Nice.

OK.

to to handle.

Is that good?

Right. Yeah, I've have never handled them.

Goats eat cans, to my understanding. Tin cans.

Did we need to do these things?

Wow.

OK.

Could I hit hit F - seven to do that? on the Robert?

I'm

Oh, the remote will do it OK.

OK.

Cuz I'm already up there?

in control here.

You are in control. Already?

Wow, we're all so high tech here. Yet another p PowerPoint presentation.

I Well it makes it easier to do

Certainly does.

So, we were Ah!

Johno, where are you?

OK. So, Let's see. Which one of these buttons will do this for me? Aha! OK.

Should you go back to the first one?

Do I wanna go back to the first one?

Well.

OK.

I'm sorry I.

Well, I mean, just to.

OK. Introduce.

OK.

Yeah, um Well, " the search for the middle layer ". It's basically uh talks about uh It just refers to the fact that uh one of main things we had to do was to decide what the intermediate sort of nodes were,

I can read! I'm kidding.

you know, because.

Mm - hmm.

But if you really want to find out what it's about you have to click on the little light bulb.

Although I've I've never I don't know what the light bulb is for. I didn't i install that into my PowerPoint presentation.

It opens the Assistant that tells you that the font type is too small.

Ah.

Do you wanna try?

Ach u

I'd prefer not to.

OK. Continue.

It's a needless good idea. Is that the idea?

Why are you doing this in this mode and not in the presentation mode?

OK.

Because I'm gonna switch to the JavaBayes program

Oh! OK. Of course. Mm - hmm.

and then if I do that it'll mess everything up.

I was wondering.

Is that OK?

Yeah, it's OK.

Sure.

Can you maximize the window?

Proceed.

You want me to Wait, what do you want me to do?

Can you maximize the window so all that stuff on the side isn't doesn't appear?

No, It's OK. It's It'll work.

Well I can do that, but then I have to end the presentation in the middle so I can go back to open up

OK, fine.

Here, let's see if I can.

Alright.

Very nice.

Is that better? OK.

Yeah.

Uh I'll also get rid of this " Click to add notes ". OK.

Perfect.

So then the features we decided or we decided we were talked about, right? Uh the the prosody, the discourse, verb choice. You know. We had a list of things like " to go " and " to visit " and what not. The " landmark - iness " of uh I knew you'd like that.

Nice coinage.

Thank you. uh, of a of a building. Whether the and this i we actually have a separate feature but I decided to put it on the same line for space. " Nice walls " which we can look up because I mean if you're gonna get real close to a building in the Tango mode, right, there's gotta be a reason for it. And it's either because you're in route to something else or you wanna look at the walls. The context, which in this case we've limited to " business person ", " tourist ", or " unknown ", the time of day, and " open to suggestions ", isn't actually a feature. It's " We are open to suggestions. "

Right. can I just ask the nice walls part of it is that uh, in this particular domain you said be i it could be on two different lines but are you saying that in this particular domain it happens the that landmark - iness cor is correlated with

Oh.

No. We have a separate

They're separate things.

feature.

their being nice w

Yeah.

OK.

I either could put " nice walls " on its own line or " open to suggestions " off the slide.

Like you could have a p

And and By " nice " you mean.

You Like you could have a post office with uh you know, nice murals or something.

Right.

OK.

Or one time I was at this.

So " nice walls " is a stand in for like architecturally it, uh significant

But see the thing is, if it's.

Architecturally appealing from the outside.

or something like that. OK.

Yeah but if it's architecturally significant you might be able to see it from Like you m might be able to " Vista " it,

Mm - hmm.

right? And be able to.

Appreciate it.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah, versus, like, I was at this place in Europe where they had little carvings of, like, dead people on the walls or something.

Mm - hmm.

I don't remember w

Uh - huh.

It was a long time ago.

There's a lot of those.

But if you looked at it real close, you could see the the in intricacy of the of the walls.

OK. So that count as counts as a nice wall.

Mm - hmm.

Right.

The OK. Right.

The.

Something you want to inspect at close range because it's interesting.

Exactly.

OK.

Hmm.

Robert?

Well there there is a term that's often used. That's " saliency ", or the " salience " of an object. And I was just wondering whether that's the same as what you describe as " landmark - iness ". But it's really not. I mean an object can be very salient

Hmm.

but not a landmark at all.

Not a landmark at all. There's landmark for um, touristic reasons and landmark for I don't know navigational reasons or something.

Yep.

Right.

Yeah, we meant, uh, touristic reasons.

Yeah.

OK.

Hmm.

Right.

OK. but you can imagine maybe wanting the oth both kinds of things there for different um, goals.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Right.

Right?

But Yeah. Tourist - y landmarks also happen to be Wouldn't couldn't they also be They're not exclusive groups, are they? Like non - tourist - y landmarks and

Or it can be als

direct navigational.

They're not mutually exclusive?

Yeah.

Right.

OK.

Right. Definitely.

OK, So our initial idea was not very satisfying, because uh our initial idea was basically all the features pointing to the output node. Uh.

So, a big flat structure.

Right.

Right?

Yep.

And uh, so we Reasons being, you know, it'd be a pain to set up all the probabilities for that. If we moved onto the next step and did learning of some sort, uh according Bhaskara we'd be handicapped. I don't know belief - nets very well.

Well usually, I mean, you know, N If you have N features, then it's two to the N or exponential in N.

And they wouldn't look pretty. So.

Yeah, they'd all be like pointing to the one node.

Mm - hmm.

Uh. So then our next idea was to add a middle layer, right? So the thinking behind that was we have the features that we've drawn from the communication of some Like, the someone s The person at the screen is trying to communicate some abstract idea, like " I'm " the the abstract idea being " I am a tourist I want to go to this place. " Right? So we're gonna set up features along the lines of where they want to go and what they've said previously and whatnot. And then we have the means that they should use. Right? but the middle thing, we were thinking along the lines of maybe trying to figure out, like, the concept of whether they're a tourist or whether they're running an errand or something like that along those lines. Or Yes, we could things we couldn't extract the from the data, the hidden variables. Yes, good. So then the hidden variables hair variables we came up with were whether someone was on a tour, running an errand, or whether they were in a hurry, because we were thinking uh, if they were in a hurry there'd be less likely to like or th

Want to do Vista,

Right.

right? Because if you want to view things you wouldn't be in a hurry.

Or they might be more likely to be using the place that they want to go to as a like a navigational point to go to another place.

Mm - hmm.

Whether the destination was their final destination, whether the destination was closed. Those are all And then " Let's look at the belief - net "  OK. So that means that I should switch to the other program. Um right now it's still kind of in a toy version of it, because we didn't know the probabilities of or Well I'll talk about it when I get the picture up.

No one knows it.

OK. So this right what we Let's see. What happens if I maximize this? There we go. But uh So. The mode basically has three different outputs. The probability whether the probability of a Vista, Tango, or Enter. Um The " context ", we simplified. Basically it's just the businessman, the tourist, unknown. " Verb used " is actually personally amusing mainly because it's it's just whether the verb is a Tango verb, an Enter verb, or a Vista verb.

Yeah, that one needs a lot of.

And are those mutually exclusive sets?

No.

Not at all. That's that that needs a lot of work.

Right.

But uh that would've made the probably significantly be more complicated to enter,

Got it. Uh - huh.

so we decided that for the purposes of this it'd be simpler to just have three verbs.

Yeah. Simple.

Yeah.

Stab at it. Yep.

Right. Um Why don't you mention things about this, Bhaskara, that I am not that are not coming to my mind right now.

OK, so Yeah, so note the four nodes down there, the sort of, the things that are not directly extracted. Actually, the five things. The " closed " is also not directly extracted I guess, from the uh.

Well i it's.

Hmm.

From the utterance?

it's so it sort of is

Actually, no, wait.

because it's because have the the time of day

It is. OK, " closed " sort of is.

and the close it just had the er and what time it closed.

Right, so f Right, but the other ones, the final destination, the whether they're doing business, whether they're in a hurry, and whether they're tourists, that kind of thing is all uh sort of you know probabilistically depends on the other things.

Inferred from the other ones?

Yeah.

OK.

And the mode, you know, depends on all those things only.

Yeah the the actual parse is somewhere up around in here.

Yeah. So we haven't uh, managed Like we don't have nodes for " discourse " and " parse ", although like in some sense they are parts of this belief - net.

Mm - hmm.

But uh The idea is that we just extract those features from them, so we don't actually have a node for the entire parse,

Mm - hmm.

Right.

because we'd never do inference on it anyway, so.

So some of the the top row of things What's what's " Disc admission fee "?

whether they discuss the admission fees. So we looked at the data and in a lot of data people were saying things like " Can I get to this place? "

Oh.

" What is the admission fee? ". So that's like a huge uh clue that they're trying to Enter the place rather than uh to Tango or Vista,

Uh - huh.

Right.

OK.

so.

I see.

There were there'd be other things besides just the admission fee, but you know, we didn't have.

Mm - hmm.

That was like our example.

Mm - hmm.

That was the initial one that we found.

OK. So there are certain cues that are very strong either lexical or topic - based um, concept cues

From the discourse that Yeah.

for one of those. And then in that second row or whatever that row of Time of Day through that So all of those Some of them come from the utterance and some of them are sort of either world knowledge or situational things.

Right.

Right? So that you have no distinction between those and OK.

One, uh Uh. Um, anything else you want to say Bhaskara?

Um.

" Unmark @ @ Time of Day "

Yeah, I m I mean.

