Input: If we think in terms of humanizing the system, i.e., helping the poor by letting poor people get rich, we should give low - and moderate - income people a chance to improve and raise the quality of their lives; the threshold for China's personal income tax should be at least tripled from the starting threshold of 800 yuan per month, i.e., to 6400 yuan per person.

China

800 yuan

6400 yuan


Input: That would take it to a minimally humanized level, and then we could really talk about " people first. "

first


Input: With a threshold below this level, the poor will always be poor.


Input: Yesterday CCTV presented a program on adjustment of the personal income tax, emphasized that the main goal of the adjustment was to " take from the rich " and let poor people get wealthy.

CCTV


Input: If we really want to give poor people a chance to get wealthy, the threshold for the personal income tax should be tripled.


Input: With anything under this threshold, the poor will have no chance to get rich.


Input: And if we're looking at it in terms of " taking from the rich, " the problem to be adjusted is definitely not whether or not to tax income but rather the problem of the actual method for distributing China's social national income, namely how to eliminate the " unreported income. "

China


Input: The income of the vast majority of China's rich people is unreported income, and unreported income is a problem that Chinese society will not be able to solve for quite a long time to come; it is a characteristic of China, an uncontrollable black hole in China's social oversight.

China

China

China

Chinese


Input: This is far from being a tax problem; it is a deeper systemic problem.


Input: If China's personal income tax can not achieve the effect of helping the poor to become rich, neither can it control the excessive incomes of the wealthy, so what is it we expect this personal income tax to do?

China


Input: It would be better to eliminate it in one fell swoop, as we did with the agricultural tax.

one


Input: Below are some of the main reasons:


Input: 1. China's income tax can not become a tool for keeping the poor perpetually poor; it can not become a social tool that keeps on producing a penniless proletariat.

China


Input: In China the primary function of the income tax is to increase the state's financial revenues; it is not to regulate the income gap.

China


Input: In 2004 China's income taxes amounted to approximately 180 billion, accounting for about 6% of the state's financial revenues.

China

approximately 180 billion

about 6%


Input: But of this 180 billion, about 65%, or 117 billion, was paid by the working class.

180 billion

117 billion

about 65%


Input: Less than 10% was paid by the wealthy.

Less than 10%


Input: In China more than 90% of the people who depend on fully declared total earnings for a living are urban poor.

China

more than 90%


Input: These poor people, who struggle just to pay for the necessities of life, their children's education, old age, illness and death, also have to pay income tax.


Input: In all of China's cities now, anyone with a monthly income of 2000 yuan or less is considered poor.

China

2000 yuan or less


Input: If a husband and wife have a total monthly work income of 2000 yuan, and if they pay 33% income tax on anything over 1500 yuan, they have a disposable income of only 1670 yuan.

2000 yuan

over 1500 yuan

1670 yuan


Input: A household like this can not even continue bearing basic living expenses, and their standard of living will decline.


Input: And should anyone in the household get sick and have to go to the hospital, the family may well find itself in an economic crisis.


Input: And if a family like this wants to buy its own home, that will basically be impossible.


Input: And if only one person in a three - person family is employed, the family will have a very difficult life.

one

three


Input: But even so, they have to pay 165 yuan in income tax.

165 yuan


Input: Clearly, if our income tax threshold is set at 1500 yuan, our society is destined always to produce a proletariat, always to deny hope to the poor or to the masses of ever getting rich.

1500 yuan


Input: Our production relations are no different from the production relations in Marx's " Das Kapital, " constantly reproducing a proletariat who can only rely on selling its labor to make a living.

Marx

Das Kapital


Input: In short, if the personal income tax threshold is set lower than 6400 yuan, it will be ineffective in helping the poor get rich.

6400 yuan


Input: Conversely, if the threshold is too low, it will cleanly and quickly inhibit the ability of poor people to get rich.


Input: 2. The personal income tax is absolutely unable to control the accumulation of wealth by the rich.


Input: We should not entertain any illusions that China's income tax can in any way regulate income distribution, much less that it can " take from the rich and give to the poor. "

China


Input: In Chinese society, 20% of the people hold 80% of social wealth, and 80% of the people are able to use only 20% of the social wealth to suffer through their lives.

Chinese


Input: In China, freedom, human rights, democracy, happiness and all the other most effective benefits that society can offer refer only to 20% of the people.

China


Input: Western countries that attack China for not having human rights, democracy and freedom are quite wrong; these 20% of upper - class citizens have broader human rights, democracy and freedom than do Western societies.

China

these 20%


Input: When God looks at China, he sees only these 20%; the other 80% he can't see clearly.

China

these 20%


Input: The income of the vast majority of these 20, of upper - class citizens in China is basically unreported income; the proportion of their income that comes from fully declared earnings is a negligible part of their wealth.

China


Input: Only if China eliminated unreported income would the income tax have an effect on rich people.

China


Input: And if China wants to eliminate unreported income, to date there is no sign of that, and there is no compelling evidence to explain when China might eliminate unreported income.

China

China


Input: Anyhow, it is not something our generation will see.


Input: That is why the income tax has no effect on regulating the wealth of China's rich people.

China


Input: It does however have a highly restrictive effect on the ability of poor people to get rich.


Input: A very simple explanation is that poor people are all wage earners who rely on fully declared wages for their living; they do not have unreported income.


Input: Fully 100% of their income falls within the income - tax field of vision, so they can't escape even if they wanted to.


Input: Add to this the fact that the threshold is under the level required to meet the necessary expenditures to maintain the basic necessities of life, and the poor are completely stymied.


Input: " Dragons give birth to dragons, phoenixes to phoenixes; the son of a bandit will live in a cave. "


Input: " The children of poor people are always poor. "


Input: With the previous 800 yuan income tax threshold, if it were strictly enforced, 80% of beggars would have to pay.

800 yuan


Input: With a threshold set below 5000 yuan, this generation of poor people need not think about buying a home or driving a car.

5000 yuan


Input: They will always be poor.


Input: Of course, many children of poor people are able to get rich, but this came about because the parents struggled harder, tightening their belts and " skimping on food and clothing " for themselves.


Input: Now how many university students who have received acceptance notifications are unable to enroll, and how many enrolled university students from the countryside have parents who are living through unimaginably hard times?


Input: In Western countries, the personal income tax is the most effective means of controlling excessively high incomes among the rich.


Input: But these are countries ruled by law, where official income is all recorded, citizen's incomes are fully transparent, and therefore the personal income tax can easily achieve the effect of regulating income distribution.


Input: The situation in China is not like that; if the personal income tax has an effect, it's to increase financial revenues, and it has absolutely no income - regulating effect.

China


Input: 3. Eliminating the income tax will benefit peasants.


Input: The vast majority of China's 900 million peasants are unable to reach the income level for paying income tax.

900 million


Input: But the peasants have contractual land, they have a low - consumption rural lifestyle and conditions, and they have basic housing.


Input: But if people in the cities don't have money, everything is a struggle.


Input: If they go shopping for food by bike, they have to pay 20 cents for parking.

20 cents


Input: They can't not pay the rent or they'll have to sleep on the street.


Input: In terms of macroeconomic law, the distribution of wealth in Chinese society is set at 2/8, with the 20% of wealthy people holding 80% of the social wealth, and the 80% of poor people holding just 20% of the social wealth.

Chinese

the 20%

the 80%


Input: The personal income tax threshold is too low, the urban population is too large, and the population participating in the 20% that goes to peasants is even greater, so the peasants ultimately have to get a reduced share of this 20%.

the 20%

this 20%


Input: If we eliminate the personal income tax, the number of poor people in the cities will be reduced, and the people participating in the peasant struggle for this 20% will be reduced, which will benefit the peasants.

this 20%


Input: In China the wealthy will always hold 80% of the social wealth; there has never been a softhearted rich person.

China


Input: 4. This will really be beneficial in establishing a soft - landing market economy system.


Input: In recent years China's rate of state financial growth has been higher than economic growth; this is a highly abnormal phenomenon, and in terms of economic theory it is highly adverse for sustained, healthy growth of the national economy.

recent years

China


Input: The blood has all been pumped out of the national economy; it's like eating up all the seeds sown in the spring.


Input: The proportion of financial revenues from the personal income tax is about 6%.

about 6%


Input: If we cancel out this 6%, we can slow down financial growth.

this 6%


Input: And in the Chinese economic cycle, excessive financial investment is not a good thing for economic growth and the establishment of a true market economy system.

Chinese


Input: Compared to market investment, the efficiency of financial investment is less than half.

less than half


Input: And when there is too much financial investment, corruption is everywhere, all the time.


Input: 5. It promotes the establishment of a harmonious society.


Input: Chinese and foreign history amply demonstrates that a harmonious society is an olive - shaped society: the distribution of numbers of poor, middle - class and wealthy people making up the society is small at either end and larger in the middle, with 40% or more of the society being middle class.

Chinese

40% or more


Input: Chinese society is 80% poor people, 20% wealthy; there is no stable middle class, or it floats between the lower levels of the wealthy and the upper end of the poor and is highly unstable.

Chinese


Input: There is no way this " 2/8 " social structure can establish a harmonious society.


Input: Eliminating the personal income tax to accumulate wealth for the people will be beneficial in producing and nourishing a middle class and will promote the creation of a harmonious society.


Input: In short, if our personal income tax policy can not help the poor get rich, and is unable to limit the excessive increase in wealth among the rich, then it is better not to have this kind of personal income tax.


Input: We need to adopt this kind of strategic insight when we consider this matter, so as to benefit the country and the people.


Input: This essay is dedicated to all the hardworking people of the world.


Input: Advice to Wu Jinglian and Others: Killing the Father -- Does You No Good!.

Wu Jinglian


Input: Posted by -LSB- Little Peng Zhongyi -RSB- at Jan 3, 2007 18:53:26 -LSB- SMS -RSB- -LSB- Tables -RSB-.

Peng Zhongyi

Jan 3, 2007


Input: Advice to Wu Jinglian and Others: Killing the Father -- Does You No Good!.

Wu Jinglian


Input: -- Some Thoughts on the Attitude of Benign Inheritance towards Social Reform.


Input: A glance at the title, people with a little political sensitivity may roughly understand the core topic of this article: the rule of benign interaction between planned economy and market economy, and between public ownership and private ownership -- because only their relationships are those between a father and a son, and it is only between them are there different conflicts involving " human relations, " " rules " and " science, " as well as bloody wrestling between classes, factions and individuals on the basis of morality and interests.


Input: Comparing planned economy and public ownership to a father is tantamount to comparing market economy and private ownership to a son, which holds water principally and historically no matter you put it this way or another.


