in its full cycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think, in general, I did. I think I hit most of the major holidays over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our holidays or theirs, or both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably both. But the last trip I was there I hit Christmas and New Year's. It was the first Christmas I'd been away from home, so that was kind of strange. But you had eight other people in the same situation, so we all had a big Christmas dinner and we watched \"The Grinch.\" Somebody brought \"The Grinch\" video over and we had a little gift exchange. It made it nice.\\n\\n New Year's was terrific over there. That's probably one of the best New Year's Eves we've had over there. We said, \"Oh, we're all going to go to Red Square.\" I thought Red Square's just going to be packed. We got down there and they had bands like set up right outside of Red Square, so there was a big crowd out there. But really in Red Square there was maybe a couple hundred people, which is nothing with the size of the place. So I won't forget that. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does Russia sponsor activities for New Year's, or was this just all individual things that people had done for the holiday outside of Red Square?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.45784106583914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think, in general, I did. I think I hit most of the major holidays over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our holidays or theirs, or both?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably both. But the last trip I was there I hit Christmas and New Year's. It was the first Christmas I'd been away from home, so that was kind of strange. But you had eight other people in the same situation, so we all had a big Christmas dinner and we watched \"The Grinch.\" Somebody brought \"The Grinch\" video over and we had a little gift exchange. It made it nice.\\n\\n New Year's was terrific over there. That's probably one of the best New Year's Eves we've had over there. We said, \"Oh, we're all going to go to Red Square.\" I thought Red Square's just going to be packed. We got down there and they had bands like set up right outside of Red Square, so there was a big crowd out there. But really in Red Square there was maybe a couple hundred people, which is nothing with the size of the place. So I won't forget that. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does Russia sponsor activities for New Year's, or was this just all individual things that people had done for the holiday outside of Red Square?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside of Red Square it was all sponsored. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where there's a lot of advertising there. Even you go in Red Square and every once in a while you'll see somebody's hung up banners for whatever. So I don't remember who was sponsoring whatever this New Year's Eve thing was. They had big screens. You could see the bands playing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was a different setting compared to maybe when you were there the first time around."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.39760118426571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably both. But the last trip I was there I hit Christmas and New Year's. It was the first Christmas I'd been away from home, so that was kind of strange. But you had eight other people in the same situation, so we all had a big Christmas dinner and we watched \"The Grinch.\" Somebody brought \"The Grinch\" video over and we had a little gift exchange. It made it nice.\\n\\n New Year's was terrific over there. That's probably one of the best New Year's Eves we've had over there. We said, \"Oh, we're all going to go to Red Square.\" I thought Red Square's just going to be packed. We got down there and they had bands like set up right outside of Red Square, so there was a big crowd out there. But really in Red Square there was maybe a couple hundred people, which is nothing with the size of the place. So I won't forget that. That was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does Russia sponsor activities for New Year's, or was this just all individual things that people had done for the holiday outside of Red Square?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside of Red Square it was all sponsored. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where there's a lot of advertising there. Even you go in Red Square and every once in a while you'll see somebody's hung up banners for whatever. So I don't remember who was sponsoring whatever this New Year's Eve thing was. They had big screens. You could see the bands playing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was a different setting compared to maybe when you were there the first time around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the changes that are being made there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.552890204739676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside of Red Square it was all sponsored. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where there's a lot of advertising there. Even you go in Red Square and every once in a while you'll see somebody's hung up banners for whatever. So I don't remember who was sponsoring whatever this New Year's Eve thing was. They had big screens. You could see the bands playing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was a different setting compared to maybe when you were there the first time around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the changes that are being made there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see changes being made also in the areas where you were living? You mentioned the apartments were there. Were the apartments new compared to when you were there and stayed at the hotel?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.836544671932973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the changes that are being made there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see changes being made also in the areas where you were living? You mentioned the apartments were there. Were the apartments new compared to when you were there and stayed at the hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, the apartments were there while I was living at the hotel. We did have some folks living in the apartments. Generally, we put our really long-term people there, the ones that were going to be there for four or five months. When I was living at the hotel, the most it was, was two months or something. I'm pretty sure there simply weren't apartments available, additional apartments available in that area. But NASA's continuing to kind of scoop up the apartments that are over there. For Phase Two, that is where all our people will be housed over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About the commute, how long did it take you to get and from work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.040605191036637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see changes being made also in the areas where you were living? You mentioned the apartments were there. Were the apartments new compared to when you were there and stayed at the hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, the apartments were there while I was living at the hotel. We did have some folks living in the apartments. Generally, we put our really long-term people there, the ones that were going to be there for four or five months. When I was living at the hotel, the most it was, was two months or something. I'm pretty sure there simply weren't apartments available, additional apartments available in that area. But NASA's continuing to kind of scoop up the apartments that are over there. For Phase Two, that is where all our people will be housed over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About the commute, how long did it take you to get and from work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about half an hour, forty minutes, by van. Traffic is insane over there. I can remember the first couple weeks I was over there, it was white knuckles the whole way.\\n\\n [Brief interruption] Actually, a couple of our interpreters are here visiting from Moscow.\\n\\n Traffic is just a mess over there. Like I said, the first couple weeks was bad. After that, it's nothing. It doesn't even faze you anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have to drive, you always had someone?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.48956132337404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as I know, the apartments were there while I was living at the hotel. We did have some folks living in the apartments. Generally, we put our really long-term people there, the ones that were going to be there for four or five months. When I was living at the hotel, the most it was, was two months or something. I'm pretty sure there simply weren't apartments available, additional apartments available in that area. But NASA's continuing to kind of scoop up the apartments that are over there. For Phase Two, that is where all our people will be housed over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About the commute, how long did it take you to get and from work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about half an hour, forty minutes, by van. Traffic is insane over there. I can remember the first couple weeks I was over there, it was white knuckles the whole way.\\n\\n [Brief interruption] Actually, a couple of our interpreters are here visiting from Moscow.\\n\\n Traffic is just a mess over there. Like I said, the first couple weeks was bad. After that, it's nothing. It doesn't even faze you anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have to drive, you always had someone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, yes. We always had a van taking us back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a good thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.21062369263782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was probably about half an hour, forty minutes, by van. Traffic is insane over there. I can remember the first couple weeks I was over there, it was white knuckles the whole way.\\n\\n [Brief interruption] Actually, a couple of our interpreters are here visiting from Moscow.\\n\\n Traffic is just a mess over there. Like I said, the first couple weeks was bad. After that, it's nothing. It doesn't even faze you anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have to drive, you always had someone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, yes. We always had a van taking us back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, thank heavens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about excursions? Did you have a chance to go do anything on your free time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.234026325153135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, yes. We always had a van taking us back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a good thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, thank heavens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about excursions? Did you have a chance to go do anything on your free time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure it was wonderful. Did you get to take some trips?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.22988313542621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, this is a good story. There is a guy that works over in psychological support. He's one of the people that sets up family conferences. When the Progress resupply vehicles go up, his group is responsible for getting the things the crew member wants on there, maybe some more books or movies or photographs or candy or whatever on there. But this guy is a big Green Bay Packers fan, and this friend of his is a big New England Patriots fan, who has spent a ton of time in Moscow. It just so happened a couple of years ago, the Packers played the Patriots in the Super Bowl. So the Packers fan, Steve, had this party and he had this big Packers banner up. Sometime during the party that banner disappeared.\\n\\n I won't point any fingers, but that people have taken that banner basically all over the world and have been photographed with the banner. It's been everywhere. I know it's been down to Australia. It's been to Antarctica. It went with the cosmonauts on survival training in Siberia or up at the Black Sea. It's been on orbit. It's been on Mir. It's just been everywhere.\\n\\n We realized, this was back in February, this friend of mine called and said, \"The banner's never been to Africa. You want to go to Cairo?\"\\n\\n I'm like, \"Yes. Let's do it.\"\\n\\n So we were there, it was just for a weekend, but we went. So I've got a picture of me on a camel holding the banner in front of the pyramids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All these pictures, do they go back to the original owner?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The original owner, as of right now, I think he knows there's something up with the banner. He doesn't know where his banner is. But there is somebody putting together a photo album, \"The Travels Of The Banner.\" This banner has been absolutely everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he's been left in the dark and everybody else is having a good time with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how funny."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.588759039362454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The original owner, as of right now, I think he knows there's something up with the banner. He doesn't know where his banner is. But there is somebody putting together a photo album, \"The Travels Of The Banner.\" This banner has been absolutely everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he's been left in the dark and everybody else is having a good time with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to try to get as many people together as you can when you give him the album?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.87639893262495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to try to get as many people together as you can when you give him the album?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've been talking about how to--we actually have to give him the banner back, too. So we've been talking about what's the best way to do this. We were trying to figure out someway, gosh, does anybody know anybody in the Green Bay Packers? Could we get Brett Favre to present this banner to him? I think folks are still trying to figure out--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They may go for it. That's a great PR story, that it's been everywhere."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.662220904475246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've been talking about how to--we actually have to give him the banner back, too. So we've been talking about what's the best way to do this. We were trying to figure out someway, gosh, does anybody know anybody in the Green Bay Packers? Could we get Brett Favre to present this banner to him? I think folks are still trying to figure out--"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They may go for it. That's a great PR story, that it's been everywhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, too. Yes, there's apparently a great picture of, I think, it's on the Shuttle, but it's got Mike Foale in one corner and Wendy Lawrence with one corner, and this thing's in the mid deck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did all of you try to work together to keep a light atmosphere? You know, having things like that always seems to make people have a good time together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.29135656052805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so, too. Yes, there's apparently a great picture of, I think, it's on the Shuttle, but it's got Mike Foale in one corner and Wendy Lawrence with one corner, and this thing's in the mid deck."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did all of you try to work together to keep a light atmosphere? You know, having things like that always seems to make people have a good time together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that something that everybody tried to do, is keep that type of attitude?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.657062845031165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did all of you try to work together to keep a light atmosphere? You know, having things like that always seems to make people have a good time together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that something that everybody tried to do, is keep that type of attitude?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try to. With some folks, it depended on what was going on during the mission. Andy's mission was probably the smoothest one I worked. In general, the mood over there was really good. When there were problems going on, on other people's missions, it was tough over there. You also get into a mode where if you have somebody coming over for six weeks, the first week they're over there, they're still trying to get adjusted and get into the swing of things. Then the last, probably, two weeks they're there it's, \"When's my plane?\" That sort of thing. So it's tough.\\n\\n Luckily, we always had a flow of people coming in and out. We tried not to swap everybody out at the same time, so you wouldn't have those kind of spikes and lulls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have a good exchange of information?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.17451427225685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that something that everybody tried to do, is keep that type of attitude?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try to. With some folks, it depended on what was going on during the mission. Andy's mission was probably the smoothest one I worked. In general, the mood over there was really good. When there were problems going on, on other people's missions, it was tough over there. You also get into a mode where if you have somebody coming over for six weeks, the first week they're over there, they're still trying to get adjusted and get into the swing of things. Then the last, probably, two weeks they're there it's, \"When's my plane?\" That sort of thing. So it's tough.\\n\\n Luckily, we always had a flow of people coming in and out. We tried not to swap everybody out at the same time, so you wouldn't have those kind of spikes and lulls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have a good exchange of information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, everybody that came in had something new to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.86057141361872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try to. With some folks, it depended on what was going on during the mission. Andy's mission was probably the smoothest one I worked. In general, the mood over there was really good. When there were problems going on, on other people's missions, it was tough over there. You also get into a mode where if you have somebody coming over for six weeks, the first week they're over there, they're still trying to get adjusted and get into the swing of things. Then the last, probably, two weeks they're there it's, \"When's my plane?\" That sort of thing. So it's tough.\\n\\n Luckily, we always had a flow of people coming in and out. We tried not to swap everybody out at the same time, so you wouldn't have those kind of spikes and lulls."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have a good exchange of information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, everybody that came in had something new to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general, what we did, we had five or six, in general, positions over there. Each position, somebody would be there for six weeks, and then the next person in their position would come over to take over for them. It really was just getting fresh bodies in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about your high point. Was there a low point during these 400 days that you were part of the Russian contingent that you thought \"Maybe I made the wrong choice. Maybe it'd been better if I hadn't done this\"?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.622857126243023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess, everybody that came in had something new to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general, what we did, we had five or six, in general, positions over there. Each position, somebody would be there for six weeks, and then the next person in their position would come over to take over for them. It really was just getting fresh bodies in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about your high point. Was there a low point during these 400 days that you were part of the Russian contingent that you thought \"Maybe I made the wrong choice. Maybe it'd been better if I hadn't done this\"?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I can honestly say there was never a time when I said I did the wrong thing. In general, when things were going bad over there, you're so busy you don't have time to think about it. But you come out of that a couple weeks later and you feel great, you know you got through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any down time when you all were waiting or just sometimes that you all were sitting, everybody looked at each other like, \"What are we supposed to be doing?\""}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.136507918047803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general, what we did, we had five or six, in general, positions over there. Each position, somebody would be there for six weeks, and then the next person in their position would come over to take over for them. It really was just getting fresh bodies in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked about your high point. Was there a low point during these 400 days that you were part of the Russian contingent that you thought \"Maybe I made the wrong choice. Maybe it'd been better if I hadn't done this\"?