[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn't work past our eight hours. No one did. You might stay a few minutes, but no one worked until eight and nine o'clock at night as they do now, nor on the weekends. But I was so excited, because when it was my project and had the responsibility of the entire vehicle, I couldn't wait until Monday morning to get back to work. Can you imagine? It was that exciting.\n\n I was married and ultimately had two daughters, fortunate enough to have full-time help, because that was how I could work…to make sure I had someone at my house at all times. But still, I just loved my work, just really, and still do, and I'm happy to say I'm still working.

[Assistant] Good. Good.

[User] That's exciting. I'll let you ask another question. I hope you can edit out all these little side things.

[Assistant] We want to hear them all. When you graduated with your mathematics degree, before NACA talked to you, did you have any idea what you wanted to do with that degree?

[User] Yes, I was going to teach, and I was going to teach high school geometry, because that's what I did my practice teaching in. But by not having any idea, when NACA recruited us and we got to Langley Field, I had never heard the word "Mach number" or "Reynolds number" or any of the terms. I knew nothing about it. And so my job was to do mathematical support for the engineers. Then as time went on, there's an old expression now, "I used to not be able to spell engineer and now I are one." [Laughter]

[Assistant] You graduated in 1948 and went to work with NACA. Ten years later, the United States formed NASA, and you just automatically fell into that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's exciting. I'll let you ask another question. I hope you can edit out all these little side things.

[Assistant] We want to hear them all. When you graduated with your mathematics degree, before NACA talked to you, did you have any idea what you wanted to do with that degree?

[User] Yes, I was going to teach, and I was going to teach high school geometry, because that's what I did my practice teaching in. But by not having any idea, when NACA recruited us and we got to Langley Field, I had never heard the word "Mach number" or "Reynolds number" or any of the terms. I knew nothing about it. And so my job was to do mathematical support for the engineers. Then as time went on, there's an old expression now, "I used to not be able to spell engineer and now I are one." [Laughter]

[Assistant] You graduated in 1948 and went to work with NACA. Ten years later, the United States formed NASA, and you just automatically fell into that.

[User] Automatically became part of NASA, yes.

[Assistant] Was there a transition for you, or did it just fall right into place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. He was not dynamic at all. His wife was a cute little gal. She died very suddenly. They had been friends of a couple in New York, where the man was extremely dynamic, one of the most dynamic men I've ever met. He was vice president of Grumman [Aircraft Engineering Corporation] at the time. He dropped dead suddenly. And his wife, who is a charming, lovely, quiet gal, the two quiet people married each other, having lost their spouses.

[Assistant] Did you see a lot of Bob Gilruth during those early days?

[User] Oh, yes. When he progressed from division chief up to the directorate—and I don't know if you're familiar with the organization of NASA. In your headquarters of the local centers, you have directors of different groups of people. As Max was director of engineering and development, so was Gilruth at Langley director of engineering. You have operations directors and what have you. As I said, we were all friends…\n\n And here I had a breakfast, a brunch one Sunday. I was with Gilruth in L.A., waiting for an airplane, and I said, "You know, I want to tell Max how much I appreciate him, how much I love this man."\n\n And Bob said, "Well, you should."\n\n And I said, "I want to have a party." So I had a Sunday brunch, and Gilruth and his second wife, and the Fagets and two other couples. Did you interview any people other than JSC [Johnson Space Center] people?

[Assistant] Here and there.

[User] And so I had a chance to entertain both the Gilruths and the Fagets. Of course, Nancy and I were very close friends. We were neighbors for a while up in Virginia [and] we were neighbors [here] and friends, so I've seen them for—fifty years? Yes. Great day! I wish I hadn't said that. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Well, it's been a busy and full fifty years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I had a chance to entertain both the Gilruths and the Fagets. Of course, Nancy and I were very close friends. We were neighbors for a while up in Virginia [and] we were neighbors [here] and friends, so I've seen them for—fifty years? Yes. Great day! I wish I hadn't said that. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Well, it's been a busy and full fifty years.

[User] It has. It has. Each day, even while I'm not working at the moment because of—I'll tell you that later—I stay busy. I have a desk. I have a ten-by-twelve room that I call my desk room. I can't call it my office, although it is filled with the thirty-nine years of NASA projects and Christmas presents I buy along the way. They're on the floor. This ten-by-twelve room has three file cabinets, eight bookcases, and it's crowded. [Laughter] And I'll go in there and sit down as if I'm at work. I'll go through things.

[Assistant] Before NASA became NASA, there was an event that occurred that took most Americans by surprise, and that was the launch of Sputnik. Of course, you were there.

[User] I was thrilled to death, frankly. It meant we would get money. We would get funding to do those ideas that people like Max and Gilruth had. Because we were an advisory committee for industry or what have you before NASA was formed. Indeed, we would advise companies in how to design or help them in their airplane design. P-51s, for instance, and, I think, P-47… Those were helped by NACA engineers.

[Assistant] Were you surprised? Was the group at Langley surprised to hear this, or did they know?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It has. It has. Each day, even while I'm not working at the moment because of—I'll tell you that later—I stay busy. I have a desk. I have a ten-by-twelve room that I call my desk room. I can't call it my office, although it is filled with the thirty-nine years of NASA projects and Christmas presents I buy along the way. They're on the floor. This ten-by-twelve room has three file cabinets, eight bookcases, and it's crowded. [Laughter] And I'll go in there and sit down as if I'm at work. I'll go through things.

[Assistant] Before NASA became NASA, there was an event that occurred that took most Americans by surprise, and that was the launch of Sputnik. Of course, you were there.

[User] I was thrilled to death, frankly. It meant we would get money. We would get funding to do those ideas that people like Max and Gilruth had. Because we were an advisory committee for industry or what have you before NASA was formed. Indeed, we would advise companies in how to design or help them in their airplane design. P-51s, for instance, and, I think, P-47… Those were helped by NACA engineers.

[Assistant] Were you surprised? Was the group at Langley surprised to hear this, or did they know?

[User] I wish I could remember that. When it was launched, my husband and I and children were driving to Florida to his twin brother's graduation, getting a master's in something. Well, we were excited about that, because we knew how it would help us, but whether we knew it or not, I don't remember. That's a question you'd have to ask Max. [Laughter] Those people. I don't remember.

[Assistant] But you saw a change afterwards?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] But using that past experience.

[User] Oh, yes. Each door or each step took us up higher on the ladder, technically.

[Assistant] That night on your way home, did you think about the time that Max Faget had told you that we were going to go to the moon?

[User] No. And interestingly enough, I didn't think about the time when I was ten and sitting out in New Orleans looking at the stars, and knowing we were going to the moon. That didn't enter my head then. I think I was tired, I felt sorry for myself that everybody else was partying and I wasn't. [Laughter] I did not think—I'm sorry to say I did not think about those fabulous things. I do now.

[Assistant] And even the time when you heard—or heard about—Kennedy making the challenge to America that we should do that, what were your first thoughts on that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Each door or each step took us up higher on the ladder, technically.

[Assistant] That night on your way home, did you think about the time that Max Faget had told you that we were going to go to the moon?

[User] No. And interestingly enough, I didn't think about the time when I was ten and sitting out in New Orleans looking at the stars, and knowing we were going to the moon. That didn't enter my head then. I think I was tired, I felt sorry for myself that everybody else was partying and I wasn't. [Laughter] I did not think—I'm sorry to say I did not think about those fabulous things. I do now.

[Assistant] And even the time when you heard—or heard about—Kennedy making the challenge to America that we should do that, what were your first thoughts on that?

[User] I knew we'd do it. Of course, with the Apollo fire, which was an awful experience, but one that was necessary, apparently, Johnny and I and another couple were driving to New Orleans to go to a Mardi Gras ball. When we got to the motel, the radio, for some reason, was on in our room, and they were talking about the fire on the Apollo. I said, "It's not due to lift off now…”\n\n Well…we go to dinner, and Johnny has to catch a plane to come back to help on the investigation of [the fire], so I stay with this couple, because we're in our car. We go to the ball… But [the fire] was an awful experience, and it's a shame that some lessons have to be learned through tragedy…

[Assistant] Did you ever have any doubt that America would pick up its program and begin again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, because each was unique, had its own challenge. I can't say that I was happier any time than another. I enjoyed it all, absolutely loved every [day]—I had a boss tell me—and he was assistant division chief—he said, "Dottie, if you were a man, you would have been a boss." I don't remember what I said, but I would not have wanted it. I had the best job at JSC, absolutely. And being that manager toward the end did involve some personnel activity and some necessary paperwork and getting money, but, no, I liked doing what I did.

