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And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. Michael Gerson, thank you so much for your time today.	and it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out michael gerson thank you so much for your time,	And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out, Michael Gerson thank you so much for your time	and it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. michael gerson, thank you so much for your time today.
Sure.			sure.
We appreciate it. Michael Gerson, a columnist for the Washington Post. Again, his piece ran in that newspaper yesterday.	we appreciate it michael gerson a columnist for the washington post again his piece ran in that newspaper	We appreciate. it Michael Gerson, a columnist for the, Washington Post Again his piece ran in, that newspaper	we appreciate it. michael gerson, a columnist for the washington post. again, his piece ran in that newspaper yesterday.
We did skip over one minor item of political news this week, and that was a declaration by one guy who, well, just might be running a pretty strong race for president of the United States. And that's, of course, Barack Obama who announced in Chicago this week that he is going to be running his campaign out of there, an...	we, did skip over one minor item of political news this week and that. was a declaration by one guy who well just might be running. a pretty strong race for president of the united states and, that's of course, barack obama who announced in chicago this week that he is going to be. running his campaign out of there and...	We did skip over one, minor item of political news this week. and that; was a declaration by one, guy who well just might be running a pretty strong race for president of the United States And. that's of course Barack Obama who announced in Chicago this; week that he is going to be running his campaign out of there and...	we did skip over one minor item of political news this week, and that was a declaration by one guy who, well, just might be running a pretty strong race for president of the united states. and that's, of course, barack obama who announced in chicago this week that he is going to be running his campaign out of there, an...
And, Ken Rudin, we're going to be focusing on this candidate a little bit more as time comes down, but he finds himself interestingly in a better position than he might have thought a couple of months ago.	and ken rudin we're going. to be focusing on this candidate a. little bit, more as time comes down but he finds himself interestingly in a better position than he might have thought a couple of months	And Ken Rudin we're going to be focusing on this candidate a; little bit more as time comes down. but he finds himself interestingly in a better position, than; he might have thought a couple, of months	and, ken rudin, we're going to be focusing on this candidate a little bit more as time comes down, but he finds himself interestingly in a better position than he might have thought a couple of months ago.
Well, that's absolutely true, and the real question for voters in 2012 is whether this is a repeat of 2008 when there was a lot of dissatisfaction in the country on - against the Republicans, against Bush, Iraq and Katrina, things like that, or this kind of dissatisfaction you saw in 2010, when it's directed at Preside...	well that's absolutely. true and the real, question for voters; in 2012 is whether this is a repeat of 2008 when there was a lot of dissatisfaction in the country on - against the republicans against, bush iraq and katrina things like that or this kind of dissatisfaction you saw in 2010, when it's directed. at presiden...	Well, that's absolutely true. and the real question for voters in 2012 is whether this is, a repeat of 2008 when there. was a lot of dissatisfaction in the country on - against the Republicans against Bush Iraq, and Katrina things like that or this kind of dissatisfaction, you saw in 2010, when, it's directed at, Presi...	well, that's absolutely true, and the real question for voters in 2012 is whether this is a repeat of 2008 when there was a lot of dissatisfaction in the country on - against the republicans, against bush, iraq and katrina, things like that, or this kind of dissatisfaction you saw in 2010, when it's directed at preside...
Ken Rudin, our Political Junkie, will be back with us next Wednesday, unless he's in Boise again.	ken rudin our political. junkie will be back with, us next wednesday unless he's in boise	Ken Rudin our Political Junkie will be back with us next Wednesday unless he's in Boise	ken rudin, our political junkie, will be back with us next wednesday, unless he's in boise again.
Thanks, Ken, as always.	thanks ken as	Thanks Ken, as.	thanks, ken, as always.
Thank you, Neal.	thank you	Thank you	thank you, neal.
We heard some discussion of the federal debt and the budget. We're going to continue our series of our conversations about how to reduce or even eliminate it a day after the House budget chair releases his plan. Stay with us for that. I'm Neal Conan. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.	we heard some discussion of the federal debt and the budget we're going to continue our series of our conversations about how to reduce or even eliminate it. a, day after the house budget chair releases his plan stay with us; for that i'm neal conan you're listening to talk of the nation from npr	We heard some discussion of. the. federal debt and the budget We're going to continue our series of our conversations about how to. reduce or even eliminate, it, a day after the House budget, chair releases his plan Stay with us for that I'm Neal Conan, You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR	we heard some discussion of the federal debt and the budget. we're going to continue our series of our conversations about how to reduce or even eliminate it a day after the house budget chair releases his plan. stay with us for that. i'm neal conan. you're listening to talk of the nation from npr news.
