Book stringclasses 25
values | Speaker stringlengths 3 11 | Dialogue stringlengths 3 200k |
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euthydemus | SCENE | The Lyceum. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Who was the person, Socrates, with whom you were talking yesterday at the Lyceum? There was such a crowd around you that I could not get within hearing, but I caught a sight of him over their heads, and I made out, as I thought, that he was a stranger with whom you were talking: who was he? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | There were two, Crito; which of them do you mean? |
euthydemus | CRITO | The one whom I mean was seated second from you on the right-hand side. In the middle was Cleinias the young son of Axiochus, who has wonderfully grown; he is only about the age of my own Critobulus, but he is much forwarder and very good-looking: the other is thin and looks younger than he is. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | He whom you mean, Crito, is Euthydemus; and on my left hand there was his brother Dionysodorus, who also took part in the conversation. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Neither of them are known to me, Socrates; they are a new importation of Sophists, as I should imagine. Of what country are they, and what is their line of wisdom? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | As to their origin, I believe that they are natives of this part of the world, and have migrated from Chios to Thurii; they were driven out of Thurii, and have been living for many years past in these regions. As to their wisdom, about which you ask, Crito, they are wonderful--consummate! I never knew what the true pan... |
euthydemus | CRITO | But, Socrates, are you not too old? there may be reason to fear that. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Certainly not, Crito; as I will prove to you, for I have the consolation of knowing that they began this art of disputation which I covet, quite, as I may say, in old age; last year, or the year before, they had none of their new wisdom. I am only apprehensive that I may bring the two strangers into disrepute, as I hav... |
euthydemus | CRITO | I see no objection, Socrates, if you like; but first I wish that you would give me a description of their wisdom, that I may know beforehand what we are going to learn. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | In less than no time you shall hear; for I cannot say that I did not attend--I paid great attention to them, and I remember and will endeavour to repeat the whole story. Providentially I was sitting alone in the dressing-room of the Lyceum where you saw me, and was about to depart; when I was getting up I recognized th... |
euthydemus | CRITO | And do you mean, Socrates, that the youngster said all this? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Are you incredulous, Crito? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Indeed, I am; for if he did say so, then in my opinion he needs neither Euthydemus nor any one else to be his instructor. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Perhaps I may have forgotten, and Ctesippus was the real answerer. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Ctesippus! nonsense. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | All I know is that I heard these words, and that they were not spoken either by Euthydemus or Dionysodorus. I dare say, my good Crito, that they may have been spoken by some superior person: that I heard them I am certain. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Yes, indeed, Socrates, by some one a good deal superior, as I should be disposed to think. But did you carry the search any further, and did you find the art which you were seeking? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Find! my dear sir, no indeed. And we cut a poor figure; we were like children after larks, always on the point of catching the art, which was always getting away from us. But why should I repeat the whole story? At last we came to the kingly art, and enquired whether that gave and caused happiness, and then we got into... |
euthydemus | CRITO | How did that happen, Socrates? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | I will tell you; the kingly art was identified by us with the political. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Well, and what came of that? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | To this royal or political art all the arts, including the art of the general, seemed to render up the supremacy, that being the only one which knew how to use what they produce. Here obviously was the very art which we were seeking--the art which is the source of good government, and which may be described, in the lan... |
euthydemus | CRITO | And were you not right, Socrates? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | You shall judge, Crito, if you are willing to hear what followed; for we resumed the enquiry, and a question of this sort was asked: Does the kingly art, having this supreme authority, do anything for us? To be sure, was the answer. And would not you, Crito, say the same? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Yes, I should. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And what would you say that the kingly art does? If medicine were supposed to have supreme authority over the subordinate arts, and I were to ask you a similar question about that, you would say--it produces health? |
euthydemus | CRITO | I should. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And what of your own art of husbandry, supposing that to have supreme authority over the subject arts--what does that do? Does it not supply us with the fruits of the earth? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Yes. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And what does the kingly art do when invested with supreme power? Perhaps you may not be ready with an answer? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Indeed I am not, Socrates. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | No more were we, Crito. But at any rate you know that if this is the art which we were seeking, it ought to be useful. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Certainly. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And surely it ought to do us some good? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Certainly, Socrates. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And Cleinias and I had arrived at the conclusion that knowledge of some kind is the only good. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Yes, that was what you were saying. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | All the other results of politics, and they are many, as for example, wealth, freedom, tranquillity, were neither good nor evil in themselves; but the political science ought to make us wise, and impart knowledge to us, if that is the science which is likely to do us good, and make us happy. |
