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Q:
Jquery : Product between 2 lists of inputs into a 3rd list
I don't have much experience in jQuery, I'm facing the following challenge
I have the following table
<table>
<thead>
<tr>
<td>Qty</td>
<td>Description</td>
<td>Unit Price</td>
<td>Total Price</td>
<tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr id="itemRow">
<td><input type="text" name="quantity"/></td>
<td><input type="text" name="description"/></td>
<td><input type="text" name="unitPrice"/>/td>
<td><input type="text" name="totalPrice"/></td>
<tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<input type="text" name="total"/>
Additionally, I'm able to clone #itemRow as many times as required, enlarging the amount of items.
The idea is to calculate the total price for each row (by quantity * unitPrice) and assign it to totalPrice. And assign the sum of totalPrice to total.
This is the javascript I'm using, but I get an error that says "cantidades[i].val() is not a function"
function calculate(){
var $total = $('#total');
var $cantidades = $('input[name=quantity]')
var $unitarios = $('input[name=unitPrice]')
var $totales = $('input[name=totalPrice]')
var len = $cantidades.length;
$total.val(0);
for (var i = 0; i < len; i++){
// calculate total for the row. ERROR HERE!
$totales[i].val($cantidades[i].val() * $unitarios[i].val());
// Accumulate total
$total.val($totalExento.val() + $totales[i].val());
}
}
What am I missing? I think I'm not getting "jQuery objects" from the selector but I'm not sure hot to do this.
Thanks in advance!
A:
This line: var $cantidades = $('input[name=quantity]') retrieves a jQuery instance that cannot be accessed like you did with $cantidades[i].
Fix it like this:
var singleElementCantidades = $($cantidades[i]);
singleElementCantidades.val();
What happened is that $('input[name=quantity]') retrieves an array that is an instance of jQuery. And when you access its content by using cantidades[i] you are not managing a jQuery instance anymore, you are accessing something else wich doesn't have the definition of val.
|
Q:
Is William Barclay a respected theologian in mainstream Christianity?
William Barclay
A prolific author of 70 books, including commentaries on each New Testament books, is a well known and often quoted scholar.
However some have written articles about him and challenge his Christianity based on the facts that he did not accept the miracles of Jesus, did not believe in the preexistence of Jesus, was a universalist and as can be seen in the quote below did not hold to classic views on the trinity.
Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus as God. Jesus did not say, "He who has seen me has seen God." He said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." There are attributes of God I do not see in Jesus. I do not see God's omnipotence in Jesus, for there are things which Jesus did not know. I do not see God's omnipotence in Jesus for there are things which Jesus could not do (William Barclay, A Spiritual Biography, 1977 Edition, p. 56).
Is William Barclay an esteemed scholar recognized by main stream Christianity, or are his views considered heretical in many ways?
A:
Professor William Barclay has been somewhat misrepresented by some who object to the fact that he held to some ‘liberal’ ideas (theologically speaking). This Greek scholar and Classics expert certainly was at odds with many Christians on quite a few points, but not with regard to Jesus being God incarnate, the Second Person of the Trinity. Whatever critics say about this man (who is not around to defend himself), he cannot be charged with lending any support to anti-trinitarian religionists who deny that “the Word was God”. I am not interested in defending the theology of Barclay, nor am I versed in his writings, but I do object to those who try to use partial quotes from his writings regarding the deity of Christ, to either claim he wasn’t “a real Christian” at all, or that he actually agrees with anti-trinitarians who deny that “the Word was God”. He never did support that school of thought. It is scholastically dishonest to cite him in such a way that he appears to claim that Jesus was not God incarnate.
The article quoted from in the OPs answer to his own question is interesting in that the writer (Dudley Ross) criticises Barclay for being “a liberal”; for being less than enamoured of evangelicals in the 20th century who were viewed as being conservatives, whereas he viewed himself as a liberal evangelical; for admitting to having ‘borrowed ideas’ and not original ones of his own. Ross quotes Barclay as making the allegation, "The phrase `born of woman' has nothing to do with the Virgin Birth." I know of some trinitarians who would agree, because that phrase is never said of Jesus in the Bible – it is said of John the Baptist.
Ross does more partial quoting to accuse Barclay of this theological error: “Barclay really did not believe that Jesus was God.” The partial quote Ross uses does not favour us with the context or if Barclay then went on to add how Jesus was, indeed, God, despite those truthful points from scripture he had detailed. Like Barclay, trinitarians know that they cannot quote a verse that says “Jesus is God”, as if Jesus was the entire summation of God when the Bible is clear that the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father, yet both are equally God in their divine Being. So, when Barclay highlights how Jesus was sent by the Father, and prayed to Father God, and was devoted to doing the will of his Father, that would be something trinitarians agree with.
When it comes to ‘proof’ that Barclay did not believe Jesus was God, the best Ross can come up with is to refer to another person, a liberal -
“Thayer was a Unitarian, and the errors of this sect occasionally come
through in the expalatory [sic?] notes. The reader should be alert for
both subtle and blatant denials of such doctrines as the Trinity
(Thayer regarded Christ as a mere man and the Holy Spirit as an
impersonal force emanating from God)…”
But Barclay has never stated that Christ is “a mere man” nor that the Holy Spirit is “an impersonal force emanating from God.” If Barclay had said any such things, you may be sure that direct quotes would have been given. Instead, we have an attempt to tar Barclay with the same Unitarian brush that smears Thayer.
Now let Barclay speak up in protest at those who deny that Jesus is God, and who claim that the Holy Spirit is simply the power of God. Before he died, he took a group to task for trying to partially quote him to imply that he supported them. He wrote,
“The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New
Testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: ‘…the Word was a
god’, a translation which is grammatically impossible… It is
abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament
like that is intellectually dishonest.”
And that is the issue here – intellectual dishonesty. It is not about the extent of Barclay’s theological liberalism on matters other than the deity of Christ. I do not care how liberal Barclay might have been because I am not a follower of Barclay nor was I taught by him. I am only concerned with the issue of whether anti-trinitarians can cite him honestly as one of their own, or whether Barclay held to a higher, divine view of the person of Christ than they have. Many anti-trinitarians quote from Unitarians in support of their views, but the question is – can they honestly quote Barclay as a supporter of their anti-trinitarian views? I think not.
I have no intention of going on to defend Barclay by quoting copiously from his statements about the deity of Christ. It should suffice that he objected to one anti-trinitarian group trying to claim his views in support of their own on that matter. Nor will it do to claim that the question as to whether he is “a respected theologian in mainstream Christianity” links in with the claim that for many on this site “anyone who denies the trinity is not a Christian since a Christian must accept the Creeds”. Many on this site would point out that acceptance of the trinity equates with accepting what the Bible says on the matter. The biblical doctrines of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit can only ever come from the Bible. The Bible came first, creeds came later. The first century Christians wrote of how they viewed Christ, and all who call themselves Christians must adhere to what their scriptural writings declare, for therein is the revelation of God, by the Holy Spirit, as to just who this Jesus really is.
Some people in mainstream Christianity (whatever that is) will view Barclay as being a respected theologian; others will disagree. At the end of the day, people are entitled to disrespect Barclay for holding to views on many points that they disagree with, but they should not go on to approve of what he says on the person of Christ, thinking he’s anti-trinitarian when he was no such thing. Those who quote Barclay out of context on that doctrine run the risk of being scholastically dishonest.
|
1. Introduction {#sec1}
===============
Bone density usually refers to the degree to which a radiation beam is attenuated by a bone, as judged from a two-dimensional projection image (areal bone density) in clinical practice and science \[[@B1]\]. The purpose of bone densitometry is to diagnose the osteoporosis, to evaluate fracture risk, and to determine whether treatment is required or not. There is a statistical association between poor bone density and higher probability of fracture \[[@B2]\]. Poor bone mass leads to the fracture with low energy trauma \[[@B3]\].
Osteoporosis is a progressive skeletal disease. It is characterized by low bone mass and microarchitectural deterioration of bone tissue structure, with a consequent increase in bone fragility and susceptibility to fractures \[[@B4]\]. It is a silent disease that appears later in life. The prevalence of osteoporosis is very high worldwide. One in two women and one in five men aged 50 years or over will suffer an osteoporotic fracture \[[@B5]\]. About 10% of US adults of age 50 years and older had osteoporosis and 43.9% had low bone mass at the femoral neck or lumbar spine in NHANES 2005--2010 census study \[[@B6]\]. The prevalence of osteoporosis was 50% and that of osteopenia was 36% in the persons above 50 years old in the hospitalized setting, a tertiary care centre of South India \[[@B7]\]. It has been found that 90% of the postmenopausal women had subnormal T-scores in the Moradabad of India \[[@B8]\]. Very few studies about osteoporosis are found in the context of Nepal. The prevalence of osteoporosis among the middle aged women in Chitwan district of Nepal is 26.2%, osteopenia is 39.3%, and normal BMD is 34.4% at wrist site \[[@B9]\]. Another study indicates that 15% of postmenopausal women had osteoporosis and 21% had osteopenia in the Gandaki Medical College Teaching Hospital, Pokhara of Nepal \[[@B10]\].
Osteoporosis may cause the patients to be bedridden with back pain, loss of height, kyphosis, pneumonia, and pulmonary thromboembolism. The treatment costs are the most expensive after diabetes, hyperlipidaemia, hypertension, and heart diseases \[[@B11]\]. Lifestyle and dietary behavior are important factors for the health of bone \[[@B12]\]. Deficiency of calcium and vitamin D contributes to alterations of bone remodeling and bone integrity \[[@B13]\]. Dietary calcium has significant positive association with higher BMD at all sites of our body \[[@B14]\].
This study has attempted to explore the association of lifestyle and food consumption with BMD among people of age 50 years and above in Kathmandu of Nepal by analyzing the DXA report. DXA is considered as the gold standard method for bone densitometry. The precision error of current DXA systems is 1.0% for whole body, \~0.5-1% for the spine, and 2.0-5.0% for the femoral neck, depending on anatomic site analyzed \[[@B15]\]. This technology is recently brought in Nepal and available in very few hospitals of Kathmandu. Therefore there is a lack of studies about BMD through DXA report. Besides these, the cost of DXA scan is high, so this investigation is not normally preferred for patients with low economic background. That is why there is no authentic data for the prevalence of osteoporosis in Nepal as well.
2. Materials and Methods {#sec2}
========================
The study was a cross-sectional analytical study conducted over a duration of six months from October 2017 to March 2018. This study was registered and approved by the Research and Institutional Review Committee (IRC) of Nepal Medical College Teaching Hospital (NMCTH) (Reference number: 33-074/075). The respondents of the study were the patients of age 50 years and above who had undergone Dual Energy X-Ray Absorptiometry (DXA). Written informed consent was taken from the participants. The study was conducted at the four super-speciality hospitals of Kathmandu where DXA facility was available. As this study was hospital based, we used the consecutive sampling method until the sample size was met. The patients who were seriously ill, fractured case, and having DXA report of sites other than lumbosacral spine and both femurs were excluded from the study.
The sample size was determined by using a single proportional formula using the prevalence rate of osteoporosis in India. The prevalence of osteoporosis in patients aged 50 years and above was 50% according to studies from South India \[[@B7]\]. We determined sample size by taking 95% confidence interval (CI) and 8% margin of error (d). Hence, with 13% nonresponse rate, the total sample size would be 169. Data collection was done through the observation of DXA reports of patients. All the hospitals under study had the same manufacturer machine, GE Lunar Prodigy. Before conducting the DXA scan, the machine was calibrated by the concerned operators for the accuracy of the diagnosis. Food habit and lifestyle factors were explored through 24-hour dietary recall and food frequency questionnaire survey. For this, a questionnaire was developed and pilot study was done.
Data were entered into EpiData version 3.2 and analyzed by using SPSS 20. The prevalence of osteoporosis in older people was estimated through descriptive statistical tools using WHO criteria for osteoporosis (normal BMD if T-score is equal to or above -1 S.D., osteopenia if T-score ranges between -1 S.D. and -2.5 S.D, and osteoporosis if T-score is equal to or below -2.5 S.D). Subjects were classified as having osteoporosis if at least one of the two measurements (lumbar spine or femur) indicated osteoporosis and as having osteopenia if at least one measurement indicated osteopenia, but none indicated osteoporosis. The pattern of consumption of calcium rich food was explored qualitatively. Sufficient intake was estimated through food habit pattern. The categorical independent lifestyle related variables such as smoking, exercise, and alcohol consumption were explored. Through the 24-hour recall, dietary daily calcium intake was calculated manually with the help of food composition table 2012 of Nepal \[[@B16]\]. Similarly daily dietary vitamin D consumption was calculated by using food composition table 2017 of India \[[@B17]\]. Measurement list for the nutritive value (calcium and vitamin D) per household was prepared for the ease of calculation. The household measurement of simple and traditional tea glass of 130 ml was displayed while interviewing respondents for approximate value, as per the principles and guidelines made by the Dietary Department of Tribhuvan University Teaching Hospital (TUTH), Kathmandu, Nepal, and also the guidelines of ASTHA Nepal. Chi-square test and independent t-test were applied to find out the association of different variables with BMD. BMD was further categorized as osteoporosis and no osteoporosis. No osteoporosis was considered both for osteopenia and normal BMD. All associations with probability values less than 0.05 (p \< 0.05) have been considered statistically significant. Binary logistic regression analysis was used for the multivariate analysis of p-value less than 0.05 (p\<0.05).
3. Results {#sec3}
==========
The aim of the study was to find out the association of lifestyle and food consumption with bone mineral density among people of age 50 years and above attending the hospitals of Kathmandu. Most of the patients were 60 years old and above and females ([Table 1](#tab1){ref-type="table"}).
Most of the patients were nonvegetarian. About 90% of the participants had less calcium intake than DRI ([Table 2](#tab2){ref-type="table"}).
The prevalence of osteoporosis, osteopenia, and normal BMD was measured both at lumbosacral spine and femoral neck. Overall 24.2% had normal BMD, 38.5% had osteopenia, and 37.3% had osteoporosis ([Table 3](#tab3){ref-type="table"}).
The incidence of osteoporosis was more in females than in males. Similarly osteoporosis was positively associated with age and smoking while it was negatively associated with BMI; however it was not associated with daily exercise and daily tea consumption ([Table 4](#tab4){ref-type="table"}).
The daily calcium intake had good effect on the health of bone while daily dietary vitamin D intake had no association with osteoporosis ([Table 5](#tab5){ref-type="table"}).
4. Discussion {#sec4}
=============
4.1. Prevalence of Osteoporosis {#sec4.1}
-------------------------------
Prevalence of osteoporosis increased with age and it was more in females \[[@B18], [@B19]\]. Prevalence of the osteoporosis was found to be 37.3% in people of age 50 years and above, which is less than that in the findings of the study done in India \[[@B7]\]. It may be because of application of quantitative ultrasound (QUS) in those studies. QUS screening for osteoporosis is appropriate for younger perimenopausal woman due to its mode of action and, hence, not appropriate for older people as the bone of older patients is too compact to allow penetration by ultrasound \[[@B18]\]. Different cut-off values for diagnosis are used by different QUS devices that underestimate the true prevalence of osteoporosis, which indicates the poorer precision compared to DXA \[[@B19]\]. Another study also indicated higher prevalence of osteoporosis among the postmenopausal women from QUS than DXA methods \[[@B20]\]. The prevalence of osteoporosis was 9% in females of age group 50-60 years while there was no osteoporosis in males of the same age group in Pokhara by Peripheral Radial Densitometry \[[@B10]\]. Similarly, the prevalence of osteoporosis was 26.2% in premenopausal and postmenopausal women in Chitwan district of Nepal through the quantitative ultrasound technology at wrist joints \[[@B9]\]. However, peripheral skeletal sites are not clinically useful to monitor the changes in BMD for the diagnosis of osteoporosis \[[@B21]\].
4.2. Lifestyle and BMD {#sec4.2}
----------------------
There are many lifestyle factors that affect BMD. Participants with normal BMI had high prevalence of occurring osteoporosis than people who were overweight or obese. The higher body weight makes a huge mechanical load on the bone, hence increasing the bone mass to accommodate this load, and for this the body fat acts to exert a protective factor for fracture \[[@B22]\]. However it is important to remember that not all types of fat are beneficial for bone mass. Low BMI individuals lose more bone compared to those with higher BMI individuals \[[@B23]\]. Similarly, the smokers had three times more probability of having osteoporosis than nonsmokers which is supported by different studies \[[@B24], [@B25]\]. Smoking decreases the calcium absorption \[[@B26]\]. Hence it decreases the bone mineral density and increases the risk of sustaining the fractures or tendon injury \[[@B27]\]. Alcohol consumption had protective effect on bone health from bivariate analysis. Participants who consumed moderate level of alcohol, that is, 0.5 to 1 drinks (15 ml to 30 ml) per day, had a lower risk of hip fracture \[[@B28]\]. However, high consumption of alcohol increases the calcium lost in urine which reduces the bone mass \[[@B29]\].
Several studies revealed that osteoporosis was not associated with daily exercise \[[@B30], [@B31]\] which was also found in this study. Daily tea consumption did not show any beneficial effect on the improvement of BMD. However, consumption of tea has good effect on bone mineral density \[[@B32], [@B33]\]. This may be due to the difference in frequency and concentration of consumption of tea. Studies have shown that mean consumption of milk tea was five glasses with coffee per day while in the present study most of the participants consumed two glasses of black tea. The caffeine concentration in tea is generally less than 50% of the concentration found in coffee \[[@B34]\], and the bioactive components of tea support the osteoblastic activities and suppress the osteoclastic activities \[[@B35]\].
4.3. BMD with Calcium Consumption and Vitamin D Intake {#sec4.3}
------------------------------------------------------
The mean intake of calcium consumption was found to be 520 mg which is similar to the study done in South India \[[@B36]\]. It was found that osteoporosis was negatively associated with daily calcium intake which has been supported by different studies \[[@B14], [@B37], [@B38]\]. There was no association of vitamin D intake from food with osteoporosis. This finding has been supported by another study \[[@B39]\]. This type of finding may be due to the fact that 50-90% of total vitamin D requirement can be fulfilled by sun exposure, and only 5-10% of total vitamin D can be achieved from food \[[@B11]\].
This study has several limitations. Sample size was less due to unavailability of patients as DXA facility is a new and expensive technology in the context of Kathmandu, Nepal. Similarly, the food composition table 2012 of Nepal does not include calcium value of many foods like momo (a type of South Asian dumpling) which is mostly consumed in Kathmandu.
5. Conclusion {#sec5}
=============
About three-fourths of people of age 50 years and above had lower BMD suffering from the osteopenia and osteoporosis. The high prevalence of osteopenia and osteoporosis is positively associated with the daily low calcium intake from foods, lower BMI, smoking habit, sex especially female, and increasing age after 50 years. Therefore older people should be prioritized for calcium rich food and supplementation for the prevention of osteoporosis. As this study could not make any relationship of the numerical T-score value with the amount of calcium intake, further study can be conducted from this perspective.
We are grateful to Professor Dr. Kalpana Tiwari, Director of Research and Planning, College of Applied Food and Dairy Technology, Purbanchal University, whose cooperation on this research is significant. We would also like to acknowledge Ms. Nani Shova Shakya, Senior Dietician, Tribhuvan University Teaching Hospital, for her support in the estimation of serving size, household measurement, and, of course, calculation of nutritive value of different Nepalese foods.
Data Availability
=================
The data used to support the findings of this study are available from the corresponding author upon request.
Conflicts of Interest
=====================
The authors declare that they have no conflicts of interest.
Authors\' Contributions
=======================
Narendra Kumar Chaudhary was a principal investigator. He participated in data collection, analysis, and management and manuscript drafting and critical revision. Raj Kumar Sangroula was involved in the formulation of concept and design of the study, statistical analysis and interpretation of results, preparation of manuscript, and overall supervision of the research. Mukti Nath Timilsena was involved in the review of human physiology from clinical aspect, BMD technology, and rewriting, in addition to playing a role as cosupervisor. Dev Ram Sunuwar actively assisted in data analysis, management, and interpretation and manuscript writing. Pranil Man Singh Pradhan assisted in manuscript writing and overall critical review.
Supplementary Materials {#supplementary-material-1}
=======================
######
S1 Dataset.
######
Click here for additional data file.
######
S2 STROBE checklist.
######
Click here for additional data file.
######
Characteristics of respondents (n=169).
---------------------------------------- --------------------
Variables Mean± S.D.
Age (in years) 63.46± 9.784
Height 152.5760±7.32034
Weight 60.0994±11.59607
BMI 25.7784±4.48414
Daily calcium intake (in mg) 520.4488±296.97648
Daily dietary vitamin D intake (in IU) 578.6688±435.53989
BMD value (T-score in S.D.)
LS Spine-AP -1.6976±1.66812
Right Femur-AP -1.2284±1.38104
Left Femur-AP -1.2538±1.37720
Variables Frequency (%)
*Sex*
Male 38(22.5%)
Female 131(77.5%)
*Age*
50 to 59 Years 67(39.6%)
60 years and above 102(60.4%)
*BMI*
Underweight 0(0%)
Normal 71(42%)
Overweight 98(58%)
*Smoking habit*
Yes 21(12.4%)
No 148(87.6%)
*Alcohol intake*
Yes 53(31.4%)
No 116(68.6%)
*Daily Tea intake*
Yes 149(88.2%)
No 20(11.8%)
*Daily exercise*
Yes 67(39.6%)
No 102(60.4%)
---------------------------------------- --------------------
######
Dietary habit of respondents (n=169).
Variables Frequency (%)
-------------------------------------- ---------------
*Food Habit*
Vegetarian 22(13%)
Non-vegetarian 147(87%)
*Milk and milk products consumption*
Daily 109(64.5%)
Once a week 60(35.5%)
*Green Vegetables consumption*
Daily 136(80.5%)
Once in week 33(19.5%)
*Fish consumption*
Never 22(13%)
Daily 20(11.8%)
Once in week 127(75.1%)
*Daily calcium intake*
\<500 mg 92(54.44%)
500 to 999 mg 71(42.01%)
≥1000 mg 6(3.55%)
######
Prevalence of osteoporosis (n=169).
Respondents Normal Osteopenia Osteoporosis Total
-------------------- ----------- ------------ -------------- ------------
*Age*
50 to 59 years 23(34.3%) 31(46.3%) 13(19.4%) 67(39.6%)
60 years and above 18(17.6%) 34(33.33%) 50(49.1%) 102(60.4%)
*Sex*
Male 12(31.6%) 17(44.7%) 9(23.7%) 38(22.5%)
Female 29(22.1%) 48(36.6%) 54(41.2%) 131(77.5%)
*Total* 41(24.2%) 65(38.5%) 63(37.3%) 169(100%)
######
Association of different variables with BMD.
Variables No osteoporosis Osteoporosis Bivariate analysis Multivariate analysis
----------------------- ----------------- -------------- -------------------- ----------------------- ----------- ---------------------
*Sex*
Male 29 9 Ref Ref
Female 77 54 0.049*∗* 2.260(0.990-5.516) 0.017*∗∗* 3.339(1.240-8.995)
*Age*
50-59 years 54 13 Ref Ref
60 years and above 52 50 \<0.001*∗* 3.994(1.946-8.200) 0.001*∗∗* 3.756 (1.745-8.085)
*BMI*
Normal 34 37 0.001*∗* 3(1.6-5.7) 0.020*∗∗* 2.339(1.141-4.795)
Overweight/obese 72 26 Ref Ref
*Smoking*
Yes 9 12 0.04*∗* 2.534(1.002-6.417) 0.026*∗∗* 3.848(1.179-12.558)
No 97 51 Ref Ref
*Alcohol consumption*
Yes 40 13 0.021*∗* 0.429(0.208-0.886) 0.143 0.525 (0.221-1.244)
No 66 50 Ref Ref
*Daily exercise*
Yes 48 19 0.052 0.522(0.270-1.010) --- ---
No 58 44 Ref
*Tea consumption*
Yes 95 54 0.447 0.659(0.271-1.782)
No 11 9 Ref --- ---
*∗* denotes significant variables, P-value \< 0.05, for bivariate analysis.
*∗∗* denotes significant variables, P-value \< 0.05, for multivariate analysis.
COR: crude odds ratio.
AOR: adjusted odds ratio.
Ref: reference category.
######
Dietary association with BMD.
Result Frequency Mean± SD P-Value
------------------------------- ----------- ------------------- ----------
*Calcium consumption (in mg)*
No osteoporosis 106 572.32**±**332.52 0.003*∗*
Osteoporosis 63 433.17**±**198.43
*Vitamin D intake (in IU)* 574.19**±**314.82
No osteoporosis 106 586.19**±**588.19 0.863
Osteoporosis 63
*∗* denotes significant variable, P-Value\<0.05, for independent sample t-test.
[^1]: Academic Editor: Manuel Diaz Curiel
|
Q:
Append jQuery autocomplete data to textarea content instead of overwriting it
I am trying to make a @ other people function in my rails app, just like stackoverflow:
I've almost finished this function, but I encounter problems, the jQuery auto-compelete data replace my textarea content, not append.
Coffeescript:
find_at_sign = ->
if $("#tags").val().split('').pop() == "@"
id = $("#tags").data("article-id")
$("#tags").autocomplete
source: '/articles/' + id + '/autocomplete.json'
minLength: 1
$ ->
$(document).on("input", "#tags",
-> find_at_sign())
Article Controller:
def autocomplete
@articles = Article.find_by(id: params[:article_id])
@commentor_names = @articles.comments.map(&:name).uniq
respond_to do |format|
format.html
format.json {
render json: @commentor_names
}
end
end
form_html.erb:
<div class="form-group ui-widget">
<div class="col-sm-5">
<%= f.text_area :content, rows: 5, placeholder: '说点什么...',
class: 'form-control', id: "tags", 'data-article-id': @article.id.to_s %>
</div>
</div>
I tried to use append method, but doesn't work:
$("#tags").append(${this).autocomplete
source: '/articles/' + id + '/autocomplete.json'
minLength: 1)
Any help is appreciate！
A:
Here is my half-hearted attempt at this, based on this example. The important bits are as follows:
Cancel the built-in focus event which attempts to overwrite the value inside textbox
Cancel the built-in select event and configure it to append the selected @name inside textbox instead of overwriting it
Provide a custom source function which extracts the last @name from the textbox and looks up that name and returns matching names
var namelist = [
"Adam",
"Adrian",
"Andrew",
"Charles",
"Daniel",
"David",
"Evan",
"Henry",
"Ian",
"Jack",
"James",
"John",
"Joseph",
"Justin",
"Kevin",
"Michael",
"Parker",
"Robert",
"Thomas",
"William"
];
$(function() {
$("#message").autocomplete({
source: function(request, response) {
var match = request.term.match(/@(\w*)$/);
var names = match ? $.ui.autocomplete.filter(namelist, match[1]) : [];
response(names)
},
focus: function(event) {
event.preventDefault();
},
select: function(event, ui) {
event.preventDefault();
this.value = this.value.replace(/@(\w*)$/, "@" + ui.item.value)
}
})
});
@import url("https://code.jquery.com/ui/1.11.4/themes/ui-darkness/jquery-ui.min.css");
body {
font: smaller sans-serif;
}
textarea {
box-sizing: border-box;
width: 100%;
height: 5em;
}
<script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.12.4.min.js"></script>
<script src="https://code.jquery.com/ui/1.11.4/jquery-ui.min.js"></script>
<p>Enter some text or @name</p>
<textarea id="message"></textarea>
|
Early detection by polymerase chain reaction of migratory Trichinella spiralis larvae in blood of experimentally infected mice.
We studied the sensitivity of polymerase chain reaction (PCR) for detecting DNA of migratory larvae of Trichinella spiralis at an early stage of infection with this parasite. We derived primers for PCR from a 1.6-kb repetitive sequence of the genome of T. spiralis and used PCR to detect Trichinella-specific DNA in blood of mice infected with 20, 100, or 300 muscle-derived larvae of T. spiralis at 3-21 days postinfection (dpi). We detected T. spiralis DNA in blood of mice infected with 20 larvae at 5 and 6 dpi, with a detection rate of 7.69% and in blood of mice infected with 100 larvae at 5-12 dpi, with a peak detection rate of 38.46% at 7 dpi. PCR detected T. spiralis larvae at 5-17 dpi in mice infected with 300 larvae, with detection rates exceeding 50% from 5 to 10 dpi and a peak rate of 61.54% at 7 dpi. The detection rates of T. spiralis larvae with PCR in the three groups of mice showed an increasing trend with an increase in the infecting dose of larval parasites (F = 17.811, p < 0.01). Our findings indicate that the sensitivity of PCR for detecting DNA migratory larvae of T. spiralis in blood of mice infected with this parasite depends on the severity of infection and the time elapsed after infection, and suggest that PCR may be useful for detecting Trichinella infection at an early stage in humans and food animals that test negatively for anti-Trichinella antibodies. |
Q:
kendo chart show dates in dd/MM/yyyy on y axis
I am working on angular js application and implementing kendo chart, where I want to show dates in dd/MM/yyyy on y axis in kendo chart, like below image,
I could not find any solution yet.
Please provide me sample code or plunker link for this
Following are sample code
HTML page
<div kendo-chart
k-legend="{ position: 'top' }"
k-series-defaults="model.graphSettings"
k-series="[
{ field: 'value', name: 'Budget BaseLine' },
{ field: 'value1', name: 'Budget Real' }]"
k-data-source="model.chartDataSource1"
k-category-axis="{labels:{rotation:-45}, title:{text: 'Budget Type'}}"
k-value-axis="{title:{text:'Date'}}"
k-rebind="model.chartDataSource1"
k-tooltip="{visible: true, template: '#= category #: #= value#'}"
style="height: 300px;">
</div>
angular js Controller
scope.model.graphSettings = {
type: 'column'
};
var obj = [];
obj.push({
category: "Category 1",
value: new Date(),
value1: new Date(),
}, {
category: "Category 2",
value: new Date(),
value1: new Date(),
})
scope.model.chartDataSource1 = new kendo.data.DataSource({
data: obj
});
A:
It is a bit strange that you have dates on the Y-axis - usually dates are on the X-axis.
To achieve what you have shown in the image you need to add a labels section with a template definition to your valueAxis options of the chart widget. Here's an example:
<div kendo-chart
k-legend="{ position: 'top' }"
k-series-defaults="model.graphSettings"
k-series="[{ field: 'value', name: 'Budget BaseLine' },
{ field: 'value1', name: 'Budget Real' }]"
k-data-source="model.chartDataSource1"
k-category-axis="{labels:{rotation:-45}, title:{text: 'Budget Type'}}"
k-value-axis="{title:{text:'Date'}, labels: {template: '#= kendo.toString(new Date(value),\'dd/MM/yyyy\') #'}}"
k-rebind="model.chartDataSource1"
k-tooltip="{visible: true, template: '#= category #: #= value#'}"
style="height: 300px;">
</div>
This assumes that your dates are in a format which could be parsed by the JavaScript date parser, as explained here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/parse
|
Sen. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., smiles while speaking at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College in Manchester, N.H. Friday, March 16, 2018. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
Sen. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., smiles while speaking at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College in Manchester, N.H. Friday, March 16, 2018. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) — Jeff Flake has a direct message for the Republicans of New Hampshire: Someone needs to stop Donald Trump. And Flake, a Republican senator from Arizona, may stand up against the Republican president in 2020 — either as a Republican or an independent — if no one else does.
“It has not been in my plans to run for president, but I have not ruled it out,” the 55-year-old Flake said Friday in his first solo political appearance in New Hampshire. The state is expected to host the nation’s first presidential primary election in less than two years.
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“I hope that that someone does run in the Republican primary, somebody to challenge the president,” Flake said. “I think that the Republicans want to be reminded what it means to be a traditional, decent Republican.”
After attacking Trump in a speech that spanned nearly 20 minutes, Flake earned a standing ovation from the packed room that gathered for the esteemed “Politics and Eggs” speaker series at Saint Anselm College.
Flake is among a very small group of Republican elected officials speaking out against the Trump presidency with increasing alarm.
He has already written a book that slams Trump. He condemned Trump on the Senate floor and charged in a speech on Thursday at the National Press Club that his party “might not deserve to lead” because of its blind loyalty to Trump. By visiting New Hampshire, Flake is now declaring the possibility of another tactic: a 2020 primary challenge.
On the ground in the Granite State, a full year before presidential candidates typically begin courting local voters, there is already an expectation among top Republicans that Trump will face a challenge from within his own party in the next presidential contest. Yet few think Trump could be defeated, even under the worst circumstances.
Steve Duprey, who represents New Hampshire at the Republican National Committee, said: “It’s virtually impossible to beat an incumbent for the nomination. But that doesn’t prevent people from trying with various degrees of seriousness.”
“I think there will be some primary,” he added. “Whether it’s a serious contender or a protest candidate that the president’s team would have to take seriously, it’s too early to tell.”
Despite Flake’s fiery pronouncements, he would start out as an underwhelming presidential contender on paper.
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He is not well-known, he has little money of his own and a disdain for fundraising, and because he is retiring from the Senate at year’s end, he has no political organization to help fuel his ambitions.
Flake has powerful friends who could help, however, including the outspoken anti-Trump billionaire Mark Cuban.
“I’m a Jeff Flake fan,” Cuban told The Associated Press.
The billionaire, who is considering a presidential bid of his own, acknowledged that he doesn’t know much about Flake’s political ambitions. “But as a citizen of this great country, the more candidates for the office of president the better,” Cuban said.
In an interview with the AP on the eve of his Friday speech, Flake acknowledged Trump was probably too popular among the Republican base to lose a primary in the current political climate.
“Not today, but two years from now, possibly. Things can unravel pretty fast,” Flake said, suggesting that a disastrous midterm election season for the GOP could realign voter loyalty. “As soon as he’s viewed as one who loses majorities in the House and the Senate, and there’s no chance that someone in the 30s can win re-election, people might move on.”
And if Trump’s standing with the base doesn’t fade, Flake would consider a presidential bid as an independent. As Ralph Nader and Ross Perot have shown, a third-party candidate can profoundly affect a presidential contest, even by drawing only a fraction of the general election vote in a few key states.
“I’m not ruling that out, either,” Flake said. “There are going to be a lot of other people in the party looking for something else.”
He continued, “If you end up with Trump on one side, (Bernie) Sanders or (Elizabeth) Warren on the other, there’s a huge swath of voters in the middle that make an independent run by somebody a lot more realistic.”
Trump has a special relationship with New Hampshire.
The state gave him his first victory of the 2016 Republican primary season. His political future was very much in question when he dominated the competition with 35 percent of the vote. Second-place finisher, Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who is also weighing a 2020 run, earned just 15 percent.
On Monday, just three days after Flake’s visit, Trump is expected to make his first appearance in the state since winning the 2016 election. The visit was arranged after Flake’s speech was scheduled. And Vice President Mike Pence is set to appear in New Hampshire later in the week as well.
Republican National Committee spokeswoman Cassie Smedile dismissed Flake’s potential challenge.
“President Trump won because of his vision to make America great again, and we’re confident that as he continues to deliver on the promises he made, voters will re-elect him in 2020,” Smedile said. |
Ato Busera Awel, Chief Commercial
Officer at Ethiopian Airlines, who gave out diplomas to all the
graduates, flight wings to cabin crew and achievement award to
graduates with outstanding academic performance, remarks: "I wish
to take this opportunity to congratulate you all on your success
and strongly encourage you all to carry on with Ethiopian
transcendent corporate culture and work ethic, and sustain the
legacy in our proud 70 plus years of history and success."
Mr. Awel discloses that Ethiopian
Airlines' foundation of its Human Resource Development lies in the
Aviation Academy which has been operating successfully since its
establishment in 1956, contributing significantly towards
alleviating the critical shortage of skilled aviation
professionals.
No
part of this publication may be reproduced
by any means without written permission
from the publisher. The opinions expressed
are not to be considered that of the publisher
who accepts no liability of any nature from
or in connection with the content of this
journal.
The
Aviation & Allied Business Journal is
a bi-monthly publication of the Aviation
& Allied Business Publications. |
Q:
TestClass code Coverage
public string main(string url)
{
Http h= new Http();
HttpRequest req= new HttpRequest();
req.setEndpoint(url);
req.setMethod('GET');
req.setTimeout(60000);
string hresult='';
if(isValid==true)
{
HttpResponse hres= h.send(req);
hresult = hres.getBody();
system.debug('syssss'+hres);
system.debug('sysst' +hresult);
}else{
hresult = '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?><HelpTextDetails><HelpTab TabName="C&P InvoicePayment" label="C&P InvoicePayment"></HelpTab></HelpTextDetails>';
}
return hresult;
}
My Test Class is
public static testmethod void helptest(){
helptex hc = new helpTex();
hc.isValid = true;
hc.main('https://s3.amazonaws.com/clickandpledge/Salesforce/Help/Help.XML');
}
This is not covering this part
hresult = hres.getBody();
return result
Once this part is covered,I can cover the another method which is referred to this method.What should I do to cover this part also
A:
The reason you are seeing those as not covered is because your unit test is throwing an error. From their documentation:
Apex Code has built in functionality to call external Web services,
such as Amazon Web Services, Facebook, Google, or any publicly
available web service. As a result, you will need to have the proper
test method code coverage for the related Apex code that makes these
callouts. But since the Force.com platform has no control over the
external Web service and the impact of making the web service call,
test methods can not invoke a 3rd party web service. This section
provides a viable workaround to ensure proper code coverage.
Essentially, you can't call out to that service during a test. It looks like you tried to use this tutorial, but you didn't really follow it very well. You should not be setting hc.isValid = true;. That value should return false so you don't actually call out to the web service. In this scenario, you will never achieve 100% code coverage, the
HttpResponse hres = h.send(req);
hresult = hres.getBody();
System.debug('syssss' +hres);
System.debug('sysst' +hresult);
section will not be tested no matter what you do.
As a final note, that unit test is not valid. You must assert something. Your unit test only validates that the code will not error out, which isn't what a unit test is all about. From the Salesforce documentation:
To facilitate the development of robust, error-free code, Apex
supports the creation and execution of unit tests. Unit tests are
class methods that verify whether a particular piece of code is
working properly. Unit test methods take no arguments, commit no data
to the database, send no emails, and are flagged with the testMethod
keyword in the method definition.
Properly testing a piece of code will verify it does exactly what you originally intended for it to do. A good example of a proper unit test is provided here on Salesforce's documentation. Long story short, learn the System.assert, System.assertEquals, and System.assertNotEquals commands. Read up on their documentation here.
A:
http://blogs.developerforce.com/developer-relations/2012/10/testing-http-callouts-with-static-data-in-winter-13.html#comment-688228232
The above blog specifies how to use mockcallout interface and test the code .I think since salesforce has come out with these interfaces we should use these for tetsing callouts.
|
Apple and Amazon received a challenge from the U.S. companies to shift their purpose from acquiring profit to seeking the welfare of the planet.
B Corporation, a group of 30 American business leaders such as Danone’s U.S. Business, Unilever,s Ben and Jerry, Natura’s The Body Shop, Patagonia and more released a full-page ad on Sunday addressed to Tim Cook, Apple’s Tim Cook and Jeff Bezos.
The ad talks about the BRT, Business Roundtable’s change of their definition of purpose. The BRT which consist of 181 biggest companies including Apple and Amazon shifted their definition of the purpose of corporation staff and environment care from their usual aim to increase their profit.
The B Corporation, a global movement of people using business as a force for good initiated the ad publishing to challenge the Business Roundtable members namely Apple and Amazon to go beyond their motto. They encouraged the giants to take the necessary actions that correspond to the content of their statement.
Andrew Kassoy, the co-founder of B Lab overseeing the B Corporation, expressed his delight in the BRT’s shift of definition of purpose. He even described the implementation of the said shift as a moment to celebrate. He further added that it is a significant cultural shift.
The advertisement described the B Corporation members as the ones walking the stakeholder capitalism part of the community of certified B-Corporations. The ad further added that B-Corp operates with a better model of corporate governance.
Challenging the Apple and Amazon, the B-Corp declared that they are operating at a better model of corporate governance. They introduced themselves as the ones meeting the highest standards of verified positive impact for their workers, customers, suppliers, communities and the environment.
The BRT’s decision to bring radical change to the definition of purpose is a breakthrough from the 1970’s philosophy that has been going on for decades. The philosophy from Milton Friedman states that “the social responsibility of business is to increase its profits."
As of the moment, there are 3000 companies across the globe desiring to be part of the B Corps. They are working on the entire process to complete the certification. |
VANCOUVER - As teachers staged their first day of a full-scale strike in British Columbia, the province's education minister said negotiations would resume only if the union comes to the table with a fully costed proposal.
Peter Fassbender said the government's chief negotiator was ready to go back to the bargaining table with the BC Teachers' Federation on Tuesday afternoon.
"The BCTF has not put a fully costed, comprehensive proposal on the table. That's what we're waiting for, that's what we need and negotiations can continue," he said.
Both sides failed to reach an agreement on the weekend, leading teachers to walk off the job Tuesday.
Fassbender said there's a "significant gap" between the union's demands and the government's offer.
The union's latest proposal dropped wage demands to eight per cent over five years, down from its original request of 13.5 per cent over three years. It also proposed a $5,000 signing bonus and asked for new money specifically to deal with classroom conditions.
The government is proposing a seven per cent wage hike over six years and maintaining its offer of a $1,200 signing bonus if the deal is done by June 30.
Fassbender said the government is aiming for a contract that's in line with what's been negotiated with other public-sector unions, but the BCTF's proposal appears heavy on benefits.
"It is at least two times more than what we've given to the other public-sector unions."
The start of the strike Tuesday had placard-wearing teachers walking the picket line.
In Victoria, high school counsellor Lorna Maximick said she was optimistic about an agreement but is now resolved to what could be a summer-long strike.
"I don't want to be here, standing on the street," Maximick said Tuesday. "It's been a very angst(-filled) month or six weeks. I work with Grade 12s as well as other kids, so I feel for that."
Many end-of-school events and ceremonies have been cancelled due to the labour woes that have built up since three weeks of rotating strikes began in May, with schools in each district across the province closed for a day.
The government imposed a partial lockout in response and docked teachers' pay by 10 per cent when their rotating strikes began.
"I think there's an agenda here with the provincial government, and I don't quite know what it is but I don't feel very good about it," Maximick said Tuesday on the picket line.
Educational assistants who work in classrooms were also off the job, even though they are not on strike.
Cristina Carrasco, a CUPE member, is honouring teachers' picket lines and says the strike has left assistants and many teachers unable to wish students and families a safe and happy summer.
"I'm missing the closure. We didn't have enough time to say goodbye to the children and to thank parents, so it's weird," she said.
In Delta, south of Vancouver, union president Jim Iker stood with picketing teachers and repeated complaints that all union proposals have been rejected by the government's bargaining agent.
Such claims produced a stern denial from chief government negotiator Peter Cameron, who accused Iker of misrepresenting the facts.
Wages, class size, support for students and the hiring of specialist teachers remain key issues in the strike that affects more than 40,000 teachers and about half a million students.
Some before- and after-school care centres were providing all-day care for students, as families scrambled to make arrangements during the strike.
Christine Hibbert, executive director of the Jericho Kids' Club, which runs programs at three schools in Vancouver, said only children who are already registered during the school year can be accommodated during the strike because of the lack of staff.
Hibbert said the non-profit centre run by a parents' board is charging an extra $20 a day to care for students, on top of the monthly fee that's already been paid, but that won't cover the costs involved.
Families whose kids aren't already registered at the centres have had to be turned away, she said.
"We couldn't open those floodgates. We're pretty much at capacity so there was no way we could start to take anybody else."
Hibbert said families are cobbling together their resources to get care for their children nearly two weeks before the start of the summer break. She said some people are taking time off or having friends or family help out.
We encourage an open exchange of ideas on this story's topic, but we ask you to follow our guidelines for respecting community standards. Personal attacks, inappropriate language, and off-topic comments may be removed, and comment privileges revoked, per our Terms of Use. Please see our FAQ if you have questions or concerns about using Facebook to comment. |
You would think that the backdrop would be the Chicago skyline. The players would be sporting red, white and Cubbie blue. Chicago Cubs Manager Lou Piniella would be getting ready for a possible sacrifice of his Cubs hat on any of the bases, but this isn’t the case.
The sold out crowd admired the cars speeding by on the Elgin-O’Hare Expressway and the plentiful amounts of towering trees behind the outfield wall instead. The ladies of the Chicago Bandits stretched in unison as they got ready to compete against the men of the Schaumburg Flyers in the “Battle of the Sexes” softball game at Alexian Field in Schaumburg on Monday evening.
The duel between the teams was supposed to start at 7:05 p.m., but it had to be postponed an extra 30 minutes because fans were still coming into the ball park.
“I’ve never in my life played in front of a crowd that big, so it was unbelievable,” said Bandits C Rachel Folden.
Sections of fans clapped and cheered as the ladies in orange and black took a 4-2 lead in the top of the fifth. The 8,918 fans in attendance, which is the largest crowd the Flyers have seen since the season started, stood up in support as Bandits RHP Brandice Balschmiter struck out Flyers LF TJ Wilson for the last out of the game and a historic Bandits victory.
“I think this event is a good indication that our league is doing some good things,” said Folden. “I think this is totally going to boost our attendance at home and I can’t speak for the other teams in the league, but this is going to do big things for our organization.”
The Flyers brought in extra help for the special occasion since the game was played by softball rules and not baseball. Australian softball pitcher Andrew Blackshaw was lights out for the Flyers and struck out 6 batters while only walking 1 during 3 complete innings of underhand fast pitching. Amateur Softball Association Men’s Major Fastpitch pitchers Brian Tobin and Jason Iuli picked up the game in relief.
Bandits starting RHP Eileen Canney did not allow a hit or a run for 2 consecutive innings while striking out 5. The Bandits were trailing by two, but C Rachel “Folden is Golden” Folden changed all that when she scorched a 2 RBI single to right field. The 2008 Nokona American Glove Rookie of the Year scored 3B Stacey May and CF Laura Harms for the 4-2 lead in the bottom of the fifth.
The successful event started with a trash-talking exchange between Flyers owner Rich Ehrenreich and Bandits owner Bill Sokolis, who also happens to be a good friend of Ehrenreich’s. According to the Flyers owner, Sokolis kept bragging that the women could outplay the men at their game, so Ehrenriech decided to take him up on the statement and the Battle of the Sexes was born.
After the intense display of gender competition, the exuberant fans piled onto the field for a chance to meet and get an autograph from their favorite Flyer or Bandit player.
The Battle of the Sexes concluded with the women taking a 1-0 lead over the men. Sounds like an opportunity for a best out three for the next couple of seasons, doesn’t it?
“I think it would be awesome if this was an annual event,” said Canney.“The ticket sales are unbelievable and we have so many of the Bandits fans coming from all over the Chicago area, so I think it would be fun to do it every year.”
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Rikki is a recent graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a Bachelor of Arts in Journalism. Her current assignment is working for milbradio.com covering the Northern League. She has freelanced for various websites such as the NBC5 Chicago Street Team, Chicago Sports Review, theloveofsports.com, the loveofbeer.com and thesportsbank.net. Sports have always been of great intrigue to her, but she didn't start writing about the topic until August 2008 and has loved every minute of it. She continues to explore other topics, but has concentrated on baseball and football for the past year or so. Contact Rikki. |
Hospital Run
Hospital Run is a stream in the U.S. state of West Virginia.
Hospital Run was so named for the fact an Indian who recovered from his wounds near its banks.
See also
List of rivers of West Virginia
References
Category:Rivers of Pocahontas County, West Virginia
Category:Rivers of West Virginia |
import numpy as np
import torch
import torch.nn as nn
import torch.nn.utils.rnn as rnn_utils
import torch.nn.functional as F
from . import utils
HIDDEN_STATE_SIZE = 512
EMBEDDING_DIM = 50
class PhraseModel(nn.Module):
def __init__(self, emb_size, dict_size, hid_size):
super(PhraseModel, self).__init__()
self.emb = nn.Embedding(num_embeddings=dict_size, embedding_dim=emb_size)
self.encoder = nn.LSTM(input_size=emb_size, hidden_size=hid_size,
num_layers=1, batch_first=True)
self.decoder = nn.LSTM(input_size=emb_size, hidden_size=hid_size,
num_layers=1, batch_first=True)
self.output = nn.Sequential(
nn.Linear(hid_size, dict_size)
)
def encode(self, x):
_, hid = self.encoder(x)
return hid
def get_encoded_item(self, encoded, index):
# For RNN
# return encoded[:, index:index+1]
# For LSTM
return encoded[0][:, index:index+1].contiguous(), \
encoded[1][:, index:index+1].contiguous()
def decode_teacher(self, hid, input_seq):
# Method assumes batch of size=1
out, _ = self.decoder(input_seq, hid)
out = self.output(out.data)
return out
def decode_one(self, hid, input_x):
out, new_hid = self.decoder(input_x.unsqueeze(0), hid)
out = self.output(out)
return out.squeeze(dim=0), new_hid
def decode_chain_argmax(self, hid, begin_emb, seq_len, stop_at_token=None):
"""
Decode sequence by feeding predicted token to the net again. Act greedily
"""
res_logits = []
res_tokens = []
cur_emb = begin_emb
for _ in range(seq_len):
out_logits, hid = self.decode_one(hid, cur_emb)
out_token_v = torch.max(out_logits, dim=1)[1]
out_token = out_token_v.data.cpu().numpy()[0]
cur_emb = self.emb(out_token_v)
res_logits.append(out_logits)
res_tokens.append(out_token)
if stop_at_token is not None and out_token == stop_at_token:
break
return torch.cat(res_logits), res_tokens
def decode_chain_sampling(self, hid, begin_emb, seq_len, stop_at_token=None):
"""
Decode sequence by feeding predicted token to the net again.
Act according to probabilities
"""
res_logits = []
res_actions = []
cur_emb = begin_emb
for _ in range(seq_len):
out_logits, hid = self.decode_one(hid, cur_emb)
out_probs_v = F.softmax(out_logits, dim=1)
out_probs = out_probs_v.data.cpu().numpy()[0]
action = int(np.random.choice(out_probs.shape[0], p=out_probs))
action_v = torch.LongTensor([action]).to(begin_emb.device)
cur_emb = self.emb(action_v)
res_logits.append(out_logits)
res_actions.append(action)
if stop_at_token is not None and action == stop_at_token:
break
return torch.cat(res_logits), res_actions
def pack_batch_no_out(batch, embeddings, device="cpu"):
assert isinstance(batch, list)
# Sort descending (CuDNN requirements)
batch.sort(key=lambda s: len(s[0]), reverse=True)
input_idx, output_idx = zip(*batch)
# create padded matrix of inputs
lens = list(map(len, input_idx))
input_mat = np.zeros((len(batch), lens[0]), dtype=np.int64)
for idx, x in enumerate(input_idx):
input_mat[idx, :len(x)] = x
input_v = torch.tensor(input_mat).to(device)
input_seq = rnn_utils.pack_padded_sequence(input_v, lens, batch_first=True)
# lookup embeddings
r = embeddings(input_seq.data)
emb_input_seq = rnn_utils.PackedSequence(r, input_seq.batch_sizes)
return emb_input_seq, input_idx, output_idx
def pack_input(input_data, embeddings, device="cpu"):
input_v = torch.LongTensor([input_data]).to(device)
r = embeddings(input_v)
return rnn_utils.pack_padded_sequence(r, [len(input_data)], batch_first=True)
def pack_batch(batch, embeddings, device="cpu"):
emb_input_seq, input_idx, output_idx = pack_batch_no_out(batch, embeddings, device)
# prepare output sequences, with end token stripped
output_seq_list = []
for out in output_idx:
output_seq_list.append(pack_input(out[:-1], embeddings, device))
return emb_input_seq, output_seq_list, input_idx, output_idx
def seq_bleu(model_out, ref_seq):
model_seq = torch.max(model_out.data, dim=1)[1]
model_seq = model_seq.cpu().numpy()
return utils.calc_bleu(model_seq, ref_seq)
|
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Introduction
============
Delirium, which is one of the most distressing syndromes in terminal cancer patients \[[@b1-crt-2013-229]-[@b3-crt-2013-229]\], is characterized by acute confusion, an altered level of consciousness, restlessness, decreased cognition, and abnormal perception, all of which tend to fluctuate over the course of the day \[[@b1-crt-2013-229],[@b4-crt-2013-229]\]. Delirium is associated with a higher rate of morbidity and mortality, longer hospital stay, higher health care costs, and significant distress to patients, family members, and professional caregivers \[[@b5-crt-2013-229],[@b6-crt-2013-229]\]. The current management of delirium involves identifying and removing any potentially reversible causes and prescribing pharmacologic and non-pharmacologic interventions \[[@b7-crt-2013-229]\]. Non-pharmacologic measures such as environmental controls and aids for orientation are recommended \[[@b5-crt-2013-229],[@b8-crt-2013-229],[@b9-crt-2013-229]\]. However, if these fail to alleviate symptoms, treatment with pharmacologic neuroleptics (e.g., haloperidol, chlorpromazine, olanzapine, aripiprazole, and quetiapine) and/or benzodiazepines are recommended \[[@b5-crt-2013-229],[@b8-crt-2013-229],[@b10-crt-2013-229]-[@b13-crt-2013-229]\]. The optimal order and dose of neuroleptics for delirium has not been well defined \[[@b14-crt-2013-229]\]. In our acute palliative care unit (APCU), haloperidol is mainly used as a firstline treatment, followed by rotation to chlorpromazine if patients continue to experience agitated delirium; however, the rate of response to haloperidol as a first-line neuroleptic has not been well defined in a palliative care setting. We recently documented the lack of efficacy of low dose haloperidol in alleviating delirium recall and related distress \[[@b15-crt-2013-229],[@b16-crt-2013-229]\]. A better understanding of the effectiveness of firstline haloperidol will help optimize the management of delirium in palliative care. In this study, we evaluated the efficacy of haloperidol as a first-line neuroleptic in cancer patients with delirium and the predictive factors associated with the need for second-line therapy.
Materials and Methods
=====================
1. Patients
-----------
This study was approved by the Institutional Review Board at Texas University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center with a waiver for informed consent. We conducted a retrospective review of the charts of 167 consecutive patients with advanced cancer who were admitted to our APCU between January 1, 2012, and March 31, 2013. Inclusion criteria were (1) a diagnosis of delirium based on clinical diagnosis by a palliative medicine specialist or a score ≥ 7/30 on the Memorial Delirium Assessment Scale (MDAS) and (2) treatment with haloperidol as a first-line neuroleptic for delirium.
2. Study procedure
------------------
We collected the following information from electronic medical records: demographics (age, sex, race, and performance status), cancer diagnosis, duration of APCU stay, source of admission (oncology service through the consultation team, outpatient ambulatory center, or the emergency center), discharge information (discharged alive or died in the APCU), delirium characteristics (MDAS score and subtype), neuroleptic treatment information, concurrent benzodiazepine treatment status, Edmonton Symptom Assessment Scale (ESAS) score upon admission to the APCU, CAGE (i.e., cut down, annoying, guilty, and eye-opener), do-not-resuscitate status at admission, response to neuroleptics, and the haloperidol equivalent daily dose (HEDD) \[[@b16-crt-2013-229]\]. To facilitate comparisons of patients who received multiple neuroleptics, we calculated the HEDD using the defined daily dose \[[@b17-crt-2013-229]\], which is a theoretical unit of measurement defined as the assumed standard daily dose for a drug used for its main indication in adults. The defined daily doses for haloperidol (oral or parenteral), chlorpromazine (parenteral), and olanzapine (oral) are 8 mg, 100 mg, and 10 mg, respectively. The ESAS score is a widely used and validated tool for assessment of nine symptoms (pain, fatigue, nausea, depression, anxiety, drowsiness, appetite, shortness of breath, and sleep) and general feeling of well-being on a scale of 0 (no symptoms) to 10 (worst symptoms imaginable) \[[@b18-crt-2013-229]\].
3. Statistical analysis
-----------------------
Our primary objective was to determine the proportion of patients with delirium for whom haloperidol failed, which was defined as the number of patients requiring second-line neuroleptics. To document the use of haloperidol in clinical practice, standard descriptive statistics including means, median, interquartile ranges (IQR), standard deviations, and ranges, were used together with 95% confidence intervals. We also analyzed the daily neuroleptics dose using HEDD. We determined the degree of correlation between mean HEDD and continuous clinical parameters using Spearman's rank correlation coefficients. The statistical significance of differences of various variables between patients who required neuroleptic rotation and those who did not were calculated using the Kruskal-Wallis, chi-square, and Fisher exact tests. Multivariate analysis was performed using logistic regression with backward elimination. SAS ver. 9.2 (SAS Institute, Cary, NC) and R ver. 2.3.1 (The R Foundation for Statistical Computing, Vienna, Austria) were used to perform these analyses.
Results
=======
1. Patient characteristics
--------------------------
Of the 266 patients assessed for eligibility, 167 were included for analysis ([Fig. 1](#f1-crt-2013-229){ref-type="fig"}). The patient demographics are summarized in [Table 1](#t1-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table"}. Ninety-two of the patients (55%) were transferred from Department of Oncology, while 58 (35%) were admitted from the emergency center. Among the 167 patients, the inpatient mortality rate was 36%. Among patients discharged alive, 52 (49%) were sent home or to home hospice, 49 (46%) to inpatient hospice, and 6 (6%) to another hospital. All patients had stage 4 cancer.
2. Factors associated with need for second-line neuroleptic therapy
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 167 patients with delirium, 128 (77%) received only haloperidol and 39 (23%) needed a second neuroleptic. Among these 39 patients, 33 (85%) stopped haloperidol and started another neuroleptic, and six (15%) added a second neuroleptic to the existing haloperidol regimen. Ninety-one patients (71%) who received haloperidol alone showed symptom improvement and were discharged alive. The initial median daily haloperidol dose was 5 mg (IQR, 3 to 7 mg) and the median duration was 5 days (IQR, 3 to 7 days). The final median haloperidol dose was 6 mg (IQR, 5 to 7 mg). Lack of treatment efficacy was the most common reason for neuroleptic rotation (87%). As shown in [Table 2](#t2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table"}, significant factors associated with neuroleptic rotation included inpatient mortality (59% vs. 29%, p=0.001), and white race (87% vs. 62%, p=0.014). Cancer diagnosis, stage of cancer, CAGE, duration of APCU stay, delirium subtype, do-not-resuscitate status at admission, admission source, and symptom burdens were not associated with neuroleptic rotation. Benzodiazepines were administered concurrently to most patients (70%). Among benzodiazepines, lorazepam was most commonly used (93%). The duration of first neuroleptic treatment, the haloperidol dose, and concurrent benzodiazepine administration were not associated with the need for second-line neuroleptic therapy.
3. Nature of second-line neuroleptic therapy
--------------------------------------------
Treatment efficacy was the most common reason for second-line neuroleptic (87%), whereas adverse events accounted for 13% of the cases. Chlorpromazine was administered to 37 patients (95%) who required second-line neuroleptic. The initial median daily chlorpromazine dose was 150 mg (IQR, 100 to 150 mg) and the median duration of second-line neuroleptic treatment was 3 days (IQR, 2 to 6 days). Only 13 patients (33%) improved after the second neuroleptic treatment. The Spearman's rank correlation between the final dose of haloperidol and various clinical measures, revealed that the MDAS at admission (correlation coefficient, 0.24; p=0.005) and duration of first-line neuroleptic treatment (correlation coefficient, --0.19, p=0.01) were significantly correlated with the final dose of haloperidol. Finally, we attempted to identify independent predictors of rotation to second-line neuroleptic treatment. We included all variables that were identified as significantly different (or nearly significant, p \< 0.10); however, we did not identify any predictors for patients that required second-line neuroleptic therapy.
Discussion
==========
We reviewed 167 APCU patients who received haloperidol as a first line neuroleptic treatment for delirium. To our knowledge, this is the first study to evaluate the practice of neuroleptic rotation in patients receiving haloperidol treatment in a palliative care setting. The 65% (172/266) frequency of delirium in APCU patients in this study resembles that in a previous report (57%) \[[@b19-crt-2013-229]\]. Haloperidol, a neuroleptic agent with potent anti-dopaminergic properties, is still considered the drug of choice for treatment of delirium in the medically ill \[[@b10-crt-2013-229],[@b20-crt-2013-229]\]. However, evidence of its effectiveness remains limited and the optimal dose has not been determined \[[@b20-crt-2013-229]\]. Although haloperidol cannot reverse delirium, it can reduce common symptoms of delirium including agitation, delusions, and hallucinations. Clinical trials evaluating haloperidol for delirium suggest that it is as effective as risperidone in patients with cancer-related delirium and comparable to olanzapine for management of delirium in a critical care setting \[[@b10-crt-2013-229],[@b21-crt-2013-229],[@b22-crt-2013-229]\]. Our study found that only 23% of patients (39/167) were rotated to another neuroleptic indicating that haloperidol effectively controlled delirium in a palliative care setting. The main reason of the patients needed to rotate neuroleptic were treatment failure (34/39, 87%) and adverse effects (5/39, 13%).
The success rate of second-line chlorpromazine was low (33%) in this study. This was probably due to the poor prognosis of delirium refractory to haloperidol. Accordingly, future studies to determine the best strategies for treatment of refractory delirium (e.g., rotation vs. addition vs. dose increase) are warranted.
Several previous studies reported that delirium was significantly associated with in-hospital death and poor prognosis \[[@b3-crt-2013-229],[@b23-crt-2013-229],[@b24-crt-2013-229]\]. Our group previously reported that the neuroleptic dose was significantly higher in agitated and mixed-type delirium than in patients with hypoactive delirium (p=0.008) \[[@b16-crt-2013-229]\]. The report of the present study did not indicate that hyperactive or mixed delirium is associated with haloperidol failure. We found that white race was another factor associated with neuroleptic rotation; however, we could not find any explanation for that finding. Language barrier might have been a possible factor. Indeed, nonwhite patients tended to have communication problems, which might have led to their receiving less aggressive care. These findings are similar to the results of our previous study of cancer pain management, in which nonwhite patients showed higher pain management barriers than white patients (p=0.02) \[[@b25-crt-2013-229]\].
It should be noted that this study had several limitations. First, the retrospective nature of this investigation limited the data that were collected, and some important clinical variables such as delirium subtype, and CAGE were absent from our cohort. Second, the study was confined to a single APCU in a comprehensive cancer center, which serves a unique patient population. Infrastructural and administrative parameters, clinical practices, and patient populations may vary considerably between different APCU facilities. Third, this study had a relatively small sample size.
Conclusion
==========
In summary, neuroleptic rotation from haloperidol was only conducted for 23% of patients with delirium and was associated with inpatient mortality and white race.
Conflict of interest relevant to this article was not reported.
Dr. Bruera is supported in part by National Institutes of Health grants RO1NR010162-01A1, RO1CA122292-01, and RO1CA124481-01. Dr. Hui is supported in part by an institutional startup grant (\#18075582). This study was also supported by the MD Anderson Cancer Center Support Grant (CA 016672). The funding sources were not involved in the conduct of the study or development of its submission. We thank Zach Bohannan in the Department of Scientific Publications at MD Anderson Cancer Center for valuable editorial assistance.
{#f1-crt-2013-229}
######
Patient characteristics
Characteristic Overall (n=167) Received second-line neuroleptic (n=39, 23%) Did not receive second-line neuroleptic (n=128, 77%) p-value
------------------------------------- ----------------- ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------
Median age (95% CI, yr) 58 (56-61) 57 (51-62) 59 (57-61) 0.4^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Gender (female) 83 (50) 14 (36) 69 (54) 0.07^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Race 0.01^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
White 113 (68) 34 (87) 79 (62)
Black 22 (13) 3 (8) 19 (15)
Hispanic 22 (13) 1 (3) 21 (16)
Asian 7 (4) 0 7 (5)
Other 3 (2) 1 (3) 2 (2)
ECOG \> 0.99^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
2 1 (1) 0 ( 1 (1)
3 44 (26) 10 (26) 34 (27)
4 122 (73) 29 (74) 93 (73)
Cancer 0.20^[c)](#tfn4-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Gastrointestinal 39 (23) 7 (18) 32 (25)
Hematologic 29 (17) 6 (15) 23 (18)
Lung 27 (16) 9 (23) 18 (14)
Breast 19 (11) 5 (13) 14 (11)
Gynecologic 16 (10) 2 (5) 14 (11)
Genitourinary 9 (5) 0 9 (7)
Sarcoma 8 (5) 2 (5) 6 (5)
Head and neck 7 (4) 4 (10) 3 (2)
Other 13 (8) 4 (10) 9 (7)
CAGE (positive) 48 (29) 11 (28) 37 (29) \> 0.99^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Median APCU stay (IQR, day) 5 (3-7) 6(4-8) 5 (3-7) 0.20^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Median MDAS at admission (IQR, day) 11 (8-18) 13 (8-26) 10 (8-17) 0.13^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Median ESAS at admission (IQR)
Pain 5 (3-8) 4.5 (3-7) 5 (3-8) 0.56^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Fatigue 6 (4-8) 7 (5-9) 6 (4-8) 0.26^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Nausea 0 (0-2) 0 (0-2) 0 (0-2) 0.41^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Depression 3 (0-5) 2 (0-5) 3 (0-5) 0.47^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Anxiety 4 (0-6) 5 (1-8) 3 (0-5.5) 0.14^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Drowsiness 3.5 (2-5.5) 3.5 (2-5) 3.5 (1-6) 0.89^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Appetite 5 (3-8) 6 (5-8) 5 (3-8) 0.11^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Wellbeing 5.5 (4-7) 6 (5-7) 5 (4-8) 0.66^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Drowsiness 3.5 (2-5.5) 3.5 (2-5) 3.5 (1-6) 0.89^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Sleep 4 (2-6) 5.5 (4-7) 3 (2-6) 0.07^[a)](#tfn2-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
DNR at admission (yes) 151 (90) 36 (92) 115 (90) \> 0.99^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Discharge status (alive) 107 (64) 16 (41) 91 (71) \< 0.01^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Admission type 0.16^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Transfer 92 (55) 25 (64) 67 (52)
Emergency center 58 (35) 13 (33) 45 (35)
Outpatient 17 (10) 1 (3) 16 (13)
Discharge type 0.01^[b)](#tfn3-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Home or home hospice 52 (31) 7 (18) 45 (35)
Inpatient hospice 49 (29) 8 (21) 41 (32)
Other hospital 6 (4) 1 (3) 5 (4)
Inpatient mortality 60 (36) 23 (59) 37 (29)
Values are presented as number (% or range). CI, confidence interval; ECOG, Eastern Cooperative Oncology Group performance status; CAGE, cut down, annoying, guilty, eye-opener; APCU, acute palliative care unit; IQR, interquartile ranges; MDAS, Memorial Delirium Assessment Scale; ESAS, Edmonton Symptom Assessment Scale; DNR, do not resuscitate.
Kruskal-Wallis test,
Fisher exact test,
Chi-square test.
######
Delirium characteristics and treatment in patients with and without the need for second-line neuroleptic
Characteristic Rotated (n=39, 23.4%) Not rotated (n=128, 76.6%) p-value
----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- ---------------------------- --------- --------------------------------------------------------
Delirium subtype 0.46^[a)](#tfn6-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Hyperactive and mixed 23 (59) 63 (52)
Hypoactive 16 (41) 59 (48)
Median initial haloperidol dose (mg) 6 (5-7) 5 (4-6) 0.12^[b)](#tfn7-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Overall 5 (5-7)
Median duration of haloperidol (day) 4 (2-6) 5 (4-7) 0.06^[b)](#tfn7-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Overall 5.6 (5.1-6.1)
Median final haloperidol dose (mg) 6 (5-8) 6 (5-7) 0.13^[b)](#tfn7-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Overall 6.4 (5.9-7.0)
Improvement of delirium after first-line neuroleptic treatment (yes) 2 (5) 73 (57) \< 0.01^[a)](#tfn6-crt-2013-229){ref-type="table-fn"}^
Reason for neuroleptic rotation \-
Non-efficacy 34 (87) \-
Adverse event 5 (13) \-
Median initial chlorpromazine dose (mg) 150 (100-150) \- \-
Median duration of chlorpromazine (day) 3 (2-6) \- \-
Median HEDD at the final second-line neuroleptic treatment (mg) 12 (8-16) \- \-
Improvement of delirium after second-line neuroleptic treatment (yes) 13 (33) \- \-
Values are presented as number (% or interquartile ranges). HEDD, haloperidol equivalent daily dose.
Fisher exact test,
Kruskal-Wallis test.
|
---
abstract: 'A challenge for scaling up quantum processors using frequency-crowded, weakly anharmonic qubits is to drive individual qubits without causing leakage into non-computational levels of the others, while also minimizing the number of control lines. To address this, we implement single-qubit Wah-Wah control in a circuit QED processor with a single feedline for all transmon qubits, operating at the maximum gate speed achievable given the frequency crowding. Randomized benchmarking and quantum process tomography confirm alternating qubit control with $\leq1\%$ average error per computational step and decoherence-limited idling of one qubit while driving another with a Wah-Wah pulse train.'
author:
- 'V. Vesterinen'
- 'O.-P. Saira'
- 'A. Bruno'
- 'L. DiCarlo'
bibliography:
- '../../../TeX/References/References\_cQED.bib'
title: Mitigating information leakage in a crowded spectrum of weakly anharmonic qubits
---
Experimental quantum computing [@Ladd10] seldom employs true qubits. Most architectures use effective qubits defined by a pair of energy levels within a multi-level quantum object (typically the ground and first excited states, labelled ${\left\lvert 0 \right\rangle}$ and ${\left\lvert 1 \right\rangle}$). Examples include non-spin-1/2 electron and nuclear spins [@Hanson08], electronic levels in atoms and ions [@Monroe13], photons with combined polarization, frequency and positional degrees of freedom [@Lanyon09], and most superconducting quantum circuits [@Devoret13]. The transmon [@Koch07], phase [@Martinis02] and capacitively-shunted flux [@Steffen10] qubits are weakly anharmonic oscillators with logical transition frequency ${\omega_{01}}$ and nearest leakage transition frequency ${\omega_{12}}$ detuned by $|\Delta|=|{\omega_{12}}-{\omega_{01}}| \sim 0.1 \times {\omega_{01}}$. In these superconducting systems, temporarily occupying levels outside the computational subspace offers the key to fast and efficient multi-qubit operations such as conditional-phase [@Strauch03; @DiCarlo09] and Toffoli gates [@Fedorov11; @Reed12], and high-fidelity single-shot readout [@Mallet09].
The benefits of using multi-level structures for quantum computing are balanced by more challenging single-qubit control. When driving an individual effective qubit with a resonant pulse at ${\omega_{01}}$, the anharmonicity $|\Delta|$ imposes a practical limit on the maximum speed of gate operations, marking the transition from decoherence- to leakage-dominated errors. While theoretical optimal control has broken the speed limit using non-analytic pulses [@Motzoi09], analytic pulses with few tuning parameters are preferred by experimentalists for ease of implementation and tuning. Keeping leakage-induced errors below the $1\%$ fault-tolerance threshold of modern error-correcting schemes [@Fowler12] imposes the necessary but insufficient condition ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}\gtrsim 2\pi/|\Delta|$ on the single-qubit gate time ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}$. Interestingly, the standard Gaussian envelope is insufficient despite satisfying the minimal time-frequency uncertainty product. Proposed [@Motzoi09; @Gambetta11; @Motzoi13] DRAG (Derivative Removal by Adiabatic Gate) pulses combining Gaussian and derivative-of-Gaussian envelopes on the in- and out-of-phase quadratures have been widely adopted following validation with phase [@Lucero10] and transmon [@Chow10b] qubits in one- and two-qubit devices. To date, the combination of DRAG and improved coherence has achieved average single-qubit gate errors of $0.08\%$ in transmon qubits [@Barends14a].
Moving forward, it is imperative to preserve high-quality single-qubit control as more effective qubits are crowded in a fixed frequency range. In architectures such as 2D [@Wallraff04] and 3D [@Paik11] circuit QED which exploit a common feedline or coupled resonator to drive multiple qubits, control drives couple almost equally to addressed and unadressed qubits. In this regime of near-unity cross-talk, the absolute detuning $|\delta|$ between the logical transition of one qubit and the leakage transition of its frequency neighbor sets an even lower speed limit when $|\delta|<|\Delta|$. In order to ease coherence time requirements, it is therefore important to design analytic pulses with ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}\sim 2\pi/|\delta|$ which avoid leakage in both the addressed qubit and its neighbor (henceforth termed internal and external leakage). To this end, Schutjens *et al.* [@Schutjens13] have recently developed Wah-Wah control (Weak AnHarmonicity With Average Hamiltonian), combining DRAG with sideband modulation in a four-parameter pulse.
In this article, we present the experimental validation of leakage-avoiding Wah-Wah control at the speed limit of a multi-transmon 2D circuit QED processor. We create a bias condition with $\delta/2\pi= 57~{\mathrm{MHz}}$ and demonstrate avoidance of both external and internal leakage at gate times $16~{\mathrm{ns}}\leq{t_{\mathrm{g}}}\leq 24~{\mathrm{ns}}$. Stroboscopic population measurements show that DRAG-only pulsing induces significant net population in the third level of the unaddressed transmon, while Wah-Wah ensures all population returns to the computational subspace by the end of the pulse. Using a variant of standard randomized benchmarking [@Knill08], we show alternating individual control of both qubits with $0.8-1.0\%$ average error per computational step. Finally, we use quantum process tomography to demonstrate decoherence-limited idling of the unaddressed qubit as the other undergoes a Wah-Wah pulse train. Optimization of the four-parameter, analytic Wah-Wah pulse shape is straightforward and accelerated by a simple model of the system Hamiltonian using independently measured parameters. Our results establish Wah-Wah control as an important tool for scalability, allowing control of frequency-crowded effective qubits at threshold without dedicated control lines.
![(color online). (a) Energy level diagram for transmons ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ and ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ (not to scale). The ground ${\left\lvert 0_k \right\rangle}$ and first-excited ${\left\lvert 1_k \right\rangle}$ states of $Q_k$ define a qubit subspace. The ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ qubit transition frequency and the ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ leakage transition frequency differ by $\delta={\omega_{12}^b}-{\omega_{01}^a}=2\pi \times 57~{\mathrm{MHz}}$. (b-c) Comparison of in- and out-of-phase quadrature envelopes $\Omega_I$ and $\Omega_Q$, respectively, for optimized DRAG and Wah-Wah $\pi/2$ pulses on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ (gate time ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}=16~{\mathrm{ns}}$). For DRAG (b), $\Omega_I$ and $\Omega_Q$ are Gaussian and derivative-of-Gaussian, respectively \[Eqs. (1)-(2) with $\sigma=4~{\mathrm{ns}}$, ${A_m}=0$, $\beta=0.6~{\mathrm{ns}}$\]. For Wah-Wah (c), ${A_m}=0.9$, ${\omega_m}/2\pi=25~{\mathrm{MHz}}$, $\beta=1.85~{\mathrm{ns}}$. ](Figure1)
We focus on two transmons (${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ and ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$) within a four-transmon, five-resonator 2D cQED processor of similar design to that of Ref. . Resonant control and readout pulses for all qubits are applied via one feedline coupling to readout resonators connecting to one qubit each. Using local flux control, we bias ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ and ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ to logical transitions $\left({\omega_{01}^a},{\omega_{01}^b}\right)/2\pi=\left(6.347, 6.750\right)~{\mathrm{GHz}}$, and corresponding leakage transitions $\left({\omega_{12}^a},{\omega_{12}^b}\right)/2\pi=\left(5.980, 6.404\right)~{\mathrm{GHz}}$, making $\delta={\omega_{12}^b}-{\omega_{01}^a}=2\pi \times 57~{\mathrm{MHz}}$ \[Fig. 1(a)\]. Thus, we expect [@Schutjens13] DRAG pulses \[Fig. 1(b)\] targeting ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ to induce significant leakage from ${\left\lvert 1_b \right\rangle}$ to ${\left\lvert 2_b \right\rangle}$ for ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}\lesssim 2\pi/\delta \sim 20~{\mathrm{ns}}$. Indeed, we note that just four back-to-back ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ DRAG $\pi$ pulses already leak $\sim50\%$ of the initial population in ${\left\lvert 1_b \right\rangle}$ to ${\left\lvert 2_b \right\rangle}$ for ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}=16~{\mathrm{ns}}$ (Fig. 2). Note that to within the few-percent accuracy limited by state preparation and measurement errors (SPAM), DRAG pulses do successfully avoid internal leakage in ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$, as expected [@Motzoi09].
Using similar measurements, we now attempt to also avoid external leakage using the additional sideband modulation characteristic of Wah-Wah pulse envelopes \[Fig. 1(c)\] [@Schutjens13]: $$\begin{aligned}
\label{eq:wahx}
&&\Omega_I(t)=A_\theta e^{-(t-\frac{{t_{\mathrm{g}}}}{2})^2/(2\sigma^2)}\left[ 1-{A_m}\cos \left({\omega_m}\left(t-\frac{{t_{\mathrm{g}}}}{2}\right)\right)\right]\nonumber\\
\\
\label{eq:wahy}
&&\Omega_Q(t)=\beta \dot{\Omega}_I(t).\end{aligned}$$ Here, $\Omega_I$ and $\Omega_Q$ are the pulse envelopes in the in- and out-of-phase quadratures, and amplitude $A_\theta$ determines the rotation angle $\theta$. The theory predicts that sideband modulation of the conventional Gaussian envelope in $\Omega_I$ can mitigate external leakage for suitably chosen modulation amplitude ${A_m}$ and frequency ${\omega_m}$. Just as in DRAG, keeping $\Omega_Q$ proportional to the time derivative of $\Omega_I$ should prevent internal leakage in ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ upon optimizing the scaling parameter $\beta$. Figure 2 provides the experimental confirmation of external and internal leakage mitigation to within the accuracy allowed by SPAM. ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ Wah-Wah $\pi$ pulses with manually-optimized ${A_m}$, ${\omega_m}$, ${A_{\pi}}$, and $\beta$ populate ${\left\lvert 2_b \right\rangle}$ only temporarily, returning all population to ${\left\lvert 1_b \right\rangle}$ by the end of each pulse. (Details of the Wah-Wah pulse tune-up procedure are provided in the Supplement [@SOM]). A numerical simulation of the system dynamics, which truncates the Hamiltonian at three levels per transmon, shows good correspondence with the manually optimized pulse parameters. To test its utility, we used the simulation to obtain first estimates of pulse parameters at two other ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ bias points with even tighter separation of their logical frequencies ($\delta/2\pi=-60~{\mathrm{MHz}}$ and $-80~{\mathrm{MHz}}$). We also obtained similar internal and external leakage mitigation for ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}=16~{\mathrm{ns}}$ (data not shown).
While Wah-Wah pulsing on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ successfully mitigates net leakage in ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$, the temporary excursion of quantum amplitude from ${\left\lvert 1_b \right\rangle}$ to ${\left\lvert 2_b \right\rangle}$ induces a relative phase between levels ${\left\lvert 0_b \right\rangle}$ and ${\left\lvert 1_b \right\rangle}$, i.e., a $z$ rotation in the ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ qubit subspace. This induced phase is a deterministic function of the ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ pulse parameters defined above. Thus, we can compensate it already in pulse synthesis by adjusting the phase of all subsequent ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ pulses, in the style of virtual $z$ gates [@Steffen00]. To calibrate the phase shift, we embed several consecutive Wah-Wah ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ pulses (either all $\pi$ or $\pi/2$) into the second wait period in a standard echo sequence on ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ ($\pi/2$, wait, $\pi$, wait, $\pi/2$). The final $\pi/2$ rotation translates the acquired phase into a population difference between ${\left\lvert 0_b \right\rangle}$ and ${\left\lvert 1_b \right\rangle}$. We observe that the induced ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ phase is independent of rotation axis and linear in the number of ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ pulses of a given type: $8.2^\circ$ ($38^\circ$) per $\pi/2$ ($\pi$) pulse. We perform a similar calibration of compensating $z$ gates on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ for DRAG pulses applied to ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$. Even though $\left({\omega_{12}^a}-{\omega_{01}^b}\right)/2\pi=-770~{\mathrm{MHz}}$ and ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ DRAG pulsing does not produce ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ leakage (shown below), there is phase accrual in the ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ qubit subspace: $2.5^\circ$ ($9.3^\circ$) per $\pi/2$ ($\pi$) pulse.
In order to test both leakage mitigation and phase compensation to higher accuracy than allowed by SPAM, we employ randomized benchmarking (RB). The single-qubit protocol first proposed and implemented by Knill *et al.* [@Knill08] (standard RB) provides a valuable baseline for gate errors on the addressed qubit, without concern for the unaddressed one. In standard RB [@Knill08; @Chow09], one applies pseudo-random sequences of consecutive $\pi$ and $\pi/2$ pulses to ${\mathrm{Q}_{k}}$ and measures the decay of fidelity to the ideal final state of that qubit (always ${\left\lvert 0_k \right\rangle}$ or ${\left\lvert 1_k \right\rangle}$) as the number of pulses is increased \[Fig. 3(a)\]. This decay allows extracting [@Magesan12; @SOM] the average error per computational step (${\mathrm{EPS}}$), where computational step is defined as a pair of back-to-back $\pi$ and $\pi/2$ pulses [@Knill08]. We extract ${\mathrm{EPS}}$ as a function of the step time ${t_{\mathrm{s}}}=2({t_{\mathrm{g}}}+{t_{\mathrm{b}}})$ by varying the buffer time ${t_{\mathrm{b}}}$ between pulses (${t_{\mathrm{b}}}\geq 2~{\mathrm{ns}}$). To within statistical error, a linear fit of ${\mathrm{EPS}}({t_{\mathrm{s}}})$ for ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ (${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$) at short ${t_{\mathrm{s}}}$ extrapolates to the origin \[Figs. 3(b)-(c)\]. This observation suggests that the minimal $0.4\%$ ($0.4\%$) ${\mathrm{EPS}}$ is already decoherence limited.
![(color online). ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ average gate fidelity to the identity operation during various types of idling: no ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ pulsing, ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ DRAG RB, and ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ Wah-Wah RB. (a) Pulse sequence. Initial and final rotations on ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ are used for QPT of the evolution of ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ qubit state to the three-level subspace. Results are shown for gate times (b) ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}=16~{\mathrm{ns}}$, (c) $20~{\mathrm{ns}}$, and (d) $24~{\mathrm{ns}}$ (${t_{\mathrm{b}}}=2~{\mathrm{ns}}$ fixed). Model curves for true idling take into account the measured ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ qubit relaxation and dephasing times [@SOM]. The model assumes dephasing dominated by $1/f$ noise [@Yoshihara06]. The ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ average gate fidelity to identity during ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ Wah-Wah RB (circles) is indistinguishable from that of true idling. In contrast, ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ DRAG RB (triangles) deteriorates fidelity at shorter ${t_{\mathrm{i}}}$. ](Figure4)
With the ${\mathrm{EPS}}$ baselines from standard RB in place, we now employ alternating RB to investigate whether control of either qubit can remain decoherence limited when pulses are interleaved on the other. We apply an RB pulse on one qubit during the buffer (${t_{\mathrm{b}}}\geq {t_{\mathrm{g}}}+4~{\mathrm{ns}}$) for the other, and perform virtual $z$-gate compensation for all pulses. Alternating RB performed with DRAG pulses on both ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ and ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ has no impact on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$, but increases the ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ ${\mathrm{EPS}}$ to $\sim5\%$ \[Fig. 3(b)\]. However, by using Wah-Wah pulses on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$, we recover the decoherence limited baselines simultaneously on both qubits. Similar results for ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}=20~{\mathrm{ns}}$ and $24~{\mathrm{ns}}$ are presented in the Supplement [@SOM].
As the final test of whether Wah-Wah pulsing on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ affects ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$, we perform quantum process tomography (QPT) of ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ under various idling conditions: no pulses on ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ (true idling), ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ DRAG RB, and ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ Wah-Wah RB (Fig. 4). The process map is a $9\times 4$ transfer matrix [@Chow12] relating an initial reduced density matrix in the ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ qubit subspace to a final reduced density matrix in the three-level [@Bianchetti10] subspace. The ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ average gate fidelity to identity for true idling decreases consistently with an analytic model [@SOM] based on measured ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ relaxation and dephasing rates. As expected, ${\mathrm{Q}_{b}}$ idling is compromised under ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ DRAG RB, and worsens the shorter ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}$. An analysis discerning contributions from population transfer and dephasing errors [@SOM] confirms that the loss of idling fidelity is limited by induced leakage and not by imperfect $z$-gate compensation. Remarkably, the idling fidelity under ${\mathrm{Q}_{a}}$ Wah-Wah RB is nearly identical to the true idling fidelity for all ${t_{\mathrm{g}}}$, further demonstrating the usefulness of the new control method.
In summary, we have shown experimentally, using level-population measurements, RB, and QPT, that Wah-Wah control [@Schutjens13] successfully mitigates crosstalk-induced leakage in a crowded spectrum of transmon qubits at gate times where the widely-adopted DRAG control fails. Wah-Wah control therefore represents a step towards scalability in multi-qubit architectures by allowing selective control of an increasing number of effective qubits without an equal addition of control lines. Wah-Wah builds sideband modulation to DRAG without sacrificing the analytic nature of the two-quadrature pulse shape, adding only two easily optimized parameters. Our demonstration in circuit QED takes place in the worst-case regime of unity crosstalk, with control pulses applied via one common feedline coupling equally to the addressed qubit and the unaddressed nearest-frequency neighbor. Looking forwards, as two-qubit gate and measurement times [@Sank14] decrease to that of single-qubit gates, the current restriction to non-overlapping control of frequency-neighboring qubits could ultimately bottleneck the clock cycle in surface-code quantum error correction [@Fowler12]. A useful generalization of Wah-Wah, however, would allow simultaneous control of two qubits at small $\left|\delta\right|$.
We thank D. J. Egger, R. Schutjens and F. K. Wilhelm for many helpful discussions, N. K. Langford and D. Ristè for helpful comments on the manuscript, and D. J. Thoen and T. M. Klapwijk for NbTiN thin films. This work is funded by EU FP7 project SCALEQIT, the Netherlands Organization for Scientific Research (NWO, VIDI scheme), and a Marie Curie Career Integration Grant. V.V. was supported by the Research Foundation of Helsinki University of Technology.
|
// pathfinder/demo/common/src/window.rs
//
// Copyright © 2019 The Pathfinder Project Developers.
//
// Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0 <LICENSE-APACHE or
// http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0> or the MIT license
// <LICENSE-MIT or http://opensource.org/licenses/MIT>, at your
// option. This file may not be copied, modified, or distributed
// except according to those terms.
//! A minimal cross-platform windowing layer.
use pathfinder_geometry::rect::RectI;
use pathfinder_geometry::transform3d::{Perspective, Transform4F};
use pathfinder_geometry::vector::Vector2I;
use pathfinder_resources::ResourceLoader;
use rayon::ThreadPoolBuilder;
use std::path::PathBuf;
#[cfg(all(target_os = "macos", not(feature = "pf-gl")))]
use io_surface::IOSurfaceRef;
#[cfg(all(target_os = "macos", not(feature = "pf-gl")))]
use metal::Device as MetalDevice;
#[cfg(all(target_os = "macos", not(feature = "pf-gl")))]
use pathfinder_metal::MetalDevice as PathfinderMetalDevice;
#[cfg(any(not(target_os = "macos"), feature = "pf-gl"))]
use gl::types::GLuint;
#[cfg(any(not(target_os = "macos"), feature = "pf-gl"))]
use pathfinder_gl::{GLDevice, GLVersion};
pub trait Window {
#[cfg(any(not(target_os = "macos"), feature = "pf-gl"))]
fn gl_version(&self) -> GLVersion;
#[cfg(any(not(target_os = "macos"), feature = "pf-gl"))]
fn gl_default_framebuffer(&self) -> GLuint { 0 }
#[cfg(any(not(target_os = "macos"), feature = "pf-gl"))]
fn present(&mut self, device: &mut GLDevice);
#[cfg(all(target_os = "macos", not(feature = "pf-gl")))]
fn metal_device(&self) -> MetalDevice;
#[cfg(all(target_os = "macos", not(feature = "pf-gl")))]
fn metal_io_surface(&self) -> IOSurfaceRef;
#[cfg(all(target_os = "macos", not(feature = "pf-gl")))]
fn present(&mut self, device: &mut PathfinderMetalDevice);
fn make_current(&mut self, view: View);
fn viewport(&self, view: View) -> RectI;
fn resource_loader(&self) -> &dyn ResourceLoader;
fn create_user_event_id(&self) -> u32;
fn push_user_event(message_type: u32, message_data: u32);
fn present_open_svg_dialog(&mut self);
fn run_save_dialog(&self, extension: &str) -> Result<PathBuf, ()>;
fn adjust_thread_pool_settings(&self, builder: ThreadPoolBuilder) -> ThreadPoolBuilder {
builder
}
}
pub enum Event {
Quit,
WindowResized(WindowSize),
KeyDown(Keycode),
KeyUp(Keycode),
MouseDown(Vector2I),
MouseMoved(Vector2I),
MouseDragged(Vector2I),
Zoom(f32, Vector2I),
Look {
pitch: f32,
yaw: f32,
},
SetEyeTransforms(Vec<OcularTransform>),
OpenData(DataPath),
User {
message_type: u32,
message_data: u32,
},
}
#[derive(Clone, Copy)]
pub enum Keycode {
Alphanumeric(u8),
Escape,
Tab,
}
#[derive(Clone, Copy, Debug)]
pub struct WindowSize {
pub logical_size: Vector2I,
pub backing_scale_factor: f32,
}
impl WindowSize {
#[inline]
pub fn device_size(&self) -> Vector2I {
(self.logical_size.to_f32() * self.backing_scale_factor).to_i32()
}
}
#[derive(Clone, Copy, Debug)]
pub enum View {
Mono,
Stereo(u32),
}
#[derive(Clone, Copy, Debug)]
pub struct OcularTransform {
// The perspective which converts from camera coordinates to display coordinates
pub perspective: Perspective,
// The view transform which converts from world coordinates to camera coordinates
pub modelview_to_eye: Transform4F,
}
#[derive(Clone)]
pub enum DataPath {
Default,
Resource(String),
Path(PathBuf),
}
|
Ottawa’s Urban Green from the Bike
Ottawa’s Urban Green from the Bike
Often, when I cycle through Ottawa, I wonder how people from elsewhere figure out where to cycle. A paper map is one source, Google maps another one, but that is about it. The NCC has put out signs to point to side streets or to show the name and direction of a path, and the City of Ottawa has put up some signs here and there, but there is little else. If you have never been to Ottawa before, and you plan to cycle, it can be daunting.
It is probably part of the growing pains of a ‘bike friendly’ city, where we are building the infrastructure, struggle with sharrows and miss a lot of safe links between otherwise nice paths. I am a strong believer in developing Ottawa as a cycling destination. The potential is there with lots of destinations within cycling distance, an increasing number of bike lanes, quiet neighbourhoods and the NCC’s multi-use pathways. But, on the ground it is hard to figure out where to go.
It is a problem that Maria Rasouli decided to do something about. But not by putting up signs. She decided to set up a company called Escape Bicycle Tours to tour people around, so they won’t have to take a look on a map at every corner and every fork in the road. Customers also know they will be cycling a safe route. Bonus: Maria takes you past the Governor General’s visitor’s centre and passes the Museum of History in Quebec, so that visitors can come back on their own.
But if you want to go strawberry picking in the countryside with Maria that can be arranged too. Or a multi-day tour to Kingston for example.
The Rideau River Pathway meanders through a number of parks.
I met Maria for a tour through Urban Green Ottawa on mostly separated bike infrastructure. On a sunny day mid-June, we met in front of the Westin. Normally, people pick up their bikes at Rentabike underneath the old railway station, but I brought my own bike. (a penny saved is a penny earned).
Entering Vincent Massey Park
We cycled to the Byward market, and then crossed King Edward to find our way via the Minto bridges to the Governor General’s house. There, Maria gives you some time off to visit the info centre and check out the fountain and rose beds just north of MacKay St. (Maria told me people just like to cycle along and are not actually asking many questions, so don’t expect to stop for much explanation on what you see. Mostly people appear content with Maria showing the way). After the GG we got to the Rideau River and cycled southbound on the east side, with nice vistas on the Rideau River part of the way.
The Vincent Massey eco washrooms
Further south, the path goes through a treed area to end up at the Bank Street intersection (careful here, highest accident rate in Ottawa). After a few hundred meters, we entered Vincent Massey Park. If you are interested in architecture, you should ask Maria to show you the mid century modern buildings in the park that were recently renovated as well as the new washroom buildings, with roofs that collect water for the washroom. The water runs down the roof into a riverstone patch and from there in storage tanks.
More symmetry: the water runs off into a tank underneath the boulders.
Now we are approaching Hog’s Back Falls. In the past people used to dive off the rocks there. You can see that in the old clip of the National Film board (11 minutes) . Talking about innocent post war Ottawa….
This is also the place where the Rideau River and the Rideau Canal (A world heritage site) come together, or better, split, as the water flows north.
The Hartwell Locks are a really nice place for a break. On Sunday Bike Days, there are line ups to cross the locks.
You can cross the falls and at the other end you’ll be cycling back north along the canal’s busy bike paths.
On our way to the Fletcher Wildlife Garden, run by volunteers
Eventually you’ll see the tower of Carleton U and that is also where the Hartwell Locks are. This is where Maria crosses the canal to get to the Fletcher Wildlife Garden off Prince of Wales. What a gem. I had never been there, even though I had been passing it on my way to work for years.
The Fletcher not-so-wild-garden, is part of the Fletcher Wildlife Garden.It is not a Moose, but wildlife it is in the Fletcher garden.Lots of plants in the shaded nursery at Fletcher’s.
Then, after lingering in the garden and visiting the info centre, we descended towards the bottom part of the Arboretum and cycled towards Preston Street along the canal again.
This stretch of the Trillium pathway will be paved soon, after the initial idea was to just put gravel in there. That is OK, but only when you maintain it, else it is better to pave it.
In the future, this path will directly connect to the Trillium Pathway (aka the O-train pathway), with cross rides (as supposed to cross walks or nothing) on Prince of Wales and Carling Ave. We, however, had to do a bit of maneuvering to get to the Trillium pathway.
Desserts at Simply Biscotti on Preston off the Trillium Pathway
The desserts at Simply Biscotti on Preston are irresistible so we decided to stop there for a well deserved break. We actually approached it from the Trillium pathway via George St. W.
Simply Biscotti’s patio is somewhat bare, but better than plastic grapevines from the Dollar Store.
We continued along the Trillium Path towards the Ottawa River where we set goodbye as it was a bit shorter for me to head home from here then going back to the Westin. Had we finished the tour we would have crossed the Ottawa River, passed the Museum of History (the museum formerly known as the Museum of Civilization formerly known as the Museum of Mankind) and cross the river again past the National Art Gallery back to our starting point.
The pathway across near the War museum.
Initiatives such as Escape Bicycle Tours are a great addition to Ottawa. Maria told me she has had interest from as far as Norway and the US. Clearly, there is a demand out there to cycle in Ottawa, a city that put ‘complete streets’ policy in their Strategic Initiatives) . This is only one of the tours Maria organizes. She specializes in somewhat less standard cycling tours. My guided tour of course is one that many people can do.
The 30 km ride is more or less a loop around downtown Ottawa. As a bonus you’ll ride through another province.
If you are visitng Ottawa and want to spend a day cycling, Maria is your woman. It is also great to send your visiting mother-in-law away for a day. |
A pair of videos have emerged containing images of Washington coach Jay Gruden. The team, according to NBCSportsWashington.com, has no comment on the videos.
One video shows Jay Gruden smoking while someone chants his name. Gruden seems to adopt a look of exasperation when he realizes that he’s being recorded. In another video, he’s sitting on the ground talking to a woman.
Some have speculated that Gruden is smoking marijuana in the first video, but it’s hardly definitive. Some in league circles wonder whether the team leaked the videos as a precursor to a potential termination of Gruden with cause, which would allow the team to fire him without paying the balance of his salary.
Last week, the Washington Post reported that Gruden could be fired following a loss to the Giants. Some believe he’s on a week-to-week arrangement with the team.
