[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, you're talking about my village. I met her at the.

[Assistant] Oh, she wasn't in your village?

[User] No, I met her at one of the conversation clubs that we hosted in the town. So she just came, she was a college student. And yeah, I saw her looking at me, although she says I was looking at her. But yeah, we just kind of got to know each other through the clubs. And I'd invite her out. And we had just lots of conversations. And we were kind of we were dating for about nine months before I COS’ed.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And we kind of like decided to be friends. But pretty quickly after that, we kept chatting and talking and. Yeah. And ultimately decided. So we did long distance for about a year before she you know, she came to the U.S. on a fiancée visa.

[Assistant] Oh, nice. Oh, that's so romantic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I met her at one of the conversation clubs that we hosted in the town. So she just came, she was a college student. And yeah, I saw her looking at me, although she says I was looking at her. But yeah, we just kind of got to know each other through the clubs. And I'd invite her out. And we had just lots of conversations. And we were kind of we were dating for about nine months before I COS’ed.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And we kind of like decided to be friends. But pretty quickly after that, we kept chatting and talking and. Yeah. And ultimately decided. So we did long distance for about a year before she you know, she came to the U.S. on a fiancée visa.

[Assistant] Oh, nice. Oh, that's so romantic.

[User] Yeah. We're going to be married now 12 years in July. 7-7-7.

[Assistant] That's beautiful. Were you tempted to stay on longer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we kind of like decided to be friends. But pretty quickly after that, we kept chatting and talking and. Yeah. And ultimately decided. So we did long distance for about a year before she you know, she came to the U.S. on a fiancée visa.

[Assistant] Oh, nice. Oh, that's so romantic.

[User] Yeah. We're going to be married now 12 years in July. 7-7-7.

[Assistant] That's beautiful. Were you tempted to stay on longer?

[User] Yeah. Tempted. I felt like there was just the sort of push to like, you know, you kind of go two years and you can extend, but it's sort of like an exception. And so I felt like it wasn't really an option. At the same time, I was looking into graduate school. So, yeah, I ended up just going to graduate school.

[Assistant] Let's see. Have you gone back to visit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Tempted. I felt like there was just the sort of push to like, you know, you kind of go two years and you can extend, but it's sort of like an exception. And so I felt like it wasn't really an option. At the same time, I was looking into graduate school. So, yeah, I ended up just going to graduate school.

[Assistant] Let's see. Have you gone back to visit?

[User] Well, I went once the year later when I went to go meet my fiancée. And I visited the town, but I haven't been back since. It's just so expensive to fly there. And now we have kids, too. That's more. But I think we'll go back. We'll go back eventually. Yeah, I think. My well, my wife has also visited, I think maybe once since then. But even when she went to visit, she said, like so much has changed since then, doesn't really feel the same. And her family's kind of spread out. So there's really no huge reason to take us back there.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Yeah. For better or for worse.

[Assistant] So you are in Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association. Are you in Friends of Kazakhstan or any other organizations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I went once the year later when I went to go meet my fiancée. And I visited the town, but I haven't been back since. It's just so expensive to fly there. And now we have kids, too. That's more. But I think we'll go back. We'll go back eventually. Yeah, I think. My well, my wife has also visited, I think maybe once since then. But even when she went to visit, she said, like so much has changed since then, doesn't really feel the same. And her family's kind of spread out. So there's really no huge reason to take us back there.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Yeah. For better or for worse.

[Assistant] So you are in Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association. Are you in Friends of Kazakhstan or any other organizations?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Associated with Peace Corps, obviously. What have you done to fulfill what is the. I read something that the third the three goals have changed. I thought one of the three goals were to bring the world back home. What have you done in that way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm bringing that to, uh, bringing that to central Texas, increasing the awareness that. And I did that within. I'm trying to do that more within local church, so I'm a leader in my local church and I'm developing a workshop for talking about, you know, into intercultural, intercultural awareness within the body of Christ. Has a church that is is supposed to be united in diversity. Something that, you know, Paul talked a lot about as he was going around in the early church and meeting with people who are Greeks and Romans and Jews from various backgrounds, Hellenistic Jews or Greek speaking Jews or whatever. And so that was a huge topic in the early church. And I don't think that's changed much right. In the history of the church. And so that needs a lot of work with just people recognizing that there is a culture and that that doesn't that like Western Protestant culture as it's as it's as it exists in the U.S. isn't per se like biblical culture. And there's lots of room for how do we how do we navigate that and discuss that openly? Create a sense of vulnerability and, you know, putting ourselves in in these learning situations to say like, hey, your experience has been different than mine. But we're still part of the same church. So what does that mean? It's not just minimizing difference. It's, you know, how do we celebrate our unity but recognize that there are there are and we all have our different stories and how that plays into who we are as a church.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So that's something I'm working on right now, which I think is important work, too, as we experience more polarization. Yes. And within US culture and where the church has played a role in that historically.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And even now, in sort of like, you know, evangelical politics, which yeah, it's a it's a hard topic.

[Assistant] Yeah. Is there something you would like to talk about that I haven't touched on in this interview?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] OK

[Assistant] You were educated in South Carolina; you got an MA and a PHD from George Washington. What was the subject ofyour PHD?

[User] Dissertation?

[Assistant] Were you a history major?

[User] History? Yes. George Washington had at that time 5 fields with a doctorate and 3 ofthem were in history and there were a couple of others in economics and social history. So it's mainly history.

[Assistant] You worked at the Library of Congress.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Dissertation?

[Assistant] Were you a history major?

[User] History? Yes. George Washington had at that time 5 fields with a doctorate and 3 ofthem were in history and there were a couple of others in economics and social history. So it's mainly history.

[Assistant] You worked at the Library of Congress.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] What was that position?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] History? Yes. George Washington had at that time 5 fields with a doctorate and 3 ofthem were in history and there were a couple of others in economics and social history. So it's mainly history.

[Assistant] You worked at the Library of Congress.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] What was that position?

[User] I was a reference librarian in the local history and genealogy section.

[Assistant] Did that prepare you for a career at the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] What was that position?

[User] I was a reference librarian in the local history and genealogy section.

[Assistant] Did that prepare you for a career at the National Archives?

[User] Well there were a lot of genealogists wandering around the National Archives. But in that job I really got a respect for genealogists. They are very good researchers and don't deserve the scorn they get in most research places where they work.

[Assistant] What was your position at the National Portrait Gallery?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was a reference librarian in the local history and genealogy section.

[Assistant] Did that prepare you for a career at the National Archives?

[User] Well there were a lot of genealogists wandering around the National Archives. But in that job I really got a respect for genealogists. They are very good researchers and don't deserve the scorn they get in most research places where they work.

[Assistant] What was your position at the National Portrait Gallery?

[User] I was Assistant Historian.

[Assistant] Did you publish anything there while you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well there were a lot of genealogists wandering around the National Archives. But in that job I really got a respect for genealogists. They are very good researchers and don't deserve the scorn they get in most research places where they work.

[Assistant] What was your position at the National Portrait Gallery?

[User] I was Assistant Historian.

[Assistant] Did you publish anything there while you were there?

[User] I was in charge of popular publications and for the first exhibition we had a very good catalogue. I edited that and enjoyed doing it.

[Assistant] Were you recruited by Frank Burke to come to the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was Assistant Historian.

[Assistant] Did you publish anything there while you were there?

[User] I was in charge of popular publications and for the first exhibition we had a very good catalogue. I edited that and enjoyed doing it.

[Assistant] Were you recruited by Frank Burke to come to the National Archives?

[User] Yes. I met him through ... we were putting together at the National Portrait Gallery a catalogue of American Portraits. And we were trying to work toward putting that on computer. And so my boss there, Dan Reed, brought in Frank Burke to help us with the computer work. And we worked together on that catalogue and then Frank invited me to come over here and work for him.

[Assistant] What was your first position at the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was in charge of popular publications and for the first exhibition we had a very good catalogue. I edited that and enjoyed doing it.

[Assistant] Were you recruited by Frank Burke to come to the National Archives?

[User] Yes. I met him through ... we were putting together at the National Portrait Gallery a catalogue of American Portraits. And we were trying to work toward putting that on computer. And so my boss there, Dan Reed, brought in Frank Burke to help us with the computer work. And we worked together on that catalogue and then Frank invited me to come over here and work for him.

[Assistant] What was your first position at the National Archives?

[User] Director of popular publications and exhibitions in the Education Programs department.

[Assistant] What was your first reaction to being at the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I met him through ... we were putting together at the National Portrait Gallery a catalogue of American Portraits. And we were trying to work toward putting that on computer. And so my boss there, Dan Reed, brought in Frank Burke to help us with the computer work. And we worked together on that catalogue and then Frank invited me to come over here and work for him.