Yeah. They're they're are a couple of more things.

One thing uh.

I mean Uh. I would actually suggest we go through this one more time so we we all uh, agree on what what the meaning of these things is at the moment and maybe what changes we.

Yeah, th OK. so one thing I I'm you know unsure about, is how we have the discus uh the " admission fee " thing set up. So one thing that we were thinking was by doing the layers like this, Uh we kept um things from directly affecting the mode beyond the concept, but you could see perhaps discus the " admission fee " going directly to the mode pointing at " Enter ",

Mm - hmm.

right? Versus pointing to just at " tourist ",

Mm - hmm.

OK?

Mm - hmm.

But we just decided to keep all the things we extracted to point at the middle and then down.

Mm - hmm. Why is the landmark OK. The landmark is facing to the tourists. That's because we're talking about landmarks as touristic landmarks not as possible um

Right.

Yeah.

Navigational landmarks,

Navigational cue.

navigational landmarks

yeah.

so Mm - hmm. Then.

Yeah, that would be whatever building they referred to.

Prosody.

Right. So let's see. The variables.

Mm - hmm.

Disc - " admission fee " is a binary thing, " time of day " is like morning, afternoon, night. Is that the deal? Yeah.

That's how we have it currently set up,

Yep.

but it could be, you know, based upon hour

Yeah. Yeah.

Whatever granularity.

or dis we could discrete it des descret - ize it.

Yeah.

Uh - huh.

Yeah.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah. Normally context will include a huge amount of information, but um, we are just using the particular part of the context which consists of the switch that they flick to indicate whether they're a tourist or not, I guess.

Yep.

OK. So that's given in their input.

Right.

So Right,

Right?

so it's not really all of context. Similarly prosody is not all of prosody but simply for our purposes whether or not they appear tense or relaxed.

Mm - hmm. that's very nice, huh?

OK.

The the So the context is a switch between tourist or non - tourist?

and

Or also unknown?

Or un unknown,

OK.

yeah.

Yeah. Unknown, right?

So final dest So it seems like that would really help you for doing business versus tourist,

Which is th Which one?

but OK. so the the context being um, e I don't know if that question's sort of in general, " are you " I mean the ar ar are do they allow business people to be doing non - business things at the moment?

Yeah, it does.

OK. So then you just have some probabilities over.

Everything is probablistic, and There's always.

OK. over which which of those it is.

Yeah. Um, right. So then landmark is Oh, sorry. " Verb used " is like, right now we only have three values, but in general they would be a probability distribution over all verbs.

Mm - hmm.

Rather, let me rephrase that. It it can take values in the set of all verbs, that they could possibly use.

Mm - hmm.

Um " nice walls " is binary, " closed " is binary " final destination ", again Yeah, all those are binary I guess. And " mode " is one of three things.

So, the the middle layer is also binary? No.

Yeah, anything with a question mark after it in that picture is a binary node.

Uh. It Yeah. But all those things without question marks are also binary. Right?

Which things?

Nice walls?

Wi

Mm - hmm.

Oh. " Nice walls " is uh something that we extract from our world knowledge.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah, a Oh yeah. Sorry. It is binary.

It is binary but it doesn't have question mark because it's extracted.

That's true. Yeah. OK, I see your point.

Yeah. OK.

Yeah.

I I gotcha.

Uh - huh.

Yeah, similarly " closed ", I guess.

So we can either be in a hurry or not, but we cannot be in a medium hurry at the moment?

Well, we To do that we would add another uh value for that.

Mm - hmm. OK.

And that would require s updating the probability distribution for " mode " as well.

Mm - hmm.

Because it would now have to like uh take that possibility into account.

Mm - hmm. Take a conti

Mm - hmm.

So um, of course this will happen when we think more about the kinds of verbs that are used in each cases

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

but you can imagine that it's verb plus various other things that are also not in the bottom layer that would that would help you Like it's a conjunction of, I don't know, you know, the verb used and some other stuff that that would determine.

Right. Other syntactic information you mean?

Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah.

Um.

well the the sort of the landmark is is sort of the object right? the argument in a sense?

Usually. I I don't know if that's always the case I I guess haven't looked at the data as much as you guys have. So. Um.

that's always warping on something some entity,

Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.

and um Uh maybe at this stage we will we do want to uh sort of get uh modifiers in there

Hmm. Yeah.

because they may also tell us whether the person is in a hurry or not

I want to get to the church quickly,

Yeah.

Mm - hmm.

and uh.

Yeah, right.

That would be a cue.

what's the fastest way

Yeah, correct.

Mm - hmm. Um. OK.

Right. Excellent. Do we have anything else to say about this?

We can do a little demo.

Oh the Yeah, we could. But the demo doesn't work very well.

No, then it wouldn't be a demo I was just gonna s

I mean We can do a demo in the sense that we can um, just ob observe the fact that this will, in fact do inference.

Observe nodes.

So we can, you know, set some of the uh nodes and then try to find the probability of other nodes.

Yeah. Go ahead.

OK. Dat - dat - dah. What should I observe?

Just se set a few of them. You don't have to do the whole thing that we did last time. Just like uh, maybe the fact that they use a certain verb.

OK.

Actually forget the verb.

OK.

just uh I don't know, say they discussed the admission fee.

OK.

and uh the place has nice walls

I love nice walls, OK? I'm a big fan.

and it's night.

it's starting to grow on me

And the time of day is night?

Yeah, no wait. That that doesn't uh it's not really consistent. They don't discuss the admission fee. Make that false.

Alright.

And it's night.

Oh, they OK. Oh whoops. I forgot to uh.

That didn't work.

Ach!

I'd like to do that again.

One thing that bugs me about JavaBayes is you have to click that and do this.

Yeah. That seems kind of redundant but.

OK.

That all you want?

Yes.

OK. So let's see. I want to query,

" Go " and, right, " query ".

right? the mode. OK, and then on here So let's see.

So that is the probability that they're Entering, Vista - ing or Tango - ing.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah.

And uh.

So slightly biased toward " Tango " ing

Yeah.

If it's night time, they have not discussed admission fee, and the n walls are nice.

OK.

So, yeah. I guess that sort of makes sense. The reason I say the demo doesn't work very well is yesterday we uh observed everything in favor of taking a tour, and it came up as " Tango ", right? Over and over again. We couldn't we couldn't figure out how to turn it off of " Tango ".

So. Uh - huh.

It loves the Tango.

Huh! Um.

Well, that's obviously just to do with our probabilities.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, we totally hand - tuned the probabilities,

Yeah.

right. We were like " hmm, well if the person does this and this and this, let's say forty percent for this,

OK.

fifty per " Like, you know. So obviously that's gonna happen.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah but it it

Maybe the bias toward " Tango " ing was yours, then?

Yeah,

Yeah.

that's that's at.

It's So we have to like fit the probabilities.

Spent my youth practicing the tango de la muerte.

So, the real case?

However you know, it The purpose was not really, at this stage, to come up with meaningful probabilities but to get thinking about that hidden middle layer. And so th

Mm - hmm.

And.

We would actually I guess once we look at the data more we'll get more hidden nodes,

Mm - hmm.

Yeah.

but I'd like to see more. Not because it would expedite the probabilities, cuz it wouldn't. It would actually slow that down tremendously.

Um. Well, yeah, I guess.

But.

Not that much though. Only a little early.

No, I think we should have uh exponentially more middle nodes than features we've extracted. I'm ju I'm just jo

OK.

So. Are " doing business " versus " tourist " They refer to your current task. Like like current thing you want to do at this moment.

Um. Yeah, well That's that's an interesting point. Whether you're It's whether It's not.

And are th

I think it's more like " Are you are tourist? are you in Ham - like Heidelberg for a "

Oh, so, I thought that was directly given by the context switch.

That's a different thing. What if the context, which is not set, but still they say things like, " I want to go uh, see the uh the the castle and uh, et cetera. "

Is it.

Well the I kind of thought of " doing business " as more of running an errand type thing.

Yeah. Business on the other hand is, uh, definitely what you're doing.

So if you run out of cash as a tourist, and and and you need to go to the AT

So i wi th

OK. Oh, I see, you may have a task. wh you have to go get money and so you are doing business at that stage.

Mmm.

Right.

Yeah.

" How do I get to the bank? "

I see. Hmm.

And that'll affect whether you want to enter or you if you kinda thing.

OK. So the " tourists " node should be um, very consistent with the context node. Right? If you say that's more their in general what their background is.

Yeah, I think this context node is a bit of a I don't know, like in d Uh Do we wanna have Like it's.

Are you assuming that or not? Like is that to be I mean if that's accurate then that would determine tourist node.

If the context were to set one way or another, that like strongly uh um, says something about whether whether or not they're tourists.

Mm - hmm.

So what's interesting is when it's not when it's set to " unknown ".

Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.

We - what set the they set the context to " unknown "?

OK.

OK.

Right now we haven't observed it, so I guess it's sort of averaging over all those three possibilities.

Mm - hmm.

Mm - hmm.

Right.

But yes, you can set it to un " unknown ".

And if we now do leave everything else as is the results should be the same,

Oops.

right?

No.

Well no, because we Th - the way we set the probabilities might not have Yeah, it's it's an it's an issue, right? Like.

Pretty much the same?

Yeah, it is. So the issue is that um in belief - nets, it's not common to do what we did of like having, you know, a d bunch of values and then " unknown " as an actual value. What's common is you just like don't observe the variable,

Yeah.

Yep.

right, and then just marginalizes.