Coincidentally or not, the videos emerged on the same day Gruden declared that veteran journeyman Colt McCoy will start at quarterback on Sunday against the Patriots, over rookie first-rounder Dwayne Haskins. |
52
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|
" Hi, Sarge." " AI." "What are you doing up at this hour?" " Night shift." " Want the usual?" "Just some milk." "How's McQ?" "Haven't seen him lately." "You know, Lon and his boat." "He's living on it." "How's the gut?" "It's not bad." "Good." "I got something cooking out back." " You need anything, give a holler." " Right." "Hello." "Nuts." "Yeah?" "Lon, J.C., did you hear?" "What?" "I'm sorry, Lon." "Stan went down this morning." " How bad?" "Shotgun in the back." "He's in Harborview." "They're working on him there." "Get Doc Merar over there." "He's here." " Lois would like to see you." "How's she doing?" "Gutsy." "Holding up." "Don't leave her alone." "Get a policewoman with her." "Now, what happened?" "Don't know." "No witnesses." "Coffee shop guy heard the blast, but didn't see a thing." "Well, pull the package on Manny Santiago." "I want an intelligence update on him, and I want to see Stan's log." "Lon, two other officers got taken off, too." "Nine millimeter." "Beat man named Hyatt and Wally Johnson." "You know, he works the night watch in Property." "Yeah." "Kosterman thinks it's militants." "See you." "Hold it!" " All right, now." "Just stay back." " Don't worry." "You know him, Lieutenant?" "Patty Samuels." "I know him." "He's a hit man." "He was waiting for me." "Pete, call the medical examiner." "I better have that for the inquest, Lieutenant." "Hey, mister, that was a hell of a shot." "I called the cops for you." "Yeah, thanks." " You saw what happened?" " I saw you shoot him." " And before that?" " I saw him blasting away at you." "Good." "Now I want you to repeat what you saw... just exactly the way it happened." " Hey, look, I don't wanna get involved." " You already are." "I have a tape recorder here." " Are you a cop?" " Yeah." "Tell him what happened." "Officer, witness this." " Well, hell, I was just on my way to work..." " Name and address first." "My name is James Carter, and I live at 1131 N. 74th." "I was on my way to work this morning... when I saw this guy trying to break into this car, some young kid." "And then this guy came out and chased him away... and this other guy started shooting at him, see." "And then the first guy blasted him." "You know, it was a hell of a shot." " Lon." " Stan's tough, Lois." "Don't forget it." " How bad?" " Critical." "He liked to work, Lon." "He thought being a cop was the greatest." "Well, he's still a cop, and he's still gonna be one." "Sure." "I'm not surprised he was shot." "I've been expecting it." "All wives expect it these days, don't you know that?" "Some crazy getting it off, a radical doing his number." "We don't have to talk about it now." "You've got some questions, though, haven't you?" "Well, another time." "It's all right." "Police work never stops, does it?" "I'm sorry, Lon." "What do you wanna know?" "I know he was taking you to a show last night." "How did he end up alone?" "He got a call." "From whom?" "I don't know, but it was important." "I could see his face." "I could feel the tightening in his stomach." "You know how he was." " Did you hear what was said?" " Just pieces." "Well, I have a feeling it had something to do with... the drive on against the dealers." "Just a feeling, that's all." "The department dries up the city, someone tries to dry up Stan." "Any names mentioned?" "Manny Santiago's, for instance?" "No." "I would have remembered that for sure." "Lois, I hate to, but I'm just gonna to have to go." " Can I call somebody, a friend?" " Lon, don't baby me." "I'm tough, too, remember?" "We'll all be back out on that boat again soon." "You'll see." "I'll be back as soon as I can." "Calling Dr. Denon." "Okay, let's go." "Everybody out." "Hold it down in there!" " Good morning, Captain." " Good morning." "I'm in the communications center right now." "Yeah." "Capt. Kosterman just walked in." "Yes, sir." "Chief, the mayor wants to see you." " Tell him I'm on my way." " He's on his way." "All right, Ed." "It's your ball game." "I want your best people on this, and I want quick action." "Yes, sir." "This gets top priority." "If there's anything you need, just ask." "I'll talk to you when I get back." " How's Stan?" " He's hanging in there." "Boy, that's rough." "Homicide's looking for you." "They want your papers on the Patty Samuels thing." "And the captain's looking for you." "I think you've got him worried." "I put Stan's log on your desk and the Santiago stuff." "All the same." "Arrested on a felony, booked on a misdemeanor, released." " Yeah, he beats them all." " Yeah." "I got us fight tickets for Thursday." "Don't suppose we'll be needing them now." "My schedule will be busy." "See you." "You know, your Green Hornet is an attractive nuisance." "Someday, somebody's gonna rip it off." "Maybe me." "You can have the payments, too." " Capt. Kosterman wants to see you." " Dean." "Have one of the girls type that up, will you?" "Good morning, Frank." "Watching Kosterman's show?" "Sorry about Stan." "How is he doing?" " He's trying." " Yeah." "Listen, if there's anything I can do for him, for Lois, you'll let me know, will you?" "Thanks." "Hey, McQ." "What is this asinine police crap?" "This is illegal arrest, man." "This is unconstitutional, and you damn well know it." "This whole damn place is coming down, you know that?" "You pigs will be out of work, but don't worry." "We'll put you on welfare." "That's all your stinking job is anyway." "Come on, pig." "Shoot me." "Pull your piece and blow me up right here." "What's the matter?" "No guts?" "Chicken?" "God!" " What happened?" " He bumped into a chair." "Chair?" "Good morning." " Almost got you." " Close enough." " You know how I feel about this." " I saw the hallways." "Garbage." "The whole place smells like rotten cheese." "We're gonna have to fumigate." "Ed, I think we should be looking for something else." "I'm willing to look at anything." "But uniformed officers shot down in the streets... that smells like radicals to me." "How about Patty Samuels unloading on me?" "That's not radical." "Somebody thought Stan had told me something." "You're still harping on that Santiago thing." "Why not?" "Ed, I want this case." "No, not this one." "I already put Burt on it." "Stan and you are too close friends." "You know how the department feels about that." "Emotional involvement clouds clear judgment." "We both know all you have to do is just say the word." "Well, I'm not saying it." "Lon, I know you." "I'm not gonna stand for you making up your own rules." "You're not gonna play that Mickey Peters thing all over again." "Peters was a hood, and everybody knew it." "You weren't satisfied with throwing him up on the roof." "You had to go up there and throw him back down." "Six months in the hospital... four lawyers screaming about his civil rights." "Well, it kept him off the street, didn't it?" "Yeah, and that's why I'm behind a desk and you're taking orders from me." "Now, cool it." " Telephone, Captain." " Thank you." "Lon, cool it." "Don't go away." "I'm not finished yet." "Capt. Kosterman." "No." "All press inquiries go to Chief Grogan's desk." "That goes for lawyers, too." "No, I don't want to talk to them." "Capt. Bennerman, Internal Affairs." " Good morning, Mr. Santiago." " Good morning." " Bob, I thought you'd be in court today." " No, that's tomorrow." "I was worried about the detective who was shot last night." "I'm afraid there may be repercussions." "Why should that be?" "I did not shoot him." "I was on an overnight plane from Mexico City." "I know that, Manuel." "But it's my responsibility to caution you... about the possibility of harassment." " Good morning, Mr. Santiago." " Good morning, Chris." "Harassment." "Such a nice lawyer's word." "Thank you, Bob." "You're very conscientious." "How is he?" "Critical." "Shame." "... handling the modern supertankers, eliminating the need for ships to travel." "Detective Sgt. Stan Boyle died late this morning... at Harborview Hospital... victim of shotgun wounds sustained early this morning." "Boyle's assailant remains at large." "Police investigations continue." "This is your weather girl, Barbara Bogey... with today's report on Seattle and vicinities." "High today in the upper 50s." "Low overnight 42." "Cloudy, clearing in the late afternoon." "What was just on the news?" "Sorry." "I wasn't paying any attention." "The detective that got shot this morning, he died." "... 400 miles off the coast of British Columbia... with a cold front extending west-southwest..." "Two climbers from Washington state are reported missing..." "So, one less detective to worry about." "Yeah, one less detective to worry about." "I got a message from Patty Samuels." "He's sorry he blew it on McQ, but he rang it up with Boyle." "Send that widow a Japanese tea set." " Who are you?" " Who?" "I'll show you who." "That's who." "Patty Samuels made a deathbed statement." "You put up $10,000 to go bang on Boyle and me." " You're insane!" " Yeah?" "What's the matter?" "No confession?" "Even under duress?" "He's taking a shower." "The damn phones haven't stopped ringing." "Upstairs, the city council." "The man has clout." "What did you expect?" "His lawyer was gonna let it die?" "I never touched him." "Sure, we talked, but he slipped on the wet floor and fell." "He says otherwise." "So do his men." "They're his men." "You're off the investigation, Lieutenant, pending review." "What's all this?" "Everybody knows that Santiago is the biggest dealer in the city... in spite of his cover." "Intelligence knows it, and so do the feds." "His "H" comes in from Canada by mule..." "Just file your report, Lieutenant." "The commission will be pleased to consider whatever you have to say." "A date will be set for the review board, and you will be notified." "That's it." "Until further notice, you're on a desk." "I tried to warn you." "No, wait." " Wait a minute, Lon, don't do that." " Too much politics." "Come on." "Don't do that." "Go away and think about it." "You put in too many years here, Lon." "You got a damn good record of arrests and convictions." "Frank, let him go." "He was never part of the team anyway." "Yeah, run it smooth." "Don't do anything." "Don't rock the boat." " You mean to infer that..." " I can infer anything I want now, Chief." "I'm a civilian again." "What happened?" "Run this through the lab for me, will you?" "See if you can get me a make." " Lon?" " I'll call you." " Lois?" " I hope you don't mind my coming down." "I just couldn't sit home." "Glad you did." "Welcome aboard." "My high-heel shoes." "You can't hurt these decks." " You all right?" " Yeah." "No." "Let me fake it." "Thanks for holding my hand at the funeral." "Big turnout, wasn't it?" "Stan had a lot of friends, that kind of a fella." "The city went all out." "Fifty motorcycles, all that media coverage." "God, why does anybody want to be a cop?" "How about a drink?" "Yeah." "I'm glad now we never had any kids." "Maybe it would have been better having some." "Who knows?" "It's all right." "Alcohol purifies." "How do you stand it, this living in solitary?" "You get used to it." "Water or soda?" "It doesn't matter." "You should get yourself a woman." "She'd at least straighten up for you." "Not enough for them anymore." "Women's lib, you know." "Growing up, isn't she?" "You still do your Sundays?" "Wouldn't miss them for anything." "Why should you?" "If you've got something good, keep it." "I saw your ex in the papers." "She and Forrester at some lawyers' meeting." "He sure got up there all of a sudden." "I'm glad for her." "Lois, what are your plans?" "I don't know." "I'm all mixed-up." "Lon, can I be your sister?" "Sure." "I'd like that." "All I had were three brothers." "We were always banging knuckles." "Then let's do something crazy, brother." "Let's get in your car and go someplace." "Canada." "Let's get lost for about 10 years." "Yes." "Ten years is just about right." "It's all right, isn't it?" "Get it out." "It's all right." "It's over." "I am tough, see?" "What about you?" "I heard you quit." "Congratulations." "Nothing lost." "Creeps have made all the gains." "Cops get to listen to lots of organ music." "Go get yourself a good job." "Yeah." "I parked in your spot." "It doesn't matter." "The car's in the shop anyway." " New bills." " Yeah." "Sorry about Boyle." "Yeah." "Want a beer?" "No, thanks." "Pinky, I want to come in with you." "Lon, there's hardly enough for me." "Some bad checks, door shaking." "Even divorce has gone sour." "Dissolution is putting us out of business." "No salary." "I need the cover of your license, Pinky." "Looking for a base?" "That's right." "I'll bring my own client." " Who?" " Me." "I get it." "Stan's killing." "Do-it-yourself gumshoeing." "Why quit?" "Why don't you just take a leave?" "Freer this way." "There's a lot of badasses on the street carrying your bruises." "They'd love to catch you without the protection of the departmental umbrella." "Well, that's part of the bundle, Pinky." "How about it?" "Well, if that's what you want, we'll get you registered." "Gee, will Kosterman get hot." "Okay, sign right there, will you, Lon?" "His name's Freddie LaSalle." "He's a contract man from St. Louis." "How did he get by the airport watch?" "Who knows?" "Drove in." "Any surveillance on him?" "Would be if we could find him." "How about intelligence?" "Why is he here?" "Nothing." "Well, I'm located now." "Pinky's." "You got his number?" "I can get it." "I'm depending on you to keep me up on things." "Well, I'll do what I can, Lon, but my neck only goes out so far." "That's the only way to go." "Rosey?" "It's me." "Did you get any more..." "None of your snitches will help you now." "They know you can't deal anymore." "The hell I can't." " Don't park it." "I'm not staying." " Yes, sir." " Lon, this is a surprise." " Yeah." "Nice party." "We're trying to raise some money for a foster-parent program." "It's awful about Stan." "I tried to reach Lois." "I'll keep trying." " I heard you resigned." " That's right." "I'm glad." "I'm sorry, too... that it didn't happen a long time ago." "Is Ginger around?" "Back from school?" "She should be here any minute." "Elaine, I need $5,000." "I hope it's for a woman." "Someone patient, brave, and caring... who doesn't break out in rashes being left alone at night." "I'll have to ask Walter." "Hello, Lon." " You're looking fit." " You, too." "How about Elaine?" " Looks marvelous, doesn't she?" " Always did." " Walter, Lon wants $5,000." " A loan." "I have $6,000 or $7,000 coming from my pension... but I won't get it for three months, and I need the money right now." " All right." " I've drawn up this paper." "The fund will pay you directly." "That's not necessary, Lon." "Just pay me back when you can." "I'd rather do it this way." "All right." "I'll get a check." "Goodbye." "Daddy!" "Hi!" "Hello, Ginger." " Hi, Mom." " Hi, sweetheart." "Look at this, 99 out of a 100." "I'm a genius." "I've got a couple of tickets to the Sunday basketball game." "How about it?" "Dad, Jane invited me to her house at the marina." "She's having a boy-girl party, my first one." "Then you'll have to go to Janie's." " Maybe next week." " Lf there's not another party." "I'm getting very popular." "I think it's my charm." "I called the bank... and told them you'd be down to cash it." "There will be no difficulty." "Thanks, Walter." "I'll see you." "What's the score?" "The Lakers are doing it to them righteously." "There's my man." "I'm gonna transact some business." "Why don't you get something to eat?" "Get Daddy something, too, here, and you be really sweet to yourself." "What you got for me, my man?" "That's all right." "Walsh is playing?" "I'll tell you what, I'm going to run three on this one, and two..." "Watch it." "Baby, give me the hot dogs." "Stay right here." "Daddy's got some more business to take care of." " Hello, Rosey." " I don't have to talk to you." "You're not the heat anymore, you know what I mean?" " Like, you're useless." " Hold it, Rosey." "What are you going to do?" "Go fist city on me?" "I can dig that, you know, a week in the hospital." "Rest and relaxation for me, you know what I mean?" "There's five bills in this newspaper." "I don't even sneeze for less than 10." "All right." "Let's turn to the second section." "There's five more if it's beautiful." "Santiago has got company from out of state." "Freddie LaSalle?" "That's worth zip." " Enjoy the game." " There's more." "More hardware." "A cat by the name of German Kaufman from Denver." "Two hit men." "Three." "A Lou Something-Or-Other from Miami." "Santiago is collecting a murder squad." " Something else." " What?" "You'd be surprised how the cost of living..." " Has gone up in the black community." " It stops right here." "A heist team." "A heist team?" "Rosey, you're shining me on." "No, this is the straight skinny." "It must be something special." "Drugs?" "You know Santiago." "Now, what's his bag?" "Did Stan find something out?" "He's got his own connections." "You ask them." "I'm missing all the action, babe." "Rosey, if this is a shine..." "I'm coming back and ironing your face." "Personally, I think it's worth more." "I'll get you some Blue Chip Stamps." "Cocaine, Sal?" "Let's have them, Sal." "The balloons." "Spit them out." " Spit them out!" " What the hell is this?" "You ain't even a cop anymore!" " Go see some basketball." " Basketball?" "You've got a nerve, picking your way in here." "What is this?" "I've got a good mind to call a cop." " So what?" " I thought you might be interested." "Why should I be?" "I'm no doper." "Where did you get that idea?" "Look, I'm tired." "I've been hustling drinks for 10 hours." "My feet hurt, my back hurts, and I need a bath." "So go on." "Let's cut through it, Myra." "You were a good friend of Stan's in the past." "He was a nice guy." "He was a gentleman." "It was a damn shame." "Not that there was ever anything between us." "Personal, I mean." "We were just good friends." "Sure, I know that." "He respected you." " You bet he did." " He brought the balloons... and you spoke of things in general." "If I hear anything... it's my civic duty to tell the right person." "Who else knows?" " Why don't you guys print up a program?" " Nobody knows, Myra." "I was just Stan's very good friend." "I talked only to Stan... not his very good friend... and I'm not talking to you." "I don't like you." "I never did." "You're a bear." "I don't like bears." "Out." "Okay." "Wait." "Skag or coke?" "I don't go skag." "I know what you go, Myra." "Can I see one?" "You have a bill handy?" ""C" note." "Class." "Roll it for me, will you, like a good fella?" "Do you mind?" "It hurts my eyes." "You see, the lounge is dark all of the time, so my pupils get dilated." "Dilated pupils is a natural condition with me." "That's why some people think I'm a coker." "Myra, did Stan have some information?" "Was that why he was killed?" "Why don't you take off your coat?" "Aren't you hot?" " Personally, I think it's hot." " Know anything about a drug heist?" " Think I'm fat?" " No, I think you look real nice." "Yeah?" "I'm fat." "Baby fat." "It needs lifting." "Even that won't help." "What I need is a complete overhaul." "Myra, I'm asking you something." "Sure, honey..." "I'll tell you." "Be glad to... in the morning." "You said I looked real nice." "You said it." "Myra, in your job... you must meet a lot of younger men around." "Sure." "Phone rings day and night, don't you know... but I'm ignoring it." "I'm picking you, honey." " How about some coffee?" " Hi." "I'll fix some bacon and eggs." "Okay?" "You cool it..." "Thanks, Myra, but I got a big day." "Sure." "I'm busy myself." "I don't know what Stan knew." "I didn't tell him." "I didn't know myself until yesterday." " Some hard rocks from out of town." " What's the setup?" "Drug heist, like you thought." "They're going for the biggest stash in the city." " Where?" " You're the detective." "Detect." "Give me some help." "Look where the men in blue hang out." " I can't believe it." " So go find out." "Only thing is, you better hurry." " Hello, Joe." " Hi, Lon, how are you doing?" "All right." " 2549, cocaine." " Check." " 2268, heroin." " Check." "Hi, Steve." "Hi, Lon." "What brings you around?" "Just picking some stuff up out of my locker." " How's it going?" " Not bad." "The wife's having a little problem, though." "You know women." " She's going to the hospital tomorrow." " That's too bad." " That concludes it." "Sign here, please." " Okay." "Would you believe you're looking at over $2 million?" "I sure would." "Where are they burning it this time, Sarge?" " Beats me." "State secret." " See you." "Sorry." "What are you doing down there?" "I'm looking for a restroom." "It's not down here." "It's upstairs and to the left." "Thanks." " Howdy, Sarge." " Good morning." "Drop the boxes!" "Drop them!" "Dr. Chaplin to the emergency room, first floor." "Take off!" "Are you crazy?" "Get out of that truck!" "Open those rear doors." " Who are you working for?" " I work for the laundry company." "Why did you blast through those stop signs?" "The way you was chasing me, I thought you were some sort of nut." "Maybe I am." "Take off." "Professional all the way." "We found the linen truck." " The switch had already been made." " How much did they get?" "Property is totaling it up now." "Megabucks." "Must be $2 million wholesale, anyway." "Robbing the police." "Man, that's beautiful." "Chief wants to see you at half past." " Capt. Windott's on his way." " I'll bet he is." "Sgt. Kennedy." "Yeah." "Let me have it." "Now, what the hell was that?" "Just what the hell was that?" " You hot-dogging it around like that!" " I wasn't sure on my information..." "You didn't have to be sure." "Your responsibility is to let us know." "My responsibility is to my client." "Nothing in the law says I have to tell you anything." "Okay." "Then you better tell your client... to find himself a new private." "Pending a look into that shootout, there will be a delay... in approval of Pinky's request to take you on." "We're all set, Captain." "I'll search Santiago's place." "I'll cover his house, but even if he's got it, he's not gonna have his stash there." "Ed, you've gotta help me with something here." "Let's say for a minute McQ is right... and Santiago needed the dope to supply his people... so he brought in this robbery team, right?" "Now you tell me, how did he know when state was gonna move it... or how did he know where it was gonna be burned?" "Now, I understand that's private information." "That's right." "State sets the time and place." " So somebody leaked it, right?" " Yes, somebody." "Ed, what about a connection... between the robbery and the murders of Boyle and the officers?" "There's a connection, all right." "One of the officers shot was in Property..." "Wally Johnson." "Frank, if there's a tie-in, we'll find it." "You're forgetting something." "You're out." "And I wanna tell you something." "I'm glad." "Just a minute, you still carrying?" "Better leave it." "For the time being, your permit is revoked." "And if you give me any more of your crap... you will find employment of any kind is just a little out of your reach." "If you want me to hit you harder, I can do that, too." "Sir, Capt. Windott's here." "Hi, Phil." "Get out." " Ed, don't you think McQ here..." " Frank!" " Phil." "How are you?" " Fine." "We've got a problem." "Franklin Toms, field deputy, city council." " Capt. Windott." " Frank." "Nice to meet you." "Let me know how the sweep comes out." " I'll be going by Lois' house tonight." " Okay, Lon." " Hey, Lon." " Jack." " What are you doing?" " Buying a gun." "This one." "Got a minute?" "I got something I wanna show you in back." "Lon, I have a little equalizer here." "We're gonna try to sell it to the department." " The Ingram." " Ingram?" " Nine millimeter." " Six, seven pounds?" "6.25." "The silencer makes a nice handle." "Lon, this can here is filled with water." "Go on." "Squeeze off a burst." "Why not?" "How about that?" "Those 32 slugs came out in a second and a half." "Yeah." "Did you ever see anything like it?" "You're not going to take it, are you?" "Just say it's a loan." "Lon, it's not licensed!" "Jack, neither am I." "I am going down to see my folks." "Why don't we get into that Green Hornet of yours and go down together?" " I'd like to, but..." " I see." "Lon, why don't you catch on?" "Police work can't be done these days." "Crime isn't just organized, it's institutionalized." "Thanks." " And you're blowing it, you know." " What?" "Your allotment, brother." "You're off the force." "You won't get licensed." "You know, kid, you're empty." "Why don't you do something filling?" "I wanna know who did it and why." "You'd think I would, too, wouldn't you?" "Hello." "Yes, he's still here." " Hello." " Lon, J.C. The search is over." " What happened?" " What we figured." "Zip." "Okay, J.C. Thanks." "Go on home." " Nothing." " Santiago doesn't have it." "He has it, all right." "He's probably driving it around town." "That's the standard procedure." "Now, what do you think would be a safe place to stash it?" " Where the police have already been." " I think you're right." "Do you have to leave?" " No big hurry." " Refill?" "Why not?" "Lon, can I tell you something?" "Stan and I were having trouble for a long time." "We were in the same bed, but it was just sleeping." "Did he say anything?" " Did he tell you I was leaving him?" " No." "I thought you two knew everything about each other." "Everything and nothing." "I really don't want you as a brother." "I guess I never did." "That's the danger of the buddy system." "Maybe the manual needs rewriting." " Maybe it does." " Why not?" "A couple of empties." "Like in the songs... let's help each other through the night." " Hi." " Frank, come in." " Frank?" " Hey, Lon." "I didn't know you were here." "I'm glad you are." "I need to talk with both of you, as a matter of fact." "Sit down." "Would you like a drink?" "No." "Yeah, I will." "Give me a Scotch and water, if you don't mind." "The commission asked me to stop by, Lois... to see if you needed anything, if you wanted anything." " I'm fine, thanks." " Okay." "And about that job, I know I can get you clerical work in accounting... but if you can hold on just a little bit longer..." "I heard a better job was gonna open in Public Affairs." " Sounds good to me." " Good." "I'm sorry about the hassle they've been giving you downtown, Lon." "And I agree with you, Ed's on the wrong track." "I mean, he's got this bug about the militant angle, see." "There's gotta be more to it than that." "I'm gonna talk with him." "I'm gonna change his mind." "That would be a start." "But if I were you, I'd cool it for a little while, anyway... because it just seems to me you're damned exposed." "Yeah." "Have you eaten?" "And you?" "Let's all have dinner someplace." "I'd like that... but I guess it'll have to wait till another time." "Good night, Lois." "See you tomorrow." "Just ease the gun out." "Make yourself comfortable." "I guess I was expected." "Breaking and entering." "Very serious." "Robbery and possession of narcotics." "You're in more trouble than I." "We shall see." "Look." "I don't like what you did to me." "I suppose I can understand it... the rage of a man who's lost a good friend." "But I don't like what you did to me." "I kind of enjoyed it myself." "You interrupted my coffee." "Have some." "No, thanks." "Come on, now." "Relax." "One spoonful or two?" "Two." "It has been my observation that policemen like their coffee sweet." "Sugar!" "All of it." "Sugar!" "Where's the stolen sugar?" "Do you understand what's happened?" "A switch has taken place... and where?" "Where else but the police department itself?" "Actually, I find it quite charming." "I arrange a robbery... a very difficult robbery." "Stealing from the police itself." "But before I can steal from them... they steal from me." "My heart bleeds for you." "If you're bleeding, it's for yourself." "Your people are the violators." "Proof again of how unfair things are." "The advantage always lies with the people on the inside." "Who?" "You ask me?" "How do I know?" "I'm on the outside." "But big people, it would seem." "A big operation... who else but big people?" "How about Stan Boyle?" "Did you blast him?" "I had no reason." "Possibly he discovered... what was taking place." "Perhaps it's been going on for a long time." "Maybe everything that was ever burned was sugar." "Now, I find that concept fascinating." "Certain officials... are my competitors." "See what the world has become?" "Well, I can't help you." "Then go." "I have nothing to fear from you." "All this will be destroyed... and no one will know of my embarrassment... except those very clever officials." "Of course." "One more thing." "I don't see anything." "What'd he hit you with?" "Powdered sugar." "The hell with that, Pinky." "Let's get on with it." "Let's see what we can put together." " There are two separate frolics here." " That's right." "Santiago arranged the heist, and he came up a loser." "Insiders pulled this job." "Wally Johnson stood the morning watch alone." "It'd be easy for him to slip out the dope and slip in the sugar." "His murder, Hyatt's, and Stan's all connect." "And no militants mixed up in it, right?" "Yeah." "And that makes you wonder, doesn't it... why Kosterman was so eager to stick them." "Yeah, doesn't it?" "That's why I need you." "So you check IRS, his bank accounts... any girlfriend he might have on the side." "You know the routine." "Kosterman." "That's heavy." " What are you gonna do?" " I've got my own angle." "He probably collected and stashed that dope by now." "If it's not on the street already." " Sgt. Davis." " J.C.?" "This is Lon." "Can you talk?" " Go." "Has a new supply of junk hit the streets?" "Not a thing, Lon." "Let me know if it does." "Sure." "What is it?" "What are you into?" "Don't ask." "Just answer." "It's best that way." "McQ." "Coffee." "Go outside and bring the car around front, baby." "We're not gonna be here much longer." "The air in here got foul." "Just go get the car, baby, and be cool." "What the hell is wrong with you, McQ, coming here?" "Don't get excited, Rosey." "I hear you're holding out on me." "What are you trying to do, man, run me out of business?" "Your stuff's coming down from headquarters, some top brass." "What the hell are you talking about, McQ?" "I get from Santiago." "You know that." "I don't know anything about any cops, either." "I think you do, and I wanna hear it." " Okay, but not here." " Here." "Now." "You know what will happen to me if I'm seen with you on my tail?" "Man, I'll be out of business in a week." "Look, McQ, on the force or off, you are bad news... and if anybody was dirty, you ought to know who." "What do you mean by that?" "Boyle, your buddy." "That's who." "Now, there's a cat that smelled bad all the way." "Back that up, Rosey." "Give me something solid to support it." "Street talk." "The same way I get everything else for you, street talk." "You ever bad-talk Boyle again..." "I'll kill you." "Myra?" "Hi." "I don't know if it's healthy being seen with you." "I hear you're making a lot of people mad." "Sit down a minute." "You heard about the drug heist... the hit on the state narco officers." "Yes, it's been all over the TV." "And there's a rumor... that somebody down at headquarters isn't clean." "I don't know anything about that." "You wouldn't be holding out on me, Myra?" " I'm a tired man." " No." "I'm not dealing, Lon..." " But when you are rested..." " You know something?" "You are attractive." "Sure." "That's all that a girl like me needs, is a liar like you." "You sure you won't come in?" "Thanks." "If you should change your mind, you know where I'll be." "No." "That's all right." "Thank you." "Good night." "Just a minute, Lon, honey." "I'm coming." "No." "Hello." "Lon, where the hell have you been?" "I've been trying to reach you." " What did Myra tell you?" " Nothing." "She didn't know a thing." "Somebody thought she did." "She's been killed." "Damn." "What the hell?" "What the hell?" " Holy Jesus!" " Look at that." "Get some foam on this thing." " Where are you?" " In the back." "How bad are you hurt?" "How the hell do I know?" "Get some foam on this thing." "I'm up to my butt in gas." "There's no fracture." "I don't see any other apparent injuries." "It may not be apparent, but you ought to feel it from my side." "You've been banged up pretty good." "Watch this hammer." "Keep your head still." "I think we'll keep you here overnight for observation." "Nurse, where is that head injury?" "As they say, you're a lucky man." " What's with the car?" " Totaled." "You're gonna need new wheels, that's for sure." "It's time I got rid of it." "If it isn't being wrecked, it's being stolen." " What is it?" " Nothing." "Stay right here, Lieutenant, I'll be with you in a minute." "Thank you, Nurse." "What do you think, Lon?" "Santiago?" "No." "He could have taken me anytime he wanted." "The whole thing's weird." "Why press you in iron?" "It's not so weird if they wanted to separate me from that car." " Where is it?" " Impound on Olive." " Why?" " Just a thought." "Okay, I'll split." "If you need anything, I'll be at home." " Say hello to Ellen." " Right." " What's this for?" " You." "No way." "Damn it, Lieutenant." "We're busy around here." "I say you get in this chair." " Hospital regulations." " And I say it's damn ridiculous." "All right, Lieutenant, but we're taking it up with us anyway." "I don't make the regulations." "You could be seriously injured and not even know it." " Maybe you're right." " I've had other cases like you, though." "Just last week I had three." "Two of them were okay, but one of them was..." "Well, for Christ's sake." "Olive and 23rd." "Car 10 to radio." "Notify Capt. Kosterman the subject just left the hospital." "All right, Lon, come on out." "We know you're in there." "Farrow." "Come over here." "What's going on?" "What are you doing here?" "I came to meet a friend." "What is going on?" "Captain got an anonymous tip." "Lon's had the stolen dope in his car." "He's in there after it now." " Lon?" " Why not?" "Anyone can go bad." "Goodbye, Pinky, you're in the way." "Take him over there till I can get to him." "Come on, Lon, we know you're armed." "Now, come out with your hands empty." "Lon, we got a lot of firepower out here." "Don't make me use any heat." "All right, Lon, you coming out?" "Let's have the dog." "All right, bring him out." "Son of a bitch!" "Lon, what happened?" "The police were here looking for you 10 minutes ago." " Where are you going?" " Down to see my folks." "All right." "Get the car out." "Lon, what happened?" "Come on, Lois." "All right, Lon." "What happened?" "Lon, for God's sake." "Stan was dirty." "I don't believe it." "I didn't want to, either." "He was in a frolic, all right... to steal dope from the Property section... and sell it off." "The dope had been switched for sugar long before the heist." "It was stashed in my car." "I was hauling it around." " What did Stan have to do with that?" " Everything." "I loaned him my car." "He said his was in the shop." "That's the way they got the dope in there." "You really mean it, don't you?" "All the way." "I feel kind of silly... acting like an avenging angel all that time." "I guess he thought a big crop would bring me back to him." "I'm glad he's dead." "I'll tell you this, I'm on his side." "Why not?" "It's the new national sport called grabbing." "Everybody does it." "The senator sells privilege, the judge takes bribes." "This time it just happened to be Stan." "And some others." "Who?" "Somebody tall." "Somebody in." "Somebody who killed Wally Johnson and Stan... so they could have more for themselves." "Kosterman?" " I'll find out." " How?" "Through you." "I feel kind of silly about that, too." "Lon, you're crazy." "That would be nice." "I'd like it better that way." "No, it started playing back to me, Lois... when you kept saying:" ""Let's get in your Green Hornet and go someplace."" "My car." "And not only once... at least twice." "You were in it together, but Stan got double-dealt." "You not only took him off your belly... you took him out of this world." "You and your new partner." "You are crazy." "We'll see, Lois." "I'm gonna stick with you until... we find out who comes for this junk." "That's right." "Your friend took it out of my car, gave it to you... to move it out of the city." "Now, let's see." "Is it in here?" "Maybe it's in this one." "Then, it has to be in this one." "Lon, for God's sake, there are $2 million there." "Lon, you like me." "I like you." "I can go anyplace." "We can go together." "That turnoff up there... take it." "McQ!" "He's behind the car!" "Franklin Toms." "Servant of the people." "Santiago." "Can you hear me?" "I want that junk." "McQ, are you listening?" "I said, I want that junk!" "What's your answer?" "McQ, I'll purchase it from you." "25 cents on the dollar." "50 cents." "Now, that's fair." "Come, now." "Let's stop the nonsense... shake hands on an agreement." "If you want it so damn bad, come and get the stuff." "Get it." "Go on." "Too bad." "Okay, Lon, I had it wrong... but I didn't turn in your badge." "I could tell you what you can do with it." "You..." "Lon, it was my job." "I was transferred to Internal Security." "I've been on you all the way." "Yeah, it's your job." "Lousy damn junk." "All right, Lon, how about it?" "There's a bar over there." "Let's get a drink." "English" |
So the inventor of transporters was badly injured by one; his son was "killed" testing one; and he says that several other people were killed testing them. Call me a coward, but I'd want to know that they had sent a few monkeys through the transporter at least ten thousand times each before I went anywhere near it. Don't they do animal testing in the future?
Emory says his sub-quantum transporter is a completely flawed concept. So how come it worked on the probe? And if we say that he just did a normal transport on the probe, why would it end up 40,000 kilometres away? Previous episodes have indicated that the Enterprise transporter range is a few thousand kilometres, tops, so this was extended by at least tenfold! And even if we assume that Emory came up with some upgrade to the normal transporter to allow this, what was all that about "maybe you can extend your range a few hundred kilometres" at the end - he'd already beaten that by a long way!
New fact about Archer - he was one of those child prodigies! In this episode he talks about a heart-to-heart chat he had with his father the day before he went to flight school. In "Cold Station 12", we are told that Archer's father died when he was only twelve years old. So Archer must have gone to flight school when he wasn't even a teenager!
Great Moment :
I have to go with Bill Cobbs. He does a good job as Emory, especially when talking about the loss of his son.
Body Count :
Two - Emory's son Quinn and Ensign burrows.
Factoid :
Emory Erickson was the first Human being to be transported; the transport cycle took a minute and a half to complete. Transporters do indeed pull a person apart into their constituent particles and then squirt them through space, just like McCoy always said they did.
Since Emory invented the transporter, we can have a reasonable window on when this happened. We can be fairly sure that the transporter wasn't cleared for biomatter (people) until shortly before Enterprise began in 2151 thanks to "Broken Bow". Emory was already working on the sub-Quantum transporter fifteen years before this episode, in 2139. So he would more than likely have built the original transporter somewhere in the region of 2120 - 2135.
Plotline
Emory Erickson, inventor of the transporter, comes aboard the NX-01 to test a new invention - the sub-quantum transporter, a device which could beam people between star systems. The ship travels to a barren region of space to test the device, but when a crewman is killed by a mysterious anomaly Archer begins to suspect that Erickson may be working to another agenda entirely.
Analysis
I didn't like this one much. The idea of bringing the inventor of the transporter onto the ship is a reasonable one, but the story used to frame it is a bit nonsensical and, frankly, silly. The idea that this guy has been floating around in space in a dematerialised state for fifteen years... I couldn't get past that and the episode suffered because of it.
There are shades of Voyager's "Jetrel" here; in both episodes a scientist who comes aboard saying he wants to do one thing when actually he is lying to cover his true mission. In both the real mission involves using the transporter to recover a person apparently killed by the scientist's actions in the distant past. In both the recovery attempt proceeds once the plot is uncovered, and in both that attempt then fails.
Unfortunately, while Jetrel makes an outstanding episode out of this premise, Daedalus just feels flat and lifeless somehow. It doesn't really grab you or involve you in any way. |
Bahrain denies police advisor has quit
John Yates was appointed to reform the Kingdom’s police force in wake of Arab Spring
John Yates, former Metropolitan Police Service officer.
By Sara Anabtawi
Sun 26 Aug 2012 12:15 PM
Authorities in Bahrain have denied recent reports claiming that senior police advisor John Yates has quit his post.
Yates, former Assistant Commissioner of the UK's Metropolitan Police, was drafted in last December to oversee reforms to Bahrain's police service, which was faced with accusations of heavy-handedness in quelling civil demonstrations in the Gulf state.
“Yates’ initial six-month contract concluded on July 20 this year. However, he
remains as an important adviser to the Minister of Interior, overseeing the
police code of conduct and the implementation of reforms. Yates is scheduled to
regularly visit the country in the coming months,” a statement by the
Information Affairs Authority said.
Bahrain's security apparatus has faced staunch criticism over how it has dealt with protesters seeking to remove the Sunni Muslim-ruled kingdom's government.
In April, an Amnesty International report claimed the Bahraini government’s response to the findings of an international commission of inquiry had proved inadequate as human rights violations continued.
The 58-page report said that piecemeal reforms had failed to provide justice for the victims of human rights violations despite the government’s insistence that it will learn from the events of February and March 2011.
Following the November report of the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry (BICI), Amnesty said it has found that despite some institutional and other reforms, the government's overall response has been "inadequate".
Amnesty is calling on the Bahraini government to "immediately and unconditionally release all prisoners of conscience and to ensure that those suspected of torturing and killing, including those with command responsibility, are held accountable". |
Q:
Sort an array from right to left without using default functions
I was reading about arrays and I'm wondering how can I sort the elements from an array from right to left.
For example:
n = 10
numbers = []
for i in range(1, n+1):
numbers.append(i)
print(numbers)
How can I show the components from the last one to the very first one (10, 9, 8...) using basics tools like cycles and conditions?.
And besides this alternative:
for i in range(-1, (-len(numbers) - 1), -1):
print(numbers[i])
A:
You aren't sorting an array. You are attempting to construct one with a particular ordering. You can do this using range directly. range can be invoked with three arguments start, stop and step. This allows you to construct a range 10, 9, ...:
Python 2:
numbers = range(10, 0, -1)
print numbers
Python 3:
numbers = list(range(10, 0, -1))
print(numbers)
output
[10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1]
|
Open Access Articles- Top Results for Choice modelling
Choice modelling
Choice modeling attempts to model the decision process of an individual or segment in a particular context. Choice modeling may be used to estimate non-market environmental benefits and costs.[1]
Many alternative models exist in econometrics, marketing, sociometrics and other fields, including utility maximization, optimization applied to consumer theory, and a plethora of other identification strategies which may be more or less accurate depending on the data, sample, hypothesis and the particular decision being modelled. In addition, choice modeling is regarded as the most suitable method for estimating consumers’ willingness to pay for quality improvements in multiple dimensions.[2] The Nobel Prize for economics was awarded to a principal proponent of the choice modeling theory, Daniel McFadden.[3]
Theoretical background
Choice modeling was developed in parallel by economists and cognitive psychologists. The origins of choice modeling can be traced to Thurstone's research into food preferences in the 1920s and to random utility theory.
Choice modeling posits that with human choice there is an underlying rational decision process and that this process has a functional form. Depending on the behavioural context, a specific functional form may be selected as a candidate to model that behaviour. The multinomial logit or MNL model form is commonly used as it is a good approximation to the economic principle of utility maximisation. That is, human beings strive to maximise their total utility. The multinomial logit form describes total utility as a linear addition (or subtraction) of the component utilities in a context. Once the functional form of the decision process has been established, the parameters of a specific model may be estimated from available data using multiple regression, in the case of MNL. Other functional forms may be used or combined, such as binary logit, probit or EBA with appropriate statistical tests to determine the goodness of fit of the model to a hold out data set.
Methods used in choice modeling
Choice modeling comprises a number of specific techniques that contribute to its power. Some or all of these may be used in the construction of a choice model.
Orthogonality
For model convergence, and therefore parameter estimation, it is often necessary that the data have little or no collinearity. The reasons for this have more to do with information theory than anything else. To understand why this is, take the following example:
Imagine a car dealership that sells both luxury cars and used low-end vehicles. Using the utility maximisation principle and an MNL model form, we hypothesise that the decision to buy a car from this dealership is the sum of the individual contribution of each of the following to the total utility.
Price
Marque (BMW, Chrysler, Mitsubishi)
Origin (German, American)
Performance
Using multinomial regression on the sales data however will not tell us what we want to know. The reason is that much of the data is collinear since cars at this dealership are either:
high performance, expensive German cars
low performance, cheap American cars
There is not enough information, nor will there ever be enough, to tell us whether people are buying cars because they are European, because they are a BMW or because they are high performance. The reason is that these three attributes always co-occur and in this case are perfectly correlated . That is: all BMW's are made in Germany and are of high performance. These three attributes: origin, marque and performance are said to be collinear or non-orthogonal.
These types of data, the sales figures, are known as revealed preference data, or RP data, because the data 'reveals' the underlying preference for cars. We can infer someone's preference through their actions, i.e. the car they actually bought. All data mining uses RP data. RP data is vulnerable to collinearity since the data is effectively from the wild world of reality. The presence of collinearity implies that there is missing information, as one or more of the collinear factors is redundant and adds no new information. This weakness of data mining is that the critical missing data that may explain choices, is simply never observed.
We can ensure that attributes of interest are orthogonal by filtering the RP data to remove correlations. This may not always be possible, however using stated preference methods, orthogonality can be ensured through appropriate construction of an experimental design. Decision making can be affected by whether choices are presented together or separately through the distinction bias.
Experimental design
In order to maximize the information collected in Stated Preference Experiments, an experimental design (below) is employed. An experimental design in a Choice Experiment is a strict scheme for controlling and presenting hypothetical scenarios, or choice sets to respondents. For the same experiment, different designs could be used, each with different properties. The best design depends on the objectives of the exercise.
It is the experimental design that drives the experiment and the ultimate capabilities of the model. Many very efficient designs exist in the public domain that allow near optimal experiments to be performed.
For example the Latin square 1617 design allows the estimation of all main effects of a product that could have up to 1617 (approximately 295 followed by eighteen zeros) configurations. Furthermore this could be achieved within a sample frame of only around 256 respondents.
Below is an example of a much smaller design. This is 34 main effects design.
0
0
0
0
0
1
1
2
0
2
2
1
1
0
1
1
1
1
2
0
1
2
0
2
2
0
2
2
2
1
0
1
2
2
1
0
This design would allow the estimation of main effects utilities from 81 (34) possible product configurations. A sample of around 20 respondents could model the main effects of all 81 possible product configurations with statistically significant results.
Stated preference
A major advance in choice modeling has been the use of Stated Preference data. With RP data we are at the whim of the interrelated nature of the real world. With SP data, since we are directly asking humans about their preferences for products and services, we are also at liberty to construct the very products as we wish them to evaluate.
This allows great freedom in the creative construction of many improbable but plausible hypothetical products. It also allows complete militation against collinearity through experimental design.
If instead of using the RP sales data as in the previous example, we were to show respondents various cars and ask
"Would you buy this car?"", we could model the same data. However, instead of simply using the cars we actually sold, we allowed ourselves the freedom to create hypothetical cars, we could escape the problems of collinearity and discover the true utilities for the attributes of marque, origin and performance. This is known as a Choice Experiment.
For example one could create the following unlikely, however plausible scenarios.
a low performance BMW that was manufactured in the US. "Would you buy this car?", or;
a high performance Mitsubishi manufactured in Germany. "How about this car?"
Information theory tells us that a data set generated from this exercise would at least allow the discrimination between 'origin' as a factor in choice.
A more formal derivation of an appropriate experimental design would consequently ensure that no attributes were collinear and would therefore guarantee that there was enough information in the collected data for all attribute effects to be identified.
Because individuals do not have to back up their choices with real commitments when they answer the survey, to some extent, they would behave inconsistently when the situation really happens, a common problem with all SP methods.
However, because Choice Models are Scale Invariant this effect is equivalent for all estimates and no individual estimate is biased with respect to another.
SP models may therefore be accurately scaled with the introduction of Scale Parameters from real world observations, yielding fairly accurate predictive models.
Preferences as choice trade-offs
It has long been known that simply asking human beings to rate or choose their preferred item from a scalar list will generally yield no more information than the fact that human beings want all the benefits and none of the costs. The above exercise if executed as a quantitative survey would tell us that people would prefer high performance cars at no cost. Again information theory tells us that there is no context-specific information here.
Instead, a choice experiment requires that individuals be forced to make a trade-off between two or more options, sometimes also allowing 'None or Neither' as a valid response. This presentation of alternatives requires that the at least some respondents compare: the cheaper, lower performance car against the more expensive, higher performance car. This datum provides the key missing information necessary to separate and independently measure the utility of performance and price.
independent segment based allocation; to ensure balanced scenarios across segments of interest
block allocation balancing; to ensure that non-completes do not affect overall sample balance
Model generation
The typical outputs from a choice model are:
a model equation
a set of estimates of the marginal utilities for each of the attributes of interest; in the above example these would be (Marque, Origin, Price and Performance). In the case of an MNL model form, the marginal utilities have a specific quantitative meaning and are directly related to the marginal probability that the attribute causes an effect on the dependent variable which in the above example would be propensity to buy.
variance statistics for each of the utilities estimated.
Choice modeling in practice
Superficially, a Choice Experiment resembles a market research survey; Respondents are recruited to fill out a survey, data is collected and the data is analysed. However two critical steps differentiate a Choice Experiment from a Questionnaire:
An experimental design must be constructed. This is a non-trivial task.
The Choice Experiment itself may be performed via hard copy with pen and paper, however increasingly the on-line medium is being used as it has many advantages over the manual process, including cost, speed, accuracy and ability to perform more complex studies such as those involving multimedia or dynamic feedback.
Despite the power and general applicability of Choice modeling, the practical execution is far more complex than running a general survey. The model itself is a delicate tool and potential sources of bias that are ignored in general market research surveys need to be controlled for in choice models.
Makes the frame of reference explicit to respondents via the inclusion of an array of attributes and product alternatives;
Enables implicit prices to be estimated for attributes;
Enables welfare impacts to be estimated for multiple scenarios;
Can be used to estimate the level of customer demand for alternative 'service product' in non-monetary terms; and
Potentially reduces the incentive for respondents to behave strategically.
Choice modeling versus traditional quantitative market research
Choice Experiments may be used in nearly every case where a hard estimate of current and future human preferences needs to be determined.
Many other market research techniques attempt to use ratings and ranking scales to elicit preference information.
Ratings
Major problems with ratings questions that do not occur with Choice Models are:
no trade-off information. A risk with ratings is that respondents tend not to differentiate between perceived 'good' attributes and rate them all as attractive.
variant personal scales. Different individuals value a '2' on a scale of 1 to 5 differently. Aggregation of the frequencies of each of the scale measures has no theoretical basis.
no relative measure. How does an analyst compare something rated a 1 to something rated a 2? Is one twice as good as the other? Again there is no theoretical way of aggregating the data.
Ranking
Rankings do introduce an element of trade-off in the response as no two items may occupy the same ranking position. Order preference is captured; however, relative importance is not.
Choice Models however do not suffer from these problems and furthermore are able to provide direct numerical predictions about the probability an individual will make a particular choice.
Maximum difference scaling
Maximum Difference Preference Scaling (or MaxDiff as it is commonly known) is a well-regarded alternative to ratings and ranking. It asks people to choose their most and least preferred options from a range of alternatives. By integrating across the choice probabilities, utility scores for each alternative can be estimated on an interval scale.
Uses of choice modeling
Choice modeling is particularly useful for:
Predicting uptake and refining New Product Development
Estimating the implied willingness to pay (WTP) for goods and services
Product or service viability testing
Estimating the effects of product characteristics on consumer choice
Variations of product attributes
Understanding brand value and preference
Demand estimates and optimum pricing
Choice modeling is a standard technique in travel demand modeling. Classical references include Ben Akiva and Lerman (1985)[5] and Cascetta (2009),[6] while more recent methodological developments are described in Train (2003).[7]
Early applications of discrete choice theory to marketing are described in Anderson et al. (1992).[8]
Baltas and Doyle (2001) review the area of choice modeling, discuss implementation issues, and develop a taxonomy of the various model formulations that have been used in the empirical literature.[9]
Recent developments include a Bayesian approach to discrete choice modeling as set out in Rossi, Allenby, and McCulloch (2009).[10] |
Q:
Is it possible to make an EXACT ISO of my system to put on other computers?
I am new to linux, but had a question. I am getting in the business of buying old computers, putting Linux on them, then donating them to students who don't have their own computer at home. I have gone through and installed Xubuntu on my system, installed/uninstalled all the software that I want/need, and now want to know if there is a way that I could make an ISO of my system, and put it onto ANOTHER computer, and still have all of my tweaks, and programs ready to go after the ISO has installed. That way I don't need to go through and spend an hour or two on every computer.
What programs would you recommend for creating an ISO like this?
Thanks,
Tobin
A:
Parts of this answer comes from: How to move Ubuntu installation from one hdd to another?
I can't say an exact answer for the creation of an ISO as you say in your question but if you wish to reduce the amount of time for creating identical copies of an operating system in different computers, the Cloning process can be useful for your case, of which I suggest you the usage of Clonezilla which can be useful for cloning hard disk drives even for those situations on which you need to do it with different size disks as mentioned here: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/how-clone-hard-drives-clonezilla
Moving to a bigger disk
It's easy to ensure that a clone of a SCSI
disk is restored to a SCSI disk, but you'll have a tough time finding
an exact replica size-wise. The good news is you don't have to restore
a disk on another disk of the same size. The even better news is that
you can in fact restore the image to a much larger disk.
When restoring a disk, Clonezilla enables you to resize the filesystem
and create partitions on the new disk proportionally. But even if you
are moving to a bigger disk, you might prefer to keep the partitions
as they are. In that case you can ask Clonezilla to create the
partition table as its listed in the image.
There is documentation about moving to a larger disk but I am not sure that you can do it the opposite (cloning to a smaller disk). That's why I should suggest you to use just the amount of hard disk drive space needed for the install or check which is the smallest hard disk drive of your equipment in order to create the install based on that disk. Let's say: If you have 9 hard disk drives, 2x100GB, 4x80GB 2x40GB and 1x20GB, let's use the smallest one to install and to be the source for cloning so you can clone it in the largest ones. Remember to expand the partitions as needed in order to use the full hard disk drive after cloning.
Clonezilla offers several Live CD's and bootable USB images and there is also documented that you can resize the free space on the disk after the copy, in which case the suggestion to use gparted is also a good idea.
You don't need to worry about drivers and possible failures related to these things. Ubuntu will install whatever drivers as needed for the new computer, except the proprietary drivers of certain video cards (ATI/nVidia) or more specific hardware. Based on that I suggest you to check every cloned system in order to make sure that everything is running fine after the cloning.
By using a cloning procedure you can do as many customization as you wish to the system and be sure that all the cloned hard disk drives will have the same software that you include on the original.
Good luck!
|
Gluten Free Dog Food
Gluten free dog food provides a
safe diet to dogs sensitive to grains. Many dogs develop allergies to
wheat gluten, but in some dogs, the allergies cause numerable health
problems. It's important to remove all gluten from these dogs' diets to
improve their health and ensure a long life.
Below you'll find a sampling of
gluten-free dog food brands. Always read labels to check for wheat and
corn gluten. Look for foods where a high-quality protein is in the first
couple of ingredients and avoid foods containing any wheat, corn or soy
product
Gluten Allergies in Dogs
In 2007, thousands of pets became ill or
died after ingesting tainted wheat gluten. Many pet owners started
paying closer attention to ingredients in the foods their pet ate.
Surprisingly, it came to light that most commercial foods use wheat or
corn gluten in equal or larger ratios to the meat source.
Many experts also started realizing that
gluten may be linked to increases in diabetes in dogs and cats. In
addition, experts believe that high carb diets may be to blame for the
increase in chronic and degenerative illnesses. Studies find that dogs
fed table scraps live longer than dogs fed a diet of high-carb
commercial dog foods.
Studies prove that specific dogs can
develop Celiac's Disease, a serious illness caused by gluten
intolerance. With Celiac's Disease, the body mistakenly identifies the
gluten starches as an invader and attacks them. The result is damage to
the intestines and digestive tract. Irish Setters remain the only breed
diagnosed with true Celiac's Disease. Symptoms include anemia, diarrhea,
vomiting and weight loss from malnutrition.
Additional research finds that pet owners
who switch their dog to a gluten-free dog food find their dogs become
more active, allergies stop arthritis pain decreases and intestinal
complaints, such as irritable bowel syndrome, cease.
California Natural Gluten Free Dog Food
California Natural
dog foods contain brown rice or sweet potatoes along with the protein
source of chicken, herring, lamb or salmon. Rosemary, taurine and a
selection of necessary vitamins and nutrients are key ingredients.
EVO Gluten Free Dog Food
Numerous gluten free
dog foods are available today. Purchase these foods online or in pet
food stores. Some foods swap the gluten for sweet potatoes or brown
rice. These foods are usually well tolerated by dogs with a gluten
intolerance.
EVO gluten free dog
foods include no grains and high levels of quality protein. EVO offers a
number of flavors including: |
May 31, 2013
Miller Named Dean at Arizona
May 30, 2013
U of Kansas Law to Reduce Entering Class Size
This is likely the wave of the future: Kansas will enroll about 120 this fall compared to 140 in the two classes ahead (and 175 in this year's graduating class). Kansas has had good employment outcomes for its students, and this move will likely benefit future graduating classes.
Career paths: from teaching law to acupuncture
UPDATE: A reader writes: "I'm a long-time reader of your blogs, and a first-time correspondent. In light of your link to the story of Clare Dalton's transition into acupuncture, I thought you might like to read about Ken Klee's alternative healing ministry. I don't know of any other law professors interested in the mysterious arts of 'energy healing,' but I am willing to bet that Professor Klee is the only court-appointed bankruptcy examiner with a thriving side practice."
May 27, 2013
Rookie hiring summary courtesy of UCI's Sarah Lawsky...
...here. As a percentage of candidates on the market, here's how the schools fared in terms of tenure-track placement of their alumni (Lawsky's numbers are a bit different, at least in part due to a failure to count tenure-stream jobs in non-US law schools; I list only schools that had at least five candidates on the market):
1. University of Chicago (58%)
2. University of Virginia (57%)
3. Yale University (49%)
4. Duke University (39%)
4. New York University (39%)
6. University of Michigan (31%)
7. Harvard University (30%)
8. University of California, Los Angeles (25%)
9. Cornell University (21%)
9. Northwestern University (21%)
11. University of Texas, Austin (18%)
12. Georgetown University (17%)
13. Stanford University (15%)
13. University of California, Berkeley (15%)
15. Columbia University (11%)
The Stanford and Columbia performances seem anomalously low--maybe due to underreporting, and maybe due to a fluke this year.
Professor Lawsky's numbers, even allowing for the limits of self-reporting, also clearly show the steep drop-off in hiring this year, on the order of almost one-third fewer hires than in recent years.
UPDATE: Professor Lawsky's percentage chart, but just for US tenure-track hires.
May 24, 2013
Nice presentation on the U.S. News ranking methodology...
...from Pitt Dean William Carter, who had the unhappy task of dealing with a big drop in Pitt's overall rank in U.S. News. As with all such movements, it has nothing to do with the real world, and everything to do with artifacts of the ranking method. I commend Dean Carter's approach to the matter as a sensible one. (As you will see if you watch Dean Carter's analysis, there have been some minor and largely cosmetic changes in the U.S. News methodology since I wrote the "Guide for the Perplexed" ten years ago.) |
IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON
LORI TINSLEY, ) No. 79274-1-I
Appellant, ) DIVISION ONE
)
v. ) UNPUBLISHED OPINION
)
SHARON B. MILLER, WILLIAM )
MILLER and JOHN DOE TRUSTEE )
of THE WILLIAM R. MILLER LIVING )
TRUST,
Respondents. )
_________________________________ ) FILED: March 3, 2020
HAZELRIGG, J. — Lori Tinsley appeals a summary judgment order dismissing
her claim for injuries incurred while clearing iron rebar from Sharon Miller’s
property.1 Tinsley asserts that the trial court erred by granting summary judgment
on an issue raised for the first time in Miller’s reply brief and failing to recognize
that Tinsley raised a genuine issue of material fact as to her legal status on Miller’s
property. Finding no error, we affirm.
FACTS
Tinsley and Miller were longtime friends who attended the same church.
Miller lives in a home in Everett on property owned by a trust established by her
1 Sharon Miller, sole trustee of the William R. Miller Living Trust, has a life estate in the
property where Tinsley was injured and was the possessor at the time of the injury.
No. 79274-1-1/2
deceased husband prior to their marriage. In addition to the main house where
Miller resides, the property has two additional one-bedroom homes which were in
very poor condition at the time of the incident that gave rise to this lawsuit.
In 2014, Tinsley told Miller that she had been having a hard time finding a
place to live that she could afford on her disability income. Tinsley testified that
Miller “said that she had two houses on her property and she had a third house
plus a garage and that, if I helped her clean it up, that maybe I could rent there.”
About a month before the incident, Tinsley came to walk around the yard and look
at the houses. The yard was overgrown and strewn with miscellaneous items, and
large amounts of iron rebar were stacked on wood pallets around the property.
Tinsley characterized the condition of the property as “hoarding.” Josh Hutchison,
another individual present on the day of the incident, stated that the property was
a “disaster,” with tall grass, waist-high stacks of rebar, wood pallets, and garbage
inside and out.
Tinsley offered to get a team together to clean up the property so she could
move in. They also discussed gathering up the rebar and selling it so Miller could
raise cash to pay her taxes. Miller acknowledged that they discussed Tinsley
moving in, but asserted that “absolutely nothing that had been finalized.” Tinsley
drafted a written agreement regarding the arrangement, but Miller did not think it
was fair and never signed it.
Tinsley assembled a group of family and friends, all of whom attended the
same church as Miller and Tinsley, to help clean up the property. Tinsley had a
pre-existing back condition, and always strained her back every time she moved
-2—
No. 79274-1 -1/3
it. Miller testified that she told Tinsley not to handle rebar due to her back condition
and Tinsley promised she would not. Tinsley denied that Miller told her not to lift
anything.
However, when the cleanup project began, Tinsley did participate in
removing rebar. On April 8, 2014, Tinsley was picking up rebar and tossing it into
a pickup truck when the wooden pallet on which she was standing gave way,
causing her to fall and strike her face on a nearby pipe. Tinsley had been standing
on the pallet for at least two hours before she fell. She had been moving rebar for
at least a full day prior to the incident.
Tinsley filed suit against Miller, alleging that her injuries resulted from
Miller’s negligent failure to maintain her property in a reasonably safe condition.
Miller moved for summary judgment, arguing that Tinsley’s claims fail as a matter
of law because (1) Miller’s duty of care was determined by Tinsley’s common law
status as a licensee and (2) Miller did not breach this duty because Tinsley had full
knowledge of the dangerous conditions on the property. In response, Tinsley
asserted that only a jury could decide whether she was an invitee rather than a
licensee and that a question of fact existed regarding whether Miller had breached
the duty of care applicable to an invitee. In reply, Miller argued that, even assuming
arguendo that Tinsley was an invitee rather than a licensee, summary judgment
dismissal was still appropriate because the specific hazard that allegedly caused
her injury was a hazard she had personally exposed and that she chose to engage
in the activity with this knowledge.
-3--
No. 79274-1 -114
The trial court granted Miller’s motion for summary judgment without stating
the basis for its decision. Tinsley moved for reconsideration, arguing that the court
was not free to decide whether Tinsley was an invitee because Miller did not raise
that issue in her moving papers. She further argued that genuine issues of material
fact existed as to whether Tinsley was an invitee and that further briefing was
needed as to whether Miller had breached the duty owed to an invitee. The trial
court denied Tinsley’s motion for reconsideration. Tinsley appealed.
ANALYSIS
We review a grant of summary judgment de novo, undertaking the same
inquiry as the trial court. Jones v. Allstate Ins. Co., 146 Wn.2d 291, 300, 45 P.3d
1068 (2002). Summary judgment is appropriate if the pleadings, affidavits,
depositions, and admissions on file demonstrate the absence of any genuine
issues of material fact and the moving party is entitled to judgment as a matter of
law. CR 56(c), Versuslaw, Inc. v. Stoel Rives, LLP, 127 Wn. App. 309, 319, 111
P.3d 866 (2005). The moving party bears the burden of demonstrating there is no
genuine dispute as to any material fact. Green v. Am. Pharm. Co., 136 Wn.2d 87,
100, 960 P.2d 912 (1998). A material fact determines the outcome of the litigation
in whole or in part. Atherton Condo. Apt.-Owners Ass’n Bd. Of Dirs. v. Blume Dev.
Co~ 115 Wn.2d 506, 516, 799 P.2d 250 (1990). Questions of fact may be
determined as a matter of law when reasonable minds could reach but one
conclusion. Millerv. Likins, 109 Wn. App. 140,144,34 P.3d 835 (2001).
A party moving for summary judgment must raise all of the issues on which
it believes it is entitled to summary judgment in its opening memorandum. Molloy
-4—
No. 79274-1 -1/5
v. City of Bellevue, 71 Wn. App. 382, 385, 859 P.2d 613 (1993). It is incumbent
upon the moving party to determine what issues are susceptible to resolution
through summary judgment and clearly state them in its opening papers. White v.
Kent Med. Ctr., Inc., P.S., et al., 61 Wn. App. 163, 169, 810 P.2d 4 (1991). “The
court will ordinarily refuse to consider new issues raised by the moving party in its
rebuttal to the response because the nonmoving party has no opportunity to
respond.” 14A KARL B. TEGLAND, WASH. PRAC. CIVIL PROCEDURE 25.4, at
114 (3d ed. 2018). If a nonmoving party discusses new issues in its responsive
memorandum, and does not seek summary judgment on them, these issues are
not proper subjects for the moving party to rebut in a reply memorandum. MoIIoy,
71 Wn. App. at 385. As such, a trial court cannot grant summary judgment on
those issues. Id.
To establish negligence, a plaintiff must prove four basic elements: (1) the
existence of a duty, (2) breach of that duty, (3) resulting injury, and (4) proximate
cause. Degel v. Majestic Mobile Manor, Inc., 129 Wn.2d 43, 48, 914 P.2d 728
(1996). The plaintiff must establish an issue of material fact as to each element of
negligence to defeat summary judgment. Martini v. Post, 178 Wn. App. 153, 164,
313 P.3d 473 (2013).
“Under common law premises liability, a landowner owes differing duties to
entrants onto land depending on the entrant’s status as a trespasser, a licensee,
or an invitee.” Afoa v. Port of Seattle, 176 Wn.2d 460, 467, 296 P.3d 800 (2013).
The highest of these three levels of duty is owed to an invitee. Fuentes v. Port of
Seattle, 119 Wn. App. 864, 869, 82 P.3d 1175 (2003). A business invitee is “‘a
-5—
No. 79274-1-1/6
person who is invited to enter or remain on land for a purpose directly or indirectly
connected with business dealings with the possessor of the land.’” Beebe v.
Moses, 113 Wn. App. 464, 467, 54 P.3d 188 (2002) (quoting RESTATEMENT
(SECOND) OF TORTS § 332 (1965)). In contrast, a licensee is “a person who is
privileged to enter or remain on land only by virtue of the possessor’s consent.”
Younce v. Ferguson, 106 Wn.2d 658, 667, 724 P.2d 991 (1986) (quoting
Restatement (Second) of Torts § 330).
“Generally, a landowner owes trespassers and licensees only the duty to
refrain from willfully or wantonly injuring them, whereas to invitees the landowner
owes an affirmative duty to use ordinary care to keep the premises in a reasonably
safe condition.” Degel, 129 Wn.2d at 49. “Reasonable care requires the landowner
to inspect for dangerous conditions, ‘followed by such repair, safeguards, or
warning as may be reasonably necessary for [a tenant’s] protection under the
circumstances.” Tincani v. Inland Empire Zoological Soc’y, 124 Wn.2d 121, 139,
875 P.2d 621 (1994) (quoting RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 343, cmt. b.
(1965)) (alterations in original).
However, “[a] possessor of land is not liable to his [or her] invitees for
physical harm caused to them by any activity or condition on the land whose
danger is known or obvious to them, unless the possessor should anticipate the
harm despite such knowledge or obviousness.” lwai v. State, 129 Wn.2d 84, 94,
915 P.2d 1089 (1996) (citing RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 343A(1) (1965)).
“Washington courts have long held that there is no duty to warn a business invitee
about conditions of which the invitee has actual knowledge.” Barker v. Skagit
-6—
No. 79274-1-1/7
Speedway, Inc., 119 Wn. App. 807, 813, 82 P.3d 244 (2003). Where an alleged
unsafe condition is both obvious and known to the plaintiff, the defendants owe no
duty to warn of this condition. Seiber v. Poulsbo Marine Ctr., Inc., 136 Wn. App.
731, 740, 150 P.3d 633 (2007).
On appeal, Tinsley does not argue that summary judgment was improper
on the ground that she raised a question of material fact as to whether Miller
breached her duty to Tinsley as an invitee. Rather, she contends that she raised
a question of material fact regarding her legal status as an invitee or a licensee,
which the trial court was barred from determining as a matter of law because
Miller’s opening brief argued only that she did not breach her duty to Tinsley as a
licensee.
Miller asserts that the trial court did not rule as a matter of law that Tinsley
was an invitee. Rather, the court gave Tinsley the benefit of the doubt by assuming
she was an invitee, then dismissed her claim because the evidence in the record
established that Miller breached no duty to Tinsley. Miller further asserts that the
trial court properly considered this argument because it was raised in rebuttal to
Tinsley’s opposition argument.
Tinsley cites White for the proposition that “[ajllowing the moving party to
raise new issues in its rebuttal materials is improper because the nonmoving party
has no opportunity to respond.” White, 61 Wn. App. at 168. White is not analogous.
In White, the defendants’ initial motion for summary judgment asserted only that
the plaintiff lacked expert testimony regarding the standard of care. ki. at 166. The
defendants did not argue or even mention proximate cause until filing a rebuttal
-7—
No. 79274-1 -1/8
memorandum after the plaintiff filed her responsive materials. jç~ at 167. They
asserted that this was proper because evidence submitted by plaintiff in her
response brief included testimony concerning causation. jçj~. at 168. This court held
that the trial court erred by considering the issue of proximate cause first raised in
a reply memorandum, and in relying on that issue in granting summary judgment.
Id. at 169.
Here, Miller did not raise the question of duty for the first time in her reply
brief. Miller’s summary judgment motion argued that she did not breach her duty
to Tinsley as a licensee. Tinsley responded that there was a question of material
fact as to whether she was an invitee or a licensee, and pointed out that Miller
failed to argue that she did not breach the higher duty owed to invitees. In reply,
Miller conceded for the purpose of the motion that Tinsley was an invitee, and
asserted that summary judgment was nevertheless proper because Tinsley knew
of the hazards and proceeded anyway. The question of duty was not raised for
the first time in reply, and both parties had a fair opportunity to argue this issue.2
Under these circumstances, White does not control. Accordingly, the trial court
did not err in considering Miller’s argument that she did not breach any duty to
Tinsley, even assuming she was an invitee.
2 Because the record does not contain a transcript of the summary judgment hearing, it is
not possible to ascertain the parties’ oral arguments or the basis of the trial court’s decision.
However, the parties’ briefing on Tinsley’s motion for reconsideration indicates that the trial court
heard argument regarding whether Miller breached her duty to Tinsley as a licensee.
-8—
No. 79274-1 -119
Affirmed.
WECONCUR:
-9—
|
Q:
Preposition AT, IN and ON usage
A lot of popular media (specifically Disney) is STRONGLY rooted in characters created by other people.
I've learned English since Elementary School, and now decades later, I'm still struggling with the proper use of prepositions. I found the example above from some writing forum. I want to know why it's 'rooted in' not 'rooted at' or 'rooted on'?
A:
Sometimes more than one preposition can be used, and the meaning stays pretty much the same. For example:
This happened in the year 1893.
This happened during the year 1893.
Other times, only one preposition is idiomatic. In this case, rooted in is an expression that even gets its own entry in the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
rooted in (idiom) formed, made, or developed by using (something) as a basis
Her opinions are deeply rooted in her faith.
a dance rooted in African tradition
Sometimes there is a logical reason behind the correct preposition choice. As was said in a comment, in this case, plant roots go down into the soil, so in would make more sense than on or at. But I can see where it might be confusing, especially because of the way we say based on this, but rooted in that.
|
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Behavioral Health
Behavior Health North County San Diego
North County Health Services (NCHS) provides a myriad of behavioral health services to patients all across the North County San Diego. Treating mental health can feel overwhelming or impossible for some people, but we are here to help you through every step of the way. Mental health may be difficult to work through on your own, which is why it’s important to have mental health facilities you can rely on to help improve your mental health and your quality of life from the inside out.
All of our medical staff is not only highly trained but very compassionate. We know that some conditions can be difficult to work through, especially those that are related to the mental health. Our compassionate experts can help you understand the condition and how to overcome it.
Mental Health
Our licensed mental health experts can provide assessments, therapy options and medication management services for a broad range of mental health conditions. These services and treatment options can help to improve behavioral health and improve an individual’s mental health in such a way that it can make them happier, more confident, and be able to enjoy life.
Below are a few examples of the many mental health conditions that we offer services for:
Treating your mental health conditions is very important, as poor mental health can negatively impact other areas of your life. Certain mental health conditions like anxiety, stress, depression and other conditions may not have the same physical signs as other physical conditions and illnesses. This makes mental health conditions harder for the average person to identify on their own.
If you think you or someone you know may be affected by certain mental health conditions, contact us today.
NCHS Locations for Behavior Health
If you are looking for a health facility to help improve behavior health for yourself, your family or loved ones, NCHS is here to help. At this time we have one location dedicated as a mental health clinic, staffed with professionally trained behavioral health experts. The following location provides not only mental health services, but a variety of other medical services that can improve the quality of your life.
Contact North County Health Services today to learn more about behavioral health care and to find a location near you. Our team is committed to providing quality and affordable health care, including mental health services, to those in need in North County and San Diego.
This health center is a Health Center Program grantee under 42 USC 254b, a deemed Public Health Service employee under 42 USC 233(g)-(n), and an FTCA deemed facility. NCHS complies with applicable Federal civil rights laws and does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, age, disability, or sex. |
Evaluating the unintended health consequences of poverty alleviation strategies: or what is the relevance of Mohammed Yunus to public health?
Public health researchers are increasingly shifting their attention away from merely documenting those factors that determine health--a solid evidence base on health determinants now exists--to improving our understanding of how various interventions influence population health. This paper argues for greater investigations of the potential unintended health benefits associated with participation in a poverty alleviation strategy (PAS) in low-income countries. We focus on microcredit, a PAS that has been spreading across the developing world. Microcredit aims to address the "credit gap" between the poor and the better off by offering an alternative for the poor to acquire loans: small groups are formed and loans are allocated to members based on group solidarity instead of formal collateral. We argue that microcredit corresponds with activities that will help build up health capital (e.g., greater access to resources) and describe the main pathways from microcredit participation to health. We advocate that microcredit and other potential pro-health PAS be included among the range of interventions considered by public health researchers in improving the health of the poor. |
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After the draft every team in the NFL sign undrafted free agents. It’s a period of time that lasts until all rosters are full. Some teams sign a quarter of a roster full of them while others sign a smaller amount. All the teams are different, the Rams signed 11 officially, now we will take you through each one and what they bring to the table for the Rams.
Ishmael Adams, CB, UCLA (5-foot-8, 186 pounds)
Adams is going to be known by many Rams fans since he is from UCLA. He is a former cornerback that switched to wide receiver and had minimal production. In all honesty, to me, he is a cornerback and a return man that is really going to have his work cut out for him to make the 53 man roster.
At his school’s pro day, he ran a 4.50 forty yard dash and 15 reps on the bench. He doesn’t have the greatest vertical at 27 inches and his broad jump doesn’t turn heads either at just over 9 feet. He racked up 138 tackles, 4.5 for a loss, a half sack, eight interceptions, three returned for touchdowns and 12 pass breakups at cornerback. As a returner Adams averaged a whopping 24.2 yards per kick return.
The local kid was born in Inglewood, California, his dad Stefon Adams was drafted in the third round of the 1985 NFL Draft as a defensive back. Ishmael Adams saw extremely limited amount of playing time in his freshman year that he ended up redshirting and soon to be graduating with a degree in Sociology.
Jared Collins, CB, Arkansas (5-foot-11, 176 pounds)
Collins is a speedy cornerback who has been the bearer of consistency. He ran a 4.47, jumped a 36.5 inch vertical and almost an 11 foot broad jump so he has the nice measurables. The consistency is shown by the fact he keeps his numbers within the neighborhood of each other in categories such as tackles and pass breakups.
The razorback corner actually had quite the scare in 2013 when he randomly collapsed on the sidelines in the game versus Southern Mississippi. Obviously judging by the fact that was almost four years ago…it’s safe to say he’s okay.
The real issue with Collins is the fact he is so light, he will either need to add weight or battle hard and prove he can contribute on special teams.
Kevin Davis, ILB, Colorado State (6-foot-2, 235 pounds)
Davis was wearing horns in college and will apparently wear horns in the NFL with the Rams too. He was a combine participant that likely got written off after he ran a 4.91 forty yard dash. Davis adds the ability to drop in man or zone coverage and does make the sneaky touchdown saving tackles on running backs that are shiftier and faster than he is.
He’s a two-year starter that doesn’t really have the physical power or strength to finish tackles against better competition at the next level. He lacks the instincts and has a hard time getting off blocks. Coming to a team that just drafted two linebackers and added one via free agency, there is a good chance he is going to have all the odds against him.
Davis finished his career playing in 49 games, accumulating 257 tackles, 27 tackles for a loss, seven sacks and two interceptions. He will receive his degree in Sociology after spending five years with Colorado State University.
Justin Davis, RB, USC (6-foot-1, 208 pounds)
Another Davis, but more well-known Davis is Justin Davis who hails from USC. Rams fans get their UCLA and USC guy. Not quite Fabian Moreau or JuJu Smith-Schuster, but still players from the colleges. In all honesty, I like Justin Davis.
Davis was considered a late round grade due to his fumbling issues and past injury concerns that held back a promising career. He finished with 2,465 yards rushing, 19 touchdowns, 46 receptions, 400 yards receiving and two receiving touchdowns. As many already know the Trojans used Ronald Jones as well and he was the more productive of the two.
Davis has good open field vision, he’s elusive and can make a man miss in space. He ran a 4.53 forty yard dash which is well above the league RB average and he benched 21 reps on the bench press which makes him one of the strongest backs in the class. The big problem with Davis is he will dance in the backfield too often and doesn’t take action when running the football like the other backs do. Despite all of that, Davis could make this roster with the new coaching staff and the unknown opinions on RB’s Malcolm Brown and Aaron Green.
Jake Eldrenkamp, G, Washington (6-foot-4, 302 pounds)
This is the mystery offensive lineman Les Snead mentioned that the Rams had been close to signing, but couldn’t announce it until it was official. The Rams had Eldrenkamp at a seventh round grade and the rest of the league had him around that grade too. He’s an athletic and thinner offensive lineman than many look for, but he also has the versatility to play center according to scouts.
Eldrenkamp was real good last year, he improved his pass protections, but the big knock on him was when he played against a good pass rush he struggled mightily. Eldrenkamp has the bend and smooth movement skills you like to see in an offensive lineman, but he has plenty to improve on.
This is a project that could make the 53 if Aaron Kromer has anything to say about it. Kromer might end up making this kid the starting center if he sees enough in his game. You are pretty much swinging for the fences on this kid, but without spending a pick on him the Rams will take that all day.
Anthony McMeans, C, New Mexico State (6-foot-1, 316 pounds)
McMeans has been working hard to keep his family life moving along without a hitch. In an interview with Arrowhead Addict, he explained that his lease is up in May and is trying everything he can to keep him, his girlfriend and his child taken care of. He has been getting up early each day working out in the gym and after that he’s been going to work to be able to support for him family.
One interesting thing of note is that McMeans went through his pro day with patella tendinitis he had suffered in his pro day training. He wasn’t sure until after the pro day. The reason it is interesting is because McMeans has been knocked for his lack of speed in which he ran a 5.74 forty yard dash, but there is a possibility that he could have ran much faster had he not been hurt.
Emory Hunt of Football Gameplan loves McMeans and had this to say about him:
“Anthony McMeans of New Mexico State plays the position with passion and intensity. He may even be a very good guard prospect as a pro. He’s proficient in all aspects of the running game and he’s also above average in pass protection. Now, he does have a few athleticism limitations as far as defending quickness is concerned and climbing to the second level is where you can see some of that, but I do believe if he loses about ten pounds, he can definitely overcome those limitations. I really like his footwork in regards to the running game and his short area footwork also helps him in the blitz pickup department”
McMeans in my opinion has a legit shot to make the roster and play center for the Rams.
Johnny Mundt, TE, Oregon (6-foot-4, 243 pounds)
Mundt is a player that was one of the Rams 30 pre-draft private visits. Apparently the Rams must have liked him a lot. He posted some solid numbers at his pro day, running a 4.74 forty, 30 inch vertical and 21 bench reps. Mundt was originally a top prospect coming to Oregon that suffered an injury and knocked him down the depth chart in favor of fellow undrafted free agent TE Pharoah Brown.
Mundt is coming into a TE group that is loaded with young talent in Gerald Everett, Tyler Higbee, Temarrick Hemingway, Travis Wilson and Bryce Williams who all have less than three years of NFL experience. Mundt also wasn’t overly productive in college finishing with only 683 receiving yards and eight touchdowns in 23 games.
Folarin Orimolade, OLB, Dartmouth (6-foot-0, 240 pounds)
“Flo” as they call him, is the ultimate underdog at 6 feet. He ran a weak 40 yard dash at 4.92, but he had a nice vertical jump of 36 inches and benched 21 reps on the bench press. Flo isn’t just some undersized nobody though, he won the defensive player of the year award for the Ivy League and has a nice career.
He tallied 143 tackles, 35 tackles for a loss, eight pass breakups, 10 forced fumbles and 23.5 sacks in 40 games. Orimolade comes in and instantly brings experience as a captain and a man with his priorities straight as he already graduated two semesters early with a degree in economics.
He is going to have a tough time making the roster only because of how many linebackers are on the Rams squad right now, but he has talent off the edge and is quick footed with instincts like fellow Ram teammate and seventh-round pick Ejuan Price. He definitely doesn’t look like a 4.9 forty player on film that’s for sure.
Aarion Penton, CB, Missouri (5-foot-10, 198 pounds)
This Missouri Tiger is a ball hawk and makes that his mantra on the field. He doesn’t have great long speed at 4.61 in the forty, but he has soft hands that make interceptions come easy for him. He finished his career playing in 45 games and ending up with 153 total tackles, 7.5 tackles for a loss, 10 interceptions, one pick six and 31 pass breakups.
Penton is a lot like Gaines, but he lacks the cover skills against players inside the numbers that Gaines simply doesn’t. Penton has a hard time in one-on-one tackle opportunities and it shows by the amount of missed tackles you see on film.
With a cornerback room of: Trumaine Johnson, Kayvon Webster, E.J. Gaines, Mike Jordan, Troy Hill, Blake Countess, Ishmael Adams, Jared Collins, Nickell Robey-Coleman and Kevin Peterson. It’s likely Penton is going to have to claw his way onto the roster.
Casey Sayles, DT, Ohio (6-foot-4, 289 pounds)
Sayles is a defensive tackles that can rip through the line and rush the passer. He doesn’t have the long speed you would like to see at his weigh, but he’s quick and deceptively fast when chases quarterbacks to the sideline.
With the question marks on the defensive line and not knowing how many players the Rams plan to keep on the defensive line in their first year switched over to the 3-4 scheme. Sayles could have a chance to carve out a role in camp.
Sayles finished his collegiate career with 110 total tackles, 19.5 tackles for a loss, 11.5 sacks, 6 pass breakups and three fumble recoveries.
Dravious Wright, DB, NC State (5-foot-10, 194 pounds)
Wright is known for helmet jarring hits during his time as a member of the Wolfpack. Wright has the combo safety/nickel corner type of build that will give him some value to keep around in camp.
He is likely going to have to prove himself on special teams since he doesn’t really have the skillset the other safeties on the roster possess.
0 0 vote Article Rating |
Q:
Extracting data from struct sk_buff
I'm attempting to extract data from a struct sk_buff, but have not received the output I am expecting. The frame in question is 34 bytes; a 14-byte Ethernet header wrapped around an 8-byte (experimental protocol) header:
struct monitoring_hdr {
u8 version;
u8 type;
u8 reserved;
u8 haddr_len;
u32 clock;
} __packed;
After this header, there are two, variable-length hardware addresses (their lengths are dictated by the haddr_len field above). In the example here, they are both 6 bytes long.
The following code extracts the header (the struct) correctly, but not the two MAC addresses that follow.
Sender side:
...
skb = alloc_skb(mtu, GFP_ATOMIC);
if (unlikely(!skb))
return;
skb_reserve(skb, ll_hlen);
skb_reset_network_header(skb);
nwp = (struct monitoring_hdr *)skb_put(skb, hdr_len);
/* ... Set up fields in struct monitoring_hdr ... */
memcpy(skb_put(skb, dev->addr_len), src, dev->addr_len);
memcpy(skb_put(skb, dev->addr_len), dst, dev->addr_len);
...
Receiver side:
...
skb_reset_network_header(skb);
nwp = (struct monitoring_hdr *)skb_network_header(skb);
src = skb_pull(skb, nwp->haddr_len);
dst = skb_pull(skb, nwp->haddr_len);
...
Expected output:
I used tcpdump to capture the packet in question on the wire, and saw this (it was actually padded to 60 bytes by the sender's NIC, which I've omitted):
0000 | 00 90 f5 c6 44 5b 00 0e c6 89 04 2f c0 df 01 03
0010 | 00 06 d0 ba 8c 88 00 0e c6 89 04 2f 00 90 f5 c6
0020 | 44 5b
The first 14 bytes is the Ethernet header. The following 8 bytes (starting with 01 and ending with 88) should be the bytes put into the struct monitoring_hdr, which executes correctly. Then, I am expecting the following MAC addresses to be found:
src = 00 0e c6 89 04 2f
dst = 00 90 f5 c6 44 5b
Actual output:
However, the data that I receive is shifted two bytes to the left:
src = 8c 88 00 0e c6 89
dst = 04 2f 00 90 f5 c6
Can anyone see a logical flaw in above code? Or is there a better way to do this? I've also tried skb_pull in place of skb_network_header on the receiving side, but that resulted in a kernel panic.
Thanks in advance for any help.
SOLUTION:
The pointer to the first byte of the data in the sk_buff was not being pointed to by src as it should have been. I ended up using the following:
...
skb_reset_network_header(skb);
nwp = (struct monitoring_hdr *)skb_network_header(skb);
skb_pull(skb, offsetof(struct monitoring_hdr, haddrs_begin));
src = skb->data;
dst = skb_pull(skb, nwp->haddr_len);
...
A:
Looking at the skbuff.h header, the functions you are using look like this:
static inline void skb_reset_network_header(struct sk_buff *skb)
{
skb->network_header = skb->data - skb->head;
}
static inline unsigned char *skb_network_header(const struct sk_buff *skb)
{
return skb->head + skb->network_header;
}
extern unsigned char *skb_pull(struct sk_buff *skb, unsigned int len);
static inline unsigned char *__skb_pull(struct sk_buff *skb, unsigned int len)
{
skb->len -= len;
BUG_ON(skb->len < skb->data_len);
return skb->data += len;
}
So first, I would try printing out skb->data and skb->head to make sure they are referencing the parts of the packet you expect them to. Since you are using a custom protocol here, perhaps there is a bug in the header processing code which is causing skb->data to be set incorrectly.
Also, looking at the definitions of sky_network_header and skb_pull makes me think perhaps you are using them incorrectly. Shouldn't the first 6-byte addr be at the location pointed to be the return value of skb_network_header()? It looks like that function adds the length of the header block to the head of the buffer, which should result in a pointer to your first data value.
Similarly, it looks like skb_pull() adds the length of the field you pass in and returns the pointer to the next byte. So you probably want something more like this:
src = skb_network_header(skb);
dst = skb_pull(skb, nwp->haddr_len);
I hope that helps. I'm sorry that this is not an exact answer.
|
Bridesmaid Dresses
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Whether you want your bridesmaids in a short dress or long dress, the options and style combinations are virtually endless.The comfortable fabrics that Faviana’s designers have selected for this collection allow for the perfect drape for all shapes! Faviana focuses on styles that feature intricate lace detail or rich embellishments, as well as sexy side cutouts to create the perfect hourglass figure. Your bridesmaids are sure to thank you as they walk down the aisle in style! |
The BBC is reporting that police arrived at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Connecticut soon after 09:40 local time today, answering reports that a gunman was in the school's main office.
The Los Angeles Times reports that "...according to State Police spokesman Paul Vance, the gunman entered the school and fired at students and staff in one section – two rooms – at the school." Lt Vance later said 18 children were pronounced dead at the school, and two died after they were taken to hospital. Six adults were also killed. The gunman died at the scene. The Wall Street Journal reports state police saying another victim was found dead elsewhere in Newtown, putting the total toll at 28.
Early reports named 24-year-old Ryan Lanza as the gunman, but officials later said his brother Adam, 20, was the suspect. Ryan Lanza was being questioned by police, the Associated Press and New York Times reported.
[Note to all: we discussed this and are going to go with this as the topical thread. Thanks everyone for being patient while the news did its thing. ]posted by restless_nomad at 2:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
My heart goes out to the families of the children and of the teacher killed by her own adult child.
Newtown is as peaceful a place as I can think of in Connecticut. And for a person to enter a K-4 elementary school and kill children ... it just speaks to incredible illness.posted by zippy at 2:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
I don't usually think of the cops in these kinds of situations but that would have to be a crime scene that would haunt you to your grave.posted by Egg Shen at 2:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [84 favorites]
"When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, "Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping." To this day, especially in times of "disaster," I remember my mother's words and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers – so many caring people in this world." -Fred Rogersposted by Blasdelb at 2:28 PM on December 14, 2012 [341 favorites]
This is good. Thank you for setting it up this way.posted by Auguris at 2:28 PM on December 14, 2012
As a new parent, I have noticed a difference in my reactions to any tragic news involving children (Syria, Sandy, Bopha, and now Newtown). It's much, much more visceral and I find myself almost frozen in an indescribable state of terror and guilt.
. for the victims.
. for the lack of words to accurately describe my feelings.
! for my imminent action to donate to the Brady Center and any other organization dedicated to helping make sure this cannot occur again.posted by CancerMan at 2:30 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Nobody died in the Chinese knife attack so far. Guns, they are part of the problem.posted by Drinky Die at 2:31 PM on December 14, 2012 [63 favorites]
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
There are already a good number of public figures and organizations today (nevermind internet commentors like us) who have made it publicly known that they don't seem to notice or care about the first three words.posted by zombieflanders at 2:33 PM on December 14, 2012 [23 favorites]
His solution: Increase the tax on bullets. He wouldn’t raise the tax on ammunition typically used for target shooting or hunting. But he proposed exorbitant taxes on hollow-tipped bullets designed to penetrate armor and cause devastating damage.
“Ten thousand percent,” Mr. Moynihan said.
That would have made the tax on a 20-cartridge pack of those bullets $1,500. “Guns don’t kill people; bullets do,” said Senator Moynihan, a Democrat who died in 2003.
They were interviewing a fourth grade boy on the radio who described what they heard from the gym and how they all hid in the supply closet before being evacuated by the police. They saw a guy facedown on the ground, handcuffed. I had to switch stations after that because I started crying, even though the kid sounded calm, but jesus fuck. No one, let alone an 8-year-old, should have to go through that.posted by book 'em dano at 2:36 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
"In times of community or world-wide crisis, it's easy to assume that young children don't know what's going on. But one thing's for sure -- children are very sensitive to how their parents feel. They're keenly aware of the expressions on their parents' faces and the tone of their voices. Children can sense when their parents are really worried, whether they're watching the news or talking about it with others. No matter what children know about a “crisis,” it’s especially scary for children to realize that their parents are scared.
Some Scary, Confusing Images:
The way that news is presented on television can be quite confusing for a young child. The same video segment may be shown over and over again through the day, as if each showing was a different event. Someone who has died turns up alive and then dies again and again. Children often become very anxious since they don’t understand much about videotape replays, closeups, and camera angles. Any televised danger seems close to home to them because the tragic scenes are taking place on the TV set in their own livingroom. Children can't tell the difference between what's close and what's far away, what's real and what's pretend, or what's new and what's re-run.
The younger the children are, the more likely they are to be interested in scenes of close-up faces, particularly if the people are expressing some strong feelings. When there's tragic news, the images on TV are most often much too graphic and disturbing for young children.
“Who will take care of me?”:
In times of crisis, children want to know, "Who will take care of me?" They're dependent on adults for their survival and security. They're naturally self-centered. They need to hear very clearly that their parents are doing all they can to take care of them and to keep them safe. They also need to hear that people in the government and other grownups they don’t eveen know are working hard to keep them safe, too.
Helping Children Feel More Secure:
Play is one of the important ways young children have of dealing with their concerns. Of course, playing about violent news can be scary and sometimes unsafe, so adults need to be nearby to help redirect that kind of play into nurturing themes, such as a hospital for the wounded or a pretend meal for emergency workers.
When children are scared and anxious, they might become more dependent, clingy, and afraid to go to bed at night. Whining, aggressive behavior, or toilet "accidents" may be their way of asking for more comfort from the important adults in their lives. Little by little, as the adults around them become more confident, hopeful and secure, our children probably will, too.
Turn Off the TV:
When there's something tragic in the news, many parents get concerned about what and how to tell their children. It's even harder than usual if we're struggling with our own powerful feelings about what has happened. Adults are sometimes surprised that their own reactions to a televised crisis are so strong, but great loss and devastation in the news often reawaken our own earlier losses and fears – even some we think we might have "forgotten"
It's easy to allow ourselves to get drawn into watching televised news of a crisis for hours and hours; however, exposing ourselves to so many tragedies can make us feel hopeless, insecure, and even depressed. We help our children and ourselves if we’re able to limit our own television viewing. Our children need us to spend time with them – away from the frightening images on the screen.
Talking and Listening:
Even if we wanted to, it would be impossible to give our children all the reasons for such things as war, terrorists, abuse, murders, major fires, hurricanes, and earthquakes. If they ask questions, our best answer may be to ask them, "What do you think happened?" If the answer is "I don't know," then the simplest reply might be something like, "I'm sad about the news, and I'm worried. But I love you, and I'm here to care for you."
If we don't let children know it's okay to feel sad and scared, they may think something is wrong with them when they do feel that way. They certainly don't need to hear all the details of what's making us sad or scared, but if we can help them accept their own feelings as natural and normal, their feelings will be much more manageable for them.
Angry feelings are part of being human, especially when we feel powerless. One of the most important messages we can give our children is, "It's okay to be angry, but it's not okay to hurt ourselves or others." Besides giving children the right to their anger, we can help them find constructive things to do with their feelings. This way, we'll be giving them useful tools that will serve them all their life, and help them to become the worlds' future peacemakers -- the world's future "helpers."
Helpful Hints:
Do your best to keep the television off, or at least limit how much your child sees of any news event.
Give your child extra comfort and physical affection, like hugs or snuggling up together with a favorite book. Physical comfort goes a long way towards providing inner security. That closeness can nourish you, too.
Try to keep regular routines as normal as possible. Children and adults count on their familiar pattern of everyday life.
Plan something that you and your child enjoy doing together, like taking a walk, going on a picnic, having some quiet time, or doing something silly. It can help to know there are simple things in life that can help us feel better, in good times and in bad.
Even if children don't mention what they've seen or heard in the news, it can help to ask what they think has happened. If parents don't bring up the subject, children can be left with their misinterpretations. You may be really surprised at how much your child has heard from others.
Focus attention on the helpers, like the police, firemen, doctors, nurses, paramedics, and volunteers. It's reassuring to know there are many caring people who are doing all they can to help others in this world.
Let your child know if you're making a donation, going to a town meeting, writing a letter or e-mail of support, or taking some other action. It can help children to know that adults take many different active roles and that we don't give in to helplessness in times of worldwide crisis.
I picked my grandson up from his bus stop this afternoon. I guess I won't have the radio on in front of him for the forseeable future. Only partly because I don't want him hearing any of these details-he's only a kindergartener-but because I can't listen without bursting out into tears.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
They were interviewing a fourth grade boy on the radio
The news stations have been interviewing a lot of the kids. I could make more sense of it when it was high school kids after a shooting but with kids this young I don't get why the parents are letting it happen. Go home and be a family together, leave the news to the press conferences.posted by Drinky Die at 2:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [52 favorites]
When I met my husband-to-be on line, he lied to me. He told me he was a baggage handler at the airport rather than a postal worker because he was embarrassed by the term "going postal." In the 12 years that we have been together I don't think any postal workers have gone berserk-- it seems to be schools, malls, and movie theater shootings.
Interesting essay that looks at mass shootings from a different cultural angle than most.posted by tzikeh at 2:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [143 favorites]
If any of the reporters are shoving microphones in the kids' faces without full parental consent and participation, I, as a member of the media, would like to offer said reporters my most sincere dick-punchings.posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [56 favorites]
We are that much more horrified, and grieving en masse, because this happened as a single incident--and maybe because of the demographic and location--but we suffer this loss over and over and over again as a nation every. single. year.
This annual report from the Children’s Defense Fund documents the impact on children and teens (0-19) of weak gun laws and easy access to guns. The report is based on the latest information available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2007) and includes information on gun homicides, suicides, and unintentional shooting deaths by age group, race/ethnicity, and state.
Key findings:
In 2007, 3,042 children lost their lives to gun violence and an additional 17,523 suffered non-fatal gun injuries and the emotional aftermath that followed (p. 1).
The annual number of firearm deaths of white children and teens decreased by 54 percent between 1979 and 2007, while the deaths of black children and teens increased by 61 percent (p. 8).
The number of children and teens in America killed by guns in 2007 would fill more than 122 public school classrooms of 25 students each (p. 2).
The 3,042 children and teens killed by gunfire in the U.S. in 2007 is comparable to the total number of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq and four times the number of American combat fatalities in Afghanistan to date (p. 1).
More preschoolers (under age 5) died by gunfire (85) than law enforcement officers (57) killed in the line of duty (p. 2).posted by availablelight at 2:43 PM on December 14, 2012 [59 favorites]
I suppose for me the thing that transforms this from terrible to maddening is a sickening sense that, once again, nothing will be done, and nothing will change, and this will happen again. I hope Obama meant it when he declared that something must be done, but this is the third mass shooting this year alone, and what has been done?
Fine, gun enthusiasts. You want gun control off the table? Give me an alternative. Make a suggestion, and an honest one, backed up by real data and research. Give me an answer that will make something like this so anomalous as to be unthinkable, instead of what it is now, which is inevitable.
Because it is, for me, as though fate had aligned to make the point as clearly as possible. There were two attacks on schools today, one in China, one in the U.S. In China, the attacker had a knife. In America, a gun.
Where dips the rocky highland
Of Sleuth Wood in the lake,
There lies a leafy island
Where flapping herons wake
The drowsy water-rats.
There we've hid our fairy vats
Full of berries,
And of reddest stolen cherries.
Come away, O, human child!
To the woods and waters wild
With a fairy hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than
you can understand.
Huckabee: Schools ‘A Place Of Carnage’ Because We ‘Systematically Removed God’
Oh, go to hell, Huck. Do the Amish not have enough God in their community too? I better not hear Fox News whining about people talking about gun control. If they are gonna blame the first amendment I can blame the second.posted by Drinky Die at 2:48 PM on December 14, 2012 [35 favorites]
Huckabee: Schools ‘A Place Of Carnage’ Because We ‘Systematically Removed God’
Because if there's one thing we know for sure, it's that prayer makes you immune to bullets. Remind me where I've heard that one before?
But seriously, what with all the gun-nuts running around demanding that we not "politicize the tragedy" by having an honest national discussion of the circumstances that brought us to where we are today, trust Mike Huckabee to find a way to really politicize it, and in the most callous and insensitive fashion imaginable to boot.posted by fifthrider at 2:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [18 favorites]
This is heartbreaking. I was already upset about the knife attack on 22 children in a school in China earlier this morning
Yeah I don't know if it is just bias confirmation but yesterday my husband and I noticed independently that here in Raleigh we seem to have seen a spike in the number of firearm murders just in the last couple of weeks. A mom and two kids. A husband and wife. An Indian restaurant owner. A young man. On and on. Nothing ties them together, just guns and death.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
Huckabee: Schools ‘A Place Of Carnage’ Because We ‘Systematically Removed God’
Schools aren't the only place we need more God in. Let's talk about all the people who desperately need some kind of mental health care, who we just call "loony" or "evil" and Other and ignore, grateful that we're not one of Them, hateful that They exist. Doesn't God want us to love one another? Shouldn't we start loving each other BEFORE the guns come out?
What's happening here is a tragedy, but the tragedy runs deeper than any mainstream media outlet will acknowledge. Or any fucknut Republican ex-candidate, for that matter.posted by Rory Marinich at 2:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [23 favorites]
Gun control proponents have been gathering at the White House, but I think they're on the wrong side of the river to do any good. The NRA headquarters are down the road in NOVA.posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 2:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
I figure if we can post about Huckabee's bloviating, then this is fair game.posted by RakDaddy at 2:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
I got an email from my kids school about this - we're in Wahington, so it's really just boilerplate stuff, they are award of the situation, general safety, how to talk to children about it, and so on. Still, you NEVER want anything from your kids school with the word "shooting" I'm it, and that's the second one this year.
I am not sure what the hell I am doing in a country where that sort of thing is necessary.posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Drinky Die writes "Nobody died in the Chinese knife attack so far. Guns, they are part of the problem."
After these massacres our public officials regularly vow that a “conversation” — whatever that means — has to take place about guns. After which they throw up their hands and lament that “political reality” dictates that no actual discussion about gun policy could possibly go anywhere. And nothing happens.
This time I want to believe things may be different. This seems like a level of horror that belongs to a whole different category, one that has the potential to shame our public officials into action, as long as we insist that there is no other moral alternative.
There was a hint of this in President Obama’s remarks today. Choking up with emotion, he said: “The majority of those who died today were children. Beautiful little kids between the ages of five and 10 years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them. Birthdays. Graduations. Weddings. Kids of their own.”
“As a country we have been through this too many times,” Obama added. “We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.”
Let’s believe he means it, while simultaneously insisting he prove it. Obama’s statement rose to the occasion emotionally, but the unique horror of today’s events demands that Obama and other public officials rise to the occasion politically.
You’re not supposed to say this on days like today, but political action is exactly what’s needed. The usual voices will try to shut down the debate by warning against “politicizing” the tragedy. But we should “politicize” it, if by that we mean undertaking a discussion about how our elected officials can act to stop this madness.
Gun violence is one area where something approaching a bipartisan consensus has formed among commentators and observers that reform is imperative, even as the only people who continue to refuse to act are those in a position to actually change things. This time, our public officials — the president included — simply must start an actual policy discussion about the appropriate response to the slaughter caused by the easy availability of guns. Not just a “conversation” about how screwed up our culture is or the usual argument over whether Evil and/or mental illness are the real culprits (as the gun rights advocates tell us) that require addressing. It’s easy access to guns that translates the darkest of human impulses, whatever their cause, into the massacre of innocent children.
Work was anything but silent after we heard about this (New Haven CT). Everyone wanted to talk about it--we had a lot of people watching and spreading the most up-to-date news (as well as "news"). I'm not sure how much of it was the excitement of gossiping about a massive, tragic, fairly local, ongoing event. Hopefully most of my coworkers were just trying to parse it or recognize it in their own ways. I'm not sure what's an appropriate reaction to something like this.posted by Baethan at 2:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Gun control proponents have been gathering at the White House, but I think they're on the wrong side of the river to do any good. The NRA headquarters are down the road in NOVA.
They're out in the exurbs, which in all likelihood is precisely to prevent this kind of action from taking place as often as it does in DC.posted by zombieflanders at 2:53 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
The part that I saw that made the most sense was the quoted thingy about tribal affiliation. World view and tribal affiliation matters more than science of facts.
It also brings to mind a whole slew of things I've read recently about the phenomenon known as "running amok" and how it is considered a culturally linked reaction. The things people have linked to above about what kinds of people are more likely to act out in this manner is interesting in that line of thought as well.
No solutions, but commentary at least. Hopefully some understand will come out of it, eventually.posted by daq at 2:53 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
How the media ID'd the wrong guy:
Would that be libel, slander, or defamation? At what point can you sue the media for the tremendous damage to your reputation they caused?posted by ceribus peribus at 2:54 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is anecdote not data.
You want data on guns being better at killing people than knives? Is the gradual falling out of favor of swords as the primary tool in modern warfare data or anecdote?posted by Drinky Die at 2:54 PM on December 14, 2012 [118 favorites]
Also, a gem of a video that got buried when the other thread got folded in:
ESPN has asked its staff to refrain from using the word "shooter" and basically stop tweeting altogether. Good move.
I don't think I understand. Is there some question as to whether or not there was a shooter? I understand things like refraining from putting out the name of the person alleged to have done this at least until the cops confirm it, but "shooter"?
Or is there perhaps some other reason for not saying "shooter" that I'm just missing entirely?posted by Flunkie at 2:55 PM on December 14, 2012
The 10th Regiment of Foot: "Gun control proponents have been gathering at the White House, but I think they're on the wrong side of the river to do any good. The NRA headquarters are down the road in NOVA."
Gun control proponents showing up at the NRA HQ does not sound like something that would end well.posted by tonycpsu at 2:55 PM on December 14, 2012
Flunkie: "Shooter" is a basketball term, someone who "shoots" the ball into the net from a distance. ESPN reports on basketball and thus the request to not use any terminology related to guns.posted by CancerMan at 2:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
You want data on guns being better at killing people than knives? Is the gradual falling out of favor of swords as the primary tool in modern warfare data or anecdote?
Believe it or not, I just got out of a rather flabbergasting argument on /b/ with a number of individuals who were thoroughly convinced that one would be safer fighting a man with a gun hand-to-hand than a man with a knife, because you could "deflect the barrel," and who believed firmly that the average person would have a harder time killing with a gun than with a knife because it apparently takes more skill to use a pistol than a knife effectively... (An argument that I thought was settled since about the dawn of the Meiji Restoration.)
If anything, this proves that this nation desperately needs a pro-knife lobby to balance things out.posted by fifthrider at 2:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [13 favorites]
I've been hearing from friends and family members who have called today just to check in and say "Hi Mom." It's a sad day for all of us who work in schools.posted by Lynsey at 2:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Or is there perhaps some other reason for not saying "shooter" that I'm just missing entirely?
While reporting sports news, ESPN is more likely to use the word shooter in a different context than referring to today's tragedy.
BBC: "Dressed in black and wearing a bullet-proof vest, the gunman is thought to have had several weapons at the school, although it is not clear whether he used more than one."
NYT: "Law enforcement officials said the weapons used by the gunman were a Sig Sauer and a Glock. In addition to the two handguns, the police also found an M4 carbine at the scene that they believe belonged to the gunman."
Assuming for the purposes of discussion, these two reports are true, two inferences are probable: 1) there was premeditation and 2) the assailant will likely be found to possess considerable right-wing political literature.
It's statistically likely. These events look more and more alike, the more you study them in detail.
It will be several days at least before we start seeing reliable information on the assailant's background.posted by warbaby at 2:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Or is there perhaps some other reason for not saying "shooter" that I'm just missing entirely?
I imagine not to use 'shooter' in the sports sense (shoot the puck, shoot hoops?) as to not collide with tweets relating to the shooting and risk being taken out-of-context as insensitive.posted by mazola at 2:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, wait, maybe ESPN wants to temporarily avoid referring to basketball players who take shots as "shooters"? Rather than wanting to avoid referring to the person who did this as a "shooter"?posted by Flunkie at 2:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, love is not always enough to help the mentally ill. What is?
Well, like, I meant the kind of love that leads to us deciding to invest in a much more effective mental health program across America. Maybe start by acknowledging that mental health is a serious thing, the mentally ill aren't just punch lines to jokes, and that we have to treat it as seriously as we treat physical illness? It's embarrassing, the way this country talks about this issue.posted by Rory Marinich at 2:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [31 favorites]
The thought foremost in my mind whenever one of these happens is 'Surely this will be the one that prompts some sort of action'. Then the next one comes around, and everyone once again starts talking about shooting sprees as if they're an inevitable part of American life.
Maybe it's because I never lived in the USA long enough to absorb the culture, but I don't understand why this is considered such a hard problem to solve. How about a 10-year gun ban, just to see what happens? Ten years without any handguns or automatic weapons to play with is surely worth it if it might drastically reduce killing sprees like this.posted by anaximander at 2:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I feel really terrible for poor Ryan Lanza. First the media fingers him as the killer, then he learns that his mother is dead, his brother having killed her, two dozen other innocents, mostly children, and then himself. And I'm really wondering about the other murder in town - the father in this family seems currently unaccounted for.posted by maryr at 2:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [58 favorites]
In addition to Brooker's observations above, Roger Ebert once offered this telling anecdote of how NBC interviewed him the day after the Columbine Massacre about how movies could inspire this kind of violence. He disagreed and went further:
"Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."
They were interviewing a fourth grade boy on the radio who described what they heard from the gym and how they all hid in the supply closet before being evacuated by the police. They saw a guy facedown on the ground, handcuffed. I had to switch stations after that because I started crying, even though the kid sounded calm, but jesus fuck. No one, let alone an 8-year-old, should have to go through that.
What is weird to me is that all of the kids they are interviewing seem so completely calm. I watched an interview of a third grade girl earlier, and she was almost eerily serene throughout. Are these kids just in shock, or what?posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:00 PM on December 14, 2012
Note that the report includes anyone under the age of 20 as a child. Many of the children killed in that report are soldiers in the drug war which is one of the reasons why poor (IE:black) children are over represented.posted by Mitheral at 3:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Drinky Die writes "Nobody died in the Chinese knife attack so far. Guns, they are part of the problem."
Following the fatal shooting this morning at a Connecticut elementary school that left at least 27 dead, including 20 small children, sources across the nation shook their heads, stifled a sob in their voices, and reported fuck everything. Just fuck it all to hell.
Let's put the message of the Brooker video right here in the thread again: Mass shootings come in clusters because seeing news coverage of shootings -- NOT Batman, NOT Grand Theft Auto, NOT Ice T or Marilyn Manson or other fictional work -- may convince fragile people that their voices will be heard if they shoot up a school. This is one of the reasons I personally am not surprised this is happening so often.
I am mulling today how feasible it would be for news outlets to not report the name or picture of a killer, as the psychiatrist in the Brooker video suggests. Social media would clearly make an end run around them, so that would be a problem. Or what if, as suggested, the coverage was limited to a local area? Would that squelch copycat killings?posted by gusandrews at 3:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
the assailant will likely be found to possess considerable right-wing political literature.
I've been listening to the radio and reading about this all day. I can't tear myself away, but I wonder if the reporting is part of the problem. Yet, when something like this happens - how can you not report on it?posted by insectosaurus at 3:02 PM on December 14, 2012
Believe it or not, I just got out of a rather flabbergasting argument on /b/ with a number of individuals who were thoroughly convinced that one would be safer fighting a man with a gun hand-to-hand than a man with a knife, because you could "deflect the barrel," and who believed firmly that the average person would have a harder time killing with a gun than with a knife because it apparently takes more skill to use a pistol than a knife effectively...
This does not surprise me at all, considering the type of people who tend to post on /b/.posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:02 PM on December 14, 2012
Drinky Die writes "Nobody died in the Chinese knife attack so far. Guns, they are part of the problem."
This is anecdote not data.
Saying 'there was a similar attack in China where a guy used a knife! Gun control won't stop people from going berzerk if they are going to do it' is an anecdote.
I've told this story a few times before, but it has never felt more relevant.
The night of 9/11 I was out on a fire escape of a friend's apartment in the east village. Everything was surreal that day, no way to process any of it, and the streets below me were completely empty.
And then I looked dow to see the image that will remain probably the most striking thing I will ever see in my life: a mother and daughter dancing hand in hand down the empty street, the daughter (about 4 or 5, I'd guess) laughing while the mother cried.
Today's tragedy struck my sister's family's community, though thank, well, everything they are all okay. These are the days parents suit up for.
My thoughts are with every parent doing the equivalent of dancing with their young children tonight, and especially with those who wish they could be.posted by Navelgazer at 3:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [64 favorites]
Maybe it's because I never lived in the USA long enough to absorb the culture, but I don't understand why this is considered such a hard problem to solve.
Because you need a Constitutional Amendment to ban (all) guns. That's extraordinarily difficult.
How about a 10-year gun ban, just to see what happens?
See above. It's unclear exactly where the constitutional line lies in terms of reasonable gun control. But a blanket ban would unquestionably fail the test. Even just a handgun ban rather than an all-gun ban is on extremely shaky ground.
I'm not sure I have a good answer here, but a blanket ban is not possible.posted by Justinian at 3:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Are these kids just in shock, or what?
Kids rarely act as you expect them to. They are not adults.
In some ways kids just kind of act as if everything is normal but the trauma can reveal itself in other ways that may be harder to detect and not immediately visible.
I think that the most distressing thing about all of this is how there have been enough mass school shootings in recent memory for "school shootings" to be a genre that people can comment about with some expertise.posted by LMGM at 3:04 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
As I mentioned in the deleted thread, year 2001 me never thought he'd see 2012 me write this, but The Onion really needs to back the hell off of this story for the time being.posted by item at 3:04 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
And for me, The Onion is, just now, saying the most honest and true things about this event. Maybe just don't read the site for today?posted by Bunny Ultramod at 3:06 PM on December 14, 2012 [93 favorites]
I got into an argument today with someone who insisted that a sufficiently motivated person will find a way to kill, with or without guns. He claimed that it would be just as easy to run an SUV through a crowd of people, so there is no point in trying to regulate guns any further.
Apparently, in his world, mass vehicular homicide is just as real of a threat as mass shootings. When I tried to point out that this is fairly ludicrous and not even a thing that actually, you know, happens, he insisted that it is.
I have no idea how to counter that type of willful ignorance and obstinance, but it runs deep in this country.posted by malocchio at 3:06 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
His solution: Increase the tax on bullets. He wouldn’t raise the tax on ammunition typically used for target shooting or hunting. But he proposed exorbitant taxes on hollow-tipped bullets designed to penetrate armor and cause devastating damage.
A very great number of the bullets used for hunting are hollow-tipped and they do not penetrate armour.posted by atrazine at 3:06 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Honestly, and I say this as a major proponent of gun control, that article is as fact-free and intuition-heavy as any of the pro-gun arguments I've been hearing.posted by invitapriore at 3:06 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Bless those teachers who took such good care of the children in their care. They kept their cool huddled in closets and did not add to the stress the kids were already feeling, doing what they could to allay the children's fears. They were the true heroes of the day.
My heart breaks for all involved. I can't imagine what those families are feeling.posted by NoraCharles at 3:07 PM on December 14, 2012 [17 favorites]
While I agree with Ebert, I'm still a bit angered whenever I see the poster for the new Red Dawn movie.posted by perhapses at 3:07 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Guns are not ever going to be banned in the US. Many people rely on hunting for a significant part of their food, even today. Farmers and ranchers need guns to put down injured animals and to hunt predators.
Even without getting into the whole self-defense question or the Constitutional question, guns are tools many people in the US need and use responsibly.posted by Sidhedevil at 3:07 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
A very great number of the bullets used for hunting are hollow-tipped and they do not penetrate armour.
The Onion really needs to back the hell off of this story for the time being.
The Onion combines emotional accuracy with saying the shit real journalists aren't allowed to say because of this stupid fucking "objective journalism" crap that results in nobody saying anything honest. I wish they were large enough to report on every national story this quickly.posted by Rory Marinich at 3:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [72 favorites]
Ok fine. The Onion is an agent of healing and without it millions would be lost. I just am not among those millions, I guess.posted by item at 3:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If any of the reporters are shoving microphones in the kids' faces without full parental consent and participation, I, as a member of the media, would like to offer said reporters my most sincere dick-punchings.
Fuck parental consent. They shouldn't be shoving microphones in those kids faces period.posted by kmz at 3:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [46 favorites]
Guns are not ever going to be banned in the US. Many people rely on hunting for a significant part of their food, even today. Farmers and ranchers need guns to put down injured animals and to hunt predators.
Yeah, us being the only country that has hunting and farms, we are in a unique situation worldwide.posted by FatherDagon at 3:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [117 favorites]
I realize that this is a controversial issue to talk about, but it is something that clearly needs to be talked about: none of these children would be dead if they had all been home schooled.posted by flarbuse at 3:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
Even without getting into the whole self-defense question or the Constitutional question, guns are tools many people in the US need and use responsibly.
What I generally hear proposed is a handgun ban which is different. That leaves hunters alone. But it's not clear that would survive a Constitutional challenge either.posted by Justinian at 3:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
perhapses: "While I agree with Ebert, I'm still a bit angered whenever I see the poster for the new Red Dawn movie."
Tell me about it. There are plenty of racist idiots salivating for my blood after they saw the movie. Doesn't exactly make me feel great about working in this country.posted by Phire at 3:11 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
>I realize that this is a controversial issue to talk about, but it is something that clearly needs to be talked about: none of these children would be dead if they had all been home schooled
I realize that this is a controversial issue to talk about, but it is something that clearly needs to be talked about: none of these children would be dead if they had all been home schooled.
Are you saying we should home school all children because school shootings? Because...I'm sorry, what.posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:11 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Reporter on NPR just talked about how kids in the school "knew what 'lockdown' meant" and had practiced for the eventuality. I can't get past my initial response of sadness to get to that actually being good news.posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:11 PM on December 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
While I agree with Ebert, I'm still a bit angered whenever I see the poster for the new Red Dawn movie.
Speaking of movies, Gangster Squad is only a few weeks away from it's rescheduled release.posted by ceribus peribus at 3:12 PM on December 14, 2012
I realize that this is a controversial issue to talk about, but it is something that clearly needs to be talked about: none of these children would be dead if they had all been home schooled.
What on earth? What is your point? That every child in America should be home schooled? That is hardly possible and that still leaves movie theaters, shopping malls, sports arenas, community centers, and many other places where large numbers of people including children gather.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:12 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
In some ways kids just kind of act as if everything is normal but the trauma can reveal itself in other ways that may be harder to detect and not immediately visible.
And adults frequently don't react to trauma or grief as you would expect them to, either. I remember that every time I hear someone say about a person found at the scene of a crime, "you can tell they had something to do with it, they didn't get teary or anything."posted by hat at 3:12 PM on December 14, 2012 [13 favorites]
item, I fully realize that satire may be an approach that is too difficult or too soon for you, but nobody is forcing you to follow those links.
Is BoingBoing the only place saying the killer was autistic? That's the first I've heard that.
I've seen it on at least two of the news blogs, attributed to the surviving brother (Ryan Lanza: "autistic or asperger's with a personality disorder"), but it must be said this is not something the police have formally said.posted by dhartung at 3:13 PM on December 14, 2012
I realize that this is a controversial issue to talk about, but it is something that clearly needs to be talked about: none of these children would be dead if they had all been home schooled.
Jesus, this whole thing makes me ill.posted by OmieWise at 3:14 PM on December 14, 2012
A handgun ban through legislation (as opposed to Constitutional amendment) would absolutely not survive a court challenge. District of Columbia v. Heller made that point crystal clear.posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Is there a way I can thank President Obama for his "meaningful action" speech, and to ask that he follow through? Is his twitter account still active?posted by CancerMan at 3:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
piyushnz: "This .gov petition on gun control - started after todays events - is fast approaching the required 25K mark."
Is BoingBoing the only place saying the killer was autistic? That's the first I've heard that.
Xeni Jardin (or anyone on BB) is the last source anyone should look to for any kind of fact-based reporting or balanced analysis. There is nothing in any of the articles linked from that post to indicate that the killer was autistic.posted by Ratio at 3:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Since it is now looking like the media might have reported (read: guessed) the wrong dead parent at home (some outlets are reporting that the mother was not at school but was the body found at home), I would really appreciate not guessing things like where the alleged killer or his brother falls on some sort of spectrum yet.posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:15 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Is BoingBoing the only place saying the killer was autistic? That's the first I've heard that.
FatherDagon, someone was asking why the US doesn't "ban guns". That is part of the reason. I am myself an advocate of enhancing gun control in the US.posted by Sidhedevil at 3:16 PM on December 14, 2012
I was already crying on the way home but I had to pull over while listening to the president speak.posted by theredpen at 3:17 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
malocchio writes "Apparently, in his world, mass vehicular homicide is just as real of a threat as mass shootings. When I tried to point out that this is fairly ludicrous and not even a thing that actually, you know, happens, he insisted that it is."
Happened at the my high school graduation bush party.
FatherDagon writes "Saying 'availability of guns has no effect on fatality rates' is idiocy."
I had this go around recently in another thread and I'm not really in the mood for it again so I'll sum up my opinion and bow out:
America has a Violent Culture problem not a lack of gun control problem. Many of these crimes are committed with already illegal weapons (though it appears not in this case so far). Concentrating on increasing gun controls will, in America, be ineffectual and at best mask some of the symptom. Money and effort put into trying to bandage this symptom with gun controls would IMO be better expended on addressing the violent culture problem.
It'll have to get in line 'cause the petition to build a Death Star already passed the 25Kposted by Mitheral at 3:17 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
none of these children would be dead if they had all been home schooled.
Later might be a good time for that, if there is in fact a good time for that. Now is not a good time.posted by jessamyn at 3:18 PM on December 14, 2012 [20 favorites]
They say, Presidents must be pushed to be great. Let's push Obama to be great on this issue.posted by angrycat at 3:18 PM on December 14, 2012 [25 favorites]
>Reporter on NPR just talked about how kids in the school "knew what 'lockdown' meant" and had practiced for the eventuality. I can't get past my initial response of sadness to get to that actually being good news.
We do lockdown drills twice a year at the high school where I teach. Same scenario as Newtown, just huddle with students in bathrooms, closets and behind bookshelves and wait quietly until we hear someone at the door give the code word or until we hear an all clear over the loudspeaker. What was the "duck and cover" drill for my generation is now the "lockdown drill" for this generation.posted by NoraCharles at 3:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [19 favorites]
Aside from talking about a reasonable approach to gun control, I would also like to see some approach to changing the angry male culture. Why do certain men feel the need to kill their children and their wives before committing suicide? Why do certain men feel the need to go to their ex-wives work place and kill everyone inside, customers as well as colleagues? Why do certain men feel the need to kill not just their mother but also everyone at their mother's workplace? I know it has something to do with control but how does our society address this problem and is it even possible?posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [82 favorites]
Okay so question, because I'm young and only started really paying attention to politics in 2006/2007, and I want to know how quickly I ought to squash my idealism:
This is the sort of the thing where, because it's Obama's second term, he gets to actually push for, right? Like, gun control, or mental health awareness, or generally trying to stop this shit from happening again? He can do that without meaningful political repercussion because he won't be voted in again? And he can, I dunno, use blackmail or scary faces or bribes to make the House stop being such lazy pieces of shit?
Because I vaguely remember Bush doing a lot of shit in the second term when he could get away with it, and it would be cool if Obama could try and make this country less shitty in a significant way, like with fewer kids getting shot to death and stuff. And I feel like the whole country is sad/pissed off enough about this that maybe we could get behind a president we don't 100% love who tries to make progress here? Or is it just shithead presidents who ignore process and break rules who get to do that? Fingers crossed!posted by Rory Marinich at 3:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [13 favorites]
I suppose Fox News and the Right will gladly cut money from providing social services like mental health care, leaving that to prayer.posted by reiichiroh at 3:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's humiliating that one bunch of assholes and their money get to short circuit a reasonable and intelligent approach to gun ownership. Especially as their actions ultimately serve up nightmares like these.
It's not that hard, doing it right. Look at, oh I don't know, most of the rest of the industrialized world.posted by From Bklyn at 3:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is the sort of the thing where, because it's Obama's second term, he gets to actually push for, right? Like, gun control, or mental health awareness, or generally trying to stop this shit from happening again? He can do that without meaningful political repercussion because he won't be voted in again? And he can, I dunno, use blackmail or scary faces or bribes to make the House stop being such lazy pieces of shit?
No. There are other issues to deal with and having to fight this huge battle would be distracting and use up resources that might be better used elsewhere.posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
! for my imminent action to donate to the Brady Center and any other organization dedicated to helping make sure this cannot occur again.
I heard Obama speak on the radio; if you read or heard it, you might find it worth watching too .
@Rory Marinich: Bush had political clout. Obama is best at staying out of the way.posted by Ardiril at 3:22 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
flarbuse
What tremendous insight! The true solution is even simpler, however. It is an undeniable fact that if the school had distributed handguns to those kindergarteners and trained them in their use, much of this tragedy could have been averted.
Because I vaguely remember Bush doing a lot of shit in the second term when he could get away with it
He tried to, anyway. The Social Security reform gambit failed miserably, and aside from the Iraq surge and playing whack-a-mole with scandals, he didn't have a very ambitious second term at all.
Second terms are generally tough for Presidents in general, but it might be different since Obama was constrained throughout his first term in ways that others wasn't.posted by tonycpsu at 3:23 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
.
I was volunteering at my children's elementary school this morning (about 45 minutes from Newtown) when a teacher pulled me aside to let me know about the shooting. There were no details available at that point ( who the shooters were, motives, how many there were) so the school went into a kind of semi-lockdown and police were posted outside all of the elementary schools in town. It was very calm but you could tell everyone was shaken up. It wasn't until I got in the car a hour later and turned on NPR that I understood the full horror of what had happened. I had just had lunch with my son's entire kindergarten class...all those wonderful, vibrant, jubilant little people...and in another town, not an hour away and not more than two hours earlier...all that was snuffed out. Just gone. I was yelling at the radio and crying...just so senseless.posted by victoriab at 3:23 PM on December 14, 2012 [20 favorites]
No. There are other issues to deal with and having to fight this huge battle would be distracting and use up resources that might be better used elsewhere.
I'm not actually worried that will happen, but I do relish the idea of creating more opportunities for certain scum to squirm under the glare of the immediate event.posted by dhartung at 3:23 PM on December 14, 2012
Happened at the my high school graduation bush party.
Mass vehicular homicide just doesn't happen at the same rate as mass shootings. If you can provide some evidence that it does, I'd be interested in seeing it.posted by malocchio at 3:24 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Aside from talking about a reasonable approach to gun control, I would also like to see some approach to changing the angry male culture.
This quote from Byron Hurt, which I still have not successfully sourced, sums it up:
"Until we stop telling boys that they can not cry, or show emotion, or that they have to be tough and powerful, and in control of people and things; and until we stop sending men the message that we cannot show vulnerability, or express our anger, sadness, disappointment, fear, and rage in healthy way, we will continue to see this kind of hypermasculine aggression, which perplexes only those who do not make the connection between masculinity, violence, and guns."
Secret Life of Gravy: Why do certain men feel the need to kill their children and their wives before committing suicide? Why do certain men feel the need to go to their ex-wives work place and kill everyone inside, customers as well as colleagues?
A cynical/strangely hopeful part of me imagines that the White House is going to allow the republicans to make public asses of themselves trying to spin this event, use the fall-out to handle the "fiscal cliff" and then hopefully move on to sensible gun control and mental health care.posted by Navelgazer at 3:26 PM on December 14, 2012
This is the sort of the thing where, because it's Obama's second term, he gets to actually push for, right?
Because it's his second term, he's limited in the amount of armtwisting he can do of his own caucus, let alone the GOP. Gun control is a non-starter, just because of the house.posted by empath at 3:26 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I remember my father telling me that when Korea started on its current strict gun control regimen, my grandfather was proud to hand in his hunting rifle to the authorities. He used to love hunting, my grandfather.
According to the law then, he was still allowed to have his gun, but he was proud to hand in his gun. Because it meant that Korea was a more civilized place. It could be counted among other first-world countries which controlled these dangerous weapons. It meant that he trusted the police to protect him, which certainly wasn't the case during the occupation. It meant that he believed that other people would hand in their guns, too.
To a great extent, Korea has become that sort of civilized place. I've literally never known any civilian in Korea who has a gun, even for hunting. The doors of Korean schools are not reinforced to withstand bullets. Gun are scary and are bogeymen from the movies. Even criminals don't usually use guns.
I can't imagine the gun-owners of today's America handing in their weapons in the belief that it would make the country a better place.posted by curuinor at 3:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [90 favorites]
See above. It's unclear exactly where the constitutional line lies in terms of reasonable gun control. But a blanket ban would unquestionably fail the test. Even just a handgun ban rather than an all-gun ban is on extremely shaky ground.
I understand that the majority consensus required to ban guns will likely never happen, I just don't understand why it will never happen. Because from where I'm standing, and from where a lot of other people are standing, any other course of action seems like utter insanity.posted by anaximander at 3:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yeah the right have worked hard to put out there the meme that Michael Moore is a hack liberal hack who never says a non-hack non-liberal thing about anything and so you shouldn't listen to him and put your hands over your ears and go LA LA LA when he's in the room. But really, watch Bowling for Columbine. Everything I could say here, he already said there.posted by JHarris at 3:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
What is weird to me is that all of the kids they are interviewing seem so completely calm.
