data/Poyini.txt

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:00:14
Unknown
okay. So

00:00:00:16 - 00:00:01:22
Unknown
today I have with me,

00:00:01:22 - 00:00:08:10
Unknown
very interesting person, a role model for all those who are in the incubation ecosystem.

00:00:08:10 - 00:00:10:09
Unknown
The top voice, for

00:00:10:11 - 00:00:12:02
Unknown
ma'am, from,

00:00:12:02 - 00:00:36:20
Unknown
you know, we know him as Sinead Bombay is here, right? She has retired from that role, and now she's taken up a much, much bigger role, which is, you know, mentoring the entire ecosystem, having built the ecosystem, in the West, in, in Bombay. And then, you know, across the western region, she, she, you know, goes across the country now, with the Incubator Association of India,

00:00:36:22 - 00:00:37:18
Unknown
SBA,

00:00:37:20 - 00:00:41:24
Unknown
with government bodies, and several other initiatives.

00:00:42:01 - 00:01:09:11
Unknown
Their name is now mentoring the stakeholders, in the startup ecosystem. Thank you very much, ma'am, for making. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. Okay, so, you know, the you spoke much more than what I deserve, but thanks for kind words. Yeah, I, so, we've had, you know, background discussion on this. You know, why we are building guests?

00:01:09:13 - 00:01:28:08
Unknown
The primary stakeholder, which is the student. And, we've been going around, to several campuses, talking to several students, and we've been very gung ho about students becoming, entrepreneurs. Okay. Am I wrong? Are we doing the right thing?

00:01:28:11 - 00:01:31:24
Unknown
Are we overhyping entrepreneurship for students?

00:01:32:01 - 00:01:35:24
Unknown
Let's start with that. Yep. No, I think so.

00:01:36:01 - 00:01:36:22
Unknown
You're not wrong.

00:01:36:22 - 00:01:40:13
Unknown
When you go around and talk to students about entrepreneurship,

00:01:40:13 - 00:01:46:12
Unknown
where the next generation of entrepreneurs will come typically student in academia, right.

00:01:46:14 - 00:02:07:12
Unknown
Especially I'm talking about technology that would also come from academia as well. So absolutely, like, you know, they're the very, very, serious stakeholder in entrepreneurship. So, you're not wrong in basically focusing on them when it comes to entrepreneurship.

00:02:07:14 - 00:02:29:15
Unknown
Of course, they're not the only like, you know, wannabe entrepreneurs. There are others also potentially, who go out to work and come back and become entrepreneurs. I, I think, when you talk about you say we are overhyping or celebrate, for example, when I go to my class, you know, I say, who wants to become an entrepreneur?

00:02:29:16 - 00:02:56:06
Unknown
You know, when you go in the class a little bit, you know, theatrical, We're trying to perform in front of the class, right? We're trying to encourage them and use them. And, in that spirit, maybe somewhere we are hyping entrepreneurship, glamorizing, you know, but can students actually become entrepreneurs who, we have seen some stories everyone doesn't become.

00:02:56:08 - 00:03:17:22
Unknown
But when you see it from the top right, from the ecosystem lens, you know, every nook and corner, you know, several educational institutions you've seen several stories yourself from Bombay, from outside Bombay. As I said, I was not a student in I think one mitigate. So so let us, you know, calibrate this. Let us make a correction to this if we need to.

00:03:17:22 - 00:03:18:04
Unknown
But,

00:03:18:10 - 00:03:20:24
Unknown
you know, what should we be telling students about entrepreneurship?

00:03:21:01 - 00:03:23:13
Unknown
So see, the thing is,

00:03:23:13 - 00:03:36:18
Unknown
when it comes to entrepreneurship, there are two aspects. One is enough traits to become an entrepreneur, and another is kind of the journey, process and element of entrepreneurship

00:03:36:18 - 00:03:46:16
Unknown
right now. Even if you teach entrepreneurship, many don't have the traits. What are those traits like?

00:03:46:16 - 00:04:28:21
Unknown
You know, risk taking ability? Dealing with uncertain environment, taking like, you know, willingness to go for the very long haul. These are some of the very, very critical aspects of the entrepreneurship that you can teach. That's a personal traits and characteristics. But the process of entrepreneurship, like you need to have, like, you know, co-founders or at least team member to get started with what are the fundraising aspects, how to go and like, you know, reach out to the customers, GDM, all those stuff.

00:04:29:02 - 00:04:57:14
Unknown
Right? I think these are the processes like, you know, understanding about those processes is very important for them. So this needs to be taught and anyone can learn it. This is basically one has to develop on their own. And it's like you know my my thing is that you do all engineering students. So for example, physics student always remain a physicist.

00:04:57:14 - 00:05:26:13
Unknown
No drift in their career path. Right? So will be the case for even, like taking who are taking the course courses of entrepreneurship. Not all of them will become entrepreneur, but it's good to tell story. It's good to tell what it involves. They're the hype is around is that everyone sees the success, but no one sees that. It took 20 years to.

00:05:26:15 - 00:05:50:06
Unknown
Yeah, look what it looks like. An overnight success, right? Yeah. So only good thing about the startup and all those things I think when need not remain, you know, stuck to it. Every aspect of entrepreneurship as a matter of fact you teach them k story. As a matter of fact, you teach them even I would say case studies fail.

00:05:50:06 - 00:06:20:14
Unknown
Entrepreneurs are very, very important to teach. So as a matter of fact, it is important to teach them not in a in a very glamorized manner, you know, in what you talk about, only sharing stories and like, you know, everyone is going to win. That's not going to be the case. Okay. So, yeah, you know, failure is something which we do point to when we tell students, you know, that anyone can become an entrepreneur.

00:06:20:15 - 00:06:44:14
Unknown
You try it for yourself, you can become an engineer, a doctor next or not. You have those dreams. Isn't that right? And again, not everyone reaches the, pinnacle of, you know, their respective fields. Only a few people do. And entrepreneurship is such as? Well, isn't it? So, failure is also in every field. Wherever you go, you want to do civil services, you know, you want to get into an idea.

00:06:44:16 - 00:06:52:13
Unknown
You know, there is more competition. So, but the failure stories, how do we bring them out is something that we've not figured,

00:06:52:15 - 00:06:58:23
Unknown
especially in entrepreneurship, we are not celebrating failure. But we do go in the class and say, are you ready to fail?

00:06:59:00 - 00:07:08:08
Unknown
Failure is equal to learning. But interestingly, as Raj Kapoor is back and he said, you know, failure, we have to unpack it as well.

00:07:08:10 - 00:07:31:15
Unknown
It's it's failure is not equal to learning. Failure has a process. There is an emotional element to it. You have to give it time to overcome it. And only after that your cognitive side activates. And only then you learn. You know, so when we say failure, getting ready for it or helping students, you know, think that failure is equal to learning, you know, what is your understanding of it?

00:07:31:15 - 00:07:35:04
Unknown
How do you see this? I mean, like, you know, the

00:07:35:06 - 00:07:49:08
Unknown
you also require entrepreneurs to come forward and say that this is how this is why I failed. And I learned this thing. So that maturity level has to be there.

00:07:49:10 - 00:07:58:10
Unknown
If we you give them time, maybe you capture the story after two year or three year when they are ready to tell about it.

00:07:58:12 - 00:08:24:21
Unknown
But I think it has to be told. I think you talk about this, celebration of failure. Right. There's this Silko foundation you might have heard about. Hoodies under and suit. It's Bangalore based. They have annual conference where they celebrate failures because failure is a across like, you know, failure of innovation, failure of like, product ization fail at every stage.

00:08:24:23 - 00:08:48:23
Unknown
Failure you have a product ready. You also see that there is a proper product market fit out there, but you are not able to take it to the market. So there is a failure on GTM side as well. At a skill level, every failure is important to say at what stage, why? Like they have failed and then that becomes a very relatable story.

00:08:48:23 - 00:09:16:23
Unknown
It's not a celebration kind of thing, but these are the cases need to be taught to. Yeah, students like, again, celebration is again glorifying the things. But as a matter of fact, it has to be taught to them. And from that failure, perhaps entrepreneurs viewpoint what they could have done or what they should have avoided. Then it becomes a very, very valuable lessons for the economy entrepreneurs.

00:09:17:00 - 00:09:41:10
Unknown
So, so we we do need to, derive lessons from failure. But interesting to know about telco. And yeah, we had conversations around graveyard analysis looking at what happened to those. And you know, all the we say 90% of the startups fail. What happens to the entrepreneurs is something that we don't know, right. Ventures may fail, but those 90% entrepreneurs have this started again.

00:09:41:12 - 00:10:06:10
Unknown
That process has that yielded enough learning for them to, you know, so in your experience, when ventures have not worked out, how have founders reacted? Right. So before that, just like before, I answer this question, why also failure stories have to be told because more and more you talk about failure, it it becomes an, you know, normal.

00:10:06:12 - 00:10:31:00
Unknown
Process. Yeah. Because failure it is a stigma. There is a loss of confidence. Yah also becomes kind of a negative role model. So these are the negative aspects. When you speak more and more about failure. Yeah. You know our entrepreneur talks about the it's a normal process okay. It didn't work out. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. But I haven't stopped here.

00:10:31:00 - 00:10:58:24
Unknown
And that's where your next question comes. Right. So like in olden days, 20 years back, it was a big stigma, taboo and or even social taboo, right. Parents didn't want it. Entrepreneurs were scared and all this stuff. I think we have come over that entrepreneurs I haven't seen, entrepreneurs who have not made it very big, but they will become like, you know, a serial entrepreneur and succeeding in subsequent venture.

00:10:59:01 - 00:11:24:11
Unknown
I haven't seen entrepreneur who could not who had wound up their business and become like even investors. Yeah. Because they could spot entrepreneur very well investable opportunities. Very well. I think they also got absorbing the corporates and started working there. So I think like there are pathways. It's not that you get stuck in one place only.

00:11:24:13 - 00:11:47:12
Unknown
So failure has to be normalized. It has to be not only the contrasting to this. You know this is another you know of course in the last ten years we've moved a long way from where we were in the ecosystem startup India you know, and from 2016 onwards several other government push has been amazing in terms of popularizing the startup ecosystem.

00:11:47:14 - 00:12:11:17
Unknown
One thing that has happened is, the Shark Tank show, right? And there's a lot there's these recently, which is happening as well, such shows have created a lot of awareness at the house or like a wrote startup, the word has become a household name. But, it has also glamorized fundraising. And so students are the first question that they ask is,

00:12:11:18 - 00:12:12:17
Unknown
how will I fundraise?

00:12:12:17 - 00:12:13:18
Unknown
Will I get the money?

00:12:13:18 - 00:12:32:24
Unknown
And I'm not I want to become an entrepreneur, but I don't know how to get funding. Yeah. Where are you on this? Should we be thinking about this? So I think before starting our own media had glamorize fundraising, valuation hype and all this stuff. Right. It has both sides of the coin, right?

00:12:32:24 - 00:13:00:02
Unknown
Like it has created awareness and also kind of, given some sense of security funding is available in the country. Which was missing not very long ago. Okay. Yeah. But I think as a student entrepreneur, one has to understand that more than fundraising, getting customer money is a very critical aspect. Okay. And that needs to be balanced out.

00:13:00:04 - 00:13:32:14
Unknown
Like and that balance, basically those kind of things are noises are coming at a correction is coming at investor level. Also, they now focus on being online balances rather than fundraising and valuation. And other aspects to it. But yeah, like fundraising or stories around fundraising when needed, it need not be over glamorized or it need not be glamorized at the cost of fundamentals of startup.

00:13:32:17 - 00:13:40:03
Unknown
Right. Which is basically, you know, making money from the customer. And yeah, like, you know, getting the right product for it.

00:13:40:09 - 00:13:46:10
Unknown
So you think about product first, you think about customer first investment will follow. Investor will follow.

00:13:46:12 - 00:13:53:13
Unknown
Okay I'll give you a very simple case. Yeah. Last night I was talking to guess has an army of campus investors.

00:13:53:15 - 00:14:14:11
Unknown
We have about 500 plus students from across Indian universities who become campus ambassadors. And they are actually doing this survey in their respective institutions. And we are at 16,000 responses already. One of the questions I was doing an, a workshop on entrepreneurial mindset with them. One of them said, sir, I have written two books and I want to sell them.

00:14:14:13 - 00:14:35:12
Unknown
I've sold 20 already, I published, I sold, right now I want to publish more, but I need two lakh rupees. Okay. Now how how where do I get the money? What do I tell them? Where will I get the money for a student in, you know, third year of B.Tech. For him, two lakh is a big amount now.

00:14:35:14 - 00:15:01:24
Unknown
Yeah. Do like. So the thing is that I don't this like publishing book is a venture that is talking in that context or whatever it is. But I think getting two lakhs or five lakhs or ten lakh specially for startup tech venture, there are several options that are granted. There are like you know, IRR now like there are also the stitch specific grant available.

00:15:01:24 - 00:15:40:18
Unknown
So to make prototyping grant available, there is a entrepreneurship residency. Right. There is a policy kind of grant available. There is also translation research grant available. So several grants are available now particularly this case I think if is like you know entrepreneur probably he has to figure out is very innovative way to strike a deal with a publisher or potential angel investor who is willing to invest in this kind of publication kind of thing, or profit sharing or something like that, and then raise the funding.

00:15:40:18 - 00:16:13:05
Unknown
But I think Two Legs is not a I don't know the economic background, but you can actually even crowdfund it if that is the idea, if it is so compelling, like I see on several campuses, student 10,000, 20,000 basically crowd crowdsource, right? So those kind of things. So he also has to figure out that way. But ultimately whether it is if, if it's a book as a product, but ultimately whether it's book or any other product, product should be appealing to the target audience.

