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NEW YOUTUBE SOURCE: Excerpts from the transcript of the video "IIT Bombay to founding Edgistify | ft. Kamal Kishore Kumawat | SES-2 | GUESSS India" uploaded on the YouTube channel "GUESSS India"
welcome to the guest area cloud experts and entrepreneurs dialogue series guest stands for global university entrepreneurial spirit students survey and it's one of the largest entrepreneurship research projects in the world with the main research focus on students entrepreneurial intentions and activities including the topic of family firm succession i am Dr raaro speaking on behalf of guest India and today I'm thrilled to host a conversation that dives deeper into the heart of student entrepreneurship it's my pleasure to welcome our guest today Kamal Kishor Kumawat co-founder at Justify a next generation warehousing and fulfillment company that specializes in building highly optimized supply chain solutions and executing them on the ground kamill is also the co-h former co-founder with an affiliate marketing platform called deal with us being an IIT Bombay alumnus Kamill took almost all the entrepreneurship courses offered by DS School of Entrepreneurship and today he continues his engagement as a mentor we will explore this more in our conversation so let's go so Kamill my first uh set of questions to you is related to the entrepreneurial spirit in academia okay uh you have been a student of entrepreneurship meaning you've been a student of IIT Bombay of course you did engineering and uh you also took courses in entrepreneurship can you give us a quick uh brief about that yes so I would just start with the basics so I joined IT Bombay back in 2011 and while there like with all the great minds there was one thing which was missing was how to build those products there were lot of teams who were building robots participating in international national competitions those students were not recognized for their courses or that value was not there i started my entrepreneurial journey back in 2011 when these courses were introduced i guess in 2014 2015 these courses were introduced what what helped me was structuring out all the things which we did while building robots also or while building companies so which things are needed structurally like when we are starting a company it's more about passion about building or solving a problem but while building a company there are n number of things which also takes up your
time so while doing those redundant things which are needed to run a company and also ensuring that you are able to follow your passion or you are building that thing remains more important was driven by the courses which I was able to take from identification what all skill sets would be needed to even start a new company that two you can fail on paper first while executing on ground so those things were quite constructive and helped me scale a company so before that it was more gutdriven and like we were more like though we were earning good revenue but we were missing out on compliances or things which we were not knowing that these are also mandatory to run a business while in college so you you if I had to summarize what you said we you would say you would say that the courses did give you a direction to something that you were already doing is that right yes not just the direction part like there were pieces which we were missing out like when you start a company it's more sort of a gut feel and you just want to break the door and things should start falling in place but there are easier methods you don't need to take always a harder route right like just from a simple BMC that things which I can do by partnering with other firms what all skill sets are needed in my co-founders or even in like it shouldn't happen that I am I have to spend almost one or two or even three decades with the company so I shouldn't miss out on the crucial things which are necessary or needed to build any exactly so that helps to know that is it worth my time to devote next two three decades in this particular domain so that is when you go via like academics though you have to devote more time but still it helps you fail fast right right so that takes me to the next question Kamill can what's your opinion about nature versus nurture can entrepreneurship education make entrepreneurs or is entrepreneurship education more about identifying and nurturing those who are already inclined towards entrepreneurship okay so there are two takes on this part there is a misconception that by learning something you will be able to execute entrepreneurship courses are needed even for the people who are joining the companies because ultimately
around us there are thousands and millions of companies which are there and people are needed so through entrepreneurship that mindset building is needed so that you would be able to do more impactful work wherever you are joining it's not that you need to start a new company from scratch you could act in similar way in even in larger organizations so companies which are surviving or thriving even traditional companies are now acquiring startups because their traditional teams can't reach at that scale they need to have smaller scrum teams even for a new product launch in the traditional organizations so that mindset would develop them how to deal with the new work environment where each day because of AI and different things are changing even through geopolitical situations you have to evolve you have to identify that mindset building is needed which these entrepreneurship courses are helping though engineering is again a structural approach to doing things correct but ultimately even for Indian market I would say engineers are more sort of managers they know ultimately if I want to execute any project I also need to understand people management skill sets i also need to understand P&L handling right so while building that entrepreneur mindset you are aware about these words which are not being taught at early stage if you are entering real core research PhD and all again the PhD mindset helps you build on that research failing thousands of time to identify that mindset is being inculcated for PhD people but now for bachelor's degree how you want to evolve those people to run businesses or do activities these entrepreneurship courses helped from day one itself that boss you have to identify like if you are doing a job if you screw Do it up you can choose to change your company your growth might not be exponential but owning to your own mistakes that you are the sole decision maker whatever actions you are taking you have to back it and find a solution that solution approach is needed so which through courses also we can try i won't say that it is 100% proof but at least 1% improvement is a big impact in a person's journey for next two three decades correct so uh thanks for that uh elaborate response Kamill i w