[Assistant] What was your first position at the National Archives?

[User] Director of popular publications and exhibitions in the Education Programs department.

[Assistant] What was your first reaction to being at the National Archives?

[User] Oh, I don't remember, it was a bit overwhelming because I'd been working in a very small place but people were nice and I enjoyed it.

[Assistant] Did you go through any training program when you first came to the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Director of popular publications and exhibitions in the Education Programs department.

[Assistant] What was your first reaction to being at the National Archives?

[User] Oh, I don't remember, it was a bit overwhelming because I'd been working in a very small place but people were nice and I enjoyed it.

[Assistant] Did you go through any training program when you first came to the National Archives?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Was any training offered to you when you first came, just to get used to the building?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I don't remember, it was a bit overwhelming because I'd been working in a very small place but people were nice and I enjoyed it.

[Assistant] Did you go through any training program when you first came to the National Archives?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Was any training offered to you when you first came, just to get used to the building?

[User] No (laughs)

[Assistant] Did Frank provide training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No (laughs)

[Assistant] Did Frank provide training?

[User] Not formally.

[Assistant] Not formally.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But kind of on a day to day basis?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not formally.

[Assistant] Not formally.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] But kind of on a day to day basis?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How many people were in Educational Programs in those days?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How many people were in Educational Programs in those days?

[User] I think about 8.

[Assistant] Eight.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you have anybody working for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think about 8.

[Assistant] Eight.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you have anybody working for you?

[User] Oh, yes. I had a staff.

[Assistant] You had a staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you have anybody working for you?

[User] Oh, yes. I had a staff.

[Assistant] You had a staff?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. I had a staff.

[Assistant] You had a staff?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many people?

[User] Three and four. And then interns, summer interns I had a lot of. And some of them came to work for the Archives later.

[Assistant] What was it like to put up an exhibit in those days for the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many people?

[User] Three and four. And then interns, summer interns I had a lot of. And some of them came to work for the Archives later.

[Assistant] What was it like to put up an exhibit in those days for the National Archives?

[User] Well I just had the editing and history part ofit. Frank himself had the installation of exhibits. So I didn't have much to do with that.

[Assistant] You became the specialist in Women's history with Mabel Dietrich. How long after you started did that take place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Three and four. And then interns, summer interns I had a lot of. And some of them came to work for the Archives later.

[Assistant] What was it like to put up an exhibit in those days for the National Archives?

[User] Well I just had the editing and history part ofit. Frank himself had the installation of exhibits. So I didn't have much to do with that.

[Assistant] You became the specialist in Women's history with Mabel Dietrich. How long after you started did that take place?

[User] I think that it was the year of 1976 that I was women's history specialist. Just the one year.

[Assistant] Just one year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well I just had the editing and history part ofit. Frank himself had the installation of exhibits. So I didn't have much to do with that.

[Assistant] You became the specialist in Women's history with Mabel Dietrich. How long after you started did that take place?

[User] I think that it was the year of 1976 that I was women's history specialist. Just the one year.

[Assistant] Just one year?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you assisted Mabel Dietrich in putting together the conference on Women's History?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that it was the year of 1976 that I was women's history specialist. Just the one year.

[Assistant] Just one year?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you assisted Mabel Dietrich in putting together the conference on Women's History?

[User] Yeah, oh yeah.

[Assistant] And what kind of work did that involve?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And you assisted Mabel Dietrich in putting together the conference on Women's History?

[User] Yeah, oh yeah.

[Assistant] And what kind of work did that involve?

[User] Contacting people who were prominent in Women's history. And that was very interesting because I met a lot of historians and I enjoyed that very much.

[Assistant] That conference series was very successful in the 1970s for the National Archives.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, oh yeah.

[Assistant] And what kind of work did that involve?

[User] Contacting people who were prominent in Women's history. And that was very interesting because I met a lot of historians and I enjoyed that very much.

[Assistant] That conference series was very successful in the 1970s for the National Archives.

[User] Yes, it was.

[Assistant] Particularly the Women's History Conference. It stood out among the others we put on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Contacting people who were prominent in Women's history. And that was very interesting because I met a lot of historians and I enjoyed that very much.

[Assistant] That conference series was very successful in the 1970s for the National Archives.

[User] Yes, it was.

[Assistant] Particularly the Women's History Conference. It stood out among the others we put on.

[User] Yes, it was sort of a new field.

[Assistant] What was your relationship with Mabel Dietrich?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was.

[Assistant] Particularly the Women's History Conference. It stood out among the others we put on.

[User] Yes, it was sort of a new field.

[Assistant] What was your relationship with Mabel Dietrich?

[User] Scared to death of her to start out. And then we became bosom friends and kept that friendship until she died.

[Assistant] What kind of supervisor was she like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was sort of a new field.

[Assistant] What was your relationship with Mabel Dietrich?

[User] Scared to death of her to start out. And then we became bosom friends and kept that friendship until she died.

[Assistant] What kind of supervisor was she like?

[User] A very loose supervisor, no real close attention.

[Assistant] The two ofyou worked to put the conference together. Did she direct you specifically or did she allow you to have the run ofthe conference?_


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Scared to death of her to start out. And then we became bosom friends and kept that friendship until she died.

[Assistant] What kind of supervisor was she like?

[User] A very loose supervisor, no real close attention.

[Assistant] The two ofyou worked to put the conference together. Did she direct you specifically or did she allow you to have the run ofthe conference?_

[User] She left me on my own but was always available if I needed help.

[Assistant] Did you talk on a daily basis, hourly basis?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A very loose supervisor, no real close attention.

[Assistant] The two ofyou worked to put the conference together. Did she direct you specifically or did she allow you to have the run ofthe conference?_

[User] She left me on my own but was always available if I needed help.

[Assistant] Did you talk on a daily basis, hourly basis?

[User] Oh yes. I had an office on the other side of the entrance ofto her suite. So I was in constant touch with her.

[Assistant] Was it difficult to get people to come to conferences at the National Archives in those days?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She left me on my own but was always available if I needed help.

[Assistant] Did you talk on a daily basis, hourly basis?

[User] Oh yes. I had an office on the other side of the entrance ofto her suite. So I was in constant touch with her.

[Assistant] Was it difficult to get people to come to conferences at the National Archives in those days?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] The audiences for the women's conferences were capacity?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes. I had an office on the other side of the entrance ofto her suite. So I was in constant touch with her.

[Assistant] Was it difficult to get people to come to conferences at the National Archives in those days?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] The audiences for the women's conferences were capacity?

[User] I think so.

[Assistant] Did you get a lot of feed back from the conference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] The audiences for the women's conferences were capacity?

[User] I think so.

[Assistant] Did you get a lot of feed back from the conference?

[User] I'm not sure what you mean?

[Assistant] Did people who came to the conference comment to you about the National Archives being involved in this initiative?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think so.

[Assistant] Did you get a lot of feed back from the conference?

[User] I'm not sure what you mean?

[Assistant] Did people who came to the conference comment to you about the National Archives being involved in this initiative?

[User] It worried me that a lot of people didn't seem to know what the purposes of the conferences were. I gave a paper outlining the kinds of sources available for women's history in the National Archives and later on I found out that one lady said, "I don't know what you were driving at" so I evidently didn't do a very good job of saying this, well she said you covered so many things. Well what I did was try to show how each part of.the National Archives had records relating to women's history for researchers.

[Assistant] Did we get more researchers in after ...?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm not sure what you mean?

[Assistant] Did people who came to the conference comment to you about the National Archives being involved in this initiative?

[User] It worried me that a lot of people didn't seem to know what the purposes of the conferences were. I gave a paper outlining the kinds of sources available for women's history in the National Archives and later on I found out that one lady said, "I don't know what you were driving at" so I evidently didn't do a very good job of saying this, well she said you covered so many things. Well what I did was try to show how each part of.the National Archives had records relating to women's history for researchers.

[Assistant] Did we get more researchers in after ...?

[User] That I don't know. (laughs) Time out for photographs (9:02)

[Assistant] You had the women's history conference which provided en tree to records relating to women in the National Archives.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It worried me that a lot of people didn't seem to know what the purposes of the conferences were. I gave a paper outlining the kinds of sources available for women's history in the National Archives and later on I found out that one lady said, "I don't know what you were driving at" so I evidently didn't do a very good job of saying this, well she said you covered so many things. Well what I did was try to show how each part of.the National Archives had records relating to women's history for researchers.

[Assistant] Did we get more researchers in after ...?