00:16:13:07 - 00:16:42:16
Unknown
So even this author has to understand who is its target audience, and it has to learn his manuscript. You know, potentially to few target audience, whether it is a sellable book or not. Content is very important. Right? So that's how he he has to go. So, you know, I brought up this question because dealing with students, if we are in the incubation center, you deal with much more mature questions, right?

00:16:42:16 - 00:17:01:21
Unknown
You did the entry better. And in sign at Bombay, the entry barrier would be much higher. When I came out of the incubation center, one of the reasons I took a guess, I came out 400 startups in eight years. 10% from the students are very demanding. And now I go to class and students like said, we have an idea.

00:17:01:21 - 00:17:13:00
Unknown
I'm teaching entrepreneurship and go to the incubator. So you don't select is there is is what they're saying. So what do I tell them. No. So I yes I want to become an entrepreneur.

00:17:13:04 - 00:17:17:17
Unknown
Several students want to become entrepreneurs. There is a will which is there

00:17:17:17 - 00:17:28:17
Unknown
because maybe you have glamorized it. Maybe we are encouraging them. Maybe the Prime Minister is talking about there is will, there is a skill gap.

00:17:28:19 - 00:17:40:09
Unknown
Right. What is the right question. What are the basic rules. First principles of entrepreneurship. The mindset now should we see this as a challenge and an opportunity. Who will address this challenge.

00:17:40:09 - 00:17:42:09
Unknown
How do we skill up our youth.

00:17:42:11 - 00:17:49:03
Unknown
You know there is a gap. Everyone is not getting accepted in the incubator. They think books. They think too.

00:17:49:03 - 00:18:00:08
Unknown
Like with the think big challenges. How do we solve this little gap? Supporting the other, not getting accepted because of lack of the skill? I don't think so.

00:18:00:08 - 00:18:03:23
Unknown
I think probably it's lack of business skills.

00:18:04:01 - 00:18:32:03
Unknown
Okay, yeah. What I mean is that the idea of does it have a potential customer who would pay, the, the way to execute maybe out there there is a skill, but whether there is an appropriate understanding, if it is not there, then with a good idea, a good product, it may be taught right, but fundamentally, don't become an entrepreneur.

00:18:32:08 - 00:18:57:17
Unknown
You require some products solution services where there is a market which is solving a problem, right. And a customer is willing to pay. Right. I think that is a fundamental thing. So incubator will also look at those aspects first rather than just. And I think for student, most incubators now realize that they become very wrong when it comes to the skill.

00:18:57:19 - 00:19:28:09
Unknown
Right. And along the way they will basically get exposed to too many activities ecosystem training, program, workshop. Then they will learn their skill. But there is a fundamental aspect which is lacking that they don't have product solution service for which lack which is addressing particular problem for which customer is existing and customer is willing to pay, then I think no incubator will accept them.

00:19:28:11 - 00:19:32:14
Unknown
Okay. So one has to understand. So just becoming an entrepreneur,

00:19:32:14 - 00:19:49:09
Unknown
I think fundamentally it has to be taught that you find a problem, which is basically, you know, with which has a solution, that solution, like there's a customer who is willing to adopt it and paid.

00:19:49:11 - 00:19:56:09
Unknown
So you said it needs to pay for it. It needs to be taught, which I am interpreting as we can teach entrepreneurship.

00:19:56:11 - 00:20:18:11
Unknown
And earlier you said there are two sides to it the inner trades and there is a journey element to it, okay, where you can learn certain things. For example, you need co-founders, the process, you can learn the inner traits. You know we have no control over it. Yeah. Do these traits change over time? Can we mold people into becoming better entrepreneurs?

00:20:18:13 - 00:20:28:07
Unknown
I honestly, I don't have a definite answer with, statistics, but,

00:20:28:09 - 00:21:03:08
Unknown
I do believe that some of the traits evolve along with their experiences. Yeah, I do believe because, for example, there are students who who have taken up a job for security or initial like, you know, pressure, whatever economic pressure or family, social pressure, but they don't fit in work environment. And then they try to become an entrepreneur and they have succeeded in those cases also.

00:21:03:10 - 00:21:32:23
Unknown
So I, I do believe but as I said, that I don't have any statistical, large statistical data that we can say, okay, we can model around this till you can create a theory around these numbers that I don't have. But I believe that traits could also evolve over a period of time based on experience. Not in the same like, you know, number that we would have expected, but it's not so static thing like you know.

00:21:33:02 - 00:21:43:06
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, but but how do you, when you accept someone into an incubation, right. You can test their understanding of the processes.

00:21:43:08 - 00:21:46:01
Unknown
How do you test the inner traits?

00:21:46:03 - 00:21:53:24
Unknown
What signals do you look for? I think you can do that. Actually, you can figure this out. So the way they come, like, you know,

00:21:54:01 - 00:22:03:00
Unknown
clarity about the product, clarity about the customer, or clarity about existing gap, even if they they are wrong.

00:22:03:02 - 00:22:13:17
Unknown
Maybe like, you know, they eventually many entrepreneur pivot, but they've already done certain groundwork connected with them with the customer and those

00:22:13:17 - 00:22:27:21
Unknown
thing. Right. That's one one thing. Second thing is that in context with then you see them that they have they are not on the fence. They have not opted for placement. They really want to work with them.

00:22:27:21 - 00:22:55:17
Unknown
They've taken certain academic projects. So these are the instances, they're taken certain academic project and they want to continue with that or using those experiences. They have to develop new product. And so and so I think you can figure this out. Like you know that's how even investors are also, you know, betting their money on entrepreneurs. But their ability to deal with uncertainty, you know, being there for the long haul.

00:22:55:19 - 00:22:58:18
Unknown
Taking up an academic project, which can be short term.

00:22:58:20 - 00:23:01:10
Unknown
Is there a way to assess or just have to take a bet?

00:23:01:12 - 00:23:16:08
Unknown
I think so. There is an element. Element, of course, but like for example, dealing with the uncertainty is like when when you, you have not basically they have not, seen those kind of things.

00:23:16:08 - 00:23:47:20
Unknown
But the when you talk to them, you know, that they project their career trajectory the way they have teamed up with, collaborated with others, the way they have looked at the market and all the rest of the like, sense about product development, sense about reaching the market. Like if someone say, oh, my product will be ready within a it's a healthcare product, then then someone says that my product will be ready within, like, you know, one year or 15 months, two of the market.

00:23:47:20 - 00:24:10:06
Unknown
Right, right, right. So you can figure out, okay, they have not done, but they say they have a roadmap to that and they process that information internally. Then three years it could take for a year or five year they will be able to take that whole. So I think some of the things that you can sense about it, not not 100%, but by and large you can sense about it.

00:24:10:07 - 00:24:36:17
Unknown
Okay. Just conversation and certain questions, like, you know, conversation in certain direction gives you a sense about the trait and personality of a person. Okay. So but I will I will tell you, for example, in an insane when a student or entrepreneur or any other young entrepreneur would come to sign.

00:24:36:19 - 00:25:09:00
Unknown
Sheerly for the purpose of exit accessing grant. Yeah. Like you would like figure out that they are coming only for money. And if there is no money, how long they will go? You don't know. So if the motivation is the motivation of coming to incubator is only accessing Grant. Yeah, right. Then you really don't get very thrilled about it.

00:25:09:05 - 00:25:44:10
Unknown
But if the motivation is even to access ecosystem of incubation like experimental facility accessing student for internship, accessing like, faculty member for advisory input or mentoring input or working with other entrepreneurs. So there is an experiential sharing out there or developing improving my product to in the lab. These are the things. So the idea is not only you go to yeah, idea is basically a sense.

00:25:44:10 - 00:25:45:13
Unknown
You get is that this

00:25:45:16 - 00:25:53:24
Unknown
entrepreneur is not here only for the money, but actually they want to go through the entire process of startup.

00:25:54:01 - 00:25:56:18
Unknown
Very serious about this startup.

00:25:56:20 - 00:26:15:19
Unknown
Yeah, I have several questions around the incubation thing, but I'm holding off because we are focusing on these students and how do we get them in? No, but that was not what I was trying to say, is that that was one of the yardstick we would assess. Yeah. A student that if money is not there, then what am I don't know.

00:26:15:19 - 00:26:34:20
Unknown
That's right. I keep telling them if you, you know, go asking for you call me in the first thing you say, sir. Grant. Hey. Yeah. And then, you know, you go asking for money, you get advice. It would be sweet meal to give. Let's say, you know, we we are not funding agency. You know, it's great that we have money to this budget to start, but that's not what we do.

00:26:34:22 - 00:26:57:21
Unknown
I wanted to look at the incubation funnel. You know, some numbers I was talking to reach yesterday from campus fund and to give me some amazing numbers. 20,000 applicants so far. And they funded 41 out of the last five years. Okay. Can we get some numbers? You know, for students to understand, what does it look like in terms of either competition or, say, the grit that you need to have?

00:26:57:23 - 00:27:26:11
Unknown
How many applications come into an incubation center, like saying year on year over the last year, what has happened? You know, how many have made it through different processes saying idea validated or prototype build or fundraise unfolded? What happened? Give us some person I'll tell you in science number typically when I was in saying we would get about thousand to 1500 application.

00:27:26:13 - 00:28:01:18
Unknown
And this is a serious application because, it was very well known to like science position was that we would take in those days only product based companies. IP based companies, some affiliation retired to Bombay. Those was the 2013, 2013. This was pretty much initially 15, 16 years old saying. And in those days we would get about 1000 plus application and we would end up taking about 7 or 8 in the incubator or ten, I would say.

00:28:01:20 - 00:28:33:03
Unknown
Now, of course, like, you know, sine also has evolved in its model point, then taking, various profiles of the company. So those numbers have also gone, gone very high. But there was already one barrier on eligibility that we had created, and it would be a thousand plus application we would end up taking at ten. And at the incubation level, it would be like, you know, this was the number where we would ideally incubation at the incubation level.

00:28:33:03 - 00:28:56:12
Unknown
You ought to be taking more risk. Yeah. So even at that level we were taking then that. So I think in the first 15 years. So science started in early 2002, 2000. And so until 2007 14 not every year 2000. What I would say is over the period it evolved in the manner because in the initial then there was not much buzz around entrepreneurship.

00:28:56:12 - 00:28:57:09
Unknown
So we wouldn't

00:28:57:11 - 00:29:04:15
Unknown
even we had to work very hard to, create awareness about entrepreneurship.

00:29:04:15 - 00:29:23:21
Unknown
So all these applications are mentioned. They are from within IoT, right. Because you will I even out segment who had willingness to affiliate with item on me ya on alum and those kind of thing. Yeah. Still I did about but I heard you know, until 2013 or so sign was only for IoT Bombay come in community for a long time.

00:29:23:21 - 00:29:54:19
Unknown
That's what I was telling. Like, it was like, you know, initial 15 years that there wasn't necessary requirement for affiliation with IoT Bombay as a student or alum or tech IP or faculty involvement, some some kind of a IoT partner, like students coming, those kind of thing. Then, of course, we we were more open, like, because we were managing too many programs of government.

00:29:54:19 - 00:30:23:13
Unknown
And you cannot be just be limited only to IoT Bombay. Okay. So that was the thing. But one time like towards like, you know, after 2000, 15, 16, towards the end of last decade, typically we would get about thousand node application and we would end up taking eight, ten, companies in the incubator. That was the number. Now, there could be many reasons that could be fundamental.

00:30:23:15 - 00:30:50:06
Unknown
Like, you know, not good company, proposals or ideas. Not serious. Even the entrepreneur may not be serious. So those kind of thing, I mean, we had our own selection process. We would get it validated by experts. And eventually, like when experts approved, we would take up the companies. So I think number that Richa Stirling Richard is a even funding.

00:30:50:06 - 00:31:10:17
Unknown
Right. So there's she's putting money in the company pretty much daily. Then if you ask me CVC would also say the same thing then, then they get like you know 1000 application and or maybe 100, they would end up investing in 1 or 2 kind of thing. So these are the numbers that funnel I think it is the same probably in student.

00:31:10:17 - 00:31:40:16
Unknown
It is more because students are still evolving. Lots of student applications are not really based on serious tech or not addressing serious problems. So they they basically then fall through the cracks. Right. So those number that student level would be much higher. Right. And after, you know, 2015 or so, you know, have these numbers changed because you had to cater to several government schemes.

00:31:40:16 - 00:32:09:13
Unknown
Yeah. Significantly significant. So then right now if you are saying it would be much more than 1000. Yeah. Okay. I also wanted to, you know for the benefit of the students draw, you know, grant map since they want money and you know, investors are saying if you, there is so much money available from government grants, one of the signals that we pick up is have you already collected, you know, 20 to 50 lakh rupees from these grants?

00:32:09:15 - 00:32:42:17
Unknown
If you have done that, at least you are a solid. And no, no, no, not really. No. Because there are student entrepreneur who go from grant to grant. Yes. Right. And once you go grant to grant like and not going for basically commercial money or VC money, that two three signals out there, the first thing is that like how much milestone you have achieved from the grant.

00:32:42:19 - 00:33:15:05
Unknown
If you have not achieved significant milestone you are not ready to take bigger money. Hence you are not going to receive money. Right? Right. So that is one one signal signal. Another signal is that you don't want to dilute your equity. Okay. Yeah. Third signal is that these grants are small. Small grant. And if you keep on taking initial two years or three years just small small money how far you can go.

00:33:15:07 - 00:33:42:05
Unknown
Right. So your, your sense of urgency is also missing which is very critical for so these are the negative side of lagging. And I've seen lots of startups. They float around Grant and accelerator and free grant and free accelerator and those kind of thing. They lose their larger focus. They lose their sense of urgency out there and contrast them.

