diff --git "a/data/negotiation-10-63-test.json" "b/data/negotiation-10-63-test.json" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/data/negotiation-10-63-test.json" @@ -0,0 +1,25882 @@ +[ + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/0.wav", + "text": "二" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/1.wav", + "text": "一" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/2.wav", + "text": "二" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/3.wav", + "text": "有意見若是柯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/4.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/5.wav", + "text": "修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/6.wav", + "text": "的建議條文原" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15015/7.wav", + "text": "日的委員會中時力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/0.wav", + "text": "會議現在進行併案協商洗錢防制法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/1.wav", + "text": "部分條文修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/2.wav", + "text": "審查會於112年4月27日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/3.wav", + "text": "將行政院提案等3案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/4.wav", + "text": "併案審查完竣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/5.wav", + "text": "審查結果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/6.wav", + "text": "增訂第十五條之1及第十五條之二" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/7.wav", + "text": "提案之關係文書" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/8.wav", + "text": "與會委員如有修正動議或機關有建議內容" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/9.wav", + "text": "請提書面印發現場進行討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/10.wav", + "text": "\n處理增訂第6條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/11.wav", + "text": "\n提案黨團是否要先說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/12.wav", + "text": "還是要請機關代表先回應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/13.wav", + "text": "還是各位沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/14.wav", + "text": "對時代力量黨團提案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/15.wav", + "text": "請黃次長" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/15014/42.wav", + "text": "慢慢來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/43.wav", + "text": "1,000萬元我不贊成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/44.wav", + "text": "而且全部都不要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/45.wav", + "text": "你看以下這些都是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/46.wav", + "text": "冒用政府機關或公務員名義犯之" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/47.wav", + "text": "以電視廣播電子通訊網際網路或其他媒體等傳播工具" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/48.wav", + "text": "對公眾散布而犯之" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/49.wav", + "text": "以電腦合成或其他科技方式" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/50.wav", + "text": "製作關於他人不實影像" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/51.wav", + "text": "聲音或電磁紀錄之方法犯之" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/52.wav", + "text": "假設沒有提高" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/53.wav", + "text": "罰金那我整個案子都不贊成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/54.wav", + "text": "對於這件事你要聽聽民眾的聲音" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/55.wav", + "text": "元啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/56.wav", + "text": "外界不接受我也不接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/57.wav", + "text": "我不協商了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/58.wav", + "text": "那就解散" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/59.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/60.wav", + "text": "\n假如不接受我就不協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/61.wav", + "text": "到院長那邊去並向全民轉播" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/62.wav", + "text": "曾總召的要求" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/63.wav", + "text": "只不過對於提高金額曾總召可能還沒辦法接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/64.wav", + "text": "現在已經因為曾總召的指示" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/65.wav", + "text": "建議啦經過曾總召建議表達" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/66.wav", + "text": "最後提高到1,000萬" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/67.wav", + "text": "元所以法務部是有提高的" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/15014/94.wav", + "text": "柯總召有意見就請他來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/95.wav", + "text": "不然就到院長那邊協商好了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/96.wav", + "text": "\n是不是柯總召有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/97.wav", + "text": "請柯總召來吧" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/98.wav", + "text": "我也支持柯總召要來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/99.wav", + "text": "最後到了院那邊又全部被翻案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/100.wav", + "text": "我昨天真的快要氣炸了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/101.wav", + "text": "我也在這裡表達抗議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/102.wav", + "text": "不然協商完" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/103.wav", + "text": "曾總召你要針對他那" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/104.wav", + "text": "是你跟他的事但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/105.wav", + "text": "我們要就事論事嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/106.wav", + "text": "法務部不是沒有應你的要求提高罰金而" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/107.wav", + "text": "是提高的金額不合你的意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/108.wav", + "text": "應該這樣講才對嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/109.wav", + "text": "召委不是要合我的意而" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/110.wav", + "text": "全民的意啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/111.wav", + "text": "你卻指稱沒提高這就沒道理啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/112.wav", + "text": "那就請柯總召來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/113.wav", + "text": "這個要求合理啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/114.wav", + "text": "叫他來啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/115.wav", + "text": "就邀請他來啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/116.wav", + "text": "會來對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/117.wav", + "text": "\n處理增訂第十五條之2" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/118.wav", + "text": "有委員江永昌等所提修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/119.wav", + "text": "有協商的建議條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/120.wav", + "text": "在4月27日的委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/121.wav", + "text": "中時力黨團原本爭取到第十五條之2" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/122.wav", + "text": "增訂告誡後個案轉介的空間" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/123.wav", + "text": "時力黨團的立場並沒有改變" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/124.wav", + "text": "也就是為了處理日益增加的人頭帳戶" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/125.wav", + "text": "除了增訂人頭帳戶罪之外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/126.wav", + "text": "面對一開始讓人頭帳戶增加的社會經濟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/127.wav", + "text": "還有結構等因素" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/128.wav", + "text": "所以不能只靠告誡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/129.wav", + "text": "不能當人頭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/130.wav", + "text": "遠離各種犯罪情境" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/131.wav", + "text": "等其他樣態要打破這樣的惡性循環" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/132.wav", + "text": "需要更多行動" + }, + 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}, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/146.wav", + "text": "可能處罰的對象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/147.wav", + "text": "有很大機率就是這一群人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/148.wav", + "text": "我們希望國家做的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/149.wav", + "text": "也不限於既有社會救助法的補助" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/150.wav", + "text": "受到告誡之觸法者的經濟困境" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/151.wav", + "text": "在他們因為同樣經濟理由" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/152.wav", + "text": "再次違法前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/153.wav", + "text": "從復權角度建立機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/154.wav", + "text": "盡可能從經濟或生活必需品" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/155.wav", + "text": "安置就業教育訓練投資等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/156.wav", + "text": "各方面介入支援" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/157.wav", + "text": "協助他們穩定經濟生活" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/158.wav", + "text": "遠離犯罪情境" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/159.wav", + "text": "在現行體制下能採取的措施有限" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/160.wav", + "text": "也牽涉到社會救助法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/161.wav", + "text": "以及國家整體社會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/162.wav", + "text": "勞動政策本身的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/163.wav", + "text": "但我們認為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/164.wav", + "text": "至少要將這樣的理念" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/165.wav", + "text": "這樣的政策方向入法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/166.wav", + "text": "不然只能眼睜睜地看著一個人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/167.wav", + "text": "滑落社會安全網" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/168.wav", + "text": "也造成更大的社會成本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/169.wav", + "text": "\n在能夠預防的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/170.wav", + "text": "預防於經���上倫理上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/171.wav", + "text": "都是更合理的選擇" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/172.wav", + "text": "所以時力黨團建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/173.wav", + "text": "第十五條之2還是先保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/174.wav", + "text": "誠摯希望相關部會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/175.wav", + "text": "我們不會要求一步到位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/176.wav", + "text": "但是我們應該更積極地討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/177.wav", + "text": "以上是時力黨團的意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/178.wav", + "text": "通報機制與社會救助機制的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/179.wav", + "text": "還有衛福部等相關機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/180.wav", + "text": "已經有機制處理所以對於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/181.wav", + "text": "這項處分特別在洗錢防制法中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/182.wav", + "text": "至於詳細理由" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/183.wav", + "text": "衛福部有來嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/184.wav", + "text": "沒有嘛衛福部沒有來喔" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/185.wav", + "text": "他們表示的意見就是我剛才向各位委員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/186.wav", + "text": "沒有必要為了告誡這件事" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/187.wav", + "text": "特別在洗錢法制法裡加以規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/188.wav", + "text": "我也希望法務部把這個意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/189.wav", + "text": "帶回給相關部會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/190.wav", + "text": "\n請賴委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/191.wav", + "text": "在等待柯總召的時間" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/192.wav", + "text": "的問題畢竟這種對象當然也不希望再犯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/193.wav", + "text": "是大家可以討論的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/194.wav", + "text": "但是針對現行做法除了保護權益之外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/195.wav", + "text": "在現有犯罪的偵查程序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/196.wav", + "text": "中他們也很想知道怎麼樣保護自己" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/197.wav", + "text": "當然也可以選擇向" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/198.wav", + "text": "由於檢察官已針對這起個案成立專案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/199.wav", + "text": "所以檢察官會指揮相關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/200.wav", + "text": "全力偵查這起個案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/201.wav", + "text": "然檢察官手上就有了被害人的資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/202.wav", + "text": "所以無論是到司法警察機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/203.wav", + "text": "或到檢察機關提起告訴告發" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/204.wav", + "text": "最後都會回到專責檢察官手上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/205.wav", + "text": "我就第一部分這樣向委員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/206.wav", + "text": "\n第二部分是如何避免脫產針對這起" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/207.wav", + "text": "包括主謀已有5人被羈押" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/208.wav", + "text": "在內檢察官都已查扣所得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/209.wav", + "text": "如果有其他犯罪所得只要是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/210.wav", + "text": "可以扣押的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/211.wav", + "text": "產如果被害人發現自己的財產" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/212.wav", + "text": "也可以向檢察官說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/213.wav", + "text": "檢察官會馬上第一時間查扣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/214.wav", + "text": "還有一個建議就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/215.wav", + "text": "就是檢調能不能建立" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/216.wav", + "text": "他們希望有個網頁可以直接登打" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/217.wav", + "text": "到時候你們可以就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/218.wav", + "text": "就查扣公司資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/219.wav", + "text": "這部分可不可以研議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/220.wav", + "text": "但還要一一打電話提醒這些受害者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/221.wav", + "text": "登記所以是否可以建立登記" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/222.wav", + "text": "這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/223.wav", + "text": "研議看看好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/224.wav", + "text": "這要再研議看看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/225.wav", + "text": "偵查中案件如果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/226.wav", + "text": "由於那些資料都是被害犯罪情節" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/227.wav", + "text": "擔心有資訊外洩" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/228.wav", + "text": "可能會有這個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/229.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/230.wav", + "text": "你們研議看看好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/231.wav", + "text": "也在第一時間" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/232.wav", + "text": "指出已下令全國各地檢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/233.wav", + "text": "如果受理這起個案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/234.wav", + "text": "都要集中到北檢做專案處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/235.wav", + "text": "其實臺高檢在第一時間發布的新聞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/236.wav", + "text": "就有做出這樣的呼籲了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/237.wav", + "text": "我相信國人與全國各地檢署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/238.wav", + "text": "都已經知道這個情形" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/239.wav", + "text": "如果各地檢署受理到相關案件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/240.wav", + "text": "都會集中到臺北地檢署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/241.wav", + "text": "專案檢察官手上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/242.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/243.wav", + "text": "但或許次長也可以發個新聞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/244.wav", + "text": "官如果收到類似狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/245.wav", + "text": "內部公告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/246.wav", + "text": "在第一時間點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/247.wav", + "text": "已經發布新聞稿" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/248.wav", + "text": "好謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/249.wav", + "text": "先保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/250.wav", + "text": "\n現在休息5分鐘" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/251.wav", + "text": "經過冗長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/252.wav", + "text": "冗長的協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/253.wav", + "text": "作以下宣告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/254.wav", + "text": "對增訂第十五條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/255.wav", + "text": "增訂第十五條之" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/256.wav", + "text": "本日協商過程公開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/257.wav", + "text": "發言內容均已錄音錄影並列入紀錄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/258.wav", + "text": "討論過程中有共識之部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/259.wav", + "text": "作為後續協商依據" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/260.wav", + "text": "因仍有條文內容" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/261.wav", + "text": "留待繼續溝通" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/262.wav", + "text": "依例不做結論簽名" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/263.wav", + "text": "後續依立法院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/264.wav", + "text": "職權行使法第十二章" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/265.wav", + "text": "相關規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/266.wav", + "text": "另定期繼續協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15014/267.wav", + "text": "散會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/0.wav", + "text": "繼續研商再生醫療法草案再生醫療製劑條例草案二案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1.wav", + "text": "(民進黨黨團提議)" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2.wav", + "text": "案(時代力量黨團提議)" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/3.wav", + "text": ")三研商文化創意產業發展法部分條文修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/4.wav", + "text": "等案(民進黨黨團提議)" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/5.wav", + "text": "首先介紹衛生福利部部長薛瑞元先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/6.wav", + "text": "農業部交" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/7.wav", + "text": "在進行協商前有關本次協商之再生醫療法草案等案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/8.wav", + "text": "委員會召委吳玉琴委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/9.wav", + "text": "於4月21日及26日分別召集黨團協商時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/10.wav", + "text": "保留行政院提案第3條第9條第十一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/11.wav", + "text": "共七條條文其餘條文均獲得協商共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/12.wav", + "text": "因此為爭取立法時效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/13.wav", + "text": "本案援例徵詢各位協商代表同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/14.wav", + "text": "本次協商擬從上述之保留條文先進行討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/15.wav", + "text": "已在委員會完成協商之條文仍有異議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/16.wav", + "text": "在事後討論時再行進行處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/17.wav", + "text": "請問各位委員代表有沒有異議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/18.wav", + "text": "有異議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/19.wav", + "text": "我們今天還有提修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/20.wav", + "text": "我們先將保留條文討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/21.wav", + "text": "大家有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/22.wav", + "text": "我要請衛福部解釋" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/23.wav", + "text": "再生醫療製劑及再生醫療技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/24.wav", + "text": "因為在委員會已經講得很清楚即" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/25.wav", + "text": "應該要在說明欄寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/26.wav", + "text": "的部分細胞到底是自體細胞異體細胞異種細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/27.wav", + "text": "這也要寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/28.wav", + "text": "且異種細胞異體細胞的風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/29.wav", + "text": "也要在說明欄裡面寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/30.wav", + "text": "本來有討論協調的文字都不見了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/31.wav", + "text": "我只好請衛福部從頭再說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/32.wav", + "text": "那麼民眾如何區分何謂再生醫療製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/33.wav", + "text": "何謂再生醫療技���" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/34.wav", + "text": "為什麼技術可以去治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/35.wav", + "text": "就是說再生醫療技術是一種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/36.wav", + "text": "你現在都不放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/37.wav", + "text": "全部都拿掉了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/38.wav", + "text": "我要請衛福部說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/39.wav", + "text": "這樣子我們要怎麼瞭解" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/40.wav", + "text": "我先提出第一個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/41.wav", + "text": "\n我要先跟院長抱歉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/42.wav", + "text": "因為之前在協商討論過的東西" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/43.wav", + "text": "現在衛福部全部拿掉了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/44.wav", + "text": "所以今天我們需要院長主持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/45.wav", + "text": "才能夠對關心的大眾有一個交代" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/46.wav", + "text": "謝謝院長還有各位黨鞭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/47.wav", + "text": "鞭我們先針對第3條發言" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/48.wav", + "text": "再生技術部分其實我們也知道這個是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/49.wav", + "text": "使用經體外培養增殖或衍生的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/50.wav", + "text": "其實它也具有高風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/51.wav", + "text": "高技術門檻的特性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/52.wav", + "text": "大家比較有討論的一個地方" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/53.wav", + "text": "所以在使用的受體上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/54.wav", + "text": "頗有爭議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/55.wav", + "text": "而且再生醫療產業鏈" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/56.wav", + "text": "相對來講比較長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/57.wav", + "text": "也非常專業分工" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/58.wav", + "text": "其實要仰賴醫療機構跟生技產業" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/59.wav", + "text": "這部分確實要把它明定清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/60.wav", + "text": "衛福部也要講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/61.wav", + "text": "是不是要侷限在再生醫療的領域" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/62.wav", + "text": "並與一般性的生技醫藥產業有所區別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/63.wav", + "text": "這個部分我們認為應該要配合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/64.wav", + "text": "生技醫藥產業發展條例第4條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/65.wav", + "text": "合併討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/66.wav", + "text": "外明定再生醫療生技醫藥公司的定義" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/67.wav", + "text": "非常多的一個爭議點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/68.wav", + "text": "進行這個討論的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/69.wav", + "text": "以上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/70.wav", + "text": "本條例第3條第1款已經講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/71.wav", + "text": "再生醫療是指利用基因細胞及其衍生物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/72.wav", + "text": "用以治療修復或替代人體細胞組織及器官之製劑或技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/73.wav", + "text": "所以包括兩部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/74.wav", + "text": "一個是製劑一個是技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/75.wav", + "text": "第3款規定再生醫療技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/76.wav", + "text": "指於人體執行再生醫療之技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/77.wav", + "text": "但不包括下列技術在內" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/78.wav", + "text": "這些技術其實要寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/79.wav", + "text": "包含輸血是輸血的技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/80.wav", + "text": "部長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/81.wav", + "text": "部長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/82.wav", + "text": "再來第3款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/83.wav", + "text": "周邊血造血幹細胞移植統統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/84.wav", + "text": "統統要加技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/85.wav", + "text": "還有人工生殖技術是不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/86.wav", + "text": "都是技術吧" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/87.wav", + "text": "這樣清不清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/88.wav", + "text": "我覺得恐怕真的要寫清楚一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/89.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/90.wav", + "text": "就是第3款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/91.wav", + "text": "但那個東西恐怕要寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/92.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/93.wav", + "text": "請柯總" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/94.wav", + "text": "剛才陳椒華委員發言" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/95.wav", + "text": "表示上次協商已經有共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/96.wav", + "text": "為什麼又拿下來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/97.wav", + "text": "我就針對這個程序性問題先談" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/98.wav", + "text": "沒有人簽名" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/99.wav", + "text": "只是在協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/100.wav", + "text": "討論包括第3條說明欄要不要改等等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/101.wav", + "text": "怎麼會說拿起來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/102.wav", + "text": "呢因為後來第二次協商時爭辯得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/103.wav", + "text": "辯得很厲害" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/104.wav", + "text": "所以後來吳" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/105.wav", + "text": "玉琴委員就送院長協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/106.wav", + "text": "這個問題我們要先釐清" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/107.wav", + "text": "這是第一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/108.wav", + "text": "\n邱臣遠委員講的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/109.wav", + "text": "有關生技醫藥產業發展條例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/110.wav", + "text": "它的前身是生技新藥" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/111.wav", + "text": "產業發展條例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/112.wav", + "text": "那是在2004年的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/113.wav", + "text": "後來這個法也落日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/114.wav", + "text": "它是針對整個生技醫藥產業" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/115.wav", + "text": "當然包括再生醫療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/116.wav", + "text": "他們跟本法的關聯度是不高" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/117.wav", + "text": "生技醫藥產業發展條例是有通過的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/118.wav", + "text": "我們現在回到主題就是再生醫療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/119.wav", + "text": "再生醫療製劑的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/120.wav", + "text": "應該是比較沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/121.wav", + "text": "這個部分有保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/122.wav", + "text": "若干條款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/123.wav", + "text": "看起來保留也是越來越多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/124.wav", + "text": "我們就逐條來討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/125.wav", + "text": "並沒有剛才所談的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/126.wav", + "text": "講好又拿起來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/127.wav", + "text": "沒有這回事" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/128.wav", + "text": "我先簡單補充一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/129.wav", + "text": "幾個簡單的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/130.wav", + "text": "第一個剛剛邱臣遠" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/131.wav", + "text": "生技醫藥產業發展條例第4條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/132.wav", + "text": "再生醫療生技醫藥公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/133.wav", + "text": "這個醫藥公司本來就有參照" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/134.wav", + "text": "生技醫藥產業發展條例的第4條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/135.wav", + "text": "是廣泛的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/136.wav", + "text": "因為是再生醫療法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/137.wav", + "text": "也參照第4條的寫法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/138.wav", + "text": "有做一些修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/139.wav", + "text": "依公司法設立的公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/140.wav", + "text": "所從事的項目" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/141.wav", + "text": "研發製造或受託開發製造" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/142.wav", + "text": "與再生醫療相關製劑或技術之公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/143.wav", + "text": "這已經是參照第4條來做處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/144.wav", + "text": "這是第一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/145.wav", + "text": "\n第二點回答曾銘宗委員的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/146.wav", + "text": "問題就是下列技術不包括在內" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/147.wav", + "text": "這四款包括輸血使用血液製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/148.wav", + "text": "周邊血造血幹細胞移植" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/149.wav", + "text": "等這幾個都是醫學已經常用的專有名詞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/150.wav", + "text": "我們都沒有在後面加技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/151.wav", + "text": "可是我們醫療這邊都認為它是一個技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/152.wav", + "text": "因為它已經算是常規在使用的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/153.wav", + "text": "維持原本的寫法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/154.wav", + "text": "\n再來回答陳椒華委員的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/155.wav", + "text": "為什麼文字的部分我們呈現的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/156.wav", + "text": "回到原本院版的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/157.wav", + "text": "然後我要再補充陳椒華委員希望我們解釋一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/158.wav", + "text": "製劑跟技術有什麼差別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/159.wav", + "text": "是指我們使用體外培養的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/160.wav", + "text": "這個細胞沒有去做一些再處理的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/161.wav", + "text": "它只是做一個增殖或衍生的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/162.wav", + "text": "因為它具有一些風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/163.wav", + "text": "它真的是小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/164.wav", + "text": "要客製化為這個病人來做處理至" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/165.wav", + "text": "於我們平常使用的製劑的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/166.wav", + "text": "可能會使用到譬如說像抗生素" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/167.wav", + "text": "就是針對這個病人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/168.wav", + "text": "所以技術跟製劑的差別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/169.wav", + "text": "一個是比較大批商品化的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/170.wav", + "text": "另一個是客製化的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/171.wav", + "text": "我們以此來做一個區別以上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/172.wav", + "text": "或是委員會協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/173.wav", + "text": "大家對本文的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/174.wav", + "text": "其實沒有太多的爭議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/175.wav", + "text": "比較多的是我們是不是應該" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/176.wav", + "text": "所謂的再生製劑指的是商品化" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/177.wav", + "text": "規格化這種標準比較一致的情況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/178.wav", + "text": "然後再生技術是指規模比較小" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/179.wav", + "text": "或是客製化的部分不屬於製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/180.wav", + "text": "或者是我們也曾經提到的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/181.wav", + "text": "在這個異體或是異種的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/182.wav", + "text": "並不是說不應該" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/183.wav", + "text": "當我們在使用這樣的技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/184.wav", + "text": "或是這樣的來源的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/185.wav", + "text": "應該要符合原本現在就有的規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/186.wav", + "text": "現在提到的申請或是作業規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/187.wav", + "text": "其實都是現在既有的規範了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/188.wav", + "text": "我們是不是應該在說明欄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/189.wav", + "text": "說得更加清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/190.wav", + "text": "讓大家不至於有不同的理解或是誤會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/191.wav", + "text": "所以在這個說明欄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/192.wav", + "text": "既然剛才司長解釋" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/193.wav", + "text": "那麼似乎把它寫上去並沒有什麼疑慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/194.wav", + "text": "所以我們還是希望" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/195.wav", + "text": "在說明欄的部分可以支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/196.wav", + "text": "時代力量黨團的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/197.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/198.wav", + "text": "請陳椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/199.wav", + "text": "是時力在第3條的說明欄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/200.wav", + "text": "就是希望能夠讓說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/201.wav", + "text": "誠如行政院版的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/202.wav", + "text": "再生技術是使用的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/203.wav", + "text": "高技術門檻" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/204.wav", + "text": "的我們知道它是高風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/205.wav", + "text": "中我們是希望把剛剛司長也有提到的小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/206.wav", + "text": "就是再生技術所使用的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/207.wav", + "text": "是小規模客製化的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/208.wav", + "text": "另外因為它是高風險的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/209.wav", + "text": "��細胞治療人體試驗申請" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/210.wav", + "text": "與操作規範中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/211.wav", + "text": "也是明定細胞包括自體異體及異種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/212.wav", + "text": "我們今天可以用的再生技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/213.wav", + "text": "就是包括所有的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/214.wav", + "text": "即自體異體及異種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/215.wav", + "text": "又因為是高風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/216.wav", + "text": "高技術門檻的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/217.wav", + "text": "所以我們希望能夠在說明欄裡寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/218.wav", + "text": "要符合前衛生署92年公布的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/219.wav", + "text": "體細胞治療人體試驗申請與操作規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/220.wav", + "text": "\n假如今天說明欄沒有把這些文字放進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/221.wav", + "text": "表示我們這個法是很寬鬆的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/222.wav", + "text": "使用豬的細胞牛的細胞兔子的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/223.wav", + "text": "任何其他哺乳類的細胞還有異體的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/224.wav", + "text": "高風險就是免疫排斥與基因轉移" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/225.wav", + "text": "比如豬的基因" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/226.wav", + "text": "身上之後會不會因為到人的基因上而導" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/227.wav", + "text": "而這個風險我們應該寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/228.wav", + "text": "也就是要符合前衛生署的規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/229.wav", + "text": "讓我們所進行的再生技術是安全的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/230.wav", + "text": "是高品質的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/231.wav", + "text": "現在我們看到衛福部給我們的都沒有寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/232.wav", + "text": "如果沒有寫那要如何保證這是安全的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/233.wav", + "text": "在原本第3條文字將" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/234.wav", + "text": "將技術跟製劑分開處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/235.wav", + "text": "尤其是這邊所提到的再生技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/236.wav", + "text": "是體外培養所增殖或衍生之細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/237.wav", + "text": "這就已經是客製化" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/238.wav", + "text": "因為你不會把別人的細胞複製之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/239.wav", + "text": "打在第二個人身上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/240.wav", + "text": "這會引起排斥所以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/241.wav", + "text": "至於小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/242.wav", + "text": "上次在委員會協商時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/243.wav", + "text": "我就提到所謂的小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/244.wav", + "text": "在法律文字上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/245.wav", + "text": "到底是幾顆細胞叫小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/246.wav", + "text": "治療幾次叫小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/247.wav", + "text": "這樣的文字下去之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/248.wav", + "text": "只是徒具形式" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/249.wav", + "text": "尤其是在臨床或執行的技術端" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/250.wav", + "text": "對醫療人員來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/251.wav", + "text": "可能會不知道可以怎麼做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/252.wav", + "text": "因為不知道這樣做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/253.wav", + "text": "到底是不是小規模" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/254.wav", + "text": "\n再來剛剛椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/255.wav", + "text": "提的我還是肯定椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/256.wav", + "text": "他其實很認真地找了很多資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/257.wav", + "text": "可是我發現你判讀可能有一點問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/258.wav", + "text": "因為在2003年11月4日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/259.wav", + "text": "衛署醫字第0920202477號公告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/260.wav", + "text": "就是你剛剛所說的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/261.wav", + "text": "體細胞治療人體試驗申請與操作規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/262.wav", + "text": "你可以看到其中所提到的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/263.wav", + "text": "體細胞療法的定義" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/264.wav", + "text": "就提到這裡所規範的體細胞療法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/265.wav", + "text": "同種異體或異種異體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/266.wav", + "text": "也就是你一直強調異種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/267.wav", + "text": "是不可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/268.wav", + "text": "但是在這邊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/269.wav", + "text": "它就放在體細胞治療裡面的其中一種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/270.wav", + "text": "你剛剛說會造成影響" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/271.wav", + "text": "其實可能有點不曉得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/272.wav", + "text": "因為第二頁就有提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/273.wav", + "text": "確保生物安全性及公共衛生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/274.wav", + "text": "是避免在做這些培養過程中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/275.wav", + "text": "污染到外面的環境" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/276.wav", + "text": "所以在這個過程裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/277.wav", + "text": "應有事先防範及確保研究人員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/278.wav", + "text": "工作環境及週圍之安全" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/279.wav", + "text": "\n92年的申請與操作規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/280.wav", + "text": "如果從這個文字上來看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/281.wav", + "text": "第一本來在民國92年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/282.wav", + "text": "就有提到體細胞治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/283.wav", + "text": "同種異體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/284.wav", + "text": "異種異體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/285.wav", + "text": "第二個事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