[User] That I don't know. (laughs) Time out for photographs (9:02)

[Assistant] You had the women's history conference which provided en tree to records relating to women in the National Archives.

[User] Right

[Assistant] What was it like working as a woman in the National Archives in the 1970s?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That I don't know. (laughs) Time out for photographs (9:02)

[Assistant] You had the women's history conference which provided en tree to records relating to women in the National Archives.

[User] Right

[Assistant] What was it like working as a woman in the National Archives in the 1970s?

[User] I think that there was no differentiation between men and women in the sort of work they did and the kind of relations they had. I'm trying to remember one time when something went wrong and I was mad about it and I said to Bert Rhoads, "Well if a man had had this problem you would have solved it differently." He flew up, I'd never seen him mad before, and he said "Archives is absolutely not opposed to women working". So it was a real good feeling.

[Assistant] Did you feel any pressure to do better than the men?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think that there was no differentiation between men and women in the sort of work they did and the kind of relations they had. I'm trying to remember one time when something went wrong and I was mad about it and I said to Bert Rhoads, "Well if a man had had this problem you would have solved it differently." He flew up, I'd never seen him mad before, and he said "Archives is absolutely not opposed to women working". So it was a real good feeling.

[Assistant] Did you feel any pressure to do better than the men?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You didn't.

[User] Laughs

[Assistant] Let's move on the start of the Assembly. You and I were in the initial committee that put the Assembly together.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You didn't.

[User] Laughs

[Assistant] Let's move on the start of the Assembly. You and I were in the initial committee that put the Assembly together.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] What was your personal reason for getting involved in this committee?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Laughs

[Assistant] Let's move on the start of the Assembly. You and I were in the initial committee that put the Assembly together.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] What was your personal reason for getting involved in this committee?

[User] Well, we were still part of General Services Administration, and there was an administrator who came in to GSA who thought that he kept records of papers like paper towels and toilet paper and we kept paper records and they were all the same thing. And he was proposing to send the records out to different parts of the country. He was going to send the civil war records to Richmond, I guess. And it would have just completely torn up the Archives if he had done that. And there were several of us who were just so concerned about it that we got together at each other's houses and talked about what we could do. And then finally a committee of us went to see the GSA administrator. And I was so nervous about that that my hands were shaking. I've never seen my hands shaking before or since (laughs).

[Assistant] That administrator was Admiral Freeman.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] What was your personal reason for getting involved in this committee?

[User] Well, we were still part of General Services Administration, and there was an administrator who came in to GSA who thought that he kept records of papers like paper towels and toilet paper and we kept paper records and they were all the same thing. And he was proposing to send the records out to different parts of the country. He was going to send the civil war records to Richmond, I guess. And it would have just completely torn up the Archives if he had done that. And there were several of us who were just so concerned about it that we got together at each other's houses and talked about what we could do. And then finally a committee of us went to see the GSA administrator. And I was so nervous about that that my hands were shaking. I've never seen my hands shaking before or since (laughs).

[Assistant] That administrator was Admiral Freeman.

[User] Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Assistant] What did you think of our conversation with him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we were still part of General Services Administration, and there was an administrator who came in to GSA who thought that he kept records of papers like paper towels and toilet paper and we kept paper records and they were all the same thing. And he was proposing to send the records out to different parts of the country. He was going to send the civil war records to Richmond, I guess. And it would have just completely torn up the Archives if he had done that. And there were several of us who were just so concerned about it that we got together at each other's houses and talked about what we could do. And then finally a committee of us went to see the GSA administrator. And I was so nervous about that that my hands were shaking. I've never seen my hands shaking before or since (laughs).

[Assistant] That administrator was Admiral Freeman.

[User] Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Assistant] What did you think of our conversation with him?

[User] Well, he was very pleasant. And I think we made our point because, of course, he didn't tear up the Archives as we expected him to. He seemed like a very nice man who just didn't understand this part of his work. And we could understand that because we didn't think we ought to be part of GSA.

[Assistant] The issue ofNational Archives independence. Was that a major part of the committee's work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Assistant] What did you think of our conversation with him?

[User] Well, he was very pleasant. And I think we made our point because, of course, he didn't tear up the Archives as we expected him to. He seemed like a very nice man who just didn't understand this part of his work. And we could understand that because we didn't think we ought to be part of GSA.

[Assistant] The issue ofNational Archives independence. Was that a major part of the committee's work?

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Did Admiral Freeman understand that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, he was very pleasant. And I think we made our point because, of course, he didn't tear up the Archives as we expected him to. He seemed like a very nice man who just didn't understand this part of his work. And we could understand that because we didn't think we ought to be part of GSA.

[Assistant] The issue ofNational Archives independence. Was that a major part of the committee's work?

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Did Admiral Freeman understand that?

[User] I don't think so. Who was the next Archivist in the 1970s?

[Assistant] Jim O'Neill was acting Archivist when we were putting the Assembly together.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] Did Admiral Freeman understand that?

[User] I don't think so. Who was the next Archivist in the 1970s?

[Assistant] Jim O'Neill was acting Archivist when we were putting the Assembly together.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then Bob Warner ...


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so. Who was the next Archivist in the 1970s?

[Assistant] Jim O'Neill was acting Archivist when we were putting the Assembly together.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then Bob Warner ...

[User] Bob Warner was the one who said he took the job just to get us independent. And he went on up to Ames, Iowa, to his homestead after he had accomplished that.

[Assistant] The Committee that put the Assembly together was generally a group of young archivists.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then Bob Warner ...

[User] Bob Warner was the one who said he took the job just to get us independent. And he went on up to Ames, Iowa, to his homestead after he had accomplished that.

[Assistant] The Committee that put the Assembly together was generally a group of young archivists.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And when the Assembly actually got put together the question was who was going to become the first president. And unanimously we selected you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bob Warner was the one who said he took the job just to get us independent. And he went on up to Ames, Iowa, to his homestead after he had accomplished that.

[Assistant] The Committee that put the Assembly together was generally a group of young archivists.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And when the Assembly actually got put together the question was who was going to become the first president. And unanimously we selected you.

[User] [Laughs]

[Assistant] Did you see that coming?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And when the Assembly actually got put together the question was who was going to become the first president. And unanimously we selected you.

[User] [Laughs]

[Assistant] Did you see that coming?

[User] No! [laughs] I did not see it coming and I said, "I can't do it. I've never been president of anything in my life and I don't want to start now."

[Assistant] And how did we convince you to take up the job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] [Laughs]

[Assistant] Did you see that coming?

[User] No! [laughs] I did not see it coming and I said, "I can't do it. I've never been president of anything in my life and I don't want to start now."

[Assistant] And how did we convince you to take up the job?

[User] I think it was Ken Harris who said to me, Virginia, if you don't take the job it'll all fall apart because you are the only person around that nobody dislikes (laughs).

[Assistant] Were you the President who started the tradition of the Assembly President talking with the Archivists once a quarter?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No! [laughs] I did not see it coming and I said, "I can't do it. I've never been president of anything in my life and I don't want to start now."

[Assistant] And how did we convince you to take up the job?

[User] I think it was Ken Harris who said to me, Virginia, if you don't take the job it'll all fall apart because you are the only person around that nobody dislikes (laughs).

[Assistant] Were you the President who started the tradition of the Assembly President talking with the Archivists once a quarter?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You didn't do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it was Ken Harris who said to me, Virginia, if you don't take the job it'll all fall apart because you are the only person around that nobody dislikes (laughs).

[Assistant] Were you the President who started the tradition of the Assembly President talking with the Archivists once a quarter?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You didn't do that?

[User] No.

[Assistant] I didn't either three years later but that was because things were real hot on the independence issue.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] You didn't do that?

[User] No.

[Assistant] I didn't either three years later but that was because things were real hot on the independence issue.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] And Warner told me, he didn't want to see me.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] I didn't either three years later but that was because things were real hot on the independence issue.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] And Warner told me, he didn't want to see me.

[User] Laughs.

[Assistant] I thought you had done that but I must be mistaken.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] And Warner told me, he didn't want to see me.

[User] Laughs.

[Assistant] I thought you had done that but I must be mistaken.

[User] No.

[Assistant] What was that year of the Presidency like for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Laughs.

[Assistant] I thought you had done that but I must be mistaken.

[User] No.

[Assistant] What was that year of the Presidency like for you?

[User] Well, I got so I liked the job. I remember holding a meeting in the Auditorium and the people who responded and came up and made remarks and all were just such great people. And I remember telling the Archivist's assistant, whose name I can't remember, that that gathering in the Auditorium represented the creme de la creme of our staff. And it was not just archivists it was lower ranking people as well and I just thought it was wonderful.

