Task extract/processed/quick_catch-up____transcript_20250622_205424.txt

Dimo Stoychev | 00:00
Thank. Im.
Carmen | 00:04
Just. one second. Sorry.
Dimo Stoychev | 00:07
Okay.
Carmen | 00:17
Yet I'm back too.
Dimo Stoychev | 00:21
Hey. How is Caramelo today?
Carmen | 00:29
Dep. Now she is.
Dimo Stoychev | 00:33
She looks sleepy. [Laughter] No.
Carmen | 00:36
She hasn't slept well the night because we decided she was in her litter cage with us. But then the dog kept bothering her, and then she didn't want to be alone until every hour she was awake calling.
So we were like, "We're here." Then she'd go back to sleep, but she hasn't slept very yeah.
Emma | 01:05
Just then, miss her. She's nice colors, you know. Yes, she's quite. I mean, I'm not a cat person, so I can't get excited the way you want me to, but I do think kittens are ce.
Dimo Stoychev | 01:18
[Laughter] Start to check it out.
Emma | 01:26
I just don't... I really
think cats are really unpredictable. Here's a cat. Did you hear the word showing you my cat, [Laughter].
Carmen | 01:37
Not showing you my cap, TED.
Emma | 01:40
He's come for a cuddle. I think he knows I'm about to go to the office.
Carmen | 01:46
Bet is really funny with it, though. She keeps looking at her wagging net.
Emma | 01:50
Yeah, I was gonna say, how does she take it? Because I feel like you wouldn't take it very well.
Carmen | 01:54
Very well, Actually.
Emma | 01:57
Betty's really chilled, though, like ce we had there.
Carmen | 02:02
There was a bit of growling, but to be honest, it's her who doesn't like Betty more than.
Emma | 02:09
Yeah, it's fine, guys. Right.
Carmen | 02:13
Let's talk about PacTech without anger, shall we?
Emma | 02:18
Yes, well, let's maybe start with anger. Helen was very angry. I was a bit taken aback, and it's not normally me being the angry one, is it? Getting a head up. Whereas I was in the situation, Carmen, [Laughter] I was being like, "Okay, let's just take a step back from this." She just came out with this barrage of stuff.
So I guess the first thing she stopped by saying was that, overall, on PacTech, they are four days over on their time. I just said, "Look, can we back up a second?" I knew we were over on the strategy project. She declared that to me when I met her in March.
But what I agreed with her at the time was that the time was two days. So I said to her, "Can I understand why two days over? I don't understand." She said she'd made the recommendation that we have an interim check-in point with the client.
I don't know what it was for, to check if you were on the right track and stuff. I said, "Right. Okay. So at that point, did you flag that this was going to send us over on time?" She said, "Well, no." At the time, we were doing it as an investment, blah.
I said, "Okay, that's the key thing there, Helen, is you've done that as an investment. We've taken your recommendation there to have an interim thing." So I went round and round on this, but essentially I just said, "Look, Helen, we agreed then and there we were writing off two days. You agreed that with me."
I was like, "We need to draw a line under the strategy part. For me, that's done. You've been paid for what you did, and we've been paid for what we did. The strategy is done, we're not going backwards. Then I said, "Where's this extra two days come from? I don't understand."
So she started going on about all the AI, all the synthetic research that they've done. So I'm obviously going, "Hang on a minute, Helen, I thought that was an investment as well.
Dimo Stoychev | 04:33
Yeah.
Emma | 04:33
I thought you were doing that as an investment to learn how you could do this AI technology, blah.
So she said, Yep, that's right. So I said, so, I'm not gonna pay for it. I was like, you're improving your own offering there and using our client as, a means to be able to do that. So she started trying to sell me how she was actually adding value into BDB and we could use this synthes, this AI shit they've done as like a case study for other people.
And I said, I agree, there's value in it. Helen but I can't use that as a case study for any of our other clients because it's so far removed from everything else that we're doing anywhere else. I was like so if I was going to do a case study and invest in something, it would be on one of our core clients, not on this.
So as I is your decision to have gone down this route. You told me you were investing time in the AI stuff so that. I mean, as far as I'm concerned again, that's on you. That's not on us.
Carmen | 05:34
It's a new offer for Paul as well. So they were clear in the beginning. They were like, "Testing this out.
Emma | 05:42
So her big issue with this thing is that we've not spoken to the client about it. The client doesn't know that we've done the work. How are we going to sell more work in if we've not told the client about it?
