Update reader assets
Browse files- manifest.json +60 -0
- objects/19/19da245328734d5a275f35fc6fab48efbbccdb59e5e411e415b6c0879ef05860/sanitized-html-v5-32b9e01243672739/document.html +322 -0
- objects/19/19e4bd2e8dd86d7a61045155607119416b18aebe8d1ab21336b488c80824b80d/sanitized-html-v5-ab7789488138bc7b/document.html +478 -0
- objects/a0/a0c37906b5cd8ab0bed3808db6aec753b3a8cd036977052d7800e718f3a4df55/sanitized-html-v5-e607d2163c2189e2/document.html +1162 -0
- objects/b4/b42765527e1884d18b32e39f4dc8e85b6f9ae176ac3f0a4dcd0bb48859f4ca98/sanitized-html-v5-293c89f6c7788fa6/document.html +256 -0
- objects/e8/e8a078f0e95ee7e80d086dc9e421cb3a4d60d463175493764ec1023bbc1cc17d/sanitized-html-v5-8b32ad6e671070ed/document.html +1447 -0
- reader_assets.json.gz +2 -2
manifest.json
CHANGED
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ADDED
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<div class="post_top"><div class="comments"><a title="Comment on The Defamation of Grover Furr">0</a></div></div>
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<h2 class="postitle"><a>The Defamation of Grover Furr</a></h2>
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<div class="single_metainfo">by msunews on December 13, 2012</div>
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<div><a><img></a><br></div><p>- By Jack Smith IV, Staff Writer</p>
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<p><span id="more-3747557"></span></p>
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<p>A YouTube video of a Montclair professor at a public debate has sparked the attention of national and local news outlets, resulting in both public outcry and marked sensationalism.</p>
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<p>In the video, the professor is addressed a question regarding genocides committed by communist regimes in the past hundred years, which grows into a shouting match between the professor and the questioner. “The United States has the lowest standard of living of all of the industrialized countries,” says the professor at the end of the video, “and they all have some form of Socialized healthcare, and you should have it too!”</p>
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<p>The professor was Grover Furr, who has been with Montclair State for 43 years, and teaches classes like History of Journalism, World Literature and History of the English Language.</p>
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<p>Outside of his capacities as an English professor, his research specialty has been the communist regimes of the 20th century, where he holds a number of controversial positions.</p>
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<p>One popular contention is his claim that Stalin, who is historically recognized as a genocidal mass-murderer, never actually perpetrated any of the alleged atrocities. “I have yet to find one crime,” he shouts in the video, “one crime that Stalin committed!”</p>
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<p>The video is hosted by ‘YAliberty,’ with a description that reads “Let’s make this video go viral.” It has 37,000+ views to date.</p>
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<p>Young Americans for Liberty (YAL) is a national organization for politically libertarian students. A relatively new activist organization, it has grown rapidly in the past four years, expanding to 300 chapters representing 26,000 students across the nation, a testament to the burgeoning American libertarian movement.</p>
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<p>After the publishing of the video on their official YouTube channel, Jeff Frazee, the executive director and founder of YAL and the former National Youth Coordinator for Ron Paul’s 2008 presidential campaign released a statement claiming Furr was teaching Stalinism to students. When Furr responded to YAL on this statement, Frazee, arguably one of the most important libertarian youth leaders in the country, personally responded with one sentence, “You are a sick man for denying the deaths of millions of innocent people and should be exposed for such.”</p>
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<p>During the recent election season, YAL sponsored a series of debates held at seven universities, and it was at this debate that the video of Prof. Furr was taken. “During the first few days, I watched the video rise in popularity, from 7,000 views to 12,000 views to 25,000 views, and so on,” said Anthony Celi, Vice President of the local YAL chapter. “It was very exciting to see our event get national coverage. We worked long and hard to put that debate together.”</p>
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<p>This coverage, however, was mostly due to the circulation it was receiving among a variety of conservative-leaning news sources and independent bloggers. The video had indeed gone viral, and with a very particular audience.</p>
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<p>The Washington Examiner, a daily paper with a circulation of a few hundred thousand, ran the headline on its site “Your Tax Dollars At Work: prof says Stalin did not kill millions of people – that’s ‘the Big Lie.’” The video itself is called “‘Communist Denier’ teaches students.” The title’s implications, however, are that Grover Furr uses his platform as a professor to teach communism or Stalinism to his students, a possibly spurious allegation.</p>
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<p>All of this media attention caught the eye of Arthur V. Belenduik, a lawyer from Washington D.C. Belenduik’s field is communications and he has been practicing law for decades. “If the FCC regulates it, it’s the kind of work I do.” Arthur Belenduik is also a first-generation Ukranian American.</p>
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<p>“When Stalin was rolling his tanks into Eastern Europe, my parents were running for their lives,” he said. “My aunt spent five years in a concentration camp under Stalin. I’ve seen what he can do first hand.” It wasn’t long after the video went online that Belenduik was receiving emails from Ukranian friends about Prof. Furr. The prospect that someone making claims that Stalin never committed “one crime” was teaching at a public university was appalling to Belenduik.</p>
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<p>Belenduik felt he needed to reach out, and contacted the office of the president, the College of Humanities and Social Sciences and the English department. The position of the school was that Prof. Furr was entitled to his first amendment rights, both in public forums and on his website hosted through Montclair’s servers.</p>
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<p>“The first amendment is not an absolute right,” said Belenduik, speaking on the phone from his office in Washington. “It’s not an issue of teaching the controversial. We demand that students who come to college be taught things that are truthful.” Unsatisfied with the official response from the university, he reached out to the Montclarion. “I am asking that you take steps that will lead to the immediate termination of Grover Furr,” he wrote in an email to our editors.</p>
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<p>The portrayal of Prof. Furr by these online news sources is endemic of a popular narrative in modern conservative politics: universities are liberal institutions, subsidized by your tax dollars, where young people go to be indoctrinated into left leaning ideologies. The Washington Examiner and other publications paint Prof. Furr as a typical example of just this. The alleged ethical infringement, however, hinges on whether or not Professor Furr brings his personal politics into the classroom, out of context of the coursework at hand.</p>
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<p>Though initially excited by the circulation and publicity, the local leadership of YAL was clear that they didn’t support the outcry against Prof. Furr which called for his removal from his teaching position. “We invited the man to debate his position, and he did just that,” said Celi. “The debate existed independently of his teaching.”</p>
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<p>Ultimately, it’s Professor Furr’s behavior in class which informs the legitimacy of his professional performance. The College for Humanities and Social Sciences was reluctant to comment on whether or not there had been a history of formalized complaints against Prof. Furr, or whether administrators had sat in on or observed any classes.</p>
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<p>“I can tell you this,” said Dr. Emily Isaacs, chair of the English department, “I have not received a complaint from an undergraduate student regarding any English class this semester.”</p>
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<p>“None of these bloggers, or anyone saying these things, has ever been in one of my classes,” said Furr, who’s no stranger to the regular criticism he receives, mostly online, and none of whom have reached out to him for comment on the debate clip. “Have they ever sat in on one of my classes? Or spoken to my students? They certainly could have. And those are the only opinions that matter.”</p>
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<p>“I’d heard that his political views had influenced his classes,” said one student who has taken Prof. Furr’s class in Middle English Literature. “But in my class, he never really made any references to communism or Stalinism or anything.” Most students have the same reaction.</p>
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<p>Prof. Furr, though notorious for his political positions, can’t recall an incident where Prof. Furr brought those positions into an irrelevant classroom context.</p>
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<p>Professor Furr keeps a website where all of his course materials are available for anyone to view, hosted on Montclair’s servers, as well as information on his political views, his publications and articles he authors or curates. “I’ve taken a look at the syllabus for his History of Journalism class, at least,” said an associate professor who teaches journalism here at Montclair, “and I couldn’t find anything that wasn’t really par-for-the-course.”</p>
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<p>Though there is debate about his writings on the subject of communist regimes of the 20th century, they’ve never been a part of his assigned readings or materials for classes he’s taught, and Prof. Furr often has to defend himself from outright slander on the subject.</p>
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<p>Ratemyprofessors.com, a site owned by MTV-U that hosts millions of ratings and comments, is a site where you can post reviews of your professors much like you would movies or restaraunts. The site has pages of comments about Prof. Furr, many of which range from the misleading to the obviously fraudulent. Prof. Furr writes a letter nearly annually requesting the removal of dozens of these posts, going one by one through each review pointing out clear inaccuracies, such as comments on Furr’s performance teaching classes that don’t even exist.</p>
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<p>“As I recall, in every case they removed the posts I identified,” said Furr. “[They’ve] handled this matter well.” Soon after they’re removed, the comments begin to stack up again, and are often taken as legitimate and used to levy criticism in right-wing blogs.</p>
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<p>Public and private universities have historically been a safe haven for the exchange of controversial ideas, the institution itself representing the value of multi-disciplinary practices and views informs the growth of an informed member of society.</p>
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<p>“Students attending Montclair State University are aware, intelligent and discerning,” said Suzanne Bronski, Montclair’s Director of Media Relations. “At the heart of the university experience is the valuable process of helping students to arrive at their own informed and considered opinions. As much as people may vehemently disagree with Professor Furr, we deeply believe that students are capable of separating out historical truth from personal political viewpoints.”</p>
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<p>As for Furr himself, the defense against the defamation of his character marches onward. He thinks it’s time for another letter to Ratemyprofessors.com. “I’ll probably write to them again as soon as classes are over.”</p>
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<br><span class="tpc_content"> 黄公演<br><br><br> (－)联想<br><br>天益社区网最近发表谢韬先生的《只有民主社会主义才能救中国》一文，该文是辛子陵先生的《千秋功罪毛泽东》一文的序言。所以谢先生的观点只能是赞同辛子陵的说法，所以问题的源头还是在辛先生身上，不过谢先生自己也有所发挥。<br><br>现在有一种倾向，认为“帝国主义衰落了”，即是说现代资本主义不能冠以“帝国主义”。现代资本主义可以和社会主义和平相处，将来也可以由资本主义和平长入社会主义，因此有人就断言“革命”与“战争”将永远在地球上销逝。他们沒有明确说明“帝国主义衰落”在什么时候开始!也许是在第二次世界大战以后，那么美国侵略朝鲜和越南的战争,是否算为帝国主义的侵略战争?美国是否还是帝国主义?美国入侵阿富汗和伊拉克的是什么性质的?一,是否可以称为“战争”?二,是否可称为“侵略”?也许真的是先进国家为了打击“恐怖主义”的正义战争!那么以色列多次进攻巴勒斯坦的战争又是什么性质呢?也许那些侵略别国的帝国主义掠夺战真的寿终正寝了,从此人类步入和平、繁荣的新时代，但愿如此!就人类来说,谁愿意见到和遭遇战乱?也许只有疯子才期求战乱。但是现在世界上的另一种现象，也是最突出的现象又怎样解释呢?如今到处在扩充军備,连英国这样所谓“福利国家”,也要更新核武器,为什么?难道他们富得“流油”连钱也不知道怎么化掉才好,只得任意挥霍!?我们但愿天下太平,但“树欲静而风不止”呀!如今许多人已经忘却了受帝国主义侵略的痛苦,好了疮疤忘了痛,那么去问问现在的拉丁美洲﹑非洲和中东那些信仰伊斯兰教的国家人民,他们会告诉你,帝国主义是否还健在?!<br><br>自苏联解体和东欧剧变以后,世界上产生各种各样的论调。有人认为马克思主义破产了,完蛋了,有人则认为不是马克思主义破产而是列宁主义破广，他们硬是将列宁主义和马克思主义分开，千方百计地论证列宁主义不是马克思主义。对斯大林主义和斯大林主义的罪恶倒很少谈起，就是谈起,也归罪于列宁。“沉渣浮起”!伯恩斯坦﹑考茨基们倒成了马克思主义的正统了,后期的普列哈诺夫和门雪维克也代���正确的了,加米尼夫和季诺维也夫反对十月暴动也无可指责的了。<br><br>按道理来说,苏联的解体并不奇怪,是人们意料中的事。六七十年前,伟大的马克思主义者托洛茨基已经预言:蜕化变质了的苏联,官僚专制统治的苏联，背叛和败坏了十月革命的苏联,摆在前面只有两条路:一是经过政治革命推翻官僚专制统治,恢复无产阶级专政,使苏联真正按社会主义道路发展,这样才有出路和光辉前途;另－条路是苏联彻底完蛋,资本主义复辟,如果让斯大林主义一直统治下去。历史的不幸,中了托氏的预言。因此苏联的解体只是表明斯大林主义的破产,斯大林主义模式的破产,没有损及马克思主义一根毫毛。<br><br>话说回来，现在一些人指责十月革命，如普列哈诺夫一一这老牌马克思主义者称十月革命为流氓无产阶级运功。我们都知道,十月革命前的俄罗斯还沒有完成资产阶级的民主革命任务,二月革命至十月革命,有着八个月的日子,在这不算短的日子里,政权在社会革命党﹑门雪维克﹑普列哈诺夫统一派等手里,是在以克伦茨基为代表的资产阶手里,当时布尔什维克还处在少数,为什么他们不去解决土地问题与和平问题，结果被这个本来处于少数的布尔维克的土地﹑和平﹑面包的口号击跨，让布尔什维克所领导的无产阶级﹑农民夺取了政权,而且十月革命后建立的无产阶级专政政权,很快解决了土地问题，并给人民以和平。为什么?列宁﹑托洛茨基这些马克思主义者早巳预言,在帝国主义时代,资产阶级是不能完成他们自己阶级的历史使命,资产阶级民主革命任务,落在无产阶级肩上,只有无产阶级领导农民,才能完成资产阶级的民主革命任务。随便人们怎样诋毁十月革命,她完成了民主革命的任务总是铁的事实;使俄罗斯人民摆脱了帝国主义战争－一第一次世畀大战总是铁的事实。<br><br>如这样的轰轰烈烈的史无前例的伟大的无产阶级社会主义革命运动，却被人们所推崇的所谓马克思主义者普列哈诺夫诬称为“流氓无产阶级运动”,这种诬称还被一些所谓学者所赞同，我真替他们感到汗额。人们很喜欢抓住列宁的－句话:“无产阶级专政不受法律约束”不放，事实上这句话有什么可大惊小怪的,历史上所有法律都是明文规定不得任意诬蔑别人,诬蔑是犯罪行为,在过去说是要“反坐”的,而法律却约束不了像普列哈诺夫这样人物,也约束不了还公开宣言“布尔什维克是暴力、残杀、专制和腐败的代名词”的人,如果这对斯大林主义者而言,倒是确切的,但用在布尔什维克身上,那就是诬蔑。这里应该指明:布尔什维克派同斯大林主义不是相同的,列宁主义不是斯大林主义。也许人们长时间受到的是“正统”教育,不了解世畀上的一些真实情况，我这里也不想多谈，因为我要写这篇《读后感》的重点不在这些。<br><br>法律约束不了如普列哈诺夫般的人，在阶级斗争你死我活的时候,为了保护新生的无产阶级政权，对资产阶级的反革命行为的镇压,还谈什么法律约束。难道说在资本主义国家,当无产阶级走上街头要夺取政权时,资产阶级镇压行为也会受法律约束么?法兰西的梯也尔在巴黎公社墙下枪杀公社社员时也受法律约束?法律本来就是维护统治阶级利益的,不要将法律神聖化,法律前面人人平等本来就是骗人的鬼话,法律的前提就是不平等,因为社会有阶级存在才有法律,当人人平等的时候,意味着阶级消亡,还要法律干什么?统治阶级根据自己的需要随时可以编写通过他们所需要的法律,斯大林根据自己独裁的需要颁发了“反革命”分子不得上诉判决后可以立即执行的律法,未满十八岁的儿童也可判刑的法律。所以列宁的话有什么可指责的呢?<br><br> (二)马克思的《资本论》第三卷<br><br>我笫一次看见奇特的耸人听闻的说法:马克思《资本论》第三卷是对《资本论》笫一卷的否定。真的是这样，那么伯恩斯坦﹑考茨基真的成为马克思主义的正统，对辛先生的发现，连伯恩斯坦们也甘拜下风了，因为他们致死也沒有这个发现。就连以往的资产阶级学者也沒有发现，这些人本来就一天到晚一年到头的工作就是挖空心思找马克思的差子。世界上的怪事真的不少,李敖也说马克思剽窃了人家。我说:李敖还出生得太迟,马克思真的有剽窃行为,早已被那些资产阶级学者揭发了,轮不到出生这样迟的李敖。<br>我也要翻翻《资本论》,它里边倒底怎样说的。<br><br>马克思在《资本论》笫三卷中说过:“在股份公司内，职能已经和资本所有权相分离，劳动也已经和生产资料的所有权和剩余劳动的所有权分离。……资本主义生产极度发展的这个结果,是一个必经的过渡点,以便资本再转化为生产者所有,不过这时它已经不是当作一个－个分立的生产者的私有财产,而是当作共同生产者共有财产,直接的社会财产。……”<br><br>也许马克思预料到将来有人从这几句话中要做文章,所以他还继续说:“在这里,剥夺已经由直接生产者,扩大到小资本家和中等资本家自己身上来了……跟着社会生产的发展,各种生产资料已不再是私有生产的资料和私有生产的产品,它们不过在共同生产者手里还能够是生产资料,并且是他们的社会財产,完全和它们是他们的社会的产品－样。不过,这种剥夺在资本主义制度本身之内,是表现在一种对抗的形式上,表现为少数人占有社会的财产。(《资本资》笫三卷Ｐ506)<br><br>辛先生一见到“社会的财产”,就兴高彩烈地以为资本主义可以和平过渡至社会主义了,他忘了马克思进一步的论述:这虽然是“社会财产”,但还是在资本主义制度下,还是“表现为少数人占有”。<br><br>所以马克思在本章里,曾再三强调:垄断取代自由競争,本身还是在资本主义体制内部的扬弃。马克思在《资本论》第一卷中所论证的资本主义的主要矛盾,即社会化生产与私的占有矛盾,在这里已发展至登峰造极的地步了。马克思的观点:资本主义的经济危机和无产阶级是资本主义的掘墓人,立脚点就是在这个主要矛盾上。<br><br>要使这社会财产真正的为社会所占有,只有进行革命,建立无产阶级专政,和平过渡是过渡不了的。<br><br>现在我们进一步了解人们所歌颂的资本主义“股份制”马克思怎样论述的?<br><br>马克思说：“因为所有权在这里是存在于股票的形式上,所以它的运动和转移就纯粹变成了证券交易所赌博的结果,在这种赌博上,小鱼为大鱼所吞,羊为交易所的豺狼所杀;在旧形式内,社会的生产资料是当作个人财产出现的,那种和旧形式相反的性质,在股份制度内已无存在;不过这个转向股份形式的转化,还是局限在资本主义限界之内,所以,股份制度并沒有克服财富当作社会财富和当作私有财富的性质上的对立,却不过在－个新的形式上发展了它”。(《资本论》第三卷ｐ508<br><br>我真的替辛先生感到遗憾,翻遍《资本论》第三卷全部书页,也找不到一句甚至半句有否定《资本论》第一卷的话。不过我还是奉劝辛先生,读《资本论》这类书,千莫大意,一点儿疏忽都不行,更不能随心所欲地去“断章取义”。我这里也得说清,我没有半点教训人的意念。<br><br> (三)卡•马克思《1948年至1850年的法兰西阶级斗争》一书导言<br><br>辛先生还有一个惊人的说法:恩格斯逝世前五个月,曾自我检讨,承认他和马克思过去所犯的错误,因此恩格斯否定了以往在《共产党宣言》中他和马克思的观点,恩格斯的新观点的就在这篇《导言》之中阐明。<br><br>几＋年前,我读过恩格斯导言,怎么没有留下如辛先生说的那个印象,也许当时是走马看花而已!伯恩斯坦等这些大师也没有在导言中找出证明自己观点的论据,岂不怪哉!<br>我也不得不再次详读导言。<br><br>的确,恩格斯这样说:“历史表明我们也曾错了,我们当时所持的观点只是一个幻想,,历史做的还要更多;它不仅消除了我们当时的迷误,并且还完全改变了无产阶级进行斗争的条件。1848年的斗争方法,今天在一切方面都已经陈旧了,这一点是值得在这里较仔细地加以研究。”<br><br>这里必须着重指出::辛先生在他的文章中也摘引导言中这段话,而在“1848年的斗争方法”下面加上“引者注”,这“引者注”怎么说呢?说“指《共产党宣言》中说的暴力革布”。这样的“注”对读者是一误导,是一种不光彩的作法,同时有意歪曲恩格斯的原意。<br><br>恩格斯说1848年的斗争方法指什么呢?决不指《共产党宣言》中所主张的“暴力革命”,指的是“暴力革命”原则下的斗争策略:“街垒战”。他认为“街垒战”即“像两支军队交战那样的胜利,也是同样罕见的”。“历史表明我们错了”,就是在1848年的革命斗争中,,马恩二人却曾主张“街垒战”这个策略.同时他们还认为1848年二月革命暴发后,“伟大的决战巳开始,这决战定将在一个很长的和充满变迁的革命时期中进行到底,然而结局只能是无产阶级获得最终胜利”。而1848年的革命却失败了,对时局的估计和革命斗争策略运用上,他们有错误.<br><br>为了无产阶级社会主义革命胜利,必须改变斗争策略.他认为“由自觉的少数人带领不自觉的群众实现革命的时代已经过去,凡是问题在于要把社会制度完全改造的���方,群众自己就应该参加进去,自己就应明白为什么进行斗争,他什么流血牺牲……为了使群众明白应该作什么,还必须进行长期而坚忍的工作……”<br>为了达到这样的目的,恩格斯在这里提出新的斗争策略就是要求各国党争取普选权。他说:“《共产党宣言》早已宣布争取普选权,争取民主,是战斗无产阶级的首要任务之－”。<br><br>他说:“由向来是欺骗的工具变为解放的工具。并且,即使普选权再没有提供什么别的好处,只是使我们能够每三年计算一次自己的力量,只是通过定期标志出的选票数目的意外迅速的增长,同样地既加强工人的胜利信心,又加强敌人的恐惧,因而成了我们最好的宣传手段;只是给我们提供了关干我们自身力量和各个敌对党派力量的精确情报,从而给予了我一根估计我们行功的比例尺,使我们既可避免不合时宜的畏缩,又可避免不合时宜的蛮勇,一一即使这是选举权所给予我们的唯一的好处,那也就很够了。……”<br><br>恩格斯还例举了选举权给党带来其他种种好处,就是没有说选举权和议会斗争可以使资本主义和平地过渡到社会主义,避免暴力,避免流血斗争。<br><br>恩格斯还特别提到德国社民党(当时还没有变为修正主义的党),他说要将225万选民构成“突击队”,“不是要把这个日益增强的突击队在前哨战中消灭掉,而是要把它好好地保存到决战的那一天。”<br><br>这“决战的那一天”指的是什么,只有白痴不了解。<br><br>恩格斯还是明确了问题的实质:“不言而喻,我们的外国同志们是决不会因此而放弃自己的革命权。须知革命权是唯一的真正“历史权利”。(《马恩全集》笫22卷ｐ591一612)<br><br>结论是:这篇导言,恩格斯承认他和马克思对特定的历史时期的局势估计错误,同时指出1848年革命策略已经过时,党应改变斗争策略,这个策略就是《共产党宣言》已经提出过的:争取普选权和民主权利。争取普选权不是放弃暴力革命,不是以议会斗争使资本主义和平长入社会主义。<br><br>在马克思的《法兰西内战》中,恩格斯也写了篇导言,该导言最后说:“近来,社会民主党的庸人又是－听到无产阶级专政就吓得大喊救命。先生们,你们想知道无产阶级专政是什么样子吗?请看黎公社吧,这就是无产阶级专政”。两篇导言,贯串着一条红线:无产阶级革命暴力无疑是新社会诞生的助产婆!<br><br>现回顾一下十月革命。布尔什维克党的革命策略实践,是恩格斯在导言中表明的思想最好的詮释:布尔什维克党在革命斗争中,曾以召开“立宪会议”作为民主斗争的策略口号。二月革命后,俄罗斯出现“苏维埃”组织,在工农兵苏维埃中,开始时,布尔什维克党的代表,处在少数,经过耐心的宣传鼓动和争取,布党代表人数渐渐成为多数,多数的工人.农民和士兵都汇集在布党的周围。布党在彼得格勒迴避了临时政府挑战,避免了“七月事变”中无谓牺牲。这样保护了且发展了“突击队”!当十月时机成熟时,一举夺得政权。虽然十月革命是一场暴力革命,在彼得格勒除了攻打冬宫有一场战斗外,几乎在和和平平的情况下夺得政权。冬宫的士官生和娘子军,只要放下武器,就让他们平安回家。历史学家多伊彻说:“十月起义中各方牺牲的人总共只有十个。它造成巨大规模的社会变动,而使用的暴力在历史上同类的变动中却最少。革命不是依靠枪杆,而是依靠言辞丶争论和说服取胜的……(多伊彻《暴力与非暴力》天益社区网)因此我文章第一部分“联想”中说:说“布尔什维克是暴力丶恐怖丶残杀丶专制和腐败的代名词”是一诬词,不过分吧?<br><br>十月革命中革命党布尔什维克与其领袖,百分之百的执行了马克思和恩格斯的革命路线和革命的战略和策略方针,还有什么理由说列宁主义不是马克思主义?<br><br> (四)关于世界上那些所谓“民主社会主义国家”<br><br>苏联解体以后,不仅是谢先生和辛先生,我接触过的许多许多人,都很向往“民主社会主义”。如果资本主义真正能和平长入社会主义,不要流血,不要死人,谁不向往呢?马克思主义主张暴力革命也是“无可奈何”的,谁愿意拿生命当儿嬉?但是历史老人总是百般刁难,旧制度总是不愿意痛痛快快地退出历史舞台,它总要做垂死挣扎。“民主社会主义”也是乌托邦。<br><br>我们先看看二十世纪下半页历史,印尼的蘇加諾主张建设民主社会主义,印尼共产党与其合作,结局是遭受军队头子的军事政变,一枕黄粱。再看智利,,阿连德上台以后,也要建设民主社会主义,后来也遭受军人皮诺切特的军事政变,阿连德总统,以身殉职,民主社会主义也成泡影。这也证明,沒有无产阶级专政的铁拳,就沒有办法防止和抵御反动分子的进攻。这也是血的教训!<br><br>我们再看看欧洲那些要建设民主社会主义的社会党或社会民主党吧!德国社会民主党已经早早下台了,法国社会党长期不振。而就在前些天时瑞典社会民主党也倒台了,最近一次大选败给中右联盟。瑞典的问题是社会党长期执政的国家,搞福利制度最典型的北欧国家之－,也是先生们所向往所歌颂的民主社会主义国家,由于税负太重,在这全球化的年代,税负太重的必然后果就是资本外流,经济衰退“他们的失败,是迟早的事情”。匈牙利社会党也出现政治危机。英国工党也引起众怒了,私有化丶战争,布莱自挖坟墓。<br>“自20世纪20年代以来,社会党一直充当资产阶级的统治支柱,现在,就是连这样的支柱也早已开始瓦解了”。<br><br>“不是被哪个派击败的,是被资本主义自身危机所累”,这就是结论!<br><br>上面有关社会党和社会民主党现在的处境,和所谓民主社会主义的实际情况,不是信口开河的胡说,这些资料都抄于天益社区网。都是最近最新的信息。其中一篇的题目为《欧洲社会党是怎么回事了》,2006年9月由光辉十月编辑的。有根有据决非胡说。<br><br>看来民主社会主义也有些不妙!我倒没有幸灾乐祸,不过我担心的是那些向往这些福利国家的大人先生们以后怎样过?怎么办?<br><br><br> 2006丶12丶20。</span><br>
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<br>如果你标榜民主自由，请你遵守你的信条，不要作卑鄙的事情（例如黑左派的网站）。
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[楼 主]
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<b>Posted:</b>2007-01-17 05:19|</td>
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级别: 侠客<br>
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发帖: <b>129</b><br>
