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**Autumn Nash:** Also, you get a lot of searches that you don't get on Google, which is wild, because I feel like before DuckDuckGo kind of had a rep for other things... And all of a sudden I'm getting better searches on DuckDuckGo. And I don't understand, at what point are we going to start to make logical sense? You'... |
**Justin Garrison:** I stopped using Bitcoin when I saw the energy usage of the Bitcoin networks. And just cryptocurrency in general. And then AI came along and was like "Hold my beer." |
**Autumn Nash:** Dude, and people were going in on Bitcoin, which - you know, justifiable. But then we came up with something worse, and they were like "It's going to be great." And it still doesn't do anything for us. The mom in me -- like, during COVID, I wanted to sit all the adults down and make them listen to Dani... |
**Justin Garrison:** \[01:11:33.06\] Yeah, as a product standpoint, yeah, absolutely. It's not solving my problems. Yeah. |
**Autumn Nash:** it's not even good capitalism. But wait, let's just take the warm and fuzzies out. It's not even -- how does this become profitable? And it's a crappy product. And you're spending more money. What...? I'm so confused. |
**Justin Garrison:** I just enjoy that this episode was bookended by talking about cartoons, in both different contexts. |
**Autumn Nash:** I'm just saying... Like, okay, tell me -- in the last five years, have you not wanted to sit an adult down and teach them the rules that we teach five-year-olds on like how to treat others, how you want to be treated? They all need to watch Daniel Tiger and Elmo and we need to fix them, because I just.... |
And then we were all like "We're going to do better for climate change." We literally -- this year, we've had some of the hottest days on record. And we're like YOLO. It's going to be fine. |
**Justin Garrison:** And that's the problem of climate change was a thing that everyone jumped onto when it made money for the business, right? When you could say "I'm carbon neutral, so it makes me money." But when something else that's not carbon neutral comes around and raises your stock price more... DEI went out t... |
**Autumn Nash:** They basically said YOLO to all warm and fuzzy things. But the thing is, is let's go back. Let's talk about the capitalistic way that these things -- because that's the part that pisses me off, right? As a black woman, people will be like "Oh, but DEI just makes you feel good." No, sir. Return on inves... |
**Justin Garrison:** Well, we're far off the beaten path of talking about CrowdStrike now, but this was a fun rant -- |
**Autumn Nash:** Hey, we talked about cartoons twice. Okay? This is very Autumn and Justin. We are very on the beaten path for us. |
**Justin Garrison:** Thank you so much, everyone, for listening, and we will talk to you again soon. |
• David Beale learned COBOL for a temp job at a toy distribution warehouse, where he was tasked with troubleshooting and writing code for hand scanners |
• The job required him to learn COBOL from scratch in a short amount of time, but he had some prior experience with programming languages like PHP, Python, and Perl |
• David Beale has not used COBOL since his temp job almost 20 years ago, but it's still widely used in industries such as finance, healthcare, and logistics |
• The interview touches on the changing nature of getting a job in tech, from being able to build things and having experience to now dealing with gatekeeping and high expectations for skills and experience |
• David Beale also discusses how his passion for skateboarding led him to learn programming, including writing a bot to download skate videos over his dial-up connection. |
• Downloading files on dial-up internet |
• Nostalgia for 90s internet and childhood experiences |
• Transition from skateboarding to technology and music |
• Early networking and computer learning through self-study |
• Patience and determination in troubleshooting and learning technology |
• Critique of modern expectations and appreciation for hands-on learning |
• Childhood trauma and its effects on resilience |
• Appreciation for simpler things in life due to difficult past experiences |
• Importance of finding supportive communities and people with similar backgrounds |
• Discussion of self-help books and personal development (The Courage to be Disliked and Can't Hurt Me) |
• Strategies for productivity, focus, and managing multiple tasks (morning pages, audiobooks, podcasts) |
• Personal habits and preferences for background noise while working or reading |
• Sugar high in children from eating unhealthy cereal |
• Comparing past and present diet habits |
• David Beale's career path, transitioning from temp job to DevOps engineer |
• Learning curve as a DevOps engineer in 2014, needing to get up to speed on various technologies |
• Current work in New York, helping startups migrate Heroku to AWS |
• Career highlights: working at Etsy, Glossier, Kustomer (acquired by Facebook) |