[Assistant] When you began your career, it was during a time period in America that women were not easily recognized or even encouraged to go into the fields that you did.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Do you feel like your gender held you back at all from progressing through your career?

[User] Well, I did not get, in the beginning, raises as the others because I wasn't a graduate engineer. Ultimately I did. It just took a little longer. And the men, oh, they liked me, they just didn't really want me to be their equal. Chauvinism existed more then than now. They'd want to help me. I don't object to being helped in the car. Fine. I want to be a woman first. But I don't want to be recognized because I'm a woman; I want to be recognized because I can do the job. That would be the only thing that would make me resent being rewarded [if only] because I'm a woman.

[Assistant] Being remembered for all that you've done, if you had to pick, is there one area that you would like to be remembered for, for your contributions more than all the rest that you've been able to do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Do you feel like your gender held you back at all from progressing through your career?

[User] Well, I did not get, in the beginning, raises as the others because I wasn't a graduate engineer. Ultimately I did. It just took a little longer. And the men, oh, they liked me, they just didn't really want me to be their equal. Chauvinism existed more then than now. They'd want to help me. I don't object to being helped in the car. Fine. I want to be a woman first. But I don't want to be recognized because I'm a woman; I want to be recognized because I can do the job. That would be the only thing that would make me resent being rewarded [if only] because I'm a woman.

[Assistant] Being remembered for all that you've done, if you had to pick, is there one area that you would like to be remembered for, for your contributions more than all the rest that you've been able to do?

[User] Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the story I told you, based on what I told those men about status of aeroheating in Shuttle. They would recommend to the President we'd launch. I guess I would want to be remembered that I did my work professionally, with a professional attitude, but with a sense of humor and graciously. I am appreciative of the men who touched my life, and I'd want to be remembered by those whose [lives] I touched. I'm extremely proud of what I did. And I guess that would be a way to end, wouldn't it. [Laughter] Unless you have more questions.

[Assistant] I'm going to ask Carol and Sandra if they have some questions for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I did not get, in the beginning, raises as the others because I wasn't a graduate engineer. Ultimately I did. It just took a little longer. And the men, oh, they liked me, they just didn't really want me to be their equal. Chauvinism existed more then than now. They'd want to help me. I don't object to being helped in the car. Fine. I want to be a woman first. But I don't want to be recognized because I'm a woman; I want to be recognized because I can do the job. That would be the only thing that would make me resent being rewarded [if only] because I'm a woman.

[Assistant] Being remembered for all that you've done, if you had to pick, is there one area that you would like to be remembered for, for your contributions more than all the rest that you've been able to do?

[User] Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the story I told you, based on what I told those men about status of aeroheating in Shuttle. They would recommend to the President we'd launch. I guess I would want to be remembered that I did my work professionally, with a professional attitude, but with a sense of humor and graciously. I am appreciative of the men who touched my life, and I'd want to be remembered by those whose [lives] I touched. I'm extremely proud of what I did. And I guess that would be a way to end, wouldn't it. [Laughter] Unless you have more questions.

[Assistant] I'm going to ask Carol and Sandra if they have some questions for you.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] If that's okay with you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the story I told you, based on what I told those men about status of aeroheating in Shuttle. They would recommend to the President we'd launch. I guess I would want to be remembered that I did my work professionally, with a professional attitude, but with a sense of humor and graciously. I am appreciative of the men who touched my life, and I'd want to be remembered by those whose [lives] I touched. I'm extremely proud of what I did. And I guess that would be a way to end, wouldn't it. [Laughter] Unless you have more questions.

[Assistant] I'm going to ask Carol and Sandra if they have some questions for you.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] If that's okay with you.

[User] Certainly.

[Assistant]
Do you have anything?

Probably lots, but I don't want to waste all your time. [Laughter]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] If that's okay with you.

[User] Certainly.

[Assistant]
Do you have anything?

Probably lots, but I don't want to waste all your time. [Laughter]

[User] This is quite a compliment to me that I am being part of this historical—

[Assistant] One question, I guess, is that you went to college at a time when it wasn't that usual for women to go right into college after high school. Was that something that you just accepted as you were growing up, that that's the way it was going to be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Certainly.

[Assistant]
Do you have anything?

Probably lots, but I don't want to waste all your time. [Laughter]

[User] This is quite a compliment to me that I am being part of this historical—

[Assistant] One question, I guess, is that you went to college at a time when it wasn't that usual for women to go right into college after high school. Was that something that you just accepted as you were growing up, that that's the way it was going to be?

[User] Yes, I knew I was going to college when I was a little child. Again, I was a very fortunate child, being the only one in the family and there were means to let me go. Interestingly enough, in New Orleans the high schools were such that it was all girls or all boys, and in camp in the summer it was all girls. Then I go to college, where it's all girls. I never had a football team. [Laughter] Consequently, when my girls went to a high school here, every Friday night we went to the football games. [Laughter] But I knew. I was just lucky, very, very fortunate child and person.\n\n Part of that fortunate bit, as a child they would put me in a room and bring the clothes. I could say yes or no to whatever they brought in, and I received many clothes from the time I was little. To this day I can't walk into a department store and buy my clothes. I have a friend who owns a shop in Dickinson. She'll buy for me when she goes to market or she has trunk shows, and if I can't make it, she'll say, "Dottie'll want that." …When she sells the shop, I don't know what I'm going to do. [Laughter] And I, likewise, have spoiled my girls, I'm sorry to say. However, my daughters inherit my clothes.

[Assistant] Now that you brought it up, I really want to ask, all those times you were at Wallops Island, at a time when women didn't wear pants—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Never. And today when I read about women that—what is it they call it? Harassment? Not that I want to say that they ask for it, and I'm not a beauty like my mother, but I was never embarrassed. If they embarrassed me, I didn't know it. I was too naive and I brushed it off and dismissed it as if it was a joke for the day. Never would I have any occasion to have to—of course, I worked with professional men and in an environment, a very sheltered world. NASA really provided a very sheltered world. I never had a problem.

[Assistant] That's great. A lot of your social activities were with folks that you worked with as well?

[User] Yes. I remember one Christmas Johnny and I had the Christmas party and New Year's Eve party at our house. I had more energy in those days. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Especially for the clean-up. [Laughter]

[User] Yes, and making the food.

[Assistant] We didn't have stores that provided all that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I remember one Christmas Johnny and I had the Christmas party and New Year's Eve party at our house. I had more energy in those days. [Laughter]

[Assistant] Especially for the clean-up. [Laughter]

[User] Yes, and making the food.

[Assistant] We didn't have stores that provided all that.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Pre-packaged food for you to put out on a table. Everything was done by hand.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and making the food.

[Assistant] We didn't have stores that provided all that.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Pre-packaged food for you to put out on a table. Everything was done by hand.

[User] Thank goodness for Sam's. Of course, you see the same food at all the parties. I'm not embarrassed to say I use their meatballs and all. It is easier.

[Assistant] I've always heard people praise Fred Astaire for all his accomplishments, but I've always heard the other part, that Ginger Rogers did everything backwards and in high heels. So after spending the afternoon with you, that's what it reminds me of. You've had such great accomplishments, yet you were always accomplishing more challenges and looking for more opportunities. So we certainly thank you for your time today.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Pre-packaged food for you to put out on a table. Everything was done by hand.

[User] Thank goodness for Sam's. Of course, you see the same food at all the parties. I'm not embarrassed to say I use their meatballs and all. It is easier.

[Assistant] I've always heard people praise Fred Astaire for all his accomplishments, but I've always heard the other part, that Ginger Rogers did everything backwards and in high heels. So after spending the afternoon with you, that's what it reminds me of. You've had such great accomplishments, yet you were always accomplishing more challenges and looking for more opportunities. So we certainly thank you for your time today.

[User] Oh, I've enjoyed this. Thank you for letting me do all the talking.

[Assistant] And you did very well at it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two, three hours. It wasn’t bad. They were not huge, challenging EVAs that way. It went through at least two orbits, so you had day and night, but they had lights, there were lights mounted along them, so they could turn them on and do their thing, even in the dark. Sometimes, they noticed it was colder, the suits were earlier, so it was a little bit colder. They were Apollo suits, basically. In Apollo, you were always in daylight on the Moon, so you didn’t notice that as much. They were good to handle warm; they weren’t so much at heating you up; you had to do the heating, they were good at pumping your heat away.

[Assistant] Pretty amazing.

[User] Yes. Anything else we can do in here?

