[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes ... I think also there was some contribution with regard to non-textual records; not so much with cartographic records, but with motion pictures and sound recordings where we had some things to teach them and they were willing to learn. I think there was a good exchange with the British-and their new building... have you been to Kew to see what they're building? (

[Assistant]
yes ...) They've done some good things. I also have a great deal ofrespect for the Canadians, who contributed greatly internationally, too.

And now they've just merged their library and the archives ... interesting model.

[User] Who's currently the archivist?

[Assistant] Hugh [Taylor].

[User] Yes ... I'm thinking of Hugh with the glasses, former Englishmen .. .let's see it was Wilson (

[Assistant]
Ian Wilson) Ian Wilson, oh yes, I remember him, too.

Prior to this he was the provincial archivist for Ontario.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Who's currently the archivist?

[Assistant] Hugh [Taylor].

[User] Yes ... I'm thinking of Hugh with the glasses, former Englishmen .. .let's see it was Wilson (

[Assistant]
Ian Wilson) Ian Wilson, oh yes, I remember him, too.

Prior to this he was the provincial archivist for Ontario.

[User] Ontario, right- yes, they've got a good program, good archival program. I've always admired them.

[Assistant] Frank is there any question, or anything that we haven't covered that you want to share from a legacy perspective about the institution, about your career, or anything?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes ... I'm thinking of Hugh with the glasses, former Englishmen .. .let's see it was Wilson (

[Assistant]
Ian Wilson) Ian Wilson, oh yes, I remember him, too.

Prior to this he was the provincial archivist for Ontario.

[User] Ontario, right- yes, they've got a good program, good archival program. I've always admired them.

[Assistant] Frank is there any question, or anything that we haven't covered that you want to share from a legacy perspective about the institution, about your career, or anything?

[User] I feel I've been fortunate in having a worthwhile career in essentially a service area. It has given me opportunities for professional growth, for personal satisfaction, for travel obviously. I feel it's a career that should prove attractive to people with a basic interest in this area, and willing to develop competence in this kind of work. I envy a young person starting their career now in archives.

[Assistant] I do too. It is changing so dramatically and it's so interesting. So if we had here somebody either considering a career or just starting as an archivist here, what kind of advice would you give them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ontario, right- yes, they've got a good program, good archival program. I've always admired them.

[Assistant] Frank is there any question, or anything that we haven't covered that you want to share from a legacy perspective about the institution, about your career, or anything?

[User] I feel I've been fortunate in having a worthwhile career in essentially a service area. It has given me opportunities for professional growth, for personal satisfaction, for travel obviously. I feel it's a career that should prove attractive to people with a basic interest in this area, and willing to develop competence in this kind of work. I envy a young person starting their career now in archives.

[Assistant] I do too. It is changing so dramatically and it's so interesting. So if we had here somebody either considering a career or just starting as an archivist here, what kind of advice would you give them?

[User] If they don't have the doctorate in history? I think that unless the person is motivated and demonstrates competence otherwise, they should master the informational content of a significant body of records in all media. That's where they can make their major contribution- both through the description of the records and through the servicing of them to the researcher. And that's what it really is all about.

[Assistant] Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate the time that you spent.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I started off at Michoud in 1983 and I moved to Houston about five years ago, in 2011.

[Assistant] Talk about some of the work that was going on there for Orion once you won the proposal.

[User] We knew that there were going to be several major elements of the next generation Constellation Program. Being on the External Tank Program, we thought that we had a good chance of winning the SLS [Space Launch System], the launch vehicle portion. We bid on the Crew Module portion, and a lot of people thought we didn’t have a shot at it, and were extremely pleased when we won the spacecraft portion of Constellation Program.\n\n Our role at the New Orleans facility was to develop all of the primary structures. We had the capability to develop the primary structures and all the thermal protection systems on the vehicle. Those were all the main roles at that location. We got started with a small team and grew the team as the program demanded.

[Assistant] How much did the team grow?

[User] It grew to about 250. We started phase one with about nine people, and accomplished all the proposal work, the performance reviews, and all the initial concept development with that small staff. Then when we needed to start producing drawings and accomplish development work we needed to grow the team a little bit at a time.

[Assistant] With the external tank work and then with [Space] Shuttle shutting down, I imagine the workforce still shrunk even though you were growing this team, correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It grew to about 250. We started phase one with about nine people, and accomplished all the proposal work, the performance reviews, and all the initial concept development with that small staff. Then when we needed to start producing drawings and accomplish development work we needed to grow the team a little bit at a time.

[Assistant] With the external tank work and then with [Space] Shuttle shutting down, I imagine the workforce still shrunk even though you were growing this team, correct?

[User] The whole time that we were working on Orion, the External Tank Program was starting to phase out. We had access to very good people with years of human spaceflight experience and we taped into that well of knowledge for Orion. We also leveraged years of NASA technology that had been developed around the External Tank Program and capitalized on advanced materials and welding processes for the Orion Program; we really stepped-up off of a very solid platform of human spaceflight technologies and developments.

[Assistant] Let’s talk about that time period when the cancelation of the Constellation Program in 2010 was announced. Then the MPCV [Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle] wasn’t announced until May 2011. At NASA, they were still funded, so they were having to continue to work on a canceled project. I know your teammate Carol [L. Webber], said they were working toward this idea for EFT-1 and let’s keep working, even though things are looking bad. Let’s try to prove that we can still do this sort of thing and change people’s minds. Talk about that time period and what you were doing. I know you moved here at some point. But you were still in New Orleans when all that was going on?

[User] The initial part of the cancelation I was in New Orleans, yes.

[Assistant] Do you want to talk about when you first heard about that and what you were doing immediately after that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At that point, I knew that I wasn't going to be a physicist.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Trying to figure out what I, what else I should do with my life.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And working with the dean of students had just, he had, um, Al, Albert [Allard] Lowenstein. Al Lowenstein had just come on the staff. And I got to know him and, you know, probably know Al from his work in New York City and so forth. And he was encouraging people to do good social work and join the Peace Corps and so forth. So he was quite an influence on my life. And as I told you today, I was, hadn't. I'd been working my way through school. And so I didn't have a lot of chance to go traveling or do any traveling. So I thought that was a good opportunity for me to join the Peace Corps, get some traveling, do some, do some good things.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Trying to figure out what I, what else I should do with my life.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And working with the dean of students had just, he had, um, Al, Albert [Allard] Lowenstein. Al Lowenstein had just come on the staff. And I got to know him and, you know, probably know Al from his work in New York City and so forth. And he was encouraging people to do good social work and join the Peace Corps and so forth. So he was quite an influence on my life. And as I told you today, I was, hadn't. I'd been working my way through school. And so I didn't have a lot of chance to go traveling or do any traveling. So I thought that was a good opportunity for me to join the Peace Corps, get some traveling, do some, do some good things.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up?

[User] I first grew up as a child in Hawaii during the Second World War. My father was, uh, was he wasn't a military, but he had. He was working as a foreman on the docks when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He wasn't hurt. Then we moved to Maui. And I grew up on Maui, basically.

[Assistant] Until what age?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And working with the dean of students had just, he had, um, Al, Albert [Allard] Lowenstein. Al Lowenstein had just come on the staff. And I got to know him and, you know, probably know Al from his work in New York City and so forth. And he was encouraging people to do good social work and join the Peace Corps and so forth. So he was quite an influence on my life. And as I told you today, I was, hadn't. I'd been working my way through school. And so I didn't have a lot of chance to go traveling or do any traveling. So I thought that was a good opportunity for me to join the Peace Corps, get some traveling, do some, do some good things.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's go back a little bit. Where did you grow up?

[User] I first grew up as a child in Hawaii during the Second World War. My father was, uh, was he wasn't a military, but he had. He was working as a foreman on the docks when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He wasn't hurt. Then we moved to Maui. And I grew up on Maui, basically.

[Assistant] Until what age?

[User] About age seven. And then we came back to the Bay Area here in San Francisco.

[Assistant] So most of your school years and everything were in San Francisco?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I first grew up as a child in Hawaii during the Second World War. My father was, uh, was he wasn't a military, but he had. He was working as a foreman on the docks when they bombed Pearl Harbor. He wasn't hurt. Then we moved to Maui. And I grew up on Maui, basically.

[Assistant] Until what age?

[User] About age seven. And then we came back to the Bay Area here in San Francisco.

[Assistant] So most of your school years and everything were in San Francisco?

[User] In San Francisco.