00:33:42:05 - 00:34:14:20
Unknown
There are entrepreneurs who have actually like, you know, diluted their ownership, which investor future investor may not have agreed to, but they wanted to act fast, launch product fast. So I think you require a balance of grant and VC money, like in context with the quantum milestone time.

00:34:14:22 - 00:34:51:12
Unknown
Interesting. So we saying money is available, but still there are dynamics. Not necessarily that, you know, if you have raised grant money that should signal that the entrepreneur is good. There could also mean you are, you know, surviving on grants only. Okay. So this is the other side of the coin. Yeah. So like, you know, those who have raised Grant, who have developed the product like so Shane has other show was the right initial stage like he raised lots of grants, to develop the product.

00:34:51:12 - 00:35:17:24
Unknown
And he was also building a healthcare product which has a long gestation period and all those things. But then once he was in the market, he raised commercial money like so he is focus was more on commercial money. So it requires that balance. Yeah. For awareness purposes I want to list the name of government departments or, you know, bodies which today have grants for student level entrepreneurs.

00:35:17:24 - 00:35:52:01
Unknown
Right. So let us make a list, you know, where do you want does that let me start like first player government player in startup ecosystem. When startup was not a buzzword it was Department of Science and Technology. Okay. Yeah. They funded incubators based on incubators feedback. They also started startup grants like. Yeah. So and they have also like, you know, like graded grants basically.

00:35:52:01 - 00:36:22:19
Unknown
So, Peter, I mean, I would say, so first was basically iron, which is an entrepreneur who knows. And typically like, you know, it's a student entrepreneur is a focus out there. Right? They want to start they have an idea, but certain things are missing. For example, they want to convert that idea into concrete, business plan, business proposition or they don't have a team.

00:36:22:19 - 00:36:50:04
Unknown
So entrepreneur wants to basically meet with is waiting to form a good team or want to create a POC, right? So give them about 9 to 12 months or 15 months i.e entrepreneur in innovation, business individual, individual, innovator, innovator as a target they they can they be students or do they have to graduate before they can enter into this program.

00:36:50:06 - 00:37:15:02
Unknown
So yeah they could be pursuing student but it should be towards end towards them towards not first year student or thing like. So the very first, you know, in a heredity of scheme, the very first is end with somebody who is close to graduate. Exactly. Can and single founder. Yeah it could be so like it could be one group of founder but only single from the person you don't like.

00:37:15:02 - 00:37:39:13
Unknown
I I've seen sincere entrepreneurs. How do they go about it. They take. Yeah. It could be like 30,000 per month or something like that. But in their money they put it up for this startup venture. So other. Okay. Yeah. Like you know. So it's not for his or her survival. Right. Right. So that's one thing. So this is a program where you get money for about 12 months month on month of fellowship kind of thing, and you put it into your venture.

00:37:39:14 - 00:38:12:14
Unknown
Venture, or you can use it for your own sustenance also. Right. And this comes in to the needy, program. It comes and a needy is the whole basically hierarchy of grants. Right. Second stage is your prototype grant, which is priceless needy, needy prayers. And that is essentially for prototyping. And it was designed during a time where support for ecosystem and support for hardware startup was completely missing.

00:38:12:17 - 00:38:42:06
Unknown
So unless and until your physical so physical product company or hardware startup, they require larger money. There is a long gestation period. Yeah. So and then VC money is not so easily available until you reach certain milestones. Right. Demonstrate certain things. And that's the gap that needed press was aiming to feeling how much money it's in olden days it used to be about ten lakhs.

00:38:42:06 - 00:39:18:12
Unknown
Now they are reconsidering and giving 2020 lakhs. Okay. And again this is for a startup team. Can they be student? It has to be like. It has to be for the startup team, not individual student. Now. And now that I think, creating a venture was necessary. So this is needed. Yes. And once you have a stable now like, you know, more than stable venture, once you have formed venture and you have a business proposition, that's the time you go for seed fund or seed grind.

00:39:18:14 - 00:39:45:11
Unknown
And that is the seed support seed support system. And this would be this will not be a free grant. It would be a like, you know, grant to be used either as a convertible okay. As an investment essentially. And you have to part with the equity, with incubator set inclusions inclusion. So either equity or convertible instrument or something like that, it could be any, like, you know, the range would be from 30 lakh to two crore for two series alone.

00:39:45:16 - 00:40:09:05
Unknown
No. To see it exceptionally, it was typically one seed. Okay. So we have for incubate the grant itself is so small. So on an average incubator would put in about, 50 lakhs or so. So we have air, we have prayers and we have seed support system. Yeah. That's underneath the. Okay. Yeah. Is it an accelerator and then mini accelerator.

00:40:09:05 - 00:40:37:05
Unknown
But it's more of an acceleration program then like you know like grant support, direct grants up to the entrepreneur. So you have incubation, you have accelerator. So the accelerator was is it? And all of this is available through the incubation centers? Yes. And the prayers also, they would give one time grant to setup the prayers, experimental facility.

00:40:37:07 - 00:41:06:00
Unknown
So lab facility. So electronics lab, mechanical lab, bio because it is focused on hardware, I need a physical product. So like, know even like, for example, a chemical profile company or chemistry profile company that may not be hardware. But there is a physical product that they can also access it. Okay. Right. So is that all the schemes under DST.

00:41:06:02 - 00:41:37:24
Unknown
Yes DST yes. What is the next next segment. Next department is mighty mighty, mighty has the same I think this g need created template for everyone. So if you look at it, mighty also is the similar hierarchy. How to hardware support and search support EIA prototype support and seed support then? Yeah I say I think that is one that I have I don't know talking to Mr. Mittal or Doctor Sudesh.

00:41:38:01 - 00:42:14:15
Unknown
There is story around how did he programs came out after DBA you know, all of you were called to. Yes, I. Yes. I mean that, we were not allowed to go. That was needy. Mr. Mittal would have told you. Yeah, I know some of us about ten. Know 1015 from incubator community. And, like then DST representative and some of the, advisors, we were taken to isolated place in, in a hotel which was on the island kind of thing.

00:42:14:17 - 00:42:38:04
Unknown
And there is nothing you step out of the hotel and there is water, so you can't go anywhere. Yeah. You know, there was no mainland out there. So two days we did only this, brainstorming and intended they came out okay. Yes. And that became a template for most government grant. So, you know, let's talk about meeting maybe for electronics,

00:42:38:06 - 00:43:14:12
Unknown
Yeah. So meeting has died, scheme died. Yeah. So this died scheme is basically same hierarchy AIA prototype and suits about. Okay. Yeah. Then they also have noun somebody accelerator. It does the genesis for tier two and tier three term. So they have the similar elements right. Yes. Then third talk about Startup India again based on the same tier structure.

00:43:14:14 - 00:43:51:20
Unknown
Like. Yeah. And the prototype and seed support. Okay. And amount also remains the same. Then there is another thing which is actually domain specific. So biotech right. So biotech has like biometric. It has total five vertical which is devices diagnostics drug delivery industry biology and I think Glen Balaji or something like that. So there are 4 or 5 verticals out there that can qualify.

00:43:51:24 - 00:44:19:19
Unknown
Okay. They also have so they don't have exactly. Yeah. But they have something called you will support, which is what student. And they get so student fellowship for like yep. Under you grant or something. You are fellowship or something like that. I am not fully familiar, but that's their phone. Okay. Specifically targeted towards student but in biometric vertical.

00:44:19:19 - 00:44:44:09
Unknown
What happens is that the the funding requirement is much larger. You can't develop a device like, you know, a created this experimental over the period of. Yeah, exactly. Multiple experiment and like drug delivery processes and those kind of thing. You can't have just like, you know, ten lakhs or something, you require much more. So they're big run ya bio ignition grant.

00:44:44:09 - 00:45:08:09
Unknown
Yeah. That is equivalent to needy prayers or like that. But it's 50 lakhs that they give. Yeah. And I think this big was a game changer in this particular vertical right. Bio domain. Yeah. Because no one was funding you talk about health kid 15 years back was looking at health care. Now it's a much sought out vertical for investors also.

00:45:08:11 - 00:45:41:22
Unknown
So that is being done by like, Vijay. So it really triggered, you know, so much interest in this space and so many applications and so many new ideas it generated. Yeah. So it, it it has impacted the entire this particular ecosystem. So is there then they used to have even like biotech and seed okay. Which is 30 like and 50 like support.

00:45:41:24 - 00:46:03:13
Unknown
So biotech was it. Now they are basically re reshaping entire then funding support then all those thing. But these are the three elements. Lipan seed was the name of single scheme or leap is different. So it was a funding support equity seed support. But one was basically seed was 30 legs and leap was something more, something like that.

00:46:03:17 - 00:46:46:07
Unknown
So it was a basically difference of amount. Amount. Okay. Yeah. So that is a then you have either index. Yeah. Yeah I index guns for different problems. And within index. So the way it works is that they get different problem from three service forces. Okay. Army, Navy, air force. Okay. And, based on this three problem, they they they open the challenge and then applicants get selected and they get Grant.

00:46:46:09 - 00:47:09:06
Unknown
That is also significant. I think, like now it's like one crore, 50, like one crore kind of thing. I maybe off the in number because these numbers also give you you only mention that government is putting lots of money. So this number also is getting basically change over the period of time. But so it is basically for defense.

00:47:09:08 - 00:47:38:10
Unknown
But within the index there is a open problem open segment also. So they also end up funding space tech and those kind of startups also that okay. So and then the next programs will be much more aggressive because ARM is involved you know. Yeah. And it's the need of the hour right now. Is it so see most government programs like they have their like, you know, government processes and all those stuff.

00:47:38:10 - 00:48:12:07
Unknown
Right? So there is a delay. So it's a related to what is fast and what is late. Right. So in context with government processes these grants are fast but in context with VC money it is not fast enough. I'll give you the contrast because very fresh in my memory from recent conversation, Richard said the 40 20,000 overall in five years we funded 41 is a process processes you apply within 21 days, we would decide whether to invest or.

00:48:12:07 - 00:48:37:11
Unknown
No. No. Okay. And on 21st or 22nd, the offer has to be table to the startup. And within this time three conversations have happened. Validation has happened. Investment. What has happened after 21st day. Within 15 days, money will be in the bank account. Right? Okay. So, so, you know, talking about relative. Yeah, exactly. The space can be really slow compared to this, right?

00:48:37:13 - 00:49:08:12
Unknown
It's it's slow, but like, again, we have to appreciate and understand is that, that within that bureaucratic process also they are trying to maximize the effort and pushing the money out. Also, they provide support at a early stage. So they are really filling the critical gap. That second thing is that like, they have a layered, review process.

00:49:08:12 - 00:49:27:12
Unknown
The that is one filtration, then second review and final review, depending on which ground you go through. So that's where I think some of the grants basically the application to approval, it takes a while.

00:49:27:14 - 00:49:31:05
Unknown
Very good. Startups don't go to incubators

00:49:31:07 - 00:49:49:23
Unknown
because they might. Yeah, I think that's that's the thing I would say startups who are able to raise early money startup who has this short product time, they perhaps don't require incubator support.

00:49:50:00 - 00:50:15:24
Unknown
Okay, right. But very good startup like cancer therapy. It has come out of saying okay, right. So very good is subjective. We need to define it. So I think startup which has a shorter like gestation period, gestation period in terms of product as well as revenue cycle, they need not go to incubator startup who can make money from money.

00:50:16:04 - 00:50:40:22
Unknown
They need not go to incubator. But we have also seen startups who have raised money. They'll come to also because they require product development support, the one that ecosystem exists. Right. So like so okay, so we were listing the incubation program, the funding programs grant program. So we were at Idex. Okay. Then startup I mentioned the Startup India.

00:50:40:22 - 00:51:09:03
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I mentioned DST. We've done with the DST, maybe Startup India and Idex biotech also biotech also. Yeah, right. Medicals. Okay, so these are the prominent grants. Now MSM may also have certain support. I'm not fully familiar of every aspect of MSM is grant support. But they also used to give support. I think they also give for lab for income.

00:51:09:03 - 00:51:38:24
Unknown
Thank you. Yeah. And then affiliation with MSM gives them different kind of, you know, advantages also like MSM that Aadhaar card or whatever they call it could they'll gather. Right. So that gives them different kind of advantage also. So MSM is there then some of the support not directly from government grant, like for example, ministry.

00:51:39:01 - 00:52:09:04
Unknown
And so this oil is used. Yeah. So ministry didn't start the direct funding program, but every oil is used like ONGC, Indian oil, and like all those that come under the same ministry, they were given a mandate to support startup. Okay. So ONGC has startup program. Oil India is a startup program like, scootering.

00:52:09:06 - 00:52:32:14
Unknown
I think Scooter India or engineer or something like that. Again, it's a PSU startup, but all that come under the same ministry. I think they have a startup and they do it through the CSR program. No, they they they are supposed to create the startup fund, not necessarily only successful oil. ONGC had allocated certain startup funding.

00:52:32:14 - 00:53:00:18
Unknown
So investment fund, investment fund. Yeah. Oil India, IOC, OIC Oil India Corporation right. Or Indian Oil Corporation IOC. So they have not only funding program but they also validate that product. So adopt that. Yeah. Okay. So those guys so they would Indian IOC they will focus on you know petroleum and right Hpcl also a startup funding program.

00:53:00:20 - 00:53:29:00
Unknown
So this ministry didn't directly investment. They mandated that RPS used to create a startup program. But these programs are not related through incubation centers. They contact probably for startups. But money is not being channel. No, they are not channels. Sort a startup okay. Arts are incubator. Incubator. Yeah. But they many of them actually partner with, incubators because they require that pipeline from incubators.