Yeah.

But uh We didn't do this because we felt that there'd I guess we were thinking in terms of a switch that actually.

We were thi Yeah,

Mm - hmm.

We were th

But uh I don't know y what the right thing is to do for that. I'm not I don't know if I totally am happy with the way it is.

Why don't we Can we, um How long would it take to to add another node on the observatory and, um, play around with it?

Another node on what?

Uh, well it depends on how many things it's linked to.

Let's just say make it really simple. If we create something that for example would be um So th some things can be landmarks in your sense but they can never be entered? So for example s a statue.

Good point.

Yeah?

Right.

Mm - hmm.

So maybe we wanna have " landmark " meaning now " enterable landmark " versus, um something that's simply just a vista point, for example.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah? uh, a statue or um.

So basically it's addressing a variable that's " enterable or not ". So like an " enterable, question mark ".

Also you know, didn't we have a size as one? The size of the landmark.

What?

Cuz if it's.

Um. Not when we were doing this,

Yeah.

but I guess at some point we did.

For some reason I had that OK, that was a thought that I had at one point but then went away.

So you want to have a a node for like whether or not it can be entered?

Well, for example, if we include that, yeah?

Yeah.

um, accessibility or something, yeah? " Is it Can it be entered? "

Hmm.

then of course, this is sort of binary as well.

Yeah.

And then um, there's also the question whether it may be entered. In the sense that, you know, if it's Tom the house of Tom Cruise, you know, it's enterable but you may not enter it. You know? You're not allowed to.

Yeah.

Unless you are, whatever, his his divorce lawyer or something.

Yeah.

Yeah? and um And these are very observable sort of from the from the ontology sort of things.

Way Does it actually help to distinguish between those two cases though? Whether it's practically speaking enterable, or actually physically enterable or not?

y y If If you're running an errand you maybe more likely to be able to enter places that are usually not al w you're not usually not allowed to uh m

It seems like it would for uh, uh determining whether they wanna go into it or not.

Well I can see why.

Cuz they.

Let's get this uh b clearer. S so it's matrix between if it's not enterable, period.

Whether it's a Whether it's a public building, and whether it's actually has a door.

Yeah, exactly.

OK.

This is sort of uh

So Tom Cruise's house is not a public building

Mm - hmm.

but it has a door. But the thing is.

Mm - hmm.

Right.

OK, sh explain to me why it's necessary to distinguish between whether something has a door and is not public. Or, if something It seems like it's equivalent to say that it doesn't have a door a and it.

Mm - hmm.

Or " not public " and " not a door " are equivalent things,

Yeah.

it seems like in practice.

Right. Yeah. So we would have What does it mean, then, that we have to we have an object type statue. That really is an object type. So there is there's gonna be a bunch of statues.

Right.

And then we have, for example, an object type, hmm, that's a hotel. How about hotels?

OK.

So, the most famous building in Heidelberg is actually a hotel. It's the hotel Zum Ritter, which is the only Renaissance building in Heidelberg that was left after the big destruction and for the Thirty Years War, blah - blah - blah.

Hmm. Does it have nice walls?

It has wonderful walls. Um - And lots of detail, c and carvings, engravings and so forth,

Excellent.

so. But, um, it's still an unlikely candidate for the Tango mode I must say. But. Um. So s So if you are a d Well it's very tricky. So I guess your question is so far I have no really arg no real argument why to differentiate between statues as statues and houses of celebrities, from that point of view. Huh. OK. Let Let's do a Can we add, just so I can see how it's done, uh, a " has door " property or?

OK.

What would it, uh, connect to? Like, what would, uh, it affect?

Um, I think, um, it might affect Oh actually it's it it wouldn't affect any of our nodes, right?

What I was thinking was if you had a like.

Oh it's it affects th The " doing business " is certainly not.

You could affect Theoretically you could affect " doing business " with " has door ".

Yeah. OK.

Hmm.

It should, um, inhibit that,

Right.

Let's see.

right?

Yeah, I don't know if JavaBayes is nice about that. It might be that if you add a new thing pointing to a variable, you just like it just overwrites everything. But you can check.

Well, we have it saved. So. We can rel open it up again.

OK. It's true.

The safety net.

I think you could just add it. I mean, I have before OK. Whew!

Well that's fine, but we have to see the function now. Has it become all point fives or not?

Oh, right.

Let's see. So this is " has door " Uh, true, false. That's acceptable. And I want to edit the function going to that, right? Oh no.

No. This is fine,

Right. It was fine.

this business.

added this one.

Yep.

This.

What would be nice if it is if it just like kept the old function for either value but. Nope. Didn't do it.

Oh.

Oh wait, it might be Did we w Yes, that's not good.

That's kind of annoying.

OK, so just dis dismiss everything. Close it and and load up the old state so it doesn't screw screw that up.

Let's see. Oops.

Hmm.

Maybe you can read in?

Ha - So have you used JavaBayes a lot?

Yes. Really I ha I've I haven't used it a lot and I haven't used it in the last you know many months so

OK.

um, uh, we can ask someone.

It might be worth uh asking around.

Um.

Like, we looked at sort of uh a page that had like a bunch of.

Yeah. Srini.

OK. Yeah, S I guess he'd be the person.

Srini's the one to ask I would say.

Yeah.

Um. He might know.

Cuz Yeah.

And.

I mean in a way this is a lot of good features in Java it's cra has a GUI and it's uh.

Mm - hmm.

I guess those are the main two things. It does learning, it has.

Mm - hmm.

No it doesn't, actually.

Yeah.

I didn't think it did learning.

What?

Maybe it did a little bit of learning,

OK.

I don't remember.

Oh right. Maybe you're right. OK. Right. But uh it's free.

Which is w quite positive, yeah.

But uh, yeah. Maybe another thing that uh But I mean its interface is not the greatest. So.

But actually it had an interface.

Mm - hmm.

A lot of them were like, you know.

Yep.

Command line.

Huh.

What is the c code? Can w can we see that? How do you write the code

The c

or do you actually never have to write any code there?

Yeah. There is actually a text file that you can edit. But it's You don't have to do that.

There's like an XML format for Bayes - nets.

Is it XML?

The - there is one. I don't know if this uses it.

Oh, I see. No this doesn't use it.

But it.

I didn't think it did.

Yeah, the the.

You can look at the text file.

Yeah.

But do you have it here?

Uh, yes I do actually.

Well, maybe you don't.

Let me see.

Oh yes, of course.

Oh man,

Like, there's the.

I didn't n Is there an ampersand in DOS?

Nope. Just s l start up a new DOS.

We - That's alright. I can probably double cli click on it.

Or Yeah, right.

n uh.

Let's see.

Yep.

Let's see, come on.

It'll ask you what you what it wants what you want to open it with and see what BAT, I guess.

One of these days, it should open this, theoretically.

Go Right mouse. Open with.

Oh there we go.

That's Oh!

Maybe it was just.

Oh.

Oh! W Ah, it was dead. To the world.

God!

OK.

Through the old Notepad. That's my favorite editor.

I like I like Word Pad because it has the uh the returns,

Wordpad? I.

the carriage returns on some of them.

Mm - hmm. OK.

You know how they get " auto - fills " I guess,

Mmm - hmm.

or whatever you call it.

Anyway, there it is.

So this is sort of LISP - y? No.

Uh, Yeah.

It just basically looks like it just specifies a bunch of

Mm - hmm.

Yeah. That's how actual probability tables are specified.

Yeah.

As, like, lists of numbers.

Mm - hmm.

So theoretically you could edit that.

Mm - hmm.

It just that it's.

But they're not very friendly.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah the ordering isn't very clear on.

So you'd have to like figure out Like you have to go and.

Right. The layout of the table.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually we could write a program that could generate this.

Well I Yeah. I think so.

Yeah you could.

You could.

it's not.

We were doing it.

Yeah we can maybe write an interface th for uh entering probability distributions easily, something like like a little script. That might be worth it.

And that might do.

Yeah. I actually seem to recall Srini complaining about something to do with Entering probability so this is probably

The other thing is it is in Java

Yeah, it's Yeah.

so.

We could manipulate the source itself?

Yeah.

Or.

Do you have the true source files or just the class?

I don't know if he actually.

Yeah. Uh, yeah. we do

Does he.

I I saw directory called " source ",

Oh.

Mm - hmm.

I didn't e

or Yeah. Go up one?

Up one. Ah yes, good.

Yeah.

" Source ". That's that's quite nice.

I don't know if it actually manipulate the source, though. That might be a bit complicated.

Mm - hmm.

I think it might it might be simpler to just have a script that, you know It's, like, friendly,

The d the data tables.

it allows you enter things well.

Yeah.

Right.

But if th if there is an XML file that or format that it can also read I mean it just reads this, right? When it starts.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah I know there is an I was looking on the we web page and he's updated it for an XML version of I guess Bayes - nets. There's a Bayes - net spec for in XML.

Mm - hmm.

He's Like this guy has?

Yeah.

The JavaBayes guy? So but, e he doesn't use it. So in what sense has he updated it?

Well th you can either you ca or you can read both.

Oh. I see.

To my understanding.

OK. That would be awesome.

Oh.

Because uh Well at least the uh I could have misread the web page, I have a habit of doing that, but.

OK, wonderful.

OK.

So you got more slides?

Do I have more slides? Um yes, one more. " Future Work ". I think every presentation have a should have a " Future Work " slide. But uh it's basically we already talked about all this stuff, so.

Um. The additional thing is I guess learning the probabilities, also. E That's maybe, I don't know If.

