Input: I think I've seen one tractor /.

one


Input: I see people weak and drawn out /.


Input: they look like they need nourishment /.


Input: A lot of people are starving there /.


Input: They have human rights violations /.


Input: He is a mercurial character /.


Input: But I think he's crazy like a fox /.


Input: He is not somebody that is uh out of his mind /.


Input: he may be totally unpredictable isolated /.


Input: but he's calculating /.


Input: and he's used the Fourth of July /.

the Fourth of July


Input: every time he feels he's backed down he moves and does something irrational /.


Input: Uh he shoots missiles off /.


Input: he's done it twice /.


Input: He cancels agreements /.


Input: he gets the nuclear inspectors out in two thousand and two /.

two thousand and two


Input: This is the way he operates /.


Input: And what we should do is take advantage of his vulnerability /.


Input: He also is vulnerable in the sense that the country is weak economically /.


Input: it desperately needs an elimination of sanctions /.


Input: they need food electricity /.


Input: He's realistic too I believe /.


Input: Bill Richardson Robert Gallucci Ashton Carter thank you all for a very sobering but important discussion /.

Bill Richardson

Robert Gallucci

Ashton Carter


Input: Coming next, President Bush celebrated his sixtieth birthday this week /.

Bush

sixtieth

this week


Input: And thirty one years ago on Meet The Press then president Gerald Ford talked about being sixty and serving as president /.

thirty one years ago

sixty

Meet The Press

Gerald Ford


Input: Coming up right here on Meet The Press /.

Meet The Press


Input: And we're back /.


Input: Two presidential birthdays this week /.

Two

this week


Input: President Bush turned sixty last Thursday /.

Bush

sixty

last Thursday


Input: And this Friday former president Gerald Ford will be ninety three years old /.

this Friday

ninety three years old

Gerald Ford


Input: Our thirty - eighth president talked about age health and the presidency right here thirty one years ago /.

thirty - eighth

thirty one years ago


Input: Mr. President in the early days of the republic the American people took great chances on young men in the presidency /.

American


Input: Now here we are looking at seventy six /.

seventy six


Input: and most of the leading candidates are old geezers like me in their sixties /.

their sixties


Input: Now we seem to have misplaced a generation here somewhere /.


Input: is the system out of phase /.


Input: what explains this /?


Input: I think age is a state of mind and obviously a state of health /.


Input: I'm in the early sixties /.

the early sixties


Input: I feel as vigorous mentally and physically as I ever have at any time in my life /.


Input: I don't think you should rule a person out just because they're my particular age /.


Input: The other hand I don't think uh you should rule out a younger person who by experience or intelligence or overall capability is a potential candidate /.


Input: I don't think you should categorize people just by age bracket /.


Input: I believe you ought to look at the person how strong he is mentally and physically what is his experience and what his background is /.


Input: that's the criteria I would use /.


Input: happy birthday President Gerry Ford /.

Gerry Ford


Input: And also happy birthday to another American legend /.

American


Input: thirty eight years ago founded the special Olympics /.

thirty eight years ago

the special Olympics


Input: She turns eighty five tomorrow /.

eighty five

tomorrow


Input: And we'll be right back /.


Input: For more information on today's guest and topic log onto the viewer resources page of our website MTP dot MSNBC dot com /.

today


Input: That's all for today /.

today


Input: we'll be back next week at our regular time /.

next week


Input: If it's Sunday it's Meet the Press /.

Sunday

Meet the Press


Input: Iraq in the shadows /.

Iraq


Input: As Iraqis vote on a new constitution have the media dropped the ball on this long and bloody war /?

Iraqis


Input: Has Iraq been overshadowed by Katrina and Tom DeLay and Harriet Meyers and the Pakistan quake /?

Iraq

Pakistan

Katrina

Tom DeLay

Harriet Meyers


Input: A conversation with columnist Tom Friedman /.

Tom Friedman


Input: Was Sixty Minutes unfair to Bill Clinton in airing Louis Freeh's charges against him /?

Sixty Minutes

Bill Clinton

Louis Freeh's


Input: Former Clinton lawyer Lanny Davis in our new Talk Back to the Media segment /.

Clinton

Lanny Davis

Talk Back to the Media


Input: Plus that bogus subway terror alert /.


Input: Why didn't television slam on the brakes /?


Input: Welcome to Reliable Sources /.

Reliable Sources


Input: I'm Howard Kurtz /.

Howard Kurtz


Input: You're joining us at our new time ten AM eastern seven pacific for a full hour of media analysis every week /.

ten AM eastern

seven pacific

a full hour

every week


Input: We have some new segments we'll be adding in the coming week /.

the coming week


Input: so stay tuned /.


Input: I had a wide ranging sitdown with Pulitzer Prize winner Tom Friedman /.

Pulitzer Prize

Tom Friedman


Input: but first Judy Miller and the New York Times finally go public on the front page this morning with their nearly six thousand word account of the CIA leak investigation /.

first

Judy Miller

the New York Times

CIA

this morning

nearly six thousand


Input: In a separate first person account Miller confirmed that she told the grand jury that Scooter Libby Dick Cheney's top aide discussed with her as many as three times the role of Valerie Plame as a CIA employee /.

first

Miller

Scooter Libby

Dick Cheney's

Valerie Plame

as many as three

CIA


Input: This says the Bush administration was angry about her husband Joe Wilson's role in criticizing President Bush on whether Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction /.

Bush

Joe Wilson's

Bush

Saddam Hussein


Input: The conclusion by a team of Times reporters /.

Times


Input: The Times incurred millions of dollars in legal fees in Miss Miller's case /.

Times

millions of dollars

Miller


Input: It limited its own ability to cover aspects of one of the biggest scandals of the day /.

one

the day


Input: Even as the paper asked for the public's support it was unable to answer its questions /.


Input: Among the journalistic revelations, Miller released from jail last month says she pushed for a story on the outing of Valerie Plame back in two thousand three /.

Miller

Valerie Plame

last month

two thousand three


Input: She never wrote one /.

one


Input: but her former boss says no way /.


Input: that never happened /.


Input: And the Times was so conflicted in covering the controversy the editors killed the story about Libby and pulled their punches in other ways /.

Times

Libby


Input: And joining us now in Los Angeles Arianna Huffington the syndicated columnist and founder of the blog huffington post dot com /.

Los Angeles

Arianna Huffington


Input: in Minneapolis Lucy Dalglish executive director of the Reporters' Committee for Freedom of the Press /.

Minneapolis

Lucy Dalglish

the Reporters' Committee for Freedom of the Press


Input: and here in Washington Frank Sesno professor of public policy and communication at George Mason University and a CNN special correspondant /.

Washington

Frank Sesno

George Mason University

CNN


Input: Frank Sesno has the New York Times belatedly to be sure fought and finally made an honest accounting of its role of Judy Miller's role and the tensions that she created in the newsroom /?

Frank Sesno

Judy Miller's

the New York Times


Input: Well an honest accounting /.


Input: yeah maybe /.


Input: but not a full accounting /.


Input: You know and if the whole bottom line of this mess is that the public has the right to know and that that's what this is all about the public still doesn't know a lot of things /.


Input: There's still a lot of questions here /.


Input: Why was that waiver that Miller was apparently granted by uh Scooter Libby a year ago /-

Miller

Scooter Libby

a year ago


Input: Why did it wait until she sat in jail for all that time before she actually took up on it /?


Input: you know she's referred to in the Times' own account as Miss Run Amuck /.

Times

Miss Run Amuck


Input: She was pulled off of certain stories on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction /.

Iraq


Input: What are her motives and bottom lines to the secrecy of this whole thing /?


Input: There's a lot we still don't know /.


Input: Miss Run Amuck was a name she gave herself quite proudly apparently /.

Miss Run Amuck


Input: Arianna Huffington the Times piece a lengthy piece acknowledges that Judy Miller was a controversial figure in the newsroom whose own WMD reporting was wrong and that while she claims to have pushed for this uh story on Valerie Plame two years ago Jill Abrahamson now the paper's managing editor says No way /.

Arianna Huffington

Judy Miller

Valerie Plame

Jill Abrahamson

Times

two years ago


Input: That didn't happen /.


Input: In other words there's a dispute in the accounts /.


Input: Pretty candid stuff for a newspaper to publish about itself wouldn't you say /?


Input: Well as Frank said there are many unanswered questions /.

Frank


Input: And there are many very devastating eh comments and conclusions about Judy Miller as a journalist /.

Judy Miller


Input: I don't think the Times had any choice though Howie. Because remember as a press reporter back on July twenty - seventh the turmoil in the newsroom has been going on for months about Judy Miller and the way the paper has decided to cover the story and the way they decided to present her as a martyr for the first amendment /.

Times

Howie

Judy Miller

July twenty - seventh

months

the first amendment


Input: And the main unanswered question here is why did Arthur Sulzberger the newspaper's publisher allow Judy Miller to hijack the reporting of that story and the editorial policy on that story /.

Arthur Sulzberger

Judy Miller


Input: And the similarities for the Jayson Blair case /.

Jayson Blair


Input: Remember after the Jayson Blair scandal broke we had a seven thousand word story that did not give a full account of what happened. Especially about why is a major institution like the Times ignoring so many red flags /.

Jayson Blair

seven thousand word

Times


Input: Alright /.


Input: In the story one of things that we learn is that Bill Keller took Judy Miller off her WMD beat as one of his first personnel decisions when he took eh the reins as editor /.

one

one

Bill Keller

Judy Miller

first


Input: Alright /.


Input: Well uh I agree there are some unanswered questions /.


Input: but I'm willing to give the Times a little more credit than you for at least attempting to answer uh many of the questions /.

Times


Input: And Lucy Dalglish here's the thing that jumped out at me in the story /.

Lucy Dalglish


Input: Judy Miller acknowledges that at Louis Libby's request this is the Dick Cheney aide she agreed to refer to him and in stories not as a senior administration official but as a former Hill aide because he had once worked on Capitol Hill /.

Judy Miller

Louis Libby's

Dick Cheney

Hill

Capitol Hill


Input: Do you have a problem with that sort of thing /?


Input: I thought that was a little bit misleading /.


Input: And I thought it was odd /.


Input: I mean her justification was that well he had been a former Hill staffer /.

Hill


Input: Um but that was a strange request /.


Input: and I think the agreement was strange /.


Input: I'll agree with you on that /.


Input: Frank Sesno the Times was so hamstrung by its passionate embrace of this reporter who after all was facing jail did go to jail /.