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<br><span class="tpc_content">摸石头过河的彼岸就是社会民主党，就是西方的现代资本主义<br><br>——谢韬《民主社会主义模式与中国前途》一文读后<br><br> <br>作者: 两个务必 <br>日期: 2007-02-07 11:38<br><br><br>中国人民大学前副校长谢韬先生的《民主社会主义模式与中国前途》一文中提到的恩格斯《马克思（1948——1850年法兰西阶级斗争）一书导言》一文发表后，所有的资产阶级学者与党内的机会主义者，已经早于中国现代修正主义者一百多年就开始歪曲恩格斯的观点，认为恩格斯晚年修正了马克思与他原来的观点，力主“放弃暴力革命”、“利用议会斗争代替阶级斗争”。<br><br>但是这些无耻的谰言似乎早在恩格斯的预料之中，在他临终时发表声明：<br><br>“我认为，如果你们宣扬绝对放弃暴力行为，是决捞不到任何好处的。没有人会相信这一点，也没有任何一个国家的任何一个政党会走得这么远，竟然放弃拿起武器对抗不法行为这一权利。”（《全集》卷39p401）<br><br>恩格斯在1889年的信件中这样写到：<br><br>“无产阶级不通过暴力革命就不可能夺取自己的政治统治，即通往新社会的唯一的大门，在这一点上，我们的意见是一致的。要使无产阶级在决定关头强大到足以取得胜利，无产阶级必须（马克思和我从1847年以来就坚持这种立场）组成一个不同于其它所有政党并与他们对立的特殊政党，一个自觉的阶级政党。”（《选集》卷4p685）<br><br>恩格斯在《1891年社会民主党纲领草案批判》说：<br><br>“因为回想起在这项法律统治下发表的一些草率的言论，就忽然认为，德国目前的法律状况就使党足以通过和平方式实现自己的一切要求。他们力图使自己和党相信，‘现代的社会正在长入社会主义’，------为了眼前暂时的利益而忘记根本大计，只图一时的成就而不顾后果，为了运动的现在而牺牲运动的未来，这种做法可能也是出于‘真诚的’动机。但这是机会主义，始终是机会主义，而且‘真诚的’机会主义也许比其他机会主义更危险。”（《选集》卷四412）<br><br>谢韬先生文中有关马恩对现代资本主义的描述���分，也是对马克思主义的极大歪曲。正如列宁对恩格斯晚年的论述时说：“这里抓住了现代资本主义即帝国主义理论评价中最主要的东西，即资本主义转化为垄断资本主义。”列宁认为，垄断的出现，不表明资本主义生产方式能够解决自身固有的矛盾，只表明资产阶级试图通过调节生产、调节价格、利润来缓和矛盾，垄断的出现不能消除竞争，反而会导致国内并扩及到世界的竞争加剧，更加深了资本主义的生产方式与生产关系的矛盾。当代资本主义的全球化的发展，已经清楚的证明了列宁的论断。<br><br>不过谢韬先生的文章还是给我们一个启示，从所谓的改革到现在的毫不动摇，说是马克思主义的最新成果，但是与老修正主义者的论调没有什么二致，都是重复马克思主义诞生以来就有的修正老调。摸石头过河的彼岸就是社会民主党，就是西方的现代资本主义。不过，过去曾看过一个资料，说欧洲的社会民主党已经把社会主义从纲领中删除，也许是对中国的修正主义者们一个耳光。</span><br>
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<br><span class="tpc_content">民主社会主义不是社会主义的一种模式<br><br><br><br>周新城 <br><br> <br><br> 一、马克思恩格斯曾对各种各样自称为社会主义的思想作过阶级分析，指出有封建社会主义、小资产阶级社会主义、资产阶级社会主义。这些所谓的“社会主义”，本质上并不是社会主义。只有科学社会主义才是代表工人阶级利益的社会主义，只有在科学社会主义指导下才能建立社会主义制度。<br> 二、谈到社会主义的模式问题，应该区分社会主义本质特征和这些本质特征的具体实现形式这样两个层次。社会主义，作为一种社会制度，它具有自身固有的、与其他社会制度相区别的本质特征，这些本质特征就是：政治上，无产阶级政党掌握政权，实行无产阶级专政；经济上，建立生产资料公有制，实行按劳分配，逐步实现共同富裕；思想上，马克思主义处于指导地位。体现这些本质特征的就是社会主义的基本制度。具有这些本质特征，才能称之为社会主义；抛弃了这些本质特征，就不能叫社会主义。在这一层次上，社会主义不存在不同模式，这是社会主义的统一性。在社会主义本质特征的具体实现形式这一层次上，即在具体的体制、运行机制方面，各个社会主义国家应当根据不同的历史条件和本国的具体国情，自行探索，走自己的道路，不能照搬别的国家的做法，而且随着条件的变化应该不断进行改革。在这一层次上，社会主义存在、而且应该有不同的模式。每一个国家建设社会主义既要坚持社会主义的共性，又要探索本国建设社会主义的特殊性。<br> 民主社会主义尽管打着“社会主义”的旗号，但它反对无产阶级政党掌握政权，主张实行听任资产阶级政党夺取政权的多党制；反对无产阶级专政，赞成以议会民主、三权分立为形式的资产阶级专政；反对公有制占主体地位，要求实行私有化；反对马克思主义为指导，主张指导思想多元化。它否定的是社会主义的本质特征。否定了社会主义的共性，不赞成社会主义的基本制度，怎么还会是社会主义的一种模式呢？<br> 西欧有的国家社会党、社会民主党执政几年、几十年以后，自己也承认仍是资本主义国家，而苏联在戈尔巴乔夫当政的短短几年时间里，推行人道的民主社会主义路线，很快就从社会主义演变成为资本主义。这一事实说明，民主社会主义不是社会主义的一种模式，它是资本主义，只不过主张对资本主义作若干改良而已；在社会主义国家里，民主社会主义则是从社会主义过渡到资本主义的桥梁。<br> 三、把社会主义理解为某些“全人类共同的价值”，例如民主、���由、平等、公正等等，是错误的。社会主义是一种由生产力的社会性质所决定的、必然代替资本主义的崭新的社会制度，而不是某种价值观的体现。作为价值观，“民主、自由、平等、公正”是社会经济关系反映到人们头脑里的观念，因而它是历史的、具体的，不同社会里有不同含义的“民主、自由、平等、公正”，没有一个适用于各种社会形态的统一的价值观。即使在同一个社会里，不同阶级出于自身的阶级利益，赋予“民主、自由、平等、公正”这些概念以不同的、甚至是对立的内涵。在阶级社会里，并不存在抽象的、全人类共同的“民主、自由、平等、公正”。民主社会主义鼓吹的“民主、自由、平等、公正”等等原则，实际上是资产阶级的价值观念。戈尔巴乔夫直言不讳地承认这一点。他说：“俄国1917年革命是法国大革命所追求的自由、平等、博爱的回声，同时也是实际实现这些崇高理想的大胆尝试。”十月革命只是朝着“法国革命宣布的人和公民的自由以及个性自由”这一目标向前迈进的一步。可见，他是把资产阶级的自由、平等、博爱作为全人类共同的“崇高理想”，并要为之奋斗的。那样的“民主、自由、平等、公正”，能成为社会主义的原则吗？<br> 四、对民主社会主义必须作具体分析。从根本性质来说，民主社会主义是一股反马克思主义的资产阶级思潮，社会党是资产阶级性质的政党，我们在意识形态上必须与之划清界限，因为它们不想推翻资本主义制度，只想对资本主义做点改良。应该看到科学社会主义与民主社会主义是有原则区别的，不能借口相互学习，否定自己的基本理论和实践，模糊两者的原则界限。但是，社会党终究是资本主义范围内的左翼，在不触动雇佣劳动制度这一资本主义基本制度的前提下，它们在一定程度上维护劳动人民的利益，这是它们与保守党等资产阶级右翼不同的地方。它们在执政期间为加强执政地位所采取的某些具体做法也值得我们借鉴。所以，在党际关系上，我们主张在四项原则基础上加强同社会党开展合作和交流。<br> 有人认为，民主社会主义走社会主义的一种模式，而且它是针对“斯大林模式”的弊病提出来的，因而是更加完善的社会主义模式。他们认为，“斯大林模式”应该否定得越彻底越好，我国的改革应该抛弃“斯大林模式”，走民主社会主义的道路。他们批评说，反对民主社会主义，就是以我划线，“不符合我们的标准，就是修正主义、假社会主义、非社会主义”，这是“自我封闭、白我僵化、自我束缚、白我孤立”，“结果是马克思主义得不到发展，社会主义阵营难以壮大”。在他们看来，批判民主社会主义、划清科学社会主义与民主社会主义的界限，是不对的。<br> 这里，我们不来评价“斯大林模式”，这是另外一个问题。我们只想说明一点：民主社会主义不是社会主义的一种模式，而是资本主义的一种模式，是作若干改良的资本主义。<br> 在历史上，许多揭露资本主义制度弊病的人，往往自称为“社会主义”者。马克思恩格斯在《共产党宣言》里曾经对各种各样的“社会主义”做过阶级分析，指出：有被“可恨的暴发户”打败了的封建贵族批评资本主义的“封建社会主义”，有“用小资产阶级和小农的尺度去批判资产阶级制度”的“小资产阶级社会主义”，也有“资产阶级中的一部分人想消除社会的弊病，以便保障资产阶级社会的生存”的“保守的或资产阶级的社会主义”。马克思恩格斯对这些所谓的“社会主义”一一作了批判，指出这些所谓的“社会主义”从来不代表工人阶级的利益，也就是说，本质上不是社会主义。他们对“批判的空想的社会主义和共产主义”作了全面的分析，一方面肯定空想社会主义代表了“工人阶级这一受苦最深的阶级的利益”，“提供了启发工人觉悟的极为宝贵的材料”；另一方面指出它“看不到无产阶级方面的任何历史主动性”，用“幻想的条件”来取代“解放的历史条件”，陷入空想。空想社会主义是在无产阶级与资产阶级之间的斗争还不发达的最初时期出现的，它的意义是同历史的发展成反比的，阶级斗争越发展和越具有确定的形式，它就越失去任何实践意义。<br> 社会主义是工人阶级获得解放的思想和制度。从历史的经验看，不是自己命名为“社会主义”就是社会主义，只有科学社会主义才是代表工人阶级利益的社会主义，只有在科学社会主义指导下才能建立社会主义制度。<br> 主张民主社会主义是社会主义的一种模式的人强调，不能把我国的建设中国特色社会主义的理论和实践作为判断是不是社会主义的标准，社会主义可以而且应当有不同的模式。有意思的是，国内某些人承认民主社会主义“对资本主义是认同的”，但却认为它是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派。认同资本主义制度，怎么还能是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派呢？更有人把美国民主党也看作是民主社会上义，把最近民主党在议会里两次取得多数，称之为美国已经“赤化”，走上了社会主义道路。连眼前的美国也成了社会主义的样板，可见，在他们的心目里，民主社会主义实际上就是资本主义。<br> 某些学者提出，“民主社会主义将社会主义理解为通过民主和渐进改良不断促进和实现‘自由、公正、团结’的基本价值”，这是值得我们借鉴的，“有助于我们深化对社会主义的理解”。把社会主义说成是某些“全人类共同的价值”，这是完全错误的。戈尔巴乔夫就鼓吹，社会主义本质上并不是一种社会制度，而是一种与社会制度没有必然联系的、在任何条件下都可以实现的组织科会生活的原则和过程。这些原则和过程是以若干基本价值为内容、并围绕它们展开的。他把社会主义概括为这样一些伦理性价值观念：“人道主义和全人类价值原则；民主自由原则；社会公正原则：爱国主义和族际主义原则。”所以，戈尔巴乔夫说，社会主义是“社会逐渐失去其原先状态的一种实际运动”，只要不断实现这些伦理原则就是社会主义。从这一理解出发，他认为资本主义正在和平地长入社会主义。这种说法显然是违反马克思主义的。马克思主义认为，社会主义是一种由生产力的社会性质所决定的、必然代替资本主义的崭新的社会制度。从基本制度角度来说，社会主义同资本主义是对立的，社会主义制度不可能在资本主义制度内出现，它必须在无产阶级政党领导下，通过无产阶级革命，打碎资产阶级国家机器，建立无产阶级专政，推翻资本主义制度才能诞生。这里，任何“民主、自由、公正、团结”的说教都是无济于事的。社会党曾经在欧洲几个国家里执政几年、十几年，宣称实施了这些原则，但丝毫没有改变这些国家的资本主义性质。<br> 民主社会主义宣传的“民主、自由、平等、公正”等等价值，听起来十分动听、富有魅力，似乎谁都会赞成。有人正是因此而衷心拥护民主社会主义的。然而作为一种价值观，“民主、自由、平等、公正”是社会经济关系反映到人们头脑里的观念，因而它是历史的、具体的，不同社会里有不同含义的“民主、自由、平等、公正”，没有一个适用于各种社会形态的统一的价值观。即使在同一个社会里，不同阶级出于自身的阶级利益，赋予“民主、自由、平等、公正”这些概念以不同的、甚至是对立的内涵。在阶级社会里，并不存在抽象的、全人类共同的“民主、自由、平等、公正”。我们以民主为例。民主社会主义吹嘘民主是“人类文明伟大的价值观”，是“全人类的理想”，其实这种说法不过是考茨基“纯粹民主”的翻版。正如列宁指出的：“如果不是嘲弄理智和历史，那就很明显：只要有不同的阶级存在，就不能说‘纯粹民主’，而只能说阶级的民主。”谈论“纯粹民主”，目的是“蒙敝工人，以便回避现代民主即资本主义民主的资产阶级实质。”自由，历来是资产阶级学者用来攻击社会主义的工具，哈耶克就说社会主义违反自由，是“通向奴役之路”。其实，自由是有阶级性的，资产阶级有资产阶级的自由，无产阶级有无产阶级的自由。不同阶级的自由甚至是对立的，有了资产阶级雇用工人的自由，就没有工人免遭剥削的自由。阶级社会里没有一个统一的适用于各个阶级的自由。公平、公正也是一样。恩格斯在批判蒲鲁东小资产阶级社会主义的“永恒公平”时指出，公平“始终只是现存经济关系的或者反映其保守方面，或者反映其革命方面的观念化的神圣化的表现。希腊人和罗马人的公平认为奴隶制度是公平的；1789年资产者的公平要求废除封建制度，因为据说它不公平。在普鲁士的容克看来，甚至可怜的行政区域条例也是对永恒公平的破坏。所以关于永恒公平的观念不仅因时因地而变，甚至也同人而异……”。在不同社会制度下，公平的标准是不一样的。奴隶社会有奴隶社会的公平标准，封建社会有封建社会的公平标准，而资本主义社会则有资本主���社会的公平标准。而且不同的阶级由于阶级利益的差别，对公平、公正的理解也是不一样的。在资本主义社会里，资本家认为资本获得利润是天经地义的事，是最公平不过的了；但在工人看来，利润是资本家凭借生产资料所有权无偿占有的工人劳动创造的剩余价值，这是剥削，是不公平的。<br> 其实，民主社会主义鼓吹的“民主、自由、平等、公正”等等原则，如果撇开漂亮的词藻，抓住背后隐含的实质，应该说，他们所说的这些原则并不是“全人类共同的价值”，而不过是资产阶级的价值观念。戈尔巴乔夫直言不讳地承认这一点。他说：“俄国1917年革命是法国大革命所追求的自由、平等、博爱的回声，同时也是实际实现这些崇高理想的大胆尝试。”十月革命只是朝着“法国革命宣布的人和公民的自由以及个性自由”这一目标向前迈进的一步。可见，他是把资产阶级的自由、平等、博爱作为全人类共同的“崇高理想”，并要为之奋斗的。那样的“民主、自由、平等、公正”，能成为社会主义的原则吗？<br> 对民主社会主义必须作具体分析。从根本性质来说，民主社会主义是一股反马克思工义的资产阶级思潮，社会党是资产阶级性质的政党，我们在意识形态上必须与之划清界限，因为它们不想推翻资本主义制度，只想对资本主义做点改良。应该看到科学社会主义与民主社会主义是有原则区别的，不能借口相互学习，否定自己的基本理论和实践，模糊两者的原则界限。但是，社会党终究是资本主义范围内的左翼，在不触动雇佣劳动制度这一资本主义基本制度的前提下，它们在一定程度上维护劳动人民的利益，这是它们与保守党等资产阶级右翼不同的地方。它们在执政期间为加强执政地位所采取的某些具体做法也值得我们借鉴。所以，在党际关系上，我们主张在四项原则基础上加强同社会党开展合作和交流。<br> 我们党对民主社会主义的实质有着清醒的认识。早在1990年苏共中央二月全会提出实行多党制后，我们党中央就明确指出，“戈尔巴乔夫提出的‘新思维’和‘人道的民主社会上义’，背离了马克思列宁主义的基本原则，实际上是第二国际社会民主主义在新的历史条件下的表现。”“戈尔巴乔夫的‘改革’根本不是什么完善社会上义制度，而是向资本主义方向演变。”中央提出，全党要“划清马克思列宁主义与反马克思列宁主义、社会主义与资本主义、科学社会主义与民主社会主义的界限。”苏联“8.19”事件发生后，我们党又重申这一点。1991年底，在苏联行将解体的时候，我们党中央义明确指出：“苏联东欧的变化，并不是科学社会主义的失败，而是放弃社会主义道路的结果，证明了民主社会主义的破产。”这些论断在当前仍有重大的意义。<br> （《环球视野》）</span><br>
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<br><span class="tpc_content">评对民主社会主义的“再认识”<br><br>辛程<br><br>读者来信<br><br>《中华魂》编辑部：<br><br>贵刊的“忘年交书简”栏目为我们年轻人释疑解惑，我很爱读。最近我们一些年轻人聚在一起，常常议论一个问题，这就是怎样认识民主社会主义的问题。例如，一位据称曾是毛泽东的秘书、以毛泽东研究权威自诩的人，前些时候接受德国之声新闻网采访，就径直断言：“我们有三个垄断，一个政治的垄断，一个经济的垄断，一个思想的垄断。”我们虽然读书不多，但某些常识多少还是涉猎过的，例如所谓“三个垄断”的提法便是民住社会主义那来攻击科学社会主义的。这个人在访谈中还说：“我们这种社会主义叫什么社会主义呀？讲得难听一点叫做专制社会主义”。我们奉行的科学社会主义既然被称作“专制社会主义”，此人主��的当然是其对立面，即民主社会主义了。这不过是一个小例子，如今报刊上宣传民主社会主义主张的，提出要对民主社会主义加以再认识的，在我们孤陋寡闻的狭小天地内也并不鲜见。那么，究竟因该怎样认识民主社会主义，它的正误和利弊如何，我们对它应取何种态度，这些实在很有弄清楚的必要。为此，我们把这个问题向贵刊提出来，望转给对此有研究的专家学者，予以赐复，不胜感激。<br><br>致以<br><br>崇高的敬礼！<br><br>青年学生 阎梅庵<br><br>复信<br><br>阎梅庵同学：<br><br>《中华魂》编辑部转来了你的信件，拜读之余，深为你探求真理的精神所感动。我很乐意来回答你的问题。<br><br>最近，国内确实掀起了一股重新评价民主社会主义的热潮，引起了人们的关注。又一篇文章说，过去批判民主社会主义，是“唯我独革”、“唯我独社”、“唯我独马”的僵化思维，“不能以开放的眼光看待世界，自我封闭、自我僵化、自我束缚、自我孤立，对社会主义的理解片面化、简单化、固定化、狭隘化，结果是马克思主义得不到发展，社会主义阵营难以壮大。”因此必须对民主社会主义进行“再认识”。有人提出要“为民主社会主义正名，为中国共产党向民主社会主义转变扫清障碍”。有人甚至说：“民主社会主义是马克思主义的正统，是马克思主义的最高成果。”“只有民主社会主义才能救中国！”如何看待民主社会主义思潮，事关我国社会发展方向，有必要认真对待。<br><br>民主社会主义是什么性质的思潮<br><br>民主社会主义是从伯恩斯坦、考茨基的社会民主主义思潮演变而来的。列宁曾经同这股思潮作过坚决的斗争，这一段历史，大家非常熟悉，无须赘述。上世纪80年代末、90年代初，苏联苏东国家推行以戈尔巴乔夫的“新思维”为代表的民主社会主义路线，导致无产阶级政权遭到颠覆、社会制度由社会主义演变成为资本主义，这一事实充分揭示了民主社会主义是一股反马克思主义的资产阶级思潮，他不是社会主义的一种模式，而是做了若干改良的资本主义。我们党对民主社会主义性至及其危害有着清醒的认识。早在1990年苏共中央二月全会提出实行多党制后，我们党中央就明确指出，“戈尔巴乔夫提出的‘新思维和‘人道的民主的社会主义’，背离了马克思列宁主义的基本原则，实际上是第二国际社会民主主义在新的历史条件下的表现。”“戈尔巴乔夫的‘改革’根本不是什么完善社会主义制度，而是向资本主义方向演变。”中央提出，全党要“划清马克思列宁主义与反马克思列宁主义、社会主义与资本主义、科学社会主义与民主社会主义的界限。”苏联“8.19”事件发生后，我们党又重申这一点。<br><br>民主社会主义思潮在社会主义国家里起什么样的作用？这个问题在苏东剧变以后，本来已经是十分清楚的了。然而东巨变的尘埃刚刚落定，为什么我们国内就有人忘记了苏联亡党亡国的沉痛教训，又起劲地鼓吹民主社会主义，要对民主社会主义进行“再认识”呢？应该看到，当前民主社会主义思潮在我国得到一定程度上的蔓延并不是偶然的事情，它是由国际共产主义运动总的形势决定。正如列宁指出的：“机会主义不是偶然的现象，不是个别人的罪孽、过错和叛变，而是整个历史时代的社会产物。”①作为一种资产阶级思潮，民主社会主义（社会民主主义）的命运是与资本主义的兴衰密切联系在一起的。一百多年来国际共产主义运动的历史表明，每当资本主义发生危机、工人运动蓬勃开展的时期，民主社会主义思潮的影响就大大缩小；而当资本主义相对稳定、工人运动处于低潮的时期，民主社会主义思潮就会迅速蔓延。这股思潮变迁的基本规律性就是如此。苏东剧变以后，世界社会主义运动跌如低潮，一时间在某些人看来，似乎马克思主义不灵了，科学社会主义不灵了，资本主义的改良主义才是唯一的出路。于是民主社会主义泛滥起来，甚至喊出只有民主社会主义才能救中国的口号。这是“革命低潮综合症”的典型表现。<br><br>肯定和赞扬民主社会主义的人认为，民主社会主义是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派、而且与斯大林模式相比较，它是更加完善的模式，因而值得我们学习和借鉴。这实难令人信服。应当指出，民主社会主义不是社会主义的一种模式，他主张保留资本主义，只是要对资本主义作若干改良，因而是资本主义的一种模式、一个流派。标榜“社会主义”，不等于就是社回注意的一种模式��一个流派。在历史上，许多揭露资本主义制度弊病的人，往往自称为“社会主义”者。马克思恩格斯在《共产党宣言》里曾经对各重各样的社会主义作过阶级分析，指出：有被“可恨的暴发户”打败了的封建贵族批评资本主义的“封建社会主义”，有“用小资产阶级和小农的尺度去批判资产阶级制度”的“小资产阶级社会主义”，也有“资产阶级中的一部分人想消除社会的弊病，以便保障资产阶级社会的生存”的“保守的或资产阶级的社会主义”。②马克思恩格斯对这些所谓的“社会主义”——作了批判，指出这些所谓的“社会主义”从来不代表工人阶级的利益，也就是说，不是社会主义。他们对“批判的空想的社会主义和共产主义”也作了全面的分析，一方面肯定空想社会主义代表了“工人阶级这一受苦最深的阶级的利益”，“提供了启发工人觉悟的极为宝贵的材料”；另一方面指出它“看不到无产阶级方面的任何历史主动性”，用“幻想的条件”来取代“解放的历史条件”，陷入空想。空想社会主义是在无产阶级与资产阶级的斗争还不发达的最初时期出现的，它的意义是同历史的发展成反比的，阶级斗争越发展和越具有确定的形式，它就越失去任何实践意义。③<br>社会主义是工人阶级获得解放的思想和制度。从历史的经验看，不是自己命名为“社会主义”就是社会主义，只有建立在唯物史观和剩余价值学说基础上的科学社会主义才是代表工人阶级根本利益的社会主义，只有在科学社会主义指导下才能建立社会主义制度。<br><br>科学社会会主义的共性和个性<br><br>主张民主社会主义是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派的人强调，不能把我们建社中国特色社会主义的理论和实践作为判断是不是社会主义的标准，社会主义可以而且应当有不同的模式。谈到社会主义的不同模式、不同流派问题，应该区分社会主义本质特征和这些本质特征的具体实现形式这样两层意思。社会主义并不是可以到处乱贴的标签，不是名称上有“社会主义”的字样，它就是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派。作为一种社会制度，社会主义具有自身固有的、与其他社会制度相区别的本质特征，这些本质特征就是：政治上，无偿阶级政党掌握政权，实行无产阶级专政；经济上建立生产资料公有制，实行按劳分配，逐步实现共同富裕；思想上，马克思主义居于指导地位。这也就是你来信中提到的那位据称是毛泽东的秘书、自诩为毛泽东研究权威的人所诬蔑的“三个垄断”。具有这些本质特征，才能称之为社会主义；抛弃了这些本质特征，就不能叫社会主义。在这一层次上，社会主义不存在不同模式，这是社会主义的统一性。在社会主义本质特征的具体实现形式着一层次上，即在具体的体制、运行机制方面，各个社会主义国家应当根据不同的历史条件和本国的具体国情，自行探索，走自己的道路，不能照搬别的国家的做法，而且随着条件的变化应该不断进行改革。在这一层次上，社会主义存在，而且应该有不同的模式。每一个国家建设社会主义，既要坚持社会主义的共性，又要探索本国建设社会主义的个性。决不能借口社会主义有不同模式，把否定社会主义本质特征的那一套制度也说城市社会主义的一种模式。<br><br>民主社会主义尽管打着“社会主义”的旗号，但他反对无产阶级政党掌握政权，主张实行听任资产阶级政党夺取政权的多党制；反对无产阶级专政，赞成以议会民主、三权分立为形式的资产阶级专政；反对公有制占主体地位，要求实行私有化；反对马克思主义为指导，主张指导思想多元化。他不是在坚持社会主义本质特征的前提下，结合本国具体国情，探索本国特有的实现这些本质特征的具体形式，探索本国社会主义建设的具体道路，而是根本否定和反对社会主义的本质特征。既然否定了社会主义的本质特征，不赞成社会主义的基本制度，怎么还会是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派呢？苏联在戈尔巴乔夫党政的短短几年时间里，推行人道的民主的社会主义路线，很快就从社会主义演变成为资本主义，这一事实说明，民主社会主义不是社会主义的一种模式，在社会主义国家里，民主社会主义是从社会主义过渡到资本主义的桥梁。民主社会主义的实质是资本主义，只不过主张对资本主义作若干改良而已。<br><br>有意思的是，提出“再认识”的人承认民主社会主义“对资本主义是认同的”，但却认为它是社会主义的一种模式、一个流派。���同资本主义制度，却是社会主义的一派，真不知道这些人的理论逻辑是什么！<br><br>提出“再认识”的人说：“民主社会主义将社会主义理解为通过民主和渐进改良不断促进和实现‘自由、公正、团结’的基本价值”，这是值得我们借鉴的，“有助于我们深化对社会主义的理解”。果真如此吗？应当指出，把社会主义说成是某“全人类的共同价值”，这是完全错误的。戈尔巴乔夫就鼓吹，社会主义本质上并不是一种社会制度，而是一种与社会制度没有必然联系的、在任何条件下都可以实现的组织社会生活的原则和过程。这些原则和过程是以若干基本价值和内容、并围绕他们展开的。不管是什么样的社会制度，只要不断实现这些伦理原则就是社会主义。从这一理解出发，他认为资本主义国家里，社会主义因素越来越多，正在和平地长入社会主义。这种说法显然是违反马克思主义、违反客观实际的。我们知道社会党，社会党曾经在欧洲几个国家里执政几年、十几年，宣称实施了这些原则，但丝毫没有改变这些国家的性质，连社会党自己也不得不承认，他们执政的国家仍然是资本主义国家。<br><br>民主社会主义宣传的“自由、公正、团结”等等价值观，听起来十分动听、富有魅力，然而作为一种价值观，“自由、公正、团结”是社会经济关系反映到人们头脑里面的观念，因而它是历史的、具体的。在阶级社会里，并不存在抽象的、全人类共同的“自由、公正、团结”。我们以“公正”为例。被资本家无偿占有剩余价值的工人认为剥削是不公正，而无偿占有工人创造的剩余价值的资本家却认为剥削是公正的。这里讲个故事。2002年第2期《书屋》杂志载有《我这样理解“剥削”不知当否？》一文（署名樊百华），该文说：“真正的市场经济是劳资双方在法制的基础上彼此妥协、合作，通过互相同意尊重了对方的权利，也就在消除了压迫的同时也消除了剥削。”“你受雇与否、受谁雇佣、如何解雇，都不是单单以资方的意志为转移的，双方都是依法律办事，都是按平等谈判的合约说话，劳工按合约工作、拿工资，资方以其成本和经营获得利润，双方都是按其投资获取相应的回报，因而都体现了当事人的合法权益，天经地义。如果有什么问题，双方仍然有权利提出交涉，直到出现新的互相同意；同时，投资风险与收益都属于出资方，这也理所当然，何来剥削之理？总不能说任何人还有不满意，就证明还有剥削吧，哪里有人人都心满意足的社会？”“如果说没有剥削的话，恰恰只有这样的资本主义，才是没有剥削的，否则，人们又能够到哪里找别人投资我当老板的‘大同主义’？”“我不相信任何‘初级小同主义、‘高级大同主义’，我相信权利平等的资本与劳动平权主义。只要我的人权、公民权得到保障，什么都好说，因为我知道社会政治再也不可能比这更进步了，没有比这更美好的社会了（在这个意义上历史不是无限发展的，而是可以终结的）！”请原谅我一下子引了这么多，奇文共欣赏，疑义相与析嘛，这实在是难得的奇文，特别是它居然堂而皇之地刊登在社会主义中国一家省级出版部门主管的杂志上！这不正好说明了在阶级社会里，并不存在抽象的“自由、公正、团结”之类吗？<br><br>提出“再认识”的人为了证明民主社会主义的正确，不惜扭曲国际形势，说什么在上世纪90年代中期以后，社会党纷纷上台执政，“欧洲政治地图呈现一片‘粉红’颜色。”记得有一位学者更是对比着说，共产党不断衰落，而社会党则兴旺发达，由此得出结论，必须改造我们的思维方式，向社会党学习，走民主社会主义道路，否则就会“在社会进程中被淘汰”。<br><br>应该说对整个国际形势做这样的判断是错误的。贬损共产党的历史、吹捧社会党的“成绩”的论断，不符合客观实际。苏东剧变的时候，苏联和东欧国家的共产党纷纷宣布改变党的性质，把党的名称改为社会党、社会民主党（戈尔巴乔夫也主张把苏联共产党改名为社会民主党，只是因为局势变化太快，没等改名，苏共就被解散了。后来他还担任过新成立的俄罗斯社会民主党主席），一时间社会党国际欢欣鼓舞，认为共产党、马克思主义不行了，社会党、民主社会主义的理论可以大行其道了。然而随着国际局势的变化，新保守主义占了上风，作为资本主义左翼的社会党并不吃香，不要说苏联、东欧国家的由共产党改名而来的社会党、社会民主党纷纷被逐出政坛，即使欧洲已经执政的社会党也大多数丢失了政权，沦为在野党。很明显对资本主义做点改良的理论和实践是经不起历史的检验的。改良主义只能充当资本主义的伙计，资产阶级需要时拉来帮帮忙，不需要时就一脚踢开。与此同时，中国等社会主义国家，坚持以马克思主义为指导，坚持人民民主专政和共产党的领导，通过改革开放，社会主义事业蒸蒸日上，显出马克思主义的巨大威力。正如邓小平所说的，“我坚信，世界上赞成马克思主义的人会多起来的，因为马克思主义是科学。”“一些国家出现严重曲折，社会主义好象被削弱了，但人民经受锻炼，从中吸取教训，将促使社会主义向着更加健康的方向发展。”④我们千万不能舍骐骥而求驽马，为捷径而窘步啊！<br><br>怎样对待社会民主党<br><br>在我们内部、尤其是在党内，应该对社会党、社会民主党的性质有清醒的认识。从根本性质来说，它们是资产阶级政党，因为他们不想推翻资本主义制度，只是要求在资本主义范围内做一点改良。这是与我们根本不同的。共产党与社会党是两种不同性质的政党，不要抹杀两者的原则区别，更不能借口互相学习，否定自己的基本理论和实践，吹捧社会党的改良主义理论和政策，主张共产党社会民主党化。这种情况，在社会主义国家里曾经出现过。戈尔巴乔夫就是这样干的。他说：“我国对外部世界是开放的，为的是研究和利用他人经验中一切有价值的东西。在社会民主党的理论研究和实践活动中，我们看了许多有意义的、富有启发的内容。我确信，由于社会主义国家中深刻的变化以及社会民主党内的进程，我们正变得彼此接近起来。”“今天，在社会党人和共产党人之间，已不再存在从前使他们分裂的鸿沟。”按照他的说法，共产党正在批判自己的错误，对十月革命、共产主义运动进行重新思考和改造，因而共产党与社会党之间“不仅在政治立场上而且在世界观立场上都接近了。”⑤戈尔巴乔夫通过向社会党学习，放弃了马克思列宁主义，迈过了“思维鸿沟”，提出了“新思维”，也就是民主社会主义的思维。正是在“新思维”的指导下，苏联发生了从共产党到社会党、从社会主义到资本主义的急剧变化。这一教训，难道不应该让热衷于向社会党学习的某些人引以为戒吗！<br><br>再从国际事务上看，1989年春夏之交，我国政府平息了在美国垄断资本集团大力煽动下出现的政治风波，西欧各执政的工党、社会党、社会民主党紧紧追随美国之后，对我国实行所谓制裁，给我国社会主义建设事业造成严重损失。1999年西欧各执政的工党、社会党、社会民主党与美国垄断资本集团紧密配合，公开入侵南斯拉夫，随后并予以肢解。为了推翻南斯拉夫政府，西欧几个国家的情报机构与美国中央情报局一起在南境内大肆活动。据美国报刊报道，在2000年南斯拉夫选举期间，英、德等西欧国家与美国垄断资本集团共向南政府反对派提供了六千万美元的活动经费。南政府被推翻后，英勇抵抗帝国主义侵略的原南斯拉夫总统米洛舍维奇被押到海牙国际法庭受审，最后在那里病故。2003年3月至今，被鼓吹民主社会主义的某些人奉若神明的“第三条道路”的代表人物英国工党领袖布莱尔，同美国政府沆瀣一气，制造借口，入侵并占领伊拉克，赤裸裸地暴露了其作为霸权主义帮凶的狰狞面目。凡此种种，难道还不足以说明他们的资产阶级政党的本质吗？当然，社会党、社会民主党，终究是资本主义社会里的左翼。在不触动雇佣劳动制度这一资本主义基本制度的前提下，他们在一定程度上维护劳动人民的利益，这是他们同保守党等右翼政党不同的地方。他们在执政期间为加强执政地位而采取的某些具体做法，也可以作为我们的借鉴。此外在外交政策上，它们在许多场合同超级大国也有矛盾的一面，因而与我们有共同之点，可以进行合作。所以，我们主张同社会党、社会民主党建立广泛的联系和多方面的合作。<br><br>在处理我们同各国社会党、社会民主党的关系时，应该分别不同性质的问题，应该把意识形态与党际关系区分开来。在意识形态上，我们必须坚持马克思主义的基本原理和社会主义的本质特征，对一切反马克思主义的观点、一切复辟资本主义的行为，都必须加以批判，与之划清界限。理论原则问题，必须分清是非，因为理论是非直接关系到我国国内的路线、方针、政策的制定，直接关系到我们走什么道路，直接关系到我们党和社会主义的前途。理论上���之毫厘，实际工作会失之千里。对于错误观点和主张，必须旗帜鲜明地进行斗争，坚决不能模棱两可，更不能听之任之。吸取苏东剧变的教训，我们对民主社会主义思潮必须坚决批判，防止这股思潮在我们党和社会上蔓延。尤其是在党的干部内部，在进行思想政治教育时更应如此。<br><br>在外交上，我们应该广交朋友，建立最广泛的统一战线。为了形成有利于我国的社会主义建设的国际环境，凡是愿意同我们交往的政党和国家，我们都应该建立联系。外交上我们决不能以意识形态划线，意识形态不一样，也可以发展友好关系。我们规定了国与国之间的五项基本原则，党与党之间的四项基本原则，只要符合这些原则，都应该开展交往。所以，尽管我们批判民主社会主义思潮，但并不影响我们同各国社会党、社会民主党建立友好的党际关系。三年前，社会党国际主席古特雷斯曾经访问我国，他表示：“虽然社会党国际与中方在意识形态方面存在一些分歧，但双方可以本着求同存异的精神，开展对话和交流，加强沟通与合作。”这也说明，彼此之间需要保持和发展友好关系，但意识形态方面的根本分歧则是客观存在，不必讳言。<br><br>以上意见，供你参考。<br><br>致 以<br><br>同志的敬礼！<br><br>你的老年朋友 辛程<br><br>注释：<br><br>①《列宁选集》第2卷第494页<br><br>②《马克思恩格斯选集》第1卷第295、297、301页。<br><br>③《马克思恩格斯选集》第1卷第303、304页<br><br>④《邓小平文选》第3卷第382、383页。<br><br>⑤戈尔巴乔夫：《未来世界与社会主义》，载《未来的社会主义》，第20页。</span><br>
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[3 楼]
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<b>Posted:</b>2007-02-19 14:02|</td>
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<br><span class="tpc_content">谢韬和辛子陵的“民主社会主义救国论”应该批判<br><br><br>奚兆永<br><br><br><br><br>《炎黄春秋》今年第2期以显著的地位刊发了谢韬先生的《民主社会主义模式与中国前途》（谢文在正式发表前曾以《只有民主社会主义才能救中国》为题在一些网页上刊登）一文，还配发了修正主义鼻祖伯恩斯坦的照片。由于谢文所论直接涉及到马克思主义发展史和国际共产主义运动史，直接涉及到党的指导思想——马克思列宁主义、毛泽东思想、邓小平理论，直接涉及到国家的前途和命运，还直接涉及到社会发展和人类未来的走向，这就不能不引起人们的严重关注。<br><br>谢文不同于一些直接用西方学说观点鼓吹走资本主义道路的文章，他打的是马克思主义的旗号，不过所鼓吹的仍然是走资本主义道路。文章肆意曲解马克思、恩格斯、列宁、斯大林、毛泽东的理论和实践，宣称“马克思、恩格斯晚年是民主社会主义者，是‘和平长入社会主义’的首倡者”，“民主社会主义是马克思主义的正统”，“保留资本主义生产方式，和平长入社会主义，才是《资本论》的最高成果”；宣称“通过工人阶级合法斗争取得政权”“是恩格斯对欧洲各国社会主义运动的最后遗言，是对《共产党宣言》‘旧策略‘的重要修改”，“不是伯恩斯坦’修正‘了马克思主义的暴力革命理论，提出了和平过渡理论，伯恩斯坦只是重复了恩格斯的话”；宣称“倒是列宁违背了马克思主义关于社会主义在先进资本主义国家共同胜利的思想”，“列宁主义是布朗基主义的继承和发展”，列宁将俄国社会民主工党改名为共产党是“标新立异”，成立第三国际是“分裂了国际工人运动”；宣称“斯大林等人才是最大的修正主义者，他们把恩格斯摈弃的‘1848年的斗争方法’当作旗帜挥舞，从‘左’边修正了马克思主义”；宣称从毛泽东和中国共产党认为“凭借手里有强大的国家机器，不怕民族资产阶级造反” 中，“可以看到布朗基主义——列宁主义对他们的影响”，中国“走上暴力社会主义的道路不是偶然的”，还宣称，“‘三大改造’是个错误”。谢文还对邓小平、江泽民、胡锦涛所推行的改革开放政策，大加曲解。文章“称赞” “邓小平和他的主要助手胡耀邦等同志顶住‘复辟资本主义’的指责，解散人民公社，实行包产到户，废止近乎单一的公有制，实行多种所有制共同发展，允许一部分人先富起来，把资本家请回来了，把先进生产力请回来了”，“这一系列新政策属于民主社会主义”；“称赞”胡锦涛主政后“将‘三个代表’重要思想和保护私有制的重要条文载入宪法”，“标志中国踏上了民主社会主义道路”。<br><br>与此同时，谢文竭力吹捧民主社会主义，大肆攻击马克思主义的科学社会主义，说什么“民主社会主义剔除了马克思主义中的空想成分，使马克思主义由空想变成了现实”；吹嘘“民主社会主义最大的成就，就是在老资本主义国家通过生产力的大发展和调节分配，基本上消灭了城乡差别、工农差别和体脑劳动的差别，铸就了民主社会主义的辉煌”，而把列宁通过十月革命建立的的苏联社会主义贬为“暴力社会主义”，说什么民主社会主义的这一成就“使苏联模式的暴力社会主义黯然失色”，“是促成苏联和东欧国家‘和平演变’的根本原因”。对于中国未来，谢文一再声称，“只有民主社会主义才能救中国”。如此等等，不一而足。<br><br>谢文是为辛子陵一本书稿写的序言，上述观点都出自该书稿。在谢文看来，这些观点作者都“以令人信服的历史考证”作了说明。谢文说，“无论在历史事实上，还是在意识形态上，这是一部在什么是社会主义、如何建设社会主义问题上彻底拨乱反正的书。作者以精湛的马克思主义学识和丰富的历史知识，为改革开放争得了历史正统地位，建立了改革派在马克思主义领域的话语权。”评价不可谓不高，但却明显地露出了马脚：改革开放在党中央的领导下已经进行了将近三十年，而所谓的改革派怎么到现在才“争得了历史正统地位”？怎么到现在才“建立了在马克思主义领域的话语权”？这不是很清楚地说明，你们这些所谓的改革派在长达近三十年的时间里都不是“正统”，“在马克思主义领域”里都没有“话语权”吗？这不正好说明，你们这些所谓的改革派，并不是社会主义的改革派，马克思主义的改革派，而只不过是资本主义的改革派，修正主义的改革派吗？至于现在，是不是通过辛的书稿和谢的文章就能够“争得”“历史的正统地位”和“在马克思主义领域的话语权”，那也不是由你们说了算的。在我看来，辛的书稿和谢的文章是根本经不起历史和事实的检验的，是极其错误和有害的；为了捍卫马克思主义的纯洁性和在今天的指导地位，为了维护改革开放的社会主义方向，对这些错误和有害的东西应该进行彻底的批判。<br><br>应该说，辛书和谢文的出笼既是坏事，也是好事。它向人们提供了一份绝好的反面教材，使人们大开眼界：原来世界上还有这样的东西！而对于马克思主义的理论界来说，它的出笼，实际上为我们提供了一个很好的靶子，可以促使我们更好地学习马克思主义，锻炼和提高我们识别真假马克思主义和批判各种错误思想的能力。<br><br>写此短文，只是一个引子，随后将针对谢、辛二位在这个问题上的具体观点写出批判文章若干篇，陆续在网上发表。希望谢辛二位能积极应战，更欢迎广大读者积极参加这一意义重大的论战。<br><br><br><br> <br>dpj1971 <br> <br><br><br>谢文的主子是谁?!!没有人支持敢大放狗屁,资产阶级,修正主义当权派正在试探党和人民的忍耐力!!他们迫不及待地,明目张胆地准备搞资本主义社会啦!!!!!<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>鲁钝 <br> <br><br><br>从去年起,精蝇们就在<改革内参>中连篇累牍地发表文章,大力鼓吹伯恩斯坦理论,称之为"真正的马克思主义",而列宁则是"违背和修正主义",其核心"理论"不出谢说.原以为只不过躲躲闪闪在自家刊物过瘾,现在居然粉墨登场,其背景不言而喻.革命者得作好最坏准备,丢掉幻想,准备战斗!<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>雷锋的战友 <br> <br><br><br><br>革命者得作好最坏准备,丢掉幻想,准备战斗!<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>cgyu <br> <br><br><br>请大家注意：90年代末，有个曹某曾亲自把“私有化纲领”交给总书记、国家主席，而且此人跑到美国公开鼓吹把中共改名社会党。党和国领导人对如此重大问题，一直至今都没有批判驳斥。随后，2000年就让“非阶级化”的所谓“三个代表”出笼。近前，在各种“完善市场经济体制”的一系列步骤下，又在严重的两极分化国内外背景和社会格局下，朝虚假的和平、和解、和谐社会盲进。在面临17大的关键时节，由几个老朽、老修出面大造舆论，值得警惕、必须清醒、严肃批判！<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>钟声 <br> <br><br><br><br>“文章“称赞” “邓小平和他的主要助手胡耀邦等同志顶住‘复辟资本主义’的指责，解散人民公社，实行包产到户，废止近乎单一的公有制，实行多种所有制共同发展，允许一部分人先富起来，把资本家请回来了，把先进生产力请回来了”，“这一系列新政策属于民主社会主义”；“称赞”胡锦涛主政后“将‘三个代表’重要思想和保护私有制的重要条文载入宪法”，“标志中国踏上了民主社会主义道路”。”<br><br> 此文的出笼绝非偶然，或许他说出了当政者想说而暂时还不能说的话来！想想一个时期以来当政者所鼓吹的毫无阶级性的和谐论，真正的共产党人应看出他们所卖的“民主社会主义”其实是一剂赤裸裸的修正主义蒙汗药！<br><br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>文言 <br><br><br><br>"其背景不言而喻.革命者得作好最坏准备,丢掉幻想,准备战斗!"<br><br> 应该以毛泽东的名义恢复共产党组织,大力宣传以工农联盟为基础的无产阶级专政和以公有制为基础的社会主义,把工人农民以及民工等新生的无产者团结起来,这才是我们唯一的出路,这是两条道路两条路线斗争的必然,资产阶级不死,就是劳动人民重回被奴役被压迫的资本主义社会!<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>113战士 <br> <br><br><br>中国的修正主义者资改派终于完成了其理论准备----经数十年的向新老修正主义请教，向帝国主义摇尾，终于从历史的臭垃圾堆里拣来了伯恩施坦的霉烂的‘理论’，居然把‘社会主义’加了个‘民主’来欺骗世人，好像是发现了‘新大陆’！真是无耻无赖到了史无前例的地步！看来，这一关系到党国民族灵魂命运的大问题，不允许争论是不可能的了！人们期待着真正的马列主义者和共产党人披挂上阵，投入这场由极右势力[可能是内外反动势力相勾结发起的对中共和马列毛的最致命的攻击]挑起的论战中去！-----这是最后的斗争！<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>跃武 <br> <br><br><br>资产阶级,修正主义当权派正在试探党和人民的忍耐力!!他们迫不及待、 明目张胆 、名正言顺地搞资本主义 ，不用在搞什么中国特色了。<br><br><br><br> <br>清流 <br> <br><br><br>最讨厌的就是自诩为精英的人，他们从来就是大放厥词。1840年以来，精英不少，提出了不少的理论，但除了毛泽东，有谁能挽救中国？精英们对国家民族，从来是成事不足败事有余。看着他们丢弃振兴中华民族的指导思想——毛泽东思想，给中华民族制造了无数的灾难，我为之悲愤。<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>老汉 <br><br><br><br>这样攻击马克思列宁主义、毛泽东思想，美化资本主义、帝国主义的文章可以公开出版，而捍卫马克思列宁主义、毛泽东思想的文章不能公开发表，文章从反面说明了我国正在进行的改革是一种什么样的改革！把汉奸说成忠良，把叛徒说成顾全大局，把修正主义说成是正统的马克思主义，把帝国主义说成是社会主义的样板，这样的“社会主义”正是少数人需要的“社会主义”，而广大人们需要的社会主义是不会在资本主义社会中和平长出来的社会主义，资本家会自动放弃剥削那只是天方夜谭。美国是靠剥削全世界的发展中国家的劳动人民来缓和它的国内的阶级矛盾。美国的道路是一条罪恶的道路，其他国家不应该走，而且也是绝对走不成的道路。<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>甄岩 <br> <br><br>“文章“称赞” “邓小平和他的主要助手胡耀邦等同志顶住‘复辟资本主义’的指责，解散人民公社，实行包产到户，废止近乎单一的公有制，实行多种所有制共同发展，允许一部分人先富起来，把资本家请回来了，把先进生产力请回来了”，“这一系列新政策属于民主社会主义”；“称赞”胡锦涛主政后“将‘三个代表’重要思想和保护私有制的重要条文载入宪法”，“标志中国踏上了民主社会主义道路”。”<br><br> 此文的出笼绝非偶然，或许他说出了当政者想说而暂时还不能说的话来！想想一个时期���来当政者所鼓吹的毫无阶级性的和谐论，真正的共产党人应看出他们所卖的“民主社会主义”其实是一剂赤裸裸的修正主义蒙汗药！<br><br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>鲁钝 <br> <br><br>西江月'精蝇图[二首]<br><br>一<br><br>牲得一张猫脸,<br><br>长成五短身材;<br><br>坑蒙拐骗黑登台,<br><br>多少忠良被害.<br><br><br><br>哪怕人穷下去,<br><br>唯图我富起来; <br><br>衙门竟敢公司开,<br><br>绝后空前腐败!<br><br><br><br><br>二<br><br>三座大山复压,<br><br>百年魔怪重来;<br><br>贪官富豪黑修才,<br><br>铁板结成一块.<br><br><br><br>'领导'翻为'弱势',<br><br>'和平'招得国灾;<br><br>掏光养毁做乌龟,<br><br>撅起臀来苦挨!<br><br><br><br><br>此帖已被作者于 2007-2-24 0:05:55 加以修改 <br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>捍红新兵 <br> <br><br>这些所谓"改革派"们,说穿了就是专门在历史垃圾堆里翻检思想垃圾的"屎壳郎",但无论其怎样将他们翻出来的"宝贝"们进行改头换面的包装,也无法掩盖那上面散发出来的腐朽的霉臭味.<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>揽月捉鳖 <br> <br><br><br><br>同志们！<br><br> 修正主义者们的真面目已经暴露无遗了!他们长期高举着的那面骗人的旗子，现在他们已经赤裸裸地扔掉了！而且他们自己也认为是到了公开扔掉的时候了！<br><br> 一切马克思主义者和真正的共产党人,应该参加战斗了！要明确，这绝不是什么学术之争，这是关系着我国前途和命运之争！<br><br> 这场斗争的实质是关系中国共产党到底是什么性质的政党；我国政权到底是什么性质的政权之争。<br><br> 在这场斗争中，我们的思想武器就是马列主义、毛泽东思想；我们的法律武器就是《中华人民共和国宪法》。中国共产党党员的武器还有党章。<br><br> 可是，我国宪法也面临着严重挑衅：2002、2003年的所谓民间修宪的时候，他们改变我们的国体和政体的目的已经明确暴露，他们有人公开叫喊要取消人民民主专政，取消工农联盟，而这样主张的人，非但没有得到任何的警告和惩罚，而且还加官进爵！而“私有制神圣不可侵犯”写进宪法的鼓噪虽然没有被采纳，但是在《物权法（草案）》中，有人就是执意不把宪法12条规定的、规范我国财产关系的核心条款——“社会主义的公共财产神圣不可侵犯”写进去！而且那位全国人大的官员盛华仁竟然公然违背社会主义民主的基本常识和规则，置宪法和绝大多数公民的意愿于不顾，说什么要“确保”物权法草案的通过！这意味着什么？？？？？<br><br>他盛华仁为什么不说“确保”物权法草案符合宪法的规定呢？？？？？<br><br> 目前全国人大会议将要召开，我们必须公开阐明和宣传马克思主义关于社会主义财产关系的正确立场和态度，让党和国家领导人，让全国人大代表能够听到我们的呼声和建议！<br><br> 还是恩格斯那句话：无产阶级除了斗争之外就什么也不是！<br><br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>打闹天宫 <br><br><br><br>共产党人应该组织起来团结起来,同新老修正主义做坚决的斗争.<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>华仔老幺 <br><br><br><br><br>鲁钝的西江月真好！<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>继红 <br> <br><br><br>怎么看不到三千人签名反对国企私有化上书全国人大的信了 ????为什麽??<br><br> 应该以毛泽东的名义恢复共产党组织,......若是这样,我将重新申请入党.<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>匹夫有责 <br><br><br><br>物以类聚，人以群分。<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>wufeng1963 <br> <br><br><br>反对唔全法<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>hhxxxx <br> <br><br><br>暴力社会主义?---------如果这种观点成立,那共产党的历史直到现在岂不都是有罪的?你还夸邓,胡等,岂不是矛盾?如果真如你所说的那样,那么文革就没有一点错误了!而是绝对的真理!<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>li19691204 <br> <br><br><br><br>狠狠的批判！<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>钟庸 <br> <br><br><br>我们该怎么办？有枪吗？我愿做一个先行者。<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>yoyo湘人 <br> <br><br><br>深为当今社会期趋同而担忧,也深为上楼的言论而喝彩,但是我们也要应看到,这一切是不可更改的现实现象了!中国腐败现象简直是遍地开花了!<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>tgz111 <br> <br><br><br>看来��们是一招不行，又出一招；本来想一步到位---在我国彻底建立起资本主义的生产关系和政治制度，结果招致强烈的批评，于是又在考茨基的修正主义上打起了如意算盘。<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>李必胜 <br> <br><br><br>公开宣布复辟资本主义太露骨，人民不答应，搞民主社会主义是走指派的新招，是继续蒙骗人民的更毒的一招，必须加以高度警惕，坚决批判，坚决斗争！革命者要尽快的团结在马列主义毛泽东思想的旗帜下，组织起来，宣传人民，组织人民，一起奋斗！丢掉幻想准备斗争！<br><br><br> <br> <br>好友 邮件 短信 回复 <br> <br>漠北胡杨 <br> <br><br><br><br>经济上的腐败只是现象，政治思想上的腐败才是本质。舍本求末反腐败只能越反越腐败。</span><br>