Uh that's future future work.

Does That's Yeah.

Right.

Very future.

Mm - hmm.

And of course if you have a presentation that doesn't have something that doesn't work at all, then you have " What I learned ", as a slide.

Can't you have both?

You could. My first approach failed.

Right.

What I learned. OK, so I think that uh our presentation's finished.

Good.

I know what I like about these meetings is one person will nod, and then the next person will nod, and then it just goes all the way around the room.

So the uh.

I missed my turn.

No I Earlier I went and Bhaskara went and you did it. You did it.

It's like yawning.

It's like yawning.

And this announcement was in stereo.

Ha.

OK. So this means um.

Should I pull up the net again?

Yeah. Could you put the the um, net up again?

Yes. There we go.

Thanks.

And actually I was cuz I got a wireless mike on.

So a more general thing than " discussed admission fee " um, could be I I'm just wondering whether the context, the background context of the discourse might be I don't know, if there's a way to define it or maybe you know generalize it some way um, there might be other cues that, say, um, in the last few utterances there has been something that has strongly associated with say one of the particular modes uh, I don't know if that might be.

Mm - hmm. I think we.

uh, and and into that node would be various various things that that could have specifically come up.

I think a a sort of general strategy here You know, this is this is excellent because um it gets you thinking along these terms is that maybe we ob we could observe a couple of um discourse phenomena such as the admission fee, and something else and something else, that happened in the discourse before.

Mm - hmm. Right.

And um let's make those four. And maybe there are two um So maybe this could be sort of a separate region of the net, which has two has it's own middle layer. Maybe this, you know, has some kind of um, funky thing that di if this and this may influence these hidden nodes of the discourse which is maybe something that is uh, a more general version of the actual phenomenon that you can observe. So things that point towards.

So instead of single node, for like, if they said the word " admission fee ".

Exactly.

" admission fee ", or maybe, you know, " how much to enter "

Yeah.

or you know something, other cues.

Opening hours or something like that.

Exactly. That would all f funnel into one node that would constitute entrance requirements or something like that.

So " pay a visit ".

Mm - hmm.

uh uh d

Sure.

Yeah?

Yeah.

I mean it sort of get into plan recognition kinds of things in the discourse. I mean that's like the bigger um, version of it.

Exactly. Yeah? And then maybe there are some discourse acts if they happened before, um it's more for um a cue that the person actually wants to get somewhere else and that you are in a in a in a route um, sort of proceeding past these things, so this would be just something that where you want to pass it. Hmm? Is that it? However these are of course then the the nodes, the observed nodes, for your middle layer. So this again points to " final destination ", " doing business ", " tourist hurry " and so forth.

Mm - hmm.

OK.

Yeah? And so then we can say, " OK. we have a whole region " in a e

That's a whole set of discourse related cues to your middle layer.

Yeah, exactly. And this is just then just one.

Right?

So e because at the end the more we um add, you know, the more spider - web - ish it's going to become in the middle and the more of hand editing. It's going to get very ugly. But with this way we could say " OK, these are the discourse phenomena. They ra may have there own hidden layer that points to some of the the real hidden layer, um or the general hidden layer.

Sure.

And the same we will be able to do for syntactic information, the verbs used, the object types used, modifiers. And maybe there's a hidden layer for that.

Yep.

And so forth and so forth. Then we have context.

Yeah. So essentially a lot of those nodes can be expanded into little Bayes - nets of their own.

Yep.

Mm - hmm.

Precisely. So.

One thing that's kind of been bugging me when I more I look at this is that the I guess, the fact that the there's a complete separation between the observed features and in the output.

Yeah.

I mean, it makes it cleaner, but then uh I mean.

That's true.

For instance if the discourse does.

What do you mean by that?

well for instance, the " discourse admission fee " node seems like it should point directly to the.

Uh - huh.

or increase the probability of " enter directly " versus " going there via tourist ".

Yeah. Or we could like add more, uh, sort of middle nodes. Like we could add a node like do they want to enter it, which is affected by admission fee and by whether it's closed and by whether it has a door.

Mm - hmm.

Right.

So it's like There are Those are the two options. Either like make an arrow directly or put a new node.

Yeah,

Hmm.

that makes sense.

Yeah. And if it if you do it If you could connect it too hard you may get such phenomenon that like " So how much has it cost to enter? " and the answer is two hundred fifty dollars, and then the persons says um " Yeah I want to see it. " Yeah? meaning " It's way out of my budget " um.

There are places in Germany where it costs two hundred fifty dollars to enter?

Um, nothing comes to mind. Without thinking too hard. Um, maybe, yeah of course, um opera premiers.

Really?

So you know.

Hmm.

Or or any good old Pink Floyd concert.

I see. If you want to see " The Magic Flute " or something.

Yeah.

Or maybe um, a famous restaurant. or, I don't know. There are various things that you might w not want to eat a meal there but your own table.

The Spagos of Heidelberg.

I think that the h I mean nothing beats the the admission charge prices in Japan. So there, two hundred dollars is is moderate for getting into a discotheque. You know. Then again, everything else is free then once you're ins in there.

Really.

Food and drink and so forth. So. I mean. But i you know, i we can Something Somebody can have discussed the admission fee and u the answer is s if we um, you know, um still, based on that result is never going to enter that building.

Hmm.

You know? Because it's just too expensive.

Oh yeah, I think I see. So the discourse refers to " admission fee " but it just turns out that they change their mind in the middle of the discourse.

Yeah. you have to have some notion of not just I mean there's a there's change across several turns of discourse

Right.

Mm - hmm.

so I don't know how if any of this was discussed but how i if it all this is going to interact with whatever general uh, other other discourse processing that might be happen.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah.  Yeah.

I mean.

What sort of discourse processing is uh are the How much is built into SmartKom and.

It works like this. The uh, um I mean. The first thing we get is that already the intention is sort of t They tried to figure out the intention, right? simply by parsing it. And this um m won't differentiate between all modes, yeah? but at least it'll tell us " OK here we have something that somebody that wants to go someplace, now it's up for us to figure out what kind of going there is is is happening, and um, if the discourse takes a couple of turns before everything all the information is needed, what happens is you know the parser parses it and then it's handed on to the discourse history which is, um o one of the most elaborate elaborate modules. It's it's actually the the whole memory of the entire system, that knows what wh who said what, which was what was presented. It helps an an anaphora resolution and it and it fills in all the structures that are omitted, so, um, because you say " OK, how can I get to the castle? " Oh, how how much is it? " and um " yeah I would like uh um to g let's do it " and so forth. So even without an a ana anaphora somebody has to make sure that information we had earlier on is still here.

Mm - hmm.

Because not every module keeps a memory of everything that happened. so whenever the uh, um person is not actually rejecting what happened before, so as in " No I really don't want to see that movie. I'd rather stay home and watch TV " um What movie was selected in what cinema in what town is is going to be sort of added into the disc into the representations every di at each dialogue step, by the discourse model discourse model, Yeah, that's what it's called. and, um, it does some help in the anaphora resolution and it also helps in coordinating the gesture screen issues. So a person pointing to something on the screen, you know, the discourse model actually stores what was presented at what location on the s on the screen

Hmm.

so it's a it's a rather huge huge thing but um  um we can sort of It has a very clear interface. We can query it whether admission fees were discussed in the last turn and and the turn before that or you know how deep we want to search

OK.

um which is a question. How deep do we want to sear, you know? Um but we should try to keep in mind that, you know, we're doing this sort of for research, so we we should find a limit that's reasonable and not go, you know, all the way back to Adam and Eve. You know, did that person ever discuss admissions fee fees in his entire life? And the dialogues are pretty pretty you know concise and Anyway.

So one thing that might be helpful which is implicit in the use of " admission fee discussion " as a cue for entry, is thinking about the plans that various people might have. Like all the different sort of general schemas that they might be following OK. This person is um, finding out information about this thing in order to go in as a tourist or finding out how to get to this place in order to do business. Um, because then anything that's a cue for one of the steps would be slight evidence for that overall plan. Um, I don't know. They're in in non in sort of more traditional AI kinds of plan recognition things you sort of have you know, some idea at each turn of agent doing something, " OK, wha what plans is this a consistent with? " and then get s some more information and then you see " here's a sequence that this sort of roughly fits into ". It it might be useful here too.

Mm - hmm.

I I don't know how you know you'd have to figure out what knowl what knowledge representation would work for that.

I mean the u u

Hmm.

It's in the these these these plan schemas. I mean there are some some of them are extremely elaborate, you know. " What do you need need to buy a ticket? "

Mm - hmm.

You know? and it it's fifty steps,

Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.

huh? just for buying a ticket at a ticket counter, you know, and and maybe that's helpful to look at it to look at those. It's amazing what human beings can do. W when we talked uh we had the example, you know, of you being uh a s a person on a ticket counter working at railway station and somebody r runs up to you with a suitcase in his hands, says New York and you say Track seven, huh? And it's because you know that that person actually is following, you know You execute a whole plan of going through a hundred and fifty steps, you know, without any information other than " New York ", huh? inferring everything from the context. So, works. Um, even though there is probably no train from here to New York, right?

Mmm. Not direct.

You'd uh probably have to transfer in Chicago.

Mm - hmm. But uh it's possible. Um, no you probably have to transfer also somewhere else. Right? Is that t San Francisco, Chicago?

I think.

Is that possible?

One time I saw a report on trains, and I think there is a l I don't know if I thought there was a line that went from somewhere, maybe it was Sacramento to Chicago,

Mm - hmm.

but there was like a California to Chicago line of some sort.