Input: This is because the former two given " fatherhood " are indeed the most essential factors of the national character and institution of the socialist new China, while the latter two dubbed " son " in this article -- are indeed the ideological outcomes derived after the death of China's founder Comrade Mao Zedong under tremendous international and domestic political pressures on planned economy and public ownership, which grew into today's para-system after about 30 years of reform and opening up.

two

socialist

China

China

Mao Zedong

today

30 years


Input: Regarding this, the factual development process of political civilization that the Marxist ideology has been increasingly marginalized over the past 30 years or so is a strong evidence.

Marxist

the past 30 years


Input: By sorting out the essence of the above historical background and conceptual relationships, we will have a pretty thorough, comprehensive and systematic knowledge framework about the benign inevitable trends and development guidelines of the future society dependent on the rule of society, so that the associated impression captured may be more concrete.


Input: Regarding this, my standpoint is: because the socialism underpinned by planned economy, public ownership and the people's democratic dictatorship is indeed a really " fresh " systemic thing for China in the mid and late 20th century -- without a model or sufficient experience or theories to refer to, no matter how scientific its kernel is, it is hard not to have certain superficial and local problems.

China

the mid and late 20th century


Input: However, this should not provide an excuse to overthrow it by fair means or foul, as he is our father and the common choice of millions of laboring people.

millions


Input: The fact that it " finally became our national character and main system after over half a century of international and domestic political transformation " is a stronger proof that it is the milestone for a new civilization resulted from the blood and sweat of thousands of proletarian revolutionary martyrs.

half a century

thousands


Input: Therefore, no matter from the perspective of average citizens or from the standpoint of the founder of the new government, we should respect and develop her on the basis of inheritance, innovation and improvement.


Input: Is my opinion above correct?


Input: I believe you will naturally obtain a relatively fair and just conclusion if you could understand and treat the above - mentioned " father " system and " son " system with impartiality and sufficient goodwill.


Input: For example, based on the existing institutional cultural heritage in the human history, we could see: the " father " system mentioned herein has the majority in mind or it is established in the fundamental and long - term interests of the majority, as well as the need for sustainable and sound development of the country, the nation, and the overall society -- while the " son " system mentioned herein is ignorant and sick in the company of such behavioral characteristics as exploitation, fraudulence, pernicious influence and robbery.


Input: So, we can not urge the son to throttle the essentially healthy and scientific " father " system by fair mean or foul without considering the consequences, because there are problems in its practice and development -- such as state monopoly for purchases and sales, lower efficiency due to centralized management, and inhibition of the will of productivity by undue political pressure resulting from class struggles during the new deal.


Input: It is because that will not only make the society increasingly ignorant and sick as it violates the rule of benign social development, distorts normal " human relations " and the ethic and prevalent value and the rule of civilization update rooted in it, but the humanity will retrogress as people's thoughts and behaviors become increasingly ridiculous.


Input: Yes, this is the case.


Input: My opinion above is not absurd and delusive at all, because this is true not only in theory, but also to the rule of social development as demonstrated by historical facts, as well as from the perspective of the situation and reality of the country: of the current " advocates of market economy, private ownership and dictatorship of the bourgeoisie " has established and proposed a new deal " against planned economy, public ownership and dictatorship of the proletariat. "


Input: All their criticisms are directed at the developmental symptoms such as " lower efficiency due to centralized management " or " inhibition of the will of productivity by undue political pressure resulting from class struggles during the new deal, " all their proclamations are political attacks and instigation aimed to win over the less than 5% " vested interests, " and their development logic asks the " 95% " laboring people to stay where they are and willingly endure the hard work -- it speaks for itself how empty, ridiculous, sick, ignorant and anti-government it is.

less than 5%

" 95% "


Input: That's why I want to say to the world and the age by the end of the article: when the father's toes are injured, we should try our best to treat the foot problem, and open up a new life and embrace health in the principle of respecting human relations, obeying people's wishes, conforming to science and carrying on the legacy -- if the present capitalist followers frantically urge the son to kill him by all means, the result could only be a tragedy!


Input: And these happen to be the core of the destiny where the capitalist roaders " will inevitably bury themselves due to their ignorance and insanity, and more or less harm the human society! "


Input: At last, I would like to admonish sincerely and earnestly those who blindly oppose, hate and even suppress planned economy, public ownership and dictatorship of the proletariat, especially the " mainstream elite scholars " including Wu Jinglian, who insist on smearing the " father " to the end: do not treat the " fathers " on which the new civilization is based barbarously, against your conscience and frantically for immediate gains.

Wu Jinglian


Input: The result is definitely a tragedy -- because even if you kill the " father, " your felony will be disdained by the age and condemned by the people, which naturally leads to nothing good!


Input: Independent economic and human studies analyst.


Input: Brother and companion of conscientious Chinese sons and daughters: Peng Zhongyi.

Chinese

Peng Zhongyi


Input: January 2, 2007.

January 2, 2007.


Input: Contact for friendship and blame


Input: QQ: 22761792


Input: MSN: p...@hotmail.com


Input: email: youyutianshi...@sina.com


Input: Something Even More Absurd Than the " Breakneck 90 M/H On a Snowy Night " ?? My Personal Experience.

90 M/H


Input: poqi

poqi


Input: Poster: poqi -LRB- poqi -RRB-, Area: Automobile.

poqi

poqi


Input: Title: Something Even More Absurd Than the " Breakneck 90 M/H On a Snowy Night " ?? My Personal Experience.


Input: Originating site: BBS Unknown Space -LRB- Tue Jan 16 22:51:46 2007 -RRB-.

Tue Jan 16


Input: I have deep feelings and a lot of sympathy with the author after reading the article Breakneck 90 m/h on a Snowy Night.

90 m/h


Input: It also reminds me of something that I experienced several years ago, also related to an airport and meeting people.

several years ago


Input: A couple of years ago, my neighbor approached me to borrow my car, saying he was meeting his parents at the airport.

A couple of years ago


Input: He also said both his wife and children wanted to go.


Input: As his car was too small and mine was big, it could make his parents more comfortable.


Input: He added that he would only use it for one morning and would return it to me before noon.

one morning

noon


Input: Although there was only a nodding acquaintance between the neighbor and me, we lived in the same apartment building after all and were both Chinese.

Chinese


Input: So I discussed with my wife back home and lent him the car as we thought we would not be using the car until the same afternoon.

the same afternoon


Input: And then something happened ...


Input: At 1:00pm, the neighbor called me, saying he took his parents to a buffet and would probably not to be back until around 3:00pm.


Input: I of course agreed and asked them not to rush.


Input: This wait lasted till 5:30pm, when the neighbor told me in a half - crying tone that there was an accident, and everyone else was intact, except his father, who was in hospital for fractures.

half


Input: I comforted him first and asked my friend to rush me to the hospital.

first


Input: My neighbor showed me the police report at the hospital, which indicated it was all my neighbor's fault.


Input: He clashed into a truck going straight when he made a left turn.


Input: My car was completely damaged and had been towed away.


Input: I forced myself to refrain from the grief of loosing my beloved car -LRB- mine was liability - only coverage -RRB- and asked the friend to send their family home.


Input: And then the nightmare began.


Input: The next day, my neighbor called me, saying his father needed to undergo an operation in hospital and asked where the money would come from

The next day


Input: I told him part would be covered by my car insurance.


Input: After a while, he called again, saying the operation charge was high and it was difficult for them to afford


Input: I tried my best to comfort him then and told him to think of a way slowly


Input: Just then, a nearly crazy voice of a woman came from the other end of the line, saying her family had just saved several dozen thousand bucks for the down payment of a house; where would they live afterwards if they spent this.

several dozen thousand bucks


Input: She also said my car was a Japanese one, which had poor safety performance and it was my car to blame for the car accident.

Japanese


Input: She added that I should pay the money because the car was mine.


Input: I hung up the phone angrily as the dialog could not go on.


Input: My wife -LSB- pw% -RSB- had been persuading me aside, saying some women would easily lose mind once in fury.


Input: She asked me to take no heed of them and let them calm down first.

first


Input: So I didn't take their words seriously but still felt angry.


Input: Out of my expectation, a phone call on the third day completely changed my original idea.

third


Input: The telephone rang just as I was about to go to work in the morning.


Input: I thought it was a sales call and was prepared to end it perfunctorily.


Input: Unexpectedly, coming from the other end of the line was a deep and resolute voice of a middle - aged man.


Input: He said in an incontestable tone that my neighbor had a car accident as a result of borrowing my car, which traumatized them both physically and mentally and harmed their economic interests, and as the car owner, they would not sue me if I compensated them for the hospital charge and the costs of missing work hours -LRB- three times -RRB-, otherwise they would see me in court.

three


Input: He added that he was certain about the case as a lawyer in business for ten years and the compensation he requested could double in court.

ten years


Input: As a great Chinese guy, how could I be scared by a few remarks of the lawyer?

Chinese


Input: I also took up the weapon of law for justice.


Input: Of course, I also retained a lawyer.


Input: Out of my expectation, my lawyer solved the problem by merely making two phone calls.

two


Input: One was to the police station, asking for any additional findings in the investigation report of the accident.

One


Input: There was additional findings unexpectedly, which were against them.


Input: Someone at the junk yard found a bottle of unfinished wine without the lid inside the car and reported it to the police station.


Input: The police found they put the bottle of unfinished wine in the car without the lid after lunch.


Input: The second call was to their lawyer.

second


Input: So their lawyer dropped the lawsuit.


Input: Of course, they would not stop it there and came to discuss with me several times, sometimes honey - tongued and sometimes threatening.


Input: The most classic one was: Don't ever dream of living a life back to China, as we have people across the country.

China


Input: Disgusting!


Input: Here comes the old topic again, are you going to lend your car if your neighbor or friend asks.


Input: I think many people will say they won't.


Input: I would suggest not to lend online.


Input: However, the Internet is after all virtual.


Input: Words sometimes have no emotions.


Input: When your seemingly nice neighbor, seemingly close friend, or a girl whose eyes can speak asks for it in the real world, how many people will answer with a " no? "


Input: Anyhow, I was not able to do that.


Input: I lent my car to some people in need after that, and I believe there are not many people like my former neighbor couple.


Input: In conclusion, here is a summery of the loss of the two sides:.

two


Input: Our side: A 02 Camary of 50,000 miles, retaining fee 200. Annual leave two days.

Camary

50,000 miles

two


Input: Their side: One leg of the father -LRB- repaired -RRB-, hospital charge: unknown, costs for missing work hours: unknown, retaining fee: unknown.

One


Input: And most importantly: the dignity and honor of the entire family -LRB- except children -RRB-.


Input: * Source: · BBS Unknown Space http://mitbbs.com · -LSB- FROM: 129.137. -RSB-.


Input: I thank my Beijing friends and wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Beijing

New Year


Input: mikecat


Input: Poster: mikecat -LRB- mikecat -RRB-, Section: Beijing.

mikecat

mikecat

Beijing


Input: Topic: I thank my Beijing friends and wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Beijing

New Year


Input: Posting station: BBS Unnamed space station -LRB- Mon Jan 1 12:05:53 2007 -RRB-.