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</td></tr>
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<td colspan="6">
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<img>
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<br>早改名早好，不要挂羊头卖狗肉。
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</td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="5">
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[4 楼]
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<b>Posted:</b>2007-02-26 12:05|</td>
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<td>
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<a><img alt="顶端"></a>
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</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<table>
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<br><table>
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<tbody><tr><td></td>
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<td>
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快速跳至
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>> 文革论坛
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|- 文革文献
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| 361 |
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|- 文革研究
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|- 文革口述
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|- 百花齐放
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|- 万象视野
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|- 时代民谣
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|- 文革美术
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|- 革命文艺
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>> 论坛事务
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|- 意见反馈
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|- 版主交流
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</td></tr>
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<tr><td><br><img> <b><a>中国文革研究论坛</a> -> <a>百花齐放</a></b></td>
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<td><br><a><img></a>
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<a><img></a> <a>
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</td></tr></tbody></table><br>
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<table>
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<table>
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<tbody><tr><td class="head">
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<b>快速发帖</b></td>
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<td class="head">
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<a href="#top"><b>顶端</b></a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr>
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<tr><td>
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<b>内容</b>：<br>
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HTML 代码不可用<br><br>
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| 392 |
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使用签名<br>
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| 393 |
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Wind Code自动转换
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<br><br>
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[<a>查看帖子长度</a>]
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</td>
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<td>
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标题:
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<br>
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表情:
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<br><br>
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按 Ctrl+Enter 直接提交
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</td></tr></tbody></table>
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| 430 |
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<br>
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| 431 |
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| 432 |
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<br>
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<small>Powered by <a><b>PHPWind</b> <b>v4.3.2</b></a> Code © 2003-05 <a><b>PHPWind</b></a> <br>
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This is html template view this page faster<br><br>You can <a>contact us</a></small>
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function Addtoie(value,title){
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window.external.AddFavorite(value,title);
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function Fjumpr(value,path)
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{
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if(value!= '') {
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window.location=(path+'/thread.php?fid='+value);
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}
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function quickpost(event)
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if((event.ctrlKey && event.keyCode == 13)||(event.altKey && event.keyCode == 83))
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this.document.FORM.submit();
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function checkCnt() {
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alert('Submission Processing. Please Wait');
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function checklength(theform,postmaxchars) {
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}else {
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message = '';
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alert('您的信息已经有 '+theform.atc_content.value.length+' 字节'+message);
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}
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function addsmile(NewCode) {
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document.FORM.atc_content.value += ' '+NewCode+' ';
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}
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function CopyCode(obj){
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var js = document.body.createTextRange();
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js.moveToElementText(obj);
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js.select();
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js.execCommand("Copy");
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}
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objects/a0/a0c37906b5cd8ab0bed3808db6aec753b3a8cd036977052d7800e718f3a4df55/sanitized-html-v5-e607d2163c2189e2/document.html
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| 1 |
+
<meta charset="utf-8"> <meta>
|
| 2 |
+
<title>【转基因作物大面积种植，我们还有机会生存，吗？】_2012吧_百度贴吧 </title>
|
| 3 |
+
<link rel="shortcut icon">
|
| 4 |
+
|
| 5 |
+
|
| 6 |
+
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| 7 |
+
|
| 8 |
+
|
| 9 |
+
|
| 10 |
+
|
| 11 |
+
<style>.post .author{overflow:visible;}</style>
|
| 12 |
+
|
| 13 |
+
var PageData={
|
| 14 |
+
curr_href:escape(window.location.href),//
|
| 15 |
+
is_login:parseInt("0"),
|
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<p>【转基因作物大面积种植，我们还有机会生存，吗？】 </p>
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<td><div id="hdTopTag"><a>新闻</a> <a>网页</a> <strong>贴吧</strong> <a>知道</a> <a>MP3</a> <a>图片</a> <a>视频</a> <a>百科</a></div>
|
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<table><tbody><tr><td> </td>
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<td> <a>吧内搜索</a> | <a>帮助</a></td></tr></tbody></table>
|
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进入贴吧 进入<span class="itb_i_small">i</span>贴吧 贴子搜索</td></tr></tbody></table>
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<a>百度贴吧</a> > <a>2012吧</a> > 浏览贴子
|
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</div>
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<div id="admin_list">
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吧主：<a>传述者</a><a>__零也__</a>
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</div>
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</div>
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<div id="thread_nav_left">
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<ul>
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<li><a href="#sub">快速回复</a></li>
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<li> <a href="#" title="切换到经典版">切换到经典版</a></li>
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</ul>
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<ul>
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<li><a>贴吧投诉</a></li>
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</ul>
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</div>
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<div id="content" class="post_link">
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<div id="thread_header">
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<p class="forward_info">转贴次数：<span id="forward_num">0</span></p>
|
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+
<ul>
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<li>共有<span class="post_num">9</span>篇贴子</li>
|
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</ul>
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</div>
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<div id="thread_title">
|
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<h1>【转基因作物大面积种植，我们还有机会生存，吗？】</h1>
|
| 292 |
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<a class="forward" title="转贴并收藏"></a>
|
| 293 |
+
</div>
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<div id="thread_title_ext"></div>
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<a name="#1"></a>
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<table>
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<tbody><tr>
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<td class="author" id="autonym">
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<a name="7458602907"></a>
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<li class="icon post_icon"><a><img class="icon"></a></li>
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<li class="name">
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<a>takeitoutwxd</a>
|
| 313 |
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</li>
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<li>
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<a name="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304_fans_num" id="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304_fans_num">12</a>位粉丝
|
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</li>
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<li id="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304" class="follow_info">
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<a href="#" class="follow"></a>
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<td class="content">
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<p class="floor">1楼</p>
|
| 332 |
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| 333 |
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审核吧<br>
|
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<li>2010-2-14 16:17</li>
|
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<li><a href="#sub">回复</a></li>
|
| 351 |
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</div>
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<div class="post_split"><div class="split_line"></div></div>
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<a name="#2"></a>
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<div class="post">
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<table>
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<tbody><tr>
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<td class="author" id="autonym">
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<a name="7458622172"></a>
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<ul>
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<li class="icon post_icon"><a><img class="icon"></a></li>
|
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<li class="name">
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<a>takeitoutwxd</a>
|
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</li>
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<li>
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<a name="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304_fans_num" id="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304_fans_num">12</a>位粉丝
|
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</li>
|
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<li id="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304" class="follow_info">
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<a href="#" class="follow"></a>
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<td class="content">
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<p class="floor">2楼</p>
|
| 397 |
+
|
| 398 |
+
|
| 399 |
+
十万火急 湖北广西东北耕地 已因转基因作物全部报废 请中河蟹央立即下令停止转基因水稻全国推广！ 原帖<br>
|
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<div class="sign_split"></div>
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<li>2010-2-14 16:20</li>
|
| 415 |
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<li><a href="#sub">回复</a></li>
|
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+
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+
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原文地址:<a>http://www.woaihexie.com/hexie/98435.html</a><br><br>十万火急 湖北广西东北耕地 已因转基因作物全部报废 请中央立即下令停止转基因水稻全国推丶广！<br><br><br>十万火急，湖北广西东北耕地，已因转基因作物全部报废，请中央立即下令停止转基因水稻全国推丶广，请中央<br><br>速派调查组到湖北广西东北，调查原转基因作物耕地，种植非转基因作物情况。<br><br>转基因，百草亡，转基因作物耕地无昆虫无杂草，种植过转基因作物的耕地，不长杂草，停种后再种其它作物<br><br>，就种不成了，长出来也是毒草，也是有毒作物，无法食用。（更详细说明见 附文一 附文二）<br><br>湖北广西东北所有转基因作物耕地，已经报废了，已经种不了其它作物了，只能种转基因作物了，只能种有毒<br><br>作物了。停种后再种其它作物，就种不成了，长出来也是毒草，也是有毒作物，无法食用。<br><br>如全国推丶广转基因水稻，则全国耕地今后就只能种转基因作物了，就绝对种不了非转基因作物了，停种后再种<br><br>其它作物，就种不成了，长出来也是毒草，也是有毒作物，无法食用。全国耕地全部变成不毛之地了，全国人<br><br>民就只有三个选择了，<br>1。只能向美国买高价转基因种子， 种断种粮， 吃绝命食；<br>2。进口天价粮食；<br>3。饿死。<br><br>美国有大量转基因耕地，因为那是种生物燃料开车，种生物武器出口杀敌。转基因食品有害性所有地球人都知<br><br>道，外行的认识转基因食品本质的简便方法见下：<br><br>附文一：每位国人都能轻松认清转基因食品本质, 以下是几个省时省力省心省钱的认识方法. <br><br>外行对付内行最好的方法就是举反例, 以下是几位网友的调查方法. 几分钟打几个电话问朋友, 或去医院溜达<br><br>溜达, 或在家做个小试验, 眼见为实, 转基因食品的战略价值立刻就显现.<br><br>方法一. <br>这是一位医学工作的回帖，提供给大家看看很有现实意义。<br> 再告诉你一个不幸的消息，过去医院妇产科，排队最长的是人流手术，现在排队最长的是不育不孕症。如果<br><br>你经常与草甘膦有接触的话，请你去检查一下你的精丶子，看看如何？或者请你的经常接触草甘膦的同学去检查<br><br>一下精丶子。（草甘膦相关知识见附文二） <br><br>方法二.<br>今天在医院做了个有意思的调查：在医院死人比例如下 30岁以下约占18%，50岁上下占69.7%，余下不到13%的<br><br>是70岁以上的老人；30岁以下的多意外突发之类，50岁上下多怪病杂病难治之症 而且最要命的是这个层段的往<br><br>往是进院次数最少的 经常是就一二次 一病就难以扛下！相反70岁以上的倒多是老顽固，抗性极强 我就感觉有<br><br>些纳闷了 ... 原因分析：一是与‘进口’有关；二是生活.各方压力太大，这个层常常是上有老下有小... 而<br><br>老的70岁以上多是从大风大雨中过来的 又中间层照顾的比较好，是在绿色环保时代 走完少年、青壮年 ，当他<br><br>们进入老年也就是近十年他们很少食用时尚产品 。<br><br>方法三.<br>洛克菲勒基金会的张启发院士认为成丶人每天吃500克转基因稻米，连吃657年也不会出现问题，人食用转基因稻<br><br>米是安全的，鉴于<br> 中国的砖家叫兽没有花657年去证明“连吃657年也不会出现问题”，本小农（因为农大毕业即失业在家务<br><br>农）决定自己证实，转基因稻米咱没地买，但转基因大豆楼下豆腐坊就有（现在市面上也没多少非转基因的大<br><br>豆了），他的豆渣是免丶费的，我准备了果蝇，金鱼，小鸡，仓鼠，宠物市场上有卖的。<br> 1.。。。果蝇拿苍蝇代替，数目太多没数，豆渣发酵后喂食，17天后全部死亡，生产的蛆未孵化，可能是<br><br>
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<br>温度不行，但正常寿命应该是30天<br> 2.。。。金鱼为50燕尾 金鲫鱼 ，豆渣发酵后喂食，27尾已经死亡，原因未知，可能是偏食给饿死的，其<br><br>余23尾有17尾总是偏着头游泳，其中有一条亲鱼买的时候就怀孕了，买后一个月产子，缸低铺了一层，但是2个<br><br>月了都臭了没孵出来。温度在18度没问题，分析是没有受精。<br> 3.。。。小鸡50只，2天后死了6只，试验样本44只，3个月后突然出现7只边叫边转圈，大群正常，无伤亡<br><br>，但羽毛松散不光洁，鉴于鸡的寿命可长达10年，现正在继续观察。<br> 4.。。。因为没地买白鼠买的仓鼠，试验样本50只，3个月后有10只掉毛有皮肤红，皮肤干燥产生类似头皮<br><br>屑的东西，不停的搔痒，不停的乱抓而造成流血。判断是皮肤病或是过敏，为防感染分离出去喂自家产的白薯<br><br>做放弃，15只疑似感染分离直接喂大豆加强营养，25只放原地还喂豆渣，<br> 注意恐怖的一幕出现了，15只疑似感染分离直接喂大豆的仓鼠四个月另六天后在食物充足的情况下突然互<br><br>相撕咬，要知道他们是一个大家子，本身是血亲啊！也不存在发丶情啊！现已经全部死亡，解剖后发现小脑萎缩<br><br>，就像买的核桃被烤干了成片的样子，身体脏器全部肿大，形成突起的乳丶头状、息肉状、菜花状的肿物，浸润<br><br>性包块状，溃疡状伴浸润性生长，切面呈灰白或灰红色，有恶臭，恶心的你吃不下去，请看图16及录像。<br> 因为太恶心了，索性把25只放原地还喂豆渣也给处理了，他们也表现了类似的症状但是不明显，还没有互<br><br>相撕咬，不死不休，但<br> 身体脏器也全部肿大了，请看图17及录像-没有全部解剖实在是太恶心了，让你心里实在受不了了！现在倒<br><br>是分离出去喂自家产的白薯做放弃的还活蹦乱跳的。<br> 分析；可能因为豆渣中的蛋白质含量下降，（也包括类似高效杀虫Bt蛋白和其他未知蛋白的含量下降），<br><br>让吃豆渣的仓鼠多活了几天，而吃高蛋白的仓鼠又神经病又癌症又早衰，并且全部都免疫力下降。本人所做实<br><br>验不是很精确，但是全部属实，有录像为证，想要详细报告的请联丶系dfsf21@126.com。<br><br>大家赶紧调查吧, 否则连调查的机会都没了.<br><br><br>附文二：与草甘膦相关的知识：<br><br>“1995年，孟山都开始生产抗农达大豆。……农达就是美国政丶府用来清除哥伦比亚毒品作物的那种除草剂。正<br><br>因为抗农达大豆能够免受伤害，因此无论是大豆还是所有的杂草都可以喷洒‘农达’，这样既杀死了杂草又能<br><br>将大豆保留下来。……种植各类蔬菜供自己消费的农民们发现，他们的作物因喷洒除草剂而被杀死，因为农达<br><br>把除了经过基因改造能够‘抗 草 甘 膦 ’的孟山都大豆之外的所有植物都杀死了。<br>抗农达大豆作物的产量要比传统大豆作物平均低5%～15%。而且，需要使用的除草剂要多得多，农民们发现，新<br><br>长出来的有毒杂草需要使用比以前多两倍的喷洒量才能清除。美国农业部1997年以来的统计数字显示，抗农达<br><br>大豆种植面积的扩大，导致 草 甘 膦 的使用量增加了72%。”<br>昨天我才弄明白这个“农达”原来就是Roundup的音译——说“农达”没多少人知道是什么玩艺，但一说<br><br>Roundup美国人几乎都知道这是美国最厉害的除草剂，价格最贵。我有一美国朋友专门告���过我，市场上卖的除<br><br>草剂有各种各样：有专给草坪除杂草的，有专给菜园除杂草的，有专给花卉除杂草的，不能弄错，否则可能适<br><br>得其反，想除的没除掉，想保护的反倒给杀死了。 <br>但最不能用错的就是Roundup，那可是除草剂之王，所到之处一切植物全部杀光——英文round up 的意思是“<br><br>
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<br>兜捕”、“围而歼之”，而Roundup的意思简直可以说就是“格杀勿论”、“一扫而光”、“斩草除根”、“斩<br><br>尽杀绝”、“寸草不留”。（我亲眼见识过，确实所向披靡，横扫一切。） <br>这玩艺的祖宗就是美军在越南战争中大量使用的落叶剂——橙剂（Agent Orange），而孟山都公司当年就是美<br><br>军使用的落叶剂的主要生产商。把当年的落叶剂技术进一步发展，就成了今天的Roundup——孟山都公司的“军<br><br>转民”。 虽然说把生化武器的“落叶剂”变为和平用途的“除草剂”是“放下屠刀、立地成佛”的善举，不过<br><br>这“善”是从邪丶恶中来，骨子里可不善，始终透着一股邪气、杀气，稍不留神就能伤人——商店里的除草剂都<br><br>是密封的，但那股子怪味怎么密封都封不住，隔老远就能呛得人头昏目花眼泪鼻涕跑冒滴漏浑身不自在。难怪<br><br>有人告诉我生产这玩艺的工厂的工人中净是男不男女不女生不出娃娃的——连孟山都公司自己都在Roundup的使<br><br>用说明里明明白白告诫：这玩艺对人体有害，对环境有害，不能沾到眼睛，不能沾到衣服，不能沾到水源。<br><br>附文三： 决战时刻到了，决战阶段已提前来临<br><br>没时间了，春耕在即，十几天几十天内，中丶华民丶族就有可能败局已定了，十几天几十天内，中丶华民丶族灭亡就有<br><br>可能已成定局了，若敌对势力，发现全国人民已觉醒，加快行动把转基因水稻五年全国推丶广改为一年推丶广，以<br><br>转基因水稻推丶广立法为理由，逼迫诱骗全国农民及基层政丶府组织，十几天几十天内，把转基因种子埋入地，立<br><br>刻撒上转基因专用杀虫剂，十几天几十天内，中丶华民丶族灭亡就已成定局了，<br><br>网民们版主们，中丶华民丶族的命运就掌握在你们手里，但只省十几天几十天，决战阶段已提前来临了，为了今后<br><br>还有春节，这个春节不过了，希望全国网民立刻行动起来，<br><br>奔赴农村，向农民宣传，不种转基因种子，不洒转基因专用农药，<br>向基层政丶府宣传，不种转基因种子，不洒转基因专用农药，<br>在相关部门网民应严格监视转基因种子及其专用杀虫剂向基层流动的每一个环节。从交通运输， 到仓库储存。<br>接触过转基因种子及其专用杀从剂专业点的网民马上提供一些他们的特征。以利于全民监督。<br><br>不要指望敌人会手软，不要指望敌人会行动慢，一切都有可能！敌人会用你想得到的和想不到的一切手段，致<br><br>你于死地，所以，全体网民要用尽一切体力和脑力和资源，防止决战时刻决战阶段受骗受糊弄，记住中丶华民丶族<br><br>利益高于一切，为了中丶华民丶族根本利益可以牺牲一切法律规章制度和道德，一切法律规章制度和道德是为中丶华<br><br>民丶族根本利益服务的。<br><br>中国地方大, 有地躲, 所以亡国; 日丶本地方小, 没地躲, 所以一亿玉碎, 玉碎而后生.<br> 可问题是转基因之战, 你在中国无处可逃, 转基因, 百草亡, 土地全覆没了, 没地方种了, 到时侯你再种<br><br>其它非转基因的作物, 全部作物都会死. <br><br>古书中讲了许多国难当头集体冷血的例子, 国难当头集体冷血, 都以为不会亡, 都想保全自己, 都往后缩, 都<br><br>指望别人, 结果全死, 结果全被弱敌屠丶杀.<br><br>大家都以为不会亡时, 就是快亡了; 大家都感到危险了危机重重了马上就完蛋了, 没有退路了, 国家就有希望<br><br>了, 大家就都能活了.<br> 岳飞800破十万;<br> 杨素300破五万;<br> 刘裕以一破千;<br><br>古人常说: 死中求生, 败中求胜. <br> 今天, 最聪明的民丶族, 不要有最愚蠢的想法, 最冷血的想法, 最找死的想法! 记住旁观是死，冷血是死，<br><br>退缩是死！<br>死中求生, 败中求胜. 华夏先烈们打下基业, 千万不要在十几天内毁在咱们自己手里。<br><br>一切农业资源都掌握在敌对势力手里，如果敌人更精一点的话，恐怕转基因种子和专用农药此时已到了全国每<br><br>个县每个乡的仓库，马上就会向农民免丶费发放，这次转基因立法，就是为今春全国行动而策划。<br><br>转基因水稻全国推丶广, 国难当头, 民丶族危在旦夕, 为了中丶华民丶族的根本利益，请版主速放此贴，所有中国人都<br><br>已经没退路啦！为了中丶华民丶族的根本利益，请全国论坛及版主及马甲团结起来！行动起来<br><a>http://bbs1.people.com.cn/postDetail.do?boardId=1&treeView=1&view=2&id=97737779</a> 原帖<br> <br>