/286.wav", + "text": "在這邊所提到的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/287.wav", + "text": "其所確保的生物安全性及公共衛生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/288.wav", + "text": "不是打進去那個人的生物安全性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/289.wav", + "text": "所提的是不要在實驗室" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/290.wav", + "text": "做這些mix的過程中散出去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/291.wav", + "text": "而造成後續一些" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/292.wav", + "text": "我們講的人工做出來的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/293.wav", + "text": "導致環境的污染" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/294.wav", + "text": "就像我們2020年在提的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/295.wav", + "text": "所謂的COVID-19" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/296.wav", + "text": "是不是實驗室病毒" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/297.wav", + "text": "在實驗過程逸散" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/298.wav", + "text": "那個是在講實驗室管理規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/299.wav", + "text": "這個標題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/300.wav", + "text": "它叫做人體試驗申請與操作規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/301.wav", + "text": "這是規範實驗室不要把細胞污染到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/302.wav", + "text": "不是你要實施的那個對象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/303.wav", + "text": "跑到外面來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/304.wav", + "text": "以上補充謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/305.wav", + "text": "看起來這一條大家意見很多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/306.wav", + "text": "都不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/307.wav", + "text": "是不是我們依照行政院版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/308.wav", + "text": "院長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/309.wav", + "text": "動物的細胞打到人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/310.wav", + "text": "會有風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/311.wav", + "text": "麻煩院長請衛福部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/312.wav", + "text": "說明一下好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/313.wav", + "text": "我先說一下好嗎我要幫醫生講個話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/314.wav", + "text": "不會有醫生自己去抽一個動物細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/315.wav", + "text": "不用做任何P就可以打到人身上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/316.wav", + "text": "不要這樣我們不是怪醫秦博士好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/317.wav", + "text": "是不同人的細胞使用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/318.wav", + "text": "還有不同動物的細胞使用在人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/319.wav", + "text": "會不會有風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/320.wav", + "text": "這邊要寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/321.wav", + "text": "到底有什麼樣的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/322.wav", + "text": "好不好可不可以請衛福部說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/323.wav", + "text": "請部長說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/324.wav", + "text": "院長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/325.wav", + "text": "這個是為國人的健康把關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/326.wav", + "text": "你不讓他說清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/327.wav", + "text": "那就是把國人當白老鼠" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/328.wav", + "text": "如果大家意見還是不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/329.wav", + "text": "我們請他說清楚好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/330.wav", + "text": "因為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/331.wav", + "text": "如果他還沒說清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/332.wav", + "text": "你不能講行政院版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/333.wav", + "text": "一定會害人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/334.wav", + "text": "沒有沒有沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/335.wav", + "text": "院長我們拜託你" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/336.wav", + "text": "這些技術都是新的技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/337.wav", + "text": "不管是剛剛陳委員提到的異種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/338.wav", + "text": "當然都會有一些風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/339.wav", + "text": "都有可能包括陳委員剛剛提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/340.wav", + "text": "等等這些問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/341.wav", + "text": "所以第一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/342.wav", + "text": "因為排斥它可能會不成功" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/343.wav", + "text": "因為排斥" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/344.wav", + "text": "可能會產生不良的作用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/345.wav", + "text": "這個問題要怎麼處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/346.wav", + "text": "一定是在進行這些技術之前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/347.wav", + "text": "必須要經過人體試驗" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/348.wav", + "text": "這就是我們這部法規定的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/349.wav", + "text": "你必須要先做人體試驗" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/350.wav", + "text": "人體試驗有了一個結果之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/351.wav", + "text": "來申請我們才會核定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/352.wav", + "text": "可能產生排斥現象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/353.wav", + "text": "跟各位委員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/354.wav", + "text": "不要講說這麼小的一個細胞治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/355.wav", + "text": "大到像心臟的移植" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/356.wav", + "text": "都有可以抗排斥的藥物來處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/357.wav", + "text": "並不是無解" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/358.wav", + "text": "還是有解的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/359.wav", + "text": "但是必須要去做試驗" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/360.wav", + "text": "才能夠知道可不可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/361.wav", + "text": "所做的結果是好的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/362.wav", + "text": "來申請我們才有可能通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/363.wav", + "text": "我們已經討論很多次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/364.wav", + "text": "了我想先確認一下現在的狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/365.wav", + "text": "現在的狀況是各黨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/366.wav", + "text": "對第3條條文本身" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/367.wav", + "text": "其實沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/368.wav", + "text": "現在是對現在還是會有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/369.wav", + "text": "講清楚就會有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/370.wav", + "text": "沒講清楚我就會有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/371.wav", + "text": "陳椒華委員請尊重我的發言好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/372.wav", + "text": "包括現在我們手上拿到的修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/373.wav", + "text": "這個修正動議是陳椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/374.wav", + "text": "以時代力量為名提出來的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/375.wav", + "text": "第九版修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/376.wav", + "text": "跟我們之前在協商過程" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/377.wav", + "text": "那麼這樣一版一版下來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/378.wav", + "text": "我們對條文本身的文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/379.wav", + "text": "其實是沒有意見的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/380.wav", + "text": "現在大家是對說明欄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/381.wav", + "text": "有意見如果以剛剛陳委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/382.wav", + "text": "甚至是剛剛醫藥司這邊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/383.wav", + "text": "講的部分的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/384.wav", + "text": "我們中華民國臺灣現在既有的規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/385.wav", + "text": "其實對所謂的異體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/386.wav", + "text": "不過話說回來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/387.wav", + "text": "其實跟它現在的第九版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/388.wav", + "text": "第九次提的修正動議的這個規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/389.wav", + "text": "是我們本來就已經在做的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/390.wav", + "text": "我們在做的工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/391.wav", + "text": "就是應該要遵守" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/392.wav", + "text": "這些已經存在的規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/393.wav", + "text": "這邊有多了一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/394.wav", + "text": "再生製劑為商品化規格化製程加工" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/395.wav", + "text": "的文字反而是藥品這兩個字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/396.wav", + "text": "不是很接近" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/397.wav", + "text": "討論如果這個規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/398.wav", + "text": "是我們現在都已經在做的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/399.wav", + "text": "也就是說他" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/400.wav", + "text": "只是把現在的東西再寫一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/401.wav", + "text": "跟現行的狀況有沒有差別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/402.wav", + "text": "因為我們的條文本身沒有差但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/403.wav", + "text": "但說明的部分有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/404.wav", + "text": "跟現行的部分又沒差" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/405.wav", + "text": "那寫上去到底有沒有困擾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/406.wav", + "text": "這是第一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/407.wav", + "text": "這兩個字會不會有差別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/408.wav", + "text": "請邱議瑩委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/409.wav", + "text": "我們在委員會協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/410.wav", + "text": "其實大家對第3條的本文是沒有意見的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/411.wav", + "text": "包括林為洲委員也都全程參與" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/412.wav", + "text": "也跟國民黨曾總召報告一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/413.wav", + "text": "對於說明欄的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/414.wav", + "text": "我是不是能夠請衛福部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/415.wav", + "text": "再說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/416.wav", + "text": "就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/417.wav", + "text": "剛剛陳椒華委員的這一版修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/418.wav", + "text": "因為我已經記不清楚是第幾版了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/419.wav", + "text": "你現在是要用這一版來討論的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/420.wav", + "text": "請看一下說明欄的第3項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/421.wav", + "text": "談到異體異種的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/422.wav", + "text": "就我們實際的操作面來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/423.wav", + "text": "有沒有窒礙難行的地方" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/424.wav", + "text": "這是第一個我們想要請問的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/425.wav", + "text": "又寫到再生製劑為商品化規格化製程" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/426.wav", + "text": "加工達一致標準且一致化之藥品" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/427.wav", + "text": "其實再生製劑的定義" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/428.wav", + "text": "在製劑條例的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/429.wav", + "text": "就會把它定義的非常清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/430.wav", + "text": "了這樣的寫法好像跟我們製劑條例裡面的寫法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/431.wav", + "text": "是不是會比較完整" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/432.wav", + "text": "\n第三我想要特別拜託一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/433.wav", + "text": "大家都同意沒有意見的東西" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/434.wav", + "text": "不應該今天在黨政協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/435.wav", + "text": "又拿出來說我等一下還會有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/436.wav", + "text": "我等一下還要再翻案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/437.wav", + "text": "這樣就會沒完沒了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/438.wav", + "text": "每天就一直不斷在這裡無限輪迴" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/439.wav", + "text": "以上也跟院長報告一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/440.wav", + "text": "\n再生醫療不管是技術或者是製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/441.wav", + "text": "劑都必須要拿到藥證" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/442.wav", + "text": "都必須要拿到許可" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/443.wav", + "text": "都必須經過很嚴格的審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/444.wav", + "text": "在衛福部那一端" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/445.wav", + "text": "沒有一個醫生是要害死病人的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/446.wav", + "text": "拿那種沒有經過安全審查藥證的東西" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/447.wav", + "text": "來打到人體裡頭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/448.wav", + "text": "所以不應該在我們處理這個草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/449.wav", + "text": "的時候說我們把它放很鬆" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/450.wav", + "text": "說我們枉顧病人安全" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/451.wav", + "text": "讓網路一天到晚不斷地來霸凌我" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/452.wav", + "text": "霸凌我" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/453.wav", + "text": "我告訴你我不怕你的霸凌" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/454.wav", + "text": "這個案子我弄了六年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/455.wav", + "text": "我是一個癌症的病患" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/456.wav", + "text": "我知道再生醫療技術對癌症的病人有多重要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/457.wav", + "text": "我也知道安全性對一個病人的健康來講有多重要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/458.wav", + "text": "你可以持續不斷地霸凌我" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/459.wav", + "text": "但是我告訴你" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/460.wav", + "text": "我還是要持續地來推這個法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/461.wav", + "text": "從立法技術來看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/462.wav", + "text": "因為第3條是本法用詞定義如下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/463.wav", + "text": "所以再生醫療包括製劑和技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/464.wav", + "text": "製劑的部分很清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/465.wav", + "text": "是指人體執行再生醫療之技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/466.wav", + "text": "但下列技術不包括" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/467.wav", + "text": "其他經中央主管機關公告之技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/468.wav", + "text": "\n也把它排掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/469.wav", + "text": "那我要問" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/470.wav", + "text": "再生醫療技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/471.wav", + "text": "就是假設這五款沒有排掉的部分統統都在裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/472.wav", + "text": "對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/473.wav", + "text": "要先確定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/474.wav", + "text": "喔邱醫師對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/475.wav", + "text": "我外行人看覺得再生醫療技術可能是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/476.wav", + "text": "包山包海" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/477.wav", + "text": "海耶現在只有把這五款拿掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/478.wav", + "text": "對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/479.wav", + "text": "還有一個保留條款是其他經中央主管機關公告之技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/480.wav", + "text": "要排掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/481.wav", + "text": "我的意思是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/482.wav", + "text": "這樣的立法技術有沒有排乾淨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/483.wav", + "text": "不然到時候會出狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/484.wav", + "text": "啊還有這個立法很特殊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/485.wav", + "text": "就是經過行政院公告後不適用的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/486.wav", + "text": "這我還是第一次看到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/487.wav", + "text": "對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/488.wav", + "text": "因為這是但書" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/489.wav", + "text": "但下列技術不包括在內" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/490.wav", + "text": "其他經行政院公告之技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/491.wav", + "text": "這是少見的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/492.wav", + "text": "除了排掉的這五款之外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/493.wav", + "text": "我是外行人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/494.wav", + "text": "但是我覺得可能會排不乾淨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/495.wav", + "text": "它有第5款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/496.wav", + "text": "它說新的技術喔" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/497.wav", + "text": "這個不適用那個不適用這樣很奇怪" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/498.wav", + "text": "嘛我只是好意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/499.wav", + "text": "啦到底有沒有排乾淨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/500.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/501.wav", + "text": "非常敬佩大家對於這麼重要的醫療發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/502.wav", + "text": "人民健康照顧的一個法案如此重視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/503.wav", + "text": "其實我們可以追根究柢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/504.wav", + "text": "來看原來為什麼有這兩個法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/505.wav", + "text": "在衛福部已經有一個特管辦法一直在做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/506.wav", + "text": "就是希望能配合民眾需要醫療在發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/507.wav", + "text": "但也是要嚴格審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/508.wav", + "text": "喔一個一個做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/509.wav", + "text": "有時候都要申請很久" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/510.wav", + "text": "那個技術才可以做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/511.wav", + "text": "申請五年多了現在差不多兩百多項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/512.wav", + "text": "項各個醫療院所都在發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/513.wav", + "text": "特管辦法都在嚴格審查\n" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/514.wav", + "text": "其實這個法只是把特管辦法法律化而已" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/515.wav", + "text": "為什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/516.wav", + "text": "因為其實這五六年來一開始是要做什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/517.wav", + "text": "是要做再生醫療製劑那個法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/518.wav", + "text": "它裡面的重中之重是什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/519.wav", + "text": "是conditionalapproval" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/520.wav", + "text": "就是附加條款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/521.wav", + "text": "原來是講初步療效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/522.wav", + "text": "效後來依我們大家的共識把它變成第二期" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/523.wav", + "text": "它只要經過審查以後就可以出來賣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/524.wav", + "text": "這個就是所謂的再生醫療製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/525.wav", + "text": "劑我倒是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/526.wav", + "text": "也可以邀請陳椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/527.wav", + "text": "其實那個部分是大量生產" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/528.wav", + "text": "至於再生醫療這個部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/529.wav", + "text": "原來特管辦法已經實行了五六年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/530.wav", + "text": "所以我要問一下衛福部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/531.wav", + "text": "特管辦法這五六年來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/532.wav", + "text": "有做得不順暢的嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/533.wav", + "text": "有被人家說不倫理的嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/534.wav", + "text": "有被人家說不安全的嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/535.wav", + "text": "我跟你講我所有服務案件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/536.wav", + "text": "都是說拜託可不可以快一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/537.wav", + "text": "醫院申請了2個月3個月半年都還不下來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/538.wav", + "text": "實在沒有辦法再發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/539.wav", + "text": "病人在那邊等著一個一個要治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/540.wav", + "text": "所以剛才邱議瑩講的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/541.wav", + "text": "是醫師要去做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/542.wav", + "text": "倫理的問題醫師團體要去承擔" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/543.wav", + "text": "講成這樣今天所有一個一個做都不會賺錢的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/544.wav", + "text": "啦\n我舉個例子恩慈療法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/545.wav", + "text": "可是真的需要產業發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/546.wav", + "text": "需要再生醫療製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/547.wav", + "text": "製劑第二期以後去大量製造" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/548.wav", + "text": "那個才是產業商業化" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/549.wav", + "text": "但這是科學的發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/550.wav", + "text": "需要而去研究如果醫院要做這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/551.wav", + "text": "縮小範圍或者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/552.wav", + "text": "的我覺得這對醫療人員是非常不公平" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/553.wav", + "text": "的並且對需要的病人是非常殘忍的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/554.wav", + "text": "現在這個再生醫療法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/555.wav", + "text": "有超越原來特管辦法的範圍嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/556.wav", + "text": "應該沒有嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/557.wav", + "text": "你們的安全有比較放鬆嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/558.wav", + "text": "嚴謹性有比較不好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/559.wav", + "text": "讓醫療院所好好治療病人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/560.wav", + "text": "一直在誣衊我覺得這是不好的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/561.wav", + "text": "我先弄清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/562.wav", + "text": "我發言請你尊重" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/563.wav", + "text": "各位要知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/564.wav", + "text": "用心的治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/565.wav", + "text": "而再生醫療製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/566.wav", + "text": "製劑是針對特定的適應症在治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/567.wav", + "text": "所以完全不一樣的東西" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/568.wav", + "text": "不要用這個製劑把很多名詞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/569.wav", + "text": "應該說技術是什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/570.wav", + "text": "連我都不知道未來有什麼技術啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/571.wav", + "text": "你現在要把技術定義" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/572.wav", + "text": "有這麼厲害嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/573.wav", + "text": "再講一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/574.wav", + "text": "如果沒有共識我們就保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/575.wav", + "text": "因為之前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/576.wav", + "text": "修正動議是要放在條文裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/577.wav", + "text": "你講的那個不是事實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/578.wav", + "text": "不包括異種細胞是你要求的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/579.wav", + "text": "不是啦我先講完嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/580.wav", + "text": "後來我覺得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/581.wav", + "text": "如果放在說明可以的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/582.wav", + "text": "對於本文就可以同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/583.wav", + "text": "但是現在說明也沒有放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/584.wav", + "text": "所以對本文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/585.wav", + "text": "我就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/586.wav", + "text": "要求不包括異種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/587.wav", + "text": "要放進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/588.wav", + "text": "並不是說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/589.wav", + "text": "這是第一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/590.wav", + "text": "\n第二個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/591.wav", + "text": "到底跟特管一不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/592.wav", + "text": "這當然跟特管不一樣啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/593.wav", + "text": "因為今天行政院版本在第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/594.wav", + "text": "初步有療效就可以用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/595.wav", + "text": "也不需要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/596.wav", + "text": "剛剛有委員說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/597.wav", + "text": "技術跟製劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/598.wav", + "text": "製劑都要有許可" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/599.wav", + "text": "不對啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/600.wav", + "text": "有初步療效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/601.wav", + "text": "根本不需要有許可就可以用啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/602.wav", + "text": "所以今天第9條就是一個大後門嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/603.wav", + "text": "因為第9條是大後門" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/604.wav", + "text": "第3條就很有問題你" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/605.wav", + "text": "你異體跟異種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/606.wav", + "text": "我們講話要照實在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/607.wav", + "text": "我還沒有發言完" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/608.wav", + "text": "什麼亂講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/609.wav", + "text": "我今天可以公開辯論啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/610.wav", + "text": "你隨便誹謗人家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/611.wav", + "text": "我們可以公開辯論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/612.wav", + "text": "看你敢不敢來辯論啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/613.wav", + "text": "到底誰霸凌誰啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/614.wav", + "text": "誰在罵誰啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/615.wav", + "text": "院長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/616.wav", + "text": "你要主持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/617.wav", + "text": "把國人當白老鼠的法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/618.wav", + "text": "等一下我要求" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/619.wav", + "text": "我們沒有講清楚的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/620.wav", + "text": "我們絕對不可以隨便保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/621.wav", + "text": "我反對陳椒華亂扣帽子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/622.wav", + "text": "什麼叫把國人當白老鼠" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/623.wav", + "text": "我們找專家學者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/624.wav", + "text": "啊我們衛福部要講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/625.wav", + "text": "為什麼動物細胞可以打在人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/626.wav", + "text": "身上你在說明欄裡面都不願意講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/627.wav", + "text": "為什麼第9條規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/628.wav", + "text": "初步療效就可以用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/629.wav", + "text": "什麼叫初步療效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/630.wav", + "text": "你自己剛剛說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/631.wav", + "text": "一定要測試有沒有免疫排斥" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/632.wav", + "text": "但是第9條放得這麼鬆" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/633.wav", + "text": "只要有初步療效就可以用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/634.wav", + "text": "而動物細胞的部分你到底要做多少的試驗" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/635.wav", + "text": "才能保證是沒有初步療效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/636.wav", + "text": "這是一個非常大的漏洞啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/637.wav", + "text": "委員讓我講一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/638.wav", + "text": "我知道你的意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/639.wav", + "text": "所以我們今天就是把定義講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/640.wav", + "text": "之前衛福部醫事司都同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/641.wav", + "text": "因為目前沒有在用異體細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/642.wav", + "text": "異種細胞只有用自體細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/643.wav", + "text": "所以我們就把它寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/644.wav", + "text": "就是只用自體細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/645.wav", + "text": "就是這麼簡單啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/646.wav", + "text": "我剛好擔任召委" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/647.wav", + "text": "也讓陳椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/648.wav", + "text": "瞭解我們真的很認真在討論法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/649.wav", + "text": "沒有要把病人當白老鼠" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/650.wav", + "text": "再來陳椒華委員對第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/651.wav", + "text": "條文的部分並沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/652.wav", + "text": "但說明欄的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/653.wav", + "text": "希望能增加異種跟異體細胞即" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/654.wav", + "text": "其實一開始他的條文是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/655.wav", + "text": "而今天看到的文字是包含了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/656.wav", + "text": "對此我必須說明的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/657.wav", + "text": "陳椒華委員提到的體細胞治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/658.wav", + "text": "在92年就有這個辦法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/659.wav", + "text": "其實它就包括了異種異體細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/660.wav", + "text": "其實是有的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/661.wav", + "text": "看到的是92年的資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/662.wav", + "text": "但是沒有用啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/663.wav", + "text": "只用自體啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/664.wav", + "text": "就是沒有那些case啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/665.wav", + "text": "陳委員這個技術的發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/666.wav", + "text": "我們不能在這邊就關起門來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/667.wav", + "text": "我看到這至少是92年的資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/668.wav", + "text": "現在經過那麼多年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/669.wav", + "text": "也都在執行沒有限制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/670.wav", + "text": "我的意思是說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/671.wav", + "text": "不是在這邊再框一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/672.wav", + "text": "沒有在執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/673.wav", + "text": "吳委員是第一次講話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/674.wav", + "text": "對我第一次講話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/675.wav", + "text": "而且我是召委" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/676.wav", + "text": "我真的覺得我們的討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/677.wav", + "text": "應該要更對焦" + }, + { + "audio": 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"text": "初步療效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/984.wav", + "text": "由誰來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/985.wav", + "text": "診斷" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/986.wav", + "text": "在執行上會面臨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/987.wav", + "text": "怎麼執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/988.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/989.wav", + "text": "請王委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/990.wav", + "text": "我想跟大家說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/991.wav", + "text": "在委員會審查的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/992.wav", + "text": "其實衛福部有提出修正版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/993.wav", + "text": "也就是現在時代力量的這個版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/994.wav", + "text": "其實當時我們是支持的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/995.wav", + "text": "也認為這樣其實可以比較明確的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/996.wav", + "text": "這些適用的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/997.wav", + "text": "或是嚴重失能的情況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/998.wav", + "text": "符合這些" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/999.wav", + "text": "條件的我們才給予相關的可能性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1000.wav", + "text": "所以我們其實是支持院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1001.wav", + "text": "後來自己主動做修正的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1002.wav", + "text": "但當時在審查會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1003.wav", + "text": "的時候反而是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1004.wav", + "text": "有一些民進黨委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1005.wav", + "text": "我還是認為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1006.wav", + "text": "我們現在這個版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1007.wav", + "text": "自己主動提出來的修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1008.wav", + "text": "是更加明確的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1009.wav", + "text": "因為如果回到最初的院版" + }, + { + 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"audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1023.wav", + "text": "應該是大家的共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1024.wav", + "text": "但申請藥品許可證" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1025.wav", + "text": "這個還是有其他多種考量的因素" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1026.wav", + "text": "所以本黨的意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1027.wav", + "text": "為施行再生醫療的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1028.wav", + "text": "醫療機構應該履行病人知情權" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1029.wav", + "text": "這是我們在第9條的訴求" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1030.wav", + "text": "酌予參考" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1031.wav", + "text": "我澄清一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1032.wav", + "text": "我現在先澄清幾個事實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1033.wav", + "text": "所謂現在時代力量的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1034.wav", + "text": "的但是後來不見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1035.wav", + "text": "了我稍微查詢一下" + }, + { + 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"../sentence_wavs/15009/1075.wav", + "text": "都要先審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1076.wav", + "text": "才去做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1077.wav", + "text": "不是我們喊說要做就做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1078.wav", + "text": "有三個狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1079.wav", + "text": "一個是恩慈療法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1080.wav", + "text": "一個是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1081.wav", + "text": "一定要經過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1082.wav", + "text": "這個其實就是符合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1083.wav", + "text": "特管辦法第十四條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1084.wav", + "text": "你要讓他有機會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1085.wav", + "text": "藥物試驗要分第一期第二期第三期第四期" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1086.wav", + "text": "人體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1087.wav", + "text": "這是很難處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1088.wav", + "text": "你就不救他的命嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1089.wav", + "text": "很久了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1090.wav", + "text": "招5個人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1091.wav", + "text": "初步效果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1092.wav", + "text": "這樣就可以送給衛福部審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1093.wav", + "text": "臺灣拚到現在這麼久" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1094.wav", + "text": "這也是各醫院在處理的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1095.wav", + "text": "另外第三個就是現在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1096.wav", + "text": "特管辦法的第十三條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1097.wav", + "text": "那已經是正面表列" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1098.wav", + "text": "說這些可以做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1099.wav", + "text": "的現在第2項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1100.wav", + "text": "這三個通通要再審查才能再去做" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/15009/1114.wav", + "text": "要發展製品藥品器材" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1115.wav", + "text": "通通要發展啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1116.wav", + "text": "現在慢慢發展得不錯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1117.wav", + "text": "你把它都不要的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1118.wav", + "text": "人民求救" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1119.wav", + "text": "利受到嚴重的損傷" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1120.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1121.wav", + "text": "謝謝主席我簡短針對第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1122.wav", + "text": "衛福部對於第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1123.wav", + "text": "個是針對特殊的個案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1124.wav", + "text": "少量個案特殊個案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1125.wav", + "text": "第二個是特管辦法第十四條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1126.wav", + "text": "第三個是特管辦法第十三條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1127.wav", + "text": "這三個其實那時候沒有講得那麼清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1128.wav", + "text": "修正文字就是今天時代力量拿出來的修正文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1129.wav", + "text": "最後大家沒有共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1130.wav", + "text": "我這邊的理由就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1131.wav", + "text": "修正完的這個文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1132.wav", + "text": "我反而看不懂它到底是在因應什麼事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1133.wav", + "text": "對於我來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1134.wav", + "text": "我沒有辦法看出來它這邊提到的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1135.wav", + "text": "我們讓特管辦法真的入到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1136.wav", + "text": "我們的再生醫療法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1137.wav", + "text": "所以如果以今天衛福部的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1138.wav", + "text": "第9條這邊其實能夠去因應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1139.wav", + "text": "對照這三款分別對照的東西的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1140.