I was in the lunch room when the gun was pulled. I saw that the doors were blocked by stampeding students, so I crouched behind a metal counter. There was one other person hiding behind the counter, one of the cafeteria workers. I don't really remember how long we stayed there or what happened next. After the shooter was captured, the school was "locked down" but a lot of students just left. Eventually we were all sent home early. Media and police were all over the campus.
This was before Columbine and other high-profile school shootings. There were no metal detectors or lockdown drills in schools. The media didn't really have a script for it yet, and it wasn't a scenario we had ever thought about. To me at age 14, it was something random and scary but also isolated and incomprehensible. I wasn't nearly as scared as I would be in the same situation today, because it just didn't... mean anything, I guess. I couldn't figure anything out about it. My parents were probably terrified, but I had no problem going back to school the next day.
I imagine that's about how some of the children at these schools feel. These days people in general are much more aware of school shootings, but hopefully most elementary kids at least have been somewhat sheltered from all that. Third-graders (with some exceptions, I know) haven't yet spent much time watching the evening news or playing M-rated video games or watching R-rated action movies, so they don't have an internal script for how to react to something like this. It will probably take a lot more time for them to figure out what to feel or do about it.posted by mbrubeck at 3:28 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
“long-term trends suggest that we are in fact currently experiencing a waning culture of guns and violence in the United States. “posted by bonefish at 3:29 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
.
Shortly before learning of the attack, my boss and I were having the usual political back-and-forth. It gets heated most days. One of my coworkers said it would be cool if we could dig up Reagan and have him be president. I said that I'd prefer to put Reagan's head on a pike. We're desecrating the body anyway, was my idea. Here my boss withdrew to his office, joking that the liberal was the angry one in this conversation.
He saw the news when he sat down at his computer and opened his browser.
America has a Violent Culture problem not a lack of gun control problem.
If this is the case, what is the solution? Because Ireland arguably has a comparatively violent culture problem, and yet the amount of gun deaths in the country is minimal (1.28 gun deaths of any sort per 100,00) and compared to the United States (2.98 gun deaths per 100,000 from homicides; 5.75 gun suicides per 100,000, and 0.27 per 100,000 deaths by accidental shootings).
What is it about the American character that makes it uniquely violent, what is it about that uniquely violent character that leads to so much gun violence, and what can be done to stem this? Aside from the fact the the U.S. has 88 guns for every hundred people, and Ireland has 5.posted by Bunny Ultramod at 3:29 PM on December 14, 2012 [23 favorites]
NBC BREAKING NEWS: Guns in massacre belonged to shooter's mother.posted by ericb at 3:29 PM on December 14, 2012
The Republicans have 234 in the House; they only need 218. They have 45 in the Senate; they only need 41 (because cowardly Democrats have unnecessarily conceded that you need 60 votes to pass as much as fart in that body, not the 50 that the Constitution suggests). Nothing will happen. Except more shootings, of course.
On the other hand that petition just got over the hump. I wonder if it's the fastest ever to do that.posted by Fnarf at 3:30 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.posted by Sidhedevil at 3:33 PM on December 14, 2012 [32 favorites]
Unspeakably sad. I'm so sorry.
As it happens, I'm just about out the door this morning to do the annual "Kurisumasu-kai" (Christmas presentation) at the kindergartens (3 of them) that I teach English and music at. There are about 20 to 30 kids, aged 2 to 5, that I teach once a week at each of the schools. I love those kids. Their parents (and many grandparents) will be there to hear the kids sing Christmas (and other) songs.
You can't imagine how thankful I am to live in a nation where gun control is very, very strict, and, conversely, my great sadness at the horrible state of affairs regarding guns and "gun rights" in the US. You couldn't find two more different societies in the world, in this particular regard. God, I hope the US at least begins the move toward a sane gun policy soon.posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:33 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
Christian Radio Host Bryan Fischer: God Didn’t Stop CT Shooting Because We Took Prayer Out Of Classroom.
Gun control doesn't have to be a non-starter unless you let it... says this could-be-married gay dude who remembers 2004. The quickest way to allow something not to get done is to continue to let your elected representatives off the hook because it's "too hard."posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:34 PM on December 14, 2012 [17 favorites]
Guns are not ever going to be banned in the US. Many people rely on hunting for a significant part of their food, even today. Farmers and ranchers need guns to put down injured animals and to hunt predators.
That's true, but I have legally owned a rifle and several shotguns in European countries with strict gun control regulations. More or less anyone over the age of 16 can get a shotgun in the UK. These weapons are designed for hunting and they are available. Less available are weapons designed for shooting people.
Happened at the my high school graduation bush party.
I don't doubt it, but I'm guessing the number of fatalities was relatively small.
Why do certain men feel the need to kill their children and their wives before committing suicide? Why do certain men feel the need to go to their ex-wives work place and kill everyone inside, customers as well as colleagues? Why do certain men feel the need to kill not just their mother but also everyone at their mother's workplace? I know it has something to do with control but how does our society address this problem and is it even possible?
It seems that it's often men who are raised with the culture of middle-class male entitlement but who have not been able to take advantage of that to actually succeed in life. They feel that the universe owes them certain things, often see their peers achieve those things and just end up totally unhinged with inchoate rage.
Oh yeah, he's a massive creeper and I wouldn't care to meet him in a dark alley, but if I wanted to know what Al Qaeda thought, I'd ask a former terrorist, you know?posted by atrazine at 3:35 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
How about "don't own assault weapons because they are very dangerous and 100% unnecessary"?posted by Ratio at 3:35 PM on December 14, 2012 [50 favorites]
> ban guns will likely never happen
We had an assault weapons ban. It was a weird law, covering aesthetics more than potential harm, but it was a step. I recently learned of Australia's gun laws which could be a model for the US-- they've taken a lot more steps which is probably expensive to administrate, but so is the DMV, eh?posted by morganw at 3:36 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've got about three conservative types on my facebook feed out of 150 or so, and yet there's almost never a time that I can't scorll down and find a load of pro-gun jizz sprayed all over my feed (hasn't happened yet today for some reason, but give them time). Given that our news distribution systems favor a vocal minority and almost never question faulty logic or made up statistics, I think Obama or anyone else's chance of accomplishing much on this issue are, saddly, nil.posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:37 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
To everyone complaining about Facebook & Twitter, I'll say this: some people make jokes, some people disappear, some will pray, some will say fuck it, there is no RIGHT way. There just IS.posted by Fizz at 3:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men
His argument is a little unconvincing, to me. He argues that white men expect to be welcomed in public spaces (true) and that this is why they are more likely1 to commit the sorts of mass killings that take place in such spaces.
But I find it hard to believe that the reasoning goes in that order—first the decision is made to commit your crime in a public place because you feel comfortable there, and subsequently it becomes a mass killing. Surely, first the decision is made to kill a lot of people, and subsequently the choice is made to do so in a public place because that is where you find large groups of people.
I think the question is a very interesting one, but his answer is unsatisfying.
1. He doesn't actually cite any data on the relative incidence of mass killing by race of perpetrator, and I am wary of assuming that we get a reasonably representative picture of mass killings and their perpetrators in media coverage, but it seems plausible enough.posted by enn at 3:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
atrazine, I was trying to distinguish between "gun control" and "gun ban". I advocate stricter gun control in the US. The post to which I was responding discussed "gun ban".posted by Sidhedevil at 3:39 PM on December 14, 2012
Gun control doesn't have to be a non-starter unless you let it... says this could-be-married gay dude who remembers 2004. The quickest way to get something not done is to continue to let your elected representatives off the hook.
It's just a matter of priorities. I'm not going to ask democrats to self-immolate over an issue that's maybe in my top 20, when I'm more concerned about a dozen other issues more than this. Realistically, the chances of you or your kids being a victim of a shooting are statistically insignificant, even at the rate random mass murders have been happening this year.posted by empath at 3:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
the chances of you or your kids being a victim of a shooting are statistically insignificant, even at the rate random mass murders have been happening this year.
I suppose my concern is that I simply consider mass shootings to be the vanguard of all sorts of gun violence. I don't simply want a resolution to spree killings, which would probably involve turning our schools into prison-like complexes with armed guards and metal detectors. Because as soon as the kids left school, they would be back on the streets, and back to their homes, where gun violence still is a fact of life.posted by Bunny Ultramod at 3:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've got about three conservative types on my facebook feed out of 150 or so, and yet there's almost never a time that I can't scorll down and find a load of pro-gun jizz sprayed all over my feed (hasn't happened yet today for some reason, but give them time).
I have three American friends who are pro-gun. Two are libertarian (on the socially progressive side) and one is a Dem - they're no Tea Partiers, just people who hold different political opinions than I do.
They're all pretty quiet today.
I know at least one of the three will post at some point in the future how gun owners are a maligned minority, and that's it's gun-wielding responsible "sheep dogs" like him that are protecting sheep like me.posted by KokuRyu at 3:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Onion article is tactless, insincere and too soon, for these reasons.
1. The Onion is an entertainment source that profits from pageviews. They are treating this event the exact same way that they would treat Mitt Romney slipping on a banana peel. Even CNN doesn't run ads on stories like this.
2. The thought that anyone's first reaction to this event is "Quick, how can we spin this into parody" is dismaying. Treating this like every other news story trivializes and normalizes the event.
3. The apathetic "fuck everything" sentiment is exactly what is not needed, either to help people grieve or to prevent these sorts of events from happening. "Fuck everything" is an utterly insincere sentiment that roughly equals "it's not my responsibility" or "there's nothing I can do about this so why even think about it." It is an expression of giving up.posted by oulipian at 3:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
This is known. What we're doing now? That's why this happens.posted by cmoj at 3:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
I feel like mental health is once again the elephant in the room few want to talk about. I get it is easier to control guns than it is to discuss the wide range of mental health topics, but the longer we ignore it the more we're going to have problems.posted by evening at 3:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [21 favorites]
NBC is reporting the reason for the ID confusion was that Adam Lanza was carrying his brother's ID, and that he was diagnosed mentally ill.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:48 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Onion's story was not a parody. It doesn't mock anything. Not even us.
What the Onion's story came from was the despair that comes from dead optimism.posted by curuinor at 3:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [57 favorites]
The Media is an Accomplice in Public Shootings
So we should limit the First Amendment because of shootings but not the Second... ummm, sorry "Forbes" blogger, but no.posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
When my son, Sean, died at the age of 20, it was accidental. Yes, someone made a mistake, but it wasn't intentional, they didn't want anyone to die. 22 years later I'm still angry with a God I'm not sure I even believe in, because there really is nobody else to blame.
Having experienced the accidental death of a child, and nearly not surviving it emotionally, I can not imagine the pain and grief these parents are feeling, and the anger, the all consuming anger, because there are people to blame for this, beyond the individual who pulled the trigger, whom I suspect was very, very disturbed, are those forces in this country that advocate for making it so very easy to bring this death to children...
The fear, pain, anger, grief, outrage, and sadness we are all feeling now needs to be focused on facilitating a change in our gun laws.... When you're done typing here on Metafilter, contact your representatives, your senators, your president, and then contact your friends, and ask them to do the same....posted by HuronBob at 3:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [112 favorites]
That it's a constitutional issue is strangely irrelevant in a lot of ways. While Heller won in the SCOTUS case, the majority opinion (written by J. SCALIA) was long and unexpectedly sympathetic to gun control interests. He basically spent a long time explaining that, yes, a total gun ban, in a federal district, is contrary to the 2nd Amendment, here's how you can constitutionally get effectively the same results.
So while Heller was seen as a loss for gun-control advocates, it actually opened the door for constitutionally allowing even very strict gun control, as long as it wasn't an outright "ban."posted by Navelgazer at 3:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Regardless of everything else, I hope Ryan Lanza sues the fuck out of CNN and Fox news for splashing his name and facebook picture across their everything.posted by Blasdelb at 3:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [32 favorites]
Good move.
I would love to see significantly more of this restraint in the news media honestly.
ESPN, my employer is headquartered in Bristol CT, about 30 minutes away, so this literally hits close to home for us. It was a shitty shitty day on campus.posted by butterstick at 3:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll post this here too, because I think it's a pointed look at the mental health side of things: The Insanity Defense. (This is a friend of mine who I link all the time because she says many smart things.)posted by restless_nomad at 3:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
I will not link to it because I am not totally clear on the self-linking policy (I hope that recapping someone's post is okay), but my husband (progressive/former soldier/gun enthusiast/law student with an academic interest in this topic) posted a thing to his blog that made me fall completely silent about all of this.
Basically he says: whenever something horrible like this school shooting happens, his fellow liberals get outraged and demand that we finally have a serious national conversation about gun control. And of course this is natural. But then he systematically debunks all the gun-control notions liberals come up with at these times (and these are all the things I myself come up with) as essentially beside the point. It's not that they're bad ideas, it's just that they wouldn't matter. Because there are just too many guns in America for any of these ideas to have any impact at all. There are 90 guns for every 100 Americans, and, well-maintained, a gun will last for many decades. It does not matter what you ban - "assault" rifles*, certain types of ammunition, purchases at gun shows, etc. - the sheer number of guns already out there in the wild means that it just won't make a dent. If a dude who's interested in shooting up a school, or a movie theater, or a temple, or his workplace wants a gun, he will absolutely, 100%, be able to get a gun.
So to reduce the amount of gun violence in the US, you would have to start from scratch. Round up all the guns. Make it completely illegal to own them. Then one by one, start letting people maybe re-register individual types of guns after a lengthy background process. Then maybe the ideas we always come up with ("Why is it legal for civilians to buy automatic weapons????"**) would have some impact. And how likely is that? We are prepared to go to war over raising taxes on the very richest Americans by a smidge. How likely is it that America will be able to agree that we have to round up all the guns and start over?
It is an informative, grimly logical train of thought. Every time I wanted to argue - "But but but! Why do we let people buy these huge 100-round magazines? Clearly that would help!" - his post would knock my idea down. ("No 100-round magazine, no problem, you just tape magazines together.") It makes me feel like we have painted ourselves into a corner we are never going to get out of without massive, massive overhauls of a type we are really unlikely to see.
Anyway. I am sad for the families and the community. I, too, drew an outsize measure of comfort from Fred Rogers today.
*He also points out that liberal civilians tend to not understand anything about guns, and think that "assault rifles", which are black and scary and look like a video game, are somehow functionally different than "hunting rifles", which have nice walnut stocks and look like an LL Bean catalog. I thought this until the exact moment I read that, so.
**I have said this so many times. I did not understand what I was saying. I know almost nothing about guns. I just know that I'm afraid of them.posted by thehmsbeagle at 3:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [45 favorites]
I'm so sad for the parents, the teachers, America.
The Ezra Klein link provides essential context for anyone offering a view about gun control etc. Public attitudes about stricter gun laws are not easy or clear cut. Events like this mostly seem to reinforce the views of both sides. Even though it seems obvious to many of us, any discussion on the issue needs about as much nuance as any politician can muster.
But fuck. Dead children. Tell me it's not worth it to try.posted by dry white toast at 3:50 PM on December 14, 2012
While Heller won in the SCOTUS case, the majority opinion (written by J. SCALIA) was long and unexpectedly sympathetic to gun control interests. He basically spent a long time explaining that, yes, a total gun ban, in a federal district, is contrary to the 2nd Amendment, here's how you can constitutionally get effectively the same results.
Did you not even read the article you linked to? What we're doing--discussing roots, culture, addressing the problems directly--is exactly the opposite of what the media is doing. We're wondering why this isn't being politicized more and why more action isn't being taken by the people in charge, while they're interested only in pictures and statistics. The media will complain about politics and present both sides as being equally complicit in What Went Wrong. Gun supporters will be given the same (if not more) time to express how they're an oppressed minority constantly under attack and how this is all the fault of Godlessness and moral decay.posted by zombieflanders at 3:53 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
The media were also told this initial information by police sources that requested anonymity, because they weren't authorized to comment on the case. So yes, the media aren't the only ones responsible for the wrong information, but they certainly didn't help matters by rushing ahead.posted by CancerMan at 3:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
thehmsbeaglewhile the Australian culture is a little different, we did it after Port Arthur.
And my husband, Army Officer, crack shot and very knowledgable about weapons including guns totally disagrees with much of what your husband says if you really want to play that game.posted by Megami at 3:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [16 favorites]
The weapons used in the Gabrielle Giffords shooting, the Sikh temple shooting, the Aurora movie theater shooting, and this one were all perfectly legal.posted by miyabo at 3:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [37 favorites]
*He also points out that liberal civilians tend to not understand anything about guns, and think that "assault rifles", which are black and scary and look like a video game, are somehow functionally different than "hunting rifles", which have nice walnut stocks and look like an LL Bean catalog. I thought this until the exact moment I read that, so.
They always say that, it doesn't matter how much the person they are talking with does actually understand guns. It's condescending and annoying stereotyping.
You can hunt without semi-auto, you can ban semi-auto hunting rifles if that is what you want to do.
I'm not entirely sympathetic to the idea gun bans/control can't work. (even as I'll scream it at the top of my lungs for drugs and alcohol) Fully auto weapons have been effectively banned and never seem to be used in these incidents. You could do the same with semi-auto if you think it's good policy, it would indeed take decades, but it can be done.
Many of these crimes are committed with already illegal weapons
I can't think of any where the guns were not easily available in gun stores. Maybe it was illegal for this guy to possess his mother's weapons if that is what happened, but take them away from his mother and now he has a much harder road.posted by Drinky Die at 3:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Thehmsbeagle, I am 100% on the opposite side as your husband -- I am virulently anti-gun in every way possible. But I agree with him. With the vast numbers of guns floating around this country, it's going to be impossible to have any kind of meaningful restriction on them with the piddly little laws that people always talk about when they're trying to be "reasonable".
And, of course, even the smallest, least effective gun control measure has no chance of passing anywhere. In fact, the opposite is the case; in most states, what few controls exist are being rolled back constantly. YESTERDAY, both Ohio and Wisconsin legislatures loosened their concealed-carry regulations.posted by Fnarf at 3:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
1. The Onion is an entertainment source that profits from pageviews. They are treating this event the exact same way that they would treat Mitt Romney slipping on a banana peel. Even CNN doesn't run ads on stories like this.
Time to hang this crap all over the NRA. I'm sorry but they use events like these and gang related shootings all the time to advocate for looser gun regulation. All while being propped up by a bloated gun industry.
This is what they want! They feed off of events like these to stoke paranoia to boost gun sales. It's not about self defense it is all about gun sales.
And then you have self centered VAIN has beens like Nugent who equate their entire self worth with how many guns they own speaking up about "freedoms" they don't even understand.
THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT this is exactly what they promote. Every time the NRA and ALEC push for easing gun regulation, and why the fuck does ALEC have a seat at the table in this anyways, THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.
Every illegal weapon was a legal weapon once, before it was stolen, or "borrowed", or driven across a state line. The legal gun trade supplies the illegal one.posted by Fnarf at 3:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [28 favorites]
What's fascinating to me is how there's apparently a constitutional right to own a handgun because somehow that falls into the 'arms' class that's constitutionally protected. Yet somehow a tactical cruise missile doesn't apply? Aren't arms arms?posted by mullingitover at 3:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
the sheer number of guns already out there in the wild means that it just won't make a dent.
While I get what he's going for, many of the large massacre-type shootings were not made with "Oh I just had this gun lying around and..." weapons but were done with guns specially procured for the events. Today's horrible instance seems to be an exception to that.
He also points out that liberal civilians tend to not understand anything about guns
I'm aware that Vermont is more like Canada than it is like the rest of the US but up here most people know a lot of things about guns no matter what their political persuasions are or whether they are gun owners. Guns are super legal up here (less so in Canada, but still legal) and the gun violence is very very minimal, so I just point out that it's not the legality per se that is at issue, it goes deeper than that into the culture. I'm really not in the mood to discuss ins and outs of this more than that, and I'm not against more legislation, just saying that it's complicated, and all too easy to parody the people on whatever the other side of your argument is.posted by jessamyn at 4:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
We make laws that are intended to have consequences over long time frames rather than short ones all the time.posted by Flunkie at 4:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
There are at least three elementary schools in Newtown, maybe four. Head-o-Meadow, Hawley and of course Sandy Hook are the ones I remember. I went to Head-o-Meadow when it was new. All of us ended up in the Newtown Middle School and Newtown High School. The high school is maybe five minutes away from Sandy Hook Elementary. You take a right out of it, after passing Bruce Jenner "stadium," and then another right after you go under the highway and you're pretty much there.
Its a red brick school will some trees and a brook behind it. I don't know that I'd put it on a postcard, but it looks like New England. I mean, if you saw it, you would say "Oh yeah, that looks like New England."
Newtown has three prominent landmarks that every kid knows about. The flagpole in the center of town - which is smack in the middle of Main Street, creating a safety hazard and a traffic obstacle. The rooster weather vane on the top of the meeting house. The bee weather vane on the top of The Newtown Bee building - a little red building that looks more like a shoe store than the home of a newspaper.
There are others, but those are the three that I think we all remember most. Silly small town stuff, but there you go.
In elementary school, at this time of year, we did pretty much what you probably did if you grew up in a place that has winter. We arrived at school all bundled up, left our wet boots and coats by our cubby holes, made snowflakes out of construction paper to decorate the classroom and wrote very important theme papers on our families or pets or favorite sports teams.
I'm 45 now. My nephews and nieces are 4, 8 and 10 and go to school in Bethel - one of Newtown's neighbors. They were on lockdown today. All of the local schools were on lockdown today. My mother volunteers at the Newtown library. She was on lockdown today. They told her only three people had been injured - because that's what everyone believed - and it wasn't until she got home and turned on the news that she - and everyone who'd been locked down - heard the news. She's inconsolable.
My brother drove a co-worker whose kid goes to Sandy Hook to the firehouse. The co-workers' child was ok, though there was a period of frantic time where he and his wife couldn't find their kid. All around them were other failies playing out similar scenes and awful, awful scenes.
You could walk right into any school in Newtown and go straight to the office or anywhere without anyone stopping you when I was growing up. Why would anyone need to stop you? My understanding is that security hasn't gotten much tighter since then. Why should it?
The Newtown Flagpole is, of course, at half mast today. I imagine it will be for a very long time. There are vigils and memorials. My fellow Newtown High alumni are posting an image of the town's Rooster weather vane with a black ribbon next to it on Facebook.
My town - my silly, sometimes backwords, beautiful, boring hometown - is going to be synonymous with unthinkable tragedy for a generation. Newtown has always been in my heart and it feels like that's where this tragedy took place. That's a little selfish of me, though, because I was lucky and didn't lose anyone today.
There are some things now that I'm starting to understand that I didn't understand before this morning. I don't know that I'm ready to write about those things yet, but I bet other people have - people who had similar things happen in their communities.
I hate that I'm living somewhere else right now. I want to go to that stupid, dangerous flagpole that everyone in Newtown knows and hold every person I see.posted by Joey Michaels at 4:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [128 favorites]
But then he systematically debunks all the gun-control notions liberals come up with at these times (and these are all the things I myself come up with) as essentially beside the point.
"Debunking" is refuting. If he says they're beside the point they haven't been debunked, they've been ignored. And really, this just seems like the Next Argument the right is using in their strategy to make sure that everyone can have all the guns forever. Fuck them, and fuck that.posted by JHarris at 4:01 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
thehmsbeagle: my retort would be that we are, in these recent, tragically numerous incidents, talking about madmen. Not generally people with a grand scheme.
Look at suicide data. People who are prevented through one method or another from killing themselves are hearteningly less likely to attempt it again. And these shootings are a particularly horrific form of suicide, have no doubt.
Just a smidge tougher access to assault rifles and the like is enough to curb a lot of this shit. Yes, the beltway snipers would have still found a way. And likely anything one did would have had Tim McVeigh and his cronies find a way to blow up a building full of innocents. But most incodents aren't like that.
A twenty-year-old wanted to kill his mother and so decided the best way to do so was to shoot up a kindergarten classroom. That doesn't happen without guns and access to them. Someone might say that he could have bombed the school, but that's difficult to pull off, involves knowledge and strategy and a lot more planning. NRA activists and the like often like to say that a determined murderer wouldn't need a gun, as if that means anything. No, a determined murderer wouldn't. Most murderers, I'm guessing, aren't determined.posted by Navelgazer at 4:01 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
Because there are just too many guns in America for any of these ideas to have any impact at all.
Waah public policy is hard and I can't possibly think of any other incentive-based approaches to getting people to hand over their guns voluntarily and if we can't solve it in the short term let's not bother doing anything at all PS herp derp liberal civilians I'm tots in teh army?
deterring tyrannical government;
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection;
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
participating in law enforcement;
enabling the people to organize a militia system.
You can't exactly defend yourself very effectively from, say, a government official with an automatic weapon if all you have is a single shot rifle.
That's not to say that what happened here today wasn't devastating, it was. And I completely agree with you. One of the issues with gun control is just how deeply embedded guns are in our society. It would be impossible to round up even a tiny fraction of them all, and you can bet that only a few would voluntarily give them up.
>So to reduce the amount of gun violence in the US, you would have to start from scratch. Round up all the guns. Make it completely illegal to own them.
This is a total straw man and a false dichotomy to boot.
Now I realise that the US will not allow itself to learn on this issue, but Australia's managed to put quite a dent in mass shooting stats with some sensible gun control legislation.posted by pompomtom at 4:06 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Perhaps American children should be armed. I figure if you are old enough to hold a doll, blocks, or a crayon, you have enough motor skills to wield a pistol. Effective arms control in the USA is a pipe dream. The Renoroc proposal involves arming everyone at all times, practically from cradle to grave. An armed society is a polite society, after all.
I wonder if it would be easier politically to limit coverage of these incidents and restrict the naming of killers and publishing if their photos over restricting access to guns.posted by humanfont at 4:07 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
I wonder if it would be easier politically to limit coverage of these incidents and restrict the naming of killers and publishing if their photos over restricting access to guns.
Security through obscurity is not a valid approach. Information stifling is not more effective or desirable than working towards fixing the actual problem via any of the myriad gun control solutions that pretty much every other first world country on the planet has figured out some time ago. You can't make the first amendment fight the second, that's just silly.posted by FatherDagon at 4:10 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
To put things in another way, the percentage of law-abiding gun enthusiasts who will be "determined" to hold onto their guns no matter what legal hoops or waiting periods that involves will be much greater than the percentage of potential killers who will wait and seek other means for mass destruction.posted by Navelgazer at 4:12 PM on December 14, 2012
Security through obscurity is not a valid approach.
It's not security so much as defusing the copycat effect, which is fairly well-proven. I find it reprehensible that the media take no responsibility for this, personally.posted by restless_nomad at 4:12 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
What's fascinating to me is how there's apparently a constitutional right to own a handgun because somehow that falls into the 'arms' class that's constitutionally protected. Yet somehow a tactical cruise missile doesn't apply? Aren't arms arms?
Not really. The spirit of the second amendment pertains to arms readily available and supplied by the individual soldier in a militia during callout. This would mean personal weapons that each soldier is expected to know how to use, maintain and be proficient in without special training. The kind of thing you are talking about is artillery and is supplied by the larger army organization. Handguns, Rifles, swords, axes and so on are what the members of a militia are supposed to have ready and a sufficient supply of ammunition for.
BTW the definition of militia (at the time of the writing) was every able bodied man of military age willing to serve to defend his community/nation when called. (the founders were actually pretty big on the idea of conscientiousness objector).
And Fuck, why the kids? I am a pretty pro gun guy but if there is some way to keep guns out of the hands of the crazy without denying them to the non crazy I am all for it. I just don't see it.posted by bartonlong at 4:13 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
You would probably need nukes to protect yourself from US tyranny.
This is true. I think that's a whole other discussion that could be brought up in the gun control debate. "Can we even defend ourselves from the government if it came to that with the weapons we have now, and if not, then why have them at all?" might be an interesting question to raise.posted by Malice at 4:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
The thing is, you can't just ignore the second amendment because you don't like the policy implications. You either have to repeal it or pass laws which are consistent with historical interpretations of the amendment.
But as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, the Supreme Court has indicated those laws can actually be quite broad depending on how they are worded. They just can't be a blanket ban.posted by Justinian at 4:15 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
The New Yorker's Adam Gopnik, after the Denver shooting
The reality is simple: every country struggles with madmen and ideologues with guns, and every country—Canada, Norway, Britain—has had a gun massacre once, or twice. Then people act to stop them, and they do—as over the past few years has happened in Australia. Only in America are gun massacres of this kind routine, expectable, and certain to continue.posted by lalex at 4:16 PM on December 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
"Can we even defend ourselves from the government if it came to that with the weapons we have now, and if not, then why have them at all?"
To cosplay someone who might be able to, as near as I can work out.posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on December 14, 2012 [35 favorites]
It would be impossible to round up even a tiny fraction of them all, and you can bet that only a few would voluntarily give them up.
i know that's right - the simple truth is much of america would rebel if we tried to get rid of the guns
but here's one positive thought - why couldn't we require firearms to have gps style locators in them - yes, people have the right to own guns, but WE (and our government) should have the right to know where they are and who they legally belong to
if a gun's stolen, it could be located
if it was used in a crime, we could know which gun was used and identify it and the owner
if it was brought into a place where it really doesn't belong at all, such as an elementary school, alarms could go off, warning everyone
To me, the Second Amendment is about as relevant as slavery. There are 20 pairs of parents who may have to wait days to recover the bodies of their children who were gunned down this morning.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:17 PM on December 14, 2012 [18 favorites]
I am in favor of much stricter gun control in the US. I am in favor of sweeping policy reform on health care access, including access to mental health care.
It is not clear if these crimes could have been prevented even if I got all my wishes, policy-wise. The suspect in this case appears to have used legally registered firearms; he seems to have been from a prosperous family, was still young enough to be covered by a parent's health insurance, and was near some of the country's top mental health treatment facilities.
More will come out in the days and weeks ahead, but making the assumption that he killed people because he didn't have access to mental health care on the basis that obviously he couldn't have had access to mental health care seeing as he killed people doesn't seem to help advance discussion.posted by Sidhedevil at 4:18 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
I fail to understand how people can misunderstand the purpose of the Second Amendment; it's the only Amendment that lists its purpose in the same sentence.
The 2nd dates from the period between the dissolution of the Continental Army and the establishment of the United States Army, when it was considered a serious possibility that the nation might be defended by regional militia. Essentially, it guarantees a right to take a weapon and serve the common defense of your community.
The establishment of a proper, centralized army, of course, made the point somewhat moot. Now, in its place, we have a historical dinosaur that people seem to believe guarantees their right to collect rifles and vaporize groundhogs.
I've been ruminating on school shootings lately because of Dec. 6th memorials for the Montreal Massacre, so when I heard this as a breaking news bulletin, it was like a punch in the gut. So many tiny children and their teachers. I actually said "Oh nooooooo" out loud as they reported the (then unconfirmed) numbers. Just overwhelmingly sad and heartbreaking. Perhaps it's a vain hope, but would that this kind of thing didn't happen anywhere, ever.
The thing is, you can't just ignore the second amendment because you don't like the policy implications. You either have to repeal it or pass laws which are consistent with historical interpretations of the amendment.
Then let's do it. Everybody who wants to do something should quit trying to be reasonable and talk about amending the Constitution to overturn the 2nd Amendment. Then maybe an actual compromise would be possible.posted by MCMikeNamara at 4:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
"gps style locators" - Confiscating them all would be easier.posted by Ardiril at 4:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't have kids but I can't stop crying every time I think of the Christmas trees in those homes, and the presents underneath that those parents will have to face. I imagine there may be single parents who feel like they have nothing left to live for anymore. What is more horrible than the pre-meditated murder of children as young as five? Nothing. Nothing.posted by Glinn at 4:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [23 favorites]
It's not security so much as defusing the copycat effect, which is fairly well-proven. I find it reprehensible that the media take no responsibility for this, personally.
It's when the shitbag leaves some kind of manifesto behind and they treat it like it might contain some kind of deep and meaningful message that pisses me off.posted by Artw at 4:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Can we even defend ourselves from the government if it came to that with the weapons we have now, and if not, then why have them at all?"
I'm also thinking along those lines. When the second amendment was written, how powerful were 'arms', and how powerful will 'arms' be in 20 years, 50 years, 100 years?
The second amendment references technology in a vague way ('arms'), and technology changes.posted by memebake at 4:20 PM on December 14, 2012
Flunkie, here is District of Columbia v. Heller. Here are the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence's resources on it.
I really wish I could go back in time and leave in a final paragraph in my above comment about how my husband is not Ron Swanson or someone who thinks we should all own lots of guns, but instead someone who occasionally likes to go target shooting (with a gun he rents from the range, because he does not own one and is unlikely to do so in the future).
Anyway, I tried to be clear that my husband was not saying "We should all have guns! Guns are awesome!" but instead was going through the way some people talk about gun violence and pointing out the reasons why, barring massive change, we are unlikely to see a significant drop in the amount of gun violence in this country. As one of the people who talks about gun violence in exactly those ways, I found it illuminating. (And I was not trying to be rude about gun-control arguments, because, again, I am that person. Those are my arguments.)
(He also concluded with a lengthy critique of pro-gun arguments, but I was trying not to post the longest comment in the world.)
For people arguing that Australia was able to move toward gun control and so I should stop "playing that game", I just- I don't understand what you thought I was writing? Do you think I am opposed to gun control? I am terrified of guns. I think they should all go away. I think my husband wishes most guns would go away.
But I still find value in attempting to understand why guns repeatedly do not go away, even after horrible events like this, and also in attempting to understand what a real solution would look like in American culture.posted by thehmsbeagle at 4:22 PM on December 14, 2012 [20 favorites]
My cousin had her first baby two days ago, but I didn't find out until just this morning when another cousin posted her happy "Look I'm a new auntie" picture on facebook. For a couple hours this morning I was a little miffed that no one in the family thought to tell me sooner.
Then I learned that the world was saving that news for me so I'd have something else to dwell on today instead. And oh, it has helped.posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:22 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
thehmsbeagle, you are allowed to self-link within a post if it contributes to the conversation.posted by Bunny Ultramod at 4:23 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
why couldn't we require firearms to have gps style locators in them
The government is already surveilling me enough to keep me safe, thanks.posted by Egg Shen at 4:24 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
There's pretty strict gun control in courthouses and government offices, isn't there? Public safety is more important in some places than others.posted by ceribus peribus at 4:25 PM on December 14, 2012
thehmsbeagle, if you say anything even remotely toward the idea that you or someone you know might not like the idea of a total gun ban you'll be faced with snarky comments like the one above. Don't take it to heart, it's just knee-jerk when someone's passionate about something to attack like that.posted by Malice at 4:26 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
The reality is simple: every country struggles with madmen and ideologues with guns, and every country—Canada, Norway, Britain—has had a gun massacre once, or twice. Then people act to stop them, and they do—as over the past few years has happened in Australia. Only in America are gun massacres of this kind routine, expectable, and certain to continue.
Someone on Facebook suggested the President should keep that speech in his pocket — he'll likely need it again before his second term is up.posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:26 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
I just- I don't understand what you thought I was writing? Do you think I am opposed to gun control?
I thought you considered that a reasonable argument against attempting to reduce the number of firearms in the community - which it is not.
You can't exactly defend yourself very effectively from, say, a government official with an automatic weapon if all you have is a single shot rifle.
I'm sympathetic to feeling threatened by the government, but the facts as far as I can see them are that if you're threatened by a LEO, soldier, or national security agent, your problem is not that you have a less powerful firearm. It is that you're now in a conflict with a well-funded, socially legitimized, state agency that has massively more manpower and funding than you do, unless you're with another state agency and/or a Bond villain.
Even if you have an automatic weapon, if you use it to successfully injure or kill a cop/soldier/agent, your problems are most likely to get bigger. Unless you are lucky plus connected or skilled in disappearing, you will either be captured, tried, and sent to prison, or you will be killed. And if you are those things, you've got better odds of getting out of whatever situation you've landed in OK *without* shooting somebody first.
Our law enforcement orgs, military, and national security apparatus are all big and powerful enough at this point that individual 2nd amendment rights don't and can't protect us. If anything does protect us from oppression on these fronts, it's (a) the commitment of individual members of these organizations to respecting civil/human rights and maybe to some degree (b) separation of military power into somewhat compartmental branches (I might believe a state guard organization could serve as a check on federal oppression in a pinch).
Individual 2nd amendment rights are really only good for defending against other ordinary citizens at this point.posted by weston at 4:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [35 favorites]
Thanks, Sidhedevil, but is there a summary of the specific question? That is, in what ways could a gun control law be formed such that it would satisfy Antonin Scalia as being constitutional? As opposed to a link to the opinion and a link to a bunch of stuff which may or may not be directly related to the question.
I don't mean to seem ungrateful for the links, and I hope I don't seem that way; I'm just hoping for a summary of the answer to that particular question.posted by Flunkie at 4:27 PM on December 14, 2012
Waah public policy is hard and I can't possibly think of any other incentive-based approaches to getting people to hand over their guns voluntarily and if we can't solve it in the short term let's not bother doing anything at all PS herp derp liberal civilians I'm tots in teh army?
Which I think falls in line with what I said.posted by Malice at 4:29 PM on December 14, 2012
'The Game' I was referring to was the 'my husband has military experience & knows about guns so he knows all about this'. Same as anecdata as far as I am concerned - doesn't actually add much to the point at all, easy to refute with a counter example. Which was my point. If you want to discuss your husband's arguments on this point, go ahead, and I am sure there could be merit in them. I just thought the implied 'he knows more about it than us civilians' framing was not adding to it.posted by Megami at 4:29 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
There are 90 guns for every 100 Americans
This is a bit of a straw man in terms of the practicality of controlling guns. While possibly numerically accurate, putting it this way makes it seem like 90% of the American population own guns. Which is not the case.
"A study published in the Injury Prevention Journal, based on a 2004 National Firearms Survey, found that 20% of the gun owners with the most firearms possessed about 65% of the nation's guns."
So controlling the existing supply of firearms does not mean having to keep track of virtually all Americans.posted by soundguy99 at 4:31 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
Flunkie, I don't know what Justinian and whoever else were referring to, so I can't tell you. The CSGV is in my opinion the best gun control advocacy organization in the US. Sorry you didn't find their resources helpful.posted by Sidhedevil at 4:32 PM on December 14, 2012
thehmsbeagle:
But I still find value in attempting to understand why guns repeatedly do not go away, even after horrible events like this, and also in attempting to understand what a real solution would look like in American culture.
Could it be that the reason is that no one in the position to do so is doing anything to make guns go away? Seems more plausible to me than mere speculation about the effects of possible policies.posted by simen at 4:32 PM on December 14, 2012
The whole "hunting rifles" this is sad to me because while there are hunting rifles that are like assault weapons, they are unnecessary and not used by all hunters. Scandinavia manages to still have hunting without having the type of weapons we have in the US. Living part-time in a rural area, I understand a lot of ruralites have been deceived and think that if we had gun laws like northern Europe's they would not be able to defend themselves from coyotes raiding their hen houses or wouldn't be able to hunt. I guess the NRA has done a good job scaring them.
But I agree with Mr. thehmsbeagle that the saturation of guns in this country lessens the impact of gun control. Where I live in Chicago is a perfect example. The gun laws here are very strict, but gun violence is endemic. People go outside the city to buy guns and bring them here.posted by melissam at 4:32 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
The government is already surveilling me enough to keep me safe, thanks.
fifthrider: "I fail to understand how people can misunderstand the purpose of the Second Amendment; it's the only Amendment that lists its purpose in the same sentence."
A gun aficionado once told me that the bit before the comma is a reason not to limit "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" and isn't the only reason or context in which it's true.
To be clear, I don't support that interpretation and I don't know if it's just what one guy thinks.posted by brundlefly at 4:33 PM on December 14, 2012
We're not going to have a rational conversation about any of this. Ever.
There is a very powerful voting bloc that has already decided that their hobby and their childish fantasy of standing down the 101st Airborne with an assault rifle is more important than the lives of those 18 children.
Think about that for a second. Like really let it sink in.
Beyond the semantics, beyond the obfuscation, beyond all the word games and constitutional conjuring it really is that simple: my hobby, and my underdog Red Dawn fantasy are more important and more worthy than those dead children's lives.
You dont even have to figure in any of our other many, many gun tragedies. And god knows we have enough to choose from this year alone.
So when people tell you they are against gun control, understand what they are really saying.posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:34 PM on December 14, 2012 [90 favorites]
What is weird to me is that all of the kids they are interviewing seem so completely calm. I watched an interview of a third grade girl earlier, and she was almost eerily serene throughout. Are these kids just in shock, or what?
Kids process these things differently. Oddly enough I think the interviewing might be empowering for them.
I AM concerned for the kindergardeners. How awful to associate school with such horror. Parents and teachers are going to have their hands full nationwide, I think.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:34 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
So beyond horrible. And yet I bet nothing changes in the States after this, not the way mental illness is treated, not the way guns are regulated, not the way media covers events. America has become the Titanic of countries, a political entity too cumbersome, too set in its ways, too much a victim of its own excesses to avoid danger or react to disaster in anything like a timely and wise fashion.
Oh, and like one of the posters above I too have noticed a troubling uptick in gunviolence the past month or so in Fayetteville. And I am not the only one who has noticed it.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:36 PM on December 14, 2012
Oh, FFS, Huckabee and all those like you. This horrifying tragedy did not occur because God was taken out of schools. It occurred because guns were taken into them.posted by ilana at 4:36 PM on December 14, 2012 [45 favorites]
This true but also the viewpoints about the 4th amendment, the first amendment and the fifth amendment are also irrevelant because the technology has changed?
I think not.
Given that there are automated systems reading all my E-mail and listening to all my phone calls, I think you're way off base here.posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:36 PM on December 14, 2012
I think much of the credit for calm children goes to the teachers who acted so quickly. It heartens me how many of them had the children leave the school with their eyes tightly closed.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
Oh, FFS, Huckabee and all those like you. This horrifying tragedy did not occur because God was taken out of schools. It occurred because guns were taken into them.
As I saw pointed elsewhere, other things that didn't exist before "God was taken out of schools": Desegregation, Bryan Fischer, Mike Huckabee.posted by zombieflanders at 4:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
We don't know whether the suspect was diagnosed with mental illness, if so what his diagnosis or diagnoses were, and what kind of treatment, if any, he was receiving. We don't know.posted by Sidhedevil at 4:41 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sidhedevil, I believe we do know for a fact that the shooter was mentally ill.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:42 PM on December 14, 2012
Show of hands: Who wrote to one of their Representatives or Senators today asking them to initiate a Constitutional gun control amendment?
This is the fourth time that I have re-posted this quote in the past five years. It is depressing:
"Amok is a Malay word for the homicidal sprees occasionally undertaken by lonely, Indochinese men who have suffered a loss of love, a loss of money, or a loss of face. The syndrome has been described in a culture even more remote from the West: the stone-age foragers of Papua New Guinea.
The amok man is patently out of his mind, an automaton oblivious to his surroundings and unreachable by appeals or threats. But his rampage is preceded by lengthy brooding over failure, and is carefully planned as a means of deliverance from an unbearable situation. The amok state is chillingly cognitive. It is triggered not by a stimulus, not by a tumor, not by a random spurt of brain chemicals, but by an idea. The idea is so standard that the following summary of the amok mind-set, composed in 1968 by a psychiatrist who had interviewed seven hospitalized amoks in Papua New Guinea, is an apt description of the the thoughts of mass murderers continents and decades away:
"I am not an important man... I possess only my personal sense of dignity. My life has been reduced to nothing by an intolerable insult. Therefore, I have nothing to lose except my life, which is nothing, so I trade my life for yours, as your life is favoured. The exchange is in my favour, so I shall not only kill you, but I shall kill many of you, and at the same time rehabilitate myself in the eyes of the group of which I am a member, even though I might be killed in the process."
The amok syndrome is an extreme instance of the puzzle of human emotions. Exotic at first glance, upon scrutiny they turn out to be universal; quintessentially irrational, they are tightly interwoven with abstract thought and have a cold logic of their own.
Ardiril, I did last time around (Aurora shooting) and the responses I got from my elected officials -- the ones who bothered to write back -- were utterly vacuous. I'm not going to bother this time.posted by Wordwoman at 4:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
roomthreeseventeen, even granting the "no mentally well person would have done this" argument, my point is that he may have been diagnosed and under treatment at the highest standards of care and still have committed this crime.
And I don't grant the "no mentally well person would have committed this crime" as someone who is living with mental illness. But that's an argument I'm not having in this thread at this time.posted by Sidhedevil at 4:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
for my imminent action to donate to the Brady Center and any other organization dedicated to helping make sure this cannot occur again.
Currently I am one of your constituents in New York, but I grew up in the state of Connecticut. As you can imagine, I was shocked and horrified to hear of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School this morning; I have long referred to Connecticut as a nearly idyllically safe place to grow up, and it is heartbreaking that these other children have lost the ability to make that claim.
Towards that end, I urge you to ensure that no other child in my home state will ever lose that right; I urge you to take action against the gun lobby in this country and tighten gun control. It's time to tell the gun lobby that the abuses of the 2nd Amendment they've been claiming are NOT more important than the lives of the 18 children who were lost.
Neither of my (liberal Democratic) Senators even has "gun control" on their list of approved contact topics. Neither does the President. Amendment? Most Americans oppose it, even when it's their own kids getting shot in the head. We love our guns too much. We love our guns more than we love our kids.
But yeah, I wrote all four today, and signed the petition.posted by Fnarf at 4:56 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
they wouldn't be surveilling you - they would be surveilling guns
By this reasoning, if the government mandated GPS trackers in shoes - and why not? shoes are used in violent crimes even more frequently than guns - they wouldn't be surveilling you; they would be surveilling your shoes.
But this is all moot. What difference would it have made to today's killings if a cop sitting at a monitor somewhere had been alerted by GPS tracker that a gun had been brought onto school property?posted by Egg Shen at 4:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Restless_nomad: This quote from Byron Hurt, which I still have not successfully sourced, sums it up:
"Until we stop telling boys that they can not cry, or show emotion, or that they have to be tough and powerful, and in control of people and things; and until we stop sending men the message that we cannot show vulnerability, or express our anger, sadness, disappointment, fear, and rage in healthy way, we will continue to see this kind of hypermasculine aggression, which perplexes only those who do not make the connection between masculinity, violence, and guns."
It's a good quote for a good amount of male culture, but does not really address the problem of psychopaths, and the ease at which they can obtain deadly weapons. For a psychopath, they would simply lack the ability to feel empathy. A lot of the quote above would not make much of a difference in their world...as they would simply absorb thoughts of violence from our media and other parts of culture and play it out like a video game or movie. There are tests for this sort of thing, but nothing that is generally accepted as a catch-all for all psychopaths, otherwise we would be using them in prisons all the time to determine whether someone was safe to return to society. The implications of using such tests for obtaining fire-arms is also a very likely debate, and not all psychopaths are driven to murder. But we've seen more and more, that with mass shootings, it's more often a factor (besides the guns) than not.
(Also we kind of went down this road with the Aurora shootings: Let's not loosely use the phrase "mentally ill" to describe mass murderers...sociopath or psychopath would be more direct. "Mental illness" is too broad in definition and is off-putting to those who have diagnosed mental illnesses much more benign, like eating disorders. I know that sounds silly and I realize it's not done with that intent of course....just wanted to mention it because I was called out before on it too...so more of a friendly PSA here)posted by samsara at 4:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
The argument that "there are too many guns, we can't control them now" is, as far as I'm concerned, not so much an argument as capitulation.
America is Popolac, from Clive Barker's short story In the Hills, the Cities. We have become the mad aggregate giant, and we are rampaging the hills in our grief and our madness. Eventually we will die of exhaustion, but at what price?posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
By this reasoning, if the government mandated GPS trackers in shoes - and why not? shoes are used in violent crimes even more frequently than guns - they wouldn't be surveilling you; they would be surveilling your shoes.
It's as if you know nothing of RFID.posted by Max Power at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2012
It would certainly be very gratifying to see the NRA reminded that they lost the election and told to STFU.posted by Artw at 5:01 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is how pot got legalized and same-sex marriages recognized. One state at a time.posted by Ardiril at 5:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
Why not? If I give my car keys to a drunk driver, that's negligent. Why the hell can't people who leave guns where mentally unstable people can get them be charged with negligent homicide?posted by snickerdoodle at 5:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
I AM concerned for the kindergardeners. How awful to associate school with such horror. Parents and teachers are going to have their hands full nationwide, I think.
A parent of an older (living) kid at the Newtown school was interviewed and said it was just a week ago that he had to have the conversation about the Oregon shooting and reassure his child that they'd be safe, that this wouldn't happen at their school, etc. I don't know what the hell he's going to say now.posted by FelliniBlank at 5:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Neither of my (liberal Democratic) Senators even has "gun control" on their list of approved contact topics.
Ah, but they most likely have "children". That's what I did with one of my senators.
Yeah, it literally turns you into one of those "think of the children" types, but this time it's used for good.posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:04 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
I lived in the CT suburbs all through high school. My family almost moved to Newtown, so this is a bit close to home. I also look at it from the point of view of being a teacher. I 've taught first year university students for many years now--not so different from high school really.
For several years, it was my responsibility to meet with the "bad students". These were kids who were not attending, failing class, being disruptive, bullying, etc. Or, teachers had identified potential self-harm or domestic violence. At first, I dreaded this new job, but soon found it was one of the most rewarding parts of work. Not a few of these kids were 18 year olds entering periods of depression or much more serious mental health problems. Convincing these kids to get from the classroom to a qualified counselor and/or psychiatrist was often the most productive thing I did all week. Seeing some of them get better and get back to class was amazing.
I never feared for my safety. Although I often feared for theirs. We had one student commit suicide on campus; probably others at home, but that was harder to verify. I could walk around campus with these students, meet them in a lounge or office, just talk with them and spend time. I could email with them and was never concerned that my home address would be easy for them to find as essentially public information. I never worried about myself because I live in Japan where guns are highly restricted. I don't think I would have been able to do that work in the States. The job of every teacher in the US just got that much harder.posted by Gotanda at 5:04 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Why the hell can't people who leave guns where mentally unstable people can get them be charged with negligent homicide?
I am opposed to an all out gun ban, but I agree with this. If you bought the gun, you're the one responsible for it.posted by Malice at 5:05 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy:Yeah I don't know if it is just bias confirmation but yesterday my husband and I noticed independently that here in Raleigh we seem to have seen a spike in the number of firearm murders just in the last couple of weeks. A mom and two kids. A husband and wife. An Indian restaurant owner. A young man. On and on. Nothing ties them together, just guns and death.
It's so hard for me to deal with the gun true believers even outside horrible events like these, but I cannot freaking speak to them in the midst. I just want for once, when someone like this happens, for a bunch of people to not immediately squirm out of the woodwork in the defense of the proliferation of guns. It's like, that's the first thing they give a shit about.
If you ask the world, "HOW does this happen, how can we prevent this from happening so damned often?", people respond, "The shooters were rogue crazy people who were total aberrations! Never mind how often this kind of thing happens, they're all rare deviant lunatics and that's that, totally unpredictable, no need to think about it any harder. Yay for free access to guns, fuck access to affordable and useful mental health care!"
(Keep in mind that the fact that someone theoretically has the ability to obtain mental health care, does not mean they will, due to the shame and stigma and the godawful experiences you go through in mental health care until you find a therapist or psychiatrist who's not a fuck-up. IF you find them. IF you hold out that long. Also keep in mind that "crazy" is just a lazy label to put on a complex situation, and that you don't have to be mentally ill to go on a shooting spree.)
I don't know why we're so uninterested, as a nation, in doing anything of consequence to stop this shit. We're interested in reciting sad words like "tragedy", "condolences", "unbelievable", etc, and then moving on to the next reason to mouth platitudes. I'm an idiot and have only the foggiest ideas of what should be done, but the fact that so few people appear interested makes me want to go to bed and not get back out.posted by Coatlicue at 5:05 PM on December 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
HuronBob, I am so sorry to hear about your loss -- thank you for sharing your experience. And also your call to action.posted by madamjujujive at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ah, but they most likely have "children".
Ah, good thinking. I went with "Terrorism". This is terrorism, and the gun lobby is doing the real heavy lifting for the terrorists. I know I'm terrified. Until today I had never heard of Newtown, Connecticut, which tells me that tomorrow it could be right next door. With 250 million guns to go around, it's not like there's anything stopping anybody.posted by Fnarf at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
What difference would it have made to today's killings if a cop sitting at a monitor somewhere had been alerted by GPS tracker that a gun had been brought onto school property?
you forget that i had already proposed that an alarm would be set off - and by that, i mean something just like a fire alarm that could be heard by everyone
i'm not aware of shoe killings being a national problem
you should pay better attention to what i say and try not to be so disingenuous if you want to continue this conversation with meposted by pyramid termite at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Seeing as the person who bought the guns in this case (as far as we know to date) was killed with one of her own guns, I don't see the relevance of penalties in other hypothetical cases?posted by Sidhedevil at 5:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is just making me so sad. I think of parents who have Christmas gifts hidden on a high shelf for a child who believesd in Santa, or who have 2 more nights' of Hannukkah gifts for a child who has been killed by someone who watches too much tv, has guns, and is mentally ill. The American love affair with guns and violence isn't uncommon, we export our violent movies worldwide to eager audiences. I believe there's ample evidence that seeing the news of mass killings makes more mass killings more likely. Much as I think we have far too many guns, a culture of disrespect, a culture that tolerates violence, we have little in the way of resources for the mentally ill, and we've let our sense of community be fractured. The answer is for Americans to choose to create community, and stop letting entertainment producers create our value systems. And mental health care, and common decency.
I can just barely begin to imagine the pain of these families; this is nightmare stuff. Parents fear car accidents, cancer, and other horrors, but I never thought to fear that my child would be gunned down at school. Every loss diminishes us, but this is loss and pain on an enormous scale.
I'm not a believer, but the only thing I can imagine doing right now is praying.posted by theora55 at 5:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
"A study published in the Injury Prevention Journal, based on a 2004 National Firearms Survey, found that 20% of the gun owners with the most firearms possessed about 65% of the nation's guns."
I was suprised to note over Thanksgiving that my cousin had gotten a man-sized safe in which to keep his guns in. I refrained from making Dick Cheney jokes.posted by JHarris at 5:16 PM on December 14, 2012
Mental illness does not de facto make you violent. You do not have to be mentally ill to kill others.
Can we please fucking stop with this assumption. Lots of people dealing with their mental illness and not being violent would certainly appreciate it.posted by emjaybee at 5:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [48 favorites]
Thanks, ColdChef. Brave ladies. Ms. Hochsprung's Twitter was linked in a bunch of places, and it made me cry. She did her best to protect those children.posted by Sidhedevil at 5:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
We need to reframe gun control as gun accountability. I don't want to ban guns, but I do want gun owners to take some damn responsibility for the damage they cause. I want them to think twice before leaving it in the nightstand drawer or loaded. I want background checks and psych evals. I want owning a gun to be a Big Deal, and one that requires some hoop-jumping and financial outlay. I want people to think twice about the cost and where they will store it and how they will keep it out of the wrong hands. There needs to be civil and criminal penalties up and down the chain -- from the manufacturer to the dealer to the buyer.posted by snickerdoodle at 5:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [29 favorites]
The American love affair with guns and violence isn't uncommon, we export our violent movies worldwide to eager audiences.
I don't think violence in movies is the cause of the problem.
I heard just a few minutes ago that a local elementary school is planning on putting card-activated door locks on classroom doors in the near future. This is in Brunswick, GA, which is like one step above rural.
Neither of my (liberal Democratic) Senators even has "gun control" on their list of approved contact topics. Neither does the President.
APPROVED CONTACT TOPICS?!posted by JHarris at 5:21 PM on December 14, 2012
Has anyone actually said that anyone who is mentally ill is necessarily violent? I've seen people say things that I've interpreted to mean that carrying out a murder like this implies mental illness, but that's a totally different thing.
A implies B does not mean that B implies A, and I seriously doubt that anyone who said that this particular A implies this particular B additionally meant that this particular B implies this particular A.posted by Flunkie at 5:23 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mental illness does not de facto make you violent. You do not have to be mentally ill to kill others.
and it is also true that being in treatment for mental health issues does not necessarily make you non-violent. I desperately want to see better funding for mental health care, but I doubt it is the answer.posted by Wordwoman at 5:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
snickerdoodle, I agree with everything you've said, and yet none of that seems like it would have stopped this from happening.posted by Sidhedevil at 5:26 PM on December 14, 2012
We do need a more international perspective. Frequent mass killing is a relatively solved problem in many places comparable enough to the US.
My friend posted:
there is no reasonable way for us to regulate the fragile and often unpredictable mechanism that is the mind. What we can do is limit the weaponry that people have access to.
I want us to have much better mental health services, because that's a very good thing. But I am under no illusion that having access to those services can prevent this sort of thing. They are typically voluntary-participation. They are not universally effective. And even they cannot control people's actions - not with talk, not with drugs. Mental health care is a basic necessity that we should certanily have. But it is not enough.
We gotta wise up. No, it won't be easy. But because we have no stomach for the difficult discussion, we tolerate the situation. And because we tolerate it, we are complicit.
So my Facebook friend the gun enthusiast just posted a link where some idiotic pundit posits that movie violence and reporting is a prime cause for these sorts of shootings. No mention of the ready availability of assault weapons etc etc.
So suggest tweaking the First Amendment, but geez, we had better refrain from discussing the Second Amendment - not even relevant, people!
As Kurt Vonnegut said:
"I have never seen a more sublime demonstration of the totalitarian mind, a mind which might be likened to a system of gears whose teeth had been filed off at random. Such a snaggle-toothed thought machine, driven by a standard or even by a substandard libido, whirls with the jerky, noisy, gaudy, pointlessness of a cuckoo clock in Hell."posted by KokuRyu at 5:36 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
There are already a good number of public figures and organizations today (nevermind internet commentors like us) who have made it publicly known that they don't seem to notice or care about the first three words.
You know, I've never heard an argument that makes sense to me for why the second part of that sentence isn't dependent upon the first part.
Thinking about it, I'd be perfectly okay with tying that whole sentence together instead of ignoring the first bit - if someone wants to own something other than a rifle or shotgun suited to hunting, and they pass whatever legal checks are in place to own it, they must become a member of a well regulated militia, as in: you're in a special "citizen militia" tier of the Army Reserve now and must qualify with your weapon every year, and you can be drummed out for anything a regular service member can be, forfeiting your right to own those special weapons. You can also be called to action in times of domestic emergency, etc, as a militia would.posted by jason_steakums at 5:37 PM on December 14, 2012 [25 favorites]
I have a number of mentally ill relatives, and I teach a number of mentally ill children. None of them kills people.posted by Peach at 5:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
this is nightmare stuff
It is. Oddly enough, I felt compelled to pick up my 2nd grader from school today about the same time this all happened. We'd had a rough morning and I was feeling bad about it. I didn't see the news until later. I'll take a battle before school every morning over what the families of these children are having to endure.posted by PuppyCat at 5:39 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thinking about it, I'd be perfectly okay with tying that whole sentence together instead of ignoring the first bit
As I've said before; if you can conveniently interpret one of the amendments to come out with your preferred policy solution, someone else can conveniently interpret a different amendment (such as the 1st, 4th, or 14th) to come out with their preferred policy solutions. And they might not have your restraint and good intention.posted by Justinian at 5:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yes, that was also a strong argument against Civil Rights, if I've read my history textbooks correctly. Nobody wants massive change! Could also work against abolition and women's suffrage and gay marriage.posted by jacalata at 5:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
i'm not aware of shoe killings being a national problem.
That is changing the subject.
You have not countered my point that surveilling someone's possessions is tantamount to surveilling them. You have only argued - as best I can tell - that guns are so dangerous that we should tolerate being surveilled to be kept safe from them.
I've heard the same arguments about terrorists. And despite the fact that I'm (slightly) more at risk from a mass shooting than I am from a terrorist attack, I'm still not interested.posted by Egg Shen at 5:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
APPROVED CONTACT TOPICS?!
JHarris, to give some credit to our congresscritters, I think this is more a matter of "making it easier for their staff to sort emails." Most times I've written to mine, they have a list of "Subject Topics" you can pick from which are usually related to pending bills or the ConressCritter's pet projects or of particular relevance to their constituents (i.e. "Jobs" here in Ohio.)
I think there's usually an "Other" option, or you can use a creative interpretation ala EmpressCallipygos.posted by soundguy99 at 5:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
snickerdoodle, I agree with everything you've said, and yet none of that seems like it would have stopped this from happening.
The shooter was too young to legally carry a gun. Someone put guns in a place where he could get to them. It sounds like that someone was his mother.
I'm from rural Michigan. I grew up eating hunted meat, and have done target practice. I am not anti-gun. I actually think shooting inanimate objects is kind of cool.
But I've also gone to parties where a proud gun-owner took a gun off a wall and handed it over to me with complete nonchalance. That is batshit insane.
Every gun should be treated as a weapon. There should be standards on gun storage and handling. Want a gun? Fine. Here is what you have to do to get one. Here's how you have to store it. Here are gun safety standards that have to be followed. And if you are found to be careless with your weapon, you lose your gun license and get your guns taken away. If you are negligent, you can go to jail.
This isn't just about mass shootings. It's also about the stolen guns that wind up hitting innocent bystanders, and accidental deaths, and the idea that gun ownership isn't just a right -- it's a huge responsibility, and not one that every single person is equipped to handle.posted by snickerdoodle at 5:48 PM on December 14, 2012 [40 favorites]
Yeah, I'm not sure why I have to get my driving license renewed every X many years, get my vision checked, take the test, etc. but you don't have to have gun license refreshers.posted by FelliniBlank at 5:54 PM on December 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
Sure, I'm all for stricter gun control. But there will be a civil war if you ban guns. That is not hyperbole.
I just really wish we could talk more about how difficult it is to get mental health in this country. Even severe and physically painful mental conditions take months to treat because it usually takes months to see a psychiatrist, who may or may not actually give a shit about you for your $50 per hour (with insurance).
The availability of guns is a problem, but for fucks sake if this "change" the president mentioned in his speech doesn't focus on revamping our mental health care system and treating like an actually illness rather than a bitchy annoyance stemming from hypochondriacs, we would prevent a hell of a lot of these shootings.
Words seem vain but necessary. It is impossible for me to understand what happened today. It is unreal. I felt nothing except bewilderment and a toxic resignation. Lying in bed I had to think about even how to think about this, and for a moment my thoughts were with the killer. How he must have imagined the reporting on his deed. "They will not understand," he must have thought. He must have fantasized about the confusion, the wantonness, the strange elation of surrendering to compulsion. The brand names of the weaponry, with their weird aura of cool ("Glock"), his bulletproof vest, the flailing attempts to establish a rickety framework of understanding... Better to be a cipher, a mysterious agent of darkness, than a nobody, better to replace the stories of humiliation and rejection and failure by a mindless river of blood. The reporters and news crews, bless they hearts, but their familiar faces and finely honed formats can't contain the reality of this event. Thank you, Joey Michaels, HuronBob. It took your words, the remembered detail, the grit of memory and conscience, to make this real for me.posted by deo rei at 5:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
FelliniBlank...you do have to take gun "refreshers" about every five years in my state.posted by WhitenoisE at 5:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why the fuck did a kindergarten teacher own two semiauto 9s? And why did her mentally ill son have access to them?
I hunt, shoot, enjoy guns and hang out in gun-owning rural communities on a regular basis. I've also lost two people I cared about to gun violence in the last few years. I favor radical new restrictions.
I also think its time to restrict the romanticization of guns on tv and in movies. Come on fucking Hollywood, stop equating having a big gun with having a big dick.posted by spitbull at 6:01 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
You do realize the the right is screaming about how this wouldn't have happened if teachers had been armed?posted by telstar at 6:05 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
Fucking guns have been fetish-ised in American culture to point that they have become, to many, nearly religious symbols of self-reliance, freedom, virility, patriotism and personal power. The result is that any impetus towards gun control will inevitably be subject to arguments that are emotional, partisan, dogmatic and damn near impossible to resolve rationally. But if today's horrific events aren't enough to justify the effort to seek a resolution, I shudder to think what it will take.posted by islander at 6:05 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
But also, I've watched people I love lose a child to gun violence, and the pain is excruciating even to watch powerless to console. I'm not saying its not time to talk politics, but we need to see this specific crime for itself too.
I've stood at the fresh grave of a child I knew well with her parents, whom I love, who was shot dead by a jealous boyfriend. If you haven't, you cannot imagine how much it hurts.posted by spitbull at 6:06 PM on December 14, 2012
snickerdoodle, we don't know if the late Ms. Lanza kept her guns in a gun safe. Maybe she did. Her son killed her. Maybe she left the guns lying around. Maybe she locked them up. We don't know.
Gun safes are important. Gun safety is important. Gun safety training is important. None of that may have been able to help here.
One of the guns the suspect is reported to have taken from the mother was a deer rifle. This was not a gun he is reported to have used, but it suggests that even a total handgun ban wouldn't have stopped this tragedy.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:06 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
If 30,000 people would be killed by bombs annually if we had reasonable gun control, I wold consider a Timothy McVeigh argument today.posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
As I write this, I am beside myself with grief and sorrow, as well as shock and disbelief over today's events.
I feel thin-skinned and hollow, trying together with my wife unsuccessfully to parse what happened and all the while thinking about our son who is the same age as the children who were killed this morning. While we delight in his innocence, we're struck by how completely unprepared these children were to understand what was happening, to react to the assault, to defend themselves.
We think about last week's tour of our local elementary school, in a neighboring Connecticut town, and our deliberations about which kindergarten he will attend next year. I can see the darkened classroom we visited filled with children, and imagine how it might have tragically unfolded.
We think about our close friends, residents of Newtown, whose daughter is a friend of our son. They had asked the Sandy Hook school if she could attend this year, even if she just missed the cutoff for kindergarten. Had the school not refused, she would have been in the classroom today.
We think about the chain of children holding each other's hands, eyes squeezed tight as they struggled to leave the building, and the memories that will haunt them.
We think about my former colleague and his wife who lost their only daughter this morning to a senseless act of violence. A little girl now collateral damage in a struggle that really didn't concern her. Her Christmas presents tucked away in a closet, her toys strewn throughout the house, her laundry waiting in a hamper. How will they manage to get out of bed tomorrow morning?
The gun control debate is important stuff, and I've been inspired by all of you to donate to www.bradycampaign.org today. Still, I can't stop thinking about the wide community of people who will live with this for the rest of their lives.
You do realize the the right is screaming about how this wouldn't have happened if teachers had been armed?
posted by telstar
Most people would not be psychologically capable of acting rationally with a firearm in self defense against an aggressive armed assailant. They think they would because it looks so easy on tv. Armed teachers is just a recipe for more carnage.
I know, how about we send kids to school in body armor? That should do the fucking trick.
One of the guns the suspect is reported to have taken from the mother was a deer rifle.
Sidhedevil, where are you seeing this? So far all I've seen or heard about a rifle is a Bushmaster .223, which I'd hardly call a "deer rifle" - it's a civilian version of the military's M-16.posted by soundguy99 at 6:13 PM on December 14, 2012
We don't know that the son had "access" to his mother's guns. He may well have attacked her with something else, taken the guns by force, then shot her (presuming the reports describing the crime scene at the home to date are accurate).
I seriously don't see where this argument is going given the limited information we have. If what people are arguing is that public policy should be that no guns can be allowed in a home where anyone diagnosed with a mental illness (which we don't even know the suspect had been at this point) resides, that's going to be a hard battle to fight.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:13 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Aside from the event itself, the thing that upsets me most about these shootings is the inevitable response from some NRA rep or supporter that it could have been prevented if someone else present had been packing.
I can't concisely explain why this upsets me so much, but it has the feeling of a reductio ad absurdum, "the solution to guns is more guns". It's never fewer guns, always more guns.
Personally, I don't think we need to get rid of all guns, so much as we need to stop loving them so much.posted by hwestiii at 6:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
I know people who use the Bushmaster for hunting deer. And moose, but I don't suppose they get moose in Connecticut.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
An argument that I thought was settled since about the dawn of the Meiji Restoration.
Having seen a number of don't blame the tool, blame the person arguments (as if blaming the tool is actually what is happening, which isn't) I was reminded of this little chat between Lee and Braithwaite in Enter the Dragon.posted by juiceCake at 6:14 PM on December 14, 2012
You do realize the the right is screaming about how this wouldn't have happened if teachers had been armed?
posted by telstar at 6:05 PM on December 14
I have a friend who moderates comments for one of the biggest news sites on the planet and she has been seeing a lot of people ranting about idea of arming teachers. It's a real thing.posted by something something at 6:18 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
So my favourite bit of Second Amendment trivia is that a draft version included a right to conscientious objection. It was dropped, on the grounds that, in the absence of a standing army, conscription was absurd, so surely one didn't need a right to object. (That such a right was even considered probably speakers to how much larger a percentage of the population Quakers were at the time.) That ablative absolute at the beginning? It's all about not having a freaking army. Funnily enough, the situation has changed a wee bit since then. It's really not relevant what the people who wrote the Second Amendment were thinking, particularly because they were operating from a totally different set of assumptions.posted by hoyland at 6:18 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Earlier today a news anchor commented "this has become the worst elementary school shooting in history".
And I thought to myself my god, I live in a country where elementary school shootings can be ranked.posted by Conductor71 at 6:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [57 favorites]
I know people who use the Bushmaster for hunting deer.
Well, people fish with dynamite, too, but I would say it's disingenuous to call a stick of dynamite "my fishing rod."
The majority of people with mental illness are in need of people to talk to who aren't frightened by the way their mental illness presents.
So linking up mental illness with rampage murder is exactly the kind of thing which increases that isolation by implying that any behaviour you don't understand might be a precursor to a murder rampage. As far as I can tell, violent nihilism is the strongest predictor of this kind of crime.posted by ambrosen at 6:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
If people want to read about public figures responding to this with calls to arm teachers, you can do so here and here and here.
My own opinion is that it's so far from what's needed as to be ludicrous, but it is absolutely being called for in all seriousness.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:25 PM on December 14, 2012
You have not countered my point that surveilling someone's possessions is tantamount to surveilling them.
such as putting a license plate on a car so it and its owner can be identified by the police?
such as superfast license plate readers that can read hundreds of plates in a minute?
such as traffic cameras at every light and cameras at many businesses?
you're already being surveilled plenty these days
You have only argued - as best I can tell - that guns are so dangerous that we should tolerate being surveilled to be kept safe from them.
no, i'm arguing that if you own a gun we should have the right to know where it is, especially when it's in public - this is something that is already done with gun registration - the government knows what guns you have and where you live - i'm merely proposing better technology and broader access to that knowledge
soundguy99, the people I know who hunt deer with a Bushmaster 223 aren't the kind of people who fish with dynamite. If anything, the .223 is underpowered to hunt deer, but a lot of short, slight people use it because it has less recoil than a .450.
My point was that Ms. Lanza needed a permit to buy the Glock and the Sig Sauer, but likely not to buy the Bushmaster under CT gun laws.<posted by Sidhedevil at 6:27 PM on December 14, 2012
America has a Violent Culture problem not a lack of gun control problem.
This is simply factually incorrect. Human nature is the same everywhere and a tendency to violence is part of that. But countries with greater access to firearms people who are having that violent moment are able to inflict far, far more and greater damage. This is clearly reflected in higher violent crime and murder rates in these countries.posted by flug at 6:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
I work at a school, and work with kids from age 2 to 11. When I went to work, all I knew was that there was a school shooting, and a couple of adults were feared dead. I checked the news during the day, and especially after a text from my husband indicating that the death toll was 20 (at the time).
I was numb, and shaking, and only not crying because I needed to be around the kids. Every one of my kids willing to be hugged got many many hugs today.
Two 1st graders were playing with Legos, and building ships, and saying things like "Bang! Gotcha! I killed you!" and we told them "No guns, no shooting, no killing." Some of my afterschool program kids (one 5, one 3.5) were playing a game with a bad guy that they kept killing. The 3.5 year old would say "We killed him, he's dead." I said "How else could you stop him? Could you talk to him?" They said "No, he doesn't understand us." I told them "Well, we could hug him, that doesn't have words." I suggested they change him into a good guy. They tried that, but changed him back. I didn't tell them to stop playing, but I offered other suggestions. How do we do a better job of teaching non-violence, of peaceful solutions?
There's going to be a lot of squirmy kids tonight, wondering why their parents are hugging them so hard.
I don't even know if I'm making sense, I've got no comprehension of this shooting, I can't imagine what makes somebody walk into a classroom of 5 year olds and start shooting.posted by booksherpa at 6:28 PM on December 14, 2012 [27 favorites]
Every gun should be treated as a weapon. There should be standards on gun storage and handling. Want a gun? Fine. Here is what you have to do to get one. Here's how you have to store it. Here are gun safety standards that have to be followed.
This is not what most people would think of when you say "deer rifle."
Peoples mental image of a hunting rifle is not really relevant. One Bushmaster .223 for instance is explicitly marketed as the "Bushmaster Varminter" for varmint hunting.posted by Jahaza at 6:30 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
You have to admit the mother would probably have been one of the first teachers to be carrying a gun. Now, whether she would've been able or even willing to shoot her own son before he shot her... more than highly unlikely.
Also, about shooters doing it to become famous. This one in particular killed himself before the police arrived, let alone the media. He was wearing a bullet-proof vest and he killed himself. We have no idea what was motivating him, but it is likely to be something you could never pass a law to deter (the motive that is... the means is another issue).posted by oneswellfoop at 6:31 PM on December 14, 2012
I mean, I'm sure any kind of American disarmament program would focus firstly on private security companies and mercenaries, though, so there's really no need to worryposted by This, of course, alludes to you at 6:33 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Many people rely on hunting for a significant part of their food, even today.
How many people are actually subsistence hunting? There are certainly some, but how many of them are not in Alaska? And is it really inconceivable that gun ownership could be severely curtailed while still allowing subsistence hunting?posted by hoyland at 6:34 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
When the wife and I went to our new doctor today the receptionist was perky and cheerful. That was until she got a phone call from relatives about the shooting. It seems that her niece and nephew go to that school. They were okay, but she was in shock thinking about the whole incident. As were we. My heart goes out to all the people involved. I can't help but think how that phone call could have been so much worse.
oneswellfoop: "You have to admit the mother would probably have been one of the first teachers to be carrying a gun."
I don't actually think we can assert that with any degree of confidence, at all.posted by Superplin at 6:35 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ignoring whether or not someone should use a Bushmaster for hunting, I can't wrap my head around why someone would choose one - I haven't hunted since my early teens and I could care less about the hunting anymore, but I can still rattle off a list of guns much better suited to it and much cheaper. And it just so happens that most are bolt action, so a hell of a lot less effective at causing the same kind of carnage in active shooter situations.posted by jason_steakums at 6:39 PM on December 14, 2012
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
Actually "Create extremely strict controls on and strictly limit ownership of hugely dangerous things that can be stolen or mis-used resulting in massive harm to numerous innocent people" is a pretty good foundation for rational public policy.posted by flug at 6:39 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Just saying that if ANY kindergarten teachers would be bringing guns to their schools, it'd be those who already owned more than one.posted by oneswellfoop at 6:39 PM on December 14, 2012
Do you know what varmint hunting is? There's a reason they use semi-automatics.posted by Jahaza at 6:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
oneswellfoop: you're either being really intellectually dishonest about your original assertion or you don't know what "probably" means.posted by absalom at 6:41 PM on December 14, 2012
It does not matter what you ban - "assault" rifles*, certain types of ammunition, purchases at gun shows, etc. - the sheer number of guns already out there in the wild means that it just won't make a dent.
That's the most ridiculously defeatist line of bullshit I've ever heard.
The number of guns in America is finite. There's a really, really, really easy way to keep it that way: Just stop adding more guns.posted by Sys Rq at 6:41 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
But just powerful enough to hunt children, and you can buy one without a permit. Incredible.posted by robcorr at 6:42 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
hoyland, in my high school in rural Massachusetts, more than half of the people I knew ate mostly deer meat in the winter. Just a little more than an hour from Boston.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:43 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm from Canada where our gun culture is almost non-existent, so I honestly don't understand the reasons why any mention of gun control in America is instantly shut down as "wrong". I've heard some of the arguments for guns, but they all seem really weak when you consider incidents like this. I don't really get the "self-defense" argument because even if someone did break into your house, shooting them seems too excessive to be "self-defense", and if they didn't have a gun, you wouldn't be in as much danger either. I don't get the hunting argument either, because just because one can get guns for recreation doesn't mean that you need to have such lenient controls on guns (such as in Canada). I sort of get the "right to bear arms" argument, but the constitution is being amended and argued over all the time, so tradition barely seems like a proper reason why.
So my honest question is (and I would really appreciate it if someone could answer me honestly, even though I know it's stupid), why is there so much resistance to not even greater regulatory controls over guns in America, but the mere discussion of greater regulatory controls? I don't want to just automatically chalk it all up to "well republicans are stupid", because I know there has to be some underlying reason for them to have such horribly strong opposition. So what is the driving motivation?posted by Conspire at 6:43 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
How many people are actually subsistence hunting? There are certainly some, but how many of them are not in Alaska? And is it really inconceivable that gun ownership could be severely curtailed while still allowing subsistence hunting?
No, it's not, as I've noted, Sweden and Norway still have hunting and have fairly strict gun laws. I would note that hunting there is serious business, you need to take a 30-40 hour class (to contrast I took a 3 hour class for mine) and pass a test. Through that process you may obtain a specific hunting rifle.
Unfortunately it was true that Breivik had managed to get gun through a hunting license. But he was very very determined. Imagine how many disturbed people jumping through all those hoops must filter out? Sure, one got through, but still leaving Norway with a tiny amount of gun crime per capita.posted by melissam at 6:43 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Cash4Lead: "Can we agree, at least, that guns should be regulated as much as fertilizer? Is that too much to ask?"
And bullets should be as hard (or harder) to get than pseudoephedrine.posted by tonycpsu at 6:44 PM on December 14, 2012 [24 favorites]
Well, actually it is. If you ask people "do you oppose gubmint bans on hunting rifles" you get a particular response. I'd bet you get a different response if you showed them some examples of the weapons that are covered by that innocuous-sounding term.posted by robcorr at 6:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
I know, how about we send kids to school in body armor? That should do the fucking trick.
Do you know what varmint hunting is? There's a reason they use semi-automatics.
I know it, and I've done it, for farm pest control purposes - and the reason is nothing more than simple convenience and plenty of wishful thinking: if you're faced with enough pest animals that you need that much speed and magazine capacity... you're still not going to get a lot of them, because they'll scatter before you can.posted by jason_steakums at 6:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
My point was that Ms. Lanza needed a permit to buy the Glock and the Sig Sauer, but likely not to buy the Bushmaster under CT gun laws.
Ok, fair enough.
Peoples mental image of a hunting rifle is not really relevant.
Sure it is. If most people's mental image of "hunting rifle" is a bolt-action with a 4-round capacity, of course then most people could be have been convinced that all "hunting rifles" are (relatively) harmless and should be readily available & unlicensed.
When that "hunting rifle" or "Varminter" can, to quote the review you linked to, "accept any AR-15 type magazine, including my personal favorite: the 20 round military magazine" - yeah, that changes the terms of the debate, and not in favor of the NRA.
Conspire, my sense has always been that most objections to gun control are a combination of toxic machismo, and anti-government paranoia. I personally don't think there is any correct, reasoned opposition to gun control (leading with my chin here, I know), but that it is almost entirely emotionally driven. That is with respect to "gun control", mind you, not "gun prohibition"posted by hwestiii at 6:48 PM on December 14, 2012
"probably" was likely a bad word to use, considering I would assume the total number of concealed-weapon-carrying teachers would be VERY low if they ever were encouraged to do so, making the whole scenario unlikely, but if anyone would, it would be most likely those who were already gun owners.posted by oneswellfoop at 6:48 PM on December 14, 2012
Well, actually it is. If you ask people "do you oppose gubmint bans on hunting rifles" you get a particular response. I'd bet you get a different response if you showed them some examples of the weapons that are covered by that innocuous-sounding term.
It's not legislatively relevant. It's like using any other kind of fearmongering to move legislation or public opinion. You may be able to influence public opinion that way, but its unethical. Legislation should be based on relevant criteria, not the appearance of weapons.posted by Jahaza at 6:48 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
So my honest question is (and I would really appreciate it if someone could answer me honestly, even though I know it's stupid), why is there so much resistance to not even greater regulatory controls over guns in America, but the mere discussion of greater regulatory controls?
The NRA is fighting a war, they aren't going to give an inch to the enemy. Every attempt to regulate guns is seen as the government overstepping their bounds and attempting to control the individual. They and their members will never give ground on this, because they don't believe that guns are the problem.posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:48 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
Franklin... liberty... security... etc.
how is your liberty or security impeded by the fact that people would know you have a gun in your possession, in public?
Massachusetts, where I live, has to the best of my knowledge the US's strictest laws on rifle ownership. And a lot of people for whom hunting is an important annual source of food. So in addition to knowing how things can work in other countries, we know gun control and hunting can coexist in the US.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
This thread is growing rather long, so I may have missed it but does anyone have any thoughts on the original, mistaken suspect Ryan Lanza? I ask because he's lost his brother and mother today, yet the tv footage (which, yes, is edited) shows him with a completely blank, emotionless expression. I don't know what to make of this - his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.posted by blaneyphoto at 6:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Franklin... liberty... security... etc.
Here, Franklin refers to the Constitution, not the Bill of Rights, but it is the same:
I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.
robcorr's point is a good one. I think of the Bushmasters as hunting rifles because I know people who use them to hunt. I would also not oppose a ban, or stricter limitations, on them based on their style of action being too potentially lethal to human targets. The way these questions are framed make a lot of difference in how policies are made.posted by Sidhedevil at 6:53 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I ask because he's lost his brother and mother today, yet the tv footage (which, yes, is edited) shows him with a completely blank, emotionless expression.
I can't imagine anyone with more right to be in shock right now. Tied with the parents who lost their kids today, yeah, but Ryan Lanza is probably feeling pretty overwhelmed at the moment, to say the least.posted by vytae at 6:53 PM on December 14, 2012 [24 favorites]
...his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.
There is no manual for how a human being should deal with their sibling killing their mother, then 26 people and then himself.posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:54 PM on December 14, 2012 [82 favorites]
yet the tv footage (which, yes, is edited) shows him with a completely blank, emotionless expression. I don't know what to make of this - his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
I am pretty sure that no one, no one at all, has an adequate way to respond to news like this. It's not like there's some sort of training for how to react to finding out that your brother not only killed your mother but 20 small children.posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Blaney, people do not necessarily respond to events like these according to any of our expectations. To me, it indicates that our expectations are likely wrong, not that there is something wrong with the people that defy them.posted by Wordwoman at 6:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
It's not legislatively relevant. … You may be able to influence public opinion that way, but its unethical.
You're quite right; using the popular perception of "deer rifle" to generate opposition to restrictions on a much broader category of weapons is unethical and misleading.posted by robcorr at 6:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
I don't know what to make of this - his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.
I'm sure that if he knew who you were, he'd be sorry his grief is not public enough for your satisfaction.posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [30 favorites]
It would come to civil war if we ever tried to take the guns away. It would be like banning the bible or going to church on Sunday. People worship their guns. When you ask them to point out what good a semi-auto handgun could possibly bring other than the death of another human they rear back and say but it's for protection!
I have a handgun. I enjoy shooting at paper target circles, it's soothing for whatever reason. But if giving up my right to have that gun saves just 1 life that's a win for me. Other people feel it's a total loss.
Gun control and climate change are the same damn thing. Powerful corporate interests have embedded themselves so deeply in our culture that we are completely and utterly fucked as a society. But hey, at least I look cool standing next to my H2 with my AR15.posted by M Edward at 6:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
The NRA is fighting a war, they aren't going to give an inch to the enemy.
...his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.
Most of our ideas about how people should respond to extreme events comes from tv and movies and has very little relationship to how things work in the real world.posted by billyfleetwood at 6:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
I ask because he's lost his brother and mother today, yet the tv footage (which, yes, is edited) shows him with a completely blank, emotionless expression.
first of all, he must be in shock - second, he probably doesn't want to share his innermost feelings with anybody who happens to own a tv, which is damn near everyone - third, he hasn't processed this and won't for a damned long time
we seem to expect people to react and talk the "right way" when thrust in the public eye when they've had no experience of being there and no idea they were going to be put there - he's probably just shut down emotionally in the glare of the cameras and hasn't a clue as to what he should do or sayposted by pyramid termite at 6:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
The NRA is fighting a war, they aren't going to give an inch to the enemy.
Too bad the defenders of the rest of the First Ten Amendments aren't nearly as determined. And it must be noted that the Second Amendment Defenders are not different because they have guns, but because they have a the financial support of an entire industry totally dependent on keeping that "right". The Communications Media may be much bigger but is in no way dependent upon Absolute Freedom of Speech... in fact, they are in a position to benefit from more restrictions, therefore their support of SOPA, etc.posted by oneswellfoop at 6:59 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
fourth, he was initially exposed to this situation in the worst way possible, thank you, CNN.posted by oneswellfoop at 7:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
This thread is growing rather long, so I may have missed it but does anyone have any thoughts on the original, mistaken suspect Ryan Lanza? I ask because he's lost his brother and mother today, yet the tv footage (which, yes, is edited) shows him with a completely blank, emotionless expression. I don't know what to make of this - his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.
Didn't CNN announce his home address?posted by NoMich at 7:01 PM on December 14, 2012
Thanks, hwestiii. I suspected as much, and that really disappoints me that you agree with my original judgment because I was hoping that there was something I wasn't seeing. How can the majority of a country buy into such a toxic, paternalistic and ultimately, fatal myth like that? I really don't like believing the majority of citizens in a country as if not bad, extremely naive to the point that they put their children in the way of open harm. I sincerely hope that some good will come out of this incident, and discussion will finally open.posted by Conspire at 7:02 PM on December 14, 2012
and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.
Are you sure you've got the right guy? Apparently the press jumped all over a different guy with the same name's Facebook profile and he's been fending off media and public attention all day.posted by saulgoodman at 7:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yes, and conservatives would retort that the other side conveniently and inconsistently contrues "the people" in this amendment alone to mean "the State." Who's "right?"posted by ZenMasterThis at 7:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
When you ask them to point out what good a semi-auto handgun could possibly bring other than the death of another human they rear back and say but it's for protection!
Fairly weak argument there. I could do the same thing this guy did with a baseball bat, or a revolver, or my hands for that matter. At an elementary school who is there that is really going to stop you?
I own guns, both handguns (semi) and rifles and shotguns. I shoot quite a bit at the range, used to hunt, carry when I am in Afghanistan under the premise of self protection. This will bring up the same arguments that get hashed and re-hashed every time there is an incident. Is the gun evil, or the person...
My question has to do with his mother. Everything I have read so far says the weapons were hers. What is her background? Interesting assortment she has. And I assume no gunsafe?
Too bad this asshole didn't start with himself. Would have spared a lot of families a whole lot of sorrow. The children that survived are going to need some help after all this too.posted by a3matrix at 7:10 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Because there are just too many guns in America for any of these ideas to have any impact at all.
This idea comes up every time this discussion comes up. With apologies to your husband, it is both wrong and wrong-headed in these particular ways:
1. Guns last a long time but they don't last forever. Like everything mechanical, eventually any particular gun will fall into dis-use or into the ownership of someone who doesn't care about or like guns. With the general U.S. population becoming far, far less likely to need or want to use guns on a regular basis, this is only going to accelerate in the future. We're playing the long game here. We're not going to totally fix this problem by tomorrow morning, but we could take steps that would dramatically improve the situation pretty much immediately and with good follow through we could reduce gun injuries and fatalities several-fold in the lifetimes of your children and grandchildren.
2. Once guns are banned or severely limited, there are lots and lots of things you can do to work on reducing the number of guns out there--buy-back programs, gun turn-in programs, and that type of thing. If you cut off the supply of new weapons on the front end and then work, even slowly and gradually, to reduce the number of existing weapons it does indeed have an effect over the long term. Gun advocates like to argue that the only way to get guns out of circulation is the FBI doing house-to-house gun searches but the fact is in between doing nothing at all and heavy-handed FBI searches of every home in the country there many, many productive ways to reduce the number of firearms in circulation.
3. To effect any major type of societal change like this, you almost always have to do it step by step. Each step you'll have people crying "That didn't do anything! Waste of time!" But take 5 and 10 and 20 and 50 steps, all in the same direction, each of which didn't do much of anything by itself, but the cumulative effect does add up. Cf gay rights, civil rights, reduction in drunk driving, reduction in smoking, and many, many other similar long-term campaigns. Step by step you complete a long journey and chip-by-chip you break down a huge wall.
There is no magic instant solution, but there are real and realistic long term solutions.
But we'll never get there if we give up before we even start.posted by flug at 7:10 PM on December 14, 2012 [68 favorites]
robcorr, if you thought I was trying to rally opposition to a handgun ban by talking about how a Bushmaster is considered a deer rifle by many, including to the best of my knowledge the Connecticut government, I am either not being clear in my posts or you're not reading them carefully (which would be completely understandable in a thread moving this quickly, and on such a sensitive and upsetting topic).
If I misunderstood your post and it wasn't referring to me, my apologies.posted by Sidhedevil at 7:10 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll now be promoting a strict construction of the Second Amendment that will allow people to own as many muzzle-loading flintlock rifles as they wish.
If the dinosaurs on the Supreme Court are going to ignore the first clause of the amendment, they should at lest be held to the original intent as to the type of arms that the founders intended to be borne.posted by mygoditsbob at 7:11 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
The NRA is fighting a war, they aren't going to give an inch to the enemy.
a3matrix, we can't assume Ms. Lanza didn't have a gunsafe. Her son is reported to have killed her; overpowering her and forcing a key to a gunsafe away from her could also have happened.posted by Sidhedevil at 7:13 PM on December 14, 2012
Is it just the cynic in me that says that if you go deep enough, the strength of the pro-gun forces in the U.S. must be about money? Not to say that there aren't millions who would attest that theirs is purely a Constitutional concern, but haven't we seen how the Koch Brothers and Sheldon Adelsons and the the like, who simply want to get government out of *their* gajillion dollar businesses (e.g., eliminate taxes and regulation), have gained traction and political support for those ends by crafting messages to appeal to the fears and prejudices of--and therefore getting the votes of--the masses, by any means necessary: xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, abhorrence of anything Not ChristianTM enough, etc.?posted by argonauta at 7:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
George Szirtes, the English poet and fine translator of Hungarian literature tweeted these lines.
There are moments the heart stops,
and the temperature drops
to that icy pain.
Again.
Not again?
Again.posted by vac2003 at 7:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [25 favorites]
hoyland, in my high school in rural Massachusetts, more than half of the people I knew ate mostly deer meat in the winter. Just a little more than an hour from Boston.
So we're clear, they're almost certainly not actually subsistence hunting, in the sense of hunting as a necessary means of obtaining food.posted by hoyland at 7:16 PM on December 14, 2012
a3matrix: "Fairly weak argument there. I could do the same thing this guy did with a baseball bat, or a revolver, or my hands for that matter. At an elementary school who is there that is really going to stop you? "
Maybe one, two, or six of the adults that were killed? Maybe a bunch of the other adults that were there who might have run toward the scene had the madman with firearms been replaced with a madman with a baseball bat or his bare hands?
"[T]he strength of the pro-gun forces in the U.S." lies solidly in the intermittent and weak response from the anti-gun forces.posted by Ardiril at 7:17 PM on December 14, 2012
Yes, and conservatives would retort that the other side conveniently and inconsistently contrues "the people" in this amendment alone to mean "the State." Who's "right?"
See, I don't get that at all. The people, to me, certainly means the citizenry. But "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," to me, can't possibly construed as "[a bunch of word salad] the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." How does it not at the very least strongly imply that the citizens keeping and bearing arms are supposed to be a part of this well regulated militia?posted by jason_steakums at 7:18 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
hoyland, I am saying that these people relied on hunting as a source of a significant proportion of their annual calories, one they could not easily replace.posted by Sidhedevil at 7:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm sure that if he knew who you were, he'd be sorry his grief is not public enough for your satisfaction.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Thanks for your snide commentary to my honest questions.... I'm not looking for an argument in what I asked I simply expected to see something different from someone who's experienced such a loss. I've seen it in person - on 9/11 for example and in my work as an EMT. But yes, as those of you who pointed out that there's no standard for this are correct - its just not been my experience.posted by blaneyphoto at 7:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
These were people who were on food stamps and who received government cheese, powdered milk, etc. Not gourmets who dug venison. People who couldn't afford to buy meat.posted by Sidhedevil at 7:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Noting that both the Aurora and Newtown shooters were reportedly armored, is there any serious debate over the legality of body armor? I had assumed it was illegal, but cursory googling suggests I can get kevlar off the internet right now for about $400. I see no situation calling for kevlar outside of those in which you expect to be shot at; one such situation might be defending your home, and assuming there's a pro-kevlar argument I'm guessing that scenario is at its center, but every other application I can conceive of would be very illegal. I would also think law enforcement would vastly prefer not to be going up against privately armored individuals. I don't recall ever seeing it talked about though in these kinds of discussions. Am I just wrong about its legality here or is it not seen as a big issue relative to the main gun control debate?posted by passerby at 7:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
"[T]he strength of the pro-gun forces in the U.S." lies solidly in the intermittent and weak response from the anti-gun forces.
Knowing quite a few gun rights people, I have to tell you that they-at least the ones I know well-see the second amendment as almost a religious requirement. And that any attempt whatsoever to control or restrain gun ownership is a direct attack on their freedoms as Americans.
I don't expect most folk here to understand that or to understand how deeply ingrained it is but to expect any of the things I have seen commented on here to make one iota of difference to people who feel the way that they do? I don't see it happening. It is a mental mindset that brooks no tampering.
Thank you Joey Michaels, I grew up less than a mile from Newtown in Brookfield, this is hitting very close to home.posted by splatta at 7:23 PM on December 14, 2012
"[T]he strength of the pro-gun forces in the U.S." lies solidly in the intermittent and weak response from the anti-gun forces.
Okay, make that "the relative strength," then. The "intermittent and weak" response from the anti-gun forces might still be explained by the Follow The Money precept, no?posted by argonauta at 7:23 PM on December 14, 2012
Not to keep piling on here, but those words "well-maintained" are a huge, huge caveat.
If you haven't noticed, most things in the universe are not well maintained at all. That's because it takes a lot of work and attention to keep something well maintained.
Guns that are continually used and maintained by their owners will last a long time. But most people most of the time eventually lose interest and when that happens the fact that a well maintained gun will last many decades is irrelevant, because this actual gun is rusting unused in a damp basement.posted by flug at 7:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
These were people who were on food stamps and who received government cheese, powdered milk, etc. Not gourmets who dug venison. People who couldn't afford to buy meat.
Yeah there are a lot of people doing this where I live in Vermont as well. It's not that unusual in rural New England, in addition to rural Alaska and I'm sure other places as well. I'm not saying "Oh gosh they'll starve if they can't have guns" just answering your honest question that you asked above. Yes, there are a lot of people who hunt to put food on the table whose other options are, basically, less food.posted by jessamyn at 7:26 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Agree with Malice and argonauta that the power and money of the gun industry and its lobbies (at state levels as well as federal levels) are a huge confounding factor in making a difficult public policy conversation impossible. It shouldn't be impossible, but the blankets of gun money smother discussion.posted by Sidhedevil at 7:26 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
"And billions of dollars." - Without doubt. To change the gun culture in the US will require matching funds, dollar for dollar. As guns are a hobby for some, the fight against guns must become a hobby for a like number of activists.
Lather, rinse, repeat.posted by Ardiril at 7:26 PM on December 14, 2012
Long thread, lots of anger and hurt. Not a lot of solutions about actual, effective gun control. I don't think I read a single viable idea that would have prevented this awful tragedy. Please, spare me the dramatic angry response. But the ideas are just not there. For all the clamor over more gun control, name some real, effective gun control that would have worked here, and might work in the future. No magical solutions, please.posted by 2N2222 at 7:28 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Noting that both the Aurora and Newtown shooters were reportedly armored, is there any serious debate over the legality of body armor?
I wouldn't bat an eye if they made body armor illegal for civilian use, but is there any evidence that body armor increased the number of deaths in either event? For these sort of mass shootings it seems like as soon as the attacker is dealing with the police, the event is basically over. In both cases, it seems like the body armor was more posturing that it was anything that had a practical impact on the event.
So we're clear, they're almost certainly not actually subsistence hunting, in the sense of hunting as a necessary means of obtaining food.
Given where the gun laws are in the US, I think we can make them significantly more restrictive before we have to start worrying about people who hunt for sport, much less have to care about whether or not people are genuine subsistence hunters or not.posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:28 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
St. Alia, are the "gun rights people" you know are a perfectly-representative sample of everyone in America who opposes gun control? Every major policy position has its zealots and its more casual supporters, its orthodox members and some who are more ambivalent or open to change. You're essentially saying that because the people you know are religious about it, we should all give up on having a rational discussion of the issue. That's an absurd, concern troll-ish statement to make.posted by tonycpsu at 7:29 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, people who know me around here also know just how many representative progun people I am around. I am simply sharing a perspective that just because some of you think that these people can be persuaded with words from people they disdain as liberals? Good luck with that. Because the people I know are also the most politically active people I know.
St. Alia, with respect, it's not about who gets whose "heart broken", it's about who gets their policy agenda through the relevant legislative bodies. I don't give a fuck about winning the hearts and minds of Second Amendment absolutists.posted by Sidhedevil at 7:35 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
[This, of course, alludes to you , you need to stop "kind of obliquely" referring to stuff and actually take part in the conversation, or find a different conversation to snark in. ]posted by restless_nomad at 7:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fairly weak argument there. I could do the same thing this guy did with a baseball bat, or a revolver, or my hands for that matter. At an elementary school who is there that is really going to stop you?
Are you kidding me? A dude slashed 22 kids at a school with a knife and guess what, NO ONE DIED. (the fact that this happened on the same day is so unreal)
See the disconnect? We've already lost because that thought process runs so deep in people.
You can swing a baseball bat, slash at them with a knife, do tons of damage but they still get to go home and be held by their parents. You do that with a gun and they are all dead, no recovery, no healing, just dead.posted by M Edward at 7:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
Maybe we should leave interpretation of the Second Amendment to the pros:
"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER 478 F. 3d 370 (2008)posted by Sunburnt at 7:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
The sad but true FACT is that a gun is a pathetically poor tool for self-defense 90+% of the time, unless you, like Han Solo, shoot first. It IS the most effective tool a person can have for killing another person (but again, less so if the other person shoots first or has a bigger gun).
Which is why (and I've stated this before in "gun threads" here) the only reason I would EVER purchase a gun myself would be for the express and specific purpose of killing some other person. And I have mixed emotions over the fact that there is nothing in our system of laws and regulations preventing me from doing so.
But no, this will never be accepted by anyone who thinks a gun is a Magic God Device, no matter how much practical gun training they may ever get.posted by oneswellfoop at 7:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
St. Alia, I'm good friends with, and family of, many of people who view gun control as you describe. I don't see their minds changing, but as much as I love these particular people, I'm absolutely of the opinion that they can go ahead and have their sensibilities offended. Their offense at any form of gun control is not worth protecting at the cost of horrible things like this. And honestly, the only response I'll have if any of them try to talk to me about gun control in the near future will be: is it worth this? And if they say it is, well, that conversation's going to end right there and it's time for me to take a break from them for a while.posted by jason_steakums at 7:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [17 favorites]
Tragedies will always occur in this world. It is our duty as human beings to do everything we can to make them as least awful as possible.posted by M Edward at 7:40 PM on December 14, 2012
Well, with all due respect, I'm reading all the arguments here and imagining how...well, certain individuals I know would react. Let's just say this is a topic I am being very careful not to bring up in real life today because I don't want to hear what I would hear.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Religious" is a pretty good descriptor of a whole slew of gun owners.
The problem here is the rational debate. I'm not even seeing much here, let alone by gun nuts.posted by 2N2222 at 7:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
And if that aside was directed at me I don't appreciate it. None of what I have said is snark or disingenuous. It is the dead dog truth.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:43 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If trained police officers can't hit their target without doing damage what can we expect from a tired, overworked, underpaid teacher?
It's like we expect things to be like in the movies. Maybe violent movies are the problem but not in the way we expected them to be.posted by M Edward at 7:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
second amendment, militia, blah blah… wasn't it Tunisia who, with the lowest gun ownership rate in the world, overthrew their government in 2011?posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Maybe we should leave interpretation of the Second Amendment to the pros:
"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER 478 F. 3d 370 (2008)
And with different people on the bench, or a different political climate, or in the wake of a string of tragedies, or in a different time period, or, or, or... there would be a different outcome. It's certainly a decided matter for now, but it's far from set in stone. It was a 5-4 decision.posted by jason_steakums at 7:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
I was just thinking about today's events when I started writing my thoughts down, and then I decided to share them here.
A few years ago I quit studying journalism because I didn't want to get killed for any of the reasons journalists seem to lose their lives. I had seen too many "Journalist Killed" headlines in their various contexts and decided one day that that possibility, however remote, made me uncomfortable. It had less to do with the fact that the industry was contracting than I always said it did. So I zoomed out to study topics along a broader theme with the thought that I could maybe hone in on something else someday. I began to casually entertain teaching.
I decided to seriously pursue teaching after considering a morsel of oft-shared career advice on the green: "What would you do for a living if you weren't getting paid?" Rose-colored glasses aside, I can't think of anything that'd be as wholly satisfying as teaching. Just a moment ago I came to the realization that several of my friends are teachers. For some of them, this is a very recent development. For others, it's defined the bulk of their decades on Earth. And though these people don't know each other, they're united in their passion for their work. These are obviously things I'd have known about these people if asked, but I've never been prompted to think of such a disparate group of my friends all at once before. I've certainly never thought that they, by virtue of their profession, were even remotely liable to vanish from my life. That possibility struck me like lightning.posted by Chutzler at 7:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
The problem here is the rational debate. I'm not even seeing much here, let alone by gun nuts.
Well, all due respect, but we're less than 24 hours past the tragedy - I don't think a high level of rational debate is something you should, ah, rationally expect.posted by soundguy99 at 7:48 PM on December 14, 2012
I fully admit to being irrational about this. My level of thought is pretty much stuck at "your bit of metal is more important than these children's lives".
I am aware this is unhelpful though and would like to pursue a workable compromise with the ultimate result being fewer gun deaths. Problem is, I don't trust the "other side" to give an inch.posted by gaspode at 7:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Well, all due respect, but we're less than 24 hours past the tragedy - I don't think a high level of rational debate is something you should, ah, rationally expect.
While that's understandable, I wonder, if rational debate cannot be had, is there any reason for this thread to go on? Seriously. What possible good can come out of it?posted by 2N2222 at 7:52 PM on December 14, 2012
This idea on the right, of armed teachers - so, you don't trust them to do something as simple as collectively bargain, but you'll give them the means to kill your children?posted by jason_steakums at 7:52 PM on December 14, 2012 [57 favorites]
[Folks, there is already a MetaTalk thread if you want to debate the existence of this one. Do not do it here.]posted by restless_nomad at 7:53 PM on December 14, 2012
Is there a vaguely Germanic term for being so numb to something that you can't even compose a response to Metafilter without it being FUCK FUCK FUCK? Because there should be.posted by Keith Talent at 7:56 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
“With all the carnage from gun violence in our country, it’s still almost impossible to believe that a mass shooting in a kindergarten class could happen. It has come to that. Not even kindergarteners learning their A,B,Cs are safe. We heard after Columbine that it was too soon to talk about gun laws. We heard it after Virginia Tech. After Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek. And now we are hearing it again. For every day we wait, 34 more people are murdered with guns. Today, many of them were five-year olds. President Obama rightly sent his heartfelt condolences to the families in Newtown. But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem. Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before. What we have not seen is leadership – not from the White House and not from Congress. That must end today. This is a national tragedy and it demands a national response. My deepest sympathies are with the families of all those affected, and my determination to stop this madness is stronger than ever.”
I've never been much of a Bloomberg fan, but he's one of the few elected officials refusing to let Obama off the hook with a few tears and another emotional speech. Bloomberg is clearly pointing out that what Obama has been doing on this issue is absolutely nothing. Even if Obama bothers to send a minimal gun control bill to Congress (doubtful), it seems obvious he won't actively fight for it.
Arming teachers might well strengthen their collective bargaining... there are no unions more accepted by the Right than the Police Unions.posted by oneswellfoop at 7:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
M Edward, The NYPD officers were hampered by their own anti-gun police department. NYPD police firearms are required to have a 12-pound trigger-pull, compared to the usual 3-6 pound range for the same handguns off-the-shelf. That makes the guns difficult to fire, and when you're tugging on that heavy trigger, your aim will naturally drift. NYPD are outliers on this, and most probably meet the bare minimum proficiency for firearms-- most PDs want to save on ammunition and keep the practice requirements and qualification standards down accordingly. Next time the NYPD murders an innocent civilian, listen for the bullet count, and the hit-count. NYPD are, by and large, terrible shooters in general.posted by Sunburnt at 7:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
why is there so much resistance to not even greater regulatory controls over guns in America, but the mere discussion of greater regulatory controls
There is a lot of resistance but we often neglect to mention that there is a lot of support for regulatory control of guns as well. Numerous measures have been passed in various states and cities--some mentioned on this thread. DC passed a ban on guns (overturned), Illinois passed a ban on concealed carry (recently overturned), NYC has very strict gun controls, the Massachusetts restrictions are mentioned upthread, etc etc etc.
It's always a bit disheartening for gun control supporters because many of the strongest laws have been struck down by supreme court rulings. But many such laws have been passed--which indicates there is more support for gun control than we generally give credit. Some parts of the country are extremely pro-gun but there are also large swaths of the country where firearms restrictions have a very high level of support.
Also IMHO as part of the great demographic trends in the U.S. this century we're going to see support for gun control continue to increase--because of the same general demographic pressures that are leading to increased urbanization, changing racial make-up of U.S. society, growth of the 'nones', and other related demographic trends.
If the attitude of society in general towards guns changes, we can expect to see the Supreme Court's views slowly but surely change as well--even absent a constitutional amendment. And IMHO every single one of these horrible mass tragedies--as well as every individual gun crime and suicide--is gradually inching the general public's attitude in the direction of stronger gun control.
Just expect it to take years to decades to implement real change, not days to weeks. The determined rear-guard action by the gun lobby will slow things down, for certain. But they are on the wrong side of history. In the long run they will lose and strong restrictions on firearms will become the norm, even in the U.S.posted by flug at 7:58 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
I don't trust the "other side" to give an inch.
Nor will they. This is a debate that can only be settled in Congress and the bulk of all 50 state legislatures, with follow-through by the respective executives. The settlement will require strict laws and regulations as well as national and state police forces ready to fight other americans to the death to enforce those laws and regulations.
This could easily span generations.posted by Ardiril at 7:59 PM on December 14, 2012
This thread is growing rather long, so I may have missed it but does anyone have any thoughts on the original, mistaken suspect Ryan Lanza? I ask because he's lost his brother and mother today, yet the tv footage (which, yes, is edited) shows him with a completely blank, emotionless expression. I don't know what to make of this - his brother just killed his mother and a couple dozen children and adults... and nothing from him except a few "screw you CNN" facebook posts?
Just seems very odd to me.
1) His name and image are plastered all over the news and internet, and thousands of people share his picture on facebook and twitter with hateful comments, in assumption of his killing children at a school.
2) He learns of the death of his own mother through the news agencies.
3) His own brother IS the killer of children (and adults) at a school as well as his mother.
4) His computer and phone are confiscated from his job and from his home.
5) He is taken from his home in handcuffs to be questioned at the Police Station.
6) Everyone in the world (who watches news) now associates his name and face with this tragedy, even though he is (probably) fully innocent.
I think I would be stone faced, numb and in total shock if my normal benign day turned out like this. The poor guy. What a nightmare.posted by batikrose at 8:00 PM on December 14, 2012 [37 favorites]
Massachusetts, where I live, has to the best of my knowledge the US's strictest laws on rifle ownership.
In Massachusetts, you need a license to own any type of modern firearm. We have three types of licenses. In simplified terms, they allow you:
to own a rifles, but not handguns
to own both rifles and/or handguns, but not to carry a firearm
to own both rifles and/or handguns, and to carry a firearm if concealed
[We also have a fourth that allows you to own only pepper spray, no firearms. This exists because Massachusetts law classifies pepper spray as ammunition. This license costs less than the others, and some police departments don't know it exists.]
You apply at your local police department, which has considerable discretion. You must complete a safety class prior to applying, which is the same regardless of which license you are applying for. In legal terms, assuming that you are a fit candidate (class completed, no violent-crime convictions, etc.) you will definitely be able to obtain the first type of license, allowing you to own a rifle. However, your local police department may refuse to allow you to own handguns, or allow you to own handguns but not to carry them, or revoke your issued handgun license, if they decide you are "not a suitable person."
How is "suitability" determined? That's hard to answer. It varies from one town to the next. In some towns the police chief conducts personal interviews with all applicants. In other towns those interviews may be done by a sergeant or detective, or not done at all. Some towns require applicants to submit letters of reference from personal acquaintances, or a letter from a physician confirming the applicant's suitability to own firearms. You can appeal a determination of unsuitability to a court, but again, the police have considerable discretion and that discretion will probably be upheld if they can articulate a basis for the decision.
All licenses need to be renewed every six years. This is currently a source of controversy. Basically, state budgets in Massachusetts have been slashed in recent years and every agency is understaffed, and deadlines aren't being met. That newspaper article cites one person who waited more than a year for his license. That's unusual, but I would say it's typical right now to wait about two months. So if you applied for a gun license right now, you could reasonably expect to receive it by February or March.posted by cribcage at 8:01 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
Are you sure you've got the right guy? Apparently the press jumped all over a different guy with the same name's Facebook profile and he's been fending off media and public attention all day.
From everything I can piece together, it was the "right" Ryan Lanza; they were just mistaken because his name was found at the scene. (It sort of trumps coincidence that there was a Ryan Lanza with residences in Newtown AND Hoboken who was NOT the same Ryan Lanza.)
Lanza and his father, Peter Lanza, both work at Ernst & Young in NYC. [ABC][WSJ]
I find it completely possible that a guy with a public Facebook profile suddenly started getting hate texts because he had his Facebook tied to his phone. Can you imagine working in the tax department at a Big Six (do they still call them that?) accounting firm and your phone blowing up like that? Anyway, then he had to bus it out to Hoboken, where he met law enforcement. At some point he was able to make his wall private (that's when I saw it) and then take it down completely.
So he was the Ryan Lanza in the story, just not the guy who was responsible. I think the media need to eat some major crow on this one, just not in the exact way, and if anything even more contritely as he turned out to be a victim as surely as the other families back in Newtown. Somehow, though, I doubt that -- they'll claim it was justified by sources and all that, just as they did with Richard Jewell.posted by dhartung at 8:02 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
NYPD are outliers on this, and most probably meet the bare minimum proficiency for firearms-- most PDs want to save on ammunition and keep the practice requirements and qualification standards down accordingly
And teachers would get more training? What exactly is your argument? I was stating that "trained" people had difficulty not hurting bystanders but somehow private citizens are going to do better? Because of trigger pull and more time and money to spend on practice ammo? Really?
I purchased a weapon with a 10lb trigger pull, after researching I found it was safer, less chance of accidental discharge.posted by M Edward at 8:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
"And with different people on the bench, or a different political climate, or in the wake of a string of tragedies, or in a different time period, or, or, or... there would be a different outcome. It's certainly a decided matter for now, but it's far from set in stone. It was a 5-4 decision."