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<br>十万火急 湖北广西东北耕地 已因转基因作物全部报废 请中央立即下令停止转基因水稻全国推广！<br><br><br>十万火急，湖北广西东北耕地，已因转基因作物全部报废，请中央立即下令停止转基因水稻全国推广，请中央<br><br>速派调查组到湖北广西东北，调查原转基因作物耕地，种植非转基因作物情况。<br><br>转基因，百草亡，转基因作物耕地无昆虫无杂草，种植过转基因作物的耕地，不长杂草，停种后再种其它作物<br><br>，就种不成了，长出来也是毒草，也是有毒作物，无法食用。（更详细说明见 附文一 附文二）<br><br>湖北广西东北所有转基因作物耕地，已经报废了，已经种不了其它作物了，只能种转基因作物了，只能种有毒<br><br>作物了。停种后再种其它作物，就种不成了，长出来也是毒草，也是有毒作物，无法食用。<br><br>如全国推广转基因水稻，则全国耕地今后就只能种转基因作物了，就绝对种不了非转基因作物了，停种后再种<br><br>其它作物，就种不成了，长出来也是毒草，也是有毒作物，无法食用。全国耕地全部变成不毛之地了，全国人<br><br>民就只有三个选择了，<br>1。只能向美国买高价转基因种子， 种断种粮， 吃绝命食；<br>2。进口天价粮食；<br>3。饿死。<br><br>美国有大量转基因耕地，因为那是种生物燃料开车，种生物武器出口杀敌。转基因食品有害性所有地球人都知<br><br>道，外行的认识转基因食品本质的简便方法见下：<br><br>附文一：每位国人都能轻松认清转基因食品本质, 以下是几个省时省力省心省钱的认识方法. <br><br>外行对付内行最好的方法就是举反例, 以下是几位网友的调查方法. 几分钟打几个电话问朋友, 或去医院溜达<br><br>溜达, 或在家做个小试验, 眼见为实, 转基因食品的战略价值立刻就显现.<br><br>方法一. <br>这是一位医学工作的回帖，提供给大家看看很有现实意义。<br> 再告诉你一个不幸的消息，过去医院妇产科，排队最长的是人流手术，现在排队最长的是不育不孕症。如果<br><br>你经常与草甘膦有接触的话，请你去检查一下你的精子，看看如何？或者请你的经常接触草甘膦的同学去检查<br><br>一下精子。（草甘膦相关知识见附文二） <br><br>方法二.<br>今天在医院做了个有意思的调查：在医院死人比例如下 30岁以下约占18%，50岁上下占69.7%，余下不到13%的<br><br>是70岁以上的老人；30岁以下的多意外��发之类，50岁上下多怪病杂病难治之症 而且最要命的是这个层段的往<br><br>往是进院次数最少的 经常是就一二次 一病就难以扛下！相反70岁以上的倒多是老顽固，抗性极强 我就感觉有<br><br>些纳闷了 ... 原因分析：一是与‘进口’有关；二是生活.各方压力太大，这个层常常是上有老下有小... 而<br><br>老的70岁以上多是从大风大雨中过来的 又中间层照顾的比较好，是在绿色环保时代 走完少年、青壮年 ，当他<br><br>们进入老年也就是近十年他们很少食用时尚产品 。<br><br>方法三.<br>洛克菲勒基金会的张启发院士认为成人每天吃500克转基因稻米，连吃657年也不会出现问题，人食用转基因稻<br><br>米是安全的，鉴于<br> 中国的砖家叫兽没有花657年去证明“连吃657年也不会出现问题”，本小农（因为农大毕业即失业在家务<br><br>农）决定自己证实，转基因稻米咱没地买，但转基因大豆楼下豆腐坊就有（现在市面上也没多少非转基因的大<br><br>豆了），他的豆渣是免费的，我准备了果蝇，金鱼，小鸡，仓鼠，宠物市场上有卖的。<br> 1.。。。果蝇拿苍蝇代替，数目太多没数，豆渣发酵后喂食，17天后全部死亡，生产的蛆未孵化，可能是<br><br>温度不行，但正常寿命应该是30天<br> 2.。。。金鱼为50燕尾 金鲫鱼 ，豆渣发酵后喂食，27尾已经死亡，原因未知，可能是偏食给饿死的，其<br><br>
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<br>余23尾有17尾总是偏着头游泳，其中有一条亲鱼买的时候就怀孕了，买后一个月产子，缸低铺了一层，但是2个<br><br>月了都臭了没孵出来。温度在18度没问题，分析是没有受精。<br> 3.。。。小鸡50只，2天后死了6只，试验样本44只，3个月后突然出现7只边叫边转圈，大群正常，无伤亡<br><br>，但羽毛松散不光洁，鉴于鸡的寿命可长达10年，现正在继续观察。<br> 4.。。。因为没地买白鼠买的仓鼠，试验样本50只，3个月后有10只掉毛有皮肤红，皮肤干燥产生类似头皮<br><br>屑的东西，不停的搔痒，不停的乱抓而造成流血。判断是皮肤病或是过敏，为防感染分离出去喂自家产的白薯<br><br>做放弃，15只疑似感染分离直接喂大豆加强营养，25只放原地还喂豆渣，<br> 注意恐怖的一幕出现了，15只疑似感染分离直接喂大豆的仓鼠四个月另六天后在食物充足的情况下突然互<br><br>相撕咬，要知道他们是一个大家子，本身是血亲啊！也不存在发情啊！现已经全部死亡，解剖后发现小脑萎缩<br><br>，就像买的核桃被烤干了成片的样子，身体脏器全部肿大，形成突起的乳头状、息肉状、菜花状的肿物，浸润<br><br>性包块状，溃疡状伴浸润性生长，切面呈灰白或灰红色，有恶臭，恶心的你吃不下去，请看图16及录像。<br> 因为太恶心了，索性把25只放原地还喂豆渣也给处理了，他们也表现了类似的症状但是不明显，还没有互<br><br>相撕咬，不死不休，但<br> 身体脏器也全部肿大了，请看图17及录像-没有全部解剖实在是太恶心了，让你心里实在受不了了！现在倒<br><br>是分离出去喂自家产的白薯做放弃的还活蹦乱跳的。<br> 分析；可能因为豆渣中的蛋白质含量下降，（也包括类似高效杀虫Bt蛋白和其他未知蛋白的含量下降），<br><br>让吃豆渣的仓鼠多活了几天，而吃高蛋白的仓鼠又神经病又癌症又早衰，并且全部都免疫力下降。本人所做实<br><br>验不是很精确，但是全部属实，有录像为证，想要详细报告的请联系dfsf21@126.com。<br><br>大家赶紧调查吧, 否则连调查的机会都没了.<br><br><br>附文二：与草甘膦相关的知识：<br><br>“1995年，孟山都开始生产抗农达大豆。……农达就是美国政府用来清除哥伦比亚毒品作物的那种除草剂。正<br><br>因为抗农达大豆能够免受伤害，因此无论是大豆还是所有的杂草都可以喷洒‘农达’，这样既杀死了杂草又能<br><br>将大豆保留下来。……种植各类蔬菜供自己消费的农民们发现，他们的作物因喷洒除草剂而被杀死，因为农达<br><br>把除了经过基因改造能够‘抗 草 甘 膦 ’的孟山都大豆之外的所有植物都杀死了。<br>抗农达大豆作物的产量要比传统大豆作物平均低5%～15%。而且，需要使用的除草剂要多得多，农民们发现，新<br><br>长出来的有毒杂草需要使用比以前多两倍的喷洒量才能清除。美国农业部1997年以来的统计数字显示，抗农达<br><br>大豆种植面积的扩大，导致 草 甘 膦 的使用量增加了72%。”<br>昨天我才弄明白这个“农达”原来就是Roundup的音译——说“农达”没多少人知道是什么玩艺，但一说<br><br>Roundup美国人几乎都知道这是美国最厉害的除草剂，价格最贵。我有一美国朋友专门告诉过我，市场上卖的除<br><br>草剂有各种各样：有专给草坪除杂草的，有专给菜园除杂草的，有专给花卉除杂草的，不能弄错，否则可能适<br><br>得其反，想除的没除掉，想保护的反倒给杀死了。 <br>但最不能用错的就是Roundup，那可是除草剂之王，所到之处一切植物全部杀光——英文round up 的意思是“<br><br>兜捕”、“围而歼之”，而Roundup的意思简直可以说就是“格杀勿论”、“一扫而光”、“斩草除根”、“斩<br><br>尽杀绝”、“寸草不留”。（我亲眼见识过，确实所向披靡，横扫一切。） <br><br>
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<a>takeitoutwxd</a>
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<a name="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304_fans_num" id="31b074616b6569746f7574777864c304_fans_num">12</a>位粉丝
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<p class="floor">9楼</p>
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这玩艺的祖宗就是美军在越南战争中大量使用的落叶剂——橙剂（Agent Orange），而孟山都公司当年就是美<br><br>军使用的落叶剂的主要生产商。把当年的落叶剂技术进一步发展，就成了今天的Roundup——孟山都公司的“军<br><br>转民”。 虽然说把生化武器的“落叶剂”变为和平用途的“除草剂”是“放下屠刀、立地成佛”的善举，不过<br><br>这“善”是从邪恶中来，骨子里可不善，始终透着一股邪气、杀气，稍不留神就能伤人——商店里的除草剂都<br><br>是密封的，但那股子怪味怎么密封都封不住，隔老远就能呛得人头昏目花眼泪鼻涕跑冒滴漏浑身不自在。难怪<br><br>有人告诉我生产这玩艺的工厂的工人中净是男不男女不女生不出娃娃的——连孟山都公司自己都在Roundup的使<br><br>用说明里明明白白告诫：这玩艺对人体有害，对环境有害，不能沾到眼睛，不能沾到衣服，不能沾到水源。<br><br>附文三： 决战时刻到了，决战阶段已提前来临<br><br>没时间了，春耕在即，十几天几十天内，中华民族就有可能败局已定了，十几天几十天内，中华民族灭亡就有<br><br>可能已成定局了，若敌对势力，发现全国人民已觉醒，加快行动把转基因水稻五年全国推广改为一年推广，以<br><br>转基因水稻推广立法为理由，逼迫诱骗全国农民及基层政府组织，十几天几十天内，把转基因种子埋入地，立<br><br>刻撒上转基因专用杀虫剂，十几天几十天内，中华民族灭亡就已成定局了，<br><br>网民们版主们，中华民族的命运就掌握在你们手里，但只省十几天几十天，决战阶段已提前来临了，为了今后<br><br>还有春节，这个春节不过了，希望全国网民立刻行动起来，<br><br>奔赴农村，向农民宣传，不种转基因种子，不洒转基因专用农药，<br>向基层政府宣传，不种转基因种子，不洒转基因专用农药，<br>在相关部门网民应严格监视转基因种子及其专用杀虫剂向基层流动的每一个环节。从交通运输， 到仓库储存。<br>接触过转基因种子及其专用杀从剂专业点的网民马上提供一些他们的特征。以利于全民监督。<br><br>不要指望敌人会手软，不要指望敌人会行动慢，一切都有可能！敌人会用你想得到的和想不到的一切手段，致<br><br>你于死地，所以，全体网民要用尽一切体力和脑力和资源，防止决战时刻决战阶段受骗受糊弄，记住中华民族<br><br>利益高于一切，为了中华民族根本利益可以牺牲一切法律规章制度和道德，一切法律规章制度和道德是为中华<br><br>民族根本利益服务的。<br><br>中国地方大, 有地躲, 所以亡国; 日本地方小, 没地躲, 所以一亿玉碎, 玉碎而后生.<br> 可问题是转基因之战, 你在中国无处可逃, 转基因, 百草亡, 土地全覆没了, 没地方种了, 到时侯你再种<br><br>其它非转基因的作物, 全部作物都会死. <br><br>古书中讲了许多国难当头集体冷血的例子, 国难当头集体冷血, 都以为不会亡, 都想保全自己, 都往后缩, 都<br><br>指望别人, 结果全死, 结果全被弱敌屠杀.<br><br>大家都以为不会亡时, 就是快亡了; 大家都感到危险了危机重重了马上就完蛋了, 没有退路了, 国家就有希望<br><br>了, 大家就都能活了.<br> 岳飞800破十万;<br> 杨素300破五万;<br> 刘裕以一破千;<br><br>古人常说: 死中求生, 败中求胜. <br> 今天, 最聪明的民族, 不要有最愚蠢的想法, 最冷血的想法, 最找死的想法! 记住旁观是死，冷血是死，<br><br>退缩是死！<br>死中求生, 败中求胜. 华夏先烈们打下基业, 千万不要在十几天内毁在咱们自己手里。<br><br>一切农业资源都掌握在敌对势力手里，如果敌人更精一点的话，恐怕转基因种子和专用农药此时已到了全国每<br><br>个县每个乡的仓库，马上就会向农民免费发放，这次转基因立法，就是为今春全国行动而策划。<br><br>转基因水稻全国推广, 国难当头, 民族危在旦夕, 为了中华民族的根本利益，请版主速放此贴，所有中国人都<br><br>已经没退路啦！为了中华民族的根本利益，请全国论坛及版主及马甲团结起来！行动起来<br><a>http://bbs1.people.com.cn/postDetail.do?boardId=1&treeView=1&view=2&id=97737779</a> 原帖<br> <br>
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|
| 1002 |
+
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|
| 1003 |
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|
| 1004 |
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|
| 1005 |
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|
| 1006 |
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|
| 1007 |
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|
| 1008 |
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|
| 1009 |
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'本吧目前仅限吧务团队及注册满一定时间的老用户发贴，不能使用匿名发贴功能',
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|
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'抱歉，根据相关法律法规和政策，本吧目前仅限会员发贴',
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| 1016 |
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| 1020 |
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| 1021 |
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|
| 1037 |
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|
| 1039 |
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/*** 初始化str2的值 ****/
|
| 1040 |
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|
| 1041 |
+
|
| 1042 |
+
|
| 1043 |
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|
| 1044 |
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|
| 1045 |
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|
| 1046 |
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|
| 1047 |
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| 1048 |
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|
| 1049 |
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|
| 1050 |
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|
| 1051 |
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</div>
|
| 1052 |
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|
| 1053 |
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</div>
|
| 1054 |
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</div>
|
| 1055 |
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|
| 1056 |
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|
| 1057 |
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|
| 1058 |
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|
| 1059 |
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|
| 1060 |
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|
| 1061 |
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|
| 1062 |
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|
| 1063 |
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|
| 1064 |
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|
| 1065 |
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|
| 1066 |
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|
| 1067 |
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<img>
|
| 1076 |
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|
| 1077 |
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|
| 1078 |
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|
| 1079 |
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|
| 1080 |
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|
| 1081 |
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|
| 1082 |
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|
| 1083 |
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var cpro_forum_type='';
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| 1084 |
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var cpro_maxnum=0;
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| 1126 |
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| 1127 |
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| 1128 |
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|
| 1129 |
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| 1131 |
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| 1132 |
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| 1133 |
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|
| 1134 |
+
arrBaiduCproConfig['hn'] = cpNum;
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| 1139 |
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|
| 1140 |
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|
| 1141 |
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|
| 1142 |
+
if(typeof(calcCproNumber)=='function'){
|
| 1143 |
+
calcCproNumber();
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| 1144 |
+
/*
|
| 1145 |
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if (document.images) {
|
| 1146 |
+
var img = new Image();
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| 1147 |
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window["bd_pv_" + (new Date().getTime())] = img;
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| 1148 |
+
img.src ="http://static.tieba.baidu.com/tb/img/pv.gif"+"?area=pbCproEnd" + "&t=" + new Date().getTime();
|
| 1149 |
+
img=null;
|
| 1150 |
+
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|
| 1151 |
+
*/
|
| 1152 |
+
}
|
| 1153 |
+
|
| 1154 |
+
|
| 1155 |
+
|
| 1156 |
+
|
| 1157 |
+
|
| 1158 |
+
// out link count
|
| 1159 |
+
NsLogLinker.bind(110);
|
| 1160 |
+
|
| 1161 |
+
|
| 1162 |
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|
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|
| 1 |
+
|
| 2 |
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|
| 3 |
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|
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+
<meta charset="utf-8">
|
| 5 |
+
<title>Working class culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>
|
| 6 |
+
<meta>
|
| 7 |
+
<link rel="alternate">
|
| 8 |
+
<link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page">
|
| 9 |
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<link rel="edit" title="Edit this page">
|
| 10 |
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<link rel="apple-touch-icon">
|
| 11 |
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<link rel="shortcut icon">
|
| 12 |
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<link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" title="Wikipedia (en)">
|
| 13 |
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<link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml">
|
| 14 |
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<link rel="copyright">
|
| 15 |
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<link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed">
|
| 16 |
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<link rel="canonical">
|
| 17 |
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<meta>
|
| 18 |
+
<style>a:lang(ar),a:lang(kk-arab),a:lang(mzn),a:lang(ps),a:lang(ur){text-decoration:none;}</style>
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| 19 |
+
|
| 20 |
+
if(window.mw){
|
| 21 |
+
mw.config.set({"wgCanonicalNamespace":"","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":0,"wgPageName":"Working_class_culture","wgTitle":"Working class culture","wgCurRevisionId":672340113,"wgRevisionId":672340113,"wgArticleId":1058116,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":["Articles lacking sources from November 2006","All articles lacking sources","Articles with limited geographic scope from September 2010","Social class subcultures","Working class"],"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy","wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgMonthNamesShort":["","Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec"],"wgRelevantPageName":"Working_class_culture","wgRelevantArticleId":1058116,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wikilove-recipient":"","wikilove-anon":0,"wgPoweredByHHVM":true,"wgWikiEditorEnabledModules":{"toolbar":true,"dialogs":true,"hidesig":true,"preview":false,"publish":false},"wgBetaFeaturesFeatures":[],"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","usePageImages":true,"usePageDescriptions":true},"wgGatherShouldShowTutorial":true,"wgULSAcceptLanguageList":["en-us"],"wgULSCurrentAutonym":"English","wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1,"quality":2,"pristine":3}}},"wgStableRevisionId":null,"wgCategoryTreePageCategoryOptions":"{\"mode\":0,\"hideprefix\":20,\"showcount\":true,\"namespaces\":false}","wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgWikibaseItemId":"Q4354941","wgVisualEditorToolbarScrollOffset":0});
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|
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|
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|
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|
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<link rel="dns-prefetch">
|
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|
| 35 |
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|
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<div id="mw-page-base" class="noprint"></div>
|
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|
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<div id="content" class="mw-body">
|
| 39 |
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<a id="top"></a>
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| 40 |
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|
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<div id="siteNotice"></div>
|
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<div class="mw-indicators">
|
| 43 |
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|
| 44 |
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<h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading" lang="en">Working class culture</h1>
|
| 45 |
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<div id="bodyContent" class="mw-body-content">
|
| 46 |
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<div id="siteSub">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div>
|
| 47 |
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<div id="contentSub"></div>
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| 48 |
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<div id="jump-to-nav" class="mw-jump">
|
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Jump to: <a href="#mw-head">navigation</a>, <a href="#p-search">search</a>
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|
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|
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<div><img alt="" width="40" height="40"></div>
|
| 55 |
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</td>
|
| 56 |
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<td class="mbox-text">
|
| 57 |
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<table class="collapsible">
|
| 58 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 59 |
+
<th>This article has multiple issues. <span>Please help <b><a class="external text">improve it</a></b> or discuss these issues on the <b><a title="Talk:Working class culture">talk page</a></b>.</span></th>
|
| 60 |
+
</tr>
|
| 61 |
+
<tr>
|
| 62 |
+
<td>
|
| 63 |
+
<table class="metadata plainlinks ambox ambox-content ambox-Unreferenced">
|
| 64 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 65 |
+
<td class="mbox-image">
|
| 66 |
+
<div><a class="image"><img alt="" width="50" height="39"></a></div>
|
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<td class="mbox-text"><span class="mbox-text-span">This article <b>does not <a title="Wikipedia:Citing sources">cite</a> any <a title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">references or sources</a></b>. <span class="hide-when-compact">Please help <a class="external text">improve this article</a> by <a title="Help:Introduction to referencing/1">adding citations to reliable sources</a>. Unsourced material may be challenged and <a title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">removed</a>.</span> <small><i>(November 2006)</i></small></span></td>
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<td class="mbox-text"><span class="mbox-text-span">The examples and perspective in this article <b>may not represent a <a title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias">worldwide view</a> of the subject</b>. <span class="hide-when-compact">Please <a class="external text">improve this article</a> and discuss the issue on the <a title="Talk:Working class culture">talk page</a>.</span> <small><i>(September 2010)</i></small></span></td>
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<p><b><a title="Working class">Working class</a> culture</b> is a range of <a title="Culture">cultures</a> created by or popular among <a title="Working class">working class</a> people. The cultures can be contrasted with <a title="High culture">high culture</a> and <a title="Folk culture">folk culture</a>, and are sometimes equated with <a title="Popular culture">popular culture</a> and <a title="Low culture">low culture</a> (the counterpart of high culture).</p>
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<p><a title="Working class">Working class</a> culture is extremely geographically diverse, leading some to question whether the cultures have anything in common. Many socialists with a <a title="Class struggle" class="mw-redirect">class struggle</a> viewpoint see its importance as arising from the <a title="Proletariat">proletariat</a> they champion. Some states that claim to be <a title="Communism">communist</a> have declared an official working class culture, most notably <a title="Socialist realism">socialist realism</a>, which aims to glorify the worker. However, glorification of the worker in abstract is seldom a feature of independent working class cultures. Other socialists such as <a title="Lenin" class="mw-redirect">Lenin</a> believed that there could be no authentic proletarian culture free from <a title="Capitalism">capitalism</a>, and that high culture should not be outside the experience of workers.</p>
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<p>Working class culture developed during the <a title="Industrial Revolution">Industrial Revolution</a>. Because most of the newly created working class were former <a title="Peasant">peasants</a>, the cultures took on much of the localised folk culture. This was soon altered by the changed conditions of social relationships and the increased mobility of the workforce, and later by the marketing of <a title="Mass-produced" class="mw-redirect">mass-produced</a> cultural artefacts such as <a title="Printmaking">prints</a> and ornaments, and events such as <a title="Music hall">music hall</a> and <a title="Film">cinema</a>.</p>
