[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] 1961 August, August. I understand that our group was the number nine to go and training and number seven to go overseas where we were posted.

[Assistant] Seventh to go to Pakistan?

[User] I'm sorry?

[Assistant] Seventh to go to Pakistan?

[User]
Yeah, seven to go.

No, the seventh to leave the US. First group in Pakistan.

First number nine to the training and seven to go overseas where I'm at the posting.

[Assistant] What was training like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sorry?

[Assistant] Seventh to go to Pakistan?

[User]
Yeah, seven to go.

No, the seventh to leave the US. First group in Pakistan.

First number nine to the training and seven to go overseas where I'm at the posting.

[Assistant] What was training like?

[User] Oh my training was like your language lab. I don't remember this one lavatory about two hours in the language club then classroom work. And we were of course briefed on the history of Pakistan culture. We still have like the Asian fascism, capitalism, socialism and all that good. And then we had the physical training, swimming, and I mean, they poured in and we had a rough riding. At the end of the day, they expect me to care for the stadium, the roads we get run

[Assistant] Run up the chairs and down the chairs.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh my training was like your language lab. I don't remember this one lavatory about two hours in the language club then classroom work. And we were of course briefed on the history of Pakistan culture. We still have like the Asian fascism, capitalism, socialism and all that good. And then we had the physical training, swimming, and I mean, they poured in and we had a rough riding. At the end of the day, they expect me to care for the stadium, the roads we get run

[Assistant] Run up the chairs and down the chairs.

[User] I was of the day, you know, stairs. And that was just in for college. And then after that, we had a selection. There were 20 or 30 or 32. There were thirty two of us who were invited between me and four were the same thing.

[Assistant] How many?

[User] Four, four, three, two.

[Assistant] Ok, you were one of four.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was of the day, you know, stairs. And that was just in for college. And then after that, we had a selection. There were 20 or 30 or 32. There were thirty two of us who were invited between me and four were the same thing.

[Assistant] How many?

[User] Four, four, three, two.

[Assistant] Ok, you were one of four.

[User]
No, no. He was, four were deselected. Four of them were bumped.

And after that training we had about one week to go to her home course. My case, I went to high and then after that were we to Puerto Rico for the whole day kind of feeling this very day like this physical conditioning, conditioning.

[Assistant] Um, how long was training the first one?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Four, four, three, two.

[Assistant] Ok, you were one of four.

[User]
No, no. He was, four were deselected. Four of them were bumped.

And after that training we had about one week to go to her home course. My case, I went to high and then after that were we to Puerto Rico for the whole day kind of feeling this very day like this physical conditioning, conditioning.

[Assistant] Um, how long was training the first one?

[User] The first part of training?

[Assistant] Yeah. How long was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
No, no. He was, four were deselected. Four of them were bumped.

And after that training we had about one week to go to her home course. My case, I went to high and then after that were we to Puerto Rico for the whole day kind of feeling this very day like this physical conditioning, conditioning.

[Assistant] Um, how long was training the first one?

[User] The first part of training?

[Assistant] Yeah. How long was it?

[User] Hmm. They started in August and we went up to August, September, I think mid-October. Yeah, but the thing about mid October, birthmothers, OK, and we spent one one month in in Puerto Rico, more land restringing and there is a bit less physical conditioning.

[Assistant] What did you do in physical condition?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The first part of training?

[Assistant] Yeah. How long was it?

[User] Hmm. They started in August and we went up to August, September, I think mid-October. Yeah, but the thing about mid October, birthmothers, OK, and we spent one one month in in Puerto Rico, more land restringing and there is a bit less physical conditioning.

[Assistant] What did you do in physical condition?

[User] Oh, running. And we ran and ran. And I get to do I don't know. But up here, I don't know how long to room. I was going to kneel down and then we will be so quick. Rob. Well, training was a privilege. No problem. I think you need university in your research camp and you know that I consider the premier to your arm. And he swam for two hours.

[Assistant] They tie your arms and you swam for two hours.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the route. And then I decide where they were supposed to cross the lake where the water was. I guess, like, I don't know what we're going to least it's going to get in the way recently. And when we report that actually when we we're walking back, people in the camp come out and we told them we are. And I said, you are not going to let me walk through that head. Yeah. When we got back to the camp for that, the guy who used to. Have you heard about the Bob? What's that? No, I thought this is a conditioning program that was initiated in England. People up and can make this happen or that they now can cut your own phone. So that Hanaway, he has said how to get you across the lake and the day. But I have the other thing. Why do we cross the lake with across the lake and the guy is done. His face turned red. I’ll always remember that. You won’t get too many points for this.

[Assistant] You didn’t cross the lake.

[User] They were supposed to take. You know what, if we followed, we were supposed to go on the other side of the lake and cross by boat. Yeah, because we think we've got to be sure. Yes. Have the boat and drinking beer.

[Assistant] That's a good one.

[User] At that time it was supposed to be dry season. But in November in Puerto Rico was supposed to be the dry season. Let me cut deals. Yeah. Rain, rain.

[Assistant] Lots of rain. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were supposed to take. You know what, if we followed, we were supposed to go on the other side of the lake and cross by boat. Yeah, because we think we've got to be sure. Yes. Have the boat and drinking beer.

[Assistant] That's a good one.

[User] At that time it was supposed to be dry season. But in November in Puerto Rico was supposed to be the dry season. Let me cut deals. Yeah. Rain, rain.

[Assistant] Lots of rain. Yeah.

[User] And what are they doing here? Get them back of the plane. Our language instructor in that girl again, she's the Pakistani woman and so freaking. I know. Met her in the swimming pool. I don't know how I and I, she made her job in particular. We did so well with her. Sorry. Oh sorry. Yeah. Because they don't crazy. Because they are not aware of that culture.

[Assistant] What was language training like? What was language training like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At that time it was supposed to be dry season. But in November in Puerto Rico was supposed to be the dry season. Let me cut deals. Yeah. Rain, rain.

[Assistant] Lots of rain. Yeah.

[User] And what are they doing here? Get them back of the plane. Our language instructor in that girl again, she's the Pakistani woman and so freaking. I know. Met her in the swimming pool. I don't know how I and I, she made her job in particular. We did so well with her. Sorry. Oh sorry. Yeah. Because they don't crazy. Because they are not aware of that culture.

[Assistant] What was language training like? What was language training like?

[User]
What was it like? What was it like? How was it?

I have to say something totally different of course could have happened, that sound, and it has no relation at all to Amy's or.

[Assistant] Ok, why did you think Peace Corps training was like this? Why did you think Peace Corps training was like this during your time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And what are they doing here? Get them back of the plane. Our language instructor in that girl again, she's the Pakistani woman and so freaking. I know. Met her in the swimming pool. I don't know how I and I, she made her job in particular. We did so well with her. Sorry. Oh sorry. Yeah. Because they don't crazy. Because they are not aware of that culture.

[Assistant] What was language training like? What was language training like?

[User]
What was it like? What was it like? How was it?

I have to say something totally different of course could have happened, that sound, and it has no relation at all to Amy's or.

[Assistant] Ok, why did you think Peace Corps training was like this? Why did you think Peace Corps training was like this during your time?

[User] The language. Well, you know why they to stay in power for a while, training the perfect volunteers chase after us. I don't know how certain they were trained. I like to maybe do a quick like in the country where, yes, you're working. Perhaps you'll get trained that way.

[Assistant] Yes, I did training in country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
What was it like? What was it like? How was it?

I have to say something totally different of course could have happened, that sound, and it has no relation at all to Amy's or.

[Assistant] Ok, why did you think Peace Corps training was like this? Why did you think Peace Corps training was like this during your time?

[User] The language. Well, you know why they to stay in power for a while, training the perfect volunteers chase after us. I don't know how certain they were trained. I like to maybe do a quick like in the country where, yes, you're working. Perhaps you'll get trained that way.

[Assistant] Yes, I did training in country.

[User] And I thought I'd try and make certain that many people are going to be trained in universities that are very familiar with the country. Like I've heard that throughout the program, these parents had to work in the Philippines, were trained in Hawaii, and they know that there are many Filipinos there. So we'll go be closer to the country. Yes. Well, in that case, we have to add to our training in the United States, which another month in Pakistan, in Peshawar, but in the language customs and visiting villages and so forth. And one of the things that I can always remember, one of the things that we were pointing out here is that you don't you don't shake hands with women. And I don't take a position that maybe where we were and we just took a step to that way, to the leaders of cognomen, I think, dataflow daughter. And so I said, man, yes. And when it came to time, I know I should begin by shaking hands. And so when I was married, they said they didn't know because we were told that you're you don't shake hands with women. Yes. But he was shaking hands with, you know, everybody. So I said quite, quite clearly.

[Assistant] Yeah. What when you when you went, how did you get to Pakistan? How did you get to Pakistan? How did you go to Pakistan from from Puerto Rico?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The language. Well, you know why they to stay in power for a while, training the perfect volunteers chase after us. I don't know how certain they were trained. I like to maybe do a quick like in the country where, yes, you're working. Perhaps you'll get trained that way.