Hmm.

I could be wrong though. It was a while ago.

The Transcontinental Railroad, doesn't that ring a bell?

Yeah but I don't know if it's still.

I think it has to exist somewhere.

They might have blown it up.

Well it never went all the way, right? I mean you always had to change trains at Omaha,

Well most of the way.

right? One track ended there and the other one started at five meters away from that

Uh. Mm - hmm. Yeah.

and sort of.

Well. You seem to know better than we do so.

yeah? Has anybody ever been on an Amtrak?

I have. But not transcontinentally.

I'm frightened by Amtrak myself.

What? Why?

I just They seem to have a lot of accidents on the Amtrak.

Really?

Their reputation is very bad.

Yeah. Yeah.

huh? It's not maybe reality.

It's not like German trains. Like German trains are really great so.

But you know, I don't know whether it's which ones are safer, you know, statistically.

Um, but they're faster.

Yeah.

Much faster. Mm - hmm.

And there's much more of them. Yeah, they're Yeah, it's way better

yeah I used um Amtrak quite a bit on the east coast and I was surprised. It was actually OK.

Mm - hmm.

You know, on Boston New York,

Yeah.

New York Rhode Island,

Yeah.

whatever,

I've done that kind of thing.

Boston.

Mm - hmm.

Yeah. But That's a different issue.

This is going to be an interesting transcript.

Hmm?

I I want to see what it does with uh " landmark - iness ". That's.

Yeah.

Let's all say it a few more times.

It'd help it figure it out.

So.

Just kidding. Right.

Yeah.

So by the way tha that structure that Robert drew on the board was like more um, cue - type - based, right, here's like we're gonna segment off a bit of stuff that comes from discourse and then some of the things we're talking about here are more you know, we mentioned maybe if they talk about um, I don't know, entering or som you know like they might be more task - based.

Hmm.

So I I don't know if there There's obviously some m more than one way of organizing the variables into something

I think that um What you guys did is really nicely sketching out different tasks, and maybe some of their conditions.

so. Mm - hmm.

One task is more likely you're in a hurry when you do that kind of s doing business,

Mm - hmm.

and and less in a hurry when uh you're a tourist Um tourists may have never have final destinations, you know because they are eternally traveling around so maybe what what what happened what might happen is that we do get this sort of task - based middle layer,

Mm - hmm.

and then we'll get these sub - middle layers, that are more cue - based.

Mm - hmm. That feed into those?

Nah?

Mm - hmm.

Might be might be a nice dichotomy of of the world. So, um I suggest w to for to proceed with this in in the sense that maybe throughout this week the three of us will will talk some more about maybe segmenting off different regions, and we make up some some toy a observable " nodes " is that what th

Refined y re just refine the.

What's the technical term?

OK. For which?

For the uh nodes that are observable? The " outer layer "?

Just observable nodes,

The features,

evidence nodes?

I don't know, whatever you.

Feature ma make up some features for those Identify four regions,

Yeah.

maybe make up some features for each region and uh and uh, uh and uh middle layer for those. And then these should then connect somehow to the more plan - based deep space

Yeah.

Basically just refine some of the more general nodes.

Yep. The - they they will be aud ad - hoc for for for some time to come.

Yeah, this is totally like The probabilities and all are completely ad - hoc. We need to look at all of them. I mean but, they're even like I mean like, close to the end we were like, uh, you know we were like uh really ad - hoc.

It's a even distribution. Like, whatever.

Right? Cuz if it's like, uh If it's four things coming in, right? And, say, some of them have like three possibilities and all that. So you're thinking like like a hundred and forty four or something possible things numbers to enter,

And That's terrible.

right? So.

Some of them are completely absurd too, like they want to enter, but it's closed,

That's uh Well.

it's night time, you know there are tourists and all this weird stuff happens at the line up and you're like.

Yeah, the only like possible interpretation is that they are like come here just to rob the museum or something to that effect.

confused.

In which case you're supposed to alert the authorities, and see appropriate action.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, another thing to do, um, is also to, um I guess to ask around people about other Bayes - net packages. Is Srini gonna be at the meeting tomorrow, do you know?

Maybe.

The day after tomorrow.

Wait.

Quite possibly.

Wednesday.

Day after tomorrow.

Oh, oh, sorry.

Yeah.

Sorry, Wednesday,

Who's talking on Wednesday?

Maybe we can ask him about it.

yeah. Mmm.

I haven't J Jerry never sent out a sent out an email, did he, ever?

No. But he mentioned at the last meeting that someone was going to be talking, I forget who.

Oh, isn't Ben?

Uh.

Ben?

Ben, then,

I think it's Ben actually,

Ben.

Ah!

yeah, um, giving his job talk I think. um, Sorry. I was just reading the screen.

OK.

Yeah.

Oh.

So the uh That will be one one thing we could do. I actually uh, have Um, also we can uh, start looking at the SmartKom tables and I will.

Right.

I actually wanted to show that to you guys now but um.

Do you want to trade?

Um, no I I actually made a mistake because it it fell asleep and when Linux falls asleep on my machine it's it doesn't wake up ever, so I had to reboot

Oh, no.

And if I reboot without a network, I will not be able to start SmartKom, because I need to have a network.

Uh.

So we'll do that t maybe uh.

But. OK. But once you start sart start SmartKom you can be on You don't have to be on a network anymore. Is that the deal?

Yep.

Ah, interesting.

Why does SmartKom need a network?

Um it looks up some stuff that, you know, is is that is in the written by the operating system only if it if you get a DHCP request, so it you know, my computer does not know its IP address, you know?

Ah.

You know. So. Unless it boots up with networking.

It's plugged in. Yeah.

And I don't have an IP address, they can't look up they don't know who localhost is, and so forth and so forth.

Hmm.

Always fun. But it's a, um, simple solution. We can just um, go downstairs and and and look at this, but maybe not today. The other thing um I will oh yeah, OK, I have to report um, data collection. We interviewed Fey,

Mm - hmm.

She's willing to do it, meaning be the wizard for the data collection, also maybe transcribe a little bit, if she has to, but also recruiting subjects, organizing them, and so forth. So that looks good. Jerry however suggested that we should uh have a trial run with her, see whether she can actually do all the uh spontaneous, eloquent and creativeness that we uh expect of the wizard. And I talked to Liz about this and it looks as if Friday afternoon will be the time when we have a first trial run for the data.

So who would be the subject of this trial run?

Pardon me?

Who Will there be a Is one Is you one of you gonna be the subject? Like are you.

Um Liz also volunteered to be the first subject, which I think might be even better than us guys.

Good.

One of us, yeah.

If we do need her for the technical stuff, then of course one of you has to sort of uh jump in.

I like how we've you guys have successfully narrowed it down. " Is one of you going to be the subject? " Is one of you jump in.

Reference. I haven't done it yet.

Well I just figured it has to be someone who's, um, familiar enough with the data to cause problems for the wizard, so we can, uh, see if they're you know good.

Oh plants? e u someone who can plant difficult things.

Yeah. I mean that's what we wanna check, right?

Um,

Well, in this case it's a p it's a sort of testing of the wizard rather than of the subject.

Isn't that what it is?

It's uh.

yes w we we would like to test the wizard, but you know, if we take a subject that is completely unfamiliar with the task, or any of the set up, we get a more realistic

I guess that would be reasonable.

Yeah.

you know, set up as.

Yeah. I know. That's probably a good enough test of.

Uh - huh.

Yeah.

Sort of having an actively antagonistic, uh.

Yeah. That might be a little unfair. Um.

Yeah.

I'm sure if we uh, You think there's a chance we might need Liz for, whatever, the technical side of things? I'm sure we can get other people around who don't know anything um, if we want another subject.

Yeah, yeah.

You know. Like I can drag Ben into it or something. Although he might cause problems but. So, is it a experimental setup for the um, data collection totally ready determined?

I like that. " Test the wizard. " I want that on a T - shirt.

Um I think it's it's it's I mean experimental setup u on the technical issue yes, except we st I think we still need uh a recording device for the wizard, just a tape recorder that's running in a room.

Mm - hmm.

But um in terms of specifying the scenario, um uh uh we've gotten a little further

Mm - hmm.

but um we wanted to wait until we know who is the wizard, and have the wizard partake in the ultimate sort of definition probe. So so if if on Friday it turns out that she really likes it and and we really like her, then nothing should stop us from sitting down next week and  getting all the details completely figured out.

Mm - hmm.

And um.

OK. So the ideal task um, will have whatever I don't know how much the structure of the evolving Bayes - net will af affect Like we wanna we wanna be able to collect as much of the variables that are needed for that,

Mmm - yea - some.

right? in the course of the task? Well not all of them but you know.

Bu - e e e I'm even This this Tango, Enter, Vista is sort of, itself, an ad - hoc scenario.

Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.

The the basic u um idea behind the uh data collection was the following. The data we get from Munich is very command line, simple linguistic stuff.

Mm - hmm.

Hardly anything complicated. No metaphors whatsoever.

Mm - hmm.

Not a rich language. So we wanted just to collect data, to get that that that elicits more, uh, that elicits richer language.

Mm - hmm.

And we actually did not want to constrain it too much,

Mm - hmm.

you know? Just see what people say. And then maybe we'll discover the phenomenon the phenomena that we want to solve, you know, with whatever engine we we come up with. Um. So this this this is a parallel track, you know, there they hopefully meet,

OK. So in other words this data collection is more general.

but since.