ill come back to some of the points you raised here let me uh give you a short statistic small statistic from the guest India report it shows a major a shift in career aspirations and 31% of students aspire to become entrepreneurs after 5 years that is up up by 14% at graduation right do you think entrepreneurship education is a major driver of this shift or are there other factors at play so actually lot of other factors are there not just the courses part But because of the digital infrastructure now India has so more reach is there even tier 2 tier three cities people are able like they have been running but now that data is available with them too so multiple business models are there and through even Tik Tok or Instagram deals or YouTubers that's again a business opportunity for them people are able to know that they can earn through different different sources that data because of the digital part data is available with lot of people and now current generations are born with phones in their hand they know what things are going out across the world and no one knows which thing would become viral or which model could work out so people have more access and through education the success rate is increasing the enthusiasm the passion to build something is something which we are inheriting from our previous generations like for my example I am able to take risk because of my father or my family support like I don't I know you also need to ensure that you have a like roof over your head that is needed then only I have that confidence to jump into entrepreneurship so but that mindset would help a person to reach that financial independence to take that risk calculated risk then it doesn't become that risk so that you are ensuring that your family also thrives and you are able to start your own journey it reduces the time span so there are multiple factors from digitization from data availability and like growth stories with Indian markets for sure like the action is happening here right so right time to be in India okay this will increase more like even the shows like Shark Tank right that is making it more famous and people try to attract like even in early 2000 cricket started broadcasting on channel like TV TV
s were available to people so people wanted to become cricketers right now because of Shark Tank and and other people are becoming famous or India have now 100 plus unicorns those people are being celebrated so now people also want to become that it is a cool thing also to become an independent so there are multiple factors correct so since you mentioned Shark Tank I'm going to bring up a question which I had uh sort of wanted to talk about later but I will sort of bring that up right now m do you think entrepreneurship education should focus on creating entrepreneurs or should it look at mindset generation mindset uh orientation so first part I would always say the mindset part because if that confidence is built the problem solving attitude that what all resources would be needed you would go and identify because you are the sole person sole decision maker who need to ensure that that mindset will help even in developing our traditional organizations even people enter government organizations that would be a great skill set to help okay so first part is mindset second that mindset would lead to eventually more entrepreneurs right right okay so actually you answered another question so I'll now move to the next stage in this uh uh interview um classroom to startup and I think you uh you're one supreme example of how you have been uh tinkering working experimenting with venture creation from the time you joined you said that you joined in 2011 and you started up also in 2011 right yes and so so this journey from the idea to venture what are the common pathways that students follow from ideiation to venture creation so again uh like if you had that skill set that boss you want to work on something so people in IIT is also ultimate aim with even the coaching institutes have created a gaga world that boss if you're entering in IIT you would get kes of packages that theory is there and for those you need to build your great resume you need to take lot of Ps you need to understand that that's a set path but early on when I joined IIT I had seen the movie three idiots Ashish word heard about him met him also in my first year those sort of experiences gave me another perspective that boss if I put that time in buildin
g something more jobs can be created and wealth can also be built so that was a ticking point that I started taking actions which would result in revenue generation or even help me understand the market also so similar steps I've followed for multiple ventures like when you want to ensure that boss you want to do something one no bra thing which I did was start building documenting everything start doing customer jour discovery part writing out about them that how that industry is working so documentation becomes the first part then for seriousness part you have to purchase the domain you have to do basics so that it is seen by the world that you are building something uh am I audible yes yes I can hear you okay you're clear so I started taking actions like each day if there is no delta movement that becomes a problematic part so for again if you are running something of your own you need to have small wins also each day each day swings from low to high you try to meet someone you send 10 invite like 10 people messages you just get one response at least one meeting that's a win for you so that you have to evolve or mature also that boss you are able to take different 10 different hits try to have one closer enjoy that moment also so Those things have helped me build businesses right multiple times so would you say this say that uh you were an outlier in your batch in the way you kept putting in efforts to build startups or would you say that there are multiple people so luckily when I was in college there were multiple startups which were coming up because Ola was becoming famous flipkart got funding was struggling in 2011 12 Snapd so I was at the time when startups were booming even in my wing there were 10 or 12 different companies being started okay so that ecosystem was there luckily right right yes plays a big role that means for sure like you need like-minded people you need people who are also enjoying the failures and ultimately small wins need to be there absolutely so what does it take a student to move from intention to action so one part which I feel like again the passion part or the action part they need to meet lot of customers the thesis need to be there on paper also it should win once you have