[Assistant] And are you an only child?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About age seven. And then we came back to the Bay Area here in San Francisco.

[Assistant] So most of your school years and everything were in San Francisco?

[User] In San Francisco.

[Assistant] And are you an only child?

[User] I have a sister, five years younger.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And growing up in high school, what kind of activities did you do? What did you do with your summertime? Did you do any travel?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And would go off on summers and work for them. So I worked my way through high school to great extent too. I went to Lowell High School in San Francisco, which was a college prep school, had a lot of a lot of wealthy society people there. I didn't have any concept of that whole society thing. And I was a swimmer.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] My father was a swimmer and he'd been to the Olympics. And so I would go to school, study, and come home. I'd go to school in the afternoons, go and swim a couple hours a day.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I ended up my last year, um.

[Assistant] In high school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My father was a swimmer and he'd been to the Olympics. And so I would go to school, study, and come home. I'd go to school in the afternoons, go and swim a couple hours a day.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I ended up my last year, um.

[Assistant] In high school?

[User] In high school, having done quite a lot of, as a very good swimmer. So I broke all the records and all that kind of stuff. And, um, it so happened that the high school coach of the swimming team was also the football coach. So he introduced me. And so, you know, I got all these awards and so forth. And just after that was the election for student body president. So I won for student body president. And so that, that and the application got me into Stanford basically, being able to.

[Assistant] Did you go in as a scholarship student?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I ended up my last year, um.

[Assistant] In high school?

[User] In high school, having done quite a lot of, as a very good swimmer. So I broke all the records and all that kind of stuff. And, um, it so happened that the high school coach of the swimming team was also the football coach. So he introduced me. And so, you know, I got all these awards and so forth. And just after that was the election for student body president. So I won for student body president. And so that, that and the application got me into Stanford basically, being able to.

[Assistant] Did you go in as a scholarship student?

[User] Yeah, I went as a. I went as a swimming scholarship, and then they later on put it over to an academic scholarship.

[Assistant] Right. And when you first started, how did, had you been interested in science?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, I started off in engineering because that was sort of the thing to do.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I really hadn't been, although I went to a good college prep school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And there were good teachers there. I really didn't know how to study. I didn't really know much. So when I hit Stanford, it was quite a lot of work for me just to get up to speed and, um, feeling. I felt a lot of conflict. And it was like, I remember my first year I would try to work, I'd read, I'd read a passage, I'd read the same page over and over and over again because I was trying so hard. I got to get this done, I got to get this done kind of thing. And it wasn't easy. So in fact, I didn't really learn how to really learn how to think and study until like until years later.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK. So let's jump now back to your senior year. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really hadn't been, although I went to a good college prep school.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And there were good teachers there. I really didn't know how to study. I didn't really know much. So when I hit Stanford, it was quite a lot of work for me just to get up to speed and, um, feeling. I felt a lot of conflict. And it was like, I remember my first year I would try to work, I'd read, I'd read a passage, I'd read the same page over and over and over again because I was trying so hard. I got to get this done, I got to get this done kind of thing. And it wasn't easy. So in fact, I didn't really learn how to really learn how to think and study until like until years later.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK. So let's jump now back to your senior year. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps?

[User] Kennedy was still president. And there's a lot of peace, a lot of Peace Corps stuff. So it was just in the news all the time at that point. They were starting the Peace Corps. And I guess, I don't know if I first heard about it there. There wasn't any recruiting on campus necessarily, I think.

[Assistant] Not in those days.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there were good teachers there. I really didn't know how to study. I didn't really know much. So when I hit Stanford, it was quite a lot of work for me just to get up to speed and, um, feeling. I felt a lot of conflict. And it was like, I remember my first year I would try to work, I'd read, I'd read a passage, I'd read the same page over and over and over again because I was trying so hard. I got to get this done, I got to get this done kind of thing. And it wasn't easy. So in fact, I didn't really learn how to really learn how to think and study until like until years later.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK. So let's jump now back to your senior year. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps?

[User] Kennedy was still president. And there's a lot of peace, a lot of Peace Corps stuff. So it was just in the news all the time at that point. They were starting the Peace Corps. And I guess, I don't know if I first heard about it there. There wasn't any recruiting on campus necessarily, I think.

[Assistant] Not in those days.

[User] I just, I just signed up. I called, you know, wrote in the application for it.

[Assistant] Do you recall that it was a fairly lengthy application process with references?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I just, I just signed up. I called, you know, wrote in the application for it.

[Assistant] Do you recall that it was a fairly lengthy application process with references?

[User] The only thing I really remember about that whole thing was when I was accepted and, you know. When I was accepted to go and they told me I was going to go to Ghana.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] I had heard that Ghana was a fairly easy place. It wasn't you didn't have to suffer too much. So I went to Al Lowenstein. I said, Al, I want to call and tell them to send me something more difficult. And he said, don't do it. If you do that, they'll probably not take you, they'll think you're a kook.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The only thing I really remember about that whole thing was when I was accepted and, you know. When I was accepted to go and they told me I was going to go to Ghana.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] I had heard that Ghana was a fairly easy place. It wasn't you didn't have to suffer too much. So I went to Al Lowenstein. I said, Al, I want to call and tell them to send me something more difficult. And he said, don't do it. If you do that, they'll probably not take you, they'll think you're a kook.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Good.

[User] So, um, so I didn't do that. And then the second thing was that they sent around the, uh, I had to get myself fingerprinted at the local police station. And then they sent, they came around with the, uh, was it FBI or?

[Assistant] FBI background check.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had heard that Ghana was a fairly easy place. It wasn't you didn't have to suffer too much. So I went to Al Lowenstein. I said, Al, I want to call and tell them to send me something more difficult. And he said, don't do it. If you do that, they'll probably not take you, they'll think you're a kook.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Good.

[User] So, um, so I didn't do that. And then the second thing was that they sent around the, uh, I had to get myself fingerprinted at the local police station. And then they sent, they came around with the, uh, was it FBI or?

[Assistant] FBI background check.

[User] Background check. And they, of course, they came to all the students who lived in the dorm with me, and they all told me all the stories they told these guys, what kind of a person I was. And so that was interesting.

[Assistant] How did your family react to your decision to join?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Background check. And they, of course, they came to all the students who lived in the dorm with me, and they all told me all the stories they told these guys, what kind of a person I was. And so that was interesting.

[Assistant] How did your family react to your decision to join?

[User] Uh, very. My mother was OK, very positive. She was concerned about me being away from her for such a long time because they were divorced. My father was dead at that time.

[Assistant] Ah, OK.

[User] So it was. And she, that's why we didn't have a lot of money going to school, because she was just trying to work to keep up things. And, um, so. So that was fine.

[Assistant] Do you recall your sister's reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, very. My mother was OK, very positive. She was concerned about me being away from her for such a long time because they were divorced. My father was dead at that time.

[Assistant] Ah, OK.

[User] So it was. And she, that's why we didn't have a lot of money going to school, because she was just trying to work to keep up things. And, um, so. So that was fine.

[Assistant] Do you recall your sister's reaction?

[User] No, she was, she was in high school, so she, she didn't know, she wasn't too much involved with it.

[Assistant] And how about your peers at Stanford?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was. And she, that's why we didn't have a lot of money going to school, because she was just trying to work to keep up things. And, um, so. So that was fine.

[Assistant] Do you recall your sister's reaction?

[User] No, she was, she was in high school, so she, she didn't know, she wasn't too much involved with it.

[Assistant] And how about your peers at Stanford?

[User] Stanford was very, it was very positive about that. They thought that was a good thing to do.

[Assistant] Had had others around you joined the Peace Corps at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, she was, she was in high school, so she, she didn't know, she wasn't too much involved with it.

[Assistant] And how about your peers at Stanford?

[User] Stanford was very, it was very positive about that. They thought that was a good thing to do.

[Assistant] Had had others around you joined the Peace Corps at that time?

[User] I don't remember anybody else who actually. There were a couple of other people, I think, but I don't remember who they were at all. It was more, the influence I had was mainly from Al Lowenstein.

[Assistant] And at the point you began the application process, did you have any alternatives in mind if you didn't get accepted? Did you have any sense of what you were going to do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Stanford was very, it was very positive about that. They thought that was a good thing to do.

[Assistant] Had had others around you joined the Peace Corps at that time?

[User] I don't remember anybody else who actually. There were a couple of other people, I think, but I don't remember who they were at all. It was more, the influence I had was mainly from Al Lowenstein.