euthydemus | CRITO | Yes; that was the conclusion at which you had arrived, according to your report of the conversation. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And does the kingly art make men wise and good? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Why not, Socrates? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | What, all men, and in every respect? and teach them all the arts,--carpentering, and cobbling, and the rest of them? |
euthydemus | CRITO | I think not, Socrates. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | But then what is this knowledge, and what are we to do with it? For it is not the source of any works which are neither good nor evil, and gives no knowledge, but the knowledge of itself; what then can it be, and what are we to do with it? Shall we say, Crito, that it is the knowledge by which we are to make other men ... |
euthydemus | CRITO | By all means. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And in what will they be good and useful? Shall we repeat that they will make others good, and that these others will make others again, without ever determining in what they are to be good; for we have put aside the results of politics, as they are called. This is the old, old song over again; and we are just as far a... |
euthydemus | CRITO | Indeed, Socrates, you do appear to have got into a great perplexity. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Thereupon, Crito, seeing that I was on the point of shipwreck, I lifted up my voice, and earnestly entreated and called upon the strangers to save me and the youth from the whirlpool of the argument; they were our Castor and Pollux, I said, and they should be serious, and show us in sober earnest what that knowledge wa... |
euthydemus | CRITO | And did Euthydemus show you this knowledge? |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Yes, indeed; he proceeded in a lofty strain to the following effect: Would you rather, Socrates, said he, that I should show you this knowledge about which you have been doubting, or shall I prove that you already have it? What, I said, are you blessed with such a power as this? Indeed I am. Then I would much rather th... |
euthydemus | CRITO | Truly, Socrates, though I am curious and ready to learn, yet I fear that I am not like-minded with Euthydemus, but one of the other sort, who, as you were saying, would rather be refuted by such arguments than use them in refutation of others. And though I may appear ridiculous in venturing to advise you, I think that ... |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | O Crito, they are marvellous men; but what was I going to say? First of all let me know;--What manner of man was he who came up to you and censured philosophy; was he an orator who himself practises in the courts, or an instructor of orators, who makes the speeches with which they do battle? |
euthydemus | CRITO | He was certainly not an orator, and I doubt whether he had ever been into court; but they say that he knows the business, and is a clever man, and composes wonderful speeches. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Now I understand, Crito; he is one of an amphibious class, whom I was on the point of mentioning--one of those whom Prodicus describes as on the border-ground between philosophers and statesmen--they think that they are the wisest of all men, and that they are generally esteemed the wisest; nothing but the rivalry of t... |
euthydemus | CRITO | What do you say of them, Socrates? There is certainly something specious in that notion of theirs. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Yes, Crito, there is more speciousness than truth; they cannot be made to understand the nature of intermediates. For all persons or things, which are intermediate between two other things, and participate in both of them--if one of these two things is good and the other evil, are better than the one and worse than the... |
euthydemus | CRITO | I have often told you, Socrates, that I am in a constant difficulty about my two sons. What am I to do with them? There is no hurry about the younger one, who is only a child; but the other, Critobulus, is getting on, and needs some one who will improve him. I cannot help thinking, when I hear you talk, that there is a... |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Dear Crito, do you not know that in every profession the inferior sort are numerous and good for nothing, and the good are few and beyond all price: for example, are not gymnastic and rhetoric and money-making and the art of the general, noble arts? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Certainly they are, in my judgment. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Well, and do you not see that in each of these arts the many are ridiculous performers? |
euthydemus | CRITO | Yes, indeed, that is very true. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | And will you on this account shun all these pursuits yourself and refuse to allow them to your son? |
euthydemus | CRITO | That would not be reasonable, Socrates. |
euthydemus | SOCRATES | Do you then be reasonable, Crito, and do not mind whether the teachers of philosophy are good or bad, but think only of philosophy herself. Try and examine her well and truly, and if she be evil seek to turn away all men from her, and not your sons only; but if she be what I believe that she is, then follow her and ser... |
critias | TIMAEUS | How thankful I am, Socrates, that I have arrived at last, and, like a weary traveller after a long journey, may be at rest! And I pray the being who always was of old, and has now been by me revealed, to grant that my words may endure in so far as they have been spoken truly and acceptably to him; but if unintentionall... |
critias | CRITIAS | And I, Timaeus, accept the trust, and as you at first said that you were going to speak of high matters, and begged that some forbearance might be shown to you, I too ask the same or greater forbearance for what I am about to say. And although I very well know that my request may appear to be somewhat ambitious and dis... |
critias | SOCRATES | Certainly, Critias, we will grant your request, and we will grant the same by anticipation to Hermocrates, as well as to you and Timaeus; for I have no doubt that when his turn comes a little while hence, he will make the same request which you have made. In order, then, that he may provide himself with a fresh beginni... |