So I said, "I can't attest to that. I have not been involved. I don't know what has been presented to the client. She said, at the moment, they've got all the synthetic stuff and then they've got the results of this survey.
I said, right.
Dimo Stoychev | 06:08
And then I said.
Emma | 06:08
So these hours that we're talking about now, to do with the survey, are they right?
Dimo Stoychev | 06:09
See, II.
Emma | 06:13
They're not to do with this synthetic research. The synthetic research was a nice-to-have. The client hasn't asked for it, the client hasn't paid for it. Is that
yeah.
Dimo Stoychev | 06:21
Yes. Yeah.
Emma | 06:22
Okay, so I said, "So what we're really talking about now is these five hours and how you use these five hours.
Carmen | 06:28
Consumer research, though.
Emma | 06:29
The consumer research, that's why.
Carmen | 06:31
We don't have a survey. So basically, we've got things.
Emma | 06:34
One is this is where it's not clear to me then.
Dimo Stoychev | 06:35
Yeah.
Carmen | 06:37
So one is the survey, which we had a hundred people per country, which we were going to use to inform the content. On top of that, she said, "Let's do the synthetic research." So that's.
Emma | 06:52
Just because, right? Yeah.
Carmen | 06:54
And reason? First of all, she's basically criticizing how we're handling our client. Whatever. But we haven't presented it yet, just so you know, Mat, because we don't think we can present it yet because the data is contradicting and Dimo and I are going through it right now.
Okay? The other part is the consumer research, which is what she's debating this five hours about. So basically, she sent us the research and Dimo has gone back in the emails. Basically, she sent us the email with the summarine.
Dimo Stoychev | 07:26
Yeah. Let's talk about that.
Emma | 07:27
I know.
Dimo Stoychev | 07:28
Yeah.
Carmen | 07:28
So now that's where she's contesting and so where from?
Emma | 07:35
I said to her, "You've agreed. I've seen the email. Helen, your demo has come back to you and said executive summary and actionable insights." She said yes, but I think our definition of actionable insights is different. My definition of that is different to demos'.
I said, "Okay, so what do you think it is?" She says, "I've done the exact summary." I said, "Yes, but in the description to the client, Helen, it says exact summary and actionable insights.
Dimo Stoychev | 08:04
The boy?
Emma | 08:06
So she's trying to make out like they're not two different things and that we're being like.
Carmen | 08:11
Difficult about each five extra hours to do what she's done already.
Dimo Stoychev | 08:13
Yeah. What did you do in Textra?
Emma | 08:15
Then I don't. So she's saying that these actionable insights and recommendations for their business and the implications for their business is not what she quoted for.
Carmen | 08:36
Okay, but why did she include it in the quote then? So I guess my question to Helen now would be, what do you want me to tell the client if he comes back and says, "I can't see action items in here?
Emma | 08:50
So what I said to Helen was, "I got it. I was like, 'Right, what do we do about this?' You've got five hours. What do you think is the most... What's going to add the most value to the client in these five hours?"
She said, "I think the recommendations and implications for their business." So I said, "Can you do that in five hours?" and she said, "Yes, I can, but I can't do a checking call with Carmen and demo and present to the client."
That is more than five hours. She was like, "Those two calls alone are two hours worth of work." I said, "So three hours isn't enough to do these insights." She said, "No, I'd need the full five."
I said, "Okay, well, is it an option for you to not present to the client then?" She said, "Yep, happy to do that." So I was like, "Okay, let's do that then." I don't know. So that was her view. I wanted to get your view on what you think is going to add the most value to the client.
Then we somehow get to the point where she is doing what we want her to do for these five hours.
Dimo Stoychev | 10:00
Yeah, I think we spoke about this yesterday. For me, the research dividend is good. We're going to send that research to the client because there's a lot of information there.
Emma | 10:08
This is a consumer research, right?
Dimo Stoychev | 10:10
The consumer research app.
Emma | 10:10
Yeah.
Dimo Stoychev | 10:12
What we said is we're going to present the findings.
That's the part where I think needs more work.
Emma | 10:20
Is this the... What it means for their business? But.
Dimo Stoychev | 10:24
Yeah, but I don't see that as, "Here's what we found. You should change your business strategy to adapt to it." It's more, "This is what we're seeing. We think the opportunity might be more in beverages because that's what consumers are more likely to buy. We're seeing more tendencies towards more sustainable materials there, things like that, which are all in the research."