00:53:29:04 - 00:53:54:12
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. And not only that, these are validated. Incubators have done due diligence. They have invested. So risk is also low around there. Right. So and so they partner with okay. So I'll use you guys comes to mind right now there are state government program. So if you go each state government have their own program. Gujarat has like an indirect Gujarat.

00:53:54:12 - 00:54:22:15
Unknown
They have massive support for student entrepreneur AI hub is doing something like that. So I'm sure Himachal Pradesh has those program. Maharashtra government has you go to Tamil Nadu, you go to Karnataka. They have every state has a startup mission. No, exactly. Every state. I think there are 36 states that startup mission. So there.

00:54:22:17 - 00:54:48:23
Unknown
Okay. There's also a lot of CSR money can. So now I was to come there. Then there was another thing that government did was that like in this was in like 20 1413, 14. So again, the same thing, what we were talking about the that we were taken out and then, you know, there was a brainstorming and internally this scheme came out similarly.

00:54:49:00 - 00:55:23:22
Unknown
There was one brainstorming with Secretary of DST. Okay. And like all incubator managers were invited, we were about 3040. Incubator managers out there and like there were freaking idea the go beyond grant program what government can do. And that's when CSR came in. So some of us like give input that. How do you incentivize corporates to engage with startup okay.

00:55:23:24 - 00:55:52:18
Unknown
So now like you know CSR entrepreneurship and incubation is one of the permitted activity. And and this is addict. Yeah. So I see so this is how like facilitation. So at the direct funding level at a capacity level. So incubator and lab support and all those things, it's a capacity level. Then startup direct engagement with startup which is various grants and all those two.

00:55:52:23 - 00:56:16:22
Unknown
Yeah. And third is that at the policy level, policy level. Wonderful. So these are the you know, I later had conversations with Prasad Menon doctor series as well. And I think one of the things as you know, the government being part of the innovation ecosystem we celebrate is how we have contributed. Yeah, I say we you know, that he had to include myself in it only last few years.

00:56:16:22 - 00:56:37:14
Unknown
But to all of you, the stalwarts you've been working for the last 20 years, 25 years, 30 years, and many, you know, ecosystem leaders from early on. I haven't even met them yet. Probably the science and technology, entrepreneurship talks, which were started. Right. I met, doctor Jack, the live ones, and.

00:56:37:16 - 00:57:10:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, but some of those people, but they kind of, you know, policy advocacy, that, you, all of you have been able to do and change, you know, the CSR act to include incubation as a permissible activity and designing all these programs. I think that's a great contribution. And of course, I did say we are slow, relatively, but I think there is, much needed role which incubation centers are playing to, you know, bring out student startups or, you know, other startups as well.

00:57:11:00 - 00:57:32:19
Unknown
And for, you know, investors, venture capitalist, who may have a very small acceptance rate, but the top of the funnel is coming from the incubation centers quite a bit. What do you. Well, I'm shifting to incubation centers a little bigger. What do you want to change further in the incubation ecosystem? What are some areas which you are looking at now?

00:57:32:21 - 00:57:44:04
Unknown
I think, one is that incubation or incubation centers, like, you know, in current form,

00:57:44:06 - 00:58:02:08
Unknown
The, the basic structure I think now needs to evolve. And I will tell you. So let's step back 20 years, okay. Yeah. Like, you know, 20 years back, what was our ecosystem like early 2000?

00:58:02:10 - 00:58:05:22
Unknown
Entrepreneurship was non-existent in our country.

00:58:05:22 - 00:58:19:09
Unknown
Yeah. We had very few institutional investors and many were actually private equity. I see as a venture and Kotak Venture funding, those kind of thing.

00:58:19:12 - 00:58:59:21
Unknown
Okay. First Angel network in India, which was Indian Angel network, I think it started in 2007 or so. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And we are talking about early 2000. Yeah. So incubation associate entrepreneurship was pretty much missing. That's what DST started this. So DST had it from 80 mid-eighties. They had science and technology path bugs. But those were also then becoming like more of a white elephant, large physical infrastructure, but no new economy, kind of new venture.

00:58:59:21 - 00:59:26:10
Unknown
So updates would take up those spaces. Do they had any but new ventures? Right, right. And mechanical workshopping, those kind of thing, which was an old school kind of thing. And lots of things were redundant out there. So that's where they evolved from. Step two, incubation mode acetylene. But value addition in terms of mentoring knowledge, access to resources and those kind of things.

00:59:26:12 - 01:00:01:21
Unknown
So incubation. So DST initiated this incubator program in like early 20 2013 capital city supported So that was the milieu that like you know if entrepreneurship in those days environment was missing. So if entrepreneurship has to come probably knowledge centers that the places that are technologies that are innovations that are students and you can encourage them to take up the entrepreneurship.

01:00:02:01 - 01:00:32:16
Unknown
So provide support, take away early risk by giving physical, infrastructure at a low cost experimental facility, again at a low cost. So that's how it all started. I'm sorry I lost the thought. What you're talking about. You know how from 1980s, first we had white elephants in. No, no, no. Your question. My question was, you know, what do you want to change,

01:00:32:18 - 01:00:58:18
Unknown
How do we need to evolve? I come to that. Yeah. So the the the whole purpose was to enable entrepreneurship in, like, you know, certain like, knowledge, certain environment, and then herbs, knowledge, herbs. And also they are supposed to create ecosystem. So bring mentors bring invest. Yeah. So kind of incubator become a melting pot and lots of stakeholder get basically you know connected to them.

01:00:58:18 - 01:01:28:01
Unknown
That was a thing. Now if you really look at it investment is available. So you're not necessarily required incubator to access investor. There are other forums and you can reach out to investors. Corporates are also having their own innovation program. So entrepreneurs can also like you know for them reaching corporate not really easy, but it is not impossible to reach out them.

01:01:28:01 - 01:02:03:19
Unknown
Earlier there was a completely, you know, wall out there. Right. So those environment like you know, the the environment has changed which needed incubators support. Yeah. Now what is needing is basically is more of a collaborative and on me. Okay. So like for example you are in Himachal Pradesh, you have certain facilities for your student and local entrepreneur when they get started in you enable that, give them like, you know, starting support.

01:02:04:00 - 01:02:07:17
Unknown
Yeah. But

01:02:07:19 - 01:02:36:23
Unknown
Like when they have to reach to larger market, they have to reach to and they want access to larger ecosystem, maybe like Mumbai. I'm Darbar Delhi, right. Those guys are South Bangalore, Chennai. These are the places for them to go. Yeah. So collaboration between this another example of collaboration like, you know there are certain. So deep tech startup requires certain serious facilities.

01:02:36:23 - 01:03:03:14
Unknown
Right, right. And replicating facility across all the incubators. Yeah. Not wise. Not even by mid like, you know, because like, I may have 1 or 2 entrepreneurs inside the facility of 100 crore. Right. But like, one facility is safer with C camp another than facility with same third facility with like a bit knowledge park facility with like you know I.T Delhi.

01:03:03:16 - 01:03:29:07
Unknown
And then whether we can pull the data pool the resources, pull the knowledge like you know mentors and entrepreneur and whether we can basically, you know, leverage collectively the challenge out there. As I said earlier also that how do you derive economic water out of it. Right. That's that's one had to figure out. That's where the collaboration came.

01:03:29:07 - 01:03:55:22
Unknown
But I think you require more of collaboration. You require more of information sharing. Data sharing. Yeah. That's how incubators will have to evolve. So shared resources I think the one of the points of conflict, is who claims the credit that is happening right now. Right now also. Right. Who? Yeah. Who claims the credit for the success of the startup or the ecosystem.

01:03:55:22 - 01:04:22:02
Unknown
Right. Yeah. I think this happens, everyone. I think success has too many fathers. But you know, failure. Yeah. None. So, that that is the problem even right now. So right now I have given the air. So that's my you have given Priya, sir. That's the. And someone has given funding. I think everyone has to basically stake the claim in the proportion.

01:04:22:02 - 01:05:05:08
Unknown
Okay. This venture has started gender, but they have to appreciate that without prototype grant or without investor money, entrepreneur would not have basically gone further. And it takes a village to raise a child. It's a very good thing I'm doing. Everyone claims the success, I think here. Also, when you say that I'm I'm going to basically we are going to collaborate like I did Monday and I am Nabard for example, they are going to collaborate on certain thing you can legitimately claim, okay, this is coming collective effort of this to I think, you know, when we are sitting here, we are I mean, today I have access to you.

01:05:05:10 - 01:05:25:22
Unknown
I can talk to you and you will answer my question. Okay. When I started in 2016, you were on the panel. I remember I came to sign, made the presentation for Demonic Atlas. And, you know, today, wherever I go, I make a presentation on how we build the ecosystem. And I tell them how we were told we don't expect anything.

01:05:25:22 - 01:05:49:20
Unknown
I remember categorically Mr. Mitchell said what he said, you know, in the Mitchell I don't know. And what can we expect where there is a pipeline, you only have students and new institutional investor. You don't expect mature. Okay. But maybe in the name of inclusivity will start. Okay. So, you know, talking to people like yourselves, saying, how do I build ecosystem?

01:05:49:20 - 01:06:23:05
Unknown
It was so difficult early on, I could only meet you maybe in the selection process, as I remember then our selection panel, I had, from, PhD, the, the Valley. Right. So people like, you know, who've been leading the ecosystem, I don't have access to you. How do I get to understand today for incubation managers, incubation heads, and especially faculty in charge, is this this philosophy of how are you people, you know, devising this mechanism, designing this philosophy of now sharing resources.

01:06:23:07 - 01:06:47:09
Unknown
It takes a village to raise a child. How do we inject this in, you know, deep down into the regional ecosystems? This is my question. I think that's why perhaps this, there is the kind of association first thing will help if you become member, you you'll have access to all the incubator members. Right. And you can try to, figure out that which is my best partner.

01:06:47:09 - 01:07:20:07
Unknown
Where is my synergy and all the things the olden days, also suffering, like everyone was trying to establish themselves, and then maybe attention to collaboration was not there. Because first I have to prove myself right. That was the thing. But things have changed quite a bit. I think most incubators are now talking about like, collaboration. I think Madras also has some, you know, some 10,000, thousand partners or something like that, that initiative.

01:07:20:09 - 01:07:43:14
Unknown
Right. Bombay is setting its own fund. So Synergy Mumbai is setting its own fund. So they will also have to collaborate with many incubator. So so Stem pipeline strong pipeline. And I'm noticing I'm, I'm nabard like very early on they realize we don't have tech support. Incubation model won't work. So they drifted towards investment driven incubation model.

01:07:43:15 - 01:08:16:02
Unknown
Oh then they started collaborating. So one has to know lots of information. Is there as an incubator manager also there's lots of information. Is there data platform that are association data events and you can start mapping. Where is my you know, strong synergies line. So you need not go to like you know only for shine. But for example tier two town like right.

01:08:16:04 - 01:08:47:16
Unknown
Well which Bala is running or sorry going to step. They are running incubators that I'm going doing very good job. But in June I did Bhubaneswar. These are all tier two examples right now Himalayan Himalayan track like my team. And you all of them are doing very good job. So absolutely. Tier three down. Can you collaborate with VAT Vellore.

01:08:47:18 - 01:09:23:21
Unknown
You need not go to I.T Madras or come to I.T Mumbai. Right. But what they are doing it's more relatable out there. Right. And create a synergy out there and they have like vat load has all this government program that we talk about leveraging. Start partnering with them and then go step further around that. So probably in olden days like in the there could be some resistance or indifference towards collaboration.

01:09:24:01 - 01:09:49:20
Unknown
It's not there now. Because there are everyone is trying to figure out and there are mature incubator. They have figured out their strength, their positioning. And then they also require partners to go further. Right. And one of the mandate for them is also they have to how much ecosystem impact they are doing. So in that context also they have to actually buy.

01:09:50:01 - 01:10:11:21
Unknown
So so we are moving towards a shared resource model where, the philosophy of, you know, village, it takes a village to raise a child. And fascinated by that, it's a very nice way of, bringing the incubation centers together, saying, yeah, let's come together, celebrate all of us. This is that incubated. That is very nice. We are thinking about it.

01:10:11:21 - 01:10:15:16
Unknown
So we are shifting to to this and also with virtual incubation becoming.

01:10:15:16 - 01:10:37:19
Unknown
The thing, you know, with the startup being anywhere. I was talking to a startup who is going to Hyderabad for a pitch, and then next is in Kerala and then is in Odisha, and he's raised all three grants. I don't know whether they eventually will get all three once all three incubators, but everything. Yeah, I but you know, startups are leveraging this.

01:10:37:24 - 01:11:27:20
Unknown
Oh, are we somewhere spoiling them? Are we making them travel too much? Are we throwing too much at them? You know, have you seen some spillover effects of it? Yeah. I think, like, spoiling them. No, I don't think so. Spoiling them. But, Dara. So there is a funding available at a grant level. Right. And I have seen some of the incubators rather than, you know, doing their own capacity building, going in their backyard, creating pipeline, influencing potential entrepreneurs to then they perhaps piggyback on existing invested grantees.

01:11:27:22 - 01:12:09:08
Unknown
And that's how they reduce the workload workload and also like risk. Yeah. So I in that context I think that's not a very good practice. Like why government has given you support is to influence your area region or your area of strength. So what is area of strain. For example if you are a agri university, if you have been given a grant for that, you create a pipeline of agri entrepreneur rather than like, you know, go investing in existing entrepreneur.

01:12:09:10 - 01:12:37:15
Unknown
So your area of strength is agri. So you create agri entrepreneur support innovation in agri sector. Create more APIs in those sector, influence more students to take up entrepreneurship in those sector. Instead, if you are just going to go invest with more money to same in same entrepreneur.

01:12:37:17 - 01:12:39:00
Unknown
I think that's where I,

01:12:39:00 - 01:12:42:05
Unknown
I would feel that that focus is incorrect.