[Assistant] Yes, I did training in country.

[User] And I thought I'd try and make certain that many people are going to be trained in universities that are very familiar with the country. Like I've heard that throughout the program, these parents had to work in the Philippines, were trained in Hawaii, and they know that there are many Filipinos there. So we'll go be closer to the country. Yes. Well, in that case, we have to add to our training in the United States, which another month in Pakistan, in Peshawar, but in the language customs and visiting villages and so forth. And one of the things that I can always remember, one of the things that we were pointing out here is that you don't you don't shake hands with women. And I don't take a position that maybe where we were and we just took a step to that way, to the leaders of cognomen, I think, dataflow daughter. And so I said, man, yes. And when it came to time, I know I should begin by shaking hands. And so when I was married, they said they didn't know because we were told that you're you don't shake hands with women. Yes. But he was shaking hands with, you know, everybody. So I said quite, quite clearly.

[Assistant] Yeah. What when you when you went, how did you get to Pakistan? How did you get to Pakistan? How did you go to Pakistan from from Puerto Rico?

[User] I'm sorry.

[Assistant] From Puerto Rico.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I thought I'd try and make certain that many people are going to be trained in universities that are very familiar with the country. Like I've heard that throughout the program, these parents had to work in the Philippines, were trained in Hawaii, and they know that there are many Filipinos there. So we'll go be closer to the country. Yes. Well, in that case, we have to add to our training in the United States, which another month in Pakistan, in Peshawar, but in the language customs and visiting villages and so forth. And one of the things that I can always remember, one of the things that we were pointing out here is that you don't you don't shake hands with women. And I don't take a position that maybe where we were and we just took a step to that way, to the leaders of cognomen, I think, dataflow daughter. And so I said, man, yes. And when it came to time, I know I should begin by shaking hands. And so when I was married, they said they didn't know because we were told that you're you don't shake hands with women. Yes. But he was shaking hands with, you know, everybody. So I said quite, quite clearly.

[Assistant] Yeah. What when you when you went, how did you get to Pakistan? How did you get to Pakistan? How did you go to Pakistan from from Puerto Rico?

[User] I'm sorry.

[Assistant] From Puerto Rico.

[User] About what?

[Assistant] How did you get to Pakistan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sorry.

[Assistant] From Puerto Rico.

[User] About what?

[Assistant] How did you get to Pakistan?

[User] Yeah, I that's right. We from from Puerto Rico to New York and back every time I wake up and I remember that also that they are not us. They made an announcement on their flag about Peace Corps volunteers or their flight going to Pakistan. Yes, that's America. And we had no you that a lot of us to look had, but that it was raining, you know, in Puerto Rico, we don't have a dry air. And they sang it and they you know, the things that we had. I'd like to have a note also. A couple got married and spent their honeymoon in Puerto Rico and escaping and they separated me, you know, and trading conditions and, uh, they got married. That's not something that we would like to have on your honeymoon. Was that normal for the only night and day in and day out? So, yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So I'm going back to one of the questions. What did you what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? What what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? Luggage?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About what?

[Assistant] How did you get to Pakistan?

[User] Yeah, I that's right. We from from Puerto Rico to New York and back every time I wake up and I remember that also that they are not us. They made an announcement on their flag about Peace Corps volunteers or their flight going to Pakistan. Yes, that's America. And we had no you that a lot of us to look had, but that it was raining, you know, in Puerto Rico, we don't have a dry air. And they sang it and they you know, the things that we had. I'd like to have a note also. A couple got married and spent their honeymoon in Puerto Rico and escaping and they separated me, you know, and trading conditions and, uh, they got married. That's not something that we would like to have on your honeymoon. Was that normal for the only night and day in and day out? So, yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So I'm going back to one of the questions. What did you what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? What what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? Luggage?

[User]
Like what did you put in your suitcase?

And I remember I remember I had one soap, shoes. Talk about the Reagan man, I think is 300 regular people like that, and I'm going to have to have

[Assistant] Did the Peace Corps give you anything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I that's right. We from from Puerto Rico to New York and back every time I wake up and I remember that also that they are not us. They made an announcement on their flag about Peace Corps volunteers or their flight going to Pakistan. Yes, that's America. And we had no you that a lot of us to look had, but that it was raining, you know, in Puerto Rico, we don't have a dry air. And they sang it and they you know, the things that we had. I'd like to have a note also. A couple got married and spent their honeymoon in Puerto Rico and escaping and they separated me, you know, and trading conditions and, uh, they got married. That's not something that we would like to have on your honeymoon. Was that normal for the only night and day in and day out? So, yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So I'm going back to one of the questions. What did you what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? What what did you pack for your Peace Corps service? Luggage?

[User]
Like what did you put in your suitcase?

And I remember I remember I had one soap, shoes. Talk about the Reagan man, I think is 300 regular people like that, and I'm going to have to have

[Assistant] Did the Peace Corps give you anything?

[User] No, no, no, really. But I'll post later on that plane in Paksitan.

[Assistant] Ok, let's see. What what did you think of Pakistan when you first arrived? Imagine you landed from the airplane, you went outside. What was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Like what did you put in your suitcase?

And I remember I remember I had one soap, shoes. Talk about the Reagan man, I think is 300 regular people like that, and I'm going to have to have

[Assistant] Did the Peace Corps give you anything?

[User] No, no, no, really. But I'll post later on that plane in Paksitan.

[Assistant] Ok, let's see. What what did you think of Pakistan when you first arrived? Imagine you landed from the airplane, you went outside. What was that like?

[User] I think that winning the public was my first impression, and then. Well, I think they need to be. We'll be you get time country that I guess we were there at the time when I read the WTC number, it was called No, we're not doing a great great anyway. And of course, because we are in the mountains close to the Khyber Pass. So and the House is, of course, very different than the one we saw there. Yeah, well, in a country state, medical personnel state that in the middle of my leg

[Assistant] You built the


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no, really. But I'll post later on that plane in Paksitan.

[Assistant] Ok, let's see. What what did you think of Pakistan when you first arrived? Imagine you landed from the airplane, you went outside. What was that like?

[User] I think that winning the public was my first impression, and then. Well, I think they need to be. We'll be you get time country that I guess we were there at the time when I read the WTC number, it was called No, we're not doing a great great anyway. And of course, because we are in the mountains close to the Khyber Pass. So and the House is, of course, very different than the one we saw there. Yeah, well, in a country state, medical personnel state that in the middle of my leg

[Assistant] You built the

[User]
Same thing as you know. OK, how about the people?

Yeah. How about the people that you saw?

The people get different caps that they have and you see them say any woman was Muslim. Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] What did people think of Americans? What did people think of Peace Corps volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that winning the public was my first impression, and then. Well, I think they need to be. We'll be you get time country that I guess we were there at the time when I read the WTC number, it was called No, we're not doing a great great anyway. And of course, because we are in the mountains close to the Khyber Pass. So and the House is, of course, very different than the one we saw there. Yeah, well, in a country state, medical personnel state that in the middle of my leg

[Assistant] You built the

[User]
Same thing as you know. OK, how about the people?

Yeah. How about the people that you saw?

The people get different caps that they have and you see them say any woman was Muslim. Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] What did people think of Americans? What did people think of Peace Corps volunteers?

[User] Wow. I think we were both like curiosity at that time. We were the first ones and not and that made him famous. I've seen no Americans, you know. But the people with whom we I see, and that is the one thing like that that any one might do, Dumarey the friendly. Who are basically the delegates, in my case, the people who have contests, curious, yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] What was what was your core group like? How many men and women? Education backgrounds.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Same thing as you know. OK, how about the people?

Yeah. How about the people that you saw?

The people get different caps that they have and you see them say any woman was Muslim. Yeah. Yeah.

[Assistant] What did people think of Americans? What did people think of Peace Corps volunteers?

[User] Wow. I think we were both like curiosity at that time. We were the first ones and not and that made him famous. I've seen no Americans, you know. But the people with whom we I see, and that is the one thing like that that any one might do, Dumarey the friendly. Who are basically the delegates, in my case, the people who have contests, curious, yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] What was what was your core group like? How many men and women? Education backgrounds.

[User] Yeah, let me just tell you that very I guess occurred to demeanor I grew up with we had six veterans, OK? Yeah, one was a nurse in Korea, one one million and got back to the two of us. Are you in the army? I mean, I tell you what, one is certainly Navy and Army. So now and so for us, the special case was a marine was a bricklayer. Well, we had. One librarian, the one who have the birds and we had a lab and nurses and teachers and there are three of us supposedly who are instructors in engineering.

[Assistant] Ok, so you went as an engineer instructor.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Wow. I think we were both like curiosity at that time. We were the first ones and not and that made him famous. I've seen no Americans, you know. But the people with whom we I see, and that is the one thing like that that any one might do, Dumarey the friendly. Who are basically the delegates, in my case, the people who have contests, curious, yes. Yeah.

[Assistant] What was what was your core group like? How many men and women? Education backgrounds.