It could it could be used for not just this task.

It should tell us, you know, what kind of phenomenon could occur, it should tell us also maybe something about the difference between people who think they speak to a computer versus people who think they speak to a human being

Mm - hmm.

and the sort of differences there. So it may get us some more information on the human - machine pragmatics, um, that no one knows anything about, as of yesterday. And uh nothing has changed  since then, so. Uh. And secondly, now that of course we have sort of started to lick blood with this, and especially since um Johno can't stop Tango - ing, we may actually include, you know, those those intentions. So now I think we should maybe have at least one navigational task with with sort of explicit uh

Mm - hmm.

not ex it's implicit that the person wants to enter,

Mm - hmm.

and maybe some task where it's more or less explicit that the person wants to take a picture,

Mm - hmm.

or see it or something. So that we can label it. I mean, that's how we get a corpus that we can label.

Mm - hmm. Exactly.

Whereas, you know, if we'd just get data we'd never know what they actually wanted, we'd get no cues. Yep.

Alrighty.

OK.

That was that.

So is this the official end of the meeting now?

Yep.

Looks like it.

So what's " Economics, the fallacy "?

Ma

I just randomly label things. So that has nothing to do with economics or anything.

Oh, really?

Maybe we ought to switch off these things before we continue.

OK.

OK. Switching o

Question: What did the meeting participants decide to do to move the project forward?

Response: The participants decided to create a middle layer in their belief-net model. This middle layer consists of values that can be inferred from the features extracted from the data. The values in this middle layer are not directly extracted from the data. Instead, they are derived from the extracted values based on probabilities.

Question: What are the values in the middle layer of the belief-net model and how are they derived?

Response: The values in the middle layer of the belief-net model are inferred from the features extracted from the data based on probabilities. These values include whether someone is on a tour, running an errand, or in a hurry. This is done by looking at the extracted features and determining the probability that each of these values is true.

Question: Did anyone disagree with Grad C about the values in the middle layer of the belief-net model?

Response: The transcript does not contain information regarding whether anyone disagreed with Grad C about the values in the middle layer of the belief-net model.

Question: Can you summarize the main points of the meeting?

Response:
* The participants discussed the creation of a middle layer in their belief-net model.
* This middle level consists of values such as whether someone is on a tour, running an errand, or in a hurry.
* The values in the middle layer are inferred from the features extracted from the data based on probabilities.
* They discussed the need for a trial run with the wizard for the data collection.
* They also talked about the importance of collecting richer language data to get a better understanding of the phenomena they want to solve.

Question: Were there any unresolved questions or issues that were not addressed during the meeting?

Response:
* The participants did not reach a consensus on the values to use in the middle layer of the belief-net model.
* They were unable to determine how many nodes should be added to the middle layer.
* The participants also did not resolve how to handle cases where the context is not set.

Question: Can you give me a detailed summary of the discussion on modeling discourse cues in the belief-net model?

Response: The meeting transcript does not contain any information about the modeling of discourse cues in the belief-net model. Therefore, I am unable to extract the requested information.

Question: What did Grad C suggest to do when discussing the middle layer for the belief net model?

Response: Grad C suggested that, for modeling the middle layer of the belief net, values could be expanded into Bayes nets of their own, with hidden layers that point to some general hidden layer. They also proposed that more general discourse phenomena, such as the discussion of admission fees, could be used to populate this middle layer.


So let's start our second me meeting on conceptual design.

So,

Mm-hmm.

as the previous meeting I will be the secretary

Mm-hmm.

and we will have three presentations and we'll have to decide on the remote control concept and finally we'll close the decision. So I will first uh.

No y you do the minutes first, or?

What?

No?

I I think I will let uh our User Interface Designer speak first, Mister David Jordan.

Okay.

Yep.

So, we'll S

Yeah.

technical accessoire?

No no no.

Interface?

Yeah.

This.

Mm. So uh first I will present the concept of user interface. Um there's three concepts in the user interface. So first one it's a Google controller. The second is a fancy controller. The last one is uh intelligent controller. So there are three concepts in our controller. Um n next I will explain one by one, the first is Google controller. Um, so I want the controller to be easy to use, but with sophisticated functions. So it's a combination of easy to use and um sophisticated functions. Uh this is a first concept of our controller. The second concept is a fancy controller, um so we want give the customers the impression that our controller is very attractive, um they can easy recognise our controller among a lot of products, so so the u the user f the the u user interface should be very very cute, very very g um

Mm.

Mm.

A nice one.

attractive. Such like this, there are several uh examples in the slides.

I'm not sure the one in the middle is very attractive.

Yeah, it's very, you know

It's very big,

if you're.

yeah.

Yeah.

It's hard f i it's easy for you to remember it. Or to recognise it,

Okay.

yeah.

Yeah, why not..

Yeah. Yeah.

We'll have big discussion I suppose after that,

Yeah. Yeah.

so.

Yeah.

Mm.

So the last uh concept is intelligent. We want uh we want our controller to be smart,

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

so maybe we should uh use um uh technology, such as speech recognition technology and gesture recognition technology, so we need to have coop some cooperation with some research institute on speech recognition and um gesture recognition. Um With this advanced features we I think we can attract a lot of user.

Okay. Something else?

Okay. No. There this is the three concepts of our controller.

Yeah.

I just have one question, because for the intelligent controller, you said that we can use the voice recognition or the gesture recognition,

Yeah. Yeah.

but as the um expert told us, most of the people want to use the remote control to zap t to zap between channels. Do you think they will be able to use gestures?

Yeah, so.

Because, if they do all the time the same gesture, as you said previously in the last meeting, maybe they will get injuries because of that?

Y

Yeah. Maybe.

or if you say channel three channel three two three four six five, I think they will be bored after a while. You don't think so?

Uh I think some time it's very uh convenient to use voice interface and gesture interface than use button.

Yeah, sure.

For example, if you cannot find your uh controller, you can just uh just just uh speak something such as, yeah, one two.

I

Oh yeah, that's a good that's a good point, so.

That's true..

One and.

Yeah, but suppose you got a cold. You have a mute remote controller.

Yeah.

Mm.

So you can use your gesture. That's no problem..

Yeah but how how is how risky is it to trust like speech recognition or gesture recognition?

Broken arm?

For limited vocabulary speech recognition is very reliable and for s limited vocabulary gesture recognition is also very.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah, but suppose you have a family watching T_V_, and if they want to use their private remote control in the same time, do you think it will work? Everybody wanting to change channel in the same time?

Yeah.

Yep..

But this this but this would never happen anyway.

Why?

Yeah, they cannot speak at the same time.

If you have one brother and one sister

Yeah.

and they want to watch their favourite uh T_V_ programme,

Yeah, but the.

so they say oh channel four channel three channel four channel three all the time,

Yeah but Yeah

Yeah, it's very interesting..

Yeah but this.

so.

but the same can happen even with it you know this kind of remote control

Yeah.

because the.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I don't think it.

but you have the remote control, so maybe you can keep it f with you.

That's right.

You're not you're not obliged to share it.

Oh, okay, okay, you mean it could be a problem for this kind of stuff.

Yeah, we can yeah.

Yeah, that's that's the advantage of intelligent controller. Even you h you have the controller, I can I can say channel three,

It's it's.

No.

so it's c come to channel three,

No, but this is disadvant disadvantage.

I don't have to.

Yeah, I think it's a disadvantage.

It's advantage.

Yeah.

And mayb maybe we can have the switching mode to pass from you know voice controller to

Yeah, but one other question.

manual controllers, eh.

How how much will it cost?

No, more expensive maybe.

How much?

Yeah. Because I suppose we need to do research to have something working.

No no we we d we we just are use um.

Some some efficient.

Uh if you if if you use the basic.

No no we just um have some cooperation with some research institute, we don't have to do some basic research on this field.

So you think it won't cost an Not a lot for us? Or?

Yeah, I think it's uh because uh this technology is uh um for limited wor or limited wor uh lexical recognition, it's very.

Yeah, but uh uh.

it's uh yeah. It's.

But it's it's changing how the remote control is gonna be built. Because then you need uh I mean this doesn't have uh the power to do recognition, for example.

Well y y you have also the language problem,

No it's uh Even for the f um because the the vocabulary the.

you know when you.

Mm-mm.

'Cause it it have to be universal,

Yeah. I agree with uh.

so.

The vocabulary is very small, so that's not a problem.

Yeah.

Yeah, but there is one problem that uh Baba talked about is the international

Yeah.

Yeah.

remote control. We need something that is international. Suppose we're we want to sell it in France.

Yeah.

The recognition system will be able to understand French. If you want to go to England, it will be able to understand English,

Yeah.

so.

Yeah, the key, the key um the key of our the key feature of our controller is that it's it has some some um adaptation

Yeah, this could be downloaded by the web maybe, or.

Yeah but you know. The product The pro

mechanism. It's It's it means when you when you sell this controller in China it's can recognise Chinese. It's r if you sell this controller in France it can recognise French.

It's a very smart, it's a very smart controller maybe.

Mm, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah,

And with no increase in the pri production price of the remote control?

it's.

Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. But.

Because of this product uh this technology has already been developed.

Yeah, but how will you.

So.

Yeah but the problem is how to s you know if this is a push button controller, you can send this con this remote control everywhere in the world, the same one.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you have the language, you have to develop for each country.

Mm.

Oh n Yeah, yeah tha that's why we have to do language adaptation.

Yeah, but for each country you have to do one,

Yeah.

because uh the for example for Se.