[Assistant] You and I had a conversation at the time about the question of recruiting clerical and archives technician positions into the Assembly. You just mentioned that. How important was that to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] What was that year of the Presidency like for you?

[User] Well, I got so I liked the job. I remember holding a meeting in the Auditorium and the people who responded and came up and made remarks and all were just such great people. And I remember telling the Archivist's assistant, whose name I can't remember, that that gathering in the Auditorium represented the creme de la creme of our staff. And it was not just archivists it was lower ranking people as well and I just thought it was wonderful.

[Assistant] You and I had a conversation at the time about the question of recruiting clerical and archives technician positions into the Assembly. You just mentioned that. How important was that to you?

[User] Well, I'm a democrat through and through, with a small "d", and I didn't like the idea of having a bunch of people lording it over anybody. I felt that the junior staff was just as concerned with the records as we were. And also I remember that Lillian Grandy was an archivist technician that worked for me in Educational programs on exhibits. She knew the records that she worked with, the diplomatic records, better than any archivist did. And I think my conversation with Lillian was what convinced me we had to have archives technicians in the organization.

[Assistant] Did you follow the activities of the Assembly after you left the Presidency?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I got so I liked the job. I remember holding a meeting in the Auditorium and the people who responded and came up and made remarks and all were just such great people. And I remember telling the Archivist's assistant, whose name I can't remember, that that gathering in the Auditorium represented the creme de la creme of our staff. And it was not just archivists it was lower ranking people as well and I just thought it was wonderful.

[Assistant] You and I had a conversation at the time about the question of recruiting clerical and archives technician positions into the Assembly. You just mentioned that. How important was that to you?

[User] Well, I'm a democrat through and through, with a small "d", and I didn't like the idea of having a bunch of people lording it over anybody. I felt that the junior staff was just as concerned with the records as we were. And also I remember that Lillian Grandy was an archivist technician that worked for me in Educational programs on exhibits. She knew the records that she worked with, the diplomatic records, better than any archivist did. And I think my conversation with Lillian was what convinced me we had to have archives technicians in the organization.

[Assistant] Did you follow the activities of the Assembly after you left the Presidency?

[User] I don't think so, I don't remember doing it.

[Assistant] How long were you the women's history specialist?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I'm a democrat through and through, with a small "d", and I didn't like the idea of having a bunch of people lording it over anybody. I felt that the junior staff was just as concerned with the records as we were. And also I remember that Lillian Grandy was an archivist technician that worked for me in Educational programs on exhibits. She knew the records that she worked with, the diplomatic records, better than any archivist did. And I think my conversation with Lillian was what convinced me we had to have archives technicians in the organization.

[Assistant] Did you follow the activities of the Assembly after you left the Presidency?

[User] I don't think so, I don't remember doing it.

[Assistant] How long were you the women's history specialist?

[User] One miserable year. Laughs.

[Assistant] Laughs. Then what did you do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so, I don't remember doing it.

[Assistant] How long were you the women's history specialist?

[User] One miserable year. Laughs.

[Assistant] Laughs. Then what did you do?

[User] Then I was put in charge of archival publications which included describing records, editing guides, inventories and that sort of thing. That was much more my style.

[Assistant] And what did you do? You edited guides and that sort of thing. Were you in head of the publications branch?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One miserable year. Laughs.

[Assistant] Laughs. Then what did you do?

[User] Then I was put in charge of archival publications which included describing records, editing guides, inventories and that sort of thing. That was much more my style.

[Assistant] And what did you do? You edited guides and that sort of thing. Were you in head of the publications branch?

[User] Yeah, I had several people working who were working on inventories and people who were working on guides. And I supervised their work.

[Assistant] And this was before computers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then I was put in charge of archival publications which included describing records, editing guides, inventories and that sort of thing. That was much more my style.

[Assistant] And what did you do? You edited guides and that sort of thing. Were you in head of the publications branch?

[User] Yeah, I had several people working who were working on inventories and people who were working on guides. And I supervised their work.

[Assistant] And this was before computers?

[User] I'm trying to think. No! Because I had a terminal on my desk and several other people did too. That's something that I remember that's kind of funny. was asked, because I had had some contact with computers when I worked for the Smithsonian, to talk to the archivists about converting to automation and I said to them it was going to be wonderful, that we were going to have bar codes, to identify things by and all of this and one man, I don't know whether I should give his name or not, got up and left in the middle of all this and said, "She's talking a lot of rot, it'll never happen", and of course in six months we did have terminals on our desks.

[Assistant] The editing process must have been much easier from typewriters to computers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I had several people working who were working on inventories and people who were working on guides. And I supervised their work.

[Assistant] And this was before computers?

[User] I'm trying to think. No! Because I had a terminal on my desk and several other people did too. That's something that I remember that's kind of funny. was asked, because I had had some contact with computers when I worked for the Smithsonian, to talk to the archivists about converting to automation and I said to them it was going to be wonderful, that we were going to have bar codes, to identify things by and all of this and one man, I don't know whether I should give his name or not, got up and left in the middle of all this and said, "She's talking a lot of rot, it'll never happen", and of course in six months we did have terminals on our desks.

[Assistant] The editing process must have been much easier from typewriters to computers.

[User] I edited the manuscripts, they were printouts, but it didn't make much difference to me.

[Assistant] I see. What was your favorite guide that you edited?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm trying to think. No! Because I had a terminal on my desk and several other people did too. That's something that I remember that's kind of funny. was asked, because I had had some contact with computers when I worked for the Smithsonian, to talk to the archivists about converting to automation and I said to them it was going to be wonderful, that we were going to have bar codes, to identify things by and all of this and one man, I don't know whether I should give his name or not, got up and left in the middle of all this and said, "She's talking a lot of rot, it'll never happen", and of course in six months we did have terminals on our desks.

[Assistant] The editing process must have been much easier from typewriters to computers.

[User] I edited the manuscripts, they were printouts, but it didn't make much difference to me.

[Assistant] I see. What was your favorite guide that you edited?

[User] [Laughs] I guess the women's history guide. But I didn't finish editing it because I left before the guide was finished.

[Assistant] What kind ofchanges in your work did you see over time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] [Laughs] I guess the women's history guide. But I didn't finish editing it because I left before the guide was finished.

[Assistant] What kind ofchanges in your work did you see over time?

[User] Oh dear! That's a hard question. I'm not sure I saw any changes. I'm afraid I didn't, it varied with the Archivist. Bert Rhoads was Archivist when I came on. Because I worked in educational programs with a small staff, right under the Archivist, I got to know him real well and liked him and had great respect for him. Then after that, I had it in my mind a minute ago but my mind's gone ...

[Assistant] Robert Warner?

[User] Robert Warner, yes. He was also a dedicated man. And a very capable guy.

[Assistant] Did you have any direct contact with him during the independence movement?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh dear! That's a hard question. I'm not sure I saw any changes. I'm afraid I didn't, it varied with the Archivist. Bert Rhoads was Archivist when I came on. Because I worked in educational programs with a small staff, right under the Archivist, I got to know him real well and liked him and had great respect for him. Then after that, I had it in my mind a minute ago but my mind's gone ...

[Assistant] Robert Warner?

[User] Robert Warner, yes. He was also a dedicated man. And a very capable guy.

[Assistant] Did you have any direct contact with him during the independence movement?

[User] Yes, a good deal.

[Assistant] What was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Robert Warner, yes. He was also a dedicated man. And a very capable guy.

[Assistant] Did you have any direct contact with him during the independence movement?

[User] Yes, a good deal.

[Assistant] What was that?

[User] Well, he came to some of our meetings and was very much with us on that. And he was very glad that we were doing what we were doing.

[Assistant] Do you remember the celebration of independence?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, a good deal.

[Assistant] What was that?

[User] Well, he came to some of our meetings and was very much with us on that. And he was very glad that we were doing what we were doing.

[Assistant] Do you remember the celebration of independence?

[User] No. [Laughs]

[Assistant] Remember they had the whole staff out on the steps on Independence and they took a picture of us?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, he came to some of our meetings and was very much with us on that. And he was very glad that we were doing what we were doing.

[Assistant] Do you remember the celebration of independence?

[User] No. [Laughs]

[Assistant] Remember they had the whole staff out on the steps on Independence and they took a picture of us?

[User] Oh! Yes! Yes, and I was the last person in the top corner, on the left of that picture.

[Assistant] Did you see any changes in the administrative work of the National Archives over the time that you were here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. [Laughs]

[Assistant] Remember they had the whole staff out on the steps on Independence and they took a picture of us?