Frank Sesno

Times


Input: One can understand the emotions uh that were unleashed here /.


Input: and yet the editors discouraged stories on the CIA leak investigation and one time killed a piece written by a reporter about Scooter Libby /.

CIA

one

Scooter Libby


Input: Was that an abdication of journalistic responsibility /?


Input: Maybe yeah maybe /.


Input: I mean what it really shows Howie I think is just how difficult it is for news organizations to report on themselves /.

Howie


Input: You know news organizations demand total transparency whether you're General Motors or United States government /.

General Motors

United States


Input: We want access /.


Input: We want explanation /.


Input: We want full disclosure /.


Input: But it's very difficult for them to do it themselves /.


Input: In this case and the Times makes it very plain in their story today they really suffered /.

Times

today


Input: They were behind on virtually every major aspect of the story /.


Input: Even when she went to jail /?


Input: Even when she went to jail and w- /.


Input: When she won release from jail /.


Input: Yeah at the point that she came out /.


Input: They didn't say that you know until she walked out /.


Input: And the question and this is a very serious question it's not answered in the article /.


Input: Were editorial higher - ups and were the corporate lawyers at the New York Times in some way leaning on suppressing and distorting the coverage from the news uh section /?

the New York Times


Input: Arianna Huffington uh in this lengthy piece this morning uh uh Judy Miller is quoted excuse me as saying that there was another source beside Scooter Libby that she dealt with on the Valerie Plame situation /.

Arianna Huffington

Judy Miller

Scooter Libby

Valerie Plame

this morning


Input: She doesn't recall who that source was looking at her notes and seeing the uh notation Valerie Flame /.

Valerie Flame


Input: She got the name wrong /.


Input: Do you buy this notion that she doesn't recall who this other source was /?


Input: No of course not Howie /.

Howie


Input: In fact I think this is the major unanswered question /.


Input: We don't know who eh her source was when it comes to revealing the identity of Valerie Plame /.

Valerie Plame


Input: And to say that she does not recall is really as convincing as having Woodward and Bernstein saying that they do not recall who Deep Throat was /.

Woodward

Bernstein

Deep Throat


Input: After all these notes were just a few weeks old when um the Valerie Plame Bob Novak column appeared and when the whole Washington and the whole journalistic community was talking about it /.

just a few weeks old

Valerie Plame

Bob Novak

Washington


Input: You know I don't /-


Input: Incidentally there was some questions uh that Judy Miller would not answer to her colleagues /.

Judy Miller


Input: and she wouldn't share her notes with them although they've been turned over to the special prosecutor /.


Input: Lucy Dalglish the big news for me was Miller recounting what her lawyer Floyd Abrams had said to her about a conversation that he had with Joe Tate who was Scooter Libby's lawyer /.

Lucy Dalglish

Miller

Floyd Abrams

Joe Tate

Scooter Libby's


Input: Uh says um Floyd Abrams according to Miller's account when I wouldn't give him Tate an assurance that you would exonerate Libby he said don't go there /.

Floyd Abrams

Miller

Tate

Libby


Input: Now Tate by the way tells the Times that that account is false and outrageous /.

Tate

Times


Input: Does this help justify eh Judy Miller's otherwise mysterious decision to go to jail and not accept the waiver of confidentiality that Scooter Libby offered and sit in jail for eighty - five days /?

Judy Miller's

Scooter Libby

eighty - five days


Input: N- you n- /.


Input: you know I've been talking to Judy off and on about this case for the last year /.

Judy

the last year


Input: This was a very difficult decision /.


Input: and you know what this all comes down to is you keep your promises when you make a promise to a confidential source /.


Input: You'll recall six or eight months ago Howie I was on the show and we were talking about you know did Russert and Kessler and all the rest of those guys did they break some trust by agreeing to testify and observing the waiver /?

six or eight months ago

Howie

Russert

Kessler


Input: What I think this situation and the turmoil that is obviously going on at the Times right now points out is the fact that we have a major problem in this country /.

Times


Input: it's that reporters believe they need to keep their promises to their sources /.


Input: Reporters will try to do whatever they can as long as the law allows them to protect those sources /.


Input: Right /.


Input: But these days um with the state of our law the fact that we do not have a federal shield law we have prosecutors and civil litigants going in there and interfering with the day to day operation of our newsrooms /.

these days


Input: and we just can tolerate this /.


Input: And we're trying to /-


Input: I think Lucy's on to something here if I can just say Howie /.

Lucy

Howie


Input: And I think this is very important because this is an ugly case /.


Input: And even people close to Judith Miller say this is not the one you'd really like to go to the mat on /.

Judith Miller

one


Input: You'd love to have a clear whistle blower case /.


Input: You'd love to have a Pentagon papers case /.

Pentagon


Input: You'd love to have something where the well - being and the sanctity of the Republic you know hangs in the balance /.

Republic


Input: She didn't even report on this /.


Input: But it does point out a very serious issue /.


Input: And that is the whole notion of the use of and abuse of confidential sources the protections that reporters do or don't have and the propensity of uh the United States government to have more secrecy not less /.

United States


Input: We've got to figure this out /.


Input: Well just to clarify uh she did ultimately uh testify about her confidential source /.


Input: The whole issue was how voluntary was the waiver of her promise to Scooter Libby offered and why was she able to accept after being in jail as opposed to before being in jail /.

Libby


Input: Well exactly /.


Input: and you know what Howie /. /.

Howie


Input: it's really time for Lucy and other Judy Miller defenders to update her talking points because what Lucy just said just simply does not wash /.

Lucy

Judy Miller

Lucy


Input: The truth is that as Howie said she did testify /.

Howie


Input: The truth is that it's very clear from the stories today that she could've asked uh Scooter Libby to call her so that she could hear the timber of his voice earlier /.

today

Scooter Libby


Input: All of that could have happened /.


Input: It did not happen because clearly Judy Miller is protecting another source that she still has not revealed to the American public /.

Judy Miller

American


Input: And the New York Times is /.

the New York Times


Input: Lucy /.

Lucy


Input: Let me get a response from Lucy Dalglish /.

Lucy Dalglish


Input: I think it's very obvious from what Judy wrote today she is protecting somebody else /.

Judy

today


Input: And one of the reasons that this negotiation took so long is that not only was she negotiating what she was going to say about Scooter Libby but you got to keep in mind I'm a lawyer there were lawyers involved in this /.

one

Scooter Libby


Input: They had to negotiate with Patrick Fitzgerald what he would not talk about /.

Patrick Fitzgerald


Input: They also had to negotiate whether or not there would be any type of um uh uh obstruction charges connected with contacting /.


Input: Once you invoke the wrath or the extreme interest of a federal prosecutor you have to be very very careful /.


Input: You don't mess with the Feds /.


Input: It's very clear in her story that she decided finally to testify because she got tired of jail because she was threatened with criminal contempt charges because she wanted to go out and now she's saying admitting finally write a book /.


Input: All these things are there in black and white /.


Input: and to continue to portray her as a martyr is not going to work /.


Input: And on that point Arianna on that point she says sh- /-

Arianna


Input: Excuse me /.


Input: Judy Miller says she's taking some time off from the paper /.

Judy Miller


Input: She wants to write a book /.


Input: She wouldn't share her notes with her colleagues who were writing the story /.


Input: Do you think she'll ever come back /?


Input: You think she's saving it for the book /?


Input: Well it's very clear that she would not be welcome in the newsroom /.


Input: And it's very clear eh as I reported again that when Bill Keller took her off her WMD beat they were all hoping she would resign /.

Bill Keller


Input: Instead she threw a fit /.


Input: but she stayed on /.


Input: This is not a journalism one oh one course the way she handled both the WMD reporting and Plame Gate /.

one oh one

Plame Gate


Input: Frank Sesno please comment /.


Input: Jump in /.


Input: And Howie I'll tell you what /.

Howie


Input: This is a gigantic shot across the bow of every manager in the news business and every editor and every executive producer anywhere because you got to have some uh control some connection with your correspondants and your reporters /.


Input: You got to know who they're talking to at some level anyway because you know what /?


Input: It's about trust with the public /.


Input: and it's about you know ending up in jail or in court /.


Input: their story says that Bill Keller and Arthur Sulzberger did not press Judy Miller about her conversations with Libby or ask to see her notes while they were defending her /.

Bill Keller

Arthur Sulzberger

Judy Miller

Libby


Input: Ask to see her /.


Input: And by the way we invited the New York Times to have an editor appear on this program /.

the New York Times


Input: The paper declined /.


Input: When we come back media speculation run amuck over possible indictments at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania and the President's scripted session with troops in Iraq /.

Pennsylvania

Iraq


Input: Stay with us /.


Input: Welcome back to Reliable Sources /.

Reliable Sources


Input: As the CIA leak investigation continued this week media folks did plenty of speculating with no evidence about the possible indictment of a certain top White House official who testified before the grand jury for the fourth time on Friday /.

CIA

White House

this week

Friday

fourth


Input: Karl Rove his closest aide the number two man in the White House the man that has been called Bush's brain /.

Karl Rove

Bush

number two

the White House


Input: If he's indicted and has to go it undermines the key source of this President's public support his character /.


Input: If Rove gets indicted that could bring down the Bush administration I think /.

Rove

Bush


Input: My understanding from talking to somebody quite close to this investigation is that they think there are going to be indictments /.


Input: and possibly Karl Rove could be among them /.

Karl Rove


Input: Lucy Dalglish if Karl Rove is indicted, if Karl Rove is indicted, what if he's not indicted /?

Lucy Dalglish

Karl Rove

Karl Rove


Input: Isn't this the worst kind of journalistic speculation /?


Input: Yeah /.


Input: You know I think it's always dangerous to speculate whether or not you're really besmirching someone's reputation. Although I'm not sure you can do that with Karl Rove /.

Karl Rove


Input: But it uh is very very you know eh irre- /-


Input: I would prefer that people keep an eye on you know watching him testify and going in and out of the courthouse /.


Input: But uh will it bring down the administration /?


Input: I don't know /.


Input: Ah eh I don't know /.


Input: Well nobody knows /.


Input: That's the point /.


Input: Arianna Huffington I used to cover the justice department /.

Arianna Huffington


Input: Not everybody who's under investigation winds up getting indicted /.


Input: Ah but you certainly and you're uh on a blog so maybe it's a different standard have speculated about Rove's fate as well /.

Rove


Input: Well not just Rove though /.