[User] Yeah, let me just tell you that very I guess occurred to demeanor I grew up with we had six veterans, OK? Yeah, one was a nurse in Korea, one one million and got back to the two of us. Are you in the army? I mean, I tell you what, one is certainly Navy and Army. So now and so for us, the special case was a marine was a bricklayer. Well, we had. One librarian, the one who have the birds and we had a lab and nurses and teachers and there are three of us supposedly who are instructors in engineering.

[Assistant] Ok, so you went as an engineer instructor.

[User] One of them later on went to a different societies in Europe or guy, but I think grow up and go on a tour bus was staying behind in the Lahor politics and in my case and actually there was no need for us at the beginning. So we spent a lot of time getting to talking to our colleagues. And then I had to find something to go. I learned how to the do we classify books using the do we this way testing. So I sit at the library and think they'll find me a class to the piece that were just twice a week. Mm hmm. And so I had to find something to fill my time and the dates were kind of wasting. I was able to get the district to approve the construction of a school for girls instead of one. And then there was another bill is later on. I was able to get their. I call for the suspected killer. So so I spent my time in the village and after and I'm not picture,

[Assistant] How did you


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, let me just tell you that very I guess occurred to demeanor I grew up with we had six veterans, OK? Yeah, one was a nurse in Korea, one one million and got back to the two of us. Are you in the army? I mean, I tell you what, one is certainly Navy and Army. So now and so for us, the special case was a marine was a bricklayer. Well, we had. One librarian, the one who have the birds and we had a lab and nurses and teachers and there are three of us supposedly who are instructors in engineering.

[Assistant] Ok, so you went as an engineer instructor.

[User] One of them later on went to a different societies in Europe or guy, but I think grow up and go on a tour bus was staying behind in the Lahor politics and in my case and actually there was no need for us at the beginning. So we spent a lot of time getting to talking to our colleagues. And then I had to find something to go. I learned how to the do we classify books using the do we this way testing. So I sit at the library and think they'll find me a class to the piece that were just twice a week. Mm hmm. And so I had to find something to fill my time and the dates were kind of wasting. I was able to get the district to approve the construction of a school for girls instead of one. And then there was another bill is later on. I was able to get their. I call for the suspected killer. So so I spent my time in the village and after and I'm not picture,

[Assistant] How did you

[User] Our mission is to go the continued once a week. We had a teacher come to our village, which is the biggest nations in order. OK.

[Assistant] How did you get funding for, how did you get funding for the school for girls?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One of them later on went to a different societies in Europe or guy, but I think grow up and go on a tour bus was staying behind in the Lahor politics and in my case and actually there was no need for us at the beginning. So we spent a lot of time getting to talking to our colleagues. And then I had to find something to go. I learned how to the do we classify books using the do we this way testing. So I sit at the library and think they'll find me a class to the piece that were just twice a week. Mm hmm. And so I had to find something to fill my time and the dates were kind of wasting. I was able to get the district to approve the construction of a school for girls instead of one. And then there was another bill is later on. I was able to get their. I call for the suspected killer. So so I spent my time in the village and after and I'm not picture,

[Assistant] How did you

[User] Our mission is to go the continued once a week. We had a teacher come to our village, which is the biggest nations in order. OK.

[Assistant] How did you get funding for, how did you get funding for the school for girls?

[User] OK, we were supposed to get money and I was told by says and certainly our colleagues had told her how many troops who are getting what aid annually and at the high school. And let me tell you something I don't know, you know, how much we were getting paid to be held in Washington? No. Eighty dollars a month. OK, yeah. Yeah. How much were you paid in the Peace Corps? Yeah. What was being held in Washington April

[Assistant] After the exchange rate collapsed it was two hundred and fifty dollars?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] OK, we were supposed to get money and I was told by says and certainly our colleagues had told her how many troops who are getting what aid annually and at the high school. And let me tell you something I don't know, you know, how much we were getting paid to be held in Washington? No. Eighty dollars a month. OK, yeah. Yeah. How much were you paid in the Peace Corps? Yeah. What was being held in Washington April

[Assistant] After the exchange rate collapsed it was two hundred and fifty dollars?

[User] Two hundred and fifty.

[Assistant] Two fifty.

[User]
Ok, so that's a big change from eighty dollars.

But the question was how how did they get money to build a school for girls? Who paid to build a school for girls?

Oh you mean. You mean they were being constructed. Yes. Who play always to be funded by the money from the about they and I go I provided I like the political vision, but anyway they got get it done and they had this, that, that's where the money comes from. A little bit like a Lake County.

[Assistant] And then you were the engineer for the project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two hundred and fifty.

[Assistant] Two fifty.

[User]
Ok, so that's a big change from eighty dollars.

But the question was how how did they get money to build a school for girls? Who paid to build a school for girls?

Oh you mean. You mean they were being constructed. Yes. Who play always to be funded by the money from the about they and I go I provided I like the political vision, but anyway they got get it done and they had this, that, that's where the money comes from. A little bit like a Lake County.

[Assistant] And then you were the engineer for the project?

[User] The money doesn't go to the police went directly to the district and the village.

[Assistant] But you started this idea. You started the idea to build a school for girls?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Ok, so that's a big change from eighty dollars.

But the question was how how did they get money to build a school for girls? Who paid to build a school for girls?

Oh you mean. You mean they were being constructed. Yes. Who play always to be funded by the money from the about they and I go I provided I like the political vision, but anyway they got get it done and they had this, that, that's where the money comes from. A little bit like a Lake County.

[Assistant] And then you were the engineer for the project?

[User] The money doesn't go to the police went directly to the district and the village.

[Assistant] But you started this idea. You started the idea to build a school for girls?

[User] Uh. I wouldn't take the credit for thinking, but I certainly was a need there was a need for school for girls. So and at that time, the babies can get anything from the district to fund that. And our Peace Corps and the representative that then them take that. My role was like a bridge gate bridge between the Dalit and the and the district. And that's how we get the funds approved for appropriate for the school. But now but without or without my being there, they couldn't have done anything.

[Assistant] So what did people think about what did people think about a school for girls?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The money doesn't go to the police went directly to the district and the village.

[Assistant] But you started this idea. You started the idea to build a school for girls?

[User] Uh. I wouldn't take the credit for thinking, but I certainly was a need there was a need for school for girls. So and at that time, the babies can get anything from the district to fund that. And our Peace Corps and the representative that then them take that. My role was like a bridge gate bridge between the Dalit and the and the district. And that's how we get the funds approved for appropriate for the school. But now but without or without my being there, they couldn't have done anything.

[Assistant] So what did people think about what did people think about a school for girls?

[User] I'm sorry?

[Assistant] What do people think about a school for girls?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh. I wouldn't take the credit for thinking, but I certainly was a need there was a need for school for girls. So and at that time, the babies can get anything from the district to fund that. And our Peace Corps and the representative that then them take that. My role was like a bridge gate bridge between the Dalit and the and the district. And that's how we get the funds approved for appropriate for the school. But now but without or without my being there, they couldn't have done anything.

[Assistant] So what did people think about what did people think about a school for girls?

[User] I'm sorry?

[Assistant] What do people think about a school for girls?

[User] Yeah, and that's to say I think there are not as important my eyes as the boys, but in any time they realized that by having the ability to contribute to the well-being of the village. So these are they were interested in educating children. So we asked them.

[Assistant] Did you have any difficulties?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sorry?

[Assistant] What do people think about a school for girls?

[User] Yeah, and that's to say I think there are not as important my eyes as the boys, but in any time they realized that by having the ability to contribute to the well-being of the village. So these are they were interested in educating children. So we asked them.

[Assistant] Did you have any difficulties?

[User] That they

[Assistant] Have any difficulties on this project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and that's to say I think there are not as important my eyes as the boys, but in any time they realized that by having the ability to contribute to the well-being of the village. So these are they were interested in educating children. So we asked them.

[Assistant] Did you have any difficulties?

[User] That they

[Assistant] Have any difficulties on this project?

[User] Let people take?

[Assistant] Did you have any difficulties with that? With the project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That they

[Assistant] Have any difficulties on this project?

[User] Let people take?

[Assistant] Did you have any difficulties with that? With the project?

[User]
With the People Project project?

What were the challenges? What were the obstacles were to build it, to do your project, to build the school?

I had a time. I had to stabilize good grade. I mean, the rehabilitation with the district commissioner. And so fortunately, there was so much work I was working with who got in touch with the with the commissioner. So I had somebody working with me. What way to get that connection made, we were able to get the commission to approve construction of these two schools and days them out with a name like, of course, in this case, the very poorest, the labor. The only thing that the district had to pay for the materials once

You were the one who was working with you, I think that was a Pakistani was the guy who are working with you, talked about your work your way some

Way. And they don't know. And yeah, I don't know. I met a lot of people that you were working with. Who is who was it? I forgot what I mean when you coming with me to Singapore and a Pakistani delegation.

Where are you? Where is he from? Lahore. From the village. Was he from Lahore or from the village? You know,

From the village where I was from. Yeah.

[Assistant] How how did Peace Corps staff facilitate your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let people take?