Or a different country, one I wouldn't be so proud to live in.posted by Sunburnt at 8:05 PM on December 14, 2012
The chance of accidental discharge is already quite small, hollywood notwithstanding. Furthermore, the NYPD is using weapons they were designed for optimal use with much lighter pulls.posted by Sunburnt at 8:07 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hope you're right flug.
It seems that so many people consider this kind of event to be the price of freedom, a worthwhile trade off, like the inevitable few that die in car accidents.
Look, it's tough. It's almost too Shakespearean that this happens on his watch...a few times. There are already paranoid wingnuts buying up whole gun shows because they've been irrationally convinced, irrespective of evidence, that he's going to spearhead a project to take people's guns away. And now that's exactly what we're pressuring him to do. You'll see. Once he's a lame duck he's going to take away our guns
Yes, it's the right thing to do. Yes, it's what fixed the situation in Australia after Port Arthur. But I can't quite imagine how this would go down if it happened as an Obama-led effort. I'd frankly be a little nervous about the whole scenario.
This isn't Obama's job. He didn't write these state laws and he didn't repeal the regulations. Yes, he needs to lead. But let's stop passing the buck. I want to know what people plan to do about this. I'll accept "It's complicated." I'll accept "we need to compromise." I'll accept "this is going to be tough."
But what I don't think I'm going to accept any longer is "There's just nothing we can do."
And this isn't the President's job, alone, to do. Way to set somebody up. How many people here talked about the pro-gun nuts in their Facebook feed? IT needs to start with you. Yes, you. If you haven't started talking to people, looking up actual facts, and writing your representatives about what you're going to do about it and what you want them to do about it, you're deciding to stay part of the problem. Really.posted by Miko at 8:09 PM on December 14, 2012 [23 favorites]
And teachers would get more training? What exactly is your argument? I was stating that "trained" people had difficulty not hurting bystanders but somehow private citizens are going to do better? Because of trigger pull and more time and money to spend on practice ammo? Really?
Point is that NYPD is not a good metric against to measure handgun proficiency, nor are they a good standard for "trained" personnel.
I'm not advocating for arming teachers-- I haven't yet met a teacher who seemed like the sort who could destroy another life. And a gun in the hands of someone unwilling to use it is a drawback.posted by Sunburnt at 8:11 PM on December 14, 2012
Connecticut law requires that the owner of a gun be 21 or over and bans assault weapons. Purchase of a handgun requires a 14 day waiting period, a permit from the state and a background check. The killer was 20 years old, used two handguns and an AR-15 (one of the specially banned models). It will be interesting to see where he obtained the weapons.posted by humanfont at 8:12 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Any thoughts about the fact that the most recent mass shootings have been occurring in states that would be considered much more blue than red. I live in the heart of the red states (TN with multiple connections to MS and LA) and we have NUMEROUS one on one killings perpetrated with hand guns but we don't get the mass killings. I'm not trying to set up a red vs blue controversy but I think we in the southeast probably have a higher percentage of gun ownership than you would find in MN, CO or CT but the minority of mass killings.
As much as gun control may be part of the solution it seems other things influence the behavior. Feelings of helplessness maybeposted by Carbolic at 8:13 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
I'd agree with this position but for two words: the words "not really". But those two words, stricken from your comment, result in a statement that pretty much accurately reflects my own sentiment:
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is the foundation of a rational public policy.posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:13 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
humanfont: The news has already established that the guns he used belonged to his mother.posted by Ardiril at 8:13 PM on December 14, 2012
we don't get the mass killings
Don't worry, you'll get your turn! Don't all rush at once.posted by Miko at 8:14 PM on December 14, 2012
In most discussions about gun control, the pro-gun advocates like to pretend a technical superiority, which they believe entitles them to decide the issue. They know the jargon, they understand the mechanical design, they're really into ballistics and product specifications, and they believe this somehow makes their opinion more informed, and therefore correct.
Hi. I'm a gun nerd, from a time when "nerd" meant something. I'm intensely interested in the history, design, and application of firearms. I spend an inordinate amount of my time going through formal and informal studies of various small arms and munitions. That includes their effects on society. I now firmly, irrevocably, believe in gun control.
These are some ideas for effective regulation and legislation based on technical and practical and psychological criteria, and refutations for common pro-gun arguments:
The most stupid pro-gun argument is that the press and gun control advocates mistake "automatic" with "semi-automatic." In gun-enthusiast jargon, "automatic" means the firearm will fire for as long as the trigger is pulled, like a machine gun, and "semi-automatic" means the gun will fie as fast as the trigger is pulled. So, when people describe a Glock as an automatic, the gun-nuts will scoff, as "automatic" firearms are already illegal save for those with very specialized licenses.
Well, they're wrong - the technical term for any self-loading weapon, that is, a weapon that ejects the spent round and loads a new round from a magazine or clip using energy from firing the weapon, is "automatic." Full automatic or semi automatic weapons are both automatic. Take this simple test - ask them if a Glock is a revolver or automatic. They will instinctually, without hesitation, tell you that a Glock is an automatic pistol… regardless of whether or not it has a full-auto mode or not. (It doesn't in the US.)
More, the real problem is semi-automatic weapons. You can't hit shit with a pistol or assault rifle set to full automatic.
The technology that enables mass murder, more than anything else, are high-capacity magazines. It allows the murderer to keep shooting and shooting and shooting and shooting. You can purchase a 33 round magazine for a 9mm Glock autopistol. You can point-and-shoot 33 times before needing to reload… and you reload by ejecting the spent magazine with a single button, and sliding in another 33 round magazine. Under heavy stress, maybe a 10 second operation, if you fumble a bit.
So. Here's a 5 point proposal that is simple, incremental, and respectful of hobbyists who spent thousands of dollars on murder/suicide machines instead of a bass boat or cruise on the Mediterranean or something.
1) Ban on the sale or manufacture of any magazine or clip larger than 6 rounds, for rifles and pistols. You can own them, you just can't buy or sell them anymore. This is enough, as the Amok in America prefer to buy new equipment at retail prices.
2) Ban the manufacture or sale of any other repeating firearm with a capacity larger than four rounds. If you can't take the turkey with four rounds, it wasn't meant to be.
3) Limit the sale of ammunition. You can buy four rounds a week, heavily taxed, and after a month, can only buy more when you bring back the brass. For those who like to load their own ammo, this means they're limited to 16 casings. This restriction is completely lifted for those shooting at registered and licensed gun ranges… shoot as much as you like. No taxes, either! Load as much as you like… so long as it stays at the range.
4) If you want to keep a gun at home, even a .22LR bolt action, a police officer will come to inspect how you're keeping it twice a year, and you will pay the police for this service. If you're being stupid about gun safety, you will be fined, and your license to own a gun revoked. If you want to keep a M2 heavy machine gun or any other firearm at the range… this is permitted, and cheaply. No tax, and the range deals with all of the inspections. Also, you need to pay a tax on the guns at home that covers the social cost of gun ownership in your community... no tax if you keep the gun at the range. The range needs to immediately report to the police if someone takes a gun off-site for any reason, legal or not.
5) Private gun sales need to be registered, just like auto sales. If you sell your gun to someone, and you don't register the sale after a background check, you get to keep paying the gun tax on it, and when the cops show up to see how you're storing it, and it's not there, you will go to jail. If your gun was stolen and used in a crime, and you were negligent in its storage, you will go to jail, and be on the hook for civil damages.
These points allow enthusiasts to keep shooting and hunting, and the living to keep breathing.posted by Slap*Happy at 8:19 PM on December 14, 2012 [350 favorites]
Here's the thing. I think I'm over "Why is it" and "should we/shouldn't we" have gun control sorts of arguments.
The question to ask the people in your lives - and your reps - is not what they think. Not what their ideology is. Not about how they feel about the 2nd Amendment, guns, crime, or whatever.
The question to ask is this: "What are you willing to do about this?"
What are you willing to do about this?
If we kept asking each other this, we might start to get somewhere.
I suppose a lot of people will shrug and say "nothing." I submit those people are incapable of ethical reasoning, so we can set them aside as not being participants in building a different future. Work with the people who are willing to do something.posted by Miko at 8:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
Actually "Create extremely strict controls on and strictly limit ownership of hugely dangerous things that can be stolen or mis-used resulting in massive harm to numerous innocent people" is a pretty good foundation for rational public policy.
I have watched some shit ass television, even at age 5, and it might have poisoned my little mind but I got to wake up and go to school the next day anyway.posted by Miko at 8:23 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
So true. I doubt Obama has the political impetus to even keep the ball rolling. This will require coordinated, relentless and sustained pressure from the public on elected officials. A good many more people will have to make this issue their life's career.
The NRA uses a subscription model (among other devices) to maintain their cash flow, and anti-gun forces will need to establish something equivalent. Anything less is admitting to failure.posted by Ardiril at 8:26 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
How about appointing Bloomberg head of an advisory commission on gun violence? I'm not a fan of many of his policies, but I think he would provide leadership on this issue.posted by Wordwoman at 8:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ha ha! And yet, they never shot at me. I have watched some shit ass television, even at age 5, and I got to go to school the next day anyway.
No it's not. It is highly accurate, and lightweight. If you're a good shot you can drop a moose with one shot from a .223 from a good distance.
I hunt with Native subsistence hunters in Alaska. They have many different kinds of guns, and most men have several options. The .223 is the most common choice for big game on tundra and for seals and walrus on water.
I don't endorse 10,000% markup. Ten bucks per round oughta do it, and no tax at the range.posted by Slap*Happy at 8:35 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
For the past year and change I've been working on clearing immigration hurdles with my foreign-born fiancee so she can come back to New York and we can get hitched and start a family. She's dead set on coming here. She loves being in America.
She's from a country where people don't have guns, where violent crime is thus very low, but she really dislikes certain social aspects of the place, especially as they affect a woman who marries a foreigner. She's really excited to be sorting out her move here, getting a green card and raising American kids who don't get hammered down for sticking out.
I've been willing to swallow my reasons for dissatisfaction with my country -- the lack of social programs, decent affordable healthcare, humane safety nets, the larcenous corporatism, deep-down racism, uninspired economy -- because I know that she'll be happier here, and me by extension. I've been able to suck up living in a shitty country; after all, it's the shitty country where I grew up.
But I really worry about raising kids in a place so sick with guns. This news is so horrible, I feel so terrible about these children (and adults, too) and their families, and all the people in these other recent shootings, and I don't talk to my fiancee about these things because I don't want to destroy her dream. I don't want to disappoint her by saying we should raise our kids where they'll be safer, but at the same time I want what's best for us, and I'm really afraid that might mean getting the fuck out of Dodge.
I feel like this should end with an AskMe question, but I think it fails the "answerable" test. Why do we destroy our dreams? Can we ever stop?posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 8:36 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
humanfont does make a point, though - AFAICT the Bushmaster rifle is illegal in Connecticut unless it was purchased before 1993 and subsequently registered.
troika: "Has there been a high ranking gun control advocate in the Senate since?"
There are some (Schumer authored the assault weapons ban, for instance) but it doesn't matter, because there aren't sixty of them. There aren't even fifty, really, but I think if they do abolish the filibuster in January, the Dems could probably make 50 votes plus Joe Biden happen for some incremental changes. Not the ones we'd need, mind you, but something.posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you're a good shot you can drop a moose with one shot from a .223 from a good distance.
And if you're a millionaire who looks like Tom Brady, you can date a supermodel, too.posted by Slap*Happy at 8:37 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
There will be no new gun control legislation. The U.S. civilian market is huge. We couldn't stop two wars because it would have stepped on the toes of the arms industry. You think we're ever going to let a little indoor shoot 'em up cut into their sales? Please.posted by clarknova at 8:37 PM on December 14, 2012
This idea on the right, of armed teachers - so, you don't trust them to do something as simple as collectively bargain, but you'll give them the means to kill your children?
posted by jason_steakums
They don't want cops to have collective bargaining rights either.
Trained soldiers can have trouble actually shooting someone, especially at close range. No amount of training will turn a kindergarten teacher into Jason Bourne.posted by spitbull at 8:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Slap*Happy - one thing I wonder about with your ideas is how to give people in rural areas a fair alternative to the licensed ranges thing. It's pretty common in rural areas for a hunter to burn a fair number of rounds on their own property doing things like zeroing in scopes or finding the optimal mix of powder to bullet grains for their reloaded hunting rifle ammo, and in many places there's low enough population density that a centralized shooting range for everyone to use isn't a good idea. Which is not to say that I don't like your ideas! And it would probably be fairly easy to work out something sensible for that situation. Just something it made me think of, is all.posted by jason_steakums at 8:41 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
I would have my daughter hang out in the park with the homeless drug addicts before I send her to a school where the teachers are armed.posted by Rock Steady at 8:41 PM on December 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
dhartung: If this was the guy the original commenter I was responding to was talking about when he remarked about the eerily "expressionless" Ryan Lanza making posts to the effect of "Screw you CNN!" after his mother and brother died, then it was the wrong guy. Jesus, what a nightmarish clusterfuck the future is turning out to be. Can't we do better than this?posted by saulgoodman at 8:41 PM on December 14, 2012
And if you're a millionaire who looks like Tom Brady, you can date a supermodel, too.
posted by Slap*Happy
Not really the right analogy. If you aren't a good enough shot to drop a deer with a .223 you have no business hunting animals with a gun. Gut shooting them to pieces with a cannon is not hunting.posted by spitbull at 8:42 PM on December 14, 2012 [20 favorites]
Just to remind folks of Republican pollster Frank Luntz's survey of gun owners and NRA members...
I would not take anything Frank Luntz says seriously, even if it agreed with my preconceptions.posted by clarknova at 8:43 PM on December 14, 2012
There will be no new gun control legislation. - Raise a couple 100 million dollars over the next two Presidential terms and I'll bet you could see some major changes happen starting in 2020. You just need to fight money with more money. If you are not willing to raise the cash, then move along.posted by Ardiril at 8:44 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wordwoman : How about appointing Bloomberg head of an advisory commission on gun violence? I'm not a fan of many of his policies, but I think he would provide leadership on this issue.
You mean, you want to ask the guy running the place with the highest levels of gun violence within 500 miles of me, how to deal with gun violence?
Yeah, he's done well for a major city. You and I apparently take different lessons from that.posted by pla at 8:44 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, there are a lot of people who hunt to put food on the table whose other options are, basically, less food.
I kind of call bullshit on this.
A deer is not free. There is a permit, there is time spent hunting it, gas used to drive to where it is, money and time spent butchering it, money spent storing it, ammunition, equipment (rifle, clothes, all the stupid geegaws associated with it, even amortized), on and on.
It would be one thing if you're normally processing meat from other animals and add a deer into the mix, but that's not an argument that says taking rifles is starving people.
I don't have a problem with hunting (bow hunting, go for it!), but to suggest this is only possible with a rifle or that rifles are the key to avoiding starvation is problematic at best, propaganda at worst.posted by maxwelton at 8:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
If you aren't a good enough shot to drop a deer with a .223 you have no business hunting animals with a gun.
Seconded, thirded, and fourthed. If you killing a large animal with one or two shots from a .233 is impossible you've never been a skilled hunter, or hunted with anyone who is. Or you've never been hunting and you imagine it's impossible because you can't imagine it.posted by clarknova at 8:46 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Goes a long way against the canard that we must just throw up our hands and live with it. Can we stamp out every insane istance of violent rage? No. Can we make a serious, order-of-magnitude impact on the metrics and save untold waste and grief? Yes, unquestionably.posted by Miko at 8:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
Yes, seconding the anti-depressant link, because this shit didn't happen when I was growing up, and it makes sense to figure out why the fuck people are doing this.posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:47 PM on December 14, 2012
Ardiril : Raise a couple 100 million dollars over the next two Presidential terms and I'll bet you could see some major changes happen starting in 2020.
A few hundred million? That won't even buy you a president today, much less a constitutional amendment.
And keep in mind, when you open a constitutional convention, you may well get amendments introduced you don't favor quite so much. Not so much a double-edges sword, as a swimming-pool full of razor-wire.posted by pla at 8:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
maxwelton : A deer is not free. There is a permit, there is time spent hunting it, gas used to drive to where it is, money and time spent butchering it, money spent storing it, ammunition, equipment (rifle, clothes, all the stupid geegaws associated with it, even amortized), on and on.
Look, I don't often agree with Jess (especially on issues like this one), but put bluntly, you have no fucking clue what you talk about.
Even game wardens will look the other way when you hunt to keep your family alive. Drive? Butcher? Hello, you shoot the damned things in your back yard, gut it and butcher it on site, and hopefully have a big enough freezer for the meat.posted by pla at 8:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Miko - Except we have ALWAYS had a high level of gun ownership. I have a large extended family (50) and although many don't actively shoot and the gun may be in a safety deposit box almost all (90+%) own at least on firearm. It is to the point that we feel a duty to own a firearm but many of us store them outside our homes. I have approximately 10 of 9 are in distant offsite storage. I have a carry permit (cultural obligation???) but I NEVER carry. Makes me wonder if the national gun ownership numbers are heavily skewed by people like me. The only gun I have at home is a SIG 380 that resides in the top of a closet in a mini-safe opened by combination or finger prints.
I'm not saying it won't happen here but if gun controls are the issue why isn't it happening here more than anywhere else? My opinion is that a lack of respect for the fellowman and the firearm is problem #1. If we have that respect there would be no need to control guns. The likelihood of achieving that respect is next ti nil.
Soooooooooooo.. I have no answer but I'm pretty sure severe gun control isn't it. For one reason, as an example probably 50% of the guns my extended family owns are not required to be legally unregistered. I personally have a 1940-1944 Whinchester model 62 and a High Standard automatic pistol my father bought when he was about ten years old. No registration on those
Actually, my theory is that these acts are only performed by extremely self absorbed people. We need to "no fly list" all the self absorbed.When people do these things it is all about them and nothing else.posted by Carbolic at 8:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
this shit didn't happen when I was growing up
To me, this reasoning is every bit as strong and scientific as that of the people in my Facebook feed noting that this shit didn't happen when they had prayer in school, two-parent households, and spanking growing up.posted by Miko at 8:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
How much of the NRA's operating budget comes from members and how much comes from gun manufacturers. I'm under the impression that most of the money is from the gun makers.posted by humanfont at 8:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have no answer
OK, how about you get one that we can discuss before arbitarily concluding "gun control isn't it"? Because you are standing on absolutely no ground at all for making that claim.
these acts are only performed by extremely self absorbed people.
Great! Let's pass a law against self-absorption.
??!
Look, my family owns guns. I like guns. I shoot guns. But we have a complex problem here. What are you willing to do about it?posted by Miko at 8:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes, there are a lot of people who hunt to put food on the table whose other options are, basically, less food.
I kind of call bullshit on this.
And I call bullshit on that. Do you have any idea how much meat comes out of a deer? You can keep a family of four in venison steaks for half a winter with an adult buck or doe. Try saving your license, tag, and gas money up to buy meat of similar quality at the supermarket. It's definitely worth the price.
Some states even have license exceptions for people below the poverty line.posted by clarknova at 8:52 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
If you aren't a good enough shot to drop a deer with a .223 you have no business hunting animals with a gun. Gut shooting them to pieces with a cannon is not hunting.
.223 apologists are so funny... guy, it's a varmint round they shoe-horned into an assault rifle. It was designed for coyotes and prairie dogs. Everyone who shoots it at anything other than paper hates it.
.306 rules the universe in bolt action, military and civ, for a reason.
But this leads to the M1A vs. M16 debate, and there aren't enough hours in a single day for me to cover all that territory. I gotta get up in the morning.posted by Slap*Happy at 8:53 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Carbolic, according to BRFSS survey data, MN (41.7%), TN (43.9%), & LA (44.1%) are in the same neighborhood when it comes to percent of households with guns on the premises.
CO is a bit lower at 34.7%, and CT comes in towards the bottom at 16.7%. MS is ranked sixth with 55.3%.posted by superna at 8:57 PM on December 14, 2012
Just to remind folks of Republican pollster Frank Luntz's survey of gun owners and NRA members...
I would not take anything Frank Luntz says seriously, even if it agreed with my preconceptions.
Maybe not, but the book "Saturday Night Special" by Robert Sherrill from all the way back in 1973 devotes quite a few pages to the conflicts between the ideologues who came to control the NRA and the rank-and-file members.
I think the book is out of print, but it's well worth a read if it's in your local library, or you could possibly find it on ebay or Amazon.posted by soundguy99 at 8:57 PM on December 14, 2012
And I call bullshit on that
Look, I think it's a red herring. People who subsistence-hunt for deer are not going to need to be the focus of effort in reducing mass killing. They tend to also be the last people who are going to do mass killings. Can we just set it aside? Let's not talk about people hunting deer and bear to survive. Let's assume they'll be able to continue that with some form of firearm technology, because no actual contingent of real-life people with any vestige of political power wants to take that right away.
You know, this may be an unpopular sentiment, but the mass grief over this makes me halfway angry. 1,400+ children have been killed in Palestine in the past decade, which is more than 100 per year, in a country with a population close to that of Connecticut. It's as if this shooting would happen there more than three times per year for a decade. Probably everyone there knows someone whose children have been killed.
In the Rwandan genocide in recent decades, 300 THOUSAND children were killed. And, almost all children witnessed horrors and a lot of them were raped. A lot of them saw their parents killed.
What happened in Connecticut is heartbreaking. But, it's angering that there is such strong sympathy and empathy for these American families, without acknowledgement of others across the world who are experiencing unspeakable horrors at the very same time. My thought is, a lot of these families will have only one dead child. A lot of people in, e.g., the DR Congo today have multiple dead children and relatives.
20+ children is a lot. We feel that viscerally. 1000+ women are raped in the Congo each day. 10% of those are estimated to be girls under 10 years old. That is 100 per day. 20+% of them get HIV and many die of other complications.
I just hope people will take this opportunity to notice the outrage they feel over this tragedy, and extend that empathy to people outside of our borders, who might wish for only 20 dead children in their area. Maybe people will become more compassionate day to day with that sort of empathy, or even try to help more directly.
(Not to minimize this tragedy. Just a reminder that in the US we are lucky to not experience tragedies like this except rarely.)posted by kellybird at 9:04 PM on December 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
To me, this reasoning is every bit as strong and scientific as that of the people in my Facebook feed noting that this shit didn't happen when they had prayer in school, two-parent households, and spanking growing up.
If you bring the science that solves this problem or even disproves the link between antidepressants and violence, I'd be happy to listen.posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:05 PM on December 14, 2012
I would not take anything Frank Luntz says seriously, even if it agreed with my preconceptions.
I don't like the guy either, though I'm having trouble imagining why he'd skew a poll of gun owners against the NRA. Worth noting that he apparently sat on the results for months, only releasing them after the Aurora shootings.
Other polls consistently show large majorities of the public supporting sensible steps like closing the gun show loophole on background checks. There are clearly winnable fights in the gun control area, but they won't get won nationally if all the president does about mass shootings is cry on TV.
Is he gonna shed a tear on camera the next time, too? Will that be enough for you then?posted by mediareport at 9:05 PM on December 14, 2012
Well, people who know me around here also know just how many representative progun people I am around. I am simply sharing a perspective that just because some of you think that these people can be persuaded with words from people they disdain as liberals? Good luck with that. Because the people I know are also the most politically active people I know.
I've lived my entire life in the South, mostly the southern Alabama area. There's no bigger gun nut area than right here. I'm very familiar with the type people you're referring to, and I'd be shocked if many 'liberals' believe they can be reasoned with.
Of course they can't, because they're simply fucking crazy. They will not only make no concessions, they will fight all discussion. The way to deal with these idiots is to go around them, not through them. It's going to be ugly, but you don't deal with people that can't be dealt with.posted by justgary at 9:05 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
If you bring the science that solves this problem or even disproves the link between antidepressants and violence, I'd be happy to listen.
Yeah, the science is correlation is not causation.
That shit is lazy.
BUt sure, man, let's say this is about pharmaceuticals, not guns.
What are you willing to do about it? What have you already done about it?posted by Miko at 9:07 PM on December 14, 2012
I just hope people will take this opportunity to notice the outrage they feel over this tragedy, and extend that empathy to people outside of our borders
These people are closer, and more like us. You also feel more empathy and outrage if something happens to a family member or neighbor than if it happens to a stranger in another town. It's just human nature.posted by clarknova at 9:08 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
(.308 rules the universe, I meant to say. It's important we get the details right on this stuff from here out. We need to own the technical as well as political high ground.)posted by Slap*Happy at 9:09 PM on December 14, 2012
I am not certain how a sensible gun-control policy goes against the second amendment:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
I can understand the desire and support for the right of the people to keep and bear arms (to some degree based on need) but when do we get to the well regulated part?
At the same time I am the Chris Rock/Moynehan camp that we can and should really tax the crap out of bullets. If the second amendment proponents want to play princess with their M4s they was welcome to it as long as they don't get to do it with live rounds.posted by ding-dong at 9:11 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure severe gun control isn't it
Again, the winnable fights are all very mild and moderate steps, with the added bonus of breaking the myth that the NRA is an unbeatable foe. A rhetorician with Obama's skills could fairly easily frame the discussion with poll after poll showing massive support for reasonable, moderate gun control steps, pointing out how marginal the NRA execs' opinions really are in America.
I can't claim I have myself. But I've come across them while hiking - Not dead, but dead-tired and in agony from running with a fiberglass rod through their shoulder.
And every... single... time, I've wished I had a side-arm on me to put the poor bastards down.posted by pla at 9:12 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Carbolic: "Any thoughts about the fact that the most recent mass shootings have been occurring in states that would be considered much more blue than red."
I don't know what time window you're using for "the most recent mass shootings", but this map of shootings since 1982 shows a healthy number of them in red states in recent years. Limiting the discussion just to 2012, I see three solid blue states (CA, WA, CT), three what I would call "purple" states (MN, WI, CO), and one red state (GA.)*
In other words, I really don't think you can draw any kind of conclusions about red/blue states. This looks like a pretty evenly distributed problem.
* The Oregon mall incident earlier this week doesn't meet the somewhat arbitrary criteria for inclusion in the Mother Jones article, but go ahead and add that to the blue column if you like.posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thanks to the people who have hunted with .223 for giving more details about your experiences. As I said, I know people who do use them in hunting deer, but haven't used one myself.
Those of you who are all "nobody hunts because they need food" and "nobody buys a .223 to hunt deer" need to understand that what you're saying comes across as ignorance at best to people who know otherwise. It's not helping.
Saying "Even though people hunt deer with these weapons, the risks of them being used to kill people outweigh those possible benefits, so we need to talk about regulating or outlawing them" is an argument. Saying "Nobody hunts deer with those weapons" is not. I say this as someone who lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, owns zero guns, and who has been giving to the CSGV for years.posted by Sidhedevil at 9:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
But sure, man, let's say this is about pharmaceuticals, not guns.
Americans are paranoids living in fantasyland. Blaming antidepressants is one talking point away from "MKULTRA did it". Anyone who brings it up knows it too.
(.308 rules the universe, I meant to say.)
Please. I've seen a deer taken from a moving car with two rounds from a .22LR. If you think bigger is better my earlier statement stands.posted by clarknova at 9:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Miko - I agee, it is a bit frustrating or puzzeling to see people blame violence on gun ownership when you know a bevv of people who are armed to the teeth who manage not to commit crimes. And on top of it these people are in the state s with the most lax gun control.
Gun control may eventually be necessary but the big problem these days has to do with the insane or entitled attitude of the shooters and gun control will do almost nothing to control that. We have deeper problems and at this time gun control will be akin to a band aid.
This is a mental health issue not a gun issue.
(Miko - All said with respect. I have been aware of your presence long enough tp have an impression about the quality of your post/comments and I believe that impression has always been good)posted by Carbolic at 9:14 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Slap*Happy, dude, this is probably not the time or place for a discussion about calibers, y'know?
Agreed. I was trying to make a point on how gun "experts" who do their damnedest to talk down to those who don't agree on gun rights... usually aren't all that expert. I'll pack up the technical nit-picking now.posted by Slap*Happy at 9:17 PM on December 14, 2012
gun control will do almost nothing to control that.
It may seem that way, and yet the example of every other Western democracy says otherwise.
We will never be able to control insanity or the human mind. We can, however, control the circulation, licensing, and ownership of objects.
The well-regulated part is there because we had no standing army in this country until 1791, so we needed well-trained "irregular" troops to be ready at any time. Now that we have the biggest military ever seen, I think we can dispense with the notion that gun ownership is central to our continued existence as a nation.posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 PM on December 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
And now we're back to mental illness. The US needs better mental health systems and better gun control, but it is not clear that either could have prevented this tragedy.posted by Sidhedevil at 9:18 PM on December 14, 2012
It's likely that a more serious effort toward both would reduce the incidence of tragedy.
Which issue are you willing to work on? Both? One or the other?
Or neither?
There is no statistical, inevitable reason for this to continue. We can exert some control over this.
Unless you don't want to bother.posted by Miko at 9:20 PM on December 14, 2012
The very same folks who oppose gun control tend to oppose increased federal funding for mental health care. It's almost as if this focus on the mental health angle is an effort to minimize the role of guns in 26 murders that were committed with guns.posted by tonycpsu at 9:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
I don't think a better mental illness system would prevent all of these tragedies. At least some of the recent mass shootings have been from people who had just went schizophrenic, and some of them are due to narcissists wanting to be famous. It's almost impossible to catch schizophrenic people before their first psychotic break, and sometimes that's enough. Narcissists are rarely so dysfunctional as to get themselves committed and the disorder makes them unlikely to seek treatment.
It's still a really good idea, and I think it would cut down on the murder rate a lot, but I'm not sure it'd have much of an impact on spree killers specifically.posted by Mitrovarr at 9:23 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
but it is not clear that either could have prevented this tragedy.
This is true. We have no idea yet what really happened, what the shooter's motives were, what his mental health situation was.
Of course this is a social phenomnon, so there's got to be a common thread. This would be a good time for me to link to Mark Ames's Going Postal, which inspired a BBC documentary of the same name.posted by clarknova at 9:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
The very same folks who oppose gun control tend to oppose increased federal funding for mental health care. It's almost as if this focus on the mental health angle is an effort to minimize the role of guns in 20 murders that were committed with guns.
Yeah, good point, so maybe there is progress to make on that front. Maybe this is where we can find some common ground. Let's try it.
SO OK, if you think access to mental health is the real issue, are you willing to write your reps now and say "let's enact universal, single-payer health care including mental health coverage?"
That's a tradeoff I would actually look at making in the short term, to test this "mental health" hypothesis. Totally for it. Let's try universal care, reducing stress and addressing mental health issues, to see if that reduces violent crime and mass violence over, say, a 10-year test period.
After 10 years, if having universal care has not reduced our rate of mass killing, then perhaps it will be time to examine the access to the actual hardware. If it has, then great. Gun nuts win the argument and we all get to keep our gadgets, but we all are a lot safer ad healthier because of our comprehensive, perfect universal healthcare system.
Can we ask for that bargain? Gun fans, are you willing to write your reps and maybe some op-eds and ask for universal healthcare?posted by Miko at 9:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
Well, Miko, I work on both. Have done long before this, will keep doing so after the news cycle moved on. I give to the CSGV, which I've linked a couple of times in this thread. I write to my Representative and Senators every time gun control is in the news.
And I give to a lot of mental health organizations---if I had to recommend one for others, I'd pick NAMI. I volunteered for crisis hotlines when my health permitted. I bug the shit out of my local, state, and federal officials about increasing access to mental health care.
There aren't easy answers. There certainly isn't one easy answer. Pretending there is keeps us from taking effective action, in my opinion.
And acknowledging that even the most effective action and the best policies can't prevent every obscene tragedy isn't, to me, a disincentive to work for change. If anything, it's an incentive.posted by Sidhedevil at 9:29 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
All good. I wish everyone did as you do.
Most people who pontificate about what might mitigate these rates have done a fraction of what you've done - if anything at all.
I look forward to hearing similar testimonies from the others in this thread as to where they've given, who they've written, and what they've personally done to work toward a reduction in these all-too-frequent tragedies.posted by Miko at 9:30 PM on December 14, 2012
This is a mental health issue not a gun issue.
we're never going to get anywhere on this issue until people start to realize that it's both. As well as an economic issue, and an education issue, and political corruption issue, and and the list goes on. You can't separate the guns from the culture surrounding them. And you can't prevent these tragedies from ever happening. But we can make them less common, and we can make them less deadly. We can make them less inevitable.
The bigger picture problem is not that we can't "get rid of guns". It's that we can't even have a conversation in the public sphere about sane, common sense gun laws that reflect the realities of the world that we live in. And the main reason we can't have that conversation is because a warped sense of self interest on the part of a small vocal minority of gun owners, and the industry that profits from them.
It completely baffles me how pro-gun advocates refuse to acknowledge how it is in their best interest to prevent tragedies like this from happening. If we can do something about mass shootings, handgun violence in inner cities, and accidental gun deaths,then the rest of us are much less likely to give a shit about what you're doing out on your farm or at the shooting range.
In a sane society, the NRA would be the first ones to stand up on a day like today and say that something needs to be done.posted by billyfleetwood at 9:34 PM on December 14, 2012 [56 favorites]
Sorry to be confrontational, Miko. I admire you greatly and I am certain you are trying to effect needed change.
I think where we agree is that there is a lot people can do right now to work toward the change they want to see, but the mononarrative of the mass media doesn't make space to talk about how people can help.
Miko correct More serious mental screening prior to allowing gun purchase.(If he can afford the $500 - $600 for the gun he can pay another $200-$300 for a screening. The right is to bear arms not cheap arms.
Next the more expansive idea that any citizen should have access to mental health screening.posted by Carbolic at 9:39 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you want to read the NRA 990 (2010 is the most recent), go to guidestar.org The NRA gets about half of its funding from membership fees. The armament manufacturers mostly just buy ads in The American Rifleman (which makes it a business expense.)
As I've said repeatedly, the elephant in the room of the gun control debate is the amount of personal wealth tied up in firearms. What drives the gunnuts nuts is the fear of confiscation of a large and liquid asset or the sudden conversion of that asset into contraband. That never seems to get addressed by gun control advocates. It's one of places they should start.
The rest of the typical gun-rights rant consists of the absolutely bogus claim that the 2nd Amendment encourages or sanctions sedition and treason. This is what Chief Justice Burger was referring to when he said, "[The Second Amendment] has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."posted by warbaby at 9:39 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Apparently the press jumped all over a different guy with the same name's Facebook profile and he's been fending off media and public attention all day.
Not quite. This is tangential, but when some of the media outlets who'd mistakenly identified Ryan as the killer then saw their suspect show up alive on Facebook, they compounded the initial error by mistakenly assuming the Ryan they'd found must have been a second person from the Ryan they were calling the shooter. I know I saw at least one article make that leap, although (unsurprisingly) I can't find it anymore.
It really was a mess, and it's not surprising folks would be confused about what happened.posted by mediareport at 9:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Here's the thing about the Mental Health care in the USA, and I can only speak from personal experience. I have bipolar disorder, and I've lived in nine states and 13 cities in the past 16 years. In every state and every city I've lived in, I have always been able to find affordable mental health care, and I've always been pretty damned poor. Many times, my mental health care has been free. Also, most of the crazy med suppliers offer their meds for free for those who cannot pay for them. Why? Because no one wants crazy people walking the streets unmedicated. That's a fact.
So, it's been my experience that mental health care is pretty much available to anyone who wants it. All they have to do it look for it. The people who snap and do unspeakable things (whether it's mass killings, serial killings, killing one person, or suicide) are those who refuse medical care, aren't aware that help is possible, or simple refuse to admit that they need it.
It might also help if we as a culture didn't stigmatize those of us with mental problems. So I have bipolar. Big deal. So I get a little euphoric, depressed, confused, or even angry once in a while, and my moods tend to the extreme. That doesn't make me a danger to anyone, it just makes me... different and sometimes unable to cope. My meds keep me stable and better able to deal with the world without freaking out the normals with my madness, but even in a manic rage I'm not going to get a gun and shoot anyone. It's not in my nature. I might break something, but I'd never hurt someone.
This is perhaps a trivial detail given all the horror of this story, but could anyone shed any light on why Ryan Lanza was handcuffed when he was taken in for questioning? Was he under arrest, and if so, on what basis? Seems like this guy has had a pretty bad time of it.posted by torticat at 9:43 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men
Because about 99% of mass murderers are men, and most men (in the US) are white. The DC snipers were black. The Virginia Tech shooter was Asian. The "privilege" argument is a good way to get internet traffic, but not so great for explaining the facts.posted by John Cohen at 9:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I look forward to hearing similar testimonies from the others in this thread as to where they've given, who they've written, and what they've personally done to work toward a reduction in these all-too-frequent tragedies.
Me, I am on the board of directors of a school that teaches self-defense, empowerment, and violence prevention, including de-escalation and communication techniques. Because it's never purely a mental health or a gun control issue. Sometimes when people feel like they have the tools to step into a situation, to talk to an angry person or calm down a potentially violent situation, then they can help defuse things long before they get to the massacre stage. And when people have social, verbal, and, yes, physical tools to defend themselves, they don't need to fall back on the really high-stakes weapons to feel secure. And yeah, we talk about things like the quote I posted above - about impossible gender expectations for men and women, about the necessity of learning productive ways to deal with emotions, even that everyone - including tough masculine men - have emotions. And we teach these things to the kids in our program and hope to god it helps.
There are a lot of ways to come at the problem. The other link I posted talks about the problem of the social safety net in general - not purely mental health care, because not all (or even most) sufferers of mental health disorders are violent, and not all (or even most) violent people have major mental health disorders, but drug use, history of violence and abuse, and lack of basic resources are all much more significant factors in whether or not someone will become violent.
This isn't a single-issue situation, nor is it a dual-issue situation. It's very easy to want to lay it out in black and white terms - and don't get me wrong, we've got some fucked-up health care and gun policies in this country - but it's important to recognize that it's a systemic problem, and there are many, many ways to approach it.posted by restless_nomad at 9:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [19 favorites]
"Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
There were 16 mass shootings in the US this year, with 88 fatalities.
When I heard the news today, I was saddened, but not shocked. I asked my coworker if, every six months for the rest of my life, I'll have to face a story of 12+ innocents gunned down in a public place.
The "this was an aberration" argument was silly with Columbine. Now it's willful ignorance. My only hope is that the NRA et al become exhausted with defending themselves with such predictable frequency. How many "isolated incident(s)" a year will that take?posted by murfed13 at 9:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
While I agree that it's a complex problem that ideally should be approached on many fronts, I still can't help but notice that most other first-world nations have addressed themselves most directly to gun law, and made significant headway with that - not slight declines, but orders of magnitude.
The fact that they usually also have strong healthcare in place doesn't hurt - and no doubt, we're suffering from a general lack of human-services infrastructure here that is taken for granted elsewhere - but current laxities in gun law are a bit of a low-hanging fruit, here.posted by Miko at 9:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Carbolic:More serious mental screening prior to allowing gun purchase.(If he can afford the $500 - $600 for the gun he can pay another $200-$300 for a screening. The right is to bear arms not cheap arms.
Wouldn't have helped this time. He used his mom's guns, and she probably would have passed the screening.
I would also suggest more broadly that using mental health screening as a 'gotcha' to reduce privileges is not necessarily effective; a lot of mental disorders do not eliminate your ability to hide symptoms. It might stop the completely delusional or totally schizophrenic, but it won't stop narcissists for instance.posted by Mitrovarr at 9:49 PM on December 14, 2012
but could anyone shed any light on why Ryan Lanza was handcuffed when he was taken in for questioning?
Police. Thinking logically. Ha ha.
It's obvious that kid is trapped in some kind of Kafkaesque nightmare from which we are struggling to awaken.posted by clarknova at 9:49 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Miko : Can we ask for that bargain? Gun fans, are you willing to write your reps and maybe some op-eds and ask for universal healthcare?
I very much want universal healthcare. But I can't agree with the second half of your terms, for the simple reason that mental healthcare just doesn't have the sort of magic bullets (forgive the pun) needed to "cure" such issues in a decade. We've come only the teensiest step forward from merely sedating those with mental health issues; Instead, we throw random chemical cocktails into their brains, and if they act somewhat more normal after than before, we call it good.
billyfleetwood : It completely baffles me how pro-gun advocates refuse to acknowledge how it is in their best interest to prevent tragedies like this from happening.
Of course they acknowledge that we need to prevent things like this from happening!
Okay, look at it like this - And I no way mean this as a trick situation, moment-of-total-honesty here.
I consider myself sane. I consider guns useful tools, even a bit fun to take to the range. And I would never, ever shoot a bunch of kids! I can imagine situations that might get me to kill in self-defense, but I can't picture anything that would lead to me randomly executing a classroom full of 6 year olds, ever, no way, period.
So, when you tell me the guns count as the problem... Well, you've told me, in somewhat fewer words, that you believe I would randomly go into a classroom and open fire, all because that hunk of mostly inert steel will somehow override my brain and make me do bad things.
So, perhaps you can appreciate the disconnect. You've effectively told me you want to take away my car, my computer, my washing machine, my hammer, my garage door opener, because someone, somewhere used it in a bad way. And I can only respond by looking at you like you have three heads, because seriously, my garage door opener???
/ Cue someone questioning my sanity if I don't see the difference between a gun and a washing machine - and take it as read that I will mock you for missing the forest for all those damned trees.posted by pla at 9:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
"My only hope is that the NRA et al become exhausted with defending themselves with such predictable frequency."
Forget that happening. Their staff make their livings off the gun issue.posted by Ardiril at 9:51 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
My only hope is that the NRA et al become exhausted with defending themselves with such predictable frequency.
No one quits thier job because the work is predictable and steady.
Well, okay, they do, maybe to go find themselves or something, but most don't.posted by clarknova at 9:51 PM on December 14, 2012
current laxities in gun law are a bit of a low-hanging fruit, here.
Sure, but in terms of the "what are you doing today to make things better?" question, it's not really low-hanging fruit at all. It's a thorny political issue that could use some more public pressure behind it, but it may well not be something Joe and Jane Mefite can do fuckall about tomorrow.posted by restless_nomad at 9:55 PM on December 14, 2012
It might stop the completely delusional or totally schizophrenic,
As was noted above, schizophrenia is very often late-onset. A lot of people don't even know what's happening to them, let alone even understand that it's psychiatric in nature and can be treated (if ineffectively). In other words, it's not a given that the mental health system ever even has a chance to intervene in situations like that.posted by Miko at 9:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is a mental health issue not a gun issue.
It's both.
America has twice the homicide rate of other developed countries, basically because a lot of people engage in dishonest rhetoric that prevents meaningful discussion or reform on gun control.
I suppose it's possible that Americans are just worse people, but I don't think that's as plausible as the simpler explanation: that murderous rage is more deadly with more guns.posted by grudgebgon at 9:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
If you want to get some kind of gun control measure through Congress, you're going to have to offer the pro-gun bloc something they can support. Say, put up a bill that outlaws extended magazines and the gun show loophole and automatic weapons, but also bans states and local governments from taxing rifles and bullets. That's something the hunting/sportsmen types would like and would show them that the pro-gun control side is actually serious about leaving hunters alone.
Anytime you want to get gun control through Congress, add something that makes it easier to be a hunter. It might divide the NRA membership enough to get some gun control though.posted by riruro at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
It's an ouroboros from the fetishization of violence: crazy boys mass slaughter children and a whole meme promotion cycle kicks in that ultimately feeds the next crazy boys' imaginations.
I'm skeptical of there being a solution. The crazy boys aren't typically harming the privileged and powerful. Solutions cost. They don't want to spend. No real skin off their asses, this sort of event.posted by five fresh fish at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2012
Forget that happening. Their staff make their livings off the gun issue.
I was thinking more of the "et al" -- the average anti-gun control citizen.posted by murfed13 at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nope, them neither. The NRA engineers its marketing to keep the average anti-gun control citizen's focus in line.posted by Ardiril at 10:22 PM on December 14, 2012
Why don't the Swiss have a comparable per capita rate of spree killings and other gun violence? Switzerland has a very high rate of gun ownership, including of fully automatic weapons that are banned in the U.S.posted by Jacqueline at 10:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Miko:As was noted above, schizophrenia is very often late-onset. A lot of people don't even know what's happening to them, let alone even understand that it's psychiatric in nature and can be treated (if ineffectively). In other words, it's not a given that the mental health system ever even has a chance to intervene in situations like that.
That's true. However, it should catch people who've been schizophrenic for some time - even if they lie, they won't know what 'proper answer' to give anymore, and the flattened affect is also a giveaway.
But yeah, it won't stop recent schizophrenics, and they're some of the most likely to do this sort of thing.posted by Mitrovarr at 10:29 PM on December 14, 2012
Are people living with schizophrenia ("schizoprenic" is a somewhat dehumanizing term) more likely to commit bloody, savage murder than other people?posted by KokuRyu at 10:33 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just found out that a friend's child was there today. The boy is okay. But reading the parent's Facebook updates as the events unfolded -- it's just completely heartbreaking.posted by murfed13 at 10:33 PM on December 14, 2012
People living with schizophrenia are actually far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators of it.
I'm on my phone's clunky browser so I'll let someone else follow up with the citations.posted by Jacqueline at 10:38 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
What Obama should do tomorrow is propose a bill massively funding mental health care with a new tax on the rich. No gun bans. Let's just start there. If the anti-gun control folks can let it pass, we will know all of the "but we need to focus on mental health not guns!" from that particular sector is honest. If not...
It's time they picked their poison. The issue needs to be solved, pro-actively, with all of us behind the solution. This isn't terrorism, it's not politically motivated, but it definitely terrorizes the country when these things happen in our modern connected social media and mass media environment. Enough is fucking enough. Pick a solution and get behind it if you want to keep your guns.posted by Drinky Die at 10:45 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
This breaks my heart. Those poor little kids. Their families, my God, their poor families.posted by sarcasticah at 10:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Why don't the Swiss have a comparable per capita rate of spree killings and other gun violence? Switzerland has a very high rate of gun ownership, including of fully automatic weapons that are banned in the U.S.
Actually, that's not exactly true. Automatic weapons are banned in Switzerland. And they have quite a lot of rules around gun ownership (i.e., gun control), even if they do have high rates of gun ownership.
Is Obama the first president to cry in public? Maybe "first president who showed emotion" is just as important as "first president who was black".posted by WalkingAround at 10:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
My heart goes out to all of Newtown. This is appalling.posted by harriet vane at 10:57 PM on December 14, 2012
As the person who gave it its present title, I simply followed the convention at School shooting. There is near universal agreement on the titles there.
It hurts to know that we have a naming convention for these horrific events, that they have happened enough times that we have tables, sortable by name and year and death toll.posted by brainwane at 11:03 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
I cried watching the news this morning. I don't normally cry at the drop of a hat, but I God damn well cried seeing and hearing about this.
I'm Australian, so maybe I just totally don't get it... but people actually walk around carrying guns? I mean other than police and FBI etc... but just ordinary people like me wake up, get ready and carry a gun with them? To the shops, to parties, to a bar etc?
Action is the antidote to dispair. If you want to help prevent more shootings like these...
- ignore anyone who says it can't be done. They're wrong.
- ignore anyone who blows off your suggestions with "But that won't stop all gun deaths". They're letting perfection be the enemy of improvement. No solution will fix everything wrong with guns, especially such a systemic problem as it is in America. But a lot of solutions could prevent thousands of deaths each and that is always worth doing.
- ignore anyone who says that gun nuts won't let the situation be fixed. Many responsible gun owners will support you, and you don't need the true gun nuts to give you permission to act.
There are so many things that can be done to help. Enforce existing laws and re-enact them where they've been rolled back; split the NRA base; get involved in campaign finance reform; act cleverly when enacting new regulations - succinct, sticky messaging can defeat the FUD of the NRA. This will be like civil rights and LGBT rights - a long and piecemeal battle with many fronts. Pick whichever aspect you feel best suited to and support people who choose other aspects to work on.
The Newtown Bee is our once-a-week paper. They are running stories and updates. They don't allow deep linking, just copying a quotes from "Stories Of Heroism Emerging From School Shooting Tragedy:"
But none were more tragic than the accounts of Principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was emerging from a meeting and apparently saw the gunman and warned several colleagues who were about to step into the hallway behind her, and into the shooter's direct line of fire. The last thing one witness recalled was her turning back and yelling a warning to lock the door as she apparently confronted the gunman. A few moments later she was shot.
Its a local paper, but they're very diligent about covering stories about the town in detail.posted by Joey Michaels at 11:21 PM on December 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Friends of mine have concealed carry permits in Texas, so yes. Florida just issued its millionth concealed carry permit. The rationale, as far as I can tell (for carrying concealed handguns) is for deterrent, self-protection, and protecting people too weak or stupid to protect themselves. I disagree with this.posted by KokuRyu at 11:22 PM on December 14, 2012
just ordinary people like me wake up, get ready and carry a gun with them?
Yes, and it's sick, dangerous, twisted and insane. The presidents of the United States should stop signing off their State of the Union addresses with "God bless America" and change it to "God save America". Cause when it comes to gun laws and gun culture, America is a broken state. An outlier, a rogue nation, a land whose people have lost their way, certainly in need of divine interventionposted by flapjax at midnite at 11:25 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Of my immediate family, I believe only my sister-in-law, my daughter-in-law and myself are the only ones who do not have carry permits. 9 of 11 others constantly carry, and the other two keep a gun in their cars. All but three of them are registered Democrats.posted by Ardiril at 11:27 PM on December 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense? Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.posted by Jacqueline at 11:28 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
what
Oh yeah, I forgot about CC people. I thought she meant open carry and whatnot, as is often the stereotype.
Those people really aren't a concern as far as crime and shootings go.posted by clarknova at 11:28 PM on December 14, 2012
clarknova: " Oh yeah, I forgot about CC people. I thought she meant open carry and whatnot, as is often the stereotype."
Outside of war zones, no where else in the world do people feel the need to carry a gun for self-defence while running errands. Truly, America is a land of paranoid freaks.posted by robcorr at 11:31 PM on December 14, 2012 [47 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense? Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.
I don't know about 'terrifying' but, as a Canadian, it sure sounds weird.
Sure there are laws that allow it, but nobody does it. Except maybe some conservative fruitbats at Obama town halls. You cannot conduct daily biddnez strapped and swaggering like Yosemete Sam.posted by clarknova at 11:32 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun
That's an interesting question. I think it comes from my background of being from a country where ordinary people just don't walk around carrying guns, and we think of guns as deadly and dangerous things.
I definitely lack the cultural and historical perspective that makes carrying guns seem as necessary as keys and wallets.posted by Admira at 11:37 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?
We're "paranoid freaks" because we acknowledge the existence of rape, armed robberies, and other violent crimes and don't want to be victimized?posted by Jacqueline at 11:37 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
but just ordinary people like me wake up, get ready and carry a gun with them? To the shops, to parties, to a bar etc?
In actual practice, it can very much depend on the state, county, or city you are in. And your definition of "carry" - a lot of the Ohio "Concealed Carry Law" seems to be about defining when & how you can "carry" a gun in your vehicle.
Plus, AFAICT, since nobody (here in Ohio) ever got around to passing a law that specifically forbids a person to openly carry a firearm in plain sight, it's not technically illegal as such. Undoubtedly in practice the cops would bust you for "disturbing the peace" or "creating a public nuisance" or something like that if you did.posted by soundguy99 at 11:37 PM on December 14, 2012
'Terrifying'. Depends on your neighborhood.posted by artdrectr at 11:38 PM on December 14, 2012
I don't know about 'terrifying' but, as a Canadian, it sure sounds weird.
And yet we Canadians can sure tune out the gun violence in our own communities. There is a gangland-related shooting every week someplace in Vancouver or the Fraser Valley, and gun-related deaths, on a per capita basis are double that of Japan, and many European countries.
How many people do you know who regularly carry weapons who have defended themselves?posted by KokuRyu at 11:39 PM on December 14, 2012 [17 favorites]
perspective that makes carrying guns seem as necessary as keys and wallets
For a lot of us, seem is the important word here - as in, does this actually, demonstrably, in reality make you safer?posted by soundguy99 at 11:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense? Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.
This is by no means universal. I'm in the U.S., and I don't know anyone who carries a concealed handgun (and yes, I too find it terrifying that "ordinary" people think it's ordinary).posted by Wordwoman at 11:40 PM on December 14, 2012 [17 favorites]
I definitely lack the cultural and historical perspective that makes carrying guns seem as necessary as keys and wallets.
People carrying concealed weapons are licensed to do so. All states require a background check and most also require some sort of specialized training. Americans are generally of the opinion that people who are trained and licensed are conscientious and safe with their firearms.posted by clarknova at 11:41 PM on December 14, 2012
"Switzerland has a very high rate of gun ownership, including of fully automatic weapons that are banned in the U.S."
The Swiss also have compulsory military service for men, and you're basically an army reservist for life if you live there.
Which is to say, ex-soldiers and cops owning guns doesn't bother me at all (barring mental illness, which is actually a huge problem post-Iraq and post-Afghanistan). They have training, and they're been taught that guns are serious tools, not lifestyle props and/or penis extensions.
Oh lord, how the little chickenhawks would squeal if we required them to actually enroll in the military or become a police officer before they could buy their guns and protect themselves from Nobama.posted by bardic at 11:41 PM on December 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
Americans are generally of the opinion that people who are trained and licensed are conscientious and safe with their firearms.
"Our" opinion may not jibe with actual reality.posted by soundguy99 at 11:43 PM on December 14, 2012
Yeah, open carry is technically legal in Nevada but the cops who taught the concealed carry permit class I took in Las Vegas said that in practice open carry was a bad idea because too many migrants from California and other heavy-gun-control states tended to freak out whenever they saw anyone open carrying and would call the police and exaggerate about someone "brandishing" a weapon in a "threatening" manner and then it would turn into a shitstorm. So the gist of it was that while the police themselves had no problem with people lawfully exercising their right to open carry, they much preferred that people get concealed carry permits and carry concealed so that they didn't have to constantly deal with drama from ignorant bystanders.posted by Jacqueline at 11:44 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
"What is so terrifying about 'ordinary people' routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?"
For starters, the likelihood of you, your spouse, or one of you children dying due to a gunshot (accidental or fired in anger) goes up astronomically.
Yeah, open carry is technically legal in Nevada but the cops who taught the concealed carry permit class I took in Las Vegas said that in practice open carry was a bad idea because too many migrants from California and other heavy-gun-control states tended to freak out whenever they saw anyone open carrying and would call the police and exaggerate about someone "brandishing" a weapon in a "threatening" manner and then it would turn into a shitstorm. So the gist of it was that while the police themselves had no problem with people lawfully exercising their right to open carry, they much preferred that people get concealed carry permits and carry concealed so that they didn't have to constantly deal with drama from ignorant bystanders.
Hmm, ignorant California migrants (read: immigrants) are ruining open carry with excessive calls to the police. I assume there is a link for that?posted by Drinky Die at 11:47 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
We're "paranoid freaks" because we acknowledge the existence of rape, armed robberies, and other violent crimes and don't want to be victimized?
I acknowledge the existence of all of those crimes, and I don't want to be victimised. The same is true of basically every person on earth.
I also manage to go out in the world every day without preparing myself to kill someone, and I'm glad that my fellow Australians don't have to live in constant fear like that either.posted by robcorr at 11:50 PM on December 14, 2012 [57 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?
The lack of credible studies proving that carrying a gun actually makes you safer.posted by soundguy99 at 11:52 PM on December 14, 2012 [38 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense? Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.
Carrying around an object designed for killing is not the same thing as carrying around keys or phones. That your everyday habit is to carry a killing device with you is scary to me, and I would wager, to many others.
After all, I only have your word that you can be trusted with a gun. Why on earth should I take your word for it that you deserve the ability to make causing death and damage so much easier than anyone else?
To clarify, open carry (gun visible on your person) versus concealed carry (gun hidden on your person) is a distinction treated differently by various states. In some states, you have a default right to carry a gun openly but must apply for a permit to carry a gun concealed. The logic is that concealment is dangerous because it gives the element of surprise. In other states, concealment is a precondition to carrying a gun. The logic here is that a visible gun creates fear and intimidation.
This is one example of how widely gun culture and gun laws vary across the United States.posted by cribcage at 11:55 PM on December 14, 2012
I will back Jacqueline on that statement. I have heard of similar statements from cops in other states with open carry about getting calls from people who don't know about open carry laws.posted by Ardiril at 11:55 PM on December 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?
I'd say 'that you live somewhere this is necessary', except the real answer is closer to 'that you're so filled with fear that you honestly believe it's necessary, because teenagers, or something'.
Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.
Our government, our leaders, our media, our entertainment all tell us that it's okay-- even glorious-- to kill people (many of whom are children) in other countries for this reason or for that reason. I wish I could say it's surprising when some fuckhead brings that idea home. War isn't an event, it's a cultural cancer.posted by threeants at 11:57 PM on December 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Canadians (me included) should not be so smug.
I don't mean to sound smug. A question was asked and I answered. Guns are not a part of my life so 'carrying' genuinely sounds... weird. Foreign. And terrifying.
I truly hope it does not become my 'normal'.posted by mazola at 11:58 PM on December 14, 2012
I will back Jacqueline on that statement.
I do buy that people are scared of folks walking around with killing tools. It makes absolute sense. I'm more curious about why the ignorant California migrants are being singled out.posted by Drinky Die at 11:59 PM on December 14, 2012
Drinky Die, "migrants" is not a dog-whistle for "immigrants" in Jacqueline's anecdote. It is a dog-whistle for "liberal city-folk busybodies".posted by Sidhedevil at 12:00 AM on December 15, 2012 [18 favorites]
Ignorant migrants aren't city folks. No, that term conjures up the type of folk the liberal city folk might be scared of if they walked down Main St. armed.posted by Drinky Die at 12:01 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
"why the ignorant California migrants are being singled out." - In Nevada? For the same reason Texans diss Oklahomans.posted by Ardiril at 12:01 AM on December 15, 2012
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?
Most ordinary people are terrible fucking shots.
Hell, I work in a job where most of us regularly have to pass firearms tests and go to the range and practice regularly and many of my co-workers are still terrible fucking shots. We practice shooting moving targets, we have to do this to pass our tests, and people miss a lot. And they're MUCH better than the average person.
> Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.
Where I live I rationally believe I have a much greater chance of dying in a car or of a heart attack than by some stranger killing me in the street. Why would any human live in a place that they perceive is so dangerous that they must carry deadly weapons with them at all times?
I cannot imagine the level of fear that it would take for me to do this. It sounds like being in a horror movie all the time.
Americans cared so little about the Bill of Rights that they suspended about half of it over a decade ago, and no one on either side ever even considers turning it back on any more. But try to tamper with their Second Amendment, or even mention anything about "a well-organized militia," and you'll get millions of people screaming about their fundamental rights.
It won't change. There's always a sizable block of people for whom "The American way of life is non-negotiable". The system is completely rigid - there is no mechanism for change and any leaders who would possibly implement change are weeded out long before they reach the public eye. I really do not believe that anything significant will change until there's a collapse and I simply pray that it's a small enough collapse - that is, that it occurs soon enough before all that is of value about this country has been destroyed - that something of value will be preserved.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 12:03 AM on December 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
> What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?
"Consider the stupidity of your average guy. Then remember that half of people are dumber than he is."posted by lupus_yonderboy at 12:03 AM on December 15, 2012 [38 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense?
Oh I don't know, something like when I get a text from Safety and Security that says someone's just been robbed at gunpoint not 5 blocks from my apartment, in the very spot I would have been walking through if I'd taken the first bus that passed (that doesn't go as close to my apartment). Yesterday, that happened yesterday. I was thinking "wow, that could have been me."
And that person had no defense. They weren't worried about their money or the 90%-written paper on their laptop they were going to have to rewrite. They were worried about their life. When "ordinary people" are walking around with guns, you can't just assume it's for self-defense. And really, what kind of society do we live in where guns are what people go to for self-defense? If people weren't assaulting others with guns, nobody would need guns as defense.posted by DoubleLune at 12:15 AM on December 15, 2012
Just read an interesting quote from an old interview with Wayne Lo. He carried out a similar attack at Simon's Rock 20 years ago (when he was about Adam Lanza's age), killing and wounding students and teachers. He is in prison for life in Norfolk, Massachusetts.
"The people who do these things are people who don’t want contact. They wouldn’t be capable of going out there and stabbing people to death. But there’s such a disconnect when you’re using a gun. You don’t even feel like you’re killing anybody...."
That's from someone who should know.
lupus_yonderboy: "It won't change."
People said that about tobacco control in the 60's and 70's. We can do this.posted by Cassford at 12:16 AM on December 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
What is so terrifying about "ordinary people" routinely carrying a gun for self-defense? Almost everyone I know owns at least one gun and many of us wear a concealed handgun when we go out as habitually as we carry our wallets, keys, phones, etc.
When I leave my apartment, I think "I don't want people to be able to get in when I'm not there", so I take my keys.
When I leave my apartment, I think "I'll probably wind up buying lunch today", so I take my wallet.
When I leave my apartment, I think "It's been cold outside the last few days, and can get windy -- if it does, I want to be warm", so I take a hat.
When I leave my apartment, I think "I may want to call someone, or someone may want to call me, or I'll likely surf the internet", so I take my phone.
When I leave my apartment, I think "I might be out later than usual and I'm supposed to take my medication at 10", so I take my pills.
I have never left my apartment and thought, "I might want to kill someone today; I'd better pack for that."posted by Homeboy Trouble at 12:19 AM on December 15, 2012 [73 favorites]
"What's so terrifying is that you think this is normal."
For my generation, gun culture is normal. My high school had a shooting team, both rifles and handguns. Kids made rifle stocks in wood shop and turned shotgun barrels in machine shop. The high school parking lot was a daily gun swap meet. During deer season, every gun rack in the school lot was filled with hunting rifles. During trapping season, the rifles were replaced with shotguns. That is just the way we grew up.posted by Ardiril at 12:22 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Anyone think an age of majority for handgun ownership would be worth exploring?
Say, 25 years old to apply? At that point they can be required to take classes and be thoroughly vetted in a background check.posted by absentian at 12:30 AM on December 15, 2012
No high school in Brooklyn has or ever will lathe shotgun barrels in shop class, wing-nut fantasies aside.
Which is to say, I have no problem with people outside of major urban areas having access to hunting rifles and shotguns. You have a lower population density, for starters. You can go to the woods and shoot a varmint with little chance of a bullet flying into someone's living room.
What's frustrating beyond words is how the NRA/gun-nut contingent wants to push their very specific demands on urban populations. For example, as a former DC resident (former and literal "murder capital of the world") I was appalled that Republican congresspeole, all of whom were whtie males, pushed through a bill to allow private ownership of handguns in DC.
Just a complete, arbitrary sense of entitlement along the lings of "what's good for Mule Tick, Arkansas is good for our nation's capital."
BTW, if anything is going to be banned maybe it should be military-grade body armor.posted by bardic at 12:33 AM on December 15, 2012
re: regional vs generational. Granted, I doubt the same can be said about my hometown now.posted by Ardiril at 12:33 AM on December 15, 2012
And yet we Canadians can sure tune out the gun violence in our own communities. There is a gangland-related shooting every week someplace in Vancouver or the Fraser Valley, and gun-related deaths, on a per capita basis are double that of Japan
FWIW, there basically aren't any gun deaths in Japan, because there basically aren't any guns in Japan. It's not a tough rate to double, even just in Vancouver.
I don't mean to minimize the reality of gun deaths in Canada; the rate's fully half of the USA's, which isn't anything to be particularly proud of. Though, of course, [this next point is made out of indignance, not smugness] a great many of those are committed with illegal weapons smuggled up from south of the border. America's lax gun laws don't only affect their own country; just ask Mexico.posted by Sys Rq at 12:38 AM on December 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
Just a complete, arbitrary sense of entitlement along the lings of "what's good for Mule Tick, Arkansas is good for our nation's capital."
Utter lunacy, with a healthy side portion of racism to boot.
Yes, there's some some sort of racism or ethnocentrism revealed by your comment, but not the kind you think.posted by clarknova at 12:39 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Re: body armor and personal gun rights...
It really wasn't that long ago when US businessmen and the government would shoot and kill striking workers. And it happened in South Africa this year. The right to bear arms is absolutely still relevant. Body armor too.
I'd love to see some action toward stemming the killings and other violent acts perpetrated daily in this country. I think providing easy and inexpensive access to mental health care is both more feasible and more likely to be effective. I also think using mental health screenings to restrict people's rights (at least without judicial overview) will be counterproductive. People don't need excuses to avoid getting help.
Some sensible gun regulation is OK in my book but most proposals take things way too far for my sensibilities.posted by polyhedron at 12:47 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
A bunch of white Republicans basically lecturing the mostly black citizens of DC, a city that literally lost a generation or two of its male youth to handguns that were often purchased in the NRA's home state of Virginia, was appalling. For the gentlemen from Tennessee and Georgia to proclaim they were "helping" black residents by ignoring their desire or strict gun laws was disgusting.
I can't explain it, but I suddenly get why it is important for society to have leaders, they have to take on, embody and personify for us the things that are impossible to grasp and understand, and give them a form so that we may understand and feel empathy.
I can't put my feelings into words, I cannot feel them at all, but when I watch that video, everything is brought into sharp focus and I can begin to get it.
I can't begin to imagine what the parent to those 20 children are going through tonight. To have come up to the school this morning and to not have had your child come to the parking lot to grab your hand to be taken home. To stand there in the midst of all this relief and life,hugs and tears, alone, in that parking lot, without your child. To stand there in the shame, embarrassment, anguish, confusion and isolated devastation as the realization sinks in, your child was one of the ones.
No high school in Brooklyn has or ever will lathe shotgun barrels in shop class, wing-nut fantasies aside
I don't know about lathe shotgun barrels specifically, but you're completely wrong about Brooklyn and gun culture. That's certainly a generational thing. There were rifle teams in the NYC public school until the 60's. Here's a nice article about the 1922 Championships in Brooklyn (pdf).posted by Jahaza at 12:59 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread and what's been on the TV tonight has been, for me at least, an illuminating and ultimately depressing window on the chances of meaningful gun control debate in the US. Why the hell can't some people just get over the need to be able to shoot fellow citizens?
Fuck.posted by islander at 1:00 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Are people living with schizophrenia ("schizoprenic" is a somewhat dehumanizing term) more likely to commit bloody, savage murder than other people?
No.
Especially something which requires planning; one of the more common symptoms of schizophrenia is a difficulty of motivating the self and following through on plans (avolition) and another is disorganized thinking, and both of those symptoms run contrary to the kind of planning required for mass murder.
Speaking as someone with significant experience with psychosis, it tend to be a more confusing and limiting symptom than one which galvanizes people into action; I spend a lot of time setting myself up as always telling the truth so that eventually I can engage in "reality testing" and get my clients closer to a shared reality because ultimately that is what will help them meet their own needs and stay safe. Someone with persistent and unwavering delusions can be stable in the community, but they will almost always need a "translator" like myself to deal with unexpected challenges.
"How many people do you know who regularly carry weapons have defended themselves?"
Defending yourself with a weapon isn't just about shooting an attacker, it's also about being left alone by potential attackers who know or suspect that you are armed.
"Have you ever shot anyone?" isn't a normal topic of polite conversation, so I can't definitively say whether anyone I know has done so in civilian life. (I know several people whom I can safely assume have done so as either soldiers or police officers, but again, it's not something one brings up.) Also, the defensive handgun school favored by my family spent as much time on teaching how to avoid dangerous situations and deescalate conflicts as they did on teaching us how to shoot, and most gun owners I know seem to share their philosophy that carrying a lethal weapon comes with the moral responsibility to avoid situations in which you might need it. (For example, our instructor said that most fights in bars take place between 1 and 2 AM and most fights outside of bars take place between 2 and 3 AM, so he always goes home at 12:30.)
Although no one has told me any personal stories about shooting someone in self defense, many of my friends and acquaintances have mentioned experiences in which they felt threatened and so they made their armed status known (ranging from a subtle pat of the bulge to beginning to draw) to get their potential attacker to back down long enough for them to get away. Also, just carrying a weapon affects your confidence and unconscious body language, thus making you appear less attractive as a potential target.
Personally, I had a couple of creepy dates that made me very nervous and glad to be carrying, but there's no way to really *know* in those situations if things would have gone differently if I had been unarmed. All I know is that previous experiences with men giving off similar bad "vibes" had ended badly for me because I was too afraid of them to be assertive.
Additionally, you should consider the synergy between habitual concealed carry outside the home and self defense inside the home. I know many people who have drawn their gun or audibly loaded a clip and/or chambered a round to scare off a home invader than who have ever drawn or patted their concealed weapons out on the street, and many of those people wouldn't have had their guns so close and ready if they didn't habitually load and carry them every day.
Personally, when my ex-boyfriend grabbed me and threw me to the ground inside his home (where I had been living with him), drawing my pepper spray canister might have been enough to get him to halt his immediate attack but I think him realizing that I was capable of shooting him if necessary probably helped motivate him to leave me alone long enough for me to pack and get the fuck out. If I didn't habitually carry those weapons I wouldn't have been able to reach them quickly enough to deter him from further battery.
We don't routinely carry guns because we're "paranoid freaks" who EXPECT to need a gun to defend ourselves, because we just AVOID any places, people, and situations in which we could reasonably expect need a gun. We routinely carry guns in case we are ever surprised by a need to defend ourselves when we couldn't have reasonably expected it.posted by Jacqueline at 1:06 AM on December 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
Regarding the mental health angle: I agree that everyone should have cheap and easy access to mental health care, because it's a good thing for so many reasons. But even in countries with universal health care, mental health care is not that easy to get, and the people who need it often can't or won't get it, or they get help that doesn't work for them. People from Australia and the UK and other countries are rightfully proud of the reduction in gun sprees they've achieved through gun control, but I don't think any of us are proud of our mental health care systems.
It's a worthwhile goal, but if you think it will be easier than gun control you'll be sadly disappointed. It will take the same concerted effort across many fronts, as well as a better understanding than we have now of what mentally ill people really need. It is not the easy solution we wish it could be.posted by harriet vane at 1:06 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ok, we've gone too many comments without a mention of mental health.
Gun control is only part of the problem.
The US needs to spend more money on mental health care. there is really no good argument for why we aren't. Don't let your conversations about what happened in CT end without mentioning this.posted by victory_laser at 1:07 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
lupus_yonderboy:
Wanted to respond to your post because we've had good dialogue before, and because I respect you and the way your express yourself. Couple of things:
Where I live I rationally believe I have a much greater chance of dying in a car or of a heart attack than by some stranger killing me in the street. Why would any human live in a place that they perceive is so dangerous that they must carry deadly weapons with them at all times?
I cannot imagine the level of fear that it would take for me to do this. It sounds like being in a horror movie all the time.
I live in Oakland, California, and a lot of people here are carrying firearms illegally not too far from where I live. In Fruitvale, there are a lot of taco trucks where the owners mostly take cash only. That makes them a target for robbers. So a lot of the taco truck drivers carry a concealed firearm. Illegally, because carry permits in California are very difficult to get in urban areas. I've read over the applications accepted in Alameda County (released under a public records act request) and I didn't see any taco truck owners. Or many people who lived in the flat lands. Nope. Lots of rich business owners and politicians.
Sometimes, a taco truck guy shoots at people who try to rob them. Why do they do business there? Because that's where they can make money and survive. I know, people will say, well we should have better policing. We should have poverty alleviation. We should have a fairer economic system. People should trust the Oakland Police Department to handle these things.
As you know, I agree with all those things. That doesn't change the fact that people don't trust OPD (the police brutality issue has been pretty serious here), and it hasn't been too effective either at stopping these kinds of holdups. It doesn't change the fact that working class people who have to get to work on the swing shift in Oakland have to choose between risking a misdemeanor if they get caught with a concealed firearm, or getting robbed or killed in the street. That's reality here. I'm fortunate that my job doesn't require me to make those kind of choices, but some people aren't so lucky. Yeah I get it, people should move out of that situation. That's easier said than done in some cases. And seriously, why should anyone be forced to move away from their community, from their family, from their business, simply because some thugs have created a threatening environment? Isn't there something to be said for sticking it out in your home?
Americans cared so little about the Bill of Rights that they suspended about half of it over a decade ago, and no one on either side ever even considers turning it back on any more. But try to tamper with their Second Amendment, or even mention anything about "a well-organized militia," and you'll get millions of people screaming about their fundamental rights.
I've been screaming about the Constitutional rights rollback since this "War on Terror" started. It's awful and it threatens as you say, everything that is good about the United States. We've talked about it before, and I know we are in agreement about the absolutely frightening turn the US government and elites have taken. What is hard for me to understand (and I mean this with 100% sincerity) is how people who are so concerned about the ever growing scope of oligarchy and elite lawlessness, would trust those same people to have a monopoly, even a partial one, on firearms ownership? That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
As an aside, I have seen some other comments (not yours) about the murder rate in Japan and the strict Japanese gun control laws. I've spent about a month in Japan, and have close friends there. I have the privilege to participate in what is a very old Japanese cultural tradition, taught in a post modern context, so I get to see some very old traditional attitudes, in today's context. What I can say is that modern Japan is extremely oppressive; not legally, but socially. I have deep empathy for people who live there. Japan has a much lower murder rate than the USA, around .2 per 100,000, versus the US which has around 4.7 per 100,000.
The suicide rate in Japan, on the other hand is around 26.1 per 100,000. By comparison, the US suicide rate is around 11 per 100,000. The situation in Japan is brutal and oppressive-- I would not want to live under those conditions, and I certainly do not view them as a model for what I would like America to be.
It won't change. There's always a sizable block of people for whom "The American way of life is non-negotiable". The system is completely rigid - there is no mechanism for change and any leaders who would possibly implement change are weeded out long before they reach the public eye. I really do not believe that anything significant will change until there's a collapse and I simply pray that it's a small enough collapse - that is, that it occurs soon enough before all that is of value about this country has been destroyed - that something of value will be preserved.
You know, I too am afraid of the rigidity of the system. I know we've talked a lot about that in the context of the financial sector, and I agree with you that significant change may not happen until there's a collapse. In fact, I think it's likely that significant change won't happen sufficient to avert a collapse.
In that situation, I do not want to be unarmed. I am an ethnic minority and I know exactly what happens to ethnic minorities in a collapse situation. Just look at Bosnia, or more recently, Greece. I've also hold, and have expressed personally and professionally, very anti-establishment opinions. I know what happens to people like me in a collapse situation as well.
Look, I'm under no illusion that I am going to stop a hardened (notional) hard right death squad, the mythical "12 guys with shotguns." I'd like a chance though. And at the very least, I'd like a chance to die on my feet and not on my knees.posted by wuwei at 1:11 AM on December 15, 2012 [21 favorites]
Thanks for explaining that, Jacqueline. It's a very alien attitude to me, coming from such a different culture with respect to weaponry. I keep pepper spray by my bed, have never had to use it or even threaten to use it, and I'm considered quite extreme by the friends and family who know its there. I wonder what difference, if any, there is between crime rates where we each live.posted by harriet vane at 1:11 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'd really rather no one shoot anybody. The right to bear arms existed for labor activists when the government was shooting at them, it's obviously not going to prevent the worst abuses of power. I was just trying to provide a more relatable example of tyranny in which the right to bear arms is relevant (it looks like wuwei just did a much better job). Crossing my fingers to avoid a labor-capital gunfight derail.posted by polyhedron at 1:16 AM on December 15, 2012
A few people on other forums have brought up drug law reform in reply to my requests for a policy goal righty and lefty 2nd amendment supporters could get behind and make a credible difference. Oh yeah, that's the ticket.
Want to clean up the cities where businessmen and citizens feel the need to carry a gun because they fear for their lives? Drug reform is a huge step.
Put it on that list next to healthcare reform where we can't get the Republicans to play along though.posted by Drinky Die at 1:20 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
The US needs to spend more money on mental health care. there is really no good argument for why we aren't. Don't let your conversations about what happened in CT end without mentioning this.
The majority of mass murderers have not been diagnosed with a mental illness prior to offending. Presuming that someone has a mental illness because they are a mass murderer is, frankly, not how the mental health system works right now and it may or may not be reasonable to alter that.
Asserting that mental health is inexorably linked to mass murder is stigmatizing to people with mental illnesses and decreases the likelihood of them seeking help as well as actively harmful to those who do seek help and then risk being ostracized for having a diagnosis and taking medication. If you really want to help people with mental illnesses, by all means join NAMI and raise awareness, but linking people with mental illnesses to mass murderers is both inaccurate and harmful.posted by Deoridhe at 1:20 AM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
What's frustrating beyond words is how the NRA/gun-nut contingent wants to push their very specific demands on urban populations. For example, as a former DC resident (former and literal "murder capital of the world") I was appalled that Republican congresspeole, all of whom were whtie males, pushed through a bill to allow private ownership of handguns in DC.
If you were there, you should have noticed that 52 Democrats also voted for the bill (Among them Joe Baca, a Mexican-American Democrat and Artur Davis, a black Democrat.)
Also that Marsha Blackburn was not male and neither was Candice Miller, to name two Republicans (there were others). I don't have time to go through the whole list for you.posted by Jahaza at 1:21 AM on December 15, 2012
To clarify, by "migrants" I meant the literal definition of people who used to live in one place and had moved to another -- in this case, from one U.S. state to another. I didn't realize that some people might infer that I meant immigrants from other countries.
Is there a better word for what I meant? I thought about using "newcomers to Nevada" but that's not quite right either because many of those people may have been living in Nevada for several years but never learned about Nevada's gun laws because they didn't grow up there, didn't take their civics class there, and grew up in a state where the laws and culture are very different.
These misunderstandings had become particularly problematic for local police because ~95% of people living in the Las Vegas metro area were not originally from Nevada.posted by Jacqueline at 1:23 AM on December 15, 2012
Sorry Jacq, It was way off base for the thread and I should not have posted it. I'm in chat if you want some more detail on how I found it problematic.posted by Drinky Die at 1:27 AM on December 15, 2012
The US needs to spend more money on mental health care. there is really no good argument for why we aren't. Don't let your conversations about what happened in CT end without mentioning this.
I would agree with that, especially treating and helping those with paranoia, delusions of grandeur, PTSD (from living in a less connected world? military service? belonging to cults or other organizations which stress the dangers from 'the other'?), overwrought machismo, and the myriad other possible things which lead some to conclude that stacking up weapons is a sane response to extremely unlikely events. Especially as those events become, as has been shown the world over, much less likely if guns are tightly restricted.posted by maxwelton at 1:46 AM on December 15, 2012
Couldn't sleep. Kept thinking about this tragedy. One thing that has continued to both me. Adam Lanza, the killer, his brother Ryan, erroneously initially implicated as the killer, told police he had not seen his brother since 2010. Yet, Adam lived with his mother (who Adam killed.) Two years of not coming home for a Holiday, not coming home for a weekend to do laundry or any of that? I know his parents are divorced and we (I) have not heard much about the father other than he lives in Stamford, is remarried, and works for GE Capital. For two years they never visited their father at the same time? There is something really disturbing about that. I know a lot of families have falling outs or are disfunctional, but two years without contact of a brother 4 years younger while in your early 20s seems like either Ryan was afraid of Adam or there was something else going on with the family maybe related to the fact that the guns were apparently registered to the mother. Maybe Ryan disavowed any relationship with both of them because of that?posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:00 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
I need to do something. There's something different about this tragedy. Maybe it's the cumulative effect of all the other tragedies together with yet another. Maybe it's the kids. Maybe it was seeing the military-style gun he had. Fuck the NRA. Is there some organization that acts as a countervailing force to that group? I was thinking maybe the Brady Campaign, but it seems to spend a lot of money fundraising.
It was only recently there was furore amongst gun rights advocates when Recoil magazine dared to print an article that mentioned in passing that the 4.6x30mm H&K MP7A1 shouldn't be in civilian hands.
The weapon is concealable under a light jacket, comes with a 40 round magazine and is light, accurate and easy to handle. More importantly the bullets will easily penetrate a NIJ IIA vest (the sort most police officers wear). Gun nuts went completely apeshit, demanding the writer of the article be sacked and that their constitutional rights should allow them to carry such a weapon. The magazine caved and the editor (also the writer of the article) ended up publicly apologising for his statement.
I mention this because this is what gun-control advocates are up against. The NRA and the manufacturers have a vested interest in saying "buy more stuff, shout down all arguments" and it is going to be an incredible uphill battle to convince gun bunnies to even begin to discuss where the line is drawn, never mind reach any sort of agreement. I am a big fan of recreational shooting and if I lived in the USA I know that I'd own several guns. I also know that I'd keep them at a gun club and not in my house.
I know the statistics regarding gun ownership and suicide/accidental death and I am not stupid enough to value possessions above the lives of my family. The ludicrous arguments I have seen on every pro-gun website drive me up the wall and it's all I can do to bite my tongue. I genuinely do not see how to even open the argument. As St Alia and others have said convincing a gun-owner to hand over what, in their mind, equates to a tool of freedom from opression and self-defence would be as difficult as telling a religious believer to give up their god.
If you track gun sales by year you will see that in the last 30 years they spike hugely, every election, due to right-wing fearmongering that certain weapons will be banned etc. There are ammunition shortages due to Obama being elected (same in 2008). It's not so much the military industrial complex in this case as the NRA-GOP-Religious Right complex. It's all tied in to a horrible, complex mindset which is absolutely resistant to external change.
I absolutely feel for your country and I really hope that one day the pro-gun lobby comes to the table to negotiate. Right now it's just not going to happen. I consider myself as pro-gun and pro-gun control and I can't understand who thinks incidents like this do not lead to the obvious conclusion that there are just too many guns available, too easily. Pro-gun culture is something that is simply not understood by a lot of liberal folks and it's this that is going to be hard to break through.
Slap*Happy's suggestions above are possibly the best and most sensible suggestions I have seen on the concept of gun control and tally almost exactly with how I would approach it. Civilians don't need 6 thirty rounds magazines on a chest rig over a ceramic plate and they don't need to own several thousand rounds of ammunition. If you want to churn through a couple of hundred rounds for fun go to a range and do it safely where the only people you can hurt are other like-minded people with the firearms to deter you.posted by longbaugh at 2:31 AM on December 15, 2012 [25 favorites]
Earlier this year, Jill Lepore wrote an excellent piece in The New Yorker explaining that the gun lobby's current extremist stance ("cold, dead fingers" etc) dates back no further than the 1970s. Just 40 years ago, America managed these matters in a far saner way, and surely progress could be made in that direction again. All that's required is organisation and sustained effort.
You can read Lepore's full essay here. She draws on information in Adam Winkler's new book , “Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, and the history lesson she provides is worth quoting:
“For most of its history, the NRA was chiefly a sporting and hunting association. To the extent that the NRA had a political arm, it opposed some gun-control measures and supported many others, lobbying for new state laws in the nineteen-twenties and thirties, which introduced waiting periods for handgun buyers and required permits for anyone wishing to carry a concealed weapon. It also supported the 1934 National Firearms Act—the first major federal gun-control legislation—and the 1938 Federal Firearms Act, which together created a licensing system for dealers and prohibitively taxed the private ownership of automatic weapons (‘machine guns’).
[…]
“In 1968, as Winkler relates, the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr., gave the issue new urgency. A revised Gun Control Act banned mail-order sales, restricted the purchase of guns by certain high-risk people (e.g., those with criminal records), and prohibited the importation of military-surplus firearms. […] The NRA supported the 1968 Gun Control Act, with some qualms. Orth was quoted in American Rifleman as saying that although some elements of the legislation “appear unduly restrictive and unjustified in their application to law-abiding citizens, the measure as a whole appears to be one that the sportsmen of America can live with.”
[…]
“In the nineteen-seventies, the NRA began advancing the argument that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to carry a gun, rather than the people’s right to form armed militias to provide for the common defense. Fights over rights are effective at getting out the vote. Describing gun-safety legislation as an attack on a constitutional right gave conservatives a power at the polls that, at the time, the movement lacked. Opposing gun control was also consistent with a larger anti-regulation, libertarian, and anti-government conservative agenda. […] Ronald Reagan was the first Presidential candidate whom the NRA had endorsed.”
Tragedies like Newtown encourage us to shrug our shoulders and say "yeah, but nothing will ever change". The assumption is that imposing saner gun laws would require rewriting the whole of America's history, and must therefore always be impossible. The value of Lepore's piece is that it makes it clear this simply isn't true. So much of the damage was done in the past 40 years, and if laws can move in one direction over that period, then they can also be reversed.
There are a thousand rational, reasonable Americans for every gun nut in the US, who want nothing more than the civilised public safety which every other developed nation takes for granted. Why are these people not organised into a opponent for the NRA, with many times its membership, an equally effective lobbying arm and an even louder political voice?
If politicians heard from 100 NRA members, but 1,000 gun control advocates, would that not encourage them to listen to the larger group? If corporations saw the numbers breaking down that way, wouldn't their own PR interests dictate they did the same thing?
With Obama in the White House in his final term, Newton could become the event that reverses this terrible tide. But that will happen only if the vast majority of sensible Americans keep a focus on this issue, and work to make their voice heard in Washington. The result, I'm sure, would be far from perfect - but if this isn't the point where America decides to at least make a start on fighting its gun problem, then what's it going to take?
In short, don't mourn: organise.
PS) The Onion headline that struck me most powerfully in Newton's aftermath was "Right To Own Handheld Device That Shoots Deadly Metal Pellets At High Speed Worth All Of This". Isn't that effectively what the gun lobby's saying? "Your dead kid is a price worth paying for my fun."posted by Paul Slade at 2:34 AM on December 15, 2012 [35 favorites]
You have to wonder what they started putting in the water in the 70s. It seems like the country went mad about then.posted by fshgrl at 2:37 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
If politicians heard from 100 NRA members, but 1,000 gun control advocates, would that not encourage them to listen to the larger group?
Depends. If those 100 NRA members donated $50 apiece for someone to put their position across and the 1,000 gun control advocates simply write their representatives who do you think is going to be heard?
Secondarily to that, after State Representative Gabrielle Giffords was shot how many representatives do you think would be in fear of similar action if they attempted to implement gun control policies*?
*I'm not saying this was the reason for the shooting but it's certainly something I would be concerned about given the tension between pro and anti-gun groups in the USA.posted by longbaugh at 3:02 AM on December 15, 2012
Strange, it used to be deranged American gunmen killed our leaders and celebrities for notoriety. Way too many in the 20th century and even before.
I guess now that we all hate out leaders (at least half of us, regardless) they don't bother. The nutjobs seem to want to kill the people we love. I don't think the stable of assassins is that deep.posted by Drinky Die at 3:11 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I read almost all the thread, but I've been with my kids all day. One of which started kindergarten this year.
America, I'm so very, very sorry this happened. My condolences to the family and friends of the victims.
And to the collective harmed psyche of your nation, I send hugs. Hard days ahead for all.posted by taff at 3:19 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Wow. I am just absolutely terrified of America now having been given some glimpse into the way things work over there. The average, everyday person seriously totes around a hidden gun for the means of self-defense?
If anything, I would imagine that a gun would be the worst self-defense tool you could carry around, simply because it's designed to kill, or at the very least, permanently damage someone. Instantaneously. And you don't even get to decide the level of damage either, because there are just too many variables that affect whether a bullet hits say, an artery versus something less lethal. You can't adjust for the simple thief versus a serial killer. It's made to harm them permanently or kill them with no way to dial down the settings, in the way that other self-defense tools aren't.
I would be terrified if my only option against the mugger who wants my wallet and nothing more is to take his life. Because criminal or not, it is my understanding that I have no right to decide whether someone else lives or dies.
And it terrifies me to the point that I'm seriously reconsidering ever taking a vacation to America again. It feels absolutely foreign to me that just being in public means that I relinquish the right to my own life - and to complete strangers at that, any of which has complete and total say over whether I live or die.
What if I look at someone wrong, and they've been having a bad day at work that renders them particularly suspect to offense and impulse?
What if it's late at night, and I'm going the same way as some young lady in front of me, and I get judged as a rapist?
What if someone drops their wallet, and I pick it up and tap them on the shoulder to return it, and they suddenly think that I'm a pickpocket?
Suddenly, I'm dead. And suddenly, it's not only my own life gone, but that of the other person. They've got blood on their hands now; they've got to go through the justice system.
I don't understand how people in the states live with these possibilities. I would drive myself mad just by stepping on the street if I realized that I could die from the slightest misunderstanding and the slightest impulse. How, in any way, does this make anyone more secure?
If it's just for self-defense, why not pepper spray or a taser or something like that? I would prefer having to wash pepper spray out of my eyes for an hour while the person profusely apologized for the misunderstanding the entire time, than to, y'know, be dead.posted by Conspire at 3:45 AM on December 15, 2012 [28 favorites]
Voter-ID. Talk about an imaginary problem. Why are conservatives so quick to regulate voting rights and so slow to regulate gun rights? Which one has shown more evidence of danger that necessitates harsh government regulation?posted by Drinky Die at 3:49 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The majority of mass murderers have not been diagnosed with a mental illness prior to offending. Presuming that someone has a mental illness because they are a mass murderer is, frankly, not how the mental health system works right now and it may or may not be reasonable to alter that.
i would say that if going off and shooting a bunch of people isn't something that fits our definition of mental illness, then our definition is lackingposted by pyramid termite at 3:50 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Longbaugh said: "If those 100 NRA members donated $50 apiece for someone to put their position across and the 1,000 gun control advocates simply write their representatives who do you think is going to be heard?"
Why do you assume the gun control advocates couldn't be making donations too? After all, given the relative numbers, a very small per-head donation would be enough to match the NRA's contribution and more. And why wouldn't a big corporation want to get behind a burgeoning gun control movement with a hefty cash donation they could publicise as a sign of how much they cared about America's kids?
My argument is that the gun control movement could - and should - be doing everything the NRA does, but doing even more of it. It would take organisation and sustained effort, yes, but that's precisely the point I made above.
Knee-jerk cynicism is too easy. We assume nothing can be done, therefore we don't even try, therefore nothing does get done, therefore we decide our first assumption was correct and the cycle continues. It's the flip-side of that Onion headline: "Your dead kids are a price worth paying for me being able to stay sat on my ass."posted by Paul Slade at 3:51 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, that's the thing, to sir with millipedes. The one issue I have with placing my life in the hands of total strangers is that I don't know how they think, and I don't know how they'll react on a split-second's judgement.
The average, everyday person seriously totes around a hidden gun for the means of self-defense?
the vast majority of us never do
i have only seen two gun incidents in my entire life - first, when i was working at a motel and got robbed at gunpoint
second, when i was working at a convenience store and a couple of teenagers were shot across the street, not seriously
that's what i've seen in 55 years and i probably would have seen neither if i hadn't been working night shift at public businesses
for the record, i don't believe a gun would have helped me a bit in either situation - in fact, i'm sure in the robbery, having a gun and trying to use it would have just gotten me killedposted by pyramid termite at 3:57 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
[Comment deleted. Difficult thread, I understand, but do not make personal attacks against other members. Thanks.]posted by taz at 4:06 AM on December 15, 2012
I am just absolutely terrified of America now having been given some glimpse into the way things work over there.[...]I don't understand how people in the states live with these possibilities. I would drive myself mad just by stepping on the street if I realized that I could die from the slightest misunderstanding and the slightest impulse.
Your set of fantasies about America is so filled with mischaraterization as to be offensive. You are not at all likely to die here over "the slightest misunderstanding," or, indeed, over a large misunderstanding either. You, frankly, don't seem to be engaging in the reality of things in good faith. But I wouldn't want to get in the way of your chance to spout reflexive anti-American drivel. For which, thanks by the way, it was just the perfect kind of comment for the kind of tragedy we are confronting. I hope I can be of similar support to you at some point.posted by OmieWise at 4:14 AM on December 15, 2012 [11 favorites]
Why do you assume the gun control advocates couldn't be making donations too? After all, given the relative numbers, a very small per-head donation would be enough to match the NRA's contribution and more.
I assume that because as it stands at this time, that's how it is. I would love for it to change.
My argument is that the gun control movement could - and should - be doing everything the NRA does, but doing even more of it. It would take organisation and sustained effort, yes, but that's precisely the point I made above.
I couldn't agree more. I fully support this as simply enough money = access and right now the NRA has this in spades. When the gun-control supporters outspend the gun-rights supporters is when you may start to see some effort at law making.
This will not, ultimately, change the point of views of individual guns owners who range from normal folks who enjoy target shooting to full on paranoid idiots with a military fetish and a lack of understanding of their own capabilities.
Thousands of Americans spend tens of thousands of dollars attended special training classes with professional ex-military trainers and believe that by doing so they increase their chances of foiling a terrorist plot or taking down a crazed gunman but it's utterly delusional. Real life often has a way of showing people that 20 hours of training is insufficient for the prevention of accidents.
As an example of this look to how much driver's ed most people receive and compare this to the number of accidents on the roads. Of course everyone always says "I am a good driver/shooter and I will never crash/negligently discharge a firearm". Well and good but not every accident is caused by the user. I would not be surprised to see civilians with concealed carry permits end up shooting one another in the confusion of a real live shooting event. The idea of arming teachers and expecting them to find the time to practice and develop skills is totally off the wall. What if that teacher is a 60 year old woman* and some kid in the class decides to overpower her and get the gun? Congrats - you have just made it easier for a gun to get in the wrong hands.
I've punched paper with many different firearms in my time and I am, in my own opinion, a good shot and a very safe and sensible user. I can easily group 2" at 25yds with a handgun on a range. Could I draw a concealed firearm, make the weapon ready, identify and engage a target accurately and successfully amongst a group of civilians whilst panic and chaos ensues? I very much doubt it. I think I am in the minority with that realistic opinion of my skills and certainly amongst gun bunnies I have spoken to I find the confidence level most users exhibit to be well out of whack with how they would perform if shit got real.
Personally, when I carried a gun every day I also carried pepper spray and two pocketknives. I also trained in unarmed self defense. So while I'm prepared to kill to defend myself, I'm also prepared to use non-lethal force when the latter would be sufficient to keep me safe.
I can't speak on behalf of all defensive handgun classes out there, but the ones I took spent as much time on teaching us how to avoid violent crime and deescalate hostile situations as they spent on teaching us how to shoot. The company also taught a spectrum of self defense classes (including unarmed, pepper spray, and knives in addition to their gun classes) and emphasized responding to different types of attacks with an appropriate amount of force (with "run away" being the first choice response).
It varies from state to state, but in general you have to have a reasonable fear of being killed or irreparably harmed to legally use lethal force in self defense. So a law-abiding citizen carrying a concealed gun is not going to shoot you over being offended, nervous, or suspecting you to be a thief. Even in situations in which one could legally shoot in self defense -- e.g., being mugged at knife- or gun-point -- every self-defense class I've taken has recommended just throwing your wallet/purse on the ground and running away as the preferred alternative to drawing your gun.
If you are worried about people with hair-trigger fuses blowing you away for stupid reasons that would never hold up in court then you shouldn't be worried about those of us who have gotten trained and licensed to carry concealed, you should instead be worried about the people who don't give a damn about the law and thus will carry guns regardless of whether it's legal.posted by Jacqueline at 4:36 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
A deer is not free.
As an anthropologist who studies (among other things) subsistence hunting, let me assure you I know families in both Alaska and Arkansas for whom not being able to hunt would be an economic disaster, not to mention a cultural tragedy. Yes, of course it costs money to hunt. A lot of money even if done on the cheap (and let me assure you only an idiot would do it on the cheap in Alaska, where one broken piece of equipment or moment of bad judgment can get you killed super fast).
It costs money to buy food too. Not just your gas and the cost of the groceries, but the huge incidental costs to the environment. You think it's wasteful to drive an ATV across the tundra to kill caribou? Hoe do you think your steak got from farm to slaughterhouse to supermarket to your table?
Do the math -- I have -- from a subsistence hunting point of view and if you live where it is feasible it is very economical if you are a good, efficient hunter. An adult caribou gives between 100 and 200 pounds of usable meat alone (not to mention other usable products like the pelt) depending on sex and season. Let's say 150. Let's also say that buying decent meat (and nothing is better than caribou, frankly -- great meat) costs you $10 a pound (this is Alaska, it's double that or more in the villages anyway for crap produce). That makes a single caribou worth $1500 to a family in food value. On a typical summer hunt we might take 12 over a 2 day period, and you do that many times in spring and summer (these are large, extended families that need feeding; hunters in Native Alaskan villages feed the entire community). That's $18,000 worth of meat, approximately. Yeah, that 2 day hunt used 3 or 4 ATVSs (how do you think you get 1500 pounds of meat plus another thousand or so pounds of everything else 40 miles out on the tundra?). They cost $7500 each, and use about $50-100 in gas for those 2 days (again, gas in a northern Alaskan village is about $6 a gallon). So let's call it $500 in gas, a few hundred in wear and tear on the vehicles and other equipment (you always break something), food for the hunt, very expensive hunting gear, and yes, very expensive guns and ammo (subsistence hunters do not scrimp on tools). Plus whatever the labor value of four guys for two days adds up to (not that this is an opportunity cost, a lot of Native Alaskans are full-time hunters). Let's generously say the hunting trip itself might set the family back $1200, give or take and factoring in some amortization of the gear. (Native hunters do not need permits for most kinds of game.) It's not really that much, but let's call it that.
That's a $13,800 "profit" from a successful hunting trip in equivalent food value. And without it, people in the Alaskan bush *would* starve, and in fact DO starve. Did you not hear about the Yukon salmon fisheries disaster over the last few years?
My Ozark friends, in fact, do shoot deer right off the back porch.
And in both cases, the butchering is done by the hunting families, not some processor.
You cannot take away subsistence hunting without seriously harming a small number of Americans economically and culturally. And there is no need for that. Hunters and hunting guns are not the problem in this country, except when they are blindly conjoined to the problem of 9mm semiauto pistols in the hands of mentally ill maniacs. Not one of these school shootings that I am aware of has happened in a subsistence hunting community, or involve mass carnage with a hunting rifle.
St. Alia, you do not know subsistence hunters. You know right wing ideological gun nuts. Both kinds are NRA members. But many hunters do not support the radical policies of the far right militia types and racist paranoiacs who make the most noise about gun control. From my direct observation, subsistence hunters are far more respectful of and careful about the power of a gun than even non-subsistence hunters. They learn to handle guns as children and have safety always on their mind. Hunting is not sport, it's a job, a profession, and serious business. It's also, for Native people, a cultural tradition that ties them to their own land and creates the basic framework of social structure in their communities.
Plenty of hunters I know are increasingly dubious about being lumped together in the NRA with people who own 25 handguns and hate Barack Obama because he's black (did I mention Barack Obama won Native Alaskan villages, full of Christian gunowners, by a landslide?).
The whole trick, in my opinion, would be to win over the hunters to the side of legitimate gun control, and isolate the ideologues and the nuts who believe anyone should be able to own as many of whatever human-killing gun they want. Don't lump all hunters into that crowd.posted by spitbull at 4:37 AM on December 15, 2012 [87 favorites]
Personally, when I carried a gun every day I also carried pepper spray and two pocketknives. I also trained in unarmed self defense.
In fact, as I think about it, the only mass gun killings I can think of that involved standard hunting rifles were the DC snipers and Charles Whitman back in the 60s (the UT Tower shooter, who arguably got the ball rolling on this whole approach to being batshit insane). Can anyone fill in any other recent mass shootings that involved the use (only) of a single shot or semi-auto rifle? Among other things, you just can't hide a .223 rifle in your coat and walk into a mall or a school without being seen. Seems like a big advantage for the good side to focus on handguns, not rifles.
Just to clarify one thing: the term IDIOT addressed towards those who are ready to prefer the illusory individual safety provided by gun ownership to the proven collective safety provided by sane (and by "sane" I mean extremely strict) gun control measures, and this despite comprehensive statistical evidence that owning a gun is actually far more dangerous that not owning one, is not a "personal attack", only a statement of fact.
As for the epithet BLOODY, it seems more than appropriate on the day after an elementary school teacher and scores of her pupils were killed by the very same guns that she probably kept for her "safety".posted by Skeptic at 4:54 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
(Oh and the other thing about a hunting rifle: you have to be able to shoot, which takes time and practice. An impulsive purchase of a hunting rifle in a rage isn't nearly as deadly a prospect as an impulsive purchase of a handgun that can shoot 100 rounds in 2 minutes, where you don't have to aim, just point, pull, and spray, to create mass carnage.)posted by spitbull at 4:54 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Jacqueline, it's anecdotal so you're welcome to disregard it but I know of at least two instances amongst my immediate friends where a bit of verbal has escalated to legal firearms being pulled (a handgun in one incident and a lever action from a gun rack in truck in another. That necessitated someone walking out of a bar, unlocking their truck door and their rifle rack, loading and returning to the scene of the dispute).
Guns make killing without thinking easier and that is the problem. All it takes is letting down one's guard be it through alchohol, depression, anger or any other emotion that clouds judgement and you have increased the chance of one person's actions immediately and definitively ending someone's life. Knife wounds are statistically less likely to kill you. How many knife victims survive a couple of dozen stab wounds? How many people survive a similar number of bullets?
Everyone always thinks they are a special case and won't screw up. You may have seen the video of the DEA agent in the school demonstrating safe weapon handling. Can you imagine he thought he would ND himself in front of a class of kids whilst being recorded? Can you say without hesitation that you could end a human life if you needed to without making a mistake because one of the first things my self defence teacher said to me is "If you can say 'Yes' to that question and not 'I don't know' I don't want you in my class".posted by longbaugh at 4:57 AM on December 15, 2012 [21 favorites]
you shouldn't be worried about those of us who have gotten trained and licensed to carry concealed, you should instead be worried about the people who don't give a damn about the law and thus will carry guns regardless of whether it's legal.
you shouldn't be worried about those of us who have gotten trained and licensed to carry concealed
Thanks and all, but your assurances do not entirely assuage my concerns. Not to mention that the guns belonging to you "trained and licensed" folks will always have the potential to fall into the hands of say, people who want to go shoot up a kindergarten. That's what happened in Connecticut.posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:59 AM on December 15, 2012 [16 favorites]
If you are worried about people with hair-trigger fuses blowing you away for stupid reasons that would never hold up in court then you shouldn't be worried about those of us who have gotten trained and licensed to carry concealed, you should instead be worried about the people who don't give a damn about the law and thus will carry guns regardless of whether it's legal.
I'll worry about both, thank you.
A few years ago I was standing in line at the grocery store behind some idiot practicing open carry. While waiting in line, he grew more and more impatient about how slow things were moving, and even when it was his turn, he continued to berate the poor cashier and dispute every single charge with his handgun purposefully holstered in full view. The situation was so intense, I almost ran away, and the kid at the register was visibly shaking, even after the guy had collected his things and departed for the store exit.
As long as gun culture empowers jerks like this and easily arms them, I'll be for absolute gun control.posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:00 AM on December 15, 2012 [24 favorites]
I keep thinking about this. And part of the problem is that we are such an urban society that very few people have actually hunted, handled a gun at all even. Everyone reasons from fantasy, television and movie portrayals, and projection in this debate. Even most gun owners who have handgun permits and concealed carry permits *have never actually shot a living being* in their lives. The all-volunteer military and no large conscription for major wars has also limited Americans' general experience with guns and with killing.
Longbaugh is right. No matter what permit you have, no matter what training you have, no matter how much of a badass you might thing you are, if you have never pointed a gun at a living being and pulled the trigger, as hunters must do regularly, you have no idea how you will act in the first moment you are confronted with a life or death decision to shoot. How much will your aim or judgment suffer under the stress? How much hesitation will enter your trigger finger at the precise moment you need to pull? Will you be able to keep your focus on the target or instinctively look away right at the moment you shoot? Shooting target practice will never tell you how you will act when you are about to take an actual life. Never having seen an animal die from a gunshot wound (let alone a person) means you don't understand what a gun can do. Now add someone pointing a gun back at you, and he's crazy, aggressive, and just killed 10 people so he has nothing to lose, plus he's planning on offing himself when it's over anyway.
I bet 9 out of 10 legitimate permitted concealed carry licensed gun owners would end up dead in that situation, perhaps with their own gun ending up used against them or other defenders. Ask any cop or soldier who's been in an actual gun violence situation and they will tell you the adrenaline and stress hormones and shaking hands and revulsion will overpower all but the most rigorous training and you'll miss.posted by spitbull at 5:08 AM on December 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
Spitbull - relatively good points although I would point out that most people would find it significantly more difficult to shoot a human than an animal, regardless of whether they were a hunter or not.posted by fearnothing at 5:16 AM on December 15, 2012
I live in a rural hunting community. My husband and all his friends own guns to take to the range and hunt. I don't mind the rifle as much, but I don't like the fact that he conceal carries a pistol. For him, a big part of it is *feeling* like they'll be able to protect someone in some kind of emergency. A probably bigger reason he feels so strongly about it is that it's something that he and his friends do together - go to the range on their day off. It's something that they can connect over, the same way that my friends and I all get together and talk about our babies and nursing and diapers. I maybe/kind of understand this. I think he handles them safely. I would be much happier if all the guns just lived at the range, a la what slap*happy suggested. Honestly, I'm not sure what to do about it, because this is pretty much the one thing he's interested in after his 80 hr work weeks. He also cried after he heard about the shooting, but he thinks that gun ownership is the answer. His heart is in the right place, but I think it's misguided. I agree with spitbull - I don't think he would actually be able to shoot someone effectively if it came to that. So, I honestly don't know what to do about this. I might be able to convince him to sell his gun, maybe just use his friends' when they go to the range...
but I guess the reason I'm (very soberly) posting this is to make the point that in some communities there's a lot of social pressure for gun ownership/carry that's really hard to buck (no pun intended).posted by marylucycraft at 5:17 AM on December 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
The second amendment is always going to trump gun bans in this country. We have to repeal or refine it. In doing so, it might be helpful to think of ways to open an actual dialogue with right wingers. Use a question like How would you strengthen or change the second amendment if you could rewrite it today? This would give us the opportunity to get people to rethink thinks without polarizing the issue from the get go.
Remember always that when you are talking about this issue half the people you are talking to are going to think you are taking away their rights. Either the collectivists are going to think you are talking about taking away their right to be safe from guns, or the individualists are going to think you are talking about taking away their right to protect themselves. Can't we just re-frame the issue as one where we talk about how to define both of those rights in a positive way?
This was a sickening tragedy, the worst I can think of in this country since the Bath School disaster. My heart breaks for the grieving families. I admire the passion of those who are fighting to try and find a solution that makes sense of this. I don't think there are any easy answers, but my thanks to those who care enough to try.posted by BrotherCaine at 5:21 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
...you shouldn't be worried about those of us who have gotten trained and licensed...
I mentioned this before but I want to emphasize it again. Your training is absolutely, no matter how much you value it, insufficient for reality. I drive a pretty decent mileage annually, have driven for 19 years and have weathered several frightening incidents on the road and survived. Despite this, every time I get in my car and go on the roads I assume by default that everyone is shit at driving and is not paying attention to what is going on around them.
I do not assume that my training will be sufficient to avoid an accident. I have in the past avoided hitting the car in front of me during a multi-vehicle motorway pileup only for some dipstick to plough into the back of my car still doing >40mph. Were they not paying proper attention? Was their "tool" not well maintained? Were conditions bad? Doesn't really matter. It still happened.
In other words, the statement that you have sufficient training to be safe is meaningless. An individual may have several hundred hours behind the wheel and when they hit snow, rain, a sharp turn or some other out of the ordinary situation that training goes right out the window. The same holds true of firearm training.
Nobody can promise that they won't fuck up at some point and to pretend you are a special case is delusional. This fetishisation of the warrior/warfighter/cowboy mythos is one of the most painfully stupid things I see amongst fellow firearm enthusiasts and will be amongst the hardest things to change should both parties agree to come to the table.posted by longbaugh at 5:21 AM on December 15, 2012 [78 favorites]
if you have never pointed a gun at a living being and pulled the trigger, as hunters must do regularly, you have no idea how you will act in the first moment you are confronted with a life or death decision to shoot.
Quite true. In addition, adding more guns to the situation may increase the likelihood of more casualties. I don't feel safer with the idea that some vigilante in a convenience store with me when it gets robbed will try to take out the robber. More bullets will fly than otherwise would, putting more bystanders at risk, and the escalation factor is intense.
a big part of it is *feeling* like they'll be able to protect someone in some kind of emergency
Yeah, but this is an emotionally driven fantasy and not a rationally derived position. There's no data showing this has results, which is my biggest issue with the daily heat-packers.posted by Miko at 5:25 AM on December 15, 2012 [11 favorites]
No doubt at all, fearnothing. And of course I have never pointed a gun in anger at a human (but have twice had guns pointed in anger at me, for what it's worth, and let me just say I have never forgotten either incident and both can still make me sweat even though one was 28 years ago and one was nearly 20).
But as hunters here probably remember, the first time or two you have to actually shoot a large animal that is close enough for you to hear its breathing or see its eyes, you will struggle to pull the trigger if you weren't raised hunting. I started hunting as an adult, having never handled a gun in my childhood. The people who are teaching me to hunt (I have a long way to go) have hunted since childhood, but they warned me ahead of time on my first hunt where I was allowed to actually shoot (I had to go on plenty as a helper first) that I would hesitate the first time. I thought I would be fine, I'd seen it over and over again. And then that cariibou buck turned and looked right at me in my scope and I froze and my first shot missed and I lost that buck. My Native teachers laughed -- they knew it would happen. Got my second, though. And then you come up to the animal and it's usually not quite dead even if you cleanly severed its spinal column at the neck (the preferred shot, as the head contains many delicacies you don't want to ruin with a headshot, and a gutshot ruins a lot of valuable meat, plus it is considered cruel and amateur).
I have no doubt it would be ten times harder to pull the trigger on a human being, no matter what sort of threat they posed to you. You are not thinking with your frontal cortex when you kill. In that moment, it's all limbic brain and reflex.
Earlier in my career I did a project interviewing Vietnam vets about their memories of the war. Over and over I heard stories about the trauma of the first kill of a human, and how hard it was, and how much it haunts those vets to this day.
So I'm not saying hunting makes you able to shoot in self-defense, but it gets you a lot closer to mastering the reflexive blocks you may not even know you have to inflicting violent death on a living being.
If shooting at a living thing is purely a cinematic hypothetical for you, your concealed carry permit might as well be a license to bake cakes.posted by spitbull at 5:27 AM on December 15, 2012 [11 favorites]
Miko, I know. But that's the problem - that it is emotional. That means that I can't argue him out of it. :(posted by marylucycraft at 5:29 AM on December 15, 2012
We have to repeal or refine it.
I don't think there's really anything wrong with it. We just need to pay more attention to the "well regulated" part.
It's frustrating that it was designed to set up a system of national defense that is ridiculously outdated. But the right to "keep and bear arms" can be regulated, as it is in Australia, and still result in a dramatic drop in gun deaths. WE also don't have to indulge in this goofy and childis gun culture of gun shows, hero and self-defense fantasies, and the idea that guns represent only a solution to problems without bringing with them a serious risk of creating and exacerbating problems. Those things don't flow from the 2nd amendment; they're cultural.posted by Miko at 5:29 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
That means that I can't argue him out of it.
I get it. But the data isn't there, so at the least, people like him shouldn't expect to hold forth and not be challenged on their fallacies.posted by Miko at 5:33 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
This link by Steve Weldon, a good photographer but apparently lacking as a human, might have easily already been added. Arm the teachers. Yeah, right. It's all about having enough guns in the right hands all the time. Idiotic.