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<h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Portrayals_in_popular_culture">Portrayals in popular culture</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a title="Edit section: Portrayals in popular culture">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2>
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<p>Working class culture has been portrayed on TV shows such as <i><a title="Roseanne (TV series)" class="mw-redirect">Roseanne</a></i>, <i><a title="Good Times">Good Times</a></i>, <i><a title="Married... with Children">Married...With Children</a></i>, <i><a title="All in the Family">All in the Family</a></i>, and <i><a title="Shameless (U.S. TV series)">Shameless</a></i> in which American families struggle to pay for basic needs. In the United States, working-class culture is sometimes associated with Southern culture. Thus, shows like <i><a title="The Dukes of Hazzard">The Dukes of Hazzard</a></i> or <i><a title="The Beverly Hillbillies">The Beverly Hillbillies</a></i> can be seen as examples of that culture. The English TV show <i><a title="Shameless (UK TV series)">Shameless</a></i> highlights working class life in a <a title="Manchester">Manchester</a> suburb as does its American namesake set in <a title="Chicago">Chicago</a>.</p>
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<p>One of Australian <a title="Pub rock (Australia)">pub rock</a> singer <a title="Jimmy Barnes">Jimmy Barnes</a>' more popular songs, "<a title="Working Class Man">Working Class Man</a>" references working class culture and hardships.</p>
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<p>Along with <a title="Lad culture">lad culture</a> in the U.K., some <a title="Youth subculture">youth subcultures</a> such as <a title="Skinhead">skinheads</a>, punks, rockers and metalheads have been associated with working class culture. In the U.S., especially, some White Americans have reclaimed the usually derogatory term <a title="Redneck">redneck</a> as an identifier with working class White Americans. Many may deliberately embrace redneck stereotypes but choose to avoid usage of the word due to its frequent association with negative attitudes such as <a title="Racism">racism</a>. <a title="Jeff Foxworthy">Jeff Foxworthy</a> and <a title="Larry the Cable Guy">Larry the Cable Guy</a> of the <a title="Blue Collar Comedy Tour">Blue Collar Comedy Tour</a> are among the most popularized examples of redneck culture being embraced ironically.</p>
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<p>Some sports such as <a title="Rugby league football" class="mw-redirect">rugby league football</a>, <a title="Darts">darts</a> and <a title="Association football">association football</a>, which is sometimes referred to as the working man's game, are associated with the working class in the U.K. In the U.S., <a title="Ten pin bowling" class="mw-redirect">ten pin bowling</a>, <a title="American Football" class="mw-redirect">American Football</a> and <a title="Baseball">baseball</a> are associated with the working class.</p>
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<h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Further_reading">Further reading</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a title="Edit section: Further reading">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2>
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<ul>
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<li>Navickas, Katrina, "What happened to class? New histories of labour and collective action in Britain," <i>Social History,</i> May 2011, Vol. 36 Issue 2, pp 192–204.</li>
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<li>Rose, Jonathan, <i>The Intellectual Life of the British Working Classes</i>. New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2001.</li>
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<h2><span class="mw-headline" id="See_also">See also</span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a title="Edit section: See also">edit</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></h2>
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<li><a title="Labor history (discipline)">Labor history</a></li>
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<li><a title="Proletarian literature">Proletarian literature</a></li>
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<div id="catlinks" class="catlinks"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a title="Category:Social class subcultures">Social class subcultures</a></li><li><a title="Category:Working class">Working class</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a title="Category:Articles lacking sources from November 2006">Articles lacking sources from November 2006</a></li><li><a title="Category:All articles lacking sources">All articles lacking sources</a></li><li><a title="Category:Articles with limited geographic scope from September 2010">Articles with limited geographic scope from September 2010</a></li></ul></div></div> <div class="visualClear"></div>
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|
| 1 |
+
|
| 2 |
+
|
| 3 |
+
<meta charset="utf-8">
|
| 4 |
+
<title>The Katyn Forest Whodunnit, revised 11.27.12</title>
|
| 5 |
+
|
| 6 |
+
|
| 7 |
+
|
| 8 |
+
|
| 9 |
+
<p>[last revised August 6 2013]</p>
|
| 10 |
+
|
| 11 |
+
<h1><a name="The Katyn Forest Whodunnit">The Katyn Forest Whodunnit</a></h1>
|
| 12 |
+
|
| 13 |
+
<p><em>Also called: "The Truth About the Katyn Massacre" --
|
| 14 |
+
because you won't get the truth about it anywhere else. Everybody "knows" they
|
| 15 |
+
are right -- but they do not know! </em></p>
|
| 16 |
+
<div>
|
| 17 |
+
|
| 18 |
+
<table>
|
| 19 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 20 |
+
<td><p><a name="Breaking News: August 6, 2013"><strong>Breaking News: August 6, 2013</strong></a></p>
|
| 21 |
+
<p><em> </em><strong><a>My
|
| 22 |
+
article "The 'Official' Version of the Katyn Massacre Disproven?</a> Discoveries at a
|
| 23 |
+
German Mass Murder Site in Ukraine." is published in <em>Socialism and Democracy</em>
|
| 24 |
+
Vol. 27, No. 2 (August 2013).</strong> </p>
|
| 25 |
+
<p>You can download the "preprint" version of this article here;.
|
| 26 |
+
It's identical to the published version, which the publisher embargoes for 18 months after
|
| 27 |
+
publication. The "preprint" does contain photographs that are not in the printed
|
| 28 |
+
version.</p>
|
| 29 |
+
<p>Why did I decide to write about Katyn when I have vowed for 7 years <em>never
|
| 30 |
+
</em> to do so? Because -- unexpectedly -- proof has been discovered that </p>
|
| 31 |
+
<ul>
|
| 32 |
+
<li><p>(a) cannot be questioned -- it was discovered by Polish and Ukrainian
|
| 33 |
+
archaeologists who cannot possibly be accused of "trying" to discredit the
|
| 34 |
+
"official", "the-Soviets-did-it" version of Katyn; and </p>
|
| 35 |
+
</li>
|
| 36 |
+
<li><p>(b) is irrefutable evidence that the "official" narrative of
|
| 37 |
+
"Katyn" has to be false. </p>
|
| 38 |
+
</li>
|
| 39 |
+
</ul>
|
| 40 |
+
<p><strong>Whatever <em>did</em> happen -- most probably a series of
|
| 41 |
+
massacres of Polish officers by German forces and their Ukrainian Nationalist
|
| 42 |
+
collaborators -- the "official narrative" <em>has</em> to be wrong.</strong></p></td>
|
| 43 |
+
</tr>
|
| 44 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 45 |
+
</div>
|
| 46 |
+
|
| 47 |
+
<p>In November 2010 I posted news about the "bombshell revelations"
|
| 48 |
+
(see below) on the H-RUSSIA email list, a mailing list for researchers of Russian and
|
| 49 |
+
Soviet history. </p>
|
| 50 |
+
|
| 51 |
+
<p>Here are links to my posts. </p>
|
| 52 |
+
|
| 53 |
+
<ol>
|
| 54 |
+
<li><p><a>Bombshell
|
| 55 |
+
revelations concerning Katyn (by me)</a>: H-RUSSIA November 27 2010 - or, <a>http://tinyurl.com/katyn-bombshell1</a><br>
|
| 56 |
+
</p>
|
| 57 |
+
</li>
|
| 58 |
+
<li><p><a>Followup
|
| 59 |
+
on Bombshell revelations</a> concerning Katyn H-RUSSIA November 28 2010 - or, <a>http://tinyurl.com/katyn-bombshell2</a><br>
|
| 60 |
+
</p>
|
| 61 |
+
</li>
|
| 62 |
+
<li><p><a>Third
|
| 63 |
+
post of mine about Katyn revelations</a>, H-RUSSIA November 28 2010 - or, <a>http://tinyurl.com/katyn-bombshell3</a><br>
|
| 64 |
+
</p>
|
| 65 |
+
</li>
|
| 66 |
+
<li><p>F<a>ourth
|
| 67 |
+
and last post of mine about Katyn revelations</a>, H-RUSSIA November 29 2010 - , or <a>http://tinyurl.com/katyn-bombshell4</a></p>
|
| 68 |
+
</li>
|
| 69 |
+
</ol>
|
| 70 |
+
|
| 71 |
+
<p>Read these posts! You'll see how angry some list members got simply because I informed
|
| 72 |
+
the list about this development.<br>
|
| 73 |
+
</p>
|
| 74 |
+
<div>
|
| 75 |
+
|
| 76 |
+
<table>
|
| 77 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 78 |
+
<td>November 27 2010<h3><a name="Bombshell revelations concerning Katyn -- Part 2">Bombshell revelations concerning
|
| 79 |
+
Katyn -- Part 2</a></h3>
|
| 80 |
+
<p>Dear friends and colleagues:<br>
|
| 81 |
+
<br>
|
| 82 |
+
Yesterday I sent out an email about the "Katyn massacre bombshell" documents
|
| 83 |
+
released two days ago by Viktor Iliukhin of the Russian Duma. If you didn't get it or want
|
| 84 |
+
to read it again, you can see it <a href="#Bombshell revelations concerning Katyn">here,
|
| 85 |
+
below.</a><br>
|
| 86 |
+
<br>
|
| 87 |
+
In that message I put a few lines of analysis.Here's a bit more such analysis. <br>
|
| 88 |
+
<br>
|
| 89 |
+
On this page,<br>
|
| 90 |
+
<br>
|
| 91 |
+
<a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=205</a><br>
|
| 92 |
+
<br>
|
| 93 |
+
study the first, and last, photos of documents -- down at the bottom. These are among the
|
| 94 |
+
documents Iliukhin revealed 2 days ago. </p>
|
| 95 |
+
<p>They appear to be rough drafts of the first document on this page,<br>
|
| 96 |
+
<br>
|
| 97 |
+
<a>http://katyn.ru/index.php?go=Pages&in=view&id=6<br>
|
| 98 |
+
</a><br>
|
| 99 |
+
This is the "Beria letter", what I refer to as the "smoking gun"
|
| 100 |
+
document. <br>
|
| 101 |
+
<br>
|
| 102 |
+
This "Beria letter", from "Closed Packet No.1", is on NKVD stationery.
|
| 103 |
+
The two purported "rough draft" documents (above) are not.<br>
|
| 104 |
+
<br>
|
| 105 |
+
OK, back to the purported rough draft documents (really, we should call ALL the documents
|
| 106 |
+
here "puported", since the genuineness of all of them is questioned by somebody
|
| 107 |
+
or other):<br>
|
| 108 |
+
<br>
|
| 109 |
+
<a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=205</a><br>
|
| 110 |
+
<br>
|
| 111 |
+
The BOTTOM document here would be an earlier draft than the top document. This BOTTOM
|
| 112 |
+
document contains remarks such as these:</p>
|
| 113 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 114 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 115 |
+
<p>"1). 2). They used to write Ukrainian SSR, Belorussian SSR."</p>
|
| 116 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 117 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 118 |
+
<p>This is to correct the text, where we find "1) Ukraine" and "2)
|
| 119 |
+
Belorussia". <br>
|
| 120 |
+
<br>
|
| 121 |
+
This same suggestion is made further down, where you see "5). 6)".<br>
|
| 122 |
+
<br>
|
| 123 |
+
Again, every instance of "k-r" in the text (meaning
|
| 124 |
+
"counterrevolutionary") is underlinked, and the last marginal comment on this
|
| 125 |
+
page reads </p>
|
| 126 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 127 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 128 |
+
<p>"in the NKVD they did not write 'k.r.'!!!"</p>
|
| 129 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 130 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 131 |
+
<p>At the top of this bottom document are the names of the signatures to be forged. On
|
| 132 |
+
this draft the last two names are Mikoian and Kalinin.<br>
|
| 133 |
+
<br>
|
| 134 |
+
In the later draft, and on the "original", the last two names are Kalinin and
|
| 135 |
+
Kaganovich, whose signatures are not reproduced but noted at the side with a
|
| 136 |
+
"za" -- i.e. they were consulted by telephone.</p>
|
| 137 |
+
<hr>
|
| 138 |
+
<p>So if these documents are genuine, they refute the claim to genuineness of the
|
| 139 |
+
"Beria Letter". And all the other documents in "Closed Packet No. 1"
|
| 140 |
+
would also be fakes, since they all depend on the "Beria Letter."<br>
|
| 141 |
+
<br>
|
| 142 |
+
Iliukhin said last July that one of the men involved in the forgeries had come forward and
|
| 143 |
+
given him materials. He revealed some of them at that time.<br>
|
| 144 |
+
<br>
|
| 145 |
+
Now, he has revealed this -- at a very strategic moment, too.</p>
|
| 146 |
+
<hr>
|
| 147 |
+
<p>Here's the link to Iliukhin's speech to the Duma a couple of days ago:<br>
|
| 148 |
+
<br>
|
| 149 |
+
<a>http://kprf.ru/dep/85043.html</a><br>
|
| 150 |
+
<br>
|
| 151 |
+
It's all interesting. But note that he says the following!</p>
|
| 152 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 153 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 154 |
+
<p>I have put into your hands, and asked to be distributed through the hall, the rough
|
| 155 |
+
draft which became the basis for the forgery of the note of Beria to Stalin. Ten days from
|
| 156 |
+
now my respected colleagues and experts will present their deductions, and I will
|
| 157 |
+
concretely state who was the source of this forgery. They are well-known persons who
|
| 158 |
+
occupy today relatively high positions in our state.</p>
|
| 159 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 160 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 161 |
+
<p>So Iliukhin has promised to "name names" in 10 days. THAT'LL be interesting!</p>
|
| 162 |
+
<hr>
|
| 163 |
+
<p>There are two Swedish blogs that are translating some of these materials into English.
|
| 164 |
+
Go to:<br>
|
| 165 |
+
<br>
|
| 166 |
+
* Mythcracker's Weblog - <a>http://mythcracker.wordpress.com/</a><br>
|
| 167 |
+
<br>
|
| 168 |
+
* Katyn Massacre in Light of New Facts - <a>http://katynmassakern.blogspot.com/</a><br>
|
| 169 |
+
</p></td>
|
| 170 |
+
</tr>
|
| 171 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 172 |
+
</div>
|
| 173 |
+
|
| 174 |
+
<p> </p>
|
| 175 |
+
<div>
|
| 176 |
+
|
| 177 |
+
<table>
|
| 178 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 179 |
+
<td><p>November 26 2010</p>
|
| 180 |
+
<h3><a name="Bombshell revelations concerning Katyn">Bombshell revelations
|
| 181 |
+
concerning Katyn</a></h3>
|
| 182 |
+
<p>On November 24 Viktor Iliukhin, Duma member from the CPRF, released a four-page
|
| 183 |
+
document of what he calls the "draft copy of the falsification of the Beria
|
| 184 |
+
letter". </p>
|
| 185 |
+
<p>The "Beria letter" is the so-called "smoking gun" letter, the
|
| 186 |
+
purported proof, that Stalin et al. ordered the Katyn massacre. </p>
|
| 187 |
+
<p>Here is the URL to the Iliukhin article and what he calls the "draft copy of the
|
| 188 |
+
falsification." The article is in Russian, but look at the document! </p>
|
| 189 |
+
<p>Here's one place you can see the so-called "smoking gun" "Beria
|
| 190 |
+
letter": </p>
|
| 191 |
+
<p><a>http://katyn.ru/index.php?go=Pages&in=view&id=6
|
| 192 |
+
</a></p>
|
| 193 |
+
<p>Here is my quick and dirty comparison, and a few thoughts. </p>
|
| 194 |
+
<hr>
|
| 195 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 196 |
+
<p>Take a look at this article: </p>
|
| 197 |
+
<p><a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=205
|
| 198 |
+
</a></p>
|
| 199 |
+
<p>The images here purport to be the draft of the "Beria
|
| 200 |
+
letter", and to be conclusive evidence that the Beria letter is a forgery. </p>
|
| 201 |
+
<p>If this document is genuine -- that's the real question -- then the
|
| 202 |
+
Beria letter is certainly a forgery. This document would constitute conclusive proof of
|
| 203 |
+
that fact. </p>
|
| 204 |
+
<p>And THAT would mean that "the Soviets did it" version of
|
| 205 |
+
the Katyn Massacre is wrong, and that the Soviets almost certainly did not "do
|
| 206 |
+
it." Maybe they did something along the lines of what Kaganovich evidently alleged --
|
| 207 |
+
see my own Katyn page, at <a>http://www.tinyurl.com/katyn-the-truth</a>
|
| 208 |
+
-- but NOT the whole massacre as alleged. </p>
|
| 209 |
+
<hr>
|
| 210 |
+
<p>I've gone over these 4 pages several times, including with a
|
| 211 |
+
magnifying glass. Of course, it might be a very clever forgery. But it LOOKS genuine
|
| 212 |
+
enough. </p>
|
| 213 |
+
<p>There are a number of places that are especially noteworthy,
|
| 214 |
+
including (but not limited to) the following: </p>
|
| 215 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 216 |
+
<p>* p. 1- The note where the signatures for those approving the
|
| 217 |
+
resolution are to be placed. </p>
|
| 218 |
+
<p>* p. 3 - The second line under point 2). Here the word
|
| 219 |
+
"Ukrainy" is not divided, but is all on the second line. In the
|
| 220 |
+
"original", the word is divided "Ukrai-ny", between lines 2 and 3 of
|
| 221 |
+
point 2). This is the only place where the line breaks are different from the
|
| 222 |
+
"original" -- and proves that this is different typing, not some kind of clever
|
| 223 |
+
photocopy. </p>
|
| 224 |
+
<p>* p. 4 - the note on the left questioning the choice of Bashtakov
|
| 225 |
+
and suggesting other names. </p>
|
| 226 |
+
<p>- Just as Mukhin did, starting in 1995! This would be quite a
|
| 227 |
+
coincidence, and makes me wonder about whether this copy is genuine. </p>
|
| 228 |
+
<p>* p. 4 - The name "Kotunov" written between Merkulov and
|
| 229 |
+
Bashtakov. In the "original" document the name written there is
|
| 230 |
+
"Kobulov". I'm no expert in Russian handwriting, but the third letter in this
|
| 231 |
+
name cannot be a "b". It must be a "t". </p>
|
| 232 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 233 |
+
<p>- This point doesn't prove anything. If the document is genuine,
|
| 234 |
+
then one of the forgers heard or copied Kobulov's name incorrectly. If it's a forgery --
|
| 235 |
+
same thing. Most interesting is this: the HANDWRITING on the "original" and on
|
| 236 |
+
this purported draft look identical! That would argue for its being genuine. </p>
|
| 237 |
+
<p>IMO this is a bombshell, just as Iliukhin's revelations last July
|
| 238 |
+
were (see my Katyn page, above). </p>
|
| 239 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 240 |
+
</td>
|
| 241 |
+
</tr>
|
| 242 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 243 |
+
</div>
|
| 244 |
+
|
| 245 |
+
<p> </p>
|
| 246 |
+
<div>
|
| 247 |
+
|
| 248 |
+
<table>
|
| 249 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 250 |
+
<td><h3><strong>Dramatic developments in 2010:</strong></h3>
|
| 251 |
+
<p><strong>11.24.10 - <a>Viktor
|
| 252 |
+
Ilyukhin releases purported forger's</a> draft of "smoking gun" "Beria
|
| 253 |
+
letter".</strong></p>
|
| 254 |
+
<h3><small><small>10.09.10 - </small><a>Viktor
|
| 255 |
+
Ilyukhin’s letter to Vladimir Putin</a> re: falsification of Katyn documents</small></h3>
|
| 256 |
+
<h3><small>10.19.10 - <a>Statement
|
| 257 |
+
by CPRF:</a> "The Falsification of History Has Got To Stop"</small></h3>
|
| 258 |
+
<h3><small>Duma Member Viktor Iliukhin says a government-sponsored forgery
|
| 259 |
+
ring forged the Katyn "smoking gun" documents</small></h3>
|
| 260 |
+
<ul>
|
| 261 |
+
<li><p><a>Latest
|
| 262 |
+
article in English </a>(translated September 1 2010 on an English-language blog in
|
| 263 |
+
Sweden): </p>
|
| 264 |
+
<ul>
|
| 265 |
+
<li><p>(<a>Russian
|
| 266 |
+
language original is here</a>, at the <a>www.katyn.ru</a> site)</p>
|
| 267 |
+
</li>
|
| 268 |
+
</ul>
|
| 269 |
+
</li>
|
| 270 |
+
</ul>
|
| 271 |
+
<p><strong>(<a href="#Latest developments in the "Katyn' Affair"">Click
|
| 272 |
+
here</a> to go directly to <a href="#Latest developments in the "Katyn' Affair"">my
|
| 273 |
+
summary of the dramatic latest developments after February 2010.</a>)</strong></p></td>
|
| 274 |
+
</tr>
|
| 275 |
+
<tr>
|
| 276 |
+
<td></td>
|
| 277 |
+
</tr>
|
| 278 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 279 |
+
</div>
|
| 280 |
+
|
| 281 |
+
<p>(<strong>NOTE on Character Encoding in your browser.</strong> If you set
|
| 282 |
+
the Character Encoding in your web browser for "Cyrillic (WIN-1251)" all the
|
| 283 |
+
Russian as well as the English will appear correct except for a few "umlauts."
