[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, there was a lot. First Space Station assembly mission, a lot of media interest, kind of standard.

[Assistant] Just standard? Nothing stood out?

[User] No, we did a lot of media interviews on orbit and on the ground afterwards. It was the beginning. I look back on Space Station, and it’s really a phenomenal accomplishment. Folks didn’t think we’d be able to do all the EVAs to get Space Station done, and they all went flawlessly. There were hiccups along the way, things didn’t go right, but the crews overcame so much and were able to fix things that couldn’t have been done autonomously with the issues that we had. I look at the solar array deploys and how we worked through that issue. It wasn’t until Luca Parmitano had that issue with the water in his helmet here about a year ago that we really had an issue on an EVA where we had to cut it short. Pretty amazing how well everything went.

[Assistant] Would you talk about undocking to Space Station, pulling back, and your memories of that?

[User] Yes. Being a good commander, I had to train my pilot and give him some experience. As much as I would have liked to have flown undocking and fly around the Space Station while we took pictures of it, I let Rick Sturckow do that. I just watched and supervised. When we undocked, Rick got to do the undocking and the fly-around. That prepared him for his command going to Space Station where he did a rendezvous with the Space Station. It was pretty cool when we backed away. Got some really neat pictures that ended up on the cover of Aviation Week.\n\n The one that’s on Aviation Week wasn’t the one I think was the best. They picked one where you could see the Earth and the clouds behind it. My favorite is just the blackness of space behind it. It’s the beginning of the ISS silhouetted with that black void of space behind it, and it really looks neat in my opinion.

[Assistant] Was that an image you took?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it was great looking forward to the future, to Constellation, and where we were going and what we were doing. It was very disappointing when that all came to an end. A lot of folks had put a lot into it. Huge challenge to stand up a program and move forward.\n\n If you look back on what the Augustine Commission said in their report, it wasn’t that it was a poorly managed program. It was an underfunded program. Where we were going, what we were doing, had it been funded properly, we could have made that happen.\n\n Where we are with SLS [Space Launch System] and Orion, of course Orion survived Constellation, and SLS is a different rocket from what the Ares V would have been. Using the resources we have and the budget that we have, this is the right answer for what we’re doing now, although we got to be careful that it’s not underfunded also. In 2010 when that Program got canceled, that was a real hit to everybody. I was at KSC at the time. That was hard.

[Assistant] When Beak asked you to be his Deputy Director, what were your thoughts?

[User] Yes, sir. Good marine. Randy [Brock R.] Stone was retiring and Beak asked me to do it, and I said, “Okay.”

[Assistant] Had you worked with Beak much?

[User] No, didn’t know him from Adam. Yes, he was a fighter pilot; I was an attack pilot in the Marine Corps. Knew of him only by reputation and having been Director of Flight Crew Ops when Beak came on board, knowing him from that point of view. Working on crew assignments and astronaut selections and loss of Columbia, but I had not known him prior to that.

[Assistant] What’s the role of the Deputy Director at JSC? Can you share some of those [details]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, sir. Good marine. Randy [Brock R.] Stone was retiring and Beak asked me to do it, and I said, “Okay.”

[Assistant] Had you worked with Beak much?

[User] No, didn’t know him from Adam. Yes, he was a fighter pilot; I was an attack pilot in the Marine Corps. Knew of him only by reputation and having been Director of Flight Crew Ops when Beak came on board, knowing him from that point of view. Working on crew assignments and astronaut selections and loss of Columbia, but I had not known him prior to that.

[Assistant] What’s the role of the Deputy Director at JSC? Can you share some of those [details]?

[User] I think it varies depending on who the Director is. Beak, having worked for SAIC, was very much not involved in some things like fee-determining boards and source evaluation boards. From a contractual point of view, I was the fee-determining official on a lot of the contracts at JSC. I consulted with him. At one point he said I wasn’t keeping him well enough informed on what I was doing, so I started informing him on everything I was doing.

[Assistant] You went overboard.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He said, “Okay, enough.” He pretty much allowed me to run the Center, and he worried about the up and out kind of stuff. I worried about the down and in kind of stuff. It worked out well.\n\n When Mike Coats came on board, we kept the same model. Mike, I had known for a long time. Mike is one of the finest individuals I know. He is a really really good man. He’d actually tried to get me to come work for Lockheed Martin at one time. I wanted to stay where I was. I’ve only worked for one person since I graduated from high school, and that’s Uncle Sam. I went to the Naval Academy [Annapolis, MD], I went in the Marine Corps, and I came to NASA. I think what we’re doing is really important and I really enjoy being part of this team here at NASA. So I wasn’t ready to leave and do something else. I really enjoyed working for Mike. He’s a good man, good friend, and I’d do anything for him. It worked out well.

[Assistant] What are your memories of that return to flight after Columbia? You were Deputy Director then. How involved were you in that effort?

[User] A lot. Was very concerned that it would go well. We put a lot of work into it. The crew worked hard to make sure that it all went well. It was an interesting crew assignment in that that was supposed to be the next crew, and we didn’t really change it. We allowed that crew to be the crew that continued to fly. Ken Bowersox was the Director of FCOD and it all worked out well.

[Assistant] Any special memories?

[User] I’m trying to think. At that point Kent [V.] Rominger was still chief of the Astronaut Office then. Or had Charlie [Charles J.] Precourt taken over yet?

[Assistant] I’d have to check the dates. I can’t speak with certainty.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A lot. Was very concerned that it would go well. We put a lot of work into it. The crew worked hard to make sure that it all went well. It was an interesting crew assignment in that that was supposed to be the next crew, and we didn’t really change it. We allowed that crew to be the crew that continued to fly. Ken Bowersox was the Director of FCOD and it all worked out well.

[Assistant] Any special memories?

[User] I’m trying to think. At that point Kent [V.] Rominger was still chief of the Astronaut Office then. Or had Charlie [Charles J.] Precourt taken over yet?

[Assistant] I’d have to check the dates. I can’t speak with certainty.

[User] Yes, I have to go back and look. I can’t remember. My memory is not as good as it used to be, too much stuff to keep track of. There is a lot. I’ve been very blessed. I look back on all the things that I’ve gotten to be a part of, and I often thank George for giving me the opportunity to be an astronaut back in 1985. I wish I’d made it in ’84, but it’s okay. I was really disappointed when PJ [Paul J.] Weitz called me, and I wasn’t selected. I’ll never forget. He said, “We’re going to take some more next year. We’d like you to try again.” “Yes, sir.” PJ is another good man. I think the world of him. He’s enjoying life out in Arizona, he deserves to.\n\n The second time I interviewed George said, “Yes, we’re looking for some Marines to guard the gates.” “Whatever you want, sir.”

[Assistant] On that return to flight there was a tile strike. Were you surprised by that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, that was a joke. Yes, we always worked the budget for the Center. The guys came up when I went away, and they had a Cabana buck and presented me with it. What they also did was—I forget which Mexican restaurant it is. They got those little empty thread spools that are red and green. You turn it green if you want more and red if you don’t. The guys made up one for me that was red on both ends. Just say no.

[Assistant] Probably needed it after being Deputy Director.

[User] To budget requests, to more money. I had a hard time not giving folks the money they needed to do what they were doing, but you had a limited budget. You had to allocate it fairly and do the right thing, always a challenge.

[Assistant] There was a pretty big challenge when you were Deputy Director and Mike Coats became head of the Center, and that was the shooting out at Building 44.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Would you talk about that and the role you played?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] To budget requests, to more money. I had a hard time not giving folks the money they needed to do what they were doing, but you had a limited budget. You had to allocate it fairly and do the right thing, always a challenge.

[Assistant] There was a pretty big challenge when you were Deputy Director and Mike Coats became head of the Center, and that was the shooting out at Building 44.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Would you talk about that and the role you played?

[User] Watching that on TV, just what was going on, and working through all that, that was a scary time. Now that you bring it up, I can’t remember where I was. I have to go back and think about that. It was just working through all that and the hostage situation. Jackie [Reese] of the Employee Assistance Program did an awesome job after that working with folks to work through all that. That’s one thing I think NASA does extremely well, our Employee Assistance Programs at the various Centers. Really provides good support for a lot of personnel issues and personal issues that folks have, helping them work through it. I think we do well in providing that service to our folks. That was a scary time. It was very sad, but I think given what happened we worked through it well. We responded, and we took care of it afterwards and provided the right support in the aftermath to take care of folks that were impacted by it.

[Assistant] Were there any lessons learned that you applied to the Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Be a lot easier if you asked me about Kennedy.

[Assistant] Oh, I’m sure. That’s a whole other oral history.