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1141.wav", + "text": "謝謝主席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1142.wav", + "text": "我還是要表示一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1143.wav", + "text": "就是第9條的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1144.wav", + "text": "其實是要跟第8條連動來看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1145.wav", + "text": "第8條是所有都要經過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1146.wav", + "text": "這些核可的程序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1147.wav", + "text": "第9條是到危及生命" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1148.wav", + "text": "也就是無藥可醫的這種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1149.wav", + "text": "情形如果我們能夠證明它有初步" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1150.wav", + "text": "療效的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1151.wav", + "text": "它其實是可以緊急處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1152.wav", + "text": "我跟幾位委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1153.wav", + "text": "舉一個簡單的例子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1154.wav", + "text": "在幾年前日本曾經用這樣的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1155.wav", + "text": "叫平岡麗美" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1156.wav", + "text": "的病人平岡麗美有非常嚴重的心肌內膜炎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1157.wav", + "text": "她的心臟衰竭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1158.wav", + "text": "當時在日本研發的心臟層片技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1159.wav", + "text": "其實還沒有拿到藥證" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1160.wav", + "text": "還沒有完全做完人體試驗" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1161.wav", + "text": "但是日本為了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1162.wav", + "text": "澤芳樹教授可以將" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1163.wav", + "text": "心臟層片這樣的技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1164.wav", + "text": "移植到平岡麗美小姐身上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1165.wav", + "text": "平岡麗美小姐現在非常" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1166.wav", + "text": "健康地活著" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1167.wav", + "text": "而日本也因為這樣子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1168.wav", + "text": "他們的心臟層片技術後來不斷的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1169.wav", + "text": "發展到現在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1170.wav", + "text": "也能夠技轉到臺灣來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1171.wav", + "text": "臺灣有一家生技公司拿到日本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1172.wav", + "text": "技轉的技術也在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1173.wav", + "text": "研發心臟層片的技術" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1174.wav", + "text": "所以我們要講第9條的精神" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1175.wav", + "text": "基本上就是因為這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1176.wav", + "text": "來設立如果說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1177.wav", + "text": "它是圖利我可以很清楚地" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1178.wav", + "text": "告訴大家它圖利的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1179.wav", + "text": "病人它圖利的只有病人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1180.wav", + "text": "只有病人的健康才是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1181.wav", + "text": "這個條文最大的受益者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1182.wav", + "text": "非常感謝邱議瑩委員的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1183.wav", + "text": "其實這個部分正是我們這個修正版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1184.wav", + "text": "所涵蓋的部分就是對於生命" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1185.wav", + "text": "或者是嚴重失能的疾病" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1186.wav", + "text": "得以開放這樣子的條件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1187.wav", + "text": "所以我其實非常贊同邱議瑩委員的支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1188.wav", + "text": "也就是說應該要用這個方式來做處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1189.wav", + "text": "另外我覺得需要釐清一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1190.wav", + "text": "因為我覺得現在的爭議就是在於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1191.wav", + "text": "院版最初的第2款和第3款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1192.wav", + "text": "是不是符合特管辦法的第十三條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1193.wav", + "text": "以我現在的了解也請衛福部等一下說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1194.wav", + "text": "主要是針對所應該具有的計畫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1195.wav", + "text": "應該要有一些載明的事項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1196.wav", + "text": "並沒有看到的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1197.wav", + "text": "有初步療效就可以來作使用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1198.wav", + "text": "或者是有免除許可的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1199.wav", + "text": "是不是能夠就這個部分來做釐清" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1200.wav", + "text": "如何對應到第十三條第十四條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1201.wav", + "text": "說明清楚我覺得我們並不是在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1202.wav", + "text": "在今天要卡的特別緊而是我們擔心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1203.wav", + "text": "在再生醫療法通過之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1204.wav", + "text": "會讓我們原本的部分有所放鬆" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1205.wav", + "text": "而這個放鬆是大家所擔心的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1206.wav", + "text": "大家其實有一個共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1207.wav", + "text": "我覺得這是很清楚的就是剛剛提到的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1208.wav", + "text": "假設他是在危及生命或是嚴重失能" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1209.wav", + "text": "且沒有適當藥品的情況下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1210.wav", + "text": "我想大家都同意應該要開這個門" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1211.wav", + "text": "或是應該要讓它能夠有免經許可的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1212.wav", + "text": "朝野各黨都達到共識的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1213.wav", + "text": "我們是不是就聚焦回來討論第2款和第3款的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1214.wav", + "text": "請陳椒華委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1215.wav", + "text": "協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1216.wav", + "text": "剛剛也有講了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1217.wav", + "text": "很清楚就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1218.wav", + "text": "修正動議第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1219.wav", + "text": "再配合第8條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1220.wav", + "text": "走" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1221.wav", + "text": "第8條的程序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1222.wav", + "text": "這樣就不會牴觸" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1223.wav", + "text": "這個特管辦法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1224.wav", + "text": "而且比較不會引起民間" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1225.wav", + "text": "病友的擔憂" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1226.wav", + "text": "也沒有限制技術的發展" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1227.wav", + "text": "在第一次協商也講了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1228.wav", + "text": "就是用時力今天" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1229.wav", + "text": "修正的第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1230.wav", + "text": "再配合第8條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1231.wav", + "text": "連動的一併看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1232.wav", + "text": "就可以處理了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1233.wav", + "text": "也沒有特管辦法第十四條的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1234.wav", + "text": "你說特管辦法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1235.wav", + "text": "這個部分真的是一個大漏洞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1236.wav", + "text": "啊所以總結就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1237.wav", + "text": "用修正的第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1238.wav", + "text": "配合連動第8條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1239.wav", + "text": "這樣就可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1240.wav", + "text": "來走" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1241.wav", + "text": "可以來做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1242.wav", + "text": "就沒有這個特管" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1243.wav", + "text": "會鎖死" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1244.wav", + "text": "的技術等等相關的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1245.wav", + "text": "也就是說第8條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1246.wav", + "text": "不要動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1247.wav", + "text": "等��如果不是危及生命的情況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1248.wav", + "text": "之下可以走第8條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1249.wav", + "text": "的程序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1250.wav", + "text": "也就是沒有鎖死說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1251.wav", + "text": "特管辦法已經開放的技術在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1252.wav", + "text": "我們現在部版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1253.wav", + "text": "或是我們修正的條文裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1254.wav", + "text": "不能走" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1255.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1256.wav", + "text": "這樣有共識嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1257.wav", + "text": "沒有共識所以保留好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1258.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1259.wav", + "text": "再講一下我剛剛講的對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1260.wav", + "text": "好嗎我剛剛講的對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1261.wav", + "text": "麻煩司長或部長回應一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1262.wav", + "text": "我剛剛講的對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1263.wav", + "text": "請大家看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1264.wav", + "text": "第十一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1265.wav", + "text": "請司長回應一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1266.wav", + "text": "大家都講保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1267.wav", + "text": "所以本案保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1268.wav", + "text": "我剛剛講的對不對好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1269.wav", + "text": "請大家看第十一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1270.wav", + "text": "十一條有沒有什麼意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1271.wav", + "text": "通過好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1272.wav", + "text": "好那就通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1273.wav", + "text": "院長我們有修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1274.wav", + "text": "第十一條我們有提修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1275.wav", + "text": "關於第十一條主要還是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1276.wav", + "text": "在最後一條那時候衛福部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1277.wav", + "text": "四項的部分有提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1278.wav", + "text": "所設的醫療機構或學校法人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1279.wav", + "text": "所設的學校如果要去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1280.wav", + "text": "設立公司的情況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1281.wav", + "text": "或是設置藥品公司的情況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1282.wav", + "text": "因為有其公益性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1283.wav", + "text": "所以必須在這邊做處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1284.wav", + "text": "但是我們也想請教的是關於這個把關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1285.wav", + "text": "就是所謂的主管機關核准這個核准" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1286.wav", + "text": "是依照什麼樣的規範或是什麼樣的定義" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1287.wav", + "text": "來釐清大家的疑慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1288.wav", + "text": "因為大家所擔心的就是在於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1289.wav", + "text": "倫理的問題假設是由醫療法人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1290.wav", + "text": "或是學校法人來設立一個公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1291.wav", + "text": "醫療法人之下的醫療機構為了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1292.wav", + "text": "遊說或是鼓勵民眾來進行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1293.wav", + "text": "再生醫療我想這是大家所不樂見的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1294.wav", + "text": "\n我還是要再次強調我覺得再生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1295.wav", + "text": "醫療法的推動是大家都支持的方向" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1296.wav", + "text": "但是裡面的嚴格把關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1297.wav", + "text": "和必須要做的核准或是審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1298.wav", + "text": "是不能少的所以是不是能夠先釐清" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1299.wav", + "text": "醫療法人所設的機構或是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1300.wav", + "text": "學校法人所設的在學校底下如果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1301.wav", + "text": "醫藥公司的時候我們的把關機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1302.wav", + "text": "之前也有提到如果它是一般" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1303.wav", + "text": "公司的設立也應該要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1304.wav", + "text": "能夠進行把關而不是有所差異的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1305.wav", + "text": "重點還是在於如何把關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1306.wav", + "text": "這個醫藥公司所" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1307.wav", + "text": "進行的實驗或是進行的藥劑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1308.wav", + "text": "藥品是符合大家的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1309.wav", + "text": "需求而且是有安全把關的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1310.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1311.wav", + "text": "關於第十一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1312.wav", + "text": "時代力量的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1313.wav", + "text": "裡面並沒有提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1314.wav", + "text": "這一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1315.wav", + "text": "對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1316.wav", + "text": "的部分所以我們認為要一致" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1317.wav", + "text": "不論是不是法人所設立的" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/15009/1331.wav", + "text": "我並不是很清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1332.wav", + "text": "有沒有足夠的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1333.wav", + "text": "另外spinoff去做公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1334.wav", + "text": "但是醫療法人的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1335.wav", + "text": "是不清楚的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1336.wav", + "text": "所以我們才希望在這裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1337.wav", + "text": "把它寫進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1338.wav", + "text": "我有一點困惑耶" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1339.wav", + "text": "來跟我們溝通和說明的是這部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1340.wav", + "text": "其實都跟原本的是一樣的而現在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1341.wav", + "text": "部長是說不知道學校" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1342.wav", + "text": "是不是能夠有設立這樣子的法規我覺得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1343.wav", + "text": "很奇怪就是衛福部在不同的" + }, + { 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"audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1449.wav", + "text": "無行為能力的應該取得法定代理人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1450.wav", + "text": "監護人的同意嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1451.wav", + "text": "衛福部版本是不是這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1452.wav", + "text": "比較完整嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1453.wav", + "text": "你現在把胎兒" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1454.wav", + "text": "無行為能力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1455.wav", + "text": "這樣以後能不能做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1456.wav", + "text": "臍帶血幹細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1457.wav", + "text": "這樣以後臍帶血幹細胞能不能做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1458.wav", + "text": "為什麼你" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1459.wav", + "text": "們反對這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1460.wav", + "text": "這沒有道理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1461.wav", + "text": "當然在議事程序上其實我們本來就可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1462.wav", + "text": "提修正動議我想這也是要尊重" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1463.wav", + "text": "各黨團的權利" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1464.wav", + "text": "應該要支持這樣的訂定我們特別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1465.wav", + "text": "兒和受宣告輔助之人或無意識能力人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1466.wav", + "text": "人排除的部分會特別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1467.wav", + "text": "我們的確希望能夠避免" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1468.wav", + "text": "道德倫理的風險以及對於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1469.wav", + "text": "兒童最佳權益的情況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1470.wav", + "text": "如果當我們談的是年幼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1471.wav", + "text": "代為決定這樣是一個對的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1472.wav", + "text": "嗎又或者是的確發生過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1473.wav", + "text": "的也就是剛才提到的姐姐守護者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1474.wav", + "text": "孩子們其實有表意權但是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1475.wav", + "text": "父母卻代為幫他們決定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1476.wav", + "text": "donor的情況這是不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1477.wav", + "text": "一個合理且合倫理的作法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1478.wav", + "text": "我覺得這是大家要思考的我剛剛所提" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1479.wav", + "text": "當孩子他有表達意見的權利" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1480.wav", + "text": "在一個非常不對等的情況包括" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1481.wav", + "text": "甚至母親懷孕只是為了要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1482.wav", + "text": "救手足之情況下這其實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1483.wav", + "text": "是有道德和倫理風險上的考慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1484.wav", + "text": "我覺得這部分大家真的要深思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1485.wav", + "text": "所以我們才會提出這樣的修正道德倫理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1486.wav", + "text": "風險是值得爭辯的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1487.wav", + "text": "他們有完整的規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1488.wav", + "text": "什麼就怎麼樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1489.wav", + "text": "如果我的目的對象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1490.wav", + "text": "就是針對無行為能力的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1491.wav", + "text": "那是不是反而變成我沒有辦法對無行為能力的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1492.wav", + "text": "那位當事人取得他的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1493.wav", + "text": "你們結果會不會變成這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1494.wav", + "text": "們處理的是捐贈者來源提供者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1495.wav", + "text": "不是無行為能力人的治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1496.wav", + "text": "不是如果我本身就是無行為能力者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1497.wav", + "text": "我也要治療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1498.wav", + "text": "所以我需要拿我這個無行為能力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1499.wav", + "text": "因為你們這樣的文字會變成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1500.wav", + "text": "我連治我自己都不行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1501.wav", + "text": "對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1502.wav", + "text": "你知道意思嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1503.wav", + "text": "因為是顯有益於特定人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1504.wav", + "text": "才可以達到後面的效果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1505.wav", + "text": "所以如果我本身因為某種狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1506.wav", + "text": "而沒有行為能力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1507.wav", + "text": "基於醫療需要我拿我的細胞來治療我" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1508.wav", + "text": "自己結果因為寫了這個進去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1509.wav", + "text": "是不是我就不行治療我自己了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1510.wav", + "text": "我一樣是這個疑問" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1511.wav", + "text": "或是胎盤幹細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1512.wav", + "text": "已經非常非常久了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1513.wav", + "text": "條文中有明確的寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1514.wav", + "text": "也就是不是在這一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1515.wav", + "text": "而是在後面的條文就有提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1516.wav", + "text": "不能為了要做治療就特別去搞一個胚胎出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1517.wav", + "text": "做再生醫療" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1518.wav", + "text": "規定而且我們也通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1519.wav", + "text": "\n另外我會擔心一件事情是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1520.wav", + "text": "我們在所謂的胎兒幹細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1521.wav", + "text": "在小朋友剛出生的過程中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1522.wav", + "text": "取他的臍帶血取他的胎盤" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1523.wav", + "text": "這個過程事實上是不可能取得胎兒同意的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1524.wav", + "text": "所以如果照這個邏輯來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1525.wav", + "text": "以後我們所有臍帶血幹細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1526.wav", + "text": "是不是統統都不能取" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1527.wav", + "text": "因為那是伴隨胎兒出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1528.wav", + "text": "附隨的東西啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1529.wav", + "text": "我想這個條文並不是堅持時代力量黨團的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1530.wav", + "text": "比如說剛才鄭運鵬委員的說法其實是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1531.wav", + "text": "我覺得自體當然沒有疑慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1532.wav", + "text": "我們現在比較顧及的是剛才提到異體的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1533.wav", + "text": "他是一個沒有辦法自己作表達" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1534.wav", + "text": "又或者是在一個權利和表達能力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1535.wav", + "text": "不對等的情況下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1536.wav", + "text": "應該都還是以自體做處理嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1537.wav", + "text": "乙型地中海型貧血是用異體做治療的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1538.wav", + "text": "所以我覺得這部分應該要有幾個層次的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1539.wav", + "text": "黨團的版本一個字都不能調整" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1540.wav", + "text": "而是我們應該要依照不同的狀態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1541.wav", + "text": "我們剛才所提的風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1542.wav", + "text": "你們是不讓他們處理不是風險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1543.wav", + "text": "陳委員你講一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1544.wav", + "text": "講完就照行政院版本通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1545.wav", + "text": "院長不是這樣處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1546.wav", + "text": "無行為能力的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1547.wav", + "text": "我們排除自體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1548.wav", + "text": "這個部分就是非自體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1549.wav", + "text": "無行為能力的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1550.wav", + "text": "另外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1551.wav", + "text": "就是在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1552.wav", + "text": "胎兒或者是嬰兒" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1553.wav", + "text": "父母不要幫他決定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1554.wav", + "text": "我們這個修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1555.wav", + "text": "一個很重要的就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1556.wav", + "text": "我們不要幫他決定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1557.wav", + "text": "他的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1558.wav", + "text": "��液或者是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1559.wav", + "text": "他未來的細胞" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1560.wav", + "text": "是可以給別人用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1561.wav", + "text": "這個就先把它排除" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1562.wav", + "text": "嘛這個就是有所謂" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1563.wav", + "text": "倫理和道德的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1564.wav", + "text": "排除自體非" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1565.wav", + "text": "無行為能力人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1566.wav", + "text": "這個部分在第1項我們把它納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1567.wav", + "text": "請大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1568.wav", + "text": "我們不要去幫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1569.wav", + "text": "還沒有出生或者是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1570.wav", + "text": "他沒有辦法自己決定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1571.wav", + "text": "我們就去幫他去決定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1572.wav", + "text": "他的血液細胞是可以來做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1573.wav", + "text": "這樣子的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1574.wav", + "text": "已經發展到這個地步不會把人當人放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1575.wav", + "text": "在那邊沒事去拿細胞來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1576.wav", + "text": "我們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1577.wav", + "text": "病要用的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1578.wav", + "text": "沒有等他長大同意以後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1579.wav", + "text": "嘛不要他還沒長大就幫他決定了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1580.wav", + "text": "協商結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1581.wav", + "text": "一協商通過條文第1條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1582.wav", + "text": "第5條第十九條第二十四條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1583.wav", + "text": "第二十八條如附件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1584.wav", + "text": "\n二照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1585.wav", + "text": "第3條第33條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1586.wav", + "text": "\n三保留送院會處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1587.wav", + "text": "第3條第9條第十一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1588.wav", + "text": "第十六條第二十七條第二十九條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1589.wav", + "text": "第三十一條第三十二條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1590.wav", + "text": "\n四不予採納委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1591.wav", + "text": "蘇巧慧等16人提案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1592.wav", + "text": "第六章章名時代力量黨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1593.wav", + "text": "團提案第" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1594.wav", + "text": "其餘均照審查會審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1595.wav", + "text": "結果通過\n六" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1596.wav", + "text": "協商通過部分宣讀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1597.wav", + "text": "後均予以通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1598.wav", + "text": "保留部分均暫保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1599.wav", + "text": "保留部分院會進行處理前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1600.wav", + "text": "由各黨團推派1人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1601.wav", + "text": "依時代力量黨團" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1602.wav", + "text": "台灣民眾黨黨團" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1603.wav", + "text": "國民黨黨團民進黨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1604.wav", + "text": "黨團順序輪流發言" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1605.wav", + "text": "報告主席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1606.wav", + "text": "再生醫療製劑條例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1607.wav", + "text": "第3條的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1608.wav", + "text": "那時候也保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1609.wav", + "text": "現在才要討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1610.wav", + "text": "好各位一邊簽" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1611.wav", + "text": "名我來向大家報告一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1612.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1613.wav", + "text": "再生醫療製劑條例草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1614.wav", + "text": "等案本案由於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1615.wav", + "text": "社會福利及衛生環境委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1616.wav", + "text": "召委吳玉琴委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1617.wav", + "text": "於4月21日召集" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1618.wav", + "text": "黨團協商時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1619.wav", + "text": "所有保留條文均獲得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1620.wav", + "text": "協商共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1621.wav", + "text": "因此本席徵詢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1622.wav", + "text": "各位委員是否同意就依照" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1623.wav", + "text": "4月21日之協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1624.wav", + "text": "結論通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1625.wav", + "text": "有保留啊第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1626.wav", + "text": "有保留啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1627.wav", + "text": "這資料給我們看啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1628.wav", + "text": "資料在哪裡我們沒看到" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/15009/1732.wav", + "text": "支持行政院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1733.wav", + "text": "我想這個案子大家應該很熟悉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1734.wav", + "text": "就是近來疫情之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1735.wav", + "text": "演唱會大爆發以後所產生的黃牛的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1736.wav", + "text": "就是針對演唱會的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1737.wav", + "text": "增訂第10條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1738.wav", + "text": "罰鍰為票面金額的十倍到五十倍" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1739.wav", + "text": "如果是運用機器碼以虛偽方式來搶票的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1740.wav", + "text": "我們這次是處刑罰" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1741.wav", + "text": "罰─三年以下有���徒刑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1742.wav", + "text": "或併科新臺幣三百萬元以下罰金" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1743.wav", + "text": "但是我必須說這個罰鍰" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1744.wav", + "text": "的就是十到五十倍" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1745.wav", + "text": "刑責的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1746.wav", + "text": "其實也是相當高" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1747.wav", + "text": "已經從一年提高到三年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1748.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1749.wav", + "text": "請王委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1750.wav", + "text": "我想表達一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1751.wav", + "text": "其實在委員會審查的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1752.wav", + "text": "是照吳思瑤委員的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1753.wav", + "text": "應該是國民黨沒有委員出席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1754.wav", + "text": "其實都已經有共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1755.wav", + "text": "是不是應該要回到委員會的協商版本來做處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1756.wav", + "text": "而不要再回到最初的行政院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1757.wav", + "text": "因為這其實已經經過多次討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1758.wav", + "text": "可以嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1759.wav", + "text": "同意嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1760.wav", + "text": "大家同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1761.wav", + "text": "照委員會協商版本通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1762.wav", + "text": "委員會協商版本的內容是什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1763.wav", + "text": "和行政院的版本有沒有差異" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1764.wav", + "text": "從只有地方政府變成也有中央" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1765.wav", + "text": "對於委員會這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1766.wav", + "text": "同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1767.wav", + "text": "第一案第10條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1768.wav", + "text": "1就通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1769.wav", + "text": "\n請看第十二條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1770.wav", + "text": "第十二條的要旨是有關政府協助" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1771.wav", + "text": "和獎補助事項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1772.wav", + "text": "爭點是票券" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1773.wav", + "text": "販售是否應採實名制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1774.wav", + "text": "這個部分誰要來說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1775.wav", + "text": "我來幫忙解釋一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1776.wav", + "text": "希望能夠推動實名制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1777.wav", + "text": "也有表達他們未來會積極推動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1778.wav", + "text": "可是希望不要放在法條中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1779.wav", + "text": "因為放在法條中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1780.wav", + "text": "文化部會有一些困擾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1781.wav", + "text": "就變得好像一定要立刻做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1782.wav", + "text": "應該是王婉諭委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1783.wav", + "text": "所以就保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1784.wav", + "text": "我就幫忙說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1785.wav", + "text": "不是嗎OK那講一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1786.wav", + "text": "好那就請王婉���委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1787.wav", + "text": "不好意思我幫召委補充說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1788.wav", + "text": "召委可能誤會了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1789.wav", + "text": "\n當時在第十二條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1790.wav", + "text": "其實我們一開始是有堅持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1791.wav", + "text": "然後吳思瑤委員也有提出修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1792.wav", + "text": "後來一樣是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1793.wav", + "text": "照吳思瑤委員的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1794.wav", + "text": "修正之後大家沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1795.wav", + "text": "但是當時其實文化部有承諾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1796.wav", + "text": "立法說明的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1797.wav", + "text": "把實名制三個字放進去這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1798.wav", + "text": "就可以完成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1799.wav", + "text": "這是第一件事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1800.wav", + "text": "第二是本文的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1801.wav", + "text": "其實是沒有疑慮的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1802.wav", + "text": "是因為後來國民黨" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1803.wav", + "text": "沒有簽協商結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1804.wav", + "text": "\n我認為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1805.wav", + "text": "我們收歛一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1806.wav", + "text": "是不是修正文字讓大家知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1807.wav", + "text": "如同委員會上的協商結果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1808.wav", + "text": "就是有把實名制這幾個字放進去之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1809.wav", + "text": "就照委員會的共識通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1810.wav", + "text": "這樣是不是比較簡單一" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1811.wav", + "text": "當時的協調是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1812.wav", + "text": "第一個我們在第十二條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1813.wav", + "text": "增加第二十項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1814.wav", + "text": "維護文化創意產業票券市場價格及交易秩序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1815.wav", + "text": "不要把實名制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1816.wav", + "text": "放在立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1817.wav", + "text": "而是放在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1818.wav", + "text": "我記得是說附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1819.wav", + "text": "對是放在附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1820.wav", + "text": "我的紀錄是附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1821.wav", + "text": "所以想請教一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1822.wav", + "text": "法條文字沒有錯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1823.wav", + "text": "然後要放在立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1824.wav", + "text": "或是附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1825.wav", + "text": "是說要經過討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1826.wav", + "text": "就是你們帶回去思考一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1827.wav", + "text": "我們就放在附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1828.wav", + "text": "所以附帶決議在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1829.wav", + "text": "是釐清一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1830.wav", + "text": "啦就是依照共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1831.wav", + "text": "應該就沒有��題沒" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1832.wav", + "text": "有講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1833.wav", + "text": "到底" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1834.wav", + "text": "所以文化部的態度" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1835.wav", + "text": "是要放在附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1836.wav", + "text": "第一個實名制可能短期" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1837.wav", + "text": "內沒有那麼快" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1838.wav", + "text": "所以造成擾民" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1839.wav", + "text": "啦很多東西要實名制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1840.wav", + "text": "坦白講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1841.wav", + "text": "造成比賽都很困難" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1842.wav", + "text": "所以我們不要層意太高" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1843.wav", + "text": "啦已經在抓黃牛就夠了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1844.wav", + "text": "而且課予刑責" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1845.wav", + "text": "了所以有關實名制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1846.wav", + "text": "以後再談好了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1847.wav", + "text": "我們當初就是因為這樣子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1848.wav", + "text": "所以其實已經有討論過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1849.wav", + "text": "放在第十二條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1850.wav", + "text": "就是只有鼓勵補助獎勵的形式" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1851.wav", + "text": "也照這個版本通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1852.wav", + "text": "要不要放在立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1853.wav", + "text": "或是附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1854.wav", + "text": "但是其實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1855.wav", + "text": "自己在立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1856.wav", + "text": "已經提到第二項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1857.wav", + "text": "是不是就照這個版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1858.wav", + "text": "因為這是文化部提出來的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1859.wav", + "text": "立法說明怎麼寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1860.wav", + "text": "主管機關依" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1861.wav", + "text": "依此獎勵補助或行政協助" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1862.wav", + "text": "推動藝文表演" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1863.wav", + "text": "票券正常流通及維護市場交易" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1864.wav", + "text": "秩序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1865.wav", + "text": "以有效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1866.wav", + "text": "遏止黃牛票券氾濫問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1867.wav", + "text": "這個條文你們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1868.wav", + "text": "就有這些精神了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1869.wav", + "text": "立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1870.wav", + "text": "已經有納入這個精神了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1871.wav", + "text": "看王婉諭委員這邊是不是覺得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1872.wav", + "text": "可以立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1873.wav", + "text": "已經把要推動實名制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1874.wav", + "text": "因為其實滿多委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1875.wav", + "text": "希望能夠逐步推動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1876.wav", + "text": "文化部如果在立法說明中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1877.wav", + "text": "可以把這個精神放入" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1878.wav", + "text": "其實大家就可以接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1879.wav", + "text": "我只想請教一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1880.wav", + "text": "有實名制這幾個字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1881.wav", + "text": "出現在立法說明裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1882.wav", + "text": "裡我想請教一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1883.wav", + "text": "文化部評估之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1884.wav", + "text": "覺得不適宜的部分是在哪裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1885.wav", + "text": "因為它只是一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1886.wav", + "text": "立法說明的部分而已" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1887.wav", + "text": "我坦白跟委員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1888.wav", + "text": "因為這個售票市場涉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1889.wav", + "text": "涉及層面很廣大" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1890.wav", + "text": "有部分的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1891.wav", + "text": "其實是把實名制當成萬靈丹" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1892.wav", + "text": "但是實名制事實上是對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1893.wav", + "text": "絕大多數的觀眾也產生了困擾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1894.wav", + "text": "立法修法的過程當中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1895.wav", + "text": "但是不要在說明文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1896.wav", + "text": "或者是現行條文上加入" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1897.wav", + "text": "是衝突的焦點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1898.wav", + "text": "一定會造成衝突的焦點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1899.wav", + "text": "你到現場的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1900.wav", + "text": "如何證明你是自己" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1901.wav", + "text": "這樣很麻煩" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1902.wav", + "text": "那就用附帶決議處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1903.wav", + "text": "不是用附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1904.wav", + "text": "你要在說明欄處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1905.wav", + "text": "現在照你這樣是放在說明欄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1906.wav", + "text": "你要同意嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1907.wav", + "text": "可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1908.wav", + "text": "好如果同意那就這樣通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1909.wav", + "text": "委員會已經通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1910.wav", + "text": "27條之2" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1911.wav", + "text": "投資抵減的實施年限" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1912.wav", + "text": "行政院的版本是實施" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1913.wav", + "text": "行政院得視實際情況延長一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1914.wav", + "text": "也就是十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1915.wav", + "text": "嘛我主張恢復行政院版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1916.