01:12:42:07 - 01:13:26:15
Unknown
So that's not very well utilized. Grant. So in that case, I think the support that was given is not intended for that purpose. Right. But it's good to support. I, I feel that at a prototype grant, you have to create a large base. It's like, you know, same that 40,000 to 4ft 41. Once you create a large, you know, base of innovators, entrepreneurs and, researchers, good entrepreneurs will come out of it nets and more than that, like, you know, number quality will come out.

01:13:26:17 - 01:13:39:12
Unknown
You you will have more, the larger pool to select the quality. That's what I feel that it is needed at the at that level, you really need large number to be supporting

01:13:39:12 - 01:13:40:18
Unknown
I think interesting thing for me

01:13:40:21 - 01:13:48:17
Unknown
That was we took and I team and we thought it was great that incubators for startups from across the country are coming.

01:13:48:19 - 01:14:11:09
Unknown
What do you think? Really? An incubation center should strengthen itself regionally. Regionally, in the local ecosystem. Focus more. Yeah. We did have about 60% to 20% of the startups from within the northern region, five states that are dead. But that's a key area for incubation heads to take away these really focus, you know, being regional or the area or tech that you are focusing on.

01:14:11:11 - 01:14:53:00
Unknown
Things like, let's say I'm I'm also on this, advisory council or expert council of mothers, innovation initiative, mothers or Innovation society and that these supported deliberately supported tier three kind of places for, for incubation center. So potential for success were very limited. They knew about it when they did it. One of the incubator from absolutely tier three down is the manager was very entrepreneur.

01:14:53:00 - 01:15:17:19
Unknown
And so I think in incubation also the manager has to be very entrepreneur. He connected with local businessman. Like the then small businessman like you know you talk about family of his startup is one of their asset class. This language they don't understand okay. You're doing business in this trading and this trading. In this trading. Why don't you support some of the entrepreneur?

01:15:17:19 - 01:15:47:13
Unknown
If they make big then like, you know you will get good return. That's how he created a good network of angel investors. So like they didn't know even give me a tangent. Investors when local businessmen they actually yeah inspired them in their own language and they actually engaged them with the incubator as well. So that local ecosystem, not only in context with the startup, but if you have money, also try to leverage that money as well.

01:15:47:14 - 01:16:19:14
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Are we so you know, around money funding, incubation centers are becoming disbursing agencies more and more. I mean from forgetting what is incubation. You know, if you map funding with your incubation activity, then it's very effective. But, see, government, same thing like government is putting lots of money. They're not directly investing. Right. So for them, incubators are conduits.

01:16:19:16 - 01:16:59:24
Unknown
Obviously incubators will become like, you know, they're not funding agency, but like, yeah, they are implement. Channel. Absolutely. Absolutely. Fundamentally like what we have to do is that you have entrepreneurs. We look around good entrepreneurs and same thing. You have to create pipeline, bring them incubator give it incubator affiliation knowledge ecosystem mentoring. Help them in like in business plan connect them with investors expert industries and also give them funding support.

01:17:00:01 - 01:17:23:19
Unknown
That's the most efficient use of money again and go back to the same thing. Many incubator managers, instead of doing that they piggyback on existing success. So, you know, on from both the size one startup goes to incubator to get money earlier and this is what is attracting them. Maybe after they arrive there, they realize, hey, okay, money is fine.

01:17:23:19 - 01:17:45:18
Unknown
But I also need mentoring, holding support, access, etc.. But also from the incubation standpoint, when I have money to disburse. We hosted several programs. They had like 15 different programs or different ministries. By the way, we missed Ideal Innovation Mission and that entire list of funding, salaries. And then, it was a part of that. Yeah.

01:17:45:20 - 01:18:08:08
Unknown
So we'll come to that. Yeah. But I'm saying now when we had all those programs before that, our concept was that I demanded will be a high tech incubator. We will talk to the startup, listen to them, you know, tailored support. That is really what is the incubation. And as soon as we and we started with money from the host institution, I mean, they gave, you know, one and a half legs for every startup.

01:18:08:08 - 01:18:30:03
Unknown
And we were only, we only had DBA scheme. Oh, no barriers, no, nothing like so we had 66, six startups, who were given one and a half lakh rupees and a half lakh rupees. And over the first two years that is it. And we knew startups won't come. So we just showed the money, they came. And then we had, you know, three months of on campus engagement with you.

01:18:30:05 - 01:18:57:00
Unknown
And then they stayed beyond the money and, then cut to post Covid around Covid and then several funding schemes. We have now have that same small team, their daily routine goes into finding a startup because you have target to meet when dispersing the money agreements. Tracking the fund utilization. The bills are not correct. Chartered accountants, you know, certificate, all of that.

01:18:57:00 - 01:19:18:04
Unknown
Right. Lying around it. Right. So we became a funding agency, so much involved in operations, we forgot incubation at some point. No, no, you are right. I think, the so when you use public money, lots of thing comes, lots of string. Come along with that, right. Yeah. But the reporting they've done and they ask that every day.

01:19:18:04 - 01:19:24:23
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah yeah I think honestly like,

01:19:25:00 - 01:19:34:11
Unknown
The there's some hyper activity out there and that needs to be basically, tapered down.

01:19:34:13 - 01:19:40:23
Unknown
Entrepreneurship is not an overnight journey. The impact will be visible in five years and seven years.

01:19:41:00 - 01:19:59:04
Unknown
So I think funding agencies also have to understand that every quarter you seeking data, seeking data to the extent of utilization. And like, you know, evidences towards the UCSC and like audited account.

01:19:59:06 - 01:20:26:15
Unknown
It's okay. Like the whole purpose of grant becomes to show me the impact, show me the impact. I think it loses its worth because impact is visible after five years or seven years. We we took like first IPO came after 1516 years of shine. Right now second IPO and we have now whole line lineup. It's a sign of the IPO.

01:20:26:17 - 01:20:55:18
Unknown
But ten years like you know even for startup in initial tiniest startup from product to revenue. That cycle used to be 3 to 4 years. Now that cycle has gone down to 18 months. But it cannot come down to quarterly. Okay, 18 months, two years or something like that. So it's not easy to show impacting. It's like R&D.

01:20:55:18 - 01:21:19:10
Unknown
You have to invest for a long time. Incubation is that kind of in the it's an infrastructure investment for entrepreneurship. And it cannot be basically you create a road and very first year you can't earn very first year you cannot have 30,000 vehicle pass through it. Yeah. Only when the that region develops you will see more and more vehicle going through that.

01:21:19:10 - 01:21:52:06
Unknown
Right. And those road become basically part of developing that region. The impact is visible after like you know, five years, seven years. So start I think realization funding agencies have to help. And I think that does put unnecessarily unnecessarily load on the incubator manage. And it takes a bandwidth that needs to be corrected. I, I agree with you on that.

01:21:52:09 - 01:22:25:17
Unknown
But I think like when you have processes and system in place, you introduce your like, you know, in process technology, then it becomes very fast. So I know like in Sindh we, we manage that. We had one team only focusing on this thing in rest of the team had a free bandwidth. That same thing, if you have a small team, just have one resource person managing all this grant reporting and all those things, then rest of them basically focus on entrepreneurship in this thing.

01:22:25:17 - 01:22:49:11
Unknown
I did. Tech for. Incubation is one thing that we need to figure out. I think individually different incubation centers have been developing their own ERPs. Everyone functions differently, but can be these at a place where we have some common resource and it is happening. There is something called Shanti Connect that is I have partner with them so they are looking at basically they have all kind of features.

01:22:49:11 - 01:23:14:24
Unknown
So first thing they are planning basically all shared resources information. Can you bring on the platform so everyone sees it. What we spoke about, did they also have facilitation like that. Saying also has its own like you know Sanjay and this thing then managing data and ecosystem and all those things, all that. And the same is also implementing ERP, its own ERP now for data management.

01:23:14:24 - 01:23:41:21
Unknown
And on those two, another thing which pushes me as a intuition head, right, is that five years and the grant is over. So financial sustainability start worrying about it from day one. Okay. A new incubation center. You know, it takes two and a half years. Half the time goes into understanding what is startup, what is incubator. Then we started in Himachal.

01:23:41:23 - 01:24:04:23
Unknown
I would get calls. We started in 2016. State government didn't have a policy. In 20 1718 they came out with the policy. Then few more incubators started. They would call me and then say, what is an incubator? To whom you start? Guy okay, so I'm saying, a half of these five years, we barely understand what is incubation find.

01:24:05:00 - 01:24:24:03
Unknown
And then at the end of fifth year, the grant is over. And also in between, you know, the tranches in which money comes, you know, the the cycle time cycle is not matching audit process is this that you end up only getting half of the money, which is sanctioned to you because you are not able to utilize it because you didn't know how?

01:24:24:05 - 01:24:42:05
Unknown
And then at the end, the fifth grant is gone. So, you know, we are struggling in the incubation center for our own survival. And then we take this grant program, that grant program, we start running boot camps, we start charging fees and all. Are we beating, you know, aren't we missing the point? No, I think you are Spartan.

01:24:42:07 - 01:25:20:05
Unknown
Wouldn't the issue here is that that many, many incubators started because Grant was available? Yeah. Not the device. Okay. We want to support entrepreneurship. So the foundation that should have been created to set up an incubator which was missing. And what is foundation? So like for example, like if you are an academic incubator, have you created your have you then capacity building you the like you know, easily academic program kind of activity.

01:25:20:05 - 01:25:55:24
Unknown
So there is already awareness. There's already some activities on entrepreneurship that creates your pipeline. Second aspect within the institution, do you have conducive IP policy or faculty engagement policy or student entrepreneurship policy or access to resource. All those things. So this is actually is the foundation which will create generate good pipeline of students. Now like you said, like you know, I demanded you give micro grants.

01:25:56:02 - 01:26:24:02
Unknown
I have seen several other institutions are also giving micro grant to their students. Yeah. So designer and so now when I have this foundation I have quality of pipeline, which means when I start formal incubation program, I already have entrepreneurs like right now many incubators have just because there is a grant available, you get started and we will figure this out.

01:26:24:04 - 01:26:54:04
Unknown
It doesn't happen that way. Your first perhaps exit will come in 7 to 8 years. First revenue from startup will come maybe after 2 or 3 years if you have relevant cost model. So if you don't think on day one when you are writing a proposal after five years, how am I going to sustain? Yeah, if you don't have that, you are going to struggle.

01:26:54:04 - 01:27:24:07
Unknown
So fundamentally you need to. It's like startup business plan. Yeah. You need to have your like you know, revenue channel, sustainability thing, all those things. When you are writing incubation proposal, the reality is reality is so different. I was given a proposal which was already submitted by someone. See, in the host institution, there is no incubator. One of the faculty members is told there is a call for proposals.

01:27:24:07 - 01:27:45:02
Unknown
And probably I'm thinking I will get a sponsor project for myself, right. Which is a good thing for an academic. But once you get the project, you realize this is a different animal. No, I didn't think of that way. Yeah. So that that was around. That is what I'm trying to say. That institutions should avoid this, that grant is available and this is a proposal.

01:27:45:02 - 01:28:07:22
Unknown
And you write them like you rather create the capacity building and then go and writing intubation proposal. And that's why the now DST has realized that. So they created this Atiba equivalent structure like yeah. So they give support only up to 2 or 3 years. And that's your capacity building. And then you come back and write a full fledged implementation.

01:28:07:23 - 01:28:46:01
Unknown
Similarly I think like under emoji or like like affiliated institution should have ACS. And so I yeah, yeah. So this II is, are supposed to do that kind of capacity building. And once you mature in that activity, you go and write proposals. Fundamentally, I think, when you write the proposal, you should have your economic, plan, which is like how much you are going to generate revenue, how we are you are going to generate revenue.

01:28:46:03 - 01:29:10:18
Unknown
What is my capacity as an incubator? What would be my cost model? Cost? Like, you know, those kind of numbers if you don't have early on some business plan for incubator. It's a it's not proposal grant proposal. You have to write your own business plan. Then I think and that's what we it happened to sign from very first day of sign.

01:29:10:21 - 01:29:38:11
Unknown
Our board was talking about sustainability. And that's the reason our, our cost model was very very well structure. Yeah. Which became again template. Same was the first two I started. Yeah. Equity base cost money I think. So just like you know successful entrepreneurs being outliers sign is an outlier. And the large chunk of incubation centers you know their confusions are so different.

01:29:38:13 - 01:29:56:15
Unknown
You know, for example, we are an academic institution. Now, you saying set up a company are we have to do that. We have to go to our board. We have to go to our registrar. We have to go to our lawyer. And what is this new animal. Right. What's the. That's what I said. The institute's own mechanism has to be in place.

01:29:56:17 - 01:30:23:16
Unknown
And now, not only I intimately was the first, but now like, you know, even like universities, some of the private universities, and they have set up that model. So any university wanting to do it, look at those model how they did it. Yeah. In fact I t Bombay like so there's lots of incubation capacity. Capacity creation programs.

01:30:23:16 - 01:30:53:07
Unknown
Right. You're in these wanting to start. Yeah. And many government want to do that. Government department want to do it in, in IIT Bombay I was talking to some of the entrepreneurship faculty members we wanted to do for institution leadership, right. This capacity building program that when youth want to host an incubator, how do you want to. So we don't want to use we want a faculty member.

01:30:53:09 - 01:31:01:18
Unknown
Absolutely. Yeah. So we weren't wanting to do that. Have I told you or have you heard the elephant and rabbit story?

01:31:01:20 - 01:31:18:04
Unknown
How? Host institution is like a big elephant. Yeah. Incubator is a small rabbit. They are tired. And in the beginning, you know, both are confused. Right? And, you know, the finance, officer, the dean of the finance is saying, hey, bring everything here. We know. What is the section need company, I don't care, this is a department.