This is DAY TO DAY from NPR News. I'm Alex Cohen.	this is day to day from, npr. news i'm alex	This is DAY TO DAY from NPR News, I'm Alex	this is day to day from npr news. i'm alex cohen.
I'm Madeleine Brand.	i'm madeleine	I'm Madeleine	i'm madeleine brand.
Thousands of workers are on strike against GM. Ron Gettelfinger, the president of the United Auto Workers Union, spoke earlier today at a news conference in Detroit.	thousands of. workers; are on strike against gm ron gettelfinger the president of. the united auto workers union spoke earlier today at a news. conference in	Thousands of, workers are on strike against. GM Ron Gettelfinger the president of the United Auto Workers, Union spoke. earlier today at. a news conference in	thousands of workers are on strike against gm. ron gettelfinger, the president of the united auto workers union, spoke earlier today at a news conference in detroit.
The company walked right up to the deadline like they really didn't care. And as a result of that, we called a strike at 11 a.m., Eastern Daylight Time of this morning.	the company walked right up to the deadline like they really didn't care and as a result of that we called a strike at 11 a.m., eastern daylight time of this	The, company walked right up to the deadline like they really; didn't care And as a result of that we. called, a strike at 11 a.m., Eastern Daylight. Time of this	the company walked right up to the deadline like they really didn't care. and as a result of that, we called a strike at 11 a.m., eastern daylight time of this morning.
Joining us now is Joe DeMatio. He's an editor at Automobile Magazine.	joining us now is joe dematio he's an, editor at automobile	Joining us now; is Joe DeMatio He's an editor at Automobile	joining us now is joe dematio. he's an editor at automobile magazine.
And Joe, what is your reaction to news of this general strike?	and joe what is your reaction to news of this general	And Joe what is. your reaction to. news of this general	and joe, what is your reaction to news of this general strike?
I was a little surprised, and I'm certainly disappointed because it's certainly not a good news for Detroit or the Big Three auto industry. I really thought since the negotiations had gone on for about 10 days past the deadline that they were going to hammer out a deal. So a little surprised.	i was a. little surprised and i'm certainly disappointed because it's certainly not a good news for detroit or the big three. auto industry i really; thought since the negotiations had gone on for about 10 days past the deadline that they were going; to hammer out a deal so a little	I was a little surprised and I'm certainly disappointed because it's certainly not a good. news for, Detroit or the Big Three auto industry. I really thought since the negotiations had gone on for about 10 days past the deadline that they were going to. hammer out a deal So a little	i was a little surprised, and i'm certainly disappointed because it's certainly not a good news for detroit or the big three auto industry. i really thought since the negotiations had gone on for about 10 days past the deadline that they were going to hammer out a deal. so a little surprised.
And this is a deal involving health care. Can you give us the details there?	and this is a deal. involving health care can you give us the details	And this is a deal involving health. care Can you give us the details	and this is a deal involving health care. can you give us the details there?
Well, GM wants to shift the obligation for retiree health care costs into a - like an independent fund where they would put in a bunch of money now, and then the UAW would maintain it and continue to fund it over time. And it's a very complicated deal, and I believe - my suspicion is that they have run into roadblocks ...	well gm wants to, shift the obligation for retiree health care costs into a - like an independent, fund where they would put in a bunch, of, money now and then the, uaw would maintain it and continue to, fund it over time and it's a very complicated deal and i believe - my suspicion is, that they have run. into roadblo...	Well GM wants to shift. the obligation, for retiree health care costs; into a - like an independent fund where they would put in a bunch, of money now and then the UAW would; maintain it and continue to fund. it over time. And it's a very complicated deal and I believe - my suspicion is that they have run, into roadblo...	well, gm wants to shift the obligation for retiree health care costs into a - like an independent fund where they would put in a bunch of money now, and then the uaw would maintain it and continue to fund it over time. and it's a very complicated deal, and i believe - my suspicion is that they have run into roadblocks ...