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I can honestly say there was never a time when I said I did the wrong thing. In general, when things were going bad over there, you're so busy you don't have time to think about it. But you come out of that a couple weeks later and you feel great, you know you got through it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any down time when you all were waiting or just sometimes that you all were sitting, everybody looked at each other like, \"What are we supposed to be doing?\""}, {"role": "user", "content": "Definitely not a lot. Weekends, in general, were slower than weekdays. But a lot of times you would spend weekends catching up on paperwork or catching up on E-mail or things like that. I always kind of looked forward the weekends. I mean, yes, it was long hours, but at least you would get caught up, caught up on everything.\\n\\n During Andy's mission we, like I said, it was probably the smoothest of all. He did a great job running his experiments. The experiments held up pretty well. There was probably more down time during Andy's mission than any of the others, but we were never bored over there, looking for stuff to do, anyway. There was always plenty of things to keep us busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about the food? What did you do for lunch every day? Here there's many, many choices, but what did you do for lunch? What did you do when you went home for dinner?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.98797122092334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I did not taste it. I'm not real adventurous when it comes to that. They're big into tongue over there, too. Nine times out of ten there was tongue on the menu. So you try to get the cafeteria when it opens at noon, because if you go there at two, you get tongue. That's your only choice. You get tongue or you get nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went out, did you have more a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In Moscow, there really is everything there. McDonald's is everywhere. You have T.G.I. Fridays. You have various American restaurants over there. There definitely is not a shortage of places to go to go out over there. Stores over there, grocery stores, in general, the big supermarkets like we're used to aren't very common over there, but they have a ton of little stores over there. You can, in general, find just about anything you wanted. Also I had a membership at the American Embassy commissary, so they would have all kinds of American foods over there. I could get tortilla chips and that sort of thing. We would load up and feed the masses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about other shopping? Did you buy clothes after you were there, the seven months in winter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of times I did. I think people would be surprised to know how expensive it is to live in Moscow. It's ridiculous. Clothes over there, you would pay three times the price that you would here and the quality would be half as good. So I really didn't buy much clothes over there.\\n\\n People did bring me catalogs, so I would do some shopping and get it delivered actually through the embassy. They can deliver to me over there. So a couple times I had that happen. Or I'd have it delivered to a friend of mine who was coming over on the next charter, that sort of thing. Clothes were something I never really bought over there. A lot of souvenirs the first couple months I was there. That was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite that you bought?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.542190245470378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In Moscow, there really is everything there. McDonald's is everywhere. You have T.G.I. Fridays. You have various American restaurants over there. There definitely is not a shortage of places to go to go out over there. Stores over there, grocery stores, in general, the big supermarkets like we're used to aren't very common over there, but they have a ton of little stores over there. You can, in general, find just about anything you wanted. Also I had a membership at the American Embassy commissary, so they would have all kinds of American foods over there. I could get tortilla chips and that sort of thing. We would load up and feed the masses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about other shopping? Did you buy clothes after you were there, the seven months in winter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of times I did. I think people would be surprised to know how expensive it is to live in Moscow. It's ridiculous. Clothes over there, you would pay three times the price that you would here and the quality would be half as good. So I really didn't buy much clothes over there.\\n\\n People did bring me catalogs, so I would do some shopping and get it delivered actually through the embassy. They can deliver to me over there. So a couple times I had that happen. Or I'd have it delivered to a friend of mine who was coming over on the next charter, that sort of thing. Clothes were something I never really bought over there. A lot of souvenirs the first couple months I was there. That was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite that you bought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Souvenirs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something special that you were glad you found that reminds you of being over there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.269100272744865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A couple of times I did. I think people would be surprised to know how expensive it is to live in Moscow. It's ridiculous. Clothes over there, you would pay three times the price that you would here and the quality would be half as good. So I really didn't buy much clothes over there.\\n\\n People did bring me catalogs, so I would do some shopping and get it delivered actually through the embassy. They can deliver to me over there. So a couple times I had that happen. Or I'd have it delivered to a friend of mine who was coming over on the next charter, that sort of thing. Clothes were something I never really bought over there. A lot of souvenirs the first couple months I was there. That was about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite that you bought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Souvenirs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something special that you were glad you found that reminds you of being over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, most of my souvenirs have gone to my mom. [Laughter] She was the one calling over, \"Yes, but that doll I gave to your aunt. Can you see if you can find me--you know, well, she just really liked it,\" and that sort of thing.\\n\\n No, I can't really think of anything. There's this one type of egg that I've kind of wound up collecting, that I probably have four or five of those that I'll hang onto."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to clothes, when you went to work, was there something special you had to wear? Was it a very comfortable atmosphere?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 16.965666969716516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Souvenirs?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something special that you were glad you found that reminds you of being over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, most of my souvenirs have gone to my mom. [Laughter] She was the one calling over, \"Yes, but that doll I gave to your aunt. Can you see if you can find me--you know, well, she just really liked it,\" and that sort of thing.\\n\\n No, I can't really think of anything. There's this one type of egg that I've kind of wound up collecting, that I probably have four or five of those that I'll hang onto."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to clothes, when you went to work, was there something special you had to wear? Was it a very comfortable atmosphere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very comfortable. In general, now, when all the press was over there, we would try to look at least a little professional. But in general, you would see folks in Dockers, sweaters. A lot of the guys would wear shirts and ties every day. They probably didn't need to. Some of the Russians did, some of them didn't. In general, it was a pretty casual atmosphere. I mean, you could go in blue jeans. I definitely wouldn't do that right out of the chute over there. Like we said, they're big into relationships over there and getting to know you. I think probably the first month or two I was there, skirt and heels or dress pants or something like that. After that, you would see all kinds of dress over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were over there, but while you were there and your team was there, you had a group of people supporting you here. In fact, you invited us into this room today called the POSA room. Could you tell us what they did, and did you also work as part of that team when you were here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.581161824028145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The POSA is Payload Operation Support Area. In general, it is staffed by a group of Lockheed-Martin folks. They basically are here Houston-time from about midnight until two in the afternoon, which corresponds to a work day in Moscow of like 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. So basically while the crew was awake.\\n\\n Most of the folks that supported over here also came over to Moscow to help out over there. We didn't really have any NASA folks in here, I mean, full-time. I would say we had people visiting three days a week, probably. It was probably more than that. I would say probably every day somebody from NASA pokes their head in here and sees how everybody's doing and just checks in with them. These guys did a great job.\\n\\n Unfortunately, they were given this task that, it's kind of like, \"Anything we need over in Moscow. We need you guys to go chase down this obscure fact. We need you guys to go run this down.\" So these guys, day to day they probably never knew what they were going to be working on the next day. Even like little things, like logical support stuff. \"Hey, can somebody track down the Steelers score for me?\" I mean, just little things like that. When we were over there for Christmas, they had arranged for one of the people that runs our voice loops to play Christmas music over our voice loops to us. I mean, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in here? Did it vary or was it the same amount of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general, it was probably two or three. But I feel sorry for the guys that are in here midnight to 9 a.m. I mean, they are the only ones in this building, just about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was nice, I guess, for you to know that they were here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. It was great. Also, if an experiment broke at three in the morning Houston time, it was nice; they got to call the experimenter and wake him up, not us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a benefit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.534624248920162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general, it was probably two or three. But I feel sorry for the guys that are in here midnight to 9 a.m. I mean, they are the only ones in this building, just about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was nice, I guess, for you to know that they were here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. It was great. Also, if an experiment broke at three in the morning Houston time, it was nice; they got to call the experimenter and wake him up, not us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a benefit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Overall, your positions have been so varied the last few years, do you feel that the Shuttle-Mir Program is going to be a benefit to International Space Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.482915832133513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great. It was great. Also, if an experiment broke at three in the morning Houston time, it was nice; they got to call the experimenter and wake him up, not us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a benefit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Overall, your positions have been so varied the last few years, do you feel that the Shuttle-Mir Program is going to be a benefit to International Space Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I think what we learned, my perspective, we learned how to run a mission. That's not just how to take care of the crew member, but it was how to take care of the people over in Moscow. We're going to have people living in Moscow, possibly at the other centers, I don't know, long term. It's a special-needs thing. I think it's one of the things NASA's probably still learning. I mean, we're getting a whole lot better at it.\\n\\n While I was there during Andy's increment, one of the other folks there from my group was there with his family. He was one of the first folks to actually bring his full family over here. He's got a wife and three kids, aged, I think, four to twelve, or something. So little ones he has over there.\\n\\n It's one of the things NASA's still learning, I think, is how you attract the right type of person to that job and how you keep them happy over there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find changes not only in how you did business, but did you see people change, become more flexible, just overall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5685279000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never felt like there was a time that I would say something and they weren't interpreting correctly. A lot of times we would be having a discussion amongst ourselves, just with the Americans, \"Do we do this? Do we want to do this? Well, why don't we ask this.\" This sort of thing. One of the interpreters would be sitting there listening to us, and would be like, \"Well, you want me to call So-and-so and find out?\" It'd be like, \"Yes.\" You'd get to the point where you trust them implicitly to do stuff like that. We're really lucky, we have a real sharp group of interpreters, and that was just key. They also, whether they like or not, sometimes get to be our Russian instructors. Some of my best phrases I learned from the interpreters. [Laughter] That's not for camera, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you be sharing those? [Laughter] Well, we all have to learn what we have to learn to deal with what we have to deal with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. You do what you have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your time today. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with us, something that maybe we didn't cover that you've thought about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't really think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we'd like for you to do is if you could just show us how this room works or tell us what's in here, so that we can at least capture that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.965031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's true. You do what you have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for your time today. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with us, something that maybe we didn't cover that you've thought about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't really think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we'd like for you to do is if you could just show us how this room works or tell us what's in here, so that we can at least capture that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. It's not going to be very exciting, but sure. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. We take it all and then we just kind of let it flow. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.40559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't really think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we'd like for you to do is if you could just show us how this room works or tell us what's in here, so that we can at least capture that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. It's not going to be very exciting, but sure. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. We take it all and then we just kind of let it flow. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might want to start with your friends up here [photos on the wall]. A lot of these folks you know, don't you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.8951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. It's not going to be very exciting, but sure. Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. We take it all and then we just kind of let it flow. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might want to start with your friends up here [photos on the wall]. A lot of these folks you know, don't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't work with Shannon Lucid. Your first time was with John Blaha, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might want to start with your friends up here [photos on the wall]. A lot of these folks you know, don't you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't work with Shannon Lucid. Your first time was with John Blaha, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you worked with her here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't work with Shannon Lucid. Your first time was with John Blaha, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you worked with her here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I was doing the Shuttle-only-type thing. So I worked her Shuttle flights.\\n\\n Yes, these are our cast of heroes here. Starting off with Norm [Norman] Thagard's flight and then all the way through. I guess we don't have any of Dave and Andy up yet. Actually, I just thought one of the things over in Moscow, we have a wall, kind of similar to this, smaller pictures. But we have the crews, kind of like their official astronaut portrait over there. We started at one point coming up with names for everybody. Somebody was, I think Norm Thagard, we were like, \"Oh, that's our man in the can.\" Shannon was \"That's our ace in space.\" It was that sort of thing. We have kind of our wall of fame over there, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are you going to finish these, or that's the only two we're going to get? Do you remember the rest?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in Moscow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you worked with her here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. When I was doing the Shuttle-only-type thing. So I worked her Shuttle flights.\\n\\n Yes, these are our cast of heroes here. Starting off with Norm [Norman] Thagard's flight and then all the way through. I guess we don't have any of Dave and Andy up yet. Actually, I just thought one of the things over in Moscow, we have a wall, kind of similar to this, smaller pictures. But we have the crews, kind of like their official astronaut portrait over there. We started at one point coming up with names for everybody. Somebody was, I think Norm Thagard, we were like, \"Oh, that's our man in the can.\" Shannon was \"That's our ace in space.\" It was that sort of thing. We have kind of our wall of fame over there, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So are you going to finish these, or that's the only two we're going to get? Do you remember the rest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them was \"Our hero in zero G.\" I can't remember what the other ones were.\\n\\n These are just a couple of layouts of some of the modules, some of the Mir modules. Like I said, it was tough for us to keep track of what all was located where. Or when Andy would call down, \"Hey, you guys, you know, keep me honest, I'm stowing this behind panel 214. If I need to find it again, help me.\" Just trying to figure out, okay, now where the heck did he put that thing? Just keeping track of where everything was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a training on the modules or was this on the job you learned where everything was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In general it was on the job. A lot of the folks that had been there before me had put together some great reference material that had layouts like this. \"Okay, here's where the treadmill is. Here's the galley is,\" and that sort of thing. So I had a general idea of where things were laid out.\\n\\n This is kind of the area I would say where most of the work gets done in these two rows. This black phone right here is where they talk to Moscow. The jobs they do here, I mean, are varied. They'll have some long-term things that they need to work on. We keep track of obviously the progress the astronauts are making on experiments and that sort of thing. So that sort of tracking gets done here. But little things, too. \"Can you guys make sure So-and-so sees a copy of this video that was downlinked?\" That sort of thing. These guys, it's not a glamorous job back here. They do it well. They do a real good job.