Rove


Input: what we have speculated is that it might be a much more tangled web that Fitzgerald is after the whole Iraq White House group the group that uh in Cheney's office with Libby and Rove and Mary Matalin and Condoleezza Rice and a lot of administration officials basically sold um a war to the American public based on lies /.

Fitzgerald

Cheney

Libby

Rove

Mary Matalin

Condoleezza Rice

Iraq

White House

American


Input: I mean that is really the web /.


Input: But it seems and we find out today also from uh um the reporting on the Miller story, that uh Fitzgerald is after Cheney even in some of the questioning eh of Miller /.

today

Miller

Fitzgerald

Cheney

Miller


Input: I think those were fairly routine questions about /.


Input: you have Judy Miller there /.

Judy Miller


Input: you ask about Cheney /. /.

Cheney


Input: He was being thorough /.


Input: I think we're overthinking this whole thing /.


Input: Karl Rove and this speculation business you know /.

Karl Rove


Input: Frank Sesno /.

Frank Sesno /.


Input: Pat Fitzgerald /.

Pat Fitzgerald /.


Input: It's very easy to sit here and say oh we should never speculate in journalism /.


Input: It's irresponsible journalism /.


Input: It's really how you speculate not that you speculate /.


Input: The fact of the matter is that Karl Rove has been to the grand jury four times /.

Karl Rove

four


Input: The fact of the matter is that there are lots of people in Washington and believe me they're not all journalists who are speculating what if the guy gets indicted /.

Washington


Input: It would be irresponsible I think for the media not to reflect what the discussion is here in town /.


Input: And there are plenty of Republicans mostly Republicans who are worried about this /.

Republicans

Republicans


Input: Alright I want to turn now to uh President Bush's uh meeting uh uh photo op some called it with US troops in Iraq whether it was staged how shocking that would be /.

Bush

US

Iraq


Input: Let's take a look at the actual footage /.


Input: And in your interactions with the Iraqi civilians in Tikrit Saddam's hometown how are they reacting to this political process /?

Iraqi

Tikrit

Saddam


Input: Sir in the north central area of Iraq voter registration has increased seventeen percent /.

Iraq

seventeen percent


Input: Can you give us a sense for the reception of the people there in Tikrit /?

Tikrit


Input: Sir in north central Iraq voter regis- /-

Iraq


Input: Are you stunned /?


Input: Are you stunned /?


Input: Shocked /.


Input: I can't believe it /.


Input: they rehearsed it /.


Input: They rehearsed it /.


Input: They rehearsed it /.


Input: Yeah you know something /?


Input: uh I remember a long time ago Michael Deaver the ultimate image meister for Ronald Reagan said my job is to light the President well and for everything I do to put the President in a good light /.

Michael Deaver

Ronald Reagan


Input: Now look first of all this is uncomfortable to see /.

first


Input: and what the problem this now creates for the White House is {is} it plays into the credibility issue that the President has that everything now is becoming a photo op and a rehearsed event in order to rescue what are tumbling numbers on his performance on public support of Iraq the whole bit /.

the White House

Iraq


Input: But the fact that anybody would think that you would do something like this a remote /.


Input: I mean anybody in television will tell you that's complicated business /.


Input: You have satellite delay /.


Input: You have a half a dozen people sitting there /.

a half a dozen


Input: Who's going to speak when /.


Input: You don't want awkward silences /.


Input: You're going to walk through it /.


Input: so that it happened doesn't surprise me /.


Input: That it hurts the President yeah that's inevitable too /.


Input: Arianna Huffington does the staging here surprise you at all /?

Arianna Huffington


Input: Well it's not the question of surpising me Howie /.

Howie


Input: It's the fact that we are talking about war /.


Input: This is not just any photo opportunity /.


Input: Of course that's part and parcel of the presidency /.


Input: But we're talking about a war in which almost two thousand young Americans have died /.

almost two thousand

Americans


Input: And we are also using soldiers as props /.


Input: Yes it is shocking /.


Input: and I think Keith Olbermann did a phenomenal job at exposing this on MSNBC /.

Keith Olbermann

MSNBC


Input: Alright /.


Input: And I think more and more journalists are actually taking a hard look at what this administration is doing /.


Input: And we'll have to leave it there /.


Input: Last word /.


Input: Arianna Huffington Lucy Dalglish in Minneapolis Frank Sesno thanks so very much for joining us /.

Arianna Huffington

Lucy Dalglish

Frank Sesno

Minneapolis


Input: Coming up, we launch our new segment Talk Back to the Media /.

Talk Back to the Media


Input: President Clinton's former lawyer Lanny Davis takes on Sixty Minutes and ex-FBI director Louis Freeh /.

Clinton

Lanny Davis

Louis Freeh

Sixty Minutes

ex-FBI


Input: And still to come New York Times columnist Tom Friedman /.

New York Times

Tom Friedman


Input: Welcome back /.


Input: In our new Talk Back to the Media segment someone who believes he or she's been treated unfairly by the press gets the chance to sound off and give their side of the controversy /.

Talk Back to the Media


Input: Last Sunday Mike Wallace sat down with Louis Freeh who's peddling a memoir on Sixty Minutes /.

Last Sunday

Mike Wallace

Louis Freeh

Sixty Minutes


Input: and the former FBI director unloaded on the President who appointed him Bill Clinton /.

FBI

Bill Clinton


Input: Among his criticisms the former president's handling of the nineteen ninety - six Khobar Towers terrorist bombing that killed nineteen US marines in Saudi Arabia /.

nineteen ninety - six

Khobar Towers

nineteen

US

Saudi Arabia


Input: I was very disappointed that the political leadership of the United States uh would tell the families of these nineteen heroes that we were going to leave no stone unturned and find the people who killed them /.

the United States

nineteen


Input: to give that order to the director because that's the order that I got and then to do nothing to assist and facilitate that investigation in fact to undermine it /.


Input: The Clinton people were furious at the way Sixty Minutes hailed the segment /.

Clinton

Sixty Minutes


Input: and here to talk back is former Clinton White House attorney Lanny Davis /.

Clinton

Lanny Davis

White House


Input: Welcome /.


Input: Let's deal with the substance first /.

first


Input: Louis Freeh says that when Clinton met with Crown Prince Abdullah in nineteen ninety - eight, he didn't press for FBI access to suspects in the Khobar Towers bombing and he hit up the prince for a contribution to his presidential library /.

Louis Freeh

Clinton

Crown Prince Abdullah

nineteen ninety - eight

FBI

Khobar Towers


Input: Well not only is that false and President Clinton has said so but everybody who attended the meeting not including Louis Freeh says it's false /.

Clinton

Louis Freeh


Input: And my problem with Sixty Minutes is that they never called anybody at the meeting /.


Input: Until Friday afternoon we didn't even know the charge was being made /.

Friday afternoon


Input: And even then they were unwilling to put somebody on the air to contradict Mister Freeh /.

Freeh


Input: Sixty Minutes says Bill Clinton was offered a chance to come on and give his rebuttal /.

Sixty Minutes

Bill Clinton


Input: What's wrong with that /?


Input: Well first of all it's absolutely amazing that Sixty Minutes thinks it's okay to air a false and malicious statement /.

first

Sixty Minutes


Input: This is a terrible charge that an FBI investigation was thwarted because President Clinton wanted to receive money for his library /.

FBI

Clinton


Input: The charge was false /.


Input: and the only way that that can be countered is a former president of the United States /?

the United States


Input: What about anybody at the meeting who was willing to be on /?


Input: What about them doing reporting themselves before they air a false and demonstrably false charge /?


Input: That's my problem /.


Input: What about Sandy Berger the former national security advisor under President Clinton /?

Sandy Berger

Clinton


Input: He was at the meeting /.


Input: He was in the room /.


Input: Did you offer him for an on - camera interview /?


Input: Well on Friday afternoon /.

Friday afternoon


Input: You weren't there /.


Input: I was not there /.


Input: You're good on television /.


Input: but you weren't there /.


Input: uh I talked to Sandy Berger /.

Sandy Berger


Input: We issued a statement from Mister Berger /.

Berger


Input: but this was Friday afternoon when we first learned about it with Sunday broadcast /.

Friday afternoon

first

Sunday


Input: Why didn't Sixty Minutes invite Mister Berger or other people at the meeting before Friday afternoon /?

Sixty Minutes

Berger

Friday afternoon


Input: Why did it take us to get Sixty Minutes to do basic reporting to verify facts /?

Sixty Minutes


Input: It's not enough to have Louis Freeh say something is so based on an anonymous source /.

Louis Freeh


Input: That's poor journalism /.


Input: On that point let me read a statement from a Sixty Minutes spokesman /.

Sixty Minutes


Input: And this involves uh their saying that they contacted Clinton's office back in August with a detailed list of charges and then quote in subsequent phone calls the President's people said he did not want to be interviewed /.

Clinton

August


Input: They gave no +substantive response to any of the allegations until Lanny Davis launched his PR campaign on the Thursday before the broadcast and offered himself as the person from the camp who would merely disparage and attack Freeh rather than deal with his allegations /.

Lanny Davis

Freeh

the Thursday before the broadcast


Input: Denials from President Clinton and Sandy Berger that did deal with Freeh's allegations were included in the Sixty Minutes report /.

Clinton

Sandy Berger

Freeh

Sixty Minutes


Input: Well first of all it's false to say that I was asking to disparage Freeh /.

Freeh


Input: I was asking to talk about facts that Freeh was saying that were not true /.

Freeh


Input: You don't mind disparaging Freeh /.

Freeh


Input: my observation /.


Input: no in fact I disparage any man who as FBI director has a personal pique rather than doing his job /.

FBI


Input: That's disparaging /.


Input: Secondly it is absolutely a misrepresentation that they told us before just the week before /.

Secondly

just the week before


Input: When Mister Carson the representative spoke to Mister Wallace Mister Wallace agreed that they had never verified what Mister uh Freeh had said /.

Carson

Wallace

Wallace

Freeh


Input: They never talked to Mister Freeh /.

Freeh


Input: and in fact it wasn't until that Friday that we learned the substance of Mister Freeh's charges /.

that Friday

Freeh


Input: So Sixty Minutes I think has just said something that is false /.

Sixty Minutes


Input: When did the Clinton team find out that Sixty Minutes was going to report that Louis Freeh with his new book was going to have a specific allegation about Clinton's handling of the Khobar Towers investigation and the business about the presidential library solicitation /.