The reason GM wants to do that is because retiree health care accounts for about half of the extra cost that GM incurs in building cars, compared with companies like Toyota. It's about 25 or $30 an hour more in labor cost compared to the Japanese. And about half of that is accounted for by retiree health care.	the reason gm wants to. do that is, because, retiree health care accounts for about half of the extra cost that gm incurs in building cars compared with, companies like toyota it's about 25 or $30 an hour more in labor cost compared to the japanese and about. half of that is accounted for by retiree health	The reason GM, wants to do that is; because retiree health care accounts for about half of the extra cost that GM incurs in building cars compared with companies like Toyota. It's about 25 or $30 an hour more in labor cost compared to the Japanese And about half of that is accounted for by retiree health	the reason gm wants to do that is because retiree health care accounts for about half of the extra cost that gm incurs in building cars, compared with companies like toyota. it's about 25 or $30 an hour more in labor cost compared to the japanese. and about half of that is accounted for by retiree health care.
So the argument from GM is there's no way they can be competitive without doing something about these health care costs.	so the argument, from gm is there's no way they can be competitive without doing something about, these health care	So the argument from GM is there's no way they can be. competitive without doing something about these health care	so the argument from gm is there's no way they can be competitive without doing something about these health care costs.
Exactly.			exactly.
Well, what does this strike mean for GM? It must be losing lot and lots of money each hour the strike goes on.	well what does. this strike mean for gm? it must be losing lot and lots of money each hour the strike goes	Well. what does this strike mean for GM? It must be losing, lot and lots of money each. hour the strike goes	well, what does this strike mean for gm? it must be losing lot and lots of money each hour the strike goes on.
It certainly will. GM has not had a general strike - nationwide strike - since 1970. The last strike it had was in 1998, and that was just against a couple of specific plans, but that completely shut down the whole GM system because that - those plants made parts that were crucial for all of the plants. And - yeah, mon...	it certainly. will gm has not had a general, strike - nationwide strike - since 1970. the last strike it had was in 1998, and that was just. against, a couple of specific, plans. but that completely shut down the whole gm system because that - those plants made parts that were crucial for all of the plants and. - yeah ...	It certainly will GM has not had; a general strike - nationwide strike. - since 1970. The last strike it had, was, in 1998, and that, was, just against a couple of specific plans but. that completely shut. down the whole GM; system because that - those plants made, parts that were crucial. for all of the plants And - y...	it certainly will. gm has not had a general strike - nationwide strike - since 1970. the last strike it had was in 1998, and that was just against a couple of specific plans, but that completely shut down the whole gm system because that - those plants made parts that were crucial for all of the plants. and - yeah, mon...
You know, we can hope at this point that this is the UAW making one final strong statement, pushing for a few last things that didn't come out their way at the bargaining table. And we'll see what they can get, and hopefully tie this up quickly. That's my own personal hope because as time goes on, the money that GM wil...	you. know we, can hope at this point that this is the uaw making one. final strong, statement pushing for a few last things that didn't come out their way at the bargaining table and we'll; see. what they. can get and hopefully tie this up quickly that's my own personal hope because as time goes on the money that gm wi...	You know we can hope at this point that this is the UAW making one final; strong statement pushing for a few last things that didn't. come out their way at the bargaining. table And we'll see what they can. get and hopefully tie this up quickly That's my own personal hope because as time, goes on the money that, GM wil...	you know, we can hope at this point that this is the uaw making one final strong statement, pushing for a few last things that didn't come out their way at the bargaining table. and we'll see what they can get, and hopefully tie this up quickly. that's my own personal hope because as time goes on, the money that gm wil...
What about the other two big auto companies - Ford and Chrysler? How does this affect them?	what about the other two big, auto companies - ford and chrysler? how does this. affect	What about the other two big auto companies - Ford and Chrysler? How does this affect	what about the other two big auto companies - ford and chrysler? how does this affect them?
They're committed as long as they can get these fuels at cost-competitive pricing. So that means that industry is going to have to step up their production and start creating much larger quantities of fuel.	they're committed as, long as they can get these fuels at. cost-competitive pricing. so that means that industry, is going to, have to step up their production and start creating much larger. quantities of,	They're. committed as long as they can get these, fuels at cost-competitive pricing So that. means that industry is going to have to step up their production and start creating much larger quantities of	they're committed as long as they can get these fuels at cost-competitive pricing. so that means that industry is going to have to step up their production and start creating much larger quantities of fuel.