Mon Jan 1


Input: A month ago, I was really desperate, I lost my current job, which I was completely unprepared for, and had to find a job within a month to keep myself going.

A month ago

a month


Input: Now in this month with the Christmas holiday there's really only three weeks of actual work time, and I don't think any companies are going to be hiring people during this period.

this month

three weeks

Christmas


Input: Despair, that sinking feeling weighing on my mind, so much pressure I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep; I was simply going crazy.


Input: But I still needed to do something; getting crazy - hysteric makes no sense.


Input: Then I started connecting with my friends in America; I went to Maimaiti to ask for help, consulted about my status, and looked for a way to solve the problem.

America

Maimaiti


Input: Even my relatives' friends in America and my parents' friends all got involved.

America


Input: Friends, it's always friends who help me at key moments.


Input: Many friends got people they knew to recommend me, help me send out resumes, or call and commiserate with me.


Input: There was one friend who had just got an offer, but he didn't want to go, so he recommended me to go for him, but it was way off in LA, plus the salary wasn't ideal, but at least it could help me keep the legal status, so I thought I would take it.

one

LA


Input: After the telephone interview, I flew to LA, landing at 12:00 noon, and at 4:00 p.m..

LA

12:00 noon

4:00 p.m.


Input: I had the interview.


Input: By then 17 - 18 hours had passed since I'd gotten up at 4:00 a.m.

17 - 18 hours

4:00 a.m.


Input: Although I was too tired to walk, I still had to pump up my spirits so I'd be in peak form for the interview.


Input: The interview didn't last long, just two hours and it was over.

two hours


Input: I felt the interview went well, and started to feel confident.


Input: But on that day one senior level person wasn't there, so the next day early I had to go back to talk to him.

that day

the next day

one


Input: So the next day I got up at 7:00 and ran over to chat for an hour; that guy was nice, didn't embarrass me, so after an hour it ended happily.

an hour

an hour


Input: After that the boss took me to the home office, and on the way he gave me an oral offer, and he said it would not be easy for me to come right away, that I should do the physical exam immediately and do all the paperwork, wait until after New Year's, and the HR director would return and turn in the H1.

New Year's


Input: Then I went straight for the physical, and I filled out the application form, reference list, etc.


Input: At 3:00 p.m., the dust finally settled.

3:00 p.m.


Input: Finally before Christmas I received a Christmas present.

Christmas

Christmas


Input: Although I still haven't made the final decision to go, at least I have a guaranteed - minimum choice.


Input: So I am thanking everyone for helping me.


Input: I hope that all my friends who are still looking for work will be able to find their ideal job in the New Year.

the New Year


Input: * Source: ・ BBS Unnamed space station http://mitbbs.com ・ -LSB- FROM: 72.224. -RSB-.


Input: So I work in that same beauty salon,


Input: I'm chained to the old masquerade


Input: The lipstick, the shadow, the silicone:


Input: I follow my father's trade -


Input: Leonard Cohen

Leonard Cohen


Input: Michael Jackson may be another example of a celebrity distraction which, upon examination, reveals more about our society's mortal condition than a tabloid could imagine.

Michael Jackson


Input: Almost certainly more than it would dare to describe.


Input: Yesterday, Jackson was ordered to close Neverland for having failed to pay the ranch's 47 employees their salary or insurance since the end of 2005.

Jackson

Neverland

the end of 2005


Input: Unfortunate for the unpaid staff and the abandoned llamas but no surprise.


Input: He's moved on since his aquittal, like Gary Glitter did after his 1999 conviction, having departed last June for a Bahrain `` vacation'' from which he's yet to emerge.

Gary Glitter

last June

Bahrain


Input: -LRB-'' For the people working at Bahrain's malls, the person covered head to toe in a black veil, gloves and glasses appeared to be a rich, doting Saudi mother ....

Bahrain

Saudi


Input: But why would a woman wear a man's shoes?


Input: Why the bodyguards?


Input: And why did the person's fluid movements seem so familiar?'' -RRB-


Input: Last week's real Jackson story ran in the New York Daily News, under the snappy banner `` Creepy dad was root of all clan's woe, singer sez.''

Last week's

Jackson

the New York Daily News


Input: The singer was brother Jermaine, and the claims based on the projected outline for his abandoned `` tell - all'' family story.

Jermaine


Input: Reading that Joseph was a nightmare of a father and sexually abusive towards his daughters is not exactly a `` stop the presses'' moment.

Joseph


Input: What's new is this:


Input: Jermaine even suggested his father may have set up Michael to be somehow victimized by older men.

Jermaine

Michael


Input: He tells how his father would have Michael join in at late - night hotel room meetings with `` important business people,'' and wondered whether `` something happened'' to Michael at those sessions.

Michael

Michael


Input: He said he sensed something was wrong because Michael would be sick for days after.

Michael

days


Input: `` What was Joseph doing?'' Jermaine wrote.

Joseph

Jermaine


Input: This lifts the Jackson family horror show to a whole new order of dysfunction, one that sees parents network with power and trade their children for privilege.

Jackson


Input: This should be a motif familiar to anyone acquainted with the literature of mind control and ritual abuse survivors: the father and first controller, passing his child - victim up the social ladder of abuse in return for status, protection and reward.


Input: All that's missing is the element of occult terror.


Input: Or maybe not: `` LaToya also described being awakened in the night by Joseph wearing a' monster mask.'''

LaToya

Joseph


Input: Perhaps we can take more from this than the suspicion that the Jackson clan had gotten with the program.

Jackson


Input: Perhaps rather the point is that the program exploits pre-existing conditions for abuse which are more common than most suspect.


Input: -LRB- This is how I tend to think of Ponchatoula's Hosanna Church. -RRB-

Ponchatoula

Hosanna Church


Input: Yet we shouldn't discount the suspicion, either, particularly given some of Michael's paranormal interests and peculiar associations.

Michael


Input: His close friendship with SPECTRA contactee and channeller of the Nine, Uri Geller, for one instance.

SPECTRA

Nine

one

Uri Geller


Input: -LRB- Jackson was Geller's best man in 2001 when he and his wife renewed his vows, the same year Geller is said to have been reactivated as a psychic spy. -RRB-

Jackson

Geller

Geller

the same year


Input: His entourage including a `` personal magician'' for another.


Input: Even if you wanted to, you won't be reading Jermaine's account now.

Jermaine


Input: Like every Jackson sibling who's tried to break from Joe, he's climbed down, returned to the fold and scrapped the book, apparently on the strength of Michael's threats to sue.

Jackson

Joe

Michael


Input: Previously, Michael's given cause for family observers to attribute his grotesque body dysmorphia to a dread of resembling his father.

Michael


Input: Yet there they were at Jackson's trial last year, hand in hand.

Jackson


Input: In the big picture Michael Jackson means not very much.

Michael Jackson


Input: But his little picture may be more newsworthy than the news suggests.


Input: good stuff.


Input: having departed last June for a Bahrain `` vacation'' from which he's yet to emerge.

last June

Bahrain


Input: Actually, there have been reports for the past two days of Jackson back in California.

the past two days

Jackson

California


Input: #NAME?


Input: Wild wild stuff Jeff!

Jeff


Input: Disinformation Distraction Dis and Dat ..


Input: The netwerk is as sacred to the state as their mantra `` My way or total annihilation.''


Input: Bait and switch sets the agenda.


Input: There is no such thing as an accident.


Input: It's Saturday morning, and the papers say a moon of Saturn is spewing life - giving water .... then I see the new R.I. post is about the perrenial child Michael Jackson.

Saturday

Saturn

Michael Jackson


Input: This day is named for Saturn ...

Saturn


Input: " ... it was foretold that one day a mighty son of Saturn would in turn overthrow him,

Saturn


Input: and Saturn devoured all of his children when they were born to prevent this ...''

Saturn


Input: Apparently Saturn is also intimately connected with Satan, Masonics, and Revelation 13 - you know, the `` number of the beast'' ...

Saturn

Satan

Masonics

Revelation 13


Input: Nevermind -


Input: I need a cup of coffee ...


Input: I looked in vain for the Cheney `` A hunting we will go'' to post this out and paste but ...

Cheney


Input: And on the subject of cowardice, consider this. In a recent hunting escapade, Dick Cheney accidentally shot one of his hunting comrades.

Dick Cheney

one


Input: There may have been negligence involved, but that is up to the local district attorney to decide.


Input: But more importantly, I think, is the nature of the hunt.


Input: These were not wild birds.


Input: The birds were bred in captivity.


Input: They had spent their lives in pens, and then on hunting day, were released for the sole purpose of being killed by Dick Cheney and cohorts for pure sport as they flew into the open sky for their only moments of brief freedom.

Dick Cheney


Input: Whether you are an animal lover or not, there is something disgusting and degrading about this kind of hunt and something less than human about those who participate in it.


Input: The link `` personal majician'' is intrigueing.


Input: From Madsen via Boucher:

Madsen

Boucher


Input: Jackson's stay at the Cedars was arranged through David Kuo, George W. Bush's White House director of the Office of Faith - based Initiatives.

Jackson

David Kuo

George W. Bush's

Cedars

the Office of Faith - based Initiatives


Input: Kuo, a former CIA employee ... had been Executive Director of the Center for Effective Compassion, founded in 1995 by Arianna Huffington ...

Kuo

Arianna Huffington

CIA

the Center for Effective Compassion


Input: Kuo also previously worked for the Christian Coalition and Senator John Ashcroft.

Kuo

John Ashcroft

the Christian Coalition


Input: There's also some curious Neverland / Disneyland connections to the `` Mickey Mouse Club'' children who are now stars, including Justin Timberlake -LRB- remember the star on Janet Jackson's breast? -RRB- and Brittany Spears, Christina Aguilera ...

Neverland

Disneyland

Mickey Mouse Club

Justin Timberlake

Janet Jackson's

Brittany Spears

Christina Aguilera


Input: The piper walks into the mountain, still followed by the children, and the cave closes again ...


Input: Here is Boucher's follow up to the `` majician'' link of Jeff's.

Boucher

Jeff


Input: on the mark as always, jeff,

jeff


Input: but i thought you might cover chile's inauguration of its first woman president today instead ...

chile


Input: maybe later as the story develops?


Input: Jeff Boucher's piece mentions how victims of sexual abuse often have childlike voices, almost as if their development was' frozen' around the time of their abuse.

Jeff

Boucher


Input: Jackson seems to be of this type.