[Assistant] Did you have any difficulties with that? With the project?

[User]
With the People Project project?

What were the challenges? What were the obstacles were to build it, to do your project, to build the school?

I had a time. I had to stabilize good grade. I mean, the rehabilitation with the district commissioner. And so fortunately, there was so much work I was working with who got in touch with the with the commissioner. So I had somebody working with me. What way to get that connection made, we were able to get the commission to approve construction of these two schools and days them out with a name like, of course, in this case, the very poorest, the labor. The only thing that the district had to pay for the materials once

You were the one who was working with you, I think that was a Pakistani was the guy who are working with you, talked about your work your way some

Way. And they don't know. And yeah, I don't know. I met a lot of people that you were working with. Who is who was it? I forgot what I mean when you coming with me to Singapore and a Pakistani delegation.

Where are you? Where is he from? Lahore. From the village. Was he from Lahore or from the village? You know,

From the village where I was from. Yeah.

[Assistant] How how did Peace Corps staff facilitate your service?

[User] I had a big secret that when I got there, the way I had. I think we had the wonderland of mostly one Pakistani who was working, and you always thought maturely, and then we have a Pakistani driver driver, but we did our way. We had to be. It's not like it's not like a man.

[Assistant] Well, we're crazy, the SUV. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
With the People Project project?

What were the challenges? What were the obstacles were to build it, to do your project, to build the school?

I had a time. I had to stabilize good grade. I mean, the rehabilitation with the district commissioner. And so fortunately, there was so much work I was working with who got in touch with the with the commissioner. So I had somebody working with me. What way to get that connection made, we were able to get the commission to approve construction of these two schools and days them out with a name like, of course, in this case, the very poorest, the labor. The only thing that the district had to pay for the materials once

You were the one who was working with you, I think that was a Pakistani was the guy who are working with you, talked about your work your way some

Way. And they don't know. And yeah, I don't know. I met a lot of people that you were working with. Who is who was it? I forgot what I mean when you coming with me to Singapore and a Pakistani delegation.

Where are you? Where is he from? Lahore. From the village. Was he from Lahore or from the village? You know,

From the village where I was from. Yeah.

[Assistant] How how did Peace Corps staff facilitate your service?

[User] I had a big secret that when I got there, the way I had. I think we had the wonderland of mostly one Pakistani who was working, and you always thought maturely, and then we have a Pakistani driver driver, but we did our way. We had to be. It's not like it's not like a man.

[Assistant] Well, we're crazy, the SUV. Yeah.

[User] Oh, I feel that like like like a Van Halen. He hey, I'm driving. Really, really. I'm driving for Bull. I get this call, OK.

[Assistant] And to go to class


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had a big secret that when I got there, the way I had. I think we had the wonderland of mostly one Pakistani who was working, and you always thought maturely, and then we have a Pakistani driver driver, but we did our way. We had to be. It's not like it's not like a man.

[Assistant] Well, we're crazy, the SUV. Yeah.

[User] Oh, I feel that like like like a Van Halen. He hey, I'm driving. Really, really. I'm driving for Bull. I get this call, OK.

[Assistant] And to go to class

[User] To work in the office.

[Assistant] Ok, um, it's. Were you assigned to a specific, I guess, living arrangement,


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I feel that like like like a Van Halen. He hey, I'm driving. Really, really. I'm driving for Bull. I get this call, OK.

[Assistant] And to go to class

[User] To work in the office.

[Assistant] Ok, um, it's. Were you assigned to a specific, I guess, living arrangement,

[User] Specific

[Assistant] Living space, like a house, or where did you stay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To work in the office.

[Assistant] Ok, um, it's. Were you assigned to a specific, I guess, living arrangement,

[User] Specific

[Assistant] Living space, like a house, or where did you stay?

[User] I'm sorry,

[Assistant] Where did you stay?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Specific

[Assistant] Living space, like a house, or where did you stay?

[User] I'm sorry,

[Assistant] Where did you stay?

[User] In the Peace Corps? Oh, yeah. We were assigned a specific thing. Would you call it that bungalow? In our case, it was a building inside the a college campus, animal husbandry. And and that's when went to the people there. Yeah, but that tree for four rooms and there was a bath and we had a one kitchen and. It's great to remember. He like making poor dining room is a break wall, brick building is called very low headquarters in order to go to work that way up here to go ahead and listen to the Cracklin. Yeah, I think we got to stop people like this. Yeah. You had this little so going and flat growth going somewhere. So I had to get to know Florida and that would be duo.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, what's


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sorry,

[Assistant] Where did you stay?

[User] In the Peace Corps? Oh, yeah. We were assigned a specific thing. Would you call it that bungalow? In our case, it was a building inside the a college campus, animal husbandry. And and that's when went to the people there. Yeah, but that tree for four rooms and there was a bath and we had a one kitchen and. It's great to remember. He like making poor dining room is a break wall, brick building is called very low headquarters in order to go to work that way up here to go ahead and listen to the Cracklin. Yeah, I think we got to stop people like this. Yeah. You had this little so going and flat growth going somewhere. So I had to get to know Florida and that would be duo.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, what's

[User] The one thing that was very interesting. I was kind of thinking about the living conditions. Everybody in Pakistan has certain what you call servants assigned to them. Yes. This was the kind of animal husbandry, but still they'd have that kind of thing coming, that there was a sweeper and there was a laundry. There will be Wollar. But we they've been able to do his own laundry and that there was a on there was the cook. Joseph Yes. Yeah. It was very, very good guy.

[Assistant] What was your typical work and leisure day?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the Peace Corps? Oh, yeah. We were assigned a specific thing. Would you call it that bungalow? In our case, it was a building inside the a college campus, animal husbandry. And and that's when went to the people there. Yeah, but that tree for four rooms and there was a bath and we had a one kitchen and. It's great to remember. He like making poor dining room is a break wall, brick building is called very low headquarters in order to go to work that way up here to go ahead and listen to the Cracklin. Yeah, I think we got to stop people like this. Yeah. You had this little so going and flat growth going somewhere. So I had to get to know Florida and that would be duo.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, what's

[User] The one thing that was very interesting. I was kind of thinking about the living conditions. Everybody in Pakistan has certain what you call servants assigned to them. Yes. This was the kind of animal husbandry, but still they'd have that kind of thing coming, that there was a sweeper and there was a laundry. There will be Wollar. But we they've been able to do his own laundry and that there was a on there was the cook. Joseph Yes. Yeah. It was very, very good guy.

[Assistant] What was your typical work and leisure day?

[User] Like I say,

[Assistant] What was your typical work and leisure day like a normal day?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The one thing that was very interesting. I was kind of thinking about the living conditions. Everybody in Pakistan has certain what you call servants assigned to them. Yes. This was the kind of animal husbandry, but still they'd have that kind of thing coming, that there was a sweeper and there was a laundry. There will be Wollar. But we they've been able to do his own laundry and that there was a on there was the cook. Joseph Yes. Yeah. It was very, very good guy.

[Assistant] What was your typical work and leisure day?

[User] Like I say,

[Assistant] What was your typical work and leisure day like a normal day?

[User] Very typical work. Yeah. I mean, my I say no.

[Assistant] You wake up in the morning, you wake up in the morning and


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Or how am I wrong to think. Well OK. Yeah, I have later on one of the volunteers like we had the first time he was able to expose the, you know, the African-American boys with boy. I'm sure that I don't want to feel that way too, that they're not way that girls in my case have been exposed to African-Americans when I was in the service.

And they were all stationed someplace else, they were they were scattered all over Pakistan, so they had different kinds of experiences.

[Assistant] So you said you said you bike to work on your bicycle, to work?

[User]
On an antique, and you might be it, because one way they like what the terror of straight people is, that I was wrapping up my Sunday headed guy and at the time that I was hit actually a minute and I got caught. And I just think I'm naming your first date. I can almost hear people. And again, in the Gary days, I got hit there and my my best friend was quick. Yeah. So the good thing about going one time I was riding a stick to walk to work and I could really keep track of those gabbling. What was that again. Sorry about. Of which could mean I get a good time with that.

Was that with the tonga or with the oxcart?

Unless there was a cut cut cut know was going, I would have to but you know, I was going to get that a great you know.

Right that right there I was there, you know. Yeah. So I had visualizes is different types of vehicles on the street. And you had this horse drawn carriages which were one thing, those controls, the tongas were the horse drawn carriage. And then they had this big bullock carts that were carry the heavy loads and they were just lumber along and you could not stop them. They take the whole width of the street sometimes.

[Assistant] How many horses, how many were they motorized or?

[User] Ok, so they were they were they were pulled by oxen. They were scary. Yeah, they were really scary.

[Assistant] So you ride your bike to work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
On an antique, and you might be it, because one way they like what the terror of straight people is, that I was wrapping up my Sunday headed guy and at the time that I was hit actually a minute and I got caught. And I just think I'm naming your first date. I can almost hear people. And again, in the Gary days, I got hit there and my my best friend was quick. Yeah. So the good thing about going one time I was riding a stick to walk to work and I could really keep track of those gabbling. What was that again. Sorry about. Of which could mean I get a good time with that.