\\n\\n Most of the computers in here--E-mail, with the time difference being what it is, E-mail is absolutely essential. There's no way we could do our jobs without it. These guys kind of try to funnel our E-mail for us and make sure we're seeing what we need to see and taking care of the other things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You never really felt isolated from here, because you had so many different forms of communication while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's true. Actually, towards the end of our trip over there, they set up kind of a video teleconferencing-type thing for us that we would use for family conferences. People could bring in the wife and kids and have them on camera and you'd be able to see each other for twenty minutes or so, or actually however long. It was nice. That sort of thing helps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand why it would be so hard for you to put together a job description of what you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. You do what needs done and you never know what that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for all the information and for your time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it's true. Actually, towards the end of our trip over there, they set up kind of a video teleconferencing-type thing for us that we would use for family conferences. People could bring in the wife and kids and have them on camera and you'd be able to see each other for twenty minutes or so, or actually however long. It was nice. That sort of thing helps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand why it would be so hard for you to put together a job description of what you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. You do what needs done and you never know what that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for all the information and for your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good luck with wherever it takes you in the future."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. You do what needs done and you never know what that is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you for all the information and for your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good luck with wherever it takes you in the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, who knows. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More experiences, you'll just have more adventures."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00783:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. You bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good luck with wherever it takes you in the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, who knows. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More experiences, you'll just have more adventures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, more adventures. That's what I'm looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you for speaking with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 23.048627640848594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spent a year in college, and then Korea [Korean War] broke out. I enlisted in the Navy, and after four years in the Navy, worked as an aircraft mechanic. I came out, I was an accounting major when I went to college the first time. When I came back, I went back to New Mexico, where my folks had moved to, and I was working in the oil fields and a potash mine, waiting to go back to college as an accountant. I watched all the contrails going across the sky, and I said, “Uh-uh, this ain’t for me.”\\n\\n I came back to California, went up to Reedley College, got an A&P [airframe and power plant mechanics] license and a pilot’s license. Just before I was going to go up to San Jose, I got a summer job down at NACA [High-Speed Flight Station]. Through that summer job, they came and asked me if I would stay. I said, “Yes, I like just what I’m doing here. I don’t need to go any more to college.” I accepted the job, went to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you interested in aeronautics before you went in the Navy and became a mechanic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I’d make the model airplanes, and all that good stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started that first summer job, you thought at first it was just going to be temporary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of things were you working on on that summer job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.83180848983177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I’d make the model airplanes, and all that good stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started that first summer job, you thought at first it was just going to be temporary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of things were you working on on that summer job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on a [McDonnell F-]101. It was a [NACA] Langley Research [Center, Hampton, Virginia] program. I was working as a crew member on a 101."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that entail, being a crew member on a 101?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.81312054425752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What type of things were you working on on that summer job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on a [McDonnell F-]101. It was a [NACA] Langley Research [Center, Hampton, Virginia] program. I was working as a crew member on a 101."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that entail, being a crew member on a 101?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changing engines, and fueling it, and getting it ready for flight, pre-flight, and fixing everything that broke, rigged her complete. Aircraft mechanic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to provide your own hand tools?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.014578382508354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was working on a [McDonnell F-]101. It was a [NACA] Langley Research [Center, Hampton, Virginia] program. I was working as a crew member on a 101."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did that entail, being a crew member on a 101?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changing engines, and fueling it, and getting it ready for flight, pre-flight, and fixing everything that broke, rigged her complete. Aircraft mechanic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to provide your own hand tools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do to get those tools?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.460642647231506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Changing engines, and fueling it, and getting it ready for flight, pre-flight, and fixing everything that broke, rigged her complete. Aircraft mechanic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to provide your own hand tools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do to get those tools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I left the Navy, I had a full tool box."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just brought that with you when you came."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.17849183025723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do to get those tools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I left the Navy, I had a full tool box."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just brought that with you when you came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You worked on cars with the same tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, to learn to do what you did on that 101, was that just by watching the older guys and them telling you what to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.198324255841367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when I left the Navy, I had a full tool box."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just brought that with you when you came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You worked on cars with the same tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, to learn to do what you did on that 101, was that just by watching the older guys and them telling you what to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, books, TOs [technical orders] that you read. But I had four years of experience in the Navy, working on airplanes. It was no big deal, other than just learning the procedures and the processes that they were using at the time that you did, it was just normal. When you’re getting paid as a mechanic, you know what to do. Then there was three other guys on the crew that if you had a question, you asked them; they had more experience. You had a crew chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those procedures and those processes, were they documented already? Or, was it just you learned those things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 33.55369361760152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You worked on cars with the same tools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, to learn to do what you did on that 101, was that just by watching the older guys and them telling you what to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, books, TOs [technical orders] that you read. But I had four years of experience in the Navy, working on airplanes. It was no big deal, other than just learning the procedures and the processes that they were using at the time that you did, it was just normal. When you’re getting paid as a mechanic, you know what to do. Then there was three other guys on the crew that if you had a question, you asked them; they had more experience. You had a crew chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those procedures and those processes, were they documented already? Or, was it just you learned those things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not to the extent they’re documented today. You had to sign off, you had a worksheet, a work book, you wrote down if there was any broken items or squawks against the airplane, it was written down. You wrote in your repair, got an inspector to buy it off, and move on. A pre-flight was always printed out, you just initialed the portion you did. It’s still the same today, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you first started working out here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.504104019557243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, books, TOs [technical orders] that you read. But I had four years of experience in the Navy, working on airplanes. It was no big deal, other than just learning the procedures and the processes that they were using at the time that you did, it was just normal. When you’re getting paid as a mechanic, you know what to do. Then there was three other guys on the crew that if you had a question, you asked them; they had more experience. You had a crew chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those procedures and those processes, were they documented already? Or, was it just you learned those things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not to the extent they’re documented today. You had to sign off, you had a worksheet, a work book, you wrote down if there was any broken items or squawks against the airplane, it was written down. You wrote in your repair, got an inspector to buy it off, and move on. A pre-flight was always printed out, you just initialed the portion you did. It’s still the same today, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you first started working out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On [North] Base. I came down for the summer, and they gave us a room out on [North] Base for 10 bucks a week. It had a little walk-in closet, and everybody had their [food] box, their chow they’d fix. Neil [A. Armstrong] was down there. All the new hires, the single people, we stayed down there. When I came down permanent, I rented an apartment in Rosamond [California].\\n\\n I take that back. That was the North Base. The South Base is where the B-2 is now. That’s the South—my mistake. It was the North Base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They provided that housing for you, the single people to have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.671226688396935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not to the extent they’re documented today. You had to sign off, you had a worksheet, a work book, you wrote down if there was any broken items or squawks against the airplane, it was written down. You wrote in your repair, got an inspector to buy it off, and move on. A pre-flight was always printed out, you just initialed the portion you did. It’s still the same today, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you live when you first started working out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On [North] Base. I came down for the summer, and they gave us a room out on [North] Base for 10 bucks a week. It had a little walk-in closet, and everybody had their [food] box, their chow they’d fix. Neil [A. Armstrong] was down there. All the new hires, the single people, we stayed down there. When I came down permanent, I rented an apartment in Rosamond [California].\\n\\n I take that back. That was the North Base. The South Base is where the B-2 is now. That’s the South—my mistake. It was the North Base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They provided that housing for you, the single people to have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was old barracks that was left there from the Air Force, when they moved the new base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you know about the NACA, coming from a Navy background, were you aware what the NACA was doing with research on airplanes before you came here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.745807431552148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On [North] Base. I came down for the summer, and they gave us a room out on [North] Base for 10 bucks a week. It had a little walk-in closet, and everybody had their [food] box, their chow they’d fix. Neil [A. Armstrong] was down there. All the new hires, the single people, we stayed down there. When I came down permanent, I rented an apartment in Rosamond [California].\\n\\n I take that back. That was the North Base. The South Base is where the B-2 is now. That’s the South—my mistake. It was the North Base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They provided that housing for you, the single people to have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was old barracks that was left there from the Air Force, when they moved the new base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you know about the NACA, coming from a Navy background, were you aware what the NACA was doing with research on airplanes before you came here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I was stationed at Naval Air Station Moffett Field (California) in the Navy.] I learned about NACA through Reedley College. We came down for a field trip, and that’s when I asked if they ever hired anybody for the summer. They said no, but we’re going to start this year. They handed me an app [application]. Made out an app, sent it in, just like you were a regular civil servant. In them days, you didn’t have to take a written civil service test. They would give you a rating on your experience and your schooling. I hired in as a WB-8. Most everybody else was hiring in at WB-2s, or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had the experience."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 34.16200825728016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was old barracks that was left there from the Air Force, when they moved the new base."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you know about the NACA, coming from a Navy background, were you aware what the NACA was doing with research on airplanes before you came here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I was stationed at Naval Air Station Moffett Field (California) in the Navy.] I learned about NACA through Reedley College. We came down for a field trip, and that’s when I asked if they ever hired anybody for the summer. They said no, but we’re going to start this year. They handed me an app [application]. Made out an app, sent it in, just like you were a regular civil servant. In them days, you didn’t have to take a written civil service test. They would give you a rating on your experience and your schooling. I hired in as a WB-8. Most everybody else was hiring in at WB-2s, or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you had the experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From out of college, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had that experience behind you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.06420772503723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From out of college, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had that experience behind you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, four years and then A&P and everything, gave me the experience. Yes, we came down and took an airplane apart and took it back up to Reedley and made a test bed out of it, that NACA had given us. I got to know some of the mechanics there. There was only 26 mechanics in the hanger when I hired in. We still had B-29s, all the X-models were there. [Bell] X-1, clear through them all. Then the X-2 was on the South Base. We hadn’t gotten it yet. Two [Boeing] B-29s [Superfortress], a [Boeing] B-47 [Stratojet]. The hanger—you’ve been out there. You know, the big hanger on the main building? The biggest hanger?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had all our airplanes in there. It was jammed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was a sight, seeing that for the first time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.51578636115248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, four years and then A&P and everything, gave me the experience. Yes, we came down and took an airplane apart and took it back up to Reedley and made a test bed out of it, that NACA had given us. I got to know some of the mechanics there. There was only 26 mechanics in the hanger when I hired in. We still had B-29s, all the X-models were there. [Bell] X-1, clear through them all. Then the X-2 was on the South Base. We hadn’t gotten it yet. Two [Boeing] B-29s [Superfortress], a [Boeing] B-47 [Stratojet]. The hanger—you’ve been out there. You know, the big hanger on the main building? The biggest hanger?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had all our airplanes in there. It was jammed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was a sight, seeing that for the first time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The thing is, you worked on all of them. If someone needed a hand, that’s why family is family out there. If someone needed help, they said, “Hey.” Okay, you go over and give them a hand?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody kind of helped each other out. Even though you were working on one particular airplane, or what’s what you were assigned to you were able to work on some of the others, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.795318179058306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had all our airplanes in there. It was jammed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was a sight, seeing that for the first time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The thing is, you worked on all of them. If someone needed a hand, that’s why family is family out there. If someone needed help, they said, “Hey.” Okay, you go over and give them a hand?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody kind of helped each other out. Even though you were working on one particular airplane, or what’s what you were assigned to you were able to work on some of the others, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. You might be working on an airplane, and then they might need someone to ride in the back seat and be an observer. In the [B-]29, we were launching X-1s and Phase IIs [Douglas D-558-2 Skyrocket]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever ride?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.4392424211759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The thing is, you worked on all of them. If someone needed a hand, that’s why family is family out there. If someone needed help, they said, “Hey.” Okay, you go over and give them a hand?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody kind of helped each other out. Even though you were working on one particular airplane, or what’s what you were assigned to you were able to work on some of the others, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. You might be working on an airplane, and then they might need someone to ride in the back seat and be an observer. In the [B-]29, we were launching X-1s and Phase IIs [Douglas D-558-2 Skyrocket]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a couple of rides, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that experience like?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 40.488047134639885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. You might be working on an airplane, and then they might need someone to ride in the back seat and be an observer. In the [B-]29, we were launching X-1s and Phase IIs [Douglas D-558-2 Skyrocket]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a couple of rides, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that experience like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it was. It’s something that not many people can say they got to do.\\n\\n Then, they offered you that permanent position. What was your main project after the 101?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 36.15808288227146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it was. It’s something that not many people can say they got to do.\\n\\n Then, they offered you that permanent position. What was your main project after the 101?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went over to the assistant crew chief on a [Lockheed F-] 104 [Starfighter] with old Dick [Richard E.] Payne. Old Clyde Bailey, did you ever interview Clyde Bailey?