Jackson


Input: Or more perversely, fakes that he is:


Input: `` I was always saying -LSB- to Jackson -RSB- people wouldn't think I was so crazy if they saw who the hell you really are, that you sit around, and you drink and you curse and you're -LSB- expletive -RSB- funny and you have a bad mouth, and you don't have that high voice all the time'' -

Jackson


Input: Lisa Marie Presley, in an interview quoted in a WaPo article written by Tina Brown:

Lisa Marie Presley

Tina Brown

WaPo


Input: Michael Jackson's False Front?

Michael Jackson's


Input: `` David Geffen, be gone!

David Geffen


Input: Steven Spielberg, be gone!''

Steven Spielberg


Input: The witch doctor cursing Michael Jackson's enemies and blessing the tarnished King of Pop himself in a voodoo ritual in Switzerland in the summer of 2000 had promised that the 25 people on Jackson's enemies list -LRB- would soon be dead -RRB- ...

Michael Jackson's

King of Pop

Jackson

Switzerland

the summer of 2000


Input: Jackson had ordered his then business adviser, Myung - Ho Lee, a U.S. - educated Korean lawyer based in Seoul, to wire $150,000 to a bank in Mali for a voodoo chief named Baba, who then had 42 cows ritually sacrificed for the ceremony.

Jackson

Myung - Ho Lee

Baba

U.S.

Seoul

Mali

Korean


Input: Jackson had already undergone a blood bath ...

Jackson


Input: The pop star, who is said to be $240 million in debt, had paid six figures for a ritual cleansing using sheep blood to another voodoo doctor and a mysterious Egyptian woman named Samia, who came to him with a letter of greeting from a high - ranking Saudi prince, purportedly Nawaf Bin Abdulaziz Al - Saud, now the chief of intelligence of Saudi Arabia ...

$240 million

Egyptian

Saudi

Samia

Nawaf Bin Abdulaziz Al - Saud

Saudi Arabia


Input: http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/articles/050411roco03c hmm.


Input: According to that Vanity Fair article, Jacko and Uri Geller met through `` that other fellow devotee of children's charities Mohamed Fayed, the chairman of Harrods in London, who believes that the C.I.A. and Prince Philip had Princess Diana and his son, Dodi, killed.''

Vanity Fair

Harrods

C.I.A.

Jacko

Uri Geller

Mohamed Fayed

Prince Philip

Princess Diana

Dodi

London


Input: Anonymous quoted, `` Jackson's stay at the Cedars was arranged through David Kuo ...''

Jackson

David Kuo

Cedars


Input: Hold on --


Input: the Cedars is the headquarters of the Fellowship Foundation, the creepy Christianoid cult with deep political connections.

Cedars

the Fellowship Foundation

Christianoid


Input: Here's a bit of the original Madsen article that the Michael Jackson quote comes from:

Madsen

Michael Jackson


Input: In 1976, the Fellowship began looking for a permanent headquarters in Arlington.

Fellowship

Arlington


Input: It set its sights on the estate of George Mason IV, The Cedars, located at 2301 North Uhle Street.

George Mason IV

Cedars

2301 North Uhle Street


Input: Mason was one of the drafters of the Bill of Rights.

Mason

the Bill of Rights


Input: The Fellowship, also known as the International Foundation, bought the property from Charles Piluso.

Fellowship

the International Foundation

Charles Piluso


Input: Although not much is known about Piluso, the Los Angeles Times reported that Howard Hughes, the man with whom Fellowship Senator Ralph Owen Brewster once sparred, also lived there.

Piluso

Howard Hughes

Ralph Owen Brewster

the Los Angeles Times

Fellowship


Input: According to a senior Pentagon official, the Cedars had been used as a CIA safe house prior to the Fellowship's purchase of the estate.

Pentagon

CIA

Fellowship

Cedars


Input: The Fellowship paid $1.5 million for the Cedars, the money coming from Tom Phillips, the CEO of Raytheon, and Ken Olsen, the CEO of Digital Equipment Corporation.

Fellowship

Raytheon

Digital Equipment Corporation

$1.5 million

Cedars

Tom Phillips

Ken Olsen


Input: Sanford McDonnell of McDonnell Douglas Corporation was another deep - pocketed supporter of the Fellowship through Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International, an activity linked to Fellowship core member Pat Robertson.

Sanford McDonnell

Pat Robertson

McDonnell Douglas Corporation

Fellowship

Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International

Fellowship


Input: Suffer the little children, eh?


Input: If this is what power & wealth does to you, I'm damn glad I have neither.


Input: You said, `` Perhaps rather the point is that the program exploits pre-existing conditions for abuse which are more common than most suspect.''


Input: Couldn't agree more.


Input: I think that pedophilia's relative commonality is what really makes it frightening.


Input: My experience happened when I was 15.


Input: A friend of mine met this guy who was twice our age & who was more than willing to buy us all the whiskey we could drink.


Input: We were both enamored with Kerouac & Jim Morrison & meeting strange characters & this guy definitely fit the bill.

Kerouac

Jim Morrison


Input: He was muscle for a Pittsburgh madam named Tex Gill.

Pittsburgh

Tex Gill


Input: She dressed like a man & ran most of the massage parlors in Pgh.

Pgh


Input: He was into black magick & Crowley & booze & drugs & on & on.

Crowley


Input: So, one night, we're at his apartment, drunk out of our minds,

one


Input: & my buddy passes out.


Input: I continue drinking.


Input: At one point, I glance at this older guy,

one


Input: & he is staring at my buddy as a line of drool runs down the cigarette in his mouth & drips on to the floor.


Input: I think,' What the fuck?'


Input: but I'm pretty goddamn wasted


Input: & reality is having a helluva time penetrating the fog in my head.


Input: He notices that I'm kind of staring at him.


Input: He stands up, walks into the bedroom, & comes back with a porno mag.


Input: He drops it on the couch next to me.


Input: As he's sitting down, he says, `` See anything you like?''


Input: & then he shoves his hand hard into my groin .....


Input: .... & I broke his nose with my elbow.


Input: Make no mistake though, up till that point, the guy scared the shit out of me.


Input: But, lucky for me, my reaction was see red anger instead of cowering fear.


Input: After i hit him, I jumped up, ran into his kitchen & grabbed a big old butcher knife, ran back into the room & proceeded to kick my buddy into consciousness & drag his comatose ass the hell out of there.


Input: Now, for me, the interesting part happened years later.


Input: At the time, my buddy & I were selling things.


Input: My buddy had a real good supplier for these things but it was his secret.


Input: At one point, my buddy couldn't pick up the shipment so I had to go.


Input: Before I left, he had to explain to me that his supplier was none other than Freddie Feelup.


Input: I decided to go.


Input: He was now closer to 40 & just a hollow shell of his former self.


Input: Friendless, his only company being neighborhood teens looking to party.


Input: He kept one room empty except for 4 black candles in each of its corners.

one


Input: he would read curses aimed at people who pissed him off.


Input: Really pathetic.


Input: About a year later, a few of those teens took an intense dislike to Freddie & the beat him to to death.

About a year later

Freddie


Input: I can't imagine why.


Input: Can you?


Input: I apologize for continuing my ramble but ...,


Input: ... I don't know how you folks would classify pedophilia.


Input: Maybe a 30 year old man & a 15 year old boy doesn't qualify.

30 year old

15 year old


Input: I wonder about that myself, but I have to say that when I was 30, I wasn't plying 15 year old girls with booze & copping feels.


Input: I'll shut up now.


Input: Speaking of Pat Robertson -

Pat Robertson


Input: I remembered something about him being linked with Victor Bout and the UAE two - step currently going on:

Victor Bout

UAE

two


Input: Bout was Liberian dictator Charles Taylor's primary arms and diamond smuggler ...

Liberian

Charles Taylor


Input: Taylor, who is now in exile in Nigeria, was a business partner with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson ... in a Cayman Islands front company called Freedom Gold, Ltd.

Taylor

Pat Robertson

Nigeria

Cayman Islands

Christian Coalition

Freedom Gold, Ltd


Input: In fact, Freedom Gold was headquartered at Robertson's CBN offices in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Freedom Gold

CBN

Robertson

Virginia Beach

Virginia


Input: Robertson's African interests also crossed paths with Bout's in another country -- the former Zaire.

Robertson

Bout

African

the former Zaire


Input: Robertson's African Development Company used the cover of Robertson's tax - exempt `` Operation Blessing'' to ferry conflict diamonds out of civil war - ravaged Zaire -LRB- now Congo -RRB-.

Robertson

Robertson

African Development Company

Zaire

Congo


Input: One of Bout's many assets is New Millennium Air Company of Gambia.

One

Bout

New Millennium Air Company

Gambia


Input: The Director of this firm is `` Baba Jobe''.

Baba Jobe


Input: -LRB- hmmm -


Input: `` Baba'' ... -RRB-

Baba


Input: My question is, when is a victim guilty of abuse?


Input: Jackson is definitely a mind - control, SRA victim.

Jackson


Input: He's programmed.


Input: Neverland sounds like a cryptic command from MKULTRA Wizard of Oz programming.

Neverland


Input: The bizarre from black - to - white and physical transformation must be the result of biotech advances.


Input: If he does abuse' his' children, is he' guilty' as such if he is programmed?


Input: I suspect he is a brilliant cover or red - herring used as a shield by very powerful forces, responsible for God - knows - what at his now - abandoned ranch.


Input: It's very effective, as many' feel' that whilst MJ is naive he's not capable of the evil associated with pedophile activity.

MJ


Input: This may not be the case, as the public' persona' is merely an' alter' personality and he may have many other' personalities' which are dark.


Input: Then comes the question whether his programmers were programmed themselves.


Input: If so, then they are all guilty of such abuse, whilst being innocent at the same time!


Input: As most abuse is generational, the whole mind - control subject really has to be brought out in the open.


Input: The very technology and tools used on the mind which harm can then be used to heal.


Input: Brr, Pied Piper.


Input: I remember being spooked by that story as a kid.


Input: Heck of a story to tell children.


Input: Talking about strange coincidences ... I was trying to write a science fiction story a while back involving Star Gate type research.

Star Gate


Input: I was looking for a cool name for an undercover X-Files type military - occult agency.

X-Files


Input: Thought of' SPECTRE' but that seemed too James Bondish, and modified it to' SPECTRA'.


Input: Thinking rainbow - type symbology.


Input: Then I find out that' SPECTRA' is actually a name with significance in the community.

SPECTRA


Input: What the ...


Input: ... of course, I did read a lot of weird stuff in passing as a kid,


Input: it's certainly possible that I came across it and forgot.


Input: I wasn't consciously aware of it, certainly.


Input: It's the most disappointingly *cheesy* 1960s sci - fi kind of name for an astral entity to use, that's for sure.


Input: I never did write that story.


Input: Isn't Michael Jackson, and the entire Jackson clan, Jehovah's Witness?

Michael Jackson

Jackson

Jehovah's Witness


Input: There was no mention made of this in either the main post or comments ....