Clinton

Louis Freeh

Sixty Minutes

Khobar Towers


Input: When somebody named Howard Kurtz wrote a story in the Washington Post on Friday morning is the first time that the Clinton forces learned about that false and demonstrably false charge that good reporting by calling people who were at the meeting could have done would have verified that Mister Freeh made a false charge /.

Howard Kurtz

Clinton

Freeh

the Washington Post

Friday morning

first


Input: And even since that interview Mister Freeh has backed off and has not told people who his source is /.

Freeh


Input: and he hasn't even insisted that it was true /.


Input: He just said somebody told him it was true /.


Input: Hold on /.


Input: Sixty Minutes spokesman Kevin Tedesco said in the statement I just referred to that the Clinton office was contacted in August with a detailed list of charges /.

Sixty Minutes

Kevin Tedesco

Clinton

August


Input: That's false /.


Input: Are you saying that's false /?


Input: They were never told /. /.


Input: or at least I'm now basing this on what Mister Carson has told me /.

Carson


Input: Jay Carson is the spokesman for former president Bill Clinton /.

Jay Carson

Bill Clinton


Input: Jay Carson is the spokesperson for President Clinton was not informed about the specific charge about the Khobar Towers which happens to be not true /.

Jay Carson

Clinton

the Khobar Towers


Input: President Clinton at that uh meeting did press the uh Crown Prince to cooperate with the FBI /.

Clinton

FBI


Input: so what Mister Freeh said was false /.

Freeh


Input: That was not understood by the Clinton people until it was read in the Washington Post in the story that you wrote because Sixty Minutes put a press release out /.

Clinton

the Washington Post

Sixty Minutes


Input: Uh now look Lanny Davis Sixty Minutes gave Bill Clinton one hour last year to push his own ten million dollar autobiography /.

Lanny Davis

Bill Clinton

Sixty Minutes

one hour

last year

ten million dollar


Input: He criticized people /.


Input: He criticized Ken Starr /.

Ken Starr


Input: They didn't have Ken Starr on to rebut /.

Ken Starr


Input: Now the former director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation uh who can't stand Clinton clearly writes a book gets one segment for his book /.

the Federal Bureau of Investigation

Clinton

one


Input: and you cry foul /.


Input: Nobody was complaining about when Bill Clinton was getting all this airtime on CBS /.

Bill Clinton

CBS


Input: Look /.


Input: Look this is a program about good journalism /.


Input: Let's ask a Sixty Minutes uh journalist to say do you have an obligation to verify a charge made by the former FBI director as whether it's true or not /.

Sixty Minutes

FBI


Input: Is it good enough to air it just because he says it /.


Input: or should you do reporting /?


Input: Good reporters would hear that charge and say that is an extremely serious charge to be levelled against former president Clinton /.

Clinton


Input: Let's see whether it's true and start making phone calls /.


Input: They did not do that /.


Input: That's a fact /.


Input: Alright Lanny Davis thanks very much for coming on to Talk Back to the Media this morning /.

Lanny Davis

Talk Back to the Media

this morning


Input: We appreciate it /.


Input: Ahead in the second half of Reliable Sources New York Times columnist Tom Friedman on whether the media are suffering from Iraq fatigue /.

second

Reliable Sources

New York Times

Tom Friedman

Iraq


Input: Plus that heavily hyped subway threat that wasn't /.


Input: After an update on the hour's top stories from Atlanta /.

hour

Atlanta


Input: Hello I'm at the CNN center in Atlanta /.

CNN

Atlanta


Input: Now in the news /.


Input: Earthquake relief flights have resumed in Pakistan /.

Pakistan


Input: That's after torrential rain stopped flights for hours there /.

hours


Input: And a Pakistani helicopter crashed killing six soldiers /.

Pakistani

six


Input: A magnitude seven point six earthquake struck last weekend as you recall /.

seven point six

last weekend


Input: Pakistan's prime minister says it killed at least thirty - eight thousand people and left about two and a half million homeless /.

Pakistan

thirty - eight thousand

about two and a half million


Input: Toledo Ohio is quiet this morning after a planned march by a self - styled nazi group sparked a riot yesterday /.

Toledo

Ohio

this morning

yesterday


Input: The Associated Press says police arrested at least sixty - five people /.

The Associated Press

at least sixty - five


Input: The march never got started /.


Input: but hundreds of counter-demonstrators showed up and battled police on and off for more than three hours /.

hundreds

more than three hours


Input: Police say the protestors vandalized vehicles and buildings setting at least one structure on fire /.

at least one


Input: Look at this /.


Input: a semi-truck and a bus carrying high school band members collided overnight on interstate ninety - four and in Wisconsin /.

overnight

interstate ninety - four

Wisconsin


Input: The Associated Press quotes the Wisconsin state patrol as saying at least five people were killed /.

The Associated Press

Wisconsin

at least five


Input: The students were from Chippewa Falls Wisconsin /.

Chippewa Falls

Wisconsin


Input: They were returning from a band competition at the University of Wisconsin in Whitewater /.

the University of Wisconsin

Whitewater


Input: Those are the headlines this morning /.

this morning


Input: I'm in Atlanta /.

Atlanta


Input: We have another news update coming up in just thirty minutes /.

just thirty minutes


Input: More of CNN's Reliable Sources continues right now /.

CNN

Reliable Sources


Input: Welcome back to the second half of Reliable Sources /.

second

Reliable Sources


Input: Our new time for those of you just turning in is ten AM eastern seven on the west coast /.

ten AM eastern

seven


Input: And we'll be bringing you a full hour of media interviews and analysis each week /.

a full hour

each week


Input: The Iraq story which the media has placed on the back burner in recent months is simmering again as voters in that war torn country went to the polls yesterday to vote on a new constitution with the results yet to be counted /.

Iraq

yesterday


Input: But are journalists getting the real story there /?


Input: To help us scrutinize the coverage I sat down with a foreign affairs columnist of the New York Times three time Pulitzer winner Tom Friedman and the author most recently of The World is Flat /.

the New York Times

three

Pulitzer

The World is Flat

Tom Friedman


Input: Tom Friedman welcome /.

Tom Friedman


Input: Good to be here Howie /.

Howie


Input: thank you /.


Input: The other day you wrote that if you were the editor of the New York Times you would've led the paper with the news of recent days that a Sunni suicide bomber on Ramadan had attacked a Shiite mosque /.

The other day

Ramadan

the New York Times

Sunni

Shiite


Input: Now in reality the world that you don't rule New York Times Washington Post made that part of a larger story on Iraq /.

New York Times

Washington Post

Iraq


Input: Uh nobody put it on the front page /.


Input: Bad news judgement /?


Input: Uh I think so Howie /.

Howie


Input: I'm not here to make a news point though /.


Input: I'm really making a larger point which is about the war on terrorism /.


Input: I'm a firm believer /.


Input: How we ever going to win this war /?


Input: We're never going to win it by way of American intelligence finding this terrorist or that terrorist /.

American


Input: We get lucky every once in a while /.


Input: but there's only {one?} way we win this war Howie is it takes a village /.

Howie


Input: It only happens when the Sunni Muslim world basically turns people in and when the Sunni Muslim world restrains their own /.

Sunni Muslim

Sunni Muslim


Input: And what was so shocking to me about this story a Sunni Jihadi suicide bomber blows up a mosque number one on the first day of Ramadan /.

Sunni Jihadi

number one

the first day of Ramadan


Input: What that tells you is that there's no controlling moral authority today in the Sunni Muslim world /.

today

Sunni Muslim


Input: Well what is the bigger story /?


Input: And that is a huge story /.


Input: I think it should have been a big story /.


Input: Why wasn't /-


Input: Is it because of Iraq fatigue /?

Iraq


Input: Um /.


Input: I think it is yeah /.


Input: Think it's /-


Input: Are all the editors and producers and new executives feeling another day another bombing ten killed twenty killed fifteen killed /.

another day

ten

twenty

fifteen


Input: and it doesn't rise anymore to the top of the newscast or the front page /?


Input: Right /.


Input: Yeah and I think that's right /.


Input: There is Iraq fatigue /.

Iraq


Input: And there's so much fatigue that we don't sit back and say wait a minute /.

a minute


Input: what happened today /?

today


Input: A Sunni Muslim fundamentalist went into a mosque on the first day of Ramadan their holiest day /.

Sunni Muslim

the first day of Ramadan


Input: and no one says boo /.


Input: this is civilization that when we accidentally or deliberately I don't know abused the Koran people rioted in Pakistan /.

Koran

Pakistan


Input: Yet their own houses of worship and holidays are being defiled /.


Input: And I think it is a measure of how much we've kind of lost been numbed by all of this that we don't sit back and say wow wait a minute /.

a minute


Input: that really crosses the line /.


Input: and we have to call them on it even if they don't /.


Input: You're recently back from Iraq /.

Iraq


Input: and you write about driving in from Kuwait /.

Kuwait


Input: You were guarded by the US navy /.

US


Input: and yet it was kind of a harrowing experience /.


Input: Why so /?


Input: Um you know the south of Iraq which is where I was the area around /.

Iraq


Input: This is the safe part /.


Input: Right exactly /.


Input: I was in the safe district /.


Input: I was guarded uh by the British Royal Marines actually because unfortunately they've had now um uh roadside bombs down there not suicide bombs /.

the British Royal Marines


Input: And it's part of the general continuing insecurity of Iraq that um I'm afraid has plagued this story from the very beginning /.

Iraq


Input: And it's been I've always felt the Achille's heel /.

Achille


Input: You know my criticism of the Bush administration as you know we've talked about this before is not that this war is not important /.

Bush


Input: I believe it is important much more important than I think the left has ever fully recognized /.


Input: But it's so much harder than the right has ever been willing to acknowledge /.


Input: And on that trip you put on body armor /.


Input: their rifles were out /.


Input: Yeah /.


Input: Um how does that affect your perception as a journalist /?


Input: You're there /.


Input: you're being protected /.


Input: and you must have been a little bit nervous of what the safety situation is in there /.


Input: Well I'll tell you what's really frustrating from a journalist's point of view as one who have lived in Beirut for nearly five years covered that war /.

Beirut

nearly five years


Input: When I worked in Lebanon you could go anywhere on that story /.

Lebanon


Input: You could cross lines /.


Input: Journalists worked for the most part until the very end with Terry Anderson the kidnappings targets /.

Terry Anderson


Input: Therefore by the end of the Lebanon story I thought the best journalists there knew more than the Lebanese /.