It's just not put in a way that we can deliver as findings. That's something that they can use?
Emma | 10:58
Just. from my understanding, the actions are for the repercussions for their business. Is that something we could do based on the research that they've sent?
Carmen | 11:18
I think we could say, correct me if I'm wrong, Dimo, but we could say, given what we found, you might be better off starting from Country X because awareness about this is stronger and they buy more in bulk.
Dimo Stoychev | 11:33
Yes.
Carmen | 11:37
And like Dimo saying, maybe the vertical you should start from is beverages. While in Italy you should do... I don't know, BS, what? I don't know, but something like that, I think we should be able to do.
Dimo Stoychev | 11:47
Yeah.
Emma | 11:52
Because I'm just wondering, if we can do that part. Do you? Is it more valuable to have Helen on the call? Like, how... Where do you see her being.
Carmen | 12:04
And being able then we BDB can do it. Yes.
Dimo Stoychev | 12:11
I thought it's easier for whoever is involved in the research to put that.
Carmen | 12:16
I'd feel more comfortable if she did it. Yes.
Emma | 12:19
So do you agree then that she can add the most value by pulling together those recommendations? Does she understand that what you just said there, Carmen, is what you're looking for? I don't like.
Carmen | 12:31
Because we haven't talked because everything she says is, "Well, I need to charge you more for a minute of my time." Could Dimo prepare an email about what we just elaborated on, Dimo, and then you can validate with Helen.
Dimo Stoychev | 12:50
Yp.
Emma | 12:51
I think that's the best. Yeah, I think that's the best way to if she's. I mean, especially if she's going to charge you for doing a call to catch up. That's just... She wasted 50 minutes ranting at me yesterday, though. I couldn't get out of the car. I was trying to get out of the car, and I was like, "I need to go to hell." Then, "Are you happy to present without Helen?" I guess that's my next question. I was thinking, because it's almost like a standalone...
I know it ties into everything else you've been doing, but because it's a standalone piece, can it be presented as its own thing from you guys? I'm not trying, by the way, I'm not trying to give her a way out. I argued. I argued back with her a lot yesterday because even when she kept bringing up the strategy point and the whole interim catch up with the client, I was like, "You made that decision. You made that investment of time the same as we would if we were recommending an interim catch up with the client, not costed in our original thing."
You would do that as an investment of time for accomplishment? Yeah, it's not my client, though, is it? I totally appreciate that, Helen. But you made that decision, not.
Carmen | 14:22
Think think that's the problem. I think she's treating us... I think that's the problem.
Emma | 14:27
And she's saying to me she no, not from her perspective, because she's saying to me that she's being so incredibly flexible and investing so much of her time in BDB and I said, what have you invested time in, if you don't mind me asking?
Dimo Stoychev | 14:45
So sorry, we were for half an hour for her to join and review the creative concepts.
Emma | 14:47
She said, "Go on.
Dimo Stoychev | 14:52
So that contradicts what you just said. She didn't do that.
Emma | 14:56
Yeah. but then she goes, "I've done four extra days on PakTech." I did an extra day on and over and over again. This was when I started to get angry. I just said, "Right, we're going to have to really clearly, really tightly monitor your time. You're not going to be able to say, right, stick half a day in there for PakTech." I'm going to have Louise going through the scope of work agreement, seeing how much time you've allocated for competitor research, and she is going to book a half a day.
If you put half a day in, and if you spend more than half a day, that's on you. You're investing more of that time. I was like, "If we've got to be that specific, Helen, then we will be." We've been giving you the freedom to manage time. You can't keep coming at the end of the jobs and saying, "I've run out of time and I need more time."
It's up to you. She was like, "I'm just finding it really hard working with the team. They don't understand how much time is involved." I was like, "Well, you've been working with us for six months now, Helen, so if you think you need to add an extra half a day on for phone calls with our team, then put that in your proposals going forward." I was like, "Yeah, but then the team pushed back on time." I'm like, "Well, you need to be having that conversation then, don't keep quoting the same thing." I was like, "I've seen the email thread where Dimo confirmed with you that three and a half days was long enough." He was the one who challenged that, and he was the one who added an extra day on.
Yeah, but the client was already pushing back on time and cost then anyway, weren't they? I was like, "Well then you've got to make a decision as to whether you are willing to do the work for three and a half days or not. We can't force you to work with us, so you need to make that decision.
