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**Adam Stacoviak:** I'll be more specific... So you listen to music, and there's old albums from back in the day... A remash of them in new audio quality for today's current systems, whatever... It's kind of revisiting a memory and remastering it. Maybe it's not a one-to-one perfect analogy, but the point is that you g... |
Someone who has this issue with clowns, if they didn't take the time to process that and go back and say "Well, this happened to me at five years old, and that's the reason why I feel that way", now present day the way they feel around clowns can be different, because they understand where the pain, or drama, or feelin... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. It's interesting, because as much as we're talking about memory, I want people to get at that the primary part of the brain that's responsible for memory is what we call the hippocampus. I always think of a hippo... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Every time. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** That's where I store things. Well, that hippocampus is part of our limbic system, which is responsible for a lot of emotional processing and reasoning. So it would make sense that high emotions - no matter what they are, positive or negative - would play a role in influencing what we remem... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And that's why going "Okay, if I'm aware of these significant events \[unintelligible 00:17:33.00\] I took in sensory data - senses being see, smell, touch, taste or hear - that my brain is going to maybe implicitly store those. I'm gonna bank those memories in a different way that I also ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I've been in therapy before, and similar to what you're describing here, they told me to take these various things -- I'm gonna summarize it, without going through the whole therapy session, of course... But essentially to take these things and put them into my briefcase/suitcase and create a file f... |
I can't recall the exact scenario, but it was this idea of packaging them up, putting them in a specific place, and with a specific emotion attached to them, or lack thereof of any threat etc. It was really interesting how it was like "Create a file." |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. I think that's a really helpful way of describing the process. If you're aware that you have a file, or that you don't have a file, it can influence how you respond to that. I think a significant event that many people have faced in some form or fashion would be cancer, or health co... |
Well, those things can form the file that then I associate this new information with, that then creates a feeling, that then creates a response, and now I'm headed down a road that I didn't even know I was going down. So that awareness around how I'm sort of consolidating information, or the framework within which I op... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[20:26\] No. Some like to, obviously... It's nice to have similarity from frontend to backend, for example. Every language or framework has a significant use opportunity, so it wouldn't fit perfectly in every place, and trying to make it happen wouldn't be good. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So with individuals, our listeners, or going "Hey, your memories actually influence you, in some form or fashion." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. But it you have the opportunity to make a choice, what do you do? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, this is why if we go back to that iceberg analogy, recognizing what you see -- and this is why having that board of advisors (people close to you) might give you alternative data or feedback, that then you sort of put all of that together and go "Okay, in light of X, Y or Z, would th... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Because some people would go "Oh, I had a really bad experience", and it doesn't have to be traumatic to allow experiences to influence decisions... Like, for example, food poisoning. Think of how many people might have even gotten sick around the same time that they ate a certain food, an... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, sometimes it can be connected to what comes out... Which is a little TMI, but I have a memory very closely attached to being sick, and I will never eat that food again. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's very near and dear, I suppose; it's happened. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So that's rooted in your experience... So you retrieve that. And if you were to eat that, your brain would be like-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Associations, yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right, "Here's your warning label." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Just even the smell of it reminds you of the disgust you had. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? Yeah... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I have a similar feeling, I suppose, to -- I know at some point in our life we'll buy, or potentially build a new house... And when we built our current house, it was -- it could have just been the timeframe, and the fact that our son wasn't very old; so it could have just been the timeframe, or the... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Very difficult. So the next time we do it, I'm gonna be very specific and very purposeful in deciding to even do it. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I'm so glad you brought that up, because what you're getting at, Adam, is the way in which learning is highly tethered into/connected to memory. And because I suspect there was significant emotions around the process... It wasn't super-simple, dare I say. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It was harder than I thought. It was a lot more involved; it was like a second job. It's a significant investment; it's where you're gonna spend potentially the rest of your life, if it's your long-term home, or 20-30 year home, whatever it might be... But it's a very important thing, and you wanna ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[23:55\] Right. So all of that experience played a role in what you learned and the information you consolidated, or dare I say encoded, and then stored for future use. So when we're talking about "What are you learning?" you have to go "What is it that I'm paying attention to? What is it... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** When you say that do you mean perspective, potentially? Because two people, same process, two different memories. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And my wife's memories aren't exactly -- she agrees it was hard, but I'm far more catastrophic about it than she is. I'm catastrophizing the scenario in many ways, and she's like "Nah, that's not true." But we were both in the same place, same time... Most times we were both at the job site, our hom... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. So hence what you learned or extrapolated from that differs... Which would make you more prone to do it again, or maybe less prone, because of what you learned. So really, learning is this process by which we remember things for future use... So it's interesting, because I'm very fas... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Effort as in attention effort? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Effort as in energy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** For example, there is -- and I'm not sure if I've referenced this research study before or not, but there's one where they've had students/kids look at a computer screen, and one computer screen, and one computer screen was really difficult to make out what was on it, so the kids had to pu... |
So the group that had to work harder or put forth more effort, was actually the one that retained more later on. So they remembered better because there was a certain degree of effort involved in it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I guess that could be correlated with commitment. If you're committed to something, it's somewhat like effort; you're gonna be mentally committed, you're gonna have a different mental picture of whatever it is, differently than somebody who's not committed, who's not creating a mental picture prior ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. I would even offer one step further maybe, saying your level of investment. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Because not everybody has the same level of investment, because who cares about all the same things in the same way, or same degree? Nobody. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Nobody. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Nobody. And really, that's what makes the world work. Ideally, if everybody does their individual part, we can all work together. So for people to recognize, learning always involves some degree of energy and effort. This is why when I think about technology - I used to be a lot better at ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, you can't do it. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, this is the challenge. Sometimes easy isn't always better. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[27:57\] Yeah. There's the flipside though, that some would say that I'm being more efficient given certain assurances that today's world offers. Assuming the cloud doesn't go down. Assuming that my iPhone has a charge. Assuming all those things remain true, then why store them in memory? It could ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. So that would be true in some ways, but also then maybe not for other people, in other ways. But you're correct that it's a reallocation of resources, and saying "I don't need to spend my cognitive resources or hold a huge file to remember phone numbers, because I've got somewhere els... |
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