Lebanon

Lebanese


Input: I always thought the best compliment you could get as a journalist is when you told the Lebanese something they didn't know because you were moving around so much /.

Lebanese


Input: What's so frustrating about the Iraq story Howie no one has a bird's eye view /.

Iraq

Howie


Input: I care passionately about this story /.


Input: I'm so interested in it /.


Input: but because of the securtiy situation you can't move around with the freedom you want /.


Input: And the brave reporters who are there every day don't have that freedom of movement either /.

every day


Input: And therefore it's limited /.


Input: and in fact as you know the administration says because of the security situation and maybe because of some biases in the media /.


Input: There's a lot of good things going on in Iraq /.

Iraq


Input: There's a lot of progress being made we're not seeing reported by the press /.


Input: Do you think that is a credible argument at this point in the mess there /?


Input: No because I don't have a bird's eye view /.


Input: I wish I could say /.


Input: I wish I could be so sure /.


Input: but General Casey doesn't have a bird's eye view /.

Casey


Input: And that's why we get surprises in Iraq /.

Iraq


Input: Uh that's why we had an election where eight million people suddenly turn out /.

eight million


Input: and maybe you know we're going to see more surpises in the coming future there /.


Input: But because no one can move around with the freedom that you need to talk to everyone you don't have that bird's eye view /.


Input: And as a reporter as a columnist who really cares about this story I find that really frustra- /-


Input: I can not report it the way I'd love to /.


Input: So I've been there five times /.

five


Input: but it's episodic /.


Input: It's here /.


Input: It's there /.


Input: It's never really putting your arms around the story /.


Input: pulling back the camera a bit in recent months you'd have to say that the Iraq story has been overshadowed by Katrina by Rita by Tom DeLay by Harriet Miers by Valerie Plame and now by this Pakistan earthquake /.

recent months

Iraq

Pakistan

Katrina

Rita

Tom DeLay

Harriet Miers

Valerie Plame


Input: Um inevitable with a war that drags on and on /.


Input: and these are all also important stories obviously /.


Input: but uh do you feel it's getting the attention that it should /?


Input: Yeah /.


Input: No because to me this is the whole ballgame of the Bush administration /.

Bush


Input: Katrina and Rita they'll come and go /.

Katrina

Rita


Input: but at the end of the day the Bush administration made a very big claim um that it could go to Iraq um and produce a decent forward looking government there /.

Bush

Iraq


Input: If that happens then I think President Bush is going to have a very huge quiver you know in his uh legacy there /.

Bush


Input: Um if it doesn't happen I think uh the administration will be seen as a complete and utter failure /.


Input: so everything rides on this not just for the administration though but for the American people /.

American


Input: These are huge stakes involved /.


Input: And so I don't think it's gotten the attention it's deserved /.


Input: And going back again to one of your Iraq collumns uh you observed the Iraqi military there which after all is supposed to be increasingly shouldering the burden of this conflict /.

Iraq

Iraqi


Input: The slightly ragged quality left you feeling you write that if you pulled the US and British advisors out tomorrow the whole Iraqi navy would collapse /.

US

British

Iraqi

tomorrow


Input: That's a pretty pessimistic assessment and clearly at odds with what the White House and the Defense Department say every day /.

the White House

the Defense Department

every day


Input: Not at odds though with what actually the military commanders have been saying which is that the number of really trained Iraqi units you know are far fewer than sometimes suggested by the administration /.

Iraqi


Input: So you're saying there's a gap between what real time military commanders on the ground are willing to tell you not necessarily on the record /.


Input: You quoted one US senior official and what the President of the United States and the Vice President and the Secretary of Defense are saying to reporters every day /.

one

US

the United States

Defense

every day


Input: Are we calling them on that /?


Input: Right I don't think enough because there's been a lot of happy talk around this Howie basically /.

Howie


Input: And a lot of numbers are thrown out /.


Input: Eighty thousand this week we've got trained a hundred and twenty thousand next week /.

Eighty thousand

a hundred and twenty thousand

this week

next week


Input: Here's what you learn when you go to Iraq /.

Iraq


Input: Where you have an Iraqi commander who's a real leader of soldiers okay you have a unit /.

Iraqi


Input: And where you don't have that commander you don't have a unit /.


Input: So the numbers the macro numbers don't mean anything /.


Input: So I went down to see the navy there /.


Input: The navy of Iraq has a terrific commander /.

Iraq


Input: so the people around him they'll follow him into battle /.


Input: But you take that one guy out there's no Iraqi navy /.

one

Iraqi


Input: and it's true of units all over the country /.


Input: That's really the key /.


Input: You say that you are angry uh that Bush has fought the war as though it would be easy /.

Bush


Input: Are you particularly angry as somebody who supported the war and took heat from some of your liberal friends for doing so /?


Input: Yes /.


Input: Absolutely because I believe this is important /.


Input: I believe that something very big is at stake /.


Input: We're dealing with a Muslim Arab civilization right now that's that's in decline, that's heading in the wrong direction in ways that are dangerous for them and I believe dangerous for the stability of the world /.

Muslim Arab


Input: There's something really important here at stake /.


Input: and what makes me so angry at the Bush administration is not that they didn't frame the stakes /.

Bush


Input: It is important /.


Input: But they never never appreciated how difficult it was /.


Input: They never prepared the army or the American people for how difficult it was /.

American


Input: I mentioned the uh devastating earthquake in Pakistan a region you're familiar with /.

Pakistan


Input: Um clearly it's become a pretty big story /.


Input: but for the first couple days I noticed it wasn't that much of a television story /.

the first couple days


Input: and the reason was no pictures no video /.


Input: No yes /.


Input: Um but also maybe there was there a little bit less coverage because it's in a remote part of the world /?


Input: Uh Westerners are more interested in New Orleans than in Pakistan /?

Westerners

New Orleans

Pakistan


Input: I think all of the above /.


Input: We're so numbed also after Katrina and Rita /.

Katrina

Rita


Input: and now another earthquake /.


Input: It's just become uh one natural disaster after another /.

one


Input: to hear ten thousand twenty thousand forty thousand then it's almost hard for a journalist to process /.

ten thousand

twenty thousand

forty thousand


Input: Right /.


Input: And it was remote /.


Input: and people are exhausted I think both viewers and reporters /.


Input: Ahead have New York Times columnists been asked not to write about Judy Miller /?

New York Times

Judy Miller


Input: More of my interview with Tom Friedman next /.

Tom Friedman


Input: Welcome back to Reliable Sources now a full hour each week here in our new time slot ten to eleven o'clock eastern /.

Reliable Sources

a full hour

ten to eleven o'clock eastern

each week


Input: More now of my conversation with New York Times columnist Tom Friedman about his book the new online charge to read him and Judy Miller /.

New York Times

Tom Friedman

Judy Miller


Input: Now your new book The World is Flat I've got it here /.

The World is Flat


Input: uh monster best seller more than a million copies better than any book you've ever written before /.

more than a million


Input: Um you were recently profiled about this in Fortune magazine /.

Fortune


Input: and uh let's just say that it didn't say you walked on water but it came close /.


Input: Uh but one of the criticisms /-


Input: What's wrong with that /?


Input: It says that you're the composer of the nation's talking points which was news to me /.


Input: Uh one of the things it said was that uh in your book and in your writing that CEOs play a very central role /.


Input: And the suggestion was well CEOs love you, you're asked to speak at all these corporate events, maybe because you give them a very large uh share of the narrative /.


Input: Yeah /.


Input: Mhm /.


Input: Mhm /.


Input: That a reasonable observation /?


Input: Yeah it is a reasonable observation /.


Input: And my reaction to that is look if I want to understand the underlying technology that is flattening the world who do I go to /?


Input: do I go to I don't know Central America /?

Central America


Input: Do I go to um uh the factory floor /?


Input: Or do I go to the innovators and entrepeneurs who actually put all this together /?


Input: So I make no apology for that at all /.


Input: Um fact I would make a criticism of it /.


Input: There aren't enough people during the last few years who actually went out and talked to the innovators who are doing all of these things who are actually reshaping the world /.

the last few years


Input: Just the opposite /.


Input: We kind of had an Enron effect /.

Enron


Input: and Enron effect was all CEOs are guilty unless proven innocent, therefore who wants to talk to them /?

Enron


Input: And therefore I would argue -- /.


Input: Wait a second /.

a second


Input: wait a second /.

a second


Input: Journalists uh subscribe to stereotypes because there are a few crooks at major corporations because you know they're all bad guys /?


Input: Yeah yeah /.


Input: Yeah I would say /.


Input: uh that's a harsh uh assessment /.


Input: I would say that there's several things happened basically in the last three years /.

the last three years


Input: I would call it a perfect storm /.


Input: One was nine eleven /.

One

nine eleven


Input: That distracted us okay /.


Input: The other was the Enron effect /.

Enron


Input: You know no one wanted to be sort of seen with CEOs /.


Input: And number three was the dot com bust which made everyone think well all this globalization technology stuff is really over /.

number three


Input: And as a result I would argue that really masked what is actually a fundemental inflection point the flattening of the world that we're going from a vertical value creation model of command and control to a much more horizontal one of connect and collaborate /.


Input: The argument of this book is that that shift is actually going to have as big an effect over time as Gutenberg and the printing press /.

Gutenberg


Input: And I would argue a little bit that it got missed because of all these other distractions /.


Input: But it's only had an effect on Tom Friedman's career /.

Tom Friedman's


Input: In fact you were the Playboy interview /.

Playboy


Input: Hey put that paper down /.


Input: I bought it for the articles /.


Input: Uh I enjoyed the interview /.


Input: and you said in there that your wife uh edits all your columns and she says don't publish it /.


Input: Yes she does /.


Input: You go back and rewrite it /.


Input: I'm afraid I do /.


Input: My wife Andrea edits them all /.

Andrea


Input: and when she gives me thumbs down Howie I have to put it in a ball throw it in the circular file and start over /.

Howie


Input: and she's a tough editor /.


Input: Now your international readership on the New York Times website has gone down because of this new experiment the Times has where it costs forty nine ninety - five a year for non-subscribers at home to read Times columnists /.

New York Times

Times

Times

forty nine ninety - five


Input: That's got to be disappointing for you /.


Input: You know um I'm torn /.


Input: Uh and I've said this to my bosses /.


Input: Um I want my paper to thrive /.


Input: and if we have a situation where young people grow up in the world that thinks that newspapers are things you read for free online who's going to pay my travel expenses /?