[Assistant] And at the point you began the application process, did you have any alternatives in mind if you didn't get accepted? Did you have any sense of what you were going to do?

[User] No, I figured I was gonna get accepted.

[Assistant] Fair enough. So you must have gotten either a telegram or a letter, saying report to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I got it saying you're accepted and that kind of stuff. And then they said, report to Berkeley, right? I said, oh, shit, yeah, Berkeley. I mean, they could at least send me to New York State or something different, right?

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But of course, the Berkeley was a was. We stayed at the international house there in Berkeley.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And did the summer there. And as I wrote, I wrote some articles while I was in the Peace Corps, which they published in the Stanford newspaper, the daily newspaper. And as I said in there, I said that that was a very strong. That was a, how do I say? One of the most, not intense experiences, but to go through the training, the summer training.

[Assistant] Yeah. Intense in what way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But of course, the Berkeley was a was. We stayed at the international house there in Berkeley.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And did the summer there. And as I wrote, I wrote some articles while I was in the Peace Corps, which they published in the Stanford newspaper, the daily newspaper. And as I said in there, I said that that was a very strong. That was a, how do I say? One of the most, not intense experiences, but to go through the training, the summer training.

[Assistant] Yeah. Intense in what way?

[User] It wasn't intense. It was like, um, you felt you were. I felt that I was just cooking on all cylinders. I was just totally involved, that they were hitting me physically with all the physical things they were doing. They were hitting me with, of course, all the shots we had to take. They were hitting me with all the intellectual stuff, learning a little bit about the language and the culture. And of course, you were at Berkeley, too, I think, right?

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's go back. Do you remember when you first reported into Berkeley? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of people who also joined the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And did the summer there. And as I wrote, I wrote some articles while I was in the Peace Corps, which they published in the Stanford newspaper, the daily newspaper. And as I said in there, I said that that was a very strong. That was a, how do I say? One of the most, not intense experiences, but to go through the training, the summer training.

[Assistant] Yeah. Intense in what way?

[User] It wasn't intense. It was like, um, you felt you were. I felt that I was just cooking on all cylinders. I was just totally involved, that they were hitting me physically with all the physical things they were doing. They were hitting me with, of course, all the shots we had to take. They were hitting me with all the intellectual stuff, learning a little bit about the language and the culture. And of course, you were at Berkeley, too, I think, right?

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's go back. Do you remember when you first reported into Berkeley? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of people who also joined the Peace Corps.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And I think inevitably, you match yourself up against them. Did you recall any of that, you know, how you felt in relation to the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It wasn't intense. It was like, um, you felt you were. I felt that I was just cooking on all cylinders. I was just totally involved, that they were hitting me physically with all the physical things they were doing. They were hitting me with, of course, all the shots we had to take. They were hitting me with all the intellectual stuff, learning a little bit about the language and the culture. And of course, you were at Berkeley, too, I think, right?

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, let's go back. Do you remember when you first reported into Berkeley? Now you're in the midst of a bunch of people who also joined the Peace Corps.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And I think inevitably, you match yourself up against them. Did you recall any of that, you know, how you felt in relation to the group?

[User] Nothing negative, it was all pretty positive.

[Assistant] No, no, but.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And I think inevitably, you match yourself up against them. Did you recall any of that, you know, how you felt in relation to the group?

[User] Nothing negative, it was all pretty positive.

[Assistant] No, no, but.

[User] No, just a matter of going to classes with everybody, getting up and going and reading all the books they gave us to read.

[Assistant] And how big the group was it, do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, just a matter of going to classes with everybody, getting up and going and reading all the books they gave us to read.

[Assistant] And how big the group was it, do you recall?

[User] It was about 50 or 60 people or something like that.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Men and women.

[Assistant] Any married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was about 50 or 60 people or something like that.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Men and women.

[Assistant] Any married couples?

[User] I don't remember. I don't think so.

[Assistant] Age for the most part, age range?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember. I don't think so.

[Assistant] Age for the most part, age range?

[User] Right out of college. All young people out of college.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Um. There weren't, I don't think there were. I mean, most of them are. I don't remember anybody who was, had been in the military. I think that.

[Assistant] Now training usually has various components, area studies. And as we know, that was run by David Apter and Sinclair Drake. Your impression of that, do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right out of college. All young people out of college.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Um. There weren't, I don't think there were. I mean, most of them are. I don't remember anybody who was, had been in the military. I think that.

[Assistant] Now training usually has various components, area studies. And as we know, that was run by David Apter and Sinclair Drake. Your impression of that, do you recall?

[User] I thought, I was just trying to absorb everything as quick as, as much as I could, and going to classes was really. What got me was that they were, the physical ed was more oriented toward around, the physical education, was more about how do you teach physical education. It wasn't really to give us physical education. It was, you know, how do you create games for kids to play on the field, and how do you teach interesting things to kids? That was to me was very interesting. The, um, the language, the language, the medical we had. We did a lot of medical stuff, how do you keep yourself healthy?

[Assistant] How was your language training structured?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. There weren't, I don't think there were. I mean, most of them are. I don't remember anybody who was, had been in the military. I think that.

[Assistant] Now training usually has various components, area studies. And as we know, that was run by David Apter and Sinclair Drake. Your impression of that, do you recall?

[User] I thought, I was just trying to absorb everything as quick as, as much as I could, and going to classes was really. What got me was that they were, the physical ed was more oriented toward around, the physical education, was more about how do you teach physical education. It wasn't really to give us physical education. It was, you know, how do you create games for kids to play on the field, and how do you teach interesting things to kids? That was to me was very interesting. The, um, the language, the language, the medical we had. We did a lot of medical stuff, how do you keep yourself healthy?

[Assistant] How was your language training structured?

[User] Uh, it was, we didn't go into a lot of language. It was just an introduction to Twi.

[Assistant] And was everyone taking Twi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I thought, I was just trying to absorb everything as quick as, as much as I could, and going to classes was really. What got me was that they were, the physical ed was more oriented toward around, the physical education, was more about how do you teach physical education. It wasn't really to give us physical education. It was, you know, how do you create games for kids to play on the field, and how do you teach interesting things to kids? That was to me was very interesting. The, um, the language, the language, the medical we had. We did a lot of medical stuff, how do you keep yourself healthy?

[Assistant] How was your language training structured?

[User] Uh, it was, we didn't go into a lot of language. It was just an introduction to Twi.

[Assistant] And was everyone taking Twi?

[User] Yeah, I think so. At that point they didn't know where they're going.

[Assistant] And it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't implied that you had to learn the language in order to qualify as a volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think so. At that point they didn't know where they're going.

[Assistant] And it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't implied that you had to learn the language in order to qualify as a volunteer?

[User] So the whole idea there was that, like we said, it's a former British colony.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you're going to be teaching in English and you just want to pick up a little bit in order to get some of the culture, in another culture and so forth.

[Assistant] Now, another big area of training is what they call technical studies. You had not trained as a teacher. You knew you were going into a teaching program. What did they do to prepare you for the skills?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So the whole idea there was that, like we said, it's a former British colony.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you're going to be teaching in English and you just want to pick up a little bit in order to get some of the culture, in another culture and so forth.

[Assistant] Now, another big area of training is what they call technical studies. You had not trained as a teacher. You knew you were going into a teaching program. What did they do to prepare you for the skills?

[User] Frankly, I don't remember too much of that. But I think they did do a little bit of that.

[Assistant] Was there a student teaching or a practice teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Frankly, I don't remember too much of that. But I think they did do a little bit of that.

[Assistant] Was there a student teaching or a practice teaching?

[User] We did not do any student teaching.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] We, um, they did go into some of the like lesson plans, how to do lesson plans and how to structure. I remember they gave us some books on that and workbooks. One of the big remembrances I have of that was we, they, one. We had to go for a night and work at the emergency room at the hospital to get an idea of just, you know, how to deal with the emergency people and so forth. And that was just an experience we had.

[Assistant] And another big component of training is what's called the selection process. Do you recall psychological testing, seeing talking to psychiatrists or psychologists?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did not do any student teaching.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] We, um, they did go into some of the like lesson plans, how to do lesson plans and how to structure. I remember they gave us some books on that and workbooks. One of the big remembrances I have of that was we, they, one. We had to go for a night and work at the emergency room at the hospital to get an idea of just, you know, how to deal with the emergency people and so forth. And that was just an experience we had.