Was that with the tonga or with the oxcart?

Unless there was a cut cut cut know was going, I would have to but you know, I was going to get that a great you know.

Right that right there I was there, you know. Yeah. So I had visualizes is different types of vehicles on the street. And you had this horse drawn carriages which were one thing, those controls, the tongas were the horse drawn carriage. And then they had this big bullock carts that were carry the heavy loads and they were just lumber along and you could not stop them. They take the whole width of the street sometimes.

[Assistant] How many horses, how many were they motorized or?

[User] Ok, so they were they were they were pulled by oxen. They were scary. Yeah, they were really scary.

[Assistant] So you ride your bike to work?

[User] Yeah, no, I was there when I'm driving to work there. That I mean, right. Riding to work

[Assistant] And then lunch or what happened at work and what happened at work. What did you do at work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ok, so they were they were they were pulled by oxen. They were scary. Yeah, they were really scary.

[Assistant] So you ride your bike to work?

[User] Yeah, no, I was there when I'm driving to work there. That I mean, right. Riding to work

[Assistant] And then lunch or what happened at work and what happened at work. What did you do at work?

[User] I put what I consider to be Pape's class. And between my drink day with and talk with the guys in English or anything like that. And I'm drunk that completely. And and they pay bills always with me. I can still there. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Yes. But they always make good when I was making Essentialness and they always with me.

[Assistant] What did you eat for lunch?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, no, I was there when I'm driving to work there. That I mean, right. Riding to work

[Assistant] And then lunch or what happened at work and what happened at work. What did you do at work?

[User] I put what I consider to be Pape's class. And between my drink day with and talk with the guys in English or anything like that. And I'm drunk that completely. And and they pay bills always with me. I can still there. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Yes. But they always make good when I was making Essentialness and they always with me.

[Assistant] What did you eat for lunch?

[User] I don't know, and I think I think we go back to the Howard government. I know you also had some last minute make, of course, certain data about the third place. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So was Pepita and. I'd like to tell you another story, but there are, of course, I mean, if I put an. They're back for the celebration of life coping, go to sleep thinking about me, you know, and they thought that we were having a meltdown and the sadness and

[Assistant] That's the guilt


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I put what I consider to be Pape's class. And between my drink day with and talk with the guys in English or anything like that. And I'm drunk that completely. And and they pay bills always with me. I can still there. Yes. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Yes. But they always make good when I was making Essentialness and they always with me.

[Assistant] What did you eat for lunch?

[User] I don't know, and I think I think we go back to the Howard government. I know you also had some last minute make, of course, certain data about the third place. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So was Pepita and. I'd like to tell you another story, but there are, of course, I mean, if I put an. They're back for the celebration of life coping, go to sleep thinking about me, you know, and they thought that we were having a meltdown and the sadness and

[Assistant] That's the guilt

[User] You say was sad that God's got me. Yeah. Oh, OK. And and it was it was a lab tech lab.

[Assistant] And he said it was going that way.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know, and I think I think we go back to the Howard government. I know you also had some last minute make, of course, certain data about the third place. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So was Pepita and. I'd like to tell you another story, but there are, of course, I mean, if I put an. They're back for the celebration of life coping, go to sleep thinking about me, you know, and they thought that we were having a meltdown and the sadness and

[Assistant] That's the guilt

[User] You say was sad that God's got me. Yeah. Oh, OK. And and it was it was a lab tech lab.

[Assistant] And he said it was going that way.

[User] And I said, yeah, they called it because they know you. Yes. But I did this with his Big Mac and then there was this woman. That's would be lamb and then in this case, protect to be goat. Hmm.

[Assistant] How many people lived with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You say was sad that God's got me. Yeah. Oh, OK. And and it was it was a lab tech lab.

[Assistant] And he said it was going that way.

[User] And I said, yeah, they called it because they know you. Yes. But I did this with his Big Mac and then there was this woman. That's would be lamb and then in this case, protect to be goat. Hmm.

[Assistant] How many people lived with you?

[User] There were five at one time. And then one went to another city.

[Assistant] Where is the place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I said, yeah, they called it because they know you. Yes. But I did this with his Big Mac and then there was this woman. That's would be lamb and then in this case, protect to be goat. Hmm.

[Assistant] How many people lived with you?

[User] There were five at one time. And then one went to another city.

[Assistant] Where is the place?

[User] Well, it's in those days it was called Lyallpur, but it was an English name. So they changed it to Faisalabad. That's what it's called today.

[Assistant] Ok, what was your afternoon like, what was your afternoon like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were five at one time. And then one went to another city.

[Assistant] Where is the place?

[User] Well, it's in those days it was called Lyallpur, but it was an English name. So they changed it to Faisalabad. That's what it's called today.

[Assistant] Ok, what was your afternoon like, what was your afternoon like?

[User] I work across the country, I'm comfortable. I can assure. I don't know, a typical afternoon. But go shopping.

[Assistant] What did you buy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's in those days it was called Lyallpur, but it was an English name. So they changed it to Faisalabad. That's what it's called today.

[Assistant] Ok, what was your afternoon like, what was your afternoon like?

[User] I work across the country, I'm comfortable. I can assure. I don't know, a typical afternoon. But go shopping.

[Assistant] What did you buy?

[User]
And there will still be a very famous, that famous shopping place, we will go there. And actually it was famous. I'm not going. And there's there's this art and there is a legend about the elaborate world of a princess. Was that appalled by reality or the it that and he was in peace in the war and having this.

I think you have it backwards. Sorry. I know Anarkali was the princess.

Saying he was he was so close to the time that it won't work then Tom and you won't see anywhere near that got very crowded and you can find out and almost with him close spaces and what have you that you haven't been able to get out of that car when the baby is and got a clothing line, you know, just playing.

Everything had a price, barter for everything.

And certainly the girls there. And that is where they put their show, where it comes and tells me that they were responsible and they didn't have to cut the they say, to make sure we can use that so we can really make them choose to make the time. So, yeah, that Masabumi.

[Assistant] How did you guys meet in country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
He is asking about your vacations, your travel vacations. I know what they were, the mountains.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I guess we had we had vacation. Well, first speculation, I can remember the were going to the mountains, yeah, they name the one, they called me up and they are gone and I'm telling them my little. And it is to see what kind of work there is, one place where I think we when we went to places that did this, what we call the Switzerland of Pakistan, which is a valley, by the way, I should say, up in the mountains. And at the time, there's only one one one way that group. And so in order to contain that, they would make that one place so they can change direction. And how many places do you have any particular places where they were going to change? Because they said it's only one week the there was not registering one week go on one side, which, as far as. They had beautiful mountain scenery in Pakistan.

[Assistant] Did your work or life change in the second year?

[User] Second year, no. It was the same.

[Assistant] How long was your service?

[User] Two years.

[Assistant] Looking back at your service, looking back at your service,


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Second year, no. It was the same.

[Assistant] How long was your service?

[User] Two years.

[Assistant] Looking back at your service, looking back at your service,

[User] Was I invited?

[Assistant] No, um, what were you main accomplishments?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two years.

[Assistant] Looking back at your service, looking back at your service,

[User] Was I invited?

[Assistant] No, um, what were you main accomplishments?

[User]
Oh, I celebrate my contribution to the yeah. Is there something physical? I think this year, like I said, social, my greatest contribution is changing the mentality, I mean, the attitude of what they think about women and the African American. To me, that was my biggest contribution. Nothing physical, OK. I don't think I made any physical change, OK. It's just the nurses, you know, help people who are sick. I take issue with people and in so far as actual changes in the way they labor. Oh yeah. There is probably a slight. I mean, I think probably the biggest one day kind of thing, yeah, something more subtle.

Yeah, I just have a especially especially

[Assistant] Do you have any regrets?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Was I invited?

[Assistant] No, um, what were you main accomplishments?

[User]
Oh, I celebrate my contribution to the yeah. Is there something physical? I think this year, like I said, social, my greatest contribution is changing the mentality, I mean, the attitude of what they think about women and the African American. To me, that was my biggest contribution. Nothing physical, OK. I don't think I made any physical change, OK. It's just the nurses, you know, help people who are sick. I take issue with people and in so far as actual changes in the way they labor. Oh yeah. There is probably a slight. I mean, I think probably the biggest one day kind of thing, yeah, something more subtle.

Yeah, I just have a especially especially

[Assistant] Do you have any regrets?

[User]
I had know we had to measure the success or failure. I only wish that I had and I would have had more teaching. I send me an. I don't really I think the fact that I was when I was in. Able to finish this call because I was not there long and I don't know if that happened, pair the girls.

Yes, but it was finished.

It wasn't around that simply because it was I didn't I didn't have the time, the day to finish it.

[Assistant] Do you mean develop it or which school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that be is worth. And I know. I know. But I'm very concerned, man B and C, I don't know very much about that A, B and C, so I B is the more important for them understanding of the Americans by the Pakistanis. Yes. Like I said, to have greater exposure to American Western women is just by Hollywood. Yeah. Hollywood is not the real thing.