I can't say how much I disagree with his assumptions. And this sort of attitude is very much why I've given up on Luminous Landscape as a reasonable place to discuss photography. It's mostly full of old, privileged white men.
Here's an idea. Have every young adult reaching majority shoot another person, fatally injuring them. Then require them to comfort the victim until they die. Only then can they qualify to carry a gun. The absurdity of what's happening in the US is sickening.posted by michswiss at 5:33 AM on December 15, 2012
When I worked at Tandy Corp many years ago, we worked with a children's advocacy group to put free gun safety brochures in all Radio Shack stores. Not gun control brochures, but common sense safety guidelines like keeping guns locked up at home, etc... We got a letter from Wayne LaPierre, then head of the NRA threatening a national boycott of Radio Shack. And that my friends is why you've never seen a gun safety brochure in a Radio Shack.posted by punkfloyd at 5:43 AM on December 15, 2012 [32 favorites]
I was puttering around in the kitchen this morning and I had Colbert on in the background, and I hear him introduce Sean Lennon, Jeff Tweedy, Mavis Staples, and the Harlem Gospel Choir who begin to sing Happy Xmas (War is Over). And when Sean starts to sing, I think for a minute it's his Dad, and it snaps me out of my puttering, and I watch Sean, and I start to weep.
I don't want to take anyone's gun away, but I still fucking hate them, and I grieve for what we have lost. He should have had more time with his dad, and all those CT families should have had more time with their children.
And so happy Christmas we hope you have fun
The near and the dear ones, the old and the young.
A very merry Christmas and a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one without any fear.
War is over if you want it, war is over now.
Here's an idea. Have every young adult reaching majority shoot another person, fatally injuring them
I know this is hyperbole, but honestly, the case for national service/military draft involving mandatory (for all but conscientious objectors) gun training and under-fire exercises strikes me as a good idea for all kinds of reasons. I hate war, but I favor the draft because I hate war and believe that if making discretionary war came at a cost to a broader segment of society there'd be less of that. If rich guys' sons were serving in Afghanistan, we'd be done there now.posted by spitbull at 5:48 AM on December 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
I don't think there's really anything wrong with it. We just need to pay more attention to the "well regulated" part.
That's exactly what's wrong with it. It's open to being interpreted as either an individual right the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed(affirmed in the Heller decision) or a collective right (Silveira v. Lockyer) by those who think the prefactory clause modifies the operating clause (which is not a useful position in light of the SCOTUS decision).
Basically, the well regulated is pretty much thrown out at this point.posted by BrotherCaine at 5:51 AM on December 15, 2012
Everyone who shoots it at anything other than paper hates it.
Tell that to every single professional big game hunter I know in Alaska dude.posted by spitbull at 5:52 AM on December 15, 2012
(Of course you also carry a .357 handgun for the bear attacks.)posted by spitbull at 5:52 AM on December 15, 2012
...honestly, the case for national service/military draft involving mandatory (for all but conscientious objectors) gun training and under-fire exercises strikes me as a good idea for all kinds of reasons. I hate war, but I favor the draft because I hate war and believe that if making discretionary war came at a cost to a broader segment of society there'd be less of that...
I think this also plays into the extreme pro-military fetishisation thing in the USA (nowhere near as pronounced anywhere else in the world I might add) where civilians purchase several thousand dollars worth of milspec kit so they can go play pretend that they are CPO Badass McGinty of DEVGRU, chasing down tangos in the desert.
It's a stupid, unhealthy fantasy that many people inhabit and this explains why every gun magazine nowadays features an AR with several hundred dollars worth of optics, lights, suppressors etc. I keep thinking of the documentary "Restrepo" where the happy-go-lucky youths slowly become psychologically damaged by the deaths of their friends around them. I sincerely doubt their experiences lend them much sympathy to the tactical tourist running around in $10,000 of self-bought kit on the weekend.
My idea of being pro-military is to support a well funded VA with psychiatric services and job training opportunities to allow those who have bravely served the chance to rejoin civilian life successfully.posted by longbaugh at 6:07 AM on December 15, 2012 [33 favorites]
Sorry should have quoted from the wikipedia article section on the decision [I made what I thought was most relevant bold]:
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms.
So the fat lady has sung at least until the balance of the court shifts. Personally I would way rather see a rewriting of the second amendment than a continual battle over this, especially since I think the collective right position on the second amendment has pretty much always been wrong (from a legal rather than moral perspective). In any case I think it's poor tactics to fight for gun control from the position that the second amendment can be ignored, and the best way to repeal or redefine it is to get a conservative to spearhead the effort and engage in compromise to get it through.
It also makes me uneasy to see people stomping all over the constitution. If we ignore the bits we find unpalatable without some kind of formal process do we make it easier to expand on that precedent in the future? Are the erosions of non-enumerated rights, free speech rights, and gun rights in part responsible for further erosions like the patriot act? I'm guessing not given the history of Japanese internment, etc... but I'm still sort of squeamish about it.posted by BrotherCaine at 6:12 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, BrotherCaine, that bothered me back when "Free Speech Zones" started appearing on campuses and at political conventions and demonstrations. And when the "free press" is kept in the dark about military operations. And when "freedom of religion" means you are free to be any kind of Christian you like or a second class citizen, take your pick.
People seem perfectly willing to "stomp" on parts of the constitution without due deliberative process in other areas, is my point, in the name of security especially.posted by spitbull at 6:15 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
snickerdoodle: ""Don't own guns because your son might kill you and steal them and use them to kill children" is not really the foundation of any kind of rational public policy.
Why not? If I give my car keys to a drunk driver, that's negligent. Why the hell can't people who leave guns where mentally unstable people can get them be charged with negligent homicide?"
Data point: after a ruthless jerk killed 16 people and wounded 11 in the German town of Winnenden with guns taken from his father's collection, the father was convicted on 15 counts of negligent homicide and 13 counts of negligent battery.posted by brokkr at 6:17 AM on December 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
Also, I bet you can't bring a concealed gun into the Supreme Court chambers, right?posted by spitbull at 6:17 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I know this is hyperbole, but honestly, the case for national service/military draft involving mandatory (for all but conscientious objectors) gun training and under-fire exercises strikes me as a good idea for all kinds of reasons.
Ah, someone else who thinks he knows what's best for everyone. In this regard, I think we are amazingly, incredibly opposed. Really, the thought infuriates me.posted by JHarris at 6:21 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
A few things I'm wondering about that may or may not be helpful:
1. I'm dumbfounded by these pictures of like 25 paramilitary police officers standing around in full body armor with assault rifles. How long did it take to get those guys together, get them suited up, and shipped out in their tank or whatever? It seems like many of these situations are ended the minute that a single cop can make contact with the shooter and put some pressure on him (that was true at Columbine and I think in a few others, maybe Va Tech?). I will be very interested to see how much time passed before any LEO went into the building.
2. High-capacity clips and magazines seem like the low-hanging fruit that Congress could (and should) make illegal with fast action. There is literally no purpose to thesethings other than to kill many many people quickly. Nobody legitimately hunts with them (I believe they are against hunting rules in most places) and there is no realistic self-defense scenario where you need to fire 100 bullets (or even 20 or 30 bullets) without changing a clip. The guy in the Colorado shooting had one of these things. I think we need to get away from looking for laws that will fix every aspect of the gun problem and just start hitting things like high-capacity magazines with very targeted action. Laws against specific products or product features do not need to solve every aspect of a given problem -- i.e., specific fire code rules do not solve all fires. Getting some very targeted laws passed I think would make a big difference in showing that guns can and should be subject to new federal legislation, which seems currently to be some kind of impossible dream.posted by Mid at 6:22 AM on December 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
Start here.
Let's make the next 100 comments here a show of hands.
posted by Ardiril
(remember I'm talking to a pretty right-wing Republican here)
Dear Senator Cornin,
As a voting citizen I would like to have my voice heard on the issue of firearm regulation. I believe it is long since past the time when America needs to find common-sense ways to lessen firearm deaths. The number of Americans who die as a result of gun violence is absolutely unacceptable. It is a national health crisis and I urge you to review the Center for Desease Control's exhaustive statistics regarding gun deaths and injuries. They are both sobering and damning of our inaction. I support the right of responsible citizens to own firearms, but strongly belevie that common-sense regulations that could demonstrably lessen firearm deaths must be implemented as rapidly as possible. Lives are at stake.
only having the balls to stand up to our insane selfish gun culture will.
But what does that mean? I'm not being rhetorical, I want to be specific. Does "our insane selfish gun culture" include first-person shooter games? If so, then I will stand up to that. I don't understand the fun in spending an afternoon shooting fake people in the face; I think it's poisoning. Guns are purposeful and I don't want to restrict people's access to them; I just want people to know what guns are for - to kill things, including people. And I don't find that "fun". And like with guns, I don't want first-person shooter games outlawed or restricted. I want them to be entirely unpopular and uncool and nobody with any decency or self-respect would buy them.posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:27 AM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ah, someone else who thinks he knows what's best for everyone. In this regard, I think we are amazingly, incredibly opposed. Really, the thought infuriates me.
posted by JHarris
Isn't this entire debate about what's "best for everyone?" Whether you support restricting or expanding gun rights, presumably your argument is that it's "best for everyone."
Making only poor people pay the cost in blood for wars of choice is fine for everyone I guess, sorry to infuriate you with a proposal that many on the right support more than many on the left. I did allow for conscientious objection, but I see compulsory national service of some sort as an unmitigated good.posted by spitbull at 6:29 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
America, we can do better.posted by tommasz at 6:29 AM on December 15, 2012
For those of you in Michigan, where Snyder is about to sign a law that relaxes the concealed carry law, here is the contact page to encourage him, in light of this event, to reconsider signing the legislation. I suspect he might also appreciate the opinions of those that travel to Michigan, attend football games here, come over from Windsor to see a baseball game, or those that have family here... He would really like to know how you feel about guns in day care centers.posted by HuronBob at 6:40 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
roboton666: The only way I can feel this is by watching Obama's press conference this afternoon.
This.
I have an 8 year old. I have a niece (two of them actually, both that I see every day and that might as well be my own daughters) that is a kindergartener. Every day I'm lucky enough to drive just a couple minutes from home and drop my boy off from school. And every day, because I'm an overly sentimental sap when it comes to my son, to whom I'm grateful nearly every single second of every day for literally saving my life with his birth, I stare at him as he enters the school. He walks up the sidewalk into the grade school I too attended, housing about 300 pre-k through 6th graders, and I memorize that boy's walk. I note his little coat and his StL Cardinals backpack. I note the way he saunters with his little boy walk and I try to commit his messy coif and whatever toy he decided to drag to school that day in his hands to my memory. Nearly every day after he's departed our car, I nearly cry. I don't know why I do any of this other than I love him so damn much...
I sat all day at work yesterday with the newscast in real time playing in the background and fought tears because my god, America. Because my god, it was just a tiny school full of tiny humans and even though I fought the urge to make it about me, my god, that could have been my son's school. That could have been my niece's classroom. I can't even...
And then I watched the President and I felt okay about crying right there at my desk. He too was thinking my god, those children and those teachers. Just a tiny school. He seemed to be right where I was in terms of realizing that it was impossible to even comprehend this. I imagine that at some point he too thought about his own little girls walking into school and maybe at some point, like most parents I'm sure, he too committed that little seemingly meaningless scene down in his memory.
Even the President, who I find to be a very nuanced, intelligent, rational person, couldn't comprehend this just as I couldn't.
.
**
I watched the news at home all night with my son around and I probably shouldn't have but even 8 year olds should know that this is America now, I think. This wasn't a one off incident, this is now our reality, until (if ever) we decide to stand up and stop this madness. I took the advice of Mr. Rogers mother and told my son to "always look for the helpers". He watched hours of television with me yesterday, broadcasts filled with horror and unspeakable tragedy and commented that he knew kids that age. In the end, as I put him to bed last night, I asked him if he felt okay and that if maybe seeing all that had upset him, as I started to doubt my decision to expose him to that. His takeaway? He was proud of the 6 year old that burst out a classroom side door and helped some of his friends to safety, standing there waiting for all of them to exit before running himself. Bravery, my son said. And he was glad to know that somewhere, in a locked bathroom full of small students and a scared to death teacher, there was a little boy who thought (just as my son sometimes does, without any doubt) that he was a ninja and could take out the bad guys with his ninja skills.
My takeaway? Sometimes America is a mess. As a grown up, when these things happen, my brain goes to a place that tells me this country might just be a rotting cesspool and that if we don't value human life more than we do a fucking piece of metal, I should just up and move to an uninhabited island to save the little boy I'm charged with caring for from this bullshit and tragedy. And then I listen to that little boy and he reminds me, just as Fred's mother did for him, that in this country there are helpers, too. This is awful, so awful that nearly no one has the proper words because really, how can one have the words, but here there are helpers, too. If there is a God, may he bless them with serenity.posted by youandiandaflame at 6:41 AM on December 15, 2012 [35 favorites]
It's amazing to me on several levels that this well-moderated board in so many respects has a giant blind spot to the egregious, ludicrous strawmen of subsistence hunting in a thread on gun control.
Or that a personal firearm may have prevented a rape.
Guns in America are a problem in search of a solution. If America wants to talk about crippling mental illness, here's one to chew on: Your personal mythology is not a reality.posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 6:45 AM on December 15, 2012 [33 favorites]
If my little town ever has an event like this, I hope, for everyone's sake, the second thing they do in response is put up a blockade that keeps the damn media out...posted by HuronBob at 6:48 AM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
With any gun-control legislation it is worth keeping in mind that there will be abuses of whatever wording is chosen. In California for example it is not legal to have an AR-15 style rifle.
The law specifically states that a weapon cannot have a pistol grip and adjustable stock with a >10 round magazine and a quick and easy to use magazine release. This law was specifically designed to prevent people using AR style rifles for spree killing. Along comes some "clever" soul with this, essentially designed to completely bypass the law.
Because it has no AR-style pistol grip and adjustable stock you can have a quick magazine release and by purchasing pre-ban 30 round magazines you have totally skirted the law. This flagrant abuse of the spirit of the law is frankly exactly what I expect from the firearms market. "Hellfire" trigger sets and "bump-fire" stocks bypass the whole semi/fully automatic weapons issue and every word of every law is scrutinised to allow manufacturers to keep on selling weapons that allow killers to claim multiple victims.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone owning or using any hand-held firearm if the circumstances are right. If you want a WWI water-cooled Maxim machinegun then bully for you. You can buy it and own it and you can even shoot it at a controlled location. If you want to fire a submachinegun legally then cool. It's an awesome experience and genuinely great fun to do. So long as it is at a range. If, on the other hand, you think concealed carry in public is anything other than dangerous to yourself and bystanders, think again. You're not Larry Vickers and for every bullet that misses you risk killing or injuring another person. You don't want the emotional and financial trouble that will cause.posted by longbaugh at 6:49 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wonder how many of those who argue they need guns for "self-defence", consider themselves as Christians, and what they would think of somebody who, in a far more legitimate situation of self-defence than they are likely to ever find themselves, said:
"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword."posted by Skeptic at 6:50 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Sorry but prayers and giving your kids hugs fix nothing; only having the balls to stand up to our insane selfish gun culture will."
I love Bill Maher, but prayers and hugs do fix something -- they help to soothe the pain. I don't know, I'm very anti-gun, but I spent much of yesterday just crying over this tragedy and not really ready to talk about policy implications yet. (And I barely know anyone remotely connected with Newtown. What the actual residents feel, what the parents of these children feel, is too horrible for me to comprehend.)
I saw a lot of comments yesterday (mostly on my FB, not here on MetaFilter thankfully) that were extraordinarily insensitive to the fact that many people are experiencing grief over this. I think this is a mistake for those of us who want change to happen. We need to advocate for that change in a compassionate way. I know we think we're advocating for compassion itself by arguing for less gun violence, and hell, I think we're right about that. But in the immediate wake of a tragedy, we need to think twice about HOW we're saying what we're saying.
Give people room to pray and hug for a little while, at least.
(I know, I know, our national attention span is so short that we have to speak up before people forget about this, and that pretty much destroys my entire argument. Oh well.)posted by Carmelita Spats at 6:57 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's amazing to me on several levels that this well-moderated board in so many respects has a giant blind spot to the egregious, ludicrous strawmen of subsistence hunting in a thread on gun control.
I just went back and checked the mentions of subsistence hunting. There's a point to be made that a tiny subset of the US population, seemingly all of whom live in Alaska, rely on subsistence hunting, so if we try to reduce personal gun ownership drastically, we have to take these people into account. (Screw sport hunters though, even if they moan about how they eat what they kill.) But, as was pointed out way earlier, this is a solved problem from the perspective of gun control laws, in that other countries with people subsistence hunting in the Arctic have much more robust firearms legislation. (Stereotyping would suggest Russia has lax gun control laws (or poor enforcement), but no matter what they have drastically fewer guns per capita than anyone else bordering the Arctic. The US has drastically more. Norway, Sweden, Finland and Canada are all about the same.)posted by hoyland at 7:00 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
it just speaks to incredible illness.
So does this illness come from the top and go back to the takeover of the land from who was 'common law owner by possession' via guns and germs.
The nation was founded upon violence from guns.
When the leader went to go and pick up a peace prize - what was the topic of the acceptance speech?
No one, let alone an 8-year-old, should have to go through that.
Seeing those around you shot and in that din - your own life threatened? Is that the that you are speaking of?
Is leadership leading by example and not going around doing the same to other human beings on the planet?
How about this framing:
Seeing those around you shot and in that din - your own life threatened by a fellow human being?
Now HERE is where there is leadership in America - the plan seems to be to use robots with guns to do the threatening and killing.
Here is something else for ya'll to think about in the "leading by example" framing.
How many of you remember how TASERS were to be used as the alternative to deadly force in policing?
Yet the videos of handcuffed people getting TASERed show the mindset of some of those who are 'leaders' or are there to 'protect and serve' is to think "Oh hey - I could user my gun and its deadly force but instead I'll use the taser because that is the authorised alternative".
So I'm here to call for leadership from the top not by proclamation but by action.
Leadership lead by example. Show you can solve problems and address issues without violence.
(and those of you concerned about this issue, have you considered visiting your local Friends meeting house?)posted by rough ashlar at 7:01 AM on December 15, 2012
It's amazing to me on several levels that this well-moderated board in so many respects has a giant blind spot to the egregious, ludicrous strawmen of subsistence hunting in a thread on gun control.
so that's why all those people i work with take vacations in the fall for - to hunt strawmen
and to think i believed they were hunting deer - why some of them have shown me obviously fake photographs - hell, one of them even put a dead deer in the back of his pickup to fool me
i'm so gullable
well, perhaps you'd say that they don't really NEED to do that - but then, i don't know who made you the judge of what people need to do
I wonder how many of those who argue they need guns for "self-defence", consider themselves as.........
I wonder whether those who argue they need guns as "self-defence" are displaying just plain selfishness laced with arrogance and a large measure of fallacious logic.
I would like to see the percentages of those people who truly have been in situations where a gun was necessary to ensure their safety as opposed to an argument of what might happen if they did not have a gun.
I would say more, but that pie I have baking in the sky is just about done.posted by lampshade at 7:05 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
NBC is reporting this morning that the mother was not a staff member of the school, and that the school did have a security system, but that Adam Lanza shot his way in.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:07 AM on December 15, 2012
This is by no means universal. I'm in the U.S., and I don't know anyone who carries a concealed handgun (and yes, I too find it terrifying that "ordinary" people think it's ordinary).
Seconding this. I don't know anyone who carries a gun. I have a few relatives who have guns for hunting. Beyond that, I only know of one friend who keeps a gun at home for self defense. Now maybe others do and I just don't know it.
I find the idea of people walking around with guns in malls and restaurants and workplaces pretty terrifying too.posted by madamjujujive at 7:18 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Show me a country that hasn't made concessions to rightfully subsistence, or sport hunters. One country. Tell me about how you hunt deer with your glock, since that was the best and most economical way to do it, since you're so dang down on your luck.
It's a hobby. It's a persona. It's a personal mythology. It's bullshit. They haven't killed to eat for decades. That's the average NRA life member.
It has nothing to do with putting food on the table.
But this argument that there are poor people in this country who need to literally break the law by shooting deer in their own yard (discharge in an inhabited area), out of season (self explanatory), without a permit (third charge), butcher it themselves (granted, this is sometimes exempted), and store it.
And somehow all of this is magically ok and never prosecuted because the local sherriff loves poor people. This is your ideal scenario and that's why we can't ever have any gun control legislation.
That's ludicrous; and more to the point anybody offering that argument up seriously should be ashamed of their mental faculties, because that kind of propaganda is offensive and I hope you got something nice with that lobbying check.posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 7:19 AM on December 15, 2012 [19 favorites]
The police chief in Newtown just said there is evidence in the home that provides motive, but he isn't obviously at liberty to talk about it now.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:21 AM on December 15, 2012
Anyone think an age of majority for handgun ownership would be worth exploring?
Say, 25 years old to apply? At that point they can be required to take classes and be thoroughly vetted in a background check.
In Connecticut, the law prohibits transfer handguns to minors under age 21, except as authorized at firing or shooting ranges. Reportedly, the shooter was 20.
While a minimum age didn't prevent this tragedy, it doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have one.posted by radwolf76 at 7:21 AM on December 15, 2012
I know tons of "hunters."
so do i - and none of them fit the "ludicrous" description you've given them
they go out, with ordinary hunting rifles, get a deer or two, and yes, they eat the meat
i see nothing wrong with it
my mental facilities are good enough to distinguish what i see in the town around me and what i hear from ill-informed, prejudiced people with an axe to grindposted by pyramid termite at 7:34 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Just found out a college friend lost her little cousin yesterday in Newtown.
My opinions are:
1) If you are going to try to tell me a concealed carry would have saved their life, fuck you. More guns in a chaotic situation are not something I think will save lives. For every mass shooting they have prevented (have they?) there would be more they have not. Stop projecting how you could become a hero, finally getting the love and attention you are denied through your everyday life.
2) If this guy didn't have a gun, he might have done something as horrible with other means (see Bath School Disaster) but that would have taken more time, planning, and left more possibilities for discovery.
3) The more difficult it is to have a gun, the better. It is a privilege, and yes you are kicking and screaming because someone is taking something away you feel entitled to, but the writers of the constitution weren't right on everything. See 14th amendment, women's suffrage, and so on.
4) The media circus around this is going to probably cause a copy cat, or push someone contemplating this to go "I could do better, and then they would finally listen to me." Giving attention to the shooter and making this the headline of the week for the next month wont help anyone. It will re-enforce the idea that you get a lot of attention for killing people though.posted by mrzarquon at 7:38 AM on December 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
The whole hunting thing is a strawman because there are plenty of other developed nations where hunting is highly popular, and yet manage to have both much stricter gun control laws and much lower gun crime.posted by Skeptic at 7:40 AM on December 15, 2012 [16 favorites]
Behind the discussions about subsistence hunters, and people who feel that carrying a gun is necessary for their safety, or may have saved them in the past, there's a deeper point, I think: the gun control that America so desperately needs might indeed make life significantly worse for a significant number of blameless people -- and that doesn't make it wrong.
There are, of course, both moral and strategic reasons for alienating as few of those blameless people as possible (and I'm pretty sure the subsistence-hunting argument, in particular, is a strawman, easily addressed by following examples from around the world). But it isn't, in principle, a decisive argument against a policy to show that it will cause some people to suffer, whether economically, emotionally, or even in terms of their physical safety. Maybe gun control will make some blameless people less safe. It's a lesser-of-evils argument, and in terms of gun culture, there aren't many evils greater, surely, than what happened yesterday.posted by oliverburkeman at 7:45 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
my mental facilities are good enough to distinguish what i see in the town around me and what i hear from ill-informed, prejudiced people with an axe to grind
I believe Hobo was saying the same thing - that there is a difference between the people you see around you and the people who do behave in the way Hobo is describing.
So the question becomes - how do we preserve the rights of the people you know, while restricting the people hobo is talking about? Because as you have pointed out, those are two VERY different people, but the people Hobo is talking about are claiming to be the SAME as the people you know.
Perhaps the hunters you know could speak up about the "hunters" Hobo is talking about, to differentiate themselves from them. Becuase right now the gun argument is being dominated by the "Hunters" hobo is talking about.posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:46 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm really sorry for the pre-coffee cynicism this morning, but how many kids have been shot in Chicago this year? The pornographic quality of the coverage in Connecticut is unbelievably upsetting to me. I can't even imagine what it must be like to have lost a son or daughter and be caught up in this mess.posted by phaedon at 7:50 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
that's a fair point, empress - but i would also like to say that over-the-top descriptions such as hobo's are part of what feeds the paranoia some gun owners feel towards the government or "liberals"
that makes it part of the problem, not part of the solution
i certainly don't see why anyone needs a gun with a 30 round magazine, for example - if someone needs that many shots to get a deer, they shouldn't be huntingposted by pyramid termite at 7:54 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wonder if the prevailing strand of NRA-driven rhetoric has met the point where it lapses into obvious logical absurdity. Arm teachers, have a loaded gun on every desk, start issuing little kevlar vests for kids? (Which, of course, they'd grow out of every year, but if you're a gun-industry shill, that's a feature not a bug.) Really, you're going to make that case, and expect us not to laugh you out of the room?
When a line of argument gets that unstable, to fail to question the premise it's built upon is itself an absurdity. When rights become implicit compulsions, they cease to be rights.posted by holgate at 7:55 AM on December 15, 2012
Oh yeah, and
5) Why do you need to have a gun to feel safe? What are the major causes of crime for which you might want to have a gun to protect yourself?
Drugs - Legalize them, its a health issue, not a legal one.
Poverty - "Fuck you, got mine" isn't an enduring social contract. Ensuring your neighbors, and your neighbor's neighbor's can feed themselves, clothe themselves, hope their kids will be safe just as yours will make your kids safe as well.
Mental Health - Comprehensive healthcare, especially for those who cannot help themselves, means providing mental healthcare. This ensures people get the care that they need, and helps them stay in stable areas.
Racism - It is a multiplier effect of all of the above issues, since the system has been stacked historically against minorities, and there are systemic changes that still need to happen.
So thats why people feel they need guns. To feel safe. What is broken in our society that we can't feel safe? Combine the above with 24x7 media saturation that thrives off the terror they manage to cultivate on their own now, and you have this wonderful cycle of isolationism, distrust, and fear.posted by mrzarquon at 7:56 AM on December 15, 2012 [25 favorites]
I don't think it's cynical to point a finger at the coverage. I know about a kid in Philly who was shot last year over the right over his corner where he sold loose cigarettes.
On the one hand, that family was given more or less the right to grieve privately, because nobody cared. On the other hand, nobody gave the support to that family that they almost certainly needed during their time of grief. One benefit, I suppose, of this gawkerism is that the families will be given support. On the other hand, if I am wanting to dick-punch the media right now, those poor parents.posted by angrycat at 8:01 AM on December 15, 2012
Ok, we've gone too many comments without a mention of mental health.
Gun control is only part of the problem.
The US needs to spend more money on mental health care. there is really no good argument for why we aren't. Don't let your conversations about what happened in CT end without mentioning this.
posted by victory_laser at 3:07 AM on December 15 [1 favorite +] [!]
Look. We have affordable and/or free mental health care in the USA. It's there for anyone that needs it. We have a whole organization set up to help people find the psych care they need NAMI no matter what their socioeconomic standing is. I can only speak from personal experience, but I've used mental health care clinics in several states across the country and they are separate from physical health care clinics... One does not need any kind of insurance to use them. Period. Some of the ones I've used are linked with city's drug and alcohol rehabilitation clinics because many undiagnosed people tend to self-medicate that way (I've never had to use that aspect of these clinics, thank goodness). Most of these clinics are very affordable or free to anyone who needs them. Psych med companies will often offer their medications free to patients if they can't afford them because they're damned expensive (one of mine costs upwards to $300 a month). This service has nothing to do with federal funding. It comes from the psych med companies themselves. Why? Because no one wants unmedicated crazy people walking the streets.
As I mentioned upthread. All of this is available to anyone who looks for it. The people who go about doing unspeakable things are those who are undiagnosed, newly snapped, refuse treatment, or refuse to acknowledge that anything is amiss in their minds.
I also mentioned upthread that just because one is mentally interesting doesn't mean they are going to snap and take a gun to a room full of people, young or old. I have bipolar. That doesn't make me a potential murderer. It makes me a little wacky compared to "normal" people, which is why I take medication to cope with the really real world. However, even in my darkest moment of paranoid mania the thought of hurting anyone would never cross my mind. Hiding in the closet so "they" can't see me might, but killing "them"? Not gonna happen. It's not in my nature. We're not all a psychotic ball of violence about to explode. Actually, I'm pretty sure that the majority of us aren't. But that's just my experience. Take it for what it's worth.posted by patheral at 8:01 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Alternet: Your thesis that these rage murders are effectively failed slave rebellions takes you back in your book to consider in some depth the circumstances of slave rebellions in the antebellum South. At what point did the parallels start to dawn on you?
Ames: I really started with the idea that in every age, there is some awful oppression that is not yet recognized and therefore doesn't exist, but later seems horribly obvious. This became clear to me working in Moscow in the '90s. No one in the "liberal" Western press corps, academia, world financial aid organizations or Clinton Administration had a shred of sympathy for the millions of Russians suffering from so-called "privatization" programs that we rammed down their throats. Literally millions of Russians went to their graves early in the '90s, yet many respectable Westerners openly said that the old generation would "have to die off" before the proper mindset set in to allow full Westernization in Russia.
Those millions of deaths are still not seen as part of something larger and evil. Later I looked at the details of these American rage murders -- they were all similar, mostly normal Middle Americans attacking seemingly "at random." If they weren't psychopaths, which they aren't, then that meant their attacks were very deliberate, that they were attacking something as a response. That's when I decided that it was the culture which was viewing the murders "at random," the culture which refused to see the purpose.
I simply assumed, from experience in Russia, and from looking at modern rage rebellions, that early slave rebellions would be completely misunderstood in their day as random acts of crazed evil just as modern "rage rebellions" are, and from the evidence I uncovered, it seems they were.
Alternet: How much blame do you place on Reaganomics for the changes in the workplace that you argue lead to rage attacks?
Ames: Put it this way: rage murders in the workplace never existed anywhere in history until Reagan came to power. Reagan made it respectable to be a mean, stupid bastard in this country. He is the patron saint of white suckers. He unleashed America's Heart of Vileness -- its penchant for hating people who didn't get rich, and worshipping people who despise them, and this is the essence of Reaganomics.
I hate to sound like a Clintonite here, but let's remember Hillary Clinton became the most hated human being alive because she tried to give most Americans the opportunity to lead longer, healthier lives, while these same Americans adored goons like Sam Walton, George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump -- everyone who has dedicated their lives to transferring wealth, health and pleasure from the masses to a tiny elite. Liberals are hated in America precisely because they want to help people, which is seen as "patronizing."
You can see how this kind of cultural insanity, unleashed by Reaganomics after decades of New Deal (relative) harmony, could make someone snap, when the cognitive dissonance suddenly strikes on a very personal level, and you realize that you've been screwed hard by your own dominant ideology.
Alternet:You demonstrate that there is absolutely zero accuracy in the psychological profiles that "experts" have assembled to predict what kind of young student might start another Columbine, and you instead advocate profiling schools that could prompt a deadly massacre. What are some of the tell-tale signs to look for?
Ames: White kids. Just look for white kids, and you'll have a potential Columbine. When I said that the school should be profiled rather than the kid (since the Secret Service and FBI have both concluded no profile of a Columbiner is possible), I meant something larger than just the school campus -- I meant the entire culture. Our culture today is completely insane, the disconnect between how our propaganda says our lives are, and how our lives actually are. And let's face it, white middle-class kids are far more deeply invested in the dominant cultural lies, and therefore more easily destroyed by the rupture when those lies become untenable, than minority urban kids are.
5) Why do you need to have a gun to feel safe? What are the major causes of crime for which you might want to have a gun to protect yourself?
I have considered owning a gun for safety reasons. Such a gun would be illegal where I live in Chicago, which has strict gun control. But honestly, I'm a tiny woman and I live alone. There is tons of gun violence in Chicago, even in "nice" neighborhoods. It's usually gang members killing gang members, but lately in my neighborhood there has been a spate of unusually violent muggings. Usually you give up your purse and they run away. But these people gave up their violence and were shot. That is freaking scary. Guns are pretty much banned here but you hear gun fire. Ramn Emmanuel is cutting police services in my neighborhood. The local station is closing. You feel powerless, like laws can't do anything to stop and no one will protect you. Carrying a gun seems better than nothing sometimes, even with the knowledge that it might not save you. This is what living with empty un-enforced gun control rhetoric is like. Is it gun control to ban something but not actively hunt down and extricate the problem? Or would the devolve to the "police state" of NYC, which honestly is a much safer nicer place in general to live than Chicago despite some of the issues there. I love Chicago and I don't want to live, but sometimes I think I might have to.
Ironically when I lived in NYC I wanted to learn how to hunt because I wanted to be able to be more accountable for where my food came from. NYC compared to Chicago is a hunter's paradise. It's a bit expensive and a process to get a rifle there, but that's not a bad thing. And once you do, there is a shooting range in Manhattan and one in Downtown Brooklyn. I spend part of my time in rural areas so it's a useful skill for me to practice. I've had to kill coyotes raiding chicken coops for example.
Chicago on the other hand, you have to drive to be able to do those things. Chicago's gun control is all about rhetoric, it's the kind that anti gun control people love, because it's not backed up by rule of law and makes things difficult for sports shooters and hunters, but doesn't seem to have an impact on the murder culture here. NYC isn't perfect, but it looks a lot more like what logical gun control might look like.posted by melissam at 8:08 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
>Why? Because no one wants unmedicated crazy people walking the streets.
Then why are there unmedicated crazy people walking the streets. You know, a good majority of the homeless population suffer from some sort of mental disorder, PTSD or Schizophrenia.
So maybe there are free services, but there appears to be a lack of coverage, support, and access for the people who need to get them, so that should be looked at. It is a systemic issue, you can't just point to "this group does free mental health care, if you can find it" and say the problem is solved.posted by mrzarquon at 8:08 AM on December 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm really sorry for the pre-coffee cynicism this morning, but how many kids have been shot in Chicago this year?
I get what you're saying here but frankly it's the age and number of kids killed in one single instance. Individual deaths here and there are unfortunately common enough not to garner media attention. Multiple deaths over a year fade into abstraction. 20+ people killed in one go is going to be a big thing simply because it's out of the "ordinary".
Hopefully the shock of the latter will cause changes which in turn will reduce the individual deaths too, although these are more likely related to illegal firearms which is a whole different kettle of fish.posted by longbaugh at 8:11 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Look. We have affordable and/or free mental health care in the USA. It's there for anyone that needs it.
Uh, no, and I know of what I speak. Interventions happen late, the crisis management infrastructure is overstretched, and you'll find more state resources deployed within the prison system than outside it.
But you're right that it's a horrible conflation. The severely mentally ill, even those who meet the standard criteria of "danger to self or to others" for commitment, are mostly not mass murderers in waiting, and talking about mental health in this context feels like the learned helplessness of not being able to talk about bloody holy sainted guns.posted by holgate at 8:16 AM on December 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
So maybe there are free services, but there appears to be a lack of coverage, support, and access for the people who need to get them, so that should be looked at. It is a systemic issue, you can't just point to "this group does free mental health care, if you can find it" and say the problem is solved.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:08 AM on December 15 [+] [!]
I didn't say that. I said that every city I've lived in offers mental health services through the city. Every city and every state, and I've lived in many cities and several states. All I had to do was look in the phone book or online and find the city's mental health clinic. NAMI is an organization that makes it easier to find alternatives.
That's not "this group" That's nationwide. I can go to any state's website and type "mental health" and I can pretty much find a mental health clinic. All I have to do is look. All anyone has to do is look. That's my point. The crazy people walking the streets are those who either refuse services or don't where to look. Do you propose that we round them up and FORCE them into treatment? That violates their civil rights.posted by patheral at 8:16 AM on December 15, 2012
patheral, I'm glad that you had an easy time accessing mental health services, but I know people who have had a terrible time trying to get mental health services. I think this may be something where people's experience varies a lot.posted by LobsterMitten at 8:20 AM on December 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
Good Lord, mental health treatment is not easy to come by in the U.S. Anybody who says that, I can't believe they live in a major urban area, where interactions with the homeless mentally ill, are common.
I had a habit, when I was lawyering, of suing the agency in NYC designed to intervene in cases where people couldn't take care of their basic needs. Because the agency would duck out of its legally mandated responsibilities with many excuses that would have been funny if they weren't enraging.
This agency got established as IRC after a mentally ill homeless woman froze to death during the '80s. Prior to that she had a bad habit of flinging excrement onto passing cars, but the city was like, /shrug. So then they created this agency. Which regularly fails to intervene when it should.posted by angrycat at 8:22 AM on December 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
I work with a guy who has a concealed carry gun license. He made sure to tell me, as a new employee, that he left his gun in the car when at work.
He's a normal looking, sad-sack kind of fellow. Not in good health. I don't know what his aim is like, but I have to wonder about his reflexes during, say, a mugging or carjacking or home invasion, which I assume is his fear.
He lives in a nicer part of town than I do, extremely low crime rate, and so I find his need to carry strange and confusing. He's also kind of depressive...while I can't imagine him taking us out at work, I can imagine him doing himself in. He'd be the third person I know who's done so with a gun.
I can understand the thrill of hunting or shooting at the shooting range, but having guns around you all the time? No, I don't get it. I wouldn't feel safer. I'm not really convinced I would be safer.posted by emjaybee at 8:24 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, health insurance often puts a limit on how many times you can see a therapist before the money runs out.posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
patheral, I'm glad that you had an easy time accessing mental health services, but I know people who have had a terrible time trying to get mental health services. I think this may be something where people's experience varies a lot.
I'm one of them. About four years ago I was chronically ill with a severe digestive disorder, severely depressed, and low income for a time and I was referred via a crisis line to Sunset Park Family Health Center in Brooklyn. I was able to get an "intake" appointment for a few weeks later. At the intake appointment I waited an hour and a half (good thing I was already unemployed) and then I talked not to a psychologist, but to a bureaucrat in a small windowless room who took my basic info and explained the process to me. She explained I would have another intake appointment and they I would get assigned a mental health professional. If I missed any appointments I would be forced back to the beginning of the process, to the room we were sitting now. A few weeks later I had my second intake appointment, again I did not get to see a mental health professional. Then my illness flared up again and I missed my next appointment because I was lying on a floor in horrible pain. They said I had to go back to the beginning of the process even though I got a doctor's note. I also got a bill for the missed appointment. It was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. Anyone who says getting help is easy either got lucky or had a different kind of mental health problem that allowed them to still be able to persevere in the face of depressing circumstances and navigate bureaucracy.posted by melissam at 8:27 AM on December 15, 2012 [38 favorites]
patheral, I'm glad that you had an easy time accessing mental health services, but I know people who have had a terrible time trying to get mental health services. I think this may be something where people's experience varies a lot.
Indeed. My wife works in a pediatric ER and they have to find adolescent psych placement on a pretty regular basis. They often end up transporting to other states.posted by werkzeuger at 8:28 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
I would imagine that a gun would be the worst self-defense tool you could carry around, simply because it's designed to kill, or at the very least, permanently damage someone. Instantaneously.
The reason why a handgun is a poor self-defense tool is that it isn't designed to kill instantaneously.
Upthread, people were discussing the recent Empire State Building police-shooting casualties. There are a couple interlocking reasons why things like that happen. First, combat accuracy (as opposed to shooting in a designated lane at a firing range) is notoriously bad. According to the most often-cited statistics, you have roughly a one-in-three chance of hitting your target inside three yards. Those odds drop precipitously with increased distance. Handguns aren't designed for pinpoint accuracy, and humans' stress reactions wreak a lot of havoc.
Second, when police open fire, they tend to fire lots of bullets. Why? Well, partly because they know about those accuracy statistics. They have a low chance of hitting, per bullet, so they fire more bullets—because if you have fired the first, then presumably you need to hit. (Eg, to stop a target from shooting at kids.) But primarily, they fire a lot of bullets because handgun ammunition isn't terribly effective for police (and self-defense) purposes.
If a police officer opens fire, or if you open fire in self defense, the goal isn't to kill. The goal is immediate incapacitation: Stop the target from doing whatever he's doing (eg, shooting at kids). There are two ways to do this. The first is to strike the central nervous system. Handgun accuracy makes this unrealistic, so forget about it. This is why you hear about being trained to aim at "center of mass." The second is to disrupt the circulatory system, dropping blood pressure sufficiently to incapacitate. In other words, shoot enough holes until the person has lost so much blood that he can't function.
Bullet impact is negligible. When people "fall down" upon being shot, that's mostly a psychological reaction caused largely by watching television shows and movies where we see people collapse when shot. The impact of a 9mm bullet is roughly equivalent to having a ten-pound weight dropped on you...from less than one inch. You cannot reliably knock somebody down with a handgun. So we're back to one solution: Drop the blood pressure sufficiently to incapacitate.
That's why police using handguns shoot lots of bullets. They are trying to hit their target and create lots of holes. They aren't trying to "kill" the target, although that will probably be a consequence; they are trying to stop him/her from doing something, using a tool that is not especially suited. In fact, even if you are able to "kill" the person by instantly destroying the heart, there may be enough residual oxygen in the brain to support another ten or fifteen seconds of action. You still have not necessarily incapacitated him (ie, stopped him from shooting at kids).
All of this, by the way, is also why you see police officers respond to violent incidents armed with assault rifles. Because if we know that handguns perform poorly compared to rifles in a combat situation, then we also know police do not want to respond to a combat situation with a handgun if possible. Without a moment's notice, an officer may have a handgun and may not be wearing protection. Similarly, a firefighter without notice might run into a burning house without a breathing apparatus or turnout gear. But it isn't ideal, and with a moment's preparation he will retrieve appropriate equipment.
So to return to your point. What you want in a self-defense tool is the ability to immediately incapacitate an attacker. Handguns are designed, and not especially well, to punch holes in things. Those two things are not the same.posted by cribcage at 8:28 AM on December 15, 2012 [27 favorites]
Okay, maybe it's because I have lived in mostly suburban areas, Seattle being the most populated, that my experience has been so easy. I'm sorry that others have suffered. As I mentioned, I can only speak from my experience. I haven't had health insurance in decades, so I don't know what kind of limits that puts on therapy. My kind of mental is brain chemistry, so I take medication - no therapy needed.
But I still stand by the statement that just because someone is mentally interesting DOES NOT make that person a mass murderer, or any kind of murderer. Ordinary people can snap and do unspeakable things. They're not in their right mind at the time they do these things. That doesn't make them mentally ill, that makes them ordinary people who snapped and did something they normally wouldn't have done. Someone who is diagnosed with a mental disorder can lead a "normal" life and never kill anything larger than a cockroach. I'm honestly tired of these mass murderers being labeled as "mentally ill" when they're probably not. It gives the rest of us a bad name.posted by patheral at 8:30 AM on December 15, 2012
If anything just further emblematic of the difficulty and sketchiness of reporting unvetted details on a chaotic breaking story is the apparently major-news-org ambiguity on whether Nancy Lanza was a teacher at the school or maybe a substitute teacher there or may not a teacher there or maybe who fucking knows but let's get it in print either way, chop chop.posted by cortex at 8:31 AM on December 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
The reason I admire and respect avenues like The Onion so much in these situations is because I think they truly are the only ones doing what needs to be done to change the culture here.
What those stories at the Onion do is break down that mentality issue to its core level. That's really the only hope we have. People both for and against gun control are right: this will never be fixed by legislation alone. Instead, gun ownership as a culture- as a state of mind- has to be broken. And like smoking or drinking or beating women or racism or homophobia, legislation can and will come, but at the end of the day it's about turning people around to realizing the selfishness of their mentality.
A major problem in the whole discussion seems to be a real difficulty thinking about different types of guns and/or gun features. If we get more specific about guns and features of guns, it gets a lot easier to balance the concerns raised about hunting and self-defense. Getting specific about types of guns and features would also make it easier to pass federal legislation, which could then be amended/supplemented to address other issues over time. It is a big mistake to waste time arguing about "gun culture" or whether hunters really need to hunt - the fact is that there are a lot of people in the country who support some form of "gun rights" - you aren't going to get any real-world change in the law if you don't try to accommodate the concerns of those people.
So what kind of specific distinctions can be drawn that would help pass targeted legislation?
2. Distinguish between long guns and handguns. Hunters do not use handguns. Waive hello to the hunters and tell them you aren't going to touch their hunting rifles. Then increase the background checks/licensing/safety regulation around handguns. Close all "gun show loophole"-type issues that allow handguns to be transferred without checks.
3. As far as trying to distinguish between different types of long guns, I am less certain. Shotguns versus rifles is easy (and none of these killers seem to pick shotguns), but then it gets hard. As many have discussed, you can use the same caliber round in a "hunting" gun or an "assault" gun. Much of what we think of with "assault" guns is cosmetics - it just looks like a military weapon. Limiting magazine capacity would perhaps accomplish everything you would need to do with respect to "assault guns." But - there is clearly something about these military-like guns that attracts these mass murders, so I am not completely prepared to say that the law should be blind to the fact that insane killers seem to prefer a specific type of weapon, even if the "type" is largely cosmetic.
Other random thoughts:
A. I thought there was this whole thing about the Colorado shooting about not publicizing the killer's name? What happened to that? The NY Times today has a list of like the "20 biggest shootings" or whatever, with each killer's name. It looks like a hall of fame.
B. Further to my comment up-thread about the paramilitary cops - I don't mean to blame these particular cops and we don't yet know the timing of how long the killer had to shoot before the police arrived. Still, is there any case in which these SWAT-style teams have been effective in a mass shooting? It seems like the name of the game in a mass shooting is to get any cop on the scene as fast as possible. If nothing else, the big SWAT team standing around looks like a waste of resources versus other things that could be done to speed overall police response. I blame 9/11 thinking.posted by Mid at 8:44 AM on December 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
I live in Connecticut. I grew up in the area in which this happened. I'm someone's mom. I spent most of yesterday crying my face off and I thought I'd do a little bit better today. But I'm weeping again because here, I'm finding a quality in conversation I'm not finding in many other places: compassion. I'm grateful that amid all the debate and speculation and calls for action, there's a general concern for the well-being of fellow participants. It's difficult to visit anywhere else on the net right now.posted by houseofdanie at 8:55 AM on December 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
It doesn't change the fact that working class people who have to get to work on the swing shift in Oakland have to choose between risking a misdemeanor if they get caught with a concealed firearm, or getting robbed or killed in the street. That's reality here.
Bullshit. I live in Oakland and run around on the streets all night. I have never felt the need for a gun. But my hick bretheren in Reno NV where I moved from all think guns r cool. They are idiots.posted by telstar at 8:59 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
2. Distinguish between long guns and handguns. Hunters do not use handguns.
Most hunters I know will pack a magnum revolver in case of bear. They don't carry high capacity small calibre pistols as this would simply irritate the bear. Otherwise, agreed.
3. As far as trying to distinguish between different types of long guns, I am less certain. Shotguns versus rifles is easy (and none of these killers seem to pick shotguns),
The Denver shooter had a shotgun iirc. A semiautomatic shotgun with an extended tube can put out as much lead in a few seconds as 4 magazines from a high capacity handgun.
...But - there is clearly something about these military-like guns that attracts these mass murders, so I am not completely prepared to say that the law should be blind to the fact that insane killers seem to prefer a specific type of weapon, even if the "type" is largely cosmetic...
This, in my opinion, most often relates to the "Walter Mitty" military fetishist. .
Further to my comment up-thread about the paramilitary cops - I don't mean to blame these particular cops and we don't yet know the timing of how long the killer had to shoot before the police arrived. Still, is there any case in which these SWAT-style teams have been effective in a mass shooting?
This will depend on whether there is a standing emergency response team or whether full time officers are pulled off duty to perform the role. As a general rule as soon as the call goes out each individual officer serving on an emergency team will make their way as quickly as possible to the area and get prepped once there. Kit will be in the officers vehicle or in a team vehicle. Emergency response teams are not usually going to arrive in time unless the situation has become one involving hostages.
It seems like the name of the game in a mass shooting is to get any cop on the scene as fast as possible. If nothing else, the big SWAT team standing around looks like a waste of resources versus other things that could be done to speed overall police response. I blame 9/11 thinking.
When they first arrive they know nothing. How many shooters, IEDs, hostages, who is inside or outside the building. Cordons are set up and then intelligence gathered. Running in blindly results in dead police officers and civilians.posted by longbaugh at 9:04 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Every illegal weapon was a legal weapon once, before it was stolen, or "borrowed", or driven across a state line.
we don't yet know the timing of how long the killer had to shoot before the police arrived.
Well, in fairness to law enforcement, unloading a couple of handguns would happen in a far shorter period of time than would be the time needed for assistance to arrive.
This guy was on a mission - a horribly misguided one - but he went to that school with at least some idea of what he wanted to do. Had maybe a single police officer been in the area right at the time of the first call, gotten into the school and gone to exactly the place where the shooter was at, then maybe there would have been a chance. But the shooter murdered too quickly for that to happen apparently and that lucky chance a cop was in the area was not to be had.
When I took the test to be able to purchase a handgun the gunshop owner who was administrating the test stood over my shoulder and gave me the answers. I didn't ask him to. I had studied and knew the answers but I guess he was in a hurry or something. A, B, B, A, C, D, A. Okay let me sign it.
When I took my gun to the range and the employee inspected it and found I had a trigger lock on it (which is the law here, when transporting firearms they must have a trigger lock) he said "What the fuck? How're you gonna use it?"
It's pretty apparent to me that gun laws are like traffic laws. They don't pertain to me because I am a good driver/citizen. I have never been in an accident so I can go 80 in a 65. I am good at multi tasking so I can totally text and drive.posted by M Edward at 9:08 AM on December 15, 2012 [30 favorites]
There are many gun murders every day in this country that would not be described by most people as "massacres." Are those not worth dealing with?
It's preposterous to say that we should focus only on mass shootings, or that sensible gun control cannot be part of the solution to not only the "massacre" problem but the "guns killing dozens of Americans every day" problem.posted by tonycpsu at 9:12 AM on December 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
As far as access to mental health care, North Carolina is all fuxxored up, and in this town at least (shortage of shrinks) people have to wait weeks and sometimes months for treatment EVEN IF THEY HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE.
On a totally different note, I know most of you don't watch Fox News, and I don't have cable but I do have a Roku box that allowed me to access some of the news reports from yesterday....all I can say is, Geraldo Rivera? Really, dude?posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:14 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
tonycpsu : In that case... what
In practice, open carry doesn't mean some wild-west scene of walking into the saloon with a six-shooter at your side. It means people without a CCW or a hunting license can defend themselves while hiking and a rabid wombat takes an interest in them.
robcorr : Outside of war zones, no where else in the world do people feel the need to carry a gun for self-defence while running errands. Truly, America is a land of paranoid freaks.
No, "America is a land" with an average population density of 100 people per square mile - Except, in practice, around 90% of that gets squeezed into a few dozen major cities and their surrounding 'burbs, leaving most of America (geographically) a literal "wilderness".
That said, if you want paranoid - Yeah, I'd take my chances with that rabid wombat, over most urban environments once you get 10 feet past the bright lights and bustling crowds.
Admira : but people actually walk around carrying guns? I mean other than police and FBI etc... but just ordinary people like me wake up, get ready and carry a gun with them? To the shops, to parties, to a bar etc?
Since you've already gotten conflicting answers, yes and no.
Most US states have a means by which you can apply for a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Some but not all states have a "must issue" requirement, meaning that if federal regulations don't bar the applicant from owning a firearm, the state must issue a CCW permit to the applicant. Somewhere around 20 states (last time I looked) have reciprocity agreements for carry permits (including my own).
That said, don't think that works like filling out a postcard-sized magazine subscription. Even in my fairly lax state, the application runs on for seven pages, and the state does a complete criminal and mental health background check on the applicant. On top of that, you need to renew it annually (renewal takes less time, but uses the same insanely detailed application).
As for where you can carry - Bars count as an absolute no-no. Federal buildings, no. A handful of other "sensitive" places, also not allowed (that includes schools).
Now, Tony already posted a link to it above, but many states also have some form of "open carry". See my response to him at the top of this post, but don't think of it as Clint Eastwood walking through town - It more means that you won't get arrested for mere possession of a gun in a public place; so you can have a rifle-rack in your truck; you can keep a pistol in your glove compartment. And yes, you can actually wear one as a sidearm - But! "Brandishing" will still get you at the very least harassed by the police, and possibly arrested. What counts as brandishing varies a lot by context, but suffice it to say, walking down main street with a shotgun strapped across your back will get unwanted attention in all but the most rural towns.
Would have no effect - You can swap a magazine in about two seconds flat. And the idea of "high capacity" magazines doesn't even really apply to pistols - Yes, you can get them, but they look stupid and make the gun totally unmanageable.
Hunters do not use handguns.
Sure they do - For putting a slowly-dying animal out of its misery. You don't fire a rifle at point-blank range unless you want to wear a cloud of gore. Many states' hunting licenses explicitly limit what types and how many guns you can carry when hunting (including how many spare rounds), and particularly with bigger game, you'll frequently see an allowance for a side-arm for the coup de grace.
I agree with your third point, however. Even at the height of the "assault rifle" ban, you could still get basically the same weapons legally, more a matter of fashion than practicality. And I have no interest in fashion in this regard (hell, I'd like to see 9mm all but cease to exist - It seems like every wannabe gang-banger fantasizes about that one for some incomprehensible reason). That said, it becomes an awfully slippery slope when we start banning pink hammers.
Okay, this post has gotten much too long. And please, don't take this as "fighty" - I have no interest in arguing in a thread about dead kids. I just wanted to clarify a few points of confusion people seem to have.posted by pla at 9:15 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Makes me think that the kind of security they had at the "bad school" I attended in 8th grade, metal-detectors and security guards, will become standard even at "nice" schools.posted by melissam at 9:16 AM on December 15, 2012
pla, I wasn't confused at all about open carry. The statement was that people don't do open carry in the U.S., and it turns out that some, in fact, do.posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 AM on December 15, 2012
If a police officer opens fire, or if you open fire in self defense, the goal isn't to kill. The goal is immediate incapacitation: Stop the target from doing whatever he's doing (eg, shooting at kids).
Yes, but for the police, shooting for 'incapacitation' is pretty much de facto shooting to kill.
For some reason lost to the stands of time, where I grew up, the police range was at one point in the basement of the high school. As a result, my high school had a tradition of exposing kids to guns in the outdoor ed class (which was the cool gym class). When I took outdoor ed, this meant turning the wrestling room back into a shooting range for air rifles (with much admonition to not shoot the mats) and an after school field trip to the police range, which was actually in the police station, taking the .22s which the school still owned for some reason (I think outdoor ed used them when the range was in the school, though the yearbook also shows there was a rifle club at some point). The memorable things were the cop we were with explicitly stating that 'incapacitation' meant shooting to kill and that he had no qualms about killing someone, criminal or bystander (I'm still hoping was in denial about the possibility), and firing his handgun. I'd shot a rifle before and didn't have particular qualms about doing so (though the total comfort my classmates had with shooting at humanoid targets made me pause), but I'd never touched a handgun. And I'm never going to again. It seemed so clear that the thing was all about power, particularly power derived from the ability to kill.
I still feel kind of gross about that trip to the police range. The whole time we were there, it was becoming increasingly apparent to me that this was something I shouldn't be doing, even if I enjoyed shooting. I'd refused to shoot at humanoid targets (which are all the police had) and found some old bullseye targets at the bottom of a rifle box, but with everyone around me gleefully shooting the 'bad guys' it was clear this was just some lame attempt to make myself feel better about pretending something that was really about killing was 'sport'.posted by hoyland at 9:18 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Pla - Loughner was stopped when changing magazines. The idea isn't that banning high-capacity would stop all killings, but it would make guns incrementally less easy to use in mass killings.posted by Mid at 9:22 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
No, "America is a land" with an average population density of 100 people per square mile - Except, in practice, around 90% of that gets squeezed into a few dozen major cities and their surrounding 'burbs, leaving most of America (geographically) a literal "wilderness".
And there's the rub, when you have a political system that is explicitly weighted towards giving representation to square footage over people, combined with a fetishism for a faded old founding document and a largely obsolescent model of pioneer liberty. It allows gun extremists to hold democracy to ransom.posted by holgate at 9:23 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
In practice, open carry doesn't mean some wild-west scene of walking into the saloon with a six-shooter at your side.
Uh, yeah it does. I was in Phoenix a few months ago for 2 weeks and in every restaurant and store I went into there was at least 1 person with a sidearm. Maybe I was in the bad part of town or something but it was still unnerving for me.posted by M Edward at 9:23 AM on December 15, 2012
I don't know, just don't know. Why this happens, how to prevent it or the best steps to take, going forward. Not having the judicial, legal and political system so beholden to the NRA and its members is a no brainer, but also extremely difficult.
Ah hell, I do know something. Another massacre like this will occur in America.posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:26 AM on December 15, 2012
I think it's reasonable to notice that, for the shooter, this was both a school AND a workplace shooting. Internet diagnosing someone whose motives are fairly complex and bound to social situations and power dynamics we know nothing about seems a bit naive. It's questionable whether free mental health Switzerland style could have prevented his scheme, or if banning all pistols would satisfactorily address the underlying issue. We've always been armed to the teeth, but these massacres are only about thirty years old.
Structurally we have a big problem with banning the types of firearms that are used in these shootings. Everybody owns them. Disarming the American populace, even if half of us unanimously supported it, is a big, scary prospect. Waco happened. Ruby ridge happened. There are hundreds of thousands who are either sympathizers or fellow travelers of those folks. If you come for their guns... well. They aren't kidding.posted by clarknova at 9:28 AM on December 15, 2012
Gun culture varies so much according to the region of the country you are in. I almost feel it would be helpful when we have these kinds of discussions to make plain where we are from. Guns in Phoenix would make me yawn, guns in, say, New England would make me a bit jittery.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:29 AM on December 15, 2012
Also - pla, you say "the idea of "high capacity" magazines doesn't even really apply to pistols," but my statement is not limited to pistols.
Also, also - Loughner had a 30-round clip in his Glock. Again, he was stopped when it ran out. Would have been better if it was a smaller clip.
The guy in Colorado had a 100-round clip in his .223 that jammed.posted by Mid at 9:30 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's called a magazine, not a clip. If you want anyone who actually owns one of those to take you seriously, and maybe you don't care, use that term.posted by clarknova at 9:33 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
When I took the test to be able to purchase a handgun the gunshop owner who was administrating the test stood over my shoulder and gave me the answers. I didn't ask him to.
In Massachusetts, you need to pass a basic safety class in order to own a firearm. Theoretically it is supposed to be the same class no matter where in the state you take it, as long as you're taking it from a certified instructor. That's theory. Reality is a little bit different.
Here is one extremely reputable training center where the class is a full day, and here is a different, also reputable training center where the class is only four hours. Now both of those classes include live-fire shooting; you will fire a handgun before receiving your certificate. For comparison, here is a partial list of other training centers and instructors offering the class, some of whom will come to your home and administer the class in your living room. Obviously this does not include live fire.
I am extremely skeptical that either of those first two training centers would "coach" somebody on passing the course. (Not that "passing" is really an issue. The point of the class is the experience, not the quiz.) And I would like to think that no certified instructor would do that either. However, I'm not naive and it's hard for me to speculate about what happens between you and somebody you've paid to sit in your living room on a weeknight.posted by cribcage at 9:33 AM on December 15, 2012
While growing up in the nation's capital, we had two mass sniper events and corresponding lockdowns as well as a guy killed by a cop in the alley out back, on top of the normal sorts of gun violence like muggings and so forth. The absolute last thing that would make me feel safe are additional guns in houses and on the streets. DC doesn't need more guns. Philly sure doesn't. A . for all those kids and their families and the adults who died and the kids who lived through this.posted by jetlagaddict at 9:38 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Structurally we have a big problem with banning the types of firearms that are used in these shootings. Everybody owns them.
"A study published in the Injury Prevention Journal, based on a 2004 National Firearms Survey, found that 20% of the gun owners with the most firearms possessed about 65% of the nation's guns."
It's called a magazine, not a clip. If you want anyone who actually owns those to take you seriously, and maybe you don't, use that term.
I want people who own these guns to take me seriously because dead goddamned kids. Nitpicking the exact terminology is bullshit.posted by soundguy99 at 9:39 AM on December 15, 2012 [60 favorites]
In Massachusetts, you need to pass a basic safety class in order to own a firearm. Theoretically it is supposed to be the same class no matter where in the state you take it, as long as you're taking it from a certified instructor. That's theory. Reality is a little bit different.
That is how it should be everywhere, and for real. You'd (well maybe not you specifically) be surprised how many people who take firearm training at a young age look up to firearm instructors as role models, and accept both the value of "don't be unsafe with the weapon" and its underlying premise "life is precious". That lesson in morality and mortality from an adult, often a veteran, goes a long way.
That's another aspect our gun culture that's never talked about. Firearm training is a positive social experience for a lot of people, especially young people.posted by clarknova at 9:39 AM on December 15, 2012
Structurally we have a big problem with banning the types of firearms that are used in these shootings. Everybody owns them.
This is not true. A third of US households have a gun. Something like just over 40% of adults own a gun--a third of men and about 10 percent of women. (Clearly gun-owning women are frequently living with gun-owning men.) The reason we have so many guns per capita is not that everyone has a gun, it's that a subset of people could each arm a small army.posted by hoyland at 9:40 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
That's an "everybody" as in "everybody is wearing x". Meaning a lot of people. The meat of my statement stands. If you send ATF agents door to door to collect everybody's newly-banned firearms and you will have a lot of very messy situations.posted by clarknova at 9:44 AM on December 15, 2012
You haven’t heard about the gun dorm? Well, back in August, the University of Colorado announced it was segregating students with concealed carry permits in dorms of their own on its campuses in Boulder and Colorado Springs. This, after the state Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling that struck down the school’s ban on people bringing guns on campus. So now, a student 21 years or older who has a permit may be armed in the dorm or even in class, though not, for some reason, at a school event requiring a ticket.
Recently, The Denver Post decided to count the number of young gunslingers who wanted to live among their own. How many kids had rushed to take advantage of this opportunity?
Let’s just say there is not a waiting list. The Post reports the number of kids who opted for the gun dorm is zero. A big, fat goose egg.posted by madamjujujive at 9:44 AM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
clarknova - you'll see I use both the term "magazine" and "clip" above. Plenty of people who shoot use the word clip, including me. Terminology bullying is an offshoot (cause or symptom?) of the general problem that it is difficult to talk about specific types of guns or features of guns that should be regulated.posted by Mid at 9:45 AM on December 15, 2012 [17 favorites]
> Personally, when I carried a gun every day I also carried pepper spray and two pocketknives.
Outside of the United States, only people in war zones walk around with four weapons at all times.
If you think that makes it sound better that you have more weapons that aren't guns, it does not. It makes me never want to go within a thousand miles of wherever it is that you live. You know, I've lived in some pretty low-rent districts, I got mugged once, but the idea of literally walking around with a small arsenal all the time, knowing many other people are doing the same, makes me frightened and sad.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:46 AM on December 15, 2012 [16 favorites]
Personally, when I carried a gun every day I also carried pepper spray and two pocketknives.
In Massachusetts, you need to pass a basic safety class in order to own a firearm
That's great. Here in CA they give you a quiz and then you wait 10 days for a background check. My coworker's dad just purchased a gun and nearly killed himself when he went to the range the first time because he had no idea what da/sa meant or how it works and the first shot he ever fired was into the ceiling from a misfire. One of the other shooters at the range saw the accident and gave him a little class on gun safety. I can laugh at this because it's good dark comedy but my coworker is now completely terrified his dad is going to shoot himself or one of his family members in error.posted by M Edward at 9:50 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
clarknova - you'll see I use both the term "magazine" and "clip" above. Plenty of people who shoot use the word clip, including me. Terminology bullying is an offshoot (cause or symptom?) of the general problem that it is difficult to talk about specific types of guns or features of guns that should be regulated.
I wasn't bullying. I know what you meant and it doesn't bother me. But a person saying "clip" in a sentence about gun regulation is a big ol trigger for a lot of conservative gun "enthusiasts". Your point may be right. You might even have a chance of convincing someone. But using a that specific term that doesn't mean what you think it means (they're not interchangeable) just activates the condescending know nuthin liberul archetype. If you've never seen it treated as a faux pas it may be hard to believe. But it's the case.posted by clarknova at 9:51 AM on December 15, 2012
that's a fair point, empress - but i would also like to say that over-the-top descriptions such as hobo's are part of what feeds the paranoia some gun owners feel towards the government or "liberals". that makes it part of the problem, not part of the solution
Not if there really are people like that. And there are.
i certainly don't see why anyone needs a gun with a 30 round magazine, for example - if someone needs that many shots to get a deer, they shouldn't be hunting.
I just heard that each of the victims' families has been assigned a state trooper (or maybe a cop?) to help them feel more secure and to serve as a communications liaison. That sounds like a really good and compassionate idea, I hope it's true.posted by madamjujujive at 10:06 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
clarknova - thanks, totally agree with you that there are these "trigger" words that make "gun rights" people go bananas. The general idea is that if you are not personally steeped in every aspect of guns and technical terminology around guns, then you have no business talking about regulating guns. This dynamic obscures some really simple points about technical capabilities of guns (like high-capacity magazines/clips) that really should not be controversial. My own view is that this dynamic is a purposeful tactic by folks like the NRA to obscure/confuse the issues, but I recognize that this perhaps is a partisan view.posted by Mid at 10:09 AM on December 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
If you send ATF agents door to door to collect everybody's newly-banned firearms
Make high-capacity magazines illegal, give everyone a 6 month grace period to turn them in to their local police, no questions asked, and then if you're caught with one after that, serious jail time and high fines.
Yes, the head of the state police said that none of the families wanted to speak to the media and that each had an officer assigned to them and that the media would have to go through the officer to get the family. I think that's a wonderful idea and I'm so glad someone thought of that.posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 10:15 AM on December 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
Make high-capacity magazines illegal, give everyone a 6 month grace period to turn them in to their local police, no questions asked, and then if you're caught with one after that, serious jail time and high fines.
Just as an example.
The ones who wouldn't turn them into visiting agents won't go to the agents either. At the end of your scenario you're still sending someone to the door for the guns. With predictable results.
My example of sending someone to the door to collect the firearms isn't just pulled out of thin air, either. In Canada, if you own a pistol, you have to be a member of a shooting club. The moment your membership expires the RCMP comes to your door for the gun. It's a model for handling firearm control.posted by clarknova at 10:17 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
> But using a that specific term that doesn't mean what you think it means (they're not interchangeable) just activates the condescending know nuthin liberul archetype.
But these stereotypes are activated if you say you don't own guns, or if you tell them you don't hunt - forget about it if you say that you don't eat meat!
Honest question - wouldn't any attempt at suggesting gun control activate those same archetypes?
Another honest question - do you honestly believe that any compromise is possible? Is it really possible to have a meaningful discussion when side X has contempt for side Y, and side Y fears side X?posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:18 AM on December 15, 2012
It could be said it would help them if we tightened our own laws, but I can't help but agree with one of the people quoted in that article, that people determined to have guns will find a way.
soundguy99, somehow I think that the most problematic people with those firearms would also be the least likely to participate in a buyout and least likely to care about consequenses of being caught with one.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:19 AM on December 15, 2012
To make it less personal: if it's an explicit choice between a few more Ruby Ridges and a few more Newtowns, then I'll take the former.posted by holgate at 10:20 AM on December 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
If you're tossing around those kinds of implicit threats, even if it's dick-swinging, it doesn't say much for the whole "responsible gun-owner" narrative, big boy.
Look. I'm being very reasonable and polite. I'm not even arguing for my own position. I'm pointing out what I believe to be a reality of American culture, having lived in the rural south and having traveled America quite a bit. You can toss out prissy insults aimed at a stereotype you imagine I fit, but you don't further any cause you have by doing so.posted by clarknova at 10:21 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
The moment your membership expires the RCMP comes to your door for the gun. It's a model for handling firearm control.
It doesn't have to be the only model. Instead of rounding them up, we could do a period of voluntary buyback (fed/state officials pay you fair value for your extended magazines.) After that, they're contraband. The cops don't go round them up, but they do confiscate them if they discover them during their investigations, and possession of the banned magazines results in extra jail time / fines.posted by tonycpsu at 10:22 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
It doesn't have to be the only model. Instead of rounding them up, we could do a period of voluntary buyback (fed/state officials pay you fair value for your extended magazines.) After that, they're contraband. The cops don't go round them up, but they do confiscate them if they discover them during their investigations, and possession of the banned magazines results in extra jail time / fines.
I don't think you understand. There are people who will just. Not. Volunteer for that. They may be paranoid but they're not dog dumb. They know what gun control looks like in any form: their enemy.posted by clarknova at 10:26 AM on December 15, 2012
Mexico's attempt to deal with guns.
It could be said it would help them if we tightened our own laws, but I can't help but agree with one of the people quoted in that article, that people determined to have guns will find a way.
Sure, they'll find a way. But maybe that way will be slightly trickier than, "Go to USA, buy guns hassle-free, smuggle guns across border."
I mean, come on. Try it with some other crime. "Rapists gonna rape, so why bother making it illegal?" What kind of logic is that?posted by Sys Rq at 10:26 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
[No personal back-and-forth please, and if you are articulating a position that is not your own, please make that clear. Thanks.]posted by LobsterMitten at 10:27 AM on December 15, 2012
From an article on the the CNN website:
Authorities found three guns next to Lanza's body in one of the classrooms, a law enforcement source told CNN. All three -- a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer -- were owned by Lanza's mother, the source said.
Investigators know which one Lanza used to kill himself but are not yet revealing that information, the source said.
Lanza also had access to at least three more guns, a second law enforcement source said. Investigators recovered a .45-caliber Henry Repeating Rifle, a .22-caliber Marlin Rifle and a .30-caliber Enfield Rifle, though it's unclear where they were found, the source said.
One of the law enforcement sources said they have information that Lanza tried to buy a gun in the area this past Tuesday. The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms said it is contacting shooting ranges and gun stores in the area to try to establish whether Lanza sought to purchase guns or practice using them.posted by Dr. Zira at 10:28 AM on December 15, 2012
clarknova: " I don't think you understand. There are people who will just. Not. Volunteer for that. They may be paranoid but they're not dog dumb. They know what gun control looks like in any form: their enemy."
Did you not read what I said? Of course a lot of people won't turn them over. That's why you have the second part, where using one in a crime or having one discovered in a routine police search increases the fines and jail time. This won't get rid of every extended magazine, but will make people think twice about whether they really need to fire 15, 30 shots without reloading.posted by tonycpsu at 10:29 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Right. The idea that any specific gun control measure must work perfectly in all circumstances or it is invalid is a standard that is not applied in any other public safety area. Requiring airbags does not prevent every automobile death. Restricting the sale of explosives and explosive ingredients does not prevent every type of bomb. The idea is to incrementally improve safety or incrementally make it harder to kill a lot of people before someone can intervene.posted by Mid at 10:30 AM on December 15, 2012 [37 favorites]
using a that specific term that doesn't mean what you think it means (they're not interchangeable) just activates the condescending know nuthin liberul archetype
It's true that someone advocating for a very specific kind of policy should be able to speak the language that policy requires, but the insistence on being able to talk about guns just like a gun enthusiast before having any opinion at all on the role of guns in society is silly and bullying. And like any priest craft that enforces its own jargon, it's a way of guarding privileges and keeping questions at bay.posted by octobersurprise at 10:32 AM on December 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
It really does seem that it is being claimed, "There will never be meaningful changes to gun control laws, as too many gun owners will resist these changes using their guns."
We see two statements:
1. Nearly all gun owners are responsible individuals.
2. If the law attempts to do anything to control their ownership of guns and ammo, then there will be blood baths.
These two statements cannot both be true. A person who thinks that obeying a gun control law is "dog dumb" cannot also be a "responsible individual".posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:36 AM on December 15, 2012 [32 favorites]
The new details St. Alia posted really make most of the recent discussion in this thread moot:
"Adam Lanza, as the alleged gunman was identified in several press reports, was 20-years old, a year under the legal limit for gun ownership in Connecticut. " (emphasis mine)
He had them illegally. With that one clarification, all our posturing back and forth about the evils of legally available guns and their various configurations amounts to squat - This could have happened in NYC or DC, with their insanely restrictive gun laws, just as easily as it did in (relatively) gun-friendly CT.
Can we all just shake hands now and accept that crazy, evil people will do crazy, evil things?posted by pla at 10:36 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Can we all just shake hands now and accept that crazy, evil people will do crazy, evil things?
Why should we accept them? Why should we let it be normalized instead of doing something? Because "liberties" is just a buzzword, not an explanation.posted by zombieflanders at 10:43 AM on December 15, 2012 [8 favorites]
No pla we can not, because unless he broke in to an armoury to get them it shows that allowing people to have semi-automatic weapons means they become much more readily available, including to 'crazy' people who may have not been able to act out their plans otherwise.posted by Megami at 10:45 AM on December 15, 2012 [31 favorites]
Can we all just shake hands now and accept that crazy, evil people will do crazy, evil things?
This type of thinking somehow does not get me out of the nudie-scan machine at the airport. I also can't buy unlimited quantities of nitrogen fertilizer or perform electrical work that does not meet code. It is not applied in any other area of public safety.posted by Mid at 10:47 AM on December 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
that people determined to have guns will find a way.
And this is true also, but, as others point out, there is no other aspect of our lives that we apply this standard to. It isn't an refutation of every kind of gun regulation, it's an incantation and applied to the rest of life in the manner the NRA likes to use it, it's an incantation that would abolish every law, every regulation, and most social activity.posted by octobersurprise at 10:49 AM on December 15, 2012
zombieflanders : Why should we accept them? Why should we let it be normalized instead of doing something? Because "liberties" is just a buzzword, not an explanation.
For the same reason we recognize that free speech will occasionally include hate speech.
Megami : No pla we can not, because unless he broke in to an armoury
Ah. I see where this has gone... When it looked like he got them legally, putting the pro-2nd-amendment people on the defensive, we could all talk rationally about "control". As soon as the coin flipped, *poof*, end of rational discussion and back to using loaded terms like "semi-automatic" and "assault rifle" incorrectly.
Consider me done in this thread. I'll leave a parting "." for the kids involved, and spare the snark for another day.
pla: "all our posturing back and forth about the evils of legally available guns and their various configurations amounts to squat"
I'm sure spiking the ball and pointing toward the scoreboard feels good, but as it happens, there are plenty of aspects of the gun control debate that have nothing to do with whether the guns are possessed legally or illegally. More guns in circulation, legal or illegal, increases the chance for someone to get their hands on them. Extended magazines increase the chances that a shooter can take out dozens instead of a few. Regulating the amount of ammunition one can buy the way we regulate methamphetamine precursors could have made it harder for the guy with illegal guns to get his hands on ammunition, legally purchased or not.posted by tonycpsu at 10:51 AM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
For the same reason we recognize that free speech will occasionally include hate speech.
Until it causes harm to a person or group of people, at which time it is no longer free speech.posted by zombieflanders at 10:52 AM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
I don't think you understand. There are people who will just. Not. Volunteer for that. They may be paranoid but they're not dog dumb. They know what gun control looks like in any form: their enemy.
That is true. But we have several examples of things people would never do that they are doing. It is within the immediate past that a hardcore group of people would never allow black people to attend "their" schools, sit at "their" lunch, or marry "their" kin. In my lifetime, all that has changed. Are things perfect? No, but the needle has moved in ways that people might never have thought 5 decades ago.
Someone above mentioned the anti-smoking campaign. I was as adamant as any of the gun people about my smoking rights (well maybe not quite as adamant, but...) -- here some few decades later, I no longer smoke. There are still smokers, but public spaces are healthier and fewer people smoke.
Gun control would need to be a longterm cultural and public health campaign to shift attitudes - incremental changes, as Mid says. But it can happen if we have the will and stand up to big moneyed interests.
Take a page from the antiabortion people - when they couldn't outlaw abortion wholesale, they have conducted a wildly successful long-term campaign to chip away at the edges. Gun control will take that kind of tenacity and long-term commitment.posted by madamjujujive at 10:53 AM on December 15, 2012 [20 favorites]
Can we all just shake hands now and accept that crazy, evil people will do crazy, evil things?
So if in America we had like 200 million canisters of nerve gas, much of it in heavily weaponized forms designed to kill masses of people, and then a 20 year old stole his mom's arsenal and killed a bunch of kids, you'd be in here all "crazy people gonna be crazy, what'cha gonna do?"
Because that's about as much sense as your argument is making to a lot of us. I went over to a friend's house a couple months ago and he showed me his new toy, an AR-15. There is simply no sane reason on earth for civilians to have those in their homes.
The purpose of these devices is to greatly magnify a person's killing power. And there's not that many well-adjusted, sane people committed to spending thousands of dollars to magnify their killing power.posted by crayz at 10:53 AM on December 15, 2012 [11 favorites]
that people determined to have guns will find a way.
And this is true also, but, as others point out, there is no other aspect of our lives that we apply this standard to. It isn't an refutation of every kind of gun regulation, it's an incantation and applied to the rest of life in the manner the NRA likes to use it, it's an incantation that would abolish every law, every regulation, and most social activity.
I suppose my point is, that if we put ALL our focus on that one aspect, it still may not bring us the results we all agree we want. Whether you are a gun owner or not, whether you are for gun control or not, there is a bigger picture here. I am not saying that no one should advocate for stricter controls on gun ownership but I am saying that in this particular culture of ours, that even if that achievement is unlocked, it still will not fix the overarching problem.
When I was a child there were lots of guns out there, my husband's high school had a gun safety day where everyone brought their guns to school, so on and so forth....why is it that we did not have these sorts of incidents THEN like we do NOW? We need an answer to THAT question even as we try to figure out how to keep firearms out of the reach of evil people.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:54 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
He had them illegally. With that one clarification, all our posturing back and forth about the evils of legally available guns and their various configurations amounts to squat - This could have happened in NYC or DC, with their insanely restrictive gun laws, just as easily as it did in (relatively) gun-friendly CT
Insanely restrictive?? Look at the laws in any other country. NY gun laws are not that restrictive.
As for his having them illegally, how did he get them? How hard is it for other people to get them? How available are they in general? Alcohol is illegal for 20 year olds, and so are grenades. But one of those things is still easier to access for 20 year olds...posted by mdn at 10:54 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
These two statements cannot both be true. A person who thinks that obeying a gun control law is "dog dumb" cannot also be a "responsible individual".
They cannot be true if all people who own guns all think exactly the same thing.
If you don't think disarming the nation presents, as I said, a structural problem because of defiant people with guns, people with mental problems, people with paranoid worldviews, and so on, you're free to think that.posted by clarknova at 10:58 AM on December 15, 2012
If you don't think disarming the nation presents, as I said, a structural problem because of defiant people with guns, people with mental problems ...
Well let's take the case of Adam Lanza, a person with mental problems who did not have guns. Presumably his mother would have been a responsible citizen and turned in her guns, and then her son would have not been able to access them.
Is this a perfect idea that solves all our society's problems? No. But that doesn't explain why you're arguing against it.posted by crayz at 11:04 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
> If you don't think disarming the nation presents, as I said, a structural problem because of defiant people with guns, people with mental problems, people with paranoid worldviews, and so on, you're free to think that.
No, I'm saying that many gun owners are not responsible people, because they are defiant with guns, have mental problems or paranoid world views.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 11:04 AM on December 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
If you don't think disarming the nation presents, as I said, a structural problem
Well I don't think anyone's trying to oversimplify the logistics. But lobbying and getting policy in place is the first step. Enforcement is, of course, a big problem.
Let's look at it this way. Say we disarm the nation of military grade weapons, leaving the allowable weapons as hunting rifles and limited handguns for those with hunting licenses (for the aforementioned bear issue), thus limiting allowable guns to those used for hunting.
I'm going to go ahead and say 50% of people willingly turn in their guns. That makes it twice as hard for someone to get their hands on a military assault rifle.
Now, in 5, 10, 20 years, with no new weapons being sold, the old ones dry up. In the long term, you don't need to enforce possession so much as production and distribution.
Cities with gun problems have reduced crime rates because, even with the black market, there are only so many guns available for distribution.
It doesn't solve the problem for tomorrow or next year, but it puts in place a long term plan that will make our nation safer in time. From a national policy level, that's pretty much the most we can hope for.posted by DoubleLune at 11:06 AM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
No, I'm saying that many gun owners are not responsible people, because they are defiant with guns, have mental problems or paranoid world views.
Do you believe that deaths of these children and their guardians is an acceptable price to pay for the current interpretation of the Second Amendment?
I own guns, and I can't answer yes. I've thought a lot about it, and I'd give up all of the semi-automatic weapons that I own. Some of them are old, and I dearly love old things. That would leave me with the muzzle-loader handgun, the .22 revolver, and the 30-30. I don't own any double-action revolvers anymore, but I'd give them up too.
But I won't have to give anything up. Nothing is going to change. The sellers of guns in this country have an interest in continued sales, and that market will trump the inalienable rights of the citizen to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."posted by the Real Dan at 11:16 AM on December 15, 2012 [26 favorites]
They cannot be true if all people who own guns all think exactly the same thing.
Likewise, if every gun owner isn't defiantly preparing to fight the Feds, then prohibiting some kinds of firearms isn't the insurmountable structural problem that you imagine.
Undoubtedly, any kind of nationwide confiscation would be difficult and expensive. I'm skeptical that it would be worth the cost or effort. But that's very different from asserting that any kind of regulation is doomed because gun owners will rise up in revolt.posted by octobersurprise at 11:17 AM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Look. We have affordable and/or free mental health care in the USA. It's there for anyone that needs it. "
But not in a way that adequately addresses their problems.
Two cases in point:
Case One: A bipolar woman I know. Usually fairly functional and able to work, despite her diagnosis... but she lost a good job that paid about $70K a year during the recession, and is currently stuck working a job that pays half that. She can't afford to leave it, though, because it has health insurance which she needs to make her bipolarism affordable to live with. Even with insurance, it costs her about $300 a month in insurance and meds to tackle the setup that allows her to be mentally functional at work, which for her means three different meds -- only one of which is generic -- plus sleeping pills, plus a hormone replacement patch, plus a CPAP machine. That, plus the crappy pay, makes her barely able to keep her head above water.
If any one element of what she needs isn't there, she gets bipoliarism, depression, panic attacks, and general inability to function. When she lost her prior job, she tried getting help from her city mental health services... but they didn't provide any coverage for non-psychiatric drugs, such as sleeping meds or hormone replacement therapy... nor did they provide any non-generics, which meant that she would get major panic attacks every day, and made living with her bipolarism *much, much* harder. It also made her job hunt much harder too. Fortunately, she found a job pretty quickly, as she couldn't afford to live on unemployment for long.
And so, she works her current lousy job, because it has semi-affordable insurance that covers these things.. even though it requires her to wait up to 2-3 months to see her psych doctor, located about 40 miles away. The doctor is far from ideal, but they're the only one in her insurance system that sees bipolar patients. She looks forward to the full implementation of Obamacare, because at least that way insurance will be available, no matter what employer she has... making it possible for her to take on more lucrative contract and temp-to-perm positions.
Case Two: A homeless person with schizophrenia. They'd get meds from the city mental health services, but would then be released and either have a hard time finding space in public shelters, or be essentially kicked out for talking/yelling in his sleep. Public housing had a 14 month waiting list, and wasn't configured to provide meds within the housing services geared to the homeless, even though most of the homeless required meds of one sort or another to be functional.
The problem, really, is that most people with mental disorders need several things at once -- and a stable environment -- in order to be functional, but our society does a lousy job of providing the depth of services they need. That makes it entirely too easy not only for the mentally ill to get off the streets and get functionally treated, but it also creates the kind of environment that tends to cause even functional, working mentally ill to wind up homeless and untreated, if they run into a spot of bad luck... which, statistically, they are likely to do sooner or later.posted by markkraft at 11:29 AM on December 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
pla, the fact that he was under CT's legal age to carry a gun is not new information; it was known yesterday. More importantly, though, the idea that "this happened while a law was broken and therefore no possible law can help" is, frankly, totally absurd.posted by Flunkie at 11:32 AM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
You can turn in guns right now. I did this a couple of months ago, turned in my late father's revolver (which had been in my mother's house for 25 years and in the house I grew up with before that, bullets still in the chamber, probably, and isn't that scary?) to HPD. Took the gun and the bullets over to the West Side command station, got a case file number, and they said they'd destroy the gun, which was fine with me.
Naturally, and as usual, Up with Chris Hayes had a really thoughtful discussion about the issues everyone is talking about here in this thread and all across the country today.posted by ob1quixote at 11:33 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've been watching news coverage of the latest mass murders by firearm for over a decade and I don't remember even once seeing an interviewed witness or victim or family member reacting with anger at the American gun culture that allows massacres like this to go on and on and on.
Because no one ever reacted with outrage or because corporate media would never air it?
So long as politicians fear the pro-gun lobby more than they fear anti-gun activists, little will change. People who continue to do no more than argue online rather than write their Representatives and Senators are just farting in the wind. Name-calling is ineffective and a "national conversation" is only more bullshit. This debate must be held in Congress and State Legislatures, and it cannot stop until the Second Amendment is extensively modiified.
Come Monday morning, the bulk of this indignation will have faded away, but the NRA's cash flow machine will continue churning contributions.posted by Ardiril at 11:38 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
markkraft,
There's something about schizophrenia that makes it treatment resistant. I saw some data not too long ago that said that even in countries with socialized medicine, relapse rates were about the same. This isn't an excuse for our crap medical care system in the USA, which in my opinion, is a national disgrace.
I tend to think there's something really wrong with American society. Two anecdotes.
A friend of mine spends a lot of time in the Philippines. He said he sometimes meets people who "talk to dead people" and they seem to fit in and function decently enough. Other people know that if you want to talk to a dead relative, you go to them. What's interesting is that my friend told me that when these "talk to dead people" folks move to the US they fall apart and get diagnosed with schizophrenia. Once they are back in the Philippines they are fine.
Second anecdote-- I used to have a friend who had schizophrenia, as it turned out. Money wasn't a problem for her, she had considerable financial resources. She just wouldn't take her pills. She was a beautiful, intelligent, perceptive woman even in the middle of her episodes, who seemed to simply have a hard time integrating into society. Seeing the cruelties of life seemed to hurt her more, and deeper, than it hurt other people.posted by wuwei at 11:40 AM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Another anecdote:
My brother has paranoid schizophrenia. He does this dangerous thing, when he's stressed, of getting himself arrested by pretending to have a gun, demanding money. He doesn't want to hurt anybody, just wants -- out, I guess.
So recently we had a bit of panic because his group home director told me that the state was working to get folks in group facilities put back in the community. The director to me was like, I have one client who thinks he's from Venus. He's not going to make it outside.
My bro is vulnerable enough that, hopefully with Venus guy, he will get to stay in his safe place. But the idea that somebody would try to take his safe place away makes my blood boil. Because I and his caregivers know that w/o a safe place, the chances that he will get shot by a cop during one of his 'please arrest me' adventures are very high.
Also anecdotally, my parents tried in various ways to get him care when symptoms of his schizophrenia manifested. I disagree with 95% of their choices when it comes to my brother, but my parents did try -- they were greatly hampered by their own limitations and by the lack of mental health care.
My little bro is not going to go shoot a bunch of kids. That's not how his disease manifests. But the amount of danger he has put himself into, he kind of lucky to be alive.
I'm a magazine editor, and I know that as writers and editors, we want to write things that touch people—when my colleagues and I read each other's work, we try to let each other know when a passage is particularly affecting, whether we laugh or we cry. That's part of the craft of writing and editing.
But no one I know wants things like this to happen just so they can evoke tears with their writing. These reactions are not the kinds of things you want to find yourself having to quote.
And wrapper, having read a lot of news coverage of this sort of thing myself, I would say that's because the family's first thought generally isn't to the larger culture. Their first thought is "Oh my God. Why did they take my baby?" So no, you probably aren't going to see a lot of victims talking about "gun culture" in initial coverage of things like this, and I think that has more to do with human nature and how we process personal tragedy than any sort of concerted effort on the part of news organizations to omit that sort of reaction.
But I could be wrong; I don't know what they do at other news organizations, and maybe those organizations are full of psychopaths who love it when mass murders occur so they can quote bereaved mothers and make people cry ("That'll get me a Pulitzer for sure!"), and maybe they suppress early quotes talking about gun culture to serve some sort of corporate goal or out of fear of seeming "political." I only know that at my own publication, that's not how we do things.posted by limeonaire at 11:52 AM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
"we want to write things that touch people"
How many journalists will donate their wages from yesterday toward amending the Second Amendment? How many will remain vampires, feeding off their reality porn?posted by Ardiril at 12:01 PM on December 15, 2012
The argument I keep seeing on FB today (mostly by pro-gun folk) is that it's not a gun problem, it's a lack of mental healthcare problem, and any sort of gun control won't fix anything, because determined folk can resort to lawn furniture to hurt people.
And the thing is, I agree that mental healthcare in this country (or the lack thereof) is pretty appalling, but pointing that out as a counterargument is like people who talk about weight loss like "Diet is as important, if not moreso, than exercise." Which is true, but like, you know what else remains important then? Exercise!posted by Uther Bentrazor at 12:09 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Contradicting earlier reports, Ms. Robinson said Mr. Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, had never been a teacher or a substitute teacher at the school, though she did not specifically say whether she had had any other connection to the place.
Officials said the killing spree began early on Friday at the house where Mr. Lanza had lived with his mother. There, he shot her in the face, making her his first victim, the authorities said. Then, leaving her dead after taking three guns that apparently belonged to her, he climbed into her car for the short drive to the school. Two of the guns were semiautomatic pistols; the other was a semiautomatic rifle.
Outfitted in combat gear, Mr. Lanza forced his way into the school, apparently defeating an intercom system that was supposed to keep people out during the day unless someone inside buzzed them in. This was contrary to earlier reports that he had been recognized and allowed to enter.
So the bulletproof vest has morphed into combat gear and his mother's connection with the school is non-existent.
The "combat gear" and the choice of weapons (for which his mother apparently served as a strawman purchaser) makes this look like a long term developing situation. Wait for what turns up in the search of the home. I'm betting there will be other evidence of long-term planning.
We are still days, if not weeks, from the facts of the case.
Lack of access to mental healthcare was not a factor in this case. Refusal to seek care is more like it. So people should stop scapegoating the mentally ill or mental health providers. This isn't their problem.posted by warbaby at 12:11 PM on December 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
The argument I keep seeing on FB today (mostly by pro-gun folk) is that it's not a gun problem, it's a lack of mental healthcare problem, and any sort of gun control won't fix anything, because determined folk can resort to lawn furniture to hurt people.
Well, even at that. He apparently wanted to buy a rifle earlier and was dissuaded by the background checks.
So, he stole his mother's legally registered and acquired guns, and used them.
Don't get me wrong - I think there should be more substantive registration and checks of firearms. But at the same time, I see the ineffectiveness of, say, DRM at curbing behaviors and how it gets in the way of legitimate users and how trivial it is for anyone with half a brain to circumvent.posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:18 PM on December 15, 2012
From the point of view of someone in their early thirties in the UK, the non-hunting pro gun arguments people have voiced on here are some of the most terrifying and personally incomprehensible things I've read recently.
Why the fuck do you guys think it's a great cultural norm for anyone to go around with a tool designed only to kill...? I mean, the parts about "it's just like car keys..." or similar.
The argument I keep seeing on FB today (mostly by pro-gun folk) is that it's not a gun problem, it's a lack of mental healthcare problem, and any sort of gun control won't fix anything, because determined folk can resort to lawn furniture to hurt people.
hmmfff.....well, lawn chairs tend to take a bit more time to be effective as a fatal instrument. Yesterday's events would have been far less tragic if the shooter had stocked up at Home Depot that morning.
But I hear ya and get what you are saying. Though coming from FB users, I tend to be reminded of that dad who shot his daughters laptop because she had posted something he did not like on Facebook.
Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns of models commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine, according to law enforcement officials who also believe Adam Lanza used at least some of those weapons. ... Nancy Lanza was an avid gun collector who once showed him a "really nice, high-end rifle" that she had purchased, said Dan Holmes, owner of a landscaping business who recently decorated her yard with Christmas garlands and lights. "She said she would often go target shooting with her kids."
Every country has a sizable contingent of mentally ill citizens. We’re the one that gives them the technological power to play god.
This is all about guns — access to guns and the ever-increasing firepower of guns. Over the past few years we’ve seen one shooting after another in which the killer was wielding weapons holding 30, 50, 100 bullets. I’m tired of hearing fellow citizens argue that you need that kind of firepower because it’s a pain to reload when you’re shooting clay pigeons. Or that the founding fathers specifically wanted to make sure Americans retained their right to carry rifles capable of mowing down dozens of people in a couple of minutes.
... We will undoubtedly have arguments about whether tougher regulation on gun sales or extra bullet capacity would have made a difference in Connecticut. In a way it doesn’t matter. America needs to tackle gun violence because we need to redefine who we are. We have come to regard ourselves — and the world has come to regard us — as a country that’s so gun happy that the right to traffic freely in the most obscene quantities of weapons is regarded as far more precious than an American’s right to health care or a good education.
We have to make ourselves better. Otherwise, the story from Connecticut is too unspeakable to bear.
Interview with a 1st. Grade teacher (aka a 'brave angel' IMHO) who barricaded her students in their classroom while the shootings were taking place.posted by ericb at 12:39 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's not been mentioned in this thread, but one aspect of the "right to bear arms for personal defense" argument (as opposed to for sport or for hunting) is deeply held and unspoken racism.posted by KokuRyu at 12:40 PM on December 15, 2012 [22 favorites]
The argument I keep seeing on FB today (mostly by pro-gun folk) is that it's not a gun problem, it's a lack of mental healthcare problem
I've heard pretty much nothing but chirping crickets from the usual suspects amongst my Facebook friends. Literally the only thing from any of them was that one of the most vocal way out there Jesus-bless-my-guns-so-I-can-protect-America-from-the-Kenyan types posted a picture of an ubiquitous "cause" ribbon with the name of the school on it. As if that absolves him.posted by Flunkie at 12:41 PM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
How many journalists will donate their wages from yesterday toward amending the Second Amendment? How many will remain vampires, feeding off their reality porn?
You know, journalists have to live—and live with what we've seen and what we've written—just like everyone else. And we're human beings with sometimes complicated sets of feelings about things that are central to living in the U.S., like the Second Amendment. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all approach to being a journalist or dealing with crises like this, and personally, no, I'm not ready to call for an amendment to the Second Amendment, or donate my wages from yesterday toward that cause.
Speaking only for myself, I'm still working through my thoughts and feelings about this week's shootings and the surrounding issues, processing it all just as so many others are, and figuring out how to move forward. Part of how I'm doing that is by writing down my thoughts and feelings, and commenting when I feel like I have something worth saying or thinking through in writing, as I just did. And another part of how I'm doing that is by reading everyone's thoughts in this thread, including yours, and trying to figure out what I think is a useful or good solution. I am definitely not at a point where I think I have all the answers, but if you feel like you know the way forward, then by all means press on. I'm still figuring it out—and I'm allowed to take the time to do that.
Yes, some journalists are "vampires, feeding off their reality porn." But many more aren't, and the antidote to the behavior of the others isn't snap judgments or instant vows to be part of a given cause.posted by limeonaire at 12:43 PM on December 15, 2012 [21 favorites]
Yeah, the "those weren't Ms. Lanza's guns" misinformation is pretty thoroughly shattered now, so can we stop repeating it?posted by Sidhedevil at 12:48 PM on December 15, 2012
I don't care if the guns belonged to her, the shooter, or Charlie Manson. She didn't need all those damn guns.posted by angrycat at 12:51 PM on December 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
If a government were any damn good, it would actively seek to learn how other nations do things, analyze the results, and choose best practices. Hell, anything less than that is to just pathetically half-ass one's responsibilities to the country.
Assuming that those with true wealth and power want best management practices. I'll bet a scared, stressed-out population is better for them.
Why don't the Swiss have a comparable per capita rate of spree killings and other gun violence? Switzerland has a very high rate of gun ownership, including of fully automatic weapons that are banned in the U.S.
I know some studies show a great correlation between social equality and lower rates of violence. (Also better social equality equates with better health and a horde of other things).
The US is an outlier in gun violence and inequality among wealthier countries.posted by chapps at 12:57 PM on December 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
Isn't it the case that all "illegal guns" were once "legal guns"? It's not like they come out of the gun factories with different labels. While the transition from legal to illegal is one obvious point of attack, the ultimate problem is therefore the legal guns since they are a necessary condition for the illegal ones.
As for being a gun fancier with lots of guns in a house with a mentally-ill 20 year old son, I dunno, that's reckless at best and close to being an accessory before the fact, though no doubt perfectly legal and covered by the 2nd amendment and all that deeply important stuff.posted by Rumple at 1:00 PM on December 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
You reminded me of something I wrote five years ago in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech massacre. My apologies for the length.
John Brunner was cyberpunk before there was such a thing. Brunner's works are somewhat of a riddle. He wrote prolifically, but much of it is about what you would expect. However, in the decade between 1965 and 1975 Brunner unwittingly originated the cyperpunk genre and wrote five of the most horrifically visionary science fiction novels of the 20th century, viz.The Squares of the City, The Sheep Look Up, Stand on Zanzibar, The Jagged Orbit, and The Shockwave Rider.
Arguably, the Hugo award-winning Stand on Zanzibar is the best of the lot. The book takes place in 2010 as seen from 1968. Many of the themes are hauntingly accurate: rampant consumerism, ubiquitous terrorism and "muckers."
The consumerism depicted in Zanzibar is a reasonable projection from the society of 1968. Even then automakers would introduce "Next Year's Model" in the fall. In Zanzibar the "Next Year's Model" syndrome is markedly more pronounced, but not dissimilar to the way everything from clothes to phones are marketed today.
As for terrorism, Brunner's vision is much sharper here. While there are events that could be considered "terrorist attacks" stretching back into antiquity, most of what we know as terrorism hadn't even happened yet. Munich wasn't until 1972. The first terrorist suicide bomb wasn't detonated until 1981. While we haven't risen to the level depicted in Zanzibar, there is no denying that the tactics of terrorism have seen a dramatic upsurge in the last four decades.
The most disturbing future vision raised in Zanzibar is the mucker. A mucker is a person who has run amok, i.e. they have gone into a frenzy and taken up arms with the intent to kill everyone they meet. Usually, there is little to no warning that a person is about to do this. Muckers are typically not captured alive.
In Zanzibar, Brunner describes a society absolutely petrified of muckers. Many of the people in Burnner's world live tightly packed, but in complete isolation from one another. They sit at home and watch the adventures of "Mr. and Mrs. Everywhere," in which their form and speech are digitally superimposed over the actors, so that they feel like they've gone places without leaving their couch. Kept in terror by newscasts that imply that any of their neighbors might run amok at any time, they arm themselves in self-defense, even though it is widely believed that few who stand against a mucker live to tell the tale.
The reasons people run amok are a mystery, both in Zanzibar and in real life. Psychologists, as they are want to do, come up with all kinds of theories, but none can explain what makes a person want to kill dozens of complete strangers. Crackpots have at various times posited video games, pornography, rap music, comic books, and marijuana as prime causes. Society in general comes up with nothing but excuses, much of which is merely an attempt to deflect any collective culpability for the marginalization of the perpetrator. Like the denizens of Brunner's America, we isolate ourselves psychologically from our friends and neighbors, believe more of what we see on the news than is good for us, and deny any part of fomenting an environment in which such tragic events are all but certain to occur.
Is it not plain to see that while tragic and senseless events do occur, THE MAN exploits them to keep us off balance and constantly starting at shadows? Have we come to this, that we slaughter the innocent, convict the guiltless, welcome the oppressor, and praise the charlatan, such is our ignorance and cowardice? With each passing day we advance to a time when Brunner's nightmare visions come closer and closer to reality. Must we perforce bury our essential human dignity deeper and deeper beneath machinery and deceit simply to survive without giving in to the mucker within all of us? As we march inexorably towards that day when all Earth's people, elbow to elbow and face to face, might be able to stand on Zanzibar if we allow some to wade up to their knees, what happens to humanity itself?
* Owning a gun is like owning a fridge or other household appliance.
* Carrying a gun is like carrying a cellphone or car keys.
* Gun control is a bad idea because too many dangerous people have guns.
* Murdering 20 small children is no proof that someone is mentally ill.
* Obtaining an illegal gun is like breaking DRM.
I start to type - and I'm just dumbfounded. Would it really bother you as much to learn that your next door neighbor had 2000 pirated DVDs as to learn they had 100 illegal guns? What possible definition of sanity includes someone who can randomly murder a couple of dozen people, mainly kids?
I don’t feel that I have any great insight on the gun-control debate that inevitably swirls around these incidents. But I always agonize about journalism’s role in these stories. Clearly this is attention-seeking behavior, and we give these killers what they want.
I should clarify: I don’t think the psychology of mass murder is simple enough to attribute to any single factor such as longing for attention. (And one of the things that most annoys me about coverage is when we interview psychologists who speculate about the mental state of someone they have never examined.)
But it’s clear to me that attention is part of the motivation of killers. Even those who kill themselves or keep killing until an officer kills them clearly have decided they want to go out in a blaze of infamy.
Today is my son's birthday. It is unfathomable to me that we picked up his birthday cake yesterday, gave him presents today, and that parents lost their children yesterday and will never have another birthday like we had today.
pyramid termite: i would say that if going off and shooting a bunch of people isn't something that fits our definition of mental illness, then our definition is lacking
Most soldiers are not de facto given a mental illness diagnosis (though shellshock/PTSD is found in a lot of them). As I listed above in my exhaustive listing of studies of mass murderers and schizophrenia, only about 30-40% have contact with the mental health system prior to offending. Mental illness is primarily defined by symtoms a person exhibits, and while someone might be diagnoses AFTER committing a mass murder, as that would be considered 'a symptom', they seem to not meet criteria beforehand and people who do meet criteria for a variety of mental illnesses (possibly even sociopathy - our studies of sociopathy come almost entirely from the prison system, which is a major confound) don't commit mass killings.
False positives are a huge and serious problem, even within more study and predictive driven forensic science, and the majority of mental health is not predictive.
I want to emphasize that. Our predictive ability sucks. (Sucks defined as same as chance). Far more false positives and negatives than valid calls. And when false positives cost people their community, career, and standing that destroys their life.
Even when our predictive ability doesn't suck (which is rarely) there is still usually a huge false positive cohort - not 1% of 5% but 20%. The most predictive test of future violence, Psychopathy Checklist-Revised, has an 80% success rate - which means a 20% failure rate. Its creator admits all the fears he had about it being applied in a criminal setting have pretty much come true.
"Once you get into the real world, there does seem to be some lessening of reliability," says Daniel Murrie, a professor at the University of Virginia who has studied what happens when psychological tests are taken from a rarefied research environment and transferred to the rough-and-tumble world of criminal justice.
About four years ago, Murrie decided to study the PCL-R to look at what happened when a psychologist hired by the prosecution gave Hare's test to the same prisoner as a psychologist hired by the defense.
Did those two psychologists give the same score to the same person?
The answer, says Murrie, was no. "Ten, 15, even 20-point score differences we found," he says, " And overall there was about an 8-point difference in scores."
And this is with something pretty tested and predictive - that inter-rater reliability is crap. In a study, those would have to be thrown out. In a court, someone whose defense didn't get their own scoring can be labeled a "sociopath" and kept in prison for the rest of their life even if they didn't kill someone.
Nevermind that since the majority (2/3) of mass murderers have no significant contact with the mental health system we'd just have to test everyone and then... I don't know, throw them all in prison? Seriously, before they've committed a crime, how do you think this can even be addressed? Right now we're not meeting the needs (food, clothing, shelter) of the mental illness population we have; I'm not sure where the money could come to follow around people who somehow fail the "will committ mass murder" test we haven't even made yet.
A lot of people seem really, really invested in re-defining "mental illness" to keep the people who kill people from being "normal." The cost to that is the lives of people with legitamate mental illnesses who never commit crimes - people already struggling who are discriminated against because people are afraid of them. This is fucking criminal.
People being scared of mass murderers is not a good enough reason to punish anyone with a mental illness, nor is it enough to de facto remake the mental illness system to address mass murderers at the expense of everyone else.posted by Deoridhe at 1:28 PM on December 15, 2012 [17 favorites]
So, it's been my experience that mental health care is pretty much available to anyone who wants it. All they have to do it look for it. The people who snap and do unspeakable things (whether it's mass killings, serial killings, killing one person, or suicide) are those who refuse medical care, aren't aware that help is possible, or simple refuse to admit that they need it.
As someone who was poor and looking for affordable mental health care during a crisis, your experience was not my experience at all. After days of searching I found one facility that offered $30 for the first session--$100 for all sessions after that. Then the cost of medication. Right now I get treatment because of my school's counseling center. When I leave I am not sure what I'll do. Do not assume it's that easy.posted by schroedinger at 1:43 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
What group is the anti-NRA? The Brady Campaign seems to spend lots of money fundraising. I need to do what I can to fight the pernicious effects of the NRA. What group do I join?posted by professor plum with a rope at 1:50 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is there even any basis for communication between the two sides in this debate?
It is like trying to communicate with goldfish about water. You're talking to people who can't conceive "no water". US culture ensures you spend your life swimming in violence. For a great majority of Americans, the concept of safety without firepower is as absurd as the concept of breathing in outer space.posted by five fresh fish at 1:52 PM on December 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
This prompted me to return to chapter 2 of Colin Wilson's epic A Criminal History of Mankind. (Yes, Wilson was infaturated with the occult, but he was also one of the best true crime writers to ply the trade.) In "A Report on the Violent Man" Wilson recounts a theory of A. E. Van Vogt, a renowned science fiction writer who was also the author of a number of psychological studies.
Van Vogt had formed the theory that a certain subset of the population, particularly men (but as Wilson later argues a few women too) are "Right Men" who have a consistent psychological weakness. Of the examples Wilson visits perhaps the most prominent is Peter Sellers, a brilliant and respected actor who was deeply insecure and prone to fly into uncontrollable rages when challenged. Wilson:
Van Vogt makes the basic observation that the central characteristic of the Right Man is 'the decision to be out of control, in some particular area.' We all have to learn self-control to deal with the real world, and with other people. But with some particular person -- a mother, a wife, a child -- we may decide that this effort is unnecessary and allow ourselves to explode.
After recounting another anecdote from Sergei Aksasov's Family Chronicle of his grandfather flying into a senseless rage, Wilson continues:
Aksasov sees his grandfather as a 'noble, magnanimous, often self-restrained man' -- So he is capable of self-restraint. But in this one area of his life, his control over his family, he has made 'the decision to be out of control.' It is provoked by his daughter persisting in a lie; this infuriates him; he feels she is treating him with a lack of respect in assuming he can be duped. So he explodes and drags his wife around by the hair.
So how does this behavior extend to mass murder? A later comment is haunting:
The Right Man feels that his rage is a storm which has to be allowed to blow itself out, no matter what damage it causes. But this means he is also the slave of an impulse he cannot control; his property, even the lives of those he loves, are at the mercy of his emotions.
I'll just leave it at that; Wilson takes over 600 pages making his case that this kind of behavior is fairly common, readily provoked by certain recognizable situations, and becoming steadily more common and bizarre. These are not people who would normally be recognized as "mentally ill." They are hard working upstanding citizens and they do not consider themselves dangerous; often neither do their victims even after multiple outbursts.
Recounting an episode when Peter Sellers flew into a tantrum, stabbed the floorboard with a knife and told his maid "I'll kill you you cow," Wilson says we must leave the question open of whether he was serious. Many similar examples show that, despite all he had to lose, he might well have gone through with it if sufficiently provoked. (In that case the maid jumped out a window and ran for her life, never to be seen by the Sellers family again.)
I'll let the rest of you lot argue about whether such people should have guns and if not how to keep them separated.posted by localroger at 1:53 PM on December 15, 2012 [22 favorites]
Then why are there unmedicated crazy people walking the streets. You know, a good majority of the homeless population suffer from some sort of mental disorder, PTSD or Schizophrenia.
Also, people who are medicated may still have symptoms of hallucinations and delusions; most of my clients still do, even though they are medicated, but effective case management can teach coping skills and reality testing. Negative symptoms, like avolition and cognitive disorganization, also often remain. Having a very severe mental illness sucks hairy monkey balls, and a bunch of people deciding you also are an empryo-mass-murder does not help.
Most people with severe enough mental illnesses can get on social security and use medicaid and medicare. Getting on can take years (you often have to apply multiple times), but once you're in you can usually score a case manager (like me) who can try to keep the benefits going. Medicare is the hardest to maintain; it gives me serious headaches because we have to renew every year (oh yeah, last year she had schizophrenia, but this year just an adjustment disorder! *spits*). If you're looking for local services in the USA, call 211 and explain your situation; each state has a different process even when the services are Federally Mandated. I believe NAMI might also have people who can help you navigate getting services. If you memail me your location, I'll see what I can find; I have experience across a couple of states.
If you want to help, contact NAMI. They can point you to ways to volunteer locally. One basic way to help is to treat all human beings with respect and dignity, even if they are talking to themselves but don't have a bluetooth headset.posted by Deoridhe at 1:53 PM on December 15, 2012 [16 favorites]
At some point I think we have to consider that instead of just lumping this under the category of mental illness....we need to understand that there is such a thing is evil. Evil is not equivalent to mentally ill. Most mentally ill people are NOT evil by any standard, for one. For another, one could be evil and totally sane.
Unless this shooter was totally delusional, or dealing with, say, paranoid schizophrenia (which we have no evidence for either at this point) we have to realize that sometimes the only answer we will have to something like this is someone chose to embody evil.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:55 PM on December 15, 2012
Oh, and before anyone jumps in I am very aware that most schizophrenic people are totally harmless to others.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:57 PM on December 15, 2012
> Is there even any basis for communication between the two sides in this debate?
Nope. And the winning side (those who just hold out until they're forced to shoot you down to shut you up) have us all at 6s and 7s.posted by de at 1:59 PM on December 15, 2012
Murdering 20 small children is no proof that someone is mentally ill.
What possible definition of sanity includes someone who can randomly murder a couple of dozen people, mainly kids?
Wading in here against all my better judgement to just clarify something.
Mental illness and insanity are not the same thing; there are a tremendous number of people with mental health issues who are not insane. We all know and live with people (even if they haven't told you) who are working on mental health issues who are not a threat to anyone.
I have no idea what was going on with the perpetrator in this case (I've actually been avoiding the news because it makes me physically ill) and I'm not going to speculate, but this is one of those semantic things that makes life for those coping with mental illness a little harder.posted by never used baby shoes at 2:01 PM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Today I'm trying to figure out how it is that I'm raising my sons and daughter in a culture where we teach our kids how to avoid being shot and avoid being raped, instead of doing the things that would have to happen to keep people from shooting or raping them. The burden is being put on the wrong parts of the equation here, and it is sickening.