[User] It’s been an amazing seven plus years at KSC with a huge transition.\n\n If I had to pick one thing, one of the things I’m most proud of—it’s hard to pick one thing. The first Space Station assembly mission, having that success, having it go as well as it did, and setting the stage for the construction of the International Space Station, setting the tone for how it was to be done, how to work with our international partners, how to be successful on orbit, how to work with the team on the ground, all the testing that we did, everything. That was a huge accomplishment. I’m really proud of that, how well it went. I was very fortunate to be the commander, and I think it went extremely well. But that’s flying in space, that’s technical.\n\n I think working with the Columbia families in the recovery after Columbia and getting us flying again from a team point of view, from an emotional point of view, dealing with all of that, I think that was important. I think we did the right things to get us back to flying again. I feel very badly that it had to happen, but I don’t think we could have done it better than we did on the recovery and return to flight and how we dealt with the families. I think that was all done extremely well. I’m very proud to have been a part of that.\n\n I’m proud of how all the missions went while I was chief of the Astronaut Office. That was an awesome three years. We did a lot.

[Assistant] Yes, there was quite a few missions under your belt there.

[User] A lot of things went well, but I had a great team supporting me.

[Assistant] You’ve had quite a long career.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They made a whole lot more money than I did. That’s okay, I get to tell them what to do.

[Assistant] I was about to say you’ve got this. Can you talk a little bit about how that relationship still continues today?

[User] It’s no different than working with the Russians. A lot of my astronaut buddies are senior managers, VPs [vice-presidents] within the space industry now. So we still work together, but we have a relationship. We have established trust. Frank Culbertson, a classmate from the Naval Academy, we were test pilots together, astronauts together, even though he got selected a year ahead of me, I beat him to space. There’s a trust. He’s working for Orbital ATK now. We’re getting ready to return the Cygnus to flight here on December 3rd on an Atlas V. Just being at the flight readiness review, knowing Frank, knowing his experience and what he’s doing, there’s a trust that’s there.\n\n No different than working with the Russians. You establish your relationship. You establish trust. You work together. Kent Rominger is one of my closest friends, dearest friends, working for Orbital ATK out in Utah. Rommel is an awesome pilot. I love flying with him. We used to go up and do formation aerobatics together in a T-38. That was a hoot. I took him up in my Decathlon when he was in Florida here a couple weeks ago. We went flying.

[Assistant] Just a little while ago there was an announcement that there’s going to be yet one more class, or another class of astronauts, this selection.

[User] I’m glad I got selected when I did. These guys today, they’re so smart, and they have so many advanced degrees. They’ve done all these things to make them more qualified to be selected. I always say if you just work hard and do the right thing it’ll all work out.

[Assistant] Just have to be one of the few that get chosen now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Closed shop.

[Assistant] Then was there a lot of cultural challenges when you started broadening that? Because all of a sudden now it wasn’t a controlled factor as much as it was a communicated factor.

[User] There is some.

[Assistant] Or is some of that going away now?

[User] It was surprisingly little actually. I think because it unfolded incrementally. There was some shock like that. Certainly when we started Station and it became an International Space Station. I mentioned that the MOD position early on was no element ops. If they want to play they come here. That changed gradually where we wound up with an ESA Control Center, a JAXA Control Center, and the Russians sitting in Russia. They won’t come here. We’re interacting with those people. That happened over time. I think it was not as much of a culture shock because it happened over time. The more recent element, when we canceled the Constellation Program and the administration’s decision was to put more emphasis on commercial vendors, which I personally think is a great idea, the reality I think of you can’t own it all yourself anymore started settling in.\n\n You really had two choices. Either you got with the new program or you went and found yourself something else to do. I think it added another layer on modifying the culture to recognize that our future was dependent on our willingness to be a bit part player rather than to own the whole show ourselves.

[Assistant] Interesting way of looking at that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think there's a lot of reasons. The main reason is I just wanted to help people. Whenever I was young, I saw the movie Dirty Dancing and Baby's character talked about joining the Peace Corps. And I asked my mom, what is the Peace Corps? I was pretty young, I think, whenever it came out. And so she told me about it. And I was interested and in college, there was a recruiter that came and talked to us, but I'd already accepted a job for after college, so I decided to go ahead and postpone that dream. And then I was flying and I was flight attendant for American Airlines. They declared bankruptcy in 2012. So I decided to take a voluntary furlough and try to join the Peace Corps. And it was just perfect timing. My apartment lease was up and my car was paid off and I'd wanted to do it for so long. And so I just decided to go.

[Assistant] Great. So where did you go, where did you grow up?

[User] I grew up in Dallas area, all in North Texas, but pretty much in the Dallas area. So from the time I was born until I went to school in Lubbock, Texas, which is about 6 hours away, and I went to a semester abroad in Mexico when I was in college. But until then it was all basically right here in North Texas.

[Assistant] What did your family and friends think about you joining the Peace Corps?

[User] They were excited. They were really excited. Some were a little scared about me going all the way to Georgia. In fact, whenever I had my interview, my initial interviews, my recruiter thought for sure because I spoke Spanish that I would go to South America. And I was a little disappointed. I really had my hopes on Africa. I was hoping, I don't know.

[Assistant] Did you apply for Africa?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I grew up in Dallas area, all in North Texas, but pretty much in the Dallas area. So from the time I was born until I went to school in Lubbock, Texas, which is about 6 hours away, and I went to a semester abroad in Mexico when I was in college. But until then it was all basically right here in North Texas.

[Assistant] What did your family and friends think about you joining the Peace Corps?

[User] They were excited. They were really excited. Some were a little scared about me going all the way to Georgia. In fact, whenever I had my interview, my initial interviews, my recruiter thought for sure because I spoke Spanish that I would go to South America. And I was a little disappointed. I really had my hopes on Africa. I was hoping, I don't know.

[Assistant] Did you apply for Africa?

[User] I didn't, at the time that I applied, you couldn't really choose. I definitely put it as my first choice. And I said on the little essay that we could write that I would obviously go anywhere they wanted to send me that they thought was best, because I thought they knew best. But I really hoped to learn another language. And Africa was like my top choice. And I said, if you, if there's any choice in the matter, I would definitely prefer a much warmer climate than a cooler climate because I'm a big wimp for cold weather. But whenever I got my invitation, it was to the country of Georgia and I was like, what?

[Assistant] Georgia's not warm?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were excited. They were really excited. Some were a little scared about me going all the way to Georgia. In fact, whenever I had my interview, my initial interviews, my recruiter thought for sure because I spoke Spanish that I would go to South America. And I was a little disappointed. I really had my hopes on Africa. I was hoping, I don't know.

[Assistant] Did you apply for Africa?

[User] I didn't, at the time that I applied, you couldn't really choose. I definitely put it as my first choice. And I said on the little essay that we could write that I would obviously go anywhere they wanted to send me that they thought was best, because I thought they knew best. But I really hoped to learn another language. And Africa was like my top choice. And I said, if you, if there's any choice in the matter, I would definitely prefer a much warmer climate than a cooler climate because I'm a big wimp for cold weather. But whenever I got my invitation, it was to the country of Georgia and I was like, what?

[Assistant] Georgia's not warm?

[User] Not warm at all. But it ended up being a really great time. I would have never, ever thought to go to Georgia on my own. So I'm so glad that I was sent there.

[Assistant] What was your education background?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't, at the time that I applied, you couldn't really choose. I definitely put it as my first choice. And I said on the little essay that we could write that I would obviously go anywhere they wanted to send me that they thought was best, because I thought they knew best. But I really hoped to learn another language. And Africa was like my top choice. And I said, if you, if there's any choice in the matter, I would definitely prefer a much warmer climate than a cooler climate because I'm a big wimp for cold weather. But whenever I got my invitation, it was to the country of Georgia and I was like, what?

[Assistant] Georgia's not warm?

[User] Not warm at all. But it ended up being a really great time. I would have never, ever thought to go to Georgia on my own. So I'm so glad that I was sent there.

[Assistant] What was your education background?

[User] Well, I had studied Spanish and hotel restaurant management in college. And I did have a little bit of experience working as teaching. I did substitute teaching for the past four years before I left for Peace Corps, and I did a lot of volunteer work teaching English as a second language. So I guess that's what they needed in Georgia at the time.

[Assistant] So you were in an English language, a TEFL program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not warm at all. But it ended up being a really great time. I would have never, ever thought to go to Georgia on my own. So I'm so glad that I was sent there.

[Assistant] What was your education background?

[User] Well, I had studied Spanish and hotel restaurant management in college. And I did have a little bit of experience working as teaching. I did substitute teaching for the past four years before I left for Peace Corps, and I did a lot of volunteer work teaching English as a second language. So I guess that's what they needed in Georgia at the time.

[Assistant] So you were in an English language, a TEFL program?

[User] Exactly, exactly. My primary project was teaching English.

[Assistant] And so you were applied, you applied, you were accepted. And how many people were in your group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I had studied Spanish and hotel restaurant management in college. And I did have a little bit of experience working as teaching. I did substitute teaching for the past four years before I left for Peace Corps, and I did a lot of volunteer work teaching English as a second language. So I guess that's what they needed in Georgia at the time.

[Assistant] So you were in an English language, a TEFL program?

[User] Exactly, exactly. My primary project was teaching English.

[Assistant] And so you were applied, you applied, you were accepted. And how many people were in your group?

[User] There were 30 of us in my original cohort. Yeah. And we, we all, but well there was a couple in PST that did not make it through the entire training.