Dimo Stoychev | 16:43
And was no implication for her time. We reduced our time.
Carmen | 16:46
But any time we try to be flexible... I completely understand what she says when you maybe start a research project. You estimated 5 hours, but you realized it's more complicated and you need more time. Fine, but tell me.
Then maybe we can find an agreement. Maybe we can find a time for BTB, which she never wants to do anyway. So I don't think we want to be inflexible, do you know what I mean? I think she goes and works in a silo anyway.
Emma | 17:19
So I don't want to get your guys' backs up anymore, but she has said to me that she's found working with you guys on this project more difficult than other projects. I said, "Why? What is it? I don't understand."
She said she just gave an example on Brabka where they've got a team's chat and how they were connecting after stakeholder calls. Sarah and Ka were sharing their notes, and they had a summary after each call.
She felt like they were really invested in the various stages of the project and things like that. She felt like she just got more out of them. I was like, "Are you feeding that back in?
Have you said that you want to work with people in this way when you're working with them?" She said no. I said, "Why? I suggest you do that in the future." If you've got a learning from something that's worked well here on one project, take it forward into your next one.
Maybe I need to do more to communicate ways of working, what's expected, et cetera. But I was like, "They're not mind readers. Like, if you're not giving them something that you need or that you want, then why can you have a conversation with them?
Like, I can't be the middleman all the time. So I just wanted to let you know, I don't have the Barrowbroca one was the only concrete example that she gave me. And I thought, well, don't you guys have a. Teams cha with her for pac tech.
Carmen | 19:06
She was the one point, but the interviews were that she never raised a single problem. On the interviews, she said she was fine with everything, but my opinion is that... I need to jump in.
Sorry. You know my opinion, like she... It's not true that she only finds it difficult to work with us because she made a massive fuss about working with Aenna Noveli. Like.
Emma | 19:28
And turned. Yeah, she's turned that she's changed that now and said that that's working now, for whatever reason. I don't know how it's changed, to be honest with you, but there's definitely something.
Carmen | 19:41
There's definitely, in my opinion, there's definitely something into the fact that we can't... She's not very open to communications and we can't have interim check-ins and because she's going to charge us.
Dimo Stoychev | 19:52
I.
Carmen | 19:52
I don't know. I don't feel like the line of cons is open.
Dimo Stoychev | 19:55
People.
Carmen | 19:56
And don't forget, she tried to charge us to change a model on the slides that she did herself.
Emma | 20:03
No, I know. So.
Carmen | 20:04
I think I like.
Emma | 20:06
I'm not sitting here, like, defending her. I wanted to make you aware of what she'd said so that you know, for going forward, not... I'm not rapping you over the knuckles or anything with it.
It's more for your awareness than anything. Like, I know it's hard with that. This whole managing a supplier relationship while trying to position her as a member of our team is difficult. It will never be like that, as far as I'm concerned.
There's always a monetary angle for her. She's not happy with how I'm proposing to do all the invoicing and the billing at the moment. She keeps bringing it up over and over again, telling me how much I should be putting into a quote to charge clients, and I'm like, "No, I just..."
I have a head.
Carmen | 20:59
So sorry. I'm sure we'll speak again. I'll leave it to you guys.
Dimo Stoychev | 21:03
Thank thanks.
Emma | 21:04
Yeah, bye.
Dimo Stoychev | 21:04
Coming.
Emma | 21:05
You are right, then, Dimo, in terms of next steps and handling her. I'll let her know this morning that we're happy to go ahead with... We think she can add the most value by doing the recommendations. You're going to get in touch to give some direction in terms of what we're expecting, are you?
Dimo Stoychev | 21:27
Y.
Emma | 21:28
Are you all right?
Otherwise, like, I know it's a fucking pain. The as.
Dimo Stoychev | 21:34
I've got three things. So, the consumer research, I'm going to email Helen just to say what to expect, and I'll try to make it as clear as possible.
Emma | 21:46
Yes.
Dimo Stoychev | 21:46
On the quantitative research,
the survey that we did the synthetic is definitely an investment, and I am not comfortable showing that to the client because what they gave us isn't like it's basically a lot of findings.
Emma | 22:04
It's contradictory, yeah, but yeah.
Dimo Stoychev | 22:04
Again, and.