[User] Oh! Yes! Yes, and I was the last person in the top corner, on the left of that picture.

[Assistant] Did you see any changes in the administrative work of the National Archives over the time that you were here?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] You were fortunate that your supervisor seemed to allow you to work on your own.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh! Yes! Yes, and I was the last person in the top corner, on the left of that picture.

[Assistant] Did you see any changes in the administrative work of the National Archives over the time that you were here?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] You were fortunate that your supervisor seemed to allow you to work on your own.

[User] Oh absolutely. [Laughs]

[Assistant] You were fortunate.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] You were fortunate that your supervisor seemed to allow you to work on your own.

[User] Oh absolutely. [Laughs]

[Assistant] You were fortunate.

[User] Yes. And I think that I allowed the people who worked for me to work on their own. I talked with them about what needed to be done and asked how it was going and then edited the results.

[Assistant] Jim O'Neill was known as someone who supported young women and women in the Archives, did you ever have any contact with him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh absolutely. [Laughs]

[Assistant] You were fortunate.

[User] Yes. And I think that I allowed the people who worked for me to work on their own. I talked with them about what needed to be done and asked how it was going and then edited the results.

[Assistant] Jim O'Neill was known as someone who supported young women and women in the Archives, did you ever have any contact with him?

[User] Oh yeah, I knew Jim. I remember when I got in trouble, when I was editor of the American Archivist, I got in trouble with the GSA and he came in and told me he that was sorry I had gotten in trouble, but because I was working for the Society of American Archivists which had come into problems with Jim's boss, he couldn't help me at all. So, he apologized and I could understand that.

[Assistant] What was it like to be the editor of the American Archivist?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And I think that I allowed the people who worked for me to work on their own. I talked with them about what needed to be done and asked how it was going and then edited the results.

[Assistant] Jim O'Neill was known as someone who supported young women and women in the Archives, did you ever have any contact with him?

[User] Oh yeah, I knew Jim. I remember when I got in trouble, when I was editor of the American Archivist, I got in trouble with the GSA and he came in and told me he that was sorry I had gotten in trouble, but because I was working for the Society of American Archivists which had come into problems with Jim's boss, he couldn't help me at all. So, he apologized and I could understand that.

[Assistant] What was it like to be the editor of the American Archivist?

[User] Well, I did a lot of editing.

[Assistant] How many years did you work on that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, I knew Jim. I remember when I got in trouble, when I was editor of the American Archivist, I got in trouble with the GSA and he came in and told me he that was sorry I had gotten in trouble, but because I was working for the Society of American Archivists which had come into problems with Jim's boss, he couldn't help me at all. So, he apologized and I could understand that.

[Assistant] What was it like to be the editor of the American Archivist?

[User] Well, I did a lot of editing.

[Assistant] How many years did you work on that?

[User] Three years.

[Assistant] Had you been a member ofthe Society?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I did a lot of editing.

[Assistant] How many years did you work on that?

[User] Three years.

[Assistant] Had you been a member ofthe Society?

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Were you an active member?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Three years.

[Assistant] Had you been a member ofthe Society?

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Were you an active member?

[User] Yes, very active. I was on the council and was a fellow and of course went to all the meetings. I was very much interested in that.

[Assistant] You must have thought that that helped your own work at the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Were you an active member?

[User] Yes, very active. I was on the council and was a fellow and of course went to all the meetings. I was very much interested in that.

[Assistant] You must have thought that that helped your own work at the National Archives?

[User] No, No! [laughs]

[Assistant] You just wanted to be part of a national organization.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, very active. I was on the council and was a fellow and of course went to all the meetings. I was very much interested in that.

[Assistant] You must have thought that that helped your own work at the National Archives?

[User] No, No! [laughs]

[Assistant] You just wanted to be part of a national organization.

[User] Yes and the editor of the American Archivist had always been a staff member of the National Archives. So I was given a lot of freedom in that.

[Assistant] What did you do in your last years at the National Archives?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, No! [laughs]

[Assistant] You just wanted to be part of a national organization.

[User] Yes and the editor of the American Archivist had always been a staff member of the National Archives. So I was given a lot of freedom in that.

[Assistant] What did you do in your last years at the National Archives?

[User] That was when I was supervising the creation of inventories and guides. Five years.

[Assistant] For five years. Was there any significant turning point in your career?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes and the editor of the American Archivist had always been a staff member of the National Archives. So I was given a lot of freedom in that.

[Assistant] What did you do in your last years at the National Archives?

[User] That was when I was supervising the creation of inventories and guides. Five years.

[Assistant] For five years. Was there any significant turning point in your career?

[User] No. [laughs] I just took what came.

[Assistant] Did you enjoy your last years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was when I was supervising the creation of inventories and guides. Five years.

[Assistant] For five years. Was there any significant turning point in your career?

[User] No. [laughs] I just took what came.

[Assistant] Did you enjoy your last years?

[User] Yes! In fact the only reason I retired was that I had seen some other elderly archivists hanging on to their jobs and that kept younger men and women from moving up, because the older people had the top jobs. So I decided it was time for me to go and I went. [laughs]

[Assistant] Who was the Archivist when you retired?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. [laughs] I just took what came.

[Assistant] Did you enjoy your last years?

[User] Yes! In fact the only reason I retired was that I had seen some other elderly archivists hanging on to their jobs and that kept younger men and women from moving up, because the older people had the top jobs. So I decided it was time for me to go and I went. [laughs]

[Assistant] Who was the Archivist when you retired?

[User] Don Wilson. He had just come in and he sent me a lovely letter. And I'm not sure he would have known me if! had met him in the hall because he was that early in his job when I left.

[Assistant] Who was the Assistant Archivist when you retired?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes! In fact the only reason I retired was that I had seen some other elderly archivists hanging on to their jobs and that kept younger men and women from moving up, because the older people had the top jobs. So I decided it was time for me to go and I went. [laughs]

[Assistant] Who was the Archivist when you retired?

[User] Don Wilson. He had just come in and he sent me a lovely letter. And I'm not sure he would have known me if! had met him in the hall because he was that early in his job when I left.

[Assistant] Who was the Assistant Archivist when you retired?

[User] No idea.

[Assistant] Was it Mr. Moore?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Don Wilson. He had just come in and he sent me a lovely letter. And I'm not sure he would have known me if! had met him in the hall because he was that early in his job when I left.

[Assistant] Who was the Assistant Archivist when you retired?

[User] No idea.

[Assistant] Was it Mr. Moore?

[User] Could've been.

[Assistant] Would you offer to young people the idea working in the National Archives as a great way to pursue your career?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No idea.

[Assistant] Was it Mr. Moore?

[User] Could've been.

[Assistant] Would you offer to young people the idea working in the National Archives as a great way to pursue your career?

[User] Yes! Yes!

[Assistant] Did you ever have a chance to move somewhere else out of the National Archives while you were here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Could've been.

[Assistant] Would you offer to young people the idea working in the National Archives as a great way to pursue your career?

[User] Yes! Yes!

[Assistant] Did you ever have a chance to move somewhere else out of the National Archives while you were here?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And you didn't seek it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes! Yes!

[Assistant] Did you ever have a chance to move somewhere else out of the National Archives while you were here?

[User] No.

[Assistant] And you didn't seek it?

[User] No!

[Assistant] What was your most memorable or defining experience? It could be ' Admiral Freeman. [laughs]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hello.

[Assistant] Would you prefer to be called Dick?

[User] You can call me Richard.

[Assistant] Okay. Awesome. So, Richard, can you please share with your listeners a little bit about your background, your family life, and basically what you were doing before Peace Corps?

[User] I grew up in western Massachusetts. My father was a pharmacist. He owned a drugstore in a small town called Stockbridge, Mass. I had one sister. And in college, which was the University of Massachusetts, I majored in government. And it was during that period of time that Kennedy announced the formation of the Peace Corps. And it interested me. And so I applied for it.

[Assistant] So the first time you heard of Peace Corps was through President Kennedy's speech?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You can call me Richard.

[Assistant] Okay. Awesome. So, Richard, can you please share with your listeners a little bit about your background, your family life, and basically what you were doing before Peace Corps?

[User] I grew up in western Massachusetts. My father was a pharmacist. He owned a drugstore in a small town called Stockbridge, Mass. I had one sister. And in college, which was the University of Massachusetts, I majored in government. And it was during that period of time that Kennedy announced the formation of the Peace Corps. And it interested me. And so I applied for it.