[Assistant] No, I don’t think so. It’s up to you because you know it better than I do.

[User] Any questions on here. Sometimes I don’t want to bore you with too much stuff.

[Assistant] No, it’s not, ever.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Correct. That’s a fundamental tenet of the way NASA does their Chief Engineer function at JSC. We’re independently funded. We actually come from the institutional side. I’m EA [organization code for Engineering]-badged if you will, Engineering-badged. As opposed to GA [organization code for Orion]-badged. I’m not badged to the Program. The Program Manager is my customer, not strictly my boss, which also makes for a [more] pleasant life.

[Assistant] Every time I see you in the Office I think that you are affiliated and part of that. I did not realize that. That’s an interesting distinction.

[User] One of their fundamental tenets under their technical authority is that I’m supposed to be independently funded.

[Assistant] Is that because of the risks associated with engineering and issues of safety?

[User] They never really used to call it tech authority, that came out of Columbia. I think it’s really just more to keep a balance. The Program Manager worries about cost and schedule. Of course our program managers worry about technical as well. When you look at the Program Manager you think about them balancing cost and schedule with risk. They want them to have an independent adviser who’s really not dependent on that Program Manager for their performance award, not dependent on that Program Manager for their feedback as to how well they did. I think of it more of as an adviser and a peer as opposed to an employee. It’s easier for me to say no in some ways to a Program Manager than it is for a direct report. That’s why they do it, I think.

[Assistant] That’s fascinating. This isn’t a question that we’ve asked everyone, but I am definitely curious about it. We were talking with Mark [S.] Geyer this morning, and we’ve talked with Carol [L.] Webber. It seems like Mike [Michael D.] Griffin, who was the Administrator early on when CEV was being designed, was very heavily involved in its design and the architecture of Constellation. I’m wondering as an engineer what you and the other engineers thought about his involvement and his inclusion in the design process itself.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, in terms of providing a lot of the write up that went into Frank Culbertson's report and so forth. Since the emphasis was on safety, we had to do a lot of that. We had to provide a big formal briefing or I had to do that to the Stafford Committee, and I also had to brief Fred Gregory and the HEDS (Human Exploration and Development of Space) Assurance Group, which is a bigger panel, too. Frank Culbertson had to provide a briefing, too, but I was there to support him and I had a major briefing, and really going through what our safety process was and so forth. At that time we were in the process of developing this criteria, so I went through that we had developed this criteria and what we were doing to assess it against that criteria and all of that.

[Assistant] Do any other names stand out along with your own initiative?

[User] I think Goldin himself made the final decisions in that. Fred Gregory at NASA Headquarters was heavily involved. My boss particularly got involved in this safety John Casper was involved. Each one of the working groups Bob Peercy. The people supported me very heavily in putting together these presentations. Linda Gavin from Frank Culbertson's office pulled together a lot of the work and was interfacing with the IG's office. George Nield and Jim Van Laak, a lot of people in his office were heavily involved in that. Let's see if there was any I think that's probably all that comes to mind, at least offhand.

[Assistant] It seems like a lot of people made the effort.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Can you tell me a little bit more about what you see as this whole program in itself benefiting Space Station, and then, in a general perspective, just the Earth and people, other nations in general?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, okay.

[Assistant] And we'll go from there.

[User] Well, I was in school, in undergraduate school at the University of California in Northridge, and I heard about the Peace Corps. In fact, I saw the TV program that President Kennedy gave the speech, you know, about.

[Assistant] The inaugural?

[User] The inaugural, well, the speech. Yes. That was the inaugural. When he said.

[Assistant] Ask not, right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The inaugural, well, the speech. Yes. That was the inaugural. When he said.

[Assistant] Ask not, right.

[User] What you can do for your country.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I teared up and thought, yes, that's what I really want to do.

[Assistant] Okay. What was, what had you been studying at Northridge?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] What you can do for your country.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I teared up and thought, yes, that's what I really want to do.

[Assistant] Okay. What was, what had you been studying at Northridge?

[User] Oh, psychology. That was my major for a two year, I mean, four year degree.

[Assistant] And when were you due to get your degree?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I teared up and thought, yes, that's what I really want to do.

[Assistant] Okay. What was, what had you been studying at Northridge?

[User] Oh, psychology. That was my major for a two year, I mean, four year degree.

[Assistant] And when were you due to get your degree?

[User] In 1960. Let's see. '62 I got the degree.

[Assistant] June of '62.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, psychology. That was my major for a two year, I mean, four year degree.

[Assistant] And when were you due to get your degree?

[User] In 1960. Let's see. '62 I got the degree.

[Assistant] June of '62.

[User] June, uh huh. And went in, by the November I went to training.

[Assistant] Okay. Where had you grown up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] June, uh huh. And went in, by the November I went to training.

[Assistant] Okay. Where had you grown up?

[User] Mostly in California, in Los Angeles, around the San Fernando Valley. That's where my, I grew up. And, you know, from teenage years through.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And high school.

[Assistant] Through high school and college, had you done any kind of international travel or service work or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mostly in California, in Los Angeles, around the San Fernando Valley. That's where my, I grew up. And, you know, from teenage years through.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And high school.

[Assistant] Through high school and college, had you done any kind of international travel or service work or?

[User] No service work. But I had a good friend that was bilingual from birth because his parents were from Mexico. And we went to elementary school together and grew up together. And he's still a good friend, and he was bilingual. And so at age 18, after high school, I went to visit him in, in Mexico. And that was my first out of country experience.

[Assistant] And was it a reasonably affluent family or modest?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And high school.

[Assistant] Through high school and college, had you done any kind of international travel or service work or?

[User] No service work. But I had a good friend that was bilingual from birth because his parents were from Mexico. And we went to elementary school together and grew up together. And he's still a good friend, and he was bilingual. And so at age 18, after high school, I went to visit him in, in Mexico. And that was my first out of country experience.

[Assistant] And was it a reasonably affluent family or modest?

[User] I'd say middle class family in Chihuahua, Mexico.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And did you try to speak Spanish while you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No service work. But I had a good friend that was bilingual from birth because his parents were from Mexico. And we went to elementary school together and grew up together. And he's still a good friend, and he was bilingual. And so at age 18, after high school, I went to visit him in, in Mexico. And that was my first out of country experience.

[Assistant] And was it a reasonably affluent family or modest?

[User] I'd say middle class family in Chihuahua, Mexico.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And did you try to speak Spanish while you were there?

[User] Oh, yes. I had been learning Spanish in high school due to this Edward, Eduardo, he knew Spanish, you know, perfectly. And I thought, why don't I? So I really tried. And he was my mentor and my ideal of, you know, to learn a second language.

[Assistant] And you actually did. You were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'd say middle class family in Chihuahua, Mexico.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And did you try to speak Spanish while you were there?

[User] Oh, yes. I had been learning Spanish in high school due to this Edward, Eduardo, he knew Spanish, you know, perfectly. And I thought, why don't I? So I really tried. And he was my mentor and my ideal of, you know, to learn a second language.

[Assistant] And you actually did. You were?

[User] I was getting to be fluent. I mean, I was starting to understand very rapidly and, you know, and talk back rapidly.

[Assistant] And how long did you stay in Chihuahua? Was it just a?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. I had been learning Spanish in high school due to this Edward, Eduardo, he knew Spanish, you know, perfectly. And I thought, why don't I? So I really tried. And he was my mentor and my ideal of, you know, to learn a second language.

[Assistant] And you actually did. You were?

[User] I was getting to be fluent. I mean, I was starting to understand very rapidly and, you know, and talk back rapidly.

[Assistant] And how long did you stay in Chihuahua? Was it just a?

[User] Just a summer, I think it was less than a month.

[Assistant] Okay. And then finished high school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just a summer, I think it was less than a month.

[Assistant] Okay. And then finished high school?

[User] And that was after I had finished high school.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And then after that I did just some traveling for family reasons to Chicago, and moved my aunt and uncle back to Los Angeles and so on. But then I started college after that.

[Assistant] Okay, so you were actually in your fourth year of college when Kennedy became president?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that was after I had finished high school.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] And then after that I did just some traveling for family reasons to Chicago, and moved my aunt and uncle back to Los Angeles and so on. But then I started college after that.

[Assistant] Okay, so you were actually in your fourth year of college when Kennedy became president?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And, uh, you said you mentioned that you remembered the inaugural address.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then after that I did just some traveling for family reasons to Chicago, and moved my aunt and uncle back to Los Angeles and so on. But then I started college after that.