• Importance of in-person experience for early-career professionals in tech |
• The challenges of remote work and the benefits of in-person interactions |
• Migrating from Heroku to AWS due to cost concerns |
• The importance of learning how to think about problem-solving, rather than getting hung up on specific technologies or languages |
• Comparing programming language syntax, with Ruby being a favorite and Go being considered a perfect language |
• Observations on the similarities between COBOL and Go |
• The trend of companies moving away from cloud-native services and back towards bare metal infrastructure |
• Concerns about the environmental impact and cost-effectiveness of emerging technologies such as AI and blockchain |
• A general sense of uncertainty and disarray in the tech industry, with many feeling lost or unsure about what's driving technology forward. |
• The lostness in technology career paths has shifted from being driven by passion to being driven by financial gain. |
• The interview process in the tech industry is becoming increasingly focused on memorization and algorithmic skills rather than actual problem-solving abilities. |
• The use of LeetCode and similar platforms as a key part of the hiring process is seen as problematic, with some arguing that it prioritizes memorization over creativity and critical thinking. |
• The value placed on experience and networking in the tech industry has led to some individuals being able to bypass traditional interview processes. |
• There is a growing trend towards incorporating AI into the interview process, which raises questions about what skills are truly valued. |
• Lack of coding skills is not necessary for efficiency and being good at a job |
• Autonomy in work is desired by some interviewees |
• Debugging is a challenging but enjoyable process for some |
• The use of take-home assignments in job interviews can be frustrating and feel like working for free |
• Calendars and scheduling issues are a source of frustration in modern job interviewing |
• Some interviewees share humorous experiences with take-home assignments gone wrong |
• Discussion about being an extroverted developer |
• Importance of aligning personal values with job choices |
• Concerns about job market stability in tech due to AI and changing industry needs |
• Role of continuous learning and adaptability in career success |
• Favorite startup experience and lessons learned from it |
• Passing down knowledge through accessible formats, such as YouTube tutorials |
• Bill Gates' advocacy for nuclear power as a clean energy source |
• Concerns about nuclear reactor safety and potential disasters (e.g. Chernobyl) |
• Generation and efficiency of data centers, with discussion of new technologies and designs |
• Disconnect between consumers and the environmental impact of cloud computing and data center operations |
• Water usage, heat dissipation, and electricity consumption in data centers |
• Proposals for building underwater data centers as a potential solution to environmental concerns |
• Personal anecdotes about running own servers at home and being aware of their environmental impact |
• Discussion of hosting events for tech-savvy children with Justin Garrison |
• Evolution of computing and big computers vs Raspberry Pi's |
• Impact of data centers on environment and climate change |
• Insulation and passive cooling as alternatives to air conditioning |
• Carbon footprint and responsible technology use |
• Personal responsibility in reducing energy consumption and screen time |
• Promotion of the Scale conference and Southern California Linux Expo |
• The conference is like a "nerd summer camp" and the attendees are kind and nice |
• Justin Garrison has talks at several upcoming conferences: All Things Open in Raleigh (October), KubeCon North America in Salt Lake City (November) |
• Autumn Nash is jealous of Justin's upcoming trip to London, which he will be attending after recording this episode |
**Justin Garrison:** Hello and welcome to Ship It, the podcast all about what happens after you git push. I'm your host, Justin Garrison, and with me, as always, is Autumn Nash. Autumn will be on the interview, because we're doing these shorter intros... Don't worry about it, we're going to get rid of them. We're just ... |
But this one, I did want to intro David... He made a LinkedIn post about how he learned COBOL to join a toy factory. And I was so interested, I said "Can you come talk about it a little bit? I just want to hear about your journey, I want to hear about what you did, how you got into it, what you were doing at the time..... |
**Justin Garrison:** Alright, today we have David Beale on the show to talk about some things he's done in the past, but also we're interested to hear what he's doing in the future. So David, thank you for coming on the show. |
**David Beale:** Thanks, Justin. Happy to be here. |
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