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ed [Edward C.] Coyle, who was crewing the 101 wanted me to move with him over to the [North American F-]100 [Super Sabre], on another project. Then Clyde called me in, and he says, “I think it would be a whole lot better if you went over and worked for Payne on a 104, brand new airplane. Good program.” He says, “He’ll teach you more.”\\n\\n I said, “Clyde, I’m here, whatever you want me to do, I’ll go do.” I went over, and Payne gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about a lot of processes; how to order parts the NASA way, which NASA uses the Air Force way, not the Navy Way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was different from what you were used to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 30.024357537420535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re responsible for the whole airplane, and everything that’s done to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the moment you take possession of it, on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If something happened, it was your fault. You had an ops [operations] engineer, and between the two of you, when it broke, or anything went wrong, the two of you worked it, but the responsibility was the crew chief. When something went wrong, the crew chief, it was your fault. We had a lot of power. In those days, crew chief had a lot of power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You directed all the activity that went around it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The instrumentation and you scheduled it and all these work orders come down, you coordinated all the work and the crews, and each airplane had a little different program, so each crew chief would handle that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there three X-15s here? Did you handle just one? Or did you handle all of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.02706393046726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If something happened, it was your fault. You had an ops [operations] engineer, and between the two of you, when it broke, or anything went wrong, the two of you worked it, but the responsibility was the crew chief. When something went wrong, the crew chief, it was your fault. We had a lot of power. In those days, crew chief had a lot of power."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You directed all the activity that went around it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The instrumentation and you scheduled it and all these work orders come down, you coordinated all the work and the crews, and each airplane had a little different program, so each crew chief would handle that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there three X-15s here? Did you handle just one? Or did you handle all of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it started out, there were six crew chiefs, two on an airplane, because we worked two shifts. You just rotated every 90 days, days and nights. Then it walked down to where they started cutting back, so then there was four crew chiefs left. I was supposed to take care of the one and go to night shift, and I didn’t want to. Mr. [Joseph R.] Vensel said I didn’t have to. Then we just rotated airplanes. I was [Ship] 2 up until that period. When it crashed at Mud Lake [Nevada], I went down to LAX [Los Angeles International Airport], at North America, we put it all back together and put the tanks on it. Then, when we came back, after, that’s when we shut her down a little bit. So, [Lorenzo “Larry”] Barnett sort of took Ship 2, I took Ship 3. We completely rewired Ship 3 and did everything, and I was crewing Ship 3 when Mike [Michael J. Adams] bought the farm and it crashed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of difference between the different X-15s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.03007103385251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The instrumentation and you scheduled it and all these work orders come down, you coordinated all the work and the crews, and each airplane had a little different program, so each crew chief would handle that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there three X-15s here? Did you handle just one? Or did you handle all of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it started out, there were six crew chiefs, two on an airplane, because we worked two shifts. You just rotated every 90 days, days and nights. Then it walked down to where they started cutting back, so then there was four crew chiefs left. I was supposed to take care of the one and go to night shift, and I didn’t want to. Mr. [Joseph R.] Vensel said I didn’t have to. Then we just rotated airplanes. I was [Ship] 2 up until that period. When it crashed at Mud Lake [Nevada], I went down to LAX [Los Angeles International Airport], at North America, we put it all back together and put the tanks on it. Then, when we came back, after, that’s when we shut her down a little bit. So, [Lorenzo “Larry”] Barnett sort of took Ship 2, I took Ship 3. We completely rewired Ship 3 and did everything, and I was crewing Ship 3 when Mike [Michael J. Adams] bought the farm and it crashed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of difference between the different X-15s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The programs, yes. Ship 2 had big drop tanks on it; Ship 1 had the small engines, and then it went to a big engine. Ship 2 had the big engine to start with, and then Ship 3 had a different guidance system in it. It had what you called Energy Management System. The panel was a little different, your cockpit panel. But, as far as the systems, they were the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take when you went down to North American to learn the systems? How long were you there doing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.255634482058344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it started out, there were six crew chiefs, two on an airplane, because we worked two shifts. You just rotated every 90 days, days and nights. Then it walked down to where they started cutting back, so then there was four crew chiefs left. I was supposed to take care of the one and go to night shift, and I didn’t want to. Mr. [Joseph R.] Vensel said I didn’t have to. Then we just rotated airplanes. I was [Ship] 2 up until that period. When it crashed at Mud Lake [Nevada], I went down to LAX [Los Angeles International Airport], at North America, we put it all back together and put the tanks on it. Then, when we came back, after, that’s when we shut her down a little bit. So, [Lorenzo “Larry”] Barnett sort of took Ship 2, I took Ship 3. We completely rewired Ship 3 and did everything, and I was crewing Ship 3 when Mike [Michael J. Adams] bought the farm and it crashed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of difference between the different X-15s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The programs, yes. Ship 2 had big drop tanks on it; Ship 1 had the small engines, and then it went to a big engine. Ship 2 had the big engine to start with, and then Ship 3 had a different guidance system in it. It had what you called Energy Management System. The panel was a little different, your cockpit panel. But, as far as the systems, they were the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take when you went down to North American to learn the systems? How long were you there doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the first time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the first time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.50626053562038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The programs, yes. Ship 2 had big drop tanks on it; Ship 1 had the small engines, and then it went to a big engine. Ship 2 had the big engine to start with, and then Ship 3 had a different guidance system in it. It had what you called Energy Management System. The panel was a little different, your cockpit panel. But, as far as the systems, they were the same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take when you went down to North American to learn the systems? How long were you there doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the first time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the first time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were over there maybe four, five months. Just before we got the airplane. Some of the guys had been over there for a year or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was quite a process, learning that plane, because it was so different, I imagine. You mentioned that the one that crashed at Mud Lake, and then you went and helped. Can you talk about that accident and what happened, and what you did after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.99538337730911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were over there maybe four, five months. Just before we got the airplane. Some of the guys had been over there for a year or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was quite a process, learning that plane, because it was so different, I imagine. You mentioned that the one that crashed at Mud Lake, and then you went and helped. Can you talk about that accident and what happened, and what you did after that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Ship 2 when [John B “Jack”] McKay took it in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had an engine failure, didn’t start, so they made an emergency landing at Mud Lake, and the gear folded. It had too much weight in the back. It didn’t jettison all the peroxide out of the rear tank. The engine peroxide that ran the pump that pumped everything in. When that did, it slid over, the wing dug in, it flipped over, and Jack got rid of the canopy, but thank God he did. It landed upside down. Once they pulled him out, we had to go up and get some cranes and turn it over and put it on a truck and bring it back. Then they finally found funding and that’s when they stretched it out 39 inches; they made the airplane longer. They put the drop tanks on it. That’s the one that Pete [William J. Knight] made the speed run in, tried to burn it up. But Barnett was on it, then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on the X-15 the whole time it was here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.328203752565678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Ship 2 when [John B “Jack”] McKay took it in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had an engine failure, didn’t start, so they made an emergency landing at Mud Lake, and the gear folded. It had too much weight in the back. It didn’t jettison all the peroxide out of the rear tank. The engine peroxide that ran the pump that pumped everything in. When that did, it slid over, the wing dug in, it flipped over, and Jack got rid of the canopy, but thank God he did. It landed upside down. Once they pulled him out, we had to go up and get some cranes and turn it over and put it on a truck and bring it back. Then they finally found funding and that’s when they stretched it out 39 inches; they made the airplane longer. They put the drop tanks on it. That’s the one that Pete [William J. Knight] made the speed run in, tried to burn it up. But Barnett was on it, then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on the X-15 the whole time it was here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything else while you were doing the X-15? Or that was it, you just crewed that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.80911528062853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had an engine failure, didn’t start, so they made an emergency landing at Mud Lake, and the gear folded. It had too much weight in the back. It didn’t jettison all the peroxide out of the rear tank. The engine peroxide that ran the pump that pumped everything in. When that did, it slid over, the wing dug in, it flipped over, and Jack got rid of the canopy, but thank God he did. It landed upside down. Once they pulled him out, we had to go up and get some cranes and turn it over and put it on a truck and bring it back. Then they finally found funding and that’s when they stretched it out 39 inches; they made the airplane longer. They put the drop tanks on it. That’s the one that Pete [William J. Knight] made the speed run in, tried to burn it up. But Barnett was on it, then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you on the X-15 the whole time it was here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything else while you were doing the X-15? Or that was it, you just crewed that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, other than when you’re on night shift, we worked on 104s, or anything else that might need it. If your airplane wasn’t ready to fly, you were just sort of babysitting and doing small mods [modifications]. When you had the time, you went and helped. Some of those crew chiefs down there they had on those 104s didn’t even know how to change an engine, so you had to go down there and give them a hand. Well, they were learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever work on the LLRV [Lunar Landing Research Vehicle]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.56568364514281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do anything else while you were doing the X-15? Or that was it, you just crewed that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, other than when you’re on night shift, we worked on 104s, or anything else that might need it. If your airplane wasn’t ready to fly, you were just sort of babysitting and doing small mods [modifications]. When you had the time, you went and helped. Some of those crew chiefs down there they had on those 104s didn’t even know how to change an engine, so you had to go down there and give them a hand. Well, they were learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever work on the LLRV [Lunar Landing Research Vehicle]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know what it is, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn’t actually do any of the maintenance."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 28.406315161269788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, other than when you’re on night shift, we worked on 104s, or anything else that might need it. If your airplane wasn’t ready to fly, you were just sort of babysitting and doing small mods [modifications]. When you had the time, you went and helped. Some of those crew chiefs down there they had on those 104s didn’t even know how to change an engine, so you had to go down there and give them a hand. Well, they were learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever work on the LLRV [Lunar Landing Research Vehicle]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know what it is, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn’t actually do any of the maintenance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, when they first had it, when the Iron Bird [X-15 simulator] was there—see, I left NASA for 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.11812795696643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know what it is, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn’t actually do any of the maintenance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, when they first had it, when the Iron Bird [X-15 simulator] was there—see, I left NASA for 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in ’69. I was crewing the [General Dynamics F-]111 [Aardvark]. I thought the world was passing me by, I wasn’t being advanced fast enough, so I quit. Mr. [Paul F.] Bikle said, “If you ever want to come back, Charlie, you can come back.”\\n\\n I said, “Well, thank you,” but I went up to Reedley where I had gone to school, and I bought a service station, and a tow business. I ran that, and then I got a call from Mr. Barnett.\\n\\n He said, “Hey, I really need you to come back and do something for me.” He said, “Would you come back?”\\n\\n I said, “I don’t know.”\\n\\n He said, “I can’t pay you what you’re making, tell me your bottom line, and we’ll see what we can do.” So, I did. The next thing, I came back and took over the [Space] Shuttle area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They asked you to come back and do that because of your experience with the X-15?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 27.90903106329603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, when they first had it, when the Iron Bird [X-15 simulator] was there—see, I left NASA for 10 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in ’69. I was crewing the [General Dynamics F-]111 [Aardvark]. I thought the world was passing me by, I wasn’t being advanced fast enough, so I quit. Mr. [Paul F.] Bikle said, “If you ever want to come back, Charlie, you can come back.”\\n\\n I said, “Well, thank you,” but I went up to Reedley where I had gone to school, and I bought a service station, and a tow business. I ran that, and then I got a call from Mr. Barnett.\\n\\n He said, “Hey, I really need you to come back and do something for me.” He said, “Would you come back?”\\n\\n I said, “I don’t know.”\\n\\n He said, “I can’t pay you what you’re making, tell me your bottom line, and we’ll see what we can do.” So, I did. The next thing, I came back and took over the [Space] Shuttle area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They asked you to come back and do that because of your experience with the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my experience with NASA. Knowing the ropes. Knowing how to get around. My first six weeks I was down in the Shuttle area, my job was to tell them what was wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was wrong with the processes that they were using?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.73713010714225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And knew how to get things done. There was that NACA mentality in the way things were done, and then when it got switched over to NASA, for a while, maybe it may have maintained that, but things started changing after a time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it went from NACA to NASA, at Dryden it didn’t change. We still did the same old thing we’d always been doing, it was the same old way. Then you’d have processes and pillars, and all this stuff come down from [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC] that you had to bring into your processes. The process, for now, is just so cumbersome. You could not fly an X-15 today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just because of the way they do things, or process things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hell, they wouldn’t let you be running the pumps, and stick your head in there and see if there was a fire or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a dangerous situation, being an aircraft mechanic, then working with those crews, the X-15, and I know mechanics were right there with toxic fumes, and different things happening."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.374589007935832, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When it went from NACA to NASA, at Dryden it didn’t change. We still did the same old thing we’d always been doing, it was the same old way. Then you’d have processes and pillars, and all this stuff come down from [NASA] Headquarters [Washington, DC] that you had to bring into your processes. The process, for now, is just so cumbersome. You could not fly an X-15 today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just because of the way they do things, or process things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hell, they wouldn’t let you be running the pumps, and stick your head in there and see if there was a fire or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a dangerous situation, being an aircraft mechanic, then working with those crews, the X-15, and I know mechanics were right there with toxic fumes, and different things happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were careful. We knew what we were doing. Today there’s just too many people saying, “Well, gee whiz, what if, what if, what if?” Well, come on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came back, when was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.971765564373143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hell, they wouldn’t let you be running the pumps, and stick your head in there and see if there was a fire or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a dangerous situation, being an aircraft mechanic, then working with those crews, the X-15, and I know mechanics were right there with toxic fumes, and different things happening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were careful. We knew what we were doing. Today there’s just too many people saying, “Well, gee whiz, what if, what if, what if?” Well, come on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came back, when was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was gone through the ‘70s. I came back in ’80."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there during some of the early ALT [Approach and Landing Test] flights at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.524183960414604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were careful. We knew what we were doing. Today there’s just too many people saying, “Well, gee whiz, what if, what if, what if?” Well, come on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came back, when was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was gone through the ‘70s. I came back in ’80."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there during some of the early ALT [Approach and Landing Test] flights at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, right after that. I was an inspector on the 747, plus taking care of some of the stuff in the Shuttle area, until I finally became Chief of the Shuttle Support Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were inspector for the 747. What did that entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.026871067127336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was gone through the ‘70s. I came back in ’80."