[Assistant] Okay, so you were actually in your fourth year of college when Kennedy became president?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And, uh, you said you mentioned that you remembered the inaugural address.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] At that point, what did you do, I mean, during that fourth year of college?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] At that point, what did you do, I mean, during that fourth year of college?

[User] Well, as you know, Vietnam was heating up at the time, and I was draftable and had signed up for the draft and had been given a, you know, that I could be drafted. So I had also, as well as applying to the Peace Corps, applied to the Air Force. And I wanted to get in graduate or not graduate school, but a program, a four year program for officers training in Langley, Texas, I think it was. And so those two applications were being processed during this time when I was a senior in college.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I didn't know which would come first, I really didn't. But fortunately, the Peace Corps sent me a telegram and said respond with a telegram within three days if you would accept going to the Philippines, the Philippine project. And I had to scramble to look up where the Philippines was.

[Assistant] Uh huh, okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you know, what the languages were and everything.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I took the full three days to decide between the two, because there were advantages of being in the Air Force, you know.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So it came up that the Peace Corps had the most advantages to me personally, because I just thought that would be the ideal situation to be in.

[Assistant] Do you remember filling out the application and taking the entrance exam? There was a long.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I took the full three days to decide between the two, because there were advantages of being in the Air Force, you know.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So it came up that the Peace Corps had the most advantages to me personally, because I just thought that would be the ideal situation to be in.

[Assistant] Do you remember filling out the application and taking the entrance exam? There was a long.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] At that time, did you indicate any preference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I said South America or a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And when they said, you know, say yes or no to the Philippines. I thought, oh, that's a Spanish speaking country, from what I could read in the encyclopedia.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] But of course it wasn't. But officially a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Maybe Peace Corps didn't know either.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And when they said, you know, say yes or no to the Philippines. I thought, oh, that's a Spanish speaking country, from what I could read in the encyclopedia.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] But of course it wasn't. But officially a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Maybe Peace Corps didn't know either.

[User] Maybe by then. No. Not that early.

[Assistant] So you had indicated, obviously, South America.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But of course it wasn't. But officially a Spanish speaking country.

[Assistant] Maybe Peace Corps didn't know either.

[User] Maybe by then. No. Not that early.

[Assistant] So you had indicated, obviously, South America.

[User] I assumed it would be South America because I had some Spanish background.

[Assistant] Okay. Telegram came. This must have been what, in June?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe by then. No. Not that early.

[Assistant] So you had indicated, obviously, South America.

[User] I assumed it would be South America because I had some Spanish background.

[Assistant] Okay. Telegram came. This must have been what, in June?

[User] Oh, it was later in the summer, I think. I don't exactly remember. Later in the summer.

[Assistant] So you had graduated and you were just sort of waiting for an answer from either of these two?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I assumed it would be South America because I had some Spanish background.

[Assistant] Okay. Telegram came. This must have been what, in June?

[User] Oh, it was later in the summer, I think. I don't exactly remember. Later in the summer.

[Assistant] So you had graduated and you were just sort of waiting for an answer from either of these two?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Had your draft board given you a, we're going to get you by such and such a date or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it hadn't come to that. And I was in the San Fernando Valley, which had a very large pool of young men.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] At that time. And so my number hadn't come up and probably didn't come up, I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I don't think it did, because I heard that they drafted from Peace Corps in service, from men in the service already in country. They had drafted somebody in an earlier group in the Philippines.

[Assistant] That was rare, very rare. Most boards accepted Peace Corps service at least as a deferment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At that time. And so my number hadn't come up and probably didn't come up, I don't know.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I don't think it did, because I heard that they drafted from Peace Corps in service, from men in the service already in country. They had drafted somebody in an earlier group in the Philippines.

[Assistant] That was rare, very rare. Most boards accepted Peace Corps service at least as a deferment.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] So what was your reaction, your family's reaction, your friends when?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, they thought this was something really good and they thought it would be a good thing to do. My parents, especially my mother, didn't cater to the Air Force very much. She didn't like military.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And she thought it would be better to do a civilian kind of job.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Even though it was a couple of years.

[Assistant] Did your friends think you were crazy or were they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And she thought it would be better to do a civilian kind of job.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Even though it was a couple of years.

[Assistant] Did your friends think you were crazy or were they?

[User] Oh, I really never knew completely. They, they, you know, wished me well, I, there was never a big, oh, you're doing the right thing. It wasn't that kind of thing. It's more like, oh, you're going to do that, huh? Well, good luck.

[Assistant] And you were pretty much convinced it was a good choice?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Even though it was a couple of years.

[Assistant] Did your friends think you were crazy or were they?

[User] Oh, I really never knew completely. They, they, you know, wished me well, I, there was never a big, oh, you're doing the right thing. It wasn't that kind of thing. It's more like, oh, you're going to do that, huh? Well, good luck.

[Assistant] And you were pretty much convinced it was a good choice?

[User] Yes, I was convinced.

[Assistant] Yeah, because everyone in California is crazy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I really never knew completely. They, they, you know, wished me well, I, there was never a big, oh, you're doing the right thing. It wasn't that kind of thing. It's more like, oh, you're going to do that, huh? Well, good luck.

[Assistant] And you were pretty much convinced it was a good choice?

[User] Yes, I was convinced.

[Assistant] Yeah, because everyone in California is crazy.

[User] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Sorry about that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I was convinced.

[Assistant] Yeah, because everyone in California is crazy.

[User] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Sorry about that.

[User] And my friends were among them. The craziest.

[Assistant] And so on, fairly short notice, you were ready to move.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Sorry about that.

[User] And my friends were among them. The craziest.

[Assistant] And so on, fairly short notice, you were ready to move.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You got the telegram and how, how soon after did you have to report?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And my friends were among them. The craziest.

[Assistant] And so on, fairly short notice, you were ready to move.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You got the telegram and how, how soon after did you have to report?

[User] I had to, it was late November I think that we started training in Hilo, Hawaii. So it must have been, you know, October or something that we all met, gathered in San Francisco and had some training meetings, you know, some preliminary meetings and told about deselection and all that. And you're not Peace Corps volunteers yet until you go through the training. That was a big, everybody was on edge about that. And then we, they flew us to Hilo or to Honolulu and then Hilo, and we stayed there for, I guess, two full months.

[Assistant] How big a group was it, do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was winnowed down to about, I think, what was it, 80 something. I think there was 40 percent deselection.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And self deselection too.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was, it was winnowed out quite, pretty well.

[Assistant] And can you describe the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And self deselection too.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was, it was winnowed out quite, pretty well.

[Assistant] And can you describe the training?

[User] We stayed in.

[Assistant] Well, let's go, I'm sorry, let's go back. You, you had a few days in San Francisco. The group gathered. You then, was it a charter flight to Hawaii?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was, it was winnowed out quite, pretty well.

[Assistant] And can you describe the training?

[User] We stayed in.

[Assistant] Well, let's go, I'm sorry, let's go back. You, you had a few days in San Francisco. The group gathered. You then, was it a charter flight to Hawaii?

[User] Uh, probably, I don't really remember.

[Assistant] Do you recall your reaction to the others in the group? You know, you had committed to doing this. You had some sense of, you know, it's what Kennedy had described and you felt you were doing it. Do you do you recall the others?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, probably, I don't really remember.

[Assistant] Do you recall your reaction to the others in the group? You know, you had committed to doing this. You had some sense of, you know, it's what Kennedy had described and you felt you were doing it. Do you do you recall the others?

[User] Well, we were mostly 20 and 22 year olds and 23 year olds. So I just felt within a group that I could very much identify with because we were all very enthusiastic, idealistic, all with some background in college, most of us college graduates.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I felt, you know, that there was no negativity. We were all just on edge to, to complete the service and do a good job of it and try to get in.

[Assistant] And from the get-go, the, the staff had made it clear that training was a selection process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we were mostly 20 and 22 year olds and 23 year olds. So I just felt within a group that I could very much identify with because we were all very enthusiastic, idealistic, all with some background in college, most of us college graduates.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I felt, you know, that there was no negativity. We were all just on edge to, to complete the service and do a good job of it and try to get in.

[Assistant] And from the get-go, the, the staff had made it clear that training was a selection process?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Which created a certain amount of tension.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I felt, you know, that there was no negativity. We were all just on edge to, to complete the service and do a good job of it and try to get in.

[Assistant] And from the get-go, the, the staff had made it clear that training was a selection process?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Which created a certain amount of tension.

[User] Yes. And I understood that they were also just learning how to do the training. I mean, I got the feeling that they were trying to get experts from various fields over there and they didn't know exactly what, you know, how to do it precisely. But they were working on setting up a scheduling and a, the right way to do it.