|
| 284 |
+
To see them set your encoding for "Western (ISO-8859-1)". But then the Russian
|
| 285 |
+
will not appear correctly. - GF)</p>
|
| 286 |
+
|
| 287 |
+
<p>Dear XXX:</p>
|
| 288 |
+
|
| 289 |
+
<p>You say you know the Soviets killed the Polish officers who are buried at Katyn. </p>
|
| 290 |
+
|
| 291 |
+
<p>But you do not know that. You <u>believe</u> that. </p>
|
| 292 |
+
|
| 293 |
+
<p>Belief is not the same thing as knowledge. </p>
|
| 294 |
+
|
| 295 |
+
<p>I've looked into this a good deal. In my view, nobody <u>knows</u>. </p>
|
| 296 |
+
|
| 297 |
+
<p>There is, in fact, widespread disagreement with the thesis that the Soviets killed the
|
| 298 |
+
Polish officers buried at Katyn </p>
|
| 299 |
+
|
| 300 |
+
<p>Take a look at <a>this <em>New
|
| 301 |
+
York Times</em> article from June 29, 1945</a>. It states that Walter Schellenberg, head
|
| 302 |
+
of Hitler's SS intelligence service, told Allied interrogators that the Nazis had
|
| 303 |
+
fabricated the whole issue, and that this account was independently corroborated by a
|
| 304 |
+
Norwegian prisoner. </p>
|
| 305 |
+
|
| 306 |
+
<p>According to the study by Reinhard Doerries, a specialist in the Schellenberg
|
| 307 |
+
interviews (<em>Hitler's last chief of foreign intelligence: Allied interrogations of
|
| 308 |
+
Walter Schellenberg</em>. London: F.Cass, 2003) records of this interrogation of
|
| 309 |
+
Schellenberg have disappeared from the report in the National Archives.* Interesting! </p>
|
| 310 |
+
|
| 311 |
+
<p><em>(* Doerries, p. 45, concerning the intelligence report "Report on the
|
| 312 |
+
Interrogations of Walter Schellenberg 27 June - 12 July 1945", marked
|
| 313 |
+
"Secret": "Although parts of this report give the impression of being
|
| 314 |
+
incomplete,...". Also n.218, p. 353).</em></p>
|
| 315 |
+
|
| 316 |
+
<hr>
|
| 317 |
+
|
| 318 |
+
<p>After this, the Cold War obscures everything. </p>
|
| 319 |
+
|
| 320 |
+
<p>In 1992 Eltsin finally turned over to the Poles some documents that, if genuine, would
|
| 321 |
+
prove Soviet guilt beyond reasonable doubt. </p>
|
| 322 |
+
|
| 323 |
+
<p>However, the genuineness of these documents is in serious dispute. </p>
|
| 324 |
+
|
| 325 |
+
<p>I have studied the documents in question. There is a very good argument to be made that
|
| 326 |
+
they are forgeries. (I'm being very, very brief here). But it is not certain that they
|
| 327 |
+
were -- again, IMO. </p>
|
| 328 |
+
|
| 329 |
+
<p>It's actually fascinating! The "Soviets-did-it" camp simply ignore all the
|
| 330 |
+
evidence that the Soviets did NOT do it, plus the evidence that the "smoking
|
| 331 |
+
gun" Eltsin-era "documents" may be faked. </p>
|
| 332 |
+
|
| 333 |
+
<p>* * * * * </p>
|
| 334 |
+
|
| 335 |
+
<p>Because of the irrationality that goes with the Cold-War, anti-communist side, many
|
| 336 |
+
people automatically assume that, if you do not "accept" -- or better,
|
| 337 |
+
"believe," that's the word -- the "Soviets-did-it" evidence
|
| 338 |
+
"valid", then you are <u>denying</u> that the Soviets did it. </p>
|
| 339 |
+
|
| 340 |
+
<p>That is nonsense, of course. Even if these documents turn out to have been forgeries,
|
| 341 |
+
that would not mean the Soviets didn't do it. It would simply mean that the evidence
|
| 342 |
+
doesn't prove they did. </p>
|
| 343 |
+
|
| 344 |
+
<p>Maybe the Soviets did it! After all, either the Soviets killed the Polish officers, or
|
| 345 |
+
the Nazis did. </p>
|
| 346 |
+
|
| 347 |
+
<p><u>Or -- as I am increasingly inclined to think -- the Soviets shot some of the Polish
|
| 348 |
+
officers, and then later the Nazis shot the rest, for different reasons. </u></p>
|
| 349 |
+
|
| 350 |
+
<p>So, <u>maybe</u> the Soviets did shoot them all. But the evidence is not there. </p>
|
| 351 |
+
|
| 352 |
+
<hr>
|
| 353 |
+
|
| 354 |
+
<p>Here is the bottom line problem with the Eltsin "documents" -- there is no
|
| 355 |
+
"chain of custody" of the evidence. </p>
|
| 356 |
+
|
| 357 |
+
<p>For example the markings on the envelope containing these documents suggest they were
|
| 358 |
+
shown to all First Secretaries of the Communist Party. But there are no markings to
|
| 359 |
+
indicate they were ever shown to Gorbachev, and Gorbachev never referred to them. </p>
|
| 360 |
+
|
| 361 |
+
<p>Supposedly they were "discovered" in 1989. But Gorbachev denies having seen
|
| 362 |
+
them, or knowing about them at all, at all until December 23, 1991, two days before he
|
| 363 |
+
left office. (On these points see <em>New York Times</em> articles of October 15, 1992, p.
|
| 364 |
+
A1 and October 16, 1992, p.A6, available from the <u>Historical New York Times</u>
|
| 365 |
+
database).</p>
|
| 366 |
+
|
| 367 |
+
<p>Is it possible that they really existed, yet were never shown to Gorbachev? Who would
|
| 368 |
+
have dared keep them from him?</p>
|
| 369 |
+
|
| 370 |
+
<p>There are a lot of internal problems with the documents that suggest they may have been
|
| 371 |
+
forged. They've been thoroughly discussed in a number of books (all are in Russian).</p>
|
| 372 |
+
|
| 373 |
+
<p>Put the "chain of custody" issue -- the fact that these documents were not
|
| 374 |
+
made public until 1992 but marks on the envelope show that they were
|
| 375 |
+
"discovered" in 1989 -- with the internal problems, and you have a set of
|
| 376 |
+
documents of doubtful validity. </p>
|
| 377 |
+
|
| 378 |
+
<p>Furthermore, the central document was supposedly signed by Lavrentiy Beria. But other
|
| 379 |
+
forged "Beria" documents have been published in post-Soviet Russia, including
|
| 380 |
+
some that were "inserted" into the Archives after they were forged. So
|
| 381 |
+
"Beria" documents are suspicious.</p>
|
| 382 |
+
|
| 383 |
+
<p>Also, <u>any</u> documents that suddenly "emerge" and purport to
|
| 384 |
+
"solve" long-standing historical controversies are to be regarded with suspicion
|
| 385 |
+
<u>ipso facto</u>. </p>
|
| 386 |
+
|
| 387 |
+
<p>However, I'm not convinced the documents are forged either. </p>
|
| 388 |
+
|
| 389 |
+
<hr>
|
| 390 |
+
|
| 391 |
+
<p>In his recent book <em>Stalin's Wars</em> British historian Geoffrey Roberts makes what
|
| 392 |
+
I take to be some equivocal remarks about Katyn. Here's my take on them.</p>
|
| 393 |
+
|
| 394 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 395 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 396 |
+
<p>Roberts summarizes the canonical, "the Soviets did it" view of Katyn, but in
|
| 397 |
+
his footnote (n.27, p. 399) says that his accounts are based "mainly on two
|
| 398 |
+
collections of documents from the Russian/Soviet archives: <em>Katyn': Plenniki
|
| 399 |
+
Neob'yavlennoi Voiny</em>, Moscow 1997 and <em>Katyn': Mart 1940g.-Sentyabr' 2000 g</em>,
|
| 400 |
+
Moscow 2001." </p>
|
| 401 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 402 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 403 |
+
|
| 404 |
+
<p>Why tell us this? I assume the purpose is to say: "I'm just summarizing these
|
| 405 |
+
authoritative accounts." That is, "I'm not taking an independent position on
|
| 406 |
+
this." </p>
|
| 407 |
+
|
| 408 |
+
<p>THEN Roberts goes out of his way to quote Averill Harriman's account from the
|
| 409 |
+
still-private Harriman papers. He quotes Kathleen Harriman twice -- she was invited by the
|
| 410 |
+
Soviets to view Katyn' while the Burdenko (Soviet) commission was there in January 1944. </p>
|
| 411 |
+
|
| 412 |
+
<p>In the footnote (n.29, p. 400) Roberts records Harriman's summarizing his daughter's
|
| 413 |
+
conclusion that "from the general evidence and the testimony Kathleen and the Embassy
|
| 414 |
+
staff member believe that in all probability the massacre was perpetrated by the
|
| 415 |
+
Germans." </p>
|
| 416 |
+
|
| 417 |
+
<p>In the TEXT (pp. 171-2) -- not everybody reads all the footnotes, of course -- there's
|
| 418 |
+
a much longer quotation from Kathleen Harriman. </p>
|
| 419 |
+
|
| 420 |
+
<p>First, she remarks on how "fresh" the bodies looked. This was a big issue
|
| 421 |
+
with Burdenko. The Germans said the Soviets had shot the Polish officers in the Spring of
|
| 422 |
+
1940, which would have meant they'd have been in the ground during <u>three </u>whole
|
| 423 |
+
summers, when the earth is warm and decomposition would be rapid. </p>
|
| 424 |
+
|
| 425 |
+
<p>The Soviets contended that the Germans had shot the Poles in the Fall of 1941, so
|
| 426 |
+
they'd have been in the ground during only <u>two</u> summers (1942 and 1943). Logically,
|
| 427 |
+
therefore, better preserved bodies would point towards German guilt. </p>
|
| 428 |
+
|
| 429 |
+
<p>Problem is: what's the standard of comparison for the "freshness" of corpses
|
| 430 |
+
buried in that soil and that climate? There isn't one; so "freshness" is not a
|
| 431 |
+
reliable indication of anything. </p>
|
| 432 |
+
|
| 433 |
+
<p>But Roberts then includes the following sentence from Kathleen Harriman's account: </p>
|
| 434 |
+
|
| 435 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 436 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 437 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 438 |
+
<p><strong><em>"Though the Germans had ripped open the Poles' pockets, they'd missed
|
| 439 |
+
some written documents. While I was watching, they found one letter dated the summer of
|
| 440 |
+
'41, which is damned good evidence." </em></strong></p>
|
| 441 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 442 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 443 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 444 |
+
|
| 445 |
+
<p>Well, THAT'S useful information! Roberts simply does not comment on it further. </p>
|
| 446 |
+
|
| 447 |
+
<p>Question is: Why did Roberts put this in at all? There can be only one reason: to
|
| 448 |
+
signal to the attentive reader that he is not taking a position of his own on Katyn'. He's
|
| 449 |
+
just putting the evidence down, leaving the reader to infer that it is contradictory while
|
| 450 |
+
not explicitly saying so himself -- that would get him into trouble with the
|
| 451 |
+
"right-thinking" anticommunists -- and moving on. </p>
|
| 452 |
+
|
| 453 |
+
<p>That's the way I read Roberts' remarks, anyway.</p>
|
| 454 |
+
|
| 455 |
+
<p>Perhaps this paper was "planted" by the Soviets, to dupe Ms Harriman? Sure --
|
| 456 |
+
and perhaps all the similar papers found by the Germans were planted by <u>them</u>, to
|
| 457 |
+
fool the Polish Red Cross and other observers in 1943.</p>
|
| 458 |
+
|
| 459 |
+
<p>Or, maybe <u>none</u> of these documents were "planted" -- which would mean
|
| 460 |
+
that the Soviets had shot some of the officers, and the Germans shot others. But nobody
|
| 461 |
+
wants to hear <u>that</u>! Certainly not the Polish nationalists and anticommunists,
|
| 462 |
+
because it would ruin a perfectly good "communist atrocity story."</p>
|
| 463 |
+
|
| 464 |
+
<hr>
|
| 465 |
+
|
| 466 |
+
<p>There is lots of other tantalizing stuff. For example, the German Report itself, <em>Amtliches
|
| 467 |
+
Material zum Massenmord von Katyn</em> (Berlin: Zentralverlag der NSDAP, Franz Eher Nachf.
|
| 468 |
+
G.m.b.H., 1943) reproduces on p. 330 a very poorly-preserved document from a body at
|
| 469 |
+
Katyn. </p>
|
| 470 |
+
|
| 471 |
+
<p>You can't read the date on the reproduction, but the <u>caption</u> says the document
|
| 472 |
+
is from "October 20, 1941." I've put <a>a PDF copy of
|
| 473 |
+
this page on line here</a>. Check it out! (The underlining of the date on this page is by
|
| 474 |
+
me).</p>
|
| 475 |
+
|
| 476 |
+
<p>A mistake? Sure, any way you look at it, the Nazis would not have wanted a date after
|
| 477 |
+
Spring 1940 in their report! </p>
|
| 478 |
+
|
| 479 |
+
<p>But is this a "misprint"? Or is it a German clerk back in Berlin reading the
|
| 480 |
+
original document and simply putting down the date he saw, which then gets through some
|
| 481 |
+
German proofreader? </p>
|
| 482 |
+
|
| 483 |
+
<p>In general, all the "Soviets-Did-It" accounts rely heavily on this German,
|
| 484 |
+
i.e. Nazi, report. It is amazing that "scholars" are so ready to believe this
|
| 485 |
+
Goebbels propaganda report.</p>
|
| 486 |
+
|
| 487 |
+
<p>And there are lots of other problems with the report too. For one thing, the Captain (<em>Hauptmann</em>)
|
| 488 |
+
named in the above document is <u>not</u> on the list of bodies given in the German
|
| 489 |
+
report. So where did this document come from?</p>
|
| 490 |
+
|
| 491 |
+
<hr>
|
| 492 |
+
|
| 493 |
+
<p>The major attempt to prove that the Soviets did <u>not</u> do it is IUrii Mukhin, <em>Antirossiiskaia
|
| 494 |
+
Podlost'</em> (Moscow: Krymskii Most 9-D, 2003). It's a fascinating work! And, at
|
| 495 |
+
762 pages in Russian, not a "popular" work. I've read it four times, cover to
|
| 496 |
+
cover. (An earlier work by Mukhin, <em>Katynskii Detektiv</em>, is very briefly summarized
|
| 497 |
+
<a>here</a>).</p>
|
| 498 |
+
|
| 499 |
+
<p>An even more recent book is by Viacheslav Shved, <em>Taina Katyni</em>, also now
|
| 500 |
+
available online <a>here</a>.
|
| 501 |
+
Shved has also concluded that the Soviets did shoot some of the Poles. He has a number of
|
| 502 |
+
articles online as well.</p>
|
| 503 |
+
|
| 504 |
+
<p>Mukhin's later, large work, as well as that of Shved and others, is completely ignored
|
| 505 |
+
by those who claim the "Soviets Did It." Why? Your guess is as good as mine! </p>
|
| 506 |
+
|
| 507 |
+
<p>No, let me correct that. Mukhin's, Shved's, et al. work is ignored BECAUSE it questions
|
| 508 |
+
the "official version", the "canonical" anticommunist and Polish
|
| 509 |
+
nationalist story. </p>
|
| 510 |
+
|
| 511 |
+
<p>By "ignored", I mean -- completely omitted. For example, see the latest
|
| 512 |
+
volume in the Yale University Press 'Annals of Communism' series, <em>Katyn. A Crime
|
| 513 |
+
Without Punishment</em> (Yale U.P., 2007. </p>
|
| 514 |
+
|
| 515 |
+
<p><strong>This 558-page work does not even mention that there is a controversy over the
|
| 516 |
+
Eltsin documents and the Katyn massacre! </strong>Yes this is what "scholarly"
|
| 517 |
+
works are supposed to do, right -- discuss historical controversies, analyze the evidence,
|
| 518 |
+
and so on? </p>
|
| 519 |
+
|
| 520 |
+
<p>After all, why ruin a perfectly good anticommunist account by dealing honestly with the
|
| 521 |
+
controversy and evidence that exists?</p>
|
| 522 |
+
|
| 523 |
+
<p>There is a huge amount of DENIAL going on about this and other issues in Soviet history
|
| 524 |
+
during the Stalin period. </p>
|
| 525 |
+
|
| 526 |
+
<hr>
|
| 527 |
+
|
| 528 |
+
<p>OK, So where does that leave the question? Here is what I think: </p>
|
| 529 |
+
|
| 530 |
+
<p><strong>NOBODY CARES what happened to the Polish officers!</strong> Nobody, including
|
| 531 |
+
the Poles. </p>
|
| 532 |
+
|
| 533 |
+
<p>Furthermore, <strong>nobody EVER cared</strong>, even at the time! </p>
|
| 534 |
+
|
| 535 |
+
<p>The Polish government-in-exile, during the war, while the Nazis were slaughtering Poles
|
| 536 |
+
in huge numbers, chose to <u>believe the Nazi account</u>! </p>
|
| 537 |
+
|
| 538 |
+
<p>They never interrogated this Nazi story. They just accepted it. If they really cared
|
| 539 |
+
about these men, why would they do this? </p>
|
| 540 |
+
|
| 541 |
+
<p>IMO, they did it because they were far more hostile to the Soviets than they ever were
|
| 542 |
+
to the Germans. The Polish government were fascists themselves. </p>
|
| 543 |
+
|
| 544 |
+
<p>And since then, the "Katyn massacre" has been a bully stick to beat the
|
| 545 |
+
Soviets with. It still is -- more "evidence" that "communism is bad." </p>
|
| 546 |
+
|
| 547 |
+
<p>So the "consensus" historians have never troubled to look at the evidence in
|
| 548 |
+
an objective fashion. And they are not going to do so. </p>
|
| 549 |
+
|
| 550 |
+
<p>That's why we don't know. </p>
|
| 551 |
+
|
| 552 |
+
<hr>
|
| 553 |
+
|
| 554 |
+
<p>Meanwhile, there are some very good books -- in Russian, of course -- arguing the case
|
| 555 |
+
that the Nazis, not the Russians, did it. </p>
|
| 556 |
+
|
| 557 |
+
<p>I spent part of my vacation in the summer of 2005 summer going over a translation into
|
| 558 |
+
English of one of them, by a Swedish guy (in Sweden). A valiant attempt (I had read the
|
| 559 |
+
book in Russian many times). Let's hope he finishes it, but he hasn't yet. His knowledge
|
| 560 |
+
of English is very good, though far from perfect, and his knowledge of Russian is less
|
| 561 |
+
good, but he has me to help him. </p>
|
| 562 |
+
|
| 563 |
+
<p>Still, it's not out yet, and this Russian book is already more than a decade old
|
| 564 |
+
(1995). Meanwhile, there's lots more, newer, better stuff. </p>
|
| 565 |
+
|
| 566 |
+
<hr>
|
| 567 |
+
|
| 568 |
+
<p>For you Russian-readers out there, here are the two main sites, each with a ton of
|
| 569 |
+
documents: </p>
|
| 570 |
+
|
| 571 |
+
<p>"The Soviets Did It, Those Dirty Commies" -- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://katyn.codis.ru</a>
|
| 572 |
+
|
| 573 |
+
</p><ul>
|
| 574 |
+
<li>It seems this page is no longer kept up to date. There's a more up-to-date page of the
|
| 575 |
+
same tendancy here: <a>http://katynfiles.com/</a>
|
| 576 |
+
(and, before this, at <a>http://ru-katyn.livejournal.com/</a>
|
| 577 |
+
- but this page now instructs you to go to the previous one)</li>
|
| 578 |
+
</ul>
|
| 579 |
+
|
| 580 |
+
<p>"We Doubt That the Soviets Did It -- We Search for Truth" - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.katyn.ru/</a> </p>
|
| 581 |
+
|
| 582 |
+
<p>That'll keep you busy for awhile, even if you speed-read Russian! </p>
|
| 583 |
+
|
| 584 |
+
<p>Of these two sites, only the second one includes evidence and testimony supporting <u>both</u>
|
| 585 |
+
accounts. The first one includes only material that tends to support the theory of Soviet
|
| 586 |
+
guilt.</p>
|
| 587 |
+
|
| 588 |
+
<p>That is to say, only the site that questions Soviet guilt makes any pretense at
|
| 589 |
+
objectivity.</p>
|
| 590 |
+
|
| 591 |
+
<p>There are some interesting books, too, of BOTH schools. Again, if you want to know,
|
| 592 |
+
email me. I've got, and have read, all of 'em. </p>
|
| 593 |
+
|
| 594 |
+
<hr>
|
| 595 |
+
|
| 596 |
+
<p>I have been asked to get into this -- that is, to write about it. After all, it's a
|
| 597 |
+
'great mystery' -- right? </p>
|
| 598 |
+
|
| 599 |
+
<p>But I have refused, and am going to refuse forever. [<a href="#Breaking News: August 6, 2013">NOTE: see Breaking News" of August 6, 2013,
|
| 600 |
+
above]</a>. Here's why: NOBODY is really interested in the truth (almost, virtually no
|
| 601 |
+
one). </p>
|
| 602 |
+
|
| 603 |
+
<p>Therefore, you simply cannot have an intelligent, calm, academic conversation about
|
| 604 |
+
this. </p>
|
| 605 |
+
|
| 606 |
+
<p>No matter how objective you try to be, how long and hard you work, you will be called a
|
| 607 |
+
lousy, dishonest propagandist WHATEVER you conclude, by those whose preconceived opinions
|
| 608 |
+
you have failed to support. </p>
|
| 609 |
+
|
| 610 |
+
<p><em>April 2007 - This is exactly what Mr Romanov did! When I refused to just accept his
|
| 611 |
+
conclusions, he called me names and <a>put our whole
|
| 612 |
+
exchange on his "Holocaust Denial" page</a> even though (a) he had asked me my
|
| 613 |
+
permission to do this, and I refused him my permission; (b) I do not deny that <u>somebody</u>
|
| 614 |
+
killed the Polish officers; and (c) it isn't a "holocaust" anyway!</em></p>
|
| 615 |
+
|
| 616 |
+
<p>Of course, you'll also be <u>praised</u> -- by the others, whose preconceived
|
| 617 |
+
opinions you DO happen to support. </p>
|
| 618 |
+
|
| 619 |
+
<p>But who wants that kind of praise? Not me! </p>
|
| 620 |
+
|
| 621 |
+
<p>I am already called a dirty Stalin lover because I insist on evidence, not on bowing at
|
| 622 |
+
the shrine of dishonest anti-communist historians whose works are a disgrace to the
|
| 623 |
+
historical profession. </p>
|
| 624 |
+
|
| 625 |
+
<p>Well, I'm already in that soup, and have no choice but to swim in it! But I don't have
|
| 626 |
+
to jump into ANOTHER soup just as bad or worse! </p>
|
| 627 |
+
|
| 628 |
+
<p>IMO the evidence suggests that both the Soviets and, later, the Germans shot Polish
|
| 629 |
+
officers, for different reasons. This explanation has the advantage over others in that it
|
| 630 |
+
does not entail "dismissing" lots of the evidence we have, or
|
| 631 |
+
"assuming" the evidence against one side is true while that against the other
|
| 632 |
+
side is false.</p>
|
| 633 |
+
|
| 634 |
+
<p>Recently one of the scholars of the "Soviets-are-guilty" school wrote me to
|
| 635 |
+
convince me I'm wrong. We had an exchange, thanks to which I corrected an error on an
|
| 636 |
+
earlier version of this web page. Mr Romanov put that exchange on the Internet (without my
|
| 637 |
+
permission, by the way). If you want, <a>you can read it
|
| 638 |
+
here</a>.</p>
|
| 639 |
+
|
| 640 |
+
<hr>
|
| 641 |
+
|
| 642 |
+
<p>The anticommunist "Soviets-did-it" school make Katyn out to have been a great
|
| 643 |
+
crime. And so it was -- no matter who did it, Soviets, Nazis, or both. </p>
|
| 644 |
+
|
| 645 |
+
<p>So how about the Western Allies? Frankly, their atrocities are greater than those of
|
| 646 |
+
killing the Polish officers.</p>
|
| 647 |
+
|
| 648 |
+
<p><strong>The British fire-bombing of Dresden in February 1945 killed at least 25,000
|
| 649 |
+
civilian noncombatants!</strong></p>
|
| 650 |
+
|
| 651 |
+
<p><strong>And this was only one incident! "Overall, Anglo-American bombing of German
|
| 652 |
+
cities claimed between 305,000 and 600,000 civilian lives."</strong> (<a>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II</a>
|
| 653 |
+
)</p>
|
| 654 |
+
|
| 655 |
+
<p>These atrocities are not stressed enough. Why not? See below.</p>
|
| 656 |
+
|
| 657 |
+
<hr>
|
| 658 |
+
|
| 659 |
+
<h3>Polish Massacres of Russian POWs 1919-1920</h3>
|
| 660 |
+
|
| 661 |
+
<p>Finally, for now, there's the issue of the Polish "mistreatment" --
|
| 662 |
+
"murder" would be a better word -- of Russian POWs from the 1919-1920 war
|
| 663 |
+
against Polish aggression. </p>
|
| 664 |
+
|
| 665 |
+
<p>After Poland declared its independence from Russia in 1918, with the assent of the new
|
| 666 |
+
revolutionary Russian government (there was no USSR until 1923) a Polish army under the
|
| 667 |
+
command of Marshal Pilsudski and with Allied, mainly French generals, advising it, invaded
|
| 668 |
+
Russia. The battle lines went back and forth. Ultimately Lenin and the Bolsheviks had to
|
| 669 |
+
sign the Treaty of Riga in 1920, as they had had to sign the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in
|
| 670 |
+
1918 to stop the war with Germany. Under the Treaty of Riga Russia lost large parts of
|
| 671 |
+
Belorussia and Ukraine. There were relatively few Poles living in these areas. This was
|
| 672 |
+
Polish imperialism.</p>
|
| 673 |
+
|
| 674 |
+
<p>The official Russian study of Russian - Soviet losses in war during the 20th century is
|
| 675 |
+
the following book:</p>
|
| 676 |
+
|
| 677 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 678 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 679 |
+
<p><em>Rossiia i SSSR v Voinakh XX Veka. Poteri Vooruzhennykh Sil. Statisticheskoe
|
| 680 |
+
issledovanie</em>. Ed. G.F. Krivosheev. Moscow: "OLMA-PRESS", 2001.