[Assistant] And another big component of training is what's called the selection process. Do you recall psychological testing, seeing talking to psychiatrists or psychologists?

[User] I don't remember that.

[Assistant] OK. So you don't recall that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We, um, they did go into some of the like lesson plans, how to do lesson plans and how to structure. I remember they gave us some books on that and workbooks. One of the big remembrances I have of that was we, they, one. We had to go for a night and work at the emergency room at the hospital to get an idea of just, you know, how to deal with the emergency people and so forth. And that was just an experience we had.

[Assistant] And another big component of training is what's called the selection process. Do you recall psychological testing, seeing talking to psychiatrists or psychologists?

[User] I don't remember that.

[Assistant] OK. So you don't recall that.

[User] It wasn't, it wasn't a, uh, something that was to me was stressful, I guess.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, so you don't remember being concerned about whether you were going to be chosen to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember that.

[Assistant] OK. So you don't recall that.

[User] It wasn't, it wasn't a, uh, something that was to me was stressful, I guess.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, so you don't remember being concerned about whether you were going to be chosen to go?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. At any point during the training, did you begin to have any kind of second thoughts that maybe, eh, maybe this is not such a great idea?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. At any point during the training, did you begin to have any kind of second thoughts that maybe, eh, maybe this is not such a great idea?

[User] No, I was looking forward to it. I was going to, I felt it was great.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] As I said, the whole thing was I felt that here I was basically at the top, you know, clicking on all cylinders, right?

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I was looking forward to it. I was going to, I felt it was great.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] As I said, the whole thing was I felt that here I was basically at the top, you know, clicking on all cylinders, right?

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.

[User] Young, energetic. Emotionally prepared, physically prepared, mentally prepared.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps Washington come out to talk to the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As I said, the whole thing was I felt that here I was basically at the top, you know, clicking on all cylinders, right?

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Yeah.

[User] Young, energetic. Emotionally prepared, physically prepared, mentally prepared.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps Washington come out to talk to the group?

[User] They probably did. It's not something I remember too much.

[Assistant] And do you recall any discussions about political sensitivity going into the country? Any things you had to be concerned about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Young, energetic. Emotionally prepared, physically prepared, mentally prepared.

[Assistant] Did anyone from Peace Corps Washington come out to talk to the group?

[User] They probably did. It's not something I remember too much.

[Assistant] And do you recall any discussions about political sensitivity going into the country? Any things you had to be concerned about?

[User] Yeah, a little bit because at that time we did have some discussions about the Young Pioneers. And some of the influence of the, of the eastern, of Eastern Europe on some of the structures. And the fact that you've just got to be a little bit careful about, um, not careful so much, but just to be, that this is, the newspapers are very slanted, have their own views.

[Assistant] And do you remember if during training you were, uh, you did any kind of the peer grading or listing of people you'd like to be assigned with, not assigned with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They probably did. It's not something I remember too much.

[Assistant] And do you recall any discussions about political sensitivity going into the country? Any things you had to be concerned about?

[User] Yeah, a little bit because at that time we did have some discussions about the Young Pioneers. And some of the influence of the, of the eastern, of Eastern Europe on some of the structures. And the fact that you've just got to be a little bit careful about, um, not careful so much, but just to be, that this is, the newspapers are very slanted, have their own views.

[Assistant] And do you remember if during training you were, uh, you did any kind of the peer grading or listing of people you'd like to be assigned with, not assigned with?

[User] I don't remember.

[Assistant] Or any preference for assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, a little bit because at that time we did have some discussions about the Young Pioneers. And some of the influence of the, of the eastern, of Eastern Europe on some of the structures. And the fact that you've just got to be a little bit careful about, um, not careful so much, but just to be, that this is, the newspapers are very slanted, have their own views.

[Assistant] And do you remember if during training you were, uh, you did any kind of the peer grading or listing of people you'd like to be assigned with, not assigned with?

[User] I don't remember.

[Assistant] Or any preference for assignment?

[User] Urban or rural.

[Assistant] OK. How long was training, do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember.

[Assistant] Or any preference for assignment?

[User] Urban or rural.

[Assistant] OK. How long was training, do you recall?

[User] It was a summer. So we went out of Stanford in the, you know, what, June or something like that. Started went to Berkeley immediately. And by September we were, when the school started, we were in Ghana.

[Assistant] OK. Did you have any home leave from the end of training before you went?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Urban or rural.

[Assistant] OK. How long was training, do you recall?

[User] It was a summer. So we went out of Stanford in the, you know, what, June or something like that. Started went to Berkeley immediately. And by September we were, when the school started, we were in Ghana.

[Assistant] OK. Did you have any home leave from the end of training before you went?

[User] Well, I think we had a week, a week off.

[Assistant] And big farewells?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Went to see the family, my mother and so forth. Had some farewells. Took off a couple of days, a couple of days early, again from Al Lowenstein, they were having a big, um. They were having the National Student Conference or one of the big conferences that he had been involved with at Ohio State. And my father had been to Ohio State and I'd never been in Ohio and so I wanted to do some travel. So I did take off and I, instead of flying to New York, where the plane left for Ghana.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] I flew to Ohio State and went to the student conference for a day or two there and then took the busses, took a bus from there to see the countryside a little bit into New York City and then spent a couple of days in New York City. Bought a camera.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then we all took off to Ghana.

[Assistant] Had the group sort of divided into cliques or were friendships formed, do you recall particularly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we all took off to Ghana.

[Assistant] Had the group sort of divided into cliques or were friendships formed, do you recall particularly?

[User] I don't think that I ever had any sense of cliques.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Well, I never had as much sense of that anyway.

[Assistant] Was there a, did you have a strong group feeling?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I never had as much sense of that anyway.

[Assistant] Was there a, did you have a strong group feeling?

[User] I felt there was a strong group feeling.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK.

[User] Yeah. The, um, there were a couple of people who stand out, who were different or sort of different. One girl, a very, very pretty girl, her father, I think, had been in a diplomatic corps. And so she knew, she knew what was going on. And had a lot of connections and so forth. And she sort of stood off a little bit because she basically knew what was happening. And, uh, but beyond that, everybody was to me was just part of the group.

[Assistant] Sometimes groups come together during the selection process because someone is selected out who they feel shouldn't have been. And, you know, you sort of pull together and say that, but you don't recall any of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I felt there was a strong group feeling.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK.

[User] Yeah. The, um, there were a couple of people who stand out, who were different or sort of different. One girl, a very, very pretty girl, her father, I think, had been in a diplomatic corps. And so she knew, she knew what was going on. And had a lot of connections and so forth. And she sort of stood off a little bit because she basically knew what was happening. And, uh, but beyond that, everybody was to me was just part of the group.

[Assistant] Sometimes groups come together during the selection process because someone is selected out who they feel shouldn't have been. And, you know, you sort of pull together and say that, but you don't recall any of that?

[User] I don't recall that.

[Assistant] OK. Was it a charter flight to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was. It was a first class charter flight. And after that, I understood that was the last first class charter flight, that we had free booze.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Although we were OK when we got, I don't think anybody was inebriated.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] When we got there. It was, I think we, I think it was they stopped in the Azores or something like that.

[Assistant] They had to refuel.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When we got there. It was, I think we, I think it was they stopped in the Azores or something like that.

[Assistant] They had to refuel.

[User] And the biggest thing I remember about the arrival was I had bought a very light suit jacket, you know, a seersucker type.

[Assistant] Yeah, right.

[User] And they opened the door of the airplane. It was like my clothes just gave up. And when they just melted, when the hot, warm air came in, and I could just feel everything just like, like just giving up and wrinkling on it.

[Assistant] Was there a reception at the airport?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the biggest thing I remember about the arrival was I had bought a very light suit jacket, you know, a seersucker type.

[Assistant] Yeah, right.

[User] And they opened the door of the airplane. It was like my clothes just gave up. And when they just melted, when the hot, warm air came in, and I could just feel everything just like, like just giving up and wrinkling on it.

[Assistant] Was there a reception at the airport?

[User] So they took us, they put us in a bus right away and took us out to the university. And we spent the first two weeks in Ghana because, you know, Ghana was unique in that the government was sponsoring us, did our pay while we're in country. And so they wanted to do, the government wanted to do an orientation for us along with the Peace Corps. So we spent, I think, two weeks or ten days at the university living in a student dormitory and then doing trips around in the southern part of Ghana.