Input: And at the same time one of the greatest things about New York Times online is I got to reach an audience that just was exponential to what you got in the dead tree edition of the New York Times /.

one

New York Times

the New York Times


Input: And because I write about international affairs so I got a lot of young people in India and Egypt and whatnot /.

India

Egypt


Input: and for them fifty dollars that may be their tuition for half a year /.

fifty dollars

half a year


Input: So I'm honestly torn /.


Input: I really hope this works because I want the New York Times to have a platform that is sustainable /.

the New York Times


Input: But at the same time I hope we can eventually find a way to re-engage those people because definitely we've lost some of them /.


Input: Eh in the Valerie Plame leak investigation there's an allegation bouncing around the blogosphere that I just thought I would address with you which is have New York Times columnists somehow been told not to write about this because of Judy Miller's involvement and being in jail, now being out of jail /.

Valerie Plame

Judy Miller's

New York Times


Input: absolutely not /.


Input: Anybody tell you not to write about it /?


Input: I mean they don't tell me not to write about anything /.


Input: Howie we are home alone okay /.


Input: I mean I'm going to China uh on Monday /.

China

Monday


Input: and there's only one person knows I'm going /.

one


Input: and that's my assistant /.


Input: So um /-


Input: Did you even tell the boss /?


Input: That's right /. so there's no edict out there /.


Input: why people haven't written about it I don't know /.


Input: I'm focused on other things /.


Input: There's a lot we don't know obviously about the Judith Miller situation /.

Judith Miller


Input: but why do you think that she has gotten so much criticism /?


Input: After all whether you agree with her or not this is a woman who believed in her convictions and went off to jail for eighty - five days /.

eighty - five days


Input: Um you know um Judy's always been a pioneer and an agent of change you know um and uh has been at the forefront of a lot of stories /.

Judy


Input: and people like that in our business um uh engender a lot of attention a lot of criticism and a lot of jealousy /.


Input: Um and uh that's the only way I can really explain /.


Input: Tom Friedman /.

Tom Friedman /.


Input: Up next did the media get carried away with last week's subway terror alert /?

last week's


Input: We'll ride the rails into the spin cycle next /.


Input: When New York mayor Mike Bloomberg announced last week that there was a possible terror threat against the city's subways I thought here we go again /.

New York

Mike Bloomberg

last week


Input: And television was all over the story /.


Input: Here in New York tonight officials say they are increasing security on the city's massive subway system because of what they call a significant and credible threat /.

New York

tonight


Input: The threat to attack the subways in coming days comes from overseas /.

coming days


Input: and the police here will be searching bags briefcases even baby strollers to try to stop it /.


Input: It was let's face it irresistable /.


Input: And since it was right there in the Big Apple cable anchors and correspondents could provide almost non-stop on the scene coverage /.

the Big Apple


Input: The threat concerns the New York City subway system behind me around me literally beneath our feet here in Times Square /.

New York City

Times Square


Input: The Fox News alert New York City subways are on a heightened state of alert this evening after what officials are describing as a specific threat /.

Fox News

New York City

this evening


Input: And the city's tabloids weren't far behind /.


Input: The problem as with so many previous terror alerts is that allegations from informants are inherently shaky /.


Input: And some correspondents offered caveats of course /.


Input: MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann couldn't help but notice on that day October six it was news that Karl Rove had been called back to testify in the CIA leak case and the white house is being assailed by conservatives over the Harriet Miers nomination /.

MSNBC

CIA

the white house

Keith Olbermann

Karl Rove

Harriet Miers

that day

October six


Input: events that have been politically disadvantageous to the current administration have been uh occuring simultaneously or followed quickly upon with something related to terrorism on a big scale /.


Input: By the next morning the New York Times and the Washington Post were reporting that federal authorities were playing down the threat as noncredible /.

the next morning

the New York Times

the Washington Post


Input: But the TV coverage kept rolling down the track like the number four express /.

number four


Input: Finally last Tuesday some newspapers and then the cable networks reported that the whole thing was a hoax /.

last Tuesday


Input: The CBS evening news gave that three sentences /.

CBS

evening

three


Input: Well Jim Stewart of our Washington bureau quotes government sources tonight as saying the Iraqi man who gave that tip to US intelligence agents in Iraq now says the information was simply not true /.

Jim Stewart

Washington

US

Iraq

tonight

Iraqi


Input: But that's a lot more than NBC Nightly News and ABC's World News Tonight which didn't mention the great subway hoax at all /.

NBC Nightly News

ABC's World News Tonight


Input: In an age of terror such threats obviously need to be reported /.


Input: but given the unreliability of intelligence television ought to learn a lesson here about not going on high alert and scaring people /.


Input: When we come back one network up the river without an explanation /.

one


Input: Reporters are tired of the usual standups you know Howard Kurtz Oshkosh Wisconsin /.

Howard Kurtz

Oshkosh

Wisconsin


Input: They want to be riding on a train or walking in the rain or something to get attention /.


Input: So when NBC's Michelle Kosinski was covering some flooding in New Jersey for the Today Show Friday she set out in a canoe /.

NBC

the Today Show

Michelle Kosinski

New Jersey

Friday


Input: And everything was going smoothly until /-


Input: Well take a look /.


Input: Good morning /.

morning


Input: Well obviously we're getting a nice break from the rain but not the flooding /.


Input: This is essentially now a part of the Passaic River in this neighborhood /.

the Passaic River


Input: Two guys walk into the shot /.

Two


Input: and we see that the water is only maybe four inches deep /.

only maybe four inches


Input: Talk about shallow reporting /.


Input: And as the Media Research Center pointed out this was right before the Today Show accused President Bush of staging his conversation with soldiers in Iraq /.

the Media Research Center

the Today Show

Bush

Iraq


Input: Well that's it for this edition of Reliable Sources /.

Reliable Sources


Input: Join us again next Sunday at our new time ten o'clock eastern seven pacific for a full hour of critiquing the media /.

next Sunday

ten o'clock eastern

seven pacific

a full hour


Input: Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer begins right now /.

Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer


Input: This is Late Edition the last word in Sunday talk /.

Late Edition

Sunday


Input: All the indications we are getting even /.


Input: -- basically, it was unanimously agreed upon by the various relevant parties.


Input: To express its determination, the Chinese securities regulatory department compares this stock reform to a die that has been cast.

Chinese


Input: It takes time to prove whether the stock reform can really meet expectations, and whether any deviations that arise during the stock reform can be promptly corrected.


Input: Dear viewers, the China News program will end here.

China News


Input: This is Xu Li.

Xu Li


Input: Thank you everyone for watching.


Input: Coming up is the Focus Today program hosted by Wang Shilin.

Focus Today

Wang Shilin


Input: Good-bye, dear viewers.


Input: Hello, dear viewers.


Input: Welcome to Focus Today.

Focus Today


Input: Today, let's turn our attention to a road cave - in accident that happened in Beijing over the holiday.

Today

Beijing


Input: Before dawn on January 3, a sewage pipe leakage accident occurred at the main and side roads of Jingguang Bridge, East Third Ring Road, Beijing Municipality, resulting in the road caving in.

January 3

Jingguang Bridge

East Third Ring Road

Beijing Municipality


Input: Relevant departments from Beijing Municipality promptly activated emergency contingency plans.

Beijing Municipality


Input: The traffic administration department carried out traffic supervision near the accident scene.


Input: Well, how did the emergency response mechanisms activated by governmental departments operate effectively during the holiday?


Input: After the holiday, what will be done to handle citizens' peak commute?


Input: In addition, what measures did relevant departments take to resolve issues such as waste discharge, heating, and communication, in order to ensure that the lives of citizens were not affected?


Input: Well, we have invited two honorable guests to the studio today to follow this topic with us.

two

today


Input: One of the two honorable guests in the studio is Professor Zhou Hanhua from the Institute of Law of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

One

two

Zhou Hanhua

the Institute of Law

the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences


Input: Hello.


Input: Next is Yang Yang, a host of Beijing Traffic Radio Station.

Yang Yang

Beijing Traffic Radio Station


Input: Hello.


Input: Welcome both of you to the studio to participate in our program.


Input: Well, I especially want to know, ha, how the two of you found out the news on the day of the accident?

two


Input: Ah,, about 11:00 m. yesterday, ah, I happened to find out through an SMS when I was outside.

about 11:00 m. yesterday


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: It happened that I was going to have lunch with a friend, um, at noon.

noon


Input: And then, the friend first sent me an SMS, Uh-huh. saying he would come pick me up to go together.

first


Input: After that, I received an SMS from 1860.


Input: Uh-huh, it was through an SMS.


Input: And you, Yang Yang?

Yang Yang


Input: A friend happened to call me.


Input: You were not at work that day?

that day


Input: No.


Input: The station called me at noon and said something happened at Jingguang Bridge and that I had to go to the station immediately to research the upcoming program.

noon

Jingguang Bridge


Input: Uh-huh, that means, er, you found out the accident through an information source at the station.


Input: Right, right, right.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Well, like Professor Zhou, I also received this news, ha, through a mobile phone SMS.

Zhou


Input: At that time,, it can be said that this SMS was among the many, ha, SMS containing New Year wishes, like Happy New Year, received after the start of the New Year.

New Year

New Year

the New Year


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Ah, actually I felt a lot of warmth when I received that SMS.


Input: Although we live in the west instead of the east and it did not affect us much, I think it is very useful, ah, to inform people of this kind of news.


Input: Yes, exceptionally.


Input: Yes, exceptionally.


Input: Well, what in fact was the content of that SMS?


Input: Let's take a look via this footage, ha.


Input: I remember the SMS was written like this at that time, saying that, ah, there was a sewage pipe leakage accident on the side road at the southeast corner of Jingguang Bridge at East Third Ring Road, and, well, traffic supervision was implemented near Chaoyang Road, Jingguang Bridge, and East Third Ring Road, and requesting cars to make a detour.

Jingguang Bridge

East Third Ring Road

Chaoyang Road

Jingguang Bridge

East Third Ring Road


Input: Some car owners said that it was very good that the SMS was sent.


Input: Furthermore, there was one last sentence in that SMS thanking citizens for their cooperation and support.

one


Input: Ah, after the SMS was sent,, I felt it seems to be the first time that Beijing Municipality, ah, used an SMS to give notification at the time of a public emergency.

first

Beijing Municipality


Input: I don't know, all of us are living in Beijing, is this the first time, Professor Zhou?

Beijing

first

Zhou


Input: Yes, in terms of an official notification, this should be the first time one was sent officially through 1860.

first


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Of course, in private life, people have used SMS countless times to spread news.