[Assistant] What is PST?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were 30 of us in my original cohort. Yeah. And we, we all, but well there was a couple in PST that did not make it through the entire training.

[Assistant] What is PST?

[User] Pre-service training.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Sorry. And then one had to be medically evacuated. She would have been there the entire time had she not, but the rest of us all made it through together.

[Assistant] So in 2013 was all of the training overseas at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pre-service training.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Sorry. And then one had to be medically evacuated. She would have been there the entire time had she not, but the rest of us all made it through together.

[Assistant] So in 2013 was all of the training overseas at that point?

[User] It was, it was. All of it was there in Georgia.

[Assistant] So where did you all meet to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sorry. And then one had to be medically evacuated. She would have been there the entire time had she not, but the rest of us all made it through together.

[Assistant] So in 2013 was all of the training overseas at that point?

[User] It was, it was. All of it was there in Georgia.

[Assistant] So where did you all meet to?

[User] So we met in Philadelphia and we were there for, I think, just one evening, and then we left. The next day we took a bus from Philadelphia to JFK, New York, and left from there. And we were, we went through Turkey and Istanbul, and then we went straight to Georgia. And then we were in Georgia in like a little compound area for about three or four days, learning the basics and trying to figure out which cluster they would put us in for our training for the three months of training. And then we left for our villages.

[Assistant] So you were in Georgia's Tbilisi?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, it was. All of it was there in Georgia.

[Assistant] So where did you all meet to?

[User] So we met in Philadelphia and we were there for, I think, just one evening, and then we left. The next day we took a bus from Philadelphia to JFK, New York, and left from there. And we were, we went through Turkey and Istanbul, and then we went straight to Georgia. And then we were in Georgia in like a little compound area for about three or four days, learning the basics and trying to figure out which cluster they would put us in for our training for the three months of training. And then we left for our villages.

[Assistant] So you were in Georgia's Tbilisi?

[User] Tbilisi is the capital, yes.

[Assistant] So you were in Tbilisi for the first couple?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we met in Philadelphia and we were there for, I think, just one evening, and then we left. The next day we took a bus from Philadelphia to JFK, New York, and left from there. And we were, we went through Turkey and Istanbul, and then we went straight to Georgia. And then we were in Georgia in like a little compound area for about three or four days, learning the basics and trying to figure out which cluster they would put us in for our training for the three months of training. And then we left for our villages.

[Assistant] So you were in Georgia's Tbilisi?

[User] Tbilisi is the capital, yes.

[Assistant] So you were in Tbilisi for the first couple?

[User] For the first three or four days, yes.

[Assistant] And then, explain that you were divided, how were you divided up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Tbilisi is the capital, yes.

[Assistant] So you were in Tbilisi for the first couple?

[User] For the first three or four days, yes.

[Assistant] And then, explain that you were divided, how were you divided up?

[User] So we were divided into groups of about five or six each. They kept all of the education volunteers together and all of the IODs, so like individual. I'm not sure what that acronym even stands for, but it's basically like the NGO type volunteers together in their clusters. And then we were each. The main town that we were around was called Khashuri, and we were each in clusters around that town in little villages. And my village was called Kvishkheti and there were six of us there. And we'd have language classes Monday through Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., would break for lunch and have, we would alternate at different people in my, uh, different volunteers in my cluster’s homes' for the lunches. And that way we could alternate and not have to be too much of a burden on each family, you know, every week, every day.

[Assistant] Each one lived in a separate family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For the first three or four days, yes.

[Assistant] And then, explain that you were divided, how were you divided up?

[User] So we were divided into groups of about five or six each. They kept all of the education volunteers together and all of the IODs, so like individual. I'm not sure what that acronym even stands for, but it's basically like the NGO type volunteers together in their clusters. And then we were each. The main town that we were around was called Khashuri, and we were each in clusters around that town in little villages. And my village was called Kvishkheti and there were six of us there. And we'd have language classes Monday through Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., would break for lunch and have, we would alternate at different people in my, uh, different volunteers in my cluster’s homes' for the lunches. And that way we could alternate and not have to be too much of a burden on each family, you know, every week, every day.

[Assistant] Each one lived in a separate family?

[User] Right. We all had different families. Two of them were relative families, but they had different homes. And then in the afternoon we'd have our technical training in Khashuri. And so we would go take a bus, a marshrutka, which is a bus, to the town of Khashuri.

[Assistant] So talk a little bit about your home stay. What was the family like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. We all had different families. Two of them were relative families, but they had different homes. And then in the afternoon we'd have our technical training in Khashuri. And so we would go take a bus, a marshrutka, which is a bus, to the town of Khashuri.

[Assistant] So talk a little bit about your home stay. What was the family like?

[User] It was amazing. My family was a really beautiful family, very sweet family. I had two little brothers and sisters. Dachi was three and Anano was seven, six at the time. She turned seven while I was there. But the family. So in the homes there, whenever a son gets married, his wife comes to live in the house and their family ends up living there as well. And then the daughter, when they get married, they go and live with the husbands of their family. And it was. I had a great grandmother, a grandmother, grandfather, mother and father, and the two siblings.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Right. It was a lot of, a lot of people in one home, but their homes are huge. They're not very warm, but they're huge. They have one petchi, which is like a wood burning stove, to keep the entire house warm. So that's where everyone kind of hangs out.

[Assistant] When you say it's a big house, are these big old houses?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was amazing. My family was a really beautiful family, very sweet family. I had two little brothers and sisters. Dachi was three and Anano was seven, six at the time. She turned seven while I was there. But the family. So in the homes there, whenever a son gets married, his wife comes to live in the house and their family ends up living there as well. And then the daughter, when they get married, they go and live with the husbands of their family. And it was. I had a great grandmother, a grandmother, grandfather, mother and father, and the two siblings.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Right. It was a lot of, a lot of people in one home, but their homes are huge. They're not very warm, but they're huge. They have one petchi, which is like a wood burning stove, to keep the entire house warm. So that's where everyone kind of hangs out.

[Assistant] When you say it's a big house, are these big old houses?

[User] Very old, yes. So they all started out probably like a very like moderate size. And just people add on there. There's not Home Depot type things, so there's a lot of like DIY type additions onto their homes, which again explains.

[Assistant] Oh, each family, as the family grows.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Very old, yes. So they all started out probably like a very like moderate size. And just people add on there. There's not Home Depot type things, so there's a lot of like DIY type additions onto their homes, which again explains.

[Assistant] Oh, each family, as the family grows.

[User] Right, as the family grows, they'll just add more rooms so.

[Assistant] I see.

[User] Yeah, and a lot of the homes end up adding addition of a bathroom because most of the bathrooms are outdoor in Georgia. And so eventually those will come indoor as well. So they're interesting to say the least. My bathroom at my permanent site was an addition onto the house. And during the winter, a whole side of the, one side of the bathroom would freeze and have a block of ice on it the entire winter. And the condensation, whenever you took a shower. We had warm water, which was amazing. So the condensation from the steam would freeze in between showers. And so, like once you finally get the room warm enough to take off all of your clothes and take a shower, these ice pellets would fall on you about the same ratio as the warm water was coming out of the shower. So it was definitely interesting during the summer.

[Assistant] You mean during the winter.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, as the family grows, they'll just add more rooms so.

[Assistant] I see.

[User] Yeah, and a lot of the homes end up adding addition of a bathroom because most of the bathrooms are outdoor in Georgia. And so eventually those will come indoor as well. So they're interesting to say the least. My bathroom at my permanent site was an addition onto the house. And during the winter, a whole side of the, one side of the bathroom would freeze and have a block of ice on it the entire winter. And the condensation, whenever you took a shower. We had warm water, which was amazing. So the condensation from the steam would freeze in between showers. And so, like once you finally get the room warm enough to take off all of your clothes and take a shower, these ice pellets would fall on you about the same ratio as the warm water was coming out of the shower. So it was definitely interesting during the summer.

[Assistant] You mean during the winter.

[User] During the winter, yes. Exactly. The families were so amazingly warm. The word for guest in Georgian is stumari and it literally means gift from God and they definitely treat you as such.

[Assistant] Did they speak English at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and a lot of the homes end up adding addition of a bathroom because most of the bathrooms are outdoor in Georgia. And so eventually those will come indoor as well. So they're interesting to say the least. My bathroom at my permanent site was an addition onto the house. And during the winter, a whole side of the, one side of the bathroom would freeze and have a block of ice on it the entire winter. And the condensation, whenever you took a shower. We had warm water, which was amazing. So the condensation from the steam would freeze in between showers. And so, like once you finally get the room warm enough to take off all of your clothes and take a shower, these ice pellets would fall on you about the same ratio as the warm water was coming out of the shower. So it was definitely interesting during the summer.

[Assistant] You mean during the winter.

[User] During the winter, yes. Exactly. The families were so amazingly warm. The word for guest in Georgian is stumari and it literally means gift from God and they definitely treat you as such.

[Assistant] Did they speak English at all?