[Assistant] So what were the components of training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Which created a certain amount of tension.

[User] Yes. And I understood that they were also just learning how to do the training. I mean, I got the feeling that they were trying to get experts from various fields over there and they didn't know exactly what, you know, how to do it precisely. But they were working on setting up a scheduling and a, the right way to do it.

[Assistant] So what were the components of training?

[User] There was WEOG. I remember WEOG. I don't remember exactly what it stood for. Something about learning to be a good volunteer. It turned out to be just how to be a good volunteer. There were many area studies. I remember that distinctly. We had language from the first day, language studies with native Filipino teachers, and they had already divided us into language groups, and they knew that some people were going to the northern part of the archipelago of the Philippines, and some were going to the middle or the southern.

[Assistant] Okay. And what's the three? Are there three different languages?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was WEOG. I remember WEOG. I don't remember exactly what it stood for. Something about learning to be a good volunteer. It turned out to be just how to be a good volunteer. There were many area studies. I remember that distinctly. We had language from the first day, language studies with native Filipino teachers, and they had already divided us into language groups, and they knew that some people were going to the northern part of the archipelago of the Philippines, and some were going to the middle or the southern.

[Assistant] Okay. And what's the three? Are there three different languages?

[User] Oh, there were 70 something dialects.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And we, but we were divided into two major dialect regions, the Ilocano in the north and the Cebuano, or what was it called? It was another name, Hiligaynon, I think, for the southern part. [phone rings, tape break]

[Assistant] Are both of those dialects of Tagalog, is that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we, but we were divided into two major dialect regions, the Ilocano in the north and the Cebuano, or what was it called? It was another name, Hiligaynon, I think, for the southern part. [phone rings, tape break]

[Assistant] Are both of those dialects of Tagalog, is that?

[User] Well, in a way, they're Malayan tongues. Malayan.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Dialects, actually of Malayan, and Tagalog is sort of, well, the, became the most, the richest one and the one that most people learned because they had to in school. They learned their native dialect, they called it, and then Tagalog and then English also. So kids in elementary school learn three languages.

[Assistant] What was the official language of the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Dialects, actually of Malayan, and Tagalog is sort of, well, the, became the most, the richest one and the one that most people learned because they had to in school. They learned their native dialect, they called it, and then Tagalog and then English also. So kids in elementary school learn three languages.

[Assistant] What was the official language of the country?

[User] Tagalog. They call it Filipino.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] That was the official language. But the unofficial lingua franca was English.

[Assistant] How was the language training structured?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Tagalog. They call it Filipino.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] That was the official language. But the unofficial lingua franca was English.

[Assistant] How was the language training structured?

[User] In our training? Well, they had, as I said, native speakers come and at dinner time we had to eat in our dialect. You know, we had to try to talk while we were sitting there eating and not talking much at all. And then during the each day we had at least an hour. I don't remember the exact scheduling, but maybe an hour each day of intensive training in that language and sort of an immersion kind of program. The, usually they were, I think they were all women who were the teachers, and they would just sit there and talk to us and we would have, we would memorize dialogs that they passed out.

[Assistant] So they create situations about going to the store and you'd.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was the official language. But the unofficial lingua franca was English.

[Assistant] How was the language training structured?

[User] In our training? Well, they had, as I said, native speakers come and at dinner time we had to eat in our dialect. You know, we had to try to talk while we were sitting there eating and not talking much at all. And then during the each day we had at least an hour. I don't remember the exact scheduling, but maybe an hour each day of intensive training in that language and sort of an immersion kind of program. The, usually they were, I think they were all women who were the teachers, and they would just sit there and talk to us and we would have, we would memorize dialogs that they passed out.

[Assistant] So they create situations about going to the store and you'd.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Memorize the dialog. Did you also have a chance to work in the language lab where you, you would speak and have it then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Memorize the dialog. Did you also have a chance to work in the language lab where you, you would speak and have it then?

[User] No, they didn't have a language lab at all.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] They just had regular teachers.

[Assistant] Where, where, where in Hilo was this going on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they didn't have a language lab at all.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] They just had regular teachers.

[Assistant] Where, where, where in Hilo was this going on?

[User] Oh, about I'd say five miles or 5 to 10 miles from the downtown section of Hilo, up sort of on a hillside next to, um, a very famous waterfall in that area that's called Rainbow Falls.

[Assistant] What was the institution that was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a, it had been a hospital. And the dormitories for us were in the nurses quarters, which were dormitories formerly for the nurses.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I had a room right overlooking the falls. I could hear it all night. Sometimes it kept me awake.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was a very beautiful campus, you might say.

[Assistant] And so it was just a building and then the entire staff was imported to, to work there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had a room right overlooking the falls. I could hear it all night. Sometimes it kept me awake.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was a very beautiful campus, you might say.

[Assistant] And so it was just a building and then the entire staff was imported to, to work there?

[User] Mm hmm. And I think there were several buildings, a main hospital building and several smaller buildings and then the dormitories, as I said. So it was really set up to be a hospital. And our training were in rooms, you know, they were possibly operating rooms or whatever. They looked like laboratories or large theaters of, you know, hospitals.

[Assistant] Was there a, there was a training staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a very beautiful campus, you might say.

[Assistant] And so it was just a building and then the entire staff was imported to, to work there?

[User] Mm hmm. And I think there were several buildings, a main hospital building and several smaller buildings and then the dormitories, as I said. So it was really set up to be a hospital. And our training were in rooms, you know, they were possibly operating rooms or whatever. They looked like laboratories or large theaters of, you know, hospitals.

[Assistant] Was there a, there was a training staff?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there a permanent training staff that was with you the whole time or did people just come?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there a permanent training staff that was with you the whole time or did people just come?

[User] Yes, there was a core staff that was always there, especially the psychologists. They watched us every minute and we thought they had, they had, you know, audio visual things all over the place to watch us, but they really didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then they had invited staff from various, you know, all over the United States or other universities to tell about specific problems, about communism, for one thing. You know, about don't talk about communism. You know, that was a big thing that they stressed, and don't get into arguments with people. Just say you're here to do this job and whatever and pass it off that way.

[Assistant] And you also did American Studies, where you studied about the structure of the United States Constitution and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, there was a core staff that was always there, especially the psychologists. They watched us every minute and we thought they had, they had, you know, audio visual things all over the place to watch us, but they really didn't.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then they had invited staff from various, you know, all over the United States or other universities to tell about specific problems, about communism, for one thing. You know, about don't talk about communism. You know, that was a big thing that they stressed, and don't get into arguments with people. Just say you're here to do this job and whatever and pass it off that way.

[Assistant] And you also did American Studies, where you studied about the structure of the United States Constitution and?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You don't recall specifically any of the speakers that or faculty who did that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then they had invited staff from various, you know, all over the United States or other universities to tell about specific problems, about communism, for one thing. You know, about don't talk about communism. You know, that was a big thing that they stressed, and don't get into arguments with people. Just say you're here to do this job and whatever and pass it off that way.

[Assistant] And you also did American Studies, where you studied about the structure of the United States Constitution and?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You don't recall specifically any of the speakers that or faculty who did that?

[User] I have a lot of material that I could look up right now, but I don't recall out of my, just off of my head any names. Mr. Stalker is one of the top people, but I don't remember any specific speakers who came there.

[Assistant] So did you have a sense, were you being tested at all about whether you were learning about communism, American institutions, and so forth?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have a lot of material that I could look up right now, but I don't recall out of my, just off of my head any names. Mr. Stalker is one of the top people, but I don't remember any specific speakers who came there.

[Assistant] So did you have a sense, were you being tested at all about whether you were learning about communism, American institutions, and so forth?

[User] It seems that, not formal tests that I remember, but we had a periodic evaluations and it wasn't about subject matter. It was more about 1-to-1 interviews about how we were getting along and how you get along with other people. And then we had ratings within the group, say within one study group, if we were divided into several groups so they could schedule during the day, and so maybe 30 people would be in one room and that was considered a group, and they would ask everybody in the group to rate each person in the group on a, on a list, a checkoff sort of.

[Assistant] Sociogram.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] But you knew that that was part of selection?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It seems that, not formal tests that I remember, but we had a periodic evaluations and it wasn't about subject matter. It was more about 1-to-1 interviews about how we were getting along and how you get along with other people. And then we had ratings within the group, say within one study group, if we were divided into several groups so they could schedule during the day, and so maybe 30 people would be in one room and that was considered a group, and they would ask everybody in the group to rate each person in the group on a, on a list, a checkoff sort of.