[Assistant] Right. Do you recall your first impressions of being in Africa?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My first impression, obviously, having never gone out of the country before.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] My first impression was, my God, what am I doing? Um, not what am I doing, that was. Um. The smells, of course. And I think, I think as I remember. I remember thinking at the time, you know, I must be going through some culture shock because I'm sleeping 12 hours a day, you know?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It's just like reintegrate, integrating all this stuff. But that only happened for a couple of days and then, you know, and I got my sandals on and got my shorts on and was able to basically do what we needed to do.

[Assistant] I mean, you're suddenly thrown into a completely black world. I mean, it's all Africans.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Having grown up in, I've never, being growing up in the islands, in Hawaii. And I just didn't have that sense. I don't, I never grew up with the sense of racial difference, differentiate. I mean, I knew. But and also having never really ran into a lot of, uh, I mean I grew up in San Francisco on what we would call the poor side of town, right?

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But overall, I didn't know that. I just was, I was just living my life.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I didn't really, I didn't really grow up with any kind of sense of racial differences. And so people were people to me. They were black or white. They were just people.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you recall if any of the others in the group were having more culture shock than you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But overall, I didn't know that. I just was, I was just living my life.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I didn't really, I didn't really grow up with any kind of sense of racial differences. And so people were people to me. They were black or white. They were just people.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you recall if any of the others in the group were having more culture shock than you?

[User] I think. I don't think so. I think, because I think the other reason is because a lot of the other people had traveled in Europe and been out of the country a little bit. And I, this is my first real trip out of anywhere.

[Assistant] Yeah. And while you were at Legon.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't really, I didn't really grow up with any kind of sense of racial differences. And so people were people to me. They were black or white. They were just people.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you recall if any of the others in the group were having more culture shock than you?

[User] I think. I don't think so. I think, because I think the other reason is because a lot of the other people had traveled in Europe and been out of the country a little bit. And I, this is my first real trip out of anywhere.

[Assistant] Yeah. And while you were at Legon.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Do you recall if some of the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came to join you during the orientation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think. I don't think so. I think, because I think the other reason is because a lot of the other people had traveled in Europe and been out of the country a little bit. And I, this is my first real trip out of anywhere.

[Assistant] Yeah. And while you were at Legon.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Do you recall if some of the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came to join you during the orientation?

[User] Oh, I don't even remember that. You probably you did. You were one of them probably.

[Assistant] But you don't remember.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] Do you recall if some of the Peace Corps volunteers in the country came to join you during the orientation?

[User] Oh, I don't even remember that. You probably you did. You were one of them probably.

[Assistant] But you don't remember.

[User] I don't remember that at all. I tell you what, you want me to tell you what I do remember?

[Assistant] Sure, of course.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember that at all. I tell you what, you want me to tell you what I do remember?

[Assistant] Sure, of course.

[User] They took us on busses around different places. They took us to, and this is a story I've retold many times.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] To one of the, one of the suburbs, one of the towns along the coast near Accra. I forget exactly. [inaudible]

[Assistant] It depends which way you're going, but yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he's saying to us, if he was going to build three statues in Ghana. He would build three statues, right? One of course would be the Kwame Nkrumah, the president that led them to freedom. The second would be to the Aborigines' Rights [Protection] Society, which is a group of Ghanaians who studied in Oxford during the turn of the century and got the parliament to pass a law saying that foreigners couldn't buy land because the ingota, because the land was held in common by the chief. The chief didn't own the land. He was just a caretaker. So you couldn't buy that. The third would be six foot high female anopheles mosquito, which kept the white man out of West Africa.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] I thought that was great.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So during the orientation, you were feeling fairly comfortable about being in Ghana?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So during the orientation, you were feeling fairly comfortable about being in Ghana?

[User] Yeah, I felt pretty comfortable. We, of course, we went out to the local, uh. We had a chance to get out to the local high life bars.

[Assistant] The Lido.

[User] The Lido, which is where they dance at nighttime especially and the highlife, which is the music. And so we had, we were getting acculturated.

[Assistant] That's almost a rite of passage, you know, to go to the Lido and dance the highlife. Yeah, right. And at what point did someone come up and say, well, this is your assignment and this is what you're going to be doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Somewhere along there they said, you're going, you're going, we've decided you're going to Dunkwa, right, which is the town they're going to here.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And myself and Don Fontaine, the two of us.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And um.

[Assistant] So do you have any sense of what was going on with the secondary schools? You know, Dunkwa was what they called the GED school, the new government school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And um.

[Assistant] So do you have any sense of what was going on with the secondary schools? You know, Dunkwa was what they called the GED school, the new government school.

[User] They gave us, during the orientation, they basically said that, you know, the education in Ghana has been a very, has been well established. The British had had very good schools, mostly church schools, I guess, church related schools along the coast. And they were, they had very prestigious. I always felt that it was like in, to get into secondary school was like getting into college here. You had to take the exam and if you did very well and or if you had rich parents and well connected, you would get into the best schools. And then if you couldn't get into the best schools, you go to the second schools. If you couldn't get in there, you go to the third schools. And if you couldn't get anywhere else, you'd go to Dunkwa.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK.

[User] Because we had just, the school had just started out and it was brand new and.

[Assistant] OK. And how did you get from? Well, let me ask. Do you remember Peace Corps staff then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They gave us, during the orientation, they basically said that, you know, the education in Ghana has been a very, has been well established. The British had had very good schools, mostly church schools, I guess, church related schools along the coast. And they were, they had very prestigious. I always felt that it was like in, to get into secondary school was like getting into college here. You had to take the exam and if you did very well and or if you had rich parents and well connected, you would get into the best schools. And then if you couldn't get into the best schools, you go to the second schools. If you couldn't get in there, you go to the third schools. And if you couldn't get anywhere else, you'd go to Dunkwa.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK.

[User] Because we had just, the school had just started out and it was brand new and.

[Assistant] OK. And how did you get from? Well, let me ask. Do you remember Peace Corps staff then?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what role they were going to play in your, in getting you out there and supporting you once you were out there. Do you have any sense of that at the beginning?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because we had just, the school had just started out and it was brand new and.

[Assistant] OK. And how did you get from? Well, let me ask. Do you remember Peace Corps staff then?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what role they were going to play in your, in getting you out there and supporting you once you were out there. Do you have any sense of that at the beginning?

[User] No, I didn't have much sense of that. I, you know, there was a doctor there. We knew that Carter was in charge of the Peace Corps there. I had, so, you know, I was just running around on the busses, having a good time. And I didn't have too much sense of those guys, of what they were doing, if that's hat you mean?

[Assistant] OK, yeah. Yeah. So but you were content that there was a structure within which you would work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn't have much sense of that. I, you know, there was a doctor there. We knew that Carter was in charge of the Peace Corps there. I had, so, you know, I was just running around on the busses, having a good time. And I didn't have too much sense of those guys, of what they were doing, if that's hat you mean?

[Assistant] OK, yeah. Yeah. So but you were content that there was a structure within which you would work?

[User] It was very good. And they also had a hostel of course in Accra, which we didn't, we didn't get into until. Well, I guess we stayed there a couple of times. But the idea that there was quite an infrastructure that they laid out for us.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We were, of course, we were the first white people in, or Europeans as they commonly say, the white people to actually hitchhike around. Because up to that time, the British and everybody else, all the expatriates were in cars. So it was an interesting thing for the Ghanaians to see us hitchhiking around.

[Assistant] Now when you got the assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was very good. And they also had a hostel of course in Accra, which we didn't, we didn't get into until. Well, I guess we stayed there a couple of times. But the idea that there was quite an infrastructure that they laid out for us.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We were, of course, we were the first white people in, or Europeans as they commonly say, the white people to actually hitchhike around. Because up to that time, the British and everybody else, all the expatriates were in cars. So it was an interesting thing for the Ghanaians to see us hitchhiking around.

[Assistant] Now when you got the assignment.

[User] Or going on bores.

[Assistant] When you got the assignment, it was you and Don Fontaine to go to Dunkwa. Had you known Don particularly in training or just one of the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or going on bores.

[Assistant] When you got the assignment, it was you and Don Fontaine to go to Dunkwa. Had you known Don particularly in training or just one of the group?

[User] He was just one of the group. And we, they put us together and we went up there. The headmaster sent a taxi for us.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] From Dunkwa, which is like, what, three or four hour drive, right?

[Assistant] Right, at least.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was just one of the group. And we, they put us together and we went up there. The headmaster sent a taxi for us.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] From Dunkwa, which is like, what, three or four hour drive, right?