Input: It would seem to me that their must be some relationship between that cult organization and all the `` high weirdness'' going on ....


Input: no?


Input: .... and it is a cult.


Input: FBI finally releases report on missing children.

FBI


Input: Agency unveils surprising statistics: about one - third of lost kids are black

about one - third


Input: -- AP


Input: Since 1985 nearly 13 million children missing -LRB- those reported -RRB-.

13 million


Input: An average of 615,874 per year since 1985. 791,687 in 1995 alone.


Input: This is an extraordinary group here.


Input: I appreciate your candor and your capacity to build a knowledge base with each contributor adding to the thread that moves me in a sonambulant noiseless rush toward the truth.


Input: We are living the dieing


Input: and that is just as productive and rewarding as any other dimension of spirit that I have experienced


Input: If there is just one thing that disappoints me it is that all of the posters here prefer to be anonymous.

one


Input: It would be wise for you to `` be'' yourself.


Input: I tried to find emails for any that list a profile or website,


Input: but none `` NONE'' of you are out there.


Input: Contact me at my profile email should you care to disclose yourself.


Input: I would like to invite you to participate in FSHOD if that is not too much to ask.


Input: maybe we remain anonymous in preparation for the future.


Input: I'm surprised I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere before, as it ties in perfectly with Jeff's Bizarro Jacko Tabloid post:

Jeff

Bizarro Jacko


Input: In an interview with Blender -LRB- can't remember what issue, but Janet's on the cover -RRB-, Janet talks at length about having mulitiple personalities.

Blender

Janet

Janet


Input: I can't remember all the details, but there's Janet, the normal pop star, and among others -LRB- and perhaps the most notable in this context -RRB- one she calls `` Strawberry,'' who is geared towards explicit sexual activities.

Janet


Input: As I understand, this is a classic alters description.


Input: A Real MAN Would At Least Let A Former Board Member Be Able TO READ The Reason He Had Been Banned, But, I FORGOT I Was Dealing With A Coward!


Input: antiaristo will be disappointed, or HAS HE ALREADY BEEN BANNED, TOO ???

antiaristo


Input: A COWARD DIES A THOUSAND DEATHS. A HERO DIES BUT ONCE !!!!!!!!

THOUSAND


Input: Saint Alexander the Foolish, circa Third Millennium, a.D. Janet Jackson;

Saint Alexander the Foolish

Janet Jackson

Third Millennium


Input: `` Strawberry Bounce'' lyrics:

Strawberry Bounce


Input: Bump the beat


Input: Just watch the way I pump it


Input: The way I work it's gon na keep you cumin'


Input: Do a dance that's so sensual


Input: I'ma make you Lose Control


Input: Don't trip


Input: You know you wan na watch this


Input: I'm a pro you won't be disappointed


Input: Gon na leave you beggin' for more


Input: I'ma make you Lose Control


Input: Glad someone finally mentioned Janet.

Janet


Input: I think the practice of black magic is something she and her brother have in common.


Input: One musn't forget her now infamous superbowl `` nipple'' stunt.


Input: Rather than the ridiculous accident censors tried to make it out to be, I think it has to be recognized as a planned, purposeful piece of black magic, perpetraited literally in front of the world, on a very alchemically significant day and time


Input: -LRB- goes way beyond a' publicity stunt, doesn't it?' -RRB-


Input: A friend even suggests that during her much earlier' Rythm Nation' period, in which she dons a black uniform and uses strange, synchopated hand movements in her video dance routine, that that too, is a kind of twilight language, intended on sending a specific message, in order to have a desired effect.


Input: It's possible that jacksons have been using the occult arts for a long, long time.

jacksons


Input: I'd love to hear someone else's thoughts on this -


Input: Here's a link to just a wee bit more about Jackson and her alleged MPD -

Jackson


Input: I posted above that The Cedars, where Michael Jackson was mentioned as having stayed for a time, was the center of the Fellowship Foundation.

Cedars

Michael Jackson

the Fellowship Foundation


Input: I just ran across the Fellowship Foundation again, when looking for something to explain the anomalous situation of recently - disgraced Republican shoplifter Claude A. Allen.

the Fellowship Foundation

Republican

Claude A. Allen


Input: The quote below is from the LaRouchies -- and thus, as always, not to be considered 100% reliable --

LaRouchies


Input: but in this case it fits in so well with the ongoing discussion that I'm tentatively inclined to trust it:


Input: DeLay's career and power became at the same time a central project for all three of the shadow partners, Grover Norquist, Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed.

DeLay

Grover Norquist

Jack Abramoff

Ralph Reed

three


Input: DeLay was by no means a random point of interest.

DeLay


Input: Tom DeLay staggered into Washington as a freshman Congressman in 1984, a terrible drunk, his life dissolving.

Tom DeLay

Washington


Input: Rep. Frank Wolf -LRB- R - Va. -RRB- approached him with a road to salvation.

Frank Wolf

R

Va.


Input: He reportedly showed DeLay a videotape that made him weep.

DeLay


Input: Tom DeLay then radically changed his life, turning his soul over to higher powers.

Tom DeLay


Input: But by all reliable accounts, DeLay became a much nastier, a fearsomely un-Christian individual.

DeLay

un-Christian


Input: Frank Wolf represented an old `` black operations'' soul - robbing agency known as the Fellowship Foundation.

Frank Wolf

the Fellowship Foundation


Input: Practicing secrecy on about the same level as the National Security Agency, the Fellowship does conduct one public function --

the National Security Agency

Fellowship

one


Input: it runs the huge annual Congressional / Presidential Prayer Breakfast in Washington, with similar events managed inside the Pentagon and at other government and military sites.

Washington

Pentagon


Input: The Fellowship Foundation -LRB- earlier called International Christian Leadership and a succession of cover names -RRB- was created before World War II by the organization of the pro-Nazi Frank Buchman.

The Fellowship Foundation

International Christian Leadership

World War II

pro-Nazi

Frank Buchman


Input: Sen. H. Alexander Smith -LRB- R - N.J. -RRB-, Buchman's lieutenant who in 1940 had called for a joint world dictatorship of the United States, Britain, and Nazi Germany, brought the Fellowship into acceptance in Washington.

H. Alexander Smith

Buchman

R

Nazi

N.J.

the United States

Britain

Germany

Washington

Fellowship


Input: In the 1950s, the group was sponsored by former Nazi SS officer, Holland's Prince Bernhard, and the Dutch royal family.

Nazi

Dutch

Holland

Prince Bernhard


Input: The Fellowship runs a house near the U.S. Capitol, where Congressmen and Senators, who are members, live.

Fellowship

the U.S. Capitol


Input: For example, Sen. Sam Brownback -LRB- R - Kans. -RRB-, the delirious End - Timer, has lived in the cult's house in Washington.

Sam Brownback

R

Kans.

Washington


Input: Raytheon CEO Tom Phillips and other figures in the military - industrial complex, pay the bills.

Raytheon

Tom Phillips


Input: The Fellowship specializes in taking over the lives of potentially powerful individuals who have become somehow ruined, and promising them dominion in the world if they will play along.

Fellowship


Input: Watergate dirty - trickster Charles Colson, when he was on his way to prison and suddenly powerless, was recruited, and turned his life over to the Fellowship.

Watergate

Charles Colson

Fellowship


Input: Colson's Prison Fellowship Ministries is a subordinate unit of the cult, with its tentacles in most prisons in the United States.

Colson

Prison Fellowship Ministries

the United States


Input: After Tom DeLay was zapped, Charles Colson became DeLay's personal guru.

Tom DeLay

Charles Colson

DeLay


Input: Colson's militancy for the End - Times war on Muslims has made him a congenial companion to Jack Abramoff in their keeping of DeLay -- Abramoff has repeatedly led Tom to Israel to call for all - out war against the Arabs.

Colson

Jack Abramoff

DeLay

Abramoff

Tom

Muslims

Arabs

Israel


Input: And Christian Coalition co-founder Pat Robertson was himself a product of the Fellowship magic.

Christian Coalition

Fellowship

Pat Robertson


Input: Robertson was the good - for - nothing playboy son of Sen. A. Willis Robertson -LRB- R - Va. -RRB-, the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

Robertson

A. Willis Robertson

R

Va.

the Senate Finance Committee


Input: Pat began speaking in tongues and uttering prophecies under the guidance of Harald Bredesen, a master training agent of the Fellowship group, who had proved himself to the highest circles of British intelligence.

Pat

Harald Bredesen

Fellowship

British


Input: Pat Robertson started off as assistant pastor to Bredesen, whose intelligence partners, the Full Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship, raised the money to expand Robertson's and Bredesen's Virginia - based Christian Broadcasting Network -LRB- CBN -RRB- toward global power status.

Pat Robertson

Bredesen

Robertson

Bredesen

the Full Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship

Christian Broadcasting Network

CBN

Virginia


Input: The sentence I put in boldface is *extremely* interesting.


Input: Wasn't there a Michael Jackson video where he was envisioning himself as ruler of the world or some such?

Michael Jackson


Input: to anonymous 9:30 re cults:

anonymous 9:30


Input: `` The reason fear can arise so strongly is that you already have a very strong experience of being brainwashed and used in cultish behavior.


Input: This cult is called society and its' cult - ure' gives rise to suffering.


Input: If you look closely, everything that is associated with cult behavior can lisewise be found in society's behavior.


Input: The same means of control are used: the constant reinforcement that you are helpless without society, that you can not survive without obeying its rules and that you will go to hell if you don't obey the tenets of its religion.''


Input: -- Gangaji

Gangaji


Input: this site monitors Janet Jackson weight!

Janet Jackson


Input: Anonymous One, I recall reading somewhere that Lisa Marie was a member of L.Ron's cult.

Anonymous One

Lisa Marie

L.Ron


Input: You will notice that Michael's real troubles started after he suied Sony chief Tommy Mattola, who was heard to say `` he'll live to regret the day''.

Michael

Tommy Mattola

Sony

day


Input: Don't ever think of fucken with the evil bastards in the Music biz, later.


Input: Here's a description of that Michael Jackson item I was remembering:

Michael Jackson


Input: By the time the release of 1995's HIStory album -- a double album of greatest hits and new tracks -- approached, Michael had fully realized a new perception of himself, one that was truly larger than life.

HIStory

Michael


Input: HIStory was hyped with a four - minute teaser video.

HIStory

four

minute


Input: This extravagant production begins with a colossal army goose - stepping through a European city in crisp, tan uniforms, waving red flags and sporting red - and - black insignias.

European


Input: Military music pounds.


Input: Crowds swell at the sidelines, screaming and crying.


Input: The implication seems to be these men represent Nazis.

Nazis


Input: But then, their leader is revealed to be Michael, marching right up front.

Michael


Input: When peasant workers break free to touch Michael, they are immediately swallowed by soldiers.