Small children hiding in a cupboard, while someone murders their schoolmates, because we can't have it be too hard for someone to own a piece of machinery that only exists to main or kill? Disgusting.posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 2:06 PM on December 15, 2012 [13 favorites]
This has also popped up in my Facebook feed, too. I don't think it's a particularly sophisticated or insightful way to address what happened yesterday.posted by KokuRyu at 2:09 PM on December 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
we have to realize that sometimes the only answer we will have to something like this is someone chose to embody evil
I start to type - and I'm just dumbfounded. Would it really bother you as much to learn that your next door neighbor had 2000 pirated DVDs as to learn they had 100 illegal guns?
That wasn't what I was getting at.
Look, this kid tried to buy a gun and was denied. The system, to that point, as it exists, worked.
But like the analog hole, he just found someone who had the weapons he wanted, and took them; more or less trivially.
I mean, Anders Breivik even circumvented the highly rigid gun control laws of Norway to perform his attack, using a legally acquired handgun and hunting rifle.
That's not to say that there are fundamental weakness and problems with firearm legislation and culture in the US. There certainly is.
Fundamentally, there is precious little you can do if someone decides that they are going to fuck it all and take as many people as possible with them. The basic trust that is required to make a society is the biggest vulnerability.posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:15 PM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think "evil" has perhaps too many connotations to be the right word (and, realistically, St. Alia, coming from you it's not even as neutral as it could be) but I think it is useful to be aware of our desperate need to classify and define as a way to control things, and stepping back and saying "bad things happen that we can't stop" balances that somewhat. I'm not saying, at all, that we shouldn't be thinking of steps to improve things in general, but there's a danger in trying to control everything ever in order to be safe - that's the mentality that leads us to stupid airport "security" and dangerous laws and, yes, stockpiling guns and ammo.posted by restless_nomad at 2:15 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm really surprised at the lack of rationality and logical argument here. Still a lot of raw emotion leading the charge.
My opinion will likely be unpopular, so I won't bother voicing it.
What I will say is that I reject the idea that something MUST be done when tragedies like this happen. I don't understand that need because I don't think it's rational.posted by autobahn at 2:22 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
If people shooting other people is evil then America is the most evilest of all places but I learned in third grade that America was the most best place? I'll pray on it.posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:22 PM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Lanza family will be holding a press conference at 6:00 p.m. (Eastern).posted by ericb at 2:22 PM on December 15, 2012
All of those babies. And the adults caring for them. My kid is 7. I haven't talked to him about this. How can I? His vivid imagination will have him imagining gunmen in class immediately. Yes, there were "helpers" and heroes, but those kids are still dead, mowed down in a classroom, despite a security measure, despite drills. I can't honestly say to him "you're safe."posted by emjaybee at 2:23 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, ok, several of my brother's close friends' kids are on that list.
Somehow, the person I'm most furious with is Mike Huckabee, though.
Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. You go tell those parents "Well, this is your fault for not allowing prayer in school." Say it to their face, you fucking bible thumping coward. Some of those kids are from church going Christian families. Go say to their faces "I know she prayed at home and at church, but God killed her because he's really angry that prayer wasn't allowed in school. Oh, and all those kids he let live even though there is no prayer in school? Well, God spared them. He punished your daughter, though."
Seriously, Mike Huckabee, I never had much of an opinion about you before, but fuck you so hard for making this a TV talking point to bolster your own career. You are no true Christian. You are no true human being. You deserve to live a long life in obscurity and die naturally at a ripe old age forgotten by most and cursed by the rest.posted by Joey Michaels at 2:25 PM on December 15, 2012 [99 favorites]
we need to understand that there is such a thing is evil. Evil is not equivalent to mentally ill.
Evil is a perception or construct of the state of the world and/or its inhabitants. It is not quantifiable in any way that can assist in preventing itself, even if it was something other than some odd way we try to explain the un-explainable behavior and values of others.posted by lampshade at 2:26 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
My god, all 6 or 7. My youngest daughter is 6 almost 7 and I am thinking of 20 children like this, my god. Those poor parents, sisters, brothers.posted by torticat at 2:26 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
> But like the analog hole,
:-o
For most people, acquiring an illegal gun is nothing at all like copying a digital recording through your analog outputs.
> he just found someone who had the weapons he wanted, and took them; more or less trivially.
But you see, in the world I live in, that most people in the first world live in, it is absolutely not trivial to get guns, because of gun control. In my world, he would not have trivially been able to get guns - indeed, it's quite likely he wouldn't have been able to get them at all.
Your argument is "guns are easy to get, therefore restrictions on them are pointless." This is circular logic.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 2:26 PM on December 15, 2012
You know what, sorry for that rant. I won't delete it because I just posted it and want to respect the editing guidelines, but I am clearly too emotionally connected to this to participate rationally. Will back off this discussion for a bit.posted by Joey Michaels at 2:27 PM on December 15, 2012
There's something about knowing the event and knowing that a girl named Caroline is dead for no reason. I am not a parent and have no plans to be one. But I do love kids that age and I remember that time of my life to be one of -- well, aside from some spankings after I started invading the boy's bathroom at school, it was just a pure happy time.
The other thing I was thinking of, is this has a feeling to it of Atom Eygan's movie The Sweet Hereafter. It is not the best movie in the world, but there was this idea nestled in it that reminded me of this event. The idea is that the children died because of the sins of members of the community, and there is an explicit reference to The Pied Piper. And it struck me that one thing about that age is stories like The Pied Piper, and fucking believing in that shit, because you are five or six or seven.
I'm just free-associating here, but it seems like there is something about this event that is just so unsettling, and it has to do with scary stories coming true. It has to do with this instinctive animal reaction when young ones are threatened. The urge to run, bite, hit, do everything to protect is very strong.
But there's nothing to be done. Except for policy change. I do believe in policy changes that can work. The other thought that struck me is that 9/11 was used to club liberals for a good eight years. We got two wars out of it. Fine. Let's turn it over: Use this to abolish (rescind?) the second amendment.posted by angrycat at 2:30 PM on December 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
> Fundamentally, there is precious little you can do if someone decides that they are going to fuck it all and take as many people as possible with them.
Yes there is. You can make it much harder for them to get the weapons to kill a lot of people. The fact that the systems that do this in other countries occasionally fail is no proof that these systems don't work.
> The basic trust that is required to make a society is the biggest vulnerability.
And owning guns is both a symptom and a cause of a breakdown in that trust.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 2:35 PM on December 15, 2012
Angrycat, I respect you for proposing the repeal of the second amendment. Most people don't have the honesty or the guts to come out and say that's what they want.posted by autobahn at 2:35 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have a little habit that I've always enjoyed up until now. When I read a list of children's names (my daughter's classmates, an honor roll, a Little League team), I think about what they will become someday. Neurologist. Baseball player. Veterinarian. Opera singer. Judge. Mother of 6 kids. Ranch hand. Used car salesman. I didn't want to play that game with this list, but I can't help it. I just really hope they never knew what was happening.posted by Rock Steady at 2:38 PM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
emjaybee, I absolutely feel for you, but talk to your son, it's better than that he hear from friends. My husband and I told our 6 and 9yo daughters this morning (we kept the news off last night). They had some questions but it was okay. We had heard yesterday from their school (which is in Hoboken) about security and discussed that with the kids. 9yo asked if someone still couldn't break a window and get into their school, and I said the answer is yes, but there are many dangers we face every day (car accidents and so on) and we just do everything we can to be safe.
I think children understand. I admit I'm afraid of their hearing details as they come out, though.posted by torticat at 2:41 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
After my last post, I saw the list of names and ages and birth dates. My older son turned six at the end of October. One child on that list turned six about a week before him; another child turned six about a week after. There are 25 children in his class - there are 20 children on that list. It is the utter decimation of a group just like the one I spent last Wednesday morning with in the classroom. And now I'm trying to think of where his teachers could hide him and his classmates from someone with a gun.posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 2:41 PM on December 15, 2012
I respect you for proposing the repeal of the second amendment. Most people don't have the honesty or the guts to come out and say that's what they want.
We wouldn't have to repeal the Second Amendment - we could do just what the Patriot Act did to the First, Fourth and Sixth Amendments, which is to temporarily suspend them for the duration of the emergency.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 2:43 PM on December 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
Your argument is "guns are easy to get, therefore restrictions on them are pointless." This is circular logic.
I'm sorry if I was unclear, but you have completely misunderstood my argument.posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:48 PM on December 15, 2012
Fundamentally, there is precious little you can do if someone decides that they are going to fuck it all and take as many people as possible with them.
> I'm sorry if I was unclear, but you have completely misunderstood my argument.
Then what is your argument? I mean, here's what you wrote.
Look, this kid tried to buy a gun and was denied. The system, to that point, as it exists, worked.
But like the analog hole, he just found someone who had the weapons he wanted, and took them; more or less trivially.
You seem to be arguing that the rules were pointless, because he was trivially able to get a gun.
I mean, Anders Breivik even circumvented the highly rigid gun control laws of Norway to perform his attack, using a legally acquired handgun and hunting rifle.
You seem to be arguing that the failure of Norway's system implies that stricter rules would not prevent an attack.posted by lupus_yonderboy at 2:52 PM on December 15, 2012
We wouldn't have to repeal the Second Amendment - we could do just what the Patriot Act did to the First, Fourth and Sixth Amendments, which is to temporarily suspend them for the duration of the emergency.
Most people don't have the honesty or the guts to come out and say that's what they want.
That's sort of a backhanded insult, isn't it? "Most people" meaning who? I am in favor of much tougher gun laws, and much more enforcement of those laws and the ones we now have, and yet I don't in fact favor repealing the second amendment, and resent the implication that I am somehow being disingenuous if I say "I want background checks for all gun purchases" and licensing and training requirements to be more stringent and not be against the second amendment, which says nothing at all about responsibilities entailed in the right to keep and bear arms.
It is not a binary issue, and only zealots on either side can make it seem so. It is not like, say, abortion or same sex marriage, where there is a pure toggle between possible positions; and it is the case, demonstrably, that unlike other civil rights, the right to keep and bear arms entails a serious risk of infringement of other people's equally constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, as it were.
The best argument the right has against gay marriage is that it will harm straight marriage. That's been proven to be bullshit, as if it needed to be.
But the best argument the NRA crowd has against *any* sort of legislative restriction of gun or weapon ownership is a vaguely worded sentence and a semantic debate over the meaning of the word "infringe," as well as a historical debate over the scope of the founders' intentions with that clause given the "arms" of their time.
It seems to me consistent with general American legal principles that because your right to keep and bear arms comes with the potential to harm my right to live (or my childrens' rights to live, to put a point on it), you should then have some parallel responsibilities to avoid trampling on my rights, and those should not be considered any sort of "infringement" so much as common sense. And it also seems to me that the state and civil society have every right to "infringe" on the *type* of "arms" covered under the second amendment, since a priori I don't think even the most ardent second amendment fundamentalist believes every American has a right to a tactical nuclear weapon or a battle tank, both of which are "arms" by any measure; ergo, what's the difference if we draw the line lower down the scale at, say, a semi-automatic 9mm pistol with a 100 shot clip?
Anyway, don't insinuate that everyone who, in abhorrence of this latest massacre, comes out in favor of some restriction of the "arms" covered by the second amendment and some enforcement of the responsibilities it implies as having some hidden liberal agenda to take away everyone's guns, cuz that's pure-D bullshit paranoid conspiracy theory, UN black helicopter agenda 21 NRA crap. You can be for restrictions on the kinds of arms people can bear without being against their constitutional right to bear other arms. I hunt. I don't want to take away everyone's guns, dude.
And unless you think your idiot neighbor should be able to have napalm-spraying drone planes in his garage, you agree with me.posted by spitbull at 2:54 PM on December 15, 2012 [23 favorites]
Aaaand cue family member advocating for more guns in schools and quoting Wayne fucking LaPierre. I sense an impending unfriending. I called her post stupid and insensitive because the rage just took over. She has four kids, two in that age group. I don't even know how she can live with that much cognitive dissonance.
This is totally selfish at a time when I'm crying because an online friend went to school with someone who lost their son on Friday.
But two things are pissing me off today.
My son's school has lockdown drills. School shootings are incredibly rare in Australia (I think there's been maybe two in 20 years, and they were at universities). But my 11 year old and his friends have to be taught how to hide if someone with a weapon and violent intent storms their small rural school. That's just anti-childhood. When I was a kid, we were taught about 'stranger danger' (before the stats came out that paedophiles are more commonly known to their victims). Now we have to teach our kids how to hide from mad gun-toting lunatics, because there's a news story about yet another massacre in the US regularly?
The second thing is a conversation I had with a friend yesterday. She insisted that it wouldn't have happened if the teachers had been able to carry weapons. No matter what I said, she couldn't understand my point that these people are TEACHERS. On what level is it logical that a kindergarten teacher should have to carry a gun?
On preview: St Alia, hassle your politicians until they adapt something like Australia's gun control system. It ain't perfect, we still have gunshot deaths, but it works a hell of a lot better than the current US model.posted by malibustacey9999 at 2:56 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
What I will say is that I reject the idea that something MUST be done when tragedies like this happen. I don't understand that need because I don't think it's rational.
posted by autobahn
Yeah, you're absolutely right. The rational thing would be to say something must be done BEFORE these tragedies happen.
Angrycat, I respect you for proposing the repeal of the second amendment. Most people don't have the honesty or the guts to come out and say that's what they want.
posted by autobahn at 5:35 PM on December 15
I am so fucking sick of all the conservatives darkly alluding (or outright saying) that liberals just want all the guns banned and leave us weak and unprotected against the Big Bad Government. You want to know why people think you're paranoid maniacs? Because of shit like this!
I wonder sometimes whether these pro-gun advocates have actually thought about the amount of damage one person can do with the more high-powered, automated firepower they're screaming to protect. In the Port Arthur Massacre--the one that precipitated Australia's stricter gun laws--approximately the first 10 people were killed in 5-10 seconds. That is the power of a semiautomatic--just a semiautomatic. More people with guns might have stopped him afterwards--but they would not have saved the first ten people, or the other people he'd continue to kill until our theoretical Heroic Gunman was able to pull out their own gun.
Then I remember that pro-gun advocates know these weapons better than anyone else, and are fully aware of their killing capabilities. And I find that chilling.posted by schroedinger at 3:02 PM on December 15, 2012 [37 favorites]
What I will say is that I reject the idea that something MUST be done when tragedies like this happen. I don't understand that need because I don't think it's rational.
Yeah, let's wait until there are another 32 school massacres. That will be the rational time.posted by dhartung at 3:04 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
You seem to be arguing that the failure of Norway's system implies that stricter rules would not prevent an attack.
And he wasn't undone because he grew a conscience, or whatever. He was undone because he mentioned it on the internet and the police noticed. Had he kept his mouth shut....
Look - I'm not some "Live free or die" love my guns freak or anything. And I agree in the main that guns - particularly handguns - should be much harder to obtain. But that being said, I operate under no illusion that the solution to American Mass Murder is purely legislative. Even under the current legislative regime, flawed as it is, it would be possible to prevent further attacks.
But this : And owning guns is both a symptom and a cause of a breakdown in that trust.
Many of us are sickened even more so about this tragedy because of its proximity to Christmas-it had totally escaped me until I did some browsing around elsewhere on the Internet and saw it mentioned- that in the original Christmas story there was also another slaughter of the innocents( King Herod's order having babies two years old and younger murdered in Bethlehem.)
What an awful, awful, awful irony. If I didn't want to throw up before I sure do now. Rachel weeping for her children, indeed.posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:06 PM on December 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Interview with a 1st. Grade teacher (aka a 'brave angel' IMHO) who barricaded her students in their classroom while the shootings were taking place.
posted by ericb
I wonder if she was the one I just heard interviewed on BBC World Service. I was out shopping, just listening to the news on my headphones, and then she said that she remembered saying to the children in the closet how much she loved them even though she wasn't sure she should be doing that as a teacher but she wanted it to be the last thing they heard if they were going to die and she figured their parents would want her to do that.
One thing that interests me - in a very dark and screwed-up way - is that whenever the Gun Rights advocates come roaring out, there is never any mention of gun responsibility.
None.
It's like the business plan for the Underpants Gnomes: get guns, ?????, COLD DEAD HANDS.
I'll happily go on the record here stating that I do not like guns. I don't want to hold them, I don't want to shoot them, I don't want to be in the same room as them. I am uneasy when I am around cops with sidearms because it's a goddamn gun and that is how much I dislike the things. They are machines designed to make killing easier, that is all, and that gives me one hell of an uncomfortableness.
That said - some people are into them. Okay. I don't get it but I will respect it. The problem that I have is that the only reaction The Gun Culture has to these mass shootings is an immediate othering. "That never should have happened." "That man is obviously insane." "Someone should have locked up the guns." "Arm the teachers." Whatever. There's never any mention of a collective personal responsibility to keep these things from actually being used to put holes in people. You never see anyone say "You know what? Screw this noise. Nobody needs a 100 round mag. I'm getting rid of mine, just in case."
To pull amendments into it: my right to free speech ends where it hurts someone else. I am completely okay with that, because hurting people is Just Not On. Ever. I would love to see gun laws tightened up. Spitbull has some great ideas about what could be done, from the perspective of A Person Who Knows Guns, which I appreciate, since I am not one.
I'd like to see some expectation of responsibility added to the equation, to make sure that the damned things are not used by unhinged madmen wrapped in Kevlar. But it's not there. I find that both telling and frightening.posted by cmyk at 3:13 PM on December 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
Pogo_Fuzzybutt: "But this : And owning guns is both a symptom and a cause of a breakdown in that trust.
Is stupid."
I don't see why. If people right here in this thread have said that one reason they carry guns and other weapons is to protect themselves, and possibly others, in the event of an attack by another person bearing weapons, that's a sign of a fundamental societal distrust. Many people seem to have accepted this fundamental distrust of their fellow man as normal, but it absolutely is not. In a civilized society, although aberrant behavior can always occur, it should not be taken for granted that you might need to defend yourself with a deadly weapon at any moment. It's a symptom of distrust.
And of course, if nobody had weapons, the argument would carry less weight. Many people say that laws are useless because then only law-abiding people would be left defenseless. In this case, they're directly pointing to the cause of their fundamental lack of trust as the fact that many ill-intentioned people own, or have easy access to, firearms.
So saying that gun ownership is both as symptom and a cause of a breakdown in trust doesn't seem to me to be a partisan statement of position, but simply an objective description of the current situation.
The issue then becomes, how do we rebuild trust where it has eroded or been lost? That's the real heart of the matter.posted by Superplin at 3:16 PM on December 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
XQUZYPHYR, thank you for injecting the note into this conversation is that what needs to happen is that we change the culture. An awful lot of discussion assumes that American gun culture is an immutable thing, that the absurdity of gun ownership in this country will remain in place forever. But we know, we've seen this happen with issues like homophobia, racism, and smoking, that cultural norms do shift. Slowly, on a generational time scale, but they can shift. I have no idea what the points of leverage are (putting on my Donella Meadows hat) on our cultural system, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.posted by Numenius at 3:16 PM on December 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am watching Connie Sullivan being interviewed on MSNBC. Another angel!posted by ericb at 3:17 PM on December 15, 2012
Thanks, roomthreeseventeen. I didn't catch the name on the radio and I didn't have the stomach to go to that link and see or hear that story again. She sounded young, and incredibly traumatized. And unbelievably heroic.posted by spitbull at 3:17 PM on December 15, 2012
Earlier MSNBC interviewed a high school student whose family lives next to the school. He heard the gunshots and rushed to the school to locate his 9 y.o. sister. He was able to witness the police, teachers and others -- and was so impressed with how they managed the tragedy. He also mentioned that every teacher in the elementary school has called each of their students this morning to check up on them. "Our teachers are always there and concerned about us."posted by ericb at 3:20 PM on December 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Steal the pictures. Put them all over the internet.posted by wrapper at 3:23 PM on December 15, 2012
I don't see why. If people right here in this thread have said that one reason they carry guns and other weapons is to protect themselves, and possibly others, in the event of an attack by another person bearing weapons, that's a sign of a fundamental societal distrust
I agree so far as you take it.
But I own guns. They aren't for protection, though. They're for hunting and target shooting. Are those uses symptomatic of societal distrust ? I don't agree that they are. Most people I know who have guns have them for the same reason.
Which is my roundabout way of saying that there are legitimate uses for firearms that get overlooked in a mad rush to paint every gun owner as a nutcase.
I've said, in this thread and others, there is much broken with American gun culture and legislation. That said, there is no panacea.posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:28 PM on December 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Seeing the names of all those little six and seven year olds, I keep going back to the news reports of how their parents had to wait in that fire station, watching other parents being reunited with their children, until they were told there were no more children coming home.
No human should ever have to endure that. No one.posted by Dr. Zira at 3:32 PM on December 15, 2012 [33 favorites]
Best thing on my Twitter today: Public school teachers will lay their bodies over your children to protect them. Are you sure you want to cut their pay & benefits?
Worst thing: Stephanie Drury of Stuff Christian Culture likes retweeted several horrible messages she found saying "God needed more angels" and "those kids are celebrating Christmas in Heaven," and then I had to stop reading.posted by emjaybee at 3:33 PM on December 15, 2012 [15 favorites]
Here is something I can share without losing my shit. Two places to donate if you feel that's something you'd like to do.
[I respect that you think we should publicize the horror as a strategy, but describing carnage in graphic detail is just not going to happen here, period.]posted by restless_nomad at 4:13 PM on December 15, 2012 [ |
As Valve works to improve discoverability on Steam, some of its users are taking advantage of a new feature to troll other users and harass developers.
Valve launched Steam Tags yesterday, whereby Steam users can categorize games with any label they can think of, and while some Steam users are using the feature as it was designed, others are already abusing it in a variety of inappropriate and ugly ways.
Steam Tags have only been available for a day, and at this point, the tags on many games tend to be less useful as labels and more indicative of the problems that Steam users have with those games and their developers. Sometimes, people are raising legitimate concerns about a game; other times, they're just trolling.
Numerous threads in Valve's Steam Tagging Beta sub-forum offer comments about issues with Steam Tags. Some individuals are complaining about trolling, such as tags that contain spoilers. Other users point out that tags are often similar or redundant, like "smart game for smart people" and "smart game for smart gamers," both of which are in the first five tags for BioShock Infinite. The general consensus among Steam forum users seems to be that Tags are a good idea, but the implementation needs work.
Perhaps the most significant issue is that some Steam users are taking advantage of the free-form Tags system to make derogatory statements about games and their creators (or derogatory statements in general).
"the initial categorization of items might be a bit off"
Take Gone Home, for instance, the celebrated first-person exploration game from The Fullbright Company. It's unclear if tags are listed in decreasing order of popularity on game pages, but as of this writing, the first five tags on Gone Home's Steam page include the phrases "not a game," "bad" and "overrated," and some others are "walking simulator" and "feminist." The tag "hipster garbage" can be found on the page for Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP from Superbrothers and Capybara Games, as well as the listing for The Tiniest Shark's space-based role-playing game, Redshirt.
The Steam page for Fez, the mind-bending platformer made by the controversial Canadian developer Phil Fish, features a number of tags in which Steam users voice their displeasure with Fish. Among the 20 tags listed on the page are "diva dev," "bipolar" and "tosspot." And the page for Indie Game: The Movie, which focused partly on Fish's struggles to complete Fez, lists tags with more abuse directed at him: "Phil Fish sucks," "choke on it" and "choking hazard."
Valve's Steam Tags FAQ doesn't offer much solace to developers who may feel like tags are being used against them. The company's response to the question "what if I don't agree with a tag that has become popular for my game?" is this: "Tags can be a good indicator of when there is a mismatch between how you perceive your game, and how your game is perceived by customers. Often this is simply because there is some piece of information regarding the game that customers feel is missing from the store page."
It's clear that Valve believes discoverability to be an issue with the massive library of games available in the Steam Store. The Tags system allows Steam users to tag a product with any alphanumeric term or phrase as long as it doesn't contain profanity, and supports any language that Steam does. Valve notes in its Tags FAQ that the feature is currently in beta, primarily because the company needs to build up a sizable set of data before the system works as intended. Until then, says Valve, "the initial categorization of items might be a bit off until we see what kind of tags are becoming prevalent and tune the system for the best results."
We've reached out to Valve for comment, and will update this article with any information we receive.
Update: The original Actual Steam Tags blog on Tumblr that this story previously referred to doesn't exist anymore, and someone else has taken over the URL. We've edited the article to remove mentions of the site. |
INTRODUCTION {#s1}
============
For decades, mastectomy has been both the most common surgical treatment for stage I/II breast cancer (BC) and the preferred treatment for loco-regional disease. Alternatively, treatments may also consist in a combination of breast conserving surgery (BCS) plus radiotherapy (RT). Indeed, several prospective randomized clinical trials have demonstrated that this combination approach provides local control and patient survival rates equivalent to those observed with mastectomy \[[@R1]\].
Nevertheless, about 17% of patients treated with BCS plus RT develop ipsilateral breast tumor recurrence (IBTR) within 20 years of treatment \[[@R2]\]. The IBTR risk is the highest during the first 5 years following treatment, with an incidence rate of 5--10% \[[@R3]\]. Furthermore, patients that developed IBTR or loco-regional recurrence (LRR) have a significantly poorer prognosis \[[@R4]\].
Over the last decades, significant advances in systemic treatments along with a new classification of BC subtypes have increased the interest for predictors of recurrence in BC patients that have received treatments.
Several studies conducted in Europe and North America have analyzed clinical and histopathologic factors associated to an increased risk of BC recurrence. However, to the best of our knowledge such studies are yet to be reported in the Chilean population. Therefore, the aim of our study was to identify risk factors for loco-regional breast tumor recurrence in Chilean women with invasive BC.
RESULTS {#s2}
=======
Patient characteristics {#s2_1}
-----------------------
A total of 2,754 patients were treated for BC in the period 1997--2016, within this group 2,201 had information about local control and were included into this study. Patient median follow up time for OS was 61 months. Median follow up for local control was 32.6 months (range 0--285). Main characteristics of patients, tumor and received treatments are summarized in Table [1](#T1){ref-type="table"}. As shown in Figure [1A](#F1){ref-type="fig"} 5-year OS was 94.2% (95% CI 93--95.3).
###### Patient, tumor and treatment characteristics
Characteristic *N* Median/(Range)
----------------------------- --------- ----------------
Age 2198 55/ (19-101)
**Characteristic** ***N*** **%**
**Breast surgery**
Lumpectomy 1467 66.7
Mastectomy 593 26.9
Unknown 141 6.4
**Axillar surgery**
SLND 985 44.8
AD 1016 46.2
Unknown 200 9.1
**Tumor Stage**
1 814 37
2 804 36.5
3 367 16.7
4 46 2.1
Unknown 170 7.7
**Tumor Subtype**
Luminal A 951 43.2
Luminal B 585 26.6
HER2-enriched 117 5.3
Triple-negative 225 10.2
Unknown 323 14.7
**Margins**
Positive 90 4.1
Negative 671 30.5
Unknown 1440 65.4
**Vascular invasion**
Positive 540 24.5
Negative 563 25.6
Unknown 1098 49.9
**Adjuvant Chemotherapy**
No 857 38.9
Yes 897 40.8
Unknown 447 20.3
**Adjuvant Radiotherapy**
No 185 8.4
Yes 1375 62.5
Unknown 641 29.1
**Adjuvant Hormonotherapy**
No 285 12.9
Yes 1005 45.7
Unknown 911 41.4
Abbreviations: SLND: sentinel lymph node dissection. AD: axillar dissection.
{#F1}
Locoregional control {#s2_2}
--------------------
Figure [1B](#F1){ref-type="fig"} shows that 2-year LRC was 98% (95% CI 97.3--98.7) and 5-year was 94% (95% CI 92.6--95.4). Overall, 108 out of 2,198 (5.3%) patients displayed BC recurrence, with a median time of recurrence: 66 months after surgery. The site of recurrence was available in 50 cases, and the most frequent site was the same quadrant of the breast (*N* = 18), followed by chest wall (14), and the axila (8), SCV was the first local recurrence in 6 patients, 3 presented a recurrence in the same breast but in a different quadrant and 1 had an internal mammary recurrence.
Predicting loco-regional recurrence {#s2_3}
-----------------------------------
A summary of the results of an univariate analysis for loco-regional recurrence is shown in Table [2](#T2){ref-type="table"}. Briefly, loco-regional control at 2 and 5 years were 98% (95% CI 96.8--99.1) and 91% (95% CI 88--93.9) respectively for patients aged \<50. For patients that were ≥50 years these values were 98% (95% CI 97--98.9) and 96% (95% CI 94.6--97.4), respectively (Figure [2A](#F2){ref-type="fig"}. *p* = 0.0013). Loco-regional control by surgical margin status is presented in Figure [2B](#F2){ref-type="fig"}. Univariate analysis showed that age, surgical margin status, lymphovascular invasion (LVI), breast cancer subtype, advanced stage (Stage III or IV) were predictors of regional recurrence.
###### Univariate analysis
Variable HR (IC) *p*
------------------ -------------------- ----------
Age \<50 1.58 (1.096--2.28) 0.0013
Margin ± 2.57 (1.00--6.58) 0.049
Stage II vs I 1.62 (0.96-- 2.76) NS
Stage III vs I 2.98 (1.69--5.3) \<0.001
Stage IV vs I 12.98 (4.86--34.7) \<0.001
BCS vs MT 0.85 (0.57-- 1.27) NS
LV invasion + 2.99 (1.52-- 5.9) 0.001
Luminal B vs LA 2.87 (1.64--5.05) \<0.001
Her2 + vs LA 5.88 (2.74--12.65) \<0.001
Triple neg vs LA 4.49 (2.3--8.5) \<0.001
Non-LA vs LA 3.56 (2.14--5.92) \<0.001
HT vs no HT 0.42 (0.27--0.65) \< 0.001
RT vs no RT 0.27 (0.17--0.42) \<0.001
No ACT vs ACT 1.0 (0.67--1.51) NS
Abbreviations: BCS = breast conserving surgery, MT = Mastectomy, LV = lymphovascular invasion, LA = Luminal A, Triple neg = Triple negative, Non-LA = non luminal A subtype (LB, triple neg and Her2+ combined) HT = Hormonal therapy, RT = Radiotherapy, ACT = Adjuvant chemotherapy.
{#F2}
A Kaplan Meier analysis is shown in Figure [2C](#F2){ref-type="fig"}. LRR rates at 2 and 5 years were 99% (95% CI 98.2--99.7) and 97% (95% 94.8--99.1) without LVI; and 97% (95% CI 95.2--98.7) and 90% (95% CI 86.2--93.7) respectively with LVI (*p* = 0.001).
Next, LRC rates according to BC subtypes were analyzed. Within the luminal A subtype LRC rates at 2 and 5 years were 99.4% (95% CI 98.8--99.9) and 98.3% (95% CI 97.1--99.4) respectively. For luminal B, LRC at 2 and 5 years were 94.6% (95% CI 96--99.1) and 93.1% (95% CI 90.1--96). For HER2 enriched, LRC at 2 and 5 years were 92.5% (95% CI56--98.9) and 88.2% (95% CI 79.7--96.6). Finally, for triple negative, LRC rates at 2 and 5 years were 94.9% (95% CI 91.3--98.4) and 88.3% (95% CI 82.6--93.9), (Figure [3A](#F3){ref-type="fig"}).
{#F3}
Compared with Luminal A type, we obtained significant difference for all the subtypes (*p* \< 0.001). With Luminal B (HR 2.875; 95% IC 1.64--5.05), HER2 positive (HR 5.88; 95% CI 2.74--12.65), triple negative (HR 4.496; 95% CI 2.3--8.5) *p ≤* 0.001. If grouped together, Luminal A compared with non Luminal A (HR 0.281; 95% CI 0.17--0.47; *p* \< 0.001) favors Luminal A type *p* \< 0.001, Figure [3B](#F3){ref-type="fig"}.
Notably, no association was found between risk of loco-regional recurrence and type of surgery (*p* = 0.43) or adjuvant chemotherapy (*p* = 0.978, Figure [4A](#F4){ref-type="fig"}). Conversely, adjuvant hormonotherapy (HR 0.418; 95% CI 0.27--0.65; *p* \< 0.001, Figure [4B](#F4){ref-type="fig"}) or adjuvant RT 0.27 (0.17--0.42) *p* \< 0.001, Figure [4C](#F4){ref-type="fig"}), were associated to better disease control. Patients at risk by subgroup is presented in [Supplementary Table 1](#SD1){ref-type="supplementary-material"}.
{#F4}
Patient who didn\'t receive adjuvant hormone therapy had higher LRC than those who did. The LRC rate at 2 and 5 years were 93.8% (95% CI 90.6--96.9%) and 88.8% (95% IC 84.2--93.3%) and 98.9% (95% CI 98.1--99.6) and 95.8% (95% CI 94.2--97.3) respectively *p* \< 0.001. Adjuvant RT, also favored LRC control. The LRC at 2 and 5 years were 89.7% (95% CI 84.6--94.8) and 83.6% (95%CI 76.7--90.4) for those without RT and 98.8% (95% CI 98.2--99.4) and 95.8% (95% CI 94.4--97.1) for those with adjuvant RT *p* \< 0.001.
The use of adjuvant chemotherapy was not associated to local recurrence (*p* = 0.978).
Finally, variables that were statistically significant (*p* \< 0.05) were then entered into the multivariate analysis, however as shown in Table [3](#T3){ref-type="table"} only the absence of adjuvant RT maintained statistical significance: (HR 6.588: 95% CI 2.1--19.9; *p* \< 0.001).
###### Multivariate analysis
Multivariate *p* HR (95% CI)
------------------------------------- ------- -------------------
Age \< 50 years 0.823 1.1 (0.4--2.8)
Positive surgical margins 0.2 2.163 (0.6--7.1)
Positive lymphovascular permeations 0.213 2.171 (0.6--7.3)
Stage I vs. --- ---
Stage II 0.923 1.06 (0.3--4)
Stage III 0.099 3.246 (0.8--13.1)
Stage IV 0.152 5.45 (0.5--55--5)
Luminal A 0.193 0.482 (0.2--1.4)
No adjuvant RT 0.001 6.588 (2.1--19.9)
DISCUSSION {#s3}
==========
In this study, we evaluated risk factors that determine loco-regional BC recurrence in a Chilean group of patients. To the best of our knowledge this is the first and the largest study of its kind in Chile.. Our study covers a long period of time of almost two decades (19 years), over this period we have seen significant advances in BC treatment. Evidently, local recurrence is a rather infrequent event, unless it is measured over a longer time period in order to capture a larger number of events, thereby introducing some heterogeneity into the collected data. Indeed, first we explored potential differences in loco-regional recurrence over two time periods 1997--2004 vs 2004--2016 and we did not find significant differences (not shown, Log rank 0.197).
Our data show that 5-year LRR control rate was 94%, similar to previous reports \[[@R5]\]. Also in agreement with previous studies loco-regional control was better in older patients (\>50 year-old) \[[@R6]--[@R7]\]. Similarly, positive surgical margin status is commonly associated to an increase in the risk of, ipsilateral breast recurrence (HR 2.51) \[[@R8]\], and poorer prognoses.
Regarding BC subtypes, HER2+ was associated to higher LRR rates, again confirming published results from the literature \[[@R9]--[@R10]\] and suggesting a poor response of this subtype to conventional therapies. However, the use of trastuzumab in these patients improves clinical outcomes and increases the sensitivity to RT \[[@R11]--[@R12]\]. Our institution incorporated trastuzumab in 2011 when it became covered by medical insurance in our country.
Previous studies have suggested a relationship between BC subtypes and response rate to RT. Indeed, Luminal A is usually associated to better response; in contrast HER2+ cancers are considered less responsive to RT \[[@R13]\]. Despite this, a recent randomized trial demonstrates that BC subtype was not predictive of RT response, similar to our results (not shown).
Along the years of the study, RT was administered using two regimens: standard treatment, that consists of a 50 Gy dose in 25 daily fractions over 5 weeks; or hypofractionated, consisting on 15--16 fractions over 3 weeks, with or without a boost. Adjuvant RT in our study had an impact on loco-regional control, HR 0.269 (95%CI 0.172--0.42), as reported previously \[[@R14]\]. The most frequent sites of loco-regional recurrence were the breast and the chest wall followed by the supraclavicular and the axilla. One patient displayed regional recurrence in internal mammary.
Our univariate analysis showed significant associations between age, surgical margin, stage, molecular subtype, LVI status and adjuvant RT with LRR but multivariate analysis was the only variable significantly associated with local recurrence. Despite these results, our findings must be interpreted cautiously, mainly due to a relatively small number of cases/events and the amount of missing/lost data. In addition to this, our study has a number of other limitations: first, it is a retrospective study based at a single center, second the recruiting period time was long enough (almost 20 years) to experience changes in classifications and standard treatments, the incorporation of subtype was based on modified UC criteria, third biopsies were done by local pathologists and we did not have a centralized pathology review. Some patient information regarding chemotherapy schemes, hormone therapy and RT was either not available or highly heterogeneous in some cases. Finally, there is a possibility that some patients might have had follow ups or receive treatments in other medical centers, in these cases recurrent disease could not have been recorded, all these limitations have to be considered and therefore the interpretation of our results should be done with caution.
MATERIALS AND METHODS {#s4}
=====================
Study design {#s4_1}
------------
This was a retrospective study of the medical records of invasive BC patients treated between 1997 and 2016 at the Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile and the Red de Salud UC Christus.
Our study was performed in compliance with the Declaration of Helsinki. All procedures, along with permission to access the databases were approved by the local research ethics committee at the Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile. Due to the retrospective and therefore non-interventional nature of this study no written informed consent were requested by the local research committee.
Patients were included if they were treated for invasive BC regardless of histology type, or any kind of surgery (Mastectomy or BCS) for their primary and adjuvant treatments according to local guidelines. Patients with no information on loco-regional BC recurrence were excluded.
Patient characteristics were assessed at the time of diagnosis and included: age, tumor size, axillary involvement, margin status (negative margin was defined by no ink on tumor) and lympho-vascular invasion.
Pathological reports from the primary tumor were reviewed regarding histological type, tumor size, nodal compromise and histological grade, according to Elston & Ellis \[[@R15]\]. Receptor status was determined via immunohistochemistry. Estrogen and progesterone receptors (ER and PR respectively) were defined as positive when ≥1% of tumor cells showed nuclear positive staining. Tumors that had a HER2 score of 3+ were considered HER2+ \[[@R16]\]. For HER2 2+, a fluorescence *in situ* hybridization study was done. Since in our center Ki67 is not routinely indicated, it was excluded from our analyses. Tumor stage was determined according to the guidelines of the American Joint Committee on Cancer 7th \[[@R17]\]. Tumors were classified into 4 subtypes according to immunohistochemistry markers and histological grade, as described \[[@R18]\]. Luminal A (ER+ and/or PR+, HG 1--2, HER2-), Luminal B (ER+ and/or PR+, HG 3 and/or HER2+), triple negative (ER-, PR- and HER2-) and HER2-enriched (ER- and PR-, HER2+).
Patients were treated according to local guidelines. Briefly, early stage BC were treated with BCS and RT. Loco-regional advanced BC were treated with mastectomy with or without adjuvant RT or neoadjuvant chemotherapy followed by breast surgery and RT. Patients with clinically negative axilla has sentinel lymph node dissection, if this was positive, patient has axillary dissection. Radiotherapy dosing was 50 Gy in 25 fractions to the breast/chest wall ± regional lymph nodes if indicated. Boost was 10 Gy in 5 fractions. Since 2010 an increasing percentage of early stage BC have been treated with hypofractionated RT of 42.5 Gy in 16 fractions.
All patient cases were discussed at a breast multidisciplinary board in order to decide the best adjuvant treatment. Chemotherapy was recommended for patients with a \>1.0 cm diameter triple negative BC, and for ER+ BC with extensive positive axilla. Trastuzumab was recommended for HER2+ BC. Radiotherapy was indicated for patients with BCS and patients with mastectomy and + lymph nodes.
Follow-up time started at the day of diagnosis. Patients were followed-up every three months during the first year, every four months during the second year, and every six months at the third to fifth year and then yearly. Clinical examination was performed in every visit. Mammography was performed yearly for patients with BCS, breast ultrasound was added for patients with a dense breast.
Statistical analysis {#s4_2}
--------------------
Loco-regional failure was defined as any evidence of recurrence in the same breast or regional lymph nodes (including axillary, supraclavicular or internal mammary). The Kaplan--Meier method was used for survival analysis. For univariate analysis log rank test was used. Exploratory subgroup analysis was done for age (\<50 years), positive margins, vascular invasion, AJCC stage, molecular surrogate subtype, adjuvant hormonal therapy, adjuvant chemotherapy, type of breast surgery
We used Cox proportional hazard regression model for multivariate analysis. Data analysis was performed using IBM SPSS version 19.
CONCLUSIONS {#s5}
===========
To date, this is the largest study that assesses BC recurrence risk factors and OS in Chilean women. Our data obtained from an academic center suggest a high loco-regional control rate in patients (\>94 %). As expected, patients that were: \<50-year-old, had positive surgical margins, advanced stage, a non-Luminal A subtype, had LVI or did not receive adjuvant RT had an increased risk for LRR. Future prospective and multicentric studies with long-term follow up periods should expand and confirm our findings.
SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIALS FIGURES AND TABLES {#s6}
==========================================
**CONFLICTS OF INTEREST**
None.
|
Dresden Altarpiece
The Dresden Altarpiece is a triptych by German Renaissance artists Albrecht Dürer, executed between 1496 and 1497, and perhaps continued in 1503-1504. It is housed in the Gemäldegalerie Alte Meister of Dresden, Germany.
History
The painting was one of the first commissions received from Frederick III, Elector of Saxony, together with the Seven Sorrows Polyptych and the Portrait of Frederick III of Saxony. Dürer knew the elector during the latter's short stay in Nuremberg in April 1496.
The work was destined to the chapel in the Wittenberg Castle and, initially, should include only the central panel with a Virgin and Child. The use of tempera (in an area where oil painting was already common) was perhaps connected to the need of a quick completion
In 1503–1504, perhaps in the wake of a plague, two side shutters were added: these were painted with St. Sebastian, patron of the infected, and St. Anthony the Abbot, the protector against ergotism. The dating and the attribution of the side panels is disputed.
Description
Differently from most contemporary triptychs, the side shutters could not be closed due to the use of a canvas. The central scene depicts the Madonna Adoring the Child, who sleeps on a cushion over a wide parapet. A book (symbolizing the Holy Texts) lies next to him, together with a pear, an allegory of the original sin. Mary's appearance resembles that in Dieric Bouts' works, as well as those by Squarcione and Mantegna. It is likely that she is a portrait of Dürer's wife, Agnes Frey.
The room behind Mary is rendered in wide angle perspective. It opens on another room, with St. Joseph's workshop, while a city landscape appears from a window. The upper part of the scene is populated by angels: some holds Mary's floating crown, while other are spreading incense from thuribles. The side panels also contain numerous puttoes in the background. Their style difference could indicate the intervention of assistants.
References
Sources
Category:Paintings by Albrecht Dürer
Category:1490s paintings
Category:Collections of the Gemäldegalerie Alte Meister
Category:Paintings depicting Jesus
Category:Paintings of the Virgin Mary
Category:Triptychs
Category:Books in art |
Thursday, 6 March 2014
The Questionable Morality Of The Puritans
Following on from my last post, I want to relay a story ... and there is a moral to this story.
It is no secret that I am a big supporter of electronic cigarettes. I personally think they are the best invention for smoking cessation in our lifetime and certainly helped me to completely quit the tobacco habit that I had for the majority of my adult life.
For that reason, I cannot understand the blind ignorance and sheer bloody-minded puritanical attitude of Public Health and bodies like WHO and the BMA - all of whose mantra is supposed to be 'Do No Harm'.
However, rather than rant on about ecigarettes, in this blog entry I am going to relay a moral story which (ironically) dates back to my days as a smoker.
Back in the days before the smoking ban, I was privileged to make the acquaintance of two charming old gentleman who used to frequent my local pub every afternoon between 5pm and 8pm. Every day, they met there like clockwork and I got to know these two gentleman very well.
You see, both these gentleman were World War II veterans.
One had served with the Navy and had survived his battleship being sunk in the Atlantic, as well as taking part in some of the most pivotal sea-battles of the war.
The second gentleman had served as a tail-gunner on Lancaster bombers in the RAF. The tail-gunner was recognised as being the most perilous position on any bomber as most fighter-aircraft attacked from the rear. He was lucky in that his plane was never shot down. However, he had witnessed first hand the horror of watching his comrades blown from the sky in the many raids over Germany that he had taken part in.
Having survived the horrors of World War II, preserving the freedoms that later generations take for granted, all these men wanted to do was live the rest of their lives out in peace. Their greatest pleasure in the twilight of their lives was to meet up every day for 3 hours and enjoy each others company for a few beers. They asked for nothing and were always amiable and approachable, chatting with anyone who came their way. They were well-known and greatly respected by all who drank at the Pub. We all knew who they were and what they done for this country. We all made sure they were well looked after, even ensuring they had a taxi home every evening (especially if they 'over-indulged' - which did occasionally happen !!). They never really spoke in detail about their war experiences other than what they did in the war and (if enough beers were inside them) share the battle-scars and the stories around them. The real horror they refused to talk about (in common with many veterans).
Apart from the beers and chat, the other pleasure that both these gentleman enjoyed was to have a smoke with their beers. One was a cigar smoker, whilst the other enjoyed his pipe. Neither of these gentleman smoked at home. That was saved for when they came down to the pub for a natter and a few beers. I still fondly remember the faces of those gentlemen laughing at the bar jokes and putting about the odd wind-up of each other and of the regulars at the bar. They had fought for their freedoms and they made damn sure they enjoyed those freedoms.
Then the smoking ban arrived. It arrived a year earlier in Wales than it did in England, but it's effect was just as devastating. As soon as the smoking ban came in, neither of these gentlemen was ever seen in the pub again. The ONE pleasure they had left in life was extinguished at the stroke of a bureaucrat's (aided by Public Health) pen. Those men and their generation has given everything to fight for this country, to protect those they loved, to maintain the FREEDOMS that are supposed to be ours by right in the UK. All taken away by people who had no right to do so.
I have no idea if those two gentlemen are still with us. But I do remember them very well. My memory of them will live on.
Now several years later, the smoking ban is well established and is grudgingly accepted by all (after all, what choice do we have ?). But now we see similar parallels happening in our fight for the right to continue vaping on ecigarettes.
You see, us vapers CARE about our health and we CARE about our families, friends and acquaintances. Yes, we may be ex-smokers. But the emphasis must remain on the EX of that statement. We enjoy nicotine in the same way as others enjoy alcohol or caffeine. We KNOW smoking is damaging to our health. But the enjoyment we get from nicotine is no less relevant than the enjoyment others get from caffeine or alcohol.
Through ecigarettes, we have found a way to continue to enjoy nicotine. We are doing neither harm to ourselves or to anyone else by using our ecigarettes. This fact is SCIENTIFICALLY proven.
So why the hell won't the politicians, public health, the BMA, WHO etc LEAVE US ALONE ?
It is OUR lives. These are OUR bodies. What we choose to do with them is OUR business, not theirs. I am sick to death of the lies and misinformation that emanates from these so-called experts. The puritanical attitude of these people makes me SICK. They just cannot bear to think that somebody out there might actually be enjoying themselves.
For those who are fervently against either tobacco cigarettes or electronic cigarettes, just remember that we are the ones being persecuted today. If we let them persecute us, then tomorrow they will trying to ban your alcohol or caffeine to the annals of history. Already in the press we are seeing Public Health people calling for taxes on SUGAR for christ sake. These people will not stop because with each battle they win, they have to find another one to fight or else they lose their funding.
To paraphrase the well-known blogger - Dick Puddlecote, they are all rent-seeking parasites.
In this age of austerity, this country could be saving MILLIONS if they stopped funding these puritanical parasites instead of picking on the sick or disabled for their savings.
Vapers cost this country NOTHING. We buy our own gear. We harm nobody - neither ourselves or anyone else with our habit. We support a plethora of SME's (small and medium sized enterprises) that have sprung up around the country and that provide employment to their locality. FFS, we are supporting growth in business and jobs, and putting money into the economy. In a SANE world, what we do would be welcomed.
But this is not a sane world. It is an INSANE world where those very freedoms for which those two aging gentlemen and their generation fought and, in far too many cases, paid the ultimate price.
Let's honour those gentlemen and their comrades by celebrating our freedoms, not meekly surrendering them to the idealistic, puritanical parasites that live in the Public Domains mentioned above.
About Me
I was born in Wales way back in the year of 1963. I am bilingual - fluent in both Welsh and English - but can also lay claim to having some limited conversational abilities in French, Dutch and German.
My favourite sport is Rugby Union, which I played for more than 30 years until forced to retire due to injury. Consequently, I am a bit bigger than your average guy in that I am 6 foot tall and currently weigh 170lbs.
I am an accomplished musician having played in several brass bands and orchestras, therefore I can play a multitude of musical instruments. |
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Corky Miller
Corky Abraham Phillip Miller (born March 18, 1976) is a former catcher in Major League Baseball and currently coaches the Dayton Dragons, the A-affiliate of the Cincinnati Reds. He played in Major League Baseball (MLB) for the Cincinnati Reds, Minnesota Twins, Boston Red Sox, Atlanta Braves and Chicago White Sox.
Miller saw action in parts of 11 seasons in the major leagues and he played in parts of 17 seasons in the minor leagues, batting a cumulative .193 whilst in the majors and .248 in the minors. He played in a franchise-record ten seasons with the Louisville Bats, the AAA-affiliate of the Cincinnati Reds from 2001 to 2004, then again from 2009 to 2014, and is currently the Louisville franchise's all-time leader in games played with 548.
High school career
Miller was a star baseball and football player at Yucaipa High School in Yucaipa, California. His accolades include first-team All-State and All-CIF (California Interscholastic Federation) honors while leading the T-Birds to the CIF titles in 1993 and 1994. He was also first-team All-CIF in football. He was inducted into the Yucaipa High School Hall of Fame in 2009.
College career
After high school, Miller was drafted by the California Angels in the 23rd round (629th overall) of the 1994 Major League Baseball Draft, but he did not sign, opting to attend the University of Nevada, Reno. Miller was a career .356 hitter in his two seasons for the Wolf Pack (1997 and 1998). Miller led the team in hitting in 1998 with a .377 batting average. His on-base percentages in two seasons were .470 in 1997 and .514 in 1998. He owns the school's single-season record for getting hit by a pitch (28 in 1998) and he was hit 54 times in his two seasons.
Professional career
First stint with Reds
Miller signed with the Cincinnati Reds as an undrafted free agent in 1998. Miller played for the Billings Mustangs, in Billings Montana. He made his Major League debut at age 25 on September 4, 2001, in a 7-1 Reds home loss to the Houston Astros, a game which he started and went hitless in three at-bats. He got his first big-league hit six days later, a single off Tony McKnight in a 3-1 road loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Miller remained with the Reds organization through 2004.
Minnesota Twins
Miller played in five games with 12 plate appearances for the Minnesota Twins in 2005. In 2005, he also pitched for the first time in a professional game with the Twins AAA-affiliate the Rochester Red Wings. (He has since pitched a number of times—using a knuckleball—for the Louisville Bats.)
Boston Red Sox
He was signed by the Boston Red Sox on April 25, 2006, and added to the Pawtucket Red Sox Triple-A roster. Miller was promoted to Boston on August 5, , but his tenure in Boston would not last long. After appearing in just one game (a 7-6 defeat against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays on August 6, 2006), Miller would be designated for assignment on August 14, 2006, to make room for Craig Breslow, who was promoted from Pawtucket.
Atlanta Braves
Miller was granted free agency after the season and signed a minor league contract with the Atlanta Braves.
On July 31, , the Braves called up Miller to fill up the backup catcher role after previous backup catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia was traded that day. He made his debut on August 2, hitting a pinch-hit infield single. On August 5, Miller hit a game-tying RBI double, his first extra-base hit since , against the Colorado Rockies. On September 15, Miller hit his first home run since 2002.
On August 1, , Miller was designated for assignment, and was eventually sent outright to the minors. He returned to the Braves' active roster on September 1.
Chicago White Sox
Miller became a free agent following the 2008 season and signed a minor league contract with the Chicago White Sox.
As a non-roster invitee to White Sox spring training, Miller impressed enough to be awarded the back-up catcher's role to A. J. Pierzynski. In his first regular season game for the White Sox on April 11, 2009 (vs. the Minnesota Twins) Miller went 2-4, with 2 RBI and a run scored. The game resulted in an 8-0 White Sox victory.
Subsequent stints with Reds organization
2009
On June 26, 2009, Miller was traded to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder Norris Hopper. On August 25, 2009, Miller was called up to the Cincinnati Reds from the Louisville Bats. He became a free agent following the season, but re-signed to a minor league deal.
2010
Miller started the 2010 season not on the Reds 40-man roster, but after the injury of Ryan Hanigan, he was placed on the active roster and took over backup duties to Ramón Hernández. He continued to fill the backup role, now with Hanigan and Hernandez switching spots on the disabled list. His starts came mostly as catcher for the Reds' young arms, such as Travis Wood and Matt Maloney, since he caught them in Louisville. He was outrighted back to Louisville on July 22, 2010, after Hanigan came back from the DL. Miller was called up on September 1. The Reds outrighted him from the roster in the offseason and he refused his assignment, becoming a free agent. They re-signed him to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.
2013
On April 21, 2013, Miller was promoted to the Reds, replacing the injured Ryan Hanigan. He made his first start of the season on April 23, 2013, against the Chicago Cubs. The Reds lost this game in extra innings. On May 10, 2013, Miller was outrighted back to Louisville, after Hanigan was activated from the DL. He was called up by the Reds again on July 11, 2013, after placing Hanigan on the disabled list again. On August 7 Miller started behind the plate and hit two RBI doubles in the game before leaving in the fifth inning after a home plate collision; he was later placed on the 15-day disabled list. Miller played in a total of 17 games with the Reds in 2013.
At the conclusion of the 2013 regular season, the Reds outrighted him from the roster. He refused his assignment, becoming a free agent. However, during the Reds annual Redsfest an unsigned Miller appeared signing autographs. Miller would resign to a minor league deal with the Reds the next day.
2014
Miller started the 2014 season in Triple-A Louisville. Miller served as a primary catcher for the Bats due to Tucker Barnhart starting the season in Cincinnati with Devin Mesoraco on the DL. On April 13, 2014, while pitching for the Bats, Miller used a knuckleball to strike out a batter.
Miller was placed on the inactive list in May before being placed on the disabled list in June for a back strain. The Bats announced on August 5, 2014 that they would retire Miller's jersey. Corky Miller is known to many Louisville Bats baseball fans for his mustache, but he’ll be remembered by his No. 8 jersey, the first to be retired by the franchise. Who at the time of his retirement held the franchise record for number of games played.
Coaching career
Corky Miller was added to the Reds single A affiliate team, Dayton Dragons coaching staff for the 2015 season. Miller joined manager Jose Nieves, pitching coach Tom Browning, and hitting coach Luis Bolivar on the Dragons staff. Miller would also visit other Reds affiliates on select dates in a catching instructor role in 2015. "We are excited to transition Corky Miller onto our Minor League coaching staff in 2015," said Jeff Graupe, Reds Director of Player Development. "Corky will be based out of Dayton and will split his time working with the Dragons and roving around our system developing our catchers.
References
External links
Category:1976 births
Category:Living people
Category:Baseball players from California
Category:Major League Baseball catchers
Category:Cincinnati Reds players
Category:Minnesota Twins players
Category:Boston Red Sox players
Category:Atlanta Braves players
Category:Chicago White Sox players
Category:Chattanooga Lookouts players
Category:Louisville RiverBats players
Category:Louisville Bats players
Category:Rochester Red Wings players
Category:Rockford Reds players
Category:Billings Mustangs players
Category:Pawtucket Red Sox players
Category:Tacoma Rainiers players
Category:Charlotte Knights players
Category:Richmond Braves players
Category:Nevada Wolf Pack baseball players
Category:People from Yucaipa, California |
Before and after photographs from around the world have shown the effect the almost-global lockdown is having on pollution levels.
With far fewer planes in the air and cars on the road during strict measures to stop the spread of coronavirus, cities which were once filled with smog now look like they have much cleaner air.
Use the slider on the images below to see the before and after pictures.
The skyline in Venice, Italy, has become more visible, in a country which has some of the most severe lockdown restrictions.
One of the most dramatic changes can be seen in the city of Milan in the region of Lombardy which has been very badly hit by COVID-19.
Where pollution once hindered the view of the Italian Alps, the mountain range is now clear to see.
In India, one of the most polluted countries in the world, the lockdown has almost completely revealed the blue skies above Delhi - where the smog normally meant you could not see very far at all.
Indonesia is another one of the world's most polluted countries which has seen its skylines dramatically change thanks to the lockdown restrictions.
Pakistan, the second most polluted country in the world, according to IQ Air, has also seen a transformative effect on its pollution levels.
In the capital Islamabad, despite the low light levels, you can see far further than before the coronavirus pandemic. |
Windows 8 said to be a necessary gamble for Microsoft - maudlinmau5
http://www.bgr.com/2012/09/24/windows-8-analysis-microsoft-making-needed-risky-changes/
======
mertd
> Microsoft eras seem to run about 20 years, so the technology underlying
> Windows 8 will last a long, long time.”
Isn't Win8 still NT kernel? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT#Releases>
|
1. Technical Field
Aspects of the invention relate to a communication system configured with an information-processing device that receives contents, an information-providing server that sends the contents, and a management server that checks whether the contents to be received by the information-processing device exist in the information-providing server being interconnected via a network, and one or more techniques in relation to the communication system.
2. Related Art
Recently, a transmission service in which contents such as news are periodically sent via an internet has widely been used. Such a transmission service is provided with an information-processing device at a side of a user of the transmission service being connected with a server that sends the contents via the internet. The information-processing device sends a transmission request for requesting to send the contents to the server at intervals of a predetermined period in the transmission service, and receives the contents sent from the server in response to the transmission request. Namely, a technique called “polling” is employed. |
Brand consultant Suhel Seth has been uncharacteristically silent since a storm of sexual harassment allegations broke against him on social media this month. He has not posted a single tweet since October 10, when two women publicly accused him of forcibly groping and kissing them. Since then, five other women have spoken about his alleged misbehaviour. One woman said she hit back by biting his tongue and squeezing his genitals.
To these accusations, Seth, who is never at a loss for words in TV debates, has offered no response. He did not reply to Scroll.in’s emails and text messages. His phone was switched off.
Several men accused of sexual harassment this month have faced serious professional consequences – some have resigned from their jobs, a few have been served notices by industry associations. In Seth’s case, other than his silence, the impact of the allegations against him is unclear.
This is partly because Seth’s work is not easy to pin down. He is the founder and managing partner of Counselage India, which advises CEOs on how to build their brands. But his influence stretches far beyond the firm. On Twitter, where he has around 4.85 million followers, he describes himself as a marketing maven, actor and author. “Some people are famous for being famous. Suhel Seth is famous for knowing the famous,” journalist Mihir Sharma wrote in a review of Seth’s 2011 book Get to the Top: The Ten Rules for Social Success.
With Ratan Tata. Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. April 16, 2016
While Seth flaunts his friendships, his client list is not public. So far, the only acknowledgement of the allegations against Seth has come from the Tata Group. A spokesperson for the conglomerate said it would decide a future course of action after examining the recent reports about Seth’s conduct.
In the larger public sphere, the allegations against Seth have not elicited any surprise, barring a defence by columnist Tavleen Singh, who said his reputation had been “unfairly smeared”. Part of the reason is the image Seth has cultivated. In 2003, he celebrated his 40th birthday by cutting a breast-shaped birthday cake, journalist Sagarika Ghose wrote in The Indian Express. In a blog published by the Economic Times in 2016, Seth boasted about the benefits of travelling as a single man. “Single men get great rooms in hotels. Because we are nice to the bird at check-in,” he wrote. An interview he gave to The Times of India in 2015 begins with an introduction: “Suhel Seth may feel like he is 21, but in reality, he is 52 years old. He believes in Churchill’s saying that a man is only as old as the woman he feels. So, when we asked him how old was the youngest woman he had been with at the age of 52, he immediately said 22.”
With Arun Jaitley. Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. June 8, 2015
Most of Seth’s accusers are young women in their 20s and 30s. They have recounted at length, both on social media as well in interviews to Scroll.in, how Seth allegedly harassed them in incidents that took place between 2009 and 2017.
Questions emailed to Seth did not elicit a response for four days. The website of Counselage India showed an error message. The only available email address for Counselage India turned out to be that of its audit firm, which responded to say it was not “in way involved with the internal functioning or day to day operations of Counselage”.
This story will be updated if a response is received from Seth or Counselage.
With Nita Ambani. Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. August 21, 2016
From Kolkata to Delhi
Born in Kolkata in 1963, the story that Seth tells of his childhood in the interview to The Times of India is of growing up as the child of a chemical factory-owner, who went out of business “because of unions and strikes and the naxalite movement”. His younger brother, Swapan Seth, wrote in a blog that Suhel was packed off to Nainital overnight for schooling at the age of eight because the workers in their father’s factory posed a threat to his life.
Seth returned to Kolkata, and by all accounts, passed out of La Martiniere School to study English literature at the Jadavpur University. He was active in debating and theatre circles in the mid-’80s, said an acquaintance who has known Seth since his school days and went to university with him. “His claim to fame was staging IS Johar’s controversial play Bhutto [on the execution of the Pakistani leader Zulfikar Ali Bhutto],” the acquaintance told Scroll.in. “He later went on to marry the daughter of a corporate honcho and that is believed to be his ultimate entry into the social circles of the rich.” Seth said in an interview he was married from 1989 to 1993.
Professionally, Seth worked in the advertising industry. His first job was at the agency Response. “Until the late 1990s, Seth was a Calcutta advertising executive of middling importance who had managed to impress a few locally powerful clients, foremost among them Russi Mody of Tata Steel,” wrote Sharma in the book review published in Caravan magazine. After a stint with Ogilvy & Mather, Seth set up an agency of his own, called Equus, in partnership with his brother in 1995. Rising on the back on connections he established in the Bharatiya Janata Party, Seth was hired to design material for Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s prime ministerial campaign in the 1999 general elections. In 2002, he set up Counselage India.
With Amitabh Bachchan. Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. September 25, 2016
Barely three years after he left Kolkata, Seth briefly became the biggest shareholder in India’s largest television news channel in 2003, after he bought 30% stake in the company that ran Star News in India. That year, the Indian government had imposed a new rule prohibiting foreign investors from owning more than 26% stake in news broadcast channels originating in India. Star News, which was owned by media tycoon Rupert Murdoch at the time, set up a new company in which Murdoch’s Star India owned 26% stake and the remaining was owned by different companies and individuals, including 25% owned by Kumar Mangalam Birla and 5% by Suhel Seth. When rival news channels accused Star of setting up a front company, Birla backed out and Seth bought out his entire 25% stake. A few weeks later, Kolkata-based ABP, owned by Seth’s friend Aveek Sarkar, bought all of the 74% Indian shares in the company.
As early as 2008, when Narendra Modi was still widely shunned as the riot-tainted chief minister of Gujarat, Seth described him as “a transformational leader”. Two years later, Tata Group chairman Ratan Tata moved the manufacturing of the Nano car to Gujarat.
"The Award Night at The Carlyle". Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. October 18, 2015
Over the years, Seth has become a ubiquitous face in elite social circles, on national television, at literary festivals. “This is the time in our history that belongs to men like Suhel Seth; a time when, just as intemperance is intellect and fervidity is profundity, such ubiquity is unquestionably success,” wrote Sharma.
The latest sign of success: in March this year, the Adani Group hired Seth as its brand consultant.
The recent allegations
One of the first women to publicly accuse Seth of sexual harassment was freelance journalist Mandakini Gahlot who said in a tweet thread on October 10 that Seth forcibly kissed her at a post-conference party in Goa in July 2011. “I felt his tongue inside my mouth,” she wrote. “I do not remember what he said, but I will never forget that he laughed, and even worse the people in that group laughed. In the end, I did not file a complaint...I was too young, trying desperately to rise in my career and Suhel [Seth] was just too powerful to take on.”
Gahlot, 33, said she was inspired to go public by the anonymous accounts on social media describing alleged sexual harassment by Seth. “People were debating whether to believe the anonymous accounts,” Gahlot told Scroll.in. “I had no trouble believing them because of my own experience. That’s when I decided to speak up and name him.”
World Summit at The Lincoln Center in Manhattan with Tina Brown, Barkha Dutt and Padma Lakshmi. Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. April 7, 2016.
On the same day as Gahlot, film director and entrepreneur Natashja Rathore, 27, tweeted about meeting Seth on the request of her boss. Offering to take her to Janpath for icecream, Seth took her to his apartment in Gurugram, where he kissed and groped her. “You shoved your tongue down my throat,” she wrote in her tweet. “I whacked your head and said ‘behave yourself’”. The incident happened a little over a year ago, Rathore told Scroll.in.
On October 11, journalist Ishita Yadav, 33, posted a Twitter thread claiming that Seth sent her indecent messages on Facebook after “friending” her on the social media site in 2009. At one point, she claimed Seth invited her to his residence over drinks. She said she was unaware of his “predatory behaviour” until he started messaging her about getting her picked up by his driver, and asking her to take a bath and brush her teeth before coming over to his place. After speaking to a friend, Yadav said she declined Seth’s invitation and blocked him on Facebook.
Yadav told Scroll.in that she has now met several women who have been sexually harassed by Seth. “Everyone ignores it because it’s just seen as normal [behaviour],” she said. “I called him out to expose his predatory behaviour thinking that it would prevent him from behaving in the same manner with more young women in the future.”
With Arnab Goswami. Image courtesy: Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. April 15, 2017.
By mid-October, prominent names in the literary, fashion and entertainment industries started sharing their experiences with Seth. On October 13, author Ira Trivedi alleged in a first-person account in Outlook that Seth often made “loud, inappropriate and lewd comments” at women during parties and would become physically over-familiar with them. Trivedi told Scroll.in that she took it as her “moral responsibility” to write about her experience after she came across three other accounts of sexual harassment by Seth on social media.
Model and actor Diandra Soares also alleged in a Facebook post that Seth once forcibly kissed her at a fashion week party in September 2012 at Amby Valley in Maharashtra. While Soares was dancing on a couch at the party, she claims Seth put his hands in her blouse. She responded by pinching his ear and twisting it. Then, she claims, Seth proceeded to “shove his tongue down my mouth”. “I immediately bit his tongue...really really hard with all my might and anger,” Soares wrote in her Facebook post. “I also grabbed his balls and squeezed it hard and refused to let go.” In response, Soares says Seth looked “bewildered” and hurt and told her in a “baby voice” that she had bit him “really hard”.
Soares told Scroll.in that most people at the party, instead of confronting Seth, took her aside and asked her to calm down. “Everybody in the Bombay, Delhi, Calcutta party circles – the elites, the fraternity – they know this,” wrote Soares. “I would like to call out all those people who enable this behaviour through their silence and give predators like this more and more courage to do this. You are hypocrites.”
With Shahrukh Khan. Image courtesy: Image courtesy: Facebook/Suhel Seth. November 15, 2015.
Encouraged by Soares’s decision to share her story, homemaker Jasmine Divekar also took to Twitter to share her experience with Seth at a friend’s house party in Mumbai in January 2017. Divekar, 44, alleged Seth groped her breast when she greeted him. She claims she screamed and pulled out her phone, asking him to do it again “so I could record it”. This led him to start abusing her to which she retaliated .“Other people didn’t say or do anything. Most people are spineless that way,” said Divekar, who left the party with her husband soon after the incident. “I chose to speak out just to support other women... And I am looking for him to be shamed and to not repeat it with some other women.”
UK resident Jasmine Sheikh has also accused Seth of harassment when she met him at a hotel in London in 2012. She was 32 at the time. According to Sheikh, Seth invited her to attend some events with him, and since he was surrounded by many women, she did not find anything suspicious. However, things took an uncomfortable turn at a party when Seth allegedly began touching, kissing and forcefully cuddling her. Sheikh said she put up with his behaviour because they were in a social setting. “He knows everybody, and it’s difficult [to object to him] because nobody seems to object to him doing that,” Sheikh told Scroll.in.
After the party, Sheikh had to go to Seth’s room to collect her coat and bag. In the taxi, she alleged he began touching her breasts even though she was leaning away from him, “dazed by shock and anger”. Sheikh finally managed to say push him away and leave when he began kissing her on the sofa in his room. She said she decided to share her experience after she came across Ishita Yadav’s allegations against Suhel Seth on Twitter.
Scroll.in asked Seth for a response to these allegations. No response has been received. |
Q:
C# 4.0 Specification Beta?
Can anybody clarify if Microsoft has released a [draft] specification of C# 4.0 yet? If so, where can I find/download it?
A:
The C# 4.0 Draft Specification is located here.
A:
Try here C# 4.0 Documentation it may be too high level for you.
A:
No spec yet, but the CTP is available for playing with - but note that this doesn't yet include all the features discussed in the the (preliminary) documentation - in particular, many of the dynamic features (in particular operator support) are missing (meaning: the C# language / compiler features that work with dynamic; for all I know the runtime supports them but the language doesn't yet).
It will also be interesting to see how many of the new Expression methods are supported by the language when compiling a lambda.
|
Q:
How to place a title in the tcolorbox to the bottom (left right) of the box
The question is how to place a title in the tcolorbox to the bottom left/right of the box. I want to create something like the following picture. The main point here is the caption "My picture box" being in the bottom of the box.
A:
Using the attach boxed title to bottom center key (along with minipage boxed title* to compensate the different width) you can easily achieve what you want:
The code:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[many]{tcolorbox}
\usepackage{lipsum}
\newtcolorbox{mybox}[2][]{
enhanced,
arc=0pt,
outer arc=0pt,
minipage boxed title*=-1.95em,
title=#2,
fonttitle=\sffamily,
watermark opacity=0.25,
watermark stretch=1.00,
watermark graphics=lichtspiel.jpg,
attach boxed title to bottom center={yshift=2pt},
boxed title style={
enhanced,
watermark opacity=0.75,
watermark stretch=1.00,
watermark graphics=lichtspiel.jpg,
arc=0pt,
outer arc=0pt,
},
#1
}
\begin{document}
\begin{mybox}{This is the title}
\lipsum[4]
\end{mybox}
\end{document}
A:
tcolorbox offers many positions for placing title, see manual page 112,section 8.2.
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[many]{tcolorbox}
\begin{document}
\begin{tcolorbox}[enhanced,minipage boxed title,enhanced,title=My title comes here at the bottom,
attach boxed title to bottom left=
{xshift=0mm,yshift=1mm},
boxed title style={size=small,colback=blue},width=5in]
This is a \textbf{tcolorbox}.
\end{tcolorbox}
\end{document}
However, these predefined styles do not meet your specifications in the provided picture in the question. For this you may use the flexibility of tcolorbox and use a node.
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{lipsum}
\usepackage[many]{tcolorbox}
\makeatletter
\newtcolorbox{mybox}[2][]{enhanced jigsaw,
boxsep=0pt,bottom=3mm,left=3mm,right=3mm,top=3mm,boxrule=1pt,colframe=red,arc=0pt,
overlay={%
\node[anchor=north,text width=\tcb@width-4\pgflinewidth-6mm,fill=olive,inner xsep=3mm]
(a) at ([yshift=2mm]frame.south) {#2};
\draw[red,line width=1pt] (a.north west) -- (a.south west) -| (a.north east);
},
#1}
\makeatother
\begin{document}
\begin{mybox}{My title My title My title My title My title My title My title My title My title}
\lipsum[2]
\end{mybox}
\end{document}
|
The prognostic value of proliferation indices: a study with in vivo bromodeoxyuridine and Ki-67.
Proliferation indices are intended to help patients and clinicians make treatment decisions. We have previously demonstrated that a proliferation index based on in vivo labeling of S-phase cells with bromodeoxyuridine (BrdUrd) correlates with Ki-67 labeling index (LI). We now compare the prognostic value of these indices. With written consent, we gave 129 women with biopsy confirmed breast cancer 200 mg/M2 BrdUrd during 30 min immediately preceding surgery. We used IU-4 anti BrdUrd antibody to count the immunohistochemical labeling index (LI) of DNA-incorporated BrdUrd in 2,000 cells and MIB-1 to count Ki-67 (118 cases). Patients received standard surgical and adjuvant treatment. No patients were lost to follow-up and patients were followed a minimum of 2 (median 5.1) years. We compared survival and recurrence in tumors with high vs low labeling indices. We found that women in the low BrdUrd LI group had better disease free survival (92% vs 67% 5-yr DFS p = 0.001) and overall survival (94% vs 70% 5-yr OS, p = 0.0001) than those with a high LI. In comparison, a low Ki-67 index predicted better OS (87% vs 80% 5-yr OS, p = 0.020) and a trend for better DFS (84% vs 72% DFS p = 0.055). The apparent superiority of BrdUrd LI over Ki-67 LI is likely due to chance (p = 0.18). In multivariate survival analyses we found that BrdUrd LI proliferative index significantly improves prediction of DFS or OS even when node status, age or tumor size is in the model. We conclude that markers of proliferation are useful adjuncts in predicting patient prognosis. |
#
# Copyright 2019 The Oppia Authors. All Rights Reserved.
#
# Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0 (the "License");
# you may not use this file except in compliance with the License.
# You may obtain a copy of the License at
#
# http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
#
# Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in writing, software
# distributed under the License is distributed on an "AS-IS" BASIS,
# WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or implied.
# See the License for the specific language governing permissions and
# limitations under the License.
"""Unit tests for scripts/common.py."""
from __future__ import absolute_import # pylint: disable=import-only-modules
from __future__ import unicode_literals # pylint: disable=import-only-modules
import contextlib
import getpass
import http.server
import os
import re
import shutil
import socketserver
import stat
import subprocess
import sys
import tempfile
from core.tests import test_utils
import psutil
import python_utils
import release_constants
from . import common
_PARENT_DIR = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(os.getcwd(), os.pardir))
_PY_GITHUB_PATH = os.path.join(
_PARENT_DIR, 'oppia_tools', 'PyGithub-%s' % common.PYGITHUB_VERSION)
sys.path.insert(0, _PY_GITHUB_PATH)
import github # isort:skip pylint: disable=wrong-import-position
class MockPsutilProcess(python_utils.OBJECT):
"""A mock class for Process class in Psutil."""
cmdlines = [
['dev_appserver.py', '--host', '0.0.0.0', '--port', '9001'],
['downloads']
]
def __init__(self, index):
"""Constructor for this mock object.
Args:
index: int. The index of process to be checked.
"""
self.index = index
def cmdline(self):
"""Return the command line of this process."""
pass
def kill(self):
"""Kill the process."""
pass
def is_running(self):
"""Check whether the function is running."""
return True
class CommonTests(test_utils.GenericTestBase):
"""Test the methods which handle common functionalities."""
def test_is_x64_architecture_in_x86(self):
maxsize_swap = self.swap(sys, 'maxsize', 1)
with maxsize_swap:
self.assertFalse(common.is_x64_architecture())
def test_is_x64_architecture_in_x64(self):
maxsize_swap = self.swap(sys, 'maxsize', 2**32 + 1)
with maxsize_swap:
self.assertTrue(common.is_x64_architecture())
def test_run_cmd(self):
self.assertEqual(
common.run_cmd(('echo Test for common.py ').split(' ')),
'Test for common.py')
def test_ensure_directory_exists_with_existing_dir(self):
check_function_calls = {
'makedirs_gets_called': False
}
def mock_makedirs(unused_dirpath):
check_function_calls['makedirs_gets_called'] = True
with self.swap(os, 'makedirs', mock_makedirs):
common.ensure_directory_exists('assets')
self.assertEqual(check_function_calls, {'makedirs_gets_called': False})
def test_ensure_directory_exists_with_non_existing_dir(self):
check_function_calls = {
'makedirs_gets_called': False
}
def mock_makedirs(unused_dirpath):
check_function_calls['makedirs_gets_called'] = True
with self.swap(os, 'makedirs', mock_makedirs):
common.ensure_directory_exists('test-dir')
self.assertEqual(check_function_calls, {'makedirs_gets_called': True})
def test_require_cwd_to_be_oppia_with_correct_cwd_and_unallowed_deploy_dir(
self):
common.require_cwd_to_be_oppia()
def test_require_cwd_to_be_oppia_with_correct_cwd_and_allowed_deploy_dir(
self):
common.require_cwd_to_be_oppia(allow_deploy_dir=True)
def test_require_cwd_to_be_oppia_with_wrong_cwd_and_unallowed_deploy_dir(
self):
def mock_getcwd():
return 'invalid'
getcwd_swap = self.swap(os, 'getcwd', mock_getcwd)
with getcwd_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, 'Please run this script from the oppia/ directory.'):
common.require_cwd_to_be_oppia()
def test_require_cwd_to_be_oppia_with_wrong_cwd_and_allowed_deploy_dir(
self):
def mock_getcwd():
return 'invalid'
def mock_basename(unused_dirpath):
return 'deploy-dir'
def mock_isdir(unused_dirpath):
return True
getcwd_swap = self.swap(os, 'getcwd', mock_getcwd)
basename_swap = self.swap(os.path, 'basename', mock_basename)
isdir_swap = self.swap(os.path, 'isdir', mock_isdir)
with getcwd_swap, basename_swap, isdir_swap:
common.require_cwd_to_be_oppia(allow_deploy_dir=True)
def test_open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible_with_user_manually_opening_url(
self):
try:
check_function_calls = {
'input_gets_called': 0,
'check_call_gets_called': False
}
expected_check_function_calls = {
'input_gets_called': 1,
'check_call_gets_called': False
}
def mock_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 0
def mock_check_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
check_function_calls['check_call_gets_called'] = True
def mock_input():
check_function_calls['input_gets_called'] += 1
return 'n'
call_swap = self.swap(subprocess, 'call', mock_call)
check_call_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_call', mock_check_call)
input_swap = self.swap(python_utils, 'INPUT', mock_input)
with call_swap, check_call_swap, input_swap:
common.open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible('test-url')
self.assertEqual(
check_function_calls, expected_check_function_calls)
finally:
common.USER_PREFERENCES['open_new_tab_in_browser'] = None
def test_open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible_with_url_opening_correctly(
self):
try:
check_function_calls = {
'input_gets_called': 0,
'check_call_gets_called': False
}
expected_check_function_calls = {
'input_gets_called': 1,
'check_call_gets_called': True
}
def mock_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 0
def mock_check_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
check_function_calls['check_call_gets_called'] = True
def mock_input():
check_function_calls['input_gets_called'] += 1
return 'y'
call_swap = self.swap(subprocess, 'call', mock_call)
check_call_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_call', mock_check_call)
input_swap = self.swap(python_utils, 'INPUT', mock_input)
with call_swap, check_call_swap, input_swap:
common.open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible('test-url')
self.assertEqual(
check_function_calls, expected_check_function_calls)
finally:
common.USER_PREFERENCES['open_new_tab_in_browser'] = None
def test_open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible_with_url_not_opening_correctly(
self):
try:
check_function_calls = {
'input_gets_called': 0,
'check_call_gets_called': False
}
expected_check_function_calls = {
'input_gets_called': 2,
'check_call_gets_called': False
}
def mock_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 1
def mock_check_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
check_function_calls['check_call_gets_called'] = True
def mock_input():
check_function_calls['input_gets_called'] += 1
return 'y'
call_swap = self.swap(subprocess, 'call', mock_call)
check_call_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_call', mock_check_call)
input_swap = self.swap(python_utils, 'INPUT', mock_input)
with call_swap, check_call_swap, input_swap:
common.open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible('test-url')
self.assertEqual(
check_function_calls, expected_check_function_calls)
finally:
common.USER_PREFERENCES['open_new_tab_in_browser'] = None
def test_get_remote_alias_with_correct_alias(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'remote1 url1\nremote2 url2'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.get_remote_alias('url1'), 'remote1')
def test_get_remote_alias_with_incorrect_alias(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'remote1 url1\nremote2 url2'
check_output_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output)
with check_output_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception,
'ERROR: There is no existing remote alias for the url3 repo.'):
common.get_remote_alias('url3')
def test_verify_local_repo_is_clean_with_clean_repo(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'nothing to commit, working directory clean'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
common.verify_local_repo_is_clean()
def test_verify_local_repo_is_clean_with_unclean_repo(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'invalid'
check_output_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output)
with check_output_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, 'ERROR: This script should be run from a clean branch.'):
common.verify_local_repo_is_clean()
def test_get_current_branch_name(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch test'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.get_current_branch_name(), 'test')
def test_get_current_release_version_number_with_non_hotfix_branch(self):
self.assertEqual(
common.get_current_release_version_number('release-1.2.3'), '1.2.3')
def test_get_current_release_version_number_with_hotfix_branch(self):
self.assertEqual(
common.get_current_release_version_number('release-1.2.3-hotfix-1'),
'1.2.3')
def test_get_current_release_version_number_with_maintenance_branch(self):
self.assertEqual(
common.get_current_release_version_number(
'release-maintenance-1.2.3'), '1.2.3')
def test_get_current_release_version_number_with_invalid_branch(self):
with self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, 'Invalid branch name: invalid-branch.'):
common.get_current_release_version_number('invalid-branch')
def test_is_current_branch_a_hotfix_branch_with_non_hotfix_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch release-1.2.3'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_hotfix_branch(), False)
def test_is_current_branch_a_hotfix_branch_with_hotfix_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch release-1.2.3-hotfix-1'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_hotfix_branch(), True)
def test_is_current_branch_a_release_branch_with_release_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch release-1.2.3'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_release_branch(), True)
def test_is_current_branch_a_release_branch_with_hotfix_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch release-1.2.3-hotfix-1'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_release_branch(), True)
def test_is_current_branch_a_release_branch_with_maintenance_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch release-maintenance-1.2.3'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_release_branch(), True)
def test_is_current_branch_a_release_branch_with_non_release_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch test'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_release_branch(), False)
def test_is_current_branch_a_test_branch_with_test_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch test-common'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_test_branch(), True)
def test_is_current_branch_a_test_branch_with_non_test_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch invalid-test'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
self.assertEqual(common.is_current_branch_a_test_branch(), False)
def test_verify_current_branch_name_with_correct_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch test'
with self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output):
common.verify_current_branch_name('test')
def test_verify_current_branch_name_with_incorrect_branch(self):
def mock_check_output(unused_cmd_tokens):
return 'On branch invalid'
check_output_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_output', mock_check_output)
with check_output_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception,
'ERROR: This script can only be run from the "test" branch.'):
common.verify_current_branch_name('test')
def test_ensure_release_scripts_folder_exists_with_invalid_access(self):
process = subprocess.Popen(['test'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
def mock_isdir(unused_dirpath):
return False
def mock_chdir(unused_dirpath):
pass
def mock_popen(unused_cmd, stdin, stdout, stderr): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return process
def mock_communicate(unused_self):
return ('Output', 'Invalid')
isdir_swap = self.swap(os.path, 'isdir', mock_isdir)
chdir_swap = self.swap(os, 'chdir', mock_chdir)
popen_swap = self.swap(subprocess, 'Popen', mock_popen)
communicate_swap = self.swap(
subprocess.Popen, 'communicate', mock_communicate)
with isdir_swap, chdir_swap, popen_swap, communicate_swap:
with self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, (
'You need SSH access to GitHub. See the '
'"Check your SSH access" section here and follow the '
'instructions: '
'https://help.github.com/articles/'
'error-repository-not-found/#check-your-ssh-access')):
common.ensure_release_scripts_folder_exists_and_is_up_to_date()
def test_ensure_release_scripts_folder_exists_with_valid_access(self):
process = subprocess.Popen(['test'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
def mock_isdir(unused_dirpath):
return False
def mock_chdir(unused_dirpath):
pass
def mock_popen(unused_cmd, stdin, stdout, stderr): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return process
def mock_communicate(unused_self):
return ('Output', 'You\'ve successfully authenticated!')
def mock_check_call(unused_cmd_tokens):
pass
def mock_verify_local_repo_is_clean():
pass
def mock_verify_current_branch_name(unused_branch_name):
pass
def mock_get_remote_alias(unused_url):
return 'remote'
def mock_ask_user_to_confirm(unused_msg):
pass
isdir_swap = self.swap(os.path, 'isdir', mock_isdir)
chdir_swap = self.swap(os, 'chdir', mock_chdir)
popen_swap = self.swap(subprocess, 'Popen', mock_popen)
communicate_swap = self.swap(
subprocess.Popen, 'communicate', mock_communicate)
check_call_swap = self.swap(
subprocess, 'check_call', mock_check_call)
verify_local_repo_swap = self.swap(
common, 'verify_local_repo_is_clean',
mock_verify_local_repo_is_clean)
verify_current_branch_name_swap = self.swap(
common, 'verify_current_branch_name',
mock_verify_current_branch_name)
get_remote_alias_swap = self.swap(
common, 'get_remote_alias', mock_get_remote_alias)
ask_user_swap = self.swap(
common, 'ask_user_to_confirm', mock_ask_user_to_confirm)
with isdir_swap, chdir_swap, popen_swap, communicate_swap:
with check_call_swap, verify_local_repo_swap, ask_user_swap:
with verify_current_branch_name_swap, get_remote_alias_swap:
(
common
.ensure_release_scripts_folder_exists_and_is_up_to_date(
))
def test_is_port_open(self):
self.assertFalse(common.is_port_open(4444))
handler = http.server.SimpleHTTPRequestHandler
httpd = socketserver.TCPServer(('', 4444), handler)
self.assertTrue(common.is_port_open(4444))
httpd.server_close()
def test_permissions_of_file(self):
root_temp_dir = tempfile.mkdtemp()
temp_dirpath = tempfile.mkdtemp(dir=root_temp_dir)
temp_file = tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile(dir=temp_dirpath)
temp_file.name = 'temp_file'
temp_file_path = os.path.join(temp_dirpath, 'temp_file')
with python_utils.open_file(temp_file_path, 'w') as f:
f.write('content')
common.recursive_chown(root_temp_dir, os.getuid(), -1)
common.recursive_chmod(root_temp_dir, 0o744)
for root, directories, filenames in os.walk(root_temp_dir):
for directory in directories:
self.assertEqual(
oct(stat.S_IMODE(
os.stat(os.path.join(root, directory)).st_mode)),
'0744')
self.assertEqual(
os.stat(os.path.join(root, directory)).st_uid, os.getuid())
for filename in filenames:
self.assertEqual(
oct(stat.S_IMODE(
os.stat(os.path.join(root, filename)).st_mode)), '0744')
self.assertEqual(
os.stat(os.path.join(root, filename)).st_uid, os.getuid())
shutil.rmtree(root_temp_dir)
def test_print_each_string_after_two_new_lines(self):
@contextlib.contextmanager
def _redirect_stdout(new_target):
"""Redirect stdout to the new target.
Args:
new_target: TextIOWrapper. The new target to which stdout is
redirected.
Yields:
TextIOWrapper. The new target.
"""
old_target = sys.stdout
sys.stdout = new_target
try:
yield new_target
finally:
sys.stdout = old_target
target_stdout = python_utils.string_io()
with _redirect_stdout(target_stdout):
common.print_each_string_after_two_new_lines([
'These', 'are', 'sample', 'strings.'])
self.assertEqual(
target_stdout.getvalue(), 'These\n\nare\n\nsample\n\nstrings.\n\n')
def test_install_npm_library(self):
def _mock_subprocess_check_call(unused_command):
"""Mocks subprocess.check_call() to create a temporary file instead
of the actual npm library.
"""
temp_file = tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile()
temp_file.name = 'temp_file'
with python_utils.open_file('temp_file', 'w') as f:
f.write('content')
self.assertTrue(os.path.exists('temp_file'))
temp_file.close()
self.assertFalse(os.path.exists('temp_file'))
with self.swap(subprocess, 'check_call', _mock_subprocess_check_call):
common.install_npm_library('library_name', 'version', 'path')
def test_ask_user_to_confirm(self):
def mock_input():
return 'Y'
with self.swap(python_utils, 'INPUT', mock_input):
common.ask_user_to_confirm('Testing')
def test_get_personal_access_token_with_valid_token(self):
def mock_getpass(prompt): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return 'token'
with self.swap(getpass, 'getpass', mock_getpass):
self.assertEqual(common.get_personal_access_token(), 'token')
def test_get_personal_access_token_with_token_as_none(self):
def mock_getpass(prompt): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return None
getpass_swap = self.swap(getpass, 'getpass', mock_getpass)
with getpass_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception,
'No personal access token provided, please set up a personal '
'access token at https://github.com/settings/tokens and re-run '
'the script'):
common.get_personal_access_token()
def test_closed_blocking_bugs_milestone_results_in_exception(self):
mock_repo = github.Repository.Repository(
requester='', headers='', attributes={}, completed='')
def mock_get_milestone(unused_self, number): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return github.Milestone.Milestone(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={'state': 'closed'}, completed='')
get_milestone_swap = self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_milestone', mock_get_milestone)
with get_milestone_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, 'The blocking bug milestone is closed.'):
common.check_blocking_bug_issue_count(mock_repo)
def test_non_zero_blocking_bug_issue_count_results_in_exception(self):
mock_repo = github.Repository.Repository(
requester='', headers='', attributes={}, completed='')
def mock_open_tab(unused_url):
pass
def mock_get_milestone(unused_self, number): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return github.Milestone.Milestone(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={'open_issues': 10, 'state': 'open'}, completed='')
get_milestone_swap = self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_milestone', mock_get_milestone)
open_tab_swap = self.swap(
common, 'open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible', mock_open_tab)
with get_milestone_swap, open_tab_swap, self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, (
'There are 10 unresolved blocking bugs. Please '
'ensure that they are resolved before release '
'summary generation.')):
common.check_blocking_bug_issue_count(mock_repo)
def test_zero_blocking_bug_issue_count_results_in_no_exception(self):
mock_repo = github.Repository.Repository(
requester='', headers='', attributes={}, completed='')
def mock_get_milestone(unused_self, number): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return github.Milestone.Milestone(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={'open_issues': 0, 'state': 'open'}, completed='')
with self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_milestone', mock_get_milestone):
common.check_blocking_bug_issue_count(mock_repo)
def test_check_prs_for_current_release_are_released_with_no_unreleased_prs(
self):
mock_repo = github.Repository.Repository(
requester='', headers='', attributes={}, completed='')
pull1 = github.PullRequest.PullRequest(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={
'title': 'PR1', 'number': 1, 'labels': [
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_RELEASED_PRS},
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_CURRENT_RELEASE_PRS}]},
completed='')
pull2 = github.PullRequest.PullRequest(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={
'title': 'PR2', 'number': 2, 'labels': [
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_RELEASED_PRS},
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_CURRENT_RELEASE_PRS}]},
completed='')
label = github.Label.Label(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={
'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_CURRENT_RELEASE_PRS},
completed='')
def mock_get_issues(unused_self, state, labels): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return [pull1, pull2]
def mock_get_label(unused_self, unused_name):
return [label]
get_issues_swap = self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_issues', mock_get_issues)
get_label_swap = self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_label', mock_get_label)
with get_issues_swap, get_label_swap:
common.check_prs_for_current_release_are_released(mock_repo)
def test_check_prs_for_current_release_are_released_with_unreleased_prs(
self):
mock_repo = github.Repository.Repository(
requester='', headers='', attributes={}, completed='')
def mock_open_tab(unused_url):
pass
pull1 = github.PullRequest.PullRequest(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={
'title': 'PR1', 'number': 1, 'labels': [
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_CURRENT_RELEASE_PRS}]},
completed='')
pull2 = github.PullRequest.PullRequest(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={
'title': 'PR2', 'number': 2, 'labels': [
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_RELEASED_PRS},
{'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_CURRENT_RELEASE_PRS}]},
completed='')
label = github.Label.Label(
requester='', headers='',
attributes={
'name': release_constants.LABEL_FOR_CURRENT_RELEASE_PRS},
completed='')
def mock_get_issues(unused_self, state, labels): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return [pull1, pull2]
def mock_get_label(unused_self, unused_name):
return [label]
get_issues_swap = self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_issues', mock_get_issues)
get_label_swap = self.swap(
github.Repository.Repository, 'get_label', mock_get_label)
open_tab_swap = self.swap(
common, 'open_new_tab_in_browser_if_possible', mock_open_tab)
with get_issues_swap, get_label_swap, open_tab_swap:
with self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception, (
'There are PRs for current release which do not '
'have a \'%s\' label. Please ensure that '
'they are released before release summary '
'generation.') % (
release_constants.LABEL_FOR_RELEASED_PRS)):
common.check_prs_for_current_release_are_released(mock_repo)
def test_kill_processes_based_on_regex(self):
killed = []
def mock_kill(p):
killed.append(MockPsutilProcess.cmdlines[p.index])
def mock_cmdlines(p):
return MockPsutilProcess.cmdlines[p.index]
def mock_process_iter():
return [MockPsutilProcess(0), MockPsutilProcess(1)]
process_iter_swap = self.swap_with_checks(
psutil, 'process_iter', mock_process_iter)
kill_swap = self.swap(MockPsutilProcess, 'kill', mock_kill)
cmdlines_swap = self.swap(MockPsutilProcess, 'cmdline', mock_cmdlines)
with process_iter_swap, kill_swap, cmdlines_swap:
common.kill_processes_based_on_regex(r'.*dev_appserver\.py')
self.assertEqual(killed, [MockPsutilProcess.cmdlines[0]])
def test_kill_processes_based_on_regex_when_access_denied(self):
killed = []
def mock_kill(p):
killed.append(MockPsutilProcess.cmdlines[p.index])
def mock_cmdlines(p):
if p.index == 0:
raise psutil.AccessDenied()
return MockPsutilProcess.cmdlines[p.index]
def mock_process_iter():
return [MockPsutilProcess(0), MockPsutilProcess(1)]
process_iter_swap = self.swap_with_checks(
psutil, 'process_iter', mock_process_iter)
kill_swap = self.swap(MockPsutilProcess, 'kill', mock_kill)
cmdlines_swap = self.swap(MockPsutilProcess, 'cmdline', mock_cmdlines)
with process_iter_swap, kill_swap, cmdlines_swap:
common.kill_processes_based_on_regex(r'.*dev_appserver\.py')
self.assertEqual(killed, [])
def test_kill_process_when_psutil_not_in_path(self):
path_swap = self.swap(sys, 'path', [])
def mock_process_iter():
return []
process_iter_swap = self.swap(psutil, 'process_iter', mock_process_iter)
with path_swap, process_iter_swap:
common.kill_processes_based_on_regex('')
def test_inplace_replace_file(self):
origin_file = os.path.join(
'core', 'tests', 'data', 'inplace_replace_test.json')
backup_file = os.path.join(
'core', 'tests', 'data', 'inplace_replace_test.json.bak')
expected_lines = [
'{\n',
' "RANDMON1" : "randomValue1",\n',
' "312RANDOM" : "ValueRanDom2",\n',
' "DEV_MODE": true,\n',
' "RAN213DOM" : "raNdoVaLue3"\n',
'}\n'
]
def mock_remove(unused_file):
return
remove_swap = self.swap_with_checks(
os, 'remove', mock_remove, expected_args=[(backup_file,)]
)
with remove_swap:
common.inplace_replace_file(
origin_file, '"DEV_MODE": .*', '"DEV_MODE": true,')
with python_utils.open_file(origin_file, 'r') as f:
self.assertEqual(expected_lines, f.readlines())
# Revert the file.
os.remove(origin_file)
shutil.move(backup_file, origin_file)
def test_inplace_replace_file_with_exception_raised(self):
origin_file = os.path.join(
'core', 'tests', 'data', 'inplace_replace_test.json')
backup_file = os.path.join(
'core', 'tests', 'data', 'inplace_replace_test.json.bak')
with python_utils.open_file(origin_file, 'r') as f:
origin_content = f.readlines()
def mock_compile(unused_arg):
raise ValueError('Exception raised from compile()')
compile_swap = self.swap_with_checks(re, 'compile', mock_compile)
with self.assertRaisesRegexp(
ValueError, r'Exception raised from compile\(\)'), compile_swap:
common.inplace_replace_file(
origin_file, '"DEV_MODE": .*', '"DEV_MODE": true,')
self.assertFalse(os.path.isfile(backup_file))
with python_utils.open_file(origin_file, 'r') as f:
new_content = f.readlines()
self.assertEqual(origin_content, new_content)
def test_convert_to_posixpath_on_windows(self):
def mock_is_windows():
return True
is_windows_swap = self.swap(common, 'is_windows_os', mock_is_windows)
original_filepath = 'c:\\path\\to\\a\\file.js'
with is_windows_swap:
actual_file_path = common.convert_to_posixpath(original_filepath)
self.assertEqual(actual_file_path, 'c:/path/to/a/file.js')
def test_convert_to_posixpath_on_platform_other_than_windows(self):
def mock_is_windows():
return False
is_windows_swap = self.swap(common, 'is_windows_os', mock_is_windows)
original_filepath = 'c:\\path\\to\\a\\file.js'
with is_windows_swap:
actual_file_path = common.convert_to_posixpath(original_filepath)
self.assertEqual(actual_file_path, original_filepath)
def test_create_readme(self):
try:
os.makedirs('readme_test_dir')
common.create_readme('readme_test_dir', 'Testing readme.')
with python_utils.open_file('readme_test_dir/README.md', 'r') as f:
self.assertEqual(f.read(), 'Testing readme.')
finally:
if os.path.exists('readme_test_dir'):
shutil.rmtree('readme_test_dir')
def test_windows_os_throws_exception_when_starting_redis_server(self):
def mock_is_windows_os():
return True
windows_not_supported_exception = self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception,
'The redis command line interface is not installed because your '
'machine is on the Windows operating system. The redis server '
'cannot start.')
swap_os_check = self.swap(common, 'is_windows_os', mock_is_windows_os)
with swap_os_check, windows_not_supported_exception:
common.start_redis_server()
def test_windows_os_throws_exception_when_stopping_redis_server(self):
def mock_is_windows_os():
return True
windows_not_supported_exception = self.assertRaisesRegexp(
Exception,
'The redis command line interface is not installed because your '
'machine is on the Windows operating system. There is no redis '
'server to shutdown.')
swap_os_check = self.swap(common, 'is_windows_os', mock_is_windows_os)
with swap_os_check, windows_not_supported_exception:
common.stop_redis_server()
def test_start_and_stop_server_calls_are_called(self):
# Test that starting the server calls subprocess.call().
check_function_calls = {
'subprocess_call_is_called': False
}
expected_check_function_calls = {
'subprocess_call_is_called': True
}
def mock_call(unused_cmd_tokens, *args, **kwargs): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
check_function_calls['subprocess_call_is_called'] = True
class Ret(python_utils.OBJECT):
"""Return object with required attributes."""
def __init__(self):
self.returncode = 0
def communicate(self):
"""Return required method."""
return '', ''
return Ret()
def mock_wait_for_port_to_be_open(port): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return
swap_call = self.swap(subprocess, 'call', mock_call)
swap_wait_for_port_to_be_open = self.swap(
common, 'wait_for_port_to_be_open',
mock_wait_for_port_to_be_open)
with swap_call, swap_wait_for_port_to_be_open:
common.start_redis_server()
self.assertEqual(check_function_calls, expected_check_function_calls)
# Test that stopping the server calls subprocess.call().
check_function_calls = {
'subprocess_call_is_called': False
}
expected_check_function_calls = {
'subprocess_call_is_called': True
}
swap_call = self.swap(subprocess, 'call', mock_call)
with swap_call:
common.stop_redis_server()
self.assertEqual(check_function_calls, expected_check_function_calls)
def test_start_server_removes_redis_dump(self):
check_function_calls = {
'os_remove_is_called': False
}
def mock_os_remove_file(file_path): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
check_function_calls['os_remove_is_called'] = True
def mock_os_path_exists(file_path): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return True
def mock_call(unused_cmd_tokens, *args, **kwargs): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
class Ret(python_utils.OBJECT):
"""Return object with required attributes."""
def __init__(self):
self.returncode = 0
def communicate(self):
"""Return required method."""
return '', ''
return Ret()
def mock_wait_for_port_to_be_open(port): # pylint: disable=unused-argument
return
swap_call = self.swap(subprocess, 'call', mock_call)
swap_wait_for_port_to_be_open = self.swap(
common, 'wait_for_port_to_be_open',
mock_wait_for_port_to_be_open)
swap_os_remove = self.swap(os, 'remove', mock_os_remove_file)
swap_os_path_exists = self.swap(os.path, 'exists', mock_os_path_exists)
with swap_call, swap_wait_for_port_to_be_open, swap_os_remove, (
swap_os_path_exists):
common.start_redis_server()
self.assertTrue(check_function_calls['os_remove_is_called'])
def test_fix_third_party_imports_correctly_sets_up_imports(self):
common.fix_third_party_imports()
# Asserts that imports from problematic modules do not error.
from google.cloud import tasks_v2 # pylint: disable=unused-variable
from google.appengine.api import app_identity # pylint: disable=unused-variable
|
Q:
How come this test fails?
I'm new to unit testing with jest & enzyme.
I want to test if the component has a class name 'comment-box' or not.
In the component I conduct a unit test, I do have a div with class name 'comment-box'.
But, when I run a test, it fails.
Probably, Im making an easy mistake since Im new to jest & enzyme.
Could anyone please help me to find out the problem?
Thanks!
Log in my test runner.
FAIL src/__tests__/components/CommentBox.test.js
● CommentBox › has the right class
expect(received).toBe(expected)
Expected value to be (using ===):
true
Received:
false
CommentBox.js
import React, { Component } from 'react';
class CommentBox extends Component {
constructor(props) {
super(props);
}
render() {
return (
<div class="comment-box">
<textarea></textarea>
<button>Submit</button>
</div>
)
}
}
export default CommentBox;
CommentBox.test.js
import React, { Component } from 'react';
import { shallow, mount, render } from 'enzyme';
import CommentBox from '../../components/CommentBox';
jest.unmock('../../components/CommentBox');
describe('CommentBox', () => {
it('has the correct class', () => {
const component = shallow(<CommentBox />);
expect(component.find('div').hasClass('comment-box')).toBe(true);
// I tried this one as well.
// expect(component.find('div').first().hasClass('comment-box')).toBe(true);
});
});
A:
It should be
<div className="comment-box">
|
Askar Myrzakhmetov
Askar Myrzakhmetov (, Asqar Isabekuly Myrzahmetov) is a Kazakh politician who held the positions of Counsellor of the Prime Minister of Kazakhstan and First Vice Minister of Agriculture between 1997 and 2006. He was ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2006 and 2007.
References
Category:Living people
Category:Kazakhstani politicians
Category:Kazakhstani businesspeople
Category:Ministers of Agriculture (Kazakhstan)
Category:Ambassadors of Kazakhstan to Uzbekistan
Category:Year of birth missing (living people) |
Q:
Browser loading html in js file (node.js)
Apologies for the confusing title, the confusing title is a byproduct of my own confusion.
I am working with Node.js to write a web server and an api. Everything was going well, until I ran into this problem. Here is my server/api code:
const express = require('express');
const app = express();
const port = 9001;
const bodyParser = require('body-parser');
const mysql = require('mysql');
app.get('/profile/:url', (request, response) =>{
app.use('/profile/:url', express.static(__dirname+'/static_pages'));
response.sendFile('static_pages/test.html', {root: __dirname});
});
Here is test.html:
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang= "en">
<head>
<script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.10.2.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="./test.js"></script>
</head>
<body>
<div class="test">test</div>
</body>
</html>
here is test.js:
console.log('i run correctly!');
Now test.html does everything as expected if I open the file with a browser. However, if I run the server and navigate to 127.0.0.1:9001/profile/XXXXX , I get the following error:
Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token <
Confused, I checked under "Sources" in Chrome devtools, and despite Chrome saying that it's loading "test.js" the code that it's running as "test.js" is identical to that of "test.html". Does anyone know why this is happening?
I used an identical method in order to deliver html/css/js in my other rest calls in the same file, and all of those pages are working as intended.
A:
app.get('/profile/:url', (request, response) =>{
app.use('/profile/:url', express.static(__dirname+'/static_pages'));
response.sendFile('static_pages/test.html', {root: __dirname});
});
That doesn't make sense.
Every time you get a request for /profile/:url you try to set up the static plugin, then you return the contents of test.html.
When the browser asks for /profile/test.js that code … returns the contents of test.html.
Presumably you are planning to put some dynamic code in there to generate the profile page dynamically. That means you should not put the JS under `/profile/ because it isn't a profile page.
So:
Configure the static plugin properly:
app.get('/profile/:url', (request, response) =>{
response.sendFile('static_pages/test.html', {root: __dirname});
});
app.use(express.static(__dirname+'/static_pages'));
Point the URL at the right place:
<script src="/test.js"></script>
Note the . is removed so you are accessing from the root instead of from the current path segment.
|
Introduction
============
Albumin comprises half of the plasma proteins in healthy individuals at concentrations of circa 40 g/L (0.6 mmol/L) and is produced by hepatocytes and exported through the blood to the rest of the cells in the body ([@ref-26]; [@ref-32]). Albumin is capable of traversing intracellularly between different organs due to its interactions with several cellular receptors. Hence, many pharmaceutical manufacturers bind drugs to albumin in order to improve their circulatory half-life ([@ref-10]; [@ref-39]) and delivery into target cells ([@ref-13]; [@ref-22])
Albumin's ability to transport between different cell occurs through endocytosis and transcytosis and is controlled by several cellular receptors. These interactions dictate whether albumin should be internalised or cross the vascular endothelial barrier to extravascular compartments ([@ref-38]; [@ref-40]). These cellular receptors are selective when binding albumin based on its ligand profile. This can be exemplified in glycoprotein receptors gp60, gp18 and gp30. Native albumin binds to gp60 and is transported by transcytosis through the endothelial cells whereas modified albumin (by surface adsorption to colloidal Au or maleic anhydride treatment) binds gp18 and gp30 and is internalised by endocytosis to be delivered to lysosomes for degradation ([@ref-38]; [@ref-37]). Another study demonstrates neonatal Fc receptor (FcRn) in transporting albumin across endothelial cells. Recombinant albumin was engineered to have high or low affinity to bind FcRn. Albumin with high affinity was recycled whereas low affinity albumin underwent lysosomal degradation ([@ref-36]). These cellular interactions with albumin demonstrate that cells selectively dictate the fate of albumin based on the albumin's ligand conformation. This raises the question of whether the cells in turn respond physiologically to albumin.
Several studies have indeed demonstrated that different cell types not only respond to albumin, but they respond differently. One of the prominent effects of albumin on cells can be demonstrated by albumins role in apoptosis. Albumin has shown to protect against apoptosis during serum starvation in several cell types including endothelial cells ([@ref-44]), Pheochromocytoma cells ([@ref-42]) and Neuroblastoma cells ([@ref-14]). Albumin also protects against ROS activated apoptosis in chronic lymphocytic leukaemia cells ([@ref-28]) and hybridoma T cells ([@ref-24]). Albumin can also have a detrimental role, such as that in proximal tubular cells, by causing endoplasmic reticulum stress that consequently leads to apoptosis ([@ref-31]). For its beneficiary role, albumin is used as a supplement in serum free media ([@ref-17]; [@ref-12]) implying its importance in cell maintenance. These effects of albumin however need further interpretation.
It has become evident that the diversity of cellular responses to albumin is not only dependent on the cell type but also on the properties of the interacting albumin. This diversity was demonstrated in rat kidney, human squamous carcinoma and various human neuronal cells having responses to fraction V albumin (HPLC fraction of albumin that contains impurities, mainly fatty acids) that are different from their responses to fatty acid free albumin ([@ref-18]; [@ref-16]). Effects of albumin on hepatocellular carcinoma cell line have been previously studied demonstrating conflicting outcomes. While one study suggested that albumin stimulates proliferation of hepatocellular carcinoma cells that were inhibited by fatty acids ([@ref-25]), other studies suggested hepatocellular carcinoma cells cease proliferation in response to albumin ([@ref-30]; [@ref-3]). From the collectively reviewed experiments, it can be extrapolated that the diverse cellular responses to albumin are attributed to the varying albumin receptors in the cell as well as the varying ligand profiles of albumin.
Although, studies demonstrated diverse responses of cellular interactions with albumin, more research is still needed to understand the specifics of these cellular responses. Here we study the effect of albumin on HepG2/C3A hepatocellular carcinoma cell line, a contact inhibited subclone of the HepG2 cell line ([@ref-1]) that retains some physiological functions of normal hepatocytes ([@ref-19]; [@ref-29]). The HepG2/C3A cells are used as a model cell line for studying parenchymal biosynthesis ([@ref-20]; [@ref-41]; [@ref-29]) and screening for cytotoxicity of drug compounds for side effects involving liver injury ([@ref-15]; [@ref-11]). The cell line has also been considered for testing clinical samples in screening for diseases ([@ref-34]; [@ref-35]). Furthermore, the HepG2/C3A cell line has been used in clinical trials as a therapeutic in an extracorporeal bioartificial liver device ([@ref-29]).
Since hepatocytes play an important role in albumin metabolism and albumin bound drug clearance ([@ref-27]), we decided to evaluate the HepG2/C3A cell line's immediate responses to albumin. This simple approach is required to understand basic responses of HepG2/C3A cells to albumin prior to engaging in complex experiments in order to exploit these features for testing albumin bound drugs or effects of different bound albumin profiles on cells. Therefore, we applied charcoal defatted human serum albumin to cultured HepG2/C3A cells in the absence of serum. The immediate responses of the cells, particularly proliferation and cell death, were examined. Although similar studies have been previously performed on the HepG2 hepatocellular carcinoma parent clone demonstrating that albumin prevents proliferation ([@ref-30]; [@ref-3]), experiments in this study were carried out on the HepG2/C3A subclone and were contradictory to these earlier findings. Since HepG2/C3A cell line is commonly used as a model for drug testing ([@ref-15]; [@ref-11]), it is justifiable to have a basic understanding of the effects of albumin on HepG2/C3A cells when testing albumin bound drugs. This primary approach offers a platform and a control method when studying the effects of drug bound albumin and pathologically modified albumin on cell proliferation as well as cytotoxicity.
Materials & Methods
===================
Cell culture
------------
The cell line used in this study is C3A \[HepG2/C3A, derivative of Hep G2 (ATCC HB-8065)\] (ATCC^®^ CRL-10741™). Cells were routinely cultured in DMEM (Gibco) supplemented with 10% foetal bovine serum (FBS, Sigma) and 2 mM L-glutamine (Biochrom) at a seeding density of 8 × 10^4^ cells/cm^2^ in 25 cm^2^ flasks (Greiner Bio-one) ([Fig. S1](#supp-1){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). Cells were incubated at 37 °C, 98% humidity and 5% CO~2~ (BBD 6220 CO~2~ incubator, Thermo Scientific). Cells were harvested by detachment using trypsin/EDTA, then neutralised with media containing 10% FBS. They were then pelleted by centrifugation at 300 × g, resuspended in media composed of the desired treatments at a total of 2 × 10^6^ cells (8 × 10^4^ cells/cm^2^). Cell counts were carried out under a light microscope using a Neubauer haemocytometer.
The treatments in this study include serum free media (DMEM with 2 mM L-glutamine, completely without FBS) as the serum starved control, serum free media containing 5 mg/ml albumin (human serum albumin, Octapharma) or serum free media containing 5 mg/ml dextran 70 (Carl Roth). The albumin used in this study is in physiological solution and charcoal treated (Hepalbin, Albutec) to reduce albumin bound stabilisers and other fatty acids prior to applying it to the cells ([@ref-5]). A concentration of 5 mg/ml albumin was applied in our experiments because it is comparable to total protein concentrations in 10% FBS used in routine cell culture.