[Assistant] So the first time you heard of Peace Corps was through President Kennedy's speech?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Okay. And what was it about service that, that sparked your curiosity and interest into joining?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I grew up in western Massachusetts. My father was a pharmacist. He owned a drugstore in a small town called Stockbridge, Mass. I had one sister. And in college, which was the University of Massachusetts, I majored in government. And it was during that period of time that Kennedy announced the formation of the Peace Corps. And it interested me. And so I applied for it.

[Assistant] So the first time you heard of Peace Corps was through President Kennedy's speech?

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Okay. And what was it about service that, that sparked your curiosity and interest into joining?

[User] Well, it's a long time ago, uh, over half a century. But I think for a lot of us, idealistic liberal arts majors, if you will, the idea of being of service to our country and doing something of value for people in other countries was appealing. So that's why I applied.

[Assistant] And were you already in your career during that time when you applied?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's a long time ago, uh, over half a century. But I think for a lot of us, idealistic liberal arts majors, if you will, the idea of being of service to our country and doing something of value for people in other countries was appealing. So that's why I applied.

[Assistant] And were you already in your career during that time when you applied?

[User] No, I graduated from college in 1963.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And, uh, and then I went right into, I applied during my senior year, and I went into training at Syracuse University in the summer of 1963.

[Assistant] And how long after you? Well, first of all, the program that you ended up in, did you select adult, excuse me, elementary education as your program or was that assigned to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I graduated from college in 1963.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] And, uh, and then I went right into, I applied during my senior year, and I went into training at Syracuse University in the summer of 1963.

[Assistant] And how long after you? Well, first of all, the program that you ended up in, did you select adult, excuse me, elementary education as your program or was that assigned to you?

[User] Well, of course, they reviewed our background and our capabilities. Um, I was never great at languages, so they selected me for a English speaking country. And a lot of us back then really didn't have a, any kind of trade of some sort that would enable us to go into farming or something like that. So. There was also a lot of need for teachers, so they put me in a teacher program.

[Assistant] How soon after your application did you receive your invitation to serve?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, and then I went right into, I applied during my senior year, and I went into training at Syracuse University in the summer of 1963.

[Assistant] And how long after you? Well, first of all, the program that you ended up in, did you select adult, excuse me, elementary education as your program or was that assigned to you?

[User] Well, of course, they reviewed our background and our capabilities. Um, I was never great at languages, so they selected me for a English speaking country. And a lot of us back then really didn't have a, any kind of trade of some sort that would enable us to go into farming or something like that. So. There was also a lot of need for teachers, so they put me in a teacher program.

[Assistant] How soon after your application did you receive your invitation to serve?

[User] That's a hard question to answer. It's been so long. I can't remember exactly when I applied. It was sometime during my senior year, I'm sure, and it was probably months.

[Assistant] So how did you feel once you received it? Do you recall that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, of course, they reviewed our background and our capabilities. Um, I was never great at languages, so they selected me for a English speaking country. And a lot of us back then really didn't have a, any kind of trade of some sort that would enable us to go into farming or something like that. So. There was also a lot of need for teachers, so they put me in a teacher program.

[Assistant] How soon after your application did you receive your invitation to serve?

[User] That's a hard question to answer. It's been so long. I can't remember exactly when I applied. It was sometime during my senior year, I'm sure, and it was probably months.

[Assistant] So how did you feel once you received it? Do you recall that?

[User] I'm sure I felt elated. I can't, I can only assume that that's how I felt. Yes.

[Assistant] How did your family respond to your announcement that you were going overseas to serve?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's a hard question to answer. It's been so long. I can't remember exactly when I applied. It was sometime during my senior year, I'm sure, and it was probably months.

[Assistant] So how did you feel once you received it? Do you recall that?

[User] I'm sure I felt elated. I can't, I can only assume that that's how I felt. Yes.

[Assistant] How did your family respond to your announcement that you were going overseas to serve?

[User] They were very positive. I didn't have any, you know, my, my dad and at that time my stepmother didn't show any, any kind of concern or, you know, problems with my, with my going over. So I was happy that they supported me.

[Assistant] Now, before starting your official training in Syracuse, what did you personally do to prepare yourself for your service?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sure I felt elated. I can't, I can only assume that that's how I felt. Yes.

[Assistant] How did your family respond to your announcement that you were going overseas to serve?

[User] They were very positive. I didn't have any, you know, my, my dad and at that time my stepmother didn't show any, any kind of concern or, you know, problems with my, with my going over. So I was happy that they supported me.

[Assistant] Now, before starting your official training in Syracuse, what did you personally do to prepare yourself for your service?

[User] Well, that's, I don't, I don't frankly recall, to tell you the truth. It's been so long. I mean, I packed a suitcase and did whatever they told me to do. And, you know, if they sent me things to fill out, I filled them out.

[Assistant] How did you get to Syracuse?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that's, I don't, I don't frankly recall, to tell you the truth. It's been so long. I mean, I packed a suitcase and did whatever they told me to do. And, you know, if they sent me things to fill out, I filled them out.

[Assistant] How did you get to Syracuse?

[User] I think I probably drove.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah, it wasn't that long. It was probably a four, 4 or 5 hour trip.

[Assistant] And so how long were you in Syracuse before you had to go to Liberia, would you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think I probably drove.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah, it wasn't that long. It was probably a four, 4 or 5 hour trip.

[Assistant] And so how long were you in Syracuse before you had to go to Liberia, would you?

[User] I don't remember exactly how long the training was. Maybe six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was during the summer of '63. So 6 or 8 weeks, whatever they had.

[Assistant] What was your training like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it wasn't that long. It was probably a four, 4 or 5 hour trip.

[Assistant] And so how long were you in Syracuse before you had to go to Liberia, would you?

[User] I don't remember exactly how long the training was. Maybe six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was during the summer of '63. So 6 or 8 weeks, whatever they had.

[Assistant] What was your training like?

[User] Well, there was a piece that, uh, that spoke to us about health. They certainly wanted us to be healthy over there. So we learned about the various concerns that they had and what to do with that. Malaria, of course, was a, you know, endemic in Liberia. So they talked about that, dysentery and so forth. They wanted us to be physically fit. So there were various kinds of physical education, physical kinds of things we had to do. And the other thing, the other piece would have been preparing us to, as teachers. They really didn't know too much of what we would be facing, but they gave us some general educational principles to be following. So I would say, looking back over half a century, those were the, the three areas that they focused on primarily.

[Assistant] And so you took a flight after training to head over to Liberia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember exactly how long the training was. Maybe six weeks, maybe eight weeks. It was during the summer of '63. So 6 or 8 weeks, whatever they had.

[Assistant] What was your training like?

[User] Well, there was a piece that, uh, that spoke to us about health. They certainly wanted us to be healthy over there. So we learned about the various concerns that they had and what to do with that. Malaria, of course, was a, you know, endemic in Liberia. So they talked about that, dysentery and so forth. They wanted us to be physically fit. So there were various kinds of physical education, physical kinds of things we had to do. And the other thing, the other piece would have been preparing us to, as teachers. They really didn't know too much of what we would be facing, but they gave us some general educational principles to be following. So I would say, looking back over half a century, those were the, the three areas that they focused on primarily.

[Assistant] And so you took a flight after training to head over to Liberia?

[User] There were 163 of us, I believe.

[Assistant] Wow. Huge group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was a piece that, uh, that spoke to us about health. They certainly wanted us to be healthy over there. So we learned about the various concerns that they had and what to do with that. Malaria, of course, was a, you know, endemic in Liberia. So they talked about that, dysentery and so forth. They wanted us to be physically fit. So there were various kinds of physical education, physical kinds of things we had to do. And the other thing, the other piece would have been preparing us to, as teachers. They really didn't know too much of what we would be facing, but they gave us some general educational principles to be following. So I would say, looking back over half a century, those were the, the three areas that they focused on primarily.

[Assistant] And so you took a flight after training to head over to Liberia?

[User] There were 163 of us, I believe.

[Assistant] Wow. Huge group.

[User] The third, the third group.

[Assistant] The third group for Liberia. And what did, what was it like when you finally arrived?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were 163 of us, I believe.

[Assistant] Wow. Huge group.

[User] The third, the third group.

[Assistant] The third group for Liberia. And what did, what was it like when you finally arrived?

[User] Well, you know, it's, uh, we arrived at Robertsfield. Now, Liberia has a big Firestone rubber plantation. And Robertsfield was built to service that rubber plantation. It was about, I would say, 50 miles from Monrovia, the capital, where we, where we would be going for in-country training. And it was the middle of the monsoon season. The September month is probably the rainiest month in Liberia. So what struck us most was the, the smell of mildew and just moisture everywhere. And, uh, that particular month, they normally get about 15 inches of rain. So every day it was cloudy and every day it rained and, and mold and mildew was everywhere. And that was, that was probably the one thing that I can remember about that, that particular time. And it was, it was something. So we had, we had about, I don't know, 4 or 5 days of orientation, if you will.