[Assistant] Right, at least.

[User] At least. And so like it's interesting. This taxi came and picked us up and we ended up 4 hours later, 5 hours later, in Dunkwa.

[Assistant] Do you remember shopping in Accra or your, uh, what was it called, your settling in allowance, mosquito nets and pots and pans and? Don't let me put words in your mouth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From Dunkwa, which is like, what, three or four hour drive, right?

[Assistant] Right, at least.

[User] At least. And so like it's interesting. This taxi came and picked us up and we ended up 4 hours later, 5 hours later, in Dunkwa.

[Assistant] Do you remember shopping in Accra or your, uh, what was it called, your settling in allowance, mosquito nets and pots and pans and? Don't let me put words in your mouth.

[User] I'm sure we got all that stuff because I remember we had, when we got to the house, I sprayed, I sprayed the bed very well with all kinds of insect repellent and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Well, talk about arriving at the campus at the school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sure we got all that stuff because I remember we had, when we got to the house, I sprayed, I sprayed the bed very well with all kinds of insect repellent and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Well, talk about arriving at the campus at the school.

[User] So it was a long trip, of course, on the taxi. And it was going through all these new areas for us.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And all the people along the road who were selling the bread and the bananas and all that kind of stuff. The women and, um, I didn't know necessarily too much about Dunkwa at that time. And so we arrived in Dunkwa. It was sort of like it was late. It was getting on late in the afternoon. And we, so the headmaster was there. So they drove us up to the school and the school was up on a hill. So it was very nice. And you could see, you could see around. And the headmaster greeted us and we got to know him a little bit. And I think he had dinner for us at his house.

[Assistant] Do you recall his name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Um, what I do remember of him was he was a short man.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And he was not from the tribe. He wasn't from the Denkyira tribe. He was from the coastal tribe. And that being short and not from that area had very strong effect on him.

[Assistant] So you, uh, you had dinner with the headmaster.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, what I do remember of him was he was a short man.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And he was not from the tribe. He wasn't from the Denkyira tribe. He was from the coastal tribe. And that being short and not from that area had very strong effect on him.

[Assistant] So you, uh, you had dinner with the headmaster.

[User] Had dinner with him. And then he showed us to our, we saw the bungalow. They had a cement brick bungalow where the two of us stayed. We had two bedrooms.

[Assistant] Have you been accustomed to taking care of yourself in a house? I mean, you're.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Had dinner with him. And then he showed us to our, we saw the bungalow. They had a cement brick bungalow where the two of us stayed. We had two bedrooms.

[Assistant] Have you been accustomed to taking care of yourself in a house? I mean, you're.

[User] So, and we have of course, we. I don't know if the first day if he had arranged it, but we have been told in during training that, you know, it's expected that you're going to have a houseboy.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] It's not something that you have a servant. It's just, it's more a matter of if you don't have a houseboy, what are you trying to do, take your money and go home or? You know, aren't you helping out the local people? So you're expected to have a houseboy to help out. And because you basically can't get out in the sunshine and work that hard.

[Assistant] Yeah. All right. Let's stay with the living arrangements, then we'll get to the teaching. So you had a houseboy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, and we have of course, we. I don't know if the first day if he had arranged it, but we have been told in during training that, you know, it's expected that you're going to have a houseboy.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] It's not something that you have a servant. It's just, it's more a matter of if you don't have a houseboy, what are you trying to do, take your money and go home or? You know, aren't you helping out the local people? So you're expected to have a houseboy to help out. And because you basically can't get out in the sunshine and work that hard.

[Assistant] Yeah. All right. Let's stay with the living arrangements, then we'll get to the teaching. So you had a houseboy?

[User] Yeah, it was a cement brick bungalow. It was very nice.

[Assistant] And water, electricity?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was a cement brick bungalow. It was very nice.

[Assistant] And water, electricity?

[User] Electricity part of the evening, because we had our own generator they'd turn on.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And when the generator is off, the electricity went off. But in the evening we had electricity. Running water was fine. And a gas or kerosene refrigerator.

[Assistant] That's right. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Electricity part of the evening, because we had our own generator they'd turn on.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And when the generator is off, the electricity went off. But in the evening we had electricity. Running water was fine. And a gas or kerosene refrigerator.

[Assistant] That's right. Yeah.

[User] Yeah. And it was a living room and two bedrooms and a courtyard in back. A little courtyard in back of the thing.

[Assistant] And the steward lived back there, the house boy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And it was a living room and two bedrooms and a courtyard in back. A little courtyard in back of the thing.

[Assistant] And the steward lived back there, the house boy?

[User] The steward? Actually, he lived in the little village and he would come up and he didn't live with us.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] He lived. He had his own. He had his own.

[Assistant] Did anyone living behind you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The steward? Actually, he lived in the little village and he would come up and he didn't live with us.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] He lived. He had his own. He had his own.

[Assistant] Did anyone living behind you?

[User] No. There wasn't a separate house behind it.

[Assistant] OK. So how did, did you let the houseboy take care of the whole thing about meals, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He lived. He had his own. He had his own.

[Assistant] Did anyone living behind you?

[User] No. There wasn't a separate house behind it.

[Assistant] OK. So how did, did you let the houseboy take care of the whole thing about meals, I mean?

[User] Yeah, he took, he took care of the meals. We, yeah. He would do, he would do the shopping, go to the market and do the. [tape break]

[Assistant] OK. OK, well, let's.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. There wasn't a separate house behind it.

[Assistant] OK. So how did, did you let the houseboy take care of the whole thing about meals, I mean?

[User] Yeah, he took, he took care of the meals. We, yeah. He would do, he would do the shopping, go to the market and do the. [tape break]

[Assistant] OK. OK, well, let's.

[User] So the houseboy took care of the food. Cleaned the house for us. He did all the shopping, the market. Um.

[Assistant] Was he an older guy, or is it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, he took, he took care of the meals. We, yeah. He would do, he would do the shopping, go to the market and do the. [tape break]

[Assistant] OK. OK, well, let's.

[User] So the houseboy took care of the food. Cleaned the house for us. He did all the shopping, the market. Um.

[Assistant] Was he an older guy, or is it?

[User] A young boy. Yeah, a young boy. He was, he got a girl pregnant while we were there. So he had come wanted extra chop money. We helped him, paid him a little bit extra to get money to so that his, uh, the lady could have food for their pregnancy.

[Assistant] And he was from the area?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So the houseboy took care of the food. Cleaned the house for us. He did all the shopping, the market. Um.

[Assistant] Was he an older guy, or is it?

[User] A young boy. Yeah, a young boy. He was, he got a girl pregnant while we were there. So he had come wanted extra chop money. We helped him, paid him a little bit extra to get money to so that his, uh, the lady could have food for their pregnancy.

[Assistant] And he was from the area?

[User] Yeah, he was local.

[Assistant] Why was he interested in school or had he done school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, he was local.

[Assistant] Why was he interested in school or had he done school?

[User] No, he wasn't interested in school at all. You know, he just. He was. But I think he was recommended through the school to the people there. There was another although, another Ghanaian teacher there that taught physical ed.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Maybe he was the one that recommended the young boy. Somehow he got ahold of him.

[Assistant] OK. Now, let's talk about, uh. What was Don's background? Had he been a teacher or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, he wasn't interested in school at all. You know, he just. He was. But I think he was recommended through the school to the people there. There was another although, another Ghanaian teacher there that taught physical ed.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Maybe he was the one that recommended the young boy. Somehow he got ahold of him.

[Assistant] OK. Now, let's talk about, uh. What was Don's background? Had he been a teacher or?

[User] No, he, Don hadn't been a teacher, but he'd been to, um, he was a liberal arts English major. So he taught. I taught science and math and he taught English and history and things like that.

[Assistant] Right. And he had not taught before so he was a novice just like you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe he was the one that recommended the young boy. Somehow he got ahold of him.

[Assistant] OK. Now, let's talk about, uh. What was Don's background? Had he been a teacher or?

[User] No, he, Don hadn't been a teacher, but he'd been to, um, he was a liberal arts English major. So he taught. I taught science and math and he taught English and history and things like that.

[Assistant] Right. And he had not taught before so he was a novice just like you.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Who else? How large was the school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct.

[Assistant] Who else? How large was the school?

[User] The school was a fairly big school. It was a, we had a three two-story buildings. Three, two. Plus a, um, in the back an eating place, what do you call it?

[Assistant] Dining room.