Input: Yes.


Input: Other places in the country must have used this too.


Input: Uh-huh, uh-huh.


Input: Must have used this too.


Input: Actually, I remember receiving an SMS like this one last year before it snowed, since snowfall would affect road conditions in Beijing to a rather large extent.

last year

Beijing


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: However, it did not give people such a special feeling as it did this time.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Ah, when an SMS is sent to inform citizens of such an incident, can it be considered a work method or expression of government information transparency?


Input: Yes, this is indeed through the very successful response to this emergency, ah, by Beijing Municipality, Uh-huh. an extremely good point that is worth pondering deeply, worthy innovation.

Beijing Municipality


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: For instance, previously our news announcements were made through some conventional methods, but this time it was made in the form of a mobile phone SMS.


Input: In fact, this is a method highly emphasized in various countries' development of e-government.


Input: We usually make it sound like e-government is something unattainable.


Input: Yes, when we talked about e-government in the past, it seemed to be only done through the Internet.


Input: Right.


Input: It seemed that computers, ah, and the Internet, ah, were an expression of e-government, to let people find out information.


Input: Well, presently in fact, e-governments in various countries apply this so - called last multiple - exposure method, such as call centers, such as electronic IDs, and such as, these electronic signatures.


Input: These are quite sophisticated forms.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: In particular, more terminals, such as, this cable television, ah,, this digital television, ah, and mobile phone SMS, are applied in e-government.


Input: Hence, I think this is, a test of e-government because, as I remember, during SARS in 2003, people at that time criticized e-government during the spread of SARS, ah.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: They said that e-government was very good but was not put into use.


Input: Well, this time I think that a short SMS like this can fully create interaction between the government and the public through this e-government form.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Yes.


Input: We drive often in Beijing, ha, Yang Yang.

Beijing

Yang Yang


Input: If people were not informed of such a traffic accident through SMS on that day and they continued to head there, what do you think would happen if people did not know what was going on and the jam did not clear?

that day


Input: Yes.


Input: Ah, well, I think it would have been real paralysis.


Input: This is the most appropriate word to use.


Input: Furthermore, I think that when SMS was used to announce the news, it should be said to have fit the conditions in our China very well.

China


Input: Why is that so?


Input: This is because, it should be said that China is the country with the highest SMS usage.

China


Input: There are probably not as many chances to use SMS in foreign countries compared with domestically, in China, ah.

China


Input: So, it can be said that penetration was quite high this time, by using the most familiar method, most used by everyone, as well as the most prompt and most convenient method, for the announcement.


Input: Yes, I noticed that many friends, around me received it.


Input: It seems that almost everyone received this SMS.


Input: Yes.


Input: Yes.


Input: The effect was extremely good, ha.


Input: So, how exactly did citizens react?


Input: Let's take a look at the reactions of citizens.


Input: -- an SMS.


Input: I saw it was that Jingguang Bridge.

that Jingguang Bridge


Input: Hey, I say, this is quite good, quite good.


Input: Have you received information like this before?


Input: No, no.


Input: This was the first time.

first


Input: The first time?

first


Input: Yes, yes.


Input: Well, what do you think of the speed at which the government responded this time?


Input: Quite fast.


Input: Really quite fast, ah.


Input: So, I did not drive today.

today


Input: I set out a bit earlier and took the subway here.


Input: Do you think that the response of the government was fast this time?


Input: Ah, the response was quite fast.


Input: In addition, various media announcements were also quite prompt.


Input: Colleagues and friends also informed one another by phone calls and SMS.


Input: I think this plan was quite speedy.


Input: It seems that through this kind of SMS, citizens responded very well and the effect was excellent, ha.


Input: Well, apart from the, ah, point on information disclosure brought out by this accident, the fact is that the activation of emergency contingency plans by the, ah, government has also left people with a very deep impression.


Input: Let's find out the situation at that time through some footage.


Input: Well, we know that after the road cave - in accident, ah, ah, traffic police and emergency rescue personnel rushed to the scene, ah, to direct traffic and carry out emergency repair of sewage pipes.


Input: Well, lots of barricade tape has been strung up on the side road in the north - south direction of the accident scene beneath the Jingguang Bridge at East Third Ring Road.

the Jingguang Bridge

East Third Ring Road


Input: All personnel responsible for the emergency repair of underground sewage pipes, ah, have arrived at their designated locations.


Input: See, through this footage, we see, ah, this --


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Okay, ah,, this emergency repair worker said that he was there at 4 o'clock.

4 o'clock


Input: That means that they arrived at the scene right after the pre-dawn accident occurred.


Input: Well, it can be said that the traffic administration department was activated very quickly after receiving the news.


Input: Well, ah, Yang Yang, you work at Traffic Radio Station, ha, well, and we know that you all gave an extensive live broadcast this morning.

Yang Yang

Traffic Radio Station


Input: A special program.


Input: Yes, a special program on this traffic.


Input: So, let's first turn our attention to the impact on traffic after the accident.

first


Input: Judging from the traffic control measures taken after the accident, as well as the eventual impact caused, what do you think are the effects?


Input: Actually, concerning this, I think both of you are very familiar with the traffic in Beijing.

Beijing


Input: Previously we had a statistic, especially for the ring roads in Beijing.

Beijing


Input: That is, if we have an ordinary fender bender or tailgate accident on a bridge such as the Jingguang Bridge of the Third Ring Road, it might cause the entire Third Ring Road to have bumper - to - bumper traffic jams during these morning and evening peak periods.

the Jingguang Bridge

the Third Ring Road

Third Ring Road


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: It might even impact traffic on the Second Ring Road and Fourth Ring Road.

Second Ring Road

Fourth Ring Road


Input: Well, ah, if there is an accident, from the time it occurs until the time all traffic is cleared, it probably takes about half an hour to an hour during peak periods.

about half an hour to an hour


Input: Well, we could not imagine imposing temporary traffic restriction measures on a long section of road stretching from Jingguang Bridge to Changhong Bridge from the south all the way to Guomao Bridge, blocking the main and side roads.

Jingguang Bridge

Changhong Bridge

Guomao Bridge


Input: Well, the situation would be unthinkable during this peak period that is the first day of work for everyone.

first


Input: Hence, at that time, before 6:30 a .m. today, before our live broadcast, we moved the broadcast forward, and before the live broadcast we were very worried.

6:30 a .m. today


Input: However, actually after the entire day today, I came here right after ending the live broadcast this evening to continue with the live broadcast here, in fact, in Beijing today people indeed experienced an extremely high volume of traffic flow on the roads surrounding the section under traffic control, and indeed there was a very big traffic jam.

the entire day today

today

Beijing


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: However, the affected area was not as large as expected.


Input: Moreover, some people made detours once they received the news.


Input: Right.


Input: Psychologically, people felt quite relieved.


Input: Because I know this situation.


Input: Right, like those whom we interviewed just now.


Input: It was easy to handle once everyone understood.


Input: Yes, ah,, a citizen, he said, I set out today before the incident, and I did not drive after I was informed.

today


Input: That person did not even drive.


Input: Right.


Input: Actually, in this aspect, I think that citizens were really quite cooperative.


Input: For instance, this evening, we, received an SMS.


Input: A friend said, I work on the 12th floor of the China World Trade Center at the Guomao Bridge, ah.

the China World Trade Center

the Guomao Bridge


Input: We were discussing that we could go home in fewer cars since everyone was on the same route.


Input: Later on, we suggested to him and said, you, ah, might as well take the subway, because you can directly reach the subway once you get down from the China World Trade Center.

the China World Trade Center


Input: Right.


Input: Hey, he said this was quite a good idea.


Input: Actually, I think everyone was quite cooperative and also quite supportive in this aspect.


Input: Yes, many, viewers not in Beijing may not be quite familiar, ah, with this road section we just mentioned, where, ah, the accident occurred.

Beijing


Input: Ah, we can take a look later through an animation.


Input: This road represents a main road on East Third Ring Road, with problems on both the main and side roads.

East Third Ring Road


Input: Furthermore, Chaoyang Road is an intersection.

Chaoyang Road


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Whether it is Chaoyang Road in the east - west direction or the main and side roads of East Third Ring Road in the south - north direction, as we can see from this diagram, it can be said that the area at the main and side roads of East Third Ring Road normally has quite heavy traffic, especially during commuting times.

Chaoyang Road

East Third Ring Road

East Third Ring Road


Input: Well, Chaoyang Road is a very important artery in the east - west direction.

Chaoyang Road


Input: Yes.


Input: When people living in the west want to cross over from the city, they have to go via this road.


Input: Hence, if a traffic accident occurs at this place, we can indeed imagine, ha, how widespread, ah, the extent of the impact will be, such as the number of cars caught in traffic jams.


Input: Yes, actually I think everyone can see that from the buses that cross Jingguang Bridge.

Jingguang Bridge


Input: Yes.


Input: As buses that cross the Third Ring Road are currently, right now affected by the Jingguang Bridge accident, ah, the latest results this morning show that 32 bus routes throughout the neighborhood have had to be rerouted.

the Third Ring Road

Jingguang Bridge


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Well, I think that perhaps many friends in other places are wondering how one place is able to accommodate 32 commuter routes.

one


Input: If the accident did not happen, perhaps everyone would not know that this place could normally have so many --


Input: It is really like this, just look at the bus signs.


Input: Right.


Input: Have not seen so many buses.


Input: Right.


Input: Its effect on people has been extremely extensive.


Input: Yes.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Well, what measures did the traffic control department eventually take to direct traffic?


Input: Our correspondent specially interviewed Director Meng Xianlong, Mr. Meng Xianlong, of the Command Center of the Beijing Municipal Traffic Administration.

Meng Xianlong

Meng Xianlong

the Command Center of the Beijing Municipal Traffic Administration


Input: Let's hear what Director Meng said.

Meng


Input: Um, our traffic control department immediately activated the traffic emergency response plan.


Input: In the roads close to where the problem emerged, we first set up traffic diversion points for traffic control at the southern and northern ends.

first


Input: In this way, all vehicles going along East Third Ring Road had to make a detour to go on roads on the east and west sides.

East Third Ring Road


Input: East Third Ring Road is a traffic artery in the east of Beijing that links the north and the south.

East Third Ring Road

Beijing


Input: In order to ensure smooth traffic in the eastern district, we formulated a set of traffic diversion control plans.