[Assistant] Sociogram.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] But you knew that that was part of selection?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there any resistance to that sort of thing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] But you knew that that was part of selection?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there any resistance to that sort of thing?

[User] Lots of resistance to that. I remember groups refusing and striking. They wouldn't evaluate each other. They would rather have themselves evaluated, but not each other.

[Assistant] Were you in such a group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Was there any resistance to that sort of thing?

[User] Lots of resistance to that. I remember groups refusing and striking. They wouldn't evaluate each other. They would rather have themselves evaluated, but not each other.

[Assistant] Were you in such a group?

[User] Yes. And I felt the same way.

[Assistant] Were you threatened? I mean, did they say you can't do that? I mean, or did they simply?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Lots of resistance to that. I remember groups refusing and striking. They wouldn't evaluate each other. They would rather have themselves evaluated, but not each other.

[Assistant] Were you in such a group?

[User] Yes. And I felt the same way.

[Assistant] Were you threatened? I mean, did they say you can't do that? I mean, or did they simply?

[User] Well, I think maybe a few people did it, and from that they got some data. But not everybody turned in those papers. We would throw them away. We were a pretty independent group. And even then, even risking our own, you know, the psychologists were watching us and even risking that, we said no, we don't want to interview or to rate other people.

[Assistant] What was the source of your independence? I mean, why do you think you were independent?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And I felt the same way.

[Assistant] Were you threatened? I mean, did they say you can't do that? I mean, or did they simply?

[User] Well, I think maybe a few people did it, and from that they got some data. But not everybody turned in those papers. We would throw them away. We were a pretty independent group. And even then, even risking our own, you know, the psychologists were watching us and even risking that, we said no, we don't want to interview or to rate other people.

[Assistant] What was the source of your independence? I mean, why do you think you were independent?

[User]
Well, because, um, we had all been college graduates and learned, had learned to evaluate things and not be forced into things. I think that was the main thing.

Was the group or the subgroup sort of developing its own esprit and?

Only in reaction to that kind of thing. But as far as socially, we were all one group. We felt a strong, you know, oneness as a group.

[Assistant] Was there anything at all like technical studies saying that when you get to the Philippines, this is the job you're going to be doing, and we're going to try to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, would you repeat that again, the first part?

[Assistant] Technical training.

[User] Oh, the technical. Yes. I would say rate that as very good because we were just college graduates, you know, liberal arts people who had never taught, most of us.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they said, you are now going to be teacher's aides, and you're going to be learning how to teach English as a second language and science, and you're going to be teaching Filipino teachers how to do that same thing. So they were very intense about that. And we even had to go to local schools and teach adults, Japanese Americans or Japanese immigrants, to speak English. And that was a big part of it. Every evening, about 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon, we would go to a school and the teachers would cooperate. The regular teachers in those schools cooperated with us to have us come in and teach for 20 minutes or something, and we had to plan lessons based on the, the daily lessons that we had, you know, in the, in the school.

[Assistant] So someone, I mean, was defining a, the probable role for you when you got to the Philippines?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they said, you are now going to be teacher's aides, and you're going to be learning how to teach English as a second language and science, and you're going to be teaching Filipino teachers how to do that same thing. So they were very intense about that. And we even had to go to local schools and teach adults, Japanese Americans or Japanese immigrants, to speak English. And that was a big part of it. Every evening, about 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon, we would go to a school and the teachers would cooperate. The regular teachers in those schools cooperated with us to have us come in and teach for 20 minutes or something, and we had to plan lessons based on the, the daily lessons that we had, you know, in the, in the school.

[Assistant] So someone, I mean, was defining a, the probable role for you when you got to the Philippines?

[User] Yes. And we had the name teachers aides, or I'm sorry, educational aides is what we were.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] There was a running joke about that. What are we supposed to be doing being education aides? We didn't know exactly what that meant.

[Assistant] Right. Did, um, did anyone come out from Washington during training? Do you recall any visitors?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remember Jay Rockefeller running and walking and hiking with us.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] He was a young man at that time, about 20, in his 20s, I think. And, uh, I don't specifically remember none of the, you know, top level people. We didn't have Kennedy. We didn't have Shriver. We didn't have any of the top people. There may have been some, a couple people from Washington who lectured about communism. I have a feeling, that's in the back of my mind.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Somebody from Washington was there one day to lecture to the entire group about, you know, politics.

[Assistant] Yeah. Were, uh, what was the physical ed program? How was it structured?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And most, about 18 of them made it to the very top because they had been very athletic in college.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Most of the group didn't make it all the way to the very top, you know, lacking several hundred yards only. But there was no air.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So we just dropped.

[Assistant] How high up is it, do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Most of the group didn't make it all the way to the very top, you know, lacking several hundred yards only. But there was no air.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So we just dropped.

[Assistant] How high up is it, do you remember?

[User] I think it's 14,000 something. Yeah, it's very high.

[Assistant] So selection was clearly a big thing. Were there different points in during the training? How long was the training program altogether?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it's 14,000 something. Yeah, it's very high.

[Assistant] So selection was clearly a big thing. Were there different points in during the training? How long was the training program altogether?

[User] Two months.

[Assistant] Eight weeks?

[User] Eight weeks.

[Assistant] Uh, did, was there a mid selection process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two months.

[Assistant] Eight weeks?

[User] Eight weeks.

[Assistant] Uh, did, was there a mid selection process?

[User] Yes, a mid point deselection.

[Assistant] How was that handled, do you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Eight weeks.

[Assistant] Uh, did, was there a mid selection process?

[User] Yes, a mid point deselection.

[Assistant] How was that handled, do you recall?

[User] Well.

[Assistant] Did they take people out and shoot them or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, a mid point deselection.

[Assistant] How was that handled, do you recall?

[User] Well.

[Assistant] Did they take people out and shoot them or?

[User] They took them out and tied them to poles. No. They gave us little pieces of paper that each person received a paper that was folded and had a number of a room, like a little office room number. There were several offices down the hallways. And I was to report to room two, for instance. And then the person in there said, you have not been deselected and you're going to continue on. But people who went down the hall to room number 13, they were told individually that they would be deselected and they would have to pack up and leave. And that was very difficult.

[Assistant] When was this, on a Friday? Do you remember or, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well.

[Assistant] Did they take people out and shoot them or?

[User] They took them out and tied them to poles. No. They gave us little pieces of paper that each person received a paper that was folded and had a number of a room, like a little office room number. There were several offices down the hallways. And I was to report to room two, for instance. And then the person in there said, you have not been deselected and you're going to continue on. But people who went down the hall to room number 13, they were told individually that they would be deselected and they would have to pack up and leave. And that was very difficult.

[Assistant] When was this, on a Friday? Do you remember or, I mean?

[User] I don't remember what day of the week, but I really don't. Probably, could be a Friday.

[Assistant] Do you remember the impact on the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember what day of the week, but I really don't. Probably, could be a Friday.

[Assistant] Do you remember the impact on the group?

[User] Oh, very tremendous impact because we were, as I said, you know, a strong, one group that we're all going to make it.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then when someone that you had gotten to know and eaten with and been in classes with and hiked on mountains with suddenly had to leave, it was quite stressful for everybody. There was a lot of tears.

[Assistant] Any protest, any protests?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then when someone that you had gotten to know and eaten with and been in classes with and hiked on mountains with suddenly had to leave, it was quite stressful for everybody. There was a lot of tears.

[Assistant] Any protest, any protests?

[User] Um, not directly that I remember to the administration, but there were, you know, lots of, lots of questioning. Why? How come? Why would that be? She was fine. He always answered the right questions. He was a good guy.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But they never really understood. And I still have that in my mind. I don't understand why a girl from California was deselected. She seemed just perfect.

[Assistant] Your group was also early enough that they were doing FBI background checks on you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, not directly that I remember to the administration, but there were, you know, lots of, lots of questioning. Why? How come? Why would that be? She was fine. He always answered the right questions. He was a good guy.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But they never really understood. And I still have that in my mind. I don't understand why a girl from California was deselected. She seemed just perfect.

[Assistant] Your group was also early enough that they were doing FBI background checks on you.

[User] Oh, yes. I heard from family and neighbors even that they came down the street and talked to several neighbors around my parents' home.