HepG2 cells typically respond slowly to serum starvation and evidence of cell cycle arrest and apoptosis are usually delayed ([Figs. S1](#supp-1){ref-type="supplementary-material"} and [S2](#supp-1){ref-type="supplementary-material"}) ([@ref-43]), therefore tests were conducted after 72 h in culture. Cells were routinely viewed using inverted phase contrast microscope (DM IL LED, Leica) and images were captured using a mounted camera (MC120 HD, Leica).
HepG2/C3A cells were authenticated using short tandem repeat analysis and hepatocyte functionality was confirmed by measuring micro albumin synthesis and cytochrome P450 monooxygenase 1A activity. Cells were periodically screened for mycoplasma by extranuclear 4′,6-Diamidine-2′-phenylindole dihydrochloride (DAPI, Carl Roth) staining viewed under ECLIPSE Ti inverted fluorescence microscope (Nikon). Confirmatory testing of mycoplasma enzymatic activity (Mycoalert, Lonza) was carried out according to kit instructions and measured using CLARIOstar plate reader (BMG LABTECH). Both tests have been negative confirming absence of mycoplasma contamination.
Cell cycle analysis
-------------------
Harvested cells were fixed in 66% Ethanol at a concentration of 10^6^ cells/ml for a minimum of 2 h at 4 °C. Cells were washed with phosphate buffer saline and incubated with 200 µl staining solution consisting of 50 µg/ml propidium iodide and 550 U/ml RNase A (Abcam) in the dark at 37 °C for 20 to 30 min. Measurements were taken at excitation wavelength of 488 nm using the FACSVerse flow cytometer (BD Biosciences). Gating was carried out using FlowJo 10.5.3 software (FlowJo) and calculated using the software's Watson Pragmatic algorithm to correct for overlaps between the peaks.
TUNEL assay
-----------
Suspended cells were fixed with 1% paraformaldehyde (pH 7.4) for 60 min on ice. The cells were washed with PBS followed by 70% ethanol fixation at −20 °C overnight. Cells were treated with terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase enzyme (TdT) and fluorescein isothiocyanate (FITC) deoxy uridine triphosphate (FITC-dUTP) provided in the kit (Phoenix flow systems). Measurements were taken at excitation wavelength of 488nm using the FACSVerse flow cytometer (BD Biosciences).
Immunoblotting
--------------
Cells collected after 72 h treatments were lysed in RIPA buffer (Millipore) containing protease inhibitor cocktail (cOmplete, Roche). Protein concentrations were measured colorimetrically using Pierce BCA protein assay kit (Thermo Scientific). Total protein concentrations of 15 µg for cyclin D1 and 40 µg for p21 in loading buffer (Roti-Load 1, Carl Roth) were separated by SDS-PAGE in a 12% separating gel and 5% stacking gel (Rotiphorese NF-Acrylamide/Bis-solution 30% (29:1), Carl Roth). Proteins were transferred to PVDF membrane (Immobilon P, Millipore) followed by blocking (Roti-Block, Carl Roth), incubation in primary antibody and then secondary antibody. Rabbit monoclonal to p21 \[EPR3993\] (1:1000, ab109199, Abcam), Rabbit monoclonal to cyclin D1 \[EPR2241\] (1:3000, ab134175, Abcam) and Rabbit polyclonal to GAPDH (1:1000, ab9485, Abcam) were used as primary antibodies. The secondary antibody used was HRP conjugated Goat F(ab')2 Anti-Rabbit IgG (1:7500, ab6013, Abcam). The membrane was washed between incubations with TBST (20 mM Tris--HCl (pH 7.6), 0.137 M NaCl, 0.05% Tween 20). The blots were then developed using Pierce ECL plus (Thermo Scientific) and imaged using Fusion FX (Vilber). The blots were analyzed densitometrically using ImageJ (<https://imagej.nih.gov>).
Fluorescence imaging
--------------------
Cells were cultured on a 24 well plate (Greiner) at a seeding density of 8 × 10^4^ cells/cm^2^ for 72 h with the different treatments. Unfixed adherent cells were directly stained with a mixture of 0.6 µM calcein AM (Invitrogen), 2 µM ethidium bromide (Invitrogen) and 4 µM 4′, 6-Diamidine-2′-phenylindole dihydrochloride (DAPI, Carl Roth) and incubated at 37 °C for 20 min. The cells were viewed and photographed under ECLIPSE Ti inverted fluorescence microscope (Nikon). Cells positive for membrane permeabilization were measured as the proportion of cells stained with ethidium bromide from total cell numbers stained with DAPI. A minimum of 1,000 cells and three fields of view were counted per well.
Statistics
----------
Four biological replicates were used in each treatment unless stated otherwise. *F* test was used to determine equal variances. Two tailed *T*-test assuming equal or unequal (Welch test) variances was carried out accordingly to determine statistical significance when comparing two groups. One way-ANOVA followed by Bonferroni's post hoc analysis was carried out when comparing multiple groups against the control. *P* value of less than 0.05 is considered significant (*α* = 0.05).
Results
=======
Albumin alters cell morphology and results in increased cell counts of serum starved HEPG2/C3A cells
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To test the immediate effects of albumin, cells were cultured in serum free media containing 5mg/ml albumin and compared with the cells cultured in serum free media without albumin (serum starved control). Cells cultured in serum free media containing 5 mg/ml dextran, with a comparable molecular weight to albumin (70 kDa), was carried out as a control for effects that might relate to oncotic pressure.
Serum starved controls displayed a slight irregular morphology but retained the epithelial polygonal shape and remained as monolayers in colonies. Noticeable morphological differences were observed in albumin treated cells when compared to the serum starved control. Cells remained in colonies but displayed a rounded morphology, formed clusters and grew in more than one layer. Dextran treated cells demonstrated a morphological effect more in resemblance to serum starved cells and did not exhibit the rounded morphology, clusters and layering seen in albumin treated cells ([Fig. 1](#fig-1){ref-type="fig"}).
{#fig-1}
The effects of albumin on total cell counts of serum starved cells was evaluated in comparison to Dextran treated cells and serum starved control. Data passed equal variance test and were analysed by one-way ANOVA followed by Bonferroni's multiple comparison versus control (serum starved cells). Serum starvation for 72 h yielded an average total cell count of 2.8 ×10^6^ cells. Inclusion of albumin in serum starved cells cultured for 72 h significantly increased the average total cell count to 4 ×10^6^ cells (*p* = 0.019, *n* = 4, *α* = 0.05). Dextran treatment of serum starved cells had fewer cells (2 ×10^6^ cells) than the serum starved control but the difference was not significant (*p* = 0.14, *n* = 4, *α* = 0.05) ([Fig. 1](#fig-1){ref-type="fig"}). These findings suggest that albumin alters cell morphology and results in increased total cell counts in serum starved cells. These effects are not simply due to osmotic pressure and are specific for albumin as these results could not be reproduced in cultures treated with an equal molecular weight of Dextran. Serum starved HepG2/C3a cells demonstrated a similar response of increased total cell counts when higher doses of albumin (25 mg/ml and 50 mg/ml) were included in the cultures ([Fig. S3](#supp-3){ref-type="supplementary-material"}).
Albumin promotes proliferation but does not prevent cell death in serum starved HEPG2/C3A cells
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Albumin triggered increased cell counts in serum starved HEPG2/C3A cells requires further explanation into whether these effects are a result of promoting proliferation or preventing cell loss. HEPG2/C3A cells cultured in media containing 10% FBS were maintained for 120 h until confluent ([Fig. S4](#supp-4){ref-type="supplementary-material"}) and possibly contact inhibited ([@ref-19]; [@ref-8]; [@ref-6]). Cell cycle analysis demonstrated that the cells cultured in 10% FBS for 120 h were 86.6% in G1 phase, 6.2% in S phase and 7.2% in G2/M phase ([Fig. S4](#supp-4){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). The confluent cells were harvested then seeded at the regular seeding density (2 ×10^6^ cells) in serum starved media and serum starved media containing 5mg/ml albumin. Cell cycle analysis after 72 h in culture demonstrated a significant reduction in G1 phase in albumin treated cells (78.3 ± 3.2%) compared to serum starved cells (86.4 ± 2.3%) (equal variance *t*.test, *p* = 0.006, *n* = 4, *α* = 0.05). Whereas S phase was significantly higher in albumin treated cells (14.3 ± 3.6%) compared to serum starved cells (6.5 ± 1.5%) (unequal variance (Welch) *t*.test, *p* = 0.016, *n* = 4, *α* = 0.05). There was however no significant difference in G2/M phase between albumin treated cells (7.4 ± 1.9%) and serum starved cells (7 ± 2.2%) (equal variance *t*.test, *p* = 0.8, *n* = 4, *α* = 0.05) ([Fig. 2](#fig-2){ref-type="fig"} and [Fig. S1](#supp-1){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). These results suggest that serum starvation resulted in a cell cycle arrest in G1 phase, while inclusion of albumin promoted cell cycle transition into S phase.
{#fig-2}
Western blot analysis demonstrates that levels of p21 (average relative density) expressed in serum starved cells (1 ± 0.64) is significantly reduced (equal variance *t*.test, *p* = 0.034, *n* = 4, *α* = 0.05) by the inclusion of 5 mg/ml albumin (0.12 ± 0.08). Levels of cyclin D1 between serum starved cells (1 ± 0.72) and albumin treated cells (1.07 ±0.87) were not significantly different (equal variance *t*.test, *p* = 0.0, *n* = 3, *α* = 0.05) ([Fig. 2](#fig-2){ref-type="fig"}). This suggests that albumin promotes cell cycle progression in serum starved cells by suppressing p21.
Serum starvation causes cell apoptosis and necrosis in cultured cells. The effects of serum starvation are however slow in HepG2 cells ([@ref-43]; [@ref-23]). This slow response is recapitulated in HEPG2/C3A cells ([Figs. S2](#supp-2){ref-type="supplementary-material"} and [S5](#supp-5){ref-type="supplementary-material"}); hence, the 72-hour time point was selected for this study. Apoptosis and necrosis were measured in HEPG2/C3A cells by TUNEL assay and ethidium bromide staining respectively. Serum starved cells were 16.6 ± 7.2% apoptotic and albumin treated cells were 11.6 ± 10.2% apoptotic ([Fig. 3](#fig-3){ref-type="fig"}). Although TUNEL positive cells were perceptibly lower in some of the samples when treated with albumin ([Fig. S6](#supp-6){ref-type="supplementary-material"}), the effect was not statistically significant (unequal variance (Welch) *t*.test, *n* = 4, *p* = 0.46, *α* = 0.05) ([Fig. 3](#fig-3){ref-type="fig"}).
{#fig-3}
Cells in culture for 72 h were stained with calcein AM (green) and ethidium bromide (red) to demonstrate presence of live and necrotic cells respectively ([@ref-9]). DAPI (blue) nuclear stain was carried out to quantify total number of cells in the field of view. Live cells were characterised by esterase activity that causes calcein AM to fluoresce in the cytoplasm and is clearly present in all treatments. Necrotic cells were characterised by damaged cell membrane that is permeable to ethidium bromide allowing it to stain the nucleus ([Fig. 4](#fig-4){ref-type="fig"}). Serum starvation resulted in 13.8 ± 4.8% necrosis. Inclusion of 5mg/ml albumin resulted in an increase in necrosis to 16.9 ± 8.9% but is not significantly higher than serum starved cultures (equal variance *t*.test, *n* = 4, *p* = 0.5, *α* = 0.05) ([Fig. 4](#fig-4){ref-type="fig"}). Cells grown in 10% FBS were used as negative controls for TUNEL assay (0.8 ±0.2% apoptotic) and ethidium bromide staining (1.7 ± 0.8% necrotic) ([Fig. S7](#supp-7){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). While inclusion of albumin significantly accounts for an increase in cell counts and proportion of cells in S phase during serum starvation it does not significantly protect against cell death by either apoptosis or necrosis.
{#fig-4}
Discussion and Conclusions
==========================
The frequent interactions of naturally abundant albumin with cells in the body as well as its wide exogenous applications in the biomedical and pharmaceutical industries ([@ref-10]; [@ref-39]) prompted us to study the effects of albumin on cells. We have selected HepG2/C3A carcinoma cells because they originate from hepatocytes ([@ref-1]) and have been used as a model for studying hepatocellular carcinoma ([@ref-4]; [@ref-2]) as well as normal hepatocyte functions ([@ref-29]; [@ref-15]). Hepatocytes play an important role in the clearance of albumin bound substances ([@ref-27]), therefore some of these albumin interacting properties can potentially be used in targeting hepatocellular carcinoma or studying the effects of pathologically modified albumin on cellular function. This study aims to determine immediate effects of albumin on HepG2/C3A cell proliferation and death during serum starvation. Here the effects of albumin free from ligands is carried out to pave the way for understanding how albumin bound ligands may allosterically affect the cell. There have been several studies (see introduction) describing the receptor interactions of a variety of cells with albumin dependent on the albumin's ligand profile and how these cells determine the fate of this albumin molecule dependent on its ligand profile. Most of these studies describe the effects of cells on albumin but studies on the effects of albumin on cells are lacking. Hence, we carried out these experiments.
Although, the effects of albumin on the proliferation of hepatocellular carcinoma cells have been previously studied, the outcomes of those studies are debatable. They argued that albumin inhibits tumour evidenced by its increased levels correlating with cancer remission and addition of albumin to serum starved hepatoma cells caused G1 arrest ([@ref-30]; [@ref-3]). It is worth noting that serum is essential for hepatocellular carcinoma growth ([@ref-43]; [@ref-23]) whereas serum starvation is routinely carried out to arrest cells in G1 phase ([@ref-8]; [@ref-21]).
We carried out our experiments on HEPG2/C3A cells, a selected colony of HepG2 cells, that are responsive to contact inhibition. In our approach, the cells were collected for experimentation after they were grown to confluency to synchronize them by means of contact inhibition ([@ref-19]; [@ref-8]; [@ref-6]). Cells were then grown under serum starved conditions with or without albumin. The initial observed effects of albumin on serum starved HEPG2/C3A cells were morphological. Serum starved cells retain epithelial morphology and the ability to spread. Albumin caused cells to appear more round, small and clustered ([Fig. 1](#fig-1){ref-type="fig"}). The cells were then counted and analysed for cell cycle after 72-hour treatments. The reason for selecting this time point is that during serum starvation, earlier time points did not demonstrate sufficient cell cycle arrest whereas at later time points, the cells were mostly dead. At 72 h after serum starvation we observed minimal cell loss (mean number of cells harvested were not lower than cells seeded) and sufficient G1 cell cycle arrest was observed ([Fig. S2](#supp-2){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). With the inclusion of albumin, we observed an increase in cell counts that correlated with a reduction in percentages of cells in G1 phase and an increase in S phase compared to serum starved controls. Furthermore, we investigated levels of cell cycle promoter protein cyclin D1 and cell cycle inhibitor protein p21 ([@ref-33]) in serum starved cells and albumin containing cultures. Results demonstrate that inclusion of albumin in serum starved cultures significantly reduces P21 but does not significantly alter levels of Cyclin D1 ([Fig. S2](#supp-2){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). This suggests that albumin permits cell cycle transition from G1 to S phase by downregulating p21 which results in increased cell proliferation.
To further rule out proliferation inhibitory effects of albumin that were suggested in the studies mentioned above ([@ref-30]; [@ref-3]), we treated HEPG2/C3A cells grown in media containing FBS with 10mg/ml albumin and did not observe a significant change in cell counts (equal variance *t*.test, *n* = 3, *p* = 0.36) ([Fig. S8](#supp-8){ref-type="supplementary-material"}).
Cell death was measured to rule out a protective effect of albumin. TUNEL assay was carried out to determine cells that underwent DNA fragmentation, an indicator of apoptosis ([@ref-7]). Nuclear staining of cells with ethidium bromide was carried out to demonstrate membrane damage as a result of necrosis or secondary necrosis ([@ref-45]). Inclusion of albumin in serum starved cells did not significantly change the proportion of dead cells identified by these methods. This suggest that albumin does not protect against DNA fragmentation and membrane permeabilization that occurs during serum starvation.
We have argued that albumin has an immediate effect on cell proliferation by promoting cell cycle transition from G1 to S phase in the absence of serum and other proteins including growth promoting factors. However, we did not study whether albumin directly interfered with molecular pathways of transcription factors involved in cell cycle transition or indirectly influenced proliferation through interfering with other processes such as cell spreading. A deeper understanding of the mechanism of albumin's effect on cell proliferation requires more detailed studies. This can include identification of receptors and downstream signalling pathways triggered by albumin-receptor interactions.
We investigated modes of cell death individually, but we did not examine any overlaps between DNA fragmentation and membrane permeabilization. Furthermore, we did not examine whether the underlying cause of death in the membrane permeabilized cells was apoptosis or direct necrosis. The tests simply suggest that albumin did not prevent various fates of cell death that occur during serum starvation.
These findings argue that the addition of albumin resulted in increased cell counts as a result of increased proliferation through promotion of G1 to S phase transition and not by prevention of cell death in serum starved HepG2/C3A cells. This study offers primary results and a platform for further investigations into the molecular interactions of albumin with cells. Additionally, this approach can be used as a control to study different modifications of albumin, ligand profiles and drug bound albumin.
Supplemental Information
========================
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-1
###### Individual cell cycle histograms
Individual histograms of the cell cycle analysis that were presented as overlays in [Fig. 2](#fig-2){ref-type="fig"}. Gating, calculations and images presented in this figure were carried out using FlowJo 10.5.3.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-2
###### Cell cycle analysis of serum starved HepG2/C3A cells
Cell cycle analysis of HEPG2/C3A hepatocytes after 48 h and 72 h serum starvation demonstrate that cell cycle arrest gradually increases over time. Data represented in the graph are mean percentages of G1, S and G2/M cell cycle stages at 48 h and 72 h of serum starvation. Values are mean ± SD (*n* = 2).
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-3
###### Total cell counts of serum starved cultures compared to 25 mg/ml and 50 mg/ml albumin containing cultures
Increased cell counts is demonstrated in 25 mg/ml (*p* \< 0.001) and 50 mg/ml (*p* \< 0.001) albumin containing cultures compared to serum starved control. Values are mean ± SD (*n* = 4).
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-4
###### Morphology and cell counts of HepG2/C3A cells cultured in media containing 10%FBS
HEPG2/C3A cells grown in media supplemented with 10% foetal bovine serum (FBS) characteristically display a regular polygonal morphology and grow in monolayer colonies (A) after 72 h in culture, (B) after 120 h in culture (confluent). (C) Bar chart demonstrating the cell cycle stages calculated using the Watson pragmatic algorithm. Values are mean ± SD (*n* = 2).
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-5
###### TUNEL assay of serum starved HepG2/C3A cells
TUNEL assay of HEPG2/C3A cells demonstrates apoptosis at 4% and 16.6% after (A) 48 and (B) 72 h (image from [Fig. 3](#fig-3){ref-type="fig"} a of main text) of serum starvation respectively.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-6
###### Individual dot plots of TUNEL assay
Individual dot plots of the TUNEL assay that were presented as overlays in [Fig. 3](#fig-3){ref-type="fig"}.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-7
###### Analysis of HepG2/C3A cells cultured in media containing 10% FBS
HepG2/C3A cells cultured in media containing 10% FBS for 72 h were analysed by (A) TUNEL assay using a flow cytometer for apoptosis (0.8 ± 0.2 %) (*n* = 2). (B) fluorescence microscopy demonstrates 1) DAPI (nuclear), 2) calcein AM (cytoplasmic) and 3) ethidium bromide (nuclear) staining. Scale bar = 100 μ*m*. A necrotic index of 1.7 ± 0.8% was calculated as the percentage of necrotic cells (ethidium bromide) from the total cell count (DAPI) (*n* = 2).
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-8
###### Treatment of HepG2/C3A cells cultured in media containing 10% FBS with human serum albumin
Mean cell counts of HepG2/C3A cells cultured for 72 h in media containing 10% FBS (5830000 ± 40000) and media containing 10% FBS treated with 10mg/ml albumin (6470000 ± 1083097). Values are mean ± SD (*n* = 3).
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-9
###### Raw data
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-10
###### Original image of p21 western blot 1 of 2
P21 western blot lanes 1--8 respectively: (1) Ladder, (2) mixed lysate (proliferating cells), (3) 5 mg/ml HSA (a), (4) 50 mg/ml HSA (a), 5) Serum starved (a), (6) 5 mg/ml HSA (b), (7) 50 mg/ml HSA (b), (8) Serum starved (b). This blot contains biological replicates a and b of serum starved, 5 mg/ml albumin and 50 mg/ml albumin treated cultures. 50 mg/ml albumin sample b is also included in p21 western blot 2 as the common sample for normalisation.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-11
###### Original image of GAPDH western blot loading control for p21 western blot 1
GAPDH western blot control for p21 western blot 1 lanes 1--8 respectively: (1) Ladder, (2) mixed lysate (proliferating cells), (3) 5 mg/ml HSA (a), (4) 50 mg/ml HSA (a), (5) Serum starved (a), (6) 5 mg/ml HSA (b), (7) 50 mg/ml HSA (b), (8) Serum starved (b). This blot contains biological replicates a and b of serum starved, 5 mg/ml albumin and 50 mg/ml albumin treated cultures.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-12
###### Original image of p21 western blot 2 of 2
P21 western blot lanes 1--9 respectively: (1) Ladder, (2) mixed lysate, (3) mixed lysate, (4) 50 mg/ml HSA (b), (6) 5 mg/ml HSA (c), (6) Serum starved (c), (7) 50 mg/ml HSA (c), (8) 5 mg/ml HSA (d), (9) Serum starved (d). This blot contains biological replicates c and d of serum starved and 5 mg/ml albumin treated cultures. It also includes 50 mg/ml albumin treated culture samples b and c. 50 mg/ml albumin sample b is also included in p21 western blot 1 as the common sample for normalisation.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-13
###### Original image of GAPDH western blot loading control for p21 western blot 2
GAPDH western blot control for p21 western blot 2 lanes 1--9 respectively: (1) Ladder, (2) mixed lysate, (3) mixed lysate, (4) 50 mg/ml HSA (b), (6) 5 mg/ml HSA (c), (6) Serum starved (c), (7) 50 mg/ml HSA (c), (8) 5 mg/ml HSA (d), (9) Serum starved (d). This blot contains biological replicates c and d of serum starved and 5 mg/ml albumin treated cultures. It also includes 50 mg/ml albumin treated culture samples b and c. 50 mg/ml albumin sample b is also included in p21 western blot 1 as the common sample for normalisation.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-14
###### Original image of Cyclin D1 western blot
Cyclin D1 western blot lanes 1--9 respectively. (1) Ladder, (2) 5 mg/ml HSA (a), (3) 50 mg/ml HSA (b), (4) Serum starved (a), 5) 5 mg/ml HSA (b), 6) 50 mg/ml HSA (c), (7) Serum starved (b), 8) 5 mg/ml HSA (c), 9) Serum starved (c) . This blot contains biological replicates a, b and c of serum starved and 5 mg/ml albumin; and replicates b and c of 50 mg/ml albumin treated cultures.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-15
###### Original image of GAPDH western blot loading control for Cyclin D1 western blot
Cyclin D1 western blot lanes 1--9 respectively. (1) Ladder, (2) 5 mg/ml HSA (a), (3) 50 mg/ml HSA (b), (4) Serum starved (a), (5) 5 mg/ml HSA (b), (6) 50 mg/ml HSA (c), (7) Serum starved (b), 8) 5 mg/ml HSA (c), 9) Serum starved (c) . This blot contains biological replicates a, b and c of serum starved and 5 mg/ml albumin; and replicates b and c of 50 mg/ml albumin treated cultures.
######
Click here for additional data file.
10.7717/peerj.8568/supp-16
###### Average relative densities of normalised western blot data from p21 and cyclin D1 western blots
######
Click here for additional data file.
We would like to thank Heike Potschka (Fraunhofer Institute for Cell therapy and Immunology, Rostock, Germany) for maintaining a standard cell culture laboratory, without which we would not have been able to proceed with our experiments. We would like to thank Wendy Bergman (Core Facility for Cell Sorting and Cell Analysis, University Medical Centre Rostock, Rostock, Germany) for her support with optimising the flow cytometry experiments.
Additional Information and Declarations
=======================================
The authors declare there are no competing interests.
[Badr Ibrahim](#author-1){ref-type="contrib"} conceived and designed the experiments, performed the experiments, analyzed the data, prepared figures and/or tables, authored or reviewed drafts of the paper, and approved the final draft.
[Jan Stange](#author-2){ref-type="contrib"} conceived and designed the experiments, authored or reviewed drafts of the paper, and approved the final draft.
[Adrian Dominik](#author-3){ref-type="contrib"} performed the experiments, prepared figures and/or tables, and approved the final draft.
[Martin Sauer](#author-4){ref-type="contrib"} analyzed the data, authored or reviewed drafts of the paper, and approved the final draft.
[Sandra Doss](#author-5){ref-type="contrib"} performed the experiments, prepared figures and/or tables, and approved the final draft.
[Martin Eggert](#author-6){ref-type="contrib"} conceived and designed the experiments, analyzed the data, authored or reviewed drafts of the paper, and approved the final draft.
The following information was supplied regarding data availability:
The raw measurements are available in the [Supplementary Files](#supplemental-information){ref-type="supplementary-material"}.
|
Tyler Antonacci has been hired to the King Athletic Training staff as an assistant trainer, effective July 2012. The Canton, Ohio native joins the Tornado training staff after extensive work that has taken him through multiple Divisions I and II athletic programs, minor league baseball, and the National Football League over the last six years. He is currently responsible for Tornado Soccer, Volleyball, and Swimming and Diving.
Antonacci joined the ranks of professional athletic trainers after receiving his certification and graduating from Baldwin-Wallace College (Berea, Ohio) in 2009. While working toward his degree, he served as an intern athletic trainer with the NFL’s Cleveland Browns in 2006. Prior to his graduation, he also served as an intern with Akron Aeros baseball, the AA affiliate of the Cleveland Indians.
He went on to serve as a graduate assistant athletic trainer at the University of Akron, working with the Zips’ women’s volleyball and women’s swimming and diving teams before moving on to Muskingum University (New Concord, Ohio). While with the Muskies, Antonacci served as the athletic trainer for the cross country, track & field, women’s soccer, and women’s volleyball teams while completing his graduate work.
While a student at Baldwin-Wallace, Antonacci was a three-year letter winner swimmer where he placed inside the top-10 at the 2006 and 2008 OAC Conference Championships in the 1,650-meter freestyle.
Antonacci earned his bachelor’s degree in athletic training and exercise science from Baldwin-Wallace in 2009. In 2012, he received his Master of Arts in Education with an adult education degree. As a part his final graduate project, he developed a six week offseason strength training program for the Muskingum women's soccer team that turned into an entire summer weight training program for the team. |
Phospholipid-Biomimetic Fluorescent Mitochondrial Probe with Ultrahigh Selectivity Enables In Situ and High-Fidelity Tissue Imaging.
In situ and directly imaging mitochondria in tissues instead of isolated cells can offer more native and accurate information. Particularly, in the clinical diagnose of mitochondrial diseases such as mitochondrial myopathy, it is a routine examination item to directly observe mitochondrial morphology and number in muscle tissues from patients. However, it is still a challenging task because the selectivity of available probes is inadequate for exclusively tissue imaging. Inspired by the chemical structure of amphiphilic phospholipids in mitochondrial inner membrane, we synthesized a phospholipid-biomimetic amphiphilic fluorescent probe (Mito-MOI) by modifying a C18-alkyl chain to the lipophilic side of carbazole-indolenine cation. Thus, the phospholipid-like Mito-MOI locates at mitochondrial inner membrane through electrostatic interaction between its cation and inner membrane negative charge. Simultaneously, the C18-alkyl chain, as the second targeting group, is deeply embedded into the hydrophobic region of inner membrane through hydrophobic interaction. Therefore, the dual targeting groups (cation and C18-alkyl chain) actually endow Mito-MOI with ultrahigh selectivity. As expected, high-resolution microscopic photos showed that Mito-MOI indeed stained mitochondrial inner membrane. Moreover, in situ and high-fidelity tissue imaging has been achieved, and particularly, four kinds of mitochondria and their crystal-like structure in muscle tissues were visualized clearly. Finally, the dynamic process of mitochondrial fission in living cells has been shown. The strategy employing dual targeting groups should have reference value for designing fluorescent probes with ultrahigh selectivity to various intracellular membranous components. |
P-glycoprotein-mediated resistance to chemotherapy in cancer cells: using recombinant cytosolic domains to establish structure-function relationships.
Resistance to chemotherapy in cancer cells is mainly mediated by overexpression of P-glycoprotein (Pgp), a plasma membrane ATP-binding cassette (ABC) transporter which extrudes cytotoxic drugs at the expense of ATP hydrolysis. Pgp consists of two homologous halves each containing a transmembrane domain and a cytosolic nucleotide-binding domain (NBD) which contains two consensus Walker motifs, A and B, involved in ATP binding and hydrolysis. The protein also contains an S signature characteristic of ABC transporters. The molecular mechanism of Pgp-mediated drug transport is not known. Since the transporter has an extraordinarily broad substrate specificity, its cellular function has been described as a "hydrophobic vacuum cleaner". The limited knowledge about the mechanism of Pgp, partly due to the lack of a high-resolution structure, is well reflected in the failure to efficiently inhibit its activity in cancer cells and thus to reverse multidrug resistance (MDR). In contrast to the difficulties encountered when studying the full-length Pgp, the recombinant NBDs can be obtained in large amounts as soluble proteins. The biochemical and biophysical characterization of recombinant NBDs is shown here to provide a suitable alternative route to establish structure-function relationships. NBDs were shown to bind ATP and analogues as well as potent modulators of MDR, such as hydrophobic steroids, at a region close to the ATP site. Interestingly, flavonoids also bind to NBDs with high affinity. Their binding site partly overlaps both the ATP-binding site and the steroid-interacting region. Therefore flavonoids constitute a new promising class of bifunctional modulators of Pgp. |
Q:
Is there any rule that says when SOAPAction is REQUIRED in the setRequestHeader?
Is there any rule that says when SOAPAction is REQUIRED in the setRequestHeader?
In my jQuery library (SPServices), I've been including the SOAPAction for every Web Service call. It turns out that is what is preventing anonymous access to the Web Services to work. When I remove SOAPAction entirely and I AM logged in, some calls fail with the following error:
errorstring: The security validation for this page is invalid. Click Back in your Web browser, refresh the page, and try your operation again.
errorcode: 0x8102006d
I suppose that it could be as simple as operations which read vs. operations which write, but I figured I'd toss it out there for ideas.
M.
UPDATE: @cwheeler76 pointed out this article from Jan Tielens:
The security validation for this page is invalid" when calling the SharePoint Web Services. It also describes the problem and the solution using SOAPAction. I'm looking for more the 'when' as opposed to the 'how'.
A:
Well, no one else had an answer, so I think I figured it out for myself. I'm going to mark my own answer here as the right one and see if I can push my points from 998 over 1000. UPDATE: Damn. I have to wait 12 hours to be a greedy point grabber and mark my own post as the answer.
The full answer and how I got to it is in my blog post entitled Allowing Anonymous Access with SharePoint Web Services and SPServices, but here's the meat of it:
It turns out that you don't need to pass the SOAPHeader if the Web Service operation is a read-only one. For instance, some of the most useful things, like GetListItems, don't require it. In my testing, none of the read-only operations need the SOAPHeader. Oddly, if you don't pass it with the read/write functions, they only fail if you are authenticated, the error says that you aren't authenticated, and that you should hit the back button and refresh. Well that's hardly helpful given that you aren't working interactively, but talking to the Web Services programmatically.
|
The effect of photodynamic therapy (PDT) on glucose levels within the SMT-F mouse tumor.
Tumor glucose levels were assessed at various times following in vivo photodynamic therapy (PDT) and compared to levels following induction of anoxia in mice bearing the SMT-F tumor. Uptake of 2-deoxy-D glucose by isolated tumor cells was not altered following in vivo PDT. Tumor glucose levels following PDT were found to decline in a similar albeit slower manner to those found under anoxic conditions for 40 minutes and thereafter they declined at a greater rate. These results suggest an ischemic mechanism of tumor destruction characterized by the progressive development of stasis followed by hemorrhage resulting in the rapid depletion of extracellular glucose. |
Outreach
The Haitian Community outreach was formed after several meetings between the City of Fort Lauderdale Police Department and the local Haitian leaders.
As a result, Town Hall meetings were held to bring the community and police together to discuss issues of importance to the Haitian community.
These issues include language barriers, cultural and diversity issues and policing in the community. Having a diverse police force helps to better address the situations that arise in our diverse communities. It is important to have people in place that understand the needs of our residents. These initiatives have helped foster better relations between the police and our growing Haitian Community.
The City of Fort Lauderdale Police Department has a diverse group of Sworn and Civilian personnel that are more aware of the uniqueness and vitality of our community. This awareness allows us and the Haitian Community to build relationships necessary to improve the quality of life in our city. |
Speech by FG Leader, Enda Kenny, at the Young Fine Gael Annual Conference
The Fine Gael Leader Enda Kenny, TD, today (Saturday) attacked the Minister for Education and Fianna Fail for their attitude to the Irish language. He was speaking at the Young Fine Gael Annual Conference in the Ramada Hotel, Limerick Junction. He said that it was time for an open and honest debate. It was also time for an end to Minister Hanafin and her party’s conservative, negative and dishonest approach to reform and it was time for the Minister to end her Comical Ali approach to the language.
FF part of the problem…not part of the solution
“It’s time that we acknowledged that the Irish language is in trouble. Some of that trouble is the product of Fianna Fáil’s attitude to the language. In simple terms, Fianna Fail is part of the problem, not part of the solution. It is only when we remove Fianna Fail from Government that an honest, open and realistic attitude will develop towards the language.
If the Irish language is to survive and indeed grow in usage, there must be a fundamental change in approach.
It must cease to be used as a political tool to fight political battles. There is no party in this State as adept as Fianna Fail in making a political football out of issues around the language.
Last November I highlighted some stark facts about the language especially in our secondary schools and called for an open and honest look at the issue. Within twelve hours the Minister for Education had launched a political attack on me without even taking time to read or reflect on the merits of any suggestions that I made.
Within weeks Fianna Fail took their attack to the European stage when the Fine Gael Party and myself were attacked in a completely inappropriate way at a European function.
In recent weeks, the Minister for Education again criticised Fine Gael in the Dáil and used an emotive term, “the murder machine” to characterise our attitude to the language.
Fianna Fail Don’t Own the Language
I have no problem with political attacks. They are part of the cut and thrust of the political life we live. However, these attacks were not based on the merits or otherwise of the points that were made.
They were based on a political ideology that the Irish language somehow belongs to Fianna Fail and only Fianna Fail.
These attacks say much more about the Minister for Education and the Fianna Fail ethos than they do about Fine Gael. It shows that the largest Party in the State is against reform. Against adopting progressive ideas. Against admitting that policies which have been pursued, over the decades, have failed the Irish language.
We will only reform and revive the Irish language and promote its use across our society if we first of all accept the reality of where are at the moment.
Facts the Minister Ignores
Let me set out some facts for the Minister for Education:
· Even though our young people receive, on average, 1,500 hours of education in Irish, many are leaving school without any reasonable command of the language.
· Despite the fact that they learn Irish all through their schooling, only 3 out of 10 students of Irish attempt the honours paper in the Leaving Certificate.
· Thousands of leaving cert students don’t even turn up for the exam every year.
· An average of 66 second level schools have had an Irish inspection in the past two years. At that rate every second level school will have an Irish inspection every decade
· Over 8,000 second level students are granted an exemption from Irish on the basis on “learning difficulties”. This suggests that parents are using the exemption scheme to have their children drop Irish
· There has been no revision of the second level Irish syllabus since 1995
· A report which shows shocking decline in the quality of Irish in our primary schools has been withheld by the Minster for a matter of months.
An Honest Debate, New Ideas
Now more than ever we need an honest debate on Irish, with new ideas for the reform and renewal of the language. For this reason, I am holding a conference on Irish on Saturday, March 11th.
This public conference, 21st Century Irish, brings together speakers from an educational and political background, both national and international. I want this conference to be a sounding board for a new approach to Irish, an approach that not only seeks to support the language, but one which is rooted in the educational needs and achievements of our children and young people.
Certainly, there will be opposing opinion at this conference but, most importantly, there will be an open and honest debate. This is in sharp contrast to the approach of Minister Hanafin, who simply doesn’t want any debate on this matter. For her, it’s easier to demonise different viewpoints, and liberally scatter political insults, than face the facts.
The Irish language desperately needs a real engagement with a reforming agenda. The decisions we take now will have ramifications for the language for years to come. Our agenda must involve a root and branch reform of the curriculum.
Let me outline a few ideas that I believe should be pursued.
New Ideas
We need to radically skew the weighting of both the Junior and Leaving Certificate courses in favour of spoken Irish with up to 50% of the marks in each exam being related to oral ability. If young people can use the language to communicate with each other, if they have the skill and the vocabulary to talk about the things that interest them, then we will see a major shift towards the usage of Irish outside the classroom.
We need a second level curriculum that is loaded with topics that are modern, relevant and useful, not dated, irrelevant and obscure.
We also need to support schools where the teaching of Irish may be running out of steam. A new Language Support Corps, a flying squad of highly trained and motivated individuals, should be established to spend 3 or 4 week periods at individual schools, bringing with them a range of new ideas on how to teach Irish through drama, music and sport. This would invigorate the teaching of Irish to levels never before seen, levels only dreamed about.
I have seen some very exciting ideas for a national proficiency scale for the Irish language. This ten point scale would allow every citizen have their competence assessed and use modern teaching methods and modern technology to gradually improve their proficiency at a pace that suits themselves. Many people have the cúpla focal but feel intimidated about trying to go further. Having a state recognised proficiency scale, backed with a mix of progressive teaching tools, would provide a safe environment for improving language skills.
A National Strategy
Above all we need a Government that will produce a National Strategy for the Irish language. A Strategy that makes a clear and honest assessment of
· where we are,· what the Government wants to achieve for the language,· what Government can do and what we want and expect others in society to do to support us.
A National Strategy will ensure that all bodies and all initiatives working for the Irish language have a clearly defined role and a clear sense of purpose.
It is time for an open and honest debate. It is time for an end to Minister Hanafin and her party’s conservative, negative and dishonest approach. It is time for the Minister to end her Comical Ali approach to the language.
We will only see genuine reform when we remove Fianna Fail from office and put in parties who will be open and honest about the problems faced by the language. Fianna Fail is part of the problem not part of the solution”. |
A Mallika Restaurant in Bangkok
Michael Babcock, December 1st, 2012
A. Mallika is one of our favorite Bangkok restaurants. The food in Thailand is, of course, one of the main attractions of the country. Kasma takes most of her small-group tours to Thailand to A. Mallika for one of their first in-country meals and the food is always spectacularly good.
Outdoor seating at A. Mallika
Inside A. Mallika
(Click images to see larger version.)
There are two options for seating at A. Mallika. There’s an outdoor seating area with a pond under a large tree with potted plants decorating the area. It’s an attractive area but we usually opt to sit inside because we typically are at A. Mallika for lunch and in the middle of the day it can be quite warm outside. There are a number of different rooms indoors, including the room above, which has many tables, as well as private (air-conditioned) rooms, which is where we often eat with Kasma’s tour groups. The restaurant can get very crowded, particularly on weekend nights, so reservations are a good idea.
The Food
The food at A. Mallika is really quite good, both in presentation and in taste. Here are some of the different dishes frequently ordered by Kasma.
Miang Pla Too
One of the dishes Kasma always starts a group with is เมี่ยงปลาทู (Miang Pla Too): Tasty tidbits and a hot-and-sour mackerel salad are wrapped with lettuce leaves and eaten like เมี่ยงคำ (Miang Kum). It’s a fun appetizier, one that you assemble yourself by placing each of the individual ingredients into a leaf, wrapping them all up into a ball and then popping the whole thing into your mouth; the pleasure comes from the delightful explosion of flavors from all the various ingredients.
Kanom Krok
The second appetizer that Kasma orders is ขนมครก (Kanom Krok) – Grilled Coconut-Rice Hot Cakes. Although these are usually made as a street food, many restaurants also have them on the menu. On Kasma’s trips to Thailand, we seldom miss an opportunity to sample some of these delightfully delicious snacks. Here they are made with green onions (scallions) giving a savory edge to the snack. Kanom Krok are typically made with two batters: the lower batter is mostly sweet and the top batter, less of which is added, is salty giving two contrasting flavors to tickle the palate.
It’s very hard to pass up ordering the dish on the right – Crispy-Fried Stewed Pork Leg. First a pork-leg, complete with skin on, is stewed to tenderness. It’s then deep-fried so that the outside is crispy and the fat just next to the skin is somewhat caramelized. It is very delicious.
Hot-and-Sour Soup
Individual serving of soup
Above we see a delicious a ต้มยำ (Tom Yum) – Hot-and-Sour Soup. Very spicy and full of delicious Thai herbs.
Cha-om & Seafood Salad
Oyster Sauce Vegetable
To the left above we see A delicious salad of deep-fried cha-om (a kind of edible tropical acacia), topped with a seafood and chopped pork sauce. It’s spicy, sour and somewhat sweet with the deep-fried green providing an interesting texture. Very delicious.
To the right we see one of our favorite vegetable dishes Stir-fried Vegetables with Oyster Sauce – ผักผัดน้ำมันหอย (Pad Pak Nam Mon Hoi), what I think of as The Universal Vegetable Recipe.
Coconut Ice Cream
We definitely recommend that you leave space for the Coconut Ice Cream – ไอศครีมมะพร้าว (Ai Kreme Maprao) at the end of the meal. It’s more like a sorbet and is tasty and refreshing, a great way to end a meal. If you’re particularly hungry (hard to imagine after all that delicious food!), you can get a larger portion that comes served in a young coconut shell.
Getting to A. Mallika
A Mallika Sign
Map to A. Mallika
It’s not the easiest restaurant to get to. It’s a bit on the outskirts of town and it is easiest to get to if you are able to drive or be driven. You may want to check out the Google Map for A. Mallika.
Ruen Mallika Royal Thai Cuisine
There is a sister restaurant run by the same people: Ruen Mallika Royal Thai Cuisine at 189 Soi Sukhumvit 20, Sukhumvit Road, Klongtoey, Klongtoey, Bangkok 10110. It’s a fancier place with excellent food and is a bit more accessible to central Bangkok. If you go there, we recommend you print out the map from their website – it can be a bit hard to find.
3 Responses to “A Mallika Restaurant in Bangkok”
[…] an essential part of a dish? The Crispy Fried Cha-Om Salad (Yum Cha-Om Krob) above left is from A. Mallika Restaurant in Bangkok. Cha-Om is part of the acacia family – see Kasma’s blog: Cha-Om – A […]
[…] There are two restaurants run by the same company with the name Mallika. Our favorite, and where Kasma always takes her trips to Thailand is actually called A. Mallika. It is a large indoor and outdoor restaurant in the outskirts of town on one of the new highways where many large garden restaurants are located. It has a more extensive menu with unusual dishes not seen in any other restaurants; the food is also better and spicier since it caters mainly to Thai families with cars. Get the sour ribs. They also have a peppered ostrich dish that is good, as is the soft shell crab. Wonderful coconut ice cream. It’s address is 13/10 Moo 9, Kaset-Navamin Road, Boong Koom District, Bangkok 10230, Tel. 0-2946-1000. Check out the photos by a former trip member (click on the photos to see a larger version with caption). Also, check out Michael’s 2012 blog on the subject: A Mallika Restaurant in Bangkok. […] |
TSGs
: tumor suppressor genes
AML
: acute myeloid leukemia
MDS
: myelodysplastic syndromes
HMAs
: hypomethylating agents
*DNMTs*
: DNA methyltransferases
LSC
: leukemia stem cell
HSC
: hematopoietic stem cell
CCLE
: Cancer Cell Line Encyclopedia
HPA
: The Human Protein Atlas
EMBL-EBI
: European Bioinformatics Institute
GEPIA
: Gene Expression Profiling Interactive Analysis
TCGA
: The Cancer Genome Atlas
GTEx
: The Genotype-Tissue Expression
WBC
: white blood cells
PB
: peripheral blood
BM
: bone marrow
FAB
: French-American-British
HSCT
: hematopoietic stem cell transplantation
CN-AML
: cytogenetically normal AML
OS
: overall survival
LFS
: leukemia-free survival
DEGs
: differentially expressed genes
GO
: Gene Ontology
INTRODUCTION
============
DNA methylation, as the most common epigenetic modification, plays a crucial role in tissue- and stage-specific gene regulation, genomic imprinting, and X-chromosome inactivation, and has shown to be essential for normal mammalian development \[[@r1]\]. Also, accumulating studies have proved that both global DNA hypomethylation and hypermethylation occur frequently in tumorigenesis \[[@r2]\]. The hypermethylation of CpG islands at the promoter regions is often associated with the inactivation of tumor suppressor genes (TSGs) \[[@r3]\]. In hematopoietic disorders, aberrant DNA hypermethylation is proved to be involved in leukemogenesis \[[@r4]\]. For example, Spencer et al demonstrated that CpG island hypermethylation mediated by *DNMT3A* was a consequence of acute myeloid leukemia (AML) progression \[[@r5]\]. In addition, aberrant DNA methylation was also regarded as a dominant mechanism in progression from myelodysplastic syndromes (MDS) to AML \[[@r6]\]. Furthermore, deregulated DNA methylation in MDS and AML has led to the approval for the clinical use of hypomethylating agents (HMAs) in both MDS and AML patients \[[@r7]\].
DNA methyltransferases (*DNMTs*) are the main key effectors of DNA methylation by catalyzing the transfer of methyl groups from S-adenosyl-lmethionine to the 5'-position of cytosine residing in the dinucleotide sequence cytosine-guanine \[[@r8]\]. The *DNMTs* include three major members (*DNMT1*, *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B*), among which *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* catalyze cytosine methylation of mammalian genomic DNA to establish *de novo* DNA methylation patterns, whereas *DNMT1* maintains a methylation state through DNA replication \[[@r9]\]. Recent studies have demonstrated that *DNMTs* play vital roles in the progression of hematologic malignancies, especially AML \[[@r10]\]. Trowbridge et al showed that haploinsufficiency of *DNMT1* impaired leukemia stem cell (LSC) function through derepression of bivalent chromatin domains \[[@r11]\]. More importantly, high incidence of *DNMT3A* mutation was identified in AML and *DNMT3A* mutation correlated with poor prognosis in AML \[[@r12]\]. Functional studies showed that *DNMT3A* was essential for hematopoietic stem cell (HSC) differentiation and mutated *DNMT3A* initiated AML \[[@r13]--[@r14]\], suggesting *DNMT3A* acted as a tumor suppressor gene. Although *DNMT3B* was rarely mutated in AML \[[@r15]\], studies have proved that loss of *DNMT3B* accelerated MLL-AF9 leukemia progression and increased expression of *DNMT3B* in LSC delayed leukemogenesis \[[@r16]--[@r17]\]. A few studies have shown the expression of *DNMTs* and their clinical significance in AML, but the results remain to be discussed \[[@r18]--[@r21]\]. Herein, we systemically analyzed *DNMTs* expression and their relationship with clinic-pathological features and prognosis in patients with AML.
RESULTS
=======
DNMTs expression associated with AML among human cancer cell lines
------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the Cancer Cell Line Encyclopedia (CCLE) databases, we found that expression of *DNMTs* was highly expressed in AML cell lines among 40 types of human cancer cell lines ([Figure 1A](#f1){ref-type="fig"}). Moreover, *DNMTs* expression was also closely associated with myeloid cell lines revealed by The Human Protein Atlas (HPA) databases ([Figure 1B](#f1){ref-type="fig"}). The detailed comparison of *DNMTs* expression in 14 types of AML cell lines was assessed by using the European Bioinformatics Institute (EMBL-EBI) website, which was shown in [Figure 1C](#f1){ref-type="fig"}.
{#f1}
DNMTs expression associated with AML patients among human cancers
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We further determined expression of *DNMTs* in AML patients by using Gene Expression Profiling Interactive Analysis (GEPIA) dataset. Aberrant expression of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* was observed in AML among 33 types of human cancers, whereas *DNMT1* did not show significant difference in AML ([Figure 2A](#f2){ref-type="fig"}). *DNMT3A* expression was significantly increased in AML patients, whereas *DNMT3B* expression was markedly decreased in AML patients ([Figure 2B](#f2){ref-type="fig"}). Moreover, *DNMT1* expression was slightly associated with both *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* expression, whereas *DNMT3A* expression was positively correlated with *DNMT3B* expression in AML patients ([Figure 2C](#f2){ref-type="fig"}).
{#f2}
Association between DNMT3A/3B expression and clinical characteristics in AML
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since aberrant expression of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* was identified in AML, we further explore their clinical significance in patients with AML. Clinical implication of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* was obtained by the comparison of clinical/laboratory characteristics of the AML patients between two groups divided based on median level of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* transcript ([Table 1](#t1){ref-type="table"}). Interestingly, *DNMT3A* overexpression was associated younger age and lower white blood cells (WBCs) (*P*=0.008 and 0.063, respectively), higher peripheral blood (PB) blasts (*P*=0.006). Among the distribution of French-American-British (FAB) and cytogenetic subtypes, *DNMT3A* overexpression was associated with higher frequency of FAB-M0/M2, t(8;21), and -7/del(7) (*P=*0.009, 0.028, 0.007, and 0.007, respectively), whereas lower frequency of FAB-M4/M5 and normal karyotype (*P*=0.004, 0.001, and 0.000, respectively). In addition, *DNMT3B* underexpression was correlated with higher WBCs and lower PB blasts (*P*=0.041 and 0.006, respectively). Among the distribution of FAB and cytogenetic subtypes, *DNMT3B* underexpression was associated with higher frequency of FAB-M4/M5 and inv(16) (*P*=0.000, 0.000, and 0.001, respectively), but lower frequency of FAB-M1 and complex karyotype (*P*=0.000 and 0.000, respectively).
###### Correlation of *DNMT3A/B* expression with clinic-pathologic characteristics in AML.
------------------------------ ------------------------- ------------------------- ---------------- ----------------- ------------------ -----------
**Patient's parameters** ***DNMT3A* expression** ***DNMT3B* expression**
**Low (n=87)** **High (n=86)** ***P*** **Low (n=87)** **High (n=86)** ***P***
Sex, male/female 47/40 45/41 0.879 47/40 45/41 0.879
Median age, years (range) 60 (18-88) 54 (21-81) **0.008** 58 (18-88) 57 (21-81) 0.922
Median WBC, ×10^9^/L (range) 25.9 (0.8-137.2) 11.5 (0.4-297.4) **0.063** 22.2 (1-137.2) 10.7 (0.4-297.4) **0.041**
Median PB blasts, % (range) 17 (0-97) 48 (0-98) **0.006** 25 (0-94) 49 (0-98) **0.006**
Median BM blasts, % (range) 75 (30-98) 72 (32-100) 0.788 73 (30-99) 72 (30-100) 0.951
FAB classifications **0.000** **0.000**
M0 3 13 0.009 5 11
M1 19 25 11 33 0.000
M2 13 25 0.028 17 21
M3 6 10 7 9
M4 25 9 0.004 28 6 0.000
M5 16 2 0.001 17 1 0.000
M6 1 1 0 2
M7 3 0 1 2
No data 1 1 1 1
Cytogenetics **0.000** **0.000**
normal 55 25 0.000 42 38
t(15;17) 6 9 7 8
t(8;21) 0 7 0.007 6 1
inv(16) 2 8 10 0 0.001
+8 4 4 3 5
del(5) 1 0 0 1
-7/del(7) 0 7 0.007 2 5
11q23 2 1 3 0
others 5 9 9 5
complex 11 14 4 21 0.000
No data 1 2 1 2
Gene mutation
FLT3 (+/-) 28/59 21/65 0.312 22/65 27/59 0.402
NPM1 (+/-) 37/50 11/75 **0.000** 24/63 24/62 1.000
DNMT3A (+/-) 30/57 12/74 **0.002** 20/67 22/64 0.725
IDH2 (+/-) 11/76 6/80 0.307 8/79 9/77 0.804
IDH1 (+/-) 11/76 5/81 0.188 4/83 12/74 **0.038**
TET2 (+/-) 5/82 10/76 0.188 8/79 7/79 1.000
RUNX1 (+/-) 8/79 7/79 1.000 9/78 6/80 0.590
TP53 (+/-) 8/79 6/80 0.782 2/85 12/74 **0.005**
NRAS (+/-) 8/79 4/82 0.370 7/80 5/81 0.766
CEBPA (+/-) 4/83 9/77 0.162 6/81 7/79 0.782
WT1 (+/-) 4/83 6/80 0.535 4/83 6/80 0.535
PTPN11 (+/-) 5/82 3/83 0.720 4/83 4/82 1.000
KIT (+/-) 1/86 6/80 0.064 5/82 2/84 0.443
U2AF1 (+/-) 4/83 3/83 1.000 3/84 4/82 0.720
KRAS (+/-) 4/83 3/83 1.000 4/83 3/83 1.000
SMC1A (+/-) 4/83 3/83 1.000 5/82 2/84 0.443
SMC3 (+/-) 4/83 3/83 1.000 3/84 4/82 0.720
PHF6 (+/-) 3/84 2/84 1.000 3/84 2/84 1.000
STAG2 (+/-) 2/85 3/83 0.682 2/85 3/83 0.682
RAD21 (+/-) 2/85 2/84 1.000 3/84 1/85 0.621
------------------------------ ------------------------- ------------------------- ---------------- ----------------- ------------------ -----------
AML: acute myeloid leukemia; WBC: white blood cells; PB: peripheral blood; BM: bone marrow; FAB: French-American-British.
Correlation between DNMT3A/3B expression and gene mutations in AML
------------------------------------------------------------------
Among the common gene mutations in AML, patients with *DNMT3A* overexpression showed lower *NPM1* and *DNMT3A* mutation rates (*P*=0.000 and 0.002, respectively), whereas cases with *DNMT3B* underexpression presented lower frequency of *IDH1* and *TP53* mutation (*P*=0.038 and 0.005, respectively). In addition, we further compared the expression of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* in mutation and wild-type groups of these genes ([Figure 3](#f3){ref-type="fig"}).
{#f3}
Prognostic value of DNMTs expression in AML
-------------------------------------------
We next evaluate the prognostic effect of *DNMTs* expression on survival in AML. By Kaplan-Meier analysis, only *DNMT3A* overexpression was associated with longer overall survival (OS) and leukemia-free survival (LFS) in whole-cohort AML (*P*=0.001 and 0.003, respectively, [Figure 4](#f4){ref-type="fig"}). In order to confirm the independent prognostic value of *DNMT3A* expression on both OS and LFS, we performed Cox regression analysis adjusting for prognosis-related factors. By Cox regression multivariate analysis, *DNMT3A* expression could act as an independent prognostic biomarker for OS in whole-cohort AML ([Table 2](#t2){ref-type="table"}). However, no significant differences were observed in either *DNMT1* or *DNMT3B* groups ([Figure 4](#f4){ref-type="fig"}).
{#f4}
###### Cox regression analyses of variables for overall survival and leukemia-free survival in AML.
--------------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------------- --------------------- -------
**Variables** **Overall survival** **Leukemia-free survival**
**Hazard ratio (95% CI)** ***P*** **Hazard ratio (95% CI)** ***P***
*DNMT3A* expression 0.628 (0.429-0.920) 0.017 0.696 (0.476-1.020) 0.063
Age 1.038 (1.022-1.053) 0.000 1.034 (1.019-1.049) 0.000
WBC 1.008 (1.003-1.012) 0.001 1.008 (1.004-1.012) 0.000
Molecular risk 2.148 (1.537-3.000) 0.000 1.901 (1.382-2.614) 0.000
*FLT3* mutation 1.686 (1.082-2.627) 0.021 1.719 (1.100-2.687) 0.017
*CEBPA* mutation 1.685 (0.799-3.553) 0.171 1.732 (0.814-3.687) 0.154
*NPM1* mutation 0.742 (0.425-1.297) 0.295 0.810 (0.471-1.394) 0.447
*DNMT3A* mutation 1.309 (0.812-2.110) 0.269 1.134 (0.717-1.793) 0.592
*RUNX1* mutation 1.940 (1.288-2.924) 0.002 1.660 (1.104-2.498) 0.015
*TET2* mutation 0.767 (0.386-1.524) 0.448 0.824 (0.414-1.639) 0.581
*TP53* mutation 2.900 (1.483-5.669) 0.002 2.616 (1.350-5.068) 0.004
*IDH1* mutation 0.702 (0.337-1.463) 0.344 0.751 (0.344-1.639) 0.472
*IDH2* mutation 0.644 (0.338-1.226) 0.180 0.649 (0.344-1.225) 0.183
*ASXL1* mutation 1.779 (0.503-6.289) 0.372 1.813 (0.509-6.459) 0.359
--------------------------- ---------------------- ---------------------------- --------------------- -------
AML: acute myeloid leukemia; CI: confidence interval; WBC: white blood cells. Variables in multivariate analysis including *DNMT3A* expression (low vs. high), age, WBC, karyotype (favorable vs. intermediate vs. poor), and gene mutations (mutant vs. wild-type).
DNMT3A expression may guide treatment choice between chemotherapy and HSCT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because lower *DNMT3A* expression predicted poor clinical outcome in AML, we intended to investigate whether patients with lower *DNMT3A* expression could benefit from HSCT. We compared OS and LFS between patients with and without HSCT in both lower and higher *DNMT3A* expression groups. In lower *DNMT3A* expression groups, patients who received HSCT showed significantly longer OS and LFS than patients who were not treated with HSCT among both total AML ([Figure 5](#f5){ref-type="fig"}). However, in higher *DNMT3A* expression groups, there were no significant differences in OS and LFS between two groups ([Figure 5](#f5){ref-type="fig"}). Taken together, AML patients with lower *DNMT3A* expression could benefit from HSCT, whereas those with higher *DNMT3A* expression did not. Therefore, we deduced that *DNMT3A* expression pattern may guide treatment choice between chemotherapy and HSCT.
{#f5}
Molecular signature correlated with DNMT3A expression in AML
------------------------------------------------------------
To gain insights into the biological function of *DNMT3A* in AML, we first compared the transcriptomes of lower and higher *DNMT3A* expression groups. A total of 972 differentially expressed genes (DEGs) were identified including 428 positively correlated genes and 544 negatively correlated genes (FDR\<0.05, *P*\<0.05, \|log2 FC\|\>1.5; [Figure 6A](#f6){ref-type="fig"}; [Supplementary Table 1](#SD1){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). Positively correlated genes such as *MN1*, *BAALC*, *CD34*, and *H19* have been reported as proto-oncogenes in AML \[[@r22]--[@r24]\]. Furthermore, the Gene Ontology (GO) analysis was also showed in [Figure 6B](#f6){ref-type="fig"}.
{#f6}
We next compared microRNA expression signature between high and low *DNMT3A* expression groups. A total of 88 differentially expressed microRNAs were identified consisting of 40 positively correlated microRNAs and 48 negatively correlated microRNAs (FDR\<0.05, *P*\<0.05; [Figure 6C](#f6){ref-type="fig"}; [Supplementary Table 1](#SD2){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). The most positively correlated microRNAs such as *miR-335*, *miR-146a*, *miR-130a*, and *miR-126* were seen as oncogenic microRNAs in AML \[[@r25]--[@r28]\]. Moreover, negatively correlated microRNAs including *miR-22*, *miR-29b*, *miR-9*, and *miR-429* were reported as anti-leukemia roles in AML biology \[[@r29]--[@r32]\]. Of these negatively correlated microRNAs, *miR-29b* and *miR-429* were identified as the predicted microRNAs that could target *DNMT3A* directly ([Figure 6D](#f6){ref-type="fig"}, [Supplementary Table 2](#SD2){ref-type="supplementary-material"}). Obviously, further studies are required to confirm the direct connections between *DNMT3A* and *miR-429* by luciferase assay.
DISCUSSION
==========
In this study, we systemically analyzed *DNMTs* expression and their relationship with clinic-pathological features and prognosis in patients with AML. We found that *DNMT3A* expression was increased in AML, whereas *DNMT3B* expression was decreased in AML. Although previous study showed *DNMTs* overexpression and its negative prognostic effects in AML \[[@r18]--[@r21]\], recent researches revealed that *DNMT3B* expression was decreased in AML blasts, whereas *DNMT1* and *DNMT3A* expression showed no significant differences \[[@r16], [@r33]\]. Additionally, the potential roles of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* in AML remained poorly defined. Peters et al previously showed the tumor suppressor functions of *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* in the prevention of malignant mouse lymphopoiesis, but not in the development of myeloid malignancies \[[@r34]\]. However, ectopic *DNMT3B* expression was reported to delay leukemogenesis \[[@r17]\], and the loss of *DNMT3B* accelerated MLL-AF9 leukemia progression \[[@r16]\]. These studies demonstrated that *DNMT3B* played a crucial role in AML development, but may not act as a cancer-related driver gene during leukemogenesis. As for *DNMT3A*, it was indicated that *DNMT3A* loss progressively impaired HSC differentiation \[[@r13]\]. Notably, loss of *DNMT3A* and endogenous *KRAS*^G12D/+^ cooperated to regulate hematopoietic stem and progenitor cell functions in leukemogenesis \[[@r35]\]. In our study, we also observed the significant associations of *DNMT3A* expression with other molecular events such as *NPM1* and *DNMT3A* mutations. These studies suggested that *DNMT3A* generally not worked independently in the development of AML, and it may cooperate with other molecular events.
The prognostic value of *DNMT3A* mutation in AML has been systemically revealed. Increasing studies showed that *DNMT3A* mutations were independently associated with poor outcome in AML patients with an intermediate-risk cytogenetic profile or CN-AML \[[@r12], [@r36]\]. Moreover, loss-of-function of *DNMT3A* caused by mutations or underexpression predicted response to the HMAs decitabine treatment in AML \[[@r37]\]. In this study, low *DNMT3A* expression was observed to act as an independent prognostic biomarker in AML and also helpful for the selecting treatment choice between chemotherapy and HSCT. Interestingly, although two recent reports showed that high *DNMT3B* expression was a poor prognostic biomarker in AML \[[@r19], [@r20]\], we did not observe the association of aberrant *DNMT3B* expression with AML survival. The differences may be caused by the specific cell population selection and different ethnics. Obviously, prospective studies are needed to confirm and expand our results before *DNMT3A* expression pattern can be used routinely as a potential prognostic biomarker guiding treatment choice for newly diagnosed AML.
Despite that the role of *DNMT3A* in regulation of DNA methylation is well-known, the potential mechanism regulating *DNMT3A* was poorly investigated. Jost et al reported that aberrant DNA hypermethylation within the *DNMT3A* gene was frequently observed in AML, and was associated with downregulation of *DNMT3A* mRNA transcript 2 \[[@r38]\]. Moreover, *DNMT3A* was also identified as a direct target of a number of microRNAs such as *miR-30a-3p*, *miR-133a-3p*, *miR-450*, *miR-29a/b/c,* and *miR-129-5p* \[[@r39]--[@r43]\]. From our study, we observed the direct association of two microRNAs *miR-29b* and *miR-429* with *DNMT3A* in AML. Although several studies showed the direct link between *DNMT3A* and *miR-29b* in other human cancers, little studies showed the direct correlation between *miR-429* and *DNMT3A* in any type of human cancers. Interestingly, our pervious study disclosed that *miR-429* expression was decreased in AML \[[@r32]\], which presented the opposite expression pattern of *DNMT3A* in AML. Accordingly, further studies are required to confirm the direct associations of *DNMT3A* with *miR-429* by luciferase assay.
In summary, although we analyzed the expression and prognosis analysis of *DNMTs* expression only by public databases, our study demonstrated that *DNMT3A* and *DNMT3B* showed significant expression differences in AML. Moreover, *DNMT3A* expression acted as a potential prognostic biomarker and may guide treatment choice between chemotherapy and HSCT in AML.
MATERIALS AND METHODS
=====================
CCLE, HPA, and EMBL-EBI dataset
-------------------------------
*DNMTs* expression in human cancer cell lines were assessed by the Cancer Cell Line Encyclopedia (CCLE) dataset (<https://www.broadinstitute.org/ccle>) \[[@r44]\] and also evaluated by The Human Protein Atlas (HPA) dataset (<https://www.proteinatlas.org/>) \[[@r45]\]. Moreover, *DNMTs* expression in AML cell lines was verified by the European Bioinformatics Institute (EMBL-EBI) dataset (<https://www.ebi.ac.uk>) \[[@r46]\].
GEPIA dataset
-------------
*DNMTs* expression in AML patients and normal controls was analyzed by the Gene Expression Profiling Interactive Analysis (GEPIA) web (<http://gepia.cancer-pku.cn/>), whose data obtained from The Cancer Genome Atlas (TCGA) and the Genotype-Tissue Expression (GTEx) projects \[[@r47]\].
Patients from TCGA datasets
---------------------------
A total of 173 AML patients with available *DNMTs* expression data from TCGA were identified and included in this study \[[@r15]\]. Clinical and molecular characteristics were collected including age, sex, white blood cell (WBC) counts, peripheral blood (PB) blasts, bone marrow (BM) blasts, French-American-British (FAB) subtypes and the frequencies of genetic mutations. After induction chemotherapy, consolidation treatment included chemotherapy (100 patients received) and hematopoietic stem cell transplantation (HSCT) (73 patients received).
Bioinformatics analyses
-----------------------
The details for the identification of microRNAs targeting *DNMT3A* were reported as our previous study \[[@r48], [@r49]\].
Statistical analyses
--------------------
SPSS 22.0 were used for statistical analyses and figures creation. Mann-Whitney's *U* test was used for the comparison of continuous variables, whereas Pearson Chi-square analysis or Fisher exact test was applied for the comparison of categorical variables. The prognostic effect of *DNMTs* expression was evaluated using leukemia-free survival (LFS) and overall survival (OS) analyzed though Kaplan-Meier analysis and Cox regression analysis. The two-tailed *P* value \< 0.05 in all statistical analyses was defined as statistically significant.
Ethical approval and consent to participate
-------------------------------------------
The present study approved by the Ethics Committee and Institutional Review Board of the Affiliated People's Hospital of Jiangsu University. Written informed consents were obtained from all enrolled individuals prior to their participation.
Supplementary Material
======================
**AUTHOR CONTRIBUTIONS:** Jing-dong Zhou conceived and designed the experiments, Ting-juan Zhang, Liu-chao Zhang, Zi-jun Xu and Jing-dong Zhou analyzed the data, all authors read and approved the final manuscript.
**CONFLICTS OF INTEREST:** The authors declare that they have no conficts of interest.
**FUNDING:** The work was supported by National Natural Science foundation of China (81900166, 81970118), Zhenjiang Clinical Research Center of Hematology (SS2018009). Very thanks for Prof. Jun Qian providing technical and financial support.
[^1]: Equal contribution
|
Q:
mount same tmpfs on two mountpoints
I have this in my /etc/fstab:
tmpfs /home/user1/tmp tmpfs rw,nodev,nosuid,noexec,size=16G 0 0
user1 has tmpfs mounted as /home/user1/tmp.
I would like to mount same tmpfs for user2 as well, so that they can share same tmpfs.
How can I do this in fstab, so that user2 has same tmpfs mounted at /home/user1/tmp ?
A:
Add another line with a bind mount:
/home/user1/tmp /home/user2/tmp none bind,x-systemd.requires=/home/user1/tmp
The systemd is just for ordering, but you may not need/want it.
|
Glendalough Wild Botanical Gin
$69.00
Notify me when this product is available:
The aim of Glendalough Distillery is to recapture Ireland’s lost heritage of great spirit production and create new, exciting and contemporary brands. After many attempts, Glendalough Distillery has captured four... |
The Plain Dealer: Experts confirmed that using fake drug checkpoints to identify suspicious drivers is legal. Michael Benza, senior instructor of law, said motorists often don’t know their rights. “You must stop when an officer pulls you over for a traffic violation, but it does not necessarily mean they can search your car without your permission,” he said. |
Pak will use F16 against us: Baloch envoy to UN
Geneva: Baloch representative to the United Nations Human Rights Council and the European Union Mehran Marri on Sunday condemned the move by the United States Government to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, saying that Islamabad would use them against the Baloch population.
“We condemn the sale of any arms and ammunition to Pakistan Government and military, especially F16 with mountainous capabilities because they’re purely used against Baloch population,” said Mehran.
“It is a sad and black day in the history that more weapons of destruction have been sold to Pakistani military. During Bin Laden era, America and European Union heavily armed the Pakistan military to find Bin Laden and eliminate him. But we came to know that Bin Laden was sitting in their lap in Abbottabad,” he added.
Mehran also feared that Islamabad, which has been using the arms and ammunitions against the Baloch, would now use it against them again.
Taking a major step towards finalising the deal, the United States government on March 6 had formally issued a notification on the sale of eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan.
The notification estimates the total cost of the deal to be nearly USD 700 million.
However, India and some US lawmakers are questioning Washington’s move and that if such an arms transfer will help combat terrorism while claiming that the fighter jets will change the military balance in South Asia and will ultimately be used against India.
In a policy justification, posted on the Federal Register, the US administration rejected this assertion. “The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region,” it argued, adding that the aircraft would improve “Pakistan’s capability to meet current and future security threats”.
The administration also noted that the additional F-16 aircraft would facilitate operations in non-daylight environments and “enhance Pakistan’s ability to conduct counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operations”.
However, Pakistan has conveyed to the United States that it needs the F-16 jets for counter-terrorist operations which would strengthen the country and promote regional stability. |
Decreased generation of cyclic AMP in lymphocytes by beta-adrenergic stimulation in heart failure.
Peripheral blood lymphocytes from 31 normal subjects and 29 patients with heart diseases were stimulated by isoproterenol, and cyclic AMP level in lymphocytes was assayed. Simultaneously plasma norepinephrine concentration at rest was measured. In normal subjects the generation of cyclic AMP after the stimulation decreased with age. The response of lymphocytes in patients of NYHA classes III and IV was significantly smaller than in the normal, age-matched control. Plasma norepinephrine concentration of patients of classes II, III, and IV rose significantly above normal. In congestive heart failure, a significant correlation between plasma norepinephrine concentration and increase of lymphocyte cyclic AMP was demonstrated. From these results it was suggested that beta-adrenergic receptors in congestive heart failure were desensitized. |
Harare, Zimbabwe - Incoming president, Emmerson Mnangagwa is set to chair his first politburo meeting as leader of the ruling ZANU-PF on Thursday following the resignation of President Robert Mugabe on Sunday.
In a welcome speech delivered at the party headquarters late on Wednesday, Mnangagwa promised supporters of the liberation party a break with the past.
In his first public remarks since his return to the country, Mnangagwa said Zimbabwe was entering a new era of democracy. He was dismissed as vice president earlier this month and had to flee the country for his safety due to an internal power struggle to succeed 93-year-old Mugabe.
Mnangagwa returned from South Africa two weeks after a military takeover that saw Mugabe placed under house arrest at his Blue Roof Residence in the capital.
Many supporters expect Mnangagwa's leadership of the decision-making body to set a different policy agenda that will also be reflected in his presidency of the southern African nation.
'Different path'
Bernard Mpalanga, 47, told Al Jazeera, that although Mnangagwa was part of the old guard, he believed the 75-year-old could set the party and the country on a different path.
"He's a no-nonsense man, if he says he's going to do something, he'll do it. I have faith in him," he said.
In his welcome speech, Mnangagwa promised to turn around the struggling economy and called on all Zimbabweans to work together to turn the country around.
"We want to grow our economy; we want jobs, jobs, jobs," he emphasised.
He also stressed the need for regional and international cooperation in order for Zimbabwe to recover from a severe economic crisis as the country faces cash shortages amid rising inflation.
A senior International Monetary Fund official said Zimbabwe faces a difficult economic situation and urged for measures to reduce a deficit fuelled by high government spending and policies detrimental to growth.
"Immediate action is critical to reduce the deficit to a sustainable level, accelerate structural reforms, and re-engage with the international community to access much needed financial support," Gene Leon, IMF's mission chief for Zimbabwe said in a statement issued to Reuters news agency.
Mnangagwa revealed he has been in contact with several regional leaders including the presidents of neighbouring South Africa, Botswana and Namibia as well as former President Jakaya Kikwete of Tanzania.
{articleGUID}
According to Mnangagwa, the relative peace maintained during the military takeover that led to Mugabe's eventual resignation had been commended by the region's leaders.
"[T]hey have hailed the discipline and peacefulness of the people of Zimbabwe. They are saying the way you have managed this process makes SADC proud," he said to loud cheers from the crowd.
Shortly before his return, Mnangagwa paid a courtesy call on South African President Jacob Zuma the current chair of the regional trade bloc, the Southern African Development Community (SADC).
The Former Vice-President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Honourable Mr Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa paid a courtesy call to President Jacob Zuma before heading back to Harare, #Zimbabwe https://t.co/1lo9NSWA8j pic.twitter.com/yHzbi21lx9 — South African Gov (@GovernmentZA) November 22, 2017
Mnangagwa will be sworn in on Friday at a function to be attended by regional dignitaries including Zuma.
In a statement released shortly after the veteran ruler’s resignation on Tuesday, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said the end of Mugabe signalled the possibility for change.
"Zimbabwe has an extraordinary opportunity to set itself on a new path," he said.
Follow Tendai on Twitter @i_amten. |
A remorseful young bank robber in Calgary has been invited to check in with the judge who sentenced him to prison after he serves his time.
"Mr. [Saleem] Nasery, sentencing you was one of the most painful things I've ever had to do," said Court of Queen's Bench Justice David Gates. "You are a man of great promise, great potential.
"When you finish your sentence, I'd like you to come see me, I'd like to know how you're doing."
Last month, Nasery pleaded guilty to robbery with a firearm, forcible confinement and wearing a disguise.
Nasery and three others — all of whom have also pleaded guilty — robbed the BMO in the southwest community of the Mission neighbourhood in November 2014.
Prosecutors Vicki Faulkner and Ryan Jenkins, as well as Nasery's defence lawyer Pat Fagan, made a joint submission for a six-year prison sentence at a hearing last week.
On Tuesday, Gates accepted that submission but with credit for the time Nasery spent under house arrest and in custody, leaving five and a half years left to serve.
Court heard Nasery has been volunteering and received a degree in the time since the robbery.
'Not who I am'
When given the opportunity to address the court last week, Nasery, 24, apologized to his victims — the bank employees who were held hostage.
"That's not who I am," he said. "I'm sorry for ruining their lives."
Officers responded to the Bank of Montreal in 2200 block of Fourth Street S.W. in 2014. (CBC)
Gates asked Nasery's parents — who had been sitting in the gallery — for some background on the family. His father told the judge he'd moved to Canada from Afghanistan in the 1980s.
When the judge learned Nasery's father not only had to redo the schooling he'd already completed in Afghanistan but had recently lost his oil and gas job in the recession and was driving a taxi to make ends meet, he expressed his sympathy.
"It's not an unfamiliar experience of people coming to this country with unrecognized experience," Gates said.
A tearful goodbye
Nasery was taken into custody after lawyers made their submissions last week. Before sheriffs took him to the Calgary Remand Centre, Nasery shared a tearful embrace with his parents, grandmother and little brother.
Kenza Belakziz, 22, who worked at the BMO as a teller, was dating Nasery in November 2014 when she provided confidential information to the three men so they could pull off the heist.
Belakziz had given Nasery a list of employees who would be present during the robbery, the layout of the bank, information about the silent alarm, the locations where money was stored and details on bait bills and dye packs.
Employees were terrorized with a gun and their hands were zip tied together.
Police were able to get set up outside the bank while the robbers were still inside and arrested the three men right away. They had stolen about $12,000 in two bags.
Victims traumatized
Initially, police arrested just the three robbers, believing Belakziz was a victim before they realized it was an inside job. She was arrested a month later.
Three of the bank employees who were held hostage wrote victim impact statements describing how the robbery traumatized them.
Despite his sympathies for Nasery, Gates still acknowledged the impact of the crime on the victims.
"Mr. Nasery you have committed a serious crime that had a significant impact on the employees of the bank you robbed and the community."
Belakziz pleaded guilty at the same time as Nasery but her sentencing hearing has been delayed so the lawyers involved can address Gates' concerns that the proposed sentence of six months in jail was too low.
A sentence of more than six months would put her at a higher risk of being deported to Morocco, where she no longer has family.
The other robbers, Matthew Alexis Valdes and Lucas Wayne Windsor, pleaded guilty in 2015. Valdes received a five-and-a-half-year sentence for his role while Windsor got a five-year, two-month prison term. |
1. Introduction {#sec1-foods-08-00484}
===============
Cross-cultural understating of sensory terminologies is a major need of today's global world where the same products are tested and marketed internationally. The growing demand for standards to describe products on a global scale makes it more important to define and understand sensory terminologies, either in analytical sensory description with trained panelists or with consumers to investigate human perception \[[@B1-foods-08-00484],[@B2-foods-08-00484]\]. Sensory profiling can help to achieve better understanding of products and meet objectives \[[@B3-foods-08-00484]\]. However, cross-cultural sensory studies become complicated when understanding food perceptions. Issues such as language and culture can promote frustration when trying to understand the same products across multiple countries. For descriptive sensory analysis, such problems can be overcome by training and good communication among researchers and panels \[[@B4-foods-08-00484]\]. This may be less easy to do with consumers, who may have high variability in their use of consumer terms, a problem aggravated by differences in language and culture. For effective communication across cultures, particularly when consumers are involved, it is vital to understand how people of different languages and cultures describe the same perception.
Texture is an important multi-parameter sensory property stimulating consumers' attitudes towards foods \[[@B5-foods-08-00484]\]. In some products, texture is more important than flavor \[[@B6-foods-08-00484]\]. It is essential to comprehend the structure of texture vocabulary (terms) from the consumers' point of view, instead of just simply translating them into other languages. Exploring appropriate consumers' texture terms, describing particular texture perceptions of the consumers in daily life, can help to: (a) better design food products to meet specific needs; (b) address consumer texture concerns; (c) avoid misunderstanding that can occur from simple translations; (d) accurately measure sensory meaning of consumer perception; and (e) help promote marketing that directly speaks to consumer needs. Szczesniak and other researchers gave importance to developing texture lexicons and classifying texture terms in various languages \[[@B6-foods-08-00484],[@B7-foods-08-00484]\]. Since those early days of texture studies, translations and comparisons of texture terms among different languages have been an important topic for research. Nevertheless, languages contain many nuances in words, and the topic can quickly become complicated.
Drake \[[@B8-foods-08-00484]\] developed a list of 54 English texture terms and had approximately 50 English proficient collaborators with texture expertise to translate those terms into 22 other languages. The results indicated that some languages use a single word for multiple texture attributes (for example, *katai* in Japanese corresponds to rigid, stiff, hard, firm, or tough in English). Although the English terms were described by distinguishable terms in another language, the author concluded that translations might result in misunderstanding and inconsistencies because English words were presented out of context. The other drawback was the exclusion of consumers, and the use of highly qualified sensory expertise completely differs from consumers in contextual textural perception. For example, one paper \[[@B9-foods-08-00484]\] had an English panel to generate descriptors for chocolate, which were then translated into Norwegian and used by a panel. The panels used attribute "fruity" differently. The authors concluded that the fundamental perceptual dimensions were similar across cultures, but the underlying sensory dimension and vocabulary differed.
The problem in simply translating terms was highlighted in a study comparing English and Finnish texture terms \[[@B2-foods-08-00484]\]. Because terms can have multiple meanings, inconsistency can arise. The researchers provided pre-selected texture terms to consumers, which might have restricted consumers' own vocabularies. In addition, food samples were not provided for textural experience. Several other studies \[[@B10-foods-08-00484],[@B11-foods-08-00484],[@B12-foods-08-00484],[@B13-foods-08-00484],[@B14-foods-08-00484]\] emphasized the differences in the use of textural terms among cultures. The majority of studies either compared existing texture vocabularies or used direct translation of terms into different languages without consideration of specific products or the nuances that exist among languages. However, the general consensus was that the major dimensions of texture vocabulary are consistent across cultures and languages.
Some studies have compared texture vocabularies for specific foods among different languages. French and Vietnamese panels individually generated and defined a set of texture descriptors to profile jellies \[[@B15-foods-08-00484]\]. The lexicons that were developed were then assessed against preselected sensory descriptors, which allowed successful translation and transfer of attributes to panels in their respective countries. Son et al. \[[@B16-foods-08-00484]\] used cooked rice as a model product to develop a lexicon to describe rice texture in four countries, i.e., France, Japan, Korea, and Thailand. Lists of terms were generated by naïve panels, and the authors noted that the wealth of vocabulary for texture and aroma was influenced by culture. The most texture terms were generated by Thai panelists, but all terms were semantically similar when translated into English. Zannoni \[[@B17-foods-08-00484]\] highlighted that while translating texture terms, it is essential to focus mainly on stimuli rather than on words. These results established that direct translation of texture terms isolated from their context could be very problematic. Hence, it can be hypothesized that the consumer understanding of texture is strongly related to the sensory perception experience.
One way to better understand consumer terminology is through focus groups. Focus groups typically involve a roundtable discussion centered on particular issues. The groups must be led by qualified moderators. Focus groups are best suited for clarification of problems, consumer perspectives, attitudes, reactions, motivations, and emotions \[[@B18-foods-08-00484],[@B19-foods-08-00484],[@B20-foods-08-00484]\]. A "laddering" probing style that leads to deeper understanding of the reasons behind participants' responses or comments can be used to provide depth of information \[[@B21-foods-08-00484]\]. The focus group method is a unique method to capture significant sensory information that could be otherwise missed \[[@B22-foods-08-00484],[@B23-foods-08-00484]\]. Focus groups have been used successfully to generate consumer descriptive sensory terms for mung beans \[[@B24-foods-08-00484]\], mayonnaise \[[@B25-foods-08-00484]\], pudding \[[@B26-foods-08-00484]\], and peanut butter \[[@B27-foods-08-00484]\]. Qualitative methodology is a well-practiced technique to explore consumers' knowledge systems, vocabularies, beliefs, and the phraseology that they use to talk about foods.
The overall objective of this study was to determine consumer terminology that corresponds to descriptive sensory terminology for selected characteristics of snack food texture in four languages: English, Mandarin (Chinese), Spanish, and Hindi. Specific objectives of this study were (1) to obtain a consumer meaningful texture vocabulary for key aspects of snack foods, (2) provide positive and negative connotations associated with texture vocabulary, and (3) determine whether simple translations of sensory terms to consumer language would be appropriate. Additional information on the role that snacks play was collected too.
2. Materials and Methods {#sec2-foods-08-00484}
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2.1. Participant Profile {#sec2dot1-foods-08-00484}
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This study was conducted at the Center for Sensory Analysis, Kansas State University, Manhattan, KS, USA. The city is a hub of international communities living, working, and studying at Kansas State University. It also has a substantial population of military family, many with spouses from foreign countries, and immigrants who have settled in the multicultural community. The consumers were recruited via an established database of community participants using an online screener with predetermined quotas. To qualify for the study, all consumers had to eat snacks at least once a week, have no food allergies or dietary restrictions, and could not have an educational background in food/nutrition, dairy, or sensory sciences. Participants for the focus groups in the specific languages (Hindi, Mandarin, and Spanish) had to be a native speaker of the language and had to have been living in the United States (US) of America for less than two years. All non-US participants also had to have a basic understanding of English, but fluency was not required. US consumers had to be native English speakers and have lived in the US more than 10 years. Hindi-speaking consumers were residents of India. Mandarin speaking consumers were residents of China. Spanish-speaking consumers were from Mexico, Costa Rica, Argentina, Ecuador, Colombia, and Uruguay. Female participants were at least 50% or more for each group ([Table 1](#foods-08-00484-t001){ref-type="table"}).
2.2. Products {#sec2dot2-foods-08-00484}
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The list of representative foods served to consumers to establish textural context and to help in determining consumer term options was based on the descriptive sensory analysis results produced by Kumar and Chambers \[[@B1-foods-08-00484]\], who used a trained panel and expert translators to describe textural terms in various languages ([Table 2](#foods-08-00484-t002){ref-type="table"}). The samples used in the study were ready to eat without any preparation and, thus, were served "as is". The samples were served blind (no label information) in 3.25 oz (plastic) or 8 oz (Styrofoam) cups (based on the size and shape of the samples) and covered with a lid. One sample at a time was served to consumers for tasting. Participants cleaned their palates between samples with water. Paper napkins were provided for cleaning of lips and hands.
2.3. Focus Group Methodology {#sec2dot3-foods-08-00484}
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Professionally trained moderators, whose native language was that of the consumer group, led and conducted four focus group discussions. The moderator's guide was prepared in English ([Table 3](#foods-08-00484-t003){ref-type="table"}) and moved from more general to complex, and on to detailed questions. After discussions with industry colleagues, it was translated into three languages by the moderators, who also had excellent skills in English. Whenever a question arose about possible options for translation, other native speakers of that language were consulted. All sessions were conducted in the native language of the representative consumer group, and were video recorded in order to review later. Each focus group session lasted for 90 min. The study was approved by the Committee on Research with Human Subjects at Kansas State University.
Each participant was provided with printed handouts that included the trained descriptive panel texture terms of interest ([Table 3](#foods-08-00484-t003){ref-type="table"}) with definitions in both the native language and English \[[@B1-foods-08-00484]\]. The terms and definitions were provided one at a time, at the time the term was discussed. To provide context, participants were served representative snack foods for each attribute listed in [Table 3](#foods-08-00484-t003){ref-type="table"}. Recent authors have shown that simple changes in the flavor of products where texture is maintained can still show differences in consumer emotional response to the product, clearly indicating the importance of tasting to provide context \[[@B28-foods-08-00484]\].
The participants were asked to read the textural term and definition, followed by tasting of product for textural experience. Then, participants were asked to describe the textural attribute using consumer terms in their native language that they thought were best representative of the attribute, definition, and the experience during tasting. Multiple terms were requested from the participants; the moderator obtained at least three terms before exploring the meanings of those words and discussing them. Once the list was developed, discussion on the meanings of those terms and how they compared were held to begin developing consensus for the one best consumer term, if possible, that was most representative of the descriptive texture term developed by a trained panel. The strategy was to get the most appropriate term that consumers usually use to define these textures in their daily life.
3. Results {#sec3-foods-08-00484}
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3.1. Snacks and Texture {#sec3dot1-foods-08-00484}
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The basic concept of the term "snack food" was the same among participants from all countries: Convenient, something that is small, quick, packaged ready to eat, eaten between meals, and not considered healthy. While enquiring about the terminology's consumer use for snack and snack-like foods, we found that no specific word or term exists for snacks in the Spanish, Mandarin, and Hindi languages. Also, no translation terms exist for "snacks" in these languages. However, consumers used product names and/or some related terms. For example, the Chinese group used terms like *"passing time, tasty food, and potato chips*". Indian consumers used terms such as *nashta* (evening breakfast), *namkeen* (trail mix), *time pass, and alpahar* (small amount of food) for snacks. Out of seven, five Hindi speakers voted for the term "*namkeen"* and two voted for the term "*alpahar"* for snack food in Hindi. The Spanish speakers used a plethora of terms, such as *aperitivo* (side dish), *colación* (a meal that is considerably smaller in calorific content than lunch or dinner), *refrigerio* (snacks, Central America, usually served in meetings/formal gatherings), *picada* (a snack in Argentina consisting of cheeses and usually cured meats), *merienda* (snack), *botana* (a snack usually for parties in Mexico), *piqueo* (snacks, South America), *tapas* (appetizer or snack in Spain), and *bocas* (snack for parties only, Central America). All of the terms used were different and specific to culture, country, occasion, and kind of snack.
There were some differences among groups; for example, the English and Spanish speakers considered snack foods to be something in between meals but not necessarily a meal replacement. In contrast, Hindi and Mandarin speakers suggested that snacks could be used in place of a meal. While defining snack foods, Indian consumers used product names as identifiers, such as potato chips, nuts, and *namkeen* (Hindi name for "trail" mixes), and sensory attributes such as fried, crispy, groundnuts, chocolaty, etc. Snacks have been identified and defined by other researchers based on eating occasion \[[@B29-foods-08-00484],[@B30-foods-08-00484],[@B31-foods-08-00484],[@B32-foods-08-00484],[@B33-foods-08-00484]\], type of food \[[@B34-foods-08-00484]\], amount of food consumed, location of food consumption, or a combination of several of these factors \[[@B31-foods-08-00484],[@B35-foods-08-00484],[@B36-foods-08-00484],[@B37-foods-08-00484]\]. Phan and Chambers \[[@B38-foods-08-00484],[@B39-foods-08-00484]\] had consumers identify snack foods based on morning, afternoon, and late night eating, and then determined the types of snacks consumers ate during each of those occasions. Breakfast cereals, dairy, egg products, and baked products were preferred in the morning. Fruit, nut, and seed snacks were mostly consumed during mid-morning snacking compared to any other occasion. Legumes and legume-based products were for mid-afternoon and late-night snacking. Sweets were mainly consumed as late-night snacks \[[@B39-foods-08-00484]\]. Phan and Chambers \[[@B38-foods-08-00484]\] also reported snacking as indulgent and part of daily meals among US consumers.
Participants related snack food purchase and consumption to liking and their cultural background and previous experiences. Cost, package size, packaging (attractiveness and information), nutrition, calories, labeling, and brand names were mentioned as common factors among groups. The other important aspects that influence snacks purchase were health, fat content, calories, protein content, emotions, family members, and resealability. Similar motivation, such as liking, convenience, energy need, hunger, and health, were reported as primary drivers for snacking among US consumers by Phan and Chambers \[[@B38-foods-08-00484]\]. Only English speakers (US group) mentioned texture as a driving factor for snack purchase. Other consumer groups did not mention texture explicitly. However, the terms used by these groups, such as fried, crispy, and crunchy, were texture terms, but consumers did not associate them with texture or failed to relate these terms as texture properties of snack foods. Hindi and Spanish speakers also talked about flavor (taste) attributes---for example, sweet, spicy, and salty.
We found no specific word or terminology for the term "texture" in Spanish, Mandarin, or Hindi---and no translation terms exist for "texture" in these languages. Consumers used both terms and phrases to define texture, and some of these terms cannot be translated well into English. The three terms provided by Hind speakers were *sanrachna* (structure), *upari parat* (upper layer), and *haath se chuu kar pata lagana* (hand feel). Consumers rarely use these terms because they are complex and uncommon in the culture. The Mandarin Chinese group gave the terms 口感 (mouth feel or how food feels in the mouth) and 触感 (hand feel).
The English speakers from the US were the only group that related sensory perceptions to the term "texture" and explained "texture" explicitly as a terminology. For example, "*a crunchy texture of an apple is an indicator of freshness, whereas mushy apple is stale", "I do not eat crunchy textured foods because it's noisy*", and *"yogurt is too thin to experience, not my jam, rather I like hummus because it is more substantial"*. Hindi, Mandarin, and Spanish speakers had difficulty with "texture" as a translated term and used different methods to describe what "texture" was.
General comments made by Hindi speakers on snack texture were "*ruffle texture, structure of food, rough surface, crispy, and indentions on chips*". They were not able to understand the English term "texture" as a terminology for snacks, and their responses were mainly based on individual experiences. Some direct comments were "*hardness depends on chip, kettle cooked is different from normal chips",* said a 26-year-old women. Indian consumers frequently used product names and associated sensory attributes such as namkeen mixture, bhujia, roasted groundnuts, bhel puri, salty, spicy, crispy, crunchy, sweet etc. Similarly, Chinese speakers frequently used product names to establish textural concepts in terms of specific products. For example, *"peanut candy should be crispy but not hard, and I will be disappointed if it is very hard", "softness of bread, it should not be dry or hard", "creaminess and thickness of yogurt texture", "liquid texture of yogurt stimulates the feeling of low quality"* etc. "*A cracker needs to be crunchy*", said a 32-year-old Spanish speaker. The Spanish-speaking group related textures to snacking occasion. For example, *"what texture I eat depends on the time of the day and the event*" and *"cereal bars for the office consumption"*. A few Spanish speakers noted that texture was a quality, freshness, and purity indicator. For example, "*fruits with certain textures are too perfect, it makes me think if it has something extra"*.
All groups had experienced multi-textured snack foods before, but not all were as adept at describing the textural aspects of such products. For example, Hindi speakers often attributed their prior experience to multi-sensory characteristics, including flavor (i.e., taste and aroma). For example, *"rasagulla (sweet dumpling) liked for sponge feel, sweet taste and rose flavor",* a product *"layered in cookies and ladoos (sweet dish) coated with coconut flakes offers a variety of soft and hard bite experiences",* said a 26-year-old woman. Other examples provided for multi-textured experiences were "*ice cream as soft, apple as crispy, and banana as soft*", suggesting again that the concept of the term "texture" was associated with specific products. Spanish speakers talked about combining different snacks with alcoholic "beer" and non-alcoholic "coffee and tea" beverages. For example, *"flour or grain-based snacks pair well with coffee or tea"* and "*meat snacks go well with alcohol*". The US group shared widespread multi-textured experiences such as *"soft yogurt with crunchy granola"*. Some snacks were preferred for their specific features, such as *"crispy and flaky pretzel stick for their crunch and thick bite experience" and "buffalo pretzels for crispness"*.
3.2. Snacking Occasion, Texture, and Emotions {#sec3dot2-foods-08-00484}
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We found a strong association between snacking occasion, textures, and emotions. The format of association remained consistent across cultures and genders. Consumers want to start their day with a soft-textured snack or food, and as the day progressed, consumers tend to move towards more crispy, hard, and noisy textures. In addition, consumers prefer to eat something healthier or something close to nature, like fruits, particularly in the morning and early in the day. Consumers want to avoid noisy snacks in public places. For example, *"in office, I don't like crispy stuff because it is super loud", "I prefer soft texture like chocolate or fruits like banana. I have issue with apple because it is still noisy to eat",* said a 24-year-old Indian woman. "*Usually I eat fruits in morning, it is culture to eat fruits in morning and savory snack in evening",* said a 26-year-old Indian woman. Similar responses were received from the Chinese- and Spanish-speaking groups.
Consumers associated occasions to snack eating, for example *"sometimes I need sweet in the morning more like fruit or other sweet, and in the afternoon more crunchy or salty*", said a Spanish speaker. A pattern of starting the day with something sweet, soft, less or no crisp or crunch at all was also observed among non-English speakers. The Indian group preferred to eat fruits, milk, puff pastry, croissants, bread, and soft-textured foods, giving the reason as tradition and culture. Some specific comments included *"I eat soft textured food in morning, even if I eat rusk (sweet toast) like food, I dip that in milk or tea to make it soft, little hard during lunch but likes crispy in evening",* said a 26-year-old women. *"I do not like to eat spicy or savory snack in morning, prefer to eat something that gives me a less stomach fill experience",* said 30-year-old man. The majority of Indian consumers eat savory, crispy, crunchy, and hard-textured snacks in the evening or late at night to re-energize themselves. At night, they prefer to eat sweet, semi-liquid snacks like chocolate. A 30-year-old Indian consumer said *"I want to eat something in night where I do not waste energy to chew or eat"*. One or two consumers in each group did not have a texture preference at all. The number of consumers who had "no texture preference at all" was higher in US group than others, but still in the minority.
Consumers mentioned some specific textures that are preferred at certain places. For example, all groups want to avoid eating crispy and crunchy textures in public (like offices) due to noise generation. For example, *"In office, I don't like crispy stuff because it is super loud, I prefer soft texture like chocolate, fruits like banana, have issue with apple too because it is still noisy",* said a 25-year-old Indian woman. A 28-year-old US woman said *"I don't like to eat crumbly, easily breakable, sticky, and oily snacks in the car"*. Chinese consumers also shared similar comments about avoiding eating snacks in public places that makes noise. Spanish consumers prefer to eat creamy textures at home due to spreading process. US consumers usually eat snacks in all places, but mostly prefer to eat only at home. Alike, India consumers mostly eat snacks at home.
We found a strong association of snacking with emotions. When stressed, some consumers prefer to snack, whereas others said they lose their appetite. Consumers, especially women, prefer to eat sweet and soft-textured snacks (like ice creams and cookies) when feeling sad. Specific comments made by the US group were *"if it's a bad day, that's an excuse to get ice cream or cookies", "when frustrated I eat crunchy and loud to get steam out", "if sad, eat ice cream", "If sad or down, I eat ice cream"*, and *"if stressed, I do not eat anything"*. In the comments, "taste" (such as sweet) dominated over texture preference for most emotions, at least among women. For example, a 34-year-old US woman in the English group stated *"my snacking preference in a sad emotional state is more related to taste and flavor than texture. I do not eat savory foods when feeling sad"*.
A contrasting pattern was found for male consumers. Almost all male consumers either eat anything (texture does not matter) or prefer to eat crunchy, savory, and hard-textured snacks when they feel angry, saying it helps to get the anger out, and potentially exhaust themselves. US consumers were found very assertive for their emotions and snacking behavior, whereas Spanish-, Chinese-, and Indian-speaking consumers were more assertive for occasion (different time in a day), places, and snacking behaviors than emotional associations.
3.3. Consumer Texture Terms {#sec3dot3-foods-08-00484}
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[Table 4](#foods-08-00484-t004){ref-type="table"} (English), [Table 5](#foods-08-00484-t005){ref-type="table"} (Hindi), [Table 6](#foods-08-00484-t006){ref-type="table"} (Spanish), and [Table 7](#foods-08-00484-t007){ref-type="table"} (Mandarin) represent all consumers' descriptors used for each texture attribute and final terms ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}) on which each group agreed. We used the closest English meaning of each term to explain results. Original terms in native languages can be found in [Table 4](#foods-08-00484-t004){ref-type="table"}, [Table 5](#foods-08-00484-t005){ref-type="table"}, [Table 6](#foods-08-00484-t006){ref-type="table"} and [Table 7](#foods-08-00484-t007){ref-type="table"}.
Gummy Worms were used as a reference food for "firmness". US consumers described *"force required to bite completely through the food sample with the molar teeth"* as chewiness, toughness, and hardness. The Hindi-speaking group used exactly the same terms, the Chinese group used chewy and toughness, and the Spanish group described firmness as consistency, hardness, and resistance. Only "hardness" was consistent among all four groups. The US and Indian groups described "toughness" as the most suitable descriptor for firmness, based on the (1) tough structure of the Gummy Worms and (2) the force required to bite through the Gummy worms. The Spanish and Chinese groups preferred terms that translated as resistance and chewy as their final descriptors ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). The reason was the high number of chews required to breakdown the food.
Brach's chocolate balls were used as a reference food for "smoothness". The descriptors used by US consumers were sleek, creamy, silky, clean, clear, hard surface, and smoothness. The group explained that the terms might change with product. For example, "*creamy goes for cheese spreads and silky for milk-based drinks*". The Indian group used six terms to describe smoothness, but not all terms could be used in a similar manner. The terms were gluey, slickness, soft feel (कोमल), slippery/smooth (चिकना), soft feel (नरम), and soft touch (मृदु). The terms largely mean smoothness, but terms were specific to certain products. Spanish speakers used flat, smooth (terso), soft, smooth (liso), and homogeneous. There is no term for smoothness (only smooth) in the Spanish language. The Chinese group used roundness and smooth. Only smooth/smoothness was common among cultures. Due to the smooth surface of chocolate balls, all groups felt smooth was the most suitable final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). The final terms may change to other terms if the product is different. For example, Chinese consumers used "smoothness" for hard-textured products and "roundness" for soft-textured products.
Frozen jackfruit was used as a reference product for "moistness". US consumers used wet, slimy, juicy, and tender as descriptors and stated that they use tender for moist meat food and slimy for oyster-like watery foods. Indian consumers used descriptors such as water-like (पानी पानी), water-like (पनियाल), flabby, भेजवाला (no English term), and wet. Spanish speakers used juiciness, watery, and wet. The Chinese group used only two terms, i.e., juicy and moist (wet). The term "wet" was common among the four cultures, and "juicy" was common in three of cultures but not in the Indian group. The term "juicy" in Hindi explicitly reflects fruit or vegetable juice perception. Therefore, Indian consumers used "wet" as a term for moist perception of jackfruit. Whereas, other cultures used "juiciness/juicy" for dripping-moistened jackfruit. The perception of "juiciness" as a fruit juice, not as moist, was the dominant driving force here. Again, the final terms may change if the product is changed.
Sourdough pretzels were used as a reference product for "roughness of surface". US consumers used coarse, abrasive, gritty, and jagged as descriptors, while the Hindi-speaking group used hard, rough/abrasive, and crisp. The Spanish group used six descriptors, i.e., roughness (rugosidad), heterogeneous surface, irregular surface, rough, lijoso (sharp-edged products), and roughness (aspereza). The Chinese group used rugged and roughness, with "rugged" as the final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). The Spanish and US consumers settled with "rough" as the final term. Indian consumers determined that both rough and abrasive were equally good ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). The rough perception was due to the top surface of the pretzels. Both the US and Indian consumers may use other terms for "roughness of surface" if the product is different.
For "adhesive" perception, chewy caramels were used as a reference product. US consumers used descriptors such as sticky, chewy, gummy, and tacky. Indian consumers used sticky (चिपचिपा), sticky (चिपकना), and slippery (चिकना). Spanish consumers used sticky, taffy, and gummy, and Chinese consumers used teeth sticky and viscous. The US consumers commented that "the *product is chewy, and it sticks on teeth because it is chewy*", and chose "chewy" as the final term. The other three cultures used "sticky" (teeth sticky) as final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). "Adhesive" was too technical, as consumers use "adhesive" to describe adhesive glues for pasting things but not as a food sensory descriptor.
US consumers described "cohesiveness" by terms such as chewy, gummy, crumbly, spongy, uniform bite, and "change in shape but stay as whole". There was no agreement on the use of a single term, so no conclusion was reached. Indian consumers used strong, tough, "something that holds together" (न टूटने वाला), "remains together" (जुड़ा हुआ), "something that does not break", and "something that does not scatter". They agreed to use the phrase "something that does not scatter" as the final term. Spanish consumers used terms such as elasticity, softness, consistency, firmness, and brittle; the final term was "elasticity" ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). The Chinese used only one term, "tenacity" (something that does not break or recover in shape, like sponge). Cohesiveness is a complex term that encompasses multiple aspects.
The US consumers described "crunchiness" as crunchy and crackly. Spanish consumers used crunchiness (crujencia) and crunchiness (crocancia), with "crunchiness" (crocancia) as the final term. Similarly, Indian consumers also used crispy as the final term. Hindi speakers used only one Hindi term to describe both crispy and crunchy, i.e., कुरकुरा (Kurkura, it does not translate well into English). Chinese consumers used descriptors crispy and crunchy, with "crispy" as the final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}).
Lay's classic potato chips were used as a reference product for "uniformity of bite". The US consumers used descriptors such as consistency of texture, hardness, brittle, one bite, disintegrate, smooth, and consistency (of bite); the final consensus term was "consistency of bite" ([Table 4](#foods-08-00484-t004){ref-type="table"}). Indian consumers used light, easy to break (bite), uniformity of bite, and easy to bite; the final term chosen was "easy to bite", although this may not be exactly the same concept. Spanish consumers used descriptors like homogeneity of bite, uniformity, consistency of bite, and resistance of bite; the final terms agreed was "homogeneity of bite". Chinese consumer used a single term, "even texture", to describe "uniformity of bite". The consumers associated the perception as "the way a product breaks inside mouth", which was described as "evenness of bite".
Oiliness was measured on Lay's classic potato chips. Both "oily" and "greasy" were used as the final terms ([Table 4](#foods-08-00484-t004){ref-type="table"}). The Indian group provided the additional term "fried" for oiliness, but it is generally used as an identifier for fried foods. The moderators enquired to know if consumers perceive oily, greasy, and waxy as the same or different. Spanish consumers used waxy and greasy interchangeably, observing only a small difference that they could not explain. O'Mahony and Alba \[[@B40-foods-08-00484]\] found inconsistencies among Spanish and English speakers in their choice of descriptive terms for sour/acid or bitter foods. "Oiliness (aceitoso) is more related to the surface properties, and more appropriate for snacks", explained Indian and US consumers. The consumers understand oily, waxy, and greasy as different, and provided examples to back their opinions: "*Waxy is like a coat to cover a product or coating on skin, and waxy is thick and hard, waxy does not drip, and does not leave any residue on fingers"*. Examples mentioned were *"fruit covered with wax (apple skin), "Laffy Taffy" (a brand of thick hard chewy candy), layer of cheese, and solid state of butter is waxy like pastry dressing"*. *"Greasy is liquid, might drip, and leaves residue on fingers". "Greasy is like ghee (milk fat), molten state which sticks in mouth, has an after taste, and stays in mouth even after swallowing"*. Examples were *"greasy hot cheese dripping on pizza that comes up on a napkin",* and *"Suji ka Halwa"* (sweet dish made from semolina and *ghee*). Oily was defined as a thin layer of oil observed on the surface of foods. Overall, the consumer experience of greasy, oily, and waxy was mainly of visual and tactile perception.
Yoplait strawberry yogurt was used as a reference product for "astringency" perception. Terminologies used by US consumers were dry, tabasco, chaps your lips, bitter, sour, salty, spicy, thirsty, and thick. Taste attribute sensations dominated the perception, which may be common with astringency perception of yogurt. Astringency is referred to in the sensory literature both as a part of flavor (trigeminal sensation) and as a texture. Indian consumers used dryness, and Chinese consumers used dry and numbing as descriptors. The Spanish group used astringency as the final term, and the additional terms were roughness and dryness. None of the consumers felt astringency (drying/puckering) in the sample food, whereas a trained descriptive panel found very high intensity of astringency in Yoplait strawberry yogurt \[[@B1-foods-08-00484]\]. The possible reason could be that the untrained profile of consumers failed to identify the astringency sensation.
For "chew count", all four cultures used chewy (high number of chews required to breakdown food) as the final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). Other terminologies, for example: US consumers used gummy; Spanish consumers used chew-ability; and Indian consumers used "ease of swallowing". As for Indian consumers, "if something is chewy that it is not easy to swallow".
US consumers described "residuals in mouth" as gritty and grainy, and Chinese consumers used residuals (indicated the need to drink water to clear teeth). Spanish consumers' use of terms was based on the lingering sensation, i.e., flavor in the mouth, sensation in the mouth, and residuals in the mouth. Similarly, Indian consumers also used phrases such as "left over in mouth" and "stuck in between teeth". The US consumers concentrated on the nature of the food, i.e., "gritty", and other cultures selected "leftover in mouth" as the final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}).
The Spanish consumers described the term "powdery" as "dusty", but other cultures used "powdery" as the final term ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}). Multiple terminologies were provided by each group of language speakers, with US consumers using chalky and dry; Indians using flour-like; and Spanish using sandy, grainy, floury, dusty (Polvoso), and dusty (Polvoroso). Although powdery is an English term, all four cultures understood it fairly well.
Consumers found it difficult to relate to "dissolvability" as a term for food texture sensory perception. The US consumers used terms such as disintegrate, airy, melt, and dissolve; Indian consumers used melt and dissolve; Spanish consumers used solubility (melt) and dissolvability; and Chinese consumers used a single term, "dissolve", as the descriptor. All others groups preferred to use "melt" as a generic texture term for "dissolvability".
Heat burn was noted by consumers to be more of a taste sensation rather than texture. The terms used by US consumers were spicy, hot, real hot, hot-hot (for Spanish foods), flaming, lips burning, chili powder, and chili pepper. Indian consumers used peppery hot, spicy, and peppery tang; Spanish consumers used spicy (picante), spicy (picosidad), and spicy (enchiloso); Chinese consumers used burning, spicy, and pungent. The terms spicy (picante) (used by both Spanish and US consumers), peppery hot (Indian consumers) and burning (Chinese consumers) were used as the final terms ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}).
A crunchy granola bar was used as a reference product for "particle amount". The terms generated were crumbly, grainy, and gritty (by US consumers); crisp, gritty, and crumbly (by Indian consumers); grainy (by Spanish consumers); and granular and crisp (by Chinese consumers). The final terms were grainy (by both Spanish- and English-speaking consumers), crumbly (by Indian consumers), and granular (by Chinese consumers) ([Table 8](#foods-08-00484-t008){ref-type="table"}).
4. Discussion {#sec4-foods-08-00484}
=============
Consumers related texture with quality, freshness, taste, ease of handling, and good experience. Consumers had certain texture benchmark expectations for each snack food, which must be met for acceptance of that particular snack food. The consumer benchmark expectations were completely based on experiences from previous consumption of those snack foods. For example, a benchmark for chips (crisps) is that there must be a certain level of crispness without the chip being either limp or too hard, and the chip must shatter without being powdery or breaking into pieces with sharp edges. Consumers had positive and negative connotations with textures. Consumers considered snacks that are too hard, too floury (starchy), too gummy, or oily as negative textures that discourage them from eating or handling snacks. However, airy and crunchy (indicator of freshness, good quality) are positive textures. For example, *"good texture also tells us about the ingredients used in snack manufacturing, for example, the creaminess of an ice cream"*.
English speakers (US) used more vocabulary to define their understanding of snacks without naming food products. The non-English speakers used food product names to explain their concepts of snacks. The understating of snacks for non-English speakers was mainly context-based. For example, "*potato chips, nuts, namkeen, crackers, candies"* etc. Therefore, sensory studies of non-English speaking cultures conducted on direct English translation without any contextual backing might be misleading. Some authors \[[@B13-foods-08-00484],[@B15-foods-08-00484],[@B16-foods-08-00484],[@B17-foods-08-00484],[@B40-foods-08-00484],[@B41-foods-08-00484]\] emphasized (a) the importance of context in identifying consumers' sensory descriptors, and (b) that translation of sensory descriptors among different languages are always not useful. Vlontzos et al. \[[@B42-foods-08-00484]\] used a technique where a questionnaire was developed, translated into two languages, pre-tested in each language representing Eastern and Western European countries, and finally translated into the seven languages used in the test. In contrast, other researchers \[[@B43-foods-08-00484],[@B44-foods-08-00484],[@B45-foods-08-00484],[@B46-foods-08-00484]\] have used translation and back translation to the original language to confirm that the meaning was maintained.
Spanish, Hindi, and Mandarin do not have a specific term or terms for "snack" or "snack foods". These languages do not have a direct translation similar to snack or snack foods, although there are context-specific words driven by time of day or eating occasions. The specific sensory terms provided by consumers were different, and the majority of consumers do not use these terms in daily life. However, Chinese and Indian consumers had one commonality in explaining texture that is something perceived by *"handfeel"*. This assertion confirms the basic definition of sensory perception by one of the five senses.
We found that only English speakers explicitly mentioned texture as a factor they consider while making a snack food purchase. Speakers from other languages used terms that represented particular textures of specific foods, such as "crispy apple, crunchy chips" etc. Languages such as Hindi and Mandarin do not have consumer-relevant terms for the overall concept of "texture". No term, not even translation, for words like "texture" exist in Spanish, Hindi, or Mandarin. The use of the English term "texture" for Indian, Chinese, and Spanish consumers is meaningless. Conceptual differences across cultures resulted in consumers responding somewhat differently. The non-English language groups' understanding of texture was based on their previous experiences and memories of certain foods, which they often used to support their comments \[[@B47-foods-08-00484]\]. The consumer experiences and memories of certain food textures can be termed as "contextual experience", which is one tool to overcome language and understanding barriers in non-English speaking cultures. One paper reported on a technique similar to what we used with determination of attributes by trained panelists, translation, and back translation by experts, and then using representative products and the lexicon to produce a multi-lingual questionnaire for use in various countries \[[@B48-foods-08-00484]\].