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there during some of the early ALT [Approach and Landing Test] flights at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, right after that. I was an inspector on the 747, plus taking care of some of the stuff in the Shuttle area, until I finally became Chief of the Shuttle Support Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were inspector for the 747. What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That airplane belonged to Johnson. That was a Johnson contract that worked on that airplane. Well, [Joseph S.] Algranti, the deal was, when they left it there, that Dryden would furnish an inspector to make sure Dryden was covered. I got that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You inspected to make sure that everything was done right on it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.585412296808151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, right after that. I was an inspector on the 747, plus taking care of some of the stuff in the Shuttle area, until I finally became Chief of the Shuttle Support Office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were inspector for the 747. What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That airplane belonged to Johnson. That was a Johnson contract that worked on that airplane. Well, [Joseph S.] Algranti, the deal was, when they left it there, that Dryden would furnish an inspector to make sure Dryden was covered. I got that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You inspected to make sure that everything was done right on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I went down to Flying Tigers [Flying Tiger Line], and I went to 747 school. I could have crewed it, I had the same ability. But I don’t think I would have. You had to learn the airplane to even inspect it. You didn’t know what the hell you was looking at if you didn’t know some of the systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that first Shuttle flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.317124774231278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That airplane belonged to Johnson. That was a Johnson contract that worked on that airplane. Well, [Joseph S.] Algranti, the deal was, when they left it there, that Dryden would furnish an inspector to make sure Dryden was covered. I got that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You inspected to make sure that everything was done right on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I went down to Flying Tigers [Flying Tiger Line], and I went to 747 school. I could have crewed it, I had the same ability. But I don’t think I would have. You had to learn the airplane to even inspect it. You didn’t know what the hell you was looking at if you didn’t know some of the systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-1?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’m sure everyone watched that first launch. Talk about when it came back and what your duties were."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.130138638034754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I went down to Flying Tigers [Flying Tiger Line], and I went to 747 school. I could have crewed it, I had the same ability. But I don’t think I would have. You had to learn the airplane to even inspect it. You didn’t know what the hell you was looking at if you didn’t know some of the systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that first Shuttle flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-1?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’m sure everyone watched that first launch. Talk about when it came back and what your duties were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the night before was chaos with all the photographers that were there. I was up all night long, because they’d climb the fence, and keeping them out of the area, it got to be a nightmare calling security, “Get that guy out of here.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of your responsibilities, too, making sure the area was clear?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.81126515337195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-1?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’m sure everyone watched that first launch. Talk about when it came back and what your duties were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the night before was chaos with all the photographers that were there. I was up all night long, because they’d climb the fence, and keeping them out of the area, it got to be a nightmare calling security, “Get that guy out of here.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of your responsibilities, too, making sure the area was clear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. All the equipment, because Dryden was in charge of all rolling stock. We maintained all the rolling stock, stair trucks, the generators, almost all that convoy equipment that was going out, we maintained it all. That was our job. We had a contractor that did some, then NASA was a COTR [Contracting Officer’s Technical Representative], oversaw it. That was part of my responsibility. But after we did that and they landed, and they towed it back, that’s the first time I ever saw it. I got a sunburn on the roof of my mouth from gawking at it.\\n\\n But when we were towing it back, they came across the lake bed, and we were going to pull it up—you’ve been out there, where the MDD [Shuttle Mate-Demate Device] was? Old Chuck [Charles A.] Brown, which he was a facility guy at the time, washed down the ramp, and water went out on the lake bed, made it a little soft. They were pulling it, and I could see the Shuttle sinking. I’m telling them, “Pull harder, get moving, get it going faster.” Oh, no, no. They stopped. Down she went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On a STS-1?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.688978262512958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right out in front. It’s dark, and everything. They finally give up and said, “Oh, the tug’s bad.”\\n\\n “No, the tug’s not bad.”\\n\\n “Oh, it’s all heating up.”\\n\\n I took the radiator cap, stuck my finger in, and said, “Not very damned hot to me.” I’m arguing with Kennedy. They didn’t know what to do. Finally, I turned around and says, “Do you think you know how?”\\n\\n And I said, “Oh, yes.” I called the warehouse and said, “Send me down a bunch of plywood. Thickest you got.” Come down and put plywood under the wheels. First, I wanted to leave the air out of the tires. Oh, can’t do that. That’s old farmers that do that. We got the plywood down, got the T500 [truck] come down, hooked it on, we pulled it and got it up on the plywood, started moving, take that plywood and walked it up until we got to concrete. They didn’t like that, either. But it got done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would have been the alternative if you hadn’t gotten it out of there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have probably gone down and dug it down and poured concrete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Built a ramp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know how they would overdo things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned the convoy and the ground support equipment. How many trucks were in that convoy?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.098864736125506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would have probably gone down and dug it down and poured concrete."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Built a ramp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know how they would overdo things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned the convoy and the ground support equipment. How many trucks were in that convoy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, probably 14, 15, 20 or so. I think the first time we went down with everything there that was 25, 30 vehicles in line. They had the two big air conditioning units, that cool and the purge. Those were the ones with the tubes coming up, they did the same thing at Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of people, then they were all working under you, the people that drove it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.776516373472784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know how they would overdo things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned the convoy and the ground support equipment. How many trucks were in that convoy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, probably 14, 15, 20 or so. I think the first time we went down with everything there that was 25, 30 vehicles in line. They had the two big air conditioning units, that cool and the purge. Those were the ones with the tubes coming up, they did the same thing at Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of people, then they were all working under you, the people that drove it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I supported that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The flights that came after that, of course [STS-] 2 landed, but STS-3 landed at White Sands [New Mexico]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 26.41835152608087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, probably 14, 15, 20 or so. I think the first time we went down with everything there that was 25, 30 vehicles in line. They had the two big air conditioning units, that cool and the purge. Those were the ones with the tubes coming up, they did the same thing at Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of people, then they were all working under you, the people that drove it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I supported that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The flights that came after that, of course [STS-] 2 landed, but STS-3 landed at White Sands [New Mexico]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We packed all the equipment to go to White Sands. We came in that day, they had the abort, and they made the decision, so we started tearing all the equipment apart, putting it together, went home, took a shower, came back, we loaded them up on the cars, drove to Las Cruces [New Mexico], went out to White Sands for a meeting. We beat the train there. Then we went and started unloading the train, and then I went to bed. Slept in the car on the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.798168362312076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I supported that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The flights that came after that, of course [STS-] 2 landed, but STS-3 landed at White Sands [New Mexico]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We packed all the equipment to go to White Sands. We came in that day, they had the abort, and they made the decision, so we started tearing all the equipment apart, putting it together, went home, took a shower, came back, we loaded them up on the cars, drove to Las Cruces [New Mexico], went out to White Sands for a meeting. We beat the train there. Then we went and started unloading the train, and then I went to bed. Slept in the car on the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was it? A month? Three weeks? That’s when it got all sanded up. In fact, it was Lockheed then. They didn’t show up in time, so here I am driving the purge unit and equipment back out to White Sands, and my guys. I had four guys from Smith, it was Smith Engineering [Company] at the time. It’s Kay and Associates now, but that contract. They were there, we took care of all the generators and made sure they kept running through the whole time, and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took all the equipment out there to take care of that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.44240929145786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We packed all the equipment to go to White Sands. We came in that day, they had the abort, and they made the decision, so we started tearing all the equipment apart, putting it together, went home, took a shower, came back, we loaded them up on the cars, drove to Las Cruces [New Mexico], went out to White Sands for a meeting. We beat the train there. Then we went and started unloading the train, and then I went to bed. Slept in the car on the way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was it? A month? Three weeks? That’s when it got all sanded up. In fact, it was Lockheed then. They didn’t show up in time, so here I am driving the purge unit and equipment back out to White Sands, and my guys. I had four guys from Smith, it was Smith Engineering [Company] at the time. It’s Kay and Associates now, but that contract. They were there, we took care of all the generators and made sure they kept running through the whole time, and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You took all the equipment out there to take care of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I worked pretty close with Kennedy. We were just outside looking in. But when they needed something, they knew where to come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, coordinating, I imagine especially on that flight, the coordinating between Kennedy and Johnson and Dryden, and then you throw White Sands into it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.33050760377513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a big show. I had to go in and get something, because I had a little pickup, I ran around, and I was a chief gofer, and I’m running in there to get something out of the thing, the guy with the Uzi says, “You can’t go here.”\\n\\n I said, “Then shoot me.” He looked at me. I said, “I’ve got a job to do, you got a job to do. I have to see that person right now, and I’m gone.” I walked right on by and did my job and left. I don’t know if he’d have shot me, or not, but I think I out-bluffed him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was so much more interest once the Shuttle started than there was when you first started with some of those X-planes, and the X-15. Nobody really knew what was going on out here. Then Shuttle came and brought a lot of attention."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[President Lyndon B.] Johnson came out on the X-15, and there were movie stars. We made the X 15 film, did you ever see that one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve ever seen it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had [Charles] Bronson, Chuck Bronson, and I forget some of the others. They made a film, and we filmed at night in our hanger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a regular Hollywood film?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.033897337527918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[President Lyndon B.] Johnson came out on the X-15, and there were movie stars. We made the X 15 film, did you ever see that one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think I’ve ever seen it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had [Charles] Bronson, Chuck Bronson, and I forget some of the others. They made a film, and we filmed at night in our hanger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a regular Hollywood film?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A regular Hollywood film, big time. Yes, it was great, because they brought their food, and we could go eat their food. We didn’t have to bring our lunch bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the movie good?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.037663708364352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had [Charles] Bronson, Chuck Bronson, and I forget some of the others. They made a film, and we filmed at night in our hanger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a regular Hollywood film?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A regular Hollywood film, big time. Yes, it was great, because they brought their food, and we could go eat their food. We didn’t have to bring our lunch bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the movie good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was pretty good, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like it was realistic?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 32.2640707870715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A regular Hollywood film, big time. Yes, it was great, because they brought their food, and we could go eat their food. We didn’t have to bring our lunch bucket."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the movie good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was pretty good, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like it was realistic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of, yes. They took a little mockup and put it on the [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress], and they would show some of that. It was just sort of a love story, or whatever it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to look that up. Did you support their effort to do that and was that part of what you needed to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.960078652301675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was pretty good, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel like it was realistic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of, yes. They took a little mockup and put it on the [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress], and they would show some of that. It was just sort of a love story, or whatever it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to look that up. Did you support their effort to do that and was that part of what you needed to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Night shift did that. Then, when they made that lunar landing picture, for HBO [From the Earth to the Moon], we supported that, too. That was a lot later on. I was running a support contract out there. I retired in ’94 and I started a flight station out here for [Aurora] Flight Sciences, flying robotic airplanes. The Perseus. We put an airplane to a hundred thousand feet with a gas engine. Robotic.\\n\\n Then after a year, I found out that big green money they flash in front of your face was not worth it. I quit. Then the guy that was running the AGE [Aerospace Ground Equipment] support contract out there had a massive heart attack, and they asked me if I would come and take over that contract, so I did that. I was there for 11 years doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that, the support contract?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.95564294700186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of, yes. They took a little mockup and put it on the [Boeing] B-52 [Stratofortress], and they would show some of that. It was just sort of a love story, or whatever it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to look that up. Did you support their effort to do that and was that part of what you needed to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Night shift did that. Then, when they made that lunar landing picture, for HBO [From the Earth to the Moon], we supported that, too. That was a lot later on. I was running a support contract out there. I retired in ’94 and I started a flight station out here for [Aurora] Flight Sciences, flying robotic airplanes. The Perseus. We put an airplane to a hundred thousand feet with a gas engine. Robotic.\\n\\n Then after a year, I found out that big green money they flash in front of your face was not worth it. I quit. Then the guy that was running the AGE [Aerospace Ground Equipment] support contract out there had a massive heart attack, and they asked me if I would come and take over that contract, so I did that. I was there for 11 years doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that, the support contract?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took care of all the AGE equipment, ground support equipment, all the vehicles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were on the other side now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 23, "return_to_go": 31.06182549666873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Night shift did that. Then, when they made that lunar landing picture, for HBO [From the Earth to the Moon], we supported that, too. That was a lot later on. I was running a support contract out there. I retired in ’94 and I started a flight station out here for [Aurora] Flight Sciences, flying robotic airplanes. The Perseus. We put an airplane to a hundred thousand feet with a gas engine. Robotic.\\n\\n Then after a year, I found out that big green money they flash in front of your face was not worth it. I quit. Then the guy that was running the AGE [Aerospace Ground Equipment] support contract out there had a massive heart attack, and they asked me if I would come and take over that contract, so I did that. I was there for 11 years doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that, the support contract?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took care of all the AGE equipment, ground support equipment, all the vehicles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were on the other side now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a contractor. I was triple-dipping. Well, I was still doing what I wanted to do. I’ve always been sort of a troubleshooter. When they’d come and say, “How can we do this?” or, “Can we do that?”\\n\\n “Yes, we can do that.”\\n\\n “Well it’s not really—they’re not going to—”\\n\\n I said, “No, it can get done. Just shut up and be quiet, and it’ll get done.” In fact, you heard about the [Convair] 990 [Coronado] program?