a business model or not to articulate business model is a big word when you start thinking about that boss okay this might work in this way let me try and speak with people and when you're speaking with people don't forcefitit your solution understand the market first is it needed or not the major problem with engineering students which I have seen is we try to build something first sitting in a room then go to market then because of uh VC funding or some lucky breaks we try to see think that this is a PMF and now I should be able to scale that becomes a problematic partial aim is building real revenue also correct so for that you need to meet and understand the market so people who go in the market start understanding showing early revenue sign or something more active users people start using those things whatever you are building that gives you more confidence that's right that's right in fact uh with a justify I remember um you explained your concept to many people and it it's it's a pretty at least when you started up it was futuristic today we know the shape form service and everything and we know what's happening but when you started you had nothing what difficulties did you face in explaining your concept to people okay so again when we started knowing about the market uh we were pretty young like 23 24 year of old people going to people and saying that boss your thousands of cr of inventory will be handled by us we didn't even have that much capital or even we don't have capital but still we are better to execute your operations guide you with better solutions that was our random confidence but in that journey for closing one customer we spoke with more than 300 plus customers we documented that understood that read lot of research report met with people who have executed operations like we met lot of executives of DHL APL different differential companies we started like dreaming about it earlier when I used to see a good train we used to get bored but when I started building a 5y even seeing those trains like it could be my customer even the trucks which are moving when we are in traffic now I just think that those might be my customer what they are moving so you start hallucinating that boss everyth
ing any product which I can touch was needing some sort of warehousing or was placed at some place even it's in their manufacturing plant or their distributor or even the retail outlet is a space that's how we built the journey like we started understanding the market then we were able to close a customer after that we got funded right thank you so uh Just to build on this continuous conversation a little bit more there there are many so for every one student who chooses to start up there are so many who choose not to right and there is interest there is excitement but there are certain barriers that prevent them from taking that one step that one action what are these bar barriers according to you that prevent students from acting on their entrepreneurial aspirations so first part is again I would always say that family comes first you need to first uh thrive you need to have a roof over your head and your like you should be able to eat good meals you shouldn't struggle for those things like you have that passion for building something but you are forgetting the basics because you can focus on like companies like your baby you want to provide your entire time to that so that becomes a first barrier second part now I guess because of the digital world has become easier that network part to meet people now there are digital roots which have reduced that barrier earlier people didn't have information so businesses which were built in 2000 2010 were more related with information asymmetry like people were charging for the information now after Google or even Chad GPT now information is available evidently so those barriers have reduced but people who have high paying salaries that becomes a big barrier because when you start you're starting with zero so I've seen lot of successful entrepreneurs who started at 40 45 having 1 2 3 cr of wealth then they started but student entrepreneurship is totally different it mighted by your batchmates supported by your friends or have at least that base like base money to survive correct who are your initial helpers exactly so you mentioned family does this mean that the economic stability of a family is important for students to want to start up so if you see most of the companies toda
y which are larger enterprises they had this basic proof and basic family stability there would be outliners for sure we like stories those stories become famous but 99% people who are making wealth are not famous right those are people again according to balar if I take about successful companies we don't know about 90% of the companies who are in the back end running the businesses built a small plug-in selling just small products also even Eli those people are the ones who are running the ecosystem but we don't know about those people we always study or hear about outliner stories right so what about institutional interventions or policy level interventions do you think some of these can help to bridge this gap yes so again if you have that mindset built then you try to look at these are the easier tools policy level changes you are tracking that boss look EV is getting benefits or wind energy is get so those are the easier spots to identify opportunities and jump on all right all right even a small opportunity of I would take say the route from say China to or Russia to China to other Ukraine or European countries is blocked because of the war there was big opportunity how to move those inventory or goods because those goods are manufactured and needed so people build our businesses around that too so short these are short opportunities but again you have to think long term yes so such things are needed you need so again that skill set of research is needed a lot um let's look at uh incubation centers in university ecosystems so there is a guess finding that 63% of student entrepreneurs currently access university support but only 26% of student ventures are being incubated with some of the top universities scoring a 4.7 out of seven one of the highest globally that is for fostering a positive entrepreneurship climate what do you think are the key factors that would have contributed to this success so there are two questions here uh like I would take like according to my understanding what I feel first part is the incubation centers are there like lot of universities have started having that but you also need good mentor support in those who come from diverse background like otherwise if we take a talk abou