Even for each f for even for different family we have to do d yeah we would we have to do adaptation to.

Oh really? That's.

Oh.

Yeah,

Seems to be quite complex.

but then w Yeah,

Comple

No, it's not so complex.

we have to take care of the twelve Euros

And what about voice recognition, do we have microphones?

problem.

And where will be they? Do you think if we're far from television it will work?

No no no it's not I think that's n that's not a problem because you you don't have to wear a microphone. It it just the microphone is embedded in the controller.

Yeah, but where is the controller?

Okay.

Where is the controller?

Yeah.

It's in your family, in your home..

Yeah, but we're.

No, but then it's it's like this uh.

here it's uh an object. But here you say you want to use i uh s technology.

Yeah. Yeah you can you can embed it uh microphone here.

A microphone maybe.

Yeah, but wha what is the use of voice or gesture recognition if you have a remote control li like this, if you have an object. If you want to use voice or gesture you need to be free, without any object.

To talk to the to the T_V_ maybe.

You just want to interact with television.

Yeah yeah just you just put the controller here, then you

I if you say one, he switch to channel,

you use your command

Yeah,

yeah.

and you do s your gesture.

but you can lose it..

No no it's n y if you lose it.

So well for example if it is somewhere in the room if i maybe if it is in the table there you can always say s channel one and the t the remote control gives the order to the T_V_ to switch to channel one.

Yeah.

Okay you so you can build a kind of black box

Devic

and put it on T_V_ and just to recognize gestures and voice.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah but so you need a camera and you know a microphone inside your remote control.

Ah.

Yeah.

But you would still have the buttons. Or is it do you think it should be only voice recognition and gesture recognition? Or you you still have the possibility to use buttons?

think it we should give the uh flexibility to the user and we think.

Okay, so you.

Yeah,

yeah.

yeah.

You can see they can switch form one modality to another.

Mm.

Yeah, I dunno. It's a bit risky risky.

I think so.

Yeah.

No,

And maybe it will be quite.

that's quite inter quite attractive.

But I think that, you know, switching from one country to to another will be a problem, so although y y

Well, if you do language adaptation, there should be no problem..

Yeah,

Yeah but i i.

Okay..

I dunno.

We should have confidence in technology..

Yeah, we should. Uh.

Hmm. So, what do you think? We'll try the controllers you'd prefer.

Mm.

What?

Which kind of controller would you prefer to use, you as a remote control user?

If if I mean, uh I'm sure if the user pays the same price, he's happy to have recognition.

More features, yeah.

Yeah, but.

But if if if it like doubles uh

I think he need a control that is very reliable,

no one would would be interested.

so.

So I think it would be better not to do any intelligent controller and to stay with the Google controller or a fancy controller. Maybe try to mix the Google controller and the fancy controller? Hmm?

Yeah. Yeah.

Just want to have something controller which is in a kind of intelligent controller, easy to use, sophisticated and fancy. You think it's possible?

Yeah but if if you stick to um stick to the first two parts. So what's the difference between our controller with other products in the market? There's no k features of our controller, so is there is there any necessary to design new controller without any breakthrough features?

Yeah.

Yeah. No,

Would y would you replace your controller with a controller with similar function if you do not have some some function inside it that.

I mean.

It's not really the we

Y

we can add for example some function like for browsing in internet, so or something like that. But uh I think a user need.

Yeah, you y that's a fun that's not the function of the controller, that's a function of T_V_. You can replace your T_V_ with a new T_V_ with internet browsing function,

No,

but.

but you need you need new remote controller then. Because if you wanna browse internet or, I don't know, if you wanna type something,

Don't have a the the Yeah

Okay.

or.

if we can send email from it.

But it's not the only the problem only the issue of controller, it's it's also the issue of the T_V_.

No. No.

Because the p the problem I can see with with the voice or the gesture itself wh what can happen in a family i i for example if.

Cause for example yeah.

Yeah, but we do we do we we we cannot rely one hundred percent on these features to u to use the controller,

Yeah.

Yeah, but uh we want so

but with the features of our controller such as you have the feature of voice recognition in your mobile but you seldom use it, your mobile, but you when you choose a new mobile, you choose the one with voice recognition.

Yeah, you wou you would.

That's.

True.

the feature is not one hundred percent reliable, but it's a feature to distinguish our product from our from other products.

Yeah, but w we we want something th that works all the time, every day, every hour, for everyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And for all the person of the family maybe,

Yeah, uh.

You don't need to tune it.

so, yeah.

Yeah, if if if if you're if you ar if you already have a product it works one hundred percent reliable, would you replace it with another one?

Yeah, why not? If it's.

I mean, for example the goo y

Because you have new.

you say we would we would to have a Google-like controller.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't see how adding speech or gesture recognition would make the remote control look more like Google. Google is is simple, works fine,

Yeah.

so I I guess if can have a remote control that is really basic, simple and works fine, it's already a lot.

Yeah. Oh yes, but there's no big difference between the traditional controller.

Uh thi this I mean, the user is not only interested in having speech or gesture recognition

The then nn

or.

no.

if he has something that works fine and is really fancy, looks nice and it's easy easy to use, easy to use.

Tha

Not too expensive too.

But the there's there's n there's n not enough motivation for them to replace their old controller with a new one if there's no key feature in the new controller.

See.

That's the same.

That's the problem,

yeah.

yeah. I mean, I I know it's more interesting to develop a remote controller with speech and gesture and whatever.

Ye.

Yeah.

But you have to think, the user is the one who gonna buy the product

Yeah.

and so.

Okay. So

I mean, that's the point.

let's go to the Industrial Designer.

Okay.

Okay.

Maybe we'll be able to take a decision after that, so.

Okay.

Yeah.

Two?

Yeah, participant two um.

Working?

Yeah, working design,

so.

So I think.

I can.

Can you go to the next one? I uh it's not this one.

Okay.

It's uh oth the oth so I.

It's the working design. Sorry. Component design.

It's okay.

So this yeah so this is the described use.

What? Are you inst

Uh I think there's something wrong with your.

It did didn't r receive it. Didn't receive it.

Maybe you you record it somewhere else.

I don't think so.

Participant one. Participant one.

Interface concept. No.

Hmm.

Mm mm.

Oh. Maybe I record recorded directly on the Computer.

Yeah.

Uh. Nope..

Dunno.

Okay, okay. Yes.

It seems that we have a problem with the.

I dunno if you remember what you had to say or.

I can say it to you without.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, maybe we can first come to

No, I think it will be more interesting to start with uh.

uh to Frahan. With Frahan, then you can prepare your slides,

I think it's more interesting what he says,

Yeah.

Yeah,

then present it later.

okay.

exac

You will had s some more information in.

Okay.

I think it will be interesting after your presentation to have um Baba's presentation.

Yeah.

Yeah, true.

Yeah.

Okay..

In fact, I don't know,

So. Okay.

I s because i in my presentation I don't have here with.

Okay, never mind.

so It was in fact the design use to show you the design of what is inside a what is inside and what are the different component of the r

Okay.

of the remote control. So it will be interesting so I could show you some some picture of what is inside

Okay. Okay.

and so. So I in fact the the f something I want to discuss is which kind of material are we going to use,

Mm-hmm.

so will it will be wooden wooden di wooden remote control or a a plastic remote control like this one. So and in which which which kind will be the the different bu button,

Mm-hmm.

so it can be some, you know, classic pushbutton like this one, or you have also some button like L_C_D_ where you know, the button the buttons are unlighted during the night,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

or, you know, you can see them in the darkness.

Okay.

Okay.

And the other thing I want to discuss also is which kind of alimentation, electric alimentation do you want to have, so will it be for example uh d uh solar energy alimentation

Uh-huh.

or will it be a battery like the classical battery so. And I think that for example for the alimentation it would be good to have uh both of them, so so for example in some country where you are in the the countryside and you are far from, you know, the cities uh for example in some place in in S Senegal, so if you have electric if you have solar alimentation, you just, when you want to have recharger or remote control power you just put it on the sun and after one hour you can come

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

and so it can be interesting for people to have this kind of remote con It can be something interesting to make people buy it, for example.

Yeah, I think it's an added value to the remote control

Yeah. Yeah, yeah mm.

and maybe it can attract all the ecological k yeah consumers

Ecologists, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

and but about the the price of adding this solar battery, would it be something really that will increase the price of production more,

no?

Alrigh In fact, having them both will if we want to have battery, regular battery and and the solar energy battery it could be it'll it will add a little bit of the price,

So.

but it will be an added value also that will be compensated,

Yeah.

Okay.

so hmm.

And what tha what about the uh materials?

And the materials, it depends for example you if you have a wooden material it can be more the plastic material is more common

Impersonal, mm-hmm.

it's very resistant but, you know, something wooden will be like, I don't know high cl so a special high class,

Yeah.

Special for.

or you know, you can have some.

Yeah, and i if you we want to put fashion in electronics maybe we can try to do something with wood.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, even if it is not completely wood, but just a part of the, you know, will be wooden, in wood

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm.

and it can be interesting.

Mm okay, seems to be interesting, mm.

And so the last point is y also would do you want to have some very cheap integrated cir circuits, chips, or do you have low level or or very very expensive, it depends, but I think that low level will be, you know, it is an interim module.

Yeah, we want something easy to use and so I think maybe something very low level wou would be enough.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And you think that we will be.

Yeah, I think it will fit on the price we want, twel twelve Euros,

Okay.

so.

So wood.

And what about the buttons?