[Assistant] And during that orientation, the 4 to 5 days in Monrovia, did you immediately go to your village where you would be serving for the next two years from there? Or were you hosted by a family in Monrovia to help you acclimate to the life and language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The third, the third group.

[Assistant] The third group for Liberia. And what did, what was it like when you finally arrived?

[User] Well, you know, it's, uh, we arrived at Robertsfield. Now, Liberia has a big Firestone rubber plantation. And Robertsfield was built to service that rubber plantation. It was about, I would say, 50 miles from Monrovia, the capital, where we, where we would be going for in-country training. And it was the middle of the monsoon season. The September month is probably the rainiest month in Liberia. So what struck us most was the, the smell of mildew and just moisture everywhere. And, uh, that particular month, they normally get about 15 inches of rain. So every day it was cloudy and every day it rained and, and mold and mildew was everywhere. And that was, that was probably the one thing that I can remember about that, that particular time. And it was, it was something. So we had, we had about, I don't know, 4 or 5 days of orientation, if you will.

[Assistant] And during that orientation, the 4 to 5 days in Monrovia, did you immediately go to your village where you would be serving for the next two years from there? Or were you hosted by a family in Monrovia to help you acclimate to the life and language?

[User] No, we, uh, they put us up in a, in an apartment building. And there was no hosting or anything of that nature. And after various meetings and so forth, we were sent to, to our post.

[Assistant] And what was the name of your village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, it's, uh, we arrived at Robertsfield. Now, Liberia has a big Firestone rubber plantation. And Robertsfield was built to service that rubber plantation. It was about, I would say, 50 miles from Monrovia, the capital, where we, where we would be going for in-country training. And it was the middle of the monsoon season. The September month is probably the rainiest month in Liberia. So what struck us most was the, the smell of mildew and just moisture everywhere. And, uh, that particular month, they normally get about 15 inches of rain. So every day it was cloudy and every day it rained and, and mold and mildew was everywhere. And that was, that was probably the one thing that I can remember about that, that particular time. And it was, it was something. So we had, we had about, I don't know, 4 or 5 days of orientation, if you will.

[Assistant] And during that orientation, the 4 to 5 days in Monrovia, did you immediately go to your village where you would be serving for the next two years from there? Or were you hosted by a family in Monrovia to help you acclimate to the life and language?

[User] No, we, uh, they put us up in a, in an apartment building. And there was no hosting or anything of that nature. And after various meetings and so forth, we were sent to, to our post.

[Assistant] And what was the name of your village?

[User] Ganta, Liberia. It was more of a town, actually. It was on the Guinea border. It was a crossroads and fairly bustling, actually.

[Assistant] So can you spell that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we, uh, they put us up in a, in an apartment building. And there was no hosting or anything of that nature. And after various meetings and so forth, we were sent to, to our post.

[Assistant] And what was the name of your village?

[User] Ganta, Liberia. It was more of a town, actually. It was on the Guinea border. It was a crossroads and fairly bustling, actually.

[Assistant] So can you spell that?

[User] G-A-N-T-A. It was about, um, I would say, 150 miles from the, from the capital, Monrovia. And, uh. So.

[Assistant] Can you describe this small city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ganta, Liberia. It was more of a town, actually. It was on the Guinea border. It was a crossroads and fairly bustling, actually.

[Assistant] So can you spell that?

[User] G-A-N-T-A. It was about, um, I would say, 150 miles from the, from the capital, Monrovia. And, uh. So.

[Assistant] Can you describe this small city?

[User] Well, I would, actually I wouldn't say it was a city. It was a large town, more of a large town. It had a lot of Lebanese stores. Lebanese were the primary merchants throughout Liberia, as a matter of fact. It had one Mobil gas station. It, um, it was a crossroads, as I say, there was another main road that went down to another part of Liberia. And, um, like I said, it was on, right, right there. There was a border right, right there. I went by the border, the Guinea border, every day. There was a Methodist mission there. There was a hospital on the mission grounds. There was a leper colony. And there was a school. So, uh. And then there were various Liberian, a lot of thatched roof huts, and a lot of zinc roofed houses, one of which I lived in.

[Assistant] What is the zinc, uh, zinc roofed house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] G-A-N-T-A. It was about, um, I would say, 150 miles from the, from the capital, Monrovia. And, uh. So.

[Assistant] Can you describe this small city?

[User] Well, I would, actually I wouldn't say it was a city. It was a large town, more of a large town. It had a lot of Lebanese stores. Lebanese were the primary merchants throughout Liberia, as a matter of fact. It had one Mobil gas station. It, um, it was a crossroads, as I say, there was another main road that went down to another part of Liberia. And, um, like I said, it was on, right, right there. There was a border right, right there. I went by the border, the Guinea border, every day. There was a Methodist mission there. There was a hospital on the mission grounds. There was a leper colony. And there was a school. So, uh. And then there were various Liberian, a lot of thatched roof huts, and a lot of zinc roofed houses, one of which I lived in.

[Assistant] What is the zinc, uh, zinc roofed house?

[User] Well, uh, it's made out of mud brick that has a kind of a cement plaster, so it's a white plaster, plastered over with and painted white, with a roof made out of zinc. And typically square and, uh. So.

[Assistant] How did your community receive you upon your arrival?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very, very positive. Very positive. Um. I had a housemate. There were two other women. Actually, there were four, four Peace Corps women there. Two were on the, uh, on the mission. And they were, so they were, they had assigned four of us to the school. So. But we were received very well. But we did have to, we did replace some, some teachers, some Liberian teachers. We came in the middle of the school year. The school year started in March and ended, March till December. So we got there in the middle of the, middle of the year, so they had to do some moving around. And I don't frankly know what happened to the teachers. They had to move. But some were moved in order to make, make room for us.

[Assistant] And were those four other volunteers, excuse me, three other volunteers, were they part of your training group or were they?

[User] All part of our training group, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Except for the two. Well, I will say this. There was a group, Group II people were on the mission. The Group III, my group, there were four of us, the two women and my housemate and myself. So.

[Assistant] So what was the living like in Ganta for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All part of our training group, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Except for the two. Well, I will say this. There was a group, Group II people were on the mission. The Group III, my group, there were four of us, the two women and my housemate and myself. So.

[Assistant] So what was the living like in Ganta for you?

[User]
Well, uh. We had a very large house which easily accommodated my housemate, but we were also kind of a storage depot and we sort of had a part time roommate. That is to say, the Peace Corps leader, if you will. The one that actually a nice, nice way of saying truck driver, but he had a very important thing. He had, he was the one that brought supplies. He brought mail. And since we were centrally located, he would oftentimes when he was there, before going on to the next town, which was far away, he would stay overnight. So there was a bed for him and there was a room for all the stuff that he was bringing. Sometimes there was a truck that came in and we would unload the truck and put it. These trucks would have things, for example, books, this nature, supplies for the various, various posts.

So, um. It was, it was. There was no electricity, but we did have a kerosene stove. We had a kerosene refrigerator. So that was nice. At the time, we actually had a shower, which was, um, didn't last very long, but it was gravity feed and there was this big barrel and that took in rainwater. And then it worked until the dry season. And then, of course, more rain. And then there was a latrine. So that was. And then as far as furniture, you know, we, I think there was a table and a few chairs and beds and that was about it.

[Assistant] So how did your training prepare you to be an elementary school teacher?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have not.

[Assistant] And going back to something you mentioned earlier about some of the difficulties you had in the, in teaching. How did you find, uh, did you see any concerns with literacy levels and how did you overcome that?

[User] Well. I mean, that's a big problem and I'm not sure I did overcome it. I mean, you know, you just, you just go in and do the best you can. Um, I mean, there was adult literacy program that, um, I didn't. I was not really prepared to be able to teach adults, but I did for, for a time drive the car for a Methodist missionary. We drove down to another town, and she taught adults literacy. So I sort of helped out there. But the, the students I had, they were fourth. So they had, they had some knowledge, they, you know, of reading and writing when I got them.

[Assistant] And earlier, you also mentioned something about their language being, um, I think you called it the Mano tribe. Can you explain what that means?

[User] Well, the name of the tribe was Mano, there are I think about 28 tribes in Liberia, okay? And I'm assuming that that particular language, I'm making the assumption that the particular language did not, did not have ending consonants. Okay. Because when I'd hear them talk, when I heard them talk, I didn't hear any, any in the. In the English, they just dropped all consonants in English. So, uh, no. I can't say anything more than that.