t engineering colleges they their focus would be more on engineering products if you talk about management colleges is they would be focusing more on fintech or that sort of products which they understand so while setting up an incubation center even in larger organizations who want to have entrepreneurial mindset they want to build ventures or fastmoving companies inside that so that they can also survive they need to have that open mindset and have diverse people supporting that so that no startup opportunities missed so providing basic infrastructure but now highly skilled infrastructure is also needed because digital have reduced the barriers you can know about thing you can know even the documentation part initially when incubation centers were there they were more focusing on providing other supports from CA to legalities and which is needed but now those things are more democratized now you need that industry experience also to improve this score further So there are different incubation centers who provide that diverse infrastructure also but if it is provided across all the institutes at similar level it would help a lot okay so in your case in the case of justify especially or even I think deal with us you chose not to go for incubation is that right yes so luckily because I started early I had built that network and connections and about documentation process so I wasn't needing that support okay which generally other people might need we had built those thesis in place otherwise we would have gone through institute incubation center so have you observed any gaps in incubation ecosystems and educational institutions yes so again because so any company or any incubation center would be great depending upon the kind of expert experts they're able to bring in every instit like if you want to run even a company you need to institution institutionalize certain things that acts as a good part for the long term but on short-term period you also miss out on some things because the team who is running would look at startups who are more fitting to their thesis or their understandings of the ecosystem so either incubation center should also be run by entrepreneurs or that mindset that would help them evolve yo
u can find similar thing in VC ecosystem also in India also VC funds who are run by entrepreneurs are able to take better bets compared to the financial VC funds okay and like everyone is doing great i'm not like saying that they are some belt or something wrong is there those have their own thesis but for incubation centers I feel more openness is needed more support is needed so that any idea could get better feedback better opportunities so can you throw some more light on what you mean by openness is needed so when so in college you can't define that boss i we would take only engineering startups or manufacturing startups or we won't take service based startups that shouldn't be the role of a college incubation center they should be open about any idea and they should have that network to connect them with ideal incubation center okay or ideal support because if those people are from that college they should get those other support too so um right in the beginning you had spoken about how um startups built by engineers also need to integrate business understanding design and service orientation understand customers understand P&L and all of that right so that means obviously venture creation and the journey of a startup is interdisciplinary correct yeah So do you think uh institutions provide these kind of interdisciplinary opportunities in venture creation for students yes so I guess entrepreneurship courses and venture creation courses are helping that we are able to meet like again because of that college mindset people are not able to respect the professor ecosystem but because of entrepreneurship courses they see the tag of company also our professors are even better than the CEOs of most of the companies but we are not able to value them that school mindset is there or we are not taught in a right manner that we can also utilize their expertise of industry too right because they have done research they have done PhD like they have that mindset also they also know how to build something unique we are not able to take those benefits but through these courses more importance that thinking is built even for the people who are not going for masters or PhDs true true so would you say that students in tier t
wo and three cities are also getting access to the same kind of ecosystem support not right now i feel that even tier one colleges are still struggling so that support is needed to be extended that would give us even better team members like for me being a founder or running a great project in my company I feel those are again everyone who's working with us is an entrepreneur that mindset that how they run particular department how they are building those even smaller solutions we need people who have that mindset right right so let's now segue to a very tantalizing question employment first entrepreneurship later yes so the guess India report offers one unique insight into this the evolving aspirations of Indian students right and there is this shift that we are seeing 70% students aim for jobs immediately after graduation and this number falls to 52% over 5 years and entrepreneurial aspirations uh which were 14% immediately after graduation are now going to 31% after 5 years so why is there this shift why do people want to take up a job work for 5 years and then jump into entrepreneurship so two things in India the education is again becoming expensive all people can't like the family how their families have been so