01:31:18:04 - 01:31:51:23
Unknown
This is a puzzle. So we so, you know, launching article and Sankalp means school of entrepreneurship to Bombay, and we were wanting to do it. Then we, like, you know, they were asking, like we were brainstorming that. How do we make it different from others? Why, if someone would come here while ISMA is running this government until innovation is running and all these agencies are running, why they would come soon, we will focus only on institutes leadership, not incubator leadership.

01:31:52:00 - 01:32:13:06
Unknown
Yeah. Before you want to start an incubator, what needs to be done? That's the program we should structure. And that's what the institution leadership, what one thing that we have to take care of in that program, whenever it is designed, is that the institution's leadership also moves. You know, they have ten year incubation. Faculty judges have been years.

01:32:13:06 - 01:32:34:09
Unknown
Names have tenure. Directors have tenure. So we must build I know, an intervention or a program which creates that philosophy or ingrain into this system of the host institution. Absolutely right. The idea of what is an incubation center and why is it important, and with what philosophy we have to treat it like completely different from how we academic.

01:32:34:09 - 01:33:06:20
Unknown
You support. You are very right, actually. You know, changing leaders. So, institutions leadership is very transient leadership, especially public institution like yours and others may be private. It may not be such a big problem. Whereas this activity has to continue without much interruption. So of course evolution is needed and you require lots of external view or new new viewpoints at every stage of your, incubation milestones.

01:33:06:22 - 01:33:42:06
Unknown
But it cannot be something which totally cuts, stops, or completely distract, right? So to do that, I think you need to institutionalize the processes which is independent of leadership. And you need to do lots of documentation. Right. So here is something that I will tell you again like so it looks like a sign is an outlier. Not 20 years back when we started we didn't know what the incubation was normal thing in India.

01:33:42:08 - 01:34:13:05
Unknown
So first thing we our mentoring we realized was that you cannot add up someone else's model. You have to create socio economic. In those days India, there was no incubation activities. So more most of the models were coming from the west, but socio economic contexts were very, very different. You have to create your own thing. And the way we started, we started basically documenting.

01:34:13:05 - 01:34:41:23
Unknown
So our, our cost model, our equity model. How do you insulate like institution from any liability from section eight company. That's right. Yeah. Very very important worry for them. Yeah. That's because first time you are entering you have never done commercial and commercial like even in our case like some random entrepreneur put some 90 like cigar case and all this stuff.

01:34:41:23 - 01:35:10:06
Unknown
Right. Okay. How do you do that. All those thing I think you need to document. So we had created a proper incubation, process like and, and to do things as a playbook. Yeah. Now when this was in place and then there was like you know very clear the incubator faculty in charge is not in executive position.

01:35:10:08 - 01:35:39:01
Unknown
It's more of a linkage between two and intake, like, you know, taking care of each other's interest and facilitation between two incubator and university. But that, that, that like enough faculty in charge is not an executive position. Executive position is only wasted. So the executive power is only vested with incubation team. So it insulated the whole thing, right.

01:35:39:03 - 01:36:20:23
Unknown
Second thing is that our board member that is that I. I to Bombay director is not final authority as a director, but he is a final authority as a chairman, ex-officio chairman of the board. So no decision is dictated directly from the institution. It is it has to go through the board. That's an institutionalization. So I think once you institutionalized within also within the host institution, you have to create a department which is basically, you know, documenting and institutionalizing its own process.

01:36:21:04 - 01:36:53:16
Unknown
Then, like all these changes and all those thing, it is like, you know, becoming a normal running thing rather than like, you know, disrupting things that there is, you know, you mentioned the executive agency cleanly segregating that, you know, where does the decision making power lie? Where is the authority but continues? There continues to be a power tussle, within the academic institutions where, you know, you have, faculty and judges and you have CEO, top position in the incubator.

01:36:53:20 - 01:37:24:14
Unknown
So that's why the Financial Authority still rests with the faculty in charge. That's that's a problem. And that's actually, again, the training program that we wanted to do, we wanted to basically address this aspect. It has to be vested with the incubator manager, in fact, like financial power. So in in Sindh, I, as a CEO or current CEO has authority to sign any check.

01:37:24:16 - 01:37:46:06
Unknown
But that could be done. So you will have a again like you know graded authorization up to a certain number. Certain people up to certain number two, two member. Yeah. And beyond certain number. Faculty in charge jointly with you. But it is never with the faculty in charge. Standalone. Yeah. I would have a, you know. Yeah.

01:37:46:06 - 01:38:09:07
Unknown
Some board has the board has no board has actually granted that power to incubation team. We had created that authorization menu as the the source of this tension, which is that, you know, this is a five year project. Let's say it was a three year project. No. So, ITB for example, is a three year project. TBA from DSD was a five year project.

01:38:09:09 - 01:38:34:00
Unknown
Now you getting you don't know what is incubation when we were starting back then. Now there is a little more awareness. But you know, I assume that delta is not going to be significant even in the in the tier three, tier two institutions. And in a five year project, you are bringing in someone on a one year contract, even at the leadership position, top leadership position, right CEO of the now in one year you don't know what is incubation.

01:38:34:00 - 01:39:02:07
Unknown
Probably they have also right like you haven't seen you for one year okay. Even if you extend let's say you have you have a mechanism right. You know so when you start an incubator whether great grant is worth three year. Your objective to start in incubation and run is not for three years. You are leveraging this grant to set up an incubator and go beyond three years.

01:39:02:09 - 01:39:27:12
Unknown
So your CEO is not in for the grant. Your CEO is for the center who will leverage this grant, strengthen the center and run further. So you c you may give a contractual position, but it's not for one year. You give them for a longer period. But there is a termination clause that if you don't perform, you are not the.

01:39:27:12 - 01:39:55:12
Unknown
So it's not a project position. So fundamentally it's a wrong, wrong thing to do. Right. And this is coming from, you know, their own realities for them after five years what happens. We don't know. So this is where the capacity building program, when you are not starting an incubator incubation center to support startup or non entrepreneurship program here the message is very clear.

01:39:55:12 - 01:40:23:02
Unknown
You're starting an incubation center because a grant is available in four five years. I will run this. No, this is what we talk about. Startup. This is exactly you are leveraging grant to reach certain milestone. Then you are raising further funding or revenue. Once you read that milestone, same thing is also applicable to the incubation key. You are leveraging this grant to jumpstart your activity.

01:40:23:04 - 01:40:47:00
Unknown
You have to come on. You are free to then continue there. And that's why you require like when you require startup as a founder team, you also require here founding member teams. Yeah. So that cannot be on contractual position. So this is where you know this understanding. I mean they can be on contractual position but they cannot be for one year.

01:40:47:02 - 01:41:13:12
Unknown
Right. If you look at the profile of CEO of an incubation center in a deity deity, location linked in that academic institution very, very drastically different from a CEO profile of somebody in a leading incubation center. Right. And the level of understanding or the confidence that they could have in this person that they are recruiting. All of that is leading to, you know, let us try it out.

01:41:13:12 - 01:41:42:04
Unknown
What will happen? We don't know what will happen. Whether this person will stay in a remote area, they may leave. We can create some incentives. But, you know, we should not, finally get stuck with someone who doesn't work very nicely with this, right? All of these, presumptions are perceptions, are sort of, blocking are, the way should we we actually should be looking at incubation, a long term, initiative rather than a five year project.

01:41:42:10 - 01:42:12:19
Unknown
Right. Having someone stable because we want to do it longer versus, hey, government is given us a project. Let's do it. Yeah. So we are talking this in context with basically operational autonomy Day today. Right now, even if that is the case, there are checks and balances you can create. What faculty in charge cannot be effectively, you know, taking away that operational autonomy and the way you do it.

01:42:12:19 - 01:42:45:15
Unknown
So for example, let's take a case of it in my life. Yeah, you realize it's a remote place. You may not find local incubator managers, you may get it from outsiders. And you don't know, given the geography, whether incubator center will sustain as well as, your incubator manager will stay for a long time. So I find it very risky to give him total financial autonomy.

01:42:45:17 - 01:43:12:05
Unknown
Operational autonomy. I can give. But this is the thing. You create a check that okay, up to a certain amount. CEO can do. But beyond that, CEO jointly with faculty in church. But do you say CEO has no autonomy? That doesn't work. In fact, this is what we insisted. We saw that in a you said that we miss at a yeah.

01:43:12:07 - 01:43:41:01
Unknown
Now utter let me just step back go back to the initial conversation on Grant to say Atal has it one consolidated grant within which they allow certain support for startups. Yes. They don't have this standalone support for startup. That's the reason I didn't mention like they have one incubation grant. And within that some of the support like that give up to 30 like or 50 like.

01:43:41:05 - 01:44:19:22
Unknown
So that's the thing. But in Atal Innovation Centers we saw that that during review process that most of the powers were resting with host institutes representative and not executive. Got it people. And we insisted that like, they have to now basically you create checks and balance, but they have to delegate operational financial autonomy to CEO. Right.

01:44:20:02 - 01:44:44:18
Unknown
And in fact, the Dell innovation mission, they took a stand that we will not give further disbursement and during the power is given to that big they say you first, give us a name to you and then we will give the grant. That is one aspect. First, find the representative. Yeah, yeah, senior representative, CEO or India. Then we will give them second ten.

01:44:44:19 - 01:45:16:08
Unknown
Is that autonomy Financial. Do they have check signing authority. Then we give the grant in that you can have a joint signature. Yeah. But you cannot have that. He like you know CEO runs all the operations. CEO is responsible for all success business and all the thing success of this thing. Incubation center. But I don't give you all the operational decision.

01:45:16:15 - 01:45:47:22
Unknown
I will take all the financial decision I will take. That cannot happen. So you cannot tell, you know, you cannot expect that they are responsible for the success of the incubator. Without delegation of authority, it cannot happen. And Atal Innovation did it. What do you have? Ticks and balances. And I said that like, you know, like checks you have necessary second signatory which may be your your faculty inject them.

01:45:48:03 - 01:46:14:00
Unknown
Let's talk about governance of multiple incubation programs. What I mean by that is I tell innovation there are grants for startups, same incubation center. You can have multiple grants to disburse. But then there is another component of grant, which is given to incubation center for its operations. For example, DBA is one innovation mission is one.

01:46:14:02 - 01:46:45:01
Unknown
Biotech also gives grant to set up incubator MSM. It does the same. Now I have one incubation center within this. Can I take again Atal innovation mission also biotech. Do I have to have separate teams within the same section it do I set up different section? It's I think see the it is depending unlike in a granting agencies, I would not basically advise to create new section eight company for every grant.

01:46:45:04 - 01:47:19:18
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. And that was one of the reasons basically we didn't go for certain grant because they insisted, okay. Like, section eight companies. Ya within that you create vertical like in a, like any industry, you have many verticals here. You have separate team, separate vertical. So back office support can come from the same team like lead team could be different like some biotech like you do require a team which has that background.

01:47:19:18 - 01:47:56:08
Unknown
Biomedical. Correct. Those kind of background technology. Also you do require team which has like electronics background or whatever. So you have separate business team. Back office can be same. And then you have a team which interact or interfaces with agency for all data team. That structure we put it at sign in which work variable. Okay. So yeah, coming to your question as a one incubator center, yes.

01:47:56:08 - 01:48:24:15
Unknown
You can take multiple grant if the agency is willing to give it. And then biotech is okay with that. MIT is okay with that. MSM is okay with that. But Aim wanted a separate entity. So without creating a separate entity, you cannot have a grant of in. And so it's added several other. So even for different funding agencies, if they have to impact, you know, would they.

01:48:24:16 - 01:48:49:14
Unknown
So it could should be started DBA. Okay. We are giving the money to you know DST would also want to state claim. Again I'm bringing that credit sharing idea from incubation centers. No funding agencies. Right. In the DBA a startup goes and then they get biotech funding. Okay. Probably that's the reason for funding existing setup a new incubator now so that I have a clean way of reporting to the government.

01:48:49:14 - 01:49:15:08
Unknown
What has been the mission's impact. Right. No. So the thing is that see if there are vertical specific submitter. So clearly like you know, that there are clear ways to show that entrepreneur have use facility of biotech. There is a funding that has gone from DST. Yeah. So they are not same startup using two separate support but at a different level.

01:49:15:12 - 01:49:54:11
Unknown
Okay. Not not like not biotech seed support or late support as well as DST seed support. Right. So facility is my rec facility and a like funding from DST. So you show the same startup under both for different support mechanism. It's okay. But if the team is like, you know using facility of biotech, supported facility, as well as leader seed support, you clearly show this on the, like in a biotech and it does not go under DST.

01:49:54:13 - 01:50:22:22
Unknown
And that mapping, you have to do it from very beginning even you have to a filter them out. I have multiple grant support. For example if there is a biotech they would put them under leap rather than doing this DST seed. Then there is a clear like genome mapping done under biotech support requirement. So that you start doing from very beginning what happen.

01:50:22:24 - 01:50:52:05
Unknown
Things go basically, confused or complex. When you have too much support, then you don't have your own basically strategy. How do you, like segregate, not segregating. You have too much support from government grant support and all, but you don't have a strategy to source your pipeline, support them under certain, you know, doubling up. And then you keep doubling.

01:50:52:07 - 01:51:14:14
Unknown
the leadership team of the incubation center I was talking to, which again yesterday, There is a fund at this time to learn the basics of how do you land a food. There is a team, there is a fund from LPC. They have a pool of, let's say ₹100. Then there is a team. The team can spend, say, 10 to ₹15 over the period of the fund.

01:51:14:16 - 01:51:37:01
Unknown
They can use that to pace out of these expenses, etc., etc. but whenever there is an exit, the profit that you make that can be distributed to the team of the fund that is. But the team is not allowed to invest in the startup. And she cited some Sebi guidelines so that I don't have conflict of interest.

