| --- |
| layout: transcript |
| interviewee: magda none blau |
| rg_number: rg-50.030.0030 |
| pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0030_trs_en.pdf |
| ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504535 |
| gender: f |
| birth_date: 1916-08-19 |
| birth_year: 1916.0 |
| place_of_birth: michalovce |
| country: czechoslovakia |
| experience_group: survivor |
| ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
| ghetto: none |
| camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
| camp: none |
| non_ss_camp: none |
| region: none |
| needs_research: none |
| data_entry: gg |
| accession: 1990.408.1 |
| revisit: none |
| tags: transcripts |
| --- |
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| <body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1"> MAGDA BLAU June 11, 1990 TECHNICAL CONVERSATION </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="5">We're now about to start. </sentence><sentence id="6">Would you tell me your name, please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="10">A: My name is Magda Blau. </sentence><sentence id="11">I was born Hellinger. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="14">Q: Where and when were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="16">A: I was born on the 19th of August 1916 in <span class="populated place">Michalovce</span>, Slovens...<span class="country">Slovakia</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="18">Q: Will you tell me about your parents and your family? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="20">A: My parents. </sentence><sentence id="21">My husb...my father was a teacher of Jewish history. </sentence><sentence id="22">My mother was a very nice woman. </sentence><sentence id="23">He was...she was a real Jewish mother, who worked and cooked and baked and had a <span class="dlf">garden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="24">So we had all the fruit and vegetable. </sentence><sentence id="25">And she helped all the poor, where they needed. </sentence><sentence id="26">So I saw already at <span class="building">home</span> what it means to be helpful to others. </sentence><sentence id="27">That's how I was brought up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="36">Q: Tell me about your family. </sentence><sentence id="37">You had brothers at <span class="building">home</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="40">A: Yes, we had brothers. </sentence><sentence id="41">But I haven't a...didn't have so much contact with my brothers; because there, in a small <span class="populated place">town</span>, little children went to learn Jewish history early in the morning. </sentence><sentence id="42">Then we went to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="43">And then, as a only daughter between the four boys, it was somehow different. </sentence><sentence id="44">I had my...my group of children; but sometimes we played, boys and girls, together. </sentence><sentence id="45">But mostly I had my own crowd of...either at, at <span class="building">school</span> or after <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="52">Q: Tell me about your childhood and growing up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="54">A: My childhood was a very nice childhood, because my father was um--like I told you that-- Jewish history teacher. </sentence><sentence id="55">And every night, I couldn't get asleep. </sentence><sentence id="56">You know, like you tell stories for children? </sentence><sentence id="57">He told me always the stories about the history, because he was studying in <span class="populated place">Frankfurt-am-Main</span>; and he knew and visited all the places that the Jewish history was around. </sentence><sentence id="58">And so he told me the travels and all the stories what happened; and that was very interesting. </sentence><sentence id="59">And so, before I go to sleep, I crawled in his <span class="spatial object">bed</span> and he told me those stories; and then I fell to sleep. </sentence><sentence id="60">And they had to carry me out from <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="61">And um as a matter of fact...because this time wasn't a <span class="building">kindergarten</span> when I was a little girl. </sentence><sentence id="62">So I always went with my father to the <span class="building">school</span>; and I was listening to the stories. </sentence><sentence id="63">And the children, you know, they was spoiling me rotten. ( </sentence><sentence id="64">Laughter) And um when I grew tired, so my father asked one of the children to take me <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="65">Because I was just a child. </sentence><sentence id="66">I was a very bad eater. </sentence><sentence id="67">I was very skinny; but I already, as a young child, always worried about the poor. </sentence><sentence id="68">And I came <span class="building">home</span> to my mother, and I said, "You know, Mom, I saw...I been at my neighbor's pla...our neighbor's place. </sentence><sentence id="69">And they are so poor. </sentence><sentence id="70">They haven't got anything. </sentence><sentence id="71">And it's Shabbat coming, and they haven't got meat and fat and sugar and coffee and tea. </sentence><sentence id="72">So I am not going to eat, but please give them." </sentence><sentence id="73">My mother said to my father, "We have so much trouble for her to put a spoon of food in her mouth, (laughter) and she says she's not going to eat!" </sentence><sentence id="74">So I managed that this way, already as a young child, that we went to the families. </sentence><sentence id="75">I was talking with the lady of the <span class="building">house</span> while my mother put it in the <span class="spatial object">pots</span> the food; because they was very proud to accept it. </sentence><sentence id="76">And that was the start of my childhood, and that's how I grew up helping people and helping the neighbors. </sentence><sentence id="77">And I always said I will be a doctor, because this is also helping the chil...the people. </sentence><sentence id="78">And later in my life, um there came from <span class="country">Poland</span> some Hebrew teachers. </sentence><sentence id="79">And they came to the place where we girls was playing. </sentence><sentence id="80">And he introduced us a Hebrew songs and dances. </sentence><sentence id="81">And that's what happened, that they put us first in this way. </sentence><sentence id="82">That in...we just played around in the place where one of the children lived; but later he transferred us--like Jewish scouts--in a place which they called [Ma'adon (ph)], which means louder (ph)]. </sentence><sentence id="83">And there I started to get to know with the history and what they want to try to make: that they should be in a <span class="region">Jewish state</span>, we should have a <span class="building">home</span> our own. </sentence><sentence id="84">And so it started my youth. </sentence><sentence id="85">And I was very much involved; and...because if they...in a certain organization, they found out somebody's willing and able, naturally they use. </sentence><sentence id="86">And I didn't mind it. </sentence><sentence id="87">I was sent out to start a new organization of Jewish scouts. </sentence><sentence id="88">And as a young girl, I had the idea that's the only way how you can start an organization, gather them under a flag. </sentence><sentence id="89">So I was very capable. </sentence><sentence id="90">I must say, today I don't even know how I did it. </sentence><sentence id="91">But I approach the all the right sources. </sentence><sentence id="92">I approached the teacher who was a sewing teacher, and I asked her if she would sew the emblem of, the scout's emblem, on the flag. </sentence><sentence id="93">I approached a man who was selling material if he would donate that for us. </sentence><sentence id="94">Which he did. </sentence><sentence id="95">Then I had the idea that, you know, to have golden nails with their names, which they donate. </sentence><sentence id="96">And...and the man who did it, he was doing it for...like for charity; but the one who had the nail written in the pole, he had to pay for it. </sentence><sentence id="97">So...and also I arranged a very nice evening with children--dancing and songs and a <span class="building">theater</span>. </sentence><sentence id="98">And so a lot of money came together. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="145">Q: And this was all for the <span class="building">Zionist Organization</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="147">A: Yeah, all for the <span class="building">Keren Kayemeth</span> [and Keren] Hayesod." </sentence><sentence id="148">And you know what? </sentence><sentence id="149">I tell myself I been very smart, because the collection of the money--I started with the generals. </sentence><sentence id="150">There was three military generals. </sentence><sentence id="151">And I approached the one with the list if he was willing to support the nail of...the golden nail; and voluntarily how much he was willing to give. </sentence><sentence id="152">And every general was very generous. </sentence><sentence id="153">Then I approach the others. </sentence><sentence id="154">But on the top of the list was a huge amount, so nobody was... You know how it goes. </sentence><sentence id="155">And so things like that, I did already. </sentence><sentence id="156">They always send me to another place to organize a evening like for Keren Kayemeth. </sentence><sentence id="157">So I did all those things before I started; and I postponed my finishing my " Keren Kayemeth [L'Yisrael], known in English as the Jewish National Fund, and Keren Hayesod (English name unknown) were established by the Zionist Organization in 1901 for the purpose of purchasing land in <span class="country">Palestine</span> for Jewish <span class="populated place">settlement</span>. </sentence><sentence id="158">studying as a kindergarten teacher, because I thought it's very important. </sentence><sentence id="159">Somebody should do it. </sentence><sentence id="160">And then I finished there; because, in our <span class="populated place">town</span>, wasn't able...I wasn't able to study for kindergarten teacher because there wasn't <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="161">So I did it privately, by myself. </sentence><sentence id="162">I went practicing to another <span class="populated place">town</span>, where it was a <span class="building">kindergarten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="163">And then I did my...finished my study by myself, and I did the exams in <span class="populated place">Bratislava</span>. </sentence><sentence id="164">This was the special <span class="populated place">town</span> in <span class="country">Slovakia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="165">And so I became a kindergarten teacher. </sentence><sentence id="166">But even as a young girl, during the holiday... I really don't know how, how...where did I get all those ideas? </sentence><sentence id="167">I said to my--I had a girlfriend. </sentence><sentence id="168">I said, "Look at the children running around, and there is not a <span class="building">kindergarten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="169">At least during the holiday, let's open a <span class="building">kindergarten</span>." </sentence><sentence id="170">And I approached there, there was a...we called her "Gleich Mamma." </sentence><sentence id="171">That was her name; and she was in everything. </sentence><sentence id="172">And we said, "What would you say...the children is running around the <span class="dlf">streets</span>, and if we would open a <span class="building">kindergarten</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="173">She said, "I am totally behind you children. </sentence><sentence id="174">I arrange everything." </sentence><sentence id="175">And she did. </sentence><sentence id="176">Because when she went, two o'clock from <span class="building">home</span> she went... You know, her social life was...she went through the <span class="populated place">city</span>, everywhere she had somebody. </sentence><sentence id="177">She talked with somebody. </sentence><sentence id="178">If we ask her husband, "Where is Gleich Mamma?" </sentence><sentence id="179">And he said, "Wait a minute. </sentence><sentence id="180">Now it's six o'clock. </sentence><sentence id="181">Two o'clock, she was there. </sentence><sentence id="182">Three o'clock, she was there. </sentence><sentence id="183">Three o'clock...now, it's six o'clock. </sentence><sentence id="184">She will be in the <span class="building">shop</span> there and there." ( </sentence><sentence id="185">Laughter) He knew exactly her timetable. </sentence><sentence id="186">And she arranged everything. </sentence><sentence id="187">So during the school holiday, we gathered forty children. </sentence><sentence id="188">And there was a man who wanted to get married. </sentence><sentence id="189">And he had built a <span class="building">house</span>, but he married in two months later. </sentence><sentence id="190">So she arranged he should let the <span class="building">house</span> for us. </sentence><sentence id="191">And <span class="dlf">sand pits</span>, and somebody made us the <span class="spatial object">furniture</span>. </sentence><sentence id="192">And we two young children...I was, I has then my birthday in August, and the school holiday in our place is June and July, August. </sentence><sentence id="193">So I was doing it before I was even fifteen." </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="241">Q: As you got older, obviously things began to change. </sentence><sentence id="242">Um...what happened um...as indeed things changed, and the war drew closer? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="245">A: When the real war came closer, I still... had my <span class="building">kindergarten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="246">It's true that all the doctors and the lawyers, they were stripped from their um possibility to work. </sentence><sentence id="247">Because it's already started the war. </sentence><sentence id="248">And um...but I didn't have even to wear a...a yellow star; because my <span class="building">school</span> belonged, the <span class="building">Kinderheim</span> [NB: <span class="building">children's home</span>] belonged to the inspectorate of the other <span class="building">schools</span>. </sentence><sentence id="249">So I, I...well, they didn't...they wasn't so strict on me. </sentence><sentence id="250">So I didn't feel much in our <span class="populated place">town</span> of the persecution, so far as that they lost all their jobs--the lawyers and everyone. </sentence><sentence id="251">And they started to take away the <span class="building">businesses</span>, and they put <span class="building">Ariersteters</span> (ph)] in. </sentence><sentence id="252">That means somebody had their eye on that job, and he was member of that...was a Hlinka guard--similar like SS, or something--and so they took away the business from the Jewish men. </sentence><sentence id="253">And in ? " </sentence><sentence id="254">Gleich" means equal or equivalent. </sentence><sentence id="255">Perhaps she was given this name because she was like a mother to everyone? " </sentence><sentence id="256">Mamma Gleich" may also refer to Margit Gleich, who was active in the <span class="populated place">Michalovce community</span> and a patron of the Zionist youth movements (she is mentioned in the Michalovce memorial book, published in 1969). </sentence><sentence id="257">> Since she was born in 1916, this would have been 1931. </sentence><sentence id="258">came, without any um restitution or something for the...for the Jewish man, and he [NB: the Jew] had to go out and he [NB: the Aryan] came in. </sentence><sentence id="259">So that was bad for them. </sentence><sentence id="260">And um...and for me, it was... I don't know if we have time for it, but there was a shoemaker who lived in our <span class="region">vicinity</span>, what he had a <span class="building">shop</span> on the way where I went to the <span class="building">kindergarten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="261">And I made all my shoes there. </sentence><sentence id="262">He made me beautiful boots. </sentence><sentence id="263">And, really, top job. </sentence><sentence id="264">But what I didn't know, that he fell in love with me. </sentence><sentence id="265">A father with a few children who lived in our <span class="populated place">neighborhood</span>! </sentence><sentence id="266">And um every time I went to the <span class="building">kindergarten</span>, he came out from the <span class="building">shop</span> and he said, "How are you" and "Good morning." </sentence><sentence id="267">And I thought it's just neighborly. </sentence><sentence id="268">One day, he came to the <span class="building">kindergarten</span>; and he said, "I want to protect you. </sentence><sentence id="269">In this way: that I will make one child, whichever child that is, is your child. </sentence><sentence id="270">Because first now they are taking the young girls. </sentence><sentence id="271">And as you have a child, I can make that you are exempted from this um <span class="spatial object">transport</span>." </sentence><sentence id="272">And I said, "But why are you doing it? </sentence><sentence id="273">I haven't gotten a child." " </sentence><sentence id="274">Can't you understand?" </sentence><sentence id="275">I said, "No." " </sentence><sentence id="276">I am in love with you. </sentence><sentence id="277">I want to protect you." </sentence><sentence id="278">I said, "And later, when the children will have to go?" " </sentence><sentence id="279">Don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="280">I will protect you always." </sentence><sentence id="281">And I said, "You mean, I should be your mistress?" </sentence><sentence id="282">He said, "Do I have to make it clear for you?" </sentence><sentence id="283">So...because I, I couldn't believe my eyes. </sentence><sentence id="284">But that's what he wanted. </sentence><sentence id="285">Naturally, I didn't want it. </sentence><sentence id="286">I told my mother; I said, "Isn't that funny? </sentence><sentence id="287">He's our neighbor, and he's my bootmaker. </sentence><sentence id="288">And he gives me such proposition!" </sentence><sentence id="289">So L.. "What did you say?" " </sentence><sentence id="290">I said, "Thank you very much. </sentence><sentence id="291">You are really very nice. </sentence><sentence id="292">You mean it well. </sentence><sentence id="293">But," I said, "I couldn't. </sentence><sentence id="294">You have a wife and children. </sentence><sentence id="295">How could you ask for me that?" </sentence><sentence id="296">The same night, they came for me. </sentence><sentence id="297">The same night they came for me; because he was so angry. </sentence><sentence id="298">Because he was waiting that I will naturally say yes. </sentence><sentence id="299">But I didn't know...um, I wouldn't even... I can't believe even when I would know where I am going I would agree to it. </sentence><sentence id="300">But this time, they said to us...which they deceived us, and there was nobody to say something differently. </sentence><sentence id="301">They said we are going to work in the <span class="building">Bata factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="302">So I said to myself, "What's so wrong to go to <span class="building">factory</span>? </sentence><sentence id="303">So we will go to <span class="building">Bata factory</span>." </sentence><sentence id="304">That's what I thought. </sentence><sentence id="305">Nobody ever said that there is danger. </sentence><sentence id="306">And then it came that um they gather us, they gathered us like at night. </sentence><sentence id="307">But me, I was so sure that they will... will be excepted...exempted as a kindergarten teacher. </sentence><sentence id="308">So I wasn't worrying about myself. </sentence><sentence id="309">I worried about others; especially, there was fathers whose daughter was hiding somewhere and they took the fathers instead. </sentence><sentence id="310">So I worried about the old fathers; and um run around and gave them help. </sentence><sentence id="311">And I did get excepted um papers. </sentence><sentence id="312">But what happened, there is always somebody greedy. </sentence><sentence id="313">They knew I have the papers. </sentence><sentence id="314">And one woman, a teacher, she bought my papers. </sentence><sentence id="315">She paid twenty thousand crowns, Czech crowns," for the papers. </sentence><sentence id="316">And when my father... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="392">Q: To whom? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="394">A: In the <span class="building">inspectorate</span> was a...a man who was doing the papers. </sentence><sentence id="395">She paid him twenty thousand; so she got my papers. </sentence><sentence id="396">And my father found out and he went to the <span class="building">inspectorate</span>...because he was also in...like teacher, you know. </sentence><sentence id="397">So they say, "My dear man," he says, "the times are changing. </sentence><sentence id="398">If you bring me twenty thousand crowns, I take it away from her, even if she paid * Czech: koruna. </sentence><sentence id="399">Official currency of <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="400">it already. </sentence><sentence id="401">And I give it back to your daughter." </sentence><sentence id="402">But my father didn't have the twenty thousand crowns. </sentence><sentence id="403">He was crying like a baby, saying it to somebody who after the war told me... He was crying, "They tear the nicest flower out of my <span class="dlf">garden</span>, but I can't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="404">I haven't got the money." </sentence><sentence id="405">Anyway, when we came on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>...so from our <span class="populated place">hometown</span>, we went on normal <span class="spatial object">trains</span>. </sentence><sentence id="406">And we came there, and the girls was dressed like peasants woman. </sentence><sentence id="407">You know, because they lived in little <span class="populated place">villages</span>. </sentence><sentence id="408">And I had my beautiful <span class="spatial object">wardrobe</span>. </sentence><sentence id="409">So I opened my <span class="spatial object">suitcase</span> and I dressed them all up. </sentence><sentence id="410">And there was a policeman--what they called them gendarme, a gendarmerie, because they was Czech. </sentence><sentence id="411">They... they had the <span class="interior space">quarters</span> in the same <span class="dlf">street</span> that we lived on the corner. </sentence><sentence id="412">So they saw me passing by, and they was always very friendly. </sentence><sentence id="413">And he thought...said, "I never happened to see something, that somebody should give away all the clothes!" </sentence><sentence id="414">I had only what I had on me. </sentence><sentence id="415">The dress, the coat and a muff, and a bag. </sentence><sentence id="416">All the rest I gave out. </sentence><sentence id="417">I dressed up all the girls, because... He said, "Why are you doing that?" " </sentence><sentence id="418">Because," I said, "we are going to <span class="building">Bata factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="419">I want the girls to be representing nice." " </sentence><sentence id="420">How could you be so naive?" </sentence><sentence id="421">I was...nobody taught us any other way. </sentence><sentence id="422">And he wanted to help me; so he took me...he said, "I am taking you to say once more to say goodbye to your parents." </sentence><sentence id="423">And he took me there, and I said goodbye. </sentence><sentence id="424">And I said to him, "How about if I would now run away?" </sentence><sentence id="425">And he said, "Try." </sentence><sentence id="426">I didn't. </sentence><sentence id="427">I didn't, because I didn't know what, how...how will L.. If...if not today, they will take me tomorrow; so something, I thought... So I didn't run away. </sentence><sentence id="428">And also, when they took us on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, we arrived to a place, <span class="populated place">Poprad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="429">And there it was already, you know, different; because there was um all girls was gathered and it was such a chaos. </sentence><sentence id="430">And he said to me, "I am taking you on a <span class="spatial object">train</span> which goes on a different direction." </sentence><sentence id="431">And I had a <span class="building">kindergarten</span> help...in the <span class="building">kindergarten</span> a helper; and I said, "But I am taking the helper with me." </sentence><sentence id="432">Because um she was helping me; and her brother, who is the headmaster--yah, of the <span class="building">school</span>--he asked me, "Look after my sister." </sentence><sentence id="433">And I promised him. </sentence><sentence id="434">So he said, "I don't mind. </sentence><sentence id="435">Take her with you." </sentence><sentence id="436">And I said, "Look, let's stay here. </sentence><sentence id="437">Let's not go back, because this <span class="spatial object">train</span> goes the other direction." </sentence><sentence id="438">And matter of fact, I told him, "And how about if we are not going back with you, we will continue with the <span class="spatial object">train</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="439">And he said, "Listen. </sentence><sentence id="440">I'll leave it on you. </sentence><sentence id="441">But if I come back and you are here, I have to take you back." </sentence><sentence id="442">So I begged her. " </sentence><sentence id="443">Ilonka," I said, "let's go on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, and let's continue." </sentence><sentence id="444">He [NB: she] said, "No. </sentence><sentence id="445">I am afraid what will happen to me. </sentence><sentence id="446">Let's not go." </sentence><sentence id="447">And L..again, naive as I am, I promised. </sentence><sentence id="448">And my word is a word. </sentence><sentence id="449">So when he came, he said, "Are you here? </sentence><sentence id="450">So I have to take you back." </sentence><sentence id="451">And he took me back. </sentence><sentence id="452">But he said, "Write a few words. </sentence><sentence id="453">I'm going to give it to your parents. </sentence><sentence id="454">I will try one more thing," he says. " </sentence><sentence id="455">I have a uncle in the <span class="building">Ministeria</span>, in the <span class="building">ministry</span>. </sentence><sentence id="456">I will write to him to send papers to you that you are excep...exempted." </sentence><sentence id="457">And he did. </sentence><sentence id="458">Because it was that we are staying there two days; but to me...my bad luck, we went the same day. </sentence><sentence id="459">So, so much so I know, that he delivered the letter to my parents. </sentence><sentence id="460">And in the letter, he said that I will be a nurse wherever I are going. </sentence><sentence id="461">So "til my parents was alive, they thought I...wherever I go, 1am aa nurse. </sentence><sentence id="462">That's how we came. </sentence><sentence id="463">And now it started. </sentence><sentence id="464">They put us in cattle tru... You know, you call it? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="537">Q: <span class="spatial object">Cattle cars</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="539">A: Yah, and now it started the misery; because there wasn't possibility to breathe, we were in so together. </sentence><sentence id="540">And also the <span class="spatial object">toilet</span> question was also a question. </sentence><sentence id="541">I managed one thing; that because there was just a little <span class="dlf">window</span> on top, you know, I asked the girls to lift me up. </sentence><sentence id="542">Because I knew where we passing by there is a <span class="populated place">working camp</span> for Jewish sol...they been soldiers, but they had already a different uniform--not green, but blue. </sentence><sentence id="543">So in a...in Hebrew, I just said, "They are taking all...us in <span class="spatial object">cattle trains</span>. </sentence><sentence id="544">We don't know where." </sentence><sentence id="545">Because he survived, and he told me that he told everybody about it. </sentence><sentence id="546">But they couldn't help us. </sentence><sentence id="547">We arrived in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="548">And here came the SS with the dogs, with the scream..."Raus! </sentence><sentence id="549">Raus!Los! </sentence><sentence id="550">Los! [ </sentence><sentence id="551">Ger: "Out! </sentence><sentence id="552">Out! </sentence><sentence id="553">Go! </sentence><sentence id="554">Go!"]" </sentence><sentence id="555">So beating us, hitting us. </sentence><sentence id="556">So this was the first introduction in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="577">Q: Tell us...tell us about being on the <span class="spatial object">selection platform</span>. </sentence><sentence id="578">What happened to you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="581">A: In... On... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="583">Q: You arrived at the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="584">Tell us exactly what happened during the selection? </sentence><sentence id="585">What did you do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="589">A: Now in in the first, first thing they didn't select us. </sentence><sentence id="590">No. </sentence><sentence id="591">The first thing, it was that they put us to a...a <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="592">During the night, we...we didn't know what happened. </sentence><sentence id="593">Just screams. </sentence><sentence id="594">And we been there during the night. </sentence><sentence id="595">And as we traveled so long, we been very dehydrated. </sentence><sentence id="596">The German woman prisoners--who consisted mostly of prostitutes and murderers and thieves--they delivered their tea, but they said, "It's poisoned." </sentence><sentence id="597">They delivered the food, and they said, "It's poisoned." </sentence><sentence id="598">So here we been dehydrated and hungry, and we didn't know what to do. </sentence><sentence id="599">So I volunteered. </sentence><sentence id="600">I said, "Listen, girls, we have to do something. </sentence><sentence id="601">We can't last so. </sentence><sentence id="602">We are dried out." </sentence><sentence id="603">Because we didn't get <span class="env feature">water</span> for days. </sentence><sentence id="604">So I said, "I'm going to drink it. </sentence><sentence id="605">If I don't come back in half an hour, that mean it's poisoned. </sentence><sentence id="606">The same thing I will do with the food. </sentence><sentence id="607">Then you will know it's poisoned." </sentence><sentence id="608">But it was bad...I ate and vomited it, because it was so bad. </sentence><sentence id="609">I hold my nose up, because it was all rotten. </sentence><sentence id="610">But it was still a little bit warm. </sentence><sentence id="611">I said, "Girls, Iam here. </sentence><sentence id="612">We have to drink it. </sentence><sentence id="613">We have to eat something. </sentence><sentence id="614">Otherwise we lose our [thanks (ph)]."_ </sentence><sentence id="615">That's how it started. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="643">Q: Excuse me...you had arrived in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="645">A: In <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="646">In <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> there was red <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="647">And it was a little bit normal, because that was um <span class="spatial object">beds</span>--not <span class="spatial object">bunks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="648">And the next day, they took us; and we been standing in the freezing cold. </sentence><sentence id="649">And some girls collapsed. </sentence><sentence id="650">I was saying, when they asked us "Los! </sentence><sentence id="651">Los!Los!"