[Assistant] Okay. Um. So the midpoint of training, it was kind of traumatic. But in some ways, since you were a survivor, you could, you could deal with it. Did anyone ever at the beginning of training, midpoint, try to articulate the standards by which you were being judged?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I believe they did. They, they mentioned sociograms, and they mentioned that there were several levels of, you know, evaluation, our psychological abilities to, you know, to be in a foreign country, you know, that there's been so much done about that, you know, in, in university studies that they pretty, they were pretty well aware of who could possibly stand culture shock and who couldn't. And we were evaluated, I'm sure, on, you know, knowing what they taught us. But I don't remember being tested directly about that.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] But I think that would show up in in other ways. There was a large amount of trying to get us into smaller groups and interacting with the person who was lecturing and, you know, getting our ideas or what, what we would say in this situation, even some role playing, I remember. And, you know, individuals taken out of the group and sat in the front and grilled in front of us, you know, in a mock kind of thing, you know, what would you say to this kind of thing? And there was a lot of talk about communism. And I just remember that, you know, what would you say in this situation if somebody had came up with you, to you and said something when. That actually happened to me on a bus in the Philippines near Manila.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] Two students were behind me while my roommate and I were on a bus and the two students behind us were Filipinos, and they started sort of heckling us and saying, how come you're here? You're a Peace Corps. What does that Peace Corps mean? What do you mean? What are you doing here? What are you really doing? So we had to sort of calm it down because we could see it was getting pretty tense, and they were ready to either push us off the bus or start a fight or whatever. So we just sort of modulated that down.

[Assistant] So once you got in the field, you realized that there was some value, although at the time it may have seemed awkward. I mean, role playing is not a.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I think that would show up in in other ways. There was a large amount of trying to get us into smaller groups and interacting with the person who was lecturing and, you know, getting our ideas or what, what we would say in this situation, even some role playing, I remember. And, you know, individuals taken out of the group and sat in the front and grilled in front of us, you know, in a mock kind of thing, you know, what would you say to this kind of thing? And there was a lot of talk about communism. And I just remember that, you know, what would you say in this situation if somebody had came up with you, to you and said something when. That actually happened to me on a bus in the Philippines near Manila.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] Two students were behind me while my roommate and I were on a bus and the two students behind us were Filipinos, and they started sort of heckling us and saying, how come you're here? You're a Peace Corps. What does that Peace Corps mean? What do you mean? What are you doing here? What are you really doing? So we had to sort of calm it down because we could see it was getting pretty tense, and they were ready to either push us off the bus or start a fight or whatever. So we just sort of modulated that down.

[Assistant] So once you got in the field, you realized that there was some value, although at the time it may have seemed awkward. I mean, role playing is not a.

[User] Right. And I thought the training was excellent to, in the face of what we faced over there.

[Assistant] Do you recall the pen and pencil psychological test that you did?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two students were behind me while my roommate and I were on a bus and the two students behind us were Filipinos, and they started sort of heckling us and saying, how come you're here? You're a Peace Corps. What does that Peace Corps mean? What do you mean? What are you doing here? What are you really doing? So we had to sort of calm it down because we could see it was getting pretty tense, and they were ready to either push us off the bus or start a fight or whatever. So we just sort of modulated that down.

[Assistant] So once you got in the field, you realized that there was some value, although at the time it may have seemed awkward. I mean, role playing is not a.

[User] Right. And I thought the training was excellent to, in the face of what we faced over there.

[Assistant] Do you recall the pen and pencil psychological test that you did?

[User] Vaguely.

[Assistant] The MMPI [Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory] was one of them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I possibly it was the MMPI.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] I think so. And then there were just check lists of, you know, this person, you know, does well under pressure. Yes or no?

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] I don't remember the names of the tests at all.

[Assistant] Were there psychiatric interviews?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think so. And then there were just check lists of, you know, this person, you know, does well under pressure. Yes or no?

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] I don't remember the names of the tests at all.

[Assistant] Were there psychiatric interviews?

[User] Yes. There were psychologists and possibly psychiatrists.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Did everyone get to see?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember the names of the tests at all.

[Assistant] Were there psychiatric interviews?

[User] Yes. There were psychologists and possibly psychiatrists.

[Assistant] Uh huh. Did everyone get to see?

[User] Yes, everyone did.

[Assistant] That must have shaken up the group, because most people at that point did not have experience of psychiatrists.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, everyone did.

[Assistant] That must have shaken up the group, because most people at that point did not have experience of psychiatrists.

[User] That's right. And that sort of eased our mind because we thought, well, these people were deselected but probably for a good reason, because there was a psychologist there testing them.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And interviewing them.

[Assistant] Yeah. Coming near the end of the eight weeks is going to be another evaluation. Did people in the second half of training, did a certain number of people simply resign, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And interviewing them.

[Assistant] Yeah. Coming near the end of the eight weeks is going to be another evaluation. Did people in the second half of training, did a certain number of people simply resign, I mean?

[User] There were several I remember, yes. Maybe, I don't remember the percentages, but I'd say at least 5 to 7 people just said, I've had it. That's it. I'm not going to continue with this.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And they left.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you remember the approximate male female split in the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were several I remember, yes. Maybe, I don't remember the percentages, but I'd say at least 5 to 7 people just said, I've had it. That's it. I'm not going to continue with this.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And they left.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you remember the approximate male female split in the group?

[User] About equal. I'd say it was about equal.

[Assistant] And there were married couples?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they left.

[Assistant] Yeah. Do you remember the approximate male female split in the group?

[User] About equal. I'd say it was about equal.

[Assistant] And there were married couples?

[User] Several married couples in our group. And at least two, two couples I remember, you know, met there and subsequently got married.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Did anyone, either Filipino or American, who was working in the project in the field, come to training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, the language teachers did. They, they were from the Philippines. So they came to Hawaii and then went back with us.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] They went back home as we were going to the Philippines.

[Assistant] But, yeah.

[User] And there were. Yes. I don't remember names or faces, but I remember one of the country reps was with us there and then went with us to the country. But he had been there before.

[Assistant] Wasn't Larry Fuchs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They went back home as we were going to the Philippines.

[Assistant] But, yeah.

[User] And there were. Yes. I don't remember names or faces, but I remember one of the country reps was with us there and then went with us to the country. But he had been there before.

[Assistant] Wasn't Larry Fuchs?

[User] Yes. It was Larry Fuchs.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I, in fact, I knew him, uh, for, when we had a camp of brotherhood that was called Camp Brotherhood for children of the, of the workers of the field hands.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And he was there to inaugurate a Kennedy statue one day.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] He and his wife. Did you know him, too?

[Assistant] Yeah, some. I'll tell you later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he was there to inaugurate a Kennedy statue one day.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] He and his wife. Did you know him, too?

[Assistant] Yeah, some. I'll tell you later.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Um, training is coming near an end. Just when you reported to training, had you been advised as to what to buy and to prepare yourself, you know, clothing and all the stuff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He and his wife. Did you know him, too?

[Assistant] Yeah, some. I'll tell you later.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Um, training is coming near an end. Just when you reported to training, had you been advised as to what to buy and to prepare yourself, you know, clothing and all the stuff?

[User] Yes. I remember a list, check list sort of thing. The things that would be recommended to take with you.

[Assistant] So the point at which you left home to go into training, that was it? I mean, you know, the next you would be back two years later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Um, training is coming near an end. Just when you reported to training, had you been advised as to what to buy and to prepare yourself, you know, clothing and all the stuff?

[User] Yes. I remember a list, check list sort of thing. The things that would be recommended to take with you.

[Assistant] So the point at which you left home to go into training, that was it? I mean, you know, the next you would be back two years later.

[User] Two years later. I assumed that would be true, and I intended to stay the two years at least.

[Assistant] And at the end of the training program, what? What happened at that point then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Hilo.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And then soon after that went to Honolulu for, they called it R&R. For about a week we had.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] R&R. And then they said, get ready to go to Manila, where we're having further in-country indoctrination or whatever they called it, in-country service information.

[Assistant] So did you go by charter?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really don't know. It seemed like we filled the plane, but I had a feeling there were other people on it too. It was a large, you know, big jumbo jet. Pan Am, I think.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And we spent overnight in Tokyo.

[Assistant] Oh, wonderful.

[User] I mean, it was a big hotel. The first time I'd ever tasted sushi and all that. And then the next morning to Manila.

[Assistant] Uh huh. How about describing your arrival?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we spent overnight in Tokyo.

[Assistant] Oh, wonderful.

[User] I mean, it was a big hotel. The first time I'd ever tasted sushi and all that. And then the next morning to Manila.

[Assistant] Uh huh. How about describing your arrival?

[User] It's vague in my mind. In Manila I don't remember too much. I just remember we.