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead and talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.287495041409432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After they started landing in Florida, you still had to be ready here in Dryden, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in case?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we landed out there, what, 26 times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to be ready in case they aborted too, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.652772268232702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in case?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we landed out there, what, 26 times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to be ready in case they aborted too, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that any different, preparing for those aborts, than it would be for a normal landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.058635853591891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, we landed out there, what, 26 times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to be ready in case they aborted too, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that any different, preparing for those aborts, than it would be for a normal landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not much, other than the personnel. We finally had our own little crew, so if it had did an AOA [Abort Once Around] and landed here, we’d have gone out and powered down and hooked the tow bar on it and pulled it off the runway, basically, and sit there and wait for Kennedy to get out here. We knew enough about the systems on the Shuttle by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How to take care of them, and safe them, and everything. You mentioned STS-1 getting stuck. Did that happen more than once?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.62070650399099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that any different, preparing for those aborts, than it would be for a normal landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not much, other than the personnel. We finally had our own little crew, so if it had did an AOA [Abort Once Around] and landed here, we’d have gone out and powered down and hooked the tow bar on it and pulled it off the runway, basically, and sit there and wait for Kennedy to get out here. We knew enough about the systems on the Shuttle by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How to take care of them, and safe them, and everything. You mentioned STS-1 getting stuck. Did that happen more than once?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I forget which other one. We went and did a whole bunch of testing on the lake bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that. I think how you tested the lake bed, I think that’s pretty interesting, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.245229448878877, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not much, other than the personnel. We finally had our own little crew, so if it had did an AOA [Abort Once Around] and landed here, we’d have gone out and powered down and hooked the tow bar on it and pulled it off the runway, basically, and sit there and wait for Kennedy to get out here. We knew enough about the systems on the Shuttle by that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How to take care of them, and safe them, and everything. You mentioned STS-1 getting stuck. Did that happen more than once?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I forget which other one. We went and did a whole bunch of testing on the lake bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that. I think how you tested the lake bed, I think that’s pretty interesting, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a big—what would you call it? A trailer with the Shuttle tire mounted on it, in the middle of it. We put weights on it to make it 250,000 pounds. We pulled it with a tug out around the runways and the lake bed, and then we measured how deep it went, which certified it for a Shuttle landing. Then they came out and we got testers, where they did a kind of [ground penetrating radar], put it in a vehicle and popped it down, and you knew by the size of your probe that you were pushing down, how much weight it would take. We went around sort of flying it that way after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they still got stuck, even though you did test it like that, occasionally?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.93914383208764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I forget which other one. We went and did a whole bunch of testing on the lake bed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about that. I think how you tested the lake bed, I think that’s pretty interesting, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a big—what would you call it? A trailer with the Shuttle tire mounted on it, in the middle of it. We put weights on it to make it 250,000 pounds. We pulled it with a tug out around the runways and the lake bed, and then we measured how deep it went, which certified it for a Shuttle landing. Then they came out and we got testers, where they did a kind of [ground penetrating radar], put it in a vehicle and popped it down, and you knew by the size of your probe that you were pushing down, how much weight it would take. We went around sort of flying it that way after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they still got stuck, even though you did test it like that, occasionally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. Well, the Air Force did it first. This kid, captain, certified the runway, and we said, okay, so we towed it the second time on the lake bed towards the Shuttle area. We followed the area, he had it, and we stuck it. But it was easier to get out that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to use plywood again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.82127092454182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a big—what would you call it? A trailer with the Shuttle tire mounted on it, in the middle of it. We put weights on it to make it 250,000 pounds. We pulled it with a tug out around the runways and the lake bed, and then we measured how deep it went, which certified it for a Shuttle landing. Then they came out and we got testers, where they did a kind of [ground penetrating radar], put it in a vehicle and popped it down, and you knew by the size of your probe that you were pushing down, how much weight it would take. We went around sort of flying it that way after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they still got stuck, even though you did test it like that, occasionally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. Well, the Air Force did it first. This kid, captain, certified the runway, and we said, okay, so we towed it the second time on the lake bed towards the Shuttle area. We followed the area, he had it, and we stuck it. But it was easier to get out that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to use plywood again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seemed to work better than any other idea, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.91252324949091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. Well, the Air Force did it first. This kid, captain, certified the runway, and we said, okay, so we towed it the second time on the lake bed towards the Shuttle area. We followed the area, he had it, and we stuck it. But it was easier to get out that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to use plywood again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seemed to work better than any other idea, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, when they had the flat out there, they didn’t know what to do. I got my plywood out, and I made a little bridge, and I pulled the Shuttle gear up on there, and we took the brake, the brake came apart. Pulled the tire off, pulled the brake off. Put the tire back on, backed it down off. Kennedy said I overstressed the Shuttle, so I had to prove to them I didn’t overstress it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prove it to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.013914721656565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That seemed to work better than any other idea, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, when they had the flat out there, they didn’t know what to do. I got my plywood out, and I made a little bridge, and I pulled the Shuttle gear up on there, and we took the brake, the brake came apart. Pulled the tire off, pulled the brake off. Put the tire back on, backed it down off. Kennedy said I overstressed the Shuttle, so I had to prove to them I didn’t overstress it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prove it to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got me an ops engineer, and we went out and got all the data on what it is. The gear can’t stand more than 40,000 pounds to pull on. Well, the T500 torque converter would give up at 25,000 pounds, so there was no way in hell we could pull any harder on that gear, because the torque converter and the transmission in the T500 wouldn’t pull it. I had to get the tug people to give me that data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They believed you, once you showed them the data?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 23.34879413517396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, when they had the flat out there, they didn’t know what to do. I got my plywood out, and I made a little bridge, and I pulled the Shuttle gear up on there, and we took the brake, the brake came apart. Pulled the tire off, pulled the brake off. Put the tire back on, backed it down off. Kennedy said I overstressed the Shuttle, so I had to prove to them I didn’t overstress it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prove it to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got me an ops engineer, and we went out and got all the data on what it is. The gear can’t stand more than 40,000 pounds to pull on. Well, the T500 torque converter would give up at 25,000 pounds, so there was no way in hell we could pull any harder on that gear, because the torque converter and the transmission in the T500 wouldn’t pull it. I had to get the tug people to give me that data."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They believed you, once you showed them the data?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you prepare for night landings, once they started, as compared to the day landings?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.599289948443772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why they always called. I wasn’t very smart, but I did simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you could work a problem and fix it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We call that “resourceful.”\n\nYes, that’s resourceful, that’s true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Tuntland, we worked pretty good together. Yes, so they adopted all that, the whole night landing configuration. Smith put it in, we got 35,000 bucks, the eight of us that developed that whole system, won a federal incentive award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that was the award I saw on your wall that the president had signed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:176", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.258382652399717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Tuntland, we worked pretty good together. Yes, so they adopted all that, the whole night landing configuration. Smith put it in, we got 35,000 bucks, the eight of us that developed that whole system, won a federal incentive award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that was the award I saw on your wall that the president had signed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I got 4,000 bucks for the reflectors, and I got 4,000 bucks as incentive, suggestions. Mike put all those in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a good guy. Navy man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, right? Your area, were you responsible for the microwave scanning beam landing system, the PAPI [Precision Approach Path Indicator] lights, and everything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.398202947110796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and I got 4,000 bucks for the reflectors, and I got 4,000 bucks as incentive, suggestions. Mike put all those in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a good guy. Navy man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, right? Your area, were you responsible for the microwave scanning beam landing system, the PAPI [Precision Approach Path Indicator] lights, and everything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all that. It was my idea to put the PAPI lights on the trailer, because we had to take them off and on, off and on after every flight. Before, we had them on a steel thing, and we took them out with a truck and set them up. I said, “Oh, this is bull.” We got some little trailers, mounted them all on a trailer, and hauled them out there and set them up, made a procedure on how to align them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L] accident happened, were you out at work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.66466994123422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he was a good guy. Navy man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, right? Your area, were you responsible for the microwave scanning beam landing system, the PAPI [Precision Approach Path Indicator] lights, and everything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all that. It was my idea to put the PAPI lights on the trailer, because we had to take them off and on, off and on after every flight. Before, we had them on a steel thing, and we took them out with a truck and set them up. I said, “Oh, this is bull.” We got some little trailers, mounted them all on a trailer, and hauled them out there and set them up, made a procedure on how to align them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L] accident happened, were you out at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you at Kennedy?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 21.84963326803802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, all that. It was my idea to put the PAPI lights on the trailer, because we had to take them off and on, off and on after every flight. Before, we had them on a steel thing, and we took them out with a truck and set them up. I said, “Oh, this is bull.” We got some little trailers, mounted them all on a trailer, and hauled them out there and set them up, made a procedure on how to align them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When the [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L] accident happened, were you out at work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were you at Kennedy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were following STS-26 through processing. There was three of us. Jim [James R.] Phelps and Barnett, and I. None of us wanted to go, but we were—Milt with Jesse Owens, decided we were going. We went, and our job was to see if we could take 10 days out of processing an Orbiter, because it was taking them so long to process, by putting in flight test procedures. We followed 26 through the processing. In fact, we were supposed to do our out-briefing right after launch which, naturally, we didn’t do. But we could have taken 10 days, it was so cumbersome, the way their processes were done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that as a suggestion for them to take those 10 days out? You were there to help try to find those 10 days."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:192", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.314507050141442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We left immediately. Then we went back, I think, in a week, two weeks, and briefed out. When we went back, we told them we would not write a written report, we would do a verbal briefing. Everybody agreed to that, so we gave them a verbal briefing. It was just like I was telling you. All the things we found, and everything that was there.\\n\\n Gene [James A.] Thomas was there, and who was the Center Director then? The General [Forrest S. McCartney]. I can’t remember names anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s just a lot more names."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mentality between NACA and NASA, was completely different. I think NACA had a mission, and they got mission oriented completely. We’re going to get it done. NASA became more of a political animal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just a different way of doing business."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different funding, and, well, different missions, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during that time period between Challenger and STS-26, when it flew, the Return to Flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:194", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.905007833490491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The mentality between NACA and NASA, was completely different. I think NACA had a mission, and they got mission oriented completely. We’re going to get it done. NASA became more of a political animal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just a different way of doing business."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different funding, and, well, different missions, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during that time period between Challenger and STS-26, when it flew, the Return to Flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to keep most of the stuff going together. We were doing some of the 990 stuff, but then mostly just clearing everything up. We had the crew transport vehicle in, we had to get that one ready for it. Most of it was just covering your hiney. We had to go through all our own procedures, all our own paperwork, re-verify we were doing things right. It was pretty intense. In that same time, you couldn’t hurt them flying up there on the other end, because that was sort of my job, was to make sure none of the Shuttle went up in the flight test. I was supposed to keep all the Shuttle stuff away from flying airplanes. We had to get ready for Spacelab [reusable laboratory], we redid the facilities for processing all the equipment, and then DoD came in. You know, just that every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, how is that different, when those DoD flights flew, as compared to a regular one as far as your job, once it landed? Was it a completely different?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:196", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.561119814989435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different funding, and, well, different missions, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during that time period between Challenger and STS-26, when it flew, the Return to Flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to keep most of the stuff going together. We were doing some of the 990 stuff, but then mostly just clearing everything up. We had the crew transport vehicle in, we had to get that one ready for it. Most of it was just covering your hiney. We had to go through all our own procedures, all our own paperwork, re-verify we were doing things right. It was pretty intense. In that same time, you couldn’t hurt them flying up there on the other end, because that was sort of my job, was to make sure none of the Shuttle went up in the flight test. I was supposed to keep all the Shuttle stuff away from flying airplanes. We had to get ready for Spacelab [reusable laboratory], we redid the facilities for processing all the equipment, and then DoD came in. You know, just that every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, how is that different, when those DoD flights flew, as compared to a regular one as far as your job, once it landed? Was it a completely different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to put up with the Air Force then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that spoken like a Navy man?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:198", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.179022016654927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to keep most of the stuff going together. We were doing some of the 990 stuff, but then mostly just clearing everything up. We had the crew transport vehicle in, we had to get that one ready for it. Most of it was just covering your hiney. We had to go through all our own procedures, all our own paperwork, re-verify we were doing things right. It was pretty intense. In that same time, you couldn’t hurt them flying up there on the other end, because that was sort of my job, was to make sure none of the Shuttle went up in the flight test. I was supposed to keep all the Shuttle stuff away from flying airplanes. We had to get ready for Spacelab [reusable laboratory], we redid the facilities for processing all the equipment, and then DoD came in. You know, just that every day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, how is that different, when those DoD flights flew, as compared to a regular one as far as your job, once it landed? Was it a completely different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to put up with the Air Force then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that spoken like a Navy man?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. The difference was the security, because the DoD packages, if you got around it, you had to have a clearance. They weren’t real big packages, usually. They were nothing like a Spacelab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it was quite different, because you never knew what was coming off of those Shuttles, whether it was going to be completely classified and top secret, or monkeys. There was quite a variety of things that came off the Shuttle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:200", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.865580018505474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to put up with the Air Force then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that spoken like a Navy man?