Michael


Input: Suddenly, it is night, and a tarp - covered, skyscraper - sized structure looms over the poor nation as choppers spray spotlights across it.


Input: Brainwashed fans scream, salute with one arm and light candles with religious zeal.

one


Input: Signs proclaiming `` King of Pop,'' a title Michael disavowed to Oprah only two years earlier, are everywhere, emphasizing the word `` King.''

King of Pop

Michael

Oprah

two years earlier


Input: Finally, the tarp drops, and it is, of course, a gargantuan, bronze statue of Michael, fists clenched defiantly, his star insignia prominent, yet his face still somehow child - like and unthreatening.

Michael


Input: The video is a highly disturbing piece of work.


Input: His bloated sense of importance is not only chilling, it is threatening.


Input: Suddenly, Michael's perfect world of Oz / Neverland is forced to be compared with an Aryan Nation, one that substitutes children for Hitler's master race.

Michael

Hitler

Oz

Neverland

an Aryan Nation


Input: Large image of the Michael Jackson HIStory statue.

Michael Jackson

HIStory


Input: There is some sort of an emblem with a star on his shoulder, but it's at an angle and not easy to make out clearly.


Input: '' ... a haughty spirit goeth before a fall.''


Input: BTW - and off topic:


Input: Check out this superb psyop image.


Input: Jeff, I don't think even you could do better than this:

Jeff


Input: Remember who Janet shared the stage with at the Superbowl?

Janet

Superbowl


Input: Yes, you remember correctly: former Mousketeer Justin Timberlake.

Justin Timberlake


Input: Hmmm.


Input: The plot thickens.


Input: JW's and child abuse.

JW's


Input: BTW Jeff - I'd caught the Geller / Jackson connection a while back and posted on the discussion board.

Jeff

Geller

Jackson


Input: Fascinating how this all seems to be inter-related.


Input: hmmm ...


Input: in March 2003 Jackson distraction - o - mania was part of the media smokescreen that led up the Iraq war ...

March 2003

Jackson

the Iraq war


Input: and now Fox news and other rabid - right media outlets have once again taken to whipping on Jackson ...

Fox news

Jackson


Input: -LRB- like any sane people really care about what the hell MJ is doing any more. -RRB-

MJ


Input: A signs of another impending misadventure in the mideast?

mideast


Input: And what's with Uri Geller's links to MJ?

Uri Geller's

MJ


Input: Anyone else smell a whiff of that whole Prophet Yahweh sideshow from awhile back? trivial, but here's stargods' comprehensive analysis of jacko:

Prophet Yahweh

stargods

jacko


Input: regarding the JW reference.

JW


Input: I don't think we need see a plot in every wood pile.


Input: The JW considers itself THE kingdom of God on earth.

JW


Input: -LRB-' Kindom Hall' -RRB-


Input: So it is only to be expected that they do not see a reason to run to and report everything to the government.


Input: The same goes for the Roman Catholic Church.

the Roman Catholic Church


Input: But the RCC has had a widespread problem with this regard, doubltlessly because their policy / doctrine of a celibate priesthood simply attracts these deviants.

RCC


Input: I doubt any such problem exist on the same proportionate scale in the JW heirarchy.

JW


Input: Besides that, can't you see the embedded mind control in that article, as well as all general media output.


Input: The Message Is: `` Big Brother must be informed!


Input: Only Big Brother can manage society!''


Input: See, it's the Hegelian dialectic at work.


Input: Eveyone needs to sharpen their awareness of this shit.


Input: As long as Big Brother is the answer for everything, Big Brother will BE everything.


Input: -LRB- If people don't want their kids pederastized, but yet they entrust them to' guys in gowns' I just wonder what the hell are they thinking anyway? -RRB-


Input: I'd watch the Peter Pan speculations, unless you know what versions you are discussing and can differentiate between them accurately.

Peter Pan


Input: Some of the assumptions I've seen -LRB- such as a couple made by Tim Boucher and Fantastic Planet in last year's postings linked here -RRB- may have looked like they worked to support their thesis, but in actuality have either a tenuous or no connection to the core Peter Pan mythos.

Tim Boucher

Peter Pan

Fantastic Planet


Input: Don't make up things like Peter abducting children that you can't substantiate.

Peter


Input: Peter Pan was a work in progress for JM Barrie, who kept tinkering with it over the years.

Peter Pan

JM Barrie


Input: To understand what it actually means to Michael Jackson and what you might speculate he is enacting, you have to know where on the continuum of Peter Pans his internalized Peter -LRB- no, not THAT kind of peter -RRB- lies.

Michael Jackson

Peter Pans

Peter


Input: Novel, play?


Input: Musical, cartoon?


Input: Shadow of a shadow of a remembered story?


Input: In one of the oldest versions, Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens -LRB- extracted from The Little White Bird -RRB-, is only a week old.

Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens

The Little White Bird

week old


Input: He escaped from his home when he was seven days old because he remembered how he could fly when he was a bird before he was a human,

seven days old


Input: and that wildness is still in him, as it is with all children.


Input: Barrie's only cryptic instructions on character development to Nina Boucicault, the first actress to play Peter, was that she was to remember that Peter is a bird, and is one day old.

Barrie

Nina Boucicault

Peter

Peter

one day old


Input: In Kensington Gardens he watches out for children who have fallen un-noticed out of their perambulators.

Kensington Gardens


Input: If a bad fairy finds them, or they perish from the cold an dark overnight in the park, Peter digs them graves and makes them headstones.

Peter


Input: In Peter and Wendy, the Lost Boys are the ones who fall out of their perambulators when their nurse is not looking.

Peter and Wendy


Input: If they are not claimed in seven days, `` they are sent far away to the Neverland to defray expenses.''

seven days

Neverland


Input: A far cry from the stealing of children.


Input: Peter and the Lost Boys crave a mother to tell them stories.

Peter


Input: It's ironic that while their own lives are far more exotic than the fairy tales Wendy tells, it's those fictions that they want, told by a mother.

Wendy


Input: Barrie says quite explicitly in Peter and Wendy that it is Wendy who does the tempting to keep Peter with her, not the other way around.

Barrie

Wendy

Peter

Peter and Wendy


Input: It is she who asks if Michael and John could come too.

Michael

John


Input: If those of you with the abduction theory would like to give specific quotes and information on where it is shown that Peter abducted the children, please do.

Peter


Input: But I think you are making it up from a version that doesn't exist in reality, or that can't be tied to Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson


Input: We don't gain better understanding of the inner workings of Michael Jackson by distorting the material on which we purportedly base our theories.

Michael Jackson


Input: Jeff - I just have to say that I love the Rigorous Intuition Live365 channel.

Jeff


Input: I've been listening to it to the last couple of days and just bought Dylan's' Oh Mercy'.

Dylan

Oh Mercy


Input: How does the copyright thing work on a Live365 stream?


Input: Avalon, can you recommend a good work of commentary and analysis on JM Barrie's works?

Avalon

JM Barrie's


Input: - Sepka the Space Weasel

- Sepka the Space Weasel


Input: Was Michael Jackson influenced by Bob Fosse's `` Snake in the grass'' character from the 1974 movie The Little Prince?

Michael Jackson

Bob Fosse's

The Little Prince


Input: Has anyone else seen this scene?


Input: Bob Fosse's snake looks and moves would be imitated -LRB- and made more popular -RRB- years later by the King of Pop, Michael Jackson.

Bob Fosse's

the King of Pop

Michael Jackson

years later


Input: View the video here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8mJsgPj1iU


Input: About the JW thing, I work with a couple of them -LRB- BTW, some of the most respectable people I know.

JW


Input: Which is why I decided to ask ... -RRB-,


Input: and I had a chance to ask them about MJ and the child abuse, if they knew anything.

MJ


Input: About MJ they said, he is definately not a JW, despite what he says.

MJ

JW


Input: Provocative lyrics and grabbing ones crotch in public, doesn't fit with their defination of' Christian'.

Christian


Input: They said all they knew was that his mother -LRB- who apparently is still a member -RRB- took him to their church as a kid.


Input: The father apparently had little or no involvement at all.


Input: As for the child abuse, I have to agree with the post above, you can find abuse and' sick' individuals in ANY organization,


Input: but you have too look at the proportion to the rest of society.


Input: One of my friends is an' elder' -LRB- soething like a' local church leader' -RRB-,

One


Input: but he also said their instructions say that if they hear of any abuse they are to follow local laws, which usually requires them to inform the police ASAP.


Input: And if the abuse is at all serious to report it to the police regardless.


Input: Though i don't agree with all of their beliefs, I know these guys well enough to call them friends.


Input: So in their respect, after reading some of the other comments, I decided to listen to their side before passing judgement.


Input: We should ALL be careful not to pass judgement on ENTIRE groups of people based on the apparent actions of a few.


Input: That is what Hitler tried to do.

Hitler


Input: With thiking like that, even if we got rid of the evil elite, a new set of' evil elite' would rise again in their place.


Input: That seems to be the nature of man, though.


Input: We have all got to do what we can without needlessly attacking the innocent.


Input: Remember, group hatred only plays into their hands, be it racial, religious, or class.


Input: Sepka, the two reference books I have on Peter Pan are: Fifty Years of Peter Pan, Roger Lancelyn Green, pub. by Peter Davies, London, 1954.

Sepka

Peter Pan

Roger Lancelyn Green

two

Fifty Years of Peter Pan

Peter Davies

London


Input: It's pretty scarce at this point, though you might be able to find a copy to read through inter-library loan.


Input: The Peter Pan Chronicles, Bruce K. Hanson, Birch Lane Press, NY, 1993

The Peter Pan Chronicles

Bruce K. Hanson

Birch Lane Press

NY


Input: I haven't really delved into Barrie's psyche from the biographical end, it's Peter and Wendy as an extraordinary piece of writing that has always fascinated me.

Barrie

Peter and Wendy


Input: ... and if you listen to `` My Way'' by sinatra, backwards, the real answer will be revealed.

My Way

sinatra


Input: Uri Geller was one of MJ's handlers apparently.

Uri Geller

MJ

one


Input: The hot dialogue ... that went on between -LSB- -LSB- -LSB- Saddam Hussein and Rumsfeld -RSB- -RSB- -RSB- at the airport prison.

Saddam Hussein

Rumsfeld


Input: Collaborator

Collaborator


Input: Details of the minutes of the meeting between Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein at the Airport Prison ...

Rumsfeld

Saddam Hussein

the Airport Prison


Input: Washington offers Saddam a television appearance to stop the Resistance in return for his freedom.

Washington

Resistance

Saddam


Input: Baghdad - INA - from Aras An Nasiri

Baghdad

Aras An Nasiri


Input: Minutes of the dialogue between Saddam and Rumsfeld from trusted American sources.