Emma | 22:08
So at the moment, is it that it's not working together with the other findings that you've got?
Dimo Stoychev | 22:17
It's not necessarily that it's not working together, it's just very difficult to say exactly what the findings are from the synthetic because they just gave us a lot of info.
Emma | 22:26
Okay.
Dimo Stoychev | 22:28
So Annab is talking to it now. And Tven, she was a bit unclear because the survey, we have specific questions with specific answers that we get. But the synthetic, we've basically asked some questions and there's a lot of information that we've put together. So, Sarah is a bit lost on the synthetic.
Emma | 22:46
She was talking to me about it. In terms of... I can have a conversation with her about this. She was talking to me about it in terms of building personas and stuff, and I said, "Look, don't get me started on the persona track, Helen, because I don't have a clue how anyone is supposed to use personas." We as a business don't know how to use personas.
She said, "Yeah, actually, I'm not the biggest fan of personas." I said, "So can we have a chat about what it is that you do in terms of... Lindsey gave me some examples of media personas the other day and what people's channel preferences are and stuff.
Dimo Stoychev | 23:13
Yeah.
Emma | 23:26
And said, "From that, I can understand how we would use that to then do channel planning. I totally get that. What I don't understand is how a generic persona is going to help Annabal do copywriting." The content team at the moment has got no idea how to use a persona. The creative team at the moment has got no idea how to use a persona.
I don't know if it's because they don't know, because the personas that we're giving them are so crap and so generic that they can't really pull anything out of them or use them. So, it needs to get to the bottom of that.
So, as I said to her yesterday, I want to see what it is that you're doing because I think then I need to understand how we use it as a business and when and what. There's obviously a threshold whether they're useful or not.
Then we need to provide the team with guidance on how to use them. So she sort of agreed with me on that, but if so, they've not given you personas, is that right?
Dimo Stoychev | 24:29
They have. So they have built personas.
Emma | 24:31
They have given me the sales.
Dimo Stoychev | 24:32
Yeah, but again, because that's all AI-generated, I'm finding it a bit difficult. I can show you what they've done,
but at the moment, they think the client paid for the survey. We're finding how to use that.
Emma | 24:50
I said that to Helen yesterday, and I was like, "For right now, I couldn't give a shout about the synthetic research unless you're telling me that it is feeding into the other stuff that we've done and adding more value."
So from your perspective, from your perspective, it's not doing that, is it?
Dimo Stoychev | 25:09
That's what tripped both backs and tabs. They started looking into it because they see that synthetic research, they don't get it. There's a lot of information there that they're not sure how to use when you get to the survey.
That's why it's clear. It makes more sense.
Emma | 25:26
Okay, that's really helpful for me to know.
Dimo Stoychev | 25:27
But that might be more on our side that we just don't know how to use it. Then that makes sense because it's completely new.
Emma | 25:35
Yeah, but then if Helen's investing in it, Helen's got a role to play there in terms of helping us understand how to use that information because she's so keen to sell more of it.
So I might write, "Well, we've got to do a proof of concept here, haven't we?" and show people what it adds, what you've done, and why it adds value.
Dimo Stoychev | 26:00
Yeah.
Emma | 26:01
Okay, I can share that feedback.
Dimo Stoychev | 26:02
Cause I asked what the headlines were. And Paul, who did the research, showed me 20 things.
Emma | 26:08
Yes, she said this. She brought up this headline thing, and she was like, "Dimo was just asking for more stuff all the time."
So, from what you've said, it's like you're not asking for more stuff, you're asking to understand how you're meant to use the information that you've been given, right?
Dimo Stoychev | 26:16
And I'm not asking for more stuff.
Emma | 26:24
What are the key takeaways?
Yeah, you just want to know. You just want to understand it too much.
Dimo Stoychev | 26:29
Yeah, and simplify it, because there's just a lot of information. Then for me to understand it, they need to go through all this information, which just goes back to where we were when we had the research team. We just got an overview of the info.
Emma | 26:44
When we had Minka, it's just volume.
Dimo Stoychev | 26:44
Then what do we do?
Emma | 26:47
Yeah, which, by the way, demo... So, that's one of my biggest bugbears with that whole setup that we had. Helen's had that feedback.
One of my biggest pieces of feedback on that whole thing was we just got reams and reams of crap and no distillation down of the key things that we were actually trying to say to the client.