Well, that's a classic chicken and the egg problem.	well that's a classic chicken and the egg.	Well that's a classic chicken and the egg	well, that's a classic chicken and the egg problem.
Tom Todaro is the CEO of Altair, one of the companies that's turning camelina into jet fuel.	tom todaro is the ceo of altair one of the companies that's turning camelina into jet	Tom Todaro is the CEO of Altair one of the companies that's turning camelina into jet	tom todaro is the ceo of altair, one of the companies that's turning camelina into jet fuel.
To build a refinery at scale is hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. If you don't have known customers, you will not ever build that facility.	to build a refinery at scale is hundreds and hundreds of; millions of. dollars if you don't have known customers you will. not ever build that	To build a refinery at scale is hundreds and hundreds, of millions of dollars If you don't have known, customers you will not ever build that	to build a refinery at scale is hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. if you don't have known customers, you will not ever build that facility.
Todaro says larger plants will produce cheaper fuel.	todaro says larger plants will, produce cheaper	Todaro says larger plants will produce cheaper	todaro says larger plants will produce cheaper fuel.
We've demonstrated this works. We're going to demonstrate very, very quickly that it's surprisingly affordable.	we've demonstrated this works we're going to demonstrate very very quickly that it's surprisingly	We've demonstrated this works We're going to demonstrate, very very quickly that it's surprisingly	we've demonstrated this works. we're going to demonstrate very, very quickly that it's surprisingly affordable.
The military isn't the only potential big customer. Airlines want biofuel, too. But Sharon Pinkerton, from the Air Transport Association, says the airlines aren't in financial shape to back a new industry.	the military isn't the only potential, big customer airlines; want biofuel too but sharon pinkerton. from the air transport association says the airlines aren't in financial shape to back a new	The military isn't the only potential big customer Airlines want biofuel too But Sharon Pinkerton from the Air Transport. Association says the airlines aren't in financial shape to back a new	the military isn't the only potential big customer. airlines want biofuel, too. but sharon pinkerton, from the air transport association, says the airlines aren't in financial shape to back a new industry.
We can't get there by ourselves.	we, can't get there by.	We can't get there by,	we can't get there by ourselves.
The federal government is stepping in. It's giving incentives to farmers to start growing camelina. And the departments of Navy, energy and agriculture are planning to invest half a billion dollars in biofuel refineries.	the federal. government is stepping in it's giving incentives to farmers to start growing camelina and; the departments of navy energy and agriculture are planning to invest half a billion dollars in biofuel	The federal government is stepping in, It's giving incentives to farmers to start growing, camelina. And the departments of Navy. energy and agriculture are planning to invest. half. a billion dollars in biofuel	the federal government is stepping in. it's giving incentives to farmers to start growing camelina. and the departments of navy, energy and agriculture are planning to invest half a billion dollars in biofuel refineries.
To flip the line from "Field of Dreams," if the Navy comes, they will build it.	to flip the line from "field of dreams" if. the navy comes they will build	To flip the line from "Field of Dreams" if the Navy comes they will build	to flip the line from "field of dreams," if the navy comes, they will build it.
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus says he's often asked why he's such a big fan of biofuels.	navy, secretary ray, mabus says he's; often asked why; he's such a big fan of	Navy Secretary Ray Mabus says he's often asked why he's. such a big fan of	navy secretary ray mabus says he's often asked why he's such a big fan of biofuels.
The answer is pretty straightforward. We buy too much fossil fuels from potentially or actually volatile places on earth.	the answer is pretty straightforward we buy too much fossil fuels from potentially or actually volatile places on	The answer is pretty straightforward We buy too much fossil fuels from potentially or actually. volatile places on,	the answer is pretty straightforward. we buy too much fossil fuels from potentially or actually volatile places on earth.
Mabus says this leaves the U.S. military vulnerable. That's why he's committed to getting half of the Navy's fuel from renewable sources by 2020.	mabus says this leaves, the u.s military. vulnerable that's why he's, committed to getting half of the navy's fuel from renewable sources by	Mabus says this leaves the. U.S military vulnerable That's, why he's committed to getting half of the Navy's fuel from renewable sources by	mabus says this leaves the u.s. military vulnerable. that's why he's committed to getting half of the navy's fuel from renewable sources by 2020.
Elizabeth Shogren, NPR News.	elizabeth shogren npr,	Elizabeth Shogren. NPR	elizabeth shogren, npr news.