[User] Dining room and the kitchen with the, where the ladies fixed food for the students.

[Assistant] Right. So it was a boarding school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The school was a fairly big school. It was a, we had a three two-story buildings. Three, two. Plus a, um, in the back an eating place, what do you call it?

[Assistant] Dining room.

[User] Dining room and the kitchen with the, where the ladies fixed food for the students.

[Assistant] Right. So it was a boarding school?

[User] It was a boarding school.

[Assistant] Was it coed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was coed. There was a separate, there was a. There was actually was there was two school buildings and the third. The third floor. The ground floor or the ground, the ground floor was where the classes were right. And above that was the, was where the, um, the boy students, the students lived. And there was a, uh, the building you come up to, the central building, was the administration building.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And that's where the girls lived, upstairs there.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So there are more boys and girls.

[Assistant] Right. And was it, were there three forms? You remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that's where the girls lived, upstairs there.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So there are more boys and girls.

[Assistant] Right. And was it, were there three forms? You remember?

[User] We had, I think it was the second year the school was open, so there two forms.

[Assistant] Two forms. And then they added on. Who else was on faculty?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So there are more boys and girls.

[Assistant] Right. And was it, were there three forms? You remember?

[User] We had, I think it was the second year the school was open, so there two forms.

[Assistant] Two forms. And then they added on. Who else was on faculty?

[User] Don, myself, and the, uh, I think the Ghanaian teacher who was teaching physical education, soccer and so forth.

[Assistant] And that was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had, I think it was the second year the school was open, so there two forms.

[Assistant] Two forms. And then they added on. Who else was on faculty?

[User] Don, myself, and the, uh, I think the Ghanaian teacher who was teaching physical education, soccer and so forth.

[Assistant] And that was it?

[User] That was about it, yeah.

[Assistant] Just the three of you? There must have been.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was about it, yeah.

[Assistant] Just the three of you? There must have been.

[User] There must have been someone else.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I forgot.

[Assistant] And the headmaster.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There must have been someone else.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I forgot.

[Assistant] And the headmaster.

[User] And the headmaster.

[Assistant] Do you remember getting your teaching assignment and having any sense of what it is you were supposed to be doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the headmaster.

[Assistant] Do you remember getting your teaching assignment and having any sense of what it is you were supposed to be doing?

[User] Yeah, we had the, we had the books there, and there are books that we that we had to teach against that. Frankly, if I look back on it, I'd say I was not a very good teacher. I was learning a lot about how to teach and how to and how to get the subject across. I had, uh, I wasn't necessarily teaching to the British system. I was trying to teach them to think and trying to interest them in science and math and so forth. So I was, we, I was teaching to the book. We had the books. They had to go through the books. There are textbooks for the form.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But I didn't stick, I didn't stick enough to that because it was important to get that done.

[Assistant] So you were teaching general science?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we had the, we had the books there, and there are books that we that we had to teach against that. Frankly, if I look back on it, I'd say I was not a very good teacher. I was learning a lot about how to teach and how to and how to get the subject across. I had, uh, I wasn't necessarily teaching to the British system. I was trying to teach them to think and trying to interest them in science and math and so forth. So I was, we, I was teaching to the book. We had the books. They had to go through the books. There are textbooks for the form.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But I didn't stick, I didn't stick enough to that because it was important to get that done.

[Assistant] So you were teaching general science?

[User] Yeah, just general science. We had general science books.

[Assistant] Did you have math also?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I didn't stick, I didn't stick enough to that because it was important to get that done.

[Assistant] So you were teaching general science?

[User] Yeah, just general science. We had general science books.

[Assistant] Did you have math also?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you teach math also?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you teach math also?

[User] Uh huh.

[Assistant] And math?

[User] And math.

[Assistant] And Don taught English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And math.

[Assistant] And Don taught English?

[User] English. I remember he was, he was teaching 1984.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] George Orwell. Didn't go over big with the local officials.

[Assistant] That was a set book? In other words, it was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] English. I remember he was, he was teaching 1984.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] George Orwell. Didn't go over big with the local officials.

[Assistant] That was a set book? In other words, it was.

[User] Part of the set of books, yeah.

[Assistant] But just to set the context, the students would go to school for five years, at the end of which they would sit for the West African Exams Council set exams.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] George Orwell. Didn't go over big with the local officials.

[Assistant] That was a set book? In other words, it was.

[User] Part of the set of books, yeah.

[Assistant] But just to set the context, the students would go to school for five years, at the end of which they would sit for the West African Exams Council set exams.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So as of your first year, that was still a couple of years down the road.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Part of the set of books, yeah.

[Assistant] But just to set the context, the students would go to school for five years, at the end of which they would sit for the West African Exams Council set exams.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So as of your first year, that was still a couple of years down the road.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So the students didn't particularly pressure you? Or did the students pressure you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So as of your first year, that was still a couple of years down the road.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So the students didn't particularly pressure you? Or did the students pressure you?

[User] The second year they were getting more interested in this.

[Assistant] But they didn't say, please, sir, that's not on the syllabus.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] So the students didn't particularly pressure you? Or did the students pressure you?

[User] The second year they were getting more interested in this.

[Assistant] But they didn't say, please, sir, that's not on the syllabus.

[User] They didn't go that far.

[Assistant] OK. All right. Well, how did you take the teaching, do you recall your? I mean, you're suddenly in front of, what, 35, 40 kids and none of whose names you know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They didn't go that far.

[Assistant] OK. All right. Well, how did you take the teaching, do you recall your? I mean, you're suddenly in front of, what, 35, 40 kids and none of whose names you know.

[User] Yeah, I had done a lot of standing in front of people, doing things with them during schools and so forth, so that being in front of the classroom didn't bother me.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And teaching didn't bother me. But it was, it was a matter of just being able to get the things across to the students that I thought was good. And writing the, writing the exams and grading the exams and trying to keep up with all that stuff. Which I think overall, I mean, like I said before, I don't, I think I could have done a much better job with that.

[Assistant] Yeah. Two problems that classically the Peace Corps teachers had in this situation. One is adjusting to the students' language and they're adjusting to your language. I mean, American English and Ghanaian English are two different things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I had done a lot of standing in front of people, doing things with them during schools and so forth, so that being in front of the classroom didn't bother me.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And teaching didn't bother me. But it was, it was a matter of just being able to get the things across to the students that I thought was good. And writing the, writing the exams and grading the exams and trying to keep up with all that stuff. Which I think overall, I mean, like I said before, I don't, I think I could have done a much better job with that.

[Assistant] Yeah. Two problems that classically the Peace Corps teachers had in this situation. One is adjusting to the students' language and they're adjusting to your language. I mean, American English and Ghanaian English are two different things.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you recall that particularly?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the way they pronounce water is water, right? And so they thought that was so funny that I was going, I was doing wader instead of water. So I quickly learned to speak very, enunciate.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And speak slowly.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And such, so much so that when I ended up getting out of the Peace Corps years later, people thought. I came back here. I was still doing the same thing. People thought I was speaking down to them. I wasn't. I was.

[Assistant] Yeah. How did you, do you remember how you addressed the students? Did you learn their names?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And speak slowly.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And such, so much so that when I ended up getting out of the Peace Corps years later, people thought. I came back here. I was still doing the same thing. People thought I was speaking down to them. I wasn't. I was.

[Assistant] Yeah. How did you, do you remember how you addressed the students? Did you learn their names?

[User] Yeah, I tried to learn their names.

[Assistant] First name, last name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And such, so much so that when I ended up getting out of the Peace Corps years later, people thought. I came back here. I was still doing the same thing. People thought I was speaking down to them. I wasn't. I was.

[Assistant] Yeah. How did you, do you remember how you addressed the students? Did you learn their names?

[User] Yeah, I tried to learn their names.

[Assistant] First name, last name?

[User] Kofi, first name usually.

[Assistant] Yeah. And that went?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the students were organized themselves or they, they were. They would organize themselves. There were obviously some students who were very bright and other students that weren't. So there was obviously a very mixture of academic talent.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And the ones who were very bright could catch on very quickly and they would help some of the other kids. They all slept upstairs on wooden, on wooden slats, you know, and they wash their own clothes themselves. They were. They ironed their own clothes, white shirts, khaki shorts.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] White shirts were always pure white, always well ironed. So they did a lot of good stuff to keep themselves there.