[Assistant] Was there a ceremony at the airport, do you recall that? You got off the plane?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, it was a big hotel. The first time I'd ever tasted sushi and all that. And then the next morning to Manila.

[Assistant] Uh huh. How about describing your arrival?

[User] It's vague in my mind. In Manila I don't remember too much. I just remember we.

[Assistant] Was there a ceremony at the airport, do you recall that? You got off the plane?

[User] Not in Manila. No, I don't remember anything like that in Manila. There was further down when I got to my town. Or near my town.

[Assistant] So arrival in Manila. Now it's time for the in-country training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not in Manila. No, I don't remember anything like that in Manila. There was further down when I got to my town. Or near my town.

[Assistant] So arrival in Manila. Now it's time for the in-country training.

[User] We had training. It was just brief. I think it was about a week or so or less. We just went for daily, I think it was only mornings we had to talk about, you know, the places we were going, possibly going to, because they weren't organized well enough to find out, to know exactly where we were, each person was going. In fact, I remember distinctly at that point I didn't know if I would be alone in the place I was going to be, or with a roommate or with, you know, other people or near other people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And then finally, by the end of that week, period, whatever it was, then I was paired with another Peace Corps man. And, and then we knew.

[Assistant] During that time, were there Filipino educational officials who came and spoke to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had training. It was just brief. I think it was about a week or so or less. We just went for daily, I think it was only mornings we had to talk about, you know, the places we were going, possibly going to, because they weren't organized well enough to find out, to know exactly where we were, each person was going. In fact, I remember distinctly at that point I didn't know if I would be alone in the place I was going to be, or with a roommate or with, you know, other people or near other people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And then finally, by the end of that week, period, whatever it was, then I was paired with another Peace Corps man. And, and then we knew.

[Assistant] During that time, were there Filipino educational officials who came and spoke to you?

[User] I believe there were. I just, that whole part of it doesn't even, it's not in part of my memory.

[Assistant] Let's jump back briefly to training. Was there a final exam or a matching up of level with the language, at the end of language training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then finally, by the end of that week, period, whatever it was, then I was paired with another Peace Corps man. And, and then we knew.

[Assistant] During that time, were there Filipino educational officials who came and spoke to you?

[User] I believe there were. I just, that whole part of it doesn't even, it's not in part of my memory.

[Assistant] Let's jump back briefly to training. Was there a final exam or a matching up of level with the language, at the end of language training?

[User] Yes. That seemed to be a big thing, that the people that did well in the language, um, possibly were paired with people who weren't, who didn't do as well. I have a feeling that was true in my case, and I know of one other possible case of that. Uh, two female volunteers near, well, maybe several hours away, but on the same island, who one was strong and the other one was not. So I had a feeling that we were paired on the basis of that.

[Assistant] Were you in the upper group in language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I believe there were. I just, that whole part of it doesn't even, it's not in part of my memory.

[Assistant] Let's jump back briefly to training. Was there a final exam or a matching up of level with the language, at the end of language training?

[User] Yes. That seemed to be a big thing, that the people that did well in the language, um, possibly were paired with people who weren't, who didn't do as well. I have a feeling that was true in my case, and I know of one other possible case of that. Uh, two female volunteers near, well, maybe several hours away, but on the same island, who one was strong and the other one was not. So I had a feeling that we were paired on the basis of that.

[Assistant] Were you in the upper group in language?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. When you, during even the first week in Manila, did you have a. [tape break] First week you tried, but without great success to use the language.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. That seemed to be a big thing, that the people that did well in the language, um, possibly were paired with people who weren't, who didn't do as well. I have a feeling that was true in my case, and I know of one other possible case of that. Uh, two female volunteers near, well, maybe several hours away, but on the same island, who one was strong and the other one was not. So I had a feeling that we were paired on the basis of that.

[Assistant] Were you in the upper group in language?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. When you, during even the first week in Manila, did you have a. [tape break] First week you tried, but without great success to use the language.

[User] We talked among ourselves, the ones who were in that same language group. We, I'm sure we did a lot of practicing, but in Manila, it's such a big city that we couldn't find anybody to talk to in that, in our dialect. Our dialect.

[Assistant] Yeah. You, you met the Peace Corps staff when you got, while you were in Manila?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Yeah. When you, during even the first week in Manila, did you have a. [tape break] First week you tried, but without great success to use the language.

[User] We talked among ourselves, the ones who were in that same language group. We, I'm sure we did a lot of practicing, but in Manila, it's such a big city that we couldn't find anybody to talk to in that, in our dialect. Our dialect.

[Assistant] Yeah. You, you met the Peace Corps staff when you got, while you were in Manila?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then you received your assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We talked among ourselves, the ones who were in that same language group. We, I'm sure we did a lot of practicing, but in Manila, it's such a big city that we couldn't find anybody to talk to in that, in our dialect. Our dialect.

[Assistant] Yeah. You, you met the Peace Corps staff when you got, while you were in Manila?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then you received your assignment?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did someone take you aside and said, this is where you're going and sort of brief you on it or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then you received your assignment?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did someone take you aside and said, this is where you're going and sort of brief you on it or?

[User] Yes. I remember somebody said, you're going to the southern central. You'll be on the island of Negros in the province of Negros Oriental. And I remember that distinctly. That was quite a big emotional moment for me to know exactly where I was going.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And, uh. At, before you left Manila, it was, someone else was assigned with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did someone take you aside and said, this is where you're going and sort of brief you on it or?

[User] Yes. I remember somebody said, you're going to the southern central. You'll be on the island of Negros in the province of Negros Oriental. And I remember that distinctly. That was quite a big emotional moment for me to know exactly where I was going.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And, uh. At, before you left Manila, it was, someone else was assigned with you?

[User] Yes. There was a whole group that got on the plane to go to Cebu. It was Cebu. Yes.

[Assistant] And then tell me how you got from Manila to where you eventually ended up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I remember somebody said, you're going to the southern central. You'll be on the island of Negros in the province of Negros Oriental. And I remember that distinctly. That was quite a big emotional moment for me to know exactly where I was going.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And, uh. At, before you left Manila, it was, someone else was assigned with you?

[User] Yes. There was a whole group that got on the plane to go to Cebu. It was Cebu. Yes.

[Assistant] And then tell me how you got from Manila to where you eventually ended up.

[User] They put us on a PAL plane, Philippines Airlines, and I think there, let's see, there were two, four, six, about eight of us, I believe, who were on this plane to land in Cebu City. And then, uh, two. One got off there and the rest of us went to Dumaguete Airport and where the University of Silliman, Silliman University is. And then this small group was met by the city officials and the mayor and several people from the university. It was a very warm hearted kind of welcoming. And then within about a day or so after that, I think it was just overnight, we stayed in one of the area rep's homes and then dispersed by bus to our locales.

[Assistant] Was anyone assigned to the university?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They put us on a PAL plane, Philippines Airlines, and I think there, let's see, there were two, four, six, about eight of us, I believe, who were on this plane to land in Cebu City. And then, uh, two. One got off there and the rest of us went to Dumaguete Airport and where the University of Silliman, Silliman University is. And then this small group was met by the city officials and the mayor and several people from the university. It was a very warm hearted kind of welcoming. And then within about a day or so after that, I think it was just overnight, we stayed in one of the area rep's homes and then dispersed by bus to our locales.

[Assistant] Was anyone assigned to the university?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] We were all a rural group.

[Assistant] So this was a, uh, but that was the regional center for the, for the. And what was the town that was the regional center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] We were all a rural group.

[Assistant] So this was a, uh, but that was the regional center for the, for the. And what was the town that was the regional center?

[User] Dumaguete City, they called it.

[Assistant] Dumaguete. Okay. I want to just jump back briefly to training period. As you were doing the technical studies, you know, to being prepared to become educational aides. Was it also, were you also trained or encouraged to expect to do community development? Was that ever explicit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were all a rural group.

[Assistant] So this was a, uh, but that was the regional center for the, for the. And what was the town that was the regional center?

[User] Dumaguete City, they called it.

[Assistant] Dumaguete. Okay. I want to just jump back briefly to training period. As you were doing the technical studies, you know, to being prepared to become educational aides. Was it also, were you also trained or encouraged to expect to do community development? Was that ever explicit?

[User] No, not in our groups. We were specifically trained to be teachers, and language teachers specifically, plus some amount of science teaching because the Filipino government had requested volunteers to upgrade the teaching of second languages, especially English, and to upgrade the science curriculum that they had in their own public schools.

[Assistant] Okay. So now you're going out to the town. How did you get out there?