[User] My host mother spoke a little bit of English. She had been practicing whenever she got married and she was studying. She actually has a dream of becoming an LCF, which is a language coordinating, coordinator facilitator. Language? No, language and culture facilitator for Peace Corps. That's her dream is to help do that in the future. So hopefully she will get there one day. She had another baby since I left so the dream is slowing down. But yeah, she's, she speaks English. She definitely at that time, I thought, spoke English amazingly well because my Georgian was so minuscule that it was very helpful to have her speaking the English that she did speak. And then after I think I realized that, you know, it wasn't quite as advanced as I had thought it was. But at the time since I.

[Assistant] Compared to your Georgian.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] During the winter, yes. Exactly. The families were so amazingly warm. The word for guest in Georgian is stumari and it literally means gift from God and they definitely treat you as such.

[Assistant] Did they speak English at all?

[User] My host mother spoke a little bit of English. She had been practicing whenever she got married and she was studying. She actually has a dream of becoming an LCF, which is a language coordinating, coordinator facilitator. Language? No, language and culture facilitator for Peace Corps. That's her dream is to help do that in the future. So hopefully she will get there one day. She had another baby since I left so the dream is slowing down. But yeah, she's, she speaks English. She definitely at that time, I thought, spoke English amazingly well because my Georgian was so minuscule that it was very helpful to have her speaking the English that she did speak. And then after I think I realized that, you know, it wasn't quite as advanced as I had thought it was. But at the time since I.

[Assistant] Compared to your Georgian.

[User] Right, exactly, compared to my Georgian and the amount of English I was able to speak with most people in the village, yes, she spoke very well.

[Assistant] And so each one. And then you said you had meals.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My host mother spoke a little bit of English. She had been practicing whenever she got married and she was studying. She actually has a dream of becoming an LCF, which is a language coordinating, coordinator facilitator. Language? No, language and culture facilitator for Peace Corps. That's her dream is to help do that in the future. So hopefully she will get there one day. She had another baby since I left so the dream is slowing down. But yeah, she's, she speaks English. She definitely at that time, I thought, spoke English amazingly well because my Georgian was so minuscule that it was very helpful to have her speaking the English that she did speak. And then after I think I realized that, you know, it wasn't quite as advanced as I had thought it was. But at the time since I.

[Assistant] Compared to your Georgian.

[User] Right, exactly, compared to my Georgian and the amount of English I was able to speak with most people in the village, yes, she spoke very well.

[Assistant] And so each one. And then you said you had meals.

[User] At all of the families' homes. So it was really nice. So yeah. So each volunteer, you know, we would rotate around at their homes and again they treat. These people don't have a whole lot. Like whenever Russia left, pulled out of Georgia, they took a lot of the infrastructure and jobs with them when they left. I mean, factories they just completely gutted and took everything with them. And so a lot of the people that were very prosperous in Soviet times, now were left with nothing and no real skill sets because whatever they had done in the factories were not useful anymore because they didn't have those same jobs. So a lot of people just live off their land and some people work for the railroads and people will work for or they'll teach or they work in little shops. But other than that, there's not much work.

[Assistant] What did the husband in the host family do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, exactly, compared to my Georgian and the amount of English I was able to speak with most people in the village, yes, she spoke very well.

[Assistant] And so each one. And then you said you had meals.

[User] At all of the families' homes. So it was really nice. So yeah. So each volunteer, you know, we would rotate around at their homes and again they treat. These people don't have a whole lot. Like whenever Russia left, pulled out of Georgia, they took a lot of the infrastructure and jobs with them when they left. I mean, factories they just completely gutted and took everything with them. And so a lot of the people that were very prosperous in Soviet times, now were left with nothing and no real skill sets because whatever they had done in the factories were not useful anymore because they didn't have those same jobs. So a lot of people just live off their land and some people work for the railroads and people will work for or they'll teach or they work in little shops. But other than that, there's not much work.

[Assistant] What did the husband in the host family do?

[User] My host dad did not have a job at that time. Now he works for the police department. He started training and worked for the police department now. My mom wasn't working. My grandmother, she just worked at the house, and my grandfather worked on the railroad. So.

[Assistant] And during Soviet times, what did they do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At all of the families' homes. So it was really nice. So yeah. So each volunteer, you know, we would rotate around at their homes and again they treat. These people don't have a whole lot. Like whenever Russia left, pulled out of Georgia, they took a lot of the infrastructure and jobs with them when they left. I mean, factories they just completely gutted and took everything with them. And so a lot of the people that were very prosperous in Soviet times, now were left with nothing and no real skill sets because whatever they had done in the factories were not useful anymore because they didn't have those same jobs. So a lot of people just live off their land and some people work for the railroads and people will work for or they'll teach or they work in little shops. But other than that, there's not much work.

[Assistant] What did the husband in the host family do?

[User] My host dad did not have a job at that time. Now he works for the police department. He started training and worked for the police department now. My mom wasn't working. My grandmother, she just worked at the house, and my grandfather worked on the railroad. So.

[Assistant] And during Soviet times, what did they do?

[User] One worked in a, um, like a material factory, like making textiles and stuff like this. And the dad was working. When the government changes there, a lot of people will lose their jobs because they're affiliated with that type of government. So when the government changed, I'm not even 100% sure what he was doing prior, but he lost his job because of the change. So he kind of just had to like wait until there was a different change, until it went back to the other.

[Assistant] So it's all patronage, you get the job through the party.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My host dad did not have a job at that time. Now he works for the police department. He started training and worked for the police department now. My mom wasn't working. My grandmother, she just worked at the house, and my grandfather worked on the railroad. So.

[Assistant] And during Soviet times, what did they do?

[User] One worked in a, um, like a material factory, like making textiles and stuff like this. And the dad was working. When the government changes there, a lot of people will lose their jobs because they're affiliated with that type of government. So when the government changed, I'm not even 100% sure what he was doing prior, but he lost his job because of the change. So he kind of just had to like wait until there was a different change, until it went back to the other.

[Assistant] So it's all patronage, you get the job through the party.

[User] Right. Exactly. And so but he's happy working for the police department now. So that's good. And my grandfather, I guess, was the breadwinner because he worked for the railroad. But like my host grandmother, great grandmother, I'm sorry, she would make cheese and butter and she would sell that in the bazaar in Tbilisi on the weekends so they could make a little bit of extra money here and there if they needed to.

[Assistant] What was the training like? So you lived with the family and you had language instruction.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One worked in a, um, like a material factory, like making textiles and stuff like this. And the dad was working. When the government changes there, a lot of people will lose their jobs because they're affiliated with that type of government. So when the government changed, I'm not even 100% sure what he was doing prior, but he lost his job because of the change. So he kind of just had to like wait until there was a different change, until it went back to the other.

[Assistant] So it's all patronage, you get the job through the party.

[User] Right. Exactly. And so but he's happy working for the police department now. So that's good. And my grandfather, I guess, was the breadwinner because he worked for the railroad. But like my host grandmother, great grandmother, I'm sorry, she would make cheese and butter and she would sell that in the bazaar in Tbilisi on the weekends so they could make a little bit of extra money here and there if they needed to.

[Assistant] What was the training like? So you lived with the family and you had language instruction.

[User] Right. So language instruction was in the morning.

[Assistant] What else was going on in the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Exactly. And so but he's happy working for the police department now. So that's good. And my grandfather, I guess, was the breadwinner because he worked for the railroad. But like my host grandmother, great grandmother, I'm sorry, she would make cheese and butter and she would sell that in the bazaar in Tbilisi on the weekends so they could make a little bit of extra money here and there if they needed to.

[Assistant] What was the training like? So you lived with the family and you had language instruction.

[User] Right. So language instruction was in the morning.

[Assistant] What else was going on in the training?

[User]
We learned a lot of cultural and technical stuff too. So the afternoon, like obviously a lot of us did have education background, but teaching in Georgia is completely different than teaching in the United States, so they would just go over a different. They would have current volunteers give trainings along with Georgian counterparts. So that way we could get an idea of like what both people, what they expected and what the expectation versus reality might be as well. So, uh, and then we like language, the cultural type stuff, we had like dance classes. We had one Saturday where we just got to make all kinds of Georgian food. And that was really fun. One where we did like dance classes, because dance is a huge part of their culture as well.

Each region of Georgia, it's a very small country, but each region is very proud and very distinct. And so they each have their certain like typical dance and even khachapuri, which is like the most delicious thing on earth. It's a cheese filled bread. Each region of Georgia had a different khachapuri, so that was neat. We got to learn how to make all of those.

[Assistant] So this was all during training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
We learned a lot of cultural and technical stuff too. So the afternoon, like obviously a lot of us did have education background, but teaching in Georgia is completely different than teaching in the United States, so they would just go over a different. They would have current volunteers give trainings along with Georgian counterparts. So that way we could get an idea of like what both people, what they expected and what the expectation versus reality might be as well. So, uh, and then we like language, the cultural type stuff, we had like dance classes. We had one Saturday where we just got to make all kinds of Georgian food. And that was really fun. One where we did like dance classes, because dance is a huge part of their culture as well.