|
| 681 |
+
("Russia and the USSR in the Wars of the 20th Century. Military Casualties. A
|
| 682 |
+
Statistical Inquiry.")</p>
|
| 683 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 684 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 685 |
+
|
| 686 |
+
<p>This is a very scholarly book, not in the least "pro-communist". It
|
| 687 |
+
calculates only <u>military</u> casualties. Civilian casualties, which were also immense,
|
| 688 |
+
are not included.</p>
|
| 689 |
+
|
| 690 |
+
<p>It's a good read! Russia's and the USSR's military casualties during the 20th century
|
| 691 |
+
are staggering! <a>This book is
|
| 692 |
+
available online </a>(in Russian of course). </p>
|
| 693 |
+
|
| 694 |
+
<p>According to this study, during the war against the Polish invasion
|
| 695 |
+
|
| 696 |
+
</p><ul>
|
| 697 |
+
<li>the number of Russian POWs and MIAs was 165,550. </li>
|
| 698 |
+
<li>The total who returned from Polish captivity in 1921 was 75,699. </li>
|
| 699 |
+
</ul>
|
| 700 |
+
|
| 701 |
+
<p><strong>So what happened to 89,851 Russian soldiers? </strong></p>
|
| 702 |
+
|
| 703 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 704 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 705 |
+
<p>(Parenthesis, February 2011: I just received the new edition of this book: Moscow:
|
| 706 |
+
Veche publishers, 2010. It contains a section devoted solely to the Russian-Polish
|
| 707 |
+
disagreements over the number of "Bolshevik" -- that's what the Poles called
|
| 708 |
+
them and still call them, not "Russian" -- POWs. The Russian figure of 165,500
|
| 709 |
+
POWs and MIAs remains, but there is no longer an estimate of the number repatriated. he
|
| 710 |
+
Polish position is summarized: still 80,000 - 85,000 "maximum" Russian POWS, and
|
| 711 |
+
65,797 repatriated, so 14,000 - 19,000 Russian POWs died. In short, nothing of substance
|
| 712 |
+
has changed since the first edition of 2001 and the journal articles cited below.)</p>
|
| 713 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 714 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 715 |
+
|
| 716 |
+
<p>No doubt some deserted to the Poles. Some escaped. Some died of wounds -- deaths that
|
| 717 |
+
can't be directly attributed to Polish criminal activity. </p>
|
| 718 |
+
|
| 719 |
+
<p>Here's a translation (mine) of <a>the
|
| 720 |
+
relevant portion of the book above</a>. It's in a footnote (number 246), by the way, not
|
| 721 |
+
"featured" as some kind of "horrible Polish crime" at all, though
|
| 722 |
+
that's what it is.</p>
|
| 723 |
+
|
| 724 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 725 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 726 |
+
<p>According to the best evidence, during the Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1920 the total
|
| 727 |
+
number of Soviet military personnel who were taken prisoner was 165,500 (see <em>Novaia i
|
| 728 |
+
Noveishaia Istoriia</em>, No. 3, 1995, p. 66). The exact number of Red Army soldiers and
|
| 729 |
+
officers who died in Polish captivity is as yet unknown. However the mortality was
|
| 730 |
+
extremely high, due to the inhuman conditions in which Soviet POWs were kept, the
|
| 731 |
+
barbarous treatment accorded them by the camp administration, which included shootings of
|
| 732 |
+
POWs at will.</p>
|
| 733 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 734 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 735 |
+
|
| 736 |
+
<p>M. I. Mel'tiukhov, a noted Russian political scientists, estimates that <strong>about
|
| 737 |
+
60,000 Red Army men died in Polish captivity between 1919 and 1921. </strong></p>
|
| 738 |
+
|
| 739 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 740 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 741 |
+
<p>� 耦驵脲龛�, 漕 耔� 镱� 礤 �耥� 镱蝈痂 耱铕铐 �
|
| 742 |
+
忸轫� 1919—1920 沣. 杨汶囫眍 镱朦耜桁 溧眄,
|
| 743 |
+
镱朦耜�� 囵扈� 蝾朦觐 � 囡疱�� 镱 铌��狃� 1920 �.
|
| 744 |
+
镱蝈��豚 184 246 麇腩忮�, 镳噔溧, � 赅觇� 镱蝈���
|
| 745 |
+
桎弪 疱鼽, 礤 篁铟��弪��{217}. 项蝈痂 署囫眍� 囵扈�
|
| 746 |
+
礤桤忮耱睇. 如忮耱眍 腓, 黩� 玎 怵屐� 忸轫�
|
| 747 |
+
镱朦耜桢 忸轳赅 忡�腓 � 镫屙 犷脲� 146 螓�.
|
| 748 |
+
麇腩忮�, 耦溴疰囗桢 觐蝾瘥� � 项朦 猁腩 铟屙�
|
| 749 |
+
溧脲觐 铗 赅觇�-腓犷 泱爨龛蜞痦 耱囗溧痱钼.
|
| 750 |
+
务钺 桤溴忄蝈朦耱忄� 镱溻屦汔腓顸 觐祆箜桉螓
|
| 751 |
+
桦� 玎镱漕琊屙睇� � 镳桧噤脲骓铖蜩 � 龛�, �
|
| 752 |
+
镫屙睇� 牮囫眍囵戾轹�-礤祧� 忸钺
|
| 753 |
+
疣耨蝠咫桠嚯桉� 磬 戾耱�. 皖 溧驽 � 镳铖螓�
|
| 754 |
+
镫屙睇� 玎鬣耱簋 耱囗钼桦桉� 驽痱忄扈 镳铊玮铍�
|
| 755 |
+
镱朦耜桴 忸屙睇� 怆囫蝈�. 罔痤觐 猁腩
|
| 756 |
+
疣耧痤耱疣礤眍 钽疣犭屙桢 镫屙睇�,
|
| 757 |
+
桤溴忄蝈朦耱忸 磬� 镫屙睇扈 驽睐桧囔�. 妈滂祛,
|
| 758 |
+
镱漕犴铄 铗眍龛� � 耦忮蝰觇� 忸屙眍镫屙睇�
|
| 759 |
+
�忤腩顸 � 珥圜栩咫铋 耱屣屙� 疱珞朦蜞蝾�
|
| 760 |
+
祉钽铍弪礤� 镳铒嚆囗潲 桧 蓄耨梃 镥疱�
|
| 761 |
+
项朦�. 埋� � 镳桠咫� � 蝾祗, 黩� 铌铍� 60 螓�.
|
| 762 |
+
耦忮蝰觇� 忸屙眍镫屙睇� 箪屦腓 � 镱朦耜桴
|
| 763 |
+
豚沐���. � 21 眍�狃� 1921 �. 桤 项朦 忮痦箅桉� 75 699
|
| 764 |
+
猁怿桴 忸屙眍镫屙睇� (932 麇腩忮赅 铗赅玎腓顸
|
| 765 |
+
忸玮疣螯��), � 桤 [104] 缅痨囗梃 — 40 986
|
| 766 |
+
桧蝈痦桊钼囗睇�. 项朦耜桴 镫屙睇� � 杨忮蝰觐�
|
| 767 |
+
蓄耨梃 猁腩 铌铍� 60 螓�. (忤滂祛, � 麒耠�
|
| 768 |
+
怅膻鬣弪 蜞赕� 沭噫溧眈觇� 镫屙睇�, 玎腩骓桕钼 �
|
| 769 |
+
桧蝈痦桊钼囗睇� 腓�) � 桴 耦溴疰囗桢 礤
|
| 770 |
+
镳羼脲漕忄腩 鲥腓 箜梓蝾骅螯 桦� 箜桤栩� 桴.
|
| 771 |
+
袜钺铕铗, 镱溧怆�邋 犷朦眈蜮� 镫屙睇�
|
| 772 |
+
疣耨爨蝠桠嚯铖� 赅� 疣螯� 镱 觌囫耋� �
|
| 773 |
+
赅觇�-腓犷 疱镳羼耔� � 铗眍龛� 龛� 猁腓 镳铖蝾
|
| 774 |
+
礤禧耠桁�. 项腓蜩麇耜�� 疣犷蜞 � 豚沐���
|
| 775 |
+
忸屙眍镫屙睇� 镳羼脲漕忄豚 鲥朦 疣玮栩� � 龛�
|
| 776 |
+
豚耨钼铄� 耦珥囗桢. 暑礤黜�, 礤朦�� 铗痂鲟螯,
|
| 777 |
+
黩� � 篑腩忤�� 犷邂 溴轳蜮栝 桁咫� 戾耱�
|
| 778 |
+
铗溴朦睇� 聆羼覃 � 铗眍龛� 镫屙睇�, 铖钺屙眍
|
| 779 |
+
铘桷屦钼, 眍 耦忮蝰觐� 觐爨礓钼囗桢 耱疱扈腩顸
|
| 780 |
+
镳羼尻囹� 桴 � 磬赅琨忄螯 忤眍忭. 袜
|
| 781 |
+
耦溴疰囗梃 镫屙睇� � 醒匝�, 徨珞耠钼眍,
|
| 782 |
+
耜噻嚯囫� 钺� 铐铎梓羼赅� 疣琊篚�. 项
|
| 783 |
+
铌铐鬣龛� 忸轫� � 项朦 忮痦箅铖� 27 598 猁怿桴
|
| 784 |
+
忸屙眍镫屙睇�, � 铌铍� 2 螓�. 铖蜞腩顸 � 醒匝衶218}.
|
| 785 |
+
[105]</p>
|
| 786 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 787 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 788 |
+
|
| 789 |
+
<p>Mel'tiukov's footnote [105] gives his sources: </p>
|
| 790 |
+
|
| 791 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 792 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 793 |
+
<p>{218}灭梏 皴牮弪眍耱� 耥��: 项蝈痂 骂铕箧屙睇�
|
| 794 |
+
谚� 蜒研 � 忸轫圊, 犷邂 溴轳蜮��� � 忸屙睇�
|
| 795 |
+
觐眙腓牝圊: 羊囹桉蜩麇耜铄 桉耠邃钼囗桢. �., 1993.
|
| 796 |
+
�. 34; 帖躞蜩磬 �.�. 亦� 耜铍� 驽 耦忮蝰觇�
|
| 797 |
+
忸屙眍镫屙睇� 镱汨犭� � 项朦 � 1919—1921 沣.?
|
| 798 |
+
{皖忄� � 眍忮轼�� 桉蝾痂�. 1995. � 3. �. 64—69;
|
| 799 |
+
暑耱觐 �. �. � 忸镳铖� � 镱朦耜桴 忸屙眍镫屙睇�
|
| 800 |
+
1920 泐溧{央噔�眍忮溴龛�. 2000. � 3. �. 42—62; 泥轫羼
|
| 801 |
+
�.�. 蓄耨�� — 项朦. 朽犷蜞 磬�
|
| 802 |
+
铠栳赅扈{湾玎忤耔爨� 汔珏蜞. 3 眍�狃� 2000 �.;
|
| 803 |
+
澡腓祛� �.�. 羼�蜿囔� 耱疱��� 膻溴� 蝾朦觐 玎
|
| 804 |
+
蝾, 黩�... 恹汶�溴腓 赅�
|
| 805 |
+
犷朦忤觇粄骂屙眍-桉蝾痂麇耜栝 骟痦嚯. 2001. � 2. �.
|
| 806 |
+
43—48.</p>
|
| 807 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 808 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 809 |
+
|
| 810 |
+
<p>As one might expect, <a>the official
|
| 811 |
+
Polish position </a>is both different and curiously similar:</p>
|
| 812 |
+
|
| 813 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 814 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 815 |
+
<p>According to the estimates of Polish historians, the number of Russian prisoners in
|
| 816 |
+
Polish camps in 1920 oscillated between 80 and 85 thousand, while the number of deaths
|
| 817 |
+
during the overall period the camps were active amounted to 16–17 thousand. Professor
|
| 818 |
+
Matvejev estimates that there were 18–20 thousand fatalities.</p>
|
| 819 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 820 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 821 |
+
|
| 822 |
+
<p>This study is in Russian too: <em>Krasnoarmeitsy v pol’skom plenu v 1919-1922 gg.
|
| 823 |
+
: sbornik dokumentov i materialov</em> (Moscow: Letnii Sad, 2004). </p>
|
| 824 |
+
|
| 825 |
+
<p>So the "official, scholarly" Russian and Polish positions are far apart.
|
| 826 |
+
|
| 827 |
+
</p><ul>
|
| 828 |
+
<li>165,000 Red Army POWs in Poland (Russian version) vs 80,000 - 85,000 (Polish).</li>
|
| 829 |
+
<li>In the Russian version, 75,699 Red Army men returned from Polish captivity. By the
|
| 830 |
+
Polish count, the maximum number that could have returned would be about 62,000.</li>
|
| 831 |
+
<li>In the Polish version, between 16,000 and 20,000 Red Army POWs died in Polish captivity;
|
| 832 |
+
in the Russian version, about 60,000 died.</li>
|
| 833 |
+
</ul>
|
| 834 |
+
|
| 835 |
+
<p>Research continues to be done on this subject, especially in Russia. Those who can read
|
| 836 |
+
Russian may keep up to date on it through <a>this Russian
|
| 837 |
+
Wikipedia page</a>, which has a good discussion, including full acknowledgement of the
|
| 838 |
+
very sharp disagreements between Polish and Russian researchers -- not only the
|
| 839 |
+
researchers named above, but others as well.. I'll add material here from time to time.</p>
|
| 840 |
+
|
| 841 |
+
<p>But the main point is clear. This has everything to do with the Katyn issue. <strong>A
|
| 842 |
+
good guess (mine, but others suggest it too) is that some of the Polish officers shot by
|
| 843 |
+
the Soviets -- yes, I think the evidence is that some were -- were implicated in the
|
| 844 |
+
Polish war crimes against Soviet POWs during 1919-1921. </strong></p>
|
| 845 |
+
|
| 846 |
+
<h3>Updates</h3>
|
| 847 |
+
|
| 848 |
+
<p>Meanwhile, there is more and more evidence emerging to complicate the Nazi - Polish
|
| 849 |
+
Nationalist - anticommunist version of Katyn:</p>
|
| 850 |
+
|
| 851 |
+
<p>* In 2004 <a>Il'ia
|
| 852 |
+
Ivanovich Krivoi, a Soviet veteran wrote an account</a> in which he claims to have seen
|
| 853 |
+
Polish POWs doing road work in the Katyn' area -- in June 1941. When the Nazi forces
|
| 854 |
+
invaded later that month the Russian veteran claimed that an NKVD lieutenant begged his
|
| 855 |
+
(Krivoi's) commander for railroad cars to evacuate the Polish prisoners but was refused,
|
| 856 |
+
since there were no cars available. Krivoi claimed to have sent the same account to
|
| 857 |
+
various media outlets during the 1990s and early 2000s without result.<br>
|
| 858 |
+
<br>
|
| 859 |
+
* In February 2010 a Russian historian claimed that he had interviewed an aged Lazar
|
| 860 |
+
Kaganovich about Katyn in 1985 and that Kaganovich told him that the Soviets did shoot
|
| 861 |
+
3200 Poles -- all of whom were guilty of capital crimes. See <a>"L.M. Kaganovich
|
| 862 |
+
on the Katyn' Affair"</a> (Russian only). </p>
|
| 863 |
+
|
| 864 |
+
<p>Other recent stories:</p>
|
| 865 |
+
|
| 866 |
+
<p>* In April 2010 former Russian President and current Prime Minister Vladimir Putin
|
| 867 |
+
publicly opined that the Poles who were shot by the Soviets "may have been" shot
|
| 868 |
+
in retaliation for the Soviet POWs murdered by Poland in 1920-21. (See my discussion
|
| 869 |
+
of this topic above). See <a>"Putin
|
| 870 |
+
concedes that Katyn' Might Have Been Stalin's Revenge for the Deaths in Poland of Soviet
|
| 871 |
+
POWs"</a> (in Russian only).</p>
|
| 872 |
+
|
| 873 |
+
<p>* In the aftermath of the death of the President of Poland and 92 others in a plane
|
| 874 |
+
crash at Smolensk the <em>New York Times</em> published <a>an account of Katyn by
|
| 875 |
+
Wiktor Osiatynski,</a> a professor at the Central European University that is <u>breathtaking
|
| 876 |
+
in its falsehood</u>. An full account of Osiatynski's fabrications would be too long, but
|
| 877 |
+
here is a glaring one. Osiatynski wrote:</p>
|
| 878 |
+
|
| 879 |
+
<p>"...Katyn forest, where Soviet troops executed nearly 22,000 Polish
|
| 880 |
+
officers in April 1940."</p>
|
| 881 |
+
|
| 882 |
+
<p>The much-disputed "Closed Packet No.1" documents Eltsin gave to
|
| 883 |
+
the Poles in 1992 speak not of 22,000, but of 8424 officers. All the rest were
|
| 884 |
+
</p>
|
| 885 |
+
|
| 886 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 887 |
+
<blockquote>
|
| 888 |
+
<p>"clerks, landlords, policemen, intelligence agents, military police,
|
| 889 |
+
immigrant settlers, prison guards, members of counter-revolutionary organizations engaged
|
| 890 |
+
in spying and sabotage, former landlords, manufacturers, FORMER Polish officers,
|
| 891 |
+
clerks, and those who had crossed the border." (From the official translation
|
| 892 |
+
published by the Polish government: Institute of Political Studies, Polish Academy of
|
| 893 |
+
Sciences. <em>Katyn. Documents of Genocide</em>... (Warsaw, 1993), p. 23).</p>
|
| 894 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 895 |
+
</blockquote>
|
| 896 |
+
|
| 897 |
+
<p>(Remember, this is one of the documents whose genuineness is questioned by
|
| 898 |
+
some.)</p>
|
| 899 |
+
|
| 900 |
+
<p>He makes other false statements that would be clear to anybody who knew
|
| 901 |
+
anything about Katyn. And Osiatynski claims to <u>care</u> about Katyn' -- he claims that
|
| 902 |
+
his father-in-law was killed there! </p>
|
| 903 |
+
|
| 904 |
+
<hr>
|
| 905 |
+
|
| 906 |
+
<p>So why do I raise the two cases above? Namely,
|
| 907 |
+
|
| 908 |
+
</p><ul>
|
| 909 |
+
<li>deaths of German civilians in Allied bombing raids, many of which had no military
|
| 910 |
+
purpose;</li>
|
| 911 |
+
<li>deaths of Soviet POWs at the hands of Poland during 1919-1921</li>
|
| 912 |
+
</ul>
|
| 913 |
+
|
| 914 |
+
<p>I do so to illustrate a point, and here it is: </p>
|
| 915 |
+
|
| 916 |
+
<p><u>There is very, very little attempt at objectivity in the study of Soviet history. </u>
|
| 917 |
+
|
| 918 |
+
</p><ol>
|
| 919 |
+
<li>There is a serious historical question about the Katyn killings, and killings of Polish
|
| 920 |
+
officers generally. There's good evidence that <strong>both</strong> the Soviets <strong>and</strong>,
|
| 921 |
+
later, the Germans, killed Polish officers, for very different reasons. <p>This serious --
|
| 922 |
+
and, by the way, very interesting -- historical controversy is simply ignored,
|
| 923 |
+
"denied", in the service of Polish nationalism and anticommunist indoctrination.</p>
|
| 924 |
+
</li>
|
| 925 |
+
<li>The Katyn Massacre is a matter of <strong>faith</strong> for the current right-wing
|
| 926 |
+
Polish government. It is virtually illegal to question it in Poland, just as it is <u>literally</u>
|
| 927 |
+
illegal to compare Polish killings of Jews with German killings of Jews. Just as, in
|
| 928 |
+
Ukraine, it is <u>literally</u> illegal to question the claim that the famine of 1932-33
|
| 929 |
+
was "man-made" by "Stalin", despite the fact that there is no evidence
|
| 930 |
+
-- zero! -- supporting that claim, and a lot of excellent research that thoroughly refutes
|
| 931 |
+
it.</li>
|
| 932 |
+
</ol>
|
| 933 |
+
|
| 934 |
+
<p>In short, if you think you know something about the "Katyn Massacre" -- or,
|
| 935 |
+
for that matter, about Soviet history during the Stalin period -- think again. You don't!</p>
|
| 936 |
+
|
| 937 |
+
<hr>
|
| 938 |
+
|
| 939 |
+
<p><strong><em>(NOTE August 5, 2013: Below is the note I had on this page for 7 years. Now
|
| 940 |
+
it is no longer true -- <a href="#Breaking News: August 6, 2013">I have published an
|
| 941 |
+
article about "Katyn" (see above).</a> I'm retaining this note for historical
|
| 942 |
+
purposes. - GF)</em></strong></p>
|
| 943 |
+
|
| 944 |
+
<p>So here is my last thought, for now: SO WHAT? </p>
|
| 945 |
+
|
| 946 |
+
<p>I'm serious. I do not think many people care about what really happened at Katyn', and
|
| 947 |
+
certainly the Polish Nationalists and anticommunists do not even WANT to know.</p>
|
| 948 |
+
|
| 949 |
+
<p>For the most part "the Katyn Massacre" is not an historical question -- it is
|
| 950 |
+
a WEAPON, a CUDGEL. You use it to make war on "the other side", and that's it. </p>
|
| 951 |
+
|
| 952 |
+
<p>Those who say "the Soviets did it" are NEVER going to accept that they did
|
| 953 |
+
not, no matter what the evidence. </p>
|
| 954 |
+
|
| 955 |
+
<p>Those who say and / or hope: "The Soviets did NOT do it" are NEVER going to
|
| 956 |
+
shed their respect and admiration for the USSR, EVEN IF you managed to convince them that
|
| 957 |
+
the Soviets did it. And I do not think that's going to happen either! </p>
|
| 958 |
+
|
| 959 |
+
<p>It's like convincing a Christian that Jesus never existed. That is, it's no longer
|
| 960 |
+
history, it's religion. </p>
|
| 961 |
+
|
| 962 |
+
<p>Good luck! </p>
|
| 963 |
+
|
| 964 |
+
<hr>
|
| 965 |
+
|
| 966 |
+
<p>So it is interesting. But at this point I confine myself to (a) reading about it; and
|
| 967 |
+
(b) reminding those who "know" (= are <u>sure</u> they know, and do not want to
|
| 968 |
+
hear otherwise) of their bad faith. </p>
|
| 969 |
+
|
| 970 |
+
<p>You can imagine how popular THAT makes me! But being unpopular in this way is something
|
| 971 |
+
I'm very content to be. </p>
|
| 972 |
+
|
| 973 |
+
<p>I hope this has been interesting, maybe even helpful. Believe me, there is so much more
|
| 974 |
+
to say that you do not even want to know! </p>
|
| 975 |
+
|
| 976 |
+
<p>Sincerely, </p>
|
| 977 |
+
|
| 978 |
+
<p>Grover Furr<br>
|
| 979 |
+
Montclair State University<br>
|
| 980 |
+
Montclair NJ 07043<br>
|
| 981 |
+
USA</p>
|
| 982 |
+
|
| 983 |
+
<hr>
|
| 984 |
+
|
| 985 |
+
<p>[* <strong>NOTE</strong>: My thanks to Sergei Romanov, who pointed out some errors in
|
| 986 |
+
an earlier version of this page. </p>
|
| 987 |
+
|
| 988 |
+
<p>Mr Romanov strongly supports the "Soviets-did-it" theory and asserts that the
|
| 989 |
+
"Eltsin" documents first published in 1992 are genuine. I don't agree! And it's
|
| 990 |
+
impossible to discuss anything with Mr Romanov because he is so abusive. If you disagree
|
| 991 |
+
with him, you are either stupid or a liar -- so he says!</p>
|
| 992 |
+
|
| 993 |
+
<p>But his is the most widely held view. Furthermore, he has done the only study I know of
|
| 994 |
+
that attempts to disprove the arguments of those who contend the documents are forgeries.
|
| 995 |
+
Let's hope he continues his work by responding to the latest of these studies, Iuri
|
| 996 |
+
Mukhin's <em>Antirossiiskaia Podlost'.</em> - GF]</p>
|
| 997 |
+
|
| 998 |
+
<hr>
|
| 999 |
+
|
| 1000 |
+
<h2><a name="Latest developments in the "Katyn' Affair"">Latest
|
| 1001 |
+
developments in the "Katyn' Affair"</a></h2>
|
| 1002 |
+
|
| 1003 |
+
<p><strong>July 7 2010</strong>: I<a>liukhin
|
| 1004 |
+
interviewed in <em>Literaturnaia Gazeta</em>.</a> (Russian only)</p>
|
| 1005 |
+
|
| 1006 |
+
<p>"Lgz" is the most prestigious intellectual journal in Russia.
|
| 1007 |
+
It's normally pretty conservative too. So the appearance of this friendly interview
|
| 1008 |
+
suggests, in my opinion, some degree of official toleration, at least, for Iliukhin's
|
| 1009 |
+
allegations. </p>
|
| 1010 |
+
|
| 1011 |
+
<p><strong>The year 2010 has been full of dramatic developments tending to
|
| 1012 |
+
support the contention that the "smoking gun" documents were forged and the
|
| 1013 |
+
Soviets did not shoot most of the Poles (POWs and others). </strong></p>
|
| 1014 |
+
|
| 1015 |
+
<p><strong>Here is a summary of these developments. I take no side here: just
|
| 1016 |
+
be informed. </strong></p>
|
| 1017 |
+
|
| 1018 |
+
<p><strong>Many thanks to Sven-Eric Holmstr鰉, who translated these from a
|
| 1019 |
+
Swedish discussion list.</strong></p>
|
| 1020 |
+
|
| 1021 |
+
<p><strong>July 14 2010: </strong>You can now follow two blogs written by
|
| 1022 |
+
Sven-Eric, <em>inter alios</em>, that (a) give latest developments; and (b) summarize the
|
| 1023 |
+
arguments made by some Russian students of the Katyn' issue that the so-called
|
| 1024 |
+
"smoking gun" documents are forgeries. These blogs are <a>HERE</a> and <a>HERE.</a> They appear to contain the same
|
| 1025 |
+
materials.</p>
|
| 1026 |
+
|
| 1027 |
+
<p><strong>If you want to first read my review of the "Katyn Massacre
|
| 1028 |
+
Question" prior to February 2010, go to the top of the page <a href="#The Katyn Forest Whodunnit">here.</a></strong></p>
|
| 1029 |
+
<div>
|
| 1030 |
+
|
| 1031 |
+
<table>
|
| 1032 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 1033 |
+
<td><h3>Lazar Kaganovich interviewed concerning Katyn on
|
| 1034 |
+
November 6 1985 by A.N. Kolesnik</h3>
|
| 1035 |
+
<p>(February 18 2010. For Russian original see <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=Pages&in=view&id=936</a>
|
| 1036 |
+
)</p>
|
| 1037 |
+
<p>The well known Russian military historian, doctor in history of science, A. N. Kolesnik
|
| 1038 |
+
has to the editorial staff of "The truth about Katyn" forwarded extracts of
|
| 1039 |
+
stenograph from his personal conversations with the former member of the Politburo of the
|
| 1040 |
+
Communist Party, L. M. Kaganovich. </p>
|
| 1041 |
+
<p>Altogether A.N. Kolesnik conducted six conversations with L. M. Kaganovich between 1985
|
| 1042 |
+
and 1991 around different historical subjects. Out of censorship reasons it is not
|
| 1043 |
+
possible to release the stenographs from these conversations without considerable cuts and
|
| 1044 |
+
edits, not even in small parts, since the direct speech from Kaganovich is full of ugly
|
| 1045 |
+
words and swearing which characterizes his attitude to the leadership of Hitlerite
|
| 1046 |
+
Germany, to the leading circles of bourgeois Poland and to the leaders of the
|
| 1047 |
+
"Gorbachovite" perestroika, and in particular in person to A. N. Yakovlev. </p>
|
| 1048 |
+
<p>The dates for A. N. Kolesnik's conversations with L. M. Kaganovich and their duration
|
| 1049 |
+
are documented by the employees of the KGB who guarded the stairwell where L. M.
|
| 1050 |
+
Kaganovich were living. If necessary the dates and the duration of the conversations can
|
| 1051 |
+
be established more thoroughly with the help of archival information, since the guards
|
| 1052 |
+
were obligated to register all the visitors in a special logbook. Apart from that all the
|
| 1053 |
+
visitors were photographed with a special camera which automatically fixed the date and
|
| 1054 |
+
the time for the film shooting. </p>
|
| 1055 |
+
<p>The conversation about the Katyn issue, during which L. M. Kaganovich for the first
|
| 1056 |
+
time announced the information of the exact amount of citizens from former Poland that had
|
| 1057 |
+
really been executed on Soviet territory between November 1939 and July 1941, took place
|
| 1058 |
+
on November 6, 1985 in Moscow in L. M. Kaganovich's apartment which was located at
|
| 1059 |
+
Frunzenskaya naberezhnaya, house 50 and lasted for 2 hours and 40 minutes, from 6.40 pm to
|
| 1060 |
+
9.20 pm. Present at this conversation was also Lazar Moiseyevich's daughter Maya
|
| 1061 |
+
Lazarevna, who stenographed everything that was said. </p>
|
| 1062 |
+
<p>Later it turned out that the conversation also had been recorded with the help of
|
| 1063 |
+
special technical equipment by the employees of the KGB who in silence conducted
|
| 1064 |
+
reconnaissance of L. M. Kaganovich. That became obvious, when A. N. Kolesnik was called by
|
| 1065 |
+
the operative KGB employee Captain Ryazanov, who in a categorical form demanded that the
|
| 1066 |
+
content of the completed conversation could not be made public. </p>
|
| 1067 |
+
<p>During the conversation on November 6, 1985, L. M. Kaganovich said that during the
|
| 1068 |
+
spring of 1940 the Soviet leadership was forced to make a very difficult decision to
|
| 1069 |
+
execute 3 196 criminals among those who were citizens of former Poland, but L. M.
|
| 1070 |
+
Kaganovich said that it was absolutely necessary in the then prevailing political
|
| 1071 |
+
situation. According to Kaganovich's testimony, they had essentially sentenced to
|
| 1072 |
+
execution Polish criminals who had been involved in the mass extermination of captured
|
| 1073 |
+
Russian Red Guards 1920-1921, and employees of Polish punishment bodies who had
|
| 1074 |
+
compromised themselves with crimes committed against the USSR and the Polish working class
|
| 1075 |
+
during the 1920s and 1930s. Apart from them they had also executed criminals among the
|
| 1076 |
+
Polish POWs who had committed serious general crimes on Soviet territory after their
|
| 1077 |
+
internment in September-October 1939 – gang rapes, criminal assaults, murders and so
|
| 1078 |
+
on (L. M. Kaganovich said literally: " …the fuckers, the bandits and the
|
| 1079 |
+
murderers …"). </p>
|
| 1080 |
+
<p>Apart from Kaganovich, the former chairman of the Peoples Council of Commissars V. M.