[Assistant] Okay. So I would like for you to please explain some of the incredible experiences you had in your town. Basically, things that were maybe shocking, or the most happiest you've been while there, or even those that were the saddest. Can you describe some of those experiences, if you had any?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When I got back, I went, I went to graduate school and got a degree in education, okay? And then I went and I taught for a year in Westport, Connecticut. Westport, Connecticut is a wealthy town. Um, just a lot of very, a lot of rich people there. And I taught in a junior high. And I couldn't take the kids. They were snotty little rich kids. So I came to Washington and I applied, I applied for a job in the public schools in D.C. And I was among, you know, in a, in an all Black school, almost 95 percent Black school. And I felt much more comfortable. Okay. So I think that's probably impacted my life that way.

[Assistant] Did you always know you wanted to go into education before Peace Corps?

[User] Well, my mother had been an elementary school teacher. My aunt was a music teacher and her husband, my uncle, was assistant principal. My grandfather was a superintendent. There was a lot of education in the family. So it was just sort of like that's what I did. That's how I got involved, I think.

[Assistant] What did, what did you do while you were in service and even after your service ended to, to display or to continue working those three Peace Corps goals? The first, of course, being that we want to make sure Americans are, are more fully aware and less ignorant about cultures they're unfamiliar with. How did, how did you meet that goal?

[User] Well, it's not like I've joined any particular organization. But I think it comes out in conversations over the course of time. You bring it up and you talk about it. You talk about your experiences and sort of educate people that way. So I've had opportunities over the years to do that certainly.

[Assistant] And the next goal. How did you help Liberians to better understand America, Americans, and American values?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, my mother had been an elementary school teacher. My aunt was a music teacher and her husband, my uncle, was assistant principal. My grandfather was a superintendent. There was a lot of education in the family. So it was just sort of like that's what I did. That's how I got involved, I think.

[Assistant] What did, what did you do while you were in service and even after your service ended to, to display or to continue working those three Peace Corps goals? The first, of course, being that we want to make sure Americans are, are more fully aware and less ignorant about cultures they're unfamiliar with. How did, how did you meet that goal?

[User] Well, it's not like I've joined any particular organization. But I think it comes out in conversations over the course of time. You bring it up and you talk about it. You talk about your experiences and sort of educate people that way. So I've had opportunities over the years to do that certainly.

[Assistant] And the next goal. How did you help Liberians to better understand America, Americans, and American values?

[User] I think that, that Liberians, and I don't want to speak for us in general, saw as, saw as, us as genuine people that were not out to cheat them or what have you. I mean, there was a fair amount of corruption, I have to say. And the term they used was eating the money. Eating, you know, we ate the money. Okay. You, he ran off with it. And I think that that's one of the things we did. And I'm not saying that I necessarily did it, but I think that, in general, the Peace Corps was uncorruptible. In other words, we're not out there to cheat anybody. That wasn't what we were there for. And I think that's, that's something that they saw as an American value.

[Assistant] And do you know if Peace Corps is still in Liberia today?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's not like I've joined any particular organization. But I think it comes out in conversations over the course of time. You bring it up and you talk about it. You talk about your experiences and sort of educate people that way. So I've had opportunities over the years to do that certainly.

[Assistant] And the next goal. How did you help Liberians to better understand America, Americans, and American values?

[User] I think that, that Liberians, and I don't want to speak for us in general, saw as, saw as, us as genuine people that were not out to cheat them or what have you. I mean, there was a fair amount of corruption, I have to say. And the term they used was eating the money. Eating, you know, we ate the money. Okay. You, he ran off with it. And I think that that's one of the things we did. And I'm not saying that I necessarily did it, but I think that, in general, the Peace Corps was uncorruptible. In other words, we're not out there to cheat anybody. That wasn't what we were there for. And I think that's, that's something that they saw as an American value.

[Assistant] And do you know if Peace Corps is still in Liberia today?

[User] I think they are. Now they had a period of time when, you know, they had a revolution in 1980. People were executed. So I don't know to what extent you know about, you know, that. But anyway, yeah. They've gone through a lot and they're coming back. But, um. So.

[Assistant] Looking back on your service, would, would you describe to your listeners what you believe were your major accomplishments? If you had any regrets, as well, if you could share those? Successes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A bunch of us chartered a big airplane. We went over to East Africa for a vacation, and, uh, that was an experience.

[Assistant] How so?

[User]
We went to Kenya, Nairobi. And the difference was, was remarkable. First of all, the climate was totally different. And, you know, the game parks and so forth were there. And I even went up to Ethiopia and had a chance to do some touring up there. We spent three weeks, so that was, that was nice. That was nice.

And also, let's see, what else did I do? I helped, we helped to build, I helped to build on one of my vacations another school.

[Assistant] Where?

[User] Not, not far from Monrovia. Mostly it was just digging. Shoveling dirt.

[Assistant] And do you know if any of the schools you helped build?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
We went to Kenya, Nairobi. And the difference was, was remarkable. First of all, the climate was totally different. And, you know, the game parks and so forth were there. And I even went up to Ethiopia and had a chance to do some touring up there. We spent three weeks, so that was, that was nice. That was nice.

And also, let's see, what else did I do? I helped, we helped to build, I helped to build on one of my vacations another school.

[Assistant] Where?

[User] Not, not far from Monrovia. Mostly it was just digging. Shoveling dirt.

[Assistant] And do you know if any of the schools you helped build?

[User] It was just one.

[Assistant] Oh, just one. Is it still standing today?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not, not far from Monrovia. Mostly it was just digging. Shoveling dirt.

[Assistant] And do you know if any of the schools you helped build?

[User] It was just one.

[Assistant] Oh, just one. Is it still standing today?

[User] I'm going to assume so, but I've learned not to, I've learned that this time of my life, I, um, about half of my assumptions that I make are true, come true.

[Assistant] So other than the malaria scare and the amoebas that you had to deal with, were there any other scary things that just shocked you? Did you ever have a moment of, I think I want to go home, basically?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm going to assume so, but I've learned not to, I've learned that this time of my life, I, um, about half of my assumptions that I make are true, come true.

[Assistant] So other than the malaria scare and the amoebas that you had to deal with, were there any other scary things that just shocked you? Did you ever have a moment of, I think I want to go home, basically?

[User] No.

[Assistant] No?

[User] No. I felt that the way of, of dealing with it. You know, toward the end, you know, I have, I have been in preparing for this interview, I went through all the letters. I have about 30 letters that I wrote that were given back to me so I could read them over again. Toward the end, you know, I was, my letters home were, what's next, you know? Graduate school and maybe going through Europe and so forth. Um. But, um, what was the question again?

[Assistant] It was basically, um. Well, I just went blank as well. Sorry about that. But the question. It will come back to me. It will come back to me. Uh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] No?

[User] No. I felt that the way of, of dealing with it. You know, toward the end, you know, I have, I have been in preparing for this interview, I went through all the letters. I have about 30 letters that I wrote that were given back to me so I could read them over again. Toward the end, you know, I was, my letters home were, what's next, you know? Graduate school and maybe going through Europe and so forth. Um. But, um, what was the question again?

[Assistant] It was basically, um. Well, I just went blank as well. Sorry about that. But the question. It will come back to me. It will come back to me. Uh.

[User] Give me another question.

[Assistant] Well, it escaped me. Yes, it escaped me, but, um. But. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. You were referring to the, to the school and not making assumptions as to whether or not it's still standing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I felt that the way of, of dealing with it. You know, toward the end, you know, I have, I have been in preparing for this interview, I went through all the letters. I have about 30 letters that I wrote that were given back to me so I could read them over again. Toward the end, you know, I was, my letters home were, what's next, you know? Graduate school and maybe going through Europe and so forth. Um. But, um, what was the question again?

[Assistant] It was basically, um. Well, I just went blank as well. Sorry about that. But the question. It will come back to me. It will come back to me. Uh.

[User] Give me another question.

[Assistant] Well, it escaped me. Yes, it escaped me, but, um. But. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. You were referring to the, to the school and not making assumptions as to whether or not it's still standing.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. But, um, we can move on to the next question since we both clearly lost our train of thought.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Give me another question.

[Assistant] Well, it escaped me. Yes, it escaped me, but, um. But. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. You were referring to the, to the school and not making assumptions as to whether or not it's still standing.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. But, um, we can move on to the next question since we both clearly lost our train of thought.

[User] Oh, other people, and, and, um. Other volunteers. There were some that left.

[Assistant] That was the question. Did you ever feel at any point you wanted to go home? Yes.