Each region of Georgia, it's a very small country, but each region is very proud and very distinct. And so they each have their certain like typical dance and even khachapuri, which is like the most delicious thing on earth. It's a cheese filled bread. Each region of Georgia had a different khachapuri, so that was neat. We got to learn how to make all of those.

[Assistant] So this was all during training?

[User] All doing training, right. All during those first three months. It was a lot of fun. PST, I hear a lot of people talk about how pre-service training is not fun. But it was one of the highlights of my service for sure. Just because you form such good bonds and your families are so, to us, were so vital and so important in our, and our LCF as well. Our language cultural facilitator was just such an integral part of our service, our happiness in our service in Georgia. So.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] Yeah, it was really great.

[Assistant] And after training, where were you then placed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was really great.

[Assistant] And after training, where were you then placed?

[User]
I was placed in the booming metropolis of Khashuri, which was about 20 minutes away from where I was, where our hub city was, where we had our technical training in the afternoons. And originally I was slightly disappointed in where I was placed because Georgia is an amazing, beautiful country with mountains everywhere, and Khashuri is basically in the middle of the country with not many mountains around. And I just knew Khashuri and I was like, why did I get placed here? I thought it was not the best thing in the world in the beginning, but luckily a few of my friends helped me see. They were like, of course they put you there, Melissa, because Khashuri was where the next training would be and they wanted to put someone there. Well, I don't know that this is true. This is what people have said. That would be able to make good contacts and good relationships, and that way there would be more families that would want to host.

And it just turned out to be really lucky because everyone would always come back to her Khashuri or a village close to there, because that was where they had done their service, their pre-service training. And again, these families were so important and so special to us that everyone would always come back to visit their families. So I had visitors all the time, so and I was right in the middle of the country. So it was very easy to get to the capital. It was very easy to get to the Black Sea. It was very easy to get to the mountains. So it ended up being like a really great location, actually.

[Assistant] And what was your living arrangement there?

[User] There I lived with the family as well. I had a brother and sister. My sister got married almost immediately after I got there. We arrived in July and she got married in September.

[Assistant] That must have been fun.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, beforehand. And I told her, I was like, just wait. And I had told her, you know, the person I thought I loved when I was 15, I'm very happy I'm not with him now, you know, but it's different. It's completely different. And that was really hard for me in the beginning too. I mean, you know, they tell you to go in it with no judgment and no, uh, what's the word they use? Just with a completely open mind. And that's so difficult even though you think that you have an open mind, you think you have no judgments. You're thinking, what are you doing? That's not smart. And that's, it's just different, you know? So I'm happy for her now.

[Assistant] I guess her family didn't think it was such a great idea either so.

[User] Yeah, they were very sad in the beginning. And I figured if they had let her do more things, then I think that it would have been. Because they let their son go on vacation with his friends and it wasn't like she was going on vacation alone with him. She was going 4 hours away. It wasn't like she was going somewhere crazy, and they were going to be with a lot of friends. And in Georgia, people are very well behaved, so like it would have been fine. But Dito said, like, if they don't let me take you to the Black Sea, then I'd have to take you as my wife. And he did that so. Crazy but interesting.

[Assistant] OK, so that was your living arrangement.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] What was your work arrangement?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they were very sad in the beginning. And I figured if they had let her do more things, then I think that it would have been. Because they let their son go on vacation with his friends and it wasn't like she was going on vacation alone with him. She was going 4 hours away. It wasn't like she was going somewhere crazy, and they were going to be with a lot of friends. And in Georgia, people are very well behaved, so like it would have been fine. But Dito said, like, if they don't let me take you to the Black Sea, then I'd have to take you as my wife. And he did that so. Crazy but interesting.

[Assistant] OK, so that was your living arrangement.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] What was your work arrangement?

[User] So I worked my first. I don't remember if it was the first year or the first semester. I worked every day except for, well, not every day. I'm sorry. Every school day except for Friday. So I had Fridays off, which was really lucky.

[Assistant] But where did you work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] What was your work arrangement?

[User] So I worked my first. I don't remember if it was the first year or the first semester. I worked every day except for, well, not every day. I'm sorry. Every school day except for Friday. So I had Fridays off, which was really lucky.

[Assistant] But where did you work?

[User] I was at a school. I was at Khashuri school number five.

[Assistant] And this is an elementary school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I worked my first. I don't remember if it was the first year or the first semester. I worked every day except for, well, not every day. I'm sorry. Every school day except for Friday. So I had Fridays off, which was really lucky.

[Assistant] But where did you work?

[User] I was at a school. I was at Khashuri school number five.

[Assistant] And this is an elementary school?

[User] It's, um, so in Georgia, all of the schools go first grade through 12th grade. So I taught almost every grade level. That first year I didn't teach 12th grade because a lot of times in Georgia, when you're in 12th grade, the kids don't come to school very often. And they, a lot of people have their own private tutors and if they're interested in studying, then they'll go to these private tutors to pass their exams. And if they're not interested in passing the exams or going to college, then they just don't come to school in general unless they want to see their friends every once in a while. So I just taught first through 11th the first year. And the second year I taught 12th just because the 11th graders, I loved them. And so I wanted to follow them to 12th as well. But it's all in the same school building, which is quite interesting. But we had about 400 kids in our school throughout each grade.

[Assistant] And boys and girls together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was at a school. I was at Khashuri school number five.

[Assistant] And this is an elementary school?

[User] It's, um, so in Georgia, all of the schools go first grade through 12th grade. So I taught almost every grade level. That first year I didn't teach 12th grade because a lot of times in Georgia, when you're in 12th grade, the kids don't come to school very often. And they, a lot of people have their own private tutors and if they're interested in studying, then they'll go to these private tutors to pass their exams. And if they're not interested in passing the exams or going to college, then they just don't come to school in general unless they want to see their friends every once in a while. So I just taught first through 11th the first year. And the second year I taught 12th just because the 11th graders, I loved them. And so I wanted to follow them to 12th as well. But it's all in the same school building, which is quite interesting. But we had about 400 kids in our school throughout each grade.

[Assistant] And boys and girls together?

[User] Boys and girls together, yes.

[Assistant] Very good. And let me back up to training. How good was your Georgian and what is Georgian like? Is it like Russian or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Boys and girls together, yes.

[Assistant] Very good. And let me back up to training. How good was your Georgian and what is Georgian like? Is it like Russian or?

[User] And it's completely different than any other language. They have their own alphabet. There's about 4 million people speak it in the world. So it's super obscure. But it's a really, I think it's a pretty language and it's definitely looks beautiful written. It's kind of symbols, not like letters, like we have.

[Assistant] Cyrillic?

[User] It's not Cyrillic, it's its own alphabet. The Georgian alphabet is very unique. There's 32 letters. And there's several ta, ca, and there was one more. Ca, ta, and. Well, you know, I'm not 100% sure what the other letter was, but there are several of these letters that are very repetitive. They just slightly change the accent or the pronunciation is slightly different, but they all sound very similar to me. And then you're missing a few of the letters that we have, like the F and the W. But my Georgian was really pretty decent. I mean, obviously there was, like I said, like the ca and the ta, there are some of these that were like maybe a little bit off. But when we did our LPI, our language proficiency interviews, I believe I scored moderate high. So I think that's pretty good. And I felt like I was able communicate.

[Assistant] This is after training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it's completely different than any other language. They have their own alphabet. There's about 4 million people speak it in the world. So it's super obscure. But it's a really, I think it's a pretty language and it's definitely looks beautiful written. It's kind of symbols, not like letters, like we have.

[Assistant] Cyrillic?

[User] It's not Cyrillic, it's its own alphabet. The Georgian alphabet is very unique. There's 32 letters. And there's several ta, ca, and there was one more. Ca, ta, and. Well, you know, I'm not 100% sure what the other letter was, but there are several of these letters that are very repetitive. They just slightly change the accent or the pronunciation is slightly different, but they all sound very similar to me. And then you're missing a few of the letters that we have, like the F and the W. But my Georgian was really pretty decent. I mean, obviously there was, like I said, like the ca and the ta, there are some of these that were like maybe a little bit off. But when we did our LPI, our language proficiency interviews, I believe I scored moderate high. So I think that's pretty good. And I felt like I was able communicate.

[Assistant] This is after training?

[User] After training, correct. And I was, I continued to learn. My host family was really great about wanting to teach me and they were very patient. So it was really helpful. They loved to learn English too, so it was really good. In fact, every time I made like a visual aid, whenever. My coping mechanism during Peace Corps was, when I would get frustrated, I would make a visual aid for my classroom because it just helped me get some stress out, I guess. And every time I made a visual aid for my class, my host would be like, oh, can you make one for the house as well? We can hang them up here and I was like, OK.