[Assistant] And was the, like form one? Was it split to 1A and 1B?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the ones who were very bright could catch on very quickly and they would help some of the other kids. They all slept upstairs on wooden, on wooden slats, you know, and they wash their own clothes themselves. They were. They ironed their own clothes, white shirts, khaki shorts.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] White shirts were always pure white, always well ironed. So they did a lot of good stuff to keep themselves there.

[Assistant] And was the, like form one? Was it split to 1A and 1B?

[User] Not that I remember.

[Assistant] OK. All right. Because sometimes they would put the better kids in A and the rest in B. The other difficulty that American teachers often have going into the situation is traditionally the Ghanaian students are fantastic with rote learning. And the American teacher comes in and wants to have them think and discuss. And do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, in science and math, it's a little bit easier because you're not, you're not talking about, you know, interpreting a book or something like that.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So you're just trying to get across the concepts of the math and concepts of the science. What is, you know, oxygen? And I tried to do a lot of, I tried to set up a lot of experiments. I sent off for some of the, some equipment that to be imported that we could use, like beakers and Bunsen burners and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we could show the students to some of the things. And electrolysis of water and that kind of stuff. So we tried to, tried to do what I thought was, so they could actually see it happening and physically touch it and so forth. Not everybody, they couldn't. It was only like in the front of the room. Um. As we went through the syllabus I tried to do, to show them the, um, what was the, how this actually works, so they can see it. Um. The rote learning.

[Assistant] You know, if you gave them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So you're just trying to get across the concepts of the math and concepts of the science. What is, you know, oxygen? And I tried to do a lot of, I tried to set up a lot of experiments. I sent off for some of the, some equipment that to be imported that we could use, like beakers and Bunsen burners and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So we could show the students to some of the things. And electrolysis of water and that kind of stuff. So we tried to, tried to do what I thought was, so they could actually see it happening and physically touch it and so forth. Not everybody, they couldn't. It was only like in the front of the room. Um. As we went through the syllabus I tried to do, to show them the, um, what was the, how this actually works, so they can see it. Um. The rote learning.

[Assistant] You know, if you gave them.

[User] I didn't have a, I had a sense. Yes, it was much easier for them to learn by rote.

[Assistant] I mean, they could memorize long passages and not necessarily understand that the content.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we could show the students to some of the things. And electrolysis of water and that kind of stuff. So we tried to, tried to do what I thought was, so they could actually see it happening and physically touch it and so forth. Not everybody, they couldn't. It was only like in the front of the room. Um. As we went through the syllabus I tried to do, to show them the, um, what was the, how this actually works, so they can see it. Um. The rote learning.

[Assistant] You know, if you gave them.

[User] I didn't have a, I had a sense. Yes, it was much easier for them to learn by rote.

[Assistant] I mean, they could memorize long passages and not necessarily understand that the content.

[User] I had, it was more of a sense that the kids. The brighter kids caught on very, very quickly, and a lot of kids just weren't going to get it. And so there was a lot of, um, tried to help encourage a lot of help between the students too, outside the classroom, so that they would be working with each other a lot to help each other.

[Assistant] Was there a point in the first semester or two where you had a sense that you were actually teaching, you know, you were achieving something? Although obviously you were somewhat dissatisfied.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had, it was more of a sense that the kids. The brighter kids caught on very, very quickly, and a lot of kids just weren't going to get it. And so there was a lot of, um, tried to help encourage a lot of help between the students too, outside the classroom, so that they would be working with each other a lot to help each other.

[Assistant] Was there a point in the first semester or two where you had a sense that you were actually teaching, you know, you were achieving something? Although obviously you were somewhat dissatisfied.

[User] Yeah, I thought I was, I thought I was doing an OK job.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But I thought, I thought that I just hadn't any skills in doing it yet.

[Assistant] Did you test? Did you do regular testing of the students?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I thought, I thought that I just hadn't any skills in doing it yet.

[Assistant] Did you test? Did you do regular testing of the students?

[User] Yeah, we did. We did exams every so often. And I, you know, I created the exams. I tried out. And what I found out was that very, it was very different in their writing. Of course, their command of English. One of the big issues was between the different students was their level of English understanding.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] As you know, many of the students didn't speak much English at all. So they were trying to pick up English along the way as they were learning the subjects.

[Assistant] Right. You mentioned these, I mean, Dunkwa was not a prestige secondary school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we did. We did exams every so often. And I, you know, I created the exams. I tried out. And what I found out was that very, it was very different in their writing. Of course, their command of English. One of the big issues was between the different students was their level of English understanding.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] As you know, many of the students didn't speak much English at all. So they were trying to pick up English along the way as they were learning the subjects.

[Assistant] Right. You mentioned these, I mean, Dunkwa was not a prestige secondary school.

[User] Right. But even so. Even so, um. You would have one student. The whole village would get together and pull their money to send one student, the best student from their village, to school. And that's all they could afford. And so there was a lot of, although the kids had a lot of fun, they were, you know, so forth. It was a, um, it was, they were highly motivated to try to learn. They were not there to screw around. They knew that this was their passport to, you know, to success or not. And they were, they were very, uh, they felt not privileged so much, but they felt that it was good to be there.

[Assistant] Did, um, how did Don's experience match up to yours as you settled into becoming teachers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. But even so. Even so, um. You would have one student. The whole village would get together and pull their money to send one student, the best student from their village, to school. And that's all they could afford. And so there was a lot of, although the kids had a lot of fun, they were, you know, so forth. It was a, um, it was, they were highly motivated to try to learn. They were not there to screw around. They knew that this was their passport to, you know, to success or not. And they were, they were very, uh, they felt not privileged so much, but they felt that it was good to be there.

[Assistant] Did, um, how did Don's experience match up to yours as you settled into becoming teachers?

[User] Don was, Don was more in. Actually, Don got more involved with the students and teaching and took, went on the lorry trips, a couple of lorry trips with them, to northern Ghana and so forth. And I was teaching but when I, when I wasn't at the school doing teaching, I was taking off going on my own trips.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] So he was more involved with the life of this a little more than I, more than I was.

[Assistant] Did you feel guilty about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Don was, Don was more in. Actually, Don got more involved with the students and teaching and took, went on the lorry trips, a couple of lorry trips with them, to northern Ghana and so forth. And I was teaching but when I, when I wasn't at the school doing teaching, I was taking off going on my own trips.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] So he was more involved with the life of this a little more than I, more than I was.

[Assistant] Did you feel guilty about that?

[User] At the time I didn't, because at the time I was involved with.

[Assistant] Your own life.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So he was more involved with the life of this a little more than I, more than I was.

[Assistant] Did you feel guilty about that?

[User] At the time I didn't, because at the time I was involved with.

[Assistant] Your own life.

[User] My own life. Looking back on it, I say, I said it would have been nicer for me to have been less involved with myself and more involved with the students.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was there a point in the first half year where you woke up one day and said, oh my God, I'm in the Peace Corps, I'm in the middle of Africa and I'm doing it. I mean, is there any sense of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My own life. Looking back on it, I say, I said it would have been nicer for me to have been less involved with myself and more involved with the students.

[Assistant] Yeah. Was there a point in the first half year where you woke up one day and said, oh my God, I'm in the Peace Corps, I'm in the middle of Africa and I'm doing it. I mean, is there any sense of that?

[User] There wasn't any sense of that. It was just a matter of day to day, of trying, getting stuff done. And, you know. Um. You know, then on weekends, of course, we'd sometimes get on and take the lorry up to Kumasi. We'd do our shopping for European type foods, like a bottle of liqueur every so often, and something like that. We'd go shopping up to Kumasi and there were a lot of Peace Corps volunteers up there. And there were the expatriate. There were places to stay with Peace Corps volunteers or other places.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so that was a socializing with other volunteers. We didn't really get to meet, besides Don and I when we were in Dunkwa, we were the only Peace Corps people around there besides you. Some people would drive through going to their school like yourself.

[Assistant] Yeah, I was further out by 30 miles or so, and I would stop by.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so that was a socializing with other volunteers. We didn't really get to meet, besides Don and I when we were in Dunkwa, we were the only Peace Corps people around there besides you. Some people would drive through going to their school like yourself.

[Assistant] Yeah, I was further out by 30 miles or so, and I would stop by.

[User] Yeah, the, um. But my remembrance is there was teaching, was the students during the breaks when school was over.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] They would have all their, all their bags and packed up and their suitcases and their trunks waiting, waiting out in front for the lorries to come pick them up to take them back to their homes for the time. That was a big deal.

[Assistant] So during your first year there, you tended to, you would often on a weekend would.