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. The difference was the security, because the DoD packages, if you got around it, you had to have a clearance. They weren’t real big packages, usually. They were nothing like a Spacelab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it was quite different, because you never knew what was coming off of those Shuttles, whether it was going to be completely classified and top secret, or monkeys. There was quite a variety of things that came off the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then a lot of it was, you just kept it in the Orbiter, and once it came down, and sort of during the processing to get it ready to go back, and then DoD would come down and take it out at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything was taken out before they took the Orbiter back for processing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:202", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.62842224278386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. The difference was the security, because the DoD packages, if you got around it, you had to have a clearance. They weren’t real big packages, usually. They were nothing like a Spacelab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess it was quite different, because you never knew what was coming off of those Shuttles, whether it was going to be completely classified and top secret, or monkeys. There was quite a variety of things that came off the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then a lot of it was, you just kept it in the Orbiter, and once it came down, and sort of during the processing to get it ready to go back, and then DoD would come down and take it out at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything was taken out before they took the Orbiter back for processing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that until ’94?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:204", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.364913603093178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then a lot of it was, you just kept it in the Orbiter, and once it came down, and sort of during the processing to get it ready to go back, and then DoD would come down and take it out at night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything was taken out before they took the Orbiter back for processing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that until ’94?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then for a year, when I was at Aurora, but after that, then I ran the contract that was taking care of all of the equipment. Then I had some civil servant telling me what I should do and what I shouldn’t do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was a different experience for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:206", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.183237336770198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that until ’94?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Then for a year, when I was at Aurora, but after that, then I ran the contract that was taking care of all of the equipment. Then I had some civil servant telling me what I should do and what I shouldn’t do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was a different experience for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fun. I’ll show you a t-shirt, some of them said, “There ain’t nobody happy if Charlie’s not.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s funny. Were there any other memories of that time period, and beginning with when you first started out there, and moving on through your career? Is there anything you would think of or consider your proudest achievement, or what you really enjoyed the most?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:214", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.010116349291569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Everybody. Yes, it was a team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were a lot of the pilots like him, that they would explain more about what they were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as Neil, but most of them. [William H. “Bill”] Dana would. Joe [Joseph A.] Walker—yes, sometimes it depends on what it was. Like, he wanted a switch done, so to get it in, I would have had to auger out a piece of structure to get the switch to go which way, so hey, it switched this way, but you had to go upwards with a switch.\\n\\n I said, “Joe, how about this?”\\n\\n “Oh, no, man, my way or no way.”\\n\\n “I’m sorry sir.” So we got to go the other way. He was very boisterous, or he was vocal when he wanted something. Yes, there was a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, being test pilots, and the danger of their jobs, and then you did lose some. I imagine that affected everybody at the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially people working closely with those pilots."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:216", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.67790705476841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as much as Neil, but most of them. [William H. “Bill”] Dana would. Joe [Joseph A.] Walker—yes, sometimes it depends on what it was. Like, he wanted a switch done, so to get it in, I would have had to auger out a piece of structure to get the switch to go which way, so hey, it switched this way, but you had to go upwards with a switch.\\n\\n I said, “Joe, how about this?”\\n\\n “Oh, no, man, my way or no way.”\\n\\n “I’m sorry sir.” So we got to go the other way. He was very boisterous, or he was vocal when he wanted something. Yes, there was a lot of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, being test pilots, and the danger of their jobs, and then you did lose some. I imagine that affected everybody at the Center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially people working closely with those pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We couldn’t believe it when they tried to blame it on Joe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The 104 [accident with the North American XB-70]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:218", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.308785616409344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially people working closely with those pilots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We couldn’t believe it when they tried to blame it on Joe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The 104 [accident with the North American XB-70]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, wiped out the B-70. That was a bad day, too. You’d never know, either he slowed down, or they speeded up and he didn’t know. And it was all for taking pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take part in any of the social activities, or the athletic groups, the bowling team and the different things that people would get together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:220", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.009761796010382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We couldn’t believe it when they tried to blame it on Joe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The 104 [accident with the North American XB-70]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, wiped out the B-70. That was a bad day, too. You’d never know, either he slowed down, or they speeded up and he didn’t know. And it was all for taking pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take part in any of the social activities, or the athletic groups, the bowling team and the different things that people would get together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. When we first started, I would play softball, but we had a softball team, but not really. I took a part in a lot of the flight parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Johnson, they used to have splash-down parties after all the missions. Did they have that after the X-15 flights?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:222", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.788624217789313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, wiped out the B-70. That was a bad day, too. You’d never know, either he slowed down, or they speeded up and he didn’t know. And it was all for taking pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take part in any of the social activities, or the athletic groups, the bowling team and the different things that people would get together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. When we first started, I would play softball, but we had a softball team, but not really. I took a part in a lot of the flight parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Johnson, they used to have splash-down parties after all the missions. Did they have that after the X-15 flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, big time. There was always a flight party, 104, whatever the program was, if it had a good flight, you went and had a party. If you had a bad flight, you went and had a wake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Basically same thing, just call it something different."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:224", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.542915797543682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. When we first started, I would play softball, but we had a softball team, but not really. I took a part in a lot of the flight parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Johnson, they used to have splash-down parties after all the missions. Did they have that after the X-15 flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, big time. There was always a flight party, 104, whatever the program was, if it had a good flight, you went and had a party. If you had a bad flight, you went and had a wake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Basically same thing, just call it something different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Neil could chugalug a beer faster than everybody else, Jack McKay, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t his son work out there too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:226", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.269906441715202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, big time. There was always a flight party, 104, whatever the program was, if it had a good flight, you went and had a party. If you had a bad flight, you went and had a wake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Basically same thing, just call it something different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Neil could chugalug a beer faster than everybody else, Jack McKay, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t his son work out there too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He lives right down here. John."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he working when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:228", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.077673824128002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Neil could chugalug a beer faster than everybody else, Jack McKay, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t his son work out there too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He lives right down here. John."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he working when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he came down and helped me in the Shuttle area, first time. Then he became a branch chief, and then he didn’t like the politics, and he got his time in and retired. I couldn’t believe it. I tried to talk him out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably ran into some of the same things you were running into, I’m sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:230", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.975193137920002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He lives right down here. John."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he working when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he came down and helped me in the Shuttle area, first time. Then he became a branch chief, and then he didn’t like the politics, and he got his time in and retired. I couldn’t believe it. I tried to talk him out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably ran into some of the same things you were running into, I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. He couldn’t ignore it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions.\n\nI’ve got a couple of plane questions. You briefly talked about being an inspector on the SCA, the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft. Could you talk a little bit more about that, and when it first came online, and maybe what your thoughts were when you found out they were going to use it for transport?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.8613257088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he came down and helped me in the Shuttle area, first time. Then he became a branch chief, and then he didn’t like the politics, and he got his time in and retired. I couldn’t believe it. I tried to talk him out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably ran into some of the same things you were running into, I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. He couldn’t ignore it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Rebecca if she has any questions.\n\nI’ve got a couple of plane questions. You briefly talked about being an inspector on the SCA, the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft. Could you talk a little bit more about that, and when it first came online, and maybe what your thoughts were when you found out they were going to use it for transport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t here, then; I was here after the fact. Herb Anderson, bless is soul, was the ops engineer from Dryden that was on that airplane when they modified it and did all that. When I came back, I went down to Flying Tigers, and went through flight engineer school, really, which you learn everything, the panel and all this stuff, then I was qualified to go inspect it. You’d crawl up the tail and inspect all this. All you’re doing is—the crew did it, and you’re just verifying that they did it right. But I could start it, and if I’d have had to.\\n\\n Someplace along the line Dryden quit inspecting the airplane and Johnson took care of all the responsibility. The guys would do their job, and then a flight engineer would come out before you flew it, and he would go through and inspect it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole Mate-Demate, the whole mating system."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1897472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the MDD. That, the hanger, everything inside the fences, plus all the rolling stock. Plus the MDD. Plus the MSBLS [Microwave Scanning Beam Landing System] the landing aids, the lights, battery shop, the labs. The astronauts’ trailer, when they’d come in. Just all the support branch. I just had to see that it was done, so I knew who did this, who did that, and I had to coordinate between facilities, that they had the hangar right, and the fire systems worked, and the fire pumps worked, and all this good stuff. I didn’t do it all, I just had to see that it was done. But if it didn’t get done, I’d do it myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s quite an operation, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And the thing is, you had to see it all done, but you really didn’t have the big bang. When I first went down there, it was such a battle all the time. I went back and I told Milt, “Dryden can’t do this. They’ll eat us alive, Milt. Let us just support them.” Then after that, everything started going smooth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started out there, I would imagine there weren’t any women working in your area at all. Did that change over time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. The women worked tool crib, they worked procurement, they worked the personnel, and secretaries, the libraries. We didn’t have any aircraft mechanics, women aircraft mechanics until the ’70s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work, as far as that environment being such a male-dominated field, and then having women come in? Did that create any issues, or was it relatively smooth, as long as they did their job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.988608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. And the thing is, you had to see it all done, but you really didn’t have the big bang. When I first went down there, it was such a battle all the time. I went back and I told Milt, “Dryden can’t do this. They’ll eat us alive, Milt. Let us just support them.” Then after that, everything started going smooth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started out there, I would imagine there weren’t any women working in your area at all. Did that change over time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. The women worked tool crib, they worked procurement, they worked the personnel, and secretaries, the libraries. We didn’t have any aircraft mechanics, women aircraft mechanics until the ’70s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work, as far as that environment being such a male-dominated field, and then having women come in? Did that create any issues, or was it relatively smooth, as long as they did their job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ones that proved themselves, yes. The ones that didn’t, yes, it was tough on them. They’d usually get moved to a non-critical position of some kind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The other question I had for you, in your early days, when your teams were so close with the X-planes, were you able to teach the pilots what to listen for when they were up there? How were you able to do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00939:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 8.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew they were all doing a good job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were all good guys. There were some that, personality, your personalities didn’t click too much. The Air Force—we were lower because we were civil servants. If we’d have been master sergeant or something, which is the crew, they’d have given you a little more. Just like [Charles E. “Chuck”] Yeager hated NASA. He’d come over and be showing someone something, and he’d say, “Well, what do you think they’re doing?” I heard him tell this senator, or whoever he was, “Oh, they don’t know what in the hell they’re doing. Lucky they get it together.” That’s how bad he hated us.\\n\\n I’ll tell you another little story if you want to listen to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marty Knutson was a [Lockheed] U-2 pilot. I don’t know if you knew about Marty or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’ve read a little bit about it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00469:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess the first thing that I was really concerned about was [Neil A.] Armstrong was dilly-dallying around out there, and he wasn't coming down, and we got run out of propellant. I thought he ought to get that thing on the ground, but he was just as cool as an icicle, and when we had thirteen seconds worth of propellant or something like that left when he touched down, not very much. But once we got down, I had all the confidence in the world that we were going to be able to make it back home.\\n\\n By that time, I had a lot of confidence in the hardware that I was responsible for. I thought we would lose an RCS engine or two on some of the programs, or some of the flights. I didn't expect them to be all totally error-free. The pyrotechnics I had a great deal of confidence in that hardware all working exactly the way it was supposed to. So, from my standpoint, I thought we were ready to go to the Moon, and I thought it would be successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the night when it landed, we had people walking—I came driving down NASA Road 1 here that evening, or my wife did, and we just had to poke along because those streets were just solid people, wall to wall people. You were threading your car down through people just walking across the road everywheres out there. Everybody was celebrating. When I got off work, I went out and went home, and my wife had the car loaded and we put the kids in it and pulled out to the country. So I didn't go to any of the celebrations. I just went to the country and relaxed for a while, because it had been a long, long two weeks, not much sleep. Matter of fact, I lay down in the back of the station wagon and went to sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of your work had been done to that point. You kind of had to watch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else from the Apollo era that stands out in your mind, that you have special memories of?