[Assistant] And what were these visual aids like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct, correct. So we worked directly with the English teachers and, you know, I guess like people think like the main reason that we were there was to teach English to the kids, but a lot of it was just to transfer our skills to those teachers. So it could still be, you know, going long after we were gone, or at least their desire to keep learning long after we were gone is still there, right? And to keep improving their teaching. And it was really cool too, because we would do different games and different things. And then I noticed, like other teachers from different subjects would come and be like, Melissa, we're playing this game. What do you think? We're going to do this. And they would. And it was so neat to see like, and maybe they were already coming up with these things on their own. Maybe they were from different trainings, because Georgia was really starting to take education seriously, a lot more serious than it had. I told you, like a lot of times people would go to these private tutors instead of actually coming to school, especially once they got older and in certain subjects. So it was just really neat to see all of that like in these like beginning phases start to come to fruition.

[Assistant] So you went back in '20, in uh, just now?

[User] Right, in March, yes.

[Assistant] Did you go to the school?

[User] Oh, for sure. Of course.

[Assistant] Do think any of these techniques have taken hold?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, in March, yes.

[Assistant] Did you go to the school?

[User] Oh, for sure. Of course.

[Assistant] Do think any of these techniques have taken hold?

[User] Yeah, for sure. There was a Peace Corps volunteer after I left as well.

[Assistant] Was there one before you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, for sure. Of course.

[Assistant] Do think any of these techniques have taken hold?

[User] Yeah, for sure. There was a Peace Corps volunteer after I left as well.

[Assistant] Was there one before you were there?

[User]
Not a Peace Corps volunteer, just this TLG, the Teach Learn Georgia volunteer. So she was amazing as well. And she was much more, um, I guess. She had them like in shape. So I think I laid a really great foundation for what she was able to do later, because I think she was a much more take charge and like, let's get this ball rolling from day one. I was much more like kind of timid, I guess, in the beginning. I wanted to make sure like I didn't step on any toes or do anything like this.

But I think she got there and felt so comfortable that she kept a lot going. And my counterpart, one of them is now teaching in Tbilisi in the capital, because she moved with her family. But the other one is still doing so many different trainings. And Keti, the one that moved to the capital, is also, keeps doing trainings. In fact, one of the Peace Corps coordinators from whenever I was in PST, in the training, she does a lot of English TOTs, like teacher, training of the teachers. And she was recently, Keti, my counterpart, was recently in one. The day that I went and went to visit this school and then had a supra, a big meal with the teachers afterwards, Keti came in town. And she was like, I'm sorry I'm late. I was with Kvansah who was doing this TOT for us for English teaching. So I'm really happy that they're all still super active and super motivated. It's just really cool to see.

[Assistant] That's great. Did you make other friends in town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, extensively. The country is gorgeous. It's, like I said, it's a very small country. It's about the size of South Carolina. But it is amazing, gorgeous. There's the Caucasus Mountains mountain range to the north and to the south, and the Lower Caucasus and the Greater Caucasus. And it's just amazingly gorgeous. And I think it's like ten of the 14 climates in the world as well. So, I mean, you have like the rocky beaches by the Black Sea and then you have this like desert, Davit Garedja, near the capital and then you have like really lush areas as well in Guria and a region that has like all kinds of trees and rolling hills. And then of course, you have the beautiful mountains. So I was able to travel.

[Assistant] Sounds like you really liked Georgia.

[User] I love it. I love Georgia. It's a very special place in my heart because of obviously the beauty of the country and everything, but more because of the people.

[Assistant] Georgia is known for wine as well.

[User] They are. If you ask anyone from Georgia, it is the birthplace of wine and the cradle of wine, they call it. So according to Georgians, and everyone I guess has a different view, but according to Georgians, that is where, it has, I guess, like remains of the oldest human. And there are these qvevris, which is, um, which are these containers that they had underground to store the wine. So like I said, Georgia has, like everyone has their villages. They have a thing called Rtveli in October, I believe? I think it's October maybe. No, I think it's October for sure. October, where you go and pick all the grapes and then you, every, every house has their own house wine. So it was not as delicious is going to the, I shouldn't say that, scratch that. It was definitely delicious. It was quite different than the wine that we have in the United States but um it was.

[Assistant] How is it different?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I love it. I love Georgia. It's a very special place in my heart because of obviously the beauty of the country and everything, but more because of the people.

[Assistant] Georgia is known for wine as well.

[User] They are. If you ask anyone from Georgia, it is the birthplace of wine and the cradle of wine, they call it. So according to Georgians, and everyone I guess has a different view, but according to Georgians, that is where, it has, I guess, like remains of the oldest human. And there are these qvevris, which is, um, which are these containers that they had underground to store the wine. So like I said, Georgia has, like everyone has their villages. They have a thing called Rtveli in October, I believe? I think it's October maybe. No, I think it's October for sure. October, where you go and pick all the grapes and then you, every, every house has their own house wine. So it was not as delicious is going to the, I shouldn't say that, scratch that. It was definitely delicious. It was quite different than the wine that we have in the United States but um it was.

[Assistant] How is it different?

[User] Much more like vinegary. So I guess just the way of distilling it. So in Georgia, they keep all of the stems and the skin of the grape on whenever they're fermenting. So they have different colors. They have like a kind of like a pinkish. It's not like a rosé. It's more, I guess more of an amber type of wine. But they have so many delicious ones as well. But every house has their own wine. And my home, we had three different wines. We had dark red, a red, and then we had a white. And probably the white and the dark red were my very favorite. But they have many different kinds of grapes there and it's a really cool.

[Assistant] I'm glad I asked about it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They are. If you ask anyone from Georgia, it is the birthplace of wine and the cradle of wine, they call it. So according to Georgians, and everyone I guess has a different view, but according to Georgians, that is where, it has, I guess, like remains of the oldest human. And there are these qvevris, which is, um, which are these containers that they had underground to store the wine. So like I said, Georgia has, like everyone has their villages. They have a thing called Rtveli in October, I believe? I think it's October maybe. No, I think it's October for sure. October, where you go and pick all the grapes and then you, every, every house has their own house wine. So it was not as delicious is going to the, I shouldn't say that, scratch that. It was definitely delicious. It was quite different than the wine that we have in the United States but um it was.

[Assistant] How is it different?

[User] Much more like vinegary. So I guess just the way of distilling it. So in Georgia, they keep all of the stems and the skin of the grape on whenever they're fermenting. So they have different colors. They have like a kind of like a pinkish. It's not like a rosé. It's more, I guess more of an amber type of wine. But they have so many delicious ones as well. But every house has their own wine. And my home, we had three different wines. We had dark red, a red, and then we had a white. And probably the white and the dark red were my very favorite. But they have many different kinds of grapes there and it's a really cool.

[Assistant] I'm glad I asked about it.

[User] Right? Me too. I would almost skip that, which would have been a horror for any Georgian if they had heard this later. Like, why did you not talk about the wine?

[Assistant] When you were there, did you stay in touch with your family back in the United States?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I was able to have Wi-Fi. So I could, from my smartphone, like look at things or from my iPad or from my. Yeah, it was great. I was like, what? I have Wi-Fi. I'm in like Georgia and like since I had been in this very tiny remote village and now I'm in the big city of Khashuri I had Wi-Fi, so it was pretty awesome to be able to be that connected.

[Assistant] And are you staying connected to your family and friends now?

[User] For sure. Back in Georgia?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, the world is so much smaller now than it used to be.

[Assistant] So using Facebook?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, the world is so much smaller now than it used to be.

[Assistant] So using Facebook?

[User] Facebook is probably the biggest. But we also do like Facebook Messenger. We'll like call each other or leave voice messages.

[Assistant] Oh really?

[User] Yeah, because to call is very expensive. But you can call in like the Messenger app on Facebook. My friends in Mexico and I always use WhatsApp and that really hasn't taken off in Georgia yet, which I'm surprised. But Facebook Messenger is pretty prevalent there. So yeah.

[Assistant] It's very different than when I was in the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, because to call is very expensive. But you can call in like the Messenger app on Facebook. My friends in Mexico and I always use WhatsApp and that really hasn't taken off in Georgia yet, which I'm surprised. But Facebook Messenger is pretty prevalent there. So yeah.

[Assistant] It's very different than when I was in the Peace Corps.

[User] So different. So different. I can't imagine like.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah, I was very, very lucky.

[Assistant] Very different. So you spent two years there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So different. So different. I can't imagine like.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah, I was very, very lucky.

[Assistant] Very different. So you spent two years there.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And as you reflect back, what do you think the impact of Peace Corps has been on your life?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was very, very lucky.

[Assistant] Very different. So you spent two years there.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And as you reflect back, what do you think the impact of Peace Corps has been on your life?

[User]
I mean, I think it's immeasurable the impact it's had on my life. And it's, I mean, definitely just like made me grow as a person. You know, I had so many great experiences there and there are so many times that I really thought about leaving and coming home. And my friends convinced me not to because there were times when it was really hard. And I think being there, and there's such an importance of family. And I left when I was 33. I turned 34 when I was there and 35. And then I had my 36th birthday right when I left. And I thought, you know, like there was times when I would really question like the reason I was there and if I was making an impact. And I thought, I just need to go home and start having children, like what am I doing? And I'm so glad I didn't do. Not that I didn't want children or anything like that.