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1917.wav", + "text": "延長成二十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1918.wav", + "text": "沒有啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1919.wav", + "text": "沒有二十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1920.wav", + "text": "五年延五年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1921.wav", + "text": "你現在延五年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1922.wav", + "text": "這是行政院版本對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1923.wav", + "text": "跟主席和各位���員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1924.wav", + "text": "我們原來院版的版本是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1925.wav", + "text": "實施期限五年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1926.wav", + "text": "然後可以報行政院延長一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1927.wav", + "text": "所以是五加所" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1928.wav", + "text": "樣不延長十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1929.wav", + "text": "OK那樣可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1930.wav", + "text": "投資抵減一定有年限的啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1931.wav", + "text": "好因為過去最長都是十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1932.wav", + "text": "所以最長還是十年對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1933.wav", + "text": "10條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1934.wav", + "text": "第27條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1935.wav", + "text": "第27條之2" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1936.wav", + "text": "跟第十二條等等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1937.wav", + "text": "我們立法說明都有酌" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1938.wav", + "text": "酌予文字修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1939.wav", + "text": "請大家確認一下謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1940.wav", + "text": "的立法說明也有文字補充" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1941.wav", + "text": "所以有增加立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1942.wav", + "text": "第10條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1943.wav", + "text": "你增加後面的第7款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1944.wav", + "text": "是不是這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1945.wav", + "text": "對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1946.wav", + "text": "就是要說明有關檢舉獎金的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1947.wav", + "text": "入法以及立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1948.wav", + "text": "OK要保密嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1949.wav", + "text": "對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1950.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1951.wav", + "text": "還有第幾條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1952.wav", + "text": "27條之1是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1953.wav", + "text": "對因為剛剛只有講到十" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1954.wav", + "text": "立法說明也有做一些微調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1955.wav", + "text": "立法說明就寫十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1956.wav", + "text": "我看你第7款寫十年嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1957.wav", + "text": "對我說立法說明的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1958.wav", + "text": "也隨之變更為十年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1959.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1960.wav", + "text": "第3條就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1961.wav", + "text": "我宣讀一下協商結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1962.wav", + "text": "\n協商結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1963.wav", + "text": "一協商通過條文第10條之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1964.wav", + "text": "第十二條如後附" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1965.wav", + "text": "\n二原審查會保留附帶決議7案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1966.wav", + "text": "理\n三其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1967.wav", + "text": "\n四檢附立法說明一份" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1968.wav", + "text": "附帶決議有7項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1969.wav", + "text": "院會處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1970.wav", + "text": "我剛剛沒有聽得很清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1971.wav", + "text": "請問附帶決議是已經處理完了保" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1972.wav", + "text": "留送院會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1973.wav", + "text": "可是委員會已經同意了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1974.wav", + "text": "附帶決議你們已經同意了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1975.wav", + "text": "附帶決議原則上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1976.wav", + "text": "是國民黨沒簽字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1977.wav", + "text": "原則上就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1978.wav", + "text": "是統一把它弄清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1979.wav", + "text": "院會處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1980.wav", + "text": "委員會都已經通過的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1981.wav", + "text": "為什麼還要送" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1982.wav", + "text": "今天要是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1983.wav", + "text": "照委員會的審查結果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1984.wav", + "text": "國民黨會反對嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1985.wav", + "text": "請國民黨簽一簽不就結束了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1986.wav", + "text": "委員會沒同意的就是沒有了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1987.wav", + "text": "但委員會有同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1988.wav", + "text": "簽就是沒不" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1989.wav", + "text": "表決的時候還會再增加" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1990.wav", + "text": "都會一併處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1991.wav", + "text": "沒有簽就沒有了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1992.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1993.wav", + "text": "感恩" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1994.wav", + "text": "公視法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1995.wav", + "text": "協商得怎麼樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1996.wav", + "text": "委員會協商結束" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1997.wav", + "text": "國民黨的委員沒有來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1998.wav", + "text": "不是我是說公視法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/1999.wav", + "text": "我來看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2000.wav", + "text": "不然來這裡談好了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2001.wav", + "text": "直接到這裡談嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2002.wav", + "text": "視法有沒有爭議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2003.wav", + "text": "應該沒什麼爭議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2004.wav", + "text": "你當然都講沒爭議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2005.wav", + "text": "你一簽就沒爭議就結束了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2006.wav", + "text": "好不行的話我們就再排來這裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2007.wav", + "text": "不好意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2008.wav", + "text": "我想確認一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2009.wav", + "text": "所謂的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2010.wav", + "text": "超過票面價格或販售的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2011.wav", + "text": "其實是含上架就有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2012.wav", + "text": "當時法務部也同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2013.wav", + "text": "現在立法說明沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2014.wav", + "text": "為後來決定不要放嗎還是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2015.wav", + "text": "要把" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2016.wav", + "text": "上架這件事情列為販售" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2017.wav", + "text": "這件事情要在立法說明說明清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2018.wav", + "text": "以解決大家的疑慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2019.wav", + "text": "放在立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2020.wav", + "text": "販售就包含上架的各種形態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2021.wav", + "text": "是當時是擔心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2022.wav", + "text": "有疑慮所以法務部是說就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2023.wav", + "text": "它放在立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2024.wav", + "text": "沒有上架怎麼販售" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2025.wav", + "text": "應該是這樣講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2026.wav", + "text": "上架算不算在罰的範圍內" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2027.wav", + "text": "內當時對此是有疑慮的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2028.wav", + "text": "所以法務部說用立法說明來處理就可以了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2029.wav", + "text": "現在我想請教的是法務部後來是不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2030.wav", + "text": "不同意放立法說明我只是想要釐清" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2031.wav", + "text": "所以就沒有另外再寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2032.wav", + "text": "就含各種型態包括" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2033.wav", + "text": "上架" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2034.wav", + "text": "不用放立法說明也沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2035.wav", + "text": "是不是你們再溝通一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2036.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2037.wav", + "text": "那麼會議就到此了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2038.wav", + "text": "到底算不算販售" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2039.wav", + "text": "當時在委員會曾經過一番討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2040.wav", + "text": "大家也都同意上架" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2041.wav", + "text": "屬於販售法務部也說這部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2042.wav", + "text": "會放在立法說明避免大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2043.wav", + "text": "有這樣的疑慮故而當時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2044.wav", + "text": "法務部承諾會放在立法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2045.wav", + "text": "說明但現在並沒有在立法說明看到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2046.wav", + "text": "又或者是文化部的意見不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2047.wav", + "text": "以致跟審查會決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2048.wav", + "text": "跟我們在委員會審查的結果不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2049.wav", + "text": "這是我想釐清的部分畢竟當時有說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2050.wav", + "text": "要放立法說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2051.wav", + "text": "我們確實有想" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2052.wav", + "text": "王委員提出這問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2053.wav", + "text": "在立法理由裡說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2054.wav", + "text": "可以更清晰" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2055.wav", + "text": "只是後來我們並沒有收到文化部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2056.wav", + "text": "任何的立法理由" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2057.wav", + "text": "想就這部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2058.wav", + "text": "或什麼的或許可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2059.wav", + "text": "再清晰一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2060.wav", + "text": "一種行為一發生當然可以罰但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2061.wav", + "text": "文意解釋沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2062.wav", + "text": "這不用再另外規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2063.wav", + "text": "一旦遂行就是一種犯罪行為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2064.wav", + "text": "當時有說要放進去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2065.wav", + "text": "也就是行政機關沒有想要認真處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2066.wav", + "text": "現在是文化部不給他們放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2067.wav", + "text": "沒有這問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2068.wav", + "text": "e法務部要罰人家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2069.wav", + "text": "只要行為一發生就可" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2070.wav", + "text": "一上架就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2071.wav", + "text": "就文意解釋來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2072.wav", + "text": "他放在口袋裡就不能罰他" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15009/2073.wav", + "text": "好謝謝大家散會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15000/0.wav", + "text": "部分條文修正草案這兩部法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15000/1.wav", + "text": "讓這個共同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/0.wav", + "text": "我們今天進行總統副總統選舉罷免法及公職人員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1.wav", + "text": "剩下很少條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/2.wav", + "text": "文需要協商希望今天可以達成共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/3.wav", + "text": "兩部法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/4.wav", + "text": "的協商這幾十年才修一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/5.wav", + "text": "3月15日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/6.wav", + "text": "3月16日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/7.wav", + "text": "3月27日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/8.wav", + "text": "3月29日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/9.wav", + "text": "竣有關保留的幾條條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/10.wav", + "text": "希望今天再占用大家一點時間" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/11.wav", + "text": "總統副總統選舉罷免法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/12.wav", + "text": "增訂第47條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/13.wav", + "text": "第9條及第96條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/14.wav", + "text": "公職人員選舉罷免法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/15.wav", + "text": "保留條文第26條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/16.wav", + "text": "增訂第51條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/17.wav", + "text": "第104條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/18.wav", + "text": "橫的這本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/19.wav", + "text": "的先從總統副總統選舉罷免法修" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/20.wav", + "text": "大家看第9頁" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/21.wav", + "text": "這個就是深偽條款的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/22.wav", + "text": "造謠的情況比較嚴重" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/23.wav", + "text": "因為它有惡假害" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/24.wav", + "text": "嘛所以基本上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/25.wav", + "text": "我們認為深偽部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/26.wav", + "text": "應該特別再加重處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/27.wav", + "text": "會不會有數位仲介法的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/28.wav", + "text": "其實不會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/29.wav", + "text": "啦因為深偽條款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/30.wav", + "text": "並沒有賦予行政機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/31.wav", + "text": "任何下架或移除的權力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/32.wav", + "text": "力這個都是必須要由當事人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/33.wav", + "text": "自己來發動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/34.wav", + "text": "所以它不會有這樣的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/35.wav", + "text": "同時這中間會經過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/36.wav", + "text": "檢察機關的鑑識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/37.wav", + "text": "所以基本上比較不會有這個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/38.wav", + "text": "希望委員會能夠支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/39.wav", + "text": "各位委員有沒有什麼意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/40.wav", + "text": "也有他們的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/41.wav", + "text": "如果沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/42.wav", + "text": "第9頁" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/43.wav", + "text": "第47條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/44.wav", + "text": "是深偽條款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/45.wav", + "text": "那就照行政院提案條文通過\n" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/46.wav", + "text": "\n接著處理第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/47.wav", + "text": "請大家看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/48.wav", + "text": "這兩條應該" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/49.wav", + "text": "同樣是與這一條連" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/50.wav", + "text": "連動的罰則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/51.wav", + "text": "事實上是因為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/52.wav", + "text": "連動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/53.wav", + "text": "所以這兩條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/54.wav", + "text": "一起" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/55.wav", + "text": "大家有沒有什麼意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/56.wav", + "text": "就是連動處罰" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/57.wav", + "text": "因為這是罰" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/58.wav", + "text": "則的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/59.wav", + "text": "意圖營利要罰多少錢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/60.wav", + "text": "沒意見我們就照這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/61.wav", + "text": "版本通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/62.wav", + "text": "一樣的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/63.wav", + "text": "但是我們有修正過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/64.wav", + "text": "對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/65.wav", + "text": "保留條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/66.wav", + "text": "是這樣子嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/67.wav", + "text": "大家有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/68.wav", + "text": "我們修正後的條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/69.wav", + "text": "上是總統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/70.wav", + "text": "副總統選舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/71.wav", + "text": "謝謝大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/72.wav", + "text": "所以這部法令" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/73.wav", + "text": "就完整通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/74.wav", + "text": "論那就送院會\n" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/75.wav", + "text": "我們保留了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/76.wav", + "text": "4條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/77.wav", + "text": "第26條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/78.wav", + "text": "可能大家會討論比較多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/79.wav", + "text": "���剛剛那個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/80.wav", + "text": "相關的深偽" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/81.wav", + "text": "深偽條款來做討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/82.wav", + "text": "這樣比較有效率" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/83.wav", + "text": "51條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/84.wav", + "text": "其實它跟總統副總統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/85.wav", + "text": "也是深偽條款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/86.wav", + "text": "大家有沒有什麼特別意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/87.wav", + "text": "我沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/88.wav", + "text": "想跟大家確認一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/89.wav", + "text": "是跟總統選罷法一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/90.wav", + "text": "是有電磁紀錄的那個條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/91.wav", + "text": "還是沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/92.wav", + "text": "因為後面的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/93.wav", + "text": "又有電磁紀錄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/94.wav", + "text": "那是下一條在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/95.wav", + "text": "再下一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/96.wav", + "text": "文那是罰則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/97.wav", + "text": "只是在說深偽的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/98.wav", + "text": "司長這樣對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/99.wav", + "text": "所以第51條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/100.wav", + "text": "就照行政院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/101.wav", + "text": "這樣可以嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/102.wav", + "text": "對如" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/103.wav", + "text": "如果大家沒有意見就通過\n" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/104.wav", + "text": "第104條是罰則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/105.wav", + "text": "這個罰則就是剛剛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/106.wav", + "text": "副主委所說的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/107.wav", + "text": "這個電磁紀錄是我們修正過的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/108.wav", + "text": "112年4月13日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/109.wav", + "text": "各位委員有沒有什麼意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/110.wav", + "text": "沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/111.wav", + "text": "見這一條就這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/112.wav", + "text": "這樣通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/113.wav", + "text": "一百十條事實上也是連動的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/114.wav", + "text": "差別在哪裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/115.wav", + "text": "第5頁" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/116.wav", + "text": "剛剛已經說了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/117.wav", + "text": "就是照修正後的那個版本通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/118.wav", + "text": "請大家看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/119.wav", + "text": "我們當初保留的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/120.wav", + "text": "第三項跟第五項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/121.wav", + "text": "配合增列媒體未留下紀錄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/122.wav", + "text": "我們那時候事實上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/123.wav", + "text": "還有項次也要修" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/124.wav", + "text": "第8項和第9項是配合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/125.wav", + "text": "是配合深偽" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/126.wav", + "text": "科長說明第一百" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/127.wav", 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+ "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/141.wav", + "text": "項次的調整" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/142.wav", + "text": "我們就把它改成第六項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/143.wav", + "text": "援引的處罰項次改為第六項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/144.wav", + "text": "所以這一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/145.wav", + "text": "\n接著我們回頭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/146.wav", + "text": "選罷法第51條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/147.wav", + "text": "要不要現在一起修先處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/148.wav", + "text": "然後我們再來討論再修正條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/149.wav", + "text": "先處理保留條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/150.wav", + "text": "或者是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/151.wav", + "text": "比較多的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/152.wav", + "text": "你們要修的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/153.wav", + "text": "要討論比較久" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/154.wav", + "text": "你們覺得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/155.wav", + "text": "我們就先把它修一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/156.wav", + "text": "因為後面會討論比較久" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/157.wav", + "text": "第26條會討論比較多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/158.wav", + "text": "你很認真" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/159.wav", + "text": "對我們有準備現在請" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/160.wav", + "text": "文字發給大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/161.wav", + "text": "我們大家看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/162.wav", + "text": "因為我們修了這麼多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/163.wav", + "text": "一個修了74條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/164.wav", + "text": "一個修了66條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/165.wav", + "text": "有些文字項次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/166.wav", + "text": "項次會稍微改動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/167.wav", + "text": "所以要把整" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/168.wav", + "text": "部法律整個看過一遍" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/169.wav", + "text": "我們現在只剩第26條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/170.wav", + "text": "剩下大部分都是已經" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/171.wav", + "text": "對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/172.wav", + "text": "他們有詳細的把整部法律" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/173.wav", + "text": "看了一遍看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/174.wav", + "text": "前後要一致" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/175.wav", + "text": "就是這一類的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/176.wav", + "text": "問題大家現在手上的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/177.wav", + "text": "再修正條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/178.wav", + "text": "就是有一些文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/179.wav", + "text": "要修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/180.wav", + "text": "向委員報告一下大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/181.wav", + "text": "大家手上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/182.wav", + "text": "賴委員手上有沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/183.wav", + "text": "邱委員已經有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/184.wav", + "text": "陳琬惠委員有嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/185.wav", + "text": "第32條的再修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/186.wav", + "text": "是因為上次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/187.wav", + "text": "我們在討論的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/188.wav", + "text": "有關於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/189.wav", + "text": "保證金發還的制度" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/190.wav", + "text": "原本我們想把" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/191.wav", + "text": "選舉人總數改為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/192.wav", + "text": "可能不太好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/193.wav", + "text": "還是回復到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/194.wav", + "text": "原來的選舉人總數" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/195.wav", + "text": "作為發還" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/196.wav", + "text": "所以我們把它改回來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/197.wav", + "text": "但是改回來之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/198.wav", + "text": "所以不要提高門檻" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/199.wav", + "text": "對改回來以後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/200.wav", + "text": "如果是改為選舉人總數" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/201.wav", + "text": "依照現行的制度" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/202.wav", + "text": "應該要先扣除逕遷戶" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/203.wav", + "text": "來算選舉人總數" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/204.wav", + "text": "否則對於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/205.wav", + "text": "基層的里長選舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/206.wav", + "text": "問題會非常大" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/207.wav", + "text": "很多人的戶籍" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/208.wav", + "text": "都直接遷到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/209.wav", + "text": "戶政事務所" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/210.wav", + "text": "這種人數" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/211.wav", + "text": "如果不先扣掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/212.wav", + "text": "可能會造成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/213.wav", + "text": "基層的選舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/214.wav", + "text": "沒有辦法拿回保證金" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/215.wav", + "text": "對保證金就拿不回來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/216.wav", + "text": "他已經當選都沒辦法拿" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/217.wav", + "text": "遷移不明的都被遷" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/218.wav", + "text": "先把那個部分扣掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/219.wav", + "text": "再來算選舉人總數" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/220.wav", + "text": "OK這個有道理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/221.wav", + "text": "提及第5項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/222.wav", + "text": "移到第6項前項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/223.wav", + "text": "嘛好第32條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/224.wav", + "text": "修正為這樣可以嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/225.wav", + "text": "可以啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/226.wav", + "text": "比較符合實情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/227.wav", + "text": "也不要提高門檻" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/228.wav", + "text": "比如說總統選舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/229.wav", + "text": "跟里長選舉還是有一些不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/230.wav", + "text": "不能造成他" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/231.wav", + "text": "他的困擾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/232.wav", + "text": "內政部建議再修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/233.wav", + "text": "條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/234.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/235.wav", + "text": "主要是我們在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/236.wav", + "text": "修正上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/237.wav", + "text": "修正意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/238.wav", + "text": "最後一項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/239.wav", + "text": "選舉公報應於投票日" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/240.wav", + "text": "二日前送達" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/241.wav", + "text": "選舉區內各戶" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/242.wav", + "text": "並應於選舉委員會網站" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/243.wav", + "text": "或以其他適當方式公開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/244.wav", + "text": "修正跟今天提供之" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/245.wav", + "text": "字略有差異" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/246.wav", + "text": "原來是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/247.wav", + "text": "送達選舉區內各戶" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/248.wav", + "text": "並張貼適當地點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/249.wav", + "text": "就是資訊要公開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/250.wav", + "text": "還要再上網就對了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/251.wav", + "text": "增加上網公告這" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/252.wav", + "text": "我們配合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/253.wav", + "text": "對所以這個部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/254.wav", + "text": "我們建議文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/255.wav", + "text": "再把它配合其他條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/256.wav", + "text": "其他條文因為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/257.wav", + "text": "沒有寫到中選會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/258.wav", + "text": "都是寫選舉委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/259.wav", + "text": "同一條也都是寫選舉委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/260.wav", + "text": "所以我們最後那個文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/261.wav", + "text": "希望改成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/262.wav", + "text": "並應於選舉委員會網站" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/263.wav", + "text": "或以其他適當方式公開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/264.wav", + "text": "你要用或以其他方式嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/265.wav", + "text": "其他適當方式公開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/266.wav", + "text": "用網站不也挺好的嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/267.wav", + "text": "可以包括張貼適當地點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/268.wav", + "text": "那你就變成二選一" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/269.wav", + "text": "也可以但是我們網頁" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/270.wav", + "text": "一定會公開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/271.wav", + "text": "改為及的話網站就一定要有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/272.wav", + "text": "我們尊重大院但是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/273.wav", + "text": "有沒有張貼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/274.wav", + "text": "本來就有張貼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/275.wav", + "text": "如果是或這樣變成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/276.wav", + "text": "就變成二選一嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/277.wav", + "text": "現在很少人會跑去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/278.wav", + "text": "所以改成及好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/279.wav", + "text": "建議用或彈性會比較大" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/280.wav", + "text": "但是你們都是會做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/281.wav", + "text": "我們不會選擇只用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/282.wav", + "text": "張貼適當地點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/283.wav", + "text": "讓你們比較有彈性就對了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/284.wav", + "text": "但是你還是會做啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/285.wav", + "text": "對比較有彈性如果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/286.wav", + "text": "為什麼會擔心寫及" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/287.wav", + "text": "你知道我的意思嗎" + }, + { + "audio": 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"audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/301.wav", + "text": "等一下我們一邊審你一邊準備起來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/302.wav", + "text": "著下一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/303.wav", + "text": "還是這一條等一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/304.wav", + "text": "第74條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/305.wav", + "text": "有關第74條主要是我們上次審議的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/306.wav", + "text": "把虛偽遷徙戶籍的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/307.wav", + "text": "也納為遞補的規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/308.wav", + "text": "所以我們現在必須把" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/309.wav", + "text": "第98條之1第1項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/310.wav", + "text": "虛偽遷徙戶籍的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/311.wav", + "text": "也納入第74條規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/312.wav", + "text": "所以如果落選後來補的那個人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/313.wav", + "text": "就可以對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/314.wav", + "text": "因為原來沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/315.wav", + "text": "連動修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/316.wav", + "text": "個大家沒意見啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/317.wav", + "text": "這個應該是沒問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/318.wav", + "text": "建議再修正條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/319.wav", + "text": "另外請中選會準備一下文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/320.wav", + "text": "第74條就照內政部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/321.wav", + "text": "內政部建議再修正條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/322.wav", + "text": "\n第一百十條呢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/323.wav", + "text": "修了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/324.wav", + "text": "對第6次修了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/325.wav", + "text": "也是條次的修正" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/326.wav", + "text": "這個是因為第九十八條" + }, + { + "audio": 