I'd used to get competitor reviews, and I'd be like, "Great, okay, what does this mean for our client?
Dimo Stoychev | 27:13
I say.
Emma | 27:17
So, I mean, Helen does that all very well, but I guess it's... What's the distillation of that synthetic research for us and how does it influence what we do next?
Dimo Stoychev | 27:28
Yeah, and the last thing, just so you know, she refused to join the meeting to see the creative, but then she still reviewed the deck on her own.
Emma | 27:29
Okay.
Dimo Stoychev | 27:39
Then she told me that she likes the creative ideas that we've had.
So, if you had the time to do it. Why you didn't just spend half an hour with us?
Emma | 27:46
Why didn't she? Between you and me, demo...
On certain days, she's extremely difficult. On other days, she's not. I don't know what it is, but she goes through these peaks and troughs.
So, on some days, she bends over backwards to help me. Honestly, on some stuff, she's gone way above and beyond to help me. On other stuff, she is so difficult that I'm like, "I don't know what the answer is." Because some of it, I think, comes down to her as a person, and that sounds really bad.
Dimo Stoychev | 28:25
No.
Emma | 28:27
I'm like, assassinating her character, but it's she.
And what we can't do is like. I mean, I could. I was what I was going to say was I can't really hold her accountable to like our values and stuff because technically.
Dimo Stoychev | 28:39
No.
Emma | 28:41
But get around the flexibility thing. I don't know what to do about the flexibility thing because ideally, we want to be able to jump on a call with her and go, "Helen, you just talk me through this synthetic research."
What it means without implication of being slapped with a whole day's worth of time on an invoice. My issue with the... I'm being very open about this, by the way. I feel like I'm moaning openly in the office, which is really bad.
My worry is she is absolutely rinsing us for time. She's got access to the time sheets so she can always see how much time they've logged on a job and whether they've logged it to the full amount or not.
So, I think she panicked. Sometimes she's like, "My God, I haven't used all the time on that job." Suddenly, what you'll see is the time all the times full up on the job. Then she'll start trying to say,
"Right, I've run out of time on this job now and need to get some more." That's what I don't trust about it. She's got a complete overview of our financials on our system.
Dimo Stoychev | 29:51
Yeah. Which is in an ideal world, you would want to be comfortable with some of having that and working that way, but treating it as basically being a member of yeah.
Emma | 29:58
Yes, but it's not. It's definitely like how, from her perspective, it's definitely like how TPD can make more money. So, I'm reluctant. I've been reluctant to put out any guidance on how to work with TPD because I wanted to see how it goes, and I don't want to be giving people the message that Helen is a member of our team. She should be treated as a member of our team because, in the reality, I don't want her on teams all day long messaging people and then charging us a day for doing that.
I need to have a really serious think about the guidance. She said something about.
Dimo Stoychev | 30:55
What I'm.
Emma | 30:55
When she was saying this stuff about what it's been like to work with you and Carmen versus the other teams, I just said, "Why haven't you set up the teams chat then?" I don't understand it.
Do you know what I mean?
Dimo Stoychev | 31:08
Yeah. It's not helpful being on teams because then you don't have any visibility. She's messing me directly, then I have to force the conversation on email so other people can see.
What the biggest problem for me is that she's gone to Louise directly to ask for time for Pactec.
Emma | 31:33
Or so she did. Yeah, well, this is what's... I think this is what's weird about it, because Louise needs to take more control of this, I think, is what I suggested to Helen yesterday on this micromanaging of her time. It's every proposal that she submits and gets approved that needs to be sent to Louise.
Dimo Stoychev | 31:57
No.
Emma | 31:57
And Louise needs an overview of... If she said she's going to do 3.5 days, how is that 3.5 days? Breaking down so that when Helen says, just stick half a day in here for PAC tech, Louise can go back to the proposal and go,
"Actually, Helen, you only quoted for three hours on that. I'm only going to put three hours of your time in because I think that's what's happening quite a lot."
Helen's just going, "Just put half a day in here for this and put two hours in for this plant call.
Dimo Stoychev | 32:23
Yeah, that's what I noticed, so.
Emma | 32:26
And then before you know it, she's eaten away at the time that she quoted. So, I need Louise in that instance because, in this case, you haven't got a PM either. I need Louise in that instance to be like, "No, Helen, you said on this job that it was a half a day or a full day or two days or whatever it is."