But I'm so glad I didn't leave because every single day that was there was important to the whole journey there. And the amount of relationships that I made, both with people in Georgia as well as like my other Peace Corps volunteers, our government issued friends. Those are relationships that are still such a huge part of my life and that make you thankful for all the things that you have here.

[Assistant] Everybody says that these are such deep relationships. Why do you think they're so deep?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I should have, I should have.

[Assistant] You could still do that now.

[User] I could. But unfortunately, a lot of the things you can't get here, like even like vanilla there is a powdered form. It's not a liquid form. So that makes a huge difference in how things taste and they are much more into, um, not so moist. So like they would make cakes and they were delicious as well, but much more dry than we are here, so than we have here. And like cookies, they're pretty nonexistent there. They did have some things, Britannia, which is like a Russian cookie, but it's much more less flavorful and much more hard and.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] Yeah. So they. Snickerdoodles to them, which snickerdoodles is one that's not so hard. My host family, they have all of my recipes written down and they love them. But I don't know how often they make them.

[Assistant] You could have a Melissa Bakery.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I could. But unfortunately, a lot of the things you can't get here, like even like vanilla there is a powdered form. It's not a liquid form. So that makes a huge difference in how things taste and they are much more into, um, not so moist. So like they would make cakes and they were delicious as well, but much more dry than we are here, so than we have here. And like cookies, they're pretty nonexistent there. They did have some things, Britannia, which is like a Russian cookie, but it's much more less flavorful and much more hard and.

[Assistant] Hmm.

[User] Yeah. So they. Snickerdoodles to them, which snickerdoodles is one that's not so hard. My host family, they have all of my recipes written down and they love them. But I don't know how often they make them.

[Assistant] You could have a Melissa Bakery.

[User] Right? No, one of the language coordinating, language cultural facilitators, when I was there in March. She was like, Melissa, I have this business plan. You have to come and we have to open this, a bakery in Tbilisi. And I was like, OK, Ana, if I ever get like, you know, enough money and enough like excitement to come back here and live across the world again, that would be a fun job for sure. Because I loved baking when I was there. There was so much time. Even though we were working hard and doing a lot of things, you still had so much free time because you're not driving anywhere. You're not going to the movies, you're not doing any of these. In fact, I never went out to eat with my host family, not once. They don't go out to dinner or anything like that. They have dinner at home. That's just how it is. So we had lots of time to cook lots of things.

[Assistant] So what do you think your impact was in Georgia or in your town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I'm a flight attendant still.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User]
I went back to flying. I've been back there about a year and a half, but I also substitute teach as well at the same school that I've been for about ten years. And so they are very kind and they will let me, every March, do a big presentation for Peace Corps and the kids go crazy because I'll write their names in Georgian. And in fact, I like have like a little piece of paper that I basically just Xeroxed and I put it on red because Georgia's color, Georgia's color, the flag is red and white. But I write the whole alphabet for them and its English letter translation. And so they're able. One little girl was like writing all of her, all of her like diary entries, journal entries for school, in Georgian letters. But English words, but with Georgian letters. And that to me is really cool. And they like, they learn the word gaumarjos and. Or not gaumarjos. Gamarjoba, which is hello. Gaumarjos is cheers. I did not teach them that one, but yeah. So it's really neat.

And I mean on the airplane as well. Like people will say, oh, you speak Spanish so well. I'm like, yeah, and they're like, that's so cool. You're bilingual. I'm like, actually, I speak more than two. And they're like, what other language? And so I'm able to share a little bit then as well. So it's nice. It's really nice.

[Assistant] Excellent. Excellent.

[User] Thanks.

[Assistant] So it's a really good interview. Thank you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I think, no one. Everybody, you know. I had really few close friends in college. I had a few friends. But because of my kind of reticence to be out there, people made friends with me and I accepted their friendship, but I didn't really hang out with the guy as much or do things. So I didn't have a lot of close friends who would be asking me personal questions. They just said, oh yeah, he's going off to the Peace Corps. So off I went. There wasn't any. And at home, they were, you know, they were, you know, some concern about me going off far away, but not really. They were just glad that I had a mission and a goal and some place that I wanted to do, something that I wanted to do.

[Assistant] What project were you invited to join and how did you prepare yourself and others for being away two years?

[User] Well, I think I was just pretty naive, and I figured I'd just go and see how things worked out. I think when I got to Utah, then they started telling us some of the things we wouldn't be eating. You know, I bought some gear, some rough gear, heavy shoes and stuff. And I bought a pair of postal shoes, postmen's shoes. There was a place, I think it was maybe like a Army-Navy surplus store they recommend we go to. So I did some shopping there. Those shoes, I used a lot.

[Assistant] Now that was in Salt Lake?

[User] That was in Salt Lake City, so I didn't really get prepared until I went there and started the training because I just, you know, I figured things would happened as I needed to have them happen. So we got our Peace Corps trunk there, and we just filled it up and sent it off and. It's just kind of, that's kind of how my life is. I take a step and then see where I am and see what I need to do to make the next step.

[Assistant] So did you train fully in Salt Lake City or did you train some in Ethiopia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was in Salt Lake City, so I didn't really get prepared until I went there and started the training because I just, you know, I figured things would happened as I needed to have them happen. So we got our Peace Corps trunk there, and we just filled it up and sent it off and. It's just kind of, that's kind of how my life is. I take a step and then see where I am and see what I need to do to make the next step.

[Assistant] So did you train fully in Salt Lake City or did you train some in Ethiopia?

[User] It was fully in Utah. It wasn't fully in Salt Lake City.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] The story they tell us, they told us, was that the director of training had visited Ethiopia the year before and was in such culture shock that he designed, redesigned, the training so that we spent four weeks, three or four weeks of our training in the desert of Utah, living in tents in red mud or dirt, depending on the weather. They scraped off the topsoil, planted these tents there. It was across the street from a school. They bussed in Native American children from the reservation, and they were guinea pigs for TESL. So we had three to four weeks at least, it might have been six, but I think it was three to four weeks of training in this place in the desert. But the rest of it was back in Salt Lake City at a university, so it was sort of semi in-country training. His best attempt at in-country training, which was the director's vision of how challenging Ethiopia would be.

[Assistant] Now did you have language training there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was fully in Utah. It wasn't fully in Salt Lake City.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] The story they tell us, they told us, was that the director of training had visited Ethiopia the year before and was in such culture shock that he designed, redesigned, the training so that we spent four weeks, three or four weeks of our training in the desert of Utah, living in tents in red mud or dirt, depending on the weather. They scraped off the topsoil, planted these tents there. It was across the street from a school. They bussed in Native American children from the reservation, and they were guinea pigs for TESL. So we had three to four weeks at least, it might have been six, but I think it was three to four weeks of training in this place in the desert. But the rest of it was back in Salt Lake City at a university, so it was sort of semi in-country training. His best attempt at in-country training, which was the director's vision of how challenging Ethiopia would be.

[Assistant] Now did you have language training there?

[User] Yes, we did.

[Assistant] How was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The story they tell us, they told us, was that the director of training had visited Ethiopia the year before and was in such culture shock that he designed, redesigned, the training so that we spent four weeks, three or four weeks of our training in the desert of Utah, living in tents in red mud or dirt, depending on the weather. They scraped off the topsoil, planted these tents there. It was across the street from a school. They bussed in Native American children from the reservation, and they were guinea pigs for TESL. So we had three to four weeks at least, it might have been six, but I think it was three to four weeks of training in this place in the desert. But the rest of it was back in Salt Lake City at a university, so it was sort of semi in-country training. His best attempt at in-country training, which was the director's vision of how challenging Ethiopia would be.

[Assistant] Now did you have language training there?

[User] Yes, we did.

[Assistant] How was that?

[User] We had Ethiopian speakers, university students staying in the United States, taking classes as university students in the States, and they gave us our language training. We had, I don't remember the schedule, but we had several hours a day, and we had, I think there were tapes we could listen to also and practice.

[Assistant] OK, kind of talk about the faculty or the syllabus or technical studies and your reaction to other trainees.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we did.

[Assistant] How was that?

[User] We had Ethiopian speakers, university students staying in the United States, taking classes as university students in the States, and they gave us our language training. We had, I don't remember the schedule, but we had several hours a day, and we had, I think there were tapes we could listen to also and practice.

[Assistant] OK, kind of talk about the faculty or the syllabus or technical studies and your reaction to other trainees.

[User] We had culture studies, we had language studies, we have kind of history. We had a history of Ethiopia for part and the part where we're just doing the culture. Some of that was linked with language studies. Some of it was a kind of a separate kind of a thing. But we spent a lot of time in terms of trying to understand the culture and trying to figure out how we would actually interact in that culture. And then the language is the language, you know, how you need to do some, how you get to the marketplace and how you do all the different things that you need to do in order to live a daily life. And then there was the regular TESL, you know, teaching us how to be TESL teachers. So that's not something that I had done before, but it was. We had those different kinds of classes, and everybody knew their stuff very well, and I think they did a really good job of getting us.