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"這是之前所保留的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/341.wav", + "text": "修正動議即農會法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/342.wav", + "text": "\n請賴委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/343.wav", + "text": "我先來說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/344.wav", + "text": "當時我主張保留的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/345.wav", + "text": "原因主要有兩個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/346.wav", + "text": "農漁會深入地方事務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/347.wav", + "text": "除了協助農漁民外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/348.wav", + "text": "其實它同時也會處理金融事務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/349.wav", + "text": "所以它應該才是一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/350.wav", + "text": "具有重大影響力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/351.wav", + "text": "跟公共利益的人民團體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/352.wav", + "text": "重要性可能不小於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/353.wav", + "text": "政黨公職人員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/354.wav", + "text": "因為農漁會過去有一些" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/355.wav", + "text": "賄選的案例跟爭議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/356.wav", + "text": "所以在農會法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/357.wav", + "text": "漁會法裡面也都有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/358.wav", + "text": "行賄收賄等相關反黑金的刑事處罰" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/359.wav", + "text": "也就是說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/360.wav", + "text": "我主張保留的原因是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/361.wav", + "text": "農漁會並���是一般的人民團體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/362.wav", + "text": "他們其實也有和" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/363.wav", + "text": "其他人民團體不同的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/364.wav", + "text": "公共利益跟影響力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/365.wav", + "text": "也有相關規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/366.wav", + "text": "其立法精神和選罷法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/367.wav", + "text": "其實完全相同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/368.wav", + "text": "所以當時我才會提出這個草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/369.wav", + "text": "改成修正動議都要保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/370.wav", + "text": "這個我要先說清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/371.wav", + "text": "\n還有一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/372.wav", + "text": "我一定要跟民政司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/373.wav", + "text": "我會堅持保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/374.wav", + "text": "之前花了一個月左右" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/375.wav", + "text": "給了我三次回復內容是什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/376.wav", + "text": "都只有農漁會是人民團體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/377.wav", + "text": "連結性低" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/378.wav", + "text": "真的是非常不滿意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/379.wav", + "text": "除了沒有回答到我的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/380.wav", + "text": "你們也沒有給出完整的答復" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/381.wav", + "text": "我也要肯定內政部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/382.wav", + "text": "我後來說的理由" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/383.wav", + "text": "我能夠接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/384.wav", + "text": "也提供給各位委員參考" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/385.wav", + "text": "上禮拜有說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/386.wav", + "text": "目前一般公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/387.wav", + "text": "金融機構政黨農漁會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/388.wav", + "text": "或其他人民團體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/389.wav", + "text": "都有訂賄選妨害投票的規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/390.wav", + "text": "政黨相較農漁會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/391.wav", + "text": "更具有公職人員的相關性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/392.wav", + "text": "但是目前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/393.wav", + "text": "如果違反政黨法相關的賄選罪" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/394.wav", + "text": "是沒有納入選罷法的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/395.wav", + "text": "所以民政司告訴我" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/396.wav", + "text": "他們覺得如果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/397.wav", + "text": "在這個狀況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/398.wav", + "text": "把農漁會納入的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/399.wav", + "text": "民政司的舉例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/400.wav", + "text": "我也可以接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/401.wav", + "text": "就是在組織犯罪防制條例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/402.wav", + "text": "法官法和兩岸人民關係條例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/403.wav", + "text": "等相關專法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/404.wav", + "text": "也都有不得登記為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/405.wav", + "text": "公職候選人的明文限制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/406.wav", + "text": "這是基於專屬法律" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/407.wav", + "text": "對相關權利義務的特別規範" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/408.wav", + "text": "所以它其實是跟選罷法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/409.wav", + "text": "脫鉤處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/410.wav", + "text": "也有談到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/411.wav", + "text": "也許可以這樣處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/412.wav", + "text": "所以後來民政司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/413.wav", + "text": "這樣子的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/414.wav", + "text": "我就可以接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/415.wav", + "text": "因此我可以不堅持保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/416.wav", + "text": "但是我要再強調一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/417.wav", + "text": "之前會一直堅持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/418.wav", + "text": "是因為民政司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/419.wav", + "text": "連續三次給我的回復" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/420.wav", + "text": "都只有一句" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/421.wav", + "text": "要多溝通" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/422.wav", + "text": "真的是草草帶過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/423.wav", + "text": "所以我不能接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/424.wav", + "text": "要妥善處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/425.wav", + "text": "所以一直到這次協商前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/426.wav", + "text": "的第四次回復" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/427.wav", + "text": "才給我完整的說明回應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/428.wav", + "text": "我想如果第一次討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/429.wav", + "text": "就給出這樣的回復" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/430.wav", + "text": "其實就沒有什麼問題了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/431.wav", + "text": "民政司可以在逐條的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/432.wav", + "text": "就把你們的想法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/433.wav", + "text": "完整說明清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/434.wav", + "text": "讓更多委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/435.wav", + "text": "可以一起來參與討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/436.wav", + "text": "以上謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/437.wav", + "text": "謝謝賴委員很用心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/438.wav", + "text": "民政司也知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/439.wav", + "text": "像我們這麼認真地審法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/440.wav", + "text": "你們也要多做一點溝通" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/441.wav", + "text": "\n我們的想法是一致" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/442.wav", + "text": "這個部分就不予保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/443.wav", + "text": "第1款第2款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/444.wav", + "text": "民主社會裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/445.wav", + "text": "(我們是一個民主國家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/446.wav", + "text": ")會有很大的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/447.wav", + "text": "它的第一個結構是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/448.wav", + "text": "把特定的罪章挑出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/449.wav", + "text": "整個是一個罪章" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/450.wav", + "text": "它的條文裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/451.wav", + "text": "等於是一部特別刑法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/452.wav", + "text": "下一個動作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/453.wav", + "text": "它的法律效果叫做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/454.wav", + "text": "終身不得參選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/455.wav", + "text": "後面這個影響就大了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/456.wav", + "text": "在一個民主國家裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/457.wav", + "text": "參政權就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/458.wav", + "text": "你可以去參選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/459.wav", + "text": "跟過去帝制或獨裁國家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/460.wav", + "text": "他們到現在都沒辦法參選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/461.wav", + "text": "啊所以很多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/462.wav", + "text": "中國的維權律師來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/463.wav", + "text": "我跟他們聊天" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/464.wav", + "text": "他們都很羨慕我們說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/465.wav", + "text": "你們要選就選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/466.wav", + "text": "所以要去對這樣的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/467.wav", + "text": "而且是終身" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/468.wav", + "text": "表示你剝奪了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/469.wav", + "text": "他在這個共同體裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/470.wav", + "text": "一個非常重要的公民權利" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/14999/484.wav", + "text": "我的具體建議就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/485.wav", + "text": "不要這樣區分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/486.wav", + "text": "前面這些貪污治罪條例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/487.wav", + "text": "這些和臺灣這個共同體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/488.wav", + "text": "比較相關的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/489.wav", + "text": "終身不得參選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/490.wav", + "text": "但是後面這些" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/491.wav", + "text": "我舉個例子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/492.wav", + "text": "毒品危害防制條例百百種" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/493.wav", + "text": "現在有一半的收容人是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/494.wav", + "text": "你說他終身不得參選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/495.wav", + "text": "理由是什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/496.wav", + "text": "是意圖販賣而持有" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/14999/510.wav", + "text": "所以他也有可能被判幾個月" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/511.wav", + "text": "結果其法律效果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/512.wav", + "text": "也是終身不得參選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/513.wav", + "text": "是所以我跟你說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/514.wav", + "text": "這可以舉出很多例子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/515.wav", + "text": "我再舉一個例子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/516.wav", + "text": "砲我對這個最深惡痛絕" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/517.wav", + "text": "我一天到晚都在找刑事局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/518.wav", + "text": "我找刑事局調查局的目的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/519.wav", + "text": "是要他們去辦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/520.wav", + "text": "真的拿出公權力來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/521.wav", + "text": "我為什麼覺得這個很離譜" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/522.wav", + "text": "未經許可轉讓出租或出借子彈者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/523.wav", + "text": "也不是買" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/524.wav", + "text": "是出借子彈" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/525.wav", + "text": "槍也會有點關係" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/526.wav", + "text": "如果要這樣講的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/527.wav", + "text": "我們就規定只要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/528.wav", + "text": "我們也不會這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/529.wav", + "text": "我要跟你舉例的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/530.wav", + "text": "比如像這部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/531.wav", + "text": "處六個月以上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/532.wav", + "text": "五年以下有期徒刑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/533.wav", + "text": "七個月之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/534.wav", + "text": "不好意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/535.wav", + "text": "你這輩子連里長都不能選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/536.wav", + "text": "所以這是個嚴重的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/537.wav", + "text": "本來我們沒辦法選立委" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/538.wav", + "text": "我們才開始有第二屆的立委" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/539.wav", + "text": "1996年我大學的時候我們才開始" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/540.wav", + "text": "都可以選總統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/541.wav", + "text": "過去我們無法想像" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/542.wav", + "text": "陳玉珍可以選總統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/543.wav", + "text": "怎麼想像" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/544.wav", + "text": "從前的人說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/545.wav", + "text": "我要選總統就被抓去關了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/546.wav", + "text": "所以現在的狀況反而是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/547.wav", + "text": "你去限制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/548.wav", + "text": "我們好不容易" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/549.wav", + "text": "好不容易是華人世界唯一的民主" + 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"text": "先讓他們說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/790.wav", + "text": "等一下我的時間都留給你" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/791.wav", + "text": "我主張全案保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/792.wav", + "text": "讓更多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/793.wav", + "text": "我們就照我們審的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/794.wav", + "text": "當然到了院會還可以再提出來啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/795.wav", + "text": "這有什麼關係" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/796.wav", + "text": "真的會陷我們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/797.wav", + "text": "律師就是認為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/798.wav", + "text": "為這有違反比例原則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/799.wav", + "text": "莊委員說了一個例子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/800.wav", + "text": "我們一款一款來討論好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/801.wav", + "text": "大家不要一直講理論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/802.wav", + "text": "我說一下" + }, + 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}, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1038.wav", + "text": "版本就是變成這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1039.wav", + "text": "對但這是委員提案版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1040.wav", + "text": "大家能支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1041.wav", + "text": "不是修正後的院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1042.wav", + "text": "還是哪裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1043.wav", + "text": "就是修正後的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1044.wav", + "text": "修正後的院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1045.wav", + "text": "你今天準備的這一份嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1046.wav", + "text": "是4月13" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1047.wav", + "text": "是這一份嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1048.wav", + "text": "有什麼差別我看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1049.wav", + "text": "你們可不可以也看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1050.wav", + "text": "我看我們審查通過的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1051.wav", + "text": "國安組織" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1052.wav", + "text": "毒品有罪判決" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1053.wav", + "text": "緩刑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1054.wav", + "text": "加原住民" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1055.wav", + "text": "組織這個沒有錯嘛\n組織這個沒有改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1056.wav", + "text": "司長看一下是不是這一份" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1057.wav", + "text": "你要不要看一下科長你看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1058.wav", + "text": "這是不是4月13日那份" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1059.wav", + "text": "份現在行政院的版本就是4月13日的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1060.wav", + "text": "沒關係不然照它的修正版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1061.wav", + "text": "也可以反正到時候還要討論你還是會再講一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1062.wav", + "text": "我們要確定一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1063.wav", + "text": "我們今天討論的內容" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1064.wav", + "text": "容你再簽名" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1065.wav", + "text": "\n邱顯智委員先簽一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1066.wav", + "text": "不然等一下再找你嗎就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1067.wav", + "text": "剛剛那幾條已經有過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1068.wav", + "text": "這幾條都過了要刪掉你先看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1069.wav", + "text": "對對對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1070.wav", + "text": "剩下我一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1071.wav", + "text": "你們看一下是不是這一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1072.wav", + "text": "這是正確的嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1073.wav", + "text": "我們附這個嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1074.wav", + "text": "沒關係就用你們的他到時候還" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1075.wav", + "text": "會再講30分鐘嘛反正我們到時候還" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1076.wav", + "text": "要再去院長那邊講30分鐘" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1077.wav", + "text": "因為這個到時候院長協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1078.wav", + "text": "我看一下是不是這兩個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1079.wav", + "text": "說我有這兩個版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1080.wav", + "text": "我們是不是把這兩個都" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1081.wav", + "text": "併案放在裡頭可以這樣子嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1082.wav", + "text": "\n因為內政部希望是這個嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1083.wav", + "text": "行政院修正版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1084.wav", + "text": "啦我們是這個提案版嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1085.wav", + "text": "嘛\n我看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1086.wav", + "text": "啦事實上我是把他的也納進去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1087.wav", + "text": "啦就這兩個來調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1088.wav", + "text": "可以多兩個嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1089.wav", + "text": "行政院的修正版啦這是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1090.wav", + "text": "啦科長看過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1091.wav", + "text": "就這個版本嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1092.wav", + "text": "好你註明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1093.wav", + "text": "一個是行政院修正版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1094.wav", + "text": "一個是邱顯智和我們提出來的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1095.wav", + "text": "協商好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1096.wav", + "text": "對對對沒關係就提這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1097.wav", + "text": "就這兩個併案讓甲乙兩案去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1098.wav", + "text": "協商啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1099.wav", + "text": "都給科長看過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1100.wav", + "text": "才不會有錯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1101.wav", + "text": "我們的黨團助理也都看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1102.wav", + "text": "看這個版對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1103.wav", + "text": "行政院的一個是我們提出來的反正這兩個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1104.wav", + "text": "甲案乙案就送上去協商啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1105.wav", + "text": "這樣可以吧" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1106.wav", + "text": "剩下的我來宣告一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1107.wav", + "text": "朝野協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1108.wav", + "text": "就很容易了嘛對不對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1109.wav", + "text": "在那兩點就甲案乙案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1110.wav", + "text": "\n我來唸一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1111.wav", + "text": "今天我們協商總統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1112.wav", + "text": "協商結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1113.wav", + "text": "今天協商通過的條文為第44條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1114.wav", + "text": "增訂第47條之3" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1115.wav", + "text": "第9條及第96條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1116.wav", + "text": "項次條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1117.wav", + "text": "條次引述條文之文字及相關法制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1118.wav", + "text": "用語授權主席及議事人員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1119.wav", + "text": "審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1120.wav", + "text": "免法的部分就不用送朝野協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1121.wav", + "text": "免法大家都沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1122.wav", + "text": "了\n有關今天協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1123.wav", + "text": "罷免法部分條文修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1124.wav", + "text": "我們修了74條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1125.wav", + "text": "協商通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1126.wav", + "text": "第32條第47條增訂第" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1127.wav", + "text": "51條之3第74條第104條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1128.wav", + "text": "我們會附附件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1129.wav", + "text": "注意看一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1130.wav", + "text": "保留條文為第二十六條我們保留了兩個案子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1131.wav", + "text": "就是行政院的再修正版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1132.wav", + "text": "再建議修正版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1133.wav", + "text": "這個是我們在黨團協商提出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1134.wav", + "text": "的就將甲案乙案送到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1135.wav", + "text": "朝野協商讓游院長來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1136.wav", + "text": "但是委員會通過的還是要改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1137.wav", + "text": "因為後面就沒有了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1138.wav", + "text": "不用再討論了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1139.wav", + "text": "條文條次引述條文之文字及相關法制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1140.wav", + "text": "用語授權主席及議事人員整理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1141.wav", + "text": "大家沒意見吧" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1142.wav", + "text": "好謝謝大家辛苦了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14999/1143.wav", + "text": "\n今天會議到此結��" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/0.wav", + "text": "須交由黨團協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/1.wav", + "text": "將委員楊瓊瓔等16人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/2.wav", + "text": "自委員會抽出逕付二讀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/3.wav", + "text": "與相關提案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/4.wav", + "text": "併案協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/5.wav", + "text": "就保留條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/6.wav", + "text": "保留條文處理完畢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/7.wav", + "text": "併說明並請" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/8.wav", + "text": "主席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/9.wav", + "text": "問各位附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/10.wav", + "text": "第1條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/11.wav", + "text": "第2條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/15001/12.wav", + "text": "附帶決議還有一個修" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/0.wav", + "text": "本日協商關於農業部組織法草案等相關法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/1.wav", + "text": "經濟部組織法修正草案等相關法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/2.wav", + "text": "交通部組織法修正草案等相關法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/3.wav", + "text": "及核能安全委員會組織法草案\n等相關法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/4.wav", + "text": "共計4個主題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/5.wav", + "text": "稍後按協商通知排序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/6.wav", + "text": "依序進行協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/7.wav", + "text": "逐案進行協商協商時請參閱審查報告及逕付二讀提案關係文書" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/8.wav", + "text": "與會委員如有修正動議或機關有建議內容請提出書面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/9.wav", + "text": "印發給現場進行討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/10.wav", + "text": "農業部組織法草案等相關法案共16案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/11.wav", + "text": "審查會先前已於4月10日審查完竣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/12.wav", + "text": "審查結果除了第1案農業部組織法草案第5條保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/13.wav", + "text": "第5案農業部林業及自然保育署組織法草案第5條保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/14.wav", + "text": "其餘均有審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/15.wav", + "text": "並決議在院會討論前須交由黨團協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/16.wav", + "text": "另院會再將委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具農業部組織法草案逕付二讀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/17.wav", + "text": "委員蘇治芬等16人擬具農業部組織法草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/18.wav", + "text": "自委員會抽出逕付二讀與相關提案併案協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/19.wav", + "text": "為求效率我們先就保留條文進行討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/20.wav", + "text": "如各位協商代表對審查會通過條文有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/21.wav", + "text": "待保留條文處理完畢後再接續進行處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/22.wav", + "text": "請問各位有無意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/23.wav", + "text": "如果沒有我們先請與會機關代表針對保留條文一併說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/24.wav", + "text": "並請出席委員討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/25.wav", + "text": "\n請農委會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/26.wav", + "text": "在行政院有一個水庫集水區保育綱要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/27.wav", + "text": "裡面牽扯到包括經濟部農委會交通部環保署內政部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/28.wav", + "text": "其實在目前的作業不管從法識面計畫面或執行面都有明確的分工" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/29.wav", + "text": "做集水區區域特別集中計畫或是哪個機關來做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/30.wav", + "text": "如果委員針對特定的區域需要我們來處理以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/31.wav", + "text": "以個案方式我們都樂意去處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/32.wav", + "text": "以上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/33.wav", + "text": "我覺得副主委根本沒有做功課就來亂講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/34.wav", + "text": "耶現在都很好我們95年水庫集水區" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/35.wav", + "text": "或者現在水源區都沒有問題了嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/36.wav", + "text": "你們農委會所負責的水保或者水質相關的都沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/37.wav", + "text": "怎麼會這樣子說呢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/38.wav", + "text": "謝謝委員提出來關切" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/39.wav", + "text": "我覺得你要做功課再來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/40.wav", + "text": "現在就是各部會明顯不足才會這麼辛苦去提出這個要求" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/41.wav", + "text": "嘛你今天卻說都沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/42.wav", + "text": "簡直在胡說八道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/43.wav", + "text": "應該這樣說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/44.wav", + "text": "但以現行的運作方式是由各部會一起來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/45.wav", + "text": "現行的運作就是有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/46.wav", + "text": "而且問題很嚴重" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/47.wav", + "text": "簡直是病入膏肓了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/48.wav", + "text": "95年是生病而現在是病入膏肓" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/49.wav", + "text": "所以95年水庫集水區保育綱要就是說要成立管理單位嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/50.wav", + "text": "而你還不處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/51.wav", + "text": "你講這什麼話怎麼能解決問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/52.wav", + "text": "這麼多年現在總算要組改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/53.wav", + "text": "就是要趁組改時把這個問題解決嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/54.wav", + "text": "這完全是不負責任不做功課的作法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/55.wav", + "text": "謝謝委員關心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/56.wav", + "text": "什麼關心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/57.wav", + "text": "你自己要做功課再來回答" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/58.wav", + "text": "啊至少你要去聽聽看上次你們主委怎麼講的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/59.wav", + "text": "其實集水區的問題本來就是由經濟部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/60.wav", + "text": "跟我們環保署以及內政部一起來運作的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/61.wav", + "text": "現在的運作就是沒有辦法有效的解決" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/62.wav", + "text": "沒有特定區的管理機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/63.wav", + "text": "所以現在巡查人力也不足" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/64.wav", + "text": "現在問題就是這樣啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/65.wav", + "text": "你都不瞭解" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/66.wav", + "text": "就說現在的機制運作的很好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/67.wav", + "text": "及水利的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/68.wav", + "text": "現在組改要來解決啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/69.wav", + "text": "所以95年時才說10年要完成組改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/70.wav", + "text": "然後要成立管理單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/71.wav", + "text": "就是95年就發現這個問題很嚴重但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/72.wav", + "text": "但現在你們組改又不處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/73.wav", + "text": "說現在運作很好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/74.wav", + "text": "這誰可以接受啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/75.wav", + "text": "都有逐年在處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/76.wav", + "text": "但是有些問題確實是因為氣候變遷" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/77.wav", + "text": "你又推給氣候變遷" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/78.wav", + "text": "怎麼會這樣呢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/79.wav", + "text": "這一定是有影響" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/80.wav", + "text": "現在的機制其實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/81.wav", + "text": "現在的問題就是沒解決" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/82.wav", + "text": "但你剛剛說都解決得很好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/83.wav", + "text": "你告訴我怎麼解決得很好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/84.wav", + "text": "人力不夠巡查也不夠" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/85.wav", + "text": "你怎麼會說現在運作得很好呢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/86.wav", + "text": "水質越來越差你知不知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/87.wav", + "text": "以現在的運作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/88.wav", + "text": "現在的運作也都沒有管到水質" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/89.wav", + "text": "副主委你不用急著一直回應嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/90.wav", + "text": "\n洪委員要表達意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/91.wav", + "text": "做一些說明這個是可以理解的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/92.wav", + "text": "但是我真的覺得你剛才回答說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/93.wav", + "text": "現在這些機制運作得很好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/94.wav", + "text": "這個只是徒增讓大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/95.wav", + "text": "想要吐槽的動力而已" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/96.wav", + "text": "因為有非常多地方都可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/97.wav", + "text": "列舉出現在運作上的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/98.wav", + "text": "所以我真的不覺得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/99.wav", + "text": "農委會現在這個回答方式是好的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/100.wav", + "text": "謝謝委員提醒" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/101.wav", + "text": "應該是可以解決把它做得更好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/102.wav", + "text": "應該是集所有公務機關可以使用的人力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/103.wav", + "text": "用最好的協調方式去做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/104.wav", + "text": "我剛剛的發言是抗議啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/105.wav", + "text": "現在我們要透過組改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/106.wav", + "text": "把問題提出來然後予以解決" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/107.wav", + "text": "我們現在就是要來協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/108.wav", + "text": "就要針對水庫集水區(流域)的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/109.wav", + "text": "但是沒有啊所以我們現在才來問" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/110.wav", + "text": "在水庫集水區的水保部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/111.wav", + "text": "於經濟部的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/112.wav", + "text": "我有提出修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/113.wav", + "text": "如果我們在這次組改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/114.wav", + "text": "沒有時間來處理的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/115.wav", + "text": "因為這個是跨部會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/116.wav", + "text": "的工作這個在水庫集水區保育綱要裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/117.wav", + "text": "就是需要跨部會來整合的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/118.wav", + "text": "所以我的附帶決議就是請行政院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/119.wav", + "text": "行政院人事行政總處" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/120.wav", + "text": "經濟部農委會環保署在本次組改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/121.wav", + "text": "時一併檢討相關工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/122.wav", + "text": "也就是行政院要成立專責的組織" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/123.wav", + "text": "專責的單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/124.wav", + "text": "讓分散在各部會的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/125.wav", + "text": "能夠整合來執行他們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/126.wav", + "text": "實際上應該做的工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/127.wav", + "text": "因為現在沒有整合嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/128.wav", + "text": "第8屆的時候有整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/129.wav", + "text": "那時候是要整合環資部但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/130.wav", + "text": "也沒辦法去做到這個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/131.wav", + "text": "所以現在行政院一定要有一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/132.wav", + "text": "專責的協調單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/133.wav", + "text": "來負責跨部會協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/134.wav", + "text": "然後在政策綱領的訂定跟預算的分配" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/135.wav", + "text": "上要變成一個實質的運作單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/136.wav", + "text": "農委會水保局林務局經濟部水利署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/137.wav", + "text": "污水下水道的相關單位都要整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/138.wav", + "text": "水庫集水區的相關保育工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/139.wav", + "text": "\n目前很重要的就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/140.wav", + "text": "水質以往都沒有被重視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/141.wav", + "text": "我們要怎麼樣訂" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/142.wav", + "text": "我們在附帶決議二的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/143.wav", + "text": "就是要求增加相關的巡查人力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/144.wav", + "text": "我今天是已經沒有辦法了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/145.wav", + "text": "人總也跟我提過來不及" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/146.wav", + "text": "本來是主決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/147.wav", + "text": "現在改為附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/148.wav", + "text": "來不及的部分能在本屆任期內" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/149.wav", + "text": "能夠完成使其能實質的運作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/150.wav", + "text": "這是今天我對於農業部組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/151.wav", + "text": "所提出的要求" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/152.wav", + "text": "就是要能夠同意這樣來進行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/153.wav", + "text": "還好主委來了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/154.wav", + "text": "不然你們很危險" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/155.wav", + "text": "\n接下來請洪申翰委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/156.wav", + "text": "這些相關自然資源的管理跟治理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/157.wav", + "text": "需要一個程度" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/158.wav", + "text": "或是跟過去有不一樣方式的整合工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/159.wav", + "text": "就像剛才所說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/160.wav", + "text": "的這些自然資源的管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/161.wav", + "text": "坦白說現在是存在著滿多問題的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/162.wav", + "text": "並不像剛剛副主委所說的沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/163.wav", + "text": "陳委員所提的決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/164.wav", + "text": "我先說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/165.wav", + "text": "我提議保留的原因" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/166.wav", + "text": "因為水庫的集水區" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/167.wav", + "text": "尤其是關於水庫的相關管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/168.wav", + "text": "其實主責單位應該是經濟部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/169.wav", + "text": "可能會跟農委會有關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/170.wav", + "text": "但假如是以水庫為主要的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/171.wav", + "text": "其實主責是經濟部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/172.wav", + "text": "也許還包括行政院可以再討論一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/173.wav", + "text": "怎麼去處理這個問題的一些方案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/174.wav", + "text": "但我認為這個問題是需要處理的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/175.wav", + "text": "這是我的建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/176.wav", + "text": "接下來請陳委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/177.wav", + "text": "我其實是不反對啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/178.wav", + "text": "不過我覺得主責的就是行政院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/179.wav", + "text": "而且以土地的管理來說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/180.wav", + "text": "經濟部根本沒有土地的管理權" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/181.wav", + "text": "所以由行政院來成立一個主責單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/182.wav", + "text": "負責協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/183.wav", + "text": "這個是很重要的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/184.wav", + "text": "經濟部在目前的水利法之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/185.wav", + "text": "只有管到水庫蓄水範圍" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/186.wav", + "text": "在不夠的情況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/187.wav", + "text": "情況下經濟部根本沒辦法主責啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/188.wav", + "text": "我當然也不反對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/189.wav", + "text": "但是它包不下來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/190.wav", + "text": "吃不下啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/191.wav", + "text": "我要主委同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/192.wav", + "text": "水保的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/193.wav", + "text": "如果未來我們透過協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/194.wav", + "text": "大範圍的自來水保護區" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/195.wav", + "text": "因為目前劃設變更都是經濟部水利署負責" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/196.wav", + "text": "但是我們只靠水利署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/197.wav", + "text": "只靠經濟部是沒有辦法做好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/198.wav", + "text": "水庫集水區大範圍面積的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