|
| 1081 |
+
Molotov in a telephone conversation in 1986 estimated that the amount of executed citizens
|
| 1082 |
+
of former Poland 1939-1941 amounted to "about 3 000 people". </p>
|
| 1083 |
+
<p>The exact figure "3 196" Polish citizens who had been executed in the USSR in
|
| 1084 |
+
1939-1941 was also decidedly confirmed by the former Soviet People's Commissar for the
|
| 1085 |
+
Construction Industry, S. Z. Ginzburg, in a private conversation with A. N. Kolesnik. </p>
|
| 1086 |
+
<p>S. Z. Ginzburg told A. N. Kolesnik little-known details of the Soviet excavation works
|
| 1087 |
+
in the Katyn forest. According to him the excavations of the graves with the Polish
|
| 1088 |
+
citizens were conducted in 1944 not only in Kozi Gory but also in at least two other
|
| 1089 |
+
places west of Smolensk. The excavations and the exhumations were conducted with the help
|
| 1090 |
+
of special construction- and assembly units, so-called OSMCh (in Russian osobye
|
| 1091 |
+
stroitelno-montazhnye chasti), which were under S. Z. Ginzburg's operational management.
|
| 1092 |
+
Because of the period of time that had elapsed S. Z. Ginzburg could not remember the exact
|
| 1093 |
+
number of this OSMCh unit, but said that the unit in question had been formed shortly
|
| 1094 |
+
after the beginning of the war on the basis of one of the civilian building boards and
|
| 1095 |
+
that their staff in 1944 amounted to about 200 people. After the exhumation works they
|
| 1096 |
+
distributed to all the conscripts of the unit – at S. Z. Ginzburg's request –
|
| 1097 |
+
one kilogram of chocolate as some kind of bonus. </p>
|
| 1098 |
+
<p>A. N. Yakovlev, member of the Politburo of the Central Committee, started to earnestly
|
| 1099 |
+
interest himself in the contents of the conversations between A. N. Kolesnik and L. M.
|
| 1100 |
+
Kaganovich, and also showed great concern regarding a possible publication of Kaganovich's
|
| 1101 |
+
testimony about the Katyn issue. At the end of 1989, right before his appearance in front
|
| 1102 |
+
of the 2nd Congress of People's Deputies, A. N. Yakovlev turned, through A. N. Kolesnik,
|
| 1103 |
+
over a list of tendentiously selected questions about the Katyn issue with the suggestion
|
| 1104 |
+
of recording his answers at a tape recorder. The idea was to prepare Kaganovich's answers
|
| 1105 |
+
in a proper way and confirm the version of the Soviet guilt in the Katyn massacre by his
|
| 1106 |
+
authoritative testimony. (Kaganovich said literally: "Tell this son of a bitch that I
|
| 1107 |
+
have had them spinning around my dick! I am from the family of a common meat pundit, but
|
| 1108 |
+
have been a member of the Central Committee and a minister, while they want us to fall
|
| 1109 |
+
back to 1914. The thing they have invented about Katyn – that will bounce back at
|
| 1110 |
+
them with bloody tears. They want us again to end up in a conflict with Europe. Because
|
| 1111 |
+
during the last war we indeed not only fought Hitler but with most other European
|
| 1112 |
+
countries!" </p>
|
| 1113 |
+
<p>The perspective of a publication of the exact amount of Polish citizens that were
|
| 1114 |
+
executed in 1939-41 (3 196 people) and the true reasons for the executions, induced an
|
| 1115 |
+
extreme nervousness of Yakovlev and his surroundings. In exchange that A. N. Kolesnik
|
| 1116 |
+
should keep quiet about the information around the Katyn issue that he had received from
|
| 1117 |
+
L. M. Kaganovich, A. N. Yakovlev suggested that he could choose between six different
|
| 1118 |
+
senior posts. </p>
|
| 1119 |
+
<p>When A. N. Kolesnik declined that offer, they arranged on directives from A. N.
|
| 1120 |
+
Yakovlev and D. A. Volkogonov a meeting between him and a representative for
|
| 1121 |
+
"competent bodies" who conducted a "preventive talk" with him in V. M.
|
| 1122 |
+
Falin's (the head of the news agency APN) office. During the conversation threats were
|
| 1123 |
+
made to "bring him in on a long time", if A. N. Kolesnik would go public on the
|
| 1124 |
+
facts about the Katyn issue that L. M. Kaganovich had told him. </p>
|
| 1125 |
+
<p>When it became apparent that this measure had no effect, they brought prosecution on A.
|
| 1126 |
+
N. Kolesnik which ended with him being dismissed from the Military History Institute in
|
| 1127 |
+
1993.</p></td>
|
| 1128 |
+
</tr>
|
| 1129 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 1130 |
+
</div>
|
| 1131 |
+
|
| 1132 |
+
<p> </p>
|
| 1133 |
+
<div>
|
| 1134 |
+
|
| 1135 |
+
<table>
|
| 1136 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 1137 |
+
<td><h3><em>Kommersant-Ogoniok </em>Attacks Iliukhin's
|
| 1138 |
+
Allegations</h3>
|
| 1139 |
+
<p>(June 21 2010. For Russian original of <em>Kommersant</em>'s article by
|
| 1140 |
+
Viktor Tikhomirov go here: <a>http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1387089</a>
|
| 1141 |
+
This is an explicitly anticommunist, ideological attack -- which does not say
|
| 1142 |
+
anything about its factual truth or falsehood but reflects the essentially political,
|
| 1143 |
+
rather than academic historical, nature of the whole Katyn issue. - GF)</p>
|
| 1144 |
+
<p>The reaction from the Russian government regarding Ilyukhin's revelations has been more
|
| 1145 |
+
or less complete silence - both from the government itself and from mainstream media. </p>
|
| 1146 |
+
<p>However, the silence was broken on June 21, 2010, by an article in the newspaper
|
| 1147 |
+
"Kommersant". </p>
|
| 1148 |
+
<p>The keynote in the article is mockingly against Viktor Ilyukhin. They call the whole
|
| 1149 |
+
thing a "desperate communist comeback attempt", they mark words (among other
|
| 1150 |
+
things Ilyukhin has said that the name of the village is "Nagornyj" instead of
|
| 1151 |
+
"Nagornoye"), and some other small bleed. They are almost on the verge of
|
| 1152 |
+
implying that Ilyukhin himself is behind the forgery of the documents that the anonymous
|
| 1153 |
+
informant has turned over to him and is now hiding behind convenient excuses. Furthermore
|
| 1154 |
+
it is said that "the forgery news" is not a coincident but has a direct
|
| 1155 |
+
connection with Rosarkhiv's publication of the Katyn folder at their own web site about
|
| 1156 |
+
one and a half month ago (April 28). </p>
|
| 1157 |
+
<p>In the article appeared also the former head of the archives Rudolf Pichoya (one of
|
| 1158 |
+
those who is actually depicted by the anonymous informant) and he strikes back at
|
| 1159 |
+
everything that Ilyukhin has claimed. Among other things Pichoya said that this is an
|
| 1160 |
+
attempt to confuse the brains of young people, and also that forgeries in the archives are
|
| 1161 |
+
totally impossible. He states, probable quite seriously, that no forgery attempts have
|
| 1162 |
+
been made in the archives for three centuries! He ends his debate appearance by calling
|
| 1163 |
+
Ilyukhin's behavior as hooliganish and amateurish. </p>
|
| 1164 |
+
<p>The article is concluded by a box with all the claimed strange affairs that Ilyukhin is
|
| 1165 |
+
supposed to have been involved in – if you want some kind of discredit box. </p>
|
| 1166 |
+
<p>On the whole, this lunge on part of Pichoya, who is one of the main suspects and
|
| 1167 |
+
depicted in this case, is a little bit odd if you look at his reaction. It is strange that
|
| 1168 |
+
he does not react stronger than he actually does and take this matter to court as some
|
| 1169 |
+
kind of libel. If he has nothing to hide he should easily get a winning sentence against
|
| 1170 |
+
Ilyukhin for dissemination of slander. But no, Pichoya chooses to only mock Ilyukhin with
|
| 1171 |
+
a few sentences in a newspaper. </p>
|
| 1172 |
+
<p>The last word in this matter is not said for sure.</p></td>
|
| 1173 |
+
</tr>
|
| 1174 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 1175 |
+
</div>
|
| 1176 |
+
|
| 1177 |
+
<p> </p>
|
| 1178 |
+
<div>
|
| 1179 |
+
|
| 1180 |
+
<table>
|
| 1181 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 1182 |
+
<td><h3>Typewriter Expert Concludes Two Different Typewriters
|
| 1183 |
+
Used To Compose "Beria Letter"</h3>
|
| 1184 |
+
<p>(April 28 2010. For Russian original go to <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=195</a>
|
| 1185 |
+
. A facsimile of the Molokov report itself is at <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=Pages&in=view&id=946</a>
|
| 1186 |
+
)</p>
|
| 1187 |
+
<p>On March 31, 2009, Sergey Strygin (Russia's leading Katyn-expert) turned to a licensed
|
| 1188 |
+
forensic expert, Eduard Petrovich Molokov who has an expert diploma and who is entitled to
|
| 1189 |
+
conduct such investigations. The diploma was issued in 1973 by the MVD (i.e. the Ministry
|
| 1190 |
+
of Interior of the USSR). </p>
|
| 1191 |
+
<p>He looked at the "Beria letter" (which consists of four pages) and found that
|
| 1192 |
+
pages 1, 2 and 3 are written on a different typewriter than page 4. He has among other
|
| 1193 |
+
things examined the letters� distance from each other, their altitudinal and the clarity
|
| 1194 |
+
of the printing ink. His conclusion is that the pages 1, 2 and 3 are consistently equal.
|
| 1195 |
+
But page 4 (the one with Beria's signature) differs from the first three pages. </p>
|
| 1196 |
+
<p>It should be added that the typewriter which was used to print page 4 has a font that
|
| 1197 |
+
is known to have been on one of the typewriters in Beria's office, while the font from the
|
| 1198 |
+
typewriter that wrote pages 1-3 is unknown (it has not been found in any of the documents
|
| 1199 |
+
sent by Beria). </p>
|
| 1200 |
+
<p>There is one other important detail. Molokov had only access to high definition digital
|
| 1201 |
+
copies that Strygin was allowed to do in the Russian archives some years ago. This means
|
| 1202 |
+
that Molokov did not have access to the physical letter, which means that such things as
|
| 1203 |
+
the age of the paper have not been possible to examine.</p></td>
|
| 1204 |
+
</tr>
|
| 1205 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 1206 |
+
</div>
|
| 1207 |
+
|
| 1208 |
+
<p> </p>
|
| 1209 |
+
<div>
|
| 1210 |
+
|
| 1211 |
+
<table>
|
| 1212 |
+
<tbody><tr>
|
| 1213 |
+
<td><h3>(June 1-16 2010: Alleged forger of Katyn'
|
| 1214 |
+
"Smoking Gun" documents reports to Duma member!</h3>
|
| 1215 |
+
<p><strong>Here is a five-part summary of these important developments by Swedish
|
| 1216 |
+
researcher Sven-Eric Holmstr鰉. I was going to write something about this here, but
|
| 1217 |
+
Sven-Eric's summary is excellent. I post it here with his permission. </strong></p>
|
| 1218 |
+
<p><strong>What do I think? There's nothing incredible here. It has been long suspected by
|
| 1219 |
+
some; some fake documents on other matters have certainly been inserted into the Russian
|
| 1220 |
+
archives; and there are clearly suspicious markings on some of these "smoking
|
| 1221 |
+
gun" Katyn documents. NONE of this is ever discussed in the West.</strong></p>
|
| 1222 |
+
<p><strong>What's more interesting is the <u>cover-up</u>. Even the Russian
|
| 1223 |
+
"mainstream" press has completely ignored this story. Nothing at all has
|
| 1224 |
+
appeared in the West ("of course not", I'd say), not even a mocking dismissal.</strong></p>
|
| 1225 |
+
<p><strong>So it may, or may not, be true. But it's going to be very hard to prove it
|
| 1226 |
+
false! Stay tuned! (Grover)</strong></p>
|
| 1227 |
+
<p>Russian originals of articles on Iliukhin's claim so far: <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=196</a>
|
| 1228 |
+
; <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=198</a>
|
| 1229 |
+
(this is a video of an interview of Iliukhin); text of the interview <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=199</a>
|
| 1230 |
+
; Iliukhin's presentation to a plenary session of the State Duma on June 16 2010 <a>http://www.katyn.ru/index.php?go=News&in=view&id=201</a>
|
| 1231 |
+
)</p>
|
| 1232 |
+
<p>Part I<br>
|
| 1233 |
+
<br>
|
| 1234 |
+
On May 25, 2010, an anonymous person called the member of the Russian Duma, Viktor
|
| 1235 |
+
Ilyukhin, and said that he had some things to say regarding certain things having to do
|
| 1236 |
+
with the murder of the Polish officers at Katyn. Ilyukhin met this person already the same
|
| 1237 |
+
day and during this meeting he revealed his name and said that he had been directly
|
| 1238 |
+
involved in the falsification of archival documents including the Katyn documents. Among
|
| 1239 |
+
other things "Beria's letter No. 794/B" and "Shelepin's letter" from
|
| 1240 |
+
1959 has been falsified by him and his group.<br>
|
| 1241 |
+
<br>
|
| 1242 |
+
This group was specially set up during the Yeltsin era and worked in the early 1990s in
|
| 1243 |
+
the village of Nagornoye (they were staying at a dacha which had been previously been used
|
| 1244 |
+
by members of the Central Committee of the Communist Party). The group was well paid and
|
| 1245 |
+
was provided with various kinds of products. They had at their disposal a set of old
|
| 1246 |
+
Soviet forms and stamps.<br>
|
| 1247 |
+
<br>
|
| 1248 |
+
The anonymous informant (the name is not revealed at this moment out of security reasons)
|
| 1249 |
+
told how the falsifications happened. They even falsified the signatures of the earlier
|
| 1250 |
+
Soviet leaders. They have also falsified the act of abdication of Nikolay II. This group's
|
| 1251 |
+
work went on until 1996, when they moved from Nagornoye to the village Zaretye.<br>
|
| 1252 |
+
<br>
|
| 1253 |
+
Persons involved in this group was Colonel Klimov (who was directly involved in the
|
| 1254 |
+
falsification of the "Shelepin letter"), the head of the Russian archive Rudolf
|
| 1255 |
+
Pichoya, Yeltsin closest collaborator M. Poltoranin, and premier deputy security chief for
|
| 1256 |
+
the Russian president G. Rogozin. Rudolf Pichoya was, by the way, the individual that on
|
| 1257 |
+
the assignment of Yeltsin handed over documents from the "closed package no. 1"
|
| 1258 |
+
(the so-called Katyn folder) to Lech Walesa in Warsaw on October 14, 1992.<br>
|
| 1259 |
+
<br>
|
| 1260 |
+
The informant also said that as far as he knows, even employees at the 6th Institute of
|
| 1261 |
+
the Russian General Staff (with Molchanov as head) worked in a similar way. <br>
|
| 1262 |
+
<br>
|
| 1263 |
+
According to the information hundreds of documents dealing with important moments of
|
| 1264 |
+
Soviet history were falsified. They have also distorted the content in other documents. To
|
| 1265 |
+
support his allegation he presented a number of forms from the 1940s, false stamps, stamp
|
| 1266 |
+
markings on paper and other things. He promised to deliver more material.<br>
|
| 1267 |
+
<br>
|
| 1268 |
+
Viktor Ilyukhin have now sent two letters (May 26 and 28) about this to the KPRF leader
|
| 1269 |
+
Gennadiy Zyuganov with a request to continue the investigation and that more scientists
|
| 1270 |
+
and scholars should be involved in this.</p>
|
| 1271 |
+
<p>Part II<br>
|
| 1272 |
+
<br>
|
| 1273 |
+
On June 3, 2010, a video was released where Viktor Ilyukhin reveals orally what has
|
| 1274 |
+
happened.<br>
|
| 1275 |
+
<br>
|
| 1276 |
+
In the video he is mentioning the latest information that he has received from the
|
| 1277 |
+
anonymous informant. He is showing some empty forms (among others a similar one which was
|
| 1278 |
+
done for "the Beria transcription", he shows all the stamps which according to
|
| 1279 |
+
the informant is false. <br>
|
| 1280 |
+
<br>
|
| 1281 |
+
Ilyukhin also talks about the 202 page document concerning Stalin's correspondence and
|
| 1282 |
+
reports to him from 1941. The purpose with this forgery in particular was to insert as
|
| 1283 |
+
much information as possible in the documents that would show that the Soviet intelligence
|
| 1284 |
+
perfectly knew about the coming war already during spring 1941 and that Stalin was warned
|
| 1285 |
+
but that he despite of that ignored all warnings.<br>
|
| 1286 |
+
<br>
|
| 1287 |
+
The informant said that he could no longer in calmness follow the events and see what the
|
| 1288 |
+
falsifications led to. He also said that he feels an ironic reaction every time he notices
|
| 1289 |
+
that they mentioning documents that his group has forged. The man also says that it was
|
| 1290 |
+
him who singlehandedly put Beria's signature in "Beria's letter No. 794/B". At
|
| 1291 |
+
the same time Stalin's, Voroshilov's, Molotov's and Mikoyan's signatures were put in the
|
| 1292 |
+
same letter.<br>
|
| 1293 |
+
<br>
|
| 1294 |
+
The man has said that Colonel Klimov was the one who singlehandedly executed the
|
| 1295 |
+
"Shelepin letter" to Krushchev "from 1959". It shouldn't be difficult
|
| 1296 |
+
to compare that letter with other letters that Klimov has written to compare his
|
| 1297 |
+
handwriting and make an expert study of it. According to the video some falsification
|
| 1298 |
+
orders came directly from the head of the archive Rudolf Pichoya. All the falsified
|
| 1299 |
+
documents concerns the 1930s and 1940s, i.e. only the Soviet epoch.<br>
|
| 1300 |
+
<br>
|
| 1301 |
+
In the video it is said that the falsifiers worked in the village of Nagornoye between
|
| 1302 |
+
1991 and 1996 and then moved to a place not far from there. The informant does not exclude
|
| 1303 |
+
the possibility that the group can still be working. This group has produced hundred and
|
| 1304 |
+
thousands of pages of falsified documents which have been put into circulation.<br>
|
| 1305 |
+
<br>
|
| 1306 |
+
Ilyukhin finishes by saying: "There is really no credence left for the Russian
|
| 1307 |
+
archives."<br>
|
| 1308 |
+
</p>
|
| 1309 |
+
<p>Part III<br>
|
| 1310 |
+
<br>
|
| 1311 |
+
On June 16, 2010, Ilyukhin appeared in the Duma about these new revelations.<br>
|
| 1312 |
+
<br>
|
| 1313 |
+
He says that the KPRF (Russian Communist Party) has information of such forgeries that
|
| 1314 |
+
needs to be thoroughly controlled by a parliamentary investigation. The purpose with the
|
| 1315 |
+
forgeries during the 1990s must have been to equate Stalinism with fascism. <br>
|
| 1316 |
+
<br>
|
| 1317 |
+
Ilyukhin repeated his information that also people at the 6th department of the armed
|
| 1318 |
+
forces General Staff has been involved in these falsification activities. This group's
|
| 1319 |
+
activity coincided in time when a government commission under the leadership of Mikhail
|
| 1320 |
+
Poltoranin were involved in declassify documents from the Politburo and the Central
|
| 1321 |
+
Committee of the Communist Party.<br>
|
| 1322 |
+
<br>
|
| 1323 |
+
They have reached the conclusion that Lenin's so-called "will" is a forged
|
| 1324 |
+
document. Other forgeries are certain documents which have to do with the abdication of
|
| 1325 |
+
Nikolay II and that Stalin is supposed to have been an agent of the Tsarist secret police
|
| 1326 |
+
(ochrana), and other documents.<br>
|
| 1327 |
+
<br>
|
| 1328 |
+
Ilyukhin says that today it is possible to state that "Beria's letter" of March
|
| 1329 |
+
5, 1940, is falsified. He showed an expert opinion from the lectern. Also the
|
| 1330 |
+
transcription from the Politburo decision is falsified, where permission is given to
|
| 1331 |
+
execute all these Poles.<br>
|
| 1332 |
+
He also shows an expert opinion that the document of the claimed co-operation between the
|
| 1333 |
+
NKVD and the Gestapo is also falsified.<br>
|
| 1334 |
+
Ilyukhin expressed great concern that so many documents obviously has been forged, since
|
| 1335 |
+
it gives the scholars en wrongful image of events that has taken place not so very long
|
| 1336 |
+
ago "in our own history", as he puts it.<br>
|
| 1337 |
+
<br>
|
| 1338 |
+
He says that he may have restrained himself from similar statements of large scale
|
| 1339 |
+
falsifications if it not had been supported by the fact that Dimitry Volkogonov turned
|
| 1340 |
+
over tens and hundreds of top secret documents to the US Congress Library in the 1990s.
|
| 1341 |
+
The Russian archival documents "is indeed wandering freely all over Europe" as
|
| 1342 |
+
Ilyukhin put it.<br>
|
| 1343 |
+
<br>
|
| 1344 |
+
He mentioned the false stamps that he has in his possession, including stamps of Stalin's
|
| 1345 |
+
and Beria's signatures, and that there is empty forms from the 1930s and 1940s on which
|
| 1346 |
+
they have made such documents.<br>
|
| 1347 |
+
<br>
|
| 1348 |
+
He also mentioned "special case no. 29" from 1941. Some of these documents have
|
| 1349 |
+
unfortunately already been legalized, he says. The folder contains inscriptions
|
| 1350 |
+
"stored forever" and "not subject for de-classification", but
|
| 1351 |
+
nevertheless these documents are outside the archives.<br>
|
| 1352 |
+
<br>
|
| 1353 |
+
Recently Sergey Mironenko, manager at the Russian State Archive, has said that such things
|
| 1354 |
+
could never have happened and that Ilyukhin is spreading pure fantasies. Ilyukhin says
|
| 1355 |
+
that he is prepared to resign as a member of the Duma if Mironenko can prove that these
|
| 1356 |
+
documents have nothing to do with events from the 1930s and 1940s. If Mironenko fails in
|
| 1357 |
+
doing that, he should himself leave his post.<br>
|
| 1358 |
+
<br>
|
| 1359 |
+
Ilyukhin put forward the question about the necessity to conduct a new parliamentary
|
| 1360 |
+
investigation regarding the massacre of the Polish POWs at Kozi Gory outside Smolensk and
|
| 1361 |
+
about the falsification of other historical documents.<br>
|
| 1362 |
+
<br>
|
| 1363 |
+
In the near future they will suggest a legislative change in the Russian legislation which
|
| 1364 |
+
will fill a hole, namely that it should be considered a crime to falsify documents of
|
| 1365 |
+
great historical importance.<br>
|
| 1366 |
+
<br>
|
| 1367 |
+
Ilyukhin says that it is wrong to believe that all of this has to do with the past. It has
|
| 1368 |
+
everything to do with our present time, he concludes.</p>
|
| 1369 |
+
<p>Part IV<br>
|
| 1370 |
+
<br>
|
| 1371 |
+
The KPRF held a press conference on this subject on June 18, 2010.<br>
|
| 1372 |
+
<br>
|
| 1373 |
+
Yuri Mukhin reports on his website about the press conference. He says that what all the
|
| 1374 |
+
gathered people were most interested in was the question of who it was that had come to
|
| 1375 |
+
Viktor Ilyukhin and confessed. Ilyukhin clarified that this person is in a real danger.
|
| 1376 |
+
Mukhin talked briefly to Ilyukhin after the press conference, when Ilyukhin were on his
|
| 1377 |
+
way to another place. The following then transpired: <br>
|
| 1378 |
+
<br>
|
| 1379 |
+
1. The anonymous person (A.) really fears for his life and is concealing himself because
|
| 1380 |
+
of that.<br>
|
| 1381 |
+
2. A. is no lunatic, but is really a falsification expert. Mukhin can at the moment not
|
| 1382 |
+
say what it is that confirms this, but in time the public will know about it.<br>
|
| 1383 |
+
3. A:s motive "it hurts for my country" is confirmed by a personal motive which
|
| 1384 |
+
can be understood from a humanly perspective. When it eventually will be known the public
|
| 1385 |
+
will understand what that motive is about.<br>
|
| 1386 |
+
<br>
|
| 1387 |
+
Before Ilyukhin ran off he said that now A. is not the only one who has confessed but in
|
| 1388 |
+
the hurry Mukhin did not have time to get a clarification over this.<br>
|
| 1389 |
+
<br>
|
| 1390 |
+
At the press conference there were representatives from Polish media and people from the
|
| 1391 |
+
Russian "Memorial". A Polish journalist tried to argument against Ilyukhin by
|
| 1392 |
+
saying that the execution of the Polish officers is confirmed by the excavations in
|
| 1393 |
+
Kharkov and Mednoe. Ilyukhin replied that in the USSR only "criminal Poles" were
|
| 1394 |
+
executed. Mukhin, however, feels that this argument was somehow listless. The reply should
|
| 1395 |
+
have been that a court does not have any use of some excavator's "conclusions"
|
| 1396 |
+
developed during a commission without concrete evidence.<br>
|
| 1397 |
+
<br>
|
| 1398 |
+
For example, Mukhin means that they should explain why among the 169 sculls found in
|
| 1399 |
+
Kharkov only 62 bullet holes were found while the dead in Katyn almost all of them had
|
| 1400 |
+
traces of bullet holes. In Mednoe 226 dead "Poles" were found, but only twenty
|
| 1401 |
+
had bullet holes. <br>
|
| 1402 |
+
An exhumation is part of a judicial process; everything found must be thoroughly
|
| 1403 |
+
documented, described, photographed and collected. All evidence shall then be packed,
|
| 1404 |
+
protected against destruction and preserved until it can be presented to a court, which
|
| 1405 |
+
shall then decide the matter. <br>
|
| 1406 |
+
<br>
|
| 1407 |
+
Memorial's Nikita Petrov tried to portray the whole thing as it "probably is about a
|
| 1408 |
+
falsification amateur who has made himself some money on his forgeries, but which has
|
| 1409 |
+
nothing to do with the Katyn documents". <br>
|
| 1410 |
+
<br>
|
| 1411 |
+
Mukhin argues against that position. He says that an individual can never perform such
|
| 1412 |
+
advanced forgeries as it is about in this case. Mukhin says that before you can sell
|
| 1413 |
+
something you must first buy something. Among other things the false stamps must be paid.
|
| 1414 |
+
Then genuine old paper from the 1930s and 1940s must be acquired (with specific paper
|
| 1415 |
+
composition and texture). Then the work to put all these document attributes and small
|
| 1416 |
+
notifications here and there is very time consuming.<br>
|
| 1417 |
+
<br>
|
| 1418 |
+
Beyond that real typewriters from that period must be acquired (for example from Beria's
|
| 1419 |
+
office). That is something that is not to be done without considerable problems. In order
|
| 1420 |
+
to do that you must found documents in the KGB archive about deliveries of typewriters and
|
| 1421 |
+
establish which one of these was delivered specifically to Beria's office, and then
|
| 1422 |
+
through some antique store find that particular typewriter.<br>
|
| 1423 |
+
<br>
|
| 1424 |
+
And finally, you are spending a lot of time and money to produce for example
|
| 1425 |
+
"Stalin's letter to the General Staff of the Red Army", but then you also must
|
| 1426 |
+
sell the document. But to whom shall it be sold? Everyone will understand that the
|
| 1427 |
+
document is stolen, even if it is not false. The scholars are interested in the document
|
| 1428 |
+
text itself, and would never pay big money for a document. It is more convenient and also
|
| 1429 |
+
free of charge to write off a document directly in the archive. Why should you buy the
|
| 1430 |
+
document itself, and by then also commit a crime? And why should you buy a falsified
|
| 1431 |
+
archival document?<br>
|
| 1432 |
+
<br>
|
| 1433 |
+
According to Ilyukhin they have fears for the witness' life. "The witness will be
|
| 1434 |
+
presented to the investigation, if it will be performed on the highest governmental
|
| 1435 |
+
level", Ilyukhin added. <br>
|
| 1436 |
+
<br>
|
| 1437 |
+
Ilyukhin also claimed that "participants in the independent research group are also
|
| 1438 |
+
subjected to pressure, it is suggested that they officially shall retract their
|
| 1439 |
+
statements".<br>
|
| 1440 |
+
</p></td>
|
| 1441 |
+
</tr>
|
| 1442 |
+
</tbody></table>
|
| 1443 |
+
</div>
|
| 1444 |
+
|
| 1445 |
+
<p><a href="#The Katyn Forest Whodunnit"><strong>Back to the top of this Katyn page.</strong></a></p>
|
| 1446 |
+
|
| 1447 |
+
|
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