01:51:37:03 - 01:51:59:09
Unknown
Where are we in incubation? Setup the CEO of the incubator, the error, the incubation center. They the team. It has come up in some conversations, with investing community, with stakeholders. How do we more incentivize the team. Right. Can we also let them invest a little bit so that they have stake in the game. Then you retain them longer and they are invested more in startups growth.

01:51:59:11 - 01:52:27:21
Unknown
In fact, we we heard a very clear conflict of interest policy that incubation team will not invest in its own incubator. You can invest in other startup, but you cannot invest in India, which is a public document. We were the first to came out with that. So I, I don't have any personal stake in any of the company saying had phenomenal company, I could have invested in them.

01:52:27:23 - 01:52:56:14
Unknown
I don't have any personal stake. I think we follow the same. It's actually self-imposed discipline and governance. Okay. Like, because there are no rules. Yeah. But, I, in the end that then like, because there are no rules. I know there could be potential for lots of market practices, but ideally, incubation managers also should follow the same thing because there's a huge conflict of interest.

01:52:56:19 - 01:53:11:15
Unknown
There. Yeah. You are managing public money. I put money in. I use that public money for that company. As an incubator manager. There is a huge conflict of interest.

01:53:11:17 - 01:53:38:22
Unknown
Yeah. I think, in the private space versus public space, yes. Conflicts will, I mean, I, you know, I would, I would say here this is public money in VC. There are LP moneys. Yeah. So when you are managing third parties money, you should avoid your, your final personal financial interest getting, you know, conflicted with that.

01:53:38:24 - 01:54:02:00
Unknown
The governance of the incubation center from the top. It's a section eight company. There is a board of directors, which is legally sort of obligated to make sure a company does the way it should run. Then there is an executive team of CEO managers and so on. What other mechanism does the board need around them? For example, DBA scheme, DSA recommends you have a board of governors.

01:54:02:02 - 01:54:27:02
Unknown
Many incubators have board of advisors. Can you mention some mechanisms for me? For me, like, there's one board of governance. So if your section eight committees, board of directors, if you are society, it is board of governors. That's a legal the society. So we we had governing board governing. Yeah. So these are the term. But we used to trick that.

01:54:27:02 - 01:55:01:05
Unknown
We always say it's a board member. So for us it's a governing board member. Like, you know, conceptually it's the same concept. Right. So that's a statutory board today it remains a date. All other programs specific. You create a separate monitoring group, monitoring body. Progress monitoring body. Okay. So like, unsigned board, like we, we we had like half we used to have half host institutions.

01:55:01:05 - 01:55:40:06
Unknown
Representative, half external representative. Okay. When we got DST grant. So for TBI as well as Center of Excellence, we had I basically just non-legal non regulatory body which was basically progress monitoring body which had representative from DST, representative from functional team. And 1 or 2 board member is a. So it's like a subcommittee. Yeah okay. Similarly if you have Berec then you create similar monitoring group.

01:55:40:08 - 01:56:12:18
Unknown
And then so Dexa basically just like a progress monitoring committee kind of thing. Now you can call them as a advisory committee or you call them governance committee or whatever it is, but that's not a statutory board. So you don't have to bloat your board with all this representation. Yeah. On your statutory more statutory board remains basically go, like external internal members.

01:56:12:20 - 01:56:33:03
Unknown
And then you have program specific that go into progress monitoring committee. Okay. So since it's a section eight company, a company must have a board of directors who, you know, yes, they have to do their KYC, get a Da in numbers. And legally they are responsible for this function functioning. Now, you can't operate on your own.

01:56:33:03 - 01:56:55:08
Unknown
You will need a lot of help. So you get other people, either from outside or inside the institute, and they help you go on specific program of the incubation center, either by advising you or helping you monitor through the expertise. Yeah. So something see first thing is that you win the board. Also we have external member. Right. Because they seek real commercial expertise.

01:56:55:08 - 01:57:28:08
Unknown
They bring on the table host institute bring different kind of expertise right. And then external member brings like you know commercial those kind of expertise. Right. So Nexus statutory board of director what we are talking about like you know now when you have other program you require different kind of expertise and sometimes even granting agency specify what what should be the constituent of that advisory committee.

01:57:28:08 - 01:57:55:15
Unknown
Okay. Right. So you bring that. So that is again combination of host functional team and certain areas of expertise. So if it is seat support then like you know invest then financial expertise if it is incubation support then like industry representation again investor representation entrepreneur those kind of thing. So you required external expertise at both level.

01:57:55:17 - 01:58:23:14
Unknown
But what I am trying to say that one has statutory regulatory power, other has like, you know, more of a program specific funding. Got it. So yeah. Understood. There can be several fluid bodies, group of individuals based on their expertise and based on what you need. Yeah. You can, you know, bottle their expertise and have their inputs value, you know the innovations of the incubation center and take some decisions.

01:58:23:16 - 01:58:44:18
Unknown
Okay. There are other external people who are involved which are called mentors. Today we have and the role of mentors, of course, it's it's widely, acknowledged to the extent that everyone wants to become a mentor.

01:58:44:20 - 01:59:28:12
Unknown
We have many people who declare that they are mentors. Please tell, you know, share with us what is your understanding of mentoring? What is your mentoring philosophy? How did you, you know, structure that in sign and you know, what are some lessons? So I think honestly for me mentoring is mentor is someone who have gone through basically certain, you know, experience, be it as an industry representative, industry executive, be it as an entrepreneur, be as a funder, be it as a regulatory expert or whatever.

01:59:28:14 - 01:59:51:10
Unknown
I think the time when we started, mentoring was more of a giving back, devoid of any commercial expectation that that was the concept. So for me, when I talk about mentor, it's more to give back.

01:59:51:12 - 02:00:28:13
Unknown
But, you know, request seriousness and, you know, do want to basically compensate for the effort and validation that mentor has done. So we also encourage startup to formalize that. Okay. And this formalization could be in terms of either equity or a monthly payout or annual payout or whatever it is. Right. Like of late, I seen many professional consultant positioning themselves as manager.

02:00:28:13 - 02:01:09:12
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. That actually consultant did not mentor okay. Yeah. And nothing wrong because startup require that expertise and you do require consulting you know. But then there is a very clear expectation of some commercial benefit. Yeah. Commercial benefit benefit. Right. Versus I really want to help. Okay. Yeah. I think that's where the, a certain subtle line is maintained is someone who really want to help stacked up.

02:01:09:14 - 02:01:44:06
Unknown
And he or she basically gained some advantages out of it. But primary purpose is to help startup. So like then you go beyond even if I'm getting certain benefits and this is the purpose I'm joining it. I go beyond my mandate in helping a company. And it is more of voluntarily given by the startup like versus those mentors who would seek certain commercial, relation.

02:01:44:06 - 02:01:56:00
Unknown
Then only I will say so. They are more of a consultant than the couple of other words. Yeah. Advisors and coaches.

02:01:56:02 - 02:02:20:18
Unknown
You see any distinction. Is it a need to distinguish them? I really like you. You can play with fine setting. It's the intention that counts. Right. Okay. What is the thing coaches is more of like a group coach or like executive coach or whatever. But clearly there is a commercial element out then. Yeah. And it's a reciprocal relations.

02:02:20:19 - 02:02:50:06
Unknown
Right. Mutually benefiting relations. Advisor. Mentor. That's something. Would I say they really want to help? I have learned certain things or I have already reached a certain level, and I want to help the company that could be like, you know, some relation. And then I always feel that there has to be some economic relationship between two, because that will sustain sincerity on both the side, because mentor is gaining something.

02:02:50:06 - 02:03:15:11
Unknown
And like if I have equity, then I have to justify that equity, right. And even company would say that I have given equity a better leverage. That relation. So it has to be a justifiable this, I definitely encourage that. There has to be some commercial element out there. So that none of you take each other for granted.

02:03:15:12 - 02:04:04:02
Unknown
Right. But the intent is very different here. I'm actually making my, my professional career out of being a mentor. I think then it's a purely consulting commercial. So it's intention that that counts. While you're doing it. Even mentors end up having equity stake in these startups. But, that matures over a period of time. Like, how have you seen mentors become you know, more permanent contributors to, to startups, you know, regularly meeting, and so on that, you know, so that's what can those relationships I've seen that they are becoming more serious and very long term consulting the day, like, company doesn't have money to pay the relationship and stocks.

02:04:04:02 - 02:04:32:07
Unknown
So how do startups, you know, find mentors in an incubation setting? How do I bring in people who can be mentors, who express interest? I identify people, have small domains, but organically when someone is starting, it's in like, you know, both inbound, outbound both you you go in network, you find a good person, bring them that other people who come, you also engage with them for over a period of time.

02:04:32:07 - 02:05:00:00
Unknown
And same thing if you are comfortable, the more and more you recommend them, a certain relation just goes off because intentions are very different. So you draw the line your your, your own entrepreneur can also become a mentor. Right. Right. So so you you did see you know, there is a line which we've understood, you know, purely commercial, primarily commercial interest versus primarily giving back, but also has a commercial element which, you know, evolves.

02:05:00:02 - 02:05:21:05
Unknown
But when even when you have qualified down the line now you have mentors, how do you decide who will be an effective mentor? Is it a way to I mean, yeah, so basically the during the engagement period, you have seen the value addition, the quality of engagement, the length of engagement, and you rely more and more on them.

02:05:21:05 - 02:05:55:22
Unknown
Right? Like so we had like so in when mentoring is you know, Beauden, it's a like there's a short term mentoring which can also happen in group what you call coaching. Right. Okay. So as an incubator I undertake certain training program workshops and all those things where incubator based startup don't pay and then they conduct like, you know, one is to 10 or 1 is to 30 kind of sessions.

02:05:56:02 - 02:06:34:02
Unknown
So that is one mindset. Another is need be mass, which is like, I need support only to correct funding. So okay, I'll help you to get funding. And once this is done, that engagement gets over. Oh, do I need a support only up to product development? Once that tech thing is done, then engagement ends, right? So it's a need based, 30s ad hoc, which means like, whenever I need an I need a sounding board, I come to you.

02:06:34:03 - 02:07:09:18
Unknown
Okay? But there is no serious engagement or formal engagement out there, right? So that is for this, like over a period of cycle, strategic mentoring, like growth, clear certain milestones. So that is maybe longest month year to year kind of thing. So it's a different kind of mending one to many. 1 to 1. Yeah. Sometimes like the I'm seeing mentors who are only working with founders team.

02:07:09:20 - 02:07:34:00
Unknown
For evolving them into next question. Yeah. Like kind of thing you mentioned you know formalizing the mentoring. So what is the right way of formalizing I mean is there documentation. Do you have to orient the mentors then. In fact they had a mentor policy which will again be made it public very early on, like in,

02:07:34:02 - 02:07:55:23
Unknown
So it must be that on sense with a website. Okay. We would say that you engage with a mentor for a certain period of time, mentoring mentee without a need, no intervention from, intervention in it, like we see how is engagement going and all those things, but we don't push. Yeah. You cannot impose. Mentor. That would never work.

02:07:55:24 - 02:08:30:04
Unknown
You don't impose. But do you set the meeting. Do you orchestrated or do you introduce them? We introduce some couple of that sometimes we like, you know, facilitate. Sometimes they just take on their own. Right. Like, so, so the policy would be like the, the, the, the, the advice to both of them would be there that, like you, you support the, sorry, you engage with each other for sometimes six months or so and see how the engagement is going.

02:08:30:06 - 02:09:02:05
Unknown
And if both of them find mutual what they need. Okay, okay. I can really help on. Okay, I can take this. That's the time you formalize now, this formalization, we would say that for every year of engagement, keep aside maybe half a percent. To 1% equity or something like that. Half a percent. 1% has evolved 2.2. 5%, 2.5% or something like that.

02:09:02:07 - 02:09:38:14
Unknown
Yeah. So it's a vesting. Yeah. Or maybe if you want to give basically success based. So like if mentor like from product launch to maybe five kilos of revenue, if you can help me then give certain percentage of revenue share. It could be that also it could be quarterly or annual payout. Also. And then you create one document listing out expectations delivery.

02:09:38:16 - 02:10:04:12
Unknown
And then how will you compensate that. So like you know reminder formalization happens. So it's there on science website also. Yeah. What are the qualities of a good mentor from a startup standpoint? The thinking, you know, was a good mentor for me and everyone who is senior to them. They realize they're looking at them and saying, this guy is going to help me.

02:10:04:14 - 02:10:27:12
Unknown
But you have observed several people go through this process interpersonally at an individual level. What are the characteristics of a mentor? So of course, the area for which the mentoring is sought for and whether mentor is able to deliver or not? That's of course, one thing, but I think I would say, do I, I would say the quality of good mentoring.

02:10:27:12 - 02:10:54:05
Unknown
Who is willing to help him beyond what is mandated for. Okay. Yeah. Willingness to go beyond work with the team, invest in the team. Not necessarily in terms of like, you know, money, but effort time. And you are available. Yeah. As in when you are not basically, you know, clocking every hours or accounting every hour skill gap. I was supposed to give you only this much time in now, right?

02:10:54:07 - 02:11:23:23
Unknown
My time is over. I'm not available. These are some of the quality and you can see and see also the impact of his or her input. How basically is helping the team right. Yeah. Incubation is sector is evolving. We have many more incubators now. Government is invested. Several department states it is a state startup ranking as well.

02:11:24:00 - 02:11:44:20
Unknown
Now we as a sector should you call us as an industry sector. You know, that's a question as well. We have a lot of individuals who are putting their careers. In the suit I joined, I had people who, when they interviewed them, already influenced them to come and join the incubation center. Like, what am I going to do five years down the line?