/199.wav", + "text": "管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/200.wav", + "text": "所以本席所提出的主決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/201.wav", + "text": "或是經濟部這邊來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/202.wav", + "text": "林務局也要提撥相關人力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/203.wav", + "text": "還有內政部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/204.wav", + "text": "這樣才有辦法把這個工作做好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/205.wav", + "text": "能夠好好來討論相關的機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/206.wav", + "text": "以上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/207.wav", + "text": "請主委回應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/208.wav", + "text": "主席各位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/209.wav", + "text": "因為早上參加經濟委員會安排的考察" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/210.wav", + "text": "這個理念就是把山水土林" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/211.wav", + "text": "整合在一起" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/212.wav", + "text": "為國家永續" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/213.wav", + "text": "這個理念我們完全贊成" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/214.wav", + "text": "這是第一個說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/215.wav", + "text": "\n第二個有關未來的農業部感謝所有委員的支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/216.wav", + "text": "要把山水土林整合在一個單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/217.wav", + "text": "是不可能的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/218.wav", + "text": "全部歸於農業部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/219.wav", + "text": "而且林務局將來是變成林務及自然保育署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/220.wav", + "text": "不只是負責林業的生產" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/221.wav", + "text": "自然保育更是重要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/222.wav", + "text": "所以未來只要不是水庫集水區域的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/223.wav", + "text": "範圍其相關所有水土保持工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/224.wav", + "text": "林相的維護" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/225.wav", + "text": "等等這些都是要由未來的農業部負責" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/226.wav", + "text": "這是第二個說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/227.wav", + "text": "農產品安全或環境安全為例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/228.wav", + "text": "這三個都非常重要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/229.wav", + "text": "或是委員之前非常在乎的灌排不分離" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/230.wav", + "text": "這個也是有在院裡跨部會協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/231.wav", + "text": "所以實際上不可能會有所謂行政院的一個單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/232.wav", + "text": "來解決所有的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/233.wav", + "text": "所以是否就依委員主決議的建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/234.wav", + "text": "由行政院來跨部會協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/235.wav", + "text": "尤其是集水區(域)裡面所有的水土保持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/236.wav", + "text": "或是相關工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/237.wav", + "text": "的確不可能院突然再成立一個單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/238.wav", + "text": "反而是應把合作協調的機制建立起來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/239.wav", + "text": "以及委員所期待的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/240.wav", + "text": "會更容易達到這樣一個願景" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/241.wav", + "text": "只要把文中成立一個專責單位的部分劃掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/242.wav", + "text": "但若是集水區以外的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/243.wav", + "text": "其實在權責上很清楚的就是由農業部負責" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/244.wav", + "text": "我不知道你說的文字修改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/245.wav", + "text": "不需要成立一個專責單位嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/246.wav", + "text": "體上是由行政院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/247.wav", + "text": "來做整合在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/248.wav", + "text": "才能實際落實相關的工作" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/249.wav", + "text": "因為之前水庫集水區管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/250.wav", + "text": "綱要是提到要成立水庫集水區的管理單位但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/251.wav", + "text": "但現在我們沒有辦法依照那個綱要來成立管理單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/252.wav", + "text": "即現在管理單位的層級" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/253.wav", + "text": "現在就是要行政院在實質上有一個單位來整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/254.wav", + "text": "未來農委會水保局林務局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/255.wav", + "text": "所以如果行政院沒有一個單位來做整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/256.wav", + "text": "未來還是一樣各做各的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/257.wav", + "text": "那就沒有辦法有效地做好管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/258.wav", + "text": "因為我們沒有辦法配合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/259.wav", + "text": "之前95年的綱要來做特定區" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/260.wav", + "text": "但我們目前也不能夠過於鬆散" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/261.wav", + "text": "所以行政院還是要負起責任" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/262.wav", + "text": "因為這次就是行政院在討論組改的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/263.wav", + "text": "沒有把這塊納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/264.wav", + "text": "所以行政院還是要負責任" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/265.wav", + "text": "專責單位來負責協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/266.wav", + "text": "負責協調的單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/267.wav", + "text": "或是行政院再去討論要如何來執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/268.wav", + "text": "總之我們就是提出這個附帶決議讓行政院決定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/269.wav", + "text": "因為你提的是由行政院層級" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/270.wav", + "text": "召集成立這樣一個專責單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/271.wav", + "text": "基本上今天列席都是部會首長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/272.wav", + "text": "所以應該沒有一個人可以去答復這個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/273.wav", + "text": "\n其二" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/274.wav", + "text": "所以協商可能到最後還是要送到院長那邊協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/275.wav", + "text": "再加上後面還有很多部會在等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/276.wav", + "text": "好不好農委會如果有好的建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/277.wav", + "text": "也請將修正的文字提供給陳委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/278.wav", + "text": "或許可以加快速度" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/279.wav", + "text": "這樣應該可以吧" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/280.wav", + "text": "我講一句話陳主委" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/281.wav", + "text": "這個單位只是一個協調機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/282.wav", + "text": "所以還是要有一個具體的協調機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/283.wav", + "text": "而不是一個會報" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/284.wav", + "text": "那個效果真的是不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/285.wav", + "text": "我們會再跟陳委員討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/286.wav", + "text": "論看看主決議的文字要如何修改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/287.wav", + "text": "好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/288.wav", + "text": "所以附帶決議第1案我們就保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/289.wav", + "text": "\n請問各位附帶決議第2案有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/290.wav", + "text": "其實在整個組改的過程中" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/291.wav", + "text": "我們都一定會優先考慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/292.wav", + "text": "在執行相關業務上所需要的人力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/293.wav", + "text": "但是要跟委員報告的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/294.wav", + "text": "因為集水區的區域很大" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/295.wav", + "text": "我們會建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/296.wav", + "text": "不管是經濟部或農委會(未來的農業部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/297.wav", + "text": "要善用資訊科技設備" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/298.wav", + "text": "事實上他們應是混搭的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/299.wav", + "text": "外該補的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/300.wav", + "text": "員也應適當的依照業務的量能" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/301.wav", + "text": "新的業務若需要人員去執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/302.wav", + "text": "我們一定會補上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/303.wav", + "text": "但是我們也要提醒農委會及經濟部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/304.wav", + "text": "要善用相關科技設備" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/305.wav", + "text": "所以本人建議為了公務人員的生命安全" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/306.wav", + "text": "是可以用科技設備來做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/307.wav", + "text": "可以通過嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/308.wav", + "text": "從人總的說明就可以知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/309.wav", + "text": "它的面積真的太大" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/310.wav", + "text": "檢討之後該增加的就增加" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/311.wav", + "text": "我的附帶決議也是這樣的意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/312.wav", + "text": "就請各位支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/313.wav", + "text": "陳委員我是建議先保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/314.wav", + "text": "甚至我真的認為相關的整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/315.wav", + "text": "甚至不只是水庫集水區" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/316.wav", + "text": "可能還包括更多其他的自然資源" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/317.wav", + "text": "像我自己也一直跟行政院要求希望推動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/318.wav", + "text": "這些相關自然資源整合的機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/319.wav", + "text": "我覺得重點是機制" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/320.wav", + "text": "不是只有開一次會議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/321.wav", + "text": "我是建議先保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/322.wav", + "text": "就算人事長現在同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/323.wav", + "text": "也一樣會保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/324.wav", + "text": "因為到時黨團要簽字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/325.wav", + "text": "召委我同意保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/326.wav", + "text": "只是這個範圍已經很大了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/327.wav", + "text": "集中在水庫集水區(流" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/328.wav", + "text": "至於如果有其他的那就另外再" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/329.wav", + "text": "了謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/330.wav", + "text": "至於農業部組織法草案第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/331.wav", + "text": "還有農業部林業及自然保育署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/332.wav", + "text": "組織法草案也一樣保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/333.wav", + "text": "併案送院會協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/334.wav", + "text": "謝謝現在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/335.wav", + "text": "現在處理主題二" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/336.wav", + "text": "經濟部組織法修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/337.wav", + "text": "等相關法案共11案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/338.wav", + "text": "審查會於4月12日審查完竣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/339.wav", + "text": "審查結果保留條文有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/340.wav", + "text": "經濟部組織法修正草案第2條第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/341.wav", + "text": "經濟部產業發展署組織法草案第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/342.wav", + "text": "經濟部能源署組織法草案第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/343.wav", + "text": "經濟部中小及新創企業署組織法草案第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/344.wav", + "text": "經濟部水利署組織法草案第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/345.wav", + "text": "經濟部礦業管理及地質調查中心組織法草案名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/346.wav", + "text": "及第1條至第6條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/347.wav", + "text": "其餘均依審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/348.wav", + "text": "並決議院會討論前須交由黨團協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/349.wav", + "text": "院會再將委員楊瓊瓔等16人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/350.wav", + "text": "擬具經濟部組織法修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/351.wav", + "text": "等20案分別逕付二讀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/352.wav", + "text": "自委員會抽出逕付二讀與相關提案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/353.wav", + "text": "併案協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/354.wav", + "text": "如果各位協商代表對審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/355.wav", + "text": "會通過條文有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/356.wav", + "text": "待保留條文處理完畢後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/357.wav", + "text": "再接續進行處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/358.wav", + "text": "請問各位有無意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/359.wav", + "text": "主席太快了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/360.wav", + "text": "現在保留是從第2條嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/361.wav", + "text": "對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/362.wav", + "text": "經濟部組織法修正草案第2條跟第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/363.wav", + "text": "我剛才都有宣讀過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/364.wav", + "text": "我們要求在組改的時候改名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/365.wav", + "text": "第一個是第9條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/366.wav", + "text": "要改為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/367.wav", + "text": "地質及礦業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/368.wav", + "text": "就是這個名稱要改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/369.wav", + "text": "不好意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/370.wav", + "text": "請問這部分是不是已經同意了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/371.wav", + "text": "請說明一下好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/372.wav", + "text": "你說第幾條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/373.wav", + "text": "哪一個組織法的第幾條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/374.wav", + "text": "經濟部的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/375.wav", + "text": "經濟部組織法只有第2條跟第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/376.wav", + "text": "第2條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/377.wav", + "text": "就是名稱的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/378.wav", + "text": "第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/379.wav", + "text": "第5條就是礦業管理跟地質調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/380.wav", + "text": "我們的修正動議就是針對這個名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/381.wav", + "text": "第10款是不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/382.wav", + "text": "要改為地質及礦業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/383.wav", + "text": "在第5條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/384.wav", + "text": "第2條比較沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/385.wav", + "text": "就是地質調查及礦業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/386.wav", + "text": "那個名稱要改過來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/387.wav", + "text": "次級機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/388.wav", + "text": "然後第1條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/389.wav", + "text": "我先請洪申翰委員講一下好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/390.wav", + "text": "因為他舉手很久了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/391.wav", + "text": "礦業管理及地質調查中心組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/392.wav", + "text": "我們其實有提一個修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/393.wav", + "text": "對不起這個修正動議的名稱是寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/394.wav", + "text": "經濟部地質與礦業中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/395.wav", + "text": "但我原本的意思應該是要寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/396.wav", + "text": "經濟部地質調查與礦業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/397.wav", + "text": "就是把經濟部的原案改成地質調查與礦業管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/398.wav", + "text": "包括第1條也是把地質調查跟礦業的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/399.wav", + "text": "這些相關的條文都保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/400.wav", + "text": "我就一併講完所以名稱改成經濟部地質調查與礦業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/401.wav", + "text": "第1條改成經濟部為辦理全國地質調查及礦業土石資源管理業務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/402.wav", + "text": "特設地質調查與礦業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/403.wav", + "text": "請看我提議的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/404.wav", + "text": "第7款為其他有關地質調查及礦業土石資源及管理事項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/405.wav", + "text": "以上是我今天提出的修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/406.wav", + "text": "上次所提的修正動議今天好像都沒有看到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/407.wav", + "text": "關於第5條的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/408.wav", + "text": "之前在協商的時候有提出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/409.wav", + "text": "經濟部是不是可以同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/410.wav", + "text": "這部分就是把名稱對調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/411.wav", + "text": "也就是地質調查及礦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/412.wav", + "text": "業管理中心" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/413.wav", + "text": "所以基本上就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/414.wav", + "text": "因為我們現在是協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/415.wav", + "text": "如果有需要就再提修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/416.wav", + "text": "今天沒有再提" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/417.wav", + "text": "但還是有這個意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/418.wav", + "text": "請把名稱對調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/419.wav", + "text": "經濟部部長要不要簡單回應一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/420.wav", + "text": "謝謝委員一直很關心地質調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/421.wav", + "text": "放在前或放在後的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/422.wav", + "text": "確實也會涉及到經濟部組織法第2條第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/423.wav", + "text": "以及礦業管理及地質調查中心組織法的全部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/424.wav", + "text": "因為它是整套的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/425.wav", + "text": "經濟部就這部分的立場" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/426.wav", + "text": "絕對沒有要矮化地質調查的意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/427.wav", + "text": "只是委員一直非常在乎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/428.wav", + "text": "應該誰在前誰在後的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/429.wav", + "text": "非常非常多的業務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/430.wav", + "text": "而且一做不是三五年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/431.wav", + "text": "可能二十年內都非常忙碌" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/432.wav", + "text": "絕對沒有要貶抑地質調查的意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/433.wav", + "text": "我先作一個簡單的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/434.wav", + "text": "先請賴委員發言" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/435.wav", + "text": "再換陳委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/436.wav", + "text": "謝謝主席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/437.wav", + "text": "剛剛提到礦業管理及地質調查中心組織法草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/438.wav", + "text": "我們接到一些學界的陳情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/439.wav", + "text": "也還不完全瞭解經濟部現在的政策性方向" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/440.wav", + "text": "現在條文是全案保留嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/441.wav", + "text": "經濟部是不是應該再" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/442.wav", + "text": "再擇期跟學界的朋友們溝通清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/443.wav", + "text": "包括剛剛講到法案名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/444.wav", + "text": "涵蓋性應該要廣以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/445.wav", + "text": "以及這個中心的核心業務為何" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/446.wav", + "text": "應該要把定性訂清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/447.wav", + "text": "今天要審經濟部的好幾個部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/448.wav", + "text": "地調的部分是不是可以暫時再保留一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/449.wav", + "text": "這是我的建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/450.wav", + "text": "因為國民黨黨團沒有出席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/451.wav", + "text": "\n請陳委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/452.wav", + "text": "因為照你剛剛說明的邏輯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/453.wav", + "text": "反正誰在前誰在後都可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/454.wav", + "text": "我在多次質詢中都很清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/455.wav", + "text": "說明由於整個世界對於地質調查的重視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/456.wav", + "text": "而設有地質調查所" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/457.wav", + "text": "我們只是維持這個名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/458.wav", + "text": "讓地質調查的重要性能凸顯" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/459.wav", + "text": "並且不會被矮化" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/460.wav", + "text": "我順便講一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/461.wav", + "text": "因為我疏忽了所以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/462.wav", + "text": "我們沒有再提修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/463.wav", + "text": "還是一樣會再強調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/464.wav", + "text": "今天我們多個黨團也都支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/465.wav", + "text": "把地質調查放在前面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/466.wav", + "text": "也希望經濟部能夠支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/467.wav", + "text": "剛剛一直有跟各位說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/468.wav", + "text": "因為國民黨團都沒有到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/469.wav", + "text": "基本上還是會保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/470.wav", + "text": "有提修正動議再修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/471.wav", + "text": "還有附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/472.wav", + "text": "送院會協商好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/473.wav", + "text": "附帶決議再說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/474.wav", + "text": "附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/475.wav", + "text": "我提了二個附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/476.wav", + "text": "那二個附帶決議其實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/477.wav", + "text": "跟剛剛農業部是一樣的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/478.wav", + "text": "為什麼經濟部的部分我們還是要再提" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/479.wav", + "text": "各界當然是覺得水庫集水區用水" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/480.wav", + "text": "跟經濟部是非常重要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/481.wav", + "text": "但是事實上經濟部目前的編制人力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/482.wav", + "text": "絕對是不夠的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/483.wav", + "text": "也沒有權責" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/484.wav", + "text": "也希望經濟部能夠去重視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/485.wav", + "text": "能夠講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/486.wav", + "text": "就是希望能夠成立北中南東" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/487.wav", + "text": "水庫集水區管理的分署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/488.wav", + "text": "我在院協商也會提" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/489.wav", + "text": "只是如果那個困難度更大" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/490.wav", + "text": "總的疏忽" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/491.wav", + "text": "假如經濟部是主要的用水單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/492.wav", + "text": "也希望經濟部能夠接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/493.wav", + "text": "譬如說由水利署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/494.wav", + "text": "因為我之前修正動議的分署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/495.wav", + "text": "是寫在水利署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/496.wav", + "text": "就是比照臺北水源特定區管理單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/497.wav", + "text": "所以還是希望未來的整合移撥" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/498.wav", + "text": "能夠移撥到水利署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/499.wav", + "text": "在討論的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/500.wav", + "text": "能夠讓水庫集水區的管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/501.wav", + "text": "讓一��病入膏肓的單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/502.wav", + "text": "能夠有起死回生的機會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/503.wav", + "text": "剛剛已經有宣讀過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/504.wav", + "text": "還有一個修正再修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/505.wav", + "text": "就一併保留送院會協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/506.wav", + "text": "\n謝謝經濟部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/507.wav", + "text": "\n接續進行主題三" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/508.wav", + "text": "交通部組織法修正草案等相關法案共9案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/509.wav", + "text": "審查會於4月13日審查完竣審查結果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/510.wav", + "text": "保留條文有交通部組織法修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/511.wav", + "text": "第5條交通部觀光署組織法草案第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/512.wav", + "text": "交通部鐵道局組織法修正草案第2條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/513.wav", + "text": "之前保留的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/514.wav", + "text": "還是要一併保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/515.wav", + "text": "是統統保留你剛剛沒有唸到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/516.wav", + "text": "保留條文繼續保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/517.wav", + "text": "好謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/518.wav", + "text": "其餘均依審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/519.wav", + "text": "並決議院會討論前須交由黨團協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/520.wav", + "text": "另院會再" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/521.wav", + "text": "再將委員劉建國等16人擬具交通部中央氣象署組織法草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/522.wav", + "text": "等5案分別逕付二讀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/523.wav", + "text": "及自委員會抽出逕付二讀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/524.wav", + "text": "與相關提案併案協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/525.wav", + "text": "主席抱歉抱歉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/526.wav", + "text": "主席經濟部水利署組織法草案保留你有唸嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/527.wav", + "text": "剛剛我沒有聽到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/528.wav", + "text": "經濟部水利署組織法草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/529.wav", + "text": "原有保留的條文全部保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/530.wav", + "text": "再增加二個附帶決議及修正再修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/531.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/532.wav", + "text": "報告委員我是交通部政務次長胡湘麟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/533.wav", + "text": "因為剛剛我沒有寫上我的職稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/534.wav", + "text": "稱這邊跟委員會報告一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/535.wav", + "text": "剛剛所提的有3個案子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/536.wav", + "text": "今天要討論的我分別說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/537.wav", + "text": "第一個組織法修正草案第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/538.wav", + "text": "因為這涉及到鐵道局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/539.wav", + "text": "不單是在辦理高鐵車站" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/540.wav", + "text": "特定區的場站開發" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/541.wav", + "text": "還有其他車站" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/542.wav", + "text": "能夠照院版文字保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/543.wav", + "text": "交通部觀光署組織法第3條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/544.wav", + "text": "同時可��" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/545.wav", + "text": "主要是考慮到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/546.wav", + "text": "能夠可以考慮進用一些" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/547.wav", + "text": "對於這些個別業務比較" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/548.wav", + "text": "正常公務人員以外的系統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/549.wav", + "text": "\n第三個案子有關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/550.wav", + "text": "鐵道局組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/551.wav", + "text": "這部分也是牽扯到職能的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/552.wav", + "text": "除了剛剛談的場站開發之外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/553.wav", + "text": "另外有涉及" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/554.wav", + "text": "在執行相關工程建設的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/555.wav", + "text": "因為這部分在執行上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/556.wav", + "text": "過去幾年的檢討" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/557.wav", + "text": "如果把鐵道產業的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/558.wav", + "text": "有所提升" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/559.wav", + "text": "所以我們建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/560.wav", + "text": "這些都按照院版文字保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/561.wav", + "text": "以上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/562.wav", + "text": "陳委員有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/563.wav", + "text": "就保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/564.wav", + "text": "就因為溝通得還不是很完備" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/565.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/566.wav", + "text": "我們就照原有保留條文繼續保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/567.wav", + "text": "送院會協商好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/568.wav", + "text": "好謝謝次長謝謝交通部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/569.wav", + "text": "核能安全委員會組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/570.wav", + "text": "草案等相關法案共2案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/571.wav", + "text": "審查會於4月24日審查完竣審查結果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/572.wav", + "text": "保留條文有" + }, + { 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"../sentence_wavs/14996/585.wav", + "text": "經審視希望能夠依照行政院的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/586.wav", + "text": "保留送院會協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/587.wav", + "text": "其實未來的整合或者是協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/588.wav", + "text": "甚至跟地方政府的協調都會出問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/589.wav", + "text": "舉個例子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/590.wav", + "text": "一個三級機構怎麼去做好整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/591.wav", + "text": "還有跟地方政府的協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/592.wav", + "text": "所以還是希望行政院還有人總" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/593.wav", + "text": "能夠好好的思考" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/594.wav", + "text": "萬一發生核安問題一個三級單位怎麼去做協調跟整合" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/595.wav", + "text": "這不是一個很好的組改結果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/596.wav", + "text": "就繼續保留送院會協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/597.wav", + "text": "因仍有黨團代表未出席討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/598.wav", + "text": "無法達成共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/599.wav", + "text": "本日協商過程公開發言內容均已錄音錄影並列入紀錄" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/600.wav", + "text": "討論過程中有共識之部分將做後續協商依據" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/601.wav", + "text": "因仍有條文內容留待繼續溝通" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/602.wav", + "text": "依例不做結論簽名後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/603.wav", + "text": "續依立法院職權行使法第十二章相關規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/604.wav", + "text": "另定期繼續協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14996/605.wav", + "text": "\n今天到此謝謝大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14990/0.wav", + "text": "現在開始進行協商本日協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14990/1.wav", + "text": "本席莊瑞雄委員等16人提案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14990/2.wav", + "text": ")其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14990/3.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/0.wav", + "text": "謝謝主席" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/1.wav", + "text": "是不是還是維持本來行政院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/2.wav", + "text": "陳椒華委員的修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/3.wav", + "text": "針對這個法規" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/4.wav", + "text": "合本法或者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/5.wav", + "text": "者是如果行政" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/6.wav", + "text": "西到底有沒有符合本法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/7.wav", + "text": "今天也沒有任何的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/8.wav", + "text": "行政院的提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14989/9.wav", + "text": "請" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/0.wav", + "text": "現在開始進行協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/1.wav", + "text": "本日協商的議案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/2.wav", + "text": "是海洋污染防治法修正草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/3.wav", + "text": "併案審查行政院及各黨團委員" 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"../sentence_wavs/14988/17.wav", + "text": "有提出修正動議(參閱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/18.wav", + "text": "第2項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/19.wav", + "text": "或本法授權訂定之法規命令" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/20.wav", + "text": "提起公民訴訟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/21.wav", + "text": "\n這部分是公民團體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/22.wav", + "text": "也呼籲了很多年" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/23.wav", + "text": "因為很多環保法規" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/24.wav", + "text": "包括環評法水污法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/25.wav", + "text": "在此也希望海委會能夠接納" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/26.wav", + "text": "以上說明謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/27.wav", + "text": "其實在我們內政委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/28.wav", + "text": "大家都很盡心盡力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/29.wav", + "text": "大家花了很多心思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/30.wav", + "text": "坐下來都不斷地針對不同的意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/31.wav", + "text": "針對陳椒華委員剛剛的提問" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/32.wav", + "text": "來做一個回應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/33.wav", + "text": "我們在第66條第一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/34.wav", + "text": "當行為人違反的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/35.wav", + "text": "有以下相關的公民訴訟程序" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/36.wav", + "text": "在其他的環保法規都有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/37.wav", + "text": "所以我們在這個地方也比照辦理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/38.wav", + "text": "新提到關於行政機關疏於執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/39.wav", + "text": "但這段的關鍵點是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/40.wav", + "text": "沒有特別提到所謂的污染行為人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/41.wav", + "text": "沒有污染行為人時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/42.wav", + "text": "如果有發生類似海污的狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/43.wav", + "text": "其實主管機關都會很積極" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/44.wav", + "text": "去進行相關的清除和辦理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/45.wav", + "text": "基本上是沒有疑慮的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/46.wav", + "text": "我們查過其他的環保法規" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/47.wav", + "text": "其實包括環評和水污" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/48.wav", + "text": "並沒有看到類似的條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/49.wav", + "text": "所以我們建議是不是還是維持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/50.wav", + "text": "本來行政院草案的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/51.wav", + "text": "請黃世杰委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/52.wav", + "text": "謝謝陳椒華委員的修正動議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/53.wav", + "text": "還有各種環保法規的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/54.wav", + "text": "有一些公民團體確實非常" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/55.wav", + "text": "用力在推這一類的公民訴訟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/56.wav", + "text": "但是我必須要講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/57.wav", + "text": "因為我有跟他們討論過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/58.wav", + "text": "這在我國的現行法律" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/59.wav", + "text": "會出現一個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/60.wav", + "text": "因為這部分其實是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/61.wav", + "text": "想要引進美國的公民訴訟體例" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/62.wav", + "text": "例這邊的問題就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/63.wav", + "text": "所謂的疏於執行本法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/64.wav", + "text": "或本法授權訂定之法規命令" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/65.wav", + "text": "者到底是什麼意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/66.wav", + "text": "因為他們之前提來的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/67.wav", + "text": "其實是說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/68.wav", + "text": "如果法律要求你固定一個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14988/69.wav", + "text": "他們想要針對這個法規命令" + 