Then she can start pushing back. But at the moment, we get on a call on a Friday afternoon, and Helen just dictates to Louise what to put in the schedule, and we're trusting that Helen is giving us the right amounts of time.
But clearly, that's not happening because she's complaining about every single job saying that it's gone over. So.
Dimo Stoychev | 33:07
Okay, good to know it's actually what's happening, but I agree, I think we need some guide rails around it.
Emma | 33:17
Yeah, all right, I'll message her now and say it's the consumer research, right?
Dimo Stoychev | 33:20
Okay? It's okay, we'll get there.
Emma | 33:29
Sorry, I didn't realize there were three projects. I thought it was two. So it's the consumer research. The remaining five hours are to be spent doing the implications for the business.
You're going to provide some direction on what we think that should look like. Okay, cool. I'm sorry, I feel like it's all my fault and I don't know how to fix it.
Dimo Stoychev | 33:51
It's not your fault. In what we got her to do was the strategy, and she's good at the strategy. I think everything else is where we have issues.
Emma | 34:03
She is not taking into consideration that the rest of it is, I think, actually quite new for the fact that she had to onboard Paul to do this project. Even for the survey, it was like she was onboarding him, wasn't she?
Dimo Stoychev | 34:16
No.
Emma | 34:17
It wasn't like they'd worked together for years and knew what they were working on. Do you know what I mean?
Dimo Stoychev | 34:22
Yeah. I think with the research, it was at least the first time we were doing this, and I wasn't clear what we were doing because they didn't introduce it very well.
Emma | 34:36
I think it's because they weren't clear and they're trying to figure it out. They go along.
Dimo Stoychev | 34:40
He.
Emma | 34:41
But now she's trying to pass that on to us and say it's having an impact on their business. They're not making enough money off this job.
I'm like, "You need to take some responsibility for the fact that you suggested doing the synthetic research, and BDB is not making any money off that to the client."
She was like, "That's my point, Emma. We've not even told the client that we're doing it.
Dimo Stoychev | 35:05
No.
Emma | 35:06
And I'm like, I can't attest to why we haven't, but I will go and find out. So, the feedback to her on that is, "At this current time, we do not understand the value of that research and how it is feeding into the rest of the project, and we need to demonstrate that.
Dimo Stoychev | 35:20
Yeah, and we never said we're showing at the client.
Emma | 35:20
Do you agree?
Dimo Stoychev | 35:23
We said, "Let's see what the results are." Then, if we find it useful, then we can show it.
Emma | 35:26
Yeah, okay, I think that's fine. So, I definitely don't want you and Carmen to think that I'm sat here fucking agreeing with Helen. I had a really arduous 50-minute conversation with her where I just kept saying,
"Yeah, but we're not going to pay you any more money." I kept saying to her, Helen, if you want the result of this call to be me agreeing to give you more time, I'm not doing it.
So, you've got five hours left. How do you want to use the time
I think that was the best outcome. Obviously, the best outcome would have been that she does everything that we wanted her to do in the five hours, but there's absolutely no way she was going to do that.
Dimo Stoychev | 36:08
And c yeah, and that's fine.
Emma | 36:11
So I just went for it. Put the ball in your cart. What do you think is the best use of time?
Dimo Stoychev | 36:18
I don't mind presenting.
Emma | 36:19
Yeah.
Dimo Stoychev | 36:19
It's just having something to present that will make to the client.
Emma | 36:27
But this was my thing with Minka. I never knew what the pullouts were anyway, right?
Dimo Stoychev | 36:32
Yeah, no, thank you very much.
Emma | 36:37
Thank you, and I'm sorry. At least it's a cool project that you've got to work on. That's my silver lining.
We've done something we've never done before.
Dimo Stoychev | 36:47
Yeah, it's. I mean, it's all very interesting. I think now we have the problem of we have too much to work with. Which is we never have that problem.
Emma | 36:58
No. we never ever have that many insights, do we?
Dimo Stoychev | 37:01
Yeah, I think.
Emma | 37:04
Well, I'm hoping we can do a lovely case study out of it and show the rest of the team, and it'll be beautiful in the end. You just won't be able to have any of Helen's help
because she will pay. She will make. She charges for it.
Dimo Stoychev | 37:16
Yeah, it's okay. Thanks, Ma.
Emma | 37:21
Thanks, Deon. See you later.
Dimo Stoychev | 37:22
See you. Have a good day. Thanks, bye.