02:11:44:22 - 02:11:50:14
Unknown
Where will I go from here? One of them is now inside.

02:11:50:16 - 02:12:15:24
Unknown
But I'm saying go. Do we know what these young people are thinking? You are also part of this bar. You source and knowledge center, right? Do we, as an association, do we need to understand what these young people are thinking? How are they experiencing and perceiving the incubation sector? Are we incentivizing them? Is it commercially rewarding?

02:12:16:01 - 02:12:40:03
Unknown
For them, learning why is rewarding for them, and what are their career trajectories? Yeah. Have you thought about this? Only, again, I go back to your initial statement that incubation incubator manager, that what I will do after five years. You are not joining the center for five years. You are not setting up a center for five years.

02:12:40:05 - 02:13:01:14
Unknown
And you are not hiring someone for five years, and so is the case for the incubator manager that I am not looking at that center. Yeah. For five years. I'm looking at that center which is basically starting now and want to grow further. And do I have something to contribute. If that is the case then you have a career path of that.

02:13:01:16 - 02:13:25:13
Unknown
Then you can like, you know, go from tier 3 to 3, incubator center to tier one and so on and so forth. You can become yourself, become an entrepreneur. Yes, there are incubator, teams who have gone in VC funds also, like, you know, they have taken investment as a career path and all those things and there are career path out there.

02:13:25:13 - 02:14:08:03
Unknown
It's not that you are going to like enhancement. Depends. Like any other industry vertical. What you do now will shape your career after five years or ten years. So how you are managing this incubation center, how you are evolving, like how it has, what achievement it has? Yeah. You know, God under your leadership, how you have shaped that incubation center, you define your trajectory after 5 or 10 years, like I'm out of incubate, you know, two years, but I am still like to not as a career, but as a like it.

02:14:08:05 - 02:14:39:02
Unknown
Has it been, since, you know, incubators are funded from government grants, there is limited amount of money and so on. Are we paying? You know, intellectual capacity enough? I mean, is it commercially rewarding for them or do we need to review that? Do we need to know? So there is a, limitation? In fact, when I joined incubator, like in, let me put this with that, like, I, I joined the incubator after 20 years of my corporate career.

02:14:39:03 - 02:15:04:21
Unknown
Right. And I donated one tenth of my salary, but my, my, my, motivation to join incubator was very different. Was this like. And I already had a corporate career, and I didn't have any ambition to build a career for others. The impact was like initially, who what part of this link how do we create? This is something which is impactful.

02:15:05:02 - 02:15:43:03
Unknown
And then like, you know, replicable and all those things. So then so we achieved, salary is an issue out there. Definitely. But we have seen the model smart incubator managers have seen, you know, created certain sources where they have got good compensation for them. So those models have to be explored. Like, for example, one incubator manager, like, you know, reach out to the alumni and alumni, you know, funded his salary, part of the salary.

02:15:43:05 - 02:15:48:01
Unknown
So those kind of thing basically model has to be basically it's built.

02:15:48:03 - 02:16:16:12
Unknown
Why don't you become an entrepreneur? What if I didn't have the trait I go with going like, no, yeah, I think that I had completely different motivation to getting into it, not build something. I just focusing on this thing, creating a very successful, impactful model. And yeah, I don't know, I probably that mindset to never thought about it.

02:16:16:12 - 02:16:41:09
Unknown
Let me put this way. Never thought about okay. Yeah, yeah. So, one idea which you have heard in the last several years, maybe more recently, one idea which is going to make it big, one space, one category, one industry. Well, I think, there's several IBM. Which ones that you confused amongst which one? I'm which there are several.

02:16:41:11 - 02:17:15:06
Unknown
What are the top two. Three where you have a you see, even like, you know, in entrepreneurship and industry, it's a cyclical thing. Right. So currently like healthcare space these are the big big thing. But for me more than the like in one particular sector I think fundamentally strong technology, disruptive. The way things are happening, making things basically more accessible easier.

02:17:15:08 - 02:17:46:09
Unknown
These are the things are going to like you know make very big. So beat cancer therapy beat space check with the automotive sector like me clean tech but fundamentally strong technology different technology not not incremental innovation. These are going to make big things. Yeah. Is it a new category of incubators that we need to create in the next five years or something?

02:17:46:09 - 02:18:18:01
Unknown
Absolutely. Disruptive needs to happen in the incubation centers. One thing. So again, new instead of new category evolution of incubator. They have to look at the. Like, you know, technology and startup evolution in the next 5 to 7 years because all those like where the ecosystem is already supporting those startups are not going to come to them.

02:18:18:03 - 02:18:56:08
Unknown
Low hanging fruit, like those kind of startups are not going to come. Then the startup that requires solid technology support, funding support, mentoring support and technology mentoring support. These are the startups going to come. So incubators also have to basically gear themselves up to provide those kind of support. So for example, some of the incubators, why they are doing that, because they have been basically evolving along with the need of the startup and evolving along with the evolution of the startup verticals.

02:18:56:09 - 02:19:22:21
Unknown
Yeah, right. So like we we are able to support startup under healthcare, under automotive, under clean tech, like under defense. So incubators also have evolved to that level. So like rather than like completely new category of incubator. They will also have to evolve. One of the one of the students, one of the team members with me wanted me to ask this question to you.

02:19:22:23 - 02:19:46:14
Unknown
Okay, don't miss this. What would happen is, is if we take sign and put it in Monday and we take a minute to get this and put it in Bombay. May not work, may not work now. So, I mean like, again, the same thing, you know, it has to have its own socio economic regional context the way you have.

02:19:46:15 - 02:20:25:18
Unknown
You want your incubator keeping limitation of your geography. And you came out with a very good model out there. That model, perhaps the expectations of startups coming to shine are not that expectation of startups coming to sign are very different. And you just give three micro grant of one and half last three months. Acceleration support may not work there, but it works very well in your context because it gives a very jump starting support to certain kind of startup.

02:20:25:20 - 02:20:53:22
Unknown
Same thing if I come and sign comes to Monday and then they have like, you know, certain expectation of maturity of startup from the region, know there's no matching in expectation and delivery. Okay. I don't know whether I'm going to absolute excerpt. Eventually I remember to ask that question. Otherwise you know, it will be difficult for me to go back.

02:20:53:22 - 02:21:21:18
Unknown
But there is a good synergy out there, right? You can say like startup that you are already mentoring under your program and they can become a very good pipeline for sign. Yeah. And similarly, some of the startups that come to sign but sign may not be able to accept because of certain limitation can refer to. Is it so there is a good synergy now there.

02:21:21:18 - 02:21:58:20
Unknown
But replacing moment like your message for the students, one message that you want to give to students. Yeah. So I think one message for the student if you are, if they are really wanting to start, it's not because of availability of fund or valuation or like in a high stack, something where you have spotted certain serious gap and working on fundamental problem, using some good tech or fundamental data.

02:21:58:22 - 02:22:25:06
Unknown
And you want to solve customer's, you know, problem out there. Look at those aspect rather than like, you know, all this other distracting aspect because Grant is available algo because valuation is very high. Algo because my colleague has made a very big I want to go for startup. Don't go for one message for the universities.

02:22:25:08 - 02:23:03:01
Unknown
Support entrepreneurship program for the sake of entrepreneurship. Not again. Like, it gives me an IRF ranking, but I, I really want to bring the talent, which is entrepreneurial talent. They may become entrepreneur or not, but wherever they will go, they will basically have an entrepreneurial culture. So that's the thing and habit. I have a fundamental clarity that entrepreneurship is not.

02:23:03:03 - 02:23:25:24
Unknown
It's different from academics and research. So it has to have its own space in terms of financial and, operational autonomy. One message for the incubation community. Do impact meaningful impact. One message for the Espa leadership team.

02:23:26:01 - 02:23:55:09
Unknown
Same thing they impact for your member in a meaningful manner, right? What has been your experience? In this conversation, what is your message for the guest project? There is a demo did about 1520 students powering all of this. And there are, you know, 500 plus students who are ambassadors. There are 25 plus faculty fellows with guests, and there's several other invisible players which are, you know, catalyzing all of

02:23:55:09 - 02:23:55:15
Unknown
this.

02:23:55:15 - 02:23:58:09
Unknown
What is your message to the guests initiative?

02:23:58:11 - 02:24:21:17
Unknown
I think, I guess initiative one is that because they're focusing in this young community and it's that's where the like, you know, next future entrepreneurship will come from, like bring out as many stories as possible, which are relatable story not funding story not unicorn story impact story.

02:24:21:23 - 02:24:28:04
Unknown
So you can also have small startup but doing phenomenal impact.

02:24:28:06 - 02:24:57:02
Unknown
Yeah. Bring out as many as different story which are relatable story because everyone is not going to make it one and make a unicorn. Everyone is not going to raise fund. But people can have good entrepreneurs, can have good business, impactful business. Yeah. So those kind of stories that is needed, click on it. That brings me, to the end of this conversation.

02:24:57:04 - 02:25:25:00
Unknown
Not in just the beginning. Today, for the very first time after, you know, ten long years of me being in the ecosystem and you've been there forever. I go to now personally to extensively, question you, ask you and they did assemble questions, I believe. I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable. Hopefully we didn't touch any sensitive nerves for the ecosystem, but I also, hope that, we raised the right questions.

02:25:25:00 - 02:26:00:04
Unknown
We discussed the right questions, especially with now at this bar, we are trying to, bring forth more resources and knowledge to help the incubation community. Conversations like these will bring more transparency, will bring, you know, transfer of knowledge from the ecosystem leaders to the young incubation managers, who earlier didn't have access. Now, of course, we are much more accessible with the information technology, with the digital space, but that the it was more difficult to, you know, get through because also we were, you know, all of you were busy building the other incubation centers.

02:26:00:06 - 02:26:27:06
Unknown
Now some of you have moved out of the operations and you are more accessible. Yeah. So thank you so much. Minimum, for having me, making time for this, interaction. So that is the so I think this is, one conversation which has been very close to my heart because having spent, invested time, in the incubation center, I grappled with these questions.

02:26:27:06 - 02:26:50:03
Unknown
And I am sure today, that our new incubation centers were asking these questions to me and all of them answering those questions, and also for the students who are asking these questions, I'm answering those. But I do need to validate with you whether I'm answering them right or whether I'm missing certain aspects, certain angles, which I must bring into those conversations.

02:26:50:05 - 02:27:22:02
Unknown
So this is easily the playbook for startups. One, and this is a playbook for the incubation centers to understand how incubation centers should be philosophizing. Thought about planned, strategized and executed. So I hope that this conversation will bring a lot of light to the incubation and student entrepreneurship. Community and ethics. And, guest India will continue to bring such, dialogs, such conversations to benefit the ecosystem.

02:27:22:04 - 02:27:36:14
Unknown
Thank you, thank you, thank you. It was really, really good to be here and conversing with you. You didn't make me uncomfortable at all. I thought there's nothing discomforting. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

02:27:36:14 - 02:27:54:22
Unknown
And my inhibitions. In the beginning, I really was feeling blank. Hasn't happened. I have a 20. I have had 20 conversations. I'm still fumbling, but, you did answer, in a longest manner, which made me give me time to think.

02:27:54:22 - 02:28:15:00
Unknown
Thank you for doing that. But thank you so much, ma'am. I was waiting for this conversation for the last couple of months. Q I hope you found the answers. Absolutely. I think it helps me write those three chapters, which I have. But, you know, there are several things I will add to those. And, there are many more such things to come.

02:28:15:02 - 02:28:40:04
Unknown
And hopefully this becomes at ease. So as far I didn't give you some community to learn from. Berkeley. Espanola. Espanola. Santa. Yes, for this episode we can actually have is by as a button a perfect. And we'll say that this is a contribution of by Fred of the Knowledge Center. Sure. Very happy. Yes I know Zarate. Yes I that then doing another conversation like absolutely telling Prasad you know I need to talk to doctor series in detail.

02:28:40:04 - 02:28:59:14
Unknown
You pointing ma'am, doctor Jack Delay and couple of other names. I don't even know because they're, you know, I probably was five years old when they were doing incubation. And Mr. Mitchell. Yes. Initially he had, in the very first round, he said yes, he would come right in some health issues who has not had tissue.

02:28:59:15 - 02:29:23:07
Unknown
And I couldn't access him after that. Right. But all of this knowledge we need to preserve in this bar, yes, we have to preserve, we have to document. One is tech for our own thing, in our own, like, community. But another thing is that there are lots of emerging, startup ecosystem for them. Also. This is very important.

02:29:23:07 - 02:29:46:05
Unknown
Yeah. You know, the the top of the mind survey of the CEOs or incubation managers needing to know what they are looking at, the industry reports of several things for incubation. I think is my knowledge center's top agenda should be how do we really make incubation as a solid industry sector then we have that shared pool of knowledge.

02:29:46:05 - 02:30:28:19
Unknown
Yeah. That's it. So thing is that it is small like it has always been a very small organization because it also depends on the, incubation community number. And then like, there is a notion that we have direct access to government why we require, SBA, the thing about, association is that, even if you are a small if I go into this deep that I need this support or this policy changes, I'm talking as a sign.

02:30:28:21 - 02:31:01:06
Unknown
Yeah. And he comes as a personal kinda, like, you know, interest. But if I, SBA goes then is nice talking on behalf of entire community. Right. So even if it is small it needs to be strengthened. Then it has done like equity holding by incubator which was not permissible as a section eight, 12, eight under Income Tax Act, it is not permissible to hold equity or make investment.

02:31:01:08 - 02:31:21:13
Unknown
But it's my work with government. GST is my work with government. CSR is my work with government. So I think we need that. If I say that allow me to hold equity, then it becomes an individual request. So that's it. It's amazing. Yeah okay great. Thank you.