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"../sentence_wavs/14982/342.wav", + "text": "而且是用科學" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/343.wav", + "text": "但是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/344.wav", + "text": "院長當召集人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/345.wav", + "text": "無庸置疑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/346.wav", + "text": "針對這���特種委員會還是一個委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/347.wav", + "text": "如果是依照立法院組織法第10條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/348.wav", + "text": "成立的特種委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/349.wav", + "text": "要有組織規程" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/350.wav", + "text": "很多都要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/351.wav", + "text": "一般委員會就是小組" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/352.wav", + "text": "們自己取的嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/353.wav", + "text": "我剛才的發言其實就是這個意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/354.wav", + "text": "就是說如果是特種的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/355.wav", + "text": "比小組位子高一點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/356.wav", + "text": "但不是regular組織法裡面的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/357.wav", + "text": "假如這樣的話就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/358.wav", + "text": "那第二個就是說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/359.wav", + "text": "不管是特種委員會或任何委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/360.wav", + "text": "立法院任何法案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/361.wav", + "text": "本來就是屆期不連續" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/362.wav", + "text": "我們這些人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/363.wav", + "text": "這又是一個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/364.wav", + "text": "我也可以選" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/365.wav", + "text": "至少往前在規劃" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/366.wav", + "text": "在推動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/367.wav", + "text": "只有這個意義而已" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/368.wav", + "text": "內容是什麼東西" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/369.wav", + "text": "有改嗎有改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/370.wav", + "text": "那就進行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/371.wav", + "text": "以及行政院人事行政總處" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/372.wav", + "text": "現在我們要進行協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/373.wav", + "text": "在進行協商前有關本次協商的社會福利基本法草案等案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/374.wav", + "text": "社會福利及衛生環境委員會召委吳玉琴委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/375.wav", + "text": "於4月26日召集黨團協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/376.wav", + "text": "僅保留行政院提案第4條及第十九條條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/377.wav", + "text": "其餘條文皆獲協商共識" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/378.wav", + "text": "因此為爭取立法時效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/379.wav", + "text": "本席徵詢各位協商代表之同意" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/380.wav", + "text": "本次協商擬從保留之行政院提案第4條及第十九條條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/381.wav", + "text": "先進行討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/382.wav", + "text": "如各位協商代表對已在委員會完成之協商條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/383.wav", + "text": "容有疑義" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/384.wav", + "text": "後面我們討論的時候再進行處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/385.wav", + "text": "請問各位委員這樣可不可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/386.wav", + "text": "那我們現在就開始協商" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/387.wav", + "text": "社會福利基本法草案保留的第4條條文" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/388.wav", + "text": "針對第4條看大家的意見怎麼樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/389.wav", + "text": "我先來說明第4條的部分嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/390.wav", + "text": "第4條就是看大家有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/391.wav", + "text": "有意見要請教時再請你" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/392.wav", + "text": "對第4條如果沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/393.wav", + "text": "我們是不是依照衛福部建議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/394.wav", + "text": "就照行政院院版通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/395.wav", + "text": "關於時代力量黨團版本之前在委員會討論的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/396.wav", + "text": "其實有滿多委員也一直覺得應該要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/397.wav", + "text": "一起來重視原因就在於" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/398.wav", + "text": "之所以稱為社會福利基本法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/399.wav", + "text": "基本法是一個比較上位涵蓋較廣的概念在此情況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/400.wav", + "text": "有一些我覺得具指標性及意涵的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/401.wav", + "text": "時代力量黨團版本第4條裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/402.wav", + "text": "跟院版的差異主要是是來自於消除一切形式歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/403.wav", + "text": "原本都希望能夠具備的概念性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/404.wav", + "text": "因為後面所列舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/405.wav", + "text": "的包括性別性傾向性別認同等部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/406.wav", + "text": "可能會有掛一漏萬的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/407.wav", + "text": "的狀況所以我們會希望在開頭的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/408.wav", + "text": "就已經把消除一些歧視的部分放進去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/409.wav", + "text": "或者是一些協助之申請的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/410.wav", + "text": "常常會遇到的是整體上包括民間主流的看法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/411.wav", + "text": "或者有時候甚至是承辦人員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/412.wav", + "text": "會有一個想像覺得好像必須要是看起來很辛苦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/413.wav", + "text": "才會認為他符合這種辛苦的感覺" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/414.wav", + "text": "或是很難生存的感覺" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/415.wav", + "text": "然後才願意給予協助" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/416.wav", + "text": "我們希望當我們在談論這個基本法的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/417.wav", + "text": "放進去避免未來我們在操作相關補助或協助的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/418.wav", + "text": "從外觀外貌上看不到一個人的匱乏就覺得他不需要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/419.wav", + "text": "因此時代力量黨團還是滿希望能夠堅持這個部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/420.wav", + "text": "但我覺得這個上位的概念還是必須要放進去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/421.wav", + "text": "不然就由衛福部說明針對王委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/422.wav", + "text": "有必要加容貌體態嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/423.wav", + "text": "沒有我剛剛提到的是過去其實大家都會有一個想像" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/424.wav", + "text": "主流上還是會有歧視的情況就是覺得" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/425.wav", + "text": "他貧窮或是辛苦就要有一個貧窮的樣子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/426.wav", + "text": "導致他們在申請相關補助上的確遇到一些困難" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/427.wav", + "text": "我覺得文字措辭可以看怎麼樣形容是大家覺得比較合理可以接受的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/428.wav", + "text": "謝謝有關委員的指教" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/429.wav", + "text": "對於要不要把消除一切形式歧視放進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/430.wav", + "text": "我上次在委員會有跟委員說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/431.wav", + "text": "其實我們去查本國的法律" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/432.wav", + "text": "大概只有消除對婦女的一切形式歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/433.wav", + "text": "還有對種族的歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/434.wav", + "text": "那個法的本義就是在消除各式各樣的歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/435.wav", + "text": "是在確保所有的民眾所有的國民" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/436.wav", + "text": "如果要消除一切的歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/437.wav", + "text": "它不會是在這個法裡面去處理的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/438.wav", + "text": "是不是要有一個完整的不歧視的法或者是平等法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/439.wav", + "text": "我是覺得應該要回到這樣一個專門的法規去處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/440.wav", + "text": "是不是可以不要增加所謂的消除一切形式歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/441.wav", + "text": "\n第二個就是外觀或外貌這個部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/442.wav", + "text": "其實單純講外觀或外貌" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/443.wav", + "text": "因為對我們來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/444.wav", + "text": "我們可能想到的外觀外貌反而是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/445.wav", + "text": "身障者的外貌是否和大家不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/446.wav", + "text": "可是我要講的是所有福利的提供都不應該" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/447.wav", + "text": "看他的外貌還是看他的情形" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/448.wav", + "text": "或中低收入戶也都是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/449.wav", + "text": "沒有所謂的一定是什麼樣的形象才是低收或中低收" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/450.wav", + "text": "啦所以我覺得委員如果擔心我們在福利提供的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/451.wav", + "text": "是否會有一些刻板印象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/452.wav", + "text": "這部分是不是可以採附帶決議的方式" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/453.wav", + "text": "也能夠有這樣的觀念" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/454.wav", + "text": "而不是在法規裡面增加這樣一個類型" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/455.wav", + "text": "王委員用附帶決議可以嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/456.wav", + "text": "如果附帶決議都已經可以了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/457.wav", + "text": "其實在法規上加這一項也沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/458.wav", + "text": "我們希望大家都有一個一律平等的機會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/459.wav", + "text": "既然性別性傾向族群等等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/460.wav", + "text": "也是希望能夠達到一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/461.wav", + "text": "我們只是多加了一個可能在實務現場" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/462.wav", + "text": "我不太認為也不理解如果站在平等的情況之下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/463.wav", + "text": "為什麼我剛才提到的這些可以放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/464.wav", + "text": "然後所謂的外觀容貌又或者是外貌體態(這是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/465.wav", + "text": "衛福部使用的字眼)等等不能放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/466.wav", + "text": "差別在哪裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/467.wav", + "text": "因為這些的確都是不應該造成差異的原因之一" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/468.wav", + "text": "尤其是我們剛剛提到的在實務現場上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/469.wav", + "text": "相對來說可能比起性別性傾向" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/470.wav", + "text": "傾向族群更容易發生的就是外貌體態的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/471.wav", + "text": "召集人要不要講一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/472.wav", + "text": "謝謝院長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/473.wav", + "text": "一直很強調外貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/474.wav", + "text": "可是因為外貌體態這4個字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/475.wav", + "text": "寫出來我們大家的想像都不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/476.wav", + "text": "原來講的是好手好腳的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/477.wav", + "text": "我們的福利輸送沒辦法達到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/478.wav", + "text": "其實會更容易讓大家有不同的想像" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/479.wav", + "text": "所以才建議不要這樣寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/480.wav", + "text": "\n可是對於今天衛福部提出來的附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/481.wav", + "text": "我也覺得稍微有一點意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/482.wav", + "text": "我覺得如果要這樣寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/483.wav", + "text": "其實最重要的是在社會福利的相關事項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/484.wav", + "text": "相關工作人員在提供福利的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/485.wav", + "text": "是依照相關法規而且本於專業的評估" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/486.wav", + "text": "應該是因為專業的評估而去提供適當的服務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/487.wav", + "text": "所以我反而覺得國民無分性別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/488.wav", + "text": "這些其實可以拿掉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/489.wav", + "text": "民接受社會福利的機會應該一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/490.wav", + "text": "各級政府社會福利事業單位及相關專業人員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/491.wav", + "text": "在提供服務的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/492.wav", + "text": "應依相關法規" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/493.wav", + "text": "提供適切服務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/494.wav", + "text": "條文裡面的文字再敘述一次" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/495.wav", + "text": "社會福利的提供應該是以專業的評估" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/496.wav", + "text": "提供適切服務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/497.wav", + "text": "這應該是最高原則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/498.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/499.wav", + "text": "我想在第1項的部分就是國家應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/500.wav", + "text": "肯認多元文化" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/501.wav", + "text": "然後最後一句是接受社會福利之機會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/502.wav", + "text": "一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/503.wav", + "text": "我們接受平等的這樣一個內容" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/504.wav", + "text": "或者是我們加進來的容貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/505.wav", + "text": "那我針對容貌體態來講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/506.wav", + "text": "大家非常重視外表" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/507.wav", + "text": "譬如高矮胖瘦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/508.wav", + "text": "不只是所謂好手好腳" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/509.wav", + "text": "尤其是外觀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/510.wav", + "text": "膚色" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/511.wav", + "text": "這些大概都是容貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/512.wav", + "text": "我覺得我們把這個入法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/513.wav", + "text": "如果這部分入法以後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/514.wav", + "text": "我們就會更容易去強調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/515.wav", + "text": "你不必太在意你的高矮胖瘦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/516.wav", + "text": "接受社會福利機會一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/517.wav", + "text": "符合現代我們所面臨到的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/518.wav", + "text": "而容貌體態的確是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/519.wav", + "text": "我們這一代" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/520.wav", + "text": "譬如有些人比較胖" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/521.wav", + "text": "他就容易被歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/522.wav", + "text": "這個目前的確是存在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/523.wav", + "text": "所以很多人特別強調要去改變" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/524.wav", + "text": "或者是壓抑他自己的容貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/525.wav", + "text": "然後去贏取別人的喜歡等等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/526.wav", + "text": "所以還是建議能夠把容貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/527.wav", + "text": "另外我也想再請教一下衛福部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/528.wav", + "text": "基本上我們當然理解" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/529.wav", + "text": "我們希望這些機會和福利的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/530.wav", + "text": "接受可能性是一律平等的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/531.wav", + "text": "但却不寫外貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/532.wav", + "text": "這個差異和這個選擇的標的是什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/533.wav", + "text": "其實我也覺得有點疑惑" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/534.wav", + "text": "那宗教這些其實都不要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/535.wav", + "text": "啊我們如何在列舉的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/536.wav", + "text": "只提某些部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/537.wav", + "text": "比如說像剛剛提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/538.wav", + "text": "老實講我覺得對於社經地位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/539.wav", + "text": "或者是政治理念" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/540.wav", + "text": "大家的想像也會不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/541.wav", + "text": "所以我想知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/542.wav", + "text": "衛福部當初" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/543.wav", + "text": "或是院版當初提這個法案的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/544.wav", + "text": "如何去取決" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/545.wav", + "text": "哪些列舉需要寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/546.wav", + "text": "哪些列舉不需要寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/547.wav", + "text": "請衛福部說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/548.wav", + "text": "很多的人權公約" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/549.wav", + "text": "像CRCCRPD等等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/550.wav", + "text": "它都有一條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/551.wav", + "text": "所謂的不歧視平等原則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/552.wav", + "text": "接受福利的機會一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/553.wav", + "text": "方面有時候可能" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/554.wav", + "text": "還要再多一點的服務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/555.wav", + "text": "年齡的不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/556.wav", + "text": "我們還要有不同的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/557.wav", + "text": "社會福利平等的機會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/558.wav", + "text": "我們要針對不同的對象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/559.wav", + "text": "不同的能力" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/560.wav", + "text": "它才能夠得到平等的機會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/561.wav", + "text": "比較是一個平等的原則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/562.wav", + "text": "是站在這樣一個立場來看" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/563.wav", + "text": "其實外貌外觀這個部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/564.wav", + "text": "確實我們看過其他的公約" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/565.wav", + "text": "都還沒有這樣一個型態進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/566.wav", + "text": "聽起來大家對這個詞的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/567.wav", + "text": "見解又非常不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/568.wav", + "text": "回到剛剛吳委員講的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/569.wav", + "text": "其實我們就應該回歸到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/570.wav", + "text": "這個應該才是最實際" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/571.wav", + "text": "兩公約" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/572.wav", + "text": "國際公約第2條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/573.wav", + "text": "就有把膚色納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/574.wav", + "text": "我們這邊是用種族" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/575.wav", + "text": "但是這裡也有種族" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/576.wav", + "text": "啊第2條第1款就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/577.wav", + "text": "代表種族和膚色是兩回事" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/578.wav", + "text": "所以如果能把膚色容貌體態納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/579.wav", + "text": "的話就會更周全" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/580.wav", + "text": "把容貌體態納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/581.wav", + "text": "好像就會讓容貌體態的歧視" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/582.wav", + "text": "一直存在否則" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/583.wav", + "text": "否則社會上並沒有這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/584.wav", + "text": "─接受社會福利的機會一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/585.wav", + "text": "剛才次長也講過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/586.wav", + "text": "不同的服務" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/587.wav", + "text": "機構本來就cover了很多" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/588.wav", + "text": "為什麼在這裡一定要加入容貌體態" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/589.wav", + "text": "是從哪裡來的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/590.wav", + "text": "我剛剛有解釋" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/591.wav", + "text": "哪個地方有容貌體態這樣的文字如果" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/592.wav", + "text": "國家應認同多元文化但" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/593.wav", + "text": "另一個觀念的問題" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/14982/607.wav", + "text": "是對如果照你剛剛提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/608.wav", + "text": "如果認為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/609.wav", + "text": "不是我們在立法時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/610.wav", + "text": "可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/611.wav", + "text": "我也認同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/612.wav", + "text": "所以我們是不是可以回來討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/613.wav", + "text": "哪些部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/614.wav", + "text": "差異的補助" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/615.wav", + "text": "的性別或社經地位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/616.wav", + "text": "所以我們要不要回來討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/617.wav", + "text": "哪些部分要同時一起刪除" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/618.wav", + "text": "我必須老實講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/619.wav", + "text": "我實在是看不出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/620.wav", + "text": "哪些東西要放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/621.wav", + "text": "不好意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/622.wav", + "text": "我可以先發言嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/623.wav", + "text": "剛剛次長有解釋如果要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/624.wav", + "text": "一樣一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/625.wav", + "text": "加或一樣一樣刪減的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/626.wav", + "text": "我想" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/627.wav", + "text": "這樣可能很難處理吧" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/628.wav", + "text": "我沒有堅持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/629.wav", + "text": "而不要放那個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/630.wav", + "text": "常常是政院版" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/631.wav", + "text": "沒有辦法接受別人的意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/632.wav", + "text": "我想這個部分還是要回到理論上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/633.wav", + "text": "我覺得我也能接受" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/634.wav", + "text": "比如社經地位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/635.wav", + "text": "又或者是性別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/636.wav", + "text": "提供的對象" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/637.wav", + "text": "不同待遇的差別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/638.wav", + "text": "其實可以列出這幾個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/639.wav", + "text": "差異性的補助" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/640.wav", + "text": "列這幾項就好了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/641.wav", + "text": "其他都不要列" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/642.wav", + "text": "不然我實在不知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/643.wav", + "text": "剛剛提到的政治理念" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/644.wav", + "text": "在上面地域的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/645.wav", + "text": "政治理念的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/646.wav", + "text": "放上去過的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/647.wav", + "text": "為什麼這邊要放" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/648.wav", + "text": "而實務上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/649.wav", + "text": "這跟本黨不是太有關係" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/650.wav", + "text": "還是講一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/651.wav", + "text": "也不太懂" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/652.wav", + "text": "我覺得衛福部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/653.wav", + "text": "直接這樣寫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/654.wav", + "text": "說實話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/655.wav", + "text": "所有國民" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/656.wav", + "text": "接受社會福利之機" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/657.wav", + "text": "會一律平等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/658.wav", + "text": "就可以結束了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/659.wav", + "text": "今天要把所有東西" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/660.wav", + "text": 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"audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/806.wav", + "text": "好那我們就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/807.wav", + "text": "好如果這樣名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/808.wav", + "text": "名稱的部分我們就照行政院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/809.wav", + "text": "提案通過好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/810.wav", + "text": "第1條大家有沒有意見如果沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/811.wav", + "text": "第1條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/812.wav", + "text": "就照行政院版本通過\n處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/813.wav", + "text": "\n處理第2條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/814.wav", + "text": "在第7款第8款有文字的調整" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/815.wav", + "text": "看起來這個文字調應該是沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/816.wav", + "text": "院長我再請教一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/817.wav", + "text": "高山海洋就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/818.wav", + "text": "所有的環境管理你們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/819.wav", + "text": "都會確實去執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/820.wav", + "text": "是不是這個意思" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/821.wav", + "text": "前面幾款是有關司的職權" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/822.wav", + "text": "部分然後第7款是有關所屬機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/823.wav", + "text": "第8款是有關所屬機構" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/824.wav", + "text": "我們在條文裡都寫得很清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/825.wav", + "text": "我可不可以再確認一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/826.wav", + "text": "原來法的主管機關就是我們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/827.wav", + "text": "我們還是都會照著執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/828.wav", + "text": "好我再確認一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/829.wav", + "text": "水源區的水質" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/830.wav", + "text": "水質調查是放在第7款嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/831.wav", + "text": "飲用水水質管理水體" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/832.wav", + "text": "是我們的水質保護司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/833.wav", + "text": "有一個所謂的環境管理及執法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/834.wav", + "text": "那個部分是未來的環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/835.wav", + "text": "就是有關實際執行時" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/836.wav", + "text": "會是在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/837.wav", + "text": "我剛剛特別提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/838.wav", + "text": "未來在水庫集水區" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/839.wav", + "text": "會做全面性調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/840.wav", + "text": "而不是只落在水庫的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/841.wav", + "text": "我們都在做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/842.wav", + "text": "未來的部長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/843.wav", + "text": "水質調查應該要全面性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/844.wav", + "text": "包括地下水" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/845.wav", + "text": "可以這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/846.wav", + "text": "要求嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/847.wav", + "text": "地下水我們都有做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/848.wav", + "text": "所以其實也是全面性的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/849.wav", + "text": "但是當然不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/850.wav", + "text": "以後會不會做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/851.wav", + "text": "我只是要確認一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/852.wav", + "text": "這個沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/853.wav", + "text": "因為法的主管機關是我們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/854.wav", + "text": "我們哪裡做得不夠" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/855.wav", + "text": "我們可以再加強" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/856.wav", + "text": "是不是可以承諾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/857.wav", + "text": "你們升格以後會做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/858.wav", + "text": "我們當然要盡力去做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/859.wav", + "text": "這個沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/860.wav", + "text": "\n接下來處理第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/861.wav", + "text": "第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/862.wav", + "text": "大家有什麼意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/863.wav", + "text": "第5條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/864.wav", + "text": "環境部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/865.wav", + "text": "成立之後的次級機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/866.wav", + "text": "也就是三級機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/867.wav", + "text": "因為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/868.wav", + "text": "中央行政機關組織基準法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/869.wav", + "text": "有規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/870.wav", + "text": "全部只有70個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/871.wav", + "text": "三級機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/872.wav", + "text": "所以這個會涉及到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/873.wav", + "text": "司法及法制委員會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/874.wav", + "text": "都在審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/875.wav", + "text": "立委的版本" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/876.wav", + "text": "環保署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/877.wav", + "text": "的三級機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/878.wav", + "text": "現在是幾個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/879.wav", + "text": "機構不算" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/880.wav", + "text": "環保署現有是3個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/881.wav", + "text": "機構不算" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/882.wav", + "text": "是有3個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/883.wav", + "text": "你現在增加1個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/884.wav", + "text": "就會涉及到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/885.wav", + "text": "其他的會被排擠" + }, 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"text": "範圍之外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/900.wav", + "text": "包括濕地的管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/901.wav", + "text": "國家公園區域範圍之外" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/902.wav", + "text": "整個全臺灣的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/903.wav", + "text": "四周都" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/904.wav", + "text": "所以這個都很有疑慮" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/905.wav", + "text": "我的重點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/906.wav", + "text": "是環保署現在的三級機關" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/907.wav", + "text": "從3個變成4個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/908.wav", + "text": "的三級機關的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/909.wav", + "text": "就會影響到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/910.wav", + "text": "我先講完" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/911.wav", + "text": "但是立法委員有不同的意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/912.wav", + "text": "內政部組織法是內政部組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/913.wav", + "text": "拿到這裡來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/914.wav", + "text": "我當然要談" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/915.wav", + "text": "一起" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/916.wav", + "text": "報告院長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/917.wav", + "text": "第7屆立法院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/918.wav", + "text": "本來原民會組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/919.wav", + "text": "要通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/920.wav", + "text": "裡面就是要成立原住民族文化園區管理局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/921.wav", + "text": "很可惜那次沒有通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/922.wav", + "text": "拖到第8" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/923.wav", + "text": "8屆的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/924.wav", + "text": "局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/925.wav", + "text": "民會本來就有文化園區管理局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/926.wav", + "text": "就不讓我們成立" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/927.wav", + "text": "整體地去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/928.wav", + "text": "考量" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/929.wav", + "text": "到底70個是哪70個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/930.wav", + "text": "不要到時候先通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/931.wav", + "text": "結果後來都沒得談" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/932.wav", + "text": "謝謝院長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/933.wav", + "text": "我要請教一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/934.wav", + "text": "我們現在把事業廢棄物放在資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/935.wav", + "text": "廢棄物的清除處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/936.wav", + "text": "放在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/937.wav", + "text": "我們知道事業廢棄物是很大的量" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/938.wav", + "text": "資源循環署跟環境管理署有什麼差別" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/939.wav", + "text": "據我所知" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/940.wav", + "text": "廢管處變資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/941.wav", + "text": "以後環保局的業務是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/942.wav", + "text": "沒有納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/943.wav", + "text": "是不是可以把營建廢棄物也納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/944.wav", + "text": "請說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/945.wav", + "text": "說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/946.wav", + "text": "謝謝其實" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/947.wav", + "text": "其實原來紅色的部分是因為委員關心好像廢棄物不見了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/948.wav", + "text": "所以我們才又把它寫上來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/949.wav", + "text": "其實我們現在在修法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/950.wav", + "text": "事業廢棄物及一般廢棄物會一起來管" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/951.wav", + "text": "所謂一起來管就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/952.wav", + "text": "跟傳統把它分成一般廢棄物及事業廢棄物不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/953.wav", + "text": "在這裡之所以寫成兩個單位是因為" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/954.wav", + "text": "所有的廢棄物未來資源循環" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/955.wav", + "text": "都是資源循環署要去負責" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/956.wav", + "text": "在服務民生收集垃圾清運清潔隊的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/957.wav", + "text": "因為這是屬於地方執行的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/958.wav", + "text": "所以執行的部分會放在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/959.wav", + "text": "\n就像剛剛講說有關環境管理和執法的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/960.wav", + "text": "執法的部分也會在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/961.wav", + "text": "所以現在是這樣子分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/962.wav", + "text": "其實是配合我們現在要提出來的廢清法修法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/963.wav", + "text": "所以不是傳統照事廢一般廢這樣來分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/964.wav", + "text": "請問一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/965.wav", + "text": "剛剛的營建廢棄物要放在哪裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/966.wav", + "text": "如果要講它的性質當然是屬於事業廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/967.wav", + "text": "但未來我們不會依照產源去分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/968.wav", + "text": "而是依照它可以再循環利用去做管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/969.wav", + "text": "我想上次在委員會也有要求我們做了一個報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/970.wav", + "text": "署長如果是這樣子的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/971.wav", + "text": "未來的一般和事業廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/972.wav", + "text": "就是像現在這樣的處理方式" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/973.wav", + "text": "並沒有負責事業廢棄物的清除處理事項" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/974.wav", + "text": "啊法這樣寫並不適當" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/975.wav", + "text": "沒有其實我們本來就是要用資源循環" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/976.wav", + "text": "跟資源回收去管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/977.wav", + "text": "但是因為在委員會審查的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/978.wav", + "text": "委員會覺得廢棄物沒有出現" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/979.wav", + "text": "好像廢棄物就不見了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/980.wav", + "text": "所以我們才用紅色的在這次修正才拿出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/981.wav", + "text": "其實在未來我剛剛講的就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/982.wav", + "text": "環境管理署因為牽涉到地方政府清潔隊的收運" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/983.wav", + "text": "清潔隊的管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/984.wav", + "text": "或是地方這些焚化爐的管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/985.wav", + "text": "所以會在環境管理署裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/986.wav", + "text": "但所有收來的都會從資源的角度統一管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/987.wav", + "text": "所以未來不會因為是家戶出來的啤酒瓶" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/988.wav", + "text": "就屬於家戶垃圾" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/989.wav", + "text": "從事業出來的啤酒瓶就是事業廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/990.wav", + "text": "那個是不合理的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/991.wav", + "text": "所以未來修法我們會把它調過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/992.wav", + "text": "這個已經配合修法的理念把它分開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/993.wav", + "text": "是可不可以把營建廢棄物放在說明那邊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/994.wav", + "text": "就是營建廢棄物是屬於事業廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/995.wav", + "text": "講清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/996.wav", + "text": "其實那個一定是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/997.wav", + "text": "我們現在的管理就是了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/998.wav", + "text": "我們現在所做的管理就是這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/999.wav", + "text": "寫在說明可以嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1000.wav", + "text": "說明把它加進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1001.wav", + "text": "或者是附帶決議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1002.wav", + "text": "就是寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1003.wav", + "text": "營建剩餘土石方和營建" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1004.wav", + "text": "廢棄物的管理的確有它的困難" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1005.wav", + "text": "我們把它寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1006.wav", + "text": "這樣好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1007.wav", + "text": "上一次的委員會要我們去做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1008.wav", + "text": "有關廢棄物處理的報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1009.wav", + "text": "其實我們已經大概就有提出這部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1010.wav", + "text": "未來有關於營建廢棄物的管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1011.wav", + "text": "確實是我們要改善的一個重點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1012.wav", + "text": "署長因為這個��細" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1013.wav", + "text": "可不可以在我們送院會前" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1014.wav", + "text": "把文字給我們確認一下" + }, 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"audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1028.wav", + "text": "送來的整個行政院組改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1029.wav", + "text": "所有法案裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1030.wav", + "text": "對70個局署都已經全部有規劃" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1031.wav", + "text": "境部先審或後審而產生問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1032.wav", + "text": "目前整個送來的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1033.wav", + "text": "是未來的國民年金局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1034.wav", + "text": "所以整個行政院對於70個局署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1035.wav", + "text": "都已經規劃好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1036.wav", + "text": "以上報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1037.wav", + "text": "這個就是行政院人事行政總處" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1038.wav", + "text": "國有土地的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1039.wav", + "text": "是國產署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1040.wav", + "text": "它是署" + }, + { + 