[Assistant] What about C? How did you do C? To promote better understanding of people

[User] I had thought when we come back, Carol and I go to the closest thing, but like then with that, we had a few times the Peace Corps here. And my dear, I'm sorry, during the like, March, March, April. Bigger picture. Yes. Yeah, I am a nipper style. And I would talk to the students about Pakistan in the classroom.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK.

[User] That's one small way. Yeah. Great. But you then you also have long friendships with Pakistanis based on your, your knowledge of the culture and the language.

[Assistant] Do you still have contact with people in Pakistan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had thought when we come back, Carol and I go to the closest thing, but like then with that, we had a few times the Peace Corps here. And my dear, I'm sorry, during the like, March, March, April. Bigger picture. Yes. Yeah, I am a nipper style. And I would talk to the students about Pakistan in the classroom.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK.

[User] That's one small way. Yeah. Great. But you then you also have long friendships with Pakistanis based on your, your knowledge of the culture and the language.

[Assistant] Do you still have contact with people in Pakistan?

[User]
I don't know. But that got them watching a huge earthquake in 2005. And, you know, I don't mean this guy an end to them by Pakistan and Darro establishing an organization to help the people. And he says the friends of Pakistan, you say. That's how we are,

We’re still active for sure.

Where are you from? Houston?

[Assistant] Houston. Ok, this is the brochure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's one small way. Yeah. Great. But you then you also have long friendships with Pakistanis based on your, your knowledge of the culture and the language.

[Assistant] Do you still have contact with people in Pakistan?

[User]
I don't know. But that got them watching a huge earthquake in 2005. And, you know, I don't mean this guy an end to them by Pakistan and Darro establishing an organization to help the people. And he says the friends of Pakistan, you say. That's how we are,

We’re still active for sure.

Where are you from? Houston?

[Assistant] Houston. Ok, this is the brochure.

[User]
Yeah, that's the Benny’s roommate up there in the top.

And they were saying, yeah, this is our first trip over there the day die. And this is just a guy I work with, a guy wearing. He is he and I were invited, this guy over there. OK, so Nick engineering here.

[Assistant] I'll take a picture of this one over.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I don't know. But that got them watching a huge earthquake in 2005. And, you know, I don't mean this guy an end to them by Pakistan and Darro establishing an organization to help the people. And he says the friends of Pakistan, you say. That's how we are,

We’re still active for sure.

Where are you from? Houston?

[Assistant] Houston. Ok, this is the brochure.

[User]
Yeah, that's the Benny’s roommate up there in the top.

And they were saying, yeah, this is our first trip over there the day die. And this is just a guy I work with, a guy wearing. He is he and I were invited, this guy over there. OK, so Nick engineering here.

[Assistant] I'll take a picture of this one over.

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Well, this question should be easy. How what has been the effect of your Peace Corps service on your life?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yeah, that's the Benny’s roommate up there in the top.

And they were saying, yeah, this is our first trip over there the day die. And this is just a guy I work with, a guy wearing. He is he and I were invited, this guy over there. OK, so Nick engineering here.

[Assistant] I'll take a picture of this one over.

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Well, this question should be easy. How what has been the effect of your Peace Corps service on your life?

[User]
What has been the effect of your Peace Corps service on your life?

You know what, second to my marriage, I think as the Peace Corps is probably one of the most influential in I don't know, it's hard to sit in between. I believe, you know, the my peaceful could be a little more like family to me. And I'm and that's why, you know, all these core competencies. Mm hmm. This is my big confidence thing. Well, yeah. And take your girl and I don't know, you ask a lot of people, they haven't done that many. So that's how I always felt for a good people when Dre. And it is when you have something in common. Yes. OK, so that's how this could affect my life, you know, and where I go, where they are Peace Corps. I talk to them and I tell them we were in Mongolia, then we could be school volunteers and an area in Madagascar. Yeah, yeah, Madagascar. That is great. But I got worried that people might be. Yeah. So many of them who work with us and depending on who's girl in Madagascar. And then when we were I was in Nepal because they, they were there would picture all the time, but I thought of it like and there were many people in Peace Corps volunteers. I mean I service in that group who were working in the Habitat for Humanity, working in Nepal.

[Assistant] Nepal opened up not long ago.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Ok, I think there when they open my area, that I can. Learn the language, and that's very important. They can learn the languages and they're ready for anything. Say that compared to other people here that you have, I think this is the job that you're the hardest working the labor movement and that

The hardest job you'll ever love. They still say that?

[Assistant] Yes, they do.

[User] Say that. Yes. And they were there for the temporary sacrifice. And so far of finances, you don't make money. But for me, this core experience, it is very enriching. So what you don't get financially is the people who make have happen, say spiritually, well, spiritually. Let's play a game of game so they can give and take I. I think people who have taken that. But that I do agree with me, that is it is a life changing experience. I don't know how you play like that. I agree. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like my friends in the Peace Corps. What do you think you regret? It is better than. No, I had, I don't think, a very great. And that's good. How many were you in your group?

[Assistant] I had seventy nine in my group.

[User] Well, how was this big boy, nine year old one time?

[Assistant] Uh, I can tell you I'll tell you about this after the recording, but do you have anything else to say?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Say that. Yes. And they were there for the temporary sacrifice. And so far of finances, you don't make money. But for me, this core experience, it is very enriching. So what you don't get financially is the people who make have happen, say spiritually, well, spiritually. Let's play a game of game so they can give and take I. I think people who have taken that. But that I do agree with me, that is it is a life changing experience. I don't know how you play like that. I agree. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like my friends in the Peace Corps. What do you think you regret? It is better than. No, I had, I don't think, a very great. And that's good. How many were you in your group?

[Assistant] I had seventy nine in my group.

[User] Well, how was this big boy, nine year old one time?

[Assistant] Uh, I can tell you I'll tell you about this after the recording, but do you have anything else to say?

[User]
Anything else you want to say because the recording’s on, anything else to add here?

No. And I did find that I am very happy and I am very pleased to see younger people like you do to the same thing that the old guys like me had done before, you know. And encourage the younger people to serve in the Peace Corps. Oh yeah I only have one regret that that neither one of my my daughters followed in my footsteps.

We’re still working on the grandkids.

[Assistant] Ok, well, thank you for your time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was assigned to what was called the Electrical Branch, which had both electrical engineers and electricians in the same group under Jim [James A.] White as Branch Chief.

[Assistant] Your biographical data sheet indicates, and you’ve also indicated today, that you did some work with wind tunnels. Can you talk to us about designing wind tunnel drives and their auxiliary systems?

[User] I guess the first important job I had was on the twelve-foot wind tunnel auxiliary system. I was assigned the electrical engineering job. The twelve-foot wind tunnel was pressurized. You could run it from a vacuum up to seventy-five pounds per square inch pressure, and they had about five thousand horsepower worth of air compressors to evacuate or pressurize the tunnel, together with equipment to take water out of the air and so on. I was assigned the electrical work on that job. Now, I guess it’s fair to say the systems engineering had been done by the contractor, but no installation plans had really been made, and I had to make all the electrical installation plans for that. I’m not sure when that started, probably about a year after I got there.

[Assistant] What did that involve, making the installation plans?

[User] Well, you had to make drawings of where all the underground duct lines went from the motor-starting equipment to the machinery, to these three large motors and about ten small motors, oil-circulating pumps, and things like that. You had to make up a control sequence drawing, so you press the button and certain auxiliaries start, and then you check to see, with pressure switches and things like that, that things have come up to pressure and that it’s okay to start the big machines. And then a sequencing so that you didn’t start all the thousand-horsepower and larger machines, didn’t start them all at the same time, but sequenced them on. That’s about it, I guess.

[Assistant] Did you play any role in the construction then of the wind tunnels?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess the first important job I had was on the twelve-foot wind tunnel auxiliary system. I was assigned the electrical engineering job. The twelve-foot wind tunnel was pressurized. You could run it from a vacuum up to seventy-five pounds per square inch pressure, and they had about five thousand horsepower worth of air compressors to evacuate or pressurize the tunnel, together with equipment to take water out of the air and so on. I was assigned the electrical work on that job. Now, I guess it’s fair to say the systems engineering had been done by the contractor, but no installation plans had really been made, and I had to make all the electrical installation plans for that. I’m not sure when that started, probably about a year after I got there.

[Assistant] What did that involve, making the installation plans?

[User] Well, you had to make drawings of where all the underground duct lines went from the motor-starting equipment to the machinery, to these three large motors and about ten small motors, oil-circulating pumps, and things like that. You had to make up a control sequence drawing, so you press the button and certain auxiliaries start, and then you check to see, with pressure switches and things like that, that things have come up to pressure and that it’s okay to start the big machines. And then a sequencing so that you didn’t start all the thousand-horsepower and larger machines, didn’t start them all at the same time, but sequenced them on. That’s about it, I guess.

[Assistant] Did you play any role in the construction then of the wind tunnels?