I think the buttons I pr I prefer, you know, the L_C_D_ you know lighted buttons because, you know, it's I don't know um yeah, in the dark, it's fashion

No it's fashion, yeah.

and it's related to how beautiful it is or uh if you want to watch T_V_ in the darkness or if you want to lo find your find your your remote control that is lost, you know in the darkness it's very easy so, right.

What about the touch scr touch screen? For example. It's it's expensive I I guess.

I think a touch screen will be t as expensive as the L_C_D_ buttons so.

Mm.

But And it is a kind of other design, I mean. It can also be interesting to have this kind of.

Yeah.

So you got email?

I dunno. I think we have only uh five minutes left.

Okay.

Participant four? Functional requirements?

Uh no, trend watching. The other one..

This one?

Yeah. Uh, I think so, just Yeah, so just to meet the user requirements I would just do a s short anal analysis of the remote control market and to kind of um have a better overview of what's the fashion in general I've checked more than only the remote control market, so next.

So again, it's pretty much similar to what I've said in the previous meeting. Um user really really want a fancy look and feel. They're not so so interested in uh functional look and feel, okay. Like the one you've shown, David, with all the buttons and I mean i i it sounds good technically

Mm.

Mm.

but it's it's not what they want and uh So, second point is they still want it it to be technologically innovative, so maybe it's sort of related to what you've said with the speech recognition and so on.

Okay.

At the same time, it's important that it's easy to use. So that were the three first points from the remote control uh analysis.

Now i if we look at fashion in general um Okay. Wha what we really see this year is that uh everything from clothes to shoes and furniture is is inspired by fruits and vegetables,

Ah yes.

okay, so I think we really have to take this into account for the design of the the thing.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah.

'Cause it's it's really what people want. Even if it's in general fashion, we want it to be in the remote control. And then uh if if we take the ordering or the ranking of all the points, fancy look and feel has, on a score of seven would have six as importance. Uh the remote control has to be technologically innovative, it's three. Then easy to use uh it's not so important actually with respect to other y other ones.

Okay.

So we see fancy look an look and feel is the most important one, and then if we combine this with the fashion uh from Milan and Paris

And fruit and vegetables yeah.

we go to the fruits and vede vegetables. And the other point I haven't mention is people wan want to have a spongy touch,

Spongy'Kay.

okay so this is this maybe doesn't really fit with the wooden design.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

I dunno.

Yeah, but the problem is which kind of material do you need to to be spongy?

Yeah thi this is this would be like um

Pla S

plastic-like, but rubber, mayb maybe, you know, rubber-like uh

Very stuff Okay, rubber rubber desi okay, yeah. Yeah.

device, so um

Yeah.

Okay, tha tha that was the main point, I think, from the trend in fashion.

Okay.

So we have to take decisions about the component concepts, about the energy. So, as you say you want something technologically innovative, maybe using solar energy and with battery would be something interesting,

Yeah. Solar.

Yeah, so when I think it's.

Okay.

maybe will attract

Yeah.

Mm-hmm

It will be a.

pro-ecology consumers.

Yeah.

Uh cheap imprint so you s you propose low level chips would be uh enough to have something working well.

Yeah, I think Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Case.

Later?.

So you think case. Something spongy. Someth no wood.

No wood but Plastic?

Maybe not no wood, but I mean ma maybe not the part you touching you know.

Would some.

Pla

Maybe you.

I think we can have wood for example in the bottom and, you know. It depends on the design we want,

Yeah, maybe the base.

so.

It's it's natural.

But still y

Th The feeling is natural,

Yeah, it's natural

Yeah.

and i

so maybe we can stay with wood.

And it can be correlated to energy, solar energy, so for the marketing aspect, you know, saying that it's ecol

Yeah, I mean it's not exactly right for the spongy point of view.

Mm, yeah, it's not right, so.

But it's still fashion.

But we could maybe have both like part of wood and some rubber for the buttons,

Okay.

or

Yeah,

I dunno.

something that you can into it.

Yeah.

Uh and what about the user interface concept?

Google and.

Google and fancy?

and fancy, f how about the the voice? And.

Because I think that with the voice and gesture recognition there are still some disadvantages with this.

Uh maybe we can do some marketing studies asking people if they're interested

Uh yes.

and how It It is an an interesting concept to see to have uh voice control.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm. Yeah.

The smart controller..

But and the problem is I I'm we can infer i if you have v voice control why not to put it directly on the the T_V_, so speak directly to the T_V_ and you don't need a remote control actually,

Yeah,

so.

but you need a receiver to recognize the gestures and the voice.

But it will be embedded on the T_V_ and not on the remote control, so.

That's true.

Yeah d

Okay.

So maybe we'll just focus on the Google controller plus the fancy controller,

I dunno.

Mm.

maybe try to mix them these two concepts together, just in one and do a remote control with solar energy and batteries and with lev low level chips and wood.

Yeah. It's good.

And L_C_D_ buttons.

Yeah, L_C_D_.

Yeah, I think for these supplements the solar energy would be something quite interesting and not maybe too difficult to add.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And pf what can we think a supplement to.

What interface?

Yeah, for the interface something added value.

I think the supplement can be the voice. It is just, you know, it is not the most important, but it can be a part of.

With a module? You mean the remote control with a mur module if you want you can just use

Yeah, yeah.

commands, words and use them when you don't want to use your fingers.

Yeah. Mm.

Mm-hmm.

To push button, yeah, yeah. Even it is for s just some kids, you know, switching channels one two three four.

Turning the T_V_ o on o or off.

Yeah, turning yeah, yeah. Not very complex commands, but easy commands,

So,

so.

adding some vocal commands.

Yeah.

Simple ones?

Yeah, simple ones for.

Okay. So the next meeting will start in thirty meeti minutes so we'll you will all have to work in in your direction. So you will have to work on the look and feel design, to have the easy to use, powerful and fancy remote control with some added value such as the uh simple vocal commands recognition.

Yeah.

Yep. Yeah.

Uh you will have to work more, Baba, on the um spongy way to to add spongy um touch to the buttons.

expensive buttons Yeah, to make some new.

and try to find maybe a nice shape for the wooden remote control.

Yeah.

And I sup I think we'll have to evaluate th the product too.

Yeah, no not forgetting about the fruits and vegetables trends.

Yeah.

Okay, fruits.

Yeah.

If possible.

Okay.

And remember as as I said last meeting, we really have to build a fashion remote control and uh the colour of the um the society will be really it will be seen in the remote control.

Need it to be, okay.

So you will have Baba and David Jordan you will have to work together on the prototype and you will have next time to show us um modelling a cl a clay remote control,

Yeah.

Okay.

so you will have to model model something.

Okay. Yep

And I think that some specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach.

Okay.

So,

Okay.

no more questions, we can close the session.

Sounds good, mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah. Okay, cool.

Okay.

Question: What was the final decision made in the meeting regarding the remote control design?

Response: In the meeting, the participants discussed possible concepts for the design of the remote control. They decided to go with a mix of the Google controller and the fancy controller, with some added features.

Question: What did industrial designer recommend to do when discussing the material for the remote control?

Response: They suggested using wood for the bottom of the remote control since it is natural and can be correlated to energy, solar energy.

Question: What were some advantages of using wood as the material for the remote control?

Response:
* The industrial designer suggested using wood for the bottom of the remote control since it is natural and can be correlated to energy, solar energy.
* They mentioned that the spongy touch trend identified in fashion could not be properly implemented with wood.
* They proposed integrating both wood and rubber into the remote control's design, with wood for the base and rubber for the buttons, but the marketing team member disagreed on the rubber material for the buttons.

Question: Besides the spongy touch trend and the material used for the remote control, was anything else discussed in the meeting about fashion trends that could be incorporated into the remote's design?

Response: Yes, the marketing team member also mentioned that the trends in fashion showed a preference for a "fancy look and feel" and a "spongy touch". Fruits and vegetable designs were also identified as a popular trend that could be integrated into the remote control design.

Question: Was there a consensus among the participants that the remote control should have a voice control feature?

Response: The participants discussed the possibility of incorporating voice control as an added feature to the remote control. However, there was a concern that voice control may not work as well in situations where multiple people are using the remote control simultaneously, such as in a family setting. Additionally, they were concerned that it may increase the price of the remote control.

Question: What did Industrial Designer say regarding the feasibility of a remote control with both voice and gesture recognition capabilities?

Response: Industrial Designer shared the idea of having a remote control with both voice and gesture recognition capabilities. They admitted it could be an attractive feature for users as it would provide convenience and flexibility. However, they also mentioned a potential issue with this concept: such a remote control might not work as well in situations where multiple people are using it at the same time, as might be the case in a family setting.

Question: What did the Industrial Designer recommend to do when discussing the case material for the remote control?

Response: They suggested using wood for part of the remote control since it is natural and can be correlated to energy, solar energy. They proposed integrating both wood and rubber into the remote control's design, but the marketing team member disagreed on the rubber material for the buttons.

Question: What was their decision regarding the material for the remote's case?

Response: The participants decided to use a mix of wood and rubber in the remote control's design, with wood for the base and rubber for the buttons.

Question: Did anyone disagree with the Industrial Designer's suggestion of using wood for part of the remote's case?

Response: Yes, the marketing team member disagreed with the Industrial Designer's suggestion of using rubber for the buttons. They thought it would not fit well with the spongy touch trend identified in fashion.

Question: Did the participants decide to have a 100% wooden remote control?

Response: No, they decided to use a mix of wood and rubber in the design of the remote's case.