critias | HERMOCRATES | The warning, Socrates, which you have addressed to him, I must also take to myself. But remember, Critias, that faint heart never yet raised a trophy; and therefore you must go and attack the argument like a man. First invoke Apollo and the Muses, and then let us hear you sound the praises and show forth the virtues of... |
critias | CRITIAS | Friend Hermocrates, you, who are stationed last and have another in front of you, have not lost heart as yet; the gravity of the situation will soon be revealed to you; meanwhile I accept your exhortations and encouragements. But besides the gods and goddesses whom you have mentioned, I would specially invoke Mnemosyne... |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | You have seen the exhibition of the man fighting in armour, Nicias and Laches, but we did not tell you at the time the reason why my friend Melesias and I asked you to go with us and see him. I think that we may as well confess what this was, for we certainly ought not to have any reserve with you. The reason was, that... |
laches | NICIAS | As far as I am concerned, Lysimachus and Melesias, I applaud your purpose, and will gladly assist you; and I believe that you, Laches, will be equally glad. |
laches | LACHES | Certainly, Nicias; and I quite approve of the remark which Lysimachus made about his own father and the father of Melesias, and which is applicable, not only to them, but to us, and to every one who is occupied with public affairs. As he says, such persons are too apt to be negligent and careless of their own children ... |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | Why, Laches, has Socrates ever attended to matters of this sort? |
laches | LACHES | Certainly, Lysimachus. |
laches | NICIAS | That I have the means of knowing as well as Laches; for quite lately he supplied me with a teacher of music for my sons,--Damon, the disciple of Agathocles, who is a most accomplished man in every way, as well as a musician, and a companion of inestimable value for young men at their age. |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | Those who have reached my time of life, Socrates and Nicias and Laches, fall out of acquaintance with the young, because they are generally detained at home by old age; but you, O son of Sophroniscus, should let your fellow demesman have the benefit of any advice which you are able to give. Moreover I have a claim upon... |
laches | SON | Certainly, father, this is he. |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | I am delighted to hear, Socrates, that you maintain the name of your father, who was a most excellent man; and I further rejoice at the prospect of our family ties being renewed. |
laches | LACHES | Indeed, Lysimachus, you ought not to give him up; for I can assure you that I have seen him maintaining, not only his father's, but also his country's name. He was my companion in the retreat from Delium, and I can tell you that if others had only been like him, the honour of our country would have been upheld, and the... |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | That is very high praise which is accorded to you, Socrates, by faithful witnesses and for actions like those which they praise. Let me tell you the pleasure which I feel in hearing of your fame; and I hope that you will regard me as one of your warmest friends. You ought to have visited us long ago, and made yourself ... |
laches | SOCRATES | I will endeavour to advise you, Lysimachus, as far as I can in this matter, and also in every way will comply with your wishes; but as I am younger and not so experienced, I think that I ought certainly to hear first what my elders have to say, and to learn of them, and if I have anything to add, then I may venture to ... |
laches | NICIAS | I have no objection, Socrates; and my opinion is that the acquirement of this art is in many ways useful to young men. It is an advantage to them that among the favourite amusements of their leisure hours they should have one which tends to improve and not to injure their bodily health. No gymnastics could be better or... |
laches | LACHES | I should not like to maintain, Nicias, that any kind of knowledge is not to be learned; for all knowledge appears to be a good: and if, as Nicias and as the teachers of the art affirm, this use of arms is really a species of knowledge, then it ought to be learned; but if not, and if those who profess to teach it are de... |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | I am going to ask this favour of you, Socrates; as is the more necessary because the two councillors disagree, and some one is in a manner still needed who will decide between them. Had they agreed, no arbiter would have been required. But as Laches has voted one way and Nicias another, I should like to hear with which... |
laches | SOCRATES | What, Lysimachus, are you going to accept the opinion of the majority? |
laches | LYSIMACHUS | Why, yes, Socrates; what else am I to do? |
laches | SOCRATES | And would you do so too, Melesias? If you were deliberating about the gymnastic training of your son, would you follow the advice of the majority of us, or the opinion of the one who had been trained and exercised under a skilful master? |
laches | MELESIAS | The latter, Socrates; as would surely be reasonable. |
laches | SOCRATES | His one vote would be worth more than the vote of all us four? |
laches | MELESIAS | Certainly. |
laches | SOCRATES | And for this reason, as I imagine,--because a good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers? |
laches | MELESIAS | To be sure. |
laches | SOCRATES | Must we not then first of all ask, whether there is any one of us who has knowledge of that about which we are deliberating? If there is, let us take his advice, though he be one only, and not mind the rest; if there is not, let us seek further counsel. Is this a slight matter about which you and Lysimachus are deliber... |
laches | MELESIAS | That is true. |
laches | SOCRATES | Great care, then, is required in this matter? |
laches | MELESIAS | Certainly. |
laches | SOCRATES | Suppose, as I was just now saying, that we were considering, or wanting to consider, who was the best trainer. Should we not select him who knew and had practised the art, and had the best teachers? |
laches | MELESIAS | I think that we should. |
laches | SOCRATES | But would there not arise a prior question about the nature of the art of which we want to find the masters? |
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