[User] Absolutely, yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you had to make drawings of where all the underground duct lines went from the motor-starting equipment to the machinery, to these three large motors and about ten small motors, oil-circulating pumps, and things like that. You had to make up a control sequence drawing, so you press the button and certain auxiliaries start, and then you check to see, with pressure switches and things like that, that things have come up to pressure and that it’s okay to start the big machines. And then a sequencing so that you didn’t start all the thousand-horsepower and larger machines, didn’t start them all at the same time, but sequenced them on. That’s about it, I guess.

[Assistant] Did you play any role in the construction then of the wind tunnels?

[User] Absolutely, yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk about that?

[User] I guess you could call it construction supervision. I was learning more from the people who were installing it than I was teaching them, I think it would be fair to say. And I must say, they were all contractors—they were not NACA personnel—and they were very helpful.\n\n In fact, one of the things—this is getting away from your question, but one of the things I found out was that I learned an awful lot from people like head wind tunnel mechanics and chief electricians and people like that, the nonprofessionals. I really learned a lot from them. Part of the technical—I think more than that—well, how to get the nonprofessional people to do the work that you wanted them to do and not act like you knew it all. Ask them how to do it, or ask them how they would do it. Don’t tell them how to do it, because they were skilled tradespeople, and they knew more than a punk engineer knew. Generally, throughout my career with NACA, I think that always happened. In a sense, they helped you grow up I think is the best way to put it.

[Assistant] Once the wind tunnels were finished, was there ever any sort of dedication ceremony?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely, yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk about that?

[User] I guess you could call it construction supervision. I was learning more from the people who were installing it than I was teaching them, I think it would be fair to say. And I must say, they were all contractors—they were not NACA personnel—and they were very helpful.\n\n In fact, one of the things—this is getting away from your question, but one of the things I found out was that I learned an awful lot from people like head wind tunnel mechanics and chief electricians and people like that, the nonprofessionals. I really learned a lot from them. Part of the technical—I think more than that—well, how to get the nonprofessional people to do the work that you wanted them to do and not act like you knew it all. Ask them how to do it, or ask them how they would do it. Don’t tell them how to do it, because they were skilled tradespeople, and they knew more than a punk engineer knew. Generally, throughout my career with NACA, I think that always happened. In a sense, they helped you grow up I think is the best way to put it.

[Assistant] Once the wind tunnels were finished, was there ever any sort of dedication ceremony?

[User] They used to have these—what were they?—triennial inspections. In a sense, the place shut down for about three weeks, and they invited in several hundred people, academics, local chamber of commerce, for these big tours around the Center, which were very formal. There would be a explanation at each wind tunnel or flight line, what research was going on and what had been accomplished. They were big public relations deals. I remember that the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel was dedicated on one of those. But that occurred only once every three years, and that’s the only dedication that I can recall.

[Assistant] I had another question about the impact of the war. I had read in one of the Ames books that some of the men were inducted into the Navy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I guess you could call it construction supervision. I was learning more from the people who were installing it than I was teaching them, I think it would be fair to say. And I must say, they were all contractors—they were not NACA personnel—and they were very helpful.\n\n In fact, one of the things—this is getting away from your question, but one of the things I found out was that I learned an awful lot from people like head wind tunnel mechanics and chief electricians and people like that, the nonprofessionals. I really learned a lot from them. Part of the technical—I think more than that—well, how to get the nonprofessional people to do the work that you wanted them to do and not act like you knew it all. Ask them how to do it, or ask them how they would do it. Don’t tell them how to do it, because they were skilled tradespeople, and they knew more than a punk engineer knew. Generally, throughout my career with NACA, I think that always happened. In a sense, they helped you grow up I think is the best way to put it.

[Assistant] Once the wind tunnels were finished, was there ever any sort of dedication ceremony?

[User] They used to have these—what were they?—triennial inspections. In a sense, the place shut down for about three weeks, and they invited in several hundred people, academics, local chamber of commerce, for these big tours around the Center, which were very formal. There would be a explanation at each wind tunnel or flight line, what research was going on and what had been accomplished. They were big public relations deals. I remember that the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel was dedicated on one of those. But that occurred only once every three years, and that’s the only dedication that I can recall.

[Assistant] I had another question about the impact of the war. I had read in one of the Ames books that some of the men were inducted into the Navy.

[User] You bet.

[Assistant] Were you one of those men?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They used to have these—what were they?—triennial inspections. In a sense, the place shut down for about three weeks, and they invited in several hundred people, academics, local chamber of commerce, for these big tours around the Center, which were very formal. There would be a explanation at each wind tunnel or flight line, what research was going on and what had been accomplished. They were big public relations deals. I remember that the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel was dedicated on one of those. But that occurred only once every three years, and that’s the only dedication that I can recall.

[Assistant] I had another question about the impact of the war. I had read in one of the Ames books that some of the men were inducted into the Navy.

[User] You bet.

[Assistant] Were you one of those men?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk about what was going on at the Center and how people reacted to that news?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had a little house in East Palo Alto.

[Assistant] Were you living at Moffett Field, though, for the rest of that time?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Were there barracks there for—

[User] Oh yes, yes. You know, there are barracks for four thousand people or something like that.

[Assistant] Was there a cafeteria there on-site for everyone?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Were there barracks there for—

[User] Oh yes, yes. You know, there are barracks for four thousand people or something like that.

[Assistant] Was there a cafeteria there on-site for everyone?

[User] Well, there was the Navy Mess. Yes, there was a cafeteria primarily for civilians. There was the Navy Mess for enlisted personnel, and the Bachelor Officers’ Quarters had some kind of feeding facilities. I don’t really know what they were.

[Assistant] What was the reaction of most of the people who were working for NACA when they became members of the Navy? What was your reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, yes. You know, there are barracks for four thousand people or something like that.

[Assistant] Was there a cafeteria there on-site for everyone?

[User] Well, there was the Navy Mess. Yes, there was a cafeteria primarily for civilians. There was the Navy Mess for enlisted personnel, and the Bachelor Officers’ Quarters had some kind of feeding facilities. I don’t really know what they were.

[Assistant] What was the reaction of most of the people who were working for NACA when they became members of the Navy? What was your reaction?

[User] Well, I suppose, obviously, you wish that it hadn’t happened. At the same time, there were an awful lot of your friends who were out getting shot at, and so you couldn’t feel too bad about it.

[Assistant] And how long did you stay in the Navy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was the Navy Mess. Yes, there was a cafeteria primarily for civilians. There was the Navy Mess for enlisted personnel, and the Bachelor Officers’ Quarters had some kind of feeding facilities. I don’t really know what they were.

[Assistant] What was the reaction of most of the people who were working for NACA when they became members of the Navy? What was your reaction?

[User] Well, I suppose, obviously, you wish that it hadn’t happened. At the same time, there were an awful lot of your friends who were out getting shot at, and so you couldn’t feel too bad about it.

[Assistant] And how long did you stay in the Navy?

[User] Almost two years.

[Assistant] So you stayed until ’46?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I suppose, obviously, you wish that it hadn’t happened. At the same time, there were an awful lot of your friends who were out getting shot at, and so you couldn’t feel too bad about it.

[Assistant] And how long did you stay in the Navy?

[User] Almost two years.

[Assistant] So you stayed until ’46?

[User] Yes, it was sometime in the spring of ’46. I know it was just under two years because I guess in the Korean War there was talk about calling up people who hadn’t served two years, and I wondered if it was going to hit me.

[Assistant] Right. Sure. I can imagine. Let me ask you some more questions about your work with the wind tunnels. Your biographical sheet indicated that you worked on operation of some of the wind tunnels. What did that involve?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Almost two years.

[Assistant] So you stayed until ’46?

[User] Yes, it was sometime in the spring of ’46. I know it was just under two years because I guess in the Korean War there was talk about calling up people who hadn’t served two years, and I wondered if it was going to hit me.

[Assistant] Right. Sure. I can imagine. Let me ask you some more questions about your work with the wind tunnels. Your biographical sheet indicated that you worked on operation of some of the wind tunnels. What did that involve?

[User] Well, it depends what you mean by operation, I guess. I wouldn’t have called it quite operation, in that I would say that those people who were conducting the tests were the wind tunnel operators. I never did that. I, at times, operated—well, you’re certainly on-call for electrical problems on all wind tunnels, and as you achieve some rank in the organization, you were expected to walk in and find the trouble on any wind tunnel which wouldn’t start or any of the auxiliary equipment that wouldn’t start.\n\n I guess the main thing that I think of myself as doing was there was a lot of installation of things like model support systems. They put the model on a couple of prods, two or three prods sticking up, and then they want to change the attitude of the model or things like that, and automatic systems to do that, and I did a lot of work on design and installation and troubleshooting on those systems.

[Assistant] So were you building models then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was sometime in the spring of ’46. I know it was just under two years because I guess in the Korean War there was talk about calling up people who hadn’t served two years, and I wondered if it was going to hit me.

[Assistant] Right. Sure. I can imagine. Let me ask you some more questions about your work with the wind tunnels. Your biographical sheet indicated that you worked on operation of some of the wind tunnels. What did that involve?