[Assistant] OK, what about the selection process? Were there are surprises, disappointments, enjoyments? Like how many started out and how many made it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Loosen up and relate to people. So I enjoyed it. I like to dance and stuff like that. So it was fine. It's just that my intensity was that I wanted to study the language. So I got there. I would stay in my tent while they were going off partying or going off on trips to the mountain or whatever.

[Assistant] Yeah, it was kind of the same with me. I trained in Portland, Oregon, for about a month and I really wanted to study the language and several people would go to the mountains or the ocean. And I didn't go and I stayed behind, but I made it anyway.

[User] You made it in. Well, yeah. So those stories are very true. The language struggle is a big one, and I think it's a challenging one. So it's a lot of pressure, and I was worried. But I felt, you know, a good feeling from all the trainers and everybody. I think them slipping me the word that I needed to be more social through my these buddies was, you know, a good thing for them to have done. So I'm grateful for the whole thing.

[Assistant] So it sounds like the training prepared you, and it was pretty useful as part of your service.

[User] Yes, I thought it was. They did fine. I was prepared as much as anybody could be prepared to do such things. I wasn't, you know, being a teacher in TESL means I was going to a traditional school and I was going to be teaching in the classroom or something. It wasn't, you know, many projects are a lot more open-ended than mine. So I was prepared fine for my project.

[Assistant] So you pretty much knew what you were going to do and you knew how to do it. What about your initial entry into and reaction to the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You made it in. Well, yeah. So those stories are very true. The language struggle is a big one, and I think it's a challenging one. So it's a lot of pressure, and I was worried. But I felt, you know, a good feeling from all the trainers and everybody. I think them slipping me the word that I needed to be more social through my these buddies was, you know, a good thing for them to have done. So I'm grateful for the whole thing.

[Assistant] So it sounds like the training prepared you, and it was pretty useful as part of your service.

[User] Yes, I thought it was. They did fine. I was prepared as much as anybody could be prepared to do such things. I wasn't, you know, being a teacher in TESL means I was going to a traditional school and I was going to be teaching in the classroom or something. It wasn't, you know, many projects are a lot more open-ended than mine. So I was prepared fine for my project.

[Assistant] So you pretty much knew what you were going to do and you knew how to do it. What about your initial entry into and reaction to the country?

[User] I was in awe. There was, it was a very harsh introduction in a way to Ethiopia. Because we got there at dusk. We flew in. It was beautiful, you know, coming in over the mountains into Addis Ababa at night. And as usual, I stayed in the hotel. Some people were going out. And at one point we heard this commotion downstairs. We were out on the balcony looking out at the night in the city and stuff like that. And some other people went down. Later on that evening, we heard that there were a couple of married couples in our group, and several people had been standing out by the curb and a taxi had gotten out of control and it smashed into the crowd and the wife died.

[Assistant] One of the volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was in awe. There was, it was a very harsh introduction in a way to Ethiopia. Because we got there at dusk. We flew in. It was beautiful, you know, coming in over the mountains into Addis Ababa at night. And as usual, I stayed in the hotel. Some people were going out. And at one point we heard this commotion downstairs. We were out on the balcony looking out at the night in the city and stuff like that. And some other people went down. Later on that evening, we heard that there were a couple of married couples in our group, and several people had been standing out by the curb and a taxi had gotten out of control and it smashed into the crowd and the wife died.

[Assistant] One of the volunteers?

[User] One of the volunteers. The wife died and the husband went back home. So that was our first night in the area.

[Assistant] Sheesh.

[User] So it was pretty, you know, serious business. You were there. And people, I don't think anybody else left at that point. But it was, you know, you knew this was, we're in here for keeps. This is, we're not messing around here. You've got to, you know, cause things can happen. I mean, it's kind of like, things can happen, are you ready for this or not?

[Assistant] That was just like a freak accident?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One of the volunteers. The wife died and the husband went back home. So that was our first night in the area.

[Assistant] Sheesh.

[User] So it was pretty, you know, serious business. You were there. And people, I don't think anybody else left at that point. But it was, you know, you knew this was, we're in here for keeps. This is, we're not messing around here. You've got to, you know, cause things can happen. I mean, it's kind of like, things can happen, are you ready for this or not?

[Assistant] That was just like a freak accident?

[User] It was just a freak accident. It just, I mean, it was just a terrible, terrible thing. That was our first night. And I think everybody kind of banded together and just took a real deep breath and said, OK, well, we're here. We're going to do it. But it sure is hard.

[Assistant] Oh, I guess you never did mention like how many started out and how many ended up, approximately?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was pretty, you know, serious business. You were there. And people, I don't think anybody else left at that point. But it was, you know, you knew this was, we're in here for keeps. This is, we're not messing around here. You've got to, you know, cause things can happen. I mean, it's kind of like, things can happen, are you ready for this or not?

[Assistant] That was just like a freak accident?

[User] It was just a freak accident. It just, I mean, it was just a terrible, terrible thing. That was our first night. And I think everybody kind of banded together and just took a real deep breath and said, OK, well, we're here. We're going to do it. But it sure is hard.

[Assistant] Oh, I guess you never did mention like how many started out and how many ended up, approximately?

[User] Well, I don't know in terms of numbers. I think we were less than 100. I think maybe 50 or 60 people. And I think probably, you know, 45 to 50 people went over. A few self-selected and a few are selected out. I can't really remember the numbers at this point anymore. I still have my book from training of all the pictures of all the people, and I could look at it, I guess, and figure that out.

[Assistant] Yeah, cause in our group, we started with a hundred and we ended up with 50 and we didn't know until the day before we were going to go who was. And we didn't even get a chance to go back home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just a freak accident. It just, I mean, it was just a terrible, terrible thing. That was our first night. And I think everybody kind of banded together and just took a real deep breath and said, OK, well, we're here. We're going to do it. But it sure is hard.

[Assistant] Oh, I guess you never did mention like how many started out and how many ended up, approximately?

[User] Well, I don't know in terms of numbers. I think we were less than 100. I think maybe 50 or 60 people. And I think probably, you know, 45 to 50 people went over. A few self-selected and a few are selected out. I can't really remember the numbers at this point anymore. I still have my book from training of all the pictures of all the people, and I could look at it, I guess, and figure that out.

[Assistant] Yeah, cause in our group, we started with a hundred and we ended up with 50 and we didn't know until the day before we were going to go who was. And we didn't even get a chance to go back home.

[User] Oh really? Oh, well, we were much more. I got a chance to go back home before I left. I left, actually, you know, from my family's home to Chicago then to New York City, then flying across the ocean. So yeah, we got to go back home. And it wasn't that, it wasn't. I mean, we knew, you know, the last two weeks. You know, after that session in the desert, if we got through that part, we were pretty much sure we were going. We did have to pass the language test and that was like the last hurdle. But if you pass the language test then. I was at a T2? I forget, something like that. A level two or a level three or something. And then if you got that, you're pretty much going at that point. Unless you decided not to.

[Assistant] Yeah. Can you describe your project, the PC staff, the impression of local people, physical environment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were there for a long time.

[Assistant] So how large was this?

[User] Well, there was, um. It was a very provincial provisional capital. There were, uh, just at the end of the first year there was a bakery started. It was kind of more like a what you would call a Western or European bakery. I tried some of their bread, it was. They needed to take care of rodent protection, rodent control. It was a little, you had to pick through it. But you know, the only other businesses were the local market and, you know, the local tea houses and coffee houses and places where you could go. You know, there were restaurants, but very local restaurants. Very good food. You got used to the food that way. And the local markets that were. In the city there were, you know, Western style restaurants and Western style hotels and stuff like that.

[Assistant] How far away was the city? Is that Addis Ababa?

[User] Addis Ababa? I went there, um, at the end of the semester and at the end of the year. I went there twice in that first year.

[Assistant] So you couldn't like go out once a month to a city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was, um. It was a very provincial provisional capital. There were, uh, just at the end of the first year there was a bakery started. It was kind of more like a what you would call a Western or European bakery. I tried some of their bread, it was. They needed to take care of rodent protection, rodent control. It was a little, you had to pick through it. But you know, the only other businesses were the local market and, you know, the local tea houses and coffee houses and places where you could go. You know, there were restaurants, but very local restaurants. Very good food. You got used to the food that way. And the local markets that were. In the city there were, you know, Western style restaurants and Western style hotels and stuff like that.

[Assistant] How far away was the city? Is that Addis Ababa?

[User] Addis Ababa? I went there, um, at the end of the semester and at the end of the year. I went there twice in that first year.

[Assistant] So you couldn't like go out once a month to a city?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You were really stuck.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Addis Ababa? I went there, um, at the end of the semester and at the end of the year. I went there twice in that first year.

[Assistant] So you couldn't like go out once a month to a city?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You were really stuck.

[User] There was no going out to a city. That's why the second year they sent married couples there, the next year.

[Assistant] Because we had pretty much, we lived, I was in a village and we needed to go into the big city, you know, at least once a month.