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"../sentence_wavs/14982/1067.wav", + "text": "個對話基礎上來談這個事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1068.wav", + "text": "你今天是要談" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1069.wav", + "text": "原住民文化管理局" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1070.wav", + "text": "或原住民土地管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1071.wav", + "text": "因為我們現在已經訂了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1072.wav", + "text": "擔任行政院長的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1073.wav", + "text": "也是這樣一直走來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1074.wav", + "text": "我想大家都經歷過這個歷程" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1075.wav", + "text": "後來改來改去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1076.wav", + "text": "已經走到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1077.wav", + "text": "處理完畢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1078.wav", + "text": "中央政府組織基準法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1079.wav", + "text": "也訂下來了" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/14982/1132.wav", + "text": "含有3%的廢棄物就屬於營建廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1133.wav", + "text": "是不是這樣認定我已經跟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1134.wav", + "text": "委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1135.wav", + "text": "我們修法就是要解決這個問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1136.wav", + "text": "現在在這裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1137.wav", + "text": "我沒有辦法這樣講" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1138.wav", + "text": "所以我才會跟你報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1139.wav", + "text": "可以啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1140.wav", + "text": "我可以接受我們再談" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1141.wav", + "text": "因為這的確是很嚴重" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1142.wav", + "text": "長在行政院原版本裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1143.wav", + "text": "資源循環署有清除處理的文字" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1144.wav", + "text": "在環境管理署本來沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1145.wav", + "text": "現在在資源循環署裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1146.wav", + "text": "加了事業廢棄物的清除處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1147.wav", + "text": "然後在環境管理署裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1148.wav", + "text": "加了一般廢棄物的清除處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1149.wav", + "text": "你們要不要把它放在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1150.wav", + "text": "同一個署裡面去處理就好了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1151.wav", + "text": "跟委員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1152.wav", + "text": "的就是針對我們現在比較熟悉的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1153.wav", + "text": "清潔隊的那一部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1154.wav", + "text": "都會在環境管理署去執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1155.wav", + "text": "至於事業廢棄物的部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1156.wav", + "text": "部分在法的責任" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1157.wav", + "text": "事業廢棄物的清除處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1158.wav", + "text": "是事業的責任" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1159.wav", + "text": "還是要有一個管理系統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1160.wav", + "text": "管理系統" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1161.wav", + "text": "跟資源回收的觀點" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1162.wav", + "text": "清運的管理系統會是分開的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1163.wav", + "text": "院長現在據我所知" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1164.wav", + "text": "這個事業廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1165.wav", + "text": "都是督察總隊在協調" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1166.wav", + "text": "不是嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1167.wav", + "text": "只有執法的部分在督察總隊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1168.wav", + "text": "也就是督察總隊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1169.wav", + "text": "未來會改為環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1170.wav", + "text": "所以執法也在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1171.wav", + "text": "還是環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1172.wav", + "text": "沒有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1173.wav", + "text": "它的制度法規管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1174.wav", + "text": "都會在資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1175.wav", + "text": "但是到了現地" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1176.wav", + "text": "例如它有被棄置" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1177.wav", + "text": "及稽查的處分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1178.wav", + "text": "會在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1179.wav", + "text": "而整個制度會在資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1180.wav", + "text": "設署的目的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1181.wav", + "text": "因為署是有決策的概念" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1182.wav", + "text": "局就是直接執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1183.wav", + "text": "我稍微請教一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1184.wav", + "text": "因為過去的修法歷程" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1185.wav", + "text": "我們並沒有參與" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1186.wav", + "text": "我只是請教署長一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1187.wav", + "text": "到有好幾位委員也在詢問" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1188.wav", + "text": "雖然有分為一般的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1189.wav", + "text": "有事業的等等" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1190.wav", + "text": "但是現在又分在兩個" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1191.wav", + "text": "不同的署裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1192.wav", + "text": "立法中會不會有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1193.wav", + "text": "誰在決策" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1194.wav", + "text": "我覺得因為這都是設署的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1195.wav", + "text": "有沒有重疊的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1196.wav", + "text": "跟委員報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1197.wav", + "text": "規劃法的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1198.wav", + "text": "其實我們會把它分開" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1199.wav", + "text": "民間清運有不同的規定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1200.wav", + "text": "未來我們希望" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1201.wav", + "text": "在資源循環署管理的觀點下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1202.wav", + "text": "兩個應該走相同的規格" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1203.wav", + "text": "我們要提升" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1204.wav", + "text": "如此公私才會一致" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1205.wav", + "text": "未來我們會去修法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1206.wav", + "text": "環境衛生的這部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1207.wav", + "text": "我們希望重新去把法更新" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1208.wav", + "text": "第一線在做的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1209.wav", + "text": "所以未來各自主管的法規" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1210.wav", + "text": "也會不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1211.wav", + "text": "是不是我們就照協商條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1212.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1213.wav", + "text": "就照協商建議條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1214.wav", + "text": "氣候變遷署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1215.wav", + "text": "等於是第三案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1216.wav", + "text": "處理名稱如" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1217.wav", + "text": "沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1218.wav", + "text": "我們就照行政院的提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1219.wav", + "text": "第1條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1220.wav", + "text": "沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1221.wav", + "text": "行政院的提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1222.wav", + "text": "接下來處理第四案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1223.wav", + "text": "資源" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1224.wav", + "text": "循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1225.wav", + "text": "草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1226.wav", + "text": "就通過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1227.wav", + "text": "第1條也照行政院的版本通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1228.wav", + "text": "OK" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1229.wav", + "text": "也是照協商建議條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1230.wav", + "text": "陳委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1231.wav", + "text": "現在是資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1232.wav", + "text": "第2條的第2款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1233.wav", + "text": "一般廢棄物的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1234.wav", + "text": "政策" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1235.wav", + "text": "是不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1236.wav", + "text": "這個執行是執行什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1237.wav", + "text": "如果像" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1238.wav", + "text": "剛剛說的一般廢棄物是放在" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1239.wav", + "text": "管理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1240.wav", + "text": "有關它的減量跟資源循環" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1241.wav", + "text": "回收的部分會在這裡推動" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1242.wav", + "text": "回收基金" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1243.wav", + "text": "為什麼把事業廢���物放在那邊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1244.wav", + "text": "管理署跟資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1245.wav", + "text": "有關廢棄物的分工你們還是要寫清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1246.wav", + "text": "因為業務上真的有高度重疊性" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1247.wav", + "text": "不是嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1248.wav", + "text": "可是如果照你這樣講其實現在很多事業廢棄物" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1249.wav", + "text": "以後督察總隊就是管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1250.wav", + "text": "資源循環署大部分都是一堆" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1251.wav", + "text": "坐在辦公室裡面的人他們怎麼去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1252.wav", + "text": "這真的是有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1253.wav", + "text": "確實我們是資源循環署跟環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1254.wav", + "text": "環境管理署會偏比較地方執行的輔導" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1255.wav", + "text": "所以清潔隊的管理照顧那部分會在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1256.wav", + "text": "修法希望把綠色設計源頭減量" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1257.wav", + "text": "都修到資源循環的這個法裡面去" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1258.wav", + "text": "所以未來不是純粹像現在只有末端的處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1259.wav", + "text": "我們希望從源頭去做一些改變" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1260.wav", + "text": "不過我還是建議你把部分的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1261.wav", + "text": "事業廢棄物業務分到資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1262.wav", + "text": "但是環境管理署那邊還是要把事業廢棄物納進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1263.wav", + "text": "未來他們還是要協助事業廢棄物的處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1264.wav", + "text": "跟委員報告我剛剛講的就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1265.wav", + "text": "未來事業廢棄物只有執法的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1266.wav", + "text": "會在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1267.wav", + "text": "因為我們的稽查會在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1268.wav", + "text": "制度的設計法規都會在資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1269.wav", + "text": "所以資源循環署設計的所謂資源循環" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1270.wav", + "text": "也會在資源循環署整體規劃" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1271.wav", + "text": "不會同樣一個東西因為來源不同" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1272.wav", + "text": "結果處理的法規不一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1273.wav", + "text": "對啊你剛剛講執法的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1274.wav", + "text": "事業廢棄物還是要在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1275.wav", + "text": "所以環境管理署還是必須要去處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1276.wav", + "text": "事業廢棄物執法的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1277.wav", + "text": "我剛剛的意思就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1278.wav", + "text": "這樣子的話你在業務分工方面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1279.wav", + "text": "譬如說事業廢棄物執法的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1280.wav", + "text": "還是要寫進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1281.wav", + "text": "未來就包括違反空氣違反水污法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1282.wav", + "text": "都是在環境管理署執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1283.wav", + "text": "對" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1284.wav", + "text": "所以我們就寫環境執法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1285.wav", + "text": "就是相關環保法規的違法執行" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1286.wav", + "text": "都在環境管理署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1287.wav", + "text": "那這樣的話我們是不是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1288.wav", + "text": "也照協商建議條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1289.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1290.wav", + "text": "\n處理第五案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1291.wav", + "text": "吧這個已經過了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1292.wav", + "text": "就照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1293.wav", + "text": "\n接下來處理第1條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1294.wav", + "text": "第1條也是一樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1295.wav", + "text": "好就照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1296.wav", + "text": "這是第五案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1297.wav", + "text": "第六案也是名稱" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1298.wav", + "text": "6案之1" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1299.wav", + "text": "名稱也是照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1300.wav", + "text": "\n接下來處理第1條" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1301.wav", + "text": "第1條沒有意見的話" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1302.wav", + "text": "也是照行政院提案通過好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1303.wav", + "text": "第七案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1304.wav", + "text": "有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1305.wav", + "text": "國家環境研究院" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1306.wav", + "text": "地下水的調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1307.wav", + "text": "相關背景什麼可以放進來嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1308.wav", + "text": "因為我看你們還是只加強" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1309.wav", + "text": "環境污染的調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1310.wav", + "text": "要去建立背景值" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1311.wav", + "text": "並不是污染了才調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1312.wav", + "text": "要訂在哪一個項目" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1313.wav", + "text": "可不可以說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1314.wav", + "text": "請說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1315.wav", + "text": "其實原來有關監測的部分" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1316.wav", + "text": "當然原來有一部分是在我們的檢驗所" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1317.wav", + "text": "有一部分是在業務單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1318.wav", + "text": "好比說地下水" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1319.wav", + "text": "我們是比較傾向" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1320.wav", + "text": "所以如果是一般的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1321.wav", + "text": "環境品質監測" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1322.wav", + "text": "是不是要移過來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1323.wav", + "text": "我們會去考慮它的量能" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1324.wav", + "text": "環境研究檢測" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1325.wav", + "text": "算嗎就是非污染就要做檢測" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1326.wav", + "text": "所以未來這個單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1327.wav", + "text": "如果看它的第4款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1328.wav", + "text": "可是我剛剛的意思是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1329.wav", + "text": "就像我剛剛講的地下水" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1330.wav", + "text": "需要進一步" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1331.wav", + "text": "就會由研究院從" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1332.wav", + "text": "我再強調一遍" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1333.wav", + "text": "就像現在內政部在做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1334.wav", + "text": "全面性的環境調查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1335.wav", + "text": "我們現在都有在做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1336.wav", + "text": "而且是各部門都在做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1337.wav", + "text": "整個事情一定有人做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1338.wav", + "text": "這沒有問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1339.wav", + "text": "就通過好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1340.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1341.wav", + "text": "就照協商建議條文通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1342.wav", + "text": "也照協商建議條文通過好嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1343.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1344.wav", + "text": "照行政院提案通過好不好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1345.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1346.wav", + "text": "遍\n協商結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1347.wav", + "text": "一環境部組織法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1348.wav", + "text": "草案共11案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1349.wav", + "text": ")名稱及第1條均照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1350.wav", + "text": ")第2條及第5條均照協商內容通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1351.wav", + "text": "1(三)其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1352.wav", + "text": "二" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1353.wav", + "text": "環境部氣候變遷署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1354.wav", + "text": "組織法草案共5案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1355.wav", + "text": "名稱及第1條均照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1356.wav", + "text": ")其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1357.wav", + "text": "三" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1358.wav", + "text": "環境部資源循環署" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1359.wav", + "text": "組織法草案共3案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1360.wav", + "text": ")名稱及第1條均照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1361.wav", + "text": ")第2條照協商內容通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1362.wav", + "text": "2(三)其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1363.wav", + "text": "四" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1364.wav", + "text": "環境部化學物質管理署組織法草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1365.wav", + "text": ")名稱及第1條均照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1366.wav", + "text": ")其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1367.wav", + "text": "五" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1368.wav", + "text": "環境部環境管理署組織法草案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1369.wav", + "text": ")名稱及第1條均照行政院提案通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1370.wav", + "text": "其餘均照審查會審查結果通過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1371.wav", + "text": "大家有沒有意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1372.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1373.wav", + "text": "大家有沒有其他意見" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1374.wav", + "text": "如果沒有我們今天會議就到此告一段落" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14982/1375.wav", + "text": "謝謝大家散會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/0.wav", + "text": "好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/1.wav", + "text": "我們現在就" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/2.wav", + "text": "開始今天的會議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/3.wav", + "text": "謝謝大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/4.wav", + "text": "今天的會議" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/5.wav", + "text": "最主要是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/6.wav", + "text": "繼續研商中華民國112年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算及綜計表" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/7.wav", + "text": "─營業及非營業部分案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/8.wav", + "text": "\n我先介紹一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/9.wav", + "text": "首先介紹的是財政部部長莊翠雲女士" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/10.wav", + "text": "接下來是金管會主任委員黃天牧先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/11.wav", + "text": "再來是行政院主計總處主計長朱澤民先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/12.wav", + "text": "中央銀行總裁楊金龍先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/13.wav", + "text": "經濟部部長王美花女士" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/14.wav", + "text": "農委會副主任委員陳添壽先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/15.wav", + "text": "勞動部部長許銘春女士" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/16.wav", + "text": "衛福部政務次長王必勝先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/17.wav", + "text": "交通部政務次長胡湘麟先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/18.wav", + "text": "再來是行政院公共工程委員會副處長胡培中先生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/19.wav", + "text": "\n我們就先讓黨團大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/20.wav", + "text": "綜合討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/21.wav", + "text": "程序上" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/22.wav", + "text": "因為今天是審查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/23.wav", + "text": "112年度營業" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/24.wav", + "text": "非營業基金的預算" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/25.wav", + "text": "金額有二三兆" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/26.wav", + "text": "呢假如用得好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/27.wav", + "text": "很多事業就會經營得非常好" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/28.wav", + "text": "尤其現在經濟不好的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/29.wav", + "text": "真的可以刺激經濟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/30.wav", + "text": "像今年可能連保2都有困難" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/31.wav", + "text": "所以這也是當時朝野協商的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/32.wav", + "text": "國民黨團傾全力支持" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/33.wav", + "text": "趕快讓它通過以刺激經濟" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/34.wav", + "text": "但是近期我們的王鴻薇委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/35.wav", + "text": "舉發有關合庫金控的事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/36.wav", + "text": "合庫金控的事情非常誇張" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/37.wav", + "text": "等一下王鴻薇委員會跟大家報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/38.wav", + "text": "雖然合庫已經民營化" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/39.wav", + "text": "但是跟我們公股公營事業" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/40.wav", + "text": "基金營業基金類似" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/41.wav", + "text": "假設這種東西不清不楚不查辦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/42.wav", + "text": "那審什麼預算" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/43.wav", + "text": "審假的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/44.wav", + "text": "嗎審假的啦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/45.wav", + "text": "所以我們才提出第13案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/46.wav", + "text": "並希望將其提到第1案來討論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/47.wav", + "text": "是希望先查清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/48.wav", + "text": "並跟大家做報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/49.wav", + "text": "才要做後續" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/50.wav", + "text": "我的要求很簡單" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/51.wav", + "text": "第一個請財政部" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/52.wav", + "text": "進行查辦相關的情況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/53.wav", + "text": "到底是誇張到什麼程度" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/54.wav", + "text": "第二個請金管會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/55.wav", + "text": "去做金檢專案檢查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/56.wav", + "text": "該怎麼處理就怎麼處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/57.wav", + "text": "我們也尊重" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/58.wav", + "text": "所以我先做以上的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/59.wav", + "text": "現在請王鴻薇委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/60.wav", + "text": "謝謝院長我們的總召" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/61.wav", + "text": "還有各位與會者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/62.wav", + "text": "我跟大家說明一下" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/63.wav", + "text": "事實上從上個禮拜開始" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/64.wav", + "text": "合庫的基層同仁" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/65.wav", + "text": "跟我反映" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/66.wav", + "text": "就是合庫金控底下的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/67.wav", + "text": ")一些胡作非為的狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/68.wav", + "text": "我在星期一的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/69.wav", + "text": "有召開記者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/70.wav", + "text": "合庫AMC的董事長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/71.wav", + "text": "蔡見興" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/72.wav", + "text": "合庫AMC之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/73.wav", + "text": "包含他的兒子去當" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/74.wav", + "text": "合庫創投公司的經理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/75.wav", + "text": "然後更離譜的是把他的侄子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/76.wav", + "text": "也引進到合庫AMC來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/77.wav", + "text": "還有他過去的家族公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/78.wav", + "text": "他最重要的事業夥伴的女兒" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/79.wav", + "text": "也把他納入合庫AMC" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/80.wav", + "text": "了高雄客運" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/81.wav", + "text": "負責人即副董事長" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/82.wav", + "text": "就是由他把他牽引進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/83.wav", + "text": "也就是他事業夥伴女兒的堂哥" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/84.wav", + "text": "所以形成了一個堂妹" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/85.wav", + "text": "像這樣的狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/86.wav", + "text": "在全世界來說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/87.wav", + "text": "是嚴重違反公司治理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/88.wav", + "text": "在國外的話應該都會被重重的罰款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/89.wav", + "text": "召開記��會提出" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/90.wav", + "text": "有這麼離譜的狀況" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/91.wav", + "text": "結果蔡見興在第一時間說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/92.wav", + "text": "我搞錯了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/93.wav", + "text": "他為人很正直" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/94.wav", + "text": "是因為他的兒子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/95.wav", + "text": "他的侄子都非常優秀" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/96.wav", + "text": "我們也不了解是否優秀的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/97.wav", + "text": "就可以直接引進" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/98.wav", + "text": "他們相關的關係企業" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/99.wav", + "text": "或直接到他的公司來任職" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/100.wav", + "text": "然後合庫竟然還說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/101.wav", + "text": "他非常有績效" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/102.wav", + "text": "結果這個事件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/103.wav", + "text": "事實上真的嚴重違反社會觀感" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/104.wav", + "text": "財政部大家看到這個事件" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/105.wav", + "text": "結果蔡見興董事長在昨天請辭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/106.wav", + "text": "可是我跟大家報告" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/107.wav", + "text": "因為這件事情是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/108.wav", + "text": "今天財政部跟金管會都在這裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/109.wav", + "text": "我必須要提出來的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/110.wav", + "text": "為什麼在這一次的爆料裡面" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/111.wav", + "text": "我告訴大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/112.wav", + "text": "其實我都還想保護我的爆料人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/113.wav", + "text": "所以我說有些資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/114.wav", + "text": "有些表格我們要不要修一修啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/115.wav", + "text": "不要一看出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/116.wav", + "text": "都是他們提供給我們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/117.wav", + "text": "的但他們說沒有關係" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/118.wav", + "text": "因為他們已經受夠了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/119.wav", + "text": "因為其實他們長期都有跟合庫" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/120.wav", + "text": "有跟財政部檢舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/121.wav", + "text": "也有跟金管會檢舉" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/122.wav", + "text": "但是長期都沒有辦法去動搖蔡見興" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/123.wav", + "text": "我今天召開記者會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/124.wav", + "text": "不是只有他的侄子兒子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/125.wav", + "text": "我在記者會裡面也做了很多的保留" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/126.wav", + "text": "的小三當他的秘書" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/127.wav", + "text": "護理師" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/128.wav", + "text": "這個小三長期做他的秘書" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/129.wav", + "text": "也把她引進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/130.wav", + "text": "還有很多他的什麼朋友的兒子也引進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/131.wav", + "text": "我直接說是高雄非常有關係的人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/132.wav", + "text": "也直接把他推薦進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/133.wav", + "text": "這些人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/134.wav", + "text": "裡面包含他那個小三" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/135.wav", + "text": "每個禮拜都跟他出差" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/136.wav", + "text": "浮報加班費" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/137.wav", + "text": "浮報出差費" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/138.wav", + "text": "浮報交通費" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/139.wav", + "text": "長期以往歷經很長的時間" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/140.wav", + "text": "所以我的意思就是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/141.wav", + "text": "今天為什麼我們合庫這麼大的一個公股金控公司" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/142.wav", + "text": "它下面的子公司管理竟如此鬆散" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/143.wav", + "text": "而且可以被一個人把持這麼久" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/144.wav", + "text": "而基層的員工" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/145.wav", + "text": "甚至有些離職的員工都告訴我們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/146.wav", + "text": "他們之前統統都爆料過" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/147.wav", + "text": "包含雜誌" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/148.wav", + "text": "還拍到他跟小三同進同出的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/149.wav", + "text": "他還可以不動如山" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/150.wav", + "text": "啊這些他們都有提供給我們資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/151.wav", + "text": "可是我要講的是" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/152.wav", + "text": "如果今天財政部跟金管會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/153.wav", + "text": "不對這件事情徹查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/154.wav", + "text": "包含我還提到" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/155.wav", + "text": "我在這邊要要求金管會" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/156.wav", + "text": "你們怎麼可以對金控底下的這個AMC" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/157.wav", + "text": "的一個案子十幾二十億所在多有" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/158.wav", + "text": "就是都更的貸款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/159.wav", + "text": "他把它修改" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/160.wav", + "text": "改成只要提出申請就可以" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/161.wav", + "text": "改成什麼呢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/162.wav", + "text": "不需要提出申請" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/163.wav", + "text": "當地主管機關劃定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/164.wav", + "text": "是都更地區就可以了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/165.wav", + "text": "因為這樣衍生出什麼案件呢" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/166.wav", + "text": "這個案件就是還沒有提出" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/167.wav", + "text": "合庫AMC要求墊付" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/168.wav", + "text": "然後直接撥款10億" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/169.wav", + "text": "元直接撥款給他10億" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/170.wav", + "text": "元可以這樣嗎" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/171.wav", + "text": "還沒有提出都更的申請" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/172.wav", + "text": "就撥款10億" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/173.wav", + "text": "元等他提出申請後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/174.wav", + "text": "再撥款給他10億" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/175.wav", + "text": "元可以這樣子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/176.wav", + "text": "只為了量身訂做" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/177.wav", + "text": "了還好總召提醒我" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/178.wav", + "text": "財政部發布的新聞稿寫什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/179.wav", + "text": "呢說他是基於什麼" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/180.wav", + "text": "他規劃個鬼啊" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/181.wav", + "text": "照理講你們應該要查辦" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/182.wav", + "text": "說他是生涯規劃" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/183.wav", + "text": "呢如果你們的態度是如此" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/184.wav", + "text": "所有的附屬單位" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/185.wav", + "text": "呢這個事情當然要徹查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/186.wav", + "text": "不能隨著蔡見興個人請辭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/187.wav", + "text": "就一了百了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/188.wav", + "text": "沒有這種事情" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/189.wav", + "text": "包含他所引進的這些人士" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/190.wav", + "text": "這些人都是他引進來的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/191.wav", + "text": "把他的兒子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/192.wav", + "text": "小三朋友的兒子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/193.wav", + "text": "他就全部都錄用" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/194.wav", + "text": "錄用之後" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/195.wav", + "text": "這些人當然要處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/196.wav", + "text": "包含他有沒有浮報交通費" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/197.wav", + "text": "整個貸放合不合理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/198.wav", + "text": "有沒有關係人的貸款" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/199.wav", + "text": "這些都必須查清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/200.wav", + "text": "光是讓蔡見興走人" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/201.wav", + "text": "這叫做斷尾求生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/202.wav", + "text": "是沒有辦法" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/203.wav", + "text": "符合社會大眾的期待" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/204.wav", + "text": "我直接就說" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/205.wav", + "text": "如果是這樣" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/206.wav", + "text": "即便蔡見興已經請辭" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/207.wav", + "text": "更多資料" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/208.wav", + "text": "這些資料不是我很厲害" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/209.wav", + "text": "我變出來的" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/210.wav", + "text": "而是這些基層員工" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/211.wav", + "text": "他們作為吹哨者" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/212.wav", + "text": "有一個很好的回應" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/213.wav", + "text": "跟大家做這樣的說明" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/214.wav", + "text": "賴士葆委員" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/215.wav", + "text": "謝謝" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/216.wav", + "text": "我們黨團的訴求很簡單" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/217.wav", + "text": "也很清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/218.wav", + "text": "因為大家都知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/219.wav", + "text": "特別是柯總召也知道" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/220.wav", + "text": "在國民黨執政的時候" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/221.wav", + "text": "有好幾年的基金" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/222.wav", + "text": "點早一個禮拜晚一個禮拜" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/223.wav", + "text": "不是那麼重要" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/224.wav", + "text": "要先處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/225.wav", + "text": "所以我們把第13案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/226.wav", + "text": "列為這次討論的第1案" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/227.wav", + "text": "而且要很嚴肅的處理" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/228.wav", + "text": "財政部莊部長人在這裡" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/229.wav", + "text": "如果這個沒有處理好是你包庇" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/230.wav", + "text": "我們可以去告你因" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/231.wav", + "text": "很嚴重的問題" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/232.wav", + "text": "蔡見興可以一手遮天" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/233.wav", + "text": "統統進來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/234.wav", + "text": "現在他卻斷尾求生" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/235.wav", + "text": "還沒有查清楚" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/236.wav", + "text": "他就斷尾求生" + }, + { + "audio": 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"../sentence_wavs/14961/720.wav", + "text": "再一個月就休會了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/721.wav", + "text": "兩個禮拜一定可以搞定" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/722.wav", + "text": "而且我們的案子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/723.wav", + "text": "剩不到5個案子" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/724.wav", + "text": "這都可以一直溝通" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/725.wav", + "text": "就可以處理了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/726.wav", + "text": "你就讓他們" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/727.wav", + "text": "維護一點國會的尊嚴" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/728.wav", + "text": "這樣事情就會快" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/729.wav", + "text": "好講結論" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/730.wav", + "text": "趕快去查" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/731.wav", + "text": "查完再繼續" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/732.wav", + "text": "他是說兩個禮拜" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/733.wav", + 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"text": "他答應要提早了" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/775.wav", + "text": "你也應該" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/776.wav", + "text": "應該要脫鉤來處理嘛他" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/777.wav", + "text": "一定會弄出來嘛" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/778.wav", + "text": "就不能表決" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/779.wav", + "text": "報告出來" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/780.wav", + "text": "讓大家提早休息" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/781.wav", + "text": "謝謝大家" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/782.wav", + "text": "今天開會到此為止" + }, + { + "audio": "../sentence_wavs/14961/783.wav", + "text": "散會" + } +] \ No newline at end of file