Input: We set up traffic diversion points at 68 locations along East Second Ring Road, East Fourth Ring Road, West Dawang Road, ah, and related roads to the east and west, and deployed more than 210 additional police officers to divert and direct traffic.

East Second Ring Road

East Fourth Ring Road

West Dawang Road


Input: It can be said that measures were very promptly taken.


Input: Ah, today is the first workday after the New Year holiday.

today

first

New Year


Input: Well, what exactly was the situation this morning?


Input: We specially sent a reporter to the scene this morning to shoot some footage.

this morning


Input: Let's take a look at the situation this morning through this footage.


Input: Well, from this footage, we can see that, ha, at East Third Ring Road, ah, near Guanghua Bridge, the roads here that lead to the vicinity of Jingguang Bridge have come under control and, well, various kinds of signs have also been placed at very conspicuous locations.

East Third Ring Road

Guanghua Bridge

Jingguang Bridge


Input: Although the outdoor temperature in Beijing has fallen to minus 3 degrees, the traffic police deployed additional manpower on the roads to direct traffic, ah, and guide drivers in making detours.

Beijing

minus 3 degrees


Input: Well, since direction of traffic was carried out on the periphery, the number of vehicles at the section of the accident was significantly less than usual, with road traffic very orderly.


Input: Ah, it can be said, ah, Yang Yang, citizens, regardless of whether they took the bus or drove, their mentality, in terms of being understanding or calm, ah, was a very important factor in having orderly traffic at the scene.

Yang Yang


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Right, right.


Input: , through your listeners, what kind of feedback did you find out from them?


Input: Actually, this morning, some listeners, ah, also happened to tell us about it via mobile phone SMS.


Input: Since we know that Jingguang Bridge is located in the CBD district, well there are many office buildings, ah, a lot of them, as well as quite a lot of friends who get up early in the morning to go to work.

Jingguang Bridge

CBD

early in the morning


Input: Therefore, they sent SMS saying, hey, it is unusual, ah, for me to be walking to the bus station today or going to take the bus.

today


Input: Well, it is unusual for me to enjoy a very pleasant morning.


Input: We then reminded everyone to wear extra clothing.


Input: This shows that when people encounter such kind of emergency, they have started to be able to face it with a very calm and pleasant state of mind.


Input: I think that this mentality in facing emergencies, in one respect shows a great change of mentality that Beijing citizens now have after enduring several tests in the past, and a kind of calmness and maturity after having experienced frustrations.

one

Beijing


Input: On the other hand, I think it can also fully show the level of people's satisfaction with emergency mechanisms of the operational departments of the government in handling this incident.


Input: That is, they think that the government has tried its best.


Input: Well, in this respect, we citizens should also contribute our efforts.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: As such, in this regard, I think people's mentality can become very calm.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Well, Professor Zhou, from this perspective, is this one highly positive effect achieved after information was disclosed?

Zhou

one


Input: Yes.


Input: In terms of citizens' mentality.


Input: Yes, in fact it can be seen from this particular case.


Input: That is, when the government was handling this kind of public emergency, well, it went from a traditionally unilateral administrative management method, well, a method in which information was quite delayed, to disclosure and transparency of information, and very fast as well.


Input: We know that in the past, disclosure of information had to be reported to higher authorities, level by level, until the highest authorities had given approval, before information could be disclosed.


Input: Time was lost.


Input: Well, yes, the State Council has, er, put forth a regulation concerning the establishment of public early warning mechanisms.

the State Council


Input: That is, related information that can be publicized will be publicized first, in order to guide people in what to do.

first


Input: In this way, related interaction between the government and the people can be formed.


Input: That is, in modern public management, ah, this is a very good case, that is, of shifting from a kind of unilateral administrative management to public management and to positive interaction between the government and the people.


Input: I think in fact, we can sum up many beneficial experiences from this case and actually extend them to other areas.


Input: Yes, this is when we look at this case from the perspective of traffic.


Input: Traffic was the first thing to be impacted when this, cave - in accident occurred.

first


Input: However, this accident actually involved many underground pipes, such as sewage pipes, ah, or water, ah, and gas, ah, pipes, that affect the lives of citizens in many other aspects.


Input: Yes.


Input: Yang Yang, do you know how many pipes there are underground?

Yang Yang


Input: Right now, there should be seven main types of pipes buried underground.


Input: They include those like you just mentioned, as well as pipes like those for heating and communication, among others.


Input: Truly, these pipes are closely linked to the lives of citizens.


Input: Closely linked.


Input: Yes, therefore besides our attention to the traffic issue just now, people are also very concerned, ah, with the situation after the accident, with other aspects affecting citizens' lives.


Input: Let's take a look again at this footage of the situation of dealing with the current scene.


Input: Ah, according to our understanding of the situation, the Beijing Municipal Construction Commission, ah, the Communication Commission, ah, and telecommunication, traffic, and other departments have assigned personnel to participate in emergency repair work.

the Beijing Municipal Construction Commission

the Communication Commission


Input: Relevant departments said that they will adopt a full range of measures to minimize the level of impact on people's daily lives and work, in order to ensure stable order in society during the recovery period.


Input: Well, looking at the government's response to this cave - in accident, ah, we should say it was very prompt with traffic management and emergency repair, ah, because it involved various aspects of life.


Input: Well, ah, Professor Zhou, as this incident involved many departments after it took place, how do you think the various departments should coordinate between themselves?

Zhou


Input: Yes.


Input: This is also --


Input: It is not the case that this problem will be totally solved when one department shows up.


Input: Yes, I think as we build this kind, er, of public, this kind of emergency mechanism for public incidents, ah, has been the, most difficult to resolve, an actual problem that has been the most difficult to resolve among administrative management reforms in various countries.


Input: How many groups of people will be sent?


Input: Many groups.


Input: Yes, this is because social management requires division of labor in society.


Input: It is necessarily a labor division trend that involves many departments, and in addition, a kind of modern management public administration model which is diversified.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: How can cooperation be formed between departments in this kind of situation?


Input: Well, sometimes under normal circumstances, sometimes, we often feel that it is very difficult for departments to cooperate with one another.


Input: For instance, there are too many law enforcement departments and, ah, too many administrative departments, and very often in the end, they are unable to coordinate.


Input: However, this time, through the execution of emergency contingency plans by Beijing Municipality this time, ah, it should be said that the response speed of the different departments of Beijing Municipality, as well as the integrated emergency mechanisms, played a great role.

Beijing Municipality

Beijing Municipality


Input: Hence, I think this was also a kind of, er, trial of interdepartmental cooperation mechanisms.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: It was a very successful, er, response.


Input: I think many good things can be summed up from this.


Input: Yes.


Input: Yang Yang, based on your understanding, ah, as pipes that directly affect many common people's lives were damaged after the accident, based on your understanding of the situation, how was remedial work carried out?

Yang Yang


Input: For instance, it is very cold during winter in Beijing, and the temperature last night dropped to one of the lowest points recently.

Beijing

last night

one


Input: Er, heating pipes were indeed damaged.


Input: Well, at the time, it affected residents living in an area of about 70,000 square meters of Beijing.

about 70,000 square meters

Beijing


Input: Well,, in this regard, the Chaoyang district government did a very good job.

Chaoyang


Input: After it, er, received this order from the municipal government, it immediately sent, electric heaters to residents in more than 200 households within this area.

more than 200


Input: It should be said that many residents spent quite a warm night at home yesterday.

yesterday


Input: Well, furthermore, in the emergency repair process, ah, it should be said that the heating pipeline was restored relatively quickly.


Input: Hence, over here, I think the municipal government, ah, including sub-district offices, made a lot of effort to take good care of resident households.


Input: I think it was done in a very humanitarian manner.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Uh-huh.


Input: Professor Zhou, actually for such a large scale city as Beijing that has more than 14 million people, ah, for such a big city, a suddenly occurring public emergency like this should be said to be relatively common.

Zhou

Beijing

more than 14 million


Input: Yes.


Input: I think it should be unexpected yet at the same time within expectations.


Input: For instance, we see that other, er, domestic and overseas cities have experienced similar incidents.


Input: Perhaps many overseas cities have had such kind of thing before.


Input: This is because a city is a gathering place for modern life.


Input: It is a highly civilized place, as well as, however, in fact a gathering point for various conflicts, social, economic, security, various aspects of conflict.


Input: Hence it is not at all surprising for such an accident to occur.


Input: The critical thing is --


Input: But the critical thing is how emergency plans are activated after the occurrence of such accidents, and for a city, this is a test of its response capabilities.


Input: Yes.


Input: Yes.


Input: Yes, I think through a few incidents that happened in Beijing Municipality over recent years, such as SARS, the snowfall a few years ago, the heavy rains two years ago, and the road cave - in at East Third Ring Road this time, I think it can be seen that Beijing Municipality's response capabilities continued to improve each time.

Beijing Municipality

Beijing Municipality's

recent years

a few years ago

East Third Ring Road


Input: Right.


Input: It can be said that this time, what was done has received favorable comments from everyone.


Input: Um, well, I think, Yang Yang, perhaps you have stronger feelings on this aspect, ah.

Yang Yang


Input: Yes.


Input: Because you often have this kind of direct SMS exchange with listeners.


Input: It is because, we, Beijing Traffic Radio Station, has become a part of emergency planning in Beijing.

Beijing Traffic Radio Station

Beijing


Input: Well, Beijing Traffic Radio Station is to be activated as a media for emergency plans that are grade three and above.

Beijing Traffic Radio Station

three


Input: Well, for instance, as people still vividly remember, at the time of that snowfall just mentioned by Professor Zhou that people still vividly remember, there were no plans.

Zhou


Input: Beijing Municipality still had no emergency plan.

Beijing Municipality


Input: Well, at that time, it happened that I was hosting the Unblocked All the Way program in the studio that evening.

Unblocked All the Way

that evening


Input: Well, at that time, traffic was not at all unblocked.


Input: Ah, at that time there was none of this kind of interaction.


Input: It was not clear, it was very congested.


Input: You sat inside the studio and only knew about the heavy snowfall.


Input: You could find out other news only by telephone.


Input: The various methods and channels were extremely unclear.


Input: Well, later, when we experienced that rainfall in Beijing, that rainfall two years ago, as well as some days of sand storms, all channels and early warning mechanisms were activated in quite an orderly manner.

two years ago


Input: From our perspective as media, I think it was precisely by going through those breaking - in, trials that we could be so calm in handling such an emergency today, ah, and give everyone the most effective announcements and notifications, and instructions.

today