first they need to support their family that becomes a big factor so everyone wants to have that financial independence then only they can also learn about the market in again colleges we learn about say electrical engineering or mechanical engineering core one to two we are 5% people would be there who would be choosing PhD or research part going exactly or building on that but most of the people would want to go to jobs in jobs they require totally different skill set limited one or two profiles coding profiles who might be using their learnings but these engineering courses just build the basic behavior that boss you can try to incorporate engineering in different things also like setting a chemical plant you have are a chemical engineer so you know different things but you also need to understand the costing part of material involved so that where you want to build pipes and all those things so for that part the learning going to the market becomes a necessary thing like You want to build some
thing but before understanding the market you are being taught certain things you have to pass that also so that becomes a problematic part so in first year itself if that mindset is being taught I guess more people would start exploring because as you see Indian ecosystem in last 70 years our forefathers from agriculture to they have built something now I guess most of the people have that roof over their head so more people can take that entrepreneurship bet but for that to happen we need to start building on early on right like from first year itself people would can start looking at things from an entrepreneur mindset that what problems we can solve true true and it can happen across India it is not needed tier one colleges only if we start doing this I guess percentage would so tier one college might have 5% success rate in tier 2 college would or tier three college would start having at least 1% or.5% impact okay so so what do you think should be the first step to ensure that this thrust happens so I guess that like I guess from first year like in colleges we have NSS NSO In government colleges these are the mandatory things which happen i guess basics of entrepreneurship should also be part of this which should be mandatory just for like how we know about mathematics basics like for me till 10th I guess everyone should have 10th level education so you are aware about all different courses which is beauty for Indian market that we know about even Sanskrit even different different languages which are being taught till 10th class mathematics social science all the we are like we have that basic access to all the things similarly I feel entrepreneurship is needed to fit in that criteria even financial education I feel those things will help people more to build something early Okay okay uh let's uh so you we've spoken about educational institutions incubation ecosystems in educational institutions entrepreneurship education you've also spoken a little bit about the government let's look at the private sector what can private stakeholders what can private players do like corporations VC funds NOS's accelerator groups how can they engage students better so I guess again VC funds are again startups so they have
to prove the numbers for them i guess it would be difficult to build something on because they are a startup they have to be profitable they have to show highest returns that's how they are also making money those are startups for me but if I talk about traditional larger corporates businesses who have thrived for two three decades who are profitable sitting on great pile they could also imagine about building new companies but for that they have to have those like teams dedicated teams in corporates the problem part is they have that management structure in place and if they try to start something new in the venture and try to incorporate different different resources that could result in failure also so people will think that how my promotion would be impacted so they have to remove those barriers provide a open ecosystem that boss if you are able to at least build some thesis build something in these lines and they should have a separate team like even co-founders for that particular incubation can have a code tag in that who are building in that if that fails also they should be promoted in their existing jobs so they need to have more teams who can build on businesses that's right that's right so that culture need to be there separate teams building separate of even a separate dedicated teams would be needed it it's not a part-time job where you imagine if I take example of say Reliance and Reliance want to build something similar to Zomemetto and they just give a additional responsibility that becomes a confusing task you need to have dedicated teams inside corporates allow them to fail also right so um there are uh several private startup support systems mushrooming right student and they're inviting students to participate but somehow like it look it's a business model like you said uh how can these support systems be more studententric and how can they be more tangibly supportive in addition to the openness and the appetite for failure that you spoke about are there anything any other factors so I guess education part is already covered that if we start imparting basics of entrepreneurship from start and try to identify the problem statements which new generations are now seeing they can build better
solutions imagine if I take a simple example people are who are born in 2020 or 2024 would your voice broke off come on for a moment sorry so I was talking about we need newer generation to build on product so how people who are born in 2020 or even in 2024 would be requiring totally different games altogether right so there are several uh you still audible yes you are audible am I audible uh you're audible now you're audible now just one uh meaning we're to towards the end and I have just a couple of questions more one of them one of them is about um the institution industry ac uh interface there are several collaborations there are several partnerships do you think something should be added to these partnerships to strengthen the entrepreneurship aspect or do you think the partnerships are not working at all we feel again it totally depends upon even while telling people that boss we have built this partnership it's depends upon the person who should be able to utilize the features of it so that those partnerships need to be marketed