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00469:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.24, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the night when it landed, we had people walking—I came driving down NASA Road 1 here that evening, or my wife did, and we just had to poke along because those streets were just solid people, wall to wall people. You were threading your car down through people just walking across the road everywheres out there. Everybody was celebrating. When I got off work, I went out and went home, and my wife had the car loaded and we put the kids in it and pulled out to the country. So I didn't go to any of the celebrations. I just went to the country and relaxed for a while, because it had been a long, long two weeks, not much sleep. Matter of fact, I lay down in the back of the station wagon and went to sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of your work had been done to that point. You kind of had to watch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else from the Apollo era that stands out in your mind, that you have special memories of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I think that's another one of those that I need to just go back and reflect on and think about a little bit, and maybe we could touch on it some later date a little bit, because it's been a long time, and a lot of water run under the bridge since those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We're kind of at a good stopping point before we go into Shuttle, but before we end, I'd like to ask Tim and Carol if they have any questions. Do you have any questions, Carol?\n\nI have one question. You were talking about the pyrotechnics briefly there and that you had a lot of confidence in that system. Then looking at Apollo 12, when the rocket launched and it was hit by lightning on the launch and all the rest of the systems were able to be checked out, but the parachutes and the pyrotechnics for releasing the parachutes, there was some concern about that. Were you involved at all in that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00469:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 212 of them on every flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have one last question. You mentioned that on Apollo 11, you wanted Neil to put it down, land it, but where were you at the time? Were you in the Control Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in Building 45 in the MER [Mission Evaluation Room]. You know, Engineering had their own little room over in Building 45 over there, and we called it the Mission Evaluation Room. That's where most of the engineering took place, and things fed back and forth. I was in there. I was in there for nearly all of the Apollo flights, pulled a shift in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you.\n\nTim, no questions? Is there anything you'd like to say in conclusion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess the one thing that I could say is that in the entire history of humankind, there have been very, very few people in this world that had the opportunity to work on a project such as the Apollo Program and to have as much fun in their career doing the kinds of things that they wanted to do as I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. It was great to be able to say that at the end of your career, to say that you enjoyed it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00945:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 44.27249010779166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I went to, of course, a lot of meetings. We were talking at the time, on Echo, we had to fit the Echo into a launch system, so I had a lot of dealings with universities, a lot of dealings with the aerospace companies, and a lot of dealings with the other Centers, because the other Centers, even on the Scout, the Johnson Center—well, I had a lot of dealings with Wernher von Braun and his people at the time. As a matter of fact, Headquarters wanted to transfer the Scout because—this was before NASA—wanted to transfer it to Houston. So Thompson sent me down to Houston to talk to von Braun about it.\\n\\n Well, von Braun had this conference room and welcomed me graciously, and he had all of his head-knockers sitting around the table, and behind them was their American counterpart—all [the principles were] German that time, and behind them were their American counterpart. When I made my presentation as what a great system this was, how cheap it was, what all this could accomplish, he said, \"Well, I don't think this is quite the scale of the thing we are going to be doing here,\" and he said, \"But we'll take a vote on it.\" Well, they went around, you know how that came out. That was unanimous. So I went back with my tail between my legs, and the Scout stayed at Langley throughout its history, [which in retrospect was a very good decision]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Scout Program, you were using off the shelf products. Is that correct, to create the Scout?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first stage was a new contract. The second stage was a military missile. And the third stage was a military missile. The fourth stage was a new contract, so half of it was military missiles, and half of it was new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually worked with the contractor and had a long relationship with LTV Missiles and Electronics Group of Dallas that worked on the Scout?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like, that relationship of working with a contractor developing that program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00945:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 48.08054456421296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first stage was a new contract. The second stage was a military missile. And the third stage was a military missile. The fourth stage was a new contract, so half of it was military missiles, and half of it was new."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You actually worked with the contractor and had a long relationship with LTV Missiles and Electronics Group of Dallas that worked on the Scout?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like, that relationship of working with a contractor developing that program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at times, it was a little testy, because we had lots of problems. First of all, we were new in project management of a major system like this. We learned as we’d go along. A fellow named Bill [William E.] Stoney [Jr.] was a co-Project Manager with me. I handled all the contracts and all the business arrangements, and he handled all the trajectory work and all that. I've lost my thought, I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. We were just talking about working with the contractors and how difficult that was at times."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00945:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 53.42282729356995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that like, that relationship of working with a contractor developing that program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at times, it was a little testy, because we had lots of problems. First of all, we were new in project management of a major system like this. We learned as we’d go along. A fellow named Bill [William E.] Stoney [Jr.] was a co-Project Manager with me. I handled all the contracts and all the business arrangements, and he handled all the trajectory work and all that. I've lost my thought, I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. We were just talking about working with the contractors and how difficult that was at times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot less difficult in those days than it was later on. They were willing to do almost anything to get in the business. For example, the contract that Ling-Temco-Vought gave us for the Scout, I'm sure it cost them twice as much to make the first Scout as what they got out of it, but it was worth it to them. They made it up later on because of repeat business. This was true of most of the companies in those days. They were perfectly willing to take a chance at very little dollars just to get in the business and establish their place in the space market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The STG [Space Task Group] was forming during that same time period, and you mentioned that you were asked by Bob Gilruth to join it, but you decided to stay. When you stayed, what were you thinking you were going to be doing, and how did your career follow after that time before you went to Headquarters? What positions were you in at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00945:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.1322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was just lucky to start out in its infancy, when we really had a blank check to do something. To go to the Moon. That will never happen again. Everybody since then, every President, said, \"Well, we're going to give them another blank check. Go to Mars.\" That gets about that far, and then the money gets cut off. That's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your entire career with the NACA, and then again with NASA, is there anything that stands out in your mind as the most challenging time of your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the most challenging time was when I was [Acting] Associate Administrator of the [NASA] research organization, OAST, and Associate Administrator [for Management for NASA]. The headquarters time. That was the most challenging. Every 15 minutes of the day was scheduled. I mean, it was a high-stress; [however], I'm not a high-stress person. I didn't let it bother me, but that's just the way the jobs at that level are [by design]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that stands out in your mind of maybe a project or something that you worked on that you're most proud of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can think of a lot of them that I enjoyed. I'm not sure about one that I'm most proud of. The Scout, I loved that. I loved Echo. The system for evaluating people for NASA. The system I set up for training people—we've got a school at Wallops that trained people, I set that up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that? What type of school did you set up at Wallops?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00945:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, very close. When I was the Associate Administrator, all of the Centers reported to me, so I had a lot of meetings with Chris and all the other Center Directors. Matter of fact, we had Center Director meetings a couple times a year, where they all came to Headquarters and we all got together. They didn't like them, but [we needed to bring the agency closer together by sharing ideas]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to see old friends and classmates?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yeah. As I said, Bob Thompson was the head of the Space Shuttle. Have you met Bob?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we have.\n\nHe still plays golf. Can't get him to play tennis anymore.\n\nWell, that's all I have. Thank you.\n\nThis has been very helpful. Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you wanted to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there are probably a lot of things, but I can't think of them now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We appreciate you taking your time out and talking to us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00895:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.771412515307894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Events? Can you give me a hint? What kind of event?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Things like NASA administrators, new NASA administrators, or presidential administrations, 9/11 [September 11, 2001], something like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, events, events. Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin faster, better, cheaper, breaking apart the platforms. That was a huge event, and an unfortunate event, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why would you say that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I think again it broke the time series. There’s no home for MODIS [Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer] right now. MODIS was supposed to go to VIIRS [Visible Infrared Imaging Radiometer Suite]. That didn’t happen. I think if you look at a lot of the platforms and the measurement sets that were supposed to be continued, that became much harder to continue.\\n\\n Other big events. I think IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change], just the nature of the IPCC assessments. That’s a series of events, but its formation really brought the assessment process into a much more mainstream regular part. I think it’s hard to keep the effort up. It tends to become assessment for assessment’s sake. But it does capture people’s attention both in the public and the political sectors as well as in the scientific community. I think that that’s really kept Earth systems in the fore.\\n\\n I should be able to think of more than that. But those are the ones that come to mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The big ones. Are there any major elements that you see today in terms of Earth System Science that have shaped its current direction?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00895:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 51.968236128119884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, events, events. Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin faster, better, cheaper, breaking apart the platforms. That was a huge event, and an unfortunate event, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why would you say that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I think again it broke the time series. There’s no home for MODIS [Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer] right now. MODIS was supposed to go to VIIRS [Visible Infrared Imaging Radiometer Suite]. That didn’t happen. I think if you look at a lot of the platforms and the measurement sets that were supposed to be continued, that became much harder to continue.\\n\\n Other big events. I think IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change], just the nature of the IPCC assessments. That’s a series of events, but its formation really brought the assessment process into a much more mainstream regular part. I think it’s hard to keep the effort up. It tends to become assessment for assessment’s sake. But it does capture people’s attention both in the public and the political sectors as well as in the scientific community. I think that that’s really kept Earth systems in the fore.\\n\\n I should be able to think of more than that. But those are the ones that come to mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The big ones. Are there any major elements that you see today in terms of Earth System Science that have shaped its current direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Major elements. I think we still haven’t gotten the commitment to a long term observing system. That’s just not there. What we’ve got is a NOAA operational mission that really is focused on a permanent presence in space to meet short term forecasting needs, which is fine and good. You’ve got NASA, which is a research agency and really can’t afford to commit forever. It wants to do new things. It’s a science agency. So the two of those have not come to an agreement yet, in part because the nation hasn’t come to an agreement. The federal government hasn’t decided how to do that. Repeat that question for me again. I had another idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any key elements you think that have shaped the current direction?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00895:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 49.04144792765308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yes. I think if there was one other event in Earth System Science, it didn’t get the human dimension. Probably because it was such a cultural gap between social science and physical science. They tried. The latest IPCC assessment tried to get in adaptation. That’s really what people are asking for now, is how do I adapt. We’re still focusing on the mitigation side intensely. Climate change is going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just shifting gears a little bit, are there any decisions that you made that have impacted the current direction of Earth System Science?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made sure there was a fluorescence band on MODIS. I guess I could say that was one thing. I don’t know. I think I was a young assistant professor when that all started. I think that there were a lot of folks. People like Dixon [M. Butler] and Shelby [G. Tilford] and Stan. They were the ones who were making the frontline decisions. But there were a lot of us down in the trenches. It was a generation that really bought into that vision. Mark [R.] Schoeberl and I always joke that we were known as the evil twins because we were always confused as to which Mark was which, because we both had mustaches at the time. We’d sit next to each other and confuse the project scientist. He would always call one of us the other’s name. There was a whole cadre of young scientists who came in and really bought into that vision, that interdisciplinary vision, that integrated view of the Earth as a system. So I think it was a collective decision, not just a bunch of individuals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even with your involvement in Mission to Planet Earth, you were the chief scientist there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what my research [indicates]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00895:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 52.26827547517009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made sure there was a fluorescence band on MODIS. I guess I could say that was one thing. I don’t know. I think I was a young assistant professor when that all started. I think that there were a lot of folks. People like Dixon [M. Butler] and Shelby [G. Tilford] and Stan. They were the ones who were making the frontline decisions. But there were a lot of us down in the trenches. It was a generation that really bought into that vision. Mark [R.] Schoeberl and I always joke that we were known as the evil twins because we were always confused as to which Mark was which, because we both had mustaches at the time. We’d sit next to each other and confuse the project scientist. He would always call one of us the other’s name. There was a whole cadre of young scientists who came in and really bought into that vision, that interdisciplinary vision, that integrated view of the Earth as a system. So I think it was a collective decision, not just a bunch of individuals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even with your involvement in Mission to Planet Earth, you were the chief scientist there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what my research [indicates]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. No. Yet another long sad story. That all got announced. I was going to go back and work with Charlie [Charles F.] Kennel. The lawyers stepped in, because I still had an active research program at OSU [Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you how did that work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00895:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 58.07586163907788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what my research [indicates]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. No. Yet another long sad story. That all got announced. I was going to go back and work with Charlie [Charles F.] Kennel. The lawyers stepped in, because I still had an active research program at OSU [Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you how did that work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That didn’t. I stayed at OSU, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think are some of the greatest accomplishments that you’ve seen over these past 20 years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00895:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 57.862068487864306, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. No. Yet another long sad story. That all got announced. I was going to go back and work with Charlie [Charles F.] Kennel. The lawyers stepped in, because I still had an active research program at OSU [Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you how did that work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That didn’t. I stayed at OSU, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think are some of the greatest accomplishments that you’ve seen over these past 20 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The greatest accomplishments. There are an awful lot. I think you saw a lot of them today. I think you’ll see some more tomorrow. The whole ocean circulation from ocean altimetry has just revolutionized our understanding of ocean circulation, ocean color, the basin scale changes, the hints of looking at fluorescence to understand phytoplankton physiology. I’m sure if you could talk to an atmospheric science or a land person, it’s the time series that are the biggest ones, the biggest change or had the biggest impact.\\n\\n The second is in some sense what Waleed [Abdalati] and others were talking about. It really opened up new windows to see new processes, like the polynya in the Weddell Sea, the change in the sea ice in the Arctic, all these things that we never could have seen any other way. [James A.] Yoder’s talk about productivity. So it’s hard to pick out one specific thing. I think if I was to just step back and say, “Okay, you’re a biological oceanographer, what’s the biggest thing?” I would say it’s the mesoscale ocean eddies and their impacts on ocean biology. So those are the 20-to-200-kilometer scale circulation features and how that drives ocean ecosystems because of the way they upwell and downwell nutrients, supply nutrients into the lighted zone.\\n\\n There are tons of others, but those are the ones I’ll just say right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think there were any major missed opportunities?"}]}