These findings may be applicable to online surveys where sensory questions are presented without contextual references. Eertmans et al. \[[@B49-foods-08-00484]\] reported the lack of completeness of food choice questionnaire models (FCQ) and their generalizability to a wide range of countries. The authors suggested that the meaning and connotation of the items may be strongly affected by culture. Steptoe et al. \[[@B50-foods-08-00484]\] emphasized the need to relook and revise questionnaires investigating the perception of consumers from different cultures to include items related to the main factors of their food choices.
All groups had experienced multi-textured snacks before, and everyone in these groups indicated that they enjoyed such snacks. Consumers across cultures preferred to mix foods for balancing texture, flavor, and taste.
A clear association was observed for snacking occasions with specific textures. Mostly, consumers prefer to eat snacks "at home while watching movies, lying down, resting, convenience, relaxing, passing time, studying, when they see snacks at home that they like, do not want to share with others, and do not want to look bad in office". Phan and Chambers \[[@B39-foods-08-00484]\] also reported snacking as to be a more personal event. All of the activities mentioned above are convenient and energy-charging snacking. A US woman consumer mentioned a special category, "fuel texture", which helps "to gain energy from foods like pretzels or jellybeans, but not heavy or thick-textured foods". Other authors also defined snacks as energy-dense food \[[@B51-foods-08-00484]\], and consumers reported to eat snacks to fulfill energy needs \[[@B38-foods-08-00484]\].
The majority of consumers start their day with soft-textured and sweet-tasting snacks. Indian consumers indicated "culture" as the primary reason to eat soft-textured, less savory, and natural foods early in the day. US consumers eat soft, less crunchy, and less savory snacks for soothing experiences. As the day progresses, consumers tend to move towards crunchy textures and savory flavors or indulgent snacks (ice cream for the end of the day when stressed). This is similar to other findings \[[@B38-foods-08-00484],[@B39-foods-08-00484]\]. Some emotions were related to snack food textures, although this would need to be confirmed by larger studies. When sad, for example, women prefer to eat soft-textured and sweet-tasting snacks, whereas men tend to eat savory and crunchy snacks when they are angry. Some men commented that taking a snack break when stressed would help to release stress and gain focus.
Results showed wide-ranging perceptions, understandings, preferences, and liking of several textures across cultures. The non-English speakers frequently used taste and aroma descriptors to describe snacks, and texture was seldom mentioned, although their descriptions of food they eat as snacks clearly showed variation in texture. In addition, its relevance was demonstrated by presenting consumers with food samples. Texture has been found to be a strong driver of food liking and aversion, along with flavor \[[@B52-foods-08-00484]\]. Our texture theme discussion results suggest that consumers (individuals) bring to each food a certain texture expectation. If that expectation is met, then there is less focus on texture. If the expectation is not met, then food is rejected. Our findings on consumer texture expectation of foods are in agreement with Engelen and de Wijk \[[@B53-foods-08-00484]\]. This expectation of certain texture varies by individual. The variation could be due to a function of consumer prior expectations and experiences for specific foods.
We conclude from these focus groups that the consumers we tested with native languages other than English seem to be less aware of terms similar to those used in English for food texture than English-speaking consumers. In addition, direct translation of texture terms from English into other languages could lead to misleading identifications, if not backed by specific foods for textural contexts. The vocabulary used by non-English consumers to describe sensory perceptions was different among cultures, and was product-specific. Yoshikawa et al. \[[@B54-foods-08-00484]\] reported that Japanese consumers were more sensitive to subtle variations in texture and had a much richer texture vocabulary than American consumers. Similar, differences in how consumers in different cultures describe sensory attributes have been reported by numerous authors \[[@B4-foods-08-00484],[@B17-foods-08-00484],[@B40-foods-08-00484],[@B55-foods-08-00484]\].
Although some similarities exist with consumers, no specific consistency was observed in understanding and usage of texture terms among cultures. Hindi speakers used the term *kurkure* to describe both crispy and crunchy experiences, but the term has no direct English translation. Consumers used multiple terms to describe single sensory perception and vice versa. Spanish and Mandarin speakers used grainy and granular to describe roughness of surface, particle amount, and powdery. Similarly, the French term *doux*, which means smoothness and sweetness, has no direct translation into English or Spanish \[[@B56-foods-08-00484]\]. Consumers found English terms as too technical and confusing, and the direct translations were not always commonly used in a food context. The use of definitions helped consumers in understanding the attributes, but this creates a problem when marketing specific texture concepts to consumers. When marketing to consumers, it is important that the consumer can understand the term. For words where the meaning is not completely obvious, the use of context or other marketing tactics must clearly demonstrate the meaning of the term. Consumers demonstrated similarities in some texture terms, but their conceptual meanings were completely different. For example, the speakers of Hindi and English described "oily" as a surface property of snacks, whereas Spanish speakers used both oily and greasy interchangeably. Spanish speakers related greasy to animal-based products like meat, and measured it as whole (overall).
The results show the necessity to focus primarily on stimuli rather than words when dealing with consumers. For example, English speakers used juiciness to describe moistness of jackfruit but stated that the term might be different if the product was different. A similar trend was noticed for smoothness, roughness of surface, and cohesiveness among English speakers. The different conceptual understating for texture terms was present in all four cultures. The direct translation of texture terms isolated from any context could be problematic with consumers \[[@B17-foods-08-00484]\]. The selection of the context product should be carefully considered for the development of sensory vocabularies with consumers \[[@B16-foods-08-00484]\].
We conclude that researchers must avoid direct translation of English words, as they are presented out of context and could potentially lead to misunderstanding, inconsistencies, and confusion. It may not be feasible to develop a comprehensive and complete polyglot list of texture terms across cultures. However, after careful investigation, a limited and common contextual texture vocabulary is possible across languages.
Limitations
-----------
The study results are based on the inputs of a small number of specifically recruited participants, and caution must be considered in generalizing the findings to a larger population. However, it may be completely logical to infer from the theme of this study that consumer vocabulary differs greatly from sensory scientist vocabulary. A simple translation of sensory terms in consumer studies does not reflect true responses. The consumer vocabulary generated in this study can only be used for textural context, not for flavor, aroma, or appearance.
5. Conclusions {#sec5-foods-08-00484}
==============
The accelerated pace of globalization has increased the application of cross-cultural sensory and consumer research \[[@B57-foods-08-00484]\]. The rapid growth of the internet will continue to foster new opportunities from multiple countries at a much faster, easier, and cheaper rate \[[@B58-foods-08-00484]\]. Cross-cultural study models based on the assumption of conceptual and linguistic equivalence are problematic. The validity of such models should be tested thoroughly before application. Researchers should avoid imposing constructs and models developed in one culture to other cultures.
Consumers used numerous terms to describe the textural properties of various snack food products. Sometimes, the terms were quite consistent across cultures, suggesting an underlying understanding of the concept. Sometimes, the use of terms was mainly contextual-based, i.e., food or snacks versus other products (e.g., the term for "hardness/firmness" in Chinese depends on whether the person is talking about hardness of steel or hardness of foods), and certain terms were product-specific, as noted. Texture terms developed by trained descriptive panels are easy to translate at a scientific level to produce consistent information across panels, but much too technical for use to describe the products to consumers. We found divergent understanding and usage of English terms in each culture. When conducting consumer studies or communicating benefits of products to consumers, it is essential to pre-test the terminology to ensure that the meaning is conveyed appropriately.
Our results conclude that simple translation of sensory terms without context may be problematic in consumer studies. We provide a method where linguistic differences could be minimized, if backed by contextual perception of sensory terms. The direct translation of descriptors from one language to another does not mean that they are intercepted as conveying the same meaning in both languages. The vocabulary used by consumers to describe sensory characteristics depends on context, culture, and previous exposure to different products. Some of the terminologies are specific to products and may change when the product characteristics or product itself change. Hence, it is important to investigate the cultural mindset, and its implications on food testing.
The authors are indebted to Martin Talavera and Huizi Yu, who moderated the focus groups in Spanish and Mandarin Chinese and provided detailed reports in English with translations from the native language.
Both authors contributed to all parts of the project, including conceptualization, methodology, formal analysis, investigation, resources, data curation, and writing and editing the paper.
This research was supported, in part, by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Hatch under accession number 1016242.
The authors declare no conflicts of interest.
foods-08-00484-t001_Table 1
######
Participants' demographic details.
By Age English Hindi Mandarin Spanish
--------------- --------- ------- ---------- ---------
18--24 2 3 4 1
25--34 4 4 4 5
35--44 1 1 1 4
45--54 1
Total 8 8 9 10
**By Gender**
Female 6 5 7 5
Male 2 3 2 5
foods-08-00484-t002_Table 2
######
List of food samples served to consumers for each texture attribute.
Sample No. Descriptive Attribute Products Manufacturer
------------ ----------------------- -------------------------------------- ------------------------
1 Firmness Gummy Worms Ferrara Candy Company
2 Smoothness Brach's chocolate balls Ferrara Candy Company
3 Moistness Frozen jack fruit Flying Horse
4 Roughness of surface Sourdough Hard Pretzels SL Snacks National LLC
5 Adhesive Werther's Original chewy caramels August Storck
6 Cohesiveness Sourdough Hard Pretzels SL Snacks National LLC
7 Crispiness Cheetos Crunchy Frito-Lay
8 Uniformity of bite Lay's Classic Potato Chips Frito-Lay
9 Astringency Yoplait original yogurt General Mills/Sodiaal
10 Oiliness/Oily Lay's Classic Potato Chips Frito-Lay
11 Chew count Werther's Original chewy caramels August Storck
12 Residuals in mouth Sourdough Hard Pretzels SL Snacks National LLC
13 Powdery Mochi roll Yuki & Love
14 Dissolvability Jet Puff Original Marshmallows Kraft foods
15 Heat burn Seaweed chips Annie Chun's
16 Particle amount Nature Valley---crunchy granola bars General Mills
foods-08-00484-t003_Table 3
######
Abbreviated interview guide with introduction and themes covered by the moderator in the focus group discussion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section Interview Guide for Focus Group Sessions
----------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Introduction Welcome note, guidelines, and purpose\
Participants introduce themselves
Opening question How often do you eat snacks in a week?
General question When you think of snacks, what is the first thing that comes to your mind?\
What are some of the brands that come to your mind about snacks?\
What are the things you look for in snack foods to make a purchase?\
What features make a snack food special from your point of view?
Texture theme What do you understand by "texture" of snack food?\
How important is texture for you?\
What other textures you have experienced so far?\
What terms do you usually use for snacks or snack-like foods? (This question was asked to Hindi-, Mandarin-, and Spanish-speaking consumers)\
What terms do you usually use for texture of snacks or snack like foods? (This question was asked to Hindi-, Mandarin-, and Spanish-speaking consumers)\
Do snacking occasions impact the textures you want? If yes, how?\
Are oily, waxy, and greasy the same or different in your understanding? (This question was asked to Hindi-, English-, and Spanish-speaking consumers only---it was untranslatable in Mandarin)
Texture attributes What are words you use to describe these texture terms?\
***(1) Firmness:*** *The force required to bite completely through the food sample with the molar teeth.*\
***(2) Smoothness:** Degree to which the sample feels smooth and free of lumps/particulates as opposed to lumpy, rough, grainy, gritty, and/or sandy.*\
***(3) Moistness:** The perceived amount of moisture in the product.*\
***(4) Roughness of surface:** The amount of indentations/bumps and surface abrasions which can be perceived by gently manipulating one piece between the thumb & fingers, lips, palate, and/or tongue.*\
***(5) Adhesive:** The degree to which the product sticks to the hands or mouth.*\
***(6) Cohesiveness:** The degree to which the sample deforms prior to breaking apart when compressed once between the molar teeth.*\
***(7) Crispiness:** The intensity of audible sound when the sample is compressed between the molar teeth.*\
***(8) Uniformity of bite:** Degree to which the product changes from start to finish in the bite. If the force necessary to bite through the sample changes during the bite, the product is non-uniform. The more consistent the force, the more uniform.*\
***(9) Astringency:** Drying sensation on the surface and/or edges of the lips, tongue, and mouth.*\
***(10) Oiliness:** The appearance of a fat or oily coating on the surface of the product.*\
***(11) Chew count:** Number of chews required to hydrate sample and bring to a state ready to swallow.*\
***(12) Residuals in mouth:** Sample remaining in or on surfaces of the mouth after swallowing.*\
***(13) Powdery:** A measure of the dry, powdery sensation in hand or mouth.*\
***(14) Dissolvability:** Rate and degree to which product dissolves in the mouth during mastication.*\
***(15) Heat burn:** Burning sensation on the lips, in the oral cavity, and in the throat, resulting from exposure to a substance such as capsaicin or hot peppers. The sensation tends to persist after the stimulus is removed.*\
***(16) Particle amount:** The perception of small particles relatively bigger than surrounding product.*
Closure When and where do you often eat your snack food?
Additional groups questions **Only to English-speaking American consumers**\
Do you think emotions have anything to do with snack eating?\
How would you design a snack food if provided an opportunity?\
**Only to Hindi-speaking Indian consumers**\
People who eat snacks at home. Why do you eat snacks at home?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
foods-08-00484-t004_Table 4
######
Consumer texture terms provided by the English-speaking group (US).
Descriptive Attributes Consumer Terms Final Consumer Terms
--------------------------------------- ------------------------ ----------------------
Firmness Chewiness Toughness
Toughness
Hardness
Smoothness Sleek Smooth \*
Creamy
Silky
Clean
Clear
Hard Surface
Moistness Wet Juicy \*
Slimy
Juicy
Tender
Roughness of surface Coarse Rough \*
Abrasive
Gritty
Jagged
Adhesive Sticky Chewy
Chewy
Gummy
Tacky
Cohesiveness Chewy Gummy/Spongy \*\*
Gummy
Crumbly
Spongy
Uniform when biting down
Change in shape but stay as whole
Crispiness Crunchy Crunchy
Crackly
Uniformity of bite Consistency of texture Consistent
Hardness
Brittle
One bite
Disintegrate
Smooth
Consistent bite or consistency
Oiliness Oily Oily
Astringency Dry Dry
Tabasco
Chaps your lips
Bitter
Sour
Salty
Spicy
Thirsty
Thick
Chew count Chewy Chewy
Gummy
Residuals in mouth Gritty Gritty
Chewy (if it stuck in teeth)
Grainy
Powdery Chalky Powdery
Dry
Powdery
Dissolvability Disintegrate Melts
Airy
Melts
Dissolves
Heat burn ^1^ Spicy Spicy
Hot
Real hot
Hot-hot (for Spanish foods)
Flaming (for cheetos)
Lips burning
Chili powder (chili sounds like cold)
Chili pepper (chili sounds like cold)
Particle Amount Crumbly Grainy
Grainy
Gritty
^1^ Heat/burn technically is a trigeminal sensation part of flavor, separate from texture. However, it is included here because people often refer to it as part of texture because of its seemingly physical effect in the mouth. \* Closest term for the product tasted but no single term because it depends on the product. \*\* Equal number of consumers voted for these terms.
foods-08-00484-t005_Table 5
######
Consumer texture terms provided by the Hindi-speaking group (India).
Attributes Consumer Terms English Translation Consensus Consumer Terms
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------
Firmness सख्त (Sakkt) Toughness सख्त (Sakkt)
कड़क (Kadak) Hard
ज़्यादा ज़ोर लगाने वाला (Zyada jor lagane wala) Something that requires more power to bite
ज़्यादा चबाने वाला (Zyada chaabane wala) More number of bites to eat
Smoothness लिस्सापन (Lissapan) Gluey
चिकनापन (Chiknapan) Smoothness/slickness
मृदु (Mradu) Soft touch (closet meaning)
कोमल (Komal) Soft feel
चिकना (Chikna) Smooth/slippery चिकना (Chikna)
नरम (Naram) Soft feel
Moistness पानी पानी (Pani-Pani) Water-like
पिलपिला (Pilpila) Flabby
भेजवाला (Bhejwala) No English term
पनियाल (Paniyaal) Water-like
गीला (Geela) Wet गीला (Geela)
Roughness of surface कड़क (Kadak) Hard
खुरदरा (Khurdara) Rough/abrasive खुरदरा (Khurdara)
कुरकरा (Kurkara) Crisp
Adhesive चिपचिपा (Chipchipa) Sticky चिपचिपा (Chipchipa)
चिपकना (Chipakna) Stickiness
चिकना (Chikna) Smooth
Cohesiveness मज़बूती (Majbuti) Strong
कडा (Kadaa) Tough
पकड़ के रहने वाला (Pakad ke rehne wala) Something that holds together
न टूटने वाला (Na tutane wala) Something that does not break
न बिखरने वाला (Na bikharne wala) Something that does not scatter न बिखरने वाला (Na bikharne wala)
जुड़ा हुआ (Juda hua) Remains together
Crispiness कुरकुरा (Kurkura) Crispy कुरकुरा (Kurkura)
Uniformity of bite हल्का (Halka) Light
तोड़ने में आसान (Todne me assan) Easy to break/bite
टूटने की समानता (Tutane ki samanta) Uniformity of bite
चबाना आसान है (Chabana assan hai) Easy to bite चबाना आसान है (Chabana assan hai)
Oiliness तेल बहुत ज्यादा है (Tael bahut jyada hai) High amount of oil
तला हुआ (Tlaa) hua Fried
चिकनाई (Chiknaye) Oily चिकनाई (Chiknaye)
Astringency सूखापन (Sukhapan) Dryness सूखापन (Sukhapan)
Chew count बहुत चबाना पड़ता है (Bahut chabana padtha hai) Something that requires a higher number of chews to eat बहुत चबाना पड़ता है (Bahut chabana padtha hai)
Residuals in mouth दांतो के बीच में रह जाना (Danto ke beech me reh jana) Stuck in between teeth
मुँह में रह जाता है (Muh me reh jata hai) Leftover in mouth मुँह में रह जाता है (Muh me reh jata hai)
Powdery पाउडर जैसा (Powder jaisa) Powder-like पाउडर जैसा (Powder jaisa)
आटे जैसा (Aatte jaisa) Flour-like आटे जैसा (Aatte jaisa)
Dissolvability पिघलना (Peghalna) Melts पिघलना (Peghalna)
घुलना (Ghulna) Dissolves घुलना (Ghulna)
Heat burn ^1^ ती्खा (Tekha) Peppery hot ती्खा (Tekha)
मिर्ची वाला/मिर्ची लगी (Mirchi wala/Mirchi lagi) Spicy
तेज़ (Tej) Peppery tang
Particle amount मुरमुरा (Murmura) Crisps
किरकिरा (Kirkira) Gritty
भुरभुरा (Bhurbhura) Crumbly भुरभुरा (Bhurbhura)
^1^ Heat/burn technically is a trigeminal sensation part of flavor, separate from texture. However, it is included here because people often refer to it as part of texture because of its seemingly physical effect in the mouth.
foods-08-00484-t006_Table 6
######
Consumer texture terms provided by the Spanish-speaking group.
Attributes Consumer Terms English Translation Consensus Consumer Term
---------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- ------------------------------------
Firmness Consistencia Consistency Resistencia
Dureza Hardness
Resistencia Resistance
Smoothness Plano Flat Liso *(Smooth)*
Terso Smooth
Suave Soft
Liso Smooth
Homogéneo Homogeneous
Moistness Jugosidad Juiciness Jugosidad
Aguado Watery
Mojado Wet
Roughness of surface Rugosidad Roughness Aspereza
Superficie heterogénea Heterogeneous surface
Superficie Irregular Irregular surface
Rasposo Rough
Lijoso Pieces with sharp edges (for example, rough surface of a nail filer)
Aspereza Roughness
Adhesive Pegajoso Sticky Pegajoso
Chicloso Taffy
Gomoso Gummy
Cohesiveness Elasticidad Elasticity Elasticidad
Suavidad Softness
Consistencia Consistency
Firmeza Firmness
Quebradizo Brittle
Crispiness Crujencia Crunchiness Crujencia
Crocancia Crunchiness
Uniformity of bite Homogeneidad de la mordida Homogeneity of bite Homogeneidad de la mordida
Uniformidad Uniformity
Consistencia de la mordida Consistency of bite
Resistencia de la mordida Resistance of bite
Astringency Aspereza Roughness Astringencia
Sensación de sequedad Dryness sensation
Astringencia Astringency
Oiliness Aceitoso/grasoso Oily/greasy Aceitoso/grasoso
Chew count Masticabilidad Chew ability Número de masticadas
Número de masticadas Number of chews
Residuals in mouth Sabor de boca Flavor in mouth Residuo en boca
Sensación de boca Sensation in mouth
Residuo en boca Residual in mouth
Powdery Arenoso Sandy Polvoroso
Granuloso Grainy
Harinoso Floury
Polvoso Dusty
Polvoroso Dusty
Dissolvability Solubilidad Solubility/solvability (melts) Solubility/solvability Solubilidad
Disolubilidad Dissolvability
Heat burn ^1^ Picante Spicy Picante
Picosidad Spicy (Mexican)
Enchiloso Spicy (Mexican)
Particle amount Granuloso Grainy Granuloso
^1^ Heat/burn technically is a trigeminal sensation part of flavor, separate from texture. However, it is included here because people often refer to it as part of texture because of its seemingly physical effect in the mouth.
foods-08-00484-t007_Table 7
######
Consumer texture terms provided by the Mandarin-speaking group (Chinese).
Attributes Consumer Terms English Meaning of Consumer Terms Consensus Consumer Term
---------------------- -------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------
Firmness 有嚼劲 Chewy 有嚼劲
韧性 Toughness
Smoothness 圆润度 Roundness 圆润度
圆滑 Smooth 圆滑感
顺滑 Smooth
Moistness 多汁 Juicy 多汁
水润 Moist
Roughness of surface 凹凸不平 Rugged 凹凸不平
磨砂 Roughness
Adhesive 黏牙 Teeth sticky 黏牙
粘稠 Viscous
Cohesiveness 韧性 Tenacity (something that does not break or recover in shape, like sponge) 韧性
Crispiness 脆性 Crispy 脆性
嘎嘣 Crunchy
Uniformity of bite 口感均匀 Even texture 口感均匀
均匀的 Evenly
Astringency 发涩 Dry 发涩
麻 Numbing
Oiliness 油腻 Greasy 油腻
油乎乎的 Oily
冒油 Oily
Chew count 嚼劲 Chewy 嚼劲
下咽度 Easy of swallowing
Residuals in mouth 渣 Residual 渣
Powdery 面 Powdery 面
绵 Powdery
面面的 Powdery
Dissolvability 入口即化 Dissolve directly when put in mouth 入口即化
Heat burn ^1^ 烧灼 Burning 烧灼
辣 Spicy
冲 Pungent
Particle amount 碎 Granular 碎
酥 Crisp
^1^ Heat/burn technically is a trigeminal sensation part of flavor, separate from texture. However, it is included here because people often refer to it as part of texture because of its seemingly physical effect in the mouth.
foods-08-00484-t008_Table 8
######
Final consumer texture terms provided by each different language consumer.
Attributes English-Speaking Group Spanish-Speaking Group Hindi-Speaking Group Mandarin-Speaking Group
---------------------- ------------------------ ----------------------------- --------------------------------- ---------------------------
Firmness Toughness Resistance Toughness Chewy
Smoothness Smooth \* Smooth Smooth Roundness/smoothness \*\*
Moistness Juicy \* Juiciness Wet Juicy
Roughness of surface Rough \* Roughness Rough/abrasive \*\* Rugged
Adhesive Chewy Sticky Sticky Teeth sticky
Cohesiveness Gummy/Spongy \*\* Elasticity Something that does not scatter Tenacity
Crispiness Crunchy Crunchiness Crispy Crispy
Uniformity of bite Consistent Homogeneity of bite Easy to bite Even texture
Astringency Dry Astringency Dryness Dry
Oiliness Oily Oily/greasy \*\* oily Greasy
Chew count Chewy Number of chews Numbers of chews Chewy
Residuals in mouth Gritty Residual in mouth Leftover in mouth Residual
Powdery Powdery Dusty Powder/flour-like \*\* Powdery
Dissolvability Melts Solubility/solvability \*\* Melts Dissolve
Heat burn ^1^ Spicy Spicy Peppery hot Burning
Particle amount Grainy Grainy Crumbly Granular
^1^ Heat/burn technically is a trigeminal sensation part of flavor, separate from texture. However, it is included here because people often refer to it as part of texture because of its seemingly physical effect in the mouth. \* Closest term for the product tasted but no single terms because it depends on the product. \*\* Equal number of consumers voted for these terms.
|
Palestine must be placed on the agenda of the BRICS countries’ meeting this year, a senior South African minister said on Wednesday.
Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa make up the five emerging nations which form BRICS and which include 41 per cent of the world’s population.
Speaking at an Israeli Apartheid Week event at the University of Cape Town, South Africa’s Minister of Higher Education Naledi Pandor called on students to lobby for the issue of Palestine to be included in BRICS’ agenda as the body will be chaired by South Africa this year.
She went on to reaffirm both the South African government and the African National Congress’ solidarity with the people of Palestine.
Read: Apartheid South Africa versus Apartheid Israel
Urging South Africans to support international struggles for freedom and self-determination, Pandor stressed that this should be done in the same way that the global community stood in solidarity with the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa.
“One of the things we failed to appreciate as South Africans is the immense contribution to our struggle by the international anti-apartheid movement. We enjoyed support from all corners of the world and now that we are free we are ignoring and enjoying our freedom and we have forgotten those who are oppressed in other parts of the world.”
“Now that we have achieved our freedom, we must not forget our friends and allies who helped us liberate ourselves,” she cautioned.
The ANC’s recent vote in favour of downgrading the South African embassy in Israel “is not an anti-Israel resolution, it is a pro-Palestine resolution”, she continued.
“It does express our dismay and anger at the absence of any attempt by Israel, which is the powerful component of the struggle and its powerful friends in the north, their absence of any attempt to free the people of Palestine from the oppression they suffer today.” |
You need direct access to the database with something like phpMyAdmin. If the posts are still in the database, you will be able to get them back. If they’re not there, you might have access to something like binary logs for MySQL, but that’s a long shot.
Unfortunately, not only they aren’t in the DB, but I don’t have a usable backup either (the last full backup I have is from about two weeks ago and the daily backup has the same thing as.. what i see).
Another weird thing is that some days ago, in my Akismet spam list I found some posts from way back (that weren’t spam, but.. why check them if they were already “accepted” ?).
So I suspect that something might have triggered a full check and it automagically deleted what it considered spam or something.. |
Press (TV series)
Press is a six-part British television drama series first shown on BBC One on 6 September 2018. It was cancelled after one series.
Cast
Charlotte Riley as Holly Evans, news editor of The Herald
Ben Chaplin as Duncan Allen, editor of The Post
Priyanga Burford as Amina Chaudury, editor of The Herald
Paapa Essiedu as Ed Washburn, reporter at The Post
Al Weaver as James Edwards, investigative reporter at The Herald
Ellie Kendrick as Leona Manning-Lynd, reporter at The Herald
Genevieve Barr as Charlotte Evans, Features Editor at The Herald
Brendan Cowell as Peter Langly, deputy editor of The Herald
Shane Zaza as Raz Kane, news editor of The Post
Susannah Wise as Wendy Bolt, a columnist
David Suchet as George Emmerson, chairman and CEO of Worldwide News, owners of The Post
Elliot Levey as Matthew Harper, the Prime Minister
Dominic Rowan as Joshua West, business tycoon
Reception
The series was cancelled after one series.
Journalists were not impressed with the show, Digital Spy calling it "less realistic than Star Trek". Sean o'Grady of The Independent characterised it as "too cliché-ridden, its characters two-dimensional stereotypes, floating around like dead fish in a tank". The Guardian's Sam Wollaston gave it three stars, but called its picture of the industry "20 years out of date".
It was broadcast in America in October 2019. Sophie Gilbert of The Atlantic called it "fascinating" and "periodically clunky."
Episodes
References
External links
Category:2018 British television series debuts
Category:2018 British television series endings
Category:2010s British drama television series
Category:2010s British television miniseries
Category:BBC television dramas
Category:BBC television miniseries
Category:English-language television programs
Category:Television shows set in England |
How It Works
It’s estimated that up to 30% of all plaintiffs face financial pressure at some point during the claims process. While attorneys may take a case on a contingency basis and advance related costs, there typically remains the prohibition against providing funds for living expenses, medical bills and other necessary costs. Prospect Funding Partners fills this void and can provide funds to your client.
Pre-settlement funding is a cash advance provided to a plaintiff involved in a lawsuit or insurance claim. The funds are used by plaintiffs to cover immediate financial needs, providing the time to negotiate a better settlement.
Our funds are non-recourse and our fees vary depending upon the type and value of a particular claim. We evaluate each case individually and tailor fees based upon the particular circumstances of a case. We offer flexible terms to help you maximize the settlement, and there are no application fees or monthly payments.
Don’t let your clients settle for less.
Our Process
Simple. Fast. Confidential.Your time is valuable as well as your clients. Prospect Funding Partners requires only a minimal amount of information to evaluate a case. Our application can be completed online or downloaded and faxed in. Once we receive an application from your client, we will review it and contact you. It will take no more than 15 minutes to go through the particulars of a case with you.
Within 48 hours of receiving all required documents, Prospect Funding Partners completes an evaluation of your client’s case and provide an answer in regards to funding. If your client’s case is approved, they will be advanced funds immediately upon accepting our terms.
Step 1: Apply.Your client can apply online or call (855) 767-7100. There are no application fees.
Step 2: Case Evaluation.Prospect Funding Partners will review your client’s case and contact you for a no more than 15 minute evaluation of the case. An answer will be given within 48 hours.
Step 3: Funds Advanced.Clients with approved applications will be advanced funds immediately after accepting the terms.
Eligibility
To be eligible for pre-settlement funding a person must be:
Involved in a pending lawsuit or legal claim
Represented by an attorney
Need funds to meet immediate financial needs
Trust Prospect Funding Partners to advance your client funds so they do not have to settle for less than they deserve.
Funding is not available in the following states: Arkansas, Colorado, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Vermont. We do not fund Workers Compensation Cases in the following states: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington DC, and Wisconsin. |
Molecular weight fibrinogen variants alter gene expression and functional characteristics of human endothelial cells.
Fibrin is a temporary matrix that not only seals a wound, but also provides a temporary matrix structure for invading cells during wound healing. Two naturally occurring fibrinogen variants, high molecular weight (HMW) and low molecular weight (LMW) fibrinogen, display different properties in supporting angiogenesis in vivo and in vitro. This study was aimed at investigating the functional characteristics and molecular mechanisms of human microvascular endothelial cells (HMVECs) cultured on HMW and LMW fibrin matrices. HMVECs on HMW fibrin matrices showed increased proliferation and tube formation as compared with their counterparts on unfractionated and LMW fibrin. Degradation of HMW fibrin was markedly enhanced by the presence of HMVECs, that of LMW fibrin was enhanced only slightly. However, the expression levels of fibrinolysis-regulating proteins and integrins were similar. Subsequent microarray analysis revealed that the expression of 377 genes differed significantly between HMVECs cultured on HMW fibrin and those cultured on LMW fibrin. Among these genes, UNC5B, DLL4 and the DLL4-Notch downstream targets Hey1, Hey2 and Hes1 showed increased expression in HMVECs on LMW fibrin. However, pharmacologic and genetic (DLL4 small interfering RNA) inhibition of DLL4-Notch signaling blunted rather than enhanced proliferation and tube formation by HMVECs on both fibrin variants. Heterogeneity in naturally occurring fibrinogen strongly influences endothelial cell proliferation and tube formation, and causes alterations in gene expression, including that of DLL4-Notch. The higher fibrinolytic sensitivity of HMW fibrin in the presence of HMVECs contributes to increased tube formation. Although the expression of DLL4-Notch was altered, it did not explain the enhanced tube formation in HMW fibrin. This study provides new perspectives for biological and tissue engineering applications. |
Dear Editor,
Lung cancer is the predominant cause of cancer-related death worldwide \[[@CR1]\]. Non-small cell lung cancer accounts for 80%--85% and small cell lung cancer (SCLC) accounts for 15%--20% of all lung cancer cases \[[@CR2]\]. Patients with SCLC, a highly aggressive and poorly differentiated malignancy, have an alarming average 5-year overall survival rate of less than 10% \[[@CR3]\]. Most patients with SCLC already show clinically detectable metastases at diagnosis and have extremely poor prognoses, even when treated with multimodality therapy \[[@CR4]\]. Before the addition of atezolizumab to chemotherapy became the first-line treatment of extensive-stage SCLC, chemotherapy is the primary treatment of SCLC \[[@CR5]\]. However, the disease prognosis remains poor because almost all patients relapse after an initial response and eventually die of the disease \[[@CR5]\]. Even after robust responses to initial chemotherapy and irradiation, SCLC recurs easily, and no standard therapeutic strategies exist for relapsed SCLC \[[@CR6]\]. SCLC causes a high mortality worldwide, but information on the potential molecular mechanism of SCLC is scarce. Therefore, gaining a deep understanding of the molecular pathogenesis of human SCLC is critical for identifying novel potential targets for therapy. In the present study, by using a targeted sequencing approach to detect and compare SCLC driver gene alterations, we identified distinct molecular features in patients with chemosensitive or chemorefractory SCLC.
The details of the patients are shown in Table [1](#Tab1){ref-type="table"}. The study included 28 SCLC patients with a median follow-up duration of 30 months (range, 5--103 months). Twelve patients were classified as chemorefractory because disease progression occurred during first-line therapy or within 90 days of its completion, and 16 patients were defined as chemosensitive because the time to progression after chemotherapy was longer than 90 days. Although the median baseline concentration of cell-free DNA (cfDNA) was relatively lower in the chemosensitive group than in the chemorefractory group, no significant difference was observed between the two groups (*P *\> 0.05) (Additional file [1](#MOESM1){ref-type="media"}: Figure S1). To investigate the association between the mutation landscape of cfDNA and chemosensitivity, both cfDNA fragments and paired genomic DNA were subjected to enrichment for a 1.15 Mb size panel covering selected exonic regions of 1084 cancer-related genes (Additional file [2](#MOESM2){ref-type="media"}: Table S1). Initial analysis of somatic mutations, including single nucleotide variants (SNVs) and short insertions/deletions, showed that alterations in 4 genes were significantly different between the chemosensitive and chemorefractory groups (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}a, b). The heat-map of the mutation number shows that alterations in adenomatous polyposis coli (*APC*) occurred in 11 (68.8%) patients from the chemosensitive group and in only 2 (16.7%) patients from the chemorefractory group (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}a, c). Of the 11 patients in the chemosensitive group, 7 (63.6%) had *APC* truncation mutations, whereas the 2 patients in the chemorefractory group had nonsynonymous SNVs (Additional file [3](#MOESM3){ref-type="media"}: Figure S2). Mutations in tumor protein 53 (*TP53*), ataxiatelangiectasia mutated (*ATM*), and folliculin (*FLCN*) were commonly detected in the chemorefractory group. We found that the mutation frequencies of *TP53* (66.7% vs. 6.2%), *ATM* (66.7% vs. 12.5%), and *FLCN* (41.7% vs. 0) were all higher in the chemorefractory group than in the chemosensitive group (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}a, c). Most of the mutations were nonsynonymous SNVs (Additional file [3](#MOESM3){ref-type="media"}: Figure S2).Table 1Characteristics of patients with chemorefractory and chemosensitive small cell lung cancerCharacteristicChemorefractory groupChemosensitive groupTotal (cases)1216Age \[years; median (range)\]60.5 (47--72)57 (36--78) \< 40 \[cases (%)\]0 (0)2 (12.5) 40--49 \[cases (%)\]1 (8.3)1 (6. 3) 50--59 \[cases (%)\]4 (33.3)9 (56.3) 60--69 \[cases (%)\]5 (41.7)2 (12.5) ≥ 70 \[cases (%)\]2 (16.7)2 (12.5)Gender \[cases (%)\] Male11 (91.7)9 (56.3) Female1 (8.3)7 (43.8)Disease stage \[cases (%)\] Limited stage3 (25.0)12 (75.0) Extensive stage9 (75.0)4 (25.0)Cycles of first-line regimen \[cases (%)\] 1--25 (41.7)0 (0.0) 3--43 (25.0)5 (31.3) 5--64 (33.3)11 (68.8)Follow-up \[months; median (range)\]10 (5--16)43.5 (26--103) Fig. 1Somatic mutation statuses of genes in plasma cell-free DNA (cfDNA) of chemorefractory and chemosensitive small cell lung cancer (SCLC) patients. **a** The heat-map shows somatic mutation number profiles of adenomatous polyposis coli (*APC*), tumor protein 53 (*TP53*), ataxiatelangiectasia mutated (*ATM*), and folliculin (*FLCN*) identified in plasma cfDNA from each patient. Genes with high mutation numbers are shown in red, and those with low mutation numbers are shown in blue. **b** The heat-map shows hierarchical clustering of the 4 genes which briefly separate chemosensitive (blue) and chemorefractory (green) SCLC patients. **c** Differences in somatic mutation numbers of *APC*, *ATM*, *TP53*, and *FLCN* between the chemorefractory and chemosensitive groups. The data were statistically evaluated with two-tailed *t*-test. The bars indicate standard deviation. \**P* \< 0.05. **d** Kaplan--Meier plots illustrate progression-free survival estimates for SCLC patients with and without mutations of *APC*, *ATM*, *TP53*, and *FLCN*. **e** Principal component analysis (PCA) of somatic mutation number profiles of individual cfDNA from chemosensitive and chemorefractory patients. The percentage variance for each of the principal components is given in parentheses, with separation of chemosensitive and chemorefractory patients seen at the somatic mutation level
To further investigate the prognostic values of *APC*, *ATM*, *TP53*, and *FLCN*, Kaplan--Meier plots were generated. The results showed that *APC* mutations could be considered as a favorable prognostic factor. Patients with *APC* mutations had significantly longer progression-free survival (PFS) than did patients without *APC* mutations (*P* = 0.008) (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}d). Conversely, the patients with *ATM*, *TP53*, or *FLCN* mutations had significantly shorter PFS than did the patients without such mutations (all *P* \< 0.05) (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}d).
We next performed unsupervised hierarchical clustering of cfDNA based on these 4 genes to explore whether these genes were associated with the chemosensitivity of SCLC. The results demonstrated a clear segregation according to the assigned chemosensitive or chemorefractory status, as expected (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}b). Unsupervised principal component analysis (PCA) demonstrated a partial separation of samples according to their chemosensitive and chemorefractory statuses (Fig. [1](#Fig1){ref-type="fig"}e).
To further explore the relationship between the mutational landscape of cfDNA and the effect of platinum-based chemotherapy, we surveyed the copy number alterations (CNAs) across the genome for all blood samples. Both the genomic DNA of blood cells and cfDNA were extracted to identify meaningful CNA patterns. A heat-map of CNAs from the 28 patients is shown in Fig. [2](#Fig2){ref-type="fig"}a. Differential CNAs between the chemosensitive and chemorefractory groups were detected for 5 genes, namely, Src homology 2 domain containing protein 5 (*SH2D5*), carbonic anhydrase 12 (*CA12*), lamin A/C (*LMNA*), patched 1 (*PTCH1*), and DNA ligase 4 (*LIG4*). We next performed unsupervised hierarchical clustering of cfDNA based on these 5 genes to explore whether they were associated with the chemosensitivity of SCLC. Although heterogeneity existed in this profile, chemosensitivity segregation of the patients was not observed (Fig. [2](#Fig2){ref-type="fig"}b). Unsupervised PCA based on global chromosomal alterations was conducted, and the results demonstrated a partial separation of the samples according to chemosensitive and chemorefractory statuses (Fig. [2](#Fig2){ref-type="fig"}c).Fig. 2Copy number alterations (CNAs) in plasma cfDNA of chemorefractory and chemosensitive SCLC patients. **a** The heat-map shows CNA profiles of Src homology 2 domain containing protein 5 (*SH2D5*), carbonic anhydrase 12 (*CA12*), Lamin A/C (*LMNA*), Patched 1 (*PTCH1*), and DNA Ligase 4 (*LIG4*) identified in plasma cfDNA of each patient. CNA gains are shown in red, and CNA losses are shown in blue. **b** The heat-map shows hierarchical clustering of the 5 genes which failed to separate chemosensitive (blue) and chemorefractory (green) SCLC patients. **c** PCA of somatic mutation number profiles of individual cfDNA from chemosensitive and chemorefractory patients. The percentage variance for each of the principal components is given in parentheses, with separation of chemosensitive and chemorefractory patients seen at the somatic mutation level
Our results showed that patients with *TP53*, *ATM*, or *FLCN* gene mutations had worse prognoses than did patients with wild-type *TP53*, *ATM*, or *FLCN* genes and that patients with *APC* truncation mutations tended to have tumors being more sensitive to platinum-based chemotherapy.
In 2017, Almodovar et al. \[[@CR7]\] reported that mutant allele frequencies and CNAs in the cfDNA of patients with SCLC were associated with the disease burden, depth of the treatment response, and timely warning of disease relapse. In line with these results, we found that the *TP53* mutation was related to the chemotherapeutic response. In addition to *TP53*, we identified other three genes that were associated with chemosensitivity. *ATM* or *FLCN* mutations can be considered as unfavorable prognostic factors for patients with SCLC, whereas patients with *APC* mutations, especially truncation mutations, had longer PFS than did those without *APC* mutations.
In the present study, the CNAs of *SH2D5*, *CA12*, *LMNA*, *PTCH1*, and *LIG4* showed a differential pattern between the chemosensitive and chemorefractory groups. Further large-scale studies and larger panels are needed to validate our findings and explore the association between the cfDNA CNA profile and chemosensitivity to platinum-based chemotherapy for patients with SCLC.
In conclusion, we found that the mutation profile of cfDNA was associated with chemosensitivity to platinum-based chemotherapy in patients with SCLC. Further large-scale prospective studies are needed to validate our findings.
Additional files
================
{#Sec1}
**Additional file 1: Figure S1.** Concentrations of cell-free DNA (cfDNA) in plasma of patients with chemorefractory and chemosensitive small cell lung cancer (SCLC). The concentration of cfDNA was undetectable in 1 patient in chemosensitive group. The bars indicate standard deviation. **Additional file 2: Table S1.** List of 1084 detected genes in the initial panel (in alphabetical order). **Additional file 3: Figure S2.** The heat-map shows somatic mutation profiles of adenomatous polyposis coli (*APC*), tumor protein 53 (*TP53*), ataxiatelangiectasia mutated (*ATM*), and folliculin (*FLCN*) identified in plasma cell-free DNA from each patient. SNV, single nucleotide variant.
SCLC
: small cell lung cancer
PFS
: progression-free survival
CNAs
: copy number alterations
*APC*
: adenomatous polyposis coli
*TP53*
: tumor protein 53
*ATM*
: ataxiatelangiectasia mutated
FLCN
: folliculin
PCA
: principal component analysis
*SH2D5*
: Src homology 2 domain containing protein 5
*CA12*
: carbonic anhydrase 12
*LMNA*
: lamin A/C
*PTCH1*
: patched 1
*LIG4*
: DNA ligase 4
SNVs
: single nucleotide variants
JF and HZ conceived and supervised the project, JZ and CT analyzed the results, wrote and revised the manuscript. FL, JW and WH performed the experiments, JN, LD, WH, XC, XM, GT, DW, SH, YW, JL and ZZ analyzed the results and wrote the draft manuscript. All authors reviewed and edited the manuscript. All authors read and approved the final manuscript.
Acknowledgements {#FPar1}
================
This study was sponsored by the Beijing Genecast Biotechnology Co., Beijing, China.
Competing interests {#FPar2}
===================
The authors declare that they have no competing interests.
Availability of data and materials {#FPar3}
==================================
Not applicable.
Consent for publication {#FPar4}
=======================
Not applicable.
Ethics approval and consent to participate {#FPar5}
==========================================
The study protocol was approved by the Committee of Medical Ethics of the Peking University Cancer Hospital & Institute and carried out according to the principles of the Declaration of Helsinki. All patients provided written informed consent to participate in the study prior to enrollment.
Funding {#FPar6}
=======
Not applicable.
|
Q:
grouping with oracle with clause
i have a table from which i am trying to pull the frequency distribution by age-group and score-group. Below is the query I am running.
with age_map as (select distinct age,case when age is not null
and AGE>=16 AND AGE<36 then '16-35'
when age is not null and AGE>=36 AND
AGE<56 then '36-56'
when age is not null and AGE>=56 then
'56+'
when age is null then 'NA'
end as age_group
from rec_table
where monthofsale = 'Apr 2017'
)
select name,location,b.age_group,sum(weight),count(*)
from rec_table a, age_map b
where a.age = b.age
group by name,location,b.age_group
When running the query, I keep getting the error:
ORA-00979: not a GROUP BY expression
I am pretty sure I am including all the columns. So, wondering if this is not correct?
My expected output is:
Name location age_group weight count
x y 16-35 15 3
p q 36-56 48 7
Any ideas on this?
A:
The group by error is coming from the with clause:
Do the select like this:
select age, case when age is not null and AGE>=16 AND AGE<36 then '16-35'
when age is not null and AGE>=36 AND AGE<56 then '36-56'
when age is not null and AGE>=56 then '56+'
when age is null then 'NA'
end as age_group
from rec_table
where monthofsale = 'Apr 2017'
group by age, case when age is not null and AGE>=16 AND AGE<36 then '16-35'
when age is not null and AGE>=36 AND AGE<56 then '36-56'
when age is not null and AGE>=56 then '56+'
when age is null then 'NA'
end
|
When this Special Issue was launched, we cast the net widely in terms of the subject matter we considered suitable for the papers. We stated that papers on "well-established unit operations such as heat treatments and membrane separation in addition to emerging technologies" would be welcomed. The seven papers accepted do, indeed, cover a range of topics including UHT milk, proteolytic digestion, membrane technologies, cheese and yogurt. Three papers \[[@B1-foods-09-00272],[@B2-foods-09-00272],[@B3-foods-09-00272]\] involve aspects of the beneficial uses of proteolytic enzymes, two \[[@B4-foods-09-00272],[@B5-foods-09-00272]\] involve the use of membrane technology in cheese making, while two deal with the role of ingredients---raw milk in the UHT paper \[[@B6-foods-09-00272]\] and apricot fiber in the yogurt paper \[[@B7-foods-09-00272]\]---in product quality. All in all, the papers demonstrate the breadth of ongoing research for an industry based on just one raw material, milk.
Each submission explores innovative approaches by the respective authors in their quest to push the boundaries of scientific and technological understanding. Some examples are illustrated below: Chamberland et al. \[[@B4-foods-09-00272]\] address the question of whether one should chose a 0.1 μm pore size MF or 10 kDa molecular weight cut-off ultrafiltration (UF) membranes for cheese milk standardization. The authors found that the UF, rather than the MF membrane, scored better in terms of lower running (energy and membrane) costs. In a related study, the sensory quality of hard, high-cooked cheese processed from milk, preconcentrated 1.9 fold by reverse osmosis, is shown by Taivosalo et al. \[[@B5-foods-09-00272]\] to be largely unaffected. Heat stability represents an important field of study in dairy science, and in this issue, readers have the opportunity to consider the approach of Karlsson et al. \[[@B6-foods-09-00272]\], who undertook a full factorial designed study on the role of key milk components on the stability of UHT milk. Crude preparations of apricot fiber (Karaca et al. \[[@B7-foods-09-00272]\]) were demonstrated as a novel ingredient with the capacity to confer functional benefits during yogurt processing.
As editors of this special issue, we find it appropriate to reflect on how well the scientific originality of the reviewed manuscripts scored against sustainability criteria. The two membrane-based papers concerned with either protein standardization \[[@B4-foods-09-00272]\] or milk pre-concentration \[[@B5-foods-09-00272]\] impact cheesemaking efficiency directly through yield improvements, shorter manufacturing processes and increased manufacturing capacity (without the need for extra cheese vat capacity). Chamberland et al. \[[@B4-foods-09-00272]\] go one step further by differentiating between closely matched permeating UF and MF polymeric membranes in favor of UF, because of its lower energy usage and membrane replacement costs. Protein hydrolysis is not typically associated with an opportunity to fractionate whey protein, except Sáez et al. \[[@B3-foods-09-00272]\] identified an opportunity during a particular set of incubation conditions in which the breakdown of α-lactalbumin (α-la) could be delayed. Before putting in place a strategy to recover undigested α-la, Sáez et al. \[[@B3-foods-09-00272]\] identified a number of shortcomings during application of a range of non-thermal and thermal methods of inactivating the enzyme-containing hydrolysate. Chief among these was the unexpected amount of heat-induced aggregation taking place among peptides and undigested protein in the whey protein hydrolysates which ruled out subsequent fractionation efforts. Suddenly, what was perceived to be a very elegant, sustainable, dual enzymatic hydrolysis/fractionation process was ground to a halt and is pending the next stage of development. The positive interaction when a plant-based ingredient is shown to be functional in yogurt \[7} is evidence of how synergies may be harnessed when a holistic approach is adopted via food ingredient combinations, i.e., plant and dairy can co-exist in formulated foods where they can be enjoyed for both the pleasure of eating as well as the health benefits that they bring to the consumer.
It is important to recognize the valuable dissemination contribution that ***foods*** is making through this Special Issue: Processing and Technology of Dairy Products, given its achievement of a high impact factor, its commitment to a rapid turnaround of peer-reviewed manuscripts before publication, and its accessibility to a wide audience.
The authors declare no conflict of interest.
|
ANNOUNCEMENT {#s1}
============
Acinetobacter nosocomialis is a Gram-negative coccobacillus that is a member of the Acinetobacter calcoaceticus/Acinetobacter baumannii (ACB) complex. While A. baumannii predominates over all other members of the ACB complex in terms of incidence, poorer clinical outcomes, and antibiotic resistance rates, A. nosocomialis remains a clinically relevant human pathogen.
Previously, we reported the draft genome sequence of A. nosocomialis strain M2 ([@B1]). Here, we report the complete genome sequence of A. nosocomialis strain M2. Strain M2 is one of the most well-characterized A. nosocomialis strains to date, with published research detailing quorum sensing ([@B2]), type IV pili ([@B3], [@B4]), type VI secretion ([@B5]), antibiotic resistance ([@B6]), oxidative stress ([@B7]), surface motility ([@B8]), type II secretion ([@B9], [@B10]), type I secretion, and contact-dependent inhibition systems ([@B11]).
An ice scraping from a frozen stock of strain M2 stored at −80°C was struck for isolation onto an LB agar (Miller) plate and incubated at 37°C for ∼16 h. A 14-ml round-bottom tube containing 2 ml of Luria broth was inoculated with a single colony picked from this plate and incubated at 37°C and 180 rpm for ∼16 h. This overnight culture was used to inoculate a 250-ml Erlenmeyer flask containing 25 ml of Luria broth prewarmed to 37°C to a starting optical density at 600 nm (OD~600~) of 0.05, as measured by a BioMate 3 spectrophotometer (Thermo Fisher Scientific). This was incubated at 37°C and 180 rpm until an OD~600~ of 0.7 was reached. DNA extraction was performed using 5 ml of this culture and the Genomic-tip 500 kit (Qiagen) per the manufacturer's instructions. Purified genomic DNA (gDNA) was analyzed using a NanoDrop spectrophotometer and Qubit fluorometer (Thermo Scientific), the latter using a double-stranded DNA (dsDNA) high-sensitivity (HS) kit per the manufacturer's instructions. A 1D native gDNA barcoded library was generated using an Oxford Nanopore Technologies (ONT) native barcoding expansion kit (catalog number EXP-NBD104) and ligation sequencing kit (catalog number SQK-LSK109) per the manufacturer's instructions. The DNA library containing the NB01 barcode was sequenced on a FLO-MIN106 flow cell using the MinION device (ONT). This sequencing run was multiplexed with 1 other bacterial gDNA library tagged with a different barcode. All computation, other than data collection, was performed using Amazon's Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2) service. Base calling was performed using Guppy v3.0.3 (ONT) with default settings and graphics processing unit (GPU) acceleration (EC2 p3.2xlarge instance). Demultiplexing was performed first using Guppy, which yielded 176,357 reads totaling ∼2.9 Gbp. An additional round of demultiplexing, with adapter and barcode trimming, was performed with Porechop v0.2.4 ([github.com/rrwick/Porechop](http://github.com/rrwick/Porechop)) with the discard_middle option enabled. Reads were filtered using Filtlong v0.2.0 ([github.com/rrwick/Filtlong](http://github.com/rrwick/Filtlong)) with standard settings, except for a minimum length of 20,000 bp, to keep only the top 90% of reads, and with a target output of 500 Mbp. Canu v1.8 ([@B12]), with standard settings and an estimated genome size of 3.8 Mbp, was used to correct and trim reads. Reads were then assembled using Unicycler v0.4.7 ([@B13]) with standard settings for long reads, including error correction. Polishing of the assembly was carried out using medaka v0.6.5 (ONT), followed by Pilon v1.23 ([@B14]) with standard settings, the latter using Illumina MiSeq reads that were originally used to create the previously described strain M2 draft genome assembly ([@B1]). All trimmed reads from both sequencing runs were mapped onto the final assembly using Minimap2 v2.1.7 ([@B15]) and Bowtie2 v2.3.5.1 ([@B16]), with standard settings, for ONT MinION reads and Illumina MiSeq reads, respectively. Average coverage depth of the A. nosocomialis genome, as calculated by SAMtools v1.9 ([@B17]), was 720× with ONT reads and 331× with Illumina reads. The final assembly was annotated using the NCBI Prokaryotic Genome Annotation Pipeline v4.8 ([@B18], [@B19]). The complete assembled genome of A. nosocomialis strain M2 consists of one circular chromosome of 3,824,973 bp having a 38.8% GC content and 3,458 protein-encoding genes.
Data availability. {#s1.1}
------------------
The complete genome sequence of A. nosocomialis strain M2 reported here was deposited in GenBank under accession number [CP040105](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/CP040105). Base-called reads can be found in the Sequence Read Archive under accession number [SRR9018422](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/SRR9018422).
This research was supported, in part, by the Iowa Osteopathic Education and Research Fund. The funders had no role in study design, data collection, or the decision to submit this work for publication.
[^1]: **Citation** Pehde B, Lizer N, Carruthers M. 2019. Complete genome sequence of the nosocomial pathogen *Acinetobacter nosocomialis* strain M2. Microbiol Resour Announc 8:e00538-19. <https://doi.org/10.1128/MRA.00538-19>.
|
It says here, in Malvino Electronic Principles, that the emitter voltage(AC) is half of the input voltage v1.
Why?
I understood the the current must be constant at this tail, which contains emitter resistor. Its constant because, there is constant voltage drop across that resistor, and 99% of the Vee is dropped across it, because 2 * 0.7 V of both base-emitter junctions, is negligible.
""It says here, in Malvino Electronic Principles, that the emitter voltage(AC) is half of the input voltage v1.
Why? ""
no nibbles yet? i've been thinking about it all day... here's my 'poor man's offering'...
you already know the necessary facts. So let's work it in your mind.
but first simplify it by removing Q2 as a step in our thinking...
with no Q2,,,
as input to Q1's base rises, more current flows through Q1 so voltage at emitter goes up.
In fact -emitter voltage will rise by almost exactly same amount as base did, because Vbe is pretty small. You already knew that.
now replace Q2 and observe how differently it works -
as input to Q1's base rises, more current flows through Q1 ,so the voltage at emitter still goes up but not quite like before.
It's different now because every extra millivolt at emitter is also impressed across Q2's e-b.
And in a direction to lower Q2's current which drives emitter voltage back down.
Qualitatively that's what is happening. And you knew that too.
To see why it's half Vin not 1/100th - let's try this thought...
allow for a moment this mild exaggeration: that the "tail" is a constant current source
(which it approximates if RsubE is high)
now do a Kirchoff's Voltage Law Walk around this loop, for the AC signal.
::
start at circuit common and traverse up through V1, in through Q1's b-e and out via Q2's e-b which gets us back to common.
-V1 +Vbe(Q1) + Veb(Q2) = 0
V1 = Vbe(Q1) + Veb(Q2)
That means for the AC signal the two base-emitter junctions form a voltage divider .
Aha - so the signal voltage will divide between them, and emitter node is in middle.
you knew that, too...
so far as AC signal current goes, the two base emitter junctions are in series. No ac signal current can get out of emitter -emitter node via a constant current source. Not much can get out through that RE if it's respectably high resistance, signal current will take the easier way out through Q2's internal Re.
you knew the facts leading to that.
So your AC signal voltage is divided between the internal Re's of the two transistors. For a differential amp those transistors would be a matched pair with similar internal resistances. THAT'S why it's half !
learning is mostly discovering what you already knew.....
Interesting - with Q2's base commoned, that differential amp amounts to just a common collector stage followed by a common base stage... common collector stage gives it current gain , common base gives voltage gain.
[ now at first glance it will look like i missed a sign in that KVL - remember this is small signal analysis not the DC biasing. ]
and yes,, op-amps are differential amplifiers. Don't despair you'll be amazed how quickly they make sense. They're not hard to understand, just hard to believe..
.
""It says here, in Malvino Electronic Principles, that the emitter voltage(AC) is half of the input voltage v1.
Why? ""
no nibbles yet? i've been thinking about it all day... here's my 'poor man's offering'...
you already know the necessary facts. So let's work it in your mind.
but first simplify it by removing Q2 as a step in our thinking...
with no Q2,,,
as input to Q1's base rises, more current flows through Q1 so voltage at emitter goes up.
In fact -emitter voltage will rise by almost exactly same amount as base did, because Vbe is pretty small. You already knew that.
now replace Q2 and observe how differently it works -
as input to Q1's base rises, more current flows through Q1 ,so the voltage at emitter still goes up but not quite like before.
It's different now because every extra millivolt at emitter is also impressed across Q2's e-b.
And in a direction to lower Q2's current which drives emitter voltage back down.
Qualitatively that's what is happening. And you knew that too.
To see why it's half Vin not 1/100th - let's try this thought...
allow for a moment this mild exaggeration: that the "tail" is a constant current source
(which it approximates if RsubE is high)
now do a Kirchoff's Voltage Law Walk around this loop, for the AC signal.
::
start at circuit common and traverse up through V1, in through Q1's b-e and out via Q2's e-b which gets us back to common.
-V1 +Vbe(Q1) + Veb(Q2) = 0
V1 = Vbe(Q1) + Veb(Q2)
That means for the AC signal the two base-emitter junctions form a voltage divider .
Aha - so the signal voltage will divide between them, and emitter node is in middle.
you knew that, too...
so far as AC signal current goes, the two base emitter junctions are in series. No ac signal current can get out of emitter -emitter node via a constant current source. Not much can get out through that RE if it's respectably high resistance, signal current will take the easier way out through Q2's internal Re.
you knew the facts leading to that.
So your AC signal voltage is divided between the internal Re's of the two transistors. For a differential amp those transistors would be a matched pair with similar internal resistances. THAT'S why it's half !
learning is mostly discovering what you already knew.....
Interesting - with Q2's base commoned, that differential amp amounts to just a common collector stage followed by a common base stage... common collector stage gives it current gain , common base gives voltage gain.
[ now at first glance it will look like i missed a sign in that KVL - remember this is small signal analysis not the DC biasing. ]
and yes,, op-amps are differential amplifiers. Don't despair you'll be amazed how quickly they make sense. They're not hard to understand, just hard to believe..
.
Thank you very much for your in-depth reply. I just finished reading it. I understood every word you said. Thank you very very much.
Differential amps are now clear. Now I can move on to op-amps, and nail them.
So, does the problem statement say the Rc = Re? Because the gain will only be 1/2 in that case.
This is the Vo/Vi gain. Bassalisk's question referred to Ve/Vi gain, which is 1/2 for matched transistors.
The common way to do this is with the T small-signal model of a NPN (see link below). Then do a KVL loop from Q1's base to Q2's base (this works because they are both ground referenced). Because there is only the AC source and two matched Re's in the loop the AC voltage at Ve is Vac/2. |
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Designed and crafted in Italy, Persol - from the Italian "per il sole" meaning "for the sun" - is a favorite among tastemakers and celebrities for its impeccable fit and incredible clarity. The brand's patented Meflecto temples offer a secure fit, while crystal-tempered sunglass lenses provide protection with distortion-free vision. With a brand character that can best be described as classy, exclusive, stylish, and unique, Persol continues to go beyond trends. |
A new study led by researchers at Harvard Medical School identifies key cellular mechanisms that cause blood vessels to age. Now, they're looking for ways to apply what they found in mice studies to human health.
Here & Now's Jeremy Hobson talks with David Sinclair (@davidasinclair), the study's senior investigator, a professor and co-director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for the Biology of Aging at Harvard Medical School.
Interview Highlights
On what the research has found about what happens to blood vessels as they age
"Well as I'm sure many listeners know, as we get older we lose our vitality, we become weaker, we're less able to exercise. We just don't feel young anymore, and one of the main reasons for that is that we don't have the blood vessels the blood flowing through our bodies as we used to. And as a result, what happens is that our tissues, our organs, they don't get enough blood supply and they become deficient in oxygen. But also what happens is they can't clear out the toxins. And this combination ends up leaving our tissues and organs susceptible to diseases from liver failure, kidney failure and even dementia. And what we are showing in this new study is that's actually quite reversible, at least in mice, so far."
On reversing that aging process
"We've been over at Harvard working on this for a number of years, 20 years. We first worked on the red-wine molecule resveratrol. Now we have new molecules that we think are even better. And it turns out it's pretty simple how it works: We've figured out that there are genes in our bodies that respond to exercise and dieting, and we can turn those on with just some small molecules that seem to be safe so far in mice, and even so far safe in humans.
"When you give the molecule to the mice, what happens is their bodies — at least the blood vessels — they rejuvenate, they actually become no longer deaf to the signals from muscle. So they behave as though the mice have been exercising, and we have mice that in the lab are 2 years old, which is like 75-, 80-year-old human. And within a few weeks they become as fit and as vital as a young mouse again."
On the potential for the study's results to translate to humans
"I'm quite optimistic with this one, because our blood vessels work the same way as in mice. This isn't a complicated disease like Alzheimer's. And so I think that actually I'd be surprised if there isn't some benefit in people. Of course the challenge is to make a drug, and we have to make sure it's super safe, but we're already doing human studies over the road from my lab at Harvard. And so far it looks really good."
On whether the research would be applied to help treat disease, or get older people to exercise more
"This would be both. We're working on having a drug available that your doctor could prescribe for you if you're feeling frail or you have a disease such as muscle wasting, or even diabetes and even dementia, we think that this could be useful. But as a side effect, what we think the patients would notice would be improved stamina when they wake up in the morning, they don't groan anymore. They can get back to exercising, and even people who have been in bed rest or in wheelchairs could potentially even get back to having mobility again."
On remaining questions
"Mostly I wanna know how safe it is, and those are the studies that are ongoing right now. But hopefully by the end of this year or early next, we'll actually know if the same effects are seen in human subjects, and it's pretty easy to test if somebody gets increased endurance, you don't have to wait years for the outcome. And then hopefully we'll be able to see with further studies if this actually truly reverses aging throughout the body. This molecule that we're giving the patients, or the test subjects, has the potential to actually extend lifespan in the same way it does mice. And so that's really the holy grail here that we're chasing." |
require "helper.rb"
describe Gravtastic do
before(:each) do
@g = Class.new do |c|
c.send(:include, Gravtastic)
c.is_gravtastic
end
end
describe ".is_gravtastic" do
it "includes the methods" do
@g.included_modules.should include(Gravtastic::InstanceMethods)
end
end
describe 'default' do
it "options are {:rating => 'PG', :secure => true, :filetype => :png}" do
@g.gravatar_defaults.should == {
:rating => 'PG',
:secure => true,
:filetype => :png,
}
end
it "source is :email" do
@g.gravatar_source.should == :email
end
end
describe "#gravatar_id" do
it "downcases email" do
a = @g.new
stub(a).email do 'USER@EXAMPLE.COM' end
b = @g.new
stub(b).email do 'user@example.com' end
a.gravatar_id.should == b.gravatar_id
end
end
describe "#gravatar_url" do
before(:each) do
@user = @g.new
stub(@user).email{ 'user@example.com' }
end
it "makes a pretty URL" do
@user.gravatar_url(:secure => false).should == 'http://gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.png?r=PG'
end
it "makes a secure URL" do
@user.gravatar_url.should == 'https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.png?r=PG'
end
it "makes a jpeggy URL" do
@user.gravatar_url(:secure => false, :filetype => :jpg).should == 'http://gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.jpg?r=PG'
end
it "makes a saucy URL" do
@user.gravatar_url(:secure => false, :rating => 'R').should == 'http://gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.png?r=R'
end
it "makes a forcedefault URL" do
@user.gravatar_url(:secure => false, :forcedefault => true).should == 'http://gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.png?f=y&r=PG'
end
it "abides to some new fancy feature" do
@user.gravatar_url(:secure => false, :extreme => true).should == 'http://gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.png?extreme=true&r=PG'
end
it "makes a URL from the defaults" do
stub(@user.class).gravatar_defaults{ {:size => 20, :rating => 'R18', :secure => true, :filetype => :png} }
@user.gravatar_url.should == 'https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b58996c504c5638798eb6b511e6f49af.png?r=R18&s=20'
end
end
end
|
Attorney General Loretta Lynch is reportedly planning to defer to the FBI in deciding whether or not to prosecute Hillary Clinton for mishandling classified information, corruption, and other potential transgressions.
The move, responding to bipartisan criticism of Lynch’s private meeting with former president Bill Clinton earlier this week, is being described by some sources as a recusal. However, it is not.
Lynch retains control of the case, effectively. She has merely, according to reports, decided whose recommendation to follow in making a decision — and has not formally ceded the power to decide. It is a non-recusal recusal.
All Lynch’s move actually does is punt the political responsibility for the decision to the FBI. Though the FBI prides itself on its professionalism and independence, there is no guarantee that it, too, will not be subject to political pressures, or agendas from within and without.
In an actual recusal, Lynch would have taken herself completely out of the case, handing it to a special counsel — a non-political appointee in the Department of Justice with a sterling reputation for integrity and not subject to the Obama administration’s politicized chain of command.
Lynch’s meeting with Bill Clinton was described as “personal,” but was entirely inappropriate — not only because his wife is under investigation and has yet to be questioned by the FBI, but also because the Clinton Foundation itself is also reportedly under scrutiny.
Lynch was also first appointed as U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of New York by Clinton. At this point, there is no way to trust her — no matter who is advising her.
Joel B. Pollak is Senior Editor-at-Large at Breitbart News. His new book, See No Evil: 19 Hard Truths the Left Can’t Handle, will be published by Regnery on July 25 and is available for pre-order through Amazon. Follow him on Twitter at @joelpollak. |
I tried another new user, mactech1, can't log on at the forums with it.
I did a password reset, still can't log in.
I have also noticed that when doing the password reset I have to wait a minute or two or it doesn't do the one time log in, it just takes you to the log in page to enter your username and password, which doesn't work as the password has been reset. If I go back to the email and click the one time link again it does do the one time log in then.
We have another idea as to what is happening. You see, the issue here is that I'm not able to reproduce. Every time I try, it works seamlessly.
Reboot: In an *email*, please send me a list of all the email addresses you've registered under so that I can *delete* those users in the MacTech/MacNews drupal db. Do NOT send me any account that you want to keep (e.g., the one you use here mostly for the forums).Thanks!
There are features that only logged in users can get to, and more to come once we have this figured out and get time to develop them. For example, one of my favorite features is the http://www.macnews.com/firehose
It works on an anonymous user, BUT if you are logged in, it screens back all the items you've seen earlier and it makes it super easy to stay on top of the news in the community.Thanks!
I landed at that particular registration form by following the "log in" link at the top of the forums and then following the link in the sentence "Enter your Username and Password to log in. If you have not yet registered, you can register here."
After failing to log into the forums and getting the unknown username/password message, I investigated the usual suspects - logged out of mac sites, waited a few minutes to allow for info to replicate across servers, tried using my email address instead of username, cleared cookies (ok, used a virgin browser, same thing), and reset password. No Joy.
Wrote an email to forums@AppleCentral.com detailing what specific steps I had taken in an attempt to provide them some more troubleshooting info and leads on how to recreate the problem and saved it as a draft.
Before sending the email, I decided to use the other form (http://www.mactech.com/register) that results from following the "Register User" link in the navigation menu at the top of the forum page and try a different username/email.
Using that form was successful and now I'm stuck with " test' in my username and I haz a sad.
I suspect, Neil, that you can recreate the problem by using the form at http://www.macnews.com/register. Although that is, of course, only a guess based on my limited information.
If it's possible to get the username without " test" and use my gmail address instead of this one, that would be great, otherwise I'll keep this one and y'all can just use me as a crash test dummy or something.
I hope someone has gifted Neil a hatrack or something, he sure seems to wear a lot of different hats!
Edited to add: was able to change my email address to my preferred address in the "My Stuff" control panel. (sorry vBulletin user here still learning UBB terminology) noticed that I could change my displayed user handle there, but wasn't sure what sort of problems that might cause so I did not take advantage of that option.
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All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon. |
Helping Panhandlers
This survey is designed to collect information about how willing people are to give money to panhandlers based on the signs they are holding. Please treat each scenario as new, separate instances.
Photo copyright: Robert F. Bukaty/AP
* Required |
Medicinal plants in Pujehun District of Sierra Leone.
A study was carried out in the Pujehun District of Sierra Leone, West Africa, on the traditional use of plants for curing human diseases. The use of medicinal plants is still widespread especially in the villages and is usually the first treatment utilised. Fifty nine local plant species used for treating various illnesses were collected, identified and deposited in the Fourah Bay College Herbarium. Their medicinal uses and methods of preparing the drug are described. |
Effect of lighted incubation on embryonic growth and hatchability performance of two strains of layer breeder eggs.
1. Eggs from two layer-type breeder flocks (ISA-W vs Leghorn) between 30 and 45 weeks of age were used in 4 trials to study the effects of lighted incubation on embryonic growth from 5 to 18 d of age and hatchability per cent (HP). The physical dimensions, eggshell characteristics and conductance (EC) of eggs of the two strains were compared. 2. Eggs were set in an incubator on trays either in the dark-control or under two tubes of 20-watt white fluorescent light during the first 18 d of incubation. The light intensity ranged from 1230 to 1790 lux at the surface of the eggs. Eggs were transferred to dark hatching compartments at d 19 of incubation. 3. The genetic make-up of birds influenced the physical dimensions and eggshell characteristics of eggs. ISA-W eggs had higher weight, surface area (ESA), volume (EV), width, EC, shell volume and HP, and lower ESA:EV ratio, per cent shell, shell density and dead embryos than those of Leghorn eggs. 4. Lighted incubation increased daily embryonic growth (mg/d) and HP by 3.9 and 5.9%, respectively, when compared with the dark-control incubation. 5. The physical dimensions and eggshell characteristics of eggs influenced the effects of lighted incubation on embryonic growth and HP. Lighted incubation increased embryonic growth and HP of ISA-W eggs. The increase in embryonic growth and HP of the Leghorn eggs was not significant. 6. The genetic make-up of birds influenced the physical dimensions and eggshell characteristics of their eggs and these differences in the characteristics of hatching eggs influenced embryonic growth and HP when incubated under light. |
rs picked without replacement from rxrxgogro.
2/21
Two letters picked without replacement from {s: 1, h: 1, z: 2, r: 4}. Give prob of picking 2 z.
1/28
Two letters picked without replacement from {j: 3, v: 2}. What is prob of picking 1 v and 1 j?
3/5
Calculate prob of picking 1 o, 1 x, and 2 h when four letters picked without replacement from ooxhxhglhzoollzhhxh.
15/323
Four letters picked without replacement from {v: 10, y: 10}. What is prob of picking 4 v?
14/323
Three letters picked without replacement from {v: 6, c: 1, n: 3, e: 3}. What is prob of picking 2 n and 1 e?
9/286
Calculate prob of picking 4 r when four letters picked without replacement from {r: 5, o: 3}.
1/14
Two letters picked without replacement from qmmmmmmqmqmqmmmqmm. What is prob of picking 2 q?
10/153
Calculate prob of picking 1 j and 1 d when two letters picked without replacement from djellllledjleldbr.
3/68
Four letters picked without replacement from rtyyrrrttttttr. What is prob of picking 1 y, 2 t, and 1 r?
30/143
Four letters picked without replacement from {a: 3, e: 3, k: 6, h: 3}. Give prob of picking 3 a and 1 e.
1/455
Three letters picked without replacement from {e: 5, j: 1, s: 1, u: 3}. What is prob of picking 1 j, 1 u, and 1 e?
1/8
Four letters picked without replacement from ddgtididdtbdtbdbbb. Give prob of picking 2 b and 2 i.
1/306
Two letters picked without replacement from yuuyjjuyyuw. What is prob of picking 2 j?
1/55
Three letters picked without replacement from {r: 6, n: 2, j: 9}. What is prob of picking 2 j and 1 n?
9/85
Four letters picked without replacement from {i: 2, b: 3, p: 2, l: 3, u: 4, g: 4}. Give prob of picking 1 l and 3 b.
1/1020
Two letters picked without replacement from axhlt. What is prob of picking 1 t and 1 l?
1/10
What is prob of picking 2 z, 1 f, and 1 t when four letters picked without replacement from {t: 1, f: 1, z: 2, c: 1, j: 1, e: 1}?
1/35
What is prob of picking 2 a when two letters picked without replacement from {g: 4, a: 5, y: 6}?
2/21
Four letters picked without replacement from {v: 2, u: 2, d: 3, p: 6, r: 1}. What is prob of picking 2 r, 1 p, and 1 u?
0
What is prob of picking 2 t and 1 f when three letters picked without replacement from {v: 1, t: 2, f: 2, n: 9}?
1/182
Three letters picked without replacement from xxxxiixwxxxijjxx. Give prob of picking 2 j and 1 w.
1/560
Three letters picked without replacement from sscsd. What is prob of picking 1 d and 2 s?
3/10
What is prob of picking 3 b when three letters picked without replacement from bsbssissibss?
1/220
What is prob of picking 1 c and 1 j when two letters picked without replacement from vcjvjfbvvjvv?
1/22
Calculate prob of picking 2 e and 2 r when four letters picked without replacement from {r: 4, e: 14}.
91/510
Calculate prob of picking 2 j and 2 t when four letters picked without replacement from ttdddjtdjjtt.
2/33
What is prob of picking 4 k when four letters picked without replacement from {v: 1, e: 3, k: 4}?
1/70
Calculate prob of picking 3 w and 1 t when four letters picked without replacement from awtwtttataaattwta.
2/595
Calculate prob of picking 1 v and 1 c when two letters picked without replacement from bbbcbvcz.
1/14
Two letters picked without replacement from gzgggzgzzggz. Give prob of picking 2 g.
7/22
Three letters picked without replacement from {k: 3, b: 15, p: 2}. Give prob of picking 1 b and 2 p.
1/76
Calculate prob of picking 2 t when two letters picked without replacement from ttlltlt.
2/7
Three letters picked without replacement from {d: 8, a: 3}. What is prob of picking 2 d and 1 a?
28/55
Calculate prob of picking 2 q when two letters picked without replacement from sqqq.
1/2
Two letters picked without replacement from qvcohhohqho. Give prob of picking 1 h and 1 q.
8/55
Calculate prob of picking 2 y and 1 v when three letters picked without replacement from {y: 3, v: 12}.
36/455
Four letters picked without replacement from {z: 9, b: 2}. Give prob of picking 4 z.
21/55
What is prob of picking 1 j and 1 u when two letters picked without replacement from {k: 1, o: 1, t: 1, u: 2, w: 1, j: 1}?
2/21
Three letters picked without replacement from pqtmppzppttmpqppp. Give prob of picking 1 z and 2 p.
9/170
Calculate prob of picking 1 u and 1 v when two letters picked without replacement from lguvuivvvul.
12/55
Three letters picked without replacement from {w: 6, o: 7}. Give prob of picking 3 o.
35/286
Two letters picked without replacement from {s: 8, h: 1, o: 3, r: 6}. Give prob of picking 2 r.
5/51
What is prob of picking 2 j and 1 h when three letters picked without replacement from jjbzh?
1/10
What is prob of picking 1 b, 1 t, and 2 c when four letters picked without replacement from ccpbttbg?
2/35
Three letters picked without replacement from xdddxx. Give prob of picking 1 d and 2 x.
9/20
Calculate prob of picking 4 z when four letters picked without replacement from uzuuuzzzzzzuz.
14/143
What is prob of picking 2 x when two letters picked without replacement from {c: 2, x: 6, s: 5}?
5/26
Four letters picked without replacement from cffcfcfcfcfcf. Give prob of picking 4 f.
7/143
Four letters picked without replacement from vrffvvrfvgfvgvgrg. Give prob of picking 3 f and 1 g.
4/595
Two letters picked without replacement from dufbbuuuu. Give prob of picking 1 d and 1 b.
1/18
Calculate prob of picking 3 e when three letters picked without replacement from eeeeeeeeee.
1
Calculate prob of picking 3 o when three letters picked without replacement from {o: 10, s: 2}.
6/11
Calculate prob of picking 1 h and 2 f when three letters picked without replacement from qffhqfhh.
9/56
What is prob of picking 2 b when two letters picked without replacement from {b: 4, f: 1, e: 5, t: 4, w: 1}?
2/35
Four letters picked without replacement from {p: 5, k: 3}. Give prob of picking 2 k and 2 p.
3/7
What is prob of picking 3 f and 1 n when four letters picked without replacement from nnffnfffnfnfn?
42/143
Two letters picked without replacement from {c: 2, d: 2}. What is prob of picking 2 d?
1/6
Calculate prob of picking 2 m and 1 n when three letters picked without replacement from {i: 7, v: 2, n: 7, m: 1, j: 1}.
0
Calculate prob of picking 2 t when two letters picked without replacement from ttttttttxx.
28/45
What is prob of picking 3 j when three letters picked without replacement from {t: 11, a: 4, j: 4}?
4/969
Three letters picked without replacement from piiiihiphihih. What is prob of picking 1 h, 1 i, and 1 p?
28/143
Two letters picked without replacement from {g: 3, l: 5, k: 8}. What is prob of picking 1 l and 1 k?
1/3
Three letters picked without replacement from {x: 2, e: 5}. Give prob of picking 1 x and 2 e.
4/7
Two letters picked without replacement from ixriijihioooi. What is prob of picking 1 o and 1 i?
3/13
Calculate prob of picking 2 c when two letters picked without replacement from ccco.
1/2
Three letters picked without replacement from zddd. What is prob of picking 2 d and 1 z?
3/4
Two letters picked without replacement from {e: 7, a: 7}. Give prob of picking 2 e.
3/13
Three letters picked without replacement from {b: 2, k: 1, w: 4, r: 1}. What is prob of picking 1 b, 1 k, and 1 r?
1/28
Two letters picked without replacement from jmjmmmm. Give prob of picking 1 m and 1 j.
10/21
Two letters picked without replacement from {h: 3, j: 2, m: 4, s: 2, c: 6}. Give prob of picking 2 j.
1/136
Two letters picked without replacement from {l: 3, i: 5, c: 1}. What is prob of picking 2 i?
5/18
Two letters picked without replacement from scicttcccgcsscucgc. Give prob of picking 2 t.
1/153
What is prob of picking 4 a when four letters picked without replacement from nnnaanaaannnaa?
5/143
What is prob of picking 3 n when three letters picked without replacement from nnnw?
1/4
What is prob of picking 1 d and 1 y when two letters picked without replacement from {d: 2, y: 4, l: 1, w: 6, k: 2, e: 4}?
8/171
Calculate prob of picking 1 o and 1 u when two letters picked without replacement from oououooouo.
7/15
Four letters picked without replacement from amtooqaomaoqtqto. Give prob of picking 1 m, 1 q, and 2 o.
3/91
Calculate prob of picking 1 d and 2 v when three letters picked without replacement from {d: 2, p: 4, v: 2}.
1/28
What is prob of picking 4 o when four |
I suspect this error can be because of user’s cookie removal. Sometimes users doesn’t provide cookies. So if you store session data in cookies you can’t get auth tokens which are saved before auth redirect. |
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Be responsible, court tells media
05 Oct 2015
Kitwe chief resident magistrate Penjani Lamba has urged the media to exercise utmost care and responsibility in their reportage of court matters. Magistrate Lamba’s caution came in the wake of a complaint by lawyers representing former Cabinet Office permanent secretary in charge of administration Annie Mwewa regarding the manner ZNBC reported proceeding of the last sitting.
When the case came up for continuation of trial, one of Mwewa’s lawyers, Noel Simwanza told the court that the defence was disappointed with subjective and opinionated reporting of the matter by the national broadcaster. “We are praying to this honourable court to caution our friends in the media on the dangers of careless and unfactual reporting of matters that happen in court and commenting on matters that are sub-judice in a manner that is unbalanced,” he said.
Magistrate Lamba said if in doubt, it is wise in the interest of justice for journalists to seek clarification from court records which are available under supervision. She said it is always important to report court proceedings in an accurate and factual manner because media reports have a bearing on public perception of court cases. |
A listener of radio may hear a song of interest and decides to buy it, but does not know the title or artist. Frequently the announcer of the radio station does not state the title, artist or other information of the song, or even if the information was announced, it was before the song played. The listener must wait until the song is heard again and hope that the title and artist are announced after the song. Even when the information of the song are announced and heard, there are situations where such information cannot easily be retained (such as when a listener is operating an automobile or simply when a listener does not have something to write on or write with).
The problem is especially true for commercials, for which the listeners usually must memorize information that are difficult to memorize, such as telephone numbers and addresses for ordering the products advertised. If listeners fail to remember these items of information, the effects of the commercials are diminished.
Similarly, a viewer of television may be scanning through different channels or stations and start watching a program that is already in progress. After a few minutes, the viewer may decide to view the show the next time it is on, because the viewer wants to see it in its entirety or the viewer may be watching something else. Therefore, the viewer must physically search through the current and subsequent TV program listings until the next showing of the program is found. This is time consuming and if several months pass, the viewer may forget the name of the show.
Despite the above described long-felt inconvenience to so many in the audience, no satisfactory solution has so far been found.
Another problem is the high cost of advertisements. An advertiser may only be able to finance a half-minute prime time commercial on television or radio. If a less expensive alternative communication channel is available for providing additional information (e.g. price quotes, store hours, details of a product, etc.) to listeners, the advertiser can then have more flexibility on how to spend the limited time and money available for media commercials. The listeners would access other information using the less expensive alternative communication channel.
The same alternative channel is also needed for newspapers and magazine advertisements which have a limited lifetime. For example, the Sunday paper real estate section typically lists homes which may only be available for viewing on that day. If a second channel of information is available, then information about the home can still be available to the readers even when the advertisement is taken off.
Despite the above identified economic benefits, a satisfactory and less expensive alternative channel of communication has yet to be found.
Prior art systems in this regard all require a station to broadcast the information in a secondary signal, concurrently with the broadcasting of the main program, and the listeners must be equipped with special decoder circuits for recovering the information. For example, the European radio broadcast systems (RDS) broadcast the identification of a program in the SCA band and require the listeners to have special receivers to decode and display this identification.
There is also a proposal to transmit identification of a television program during the vertical blanking interval (VBI) period. Unfortunately, special decoders are also needed under such method.
In a system described in patent application Ser. No. 07/806,152, filed Dec. 11, 1991 (incorporated herein by reference as though set forth in full), auxiliary information relating to a broadcast program or printed material is retrieved using a code which is broadcast or printed along with the program or print material. The code number is used for delayed recording from a television or a radio of a broadcast program containing the auxiliary information. However, this system does not retrieve information until the next day, and it requires a television and VCR for such retrieval.
Advertising rates for commercials of television programs are determined by the expected size of viewer audience for a predetermined number of television programs. These expectations are usually determined by the estimated audience sizes of previously broadcast shows. For example, for a weekly television series, the estimate of audience size for upcoming episodes is based on the estimated size of previously broadcast shows. In addition, advertising rates may be adjusted based on an "after the fact" estimation of the market share for the televised program.
The present systems for estimating market share involve survey evidence such as the Nielsen ratings. Previous market data was taken by selecting households to record their viewing habits. For example, a selected household might record in a written journal or diary when the television is turned on and turned off, what channels or stations are selected and the number of viewers in the room. This data may alternatively be collected by providing the user with an electronic device having a button that indicates turning on or off the television and the channel selected. Other systems are connected directly to the television that will monitor power on and off and the channel and time of the selected programs. The system is wired to a dedicated telephone line. When instructed, the electronics dump their memory over the phone line to a central computer for analysis. Each of these systems requires selecting individual households that represent an adequate sample of the general viewing audience and requires physically setting up the monitoring apparatus. These systems are inaccurate because the sample size is small, diary entries may be erroneous, or require viewer action.
However, despite its importance to advertisers and the media, a satisfactory method for gathering such data has yet to be found. |
---
abstract: 'Numbers of tabletop experiments have made efforts to detect large extra dimensions for the range from solar system to submillimeter system, but the direct evidence is still lacking. Here we present a scheme to test the gravitational law in 4+2 dimensions at microns by using cavity optomechanical method. We have investigated the probe spectrum for coupled quantum levitated oscillators in optical cavities. The results show that the spectral splitting can be obtained once the large extra dimensions present. Compare to the previous experiment, the sensitivity can be improved by the using of a specific geometry and a shield mirror to control and suppress the effect of the Casimir background. The weak frequency splitting can be optically read by the pump-probe scheme. Thus we can detect the gravitational deviation in the bulk based ADD model via spectroscopy without the isoelectronic technique.'
author:
- Jian Liu
- 'Ka-Di Zhu'
title: Detecting large extra dimensions with optomechanical levitated sensors
---
[^1]
INTRODUCTION
============
Why gravity is so weak compared to the other known forces in nature? This can be recast by the hierarchy problem, the seeming disparity (16 orders of magnitude) between the Planck mass and standard model electroweak scale.This problem can be overcame by adding new dimensions in the large extra dimension(bulk) model, namely the ADD model, which was first developed by Arkani-Hamed, Dimopoulos, and Dvali\[1-3\]. They proposed that for $n=2$, the extra dimensions could be as large as a millimeter and the measurements of gravity may observe the transition from $1/r^{2}$ to $1/r^{4}$ Newtonian gravitation. In addition to this possibility, they found that their model could describe the hierarchy between the Planck mass and the electroweak symmetry breaking scale in terms of the large size of the extra dimensions. Therefore testing general relativity and its Newtonian limit at short distances has become particularly important in light of recent theoretical developments\[4-13\].
On the other hand, significant advances have been witnessed in studying the characteristic and application of the cavity optomechanical system with high-Q mechanical nanoresonators(NRs)\[14\]. Nano- and micromechanical devices can be coupled to optical cavities directly via radiation pressure leading to a variety of important properties, such as optical self-focusing\[15\], optomechanical entanglement\[16\] and optomechanically induced transparency (OMIT)\[17,18\]. Recently much effort has been directed toward optically levitating nano- and micro-mechanical oscillators in ultrahigh vacuum such as nanospheres\[19,20\], nanodiamonds\[21,22\], microdisk\[23,24\], and even the living organisms\[25\]. The laser trapped objects has no physical contact to the environment, leads to ultralow mechanical damping. In the absence of other noise sources, the quality factors of optical levitated nano-optomechanics can exceed $10^{12}$ with pressures of $10^{-10}$ Torr\[19\]. Owing to its exceptional mechanical properties, optically levitation appears to be an excellent candidate for the NRs in nanoelectromechanical systems (NEMS), which are of great interest for applications in fundamental science and precision measurement\[26-28\].
In the present work, by combining the cavity optomechanics and the ADD model, we investigate the optomechanical system consisted of coupled quantum levitated oscillators and cavities. Then we propose a design for non-Newtonian gravity detection at short range with the levitated sensors. The results show that the sharp enhanced transparency peaks with ultra-narrow linewidth can be induced through the coupling between the optical cavity and the levitated resonator. The contribution of extra dimensions will be able to show itself clearly on the probe spectrum by spectral splitting, performing a test of Newton’s law at microns. We also consider the Casimir effect as the main background force noise in the micro-scale optomechanical system. The constraints on the compactification distances are deduced as last, the super-resolution can be achieved by using the oscillators with high Q factor in vacuum. We expect that the proposed scheme could be applied to probe the large extra dimensions or set a new upper limit on the hypothetical long-range interactions which naturally arise in many extensions to the standard model\[29,30\].
THEORY FRAMEWORK
================
A schematic of our setup is sketched in Fig.1(a), where a dielectric microdisk and a nanosphere are optically levitated in two optical cavities. The micro- or nano-scale objects is attracted to the anti-node of the field. The resulting gradient in the optical field provides a sufficiently deep optical potential well which allows the object to be confined in a number of possible trapping sites, with precise localization due to the optical standing wave\[25,31,32\]. We use a trapping laser to levitate the microdisk in the left cavity and use the other beam to trap the nanosphere in the right cavity. Then the left cavity is driven by a strong pump laser and probed by a weak probe laser. The mechanism can be explained as a quantum coupling induced normal mode splitting(NMS) in the four-wave mixing (FWM) process. The Fig.1(b) is the energy level description of this process. In the present paper, the trapped microdisk and nanosphere are treated as quantum-mechanical harmonic oscillators and their masses are $m_{1}$ and $%
m_{2}$, mechanical frequencies $\omega _{1}$ and $\omega _{2}$, and damping rates $\gamma _{1}$ and $\gamma _{2}$, respectively. The Hamiltonian can be regarded as $H_{\omega }=\underset{j=1,2}{\sum }\hbar \omega
_{j}a_{j}^{+}a_{j}$, where $a_{j}^{+}$ and $a_{j}$ are the bosonic creation and annihilation operators for the two vibrational resonators. We use $%
H_{c}=\hbar \omega _{c}c^{+}c$ to describe the Hamiltonian of the left cavity mode, here $\omega _{c}$ and $c(c^{+})$ denote the oscillation frequency and the annihilation (creation) operator of the cavity. The radiation pressure of the cavity gives rise to the optomechanical coupling $%
H_{g}=-\hbar g_{1}c^{+}c(a_{1}^{+}+a_{1})$, where $g_{1}$ is the single-photon coupling rate between the microdisk and the left cavity, it has the typical value of $\sim 2\pi \times 1.2Hz$\[31\].
{width="16cm"}
Then we consider the gravity interaction in the system. The ADD theory establishes an effective Planck scale to coincide with the electroweak scale by allowing gravity to travel in extra dimensions. It is possible that all of the particles and fields of the standard model are trapped on this brane, providing an explanation for why we have never observed more than our three spatial dimensions. On the other hand, gravity would be able to travel in $%
(4+n)$ dimensions, where $n$ is the number of extra dimensions. According to this model, the Planck scale is not fundamental but determined by the volume of the extra dimensions $M_{Pl}^{2}\sim M_{Pl(4+n)}^{2+n}V_{n}$. By this process in ADD, the hierarchy problem is nullified and a modification of Newtonian gravity is proposed for the ranges smaller than the compactification length. When the separation between the masses decreases to the point where $r\ll R_{\ast }$($R_{\ast }$ denotes the size of the extra dimensions), the usual inverse square law of gravity changes to a new power-law\[3\] $$V(r)=-\frac{m_{1}m_{2}}{M_{Pl(4+n)}^{n+2}}\frac{1}{r^{n+1}}.$$The separation can be regarded as $r=r_{0}+x_{1}-x_{2}$, where $x_{1,2}$ denote the displacements of mechanical oscillators from their equilibrium positions, $r_{0}$ denotes the distance between equilibrium positions of the disk and sphere. For equal-size extra dimensions and toroidal compactification, $V_{n}=(2\pi R_{\ast })^{n}$ and the size of the extra dimensions, $$R_{\ast }=10^{30/n-17}mm\times (\frac{1TeV}{m_{EW}})^{1+\frac{2}{n}}.$$Here the electroweak scale $m_{EW}$, also known as the Fermi scale, is the energy scale around $246GeV$. For $n=1,R_{\ast }\sim 10^{13}cm$ implying deviations from Newtonian gravity over solar system distances. In the case of $n=2$, $R_{\ast }\sim 1mm$, it is particularly exciting, since it is the scale currently being probed by a number of tabletop gravity experiments. In our scheme the levitated resonators held in trapping potentials are separated by a distance of $r_{0}=8\mu m$, thus the condition of $r\ll
R_{\ast }$ can be physically achieved. Expanding Eq.(1) in the condition of $%
\left\vert x_{1}\right\vert ,\left\vert x_{2}\right\vert \ll r_{0}$ and working to the lowest order, we can obtain the term of gravitational potential for 4+n dimensions as$$\begin{split}
V_{int}& \approx -G_{4+n}m_{1}m_{2}[c_{n,0}\frac{1}{r_{0}^{n+1}}-c_{n,1}%
\frac{(x_{1}-x_{2})}{r_{0}^{n+2}} \\
& +c_{n,2}\frac{(x_{1}-x_{2})^{2}}{r_{0}^{n+3}}],
\end{split}%$$where $G_{4+n}\sim M_{Pl(4+n)}^{-(2+n)}$ is the fundamental gravitational constant in the full 4+n dimensional spacetime, $C_{n,k}=(-n-1)$…$%
(-n-k)/k!$ is the binomial coefficient. The first term is constant. The second term represents a steady force does not affect the interactional dynamics. The term proportional to $x_{1}x_{2}$ represents the lowest-order coupling between the resonators’ motions. In the regime of $\omega
_{c},\omega _{j}\gg g_{j}$, the Hamiltonian of gravitational interaction can be obtained by quantizing mechanical oscillators within rotating wave approximation\[33\] $$H_{int}=C_{n,2}\frac{G_{4+n}m_{1}m_{2}}{r_{0}^{n+3}}2x_{1}x_{2}\cong \hbar
\beta (a_{1}^{+}a_{2}+a_{1}a_{2}^{+}),$$and $$\beta (n)=C_{n,2}\frac{G_{4+n}}{r_{0}^{n+3}}\frac{\sqrt{m_{1}m_{2}}}{\sqrt{%
\omega _{1}\omega _{2}}},$$The coefficient $\beta $ can be defined as the bulk induced coupling rate, which reveals the gravitational strength between two oscillators in 4+n dimensions.
For smaller separations($\ll 10^{-4}m$), Casimir forces provide the dominant background force, and we expect the scheme can set the best limits in this regime. In the original point of view, the Casimir effect is derived from the change of the total energy of vacuum due to the presence of two plane perfect reflectors. In this global approach, the Casimir energy is the part $%
H_{casmir}$ of vacuum energy depending on the plate separation $r_{0}$. For $%
r_{0}\gg r_{2}$, the Casimir energy between a sphere and plane takes the Casimir-Polder form\[34\], $H_{casmir}=3\hbar c\alpha _{V}/32\pi
^{2}\varepsilon _{0}r_{0}^{4}$. We can manipulate it with the same means and obtain the Casimir coupling rate$$\beta _{casimir}=\frac{3C_{3,2}\hbar c\alpha _{V}}{32\pi ^{2}\varepsilon
_{0}r_{0}^{6}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{m_{1}m_{2}}\sqrt{\omega _{1}\omega _{2}}},$$where $\alpha _{V}=3\epsilon _{0}V(\epsilon _{2}-1)/(\epsilon _{2}+2)$ is the electric polarizability, and $V$ is the volume of the nanosphere, $%
\epsilon _{2}$ is the dielectric constant of the nanosphere. Thereby the total interaction Hamiltonian, including Casimir interaction, can be written as $H_{int}^{\prime }=\hbar (\beta +\beta _{casimir})\cdot
(a_{1}^{+}a_{2}+a_{1}a_{2}^{+})$.
Based on the discussion above, the whole system can be considered as an optomechanical system where the microdisk’s vibrational mode is coupled to a single cavity mode with the coupling rates $g_{1}$, meanwhile interacts with the other levitated oscillator(nanosphere) through the gravitational strength $\beta $ and the Casimir coupling rate $\beta _{casimir}$. By applying the pump-probe field, we can obtain the Hamiltonian of the whole system as$$\begin{split}
H& =H_{c}+H_{\omega }+H_{g}+H_{int}^{\prime }-i\hbar \Omega _{pu}(c-c^{+}) \\
& -i\hbar \Omega _{pr}(ce^{i\delta t}-c^{+}e^{-i\delta t}).
\end{split}%$$The pump laser owns the driving amplitude $\Omega _{pu}=\sqrt{2P_{pu}\kappa
/\hbar \omega _{pu}}$ and the frequency $\omega _{pu}$. The probe beam has the driving amplitude $\Omega _{pr}=\sqrt{2P_{pr}\kappa /\hbar \omega _{pr}}$ with the frequency $\omega _{pr}$, where $P_{pu}(P_{pr})$ is the input power of the pump (probe) field and $\kappa $ is the total decay rate of the left cavity.
FORECASTS
=========
We use a silicon nitride microdisk and a silica nanosphere with density of $%
\rho _{1}=2.7$g/cm$^{3}$, $\rho _{2}=2.3$g/cm$^{3}$ and the dielectric constant $\epsilon _{1}=4$, $\epsilon _{2}=2$, respectively. The mechanical frequency $\omega _{j}$ depends on the intracavity intensity, it can be modulated by the power of trapping beam\[32\]. The cavities are driven with two trapping lasers of wavelength $\lambda =1.5\mu m$ and power $P_{1}=5.06W$ and $P_{2}=2.87W$ for a disk and sphere, respectively, corresponding to an axial trap frequency of $\omega _{1}/2\pi =\omega _{2}/2\pi =10$kHz.
The quality factor one would get for levitated resonators are solely determined by the air molecule impacts. Random collisions with residual air molecules provide the damping $\gamma _{j}=\omega _{j}Q_{j}^{-1}$ and thus, the quality factor due to the gas dissipation can be defined as $Q_{1}=\pi
\omega _{2}\rho _{1}\nu d/32p$ for the microdisk and $Q_{2}=\pi \omega
_{2}\nu \rho _{2}r_{2}/16p$ for the nanosphere\[24\]. Here $\nu =\sqrt{%
k_{B}T/m_{gas}}$ is the thermal velocity of the gas molecules, $p$ the gas pressure. Let us consider the levitated microdisk with the radius $%
r_{1}=75\mu m$, thickness $d=1\mu m$ and the levitated nanosphere with the radius $r_{2}=120nm$. We get $Q_{1}=4.3\times 10^{11}$ and $Q_{2}=8.8\times
10^{10}$ for the ultralow pressure $p=10^{-11}$mbar, at room temperature($%
T=300$K).
The coupling strength $\beta $ can be obtained from Eq.(5) by setting different $n$. In what follows, we take the pump-cavity detuning $\Delta
_{pu}=0$. Here we use the Heisenberg equation of motion to solve the Hamiltonian of levitation-cavity system. By solving the Heisenberg equation, we can obtain the transmission of the probe beam, $\left\vert t\right\vert
^{2}$, defined as the ratio of the output and input field amplitudes at the probe frequency\[35\] (see the supplementary).
Then we depict the transmission $\left\vert t\right\vert ^{2}$ of the probe beam as a function of the probe-pump detuning $\delta $ in Fig.2. At first we assume $\beta =\beta _{casimir}=0$, then we get an enhanced peak which is located at $\delta =\omega _{1}=10$kHz, just corresponds to the fundamental frequency of the levitated microdisk as shown by the black curve. Without the presence of extra dimensions$(n=0)$, we can only consider the Casimir-Polder coupling $\beta _{casimir}=2.9\times 10^{-7}Hz$ . Then we can find the resonance peak suffers a splitting in the spectrum characterized by the blue curve. By applying the extra dimensions based ADD theory, for $n=2$, $\beta =1.4\times 10^{-6}Hz$. The resonance frequency splitting can be amplified significantly in the spectrum as shown by the red curve. Here the transmitted spectrum of the probe laser can be effectively modulated by the number of extra dimensions. Without any interaction, one can obtain significant transmission of the probe laser at the resonant region. When gravity deviates from $1/r^{2}$ in 4+2 extra dimensions, considering the Casimir background force, the enhanced peak splits and separates. The linear increase of $L$ with $\beta $ reminds us of the possibility to detect the gravity strength between resonators by measuring the separation in the transmission spectrum. Their relationship can be expressed by $L=2(\beta
+\beta _{casimir})$, which strongly reveals the deviation from gravitational inverse-square law, namely, a sign indicative of large extra dimensions. The resolution depends on the full width of half maximum(FWHM) of the peak, thus the minimal detectable coupling strength $\beta _{\min }=L_{\min }/2=FWHM/2$. Considering the peak FWHM in Fig.2 approximates $2\times 10^{-7}$Hz, one can obtain $\beta _{\min }\approx 0.1\mu Hz.$
The levitated resonators with shorter separation can set better constraints since the gravitational strength rapid rise with decreasing the displacement $r_{0}$. However the system with smaller $r_{0}$ will suffer lager Casimir background force noise which goes up in proportion to the 6th power of $r_{0}
$. We depict Fig.3 to show the coupling-displacement function of the bulk and Casimir interaction. Then we depict the horizontal dash black line to show the minimal detectable coupling rate $\beta _{\min }$ which corresponds to $0.1\mu Hz$. The solid lines represent the detectable space, the dot lines represent the undetectable region. We can find that a separation of range of $8\mu m$ is a good compromise between the two limit factors(separation and noise). In this conditions, the Casimir coupling is smaller than the gravitational coupling, $\beta _{casimir}\approx \beta /5$, thus we expect the contribution of the bulk will be able to show itself clearly on the probe spectrum, performing a test with low Casimir background noise. Moreover, as shown in Fig.1(a), the middle mirror between two cavities can be used to minimize the electrostatic and Casimir background forces by preventing direct coupling between the masses. Thus the shield mirror can attenuate this Casimir interaction even further, rendering the effect negligible. This means that we can first fix the trapping frequency of the microdisk at $\omega _{1}=10kHz$, and adjust the frequency of the nanosphere approach to $\omega _{1}$ via modulating the trapping power in the right cavity. If the bulk exist, then we can obtain the vibrational mode splitting of the microdisk resonator clearly on the probe spectrum, on the contrary, the resonance peak will fix on the original frequency without the bulk. In the past few years, the new forces measurement in the Casimir regime relies on the isoelectronic technique\[5,10,13\]. This technique will induce vibration noises between the bimorph and the single-crystal silicon cantilever, the sensitivity is not able to probe forces below the level of aN\[5\]. Compare to the previous experiment, the sensitivity can be improved by the using of a specific geometry(sphere-plane interaction) to generate the Casimir-Polder potential and the shield mirror to suppress the effects of the Casimir background. Then the pump-probe technology can be used to read the weak frequency splitting. We list all the main optomechanical parameters in the Table I.
Parameter Units Value
---------------------------------------- --------- ------------ -- --
Separation distance $r0$ $\mu m$ $8$
Nanosphere radius $r_{2}$ $nm$ $120$
Microdisk radius $r_{1}$ $\mu m$ $75$
Microdisk thickness $d$ $\mu m$ $1$
Microdisk frequency $\omega _{1}$ $kHz$ $10$
Nanosphere frequency $\omega _{2}$ $kHz$ $10$
Trapping wavelength $\lambda$ $\mu m$ $1.5$
Pump driving amplitude $\Omega _{pu}$ $GHz$ $0.1$
Probe driving amplitude $\Omega _{pr}$ $MHz$ $1$
Total cavity decay $\kappa$ $GHz$ $0.1$
Air pressure $p$ $mbar$ $10^{-11}$
Room temperature $T$ $K$ $300$
Optomechanical coupling rate $g_{1}$ $Hz$ $7.5$
Pump-cavity detuning $\Delta _{c}$ $Hz$ $0$
: Optomechanical parameters of the levitated microdisk and nanosphere
The mechanism underlying these effects can be explained as four-wave mixing (FWM) in a three energy levels system. The simultaneous presence of a pump field and a probe field generates a radiation pressure force at the beat frequency, which drives the motion of the oscillator near its resonance frequency.In Fig.1(b), we let $\left\vert N\right\rangle $, $\left\vert
n_{1}\right\rangle $ and $\left\vert n_{2}\right\rangle $ denote the number states of the cavity photon, microdisk phonons, and nanosphere phonons respectively. $\left\vert N,n_{1},n_{2}\right\rangle \leftrightarrow
\left\vert N+1,n_{1},n_{2}\right\rangle $ transition changes the cavity field, $\left\vert N+1,n_{1},n_{2}\right\rangle \leftrightarrow \left\vert
N,n_{1}+1,n_{2}\right\rangle $ transition is caused by the radiation pressure coupling. In the system,the coupling between two resonators adds a fourth level which can be mainly modified by the gravitational interaction. The coupling breaks down the symmetry of the OMIT interference, the single OMIT transparency window is split into two transparency windows, which yields the quantum coupling induced NMS as shown in Fig.2.
{width="8.5cm"}
{width="8cm"}
CONSTRAINTS AND LIMITS
======================
The spectral resolution depends on the full width at half maximum(FWHM) of the oscillation peak. The result shows that smaller linewidth can be achieved by increasing the Q factor of the levitated resonators.
{width="8cm"}
Fig.4 presents the constraints on $R_{\ast }$ for the number of extra dimensions, $n=1,2,3$.The sloping lines represent the calculated coupling rate $\beta $ for different $n$ and $R_{\ast }$.Then we depict the horizontal dash black line to indicate the limits of detectable coupling strength $\beta _{\min }$. $R_{\ast }$ and $\beta $ are constrained to be larger than the values of the intersections in the picture. The solid lines in the figure represent the detectable parameter space, the dot lines represent the undetectable region. The arrow indicates that the sensitivity can be improved through optomechanical oscillators with higher Q factors. Considering the minimum measurable gravitational coupling rate $\beta _{\min
}=0.1\mu Hz$, we get the precision for the forces measurement as $F_{\min
}=2.2\times 10^{-4}aN$. The Q factor of the optically trapped particles is limited only by collisions with residual air molecules, thus the sensitivity can be improved by decreasing the air pressure. The lower pressure limit of sputter-ion pumps is in the range of $10^{-11}$mbar. Lower pressures in the range of $10^{-12}$ mbar can only be achieved when the sputter-ion pump works in a combination with other pumping methods\[36,37\]. In our considerations, a conservative value is taken $p=10^{-11}$mbar , which is usually required for achieving ultrahigh-Q mechanical oscillators and the ultrasensitive measurements in the levitated optomechanical system\[12,19,23,24,38\]. If we choose a lower air pressure ($p=10^{-12}$mbar) ,this scheme will gain a sensitivity of $F_{\min }=4.0\times 10^{-5}aN$. Our scheme yields a 4-5 orders of magnitude improvement for the force sensing in the micro-scale\[5\].
The fundamental fluctuation processes impose the ultimate limits upon the sensitivity of the detection. Frequency stability $\Delta \omega _{\min }$ is key to performance of micro-resonators and their applications in the thermomechanical noise system. For the case of the high quality factor $Q\gg
1$, the minimum detectable frequency shift limited by thermomechanical fluctuations of the levitated microdisks can be estimated via\[39\],$$\Delta \omega _{\min }\approx \sqrt{\frac{k_{B}T\omega _{1}\Delta f}{%
E_{c}Q_{1}}}.$$where, $\Delta f=1/2\pi \tau $ the measurement bandwidth which is dependent upon the measurement averaging time $\tau $. $E_{c}=m_{1}\omega
_{1}^{2}\langle x_{c}^{2}\rangle $ represents the maximum drive energy, $%
\left\langle x_{c}\right\rangle $ is the maximum root mean square(rms) level produced a predominantly linear response. For a Gaussian field distribution, the nonlinear coefficients are given by $\xi =-2/W^{2}$\[40\], here $W\approx
75\mu m$ is the trapping beam waist. For the displacements $\left\vert
x_{c}\right\vert \ll \left\vert \xi \right\vert ^{-1/2}=5\times 10^{-5}m$ the nonlinearity is negligible. In our considerations, $x_{c}$ is taken to be 2 orders of magnitude smaller, we choose $x_{c}\approx 10^{-7}m$. Considering the quality factor of the microdisk $Q_{1}=4.3\times 10^{11}$, we can obtain $\Delta \omega _{\min }=4.5\times 10^{-8}Hz<\beta _{\min }$ for the measurement bandwidth $\Delta f=10^{-3}Hz$ at the room temperature. It is corresponding to the measurement time $\tau =160s$. The result shows that the thermomechanical noise can be controlled at a level lower than the claimed sensitivity.
CONCLUSION
==========
We have analyzed the large extra dimensions induced coupling between two levitated resonators with quantum optomechanics. Our study reports a design for probing gravitational deviation in the range of 8$\mu m$ via the pump-probe optical technology in cavity. The transparency peak will suffer a distinct splitting and get apart with the non-Newtonian gravity being taken into consideration. The gravitational strength, characterized by the coupling strength $\beta $, can also be determined by the splitting distance $L$. The Casimir-Polder coupling rate is about 5-fold smaller than the gravitational strength, and can be attenuated even further by the shield mirror. It allows the precision measurement in the Casimir regime without the isoelectronic technique. We hope that the precision can be significantly enhanced by experiments in ultrahigh vacuum.
This work was supported by the National Natural Science Foundation of China (Nos.11274230 and 11574206), the Basic Research Program of the Committee of Science and Technology of Shanghai (No.14JC1491700).
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Girl allegedly gang-raped in front of her boyfriend on Goa beach
india
Updated: May 25, 2018 23:41 IST
A woman was allegedly raped by three men in front of her boyfriend on a beach in South Goa district, police said on Friday.
The incident happened at the Sernabhatim beach, 50 km from here on Thursday night.
A senior police officer said that the accused, yet to be identified, accosted the couple on the beach.
“They stripped the couple, clicked their photographs and demanded money,” he said.
Later, the three men gang-raped the woman, who is in her 20s, in front of her boyfriend, the official said.
South Goa Superintendent of Police Arvind Gawas said the woman has been sent for medical examination, and reports are awaited.
Police were questioning several suspects but no arrest has been made yet, Gawas said. |
Determination and analysis of complete nucleotide sequence of Chinese genotype D hepatitis B virus: the first report.
OBJECTIVE: To determine the complete nucleotide sequence of a Chinese hepatitis B virus (HBV) strain of genotype D. METHOD: The complete nucleotide sequence of HBV derived from a Chinese chronic asymptomatic carrier was amplified by PCR and cloned to conduct sequence analysis. Homology of the resulted nucleotide sequence with those of published HBV strains was assessed by using DNASIS, and complete sequence analysis of the phylogenetic tree of 30 genotype D HBV strains conducted by the assistance of Clustalw. RESULTS: With the complete nucleotide sequnce of 3 182 bp, this HBV strain belongs to ayw3 subtype and D genotype, with the Genebank accession number AF280817. Its complete nucleotide homology is 98.3% to 94.5% with the published sequences of genotype D HBV strains and less than 89.5% with the other HBV strains of genotype A, B, C, E, F and G published in GenBank. CONCLUSION: The evolutionary relations of the complete nucleotide sequence of this HBV strain is the closest to those of the 4 Swedish strains out of the 30 genotype D strains published in GenBank. |
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