in that way that I'm able to understand that boss if I'm coming here I would be able to reach out to these universities or these people these props or even these additional benefits I can get those benefits need to be highlighted ed by a person not from corporate but who have that entrepreneurial mindset right right take example of even like the courses which we run in DSSE or ideas program students if they are able to access great industry mentors or write customer support we are trying to build a community people who are with corporates also should come for those pitches so that those products can get loi or a pilot opportunity true so everyone can be it's a like startups will thrive when corporates start using them too true that's true that's true in fact customers yeah yes yes i I think this is uh the right time to give you an idea of a project an experiment that I tried uh here at NM i speak to uh I'm on the uh like there is this it's not really a startup right now maybe it's in the transition going uh to going public okay and uh they build insurance technology solutions the the way we worked it the way the partnership worked was we ran a startup in here and the problem stat
ements came in from the company students tried solutions and the objective was to come out with a startup idea around those problem statements and then the company would support them in developing those problems those solutions for the winning teams of course and that would be termed as an internship so it became a very attractive uh invitation for students to join participate and now in their summer break uh uh an opportunity for them to experiment with their startup development and and the prizes of course they sponsored some small money 50,000 rupees but the company also gets multiple uh perspectives and solutions you know so they they did do that um effectively Um but but then these kind of partnerships I'm finding are very few and far between not every large company comes forward with this kind of a thought process and sometime most of the companies who want to thrive for longer period need to do that because now age is not a number to judge on like someone who is 49 or 50 or someone whose age is 25 or 29 or even 18 we don't know the information they have accumulated in last one decade because of digitization so we don't know who would be great in terms of execution or understandings right totally depends upon what sort of impact they can bring out corporates could be running behind different different programs to understand how they would be able to provide things for the next generation absolutely they become their consumers they become they don't get bored even Netflix YouTube are experimenting what sort of they're trying to bring YouTubers to these OTD platforms so that their engagement can increase so you can imagine things which we calling as cringe is now becoming mainstream right more value than the traditional actors true this is just the entertainment industry now imagine the products which we are building for the next generation when I say products even the consumables the biscuits everything would change right to innovate even the supply chains would be no waiting like instamart blanket they are selling that 10-minut path flip card failed multiple times but now they have again launched minutes Amazon has launched the phone pay with their pin code so people who were calling that that won't work
out are now running behind this at least in metro cities it can become profitable model right right so one last question from you Kamill because um uh you are uh an inspirational young entrepreneur who started off as a student and today many people would look up to you as a role model so what would be your message for aspiring student entrepreneurs if you had to give them one message so instead of one I would say two three things which are needed first of all start talking about ideas also early on try to identify people whom you're meeting identify learning about their journeys we keep diving in our phones so have that physical connect have that networking opportunities earlier we used to call that as dragon knowing about our seniors mhm but imagine that basic culture of knowing 20 30 things about our people they wanted to pursue do I is or they wanted to have the financial role they wanted to become consultant understanding their journeys so having that physical connect understanding that part is I feel that is started missing out but that connect would help people to build new organizations which can thrive longer and get honest so for students my first thing is start knowing about people who are around you know knowing about their backgrounds how they raised at those places what experiences were there and reading about general knowledge which is around us that would give like you rightly said about policy changes or government interventions you might have seen the defense talks going up because of the war then they're coming down because of ceasefire these things are happening around us so that common sense is built based on our environment how we are seeing the news or how we are interacting with people around us so have that common sense have those interactions and have empathy too okay because people are who have been successful one common trait which I found is empathy yes fantastic true Kamill that was very insightful and now if I had to ask you one last question before we close if you had to implement one bold idea to transform student entrepreneurship in India what would it be if you had to drive a change the thing which I told you so I wanted to bring lot of corporate guys on weekends to college
and student just pitch their random ideas that uh one or two hour part where you can have snacks and all corporate people are coming just to interact with their college students and they can give them opportunities and ideas that's a like if a institute can sponsor that or a corporation or even a VC fund can do that that would be a great thing where after imagine like you are living in Friday afternoon uh Friday evening instead of going to your home you go to such place where startups are just pitching failing badly also but in just 2 to 5 minutes they are pitching and going away now it's up to corporate people to reach out to those so that gives them excitement ment also for both the sides people who want to build people who are with corporates who want to incorporate new solutions yes thank you so much so I'll be in touch with you thank you Kamill thank