--I said, "Girls, let's run. </sentence><sentence id="652">Let's run and let's be obedient. </sentence><sentence id="653">Maybe that will help us." </sentence><sentence id="654">So what happened, I was the first in the <span class="interior space">room</span>; but when the girls collapsed...so I asked somebody to help me to put them somewhere "til they recovered from collapsing from cold and from...from stress. </sentence><sentence id="655">So that's why my number is not 2000, but 2,318; because so many times I run with the girls to help. </sentence><sentence id="656">I was really physically very healthy, sport-minded. </sentence><sentence id="657">And ate the right foods--a lot of fruit from the <span class="env feature">trees</span> what we had in the <span class="interior space">garden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="658">I ate for months--I don't know what it is, it's something which you can't understand. </sentence><sentence id="659">I ate only the fruit for months. </sentence><sentence id="660">And my mother... I came back from <span class="building">kindergarten</span>, and I just said, "Hello." </sentence><sentence id="661">And I tun on the <span class="env feature">trees</span>. </sentence><sentence id="662">And she came out and she said, "My goodness me. </sentence><sentence id="663">If somebody will see a kindergarten teacher..." I pushed my shoes down and sometimes the skirt, and off I went to the <span class="env feature">tree</span>. </sentence><sentence id="664">And there I had my lunch, my breakfast, my dinner. </sentence><sentence id="665">And my mother said, "I'm cooking the beautiful soup." </sentence><sentence id="666">And I said, "No, that's what I feel I need." </sentence><sentence id="667">I didn't understand how important was that. </sentence><sentence id="668">It was like...I don't know why I did it. </sentence><sentence id="669">But that's what I did all the...all the time just eating fruit. </sentence><sentence id="670">Fruit in season. </sentence><sentence id="671">And we had all the fruit for all the season in our <span class="interior space">garden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="672">I remember once I climbed on the <span class="env feature">cherry tree</span>, on the high branches up. </sentence><sentence id="673">And, you know, it was the <span class="env feature">branches</span> went swaying here and there. </sentence><sentence id="674">And Mother...my mother says, "Please come down. </sentence><sentence id="675">The <span class="dlf">branches</span> will fell." </sentence><sentence id="676">I said, "Oh, no. </sentence><sentence id="677">They are strong <span class="dlf">branches</span>. </sentence><sentence id="678">And...and here are the cherries the sweetest, the healthiest." </sentence><sentence id="679">She said, "Please come down." </sentence><sentence id="680">So alright. </sentence><sentence id="681">I... had my lunch. </sentence><sentence id="682">Now I came down. " </sentence><sentence id="683">But have something to eat." </sentence><sentence id="684">I said, "No, this is my food." </sentence><sentence id="685">And, anyway... So the next what was they...like I told you before, they undressed all what we had um...they put us...like I am saying there in the article. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="729">Q: Tell us on tape. </sentence><sentence id="730">I want...tell us exactly how they treated you. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="733">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="734">They undressed everything what we had. </sentence><sentence id="735">Now they let us stand there naked. </sentence><sentence id="736">Then they shaved our head with blunt scissors, so our head was all bruised--at least mine. </sentence><sentence id="737">And then the man, laughing man, stood me on the <span class="spatial object">chair</span> and shaved everywhere what was hair. </sentence><sentence id="738">And then, they call it "disinfection." </sentence><sentence id="739">They put us in big <span class="spatial object">bins</span>; and it was murky <span class="env feature">water</span>. </sentence><sentence id="740">Ten at a time. </sentence><sentence id="741">And we had to go in, and with our heads in. </sentence><sentence id="742">And then naked, wet, we stood in that freezing cold wintry day "til we got the remnants of Russian prisoner of wars uniforms, which was cotton top and cotton pants. </sentence><sentence id="743">And mine didn't have a button on top and a button on the pants. </sentence><sentence id="744">So I had to hold on to...not to lose it. </sentence><sentence id="745">And then we got wooden clogs, which we never was use to it. </sentence><sentence id="746">And so ...and naked and barefooted... And then that's how it was. </sentence><sentence id="747">The start. </sentence><sentence id="748">We...we thought looking one each other, we didn't recognize. </sentence><sentence id="749">We thought they are crazy. </sentence><sentence id="750">But we didn't see that ourself--we looked like crazy, too. </sentence><sentence id="751">Anyway, we went to the <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="752">And in our <span class="interior space">room</span>, there was about six hundred girls; and some of the girls under shock. </sentence><sentence id="753">What happened, they went crazy. </sentence><sentence id="754">Or, what you call it? </sentence><sentence id="755">Under the shock. </sentence><sentence id="756">And very soon, in the first day, we found out--because there is always that certain communication and certain gossip going around--that those who are crazy, they get a phenol injection. </sentence><sentence id="757">You know what's a phenol? </sentence><sentence id="758">Straight away, a phenol injection. </sentence><sentence id="759">And there was four girls. </sentence><sentence id="760">And I... knew how to... had experience; because I work ...worked like a um assistant to a very famous doctor, and so I knew how to handle um oh crazy. </sentence><sentence id="761">But they weren't crazy. </sentence><sentence id="762">They was under the shock. </sentence><sentence id="763">So I slept in one <span class="spatial object">bed</span> with four of those, which was really meant for two. </sentence><sentence id="764">But I slept with them. </sentence><sentence id="765">And my influence on them was so good they recovered in a few days. </sentence><sentence id="766">Others who didn't do that, they was dead. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="801">Q: I'd like to stop the tape a moment. </sentence><sentence id="802">I'd like to take a break. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="805"> TECHNICAL CONVERSATION - PAUSE IN TAPE </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="807">Q: We'll pick up with more stories of <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="808">OK. </sentence><sentence id="809">We are in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, in the <span class="building">barracks</span> at <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="813">A: In a <span class="building">barrack</span> in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, and this... And there was, like I mentioned, about six hundred girls; and there was in charge a German um woman who was a politisch [NB: political prisoner]. </sentence><sentence id="814">And he was there...she was there as a punishment, because in <span class="populated place">P_aszew</span> she had helped prisoners. </sentence><sentence id="815">Her husband was a famous doctor, but even so it didn't help. </sentence><sentence id="816">They brought her to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> and they shaved her hair the same way like us. </sentence><sentence id="817">But she was not well. </sentence><sentence id="818">Her legs were swollen. </sentence><sentence id="819">I don't know from what...what sickness it makes it. </sentence><sentence id="820">And so she asked the girls who would help her. </sentence><sentence id="821">So I volunteered that I will. </sentence><sentence id="822">And the first... first day, because we needed to bring tea to the um for the people. </sentence><sentence id="823">So we went there. </sentence><sentence id="824">But the German prisoners, like I told you, they were prostitutes, thieves and murderers. </sentence><sentence id="825">And the rumors went that we are prostitutes too, and we are competition to them. </sentence><sentence id="826">So when I came to the girls there for the drinks, so she says, "We don't need any competition. </sentence><sentence id="827">And anyway, you wouldn't be able to carry the...the <span class="spatial object">kettles</span>." </sentence><sentence id="828">And I said, "In case we are able to carry the <span class="spatial object">kettles</span>, would you not make any difficulties for us?" </sentence><sentence id="829">And...but she said, they said, "OK, we wouldn't. </sentence><sentence id="830">But you won't!" </sentence><sentence id="831">So I said, "Could you..." And I pointed to one of the girls. "... </sentence><sentence id="832">be a partner to me, and we are carrying together?" </sentence><sentence id="833">And usually they carry it four girls--two and two--because it's heavy. </sentence><sentence id="834">And I said, "But I would like to carry it with you by yourself." </sentence><sentence id="835">So she said, "Alright." </sentence><sentence id="836">So... and I grabbed the <span class="spatial object">kettle</span>, because I told you I was strong. </sentence><sentence id="837">And later, when we went out of their view, so I said, "And now you run, because I'm going to run." </sentence><sentence id="838">And so I was running. </sentence><sentence id="839">And it was a huge distance from where that food was given to the place where we been. </sentence><sentence id="840">Because we was in <span class="building">Barrack 9</span>. </sentence><sentence id="841">That was...two more <span class="building">barracks</span> was there, 10 and 11. </sentence><sentence id="842">And 11, it was the <span class="interior space">bunker</span> where they killed politisch prisoners or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="843">So and then she... she amazed, she was amazed. </sentence><sentence id="844">She said, "I thought that you are all spoiled nobodies!" </sentence><sentence id="845">And I said, "No, we are not. </sentence><sentence id="846">We are decent human beings. </sentence><sentence id="847">And please, in the future, let us have that food. </sentence><sentence id="848">Because whichever wrong that food is, what we need something." </sentence><sentence id="849">So I got the respect from her. </sentence><sentence id="850">And she wanted to be...she was lesbian, which I didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="851">So she came and she wanted to make friends with me. </sentence><sentence id="852">But in our <span class="populated place">town</span>, in our <span class="country">country</span>, we didn't know about what it means. </sentence><sentence id="853">But she started to pet me. </sentence><sentence id="854">So I said, "Oh, you... Don't be angry, but I don't understand this thing." </sentence><sentence id="855">And I said, "I appreciate if you leave me alone." </sentence><sentence id="856">And she was decent enough. </sentence><sentence id="857">She said, "Would you like something?Would you like I bring you, I take you somewhere?" </sentence><sentence id="858">And she really did. </sentence><sentence id="859">And she said, "What would you like?" </sentence><sentence id="860">And there was food, all the food what people was bringing. </sentence><sentence id="861">And I said, "A little bit of a salt." </sentence><sentence id="862">Salt, because we missed salt. </sentence><sentence id="863">So she said, "Don't be so silly!Here, you have a piece of speck [NB: bacon], too." </sentence><sentence id="864">And she gave me. </sentence><sentence id="865">And so I shared that with all the others. </sentence><sentence id="866">But, you know, we were sucking on that skin so much that I broke my tooth on it. ( </sentence><sentence id="867">Laughter) You know, because we been so hungry that that have it... So anyway, this was the first thing. </sentence><sentence id="868">In the morning, two o'clock, they woke us up with screams and with the sticks hitting us: "Raus! </sentence><sentence id="869">Raus! </sentence><sentence id="870">Raus!" </sentence><sentence id="871">Because it was the counting. </sentence><sentence id="872">And because they was so primitive, and so was the SS woman who came there too, thousand...They were so primitive, they couldn't make the counting. </sentence><sentence id="873">So we had to get up two o'clock at night in that freezing cold, bad climate. </sentence><sentence id="874">It was like a punishment from God, this climate there in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="875">Lot of people, they...they fell because they couldn't stand the cold, standing on one spot. </sentence><sentence id="876">I was telling the girls to turn around--you know, like round, around, around. </sentence><sentence id="877">I...those... that mean movement on one spot, because you couldn't...you couldn't go out of the place. </sentence><sentence id="878">That's how it started. </sentence><sentence id="879">And then in the <span class="building">barrack</span>, they started to say that they need people for different work. </sentence><sentence id="880">Like in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> and in the <span class="interior space">sewing rooms</span> and different department. </sentence><sentence id="881">And the girls volunteered then. </sentence><sentence id="882">And you know, everybody wanted a inside job, naturally. </sentence><sentence id="883">And I was with that crazy woman, looking after them; and this um woman, the German woman, she said, "Why don't you go also look for something? </sentence><sentence id="884">You are sitting with those four crazy women. </sentence><sentence id="885">And look after yourself." </sentence><sentence id="886">And I said, "What I am...I don't want to be any time here. </sentence><sentence id="887">And otherwise, I want to go and work in outside and prepare myself. </sentence><sentence id="888">Because I believe once it will be a place for Jews to go, and I want to prepare myself." </sentence><sentence id="889">Morning came, and the <span class="building">Kommandos</span> was standing. </sentence><sentence id="890">And I was volunteering to go...like working in the <span class="dlf">fields</span>. </sentence><sentence id="891">But she knew better than I; so she slapped my face and pulled me in... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="975">Q: Which "she"? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="977">A: Hmmm? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="979">Q: Who is this "she" that slapped you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="981">A: That...that German woman who was in charge of our <span class="interior space">room</span>, which she was from politisch reason there. </sentence><sentence id="982">So she knew about it, so she pulled me in. </sentence><sentence id="983">And she said, "You are going to work inside and help me and scrub the <span class="interior space">floor</span>." </sentence><sentence id="984">I says, "With what? </sentence><sentence id="985">You haven't got anything." </sentence><sentence id="986">She said, "With your nails. </sentence><sentence id="987">But here you will stay." </sentence><sentence id="988">So L...I took water and I scrubbed the wat...the dirt with my nails. </sentence><sentence id="989">But I thought, "I am crazy. </sentence><sentence id="990">I'm going rather outside on the fresh <span class="env feature">air</span>." </sentence><sentence id="991">Next day, the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="992">I did it three times. </sentence><sentence id="993">The third time she said, "What you think you are going to? </sentence><sentence id="994">You are going to work for the <span class="dlf">fields</span> to prepare yourself? </sentence><sentence id="995">How long will you last? </sentence><sentence id="996">They will beat you there. </sentence><sentence id="997">They will, you know, run you there. </sentence><sentence id="998">And you won't last three days there. </sentence><sentence id="999">And I need you there; because look my feet! </sentence><sentence id="1000">I need somebody who will help me." </sentence><sentence id="1001">So, and she said, "Otherwise, tell me what you are from profession that you don't want to go to the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>, or..." I said, "I don't want to tell." </sentence><sentence id="1002">She said, "Tell me." " </sentence><sentence id="1003">I'm a kindergarten teacher." </sentence><sentence id="1004">So she said, "I am a teacher, so I understand what you mean you don't want your profession. </sentence><sentence id="1005">But come and help me." </sentence><sentence id="1006">So let's go start my...my first career. </sentence><sentence id="1007">She said, "Help me, because I am unable to do that." </sentence><sentence id="1008">So I was going to carry the food, the bread, the evening meal. </sentence><sentence id="1009">And we always had to volun...ask for volunteers; because us was a small number and for six hundred people to bring bread and this, that was a hard task. </sentence><sentence id="1010">Because came tired from it. </sentence><sentence id="1011">But we had to have the food, but straight away I used that that I am <span class="building">home</span> for something good; because you can do good even where is impossible. </sentence><sentence id="1012">So I approached the girls who are um working in so-called "Revier"-- like <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1013">I said, "Steal wherever you... whatever you could and bring it <span class="building">home</span> to me, because I know what to use it for." </sentence><sentence id="1014">And to those girls who are working in the <span class="interior space">sewing room</span>, "Bring all the rags what you can. </sentence><sentence id="1015">Steal it. </sentence><sentence id="1016">Put it in the <span class="spatial object">pants</span> and bring it <span class="building">home</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1017">So they brought it <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1018">And when the girls came <span class="building">home</span>, I saw what it is. </sentence><sentence id="1019">Now I understood why she didn't want to, because she...they had terrible experiences right away. </sentence><sentence id="1020">So I bandaged them. </sentence><sentence id="1021">So I gave them some medication what it was. </sentence><sentence id="1022">And I was even, when I gave the food out, I didn't sit down to eat the food; because I was...I saw so many I had to help. </sentence><sentence id="1023">And there was a interesting thing. </sentence><sentence id="1024">There was a girl who was watching me doing that. </sentence><sentence id="1025">And she said, "My name is [Bluma (ph)]."_ </sentence><sentence id="1026">She lives in <span class="country">Israel</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="1027">I am a daughter...and I am a daughter of a rabbi from <span class="populated place">Bratislava</span>," where my husband was born. " </sentence><sentence id="1028">And, you see, I think that God send me watch over you while you are helping others. </sentence><sentence id="1029">And now you are coming and you are sitting down, and you have that little food. </sentence><sentence id="1030">Otherwise you won't have strength to do what you are doing." </sentence><sentence id="1031">And that's what she did. </sentence><sentence id="1032">Every night, she said, "Enough is enough. </sentence><sentence id="1033">Now you are going to sit down and have your meal." </sentence><sentence id="1034">So that's where it started, that togetherness to help each other in the girls where the misery was. </sentence><sentence id="1035">And the sadisms of the woman who took the girls out in <span class="building">kommando</span>, and often they did hurt unnecessary. </sentence><sentence id="1036">Like...you know, the demolition all the...or they didn't want that the civil population should know, being so close, and see <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1037">So they...they demolished some <span class="populated place">villages</span> and they transferred them somewhere else. </sentence><sentence id="1038">But there was ruins. </sentence><sentence id="1039">So they took some woman and watched that; they let some woman go down and some woman on top. </sentence><sentence id="1040">And they had them to demolish and throw the bricks down. </sentence><sentence id="1041">And down the girls was working. </sentence><sentence id="1042">And if they didn't want to, they beat them. " </sentence><sentence id="1043">Throw that <span class="spatial object">bricks</span> down!" </sentence><sentence id="1044">And they threw the bricks on their own friends; and often they came half dead, or dead already. </sentence><sentence id="1045">Or they carried rocks from one place to the other. </sentence><sentence id="1046">"Los! </sentence><sentence id="1047"><span class="populated place">Los</span>!" </sentence><sentence id="1048">So this...this was the start. </sentence><sentence id="1049">And the girls became sick, and the girl became weak. </sentence><sentence id="1050">And some were...some run to the electrical um... We, we had an <span class="dlf">electrical fence</span> which was with um electricity. </sentence><sentence id="1051">So if you touch it, you been dead. </sentence><sentence id="1052">But some girls, they said, "I rather that. </sentence><sentence id="1053">I can't take it anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1054">And I can't see any end to it." </sentence><sentence id="1055">Because except that the work, there was other things that you wouldn't believe it. </sentence><sentence id="1056">There was fleas, artificial-like breeded to that they should jump only on places like eyes, <span class="env feature">ears</span>, nose and <span class="env feature">mouth</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1057">You you couldn't help it. </sentence><sentence id="1058">There was hundreds jumping on you. </sentence><sentence id="1059">Then there was lice. </sentence><sentence id="1060">Everywhere lice, crawling all over you. </sentence><sentence id="1061">And then was lice who was crawling under your skin. </sentence><sentence id="1062">And all that, plus the beatings and the starving and the brutality. </sentence><sentence id="1063">So a lot of girls choose another death. </sentence><sentence id="1064">But we lasted there in this <span class="populated place">camp</span> <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> about...I would say, beginning of August. </sentence><sentence id="1065">I can't tell you exact days that I come. </sentence><sentence id="1066">And then because...you know, days and weeks we didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="1067">We didn't have that somebody says, "It's Monday" or "Tuesday" or... We didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="1068">The days were just passing without us knowing. </sentence><sentence id="1069">And so they took us um on walking to <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span> from <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1070">If <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> was Hell, <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span> was thought on the biggest Satan what can exist. </sentence><sentence id="1071">There was um <span class="building">barracks</span> from clay, which meant before it was for horses. </sentence><sentence id="1072">And the place for one horse suddenly became a <span class="building">lodging</span> for thirty woman. </sentence><sentence id="1073">Because they put two planks across, and some woman was lying down. </sentence><sentence id="1074">Ten down, ten in the middle, and ten on the top. </sentence><sentence id="1075">And they couldn't even move. </sentence><sentence id="1076">They could just lie like sardines, covered up with one blanket. </sentence><sentence id="1077">And this is not enough. </sentence><sentence id="1078">But the whole <span class="populated place">camp</span> was with <span class="dlf">holes</span>, because they supposed to bring canalization there. </sentence><sentence id="1079">But they didn't wait "til they have the canalization, or they have <span class="env feature">water</span> or they have anything. </sentence><sentence id="1080">They brought us there in this <span class="interior space">stage</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1081">First of all, a lot of lice and this place. </sentence><sentence id="1082">And it was muddy. </sentence><sentence id="1083">And it was... You had that one... They... One thing, they took away the Russian uniforms and they gave us one dress. </sentence><sentence id="1084">But nothing under it. " </sentence><sentence id="1085">Nother scarf, and the same wooden clogs. </sentence><sentence id="1086">And they...in that you had to exist in rain, in shine. </sentence><sentence id="1087">So the rain...imagine what it does--the rain and the shine--what it is to a little rag. </sentence><sentence id="1088">It's felling to pieces. </sentence><sentence id="1089">And some girls was falling in that...in those <span class="dlf">holes</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1090">And if you fall in this <span class="dlf">hole</span> and you been weak, you couldn't walk out of it. </sentence><sentence id="1091">That was the end of her. </sentence><sentence id="1092">And except that it was, when it was raining it was muddy. </sentence><sentence id="1093">And it was muddy; and so the girls had the wooden clogs. </sentence><sentence id="1094">And when they walked in it and lost the <span class="spatial object">clogs</span>, they couldn't even take it out anymore; because it was "Los! </sentence><sentence id="1095"><span class="populated place">Los</span>!" </sentence><sentence id="1096">So they run...so they run barefoot in the cold, in the rain. </sentence><sentence id="1097">It was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="1098">And also, there was only one place where the <span class="env feature">water</span> was. </sentence><sentence id="1099">It was one well. </sentence><sentence id="1100">When you took the <span class="env feature">water</span> out in a...like a <span class="spatial object">basket</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1101">You had to wind it up. </sentence><sentence id="1102">But imagine, one for so many thousands. </sentence><sentence id="1103">And the people came <span class="building">home</span> thirsty. </sentence><sentence id="1104">So one over the other. </sentence><sentence id="1105">And lot of girls, they fell in and that was the finish. </sentence><sentence id="1106">And then you couldn't drink that water because it was like that. </sentence><sentence id="1107">And later they made like the <span class="env feature">water</span> in the back of the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1108">But it was always a restriction of the <span class="env feature">water</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1109">Soon you arrived there, they closed up the <span class="env feature">water</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1110">It was all sadistically, brutality. </sentence><sentence id="1111">You know, just make us like really swines. </sentence><sentence id="1112">Because you couldn't wash yourself. </sentence><sentence id="1113">You couldn't go properly to the <span class="spatial object">toilet</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1114">There was just a <span class="dlf">hole</span>, and over the <span class="dlf">hole</span> a piece of plank. </sentence><sentence id="1115">And you was sitting on the <span class="dlf">plank</span> and there was... So, and a lot of people, one push the other. </sentence><sentence id="1116">And if you fell in, that was the finish. </sentence><sentence id="1117">And things like that, for you to see and to...to...to be able to...to...to go on with the life, it's unbelievable. </sentence><sentence id="1118">Unbelievable. </sentence><sentence id="1119">So...and on the other side, like I said, people fell in those--"graven," you call it. </sentence><sentence id="1120">Like, you know, they dig <span class="dlf">ditches</span> for the...the pipes what they wanted to put in. </sentence><sentence id="1121">But they wasn't in hurry to put in. </sentence><sentence id="1122">And often, they made...they call it "<span class="building">Blocksperre</span>" [NB: "<span class="dlf">block</span> closing"). </sentence><sentence id="1123">There was a siren and everybody had to run to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1124">And say the girl was just on the <span class="spatial object">toilet</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1125">And she wanted to run, but there was that <span class="dlf">ditch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1126">They fell in. </sentence><sentence id="1127">And when the siren was over, and whoever was found in those <span class="dlf">ditches</span>, they took them straight away on the <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> to the <span class="building">crematorium</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1128">Often, I did that I saw some friend of mine...they, they just fell in. </sentence><sentence id="1129">So I run out to pull them out and push them back to... Because I thought [to] myself, "Every day when you are alive, maybe...maybe there will be a chance that something will happen and prolong the life. </sentence><sentence id="1130">Maybe some miracle will happen and the war will come to the end, and then they will recuperate." </sentence><sentence id="1131">By one of these such occasions when I did it, and the whistle came up and I was there with the girls. </sentence><sentence id="1132">So, naturally, I also went on the <span class="spatial object">truck</span> with all others to be taken to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1133">And, you know, fate... This woman who many months ago had experiences carrying the <span class="env feature">water</span> with me and I didn't want to be her lesbian friend...but she was just having a Kommando taken out to work and she was the kapo of this kommando. </sentence><sentence id="1134">And she saw me on that <span class="spatial object">truck</span> and she knew. </sentence><sentence id="1135">So she came up and she gave me one big slap; and she pulled me down from the <span class="spatial object">truck</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1136">And to the SS who was guarding, he [NB: she] said, "I couldn't walk out with the <span class="spatial object">Kommando</span> because she is missing!" </sentence><sentence id="1137">And she was, you know, pretending to scream at me. </sentence><sentence id="1138">And when I came and she said, "And now, run!Run for your life." </sentence><sentence id="1139">And that's... and it saved me. </sentence><sentence id="1140">Anyway, and then... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1304">Q: Excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="1305">At this point we're going to pause and change tapes. </sentence><sentence id="1306">This is a good place to change tapes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1310">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="1311">TAPE #2 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1314">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="1315">There was a story you wanted to tell. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1318">A: There is...there is a short story I want to tell you. </sentence><sentence id="1319">When I was a young girl...and because being a only daughter, my father took me to a famous rabbi, who came to the <span class="populated place">city</span>, to be blessed. </sentence><sentence id="1320">When he blessed and put his hands over my head, he says "This girl has a special mission in her life. </sentence><sentence id="1321">She is chosen, and she is going to save hundreds and hundreds of Jewish sisters and brothers. </sentence><sentence id="1322">And that's what her life will be." </sentence><sentence id="1323">My father came <span class="building">home</span>, told my mother. </sentence><sentence id="1324">They said, "What? </sentence><sentence id="1325">Seven year old girl, what he is talking about?" </sentence><sentence id="1326">Um, but naturally I didn't know about it. </sentence><sentence id="1327">Only before I went away, so my mother told me. </sentence><sentence id="1328">Imagine, when you've been...the rabbi told that I don't know why he was telling it. </sentence><sentence id="1329">And um my sister said, "Probably that's what you are doing for Zionism. </sentence><sentence id="1330">That's what it is." </sentence><sentence id="1331">But when I was in <span class="populated place">camp</span>, I felt something that's... Often I opened my mouth, and I say things and I do things, like...it's not me. </sentence><sentence id="1332">Like... don't believe in...in...in unnatural or something. </sentence><sentence id="1333">But it was like that. </sentence><sentence id="1334">Because I undertook to save um my friends, and...and implanted in them to do that, too. </sentence><sentence id="1335">So I thought, "Is it me doing that, or is something in me what is doing it?" </sentence><sentence id="1336">So I just show you one sample. </sentence><sentence id="1337">You see, because the girls was wearing one dress and it was in rain or in shine, so they used the blanket what they have to cover up. </sentence><sentence id="1338">And they tore it up to put it around their <span class="spatial object">chest</span> or wherever. </sentence><sentence id="1339">So they took all the girls who been in charge to a <span class="interior space">room</span> they called <span class="interior space">sauna</span>, where they usually had once in a while um <span class="interior space">shower</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1340">And they put a big <span class="spatial object">table</span> there. </sentence><sentence id="1341">And all the commanders of the <span class="populated place">camp</span> from all over were sitting there. </sentence><sentence id="1342">And they invited all... Invited! ( </sentence><sentence id="1343">Laughter) I am talking invited! </sentence><sentence id="1344">All the...all the woman in charge there, even the charge--it wasn't that we wanted to be in charge. </sentence><sentence id="1345">They pressed us in the charge. </sentence><sentence id="1346">And they...they said, "You know what the women are doing? </sentence><sentence id="1347">They are sabotage!And you... They are tearing the... the <span class="dlf">German property</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1348">And you are there not to prevent them. </sentence><sentence id="1349">So you know what the punishment is for that? </sentence><sentence id="1350">The punishment for that you are going to go, all of you, to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1351">Suddenly, something pushed me. </sentence><sentence id="1352">And I stopped...I made a step forwards, announce my number--because that was...we been only number--and I said to him, to the commanders, I said, "I'm not wondering that they are doing that, because every human being "til he's alive is trying to make his miserable life a little bit less miserable. </sentence><sentence id="1353">If you...if you would be in the same position, you would be doing the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="1354">And if you would give us new clothing after such a long time which they are wearing that one um dress--which from rain and shine it's going to pieces--you would do the same thing." </sentence><sentence id="1355">So, he started to scream at me. </sentence><sentence id="1356">He said, "You are a...a [chuke (ph)], a nasty [chuke (ph)]. </sentence><sentence id="1357">How dare you talking to me like that!?" </sentence><sentence id="1358">And that is expression "frech," which I can't um translate. </sentence><sentence id="1359">It's...you know, who has a big mouth [Ger: "insolent, sassy, cheeky"]. </sentence><sentence id="1360">They call it "<span class="building">frech</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1361">So, and he screamed at me. </sentence><sentence id="1362">So I thought...and the girls in the back, they pulled me back. </sentence><sentence id="1363">"Magda, don't do it. </sentence><sentence id="1364">Don't do it." </sentence><sentence id="1365">But L..and, and I tell myself and...and I said what I wanted to say. </sentence><sentence id="1366">And to my surprise, one of the biggest sadists--which I didn't know he is such a sadist, I...I found it out much later--he got up, and he said, "Listen. </sentence><sentence id="1367">She's not only a like big- mouth [chuke (ph)]. </sentence><sentence id="1368">She has something in her head. </sentence><sentence id="1369">She's right. </sentence><sentence id="1370">We have to give them new clothing." </sentence><sentence id="1371">Next day...and they discharged us, and the whole <span class="populated place">camp</span> got new dresses. </sentence><sentence id="1372">So, I not only saved us three hundred, but saved the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1373">Because they got a little bit warmer and...dresses. </sentence><sentence id="1374">And this is what we did, what we helped each other. </sentence><sentence id="1375">There is another case. </sentence><sentence id="1376">One day, I was watching that the SS man came to select the girls--"left" and "right.". </sentence><sentence id="1377">And who was "left," she had to go to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1378">And there was present a girl...with the SS man was a um girl present which was Report Schreiberin. </sentence><sentence id="1379">She was the one who wrote the reports. </sentence><sentence id="1380">And she had to make the...all the numbers who will go to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1381">I was passing by; and I observed that she's writing something. </sentence><sentence id="1382">And then she looks left and right. </sentence><sentence id="1383">And she doesn't see any SS man; and she sends the girls back to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1384">And so she saved about three hundred girls from immediate death. </sentence><sentence id="1385">How long they will be alive, this nobody could guarantee. </sentence><sentence id="1386">But she did it. </sentence><sentence id="1387">And I saw many times she did it. </sentence><sentence id="1388">And I had...didn't have even the opportunity to ask how you do it. </sentence><sentence id="1389">But I met her after forty-five years, two years ago, in <span class="populated place">Prague</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1390">I went to visit her. </sentence><sentence id="1391">And she told...and I ask her, "Tell me, [Gatka (ph)], how did you do it? </sentence><sentence id="1392">I watched you writing, and then you send them back." </sentence><sentence id="1393">She said, "Listen. </sentence><sentence id="1394">We had to do something, because this was no...no end what they did to us. </sentence><sentence id="1395">So I took from the [<span class="spatial object">cart-a-take</span> (ph)] the dead numbers, of the dead. </sentence><sentence id="1396">And I pretend that I am writing. </sentence><sentence id="1397">And nobody saw. </sentence><sentence id="1398">And I send them, because the SS didn't check it later.". </sentence><sentence id="1399">Because anyway so many other was going; so they didn't check if those three hundreds are in it or not. </sentence><sentence id="1400">And that's what she did many times. </sentence><sentence id="1401">There was another um how the girls, they had only one way to help each other or to survive. </sentence><sentence id="1402">By own help; we didn't have anybody to help us. </sentence><sentence id="1403">We been helpless young girls to thrown in such unbelievable situation, which I don't know Dante couldn't um couldn't find out such situation what we been in. </sentence><sentence id="1404">Sick and fighting with every minute. </sentence><sentence id="1405">Because one minute you been alive, the next minute you been dead. </sentence><sentence id="1406">So one more occasion, I tell you: that I was working in a charge, like um a little helper there. </sentence><sentence id="1407">And we had to put the whole <span class="building">barrack</span> on, because a doctor--by the name [King (ph)], and she...her name is Anna, she lives in <span class="country">Australia</span>--and um they had to select the woman out. </sentence><sentence id="1408">But she gave me a hint, while he was turned around, that "I am going to talk to him, and you girls try to pull the girls in. </sentence><sentence id="1409">They should run in the <span class="building">barrack</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1410">So she turned facing him from the front, and she started to talk to him. </sentence><sentence id="1411">She was very...a very clever representative woman. </sentence><sentence id="1412">And she was telling him all different stories; and while the stories she was telling him, I was telling the girls to run, run, run, run back to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1413">One--which is remarkable and I never forget, because I didn't overhear all what she was telling him because I was concentrating more girls to go in--so she said, "You know..." And she named the...the... how far he was Oberscharsturmfthrer, or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="1414">You know, he was in... How many...he had on. </sentence><sentence id="1415">And she said, "You know who is ...who is responsible for all the war?" </sentence><sentence id="1416">And he was surprised, and said, "Who?" </sentence><sentence id="1417">And she said, "The bicyclists and the Jews." </sentence><sentence id="1418">And he said, "But why the bicyclists?" </sentence><sentence id="1419">And she said, "Why the Jews?" </sentence><sentence id="1420">You know, and he was laughing, "Ha, ha, ha." </sentence><sentence id="1421">You know, it's a big joke. </sentence><sentence id="1422">And meantime, the selection was over and the <span class="populated place">camp</span> was saved. </sentence><sentence id="1423">You see, that's how we could do. </sentence><sentence id="1424">There was no other way. </sentence><sentence id="1425">Just by tricking and being courageous. </sentence><sentence id="1426">And our motto was: "We are just going once through the <span class="dlf">chimney</span>, sooner or later. </sentence><sentence id="1427">But "til we arrive, we have to help each other." </sentence><sentence id="1428">And that's how we helped each other. </sentence><sentence id="1429">And often there was cases, like ... Like I told you, people were sick, you tried to help them. </sentence><sentence id="1430">You had tried to steal some medicine and give them. </sentence><sentence id="1431">But then I myself fell into it; because being always in touch with those sick people, I also got typhoid. </sentence><sentence id="1432">High fever. </sentence><sentence id="1433">My tongue was like the... Did you ever see a chicken stomach from inside, when you open it, how rough it is? </sentence><sentence id="1434">So rough was my tongue. </sentence><sentence id="1435">I had high temperature. </sentence><sentence id="1436">I couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1437">And my stomach, I had to run. </sentence><sentence id="1438">And no medicaments. </sentence><sentence id="1439">The only thing what I wanted is tomato. </sentence><sentence id="1440">Where to got tomato? </sentence><sentence id="1441">But then a group of girls was working for the Germans--they call it <span class="populated place">Rajsko</span>,deg in a <span class="interior space">garden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1442">And endangering her life, she brought a tomato in under her dress. </sentence><sentence id="1443">Because we been so flat anyway. </sentence><sentence id="1444">So you didn't... And she brought a tomato, and with that I rubbed my tongue. </sentence><sentence id="1445">And then what I was asking, it was lemonade. </sentence><sentence id="1446">Where to get lemonade?But one girl was working in the <span class="building">SS canteen</span>, for the SS. </sentence><sentence id="1447">She was... And so the girls told her, "Can you steal a <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="1448">She said, "I can't, but I will. </sentence><sentence id="1449">If they catch me, I know I'll go to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1450">But maybe, if I'm lucky, I...I save her." </sentence><sentence id="1451">So she did. </sentence><sentence id="1452">And she managed to steal a <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>, and she brought it and I was drinking that. </sentence><sentence id="1453">Another girl, she said, "I can't give her any medication. </sentence><sentence id="1454">But I can steal some tablets to strengthen her heart. </sentence><sentence id="1455">That's all what I can give." </sentence><sentence id="1456">So that's what was. </sentence><sentence id="1457">And the other thing was because I became blind, and I became bli...deaf and I couldn't walk. </sentence><sentence id="1458">So how can I... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1604">Q: (Cough) </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1606">A: How can I op... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1608">Q: (Coughing) </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1610">A: And how can I existed? </sentence><sentence id="1611">So one of the girls told to the other girl, "Can you, after work, do a night duty? </sentence><sentence id="1612">And so Magda could rest under the name that she is doing night duty. </sentence><sentence id="1613">I'm going to steal potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="1614">And when you come <span class="building">home</span>, I will cook potatoes so you can strengthen up. </sentence><sentence id="1615">And so Magda will be lying as she is on night duty." </sentence><sentence id="1616">And as high temperature I had, she was telling me that hundred times: "You are on night duty, you are on night duty, you are on night duty. </sentence><sentence id="1617">And when the SS man comes and he probably will see you in <span class="spatial object">bed</span> like the others, then you tell...you can jump out from <span class="spatial object">bed</span> if he wants you to." </sentence><sentence id="1618">And there was a special SS man, who was the biggest sadist what you can imagine. </sentence><sentence id="1619">And he just couldn't see some nice girls and they didn't...he didn't want them to survive. </sentence><sentence id="1620">And by off chance, all the girls caught typhoid. </sentence><sentence id="1621">And the girls was lying, because they couldn't get up. </sentence><sentence id="1622">And he came and they was on <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1623">But we didn't expect him to come, because he had no reason to come there. </sentence><sentence id="1624">Because there was SS man in charge of our <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1625">So he came. </sentence><sentence id="1626">And all the girls--young girls, beautiful--yesterday they was healthy, but today they caught the typhoid and high temperatures. </sentence><sentence id="1627">So they was in <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1628">They all went to <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1629">When he came to me, so I... You know, the sur...surviving is such a power that I said, in very quick German, that "I am on night duty, but if you want I jump out from <span class="spatial object">bed</span>..." So he said, "Shut up! </sentence><sentence id="1630">Hold your tongue! </sentence><sentence id="1631">You bloody Jewess!" </sentence><sentence id="1632">But that saved my life. </sentence><sentence id="1633">Saved my life. </sentence><sentence id="1634">But I still couldn't walk, and I couldn't hear. </sentence><sentence id="1635">So when the counting was, so they just dropped. </sentence><sentence id="1636">Like, like a sa...like a doll, because I was limp. </sentence><sentence id="1637">But um...and in this time, charge, you know, of <span class="building">barracks</span> was a German woman, a prisoner. </sentence><sentence id="1638">And she said, "I can't cover up for her. </sentence><sentence id="1639">I must send her into the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span> like these others. </sentence><sentence id="1640">She can't work. </sentence><sentence id="1641">She's no good for nothing." </sentence><sentence id="1642">But one of the girls says, "Listen, I tell you what. </sentence><sentence id="1643">I can sew. </sentence><sentence id="1644">If you bring me needle, thread and deg Part of the <span class="building">Auschwitz I complex</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1645">material, I will sew you beautiful dresses, whatever. </sentence><sentence id="1646">Just give her a chance to...to...to be ali...to get better. </sentence><sentence id="1647">And she will get better." </sentence><sentence id="1648">So she said, "Alright. </sentence><sentence id="1649">But you look after her. </sentence><sentence id="1650">It's your responsibility. </sentence><sentence id="1651">If some SS man comes and sees her and he says, "To the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>!," </sentence><sentence id="1652">off she goes." </sentence><sentence id="1653">So she said, "I will take that chance." </sentence><sentence id="1654">So she sewed her, and she let me stay. </sentence><sentence id="1655">And so it was one more day and one more day. </sentence><sentence id="1656">But what happened, there one day they decided that new arrivals are coming and they need the <span class="interior space">space</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1657">So they told us we have to go out from the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1658">And there was a big empty <span class="dlf">paddock</span> with nothing on, just snow and freezing. </sentence><sentence id="1659">And there we had to stay all day. </sentence><sentence id="1660">I couldn't walk. </sentence><sentence id="1661">So two girls from each side, they took me here by my hand and they carried me. </sentence><sentence id="1662">And my head, legs was dangling; and they carried me and they pinched me that when SS man came I shouldn't say something. </sentence><sentence id="1663">Because I didn't see. </sentence><sentence id="1664">I didn't hear. </sentence><sentence id="1665">I just could talk. </sentence><sentence id="1666">So they pinched me so I knew I should be quiet. </sentence><sentence id="1667">And so they carried me like that outside; and one of the girls...and this is how we helped each other. </sentence><sentence id="1668">She managed to get a bottle somewhere and she put tea in the bottle; and in that um what we got the food, it was a round dish. </sentence><sentence id="1669">She put the <span class="spatial object">bottle</span> in the <span class="spatial object">dish</span>, and she put it here. </sentence><sentence id="1670">As I said, we been so flat so it didn't made any difference. </sentence><sentence id="1671">Can you imagine that I was so flat I didn't have anything? </sentence><sentence id="1672">Nothing, just bones. </sentence><sentence id="1673">Nothing, just bones. </sentence><sentence id="1674">Nothing...breast, no. </sentence><sentence id="1675">Anyway, so they took me there. </sentence><sentence id="1676">And there was a <span class="env feature">rock</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1677">They put me on the <span class="env feature">rock</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1678">And from time to time, they gave me a sip of water I shouldn't freeze to death [on the] <span class="env feature">rock</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1679">And then they carried me a little bit around, and put me on the <span class="env feature">rock</span> again. </sentence><sentence id="1680">Now what happened: on the way back, they...a lot of girls froze to death there. </sentence><sentence id="1681">And they was dead or half-dead. </sentence><sentence id="1682">And the rest, when we came in, they selected seventy percent out of the girls--good or bad--to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1683">Lucky, the girls from both sides which carried me, they been in better shape so they didn't saw me in between. </sentence><sentence id="1684">Which saved me. </sentence><sentence id="1685">And now we knew why they did it, because new arrivals from all different <span class="region">part of the world</span> came. </sentence><sentence id="1686">From <span class="country">Belgium</span>, from <span class="country">France</span>, from <span class="country">Holland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1687">And so they needed the <span class="interior space">space</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1688">That's how they made the <span class="interior space">space</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1689">First they tortured them to death, and then they send them to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1690">And um that was our existence. </sentence><sentence id="1691">That was our existence. </sentence><sentence id="1692">And I, by off chance, I had...I was in charge from time to time in all nationalities I had. </sentence><sentence id="1693">Jewish and non-Jewish. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1780">Q: Explain what were you in charge of. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1782">A: First I was the... How you say? </sentence><sentence id="1783">A vice...like a vice, vice president you have. </sentence><sentence id="1784">So it was a <span class="dlf">block</span> oldest [NB: Blockaltester], and I was either the...like the vice um oldest or I was just um helping to bring the food, and <span class="dlf">block</span>... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1788">Q: An <span class="dlf">assistant block</span>...Blockaltester. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1790">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="1791">That was for a while I was doing that. </sentence><sentence id="1792">And funny thing, the way I tried to handle people... One of the girls who didn't know, she said, "Magda, you handle always people like... like they would be in the <span class="building">kindergarten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1793">Like you would be a kindergarten teacher." </sentence><sentence id="1794">I didn't tell anybody I am. </sentence><sentence id="1795">But I tried to help them. </sentence><sentence id="1796">I tried to talk to them, and encourage them. </sentence><sentence id="1797">When what happened one day, you know, they selected people and they didn't send them straight away to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1798">They collected them in one of the <span class="building">barracks</span>, which was <span class="building">Number 25</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1799">And when it was full--and also outside the <span class="building">barrack</span>, because it was a big <span class="dlf">fence</span> built around them. </sentence><sentence id="1800">Because from beginning, it wasn't a <span class="dlf">fence</span> and some girls they run through the <span class="dlf">fence</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1801">Even it was um like nails on the top, but somehow they run through. </sentence><sentence id="1802">Because they wasn't really so bad, so they run through. </sentence><sentence id="1803">So they made a <span class="dlf">fence</span> all over. </sentence><sentence id="1804">So now they let also on the <span class="interior space">floor</span> sitting those girls awaiting "til the <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> will come. </sentence><sentence id="1805">And it was hot and no <span class="env feature">water</span>, and their face was swollen up. </sentence><sentence id="1806">And it was just...their their eyes was....it was just two spots and a nose. </sentence><sentence id="1807">And it is... it is... I tell you, the heart was breaking. </sentence><sentence id="1808">And I was...I, I saw it. </sentence><sentence id="1809">So I volunteered. </sentence><sentence id="1810">I said, "Let me go in." </sentence><sentence id="1811">I asked. " </sentence><sentence id="1812">I am going to to give them <span class="env feature">water</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1813">They said, "Are you crazy? </sentence><sentence id="1814">If SS man sees you, you go!" " </sentence><sentence id="1815">So I go with them. </sentence><sentence id="1816">But I can't see those people suffer before the last minutes, being so swollen and and dying for a...for a drop of water, in that terrible heat without having anything on their head or protecting." </sentence><sentence id="1817">So I took, you know, a dish and a cup; and I went from one to one. </sentence><sentence id="1818">And I said to myself, "If I die with them, I die. </sentence><sentence id="1819">But I can't...can't see it. </sentence><sentence id="1820">At least, the last moment." </sentence><sentence id="1821">They been so grateful. </sentence><sentence id="1822">They knew they are going to die, but they said, "At least we have a little <span class="env feature">water</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1823">And you know, the selection was done in a terrible way. </sentence><sentence id="1824">Like sometimes it was a sickness which is not even a sickness. </sentence><sentence id="1825">It is just like a scratching. </sentence><sentence id="1826">You call it "<span class="building">kretze</span>," you know? </sentence><sentence id="1827">It was also an implanted thing. </sentence><sentence id="1828">But they knew about it. </sentence><sentence id="1829">So they let the woman undress totally naked; and when somebody had a little mark of scratch, in they went to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1830">Then later, I...1 became a <span class="dlf">block</span> oldest. </sentence><sentence id="1831">And in every <span class="building">barrack</span>, there was a SS man responsible for that <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1832">And he had the right every day to make selection himself. </sentence><sentence id="1833">Even so that many people went to work, but some was staying <span class="building">home</span> because either they didn't needed them or they was not well; so they was at <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1834">And that SS man made the selection again. </sentence><sentence id="1835">So I said, "How could I stand by and see him selecting the people, my own friends and bro...and sisters?" </sentence><sentence id="1836">So I arranged the girls so that in the front and in the back was a strong girl, and everywhere; and in the middle was the weaker ones. </sentence><sentence id="1837">And I pushed the girls together. " </sentence><sentence id="1838">Cause usually you had to stand so that you can go through, here and there, and here and there. </sentence><sentence id="1839">And he said, "Do you think I don't know why you're pushing the girls so much in together? </sentence><sentence id="1840">So I couldn't walk through, I shouldn't see that they are sick or weak woman which I have to send to <span class="building">crematorium</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1841">And I said, "Yes, that's why I did it. </sentence><sentence id="1842">But I'm going to tell you something. </sentence><sentence id="1843">They are not so sick that a few days at <span class="building">home</span> wouldn't...they wouldn't recover. </sentence><sentence id="1844">They just need a little rest." " </sentence><sentence id="1845">So, and what are you going to do?How...how you want to do that?," </sentence><sentence id="1846">he says. </sentence><sentence id="1847">So I said, "I tell you how. ( </sentence><sentence id="1848">Pause - drinking water) I want to do something good for <span class="country">Germany</span>." " </sentence><sentence id="1849">What you mean, "good"?" ( </sentence><sentence id="1850">Pause) I said, "You know how many um shoes are lying around, and how many dresses are discarded everywhere? </sentence><sentence id="1851">Lying around in <span class="spatial object">heaps</span>, and not...nothing happen to them. </sentence><sentence id="1852">And those can be recycled." " </sentence><sentence id="1853">What you mean, "recycled"?" </sentence><sentence id="1854">I said, "Washed and dried. </sentence><sentence id="1855">And those girls can do it. </sentence><sentence id="1856">All the shoes," I said, "could be gathered and washed and dried and band together. </sentence><sentence id="1857">And while they are doing that, they will recover." " </sentence><sentence id="1858">Where are they going to do it?" </sentence><sentence id="1859">I said, "In the back in the <span class="building">barrack</span>, there is a <span class="interior space">wash room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1860">And they can wash there. </sentence><sentence id="1861">I will look after them. </sentence><sentence id="1862">I will get some string where they will dry the clothes, and they will dry the shoes. </sentence><sentence id="1863">And it's recycled, you can use it again. </sentence><sentence id="1864">And the good things, you can send to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1865">That's a...a service, isn't it? </sentence><sentence id="1866">Give me that chance!" </sentence><sentence id="1867">And he says, "Have it. </sentence><sentence id="1868">If you want to bother with that, go on. </sentence><sentence id="1869">Bother." </sentence><sentence id="1870">I said, "Thank you." </sentence><sentence id="1871">And I established that, that they was in the back doing what I said. </sentence><sentence id="1872">And I tried to...you call it "organize" food. </sentence><sentence id="1873">I said to the girls, the... Next to the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>, it was um onions and potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="1874">And woman was peeling it; and there was a <span class="dlf">fence</span> clo...around it. </sentence><sentence id="1875">Not Jewish girls do that, because it was too good for Jewish girls. </sentence><sentence id="1876">Jewish girls would survive there. </sentence><sentence id="1877">So they gave it to the Polish girls. </sentence><sentence id="1878">But you know, one way or another, you make a eye contact; and when nobody sees... So we told them, "Throw some potatoes close to the <span class="dlf">fence</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1879">And in the evening when nobody's there and the SS man is out, so we will pull that before...between the <span class="dlf">fence</span> out, the onions and the potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="1880">And we will in this way help each other." </sentence><sentence id="1881">And some of the girls could do miracles. </sentence><sentence id="1882">They could cook from...from nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1883">From nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1884">They could um peel the potatoes; and they found some dish and they made <span class="dlf">holes</span> in it and they (laughter) mashed it up. </sentence><sentence id="1885">And then they, somewhere from the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>--also from...from Polish girl--they got flour. </sentence><sentence id="1886">And they mixed it up and they boiled it. </sentence><sentence id="1887">And it was food. </sentence><sentence id="1888">Additional food. </sentence><sentence id="1889">So you see, little things like that made a difference in helping, somehow. </sentence><sentence id="1890">And some girls who worked outside and digging the potatoes out, sometimes... Again, it was dangerous. </sentence><sentence id="1891">If they catch you with one onion, one potato: death. </sentence><sentence id="1892">But they did it. </sentence><sentence id="1893">They brought the potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="1894">Everyone brought one potato or two, and so they helped somehow. </sentence><sentence id="1895">How long, nobody had a guarantee; because came the selection was so often happening. </sentence><sentence id="1896">So often. </sentence><sentence id="1897">Some...and if...if it wasn't...if it wasn't then, they punished you this way or the other way, or...or beat you up. </sentence><sentence id="1898">I tell you a sample. </sentence><sentence id="1899">A nice girl-- she was blond and blue eyes--and she was working. </sentence><sentence id="1900">SS man came to her. " </sentence><sentence id="1901">I show you blue eyes!" </sentence><sentence id="1902">And he took the revolver...not the revolver, the big one. </sentence><sentence id="1903">How you call that? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2021">Q: <span class="spatial object">Rifle</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2023">A: The <span class="spatial object">rifle</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2024">And beat her so long that he beat her to death. </sentence><sentence id="2025">And he says, "Now you can have blue eyes!" </sentence><sentence id="2026">And things like that happened very often. </sentence><sentence id="2027">Or they say, "Would you run there and there. </sentence><sentence id="2028">And bring me that, my cap." </sentence><sentence id="2029">And while she was running and doing the order, he shot her. </sentence><sentence id="2030">For nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2031">So like ...like I told you, I was from time to time chosen from one function to another. </sentence><sentence id="2032">I didn't want to; but when the SS said, "You are going to be <span class="dlf">block</span> oldest," there was no excuse. </sentence><sentence id="2033">You said, "No," right... So you been. </sentence><sentence id="2034">And now it depended on you. </sentence><sentence id="2035">You could...and you tried to do the best you could. </sentence><sentence id="2036">Not everyone could. </sentence><sentence id="2037">A sixteen year old girl in charge for thousands hungry, tired, sick girls, to keep order... Because order has to be, you know. </sentence><sentence id="2038">The German order has to be. </sentence><sentence id="2039">And if it wasn't, so she went to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span> because she couldn't manage. </sentence><sentence id="2040">But they didn't consider that she's sixteen years old, and how can you manage? </sentence><sentence id="2041">Not everybody could manage. </sentence><sentence id="2042">And cases like that was many, many. </sentence><sentence id="2043">And um I had um... When I came in charge, so I had Czech not Jewish girls from Bene8--he was President of Czechoslovakia.deg The whole family came there. </sentence><sentence id="2044">Then I have Polish woman, non-Jewish woman. </sentence><sentence id="2045">And that costed me terrible much, because they had typhoid and they had diarrhea. </sentence><sentence id="2046">And being on the third <span class="spatial object">bunk</span>, how can you run down with diarrhea to get to the <span class="spatial object">toilet</span> who was so far? </sentence><sentence id="2047">It's impossible! </sentence><sentence id="2048">So, first of all, um with the girls I choose from the girls on the new arrivals a few who would be my helpers. </sentence><sentence id="2049">So I said, "We have to do something." </sentence><sentence id="2050">So we steal some ...it was <span class="spatial object">wooden boxes</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2051">And we cut a <span class="dlf">hole</span> in, and we put a like...what you...what you carrying food in it...a <span class="spatial object">bucket</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2052">We put the <span class="spatial object">bucket</span> in so (r) Edvard BeneS was the democratically-elected President of <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span> until he resigned in October 1938 just after the <span class="populated place">Munich</span> Conference. </sentence><sentence id="2053">they could relieve themselves. </sentence><sentence id="2054">But some couldn't even walk down. </sentence><sentence id="2055">So what they did, the poor girls, in that dish--which is not even nice to say--what they had for food, they finish themselves there. </sentence><sentence id="2056">And they threw it through the <span class="dlf">window</span> out; because <span class="dlf">windows</span> was broken. </sentence><sentence id="2057">There wasn't <span class="dlf">windows</span>, good <span class="dlf">windows</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2058">So they threw it out. </sentence><sentence id="2059">But imagine, then came the <span class="env feature">sun</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2060">And that was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="2061">So I found out that in back of the <span class="building">barrack</span>, there is a certain clay where the gypsies used to make their <span class="building">houses</span> to cover it from. </sentence><sentence id="2062">So I said, "A good idea!" </sentence><sentence id="2063">Then I approached one day a man who delivered all...for the Kommandant woman. </sentence><sentence id="2064">And I...when nobody saw me, I said, "Please bring me two whitewash, and two..." How you say?Where the beer is in. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2110">Q: <span class="spatial object">Kegs</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2112">A: Yeah. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2114">Q: Kegs of beer. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2116">A: Big <span class="spatial object">kegs</span>, big... How you call them? </sentence><sentence id="2117">I don't know the expression in this moment. </sentence><sentence id="2118">He said, "How you want me to? </sentence><sentence id="2119">Where do I get it?" </sentence><sentence id="2120">I said, "I don't care." " </sentence><sentence id="2121">How will I get it in?" </sentence><sentence id="2122">I said, "You're delivering for the <span class="building">kommandant</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2123">So if...if somebody asks, it's for her." " </sentence><sentence id="2124">But what happen if they say, "It's...it's not for her"?" " </sentence><sentence id="2125">Then you tell it's for me. </sentence><sentence id="2126">Then I have the responsibility." </sentence><sentence id="2127">But, somehow, he went through. </sentence><sentence id="2128">He put it down. </sentence><sentence id="2129">The girls quickly grabbed it and took it in. </sentence><sentence id="2130">And during the night, the one group... Yah, we steal some um leather and sticks, and rags which we covered the stick on. </sentence><sentence id="2131">And they did that outside with that mud, which had the color of um...nearly color of the bricks; and the <span class="dlf">windows</span>, and inside the girls did it with the whitewash. </sentence><sentence id="2132">I thought I will disinfect the <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2133">And I had already that here, and maybe it will help a little. </sentence><sentence id="2134">But I didn't realize what I am doing. </sentence><sentence id="2135">In the morning, they got up and here is the <span class="building">barracks</span> standing with white <span class="dlf">windows</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2136">Can you imagine that?Oh! </sentence><sentence id="2137">They run. </sentence><sentence id="2138">You know, they say, "We are going to shoot you, hang you, because you are going to give signs for the...for the Americans: "So here is a <span class="populated place">camp</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2139">You know what you doing? </sentence><sentence id="2140">You are doing the worst thing, and for that is punishment. </sentence><sentence id="2141">Not in the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>, but punishment. </sentence><sentence id="2142">First punished, punish and then hanged too. </sentence><sentence id="2143">But first you will get it." </sentence><sentence id="2144">So I thought, "What I am going to do?" </sentence><sentence id="2145">And meantime, I... that SS man who...you know, who was in my <span class="building">barrack</span> when I did the ...what I did with the washing, he was in another <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2146">And by one occasion, when he was in my <span class="building">barrack</span>, some girls was so grateful. </sentence><sentence id="2147">So from rags, they made me two dolls. </sentence><sentence id="2148">You know the...I don't know if you know in <span class="country">America</span>, but in <span class="country">Europe</span> it was like um long legs, long hands, with black velvet. </sentence><sentence id="2149">And here it had the pointed um head, and the face was white and pointed. </sentence><sentence id="2150">And it was such a doll. </sentence><sentence id="2151">And they made me that. </sentence><sentence id="2152">I don't where they got the material and whatever, because the impossible was possible. </sentence><sentence id="2153">And they put it on my <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2154">And I said, "My goodness! </sentence><sentence id="2155">What I am going to do with that?They found it, so then I am in trouble and they are in trouble: where did they get it." </sentence><sentence id="2156">So I thought myself, "Be smart. </sentence><sentence id="2157">Give it to him as a present." </sentence><sentence id="2158">So I ...when he came in, I said, "You are probably going one stage <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2159">Take it to your wife as a present. </sentence><sentence id="2160">She will be very pleased." </sentence><sentence id="2161">He said, "Oh, that's beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="2162">That's a good idea! </sentence><sentence id="2163">I really was thinking what to get to my wife. </sentence><sentence id="2164">That's what I am going to take." </sentence><sentence id="2165">And he forgot to punish me. </sentence><sentence id="2166">So...but what now I use the opportunity. </sentence><sentence id="2167">So I approached him, and I said, "You know what, they want to hang me, but first to punish me and...and get...beat me up and so on. </sentence><sentence id="2168">But what I did, I do it for some hygienic reason." </sentence><sentence id="2169">And I said, "And I did for you, too.". " </sentence><sentence id="2170">How you mean?" " </sentence><sentence id="2171">Because you and the other SS who are coming to the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, and they are approaching the bad <span class="building">barracks</span> where the typhoid is, they will get it, too." </sentence><sentence id="2172">She [NB: he] said, "Don't tell anybody. </sentence><sentence id="2173">Just recently five SS man died on typhoid." </sentence><sentence id="2174">First I thought myself, "Oh, let them go. </sentence><sentence id="2175">Why only us? </sentence><sentence id="2176">Let them be ill, too." </sentence><sentence id="2177">But on the other <span class="region">side</span>, he said, "Hold on." </sentence><sentence id="2178">So I hold on; and he went to the SS men commanders. " </sentence><sentence id="2179">Cause that was the woman commanders. </sentence><sentence id="2180">The man commanders; and he explained that "What she's doing is really for..." Not on...not for us, so much as for them, because they are coming to the <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2181">So they was talking in favor of me. </sentence><sentence id="2182">And now they came back, and you know what? " </sentence><sentence id="2183">The commander says that you are in charge. </sentence><sentence id="2184">And you will have to tell all others that they have to do the same thing what you doing...what you did." " </sentence><sentence id="2185">Oh, my God. </sentence><sentence id="2186">Did I have...did I need that?," </sentence><sentence id="2187">I said. </sentence><sentence id="2188">But I was running around; and when I came to the <span class="building">barrack</span> where that was the 25th <span class="building">barrack</span>--where all they was selecting to the death--so he said, "Are you crazy?!" </sentence><sentence id="2189">Because there was a huge <span class="dlf">wall</span> around, and you know how much work it has to do to paint that, too. </sentence><sentence id="2190">So he said, "Are you crazy?! </sentence><sentence id="2191">I'm going to...to listen to a bloody Jewess, she has crazy ideas?" </sentence><sentence id="2192">And I said...announced my number, I said, "Would you be so kind and ask the commander?" </sentence><sentence id="2193">He looked at me. </sentence><sentence id="2194">He didn't say a word. </sentence><sentence id="2195">And so... But what happened: now the women was very mad at me. </sentence><sentence id="2196">And they wanted to kill me, and now the men saved me. </sentence><sentence id="2197">They have to punish me somehow. </sentence><sentence id="2198">So what happened: in this stage, the <span class="building">experimental barrack</span> opened in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, in <span class="building">Barrack 10</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2199">So they said, "Alright. </sentence><sentence id="2200">They saved your life. </sentence><sentence id="2201">But in you go, in the <span class="dlf">experimental block</span>...<span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2202">But you will be in charge of the <span class="building">barrack</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2203">So I ask straight away, "But could you give me also help, because I can't manage." " </sentence><sentence id="2204">Ah, take yourself!" </sentence><sentence id="2205">So I said, "Sixteen girls." </sentence><sentence id="2206">And I quickly named girls which are... they working outside, and I knew they won't last long. </sentence><sentence id="2207">So I took those girls with me. </sentence><sentence id="2208">And I went to the that <span class="building">barracks</span>, which was the <span class="dlf">windows</span>--that was the only <span class="building">women barrack</span> in the <span class="populated place">men camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2209">So they close...the <span class="dlf">windows</span> was all with shutters and wire wiring. </sentence><sentence id="2210">So we couldn't look out, and they couldn't look in. </sentence><sentence id="2211">And we been closed up. </sentence><sentence id="2212">And a SS woman was there all day with us. </sentence><sentence id="2213">And the food was delivered "til the <span class="dlf">door</span> and--by men--and the woman took over. </sentence><sentence id="2214">But when I arrived there...so Hauptsturmftihrer Doctor Wirths,(r) whose brain child this idea was, he came and he said to me... I was blond and short cropped hair. </sentence><sentence id="2215">My hair grew a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="2216">And I was slim, naturally. </sentence><sentence id="2217">And he said, "You are not Jewish, are you?" </sentence><sentence id="2218">And I said, "Yeah, I am Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="2219">Like all others." " </sentence><sentence id="2220">There must be a mistake." </sentence><sentence id="2221">He said, "There must be a mistake. </sentence><sentence id="2222">You don't act like Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="2223">You don't look like Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="2224">You don't behave like Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="2225">You'll stand up for yourself. </sentence><sentence id="2226">There is a mistake." </sentence><sentence id="2227">And he said, "And what are you from profession?" </sentence><sentence id="2228">I said, "Kindergarten teacher." " </sentence><sentence id="2229">That proves it!" ( </sentence><sentence id="2230">Laughter) Incredible! </sentence><sentence id="2231">That 7 According to the Auschwitz Chronicle, this would have been at the beginning of April 1943.See Czech, <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> Chronicle, 1939-1945, pp. </sentence><sentence id="2232">366-387.8 SS Oberstiirmbannfiihrer Eduard Wirths, born 1909. </sentence><sentence id="2233">Garrison physician in charge of all medical personnel at <span class="populated place">KL Auschwitz</span> from 06 Sep 1942. </sentence><sentence id="2234">proves it! </sentence><sentence id="2235">Why? </sentence><sentence id="2236">Why does that prove it? </sentence><sentence id="2237">So now I saw that he wants this way. </sentence><sentence id="2238">So I said, "If you want that to be a <span class="building">hospital</span>, then we need blankets and then we need <span class="spatial object">bed</span> covers, sheets and towels and soaps. </sentence><sentence id="2239">And even nightgowns." </sentence><sentence id="2240">I told myself, "Now he's going to give me a kick in my pants!" </sentence><sentence id="2241">But he said, "Alright. </sentence><sentence id="2242">You can have everything, and it will be delivered today. </sentence><sentence id="2243">But the nightgowns will come tomorrow." </sentence><sentence id="2244">You see? </sentence><sentence id="2245">And now, because I managed to do that, so every SS man told that I am his protegee. </sentence><sentence id="2246">I didn't do anything for him, and I didn't even try to make a nice face opposite. </sentence><sentence id="2247">But that was written I am his protegee. </sentence><sentence id="2248">And um now I tell you, you know, because it's a tragicomedy. </sentence><sentence id="2249">Those girls was there in the <span class="building">barracks</span> to choosen for the experiments. </sentence><sentence id="2250">So I thought to enlighten their life a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="2251">I said, "As the nighties come, you are not going to pick and choose. </sentence><sentence id="2252">If it's a small <span class="spatial object">nightie</span> and a big woman, she has it or worse. </sentence><sentence id="2253">And they can't exchange it." </sentence><sentence id="2254">And then they are walking down from the <span class="dlf">step down</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2255">So imagine, with those miserables as they been, it was a laughter. </sentence><sentence id="2256">Because a tall woman had a nightie coming here (showing hand on thigh) and (laughter) and a small woman had a nightie coming there (showing hand on ankle). </sentence><sentence id="2257">So I said, "Don't laugh! </sentence><sentence id="2258">This is the fashion parade." </sentence><sentence id="2259">And then it gave me idea that, matter of fact, now where we are closed up--because the SS woman went away. </sentence><sentence id="2260">Um, she was there "til lunch time counting, and then she went. </sentence><sentence id="2261">So we been locked up. </sentence><sentence id="2262">So I said, "Is there anybody who is um like a little bit in the <span class="building">theater</span>, or knows something? </sentence><sentence id="2263">Dancing, acting, whatever. </sentence><sentence id="2264">And we will make <span class="building">theater</span> in the evening." </sentence><sentence id="2265">And that's what we established, a little group. </sentence><sentence id="2266">And nobody was there. </sentence><sentence id="2267">We was sitting down, and somebody was performing. </sentence><sentence id="2268">But I tell you what. </sentence><sentence id="2269">I didn't last there long either. </sentence><sentence id="2270">Why? </sentence><sentence id="2271">Because I... First of all, I must tell you that that um about the experiments, closer I can't tell you. </sentence><sentence id="2272">Because I wasn't a nurse. </sentence><sentence id="2273">I just checked which experiments are the least dangerous, there I will put more people. </sentence><sentence id="2274">So the sterilization was not so dangerous; because a doctor said to me that is his idea, and that Dr. Clauberg? </sentence><sentence id="2275">stole the idea for him before he finished it. </sentence><sentence id="2276">So he...even if it's not pleasant, what they still will be able if they survive, to have children. </sentence><sentence id="2277">But they didn't survive, from other reason. </sentence><sentence id="2278">But then, naturally, they made also a very bad experiments. </sentence><sentence id="2279">Brutal experiments, without any anesthetic. </sentence><sentence id="2280">Terrible! </sentence><sentence id="2281">And the girls suffered. </sentence><sentence id="2282">And the radiation they made. </sentence><sentence id="2283">And I tell you, it's terrible. </sentence><sentence id="2284">And when they finished with the experiments, they send them to <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span> where they didn't last long. </sentence><sentence id="2285">Because now they been sleeping in <span class="spatial object">bed</span> and had a blanket and had a towel. </sentence><sentence id="2286">And they even if they suffered, but they had a little bit and like could look after themself. </sentence><sentence id="2287">And there was nurses which could help them a little. </sentence><sentence id="2288">But that, they didn't survive. </sentence><sentence id="2289">So even, like I said, the sterilization wasn't so bad. </sentence><sentence id="2290">But they didn't survive when they...When it was the experiments was ready they sent in; and they are not needed anymore, and then send them away. </sentence><sentence id="2291">What... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2474">Q: Can you tell us something about the women in the experimental <span class="building">barracks</span>, people there? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2476">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="2477">I tell you one case. </sentence><sentence id="2478">Um they picked some woman which they made mask. </sentence><sentence id="2479">And they said...they said the Jewish race is minor below the Aryan race, and they want to prove it deg SSs Brigadeftihrer (honorary) Dr. Carl Clauberg, born 1898. </sentence><sentence id="2480">Physician in charge of the sterilization experiments on women at <span class="populated place">KL Auschwitz</span> from April 1943. </sentence><sentence id="2481">somehow. </sentence><sentence id="2482">So they took the mask, and then they said they are going to send them to a <span class="building">sanitorium</span> where they will have a good life and the doctors will making certain experiments on it. </sentence><sentence id="2483">They closed the women up in a <span class="interior space">room</span>, and they give the key to me because I was in charge of this <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2484">Like I told you, the protegee of Dr. Wirths. </sentence><sentence id="2485">But suddenly... And they supposed to come at nighttime, twelve o'clock, to pick them up. </sentence><sentence id="2486">Suddenly a girl pick...um knocked on the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2487">She said, "Please, let me out. </sentence><sentence id="2488">I don't believe they are sending us to the <span class="building">sanitorium</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2489">Because how can they make to prove that our brain is not good? </sentence><sentence id="2490">They have to kill us first. </sentence><sentence id="2491">So this is not a <span class="building">sanitorium</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2492">It is a certain <span class="populated place">camp</span> where they will kill us first, and then from our brain they will make the experiments." </sentence><sentence id="2493">So she said, "Let me out." </sentence><sentence id="2494">So I let her out. </sentence><sentence id="2495">Another one knocked. </sentence><sentence id="2496">She said, "I have a sister here. </sentence><sentence id="2497">I want to be with her. </sentence><sentence id="2498">Please let me out." </sentence><sentence id="2499">I let her out. </sentence><sentence id="2500">Closed the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2501">I didn't think what will be the after effect of it. </sentence><sentence id="2502">I let her out. </sentence><sentence id="2503">And, naturally, when they came, they didn't think that the um amount is not proper. </sentence><sentence id="2504">But when they put them on the <span class="spatial object">train</span> coming to that <span class="populated place">camp</span> where they did that--they killed them and they made. </sentence><sentence id="2505">Later I found out. </sentence><sentence id="2506">But after the war I found out; not during the war. </sentence><sentence id="2507">So they counted up two are missing. </sentence><sentence id="2508">And they said, "You know what you did? </sentence><sentence id="2509">This is sabotage! </sentence><sentence id="2510">What right did it give you to take the girls out? </sentence><sentence id="2511">You know what you are going to get for it? </sentence><sentence id="2512">You are going to be punished, and you are going to be hanged or shot!" </sentence><sentence id="2513">And in 11, <span class="building">Barrack 11</span>, was a man named Jacob who was the hangman. </sentence><sentence id="2514">But he was a Jewish man and a very good-hearted man. </sentence><sentence id="2515">But sometimes, he couldn't help it. </sentence><sentence id="2516">He had to do it. </sentence><sentence id="2517">Otherwise, they kill him. </sentence><sentence id="2518">And he send a message to me. </sentence><sentence id="2519">He said, "Magda, I will do it in the quickest way." </sentence><sentence id="2520">So I was prepared. </sentence><sentence id="2521">And they send me to the <span class="building">Politisch Abteilung</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2522">That means the "Politisch [NB: Political] Department." </sentence><sentence id="2523">A woman came to pick me up. </sentence><sentence id="2524">And there was <span class="building">Aumeier</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2525">"deg He was a small man with a husky voice, who was a brute. </sentence><sentence id="2526">Who came under his hand, with his own hands he murdered him on the spot. </sentence><sentence id="2527">Whoever it was. </sentence><sentence id="2528">And she said, "Goodbye, Madga. </sentence><sentence id="2529">I know you are not going to survive that. </sentence><sentence id="2530">Because he will tear you to pieces like he does with the others." </sentence><sentence id="2531">What can I do? </sentence><sentence id="2532">So we said goodbye. </sentence><sentence id="2533">But I came in; and he said, "What are you thinking, Staatskriminal ...?!". </sentence><sentence id="2534">You know, and made him... I said, "I did what I was asked for, and I think I did a good thing." </sentence><sentence id="2535">He say, "What!?!" </sentence><sentence id="2536">And he screamed, but he didn't touch me. </sentence><sentence id="2537">I can't believe it, even today not. </sentence><sentence id="2538">He didn't touch me. </sentence><sentence id="2539">So I told myself, "Who did it?" </sentence><sentence id="2540">Then I thought, "That's the work of Hauptsturmfiihrer Doctor Wirths. </sentence><sentence id="2541">He did it. </sentence><sentence id="2542">He wanted to frighten me. </sentence><sentence id="2543">And he wanted to please the woman [NB: SS women commanders], you know? </sentence><sentence id="2544">But he didn't kill me. </sentence><sentence id="2545">And what happened once, with Hauptsturmfithrer Wirths, there in the <span class="building">barracks</span> was... in the um <span class="building">experiment barracks</span>, was a lot of Greek girls. </sentence><sentence id="2546">And I tried to help them; well, because either you try your best or you you don't care. </sentence><sentence id="2547">But I cared. </sentence><sentence id="2548">Wherever I could, I helped. </sentence><sentence id="2549">So they were so grateful that, again I don't know where they got it, they made me two <span class="spatial object">pillows</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2550">Hand-made pillows. </sentence><sentence id="2551">And they put it on my <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2552">The same story. </sentence><sentence id="2553">What do I do with two <span class="spatial object">pillows</span>? </sentence><sentence id="2554">If somebody sees it: "Where did you get it? </sentence><sentence id="2555">Who made it?" </sentence><sentence id="2556">So they will be in trouble. </sentence><sentence id="2557">I will be in trouble. </sentence><sentence id="2558">So one day, Hauptsturmftihrer Wirths came in. </sentence><sentence id="2559">And he left the <span class="dlf">door</span> open and his <span class="spatial object">car</span> was standing before. </sentence><sentence id="2560">I ran for one minute out. </sentence><sentence id="2561">I threw the <span class="spatial object">pillows</span> in, and I run back. </sentence><sentence id="2562">And I didn't say a word. </sentence><sentence id="2563">He didn't say a word for weeks. </sentence><sentence id="2564">But then he came and he asked me the 0 <span class="building">SS-Hauptstiirmftihrer Hans Aumeier</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2565">same question. " </sentence><sentence id="2566">What did you do? </sentence><sentence id="2567">Didn't you do what, now what this for that punishment for what you did?" </sentence><sentence id="2568">I said...I said the same thing to that, to him. </sentence><sentence id="2569">And he just said so much: "The <span class="spatial object">pillows</span> was very nice." </sentence><sentence id="2570">So much is said. </sentence><sentence id="2571">And I came to the <span class="building">barrack</span>, and the girls didn't believe I am alive. </sentence><sentence id="2572">And you know, I don't know if you know this is [<span class="building">tilam</span> (ph)], you know? </sentence><sentence id="2573">The girls was praying [tilam (ph)] for that that I survived; because they loved me so much and I helped them so much. </sentence><sentence id="2574">But that didn't help me for long. </sentence><sentence id="2575">Because one day Grese-- the "Angel of Death" they call her, but I had experience with her before--came to pick me up. </sentence><sentence id="2576">And "You are coming with me." </sentence><sentence id="2577">And I said, "Where I am going?" </sentence><sentence id="2578">She said, "You are just coming." </sentence><sentence id="2579">I didn't know where I am coming. </sentence><sentence id="2580">And I don't know...you know what's a <span class="building">bunker</span> is? </sentence><sentence id="2581">Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="2582">There was a <span class="interior space">bunker</span> under the <span class="env feature">earth</span> which was so big that four woman could stand next to each other like sardines. </sentence><sentence id="2583">My punishment was... The woman couldn't stand it that the men saved me again, so they wanted to punish me. </sentence><sentence id="2584">So I had the punishment: seven nights to stand there all night, then to be on the call-- the Zahlen Appell [NB: Census roll call]--and then punishment was to clean all the la...<span class="building">toilets</span> or <span class="spatial object">latrines</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2585">I wouldn't survive one day, because standing there and then the roll call for hours. </sentence><sentence id="2586">L..I was... You know, one minute I would be finished. </sentence><sentence id="2587">And now to clean all the <span class="interior space">toilets</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2588">But, you know, there was a certain um... You know, news travel. </sentence><sentence id="2589">And the men who was working in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, they found out while I got this punishment. </sentence><sentence id="2590">So they came to my rescue. </sentence><sentence id="2591">They said, "You lie down here, and we will do your work. </sentence><sentence id="2592">When SS man comes, then you will get up. </sentence><sentence id="2593">Pretend that you are working." </sentence><sentence id="2594">And that saved my life. </sentence><sentence id="2595">You see, this is what I mean, helping each other. </sentence><sentence id="2596">That was only the way that some, some--meaning from twenty thousand of us, a few hundred--survived. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2719">Q: At this point I want to pause, and we're going to change tapes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2721"> TECHNICAL CONVERSATION TAPE #3 TECHNICAL CONVERSATION </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2725">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2726">Weare on. </sentence><sentence id="2727">Would you tell me about...? </sentence><sentence id="2728">Tell us about Irma Grese. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2733">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="2734">I met Irma Grese in beginning of my life in <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2735">I mean, in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2736">From beginning...um it was...it must be August, September "42. </sentence><sentence id="2737">And I was a <span class="building">Stubendienst</span> -- a helper. </sentence><sentence id="2738">Not in my...stuben oldest, just like a little helper who went...carried the bread and the food. </sentence><sentence id="2739">And I went to um... and I needed always volunteers to that. </sentence><sentence id="2740">People who was working; and I asked them nicely, "Listen, I know it's very hard, because you're working hard. </sentence><sentence id="2741">But if we don't get the food, the bread, you won't have any. </sentence><sentence id="2742">And we can't...for so many, those few girls, they can't manage to... We've haven't got even time, because then it's the roll call and everything. </sentence><sentence id="2743">So, please come." </sentence><sentence id="2744">And I was talking to them on...where Grese was there, because she was in the...in the...where the bread was given out. </sentence><sentence id="2745">She was in charge as a SS woman. </sentence><sentence id="2746">She looked a chubby woman, young woman. </sentence><sentence id="2747">In my eyes, she was about eighteen, nineteen; with long blond pleats...plaits, chubby. </sentence><sentence id="2748">And she didn't even have the hat on. </sentence><sentence id="2749">And while I was talking, I was telling the girls, "Look girls, um I know it's very hard, but please do it. </sentence><sentence id="2750">And I will myself carry as much bread as you. </sentence><sentence id="2751">So let's do it nicely and quickly." </sentence><sentence id="2752">And while I was doing it every day, she called me and she said, "What's your name?" </sentence><sentence id="2753">I said, "Magda." </sentence><sentence id="2754">And she said, "I'm watching you, because you are talking to the people and you carry the bread. </sentence><sentence id="2755">You are different like the others. </sentence><sentence id="2756">You taking so much energy and time to...to encourage the people." </sentence><sentence id="2757">And I said, "I will do it to the last breath of my life. </sentence><sentence id="2758">If I can help, I do it." </sentence><sentence id="2759">And...and I said, "And what's your name?" </sentence><sentence id="2760">I forgot I am talking to the (laughter) SS woman. </sentence><sentence id="2761">And she said, "My name is Irma." </sentence><sentence id="2762">And I again said, "Nice to know you." </sentence><sentence id="2763">Then later, I said, "My goodness! </sentence><sentence id="2764">What are you, crazy? </sentence><sentence id="2765">You're talking to SS woman!" </sentence><sentence id="2766">But that did it, that I said to her. </sentence><sentence id="2767">And um so, for a while she was there and I was...and she, every time she was talking with me and asking me something. </sentence><sentence id="2768">And she pretended, that woman...you know, deceiving me. </sentence><sentence id="2769">She said that she didn't...part maybe was right. </sentence><sentence id="2770">She said, um, "I was um living in a small place, and suddenly they asked for volunteers. </sentence><sentence id="2771">But I didn't know where they are taking me. </sentence><sentence id="2772">So I volunteered, and here I am." </sentence><sentence id="2773">But later, I found out they first they took them to a place to brutalize them and prepare them to be brutal; and then she came. </sentence><sentence id="2774">But that I didn't know then. </sentence><sentence id="2775">Anyway, so we been in contact like that; and suddenly we lost touch about each other. </sentence><sentence id="2776">She went her way, and I went my way. </sentence><sentence id="2777">And later I found out that she was wanting to be somebody, suddenly. </sentence><sentence id="2778">And then one day I met her, and she was slimmed down. </sentence><sentence id="2779">She had her hair up and very nicely the cap on. </sentence><sentence id="2780">She had boots shining like glass, or silver or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="2781">And she had...in her boots, she had a whip and she had a belt with a pistol who was shining also like silver. </sentence><sentence id="2782">And she said, "Hello, Magda." </sentence><sentence id="2783">Nobody called me Magda, because I was for everybody number. </sentence><sentence id="2784">And I said, "Hello, Irma." </sentence><sentence id="2785">And I said, "Oh, but now you look dressed!" </sentence><sentence id="2786">And I said, "Shining like that, and like a real SS woman. </sentence><sentence id="2787">I hope I will never see you brutal like the others." </sentence><sentence id="2788">She didn't say anything. </sentence><sentence id="2789">She didn't say, "This is not your <span class="building">business</span>," or...or "How dare you." </sentence><sentence id="2790">She just listened and went away. </sentence><sentence id="2791">Later, I found out that since she is like she is, she's riding out on a horse and going out to the <span class="building">Kommandos</span> and with that whip she's whipping the girls. </sentence><sentence id="2792">And mostly she's whipping on the breast, because that is very sensitive part. </sentence><sentence id="2793">And often it breaks it. </sentence><sentence id="2794">And what is the end? </sentence><sentence id="2795">Death. </sentence><sentence id="2796">But I didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="2797">I found it out much later. </sentence><sentence id="2798">And then, what happened: the...1 was working in a <span class="building">office</span> [at] one stage. </sentence><sentence id="2799">I was so happy to work in the <span class="building">office</span>, not to have that responsibility and to see the...all the cruelty. </sentence><sentence id="2800">Because there I was working on the [<span class="spatial object">karteaustaschs</span> (ph)]. </sentence><sentence id="2801">You know, the Germans are punctuality plus! </sentence><sentence id="2802">And I learned the, the... I had anyway a nice writing as you saw; and now even I made it even nicer. </sentence><sentence id="2803">And I was happy. </sentence><sentence id="2804">But one day, I heard the news that the Hungarian arrivals are coming from <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> and from <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2805">And one day I was called up by the commander replacing the commander-in-charge. </sentence><sentence id="2806">And he...she said, "You will be the <span class="building">Lageraltest</span> in the new <span class="populated place">camp</span> where the arrivals are coming." </sentence><sentence id="2807">So I said, "Oh, I am so happy here in, in where I am." </sentence><sentence id="2808">And she laughed. </sentence><sentence id="2809">She had teeth standing out like that, you know. </sentence><sentence id="2810">She said, "Oh, ho, ho, ho." </sentence><sentence id="2811">She said, "Oh, you are happy here, are you?" </sentence><sentence id="2812">She said, "But you are taking that. </sentence><sentence id="2813">You will be in charge." </sentence><sentence id="2814">And I said, "I don't know how to be a <span class="building">Lager</span> oldest." </sentence><sentence id="2815">I said, "I never been one." </sentence><sentence id="2816">And she laughed with her teeth, and she said, "Where could you be? </sentence><sentence id="2817">There was never a <span class="populated place">camp</span>...where there was a <span class="populated place">camp</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2818">And the other reason was, I said because for the time being I heard that in this <span class="populated place">camp</span> are men on one side. </sentence><sentence id="2819">And I'm so afraid that I got involved... will get involved with some man for what is punishment there, and I don't want that. </sentence><sentence id="2820">She said, "About that, you don't have to worry. </sentence><sentence id="2821">We will watch you carefully." </sentence><sentence id="2822">Nothing helped me. </sentence><sentence id="2823">So...and there was the report um writer which I knew, and I approached her. </sentence><sentence id="2824">I said, "Please, [<span class="populated place">Gatka</span> (ph)]. </sentence><sentence id="2825">Don't let it happen. </sentence><sentence id="2826">I know how can you help all thousands and thousands people? </sentence><sentence id="2827">And when we really would, by any miracle survive, how many enemies will I have? " </sentence><sentence id="2828">Cause you can't help by the thousands. </sentence><sentence id="2829">Somebody...