[User] Well, it depends what you mean by operation, I guess. I wouldn’t have called it quite operation, in that I would say that those people who were conducting the tests were the wind tunnel operators. I never did that. I, at times, operated—well, you’re certainly on-call for electrical problems on all wind tunnels, and as you achieve some rank in the organization, you were expected to walk in and find the trouble on any wind tunnel which wouldn’t start or any of the auxiliary equipment that wouldn’t start.\n\n I guess the main thing that I think of myself as doing was there was a lot of installation of things like model support systems. They put the model on a couple of prods, two or three prods sticking up, and then they want to change the attitude of the model or things like that, and automatic systems to do that, and I did a lot of work on design and installation and troubleshooting on those systems.

[Assistant] So were you building models then?

[User] No. No, I’m speaking of the kind of things that hold the models in the wind tunnel. As you probably know, the model is sitting there on some sort of support system, and that in turn is connected to a force-measuring system of some sort so you can see what forces the wind imposes on the airplane.

[Assistant] What were some of the challenges that you encountered while working on this type of position or job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it depends what you mean by operation, I guess. I wouldn’t have called it quite operation, in that I would say that those people who were conducting the tests were the wind tunnel operators. I never did that. I, at times, operated—well, you’re certainly on-call for electrical problems on all wind tunnels, and as you achieve some rank in the organization, you were expected to walk in and find the trouble on any wind tunnel which wouldn’t start or any of the auxiliary equipment that wouldn’t start.\n\n I guess the main thing that I think of myself as doing was there was a lot of installation of things like model support systems. They put the model on a couple of prods, two or three prods sticking up, and then they want to change the attitude of the model or things like that, and automatic systems to do that, and I did a lot of work on design and installation and troubleshooting on those systems.

[Assistant] So were you building models then?

[User] No. No, I’m speaking of the kind of things that hold the models in the wind tunnel. As you probably know, the model is sitting there on some sort of support system, and that in turn is connected to a force-measuring system of some sort so you can see what forces the wind imposes on the airplane.

[Assistant] What were some of the challenges that you encountered while working on this type of position or job?

[User] I think that there weren’t many precedents for the design of such things, and that they were unique systems, and so you had to figure out how to make it work. You had to figure out a design that would make it work.

[Assistant] Can you give us an example of some of the groundbreaking techniques that you might have come up with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No, I’m speaking of the kind of things that hold the models in the wind tunnel. As you probably know, the model is sitting there on some sort of support system, and that in turn is connected to a force-measuring system of some sort so you can see what forces the wind imposes on the airplane.

[Assistant] What were some of the challenges that you encountered while working on this type of position or job?

[User] I think that there weren’t many precedents for the design of such things, and that they were unique systems, and so you had to figure out how to make it work. You had to figure out a design that would make it work.

[Assistant] Can you give us an example of some of the groundbreaking techniques that you might have come up with?

[User] Well, I guess in the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel model support system—on all those systems—there is some sort of shroud surrounding the struts that hold the model in the tunnel, and let me explain that further. You want to get the wind forces on the model, not on the struts, which are also out in the wind, so you put a shroud around the struts so those forces are not detected by the force-measuring system. So then when you move the thing, when you move the model, you’ve got to move both the strut and the shroud but keep the shroud away, not touching the strut, because then the forces that would be on the shroud would be transmitted to the strut and to the force-measuring system. So you need a system where one thing tracks another, so you’ve got one motor moving it, moving the strut, and one motor moving the shroud, and you’ve got to keep them tracking each other. Those turned out to be rather difficult control problems.

[Assistant] How many people typically worked with you on these systems?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that there weren’t many precedents for the design of such things, and that they were unique systems, and so you had to figure out how to make it work. You had to figure out a design that would make it work.

[Assistant] Can you give us an example of some of the groundbreaking techniques that you might have come up with?

[User] Well, I guess in the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel model support system—on all those systems—there is some sort of shroud surrounding the struts that hold the model in the tunnel, and let me explain that further. You want to get the wind forces on the model, not on the struts, which are also out in the wind, so you put a shroud around the struts so those forces are not detected by the force-measuring system. So then when you move the thing, when you move the model, you’ve got to move both the strut and the shroud but keep the shroud away, not touching the strut, because then the forces that would be on the shroud would be transmitted to the strut and to the force-measuring system. So you need a system where one thing tracks another, so you’ve got one motor moving it, moving the strut, and one motor moving the shroud, and you’ve got to keep them tracking each other. Those turned out to be rather difficult control problems.

[Assistant] How many people typically worked with you on these systems?

[User] Well, there were, of course, mechanical engineers. I was doing the electrical engineering work. There were, on the building of a system like that, of course, there’s a lot of people in the shop before they ever showed up to be installed, showed up in the wind tunnel to be installed. I never worked in the shop or were contracted out. And then the crew of wind tunnel mechanics had probably six people or so putting it together, and a couple of mechanical engineers and one electrical engineer, I guess, putting together a system like that.

[Assistant] Where was your office located at the time that you were working on these?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I guess in the forty-by-eighty wind tunnel model support system—on all those systems—there is some sort of shroud surrounding the struts that hold the model in the tunnel, and let me explain that further. You want to get the wind forces on the model, not on the struts, which are also out in the wind, so you put a shroud around the struts so those forces are not detected by the force-measuring system. So then when you move the thing, when you move the model, you’ve got to move both the strut and the shroud but keep the shroud away, not touching the strut, because then the forces that would be on the shroud would be transmitted to the strut and to the force-measuring system. So you need a system where one thing tracks another, so you’ve got one motor moving it, moving the strut, and one motor moving the shroud, and you’ve got to keep them tracking each other. Those turned out to be rather difficult control problems.

[Assistant] How many people typically worked with you on these systems?

[User] Well, there were, of course, mechanical engineers. I was doing the electrical engineering work. There were, on the building of a system like that, of course, there’s a lot of people in the shop before they ever showed up to be installed, showed up in the wind tunnel to be installed. I never worked in the shop or were contracted out. And then the crew of wind tunnel mechanics had probably six people or so putting it together, and a couple of mechanical engineers and one electrical engineer, I guess, putting together a system like that.

[Assistant] Where was your office located at the time that you were working on these?

[User] It was in what was called the Utilities Building. It’s across the street from the fourteen-foot wind tunnel.

[Assistant] How much time did you spend in the wind tunnels while you were working on these systems?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there were, of course, mechanical engineers. I was doing the electrical engineering work. There were, on the building of a system like that, of course, there’s a lot of people in the shop before they ever showed up to be installed, showed up in the wind tunnel to be installed. I never worked in the shop or were contracted out. And then the crew of wind tunnel mechanics had probably six people or so putting it together, and a couple of mechanical engineers and one electrical engineer, I guess, putting together a system like that.

[Assistant] Where was your office located at the time that you were working on these?

[User] It was in what was called the Utilities Building. It’s across the street from the fourteen-foot wind tunnel.

[Assistant] How much time did you spend in the wind tunnels while you were working on these systems?

[User] Oh, maybe 25 percent of the time.

[Assistant] What was your average workday like? Can you give us a sense of when you might arrive, what you might do during the day, and when you might leave?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was in what was called the Utilities Building. It’s across the street from the fourteen-foot wind tunnel.

[Assistant] How much time did you spend in the wind tunnels while you were working on these systems?

[User] Oh, maybe 25 percent of the time.

[Assistant] What was your average workday like? Can you give us a sense of when you might arrive, what you might do during the day, and when you might leave?

[User] Actually, arriving—well, particularly when I was a civilian, arriving and leaving had to be pretty much on a schedule because of gas rationing during the war. You had to form ride groups, and that meant everybody got there about eight o’clock and everybody left about four-thirty. Now, obviously, if you had some hot job going on, you might have to stay beyond four-thirty. I hitchhiked home a lot of times.\n\n Repeat the question, please. I got on a side track there.

[Assistant] Oh, sure. No, but that’s great information for us to have, actually. Can you give us a sense of your workday as you’re working out at Ames, what you might do during the course of the day?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, maybe 25 percent of the time.

[Assistant] What was your average workday like? Can you give us a sense of when you might arrive, what you might do during the day, and when you might leave?

[User] Actually, arriving—well, particularly when I was a civilian, arriving and leaving had to be pretty much on a schedule because of gas rationing during the war. You had to form ride groups, and that meant everybody got there about eight o’clock and everybody left about four-thirty. Now, obviously, if you had some hot job going on, you might have to stay beyond four-thirty. I hitchhiked home a lot of times.\n\n Repeat the question, please. I got on a side track there.

[Assistant] Oh, sure. No, but that’s great information for us to have, actually. Can you give us a sense of your workday as you’re working out at Ames, what you might do during the course of the day?

[User] Well, I don’t really know what to say there. Most of the time the work was in the office, and probably you ended up taking at least one trouble call a day which got you out of the office for what could turn out to be two or three days, but more likely fifteen minutes to an hour and a half. Most of the work was in the office, and I really find it difficult to characterize it other than that.

[Assistant] What type of tools or equipment did you use to do your job?