Saddam

Rumsfeld

American


Input: What follows is the text of the minutes


Input: At the start of the conversation President Saddam appeared extremely calm.

Saddam


Input: Perhaps he was surprised that his guest was Rumsfeld, but he did not appear at all nervously tense.

Rumsfeld


Input: Rumsfeld began the conversation by saying Rumsfeld: I came to meet you to negotiate the situation in Iraq; we have made contact with some of your followers inside and outside Iraq, they have advised us to listen to you.

Rumsfeld

Rumsfeld

Iraq

Iraq


Input: Saddam Hussein: So what do you want?

Saddam Hussein


Input: Your forces have occupied the territory of the proud Iraq, you have brought down the governing regime without a legal support,

Iraq


Input: you have assaulted the sovereignty of an independent free sovereign country,


Input: you have committed crimes which history will record against you as evidence of your blood - stained civilization.


Input: So what do you want after all that?


Input: Rumsfeld -LRB- trying to suppress his anger -RRB-: What's past is past, I came especially to make you a clear and specific offer and I want to hear from you a clear and definite answer.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein -LRB- mockingly -RRB-: I thought you had come to apologize and restore power to the Iraqis.

Saddam Hussein

Iraqis


Input: Rumsfeld: We have nothing to apologize for, you constituted a danger to your neighbors and tried to acquire weapons of mass destruction and practiced dictatorship over your people and so it was only natural that we extended our hand to the people of Iraq to rid them of the perils which had confronted them for more than three decades.

Rumsfeld

Iraq

more


Input: Saddam Hussein: I know that you are ignorant of history, and I know that your president is no less ignorant but it seems that you have continued to lie to the extent that you now believe yourselves.

Saddam Hussein


Input: If " by our neighbors " you mean the Zionist Entity then we did indeed form a danger, we were preparing to liberate our ravished territory in Palestine.

the Zionist Entity

Palestine


Input: This is the wish of every Arab person and not just every Iraqi.

Arab

Iraqi


Input: For this is Arab land and its people are Arab, and the Zionists are the ones who occupied the land and came to us from all over the world with your help, yours, and that of the old imperial powers.

Arab

Arab

Zionists


Input: But if you meant Kuwait, I want to ask you.

Kuwait


Input: Did you withdraw from Kuwait or not?

Kuwait


Input: Rumsfeld: These are security issues.

Rumsfeld


Input: Besides, there are security agreements between us and Kuwait and the other Gulf states ... we came at their request to protect them from your threats.

Kuwait

Gulf


Input: Saddam Hussein: Isn't funny that the wolf is being entrusted with the sheep?

Saddam Hussein


Input: The people of Kuwait are an Arab people.

Kuwait

Arab


Input: And Kuwait is Iraqi territory, therefore I ask you to read history carefully, although I am certain that you won't comprehend it.

Kuwait

Iraqi


Input: Rumsfeld: Stop from this drivel, I am offering you ...

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein -LRB- interrupting -RRB-: Before you offer me your rotten goods, I ask you did you find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or not?

Saddam Hussein

Iraq


Input: Rumsfeld -LRB- disconcerted -RRB-: We haven't found them yet, but we will surely find them one day.

Rumsfeld

one


Input: Do you deny that you had intentions to manufacture a nuclear bomb?


Input: Saddam Hussein: We have had no weapons of mass destruction since 1991, we were truthful when we spoke with the international inspection mission, we were truthful in our letters to Kofi Annan, you knew these facts but you were looking for any pretext to occupy Iraq and topple its legitimate authority.

Saddam Hussein

Kofi Annan

Iraq


Input: Rumsfeld: The Iraqis received us with overwhelming happiness and welcomed us, because of the practices of your bloody regime over the course of all those years in which you governed Iraq.

Rumsfeld

Iraq

Iraqis

all those years


Input: Saddam Hussein: Please, Mr Rumsfeld, enough lying.

Saddam Hussein

Rumsfeld


Input: You are the ones who have opened the floodgates to cascades of blood on the soil of Iraq, you plotted against us and got some traitors to take over power over the land of the great Iraq.

Iraq

Iraq


Input: Rumsfeld: Those you are calling traitors have been chosen by the Iraqi people as their leaders by democratic means and free elections, something that did not take place during your rule over the country.

Rumsfeld

Iraqi


Input: Saddam Hussein: I found out that you had come with a troop of traitors led by Talabani -LRB- laughs mockingly -RRB-.

Saddam Hussein

Talabani


Input: Great Iraq is being ruled by Talabani and Jaafari.

Iraq

Talabani

Jaafari


Input: Isn't this ridiculous?


Input: Then, which elections are you talking about?


Input: Is it permissible for what you call free elections to be held under your occupation of our country?


Input: Mr Rumsfeld, we have learned from history that the occupier will not bring except his assistants and lackeys, and you want, after all that, to convince me that the people of Iraq enjoy freedom and democracy?

Rumsfeld

Iraq


Input: You are truly delusional.


Input: Rumsfeld -LRB- barely able to contain his anger -RRB-: You are isolated and do not know the facts of what is happening on the outside.

Rumsfeld


Input: The Iraqi people have been liberated from your oppression, if they saw you or any of your men in the street they would kill you.

Iraqi


Input: Saddam Hussein: I challenge you to announce your location in Iraq if you can.

Saddam Hussein

Iraq


Input: If the Iraqi resistance found out your whereabouts you would not be able to get out alive.

Iraqi


Input: I want to give a word of advice to your " dumb " president, you must pass it on to him, and it is that he should save what is left of his soldiers.


Input: Death surrounds them everywhere and history will not be merciful to him.


Input: Rumsfeld: I came to talk with you about the terrorist operations which your men are instigating and carrying out.

Rumsfeld


Input: Your men have recently carried out an ignoble operation aimed at the Abu Ghraib prison where they injured and killed more than fifty Americans and also killed a number of prisoners imprisoned under various charges.

Abu Ghraib

more than fifty

Americans


Input: Your men are employing terrorists from all parts of the world and they are threatening the democratic process in Iraq.

Iraq


Input: Saddam Hussein: What is it you want exactly?

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: I am making you one offer, that you are released and choose for yourself a place of exile in any country you wish on the condition that you appear on television to announce your condemnation of the terrorism and to ask your men to stop these practices.

Rumsfeld

one


Input: Saddam Hussein: Have you obtained the consent of your president to this offer?

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: Yes, this offer was agreed to at a session in which the President, his deputy, the Secretary of State and the head of the CIA took part and I was commissioned to inform you of this offer.

Rumsfeld

CIA


Input: Saddam Hussein: It is a very low price.

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld -LRB- excited -RRB-: We are prepared to include elements close to you in power.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: And what else?

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: We will offer you considerable financial assistance and will look after your and your family's security in the country you choose.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: Do you want to hear my conditions?

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: Yes, that would be nice.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein -LRB- in language beaming with pride and arrogance -RRB- I want you first of all .. to set me a timetable for the withdrawal from Iraq that your government will commit itself to it in front of the world, and for you to begin the withdrawal operation immediately.

Saddam Hussein

first

Iraq


Input: I ask, secondly, .. for the immediate release of all the Iraqi and Arab detainees in the prisons you have set up or in those where you have shackled the freedom of tens of thousands of honorable Iraqis.

secondly

Iraqi

Arab

Iraqis

tens of thousands


Input: Thirdly, I ask you .. for the undertaking that full compensation will be offered for the material losses which the Iraqi people have suffered through your aggression on our country since the Mother of All Battles in 1991 until this present day.

Thirdly

Iraqi

the Mother of All Battles

this present day


Input: I will accept the assistance of an international and Arab committee in estimating these losses.

Arab


Input: Fourthly, I ask that you produce the money which your men looted from the treasuries of Iraq and its oil especially this criminal Bremmer and his henchmen from the traitors and renegades.

Fourthly

Iraq

Bremmer


Input: And, fifthly, I ask for .. the return of the antiquities which you have stolen and handed over to the antiquities mafia, for these are priceless treasures because they bear the history of Iraq and its civilization.

fifthly

Iraq


Input: Your country is no older than a few hundred years.

a few hundred years


Input: True, you do not have neither a civilization nor history, but all that can not excuse your thefts and your hatred of Iraq's civilization and Iraq's riches.

Iraq

Iraq


Input: Sixthly, I ask that you hand me the weapons of mass destruction if you have found them, bring back to life all the martyrs you have killed, and return the integrity of the glorious Iraqi women which you have robbed.

Sixthly

Iraqi


Input: Rumsfeld: Is this some kind of joke?

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: No, this is just the bitter truth, which you know very well.

Saddam Hussein


Input: Mr Rumsfeld, you have committed the greatest crime in history against a peaceful Arab state .. we met each other in the eighties.

Rumsfeld

Arab

the eighties


Input: Do you remember your offers?


Input: Rumsfeld: Let us forget the past, we are in the process of re-evaluating our position on you and on the many forces which displayed hostility to us in the past.

Rumsfeld

the past

the past


Input: We have decided to hold a dialogue with the moderate Islamists.

Islamists


Input: We have no objection to their arrival in power via the ballot box.


Input: But more importantly, we have decided to open channels of dialogue with " terrorist " organizations such as Hamas and Jihad and Hezbollah who are loyal to Iran, and other fundamentalist organizations in the whole world.

Hamas

Jihad

Hezbollah

Iran


Input: And we even have a project to get in touch with the Taliban movement in Afghanistan to discuss its participation in power in return for disarming.

Taliban

Afghanistan


Input: Saddam Hussein: Then you have begun to re-think your mistaken methodology.

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: It is a natural development of things, we are trying to spread democracy to all countries and all autocratic movements.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: You would be successful if you would tell the truth.

Saddam Hussein


Input: I know the reality of your goals.


Input: If you were really sincere you would begin straightaway, you and your allies, to withdraw from Iraq, and you also have to back down from your position of supporting Israel.

Iraq

Israel


Input: I know that your president is stubborn and obstinate and not sincere.


Input: Rumsfeld: He is a democratically elected president and not a bloodthirsty ruler like you.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: Terrorism is your trade and deceit your method.

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: This proposal is an historic chance for you.

Rumsfeld


Input: We will release you and will consult with you in everything concerning governance issues in Iraq.

Iraq


Input: If you reject this offer then the opportunity will not be repeated.


Input: Saddam Hussein: I am not looking for opportunities, I am not looking for a way to save my neck from the gallows which you have set up for the whole of Iraq.

Saddam Hussein

Iraq


Input: If I wanted that I would have accepted the Russian offer and saved my two sons and my grandson from martyrdom.

Russian

two


Input: I do not know what the fate of my family and my daughters and grandchildren is, but be sure that I am concerned for every Iraqi citizen and the future of the Great Iraq more than I am concerned with myself and my family.