[, I didn't look nice or whatever." </sentence><sentence id="2830">So she said, "Look, this is not that the <span class="building">SS</span> wants you. </sentence><sentence id="2831">But the <span class="interior space">underground</span> wants you; because they know that you will try the best to save people, as many as you can. </sentence><sentence id="2832">And if there another woman comes there which is a sadist, she will have the pleasure to do it. </sentence><sentence id="2833">So there is no way. </sentence><sentence id="2834">They choose you. </sentence><sentence id="2835">The <span class="interior space">underground</span> choose you. </sentence><sentence id="2836">You have to take. </sentence><sentence id="2837">And it's up to you how you will manage." </sentence><sentence id="2838">What can I do? </sentence><sentence id="2839">So they took me to the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2840">And the Lagerkommandant, Kramer!"--which was a man of six foot six, with hands like that--he said, "Here you will be <span class="building">Lageraltest</span>.". </sentence><sentence id="2841">And I looked in. </sentence><sentence id="2842">There was empty <span class="building">barracks</span>, nothing in it. </sentence><sentence id="2843">Not <span class="spatial object">bed</span>, no straw sack, no blankets, nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2844">And I said...clapped my feet and announced my number, and I said, "Lagerfiihrer, please. </sentence><sentence id="2845">Here you want me to be, that next day or the Thursday you can call all the woman "Jewish swines." </sentence><sentence id="2846">Because they're...where can they...they will sleep on top of each other, and they probably won't be able to go to the <span class="spatial object">toilet</span> and they will make on each other!" </sentence><sentence id="2847">So I said, "Why don't you send them straight away to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="2848">And I said...and he said, "Why you worrying so much about the other people?Worry about yourself, that you take care of yourself!" </sentence><sentence id="2849">And I...but wonder of wonders...Now I tell you, I don't know who was talking from my mouth. </sentence><sentence id="2850">I said again, that ceremony...I said, "If you, in reverse, would be in charge and you will be a Lager oldest; and the prisoners " SS Hauptsturmfihrer Josef Kramer was Kommandant of <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span> from May 1944, when the Hungarian Jews began arriving, until December 1944, when he was transferred to KL Bergen- <span class="populated place">Belsen</span> by Rudolf Hess. </sentence><sentence id="2851"> would be your fellow Germans and you wouldn't help them, I would call you "Coward." </sentence><sentence id="2852">And I said it. </sentence><sentence id="2853">I said, "My goodness! </sentence><sentence id="2854">Magda, are you crazy? </sentence><sentence id="2855">Whom you talking? </sentence><sentence id="2856">This is the commander who whenever somebody he doesn't even like or who is just in his way, he grabs it by his neck, squeezes it a minute, throws them like a doll. </sentence><sentence id="2857">And he is killed. </sentence><sentence id="2858">And you telling him what is?" </sentence><sentence id="2859">But I stood straight, and I said, "Be strong, and don't move from this <span class="interior space">space</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2860">And he looked at me, and he saw I am not shaking. </sentence><sentence id="2861">I am not crying. </sentence><sentence id="2862">I am not begging. </sentence><sentence id="2863">He says, "You know what? </sentence><sentence id="2864">You are right. </sentence><sentence id="2865">Tomorrow you will have what you want." </sentence><sentence id="2866">So I said, "I want <span class="spatial object">beds</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2867">I want straw sacks. </sentence><sentence id="2868">I want blankets. </sentence><sentence id="2869">I want um a <span class="spatial object">utencils</span> to eat; and I want spoons." " </sentence><sentence id="2870">OK. </sentence><sentence id="2871">Have it." </sentence><sentence id="2872">And I said, "And I want some woman who...who will be in charge. </sentence><sentence id="2873">In every <span class="building">barrack</span> is thirty <span class="building">barracks</span>, and I want some thirty girls which I can have which I want." </sentence><sentence id="2874">He says, "Have them! </sentence><sentence id="2875">Just tell them which one you want, and have them." </sentence><sentence id="2876">So again, miracle [of] miracles, they thought--you know, the news traveled--that I am the protegee of Kramer. </sentence><sentence id="2877">But that's nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2878">Never mind. </sentence><sentence id="2879">I couldn't do...I couldn't just save everybody. </sentence><sentence id="2880">I can't... couldn't, but where I could. </sentence><sentence id="2881">I was running up and down from morning to evening. </sentence><sentence id="2882">Where I could, I explained, I begged. </sentence><sentence id="2883">L..I ...1 watched the...the...the girls in charge. </sentence><sentence id="2884">I said, "You try your best. </sentence><sentence id="2885">If not, I personally punish you." </sentence><sentence id="2886">And I did. </sentence><sentence id="2887">I came in; and I saw that the girls didn't take care that they should have the proper kind of food. </sentence><sentence id="2888">And they was a little bit [leger (ph)] on it. </sentence><sentence id="2889">So I called them to the front whereI__.And I said, "You are going..." There was water for in case there will be fire; so it was from that it would be taken, the water. " </sentence><sentence id="2890">Around that <span class="env feature">water</span>," I said, "you are going to jump. </sentence><sentence id="2891">Because you are here for helping, not for making yourself comfortable. </sentence><sentence id="2892">You saw me running from morning "til evening to the <span class="populated place">camp</span> <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2893">You saw my feet um swollen like that. </sentence><sentence id="2894">You look at my face, how it's swollen. </sentence><sentence id="2895">You I picked and choose, and I took you out from maybe you wouldn't be alive. </sentence><sentence id="2896">So you do your duty. </sentence><sentence id="2897">And now this was a punishment. </sentence><sentence id="2898">I know you are my friends, and I know you will be angry at me. </sentence><sentence id="2899">But you will remember, because it's still better like a SS man would come in and something is not in order." </sentence><sentence id="2900">So that was it. </sentence><sentence id="2901">But this why I said I was so strict on my own friends. </sentence><sentence id="2902">But one girl um who who was a...she could write poems, she got a paper and she wrote a long poem about me, to me. </sentence><sentence id="2903">That, you know, she appreciates that she knows what I am doing and it was wrong for them to be negligence, a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="2904">But, you know, persons is like that--if he can make himself the life easier, he is. </sentence><sentence id="2905">But not with me. </sentence><sentence id="2906">So one day Commander Kramer came... Because here was the <span class="populated place">women camp</span>, there was a <span class="dlf">road</span> and the next after the <span class="dlf">road</span> was the main <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2907">And often the woman husbands was in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2908">And they just arrived. </sentence><sentence id="2909">So they screamed over to each other. </sentence><sentence id="2910">Or sometimes the man, if he had a chance to get something extra, so he put it in a piece of paper um in in a <span class="env feature">rock</span> and he threw it over. </sentence><sentence id="2911">So...and he [NB: Kramer] found out that they are doing it. </sentence><sentence id="2912">So he put me in charge that I have to...Sunday when SS are not in, I have to watch it shouldn't happen. </sentence><sentence id="2913">So I have to watch next to the um <span class="dlf">fence</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2914">I have to walk up and down. </sentence><sentence id="2915">But naturally I said to the girls, "When I am up, down you can talk. </sentence><sentence id="2916">And...but watch if you hear some <span class="spatial object">automobile</span> or whatever coming, or SS man." </sentence><sentence id="2917">So the little <span class="spatial object">runners</span> which we have watch it. </sentence><sentence id="2918">One day Kramer came. </sentence><sentence id="2919">All the girls disappeared. </sentence><sentence id="2920">And he said, "What are you doing here?" </sentence><sentence id="2921">I told myself, "You know, you put here in charge." </sentence><sentence id="2922">So I said-- unbelievable--I said, "I am...I want to go to the <span class="building">theater</span>, and I am thinking what I am going to wear. </sentence><sentence id="2923">I haven't got a dress. </sentence><sentence id="2924">I haven't got soap. </sentence><sentence id="2925">I haven't got a <span class="spatial object">mirror</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2926">I haven't got perfume, and all those things which needed to the <span class="building">theater</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2927">That's what I am here standing and thinking about." </sentence><sentence id="2928">And you...would you believe? </sentence><sentence id="2929">And he said, "You are right! </sentence><sentence id="2930">Tomorrow morning, I am coming to pick you up. </sentence><sentence id="2931">And I take you there, and I get you all what you wanted." </sentence><sentence id="2932">And I came to the girls and I told them. </sentence><sentence id="2933">So, you know, the tragicomedy...they started to laugh. </sentence><sentence id="2934">"Magda, are you crazy?!" </sentence><sentence id="2935">I said, "What could I tell him? </sentence><sentence id="2936">Should I tell him I do the duty?" </sentence><sentence id="2937">And I thought...I said a very bad expression. </sentence><sentence id="2938">I said (laughter)...you know, and I said, "I am not going to satisfy that "I am doing what...what you told me to be here," because then I am a little crawling rat." </sentence><sentence id="2939">And I said, "No, I am not telling him. </sentence><sentence id="2940">I am telling him the impossible. </sentence><sentence id="2941">Tomorrow he will forget it, anyway," I said. </sentence><sentence id="2942">But you know, in the morning the runner came. </sentence><sentence id="2943">"Magda...<span class="building">Lageraltester</span>, to the front! </sentence><sentence id="2944"><span class="populated place">Lager</span> Commander Kramer wants you." </sentence><sentence id="2945">So L...I arrived there. </sentence><sentence id="2946">I announced myself. </sentence><sentence id="2947">He said, "So here 1am." </sentence><sentence id="2948">And I said, "But I need fifty people for this." " </sentence><sentence id="2949">Fifty people?" </sentence><sentence id="2950">And I said, "Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2951">Fifty people or nothing." </sentence><sentence id="2952">So he said, "Have them!" </sentence><sentence id="2953">So quickly I said to the runner, "Bring the fifty people in the fifth...by the five, five, five..." Whichever, whoever was the first fifty; and we went to the place that all the clothing was done. </sentence><sentence id="2954">I never been there before. </sentence><sentence id="2955">I was standing outside. </sentence><sentence id="2956">And I left the message through that they should prepare little...um it looked like... How could I say? </sentence><sentence id="2957">Like a big <span class="spatial object">box</span>, and in the front was two sticks and here through; and you could um carry it like...you could wheel it. </sentence><sentence id="2958">It was um... How could I say? </sentence><sentence id="2959">You know what I mean? </sentence><sentence id="2960">So I said, "Get me five of those <span class="spatial object">trolleys</span>, or whatever you call it. </sentence><sentence id="2961">And give the message all over they should put there soaps, towels, medicines, blankets, clothings, sweaters. </sentence><sentence id="2962">But pile it up to the full capacity." </sentence><sentence id="2963">And that's why I needed fifty; because to every one, ten woman would be able to to wheel it. </sentence><sentence id="2964">Alright. </sentence><sentence id="2965">It was all prepared. </sentence><sentence id="2966">Suddenly Kramer came, and you know he brought me antique little um...like in on the <span class="interior space">boudoir</span> you have it. </sentence><sentence id="2967">It is a <span class="spatial object">mirror</span> coming here and back; and here two...two <span class="spatial object">drawers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2968">And he showed me. " </sentence><sentence id="2969">Here you have the soap, the perfume, the lipstick, the comb, the brush. </sentence><sentence id="2970">Everything." </sentence><sentence id="2971">And on his hand, he had a most beautiful silk dress. </sentence><sentence id="2972">"And here is the silk dress. </sentence><sentence id="2973">Do you like it? </sentence><sentence id="2974">So now you have everything, and you can go to the <span class="building">theater</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2975">Are you satisfied?" </sentence><sentence id="2976">I said, "Very much so." </sentence><sentence id="2977">And he pretended not to see the fifty woman. </sentence><sentence id="2978">And he...I said, "I take it." </sentence><sentence id="2979">He said, "No, I take it. </sentence><sentence id="2980">I told you I bring you, so I take you "til your <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2981">And then I give it to over to you." </sentence><sentence id="2982">And he came "til the <span class="dlf">door</span>, "til the the place of the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2983">And then he said to...they're in charge, "Let the woman through, the fifty. </sentence><sentence id="2984">And when they are ready let them...the empty, and one with them is going to deliver those back. </sentence><sentence id="2985">And here now you can go to the <span class="building">theater</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2986">So quickly we wheeled that in in one of the <span class="building">barrack</span> where I've been. </sentence><sentence id="2987">It was a big <span class="interior space">foyer</span> there empty, and I said, "Unload quickly the things, and um select the soaps." </sentence><sentence id="2988">And all...all the girls L..I took which was there, the little runners, "Come on, quick. </sentence><sentence id="2989">Put the soaps here, the sweaters there, and then go outside. </sentence><sentence id="2990">Don't say anything, but put the people in the rows, always by the fifty. </sentence><sentence id="2991">Bring them in and discharge them, this...give everybody." </sentence><sentence id="2992">And I said, "Everyone has to save it on the <span class="spatial object">bed</span> who with him. </sentence><sentence id="2993">The soap, the <span class="spatial object">towel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2994">One gets the <span class="spatial object">towel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2995">One gets the soap. </sentence><sentence id="2996">One gets the..." You know, and like that; "til we emptied everything. </sentence><sentence id="2997">And nobody should know about that. </sentence><sentence id="2998">It had to be done very quickly and very quietly. </sentence><sentence id="2999">No SS man saw it. </sentence><sentence id="3000">This was the second thing. </sentence><sentence id="3001">The third thing what he did: one day I should come to the front. </sentence><sentence id="3002">The Lagerkommandant is there with his <span class="spatial object">black car</span>, and he wants to discuss certain things with me. </sentence><sentence id="3003">So I come there. </sentence><sentence id="3004"><span class="building">Grese</span> is...she became the Lagerfithrer of our <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3005">The other side is <span class="populated place">Mengele</span>; and here in the middle with the <span class="spatial object">car</span> is Kramer. </sentence><sentence id="3006">And he says, "<span class="building">Lageraltester</span>, come and sit in the <span class="spatial object">car</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3007">I want to discuss with you some matters." </sentence><sentence id="3008">And I said, "But um Kommandant, please. </sentence><sentence id="3009">I am just a bloody Jewess. </sentence><sentence id="3010">Here is Dr. Mengele. </sentence><sentence id="3011">Take him in the <span class="spatial object">car</span>." " </sentence><sentence id="3012">Let him bloody walk. </sentence><sentence id="3013">And you come and sit in the <span class="spatial object">car</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3014">Grese heard that. </sentence><sentence id="3015">She didn't believe her eyes. </sentence><sentence id="3016">But you know, my status symbol went high; because she thought who knows what I have with the <span class="spatial object">Kramer</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3017">But I still said, "No, I better don't sit in. </sentence><sentence id="3018">It wouldn't look nice." </sentence><sentence id="3019">But, you know, this was a old <span class="spatial object">car</span> which outside it had like a stand on it. </sentence><sentence id="3020">I don't know if that <span class="spatial object">cars</span> are still in. </sentence><sentence id="3021">I said, "I better stand on it outside." </sentence><sentence id="3022">And I forgot one thing. </sentence><sentence id="3023">I forgot that I had the <span class="spatial object">ring</span> which the War...<span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> uprising people made. </sentence><sentence id="3024">And they brought it in, in some miracle way. </sentence><sentence id="3025">And when they heard about me, how I am to the people, they donated me. </sentence><sentence id="3026">And that was also not a easy thing to bring in, and I just got the <span class="spatial object">ring</span> on. </sentence><sentence id="3027">So...and while I was, while I was standing I leaned with my hand on the <span class="spatial object">car</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3028">And he said, "What! </sentence><sentence id="3029">You are wearing a ring of the <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> Ghetto uprising before me?!" </sentence><sentence id="3030">And he grabbed a pistol. " </sentence><sentence id="3031">I am going to shoot your hand with the ring up!" </sentence><sentence id="3032">And I said, "I am in your charge. </sentence><sentence id="3033">Whatever you want, you can do. </sentence><sentence id="3034">I am just a bloody Jewess." </sentence><sentence id="3035">He looks at me and said, "Ah!" </sentence><sentence id="3036">He said, "Ah, get away!" </sentence><sentence id="3037">And he put the <span class="spatial object">revolver</span> back. </sentence><sentence id="3038">And all that, Grese saw. </sentence><sentence id="3039">So, you know, these are the unbelievable believable thing. </sentence><sentence id="3040">So now about Grese: like I told you, she became <span class="building">Lagerfiihrerin</span> in our <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3041">And our contact was still the old contact. </sentence><sentence id="3042">When I became there in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, I gathered all the doctors from the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, they should come to me. </sentence><sentence id="3043">And I said to..., "Now Iam going to divide you. </sentence><sentence id="3044">In every <span class="building">barrack</span> will be how many you are, two or three." </sentence><sentence id="3045">I can't remember, but minimum two. " </sentence><sentence id="3046">And you are watching, and you are going to help those people. </sentence><sentence id="3047">I am going to try to get some medicines, whatever. </sentence><sentence id="3048">We can't do miracles, but whatever. </sentence><sentence id="3049">But you watch; and especially watch the mostly for an epidemic." </sentence><sentence id="3050">And they said, "And what we are going to do?" </sentence><sentence id="3051">So I said, "What I am afraid is scarlet fever. </sentence><sentence id="3052">And what you doing with them, straight away came...come to me and tell me about it. </sentence><sentence id="3053">And that person who has that, put in the..." Back of <span class="building">barracks</span> was a <span class="interior space">room</span> which supposed to be a <span class="interior space">washroom</span>, but they didn't finish it. " </sentence><sentence id="3054">So that will be the quarantine." </sentence><sentence id="3055">So, suddenly, all the doctors came that "We found two," "We found three." " </sentence><sentence id="3056">But now how to...we are to do with the counting?," </sentence><sentence id="3057">asked me the girls. </sentence><sentence id="3058">So I said, "Leave it to me." </sentence><sentence id="3059">So it was summer...hot. </sentence><sentence id="3060">Hot!The sun was incredible shining, you know? </sentence><sentence id="3061">Like I said, if it was as Satan...Satan was there in this place, in...in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3062">So I approached <span class="populated place">Grese</span>; and I said, "Irma, look. </sentence><sentence id="3063">Why should you run around in this hot weather and do the counting? </sentence><sentence id="3064">I am going to do the counting for you, and you be comfortable. </sentence><sentence id="3065">Sit down here in this <span class="interior space">room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3066">And the report writer, and I will announce her and she will count it up. </sentence><sentence id="3067">And when it's all right, then you..." "You are right." </sentence><sentence id="3068">But she said, "And what will do the Lagerkommandant in from the <span class="populated place">camp</span> to <span class="populated place">mine camp</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="3069">And I said, "Are you <span class="populated place">Lager</span> um Fiihrer of this <span class="populated place">camp</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="3070">She said, "Yeah." " </sentence><sentence id="3071">Then you do what pleases you the best. </sentence><sentence id="3072">And she has nothing to say in your <span class="populated place">camp</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3073">And she sat down. </sentence><sentence id="3074">And I sent the runners down, and they put the legs down on the <span class="spatial object">bed</span>, you know? </sentence><sentence id="3075">So it was easy to count. </sentence><sentence id="3076">And they counted, you know, like this. </sentence><sentence id="3077">They didn't go out, because then it would be missing. </sentence><sentence id="3078">So nobody knew about it. </sentence><sentence id="3079">And nobody should know about it. </sentence><sentence id="3080">It was kept secretly. </sentence><sentence id="3081">And so I did the counting for six weeks, "til the scarlet fever is over. </sentence><sentence id="3082">The worst part is six weeks. </sentence><sentence id="3083">I did the counting, and Grese agreed with me. </sentence><sentence id="3084">And it was always the counting right, so she didn't have any excuse. </sentence><sentence id="3085">And that we saved thirty thousand people. </sentence><sentence id="3086">Why I am saying that, because there was a little <span class="populated place">camp</span> across or across the <span class="dlf">road</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3087">They called that <span class="populated place">camp</span> "<span class="country">Mexico</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3088">It was B...zwei...drei, three. " </sentence><sentence id="3089">2 And there the scarlet broke out, and there wasn't so prepared. </sentence><sentence id="3090">And eight thousand five hundred--healthy or not healthy--all went to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3091">So that's what it is what I am saying. </sentence><sentence id="3092">That you could be in function which was not very pleasant--because always a Damocles [NB: <span class="spatial object">Sword of Damocles</span>] was hanging over your head--but you had the chance to save people. </sentence><sentence id="3093">I saved the people some other way, too. </sentence><sentence id="3094">Mengele came to select and often I had to be present. </sentence><sentence id="3095">And he did it in the most unbelievable way. </sentence><sentence id="3096">He was whistling the Donau Waltz. </sentence><sentence id="3097">And he said (humming a <span class="interior space">bar</span> of the Blue Danube Waltz), that means that went to the left. ( </sentence><sentence id="3098">Humming the subsequent <span class="dlf">bar</span> of the Blue Danube Waltz), was to the right. ( </sentence><sentence id="3099">Humming from Blue Danube Waltz) And that was left, right, left, right--healthy, sick, that's how it came. </sentence><sentence id="3100">He didn't touch anybody. </sentence><sentence id="3101">He didn't! </sentence><sentence id="3102">But he just pushed them to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span> good or bad. </sentence><sentence id="3103">So what happened: when he finished um like the selecting and he went away, so I run to the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3104">And I don't know, I couldn't...I couldn't steal them all. </sentence><sentence id="3105">But I just came like...like I would be in charge of it, and I cut a certain part. </sentence><sentence id="3106">And I said, "Turn backwards, and with me march." </sentence><sentence id="3107">Nobody knew. </sentence><sentence id="3108">Nobody knew. </sentence><sentence id="3109">And I saved that woman. </sentence><sentence id="3110">Sometimes it was twenty. </sentence><sentence id="3111">Sometimes fifty. </sentence><sentence id="3112">Sometimes hundred. </sentence><sentence id="3113">Sometimes two hundred. </sentence><sentence id="3114">And back to life. </sentence><sentence id="3115">How long, I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="3116">But the most um thing with Grese was, that like I told you, before me she was good as gold. </sentence><sentence id="3117">So much so that even she introduced me her boyfriend. </sentence><sentence id="3118">She had the boyfriends galore. </sentence><sentence id="3119">She had the boyfriends, every day somewhere else. </sentence><sentence id="3120">Matter of fact, to point out, one day she came and she said, "Magda, I have in the main <span class="populated place">camp</span> a man. </sentence><sentence id="3121">He's a prisoner, and I fall in love with him. </sentence><sentence id="3122">And I would love to visit him." </sentence><sentence id="3123">So I said, "Now, why don't you? </sentence><sentence id="3124">You are in charge. </sentence><sentence id="3125">Go to visit him." </sentence><sentence id="3126">She said, "No, that wouldn't look nice. </sentence><sentence id="3127">Because what I am doing there?" </sentence><sentence id="3128">So she said, "But you come with me." </sentence><sentence id="3129">I said, "I?" </sentence><sentence id="3130">I said, "Why?" " </sentence><sentence id="3131">Because then I make it official. </sentence><sentence id="3132">You are coming. </sentence><sentence id="3133">We have some...something to finish up. </sentence><sentence id="3134">And I put you there in the un like in the <span class="spatial object">schreibstube</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3135">In the... where the papers are done. " </sentence><sentence id="3136">You will be waiting there for me, so they think you have some... Nobody will check." </sentence><sentence id="3137">So I said to myself, "Oh, you give me there (ph)] occasions!" </sentence><sentence id="3138">So I sent right away my <span class="spatial object">runners</span>; and I said, "Woman who has husbands in the other <span class="populated place">camp</span>, write quickly. </sentence><sentence id="3139">We will organize some paper and pencils. </sentence><sentence id="3140">Write quickly a few words and give it to me; because I am going, say two o'clock or three o'clock, and I take it with me." </sentence><sentence id="3141">So I took the letters and I been there. </sentence><sentence id="3142">And I asked the man in charge there who was the writer... I said, "Look, you have the number of the <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3143">Please do me a favor. </sentence><sentence id="3144">When they catch you, Iam. </sentence><sentence id="3145">But they won't probably ask you, because you just going like on official business. </sentence><sentence id="3146">Take it to them. </sentence><sentence id="3147">It's a letter from their wife, and if they...Take paper with you and pencil. </sentence><sentence id="3148">They just have to write one or two words, because we haven't got more time." </sentence><sentence id="3149">And so I was a delivery man. </sentence><sentence id="3150">A <span class="building">postman</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3151">Just because she had that fantasy on a certain man. </sentence><sentence id="3152">So I show you that unbelievable. </sentence><sentence id="3153">She needed me, I should go with her. </sentence><sentence id="3154">So it was for a while I did it. </sentence><sentence id="3155">And she even introduced me another boyfriend, what I think about him. </sentence><sentence id="3156">If I agree with him. </sentence><sentence id="3157">She had every day another one. </sentence><sentence id="3158">I don't know why she did it. </sentence><sentence id="3159">But she asked me, "What you think?" </sentence><sentence id="3160">And he was a good looker--a tall, broad- " <span class="building">Camp B3</span> was part of the <span class="building">Birkenau complex</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3161">The term "<span class="country">Mexico</span>" was coined in the Spring of 1944 because the prisoners assigned there wrapped themselves in blankets. </sentence><sentence id="3162"> <span class="dlf">shoulder</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3163">And he didn't look like a cruel man to me; but um yet you never know. </sentence><sentence id="3164">So things like that she did. </sentence><sentence id="3165">But one day she was in <span class="populated place">camp</span>, and suddenly the words was coming, the runners: "Magda, please! </sentence><sentence id="3166">Come quickly! </sentence><sentence id="3167">Quickly! </sentence><sentence id="3168">Grese got...Grese got...Grese got crazy." " </sentence><sentence id="3169">What is she doing?" </sentence><sentence id="3170">She's...with the whip, she's whipping the woman through the breast. </sentence><sentence id="3171">And it's opened all the breast, and it's blood running and the woman are crying. </sentence><sentence id="3172">Come quickly!" </sentence><sentence id="3173">So I said, "Oh, my goodness! </sentence><sentence id="3174">That vicious, vicious, vicious witch! </sentence><sentence id="3175">She had to do it when I am turned away?!" </sentence><sentence id="3176">So I came there, and I saw. </sentence><sentence id="3177">And I said, "Now you can be proud of yourself! </sentence><sentence id="3178">What did you do? </sentence><sentence id="3179">You know what you did? </sentence><sentence id="3180">Imagine somebody would do that to you!" </sentence><sentence id="3181">And I said, "And if I don't get quick help for them, tomorrow they are going...or in an hour in <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3182">Because they will get infected." </sentence><sentence id="3183">So I quickly sent some to the <span class="building">Revier</span>, and they should at least give them First Aid. </sentence><sentence id="3184">And she lifted the whip on me. </sentence><sentence id="3185">So I said, "Go ahead! </sentence><sentence id="3186">Whip me! </sentence><sentence id="3187">You like to do it. </sentence><sentence id="3188">You like to do it for woman, especially on the...on the <span class="spatial object">bust</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3189">Do it to me!" </sentence><sentence id="3190">She looked at me, that I am standing there. </sentence><sentence id="3191">She put the whip down; and I said, "I am offended!" </sentence><sentence id="3192">And I walked away. </sentence><sentence id="3193">Would you believe it? </sentence><sentence id="3194">I didn't believe it myself. </sentence><sentence id="3195">And half an hour later, she came. </sentence><sentence id="3196">And I pretended that I am offended still. </sentence><sentence id="3197">And she said, "Forgive me." </sentence><sentence id="3198">She said, "Forgive me." </sentence><sentence id="3199">And the girls heard that. </sentence><sentence id="3200">She said, "Magda, I don't know, what you have a sypo...hypnotic um power over her or something?" </sentence><sentence id="3201">She [NB: I] said, "I don't want you to see it once more again, what you did before." </sentence><sentence id="3202">I didn't. </sentence><sentence id="3203">She did it somewhere else, but not before me. </sentence><sentence id="3204">Imagine. </sentence><sentence id="3205">Imagine. </sentence><sentence id="3206">So this so far I can tell you, she was the worse sadist ever been; and she wanted to be in very high. </sentence><sentence id="3207">You know, that how good she is, how brutal she over does all everybody. </sentence><sentence id="3208">And she looked million dollars, because she was very pretty. </sentence><sentence id="3209">And especially now, being always dressed--everyday immaculate shirts. </sentence><sentence id="3210">A matter of fact, a cousin of mine was...I put her in charge to work to wash her clothes, because in this way she was saved and she helped her. </sentence><sentence id="3211">And everybody was happy. </sentence><sentence id="3212">So every day, she was washing and ironing her shirts. </sentence><sentence id="3213">So she was starched collar and beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="3214">But um...but then people said what she can do, she was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="3215">She was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="3216">But um that's how we existed together. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3709">Q: Did you know anything about Irma Grese's lesbianism? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3711">A: I... knew. </sentence><sentence id="3712">I knew. </sentence><sentence id="3713">I knew about her lesbianism, because she wanted approach some of the girls in the...in our <span class="populated place">camp</span> too. </sentence><sentence id="3714">But I, I heard about it. </sentence><sentence id="3715">So I said, "You can cleverly avoid it, because she has plenty other German woman and other woman. </sentence><sentence id="3716">But why should she use a Jewish woman to..." And especially she liked dark-haired woman. </sentence><sentence id="3717">She approach; and she told me that Grese came and she told her. </sentence><sentence id="3718">But, you know, you can um you can say it in such a way it's too obvious. </sentence><sentence id="3719">But I said, "You be very diplomatic about it, not to offend her much. </sentence><sentence id="3720">But you just say that you don't know. </sentence><sentence id="3721">Because you don't know that, because we don't know. </sentence><sentence id="3722">We never heard about it. " </sentence><sentence id="3723">And there many others who'd be willing, because you are so beautiful." </sentence><sentence id="3724">And so I know...I knew about it. </sentence><sentence id="3725">But um luckily she didn't try with me; and like I told you, I warned the girls because I heard she is. </sentence><sentence id="3726">She was having affairs one after the other, and even prisoner. </sentence><sentence id="3727">It didn't matter. </sentence><sentence id="3728">And one I was there...(laughter) That was a funny part. </sentence><sentence id="3729">When we been in the <span class="dlf">experimental block</span>, from some...from no reason whatsoever-- because she wasn't in charge of that--she came and she said, "Magda, came with me." </sentence><sentence id="3730">I said, "Why?" " </sentence><sentence id="3731">Because I like a man in this...I know in <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3732">And um I want to see him." </sentence><sentence id="3733">But you know what um the coincidence is and the irony is, when they delivered the food... I must say something. </sentence><sentence id="3734">I managed from <span class="building">Hauptsturmfiihrer Wirths</span> to ask that the girls had all day locked in, and they can go out and either to collect herbs or collect flowers and be a little bit on the fresh air. </sentence><sentence id="3735">And he said, "By all means." </sentence><sentence id="3736">You know? </sentence><sentence id="3737">And so the girls went out, and a herbalist came and they collected herbs. </sentence><sentence id="3738">And also they...also they always brought some flowers. </sentence><sentence id="3739">And they been an hour or so outside in the fresh <span class="env feature">air</span>; and the food, when they delivered, the men--because they saw the girls out, so everybody picked one--and they... In the <span class="spatial object">kettle</span>, when they lift it up between the food, they put a little either packets of some special food, or just a letter or a little present. </sentence><sentence id="3740">And so a man send me letter on little <span class="spatial object">parcel</span>, and to...directed to me. </sentence><sentence id="3741">And this is the man she picked (laughter) for liking. </sentence><sentence id="3742">He wrote me love letters which was... Yeah, love letters! </sentence><sentence id="3743">He saw me just walking by. </sentence><sentence id="3744">I didn't...I didn't even see him. </sentence><sentence id="3745">He saw me. </sentence><sentence id="3746">But then I found out that who he is, because signed the name and we found out. </sentence><sentence id="3747">And one day, she said, "I want to go to this and this." </sentence><sentence id="3748">And now we faced each other with this man who was writing me those love letters. </sentence><sentence id="3749">And she said, "You wait here, Magda. </sentence><sentence id="3750">I am going with him. </sentence><sentence id="3751">And I will try if I can... You wait here outside." </sentence><sentence id="3752">She was waiting... was waiting outside, and... But nothing came out of it. </sentence><sentence id="3753">I don't know how he got out of it; because he...he was um he was a Polish man, but he supposed to be um released. </sentence><sentence id="3754">So maybe that's why he, he um... I don't know how or what, "cause I didn't um go in detail. </sentence><sentence id="3755">But um when she came out; and then in the next letter, he wrote me that she wanted him...to go with him. </sentence><sentence id="3756">But he... (laughter) he just didn't feel for her nothing, so... So he just wrote me. </sentence><sentence id="3757">I, I don't know if they went; probably they went. </sentence><sentence id="3758">I don't...but what, what that made difference? </sentence><sentence id="3759">He was...he writes me. </sentence><sentence id="3760">Alright, I took his word. </sentence><sentence id="3761">But I took with reserve his word, because he just wrote me letters. </sentence><sentence id="3762">So never he mentioned anyway. </sentence><sentence id="3763">So I tell you those... those things, you see, incredible. </sentence><sentence id="3764">Unbelievable. </sentence><sentence id="3765">This was <span class="populated place">Grese</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3766">This was <span class="populated place">Grese</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3767">She could talk to me like...like a friend; and the next minute she was a devil. </sentence><sentence id="3768">That...that's what she was. </sentence><sentence id="3769">A real devil. </sentence><sentence id="3770">A sadistic devil. </sentence><sentence id="3771">But she was so pretty, you know?That's why they called her "Angel of Death." </sentence><sentence id="3772">That's about <span class="populated place">Grese</span>; because | think that covers it, more or less. </sentence><sentence id="3773">Now... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3839">Q: (Cough) </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3841">A: I want to tell you about a French woman, because that has also something to do with the <span class="dlf">experimental block</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3842">One day, arrival of um... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3845">Q: I just want to make time clear. </sentence><sentence id="3846">We're now going back to when you were in the <span class="dlf">experimental block</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3849">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="3850">No. </sentence><sentence id="3851">I been in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3855">Q: We're still in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3857">A: I am in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>, and I am going to the "Revier"--so-called <span class="building">Hospital</span>--with some woman to get some medication. </sentence><sentence id="3858">Because we didn't dare to leave them here...there for long, because soon as the "Revier" was filled, they went over to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3859">So we are there, and suddenly we heard woman singing the Marseillaise. </sentence><sentence id="3860">And every...after two woman a police, an SS man with the... How you call it? </sentence><sentence id="3861">I forget. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3868">Q: With a rifle. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3870">A: With a rifle. </sentence><sentence id="3871">And the whole <span class="populated place">camp</span> had to turn to the face away from them, so not to get in touch with them or they were afraid we will make a revolution. </sentence><sentence id="3872">Ho, ho, ho. </sentence><sentence id="3873">But this is...suddenly the...the girl who was in charge, the report um writer, she was looking for me. </sentence><sentence id="3874">"Magda, Magda! </sentence><sentence id="3875">Where are you? </sentence><sentence id="3876">I need you." </sentence><sentence id="3877">I said, "Why you need me?" " </sentence><sentence id="3878">I want you to take those French woman over. </sentence><sentence id="3879">You will be in charge." </sentence><sentence id="3880">I said, "Oh, my goodness, leave me alone! </sentence><sentence id="3881">I am now in so hidden. </sentence><sentence id="3882">I want to have a little peace. </sentence><sentence id="3883">But what you want?" " </sentence><sentence id="3884">They are French woman. </sentence><sentence id="3885">They are all politisch. </sentence><sentence id="3886">They are writers. </sentence><sentence id="3887">They are um <span class="building">doctors</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3888">They are nurses. </sentence><sentence id="3889">They are professionals. </sentence><sentence id="3890">They are... they all have red triangle, because they are politisch. </sentence><sentence id="3891">You want them to to get somebody who won't be able to handle them, and they should die or or take them to the <span class="interior space">chambers</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="3892">So she said, "You take them." </sentence><sentence id="3893">But I said, "I don't know French." </sentence><sentence id="3894">You know, excuse. </sentence><sentence id="3895">She said, "Oh, my God, you don't know French!You know "essayez-vous," or a few words. ( </sentence><sentence id="3896">Laughter) I know that you went to <span class="building">gymnasium</span>, so what you telling me? </sentence><sentence id="3897">And the rest, I leave it to you." </sentence><sentence id="3898">Anyway, nothing helped. </sentence><sentence id="3899">I went in charge. </sentence><sentence id="3900">First thing, I said, "Who is speaking German here?" </sentence><sentence id="3901">So it was <span class="building">Maria Elise</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3902">She was a journalist, and she spoke German. </sentence><sentence id="3903">And I explained to her I didn't volunteer for that, and I don't want that position. " </sentence><sentence id="3904">And it's not a pleasure. </sentence><sentence id="3905">And the whole life here is not a pleasure. </sentence><sentence id="3906">But I am going to try to make your life as easy as possible, with your help. </sentence><sentence id="3907">We have to communicate. </sentence><sentence id="3908">We have to manage to help each other, because typhus is raving. </sentence><sentence id="3909">Um flies...lice are there. </sentence><sentence id="3910">Everything. </sentence><sentence id="3911">Try...um take the hygienic as possible, with all the little possibility as it is." </sentence><sentence id="3912">Because I...for example, when I didn't... couldn't wash. </sentence><sentence id="3913">So at night when the <span class="spatial object">kettles</span> from the tea was empty, so I emptied the left-overs from all the <span class="spatial object">kettles</span> and poured for that what was there. </sentence><sentence id="3914">From that I washed myself. </sentence><sentence id="3915">Somehow, I had to wash myself. </sentence><sentence id="3916">Because I knew how important is. </sentence><sentence id="3917">And wet. </sentence><sentence id="3918">Naturally, I didn't have a towel, too.(Laughter) Anyway, so I told...I told her everything, to explain to them. </sentence><sentence id="3919">When is the roll call, then roll call. </sentence><sentence id="3920">When is to take food, then is taking the food. </sentence><sentence id="3921">Not to hesitate, because then they make life harder and I don't want to scream at them. </sentence><sentence id="3922">I don't want to be cruel to them. </sentence><sentence id="3923">And so they have to help me. </sentence><sentence id="3924">So they did. </sentence><sentence id="3925">What I did the first day, I said to them, "Tomorrow I am going to wake you up a little bit earlier because we are going to do exercises, because I believe that in healthy body is a healthy spirit. </sentence><sentence id="3926">And the moral [NB: morale] is very important." </sentence><sentence id="3927">And I got up with them. </sentence><sentence id="3928">And the rest said "Magda, that crazy Madga! </sentence><sentence id="3929">She thought that...(laughter) She's doing exercises. </sentence><sentence id="3930">She's getting up earlier. </sentence><sentence id="3931">She could be in <span class="spatial object">bed</span> a half an hour!" </sentence><sentence id="3932">So I said, "Never mind. </sentence><sentence id="3933">Never mind. </sentence><sentence id="3934">Let me be crazy," I said. " </sentence><sentence id="3935">I'm doing it." </sentence><sentence id="3936">So...and the girls was very appreciative. </sentence><sentence id="3937">And so much so that...that Maria Elise, she said ...after a while she said, "Tell me, Magda. </sentence><sentence id="3938">How could you survive being so human under such unhuman circumstances? </sentence><sentence id="3939">I don't believe I could. </sentence><sentence id="3940">I don't believe I could." </sentence><sentence id="3941">So anyway, now I just give you a little backwards, forwards. </sentence><sentence id="3942">After fifty years I found out her name is Maria Elise Cohen, and I found out her address. </sentence><sentence id="3943">And before I went away, I wrote her a letter. </sentence><sentence id="3944">Because, you see, it works and I have to run backwards and forwards. </sentence><sentence id="3945">It...it takes two to tango. </sentence><sentence id="3946">It's always working. </sentence><sentence id="3947">You help somebody, it gets back to you. </sentence><sentence id="3948">But I come back to that later. </sentence><sentence id="3949">Just remind me; because I want to tell you when I was in the <span class="building">Barrack 10</span>, the <span class="dlf">experimental block</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3950">So one of the girl...woman, of the French woman, was chosen to be a doctor for these experiments. </sentence><sentence id="3951">But she was the only one who refused to do unnecessary operations. </sentence><sentence id="3952">And she said...you know, like when we promise so to be a doctor, so we are helping the others. </sentence><sentence id="3953">And she's not going to do any operation which makes wrong. </sentence><sentence id="3954">And not anesthetic...without anesthetic. </sentence><sentence id="3955">If she can repair something which a woman has, that she do. </sentence><sentence id="3956">But not to make terrible things what they do. </sentence><sentence id="3957">So they said, "And you know what you are getting for it?" " </sentence><sentence id="3958">Whatever I getting, I am taking it." </sentence><sentence id="3959">So they said, "All right. </sentence><sentence id="3960">Now you are going to be placed in the <span class="interior space">Straf bunker</span>... kommando." </sentence><sentence id="3961">Which means a "punishment kommando." </sentence><sentence id="3962">But her being a doctor--tall and slim--she wouldn't survive a day. </sentence><sentence id="3963">Because those sadists would just make a toy out of her, because she was so clumsy probably in this work what she has to do there. </sentence><sentence id="3964">So I got in touch--and it was always ways, unbelievable ways--to this woman who was in charge of report writer. </sentence><sentence id="3965">And I said, "Look, this woman, Doctor Adelaide Hautval, is on the way to go to this <span class="building">Kommando</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3966">Please transfer her quickly somewhere else, because she won't survive." </sentence><sentence id="3967">So she transferred her...on the way coming, she transferred her to that <span class="building">Revier</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3968">But the next day went a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> with French woman to <span class="populated place">Ravensbriick</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3969">So she added her quickly so nobody knew about her existence. </sentence><sentence id="3970">I didn't know about her existence for many years. </sentence><sentence id="3971">Once I been in <span class="country">Israel</span>, and there is a <span class="env feature">forest</span> on honor of people. </sentence><sentence id="3972">And I said to my husband, "Let me have a look there at <span class="env feature">trees</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3973">He said, "There are hundreds of <span class="env feature">trees</span>! </sentence><sentence id="3974">What are you going to look for?" </sentence><sentence id="3975">I said, "Never mind. </sentence><sentence id="3976">Just let me for one minute." </sentence><sentence id="3977">Because, you know, men are sometimes so impatient. </sentence><sentence id="3978">And the first <span class="env feature">tree</span> I see is <span class="building">Dr. Adelaide Hautval</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3979">The <span class="env feature">tree</span> is donated from <span class="country">France</span> on her honor. </sentence><sentence id="3980">I said, "Bela, Bela, come quickly! </sentence><sentence id="3981">Make a picture here." </sentence><sentence id="3982">And he made a picture of me, and there was <span class="building">Adelaide Hautval</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3983">So meantime, I got her address from Dr. Lore Shelley. </sentence><sentence id="3984">I don't know if you heard about her; because she wanted to know our <span class="dlf">experimental block</span> and I helped her. </sentence><sentence id="3985">And so I asked her, "Do you by any chance know the address?" </sentence><sentence id="3986">So she knew. </sentence><sentence id="3987">So I wrote Adelaide Hautval, and I sent her this picture. </sentence><sentence id="3988">And she was very pleased with that picture. </sentence><sentence id="3989">And she said that "I was surprised, because you looked so well. </sentence><sentence id="3990">So I wish you everything the best in the future." </sentence><sentence id="3991">And so...so we been in contact with each other, and unfortunately she died. </sentence><sentence id="3992">But the family of hers send me the announcement of her death, and so I sent my sympathy. </sentence><sentence id="3993">So you know, it's going backwards and forwards. </sentence><sentence id="3994">It's...somehow it's entwined. </sentence><sentence id="3995">And now if you want to know further on, I was there in the...in the <span class="dlf">Lager C</span>;"? </sentence><sentence id="3996">and some women went on <span class="spatial object">transport</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3997">They was chosen people who had good hands, in certain <span class="building">factories</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3998">Who had good eyes, I had to bring always to the front because some specialists from this <span class="building">factory</span> and this <span class="building">factory</span> came. </sentence><sentence id="3999">And I had to um send out runners: Who had good eyes? </sentence><sentence id="4000">Who can see well? </sentence><sentence id="4001">Brought them there. </sentence><sentence id="4002">And he selected so many, and they went-- who had good hands, they are good with the fingers. </sentence><sentence id="4003">And so lot of <span class="spatial object">transport</span> went; but unfortunately, a lot of people went to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4004">Which I couldn't, by all my strength 8 This was the <span class="populated place">women's camp</span> designated as <span class="dlf">B2c</span> in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4005"> and influence, I couldn't... Because Eichmann was here. </sentence><sentence id="4006">Not I was the one who dictated the...the running of world. </sentence><sentence id="4007">Eichmann did. </sentence><sentence id="4008">Anyway, so the <span class="building">Lager</span> finished abruptly; and Kramer came for me and he said, "Now, come with me. </sentence><sentence id="4009">I am going to take you and you are going to work hard." </sentence><sentence id="4010">I said, "Like all others." " </sentence><sentence id="4011">No, you are going to work harder." </sentence><sentence id="4012">So I said, "This is my fate. </sentence><sentence id="4013">I am going to work." </sentence><sentence id="4014">And imagine, he took me to the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>, and-- the <span class="interior space">lager kitchen</span>--and he announced to the SS woman um...um Schultz... No, I don't say the name because maybe it comes back. </sentence><sentence id="4015">And he said, "Here I bring you a new <span class="spatial object">kapo</span> of the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4016">She will be in charge." </sentence><sentence id="4017">And she said, "Fine." </sentence><sentence id="4018">Franz. </sentence><sentence id="4019">Did I said Franz before?Franz. </sentence><sentence id="4020">Because we called her "<span class="building">Franzka</span>." </sentence><sentence id="4021"><span class="building">Franzka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4022">And um she had a sister there, too. </sentence><sentence id="4023">She was working somewhere else. </sentence><sentence id="4024">And um I knew that there is a kapo, a German woman, who is a lesbian friend--you know, because you knew those things--of a Lageraltester. </sentence><sentence id="4025">A German woman with a red triangle. </sentence><sentence id="4026">And I said, "If I take the position of her lesbian friend, how she will handle the other woman? </sentence><sentence id="4027">Because she will be mad; and mad on...on innocent people." </sentence><sentence id="4028">So I said to her, Franz... said, "Listen, I am not good in those things. </sentence><sentence id="4029">I wouldn't even know how to manage those things. </sentence><sentence id="4030">She is doing a very good job." </sentence><sentence id="4031">But I said, "I would rather do the counting out, the <span class="building">Lager office</span> work. </sentence><sentence id="4032">I'm good in that. </sentence><sentence id="4033">I will count on the food. </sentence><sentence id="4034">How much, so many." </sentence><sentence id="4035">So she said, "But what will the Lagerkommandant Kramer says?" </sentence><sentence id="4036">I said, "He will be satisfied." </sentence><sentence id="4037">Like he would tell me, you know. </sentence><sentence id="4038">I said, "He will be satisfied." </sentence><sentence id="4039">So, in this case, he said, "Go and do the counting." </sentence><sentence id="4040">And I was in the counting; and another woman who used to be in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> in the C, she was suddenly here and she didn't have what to do. </sentence><sentence id="4041">She said, "Can you help me somehow?" </sentence><sentence id="4042">So I said to Franz, to this SS woman Franz, "Listen. </sentence><sentence id="4043">There is so much work. </sentence><sentence id="4044">It's two <span class="populated place">camps</span> to handle and a little bit too much for me. </sentence><sentence id="4045">Could I have another help?" " </sentence><sentence id="4046">Ah, have how many you need!" " </sentence><sentence id="4047">No," I said, "one will do. </sentence><sentence id="4048">And now I can count wonderful." </sentence><sentence id="4049">People didn't know why they suddenly got double portions. ( </sentence><sentence id="4050">Laughter) Because I counted so many. </sentence><sentence id="4051">But it didn't last long. </sentence><sentence id="4052">With me, it never lasted. </sentence><sentence id="4053">I felt very comfortable there. </sentence><sentence id="4054">You know, we...we did the counting, and...and I was happy to know that people are happy. </sentence><sentence id="4055">Suddenly, they called my number to the front. </sentence><sentence id="4056">When you call the number to the front, that meant that you are going to the Politisch [NB: the <span class="building">Politisch Abteilung</span>] and probably did something terrible, and they are going to kill you. </sentence><sentence id="4057">All the girls said goodbye. </sentence><sentence id="4058">They kissed me, hugged me. </sentence><sentence id="4059">And I went to the front; and here again Kramer with his black <span class="spatial object">car</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4060">And he said, "Sit in the <span class="spatial object">car</span>." </sentence><sentence id="4061">I sat in the <span class="spatial object">car</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4062">So now, he said, "Tell me what did you..." It's a German expression: "ausgefressen" [Trans: "chewed out" or "finished"; colloquialism] Which means, "what did you do wrong?" </sentence><sentence id="4063">What is special, more than wrong. </sentence><sentence id="4064">And I said, "I did always to the best of the people and the running of the <span class="populated place">camp</span>." </sentence><sentence id="4065">And he repeated it hundred times, and hundred times I said the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="4066">And now when we went to...in the <span class="spatial object">car</span>, so if he would go straight then that means he would take me to the <span class="building">crematorium</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4067">Suddenly, I see that he wents in. </sentence><sentence id="4068">And that was again to the <span class="populated place">Camp C</span>, where I was. </sentence><sentence id="4069">Why I was afraid that when he said that "What did you do wrong," because I still had the letters which I didn't have time to deliver. </sentence><sentence id="4070">And I thought they found the letters, and now the punishment will be <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4071">But no...because he said, "Step out. [ </sentence><sentence id="4072">Ranken (ph)]."" </sentence><sentence id="4073">And he said once more, "What did you ausgefressen?" </sentence><sentence id="4074">And I said, "I did to everything to the best of the <span class="populated place">camp</span> and the people." " </sentence><sentence id="4075">Is that so?" " </sentence><sentence id="4076">Yes, that's so." " </sentence><sentence id="4077">So here you will be <span class="building">Lageraltester</span> again, but you will have a <span class="building">Weberei</span>." </sentence><sentence id="4078">That means, a Weaving [<span class="interior space">Room</span>]. </sentence><sentence id="4079">They...they will be weavers in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4080">So I became again <span class="building">Lageraltester</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4296">Q: We must stop. </sentence><sentence id="4297">OK. </sentence><sentence id="4298">The tape has run out...has ended. </sentence><sentence id="4299">We are going to break. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="4304">TECHNICAL CONVERSATION TAPE #4 TECHNICAL CONVERSATION </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4307">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="4308">We are back. </sentence><sentence id="4309">Um, Madga, would you tell us about being returned to <span class="populated place">Lager C</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4313">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="4314">As I mentioned it before, I was um returned by Kommandant um Kramer to Lager C.And there was a <span class="building">Weberei</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4315">We been for a while there. </sentence><sentence id="4316">And in another <span class="populated place">Lager</span>, in another <span class="populated place">camp</span> next to us a... It was emptied the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4317">And there was a <span class="building">Lagerfiihrerin</span>, her...her name Danz, was her... And she was a terrible brutal woman. </sentence><sentence id="4318">But the <span class="populated place">camp</span> was emptied. </sentence><sentence id="4319">And also the girls, whom she was working with, um was free. </sentence><sentence id="4320">So she thought she will put me down, and she will put the other girls on and herself. </sentence><sentence id="4321">And she is push...and she pushes <span class="building">Grese</span> out, too. </sentence><sentence id="4322">So, yah. </sentence><sentence id="4323">She came to the <span class="populated place">camp</span>; and she says, "Magda, you are not Lageriltester anymore." </sentence><sentence id="4324">And she was watching me what I will say, I will beg for it. </sentence><sentence id="4325">But I said, "That's alright." </sentence><sentence id="4326">So she said I will be um somewhere in a <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4327">I accepted it. </sentence><sentence id="4328">And the other girls came on, with her together. </sentence><sentence id="4329">But she was even more brutal than...than Grese; because she was running like crazy all over the <span class="populated place">camp</span> with the whip, and whipping left and right. </sentence><sentence id="4330">I was very sorry that is happening, but I had no way to stop her from it. </sentence><sentence id="4331">But there was a German um prisoner, and who was really a...with a black triangle which he was a thief sometime. </sentence><sentence id="4332">But he was sitting many years there. </sentence><sentence id="4333">And he was saying there to a young girl, who he sometimes he rested in...in her <span class="building">barrack</span>; because it was the last <span class="building">barrack</span> on the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, and he used to come with the kommando there. </sentence><sentence id="4334">And he had different privileges, so he asked if he could rest there. </sentence><sentence id="4335">And he told to that girl, "I will fix her! </sentence><sentence id="4336">Madga is coming back, and that's it!" </sentence><sentence id="4337">So it was really lasting three days. </sentence><sentence id="4338">And after three days, I was back. </sentence><sentence id="4339">Back again in the...like...like <span class="building">Lageraltester</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4340">But it didn't last um very long, because it was coming already close to the march of January 18th [1945], when the death march started. </sentence><sentence id="4341">But...and may I...?Before I go with the death march, I have a few interesting things which I forgot. </sentence><sentence id="4342">First of all, in <span class="dlf">Lager C</span>--the first time--it was in one...in two <span class="building">barracks</span> was concentrated all the young girls who was from fourteen "til about seventeen. </sentence><sentence id="4343">And in one of the <span class="building">barracks</span>--and Mengele who couldn't, you know, stand such beautiful girls, Jewish girls, being there. </sentence><sentence id="4344">So just when one of the <span class="building">barracks</span> was emptied, either part went on <span class="spatial object">transport</span> or the other part into the <span class="building">crematoria</span>, he asked to transfer all the <span class="building">barrack</span> from one <span class="dlf">block</span> to <span class="dlf">Block 3</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4345">And there, at night, they supposed to come for them to be gassed. </sentence><sentence id="4346">He put there, in the front of the <span class="building">barrack</span>, a post man. </sentence><sentence id="4347">Not a post man--a SS man who was...he didn't have a big...a big function, you know?Just a ordinary man, who should um be there on watch. </sentence><sentence id="4348">When I heard what happening, so I went together with the report uh writer of mine. </sentence><sentence id="4349">And I said, "What can we do to save those children? </sentence><sentence id="4350">After all, from no reason whatsoever, from there one day or "nother they should be gassed. </sentence><sentence id="4351">This is our future, if there will be a world. </sentence><sentence id="4352">We need that generation!" </sentence><sentence id="4353">So I said, "You know what? </sentence><sentence id="4354">We are going to approach this man. </sentence><sentence id="4355">And we will have a little chat with him." </sentence><sentence id="4356">Because it was already after the "appell," the counting; and in the <span class="populated place">camp</span> was no other SS man but him. </sentence><sentence id="4357">So I started to talk with him. </sentence><sentence id="4358">And I said, "How are you" and so so. </sentence><sentence id="4359">And he told me that he is going...tomorrow morning he is going to the <span class="region">Siberia</span>, to the front. </sentence><sentence id="4360">I came with the news together, and said "Oh, here is our chance. </sentence><sentence id="4361">We have to do something." </sentence><sentence id="4362">So she said, "What?" " </sentence><sentence id="4363">We have to get somewhere a bottle of schnapps and make him drunk." </sentence><sentence id="4364">So we found a bottle of schnapps. </sentence><sentence id="4365">Matter of fact, at that girl's place where the German with the <span class="dlf">black triangle</span> used to rest. </sentence><sentence id="4366">And he left a <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>, so next day he should drink. </sentence><sentence id="4367">We...we searched all the <span class="building">barracks</span> "til we came to that <span class="building">barrack</span>, and there we find. </sentence><sentence id="4368">So I said, "Gerda, .." She was...that was her name. "... </sentence><sentence id="4369">Go there with a cup and tell him, "Have a little um drink. </sentence><sentence id="4370">Tomorrow you are going to the front. </sentence><sentence id="4371">Be a little bit merry." </sentence><sentence id="4372">So he had a little drink. </sentence><sentence id="4373">After a while, I went and offered him a little drink. </sentence><sentence id="4374">Again, Gerda. </sentence><sentence id="4375">The fourth time, I gave him the whole <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4376">I said, "Look, be merry! </sentence><sentence id="4377">What...you know what happens. </sentence><sentence id="4378">Forget the world." </sentence><sentence id="4379">He was already a little bit tipsy, so he didn't need much. </sentence><sentence id="4380">And when he drank the <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>, he fell asleep. </sentence><sentence id="4381">You know, he slammed down and fell asleep. </sentence><sentence id="4382">I said, "Gerda, that's our oppor...opportunity." </sentence><sentence id="4383">I went to the back of the <span class="building">barrack</span>--which I told you there supposed to be like a <span class="interior space">wash room</span>, but wasn't. </sentence><sentence id="4384">I knocked on the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4385">They opened the <span class="dlf">door</span>, and I said, "Shhhh..." And I put the girls down in the five, about hundred a time. </sentence><sentence id="4386">And then I just went, and I put the girls in every <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4387">I said, "You have hundred girls more tomorrow on your counting, and don't say anything." </sentence><sentence id="4388">And so by the hundred I took them, and I divided them all over the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4389">And we left. </sentence><sentence id="4390">When everybody was divided, we just left the <span class="building">barrack</span>, closed the <span class="dlf">door</span>; and we went to <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="4391">Til today, we didn't know how it is possible that nobody was claiming the girls and nobody claimed anything. </sentence><sentence id="4392">If they killed the man, or they sent him to the <span class="region">Siberia</span> anyway. </sentence><sentence id="4393">What happened, we don't know. </sentence><sentence id="4394">But one thing I know: that in this way, we saved the eight hundred girls. </sentence><sentence id="4395">And the eight hundred girl... Yah, just with that thinking how can we overcome and play out at <span class="populated place">Mengele</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4396">Because I was so mad at him that he did it. </sentence><sentence id="4397">Anyway, but um later it was very interesting that... Um now I have to jump ahead. </sentence><sentence id="4398">On that death march when we been already um going towards <span class="populated place">Malchow</span>,"" but I will come back to it. </sentence><sentence id="4399">So an SS man, in a orderly manner, approached me. </sentence><sentence id="4400">And I don't know from what reason he asked me, "What are you from profession?" </sentence><sentence id="4401">I said, "My goodness me!" </sentence><sentence id="4402">I said, "We are going to <span class="populated place">Malchow</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4403">What do I need to have profession?" " </sentence><sentence id="4404">No, no. </sentence><sentence id="4405">I need, because I have forty young girls here. </sentence><sentence id="4406">And I want you to be in charge of the forty girls." </sentence><sentence id="4407">And that was a part of those forty girls. </sentence><sentence id="4408">Where the other girls are, I don't know; but I just recently heard that they are still... A few of them, I don't know where else or how many, are living in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4409">So this is the one thing which I thought I will mention; because it was not such a easy thing. </sentence><sentence id="4410">How when we went to sleep "til we woke up, we thought, "My goodness!If they found out..." But they didn't, thanks heavens. </sentence><sentence id="4411">Then (cough) the other thing which I forgot. </sentence><sentence id="4412">In <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>, one um day I was called again to the front. </sentence><sentence id="4413">Always called to the front. </sentence><sentence id="4414">And the Lagerkommandant said to me that a Russian um <span class="populated place">village</span> is coming here as an exchange for the Russian...for the German generals. " </sentence><sentence id="4415">And we found in the papers that you are a kindergarten teacher, so you will take over this whole um <span class="populated place">Russian village</span> except the the woman between eighteen "til thirty-five. </sentence><sentence id="4416">The rest--the little babies, the pregnant woman, the whole, the old ones--belongs... Um, you will take them over." </sentence><sentence id="4417">So I again open my mouth; and I said, "In this case, if I have to take over <span class="populated place">Russian village</span> who has to be exchanged for Russian general, so I want." </sentence><sentence id="4418">And I put conditions. </sentence><sentence id="4419">I said, "I want them to be bathed daily. </sentence><sentence id="4420">I want them to have not to stand on the <span class="spatial object">app</span>...on the counting. </sentence><sentence id="4421">I want to pick um sixteen girls 4 Subcamp of <span class="populated place">Ravensbriick</span>, located near <span class="region">Mecklenburg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4422"> out from the Russian woman to be my helpers. </sentence><sentence id="4423">I don't want to them to stand "appell." </sentence><sentence id="4424">And I want them to get the food of the German SS." </sentence><sentence id="4425">You know, I was waiting; and I was thinking, "Madga, you crazy?! </sentence><sentence id="4426">What you are...(laughter) What you are asking? </sentence><sentence id="4427">Who are you to demand?" </sentence><sentence id="4428">And he said, "OK. </sentence><sentence id="4429">You get it." </sentence><sentence id="4430">And so I got the <span class="populated place">Germa</span>...the <span class="populated place">Russian village</span>, with the little babies to the old woman. </sentence><sentence id="4431">And, naturally, didn't take them long to find out that the...how the other people lived and how they lived. </sentence><sentence id="4432">So they um...really, they admired me; carried me around, took me to the...to the <span class="interior space">room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4433">And they said they will take me to <span class="building">batushka</span> (ph)] Stalin. </sentence><sentence id="4434">They take me to <span class="country">Russia</span> to show me to <span class="populated place">Stalin</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4435">Thanks very much. </sentence><sentence id="4436">I didn't know then (laughter)... I didn't know what Stalin is, anyway. </sentence><sentence id="4437">And so they stayed with me, and they was very grateful. </sentence><sentence id="4438">One thing, which is a cruel thing of the Germans; that one day they gathered all the children from about um four or six, and they send them to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4439">And matter of fact, Grese, you see--who always was telling me things... She said, "You know where they going? </sentence><sentence id="4440">They are going to <span class="country">Germany</span>, and they will be um...they will be given away to um the farmers, who hasn't got children, for adoption. </sentence><sentence id="4441">In a few years, they won't even know they are Russians. </sentence><sentence id="4442">And they, the parents, will have a new genera...new children." </sentence><sentence id="4443">Anyway, and um also anoth...another occasion, Grese told me, "You know why we are putting Jewish woman in charge? </sentence><sentence id="4444">With all the strength which you wouldn't want to, I know. </sentence><sentence id="4445">But imagine, if the war will be over and the Germans are losing, so they won't...they won't remember the SS. </sentence><sentence id="4446">But they ..._ Because they don't see them so often. </sentence><sentence id="4447">But they will remember those girls with whom they been everyday, and who had such a hard position, when they are so hungry, thirsty and tired. </sentence><sentence id="4448">And now comes a woman in charge; and maybe she raises her voice or demanding. </sentence><sentence id="4449">Her, they will remember! </sentence><sentence id="4450">And that's what we want. </sentence><sentence id="4451">We want to be unknown. </sentence><sentence id="4452">If we either um not succeed, but we do succeed." </sentence><sentence id="4453">I tell you, she said. </sentence><sentence id="4454">Anyway, this was the other thing. </sentence><sentence id="4455">And now um coming back, um... So that was the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="4456">| really did...um we went to [bombard (ph)], and they had a beautiful food. </sentence><sentence id="4457">And imagine, the whole <span class="populated place">camp</span> was saying, "Magda is crazy! </sentence><sentence id="4458">What she is doing, nobody can do that like her! </sentence><sentence id="4459">Demanded Russians should get the SS food, for the SS man!" </sentence><sentence id="4460">But anyway...Then we went on the march, which you heard it so many times displayed. </sentence><sentence id="4461">So I'm not going to details, only... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4619">Q: I do want to hear your story. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4621">A: You want to...? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4623">Q: Yes I do. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4625">A: Yah, so when we went on the march. </sentence><sentence id="4626">So um before we went, so they broke in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4627">And the girls, they took what they could; because they knew what...they didn't know how long the march will be and where they are going. </sentence><sentence id="4628">So they took some um salami, bread, margarine, sugar and salt. </sentence><sentence id="4629">And they went; but naturally who... The...the SS men was running away, because they knew the Russian are coming close. </sentence><sentence id="4630">So they...yah, they was rushing us with all the speed possible, because they didn't want to be caught by the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="4631">And anyone who...who moved down to fix her um shoes or bend down for something, they straight away um put her to death. </sentence><sentence id="4632">And my aim was: "Girls, we in the front." </sentence><sentence id="4633">Because in the <span class="interior space">back</span>, they was shooting everybody. </sentence><sentence id="4634">And um the girls was carrying the...that we found there some <span class="spatial object">rucksacks</span> in the <span class="interior space">store room</span>; and they, in the <span class="spatial object">rucksacks</span> they put the food. </sentence><sentence id="4635">But it was heavy to run and to carry; so slowly, they threw most of the food away. </sentence><sentence id="4636">And what I asked them to keep is margarine and sugar, because this time we thought that this is the source of energy. </sentence><sentence id="4637">And so we marched, and we came to <span class="populated place">Ravensbriick</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4638"><span class="populated place">Ravensbriick</span>...um we been put on the <span class="interior space">floor</span>, and there were just a huge <span class="spatial object">tent</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4639">And in that <span class="building">tent</span>, we been in without food, on the <span class="interior space">floor</span>--nothing, no <span class="spatial object">mattresses</span>, no blankets. </sentence><sentence id="4640">The situation was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="4641">I don't think... many, many um lost their life. </sentence><sentence id="4642">And I was very sick there. </sentence><sentence id="4643">But, you see, again the fate wanted something. </sentence><sentence id="4644">So I told you about the French woman who was so grateful to me, and there was in <span class="populated place">Ravensbriick</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4645">Because they was, like I told you, intellectuals; and they was working there in the <span class="building">offices</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4646">They found out that the <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span> girls arrived. </sentence><sentence id="4647">So... and they came to the <span class="building">tent</span>, and they looked for Magda. </sentence><sentence id="4648">So they found me. </sentence><sentence id="4649">They took me to them, and they really brought me back to health. </sentence><sentence id="4650">And they...they let me have [butna (ph)] wash. </sentence><sentence id="4651">There they feed me. </sentence><sentence id="4652">They been...they gave me medicament. </sentence><sentence id="4653">And so, "til we had to march, I just went to the roll call there. </sentence><sentence id="4654">Otherwise, I been always in their <span class="building">barrack</span>. ( </sentence><sentence id="4655">Cough). </sentence><sentence id="4656">When it was the time to march farther on, I was good again. </sentence><sentence id="4657">But on the march, (cough) suddenly the Germans, they drove us to a empty um...like where the <span class="env feature">trees</span> are. </sentence><sentence id="4658">What is it? </sentence><sentence id="4659">A...(cough) (Pause) Not a <span class="env feature">mountain</span>, but where are the <span class="env feature">trees</span>... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4696">Q: The <span class="env feature">trees</span>...the <span class="env feature">hills</span>? </sentence><sentence id="4697"><span class="env feature">Trees</span>, in the <span class="env feature">woods</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4700">A: <span class="env feature">Woods</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4701">They...they... Yeah, thank you. </sentence><sentence id="4702">In the <span class="env feature">woods</span>, and there was nothing. </sentence><sentence id="4703">It was snow and freezing...just was an empty...empty <span class="building">barrack</span> there. </sentence><sentence id="4704">And they put us there, and they went away. </sentence><sentence id="4705">And we been finishing nearly with that little margarine and sugar, which I every day made a little <span class="spatial object">bowl</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4706">And I divided to everyone which the group which I had. </sentence><sentence id="4707">Like a hand with the little chickens. </sentence><sentence id="4708">I had always around me, you know, like a <span class="building">harem</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4709">Whom I couldn't help everybody, but whom I could. </sentence><sentence id="4710">So it was getting to end, and we been very hungry. </sentence><sentence id="4711">And I was um, you know, dozing away in the weakness. </sentence><sentence id="4712">And suddenly I had a dream. </sentence><sentence id="4713">And in the dream, my mother came. </sentence><sentence id="4714">And she had a big dish, with fresh beautiful um cakes what you make for Saturday, you know? </sentence><sentence id="4715">From butter, butter and milk and little...round little cakes-- like roll-types. </sentence><sentence id="4716">And I want to grab one in my dream, and she is pushing it always away. </sentence><sentence id="4717">And I said Mom, "I'm so hungry. </sentence><sentence id="4718">Why you taking it away?" </sentence><sentence id="4719">She said, "Because I want your promise." </sentence><sentence id="4720">And I said, "What is the promise?" " </sentence><sentence id="4721">Promise me when you marry and you will have children, you will bring them up as Jewish children." </sentence><sentence id="4722">And I, in my dream I said, "My goodness, Mom! </sentence><sentence id="4723">Where I am alive? </sentence><sentence id="4724">Where I am married? </sentence><sentence id="4725">Where I have children? </sentence><sentence id="4726">What you want that promise, when I am so hungry?" </sentence><sentence id="4727">She said, "You can't have it "til you don't promise." </sentence><sentence id="4728">And so I said, "Alright, I promise." </sentence><sentence id="4729">In this moment, somebody's touching my shoulder. </sentence><sentence id="4730">And I open my eye. </sentence><sentence id="4731">And the Russian woman--like I told you, they been very good--and they already heard that in the <span class="env feature">woods</span> are people from the um from <span class="populated place">Ausch</span>...from <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4732">And they...and when she heard, she was working like a nurse in the <span class="building">SS hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4733">She made a big bowl of peeled potatoes, like potatoes in the peel. </sentence><sentence id="4734">She wrapped that all over in blankets, and she was going through the <span class="env feature">woods</span> and was looking for me. </sentence><sentence id="4735">And she found me. </sentence><sentence id="4736">And she said, "Magda, I brought here food for you." </sentence><sentence id="4737">And this was when I was just reaching with my hands in my dream. </sentence><sentence id="4738">And here I have my hand like that, and she is petting. </sentence><sentence id="4739">And I open it, and here she offers the fresh boiled hot potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="4740">And we been...you know, it was the biggest delicacy. </sentence><sentence id="4741">And that really saved our life for a while again. </sentence><sentence id="4742">And so I say that it's never...like when you do something good, you never know when you are getting um repaid with some goodness again. </sentence><sentence id="4743">And that was it. </sentence><sentence id="4744">Then um we marched, um and we came to the place <span class="populated place">Malchow</span>, like I said. </sentence><sentence id="4745">So I had the forty girls there. </sentence><sentence id="4746">But meantime, there was a girl who knew me um a few years ahead and she knew how I was. </sentence><sentence id="4747">So she said, "The forty girls can hand to somebody else. </sentence><sentence id="4748">But there is um many like thousands um woman, and they need somebody to take care of them." </sentence><sentence id="4749">So I was exchanged, and I became there again <span class="dlf">block</span> oldest. </sentence><sentence id="4750">And again I was explaining the girls that we have to keep together. </sentence><sentence id="4751">We are to help each other, and we will survive. " </sentence><sentence id="4752">And...and I will try to do everything you should get food, and I will make sure that everybody...nobody is left over. </sentence><sentence id="4753">I divide the food evenly. </sentence><sentence id="4754">Whatever I have, you have." </sentence><sentence id="4755">And so it it was for a while. </sentence><sentence id="4756">And suddenly the news came that Danz is coming here. </sentence><sentence id="4757">So...and I saw her again with the whip running around the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4758">So I said, "Oh, my goodness! </sentence><sentence id="4759">What could we do to stop her?" </sentence><sentence id="4760">But she made the decision herself. </sentence><sentence id="4761">They needed a a woman who would um divide people to go to work; and they called Arbeitsdienst--"working in charge," or something." </sentence><sentence id="4762">> So um everybody wanted to be in that position, because it's not that bad position. </sentence><sentence id="4763">I didn't. </sentence><sentence id="4764">And she choose me. </sentence><sentence id="4765">She choose me. </sentence><sentence id="4766">So when she choose me, I [NB: she] said, "You know why I choose you? </sentence><sentence id="4767">Because I have a respect for you." </sentence><sentence id="4768">And I said, "Do you?" " </sentence><sentence id="4769">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="4770">You remember when I put you down as from <span class="building">Lageraltester</span>, and pushed you down and you wouldn't be maybe alive now. </sentence><sentence id="4771">And you didn't for one moment say "Why," or beg at me that I should give you the position or nothing. </sentence><sentence id="4772">You just accepted and you been proud standing there. </sentence><sentence id="4773">And...and I have respect from you, that you weren't afraid and you didn't ask or you didn't bring me or you didn't want to bribe me, that all...that I should put you on. </sentence><sentence id="4774">So I.... am picking you for that position." </sentence><sentence id="4775">So I said, "Now I have the chance!" </sentence><sentence id="4776">There was, you know, in all positions like that <span class="populated place">camp</span> or <span class="building">prison</span>, there is always that you are looking... reading from the palm and all things. </sentence><sentence id="4777">So while she got acquainted with me again, she told me all her story: about a brother she has in <span class="region">Siberia</span>, and how she's worrying about him and all those things. </sentence><sentence id="4778">And I listened, and I said, "Now is my chance." </sentence><sentence id="4779">I looked for one of those girls who was also reading for my palms, and I told her the story about the Danz and her brother, and that. </sentence><sentence id="4780">I said, "You have to be very careful. </sentence><sentence id="4781">What you know the facts, but you don't have to make it obvious. </sentence><sentence id="4782">You have to just slowly, gradually... Because you have plenty time; because while you are occupying her, she's not trying...running around with the whip around." </sentence><sentence id="4783">So she went around. </sentence><sentence id="4784">And she um told her this and that. </sentence><sentence id="4785">But it finished up that, "Oh, your brother is worrying about you." " </sentence><sentence id="4786">What you mean?" " </sentence><sentence id="4787">Because he is in the <span class="region">Russian front</span>." " </sentence><sentence id="4788">How you know?" " </sentence><sentence id="4789">I can see it in your hands. </sentence><sentence id="4790">And he is worrying you." " </sentence><sentence id="4791">What you mean, "he is worrying you?" </sentence><sentence id="4792">You mean he's worrying that the war is to the end, and that I am like I am, doing that to the prisoners, and he is afraid that maybe I will get the punishment for it?" </sentence><sentence id="4793">And she said, "I don't know what you mean, but that's what is written in your hand. </sentence><sentence id="4794">That he is very worried, and he is really thinking on "S NB: <span class="building">Labor Service</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4795"> you with all his heart. </sentence><sentence id="4796">And he loves you so much, and he's caring for you and he's scared for you." </sentence><sentence id="4797">So, that did it. </sentence><sentence id="4798">Next... And I was keeping away, meantime; I didn't want to know. </sentence><sentence id="4799">And then she calls me, and she said, "Magda, this woman is wonderful. </sentence><sentence id="4800">Do you know what she told me?" </sentence><sentence id="4801">And that and that. </sentence><sentence id="4802">So she said, "You think I should stop going hitting people on... on the...with the whip?" </sentence><sentence id="4803">I said, "I don't know." </sentence><sentence id="4804">I said, "I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="4805">Um, is that your brother's wish?" </sentence><sentence id="4806">She said, "It seems to be." </sentence><sentence id="4807">So I said, "I leave it to you." </sentence><sentence id="4808">But it left her this way; but I thought maybe she would think it over, because... So I found somebody else. </sentence><sentence id="4809">There is...was a...is a girl, she lives in <span class="populated place">Melbourne</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4810">She's a very good portrait artist, not a professional but.... And I came to her the next day, before she has a chance to reading her whipping again. </sentence><sentence id="4811">And she said... said to her that, um, "Oh, I have a very good um portrait writer ...um painter, who thinks you would be very good um to make a portrait about you." " </sentence><sentence id="4812">She...and she thinks I have the face for it?" " </sentence><sentence id="4813">Definitely!" </sentence><sentence id="4814">I said, "Definitely. </sentence><sentence id="4815">Would you like her to come, and...and she will make you a nice portrait. </sentence><sentence id="4816">It, it...she doesn't want anything. </sentence><sentence id="4817">Doesn't cost you anything. </sentence><sentence id="4818">You just have to sit and see. </sentence><sentence id="4819">If you like it, good. </sentence><sentence id="4820">If you don't like it..." But I knew she would like it. </sentence><sentence id="4821">So that was it. </sentence><sentence id="4822">I kept her from the <span class="dlf">street</span> again. </sentence><sentence id="4823">And I said to her--Edith is her name--I said, "Don't rush with the...laughing) with the <span class="spatial object">painting</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4824">But always show her your progress, because then she is interested." </sentence><sentence id="4825">And one day she told me, "You know, this girl. </sentence><sentence id="4826">She's very good. </sentence><sentence id="4827">She's doing a wonderful job. </sentence><sentence id="4828">I wonder when she finish? </sentence><sentence id="4829">I am really anxious to see how it will look." </sentence><sentence id="4830">And anyway, then I said, "You know, you better make it now quicker. </sentence><sentence id="4831">Because um that would not be good." </sentence><sentence id="4832">And...and so she finished the um portrait. </sentence><sentence id="4833">And she was very happy with it. </sentence><sentence id="4834">And you know what? </sentence><sentence id="4835">She never used the whip again. </sentence><sentence id="4836">And I was very happy because, you know, such a whip. </sentence><sentence id="4837">It wasn't just a <span class="spatial object">whip</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4838">With inside, it was uh like...like iron, you know, a certain thing. </sentence><sentence id="4839">It was...outside it was leather, but inside... When you got whipped with it, it really hurted. </sentence><sentence id="4840">Anyway, and meantime the war was getting closer. </sentence><sentence id="4841">And again they was rushing us out from the <span class="populated place">camp</span> and they wanted to us to go closer...um deeper in <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4842">And on the way, it was...the population was moving backwards and forwards with their <span class="spatial object">baskets</span> and with their <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> and everything. </sentence><sentence id="4843">And suddenly some Russian girls arrived. </sentence><sentence id="4844">Because they found out that we are marching, and...and they thought I will be there. </sentence><sentence id="4845">And they knew that the Russian are coming close. </sentence><sentence id="4846">So suddenly they been there. </sentence><sentence id="4847">And they said, "Magda, we came to save you. </sentence><sentence id="4848">And we are going. </sentence><sentence id="4849">We are partisans. </sentence><sentence id="4850">We been partisans, and we know how to hide a person in the <span class="env feature">woods</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4851">We will make like a little <span class="building">hut</span> for you, and we will hide you. </sentence><sentence id="4852">Because when the Russian will come--which we have heard that they are very close--there, first of all, they will rape you all...um like not one, but all. </sentence><sentence id="4853">And then if somebody pointed that you been in function, then they will kill you. </sentence><sentence id="4854">And I want to have a chance...we want to have a chance to explain who you are, and then we take you out." </sentence><sentence id="4855">So first, L...1 was arguing; because I was the hand with that little chickens. </sentence><sentence id="4856">So I argued, and I said, "I want to take girls to hide." </sentence><sentence id="4857">She said, "Magda, you ask the impossible! </sentence><sentence id="4858">How...then we had to make a real...not a [place to] hide, a <span class="building">bungalow</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4859">A <span class="building">bungalow</span>! </sentence><sentence id="4860">So we can't do." </sentence><sentence id="4861">Anyway, on the end, three. </sentence><sentence id="4862">Three we managed, and they really hide us in the <span class="env feature">woods</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4863">They made <span class="dlf">branches</span>, and so we been inside like in a <span class="interior space">cocoon</span>. </sentence><sentence id="4864">And the Russians soon arrived. </sentence><sentence id="4865">Meantime, before they arrived they um stopped in a... Uh where ...where they made um flour. </sentence><sentence id="4866">No, how you call it? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5035">Q: <span class="building">Ina mill</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5037">A: <span class="building">Ina mill</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5038">And in the <span class="building">mill</span>, they was... They run away, the Germans; but there was a <span class="interior space">store room</span> of everything what you think. </sentence><sentence id="5039">In the <span class="interior space">cellar</span>: food, meat, everything. </sentence><sentence id="5040">They had supplies for years there. </sentence><sentence id="5041">Anyway, so they always brought us something to eat. </sentence><sentence id="5042">Meantime the Russian arrived. </sentence><sentence id="5043">And they settled in this <span class="building">mill</span>, because it was so big. </sentence><sentence id="5044">And they settled in; and the girls, they used the opportunity to slowly brought them to the idea that...about me, and that how now they was explaining how I was to them and like a mother, like a this, like that. </sentence><sentence id="5045">And when that was explained, so they came to pick us up. </sentence><sentence id="5046">And when they came to pick us up, so they put us to the <span class="spatial object">head table</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5047">And, you know, was like personality plus I was. </sentence><sentence id="5048">And when I wanted to help to cooking, you know, how because there was a lot of... So he said, "No." </sentence><sentence id="5049">You know the Russians said, "Nyet." </sentence><sentence id="5050">You know how they said, "Nyet. </sentence><sentence id="5051">You sit down. </sentence><sentence id="5052">You have the celebrity. </sentence><sentence id="5053">You did a very important thing for our Russians. </sentence><sentence id="5054">Now the...let the others work." </sentence><sentence id="5055">So that was that. </sentence><sentence id="5056">But naturally they had to continue their journey; and we continued, too. </sentence><sentence id="5057">And then we came to a place, and um where all the Czechoslovakian people gathered. </sentence><sentence id="5058">And now they started to bring them with the <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> back to <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>, "cause it wasn't very far. </sentence><sentence id="5059">But I can't tell you the place, which is not important. </sentence><sentence id="5060">Anyway...but what happened: there was a lot of Hungarian girls, and the Hungarian girls went on the rampaging, you know, in the <span class="building">houses</span> and... How you call it? </sentence><sentence id="5061">Um, stealing the jewelry and then the <span class="spatial object">bed</span> and carpets and everything. </sentence><sentence id="5062">So the Czech girls, they said um they are very upset about those girls and they don't want with those girls to go <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5063">First of all, the Russians wanted them to send to <span class="region">Siberia</span> and to work, or to the harvesting. </sentence><sentence id="5064">So and they came to me: "Magda, listen. </sentence><sentence id="5065">They are sending us to harvesting! </sentence><sentence id="5066">We want to go <span class="building">home</span>, and see what...if somebody is alive. </sentence><sentence id="5067">And we work enough. </sentence><sentence id="5068">We don't want again." </sentence><sentence id="5069">So I went to the commander; and I spoke by the time, you know, very well Russian. </sentence><sentence id="5070">And I told them, "They are not your enemies. </sentence><sentence id="5071">They... they been Jews. </sentence><sentence id="5072">That's why the um Hungarians threw them out. </sentence><sentence id="5073">Now you want them...to send them to work to <span class="country">Russia</span>, because they are enemies of...of um...like of the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="5074">Like they are like friends with the Hungarian! </sentence><sentence id="5075">They are not Hungarians. </sentence><sentence id="5076">They are Jews who suffered because they are Jews." </sentence><sentence id="5077">So they...he said, the commander, "Yes, you right." </sentence><sentence id="5078">Then they wanted to send the girls to work in the <span class="building">meat factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5079">So again they came. " </sentence><sentence id="5080">Magda, what we are going to do? </sentence><sentence id="5081">They send us to the <span class="building">meat factory</span>!" </sentence><sentence id="5082">So I again went to the commander. </sentence><sentence id="5083">And I said, "Look. </sentence><sentence id="5084">They are girls who live three, three and a half years, two years <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5085">And now you want them to work here? </sentence><sentence id="5086">Isn't that enough German woman here who was living here in comfort? </sentence><sentence id="5087">Take them!" </sentence><sentence id="5088">And he said, "You're right!" </sentence><sentence id="5089">And so I saved those also. </sentence><sentence id="5090">But then they didn't want to take the <span class="building">Czechoslovakian girls home</span>, the Jewish girls. </sentence><sentence id="5091">So a woman, like a older woman, from my <span class="populated place">hometown</span>, she said, "Magda, you have to do something or they will leave us here. </sentence><sentence id="5092">They will take the Czech people, and be...leave us here under the Russians and between the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="5093">What will be our fate, I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="5094">You have to do something. </sentence><sentence id="5095">You have to go to the Committee of the Czechoslovakians." </sentence><sentence id="5096">And... and I said, "Please leave me out. </sentence><sentence id="5097">I was sweeping enough. </sentence><sentence id="5098">Let somebody sweep." </sentence><sentence id="5099">And, you know, that's a song like that... (singing) "that I sweeped already enough." </sentence><sentence id="5100">Anyway, so she said, "But this is the last time you have to do something." </sentence><sentence id="5101">So I went there...(laughter) I went there to the Committee; and I said, "I heard that you are sending away the Czech girls, but you are not sending the Jewish girls." </sentence><sentence id="5102">And...and he said, "We haven't got enough <span class="spatial object">trucks</span>." </sentence><sentence id="5103">And I put my hand on the <span class="spatial object">table</span>, and I hit the <span class="spatial object">table</span> so that the papers all jumped up. </sentence><sentence id="5104">And I said, "If I would be a cousin of President BeneSS, then would be <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> for me. </sentence><sentence id="5105">But because I am not, I am only a Jewess who was a very good citizens for the <span class="country">Czechoslovak Republic</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5106">We been honest and right citizens, and you threw us out like rubbish. </sentence><sentence id="5107">And now, after the war, you don't take us back? </sentence><sentence id="5108">This is not fair." </sentence><sentence id="5109">And he got up; and he says, "I am the cousin of President Bene." </sentence><sentence id="5110">And I said, "Then you are going <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5111">But we are going to stay here?" </sentence><sentence id="5112">And he looked at me and he says, "The first <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> which arrive, you will be on it." </sentence><sentence id="5113">I came there; and they say, "Oh, Magda, you saved us again!" </sentence><sentence id="5114">And that's how it finished up. </sentence><sentence id="5115">And that goes the story now, which is not important, how I meet my husband. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5196">Q: No. </sentence><sentence id="5197">I'd like to hear that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5200">A: You would like to hear it? </sentence><sentence id="5201">So we arrived in <span class="populated place">Prague</span>, and I announced right away I want to <span class="country">Palestine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5202">I didn't...1 didn't even think on <span class="populated place">Bela</span>, or something. </sentence><sentence id="5203">But I thought, "I am going to <span class="country">Palestine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5204">I'm not staying in this place where they threw me out like dirty linen." </sentence><sentence id="5205">So while I am signing all the papers I am going to <span class="country">Palestine</span> and everything, from far away--because it was a huge <span class="interior space">room</span> and there was hundreds of people there--somebody screams. </sentence><sentence id="5206">I know he was a doctor, and I know from what <span class="populated place">town</span> he is. </sentence><sentence id="5207">And I don't know how he knew; but he says, "Bela is alive!" </sentence><sentence id="5208">Bela is alive. </sentence><sentence id="5209">Fine. </sentence><sentence id="5210">And um...and he said, "You should go after him." </sentence><sentence id="5211">But he screamed that over hundreds of people, you know. ( </sentence><sentence id="5212">Laughter) He screamed, "Ah..." And I...you know, I listened to that. </sentence><sentence id="5213">And so I...he told me, while...while he told me that I should look after him. </sentence><sentence id="5214">And he told me that he has a sister in a certain place, the first thing I should go there. </sentence><sentence id="5215">When he came <span class="building">home</span>, then... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5232">Q: Which...which...which "he's are we talking about? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5234">A: Pardon? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5236">Q: We're talking about <span class="populated place">Bela</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5238">A: Bela! </sentence><sentence id="5239">When Bela came <span class="building">home</span> to <span class="populated place">Prague</span>, so girls told him on the <span class="building">station</span>, "Magda is <span class="building">home</span> in her <span class="populated place">home town</span>." </sentence><sentence id="5240">Everyone told him that 1 am <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5241">They saw me here. </sentence><sentence id="5242">They saw me there. </sentence><sentence id="5243">They saw me there, and they saw me there. </sentence><sentence id="5244">So as he heard that I am <span class="building">home</span>, so off he went to my <span class="populated place">hometown</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5245">Meantime, because he said the first thing I should go to his sister's place, so I went there. </sentence><sentence id="5246">I am coming there; and they said, "But he is looking for you in your <span class="populated place">hometown</span>!" </sentence><sentence id="5247">Anyway...so I was there a few days, and then I went to my <span class="populated place">hometown</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5248">I'm going <span class="building">home</span>, and he is coming back. ( </sentence><sentence id="5249">Laughter) When he came back and found that I went <span class="building">home</span>, so he wrote me a letter. </sentence><sentence id="5250">And I should straight away come, because he... So...so I came back to _ilina, was the name; but I felt very awkward to live at his sister place, who didn't know me ever. </sentence><sentence id="5251">And...and I had there some friends from my <span class="populated place">hometown</span>, so I went to live there. </sentence><sentence id="5252">I thought, ""Til Bela comes <span class="building">home</span>, I don't want strange people." </sentence><sentence id="5253">But his nephew, who was twelve years old, he came to pick me up. </sentence><sentence id="5254">And he said, "You know, Magda, my uncle loves you very much." ( </sentence><sentence id="5255">Laughter) He is...he was a tall boy for twelve. </sentence><sentence id="5256">And he says, "And he is the best man on the world. </sentence><sentence id="5257">So please don't run away from here, because he will be very unhappy. </sentence><sentence id="5258">So come with me, and wait till he is coming <span class="building">home</span>." </sentence><sentence id="5259">And that child didn't move "til I didn't go with him. </sentence><sentence id="5260">And he was going with me to swimming, to exercise, to um the pictures, whatever, "til Bela did came <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5261">And so then L...that night I stayed at their place, and at night Bela came <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5262">And then he saw me, he grabbed me in his hand, run around in...in a...in the... Because he was happy. </sentence><sentence id="5263">And that's we...how we met; and the rest is not so important anymore. </sentence><sentence id="5264">But that's how we met anyway. </sentence><sentence id="5265">And um that, matter of fact, I think finishes up. </sentence><sentence id="5266">Because there was so many other stories, which I go away for hours. </sentence><sentence id="5267">But I think the most you heard. </sentence><sentence id="5268">You heard enough. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5301">Q: When did you--just tell us, briefly--after the war about when you and Bela married and when you moved to <span class="country">Israel</span> and then to... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5303">A: Yeah. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5305">Q: Just bring us through to the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5307">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="5308">When, when we...when we met then, then I said, "I'm not going to stay here. </sentence><sentence id="5309">We have to move away from here." </sentence><sentence id="5310">So we went first up to <span class="populated place">Prague</span>, and we booked in the <span class="building">hotel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5311">He, meantime--that's why he went away, because he wanted to earn a few...few crowns that he would have. </sentence><sentence id="5312">And because for those who been in <span class="populated place">camp</span>, there was a possibility to get somewhere...like to settle, to start. </sentence><sentence id="5313">A new start, because we didn't have a penny. </sentence><sentence id="5314">So, so we went. </sentence><sentence id="5315">But Bela, being as he was--broken down, lost his wife and child--and something broke in him. </sentence><sentence id="5316">He didn't have that really business sense, or... So he didn't pick a big <span class="building">factory</span>, or big <span class="building">shop</span> or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="5317">He picked a little...in a little <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5318">On the end of the <span class="populated place">town</span>, a little <span class="building">house</span> which used to here have a woman whose husband was working and she was doing the repairs and meantime she was selling something. </sentence><sentence id="5319">A little... So when...when I saw that what he choosed--because he wanted away from people, you know? </sentence><sentence id="5320">He suddenly didn't want to see many people. </sentence><sentence id="5321">So I...I told myself, "That little place! </sentence><sentence id="5322">Couldn't he pick something bigger, that we should have a chance?" </sentence><sentence id="5323">Because it was all empty. </sentence><sentence id="5324">We had to run away for material, and...and get things done. </sentence><sentence id="5325">And ...and you know that place had <span class="dlf">stairs</span> like that. </sentence><sentence id="5326"><span class="dlf">Spiral stairs</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5327">So I had run up and be in the <span class="building">shop</span> and cook. </sentence><sentence id="5328">And...and...and sometimes customers came in, and...and I was running down. </sentence><sentence id="5329">And I said, "Don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="5330">You can't touch anything, because everything is on <span class="dlf">wire</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5331">And when you touch anything, it's...daughter) it's um ...the bells are ringing <span class="interior space">upstairs</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5332">So, and tell it to everybody," I said. </sentence><sentence id="5333">Sometimes I had to go up; but I know, and then I know. </sentence><sentence id="5334">And, you know, you can tell people and they believe you. </sentence><sentence id="5335">And they believed me. </sentence><sentence id="5336">Anyway, so they didn't touch anything. </sentence><sentence id="5337">And um so we started to work it up. </sentence><sentence id="5338">But, you know, because really with hard work and with friendliness, with our personality, we brought people from...from the <span class="populated place">town</span> to the end of the <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5339">And so we started to do a little prospering. </sentence><sentence id="5340">And then I was um pregnant with my first child...was our first child. </sentence><sentence id="5341">And when I was in <span class="building">hospital</span> even... This time, in <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>, they made, you know, from feathers a little...like um feather [<span class="spatial object">bed</span>] and this is like--like I said--like a wurst, and here it gets over and you have to attach things. </sentence><sentence id="5342">And the baby is inside; and here is lace around. </sentence><sentence id="5343">And when Maya was born, so baby...Bela made it up and brought in. </sentence><sentence id="5344">And there was a woman who didn't have that thing, and she liked it very much. </sentence><sentence id="5345">So Bela said, because he was so happy, he will make [for] her. </sentence><sentence id="5346">But then it come to pay, because he didn't have it for nothing. </sentence><sentence id="5347">So worked out that her husband is a very high um in this <span class="building">business</span> to checking everything; and...so he didn't want to pay. </sentence><sentence id="5348">And when Bela demanded he should pay, so he send a committee and they gave us a punishment. </sentence><sentence id="5349">A financial big punishment. </sentence><sentence id="5350">Imagine! </sentence><sentence id="5351">I said, "Bela, you see how it happens. </sentence><sentence id="5352">When you're good and good-hearted, somebody--not that he doesn't say thank you because you made it for his child. </sentence><sentence id="5353">He makes us all our saving and our hard work went on...on it." </sentence><sentence id="5354">And here we been, and somebody on top of it was jealous because we brought all the customers there. </sentence><sentence id="5355">He wanted that <span class="building">shop</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5356">So they took away the <span class="building">shop</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5357">So then I went again to <span class="populated place">Prague</span> to demand that what happened, and with no reason they took it away. </sentence><sentence id="5358">So we gave another <span class="building">shop</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5359">But now was the question that they wanted...it came a change, and they wanted Bela to be a member of the Communist Party. </sentence><sentence id="5360">He didn't want to be. </sentence><sentence id="5361">So they closed him out from the party, without being in the party. </sentence><sentence id="5362">And they said...again they take all the business away, because if he is not a member... So I said, "What you mean?" </sentence><sentence id="5363">They said, "You can have it, if you divorce him." </sentence><sentence id="5364">So again...so we had a lot of bad luck like that. </sentence><sentence id="5365">The fate wanted to see how much I can endure. </sentence><sentence id="5366">And naturally then we got another little... I was running after this member and this member, and we got another little business. </sentence><sentence id="5367">But Bela had to travel, and it didn't bring much money. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5430">Q: When did you go to <span class="country">Israel</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5432">A: And then I decided...[ said, "Look. </sentence><sentence id="5433">You...you are not a communist. </sentence><sentence id="5434">And whatever will be, they will find out a reasons of you." </sentence><sentence id="5435">And they was...did find out. </sentence><sentence id="5436">They said that he wants to overthrow the government; which I said, "I didn't know he was so smart." ( </sentence><sentence id="5437">Laughter) I said that to that man who...who said it. " </sentence><sentence id="5438">I didn't know my husband is so smart." </sentence><sentence id="5439">You know, I could always talk. </sentence><sentence id="5440">But um...but that didn't help me. </sentence><sentence id="5441">And then <span class="country">Israel</span> started, so I said, "We are going to <span class="country">Israel</span>." </sentence><sentence id="5442">All my life, I wanted to go. </sentence><sentence id="5443">All my friends and relatives said, "In this time, beginning with a baby of one and a half and three, you are going to <span class="country">Israel</span>? </sentence><sentence id="5444">You know where you will live? </sentence><sentence id="5445">In <span class="building">tents</span> on the <span class="env feature">sand</span>." </sentence><sentence id="5446">I said, "I don't mind. </sentence><sentence id="5447"><span class="country">Israel</span> was um born, and we belong there." </sentence><sentence id="5448">They said, "But you can't...you can come with us first to <span class="country">Australia</span>, and then go to visit <span class="country">Israel</span> when you made already money." </sentence><sentence id="5449">And I said, "If everybody would say it, where would <span class="country">Israel</span> be?" </sentence><sentence id="5450">So I think, "I'm going:" and we went. </sentence><sentence id="5451">And naturally we was being in the <span class="populated place">camp</span> in the <span class="building">tents</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5452">Wasn't the best thing. </sentence><sentence id="5453">So the only thing was that L..I uh said that I want a <span class="building">kindergarten</span> job. </sentence><sentence id="5454">So I went to the <span class="building">directress</span>, and I said, "Would you give me a <span class="building">kindergarten</span> job?" </sentence><sentence id="5455">And she said, "Can you speak Hebrew?" </sentence><sentence id="5456">I said, "A few words." </sentence><sentence id="5457">But he [NB: she] said, "So how do you want to be a kindergarten teacher?" </sentence><sentence id="5458">I said, "Did Danny Kaye talk with all the children, with all the <span class="country">nations</span> which he didn't know the language? </sentence><sentence id="5459">So I will be!" </sentence><sentence id="5460">So she looked at me. " </sentence><sentence id="5461">I give you a chance. </sentence><sentence id="5462">I go in that <span class="populated place">camp</span>, and I take all the teachers out and the helpers. </sentence><sentence id="5463">And you go in. </sentence><sentence id="5464">If you survive ten minutes, you get it." </sentence><sentence id="5465">I went in; and in ten minutes, the children was on the <span class="interior space">floor</span> and on top of me. </sentence><sentence id="5466">And we been laughing and giggling. </sentence><sentence id="5467">So she say, "Ah, have it!" </sentence><sentence id="5468">She made, "Oh, have it." </sentence><sentence id="5469">So that's how I got a job. </sentence><sentence id="5470">And I need a job most of it because the food wasn't made for Europeans. </sentence><sentence id="5471">It was made for Africans. </sentence><sentence id="5472">And for a little baby of one and a half, she started to get sick. </sentence><sentence id="5473">But then I...as I was on the staff, so I got the food of the staff. </sentence><sentence id="5474">And, you know, a mother is never hungry when it comes to it. </sentence><sentence id="5475">And I said, "Could I take the food to her <span class="building">home</span>, when I will be hungry?" </sentence><sentence id="5476">She said, "By all means. </sentence><sentence id="5477">Take it!" </sentence><sentence id="5478">And so I brought the food <span class="building">home</span>, divide it between the children and Bela, and what was left was mine. </sentence><sentence id="5479">I was so skinny... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5529">Q: We need to move a bit. </sentence><sentence id="5530">When did you come to <span class="country">Australia</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5533">A: Um first...and then we went to live in um <span class="populated place">Holon</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5534">And then again I put um my <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> out, brought a <span class="building">kindergarten</span> in; and then again the <span class="building">kindergarten</span> out and the <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> in. </sentence><sentence id="5535">And Bela had to go always to the <span class="building">military service</span>, which he didn't like very much because he wasn't as young anymore. </sentence><sentence id="5536">And one stage, he was there for a month. </sentence><sentence id="5537">And it was terrible; and they been attacked and then it was it was wet and everything. </sentence><sentence id="5538">And meantime, my cousins from <span class="country">Australia</span> send the papers. " </sentence><sentence id="5539">Come to <span class="country">Australia</span>." </sentence><sentence id="5540">And Bela came <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5541">He said, "Send the papers." </sentence><sentence id="5542">My cousins wrote, "You have to wait anyway for two years, so...so then send it quick as possible." </sentence><sentence id="5543">We send the papers; but a fluke luck, in six weeks we had the papers to move. </sentence><sentence id="5544">So that's...in "65 we went to <span class="country">Australia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5545">But again, without a penny; because the place what we had we sold, and that was just enough for our journey. </sentence><sentence id="5546">We arrived again penniless. </sentence><sentence id="5547">So, again a hard time. </sentence><sentence id="5548">Hard time all the time. </sentence><sentence id="5549">But I never lost faith. </sentence><sentence id="5550">We brought our children up in a very good way, and they are...they... Because they had to work. </sentence><sentence id="5551">They had to help me to clean to the place where the children... And they helped. </sentence><sentence id="5552">They had to wash the <span class="interior space">floors</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5553">And the neighbors said they know better the bottom of my children than the faces.(Laughter) And that's happened. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5576">Q: Magda, thank you. </sentence><sentence id="5577">You had a statement you wanted to read. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5580">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="5581">Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5584">Q: We wanted to know the effect of the war on you, and I think your statement does that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5586">A: Yah. </sentence><sentence id="5587">Must still be a little wet. </sentence><sentence id="5588">Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="5589">Can I take my glasses? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5594">Q: Sure can. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="5596"> PAUSE </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5597">A: (Reading from paper) My number is 2318. </sentence><sentence id="5598">Under this number, I survived and endured unbelievable dehumanizations, beatings, screams. </sentence><sentence id="5599">I suffered all kind of sicknesses. </sentence><sentence id="5600">I had malaria. </sentence><sentence id="5601">My Lager sisters took me to the <span class="building">Revier</span> (kind of <span class="building">hospital</span>), so I could at least rest a little. </sentence><sentence id="5602">But rats been running around me, biting on my toes. </sentence><sentence id="5603">So I asked my lager sisters to discharge me rather to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5604">The same day, unfortunately, the whole Revier been sent to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5605">I had typhoid, and all different sicknesses. </sentence><sentence id="5606">As a consequence, I lost my eyesight, my hearing. </sentence><sentence id="5607">I couldn't walk. </sentence><sentence id="5608">I was many times close to be sent to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5609">By one occasion, I was one the <span class="dlf">track</span> together with other victims on the way to the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5610">Against all the odds, I lived through three and a half years; first in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, then in <span class="populated place">Birkenau</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5611">My hair been cut many times, with blunt scissors so after my head was always bruised. </sentence><sentence id="5612">On a <span class="spatial object">chair</span>, (looking up) I was telling you already that, (reading from paper) um while laughing men been cutting or shaving everywhere where hair was. </sentence><sentence id="5613">On SS order, all my possessions were taken away. </sentence><sentence id="5614">And I was dipped in murky <span class="env feature">water</span> in large <span class="spatial object">bins</span>, ten at a time. </sentence><sentence id="5615">Then I stood wet and naked, shaking in the wintery cold "til I got remnants after the Russian prisoner of wars. </sentence><sentence id="5616">Cotton pants and top. </sentence><sentence id="5617">On mine, all the buttons been missing; so I have to hold the top and bottom with my hands, not to lose them. </sentence><sentence id="5618">And a pair of wooden clogs. </sentence><sentence id="5619">Before I start to tell my story, I wanted to mention this part as a start. </sentence><sentence id="5620">Because there are people, some writers, professors, scientist, who from unbelievable reason try to deny that the Holocaust existed. </sentence><sentence id="5621">They try to say Holocaust was only a hoax. </sentence><sentence id="5622">Unfortunately, all the barbarism of the German SS, sadism, deceiving, the cruelty, was true. </sentence><sentence id="5623">Believe me. </sentence><sentence id="5624">Often I feel I should ask from all those people why are they doing it. </sentence><sentence id="5625">Wasn't there enough our suffering? </sentence><sentence id="5626">And now, on top of...on top those people claiming it should have the last laugh? </sentence><sentence id="5627">And a lot of followers? </sentence><sentence id="5628">So I turn to you, all parents, to all the teachers, professors, scientists, preachers, priests, rabbis. </sentence><sentence id="5629">Educate the children, the people, about those horrors that the <span class="country">German nation</span> under the Nazi system did to all other <span class="country">nations</span>, not only Jews. </sentence><sentence id="5630">I been witnessing that, nobody was excepted...exception. ( </sentence><sentence id="5631">Pause) Make the wrong right. </sentence><sentence id="5632">Be understanding and helpful to those survivors. </sentence><sentence id="5633">It's not right not to talk about it for shame or frustration. </sentence><sentence id="5634">Some will say, "It happened a long time ago--forty-five, fifty years ago. </sentence><sentence id="5635">Let's forget it." </sentence><sentence id="5636">But on the other side, they continue on thousands of places to preach two thousand years history about the <span class="populated place">Golgotha</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5637">Don't believe those so-called professionals whose informations are coming from, to me, unknown sources who have the reason and own interests. </sentence><sentence id="5638">And who, for a lot of money, tried to persuade the world about the non-existence of the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="5639">But would and could you, and you, and you, forget it, if you would live through all the horrors which changed your life, your career? </sentence><sentence id="5640">We're tormented by nightmares. </sentence><sentence id="5641">When you close your eyes, you relive the misery again and again. </sentence><sentence id="5642">So you don't even go to sleep. </sentence><sentence id="5643">And how about the millions and millions of babies, young, innocent children, people young and old? </sentence><sentence id="5644">So, please! </sentence><sentence id="5645">Don't minimize the Holocaust as a old story. </sentence><sentence id="5646">But try to work against it, that happenings like the Holocaust shouldn't have <span class="env feature">ground</span> to happen again ever. ( </sentence><sentence id="5647">Looking up) Finish. </sentence><sentence id="5648">That's it. </sentence><sentence id="5649">Hmmm? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5704">Q: Beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="5705">OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5708">A: OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| <dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="5710">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="5711">That's it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
| </body> |
| </html> |