Iraqi

Iraq


Input: You have previously made me an offered before this through your men that I say the weapons of mass destruction were smuggled to Syria, and you said that the price was my release.

Syria


Input: I refused and I repeat the refusal once again.


Input: Rumsfeld: I do not want a refusal from you, I want you to think about it.

Rumsfeld


Input: We are currently re-evaluating our positions, we want to stop the bloodshed on both sides and so our offer is made from the point of strength and not from the point of weakness.


Input: We asked Jalal Talabani to make a statement in which he denies any intention to execute you as a sign of good will from us.

Jalal Talabani


Input: We are ready to review our position completely on the entire political process in Iraq and we will hold a dialogue with you and with your men on this matter.

Iraq


Input: Saddam Hussain: Are you ready to withdraw or not?

Saddam Hussain


Input: Rumsfeld: We could discuss re-deployment, our forces have prepared bases for long - term stay.

Rumsfeld


Input: We could withdraw from the streets and the towns but we will stay in the bases for a some time.


Input: Saddam Hussein: Then you want a new lackey to be added to this queue of lackeys.

Saddam Hussein


Input: No Mr. Rumsfeld .. don't forget that you are speaking with Saddam Hussein, the president of the state of Iraq.

Rumsfeld

Saddam Hussein

Iraq


Input: Rumsfeld: But you have lost power.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: I have only honor left and honor can not be sold or bought.

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: But life has a value that is priceless.

Rumsfeld


Input: Saddam Hussein: There is no value to a life without honor, and you robbed Iraq of its honor when you desecrated its land.

Saddam Hussein

Iraq


Input: We will get our honor back whether Saddam Hussein survives or becomes a martyr.

Saddam Hussein


Input: Rumsfeld: Your followers with whom we entered into a dialogue have told us that the decisions will be yours, first and last.

Rumsfeld

first

last


Input: Were they expecting your reaction?


Input: Saddam Hussein: For sure, they know that Saddam Hussain can not back down at the expense of his nation and its honor.

Saddam Hussein

Saddam Hussain


Input: Rumsfeld: History will hold you responsible for the blood which is being spilled in Iraq.

Rumsfeld

Iraq


Input: Saddam Hussein: On the contrary, history will judge you because of your crimes ..

Saddam Hussein


Input: I warned you in advance when I said to you that you will commit suicide on the walls of Baghdad, and here you are paying the price.

Baghdad


Input: I ask you to go to London and read the records of the British Foreign Office to find out some of the characteristics of the struggle of the Iraqi people against your British friends whose mistakes you are repeating and making them participate with you.

London

the British Foreign Office

Iraqi

British


Input: The Iraqi people are an obstinate people and do not fear death ... the Resistance is stronger than you imagine and therefore I predict there'll be more.

Iraqi

Resistance


Input: End of the text of the meeting minutes ... the source


Input: May your steps in doing good be like someone walking on sand ... he makes no sound but his tracks are obvious.


Input: MOTAAWEN@HOTMAIL.COM


Input: Over the sun

Over the sun


Input: Details of the minutes of the meeting between Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein at the Airport Prison.

Rumsfeld

Saddam Hussein

the Airport Prison


Input: The Amateur

The Amateur


Input: Rumsfeld: We have nothing to apologize for.

Rumsfeld


Input: You were a danger to your neighbors and tried to acquire weapons of mass destruction.


Input: And you practiced dictatorship over your people.


Input: and so it was natural that we extended our hand to the people of Iraq to rid them of the perils which had confronted them for more than three decades.

Iraq

more


Input: And did Rumsfeld free Iraq from dangers?

Rumsfeld

Iraq


Input: He is really delusional ...


Input: I have reservations about what appeared in these minutes ... because I think it unlikely that what happened at that meeting would leak out this easily ...


Input: And I do not believe that Rumsfeld would meet Saddam unless Saddam himself made signs ... the important thing is that the expression quoted above tells of a reality that can not be but accepted ...

Rumsfeld

Saddam

Saddam


Input: May God the Great forgive me.


Input: Collaborator

Collaborator


Input: My brother, Over the Sun. I apologize for repeating the article, and thank you for participating.

Over the Sun


Input: May your steps in doing good be like someone walking on sand ... he makes no sound but his tracks are obvious.


Input: MOTAAWEN@HOTMAIL.COM


Input: Cooperator

Cooperator


Input: My brother Amateur Thank you for participating.

Amateur


Input: May your steps in doing good be like someone walking on sand ... he makes no sound but his tracks are obvious.


Input: MOTAAWEN@HOTMAIL.COM


Input: Qais the Son of His Father

Qais the Son of His Father


Input: The Martyr of the Nation, God is his protector and we do not recommend anyone above God, ascended up the gallows walking straight, not with a bowed head, and he was treated to what -LRB- -LRB- the lackeys -RRB- -RRB- witnessed.

The Martyr of the Nation


Input: He disdained death and was not bothered by it, challenging the provocations of the imperialist donkeys with full self - control, repeating the words " There is no God but God and Mohammed is the messenger of God. "

Mohammed


Input: After the sentence was carried out and his body was dangling in the air, his shoes were above the heads of the scum, the imperialist donkeys, those on whose backs the people of the cross are riding and who share the trenches with them to carry out the most despicable, vile and contemptible crime the Islamic world has know in our current age.

Islamic

current age


Input: -LRB- -RRB-


Input: Exalted in life and in death **** verily, you are one of the miracles

one


Input: As if the people around you when they rose up **** delegations at your call in the days of prayer.

the days of prayer


Input: As if you are standing amongst them addressing - **** and all of them are standing to pray


Input: You extended your hands towards them in welcome **** just as you extended them towards them with gifts.


Input: When the bowels of the Earth became too tight to - **** confine your exaltedness after Death They made the air your tomb and they exchanged - **** for the shrouds the gown of the sandy winds

Earth


Input: For Your Greatness in our souls grows and is tended - **** by guards and trustworthy confidents


Input: May the Compassionate rain his blessings on you - ***** with mercies passing to and fro


Input: The Emirati

The Emirati


Input: Saddam Hussein: I have nothing left but honor and honor can not be bought and sold.

Saddam Hussein


Input: The Collaborator

The Collaborator


Input: My brother Qais, the Son of his Father, I thank you for your post and the addition, may God take care of you.

Qais, the Son of his Father


Input: May your steps in doing good be like someone walking on sand ... he makes no sound but his tracks are obvious.


Input: MOTAAWEN@HOTMAIL.COM


Input: Saddam's last days and what is said he was like

Saddam

last


Input: Bu Thari

Bu Thari


Input: What we know about Saddam Hussein in recent years is that he had changed a lot.

Saddam Hussein

recent years


Input: He had Islamic tendecies and acts which many Iraqis mentioned, saying that Saddam supported to a great extent the building of mosques centers for memorizing Koran, and charities, and the dancer's punishment was death.

Islamic

Iraqis

Saddam

Koran


Input: He had many works.


Input: But some explained his Islamic tendency by saying that he was currying favor with the Sunnis as if they were reading his mind.

Islamic

Sunnis


Input: I have followed Saddam Hussein, especially in recent years, and I noticed about him was that there was religion but there was injustice and coarseness.

Saddam Hussein

recent years


Input: And his punishment was unjust.


Input: I mean, for example, the dancer would be killed after second offence.

second


Input: I did not expect anyone to kill the dancer unless good would come of it, but like the most idiots his aim was correct but the method was wrong.


Input: Another example - after his son Udai harmed the Iraqi people and attacked women and other matters, Saddam ordered him to be killed.

Udai

Saddam

Iraqi


Input: And in fact he was fired on but survived miraculously, after being hit with several fatal shots some of which hit his spine.


Input: This is a sign that there was good in him otherwise he would not have ordered the killing of his son, his own child.


Input: But he was not a scholar nor feared in God.


Input: I myself heard from some people who were in Iraq about the things that Saddam Hussein used to do, and could not be reasonably done by anyone other than a good Moslem To the extent that many said of his actions that they were only to gain favor amongst the Sunnis and the religious.

Iraq

Saddam Hussein

Moslem

Sunnis


Input: But we judge by the appearances and his end was in line with the appearance.


Input: In his last days during the fall of Baghdad and his disappearance, an old woman or man said on TV on al - Jazeera channel that he was hiding in her house and had had his prayer mat with him and was always praying and reading the Koran.

last

Baghdad

al - Jazeera

Koran


Input: Do we say no, this is hypocrisy?


Input: Bear in mind that many have said that Saddam prayed regularly especially after he was put in prison by the Rafida and their masters.

Saddam

Rafida


Input: Some of those who said that he was always praying and reading the Koran are the Christians who visited him in his prison cell.

Koran

Christians


Input: Finally, during his hanging, the Rafida tried to distract him and keep him from saying the Creed before his death.

Rafida


Input: They were trying everything they could but we say that God made him steadfast for the whole world to see that he died acknowledging God.


Input: The Rafida were shouting provocative words such as Muqtada and al - Sadr so that he would lose control and curse them, then they would have killed him.

Rafida

Muqtada

al - Sadr


Input: So they could show the clip in which there is cursing and insults from Saddam and cut the rest.

Saddam


Input: However he remained steadfast in saying the creed and was killed whilst saying it.


Input: I believe that this couldn't have happened without God making him steadfast otherwise God would not have made him steadfast in it.


Input: As one of the sheikhs says, many people when they were supposed to say the creed and were being dictated the creed by those present would murmur " Did love see drunkards? "

one


Input: Other people say, I have not said it while I was alive and you want me to say it when I am dying ... the truth is what is apparent.


Input: But Saddam Hussein was reasonable in that he repented and turned to his creator who receives the repentance from his slave.

Saddam Hussein


Input: And he committed himself to the worship of God. And remained loyal to God.


Input: I ask God to have mercy on him and to forgive him and to give him an ample dwelling in his paradise and guide the rest of the Ba'thists.

Ba'thists


Input: The success of al - Jazeera and the failure of Hebrew, the film " The Death Squads " for downloading.

al - Jazeera

Hebrew

" The Death Squads "


Input: The Source of the Word.

The Source of the Word


Input: The al - Jazeera channel broadcasted the film " The Death Squads " with subtitles, as it was previously shown on the British Channel 4.

al - Jazeera

the British Channel 4

" The Death Squads "


Input: In this film the role of the Shiites in our beloved Iraq becomes clearer.

Shiites

Iraq


Input: The Hebrew channel, I meant the Al - Arabiya channel, did not dare, to broadcast this film or even mention it and the reasons are famously unknown ..

Hebrew

Al - Arabiya


Input: This is a unique precedent for al - Jazeera ..

al - Jazeera


Input: There are many questions, amongst them the timing of its being shown at this very time, following the conflict in interests between the Sons of Monkeys and Pigs and the Sons of Temporary Marriages ...